From: SMTP%"LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu" 1-JUL-1998 14:25:04.11 To: CIRJA02 CC: Subj: File: "INDEX-L LOG9804D" Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 13:42:57 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9804D" To: CIRJA02@GSVMS1.CC.GASOU.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:12:36 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dwight Walker Subject: WWWalker course notes not book Hi Sorry. I made a mistake before. I meant to say you could have access to the Web indexing course notes for $50 AUD (around $35 US). If you want to take the course you can pay the difference. Olivia is not doing the book due to health problems I overlooked. Dwight ---------------------------------------------------------- Dwight Walker, Sydney, Australia tel +61-2-98960286, mob 0412-405727, fax +61-2-97772058 ICQ No. 4631678, handle: wwwalker (www.mirabilis.com) WWWalker Web Development: http://www.wwwalker.com.au Australian Society of Indexers: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi Sydney Linux Users Group http://www.slug.org.au Waverley Randwick Philharmonic http://www.wwwalker.com.au/wrps.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 12:43:12 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Sutherland Subject: Re: economics of Web indexing The message <199804220005.BAA12638@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> from Nmbenton contains these words: > In a message dated 98-04-21 19:40:17 EDT, linda.sutherland@ZETNET.CO.UK > writes: > << In one of my posts to the "Web indexing - my viewpoint" thread I said > that I admire your initiative and enthusiasm. I do mean that. I wish > you well in your venture, I'll follow its progress with interest, and > if circumstances allow I may well become a customer at some time in > the future. But, like yourself, I have to try to make hard-headed > business decisions, and my judgment is that at present the > circumstances don't allow. >> > I adore reading all the stories nowadays about the people who put a few > pennies in the stock market and left them there. Now they are millionaires. > Please don't put nothing into the concept of web indexing. A lot is too much, > but put a little in! If it doesn't grow in money, you'll be able to tell your > grandchildren, "I was part of it!" The real goldmine is the knowledge you > gain. Put a little in, and like a financial wiz, follow the investment! > Unlike a financial downturn, no economic developments can take what you learn > away! I fully agree. But I currently have more spare time than spare cash, and that's why investing time (in self-education) rather than money looks the better gamble for me, at least for the time being. -- Linda Sutherland linda.sutherland@zetnet.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 08:34:33 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: Indexing resume/brochure to Human Resources Depts. The few times I have sent my resume to the HR department I have gotten back form letters indicating I would not be considered for employment at the firm, this despite my clearly stating I was looking for freelance work. I'm not sure humans are even involved in the process. Craig Brown On 4/21/98 20:54 Manjit K. Sahai wrote: >Hi everyone, > >I just wanted to ask all the experienced indexers if they ever send their >resume/brochure etc. to the human resources depts. of the big >publishers/presses. > >Whenever I call the big publishers for getting the name of editor to send my >resume, the receptionist always tells me to mail my package to the human >resources dept and then they will forward to the appropriate editor. I am >also told to mention on my cover letter that I just want freelance work. I >always tell her that I am NOT looking for a job, I just want freelance work. >Needless to say, I am not getting any luck with those kinds of >receptionists. my questions are.... > >1....should I send my package to the human resources dept. and wait what >happens. > >2....should I send one package to human resources dept. and send the 2nd >package to the managing/production editor on my own? > >3....has any of you gotton any project just by sending the package to just >personnel dept? > >Any help would be greatly appreciated. > >Manjit K.Sahai >RAM Indexing Services > ========================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing (314)352-9094 www.i1.net/~lastword ========================================== ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 09:45:44 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: not all is lost - step up to Web indexing being written Sorry if this is a duplicate. I was composing it and the link dropped. When I reconnected, it looked like it had been sent, but I wasn't sure. At 11:50 AM 4/22/98 +1000, Dwight wrote: > >Like they say, every difficulty is an opportunity or 'every cloud has a >silver lining' - that's the beauty of being in small business - change with >circumstances. So I am not giving up on you guys yet. You obviously need >some more hand-holding a Ya know, Dwight, you might have better luck with this if you stopped talking down to your audience. I've been following this thread and you have been coming across like the Great Ozzie Hope come to rouse us benighted masses from our collective lethargy. I for one am interested, but currently working 12-14 hour days, have been for over a week, and will be for another two weeks. It's not "hand-holding" I need. Dick (maybe taking things too seriously) Evans ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 07:58:00 -0600 Reply-To: aelser@uswest.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Art Elser Organization: U S WEST Communications Subject: Re: economics of Web indexing Hi Dwight, I'm normally a lurker on this news group and really a tech writer by trade. One factor that Dwight may not have considered is the maturity, or lack thereof, of the Web industry at this point. I see it as analogous to the Desktop Publishing (DTP) business back in the mid to late 80s. At that point, companies were looking to reduce the cost of documentation through computerization and automation, and they used DTP as a way to get rid of: Editors--the software has a spell checker and grammar checker right? Typesetters--can't we just download the files to the laser printer or typesetter? Illustrators--haven't we supplied the writers with a graphics package? Writers--can't the engineers can use the DTP software to write the docs? All this led, as you can probably surmise to a dreadful lack of usefulness and quality in technical documentation. Bill Horton, one of the gurus in technical communication, quips that in those early days many brochures and newsletters looked like ransom notes. I think we're in that same position today with the Web. Companies are more interested in getting the latest tools to convert their documents into Web-displayable formats than they are worried about how good or bad the results are. The idea is to establish a presence on the Web quickly. Little if any thought is given to good document design for the medium. There are sooooo many really bad Web sites and online documentation efforts because of this. Why else would a favorite Web site be devoted to Web sites that suck? And if people aren't worried about the document design, what makes you think they are going to worry about whether the index is good--or even exists? This is a sorry state, to be sure, but I think it's temporary. If the DTP "revolution" is a good model on which to base future Web directions, and here your mileage may vary, then we'll eventually get around to good document design supported by good indexes. But it will take time. People will soon tire of plinking around on a Web site to find stuff, being amazed at the totally unnecessary, but whizzy graphics. They will want to find their information quickly, and that's where good indexing software--and of course knowing how to index--will play a vital role. Someone responsing to a response to your post said that she has some time now and will devote it to self-education. That's always a good idea, and learning how the BotB index differs from a web index, might just be a profitable study topic. When those who are on the Web for economic reasons become aware that people can't find the info they need quickly enough and drop their site for another one, then good document design and indexing will suddenly be a "surprise" to them as the answer to their questions. The emphasis will shift from the "right" tool to the right design and access strategies. I guess the strategy for indexers is study hard, keep up with the field, and keep the faith. :-) BTW, it's rapidly Springing here in the Rockies. The snow fields are melting, the summer birds are migrating through, and flowers are starting to poke their beautiful faces through the earth. It makes me a bit sad to realize that our Aussie friends are getting ready for winter. art ================================================================== Art Elser (303) 965-4825 aelser@uswest.com Information Developer, U S WEST There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts. Illusions, Richard Bach =================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:20:55 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman Subject: Re: Indexing resume/brochure to Human Resources Depts. Send your resume/credentials to Human Resources? Take it from someone with plenty of experience ..... it's useless. It leads nowhere. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 09:19:16 -0600 Reply-To: aelser@uswest.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Art Elser Organization: U S WEST Communications Subject: Re: Indexing resume/brochure to Human Resources Depts. Janet Perlman wrote: >>Send your resume/credentials to Human Resources? Take it from someone with plenty of experience ..... it's useless. It leads nowhere.<< Janet, did you mean sending your resume to HR is useless and leads nowhere, or that HR is useless and leads nowhere, or both. :-)) art ================================================================== Art Elser (303) 965-4825 aelser@uswest.com Information Developer, U S WEST There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts. Illusions, Richard Bach =================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:24:46 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barry Koffler Subject: swing dancing in Seattle - Carol I lost your address In-Reply-To: <199804212024.QAA08681@ulster.net> Carol - please email me, I lost your address. List, sorry for the irrelevant words here. -Barry oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo barkof@ulster.net Barry Koffler mid-Hudson Valley, NY the FeatherSite at http://www.feathersite.com/ lead me not into temptation . . . I can find it myself. oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:58:36 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Erika Millen Subject: Re[2]: Indexing resume/brochure to Human Resources Depts. On 4/21/98 20:54 Manjit K. Sahai wrote: >I just wanted to ask all the experienced indexers if they ever send their >resume/brochure etc. to the human resources depts. of the big >publishers/presses. The HR departments in very large publishers are usually too far removed from the editorial branches to know where to forward your information. (Keep in mind that HR is also dealing with production, sales, foreign rights, public relations, distribution centers, etc.) Instead, you might want to check the credits page of a book (usually buried in with all the copyright information) published by that company. You can often find a list of editors' names... a managing editor or editorial assistant will usually be able to forward your resume to the appropriate person. Erika Millen Indianapolis ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:19:14 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Robert A. Saigh" Subject: Re: Indexing resume/brochure to Human