Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1992 17:09:00 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Indexing Software ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Indexing Software Hi, folks! I'm back with my dumb little questions about software. I've been dutifully reading my Wellisch book and am ready to begin work on a sample index. Obviously, I can create the sample with almost anything, so long as it can handle some formatting requests. But I'm wondering how the different permutations of people and software work in real life. Presumably you get the page proof (typically _with_ a disk or without?), and you set about creating an index on, let's say, your computer. Do you then have to do some sort of translation from your indexing application (whether it be In-Sort, HyperIndex, or whatever) to the page-layout program the publisher has/requests? Or does the publisher typically do that? Or do they scan your index in? In other words, is an indexer really free to use whatever indexing software works (and later have it scanned), or is compatibility an issue? In other, other words, how does it all work? Thanks in advance for your patience. :o) Carol Roberts PUBS, Cornell ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1992 17:09:31 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barbara E. Cohen" Subject: Decision Making during Indexinh ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I would like to compile a list of rules of thumb that indexers follow for making compromises in their indexes when all of the desired entries cannot be accommodated. In other words, if a client cannot fit the entire index into the available space, or if there is a space constraint from the start, how do indexers decide what stays and what goes. I want to prepare this information for an article for KEY WORDS, the newsletter of the American Society of Indexers. I am looking for a discussion of the reasoning behind your choices as well as any anecdotes that you might have to share. For example, I recently had a situation in which, in order to cut about 50 lines of the index, I decided to delete subheads rather than eliminate some entries. In another situation, I might have deleted the double-entries. What have you had to do? How do you decide I am thinking that this crops up fairly regularly, from the number of questions people have asked me about it, and I don't see much discussion of this in the indexing books available (they al seem to me to read as though indexers operate in a perfect world). If you want to be specific (about authors, publishers, books) in your anecdotes, that might be helpful (to see what kinds of clients are forcing us to make these compromises). If you want to be credited in the article, be sure to tell me who you are, etc. But if you want anonymity in the article, I will gladly refrain from naming names, if you indicate your desire to remain anonymous. Barbara E. Cohen email: becohen@well.sf.ca.us voice: 217/398-1220 letters: 1708 Ridgeland Drive, Champaign, IL 61821 Thanks for your assistance. I look forward to hearing from you. Barbara ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1992 17:10:26 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barbara E. Cohen" ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Ignoring prepositions when sorting entries... Here is a new twist on the issue of ignoring prepositions when sorting entries. I recently read of a rule that indexers should ignore the preposition or prepositional phrase within the name of an organization: e.g., Association of American Publishers Association for Asian Studies This was a new one on me. Has anyone else seen this, where do you use it, and why? Is there a citation to refer to? (My source didn't cite a publication.) I would appreciate hearing more about this or knowing your opinion. I, for one, don't think it makes sense, but then again, I can't always see the sense of some other rules, so I thought someone could explain this one to me. Thanks for your comments. Barbara E. Cohen email: becohen@well.sf.ca.us ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1992 17:10:59 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "(Carolyn Kidder)" ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- About a week ago I sent out a request for some information on the indexing program available in the Interleaf 5 Desktop Publishing System, and I have not received any responses. I'm reissuing my request. Any input is welcome. Carolyn Kidder carolyn@mayberry.cray.com ----- Begin Included Message ----- >From carolyn@mayberry Thu Oct 15 07:35:28 1992 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 07:35:26 CDT From: carolyn@mayberry (Carolyn Kidder) To: INDEX-L%BINGVMB.BITNET@pucc.Princeton.EDU Subject: Interleaf 5 Cc: carolyn Content-Length: 574 X-Lines: 12 I am interested in some discussion on the indexing program available in the Interleaf 5 Desktop Publishing System. Is anyone out there currently using this? Has anyone used Interleaf to produce indexes in the past? Any input is welcome. I have noticed some format problems, such as the placement of See also references and the lack of choice for alphabetization. I am most interested in how those who use(d) Interleaf have worked the indexing process in conjunction with inserting the tokens for the "generation" of the index. Carolyn Kidder carolyn@mayberry.cray.com ----- End Included Message ----- ----- End Included Message ----- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1992 17:11:52 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Women, Work, and Sex Discri ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Women, Work, and Sex Discrimination Those of you in the Ithaca, NY, area might be interested in this upcoming event: I'll be there, too, so if any of you I've been networking with do attend this shindig, come and say howdy! Carol Roberts PUBS, Cornell ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1992 