Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 20:44:38 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9610B" To: Julius Ariail ================================================================= ======== Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 06:40:17 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Cynthia D. Bertelsen" Subject: Publishing/Work cycles I am just wondering if anyone can give me some ideas about what the cycles are in terms of indexing work? I am just winding down my first year of professional indexing and so I know that the work flow that I have had is probably not typical. (I have done most of my work for university presses.) Are there certain times of the year when it is safe to contemplate taking a vacation for sure? Or when you can be sure of plenty of steady work? I'd also like to know about publishing cycles other than those of university presses. Any information would be greatly appreciated. ************ Cynthia D. Bertelsen INDEXER Blacksburg, VA cbertel@nrv.net http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ================================================================= ======== Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 09:18:10 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Re: Bifocals and ergonomics In-Reply-To: <199610080029.UAA17187@polaris.net> On Mon, 7 Oct 1996 Beth wrote: > I have found that I can use a Wrist Relief Plus (by Computer Coverup) which > has a 3" wrist pad attached to a 9" deep shelf where the keyboard rests. > This allows me to pull the keyboard out slighty past the edge of the desk > shelf (with the wrist pad acting as an extension of the desk shelf supporting > my wrists) and creates room to prop up material between keyboard and monitor. > I bought this gadget at Office Depot for about $15 and have been very > pleased with it. It even leaves room for the mouse or glidepoint (I have > both). The list of ergonomic solutions on this list just goes on getting better and better. You are all such an inventive group! I can see that I'll be heading to Office Depot soon. > One comment about the glidepoint: I live in a very humid climate and find > that I can't use a touchpad when the humidity is very high. I had been wondering why I was having so much difficulty using my touchpad yesterday. The cursor simply was not gliding. And now that I've read Beth's posting, I understand: With 100% humidity, that cursor wasn't going to go *anywhere*! I think the manufacturers should tell us about these things. Those of us who live in the steaming swamps need to know! ;}} > The real key > to avoiding repetitive stress is switch from one type of movement to another > whenever you start to feel a strained muscle or joint. I also have arthritis > and have found that keeping a variety of technologies, gadgets, chairs, etc. > to switch around helps a lot. I have carpal tunnel syndrome in my left hand. My doctor had suggested noninvasive possibilities: ergonomic keyboard, lowering the height of the keyboard, wearing a brace on my left arm when I'm not working, and the like, before considering surgery. Thankfully, surgery hasn't been necessary. I've been forcing myself to mouse (or touchpad) with my right hand, so that I'm not putting as much strain on my left (I'm left-handed). I think that trying for some degree of ambidextrousness has helped a lot. BTW, Josephine ended up passing us by, for which I am very grateful. We experienced 50-mph winds, over 7 inches of rain, flooded roads, and some power outages, but that's about it. We also have enough hurricane supplies to last us for some time. At least hurricane season ends in November. Hazel > (aka Elizabeth Tudor, The Queen of her little computer Queendom) This sig line is wonderful! Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net) "Hell, we're in Pensacola!"--Gov. Lawton Chiles, Florida, who thought he was flying to Panama City ================================================================= ======== Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 09:57:41 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Richard T. Evans" Subject: Re: Publishing/Work cycles At 06:40 AM 10/8/96 -0400, you wrote: >I am just wondering if anyone can give me some ideas about what the cycles >are in terms of indexing work? I think both indexers and publishers would like to be able to predict this. I specialize in computer books and I certainly can't. Sometimes it seems that publishers rush to get things done before the end of the year and this makes for a very busy December. Other times December is dead. Sometimes it seems like the first of the year is hot and other times Jan and Feb are in the doldrums. I had no less than *three* clients call in July and alert me to a heavy load in August. *None* of it materialized. Now, it is all here in Sep-Oct. The only lesson I have learned is to do as much as I can when it's available. On that basis, I have weathered two slack periods of 4-6 weeks each this year and will still do *very* well by year end. Dick Evans ================================================================= ======== Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 10:18:20 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Re: Publishing/Work cycles In-Reply-To: <199610081402.KAA08906@polaris.net> I've been a full-time freelancer since 1985 (except for my excursion into veterinary technology ;} ), and I've never figured out what the publishing cycle is. I work for university presses and for commercial presses. As Dick says, take the work when it's there. No matter what, you should *definitely* make sure that you take a vacation. Burnout is horrible, believe me. I try to take a long vacation (one to two weeks, which is hardly long) every year. And weekend getaways are a big help, too. I hit ultra-stress about every three months, so going to the beach or staying in a bed-and-breakfast for a long weekend is an enormous help. I often can't really afford to go away (how many times have your accounts receivable not shown up when you thought they would?). But psychologically, getting away from your office and your work are absolute essentials. I remember when I took my first long vacation. There I was, calling my answering machine every other day to see if clients had called, and then calling clients back. I didn't feel particularly relaxed when I got home. I've since learned to contact my usual clients fairly far in advance and let them know when my long vacation will be. I also leave some sort of message on my voicemail so that prospective clients know I'll be getting back to them after X date. (We normally have a wonderful college kid who housesits for us when we're away. I don't know what we're going to do when she graduates from college!) When you go away, *really* take a vacation, or you'll come back as exhausted as you were when you left. Just my $.02. Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net) "I am ruled by my cats."--Norman O'Toole ================================================================= ======== Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 10:34:53 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marie-Lise Shams Subject: ergonomics <> The manufacturers probably don't even know it, especially if the company is in a somewhat dryer climate. I am learning a great deal from all your wonderful tips. Thanks Marie-Lise ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^ Marie-Lise Shams ^ ^ Information Specialist ^ ^ Consortium for International Earth ^ ^ Science Information Network (CIESIN) ^ ^ 2250 Pierce Road ^ ^ University Center Michigan 48710 ^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^ Phone: +1-517-797-2790 ^ ^ Fax: +1-517-797-2622 ^ ^ E-mail: mshams@ciesin.org ^ ^ URL: http://www.ciesin.org ^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ================================================================= ======== Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 10:56:29 -0400 Reply-To: jason.warren@ibm.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jason Warren Subject: wannabe seeeking advice NOTE: This is a long letter. I am a neophyte indexer-wannabe seeking advice. I have been - uh - lurking (what an awful word...sounds like something a teenage hacker must have invented) on index-l for a month or so, listening to all the experts and being simultaneously educated and intimidated. About two months ago my husband read me a letter to the editor in Internet Magazine from Peg Mauer, wherein we both learned that there were actually people who were professional indexers. ( A note of explanation here: I have complained all of my adult life about lousy indexes and inadequate cross-referencing.) Up to that point I thought, like 'most everyone else in the world who has thought about it at all, that an index was something that just sort of automatically happened at the publishing house when a book got written. Obviously now that there are computers, they must be doing it ALL nowadays. Peg's letter set me straight; and after I wrote her e-mail and she replied most graciously and generously I began my first steps toward learning this potentially fascinating craft. I signed up for the USDA course, which now sits on my desk, and I attended the Massachusetts ASI Conference a few weeks ago. I plan to take a one-day workshop soon. That's my background as far as getting into this. What I am seeking is an interesting career, probably part-time, which I can learn without going to graduate school, and which I can practice at home while leading the remarkably full life I already enjoy as a mother, musician and community volunteer. My questions to anyone who wants to answer me ( either to my e-mail address or to the list; I'm not sure how interesting this topic would be to the listees in general) are as follows. 1) How can I best learn indexing? Do I need to take graduate courses in information science or computer programming, or should I just buy second-hand nonfiction books and mark up the pages? People talk so much about Macrex and Cindex. Can I learn indexing just as well - and inexpensively- on index cards, or is that like digging up dinosaurs with a teaspoon to learn paleontology? 2) Is it possible to be marketable without an area of expertise? I am an intelligent generalist who has never had a "real" career. Kept waiting for something to come along and all of a sudden I am almost fifty.... 3) Can you really do this part-time? My understanding is that if you work on scholarly books for an academic press that pays a dollar a page you might have some time-luxury but that anything other than that requires you to commit eighty hours a week to impossible deadline schedules after which you might not see another job for months. Is this a wrong impression? Sorry to go on at such length, but I am considering putting in a lot of time on this, and I am trying to find out if it is really for me. Shirley Warren, shirleywa@aol.com ================================================================= ======== Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 05:45:16 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Reina Pennington Subject: Re: ergonomics In-Reply-To: <01IADRIEE2OI8XIXU8@InfoAve.Net> Hi, folks. I'm a graduate student, freelance writer, and volunteer indexer, and spend hours and hours in front of the computer every day. I can't stress enough how much utility and ergonomic relief there is in adjusting your setup so that the materials you work with are directly in front of you (below the monitor). The simplest thing is to buy one of those rolling computer desks -- mine has a monitor shelf which allows you to put the monitor at eye level, with a big slantboard below (about 11 1/2 " by 26"), and a pull-out keyboard shelf the same width. There's about a 1/4 inch lip on the slant shelf, but you can slip a slat into it to help hold thicker documents. I have a fluorescent lamp angled in so it shines on the documents without much glare on the monitor. The slant shelf is a little short for legal-height docs, unfortunately, but easily holds a three-page-wide spread of papers. I don't have an ergonomic keyboard, but I DO have a wonderful thing called a "Switchboard" from Datadesk. This is a modular keyboard that allows you to swap the modules to whatever spot you prefer. I have the numeric pad on the left (since I rarely use it), the QWERTY-spread in the *center* (so my hands are nearly always dead center), and I have a trackball module in the right slot. Thus, I don't have to use a mouse, all my hand motions are minimized, and there's even room left for my coffee beside the keyboard. I also have a comfortable padded office chair with padded arms and a lumbar cushion, and a footrest to keep my knees at the prescribed 90 degree angle. Last but not least, a space heater keeps my toes toasty when it's drafty. This whole setup is placed perpendicular to my actual desk, and the printer is on a small table on the other side of the cart. The two most critical elements are the slantboard directly in line with the monitor, and the keyboard with an integrated trackball (touchpad, etc.). These carts are only about $70 (some assembly required) and WELL worth the investment! Reina Pennington Dept. of History, University of South Carolina ================================================================= ======== Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 11:02:27 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Healy Subject: Re: database indexing (was:future librarians/indexers) In-Reply-To: <199609132225.SAA29058@fn4.freenet.tlh.fl.us> Sorry to reply to this thread so long after it was woven. Here in Florida's legislature our indexing section has just completed work on our index to 1996 Florida Statutes Supplement. I imagine we could be classified as database indexers. Our statutes are continuously revised and cumulatively republished in odd-numbered years. During even-numbered years we the revised statutes affected by that year's legislative session. Preparation of the statutes index is a 5 month project with the remainder of the year taken up with indexes of other legislative publications. Are there other legislative or legal indexers out there (other than Maryann, of course)? Susan Healy Florida Legislature Division of Statutory Revision ================================================================= ======== Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 12:24:55 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Holbert Subject: Re: Work cycles/vacations The one work cycle I know of is in publishing textbooks. Many textbooks are scheduled for the publishers' fall list. Indexing takes place over the summer. This is a good time to call textbooks publishers for new work. I take a month's "retreat" to Cape Cod from mid-December to mid-January. If someone offers me an index at that time I turn it down. I don't think there is any other way to plan a vacation. Even that does not always work, as clients who promised that the job would be over in October or November are, on occasion, still sending pages at Christmas. I have a portable computer and tiny printer that I bought second hand. (Even a retreat would not be possible for me without a computer.) When I need to finish a job, I take the job with me, making sure the client understands and hopefully appreciates the extra effort. It is important to realize that fees for projects do not just cover the time spent working on the project. If you want to make $40,000/yr, you must be grossing $40/hr. That is the only way to pay for vacations, sick time, and slack time, which are legitimate and unavoidable freelance expenses. To have work when you come back from your vacation, schedule your marketing letters and phone calls a few months in advance. I have found 2-3 months to be the time lag between marketing efforts and returns. Susan Holbert INDEXING SERVICES 24 Harris Steet Waltham, MA 02154-6105 617-893-0514 susanh@world.std.com "Training workshops and videos" ================================================================= ======== Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 15:31:12 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rob Gould Subject: Student Assistant Training STUDENT ASSISTANT TRAINING This is a quick note to update information that has been floating around on library listserv's. In 1991, I created LC Easy, a computer-based training program for library student assistants, on the Library of Congress Classification System. The program was recently upgraded from DOS only to a Windows and Macintosh version 2.0. However, old information persists on the internet. Not wishing to pollute your listserve discussions with blatent advertising, I would like only to suggest you visit my website for further information. It displays some of the lesson screens, drills, and all pertinent ordering information. I've made some additions to the original program which have thus far been very well received. Thank you. LC Easy homepage: www.lightlink.com/kish ================================================================= ======== Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 13:13:41 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Handling Page Proofs At 08:57 PM 10/6/96 -0400, ROBJRICH@AOL.COM wrote: Bob, that's a great idea, especially for books that you think you might want to keep and don't expect to receive from the publisher in a bound volume. My only concern is that I do have office-paper recycling in my neighborhood (I probably contribute 90% of the paper on collection days), and I'd have to unbind the books to recycle the pages. But I found your idea so intriguing that I think I may try it with the next book I do. =Sonsie= ================================================================= ======== Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 16:48:20 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Laura Brown Subject: request for removal Please remove me from this list. Shelby100@aol.com ================================================================= ======== Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 21:53:00 BST-1 Reply-To: jsampson@cix.compulink.co.uk Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John Sampson Subject: Re: Dvorak to QWERTY Keyboarding Trying to get info on this as suggested I got the following error message. Perhaps I should not have put DVORAK in the body as well as in the subject but my mailer won't allow nothing in the body of an e-mail. I am not expert in e-mail so I cannot make much sense of this message. -------------------------------------- Memo #15730 (2686) >From Tue Oct 8 10:22:46 1996 Received: from mail.Clark.Net (mail.clark.net [168.143.0.10]) by tom.compulink.co.