Resources Depts. To all concerned: I agree. HR departments are perfect for non-specialized and entry-level jobs. Our job is neither and, therefore, HR departments are not useful. Period. rob fugleman@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:37:29 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Osp Viggosdottir Subject: Re: why Aussies do make many commercially viable products In-Reply-To: <199804212017.UAA22104@syrpa.khi.is> Hi. (Dwight:) >I guess a little known fact is that Australia only has 18 million population >and the market out here is pretty small. Most of our best inventions have >gone off shore because the domestic market is too canny to spend much (may >be our Scottish forebears ;). As a result any commercially viable products >made by Australians like INXS usually go much better overseas financially. I >am finding the same thing. And the nice thing about the Internet is that I >don't have to leave Australia to do this - I can do the courses and sell >software over the Internet at low cost. (Do you see the commercial sense >now? Aussie resourcefulness with Internet low cost distribution adds up to >an extraordinary opportunity to make a buck.) > >I wonder if this has happened to remote Canadian areas too? I don't know about Canada, but ... you see this happening in Iceland (total population of 270.000!), good inventions going off shore. The Internet is changing that, though, companies are selling software for supermarkets to Japan - through the net! No go-betweens, just online marketing, selling and servicing. The same will undoubtedly happen in web-indexing, it's not WHERE YOU ARE but WHAT YOU DO/OFFER that counts. The best part about belonging to a small nation, whether it is in Australia or Iceland, is that people tend to be "internationally minded". They are used to being an (unknown) minority wherever they go, having to adjust to others. They learn the basics of marketing while growing up: Do it the client's way. Regards, Osp Viggosdottir P.s. BTW I have met people that confused Iceland with Australia!! - You know, a BIG island... ! 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0 Vsp Viggssdsttir osp@khi.is 0 0 tilvonandi bskasafnsfrfpingur [hm] 0 0 Bskasafni Kennarahasksla Mslands vs. 581 4390 0 0 sirsvip: skraning, hvnnun gagnasafna, indexar 0 0 heima: Supurhslum 16, 1-2 smmi 557 5613 0 0 111 Reykjavmk boptfki 846 3936 0 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0 - Bskvitip verpur m budduna latip Vsp, 1997 0 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:41:55 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Thomas Woody Subject: Unsubscribe Please delete my name from this listserv ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:42:47 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Erika Millen Subject: HTML indexes Does anyone have experience with or information about software packages that will convert embedded index entries to an online format? Jan Wright discusses these in the April 1997 issue of The Indexer, but I'd like to find out more about specific packages that are available. Also, I'd love any input about time requirements for HTML indexing... how much longer does it take to prepare an index in online format? Thanks in advance, Erika Millen Indianapolis ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 15:29:47 -0700 Reply-To: kpaparchontis@worldnet.att.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kathy Paparchontis Subject: Re: Help! once more If I am indexing a booklet, with 2 pages printed on an 8 1/2 x 11 inch piece of paper--like folding a piece of paper and each page appears on half, and the pages are single- spaced, do I charge for one or two pages? Thanks in advance and thanks again for all the help the list has given me. Kathy P. ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 18:11:58 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: THANKS: Font Madness & Addendum As soon as I complete this note I will push the magic button and copies of my famous bookmark will, the gods willing, be sent to all of you who have requested copies. [Any further requests will, of course, be honored.] Thanks to everyone on the List for your interest and support. Besides the USA I received requests from the UK, Iceland and Germany. This had been a truly uplifting Internet experience for me [I know that sounds like an ad for something in some tabloid]. Support is often important to me personally since, while not exactly a recluse, I have rather rarified interests and a small circle of friends. This has been as much fun as the broadcasting sessions I used to do monthly for a local FM station [I'm really a broadcast & recording engineer by profession]. Each two hour show featured two usually quite different musical groups, and required LIVE mixing of between 10 and 32 microphones. The 2 or 3 other engineers and our producer really looked forward to this exciting joint excercise each month. Alas, after eight years of the show we were cancelled last year. As you may see, albeit by remote control, I am finding this group an important aspect of my life. It's a privilege, actually. Thanks again. Blast! I almost forgot the ADDENDUM During a chat with one person on the list I suggested a few sources for HTML related material. This may be a replay of material that I posted last year, but newcomers might be interested [NO IT'S NOT ANOTHER BOOKMARK EXTRAVAGANZA]. Of the three sites shown here, Dr. Joe Burns has an amazing assortment of material available, including tutorials, FAQs, free images, Java Scripts, and whatnot. His bio is fun to read as well. Lively. http://www.htmlgoodies.com/ This site links to several other good sources, one of them in the spirit of Burns but by a different author. One link was inactive just now. http://www.ecis.com/webguide.html This site is problemattic: the last update appears to have been on 22 Deember 1997, and the author Kevin Werbach only includes HTML version 3.0 material. I posted a note to him suggesting that since version 4.0 has been around for a while that he update his information. I suppose its possible for the site to be running by itself without human attendance? http://werbach.com/barebones/ Cheers, Dave T. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 12:46:07 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Indexing resume/brochure to Human Resources Depts. In-Reply-To: <199804220401.XAA18606@mixcom.mixcom.com> >Whenever I call the big publishers for getting the name of editor to send my >resume, the receptionist always tells me to mail my package to the human >resources dept and then they will forward to the appropriate editor. I am >also told to mention on my cover letter that I just want freelance work. I >always tell her that I am NOT looking for a job, I just want freelance work. >Needless to say, I am not getting any luck with those kinds of >receptionists. my questions are.... No, as you've already surmised, Human Resources is just for employees, not independent contractors. I ask for, and send stuff to, the managing editor and/or the production editor. > >1....should I send my package to the human resources dept. and wait what >happens. > >2....should I send one package to human resources dept. and send the 2nd >package to the managing/production editor on my own? > >3....has any of you gotton any project just by sending the package to just >personnel dept? > I would stay clean away from HR or personnel. Your letter may or may not make it to the person who really needs to see it, and if it doesn't, you won't have any way of knowing. I would send it directly to the editorial dept. In fact, if the receptionist sounds iffy when you ask for the managing editor, just ask to be connected to anyone in the editorial dept. Once you get there, any editor you speak to will almost certainly know who is responsible for hiring freelancers. Good luck. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 12:34:02 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Web indexing - my viewpoint In-Reply-To: <199804220401.XAA18606@mixcom.mixcom.com> >I'm sure I would understand more if I knew what all the terminology >meant in plain English (or American) (or Australian). Margaret (and others): There are tons of dictionaries of computer terms around (also dictionaries of technical terms generally). Although new terms come into use daily, there's a core of stuff that remains constant enough that dictionaries are still useful. I happen to have, and like, the _21st Dictionary of Computer Terms_ (Princeton Language Institute). It has core stuff like "encryption," "parallel port," etc. But it is ancient (by computer standards), published in 1994, so it doesn't have newer terms like "HTML" or "ICQ." So for those I look in some newer computer manuals on my shelf. For your immediate need: Web browser: a computer program (e.g., Netscape, Internet Explorer) that allows you to access Web sites HTML editing tools: tools for writing and editing documents that contain HTML (HyperText Markup Language) codes; these codes allow Web browsers to interpret and format Web pages for you so they look decent on your computer screen ICQ chat setup: don't know what ICQ stands for (perhaps the I stands for interactive), but it's a way of allowing people to talk to each other in real time on their computers; that is, when somebody types a comment, everybody who's "chatting" with that person sees it right away and can respond (somebody please correct me if I'm wrong; I haven't done it myself) Hope that helps. But if you are feeling overwhelmed, I certainly recommend that you get a dictionary and just look up unfamiliar terms as you go along. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:02:17 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: HTML indexes and online indexes In-Reply-To: <199804222149.RAA21092@camel23.mindspring.com> Help authoring packages such as RoboHelp and Doc-To-Help will convert embedded index entries in Word RTF files to online formats such as WinHelp. Information about such packages can be researched from: http://www.stc.org/society/pics/online/hyperviews/ Adobe Acrobat will take PageMaker files or FrameMaker files with embedded entries and with previously-generated print-style indexes and create online files with hyperactive indexes. Frame can also do this without Acrobat in its own proprietary format. Information about Acrobat can be found at http://www.adobe.com/prodindex/acrobat/readstep.html How much more time does it take to create an HTML index? Well, if you have a tool that will automatically convert a Cindex file to HTML, such as the the one put out by Leverage technologies, and you have a simple index to do for basic pages, it is only the amount of time it takes to type in a URL instead of a page number. That's just a little more time. But that is HTML indexing in its simplest format. To do a more complex piece, one that relies on figuring out menus leading to content, understanding navigation, determining how files appear in frames when you jump to them, having you rather than the client put in the bookmarks in the html files, determining file structure within folders or directories, finalizing file names with the client, and other matters will of course take more time. One good estimate for determining online format indexing time constraints is to ask the client how many person-hours have gone into the project thus far - your time will probably come out to about one-tenth of that total time. Charge hourly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jan Wright At 04:42 PM 4/22/98 -0500, you wrote: > Does anyone have experience with or information about software > packages that will convert embedded index entries to an online > format? Jan Wright discusses these in the April 1997 issue of > The Indexer, but I'd like to find out more about specific > packages that are available. > > Also, I'd love any input about time requirements for HTML > indexing... how much longer does it take to prepare an index in > online format? > > Thanks in advance, > > Erika Millen > Indianapolis > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:43:14 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: beauties, well-baked Well. The index for _The Stuffed Owl: An Anthology of Bad Verse_ was not oversold to me. A friend noted that the index was funnier than the verse. I just got a mail-order copy and am delighted to share some entries: Beauties, well-baked Cheese, cheshire, by whom digestible Elephant, not amphibious Newspaper editors, not always truthful Pea, not self-supporting Tapeworm, lonely but prolific It is a creative index. Concluding the "Preface," a marvel of scholarly parody preceding an "epic poem" introducting the actual verses, is the statement: "It is hoped that serious students will welcome the addition of a Subject Index." The muse could not be abus'd In poesy parsing by the dextrous Dauntless indextress! Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 08:55:52 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Subject: Re: Web indexing - the reality? Despite all the enthusiasm expressed on the list recently about indexing the Internet, I think it would be fair to say that there is much hope, but not very much evidence of work (paid work) actually being done on the Internet by Index-Lers. Indexing the Internet covers many types of activity, and perhaps we are not ideally suited to doing all of it. Web bibliographies need to be created, but the people doing them are those with subject knowledge - either subject librarians with institutional backing (e.g. the winners of the AusSI indexing prize) or professionals (including volunteers, like those from the indexing societies). Most Internet users would have bookmarks of sites useful to them, and other sites recommended by friends and magazines - an information specialist might not be needed. One Australian librarian sells floppy discs containing addresses of medical sites so perhaps there is some room for entrepreneurs, but until e-commerce is feasible there are enormous marketing and sales expenses involved for little reward. Maybe some jobs currently done by researchers will transfer largely to the Web, but they won't necessarily be done by indexers. Maybe some Web pages need indexing, and maybe freelance indexers will get this work. So far much of this indexing has been done by volunteers; I suspect other people will either not believe there is a need for better access to individual sites, or will rely on keyword searching (which I believe would work OK in many cases, combined with a good classification scheme). Some indexes created for normal print products will make their way to the Web, and some materials on the Web like books will have traditional type indexes. I have created an 8-year index to a periodical. The index is about to be loaded on the Web. I find this exciting because it will increase the potential readership of the index enormously, and will make it so easy to update. However I do not think this can be called Internet Indexing, although it is an index on the Internet. Finally Web sites need metadata as Kevin has discussed. Quality indexing terms (and descriptive terms such as authors and organisations) need to be added at the time a site is created, so that automatic search engines such as AltaVista will give access to the sites under appropriate terms. Certainly librarians and others could have a role here, although I am not sure of the practicalities. I can't imagine the creator of ONE site ringing a freelancer to come and add 10 or 20 words to it. Again I suspect that many will just do it themselves, and although we might have the same sort of variation as from user-provided keywords on journal articles, perhaps that will be OK. If those are the words the site-creator uses to describe it, then maybe those are the words the site-searcher will type into the search engine. I think we might have a more important role as teachers of searching than creators of terms. Well, I've stuck my neck out again as Devil's Advocate. I certainly wish every indexer well in their search for Internet work. I am aware that those first in will in some way blaze the trail for the rest of us, and make our way easier. For this reason I watch the AusSI Web Indexing prize and read this discussion list with interest. But I have to admit that for myself no opportunity has yet leapt out at me and said "This is it". There are things about traditional indexing that I treasure, and these do not yet exist in Web opportunities. One of the great satisfactions for me when indexing a book is to finally finish the index and send it off, to know that it is complete (as it will ever be). I also like working with books, which are coherent carefully constructed works by experts who care about a field. This is true about some of the Internet, but there is really a very different feel and approach to indexing the Internet and indexing a book. I'm glad there'll still be some of what I love for a while. Glenda. =================================== Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Indexing, PC Training, Web Page Authoring http://www.users.bigpond.com/Diagonal Diagonal@bigpond.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:20:11 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wilson, Alan (DPL)" Subject: Re: Web indexing - the reality? As the 1996 winner of the AUSSI Web Indexing Prize and a judge for the 1997 version, could I add a small contribution in support of Glenda's comments? It seems to me that there are various possible definitions of "Web indexing", including: 1. Creating an index to the content of a single Web site or group of Web sites (analogous to creating a back-of-the-book index). One of the problems here is that the indexer needs to comprehend the site(s), which, unless he/she is also the creator/maintainer of the site(s), is not as easy as comprehending the book to be indexed. Another is that, at any time after (or even during) the indexing process, the content and/or structure of the site(s) may change - this does not happen with a book once it has been printed. 2. Creating an index of Web sites which have something in common with each other, i.e. an organised list of sites (analogous to creating a list of books on a particluar subject, conventionally called subject bibliography). 3. Making available on the Web an index to one or more printed documents. This is not really Web indexing, but Web publishing of an index. In my assessment of entries for the 1997 AUSSI Web Indexing Prize I disregarded some entries because in my opinion they were not Web indexes and said: "I suggest that, if this competition is held again, a tighter definition of a "web index" should be adopted. I would suggest something along the lines of: A web page or set of web pages containing an ordered list (or series of lists) of pointers (words or phrases) providing links to information available on the host WWW site and/or elsewhere the WWW." Already I am inclined to think that this definition is too broad, encompassing as it does indexes in the first two categories above. My point is that we need to understand and agree on which of the various possible types of Web indexing we have in mind before we can engage in fruitful discussion on topics like "how do we do it" and "how does it differ from dealing with print material". Those who are tentative about taking on Web indexing will not be convinced to venture into the unknown if those of us who have been there do not make it clear what we are talking about. Otherwise we serve mainly to confuse. I have a full-time (non-indexing) position at present and, like Dwight, other interests, so am not immediately worrying about how to break into the field or make a living at it. But, I'm always on the lookout for opportunities in this area. Like Glenda I haven't notice the "big one" yet! Alan Wilson Director, Information Resources Management Department of the Parliamentary Library Parliament House, Canberra, ACT 2600, Australia --------------------------------------------------------------------- Phone: (02) 6277 2570 Fax: (02) 6277 2622 Email: Alan.Wilson@aph.gov.au DPL website: http://www.aph.gov.au/library/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne [SMTP:Diagonal@BIGPOND.COM] > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 1998 8:56 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Web indexing - the reality? > > Despite all the enthusiasm expressed on the list recently about indexing > the > Internet, I think it would be fair to say that there is much hope, but not > very much evidence of work (paid work) actually being done on the Internet > by Index-Lers. > > Indexing the Internet covers many types of activity, and perhaps we are > not > ideally suited to doing all of it. > > Web bibliographies need to be created, but the people doing them are those > with subject knowledge - either subject librarians with institutional > backing (e.g. the winners of the AusSI indexing prize) or professionals > (including volunteers, like those from the indexing societies). Most > Internet users would have bookmarks of sites useful to them, and other > sites > recommended by friends and magazines - an information specialist might not > be needed. One Australian librarian sells floppy discs containing > addresses > of medical sites so perhaps there is some room for entrepreneurs, but > until > e-commerce is feasible there are enormous marketing and sales expenses > involved for little reward. Maybe some jobs currently done by researchers > will transfer largely to the Web, but they won't necessarily be done by > indexers. > > Maybe some Web pages need indexing, and maybe freelance indexers will get > this work. So far much of this indexing has been done by volunteers; I > suspect other people will either not believe there is a need for better > access to individual sites, or will rely on keyword searching (which I > believe would work OK in many cases, combined with a good classification > scheme). > > Some indexes created for normal print products will make their way to the > Web, and some materials on the Web like books will have traditional type > indexes. I have created an 8-year index to a periodical. The index is > about > to be loaded on the Web. I find this exciting because it will increase the > potential readership of the index enormously, and will make it so easy to > update. However I do not think this can be called Internet Indexing, > although it is an index on the Internet. > > Finally Web sites need metadata as Kevin has discussed. Quality indexing > terms (and descriptive terms such as authors and organisations) need to be > added at the time a site is created, so that automatic search engines such > as AltaVista will give access to the sites under appropriate terms. > Certainly librarians and others could have a role here, although I am not > sure of the practicalities. I can't imagine the creator of ONE site > ringing > a freelancer to come and add 10 or 20 words to it. Again I suspect that > many > will just do it themselves, and although we might have the same sort of > variation as from user-provided keywords on journal articles, perhaps that > will be OK. If those are the words the site-creator uses to describe it, > then maybe those are the words the site-searcher will type into the search > engine. I think we might have a more important role as teachers of > searching > than creators of terms. > > Well, I've stuck my neck out again as Devil's Advocate. I certainly wish > every indexer well in their search for Internet work. I am aware that > those > first in will in some way blaze the trail for the rest of us, and make our > way easier. For this reason I watch the AusSI Web Indexing prize and read > this discussion list with interest. But I have to admit that for myself no > opportunity has yet leapt out at me and said "This is it". There are > things > about traditional indexing that I treasure, and these do not yet exist in > Web opportunities. One of the great satisfactions for me when indexing a > book is to finally finish the index and send it off, to know that it is > complete (as it will ever be). I also like working with books, which are > coherent carefully constructed works by experts who care about a field. > This > is true about some of the Internet, but there is really a very different > feel and approach to indexing the Internet and indexing a book. I'm glad > there'll still be some of what I love for a while. > > Glenda. > > > =================================== > Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne > Indexing, PC Training, Web Page Authoring > http://www.users.bigpond.com/Diagonal > Diagonal@bigpond.