From: SMTP%"LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu" 11-MAY-1996 20:09:19.35 To: CIRJA02 CC: Subj: File: "INDEX-L LOG9604E" Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 19:47:40 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9604E" To: CIRJA02@GSVMS1.CC.GASOU.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 08:55:59 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: Re: USDA Indexing Courses ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Sandie wrote: > I'm thinking seriously of taking both courses with USDA. Have others taken > these courses and did you find them valuable? I would love to hear comments > and/or criticisms on the courses, and how long they took to complete. Thanks > much. Yesterday I received the Basic Indexing course in the mail; it looks great. The course description suggests you plan on doing one lesson per month (there are 10 lessons and a final exam). I'm hoping to get two things (at least) from the indexing courses: credentials and confidence. Although I've been a professional technical writer for over 10 years, and have been working with/for an experienced member of this mailing list for the last year (Hello, Dick), I still feel uncertain about some of my indexing methods and my organizational style. I'm hoping that some education and practice without a customer deadline will help. I'm also planning to take the second course. Can anyone comment on just how valuable this course is as a professional credential? I know it will improve my indexing skills, but is a USDA course, or certificate, anything that a non-government client would recognize or be favorably impressed with? Thanks, Ann Norcross P.S. I apologize if you've seen this message before; major mail-server problems! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 08:56:10 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: HyperIndex for the Macintosh ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >Is there some way of seeing a >list of all the entries in page number sort? What have I missed? In cards 3-13, there's a button at the top of the window that lets you sort the entries by page number. (And then you can sort them alphabetically again when you want to.) Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | Life is good. Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | Milwaukee, WI | ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 08:56:20 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Simon Cauchi Subject: Re: Biography ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Joanne Clendenen asks: >----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >Question: Should I cite the works of the biography's subject when mentioned >and quoted in the index? > >Question: Also, for those of you who do this kind of book, what's your >philosophy on how much to put under the subject's name? I always have to >debate this with myself. I automatically put material in that is about the >subject (e.g. illnesses, marriage, appointment to university position, etc), >but what about his views on the main subjects of his life's work, which form >the major themes of the book? Most of the book is about his views on society, >authority, political power and freedom. Of course all of these items are >listed separately. What would you look for under his name? > > IMHO, the answer to the first question is "Yes, do index his works". I would suggest indexing them by title as main entries, not as subentries under the man's name. Similarly, on the second question, I'd also recommend creating subject entries for the main themes of the man's works, e.g. 'society, XYZ's views on'. All you need under his name is a cross-reference or perhaps a number of cross-references to the relevant subject entries. On the general question of long and complex entries for the subject of a biography, I'd bear in mind Hilda D. Spear's comments: "... having struggled in the past months with the eleven columns of indexing, mostly in close-packed, run-on-style under 'Forster, Edwin Morgan' in P. N. Furbank's biography of the novelist, I am sure that G. V. Carey is right to see this sort of entry as 'overloading'." These remarks appeared in her review in _The Indexer_ (October 1992) of Hazel Bell's _Indexing Biographies and Other Stories of Human Lives_ (London, Society of Indexers, 1992). Having said all this, I must admit that my own indexes of biographies have mostly (so far) had fairly lengthy and complex entries for the subjects of the biographies, but the longest of them runs only to just over two columns, not to eleven. OTOH, I indexed one autobiography without including an entry for its author. From Simon Cauchi, 13 Riverview Terrace, Hamilton 2001, New Zealand Telephone and facsimile +64 7 854 9229. E-mail: cauchi@wave.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 08:56:30 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "A. Wanczura" Subject: Re: synonyms In-Reply-To: <199604222010.NAA03541@vcn.bc.ca> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- On Mon, 22 Apr 1996, Carolyn Weaver wrote: > ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > authors' idiosyncratic vocabularies. I have copies of standard thesauri > for health sciences, psychology, business, etc., and rely on those for what would be an example of a standard thesaurus for psychology or business? Angela wanczura@vcn.bc.ca "Be patient toward all that is unresolved in your heart and try to love the questions themselves." - Rilke ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 08:56:39 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Macrex@aol.com Subject: Macrex Sales & Support Office ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- The original purpose of this message was to notify all interested parties that the Macrex Sales & Support Office will be closed for the week of May 13th. Recent postings to this list suggest that a reminder of the correct address for reaching technical support would be appreciated by some of the members of Index-L. For information about the Macrex indexing software as well as technical support and related issues, please address your mail to Macrex@aol.com directly. Notice! The Macrex Sales & Support Office will be closed from May 11 through May 19, 1996. For those who will be in Denver for the ASI annual meeting, I will arrive in Denver on Tuesday the 14th. Wednesday the 15th is devoted to the Macrex training seminars but I will be available on Thursday through Saturday to answer individual questions. I will be staying at the Executive Tower Inn or you can contact me in advance to arrange a meeting time and place. During this period, E-mail will be checked but not on the normal twice daily basis. While I would hope that ALL Macrex users will be attending the ASI conference, those who are not able to attend should schedule crises before the 11th or after the 19th . Calls to me