Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1993 14:38:13 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joyce Hammock Subject: Re: article on indexing Can anyone give me information about subscription to "Editorial Eye"? I often see references to it on techwr-l and copyediting-l, but so far, have been unsuccessful finding specific info. Thanks for your help! Joyce Hammock EPUB01@toe.towson.edu OR HBJ@cu.nih.gov ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1993 09:38:41 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Edward Bedinger Subject: looking for Indexing software ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I am trying to make a keyword - searchable database out of mnay megs of abstracts (each about 300-500 chars long). I am now reeling, sev- eral hundred hours into the project, to discover that databases appar- ently are the right tool for a jon (job) like this only when the search string exactly matches the complete item in the database--in other words, since my database is composed of paragraphs treated as data items, my search string would have to be identical to the complete abstract in order for the database to retrieve it. This is not what I had in mind when I started. I think I can salvage my work to date by generating a list of key- words to append as data items attached to each paragraph item. I need a tool that will automate the keyword task, taking out all of the most common words (articles, prepositions, etc) and retaining the good stuff. I used something like this on a Xerox documenter system (it was the Documenter's "Indexing" toll tool hahahahaha) and I am pretty sure there are enough word-working hackers around that the source code for something like this is available, if not a ready-to-run application. Anyone have any leads ? It seems like such an app would need to be only a slight variation on a spell- checker ot be fairly useful for this lowly task.... Thanks a bunch, Ned Bedinger Tech Wordworker qwa@u.washington.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1993 09:59:34 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Chuck Banks Subject: Editorial Eye Info ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- For Joyce Hammock, et al: The Editorial Eye EEI 66 Canal Center Plaza, Suite 200 Alexandria, VA 22314-5507 The Circulation Manager is Paula Moore. One year subscriptions are $87 (US) $92 (Canada) $96 (Overseas). Discounted rates are available. Phone: (703) 683-0683 Fax: (703) 683-4915 Best Regards! Chuck Banks -- __ ________ ______ |\\ | || // Chuck Banks | \\ | ||_______ || Senior Technical Writer | \\ | || || NEC America, Inc. | \\| \\______ \\______ E-Mail: chuck@asl.dl.nec.com America, Incorporated CompuServe: 72520,411 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1993 16:40:38 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: H.R.vanderLaan@RC.TUDelft.NL Subject: Re: looking for Indexing software In-Reply-To: <01H547WPOX7M00067E@TUDRNV.TUDELFT.NL> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > I am trying to make a keyword - searchable database out of mnay megs > of abstracts (each about 300-500 chars long). I am now reeling, sev- > eral hundred hours into the project, to discover that databases appar- > ently are the right tool for a jon (job) like this only when the > search string exactly matches the complete item in the database--in > other words, since my database is composed of paragraphs treated > as data items, my search string would have to be identical to the > complete abstract in order for the database to retrieve it. This > is not what I had in mind when I started. Maybe you did not choose the right database system for this job? Take a look at askSam, that does all you want without going through all this trouble of extracting keywords. It does a full-text search extremely fast. I suppose you can export all your work from your database in ASCII form, so askSam can import it. Good luck! Hans van der Laan (H.R.vanderLaan@RC.TUDelft.NL) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1993 15:41:24 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Chuck Banks Subject: Re: looking for Indexing software ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Hans, I am also involved in converting a long text file into a searchable database. Could you provide some specifics about the askSam database system? Such as, who is the publisher of askSam? Thank you for the tip! Best Regards! Chuck Banks -- __ ________ ______ |\\ | || // Chuck Banks | \\ | ||_______ || Senior Technical Writer | \\ | || || NEC America, Inc. | \\| \\______ \\______ E-Mail: chuck@asl.dl.nec.com America, Incorporated CompuServe: 72520,411 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1993 15:42:10 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Edward Bedinger Subject: Re: looking for Indexing software ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Hans-- Thanks for the tip. My database is Access 1.1, and may not be the best choice for the job. I have been duming the docs to ASCII format and trying to get what I want from spreadshheets, word processors, etc, so I reckon I could get to a format that askSAM can handle. Is this a commercial package or shareware? qwa@u.washington.w edu qwa@u.washington.