From: SMTP%"LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu" 2-SEP-1996 19:46:19.42 To: CIRJA02 CC: Subj: File: "INDEX-L LOG9608B" Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 19:24:18 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9608B" To: CIRJA02@GSVMS1.CC.GASOU.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 04:03:29 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: EMickiT@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Portable disk drives In a message dated 96-08-07 22:37:50 EDT, Smokey writes: >The Syquest Removable Hard Drives are perfectly capable of running >apps nearly as quickly as a regular hard drive. The SCSI models are >particularly adept at this as evinced by my ability to run DOS games >from my EZ 135. Diane Worden mentioned "Storage: it's not just your hard drive anymore," in PC Novice 1996 Sept, pp.24-30. For more complete information, read the article in PC Magazine a few months ago. The PC Novice article does not mention the EZ135, which is strange as PC Magazine ranked it best in the March 12, 1996 issue. Quote: "The EZ135 handles most tasks just like a hard disk....On Winstone tests, the EZ135 puts in numbers approaching those of standard hard disks and earning the fastest results among the drives in this review. On backup tests the 135MB device also showed it could outperform higher price contenders." You can get the whole review at http://www.zdnet.com/issues/1505/pcm00063.htm or search for more reviews at http://www.zdnet.com/search.htm Maybe the confusion about the speed of removable cartridge drives comes because there are two types, SCSI and parallel port. I believe PC mag says the ones that connect to the parallel port are slower. My room mate uses a SCSI Iomega Zip drive as a hard drive on his Mac and is happy with it. I have just purchased the SCSI Syquest EZ135, but have not had time to install it. My friends who have them love them. The price of the Syquest EZ135 has just dropped 50% because they have come out with a model that stores about 230MB. Not all companies sell it at the new low price. The cheapest I found was in Texas at Bottomline Distribution at 800 347 0052. I bought it on their Internet site at http://www2.blol.com The price of the EZ135 with one disk was $118.95 and they have the lowest price on extra drives at $20.99 each. There is no shipping charge, but there is about $1 for insurance. They sell the SCSI version. If you have a Mac, you will not need anything else, but if you have a PC, you will need a SCSI card. The Iomega Zip drive sells for about $150 now and holds 100 MB, so currently the Syquest may be the better bargain. I don't know how much a SCSI adapter costs currently. I have one in my laptop PC because my external CD ROM drive is SCSI and I plan to get a scanner someday. Jonathan Sachs was concerned about reliability. I would check PC mag reviews again on that issue. There are long warranties on the drives (2 years) and the cartridges (5 years) and at $20.99 you can afford to have two identical backups. I always make two backups on floppies of any document I would be upset about losing. Sorry about the long, long message from a new person. I am a USDA student who has been lurking here for months and am grateful for all the information posted here. Hope this helps some of you with your hardware choices. Erin (Micki) Taylor Los Angeles ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 21:19:14 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey Subject: Re: Indexing WWW sites At 22:24 5/08/96 -0400, you wrote: >I am taking the same course Stephanie is taking, and the genre I have >chosen to research is WWW sites. I have some ideas myself, and our group has >found an article or two, but I would be very interested in any literature >sources (print or Internet-based) or thoughts that anyone has on this subject. > >BTW -- our presentations are due Saturday, 8/10, so timely responses would >be much appreciated. > >-- Thank you, > Mary Taffet There is a paper called Indexing The Net by Tony Barry which might be of interest to you: you can access it through his home page on http://snazzy.anu.edu.au/People/TonyB.html Hope this helps, Jonathan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Jermey & Glenda Browne, Blaxland NSW Australia E-mail - jonathan@magna.com.au Web - http://www.magna.com.au/~jonathan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I can't make up my mind whether or not to be indecisive. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 21:19:29 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey Subject: Re: Portable disk drives Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 21:09:44 To: "Indexer's Discussion Group" From: Jonathan Jermey Subject: Re: Portable disk drives At 09:21 6/08/96 -0400, you wrote: >Hello, all-- I've been lurking and enjoying the list for some months now. > Remembering the discussion some time ago about tape backup systems, I >decided it was time I got one. I also need a bigger hard drive. Here's my >question: why not get a portable hard drive, the kind with removable >cartridges, to meet both needs at once, and at lower cost? Does anyone else >use a portable drive for backup? > >Thanks-- Jenny Rowe My understanding is that portable drive systems are slower than a fixed hard disk, especially the tape-based ones. Whether this is an issue depends on your own style of working and the software you are using. Jonathan. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Jermey & Glenda Browne, Blaxland NSW Australia E-mail - jonathan@magna.com.au Web - http://www.magna.com.au/~jonathan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I can't make up my mind whether or not to be indecisive. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 10:18:22 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jennifer Rowe Subject: Re: Portable disk drives Thanks to all who've offered information about how portable drives can be used. Sorry I didn't give more specifics about my own system and intentions. I have a 486 PC, 66Mhz, with a 160MB hard drive. I would like to use a portable drive for regular backups, as Rachel, Carol, Dave, and others do, and also to run some applications that don't fit on my primary hard drive (word processors I rarely use, my daughter's Dinosaur Adventure, etc). The attraction is that buying just a portable drive is more affordable than buying a bigger hard drive and a tape backup unit. (Of course, to run the SCSI version I also need to buy a SCSI kit--is it worth it?) Also, I see a laptop somewhere in my future, and the portable drive might be used with it as well. Jenny Rowe ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 10:24:50 CDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Gerry McKiernan Subject: Project Aristotle(sm) Project Aristotle(sm) Automated Categorization of Web Resources I am pleased to announce the establishment of Project Aristotle(sm), a clearinghouse or projects and research devoted to the automated categorization of Web resources. The URL for Project Aristotle(sm) is: http://www.public.iastate.edu/~CYBERSTACKS/Aristotle.htm For each project, it's name, if known, principal investigator, project description, and relevant citations are provided. A hotlink to an available demonstration or prototype is also provided, if available. Entries are organized alphabetically by the name of the organization with which the principal investigator is affiliated. I am greatly interesting in developing this clearinghouse further and would very much appreciate the name, e-mail and/or URL of similar projects or investigations. Presently, I am only interested in projects and prototypes that have _applied_ filtering systems, text extraction and/or categorization, or agents, robots or machine learning to the categorization of Web resources. I am _not_ presently interested in work that reviews these approaches or technologies in general. I am particularly interested in current efforts which employ applicable data discovery and mining approaches to Web categorization. All additional projects and studies will be integrated within the Project Aristotle(sm) site after review. Regards, Gerry McKiernan Curator, CyberStacks(sm) Iowa State University 152 Parks Library Ames IA 50011 gerrymck@iastate.edu http://www.public.iastate.edu/~CYBERSTACKS/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 11:32:37 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Medical Terminology In a message dated 96-08-08 01:19:15 EDT, an angelic Index-eller wrote in an unsigned message: >I index medical articles for secondary publishers, and have MeSH >(medical subject heading) training. T-cells are indexed under L, for >lymphocytes. Either as "Lymphocytes, T" or (from MeSH) as T-Lymphocytes, >alphabetized within the _L_s. Since Index Medicus and MedLars set the >standards, I would follow their convention when indexing medical >subjects. A thousand thanks for that info! I've been merrily sorting T cells under the "T's" as "T lymphocytes" (no dash) all along with a See also from Lymphocytes. (Almost inevitably, I've had the need to break them out as a separate heading, BTW.) This was under the assumption that most users would first try to access them under the "T's", if not under Lymphocytes. Apparently, I've been wrong if most medical index users are accustomed to the conventions set forth in the standards you mentioned. Anyway, please tell us, if you can, where we can obtain Index Medicus and MedLars. I know that MeSH can be purchased for about $60-70 and I've downloaded portions of it (the updates) from gopher (where it doesn't exist in its entirety, BTW). I'm a strong believer in references being worth every penny in gold (or disk space). Speaking of the Net and medical terminology references there, I found (and downloaded) lists of keywords (useful for creating index entries) and acronym spellouts for immunological terms from the Journal of Immunology's web site. (Sorry, I don't have the URL at hand but a Web search engine should get you there.) They were tucked away in the submissions guidelines. I mention this because it is possible that some of the other more specialized journals on the Web may have similar information and I've found this type of info useful for resolving vocabulary control issues, identifying key topics that index users in the field are likely to access (and how), etc. One of these days I'll get around to searching other journal Web sites for similar treasure troves. (If anyone else is interested in doing this, the ASI Web site has links that will take you to Web search engines and to a wonderful list of scholarly journal web sites. The ASI Web site URL is http://www.well.com/user/asi/) Thanks again! Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 11:56:06 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Re: Medical Terminology In-Reply-To: <9608081832.AA04827@mx3.u.washington.edu> Order information for Alphabetic MeSH, the MeSH Tree Structures, and the Permuterm MeSH (all of which I consider essential as a medical indexer), as well as other NLM publications, is available on an NLM Factsheet at I don't buy a new set of MeSH indexing tools every year, but do update every 3 years or so. The other tool that I rely on heavily is the CINAHL (Cumulative Index to Nursing & Allied Health) thesaurus. It's especially useful for allied health or consumer health books. Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, Wa. e-mail: cweaver@u.washington.edu voice: 206/930-4348 On Thu, 8 Aug 1996 Wildefire@AOL.COM wrote: > In a message dated 96-08-08 01:19:15 EDT, an angelic Index-eller wrote in an > unsigned message: > > Anyway, please tell us, if you can, where we can obtain Index Medicus and > MedLars. I know that MeSH can be purchased for about $60-70 and I've > downloaded portions of it (the updates) from gopher (where it doesn't exist > in its entirety, BTW). I'm a strong believer in references being worth every > penny in gold (or disk space). > > Lynn Moncrief > TECHindex & Docs > Technical and Scientific Indexing > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 14:47:11 CDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Presley, Paula" Subject: Dutch personal names I'm editing a book (and will eventually index it) about Church Art in the Netherlands just prior to the iconoclasm of 1566. The author discussesthe work of many artists whose names end in "sz." (abbreviation for "szoon"). Could somebody let me know if it is common practice to leave the full stop after the "sz" or to remove it. The book is in English. Chicago Manual's discussion of Dutch personal names (sec. 7.10) doesn't mention the "sz." problem, nor does chap. 17 (Indexes). My inclination is to omit the full stop and simply end with "sz," but I would appreciate any clarification from those who work with this problem. Thanks. Paula P. _____________________________________________________ Paula Presley FAX 816-785-4181 VOICE 816-785-4525 Associate Editor, THOMAS JEFFERSON UNIVERSITY PRESS Copy/Production Editor, SIXTEENTH CENTURY JOURNAL MC 111-L, TRUMAN STATE UNIVERSITY 100 E. Normal St., Kirksville, MO 63501-4221 email: ppresley@truman.