From: SMTP%"LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu" 12-AUG-1997 14:54:36.33 To: CIRJA02 CC: Subj: File: "INDEX-L LOG9706D" Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 14:32:57 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9706D" To: CIRJA02@GSVMS1.CC.GASOU.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 05:21:07 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Helvetia M. Martell" Subject: Re: Vision/glasses, etc. Has anybody used the computer desk that allows to place the computer monitor on a tilted shelf below the table top? It allows the visual field to go down instead of straight up. I have been thinking about trying one of these, expecting that if the screen is at that angle/distance, the lower part of the bifocals or progressive lenses will be used to read both the printed text on the desk and the text on the screen. Both would be almost at the same distance/level. These desks are not easy to find, but I just saw one on an office furniture catalog for Boise. Any thoughts? Helvetia ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 07:33:41 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: Vision/glasses, etc. I have a desk something like this--cost $99 when I got it six months ago from Lowe's. I use computer glasses (intermediate correction) to read both the text and the screen. My setup is the monitor is just above the slanted shelf and the proofs are on the slanted shelf. Works great. (No swiveling of my neck necessary, etc.) At 05:21 AM 6/22/97 -0500, Helvetia M. Martell wrote: >Has anybody used the computer desk that allows to place the computer monitor >on a tilted shelf below the table top? It allows the visual field to go >down instead of straight up. I have been thinking about trying one of >these, expecting that if the screen is at that angle/distance, the lower >part of the bifocals or progressive lenses will be used to read both the >printed text on the desk and the text on the screen. Both would be almost at >the same distance/level. These desks are not easy to find, but I just saw >one on an office furniture catalog for Boise. Any thoughts? > >Helvetia > > ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 12:24:13 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: copyright Dick Evans asked: What about you folks not affiliated with institutions who are just doing your own workshops? If you wanted to do an indexing exercise, where would you get the material? I prefer to use the client's own materials. Lori ********************************************************************** Lori Lathrop ---------->INTERNET:76620.456@compuserve.com Lathrop Media Services, P.O. Box 3065, Idaho Springs, CO 80452 Office: 303-567-4447, ext. 28 / Fax: 303-567-9306 URL: http://idt.net/~lathro19 (Note: Thats's a "nineteen" at the end) ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 13:03:12 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: copyright At 12:24 PM 6/22/97 EDT, you wrote: >Dick Evans asked: > > What about you folks not affiliated with institutions who are > just doing your own workshops? If you wanted to do an indexing > exercise, where would you get the material? > >I prefer to use the client's own materials. > And if the people in the workshop are not all from the same client? Dick ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 13:49:15 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: WordenDex@AOL.COM Subject: Fwd: ASI logo pins Sorry if this duplicates a previous note, but an earlier posting to Index-L at the above address was sent to a no-longer operable Forest Service site and an attempt to contact Charlotte Skuster at her address listed in Key Words came back as "User Unknown." --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: ASI logo pins Date: 97-06-21 15:01:28 EDT From: WordenDex To: index-l@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu This is an announcement for all indexers who couldn't get to ASI's annual meeting last month: Gold lapel pins debuted at the Winston-Salem annual meeting, May 14-17, as a fundraising project of ASI's Heartland Chapter. Each pin is 3/4" high x 5/16" wide x 1/16" thick and replicates ASI's attractive logo, perfect for the business attire you'd wear while visiting clients or giving presentations. Made of a solid brass and nickel core with a 24K gold finish, pins can be purchased individually for yourself or in bulk as gifts for colleagues who support your services, clients who are appreciative of the work you do, or guest speakers at your ASI meetings. Prepaid orders accepted only. They are $10 each or $93 for a package of 10 pins (shipping and handling included). Make your check payable to ASI Heartland Chapter, and mail with your order to Diane Worden, Pin Rep 116 Dixie Avenue Kalamazoo, MI 49001 Heartland Chapter members want to be sure all indexers are aware of their pins' availability, so please pass the word on to your colleagues who may not be Index-L subscribers. Diane in Kazoo ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 14:57:12 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jillbarret@AOL.COM Subject: Re: scholarly author indexes, creation & uses of Cynthia, Thank you for responding to my question. As it turns out, I was in contact with the author and editor about this while waiting for a response from index-l. The editor agreed that if the index was to be selective the author would have to give his input on the most important authors to include. In the meantime, however, the author decided to pretty much use an exhaustive index of all authors cited. When he proofs his copy he plans to strike out the few that he feels can be ommitted. What I was trying to say about the footnotes is that the authors are rarely mentioned in the text at all. To make the text less cumbersome and easier to read, the writer of the commentary footnoted nearly all the author citations. Therefore, I couldn't tell how many lines or paragraphs where given to discussing the views of the author credited in the footnote. It's interesting to note the different ways scholars use the author index. The writer of this commentary likes to have subentries for each author that show which works are cited in the book. There is a separate bibliography in this book, but he finds it helpful to see from the index which works by a particular author are cited, and where he can find a discussion on a particular work by the author he is looking up without having to go through a long string of undifferentiated locaters. Makes sense... Well, this is a long book, I'd better get back to it. Thanks again for your reply! Jill Jill Barrett Indexing Services ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 20:48:44 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Computers inside desks My other half has the kind of desk you are talking about, with the monitor positioned under a glass panel in the center of the desk. There are compartments for the CPU, printer, etc, on the left-hand side of the desk. He's certainly been very happy with the way that system works. He finds the focal length and placement of the monitor works well with his bifocals. Plus, you don't have the monitor itself taking up desk space, although you do have to keep the glass pane clear of clutter. It was rather cumbersome to set the monitor up the first time, as one is working in a restricted space with a rather bulky object. But once it is in place, it's done with. And you're right, those desks are difficult to find. Fred Leise Between the Lines Indexing and Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 19:58:32 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Willa MacAllen Organization: MacAllen's Information Service Subject: Re: Indexing Proposal Happy Monday: I have a proposal to write for an indexing project that involves indexing newsletters. Can you tell me what an appropriate rate is to charge for a project like this. Is it better to charge per hour, per entry or per page? I know that the rate issue has been discussed ad infinitum before. However, I think rates have been discussed in terms of books, and I'd like to know whether rates would vary for indexing newsletters or other types of documents. I'd like to turn the proposal in before the end of this week, so would appreciate feedback by midweek, if possible. Thanks, as usual, in advance. Willa MacAllen MacAllen's Information Services Librarian/Technical Writer Boston macallen@tiac.net (Wondering when the heat will leave the city of Boston....and almost wishing that it were September, already......!) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 07:58:48 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Chantal Hamill Organization: Steedman Ramage Subject: Re: corporate names Rosalind Lund wrote: > > >Thanks, Chantal > > > >The problem with the CD is that although anyone could certainly find > >Parry simply by keying in Parry, they might find lots of Parrys and > >wouldn't know which one was which until they had searched as far as the > >finding aid itself, which is all time-consuming. The problem here is > >obviously with the search-engine of the CD and shouldn't really happen! > > My response to Chantal above, came back to me as undeliverable. Maybe > it actually got through, in which apologies for sending it again. If it > didn't, well, I'm hoping for the best this time. > > Email and the Web are wonderful, but sometimes there are glitsches! > > -- > Rosalind Lund > 1 Arbury Road > Cambridge CB4 2JB > England > email : rosalind@lundboox.demon.co.uk > Catalogue on the Web: http://antiquarian.com/lund-theological > Phone +44 (0)1223 565303 > Fax +44 (0)1223 565206 Thank you. I was having technichal problems last week, and have transferred this list to another address. Chantal Hamill. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 18:58:11 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Judy Webster Subject: Indexes for family & local historians I have been asked to write a journal article about indexing, with particular reference to indexes to archival sources, newspapers & other items that are used by family historians, local historians and academic historians here in Australia. I am seeking the views of index *users*. I presume that many subscribers to this list are concerned mainly with back-of-book indexes, but perhaps someone out there would like to comment. 1. What features do you consider essential in a good index? (e.g. introduction with explanatory remarks?) 2. Some indexes are not user-friendly. What are your pet peeves? Thanks an advance for any comments. Judy -------------------------------------------------------------- Judy Webster, PO Box 2044, Salisbury East QLD 4107, Australia E-mail: judyweb@st.net.au Silent phone number Central Register page: http://www.tsm.com.au/~chris/cri/cri.html Compiler of Central Register of Indexing Projects in Australia & various indexes to QLD records; AAGRA-accredited researcher. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:54:20 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: copyright Dick asked: >And if the people in the workshop are not all from the same client?> Sorry ... I thought you already had the answer to that. Take the advice others have given you, and contact the publisher to request permission to use a chapter for one-time use in a workshop. Lori ********************************************************************** Lori Lathrop ---------->INTERNET:76620.456@compuserve.com Lathrop Media Services, P.O. Box 3065, Idaho Springs, CO 80452 Office: 303-567-4447, ext. 28 / Fax: 303-567-9306 URL - http://idt.net/~lathro19 (note: that's a "nineteen" at the end) ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 09:51:57 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Larry Baker/GRI/International Thomson Publishing Subject: Monitors under glass Saw mention of desks that have the PC monitor under glass and that the desks are hard to find. My wife and I saw that desk at the "General Store" (or something as generic-sounding as that) in Boothbay Harbor, Maine. We loved the desk, hated the price ($2,000, I think), although we both agreed that if we were going to spend that kind of money on a desk --- that'd be the one! Larry Baker Larry_Baker@gale.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 10:31:39 -0400 Reply-To: nimannin@up.