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1993 15:42:41 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Edward Bedinger Subject: indexing software ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Regarding my recent request for a software "keyword" generator, I need to correct myself (and I hope I didn't mislead anyone who might be planning to try a similar indexing project). The claim that database software can't find a keyword in a larger field of text is wrong. I was coming up with no hits because I was using search strings the way I would with an online index, and my database was behaving according to its literal nature, looking for occur- ances of my keyword only where the keyword was found as the first word in the field of text. Now that I understand the search strategy I can come up with all occurances very nicely. Hooray! Thanks to Greg and everyone else who informed me. Still, I am soliciting info about public domain or demo versions of software aids for online indexing. This might include, for exmple, software that reports back a list of all words used in the document, along with the number of occurances and the page numbers. DOS or UNIX, please. I will summarize any info I get and post it with a review. Ned Bedinger qwa@u.washington.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1993 09:13:14 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.7f)" Subject: INDEX-L: error report from GODZILLA.LIB.PDX.EDU [Re: askSam from: Bill Abrams] Chuck -- I am not familiar with askSam, but I did notice a review of this free-form information manager/text search program in:Library Software Review, vol. 11, no. 5 (Sept./Oct. 1992) that concluded: "The extreme flexibility of searching techniques that one can use, the ability to import any type of ASCII data, the ability to link visual files (in GIF format) to a file, the ability to create custom output formatting, and above all, the capability to customize and program all screens and tasks, from inputting to deleting to exiting, make askSam an indispensable tool for any library." It seems to have a high learning curve, however. Version 5.1, DOS 2.0+ is around $400. Available from Seaside Software, PO Box 1428, Perry FL 32347 (800-800- 1997).Bill Abrams Internet: abrams@godzilla.lib.pdx.edu Portland State Univ. Libr. VOICE (503) 725-4574 FAX (503) 725-5799 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1993 09:18:48 ECT Reply-To: Roberta Engleman Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Engleman Subject: Language manuals ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Several months ago there was a discussion of foreign language manuals for indexers. So far as I know no one mentioned this one, probably because it's been out of print for a long time: Allen, Charles Geoffrey. A Manual of European Languages for Librarians. New York and London, R. R. Bowker in Association with the London School of Economics, 1975. This is a very useful work for indexers. It gives rules for capitalization, suggestions for choice of entry element for proper names, common bibliographic terms, and so on. I am trying to find a copy for my own library. Can anyone help me locate a copy? Roberta Engleman ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1993 14:22:25 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "[CKatie Izat" <100265.2771@CompuServe.COM> Subject: HELP NEEDED FOR ESTIMATING INDEXING WORK ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I am a long-suffering librarian and a keen novice of indexing. I have recently been asked to estimate how long it might take to index a technical procedures manual of approx. 900 pages ie. 450 duplex pages. I would appreciate advice on how to go about calculating the manhours. Do you know of any articles etc, which might offer guidance on this subject or is it a question of trial and error? I am reasonably conversant with the terminology in the document so at least that's something! Looking forward to any replies Katie ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1993 14:23:11 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kay O." Subject: Policies ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- How does one find out a publisher's abstracting and indexing policies? I am specifically interested in Historical Abstracts and Psychological Abstracts. Who would I contact at the company to find this out? All I have ever gotten is a recorded message and no calls returned. Thanks for any help you can give me. Kay Olberding | University of Alabama lolberd3@ua1vm.ua.edu | SLIS ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1993 14:24:10 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: STEVEJZOO@delphi.com Subject: AskSam ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- S AskSam is now available in a Windows version, as well as the well regarded DOS version. Tiger Software of Florida is currently selling bto oth versions of AskSam for 99.00 + shipping. The price was low enough that I bought the Windows versions , and I am not even a Windows fan. This is the first Window s applications I have purchased.. (I hope it runs well under OS/2.) Steve Johnson Stevejzoo@delphi.