at the hotel will be returned on a time available basis. Gale Rhoades Director Macrex Sales & Support Office macrex@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 08:56:50 ECT Reply-To: EBENNETT@SHRSYS.HSLC.ORG Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elizabeth Bennett Subject: Indexing in a group ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >On Thu, 11 Apr 1996, Elaine Shuman wrote: >> Has anyone worked in an indexing group?... >> What has that experience been like? Also has anyone worked >> with another indexer, either as an apprentice or mentor? > I think that working in a group may be more common for database indexers. I manage a group of indexers, some in-house and some freelance. I train new indexers, review and correct the work of almost all the indexers in the group, and do general quality control work for the database. Working with a group has definite advantages -- you always have someone with whom to discuss your esoteric questions (besides this list). Also, I think it's very helpful to be able to get multiple perspectives on how to approach whatever topics recur in the material, and on what to do about new topics (we index cutting-edge medical literature, so we're always ahead of the curve, and the vocabulary). Besides, who else will get your jokes? Elizabeth Z. Bennett, Ph.D. Senior Editor, Database and Nomenclature Systems Group ECRI 5200 Butler Pike Plymouth Meeting, PA 19462 (610) 825-6000 ext. 373 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 09:31:28 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Patricia Buchanan Subject: Indexing biographies ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I indexed my first biography a couple of months ago and enjoyed it tremendously. Very unlike regular indexing as the index itself tells the story of a person - personal life, professional career, etc. I used as one of my bibles the publication by Hazel Bell, "Indexing Biographies and Other Stories of Human Lives," (1992) put out by the Society of Indexers in England. It cost approximately $14 Cdn and they were very prompt in sending it to me - I included the cost of airmailing it back to Canada. The address of the Society of Indexers is: 38 Rochester Road, London, UK NW1 9JS She discusses all the problems that crop up in biographies as well as the presentation and layout. Hope this helps. Patricia ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 09:31:44 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Biography ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >Question: Should I cite the works of the biography's subject when mentioned >and quoted in the index? I would include substantive instances of works of >other authors mentioned, but since the book is about the subject, should I >include his works as well? Yes, I would include substantive discussion of his works, but not passing mentions. > >Question: Also, for those of you who do this kind of book, what's your >philosophy on how much to put under the subject's name? I always have to >debate this with myself. I automatically put material in that is about the >subject (e.g. illnesses, marriage, appointment to university position, etc), >but what about his views on the main subjects of his life's work, which form >the major themes of the book? Most of the book is about his views on society, >authority, political power and freedom. Of course all of these items are >listed separately. What would you look for under his name? It sounds as if you would then be putting just about everything under the subject's entry, which would make that entry far too long. I would list just the key events: birth (or childhood), illnesses, marriage, appointment to ..., death, etc. Depending on how much space is devoted to his works, you could also list the works as sub-subs: Schmoe, Joe: birth; illnesses; marriage _works_: _My First Book_; _My Second Book_ Or some such arrangement (but still have main entries for the works even if you list them under the subject). Be sure to spell out in an introductory note to the index anything that would help the reader to use it. I haven't done many biographies myself, so I'll be interested in what others have to say, too. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | Life is good. Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | Milwaukee, WI | ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 09:32:43 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elaine Shuman Subject: Excel ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I am a beginning indexer and have heard that Excel can be used for indexing. If you use Excel for indexing can you tell me how? Thanks Elaine ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 14:48:10 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JanCW@aol.com Subject: Re: Excel ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In a message dated 96-04-30 09:42:35 EDT, you write: >I am a beginning indexer and have heard that Excel can be used for indexing. >If you use Excel for indexing can you tell me how? Thanks Hi Elaine, I use excel all the time when I'm indexing, but usually in combination with Cindex and other tools. Cindex can import and export a .dat file that Excel can read or write to. What I usually use Excel for is: a. Online help keyword indexes, using two columns for entries and a third for jump id codes. Then you use macros to put the keywords into the help files. You can sort in Excel by jump code or alphabetically, which makes it easy to write keywords, then sort out which ones go into which file and topic. b. Updating old indexes for a new edition. Because Excel has any number of columns, and color text, I use annotation columns, color coding, a column for old page numbers, a column for the new page numbers, whatever I need. Then when it is ready, I strip out the unneeded data, import it into Cindex, format it, and wellah! an index. c. Indexes that need strange or unusual notations or codes to keep track of; again, using xtra columns for whatever information I need to track. These are usually for some kind of tagged indexing system that requires codes and macros to get the index entries in place. d. Translation tools - I will often generate an Excel file if an index needs to be translated, and insert additional columns for the translated entries. The translator can sort alphabetically, translate everything, then sort numerically and track page number changes. Then it gets handed back to me, I rig Cindex to deal with voir references instead of see references, import the index, and generate the translated index. The one problem with Excel is that it has a tendency to think that 10-12 means October 12th, and will change some of your page ranges to dates if you aren't careful. I will often have three columns for page numbers to solve this: | 10 | - | 12 | Let me know if I can answer any questions about this! Jan Wright