From: SMTP%"LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu" 25-NOV-1997 20:58:45.90 To: CIRJA02 CC: Subj: File: "INDEX-L LOG9710E" Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 11:31:45 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9710E" To: CIRJA02@GSVMS1.CC.GASOU.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 08:23:24 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: bslen@MCP.COM Subject: In-House Indexers Needed in Denver... I saw this on TECHWR-L and I thought some of you might be interested in it...please do not reply to me I just found and posted this..... ******************************************************** ************* NOTE: IHS needs in-house indexers. Please do not call them unless you live in the Denver area or are willing to relocate to the Denver area. ******************************************************** ************* IHS (URL - http://www.ihs.com) a leading information publisher headquartered in Colorado with operations throughout the world, has provided technical information to businesses worldwide for over 38 years. IHS currently has two openings, with a third opening up within the next few weeks. The two current openings require bilingual skills (German, French and/or Spanish), and all three positions require the ability to understand engineering related terminology. Indexing experience is a plus; however, they will consider candidates with relevant education and/or technical background. The salary range is approximately high $20s/year to low $30s/year with an *excellent* benefits package. Specific qualifications include: * 2 years of college, Bachelor's degree preferred * Work experience in technical/engineering, or library/information science fields * Ability to identify literature important to engineering customers * Computer systems knowledge and data entry skills required * Experience with indexing and/or thesaurus development a plus * Fluency in French, German and/or Spanish desired For consideration, please send an electronically scannable resume (use a standard font and no bold or italics) and salary history to: Mary Finley IHS, MS #B101-MF 15 Inverness Way East Englewood, CO 80112 If you prefer to fax your resume, the fax # is 303-397-2923. Or, if you prefer to e-mail your resume, send it to careers@ihs.com For more information, please contact Mary Finley ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 20:31:32 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: JOB OPENINGS: In-house Indexers Needed in Denver I am posting this for Information Handling Services (IHS). ********************************************************************* NOTE: IHS needs in-house indexers. Please do not call them unless you live in the Denver area or are willing to relocate to the Denver area. ********************************************************************* IHS (URL - http://www.ihs.com) a leading information publisher headquartered in Colorado with operations throughout the world, has provided technical information to businesses worldwide for over 38 years. IHS currently has two openings, with a third opening up within the next few weeks. The two current openings require bilingual skills (German, French and/or Spanish), and all three positions require the ability to understand engineering related terminology. Indexing experience is a plus; however, they will consider candidates with relevant education and/or technical background. The salary range is approximately high $20s/year to low $30s/year with an *excellent* benefits package. Specific qualifications include: * 2 years of college, Bachelor's degree preferred * Work experience in technical/engineering, or library/information science fields * Ability to identify literature important to engineering customers * Computer systems knowledge and data entry skills required * Experience with indexing and/or thesaurus development a plus * Fluency in French, German and/or Spanish desired For consideration, please send an electronically scannable resume (use a standard font and no bold or italics) and salary history to: Mary Finley IHS, MS #B101-MF 15 Inverness Way East Englewood, CO 80112 If you prefer to fax your resume, the fax # is 303-397-2923. Or, if you prefer to e-mail your resume, send it to careers@ihs.com For more information, please contact Mary Finley at 1-800-525-7052. *********************************************************************** Lori Lathrop ---------->INTERNET:76620.456@compuserve.com Lathrop Media Services, P.O. Box 3065, Idaho Springs, CO 80452 Office: 303-567-4447, ext. 28 / Fax: 303-567-9306 URL - http://idt.net/~lathro19 (note: that's a "nineteen" at the end) *********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 07:20:46 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kevin & Jennifer A. Broccoli" Subject: thanks for logo thoughts Thanks to all for all of your interesting ideas and comments on using humor in logos, such as the broccoli idea. I'm working on it already. Kevin A. Broccoli ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 08:32:29 +0000 Reply-To: mikerav@ix.netcom.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Ravnitzky Subject: FBI Files Website Index Pardon Me: I have spent about five years developing an index of FBI Files and have placed a selection of what I've found on a website. http://www.crunch.com/01secret/01secret.htm Your comments and suggestions are welcome. Michael Ravnitzky MikeRav@ix.netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 07:09:33 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sam Andrusko Subject: Re: Indexicon Hello, everyone, When I contacted Indexicon a few weeks back, I happened to save the email address of the man who answered my query and so just sent him another post and asked him whether his company had given up the ghost. Below is part of his reponse which I thought might be of interest. Sam Andrusko ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 16:22:49 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Indexicon Hello Sam, You are correct, with the new merger, crack management has decided to do away with the retail products so although they will still support them, they aren't selling them anymore ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 20:56:34 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: ROBJRICH@AOL.COM Subject: Apology to Lynn All - In a recent posting, in which I responded to John Sullivan's taking Index-L to task for controversy and bickering, I included a paragraph that was deeply distressing to Lynn Moncrief. I am profoundly sorry that something I said angered her, and apologize to her for my quite unintentional offense. I have a high regard for Lynn as a colleague and as a friend. I apologize, again, if anything I said, no matter how innocent and well-intended, caused her any distress. Bob Richardson ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 10:54:03 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dwight Walker Subject: Start training Rover . . . . . Here's an excellent use for your indexing skills - finding the needle in the haystack in the classifieds! News Ltd is an Australian newspaper conglomerate. >X-From_: siteadm@dingo.ni.com.au Wed Oct 29 08:39:36 1997 >Return-Path: >Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 08:37:09 +1100 (EST) >Reply-to: nselwyn@newscorp.com.au (Newsclassifieds) >From: nselwyn@newscorp.com.au (Newsclassifieds) >To: dwight@zip.com.au >Subject: Start training Rover . . . . . > >Better start training Rover to fetch the morning paper, 'cause you could >find yourself winning a free one-year newspaper subscription to a News Ltd >newspaper by entering a great new competition called "I Found It" on the >Newsclassifieds website. >If you've ever found anything on Newsclassifieds, from a beagle to a BMW - >now's the time to tell us >We're offering free one-year newspaper subscriptions* for the best success >story in each State. >The competition only runs for a limited time, so visit us at >http://www.newsclassifieds.com.au/ni/story/home.htm and enter quickly . . . >. . and might as well train Rover to fetch your slippers too > >Good luck >Nicole Selwyn >Marketing Manager >Newsclassifieds > > >* Depending on where you live, your prize could be a subscription to one the >following: >The Daily Telegraph, The Sunday Telegraph, The Australian, The Weekend >Australian, Herald Sun, >Herald Sun Sunday, The Courier Mail, Sunday Mail, The Advertiser, Sunday >Mail, The Australian, Sunday Times, Northern Territory News, The Sunday >Territorian. > > ---------------------------------------------------------- Dwight Walker, Sydney, Australia tel +61-2-91304206 (h) 0412-405727 (mobile) fax +61-2-97772058 WWWalker Web Development: http://www.wwwalker.com.au, Team VC http://www.vcaustralia.com Australian Society of Indexers: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi Sydney Linux Users Group: http://www.slug.org.au ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 15:48:18 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Re: sole proprietorship vs incorporation In reference to Pilar's question a while back about the advantages of incorporating, I have a dumb question. Many people who have tried to talk me into incorporating mention the "reduced" self-employment tax by paying on a W-2 as she mentioned vs paying the full self-employment tax. However it is my understanding that in fact that is a wash, or as I like to say a push-me-pull-you, since you pay two social security taxes: one on the profit of the corporation paying the employee's half of social security, and one as an "employee" of the corporation on your personal income taxes. In this analysis the whole thing is a semantics game in which it must be remembered that _you_ are both employer and employee who is in fact paying two separate taxes that total the same as a self-employed person. The folks with whom I have these debates still say "yeah well that's right but it's still cheaper". In general they don't inspire a lot of confidence in me since it's immediately apparent that they have invested all their mental energy in regard to this in the accountant's fee and appear to have little or no personal grasp of the mechanics of the process. [this is no slight to the Index-L folks, all of whose arguments and comments on this thread indicated considerable personal knowledge of the subject] I am rabidly self-sufficient and even if I did incorporate it would only be after learning as much if not more than the accountant about it. Can anyone please explain this for me once and for all? On the plus side I have heard that there _are_ other significant advantages in the form of increased deductability of certain expenses that may very well make it advantageous to incorporate. And I understand there are ways of structuring your "pay" so some is in the form of stock and that helps reduce your profit. I have been meaning to see a consultant about this for years but keep putting it off. I am chronically month in after month out struggling to survive on my earnings and I worry how this would affect my relationship with my own earnings in terms of "paying myself" as opposed to just going to the MAC machine when I need money? Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! What do dyslexic agnostic insomniacs do? They lie awake at night wondering if there really is a dog. First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 14:09:07 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Foreign articles I am working on a book with numerous citations in French. The publisher prefers inversion of articles. All well and good. The journal "Le National" becomes "National, Le." My question arises about book titles which, except for the initial word (or proper nouns) are all lowercased. For example, does "L'aristocratie en Amerique" (accent omitted) become aristocratie en Amerique, L' or Aristocratie en Amerique, L' i.e., initial cap or not? Opinions welcomed! Craig Brown ===================================== The Last Word Indexing (314)352-9094 lastword@i1.net ===================================== ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 14:18:15 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandra Topping Subject: Re: humor in logos I like Dawn Schroeder's suggestion -- the broccoli with its botanical name is an elegant touch. Everything whimsical I tried to come up with wound up looking suspiciously like whipped cream and chocolate sauce! Sandy Topping ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 11:07:41 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Knoeller Subject: Re: humor in logos It would either have to be a silhouette of a wienerschnitzel, as someone suggested, or a portrait of Charlemagne... hhhmmmmm. Or Sinatra? :) LLFEdServ@AOL.COM wrote: > > I personally don't see anything wrong with using a sprig of broccoli. After > all, you've been blessed with that name. And open books clipart is used and > used and used. I don't think the broccoli is offensively funny. It's more > just "catchy." If you wanted, you could superimpose the broccoli on the book, > as if it were a fountain pen or something. Or, you could use a computer and > put the sprig of broccoli in the screen. You don't have to limit yourself to > just one image. That way, you could use the broccoli in a way that you feel > more comfortable. I'm still trying to figure out what to do with Frank Words. > And I'm envious that you have something so fun to work with. > > Leslie > Frank Words Indexing and Editing ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 13:56:35 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nancy K Humphreys Subject: WIn95 font size problem In control panel/display/settings-- if you can move the arrow for the desktop area all the way to the left to 640-480 resolution and click ok, your fonts will go back to regular (small) size. After that you might try= going into control panel/display/ appearance. There you have more control= =2E You can change font sizes for individual components like icons, etc. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 13:59:48 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PilarW@AOL.COM Subject: ASI Washington, DC Chapter meeting Ask the Indexer Saturday, November 22, 1997 10:00 AM National Agricultural Library, Room 1400 Beltsville, MD (From I-95, take exit 25 North on Route 1 to Beltsville. NAL is the tall building on the right.) Come, bring your questions, concerns, and sociability! We'll have a moderator and a panel of recognized experts: Kate Mertes, indexer; Shirley Edwards, former indexer and now administrator; Ann Mohan, purchaser of indexing services; and Barbara DeGennaro, indexer. Questions may be asked orally or in writing and submitted to the moderator at any time during the discussion. The panel will answer all questions asked, and answers may also be volunteered by audience members. Come one, come all! Come experienced indexers, students, wannabes, former indexers, family members with a grudge, etc. -- just come prepared to ask and answer. We'll have time after the formal program for socializing, too. Remember: Attendance at the meeting gets your name entered in a drawing for a free trip to the annual ASI meeting in Seattle next May! Coffee, tea, juice, and pastries will be provided. NAL is just north of the Capital Beltway, on the east side of US Route 1, Baltimore Boulevard. There is plenty of free parking behind the building. RSVP by Nov. 19: 410/269-0978 or mariac@indexing.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 12:01:31 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Anne Taylor Subject: Re: humor in logos At 09:40 AM 10/28/97 -0500, you wrote: >Leslie, > >Surely someone's suggested a graphic slightly curved frankfurter as the >background for super-imposed letters spelling Frank Words? > Diane in Kazoo > (Kazoos are considered funny too, but don't look for one on my logo.) Given the resemblance of my name to that of a national retail chain, I hesitate to use it for freelance business. (Corporations are sooo touchy about copyrights and trademarks these days...) I'm considering using something like "The Bibliophile", but I'm afraid the word's too obscure. Anne (not Ann) Taylor Anne Cleester Taylor University of Missouri-St. Louis Thomas Jefferson Library Reference sactayl@umslvma.umsl.edu http://www.umsl.edu/~ataylor ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 11:42:19 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Joanne E. Clendenen" Organization: AfterWords Indexing Services Subject: Re: Cindex Freezing Nancy K Humphreys wrote: > > Joanne, what version of Cindex are you using? I use 5.0 in a Win95 Dos bo= > x > in a split screen with Endnote, Word or WordPerfect and have never had a > freeze (knock on wood!). I'm using 6.1. Peter Norton's book is really good, but I'm > surprised if he didn't say that Win95 problems with DOS programs are > usually with games software. I'd suggest using the Mac technicians' old > trick and reinstalling your Cindex software if it keeps freezing. Norton's book does say that most of the problems are with games. I've tried the reinstallation procedure before. Indexing Research gave me an interesting suggestion to uncheck the HMA box in the properties/memory screen for the Cindex application icon. I've just started a new index with this change made, but haven't gotten to the edit stage, where problems have occurred in the past. We'll see how it goes. Joanne -- AfterWords Indexing Services Joanne E. Clendenen email: jbclend@bigfoot.com http://www.flash.net/~jbclend ---------------- "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not any simpler." Einstein ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 11:07:36 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Wilkerson Subject: AOL Chat - Textbooks - Fiction - Marketing at Publisher Conventions If you would like a copy of the AOL Bookindexer's Chat E-mail me. Give me a couple of days because I am collecting all request into one mailing so save time. We have decided to editing the chats to just the indexing topics for length and ease of reading. For the fun stuff you have to attend :-) If you would like to join us next week E-mail me for the link. We meet on Monday at 8:30 P.M. Central Time. We will also be meeting on Thursday at 3:15 P.M. starting November 6th. We also have an ICQ Chat meeting on Saturdays at 7:00 A.M. Central Time. If you don't have it, ICQ is a program that allows everyone with any internet provider to come together in a chat room. This is for everyone where the AOL Chat is just for American on Line subscribers. If you would like to attend the ICQ chat download the software from: http://members.aol.com/bookindexr the UIN or ICQ number for the ICQ Book Indexer's Chat is: 3240967. We meet this saturday so come join us. Susan Wilkerson Bookindexr@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 08:04:49 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Paul Buell Subject: Re: humor in logos In-Reply-To: <9710281456.AA03763@henson.cc.wwu.edu> How about a picture of Carolus Magnus providing a document--the Franks words? Paul D. Buell On Tue, 28 Oct 1997 WordenDex@aol.com wrote: > Leslie, > > Surely someone's suggested a graphic slightly curved frankfurter as the > background for super-imposed letters spelling Frank Words? > Diane in Kazoo > (Kazoos are considered funny too, but don't look for one on my logo.) > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:32:46 -0500 Reply-To: wgm@sageline.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: William Meisheid Subject: Re: Zip disks for archiving Liza Weinkove wrote: > Does anyone have any information about the relative durability and > reliability of Zip disks versus ordinary 31/2 inch floppies for long-term > archiving of data - eg old index files? Liza, With the prices of CD-ROM writers dropping rapidly (under $400 now) the perfect archival mechanism is a multi-session CD. It will hold over 600 megs and is good for at least 25 years. You can get the blanks for less than $10. Even if you don't have enough to fill one doing temporary archives on Zip disks and then pooling the Zips onto a CD every year or so would be a good solution. -- ___________________________________________________________________ William Meisheid "Thoughts still and always in progress" Certified RoboHELP Training email: wgm@sageline.com Sageline Publishing 410.465.1548 Fax: 410.465.1812 WUGNET/Help Authoring Forum - Sysop for: Style/Concepts/Etc CSi email: 70713.2225@compuserve.