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1993 14:24:45 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: H.R.vanderLaan@RC.TUDelft.NL Subject: askSam In-Reply-To: <01H56ZMRSDSY000HTD@TUDRNV.TUDELFT.NL> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Chuck, Edward, Bill, > > Chuck -- I am not familiar with askSam, but I did notice a review of > this free-form information manager/text search program in:Library > Software Review, vol. 11, no. 5 (Sept./Oct. 1992) that concluded: > "The extreme flexibility of searching techniques that one can use, > the ability to import any type of ASCII data, the ability to link > visual files (in GIF format) to a file, the ability to create custom > output formatting, and above all, the capability to customize and > program all screens and tasks, from inputting to deleting to exiting, > make askSam an indispensable tool for any library." It seems to have > a high learning curve, however. Version 5.1, DOS 2.0+ is around $400. > Available from Seaside Software, PO Box 1428, Perry FL 32347 (800-800- > 1997).Bill Abrams Seaside Software is now askSam Systems. A high learning curve indeed, but that goes for the programming language of (the DOS version of) askSam. The power of askSam without programming already is great, most certainly for the purpose wich started this discussion. But recently the Windows version came into light, and now most things are pretty easy to do. The real freaks say that programming the most difficult things is now even more difficult, but others say that most of the things an avanced user would do are very easy to do with no programming at all, in the windows version. E. G. Sieverts et al. published an article titled: "Software for information storage and retrieval tested, evaluated and compared - Part VI - Various additional programs", which appeared in _The Electronic Library_, 11 (2), April 1993, p 73-91. In this paper, various software (37) are tested, including WordCruncher, ZyIndex, PC-Index, AskSam, IdeaList, CDS-ISIS. A commercial program, indeed. The askSam Systems address is: Post Office Box 1428, 119 South Washington St. Perry Florida 32347. askSam Systems phone: 904-584-6590 Technical support (9 AM - 6 PM EST) 800-800-1997 Sales and Marketing 904-584-6590 Main Office 904-584-8287 (24 hours a day) Bulletin Board 904-584-5413 (24 hours a day) Bulletin Board (alternate) 904-584-7481 FAX There is a list ASKSAM-L . A year ago Steve Hayes sent to this list an article that much better than I can give an impression of this database system. I include it here. Hope this helps. Hans van der Laan (H.R.vanderLaan@RC.TUDelft.NL) ----------- Cut here ------------------------------------------- From: Steve Hayes ASKSAM AS A GENEALOGICAL RESEARCH TOOL by Stephen Hayes One of the problems with genealogical research is that the notes we make do not easily fit into the neat formats of most of the software available. Our sources vary tremendously - printed books, interviews, casual conversations, memories (our own and other people's), letters, diaries, certificates, tombstones, photographs and many more. Lineage- linked genealogy programs can help us to order the information we have on people we know are related, but before we reach that stage we need to sort, sift and evaluate the data we have. We need to transcribe the tape recorded interviews, compare the entries from the IGI or the church register we have examined with what we already have, and make the connections. Any word processing program can store free-form text, and it would be quite possible to record most kinds of notes in a word processor. The only problem is finding it again, and arranging it in order. Database programs can search, sort and index data very easily, but the data need to be structured to start with. There are some hybrid programs that can do both, and one of the best of these is askSam. AskSam has been around for many years, and yet only seems to be known by a small group of enthusiastic users. It is advertised as a "free form information management environment". It could also be described as a cross between a word processor and a database. What makes askSam ideal for genealogical research is its instant search and retrieval. You can type in any text, and find it again instantly. You can type in the transcript of a diary. You can have a lot of structured tran- scripts from census