----------------------------Original message---------------------------- A glimpse of the future, folks. How are we going to be in it? In PC Magazine of Sept. 13, 1994, page 48, there is a brief look at 'Indexicon for WordPerfect for Windows 6.0, Ver. 1.0' The title of the piece by David Haskins is "Indexicon Indexes Documents Quickly". It adds a button to WP for Windows' toolbar as well as to the menu options. "Creating an index of a loaded document is quick and easy ..." "Tell Indexicon how detailed you want your index to be. Indexicon can create indexes with as many as six levels of detail." "The program generates an index by using its 55,000-word dictionary and extensive set of rules for determining parts of speech and key concepts to analyze each sentence and determine the most important words and phrases. Indexicon's speed is impressive, PARTICULARLY WHEN COMPARED WITH PROFESSIONAL INDEXERS, WHO TYPICALLY INDEX BETWEEN THREE AND SIX PAGES PER HOUR [emphasis added]." The result "does require polishing. For example, Indexicon created an entry for 'feeder' with a subentry for 'sheet' when 'sheet feeder' should have been a subentry under scanner. Also Indexicon indexed only half the references to the word 'microcomputer' in the test document. This is a subjective call even for professional indexers, and Indexicon was usually but not always correct." The vendor, Iconovex, is also issuing a version for Word for Windows. Stephen Bach sbach@well.sf.ca.us ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Aug 1994 09:33:41 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Daveream@aol.com Subject: Re: locators for tables ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- First off I am not an indexer, but I deal with indexers and indexes quite a bit doing programming and consulting. Your example of "20-23, *22*" is pretty much the way to go as far as I've seen. The references are sorted by the first page number if there is a range. Instead of italics, represented by the "**" above, you could do it thus "20-23, 22t". It is also common to use a "t" for table or "i" for illustration. You might also check with the publisher/editor. Some prefer tables or illustrations first and text references second, some the reverse: "20-23, 20m" versus "20m, 20-23". For instance in an atlas you probably want the maps cited first. Dave ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Aug 1994 09:34:04 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Vincent Maes Subject: Health Economics/Pharmacoeconomics thesaurus ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- This message has been posted to several lists. Please forgive duplication. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear Colleagues, Starting information collecting for the database of the Belgian Institute for Health Economics, I've problems with indexing. Is there anybody aware of a thesaurus (preferably in english, either in french) in Health Economics or Pharmacoeconomics ? Thanks in advance, *************************************************************************** * Vincent Maes * * Pfizer S.A. and Belgian Institute for Health Economics * * 102, rue Leon Theodor * * B-1090 Brussels * * Belgium * * Tel : +32 2 423.07.12 * * Fax : +32 2 423.07.99 * * E-mail : maesv@Belgium.EU.net * *************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Aug 1994 15:53:48 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Re: Indexicon In-Reply-To: <199408231326.AA18971@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu>; from "Stephen E. Bach" at Aug 23, 94 9:33 am ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In the office in which I used to work, we had a copy of Indexicon. It had been sent to us gratis. Unfortunately, no one could use it, because our computers weren't powerful enough. I wish I'd had a chance to take a look at it. I admit to being skeptical about Indexicon--as I admit to being equally skeptical about spell checkers and grammar programs. Yes, I use my WordPerfect spell checker, but it still misses a lot of things. And I think that Indexicon is going to miss a lot, too. Its results, as Stephen quoted, "need polishing." There's a lot that Indexicon missed. And what happens when you're indexing a concept that appears on the page but is never named? An example: I was indexing the letters of Mari Sandoz, a Nebraska author. In many letters, she gave advice to fledgling authors, encouraged people to write about their interesting lives, and critiqued samples of new authors' work. She was, in effect, being a mentor to these people. Yet, nowhere in her letters did the term "mentor" appear. Still, I had an entry in my index for Sandoz, Mari as mentor What would Indexicon have done with this? Speed isn't everything, and I think that discriminating publishers and readers know that. How many times have I heard people complain that there was this terrific book they wanted to buy, but that the index looked so terrible, that they put the book back on the shelf? How many complaints have you heard about cookbook indexes? How many of you have wretched documentation for DOS (I can't find ANYTHING in my enormous DOS manual; the index is sketchy and unhelpful) or