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nancy Manninen Organization: Portage Health System Subject: Re: magazine/CINDEX index help Mary Beth : I use an older version of Cindex. It seems that you could adapt a style that Medline uses for its journal articles which have comments. It incorporates the comment citation in with the main citation. You have a cleaner citation then that looks like : UI- 96374177 AU - Singer AJ AU - McCracken G AU - Henry MC TI - Correlation among clinical, laboratory, and hepatobiliary scanning findings in patients with suspected acute cholecystitis [see comments] CM - Comment in: Ann Emerg Med 1996 Sep;28(3):347-9 SO - Ann Emerg Med 1996 Sep;28(3):267-72 You might play with this idea of incorporating the comments into one record. Medline also indexed the citation with reference to the original source. Is there a practical reason why this information is indexed by department rather than subject? I assume that you have the Cindex instruction manual and know the \b \B are codes for putting titles, etc. in boldface print. You can print the subject authority list using the command Print/Summary. You could depending on your situation make separate subject entries for forms like Book Reviews or whatever. Nancy Manninen Portage Health System nimannin@up.net; 906-487-7846 Mary Beth Kiss wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > This is my first time posting a question (or two) but I hope someone out > there can give me some ideas or suggestions. > > I've inherited a several years of a magazine index all done in CINDEX. > The company of course wants them cumulated and usuable. Okay, no problem. > I have run up against a couple of quirks though and I'd appreciate some > suggestions. > > First, every article was entered with the department following the title in > parenthesis. (Ex. \b<">Way to go Bob"\B (BR), where BR stands for Book > Review) Often there might have been follow-up comments by readers. These > were placed in the Comment section of the magazine with the same title. (Ex. > \b<">Way to go Bob"\B (Com) where Com stands for comment.) Of course, the > way it is typed here when the master index is printed there are two entries > one for the BR and one for the Com. I'd like to see one title in the index. > Yet, there still needs to be some way to differentiate between the main > article and the comments. I can't move the dept. codes to follow the > author's names because the author might appear more than once with different > dept. codes as well. Any ideas? > > Now, this is a CINDEX specific question. I'm to do upcoming issues of this > magazine as well. I figured that since I had the other years in Cindex, I'd > create an authority file of terms so I will be consistent. I've been able to > print the raw authority list (using view/summary and then print commands), > but this mixes in the article titles with the subjects and author names. Is > there someway to eliminate the titles? They all appear with \b\B coding, > nothing else has that same coding. > > Can I print this authority file to Word so I can format it, etc.? I tried > once today and it eliminated all my words that were coded for ital. and > bolded everything else. I'd like to try and save some paper since the index > is for 6 years already. > > Any help or suggestions are greatly appreciated. > > Thanks in advance to everyone. I've been enjoying following the list, > although I haven't had much indexing lately, I've been saving the files of > ideas, etc. for future use! > > Mary Beth Kiss -- Nancy Manninen Portage Health System E-mail : nimannin@up.net Library/Archives Voice : 906-487-7846 Hancock MI 49930-1495 Fax: 906-482-3080 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 10:52:49 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: WordenDex@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Indexing Proposal Willa, Your bidding project for indexing a newsletter *could* be handled in the same way you'd bid on indexing books by using the Mean Average Method (MAM) for both. I've suggested this method previously. Most folks prefer not to deal with it either because they are comfortable with their own Single Factor Method (pick one: hour, page, entry, etc) or they think they are "math challenged." I like MAM because it's fair (the client pays only for what s/he receives and the indexer is compensated for exactly what s/he creates) and no one over- or underestimates anything because all work is done before the indexer generates the bill. MAM uses rates for indexing factors from Writer's Market, INDEX-L communications, ASI surverys, etc: hours worked, indexable pages, number of entries, number of locators. The final factor is what the client is willing to pay. Multiply each factor by the rate chosen, add them all up, and divide by the number of factors used. Bill that result. Diane in Kazoo ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 11:10:42 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Parrish Subject: Re: Copyright "What about you folks not affiliated with institutions who are just doing your own workshops? If you wanted to do an indexing exercise, where would you get the material? Dick" I do not give workshops, but if I did and if I wanted to avoid copyright hassles, I would call or e-mail one of the old codgers I know who have privately published their own memoirs. These are unindexed, and in imagination I have given them indexes as gifts. I would ask if they would give me permission to use their books in exercises. They would be pleased! Do you know anyone like this who has written suitable books? I'll bet you do-- Ann Parrish Parrish Professional Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 12:16:33 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Stephanie Olivo Subject: Seeking Advice I have been out of the indexing field for many years. I go back to the days of shoe boxes and 3 x 5 cards. I am interested in re-entering this profession after having been a college catalog editor, a full-time mom, a church administrator, a home school teacher and a yarn shop owner. I would like advice about 3 things: 1. Software - for back of the book indexes primarily - we have a NEC 9610 with Windows 95 and Word. 2. What should I do to sharpen my skills? 3. Is there one branch of publishing which seems most fertile for indexers these days. I used to have the most luck with university presses. Thanks so much for any help you can give me. Please e-mail me privately at SBO12441@aol.com Stephanie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 12:25:51 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Gale Rhoades Subject: Re: Vision/glasses, etc. My mother has one of these computer desks -- she loves it; I don't. She is only a part time user and like being able to use the desk surface for other projects. I find I keep covering up the screen with books and papers -- for me an over the desk (and moveable) monitor arm works much better. One adaptation she made is really nice if you decide to get the desk. She went to a local plexiglas store and had them custom make a desktop protector. They cut out a window the same size as the glass window. When Mother uses the computer, she lifts out this piece -- it is in place for all other usage, protecting the viewing glass from nicks and scratches. Gale Rhoades In a message dated 97-06-22 06:24:05 EDT, you write: << Has anybody used the computer desk that allows to place the computer monitor on a tilted shelf below the table top? >> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 11:57:22 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: David Robert Austen Subject: Re: Copyright In-Reply-To: <199706231511.KAA09233@cayman.ucs.indiana.edu> I agree, Ann, and the local bookstore might have 100 copies to clear out at a dollar each, one for each of your students . . . DRA On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Ann Parrish wrote: > "What about you folks not affiliated with institutions who are just doing > your own workshops? If you wanted to do an indexing exercise, where would > you get the material? > > Dick" > > I do not give workshops, but if I did and if I wanted to avoid copyright > hassles, I would call or e-mail one of the old codgers I know who have > privately published their own memoirs. These are unindexed, and in > imagination I have given them indexes as gifts. I would ask if they would > give me permission to use their books in exercises. They would be pleased! > > Do you know anyone like this who has written suitable books? I'll bet you > do-- > > Ann Parrish > Parrish Professional Indexing > ------------------- David Robert Austen Masters Degree Program in Information Science Indiana University, Bloomington Indiana 47405 U.S.A. Telephone 812 335 8835 Fax 812 335 8598 -------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 15:35:34 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "H. D. Colclough" Subject: Re: ASI SIG for Science and Medicine Please send information to: H.D. Colclough 3016 Eschol Ave. Zion, IL 60099 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 17:15:12 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: Monitors under Glass I have been lusting after a desk-mounted monitor for some years, but currently do not have the space for it. My catalogs are not to hand, but I think Global Computer Supply may carry them and the cost is around $350. [More later if I discover the TRUE source.] Dave T. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 20:09:00 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Angela Howard Subject: What backup software do you use? I was just reading some of the posts on how people back up their files (I know, I'm a little behind on my email), and I was curious as to what software you recommend to do backups. I have a PC running Win95 and a zip drive. What I want is a feature that will COPY all the files in selected directories to my zip drive IF they have changed since the last time I copied them. My zip drive came with a zip tools program called Copy Machine, that will copy one disk to another disk (and look for only those files that've changed), but it won't let me select only certain directories. It'll just copy one whole disk (e.g., my hard drive) to another (e.g., my zip dirve). I don't need or want to copy my whole hard drive, because most of it is software that I have the CDs for, and I can just re-install them. On Win95, there's Microsoft Backup, but it puts all the backed up files in one big QIC file, and I don't want to deal with having to use backup software to backup and restore files in and out of some specialized format. I don't entirely trust it; I just want the files copied so I can use them directly. (Maybe I'm just being paranoid.) If you have any suggestions for me, I'd really appreciate it! I know this is off-topic, so you can reply directly to me if no one else is interested. Thanks!!! ___________________________________ Angela M. Howard Technical Writing and Indexing AMHoward@aol.com ___________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 20:41:03 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Sena" Subject: Re: What backup software do you use? Dear Angela, I too use a ZIP drive to back up my files. When I bought my drive, Iomega supplied a zip tool named "One Step Backup," which does allow the user to specify, among other things, exactly what files/directories to include in the backup, and it retains these settings until they are changed. On my machine the name of the program is backup32.exe (for backup, the program should be run with a /B parameter). However, this also compresses the backup into a single file. One uses the same program (without the /B parameter) to restore the files if necessary. Actually, I'm not entirely satisfied with this "One Step Backup" program, so I'm also interested in hearing about other back-up software. Best Regards, Dave Sena ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 17:17:55 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Larry Baker/GRI/International Thomson Publishing Subject: Fancy-schmancy desk I should have mentioned that the $2000-or-so monitor-under-glass desk was also an exceptional piece of furniture, well-crafted, with neato drawers, etc. -- the kind of desk you'd see at Monticello or Mount Vernon or something and think, "They don't make furniture like that anymore." So. Yeah, you probably can find monitor-under-glass desks for cheaper than two grand, but, mmm, mmm, mmm, I'd knock out a wall in my little suburban house for that baby if I had the moolah! Larry Baker Larry_Baker@gale.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 21:48:17 -0500 Reply-To: davidaus@indiana.edu Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: david robert austen Subject: Re: What backup software do you use? Hi, Dave: I could never get their SW to work properly, so I just use DOS commands in a batch file in backup: like copying in the usual way, from one disk to another. Think its the Xcopy command. . . . DRA David M. Sena wrote: > > Dear Angela, > > I too use a ZIP drive to back up my files. When I bought my drive, Iomega > supplied a zip tool named "One Step Backup," which does allow the user to > specify, among other things, exactly what files/directories to include in > the backup, and it retains these settings until they are changed. On my > machine the name of the program is backup32.exe (for backup, the program > should be run with a /B parameter). However, this also compresses the > backup into a single file. One uses the same program (without the /B > parameter) to restore the files if necessary. > > Actually, I'm not entirely satisfied with this "One Step Backup" program, so > I'm also interested in hearing about other back-up software. > > Best Regards, > > Dave Sena ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 21:57:13 -0500 Reply-To: davidaus@indiana.edu Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: david robert austen Subject: Re: What backup software do you use? What you want to do is called a differential or incremental backup, as opposed to a full backup. Differential follows the full backup and shows always the difference between your hard disk today and what it was the last time it was ''fully" backed up. Incremental backups keep adding to the backup disk those new or changed files that have been added/changed since the last full backup. This disk grows and grows until it is too full and then you need to start over with another full backup. I believe that it will just add without overwriting files. Hope this helps you - and somebody tell me if I am wrong about these explanations, please. I do my best . . . . DRA --- Angela Howard wrote: > > I was just reading some of the posts on how people back up their files (I > know, I'm a little