From: SMTP%"LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu" 26-MAR-1998 05:26:10.45 To: CIRJA02 CC: Subj: File: "INDEX-L LOG9802A" Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 04:42:51 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9802A" To: CIRJA02@GSVMS1.CC.GASOU.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:10:37 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: bad moment Warnings are in order to all Zip drive users unless you're smarter than I am and make more than one backup. I have just experienced a near fatal Zip disk failure and only by the grace of God or whomever do I still have all my indexes, my half finished novel, my check book, my tax records, etc. So the lesson is, make at least 2 backups of imp. stuff, keep your Zip drive at least 18 inches away from your monitor or any magnetic device, keep your backups somewhere else altogether. This might be, in raw form, my first tip for my new column. I did have multiple backups of almost everything, but not of all my indexes. Just thought I'd pass this along hoping to save someone else from the bad hour (and the $14.95 service charge) I just had. Rachel Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:38:22 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: bad moment At 12:10 PM 2/2/98 -0500, you wrote: >Warnings are in order to all Zip drive users unless you're smarter than I >am and make more than one backup. I have just experienced a near fatal Zip >disk failure Details, please! What caused the failure? Proximity of the drive to your monitor? Dick ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:44:58 -0500 Reply-To: Scot Rose Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Scot Rose Subject: Please discontinue sending This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD2FF1.848B7E00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please discontinue sending sending this listserve to anyone at the = ravenwood.com address. This address is no longer valid for email and it = keeps backing up on the server. Scot Rose Sysop Castle Ravenwood BBS ravenwood.com ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD2FF1.848B7E00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Please discontinue sending sending=20 this listserve to anyone at the ravenwood.com address. This address is = no longer=20 valid for email and it keeps backing up on the server.

Scot = Rose

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------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD2FF1.848B7E00-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:34:57 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nancy Noyes Subject: Re: bad moment Rachel, While all electronics equipment is supposed to be protected against such magnetic pulse problems (there are stickers on the backs of all such devices that must be checked off if the products are sold in the USA), the fact is that sometimes things happen that shouldn't. I had a former employer who placed her UPS (uninterrupted power supply, that I mentioned in a previous posting) next to her monitor and ended up with all sorts of interference. Likewise, it is possible that the shielding on your PC or peripherals may be defective or inadequate for the intensity of any nearby magnetic fields. The best possible defense is to keep your zip drives (or other standalone equipment) away from your monitor and your UPS. But, by far, the most important message is still BACK-UP, BACK-UP, BACK-UP! Having 2 copies of the most important stuff is VERY important (I always advise a daily of all changed files, and if your active file is critical I suggest a separate daily or hourly of the file being worked on). If you work fast enough it is possible that you will lose far more than you could imagine if 3-4 hours of work gets zapped. Also keep an emergency boot disk of your system so if you do the unthinkable -- which many of us who have programmed for a living have done -- and erase your main drive (or it gets 'done to you' by angry gods of electric storms or whatever), you will be able to boot up using this diskette and restore your system files and command files. End of lecture. Nancy Noyes All Write ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:44:09 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: bad moment In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980202143820.008191b0@pop.mindspring.com> Dick asked, >Details, please! What caused the failure? Proximity of the drive to your >monitor? And since I got several other requests for details, here's what the techie told me. Don't have the drive or the disks (or any magnetic media) near any magnetic source. The worst magnetic offender is the monitor. He said to keep the drive/disks at least 18 inches away from it. Only the older phones with bells and some cordless and cell phones have enough of a mag. charge to be a worry. Newer corded phones aren't a problem. All phones are only a prob. while actually ringing. Bottom line, if you're going to be compulsive, get all phones away, but it's probably not necessary. TV screens: bad like monitors. Refrigerator magnets: very bad. Watch out for things that have gotten magnetized, too, like paper clips. It could simply have been a bad disk. It could have been a corrupted file or effed up directory (he thinks this is most likely), as Disk Doctor was able to fix it. Also I had a few problems with rebuilding my desktop. (These are, of course, Mac thingys, but I imagine there are corrolaries to Win and Dos systems.) Also until now, that disk, always in the drive, is right next to the monitor, so that is also a strong suspect. I leave that disk in the drive all the time and back up to it all the time. The techie said that should be OK to do, but to be safe, I should eject the disk before shutting down, and I should be switching to backups 2 and 3 for utter safety, which I will begin doing on a daily basis. I'll go into more detail on this in the T and T article. I have submissions from another lister for backing up, too (thanks, Seth!) so it should be a pretty good tip. Anyone here who isn't an ASI member can ask me off list for the article once it's written. Anyone else with backup advice (or any tips for that matter) who wants to submit it for the article is welcome to do so off list. Rachel Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 19:26:39 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Charles R. Anderson" Subject: Re: bad moment In-Reply-To: <19980202211231.CGQQ24468@listserv.cuny.edu> I don't suppose you were one of the thousands of Symantec customers who got burned with the recent Norton Utilities Upgrade to 3.0? A bug in this software caused many to trash ZIP disks - not the drive, but the disk itself became unusable if you tried to create a ZIP Rescue disk (advertised as a great thing by Symantec). And even though I have since uninstalled Norton Utilities 3.0, my ZIP drive itself now is flaky. If you are thinking this might be your problem, check out the Customer Service news group accessible from Symantec's home page - www.service1.symantec.com Charles Anderson Charles Anderson