========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 11:37:37 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Organization: ElectriCiti, San Diego, CA, USA Subject: Re: Pedantic entries ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- As much as I am commited to an author's "vision" and perhaps more, I index for the potential readers. I would have 2 entries in the index: 1 for Thumb and 1 for Stratton. pam rider san diego, CA prider@electriciti.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 11:39:19 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DWIGHT WALKER Subject: Re: Pedantic entries ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I would put two references, one to Stratton and the other to Thumb. Next to each I would put their synonyms in parentheses. That way either reader can find their person. Don't put the 'correct' one if no-one knows who it is. It's like cataloguing a person's pseudonym without an access point to their real name and vice versa. There's no telling the audience's viewpoint!! Cheers (very apt pun I must say) Dwight Walker dwalker@ozemail.com.au Reply to message text: ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I have a question about the level of expertise I impose on an index entry re: the level of expertise of the readers of a book. The specific question has to do with an entry for "Tom Thumb" which appeared in an index I just completed. Given the rest of the entries and the topics covered in the book, I felt it was a bit pedantic to insist on indexing "Tom Thumb" as "Stratton, Charles Sherwood" (even with Tom Thumb in parenthees), when the average reader of this particular book (about American popular culture) would be better served to list him under "Thumb, Tom" (with Stratton maybe parenthetically, if I need to be precise). ... Barbara E. Cohen becohen@well.sf.ca.us ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 11:39:52 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: Pedantic entries In-Reply-To: <199408311919.AA08308@metronet.com> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- On Wed, 31 Aug 1994, Barbara E. Cohen wrote: > ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > > I have a question about the level of expertise I impose on an index entry > re: the level of expertise of the readers of a book. The specific question > has to do with an entry for "Tom Thumb" which appeared in an index I just > completed. Given the rest of the entries and the topics covered in the > book, I felt it was a bit pedantic to insist on indexing "Tom Thumb" as > "Stratton, Charles Sherwood" (even with Tom Thumb in parenthees), when the > average reader of this particular book (about American popular culture) > would be better served to list him under "Thumb, Tom" (with Stratton maybe > parenthetically, if I need to be precise). > > I'm just wondering how other feel about this sort of thing. I mean, I know > what the rule is (I'm tempted to call it a "rule of thumb" here, but it has > been a long day and I won't give in to temptation), but I felt obliged in > the interest of the readers to break the rule in this particular index. > > Any comments about this? > > Barbara E. Cohen > becohen@well.sf.ca.us Couple of thoughts: If this were a biography *of* Tom Thumb, I'd put all the entries under "Stratton"; if he's simply mentioned in a book about Barnum or whatever, you could put the entries under his real name or stage name, it probably wouldn't matter -- as long as you cross-ref from the other name. (I've run into this several times on subjects like Sam Clemens/Mark Twain and it always requires a little negotiation with the editor and the author.) However (to be picky), by cataloging rules, which are generally pretty close to indexing usage, "Tom Thumb" should be under "Tom" since it's a made up name, the same way "Robin Hood" goes under the R's, not the H's. I doubt very much that anyone ever referred to him, except jocularly, as "Mr. Thumb" or "Gen. Thumb." Mike Michael K. Smith mksmith@metronet.com +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ It doesn't TAKE all kinds, we just HAVE all kinds ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 11:40:26 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michele Berkes 615-576-2352 Subject: Fall Conference --PCOC 18 ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Please see announcement below. For more information, contact Mike Morrison, PCOC 18 Conference Manager (E-mail and snail mail addresses at the end of the announcement). Or, if you'd prefer, you may send mail to me and I'll forward it to Mike. Michele Berkes Facilities Manager, PCOC 18 East Tennessee Chapter Society for Technical Communication berkesm@a1.osti.gov ************* ELECTRONIC AND TRADITIONAL MEDIA HIGHLIGHTED AT EIGHTEENTH ANNUAL PCOC CONFERENCE The eighteenth annual Practical Conference on Communication (PCOC) will be held on November 3 and 4 at the Garden Plaza Hotel and Pollard Auditorium in Oak Ridge, Tennessee. The conference is organized and sponsored by the East Tennessee Chapter of the Society for Technical Communication. Many aspects of technical writing, editing, and information management will be discussed by