========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 09:38:13 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a)" Subject: INDEX-L: error report from LAWLIB.LAW.PACE.EDU From: "Nick Triffin" Subject: Re: Hello! Is anybody out there familiar with full text in Anyone using Lexis and Westlaw can tell you about full text indexing and it's not all that it is cracked up to be. Take a look at Dan Dabney's "Curse of Thamus" in Law Library Journal some years ago and all the articles spawned by it or quoting it in some way. Talk to a law librarian. There is still a market for real indexes. Another name for a full text index is "concordance." Take a look at a concordance some time and you'll see, they do leave something to be desired. ================================================== Internet: NTRIFFIN@LAWLIB.LAW.PACE.EDU :-) ;-) Nick Triffin Tel: (914) 422-4275 |-) Pace Law Library Fax: (914) 422-4139 ;-) 78 North Broadway %-) White Plains, NY 10603 ;-) ================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 09:40:42 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Judith Weigel Subject: Re: Hello! Is anybody out there familiar with full text indexing? In-Reply-To: <199409292029.AA19076@bierce.latimes.com> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- =09We index the major stories of the LA Times every day, that's 200=20 to 500 stories daily. =09Why index?=20 1. speed of retrieval 2. the vagaries of the english language =09Does it work? Sort of, we are in the process of training the newsroom, starting from=20 the electronic ground up. As the newsroom become sophisticated searchers=20 (!) and realize the pitfalls of full text retreival, they are discovering= =20 the wonders of indexing. =09Human indexing is but another retrieval tool. It can be used=20 well or ill. Consistency isnt important either. Altho indexers are=20 consistent between indexers only 50% of the time, searchers pick similar=20 terms only 20% of the time! =09Recommended reading (if you dont have it already) Carol Tenopir,=20 and Jung Soon Ro, Full Text Databases. Greenwood Press, 1990. =09Contact me directly if you have other questions. This is an art=20 not a science, and what makes sense is not always clear. I would love to=20 hear about what you discover. =09I speak only for myself. =FBJudy Weigel, Database Construction, Editorial Library ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 09:41:23 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Wren Subject: Another Desperate Student ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- More lib-sci questions-- (perhaps we should rename this list? 8-) ) 1. Any suggestions on where to obtain statistics about the percentage of software generated indexes versus human generated; how prevalent are those software packages? 2. I need journal articles about abstracting; are there journals with abstracting as the primary or secondary topic? Thanks in advance for your time and expertise!! pam g_wren@venus.twu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 09:43:28 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: spin-l Subject: Internet Index on SilverPlatter Web Server Here's an interesting approach to gaining control of the internet... Charlotte ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Reply-To: spin-l@silverplatter.com Sender: spin-l@silverplatter.com From: Subject: Internet Index on SilverPlatter Web Server X-Comment: SilverPlatter Information, Inc. The Internet Index is a project that began several months ago when we began to train staff on using the Internet. We observed that people were frustrated because they couldn't locate information on the Internet unless they knew where it was located, and the address. The Internet Index is a Web page that indexes information alphabetically and by subject, with links that give immediate access to the information. The Internet Index is different from any of the existing Internet search utilities (like archie or the World Wide Web Worm) since it provides immediate access to the source, whether the source resides on a Web server, gopher, or ftp server. The Internet Index has two components; an alphabetical index (arranged by title), and a subject index. For example, if you look under C in the alphabetical index, you would see an entry for the Charter of the United Nations. If you click on that link, the text of the Charter appears on your screen. (Under U in the alphabetical index, there is an entry for the United Nations as the author of this document). In the subject index, the Charter of the United Nations is listed under Historic Documents. Authors are listed in the Internet Index, but links to documents are from titles in the Index. Access to the Internet Index is free. SilverPlatter considers this to be a way to enhance access to information. We want people who use the Internet, including librarians, to