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 07:37:18 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Paul Buell Subject: Re: humor in logos In-Reply-To: <9710280437.AA17871@henson.cc.wwu.edu> Medieval coats of arms often involved such jokes, in fact, they usually did. I think it is a classy idea. What you need now is a Latin phrase to go with the broccoli. per brocolli ad astra? Paul D. Buell On Mon, 27 Oct 1997 LLFEdServ@aol.com wrote: > I personally don't see anything wrong with using a sprig of broccoli. After > all, you've been blessed with that name. And open books clipart is used and > used and used. I don't think the broccoli is offensively funny. It's more > just "catchy." If you wanted, you could superimpose the broccoli on the book, > as if it were a fountain pen or something. Or, you could use a computer and > put the sprig of broccoli in the screen. You don't have to limit yourself to > just one image. That way, you could use the broccoli in a way that you feel > more comfortable. I'm still trying to figure out what to do with Frank Words. > And I'm envious that you have something so fun to work with. > > Leslie > Frank Words Indexing and Editing > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:48:41 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kamm Y. Schreiner" Subject: Re: humor in logos Kevin, I don't think I want to get into the middle of a debate about which logo is better. However, I would like to throw out a little bit of what is hindsight knowledge. What ever you decide on, I would try to keep it simple. This is something that you are hopefully going to have to use for a long time to come. If you plan to use your logo on everything related to your company, I think you will find it saves you a lot of time and hassle to have a simple logo. A logo does not have to be complicated to be good, unique or "catchy". I am currently thinking about redesigning my company logo for this very reason. It will be a tough pill to swallow since I have used it for 10 years and it is already a registered trademark of my company. Finally, I would take a look at the logo's of "successful" companies and try to determine what you like about those logos. Then try to design your logo using some of the attributes that you like about their logos. Just my two cents. Sincerely, Kamm Schreiner President SKY Software 4675 York Rd #1 Manchester, MD 21102 email: kamm@sky-software.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 06:59:03 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: humor in logos In-Reply-To: <199710301415.GAA10688@mail-gw2.pacbell.net> At 02:18 PM 10/28/97 -0500, you wrote: >I like Dawn Schroeder's suggestion -- the broccoli with its botanical name is >an elegant touch. > >Everything whimsical I tried to come up with wound up looking suspiciously >like whipped cream and chocolate sauce! ROFL!!!!! This had me on the floor!!!!! :-D Lynn *********************************** Lynn Moncrief (techndex@pacbell.net) TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing *********************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 09:11:35 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: humor in logos In-Reply-To: <199710301547.HAA08999@mail-gw3.pacbell.net> Oooops! Sorry, folks. I meant to send that directly to Sandy. Lynn *********************************** Lynn Moncrief (techndex@pacbell.net) TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing *********************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 14:40:08 UT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Judy King Subject: Re: AOL Chat - Textbooks - Fiction - Marketing at Publisher Conventions Thank you for limiting the comments to indexing topics. I don't have time to cull through casual conversations, but wanted the information from the indexing topics. ---------- From: Indexer's Discussion Group on behalf of Susan Wilkerson Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 1997 10:07 AM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: AOL Chat - Textbooks - Fiction - Marketing at Publisher Conventions If you would like a copy of the AOL Bookindexer's Chat E-mail me. Give me a couple of days because I am collecting all request into one mailing so save time. We have decided to editing the chats to just the indexing topics for length and ease of reading. For the fun stuff you have to attend :-) If you would like to join us next week E-mail me for the link. We meet on Monday at 8:30 P.M. Central Time. We will also be meeting on Thursday at 3:15 P.M. starting November 6th. We also have an ICQ Chat meeting on Saturdays at 7:00 A.M. Central Time. If you don't have it, ICQ is a program that allows everyone with any internet provider to come together in a chat room. This is for everyone where the AOL Chat is just for American on Line subscribers. If you would like to attend the ICQ chat download the software from: http://members.aol.com/bookindexr the UIN or ICQ number for the ICQ Book Indexer's Chat is: 3240967. We meet this saturday so come join us. Susan Wilkerson Bookindexr@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 12:28:41 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Elsa F. Kramer" Subject: Re: sole proprietorship vs incorporation In-Reply-To: <199710301415.JAA10329@beavis.inetdirect.net> > In reference to Pilar's question a while back about the advantages >of incorporating, I have a dumb question. Many people who have tried to >talk me into incorporating mention the "reduced" self-employment tax by >paying on a W-2 as she mentioned vs paying the full self-employment tax. >However it is my understanding that in fact that is a wash, or as I like to >say a push-me-pull-you, since you pay two social security taxes: one on the >profit of the corporation paying the employee's half of social security, and >one as an "employee" of the corporation on your personal income taxes. Kevin, your concern is one that comes up regularly on this issue. I'm sorry -- I meant to send more information on this some time back and then became distracted by work. I think the bottom line on this depends on how much income is involved, and what kind of expenses you have to deduct. This is where the expense of a CPA *at least one time* is really worthwhile. You don't have to continue to use an accountant every year, but you will have purchased an explanation that will satisfy you, and have a contact for future questions. A good CPA can look at your previous tax returns and your projections and tell you in very short order whether your particular set of circumstances would make incorporation a financial improvement for you. If you are incorporated as a subchapter S, the corporation pays the matching portion of your Social Security. That matching amount is fully deductible by the corporation as an expense, which becomes useful in reducing *on paper* the amount of profit you show. It sounds nuts, but your goal will not be to demonstrate that you are wildly profitable -- not on paper. Reducing profit on paper does not affect the amount of money you take out in salary or dividends, which can be whatever you want and can afford. The corporate profit passes on to you as an individual (on Schedule K-1) and is taxed on your personal income tax return, which is why subchapter S corporations work hard to keep their profit picture low on paper. When you file as a sole proprietor, you pay both halves of the Social Security tax, and while a portion of it is recaptured on your personal tax return, none of it is deductible as a business expense. But this by itself is not reason enough to incorporate, IMO. If you have good income but little or no expense to deduct other than SS tax, I can't imagine that incorporation would make much difference. I, too, am rabid about doing everything myself, but am forever grateful to the CPA who explained this counterintuitive aspect of taxation to me. I urge you to spend the money to find out! Elsa Kramer Indianapolis ..................................................... "People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." --Kierkegaard ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 11:46:46 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Joanne E. Clendenen" Organization: AfterWords Indexing Services Subject: Spanish Names Ok. I give up. Help! I have my first book with lots of Spanish names, mainly 18th century. The book is about San Antonio. Mulvany and Wellisch both give examples of how to handle these, and I know I need to be careful because the last element in the name isn't always the one to index by, since Hispanic family names often have the mother's name as primary. Some of the iterations are confusing and don't fit with the examples given in the books. Mulvany says that if it's like Martin de Leon, I should do like this: Leon, Martin de What about Antonio Margil de Jesus? I sense a mother's name here. Is Margil de Jesus, Antonio correct? If the person has three names with no prepositions or articles, should I always assume that I should index on the middle one, or do Spanish speakers have middle names like Anglos sometimes? My linguistic training lets me guess that most of the middle names are family type rather than personal, but sometimes it's hard to tell. I think I'm safe with Juan Agustin Morfi as Agustin Morfi, Juan but I'm not sure about Jose Maria Sanchez. Is it still Maria Sanchez, Jose? Here's a stumper for you: Don Juan Antonio Perez de Almazan. My guess is Perez de Almazan, Don Juan Antonio Is this correct? I would love to hear from the Spanish experts out there, and know that you wonderful folks will assuage my anxiety and feed my perfectionism. PS. I apologize for the lack of accented letters; I left them out because I don't know if this plain text message will support them. Joanne -- AfterWords Indexing Services Joanne E. Clendenen email: jbclend@bigfoot.com http://www.flash.net/~jbclend ---------------- "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not any simpler." Einstein ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 12:54:58 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: humor in logos At 06:59 AM 10/30/97 -0800, you wrote: h. >> >>Everything whimsical I tried to come up with wound up looking suspiciously >>like whipped cream and chocolate sauce! > > >ROFL!!!!! This had me on the floor!!!!! :-D > >Lynn CAREFUL!! Your stitches!!! Dick ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 13:15:51 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandra Topping Subject: Re: Spanish Names Dear Joanne: You're on the right track. Margil de Jesus would probably be correct, as would Perez de Almazan (meaning the Perez family of the town of Almazan). Both Augustin and Maria could be given names, however, rather than part of a family name. Hie thee to one of two places -- the library, where you should look for references (perhaps even a Spanish-language version of Webster's Biographical Dictionary); or the Language Department of the local Universidad -- better yet, perhaps you can find an expert on Texas history. This could wind up being one of those Really Fun Projects one gets every now and then! Sandy Topping ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:52:33 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lindsay Gower Subject: Re: Spanish Names At 11:46 AM 10/30/97 -0600, Joanne wrote: , or do Spanish >speakers have middle names like Anglos sometimes? My linguistic >training lets me guess that most of the middle names are family type >rather than personal, but sometimes it's hard to tell. Hispanic practice is to give *at least* one middle name, often two or three, generally saints' names. It is not unusual for men to have "Maria" as a middle name. So you've got: Morfi, Juan Agustin Sanchez, Jose Maria Perez de Almazan, Juan Antonio "Don" is an honorific, not a name. If you included it in an index (I wouldn't), ignore it when alphabetizing the name -- for example: Sanchez, Don Alonso Sanchez, Diego As far as last names go, I can't offer much, except to say if there is a "y" between two words, the two words are last names -- Juan Maria Diego Garcia y Sanchez = Garcia y Sanchez, Juan Maria Diego. (I believe in everyday practice his friends would think of him as Juan Garcia.) Hope that's of some help. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Lindsay Gower | email: lindsay@persistence.com Technical Writer | phone: 1.650.372.3606 Persistence Software Inc. | fax: 1.650.341.8432 1720 S. Amphlett Blvd., Suite 300 | http://www.persistence.com San Mateo, CA USA 94402 | ---------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 15:12:35 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Joanne E. Clendenen" Organization: AfterWords Indexing Services Subject: Re: Spanish Names Thanks to Sandra and Lindsay for their timely tips on Spanish names. I don't think I have time for the library run; I think I'll go with Lindsay's suggestions. However, I have a really hard one for you now that I'm on page 157: What do I do about Santa Anna (the famous Mexican general)? Spanish usage would dictate Lopez de Santa Anna, Antonio assuming Lopez is not a personal name (but it might be). Anyway, he's definitely known in the Anglo community as Santa Anna. My instinct is to start with Santa Anna on this one, since the audience will be primarily Anglo tourists to San Antonio. This is not a heavy scholarly book, but a historical guidebook. Joanne -- AfterWords Indexing Services Joanne E. Clendenen email: jbclend@bigfoot.com http://www.flash.net/~jbclend ---------------- "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not any simpler." Einstein ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 17:06:51 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: Spanish Names According to AACR2 (Anglo-American Cataloguing Rules, 2nd revised edition), rule 22.5D1 is a good basic guideline for Spanish names with prefixes: "If the prefix consists of an article only, enter under it. Las Heras, Manual Enter all other names under the part following the prefix. Figueroa, Francisco de Rio, Antonio del" They give Casas, Bartolome de las as an example for the second part of the rule above, but he is generally written about as Las Casas. Fortunately, he is one of the few exceptions to this rule. Spanish names generally have at least two components to them (mother's name is last, as in Gabriel Garcia Marquez) and the first of the two last names is the one that needs to be indexed, followed by the second name, as in Garcia Marquez, Gabriel. Names can end with de Jesus, as you state, and this begins to muddy up the neat rules. Usually some of these are based on titles of nobility, and you can even get grandmothers' names thrown in for good measure. Your examples below should be, Sanchez, Jose Maria Margil de Jesus, Antonio Morfi, Juan Agustin Perez de Almazan, Juan Antonio (leave out the Don which is an honorific) Also Lopez de Santa Anna, Antonio should be Santa Anna, Antonio Lopez de (see rule above). You need to think about cross references from Almazan to Perez de Almazan, etc. If you don't have a biographical dictionary like Merriam-Webster's Biographical Dictionary, you need to get one. It helps with some of these sorts of names. Also, CMS is indispensable. Other references to look at for future indexing projects include The Handbook of Latin American Studies, HAPI Thesaurus, and an old book (1938) probably only in libraries--Spanish Personal Names: Principles Governing Their Formation and Use Which May Be Presented as a Help for Catalogers and Bibliographers (by Charles Francis Gosnell). You can also check some names in the Library of Congress authority files via the LC catalog: http://lcweb.loc.gov/z3950/gateway.html#lc Note: If a person has not been written about or has not written anything, you might not get much help through that, but it's a start. At 11:46 AM 10/30/97 -0600, Joanne E. Clendenen wrote: >Ok. I give up. Help! > >I have my first book with lots of Spanish names, mainly 18th century. >The book is about San Antonio. Mulvany and Wellisch both give examples >of how to handle these, and I know I need to be careful because the last >element in the name isn't always the one to index by, since Hispanic >family names often have the mother's name as primary. Some of the >iterations are confusing and don't fit with the examples given in the >books. > >Mulvany says that if it's like Martin de Leon, I should do like this: > >Leon, Martin de > >What about Antonio Margil de Jesus? I sense a mother's name here. Is > >Margil de Jesus, Antonio > >correct? > >If the person has three names with no prepositions or articles, should I >always assume that I should index on the middle one, or do Spanish >speakers have middle names like Anglos sometimes? My linguistic >training lets me guess that most of the middle names are family type >rather than personal, but sometimes it's hard to tell. I think I'm safe >with Juan Agustin Morfi as > >Agustin Morfi, Juan > >but I'm not sure about Jose Maria Sanchez. Is it still > >Maria Sanchez, Jose? > >Here's a stumper for you: Don Juan Antonio Perez de Almazan. >My guess is > >Perez de Almazan, Don Juan Antonio > >Is this correct? > >I would love to hear from the Spanish experts out there, and know that >you wonderful folks will assuage my anxiety and feed my perfectionism. > >PS. I apologize for the lack of accented letters; I left them out >because I don't know if this plain text message will support them. > >Joanne > > >-- >AfterWords Indexing Services >Joanne E. Clendenen >email: jbclend@bigfoot.com >http://www.flash.net/~jbclend >---------------- >"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not any simpler." >Einstein > > ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 16:21:53 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: great quote for indexing? I was just reading the letters column in Wired, and a person named Karen Coyle had written: "Information seeking is a very complex human activity, not easily expressed in algorithms or calculations. It is both cumulative and iterative, and needs to take into account such things as the seeker's level of education, language preferences, and immediate goals. So far, the best interface between a person and information has turned out to be another person - someone who has already studied the topic at hand." Perhaps someone who has indexed the topic at hand? This is so nice and succinct! Jan (P.S.> Please note my new email address, all - I will be getting off of AOL sometime soon. Too many times I have needed to email an index, and found I cannot access the mail system.) <>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<> Jan C. Wright Wright Information Indexing Services jancw@mindspring.com or jancw@aol.com (for a little while longer) <>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 17:12:24 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: francine cronshaw Subject: Re: Spanish Names In-Reply-To: Dear Joann, As your other replies have indicated, the patronym (father's last name) is the major way to organize the two last names in Spanish. "Santa Anna" is a major exception to the rule, as your respondents pointed out. A major reference tool for those who will index Spanish personal names is the Hispanic American Periodical Index, generated by Barbara Valk at UCLA's Latin American Center. It is available in print version at universities with research libraries. HAPI also has a web page. For further info, contact her at bvalk@ucla.edu The HAPI Thesaurus and Name Authority contains the names of people who are currently writing on Latin American topics in English, Spanish or Portuguese. It also contains the names of leading historical figures. Francine Cronshaw East Mountain Editing Services Tijeras, New Mexico ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:11:32 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: sole proprietorship vs incorporation Kevin wrote: << I am rabidly self-sufficient and even if I did incorporate it would only be after learning as much if not more than the accountant about it. Can anyone please explain this for me once and for all? >> Kevin, I am too .... and I was sorely tempted by all the "ayes". So I ^did^ consult my CPA (who is also a long-time friend who has my/our trust), and his advice was that there is no or slight advantage in it for me. It *is* a push-me-pull-you kind of thing. He explained it to me; at the time I understood, but I don't remember all the in's and outs of it. I will follow his advice, and will maintain my sole proprietorship. Philosophically I like it better that way too. Perhaps there is no *right* answer. Your tax consultant and/or attorney must be your final advisor. State tax law might also play into the decision. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 17:11:17 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: great quote for indexing? Perhaps, but I am pretty well fed up with academic goobledygook and ill-used phony terminology such as alogrithm, iterative, interface, and such. Information retrieval would be much more enhanced with simple, clear communication. t 04:21 PM 10/30/97 -0700, you wrote: >I was just reading the letters column in Wired, and a person named Karen >Coyle had written: > >"Information seeking is a very complex human activity, not easily expressed >in algorithms or calculations. It is both cumulative and iterative, and >needs to take into account such things as the seeker's level of education, >language preferences, and immediate goals. So far, the best interface >between a person and information has turned out to be another person - >someone who has already studied the topic at hand." > >Perhaps someone who has indexed the topic at hand? This is so nice and >succinct! > >Jan > >(P.S.