behind on my email), and I was curious as to what software > you recommend to do backups. I have a PC running Win95 and a zip drive. > > What I want is a feature that will COPY all the files in selected directories > to my zip drive IF they have changed since the last time I copied them. My > zip drive came with a zip tools program called Copy Machine, that will copy > one disk to another disk (and look for only those files that've changed), but > it won't let me select only certain directories. It'll just copy one whole > disk (e.g., my hard drive) to another (e.g., my zip dirve). I don't need or > want to copy my whole hard drive, because most of it is software that I have > the CDs for, and I can just re-install them. > > On Win95, there's Microsoft Backup, but it puts all the backed up files in > one big QIC file, and I don't want to deal with having to use backup software > to backup and restore files in and out of some specialized format. I don't > entirely trust it; I just want the files copied so I can use them directly. > (Maybe I'm just being paranoid.) > > If you have any suggestions for me, I'd really appreciate it! I know this is > off-topic, so you can reply directly to me if no one else is interested. > Thanks!!! > ___________________________________ > > Angela M. Howard > Technical Writing and Indexing > AMHoward@aol.com > ___________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 20:54:48 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Martha Osgood Subject: Re: Thanks and Review >Many thanks - and lots of virtual chocolate - to CELmates Elaine >Firestone, Elinor Lindheimer, Sonsie, Lindsay Gower, Nancy Sibman, Anne >Taylor, Laura Gottlieb, Carol Roberts, and Victoria Baker for some good >advice! > >Although a colon following the number of the Psalms was a good idea, as >was italicizing or bolding the number in order to distinguish it from the >locator, I decided in this particular case to spell out the numbers. I >also chose to include the helpers: "Shiva (Hinduism)" for my particular >audience. And I followed the author in the other items I queried, even >though the author seemed inconsistent. I appreciate all your excellent >suggestions! ****************************************************** Martha Osgood osgood@darkwing.uoregon.edu Back Words Indexing 541-484-1180 Eugene, OR ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 05:13:53 -0700 Reply-To: ljm2001@pacbell.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Laura Michelow Subject: Takeover, Handover, or Reversion There was a discussion on index-l a while ago about the handover of Hong Kong, and what the preferred term might be. In that vein, William Safire wrote an article about language in last Sunday's NY Times in which he discussed this question. Unfortunately, unless you have AOL, it can't be viewed online, as far as I know. The NY Times general website doesn't archive articles or print the Sunday magazine at the moment. If you do have AOL, the keyword is: NYT Home & Living. The article is titled: On Language: Takeover, Handover, or Reversion, and it's in the Styles section. His take on the subject is that the word you choose for the transaction depends on your political viewpoint. There's also some funny stuff in the rest of the article. It might be worth a trip to the library to look it up. Laura ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 08:35:20 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PilarW@AOL.COM Subject: Monitors under glass Does anybody know if the desks used on Star Trek (Voyager? DS9? Picard's?) sets are real or pretend? I don't pay much attention to the credits, but will take a gander next time. Seriously, that might be a good source?! Pilar, a persistent Star Trek fan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- L. Pilar Wyman * Wyman Indexing * PilarW@aol.com Great Indexes for Great Books ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 06:04:46 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: Monitors under glass I'm sure there are advantages to the monitors under glass, but there are also desks with recessed and slanted monitor stands that are open and do not have a glass window. I guess it's my compulsive side, but I wonder why adding another opportunity for glare would be helpful. I couldn't use either because I have a pivoting monitor. But it also seems to me that such a setup would complicate making monitor adjustments. I think that any ergonomic advantage would be lost, if a person looked down at the monitor for long hours each day. I continue to find that a more direct line-of-sight, with my head perched straight (more-or-less) on top of my spine, is comfortable. Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@powergrid.electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 08:40:24 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Charles R. Anderson" Subject: Re: Indexing Proposal I never saw your previous posts on the MAM (Mean Average Method) but I have been using that method (without a name) for 25 years. I've always calculated the costs using entry, hour, page, etc. and then struck a balance in the final bill. I find this works best with editors that I have worked for for many years, who trust me to always bill fairly and are not particularly interested in a blind up-front quote. Thanks for giving a name to what I am doing! Charles Anderson Charles Anderson c.anderson.seattle@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 16:13:24 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Takeover, Handover, or Reversion The article from the NY Times is shown below. Interesting, the choices that are made!! Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing =================== On Language: Takeover, Handover or Reversion By WILLIAM SAFIRE Where you stand depends on where you sit" is a political adage. In the same way, where you stand often determines the word you choose. Take the impending transfer of Hong Kong on July 1, after the British lease on the island territory runs out. If you look at the change as a legal seizure by China, you tend to use the grabby noun takeover, with its hostile connotation based on American finance. "This is an area that views the takeover of Hong Kong by China," an old Asia hand told a financial reporter this month, "as the end of the Opium War started in 1850." If you think of it as a British action, more of an old empire's giving than a new empire's taking, then you are likely to prefer handover. "Businessmen ... involved in Hong Kong's handover," noted a New York Times dispatch from Shanghai, "say they must try to bridge the gap." In The Wall Street Journal, the British governor urged the United States not to impose trade restrictions "after the handover." He also used another term: "after its reversion to Chinese sovereignty." If you are eager to make obeisances to the Chinese, who want it remembered that the ancient city spent only 150 years under the British flag, then you use the word Beijing prefers: reversion, which means "going back to a former state." If you want to be scrupulously neutral and are attracted to the colorless, you use return. In the past year, The New York Times chose return about half the time, takeover a fourth, reversion and its variants a little less than a fourth and handover about 5 percent. (Zero for relinquishment, a word that reveals more of a pedantic affectation than a political slant.) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 16:54:55 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Healy Subject: Is there a list I have not received Index-L posts for several days. Surely things can't be that quiet! Sue Healy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 16:49:51 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: KGarcia549@AOL.COM Subject: Re: ASI SIG for Science and Medicine Please include Kathy Garcia in ASI SIG for Science and Medicine, I have already sent two e-mails but have heard nothing, Please acknowledge receipt of this e-mail. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 14:10:59 -0700 Reply-To: ljm2001@pacbell.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Laura Michelow Subject: Re: Takeover, Handover, or Reversion JPerlman@AOL.COM wrote: > > The article from the NY Times is shown below. Interesting, the choices that > are made!! > > Janet Perlman > Southwest Indexing > =================== > On Language: Takeover, Handover or Reversion > > By WILLIAM SAFIRE > > Where you stand depends on where you sit" is a political adage. In the same > way, where you stand often determines the word you choose. Take the impending > transfer of Hong Kong on July 1, after the British lease on the island > territory runs out. > > If you look at the change as a legal seizure by China, you tend to use the > grabby noun takeover, with its hostile connotation based on American finance. > "This is an area that views the takeover of Hong Kong by China," an old Asia > hand told a financial reporter this month, "as the end of the Opium War > started in 1850." > > If you think of it as a British action, more of an old empire's giving than > a new empire's taking, then you are likely to prefer handover. "Businessmen > ... involved in Hong Kong's handover," noted a New York Times dispatch from > Shanghai, "say they must try to bridge the gap." In The Wall Street Journal, > the British governor urged the United States not to impose trade restrictions > "after the handover." He also used another term: "after its reversion to > Chinese sovereignty." > > If you are eager to make obeisances to the Chinese, who want it remembered > that the ancient city spent only 150 years under the British flag, then you > use the word Beijing prefers: reversion, which means "going back to a former > state." > > If you want to be scrupulously neutral and are attracted to the colorless, > you use return. > > In the past year, The New York Times chose return about half the time, > takeover a fourth, reversion and its variants a little less than a fourth and > handover about 5 percent. (Zero for relinquishment, a word that reveals more > of a pedantic affectation than a political slant.) Here's the rest of the article: LYING FLAT "Lying prone on beds or cots" was the caption of a drawing in Newsweek showing a body lying toes upward, accompanying its coverage of suicides in the "Heaven's Gate" cult near San Diego. "I sent a rather cranky complaint to Newsweek," reports Donald Crosby of Springfield, Va., "that it had incorrectly used the word prone to describe the terminal position of the suicide victims." The magazine responded: "While your suggestion, supine, would also have been correct, our use of prone was based on the meaning 'lying flat or prostrate, in a horizontal position' given in Webster's New World Dictionary. ... We stand by our usage, though we appreciate your concerns." Crosby is not placated. "When my drill instructor screamed at me to assume the prone position when I was firing the M-1 rifle in 1945," he writes, "his physical well-being (and mine) would have been jeopardized had I arbitrarily chosen to fire my M-1 in the supine position on the assumption that prone and supine are synonymous." They are not. Newsweek chose to cover its error by pointing to the Webster's New World second, or fuzzy, definition, ignoring its first: "lying or leaning face downward." Moreover, in a note about synonymy, the dictionary reports that "prone, in strict use, implies a position in which the front part of the body lies upon or faces the ground; supine implies a position in which one lies on one's back." WNW, now published by the Macmillan division of Simon & Schuster and edited by Michael Agnes, goes on to illustrate the latter with "he snores when he sleeps in a supine position," an observation with which my wife grimly agrees. (A pillow acts as a kind of muffler when one snores in a prone position, but it makes it hard to breathe.) Supine has another sense of "mentally or morally inactive; listless." That does not describe the irate Crosby, a retired university professor, who asks: "If prone and supine can be used interchangeably, what's next? Infer and imply? Loan (the noun) and lend (the verb)? Will hot and cold become synonyms, with their once-specific qualities regulated by the subjective caprice of the user?" Nosirree, prof., not with MASS -- Mothers Against Semantic Shift -- manning the ramparts. Only recently, at a meeting of the Judson Welliver Society of Former White House Speechwriters, an editor of The New Yorker assured me that his publication will never again confuse flaunt, "to make an ostentatious display," with flout, "to show scorn." The good usage fight is always worth fighting. SUPINING AWAY I pronounce supine soo-PINE; most younger people, and most modern American dictionaries, prefer SOO-pine. That shift of emphasis from the back of the word to the front is an example of "recessive accent," the tendency of English (and German) speakers to stress the first part of a multisyllabic word. We take French words like menu, charlatan and souvenir and switch 'em around. Same thing happens when compound verbs like hand over and take over are squeezed together into one-word nouns; the accent moves from the o in over to the hand and the take. ("Hand OHver that island, Brits." "OK; the HANDover will take place July 1.") Pronunciation fans have objected to my recent diktat about seminal, which I wrote is pronounced "SEE-men-ul, contrary to what you hear from bowdlerizing academics." "Despite what the sperm banker would assert," writes Charles Harrington Elster of San Diego, "there is no SEE in seminal, nor in disseminate, seminary and seminar, all of which sprang from the same seed (Latin semen), pronounced with a short e: SEM-un-ul." No doubt I'm in a minority; Merriam-Webster's Third International gives my way as a less-common alternative, and only old British pronunciation guides say SEE-mun-ul. "The SEE was a deviation," Edmund Weiner, deputy chief editor of the OED, informs me, "used by people who wanted to emphasize the connection (hardly more than etymological now) with semen." With that point made, I will now adopt SEM-un-ul, though it makes me seem SOO-pine. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 18:08:06 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: ASI SIG for Science and Medicine To everyone who contacted me about the ASI SIG for Science and Medicine: I sent your forms to you as soon as I received your messages to me with names and addresses. I apologize that I have not answered each of you personally but it has not been possible. You should be receiving your forms soon, if you haven't already. At 04:49 PM 6/24/97 -0400, KGarcia549@AOL.COM wrote: >Please include Kathy Garcia in ASI SIG for Science and Medicine, I have >already sent two e-mails but have heard nothing, Please acknowledge receipt >of this e-mail. > > ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 08:36:34 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: WordenDex@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Indexing Proposal Charles, Wonderful to hear that someone else actually uses the Mean Average Method (MAM) of billing. I think it will still be accurate to say, when discussing billing with potential clients, that *most* indexers usually bill according to the Single Factor Method. Trust is an unnamed but important factor built into MAM. Thank you for bringing it to the forefront. Diane in Kazoo ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 09:55:07 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: What backup software do you use? In-Reply-To: <199706240407.XAA18409@mixcom.mixcom.com> Angela, I use DiskFit by Dantz on my Mac and back up onto Zip disks. It does exactly what you describe--that is, lots of control over what to back up and updates only stuff that's changed since the last backup. And I can create different backup sets (e.g., 1 set that's only my documents; one set that's documents plus programs). I don't know whether this software is available for PCs. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:04:55 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sue Tortora Subject: Re: Monitors under glass We have monitors under glass at my place of full time employment. While they are nice and certainly "futuristic looking", they are not healthy for those of us who tend toward cervical problems. My neurosurgeon told me that in order to prevent further problems with my neck (I had surgery 1 year ago), I should not look down to read. Sue Tortora Tortora Indexing Services ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:06:41 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Doug Williams Subject: Backing up to a second hard drive Kamm, I would add to your valuable comments regarding backing up to a second drive, that xcopy may also be used to back up to a floppy in a similar manner. The 1.4 Meg capacity of floppies make it ideal for storing (on or offsite) work(s) in progress. Many years ago, when xcopy was first added to the DOS family of utilities, I wrote a batch program using xcopy's "date" option for one of my clients (a small PR company) to use at the end of each day (if they remembered--or whenever I reminded them, whichever came first). I believe the batch program prompted the user for a date, i.e. today - 1, and then backed up all files within certain directories that had changed since that date. For those without MS Plus! I recommend the Norton Scheduler, which is included with Norton Anti-Virus, and runs under Windows 3.1 or 95. There is a demo version available on the Norton/Symantic web site. Doug Williams ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:06:43 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Doug Williams Subject: The ultimate style sheet Sarah, Sorry I'm a little late on this topic, but I would certainly buy such a book. I've tried to interest my wife, who does much more copy editing than indexing, in doing something similar for years. Whenever style sheet time rolls around, I'm usually the first in her line of fire for the questions, followed by the local library ref desk, etc. I would especially like to see a listing of common trademarks, such as Coca Cola (does it have a dash? are all the letters capitalized? you know what I mean?), because trademarks don't usually change, and they appear frequently in the fiction that my wife edits. I remember many last-minute "shopping" trips to find the definitive spelling, punctuation, and/or capitalization of some common product that we all have heard of but cannot _accurately_ remember. Doug Williams ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:12:41 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "P. Buell" Subject: Re: Monitors under glass In-Reply-To: <199706251705.KAA21510@mx4.u.washington.edu> As a relative newcomer to the Indexers' list I cannot help but note what a decrepit lot we all are. I wonder if there is anyone on the list who does not have problems due to sitting in a chair too long, staring at a computer screen too long, or manipulating the mouse too much... etc., etc. Alas all the ailments that we did not even dream of just a decade or so before. Paul D. Buell PS: Likewise, I could not help but note in going to my C++ course last night for the first time what a decrepit bunch programmers are too. Maybe we should start a thread on what we decrepit lot do to stay in shape. Anyone? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:54:28 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Monitors under glass In-Reply-To: <199706250411.XAA08240@mixcom.mixcom.com> >Does anybody know if the desks used on Star Trek (Voyager? DS9? Picard's?) >sets are real or pretend? I don't pay much attention to the credits, but will >take a gander next time. >Seriously, that might be a good source?! > Pretend. I've seen several programs about the making of Star Trek (and spinoffs). They have graphic artists who design those colorful "monitors." Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:55:00 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Takeover, Handover, or Reversion In-Reply-To: <199706250411.XAA08240@mixcom.mixcom.com> Regarding the NY Times article, I hope no one is violating copyright by posting that article to Index-L. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 17:26:17 -0500 Reply-To: lfetters@caller.infi.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Fetters Organization: InfiNet Subject: Re: Staying in Shape What a good idea--a thread on what we do to stay in shape, or at least prevent further deterioration. I for one, have a Health Rider machine that I hop on whenever the muscles in my back start start to burn. Just riding the machine for 5-10 minutes helps stretch those muscles and improves the pain enough to allow me to work a while longer. I usually exercise on the Health Rider a minimum of 20 minutes a day while watching the news, probably not enough, but better than nothing! Linda Fetters ---------------------------------- P. Buell wrote: > > As a relative newcomer to the Indexers' list I cannot help but note what a > decrepit lot we all are. I wonder if there is anyone on the list who does > not have problems due to sitting in a chair too long, staring at a > computer screen too long, or manipulating the mouse too much... etc., etc. > Alas all the ailments that we did not even dream of just a decade or so > before. Paul D. Buell > > PS: Likewise, I could not help but note in going to my C++ course last > night for the first time what a decrepit bunch programmers are too. Maybe > we should start a thread on what we decrepit lot do to stay in shape. > Anyone? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 19:02:13 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Deborah Stewart Subject: Re: Staying in Shape In-Reply-To: <199706252228.SAA12332@mail.abts.net> Between building a house and clearing 35 acres for a farm, I have to do too much manual labor to become decrepit sitting at a computer. I am becoming decrepit slinging weeds and scratching poison ivy and tarring basement foundations.No rest for the wicked! DMS "Language is the dress of Thought." Stewart Indexing Service dmstewart@abts.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 09:27:00 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Palmer Subject: Re: Staying in Shape Hi, Index-L, I work at a computer all day. I have a pair of glasses that I wear to cut eye strain. I have a wrist mat, an ergonomic chair, a monitor stand and a foot-rest. I bought most of this stuff for my home computer, except that the footrest and monitor stand are replaced by old phone books! I have a list of stretching exercises pinned on my notice board (I'm supposed to do the exercises every hour or two, but I forget). I also go ice-skating twice a week, for an hour each time. I started skating about four years ago. I'm currently training for an exam called "Elementary 1 - dance" which involves demonstrating competence in the Dutch Waltz and the Canasta Tango! This is how I hope to avoid becoming decrepit. If I were a freelance indexer instead of a public servant, I would arrange to go ice skating in the mornings instead of after work! Barbara Palmer Assistant Registrar (Collection Information System) Powerhouse Museum, Sydney barbarap@phm.gov.au Linda Fetters wrote: >What a good idea--a thread on what we do to stay in shape, or at least >prevent further deterioration. >I for one, have a Health Rider machine that I hop on whenever the >muscles in my back start start to burn. Just riding the machine for 5-10 >minutes helps stretch those muscles and improves the pain enough to >allow me to work a while longer. >I usually exercise on the Health Rider a minimum of 20 minutes a day >while watching the news, probably not enough, but better than nothing! ---------------------------------- P. Buell wrote: > > As a relative newcomer to the Indexers' list I cannot help but note what a > decrepit lot we all are. I wonder if there is anyone on the list who does > not have problems due to sitting in a chair too long, staring at a > computer screen too long, or manipulating the mouse too much... etc., etc. > Alas all the ailments that we did not even dream of just a decade or so > before. Paul D. Buell > > PS: Likewise, I could not help but note in going to my C++ course last > night for the first time what a decrepit bunch programmers are too. Maybe > we should start a thread on what we decrepit lot do to stay in shape. > Anyone? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:37:09 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Hughes Subject: Re: What backup software do you use? Hi, We backup our work on rewritable optical disks. One disk holds about 650 MB and the access is very fast. I just copy the work using the file manager whenever I think I've done more than I'd care to repeat. I haven't used any specialized software but I'm glad to hear more about the possibilities. Sharon ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 22:20:33 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marlene London Subject: Staying in Shape Maybe it's my age or something, but my physical and mental health is a priority in my life. Besides, I do better work if I keep in shape. My beautiful black cat gets me out of bed between 5:30 and 6:00 a.m. That's a good time for weeding the garden before playing an hour of tennis with my husband. Right after that I head to my fitness center (a five-minute drive away) for a class using free weights. If I'm particularly ambitious after that, I work out on the machines. Household tasks, sewing, and yard work are great antidotes to fried computer brains -- as is practicing for my weekly piano lessons. Marlene London Profindex@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 13:53:00 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Palmer Subject: Re: Staying in shape Hi, Index-L, I work at a computer all day. I have a pair of glasses that I wear to cut eye strain. I have a wrist mat, an ergonomic chair, a monitor stand and a foot-rest. I bought most of this stuff for my home computer, except that the footrest and monitor stand are replaced by old phone books! I have a list of stretching exercises pinned on my notice board (I'm supposed to do the exercises every hour or two, but I forget). I also go ice-skating twice a week, for an hour each time. I started skating about four years ago. I'm currently training for an exam called "Elementary 1 - dance" which involves demonstrating competence in the Dutch Waltz and the Canasta Tango! This is how I hope to avoid becoming decrepit. If I were a freelance indexer instead of a public servant, I would arrange to go ice skating in the mornings instead of after work! Barbara Palmer Assistant Registrar (Collection Information System) Powerhouse Museum, Sydney barbarap@phm.gov.au Linda Fetters wrote: >What a good idea--a thread on what we do to stay in shape, or at least >prevent further deterioration. >I for one, have a Health Rider machine that I hop on whenever the >muscles in my back start to burn. Just riding the machine for 5-10 >minutes helps stretch those muscles and improves the pain enough to >allow me to work a while longer. >I usually exercise on the Health Rider a minimum of 20 minutes a day >while watching the news, probably not enough, but better than nothing! ---------------------------------- P. Buell wrote: > > As a relative newcomer to the Indexers' list I cannot help but note what a > decrepit lot we all are. I wonder if there is anyone on the list who does > not have problems due to sitting in a chair too long, staring at a > computer screen too long, or manipulating the mouse too much... etc., etc. > Alas all the ailments that we did not even dream of just a decade or so > before. Paul D. Buell > > PS: Likewise, I could not help but note in going to my C++ course last > night for the first time what a decrepit bunch programmers are too. Maybe > we should start a thread on what we decrepit lot do to stay in shape. > Anyone? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 00:21:03 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Martha Osgood Subject: Re: Indexing Proposal In-Reply-To: <199706251238.FAA19876@darkwing.uoregon.edu> Hi Diane I've been thinking hard about your index advertising idea in the UU World. Would this be in the classified section? Or would it be a business card size display ad? Do you have a "brochure" or a web page we could use as a response to inquiries? Have you read the other ads - some are a little far out --- Are the demographics worth the cost - small though it would be by sharing it. I'll bet Neva is a member of ASI. Let's keep talking. On another topic - MAM, I remember when you mentioned the idea months ago on Index-L. I've also been playing around with it but can't get really started because I can't price my "cost per entry". I tried to figure the bill for the three indexes I've done in several ways, but the rates vary WILDLY as well as widely...too much to be able to figure out what I would charge, for example, per entry. I used to own a commercial janitorial service (with 10 full time evening employees) and tried to figure out some standard way of charging (square feet, # of bathrooms/# of rooms or desks/etc) instead of what it "felt" like (how picky is the manager, how pleasant/close to another account is the location, what extra/unusual jobs do they want/how much time will it take to bring the account up to par and to keep it up to par/how much did they try to work with their previous janitor/etc). I was never satisfied with the results and always went with what it "felt" like. But I never averaged the different ways of billing either... Are you willing to share more of your method? Item #3. BILL MOYERS CALLED ME TODAY!! Yes, THAT Bill Moyers!! My third, and most magnificent, index was done, on speculation, for his book "Genesis, a Living Conversation." If he was going to put out another edition of that book (it has no index), I wanted my index in it. And I heard that there was going to be a Discussion Guide, and the index could go in there, as well. Moyers said that he loved the index, that he had never even thought of having an index in his books, that the book would probably not be reprinted, and that he would call me for his next book's index! (Sure, we'll count those chickens when they hatch, of course) Yahoo!!! How about THEM apples!! ****************************************************** Martha Osgood osgood@darkwing.uoregon.edu Back Words Indexing 541-484-1180 Eugene, OR ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 09:56:01 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Staying in Shape I try to walk two miles each day, usually in the morning, at a rate of about 4 mph. Evenings I use handweights to work on upper body strength. = During the day I am too fidgety to stay glued to the computer for long an= d take frequent breaks, most of which involve walking up the stairs from my= basement office. = I have nothing but admiration for Deborah Stewart >>building a house and clearing 35 acres for a farm<<. Question, though. She said >>No rest fo= r the wicked!<< Has anyone else heard it stated this way? "No rest for th= e weary, and the wicked don't need it." :) Wearily, Craig Brown The Last Word ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:24:06 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Elaine R. Firestone" Subject: Re: Trademark information In-Reply-To: <199706260430.AAA06551@calval.gsfc.nasa.gov> Doug writes: >I would especially like to see a listing of common trademarks, such as Coca >Cola (does it have a dash? are all the letters capitalized? you know what I >mean?), because trademarks don't usually change, and they appear frequently >in the fiction that my wife edits. I remember many last-minute "shopping" >trips to find the definitive spelling, punctuation, and/or capitalization >of some common product that we all have heard of but cannot _accurately_ >remember. For getting information on trademarks, contact the International Trademark Assoc. 1133 Ave. of the Americas New York, NY 10036-6710 Their hot line number, 1-212-768-9886, is available weekdays from 2--5 PM Eastern Time. They have an answering machine on the rest of the time and will call you back with answers to your queries. You can also fax them your questions at 1-212-768-7796. I've personally used these folks any number of times and they're _very_ helpful. Hope this helps. elaine Elaine R. Firestone, ELS elaine@calval.gsfc.nasa.gov elaine@seawifs.gsfc.nasa.gov ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:26:45 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Elaine R. Firestone" Subject: QUERIES: Name registration AND Who's Who Books Two questions for y'all today (boy, I'm being prolific today, ain't I? ). 1. Can anyone (of the US Index-L) tell me what's involved with registering the name of a company? Is it a national thing, state, county? I know a lot of you must have done this, so, um, any info? 2. What's the deal with all these Who's Who books out on the market? I've been bombarded the past few years with various ones, some say something like, "from Marquis Who's Who, the original publisher" or something like that. Yesterday, in the mail, I got another one for Who's Who in Media and Communication. This will be the first year this one will be published. What's the deal on this y'all? Is this a real honor? I know they actually publish a book, which they try to get you to buy at some enormous amount of money. Any ideas? Thoughts? Insight? TIA. elaine Elaine R. Firestone, ELS elaine@calval.gsfc.nasa.gov elaine@seawifs.gsfc.nasa.gov ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:23:05 -0300 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sheau-Hwang Chang Subject: Re: What backup software do you use? I am seeking to buy a writable optical system for storing one of our paper-cliping collection. Can anyone out there give me some information on this kind of setup? What components are involved in this system? Where and how much to buy this kind of system? Thanks in advance. At 09:37 PM 6/25/97 -0400, you wrote: >Hi, > We backup our work on rewritable optical disks. One disk holds about 650 >MB and the access is very fast. I just copy the work using the file manager >whenever I think I've done more than I'd care to repeat. I haven't used any >specialized software but I'm glad to hear more about the possibilities. > > Sharon > > ____________________________________ Sheau-Hwang Chang Associate Librarian Clement C. Maxwell Library Bridgewater State College Bridgewater, MA 02325 Phone: (508) 697-1766 Fax: (508) 697-1349 E-Mail: schang@umassd.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 08:16:02 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Free Web-based MEDLINE access As a medical indexer, when I'm stuck for terms for a particular subject (especially for journal articles or for terms I can't find in my office reference collection), I often do a Medline search to see how NLM indexes the concept. The following should be of interest to any medical indexer in a similar predicament. Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, WA. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- PRESS RELEASE EMBARGOED UNTIL: THURSDAY, JUNE 26, 1997 CONTACT: BOB MEHNERT/KATHY GARDNER (301) 496-6308 VICE PRESIDENT GORE TO LAUNCH FREE ACCESS TO WORLD'S LARGEST SOURCE OF PUBLISHED MEDICAL INFORMATION ON WORLD WIDE WEB Consumers and Health Professionals Worldwide to Have Fingertip Access to Cutting-Edge Research (Bethesda, MD -- June 26, 1997) -- The National Library of Medicine, a part of the National Institutes of Health, will today launch a new service to provide all Americans free access to MEDLINE -- the world's most extensive collection of published medical information -- over the World Wide Web. Prior to this announcement, users have had to register and pay to search MEDLINE and other NLM databases. This free service will be demonstrated by Vice President Albert Gore at a press briefing to be hosted by Senator Tom Harkin (D-IA) on Thursday, June 26, 1997 at 10:30 a.m. in Room 192 of the Dirksen Senate Office Building, United States Senate. In announcing the new free service, Health and Human Services Secretary Donna Shalala said, "American citizens now have at their fingertips both the scientific information gathered by the National Library of Medicine, as represented in MEDLINE, and the extensive consumer health information in healthfinderTM, the service for the public that we announced in April. We are committed to using the new technology, including the World Wide Web and the Internet, to provide health information to the public." "The National Library of Medicine's debut of free Web-based searching could not be more timely," said NLM Director Donald A.B. Lindberg, M.D. "The health care delivery landscape is changing. Citizens are increasingly turning to the Web as a source of information to improve their daily lives, including their health. So, it is vital that they, and the health professionals who serve them, have access to the most current and credible medical information." "Medical breakthroughs are happening so rapidly that I believe health care professionals and consumers alike should be able to tap into the most recent medical information," added pioneering heart surgeon Michael E. DeBakey, M.D., chair of NLM's Board of Regents. "Such information is often the critical link in reaching the correct diagnosis, resulting in lives saved, unnecessary treatment avoided, and hospitalization reduced. Even with all our modern advances in health care, I still consider good information to be the best medicine." Dr. DeBakey emphasized this same point this past spring in testimony before a Capitol Hill appropriations subcommittee. Harold Varmus, M.D., Director of the National Institutes of Health, applauded free access and observed it would have the additional benefit of improving the nation's scientific literacy. "The press briefing will demonstrate how the public, including high school and college science classes, will be able to search through MEDLINE and the Human Gene Map, another one of NLM's Web-based databases, and learn about inherited diseases that are located on our chromosomes -- in terms that the public can understand. No longer will the public be left in the dark as this fascinating and historic human genome research process unfolds." "The medical library community is pleased that this vast treasure trove of medical knowledge will be opened up to the general public," said Rachael K. Anderson, President of the Medical Library Association. "Patients and their families are regularly turning to health sciences librarians to find reliable health information. Free MEDLINE means that we can now provide consumers with better access to the quality information they need, and librarians can help them to tap into the full power of this authoritative source." To demonstrate the value this new service will have for consumers and health professionals, the press briefing will bring together a sampling of Americans whose stories are compelling examples of how access to MEDLINE and other sources of medical information from the Library positively touched their lives. Among those who will provide written or oral statements are: o A Pennsylvania book editor who went online to learn about non-Hodgkin's lymphoma and to find a clinical trial for her daughter, a University of Iowa student, who was diagnosed with the disease; o A Maryland pharmacist who had six miscarriages before she consulted MEDLINE, found a treatment, and carried a baby successfully to term; o A Connecticut librarian who searched MEDLINE for a doctor who was concerned about hospitals performing mastectomies on an out-patient basis for insurance purposes. Her search resulted in a reversal of such insurance policies; o A New York police officer who searched MEDLINE to recover important information for three relatives with cancer -- his wife, father-in-law, and aunt. He now trains other officers in the use of MEDLINE; o A Virginia couple whose 6-month search of medical literature resulted in treatment for their son's rare inherited disease -- a search that became immortalized in the movie "Lorenzo's Oil"; o A District of Columbia director of an AIDS advocacy group that uses AIDSLINE, an NLM database that is already free to the public. o Other individuals, from throughout the United States, will be available for comment by contacting the NLM. The web address for the National Library of Medicine is: http://www.nlm.nih.gov. On June 26, this site will display free MEDLINE. Press will also be invited to view a demonstration of "PubMed" -- a new free NLM online service that will allow the public to establish direct web links between MEDLINE abstracts and the publishers of the full-text articles. This new service is the result of a collaboration between the NLM and major science publishers such as the New England Journal of Medicine, Science, Journal of Biological Chemistry, and The Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. # # # # ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:18:30 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Cast Subject: Re[2]: Trademark information Thanks, Elaine. The url for International Trademark Assoc list of trademarks is: http://plaza.interport.net/inta/tmchklst.htm#TMC ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Trademark information Author: "Elaine R. Firestone" at unixlink Date: 6/26/97 10:24 AM Doug writes: >I would especially like to see a listing of common trademarks, such as Coca >Cola (does it have a dash? are all the letters capitalized? you know what I >mean?), because trademarks don't usually change, and they appear frequently >in the fiction that my wife edits. I remember many last-minute "shopping" >trips to find the definitive spelling, punctuation, and/or capitalization >of some common product that we all have heard of but cannot _accurately_ >remember. For getting information on trademarks, contact the International Trademark Assoc. 