Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 20:44:36 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9610A" To: Julius Ariail ================================================================= ======== Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:57:52 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Rocky Mountain Indexing Conference Forwarding message from Ingrid Becher, Secretary, Colorado Chapter, American Society of Indexers: --------------- Forwarded Message --------------- Second Annual Rocky Mountain Indexing Conference Boulder Public Library Main Branch, Boulder, Colorado October 12, 1996 - 9:00 am to 5:00 pm SPANNING THE NATION FOR INDEXING EXPERTISE Please join us for the Second Annual Rocky Mountain Indexing Conference on October 12 at the Boulder Public Library Main Branch in Boulder, Colorado. Our featured speakers will be Barbara Cohen from Champaign, Illinois; Susan Klement fromTucson, Arizona; and Ann Blum from Westborough, Massachusetts. All three of our speakers were here in Colorado for the Annual Conference of the American Society of Indexers in May and enjoyed themselves so much then that they were all anxious to return to be with us for our fall conference. A number of you met Barbara, Susan, and Ann at that time and no doubt will enjoy renewing your acquaintances with them this fall at what will be surely a less hectic gathering of indexers. OUR SESSIONS Barbara Cohen will begin our conference day with a presentation entitled "Intellectual Analysis in Indexing" in which she will discuss how to establish critical standards for indexes, how to determine what is indexable in the text, and how to develop a set of rules before starting each indexing project, including ideas on thesaurus building and vocabulary control. Barbara has tailored her presentation to reach indexers of all levels and abilities. After a short break, we will divide into small groups to complete an hours' worth of hands-on exercises under Barbara's tutelage. Following lunch, Susan Klement will speak on "Open-System Indexing." Susan will first help us understand the differences between open-system indexes (ongoing projects, journals, newspapers) as opposed to closed-system indexes (back-of-the-book indexing). Then she will give us pointers on how to go about marketing ourselves as open system indexers and how to find open-system projects, indexing opportunities, she contends, that while often difficult to pinpoint are of almost unlimited potential. Ann Blum will speak to us following our afternoon break. We are most fortunate to have Ann join us for our conference. Currently the President of the American Society of Indexers, she will spend a few minutes giving us an update on what is happening with ASI at the national level. Following this she will talk for an hour or so on "Indexing with Efficiency." Given her hectic schedule these days, this is no doubt an area in which she has developed some level of expertise. Ann will show us how to cut corners, save time without cutting quality in our indexing work. OUR SPEAKERS Barbara Cohen, "Intellectual Analysis in Indexing" Concurrently Secretary of the American Society of Indexers and its Publicity Coordinator, Barbara has been a freelance copy editor and professional indexer since 1984, specializing in back-of-the-bookindexing and cumulative indexing of periodicals in the social sciences and the humanities. In 1991 she began training other indexers. Before finding her niche as an indexer, Barbara pursued a career as an archaeologist. Susan Klement, "Open-System Indexing" After earning a degree in library science, Susan operated her firm, Information Resources,in Toronto from 1969 to 1991, when she moved to Tucson, Arizona. She has taught several courses in indexing to both Canadian and U.S. audiences. Susan was codirector of a project to index provincial statutes, indexed the Canadian Bank Act and several other complex monographs, and has indexed newspapers and business periodicals for many years. In addition to indexing, Susan creates and sells bead jewelry. Ann Blum, "ASI Update"/"Indexing with Efficiency" After a number of years of service to the indexing community, Ann is now the President of the American Society of Indexers. She also keeps active in the Massachusetts Chapter of ASI and is currently its Treasurer. When not engaged in her national duties, Ann runs a freelance indexing service from her home in Westborough, Massachusetts, specializing in medical indexing. SCHEDULE 8:30 - 9:00 Registration 9:00 -10:45 Barbara Cohen "Intellectual Analysis in Indexing" (lecture) 10:45 -11:00 Morning Break 11:00 - 12:00 Barbara Cohen "Intellectual Analysis in Indexing" (exercises) 12:00 - 1:30 Lunch Break 1:30 - 3:30 Susan Klement "Open-System and Closed-System Indexing" 3:30 - 3:45 Afternoon Break 3:45 - 5:00 Ann Blum "ASI Update"/"Indexing with Efficiency" CONFERENCE DAY PARTICULARS Those who register for the Second Annual Rocky Mountain Indexing Conference prior to October 1st will receive a confirmation by mail that will include a map on how to reach the Boulder Public Library and where to park. Refreshments will be provided during the morning and afternoon breaks but you are on your own for lunch. The library is located three blocks from the Pearl Street Mall, site of a variety of lunchtime options, or there are anumber of restaurants within driving distance of the library. Leaving your library parking space at lunch, however, is not recommended as this particular Saturday is, unfortunately for us, a home date for the University of Colorado football team, and parking around Boulder is at a premium especially during the afternoon hours. So find a small group to join for lunch on the mall or bring a lunch and share an hour on the library lawn with a colleague or two. Conference Fees ASI Members NonMembers By October 1 $40.00 $45.00 By October 11 $50.00 $55.00 Day of conference $60.00 $60.00 Registration Form Name______________________________________________ Company___________________________________________ Address___________________________________________ City/State/Zip____________________________________ Telephone_________________________________________ Please return this form and payment to Ingrid Becher, 1701 Bluebell Avenue, Boulder, CO 80302. For Further Information Please Contact Douglas J. Easton, Chair, Colorado Chapter of ASI, (970)282-9294, Ingrid Becher, Secretary, Colorado Chapter of ASI, (303)449-1188 or ihbecher@aol.com ================================================================= ======== Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 07:58:25 GMT+2 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: NORTH@LIBARTS.UP.AC.ZA Organization: University of Pretoria Subject: unsubscribe Unsubscribe north ================================================================= ======== Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 07:11:16 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Cynthia D. Bertelsen" Subject: Thanks Re: Ergonomic chairs? Thank you to everyone who has responded to my question on ergonomic chairs. I appreciate your taking time to share your experiences with all of us. I also appreciate the information from everyone on the eyes question, too. No one ever told me about the eye problems you would suffer as you got older! I must add that I agree with people who stated that one pair of glasses does not do the trick. I cannot use my bifocals at all at the computer, so I use my reading glasses (entire lens is bifocal prescription). This is not the greatest solution but it's the best I have found for the moment. I am also getting a book stand for copy, so hopefully that will help. The height of the monitor IS important, so right now I have Arnason's History of Modern Art holding things up. ************ Cynthia D. Bertelsen INDEXER Blacksburg, VA cbertel@nrv.net http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ================================================================= ======== Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 08:27:25 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Touchpad I wanted to thank all of you who wrote in to Index-L and to me privately about the wonders of the touchpad. Must be karma: I was doing a lot of "mousing" yesterday, and my back hurt so badly, that I couldn't fall asleep last evening. (Short mouse cord and uncomfortableness of mousing, in general; at least for me.) And when I finally did, I kept waking up in pain. And this morning, I am STIFF. So, armed with all your info, I phoned my local Walmart, which is open 24 hours a day (wish that'd occurred to me in the middle of the night!), and lo! the store carries a Glidepoint touchpad, which they've just reduced in price by $30! I am going to be hauling my aching back on over to the store to buy this wonderful invention. Thank you, one and all, for saving my back. What a terrific list this is! Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net) "I can't believe that we are going to let a majority of the people decide what is best for this state."--Rep. John Travis, D-Jackson, Louisiana ================================================================= ======== Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 09:00:24 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nicole Vallecillo Subject: unsubscribe Unsubscribe ara1#chelsea.ios.com ================================================================= ======== Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 10:04:08 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown <104571.560@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: copyediting mailing list Angela Howard asked for the copyediting mailing list. The address is The message content to send is: SUBSCRIBE COPYEDITING-L Since this is a fairly active list, the default setting is DIGEST. Cheers, Craig Brown The Last Word ================================================================= ======== Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:44:59 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LBINDEX@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Ergonomic Eyes On my 40th birthday, my eyes went out of focus. For computer use, my solution was to ask for lenses that are all "bottoms." That is, I wear normal bifocals for all daily activities, except reading and computer time, but change to the prescription for only the bottom half of the bifocals for reading and computer time. Having a strong focus across the whole lens eliminates the need for my eyes to readjust. These also have a slight magnification. I also tried light tinting to reduce glare, but decided any benefits weren't worth the cost. Lee Brower lbindex@aol.com 970 663-6833 Lovely day in Loveland, Colorado ================================================================= ======== Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 10:27:55 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Re: Touchpad In-Reply-To: <199609302306.QAA25759@mx5.u.washington.edu> One caution about touchpads: I bought a Glidepoint from Computer City for use with my notebook computer in the interest of minimizing the amount of space needed for mousing around (since I detest trackballs and get pains using the built-in eraserhead pointer for an extended period of time). I found it reasonably easy to use; but after long stretches of drag-and-drop operations (like playing solitaire) there are definite hand cramps if you routinely operate the buttons and the pointer with the same hand. When I got the touchpad I fully intended to use it with my desktop work station as well as the notebook; but I still find the mouse (especially the Microsoft model with the thumb indent) much more user-friendly than the touchpad. Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, Wa. e-mail: cweaver@u.washington.edu voice: 206/930-4348 ================================================================= ======== Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 13:45:02 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Termurray@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Touchpad In a message dated 96-10-01 08:43:31 EDT, you quoted: >"I can't believe that we are going to let a majority of the people decide >what is best for this state."--Rep. John Travis, D-Jackson, Louisiana Hazel, you come up with the best stuff! When and where did he say this gem? ================================================================= ======== Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 10:51:51 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Re: Ergonomic Eyes In-Reply-To: <199609302250.PAA24020@mx5.u.washington.edu> I tried the no-line bifocals with my last prescription change for about two weeks and absolutely could NOT adjust to them. The direct field of vision is quite narrow, and everything to the side blurs out. They made me quite nauseous. So thanks to a satisfaction guarantee from my optometrist, I'm now back to my standard bifocals at no additional charge. (Am seriously considering getting a separate pair of computer-use glasses, however.) Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, Wa. e-mail: cweaver@u.washington.edu voice: 206/930-4348 On Mon, 30 Sep 1996 Wildefire@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 96-09-29 11:39:32 EDT, Sally wrote: > > > After the very helpful discussions of keyboards, chairs, and pointers, I > > wonder what your experience has been with eyeglasses specially chosen for > > working at a computer monitor. I have variously heard of special lenses > > (something to do with the flicker), adjusting the focal length to just > > slightly longer than the screen distance, and using "varilux" (sp?) > lenses. > > Needing new glasses soon, I'd appreciate hearing about others experiences > or > > knowledge of breakthroughs on this rather critical ergonomic subject. > > Hi Sally, > > When I got my last eye exam and prescription (wayyy too long ago), I asked > the optometrist if the distance portion of my biofocals (no line) was good > for working at the computer. (She insisted that I needed bifocals for > distance because, according to her I wasn't driving legally without glasses, > though I could see important things like cars, people, lights, etc. just > fine. And, drat!... now I've become dependent on the blasted things for > everything!) She told me yes and they did work for a while, except that it > was difficult to read the copy on my copystand, having to look through the > bottom portion of the bifocals. So, I switched to using my single-vision > reading glasses (the same Rx as the bottom part of my bifocals). > Unfortunately, my eyes eventually also became dependent on using my reading > glasses for seeing the screen and even that was becoming a problem until I > went from a 15-inch to a 17-inch monitor. > > A big help, in terms of visual ergonomics, is having a copystand that clamps > to the desk and has an extremely adjustable arm. That way, you can get your > copy positioned so that your eyes don't have to keep changing focus when they > go between the screen and the monitor. Yet another help is the fact that my > monitor is under the window, so I don't get much glare on the screen even > when the morning sun shines into my office. I also have a lamp clamped to my > computer desk on a long arm that I can position right over the page proofs > yet away from the screen. All of these little things help enormously. > > BTW, has anyone had any success with those multi-focal contact lenses that > automatically focus wherever you're looking? I've been thinking about getting > those because when I do try to read through the bottom portion of my > bifocals, my eyes quickly become extremely tired. (Plus, I hate having to > keep track of multiple pairs of glasses.) > > Lynn Moncrief > TECHindex & Docs > Technical and Scientific Indexing > ================================================================= ======== Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 14:29:40 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Thanks Re: Ergonomic chairs? In a message dated 96-10-01 07:12:40 EDT, Cynthia wrote: > The height of the monitor IS important, so right now I have Arnason's > History of Modern Art holding things up. Cynthia, Forgive me if I misunderstood you here. You're not *raising* your monitor height with your modern art tome, are you? Please take it from me who has an injury to C5/C6 in my neck from looking *up* at a monitor--your monitor should be no higher than eye level and, preferably, somewhat lower. When you look up, you're compressing the disk between those two vertebrae and when you're compressing the disk you're compressing the nerves that emerge from the spinal cord there and eventually ennervate (innervate?) your arms, leading to many problems. Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing ================================================================= ======== Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 14:29:45 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@AOL.COM Subject: Macros vs. mousing--long (was Re: Touchpad) In a message dated 96-10-01 08:43:31 EDT, you write: > I wanted to thank all of you who wrote in to Index-L and to me privately > about the wonders of the touchpad. Must be karma: I was doing a lot of > "mousing" yesterday, and my back hurt so badly, that I couldn't fall > asleep last evening. (Short mouse cord and uncomfortableness of mousing, > in general; at least for me.) And when I finally did, I kept waking up in > pain. And this morning, I am STIFF. Hazel, Ouch! I'm really sorry to hear about your mouse karma! Were you formatting an index in a Windows word processor when you were doing all that mousing around? If so, here's a tip for everyone who delivers word-processed indexes. Now, this takes time to set up, in fact it can be a royal pain, and it means getting really down and dirty with your word processor. But once you create it, it'll save you huge amounts of time and agony from using the mouse, BTW). Create a macro in your word processor that'll do all of the formatting for you. A macro can format your entire index in seconds vs. an hour or so messing around with the mouse. Here's how I created mine. (I use Word for Windows, but I'll try to describe this as generically as possible to fit whatever word processor you're using.) I have Macrex create an .RTF file for each of my indexes. Before creating the macro, take an old index and dump it as an .RTF file. Open the .RTF file in your word processor. Create paragraph styles for all of your index heading levels in whatever document template you use for indexes. My styles go down to subsubsubentries, which covers all of the indexes I've ever done. If you index scholarly works that go wayyyy down in subentry levels, you may need to create even more of them so your macro will cover all of your indexes. Styles are important to this, BTW, so this is a good time to learn how to use them if you've spent years avoiding using them. ;-D You can also specify character formatting for each of your styles which can come in handy if you're creating a macro for a specific client who you do a lot of work for who wants something unique like boldface or all caps for main headings. (However it's probably best to specify these types of things in Macrex's ReStyle utility, keeping your macro for use with all of your clients). Be sure to save your styles to whatever document template you use for your indexes. I find paragraph styles are much easier to manage than manually formatting each heading level because you can base one style on another so that major changes will propagate through all of them. Creating them so that they indent and wrap correctly can be a bear. But the tedium and frustration will really be worth it in the end. (I go through all of this so that the index will come out photo-ready and pretty, which is handy for creating sample indexes to send to potential clients.) Start your word processor's macro recorder. Now, from here on in, use the keyboard equivalents for all the actions (opening menus, navigating dialog boxes, etc.) you'll perform, as mouse movements do not always record accurately. Yes, this time-consuming as you'll have to use Alt+ and Ctrl+ combinations for everything! Create a new document in the template containing the paragraph styles you created. Select/highlight the entire .RTF file (after windowing to it) and copy/paste it into the new document. Stay in this new document while recording the macro. This protects the .RTF file for immediate reuse (without having Macrex regenerate it) in case something goes wrong in recording the macro--and it will, trust me. Set up the margins you'll want to use. (I asked a client the dimensions of the image/text area they use to set up my margins. This makes the macro also useful as a quick check on whether you're staying within they're specs for pages allotted for the index.) Select/highlight the entire document. Specify the number of columns (I use two) and character formatting attributes you want (font and font size) if you didn't specify them in your styles. Do a global search/replace on the *lowest* level entries in your .RTF file copy by using either the tabs or ("%tab" strings) that Macrex indented them with as the search string. It's best to actually copy/paste these strings into the search part of the dialog box to ensure accuracy, including any spaces immediately preceding the actual text. (Set your search/replace to search the entire document, otherwise you'll have to move the cursor to the beginning of the entire document before each s/r operation.) You'll replace the entire search string with a null string ("nothing") to delete these characters. (Your paragraph style will properly indent your heading levels for you.) In the very same search/replace operation, apply your lowest level index heading style. BTW, when you actually use the macro on an index that may not contain the lowest heading style, there won't be a problem. The search/replace operation simply won't find the search string in the document and the macro will simply move on to the next step without aborting. Do not go from highest to lowest level because it will delete some of the search characters you'll need from lower levels and really mess things up. (Been there... done that.) Repeat the same process for each heading level going upward to (and including) the main heading style level. Stop the macro recorder. You can use the mouse now if you wish. Get rid of the document you created while recording the macro. Window to the document window containing the .RTF file (if it isn't on the screen) and run the macro. This is where you can see if your macro has any bugs (quite likely) and if you need to create it all over again until you get it the way you want it. Hint: If you have room on your menu bar, you can define a menu for macros. This saves searching through a lot of menus and dialog boxes whenever you want to run one. When defining a macro (before starting the macro recorder), be sure to give it a menu item name and add it to that menu. (Also make sure that it's globally available or at least available to your word processor's default template where you're likely to be when you launch your word processor.) That way it's readily accessible. If you assign an accelerator key combination to the menu and one to each macro menu item, you won't even have to use the mouse to open the menu and launch the macro. :-) When doing really mouse-intensive work, like working in FrameMaker and WinWord, I use accelerator keys for everything I can. So, if you don't know them already, memorize the key combinations for the Windows (or Mac) interface and your GUI-based applications--at least for clipboard copy/paste/cut operations. Not only will it save your shoulder and wrist from mouse-related pain but will also save time as your fingers will rarely leave the keyboard. Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing ================================================================= ======== Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 16:19:11 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Cynthia L. Peterson" Subject: Re: Thanks Re: Ergonomic chairs? In-Reply-To: <9610011954.AA54545@medcat.library.swmed.edu> (I'm a different Cynthia replying by the way) > Forgive me if I misunderstood you here. You're not *raising* your monitor > height with your modern art tome, are you? Please take it from me who has an > injury to C5/C6 in my neck from looking *up* at a monitor--your monitor > should be no higher than eye level and, preferably, somewhat lower. Actually, some people, including myself, have a condition where looking down actually is detrimental. All necks have some curve to it -- except mine (and my mother's and both of my sister's). As a result, anything that curves my neck forward and down aggravates it. I was told by my chiropractor and orthopedist that I need to have the monitor eye level or slightly higher, so that my neck goes back. I was also told to keep my keyboard where my arms were at a 90 degree angle or higher, not lowered. However, this is my own unique problem. Which is probably what most of us should do. All of us have slightly different makeups, which is why one chair is fine for this person, while another person is in agony with it.. why some monitors, should be raised, others lowered (I have one friend with different sorts of neck and back problems who has to look at those monitors recessed into the desk itself)... why some are fine with wrist rests while with others it aggravates a condition. If you have a doctor who can give you some reliable information it might help to talk with him/her and ask what they might recommend for your own personal ergonomics. Cynthia Peterson, Assistant Manager Database Development & Control U.T. Southwestern Medical Center Library Voice:(214) 648-3906 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. FAX:(214) 648-3981 Dallas, Texas 75235-9049 peterson@medcat.library.swmed.edu ================================================================= ======== Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 17:41:22 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Helen Schinske Subject: chat re hyphens, ems, ens ---- I had an interesting experience with hyphens et al. recently. Some of you may remember that I am volunteering for the Victorian Women Writers Project, keyboarding the text of a novel by Charlotte M. Yonge for distribution on the Web. The coordinator of the project wrote to me about certain codes he wanted embedded in the text, including things like "—" "–" "‐" and so forth. I wrote back something like "Perry, I understand about ems and ens -- but *hyphens*? Isn't the thing on the keyboard a real hyphen? I know it isn't an en dash, but I *did* think it was really and truly a hyphen." He says that he copied the specs from another online document and doesn't know why there is a special code for a hyphen. I don't care, as search-and-replace takes care of the special codes very quickly, but it amused me. Does anyone else know more about this particular code? Helen HSchinske@aol.com ================================================================= ======== Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 20:25:36 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Touchpad, again Well, a touchpad in Tallahassee is about as rare as snow in Sarasota. Walmart was indeed the only place that had 'em, and only the teeny ones for laptops. But I bought one, anyway. I'm still pretty klutzy using it, but I can't *believe* how much more pleasant this is for me than is a mouse. (I'm a touch typist, BTW, and I *hate* pointing and clicking. I've only reluctantly caved in to mousedom.) Using this touchpad is almost . . . sensuous. Hey, folks, what can I tell ya: It's been a looooooong day. Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net) "I can't believe that we are going to let a majority of the people decide what is best for this state."--Rep. John Travis, D-Jackson, Louisiana ================================================================= ======== Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 20:32:41 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Thanks Re: Ergonomic chairs? In a message dated 96-10-01 19:15:57 EDT, Cynthia (Peterson) wrote: > Actually, some people, including myself, have a condition where looking > down actually is detrimental. All necks have some curve to it -- except > mine (and my mother's and both of my sister's). As a result, anything > that curves my neck forward and down aggravates it. I was told by my > chiropractor and orthopedist that I need to have the monitor eye level or > slightly higher, so that my neck goes back. I was also told to keep my > keyboard where my arms were at a 90 degree angle or higher, not lowered. > However, this is my own unique problem. Cynthia (and everyone), My deepest apologies for giving bad info!!!!!! And, while I'm at it, I'm sorry about all of the errors in my macro post (misspellings, omitted words, etc.) which I didn't catch before posting it. I think I'll be quiet for the rest of the day. :-) Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing ================================================================= ======== Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 23:28:14 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Daveream@AOL.COM Subject: Re: chat re hyphens, ems, ens ---- Helen, The codes that you note in your mail &endash; et al. are SGML entity references. Why your client specifically wants all three codes used rather than using the keyboard dash for one of them is a question only the publisher can answer for sure. There is nothing in the SGML standard that requires this. I'd hazard a guess that there is no ambiguity with this approach and they can map the SGML code to the actual "dash" they want to typeset in each case. Dave ================================================================= ======== Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 23:39:47 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roy Lee Campbell Subject: Copyright & book index I am evaluating several careers to enter, including book indexing. A question that came up when looking at book indexing as a career was the issue of copyright restrictions on book indexing. Suppose one were to index a book or set of books independently of the book author and publisher. Of course, the index will contain many words which occur in the text of the book. If the independent indexer inappropriately copies any of the original index, that would naturally risk copyright infringement. But would the mere fact that a book index contains many words that occur in the text of the book mean that there is infringement? One of the reasons I am interested in such an unusual situation is that perhaps such an independently written book index could serve as a sample of my work. Roy Campbell scks@loclnet.com ================================================================= ======== Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 02:58:00 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Copyright & book index Roy, There's certainly no problem with doing your own index of a book that's already been indexed. However, you migh consider instead doing a book that hasn't been indexed. That way there could be no question that the index was your original work. Since your new index would probably have some overlap with a previous index, the question would not be copyright infringement, since I assume you would not start trying to sell the index, but rather an editor knowing how much of your work was original, since there was an index to start with and possibly refer to. Perhaps you could index some journal articles, or even try indexing a work of fiction. And be sure to check out the American Society of Indexer's Web page. There is a wealth of information about indexing there: http://www.well.com/user/asi/. Fred Leise "Between the Lines" Indexing and Editorial Services ================================================================= ======== Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 09:30:22 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MaryMort@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Macros vs. mousing--long First, thanks to Lynn for posting this great tip. Second, I'd like to recommend to other freelancers on the list that you save Lynn's explanation of this macro, even (especially) if you don't think you'll ever need it. Coincidentally, I was just faced with a situation where a client sent me a Word file and asked me to copy into it the completed index and apply the different styles to main entries, subentries and sub-subentries. As it happened, this was a huge index (400 pages double-spaced in Word) to a 1000-page gardening book. After it took me 45 minutes to manually add the styles to the first 35 pages (the A section of the index !!), I realized I had to do something different. Well, this was Monday, before Lynn's post, but I did figure out how to set up macros to change the styles. I didn't automate as much as Lynn suggests -- [em dash ;-)] I wanted to see what I was doing and review the index one more time -- so it still took a couple of hours, but at least I was only hitting one key for each line. I created one macro for sub-sub-entries and assigned it to alt+0; I could then hold down the alt key and hit 0 until all the sub-subentries were done. Then I did the same for subentries. But now, thanks to Lynn, I know how to handle this in the future by executing a single macro. Mary -- * Mary Mortensen * marymort@aol.com * Lawrence, Kansas * USA ================================================================= ======== Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:58:51 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joyce Nester Subject: ergonomics Has the list "Sorehand" been mentioned in this discussion yet? A few years ago I had tendonitis so bad that I could hardly grip a newspaper. I got a second hand tip from Sorehand thrugh another list; make a tight roll of some scrap paper and tape it securely to make a core. Cover this roll with a hand towel and secure each end with a rubber band. This makes a higher wrist rest than is normally available, it's cheap, and washable, too! If a normal wrist rest (or two) won't help to relieve your pain, try this. You can experiment and make it any size you need. It really made a huge difference to me. One friend who saw my homemade wonder suggested she might make something a bit fancier and give them as presents! I have never subscribed to Sorehand, but I understand they also discuss other ergonomic issues. Here's the address if anyone wants to give it a try: LISTSERV@ITSSRV1.UCSF.EDU (that's [letter]ITSSRV[number]1). Type "subscribe SOREHAND " ~~~Joyce Nester~~~ ~~~Special Collections~~~ ~~~P.O. Box 90001~~~ ~~~Virginia Tech, University Libraries~~~ ~~~Blacksburg, VA 24062-9001 ~~~Voice~(540) 231-9205~~~ ~~~Fax~(540)-231-9263~~~ ~~~Internet: nester@vt.edu~~~ ================================================================= ======== Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 11:43:18 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM Subject: Re: ergonomic mouses/mice Hello all, Which is it by the way? When referring to the plural of the computer mouse, do we say mice or mouses (or meeses)? I just read that Hazel purchased the glidepad. So did I (the mini one as well). I also purchased the Logitech track ball. And after one night of practicing, I prefer the track ball by far. I still hold my hand tensely over the glidepad. I am able to rest my hand on the track ball, making for a more relaxed arm/wrist/shoulder overall. I will give the glidepad more time, but I think the track ball is going to win out. My other concern is my 3-year-old son. He uses the mouse regularly. He had difficulty with both the track ball and the glidepad. I