> Please note my new email address, all - I will be getting off of AOL >sometime soon. Too many times I have needed to email an index, and found I >cannot access the mail system.) > ><>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<> > >Jan C. Wright >Wright Information Indexing Services >jancw@mindspring.com or jancw@aol.com (for a little while longer) > ><>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<> > > Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:31:36 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM Subject: Re: humor in logos In a message dated 97-10-30 19:35:50 EST, you write: << It would either have to be a silhouette of a wienerschnitzel, as someone suggested, or a portrait of Charlemagne... hhhmmmmm. Or Sinatra? :) >> Actually, to all of you who suggested franks (funny, I always think of them as hot dogs, so frankfurters never came to mind), I wish I could use something like "Leslie's." Only antiquers and old magazine fans might know, so it's meaningless to the average Joe (and therefore useless), but Frank Leslie (yes, he really had my name backwards) had a magazine out around the time of WW I called "Leslie's." A few of his covers adorn my house. (This is also a pitch--if any of you come across the covers, please email me.) But, I've settled on Frank Words instead. I like the portrait of Charlemagne, no Sinatra for me. And it makes me seem regal, doesn't it? Thanks for your humor, Leslie Frank Words Editing, Indexing and Conquering!!!!! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 17:59:37 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Margot Diltz Subject: Indexer positions near SF Interested in data base indexing? Information Access Company has several fulltime openings for indexers and abstractors. Content Editor 1 Abstract and/or index magazine articles or other information sources for inclusion in IAC products. Select articles to be processed according to established guidelines. Scan, analyze and interpret articles for pertinent content. Assign appropriate index terms and/or codes from controlled authority files. Create abstracts or summaries according to content and style guidelines. Requires ability to meet deadlines in a team-oriented,production environment. Excellent reading comprehension and writing skills are essential. Previous indexing/abstracting/writing experience desirable. College degree preferred. Applicants must be able to work on site at Information Access Company, 362 Lakeside Drive, Foster City, California 94404. Send resumes to the Human Resources Department at the address above, fax 650-378-5029, or email to hr_west@iacnet.com. (Foster City is 20 miles south of San Francisco.) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:59:45 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Indexing espionage In-Reply-To: <199710302339.PAA00231@pacific.net> I've just discovered an interesting passage in a review in ^The Nation^ (Nov. 3) by Victor Navasky of a book called ^Perjury: The Hiss-Chambers Case^, by Allen Weinstein. Weinstein's book is an updated version of his 1978 edition, and Navasky, as a reporter then, had raised issues about the author's sources. Large and substantial issues. He reviews those issues and talks about new ones. One of the new ones is about the index. Background: Recently published by the U.S. government, a 1945 cable from Moscow to its U.S. agents referred to a person code-named "Ales". In an unsigned footnote to the cable dated twenty-four years after the original cable was sent, it is stated that Ales is "probably Alger Hiss." Navasky questions this and shows additional evidence why this is probably not true, that Hiss was not "Ales". Navasky finally writes: "Yet Allen Weinstein is so intent on finding certainty where the record exudes ambiguity that he even engages in argument-by-index. Look up 'Ales' in the index of the new edition and one finds '"ALES" (pseud. of Hiss)'." [p.16] My comment is that I'm a strong believer in following the text when I index. The author claims Ales is Hiss. It is not proved. Unfortunately I can see myself doing what that indexer (assuming it was not Weinstein) did, possibly in all innocence. Do others agree that the parenthetical statement should have read (alleged pseu. of Hiss)? I'm not asking about the political truth. I'm asking, where does an indexer draw the line in such matters? Does the indexer need to feel convinced by the author's arguments? Or does the indexer follow the author's statements as the guide? I've never indexed a book in which someone is making a case against another person, although I am trained in international relations and law indexing and would like to eventually. My only guide is this: in law indexing I was taught not to state the law, but to describe it. How have some of you handled cases like this? Best, Victoria vbaker@pacific.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:14:57 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Martha Osgood Subject: Triple index question Hi, Indexers - I've been asked to bid on a 240 page book with three indexes (subject, authors, sources) that the editor believes will need between 18 and 24 pages of (three) indexes. Without stating any monetary figures, can folks on the list tell me whether doing three indexes in one book requires a small additional charge, a middle sized additional charge, or a large additional charge. What about doing two indexes in one book? Do you decide the price in a percentage sense, or in some other way? Are there more problems than I can imagine with two and three index books? Can Cindex for Mac keep three indexes open, or just two? What else should I know about triple indexes before I leap happily into the void? Martha ****************************************************** Martha Osgood osgood@darkwing.uoregon.edu Back Words Indexing 541-484-1180 Eugene, OR Back-of-the-Book Indexing for Publishers and Authors ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:30:58 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Wilkerson Subject: Sorry Well I did it again. I accidently sent the chat to the list......Sorry Susan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:31:31 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Wilkerson Subject: Re: AOL Chat - Textbooks - Fiction - Marketing at Publisher C The log has been edited for length and clarity. All the non index stuff = have been deleted...that why it abruptly starts and stops. Susan AOL CHAT 10/27/97 CccJlc: I have a question...index related :-) Bookindexr: Ok Ccc CccJlc: I want to do some samples, and I want to index textbooks everyone says, find a book without an index, but have any of you ever seen a textb= ook without an index? and....the textbooks that i am finding are really long. Would it suffice= to do a few chapters for a sample? Not that I'm lazy, but why do more for f= ree than you have to? REvans4: Find any book, and don't look at the index Bookindexr: Yep the ones that don't have index usually don't need one. Lawrenc846:Yes, just decide what subject you want to do. You can always n= ot look at it. That is not look at the published index. Bookindexr: If you find one that has an index it will kind of act like an answer key to a test. You can look to see how well you have done and what= you may have included or may not have included. CccJlc: Right, that's how I've been using them, to compare my thought processes to theirs Mgendx: I would think that a sample of a few chapters would be enough to = show your stuff. Lawrenc846: So get a short textbook but I would do the entire book. REvans4: Answer key: If it was a good one to begin with CccJlc: I haven't been able to get my hands on any short ones yet Bookindexr: I figured someone would say that as soon as I said it. Mgendx: What education level? Mgendx: Textbooks, that is CccJlc: College level. But...maybe I could get some short ones at the lo= cal high school. Maybe that would be a better idea. Bookindexr: I have my daughter's college literature book I am about to st= art on. I have been putting it off for three week dealing with my daughter. Mgendx: Is indexing a textbook much different from indexing a technical b= ook that is not a textbook? CccJlc: I was thinking of marketing to my old college professors CccJlc: Susan, you are indexing your daughters lit book? Bookindexr: Yes she never turned it in last year so I am going to use it.= I love learning about writing anyway. CccJlc: good idea. Have you ever thought about how useful it would be to have an index to some of the classic literature the works, themselves, I mean. I remember searching and searching when writing papers. Bookindexr: hmmmm Yes I guess it would be. Lawrenc846: On another topic Lawrenc846: Does anyone attend scholarly or other conventions and search = for indexing work. Any comments on doing REvans4: I have looked into publishing convention, but they were way too expensive. Mgendx: Lawrence I have attended a few in the exhibits area. Lawrenc846: I was planing on going to the American Anthropological conven= tion since it takes place here next week. Mgendx: Exhibit passes are cheap or free and you can actually make good contacts. Lawrenc846: What is involved in getting an exhibit pass. Do you set up a booth? Mgendx: No, just a pass to stroll around. I have attended BookPubWorld in= NYC and a few others there. Sometimes you can register just to see the exhibi= ts. Lawrenc846: One typo, the AAA convention is in DC next month, not next we= ek. Mgendx: The only problem with limiting yourself to just exhibits is that = you talk only to the marketing staff Lawrenc846: Yes, well I'll check it out but I'll probably want to do more than exhibits. Mgendx: Still, I have resumes and business cards at the ready. The topic = of the convention and your background seem to imply that you would probably = want to do that. I might be snooping around the exhibits at an upcoming internetworld convention. Passes are complements of a friend in marketing. Bookindexr: So you just walk around the publishing convention and offerin= g your services to the publishers? Mgendx: Well, yes, sort of. Bookindexr: I never thought of marketing myself that way. Mgendx: Some people I know from doing the booth for a company I used to w= ork for when they set up at the Special Libraries Assoc. Convention Lawrenc846: One thing I've done in the past at conventions is systematica= lly go from booth to booth with cards & resumes saying I'm an indexer and who should I contact. Bookindexr: That is really a good idea especially if the publishers are f= rom different states. They meet you and get to know you personally. Mgendx: I haven't done this in a while (kids, you know). Bookindexr: Do any of you know how you can find out when and where they h= ave them? Mgendx: I was trying to find something on the net, when I noticed a path(= of sorts) to conventions. Got cut off before I could try it out. Bookindexr: I know the book store owners I worked for went to a book convention just a few weeks ago. I never even thought of soliciting there= . It was right here in Memphis. Mgendx: If it's close and has publishers it's always worth a visit. Bookindexr: Usually the ASI meetings and indexing seminars are a long distance away. Mgendx: This is not to say that your phone will be ringing off the hook, = but I have made a