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 18:01:04 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dwight Walker Subject: truce - hands off web indexing ok? I am not going to contribute for a while. I've got make a living you know ;) I have had a fair few enquiries which has been great. I am going to arrange with Lori Lathrop for a Birds of a Feather at Seattle on Web indexing if I can. Stay tuned. I'm glad none of this has been personal. Just gets a bit close to home. No we Down Underers are not a threat to the American Way of Life... just cheeky little fox terriers from a long way south... Dwight ---------------------------------------------------------- Dwight Walker, Sydney, Australia tel +61-2-98960286, mob 0412-405727, fax +61-2-97772058 ICQ No. 4631678, handle: wwwalker (www.mirabilis.com) WWWalker Web Development: http://www.wwwalker.com.au Australian Society of Indexers: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi Sydney Linux Users Group http://www.slug.org.au Waverley Randwick Philharmonic http://www.wwwalker.com.au/wrps.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:58:35 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: AllWrite N Subject: Re: beauties, well-baked Pam, PLEASE tell those of us who know nothing of this book how and where to obtain a copy? (listed as Reader, clueless?) Thanks for the chuckle and info, Nancy Noyes All Write ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:30:57 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Iris I." Subject: Unsubscribe Please remove my name from the e-mail list. Thanks! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 07:29:13 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Finding: beauties, well-baked In-Reply-To: <199804231402.HAA17014@powergrid.electriciti.com> The book is _The Stuffed Owl: An Anthology of Bad Verse_ selected and arranged by D. B. Wyndham Lewis and Charles Lee. To my knowledge, it's out of print. I recommend folks to check with a used book dealer specializing in searches. There are used book searchs on the WWW. A good resource is ABE (I think Advanced Book Exchange): http://www.abebooks.com/ My paperback edition (1962, Capricorn) is pre-ISBN. The volume was originally published in 1930 by Coward McCann, Inc. (highly likely UK). Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:32:26 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cliff Urr Subject: Big One? (Was: Web indexing - the reality?) In-Reply-To: <199804230518.BAA04716@mail1.monumental.com> >Like Glenda I haven't notice the "big one" yet! A sincere question - what would be our definition of a "big one"? Also, what would be the functional equivalent of a "big one" for book indexers? It seems to me the latter have at best a series of "little ones" (i.e. individual titles) which, altogether, might comprise one big one. But besides this, what would be a big one for independent indexers (as distinct from hives of them a la big companies such as Info Access)? Seems to me there are sites that could use hives and others that could use one independent. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Cliff Urr, MLS National Child Care Information Center (NCCIC) Vienna, VA 703-938-6555 curr@mnsinc.com http://nccic.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:04:52 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JCox122202 Subject: Re: Finding: beauties, well-baked You can check www.mxbf.com, www.interloc.com, www.bibliofind.com as well as www.abebooks.com for out-of-print books. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:11:46 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Morey, Diane L." Subject: Re: THANKS: Font Madness & Addendum > -----Original Message----- > From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott [SMTP:75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM] > Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 1998 6:12 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: THANKS: Font Madness & Addendum > > As soon as I complete this note I will push the magic button and > copies of my famous bookmark will, the gods willing, be sent to > all of you who have requested copies. [Any further requests will, > of course, be honored.] > > Thanks to everyone on the List for your interest and support. > Besides the USA I received requests from the UK, Iceland and Germany. > This had been a truly uplifting Internet experience for me [I know > that sounds like an ad for something in some tabloid]. Support is > often important to me personally since, while not exactly a recluse, > I have rather rarified interests and a small circle of friends. > This has been as much fun as the broadcasting sessions I used to > do monthly for a local FM station [I'm really a broadcast & recording > engineer by profession]. Each two hour show featured two usually > quite different musical groups, and required LIVE mixing of between > 10 and 32 microphones. The 2 or 3 other engineers and our producer > really looked forward to this exciting joint excercise each month. > Alas, after eight years of the show we were cancelled last year. > > As you may see, albeit by remote control, I am finding this group > an important aspect of my life. It's a privilege, actually. > Thanks again. > > Blast! I almost forgot the > > ADDENDUM > > During a chat with one person on the list I suggested a few sources > for HTML related material. This may be a replay of material that I > posted last year, but newcomers might be interested [NO IT'S NOT > ANOTHER BOOKMARK EXTRAVAGANZA]. > > Of the three sites shown here, Dr. Joe Burns has an amazing assortment > of material available, including tutorials, FAQs, free images, Java > Scripts, and whatnot. His bio is fun to read as well. Lively. > > http://www.htmlgoodies.com/ > > This site links to several other good sources, one of them in the > spirit of Burns but by a different author. One link was inactive > just now. > > http://www.ecis.com/webguide.html > > This site is problemattic: the last update appears to have been on > 22 Deember 1997, and the author Kevin Werbach only includes HTML > version > 3.0 material. I posted a note to him suggesting that since version 4.0 > has been around for a while that he update his information. I suppose > its > possible for the site to be running by itself without human > attendance? > > http://werbach.com/barebones/ > > Cheers, > Dave T. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 19:33:41 +0200 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: jgreene Subject: Re: THANKS: Font Madness & Addendum Dafydd, Just want to let you know that I received your file. Thank you for all the work you did *and* for making it available for me. Joyce Dafydd Llwyd Talcott wrote: > As soon as I complete this note I will push the magic button and > copies of my famous bookmark will, the gods willing, be sent to > all of you who have requested copies. [Any further requests will, > of course, be honored.] > > Thanks to everyone on the List for your interest and support. > Besides the USA I received requests from the UK, Iceland and Germany. > This had been a truly uplifting Internet experience for me [I know > that sounds like an ad for something in some tabloid]. Support is > often important to me personally since, while not exactly a recluse, > I have rather rarified interests and a small circle of friends. > This has been as much fun as the broadcasting sessions I used to > do monthly for a local FM station [I'm really a broadcast & recording > engineer by profession]. Each two hour show featured two usually > quite different musical groups, and required LIVE mixing of between > 10 and 32 microphones. The 2 or 3 other engineers and our producer > really looked forward to this exciting joint excercise each month. > Alas, after eight years of the show we were cancelled last year. > > As you may see, albeit by remote control, I am finding this group > an important aspect of my life. It's a privilege, actually. > Thanks again. > > Blast! I almost forgot the > > ADDENDUM > > During a chat with one person on the list I suggested a few sources > for HTML related material. This may be a replay of material that I > posted last year, but newcomers might be interested [NO IT'S NOT > ANOTHER BOOKMARK EXTRAVAGANZA]. > > Of the three sites shown here, Dr. Joe Burns has an amazing assortment > of material available, including tutorials, FAQs, free images, Java > Scripts, and whatnot. His bio is fun to read as well. Lively. > > http://www.htmlgoodies.com/ > > This site links to several other good sources, one of them in the > spirit of Burns but by a different author. One link was inactive > just now. > > http://www.ecis.com/webguide.html > > This site is problemattic: the last update appears to have been on > 22 Deember 1997, and the author Kevin Werbach only includes HTML version > 3.0 material. I posted a note to him suggesting that since version 4.0 > has been around for a while that he update his information. I suppose its > possible for the site to be running by itself without human attendance? > > http://werbach.com/barebones/ > > Cheers, > Dave T. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 18:33:38 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Laurence Errington Subject: email programme for Windows 3.1 First time I've written to INDEX-L! I'm a biomedical book indexer with about 12 years experience. I use a programme called TURNPIKE on W95 for my email/internet services. However, I want to find out where to get a small email programmesfor Windows 3.1, cheap (shareware), to put on a couple of backup PCs, in the event that my main pentium PC fails. In that situation, I would want to use the PCs to retrieve email (no need for internet, so I don't care about browsers at all). These PCs are pretty old (a 386 and 486-SX25 with relatively tiny hard discs, so they have to be small, easy to use programmes, that are not handicapped by the slow speed of these PCs, and they have to occupy just a few (say around 5 or so) megabytes. I've actually tried a DOS programme, but it's not that easy to use. If you know of any programmes, are they seld-contained including there own communication part (WINSOCK?). I don't want to have the bother of finding an additional programme to do the communicating. Also, where can I get the programmes. I'm in the UK, so take that into account into suggesting availability. That's why I mentioned shareware, as you might know a WEB site address where I could get it. As I said, I'm looking for a simple solution....... Thanks for any help offered. -- Dr Laurence Errington 15 Kirkhill Terrace, Edinburgh, Scotland, EH16 5DQ Tel: 0044-(0)131-667-5406 Fax: 0044-(0)131-667-5406 (9-7pm GMT weekdays only) E-Mail: index-l.info@errington-index.demon.co.uk (note: if message is urgent or response is required same day use fax service or call) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 14:32:18 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: Re: email programme for Windows 3.1 Laurence Errington wrote: > > First time I've written to INDEX-L! I'm a biomedical book indexer with > about 12 years experience. > > I use a programme called TURNPIKE on W95 for my email/internet services. > However, I want to find out where to get a small email programmesfor > Windows 