contribute sources to the Internet Index. We hope that the Internet Index will become a tool, created by and for Internet users, that enables anyone to easily locate information. There is an entry for the Internet Index on SilverPlatter's Home Page on our Web server. The URL is: http://www.silverplatter.com Instructions for submitting entries for the Internet Index are included on the Internet Index Home Page. Comments or suggestions about the Internet Index can be sent to: Gerry Hurley Librarian, Director of Educational Services Internet: gerryh@silverplatter.com ***************************************************************** SilverPlatter Information, Inc. SilverPlatter Information, Ltd. 100 River Ridge Drive 10 Barley Mow Passage Norwood, MA 02062 Chiswick, London W4 4PH Phone: 800-343-0064 (US/Canada) Phone: 0800-262-096 (UK) 617-769-2599 +44-81-995-8242 Fax: 617-769-8763 Fax: +44-81-995-5159 Internet: info@silverplatter.com or support@silverplatter.com ***************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 09:48:38 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DWIGHT WALKER Organization: OzEmail Pty Ltd Subject: Re: Hello! Is anybody out there familiar with full text indexing? ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Hi. I did a small amount of full text retrieval at the University of New South Wales, Sydney. We covered inverted indexing, stop words etc. Most of the Uni packages were mainframe ones like STAIRS. There are a number of microcomputer packages. I know of ISYS and INMAGIC. There are several others. My indexing lecturer's point was that there will be pieces of text which refer to a subject but do not actually use the word in the piece e.g. a golf report with no use of the word 'golf'. The packages can be used to sort out the dross. Much of manual indexing is repetitive data entry. A computer 'tool' to produce terms such as in a thesaurus would be really useful. The indexer could then sieve through the terms and build up a good word pool which can be used in creating a well-integrated index. Many UNSW students see CDROM full text retrieval of say bibliographic databases as a way to avoid consulting the librarian. On the other hand I have heard of people who complain of the low hit rate such untrained searching provides. Masses of data can provide a large amount of noise. Cheers Dwight Walker Sydney, Australia Reply to message text: From: Steve Cloyd ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I am a grad student at UW Madison considering doing a project on full text indexing and need to know if there is anybody out there who's done something similar. (Something along the lines of, if full text retrieval is possible, why bother indexing at all?) I'm not even sure if this question is narrow-scoped enough. There must be some software pkgs. out there that do full-text indexing but I've never used one. Please respond. Thanks in advance. secloyd@students.wisc.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 10:22:38 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Ned Bedinger (qwa@u.washington.edu)" Subject: Re: Hello! Is anybody out there familiar with full text indexing? In-Reply-To: <9409292025.AA28383@hardy.u.washington.edu> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Steve-- I've been developing a package for Windows that does full text indexing. If you (and a handful of other restless indexers volunteers) would like to participate in a software testing cycle, I will make a copy available to you. Let me know quickly, as my ftp access is about to expire, at least temporarily. Regards. Ned Bedinger qwa@u.washington.edu ____________________________________________________________________________ The management of their horses is truly surprising. . . . they will mount and proceed with speed without aid of spur or anything but a small switch. ___________________________________ -Charles Wilkes _______________________ _____________diaries from The U.S. Exploring Expedition (1838-1842)_________ On Thu, 29 Sep 1994, Steve Cloyd wrote: > ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > I am a grad student at UW Madison considering doing a project on full text > indexing and need to know if there is anybody out there who's done something > similar. (Something along the lines of, if full text retrieval is possible, > why bother indexing at all?) I'm not even sure if this question is > narrow-scoped enough. There must be some software pkgs. out there that do > full-text indexing but I've never used one. Please respond. Thanks in > advance. secloyd@students.wisc.edu > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 10:24:05 ECT Reply-To: Ray Schwartz Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ray Schwartz Subject: SIG/Classification Research program for the ASIS Annual Meeting ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- SIG / CLASSIFICATION RESEARCH PROGRAM FOR ASIS '94 Alexandria, VA SUNDAY, OCT. 16 9am - 5pm 5th ASIS SIG/CR CLASSIFICATION RESEARCH WORKSHOP: QUESTIONS, CONTROVERSIES AND CONCLUSIONS IN CLASSIFICATION RESEARCH. The CR Workshop is designed to be an exchange of ideas among active researchers with interests in the creation, development, management, representation, display, comparison, compatibility, theory, and application of classification schemes. Emphasis will be on semantic classification, in contrast to statistically based schemes. **(Note: lunch is not included)** 6:30 - 8:30pm WELCOME RECEPTION & SIG RUSH TUESDAY, OCT. 18 8:30am - Noon DESIGNING, TESTING, DOCUMENTING NEW INTERFACES AND FUTURE DEVELOPMENTS, SIG/CR and SIG/HCI Designing New Interfaces for Information Retrieval * Making LC Accessible: Interface Design Consideration. Maryel Ashley * Window-Based Interfaces for Information Retrieval Systems. Philip J. Smith, Daina Pupons, Rebecca Denning, and John Monk * The Feasibility of a Browsable Interface for Online Catalogues. Jamshid Beheshti, McGill University Testing and Maintaining New Interfaces * Testing the Graphical User Interface. Peter Scannell, IBM * Interface Maintenance Schedules and Costs. Gary Marchionini, University of Maryland Documentation: Design, Cost and Evaluation * Multimedia-Based Online Documentation. Janette B. Bradley, Intelligent Information Group * The High Cost of Going Global: Translating Software Interfaces and Documentation. Janette B. Bradley, Intelligent Information Group and Barbara Merwald * Evaluating the Quality of End User Documentation. Ronald Morrison, Future of Interface Design, Ben Shneiderman, University of Maryland Moderators: Linda Schamber, University of North Texas and Ingrid Hsieh-Yee, Catholic University Noon - 1:15pm SIG/CR PLANNING MEETING 2:30pm - 4:30pm INFORMATION SCIENCE AND TERMINOLOGY SCIENCE: INTERCONNECTIONS FOR INCREASED RESEARCH EFFICIENCY, SIG/CR * Facetted Classification in Terminology: A Knowledge Engineering Approach. Lynne Bowker, Centre for Computational Linguistics * Information Science and Terminology: The Thesaurus Connection. Michele Hudon, Indexing and Thesaurus Building Moderator: Clare Begthol, University of Toronto WEDNESDAY, OCT. 19 10:00am - Noon TOWARD A MODERN PHILOSOPHY OF CLASSIFICATION, SIG/CR and SIG/FIS * Historical Paradigm in the Philosophy of Classification. Ingetraut Dahlberg, International Society for Knowledge Organization * A Clarification of Some Prerequisites for a Modern Philosophy of Classification. Hanne Albrechtsen, The Royal School of Librarianship The Dewey Decimal Classification as Technobureaucratic Discourse. Bernd Frohmann, University of Western Ontario * Cognition and Classification: A Cross-disciplinary Approach to a Philosophy of Classification. Elin K. Jacob, Wayne State University Reactor: Birger Hjoerland, The Royal School of Librarianship Moderator: Patrick Wilson, University of California, Berkeley 1:00pm - 2:30pm PREDICTING THE SUCCESS OF KNOWLEDGE-INTENSIVE INFORMATION SYSTEMS: METHODOLOGIC ISSUES IN TESTING AND EVALUATION, SIG/CR and SIG/SRT * Testing Knowledge-Based Systems: An Overview. Jacob W. Ulvila, Decision Science Associates * The Evaluation of Expert Systems in Information Service Applications. F. W. Lancaster and Shiao-Feng Su, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, Jacob W. Ulvila, Decision Science Associates, Inc., Saul Herner, Herner and Company, Susanne M. Humphrey, National Library of Medicine * Naturalistic Methods for Qualitative Evaluation of Information Systems. Paul Solomon, University of North Carolina Moderator: Susanne M. Humphrey, Lister Hill Center ** Conference program will have locations and final times.** ** Check registration packet and announcements in registration area for last-minute changes ** Call ASIS Headquarters for further info. 301-495-0900. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 14:12:47 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J. PETER THAYER, SUNY ALBANY" Subject: creation of indexes/thesauri ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I was wondering if people on the listserv could possibly answer a question for me. How does one justify the creation of a(n) index for a particular periodical or group of periodicals of similar subject matter? I am thinking of doing something along these lines for my graduate seminar project next semester. Any responses will be appreciated. Thank you. J. Peter Thayer SUNY Albany, School of Information Science and Policy Albany, NY jt4935@albnyvms.bitnet ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 15:56:03 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Contr Karl E. Vogel" Organization: Control Data Systems Inc. Subject: Re: creation of indexes/thesauri ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >> On Thu, 6 Oct 1994 14:12:47 ECT, >> "J. PETER THAYER" said: J> How does one justify the creation of a(n) index for a particular J> periodical or group of periodicals of similar subject matter? I'd turn the question around. If you expect people to use your periodical (or group of same), and it's more than a few dozen pages long, how do you justify the OMISSION of an index? -- Karl Vogel vogelke@c-17igp.wpafb.af.mil Control Data Systems, Inc. ASC/YCOA, Wright-Patterson AFB, OH 45433 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 15:56:23 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DWIGHT WALKER Subject: Re: creation of indexes/thesauri ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- It usually has to be a 'serious' publication rather than a 'trade' publication which majors on advertising new products. It needs to have about 50 pages per edition to have enough meat to index. Select something you have some background. I did an astronomy one, as my background was in science. The process of thinking is more than important than your actual prowess in the subject. In my Graduate Diploma at Uni of New South Wales I indexed to volumes of 'Southern Astronomy'. That was plenty to produce appropriate headings plus verification and data entry. It took me about 50 hours. Finally you need someone to actually use it. There is no point indexing some arcane document. One person I heard indexed a genealogists' magazine which was later used by that society. It gives for more incentive when the work becomes tedious. All the best Dwight (33 yr old) Reply to message text: ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I was wondering if people on the listserv could possibly answer a question for me. How does one justify the creation of a(n) index for a particular periodical or group of periodicals of similar subject matter? I am thinking of doing something along these lines for my graduate seminar project next semester. Any responses will be appreciated. Thank you. J. Peter Thayer SUNY Albany, School of Information Science and Policy Albany, NY jt4935@albnyvms.bitnet ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 16:00:23 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michele Berkes 615-576-2352 Subject: ETC Technical Publications and Art Competition ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- The East Tennessee Chapter of the Society for Technical Communication is gearing up for the 1994-95 Technical Publications and Arts Competition. The brochures containing information and entry forms will be in the mail soon. They will be distributed to members of the East Tennessee Chapter and to the Middle Tennessee Chapter. For more information, please contact: JENNIFER CAMPBELL (Technical Publications Competition Manager) jcampbel@utkvx.utk.edu or Karla McMaster mcmaster@cti_pet.com 615-966-7539 Robert Fox (Technical Art Competition Manager) 615-856-0309 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 16:00:42 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michele Berkes 615-576-2352 Subject: e-mail address error ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I just noticed a typo in the e-mail addresses of the ETC Technical Publications and Art Competition message I forwarded. Karla McMaster's *correct* e-mail address is mcmaster@cti-pet.com ^ hyphen, not an underscore My apologies, Michele Berkes berkesm@a1.osti.gov ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 16:00:59 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@aol.com Subject: why an index ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- J. Peter -- You asked how to justify creation of an index. I look at it from a very practical standpoint in today's world of information and information glut. So much information is out there, in so many forms, that if you cannot find it, it might as well not exist. It has no usefulness if it can't be found and used. In other words, the information in the periodicals or related periodicals is greatly enhanced in terms of its utility, and therefore its value, if an index is made up and the information is available to professionals in the field. Given the great amount of information in any profession and the time constraints that modern professionals work under, the index is a way of speeding information retrieval, of providing them with the intellectual tools, the information, data, that they need to do the creative thinking they need to do. It's hard to put the concept into words. Basically, it is that the index is vitally important, because data retrieval, information accessibility, is vitally important. Much more so than the mere existence of the information or data. By the way, I'm a free-lance indexer, with many years of experience in technical publishing, and one who was brought up in a post-WW II world but who is now deeply enmeshed in the world of information retrieval through indexing. Janet Perlman jperlman@aol.com.