few good contacts. CccJlc: yes, that's why I haven't really pursued a part time job but I do= n't think I will be able to resist the greenhouses in the spring. Lawrenc846: Any thoughts on indexing fiction. Many of the longer works co= uld use help in following the plot. Mgendx: Lawrence - I agree 100% Bookindexr: I didn't know fiction was indexable. CccJlc: I agree too. I was just thinking about that earlier Lawrenc846: Publishers don't seem to think so but it would be useful. Mgendx: I have read more than one mystery that I wished had an index. CccJlc: It seems like it would be really difficult though Bookindexr: But why would you index a fiction? Bookindexr: Fiction is a story that is read straight through. Mgendx: I have been reading the Little House series to my daughter. Oh! h= ow I wish they had indexes. CccJlc: Like, if it was really long, and you could remember "that scene" = but didn't know where it was. Lawrenc846: To follow the characters in a complicated series. REvans4: Still, there are nuggets of information in fiction Lawrenc846: Something along this line is being done, I've been told in th= e Patrick O'Brien nautical fiction. Bookindexr: Do you mean the index would be useful after you read it or before. CccJlc: Maybe both Lawrenc846: Both Mgendx: War and Peace, for example REvans4: For instance, the new Conan TV series has prompted a lot of discussion in a Conan news group. I used to read the series as a kid, but would have no idea now where to find a particular character or event. Mgendx: Conan the Barbarian? REvans4: Yes Bookindexr: But are there any publishers that want to put an index in the= ir books? Mgendx: Probably not. REvans4: Oh, that's another question. I'm thinking more like publishing t = he index separately Mgendx: They don't want to spend any more $$ than they have to CccJlc: now there's the 64000 dollar question Mgendx: Also, they want to get the book on the shelves. Lawrenc846: Perhaps this is more like doing a book, an index on a series = and then trying to sell it to the public. Lawrenc846: More authoring than indexing, although producing an index. Mgendx: Except for the Little House series and a few kid books, I haven't read fiction in what seems like years. Only the non-fiction that I index. sigh. Lawrenc846: On fiction indexing, perhaps the answer is requires a book proposal to a proposal. Mgendx: Lawrence Can you explain? Lawrenc846: Just like marketing oneself as an indexer but longer with examples, to do a book length index. I'm thinking of course of a series, = not just a single book Bookindexr: And offer it to the publisher of the book? CccJlc: Interesting thought ...I know I have a series in mind that I woul= d like to do that with. Bookindexr: Why not a single book Lawrence? Lawrenc846: Yes. Because I think a series would be easier to sell. Bookindexr: If it is a best seller they will keep on publishing it. Mgendx: Or a classic. Lawrenc846: Easier to argue the need for a book length index for a series. Bookindexr: I love to index Gone With the Wind and Scarlett=85..yes I gue= ss it would Lawrenc846: There are certainly some classics that are long enough for a = long index but then you have to wait until they republish it. Mgendx: James Michner's books could use indexes. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 23:45:00 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Lane Subject: Indexing, the Art of Can anyone tell me where I might find a copy of Knight, G. Norman. _Indexing, the Art of_. London: George Allen & Unwin, 1979. ISBN 0-04-029002-6 I've borrowed a copy from the university library, and I would like to own a copy for myself. Searching the Web hasn't yielded any copies. Anyone? [Note: This same message was posted to Copyediting-L, so apologies if you had to read it twice.] Karen Lane klane@digital.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 00:34:10 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Fred C. Radford" Subject: Re: Indexing, the Art of In-Reply-To: <199710310507.AAA20643@mail.iserv.net> Hello, How do I subscribe to Copyediting-L? Thank you. Fred ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 02:01:43 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: Indexing, the Art of Karen Lane asks: Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: Re: AOL Chat - Textbooks - Fiction - Marketing at Publisher C The last AOL chat extract was very interesting - several important questions came up, but few answers. For people looking for unindexed books to practise on, = I'd like to recommend the journal The Indexer, which goes free to ASI members (and of course SI, AusSI and = IASC/SCAD members), and includes the Indexes Reviewed section, which I currently edit. This is divided into = Indexes Praised, Indexes Censured, Indexes Omitted, = Two Cheers and Obiter Dicta, and not only provides = a way of finding out about unindexed books but (I hope) = gives a good idea of the sort of indexes that reviewers approve or disapprove of. On indexing fiction, The Indexer has also included = articles on why fiction should be indexed, examples of = indexed fiction, etc. The ASI Web site has further = information (http://www.well.com/user/asi). I hope this is helpful. Christine ************************************************************* Christine Shuttleworth - Indexing and Editorial Services Flat 1, 25 St Stephen's Avenue, London W12 8JB Tel/Fax (+44 181) 749 8797 email ChristineShuttleworth@compuserve.com or 106234.1745@compuserve.com *************************************************************= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 07:27:55 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Wilkerson Subject: ICQ Book Indexers Chat Don't forget the ICQ Book Indexers Chat is tomorrow at 7:00 A.M. Central Time. This chat is for anyone with any internet provider not just AOL. If you would like to participate E-mail me for directions or go to the web site: http://members.aol.com/bookindexr Susan Wilkerson Bookindexr@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 07:30:37 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Wilkerson Subject: ICQ Book Indexer's Chat I guess I should say that tomorrow is Saturday: 5:00 A.M. Pacific, 6:00 P.M. Mountain, 7:00 A.M. Central, 8:00 A.M. Eastern, 1:00 P.M. England and 10:00 P.M. Austrialia. Susan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 08:30:21 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SCTopping Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Foreign articles Did one similar to this a few years ago, only with film titles. The author stated specifically that correct form was NOT to capitalize. The first word of a title is the only one capitalized, whether or not it is an article. Of course, the AUTHOR could have been wrong -- I vass chust taking ordersss. Sandy Topping ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 08:52:59 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Anne Taylor Subject: Re: Spanish Names At 01:15 PM 10/30/97 -0500, you wrote: >Dear Joanne: > >You're on the right track. Margil de Jesus would probably be correct, as >would Perez de Almazan (meaning the Perez family of the town of Almazan). > Both Augustin and Maria could be given names, however, rather than part of a >family name. > >Hie thee to one of two places -- the library, where you should look for >references (perhaps even a Spanish-language version of Webster's Biographical >Dictionary); or the Language Department of the local Universidad -- better >yet, perhaps you can find an expert on Texas history. This could wind up >being one of those Really Fun Projects one gets every now and then! > >Sandy Topping And don't forget that the Library of Congress has been struggling with this issue for decades. You might use a library catalog based on LC and do a subject search for some of these names to see how their catalogers handled it. Anne Anne Cleester Taylor University of Missouri-St. Louis Thomas Jefferson Library Reference sactayl@umslvma.umsl.edu http://www.umsl.edu/~ataylor ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 21:57:32 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Noeline Bridge Subject: Foreign articles Craig, you asked whether the inversion of the article in the French title L'aristocratie en Amerique would result in Aristocratie en Amerique, l' or aristocratie en Amerique, L' Only the index style regarding initial words applies here: if the first letter is capitalized, it would be Aristocratie; if lower-case, aristocratie. Noeline Bridge BRIDGEWORK nbridge@planet.eon.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:26:34 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "D. Shaw" Subject: Indexing fiction I have a proposal in to an author, to index a series for a companion volume. For anyone contemplating this--and it's a very rewarding exercise--I suggest reading these articles from _The Indexer_ and boning up on indexing bibliography. "Compiling the first _Fiction index_" Alan Glencross _The Indexer_, Volume 13, Number 2, October 1982, pp. 86-87 "Compiling _Comulated fiction in 1975-1979_" M. E. Hicken _The Indexer_, Volume 13, Number 2, October 1982, pp. 88-89 "Indexes to works of fiction: the views of producters and users on the need for them" Philip Bradley _The Indexer_, Volume 16, Number 4, October 1989, pp. 239-248 "Indexing fiction: a story of complexity" Hazel K. Bell _The Indexer_, Volume 17, Number 4, October 1991, pp. 251-256 "Should fiction be indexed? The indexability of text" Hazel K. Bell _The Indexer, Volume 18, Number 2, October 1992, pp. 83-86 I'm a little intimidated by the business aspects of this project. If anyone has any advice on what rate to ask, it will be gratefully received. Details are available via private post. I did ask two of you privately, one who is local to me, but did not receive a response from the local indexer. Cheers, Deborah Shaw shawd@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 00:42:20 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: in-house contacts Here's a marketing question: If you have done some work for one editor at a large or mid-sized publishing house, is there a tactful way of requesting that s/he pass your name along to other editors in the house? How about to editors who handle your areas of interest or expertise? I contacted a firm which publishes some books on theater, and ended up doing social science books. I don't mind continuing with the social science stuff, but would like whoever edits the theater books to have my name. Or is the way to handle this to ask "my" editor to give me that person's name, and send a resume, cover letter and sample to the theater editor directly? Kara Pekar jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 