========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:55:11 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Wisconsin indexers' meeting Our informal group will hold its next meeting Saturday, Nov. 4, at Riverbrook Restaurant in Shorewood (Milwaukee suburb), 11:00 a.m.-1:00 p.m. The discussion topic will be scheduling jobs (how many jobs to take on in a month, how to pace yourself, how to keep track of jobs, what to do about gaps, etc.). If you have any tools or visuals that show how you handle scheduling (e.g., a marked up calendar, a printout of a page from business software, or whatever), by all means bring it along. To get to Riverbrook: 1. From the west and south, take I-94 to Milwaukee, then I-43 north to Capitol Dr. Head east on Capitol. Riverbrook is about a mile down the road, on the right. 2. From the north, take I-43 south to Capitol Dr., etc. Riverbrook is a family-style restaurant (casual dress and good, cheap food). Please RSVP by 11/1. Thanks. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | Life is good. Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | Milwaukee, WI | P.S. Folks from Chicago and thereabouts are always welcome, too. ;-) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 00:11:14 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kevin Subject: Repackagers? Question.. What is this "repackager" concept about? I've been aware of increasing "vertical integration" in the publishing world, for example typesetters getting into the publishing business. Is this the same, or related to, the repackager? Can anyone explain what's driving this, and what are its (business) implications for us? How can we find these people for example? Thanks Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 08:08:15 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: STC Rocky Mountain Chapter Needs Judges This note has been posted to multiple lists. My apologies if you have seen it more than once. Kathy Halloran and I are co-chairs for the 1995-96 Technical Publications and Art Competition sponsored by the STC Rocky Mountain Chapter. We need judges for all categories: Newsletters, Brochures, Trade/News Articles, Scholarly & Professional Articles, Technical Reports, Training Manuals, Student Competition, Software Manuals, Hardware Manuals, Books, and Art. Qualifications for judges include: - Minimum of 3 years experience in technical communication field - Familiarity with type of document or artwork in category - Ability to recognize good technical communication - Ability to objectively analyze and evaluate documents for content, editing, layout, style, etc. and also the ability to examine the parts to see how they combine into an effective whole - Ability to provide constructive criticism and justify scores - Some experience in editing or art evaluation (Note: Judges may not judge in any category in which they or their company has an entry.) Ideally, judges should come from outside your work group to avoid "stacking the deck." Judges for this year's competition must attend two meetings -- one on November 5 and one on December 3. Judges will also be invited to attend the Awards Banquet, which will be held in April 1996. If you are interested in being a judge for this year's Technical Publications and Arts Competition, or if you have any questions, please contact: Lori Lathrop Lathrop Media Services Phone: 303-567-4011 (office) or 303-567-9533 (home) E-mail: 76620.456@compuserve.com or LMLathrop@aol.com or Kathy Halloran Phone: 303-499-5411 (work) or 303-423-0532 (home Fax: 303-665-0827 We'll look forward to hearing from you! ******************************************************************** Lori Lathrop ----------> INTERNET:76620.456@compuserve.com Lathrop Media Services, P.O. Box 3065, Idaho Springs, CO 80452 Office: 303-567-4011 / Home: 303-567-9533 ******************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 09:54:25 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Colin Izat <100265.2771@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Commercial value of indexes I have been a part-time book indexer for several years and am now expanding my customer base. Several publishers of 'commercial' journals (e.g. for hobbyists) are interested in having indexes produced but they need to know what the cost-benefits are, i.e. what's in it for them, never mind the readers? Has anyone else come across this problem and, if so, how did you 'sell' your indexing to these publishers? regards, Katie Izat ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:24:12 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Anthony Tripido Subject: HURRY! Register Today! Here it is! A one-day event sponsored by the National Federation of Abstracting and Information Services (NFAIS) geared specifically towards INDEXING! But hurry, time is running out. This event will take place on Thursday, October 19th! This all-important, one-day seminar is titled: "TQM-Benchmarking in Indexing." The actual Benchmarking Project was initiated in the summer of 1993 to ascertain "best practices" among database producers and to apply benchmarking to the indexing process. You will here a brief overview of the project and the results it generated. You will also here from participating companies and what they discovered. You will learn what the top organizations are doing in the way of indexing, automated indexing, and how they plan to stay on top. TQM - Benchmarking in Indexing Thursday, October 19, 1995 held at: AIAA in Washington, DC Prelimenary COURSE AGENDA MODERATOR: Tony Lenti, AIAA 10:00 - 10:30 Introduction and Overview of Benchmarking (Tony Lenti, AIAA) 10:30 - 11:00 NFAIS Benchmarking Project (Pam Weaver, Chair, Petroleum Abstracts) 11:00 - 11:15 BREAK 11:15 - 12:00 Indexing Quality at National Library of Medicine (Nancy D. Wright, National Library of Medicine) 12:00 - 12:45 LUNCH 12:45 - 1:30 Indexing Quality at Chemical Abstracts Service (David W. Weisgerber, Chemical Abstracts Service) 1:30 - 1:45 BREAK 1:45 - 2:30 Indexing Quality at Engineering Index (Mauro Pittaro, Engineering Index) 2:30 - 3:15 Indexing Quality at Information Access Company (Monica Dunn, IAC) 3:15 - 4:00 WORKSHOP (Q&A) (Tony Lenti) ****************************** If you have any other questions, please call me at 215-893-1561 or send e-mail. If you would like to register, please contact Margaret Manson at NFAIS: 215-893-1561, fax: 215-893-1564. We accept all major credit cards for your convenience. The fee for this event is $165 for non-NFAIS members and $145 for members. The fee includes materials, continental breakfast, and a lunch! Don't miss out on this golden opportunity to hear from the leaders about the progress of indexing! I look forward to meeting you at the seminar! Sincerely, Anthony Tripido Communications Manager, NFAIS trip10@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:27:36 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Commercial value of indexes Katie, I've come across that question many times, in the forms of "why should I have an index"? I've heard it so many times, that I have a piece that I've written - one page - that I sometimes send with my resume or a bid. Basically, my approach is that an index is an information retrieval tool, one that will elevate their publication from a throw-away hobby magazine to an information resource, that their readers will keep and use and re-use. That, in turn, will increase the value of the magazine to the subscribers, leading to a better re-subscription rate, and will make it more valuable to non-subscribers or future subscribers. I tell them it's a selling point for their magazine to have an index. People these days want to be able to find what they need. The information in the magazine is of no use if people can't find it when they need it. This is the day and age of fast information retrieval. Thumbing through magazines is a thing of the past, unless done for the sheer enjoyment of reading and enjoying the publication. But not when you're looking for something. So, I tell them, join the Information Age and make the good information in your magazine easily available to your readers and to researchers. And advertise it that way! Some will buy into it, and some won't. You can't help that. But you can sure do your best to educate them to our way of thinking! Hope this helps Janet Perlman (jperlman@aol.com) Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:24:05 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Address needed Does anyone have Charlotte Skuster's e-mail address? I tried to contact her at skuster@bingvmb.bitnet but my message bounced back. Many thanks. Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@symnet.net) "Great philosophers do not finish; they die."--David Cummiskey ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 12:04:18 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Rocky Mountain Horror Show! ASI-Colorado Meeting Notice: TOPIC: The Rocky Mountain Horror Show! Be prepared to contribute your indexing horror stories or to listen and learn from others' experiences and, hopefully, you will spare yourself some horrors! COSTUME OPTIONAL! DATE: October 27, 1995 TIME: 6:00 PM PLACE: The Blue Parrot Restaurant 620 Main Street Louisville, Colorado If you plan to attend: Contact Edyie Porpa, our Program Director, at 442-2847 so she can tell the restaurant how many people to expect. ********************************************************************* Lori Lathrop ----------> INTERNET:76620.456@compuserve.com or LMLathrop@aol.com Lathrop Media Services, P.O. Box 3065, Idaho Springs, CO 80452 Office: 303-567-4011 / Home: 303-567-9533 / Fax: 303-567-9306 ********************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 12:16:46 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PilarW@AOL.COM Subject: DC/ASI Indexing Technical Documentation Workshop Indexing Technical Documentation Saturday, November 18, 1995 National Agricultural Library Beltsville, MD (From I-95, take exit 25 North on Route 1 to Beltsville. NAL is the tall building on the right. ) You are invited to the first American Society of Indexers (ASI) Professional Education Workshop hosted by the Washington, DC Chapter (DC/ASI). This year's workshop is presented by Lori Lathrop, of Lathrop Media Services, Idaho Springs, CO. Her workshop is especially for technical writers, indexers, and their fellow communicators. We look forward to seeing you! 8:30-9:00 Registration/Coffee, croissants 9:00-9:15 Welcome 9:15-10:45 1. "Evaluating Samples of Indexes for Technical Documents" 2. "Index Formats" 3. "Planning the Index" 10:45-11:00 Refreshment break 11:00-12:30 4. "Tips for Creating Great Indexes" 5. "Analyzing the Document" 6. "Generating Index Entries" 12:30-1:30 Buffet Luncheon/Schmoozing 1:30-3:00 7. "Retrievability" 8. "Vocabulary Control" 9. "Refining and Enhancing the Index" 3:00-3:15 Refreshment break 3:15-5:00 10. "Using an Editing Checklist" 11. "Evaluating Quality and Usability" 12. "Fixing Bad Indexes" 13. "Indexing Online Documents" 5:00-5:30 Reception/Networking on the Balcony For more information, call DC/ASI Secretary, Enid Zafran at 202/452-4301 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------- REGISTRATION FORM Cost: $35 for ASI members, $50 for non-ASI members. Registration includes handouts, drinks, snacks, and buffet luncheon. Register by Friday, November 10, to ensure a place. Name: Telephone: Mailing address: Please make checks payable to: Washington, DC Chapter, ASI Mail checks and registration forms to: Enid Zafran, Secretary, DC/ASI, Bureau of National Affairs, 1231 25th Street NW, Rm. N-476, Washington, DC 20037 Confirmations will be mailed for registrations postmarked by November 10, 1995. Onsite registrations will be accepted as space permits. Refunds are subject to a $5 handling fee. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 09:51:20 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: Address needed Hazel wrote: >Does anyone have Charlotte Skuster's e-mail address? I tried to contact >her at > >skuster@bingvmb.bitnet > >but my message bounced back. > The bitnet domain seems to only work if you are ON the bitnet. For us outsiders, Charlotte's address is: cskuster@library.lib.binghamton.edu We should get this into the masthead of Key Words! I had trouble subscribing to Index-L because of this problem, and I notice Julius Ariail now lists both addresses--thanks, Julius! Elinor Lindheimer President, American Society of Indexers elinorl@mcn.org P.S. I just had to resend this message, because by pressing "Reply" it got sent to the plain bitnet adddress, and got bounced back! I have to use "Reply to" with the memorized address above. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 12:46:24 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Address of Charlotte Skuster Thanks to everybody who sent me Charlotte Skuster's address. Two messages bounced back, but one seems to've made it, so I think I've got the correct address now. If anyone else should need Charlotte's address, please contact me at my e-mail address. Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@symnet.net) "Great philosophers do not finish; they die."--David Cummiskey ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 12:04:12 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nan Badgett <76400.3351@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Repackagers? I hear the term packager or producer used rather than repackager. Is this the same thing? A packager (or producer) subcontracts with a publisher to do all the production work on a book by coordinating all the freelancers -- including indexers. You may make less money working for a packager, but they have contacts you may find hard to establish. What do others say? Nan Badgett Word-a-bil-i-ty ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 13:15:51 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Don Tupling Organization: University of Windsor Subject: Unsubscribe Dear Charlotte: Please unsubscribe. Don Tupling E-mail: dtuplin@uwindsor.ca Telephone: (519) 253-4232 Ext. 3177 Snail mail: University of Windsor, Leddy Library, 401 Sunset Ave., Windsor, Ontario, Canada N9B 3P4 "Without a key we search and search in vain, But a good index is a monstrous gain." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:38:55 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Bitnet addresses In-Reply-To: <9510021718.AA03680@carson.u.washington.edu> I can't send directly to a bitnet address, but for some reason the system will accept a REPLY to a bitnet address (like this one). So to reach Charlotte, I simply find an archived message from her, change the subject line, delete the original msg and type in a new one, and send it. And the system doesn't protest. Now, of course, thanks to Elinor, I've added Charlotte's internet address to my address book and will never have to use my 'work-around' to reach her again! Regards, Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, Wa. e-mail: cweaver@u.washington.edu voice: 206/930-4348 On Mon, 2 Oct 1995, Elinor Lindheimer wrote: > The bitnet domain seems to only work if you are ON the bitnet. > For us outsiders, Charlotte's address is: > > cskuster@library.lib.binghamton.edu > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 13:51:55 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Subject: My e-mail address skuster@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu is now the preferred address as it can be used from anywhere. I'll see that it is changed in _KeyWords_. Also, if you want to unsubscribe or set to nomail or send any other command to the listserv use--listserv@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu To further confuse matters, I have another address which I prefer for personal mail since the mailer is easy to use--cskuster@library.lib.binghamton.edu Sorry for any inconvenience. Charlotte ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 14:03:35 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Re: Repackagers If repackagers are the same as packagers (and I don't know about this), I've had some bad experiences with them. My latest bad experience involves a packager that simply will not pay all the freelancers involved in the project. I spoke with the publisher for which the packager is working. Evidently, the publisher sent the packager a mutually agreed-upon amount of money to pay freelancers. Now that all the freelancers have done their part, the packager is demanding *more* money from the publisher and refusing to pay the freelancers. The publisher is consulting with its attorneys. The packager isn't telling what it's done with the large hunk of money it received to pay freelancers. If there are good experiences with packagers out there, I'd be eager to hear them. I'm afraid I've dealt with a few sleazy outfits, and I'll never work for a packager again. Once burned, twice shy, and all that. Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@symnet.net) "Great philosophers do not finish; they die."--David Cummiskey ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 14:18:27 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kevin Subject: Repackagers? I asked: >Question.. >What is this "repackager" concept about?.... per Nan Badgett, I meant to say "packagers". Thanks for the info. Thanks Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:28:27 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Sonsie C. Conroy" Subject: Re: Repackagers? In-Reply-To: <199510020436.VAA09669@callamer.com> On Mon, 2 Oct 1995, Kevin wrote: > Question.. > > What is this "repackager" concept about? I've been aware of increasing > "vertical integration" in the publishing world, for example typesetters > getting into the publishing business. Is this the same, or related to, the > repackager? Can anyone explain what's driving this, and what are its > (business) implications for us? How can we find these people for example? Kevin, I do probably half my work for book "packagers," as they're known on the West Coast. Essentially, a publisher hires this firm (usually not much larger than my own--one or two people, perhaps a few more) to take a book from the manuscript stage all the way to bound books. Sometimes, a packager only deals with one aspect of the job instead. The publisher can "downsize" its permanent staff, when it has, in effect, a huge reservoir of available freelancers at its command...and this saves the publisher money. In CA and the rest of the West, _The Directory--Bookbuilders West_ is a great source of contacts. I think LMP also has a section on packagers. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 14:31:06 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: Usage In a message dated 95-09-30 10:00:35 EDT, you write: >The publications style for at least one Fortune 500 cmpany calls indices >"archaic and pretentious." I never use it. Same with "appendices" vs. >"appendixes." Dick, Just because a few individuals were able to get their dislike of "indices" and "appendices" enshrined in a style guide for a particular company, this does not make them arbiters of the English language--regardless of how stellar their Dun & Bradstreet rating. It is simply *their* preference for the more Anglicized plurals of "index" and "appendix". "Indices" and "appendices" translate almost unchanged into at least one other language--a point in their favor, IMHO. Aside from the fact that "indexes" is the generally preferred term for what we indexers create (which is why I use it), some of us who are neither "archaic" nor "pretentious" use "indices" for mathematical and scientific applications and "appendices" as a matter of personal preference. One of my clients, who produces a computer programming product, consistently uses "indices" in their manuals with respect to certain variables, which I dutifully enter as "indices" in my "indexes" for them. We also merrily discuss whether my "indexes" should include material covered in their "appendices". ;-D Lynn ****************************************************************************** ** Lynn Moncrief visit the ASI Web page at: TECHindex & Docs http://www.well.com/user/ASI/ 13681 Newport Ave., #8375 Tustin, CA 92680 watch this space for a TECHindex URL wildfire@earthlink.net wyldfire@ix.netcom.com wildefire@aol.com ****************************************************************************** *** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 14:31:08 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: Personal discussions In a message dated 95-09-29 13:06:32 EDT, Kevin asked: >And Lynn, so you think >indexing is a little like sculpting? Sure, indexing's a bit like Michaelangelo's view of sculpting. We chip away the words of the book to lay bare the index within it. :-D Lynn ****************************************************************************** ** Lynn Moncrief visit the ASI Web page at: TECHindex & Docs http://www.well.com/user/ASI/ 13681 Newport Ave., #8375 Tustin, CA 92680 watch this space for a TECHindex URL wildfire@earthlink.net wyldfire@ix.netcom.com wildefire@aol.com ****************************************************************************** *** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:49:39 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Sonsie C. Conroy" Subject: Re: Repackagers In-Reply-To: <199510021814.LAA10044@callamer.com> Hazel, I've worked with a small group of packagers for up to 7 or 8 years each, and have had no particular problems that I haven't had with regular publishers. In fact, the only two times I have had to take someone to court over editorial work involved two "regular" publishers who refused to pay me. I won both times, and COLLECTED both times. It wouldn't be a Bad Thing to ask for "references" from any new publisher or packager that wants to work with you, especially if the company is small, or new, or you've never heard of them and can't find anything in LMP or other reliable references. |==========| | Sonsie | |==========| ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 15:18:51 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Packagers (was: Re: Repackagers?) In a message dated 95-10-02 00:39:03 EDT, Kevin asked: >What is this "repackager" concept about? > Can anyone explain what's driving this, and what are its >(business) implications for us? How can we find these people for example? Kevin, I won't cover the same ground that Nan did in her excellent answer to your question. As for the business implications for us, it seems to be a mixed bag. While I've had a consistently good experience working with a particular packager, I've heard other indexers recount hair-raising stories of difficulties getting paid. So, it seems to vary from packager to packager. How to find them? The _1996 Writer's Market_, sold by the Writer's Digest Book Club contains an 8-page section listing packagers (called "book producers" here). Probably _The Literary Marketplace_ contains a similar listing. The packager I work with was referred to me by one of our mutual clients, so it wasn't the result of any marketing effort on my part. A similar potential market for us indexers is desktop publishers, some of whom seem to be expanding into the book packaging business. The one I work with knew of me because I often send indexes I do for a mutual client of ours to them for layout. In turn, they apparently sold indexing services to another client of theirs, then asked me to subcontract to them to produce the indexes. Unlike the experience some of us have had with book packagers per se, I get an excellent per page rate from them. Bottom line? There may be a large potential out there for indexers establishing strategic business alliances with desktop publishers mutually beneficial to all involved. I've seen articles in a few small business magazines about this concept which has a powerful leveraging effect, IMHO. Consider the ripple effect of connecting with several packagers and/or desktop publishers who each have their own circle of clients. Just the reduction in non-billable hours spent in marketing (except to these types of businesses) may make it worthwhile. The only drawback I see, and the importance of this would vary from indexer to indexer, is that one is likely to receive quite a few books for indexing outside one's preferred specialty. Lynn ****************************************************************************** * Lynn Moncrief visit the ASI Web page at: TECHindex & Docs http://www.well.com/user/ASI/ 13681 Newport Ave., #8375 Tustin, CA 92680 watch this space for a TECHindex URL wildfire@earthlink.net wyldfire@ix.netcom.com wildefire@aol.com ****************************************************************************** *** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 15:41:59 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Repackagers Kevin and all, I'd say to be careful about working for packagers, and be sure they have arranged for you to send your invoice directly to the publisher .... unless you know the packager and have confidence that he/she will pay in a timely manner. I too have had some bad experiences with packagers. I've never had one refuse to pay, but I have waited months to be paid, and have had to deal with repeated promises that the check is in the mail, etc. Not a pleasant way to do business! Now, when I get a call from a new packager, I ask who I will be invoicing, and if the answer is "the packager," I'm very careful and my antennas go up. The decision is often difficult. Sometimes it depends how badly you need the money immediately or whether you could conceivably wait for it for longer than usual. In other words, how your cash flow is going and whether you are willing to take a chance at this point. I'm sure there are good packagers and bad ones -- I don't mean to condemn the group as a whole. Not at all! But it is important to realize that many are small businesses, as we indexers are, and therefore may be subject to more cash flow problems than larger firms like publishers. Just be careful. Janet Perlman (jperlman@aol.com) Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 15:50:24 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Packagers On Mon, 2 Oct 1995 JPerlman@AOL.COM wrote: > I'd say to be careful about working for packagers, and be sure they have > arranged for you to send your invoice directly to the publisher .... unless > you know the packager and have confidence that he/she will pay in a timely > manner. This is an excellent point. One packager for which I'd worked made sure that the publisher paid me. The packager was a pain to deal with for all sorts of other reasons: utter and complete disorganization, missing pages, illegible pages, never having the same person speak with me twice, and on and on. The packager I'm now having problems with did *not* have me invoice the publisher. So, off went my invoice to the packager. On July 9. I'm glad that my invoice was for $322.75. Other freelancers are out thousands of dollars. I realize I could go to Small Claims Court here in Florida. I'd most likely get a judgment. But collecting on the judgment when the packager is in Connecticut, when you don't know with whom it banks, and all that, is pretty much impossible. I often fantasize about flying to Connecticut, turning up on the packager's doorstep, and SHRIEKING until I get paid. Janet, how I wish I'd had your words of wisdom before I took on that freelance editing job! Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@symnet.net) "Great philosophers do not finish; they die."--David Cummiskey ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 17:43:28 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Evans Subject: Indexing: A Living or a Hobby? I am a potential new indexer and although I'm extremely excited about doing this type of work, I've just finished reading the Indexing FAQ from ASI's Home Page on The Web. It paints a bleak picture about the income potential for this profession. Perhaps the author is only trying to deter any semi-serious individuals, but it gives me very serious pause. I've spent the last week dreaming about becoming an Indexer, it is something I would truely LOVE to do. I'm willing to ride whatever the necessary learning curve is and I'm not trying to become a millionaire. But at the same time I literally cannot afford ($$$) to pursue this dream if there isn't a reasonable chance of a reasonable payback (living). After reading that FAQ I was literally CRUSHED! I so much want to pursue a career in Indexing. I would very much appreciate your comments and suggestions. Thanks in advance, Sue Evans (Desperately seeking encouragement) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 14:45:05 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Sonsie C. Conroy" Subject: Re: Packagers (was: Re: Repackagers?) In-Reply-To: <199510021920.MAA18165@callamer.com> Just to give a little added perspective, one of the packagers I've worked with the longest had me bill the publisher for a lengthy and complex editing job recently. The job ran THREE MONTHS over schedule, so I reluctantly asked if I could send at least a 50% billing because I was really in the hole on the job. The packager said "sure," but the publisher never acknowledged the invoice. In the meantime, I finished the job and billed the publisher for the remaining 50%. When THAT invoice went unpaid for several weeks as well, I contacted the packager, who promised to dun the publisher. The result was that the packager ended up paying me himself, and HE stood in line with his hand out to the publisher. As far as I know, that bill still isn't paid...but I was. So they're not all bad. Just be wary of very new or very small companies who haven't built up a reputation for fair dealings. And do ask what other freelancers have worked for them...and who the publisher is for the project. An unknown new publisher isn't a good credit risk, either. |==========| | Sonsie | |==========| ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 18:42:49 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary Mortensen Subject: Re: Packagers (was: Re: Repackagers?) To add a different perspective, I've had very good experience with the two packagers who are among my clients. Both have budgets per book that limit what they can pay for indexing, but I've been satisfied with the rates so far. And both pay me within 30 days (I invoice them; I imagine the publishers don't know who I am.) It's the regular publishers who don't necessarily, in my experience. (That reminds me, I have to make a couple phone calls this week to follow up on late payments...) The difference between my experience and that of others may be the size of the companies - although I don't know the total number of employees, both of my clients have at least 4 people in production, which tells me there must be more in the entire company. I found them in the packager section of LMP. I limited my cold call/letter strategy to companies that published more than 10 books in the previous year. I think some of my letters went to one-person packagers, but I haven't gotten work from any of them. I guess they must be hiring the rest of you :-) Mary -- * Mary Mortensen Madison, New Jersey * marymort@aol.com 201-514-1710 * * "Wealth, I was discovering, is more accurately measured in what * you enjoy than in what you possess." Jean Aspen, _Arctic Son_ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 18:58:04 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Fred Leise Subject: Re: Indexing: A Living or a Hobby? Sue Evans asked about making a living from indexing. As with all new careers, the best way to get into indexing on a part-time basis if you can. That way you can learn the skills, build your business and client list and make sure that indexing is for you. Then after a few years you should have the knowledge necessary to decide whether a full-time indexing career is for you. And certainly while it does not provide a munificent lifestyle, indexing can be a liveable, full-time career. Fred Leise "Between the Lines" Indexing and Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 19:02:19 CDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: ma1949@CS.SIU.EDU Subject: unsbscribe Unsubscribe INDEX-L, Shang Liu @ Alexia.lis.uiuc.edu. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 20:11:41 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Indexing: A Living or a H... Sue, Fred gave you the best possible advice. Try it part time, build it, give yourself time to evaluate whether you like doing this all the time, build your client list, and then go for it as a living if everything works out in your favor. After years and years of free-lancing part-time only, I decided to build it into a full-time business. It took a few years of steadily more and more work, til I reached a point where I couldn't keep up with doing both a full-time job and the indexing on a part-time basis. I would have had to turn down too much work. A year ago I left my full-time job to continue building the indexing business. And it has exceeded my expectations! As Fred said, it's not going to make you rich, but if you're willing to work hard and long hours when needed, if you can do enough networking and market yourself well, and if you can produce high quality indexes, the rewards are there. The other caveat is that you have to be willing to fight to get your rates high enough to pay you a living wage. I think the reason the FAQ seems so pessimistic is that your clients will want to pay you too little -- it's endemic to the business. So you've got to work at that constantly! I'd say don't be put off by the pessimistic tone of the FAQ. There are a lot of happy indexers who are earning a living at it - working hard, but reaping the profits. Try it, and if you love doing it, go ahead! Janet Perlman (jperlman@aol.com) Southwest indexing ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:48:58 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joan Jensen Subject: Re: listservs and personal mail >I would like to echo the appeal made in the last couple weeks about INDEX-L >participants not using this forum for personal discussions. I love to >see INDEX-L active, as I'm sure we all do. But, in the last month a lot of >posts to specific individuals are coming to the list. Reading through >so many notes written to other people is getting to be a hassle. I'd >like to continue to read this list, but if it means that I have to read >other people's email, it's not worth my time. > >NETIQUETTE TIP: If you begin a post to a listserv with an individual's > name, it is probably more appropriate to send email to that > individual. Think twice before sending it to the entire list. If you > aren't sure how to compose replies to senders of notes rather than to > the entire list, contact your network administrator for help. > I wish to second these comments. Is this the reason there has been such a spate of "unsubscribe" messges to the list? Despite the gems of informtion I gain from the list, I have also considered not subscribing because of the number of messages of personal interest. Joan ======================================================================= Joan D Jensen Phone: 06 2492994 R.G. Menzies Library Building Fax: 06 2490058 Australian National University Canberra ACT 0200 Australia Be practical! Plan for a miracle every day. ======================================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 18:55:23 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ned Bedinger Subject: Warning: Wordbath Is Pernicious!!! About a year ago I solicited INDEX-L subscribers to test my full-text indexing software. Over the course of two test releases, approximately 50 copies of the software were distributed by anonymous ftp. Tonight I got my first reply about the software, and boy was it angry. The tester, for the trouble, got a Windows installation that was totally hosed. The problem is now known, thank you. Please contact me for more information. If anyone still has pointers to a copy of WORDBATH, please take them down. Ned Bedinger qwa@eskimo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 22:35:52 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Shang Liu Subject: unsubscribe Unsubscribe INDEX-L, Shang Liu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 21:14:00 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John Gear Subject: Newsroom Index Query Hi, I'm a fairly long-time lurker on this list because, although I'm a complete and total novice in the field (I've done one index, for free, and have no training in the field), I feel that, especially after reading the posts on why people like indexing, "I have the soul of an indexer" (I only wish I could say it in German so it would sound Kennedyesque). I've *always* been the person who clips things out and passes them to friends (because I *love* to share information that people will find useful), *always* the person who gets bugged by things misfiled -- not because I'm too anal retentive (does that have a hyphen? ;^) but because I know it means that someone won't be able to find it. So, after discovering this list, I am gratified to know that there's actually a profession for people like me. I don't know if I'll ever pursue it formally--especially after the Money article--but it's good to know. But, meanwhile, my weird compels me to try and clean up a mess at a local radio station where I volunteer. This struggling (i.e., no $$) community radio station has a news department but really needs to start a background file so that our news stories can be better informed. If we had a good filing system for newspaper clippings and press releases and what not we could file and find much more efficiently. Since we do news with volunteers clear and useful categories are imperative--if it's not transparent, people won't use it. My query: My approach thus far has been to keep clipping like mad with the expectation that eventually categories will emerge. But I'm afraid that I'll wind up buried under a huge composting mass of clippings. So this evening I got to thinking--maybe someone's done this! Is there anyone on this list that has or can point me toward a good, inexpensive general subject index (preferably in ascii). Maybe there's even a standard subject index (like the Commerce Department's standard business identifier codes)? Or has someone helped a newspaper or radio/TV station get their files under control -- would you be willing to share? Thanks in advance for any assistance, John Gear (catalyst@pacifier.com) The Bill of Rights--The Original Contract with America Accept no substitutes. Beware of imitations. Insist on the genuine articles. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 00:45:42 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Larry Harrison Subject: Indexing: A Living or a Hobby As co-author of the referenced FAQ, maybe I should chime in. The FAQ answer on income had at least three purposes: to explain the difference between business revenue as a self-employed person and personal income; to discourage casually interested people who seem to jump on any "opportunity" to make big bucks at home with their personal computer; and to caution seriously interested people against quitting their day job all at once without carefully building their expertise and their client base first. Janet Perlman wrote: >Fred gave you the best possible advice. Try it part time, build it, give >yourself time to evaluate whether you like doing this all the time, build >your client list, and then go for it as a living if everything works out in >your favor. Exactly! >I think the reason the FAQ seems >so pessimistic is that your clients will want to pay you too little -- it's >endemic to the business. So you've got to work at that constantly! This is partly true. You do have to watch out for clients offering you slave wages. In the update of the FAQ that Pilar and I are now doing, we realized that the FAQ is really TOO pessimistic and the new one will be both more informative and more encouraging, while still having some cautionary notes. Stay tuned for an announcement when it is available on the Home Page! Larry Harrison (larryh@millcomm.com) 507/280-0049 Freelance book indexing Rochester, Minnesota * Don't believe the Mac bigots who say the Mac has had all the * * Win 95 features since 1984. It had to be ... 1987, at least. * ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 09:55:04 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Indexing Services Subject: Indexing with Pagemaker Hi all, I need info on indexing software manuals with Pagemaker. Specifically, is it feasible to do the index in Cindex and then embed it in the Pagemaker file?(my preferred way of doing it) Or is it more efficient to use Pagemaker for the entire indexing process? If I use Cindex, is there any automated way of embedding the index in Pagemaker via other software, macros, etc.? Any feedback would be appreciated. Also is there anything written on this other than Nancy Mulvany's section in her book? Thanks in advance. Joan Griffitts indexsvc@indyvax.iupui.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:19:50 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: Indexing: A Living or a Hobby? In a message dated 95-10-02 17:47:16 EDT, Sue lamented: > I'm willing to ride whatever the necessary learning curve is and >I'm not trying to become a millionaire. But at the same time I literally >cannot afford ($$$) to pursue this dream if there isn't a reasonable chance >of a reasonable payback (living). > >After reading that FAQ I was literally CRUSHED! Sue (and anyone else crushed by reading the FAQ), Yes, you can make a reasonable living indexing!!!!! What are my credentials for saying this? Try going from totally unemployed to making $13K *more* than the livable salary I had on my previous job--in the very first year of business. This is not bragging or due to anything special about me, but to tell you yes, it can be done with hard work and a fierce commitment. The sheer angst of your message says to me that your dream has a good chance of becoming the passion you need to make it come true, given encouragement. OK, then here we go! Others already gave you some excellent advice to which I'd like to stress: network, network, network! If you're not already a member of ASI, join. Your $50 membership dues is a very small investment with large potential returns. Attend your local chapter meetings and the national conferences. Other indexers can be your best source of referrals as well as marketing ideas. Of course, the more you put into ASI and its activities, the more you will get out of it, far more than just the possibility of referrals, but all of it contributing to your potential success as an indexer. Still riding the high of the Rocky Mountain Indexing conference last weekend, I can attest to the motivational kick in the pants that being with other indexers gives you. Take a good indexing course, like the USDA course, but realize that you have still only begun to learn indexing. The next step is to practice and practice indexing to build up your skill and speed. Speed is one of the important elements in making a decent living in our profession. (The FAQ states 10pp/hr as the average, however 20-30pp/hr are attainable on many books while maintaining quality.) Learn everything you can about indexing. Absorb it into your very pores. Not only are we building professional expertise here, but the confidence you'll need as I explain below. IMHO, devoting as much attention to learning how to start and run a business is as important to success as learning to write quality indexes. (Now, this is a whole lot more fun than it sounds, so stay with me here.) Reading books and magazines on small business entrepeneurship, attending seminars and workshops on the subject (including sales, motivational, etc.) not only give you the nuts and bolts needed for running a business. They also inspire the success-oriented, go-get-'em confidence and savvy that I strongly believe is critical to getting a good start. Mingle with successful entrepeneurs (specialties are unimportant) and inhale the contagious aroma of their success. (Business owners are often happy to give guidance as long as you respect their time.) I was unemployed before starting my business, so I made all of this a full-time job, in addition to studying indexing. (Panic at knowing that I absolutely *had* to make this work was also a good motivator. ;-D) But a key factor, before even getting my business cards, etc. printed was that, as soon as I got my DBA, I went directly into the mindset of *being in business*. Failure was not an option. Months before getting my first client, my response to anyone who asked what I did was that I owned my own business. Your situation may not be as dire as mine was, but the total commitment, take-no-prisoners philosophy still applies (even if you start on a part-time basis as Janet and Fred recommended). IMHO, naming your business early on, getting your DBA, etc. gives your business a reality that commits you to nurturing it as you would any child/creation of yours. (Plus, it's an exhiliarating process when you realize just how creative a venture you've embarked upon! Be sure to stop to smell those daisies at least once a day! ;-D) Once you've taken your indexing course, refined and honed your skills by doing your practice indexes to the point where there is no doubt in your mind that you're a crack indexer (with a stellar sample to prove to the rest of the world you are), you *are* an indexer. *Not* a beginning indexer. Don't even let the word *beginner* enter your vocabulary because that sets your mentality for establishing a bargain-basement rate structure. After all, you're going to deliver a professional-grade index on time and to specification regardless of what it takes on your part. (You've already practiced enough to build up your speed to meet a reasonable deadline, remember?) Your confidence in your skills which enables you to ask for the rates you deserve and the "I'm in the business of indexing" mentality (with all that implies) can take you further than you expect. You may have to bargain down, but that's much easier than not asking for enough in the first place. But, to have the confidence to make it work, you have to be brutally honest with yourself about your skills and capabilities. We're talking about having a passion for excellence here, not bravado masking mediocrity, misleading people, or a flash-in-the-pan phenomenon. Sorry I went on so long about this. But when you referred to indexing as your dream, I couldn't bear to see it crushed so easily. Hold on to your dream, make it an all-consuming vision--a true passion, nourish it constantly by visualizing yourself as being a *successful* indexer, then bend every effort to make it come true. All kinds of wonderful surprises and rewards await you! Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs > > >Thanks in advance, > >Sue Evans >(Desperately seeking encouragement) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:27:31 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: Indexing with Pagemaker In a message dated 95-10-03 11:00:12 EDT, you write: >I need info on indexing software manuals with Pagemaker. Specifically, is >it feasible to do the index in Cindex and then embed it in the Pagemaker >file?(my preferred way of doing it) Or is it more efficient to use Pagemaker >for the entire indexing process? You can write the entire index in Cindex, then use Cindex's page order sort to get the entries into page number order. You can then embed the entries into PageMaker, but there is no automated way of pushing them in. You have to type them in. You must add time at the end of the project for the embedding process. The benefits of doing it in Cindex and embedding are 1) only needing the files at the end of the indexing process, not all the way through. 2) Being able to add, edit and rearrange entries easily 3) having true cross-reference checking 4) being able to do your first work on any machine that runs Cindex. If you do the entire index in PageMaker, a) you will need to have the files. Make sure the client is aware of that - if you have to piece and rearrange your editing work until you can get a specific file, and then can only have it for two hours, you cannot do effective work! (Real life example... really) b) You can do a lot of editing within the dialog box structure, but to do a complete edit, print it out. You need to divide making editorial changes into two parts: editing existing entries, and adding new ones. During editing, if you want to add entries, you must have the file and page open to do so, which is time-consuming. If you are updating changed pages that have already been indexed, you will need to open each entry to see if it still applies. c) You will also need to have your machine's fonts match those of the production machine if you want to see accurate page breaks, as font substitution can throw lines and pages off slightly. d) Any special small caps or italics will need to be flagged somehow in your entries, and added later, since PageMaker can't cope with those. e) Also, as more and more entries are added, the dialog box builds more slowly. In terms of efficiency, it's six of one, half a dozen of the other. You will probably spend the same amount of time - the tediousness of embedding makes up for the speed of writing in Cindex, and the tediousness of writing and editing in PageMaker offsets the the fact that it is already embedded. I think you will get a better index using Cindex, simply because it does not get in your way, and force you to break the flow of writing and editing. PageMaker gets in the way. > >If I use Cindex, is there any automated way of embedding the index in >Pagemaker via other software, macros, etc.? Not at this time. Wish there was! I think about how it should work a lot! > >Any feedback would be appreciated. Also is there anything written on this >other than Nancy Mulvany's section in her book? There was an old general article in Aldus magazine about writing indexes in Pagemaker, but not much elsewhere. Good luck! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 09:29:29 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: Re: Indexing with Pagemaker Joan Griffitts wrote: >I need info on indexing software manuals with Pagemaker. Specifically, is >it feasible to do the index in Cindex and then embed it in the Pagemaker >file? ... >Any feedback would be appreciated. Also is there anything written on this >other than Nancy Mulvany's section in her book? The Proceedings of the ASI Annual Meeting in San Diego, May 1994, contains a paper by Ed Malick on the process used by Frame Technology to index in Macrex, then embed--it should be the same process in Cindex. Elinor ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 09:42:20 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: indexing with Pagemaker I forgot to mention that the people at Frame did write a macro to speed the process of embedding the entries from the page-number-order sort. Joan could ask the client if someone there could write her a macro. They also had the writers do the actual embedding onsite, since they were so familiar with the material. That would take care of the extra-fee problem. Elinor ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 13:01:41 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Indexing: A Living or a H... Janet and I have followed similar tracks in this. I retired from corporate life in '92. Earlier in my career I had been a tech writer who had to create indexes. Towards the end, I was a human factors engineer (one who studies computer ease of use) and had conducted tests on what makes an index useful. After retirement, I worked as a contract tech writer and did indexes on the side for two years. A year ago I ended my last tech writing contract and went into indexes full time. I now have three regular clients and have recently hired an assistant so I can take on more. My income from indexing is modest but adequate. It is a slow startup and takes some digging to find clients and make yourself known. Depending on how much effort you put into building your business, it can be aything you want. Dick Evans ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 13:31:05 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: GinnaD@AOL.COM Subject: Unsubscribe Unsubscribe Ginna Denues ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 14:41:45 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Evans Subject: A Living or Career - THANK YOU ALL THANK YOU ALL for your words of encouragement! I was wavering, but now I'm going to GO FOR IT! Again, thanks, thanks, thanks .... your involvement and time really does make a difference (for me today and I'm sure in the future, I hope and intend to return the favor). As you will see (by my un-subcribing and then re-subscribing) I'm even changing me screen name to SeIndex. Sincerely, Sue Evans ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 17:03:02 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joan Giglierano Subject: NISO standard Z39.4 I wonder if it's possible to find a copy of NISO Z39.4-1994 online. The title is "Guidelines for Indexes and Related Information Retrieval Devices" and it's a 43p. draft. Any help is appreciated! Joan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 17:55:59 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kari Bero Subject: Re: NISO standard Z39.4 In-Reply-To: <199510032115.QAA14168@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu> Joan Giglierano asked about an online version of NISO Z39.4-1994, and thinking this would be an _excellent_ addition to the ASI Web Page, I grabbed the surf board and off I went. I didn't find that specific standard online, but here's what I found: 1.) NISO Press Catalog, with info about Z39.4-1995, but not the actual document. This was at http://www.faxon.com/Standards/NISOCat/NISOcatTOC.html 2.)The Faxon WWW Server has an excellent "what is NISO" page at: http://www.faxon.com/Standards/NISO_Fact_Sheet.html It includes NISO contact information, and the Press office info: Contact the NISO Press office at 1-800-282-NISO to request a free catalog of NISO publications. And info on NISO-L! NISO's electronic forum on the Internet. niso-l is an easy way to keep informed on news pertaining to NISO standards and activities. For details on how to access niso-l, contact the NISO office. Not the best answer to Joan's question, but useful info just the same. -Kari %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Kari J. Bero Bero-West Indexing Services 206-937-3673 3722 Beach Drive SW, Suite 101 bero@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu Seattle, WA 98116 http://alexia.lis.uiuc.edu/~bero/ %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 09:54:54 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: BALIPETZ@CNSVAX.ALBANY.EDU Subject: Re: NISO standard Z39.4 Perhaps it would help Joan to know a bit more about the NISO organization and the American National Standards Institute (ANSI) of which it is a part. Standards activity in the US is a voluntary activity and not a government, tax supported function. The cost of developing standards is borne pretty much entirely by the individuals and organizations that participate in each particular effort. The cost of publishing the standards that result is paid for by selling copies to libraries, organizations, even individuals. There can be no free access, as through the Internet, if no one wants to pay for the cost of publishing; NISO and ANSI would not be able to continue their good work. I would think that an academic library or large public library would be the best place to find a copy of a wanted NISO standard if you are not willing to buy one. Some libraries collect sets of current standards as a matter of policy; others will get standards when they know that clients are interested in them. B. A. Lipetz (SUNY at Albany) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 10:04:17 -0500 Reply-To: becohen@prairienet.org Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barbara E. Cohen" Subject: Re: Indexing: A Living or a Hobby? I would also recommend to beginning indexers serious about making a living wage to network, network, network with other indexers. This is your best way of getting steady work as fast as possible (although I stick to my statement in KEY WORDS several years ago) that it can take 1-2 years to get enough clients to make a full-time living as an indexer (if you have few contacts before you begin). ASI has several great publications for beginning indexers, and I would recommend making the trip to Denver next May for our national meeting. You will learn so much that will help you, and you will meet other indexers who are starting out, looking for starting indexers to give overflow work, or interested in having a trainee to work with. I second Lynn's comment about ASI's dues of $50 being one of the great bargains in professional memberships. You will learn whether or not indexing is for you fairly quickly from reading just about any issue of KEY WORDS, our wonderful newsletter! (Sorry that my first paragraph is ungrammatical... my editor on this mail system stinks!) Anyway, don't quit your day job until you know where your first paycheck is coming from. This is good advice for any new buesiness venture! Barbara -- Barbara E. Cohen Indexing & Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 10:04:16 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kate Subject: Re: NISO standard Z39.4 In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 4 Oct 1995 09:54:54 -0400 from Ben -- I think the person who was enquiring was looking for an electronic version of the draft standard on indexing. I know that NISO wants to charge something like $30 for the draft, but Jim Anderson did put the 3rd draft version on the net a year or more ago, and I suspect that this led to expectations that later drafts would also be available. See you at ASIS. You still owe me a beer. Kate McCain mccainkw@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 12:39:27 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kevin Subject: Indexing References Question: I made an error in judgement re scanning and updating of an existing index; one of the strongest reasons *not* to update an index not of your own creation. The authors "loved" the last index and I was told there were few changes; you know the drill; so I decided to have it scanned and then update/revise after page order grouping into chapters, etc. I should have suspected something was up when it turned out the subject index had only 700 records for a 630 page book. So it turns out the subject index is a textbook case of an indexer thinking classifying is the same as indexing. *Entire* chapters of 25-30 pages in length consist of a complex set of subs, sub-subs, and sub-sub-subs *all* under one or at most two main heads, with the actual "real" terms in the subs rarely if ever making it into the light of day as main headings. Even when the indexer chose to throw in a term, they invariably "hid" it in some way. For example: Competitive environment generic competition, 58 The index amounts essentially then to a breakdown of the chapter organization. The indexer did not "dip" into the text beyond this to any extent. Strangely it has a seemingly "exhaustive" author index; one in which in addition to indexing the author references in the material, the indexer covered the footnote and reference section at the back of the chapter. This of course results in an extra record for a given author's name (1 in the text and 1 in the reference section for the same reference!). In addition there are authors whose actual names did not appear in the text, only a reference. My normal procedure