records, where every piece of information is stored in structured fields. A search for "Matilda Parsons" will come up with every instance in which her name appears, even if it is recorded in one place as "Parsons, Matilda" and in another as "Matilda B. Parsons". I myself have barely scratched the surface of askSam's capabilities, and this article shows only a few of the ways in which it can help in genealogical research. AskSam has three modes of operation - record, document and free. In record mode, the information is divided into separate records, each of which can be up to 20 screen lines long (1600 characters). In document mode, records are linked to form a "document", which may consist of any number of records linked together. Free mode is like document mode, in that records are linked together, but the boundaries between the records are flexible and user-transparent, so free mode is very similar to a word-processing document. You can have both records and documents in the same file, and data you entered as a record can be expanded into a document at any time. A single askSam file can be as big as your biggest disk. The theoretical limit to the size of an askSam data file is 4 gigabytes. There are also three kinds of fields: explicit, implied and con- textual. An explicit field is defined by square brackets, in which the field name ends with [. The end of the field is specified with a ], which is optional if there are no other fields on the same line. Name[ ] Birthdate[ ] RIN[ ] Explicit fields can be created simply by typing the characters on the page. They do not have to be defined beforehand, and can be of any length. The closing right bracket marks the end of an explicit field, though if it is not present, the end of the line will be taken as the end of the field. Explicit fields can be up to 20 lines long (as long as a record). Implied fields are the first character in an expression. For example in "$300.00" the "$" is an implied field name. A date, in any of several recognized formats, can also function as an implied field for sorting. Contextual fields are words or groups of words either before or after data. In the phrase "Name John Smith" the word "name" is a contextual field name. These fields may appear anywhere in a record, and need not appear in the same order from one record to another. They can come before, after or in the middle of freeform text. Fields may be entered in a record or document at any stage. You can type up a lot of freeform text and add explicit fields later. In addition, explicit fields and explana- tory text can be set up in a screen form to be used for data entry for regular data, such as is found in church registers or census records. These are similar to the screen forms used in most database programs, and in data entry you use the tab key to move from field to field. Such a form is set up simply by typing text on the screen and saving the screen as a "template", which is mapped to one of the function keys. So I have sent up one template for addresses, another for tran- scriptions from baptism registers, from the IGI, from deceased estate records in the South African archives and so on. Records may be searched by queries, which can also be strung together in stored programs and executed. The programs can be used to produce formatted printed reports with headers. This description only gives a very sketchy idea of the power and flexibility of askSam. Now let us see how it can be used for genealogical research. Using askSam Here are some of the ways you could use askSam for genealogy. Research notes If you have a laptop computer that you take to libraries and other places for your research, askSam is the ideal software. Information can be entered as it is found in the sources, and can then be compared and evaluated when you get home. If you don't have a laptop, you can transcribe your handwritten notes when you get home, and add any other annotations you might want to make. All your previous notes can be in the same file, so you can compare them, and make a note of things to look up in future searches. If, for example, I visit one of the LDS Family History Centres, and look at old church baptism records on microfilm, I would use the template shown in Figure 1. In addition to the information found in the register itself, I have made fields for recording the microfilm number and the Rid (Record identity or RIN) used in my lineage-linked genealogy programs. At the beginning of the baptism entry template is a field called "Baptism" with an asterisk in it. This means that when I want to produce reports, I can select only baptism records to report on by including "Baptism[*" in the search argument. But it would also be possible to produce reports from many different kinds of records, as long as the main fields in the report are present in each record. When producing reports, the records can be sorted on any number of fields - by name and then by