communications specialists from throughout the country. Two keynote speakers will discuss how both traditional and electronic media affect technical communication. William Horton, an award-winning private consultant based in Boulder, Colorado, will present an address entitled: "O Brave New Media: How to Avoid Becoming Roadkill on the Information Superhighway." Another keynote address will be given by Barry Hudson, Staff Analyst for Westinghouse Savannah River, on "Enterprise Multimedia." Two days of workshops and panel discussions will accompany the keynote addresses. Topics of these workshops and panels will include "Graphic Design for Writers," "How Medical Writers can Communicate More Effectively," "How To Use the WWW To Distribute Scientific and Technical Information," and "The Virtues and Vulnerabilities of SGML." For additional PCOC program and registration information, contact Mike Morrison Manager, PCOC 18 East Tennessee Chapter Society for Technical Communication P.O. Box 5556 Oak Ridge, TN 37831 (615) 483-6195 mmorrisn@utkvx.utk.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 16:22:37 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: GIBurn@aol.com Subject: Index Databases ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- We have pulled our indexes into a database package in recent years and have noticed that the requirements of an electronic index that is keyword searchable are not the same as for a print index. The multiple entry points necessary in print are just "noise" in an electronic version leading the users to think they have retrieved more information than is actually the case. My co-workers and I wonder if there is anybody out there with experience in this kind of indexing. We are indexing printed publications (magazines and books) and feeding it into our database for a unified index to everything for our research staffs. (We try to edit the multiple entry points from our back of book indexes which are still printed, but our magazine indexing just goes straight into our database.) We would like to gain/share knowledge about this kind of indexing form anyone that has thoughts about it. George Burneston GIBurn@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 16:22:52 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nancy Etheridge Subject: Re: Indexicon In-Reply-To: <199408292156.AA12130@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Ahh, the wonders of modern technology... My office has a copy of Indexicon, but we can't use because it requires 6 Megabytes of RAM and the most we have on a PC is 4. I'm still going to complete the indexing course I just signed up for. A little perspective might be useful in this discussion. Indexicon is an "add-on" for WordPerfect for Windows 6.0. Even if it generates an usable index, how many serious publishers do their final typesetting in WP 6.0 for Windows? Well, ok, my office uses WP 5.1 to produce camera-ready copy, but it is a very small specialized publisher (about 100 titles, limited to legal practice manuals for Florida law) and it doesn't hire outside indexers. The literature with Indexicon appears to be geared for "in-house" types of documents, such as personnel manuals, and reports for both internal and external use, perhaps theses, dissertations, and legal briefs, that would easier to use if they included an index. How many of those get sent out for professional indexing? The document to be indexed must be loaded into WordPerfect for indexing. If the work being indexed consists of more than one file (like separate chapters of a book), ALL of the files must be loaded at once in one master (monster) document or each file processed separately and the resulting indexes (indices?) combined manually. Neither process is totally impractical, but both can introduce errors. Say, for example, all chapters are supposed to start on an odd numbered page. Each chapter is a separate file and pages are numbered in the format ch#-pg#. Because they are separate files, none of the chapter contains the appropriate code to reset the page number to 1. When the files are combined, WP will renumber the pages consequtively. No one is likely to notice until the totally useless index is generated. Not a major problem, (unless no one notices until after the book is printed), but it would be a major annoyance to reformat the files and regenerate the index. Granted, if it works in WordPerfect a standalone version can be created, too. But I think it is just another tool for production and not likely to eliminate professional indexing and indexers. After all, spell-checkers and grammer programs haven't eliminated proofreaders! Nancy Etheridge ethern@freenet.tlh.fl.us So many books, so little time! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 16:42:59 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "LINDER, ELLIOTT" Subject: Re: Index Databases ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- If you are producing electronic indexes for researchers, I would suggest postcoordinate indexing, i.e., indexing single or multiword terms that represent individual concepts and letting the concepts be coordinated on the search side. Have you considered developing a thesaurus to bring some order and consistency to the indexing? You might also read Lancaster's "Indexing and Abstracting in Theory and Practice," among others. Elliott Linder (703) 416-5624 or (301) 621-0285 NASA STI Program elinder@sti.nasa.gov (previously Indexing Manager at the American Petroleum Institute) \ ======\-----------\__ ======/-----------/ / ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Index Databases Author: "Indexer's Discussion Group" at CCMGATE Date: 9/2/94 16:24 ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- We have pulled our indexes into a database package in recent years and have noticed that the requirements of an electronic index that is keyword searchable are not the same as for a print index. The multiple entry points necessary in print are just "noise" in an electronic version leading the users to think they have retrieved more information than is actually the case. My co-workers and I wonder if there is anybody out there with experience in this kind of indexing. We are indexing printed publications (magazines and books) and feeding it into our database for a unified index to everything for our research staffs. (We try to edit the multiple entry points from our back of book indexes which are still printed, but our magazine indexing just goes straight into our database.) We would like to gain/share knowledge about this kind of indexing form anyone that has thoughts about it. George Burneston GIBurn@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 16:43:12 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lisa J Guedea Subject: Recent publication on indexing ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- This is just an FYI message about a book I just purchased for my library, _The New York Public Library Writer's Guide to Style and Usage_ (HarperCollins 1994), that has a chapter on indexing which may be of interest. I'm pretty sure this chapter was written by a professional indexer and, upon a quick scan of selected sections, I would say it presents a good introduction to back-of-the-book indexing for publishers and authors. For instance, the difference between a concordance-type (computer-generated) "index" and a professionally-prepared index is explained early on. Likewise, a succinct sidebar explains the differences in how dedicated indexing software and indexing features of many word processing and desktop publishing programs approach index creation (a topic of some discussion on this list recently). The sidebar includes the pros and cons of both, with heavy emphasis on the drawbacks of trying to use an embedded indexing module for complex or large indexes.) A section entitled "Who should prepare the index?" will please many professional indexers. And one of my favorite tidbits is this quote: "The traditional elements of the unattainable triad in publishing are time, cost, and quality. In indexing the triad is time, cost, and detail. There is no point at all in doing an index of less than top quality." (pp. 646) The whole chapter is about 50 pages and covers the standard terminology, guidelines and choices involved in index creation and design, from what to index to methods of alphabetization to typography considerations. All-in-all, it is very pro-index and seems to be written by someone who knows what they are talking about. I'm impressed, and I wanted to share that with this group, should any of you be in a position to recommend good texts on indexing to authors, publishers or new indexers. (I realize there are other good resources on indexing out there too, and this chapter references at least one of them.) Lisa Guedea Corporate Librarian W5527 Highway 106 P.O. Box 800 (and catalog indexer) Fort Atkinson, WI 53538-0800 Highsmith, Inc. 414-563-9571 phone LGuedea@world.std.com 414-563-7395 fax ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 16:44:56 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.A. Lawrence" Subject: indexing satire ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Dear Charlotte I am new to both Internet and indexing so please excuse any blunders. What joy to find a group with an interest in indexing. A little personal background - I am a Librarian, English MA(Hons), use MACREX indexing software. I am trying to index an old New Zealand serial. The problem is most of the articles/poems cartoons/illustrations are satirical. To make sense the index must refer to actual historical events which are only implied in the text. I have decided the most appropriate style is that of the Times(London) which allows a brief summary but I feel the sand shifting beneath my feet with the language. I would also be pleased to communicate with other MACREX users. There is no course available in New Zealand for indexers. However I do belong to the Australian Society of Indexers as they are the nearest. Thanks in anticipation Judy Lawrence ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 16:45:52 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: David Lewis Subject: CFP: SDAIR '95 ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Call for Papers Fourth Annual Symposium on Document Analysis and Information Retrieval (SDAIR '95) April 24-26, 1995 Desert Inn Hotel, Las