when doing a name index is to index only actual names when they appear in the text .... Jones and Smith observed that ......, and ignore the names (implicit) in sections like "this has been studied by others, see for example references 23-35 and 58". My first impression is to totally whack all the author references from the end of the chapters. Oh I forgot to mention this little point. The author was apparently one of those perfectionists who chose to add or subtract at least one word from every single sentence in the entire book (only a mild exaggeration). Many references were dropped. So wading into the reference sections at the end of each chapter would be a major pain. I am of course carefully checking matching of author references in the text itself and updating or deleting as necessary. Unfortunately I'm committed to doing the best I can with the index as it stands, and time as usual is very limited. I figure to maximize my time efficiency, I'll do the best I can with the subject index to see that important terms languishing as subheadings are split out, and add a fair amount of new material as warranted. Would I be justified in deleting all the references to authors in the back of the chapter? Thanks Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 14:16:01 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Subject: Western New York fall event Western New York ASI Fall Meeting and Workshop Sunday, October 22, 1995 Featuring Lori Lathrop "Editing an Index for Quality and Usability" This will be a hands-on workshop for indexers who want to know how to evaluate the usability, exhaustivity, and quality of an index. It emphasizes retrievability, consistency, and usability concepts. Participants will work in groups to evaluate sample indexes and suggest solutions to a variety of problems. Door Prizes!!: Cindex Demo and Levtech's Index/Check 9:00-10:00am Coffee 10:00-11:45am Morning Session 11:45am-1:00pm Lunch* and business meeting 1:00-2:45pm+ Afternoon Session *Lunch will be provided at a cost of $5.00/person, payable with your registration fee Please register early...space is limited. ----------------------------------------------------------------- -- WORKSHOP REGISTRATION FORM NAME:________________________________________ ADDRESS:_____________________________________ PHONE:_______________________________________ I wish to register for the workshop: ASI Member $25.00_____ Non-Member $30.00_____ Lunch: vegetarian___ Per Lunch $5.00_____ non-vegetarian___ TOTAL......_____ I would like a list of motels/hotels in the Syracuse area_____. Please print this form and mail (snail) with your check no later than October 17, 1995. Make your check payable to American Society of Indexers New York Chapter. Send to: Charlotte Skuster 16 Francis Avenue Norwich, NY 13815 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 17:07:49 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 17:58:33 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nan Badgett <76400.3351@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: Repackagers I've worked with a packager on a long-term basis doing indexing and other production work. I heard rumors that someone else had a problem with this particular company, but my experience has been very good. They even gave me a Christmas bonus although I am not an employee. Nan Badgett ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 17:42:30 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sue Evans Subject: ASI e-mail address? I want to contact ASI regarding membership, but which email address is correct or more appropriate? asi@well.sf.ca.us or asi@well.com Thanks, Sue Evans ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 17:09:50 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Biographies I've read all the info I have on indexing biographies and I still have questions. If anyone has ready access to Hazel Bell's discussions (mentioned in Nancy Mulvaney's book) I'd be most grateful to know about it. A quick tour of the bigraphy section of the library reveals two major schools of thought. One is to index a whole bunch under the name of the biographee. For example: Boothe, J. W. assassinations by, 223-244 childhood traumas of, 12-29 education of, 122-128 The other school of thought is that it's redundant to mention John's name. After all, the book *is* about him, isn't it? The entries become: assassinations, 223-244 childhood traumas, 12-29 education , 122-128 The added advantage is that if the indexer is limited to one level of subheadings, the above gives a little more leeway, e.g., education early, 12-15 late, 16-29 I welcome all opinions and apologize if this is a re-hash of a common topic. TIA, Craig Brown ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 17:05:07 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: Indexing References In a message dated 95-10-04 12:45:06 EDT, Kevin wrote: > I figure to maximize my time >efficiency, I'll do the best I can with the subject index to see that >important terms languishing as subheadings are split out, and add a fair >amount of new material as warranted. Would I be justified in deleting all >the references to authors in the back of the chapter? Kevin, Aiiish! What a nightmare project. It definitely sounds like you're taking the right approach with it, including deleting all of the references to authors in the back of the chapter. Best of luck with it! Lynn ****************************************************************************** ******* Lynn Moncrief visit the ASI Web page at: TECHindex & Docs http://www.well.com/user/ASI/ wildefire@aol.com wyldfire@ix.netcom.com watch this space for a TECHindex URL wildfire@earthlink.net "No person is so grand or wise or perfect as to be the master of another person." -- Karl Hess ****************************************************************************** ********* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 17:07:49 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sue Evans Subject: CINDEX or MACREX I hope I don't start a war, but I'd appreciate any comments, suggestions, recommendations, etc. regarding CINDEX vs. MACREX. I can only afford to buy one. Which one should it be? Do either of these packages have a Windows (3.x or 95') version in the works? Thanks, Sue Evans ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 08:15:38 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Neva J. Smith" Subject: Re: CINDEX or MACREX In-Reply-To: <199510051307.IAA28424@zoom.bga.com> Sue, Can you afford to buy both demo disks? The cost of the disk for the program you end up with should be deducted from the full cost. And you may be right about starting a war. I use CINDEX- it fits my thinking style. But I know many would die before leaving MACREX behind. The other possibility (if you have time) is going to a demo. Many chapters have demos at their meetings. Or ask for volunteers in your neighborhood to show you their copy of C or M. Neva > = - * - = < = > = - * - = < = > = - * - = < = > = - * - = < = Neva J. Smith, MLIS DataSmiths Information Services PO Box 2157 / Round Rock, TX 78680 email: njsmith@bga.com voice: (512) 244-2767 Editor, _Library Currents_ PO Box 2199 / Round Rock, TX 78680 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 11:01:20 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: CINDEX or MACREX For Sue and others who don't have dedicated indexing software and would like to see it in action, I would suggest attending the next ASI annual conference, May 16-18, in Denver. The representatives of both Macrex and Cindex are present and there are usually demos running on-site, as well as the reps to ask questions of. There may also be workshops available just prior to the conference (last I heard that was under discussion). Also remember - the skills needed to create an index can be learned *without* dedicated indexing software. The software is an aid to data entry and manipulation -- no more. It doesn't substitute for the indexer's thought processes. It's a productivity tool. (There was indexing long before computers!) Having said that, follow one step further and realize that a good index can be created by simply entering your data in a word processing program and alphabetizing, whether manually or using the program's features. If the final index is good, no one will be able to tell the difference in how you created the product! A Macrex or Cindex-generated index ends up as an ASCII file, or a word processing file of some kind, when it is sent to the publisher anyway. The Macrex or Cindex simply made the manual and/or repetitive features of your job (such as alphabetizing, page numbers in ascending order, flipping entries/subentries, etc). So I'd urge you to plan on acquiring the dedicated software, but realize that you don't need it to begin to learn indexing, or even to begin to index. Janet Perlman (jperlman@aol.com) Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 11:21:01 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: Biographies In a message dated 95-10-05 09:05:43 EDT, you write: > If anyone has ready access to Hazel Bell's discussions (mentioned >in Nancy Mulvaney's book) I'd be most grateful to know about it. You can order this from ASI. Contact them at ASI Administration Office P.O. Box 386 Port Aransas, TX 78373 512-749-4052 asi@well.com ||_____________________________________ Jan C. Wright Wright Information Indexing Services JanCW@aol.com http://www.pluggedin.org/wrightinfo.html _____________________________________ | ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 11:25:20 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kevin Subject: Re: CINDEX or MACREX Sue Evans asked: > I'd appreciate any comments, suggestions, >recommendations, etc. regarding CINDEX vs. MACREX. Sue, Linda Fetters wrote a booklet for ASI on choosing indexing software. I would assume it's still available from ASI. Asking indexers which is better is like arguing about the relative merits of PCs and Macs, or whether blondes have more fun or not. Read up, talk to a lot of people, attend local ASI chapter meetings and/or conferences, follow Index-l, then make the decision that's right for Sue. Either one you usually get a free party at every ASI conference. Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 12:08:04 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: - Judy Press Subject: Re: CINDEX or MACREX If you are a student in the USDA indexing course Macrex offers a $200 discount. Judy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 09:39:08 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Larry Harrison Subject: ASI Home Page Links The ASI page is getting linked into some good places on the net. >>How'd you like to check out the American Society of Indexers Home Page? A >>good resource for writers of non-fiction. >>http://www.well.com/user/asi/ >> >>Larry Harrison (larryh@millcomm.com) > >Many thanks Larry for the suggestion..will be included in the next >Volume of NBNSOFT (Writer's Resource's Category)..due at the beginning of >November. > >Best to you & have a good day! Liz >*********************************** >NBNSOFT- Your Net Encyclopedia: Email: designs@ix.netcom.com >Demo: http://www.tricky.com/liz.html -or- liz@kersur.net >SUBJECT: NBN (For Complete Info) > >Available "in an instant" at: http://software.net/prodmenu.htm?NET_DELIVERY >*********************************** >NBNSOFT Corporation >Liz W. Tompkins, President >Bellingham, MA **USA** >*********************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 10:24:32 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kari Bero Subject: Re: CINDEX or MACREX In-Reply-To: <199510051526.KAA08341@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu> I agree that you should definitely either purchase the demo disks from both CINDEX or MACREX, or at least visit colleagues and try playing with each software package before you actually invest in one. Reading about each and talking to indexers who use them is helpful, but don't base your entire decision on others' preferences. You will be using this software for a long time, and you should get a package that you will enjoy using. When I had narrowed my choices down to CINDEX and MACREX, I had pretty much decided which one I wanted to use. I purchased and played with it's demo for a few weeks. But when I got the other's demo and only played with it for a day before I changed my mind. The second one I tried just felt more comfortable and the interface seemed more logical. Lets face it, these programs do many of the same things. It really comes down to which _you_ like. Plain and simple. As Kevin said, "make the decision that is right for Sue". -Kari %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Kari J. Bero Bero-West Indexing Services 206-937-3673 3722 Beach Drive SW, Suite 101 bero@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu Seattle, WA 98116 http://alexia.lis.uiuc.edu/~bero/ %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 15:12:54 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: author names in notes (was: Indexing References) Kevin Mulrooney said: >My normal procedure when doing a name index is to index >only actual names when they appear in the text .... Jones and Smith observed >that ......, and ignore the names (implicit) in sections like "this has been >studied by others, see for example references 23-35 and 58". My first >impression is to totally whack all the author references from the end of the >chapters. But you do include those authors, I hope, if there is substantive discussion in the notes. Suppose, for example, note 58 says something like this: "Mulrooney, for example, had this to say," followed by a meaty quote by Mulrooney. I would index that. BTW, for philosophy books, you need to index the notes rather extensively. For one thing, a lot of the real philosophy takes place in the notes. I'm not making this up, and please don't ask me to justify it. For another, professional philosophers rely heavily on those citations in their research. So, for example, someone doing research on John Rawls will want to know *all* the passages Rawls cites from Mill's _On Liberty_. In general, I think it's a good idea to ask the person hiring you how the notes should be treated. Naturally, if you're expected to index the notes the "philosophy" way, you should be paid appropriately. I charge more for philosophy books than for most other things--partly because of those darn notes, and partly because I want to be paid for my expertise in that area. Sometimes I get the higher fee, and sometimes I have to pass and somebody else ends up with the book. So be it. I love editing and indexing philosophy books, but I'm not willing to go broke doing them. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | Life is good. Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | Milwaukee, WI | ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 18:58:34 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: WinHelp 95 keywording Windows Help keyword indexes can be combined in Windows 95 to display a single keyword index from more than one help file. Or at least the help documentation says it can. Has anyone actually done this? I would love to hear if it worked as you expected or if you had any problems with it. I've never seen a combined one in reality. Or virtuality. Whatever. Thanks Jan ||_____________________________________ Jan C. Wright Wright Information Indexing Services JanCW@aol.com http://www.pluggedin.org/wrightinfo.html _____________________________________ || ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 02:13:12 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Albert Cuesta Organization: Thesaurus Serveis Documentals Subject: CINDEX speed in Windows Has anyone else noticed that CINDEX runs MUCH slower under Windows? I have just discovered the above in response to claims from our two indexers about CINDEX's crippling performance with their current project. They must keep open two indexes, currently at +5000 and +8000 records. 'Find' operations were taking so much time that I had to investigate ways to streamline the process. My results?: running CINDEX from the DOS prompt, instead of in a DOS session under Windows, has consistently DOUBLED the search speed in each of our three available machines: an AMD 486DX4-100 w/16 MB, an i486DX33 w/8 MB and even a DOS-compatible Apple Performa including an i486DX2/66 board w/ 4 MB. The doubling of speed happens also with just one of the indexes loaded. I have not had the time to fiddle with Windows PIF (Program Information File) settings, but I strongly advise any CINDEX user against running the program under Windows. I plan to repeat my tests under other conditions, such as adding a big disk cache board, accessing NDX files over our NetWare LAN, and finally, upgrading to Windows 95. Meanwhile, I would appreciate comments from other CINDEX users about their experience. Regards from Barcelona Albert Cuesta Thesaurus Serveis Documentals (Barcelona) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 13:13:12 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Dr. Wiebke Moehr" Subject: unsubscribe Please unsubscribe Wiebke Moehr. Thank you. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 10:09:59 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PilarW@AOL.COM Subject: Re: CINDEX speed in Windows Albert, and other Cindex users- I'm surprised to hear about your slowness-with-Cindex problem. I routinely run Cindex through Windows, via a DOS icon, and do not have such problems (even while having multiple index files open including at least one >16,000 entries). Granted, finds are slower the bigger the file, but I really have no problems. Are you sure you have sufficient memory to run Windows comfortably? I have 8 meg and recently upgraded to 16, and find that Cindex runs fine. Also, how fast is your computer? Pilar Wyman Wyman Indexing Annapolis, MD ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 10:44:49 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: CINDEX speed in Windows I had a similar symptom, but Windows was not the cause. FIND operations were running *extremely* slowly. A FIND in a file of 2600 records was taking over 2 minutes. I tested it under both DOS and WIndows and there was no significant difference. It turned out that I had inadvertently pushed the Turbo button and the CPU was running in non-turbo mode at a fraction of its 66mghz speed. I now have duct tape over the Turbo button. Dick Evans ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 10:48:11 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kevin Subject: Re: CINDEX speed in Windows Albert Cuesta wrote: >Has anyone else noticed that CINDEX runs MUCH slower under Windows? > Yes Albert, I've noticed that too, but I wouldn't go so far as to recommend *not* running in Windows for "normal" projects. I would not use the word *much* slower either, although I've yet to put "Cindex under Windows" to the test. I have noticed sometimes a 1/2 second delay in applying one of the "alt" key shortcuts like alt-0 for repeat page reference, etc. The project you describe is *way* out of the normal practice of an indexer working on a *single* normal size book with perhaps ~ 1000-1500 records. It's a good idea though like you say to go into DOS for extreme tasks. Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 08:13:04 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Re: CINDEX speed in Windows In-Reply-To: <9510060611.AA20352@carson.u.washington.edu> Since I've had my 486 machine (after upgrading from a 286/12) I've never run CINDEX any way except under Windows, so would not notice a speed differential. However, I would NEVER give up the convenience of having Windows run in the background so that I can minimize Cindex without closing and go do other things in the middle - like get access to my Excel time sheet, run email, send or receive a fax, check records in my accounting software, or write a quick note in Word, or even play Solitaire when I need a break. The only time I'm really conscious of any slowness is in saves, printing, or reordering of a really large file, which I don't handle very often; for databases of <5,000 records, the main impact on speed is going to be in how fast records can be typed in, which has nothing to do with the operating system. (The only time my indexes have run over 10,000 records is when I'm merging records into a pre-existing very large database.) So while I appreciate the information and will keep it in mind the next time I'm dealing with a massive database, I'm still a confirmed Cindex-over-Windows user. Oh, yes -- I NEVER minimize Cindex without doing a Write backup first, just in case something happens (like a power outage or a cat hitting the power button on the surge suppressor!) before I get back to it. Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, Wa. e-mail: cweaver@u.washington.edu voice: 206/930-4348 On Fri, 6 Oct 1995, Albert Cuesta wrote: > Has anyone else noticed that CINDEX runs MUCH slower under Windows? > > I have just discovered the above in response to claims from our two indexers > about CINDEX's crippling performance with their current project. They must kee p > open two indexes, currently at +5000 and +8000 records. 'Find' operations were > taking so much time that I had to investigate ways to streamline the process. > > My results?: running CINDEX from the DOS prompt, instead of in a DOS session > under Windows, has consistently DOUBLED the search speed in each of our three > available machines: an AMD 486DX4-100 w/16 MB, an i486DX33 w/8 MB and even a > DOS-compatible Apple Performa including an i486DX2/66 board w/ 4 MB. The > doubling of speed happens also with just one of the indexes loaded. > > I have not had the time to fiddle with Windows PIF (Program Information File) > settings, but I strongly advise any CINDEX user against running the program > under Windows. > > I plan to repeat my tests under other conditions, such as adding a big disk > cache board, accessing NDX files over our NetWare LAN, and finally, upgrading to > Windows 95. Meanwhile, I would appreciate comments from other CINDEX users abo ut > their experience. > > Regards from Barcelona > > Albert Cuesta > > Thesaurus Serveis Documentals (Barcelona) > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 12:02:13 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Larry Harrison Subject: Index-L Usage Somehow, I feel the need to post this excerpt from the message "You are now subscribed to the list" that each new subscriber gets upon being added to Index-L. If you didn't save this message when you first subscribed, here's a second chance. Begin excerpt: -------------- Please save this message for future reference, especially if you are not familiar with LISTSERV. This might look like a waste of disk space now, but in 6 months you will be glad you saved this information when you realize that you cannot remember what are the lists you are subscribed to, or what is the command to leave the list to avoid filling up your mailbox while you are on vacations. In fact, you should create a new mail folder for subscription confirmation messages like this one, and for the "welcome messages" from the list owners that you are will occasionally receive after subscribing to a new list. To send a message to all the people currently subscribed to the list, just send mail to INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU. This is called "sending mail to the list", because you send mail to a single address and LISTSERV makes copies for all the people who have subscribed. This address (INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU) is also called the "list address". You must never try to send any command to that address, as it would be distributed to all the people who have subscribed. All commands must be sent to the "LISTSERV address", LISTSERV@BINGVMB.BITNET (or LISTSERV@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU). It is very important to understand the difference between the two, but fortunately it is not complicated. The LISTSERV address is like a FAX number, and the list address is like a normal phone line. If you make your FAX call someone's regular phone number by mistake, it will be an unpleasant experience for him but you will probably be excused the first time. If you do it regularly, however, he will probably get upset and send you a nasty complaint. It is the same with mailing lists, with the difference that you are calling hundreds or thousands of people at the same time, so a lot more people get annoyed if you use the wrong number. ......... More information on LISTSERV commands can be found in the LISTSERV reference card, which you can retrieve by sending an "INFO REFCARD" command to LISTSERV@BINGVMB.BITNET (or LISTSERV@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU). ---------- In other words, send a message to the LISTSERV (not the list) with the message body consisting of INFO REFCARD and you will get a condensed description of the commands supported by the LISTSERV. This includes different ways of having your posts acknowledged, getting a copy of your own post, and getting off Index-L. Have a nice day! Larry Harrison (larryh@millcomm.com) 507/280-0049 Freelance book indexing Rochester, Minnesota * Breathing OK today? Thank the plankton. Without healthy * * plankton in the oceans, there would be no life on Earth. * ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 12:36:13 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nan Badgett <76400.3351@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: Indexing: A Living or a Hobby? Bravo on Lynn Moncrief's response. After being self-employed, I will do almost anything to stay that way. And I certainly agree that learning how to run a business is as important as learning how to index. Nan Badgett Word-a-bil-i-ty ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 12:36:09 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nan Badgett <76400.3351@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Indexing References Personally, I would rather start from scratch than to redo the index that Kevin described. I don't think chapter backmatter is typically indexed -- what do others say? Nan Badgett Word-a-bil-i-ty ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 14:44:22 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Alison Chipman Subject: Hotels near Mass Chapter Fall Meeting I've registered for the Fall Conference of the Massachusetts Chapter of ASI, to be held at Simmons College in Boston. Being from out of town (Williamstown, Mass.) and utterly unfamiliar with Boston, I'm trying to find a hotel, motel, or B&B sufficiently near the conference site for me to get there by the 8 a.m. opening time without having to travel through the early morning darkness. If anyone can offer advice on this matter, please could they respond to me at my email address given below? Thanks very much in advance. Alison Chipman achipman@aat.getty.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 19:54:00 BST-1 Reply-To: hcalvert@cix.compulink.co.uk Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hilary Calvert Subject: classifying not indexing Kevin What worries me about what you say is that the authors "loved" the original index. Does this mean that the readers "loved" it too - and, following on from that, is a (to me, you and I should imagine almost everyone on Index-L) completely useless classified list (as you described it) what non-indexers think of as a useful and good index? I sincerely hope not! Drusilla ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:12:44 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: email address Does anyone know if Hans Wellisch has an email address? If so, could you send me a note with the address personally? Thanks. Jan ||_____________________________________ Jan C. Wright Wright Information Indexing Services JanCW@aol.com http://www.pluggedin.org/wrightinfo.html _____________________________________ | ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 18:17:54 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Gale Rhoades Subject: Re: Western New York fall event Charlotte: In a message dated 95-10-04 14:27:36 EDT, you write: >Door Prizes!!: Cindex Demo and Levtech's Index/Check The Macrex team would like to add an additional door prize if that would be acceptable. We offer each of the ASI groups a $50 gift certificate which may be used to purchase a demo or applied to a full version (in addition to any applicable discount). We've sent these to other groups and would like to do so in for your event. If this is acceptable, please let me have a shipping address. Also, would it be permissable to incude some Macrex brochures? Gale Rhoades Director Macrex Sales & Support Office ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 19:09:39 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Update on the Case of the Late Rabbi Hi all, I thought that since I got so much support from everyone you might like the epilogue to the begginner question I asked about dealing with a very late book just before my vacation. According to your nearly unanimous advice, I told the Rabbi I was going on vac. Oct. 17-29, and I must have the book by Sept. 15 or it would have to wait until after I got back. Meanwhile I was fortunate enough to be given an index job under the guidance of Marilyn Rowland (the mentor-apprentice thing is working great for me, BTW), with a very tight deadline of Oct. 13. So guess who called last night saying his page proofs are here. When I reminded him of what I had said, and told him of my other project, he got flustered thinking I had said I would be back by *Sept* 28. I reexplained. So now we have agreed that I will try to do the book before I leave (which will be totally impossible, thought it's only 175 pages, thank the Lord), but that it will just have to wait until after I return. He didn't really have many options at this point. What will the publisher have to say about this? Will they think it's my fault that it's late and therefore not want to give me work in future? Anyway, thanks again for everyone's support. Rachel Rachel Rice Martha's Vineyard Island rachelr@tiac.