think I will invest in the Microsoft track ball for kids. I fear that he will have some sort of hand/wrist syndrome before he hits adolescence. This is not an Index-L topic, but if some of you have children using the computer, what do you do about potential injury. Please email me privately so as not to clog the list. I will keep you posted about the results of my personal test. Leslie Leslie Leland Frank Editorial Services ================================================================= ======== Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:06:41 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Macros vs. mousing--long (was Re: Touchpad) At 02:29 PM 10/1/96 -0400, Wildefire@AOL.COM wrote: >Ouch! I'm really sorry to hear about your mouse karma! Were you formatting an >index in a Windows word processor when you were doing all that mousing >around? If so, here's a tip for everyone who delivers word-processed indexes. Lynn, once again you have come to the rescue! Thanks so much for taking the time to create this reply and explain the ins and outs of this procedure. I printed out the whole thing, and will try setting up the macros as soon as I have a spare moment. You are so kind to share all these great goodies with us. Thanks. =Sonsie= ================================================================= ======== Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 21:30:19 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dan Freidus Subject: Re: Ergonomic chairs/footrests In-Reply-To: <199609281439.KAA24846@biology.lsa.umich.edu> Well, here's some of the scoop I've gotten from an occupational therapist: the ideal would be to set adjust a chair so your feet touch the ground and the arms are set so your upper arms can be vertical, forearms about horizontal. You want your keyboard so you can use it when in this position. If you can't adjust keyboard height, you compensate by changing chiar height and then short people will tend to need a footrest, beacause tables and seeks tend to be made with assumption that everyone is 5'8"-5'10" or so. So a footrest is good if you need it but many folks will have no use for one. As for chairs, tasks other than typing may be best in other positions, so adjustablility is most important (height of both seat and back, tilt of seat, tilt of back, arm height... Meanwhile, thanks for the feedback about ergonomic keyboards, I'd still welcome experience with brands other than Microsoft. Dan Freidus freidus@umich.edu ================================================================= ======== Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 22:24:13 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli@AOL.COM Subject: Fall Conference, Chicago/Great Lakes ASI Group American Society of Indexers, Chicago/Great Lakes Group Announces Fall Conference 1996 Featured speaker: Charlotte Koelling, Instructor, University of Chicago Publishing Program and Professional Freelancer on The Business of Freelancing Saturday, November 16, 1996 8:00 am-4:30 pm Wyndham Garden Hotel 5615 N. Cumberland Avenue Chicago, IL 60631 312-693-5800 Program Schedule 8:00 Registration 8:30 Welcome and announcements 8:45 Charlotte Koelling: The Business of Freelancing I 10:15 Break 10:40 Charlotte Koelling: The Business of Freelancing II 12:00 Buffet lunch with networking tables 1:30 Making Business Fearless: Experts on Accounting and Insurance 2:30 What Do Publishers Want from Freelancers? An Editors Roundtable 3:45 Break 4:00 Ask an Indexer: Experienced Indexers Answer Your Questions 4:30 Business Meeting Charlotte Koelling: The Business of Freelancing In the publishing arena, freelancing is no longer the wave of the future . Instead it has become the mini-tsunami of the present, as cost-cutting publishers increasingly turn to independent contractors. Indexing, a specialized skill in a publishing necessity, has lent itself early and well to this trend. How does freelancing differ from traditional employment? Is it for every one? This session will explore the freelance indexer's world--the business and sales skills needed for successful freelancing, and techniques for transition from the corporate cocoon to self-employment. Charlotte Koelling has been freelancing for fifteen of approximately thi rty years in editing, writing, and publishing She has edited over fifty college textbooks and professional-level titles, as well as a number of general-interest books. Through her company, The Critical Difference Editorial Services, she also serves area corporations and small businesses. Ms. Koelling codeveloped and team teaches Freelancing in the Publishing Arena for the University of Chicago Publishing Program. She does not compile indexes, but she covers the editing of indexes in her Basic Manuscript Editing classes for the Publishing Program, and she can spot a sloppy one a mile off. Making Business Fearless Panel: Paul P. Herbert, CPA, of Paul P. Herbert & Company, Lombard, Ill will provide information on tax and accounting issues. Bill McCandless of Farmers Insurance will discuss the many insurance products available to help the home-based businessperson. A question-and-answer period will conclude the panel. What Do Publishers Want from Freelancers? Panel: Peace Kwiatek, Index and Front Matter Editor, Richard D. Irwin, B urr Ridge, Ill. Gigi Grajdura, Assistant Managing Editor, Trade, Contemporary Books, Chicago Dorothy Anderson, Production Editor, Nelson Hall, Chicago, Ill. Lucy Herz, Production Editor, Harlan Davidson, Wheeling, Ill. Ask an Indexer Sandi Schroeder is a freelance indexer and owner of Schroeder Indexing Services, with 25 years of experience. She is a member of the board of directors of ASI and president of the Chicago group. Carol Roberts is a freelance indexer and copy editor, who enjoys the five-foot commute from her bedroom to her office. Directions The Wyndham Garden Hotel is accessible by public transportation (Cumberl and stop on CTA Blue Line). Cumberland South exit off the Kennedy Expressway. The Hotel also provides free shuttle service from O'Hare Airport. For hotel and accommodation information, call 312-693-5800. Additional Information For more information, call Sandi Schroeder at 847-303-0989 (sanindex@aol.com) or Gerald Van Ravenswaay at 312-665-2588 (gvraven@ aol.com). Registration ASI Members Non-members By Nov. 1 $60 $ 80 After Nov. 1 $80 $100 Conference fee includes continental breakfast, deli bar lunch, and afternoon refreshments. Name___________________________________ First name for nametag______________________ Address__________________________________ City, State, Zip____________________________ Phone___________________________________ E-mail___________________________________ Make checks payable to Caryl Wenzel, ASI Chicago Group Treasurer. Mail form and check to: Caryl Wenzel, 8315 Route 53, Unit B14, Woodridge, IL 60517. ================================================================= ======== Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 21:51:18 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Peter Rooney Subject: Wordperfect conversion - help! I've created a file with [UND] ... [und] codes, representing italics (standard editorial practice). My publisher wants these codes translated to actual [ITALC] ... [italc]. For example (assuming Reveal Codes is turned on) farming, [UND]see[und] agriculture needs to be turned into farming, [ITALC]see[italc] agriculture Is there any easy way to do this en masse? (not one by one - I know how to do that, but it would be laborious). Thanks for your help. ================================================================= ======== Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 07:28:06 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Heather L. Ebbs" Organization: Editor's Ink Subject: Re: Wordperfect conversion - help! Peter Rooney asked about replacing underline codes with italic. Yes, Peter, you can build a macro to do this. I call mine ALT-U, but label it how you will. I don't know what version of WP you have, so I can't tell you the specific keys to use in building your macro, but basically you turn your macro function on (mine is 5.1 for DOS, so that means that I use CTRL-F10), then search for an opening underline code [UND], turn on BLOCK, search for the closing underline code [und], italicaze the blocked bit, move one step left (to get inside the [italc] code], backspace (to delete the [und] code), and press y (meaning, yes, delete [und]). (For me, all the above makes the following key sequence: F2, F8, F2, F12, F2, F8, F8, left, Backspace, SHFT-F11, left, BKSP, Y) Then you turn off your macro, and voila! From then on just hold down ALT and keep pressing U (if you defined it as ALT-U) until WP tells you that [UND] is not found. If the above is confusing, e-mail me privately and I can send you my ALT-U as an attachment. Heather Ebbs editink@istar.ca ================================================================= ======== Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 07:00:55 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Eye exercises Re the discussions of eyeglasses and eyestrain recently: I have learned some exercises in a yoga class that can really give those tired eyes a boost. There are three different ones, alternate between them. They should be done as slowly and smoothly as possible. Slower makes the exercises harder, but more beneficial. 1) Holding the head steady, look upward as far as possible without over straining: starting at 12 o'clock slowly move your eyes clockwise in a circle. When you reach a place that your eyes want to be jumpy, try going back and smoothing out the motion. Repeat 3-4 times clockwise. Start again at 12 o'clock and repeat counter clockwise. 2) Move eyes from 12 o'clock to 6 o'clock and back. Then go from 9 to 3. Repeat each several times. 3) Try moving from upper right to lower left several times, and the upper left to lower right. After doing one of the above *smoothly and slowly* close your eyes and gently stroke your upper eyelids from nose outward to temples several times. Then massage along the lower edge of your eyebrow (along the bone edge of the orbit) with your fingers, starting at the nose & moving out ward. Let your eyes remain closed and take a couple of slow deep breaths, enjoying the pleaant sensation around your eyes. Stretching your jaw as if yawning at this point will help relax it if you have been unconsciously clenching it while you work. This feels great! Give it a try. Ann Truesdale anntrue@ix.netcom.com ================================================================= ======== Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 08:48:13 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PilarW@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Eye exercises Another good yoga exercise for your eyes: Rub your palms together very quickly until they are extraordinarily hot, then quickly place them on your eyes. Breath deeply and slowly as the heet and energy penetrates your eyes. Feels great! L. Pilar Wyman (Pilar) Wyman Indexing Annapolis, MD Tel/Fax: 410-263-7537 Email: PilarW@aol.com "What is indexing?" -----> http://www.well.com/user/asi/indfaq.htm ================================================================= ======== Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:14:00 BST-1 Reply-To: hcalvert@cix.compulink.co.uk Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hilary Calvert Subject: Re: Ergonomic chairs/footrests I have a history of joint problems (I've had injections in some joints - fingers, wrists, elbows, ankles - several times) as well as back and neck problems, and this has forced me to make a lot of changes to my working environment. I now have my monitor raised so that the top is at about the level of the top of my head - using a plinth made out of bits of wood we had lying around, and I have a kind of lectern immediately below the Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 20:44:36 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9610A" To: Julius Ariail monitor (made out of an old kitchen cupboard) which can hold two lots of about 300 pages of A4 proofs side by side. This means that I can do my indexing looking straight ahead all the time. It was my physiotherapist who advised me to raise the monitor - and I gather from a friend (this may be complete baloney!) that raising your eyes actually raises your spirits and makes you more alert! I also have a minimalist exercise that I do whenever I remember - bringing my chin in so as to stretch the back of my neck. I also have a wrist rest and footrest (I actually splashed out and bought these!), but my office chair is one of the cheapest available. However, it is adjustable, and I have the back as low as it will go. I also use the mouse as little as possible, always using keyboard alternatives if they exist. I've also changed my car for one with power-steering, bought an electric can opener, changed the taps (faucets) to non-screw types, and changed the door knobs to handles. The result is that I am VERY much better (at least for the moment - watch this space) and freer from aches and pains than I have been for years. My one remaining problem is A3 proofs. Most desks aren't deep enough to make it possible to have these in front of the monitor, and even if they were, the monitor might be too far away - or too high up - for visual comfort. I'll continue experimenting, though - anyone got any good ideas? Drusilla ================================================================= ======== Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 09:54:52 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Ergonomics etc. (LONG) I've been truly fascinated by the whole ergonomics thread, and I've been reading it and saving it avidly. I've changed my indexing style, and I think this is going to throw a lot of my once-ergonomically inclined life off. I used to sit at one desk (which has a marvelous "editor's desk" from Levenger's; if you don't have an inclined surface at which to do hard copy work, I'd suggest one), mark up my pages pretty heavily, and then move to my computer desk and input. For variety's sake--or because I'd been away from indexing for awhile, or who knows why--I've started reading *and* inputting right as I read, without lots of markup. Then, I edit on computer as I go. So, I have my pages either hanging from a page holder that's affixed to the right-hand side of my monitor (I'm left-handed and tend to look to the right when touch typing) or propped up in a bookstand to the right of my monitor. I'm currently sitting in one of those kneeler chairs (this one is on wheels). I'm feeling a lot of discomfort in my back, especially between the shoulder blades, so I think I'll try my other desk chair, which is a "normal" one on wheels. I think I'll also try raising the level of my bookstand by putting a thick book under it. The problem with the stand affixed to my monitor is that it only holds a page or two. With the overhead fan on much of the time (it's still very hot and humid here, although fall has theoretically begun), the pages flap in the breeze. For any publishers out there: When you send indexers pages, it'd be *wonderful* if you'd send them in the regular 8 1/2" x 11" size, if possible. Working with legal-sized pages or ones that're even larger can pose some real neck-straining difficulties for indexers. But of course, it depends on one's indexing style. And I'll bet that that just about every indexer uses a different indexing style. If this wouldn't be too far off the track, would anyone be interested in discussing what his or her indexing style is? I know we've talked about vetting. But do you engage in heavy page markup, or do you input as you read? How many times do you read the pages? Do you build an organizational structure as you read and mark up, or does the structure evolve as you index? Do you edit at the end or as an ongoing process? And stuff like that. If this isn't of interest, please ignore--or drop me a note privately. Anyway, I'm fascinated by everyone's solutions to ergonomic problems. And having taken some goof-off time yesterday evening to mess around with my Glidepoint touchpad, I'm finding that it's gotten more responsive to my touch--or that I've gotten more responsive to it. I *do* love not having to move a mouse all over creation and not having to double- and single-click. Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net) sign that your cat has learned your Internet password: your new ergonomic keyboard has a strange, territorial scent to it ================================================================= ======== Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 12:10:42 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Cynthia D. Bertelsen" Subject: Indexing Style (was Re: Ergonomics etc. (LONG)) Good idea. My answers follow the quoted questions. At 09:54 AM 10/3/96 -0400, Hazel Blumberg-McKee wrote: >If this wouldn't be too far off the track, would anyone be interested in >discussing what his or her indexing style is? >But do you engage in heavy page markup, or do you input as you >read? How many times do you read the pages? I mark pages very heavily, too, because I find that with university press books (which I do mostly) that, by the time I get to the end of the book and I have had more exposure to the author's ideas, I know that I need to go back and be sure that I got everything at the beginning. Marking pages allows me to edit my indexes more rapidly and also helps me when I check page numbers against the index to be sure that all page numbers correspond to the terms. This is hard to do and time-consuming if the pages are not marked. I generally go through the book 3-4 times, once while just reading and marking, another time to check that all terms are there that should be there, and a couple of other times (quickly) to make sure that the index structure reflects the author's thoughts and the structure of the book. >Do you build an organizational structure as you read and mark up, or does the structure evolve as you index? In regard to index structure, the structure can be easy to discern if the author has done a good job and/or if the book is in the sciences (usually). I read the introductory chapter and the concluding chapters first, if there are any. These usually have a plethora of conceptual words which I note and then look for while reading the book. I also look at the Table of Contents and section headings, too. I also check the indexes of other books on the same subject (if there are any) to make sure that I have chosen commonly-used words in the field. (Note: it pays to check reputable subject dictionaries and encyclopedias for terms as well, since who knows if the terms in the other indexes are completely correct? No offense to anyone, of course.) By checking terms in subject dictionaries and encyclopedias, I get a feel for synonyms, too, for See references. I use the terms of the author wherever possible, but I also use classified indexing at times (usually with science books; i.e., with main headings followed by subheadings like the following: amphibians, mammals rather than amphibians, cattle, mammals, etc.). Otherwise, my entries generally reflect the terminology of the author (in social science works). Books that are contributed volumes are usually the most difficult books to index and I find that I need to work more on the structure in these cases. >Do you edit at the end or as an ongoing process? I edit all the time, while marking, entering terms, reading print-outs (I usually let at least 24 hours go by after the first major print-out, so that I can see things better in terms of index structure), and so on. I also check each page reference, a tedious job, but necessary, to make sure that I was not typing 10 entries on page 10 and then went on to page 11 on automatic pilot, still putting in page 10 for one or two entries. (I try hard not to do this as I am going along, but it happens once in a while!) ************ Cynthia D. Bertelsen INDEXER Blacksburg, VA cbertel@nrv.net http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ================================================================= ======== Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 11:13:04 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: Wordperfect conversion - help! At 09:51 PM 10/2/96 -0700, Peter Rooney wrote: >I've created a file with [UND] ... [und] codes, representing italics >(standard editorial practice). My publisher wants these codes >translated to actual [ITALC] ... [italc]. For example (assuming Reveal >Codes is turned on) > farming, [UND]see[und] agriculture >needs to be turned into > farming, [ITALC]see[italc] agriculture >Is there any easy way to do this en masse? (not one by one - I know how >to do that, but it would be laborious). Thanks for your help. Peter: Here's a way in WP51 to fully automate the procedure described by Heather (which, BTW, needs another F2 in the key sequence after the Backspace). Open your file. Type Ctrl-F10 to create a macro and name it UND-ITAL. Type F2 then F8 and F2 again to find the first [UND] code. Type F12 to turn on highlighting. Type F2 and then F8 twice; on the find line, back up with the left arrow key past the [und] code and delete the [UND] code; and then type F2 again to find the [und] code that matches the [UND] code you found first. Type Ctrl-F8: 2,4 to italicize the highlighted text. Back up with the left arrow key past the [italc] code you've just inserted and then delete the [und] code (together with the [UND] code it's paired with). Type Alt-F10 and enter UND-ITAL to chain this macro to itself. Type Ctrl-F10 to end your creation of the macro. Type Alt-F10 and enter UND-ITAL to run the macro ... et voila! Michael Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 916-272-7088 ================================================================= ======== Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:12:43 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Re: Indexing Style (was Re: Ergonomics etc. (LONG)) (fwd) Thank you to Cynthia for responding to my queries! I've heard so often--and I'm sure that you have, too--that indexing is utterly mechanical or "really easy" or something like that. I've always had the hunch that everybody indexes differently, and I was curious to see what other people's styles are. I also thought we could all learn a lot from each other, and I hoped that people new to indexing would get some ideas from this discussion. I'm one of the teachers of the USDA Basic Indexing course, and I try to tell my students that there are as many ways to go about the indexing process as there are snowflake patterns. And when they ask what the "real index" to a particular indexing assignment looks like, I tell them there isn't one. If you gave one article to five different indexers, I tell them, you'd assuredly have five different indexes. Yes, there will assuredly be concepts that the indexes will have in common. But I may use "defined" as a subheading, while someone else uses "definition," and someone else uses "definition of," and so on. Simplistic example, but. I hope that students learn that indexing is like any other kind of writing: varied, complex, and creative. I try to describe it to them also in terms of learning a foreign language. You learn the rules first. But as you get more and more adept at the language, you learn different ways of expressing things. You learn the fine points of the language. And yes, I completely agree: Multiauthor works present some of the biggest challenges, particularly when they're on a subject like literary criticism, for example. Frequently, each author has his or her own terminology for a particular topic. I've done a number of multiauthor books on various aspects of the law, and because I have a law degree, I used to assume that that'd make things easier. You'd think that of course the terminology would be standardized. Not always. For example, each state has its own terms for one particular thing. Louisiana, because it uses the Napoleonic Code as the core of its laws, rather than the British common law, has perhaps the most unusual legal terms I've ever seen. And even something as simple as "drunk driving" gets called "driving under the influence," "DUI," "driving while intoxicated," "DWI," and on and on, depending on what jurisdiction you're in. It's great to have as many reference books as you can to help you out. I'll bet that we all have a treasure trove. Thank goodness we can write them off, or we'd go broke. Anyway, a loooooooooooooooooooooong way of saying THANK YOU for your thoughtful reply! Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net) sign that your cat has learned your Internet password: your new ergonomic keyboard has a strange, territorial scent to it ================================================================= ======== Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:22:22 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@AOL.COM Subject: Oversized page proofs In a message dated 96-10-03 10:00:28 EDT, Hazel wrote: > For any publishers out there: When you send indexers pages, it'd be > *wonderful* if you'd send them in the regular 8 1/2" x 11" size, if > possible. Working with legal-sized pages or ones that're even larger can > pose some real neck-straining difficulties for indexers. But of course, > it depends on one's indexing style. And I'll bet that that just about > every indexer uses a different indexing style. and Drusilla wrote: > My one remaining problem is A3 proofs. Most desks aren't deep enough to > make it possible to have these in front of the monitor, and even if they > were, the monitor might be too far away - or too high up - for visual > comfort. I'll continue experimenting, though - anyone got any good ideas? I hate getting oversized proofs too. (Drusilla, my memory is a bit fuzzy from when I lived in Europe, but A3 is larger than A4, right? And, I think, even A4 is a tad bit larger than our 8-1/2 by 11" standard here in the States.) Anyway, I have hubby cut them down to a manageable size for me. (I bought a paper cutter especially for this purpose. BTW, if anyone does this, don't buy a cheap paper cutter like I did. You'll have to sharpen the blade wayyy too often.) In fact, I hate working with oversized pages so much that I even had my dad make a special trip to my house and do this for me when my husband wasn't available to do this. We also cut proofs containing two full pages of text (printed in landscape orientation on large paper.) I don't worry about having all of the pages cut to precisely the same size, I just tell whoever is cutting them to cut them (on all edges, if necessary) to as small as possible without getting rid of page numbers, filename headers, etc. Nor do I care about retaining the registration marks. The portions we cut off make great scrap paper, BTW. BTW, Drusilla, your lectern sounds like a wonderful idea--even better than my adjustable copy stand. I think I'll get one of those that many bingo players use (for playing multiple sheets at once), as they come with potentially handy spring-loaded clamps on the top (for when the weather forces me to use a fan). Being that I'm not supposed to make repetitive movements of my head/neck, it'll be just what the doctor ordered! Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing ================================================================= ======== Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:22:27 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@AOL.COM Subject: Indexing styles (was Re: Ergonomics etc. (LONG) In a message dated 96-10-03 10:00:28 EDT, Hazel wrote: > > I've changed my indexing style, and I think this is going to throw a lot > of my once-ergonomically inclined life off. I used to sit at one desk > (which has a marvelous "editor's desk" from Levenger's; if you don't > have an inclined surface at which to do hard copy work, I'd suggest one), > mark up my pages pretty heavily, and then move to my computer desk and > input. For variety's sake--or because I'd been away from indexing for > awhile, or who knows why--I've started reading *and* inputting right as I > read, without lots of markup. Then, I edit on computer as I go. Hazel, This is the same technique that I use. The only thing that I miss about marking up pages is that it nicely broke indexing into refreshing changes of venue so to speak, instead of it mostly being solid sessions at the computer. However, when I "pre-read" a book before starting the actual indexing, I prefer to curl up on the sofa or love seat, or go out onto the patio. Spreading out indexing-related activities all over the house as I do may not be the best idea for those of us who aren't the best of housekeepers. I realized this when, only two days after throwing away a duplicate set of pages that were in the living room, I found the book with my index in it in the store. ;-D > If this wouldn't be too far off the track, would anyone be interested in > discussing what his or her indexing style is? I know we've talked about > vetting. But do you engage in heavy page markup, or do you input as you > read? How many times do you read the pages? Do you build an > organizational structure as you read and mark up, or does the structure > evolve as you index? Do you edit at the end or as an ongoing process? > And stuff like that. If this isn't of interest, please ignore--or drop me > a note privately. I think that is a wonderful subject for a list that happens to be about indexing. ;-D I don't mark my pages at all, except for having my husband write in the page ranges for all of the headings. I usually do a quick, intense scan of the book before I begin indexing. At that time, I'm not only looking for rather broad, indexable concepts, but also for their scope and interrelationships with other concepts. A rather nebulous mental structure of the index-to-be starts forming in this process. This also helps me to mentally calibrate the depth and type of analysis I use when I first encounter a concept when actually creating entries. For example, when I know that something is discussed frequently later on and in a variety of narrowly-defined aspects, I immediately go down to subsubentry level (which can always be subsumed if later found to be unnecessary). (This is why I'm not crazy about having chapters "chunked" in to me. I don't have the entire book to scan for scope.) Depending on the difficulty of the material, I next read or intensely scan each chapter before indexing it. This provides a finer-grained advance image of the emerging structure. When actually creating entries, I input as I read, this time reading very intensely. First I index the concepts suggested by any headings on the page (except for useless headings like "Where do we go from here?"). Sometimes, I'll go through the entire chapter and index all of the headings first. I tend to read several paragraphs at a time, looking for indexable concepts, then zip back on the page to where I started reading and spew out a batch of entries, rereading each paragraph and also scanning ahead as necessary. Before finally leaving the page (or a really heavy section), I scan it again to make sure that I caught everything that needed to be indexed (sometimes using Macrex's group mode on the current page number to check my entries). So, by the time I've indexed a page, I've read/scanned it quite a few times. ;-D This is nowhere as slow as it sounds, BTW. I'm doing this on the book I'm currently indexing and am cranking about 20-25 pages or more per hour. I build the organizational structure as I read and create entries, working from the rough mental framework that I develop in my first scan of the book and chapters. However, I frequently revise and tweak the structure as I go along and am constantly editing. Restructuring dramatically decreases the further into the book I get. The need for it is also inversely proportional to my familiarity with the subject matter. I also fix typos as I see them, instead of leaving them for the final editing process. (Words that I consistently misspell, I create keywords for, sometimes defined as the misspellings themselves in addition to shortened forms! ;-D) When I've finished creating entries, I usually only have to make two full onscreen editing passes through the index and one hardcopy editing pass to catch those things that you simply miss onscreen. (If I've gone over the number of pages allotted for the index, the number of editing passes increases dramatically as I'm cutting and restructuring the index.) I also work with automatic cross-reference checking turned on, so I can fix bad cross references on the fly. I also usually fix cross references while indexing and editing when I change a heading that I know is a target. (Group mode is wonderful for this, too.) This, and the little trick I posted here before about general cross references, leads to a pretty clean final cross reference check of the entire index when I've finished editing it. Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing ================================================================= ======== Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:33:20 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Julia B. Marshall" Subject: Re: Ergonomics etc. (LONG) In-Reply-To: <199610031402.KAA06221@cap1.CapAccess.org> Dear INDEX-Ler's Just an idea tossed out to all you desk sitting sufferers out there. I've been learning the Alexander technique from a local teacher in the Washington DC metro area. The Alexander technique is a way of moving mindfully that concentrates on finding each persons own ease within their own body. You can apply the technique to any activity: sitting, standing, walking, typing, reading, vetting, running, picking up objects etc. After several months of lessons I have begun to notice a real difference in a lot of my activities including typing. Since I spend a lot of time at a computer at work where I *don't* have all the ergonomic options available, learning the Alexander technique has helped me minimize my aches and pains quite a lot. Most large cities have Alexander teachers within their metro areas. It's an option that some of you might want to check out. Regards Julia Marshall Takoma Park MD juliam@capaccess.org ================================================================= ======== Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 20:48:16 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Carolyn G. Weaver" Subject: Writer's Market as indexer resource I just bought the 1997 edition of Writer's Market and sat down and actually READ the introductory material for a change. (In the past I've scanned the "How much do you charge" section every year - usually in a library copy - and used the publisher listings for addresses and phone numbers, without paying a great deal of attention to the text.) I was fascinated to discover that this material, directed toward freelance writers, addresses many of the same themes we cover on this list - how to get started, the difficulty of making a living as a freelancer, dealing with editors, low fees, computers, electronic submission of manuscripts, etc. It's an excellent general resource for beginning freelancers, and something of an eye-opener for indexers in general. Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, WA. phone: 206/930-4348 email: cweaver@u.washington.edu ================================================================= ======== Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 03:33:21 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Oversized page proofs While the oversized pages are cumbersome, when it comes to trimming, I don't like to trim too closely. I'm one of those indexers who marks proof, and sometimes makes notes on the proof. I use the white space around the text for my notations. Trimming that off (or too much of it, anyway) would be inconvenient for me. Interesting, how differently we all work, no? Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ================================================================= ======== Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 03:57:15 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: ROBJRICH@AOL.COM Subject: A Note on Indexing To Index-L: Recently, some persons have expressed a desire to become indexers, others have expressed this desire tempered by apprehension. These are a few thoughts that I would like to share with newbies (and others) in the hope that they might stimulate, not controversy, but some thoughtful discussion: Regarding indexers: There are many good folks out there. They will help you, and help you meet other indexers in your area, etc. Their aggregate experience and wisdom is substantial and worth paying attention to. In my view, very few professional groups are so open and giving in sharing advice, offering guidance, and distributing hugs when needed. If you are a newbie and need some mentoring (and even if you are not), they will help you there, too. Indexing basically is a difficult and solitary enterprise, but being entirely alone makes it much harder. I have never heard of an indexer who needed help who was abandoned. Like the Marines, we bring out our wounded. Although the indexing community is small, it also is quite diverse. Forums such as Index-L have no geographical boundaries. That makes for some interesting discussions (both online and at meetings). Oddly, indexing is both a refuge for the timid and a venue for some off-the-wall characters. In addition to the lurkers who scurry along the wainscoting and never say a word, indexing also seems to attract some very independent spirits who, not surprisingly, tend to have ....how shall I say this.....rather sharply-defined and strongly-held ideas. That diversity, that tug of ideas, is wonderful. There doubtless are a few turkeys in our flock, but that is called real life. The community of fellow-indexers is very important to our professional (and sometimes to our emotional) health. . Indexing also seems to require some odd turnings in one's DNA. . Regarding the profession of indexing: I remarked in an earlier posting that many publishers did not seek, recognize, or pay for, Old-World craftsmanship. I didn't amplify that comment, and after reflecting on it I feel that it might have been ambiguous. I was not speaking about an indexer's personal sense of meticulous craftsmanship, or the quality of one's work. What I meant was that the publishing world has changed greatly from the old-fashioned 84 Charing Cross Road traditionalism. There is little, if any, of the so-called "romance of publishing" left; certainly not in the sense it was, for example, even three or four decades ago. In many disciplines, editing standards clearly have been eroded. Books generally are a commodity. Most publishers are bottom line- and production-driven. There almost never is enough time or enough money. The index always is last, when there is no slack in either the schedule or the budget. But of course, you all know that. But consider, also, this perspective: Indexers are the only professionals with any kind of creative role (indexing is a creative act!) who are expected to do a flawless job right out of the box, on the first try, under tremendous time pressure, on a book of unknown complexity and coherence, often multi-authored, on a subject (or even a language) they might not have worked with before, often received piecemeal with unpaginated proofs and chapters out-of-sequence, and do it with virtually no time to study the text, little opportunity to discuss alternatives or resolve questions, and no opportunity to see what changes might have been made to their work without their knowledge or consent. All this with the probability that if anything goes wrong they probably will not have a chance to correct it, and perhaps will not hear from that publisher again. Oh yes, and usually do it anonymously. Very few people in publishing operate under such constraints. The other side of that coin is this: In the world of commercial publishing, indexing is a profession that still affords the increasingly rare opportunity to be both independent and creative. When the indexer starts to work, she/he is alone with the text and with her own skill, insight, experience, and depth of understanding. It is one of the last truly professional experiences: to be entirely responsible for the quality of one's work on one's own terms. Of course there are publishers' guidelines and house standards, but in the final cut it's the indexer, all alone with the book (often late in the night), who brings forth this delicately-balanced,. complex, tapestry called an index. And at its best, it is very, very satisfying.... Bob Richardson ================================================================= ======== Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 09:59:00 BST-1 Reply-To: hcalvert@cix.compulink.co.uk Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hilary Calvert Subject: Re: Oversized page proofs Oh dear! I remembered just after I sent off my message that US has quite different page sizes! A4 is 8.27" x 11.69" and A3 is twice as big (for the record, A5 is half the size of A4 - and so on). Drusilla ================================================================= ======== Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 07:52:41 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Re: Writer's Market as indexer resource In-Reply-To: <199610041132.HAA28841@polaris.net> On Thu, 3 Oct 1996, Carolyn G. Weaver wrote: > I just bought the 1997 edition of Writer's Market and sat down and > actually READ the introductory material for a change. (In the past I've > scanned the "How much do you charge" section every year - usually in a > library copy - and used the publisher listings for addresses and phone > numbers, without paying a great deal of attention to the text.) Many, many thanks to Carolyn for her tip! I blush to admit that, yes, I buy _Writer's Market_ every year and NEVER read the introductory material. I hereby promise to read the intro on my next break. And we wonder why people can't figure out how to use indexes. <<>> Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net) sign that your cat has learned your Internet password: your new ergonomic keyboard has a strange, territorial scent to it ================================================================= ======== Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 09:03:54 -0500 Reply-To: becohen@prairienet.org Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barbara E. Cohen" Subject: Re: Ergonomics I too cut my pages down when I have pages larger than 8.5 x 11" ones, and esp. when I get 2-page spreads. This has eased some strain on the shoulders given my workstation set-up. However, unlike Lynn, I didn't buy a papercutter; I go to Kinko's and use their wonderful, always sharp ones! No one has ever said anything about my not actually xeroxing anything when I do this, so I guess I must be there often enough that it doesn't matter. BTW, if you have a stack of pages that need identical cuts, they can do the whole stack for $.50 per cut. Also a cheap and efficient method. P.S. I don't mind the break from the office, and I don't have room for a papercutter nearly as nice as anything they have on hand. -- Barbara E. Cohen Indexing & Editorial Services Champaign, IL ================================================================= ======== Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 11:35:51 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Writer's Market as indexer resource In a message dated 96-10-04 07:33:46 EDT, cweaver@U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Carolyn G. Weaver) writes: > It's an excellent general resource for beginning freelancers, and > something of an eye-opener for indexers in general. > Carolyn, Not only that... I actually got a client by using the Writer's Market. ;-D It may not cover quite as many publishers as the Literary MarketPlace and is heavier on Acquisions Editors' names vs. the Managing and Production Editors names we usually look for, but it's way less expensive than the LMP and the writeups of what each publisher publishes are excellent, IMHO. Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing ================================================================= ======== Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 11:01:05 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Oversized page proofs I, too, use a paper cutter to cut these down. >BTW, Drusilla, your lectern sounds like a wonderful idea--even better than my >adjustable copy stand. I just take my accounting book and set it between the back of my keyboard and the front of my computer (on which my monitor sits). That creates a little "slant board," and I just place a batch of pages on it, and the back edge of the keyboard holds the pages in place. I much prefer this to the actual copy stand to the right of my computer, which I now use to hold my "how to receive a fax" instructions; also have a clip-on lamp attached to the top of it. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | Life is good. Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | Milwaukee, WI | ================================================================= ======== Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 12:17:31 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Re: Oversized page proofs In-Reply-To: <199610041551.LAA15448@polaris.net> On Fri, 4 Oct 1996 JPerlman@AOL.COM wrote: > While the oversized pages are cumbersome, when it comes to trimming, I don't > like to trim too closely. I'm one of those indexers who marks proof, and > sometimes makes notes on the proof. I use the white space around the text > for my notations. Trimming that off (or too much of it, anyway) would be > inconvenient for me. I've gone from heavy markup and *lots* of notes in the margins, to a really minimalist approach, in which I underline or circle something that I find indexable. Still, I like to have plenty of white space, just in case. I don't like receiving two pages of text on one sheet of paper. Either there's not enough room to make any notes (if I decide to do so, and if the pages are trimmed tightly), or the sheet is enormously oversized with lots of white space (which then drives me crazy shoving the huge page side to side in my book holder). I'll normally cut apart pages that come two to a sheet. Makes a lovely and mindless activity when your brain is overcooked. And when you're done with the project, the smaller sheets make great scrap paper. I don't think we've bought a scratch pad in years. We're still reliving old projects I've undertaken. One of my big peeves (or "a big peef," to quote a friend) is receiving a set of pages that's been stapled together! No! No! I'll either have to resort to my staple remover or cut a diagonal corner off the pages, if the staple proves recalcitrant. When I first get a set of pages, I usually staple together the notes. I'll go through them quickly and circle the ones that look like they might be indexable. I also staple the bibliography pages together. Too often, the author doesn't give a complete name--of another author or of a title--and I like to have the bibliography handy to consult. I also go through and separate the pages by chapters. Then I paperclip each chapter's pages and stack, one chapter vertically, the next horizontally, and so on.That way, an enormous task starts to look a bit more manageable. (OK, a 3,000-page-long book on the Uniform Commercial Code is *still* enormous, but at least I get to kid myself.) Ah, the work habits of indexers. Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net) sign that your cat has learned your Internet password: your new ergonomic keyboard has a strange, territorial scent to it ================================================================= ======== Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 13:13:51 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Richard T. Evans" Subject: Re: A Note on Indexing At 03:57 AM 10/4/96 -0400, you wrote: > >But consider, also, this perspective: Indexers are the only professionals >with any kind of creative role (indexing is a creative act!) who are expected >to do a flawless job right out of the box, on the first try, under tremendous >time pressure, on a book of unknown complexity and coherence, often >multi-authored, on a subject (or even a language) they might not have worked >with before, often received piecemeal with unpaginated proofs and chapters >out-of-sequence, and do it with virtually no time to study the text, little >opportunity to discuss alternatives or resolve questions, and no opportunity >to see what changes might have been made to their work without their >knowledge or consent. All this with the probability that if anything goes >wrong they probably will not have a chance to correct it, and perhaps will >not hear from that publisher again. Oh yes, and usually do it anonymously. > Very few people in publishing operate under such constraints. Gee, I am glad you said that. This has been my mantra for when I get down in the dumps about uncertainty of the quality of my work. After four years in the business and a couple of hundred titles, I recently had my first major rework that was my fault. Suffice it to say that I missed a critical perspective on who the audience was. The rework took longer than the original index and doubled the size of the index. I felt (and continue to feel) bad about this, but I keep reminding myself that no one else involved in the production of that book achieved their understanding in one shot. Dick Evans ================================================================= ======== Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 16:02:48 -0500 Reply-To: EBENNETT@SHRSYS.HSLC.ORG Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elizabeth Bennett Subject: Ergonomic Keyboards I know that I have posted about this to this list before, but let me say again that the Kinesis keyboard is worth its weight in gold. It is three-dimensionally shaped, so you're typing into a sort of a pit, with your wrists fully supported. I have two, one at work and one at home, and have become very fond of them over the four or five years I've been using them. It takes about two weeks to adapt -- the letter keys are in the QUERTY layout (though you can buy a Dvorak version, I think) and the function keys are at the top; what takes practice is that Ctrl-Alt=Shift-Delete-Space etc. are under your thumbs. A friend who is a lefty reprogrammed the keyboard so the Space Bar was under her *left* thumb. Actually you can reprogram most keys to be something else; also, there's a foot pedal (which I don't use), which can be your Shift key. I would be happy to reply off list to any questions about the Kinesis keyboard, and the Kinesis folks are also helpful and informative (they have a try-befo-re-you-buy plan.) Elizabeth Z. Bennett, Ph.D. Senior Editor, Database and Nomenclature Systems Group ECRI 5200 Butler Pike Plymouth Meeting, PA 19462 (610) 825-6000 ext. 373 ================================================================= ======== Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 16:07:27 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Carolyn G. Weaver" Subject: Copy stands In-Reply-To: <199610042244.PAA05821@mx4.u.washington.edu> My very favorite copy holder is a plastic book holder/clipboard that I found in the Gaylord catalog. (For you non-librarians, Gaylord is a library supply firm.) When used as a book stand it's sturdy enough to support a fully loaded, open 3" 3-ring binder; the dimensions are 7-1/4"h x 14-1/2"w x 10-1/2" deep. And when not it use it folds down into a clipboard that fits on the bookshelf. Costs $23.95, comes in two colors, and is probably my most useful typing accessory. I have 2 of them at home (I use one for the material I'm indexing, and the other for whatever thesaurus, dictionary, or other stuff I refer to frequently for the project), plus one at work next to my computer. And this doesn't count the two that sort of collapsed when four fully loaded bookshelves collapsed on them a few months ago! (The stands still work, but the lip got cracked! I've never seen this particular stand anywhere else; but I swear by it. Gaylord's toll-free number is 1-800-448-6160. Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, WA. phone: 206/930-4348 email: cweaver@u.washington.edu ================================================================= ======== Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 13:18:00 +1100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Australian Society of Indexers Subject: Web indexing - send in your home page URL *** PLEASE FORWARD THIS TO ALL PEOPLE YOU KNOW PRODUCING TOPICAL INDEXES OF INTERNET INFORMATION *** Hi I have set 30 Nov 96 as the deadline for entries for the Web indexing Prize. Email to aussi@zeta.org.au the URL of a page you have been working on plus a short description of where you are coming from and what the index is aimed at. I have had one entry from a university in Australia. Their library had produced a topic list for their students which was used in their studies to help the librarian to answer queries about information on the internet on their subject. Why not just do that? Forget WEBIX and all that technobabble. It's there if you need it but NOT necessary. It is a little clunky and isn't as slick as your commercial products but it needn't be used if you don't want to. Just use an editor or grab someone in your department who can create some HTML and wack together a page of a few entries. This is not meant to be a huge task plus you should get something practical out of it apart from a warm fuzzy feeling for winning the prize. A book 'Indexers - Partners in Publishing, Proceedings from the 1st Int'l Conference, Marysville, 1996' or free membership to AusSI for a year will be awarded too. (The Newsletter can be emailed to you.) Winner is announced on 13 Dec 1996 by email on the AusSI Web site. Details on: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi/inetindx.htm Come on you Americans, Canadians and others on this list. Don't get scared off by all the technobabble. It's just an alphabetical list created using HTML to link to information on the Internet. Give it a go!! Cheers Dwight ------- Dwight Walker Webmaster and Editor Australian Society of Indexers +61-2-93986726 (h) +61-2-94393750 (w) W-F, fax +61-2-94383729 (w) URL: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi ================================================================= ======== Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 14:57:25 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Re: Writer's Market as indexer resource In-Reply-To: <199610042325.TAA20202@polaris.net> I forgot to mention that I've gotten a number of clients after having found out about them through *Writer's Market*. I usually contact prospective clients every three to four to six months, and *WM* has helped me to identify publishers who put out the kinds of books that interest me or to tell me more about publishers I've heard of. Some advice book (wish I could remember which) had the suggestion of hunting for more clients and more work when you're busiest, rather than when you've got slack time. I think that's great advice, and I've followed it. Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net) sign that your cat has learned your Internet password: your new ergonomic keyboard has a strange, territorial scent to it ================================================================= ======== Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 15:22:07 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Bitnet address I've discovered that I am Bitnet-impaired, as are several other people I've heard from. Our messages to Index-L keep bouncing back to us if we respond to the Bitnet address. For anyone else who has this problem, you can post to the list by using this address: index-l@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net) sign that your cat has learned your Internet password: your new ergonomic keyboard has a strange, territorial scent to it ================================================================= ======== Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 17:19:58 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Thomas Farrell Subject: Computerized Index, Feedback Needed I'm delurking so that I can request your feedback in response to the following situation. I work for a state agency. The division I work in, environmental regulatory permits, uses a multi-authored, 2-volume, 3-ring-bindered operations manual that explains how our division works. The material consists mainly of narratives that describe our bureaucratic process, such as procedures, sample letters, legal documents, checklists, and a catalog of technical questions that we submit to applicants. Except for an inadequate concordance, there is no index to the text. (Countless person-hours have been lost because workers have no convenient way to access the information.) Recently, admin decided to revise the manual and to add an index. The new manual will be on disk and the index will be created through a program called Robohelp. We are told that admin staff will enter the key words and that all the information will be available as a hierarchial help program. They intend to put the finished product on line and say we will also be able print out a hard copy that will include an index. Sorry for the long setup, but finally my questions: Are any of you familiar with Robohelp? What kind of problems can we expect? Many of the staff will prefer a printed version with a good back-of-the-book index. Can we expect a reasonably helpful index? I'm almost certain that none of the people working on the project has any indexing experience. Thanks. Thomas Farrell Lake Worth, FL farrellt@fau.campus.mci.net ================================================================= ======== Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 15:42:44 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: Oversized page proofs I too use the lectern-directly-in-front-of-me approach, placing batches of pages on it. I made mine out of a cardboard box (more cardboard-box technology). It is one of those very heavy ones, 17"W x 12"H x 3"D, that has a cover fitting over the bottom, in two pieces (this particular one was used to send fruit at holiday time). I turned it over and leaned the bottom portion onto the back of the top portion to form an angled surface. The editor's desks sold commercially are too big for my purposes. I'm very interested in how people work, physically, as well as in indexing process itself. Tell me more! --Victoria ================================================================= ======== Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 20:13:42 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Neva J. Smith" Subject: Re: Writer's Market as indexer resource Hazel wrote: leftSome advice book (wish I could remember which) had the suggestion of hunting for more clients and more work when you're busiest, rather than when you've got slack time. I think that's great advice, and I've followed it. Why is this a good idea? I'd be worried about making my deadlines and adding to late night hours. Could it be that your brain is already in gear? Neva << +> = * = << +> = * = << +> = * = << + > Neva J. Smith, MLIS DataSmiths Information Services njsmith@bga.com voice/fax +1.512.244.2767 ================================================================= ======== Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 20:39:02 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MrsIndex@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Oversized page proofs I have a nice big conductor's music stand that I drag around the house. The shelf/ledge that the proofs sit on is very deep and has a rather tall lip. There are also little arm-like clips that can hold the pages in place if there is a breeze. The stand can be raised and lowered and tilted to any angle. There is also enough room at the top to attach a small clip-on light. I find it very convenient. ================================================================= ======== Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 21:34:34 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 20:44:36 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9610A" To: Julius Ariail Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: ergonomic mouses/mice At 11:43 AM 10/2/96 -0400, LLFEdServ@AOL.COM wrote: I just read that Hazel purchased the >glidepad. So did I (the mini one as well). I also purchased the Logitech >track ball. And after one night of practicing, I prefer the track ball by >far. I still hold my hand tensely over the glidepad. I am able to rest my >hand on the track ball, making for a more relaxed arm/wrist/shoulder overall. >I will give the glidepad more time, but I think the track ball is going to >win out. I just looked at an ergonomic keyboard that had a touchpad on it instead of a mouse (though it also had a port to connect a standard mouse, should you prefer one). I couldn't test it in the store; I'm wondering if this touchpad is the same thing as the "glidepad" everyone is talking about. I noticed some soreness in my thumb and little finger from overgripping my mouse, and I'm thinking I want to nip any problem in the bud. =Sonsie= ================================================================= ======== Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 05:50:13 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: Computerized Index, Feedback Needed In response to Thomas Farrell (farrellt@fau.campus.mci.net), who asks > Are any of you familiar with Robohelp? > What kind of problems can we expect? [snip] > I'm almost certain that none of the people working on the > project has any indexing experience. Thomas -- You've come to the right place if you'e looking for some feedback (ammunition?!!) that you can take to whoever is in charge of procedures documentation. :-) I am familiar with Robohelp as well as some other tools for delivering online documents. In my "former life" as a technical writer, I created and supervised the creation of both printed & online documentation. Altho' I often joke that "indexing is my life" now, I must admit that I still have a fascination for tech writing tools, and I've used several of them, including Robohelp. Here's a tip for you: take a look at the indexes in the manuals produced by Blue Sky Software, the developers of Robohelp. Enough said?!! ;-) BTW, when I deliver indexing workshops, I often point out that something seems to happen to some people when they use online documentation; it's much like the phenomenon that occurs when some people get behind the wheel of a car. They want to get there *now* and they don't want anything to get in their way! Consequently, when it comes to customer satisfaction, I think that indexes for online documents are even more important than indexes for printed documentation. Others on this list will probably tell you that computerized indexes have many pitfalls ... and they'll be right. One of the worst pitfalls, especially if the writers creating the index have little or no indexing skills, is the fact that such indexes won't distinguish between *significant* entries and passing references. Sure, the software may successfully find all occurrences of each keyword specified ... but are *all* occurrences significant??? Generally, what you'll see is the keyword as an index entry followed by a gazillion page references rather than subentries that provide a hierarchical topic analysis ... and the hapless readers are forced to look at each page ref in the hopes of finding the specific information they need. Or, in the case of online documents, the software produces a gazillion "hits" (links) that are actually irrelevant. Even if the writers creating the index tags have the option of accepting or rejecting each entry, how well can they perform that task if they have had no training in the creation of usable indexes??? Again, from a customer satisfaction point of view, indexes created in this manner simply miss the mark. The fact that your agency sees the necessity for including indexes in their documentation is great. I hope you can convince them that they need *quality* indexes; in other words, no computerized index (especially if it's created by writers with no indexing skills) can replace the necessary human analysis required to produce a really usable index. Good luck with your project. BTW, I hope you'll attend the workshop I'll be delivering for the STC Chapter in Panama City, FL, on 11/9. Happy indexing .... Lori ***************************************************************** Lori Lathrop ---------->INTERNET:76620.456@compuserve.com Lathrop Media Services, P.O. Box 3065, Idaho Springs, CO 80452 Office: 303-567-4447, ext. 28 / Fax: 303-567-9306 ***************************************************************** ================================================================= ======== Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 05:51:46 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth <106234.1745@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Oversized page proofs Hallo everyone - this is my first message, after lurking for a while. I hate oversized proofs too, not only because they are unwieldy but because with A4 (standard size) pages I can use the other side for the MACREX 'list on printer' function (for non-MACREX users, I should explain that this enables you to print out each entry of an index as you create it - it's very useful as a check on mistakes and in case you lose any entries between saves). Like Drusilla, I have a lectern, a wooden one discarded by the local Greek Orthodox church, presumably because one of its four ball feet is missing - I replace this with a small book of the right height. I can use it for A4 proofs, using heavy-duty clips as necessary, but with the huge proofs that I tend to get these days, I can only drape them over the lectern one or two at a time, and they keep slipping. I think I may have to invest in a guillotine, although cutting the pages seems like an awful waste of time to me. I have another very useful thing called a Supaclip. It's a gadget which comes with a number of multi-coloured metal clips which are re-usable. You can clip about 30 pages together at a time; it's more reliable than ordinary paper-clips, and doesn't make holes in the paper like staples - which is useful if you want to use the other side. I don't know if you can get it outside the UK. Christine Shuttleworth ================================================================= ======== Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 09:45:13 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Indexing fees and vets This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------561D2C043A01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been lurking on Index-L for a few weeks. I am a veterinarian interested in becoming and indexer as a second, less people-intensive career. I've been intriged by all the chat about fees, how indexers are underpaid, underappreciated and lacking in the self-esteem and backbone necessary to demand higher fees. Also, the "fee setting" paranoia. All sounds too familiar because everything, except possibly the appreciation factor, applies to vet med too! Of course, we have the excuse that if we charged more, people would not be willing to pay to take care of their pets. We certainly have occasional clients who want to lay a guilt trip on us by saying, "If you are a veterinarian you should love animals enough to treat mine for free. Since you won't you must only care about the money!" (Little do they know that anyone only interested in money would *never* become a vet after seeing some data on average incomes and hours worked per week!) Do indexers share a moral obligation to support the publishing industry and authors in particular? Do they have a "calling" to see every book has an index, even if it is provided at a price too low for the indexer to make a decent living? I think the real problem with both vets and indexers is they share a fear of rejection. (Doesn't just about everyone?) In the back of our heads a tiny voice says, "*What if* I don't get this job because someone else bids less? Then *what if* I don't get another offer for ages? Maybe it's better to do *something* at a loss than nothing at all. Besides turning down this job involves saying *no*, and I hate doing that!" But the facts are that people consider more than just cost (usually) when deciding to spend money. The ones that consider only cost should get what they pay for -- slap-dash work. A conscientious indexer's time is probably better spent looking for a job that pays decently than working on a loser. That's not the kind of client that will be rewarding to work for -- monetarily or emotionally. Saying "no" is an assertiveness skill that can be mastered by almost anyone. There are lots of opportunities to practice in everyday life. Books, seminars and courses are available to help. Hard work and scarey, but I'm working on it myself. In fact, I got myself into such a knot trying to deal with the many conflicts of being a vet that I have been working with a clinical psycologist for the past 10 months to get -unkinked-. (I'm doing very well now, but the past two years have been *really* tough.) (Those *what if* questions should be red flags when your hear them in your own mind. They are sure sign that you are about to do a number on yourself. See the beginning of last paragraph.) One reason that I'm interested in indexing is that I will not have to deal with the employee problems inherent in vet med. We have no pool of trained people to hire from, and the economics of the business do not allow high enough pay to attract quality people anyhow. I found not being able to keep a staff which would work *up to my standards* a major source of stress, and is one of the main reasons I want to get into another field. I hope indexing, although not without its problems, will work out better for me. -- Ann Truesdale (Anntrue@ix.netcom.com) Yonges Island, SC --------------561D2C043A01 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 Message-ID: <3253D390.2A1F@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 07:54:08 -0700 From: Ann Truesdale X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01E-NC250 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: index-l@bingvmb.cc.bingingham.edu Subject: Indexing fees and vets Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been lurking on Index-L for a few weeks. I am a veterinarian interested in becoming and indexer as a second, less people-intensive career. I've been intriged by all the chat about fees, how indexers are underpaid, underappreciated and lacking in the self-esteem and backbone necessary to demand higher fees. Also, the "fee setting" paranoia. All sounds too familiar because everything, except possibly the appreciation factor, applies to vet med too! Of course, we have the excuse that if we charged more people would not be willing to pay to take care of their pets. We certainly have occasional clients who want to lay a guilt trip on us by saying, "If you are a veterinarian you should love animals enough to treat mine for free. Since you won't you must only care about the money!" Do indexers share a moral obligation to support the publishing industry and authors in particular? Do they have a "calling" to see every book has an index, even if it is provided at a price too low for the indexer to make a decent living? I think the real problem with both vets and indexers is they share a fear of rejection. (Doesn't