10:00:40 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: CTPLENGE@SUVM.BITNET In-Reply-To: Your MAIL dated Mon, 26 Oct 1992 17:10:26 ECT ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Hi- I'm hoping to be picking up some indexing work, and I'm curious about how people set prices. This will be newspaper, on site, with their software, and I'm a very new indexer, if all this makes a difference. I'd appreciate any information. Sindi Plenge ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1992 10:01:14 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joan Stout Subject: Re: Indexing Software In-Reply-To: <199210270049.AA26638@lamb.sas.com>; from "Carol Roberts" at Oct 26, 92 5:09 pm ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > > ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > Indexing Software > Hi, folks! I'm back with my dumb little questions about software. I've been > dutifully reading my Wellisch book and am ready to begin work on a sample > index. Obviously, I can create the sample with almost anything, so long as it > can handle some formatting requests. But I'm wondering how the different > permutations of people and software work in real life. Presumably you get the > page proof (typically _with_ a disk or without?), and you set about creating an > index on, let's say, your computer. Do you then have to do some sort of > translation from your indexing application (whether it be In-Sort, HyperIndex, > or whatever) to the page-layout program the publisher has/requests? Or does the > publisher typically do that? Or do they scan your index in? In other words, is > an indexer really free to use whatever indexing software works (and later have > it scanned), or is compatibility an issue? In other, other words, how does it > all work? Thanks in advance for your patience. :o) > > Carol Roberts > PUBS, Cornell > Hi. I am a part-time freelance indexer. (My "real job" is technical writing.) I work regularly with three publishers and occasionally with a few others. They all use the same basic format. I have never received a disk with page proofs. I receive page proofs, mark them, and then enter headings with my indexing software (CINDEX). The software alphabetizes, suppresses page numbers, formats, etc. After editing and proofreading the index, I copy it to Word Perfect and do a spellcheck. For one of my publishers, I put in typesetting codes at this point. I print the index and send a hardcopy to the publisher along with a copy on disk. I am sometimes asked to use a certain line length, but the publishers I work with typically deal with page layout. In my experience, the publisher doesn't care what software I use as long as the index looks the way they want it to. And some publishers simply say, "Follow Chicago." 8-) Joan <-------------------------------> | Joan Stout | | Technical Writer | | sasjcs@unx.sas.com | | SAS Institute, Inc. | | Cary, NC 919 677-8000 | <-------------------------------> | home: | | Joan.Stout@bbs.oit.unc.edu | <-------------------------------> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1992 10:02:08 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Databases ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Databases Does anyone know of any electronic databases for corporation names (a sort of electronic Standard & Poors), names of contemporary figures (politicians, artists, musicians, etc.-an electronic Who's Who), etc.? Does Time, Newsweek, etc., have a dynamic database online? If anyone knows of such sources, please flash me some FTP sites. Lost in the internet, Carol Roberts PUBS, Cornell ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1992 11:36:04 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joan Stout Subject: Re: Decision Making during Indexing In-Reply-To: <199210270054.AA26760@lamb.sas.com>; from "Barbara E. Cohen" at Oct 26, 92 5:09 pm ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > > ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > > I would like to compile a list of rules of thumb that indexers follow for > making compromises in their indexes when all of the desired entries cannot > be accommodated. In other words, if a client cannot fit the entire index > into the available space, or if there is a space constraint from the start, > how do indexers decide what stays and what goes. I want to prepare this > information for an article for KEY WORDS, the newsletter of the American > Society of Indexers. I am looking for a discussion of the reasoning behind > your choices as well as any anecdotes that you might have to share. > Barbara E. Cohen > email: becohen@well.sf.ca.us > voice: 217/398-1220 > letters: 1708 Ridgeland Drive, Champaign, IL 61821 > When I started indexing books, I was very concerned about this issue. This is my sixth year, and I index about 12 books per year. Only once have I been given a page limit for an index, and that limit was generous enough that it didn't cause a problem. I expected to be told that I would have a certain number of pages, and that I would have to fit the index into that space. But it just hasn't worked out that way for me. It's possible that my indexes are trimmed after they reach the publisher, but I don't really think that's happening. Joan <-------------------------------> | Joan Stout | | Technical Writer | | sasjcs@unx.sas.com | | SAS Institute, Inc. | | Cary, NC 919 677-8000 | <-------------------------------> | home: | | Joan.Stout@bbs.oit.unc.edu | <-------------------------------> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1992 11:36:34 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joan Stout Subject: Re: Prepositions In-Reply-To: <199210270054.AA26766@lamb.sas.com>; from "Barbara E. Cohen" at Oct 26, 92 5:10 pm ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > > ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > Ignoring prepositions when sorting entries... > > Here is a new twist on the issue of ignoring