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA05094 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 10:22:46 +0100 Received: from localhost (localhost) by mail.Clark.Net (8.7.3/8.6.5) with internal id FAA18256; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 05:22:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 05:22:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: Local configuration error Message-Id: <199610080922.FAA18256@mail.Clark.Net> To: postmaster@mail.Clark.Net To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="FAA18256.844766539/mail.Clark.Net" Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) Apparently-To: jsampson@cix.compulink.co.uk This is a MIME-encapsulated message --FAA18256.844766539/mail.Clark.Net The original message was received at Tue, 8 Oct 1996 05:22:19 -0400 (EDT) from root@clark.net [168.143.0.7] ----- The following addresses have delivery notifications ----- (unrecoverable error) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 554 MX list for freecom.com. points back to mail.Clark.Net 554 ... Local configuration error --FAA18256.844766539/mail.Clark.Net Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; mail.Clark.Net Received-From-MTA: dns; clark.net Arrival-Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 05:22:19 -0400 (EDT) Final-Recipient: rfc822; TRUEINFO@FREECOM.COM Action: failed Status: 5.5.0 Remote-MTA: dns; freecom.com Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 05:22:19 -0400 (EDT) --FAA18256.844766539/mail.Clark.Net Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: jsampson@cix.compulink.co.uk Received: from clark.net (root@clark.net [168.143.0.7]) by mail.Clark.Net (8.7.3/8.6.5) with ESMTP id FAA18255 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 05:22:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from clarknet.clark.net (clarknet.clark.net [168.143.0.2]) by clark.net (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id FAA08612 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 05:22:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tom.compulink.co.uk by clarknet.clark.net (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA02851; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 05:22:16 +0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by tom.compulink.co.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA04913 for TRUEINFO@FREECOM.COM; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 10:21:57 +0100 Date: Tue, 8 Oct 96 10:20 BST-1 From: jsampson@cix.compulink.co.uk (John Sampson) Subject: DVORAK To: TRUEINFO@FREECOM.COM Reply-To: jsampson@cix.compulink.co.uk Message-Id: DVORAK --FAA18256.844766539/mail.Clark.Net-- ================================================================= ======== Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 18:11:26 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Guy Allan Twombly Subject: Question Hello I am a Graduate student in Library and Information Science at the University of North Texas. One of my asignments is to write a career report. The topic that I choose is indexer. I looking for salary information for both freelance and nonfreelance indexers. Any information on reference materials covering the career indexer would be appreciated. You can send your replys to me personally. Thank you. Guy Twombly gat0002@jove.acs.unt.edu ================================================================= ======== Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 20:31:59 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Janet Russell Subject: Re: Ergonomics, ideas about > >On Mon, 7 Oct 1996, Hilary Calvert wrote: > >> Errhem! We're not *all* ASI members! Some of us wade in the primordial >> slime on the other side of the pond ... >> >> However, I'm sure we wouldn't mind being included! And Hazel replied.. ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >I can only say, by way of apology, that (1) I have not drunk sufficient >amounts of caffeine yet this morning, and that (2) a tropical storm may be >bearing down upon us. (Now, don't you all feel sorry for me? It's pouring >in absolute, nearly horizontal waves.) > >Now, if we were to write such a pamphlet, perhaps we could find some >indexing organizations that might be interested in publishing same. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The last time I saw Nancy Mulvaney she was begging for articles on indexing for the _INDEXER_, of which she is now editor. Since we are discovering that aching eyes, backs, hands, etc. are universal, except for those of us who are underemployed, the _INDEXER_ would be an appropriate venue for the article we have just decided Hazel is going to write. Janet Russell Corofin Indexing Services ================================================================= ======== Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 20:05:49 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Guy Allan Twombly Subject: Question (fwd) sorry I sent the original message to the wrong address. x ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 18:11:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Guy Allan Twombly To: INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU Subject: Question Hello I am a Graduate student in Library and Information Science at the University of North Texas. One of my asignments is to write a career report. The topic that I choose is indexer. I looking for salary information for both freelance and nonfreelance indexers. Any information on reference materials covering the career indexer would be appreciated. You can send your replys to me personally. Thank you. Guy Twombly gat0002@jove.acs.unt.edu ================================================================= ======== Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 21:14:06 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli@AOL.COM Subject: Re: wannabe seeking advice Shirley asked about getting started with indexing. I took the indexing class (10-weeks long) from the University of Chicago Publishing Program. Many people on the list have done/are doing the USDA course. After that, it was just a matter of plunging in, doing a real index. (If you have time for practice indexes, that's fine too. And practice what ever way is best for you. Using second-hand books is a good idea.) It doesn't matter what you use for the mechanics of indexing, it's the intellectual process that you need to practice. And by all means, ask questions of folks here, and by ALL means, explore the American Society of Indexers Web site, which has all sorts of information about indexing: http://www.well.com/user/asi/. Then attend workshops, the ASI conference, read Nancy Mulvany's and Hans Wellisch's indexing books for good basic information. My first two indexes I did marking the text and entering into WordPerfect, doing all the alphabetizing and formatting myself. After realizing I was going to keep doing indexing on a regular basis, I investigated several programs (getting advice from a number of people here on the list) and ended up with CINDEX. So you can start with file cards too. As for marketability, market your general expertise. So far I've indexed books on French history, eating disorders, history of black music, gays in the military, art education, mysticism, and a biography of Virginia Woolf. And that's with a B.S. in mathematics and a 25-year career in arts management. I've been indexing part-time for close to two years now and it's definitely possible. Of course, I'm only working on one project at a time. I work evenings and weekends and have not missed a deadline yet (and don't plan too). I've also turned down several jobs because I knew I couldn't fit them into my limited schedule. Finally, get that dollar-a-page figure out of your head! If anyone offers you that, run the other way. Most folks here, I would say, don't work for less than $3.00 per page, except for special circumstances. Any less than that just doesn't make it worth while, nor is it proper recompense for the intellectual effort required to produce a good index. Good luck, Shirley, and keep asking those questions. Fred Leise "Between the Lines" Indexing and Editorial Services ================================================================= ======== Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 23:34:51 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Chuck Brockman <75176.605@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Dvorak Paper - Bad Address Explained <> To Michael Brackney, John Sampson and others who tried to retrieve this document: I notified the author (Randy Cassingham) that the autoresponder was not working. He checked it and found that it, indeed, was dead. He notified his service provider today. I tried it again within the last hour. It is still down. Until it is fixed, the document is available at Mr. Cassingham's Web site. It is addressed as: WWW.FREECOM.COM Those without direct Internet access can wait for the autoresponder to reappear or email the Web site through an Agora server. (Gosh, I love that kind of talk.) Here's how: Address: agora@info.lanic.utexas.edu Subject: [blank or anything, it doesn't matter] Body: send http://www2.freecom.com/true/dvorak.html Hope that helps, Chuck Brockman ================================================================= ======== Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 05:03:20 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael & Cheryl Dietsch Subject: Re: Publishing/Work cycles Cynthia D. Bertelsen wrote: > > I am just wondering if anyone can give me some ideas about what the cycles > are in terms of indexing work? I am just winding down my first year of > professional indexing and so I know that the work flow that I have had is > probably not typical. (I have done most of my work for university presses.) > Are there certain times of the year when it is safe to contemplate taking a > vacation for sure? Or when you can be sure of plenty of steady work? I'd > also like to know about publishing cycles other than those of university > presses. > > Any information would be greatly appreciated. > > ************ > > Cynthia D. Bertelsen > INDEXER > Blacksburg, VA > cbertel@nrv.net > http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html Cynthia, I work as an in-house indexer for a computer publishing company, and our heaviest time is in late summer through early December so that we can get our books on the shelves for the Christmas rush. We have another, somewhat smaller, crunch time in the spring, partially due to books that are targeted at colleges and universities and need to be in the professors' hands for review by the end of the spring semester. The workload is probably the lightest just after Christmas for a couple of months or so. Cheryl Dietsch skyler@iquest.net ================================================================= ======== Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 13:26:00 BST-1 Reply-To: hcalvert@cix.compulink.co.uk Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hilary Calvert Subject: Re: Ergonomics, ideas about >The last time I saw Nancy Mulvaney she was begging for articles on >indexing for the _INDEXER_, of which she is now editor. In fact Janet Shuter is the editor of the Indexer, and Nancy is the Associate Editor. I was talking to Janet yesterday and happened to mention the Index-L correspondence and she suggested having something for the Indexer on this subject - without being prompted! She considers, however, that it would be more appropriate as a short feature rather than a fully-referenced article. So, Hazel, are you ready? Drusilla ================================================================= ======== Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 09:35:14 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: TAHUDOBA@AOL.COM Subject: Re: database indexing (was:future librarians/indexers) In a message dated 96-10-08 11:09:55 EDT, you write: << Sorry to reply to this thread so long after it was woven. Here in Florida's legislature our indexing section has just completed work on our index to 1996 Florida Statutes Supplement. I imagine we could be classified as database indexers. Our statutes are continuously revised and cumulatively republished in odd-numbered years. During even-numbered years we the revised statutes affected by that year's legislative session. Preparation of the statutes index is a 5 month project with the remainder of the year taken up with indexes of other legislative publications. Are there other legislative or legal indexers out there (other than Maryann, of course)? Susan Healy Florida Legislature Division of Statutory Revision >> Hi Susan-- I too am a legislative indexer in Minnesota (Maryann is one of my colleagues and the final arbitrator of many language and style issues for the statutes index). We have a similar schedule of revising and updating the statutes index after each legislative session, but our publication dates are in even-numbered years. We will soon be converting our indexing work to a new database program that is being customed-tailored for this project. More on this later when we actually start using the program. Terri Hudoba Indexers Plus Edina MN tahudoba@aol.com ================================================================= ======== Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 09:40:26 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Subject: Indexing opportunity--Indexer for United Nations pub (fwd) This was forwarded from the ASI admin office. Please reply to frankard-little@un.org --not to the list. Charlotte >From: frankard-little@un.org >Date: Tue, 08 Oct 96 14:45:17 EST >To: asi@well.com, dieyeb@un.org >Subject: Index > > > Dear Madam/Sir > > We are finalizing a book for publication on "Development Strategy > and Management of the Market Economy" containing chapters by eminent > economists be published by Oxford University Press in the United > Kingdom. The book format is 6x9 and has 650 pages. > > We would need a single combined index with names and subjects. > The deadline is short, approximately two weeks from time of delivery. > > Would you have names of professional indexers in the New York City > area? > > Also, could you give us the ongoing rates for this kind of work. > > Our address is: United Nations, DESIPA, c/o Beatrice Little, > DC2-2332, New York, NY 10017. Tel. (212) 963 1798 Fax (212) 963 4324 > and my email address: frankard-little@un.org. > > Thank you in advance for your help. > > Yours sincerely, > B. Little > > > > > ================================================================= ======== Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 10:17:55 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jean A. Thompson" Subject: Re: Ergonomics A lot of my work as a Cataloger also involves long hours at the computer. When I worked for a health insurance company they required us to learn and do (on a regular, hourly or every other hour basis) ergonomic exercises. As a result their workers' comp claims plummeted. They made sure we would continue doing them by making it a part of our performance evaluations. I can pass on a description of some of these exercises if Index-Lers are interested. (Contact me individually or post to the list which I read somewhat delayed in digest form.) BTW, the exercises I have mentioned above are meant to *prevent* injury by getting the blood flowing through and nourishing the muscles properly. I don't think they will help after one is injured except to prevent further injury. At any rate, I am now a Cataloger (Librarian) again and do most of my work at the computer. Even though I knew better, my work environment is fraught with interruptions and distractions and no one else here was doing ergonomic exercises, so eventually I began developing carpal tunnel syndrome, especially in my right hand that I also write with. (Early symptom is numbness in the thumb and first two fingers, typically at night when sleeping, not when working!) My doctor prescribed hand splints to wear only when sleeping and I prescribed elastic, fingerless gloves when working as some of my co-workers had taken to wearing. They do feel great. The kind I have are called Thera-Glove and they come in three weights (light, medium, heavy) and four sizes (XS, S, M, L). Even though I consider my hand small, I use a Medium size with the heavy (strongest) elastic. I got them at my pharmacy prescription counter for $12.99 a pair. They are washable. Once again, I think they do more to prevent injury than to heal an injury already sustained. (I, too, have no financial interest in this company.) If you are unable to locate them where you live, contact me privately and I'll give you the address and phone number in Cornwall, NY. I've suggested to my library colleagues that we all wear our elastic gloves and/or wrist splints to the annual Longevity Awards Luncheon in the spring and raise our hands high when we applaud ;-) Jean Thompson thompson@cnsvax.albany.edu ================================================================= ======== Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 08:08:01 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: Ergonomics, ideas about >The last time I saw Nancy Mulvaney she was begging for articles on indexing > for the _INDEXER_, of which she is now editor. Since we are discovering >that aching eyes, backs, hands, etc. are universal, except for those of us >who are underemployed, the _INDEXER_ would be an appropriate venue for the >article we have just decided Hazel is going to write. > Fine. As far as it goes. I suspect many _INDEXER_ readers also have fine input on ergonomics. I think it would be worth a try for someone to see if the newsletter would agree to a regular column that would include q and a's about ergonomics, plus tips. I envision that one issue's column would have a number of unanswered questions from readers, answers to previous questions, and those floating tips. I hardly think the problems or solutions lend themselves to a one-shot treatment. Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@powergrid.electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com http://www.electriciti.com:80/~prider/ ================================================================= ======== Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 09:39:13 -0700 Reply-To: "Carolyn G. Weaver" Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Carolyn G. Weaver" Subject: Program update, PNW/ASI "Indexing Software Showcase" A late (and exciting!) addition to the five indexing software demonstrations that were previously announced for the Pacific Northwest Chapter/ASI's "Indexing Software Showcase" in Portland: Frank Stearns will be demonstrating the newly released Windows version of IXGen, a dedicated indexing tool for FrameMaker that supports imbedded indexing. Note also that the meeting is now ending at 4 pm to provide time for the additional session. See you all in November! Carolyn Weaver Program Chair, PNW/ASI ---------- Forwarded message ---------- PACIFIC NORTHWEST CHAPTER AMERICAN SOCIETY OF INDEXERS Presents "An Indexing Software Showcase" Saturday, November 2, 1996 Noon - 4 pm Portland State University, Fourth Avenue Bldg. 1900 SW Fourth, Portland, Oregon Still trying to decide on the best indexing software for your purposes? Considering a move to a different product? Looking for user tips? This is your opportunity to see live demonstrations and compare the features of CINDEX and MACREX, the DOS programs most widely used by professional indexers in the U.S. and Canada, as well as to see other indexing programs that are currently available for Macintosh and Windows platforms. Louise Martin, an experienced CINDEX user, and Do Mi Stauber, a long-time MACREX advocate, will demonstrate the strengths and special features of these popular programs. There will also be opportunity for current users of these programs to ask questions and share ideas. The newly released CINDEX for the Macintosh, HyperIndex (for Macintosh), and Sky Index for Windows will all be demonstrated by Carolyn Weaver. Computer-assisted indexing has long been confined to DOS platforms. These three programs offer alternatives for Macintosh and Windows users. Location: The building we're meeting in is an office building close to the heart of downtown Portland at 1900 SW Fourth; it's a recent Portland State University acquisition near the PSU campus. The entrance, which is near the intersection of SW Hall, has large "1900" numerals above the door. Parking is available nearby in an unmarked PSU lot to the north at Fourth and Harrison, just past the Jasmine Tree restaurant on the left side of SW Fourth; this lot is not patrolled on Saturdays. There are also street parking meters and pay parking lots in the area. Directions: (1) From north of Portland: From I-5, take I-405 south across the Fremont Bridge, then take the 6th Avenue exit. Follow SW Sixth Avenue to SW Hall and turn right onto Hall for two blocks; Hall ends right in front of the building at 1900 SW Fourth. (2) From south of Portland: From I-5, take I-405 northbound, then take the 4th Avenue exit and follow SW Fourth to the 1900 block. (3) From east or west of Portland: Follow highway signs to downtown Portland. (4) From downtown Portland: Head south on SW Fifth Avenue to SW Hall and turn left onto Hall for one block. Registration (includes box lunch): $10 for ASI members; $14 for nonmembers. Prepayment required. Deadline: Tuesday, Oct. 29, 1996. Sandwich choices: Turkey or Vegetarian. Please specify below. Questions: Julie Kawabata (jkawa@teleport.com or 503-231-8029) or program chair Carolyn Weaver (cweaver@u.washington.edu or 206-543-3401) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - RSVP: Send check payable to PNW Chapter, ASI, to: Julie Kawabata, Secretary/Treasurer, PNW/ASI 927 SE Clatsop St., Portland, OR 97202 Deadline: Tuesday, October 29, 1996 Your Name____________________________________ Number Attending_____ ASI member_____ Nonmember_____ Amount Enclosed____________ Sandwich choice: Turkey_____ Vegetarian_____ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ================================================================= ======== Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 16:21:39 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: TAHUDOBA@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Ergonomics, ideas about In a message dated 96-10-09 13:49:14 EDT, you write: >The last time I saw Nancy Mulvaney she was begging for articles on indexing > for the _INDEXER_, of which she is now editor. Since we are discovering >that aching eyes, backs, hands, etc. are universal, except for those of us >who are underemployed, the _INDEXER_ would be an appropriate venue for the >article we have just decided Hazel is going to write. > Fine. As far as it goes. I suspect many _INDEXER_ readers also have fine input on ergonomics. I think it would be worth a try for someone to see if the newsletter would agree to a regular column that would include q and a's about ergonomics, plus tips. I envision that one issue's column would have a number of unanswered questions from readers, answers to previous questions, and those floating tips. I hardly think the problems or solutions lend themselves to a one-shot treatment. Pam Rider Great idea Pam--how about a similar column in _Keywords_? Terri Hudoba Indexers Plus Edina, MN tahudoba@aol.com ================================================================= ======== Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 14:42:11 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Subentry order, scholarly (help?) I'm starting a run-in index for a well-known large university press, contracted by the author, who has forwarded the press's author guidelines for indexes. These guidelines contain the following paragraph: "In general, arrange the subentries according to the *page numbers* that follow each; the first number in each list determines the position of the subentry. This amounts to a sequential arrangement. Occasionally--but not often--there is reason for alphabetical arrangement of subentries (as in the case of a series of book titles)." This is the first time I have run into this request. Would indexers who do scholarly indexing please comment--have you seen this, what do you do? I've done a fair number of scholarly works, but I've only been indexing a few years. Consulting Mulvany (pp.123-126), I find that I share her concerns (no surprise--she was my teacher). The book is not biography or history. This is a current project for a press I've not worked with before--perhaps we could correspond privately? I'll be happy to do a later summary for the list. Thank you. Best--Victoria ================================================================= ======== Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 18:14:11 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Infojo6363@AOL.COM Subject: Prospective Apprentice seeks work Dear Index-lr's, I have taken courses in Indexing, Abstracting and Thesaurus construction. In addition, I have a background in graphic arts and knowledge of the following: survey research, research methods, sociology, political science, race relations, ethnic studies, urban history, urban planning, anthropology, human geography/demography, library and information science, internet, pop culture, pop psyche, spirituality/pop theology, ecology. My interests are very eclectic and I'm a quick study. I am the librarian (half-time) for a small art museum. I will be available for sub-contracting work beginning January 1997. If anyone is anticipating the need for extra assistance beginning in that time period or after - please keep me in mind. thanks in advance j.p. ================================================================= ======== Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 11:56:13 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown <104571.560@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: wannabe seeking advice Shirley Warren writes (in part): >>How can I best learn indexing? Do I need to take graduate courses in information science or computer programming, or should I just buy second-hand nonfiction books and mark up the pages?<< I recommend a course, whether the USDA course or the University of Chicago course Fred Leise mentions, or another. You will learn subtleties you may miss studying indexes on your own. Consider alphabetization. My current text uses a scheme that is not obvious at first glance. For example: McDonald, Alt, 00 macrame, 00 St. Augustine grass, 00 Salade Nicoise, 00 If those entries are buried in a huge list, it isn't all that obvious to the casual reader that "McDonald" and "St." are entered as if spelled out. A good course will point out this alternative alphabetization scheme. Can you learn it without a course? Sure. But I believe that coursework will put you on the road to becoming an indexer much more quickly than self-study. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress. Cheers, Craig Brown The Last Word ================================================================= ======== Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 17:05:26 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: Ergonomics, ideas about >Great idea Pam--how about a similar column in _Keywords_? > > >Terri Hudoba >Indexers Plus >Edina, MN >tahudoba@aol.com > Given _Keywords_ agreement, sure! Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@powergrid.electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com http://www.electriciti.com:80/~prider/ ================================================================= ======== Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 21:35:42 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Subentry order, scholarly (help?) All the books I've done so fare for Oxford Univ. Pr., Columbia Univ. Pr. and Univ. of Chicago Pr. have all used subentries in alpha order. It seems to me that alpha order makes it much easier for the reader to scan for entries. I Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 20:44:38 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9610B" To: Julius Ariail can't imagine that being referred to as "occasionally" better. The only time I've used page order so far was in a biography and then, only for those heading where chronological/page order seemed more appropriate. Seems to me they've got it reversed. Fred Leise "Between the Lines" Indexing and Editorial Services ================================================================= ======== Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 19:46:12 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: Subentry order, scholarly (help?) Fred wrote: >All the books I've done so fare for Oxford Univ. Pr., Columbia Univ. Pr. and >Univ. of Chicago Pr. have all used subentries in alpha order. It seems to me >that alpha order makes it much easier for the reader to scan for entries. I >can't imagine that being referred to as "occasionally" better. > >The only time I've used page order so far was in a biography and then, only >for those heading where chronological/page order seemed more appropriate. > >Seems to me they've got it reversed. Thanks for writing. Well, yes, I thought so too, but wondered if there is some experience out there that would say differently. Also, I don't know if I really could do it (and this is the part I'd thought I'd wanted to stay private about), so I was wondering what to do about NOT following the guideline. However, I have now talked with the author, who also thinks it is not a good idea, but will check with his editor at Harvard to see if there is some reason for it. Also, his last book with them was done with alpha-sorted subentries, so all is well. I guess I was feeling intimidated--how could I challenge Harvard? It seems obvious now--you open your mouth and ask questions. Best--Victoria ================================================================= ======== Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 23:47:48 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Subentry order, scholarly (help?) Victoria, Now that you've mentioned the publisher as Harvard Univ. Press, I can tell you that I did an index for one of their books, under contract to the author, and I didn't get any such guidelines about numerical order, nor did I do that. They do use a run-in style, rather than an indented style, but subentries were alphabetized as we are used to seeing them. How odd that you got those guidelines. Perhaps you could do some research in a good library and see some other indexes in Harvard University Press books. That is, assuming you had a library or bookshop that had enough of their books to do so. You would see their style that way. Let us know what happens. You seem to have run into an odd situation here! Janet ================================================================= ======== Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 08:12:10 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Re: Subentry order, scholarly (help?) In-Reply-To: <199610092343.TAA25533@polaris.net> Eeeeek! I do not envy you having to index in page number order. I have not had to do this for a press, and I've been a freelancer since 1985. I *have*, however, seen such indexes. They've usually been in biographies that were published in Great Britain. Frankly, page number order for subheads drives me crazy. And I'll bet that it drives other readers crazy, as well. You can fairly easily get your indexing software, whatever it may be, to sort subheads into that order. But I don't think page number order helps your readers at all, *especially* if the work isn't biographical. Is there any possibility of talking with the people at the press and expressing your concerns? A reader will have to thoroughly *know* the subject and the order in which the author discusses the subject to use the index. That's expecting far, far too much of someone. Perhaps the author and the press haven't thought this one through. I'd try, if I were you, to do a bit of tactful "educating." If they still want the index in that order, fine. No one will be able to find anything, but the author and press will get what they want. Just my $.02. I'm eager to hear what others have to say on this one. Good luck! Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net) "I am ruled by my cats."