just about everyone?) In the back of our heads a tiny voice says, "What if I dont' get this job because someone else bids less? Then what if I don't get another offer for ages? Maybe it's better to do *something* at a loss than nothing at all. Besides turning down this job involves saying no, and I hate doing that!" But the facts are that people consider more than just cost (usually) when deciding to spend money. Time is probably better spent looking for a job that pays decently than working on a loser. Saying "no" is an assertiveness skill that can be mastered by almost anyone. There are lots of opportunities to practice in everyday life. Books, seminars and courses are available to help. Hard work and scarey, but I'm working on it myself. Ann Truesdale --------------561D2C043A01-- ================================================================= ======== Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 10:55:54 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Learning QUERTY keyboard Elisabeth Bennett mentioned the QUERTY keyboard layout in her post about the Kinesis ergonomic keyboard. I'd be interested to know how difficult it is to learn the QUERTY keyboard if you already know to touch-type (*not* fast) on the Dvorak keyboard? When the transition is made, is your typing speed likely to improve? What happens if you happen to need to use a Dvorack keyboard later? Do your brain cells short out, do you just have to resort to hunt & peck? Would appreciate any experiences ya'll can share. -- Ann Truesdale (Anntrue@ix.netcom.com) Yonges Island, SC ================================================================= ======== Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 12:33:49 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Re: Writer's Market as indexer resource In-Reply-To: <199610060113.VAA15513@polaris.net> On Sat, 5 Oct 1996, Neva J. Smith wrote: > Hazel wrote: > Some advice book (wish I could remember > which) had the suggestion of > hunting for more clients and more work when you're busiest, rather than > when you've got slack time. I think that's great advice, and I've > followed > it. > > Why is this a good idea? I'd be worried about making my deadlines and > adding to late night hours. Could it be that your brain is already in > gear? OK, to explain this advice: Perhaps my experience has been different from that of others, but normally, when I'm seeking new clients, I write to a number of publishers. Some already have a full indexing stable. Some don't, but they usually don't have any projects available right then and there. But they're interested in my resume, and they keep it on file. Then, maybe *months* later, I'll hear from them. So, by the time I may've hit a slack period, some work from a new client comes in. Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net) sign that your cat has learned your Internet password: your new ergonomic keyboard has a strange, territorial scent to it ================================================================= ======== Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 12:55:21 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Richard T. Evans" Subject: Re: Indexing fees and vets At 09:45 AM 10/6/96 -0700, you wrote: >One reason that I'm interested in indexing is that I will not have to >deal with the employee problems inherent in vet med. We have no pool of >trained people to hire from, If you think the pool is small for vets, with till you try looking for a qualified assistant or subcontract indexer! The pool of qualifed indexers is small to begin with, then try looking for one who knows your specialty subject, knows (or can soon learn) your indexing software, who lives near enough to work with under tight deadlines, and who is flexible enough to be there when needed. Having said that, let me also say it can be done. I was fortunate enough to find such a person a year or so ago, but it was largely a matter of serendipity and I would not look forward to finding another should she decide she's no longer interested in indexing. Dick Evans ================================================================= ======== Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 12:56:17 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Ergonomics, ideas about The ideas about how to make oneself more comfortable and productive while indexing have been absolutely brilliant! Don't you all think we should put these together as a pamphlet for ASI? Not totally facetiously, Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net) sign that your cat has learned your Internet password: your new ergonomic keyboard has a strange, territorial scent to it ================================================================= ======== Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 13:07:55 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Chuck Brockman <75176.605@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Dvorak to QWERTY Keyboarding >>I'd be interested to know how difficult it is to learn the QUERTY keyboard if you already know to touch-type (*not* fast) on the Dvorak keyboard? Ann Truesdale<< As a poor QWERTY user, I ask: if you are one of those special few who already use a Dvorak keyboard, why would you step back into the Dark Ages of the QWERTY model? (Probably for the same reasons I still struggle with QWERTY.) One day I hope that I can switch myself to the Dvorak layout. (It's much easier now with computers compared to the days of typewriters.) Anyone interested in learning more about the Dvorak layout may receive a four-page synopsis entitled "Overview Information About the Dvorak Keyboard." It was written by Randy Cassingham who also wrote a book on the subject. Send an email to TRUEINFO@FREECOM.COM with the subject DVORAK. The autoreply program will ship the document back to you. ================================================================= ======== Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 14:45:55 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli@AOL.COM Subject: Timing of Marketing Marketing when you are busy (try to carve out an hour or two a week) assures that when you would have been without clients, that is, when your current jobs are finished, you have new work coming in the door. If you have lots of time on your hands to do marketing, it's too late, and your losing billable hours. That's the philosophy behind marketing while you are busy. Fred Leise "Between the Lines" Indexing and Editorial Services ================================================================= ======== Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 15:11:50 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Bifocals and ergonomics Hazel wrote: >Which makes me wonder: Can we write off computer glasses as a business >expense? Gotta check into this. ;} > I'm extremely near-sighted. I have my regular (distance) glasses, and another pair specifically for the computer. My tax guy told me that the computer glasses, but not the exam that led to them being prescribed, are tax-deductible. This solution has helped a little with the eyestrain I was having, but I still get severe strain if I'm on the computer most of the day. Don't quite know what else to do about it. Sigh. The only thing that relieves it is a very cold washcloth (works best if it's been in the freezer for a few minutes) on my eyes. About monitors and proofs: I worked for almost a year with the proofs on a table to my right, and I think I exacerbated previous damage to my neck. I now have my monitor on a wooden stand that raises it to eye level. My proofs are on a triangular stand with a wide bottom, so that they're just below the monitor; they're at the same distance from my eyes as the monitor and I don't have to move my head up and down between them. I ^strongly^ recommend this setup for necks and backs! Do Mi ================================================================= ======== Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 15:11:59 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Indexing styles I just love this subject! My style is very similar to Lynn's, except that I only do the initial scan and reading when the book is a complex social science scholarly book (like the ones I wrote the article about in Keywords). On more straightforward books, I look carefully at the table of contents; I also scan subliminally as I vet the pages (making sure they're all there; cutting them apart if they're oversize or doubled). Lynn wrote: > >When actually creating entries, I input as I read, this time reading very >intensely. First I index the concepts suggested by any headings on the page >(except for useless headings like "Where do we go from here?")... I >tend to read several paragraphs at a time, looking for indexable concepts, >then zip back on the page to where I started reading and spew out a batch of >entries, rereading each paragraph and also scanning ahead as necessary... > I frequently revise and tweak the structure as I go >along and am constantly editing. Restructuring dramatically decreases the >further into the book I get. The need for it is also inversely proportional >to my familiarity with the subject matter.... This is just what I do. On the pages I tick off words that signify entries to me; if I'm looking back through the pages (happens more in more complex books, or books in which I revised the structure in major ways partway through) I can look where I would have ticked a concept and find out if it's already ticked! The indexing/editing process is very intuitive for me; I jump all over the index as thoughts occur to me; I look back and forward in the page proofs (which are in a double stack in front of me). I love Macrex because it lets me swim around in the index like this. I also work with cross-ref check on and make my cross-references (and change them, and change them again) as I go. I use search and replace a lot. When I get to editing, I do it all on the screen. (I'm not sure I've ever found someone else who doesn't edit on hardcopy--anyone out there?) I just found myself getting impatient with the time it took to make a whole printout, and found I could do it on the screen just as well, especially using search, search and replace, and flip; I've designed some keyboard macros that help me compare flipped entries and so on. This all varies with the book, of course. Right now I'm working on a huge encyclopedia of sports. I don't really have to think at all to decide on entries, but there are a lot on every page, which is making keying in very slow. So I've been taking the pages elsewhere and marking them up. (I also miss the change of venue, and am working on getting my laptop set up so that I can index in other places like the couch. Ergonomics problems with that, though!) Do Mi ================================================================= ======== Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 17:01:44 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Richard T. Evans" Subject: Re: Computerized Index, Feedback Needed For a critique of an automatic indexing product called Indexicon, see the article "Indexicon, The Only Fully Automatic Indexer: A Review" by Mulvany and Milstead in the Sep/Oct 1994 issue of Keywords. I can mail or fax a copy, if needed. Their summary included: - [Indexicion] has not demonstrated the ability to produce professional quality book indexes. - many obvious and important topics missing. - no ability to identify concepts in text. - cannot create cross references. - introduces errors and nonsensical entries. The product is still available and still making grandiose claims and still not living up to them. Check their Web sit for examples. I don't have the URL handy, but search on Indexicon or Iconovex. They have a couple of magazine articles and indexes generated automatically. The indexes are pitiful. One article is about automobiles and new technology. In it there is a phrase something like this: " The Lamborghini Diablo, with its formula 1 gearbox and adjustable roll stiffness, is just the thing for those who not only want to keep up with the Jones's but blow their doors off." What would you index? Lamborghini Diablo? Formula 1 gearbox? Adjustable roll stiffness? Indexicon extracted only one entry: Jones's. There is also a paper titled "Embedded Indexing Software: Users Speak Out" written by Nancy Mulvany in 1994 and there is also some material in her book "Indexing Books." Dick Evans ================================================================= ======== Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 19:00:30 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Learning QUERTY keyboard In a message dated 96-10-06 12:00:02 EDT, Ann write: > I'd be interested to know how difficult it is to learn the QUERTY > keyboard if you already know to touch-type (*not* fast) on the Dvorak > keyboard? When the transition is made, is your typing speed likely to > improve? What happens if you happen to need to use a Dvorack keyboard > later? Do your brain cells short out, do you just have to resort to hunt > & peck? Would appreciate any experiences ya'll can share. Ann, Maybe I've become terminally confused here (which began when I read Elizabeth's post on this subject). I thought that the keyboard that we *usually* use is the QWERTY keyboard (named for the row of keys above the home row on the left side)--the one that most of us learned to type on. And, I thought that the Dvorack keyboard was a variant that someone (Dvorack?) came up with as a supposed improvement on the QWERTY keyboard. If anyone can clear up my confusion on this, I'd appreciate it. ;-D Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing ================================================================= ======== Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 20:57:26 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: ROBJRICH@AOL.COM Subject: Handling Page Proofs All - Here's one technique that I use for handling A-size page proofs: Most of the texts that I index run 500 pages and larger. I usually take them to Kinko's and have them plastic-finger bound, with a sheet of cover stock front and back and a few blank pages at the end for notes, addendum lists, etc. Kinko calls this "spiral binding" (which drives me up the wall, because the binding clearly is GBC-style straight plastic fingers and not even remotely spiral). I generally bind about 250 pages together. I find this enormously handy, because I can stick Post-It notes all over, flip back and forth, insert little scribbled slips of paper here and there, put paperclips and bookmarks in place, etc. etc. And, of course, when I drop the proofs, I don't have them all over the floor. By the way, It is important to be sure that the spine is just large enough to allow the open pages to lie flat; a tight binding does not work well. By using different-color covers I easily can tell which job is which. And if a book is really interesting, and I don't happen to get a printed copy, the plastic-bound proofs are easy to keep on a shelf or bookcase... The fee for this runs around $3.50 (it seems to vary a bit by Kinko location). For this kind of convenience, $3.50 (or $7.00 for a 500+ page book) is a small price to pay. And...ahem....it IS a deductible expense..... It doesn't matter If the proofs are somewhat larger than 8-1/2" x 11"; the finger binding (spine) will be a bit short, but Kinko will center it on the page and that works just fine. If the proofs are 11" x 17", the same techniques will work, of course, but the result requires an awfully wide working space (a doublewide lectern and/or a doublewide trailer!) Binding across the top (long) edge also would work, but the same problems arise and I am not sure that Kinko's punching machines can be set to work accurately on 17" long pages. It goes a long way toward reducing the clutter....or at least making the clutter a bit more manageable! Bob Richrdson ================================================================= ======== Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 18:21:20 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Ergonomics, ideas about At 12:56 PM 10/6/96 -0400, Hazel Blumberg-McKee wrote: >The ideas about how to make oneself more comfortable and productive while >indexing have been absolutely brilliant! Don't you all think we should >put these together as a pamphlet for ASI? > >Not totally facetiously, >Hazel It's not even a little facetious, Hazel. Rather, I think it's brilliant, and I want to see you write that article or pamphlet! =Sonsie= ================================================================= ======== Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 21:58:56 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: QWERTY correction (oops!) What I *meant* to ask was: How hard is it to learn Dvorjak keyboard if you already know QWERTY? I think it was too early in the am when I posted that message. :-/ Sorry for causing confusion -- hope it livened up your Sunday anyway. ;-) -- Ann Truesdale (Anntrue@ix.netcom.com) Yonges Island, SC ================================================================= ======== Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 06:22:00 BST-1 Reply-To: hcalvert@cix.compulink.co.uk Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hilary Calvert Subject: Re: Ergonomics, ideas about Errhem! We're not *all* ASI members! Some of us wade in the primordial slime on the other side of the pond ... However, I'm sure we wouldn't mind being included! Drusilla ================================================================= ======== Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 22:29:00 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Peter Rooney Subject: Wordperfect conversion - helped and thanks! If you remember, my original question was, how to convert a Wordperfect 5.1 for DOS document, changing all underlines [UND]...[und] to true italics [ITALC]...