date, for example. By selecting a partic- ular RID, I could print a report to be used to update the records of that person in my lineage linked program, or to send to other people with enquiries. Even when using a preset template for data entry, it is easy to add freeform notes and remarks. These can be printed in their entirety, or parts can be printed selectively, by using contextual fields. In addi- tion to keeping the data entered in one's research in a retrievable form, entering data in askSam makes it possible to keep track of one's research. By sorting on the microfilm field, for example, it is easy to see which sources have already been searched, and what is in them. Correspondence tracker I often get letters from people who are researching families of the same name who may or may not be connected. If I see no immediate con- nection, I file the letter and promise to write back if I find any- thing more. Sometimes I do find something more - often years later. Then what? Who was it who wrote? Where did I file the original letter? AskSam makes such things easy to keep track of. When a letter is received, I enter the name and address of the sender and the family they are researching in explicit fields so that they can be sorted. At the end of the explicit fields comes a heading "Notes", which functions as an implied field. Below that I enter some details of the family they are researching, when the letter was received, where I filed the letter and the family tree that came with it, and so on. If the letter needs a reply, but I don't have time to reply immedi- ately, I type "WR" followed by the date, and then notes of action to take, like "send a pedigree chart of Martha Ellwood", followed by a ]. The "WR" (for "write back") functions as a contextual field. An askSam stored program (modified from a sample program that came on the dis- tribution disk) will sort all the replies needed in date order, and print out everything from the date to the ], followed by the name of the researcher and the family being researched. I can choose whether to print a hard copy of the list, or display it on the screen, or send it to a disk file. The data entry template for such a record in askSam is shown in Figure 2, and one way of displaying the information in a printed report is shown in Figure 3. After replying to the letter, I can edit the record to say what I have done. I can therefore have a complete record of my correspondence, or I can delete all but the most recent information. I can also print out different reports from the same data, sorted by the name of the researcher or the families they are searching for. I can select the notes about people who are researching a particular family. If someone writes to me about a particular family, and I don't have any informa- tion on that branch, I could say: "I don't have any information about that branch of the family, but maybe some of the following people, who have written to me in the past, can help you....", and send the printed sorted list of everyone else who has written about that family. An enhanced Research Data Filer? The Personal Ancestral File lineage-linked program has a little-used utility called the Research Data Filer, where source information can be indexed and retrieved. It is a good place to store information about people you are not sure about. I always liked the idea of the Research Data Filer - it seemed to offer a way of indexing all the photocopies and odd notes that accumulate when one does family history research for more than a few months. The paper files are still needed, of course, but the documents can be numbered and filed in numerical order, while the computer enables one to index both the documents and the information they contain. The problem with the Research Data Filer, however, was that once the information was typed in, there was no way of getting it out other than by retyping it, or printing it out on paper - and it offered only one not very attractive printing format. I recently tried an experiment that could change all this - a shareware program by John Barron, called RDF2GED, which exports data from RDF in several forms - as GEDCOM files, as comma-delimited Ascii, or as xBase-style .DBF files. Importing these into askSam proved to be no problem at all. Indeed, askSam can do everything that RDF does, and a whole lot more besides. A sample imported record is shown in Figure 4. By keeping such information in askSam one is no longer limited by the fixed fields of RDF. Notes and comments can be expanded to fill several lines, or indeed a whole document, if necessary. The RDF docu- mentation points out the problem of a source document where the name of a person is spelt differently from the way it is normally found in one's files, and recommends that the original spelling be put in brackets after the "standardized" form of the name. For askSam, this is less of a problem, and there are many ways of solving it. One