3.1, cheap (shareware), to put on a couple of backup PCs, in the > event that my main pentium PC fails. In that situation, I would want to > use the PCs to retrieve email (no need for internet, so I don't care > about browsers at all). These PCs are pretty old (a 386 and 486-SX25 > with relatively tiny hard discs, so they have to be small, easy to use > programmes, that are not handicapped by the slow speed of these PCs, and > they have to occupy just a few (say around 5 or so) megabytes. I've > actually tried a DOS programme, but it's not that easy to use. > > If you know of any programmes, are they seld-contained including there > own communication part (WINSOCK?). I don't want to have the bother of > finding an additional programme to do the communicating. > > Also, where can I get the programmes. I'm in the UK, so take that into > account into suggesting availability. That's why I mentioned shareware, > as you might know a WEB site address where I could get it. > > As I said, I'm looking for a simple solution....... Thanks for any help > offered. Check here to get started: http://www.cnet.com/Content/Reviews/Compare/Emailclients/ss07.html And then here to look around some more: http://www.tucows.com http://www.cnet.com http://www.shareware.com http://www.download.com Ann Norcross ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:18:06 -0700 Reply-To: jthomas3@csulb.edu Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joy Thomas Organization: California State University Long Beach, Library Subject: Re: Finding: beauties, well-baked > The Stuffed Owl: An Anthology of Bad Verse_ selected and > arranged by D. B. Wyndham Lewis and Charles Lee. Ya know, no one has suggested looking in a (gasp) library to find this book. My library has a copy. -- Joy Thomas Social Sciences Librarian California State University, Long Beach 562 985-7817 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 16:33:41 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: ROBJRICH Subject: Term Needed All - Now that ASI is going to meet in Seattle for its annual brouhaha and clambake, I feel that we need a term for a gathering of indexers (you know, like a pride of lions....) Some candidate terms: . An Indentation of Indexers? . For contentious meetings, a Run-In of Indexers? . A heading of Indexers . A Subentry of Beginning Indexers (or, A Subentry of Newbies) Suggestions cheerfully received! Bob Richardson ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 16:42:25 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: AllWrite N Subject: Re: Term Needed How about: Compilation... Indication... Manifestation... Order... Thread... FWIW, ;D Nancy Noyes All Write ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:01:46 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Miller, David G (Dave)" Subject: FW: Term Needed C'mon, it's a subculture. Most indexer "gatherings" I've attended were spent deciding whether to sit around the table in alphabetical order by first or last name. Call it Tertiary Tittering. Dave Miller Online Information Development StorageTek Worldwide Headquarters Phone: (303) 673-7382 >---------- >From: ROBJRICH[SMTP:ROBJRICH@AOL.COM] >Sent: Thursday, April 23, 1998 2:33 PM >To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L >Subject: Term Needed > >All - > >Now that ASI is going to meet in Seattle for its annual brouhaha and >clambake, >I feel that we need a term for a gathering of indexers (you know, like a >pride >of lions....) > >Some candidate terms: > >. An Indentation of Indexers? >. For contentious meetings, a Run-In of Indexers? >. A heading of Indexers >. A Subentry of Beginning Indexers (or, A Subentry of Newbies) > >Suggestions cheerfully received! > >Bob Richardson > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 17:25:53 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lenore Relihan Subject: Re: Term Needed How about a "concordance" of indexers? lrelihan@newsbank.com ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Term Needed Author: Indexer's Discussion Group at Internet-Gateway Date: 04/23/1998 4:57 PM All - Now that ASI is going to meet in Seattle for its annual brouhaha and clambake, I feel that we need a term for a gathering of indexers (you know, like a pride of lions....) Some candidate terms: . An Indentation of Indexers? . For contentious meetings, a Run-In of Indexers? . A heading of Indexers . A Subentry of Beginning Indexers (or, A Subentry of Newbies) Suggestions cheerfully received! Bob Richardson ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 19:48:13 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nmbenton Subject: Re: Term Needed I've been giggling all day about a term someone (sorry I can't remeber who) used on this listserv. A "hive" of indexers sounds just right! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:40:13 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Subject: JavaScript course available online Nothing to do with indexing as such, but in view of the current interest in Web pages and online courses, I thought I would announce that my two-day Web Page Enhancement course using JavaScript and (pre-written) Java is now available on-line. Details at http://www.users.bigpond.com/Diagonal/jscourse.htm Jonathan =================================== Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Indexing, PC Training, Web Page Authoring http://www.users.bigpond.com/Diagonal Diagonal@bigpond.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 21:53:35 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SMWilkersn Subject: Re: truce - hands off web indexing ok?/Coming to America! Hi Dwight, It's great to hear you are coming to the states! I would love to meet you at the Seattle conference if I were able to attend. Maybe you can make it to next year's conference too. I will definately be there. The way the computer/Internet industry is zooming I have no doubt your Webix program will be well underway by then and you won't have much choice. I have been completely consumed by the Consortium of Freelancers and Publishers web site and am assisting with the new ASI Tennessee Regional Group Web Site. We plan to throughly index both web sites and plan to use your program to do it. Both web sites are offering so much that I can't imagine them not having an index. We feel it would be a lot easier to index the sites from the beginning rather than waiting till they are so big that it becomes a full time job just to catch up. As of yet I haven't the foggest idea of how to create a web index or how to use your program but I plan to learn and would like to purchase the password to get the online documentation or whatever I need to learn how. I know enough to know that it isn't something you can just figure out on your own. I have for some time now been interested in your program, actually every since you first mentioned the program to me. It was so far over my head at the time I was too dumb to even know what to ask about it. Since I have learned how to design web pages it makes a lot more sense. I feel anyone wanting to learn web indexing should learn at least the basics of web page designing and html, however since I don't know how to index web pages yet, I may be completely wrong. At any rate keep me posted about the online documentation you are planning and hope to one day get to meet you on one of the, I know, many future trips to the U.S. and Welcome to America!! Your friend, Susan Wilkerson P.S. Sorry it took me so long to reply to your inquiry to my where abouts. I haven't had much time to keep up with Index-L and only notice it because of the many references to web indexi. I decided since I plan to start learning how these post may be useful. I really hope to hear a lot more about web page indexing so don't throw in the towel yet...:) I sent you a e-mail a couple of weeks ago asking you to check your listing at the CFP web site to be sure everything was correct and I actually e-mailed it from the web site so I hope the address was correct but since you evidently didn't know I had changed the URL and my e-mail address you must have thought it was junk mail....lol I have someone editing the site and am thinking about applying for a domain, like you had suggested, so it will be another couple of weeks before I will be ready to announce the URL to everyone and start faxing publishers. Can't believe how much time it has taken...but I want it to be perfect and as you and everyone else knows I am naturally far from perfect so it takes me a bit longer...:) and I know this letter probably has errors but I am toooooo tired to worry about it... I'm saving my perfection for the web site...:) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 06:01:00 +0100 Reply-To: hcalvert@macrex.cix.co.uk Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Drusilla Calvert Subject: Re: beauties, well baked Thank you, Pam - brilliant! One of the most hilarious of modern indexes is to Julian Barnes' Letters from London (his collection of articles for the New Yorker). If you can find it, look at the sections under `animals' (subheadings as far as I can remember include `Geoffrey Howe as Rottweiler') and `Thatcher, Margaret' (read this for *real* bias in indexing!). Presumably the author did the index ... I'd quote from it, but my copy has been lent to someone. Anyone who was there will remember that Mary Piggott, the ex-President of the (British) Society of Indexers, quoted from it in her after-dinner talk to the Bristol conference in 1996. And to go back even further in time here are a few gems (not all funny, but all worth chewing over) from one of Benjamin Wheatley's (1819-1884) little books on indexing (taken from the notes I took when I borrowed it from another indexer - I no longer have the book so I can't give the reference at the moment) `An index is an indicator or pointer out of the position of required information, such as the finger-post on a high road, or the index finger of the human hand' A word sometime used for an indexer was `abecedarian' - `pye' was used as a word for index in 1547 "The Indexer has a considerable power in his hand if he chooses to use it, for he can state in a few words what the author may have hidden in verbiage, and he can so arrange his materials as to force the reader to draw an inference.' Macaulay said - "Let no d --- Tory make the Index to my History." Wheatley mentions an index used in evidence in a trial (early parallel of suing the indexer) - Mr Watts didn't like the entry "Watts (Mr.), illiberal remarks of, on Captain Kater's experiments" - editor has note of apology to Mr Watts for the term `illiberal' .... `William Brownley, a Tory Member of Parliament and high churchman, had made the Grand Tour in early life, and published "Remarks made in his Travels in 1693." In 1705 he was a candidate for the Speakership, and his opponents took the opportunity of reprinting his Travels with a satirical index....' `The index of a book should be made by the author, even if the book itself were written by some one else' (a quote collected rather than made by Wheatley!) The ideal indexer: `He must be a good analyser and know how to reduce the author's many words into a terse form. He must also be continually thinking of the wants of the consulter of his index, so as to place his references under the heading that the reader is most likely to seek' Henry Rogers: "no writer is so much read as the maker of a good index - or so much cited." Indexes are the soul of books There is an index of a sort to Clarissa by Richardson - table of all the passages best worth remembering - he extended this to all three of his novels - Pamela and Sir Charles Grandison - Richardson also did indexes in his leisure hours Drusilla ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 16:28:11 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: Term Needed In-Reply-To: <199804232152.OAA25460@powergrid.electriciti.com> How could any possibility compare with the perfection of: At 05:25 PM 4/23/98 