[italc]. You all were very helpful. I got 6 good replies with many ideas which I have carefully combined to produce the following: You type Comment start at top of file be sure that Reveal Codes (F11) is off Ctrl-F10 start recording a macro Alt-U name it ALTU (this makes it easy to use) F2 search F8 for underline (this appears as [UND] on the screen) F2 go search F12 start block from the first [UND] found F2 search again F8 F8 create [UND][und] on screen (This is the key idea!) Left Left go left 2 spaces Del and delete the [UND] code, leaving only [und] on the screen F2 search for [und] (the end of the underlined block) Ctrl-F8 start Font 24 in response to menu questions, type "24" to choose italics the block becomes italicized; however, there are still hidden underline codes which must be deleted Left Left go left 2 spaces - this positions you on a hidden [und] Del delete it: however, WP will ask if you really want to Y say yes WP will delete not only the [und] but also the matching [UND] which precedes it (weird?) Alt-F10 call a macro (within the macro) Alt-U call this selfsame macro! (another key idea). The macro then goes right on to look for the next UND..und pair to convert to ITALC..italc. This means you don't have to use programming constructs like IF and GO. The downside is, the macro may fail if it runs out of memory, and would have to be repeated. However, it worked for me to make about 50 conversions. Ctrl-F10 stops recording the macro Alt-U Use the macro that was just created. WP will say *WORKING* and should convert all the underlines to italics. If it does not, just repeat ALT-U until the job is all done. If you want to use the macro editor to look at or modify the macro, Ctrl-F10 invoke macro editor Alt-U give the name of the macro and confirm that you want to edit an existing macro. The macro should look like this on the screen: {DISPLAY OFF}{SEARCH}{UNDERLINE}{SEARCH}{BLOCK} {SEARCH}{UNDERLINE}{UNDERLINE}{LEFT}{LEFT}{DEL}{SEARCH} {FONT}24{LEFT}{LEFT}{DEL}Y{MACRO}{ALT-U} Thanks, everyone, for helping my understanding of the baroque WP "language". Thanks, INDEX-L, you really came through for me! Peter Rooney *** ================================================================= ======== Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 01:48:31 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: GVHatch@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Writer's Market as indexer resource In a message dated 96-10-05 21:15:01 EDT, you write: << Why is this a good idea? I'd be worried about making my deadlines and adding to late night hours. Could it be that your brain is already in gear? >> I think that another reason it's a good idea is that it can help to avoid that feast/famine cycle. If you are able to land another job before your current one is completed, there is less between-job time to try to fill. (At least, that's a consideration for those of us who still don't have a steady flow of work coming in yet. :-D) As far as my brain being in gear, I do find that when I'm in the middle of a project, even if I'm exhausted, I am much more enthusiastic about work. My mind is focused on indexing issues, and there's a sort of momentum that has helped me take steps that I was nervous to take before. Perhaps that comes through when I talk to people. I'll have to take my own advice here and try it sometime. Gaylene Hatch ================================================================= ======== Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 10:49:00 BST-1 Reply-To: hcalvert@cix.compulink.co.uk Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hilary Calvert Subject: Re: Ergonomics, ideas about And what about a cartoonist - someone could have a great time with our inventions! ================================================================= ======== Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 07:32:56 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Re: Bifocals and ergonomics In-Reply-To: <199610070117.VAA17474@polaris.net> On Sun, 6 Oct 1996 Do Mi wrote: > I'm extremely near-sighted. I have my regular (distance) glasses, and another > pair specifically for the computer. My tax guy told me that the computer > glasses, but not the exam that led to them being prescribed, are > tax-deductible. This is really exciting! My glasses cost a small fortune (I, too, am extremely near-sighted), and anything that's tax-deductible is a big help. > About monitors and proofs: I worked for almost a year with the proofs on a > table to my right, and I think I exacerbated previous damage to my neck. I > now have my monitor on a wooden stand that raises it to eye level. My proofs > are on a triangular stand with a wide bottom, so that they're just below the > monitor; they're at the same distance from my eyes as the monitor and I don't > have to move my head up and down between them. I ^strongly^ recommend this > setup for necks and backs! My computer desk has a drawer on which I place my keyboard and my mouse (now a touchpad). Unfortunately, there's no room between the keyboard and the monitor to put a stand for the pages I'm indexing. Rats! Anyone have any suggestions? I can indeed tell that looking off to the right to input is killing my neck and back. Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net) sign that your cat has learned your Internet password: your new ergonomic keyboard has a strange, territorial scent to it ================================================================= ======== Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 09:22:07 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "John R. Sullivan" <104146.1652@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: RoboHelp Thomas Farrell posted a question about RoboHelp; Lori Lathrop responded: > Here's a tip for you: take a look at the indexes in the manuals produced by Blue Sky Software, the developers of Robohelp. Enough said?!! ;-) Lori's right, of course -- Blue Sky's indexes are inadequate, as are many indexes prepared using embedded index entries (I know that from my own experience). However, in this case RoboHelp is not the culprit. RoboHelp is a Word for Windows add-on. It really has no indexing capabilities of its own -- all it does is help you convert the embedded index entries in Winword into the proper form for online use. The index for the printed RoboHelp manual was most likely created with Winword. Both RoboHelp and DocToHelp are extremely useful tools for converting print-based manual to online help. Neither one is of any help for indexing, unless you're willing to go "under the hood" and heavily edit the footnote entries in the individual Winword RTF files. Thomas -- if you'd like more feedback on using RoboHelp, respond to me privately. John R. Sullivan Concentric Data Systems Westborough MA 01581 ================================================================= ======== Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 10:23:29 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Re: Ergonomics, ideas about In-Reply-To: <199610071328.JAA25959@polaris.net> On Mon, 7 Oct 1996, Hilary Calvert wrote: > And what about a cartoonist - someone could have a great time with our > inventions! Yes! Yes! Who's a cartoonist out there? Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net) "Hell, we're in Pensacola!"--Gov. Lawton Chiles, Florida, who thought he was flying to Panama City ================================================================= ======== Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 10:28:44 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Re: Ergonomics, ideas about In-Reply-To: <199610071328.JAA25961@polaris.net> On Mon, 7 Oct 1996, Hilary Calvert wrote: > Errhem! We're not *all* ASI members! Some of us wade in the primordial > slime on the other side of the pond ... > > However, I'm sure we wouldn't mind being included! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can only say, by way of apology, that (1) I have not drunk sufficient amounts of caffeine yet this morning, and that (2) a tropical storm may be bearing down upon us. (Now, don't you all feel sorry for me? It's pouring in absolute, nearly horizontal waves.) Now, if we were to write such a pamphlet, perhaps we could find some indexing organizations that might be interested in publishing same. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I am sincerely mortified by my monocultural sleepiness and sloppiness. Please forgive me. Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net) "Hell, we're in Pensacola!"--Gov. Lawton Chiles, Florida, who thought he was flying to Panama City ================================================================= ======== Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 08:21:32 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Carolyn G. Weaver" Subject: Fall meeting, Pacific Northwest Chapter/ASI PACIFIC NORTHWEST CHAPTER AMERICAN SOCIETY OF INDEXERS Presents "An Indexing Software Showcase" Saturday, November 2, 1996 Noon - 3:30 pm Portland State University, Fourth Avenue Bldg. 1900 SW Fourth, Portland, Oregon Still trying to decide on the best indexing software for your purposes? Considering a move to a different product? Looking for user tips? This is your opportunity to see live demonstrations and compare the features of CINDEX and MACREX, the DOS programs most widely used by professional indexers in the U.S. and Canada, as well as to see other indexing programs that are currently available for Macintosh and Windows platforms. Louise Martin, an experienced CINDEX user, and Do Mi Stauber, a long-time MACREX advocate, will demonstrate the strengths and special features of these popular programs. There will also be opportunity for current users of these programs to ask questions and share ideas. The newly released CINDEX for the Macintosh, HyperIndex (for Macintosh), and Sky Index for Windows will all be demonstrated by Carolyn Weaver. Computer-assisted indexing has long been confined to DOS platforms. These three programs offer alternatives for Macintosh and Windows users. Location: The building we're meeting in is an office building close to the heart of downtown Portland at 1900 SW Fourth; it's a recent Portland State University acquisition near the PSU campus. The entrance, which is near the intersection of SW Hall, has large "1900" numerals above the door. Parking is available nearby in an unmarked PSU lot to the north at Fourth and Harrison, just past the Jasmine Tree restaurant on the left side of SW Fourth; this lot is not patrolled on Saturdays. There are also street parking meters and pay parking lots in the area. Directions: (1) From north of Portland: From I-5, take I-405 south across the Fremont Bridge, then take the 6th Avenue exit. Follow SW Sixth Avenue to SW Hall and turn right onto Hall for two blocks; Hall ends right in front of the building at 1900 SW Fourth. (2) From south of Portland: From I-5, take I-405 northbound, then take the 4th Avenue exit and follow SW Fourth to the 1900 block. (3) From east or west of Portland: Follow highway signs to downtown Portland. (4) From downtown Portland: Head south on SW Fifth Avenue to SW Hall and turn left onto Hall for one block. Registration (includes box lunch): $10 for ASI members; $14 for nonmembers. Prepayment required. Deadline: Tuesday, Oct. 29, 1996. Sandwich choices: Turkey or Vegetarian. Please specify below. Questions: Julie Kawabata (jkawa@teleport.com or 503-231-8029) or program chair Carolyn Weaver (cweaver@u.washington.edu or 206-543-3401) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - RSVP: Send check payable to PNW Chapter, ASI, to: Julie Kawabata, Secretary/Treasurer, PNW/ASI 927 SE Clatsop St., Portland, OR 97202 Deadline: Tuesday, October 29, 1996 Your Name____________________________________ Number Attending_____ ASI member_____ Nonmember_____ Amount Enclosed____________ Sandwich choice: Turkey_____ Vegetarian_____ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ================================================================= ======== Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 11:45:51 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Hurricane FWIW, just learned that a hurricane is headed our way; it's about 175 miles southwest of Apalachicola, a town in the Florida Panhandle not far from Tallahassee. I may be out of cyberspace for a few days. Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net) "Hell, we're in Pensacola!"--Gov. Lawton Chiles, Florida, who thought he was flying to Panama City ================================================================= ======== Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 08:42:34 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: Re: office gadgets Christine Shuttleworth wrote: >I have another very useful thing called a Supaclip. It's a gadget which >comes with a number of multi-coloured metal clips which are re-usable. You >can clip about 30 pages together at a time; it's more reliable than >ordinary paper-clips, and doesn't make holes in the paper like staples - >which is useful if you want to use the other side. I don't know if you can >get it outside the UK. Yes, we have metal clips in several sizes, but I haven't seen them multicolored--that would be fun! They are truly great invention--almost as good as post-it notes! Welcome, Christine--it's wonderful to "see" you online! Elinor Lindheimer elinorl@mcn.org ================================================================= ======== Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:13:33 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Patricia Kuhr /Subject Authority Files /6th Organization: The H.W.Wilson Company Subject: Re: Records Management > This is a call for help. I have committed to a panal presentation > and paper on "records management" for a course entitled Indexing and > Surrogation. To date, I have been able to find very little in the > literature that refers to the indexing aspect of this topic. There are several articles and one book cited in . Do a command search on the CD-ROM which should be in your LIS library for (index or indexing) and documents. Pat Kuhr Editor, Subject Authority Files H.W.Wilson Company pkuhr@info.hwwilson.com ================================================================= ======== Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 16:12:08 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JanCW@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Computerized Index, Feedback Needed In response to Thomas Farrell (farrellt@fau.campus.mci.net), who asks > Are any of you familiar with Robohelp? > What kind of problems can we expect? [snip] > I'm almost certain that none of the people working on the > project has any indexing experience. Hi Thomas, I have not used RoboHelp's indexing features, but have created keyword indexes that were then compiled by RoboHelp into a help file. RoboHelp will take K footnotes in your word files and compile them into a keyword index. What you put in those K footnotes determines whether your index comes out useful or not. If you allow RoboHelp to do it automatically, you will be unhappy with the output. But you can create a good quality keyword index, if you follow good indexing standards. And you can ignore RoboHelp's built-in features if you want. For an overview of standards in keyword indexes, see Lori Lathrop's article in the STC intercom magazine, January 96 I think. For a detailed look at issues, problems, and solutions in WinHelp 3 or WinHelp 95, see my two-part article "Working with WinHelp Keywords" in the WinHelp Journal, Winter 1996, and Spring/Summer 1996 issues. Or look for William Horton's book on Online Help, or Cheryl Zubak's book on WinHelp 95. Both are very good and have chapters on keywording help files. ================================================================= ======== Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 16:46:41 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: BethJT@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Bifocals and ergonomics Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net) commented: >My computer desk has a drawer on which I place my keyboard and my mouse >(now a touchpad). Unfortunately, there's no room between the keyboard and >the monitor to put a stand for the pages I'm indexing. Rats! Anyone have >any suggestions? I can indeed tell that looking off to the right to input >is killing my neck and back. I too have desk with a drawer/shelf for my keyboard which puts the keyboard at just the right height for comfort. I've had almost no trouble with repetitive stress injuries in the ten years that I've had this computer and desk. The only difficulty was that the shelf is not deep enough for a wrist pad or to prop up proof sheets, books, etc. I have found that I can use a Wrist Relief Plus (by Computer Coverup) which has a 3" wrist pad attached to a 9" deep shelf where the keyboard rests. This allows me to pull the keyboard out slighty past the edge of the desk shelf (with the wrist pad acting as an extension of the desk shelf supporting my wrists) and creates room to prop up material between keyboard and monitor. I bought this gadget at Office Depot for about $15 and have been very pleased with it. It even leaves room for the mouse or glidepoint (I have both). One comment about the glidepoint: I live in a very humid climate and find that I can't use a touchpad when the humidity is very high. But it is great to be able to switch back and forth whenever I feel my mousing muscles tiring. I have a Mac which tends to be very mouse intensive. The real key to avoiding repetitive stress is switch from one type of movement to another whenever you start to feel a strained muscle or joint. I also have arthritis and have found that keeping a variety of technologies, gadgets, chairs, etc. to switch around helps a lot. BTW, I have no financial interest in any of the companies or products mentioned. Beth (aka Elizabeth Tudor, The Queen of her little computer Queendom) Tudor Indexing 713-728-5590