for some type of computer software? One publisher here in town (Tallahassee, Florida) had been using some type of fully automated indexing software. But users of the publisher's materials complained so much (as did the head of the indexing department), that changes had to be made. Now the publisher is using "normal" indexing software. The users are happier, and the indexers are happier. I don't think that Indexicon will be putting us out of business any time soon--especially when the publisher realizes that "the result does need polishing." Sure, you can save time with Indexicon, but you'll have to have humans polish away, and there goes all the time you've supposedly "saved." I'd love to hear what others think about Indexicon. -- Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@freenet.tlh.fl.us) "No passion in the world is equal to the passion to alter someone else's draft."--H. G. Wells ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Aug 1994 15:54:20 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Re: Indexicon In-Reply-To: <9408231334.AA10975@carson.u.washington.edu> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Sounds to me like there's a nice paper/research project in this: doing parallel indexes on the same document using Indexicon (done by a professional and a non-professional independently) and a professional using traditional methods; then let a non-indexer evaluate all three indexes. My suspicion is that Indexicon won't be a lot faster than the traditional indexing methods IF the final output is edited to an acceptable level! Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, Wa. e-mail: cweaver@u.washington.edu voice: 206/930-4348 On Tue, 23 Aug 1994, Stephen E. Bach wrote: > ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > > > A glimpse of the future, folks. How are we going to be in it? > > > In PC Magazine of Sept. 13, 1994, page 48, there is a brief look at > 'Indexicon for WordPerfect for Windows 6.0, Ver. 1.0' > > The title of the piece by David Haskins is "Indexicon Indexes > Documents Quickly". > > It adds a button to WP for Windows' toolbar as well as to the menu > options. > > "Creating an index of a loaded document is quick and easy ..." > "Tell Indexicon how detailed you want your index to be. Indexicon > can create indexes with as many as six levels of detail." > > "The program generates an index by using its 55,000-word dictionary > and extensive set of rules for determining parts of speech and key > concepts to analyze each sentence and determine the most important > words and phrases. Indexicon's speed is impressive, PARTICULARLY > WHEN COMPARED WITH PROFESSIONAL INDEXERS, WHO TYPICALLY INDEX > BETWEEN THREE AND SIX PAGES PER HOUR [emphasis added]." > > The result "does require polishing. For example, Indexicon created > an entry for 'feeder' with a subentry for 'sheet' when 'sheet > feeder' should have been a subentry under scanner. Also Indexicon > indexed only half the references to the word 'microcomputer' in the > test document. This is a subjective call even for professional > indexers, and Indexicon was usually but not always correct." > > > The vendor, Iconovex, is also issuing a version for Word for > Windows. > > > Stephen Bach > sbach@well.sf.ca.us > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Aug 1994 15:54:50 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Contr Karl E. Vogel" Organization: Control Data Systems Inc. Subject: Re: Indexicon ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >> On Tue, 23 Aug 1994 09:33:28 ECT, >> "Stephen E. Bach" said: S> A glimpse of the future, folks. How are we going to be in it? S> Indexicon's speed is impressive, PARTICULARLY WHEN COMPARED WITH S> PROFESSIONAL INDEXERS, WHO TYPICALLY INDEX BETWEEN THREE AND SIX PAGES S> PER HOUR [emphasis added]." Does anyone remember a program called "The Last One", written around 1981? It was a database report generator which would accept English-like commands and write a BASIC program to do your report. The owners took out a full-page ad in some computer rag, announcing "the last program you will ever have to buy". That's an exact quote. When someone announces an indexer that can pass the Turing Test, THEN you should worry. -- Karl Vogel vogelke@c-17igp.wpafb.af.mil Control Data Systems, Inc. ASC/YCOA, Wright-Patterson AFB, OH 45433 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Aug 1994 16:24:04 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jessica Milstead <76440.2356@compuserve.com> Subject: Indexicon ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Interested people might find it worthwhile to try out Indexicon before they start worrying about being replaced . Though I'll admit the publicity is a bit scary. Jessica Milstead ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Aug 1994 16:25:52 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Nancy C. Mulvany" Subject: Indexicon ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Jessica Milstead and I have been reviewing Indexicon. We are hoping to have the review completed in time for the next ASI newsletter. One aspect we will cover is a comparison of index entries for the same text created by human indexers and by Indexicon. I second Karl Vogel's comment, "When someone announces an indexer that can pass the Turing Test, THEN you should worry." I'm not worried ... -nancy Nancy Mulvany ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Aug 1994 09:11:28 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: David T Terry Subject: Continuing Education Seminars - Texas ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- (This message is being cross-posted to several lists, please excuse any duplicate announcements.) Continuing Education Seminars, Updated August 24, 1994 Sponsored by The University of Texas at Austin, Graduate School of Library and Information Science. 