--Norman O'Toole ================================================================= ======== Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 08:49:02 -0400 Reply-To: ghackett@bio.umass.edu Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was ghackett@MARLIN.BIO.UMASS.EDU From: Grant Hackett Subject: USDA Quickly--where can I access info. re the USDA course? ghackett@bio.umass.edu = ---- ghackett@bio.umass.edu ================================================================= ======== Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 09:04:17 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Resent-From: Charlotte Skuster Comments: Originally-From: "Elizabeth M. Moys" From: Charlotte Skuster Subject: Ergonomics, ideas about [plus] In-Reply-To: <844883330.15467.0@vms.dc.lsoft.com> >> >Fine. As far as it goes. I suspect many _INDEXER_ readers also have fine >input on ergonomics. I think it would be worth a try for someone to see if >the newsletter would agree to a regular column that would include q and a's >about ergonomics, plus tips. I envision that one issue's column would have a >number of unanswered questions from readers, answers to previous questions, >and those floating tips. > Fine, also. But why limit the proposed columnn to Ergonomics? Why not offer Janet a column reporting all the main threads in Index-L during the appropriate six months? (I am not quite sure what period that would be, but I'll ask her next time I ring.) Some items do seem to be rather (dare I say it?) parochial, but some are of very real general interest to many indexers. There are several names which I see every week on the list. How about it ladies (you know who you are, and seem to be, mostly, ladies)? This is a friendly suggestion, not a criticism of anyone! Betty ================================================================= === Elizabeth M. Moys email: betty@moys.demon.co.uk Phone & Fax: +44 (0)1959-534530 Hengist, Badgers Road, Badgers Mount, Sevenoaks, Kent, TN14 7AT, England ================================================================= === ================================================================= ======== Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 06:25:05 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kari Bero Subject: Re: USDA info For quick info on the USDA's Correspondence Program, check out their web site: http://grad.usda.gov/corres/corpro.html For info on their _Indexing_ courses, follow this path from their home page: Correspondence Program Catalog --> Editing --> Basic Indexing & Applied Indexing Or, you can contact them via phone at: (202) 720-7123 Hope this helps. -Kari -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ASI Web Committee: Kari Bero (webmaster) Lori Lathrop Coleen Mackay Lynn Moncrief (chair) Janet Perlman Charlotte Skuster (ASI board representative) Neva Smith Jan Wright (webmaster) Pilar Wyman -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ================================================================= ======== Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 09:21:28 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marie-Lise Shams Subject: Re: USDA In-Reply-To: <9610101252.AA12417@ciesin.org> The USDA Graduate School Web Homepage is at URL: http://grad.usda.gov/index.html Marie-Lise ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^ Marie-Lise Shams ^ ^ Information Specialist ^ ^ Consortium for International Earth ^ ^ Science Information Network (CIESIN) ^ ^ 2250 Pierce Road ^ ^ University Center Michigan 48710 ^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^ Phone: +1-517-797-2790 ^ ^ Fax: +1-517-797-2622 ^ ^ E-mail: mshams@ciesin.org ^ ^ URL: http://www.ciesin.org ^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Grant Hackett wrote: > Quickly--where can I access info. re the USDA course? > ghackett@bio.umass.edu > = > ---- ghackett@bio.umass.edu > ================================================================= ======== Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 09:21:50 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Re: USDA In-Reply-To: <199610101252.IAA14353@polaris.net> On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Grant Hackett wrote: > where can I access info. re the USDA course? Take a look at ASI's home page, the URL of which is http://www.well.com/user/asi You can contact the USDA Grad School Correspondence Program at correspond@grad.usda.gov Hope this helps. Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net) "I am ruled by my cats."--Norman O'Toole ================================================================= ======== Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 08:39:23 -0500 Reply-To: becohen@prairienet.org Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barbara E. Cohen" Subject: Re: Subentry order, scholarly (help?) Victoria: Yes, this is a standard order of subheadings for some publishers I work for. If you are using Cindex, you can set the sort order to accommodate this request. Barbara -- Barbara E. Cohen Indexing & Editorial Services Champaign, IL ================================================================= ======== Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 08:48:14 -0500 Reply-To: becohen@prairienet.org Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barbara E. Cohen" Subject: Re: subheading order Another thought on this topic, now that I have read through the other responses to this query: I am not offended if the publisher asked for a sort order other than alphabetical, especially as some kinds of books other than biographical may be reasonably scanned in page-number-sorted order. Many historical books, of course, lend themselves to this treatment, but sometimes alphabetical order is no more helpful, esp. when the synonyms available for writing the subheadings have equal value. Why should one prefer: Apple pie: attorneys' preference for, over Apple pie: lawyers' preference for, (imagine a long list of occupations with synonym choices, and you can see that the list has no inherent order.... a page-sorted order MIGHT be just as searchable, and may have some coherence, such as listing all professional-level occupations before all blue-collar ones in a book on eating preferences). Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that slavish devotion to any one format is always a bad idea. Evaluate the material you are indexing to find the best choice for that topic and selection of information about that topic. Trying to be open-minded about the rules... Barbara -- Barbara E. Cohen Indexing & Editorial Services Champaign, IL ================================================================= ======== Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 06:58:10 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: NOTICE, RE: column NOTICE: Pam Rider has never expressed on the list or elsewhere any interest in writing any column in any newsletter for any group in the past month. She has presented an idea for format of a possible column. In essence, whether there is or is not a column and the format of such a proprosal is for the newsletter editor to make. At 09:04 AM 10/10/96 ECT, you wrote: >>> >>Fine. As far as it goes. I suspect many _INDEXER_ readers also have fine >>input on ergonomics. I think it would be worth a try for someone to see if >>the newsletter would agree to a regular column that would include q and a's >>about ergonomics, plus tips. I envision that one issue's column would have a >>number of unanswered questions from readers, answers to previous questions, >>and those floating tips. >> >Fine, also. But why limit the proposed columnn to Ergonomics? Why not >offer Janet a column reporting all the main threads in Index-L during >the appropriate six months? (I am not quite sure what period that would >be, but I'll ask her next time I ring.) Some items do seem to be rather >(dare I say it?) parochial, but some are of very real general interest >to many indexers. > >There are several names which I see every week on the list. How about it >ladies (you know who you are, and seem to be, mostly, ladies)? > >This is a friendly suggestion, not a criticism of anyone! > >Betty >================================================================ ==== > Elizabeth M. Moys email: betty@moys.demon.co.uk > Phone & Fax: +44 (0)1959-534530 > Hengist, Badgers Road, Badgers Mount, > Sevenoaks, Kent, TN14 7AT, England >================================================================ ==== > > Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@powergrid.electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com http://www.electriciti.com:80/~prider/ ================================================================= ======== Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 09:24:25 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: perdue susan h Subject: subentry order Greetings: I have been a list lurker on Index-L for some time and have really enjoyed it. I am currently working with a documentary editing project the Papers of John Marshall having come from the Papers of James Madison. While at the Madison Papers I indexed about five volumes of the papers. Not only did I convert the project to CINDEX, but I also converted them from numerically ordered subentries to alphabetically ordered subentries. Although someone's papers could be considered biographical, one volume only covers about six months so the assumption that early pages cover the subject's birth, pages 20-30 cover the subject's early childhood, and 40-50 cover the subject's college education, doesnt'always fit. You get the idea. I think it was through habit that they indexed with subentries numerically ordered. The publisher, University of Virginia Press, didn't seem to care either way. Working with subentries alphabetically is much easier for the indexer as well as the reader, as I found. My comments come a little late in the game, but FWIW. Sue Perdue John Marshall Papers shperd@facstaff.wm.edu ================================================================= ======== Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:43:29 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "laura m. gottlieb" Subject: subentry order, scholarly 10 October 1996 The University of North Carolina Press is another press that asks for subentries in chronological, rather than alphabetical, order. They too base their preference on the arbitrariness of alphabetical synonyms. And, as Barbara Cohen said, CINDEX has the ability to sort chronologically, so it's not hard to provide what they want. I much prefer alphabetical sorts myself, but when I started indexing in 1982, chronological sorts seemed to be the standard and I did them frequently. Laura Moss Gottlieb Freelance Indexer ================================================================= ======== Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:48:08 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "laura m. gottlieb" Subject: ergonomic exercises 10 October 1996 As someone who never had a moment's pain in my wrists in all my many years of indexing *until* this discussion of ergonomics came up on this thread (so is my current discomfort in my head or in my wrists??), I would very much like to read the directions for exercises mentioned by Victoria Baker. I imagine that I'm not the only one who'd be interested in this either, so please address them to the list. And thanks in advance! Laura Moss Gottlieb Freelance Indexer ================================================================= ======== Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 11:15:32 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Subentry order, scholarly (help?) I've replied to Victoria off-list at more length, but I just want to make the following observation here: sometimes production editors send out guidelines (perhaps without even looking them over first) that are out of date. Just an old set of guidelines, some of which are no longer the press's preferences. Whenever you see something odd like that, it's always worth checking with the production editor to make sure that's what she or he really wants. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | Life is good. Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | Milwaukee, WI | ================================================================= ======== Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 11:20:54 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: sandy@PCLOGICONLINE.COM Subject: CINDEX HELP I purchased the trial CINDEX edition and tried it out on my own using the manual that accompanied it. I am looking for a short course or an individual who lives/works on Cindex in my area (Chester County, Pennsylvania) who could demonstrate it to me. TIA Sandy Sadow sandy@pclogiconline.com ================================================================= ======== Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 12:45:24 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Erg. computer desk Reina Pennington had written about her computer cart, which has a slanted work surface and a pull-out keyboard drawer; she also mentioned that it's on wheels. I'd never seen such a marvelous thing. And lo! There it was in an advertisement from Lowe's, a home-improvement store, for the excellent price of $89.95. I went out and looked at it (it's made by Souder (sp?)); looks terrific. A similar such cart, made by O'Sullivan, was available at the local Service Merchandise for $119.95 through their catalog. This isn't an endorsement of any brands or stores. Just wanted to let you know where such desks are available, if you have these stores in your area, and if you're desk hunting. I'm hoping to trade in my collapsing desk soon. Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net) "I am ruled by my cats."--Norman O'Toole ================================================================= ======== Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 13:19:01 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Karl E. Vogel" Organization: Control Data Systems Inc. Subject: Re: Bifocals and ergonomics (NOTE: this reply is LONG) >> On Tue, 8 Oct 1996 09:18:10 -0400, you said: H> I have carpal tunnel syndrome in my left hand. My doctor had suggested H> noninvasive possibilities: ergonomic keyboard, lowering the height of the H> keyboard, wearing a brace on my left arm when I'm not working, and the like, H> before considering surgery. My wrists were acting up badly, and the two things that helped the most were a. Buying a good keyboard wrist-support, and b. Taking 3 minutes a day to do a set of complete range-of-motion wrist exercises with really small dumb-bells (3 pounds or less). Holding the weights palm-up and rolling them from fingertip to palm and back really did the trick. There's a really good FAQ list on typing injuries at rtfm.mit.edu which includes nifty stuff on keyboards, etc. I'm enclosing some of the references and URLs after my signature. The full version of this list can be found at ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-group/news.answers/typing-injury -faq/general -- Karl Vogel vogelke@c17.wpafb.af.mil 513-255-3688 Control Data Systems, Inc. ASC/YCOA, Wright-Patterson AFB, OH 45433 I wrote a few children's books...not on purpose. --Steven Wright ================================================================= =========== From: Dan Wallach Newsgroups: sci.med,sci.med.occupational,comp.human-factors,comp.answers, sci.answers,news.answers Subject: Typing Injury FAQ (2/6): General Info Summary: information about where to get more information Archive-name: typing-injury-faq/general Version: $Revision: 5.23 $ $Date: 1995/10/17 07:41:35 $ URL: http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~dwallach/tifaq/general.html Prologue This FAQ may be cited as: Wallach, Dan S. (1995) "Typing Injury FAQ: General Information". http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~dwallach/tifaq/general.html World-Wide-Web users will find this available as hypertext: * http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~dwallach/tifaq/general.html * (Dan Wallach's page) http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~dwallach/ Answers To Frequently Asked Questions about Typing Injuries The Typing Injury FAQ - sources of information for people with typing injuries, repetitive stress injuries, carpal tunnel syndrome, etc. Copyright 1992-1995 Dan Wallach [Current distribution: sci.med.occupational, sci.med, comp.human-factors, {news,sci,comp}.answers, and e-mail to c+health@iubvm.ucs.indiana.edu, sorehand@vm.ucsf.edu, and cstg-L@vtvm1.cc.vt.edu] ----------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- Publications, mailing lists, newsgroups, WWW pointers, etc. (thanks to Rik Ahlberg for parts of this info) 1. Publications CTDNews is a monthly newsletter that covers cumulative trauma disorder. It's a bit pricey ($146/year) but fairly concise. They'll send you your first issue free, so you can look it over. Address CTDNews PO Box 239 Haverford, PA 10941 Phone 215-896-4902, or 800-554-4CTD to order Fax 215-896-1488 WWW http://wanda.pond.com/mall/ctdnews/rsi 2. FTP & Gopher & WWW sites world.std.com The home of the Boston RSI Archive ftp://ftp.std.com/pub/boston-rsi gopher://gopher.std.com/11/FTP/world/pub/boston-rsi Boston RSI changed its name to RSI-East, and the new archives are at sjuvm.stjohns.edu (detailed below) The RSI Network Newsletter is a bi-monthly online newsletter produced by Caroline Rose and distributed online by Craig O'Donnell ftp://ftp.std.com/pub/rsi gopher://gopher.std.com/11/FTP/world/pub/rsi ftp.csua.berkeley.edu Extensive anonymous ftp archive, including the typing injury FAQ (frequently asked questions), alternative input device information (descriptions, reviews, and GIF images), and some software. Maintained by Dan Wallach . ftp://ftp.csua.berkeley.edu/pub/typing-injury (more info below...) sjuvm.stjohns.edu A gopher site containing the Electronic Rehabilitation Resource Center. Lots of disability information, including a searchable database of national disability resources and access to other gopher sites with geographically local