1133 Ave. of the Americas New York, NY 10036-6710 Their hot line number, 1-212-768-9886, is available weekdays from 2--5 PM Eastern Time. They have an answering machine on the rest of the time and will call you back with answers to your queries. You can also fax them your questions at 1-212-768-7796. I've personally used these folks any number of times and they're _very_ helpful. Hope this helps. elaine Elaine R. Firestone, ELS elaine@calval.gsfc.nasa.gov elaine@seawifs.gsfc.nasa.gov ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:45:54 -0500 Reply-To: davidaus@indiana.edu Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: david robert austen Subject: Re: What backup software do you use? Sheau-Hwang Chang. Don't forget, the Ditto tape drive ($99) will probably backup your entire hard drive, but it is something to do over dinner or over night. David wrote: > > I am seeking to buy a writable optical system for storing one > of our paper-cliping collection. Can anyone out there give me > some information on this kind of setup? What components > are involved in this system? Where and how much to buy > this kind of system? Thanks in advance. > > At 09:37 PM 6/25/97 -0400, you wrote: > >Hi, > > We backup our work on rewritable optical disks. One disk holds about 650 > >MB and the access is very fast. I just copy the work using the file manager > >whenever I think I've done more than I'd care to repeat. I haven't used any > >specialized software but I'm glad to hear more about the possibilities. > > > > Sharon > > > > > ____________________________________ > > Sheau-Hwang Chang > > Associate Librarian > Clement C. Maxwell Library > Bridgewater State College > Bridgewater, MA 02325 > Phone: (508) 697-1766 > Fax: (508) 697-1349 > E-Mail: schang@umassd.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 09:51:16 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Noeline Bridge Subject: Staying in shape I exercise for 30 minutes 3-5 times a week to a t.v. program, Everyday Workout. I've been doing this for over 3 years, with 2 years on and off when a project took me to an office almost every day (no excuse, of course). It's a mostly slow toning and workout for the whole body (over several days), beginning with slow movement and bends and stretches, then fast movement, followed by almost-static holds--muscle building via isometrics, I would say, no weights--and more bending and stretching to cool down. As I hate gyms, sports, and sweating a lot, it suits me fine. In fact, this deceptively gentle stuff has literally reshaped my previously degenerating form and restored much of the flexibility I had as a much younger woman. Otherwise I garden for an hour every day during the summer and walk the dog all year. Our dog isn't the type with endless stamina; 15-20 minutes is plenty for him, with some sprints (he sprints, I don't). Noeline H. Bridge nbridge@planet.eon.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:54:58 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Suzanne Cole Subject: Re: QUERIES: Name registration AND Who's Who Books On 6/26/97 10:26 AM, Elaine R. Firestone said: >Two questions for y'all today (boy, I'm being prolific today, ain't I? ). > >1. Can anyone (of the US Index-L) tell me what's involved with registering >the name of a company? Is it a national thing, state, county? I know a lot >of you must have done this, so, um, any info? Elaine, Registering a fictitous name is done by each state. I just did this for my company in Pennsylvania. There's a state office called the "Corporation Bureau" in the "Department of State." It costs $57 for them to check to see if your name is used by any other company in the state. (I imagine the processes for other state's are similar.) That's just for the simple types of companies (like sole proprietors). If you want to incorporate, it's more complicated and, I believe, involved the IRS. Good luck! I'm just starting out as a freelancer, too. Suzanne Cole ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ C. Suzanne Cole, MA, MS Emerac Information Services PO Box 572 Doylestown, PA 18901 215-230-5552 fax: 215-489-5435 suzanne@emerac.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 19:52:39 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Loraine F. Sweetland" Subject: New to List--need Help Hi, I'm new to your list and I need some help. I'm hoping someone of you will be kind enough to give me some information. I have been in library work for 20 years--technical college, middle school, medical library and special library. I have worked on indexing--worked last summer for a company trying to get a contract with NLM for Index Medicus but they did not get the contract. Now I am talking with a company who is working with Elsevier Publishing in the Netherlands to do Indexing for Excerpta Medica. The work would be contract services at 1.80 per article indexed. The company is saying that one should be able to do 12-15 articles per hour after one is trained. Does this sound like a fair deal and is it possible?? I don't have a chemical, drug, pharaceutical background and I have a great deal to learn. I am self-employed so I have to be careful what I get into. I would appreciate any input from anyone who is in this field. Are there any job rate guidelines available for indexers?? I hope some of you will be kind enought to respond. Thanks in advance. Loraine F. Sweetland ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 20:09:31 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: WordenDex@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Indexing Proposal Martha, WONDERFUL news about Moyers' book/index. Great going!! His topic certainly fits the UUWOrld audience. Wish I'd had similar results for my "spec" book *Seasons of the Witch.* Yes, the UUWorld's "Classifieds," and I agree some of the ads are wierd. Got your attention, though, eh? I think display ads cost too much for our kind of service so my estimate was based on plain text. Have no web page yet, but is that a disadvantage when trying to reach UUWorld recipients? Worked up a brochure as a right-sizing exercise and bought paper to run it on, but always thought it lacked pizzazz so never used it as such. Have used the ideas in promo letters to potential clients. At best the UUWorld reaches 100,000 (?) households, many of which harbor book-oriented people who "always thought they'd write about...." If the ad prompted even 1% response, cost per potential client would be 13 cents. I spent 18 cents each just for the paperstock on which to print a brochure! Neva, who? Neva Smith, a UU in Texas? If so, though I've never met her, I've long been impressed with her Index-L contributions. Adding a mid-South area code would be cool; know any UU indexer on the mid-Atlantic coast? Cost/entry ranges from 35-75 cents in my book, as does cost/locator. The client's idea of what the index is actually worth, from his own pocket, and the actual number of each item determine how I slide each rate up or down. I want to come close to the client's bottom line even while I set both the hour ($20-25) and page rates ($3.50-6) within reason, depending on my familiarity with the book's subject/s. The slides don't bother me. They educate the client on what all goes into producing a final index, while the actual rate multiplied by the number of items tempers the billed amount. I can see I'm not gouging the client and really giving a bargain, relative to the highest possible billed factor. Client satisfaction comes first, but I must be satisfied that I am being paid fairly. The Feel Factor (F2), how I feel about the amount billed, is very important, and is probably not far from your 'felt right' billing for janitorial services. However, F2 in MAM is in my head, not on paper. What's on paper shows me I'm not just pulling it out of thin air. I'm off the LGSA on Sat. 6/2. Have had a devil of a time signing on to AOL today. Tried three times for 10 minutes each, beginning this a.m., then just after noon, and now about 7:45 p.m. If you post again tomorrow (Fri) and I don't respond, I'll get it when I return in a week. Good to hear from you -- all topics! Hope there's more coming, Diane ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 20:10:58 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: WordenDex@AOL.COM Subject: Re: QUERIES: Name registration AND Who's Who Books In Michigan, it's a county thing. Drop by your county clerk's office, fill out a simple form, pay $10. That's all. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:38:32 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Horowitz Subject: Re: New to List--need Help In-Reply-To: <199706262350.QAA17473@mail5.netcom.com> From my experience working in medicine, nursing and allied health 12-15 articles per hour is not possible unless the level of indexing is not in depth and the articles are not overally technical. These last 2 requirements are not representative of Excerpta medica. I have been doing database indexing for 7 years and have a strong background in science and would find 6-7 articles of regular medical type medical articles about the max I could produce. I may hit 10 or 11 hour only for very non technical, short articles. Roberta Horowitz On Thu, 26 Jun 1997, Loraine F. Sweetland wrote: > Hi, I'm new to your list and I need some help. I'm hoping someone of you > will be kind enough to give me some information. > > I have been in library work for 20 years--technical college, middle > school, medical library and special library. I have worked on > indexing--worked last summer for a company trying to get a contract with > NLM for Index Medicus but they did not get the contract. Now I am talking > with a company who is working with Elsevier Publishing in the Netherlands > to do Indexing for Excerpta Medica. > > The work would be contract services at 1.80 per article indexed. The > company is saying that one should be able to do 12-15 articles per hour > after one is trained. Does this sound like a fair deal and is it > possible?? I don't have a chemical, drug, pharaceutical background and I > have a great deal to learn. I am self-employed so I have to be careful > what I get into. I would appreciate any input from anyone who is in this > field. Are there any job rate guidelines available for indexers?? > > I hope some of you will be kind enought to respond. > > Thanks in advance. > > Loraine F. Sweetland > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 19:26:33 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: macallen@POP.TIAC.NET Subject: Staying in Shape What a great lead in to making a push for my new sig: the sports/fitness/travel sig. If anyone is interested, I hope you'll consider joining this new sig. If interested, please let me know. A notice will be included in the next issue of KEYWORDS to catch those not on index-l. If you are interested in indexing a variety of materials relating to either sports, fitness or travel, then you should think about joining this new sig. I try to walk 4-6 times a week, depending on the local weather & my schedule. I also lead AMC weekends in the New England area that involve hikes of 2-5 miles per day (wimpy by some AMC standards but enough for me!). Snowshoeing is my favorite winter sport (and a great aerobic exercise by the way!) I don't know how many of you from this list are on copyedit-l, but there was a great thread on cel early this week about computer-related injuries. Several cel members went into lengthy descriptions of how they work (i.e., where they place their keyboard, etc.) as well as exercises that they do to relieve the tension. Someone on cel made the comment that we are using muscles to type and write and read. The thought was that we should protect those same muscles as we do the rest of our bodies. Please consider joining the new sports/fitness/travel sig. Stay healthy & happy! Willa MacAllen MacAllen's Information Services Librarian/Technical Writer Boston macallen@tiac.net (Getting ready for a day trip to Star Island in Portsmouth, NH on Sunday. Looking forward to the boat ride and time on the Island {once everyone arrives on time and tickets are bought!]) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 11:07:29 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandra Henderson Subject: Re: New to List--need Help I manage a database which contains MEDLINE-lookalike indexed articles - we index non-MEDLINE Australian journals and conferences, and assign MeSH headings and follow NLM's indexing policies. We pay our contract indexers at a rate which assumes they will normally index 4 items per hour. Now there are journals which can be indexed at a much faster rate than this, but there are also some pretty complex biochemical or biophysical type articles where it can be very slow going. We would not get the level of competence we desire if we were requiring an indexing rate of 12-15 articles per hour - it is simply not possible to do an adequate job over a range of material at that speed in my opinion. I might add that if 4 items per hour seems very slow we also require a short abstract to be written for items that don't have an abstract (but it's often just a case of marking a sentence or two at start or end of article which sums things up). Our rate of pay is per item ($6.21 per item), so at 4 per hour it is equivalent to the pay rate for an experienced librarian inhouse doing indexing. I suspect our present indexer is doing a bit better than 4 per hour, as he came into the position (which is a home-based contract one) with good knowledge of the drug field + biological sciences degree + a lot of MEDLINE search experience, and he's now been working with us for a number of years. Hope this helps! Sandra Henderson Manager National Bibliographic Publications National Library of Australia > > >On Thu, 26 Jun 1997, Loraine F. Sweetland wrote: > >> Hi, I'm new to your list and I need some help. I'm hoping someone of you >> will be kind enough to give me some information. >> >> I have been in library work for 20 years--technical college, middle >> school, medical library and special library. I have worked on >> indexing--worked last summer for a company trying to get a contract with >> NLM for Index Medicus but they did not get the contract. Now I am talking >> with a company who is working with Elsevier Publishing in the Netherlands >> to do Indexing for Excerpta Medica. >> >> The work would be contract services at 1.80 per article indexed. The >> company is saying that one should be able to do 12-15 articles per hour >> after one is trained. Does this sound like a fair deal and is it >> possible?? I don't have a chemical, drug, pharaceutical background and I >> have a great deal to learn. I am self-employed so I have to be careful >> what I get into. I would appreciate any input from anyone who is in this >> field. Are there any job rate guidelines available for indexers?? >> >> I hope some of you will be kind enought to respond. >> >> Thanks in advance. >> >> Loraine F. Sweetland >> > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 23:07:50 -0700 Reply-To: greenhou@erols.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "S. Greenhouse" Subject: Database indexing speed (was: New to List--need Help) Loraine F. Sweetland wonders: > The company is saying that one should be able to do 12-15 articles > per hour after one is trained. Does this sound like a fair deal and > is it possible?? Yes, absolutely. You need to find out: 1) How much of the article do you index from? 2) How large is the thesaurus? 3) How restrictive are the rules? 4) How many entry points per article and can they be qualified? 5) Are you indexing single terms or constructing strings of terms to describe the article? 6) How long-term is the work? What kind of probation are they offering? Training? I work for two different databases. One is for a secondary publisher who produces abstract journals. When I started, I indexed 7 articles per hour, now I can index 20-30. Put your eyeballs back in your head and let me continue. I only see the first page of the article, and must index from the *title and the abstract only*. If I am very lucky, I may get a paragraph containing the statement of purpose (why the heck we did this study). I have been indexing for this company for seven years; I know my topics very well; and I know much of the vocabulary. I only index main entry points, and write no strings of terms. So - limited amount of the article to read, small thesaurus with very few term usage restrictions, very high familiarity with the subject and available vocabulary, and your indexing rate zooms. Now the bad news. The other is a MeSH database for NLM, where the expected production rate is 4/hour, when you *read the whole article*, from abstract to conclusions. I have main headings to assign, along with qualifiers. For me, reading the article takes maybe five minutes. I'm not reading it as a researcher, but as an indexer. For me, the slowest part is picking the main entry points, looking each one up in the annotated MeSH, verifying there are no more specific terms in the MeSH tree structure, and then idenifying the allowed qualifiers. Then I have to indicate which entry point(s) (main heading or qualifier) may be most important. This takes anywhere from 5 to 15 minutes per article (and I've been doing MeSH indexing for a year). I may go onto one of the Internet MEDLINE services to check out how someone else handled a particularly dicey problem. I have to look up (in several different huge books) _every_ _single_ _term_. There is no way for me to memorize the vocabulary, and I only work on one topic! Each main heading has a paragraph describing limitations on usage. So does each qualifier, and not every qualifier goes with every main heading. There are at least 75 pounds of books to use to verify each and every term. Reading the whole article, strict rules on vocabulary usage, verification of each and every term and its odd restrictions, and your indexing rate plummets. The rate they quote ($1.80 per article) is very reasonable for the first kind of indexing and absurd for the second. Feel free to email me with questions or for more specific information. Shelley Greenhouse greenhou@erols.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 09:07:25 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sanindex@AOL.COM Subject: Re: QUERIES: Name registration AND Who's Who Books As to the Who's Who Books--my husband was once the marketing director of Marquis Who's Who. These are published and you don't have to buy. There are a lot of look a-like publications and I don't know about them. When my husband worked there, I could not be listed other than as a test name. I generally throw them in the round filing cabinet that sits beside my desk. Sandi Schroeder, Schroeder Indexing Services ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 09:33:42 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Loraine F. Sweetland" Subject: THANKS I can see I have joined the right e-mail group. I can't thank each of you individually but a big Thank-You to all of you who responded to my request for help. I can see I will learn much. I'm sure some of you are librarians, also, and the wish to help comes with that field also. Thank you again, and have a GOOD DAY! Loraine F. Sweetland ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 09:53:03 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Emily Adelsohn Subject: Re: Vision/glasses, etc. My vision correction went from -9 to -1 diopters thanks to a kind of laser surgery called Lasik. It is a very quick and virtually pain-free procedure, taking no more than 15 minutes per eye. I can't imagine dealing with those thick glasses and all that eyestrain any more. I opted to have less than perfect correction so that I would not lose my close up vision, as 90% of my life is writing and reading. If you want more information on this subject, I recommend a book entitled Beyond Glasses by Franette Armstrong. Or ask me. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 10:37:10 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Maro Riofrancos Subject: Job openings JOB OPENINGS: 1. Indexing Apprentice. Opportunity: To learn indexing in a long-established indexing services company. We index a wide variety of books, with an emphasis on computer books, cookbooks, textbooks, and travel books. Our indexing methods are innovative and high-tech: we index exclusively onscreen (look, ma, no paper!). The position would be in-house during the training period, with the possibility of working independently afterward. Requirements: Resident of New York City or environs. Quick-witted and fast-talking. Crack typist. Excellent speller. Friendly with computers. Ability to wield a screwdriver. Winning record in one or more of the following: Scrabble, Sunday NY Times puzzle, Scattergories. Pay: negotiable, higher than average. 2. Indexer. To work primarily on computer books. Must be open to learning a new method of indexing: onscreen. Position could be in-house, outside, or a combination. Requirements: Same as above, plus: Highly computer-savvy, especially in the Windows 95 platform. A smattering or more of a programming language. Have published indexes available. Pay: negotiable, higher than average. Anyone interested in either of these positions should contact me either by e-mail or phone. Maro Riofrancos Riofrancos & Co. Indexes 290 Riverside Drive, 9A New York, NY 10025 Voice: 212.864.2121 Fax: 212.222.2921 Email: riomaro@riofrancos.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 09:37:09 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Herr Hallinger Organization: Herr's Indexing Service Subject: Staying in shape Spending time outside and getting exercise are very important to me, to help balance out the long hours at my desk and computer. Running is my favorite exercise, although I also enjoy riding my bicycles (one for on the road and one for the trails), swimming, and snowshoeing in the winter. I also garden, fix the fence in my pastures, carry bales of hay, stack wood, shovel snow, or whatever the seasonal chores happen to be. Yesterday morning I took an unplanned 2 hour walk looking for my cows that were missing in action! I generally get up around 5:30 a.m., and try to be at my desk by 9:00 a.m. or 10:00 a.m. at the latest, and work until around 6:00 p.m. on most days. I really like getting my exercise in first thing in the day, as it helps me feel better all day long. Linda Hallinger ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 08:50:07 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Robert Kelley Subject: CANCELLING SUBSCRIPTION Hi. I am going to be away from easy access to e-mail for a couple of weeks and don't want my messages to pile up. How do I cancel my subscription to Index-L? Please respond. Thanks. Bob Kelley --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 08:30:12 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Jim Wilson Subject: Newbie, "Q" & Kindex users? Hello again Indexers; May I first proclaim blatently that I recently completed Susan Holbert's Indexing Workshop via video tapes. Prior to enrolling, I was a lurker here for several months, soaking up all the wisdom I se daily. Susan's workshop is a wonderful way to get initial exposure to Indexing. As a beginner, I am now much more confident that "I too can do it!". Her program is well worth the small investment. Now for my NEWBIE question: I located a DOS based indexing program called "KINDEX", WHICH CLAIMS TO BE CREATED TO THE "BRITISH STANDARDS - BS 1749 & BS 53700". Are you using, or have you had any exposure to this product. It is a shareware program and its upper limits claim to be quite adequate at least for a small to medium project. I hope to get some feedback prior to investing lots of time into learning the software. As always, I thank you for the continual value your words of experience bring to "us newbies". Jim Wilson Jim Wilson, jimw@transport.com Remember, two wrongs don't make a right... but three lefts do! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 12:42:16 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: New to List--need Help At 05:38 PM 6/26/97 -0700, you wrote: >>From my experience working in medicine, nursing and allied health 12-15 >articles per hour is not possible unless the level of indexing is not >in depth and the articles are not overally technical. And even if it were possible, 15 articles per hour at $1.80 is only $27/hr. Not stellar wages for a freelancer. Dick Evans ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 20:27:06 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@AOL.COM Subject: Fwd: [H-BRIDGE] Press Release: Free NLM Web-based MEDLINE Hi everyone, I'm sorry to post such a lengthy, slightly off-topic (for Index-L) message from another list I'm on (which was forwarded from yet other lists). But I think that some medical indexers may find it very useful to know that NLM will be putting MESH online (hopefully better than that gopher "browse-only" version that now exists). Also, with recent references here to us decrepit indexers , we're direly in need of being able to access medical information via MEDLINE searches. ;-D Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing --------------------- Forwarded message: From: pallen@TCCCOM.NET (Peg Allen) Sender: HEALTH-BRIDGE@ACOR.ORG (HEALTH-BRIDGE: Partnerships for Quality Online Health Information Resources) Reply-to: HEALTH-BRIDGE@ACOR.ORG (HEALTH-BRIDGE: Partnerships for Quality Online Health Information Resources) To: HEALTH-BRIDGE@ACOR.ORG Date: 97-06-27 16:42:31 EDT Official National Library of Medicine (NLM) press release regarding free MEDLINE access - note that Internet Grateful Med includes additional databases. Also, note stories of consumer use of MEDLINE. Peg >Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:38:33 -0400 >Reply-To: Medical Libraries Discussion List > >Sender: Medical Libraries Discussion List > >From: Margaret Henderson >Subject: Press Release: Free NLM Web-based MEDLINE >To: MEDLIB-L@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >X-Status: > >Here are the official memos about free MEDLINE from the NLM > > >DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES >Public Health Service >National Institutes of Health >National Library of Medicine >Bethesda, Maryland 20894 > > Memorandum > >To: Members of the NN/LM >From: Director, NLM >Subject: Free MEDLINE >Date: June 24, 1997 > >On June 26, 1997, the National Library of Medicine will hold a press >conference on Capitol Hill, Washington, D.C. to announce free Web-based >MEDLINE accessible through PubMed and Internet Grateful Med. Attached is >the Press Release for the press conference which you are encouraged to share >with your users and other colleagues on June 26th. > >PubMed is an experimental search system that provides free access to MEDLINE >in a single search. The search features include: > Sets of related articles pre-computed for each article in MEDLINE; > Choice of search interfaces from simple keywords to advanced Boolean >expressions; > Searching by MeSH index terms ( main topics and subheadings) and field >restrictions; > Links to publishers' Web sites for full text-journals. Initially 24 >journals are available, some by subscription only; > Clinical query form with search filters for diagnosis, therapy and >prognosis; > Links to molecular biology database of DNA/protein sequences and 3-D >structure data. > >Internet Grateful Med provides free access to MEDLINE, as well as AIDSLINE >and HealthSTAR. The features include: > Use of the full range of Medical Subject Headings (MeSH) and the UMLS >Metathesaurus; > Ability to limit searches by language, publication type, age groups, >etc., using pull down menus; > Loansome Doc document delivery service. > >Currently, searching Internet Grateful Med requires a valid User ID and >password; however, users will not be billed. A new version to be released >in July will include free access to several additional databases (AIDSDRUGS, >AIDSTRIALS, DIRLINE, HISTLINE, HSRPROJ, OLDMEDLINE and SDILINE) and will no >longer require a User ID. > >Free MEDLINE is limited to Web-based searching via the Internet because of >great savings to NLM in telecommunications and software costs. Thus, access >to all NLM non-Web-based systems will continue to be billed ( i.e., direct >command language searching of ELHILL; TOXNET; PDQ; and the DOS, Macintosh >and Windows versions of Grateful Med whether access is by direct dial, >FTS2000, or the Internet). > >The Press Release and hot links to IGM and PubMed will be available on the >NLM home page (http://www.nlm.nih.gov) immediately following the press >conference. Please direct current and new users to the NLM Web home page to >search free MEDLINE and to obtain updated and additional information about >NLM databases and information services. > >Each member of the National Network of Libraries of Medicine plays a vital >role in making health information accessible throughout the country. The >Library's announcement of free MEDLINE is only one step toward bringing >quality health information to those Americans who search the Web. Your >efforts to inform users about available information resources, to educate >them about the effective use of the various search engines, and to assist >them in obtaining copies of the articles containing the information they >seek, are critical to ensuring that every citizen has access to the best and >most up-to-date health information. We at NLM look forward to working with >you to provide the very best and most useful information products and services. > > /Signature/ > > Donald >A.B. Lindberg, M.D. > >Attachment > > >PRESS RELEASE >EMBARGOED UNTIL: CONTACT: BOB MEHNERT/ >THURSDAY, JUNE 26, 1997 KATHY GARDNER (301) >496-6308 > >VICE PRESIDENT GORE TO LAUNCH FREE ACCESS TO WORLD'S LARGEST SOURCE >OF PUBLISHED MEDICAL INFORMATION ON WORLD WIDE WEB >Consumers and Health Professionals Worldwide to Have Fingertip Access to >Cutting-Edge Research > >(Bethesda, MD -- June 26, 1997) -- The National Library of Medicine, a part >of the National Institutes of Health, will today launch a new service to >rovide all Americans free access to MEDLINE -- the world's most extensive >collection of published medical information -- over the World Wide Web. >Prior to his announcement, users have had to register and pay to search >MEDLINE and other NLM databases. This free service will be demonstrated by >Vice President >Albert Gore at a press briefing to be hosted by Senator Tom Harkin (D-IA) on >Thursday, June 26, 1997 at 10:30 a.m. in Room 192 of the Dirksen Senate >Office Building, United States Senate. > > In announcing the new free service, Health and Human Services >Secretary Donna Shalala said, "American citizens now have at their >fingertips both the scientific information gathered by the National Library >of Medicine, as represented in MEDLINE, and the extensive consumer health >information in healthfinderTM, the service for the public that we announced >in April. We are committed to using the new technology, including the World >Wide Web and >the Internet, to provide health information to the public." > > > "The National Library of Medicine's debut of free Web-based >searching could not be more timely," said NLM Director Donald A.B. >Lindberg, M.D. "The health care delivery landscape is changing. Citizens >are increasingly turning to the Web as a source of information to improve >their daily lives, including their health. So, it is vital that they, and >the health professionals who serve them, have access to the most current and >credible medical information." > > "Medical breakthroughs are happening so rapidly that I believe >health care professionals and consumers alike should be able to tap into the >most recent medical information," added pioneering heart surgeon Michael E. >DeBakey, M.D., chair of NLM's Board of Regents. "Such information is often >the critical link in reaching the correct diagnosis, resulting in lives >saved, unnecessary treatment avoided, and hospitalization reduced. Even >with all our modern advances in health care, I still consider good >information to be the best medicine." Dr. DeBakey emphasized this same point >this past spring in testimony before a Capitol Hill appropriations subcommittee. > > Harold Varmus, M.D., Director of the National Institutes of Health, >applauded free access and observed it would have the additional benefit of >proving the nation's scientific literacy. "The press briefing will >demonstrate how the public, including high school and college science >classes, will be able to search through MEDLINE and the Human Gene Map, >another one of NLM's Web-based databases, and learn about inherited diseases >that are located on our >chromosomes -- in terms that the public can understand. No longer will the >public be left in the dark as this fascinating and historic human genome >research process unfolds." > > "The medical library community is pleased that this vast treasure >trove of medical knowledge will be opened up to the general public," said >Rachel K. Anderson, President of the Medical Library Association. "Patients >and their families are regularly turning to health sciences librarians to >find reliable health information. Free MEDLINE means that we can now >provide consumers with better access to the quality information they need, >and librarians can help them to tap into the full power of this >authoritative source." > > To demonstrate the value this new service will have for consumers >and health professionals, the press briefing will bring together a sampling >of Americans whose stories are compelling examples of how access to MEDLINE >and other sources of medical information from the Library positively touched >their lives. Among those who will provide written or oral statements are: > > o A Pennsylvania book editor who went online to learn about >non-Hodgkin's lymphoma and to find a clinical trial for her daughter, a >University of Iowa student, who was diagnosed with the disease; > > o A Maryland pharmacist who had six miscarriages before she >consulted MEDLINE, found a treatment, and carried a baby successfully to term; > > o A Connecticut librarian who searched MEDLINE for a doctor >who was concerned about hospitals performing mastectomies on an out-patient >basis for insurance purposes. Her search resulted in a reversal of such >insurance policies; > > o A New York police officer who searched MEDLINE to recover >important information for three relatives with cancer -- his wife, >father-in-law, and aunt. He now trains other officers in the use of MEDLINE; > > o A Virginia couple whose 6-month search of medical >literature resulted in treatment for their son's rare inherited disease -- a >search that became immortalized in the movie "Lorenzo's Oil"; > > o A District of Columbia director of an AIDS advocacy group >that uses AIDSLINE, an NLM database that is already free to the public. > > o Other individuals, from throughout the United States, will >be available for comment by contacting the NLM. > > The web address for the National Library of Medicine is: >http://www.nlm.nih.gov. On June 26, this site will display free MEDLINE. >Press will also be invited to view a demonstration of "PubMed" -- a new free >NLM online service that will allow the public to establish direct web links >between MEDLINE abstracts and the publishers of the full-text articles. >This new service is the result of a collaboration between the NLM and major >science publishers such as the New England Journal of Medicine, Science, >Journal of Biological Chemistry, and The Proceedings of the National Academy >of Sciences. > ># # # # > > ******************************************** Margaret (Peg) Allen, MLS-AHIP Library/Information Consultant Resource Librarian Consultant for Cinahl Information Systems, Inc. Project Director, Northwoods HealthNet, Northern Wisconsin AHEC, Inc. PO Box 2, 308 Kann, Stratford, WI 54484-0002 (715)687-4976 or (715)687-2287 Fax:(715)687-4976 pallen@tcccom.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 05:23:37 +0000 Reply-To: lbindex@picard.omn.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lee Ellen Brower Organization: Brower Indexing Services Subject: Re: QUERIES: Name registration AND Who's Who Books Elaine R. Firestone wrote: > > Two questions for y'all today (boy, I'm being prolific today, ain't I? ). > > 1. Can anyone (of the US Index-L) tell me what's involved with registering > the name of a company? Is it a national thing, state, county? I know a lot > of you must have done this, so, um, any info? Elaine, In Colorado, businesses names that deviate from the personal name of the owner/operator are technically supposed to be registered with the Colorado Department of Revenue. It costs $6.00 initially, with no annual renewal fee if the business pays some sales taxes. A business must register with the county only if it buys real estate in the name of the business. After living in Wyoming for most of my life, I find Colorado to be over-regulated. Lee Brower Brower Indexing Services Loveland, Colorado ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 11:05:21 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Registering Business Name Elaine, The need to register your business name, and with what entity, seems to depend on the regulations in the state, county, and city you live in. Everybody seems to have a different situation. So the best you could do is to find out what the local regulations are in your area. If there is a Small Business Association in your municipality, they could steer you. Also SCORE people might be helpful. If not, check with each level of government agency. In my area, registration was unnecessary, since I don't sell product, so I don't collect sales tax -- until the point when I wanted a checking account with my business name on it. Then I had to show the bank notarized paper that the name was registered. Might be different for you. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 12:45:02 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Helen Schinske Subject: Re: Who's Who In a message dated 97-06-28 01:10:03 EDT, Sandi Schroeder wrote: >As to the Who's Who Books--my husband was once the marketing director of >Marquis Who's Who. These are published and you don't have to buy. There are a >lot of look a-like publications and I don't know about them. When my husband >worked there, I could not be listed other than as a test name. I generally >throw them in the round filing cabinet that sits beside my desk. I got one of these too. Read the fine print -- they don't say you will be listed, but that you MAY be chosen. And I didn't find anything that says they can't turn around and sell the information you send them to someone else (at least your name and address, now helpfully verified as being "a live one"). Almost worth sending in with a fake middle initial, just to see whether your junk mail changes ... (I knew someone once who had no middle name and signed up for magazines and so forth with a series of fake initials -- then could track all the mailing lists he'd been forwarded to by whether he was addressed as John A. Smith, John B. Smith, etc.) Helen Schinske HSchinske@aol.com