13:26:22 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Seth A. Maislin" Subject: Re: in-house contacts In-Reply-To: "John and Kara Pekar" "in-house contacts" (Oct 31, 12:42am) Kara Pekar (jkpekar@crosslink.net) asked: > If you have done some work for one editor at a large or mid-sized > publishing house, is there a tactful way of requesting that s/he pass your > name along to other editors in the house? My advice? You don't have to ask directly, but asking directly also works. If you ask directly, say, "I'm always looking for my clients. Who else in your building would benefit from my work?" Or try this: "Are there a lot of people in your building/office/company who hire freelancers?" Stuff like that. (Even these questions aren't direct.) If you want to be subtle and not ask anything, send a thank you letter with about 20 business cards in it. I suppose someone could just throw them out, but around here people tend to create an impromptu pile of "free stuff" near the office microwave. You can find those "Free AOL Hours" disks there, business cards, coupons, out-of-date cassettes, leftover food, and so on, all marked with notes like "TAKE ME!" So those business cards might get where they need to go! But I think you should just ask. Even make a joke out of it. "You know, if you don't have any work for me right now, maybe your officemate would like an indexer. What's your officemate's name?" Putting this in your own words sounds casual, but it still asks for references. I wouldn't be surprised if you get an answer like, "You know, I think the people upstairs occasionally hire freelancers. I don't know, but maybe you could talk to the manager...." And what's the worst that will happen? "How dare you contact other people in office!"? Yeah, right. :-) - Seth -- Seth A. Maislin (seth@oreilly.com) <-- NOTE THE NEW DOMAIN O'Reilly & Associates Focus Publishing Services 90 Sherman Street 89 Grove Street Cambridge MA 02140 Watertown MA 02172-2826 (617) 499-7439 phone (617) 924-4428 (617) 661-1116 facsimile smaislin@world.std.com URL: http://www.oreilly.com/people/staff/seth <-- NEW DOMAIN Webmaster, Amer Soc of Indexers: http://www.well.com/user/asi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:26:21 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Foreign articles In-Reply-To: <199710310535.XAA20854@mixcom.mixcom.com> >aristocratie en Amerique, L' > >or > >Aristocratie en Amerique, L' > I would definitely do it the second way. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:26:49 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Triple index question In-Reply-To: <199710310535.XAA20854@mixcom.mixcom.com> >Are there more problems than I can imagine with two and three index books? >Can Cindex for Mac keep three indexes open, or just two? What else should >I know about triple indexes before I leap happily into the void? > In Cindex for Mac you can have several windows open at a time (depending on your RAM, etc.), so that shouldn't be a problem. I haven't charged anything extra when I've done multiple indexes, because I didn't feel it took me longer to do them. You're not creating more entries, just putting them in different places. I'll be interested in hearing what others have done, though. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 13:46:22 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Indexing error messages I occasionally come across isolated references to a particular error message in computer texts. If the message has no ID number and is too long to index in its entirety, is it OK to abbreviate it? Are there rules for such abbreviations. Example: The workbook you opened contains automatic links to information in another workbook. Do you want to update this workbook with changes made to the other workbook? I would index as: "workbook...contains automatic links..." message (where the quotes indicate italics) Would that suffice? Dick ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 11:11:33 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: in-house contacts At 12:42 AM 10/31/1997 -0500, John and Kara Pekar wrote: >Here's a marketing question: > >If you have done some work for one editor at a large or mid-sized >publishing house, is there a tactful way of requesting that s/he pass your >name along to other editors in the house? It seems perfectly natural and comfortable to me to make this request; in fact, I've offered to send along extra copies of my resume, biz cards, samples, etc. I've almost never gotten a negative response. In fact, I've had editors request that I do this, because they keep a freelance file in a central location for all editors to use. I've very rarely run across a situation where an editor wanted to keep me all to herself because good indexers are hard to find (I guess they don't know about Index-L) and she wanted me to be available whenever she called. But this has happened only once or twice over the last 25 or so years. I'd just ask for names in whatever way feels comfortable. 99 times out of 100, the editor will be happy to share the wealth. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:30:01 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Mullinix Subject: Re: Indexing fiction In-Reply-To: <199710311523.KAA16516@ kis.net> I have been indexing a fictional trilogy as practice work and have been thinking about trying to market the index. Instead of approaching the books' author, I would think that the author of an indexer could sell their work directly to the publisher, especially if the index will be published as a separate volume. From a business point of view, I would think this approach would be more profitable. How does this really work in practice, and is it standard protocol to contact the author as Debbie has? Everything about this subject seems interesting to me; I would love to hear comments on her questions and mine. Barb Mullinix bmullinix@oz.kis.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:36:48 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Re: Triple index question I routinely do journal indexes with separate author and subject indexes and never have any problems maneuvering between them. I'm not sure if there is currently a maximum number of indexes that can be opened simulataneously in Cindex; but I know I've never encountered a problem with up to 4 open; the limit is on the amount of memory rather than number of indexes. I never charge extra for separate indexes, since it's simply a matter of posting entries to more than one file; the rate depends on the complexity of the material. The only other factor to take into consideration in rate setting is that editing of the final index may take longer since you need to edit/verify each index separately. Carolyn Weaver In a message dated 97-10-31 09:18:00 EST, you write: << I've been asked to bid on a 240 page book with three indexes (subject, authors, sources) that the editor believes will need between 18 and 24 pages of (three) indexes. Without stating any monetary figures, can folks on the list tell me whether doing three indexes in one book requires a small additional charge, a middle sized additional charge, or a large additional charge. What about doing two indexes in one book? Do you decide the price in a percentage sense, or in some other way? Are there more problems than I can imagine with two and three index books? Can Cindex for Mac keep three indexes open, or just two? What else should I know about triple indexes before I leap happily into the void? Martha >> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:34:41 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marjanovic Mirjana Subject: Re: Foreign articles In-Reply-To: <199710311516.KAA23265@cyclone.ERE.UMontreal.CA> Hi Craig, INMHO, french language does not stand that kind of inversion. Could you leave the article at the begining but for the sort, configure your software to ignore Le, La or L'? > Craig, you asked whether the inversion of the article in the French title > L'aristocratie en Amerique would result in ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mirjana Marjanovic - (Martic) ~~~@ marjanom@ere.Umontreal.ca ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ LA VIE EST BELLE -- ZIVOT JE LEP (IF YOU WANNA MAKE IT THAT WAY) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 11:42:45 PST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Schwilk, Michael" Subject: Re[2]: Triple index question Martha, Can't speak for other publishers, but at Academic Press we pay separately for author indexes, simply because in scholarly works, every author cited in text is included, along with the reference page(s) on which s/he is cited. Depending upon the book, that can easily mean an index of over 1000 entries. Because we do not normally include authors in the index (subject index, that is) it is additional work for the indexer, for which payment would seem appropriate. Mike Schwilk Academic Press ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 11:48:39 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary S Stephenson Subject: Re: Indexing, the Art of In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19971030234500.007411f4@digital.net> Hi Karen, Norman Knight's book has unfortunately been out of print for some time. You might try an out of print book finder company in your area -- that's how I got my copy several years ago. Susie Stephenson SLAIS/UBC Vancouver mss@unixg.ubc.ca On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Karen Lane wrote: > Can anyone tell me where I might find a copy of > > Knight, G. Norman. _Indexing, the Art of_. London: > George Allen & Unwin, 1979. ISBN 0-04-029002-6 > > I've borrowed a copy from the university library, and > I would like to own a copy for myself. Searching the > Web hasn't yielded any copies. > > Anyone? > > [Note: This same message was posted to Copyediting-L, > so apologies if you had to read it twice.] > > Karen Lane > klane@digital.net > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:44:13 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Elizabeth M. Moys" Subject: Re: Indexing, the Art of In-Reply-To: <878274173.10494.0@listserv.cuny.edu> In message <878274173.10494.0@listserv.cuny.edu>, Karen Lane writes >Can anyone tell me where I might find a copy of > >Knight, G. Norman. _Indexing, the Art of_. London: > George Allen & Unwin, 1979. ISBN 0-04-029002-6 > >I've borrowed a copy from the university library, and >I would like to own a copy for myself. Searching the >Web hasn't yielded any copies. > >Anyone? > Karen, Knight's book has been out of print for several years. I am afraid that libraries, or conceivably secondhand bookshops, are your only hope! The Society of Indexers has tried to