could add an extra Alias field, or mention the original spelling in the notes field, or even put in a second name field to include variant spellings of the name. The commonly-used relational database programs would only allow this with some difficulty. An Alias field would have to appear in every record, so taking up extra disk space even when it wasn't needed, or would have to be put in a separate database table (file), which would immediately make the structure of the database far more rigid. AskSam makes it easy. If you had been keeping some data in the Research Data Filer, and some in another database program, such as PC File, it would thus be pos- sible to import it all into askSam, for instant reference. Other possibilities What I have described so far are experiments I have personally tried with askSam, so I know that they work. There are many other pos- sibilities. I am sure it would be possible to write an askSam program to import some or all of the information from a GEDCOM file, for exam- ple. One could easily import a GEDCOM file straight into askSam and use it for searching, and changing the GEDCOM tags into askSam fields could be a simple search and replace operation. There are also utilities that can convert data from lineage-linked programs into other formats, which could then be imported into an askSam file. If you have a laptop computer with enough disk space, you would then be able to have information about all the people in your lineage-linked program available for reference and comparison with what you find in libraries and archives. In a cemetery, you could check whether the information on a tombstone matched anyone already in your records, and make a note of possible matches then and there. For a serious genealogical researcher, askSam is second in importance only to a lineage-linked genealogy program. For the beginner it could also be very useful. While it is immediately useful to all users, some of the more sophisticated features can be quite difficult to use without examples. Though the program comes with two bound manuals of over 400 pages each and extensive help files, it is so different from most other programs that the manuals are not all that easy to follow. AskSam is produced by askSam Systems, P.O. Box 1428, Perry, Florida 32347. Version 5.0 costs $395.00, and version 4.2 costs $295.00. There are special discounts available for people working in certain fields, such as education. Stephen Hayes is convener of the computer interest group of the Genealogical Society of South Africa, and moderator of the Interna- tional Genealogy Conference on Fidonet Electronic addresses for Stephen Hayes Fidonet: Steve Hayes of 5:7101/20 Internet: Steve.Hayes@f20.n7101.z5.fidonet.org ILLUSTRATIONS ---------- Figure 1 - AskSam template for transcribing baptism registers BAPTISMS[*] Entered[ 08 JAN 92 ] Parish[ Scotland, Ayr, Newton ] FilmNo[ 1041406 ] Sname[ McCartney ] Fnames[ Mary Lambie ] Rid[ ] Name[ Mary Lambie McCartney ] Father[ David McCartney ] Occupation[ Collier ] Mother[ Christian Campbell ] Abode[ ] Born[ 14 FEB 1826 ] Baptized[ 6 MAR 1826 ] Sponsor1[ ] Sponsor2[ ] Sponsor3[ ] Notes ---------- Figure 2 - Address template in askSam Address[*] Updated[ 26 DEC 91 ] Related[ U ] Rid[ ] Sname[ King ] Fnames[ P.J. ] Name[ Mrs P.J. King Address1[ Speedwell Cottage Address2[ 5 New Road Address3[ Woodstock, Oxford Postcode[ OX7 1NZ ] Country[ England Family[ Stooke ] Family[ ] Ref[ Undated letter received 1991 ] Notes WR 26 DEC 91 Researching a Stooke family in N. Wiltshire beginning 1880. There is also one of unknown origin in Oxford she hopes to pursue.] ---------- Figure 3 - Part of a formatted printed report produced from the template in Fig. 3 01-13-92 LIST OF PEOPLE WE OWE LETTERS TO PAGE 2 DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD 26 DEC 91 Researching a Stooke family in N. Wiltshire beginning 1880. There is also one of unknown origin in Oxford she hopes to pursue. Mrs P.J. King Stooke DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD ---------- Figure 4 - An askSam record for importing information from the Research Data Filer Research Data Filer RDF[*] Updated[ 17 August 1991 ] Document Number DOCNUM[ DOC 00572 ] Page[ ] Name[ Nobbs, Barbara ] Sex[F] Rid[ 6291 ] Event[ Death ] Date[ 10 April 1904 ] Place[ Clifton Relations: Relname[ Hayes, Sander ] Relation[ grandfather ] Rid[ 201 ] Relname[ Hayes, Barbara ] Relation[ grandmother ] Rid[ 1013] Relname[ Hayes, Walter Henry ] Relation[ uncle ] Rid[ 2776] Relname[ ] Relation[ ] Rid[ ] Comments Churchyeard of St James the Great, Winscombe, Somerset. Tombstone inscription reads, "In memory of Barbara Nobbs, who died at Clifton April 10th 1904 aged 30, granddaughter of the above Sander Hayes, niece of the above Walter Hayes." == end == Stephen Hayes P.O. Box 7648 Pretoria 0001 South Africa all rights reserved Copyright (c) 1992 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1993 14:17:56 ECT