disability information. Also home to RSI-East, its message archive, and an archive of the RSI Network Newsletter. gopher://sjuvm.stjohns.edu/11/disabled ftp.demon.co.uk An ftp site containing the archives of RSI-UK. ftp://ftp.demon.co.uk/pub/rsi Also, Demon now mirrors the typing-injury archive: ftp://ftp.demon.co.uk/pub/mirrors/csua/typing-injury engr-www.unl.edu A World-Wide-Web page with some good pictures of how to hold your hands, MPEG videos of various exercises, and more. http://engr-www.unl.edu/ee/eeshop/rsi.html Other WWW sites: The Ergonomic Page, from Applied Software Unlimited [- NEW!] http://www.best.com:80/~ergoware/ Emacs keybindings and ergonomics [- NEW!] http://www.santafe.edu/~nelson/ergo/ Amara's RSI Page [- NEW!] http://www.amara.com/aboutme/rsi.html MouseMitt International - padded lycra wrist braces [- NEW!] http://www.mousemitt.com/ Workstation Environments - a company which designs high-end furniture [- NEW!] http://www.workenv.com/ Safety Related Internet Resources [- NEW!] http://www.sas.ab.ca/biz/christie/safelist.html Some human factors and ergonomics research by Alan Hedge http://www.tc.cornell.edu/~hedge TechTime articles on RSI Injuries http://hoohana.aloha.net/~billpeay/TECHT08.html A Patient's Guide to Carpal Tunnel Syndrome http://www.cyberport.net/mmg/cts/ctsintro.html Medical Matrix - A Guide to Internet Medical Resources http://kuhttp.cc.ukans.edu/cwis/units/medcntr/Lee/HOMEPAGE.HTML ErgoWeb - lots of information for designers of ergonomic tools http://ergoweb.mech.utah.edu/ Oversensitivity to Electricity http://www.isy.liu.se/~tegen/febost.html Disability Resources from Evan Kemp Associates http://disability.com/ Intergraph Workstation Furniture http://www.intergraph.com/furn.shtml Safe Computing's Internet Store - buy ergonomic products online http://www.netmedia.com/safe/ The Martial Arts FAQ http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/hypertext/faq/usenet/martial-arts/t op.html The Ergonomic Sciences Corp, Mountain View, CA. http://www.internex.net/multipresence/ergonomics.html The (USA's) Occupational Safety and Health Administration http://www.osha.gov Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety http://www.ccohs.ca Repetitive Stress Injury Help Page (CMU) http://http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/help/www/06-Miscellan eous/RSI/repst rTOC.html Some other WWW indices to the typing-injury archive http://www.santafe.edu/~nelson/rsi/typing-gif.html http://alumni.caltech.edu/~dank/typing-archive.html The FAQ for a2x (a program to interface an external keyboard or speech synthesizer to an X window system) and the FAQ for DragonDictate (a speech recognition system) are both available here. http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/a2x-voice/ (this should include information on the new a3x software which works with Windows NT instead of Unix and X) ftp://ftp.cl.cam.ac.uk/a2x-voice/ Another RSI page in the works http://dragon.acadiau.ca:1667/~rob/rsi/rsi.html Magnetic Devices from Total Health Mktg., Nikken Independent Distributors http://www.icw.com/~total/health.html 3. Listserv Mailing Lists Sorehand is a San Francisco-based listserv mailing list for people with RSIs. Subscribe by sending mail with any subject to: listserv@itssrv1.ucsf.edu with the message body reading: subscribe sorehand Your Name C+Health (Computers & Health) is a listserv mailing list which deals with the technologies causing injuries to folks who use them. Subscribe by sending mail with any subject to: listserv@iubvm.ucs.indiana.edu with the message body reading: subscribe c+health Your Name RSI-East is the east coast's answer to sorehand, where users discuss their experiences and offer support, referral, and treatment information to one another. Subscriptions are available to anyone with an interest in RSIs, but with the caveat that the list is intended as a regional resource for networking. Subscribe by sending mail with any subject to: listserv@sjuvm.stjohns.edu with the message body reading: subscribe rsi-east Your Name RSI-UK is Great Britain's RSI mailing list, open to anyone. Subscribe by sending mail with any subject to: listserv@tictac.demon.co.uk with the message body reading: subscribe rsi-uk Your Name Also, check out the RSI-UK Web page: [- NEW!] http://www.demon.co.uk/rsi/ 4. Usenet Newsgroups misc.health.therapy.occupational The successor to sci.med.occupational. sci.med.occupational A Usenet newsgroup which deals in occupational medicine. Lots of practitioners read it! comp.human-factors Mostly software design, but occasional discussion of accessibility issues for people with RSIs. alt.support.arthritis Support for those with arthritis. New as of 11/93. bit.listserv.ada-law Usenet feed of the ada-law listserv. Covers issues relating to the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). bit.listserv.dsshe-l Usenet feed of the disabled student services listserv. Particularly of interest to computer science students dealing with RSIs or folks pondering a return to school and/or retraining after a disabling RSI. 5. Real-time chatting If you've got an account on America On-Line, you might want to check out the RSI Support Group, which meets every Wednesday night in the Equal Access Cafe. This realtime chat starts at 9:15pm eastern time. Check the current AOL schedule for the most current information. 6. Books / Literature A large amount has been written in the popular press and the medical literature, and more comprehensive bibliographies (rsi.biblio and rsi.biblio2) are available in the typing-injury archive. Here are some books you might want to check out: o Emil Pascarelli and Deborah Quilter, Repetitive Strain Injury, a Computer User's Guide, John Wiley & Sons, ISBN 0-471-59533-0. + The Pascarelli book is often cited in various on-line conversations. If you buy only one book, this is probably the one to get. o Don Sellers, Zap! How Your Computer Can Hurt You-And What You Can Do About It, Peachpit Press, Inc., 1994. ISBN# 1-55609-021-0. Author's e-mail: dsellers@netcom.com o Stephanie Brown, Preventing Computer Injury: The Hand Book, Ergonome Press, 1993, ISBN 1-884388-01-9. o David Zemach-Bersin et al., Relaxercise, Harper Press, 1990, ISBN 0-06-250992-6 o Bonnie Prudden, Pain Erasure - The Bonnie Prudden Way. M. Evans & Co., Inc., 1980; ISBN 0-87131-328-6 (hardcover). Ballantine Books, Inc.; 1982 (softcover). o Martin Sussman et al., Total Health at the Computer. Station Hill Press, 1993. o Don Aslett, Make Your House Do The Housework, Digest Books, 1986. ISBN 0-89-879227-4. 201 pages. o Sharon Butler, Conquering Carpal Tunnel Syndrome (& other RSIs), Advanced Press (no ISBN, but phone 800-909-9795, pay $18.95 + shipping). Author's e-mail: SButler100@aol.com o A free packet of information is also available from the U.S. Government. You might want to ask for: Carpal Tunnel Syndrome Selected References (March 1989) NIOSH Publications Dissemination 4676 Columbia Parkway Cincinnati, Ohio 45226 Alternatively, you can call NIOSH's 800 number: 800-356-4674 (800-35-NIOSH) or poke around their WWW page: http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/homepage.html [- NEW!] ----------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- The ftp.csua.berkeley.edu archive Check out the ever-increasing typing injury archive! Just use anonymous ftp or WWW: * ftp://ftp.csua.berkeley.edu/pub/typing-injury * http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~dwallach/tifaq/archive.html Informative files: typing-injury-faq/ changes changes since last month's edition general information about typing injuries keyboards1 and keyboards2 products to replace your keyboard software software to watch your keyboard usage furniture details about various desks, chairs, etc. adapting-at-home some simple ways to make things like mopping and tooth brushing less painful alexander-vs-feldenkrais [- NEW!] Mike Mossey compares two healing techniques amt.advice about Adverse Mechanical Tension amt.more_info e-mail from Dr. Peter Bower about this stuff amt.references a bibliography for more AMT info ansi-standards a note about ANSI/ISO, EC, and MIL-STD "standards" armrests how to correctly use armrests arms-blurb info about the Assoc for Rep. Motion Syndromes back-exercises three simple exercises for your middle back biofeedback learning to listen to your body car-seats replace your car seat with something more comfortable caringforwrists.sit.hqx PageMaker4 document about your wrists caringforwrists.ps PostScript converted version of above... carpal.info info on Carpal Tunnel Syndrome carpal-myths a discussion of what carpal tunnel syndrome is and isn't carpal.explained very detailed information about CTS carpal-new-therapy new treatments that don't involve surgery carpal.self_care excerpt from Rosemarie Atencio's book carpal-steroid-therapy abstract of a paper discussing steroid (cortisone) treatments for CTS carpal-story one person's story of CTS diagnosis, treatment, and recovery carpal.surgery JAMA article on CTS surgery carpal-surgery-tips some general tips for recovering from the surgery carpal.tidbits TidBITS article on CTS ctdnews.info info about the CTDNews publication chord-keyboards interesting facts and references to more cumulative-disorders Cumulative Trauma Disorders: Are They Preventable? Yes, No, Maybe - a paper by Joy Linn disability.keyboards large list of keyboards, more relevant for users with motion disabilities disability-mailing-lists large list of mailing lists for a various disabilities double-crush double-crush syndrome, CTS, and more dragon-vocab-size should you buy the version with a bigger dictionary? dragon-vs-kurzweil a detailed comparison of both voice systems dragon-vs-kurzweil2 [- NEW!] an even more detailed comparison of the two systems dvorak.info lots of into about Dvorak keyboarding exercise-discussion exercise in the workplace exotic-mice info on some newer mice feldenkrais-info some background info on how the Feldenkrais method can ease stress footswitch.doc how to hack a footswitch into your computer footswitch-sources where to buy a footswitch glare-control hints about controling glare from your screen glidepoint lots of information on the GlidePoint trackpad pointing device guitar-playing RSI vs. playing guitar handeze.info info about Handeze gloves hmo-advice advice on picking a health-care provider in the USA industrial-injury one person's story of an injury injury.factors why some get injured and some don't injury.profiles statistics about what gets injured internet-safety-resources a huge list of pointers to Internet resources keyboard-commentary Dan's (increasingly ancient and outdated) opinions on the keyboard replacements keyboard-companies [- NEW!] Simpson Garfinkel's article about companies building new keyboards keyboard-trays all about picking a good tray kinesis-sun-mappings some useful xmodmap calls when using a Kinesis Sun adapter box martial-arts using martial arts to combat RSI's microsoft-vs-generic-split comparison of Microsoft Natural and Taiwanese generic split keyboards mouseless.mac keyboard shortcuts and tricks nervous-system-anatomy basic information on how the human nervous system works no-rsi-in-uk info about British judge saying RSI isn't real nonsurgical-treatment [- NEW!] Various nonsurgical treatment options for upper extremity overuse injuries office-safety Worker-oriented solutions to office safety pain-discussion All about pain piano-posture Some observations about professional pianists pointing-devices advice if pointing devices are your problem physical-therapy explanations of different types of physical therapy resellers a short list of dealers and consultants rock-climbing lots of advice about how to climb without hurting yourself rsi.article Article in The Independent (London, UK) rsi.biblio bibliography of RSI-related publications rsi.biblio2 another bibliography rsi.dentists stats on RSI happening to dentists rsi.details long detailed information about RSI rsi-fda-seminar Dr. Leo Rozmaryn of the US Food and Drug Administration's seminar on RSI's rsi.foundation an attempt to start a U.S. advocacy group rsi.intro basic article from FDA Consumer rsi-network/* archive of the RSI Network newsletter (currently, containing issues 1 through 19) rsi.physical study showing RSI isn't just psychological speed-kills it's better to type slower sword.review reviews a Mac program to reduce keystrokes tendonitis.info info on Tendonitis thoracic-info info about thoracic outlet syndrome (TOS) thoracic-info2 more info about thoracic outlet syndrome thoracic-info3 treatment info, exercises, and more (useful for many folks) uk-rsi-resources RSI resources in Great Britain vibration-gloves why anti-vibration gloves aren't necessarily helpful vitamin-b6 possible links between vitamins and RSI's voice-comparison a brief comparison of recognition systems voice-problems how to avoid hurting your voice with overuse (as you might do with a speech recognition system) voice-programming detailed information about the appropriateness of a voice dictation system to programming tasks voice-recognition-critique all about using a voice recognition system as a programmer workers-comp dealing with insurance and lawyers wrist-supports picking your supports and splints Various product literature and reviews: apple-press press release on the Apple Adjustable Keyboard apple-tidbits extensive info about Apple's Adjustable Keybd bat-info MacWeek review on the Bat comfort-factors, comfort-features, comfort-letter, and comfort-survey marketing info on the Comfort Keyboard comfort-review one user's personal opinions comfort-review2 another user's opinions datahand-review detailed opinions of the DataHand datahand-review2 follow-up to above datahand-review3 another review of the DataHand datahand-desc description of the DataHand's appearance dragon2.info info about DragonDictate 2.0 in3-press details about the IN3 Voice Commander keyboard-phone-numbers [- NEW!] Tom Bell's list of keyboard vendor phone numbers kinesis-review one user's personal opinions kinesis-review2 another user's personal opinions kinesis-summary a collection of opinions on the Kinesis kinesis-vs-maltron a comparison of two similar keyboard alternatives kurzweil-review info about the Kurzweil voice recognizer maltron-flyer and maltron-letter marketing info on various Maltron products maltron-review one user's personal opinions mskeybd-review one user's personal opinions of the Microsoft Natural Keyboard ncc-digital-dictate [- NEW!] the Digital Dictate add-on for IBM VoiceType vertical-info marketing info on the Vertical voicetype2-info marketing info on IBM VoiceType worksafe-australia.info how to get more info from Australia's govt workstation-setup how to arrange your computer/chair/desk wrist-rest-phone-numbers [- NEW!] Tom Bell's list of wrist rest vendor phone numbers Programs (in the software subdirectory): UNIX/X Software: (Note: a2x.tar and rk.tar are both from ftp://ftp.x.org/contrib/ so they may have a more current version than ftp.csua.berkeley.edu.) a2x.tar a more sophisticated X keyboard/mouse spoofing program. Supports DragonDictate. a2x-RawPC-1.4.tar a hacked version of a2x that can take input directly from PC keyboards via the serial port and an adapter. dcm.shar Dragon voice macros to accompany a2x use hsh.shar a program for one-handed usage of normal keyboards kt18.tar generates fake X keyboard events from the serial port - use a PC keyboard on anything! rest-reminder.sh yet another idle watcher rk.tar the reactive keyboard - predicts what you'll type next - saves typing serkey.sh like kt, generates fake X key events, but from a raw PC keyboard via the serial port spacebar_hacks.patches patches for X11R5 to allow the spacebar to be both a spacebar and a control key timeout.zip MS Windows break-reminder program typewatch.shar tells you when to take a break xgdvorak.sh turns your QWERTY keyboard into Dvorak xidle.shar keeps track of how long you've been typing xwrits.tar X-Windows program which pops up and tells you to take a break. watch.shar OpenWindows activity monitor / rest reminder PC/DOS Software: accpak.exe a serial port keyboard spoofer for MS Windows getup.com getup.readme simple TSR program - remind you to take breaks Pictures (in the gifs subdirectory): (Note: you can see inlined images of these keyboards in the keyboards FAQ document) howtosit.gif picture of good sitting posture (the caringforwrists document is better for this) half-qwerty.gif (new name, same file as old 1handpic.gif) keymappings for the Half-QWERTY accukey1.gif beautiful grey-scale picture accukey2.gif chord-mappings for the accukey apple.gif the Apple Adjustable Keyboard bat.gif the InfoGrip Bat comfort.gif the Health Care Comfort Keyboard datahand1.gif picture of the keyboard datahand2.gif key layout schematic E2H_Grahl.gif Grahl split-back ergonomic chair E_Grahl.gif Grahl normal-back ergonomic chair ergologic.gif the ergoLogic 7.1 keyboard (same as flexpro) ergomaster1.gif and ergomaster2.gif the Genovation ErgoMaster keyboard ergomax.gif the Maxi Switch ErgoMax keyboard flexpro.gif the Key Tronic FlexPro keyboard (same as ergologic) fountain_hills.gif the Fountain Hills keyboard generic-split.gif a generic keyboard, made in Taiwan handeze.gif hand size chart for Handeze gloves handeze.ps properly scaled Postscript of handeze.gif kinesis.gif