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 21:01:00 BST-1 Reply-To: jsampson@cix.compulink.co.uk Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John Sampson Subject: Re: Medical Terminology WRT Medlars etc., as a practising doctor I didn't know the MeSH conventions. I wouldn't assume that readers of medical textbooks will follow them when using an index, unless they spend most of their time in libraries. _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 16:34:37 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: IndexJim@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Medical Terminology MeSH and its companion books can be purchased from the Government Printing Office. The latest phone number I have is 202-512-1800. Yes, they take credit cards. I have also seen them in the GPO Bookstores. Jim Pilarski Pilarski Indexing IndexJim@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 17:08:15 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pmauer@AOL.COM Subject: Indexes vs Indices Maybe this has been discussed before, but I'm wondering about the terms Indexes vs Indices. I've just been asked *again* why we Indexers usually say indexes instead of indices. Can anyone answer this? Peg Mauer ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 17:33:02 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elliott Linder Subject: indexer-abstractor positions INDEXER-ABSTRACTORS (in-house, freelance) Chadwyck-Healey, an international publisher of databases in the humanities, seeks key people to abstract and index music periodical literature for our new electronic database. Excellent reading knowledge of French, German, Italian, Spanish, Hungarian, and/or Scandinavian languages a big plus. Keen writing skills, comfortability with computers, and ability to work accurately and efficiently under deadlines required. Abstracting/indexing experience and familiarity with musical concepts desirable. Mail or fax cover letter telling us why you are right for our team, with resume to: IIMP Editor Chadwyck-Healey Inc. 1101 King St 380 Alexandria, VA 22314-2944 Fax: (703) 683-7589 (No calls please.) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 07:26:18 CDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lonergan Lynn Subject: indexes vs indices G. Norman Knight in _Indexing, The Art of_ (p17-18): "This is shown in the often quoted passage from Shakespeare's _Troilus and Cressida_ (1603), I.3.344: And in such indexes, although small pricks To their subsequent volumes, there is seen The baby figure of the giant mass Of things to come at large. But the real importance of this passage is that it establishes for all time the correct literary plural; we can leave the Latin form 'indices' to the mathematicians (and similarly 'appendices' to the anatomists)." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Lynn A. Lonergan Assistant Editor/Librarian Air University Library Maxwell AFB AL 36112-6424 334-953-2504; fax 334-953-1192 llonergan@max1.au.af.mil ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 09:51:28 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Cynthia D. Bertelsen" Subject: Re: Medical Terminology For the CINAHL Subject Heading List (which is $60.00 plus $2.40 S/H), go to http://www.cinahl.com/SEARCH_TOOLS.html for more information. At 11:56 AM 8/8/96 -0700, you wrote: >Order information for Alphabetic MeSH, the MeSH Tree Structures, and the >Permuterm MeSH (all of which I consider essential as a medical indexer), >as well as other NLM publications, is available on an NLM Factsheet at > >I don't buy a new set of MeSH indexing tools every year, but do update >every 3 years or so. The other tool that I rely on heavily is >the CINAHL (Cumulative Index to Nursing & Allied Health) thesaurus. It's >especially useful for allied health or consumer health books. > >Carolyn Weaver >Bellevue, Wa. >e-mail: cweaver@u.washington.edu >voice: 206/930-4348 > >On Thu, 8 Aug 1996 Wildefire@AOL.COM wrote: > >> In a message dated 96-08-08 01:19:15 EDT, an angelic Index-eller wrote in an >> unsigned message: >> >> Anyway, please tell us, if you can, where we can obtain Index Medicus and >> MedLars. I know that MeSH can be purchased for about $60-70 and I've >> downloaded portions of it (the updates) from gopher (where it doesn't exist >> in its entirety, BTW). I'm a strong believer in references being worth every >> penny in gold (or disk space). >> >> Lynn Moncrief >> TECHindex & Docs >> Technical and Scientific Indexing >> > > Cynthia D. Bertelsen INDEXER http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 08:22:07 -0700 Reply-To: Carolyn Weaver Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Re: Medical Terminology In-Reply-To: <9608082245.AA11267@mx4.u.washington.edu> I'm a medical librarian who considers anything BM (Before MEDLARS) as the Dark Ages, a MEDLARS dinosaur who learned indexing at the National Library of Medicine in the days when NLM thought you had to know how to index in order to do database searching, and a freelance indexer of books and journals. When I started freelance indexing in 1991, I quickly learned the major difference between database indexing and book/journal indexing: with standalone indexes you can establish your own terms; with databases you adhere relentlessly to the controlled vocabulary! Wearing my librarian hat, I think most health professionals who do self-service searching of Medline, use a medical library's subject catalog (online or on cards), or search the printed Index Medicus or other NLM-generated indexes are familiar with MeSH even if they don't know it. Experienced Medline searchers (trained or not) quickly learn how to use MeSH headings to locate information when keyword searches bomb out, and many of our users (University of Washington Health Sciences Center) are downloading Medline records into personal information managers which are subject-organized by MeSH headings. Wearing my indexer hat, I use MeSH as an aid in identifying potential index terms/synonyms/cross refs, but do not hesitate to modify MeSH terms as needed for a particular index. In multi-authored works or a journal index where several synonyms are used for the same concept, I often use the MeSH term as the entry point (assuming the health professional users of that work are generally familiar with the terms whether or not they know it!) with cross-refs from the other terms; and I often use the "left" side of a MeSH cross reference (e.g., Athlete's Foot, see Tinea Pedis) if the non-preferred term is more prevalent _within that work_ than the preferred MeSH term. And of course, the subject I'm indexing may require more specific terms than are in MeSH. But MeSH provides an authority for (American) spelling, vocabulary control, and alphabetization that I consider an absolutely essential tool for indexing of professional-level medical literature. Whether or not the MeSH terms actually appear in the final index, the thesaurus saves me as the indexer a great deal of time in deciding which term to use and how to spell and alphabetize it. Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, Wa. e-mail: cweaver@u.washington.edu voice: 206/930-4348 On Thu, 8 Aug 1996, John Sampson wrote: > WRT Medlars etc., as a practising doctor I didn't know the MeSH > conventions. I wouldn't assume that readers of medical textbooks will > follow them when using an index, unless they spend most of their time in > libraries. > > _John Sampson_ > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 11:42:16 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Neva J. Smith" Subject: Greetings from Round Rock Paula, I haven't heard from you since Denver. Did your operation go all right? What's the scoop on your prospective visit to TX? Best from Neva = < +> = * = < +> = * = < +> = * = < + > = * = < + > = * = < + > + Neva J. Smith, MLIS DataSmiths Information Services njsmith@bga.com PO Box 2157, Round Rock, TX 78680-2157 voice/fax +1-512-244-2767 & Editor, _Library Currents_ PO Box 2199, Round Rock, TX 78680-2199 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 11:00:40 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: Indexes vs Indices My primary publishers follow styles that call for using the first spelling in the most recent Merriam-Webster. That's indexes for plural. At 05:08 PM 8/8/96 -0400, Peg wrote: >Maybe this has been discussed before, but I'm wondering about the terms >Indexes vs Indices. I've just been asked *again* why we Indexers usually say >indexes instead of indices. Can anyone answer this? > Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@powergrid.electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com http://www.electriciti.com:80/~prider/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 18:29:04 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: GLASSMANDL@AOL.COM Subject: Indexer Poll/Just for fun How did we get here??? an Informal/Unscientific/Just for fun poll. As a newcomer(finished USDA course &working on getting that 1st job), I was reading through the sage advice on my backlog of Index-L mail and wondering what routes all these people took to indexing. A slide to indexing from a publishing house or from library science seems popular, but I bet there is alot of diversity out there. Perhaps even more so in the Post Money Magazine Article Era. So just for fun e-mail me off-list(glassmandl@aol.com) with the answers to a few questions, expound, amplify or digress if you'd like, and I'll post the results or put them in Key Words if the there is enough interest. All answers confidential,names withheld to protect the innocent. 1) Are you indexing: Full time/Part time/a promising newbie? 2)If part time or a want-to-be, what is your current occupation? If full time, your primary occupation prior to indexing? A few other ?s just because I'm on a roll and curious! 3)Do you have any college training? Degree? What major? 4)What Dedicated Indexing Software do you use? None, Macrex, Cindex, Hyperindex, In>Sort, Other? 5)In what year did you create your 1st for-pay index? 6)In what state, country or on which planet do you reside? There is a ton of other stuff we'd like to know about each other, but I wanted to keep it short in hopes I'd get a good response. Thanks, Don Glassman ........still a lurker on the fringe of indexing. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 18:21:54 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Sachs Subject: Re: Portable disk drives At 10:18 AM 8/8/96 -0400, Jennifer wrote: Jennifer: What follows is my own subjective opinion. Feel free to accept or reject any of the points according to your best judgment. I assume your system has an IDE interface, and you're in the market for an IDE drive. These days you can buy a 500 MB drive for about $150. That's not a huge drive, but it's larger than your current one by a big enough factor to keep you happy for quite a while, unless you're planning a substantial change in your computing habits, like a plunge into graphics. For backup, there's several ways you can go. You can get a digital audio tape (DAT) drive for $500 - $800. With it you'll need a SCSI card, which costs about $75. You can get an IDE interface tape drive. Good, high-capacity drives cost about $200 these days. Or you can get a removeable-disk drive. When you consider using a removable-disk drive to hold extra software, think about how you'll back it up. You can back up your fixed disk on a removable disk; what can you back up a removeable disk on? The only solution is to copy stuff to your hard disk, and from there to a second removable disk. But that's awkward and slow, and your time is worth money. Be aware of the "hidden cost" of backup media. The IDE tape drive's tapes have a capacity of 1 to 2 GB, and cost $25 to $35 each. I'm not sure what the removeable disks cost, but they're certainly even more expensive per megabyte. DAT tapes hold 2 to 4 GB and cost about $10 or less. You don't have to buy a lot of tapes or disks before the DAT drive starts to look like a bargain. "How many tapes do I need, anyway?" you may ask. It depends on how secure you want your data to be. Here's what I've found: hard disk failures are rather rare these days. I haven't suffered one for about ten years! Unless your computer is stolen, burned, or dropped off a cliff, you may well reach the end of your career without ever having to recover from a hard disk failure. User errors, on the other hand, are rather common. I use my backups to restore deleted files about once a month. They may be files I just deleted or overwrote by accident... or they may be files that I deleted months ago, and quite unforeseeably need again. In the latter case, I rely on the fact that I cycle through a pool of about a dozen full-backup tapes and another dozen incremental-backup tapes, so that the odds are I can recover anything I've deleted in the last year. If I had just one or two tapes, I'd be up the creek with no paddle. If I were you, I'd look for a medium-size fixed disk, a low-end DAT drive, and an economical SCSI controller. Total cost, probably something like $750. Throw in a half dozen tapes, and it's $800. As a free bonus, you can get a SCSI PC Card when you buy your portable ($100 to $150) and use the tape drive to back up the portable, too. Regarding speed and reliability, I won't debate the specific points Erin raised, not having any of the relevant sources on hand. I'll add a general note of caution, though: anyone who buys products in reliance on reviews published in the popular technical press is living dangerously. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 10:21:51 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey Subject: Re: Medical Terminology At 11:32 8/08/96 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 96-08-08 01:19:15 EDT, an angelic Index-eller wrote in an >unsigned message: > >>I index medical articles for secondary publishers, and have MeSH >>(medical subject heading) training. T-cells are indexed under L, for >>lymphocytes. Either as "Lymphocytes, T" or (from MeSH) as T-Lymphocytes, >>alphabetized within the _L_s. Since Index Medicus and MedLars set the >>standards, I would follow their convention when indexing medical >>subjects. > >A thousand thanks for that info! I've been merrily sorting T cells under the >"T's" as "T lymphocytes" (no dash) all along with a See also from >Lymphocytes. (Almost inevitably, I've had the need to break them out as a >separate heading, BTW.) This was under the assumption that most users would >first try to access them under the "T's", if not under Lymphocytes. >Apparently, I've been wrong if most medical index users are accustomed to the >conventions set forth in the standards you mentioned. > I think the best guide to the words index users will look up in the index is the words used in the book we are indexing. These should represent current usage of a practitioner in the field. MeSH is useful for ensuring that words are used consistently in a library catalogue or a database, but by its very nature is likely to be behind the times in certain areas. It also has to chose a level of specificity which might not be appropriate for a book index. Finally there are aspects of MeSH which I believe have not kept up with current ideas in indexing (e.g. now we prefer natural word order rather than inversion). I personally have no qualms about using 'T cells' as the entry (filed under T) with references from alternative access points. To have not even a reference from 'T cells' would, I believe, do the users a great disservice. Cheers, Glenda. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Jermey & Glenda Browne, Blaxland NSW Australia E-mail - jonathan@magna.com.au Web - http://www.magna.com.au/~jonathan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I can't make up my mind whether or not to be indecisive. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 01:19:51 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Medical Terminology Re T cells and MeSH, I would like to thank Glenda for her remarks regarding putting things where the user is likely to look them up. To me this point of view is right on! Conventions such as those seen in MeSH and other database products have long histories and reasons for being that way, I'm sure. But in creating an index, I have always felt that my task as an indexer is to enable my audience, the index user, to find things in the shortest possible time, with the least number of "look-ups". It's a usability thing for me. I am creating a tool that provides pathways into the information contained in the book. The terminology in the book, as well as current terminology in the field or industry, dictate where to locate a body of information. The body of information should always be where it is most likely to be found. Thus T-Lymphocytes placed alphabetically under L would not fulfill this requirement. I don't think I or anybody I know would look there. There are many terms that begin with the term T-cell ...., such as T-cell leukemia, T-cell mediated something, etc. So they go under T, and so does T cells. This is a lot like situational management. The hard and fast rules don't always serve us. Sometimes, the necessities or conditions in a given situation dictate the best solution. It is always important, IMHO, for the indexer to remember that he/she is driven by the needs of the index user, not by the need to conform to a standard carried over from "the experts". Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 05:25:15 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: EMickiT@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Indexer Poll/Just for fun In a message dated 96-08-09 18:29:33 EDT, you propose an interesting project. To make it easier to read, I'll start my answers with the @ symbol. >1) Are you indexing: Full time/Part time/a promising newbie? >@ Newbie--USDA student >2)If part time or a want-to-be, what is your current >occupation? If full time, your primary occupation prior to indexing? >@current--medical research >A few other ?s just because I'm on a roll and curious! >3)Do you have any college training? Degree? What major? >@ BS in English and Theatre, MS in Public Health >4)What Dedicated Indexing Software do you use? None, Macrex, Cindex, >Hyperindex, In>Sort, Other? >@just bought Cindex >5)In what year did you create your 1st for-pay index? > >6)In what state, country or on which planet do you reside? >@LA--I think it counts as a planet. > Micki ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 11:04:35 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Clare Beghtol Organization: Faculty of Information Studies Subject: To listowner, please read I would like to unsubscribe to Index-l, but my address has changed. When I subscribed, my address was beghtol@flis.utoronto.ca Now my address is beghtol@FIS.utoronto.ca Thanks very much for your help. Clare Beghtol Clare Beghtol University of Toronto Faculty of Information Studies (416) 978-8852 (voice) (416) 971-1399 (fax) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 13:11:25 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Indexing Skills Workshop for Technical Communicators fyi ... If any of you are interested in the one-day version of my Indexing Skills Workshop for Technical Communicators, here's my schedule between now and the end of the year: September 28 East Bay Chapter, Society for Technical Communication Hilton Hotel, Pleasanton, CA November 9 Society for Technical Communication, Panama City, FL (location to be determined) November 15 Holiday Inn, Mesa, AZ In addition to the above workshops, I'll be delivering my workshop, Editing Indexes for Quality & Usability, on November 16 for the ASI Arizona chapter-in-formation. If you would like to receive a flyer or more information on any of these workshops, please contact me. Lori ****************************************************************** Lori Lathrop ----------> INTERNET:76620.456@compuserve.com Lathrop Media Services, P.O. Box 3065, Idaho Springs, CO 80452 Office: 303-567-4447, ext. 28 / Fax: 303-567-9306 ****************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 06:59:31 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Medical Terminology In a message dated 96-08-10 12:00:10 EDT, you write: > Thus T-Lymphocytes placed alphabetically under L would not fulfill this > requirement. I don't think I or anybody I know would look there. There are > many terms that begin with the term T-cell ...., such as T-cell leukemia, > T-cell mediated something, etc. So they go under T, and so does T cells. > > This is a lot like situational management. The hard and fast rules don't > always serve us. Sometimes, the necessities or conditions in a given > situation dictate the best solution. It is always important, IMHO, for the > indexer to remember that he/she is driven by the needs of the index user, > not > by the need to conform to a standard carried over from "the experts". > Janet, I agree with you totally!!!! I admit that I was quite surprised that MeSH handles it differently (and thus my wondering if medical index users were more likely to access things according to its conventions instead of what seemed most obvious). So, it was quite a relief to hear from you and others (including a practicing physician) that it is indeed appropriate to file T cells under the "T's" as I had been doing. Whew!! ;-D (Now, I don't have to lose sleep over this issue, just over all the indexes sitting here to be done.) And, you're quite right about what should be the bottom line in indexing--how would users actually try to retrieve the information. While I'm here, I want to heartily thank everyone who responded to my question about obtaining MeSH and other medical references. Though their filing conventions shouldn't be slavishly adhered to, they're still worth their weight on the bookshelf for resolving those "are these terms totally synonymous" and "is this a subset/superset of this" type of things. Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 21:19:26 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: Indexer Poll/Just for fun Good idea! >1) Are you indexing: Full time/Part time/a promising newbie? Part time, moving slowly to full time. >2)If part time or a want-to-be, what is your current >occupation? If full time, your primary occupation prior to indexing? Part time pshychiatric emergency services clinician >A few other ?s just because I'm on a roll and curious! >3)Do you have any college training? Degree? What major? BA English, MA psychology >4)What Dedicated Indexing Software do you use? None, Macrex, Cindex, >Hyperindex, In>Sort, Other? HyperIndex, will move to Cindex when it's available for Mac >5)In what year did you create your 1st for-pay index? 1995 >6)In what state, country or on which planet do you reside? Martha's Vineyard Island, Massachusetts Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Chilmark, Mass. rachelr@tiac.net; http://www.tiac.net/users/rachelr/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 07:19:10 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Cynthia D. Bertelsen" Subject: Re: Indexer Poll/Just for fun Rachel, CINDEX for MAC is now available; look on page 47 of the latest Keywords. >>4)What Dedicated Indexing Software do you use? None, Macrex, Cindex, >>Hyperindex, In>Sort, Other? > >HyperIndex, will move to Cindex when it's available for Mac > > Rachel Rice > Directions Unlimited Desktop Services > Chilmark, Mass. > rachelr@tiac.net; http://www.tiac.net/users/rachelr/ > > Cynthia D. Bertelsen INDEXER http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 07:52:14 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: Indexer Poll/Just for fun Hi Cynthia, THANKS! I thought they said they would notify us when ready. I hadn't meant to send my reply to the whole list. I haven't told Andre of HyperIndex that I'm abandoning his baby. I hope he isn't hurt. Thanks for taking the time to let me know. RR >Rachel, > >CINDEX for MAC is now available; look on page 47 of the latest Keywords. > >>>4)What Dedicated Indexing Software do you use? None, Macrex, Cindex, >>>Hyperindex, In>Sort, Other? >> >>HyperIndex, will move to Cindex when it's available for Mac >> > >> Rachel Rice >> Directions Unlimited Desktop Services >> Chilmark, Mass. >> rachelr@tiac.net; http://www.tiac.net/users/rachelr/ >> >> >Cynthia D. Bertelsen >INDEXER >http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Chilmark, Mass. rachelr@tiac.net; http://www.tiac.net/users/rachelr/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 08:44:03 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Converted from OV/VM to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X From: NASEM020@SIVM.SI.EDU Subject: Re: Medical Terminology In-Reply-To: note of 08/08/96 11:34 I fear I'm going to shake the tree on this one. Does anyone wonder why the foremost medical indexing facility adheres to a "different" standard? Could consistency in terminology play a role here? I've seen posts to Index-L in the past where a knowledgeable indexer has detected an error in usage on an authors' part, and wondered whether to index the author's term as an entry point or a cross-post to the correct term. While I agree with using authors' terminology, I feel we are indexing _concepts_, not simply words. In keeping with the idea of unlocking the knowledge in a given book, an indexer must be aware of _all_ terms a user might consider when searching for information. T-cell/lymphocyte is clearly one where the vernacular term should be crossed with the generic. If an author uses the term T-cell, I would make certain it is in reference to thymus-derived lymphocytes, and is not a shorthand term for some other cell of the author's choosing (authors being who they are, they sometimes invent terms, trying to get their 15 minutes in history.) I've seen alot of indexers misusing vernacular terms, perpetuating errors make by authors. I've also been the victim of indexers unfamiliar with a given area and following along with authors' novel uses of old terms. As a graduate student doing research, I've often wished I knew what the secret handshake was to find information in some indexes. If I searched an index for cells involved in immune reactions, I wouldn't want to go to _T_ for T-cells, _N_ for natural killer cells, _B_ for B-cells, _M_ for monocytes, etc. I would look under _L_ for lymphocytes and hope to see listed the various kinds the author discusses and where in the text the subpopulations are shown. I wouldn't look under _C_ for cells because that is too general. If I was only interested in T-cells, as in some lab tests mentioned earlier, then I might look under _T_ just for a discussion of those cells, but I would still look under _L_ first (because of the ruts in my brain from indexing one way so long)! As a user of indexes, and a creator, I hope that when we accept contracts in fields outside our individual areas of expertise, we do research to familiarize ourselves with the usage of terms, the correct application of terms, and the concepts underlying the organization of the subject in order to create an index that illuminates, rather than obscures the information within a text. As others have said before me: just my .02. I'm stepping down off the box now. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 23:07:45 +1100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Australian Society of Indexers Subject: PAPER: Garry Cousins: Conceptual indexing for CD-ROMs: beyond free text searching Greetings all you merrymakers!! The Australian Society of Indexers has loaded another paper on its Web site Garry Cousins: Conceptual indexing for CD-ROMs: beyond free text searching Its URL is: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi/cousinsg.html or go to http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi and follow the signs... :) It is a very interesting paper on combining free text searching with human indexing. Garry describes how he mixes the two indexing straight from the screen - no paper proofs! Happy reading. More to come - at least 5 more... So stay tuned. Dwight ------- Dwight Walker Webmaster and Editor Australian Society of Indexers +61-2-3986726 (h) +61-2-4393750 (w) W-F, fax +61-2-4383729 (w) URL: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 10:37:07 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jean A. Thompson" Subject: Re: Medical Terminology Earlier Lyn wrote: "Does anyone wonder why the foremost medical indexing facility adheres to a 'different' standard? Could consistency in terminology play a role here?" As a library cataloger, I haven't dealt much with MeSH but I have with Library of Congress Subject Headings (LCSH), the standard adhered to (more or less faithfully) by most American libraries. When referring to such large, standard lists of terms as LCSH or MeSH, keep in mind that they are created as "one size fits all" and "for the ages" thesauri. Indexers may want to refer to them to aid their own process of constructing a thesauus for the project in hand, but keep in mind their limitations. These are limitations that, even for me as a book cataloger, can be troublesome. I _must_ adhere to the terms in the standard list even though I know the modern user will not look under the term I am obligated to use. Terminology can get "stuck" in an earlier era or the modern term I need may not have been added to the list yet. The process of adding to, changing, or deleting from these lists is a long one, undoubtedly done "by committee" and one that is not done hastily. If terminology in an area is in flux, the committee is likely to wait until some consensus among people writing in that area emerges. However, as library catalogs are automated these changes are much easier to make and terminology should become more "modern" and therefore more useful to the unsuspecting public seeking information, data, and knowledge. Even so, the "one size fits all" problem remains. Take, for example, the problem of a book about horse-drawn coaches. I am referred in LCSH under "Coaches" to the terms, "Carriages and carts" and "Coaching." (Never mind that coaches is a plural noun and coaching a gerund--go figure.) I can't use coaches because that's "Coaches (Athletic)". "Coaching" is used for "Coaches," "Riding," "Stagecoach lines" and "Stagecoaches." If you want the athletic sense of the word, it follows as "Coaching (Athletics)." And until recently the list did not include the term "World Wide Web." The first books we added to the collection on the subject had to be placed under other, "in the neighborhood" terms that I'm sure were not helpful to anyone. Keep these limitations in mind as you make use of what we library cataogers have been up to in our large, standard lists. My .02--or are we having an end of summer sale? ******************************************************************************** Jean A. Thompson PHONE: (518) 442-3628 Monographic Cataloger FAX: (518) 442-3630 University at Albany/SUNY University Library, B-35 E-MAIL: thompson@cnsvax.albany.edu 1400 Washington Avenue Albany, NY 12222 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 10:59:05 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jean A. Thompson" From: ALBANY::THOMPSON "Jean A. Thompson" 12-AUG-1996 10:54:01.80 To: IN%"INDEX-L%BINGVBM.bitnet@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU" CC: THOMPSON Subj: Library of Congress Authorities manuscript requests Please excuse addressing the whole list on this topic, but I want to let the 20-25 Index-ellers who have requested a copy of my manuscript know what the hold up is. My manuscript is 96 pages and is not entirely in electronic form as it consists to a large extent of examples of records found in the LC database of authority records. Also, I acted on impulse and did not check with the publisher, American Society of Indexers, to see if it's O.K. with them! I have your messages to me and will get back to you when I figure this out. In the mean time I have looked up names for two people with fair success, so if you're in the midst of a project and would like to ask me to help with names, please e-mail me. ******************************************************************************** Jean A. Thompson PHONE: (518) 442-3628 Monographic Cataloger FAX: (518) 442-3630 University at Albany/SUNY University Library, B-35 E-MAIL: thompson@cnsvax.albany.edu 1400 Washington Avenue Albany, NY 12222 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 11:18:12 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Indexer Poll/Just for fun >1) Are you indexing: Full time/Part time/a promising newbie? Full-time. > >2)If part time or a want-to-be, what is your current >occupation? If full time, your primary occupation prior to indexing? Editor (and grad student before that). > >A few other ?s just because I'm on a roll and curious! >3)Do you have any college training? Degree? What major? Two MAs is philosophy; BA in philosophy and math. > >4)What Dedicated Indexing Software do you use? None, Macrex, Cindex, >Hyperindex, In>Sort, Other? HyperIndex. > >5)In what year did you create your 1st for-pay index? 1992. > >6)In what state, country or on which planet do you reside? Wisconsin. If you get enough responses, it would be interesting to see the results tabulated. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | Life is good. Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | Milwaukee, WI | ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 12:44:40 +0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Laurie D. T. Mann" Subject: Re: Indexer Poll/Just for fun (fwd) Hi, I'm new to this list. My background is full of free lance writing, technical typesetting, technical writing and Web page construction. >1) Are you indexing: Full time/Part time/a promising newbie? I'm not doing "traditional" indexing at the current time, but I do build WWW hotlists pretty regularly. >2)If part time or a want-to-be, what is your current >occupation? If full time, your primary occupation prior to indexing? writer >A few other ?s just because I'm on a roll and curious! >3)Do you have any college training? Degree? What major? Three years of an English major, and about twelve years in various aspects of technical publication after that. >4)What Dedicated Indexing Software do you use? None, Macrex, Cindex, >Hyperindex, In>Sort, Other? I haven't used any of those programs. >5)In what year did you create your 1st for-pay index? 1985 >6)In what state, country or on which planet do you reside? Pennsylvania Laurie D. T. Mann Free Lance Web Consulting lmann@telerama.lm.com GetOnline! http://worcester.lm.com/getonline/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 09:47:58 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Stern Stern Subject: Your Howard Stern e-Mail has been received Hi Indexer's, This message has been sent automatically. Thank you for contacting "stern@urshan.com". Due to the massive amounts of e-Mail received daily, your message will probably go unanswered. We have created the Usenet newsgroup: alt.binaries.howard-stern If you do not get this newsgroup, ask your News Administrator to carry it. Howard's FAX # at WXRK (where he does his show) is: (212) 759-5329. We have over 200 megs of Stern Images and Sounds. They are almost all back online. Be sure to pick up a copy of the documentary video "In Howard We Trust" only available from our Web Site: http://www.urshan.com/stern And remember, if you do not get e-Mail from Howard..."It doesn't matter!" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 11:10:29 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: Medical Terminology At 10:37 AM 8/12/96 -0500, you wrote: >Earlier Lyn wrote: "Does anyone wonder why the foremost medical indexing >facility adheres to a 'different' standard? Could consistency in >terminology play a role here?" > I strongly believe that back-of-the-book indexes need to use the terminology and emphasis of the book indexed. If the experienced indexer recognizes that readers might search other terms, these can be cross referenced to the applicable main headings. Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@powergrid.electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com http://www.electriciti.com:80/~prider/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 12:14:06 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dennis Ward Can anyone recommend software for building and maintaining thesauri? Pointers to reviews would also be of interest - I turned up some information but it was all about 5 or 6 years old. We are looking for a program that will run under DOS or Windows (though Linux is also a possibility). Our basic requirements are that it be reliable, easy to use and reasonably inexpensive (ideally no more than a few hundred $). We also need some import/export capability, as we will be using existing thesauri in some cases, and will want to make linkages to existing database systems. Apologies if this is a common question - I had a look through the list archives and didn't find any relevant messages. TIA, Dennis Ward SLIS, University of Alberta ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 14:18:51 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Medical Terminology In a message dated 96-08-12 09:18:44 EDT, wrote: > > I fear I'm going to shake the tree on this one. > > Does anyone wonder why the foremost medical indexing facility adheres to > a "different" standard? Could consistency in terminology play a role > here? Lyn(?) , You raise a good question here, but are we dealing with database indexing rather than book indexing? In terms of book indexing, while consistency in terminology is important, I don't think it is something that should necessarily be imposed from above, valuable as standards are for other reasons you gave in your post. 1) The medical indexing facility you mentioned probably has a large group of indexers working for it, possibly on the same document sets (or database) and therefore needs to maintain consistency among the indexers. 2) While consistency is extremely important in book indexing, it is even more important (IMHO) to try to determine how the readership will try to retrieve terms, regardless of what the standards say. And, as Jean pointed out, users may try to retrieve terms differently than what is specified in the standard. I think of consistency in an index as mainly being an issue that is internal to the particular index itself and the specific book it maps, along with reader usage. We're not totally disagreeing here, BTW, because we have the same objective of using terminology that index users are likely to use. >I've seen posts to Index-L in the past where a knowledgeable > indexer has detected an error in usage on an authors' part, and wondered > whether to index the author's term as an entry point or a cross-post to > the correct term. While I agree with using authors' terminology, I feel > we are indexing _concepts_, not simply words. I agree that we are indeed indexing *concepts" and not simply words. I too have encountered errors in usage on the author's part (not so much in medical texts, but other technical books) and it's a difficult issue to deal with where the indexer has to account for the needs of two different types of readers. There are those readers whose only introduction to the concept at issue is via the words of that particular author. Those readers are likely to access the term using the variant (however incorrect) that the author used. OTOH, there are those readers who know the proper term and expect to retrieve it (or at least a cross reference) there. Plus, some of them may not have seen the author's usage yet. I lean toward using the author's term (however oddball) with a See reference from the proper term (if the list of subentries, if any, is way too long to permit double posting, which is far preferable to a See reference). For one, the See reference or double posting tells knowledgeable readers that, at least the indexer knows the proper term even if the author doesn't, in addition to serving their needs. Secondly, writing a See reference at the improper term pointing to the correct term, tells the author, the editor who didn't correct it for some reason, and those who don't know any better that "regardless of what you think, this is the term that I, the indexer, feel is correct". This could be impolitic, especially if the author is instrumental in bringing more business your way. (Though, to be honest, I'd rather not index future books by a truly incompetent author or are so poorly edited. Plus I hate pointing to truly erroneous information and do so only because my role is to point to the text, not specifically to educate the reader in the subject.) > > In keeping with the idea of unlocking the knowledge in a given book, an > indexer must be aware of _all_ terms a user might consider when > searching for information. T-cell/lymphocyte is clearly one where the > vernacular term should be crossed with the generic. If an author uses > the term T-cell, I would make certain it is in reference to > thymus-derived lymphocytes, and is not a shorthand term for some other > cell of the author's choosing (authors being who they are, they sometimes > invent terms, trying to get their 15 minutes in history.) And those authors usually get at least 15 minutes of groaning by me, at minimum. Now, in the case of those gnarly T-cell/lymphocytes (discussed here so much recently that you'd think this was an AIDS patients discussion list with everyone agonizing over their CD4 counts), the term T-*cell* is most obviously the vernacular form, that the intended audience probably wouldn't even think of looking for them under "cells". I don't think it should be the target of a cross reference from "cells", which is too far up in the conceptual hierarchy, though it definitely should be referenced from "lymphocytes". (Or did you mean from "T-cells"? That probably wouldn't be necessary as they're likely to be adjacent in the index.) However, I strongly believe that some folks, including some who know they are lymphocytes, will first look under the "T's" where at minimum there should be a cross reference. (Maybe it's only simply because of the subtle inflection we use when we vocalize the term, saying *T* cells vs. t-CELLS. ;-D) And, this is not at all to imply that you are wrong or weird for accessing them first under "lymphocytes", BTW. Indexes must meet the needs of that vast number of readers with your retrieval patterns as well. I've also posted them under "lymphocytes" when the references to them aren't too frequent or complex. At minimum, I create a See also from there if I must break them out separately, saving the lymphocytes heading for concepts relating to lymphocytes in general. What hasn't really been stated explicitly here in this discussion (except in my very first post on the subject) is that part of this issue is really a permutation of the "to classify" or "not classify" threads that convulse us here every so often. (Shaking the tree here, hoping that Kevin Mulrooney, my favorite apostle of the anti-classification credo, will flutter from his branch and chime in. ;-D) I straddle the fence on the issue, preferring to deal with it on an index-by-index basis, totally eschewing it when it will take me down too far in subentry levels or make the subentry list way so long that the user could get lost. This is particularly true when the audience is sophisticated enough to know the subsets of a concept. (See below.) If Kevin were here , he might say that you could end up with inconsistencies by classifying some things under a heading, but not others (with nary a cross-reference) that are not known by the indexer to be part of the same set of concepts or that the indexer just forgot to post them there. And, I'd agree with him. For example, if we classified T- and B-lymphocytes under "lymphocytes", but not "natural killer cells" due to ignorance or oversight, we'd end up with an inconsistency. But, your statement (which I shouldn't have snipped) about wanting to see the types of lymphocytes discussed in the book under "lymphocytes" lends validity to the "classification" side of the debate. This would also be helpful to those who aren't knowledgeable enough about a subject to be more than baffled by a general cross reference to see specific types of lymphocytes. (How in the heck would I know what they are, the not-so-gentle reader asks. If I did, I wouldn't be reading this book! ;-D) > > As a user of indexes, and a creator, I hope that when we accept > contracts in fields outside our individual areas of expertise, we do > research to familiarize ourselves with the usage of terms, the correct > application of terms, and the concepts underlying the organization of > the subject in order to create an index that illuminates, rather than > obscures the information within a text. I couldn't agree with you more! And, that's why, despite the impression I may have given above about "standards", I find them invaluable. You've presented a lot of food for thought here!! Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 11:50:37 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kari Bero Subject: Re: thesaurus software In-Reply-To: <199608121815.NAA22312@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu> Dennis Ward asked about thesaurus management software. The ASI Web Site has recently added a few pages of thesaurus information written by Jessica Milstead, which includes a list of existing thesaurus management software. You can see this information at http://www.well.com/user/asi under the "Thesaurus Information" link. For those of you without web access, I've included the list below. Hope this helps. -Kari -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Kari J. Bero Bero-West Indexing Services 206-937-3673 3722 Beach Drive SW, Suite 101 bero@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu Seattle, WA 98116 http://alexia.lis.uiuc.edu/~bero/ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% THESAURUS MANAGEMENT SOFTWARE PACKAGES BASISplus Mainframe DBMS module Phone: 1-800-DATA-MGT Email: gmiller@idi.oclc.org Bibliotech PC or mainframe DBMS module; Windows 3.1, Windows 95, Unix Email: comstow@delphi.com BRS/SEARCH PC or mainframe DBMS module, DOS Phone: 617-621-0820 Energy Science & Technology Software Center Mainframe Standalone; DEC VAX Email: estsc@adonis.osti.gov IBM Thesaurus Administrator PC Standalone; OS/2 Phone (U.S.): 1-800-342-6672 (ext. 142) Phone (Europe): +45-3252-6588 Email: srchmgr@de.ibm.com Information Navigator PC Standalone and DBMS module; DOS Phone: 617-722-0808 LEXICO/2 PC or mainframe Standalone; OS/2, Unix Phone: 301-652-5306 Email: mcc@pmei.com MTM PC or mainframe DBMS module (CDS/ISIS) Email: Alice.Watson@oecd.org MultiTes PC Standalone; Windows 3.1, Windows 95 Email: multites@aol.com STAR PC or mainframe DBMS module; DOS Phone: 800-366-1390 STRIDE DBMS module; available separately; Windows 3.1 Email: boz@questans.demon.co.uk TCS PC Standalone; Windows 3.1, Windows 95 Email: liupalmer@aol.com %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 12:56:26 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Horowitz Subject: Re: thesaurus software In-Reply-To: <199608121857.LAA14027@mail6> Jessica will be offering a class on Thesaurus software at the American Society for Information Science Meeting in October (it is in Baltimore) For more info you can check out ASIS home page at http://www.asis.org Roberta Horowitz roberta@netcom.com On Mon, 12 Aug 1996, Kari Bero wrote: > Dennis Ward asked about thesaurus management software. The ASI Web Site > has recently added a few pages of thesaurus information written by > Jessica Milstead, which includes a list of existing thesaurus management > software. You can see this information at http://www.well.com/user/asi > under the "Thesaurus Information" link. For those of you without web > access, I've included the list below. Hope this helps. > -Kari > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Kari J. Bero > Bero-West Indexing Services 206-937-3673 > 3722 Beach Drive SW, Suite 101 bero@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu > Seattle, WA 98116 http://alexia.lis.uiuc.edu/~bero/ > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > THESAURUS MANAGEMENT SOFTWARE PACKAGES > > BASISplus > Mainframe > DBMS module > Phone: 1-800-DATA-MGT > Email: gmiller@idi.oclc.org > Bibliotech > PC or mainframe > DBMS module; Windows 3.1, Windows 95, Unix > Email: comstow@delphi.com > BRS/SEARCH > PC or mainframe > DBMS module, DOS > Phone: 617-621-0820 > Energy Science & Technology Software Center > Mainframe > Standalone; DEC VAX > Email: estsc@adonis.osti.gov > IBM Thesaurus Administrator > PC > Standalone; OS/2 > Phone (U.S.): 1-800-342-6672 (ext. 142) Phone (Europe): +45-3252-6588 > Email: srchmgr@de.ibm.com > Information Navigator > PC > Standalone and DBMS module; DOS > Phone: 617-722-0808 > LEXICO/2 > PC or mainframe > Standalone; OS/2, Unix > Phone: 301-652-5306 > Email: mcc@pmei.com > MTM > PC or mainframe > DBMS module (CDS/ISIS) > Email: Alice.Watson@oecd.org > MultiTes > PC > Standalone; Windows 3.1, Windows 95 > Email: multites@aol.com > STAR > PC or mainframe > DBMS module; DOS > Phone: 800-366-1390 > STRIDE > DBMS module; available separately; Windows 3.1 > Email: boz@questans.demon.co.uk > TCS > PC > Standalone; Windows 3.1, Windows 95 > Email: liupalmer@aol.com > %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 16:08:16 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli@AOL.COM Subject: Confession/query I'd like to ask your advice not on a technical indexing matter, but rather one that deals with client relationships and my own education as an indexer. Last December I indexed a rather lengthy collection of essays on French history for Columbia University Press. In my then state of ignorance (it was only my fifth book and I had been indexing for less than a year), I produced separate name and subject indexes (but I did include cross-references between them when necessary) (ducking the rotten tomatoes sure to be thrown). It turns out the book was the first of three volumes of essays to be taken from a seven-volume collection in the original French. I have gotten word from the editor that he wants me to produce the index for the second volume, which is supposed to be in proofs in October. And he said to just do what Idid last time, "it was perfect." My dilemma is this. I now realize that there was no reason for separate name and subject indexes. Do I go ahead and produce separate indexes for the second volume of the series to keep it consistent with the first and because the editor liked it that way? Do I try to tell him that there should really only be a single, combined index? But how do I do that without looking stupid for having produced separate indexes for the first volume? If I do produce a single index for volume 2, will that be confusing to readers when volume 1 has two indexes? Any guidance/counsel would be greatly appreciated. Fred Leise "Between the Lines" Indexing and Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 16:38:24 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marie-Lise Shams Subject: Re: Confession/query (fwd) This is my own personal opinion as a "user": For literary works I like it better when the names index is separate from the terms index, especially if the list of names covered in the work is a lengthy one, which is probably the case in a multivolume work. Marie-Lise ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^ Marie-Lise Shams ^ ^ Information Specialist ^ ^ Consortium for International Earth ^ ^ Science Information Network (CIESIN) ^ ^ 2250 Pierce Road ^ ^ University Center Michigan 48710 ^ ^ phone: +1-517-797-2790 ^ ^ fax: +1-517-797-2622 ^ ^ e-mail: mshams@ciesin.org ^ ^ URL: http://www.ciesin.org ^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ On Mon, 12 Aug 1996 Locatelli@AOL.COM wrote: > I'd like to ask your advice not on a technical indexing matter, but rather > one that deals with client relationships and my own education as an indexer. > > Last December I indexed a rather lengthy collection of essays on French > history for Columbia University Press. In my then state of ignorance (it was > only my fifth book and I had been indexing for less than a year), I produced > separate name and subject indexes (but I did include cross-references between > them when necessary) (ducking the rotten tomatoes sure to be thrown). > > It turns out the book was the first of three volumes of essays to be taken > from a seven-volume collection in the original French. I have gotten word > from the editor that he wants me to produce the index for the second volume, > which is supposed to be in proofs in October. And he said to just do what > Idid last time, "it was perfect." > > My dilemma is this. I now realize that there was no reason for separate name > and subject indexes. Do I go ahead and produce separate indexes for the > second volume of the series to keep it consistent with the first and because > the editor liked it that way? Do I try to tell him that there should really > only be a single, combined index? But how do I do that without looking stupid > for having produced separate indexes for the first volume? If I do produce a > single index for volume 2, will that be confusing to readers when volume 1 > has two indexes? > > Any guidance/counsel would be greatly appreciated. > > Fred Leise > "Between the Lines" Indexing and Editorial Services > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 16:57:42 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Helen Schinske Subject: Re: Your Howard Stern e-Mail has been received In a message dated 96-08-12 12:52:34 EDT, you write: >Hi Indexer's, > >This message has been sent automatically. > >Thank you for contacting "stern@urshan.com". Due to the massive amounts >of e-Mail received daily, your message will probably go unanswered. Is this spam, or what? Charlotte, where are you? Who, if anyone, actually wrote to Howard? --Helen Schinske "Spam? Spam? No thank you, ma'am!" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 14:06:50 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: Confession/query At 04:08 PM 8/12/96 -0400, you wrote: >I'd like to ask your advice not on a technical indexing matter, but rather >one that deals with client relationships and my own education as an indexer. > In a multivolume work, one should also consider the readers/users. I would assume readers would appreciate consistent indexing. Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@powergrid.electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com http://www.electriciti.com:80/~prider/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 17:21:16 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Karl E. Vogel" Organization: Control Data Systems Inc. Subject: Re: Your Howard Stern e-Mail has been received >> On Mon, 12 Aug 1996 16:57:42 -0400, >> "Indexer's Discussion Group" said: Helen> Is this spam, or what? Charlotte, where are you? Who, if anyone, Helen> actually wrote to Howard? I already sent a message to the postmaster there about someone's automatic mail-reply generator being out of whack. -- Karl Vogel vogelke@c17.wpafb.af.mil 513-255-3688 Control Data Systems, Inc. ASC/YCOA, Wright-Patterson AFB, OH 45433 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 17:53:16 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: KINGH@SNYSYRV1.BITNET Subject: Re: Medical Terminology I think using MeSH to achieve consistency, for spelling, for definitions, and for grouping synonyms under a common heading is proper but I also think that we need to be true to the author(s). What terms we use to index a particular book depend on the terms that the author(s) use. The reader should not turn to a page looking for a MeSH term and not find it. MeSH might also be too fine because it is designed for the periodical literature. And like any thesaurus, it may not carry certain terms even though they may be widely used because the experts that continually review new terms may not approve of them or the way they are being used/misused. Also, we must consider the target audience. If they are unfamiliar with medical terminology in general (students, consumers), MeSH is inappropriate unless supplemented by many cross references and double posts. IMHO Hannah King kingh@vax.cs.hscsyr.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 18:15:04 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MrsIndex@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Your Howard Stern e-Mail has been received It -must- be spam. "Hi, indexer's" meets the spam test. Allison Brook's ;-) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 19:14:14 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kat Nagel/MasterWork Subject: Re: Indexer Poll/Just for fun >>1) Are you indexing: Full time/Part time/a promising newbie? Part time, as part of several writing contracts over the last few years. >>2)If part time or a want-to-be, what is your current >>occupation? If full time, your primary occupation prior to indexing? For the last 10 years: Technical writer (writing, editing, document design) Documentation & information services consultant Before that, I was an R&D chemist for 17 years. >>3)Do you have any college training? Degree? What major? BS (Biology/Chemistry) 1 year of graduate courses in Clinical Chemistry Certificate (advanced) in Technical Communication >>4)What Dedicated Indexing Software do you use? None, Macrex, Cindex, >>Hyperindex, In>Sort, Other? So far, none. I stumble along with the indexing feature in FrameMaker or Word, then revise by hand. Ugh. I'm gonna look at Cindex/Mac ASAP. >>5)In what year did you create your 1st for-pay index? 