contact Knight's executors/family, with a view to some sort of reprint, but with no success. Many of us, over here, still read it and use it as a basis for much of our work. Sorry!, Betty ==================================================================== Elizabeth M. Moys email: betty@moys.demon.co.uk Phone & Fax: +44 (0)1959-534530 Hengist, Badgers Road, Badgers Mount, Sevenoaks, Kent, TN14 7AT, England ==================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 13:26:23 -0800 Reply-To: mclaughb@cgs.edu Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bonny Mclaughlin Organization: cgs.edu Subject: Re: Indexing, the Art of Amazon.com lists it as "hard to find" but says that a used copy might be found in one to three months. Karen Lane wrote: > Can anyone tell me where I might find a copy of > > Knight, G. Norman. _Indexing, the Art of_. London: > George Allen & Unwin, 1979. ISBN 0-04-029002-6 > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:34:43 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jillbarret@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Triple index question Martha, In my experience, multiple indexes are a LOT more work, especially in scholarly works that are heavily loaded with author citations and footnotes. It takes a lot more time to create multiple indexes. I either have to go INCREDIBLY slow through the text once to get everything carefully documented, or make 2 passes through the book. Both approaches are time consuming. (For me, going through it twice is USUALLY the better method. The first time through I pick up entries for the author index and (in my line of work) scripture references index. The second time through I concentrate on the subject entries. If I try to do everything the first time through I find I have a lot more editing work to do at the end.) Besides requiring more work to compile, it also takes longer to format, edit and proof read 3 indexes than one. As for fees, I start with a per page fee of at least $3.50 and add $100 for each additional index. Believe me, you will earn every penny of it! It is more complex and more work, but I always like the big ticket these jobs bring! :-) BTW, I'm in the throes of completing a 4 index job at the moment! Can you believe it?! This one has author, subject, and scriptural indexes plus an index of foreign words (in this case mostly Hebrew.) Sometimes I think this job will never end! Each additional index makes the job that much more complex. Don't be afraid to ask for a higher fee and be willing to confidently defend your asking price. If they still balk you can always negotiate a little. Knocking down the fee a little, if you have to, should satisfy the hesitant publisher and still leave you with decent pay - provided you've started with a high enough asking price. Don't cut yourself short unless they absolutely refuse to pay you more and you desparately want the work! Also, I enter all the entries into one file initially, tagging each entry for the index it belongs to. Then, when I'm ready to edit and format the individual indexes I use Macrex's strip utility to separate them. Definitely take advantage of Cindex's equivalent feature, whatever it is called. Keeping them all in one file during the data entry stage means it is easier because I don't have to go in and out of separate files. It's especially valuable when I'm going back through the second time and find something I want to add to previous indexes. It's all right there in that one file and I can keep on moving. Good luck! Jill Jill Barrett Indexing & Editorial Services (specializing in religion titles) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:48:21 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLF EdServ Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: temporary page numbers Hello all, I'm about to do a good sized book with temporary page numbers. The pages will be number according to chapter, ie., 1.1-1.15, 2.1-2.18, etc. I'm using Cindex, so I can change page numbers automatically. My question is, in your esteemed opinions, would it be easier to do this change if I indexed each chapter separately? Or should I just go ahead and create the whole index and change the pages during the final edit? This is the first time that I've had a book this large with all substitute page numbers, so I'm not sure which way to go. Thanks, Leslie Frank (having hot dogs this afternoon) Words Indexing and Editing ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 09:03:52 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Australian Society of Indexers Editor Subject: ICQ chat id - wwwalker Hi Should anyone out there wish to communicate with me as Editor/Webmaster at AusSI, my ICQ id is wwwalker. To get ICQ, download from http://www.miribalis.com It is about 1MB and comes in Windows and Mac and soon UNIX. It allows you to chat by sending messages back and forth in real time. It allows conferencing too! Very good collaborative tool. I've had rave reviews from colleagues about it. My ID is 4631678. It alerts you to others logged on so you can chat to them or send emails etc. Bye Dwight ------- Dwight Walker Webmaster and Editor Australian Society of Indexers, 6/333 Old South Head Rd, Bondi NSW 2026 Australia +61-2-91304206 (h) +61-(0)412-405727 (mobile), fax +61-2-97772058 URL: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:13:45 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Knoeller Subject: Re: Foreign articles ALl, Over my lunch hour I went to a book store and pulled several French language books off the shelf -- none of the books I looked at used the article at all in their indexes -- it was simply dropped from the entry. This is hardly a thorough sampling, just my 0.02. Julie Marjanovic Mirjana wrote: > > Hi Craig, > > INMHO, french language does not stand that kind of inversion. Could you > leave the article at the begining but for the sort, configure your > software to ignore Le, La or L'? > > > Craig, you asked whether the inversion of the article in the French title > > L'aristocratie en Amerique would result in > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Mirjana Marjanovic - (Martic) ~~~@ > marjanom@ere.Umontreal.ca ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > LA VIE EST BELLE -- ZIVOT JE LEP > (IF YOU WANNA MAKE IT THAT WAY) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:53:28 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Triple index question In a message dated 97-10-31 17:41:32 EST, you write: << I never charge extra for separate indexes, since it's simply a matter of posting entries to more than one file; the rate depends on the complexity of the material. The only other factor to take into consideration in rate setting is that editing of the final index may take longer since you need to edit/verify each index separately. >> I cannot it this way. I have done multiple indexes in the past and have not been required to do any lately. BUT, I get into the "subject mode" or "author mode" and then have a tendency to miss entries for the other index. So I go through the material twice. I usually do the subject index first and then the author indexes, company indexes, etc. later. Depending on the size of the book, I charge between $100 and $300 for additional indexes. For this size book, I would probably charge between $100 and $200 for each additional index (my concern would be the number of additional entries, which would depend on the type of book involved). Leslie Frank Words Indexing and Editing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:35:25 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Paper Pushers Subject: Imbedded indexing Hola, Index-Lers-- Can a kind soul who has experience with imbedded indexing either send or direct me to a description of same? Under what circumstances is this kind of indexing used? Is special software needed? I've been creating traditional indexes for CD-Rom science texts and am wondering if there's an established paperless method I could be using instead. (My editor is equally clueless.) Apologies if this has been discussed recently on the list...I've been out of the loop for a long while. I'd prefer you reply to me directly. Many thanks! --Sudsy =============================== Paper Pushers Editorial Services =============================== ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:54:48 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLF EdServ Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: in-house contacts In a message dated 97-10-31 19:25:27 EST, you write: << It seems perfectly natural and comfortable to me to make this request; in fact, I've offered to send along extra copies of my resume, biz cards, samples, etc. I've almost never gotten a negative response. In fact, I've had editors request that I do this, because they keep a freelance file in a central location for all editors to use. >> I agree with Sonsie. I think editors are very comfortable handing out names, adding your name to their database, etc. I think that if you feel comfortable asking for names, that may be one of the most effective ways to go. Being added to a database doesn't allow you to make the personal contact. You have to sit and wait for someone to call you. One aside. I just learned about a freelancers database at a large publisher for whom I used to work. The database was added after I left. Apparently the editors were very touchy and snarky. If one slight thing was wrong with anyone's work, many of the editors added nasty notes about the freelancer to the databases. Of course, jobs well done were expected, and so positive recommendations were seldom added. My source for this information explained that everyone there was so put upon and pressured, that they looked for everywhere else to lay blame and stress. Needless to say, no feedback was ever given to the freelancers. I've known a lot of good freelancers who ended up not working for this companyevern again and wondered why they were never called back. Apparently the black list got quite large! Hmmmm. I know that isn't the case with everyone, but it was not inspiring news to hear being on this end of the freelancers' databases. Leslie Frank Words Indexing and Editing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 22:15:15 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: W: TO field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: ROBJRICH Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Librarian's pot o' gold - Web site to the max! Hi, all - This site is wonderful! Check it out!!! ****************** LIBRARIAN'S POT O' GOLD (All the Encyclopedias and Dictionaries on the Internet) http://www.sau.edu/cwis/internet/wild/Refdesk/Encyclo/encindex.htm Bob Richardson