the Kinesis Ergonomic Keyboard lexmark.gif the Lexmark Select-Ease keyboard maltron1.gif, maltron2.gif, maltron3.gif, and maltron4.gif several pictures of Maltron products marquardt.gif the Marquardt MiniErgo mskeybd.gif the Microsoft Natural Keyboard mskeybd-proto.gif ... and a prototype that didn't make it mykey.gif ErgonomiXX MyKey somers1.gif Somers EK1 Ergonomic Keyboard somers2.gif schematic picture of the keyboard tony.gif The Tony! Ergonomic Keysystem twiddler1.gif Twiddler, "front" view twiddler2.gif Twiddler, "side" view vertical.gif the Vertical keyboard wave.gif the Iocomm `Wave' keyboard Many files are compressed (have a .Z ending). If you can't uncompress a file locally, ftp.csua.berkeley.edu will do it. Just ask for the file, without the .Z extension. ----------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- References Much of the information here is derived from a wonderful guide produced in New Zealand by their Occupational Safety & Health Service, a service of their Department of Labour. Special thanks to the authors: Wigley, Turner, Blake, Darby, McInnes, and Harding. Semi-bibliographic reference: * Occupational Overuse Syndrome Treatment and Rehabilitation: A Practitioner's Guide Published by the Occupational Safety and Health Service Department of Labour Wellington, New Zealand. First Edition: June 1992 ISBN 0-477-3499-3 Price: $9.95 (New Zealand $'s, of course) ================================================================= ======== Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:37:38 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: subentry order Victoria, The University of California Press only used page-number order for subentries when I started indexing in 1972. There's an option in the sort menu of Macrex for it. It's strange, yes, but not unheard of, and it can look logical once you get used to it. Good luck! Elinor Lindheimer elinorl@mcn.org ================================================================= ======== Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 14:52:07 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown <104571.560@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Index as database I got a call today from an editor who is looking into a project in which the indexer will create the index entries by tagging them with SGML in an electronic text. The entries will then be used to create a database. If I understand correctly, the database will be used both to allow electronic access to the text and to create a freestanding printed index. The editor's question is what, if anything, can be done to resolve the usual issues of index usability. Examples are to eliminate scattering of terminology, to apply appropriate cross references, to resolve synonyms (e.g, doctors and physicians), and so on. I ventured the opinion that it is still an activity requiring individual judgment, and that each time the electronic text changes, the final editing activity would have to be done by someone with indexing skills. Since this isn't an area of expertise for me, though, I offered to post this query on Index-L. I am also providing my editor with subscription information for Index-L. Would anyone like to offer commentary? TIA, Craig Brown The Last Word ================================================================= ======== Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 12:45:42 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Nancy C. Mulvany" Subject: Submissions to The Indexer Hi Everyone, I am posting a reminder about submission procedures for The Indexer. A more thorough description of "Notes for Contributors" is printed on the inside front cover of the 1996 issues. Janet Shuter (shuter@cix.compulink.co.uk) is the Editor of The Indexer. You may send short items and queries about Regular Feature contributions to her. See the front cover of the 1996 issues for a listing of Regular Features. If you have an idea about adding a new feature department to The Indexer, write to Janet. Nancy Mulvany (nmulvany@well.com) is the Associate Editor of The Indexer. You may send queries about full length articles to her. Soon you will be receiving the October 1996 issue of The Indexer. In this issue the editors describe future theme-oriented issues of the journal. We invite you to consider contributing. Nancy Mulvany Associate Editor, The Indexer ================================================================= ======== Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 16:47:34 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Richard T. Evans" Subject: Re: Index as database At 02:52 PM 10/10/96 -0400, you wrote: >I got a call today from an editor who is looking into a project in which >the indexer will create the index entries by tagging them with SGML in an >electronic text. The entries will then be used to create a database. If I >understand correctly, the database will be used both to allow electronic >access to the text and to create a freestanding printed index. The Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 20:44:38 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9610B" To: Julius Ariail >editor's question is what, if anything, can be done to resolve the usual >issues of index usability. The issues of usability are separate from the mechanics of creating the index, but SGML presents some of the same concerns that an indexer has using any imbedded indexing tool. SGML, however, is more similar to IBM's BookMaster package than it is to PageMaker, MS-Word, or any of the common word processors. The similarity is that one has to create individual entries without being able to see the results intil running a separate compile step. The advantage of SGML (assuming it is as similar to BookMaster as I think it is) is that there is a way to create and view an index structure before actually inserting tags. In IBM, we called it "central point indexing". It may be known as something else out in the real world. I used to be a BookMaster wizard, though I'm a bit rusty now, and have done my share of indexes with it. I'd be glad to consult on any specific questions. Dick Evans ================================================================= ======== Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 23:58:07 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "FISHER,AMY ELAINE,MS" Subject: yes, more political correctness Hi everyone, This message is for all of you, but especially those who have been taking part in that rather lively discussion about political correctness over the past few weeks! I'm a second-year library science student at McGill University in Montreal, taking an indexing course as one of my electives. We have been given the task of writing a paper on some interesting aspect of indexing; I chose as my topic how political correctness can affect indexing. Since I seem to be having trouble finding print articles for my research, I thought I'd ask around for some assistance. If any of you know some good resources, I'd really appreciate hearing about them. Thanks! Amy E. Fisher sha4@musicb.mcgill.ca ================================================================= ======== Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 01:32:05 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: yes, more political correctness I recommend the cover article of the June 18, 1991 (Vol XXXVI, No. 25) of *The Village Voice* as a guide to understanding some of the dynamics and background of the discussion as it was held on this newsgroup. --Victoria ================================================================= ======== Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 09:26:42 -0500 Reply-To: becohen@prairienet.org Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barbara E. Cohen" Subject: Political correctness This week I have been wrestling with some subheadings in a book dealing with radical politics (such as the Weather Underground and the Black Panthers) written by a former New Left activitist turned neoconservative. Writing the subheadings in a neutral (non-inflammatory) mode has been interesting! For example, instead of: Brown, Elaine volatile/dangerous personality of, (this is brought out again and again in the text) I used: Brown, Elaine: personality of, likewise: Newton, Huey: drug use by, rather than "drug abuse by" In such subtle ways, the index is perhaps more neutral than the text, without actually changing the ability of the reader to find the same information. There were a thousand other examples relating to the author of the autobiography, where I wanted to say: Doe, John: marital problems of, I settled for: Doe, John: marriage to X of, marriage to Y of, marriage to Z of, even though the text does go on about his marital problems (note: the book is dedicated to his current fiance, and the editor and I agreed to avoid any entries that might be taken as an insult, even where the author is insulting in the text.) So, although some of the entries involve being politically correct, some of them are just attempts to be balanced or neutral. It's been fun! (This is where I get to feel creative, but I'm glad every project doesn't require me to examine the wording of entries so closely.) Thought for a Friday.... Barbara -- Barbara E. Cohen Indexing & Editorial Services Champaign, IL ================================================================= ======== Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 12:03:49 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Holbert Subject: Re: wannabe seeking advice/learning to index >Shirley Warren writes (in part): > >>>How can I best learn indexing? Do I need to take graduate courses >in information science or computer programming, or should I just buy >second-hand nonfiction books and mark up the pages? As a person who specializes in indexing training, I believe there is no one best way to learn indexing. I learned without any formal training. Many of the indexers I most respect learned on their own and I think that is a perfectly legitimate way to become an indexer. Not all people, however, have the confidence and ability and opportunity to start indexing on their own. The one-day workshop and video that I offer is geared toward those people who need guidance and introduction to the basic principles, both of indexing and of running a freelance business, and who can continue to learn on their own. Indexing is a profession that requires you to get by without much supervision or feedback. A lot of indexing "types" can get started by being sent in the right direction and taking it from there. I have not taken the USDA course, but it seems to me that this course fulfills a need for those who need more supervision and feedback. Many successful indexers have started with this course. For a certain type of person, it gives the confidence needed to go out and begin indexing. As far as I have seen, most graduate courses do not teach back-of-the book indexing per se. Many library school graduates have taken my course (especially to do back-of-the-book indexing after retirement). Theory is not the same as practice. I don't mean to imply that anybody can sit down and figure out indexing on their own. I train tech writers who have been indexing for years, and 90% of them have not figured out the basic concepts. They're amazed to discover that a list of subentries should not all have the same page numbers. But I do believe there are many different ways to learn depending on the personality and learning style of the person. All indexers keep on learning. This listserve is an example of that. That's one of the most satisfying things about being an indexer. I'd be interested in knowing how many of you started with no formal training. I've been indexing for 16 years, and it could be that that's the old-fashioned way. Regards, Susan Susan Holbert INDEXING SERVICES 24 Harris Steet Waltham, MA 02154-6105 617-893-0514 susanh@world.std.com "Training workshops and videos" ================================================================= ======== Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 13:03:15 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "John R. Sullivan" <104146.1652@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Ergonomics Those who have been following the ergonomics thread will find Cheryl Currid's article in the November issue of Windows magazine ("Is Your PC Out to Get You?) interesting. John R. Sullivan Concentric Data Systems Westborough MA ================================================================= ======== Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 06:40:29 +1300 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Simon Cauchi Subject: Re: subentry order I have arranged subentries in order of their first page number in indexes for biographies but not for other kinds of books. Consider the weakness of alphabetical order in the following entries, though: UN World Conferences for Women: Beijing (1995), 129 ... Copenhagen (1980), 51... Mexico City (1975), 51... Nairobi (1985), 51... [Chronological order would have been better, and would have been one acceptable way of doing first-page-number order] Canada conference on unpaid work (1993) 96 ... treatment of refugees 102 ... value of unpaid work in household 85 ... women's production in agriculture 68 ... [The first and last two subentries refer to an essay on "work", the second to an essay on "human rights"; first-page-number order would present the entries more helpfully] Drusilla Calvert in her 1995 Marysville conference paper points out the idiocy of alphabetical order in such sequences as "cello, double bass, viola, violin" and "duos, nonets, octets, quartets, quintets, septets, sextets, trios" and "Jones, Henry: adolescence ... ; birth ...; childhood ... ; death ... ; marriage ...". Clearly the sensible order for these (down in pitch from violin to double bass; in increasing-number order from duos to nonets; in chronological order from birth to death) may or may not coincide with first-page-number order. >From Simon Cauchi, 13 Riverview Terrace, Hamilton, New Zealand Phone & fax +64 7 854 9229 e-mail cauchi@wave.co.nz ================================================================= ======== Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 13:14:43 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bonny McLaughlin Subject: Publishing/Work cycles Cynthia, I work almost exclusively for university presses and find that my busiest season runs from January through June or early July. I can nearly always plan a vacation for August or early September and still manage the occasional job that might come in during that time. Things pick up for me in September/October and the workload is moderate through the end of the year. I am then swamped for the January-June period. Bonny McLaughlin mclaughb@cgs.edu ================================================================= ======== Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 18:23:00 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Publishing/Work cycles Cynthia, My experience is that, with traditional publishers, January and February are pretty dead. Then in March, things start to pick up with the workload ever increasing throughout the year until it becomes insane from September through December. From November to December, many publishers are trying to get books out of the door and onto the shelves before the end of the year. In terms of my computer software clients, the months ending the four quarters seem to be the busiest with them as they're trying to ship a product before the end of a quarter. (The months ending quarters seem to punctuate other publishers' cycles, too.) Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing ================================================================= ======== Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 20:08:31 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Janet Russell Subject: What is address for Index-L Digest? Can someone send me the instructions for subscribing to Index-L Digest? Sorry to disturb the list, but I did check the instructions sent me when I subscribed to Index-L and it's not there. Thanks. Janet Russell Corofin Indexing Services ================================================================= ======== Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 22:36:45 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: Re: learning to index Susan Holbert wrote: >I'd be interested in knowing how many of you started with no formal >training. I've been indexing for 16 years, and it could be that that's the >old-fashioned way. I took a ten-week course called "Editorial Workshop" at the University of California Extension in 1971. The teacher was the editor-in-chief at the University of California Press. The last week's class covered indexing. Then, my first job entailed working on the index with the person training me. She then hired me to help on another index. Then she referred me to a job she couldn't take--it was the demography of the Indians of California for the University of California Press. From then on, I was on my own, with only the Chicago MANUAL OF STYLE and WORDS INTO TYPE to help when I had questions. I believe strongly that some people have a "knack" for indexing, and some [most] people don't. It's an unusual skill that requires verbal dexterity, an editorial eye, and an ability to put yourself inside a reader's mind. The techniques can be learned, but the art can't. I've learned a tremendous amount during the years I've been a member of ASI, both from in-person contacts at meetings and gatherings and from reading ASI materials. The USDA course teaches both the skills of indexing and the process of running an indexing business. It's been a great help to many, I know. Elinor Lindheimer elinorl@mcn.org ================================================================= ======== Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 02:46:50 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: learning to index Susan, You're right, I think. The road to indexing isn't the same for all of us. Here's my story. My learning to index came as a part of my job as an editorial supervisor at John Wiley & Sons technical books division. Being responsible for book production meant that I had these wonderful Greenwich Village types bringing me shoeboxes of cards called indexes. They were such free spirits, all of them Anyway, a few years later, this same publisher got the idea that a technical encyclopedia should be indexed in-house, and a few of us thought we could take a stab at it. It intrigued me. We learned by the seat of our pants, and by studying what previous indexers had done in the course of their indexing. Most importantly, I guess, this fell on fertile ground, and one can assume that all of us who worked on that project had the knack for indexing. We worked this project, and we were indexers. When one of the authors who had participated in that encyclopedia recommended me to a friend of his who needed an index for a technical journal in the paper field, and subsequently another in the then-new plastics chemistry field, my career was launched. No computer, no software, no formal training. My clients thought I worked miracles. The publishers were thrilled. I loved it. After many years of part-time free-lance indexing, having started my family and moved to Arizona from NYC, I left it all to go on to other things in life, but none were as satisfying as indexing. One administrative career later, after a Master's Degree in Management and frustrated hopes for promotion, I decided to go back to the intellectual pursuits I loved, and returned to indexing. That was about 10 years ago. A steep learning curve (the computer and dedicated indexing software) followed, and the challenge of re-entering the field. It was slow at first, but that was OK, as I was still full-time employed at my administrative job. Joining ASI, the relationships and networking that brought into my life, and participation in workshops and conferences became my formal indexing education. Only then did I begin to read everything there was to read, and to really polish my skills. Having re-launched my career, it took a few more years until I had enough work to leave full-time employment to pursue indexing full-time. It's been better than wonderful, and I feel as if I've realized a dream. Did I go to school to learn? Not at all. But I continue to read, study, and learn, and have a thriving business, so I guess I learned well, in the School of Life. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ================================================================= ======== Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 07:10:04 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: Political correctness Barbara provides execellent and worthy examples of ethical neutrality, to my reading. Whether her examples fit into contemporary usage of "political correctness" is subject to question. At 09:26 AM 10/11/96 -0500, Barbara wrote: >This week I have been wrestling with some subheadings in a book >dealing with radical politics (such as the Weather Underground >and the Black Panthers) written by a former New Left activitist >turned neoconservative. Writing the subheadings in a neutral >(non-inflammatory) mode has been interesting! > >For example, instead of: > >Brown, Elaine > volatile/dangerous personality of, (this is brought out again > and again in the text) > >I used: > >Brown, Elaine: > personality of, > > Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@powergrid.electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com http://www.electriciti.com:80/~prider/ ================================================================= ======== Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 10:15:16 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Learning to index In-Reply-To: <199610120156.VAA02110@polaris.net> On Fri, 11 Oct 1996, Susan Holbert wrote: > I'd be interested in knowing how many of you started with no formal > training. I've been indexing for 16 years, and it could be that that's the > old-fashioned way. I learned indexing on the job. Right after I graduated from law school, back in 1984, I went to work for West Publishing Company, then in St. Paul, Minnesota, as an attorney/legal editor and indexer. West often started its folks out in the indexing department and then moved them to other departments. I seemed to fit in in the indexing department, and there I stayed for most of my 1 1/2 years at West. Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net) "Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change."--Internet aphorism ================================================================= ======== Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 10:19:12 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Richard T. Evans" Subject: Re: learning to index >Susan Holbert wrote: > >>I'd be interested in knowing how many of you started with no formal >>training. I've been indexing for 16 years, and it could be that that's the >>old-fashioned way. I too think one needs a knack for it. I spent my whole life in the computer industry and my realtionship with indexes dates to my earliest frustrations as a computer operator trying to find information in a 12-foot shelf of manuals. Later, I was a tech writer and got some exposure to what goes into creating an index and still later I was a human factors engineer running usability studies on indexes for telecommunications software. When I left corporate life in '92 I took several tech writing contracts and wrote computer manuals while billing myself as an indexing specialist. I offered to critique indexes for other writers and help them improve their indexes. I soon developed a reputation among my co-workers, one of whom passed my name to a local corporation that was looking for a freelance indexer. Four years later I am no longer doing tech writing. I am still freelancing for that first indexing client as well as a half dozen more. I've been freelancing full time since '94 and do about 50 titles (20,000 pages??) a year. On top of that, I'm subcontracting another dozen or so titles per year. Never had a minute of formal training. Dick Evans ================================================================= ======== Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 12:06:12 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: wannabe seeking advice/learning to index At 12:03 PM 10/11/96 -0400, Susan Holbert wrote: >I'd be interested in knowing how many of you started with no formal >training. I've been indexing for 16 years, and it could be that that's the >old-fashioned way. I've been indexing for about 20 years, and I'm also self-taught. But I do think it takes a certain type of personality and thinking-pattern to be able to do this with reasonable ease. Most people would probably benefit from some formal training, or at least a thorough reading of one of the excellent books on the subject (I like Mulvaney's the best) along with some intensive practice. I started with a rather elegant rendition ofa shoebox (one of those heavy board boxes with a fitted lid, about the size of a library catalog drawer) and a set of steel-reinforced index cards...and 10,000 lined cards. I got into computers in about 1985 or so, and in 1988 got my own. But it wasn't until I got Macrex that indexing became more intuitive and interesting and less a physical rush to completion. (I used to get a horribly uncomfortable lump on the finger that my pen pressed against when I wrote; yes, we did have ergonomic problems before computers.) =Sonsie= ================================================================= ======== Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 15:41:38 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Political correctness In a message dated 96-10-12 10:10:56 EDT, Pam wrote: > > Barbara provides execellent and worthy examples of ethical neutrality, to my > reading. > > Whether her examples fit into contemporary usage of "political correctness" > is subject to question. Not according to how I define the term "PC". And I think Barbara did a fantastic job of handling those entries. We're talking master craftsmanship here on her part--a sterling example of indexing at its very best. :-) And I don't think that my judgement is biased by the fact that I personally knew Elaine Brown and knew folks who knew her and never heard of her being characterized the way the author did. So, Barbara performed a wonderful service for folks like me who would read that book, use the index, and not have to be re-inflamed by finding the author's apparent vitriol reiterated in the index. (I know that's an awkward sentence, but I haven't had enough coffee yet to fix it.) <> Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing ================================================================= ======== Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 17:47:10 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM Subject: Re: learning to index It seems that the thread that ties us is our "knack" for indexing. I too have that knack, and I was never formally trained. I started my publishing life as a production editor for the college division of HBJ (now HB). I worked with freelance indexers and proofreaders and edited indexes. When my division got shipped to Fort Worth, I elected to stay in San Diego and freelance. Rather than be just another freelance editor, I decided to try my hand at indexing. I reread Chicago's indexing chapter and away I went. No one to call for help, no one to train me... and yet, all my clients profess to be very pleased with the results. I must admit that I think about taking a course every so often. I wonder if there are ways I might improve or ways I might expand my business with more training. Then I think about the time involved, my present work schedule, and my financial demands, and I put the training off until another day. Leslie Leslie Leland Frank Editorial Services ================================================================= ======== Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 10:18:03 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Cynthia D. Bertelsen" Subject: Question on biographical-historical type index I am indexing a book written in the first person about historically-important third parties with whom the author/narrator has worked. There are numerous observations made throughout the book, like "Later I learned that in his private talks with Gorbachev..." and "When I contacted 10 Downing Street, I was told that the prime minister was out of his office and that they did not know when they could talk to him. I suspected that Major's office was reluctant to commit their boss to a telephone conversation of some sticky issue..., etc." There are literally countless observations and asides like this about people and events. The book is not really about the narrator, but on the other hand it is, because his activities vis a vis the events and people of the times are related. The narrator is not a well-known public figure, but is well-known in diplomatic circles. A sort of "behind-the-scenes" sort of guy, so to speak, without high-ranking diplomatic status. My initial impetus is to index people, activities, and events as main headings, but mostly leaving out any of these asides in relation to the narrator, as the user probably is going to be more interested in the principals' actions and reactions in regard to events and people. But I also think that a heading for the narrator is necessary, like Narrator on British Foreign Office, 346 and interpretation of INF discussions, 10, 20-25, 150 and opinion of "new thinking", 12, 36, 75 on Yeltsin, 347, 354, 375 where the narrator's personal opinions and interpretations of events add something to the reader's information pool. The narrator's presence at an event thus would not be noted unless there was some sort of value-added, eye-witness observation (the narrator, by merit of the use of the personal "I" is naturally present at nearly all events mentioned in the book.) Likewise, should there be under Yeltsin, etc., an entry for the narrator's opinion, such as Yeltsin narrator on, 347, 354, 375 rejection of Union treaty by, 346 etc.? Any suggestions, insights, alternatives, etc. would be welcome. ************ Cynthia D. Bertelsen INDEXER Blacksburg, VA cbertel@nrv.net http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ================================================================= ======== Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 11:52:53 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MaryMort@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Question on biographical-historical type index Hi, Cynthia, It seems to me that there's a chance that your Narrator entry will be very, very long and in fact cover the whole book. I think that if a reader wants to know what the narrator thinks of the INF discussions, he/she would look first under INF (or nuclear weapons, or arms control...) My tendency would be only to include personal information under the narrator's name, such as education or career or family, and not views. Thus, Narrator marriage at Oxford as undersecretary of whatever If these things are mentioned, of course! My 2 cents... Mary -- * Mary Mortensen * marymort@aol.com * Lawrence, Kansas * USA ================================================================= ======== Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 16:10:15 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Cynthia D. Bertelsen" Subject: Re: Question on biographical-historical type index Mary, Thank you for your quick response. Yes, I know that the entry would get to be too big, but because the narrator is a former Soviet interpreter, his observations are really quite startling sometimes in view of his past and his associations. The reader will find those opinions, for example, through a look at a heading as simple as "Brezhnev, Leonid," (because he expounds on Brezhnev in a manner that would have had the narrator shot under other circumstances). I was rather hoping that there might be some other way to get this added aspect of the book into the index, but it seems that the only way** in this case is to just put in the people, activities, and events, like I said in my earlier post, and let the author speak for himself. There are a number of other people in the book for whom there are quite a few subheadings, too. Sometimes, I guess, certain aspects about a book are not (alas) to be the domain of the indexer, but rather of the book reviewer. **I am constrained by the fact that I cannot break down the main heading past one subhead; otherwise I would probably do what Hazel K. Bell did in the index to Richard Burton (by Melvyn Bragg), where she (in a 3-column mixed indented and run-in style index) has 2 pages of entries in fine print on Burton, broken up by major topics, like career, relationships, marriages, etc., that also include his viewpoint on a number of subjects. At 11:52 AM 10/13/96 -0400, MaryMort@AOL.COM wrote: >Hi, Cynthia, >It seems to me that there's a chance that your Narrator entry will be very, >very long and in fact cover the whole book. I think that if a reader wants >to know what the narrator thinks of the INF discussions, he/she would look >first under INF (or nuclear weapons, or arms control...) My tendency would >be only to include personal information under the narrator's name, such as >education or career or family, and not views. Thus, > >Narrator > marriage > at Oxford > as undersecretary of whatever > >If these things are mentioned, of course! > >My 2 cents... >Mary >-- >* Mary Mortensen * marymort@aol.com >* Lawrence, Kansas >* USA > > ************ Cynthia D. Bertelsen INDEXER Blacksburg, VA cbertel@nrv.net http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ================================================================= ======== Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 06:21:01 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DP1301@AOL.COM Subject: Re: learning to index I am one who did take the USDA course. I actually did my first index 20 years ago for a library school professor. It was a shoebox operation and I only helped on it - I was not the final arbiter for it. I only worked as a librarian for six or seven years, before I went onto other things. I seemed, however, to approach any other task with a sense of "what order is this list in?" with it's subset: "what's missing from this list?" and I suppose the further corollary: "what are the rules for displaying this list?" Most of this non-library