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 01:16:35 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Samantha Jerrings, President, International Students Association, Eastern Division" Subject: ===>> FREE 1 yr. Magazine Sub sent worldwide- 300+ Popular USA Titles Hi fellow 'netters, My name is Samantha Jerrings and I recently started using a magazine subscription club in the USA that has a FREE 1 yr. magazine subscription deal with your first paid order- and I have been very pleased with them. They have over 1,500 different USA titles that they can ship to any country on a subscription basis. As for computer magazines from the USA, they more of a selection than I ever knew even existed. They have magazines for most every area of interest in their list of 1,500 titles. At the bottom of this list is a list sampling of many of the titles that they sell. They can *all* be shipped to any country! Within the USA, for their USA members, they are cheaper than all their competitors and even the publishers themselves. This is their price guarantee. Overseas, on the average, they are generally around one-fourth to one-half of what the newstands overseas charge locally for USA magazines. On some titles they are as little as one-tenth of what the newstands charge. They feel that mgazines should not be a luxury overseas. In the USA, people buy magazines and then toss them after reading them for just a few minutes or hours. They are so cheap in the USA! Well, this company would like to make it the same way for their overseas members. They are also cheaper than all their competitors in the USA and overseas, including the publishers themselves! This is their price guarantee. Around one-half their business comes from overseas, so they are very patient with new members who only speak limited English as a 2nd language. Their prices are so cheap because they deal direct with each publisher and cut-out all the middlemen. They will send you their DELUXE EMAIL CATALOGUE (around 500K-big and juicey) !)...if you completely fill out the form below. It has lists of all the freebies, lists of all the titles they sell, titles broken down by categories and detailed descriptions on nearly 1,200 of the titles that they sell. Please do not email me as I am just a happy customer and a *busy* student. I don't have time to even complete my thesis in time, let alone run my part-time software business! Email them directly at: susie@ixc.net *------------cut here-----------------------------------------------* REQUEST FOR MORE INFO: please copy this section only and email to: susie@ixc.net Name: Internet email address: Smail home address: City-State-Zip: Country: Work Tel. #: Work Fax #: Home Tel. #: Home Fax #: Name of USA mags you currently get on the newstand or in the store: Name of USA mags you currently get on a subscription basis, through the mail: Name of USA mags you would like price quotes on when we call you: Catalogue format desired from below 2 choices (list "1" or "2"): (1. 19-part email message; 2. atttached file by email) {{{Note- 19-part email can be received by anyone with any computer. Attached file format may not be for you: it is sent as an uncompressed 500K file formatted in Microsoft World on a Mac; if you don't use Microsoft Word on a Mac - you will have to know how to convert into a usable text format. We cannot help you with this. If in doubt, we suggest you go with the universally acceptable 19-part email message. You can always manually spend a few minutes pasting the parts into one whole.}}} How did you hear about us (name of person who referred you or the area of the internet that you saw us mentioned in): Samantha Jerrings 100795 *------------cut here-----------------------------------------------* They guarantee to beat all their competitors' prices. Sometimes they are less than half of the next best deal I have been able to find and other times, just a little cheaper - but I have never found a lower rate yet. They assured me that if I ever do, they will beat it. They have been very helpful and helped me change my address from the USA to Finland and then back again when I moved last month. They are very knowledgeable about addressing mags worldwide. They have a deal where you can get a free 1 yr. sub to a new magazine from a special list of over 300 popular titles published in the USA. They will give you this free 1 yr. sub when you place your first paid order with them to a renewal or new subscription to any of the over 1,500 different popular USA titles they sell. They can arrange delivery to virtually any country and I think they have clients in around 35 or 36 countries now. Outside the USA there is a charge for foreign postage and handling (on both paid and freebie subs) that varies from magazine to magazine. I have found their staff to be very friendly and courteous. They even helped me with an address change when I moved from one country to another. The owner thinks of his service as a "club" and his clients as "members" (even though there is no extra fee to become a member - your first purchase automatically makes you a member) and he is real picky about who he accepts as a new member. When he sets you up as a new member, he himself calls you personally on the phone to explain how he works his deal, or sometimes he has one of his assistants call. He is kind of quirky sometimes - he insists on setting up new members by phone so he can say hi to everyone (I sure wouldn't want to have his phone bills!), but you can place future orders (after your first order) via E-mail. He has some really friendly young ladies working for him, who seem to know just as much as he does about this magazine stuff. If you live overseas, he will even call you there, as long as you are interested, but I think he still makes all his overseas calls on the weekends, I guess cause the long distance rates are cheaper then. He only likes to take new members from referrals from satisfied existing members and he does virtually no advertising. When I got set-up, they had a 2-3 week waiting list for new members to be called back so that they could join up. (Once you are an existing member, they help you immediately when you call. ) I think they are able to get back to prospective new members the same day or within a few days now, as they have increased their staff. I am not sure about this.........but if you email the above form to them, that is the way to get started! They will send you some FREE info. via E-mail (the short version (around 40K) of their catalogue, or if you request it the DELUXE LONG VERSION (around 400K-big and juicey) !)...if you fill out the form near the top of this message. They then send you email that outlines how his club works and the list of free choices that you can choose from, as well as the entire list of what he sells; and then they will give you a quick (3-5 minute) friendly, no-pressure no-obligation call to explain everything to you personally and answer all your questions. Once you get in, you'll love them. I do. For more info, just fill out the form near the top of this message and email it to: susie@ixc.net Sincerely, Samantha Jerrings ps. please forward a copy of this message to all your friends on the net who you think might be interested in it! It is a great deal! If you join and then they join after you, you will earn a free 1 yr. subscription for each new person you get to join after you join! pss. Below is a list of some of the titles they have available for shipment on a subscription basis to *all* countries: The following is a complete list of all the titles we sell as of 9/10/94: Note: 99% of them are available to *all* countries. ACCENT ACCENT ON LIVING ACCESSORIES ACTION COMICS ACTION PURSUIT GAMES ADIRONDACK LIFE ADVENTURE WEST ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN (COMIC) ADVERTISING AGE ADVOCATE AFRICAN PROFILES INTERNATIONAL AIR CLASSICS AIR COMBAT AIR FORCE TIMES AIR & SPACE ALASKA ALASKA MEN ALASKA OUTDOORS ALBUQUERQUE MONTHLY ALFRED HITCHCOCK MYSTERY ALLURE ALOHA AMATEUR RADIO TECHNICAL JOURNAL AMAZING SPIDERMAN (COMIC) AMERCAN HEALTH AMERICA'S CIVIL WAR AMERICAN ARTIST AMERICAN ASTROLOGY AMERICAN BABY AMERICAN BABY AMERICAN CAGE BIRD AMERICAN COLLECTOR'S JOURNAL AMERICAN COTTON GROWER AMERICAN COWBOY AMERICAN COWBOY AMERICAN DEMOGRAPHICS AMERICAN FORESTS AMERICAN FRUIT GROWER AMERICAN HANDGUNNER AMERICAN HEALTH AMERICAN HERITAGE (HARD COVER) AMERICAN HERITAGE INVENTION & TECHNOLOGY AMERICAN HERITAGE (SOFT COVER) AMERICAN HISTORY ILLUSTRATED AMERICAN JOURNAL OF MATERNAL / CHILD NURSING AMERICAN JOURNAL OF NURSING AMERICAN LIQUIDATION MONTHLY AMERICAN PHOTO AMERICAN SALON AMERICAN SPECTATOR AMERICAN SQUARE DANCE AMERICAN VEGETABLE GROWER AMERICAN VISIONS AMERICAN WOODWORKER AMERICANA AMERICAS (ENGLISH) AMERICAS (SPANISH) AMIGA WORLD ANALOG SCIENCE FICTION / FACT ANTIQUE TRADER WEEKLY ANTIQUES ANTIQUING AMERICA AQUARIUM FISH ARCHAEOLOGY ARCHITECTURAL DIGEST ARCHITECTURE ARIEL ARMY TIMES ART & ANTIQUES ART & ANTIQUES INVESTMENT REPORT ART IN AMERICA ARTIST'S MAGAZINE ARTNEWS ARTS & ACTIVITIES ASIAN SOURCES (COMPUTER PRODUCTS) ASIAN SOURCES (ELECTRONICS) ASIAN SOURCES (GIFTS & HOME) ASIAN SOURCES (HARDWARE) ASIMOV'S SCIENCE FICTION ASTROLOGY ATLANTA ATLANTA HOMES & LIFESTYLES ATLANTIC MONTHLY AUDIO AUDIO / VIDEO INTERIORS AUDUBON AUTO RACING DIGEST AUTOMOBILE AUTOMOTIVE NEWS AUTOMUNDO AUTOTRONICS AUTOWEEK AVENGERS (COMIC) AVENGERS WEST COAST (COMIC) AVIATION HERITAGE BACK STAGE BACKPACKER BACKSTRETCH BALTIMORE BANK NOTE REPORTER BARBIE (COMIC) BARBIE FASHION BOOK (COMIC) BARBIE MAGAZINE BARELY LEGAL BARTER NEWS BASEBALL CARD PRICE GUIDE BASEBALL CARDS MAGAZINE BASEBALL DIGEST BASEBALL WEEKLY (USA TODAY) BASKETBALL DIGEST BASKETBALL WEEKLY BASS PLAYER BASS & WALLEYE BOATS BASSIN' BATMAN (COMIC) BEAVIS & BUTTHEAD BERKSHIRE BEST RECIPES BETTER HOMES & GARDENS BEVERAGE WORLD BEVERAGE WORLD BIBLE REVIEW BIBLICAL ARCHAEOLOGY REVIEW BICYCLE GUIDE BICYCLING BIG BEAUTIFUL WOMAN (BBW) BIRD TALK BIRDER'S WORLD BLACK AXE (COMIC) BLACK BELT BLACK COLLEGIAN BLACK ELEGANCE BLACK ENTERPRISE BLOOD HORSE BLUE & GOLD ILLUSTRATED BOARDROOM REPORTS BOATING BOATING WORLD BODY - MIND - SPIRIT BON APPETIT BOSTON MAGAZINE BOTTOM LINE / PERSONAL BOW & ARROW BOW & ARROW HUNTING BOW HUNTING WORLD BOWHUNTER BOWHUNTING BOWHUNTING WORLD BOWLING DIGEST BOWMASTERS BOXING ILLUSTRATED BOY'S LIFE BRIDAL GUIDE BRIDES BRITISH CAR BRITISH HERITAGE BROADCASTING BUCKHUNTERS DIGEST BUENHOGAR BUSINESS PUBLISHING BUSINESS START-UPS BUSINESS WEEK BUZZ (TALK OF LOS ANGELES) BYTE CABLE (COMIC) CALIFORNIA JOURNAL CAMCORDER CAMERA & DARKROOM CAMPUS LIFE CANDY INDUSTRY CANOE CAPPER'S CAPTAIN AMERICA (COMIC) CAR AUDIO & ELECTRONICS CAR COLLECTOR & CAR CLASSICS CAR CRAFT CAR & DRIVER CAR STEREO REVIEW CARAS DE PUERTO RICO CARD COLLECTOR'S PRICE GUIDE CARIBBEAN TRAVEL & LIFE CARS & PARTS CASH SAVER CAT FANCY CATALOG SHOPPING CATHOLIC DIGEST CATHOLIC FAMILY BIBLE CATTLEMAN CATWOMAN (COMIC) CD REVIEW CD-ROM TODAY CD-ROM WORLD CENTRAL FLORIDA CAREER GUIDE (W/UPDATES) CHAMPION CROSSWORD PUZZLES CHAMPION VARIETY PUZZLES CHAMPION VARIETY REVIEW CHANGES CHARISMA & CHRISTIAN LIFE CHATELAINE (IN ENGLISH) CHATELAINE (IN FRENCH) CHESAPEAKE BAY CHEVY HIGH PERFORMANCE CHIC CHICAGO CHILD CHILD LIFE CHILDREN'S ALBUM CHILDREN'S CLASSICS CHILDREN'S DIGEST CHILDREN'S PLAYMATE CHOCOLATIER CHRISTIAN HISTORY CHRISTIAN PARENTING TODAY CHRISTIAN READER CHRISTIAN SCIENCE MONITOR CHRISTIANITY TODAY CIRCLE TRACK CIRCUS CIVIL WAR CHRONICLES CIVIL WAR TIMES CLASSIC AUTO RESTORER CLEVELAND MAGAZINE COACH COIFFURE DE PARIS COIN PRICES COIN WORLD COINAGE COINS MAGAZINE COLLECTOR EDITIONS COLLECTORS MART COLLECTORS NEWS COLLECTORS NEWS COLLEGE SPORTS COLONIAL HOMES COLORADO BUSINESS COLORADO HOMES & LIFESTYLES COLUMBIA JOURNALISM REVIEW COMIC BOOK COLLECTOR COMIC BOOK COLLECTOR'S PRICE GUIDE COMIC SCENE COMICS BUYERS GUIDE COMICS SCENE COMMON CAUSE COMMONWEAL COMPUTER GAME REVIEW & CD-ROM ENTERTAINMENT COMPUTER GAMING WORLD COMPUTER LIFE COMPUTER SHOPPER COMPUTERWORLD CONAN CLASSICS (COMIC) CONAN SAGA (COMIC) CONAN THE ADVENTURER (COMIC) CONDE NASTE TRAVELER *CONNECT-THE MODEM USERS RESOURCE* CONSUMER REPORTS CONSUMER REPORTS ON HEALTH CONSUMER REPORTS TRAVEL LETTER CONSUMER RESEARCH CONSUMERS DIGEST CONSUMERS RESEARCH CONTEMPORARY CHRISTIAN MUSIC COOK'S ILLUSTRATED COOKBOOK DIGEST COOKING LIGHT CORVETTE FEVER COSMOPOLITAN COSMOPOLITAN EN ESPANOL COUNTRY COUNTRY ACCENTS COUNTRY AMERICA COUNTRY FEVER COUNTRY GUIDE COUNTRY HANDCRAFTS COUNTRY HOME COUNTRY HOME FOLK CRAFTS COUNTRY JOURNAL COUNTRY JOURNAL COUNTRY LIVING COUNTRY MUSIC COUNTRY MUSIC CITY NEWS COUNTRY SAMPLER COUNTRY WOMAN CQ RADIO AMATEURS JOURNAL CRAFTING TODAY CRAFTS CRAFTS 'N THINGS CRAFTWORKS FOR THE HOME CRAIN'S NEW YORK BUSINESS CRAYOLA KIDS CREATIVE CLASSROOM CREATIVE KIDS CREATIVE QUILTING CREATIVE REAL ESTATE CREATIVE WOODWORKING & CRAFTS CRICKET CROCHET DIGEST CROCHET FANTASY CROCHET HOME CROCHET WORLD CROCHET WORLD SPECIALS CROSS COUNTRY SKIER CROSS STITCH CROSS STITCH PLUS CROSS STITCHER CROSSSTITCH & COUNTRY CRAFTS CRUISE TRAVEL CRUISE TRAVEL CRUISES & TOURS CRUISING WORLD CUSTOM & CLASSIC TRUCKS CUSTOMER ASSURANCE REPORT CUSTOMER SERVICE NEWSLETTER CYCLE WORLD DAILY NEWS RECORD DANCE DAREDEVIL (COMIC) DARKHAWK (COMIC) DAS LEBEN DATA BASED ADVISOR DAYTIME TV DBMS (DATABASE MANAGEMENT SYSTEMS) DEATH'S HEAD II (COMIC) DEBATE ISSUES DECORATING DIGEST DECORATIVE ARTIST'S WORKBOOK DECORATIVE ARTS PAINTING DECORATVE WOODCRAFTS DEER & DEER HUNTING DEFENSE NEWS DELAWARE TODAY DELL CROSSWORD PUZZLES DELL CROSSWORD SPECIAL DELL CROSSWORDS & VARIETY PUZZLES DELL HOROSCOPE DELL LOGIC PUZZLES DELL OFFICIAL CROSSWORD PUZZLES DELL OFFICIAL PENCIL PUZZLE & WORD GAMES DELL OFFICIAL WORD SEARCH PUZZLES DELL PENCIL PUZZLES & WORD GAMES DELL POCKET CROSSWORD PUZZLES DELL POCKET CROSSWORD PUZZLES DELL WORD SEARCH PUZZLES DES DESKTOP VIDEO WORLD DESSERTS DETAILS DETECTIVE COMICS DETROIT MONTHLY DIRT BIKE DISCIPLESHIP JOURNAL DISCOUNT STORE NEWS DISCOVER DISCOVER DIVING DISNEY ADVENTURES DISNEY'S HOW IT WORKS DISTRIBUTION CENTER MANAGEMENT DOG FANCY DOG WORLD DOLL CASTLE NEWS DOLL DESIGNS DOLL LIFE DOLL WORLD DOLLMAKING DOLLS DOOM 2099 (COMIC) DOWN EAST DOWN MEMORY LANE DOWNBEAT DR. DOBB'S JOURNAL DR. STRANGE (COMIC) DRUG & COSMETIC INDUSTRY EARLY AMERICAN LIFE EARLY CHILDHOOD NEWS EARLY CHILDHOOD TODAY EARTH EARTH JOURNAL EASY FAST "N FUN CROSSWORDS EATING WELL EBONY EBONY MAN (EM) ECONOMIST ECOTRAVELER ELECTRONIC GAMES ELECTRONIC GAMING MONTHLY ELECTRONIC LEARNING ELECTRONICS NOW ELITE MAGAZINE ELLE (AMERICAN) ELLE DECOR ELLERY QUEEN'S MYSTERY ELLERY QUEEN'S MYSTERY EM (EBONY MAN) EMERGE ENGINEERING NEWS RECORD (ENR) ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY (EW) ENTREE ENTREPRENEUR