EST, you wrote: > How about a "concordance" of indexers? > > lrelihan@newsbank.com Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:02:00 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: TennWords Subject: Announcement:New ASI Group We would like to announce that ASI has a new Tennessee Regional Group. Our web site will host its Grand Opening on May 22, 1998. There will be free cyber-coffee and donuts for all. Check us out and learn what we offer at: Tennessee Regional Group Home Page or http://members.aol.com/tennwords/home.html If you are in Tennessee, and would like to find out how you can participate in Group activities, contact: Dawn Spencer indexlady@aol.com tel: (423) 354-9601 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:45:18 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SCTopping Subject: Re: Term Needed Oh dear! We couldn't use a "hive" of indexers -- that would include only the bees! Sandywitch ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 09:08:07 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Famous Last Words All -- I have an unusual request: I'm looking for two people to be characters in Famous Last Words, the murder mystery we'll be doing at the Awards Banquet in Seattle. :-) One role is a 10-year-old boy; the other is a middle-aged Native American fellow. No real acting required ... just reading responses in answer to the detective's questions. BTW, you don't have to be 10-years-old to read that character's lines, and you don't have to be a Native American to do that role either. :-) Please respond directly to me (not to the list). Thanks much! Lori *********************************************************************** Lori Lathrop ---------->INTERNET:76620.456@compuserve.com Vice President/President-Elect, American Society of Indexers Lathrop Media Services, 7308-C East Independence Blvd., #316 Charlotte, NC 28227 / Phone: 704-531-0021 URL - http://idt.net/~lathro19 (note: that's a "nineteen" at the end) *********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:47:12 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Macrex Subject: Attention! Macrex users and Interested Indexers You Are Invited to a Macrex Reception On Wednesday, May 13, 1998, at Cavanaughs on Fifth Avenue (the ASI conference hotel) Hilary & Drusilla Calvert will host a reception for Macrex users. Starting at 6pm, this will be your chance to meet the designers of the Macrex software and to get to know other Macrex users. You do not need to be registered for the Macrex Workshops (or the ASI conference) in order to attend. Max McMasters, Macrex distributor for Australia, New Zealand and South East Asia will be the special guest. If possible, please let us know you are coming. RSVP by e-mail to hcalvert@macrex.cix.co.uk or by phone to (650) 756-0821. MACREX WORKSHOPS: Introduction to Macrex (Do Mi Stauber, Instructor) This Saturday afternoon (May 16th, 2pm to 5:15pm) workshop will focus on introducing Macrex to people who have never used it. Basic indexing procedures will be reviewed for novice indexers. Registration fee includes Macrex demo version (disk and "Getting Started with Macrex"). Basic Tips'n'Tricks with Macrex (Gale Rhoades, Instructor) This Wednesday afternoon (May 14th, 2pm to 5:15pm) workshop is for the newer Macrex user. The focus will be on using Keyboard macros and keywords for double posting and other tasks, spell-checking, multi-tasking using Macrex under Windows and preparing electronic copy for submission to publishers. Attendees should have completed the "Getting Started with Macrex" exercises. Advanced Techniques with Macrex (Gale Rhoades, Instructor) This Wednesday morning (May 14th, 8:30am to 11:45am) workshop is designed for established Macrex users who want to learn techniques to improve productivity, eliminate repetitive tasks, create multiple indexes in a single pass, utilize volume/page numbers for non-book materials or index without fnal folios. Attendees should have completed at least two indexes using Macrex. For information about course content, please contact the Macrex Support Office (North America) at 650-756-0821 or macrex@aol.com. For registration, please contact Margie Towery, 765-449-1718 or mtowery@aol.com. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:40:52 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: ROBJRICH Subject: 'Nuther term All - Sandy Topping wrote: "Oh dear! We couldn't use a "hive" of indexers -- that would include only the bees!" Very Good, Sandy! Gives one a rash just thinking about hives of indexers...... Couldn't use an Ocean of Indexers, either, I guess - - that would include only the C's.... Concordance of Indexers is quite good. But if we dispute points of indexing technique perhaps that would be a Discordance of Indexers. Another suggestion: . A Cumulation of Indexers and, for those really bad texts: . A Frustration of Indexers We probably are not likely to see an Affluence of Indexers, but if publishers' budgets continue to shrink, we might have An Impecuniousness of Indexers. And there's always a Nitpick of Proofreaders... Bob Richardson ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:06:34 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael C. Rossa" Subject: Re: Term Needed In-Reply-To: <199804241247.HAA09375@centurion.flash.net> Okay, I can't resist offering one more: A column of indexers? "Hup A,B,C..." * * * * * * * * * * Michael C. Rossa Allied Editorial (972) 267-2537 (972) 267-2538 Fax rossa@flash.net * * * * * * * * * * "A ... mind, stretched by new ideas, can never go back to its original dimensions." Oliver Wendell Holmes ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:33:58 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SMWilkersn Subject: APOLOGY: Re: truce - hands off web indexing ok?/Welcome to America Sorry...didn't mean to post that letter to Dwight to the list...:o( Susan ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 14:27:20 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Late Breaking News! All -- Dwight Walker has offered to host a roundtable discussion on Web Indexing, and I have scheduled it as an another roundtable on Saturday, May 16, Noon to 1:45 P.M. Registration for this roundtable will be on a first-come first-served basis at the conference. The fee for ASI and IASC members will be $25 US, and the fee for non-members will be $30 US. Looking forward to seeing you in Seattle! .... Lori *********************************************************************** Lori Lathrop ---------->INTERNET:76620.456@compuserve.com Vice President/President-Elect, American Society of Indexers Lathrop Media Services, 7308-C East Independence Blvd., #316 Charlotte, NC 28227 / Phone: 704-531-0021 URL - http://idt.net/~lathro19 (note: that's a "nineteen" at the end) *********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 13:40:25 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeri Lee Subject: Re: Late Breaking News! Lori, I would love to take this one but am scheduled for beginning legal indexing on Saturday; any chance he would also do a web indexing roundtable on Friday as well? It sounds like there might be enough interest to fill up two roundtables. If you do decide to have one on Friday, please switch me from Database Indexing with McMaster to the Web Indexing with Wright. Is that confusing enough ! Thanx, Jeri Lee Lori Lathrop wrote: > > All -- Dwight Walker has offered to host a roundtable discussion on Web > Indexing, and I have scheduled it as an another roundtable on Saturday, May > 16, Noon to 1:45 P.M. > > Registration for this roundtable will be on a first-come first-served basis > at the conference. The fee for ASI and IASC members will be $25 US, and > the fee for non-members will be $30 US. > > Looking forward to seeing you in Seattle! .... Lori > ***********************************************************************> Lori Lathrop ---------->INTERNET:76620.456@compuserve.com > Vice President/President-Elect, American Society of Indexers > Lathrop Media Services, 7308-C East Independence Blvd., #316 > Charlotte, NC 28227 / Phone: 704-531-0021 > URL - http://idt.net/~lathro19 (note: that's a "nineteen" at the end) > *********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 22:39:08 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.A Binns" Subject: Indent horror I have just received some proofs for indexing, with an accompanying style sheet. The style sheet is actually a page from an index that I did to an earlier book in the series - it is a series of seven school maths text books. I was horrified to discover that in several places the indents have been altered, so that some headings look like subheadings and vice versa. For instance, I wrote: adding decimals directed numbers fractions algebra arrow diagrams conversion graphs angles But it has been printed as: adding decimals directed numbers fractions algebra arrow diagrams conversion graphs angles which makes it look as though algebra, arrow diagrams and conversion graphs are all subheadings of adding, and not even in alphabetical order! But even worse - where I put: data continuous discrete decimals adding dividing multiplying percentages degrees, angles denominator it has been printed as: data continuous discrete decimals adding dividing multiplying percentages degrees, angles denominator which turns my work into total gibberish! They only sent one page as the style sheet, so I don't know what horrors might have occured in the rest of the index. I very rarely see my indexes in their final published form, it doesn't seem to be the norm here in Britain for publishers to send a copy to the indexer, and I don't usually ask because they are not often books I would actually want to own (I have already read them anyway!) and my house is already full of books. So I have no idea what terrible mutilations might have occurred to my other babies. What adds insult to injury is that the editor obviously didn't notice that there was anything wrong, and was quite happy to send it out as an example of how to do an index! And I can't get hold of her until Monday to find out what went wrong. Anyway, for this next index I think I will just have main headings, with no subheadings. In any case, the article by Paula Mathews and Ken Bakewell in the latest 'Indexer' says that children don't tend to use subheadings. Sorry for the ranting, but I feel quite angry and upset. Margaret Binns ============================ Margaret Binns Indexer 20 Hangleton Manor Close Hove, Sussex, BN3 8AJ, UK Tel: 01273 420844 binns@hangleton.u-net.com ============================ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 19:55:22 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: BECohen653 Subject: Re: Indent horror Hi Margaret, I've never really understood why publlishers don't let indexers proof the index (except for the time argument, which I really don't buy totally). I offer proofreading free of charge in my confirmation letter/contract, but very few publishers take advantage of this. I don't think it's because they don't want me to see the changes (well, once that was certainly the case, but it was years ago and I should get over it!).... I think that it is just one more step at the end of the production process, so it gets eliminated. Also, they think the regular proofread knows what to catch (in my experience, they don't). Perhaps you could write a pamphlet extolling the virtues of indexer-proofread indexes. Or a better checklist for proofreaders to use. I would certainly like to have something to pass out to my clients. If you decide to write up something, please send me a copy and will distribute it to editors and production managers on this side of the Atlantic. You are not alone in harboring this pet peeve. Barbara E. Cohen Indianapolis, Indiana USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 08:25:43 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Paul Lightfoot Subject: Indent horror Margaret - Commiserations on your mangled index. >Anyway, for this next index I think I will just have main headings, with= no >subheadings. In any case, the article by Paula Mathews and Ken Bakewell = in >the latest 'Indexer' says that children don't tend to use subheadings. Young children may tend not to use subheadings, but surely high-schoolers= and teachers do? Teachers need all the help they can get. :-) Sue Lightfoot ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 07:56:33 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dwight Walker Subject: roundtable on Web indexing at Seattle Hi everyone Well I am back in Sydney again. At the roundtable we can work through the issues of Web indexing: scalability scope costing (how much you can earn) industries taking it up tools available training - via self-paced or interactive methods I value your input! See you there if you're coming! Dwight Walker WWWalker Web Development ---------------------------------------------------------- Dwight Walker, Sydney, Australia tel +61-2-98960286, mob 0412-405727, fax +61-2-97772058 ICQ No. 4631678, handle: wwwalker (www.mirabilis.com) WWWalker Web Development: http://www.wwwalker.com.au Australian Society of Indexers: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi Sydney Linux Users Group http://www.slug.org.au Waverley Randwick Philharmonic http://www.wwwalker.com.au/wrps.