1994---rough draft only, as part of a techwriting job; the client eventually agreed to hire a professional indexer (YAAAAY!) >>6)In what state, country or on which planet do you reside? Rochester, NY K@ __________________________________________________Kat Nagel LIFE1: Technical writing, editing and document design MasterWork Consulting Services katnagel@eznet.net Health info service mediref@mcls.rochester.lib.ny.us LIFE2: Vocal chamber music PlaynSong@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 18:16:07 +0400 Reply-To: Lee McKee Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lee McKee Subject: Re: Portable disk drives In the discussion of new hard drive vs backup system, I may have missed mention of the Iomega Zip Drives. Forgive me if this duplicates what someone else might have said. I seem to recall that the original poster had a relatively small hard drive, with a great need for backup, but also wanted to be able to store programs that were used rarely. S/he (or some other poster?) may have also foreseen a laptop in her future, and wanted to be able to transfer data between the desktop and laptop. The price of hard drives is falling precipitously, as other people have noted. At some point, you will want to upgrade to a bigger disk. Your disk will fail someday. The new programs you buy will require more space. However, it would be still good to have a backup system, anticipating failure, and you may want to upgrade your entire system before you buy new programs (ie., if you have a 486, you'll want to upgrade to a Pentium or Pentium Pro with a fast CD drive if you're thinking of moving up to Windows 95 or NT). That is, you may want to buy a whole new system before you sink money into a new hard drive. So for now, you'll probably want to consider a backup system that shares some characteristics of a hard drive. I do not own shares in Iomega, I'm just a fan. Zip drives are truly portable disk drives. Access to data is almost as fast as a hard drive, and they are much faster than any tape backup. You can conceivably run programs from them, if your operating system can deal with it. The beauty of the Zip Drive is that it comes in two flavors: parallel and SCSI. The parallel version RUNS OFF YOUR PRINTER PORT. Yes, that's right. You plug it in where your printer plugs in, and, if you want, you plug the printer cable into the zip drive. You don't need to buy another IDE or SCSI controller. Zip drives are $150-200. The 100 MB cassettes are $15-20 each. Iomega has allowed TDK and Sony to make cassettes, too, so according to my economist husband, the competition should drive the price of the cassettes down--or at least keep it from rising artificially. The drive is small and light, perfect for my laptop applications. Sure beats feeding diskettes into the machine and hitting "pkzip" repeatedly. So anyway, I think that it would be a good interim (and long-term) solution to the orginal poster's dilemma. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 17:12:12 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Sachs Subject: Re: Confession/query At 04:08 PM 8/12/96 -0400, you wrote: >If I do produce a single index for volume 2, will that be confusing to >readers when volume 1 has two indexes? Almost certainly yes. >Do I try to tell him that there should really only be a single, combined >index? Yes. This is the professional approach, and will help you establish the proper rules for future projects. >But how do I do that without looking stupid for having produced separate >indexes for the first volume? "I have discussed this matter with other professional indexers, and I have concluded that a single, combined index is more appropriate for this type of book. I agree that we should prepare separate indexes for the rest of this series to maintain consistency and avoid confusing readers, but I advise that we prepare a combined index for any other projects we do." This is a little twisty... it definitely implies a cause-and-effect that is not there, but does not state it. You need to be honest. I don't think you need to be ingenuous. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 18:10:23 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Stern Stern Subject: PLEASE REMOVE FROM LIST! Dear List Manager: Someone has subscribed stern@urshan.com to every mailing list there is (thousands) without my permission. I am getting a zillion e-Mails. Please do not add anything with urshan.com to any list, and remove it if it already there. If you can, please check your headers to find out the originating e-Mail address or Domain, so I can take appropriate action. Please forgive me if this message is a duplicate as it is impossible to keep track. Thank you very much for your prompt attention in this matter. Sydney Urshan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 22:46:17 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LiuPalmer@AOL.COM Subject: Re: No Subject We ship free demo kits to the U.S. and Canada for our Thesaurus Construction System. The Professional Edition for Windows is currently on sale for our 1989 price of $150. TCS maintains terms in hierarchical sequence and, with the press of a function key, instantly arranges the entire hierarchy in alpha sequence. The Windows version provides a "term sheet" for data entry which brings together term relationships, the scope note, and user defined notes within the term sheet as they are developed. A sophisticated UF+ also is supported. The latest edition supports importation of term lists and all reports can be output to printer or file. An unlimited number of thesauri and an unlimited number of hierarchies can be developed. The DOS Professional Edition was reviewed in Archives and Museum Informatics (v. 5, #1, Spring 1991, p. 17). The 1989 Basic Edition was reviewed in the ASI Newsletter (Nov. 1989, pp. 9-11), Archives and Museum Informatics (v. 3, #2, Spring 1989, pp. 18-19), and "Thesaurus Software Packages for Personal Computers" in Database (Dec. 1990, pp. 61-65). TCS has been used to construct several published thesauri including the ASIS Thesaurus. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 19:49:52 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Stern Stern Subject: PLEASE REMOVE FROM LIST! Dear List Manager: Someone has maliciously subscribed stern@urshan.com to every mailing list= there is (thousands) without my permission. I am getting a zillion e-Mails. P= lease do not add anything with urshan.com to any list, and remove it if is already= there. If you can, please check your headers to find out the originating e-Mail = address or Domain, so I can take appropriate action. Please forgive me if this message is a duplicate as it is impossible to k= eep track. Thank you very much for your prompt attention in this matter. Sydney Urshan _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/ SYDNEY URSHAN MUSIC _/ _/ Makers of InterScript=AA and KeyDisk TERMINATOR=AA _/ _/ _/ _/ http://www.urshan.com/sum _/ _/ alt.music.midi.keydisk-terminator _/ _/ alt.mac.copy-protect.kdt-terminator _/ _/ For help, e-Mail with HELP in the body._/ _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 22:10:09 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sydney Urshan Subject: Re: Your Howard Stern e-Mail has been received Dear List Manager: Someone has maliciously subscribed stern@urshan.com to every mailing list there is (thousands) without my permission. I am getting a zillion e-Mails. Please do not add anything with urshan.com to any list, and remove it if is already there. If you can, please check your headers to find out the originating e-Mail address or Domain, so I can take appropriate action. Please forgive me if this message is a duplicate as it is impossible to keep track. Thank you very much for your prompt attention in this matter. Sydney Urshan >>> On Mon, 12 Aug 1996 16:57:42 -0400, >>> "Indexer's Discussion Group" said: > >Helen> Is this spam, or what? Charlotte, where are you? Who, if anyone, >Helen> actually wrote to Howard? > > I already sent a message to the postmaster there about someone's > automatic mail-reply generator being out of whack. > >-- >Karl Vogel vogelke@c17.wpafb.af.mil 513-255-3688 >Control Data Systems, Inc. ASC/YCOA, Wright-Patterson AFB, OH 45433 _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/ SYDNEY URSHAN MUSIC _/ _/ Makers of InterScript(tm) (formally NCSA Telnet) _/ _/ and KeyDisk TERMINATOR(tm) _/ _/ _/ _/ http://www.urshan.com/sum _/ _/ alt.music.midi.keydisk-terminator _/ _/ alt.mac.copy-protect.kdt-terminator _/ _/ For help, e-Mail with HELP in the body._/ _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 11:48:44 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Hill Subject: ASIS Annual Meeting, Baltimore, MD ASIS 1996 Annual Meeting October 19-24, 1996 Baltimore, Maryland Global Complexity: Information, Chaos and Control The ASIS 1996 Annual Meeting will consider the complexity of the working world of information professionals as well as theoretical perspectives involving the nature and use of information. Special *Telecom Update *Information Warfare Sessions *Competitive Intelligence *Standards Feature: *Changing Owners in the Information industry *Habanero -- NCSA's collaborative work successor to Mosaic An outline of the conference program and tutorials/seminars follows. For complete, up to date information or to register, see the ASIS Home Page:http://www.asis.org under Conferences, 1996 Annual Meeting. The registration form on the Web page is a secure form for Netscape users. Schedule of Program Sessions Monday, October 21 Eli M. Noam, professor of Finance and Economics; Director, Columbia Institute for TeleInformation, Graduate School of Business, Columbia University. Author of "The Dim Electronic Future of the University" *Controlling Risk in a Complex Environment: The Design of Computer-Based Systems to Minimize Human Error in Medicine *Free Speech, Privacy & Intellectual Freedom in a Global Network *Social Impacts of Digital Libraries *Interactive Information Retrieval: Contributed Papers *Internet Resources: Contributed Papers *Creating an Effective, Visible Presence of Information Centers *Bringing Wellness Out of Chaos *Investigations of Online Catalogs: Contributed Papers *Interface Design and Navigation: Contributed Papers *Creating an Electronic Journal: First Hand Experiences *Copyright: Chaos or Control? *Theories of Information Science *Changing Owners in the Information Industry Tuesday, October 22 Ivars Peterson, mathematics and physics editor at Science News. His most recent book is _Fatal Defect: Chasing Killer Computer Bugs_. Shepherding Bits: Chaos and Control in the Information Age. *Legislative/Regulatory Update *Digital Imagery: Photographs and Art *Standards *Bibliometrics, Indexing and the WWW: Contributed Papers *The Net Within: Intranets & Organizational Communications *Icons and the Web: Communicating Classificatory Structure through Graphics *Information Management Responses to Complexity *Information Search Process: Contributed Papers *Methodological Issues in Studying Users of Networks and Digital Libraries (SIGs/IAE and ED) *Information Warfare Wednesday, October 23 *Archival Control & Access: Finding Aids Using SGML *Frameworks for Scholarly & Scientific Communication in the Age of the Internet *Visual Access to Retrieved Objects *Searching the World Wide Web: Contributed Papers *Information Science and Sustainable Global Development *Reflections on Our Future *Doctoral Forum *Information in Organizations: Contributed Papers *Navigating Complexity: Interfaces for WWW & Data Visualization *Online Visuals: Maps, Entertainment and Texts of the Internet *Competitive Intelligence (Co-sponsored by the SCIP) *Annual Review of Information Science and Technology, 1996 *Habanero *Issues Associated with Electronic Resources: Contributed Papers *What Kinds of Text Summarization Are Possible Now? *Science Educators' Use of Internet Resources *Planning Curricula for Information Professionals of the 21st Century *Browsing Online & in Stacks: How Can It Be Facilitated? Thursday, October 24 *Reengineering User Interfaces for Governmental and Public Organizational Information Systems *Indexing and Abstracting: Contributed Papers *Measures in Information Retrieval: Contributed Papers *Telecommunications Update *Out of Business? How Is the Internet Really Impacting Libraries? *Images of Dynamics and Complexity in Information Science *Usability Testing of Text-Based and Visual User Interfaces *Scholarly Communication and Information Use: Contributed Papers *Sarajevo Library Reconstruction Update Continuing Education/Professional Development Saturday, October 19 * Finding the Right Stuff: Using and Evaluating Internet Search Engines (1/2 day) * Copyright in an Electronic World * Thesauri for Indexing and Retrieval * HTML Basics: A Hands-on Workshop Sunday, October 20 * HTML: Beyond Basics. A Hands-on Workshop * Introduction to SGML * Digital Libraries: Computer Concepts & Technologies for Managing Library Collections * Preparing for the Explosion of JAVA on the World Wide Web * 7th SIG CR Classification Research Workshop * Introduction to Image Databases * Managing Web Servers: Technical, Fiscal and Personnel Issues * Using Lotus Notes for Information Management * Building the Virtual "Intranet" Knowledge Center * Interactive Web Development with ActiveX and VBScript, A Hands-on Workshop * History of Information Science: Reminiscences and Assessments Tours Saturday, October 19 (Depart at 8:00am; 8-10 hours) * Gettysburg: National Civil War Battlefield Sunday, October 20 * Annapolis & the U.S. Naval Academy (Depart at 8:00am; 6-7 hrs) * Baltimore Insomniac Tour(7:00pm - 10:00pm) Monday, October 21 National Cryptology Museum (Depart at 1:30pm; approx. 