7 seminars 1) Austin, Texas, Saturday, October 8, 1994 -- one-day seminar, "Native American Culture: Selecting, Evaluating, and Promoting Sources for Children and Youth," will be held at The University of Texas at Austin, Joe C. Thompson Conference Center. Fee is $45 ($38 group rate). The speakers are Colleen Hall, reference librarian at the San Marcos Public Library, Dr. Loriene Roy, associate professor and minority liaison officer at the Graduate School of Library and Information Science, The University of Texas at Austin, and an enrolled member of the Minnesota Chippewa Tribe Pembina Band, White Earth Reservation, and Victor Schill, children's librarian at Harris County Public Library. This one-day seminar will provide an overview of available resources on Native Culture written or prepared for young audiences. The workshop will help you develop strategies to select and evaluate appropriate resources. In addition, the speakers will share ideas and demonstrate techniques for introducing material on Native American cultures. 2) Austin, Texas, Friday, October 21, 1994 -- one-day seminar, "Toward the Electronic Library--Using Available Technology to Improve Service and Productivity," will be held at The University of Texas at Austin, Joe C. Thompson Conference Center. Fee is $50 ($45 group rate). The speaker is Susan Ardis, head of The University of Texas at Austin McKinney Engineering Library and the Balcones Library Service Center. Participants will get an overview of available tools and technologies. Topics will include: "What exactly is an electronic library?" "What hardware and software is needed and will be needed?" "Evaluating technology for suitability," "Selecting relevant technologies," "Integrating new technology," and "Technology convergence and other issues." 3) Austin, Texas, Friday, October 28, 1994 -- repeat of the sell-out one-day seminar, "A Global Library, Not a Toy: Reference and Information Services on the Internet," will be held at The University of Texas at Austin, Joe C. Thompson Conference Center. New lower fee is $65 ($60 group rate). The speaker is Mary Lynn Rice-Lively, librarian at The University of Texas at Austin General Libraries, and instructor at the UT-Austin Graduate School of Library and Information Science. No hands-on training will be available. The workshop will explore providing traditional reference services on and from the Internet. *Some knowledge of the use of basic Internet tools is recommended.* The workshop will be particularly useful to those with an interest in integrating use of the Internet into reference and information services. 4) Austin, Texas, Friday, November 18, 1994 -- one-day seminar, "Putting It All Together: Archival Enterprise for the Small Archives from the Ground Up," will be held at The University of Texas at Austin, Joe C. Thompson Conference Center. Fee is $50 ($45 group rate). The speaker is David B. Gracy II, professor and associate dean at the Graduate School of Library and Information Science, The University of Texas at Austin. 5) Austin, Texas, February 1995 -- two-day seminar, "Library and Information Leadership Institute 1995--Leadership: The Challenge for Special Librarians." Fee is $195. Speakers: Dean Brooke E. Sheldon (UT-Austin, GSLIS) and others. 6) Austin, Texas, Friday, March 3, 1995 -- one-day seminar, "Sci/Tech Collection Development: Meshing Traditional Sources with Electronic Access," will be held at The University of Texas at Austin, Joe C. Thompson Conference Center. Fee is $50 ($45 group rate). Speaker is Susan Ardis, head of The University of Texas at Austin McKinney Engineering Library and the Balcones Library Service Center. 7) Austin, Texas, Friday, April 21, 1995 -- repeat of the sell-out one-day seminar, "A Global Library, Not a Toy: Reference and Information Services on the Internet," will be held at The University of Texas at Austin, Joe C. Thompson Conference Center. Fee is $65 ($60 group rate). The speaker is Mary Lynn Rice-Lively, librarian at The University of Texas at Austin General Libraries and instructor at the UT-Austin Graduate School of Library and Information Science. See October 28, 1994 item above for further details. Group rate applies for 3 or more participants from the same organization or association who register as a group (send registrations together). For more information, or to register, call David Terry at (512) 471-8806; email: gldt@utxdp.dp.utexas.edu; fax: (512) 471-3971. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Aug 1994 09:12:27 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: WATKIAPJ@alpha.unisa.ac.za Subject: Indexing of musical instruments ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Dear colleagues We have a collection of ethnic musical instruments and are in the process of creating an indexing database for them. I would appreciate any input from Index-L members who have previously dealt with the indexing of musical instruments. Please reply directly to me. Thank you Ansie Watkins Head: Indexing Department of Library Services University of South Africa Email: watkiapj@alpha.unisa.ac.za ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Aug 1994 09:12:43 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rosemary Simpson Subject: BEYOND THE ELECTRONIC BOOK ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I just found out about this workshop and thought indexers might be particularly interested since hypertext generation and index generation share so many skills and uses. BEYOND THE ELECTRONIC BOOK: A ONE DAY WORKSHOP FOR SERIOUS HYPERTEXT September 10, 1994 Boston, MA Eastgate Systems invites you to join us for a provocative one-day hypertext event. Join leading hypertext writers, editors, and designers in charting the frontiers of hypermedia, exploring how hypertext will redefine and extend serious writing while preserving the essential values of literacy. Whether you read, write, or publish hypertext, or if you simply want to learn more about hypertext and the future of interactive media, this workshop will provide you with thoughtful, up-to-date and practical information, as well as plenty of food for thought (not to mention lunch). And in keeping with the hands-on spirit of the technology, we'll provide you with a selection of fine hypertexts. We do not believe the future of electronic publishing lies in games and product tie-ins. Come help us redefine the book! SCHEDULED SPEAKERS Writing Over The Edge: Hypertext and the Literary Avante-Garde George P. Landow, Brown University Revenge of the Androids: Hypermedia and the Transformation of Publishing Kathryn Cramer, Eastgate Systems, Inc. Standards Meet Reality: SGML, HyTime, and the World-Wide Web David Durand, Boston University Managing Drama and Tension for Effective Hypertext Mark Bernstein, Eastgate Systems, Inc. Engaging the Reader: Retooling Hypertext Nonfiction Diane Greco, Eastgate Systems, Inc. On the Frontier: Hypermedia, The Net, and Enterprise-Wide Publishing Philip Werner, Interleaf HYPERMEDIA CLINIC DETAILS Date: Saturday, 10 September 1994 Place: Guest Quarters Hotel, Cambridge MA Time: 10:00 am - 4:30 pm (registration begins at 9:00 am) Registration fee: before August 10: $275 after August 10: $325 full-time students: $75 A limited number of partial scholarships are available for writers, artists, and booksellers. To ensure an intimate, workshop atmosphere, attendance will be strictly limited. We strongly encourage you to make early reservations. Substitutions will be accepted. Cancellations will be accepted if received in writing and postmarked no later than August 26. Unforseen circumstances may require changes in the program. Dates and locations subject to change or cancellation at our discretion. To register: Send your name, company or institutional affiliation, address, phone number, and internet address, along with your payment (we will accept a check, or you can use your Visa or MasterCard -- if paying by credit card, please include your card number and the expiration date) to Eastgate Systems, Inc. 134 Main Street Watertown, MA 02172 USA For more information, call EASTGATE toll-free at (800) 562-1638, or fax (617) 924-9051, or contact us at Eastgate@world.std.com. Rosemary Michelle Simpson ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Aug 1994 15:00:38 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: organization name ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Still working on the demographics book. How would you list the following? Center for Career and Life Planning at New York University's School of Continuing Education This book is for a general audience, and I'm tempted to follow Nancy Mulvany's advice (_Indexing Books_) and list it by key word with doublepostings (there will be few locators for this entry). Here are a few possibilities. Comments? Career and Life Planning, Center for (School of Continuing Education, New York University) Continuing Education, School of (New York University) Y'all must be indexing like mad; the list has been so quiet. Oh, maybe you're vacationing! ;-) Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Aug 1994 15:03:01 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: GinnaD@aol.com Subject: Re: Indexicon ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Nancy and all, There is a short listing in the 8/94 BYTE magazine also about Indexicon (p. 206). Fortunately, it doesn't make the same clain that the PC Week magazine made comparing it's effectiveness to professional programmers. It sure makes it sound easy - "Indexicon responds to the click of your mouse by reading your document, locating the significant terms and phrases, and then generating an index." Nice thought... Ginna D