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:42:01 -0400 Reply-To: brocindx@catskill.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kevin A. Broccoli" Organization: Broccoli Indexing Services Subject: Web Indexing SIG Dear Index-L members: Plans are being made for developing a web indexing Special Interests Group. The main goals of the SIG will be: (1) promote the benefits of web indexing (2) develop a web site as a resource for indexers interested in web indexing (3) share ideas by having online forums to discuss tools, procedures, and marketing methods for web indexing Anyone who is an ASI member and is interested in more information, please contact Kevin A. Broccoli at brocindx@catskill.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 03:02:37 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Thomas P. Copley" Subject: ANNOUNCE> Dynamic Duo Workshop On XML and DHTML Still Open +-----------------------------------------------+ | THE DYNAMIC DUO WORKSHIP: XML & DYNAMIC HTML | +-----------------------------------------------+ The Dynamic Duo Workshop: XML & Dynamic HTML is a six week workshop conducted entirely via email and the World Wide Web (WWW). It introduces the beginner and somewhat more advanced user to the eXtensibe Markup Language (XML) and dynamic HyperText Markup Language (HTML). For further information about the workshop, please see the URL http://www.bearfountain.com/arlington/duo.html How To Sign Up A six week session of the Dynamic Duo Workshop is scheduled to begin on Monday, May 4, 1998 and will conclude on Friday, June 12, 1998. The cost of the workshop is $30 US. To sign up for the workshop, please send an email message to the address: majordomo@arlington.com and in the body of the message, place: subscribe duo About the Author The workshop leader, Thomas P. Copley, Ph.D., has successfully taught several on-line courses in the past, including most recently, Tune In the Net Workshop , first offered in 1997 and Make the Link Workshop , introduced in 1995. ________________________________________________________________ THOMAS P. COPLEY tcopley@arlington.com Dynamic Duo Workshop www.bearfountain.com/arlington/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 08:13:28 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Robert A. Saigh" Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE> Dynamic Duo Workshop On XML and DHTML Still Open Help: I would love to take this class, but I can't take it during the six weeks you have mentioned. Will the class be offered again? rob fugleman@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 08:41:45 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Laura M. Gottlieb" Subject: Photos to Seattle 27 April 1998 To all of you who will be in Seattle: I really regret the thread that was abruptly terminated a couple of years ago that concerned the views from our studies/workrooms/offices. Please consider bringing a photo of your workspace--and/or the views from same--to the conference in Seattle to show. I'm always intrigued by the workspaces people create for themselves. See you there!--Laura Moss Gottlieb, Freelance Indexer ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:34:56 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Nancy A. Guenther" Subject: Seattle food ? My latest Keywords arrived & I was glad to see the article on restaurants. My question -- what is available in the way of fast food in the area of the hotel. 2 of my children (teenage son & 7 yr old daughter) will be with me. Their idea of "good" food is more in the line of Pizza Hut, Kentucky Fried Chicken, Burger King, etc. Does anyone know what might be in walking distance? Thanks, Nancy Guenther nanguent@chesco.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 09:12:53 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: Seattle food ? In-Reply-To: <199804271536.LAA30766@camel5.mindspring.com> There will be tons - Happy Teriyaki is nearby, there's pizza shops and Mcdonalds, and Taco Del Mar. I don't think there's a KFC down there, but there are just tons of food places, fast and slow, cheap and expensive... Jan Wright At 11:34 AM 4/27/98 -0400, you wrote: >My latest Keywords arrived & I was glad to see the article on restaurants. >My question -- what is available in the way of fast food in the area of the >hotel. 2 of my children (teenage son & 7 yr old daughter) will be with me. >Their idea of "good" food is more in the line of Pizza Hut, Kentucky Fried >Chicken, Burger King, etc. Does anyone know what might be in walking distance? > >Thanks, >Nancy Guenther >nanguent@chesco.com > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:32:04 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: More Late Breaking News! All -- For the latest ASI conference announcements regarding the Networking Luncheon (for committees, chapters, SIGs, and anyone else needing time and space to get together) on Thursday and the Web Indexing roundtable on Saturday, please see the ASI Web Site: http://www.asindexing.org/mtgnotic.htm Of course, if you have questions, you may also contact me at the address below. (Please do not reply to INDEX-L.) Looking forward to seeing you in Seattle! .... Lori *********************************************************************** Lori Lathrop ---------->INTERNET:76620.456@compuserve.com Vice President/President-Elect, American Society of Indexers Lathrop Media Services, 7308-C East Independence Blvd., #316 Charlotte, NC 28227 / Phone: 704-531-0021 URL - http://idt.net/~lathro19 (note: that's a "nineteen" at the end) *********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:55:56 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: CHAT: CNET "7 Wonders of the Web" The current issue of CNET News [http://www.cnet.com] has a moderately interesting article titled, "7 Wonders of, the Web". While CNET seems to be the National Enquirer for the Net this author mentions some stuff pertinent to indexing as well as search engines. Cheers, dllt ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:49:54 -0400 Reply-To: brocindx@catskill.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kevin A. Broccoli" Organization: Broccoli Indexing Services Subject: Web indexing SIG Because we had so many responses for the web indexing SIG, I am posting this message here for all that wrote to me: All of your names have been recorded and we will get back to each of you as soon as more information is available. This won't be until after the conference in Seattle. Anyone else that hasn't yet responded, please e-mail me at brocindx@catskill.net Kevin A. Broccoli Broccoli Information Management http://members.aol.com/tennwords/BroccoliInformationManagement/BIM.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:56:37 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Indexer needed Here's the story: I have a client here in Raleigh who needs an index for a thousand page book immediately (by May 8). It is a software book about warehouse measurement systems. It was written by 39 different authors. Pages are about 7x9, but dense text. The client has an outline that they want the index to follow *exactly*. The outline is 50 pages, double column. FWIW, I've seen it and it doesn't look too bad. The source files are available in both PageMaker and Word. They want someone to use their outline to generate an index from the files. I have told them that this is not practical, but then I am no embedded indexing guru. If any of you gurus want to undertake this, please contact: John Fanella jfanella@tompkinsinc.com 919-876-3667 If they decide to scrap their plans and index the book from scratch (my preference), I have dibs on the job. If anyone can automate the process for them, then go for it. Please copy me on correspondence. Dick Evans ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:14:17 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: Term Needed At 04:33 PM 4/23/98 EDT, you wrote: >All - > >Now that ASI is going to meet in Seattle for its annual brouhaha and clambake, >I feel that we need a term for a gathering of indexers (you know, like a pride >of lions....) > >Some candidate terms: > >. An Indentation of Indexers? >. For contentious meetings, a Run-In of Indexers? >. A heading of Indexers >. A Subentry of Beginning Indexers (or, A Subentry of Newbies) > >Suggestions cheerfully received! > >Bob Richardson How 'bout a gathering of indexers? Michael Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 530-272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 16:27:59 -0700 Reply-To: "vbirchfield@kalesis.com" Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Vicki Birchfield Organization: Kalesis Systems Subject: Re: Seattle food ?+other kid stuff Westlake Center is within walking distance too. It has an upscale food court on the top floor. There's a place that sells decent hot dogs with good fixings in the building with Borders Books. When they get done eating, kids might enjoy GameWorks (I've never been there, hear it's fun but eats money fast), and FAO Schwartz is nearby. Other stuff within walking distance: The aquarium. An oddities store with real shrunken heads, mummies, and petrified whale penises, if you go for bizarre combos of miniature and outsized curiosities. Also, you can take the short monorail ride from Westlake Center to Seattle Center, where you will find carnival rides and all the neon colored cotton candy you could ever wish for. I'm partial to the fudge stand. Oh, and there's an IMAX theater there, a hands-on science center. The zoo (take a bus) is excellent. And if you have time, check out the troll under the Fremont Bridge. In the downtown area, the buses are free. You only pay if you go out of the free-zone, which is really pretty big. And even then, it's only .85 in most of the city. Vicki -----Original Message----- From: Jan C. Wright [SMTP:jancw@MINDSPRING.COM] Sent: Monday, April 27, 1998 9:13 AM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: Re: Seattle food ? There will be tons - Happy Teriyaki is nearby, there's pizza shops and Mcdonalds, and Taco Del Mar. I don't think there's a KFC down there, but there are just tons of food places, fast and slow, cheap and expensive... Jan Wright At 11:34 AM 4/27/98 -0400, you wrote: >My latest Keywords arrived & I was glad to see the article on restaurants. >My question -- what is available in the way of fast food in the area of the >hotel. 