ENVIRONMENT EQUITIES EQUUS ESQUIRE ESSENCE EUROPEAN CAR EXCALIBUR (COMIC) EXCEPTIONAL PARENT EXECUTIVE FEMALE FAITH & STUFF FAMILY CIRCLE FAMILY HANDYMAN FAMILY LIFE FANCY FOOD & CANDY FANGORIA FANTASTIC FOUR (COMIC) FANTASY & SCIENCE FICTION FAR OUT FARM BUILDING NEWS FARM & RANCH LIVING FARMERS DIGEST FASHION GUIDE FASHION KNITTING FATE FEDERAL TIMES FEMALE BODYBUILDING FIELD & STREAM FIGHTING KNIVES FIGHTING STARS NINJA MAGAZINE FILM THREAT FINANCIAL TIMES OF LONDON (MON - SAT) FINANCIAL WORLD FINE GARDENING FINE HOMEBUILDING FINE WOODWORKING FIREHOUSE FISHING FACTS FISHING & HUNTING NEWS FISHING WORLD FIVE LITER MUSTANG FLARE FLASH (COMIC) FLEX FLOORING FLORIDA LIVING FLORIDA SPORTSMAN FLORIDA TREND FLORIDA VACATION RENTALS FLOWER & GARDEN FLY FISHERMAN FLY FISHING FLYING FLYING MODELS FOOD & WINE FOOTBALL DIGEST FOOTBALL NEWS FORBES FORCE WORKS (COMIC) FOREIGN AFFAIRS FOREIGN POLICY FORTUNE FORUM (PENTHOUSE) FOUR WHEEL / OFF ROAD FOUR WHEELER FRONT PAGE DETECTIVE FUN-ZONE FUR - FISH - GAME FUTURIFIC FUTURIFIC G.I. JOE (COMIC) GAME PLAYERS NINTENDO GUIDE GAME PLAYERS NINTENDO - SEGA GAME PLAYERS PC ENTERTAINMENT GAMEPRO GAMES GARBAGE GEMS & GEMNOLOGY GEMS & GEMNOLOGY GENTLEMEN'S QUARTERLY (GQ) GEOMUNDO GET RICH NEWS GHOST RIDER 2099 (COMIC) GHOST RIDER / BLAZE (COMIC) GHOST RIDER (COMIC) GIFTS & DECORATIVE ACCESSORIES GIFTWARE NEWS GLAMOUR GLASS DIGEST GLEANINGS IN BEE CULTURE GOD'S WORD TODAY GOLDMINE GOLF DIGEST GOLF FOR WOMEN GOLF MAGAZINE GOLF TIPS GOLF WEEK GOLF WORLD GOLFING GOOD DAY SUNSHINE GOOD HOUSEKEEPING GOOD OLD DAYS GOOD OLD DAYS SPECIALS GOURMET GREEN LANTERN (COMIC) GRIT GROO (COMIC) GROWING UP WITH SCIENCE GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY (COMIC) GUIDEPOSTS GUIDEPOSTS (LARGE PRINT EDITION) GUN DOG GUN LIST GUN WORLD GUNS GUNS & AMMO GUNS & AMMO HAIR ADDITIONS HAIR & BEAUTY NEWS HANDCRAFT ILLUSTRATED HANDGUNNING HANDGUNS HARPER'S BAZAAR HARPER'S BAZAAR EN ESPANOL HARPER'S MAGAZINE HARROWERS (COMIC) HARVARD BUSINESS REVIEW HAWAII HEALTH HELLSTORM (COMIC) HERALD TRIBUNE CROSSWORD PUZZLES ONLY HERALD TRIBUNE & OTHER CROSSWORD GAMES HERO ILLUSRATED HIGHLANDER HIGHLIGHTS HIGHLIGHTS HISPANIC HISTORIC PRESERVATION HOCKEY DIGEST HOCKEY NEWS HOLLYWOOD STUDIO HOLLYWOOD STUDIO MAG THEN & NOW HOMBRE DE MUNDO HOME COOKING HOME GYM & FITNESS HOME MAGAZINE HOME MAGAZINE HOME MECHANIX HOME OFFICE COMPUTING HONOLULU HOOKED IN CROCHET HORIZON HOROSCOPE HOROSCOPE/ A PERSONAL DAILY GUIDE FOR EVERYONE HOROSCOPE / DELL HORSE & HORSEMAN HORSE & HORSEMAN HORSE ILLUSTRATED HORSE & RIDER HORSEPLAY HORTICULTURE HOT BOAT HOT ROD HOT ROD HARLEYS HOUSE BEAUTIFUL HOUSTON METROPOLITAN HOUSTON PEOPLE HOUSTON PROFILES HOW HUDSON VALLEY HUMPTY DUMPTY HUNTING HUSTLER HUSTLER'S BUSTY BEAUTIES HUSTLER'S EROTIC VIDEO GUIDE HUSTLER'S FANTASIES HUSTLER'S HUMOR I LOVE CATS IDEAS IDEAS PARA SU HOGAR ILLUSTRATED BIBLE FOR CHILDREN IMPORT AUTO PARTS & ACCESSORIES IN BUSINESS IN-FISHERMAN INC. INCOME OPPORTUNITIES INCOME PLUS INCREDIBLE HULK (COMIC) INDIVIDUAL INVESTOR IINDUSTRIAL MARKET PLACE INSIDE EDGE INSIDE IRELAND INSIDE KARATE INSIDE KUNG FU INSIDE SPORTS INSIGHT INSTITUTIONAL INVESTOR INSTRUCTOR INTERIOR DECORATOR'S HANDBOOK INTERIOR DESIGN INTERIORS INTERNATIONAL LIVING INTERNATIONAL NURSING INDEX INTERNET WORLD INTERVIEW INTIMATE FASHION NEWS INVESTOR'S DAILY IRON MAN (COMIC) ISLANDS ISRAEL SCENE JACK & JILL JERSEY WOMAN JERUSALEM POST INTERNATIONAL WEEKLY EDITION JERUSALEM REPORT JET JEWISH EXPONENT JEWISH HOMEMAKER JEWISH POST & OPINION JEWISH PRESS JUSTICE LEAGUE AMERICA (COMIC) JUSTICE LEAGUE EUROPE ( COMIC) KARATE / KUNG FU ILLUSTATED KEYBOARD KID CITY KIDSPORTS KIPLINGER'S PERSONAL FINANCE KIT CAR KITPLANES KNIFE WORLD KNITTING DIGEST KNITTING WORLD L'ACTUALITE LA LUZ LA VIE LADIES HOME JOURNAL LADY'S CIRCLE LADYBUG LAKELAND BOATING LAN MAGAZINE (LOCAL AREA NETWORK) LAPIDARY JOURNAL LEADERSHIP LEARNING '94 LEFTHANDER LEGAL GUIDE FOR THE FAMILY LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES (COMIC) LET'S LIVE LIBRARY OF NATURAL WONDERS LIFE LIGHTING DIMENSIONS LINK-UP LINN'S STAMP NEWS LITTLE MERMAID LLUMO VOGUE LONGEVITY LOONEY TUNES (COMIC) LOOSE CHANGE LOS ANGELES LOTTERY PLAYERS MAGAZINE MAC HOME JOURNAL MACLEANS MACUSER MACWORLD MADEMOISELLE MARKETERS FORUM MARRIAGE PARTNERSHIP MARVEL AGE (COMIC) MARVEL COMICS PRESENTS MARVEL TALES SPIDERMAN (COMIC) MCCALL'S MCCALL'S NEEDLEWORK & CRAFTS MECANICA POPULAR MEDIA & METHODS MEDICAL & HEALTH ENCYCLOPEDIA MEDICAL HOTLINE MEDICAL UPDATE MEGA PLAY MEMPHIS MAGAZINE MEN'S CONFIDENTIAL MEN'S FITNESS MEN'S HEALTH MEN'S JOURNAL METROPOLIS METROPOLITAN HOME MICKEY MOUSE MICRO COMPUTER JOURNAL MICROSOFT SYSTEMS JOURNAL MID-ATLANTIC COUNTRY MIDSTREAM MIDWEST LIVING MILITARY HISTORY MILWAUKEE MINISTRIES TODAY MINNESOTA MONTHLY MIRABELLA MOBILE OFFICE MODEL AIRPLANE NEWS MODEL NEWS MODEL SHOPPER MODELS & TALENT/CASTING NEWS MODERN BRIDE MODERN GUN MODERN HORSE BREEDING MODERN SALON MOMENT MONEY MONEYPAPER MOODY MAGAZINE MOODY MONTHLY MOPAR MUSCLE MORIBUS (COMIC) MOTHER EARTH NEWS MOTHER JONES MOTHERING MOTOR BOATING & SAILING MOTOR TREND MOTORCROSS ACTION MOTORCYCLE CONSUMER NEWS MOTORCYCLIST MOTORHOME MOUNTAIN BIKE MOVIE MARKETPLACE MOVIELINE MUNDO 21 MUSCLE & FITNESS MUSCLECAR REVIEW MUSICIAN MUSTANG MONTHLY MUSTANGS & FORDS MUSTANGS MONTHLY NAILS NAMOR (COMIC) NATION NATION'S BUSINESS NATION'S RESTAURANT NEWS NATIONAL AUCTION REPORT NATIONAL ENQUIRER NATIONAL FISHERMAN NATIONAL LAW JOURNAL NATIONAL OTC STOCK JOURNAL NATIONAL PARK MAGAZINE NATIONAL REVIEW NATIONAL TRIAL LAWYER NATURAL HEALTH NATURAL HISTORY NAVY TIMES NBA INSIDE STUFF *THE NET* (about the Internet) NEEDLE & CRAFT NEVADA MAGAZINE NEW AGE JOURNAL NEW BUSINESS OPPORTUNITIES NEW CHOICES NEW ENGLAND JOURNAL OF MEDICINE NEW FARM NEW JERSEY MONTHLY NEW JERSEY OUTDOORS NEW MEXICO NEW REPUBLIC NEW TITANS (COMIC) NEW WARRIORS (COMIC) NEW WOMAN NEW YORK MAGAZINE NEW YORK REVIEW OF BOOKS NEW YORKER NEWSWEEK NICE & EASY FAMILY COOKBOOK NIGHT TRASHER (COMIC) NIGHT WATCH (COMIC) NO-TILL FARMER NORTH FLORIDA LIVING NORTH SHORE (CHICAGO) NOVA (COMIC) NUMISMATIC NEWS NURSING NUTRITION & DIETARY CONSULTANT NUTRITION HEALTH REVIEW OCCASIONAL BULLETIN OFF ROAD OFFICIAL CROSSWORD PUZZLES OFFICIAL DETECTIVE OFFICIAL MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL ROOKIE LEAGUE MAGAZINE FOR KIDS OFFICIAL PENCIL PUZZLES / WORD GAMES OFFICIAL US CUSTOM HOUSE GUIDE OFFICIAL WORD SEARCH PUZZLES OLD CARS NEWS & MARKETPLACE OLD CARS PRICE GUIDE OLD HOUSE JOURNAL OLD TIME CROCHET OMNI ONLINE ACCESS ONSAT OPEN WHEEL OPERA NEWS OPPORTUNITY MAGAZINE ORGANIC GARDENING OUTDOOR LIFE OUTDOOR PHOTOGRAPHER OUTDOOR PRESS OUTSIDE OVERDRIVE PACIFIC NORTHWEST PACK -O-FUN PADDLE SPORTS PADDLER PAINTWORKS PALM BEACH LIFE PALM SPRINGS LIFE PARENTING PARENTS PARENTS OF TEENAGERS PASSION PASSION FOR MEN PC COMPUTING PC GAMER PC GAMES PC KIDS PC LAPTOP PC MAGAZINE PC NOVICE PC TODAY PC WORLD PC WORLD LOTUS EDITION PC WORLD MULTI MEDIA EDITION PCM PENNSYLVANIA SPORTSMAN PENTHOUSE PENTHOUSE LETTERS PEOPLE PET DEALER PHILADELPHIA PHOENIX HOME & GARDEN PHOTOGRAPH COLLECTOR PHOTOGRAPHIC PINHEAD (COMIC) PLANE & PILOT PLASTIC CANVAS PLASTIC CANVAS & MORE PLASTIC CANVAS WORLD PLAYBOY PLAYGIRL PLAYTHINGS POCKET CROSSWORD PUZZLES POLO POPULAR COMMUNICATIONS POPULAR ELECTRONICS POPULAR HOT RODDING POPULAR MECHANICS POPULAR PHOTOGRAPHY POPULAR SCIENCE POPULAR WOODWORKING PORTABLE COMPUTING POST SCRIPT POST SCRIPTS: ESSAYS IN FILM & THE HUMANITIES POWDER POWER & MOTOR YACHT PRACTICAL HORSEMAN PREMIERE PRESENT TENSE PREVENTION PRIVATE PILOT PRO FOOTBALL WEEKLY PROGRESSIVE PROGRESSIVE FARMER PROTESTANT DELUXE BIBLE PROTESTANT FAMILY BIBLE PSYCHOLOGY TODAY PUBLISH PULSE PUNISHER 2099 (COMIC) PUNISHER (COMIC) PUNISHER WAR JOURNAL (COMIC) PUNISHER WAR ZONE (COMIC) QUASAR (COMIC) QUICK & EASY CRAFTS QUICK & EASY CROCHET QUICK & EASY NEEDLECRAFT QUICK & EASY PLASTIC CANVAS QUICK & EASY QUILTING QUILT WORLD QUILTER'S NEWSLETTER QUILTER'S TREASURY QUILTER'S TREASURY QUILTING INTERNATIONAL QUILTMAKER RAILROAD MODEL CRAFTSMAN RAPPAGES RAPPORT RAVAGE 2099 (COMIC) REAL PEOPLE REALTY MAGAZINE REDBOOK REMINISCE REN & STIMPY (COMIC) RETIREMENT INCOME NEWSLETTER RIDER RIGHT ON RIP ROAD RIDER ROAD & TRACK ROBB REPORT ROCK & GEM ROD & CUSTOM ROLLING STONE RUNNER'S WORLD RUNNING TIMES RURAL BUILDER S.W.A.T. SABERTOOTH CLASSICS (COMIC) SADDLE & BRIDE SAIL SAILING SAILING WORLD SALTWATER SPORTSMAN SAN DIEGO HOME & GARDEN SAN DIEGO MAGAZINE SAN FRANCISCO SASSY SATELLITE TV PRE-VUE SATELLITE TV WEEK SATURDAY EVENING POST SAVAGE SWORD OF CONAN (COMIC) SCHOLASTIC COACH SCHOOL & COLLEGE SCIENCE LIBRARY SCIENCE NEWS SCIENCE OF MIND SCIENCES SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN SCUBA DIVING SCUBA TIMES SEA MAGAZINE SECRET DEFENDERS (COMIC) SELF SESAME STREET SEVENTEEN SEVENTY-THREE AMATEUR RADIO SEW NEWS SEYBOLD REPORT ON DESKTOP PUBLISHING SHAPE SHOOTING TIMES SHOP TALK SHORT STORY INTERNATIONAL SHOW BIZ / CASTING NEWS SHOW BIZ NEWS/MODEL NEWS SHOWBOATS INTERNATIONAL SIDEKICKS SIDEKICKS SOCCER SILVER SABLE (COMIC) SILVER SURFER (COMIC) SIMPLY CROSS STITCH SKATEBOARDING SKI SKIING SKIN DIVER SKIN & INK SMITHSONIAN SNOW COUNTRY SNOW GOER SNOW WEEK SNOWBOARDING SNOWMOBILE SOAP OPERA DIGEST SOAP OPERA MAGAZINE SOAP OPERA STARS SOCCER AMERICA SOCCER DIGEST SOCCER INTERNATIONAL SOUNDINGS SOUTH FLORIDA SOUTHERN ACCENTS SOUTHERN BOATING SOUTHERN HOMES SOUTHERN LIVING SOUTHERN OUTDOORS SPACE NEWS SPECIAL EVENTS SPECIAL SITUATIONS REPORT SPECIALTY CAR SPECTACULAR SPIDERMAN (COMIC) SPIDERMAN 2099 (COMIC) SPIDERMAN CLASSIC (COMIC) SPIDERMAN (COMIC) SPIN SPORT SPORT DIVER SPORT FISHING SPORT RIDER SPORT TRUCK SPORTING CLASSICS SPORTING NEWS SPORTS AFIELD SPORTS CARD TRADER SPORTS COLLECTORS DIGEST SPORTS ILLUSTRATED SPORTS ILLUSTRATED FOR KIDS SPORTSWEAR INTERNATIONAL SPOTLIGHT STAR STAR TREK (COMIC) STAR TREK : THE NEXT GENERATION (COMIC) STARLOG STEREO REVIEW STITCH 'N SEW QUILTS STOCK CAR RACING STONE SOUP STORY STUDIO USA STYLE TRENDS SUCCESS SUCCESSFUL RETIREMENT SUNBONNET CRAFTS SUNSET SUPER CHEVY SUPER COMPUTING REVIEW SUPER CYCLE SUPER FORD SUPER NES BUYERS GUIDE SUPER STOCK & DRAG ILLUSTRATED SUPERCYCLE SUPERMAN - MAN OF STEEL (COMIC) SURFER SURFING SURPRISES SWAP USA SWAT T-SHIRT RETAILER TAMPA BAY CAREER GUIDE (WITH UPDATES) TASTE OF HOME TAX HOTLINE TCI TEACHING PRE K-8 TECHNOLOGY & LEARNING TEDDY BEAR REVIEW TEEN TEEN BEAT TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES (COMIC) TEK WORLD (COMIC) TENNIS TEXAS FISH & GAME TEXAS GARDENER THE SCIENCES THEATRE CRAFTS THEOLOGY TODAY THOR (COMIC) THREADS THREE-TWO-ONE CONTACT THUNDERSTRIKE (COMIC) TIME TODAY'S CATHOLIC TEACHER TODAY'S CHRISTIAN WOMAN TOLE WORLD TOTAL HEALTH TOURING AMERICA TOWN & COUNTRY TOY SHOP TRACK & FIELD NEWS TRADING CARDS TRADITIONAL HOME TRADITIONAL QUILTER TRAILER BOATS TRAILER LIFE TRANSFORMERS GENERATION 2 (COMIC) TRANSWORLD SKATEBOARDING TRAPPER & PREDATOR CALLER TRAVEL 50 & BEYOND TRAVEL AMERICA TRAVEL HOLIDAY TRAVEL & LEISURE TRAVELAMERICA TREASURE TRIATHLETE TRUE DETECTIVE TRUE STORY TU TURKEY & TURKEY HUNTING TURTLE TV CROSSWORDS TV HOST TV Y NOVELAS (PUERTO RICO) TV Y NOVELAS (USA) TWINS UNCANNY X-MEN (COMIC) UNDERWATER USA UNIQUE HAIR & BEAUTY UNIQUE HOMES US AVIATOR US CATHOLIC US MAGAZINE US NEWS & WORLD REPORT USA TODAY UTNE READER VACATIONS VANIDADES VANITY FAIR VARIATIONS (PENTHOUSE) VARIETY (WEEKLY) VEGETARIAN TIMES VEGGIE LIFE VERMONT LIFE VETTE VIBE VICTORIA VICTORIAN HOMES VIDEO GAMES & COMPUTER ENTERTAINMENT VIDEO MAGAZINE VIDEO REVIEW VIDEOMAKER VIETNAM VILLAGE VOICE VIRTUAL REALITY WORLD VIRTUE VOGUE VOLLEYBALL MAGAZINE VOLLEYBALL MONTHLY VOTRE BEAUTE W MAGAZINE WALKING WALL STREET REPORTS WALL STREET TRANSCRIPTS WALLEYE WAR MACHINE (COMIC) WARLOCK & INFINITY WATCH (COMIC) WASHINGTON POST NATIONAL WEEKLY WASHINGTONIAN WATER SCOOTER WATERCRAFT WORLD WATERSKI WEARABLE CRAFTS WEARABLE WONDERS WEB OF SPIDERMAN (COMIC) WEEKEND WOODCRAFTS WEEKEND WOODWORKING PROJECTS WEEKLY WORLD NEWS WEIGHT WATCHERS WESTERN FRUIT GROWER WESTERN HORSEMAN WESTERN LIVESTOCK JOURNAL WESTERN OUTDOORS WHAT IF WHAT'S NEW IN HOME ECONOMICS WHERE TO RETIRE WILD THING (COMIC) WILD WEST WILDBIRD WILDLIFE CONSERVATION WIN MAGAZINE WINDOWS WINDOWS SOURCES WINDSURFING WING & SHOT WINGS WEST WINNING BICYCLE RACING ILLUSTRATED WIRED WISCONSIN OUTDOOR JOURNAL WOLVERINE (COMIC) WOMAN'S CIRCLE WOMAN'S DAY WOMEN & GUNS WOMEN'S CIRCLE WOMEN'S CIRCLE CROCHET WOMEN'S CIRCLE HOME COOKIN WOMEN'S HOUSEHOLD CROCHET WOMEN'S HOUSEHOULD WOMEN'S SPORTS & FITNESS WOMEN'S WEAR DAILY WONDER MAN (COMIC) WONDER WOMAN (COMIC) WOOD WOOD STROKES WOODEN BOAT WOODSHOP NEWS WOODWORKER WOODWORKER PROJECTS & TECHNIQUES WORD WIZE WORKBASKET WORKBENCH WORKING MOTHER WORKING WOMAN WORLD COIN NEWS WORLD & I WORLD PRESS REVIEW WORLD WAR II WORLDVIEW WORTH WRITER'S DIGEST X-FACTOR (COMIC) X-FORCE (COMIC) X-MEN 2099 (COMIC) X-MEN ADVENTURES (COMIC) X-MEN BRAND NEW (COMIC) X-MEN CLASSICS (COMIC) X-MEN EARLY YEARS (COMIC) YACHT RACING/CRUISING YACHTING YANKEE YM (YOUNG & MODERN) YOGA JOURNAL YOUR MONEY YSB (YOUNG SISTERS & BROTHERS) ZILLIONS ZOO BOOKS ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 02:19:20 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kevin Subject: Index-L spammed by "Magazines" I can't believe it. Index-l got spammed. I'm referring of course to the "Magazines" thing. I couldn't believe it. They must have some list of available mailing lists, subscribe on and off, who knows. Then again maybe they're just an Index-l subscriber taken in by some scam. It had that mass-produced look. The Internet has finally infected Index-L. I'll just pretend it didn't happen if you will. Charlotte, is there some way to just automatically can a subscriber like this? Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 02:46:51 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: Index-L spammed by "Magazines" In a message dated 95-10-07 02:21:01 EDT, Kevin wrote: >I can't believe it. Index-l got spammed. I'm referring of course to the >"Magazines" thing. I couldn't believe it. > I'll just >pretend it didn't happen if you will. Kevin, I'm not pretending it didn't happen. I'm copying the line where she said to not respond to her and dashing off a message to her, along with the file she sent. If others do the same, filling her mailbox with angry messages, maybe she'll think twice before spamming again. Another option is contacting her service provider. I was more than ticked when I was paying online time for her garbage to download at 14.4K. I hope she's running at 2400 because I copied it into the message a few times. >;-} Lynn ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 07:45:11 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Re: Index-L spammed by "Magazines" In-Reply-To: <9510070934.AA14727@symnet.net> I've received this "Magazines" message at least twice before, and I've had enough! I've sent the message directly back to the "thoughtful" person who spammed us all with it. Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@symnet.net) "Great philosophers do not finish; they die."--David Cummiskey