work had been in development (fundraising) offices. I'd been away from the library field for long enough that I took the USDA course to remind me where the commas go. By that I mean, I wanted a to know what the rules were again for order, inclusivity and display - or if there are any such rules. The blessing of it, among other things, was that it came with a starter set of critical reference tools - Chicago, Mulvany, Webster - although Webster I just about never use now. A by-product of the USDA course was that my first tutor (I had two), has become a friend and colleague - she sends me her overflow from time to time. I would never have made it as a shoebox indexer. I have sufficient learning disability to regularly scramble alpha order. Thank goodness for tools such as Cindex (my choice) and Macrex! After the USDA course, joining ASI was also important - to read and hear how other indexers solve those hard parts that crop up. There are many solutions, just as this is another perspective for getting on board with indexing. Deborah Deborah Patton Baltimore, MD 410/243-4688 dp1301@aol.com ================================================================= ======== Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 08:50:48 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: WMacallen@AOL.COM Subject: Re: AMWA Conference in Chicago Has or does anyone on this listserve go to the American Medical Writers' Conference (it's in Chicago next month?) If so, can you let me know by email whether you think it is a good investment in terms of time and money? I have feedback from Ann Blum (Hello Ann), but wondered if anyone else has thoughts about the Conference. I'd like to attend, but it's happening the same week that I lead a hiking weekend for the Appalachian Mountain Club in New Hampshire so am trying to determine whether it's a good investment of money and energy just before I lead a weekend. Thanks for any info in advance. Willa MacAllen WMacallen@aol.com ================================================================= ======== Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 13:51:45 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: GLASSMANDL@AOL.COM Subject: Author indexes are free I'm out there trying to drum up that first indexing job and received this (not uncommon and very discouraging) reply today: "We nearly always talk the authors into doing their own indexing on the theory that (a) they know more about the subject matter than anyone else and (b) it's free." It's easy for the publishers to convince themselves that (a) is true, if they have (b) as an inducement. Am I just contacting the wrong publishers? Does anyone have a feel for back-of-the-book index percentages: Author written vs in-house vs freelance created? I just had to send off this cathartic post before diving back into my list of "cold-calls". Don Glassman ================================================================= ======== Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 14:27:50 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: David G Anderson Subject: Question on biographical-historical type index Cynthia D. Bertelson raises the important question of the place of a first person narrator or actor in the index of a biographical or historical work. Her sample entry is: >Narrator > on British Foreign Office, 346 > and interpretation of INF discussions, 10, 20-25, 150 > and opinion of "new thinking", 12, 36, 75 > on Yeltsin, 347, 354, 375 My first observation is that all inoperative words should be suppressed, viz., the leading "and" in the second and third entries. I would also take it as given that the proper name of the narrator would be employed. Nowhere in the literature of the English-speaking peoples is the relation of the narrator to his subject better presented than in Boswell's _Life of Johnson_. The 1807 edition allows "Boswell (the authour of this work)" but sixteen entry lines indexing all four volumes, the first of which are: introduced to Johnson, i.371, 374, 375 his "Account of Corsica," ii.48, 58, 59, 69 elected of the Literary Club, ii.245 his "Letter to the People of Scotland," iv.186 The 1904 Oxford edition distinguishes Boswell's "chief events and works" from his "letters to" and "letters from" Dr. Johnson. Here is the first of the 1904 index: 1760, first visit to London, i.256-7 1762, second visit to London, i.256-7 1763, gets to know Johnson, i.261; goes to study at Utrecht, i.315 1765, visits Corsica, i.334 Here the order of entries is strictly chronological, befitting the nature of the work itself. However However, the evolving index in Boswell's case is a reflection of the reading public's evolving level of interest in Boswell himself. While he is still alive and is in the subordinate role of the recorder and narrator, it is prpoer to enter only those cases where he intrudes in the text of the work in a manner that places him as an actor in the events he describes. Miss Bertelson's example is indeed indexable: >"When I contacted 10 Downing Street, I was told that the >prime minister was out of his office and that they did not >know when they could talk to him. I suspected that Major's >office was reluctant to commit their boss to a telephone >conversation of some sticky issue..., etc." for here the author was an actor in the events. I would give him all that is due to the living Boswell but would reserve the richer indexing for some time in the future when, and if, the narrator himself becomes an object of the general reader's interest. __________________________________ David G Anderson Williamstown, Ontario, Canada __________________________________ ================================================================= ======== Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 14:41:00 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Author indexes are free In a message dated 96-10-14 14:00:02 EDT, Don wrote: > > I'm out there trying to drum up that first indexing job and received this > (not uncommon and very discouraging) reply today: > > "We nearly always talk the authors into doing their own indexing on the > theory that (a) they know more about the subject matter than anyone else > and (b) it's free." > > It's easy for the publishers to convince themselves that (a) is true, if > they > have (b) as an inducement. Hi Don, ASI had a wonderful pamphlet a few years ago that pointed out to publishers the advantages of having a professional indexer vs. authors doing their indexing. Last I heard (about a year ago), the pamphlet was being rewritten, but you may want to check into that. Of course, having said that, it doesn't help you right now and you may not have enough energy to educate publishers when you're going through the angst of cold-calling. (However, you'll find some good "come-backs" in the pamphlet for whenever you hear that in the future.) > > Am I just contacting the wrong publishers? Hang in there and keep trying! There *are* publishers who use freelance indexers. It's just a matter of playing the Law of Averages until you hit on those who do. (Then, you have to keep playing the Law until you find some who will hire *you*. ;-D) Also, don't interpret the term "publisher" too narrowly. If your tastes in indexing run toward the technical side, there are computer software and other companies who produce product manuals requiring indexes. In fact, you can even broaden your scope to other types of companies, for you won't believe how many companies create huge amounts of documentation, if only for inhouse use, requiring indexes. My very first potential indexing job was to be with the mortgage department of a bank that had a large amount of documentation needing indexing for their loan counselors. Unfortunately, the bank reorganized and the project went up in smoke. But you get the idea. I'm just brainstorming here... but if your background is in chemistry, for example, you may want to consider contacting chemical manufacturers or pharmaceutical companies. If it's electrical/electronic engineering, perhaps you can get jobs from manufacturers in that field. I indexed 27 manuals for a telecommunications equipment company on a mega-system they sell. So, you see that this is a potentially fertile avenue to explore. Another inducement toward exploring these types of "publishers" is that they tend to pay more than traditional book publishers. Other nontraditional publishers include technical documentation firms (which is how I worked on the 27-manual project under the auspices of another indexer who had them as a client) including freelance technical writers, engineering societies (who don't necessarily pay more than traditional publishers), etc. Have I gotten the juices flowing? ;-D Of course, you may run into "our writers do our indexes" there as well, but at least this can stack the Law of Averages in your favor more. The reference section of your local library is chock full of directories of large companies organized according to their type of business (SIC codes) so you can target companies in fields that interest you. However, they tend to list only the names of their corporate officers, not who's in charge of their documentation. But it's a start! (They do give phone numbers and addresses.) Good luck!!! Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing > Does anyone have a feel for back-of-the-book index percentages: Author > written vs in-house vs freelance created? > > I just had to send off this cathartic post before diving back into my list > of > "cold-calls". > ================================================================= ======== Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 14:52:43 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Cynthia D. Bertelsen" Subject: Re: Author indexes are free Certainly with university presses (which I am most familiar with), you will find a large number of author-generated indexes. In fact, one editor recently told me that one of his authors took the books' text files on disk, put in the page numbers to correspond to the final proofs, and then generated his own index in WORD 6.0 with WORD's indexing feature; the editor said that that posed a threat to freelancers, which it does. I took a moment to write back to the editor and pointed out that in my opinion an author creates often creates indexes that lack the structure and access points that a professional can insert. I pointed out also that an indexer's ability to use cross-references adds a great deal to an index. In most author-generated indexes that I have seen, there are very few cross-references. =20 My humble opinion is that we indexers as a group must try to make the value of our product clearer to the authors (and in some cases, to the editors). How we do that, well, I am not quite sure. Maybe some newspaper articles in local papers where there are lots of university professors who are= publishing? In terms of getting work, you just have to keep plugging away and send out tons of resum=E9s every few months. I often send to the same publishers= over and over, because I really want to work for them. In some cases, I have gotten work from those to whom I have sent my materials more than once. Sometimes cold calls work, as there may be something that has come up (the author gets sick, his mother gets sick, he decides he needs an index at the last minute, etc.). Good luck. At 01:51 PM 10/14/96 -0400, GLASSMANDL@AOL.COM wrote: >I'm out there trying to drum up that first indexing job and received this >(not uncommon and very discouraging) reply today: > >"We nearly always talk the authors into doing their own indexing on the >theory that (a) they know more about the subject matter than anyone else >and (b) it's free." > >It's easy for the publishers to convince themselves that (a) is true, if= they >have (b) as an inducement. > >Am I just contacting the wrong publishers? >Does anyone have a feel for back-of-the-book index percentages: Author >written vs in-house vs freelance created? > >I just had to send off this cathartic post before diving back into my list= of >"cold-calls". > >Don Glassman > > ************ Cynthia D. Bertelsen INDEXER Blacksburg, VA cbertel@nrv.net http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ================================================================= ======== Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 14:55:41 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Daveream@AOL.COM Subject: Writer's Market CD There's was mention in the local paper today that the 1997 edition of the Writer's Market publication will be available in book, CD, or combined offerings. I think it was $40 for the CD and $50 for both. FYI, Dave "Talking about music is like dancing about architecture." ================================================================= ======== Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 16:47:56 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Author indexes are free Don, You're doing fine. That's par for the course. And no, you're not contacting the wrong publishers. Follow Lynn's advice. You've hit the "no's", which means you're primed, by the law of averages, to hit a "yes" soon. I have to tell you -- I used to be put off by that answer, and now I don't give in to it that easily. Guess I'm getting feisty! Recently, I was referred to a publisher who would have been a new client. An author whose book I had indexed referred me to a friend, who works in the same field, and whose publisher didn't know an indexer who worked in the field. I got excited at the prospect of a new client. I talked to the publisher, sent the editor my resume, etc, and waited. I called back about 10 days later, because I hadn't heard, and was told that she convinced the author to do the index himself. My answer to her was "I'm sorry to hear that." There was dead silence, as she was obviously taken aback, and then she asked why I said that. .... Lead in to my spiel. I told her that an expert, trained as an indexer, would do a much better job than the author, that indexing required a lot of skill, and that the author would flounder and turn in "something", but it would have little resemblance to what a professional indexer would do, and that the publishing house would have to stand behind that index.... wouldn't it be better to have an index professionally done than crudely done by an author who didn't know how and would rather be doing something else....after all, this is the era of information retrieval, and the index is an important tool. etc. etc. Of course, she had no answer, and I said again that I thought it would be better for all concerned to stick to professional indexers, and to call on me if and when they need me. Haven't heard back yet, but who knows? This is also my approach when a publisher tells me that they have the computer turn out an index, which undoubtedly is even worse than one prepared by an untutored author, and, Don, you will also hear this as a reason not to use freelance indexers. I gasp when I hear that, and tell the "client" (non-client!) that nothing takes the place of the human mind in doing the intellectual analysis needed to create a good index. Well, now I've given away my secrets! Hope this helps, Don, and all you new indexers out there. Keep plugging. Many publishers *do* hire freelancers, and many of us make a living at it, so it can work for you. There are a lot of publishers out there! Keep trying. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ================================================================= ======== Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 17:11:55 -0500 Reply-To: becohen@prairienet.org Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barbara E. Cohen" Subject: Re: Political Correctness The reason I posted my example under the PC discussion is because the book is all about political players and the author's opinion of same (few of which opinions belonged in the index, in my opinion). Cynthia's book sounds very similar to mine--lots of little asides and comments without always saying who or what was really going on. Cynthia: if you want to talk about how I solved some of my problems with the book I just finished, feel free to call and we can talk! I too had trouble balancing the personal and political/historical elements of the books I just indexed. Barbara -- Barbara E. Cohen Indexing & Editorial Services Champaign, IL ================================================================= ======== Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 23:27:44 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Helen Schinske Subject: pricing In all the discussion of price-per-page, per-entry, etc. that went on a while back, it occurred to me to wonder: since there is no standard of how many words go on a page, what about pricing per hundred or thousand words? It seems to me that a word count should not be hard to come up with. At the least one could get an estimate by counting the words in one chapter and comparing that to the number of pages. I also considered that one might charge by the size of the file, but Jan Wright pointed out to me that different word processors create different-sized files, let alone what happens when you get a document into Pagemaker or Framemaker. Sorry if this has come up before -- I may have spaced it. Helen Schinske HSchinske@aol.com