Vegas, Nevada Conference Chair: Donna Harman National Institute of Standards and Technology SCOPE The purpose of this symposium is to present the results of current research and to stimulate the exchange of ideas in the general field of Document Understanding. Papers on all aspects of document analysis and information retrieval are solicited, with particular emphasis on: Document Analysis Multilingual OCR Language identification Multilingual character sets Domain specific dictionaries / lexicons Logical structure recognition Recognition of tables and equations Recognition of maps and mechanical drawings Information Retrieval Full-text retrieval Retrieval from structured documents Text categorization Evaluation of IR systems Image and multimedia retrieval Language-specific influences on retrieval Text representation The two themes to be highlighted at this year's symposium are the intersection of document analysis and information retrieval, and the ramifications of multilingual data in both fields. SUBMISSIONS Please send seven copies of complete papers, with authors name, address, telephone number, fax number and e-mail address to the appropriate Program Chair: Larry Spitz, Chair (Doc. Analysis) or David D. Lewis, Chair (Info. Ret.) c/o Information Science Research Institute University of Nevada, Las Vegas 4505 Maryland Parkway Box 454021 Las Vegas, NV 89154-4021 The papers should be no longer than 20 double-spaced pages or 5,000 words. Papers which have already appeared in journals or published conference proceedings should not be submitted. Both camera ready and machine readable copies of the accepted papers will be required. The proceedings will be available at the conference. CONFERENCE TIMETABLE Papers Due October 1, 1994 Notification To Authors December 1, 1994 Camera Ready Copy February 1, 1995 PROGRAM COMMITTEE Document Analysis ----------------- Larry SPITZ, Fuji Xerox (chair) Henry BAIRD, AT&T Bell Labs Andreas DENGEL, DFKI Hiromichi FUJISAWA, Hitachi Jonathon HULL, SUNY Buffalo Junichi KANAI, UNLV Juergen SCHUERMANN, Daimler Benz Suzanne TAYLOR, Unisys Karl TOMBRE, INRIA Information Retrieval --------------------- David LEWIS, AT&T Bell Labs (chair) Christopher BUCKLEY, Cornell Kenneth CHURCH, AT&T Bell Labs Robert KORFHAGE, U. Pittsburgh Fausto RABITTI, CNR-IEI Kazem TAGHVA, UNLV TOKUNAGA Takenobu, Tokyo Inst. Tech. Howard TURTLE, West Publishing Peter WILLETT, U. Sheffield Ross WILKINSON, RMIT ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 16:46:45 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jessica Milstead <76440.2356@compuserve.com> Subject: Terminology ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Is anyone on this list either aware of specialized terminology (acquisition / standardization) work that's underway, or of a listserv for this area? I'm not particularly concerned about thesaurus development, but rather about terminological efforts. My primary concern is the field of engineering. Please reply either to the list or to me directly. Jessica Milstead The JELEM Company P.O. Box 5063 Brookfield, CT 06804 76440.2356@compuserve.com Voice: (203) 740-2433 Fax: (203) 740-1152 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 09:15:53 ECT Reply-To: LWill@willpowr.demon.co.uk Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Leonard Will Subject: Re: Terminology ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Jessica Milstead asked: > > Is anyone on this list either aware of specialized terminology (acquisition / > standardization) work that's underway, or of a listserv for this area? > The following might be of interest: "Directory of thesauri for object names = Inventaire des the'sauri ou vocabulaires controle's des objets / CIDOC (Comite' International pour la Documentation, Conseil International des Muse'es = International Documentation Committee, International Council of Museums). Text: Toni Petersen. Published and distributed for CIDOC by Art and Architecture Thesaurus (AAT), 62 Stratton Road, Williamstown, MA 01267, USA. 1994. 58 pages." Tel: +1 413 458 2151, Fax: +1 413 458 3757, Email: tpetersen@aat.getty.edu This publication results from work of CIDOC working groups on terminology and data for museum object records, and lists 43 vocabularies which were developed for, or are being used for, indexing collections of objects. Many of them are not really "thesauri" in the narrow sense of that term, as they do not conform to standards for thesaurus construction such as ISO 2788, but they should be useful as sources of terms which can be used when creating a more structured system. I don't know of a listserv on general issues of indexing terminology other than AAT-L (AAT-L@uicvm.uic.edu), which is specific to that product though it has some discussion of general matters of principle. I would have thought that INDEX-L was quite appropriate for discussing this, especially as the indexing of electronic resources becomes increasingly in demand in addition to "back-of-book" indexes. Leonard Will (Treasurer, CIDOC) -- Dr Leonard D Will Tel: +44 81 366 7386 Information Management Consultant Fax: +44 81 366 0916 27 Calshot Way, ENFIELD, Middlesex Email: LWill@willpowr.demon.co.uk EN2 7BQ, United Kingdom QUIT