prepositions when sorting > entries. I recently read of a rule that indexers should ignore the > preposition or prepositional phrase within the name of an organization: > > e.g., Association of American Publishers > > Association for Asian Studies > > > This was a new one on me. Has anyone else seen this, where do you use it, > and why? Is there a citation to refer to? (My source didn't cite a > publication.) I would appreciate hearing more about this or knowing your > opinion. I, for one, don't think it makes sense, but then again, I can't > always see the sense of some other rules, so I thought someone could explain > this one to me. Thanks for your comments. > > Barbara E. Cohen > email: becohen@well.sf.ca.us > It's a new one on me, too! It makes no sense to me. If I saw it in an index, I would think it was bad indexing. Joan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1992 11:39:18 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "(Ted Koppel)" Subject: Re: Databases In-Reply-To: <9210271527.AA01322@server.carl.org>; from "Carol Roberts" at Oct 27, 92 10:02 am ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- From Carol Roberts's original message: * Databases *Does anyone know of any electronic databases for corporation names (a sort of *electronic Standard & Poors) IAC (Information Access Corp.) makes available a database called Business ProFiles, which is a name/address/SIC directory. The CARL System has it available to licensed IAC users. Does Time, Newsweek, *etc., have a dynamic database online? If anyone knows of such sources, please The CARL UnCover database is an index to 12000 journals, including Time, Newsweek, etc. It is as up to date as the yesterday's mail delivery, which makes it pretty dynamic. It, too, is a subscription/licensed database. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ted Koppel -- CARL Systems, Inc. -- ted@carl.org ----------------------- >> Systems that Inform << ----------------------- Work: 404 242 8733 Home: 404 242 8710 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1992 09:33:23 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "(Janice Woo)" Subject: ignoring prepositions ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I've seen this phenomena in some directories. Could it have to do with machine sorting with stop-word list that then turned into a procedural rule? (Having used ALA filing rules for all these years, however, I don't think ignoring the prepositions is very helpful, but rather more confusing.) Janice Woo ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1992 09:33:52 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "(Cammie Donaldson)" Subject: Re: Re: Indexing Software ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Hi - I am hoping to become an indexer--currently employed as programmer and was a tech writer in a previous life! I have a simple question and as I am new to this newsgroup, I apologize if I am repeating something you all have already addressed. I have made a big investment in Mac hardware and am a Mac devotee. Is it hopeless? Do I need to go PC? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1992 15:57:52 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "(Carolyn Kidder)" Subject: Re: ignoring prepositions ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- As a student of indexing I am still trying to keep track of all the standards, different acceptable styles, etc. The practice of ignoring the preposition (or prep. phrase) within the name of an organization makes no sense to me. There are so many organizations with similar names, and quite often the only differences in the names appear in the prepositions (or prep. phrases) used with in them, dropping the prepositions would only make things confusing for the index user. I, like Joan, would think it was bad indexing. What is a STOP-WORD list? Janice Woo indicated that this practice of dropping prepositions might have started with "machine sorting with stop-word list." Carolyn Kidder carolyn@mayberry.cray.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1992 15:58:05 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was cweaver@CARSON.U.WASHINGTON.EDU From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Re: Re: Indexing Software In-Reply-To: <9210281435.AA02891@milton.u.washington.edu> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- You don't HAVE to go PC, but it's easier! There is one inexpensive ($129), easy to learn indexing program for the MAC (IN>Sort for the MAC from Kensa Software) which will handle all the basics for straight-forward indexes, provided that you're willing to do final formatting, editing, entry of generic indexing codes, merging for cumulated indexes, etc., manually thru your word processor. I like it a lot - particularly having 4 windows (raw, sorted, and formatted, plus entry screen) open simultaneously. But it doesn't do the advanced tasks (particularly automatic addition of generic indexing codes and merging for journal index cumulations) that my major client requires; and it's also rather a pain to have to convert MAC format to DOS for the majority of my clients who want output on disk. The full-fledged DOS indexing software like CINDEX and MACREX does all that automatically, and more. So if your intent is to do an occasional book index as a sideline (or start out slow and gradually expand to more complex projects) the MAC will work fine. But if you intend to get into this strange business seriously, you will probably need to move to DOS eventually. The best of all worlds will be when CINDEX/MACREX come out with a Windows version that will allow the same type of multi-Windows display that IN>Sort currently provides. (That's a hint, if you developers are listening!). Carolyn Weaver Univ. Washington Health Sciences Library (day job) SB-55 Seattle, Wa. 98195 cweaver@u.washington.edu voice: (206) 543-3401 =========================================================================