2 of my children (teenage son & 7 yr old daughter) will be with me. >Their idea of "good" food is more in the line of Pizza Hut, Kentucky Fried >Chicken, Burger King, etc. Does anyone know what might be in walking distance? > >Thanks, >Nancy Guenther >nanguent@chesco.com > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 08:12:01 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Amir Parsi-Esfahani Subject: List of Catalogers Dear list Would you please address me a list of catalogers, specially whom use USMARC as bibliographic format? Thanks in advance A. Parsi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 03:58:54 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Macrex Subject: Re: Attention! Macrex users and Interested Indexers A few days ago I mistakenly posted to the list an announcement about the reception (to hosted by Hilary & Drusilla Calvert in Seattle) for Macrex users. I intended to post only the reminder about the Macrex workshops for which there is still space available. Please accept my apologies for any confusion. Gale Rhoades Macrex Support Office, North America ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 01:31:19 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Horowitz Subject: Online Computer Dictionary I think I remember a post recently asking about Computer Dictionaries. Here is the URL of Princeton University online computer dictionary Free Online Dictionary of Computing http://wfn-shop.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/foldoc Roberta Horowitz rhorowitz@acm.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 07:19:01 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SMWilkersn Subject: Re: Term Needed Has anyone said, A Index of Indexers or The living Index Susan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 09:54:25 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Circulating announcements I am the chairman of the Education and Training Committee for the local chapter of the Society for Technical Communication (STC). Among other things, the committee maintains a Web page of educational opportunities of interest to technical writers. From time to time, I see announcements on this list of workshops, presentations, etc. that the STC would find interesting. Would it be acceptable to post such announcements on our Web page? Would I need specific permission from each poster? Dick ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:07:09 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nmbenton Subject: Re: Circulating announcements Fine with me Nell ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 09:13:38 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Naomi K. Young" Subject: Re: List of Catalogers In-Reply-To: The electronic mailing list you are seeking is AUTOCAT. To subscribe, send a message with no subject line to: listserv@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu saying subscrbe AUTOCAT (and type your name here) then follow the directions on the reply you will receive. If you have any problems, contact the listowners. The listowners are: (preferred address given first) Judith Hopkins ULCJH@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Douglas Winship DWINSHIP@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU WINSHIP@AUSTINTX.COM It's a very helpful list. At 08:12 AM 4/28/98 LCL, you wrote: >Dear list > Would you please address me a list of catalogers, specially whom >use USMARC as bibliographic format? > >Thanks in advance >A. Parsi > > Naomi K. Young Periodicals/Microforms Librarian Southern Methodist University (214) 768-2759 "If Foucault had had an editor, English departments as we know them today would not exist." -- Matthew Winslow ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 09:14:35 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was maryann@ITASCA.REVISOR.LEG.STATE.MN.US From: Maryann Corbett Organization: Revisor of Statutes Subject: Re: Circulating announcements Richard Evans wrote: > > I am the chairman of the Education and Training Committee for the local > chapter of the Society for Technical Communication (STC). Among other > things, the committee maintains a Web page of educational opportunities of > interest to technical writers. From time to time, I see announcements on > this list of workshops, presentations, etc. that the STC would find > interesting. Would it be acceptable to post such announcements on our Web > page? Would I need specific permission from each poster? Speaking as one who has had the job of trying to get the word out about chapter presentations, I would be glad to know that someone in STC was watching out for such things. We've generally tried to post to techwr-l and contact somebody in the STC chapter, or even buy a mailing list, but we've never tried to get on the STC web page. Dick's efforts would be a great asset. -- Maryann Corbett Language Specialist Office of the Revisor of Statutes Minnesota Legislature 612-297-2952 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 09:23:55 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Anne Taylor Subject: Re: List of Catalogers At 08:12 AM 4/28/98 LCL, you wrote: >Dear list > Would you please address me a list of catalogers, specially whom >use USMARC as bibliographic format? > >Thanks in advance >A. Parsi This isn't meant to be snide or a flame, but are there any catalogers from ALA-accredited schools who weren't trained in it? Or, maybe, I misunderstand what you mean by USMARC? The American Library Association, the Medical Library Association, and the Special Library Association may all be of help to you in finding a cataloger. These associations maintain job hotlines for all stripe of librarians who are on the hunt for the first position or a better one. I don't have phone numbers or addresses to these associations handy, but ALA maintains a website at: http://www.ala.org/ All the major scholarly and trade journals for librarianship publish job ads in every issue. Putting an ad in one of these is expensive, though (I've seen them priced at US$500!) Let me know if I can help you, Anne Anne Taylor University of Missouri-St. Louis ataylor@umsl.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:50:35 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Subject: indexing vacancies - H.W. Wilson (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Return-Path: <<@HWWIBM.HWWILSON.COM:gamoroso@info.hwwilson.com>> >From: "Gina Amoroso /Personnel 4th Floor" >Organization: The H.W.Wilson Company >To: ASI@well.com >Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 13:49:15 EST >Subject: indexingvacancies >Reply-to: gamoroso@hwwilson.com >Return-receipt-to: gamoroso@hwwilson.com >Priority: normal > > >Please post. > >Thank you. > > >We are looking for professionals with an approach that reflects a " >can do" attitude to join our team. We are the H.W. Wilson Company, >whose renowned electronic information and reference publications are >supported by extremely competent professionals. > >Celebrating 100 years of service. > > > >Applied Science & Technology Index - Indexer > >Requirements: B.S. in Electrical Engineering > > >Book Review Digest - Cataloger > >Requirements: General subject background. BA. or B.S. liberal arts. > MLS required. > > >Business Periodicals Index - Indexer > >Requirements: Broad business background. MLS preferred. > > >Library Literature - Indexer > >Requirements: Knowledge of one of the following foreign languages > preferred: French, German, > Italian, Danish or Swedish. MLS required. > cataloging experience helpful. > > >Names- Cataloger > >Requirements: Good understanding of AACR2 revised cataloging rules. > MLS required > > >Readers' Guide to Periodical Literature- Indexer > >Requirements: General subject background. B.A. or B.S. in Liberal > Arts. MLS required. > > >Social Sciences Index - Indexer > >Requirements: B.A. or B.S. in Liberal Arts. Strong subject > background in economics. > MLS preferred. > > >Standard Catalogs - Cataloger > >Requirements: . Experience in library collection development > desirable . > Computer literacy desirable. > Knowledge of/or interest in > contemporary drama > helpful .MLS required > > >We offer a generous benefits program, including four weeks vacation >and a competitive salary. > > > >Send resume with salary request to: > > The H.W. Wilson Company > Personnel Administration > 950 University Avenue > Bronx, NY 10452 > > Fax #: 718-538-2716 > e-mail: jobs@hwwilson.con > > An Equal Opportunity employer > > > >Note: Please state the name of the position which you are applying > for. > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 08:54:20 MST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Running Bentley Subject: Re: List of Catalogers I am not a "list" of Catalogers; but I am a Cataloger who uses the USMARC for all bibliographic formats. Linda Running Bentley lbentley@denver.lib.co.us (303)640-6470 ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: List of Catalogers Author: "Indexer's Discussion Group" at INET Date: 4/28/98 12:51 AM Dear list Would you please address me a list of catalogers, specially whom use USMARC as bibliographic format? Thanks in advance A. Parsi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:54:13 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Suellen Kasoff Subject: Re: indexing vacancies - H.W. Wilson (fwd) Are these on-site positions? Suellen On Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:50:35 -0400 Charlotte Skuster writes: >---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > >>Return-Path: <<@HWWIBM.HWWILSON.COM:gamoroso@info.hwwilson.com>> >>From: "Gina Amoroso /Personnel 4th Floor" > >>Organization: The H.W.Wilson Company >>To: ASI@well.com >>Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 13:49:15 EST >>Subject: indexingvacancies >>Reply-to: gamoroso@hwwilson.com >>Return-receipt-to: gamoroso@hwwilson.com >>Priority: normal >> >> >>Please post. >> >>Thank you. >> >> >>We are looking for professionals with an approach that reflects a " >>can do" attitude to join our team. We are the H.W. Wilson Company, >>whose renowned electronic information and reference publications are >>supported by extremely competent professionals. >> >>Celebrating 100 years of service. >> >> >> >>Applied Science & Technology Index - Indexer >> >>Requirements: B.S. in Electrical Engineering >> >> >>Book Review Digest - Cataloger >> >>Requirements: General subject background. BA. or B.S. liberal >arts. >> MLS required. >> >> >>Business Periodicals Index - Indexer >> >>Requirements: Broad business background. MLS preferred. >> >> >>Library Literature - Indexer >> >>Requirements: Knowledge of one of the following foreign languages >> preferred: French, German, >> Italian, Danish or Swedish. MLS required. >> cataloging experience helpful. >> >> >>Names- Cataloger >> >>Requirements: Good understanding of AACR2 revised cataloging rules. >> MLS required >> >> >>Readers' Guide to Periodical Literature- Indexer >> >>Requirements: General subject background. B.A. or B.S. in Liberal >> Arts. MLS required. >> >> >>Social Sciences Index - Indexer >> >>Requirements: B.A. or B.S. in Liberal Arts. Strong subject >> background in economics. >> MLS preferred. >> >> >>Standard Catalogs - Cataloger >> >>Requirements: . Experience in library collection development >> desirable . >> Computer literacy desirable. >> Knowledge of/or interest in >> contemporary drama >> helpful .MLS required >> >> >>We offer a generous benefits program, including four weeks vacation >>and a competitive salary. >> >> >> >>Send resume with salary request to: >> >> The H.W. Wilson Company >> Personnel Administration >> 950 University Avenue >> Bronx, NY 10452 >> >> Fax #: 718-538-2716 >> e-mail: jobs@hwwilson.con >> >> An Equal Opportunity employer >> >> >> >>Note: Please state the name of the position which you are applying >> for. >> >> >> > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:44:07 -0600 Reply-To: mcnulty@montana.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joanne or Moose McNulty Subject: books about indexing I'm in the beginning stages of becomming an indexer. Which book do you think is better for the new indexer--The Art of Indexing by Wiley or Indexing Books by Mulvaney??