3 hours) Wednesday, October 23 Pennsylvania Dutch Country (9:00am - 5:00pm) Conference Headquarters Hotel and Travel Information Renaissance Harborplace The Renaissance is right on Baltimore's Harborplace. The hotel is attached to a glass-enclosed, 4-story atrium with more than 75 distinctive shops and restaurants and underground parking. You can take the skywalk directly to the shops and restaurants of the Harborplace Pavilions. The hotel has complimentary morning coffee and newspapers and evening hors d'oeuvres, an indoor pool and health club. Reservations must be received by September 18, 1996. Rates: Standard: $125 single; $145 double; $165 triple Harborview: $165 single; $185 double Renaissance Harborplace Hotel 202 East Pratt Street, Baltimore, MD 21202 1-800/535-1201 410/547-1200 Fax: 410/539-5780 How To Register By Mail: Submit one copy of the registration form for each registrant and provide all information requested on the form. You'll receive written confirmation of your registration within two weeks if you register before September 15, 1996. Send the completed forms to: Conference Registrar, Dept. 5189, Washington, D.C. 20061-5189. By Fax: Send your completed form to 301/495-0810. Fax registrations must include MasterCard, American Express or VISA payment. By Phone: Phone your complete information to 301/495-0900. Phone registrations must include MasterCard, AMEX or VISA payment. By E-mail: Send all registration information with credit card information to meetings@asis.org or go to the ASIS Website where secure forms are available. For more information call 301/495-0900, 9:00 am - 5:00 pm, EST. To qualify for registration discounts, your registration and payment must be received by ASIS by September 13, 1996. Late rates apply to registrations received after this date. This deadline will be strictly followed. Members of Special Libraries Association, Medical Library Association and American Association of Law Libraries may register at the ASIS member rates by including the name of the association and their membership number on the registration form. Cancellations & refund requests will be honored only if received in writing by September 13, 1996. No cancellation or refund requests will be accepted after this date. All refunds will be subject to a $25 processing fee. Refund checks will be issued six to eight weeks after the conference. Special event fees are non-refundable. For additional conference and registration information: E-mail: meetings@asis.org Phone: 301/495-0900 Fax: 301/495-0810 Mail: ASIS 8720 Georgia Avenue, Suite 501 Silver Spring, MD 20910 Relay Service number for the hearing impaired: 800/735-2258 ASIS 1996 ANNUAL MEETING REGISTRATION FORM OCTOBER 19-24, 1996 Mr. __ Ms. __ This is my first ASIS meeting. ____ Last Name: ______________________FirstName:______________________ Member#:___________ Nick Name for Badge: ________________________ Title:___________________________________________________________ Organization:____________________________________________________ Address:_________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ City:__________________________________________ State:__________ Zip plus 4:______________________ Province:_______________ Country:_________ Postal Code:__________ Phone:__________________________ Fax:_______________________ E-mail:___________________________ Special Needs:___________________________________________ (wheelchair access, etc) CONFERENCE REGISTRATION (check the appropriate items) Early rates apply for registrations received by September 13, 1996. SLA, AALL and Medical Library Assn members please indicate member number above. ASIS MEMBERS Regular Retired Student EARLY/LATE EARLY/LATE EARLY/LATE Full Conference: $300/$335 $150/$188 $105/$135 Per Day: $135/165 $78/$93 Not Available Indicate Days: Mon__ Tues __ Wed __ Thurs __ Non Members Regular Student EARLY/LATE EARLY/LATE Full Conference: $400/$435 $160/$190 Per Day: $135/$165 Not available Indicate Day(s):MON __ TUES __WEDS Thurs __ SPECIAL EVENTS PRE-CONFERENCE SEMINARS & CONTINUING EDUCATION Copyright & Intellectual Property in an E-World (Sat, 10/19) Members: Early/Late Non Members: Early/Late $195/$225 $225/$255 Finding the Right Stuff: Search Engines (Sat, 10/19) Members: Early/Late Non Members: Early/Late $150/$180 $175/$205 Thesauri for Indexing and Retrieval (Sat, 10/19) Members: Early/Late Non Members: Early/Late $195/$225 $225/$255 HTML Basics: Hands-on Workshop** (Sat, 10/19) Members: Early/Late Non Members: Early/Late $245/$275 $275/$305 Creating Digital Libraries (Sun, 10/20) Members: Early/Late Non Members: Early/Late $225/$255 $255/$285 Tech Based Information Management using Lotus Notes (Sun, 10/20) Members: Early/Late Non Members: Early/Late $195/$225 $225/$255 Introduction to SGML (Sun, 10/20) Members: Early/Late Non Members: Early/Late $195/$225 $225/$255 Introduction Image Databases (Sun, 10/20) Members: Early/Late Non Members: Early/Late $195/$225 $225/$255 Building the IntraNet Knowledge Center (Sun, 10/20) Members: Early/Late Non Members: Early/Late $225/$255 $255/$285 Intro to ActiveX & VBScript (Sun, 10/20) Members: Early/Late Non Members: Early/Late $225/$255 $255/$285 The JAVA Explosion (Sun, 10/20) Members: Early/Late Non Members: Early/Late $225/$255 $255/$285 HTML Beyond Basics: Hands-on** (Sun, 10/20) Members: Early/Late Non Members: Early/Late $245/$275 $275/$305 * Managing Web Servers* SIG/MGT (Sun, 10/20) Members: Early/Late Non Members: Early/Late $195/$225 $225/$255 *SIG/CR Classification Research Workshop* (Sun, 10/20) Members: Early/Late Non Members: Early/Late $45/$60 $60/$75 * Members of sponsoring SIG take $10.00 off ** Register for both HTML workshops and take $25 off total TOURS Gettysburg: Civil War Battlefield (Sat, 10/19) Members: Early/Late Non Members: Early/Late $50/$70 $60/$80 Annapolis (Sun, 10/20) Members: Early/Late Non Members: Early/Late $35/$55 $45/$65 Baltimore Insomniac Tour(Sun, 10/20) Members: Early/Late Non Members: Early/Late $40/$60 $50/$70 National Cryptology Museum (Mon, 10/21) Members: Early/Late Non Members: Early/Late $30/$50 $40/$60 Pennsylvania Dutch Country (Wed, 10/23) Members: Early/Late Non Members: Early/Late $50/$70 $60/$80 OTHER Annual Banquet (Wed, 10/23) Members: Early/Late Non Members: Early/Late $50/$70 $60/$80 ASIS MEMBERSHIP (1 year) $95 TOTAL FEES:________ PAYMENT INFORMATION: All registration fees must be paid in full with the registration form. Checks, Visa, MasterCard, and American Express credit cards are accepted. If you use Netscape, we recommend that you use the ASIS web site to submit your registration electronically as the form is secure for Netscape users. conferences --> 1996 Annual Meeting>. If you prefer e-mail, mail or fax, please include the following with your registration form: Credit Card: American Express ___ VISA ___ MasterCard ___ Card #: _____________________________ Expiration Date: _________ Exact name on card: _____________________________________________ Richard Hill Executive Director, American Society for Information Science 8720 Georgia Avenue, Suite 501 Silver Spring, MD 20910 FAX: (301) 495-0810 Voice: (301) 495-0900 rhill@cni.org http://www.asis.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 11:17:58 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown <104571.560@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Confession/query Fred... I agree with the faction that says keep the next two volume indexes consistent with the first. As for rationalizing why you created two indexes in the first place, why don't you give yourself a pat on the back and say you intuited that the client really wanted that approach? Congratulations on the compliment from your editor! Craig Brown The Last Word ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 12:47:49 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM Subject: off topic Sorry to break in on all the indexing discussions, but I would like some advice/information. I am a freelance indexer in San Diego, but it appears I will be moving to Sacramento shortly. Are any of you in the Sacramento area. I've never been, I know nothing about it. Can you give me any info on the area, on indexing/editing groups or contacts? Anything at all!!!! I hunger for morsels of information on this place. In advance I thank you. Leslie Leslie Leland Frank Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 12:47:40 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM Subject: off topic again Sorry, I forgot to request you email me privately. No reason the whole world wants to know about Sacramento. Thanks again. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 16:47:26 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Laura Brown Subject: Re: Indexing Skills Workshop for Technical Communicators Hello, I am interested in learning more about your one day workshop on indexing skills for technical communicators in the Bay Area. My e-mail address is Shelby100@aol.com. Thank you. Laura Brown ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 17:38:46 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Confession/query >My dilemma is this. I now realize that there was no reason for separate name >and subject indexes. Do I go ahead and produce separate indexes for the >second volume of the series to keep it consistent with the first and because >the editor liked it that way? Do I try to tell him that there should really >only be a single, combined index? But how do I do that without looking stupid >for having produced separate indexes for the first volume? If I do produce a >single index for volume 2, will that be confusing to readers when volume 1 >has two indexes? > Fred, I don't see why you should be stuck with your earlier choices if you now think they were ill-advised. I would go ahead and tell your production editor that you propose to do a combined index. You could even say something like, "I'm glad you're so pleased with the earlier index; so am I. The one thing I would do differently is combine the separate indexes into one." When a production editor says to do something "the same," that doesn't always mean . . . well, the same! Amazingly, sometimes it just means they like your formatting or the depth of coverage or whatever. It doesn't mean you can't make any changes. Your production editor may think that particular choice--combined index or several--is not important. I say, go ahead and tell 'em! I once had a production editor send me the index to the German version of a book whose English version I was about to index. Her boss said he liked the German index and wanted me to do one like it. Unfortunately, the German index was a mess, and I had to tell the prod. ed. something along the lines of, "I can't use this earlier index as a model, because X, Y, and Z." She passed the word along to the boss, and that was that. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | Life is good. Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | Milwaukee, WI | ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 19:42:09 EST5EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Alain Vaillancourt Subject: To list owner only: Problem in unsubscribing Could somebody help me? I seem to be having a problem in unsubscribing from this list. I tried the following but it did not work: Date sent: Tue, 13 Aug 96 18:30:14 ECT From: Network Mailer To: NDGMTLCD@GSLIS.Lan.McGill.CA Subject: mail delivery error Batch SMTP transaction log follows: 220 BINGVMB Columbia MAILER R2.10 ptf000 BSMTP service ready. 050 HELO BINGVMB 250 BINGVMB Hello BINGVMB 050 MAIL FROM: 250- does not correspond to RSCS origin of BINGVMB 250 SMTP. You are a charlatan. 050 RCPT TO: 250 ... recipient OK. 050 DATA 354 Start mail input. End with . 554-Mail not delivered to some or all recipients: 554 'listmast...' is too long to be a VM userid. 050 QUIT 221 BINGVMB Columbia MAILER BSMTP service done. Original message follows: X-Delivery-Notice: SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender. Received: from BINGVMB (SMTP) by BINGVMB (Mailer R2.10 ptf000) with BSMTP id 6297; Tue, 13 Aug 96 18:30:13 ECT Received: from sirocco.CC.McGill.CA by BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Tue, 13 Aug 96 18:30:13 ECT Received: from lansend.cc.mcgill.ca (lansend.CC.McGill.CA [132.206.37.4]) by sirocco.CC.McGill.CA (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA15572 for ; Tue, 13 Aug 1996 18:32:36 - 0400 X-SMTP-Posting-Origin: lansend.cc.mcgill.ca (lansend.CC.McGill.CA [132.206.37.4]) Message-Id: <199608132232.SAA15572@sirocco.CC.McGill.CA> Received: by MicroMailer 3.51 (.Lan.McGill.CA) on Tuesday, 13 August 1996, 18:30:52 EDT From: "Alain Vaillancourt" To: listmaster@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 18:28:18 EST5EDT Subject: Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.1 (R1a) unsubscribe index-l ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 22:33:03 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Confession/query In a message dated 96-08-12 16:08:50 EDT, Fred confessed: > My dilemma is this. I now realize that there was no reason for separate name > and subject indexes. Do I go ahead and produce separate indexes for the > second volume of the series to keep it consistent with the first and because > the editor liked it that way? Do I try to tell him that there should really > only be a single, combined index? But how do I do that without looking > stupid > for having produced separate indexes for the first volume? If I do produce a > single index for volume 2, will that be confusing to readers when volume 1 > has two indexes? Fred, This is written deep in the throes of producing a set of name and subject indexes myself (which was definitely *not* my idea). I'd go with a single index, especially in the absence of a compelling reason for two indexes. IMHO, if you go with two indexes, you'd have to include a headnote saying that there are two indexes. And how many people (other than indexers and other folks who are really into "indexes") look for a headnote when they go to an index? Its absence probably won't even be missed. In fact, the inclusion of it in Vol 1 may not have been even noticed by quite a few readers. As an index user, I'd personally want to have the names included in the subject index because I wouldn't have thought to look for a name index. How not to look stupid in front of the editor? I don't think you'd seem stupid at all to admit that you've reconsidered how you did the first index and that you think that everyone's interests (including the publisher's interests in terms of additional overhead) would be better served by a single index. Now, as for my own name index, fortunately it survived intact when the computer it's sitting down crashed in the monster 7-state power blackout last Saturday. (Gotta get another UPS to protect that system too.) Kudos to Macrex for crashing gracefully and a bouquet (no rotten tomatoes) to you for doing such a praiseworthy job on Vol. I. Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical & Scientific Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 00:38:18 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Janet Russell Subject: Re: Confession/query "Because the editor liked it that way" is a very good reason to do it that way again, but I would make a stab at appearing stupid first. I'd say, thank you, but I had thought it over some more and decided I preferred a single index. I'd checked with some of my colleagues and found many users found divided indexes difficult and confusing to use (if they even realized they were using a divided index and didn't think they'd found everything in the subject index.) If appropriate, I'd also point out a single index to vol. 2 would be cheaper. I recently did a seven volume encyclopedia where each volume had its own index and there was a cumulative index. I knew it was coming, but I still had to warn the editor that some things (e.g. dangling subheads) in the individual indexes would make sense in the cumulation. I also warned her that I might make changes in the cumulation. As it was, I made a major restructuring of the cumulation, so those dangling subheads look even stranger, but they will be there until until the next revision. (Some of the individual volumes had to go to press before others were ready for indexing.) >My dilemma is this. I now realize that there was no reason for separate name >and subject indexes. Do I go ahead and produce separate indexes for the >second volume of the series to keep it consistent with the first and because >the editor liked it that way? Do I try to tell him that there should really >only be a single, combined index? But how do I do that without looking stupid >for having produced separate indexes for the first volume? If I do produce a >single index for volume 2, will that be confusing to readers when volume 1 >has two indexes? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 05:09:57 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DP1301@AOL.COM Subject: In praise of Stuart Kaminsky In Kaminsky's newest "Inspecter Profiry Rostnikov Novel," _Blood and Rubles_, the character with no emotions, Emil Karpov, who's hope that Communism would rule the world but who now has to cope as a policeman in post-Communist Moscow, is looking for one Igor Kuzen. Karpov has kept notebooks detailing every unfinished case he ever worked on in hopes of finally nailing the ones who got away. He has bookshelves lined with these notebooks. "...He continued his search. There were Igor Kuzens listed in the directory, and the MVD computer system had come up with a probable Igor Kuzen, a medicine hijacker, but he was in prison. The name had touched a memory in Karpov. He had seen it somewhere, written it somewhere, and now he was methodically going through his cross-index in search of a reference. All names listed in his books of notes were cross-indexed. He couldn't find it." [Three paragraphs of further narrative here.] "Spelling," he said aloud, flipping through the index volume where each entry was clearly printed in his own precise hand. He was now going through the *Ts,* and that was where he found it. Igor Tuzen. A single reference. July 1986. Questioned in relation to the beating and death of a woman who lived in the apartment next to his. The man had identified himself as a physicist..." But read the book yourself. The picture of modern day Moscow is bleak and hopeless, but the characters are marvelous people who hope for the best. If only Karpov had his notebooks on line in someway, and had been able to use automated indexing software... Deborah Patton Baltimore, MD 410/243-4688 dp1301@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 11:44:28 +0200 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marcia Bossy Subject: Re: To list owner only: Problem in unsubscribing The same goes for me Marcia ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 08:45:58 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Cynthia D. Bertelsen" Subject: How to Unsubscribe To unsubscribe, you need to send the message to listserv@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu, not "listmaster" (and I would also write "INDEX-L" in caps instead of in lowercase, although that probably doesn't matter.) Do not put any message in the subject area. Hope this helps. BTW, you can always send a message to the listserv to get a list of commands on how to better use the features of a listserv. Just write "help" in the message body and send the message to the listserv. At 07:42 PM 8/13/96 EST5EDT, Alain Vaillancourt wrote: >Could somebody help me? > >I seem to be having a problem in unsubscribing from this list. > >I tried the following but it did not work: > >From: "Alain Vaillancourt" >To: listmaster@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu >Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 18:28:18 EST5EDT >Subject: >Priority: normal >X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.1 (R1a) > >unsubscribe index-l > > Cynthia D. Bertelsen INDEXER http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 09:12:49 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Cynthia D. Bertelsen" Subject: AMA Indexing course? A friend of mine told me about a course that the American Medical Association gave (gives?) in Baltimore on medical indexing. Apparently someone that she knows attended such a thing a few years ago. The course ran for two weeks, etc. I have not contacted AMA yet, because I want to know if this is something that was a one-shot deal or if any indexers out there know if it is an ongoing/annual happening. I will contact AMA concerning this in any event, but if anyone has done this course, I would like to hear about it before I contact AMA. Cynthia D. Bertelsen INDEXER Blacksburg, VA cbertel@nrv.net http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 10:19:09 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joni Bozzo Subject: Re: medical terminology I am very interested in indexing and am trying to break into the field. One thing I have noticed on this list is that a lot of indexing seems to be done for medical publications. Since I have no background in this field my question is this: Would it be advantageous for me to take a course in medical terminology? What about legal terminology for legal publications? Any other advice on indexing is also appreciated. Joni ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 08:32:36 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dennis Ward Subject: Re: No Subject We would be very interested in receiving a free demo kit from you. Please send it to: Dennis Ward School of Library and Information Studies 3-20 Rutherford South University of Alberta Edmonton, Alberta, Canada T6G 2J4 Thanks, Dennis At 10:46 PM 8/12/96 -0400, you wrote: >We ship free demo kits to the U.S. and Canada for our Thesaurus Construction >System. The Professional Edition for Windows is currently on sale for our >1989 price of $150. > >TCS maintains terms in hierarchical sequence and, with the press of a >function key, instantly arranges the entire hierarchy in alpha sequence. The >Windows version provides a "term sheet" for data entry which brings together >term relationships, the scope note, and user defined notes within the term >sheet as they are developed. A sophisticated UF+ also is supported. The >latest edition supports importation of term lists and all reports can be >output to printer or file. An unlimited number of thesauri and an unlimited >number of hierarchies can be developed. > >The DOS Professional Edition was reviewed in Archives and Museum Informatics >(v. 5, #1, Spring 1991, p. 17). The 1989 Basic Edition was reviewed in the >ASI Newsletter (Nov. 1989, pp. 9-11), Archives and Museum Informatics (v. 3, >#2, Spring 1989, pp. 18-19), and "Thesaurus Software Packages for Personal >Computers" in Database (Dec. 1990, pp. 61-65). TCS has been used to >construct several published thesauri including the ASIS Thesaurus. > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 10:31:29 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Cynthia L. Peterson" Subject: Re: Medical Terminology In-Reply-To: <9608121519.AA40946@medcat.library.swmed.edu> Just a word about MeSH which some of you might not realize. MeSH is developed primarily as a thesaurus for Index Medicus (print) and Medline (electronic). Although we do use it in cataloging medical and healthcare texts that is not the primary function of its development, and indeed, it makes it difficult to use in cataloging at times just because of this fact. However, that does lend standardization between the terms used in indexing and cataloging, which is helpful for searching. You can compare it with LCSH only as you can compare apples and oranges. I probably would not use it as the total basis of a book index, although I might refer to it. Another thing about MeSH is that it does not contain every possible medical condition which you might run across in a book. A term has to appear several times in the journal literature before it's even considered for inclusion in MeSH, so if you have a book with a new hot topic, or with something that has had little written about it, MeSH may not be that helpful to you. Cynthia Peterson, Assistant Manager Database Development & Control U.T. Southwestern Medical Center Library Voice:(214) 648-3906 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. FAX:(214) 648-3981 Dallas, Texas 75235-9049 peterson@medcat.library.swmed.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 12:41:26 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Melissa Moore Subject: Re: No Subject Please send a free demo kit to the following address: Melissa Moore Roberts Memorial Library Middle Georgia College Cochran, GA 31014 Thank you, Melissa At 08:32 AM 8/14/96 -0600, you wrote: > We would be very interested in receiving a free demo kit from you. >Please send it to: > Dennis Ward > School of Library and Information Studies > 3-20 Rutherford South > University of Alberta > Edmonton, Alberta, Canada T6G 2J4 > >Thanks, >Dennis > >At 10:46 PM 8/12/96 -0400, you wrote: >>We ship free demo kits to the U.S. and Canada for our Thesaurus Construction >>System. The Professional Edition for Windows is currently on sale for our >>1989 price of $150. >> >>TCS maintains terms in hierarchical sequence and, with the press of a >>function key, instantly arranges the entire hierarchy in alpha sequence. The >>Windows version provides a "term sheet" for data entry which brings together >>term relationships, the scope note, and user defined notes within the term >>sheet as they are developed. A sophisticated UF+ also is supported. The >>latest edition supports importation of term lists and all reports can be >>output to printer or file. An unlimited number of thesauri and an unlimited >>number of hierarchies can be developed. >> >>The DOS Professional Edition was reviewed in Archives and Museum Informatics >>(v. 5, #1, Spring 1991, p. 17). The 1989 Basic Edition was reviewed in the >>ASI Newsletter (Nov. 1989, pp. 9-11), Archives and Museum Informatics (v. 3, >>#2, Spring 1989, pp. 18-19), and "Thesaurus Software Packages for Personal >>Computers" in Database (Dec. 1990, pp. 61-65). TCS has been used to >>construct several published thesauri including the ASIS Thesaurus. >> >> > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 14:45:25 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Cynthia D. Bertelsen" Subject: Re: demos Please, when requesting this sort of feedback, send the message to the original sender and not to the list. And if you do send these messages, please include a subject so that we will know what the message is about and can delete it without reading it, if we are so inclined. Thanks. At 12:41 PM 8/14/96 -0400, Melissa Moore wrote: >Please send a free demo kit to the following address: > >Melissa Moore >Roberts Memorial Library >Middle Georgia College >Cochran, GA 31014 > >Thank you, > >Melissa > > > > > > > >At 08:32 AM 8/14/96 -0600, you wrote: >> We would be very interested in receiving a free demo kit from you. >>Please send it to: >> Dennis Ward >> School of Library and Information Studies >> 3-20 Rutherford South >> University of Alberta >> Edmonton, Alberta, Canada T6G 2J4 >> >>Thanks, >>Dennis >> >>At 10:46 PM 8/12/96 -0400, you wrote: >>>We ship free demo kits to the U.S. and Canada for our Thesaurus Construction >>>System. The Professional Edition for Windows is currently on sale for our >>>1989 price of $150. >>> >>>TCS maintains terms in hierarchical sequence and, with the press of a >>>function key, instantly arranges the entire hierarchy in alpha sequence. The >>>Windows version provides a "term sheet" for data entry which brings together >>>term relationships, the scope note, and user defined notes within the term >>>sheet as they are developed. A sophisticated UF+ also is supported. The >>>latest edition supports importation of term lists and all reports can be >>>output to printer or file. An unlimited number of thesauri and an unlimited >>>number of hierarchies can be developed. >>> >>>The DOS Professional Edition was reviewed in Archives and Museum Informatics >>>(v. 5, #1, Spring 1991, p. 17). The 1989 Basic Edition was reviewed in the >>>ASI Newsletter (Nov. 1989, pp. 9-11), Archives and Museum Informatics (v. 3, >>>#2, Spring 1989, pp. 18-19), and "Thesaurus Software Packages for Personal >>>Computers" in Database (Dec. 1990, pp. 61-65). TCS has been used to >>>construct several published thesauri including the ASIS Thesaurus. >>> >>> >> >> > > Cynthia D. Bertelsen INDEXER Blacksburg, VA cbertel@nrv.net http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html