c.anderson.seattle@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 19:33:17 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Charles R. Anderson" Subject: Re: bad moment Sorry, I need to correct that URL re Symantec - it is: http://service.symantec.com. From there go to Ask a Tech, choose Norton Utilities, and follow directions. >Charles Anderson > Charles Anderson c.anderson.seattle@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 23:30:32 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: bad moment At 07:26 PM 2/2/98 -0800, you wrote: >I don't suppose you were one of the thousands of Symantec customers who got >burned with the recent Norton Utilities Upgrade to 3.0? A bug in this >software caused many to trash ZIP disks - not the drive, but the disk >itself became unusable if you tried to create a ZIP Rescue disk (advertised >as a great thing by Symantec). And even though I have since uninstalled >Norton Utilities 3.0, my ZIP drive itself now is flaky. This is very interesting. I recently upgraded to Norton 3.0. I tried to create a Zip rescue disk but found I couldn't use it after creating it. I don't know as the disk itself was corrupted. After several years of struggling with various Norton bugs and indisyncracies, I have now removed Virus Checker, Utilities, and Navigator from my system. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 09:49:22 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marea & Jim Tumber Subject: textbook indexing Hi all- I was hoping to get some advice from some of you. I have a bachelor's degree in biology and about 12 years of experience in research and clinical labs. I'm thinking that indexing science textbooks might be a good place for me to get started. I have recently completed the USDA course and I'm just about to begin marketing myself. I've read that textbbok publishing is seasonal, but when are the books actually printed? When are the indexes written? Is this done as late as summer? Thanks for any information you can offer. Marea Tumber jtumber@msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:18:49 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: DOS Cindex A friend has decided not to pursue a career in indexing and would like to sell her license for DOS Cindex. Anyone who is interested can contact her directly at the address below: Carolyn Simon 74064.301@CompuServe.com Thanks, Craig Brown ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 12:06:11 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Seth A. Maislin" Subject: Re: textbook indexing In-Reply-To: "Marea & Jim Tumber" "textbook indexing" (Feb 3, 9:49am) Books are published all year around, of course, although seasonally things ebb and flow. The particular industry and market dictate when things get busy. For example, in academic publishing -- that is, textbooks written by professors because they want to publish their studies -- there is rarely a rush. These books have no anxious markets (and those markets aren't even big), so publishing houses such as MIT Press and the Harvard Press don't rush these books through any schedules. The only deadlines involved, really, are that professors are often required to publish frequently enough (books and articles) in order to maintain their university-level status, for example. In school publishing -- textbooks for high school students, for example -- some books have to be ready for school board reviews. This happens in the summer, I think. A publisher that wants their fourth-grade mathematics book to be adopted into the U.S. public school system must be presented to a review board, which then decides which of all published fourth-grade math books will be part of the standard school curriculum. In all other school publishing, the deadlines are dictated by the school year directly. Books need to be available in August and September for students who return to school. In college, this might also include January for the second semester of the school year. And in markets were summer school book are large enough (many of these books are the same as those during the year, but for younger grades you can expect additional books on driver's education or how-to-choose-a-career/college book), those books have to be ready by then too. Finally, there tend to be additional rushes that happen at the ends of fiscal years, when the budgets are about to conclude. Research universities and public institutions that didn't manage to spend all allocated money by the end of the fiscal year go on a shopping spree to avoid giving the impression that they don't need all the money they were given for that year. Textbooks don't fall into the "shopping spree" category very much, but some of the more un-required books do. Publishers might try to market their wares in time for this season rush. Once you have a deadline in mind, you have to provide enough time for publishing (sometimes a month), as well as marketing. For the indexer, you can be expect your contracts to take place two months before the publisher's real deadline -- with your negotiations starting sometimes as early as several months beforehand, or several weeks late and behind schedule. - Seth -- Seth A. Maislin (seth@oreilly.com) O'Reilly & Associates Focus Publishing Services 90 Sherman Street 89 Grove Street Cambridge MA 02140 Watertown MA 02172-2826 (617) 499-7439 phone (617) 924-4428 (617) 661-1116 facsimile smaislin@world.std.com URL: http://www.oreilly.com/~seth Webmaster, Amer Soc of Indexers: http://www.well.com/user/asi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:03:56 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Passim A few days ago I posed this question: >>I would be curious for a show of hands on the list how many other indexers (editors, proofreaders, and indexing aficianados) also were unaware of "passim" prior to entering the publishing field.<< Thanks to those of you who responded. My very informal survey shows that about 73% of the respondents were aware of the term prior to entering the publishing field. Perhaps we can conclude that indexers, editors, proofreaders, et al. constitute a well-informed group. I enjoyed the discussion. Craig Brown ========================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing (314)352-9094 www.i1.net/~lastword ========================================== ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 12:00:30 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: Continuous discussions with intervening illustrations At 08:21 PM 1/30/98 -0600, Susan Danzi Hernandez wrote: >> (Michael Brackney wrote) >> I'm thinking that if this dilemma comes up often enough and seems >> troublesome enough, maybe we should consider creating a new tool >> (accompanied by an appropriate headnote) for readers of books whose >> publishers would be willing to try it. A mnemonic page range annotation >> might be helpful: since "i" for "interrupted" could easily be taken for >> "illustrated", what about indicating interrupted or broken page ranges >> with "b"? In the examples given above this option would give us "14-16b" >> and "231-241b". > > >. . . With a running headnote, this seems like a good idea. I would vote to >make the mnemonic parenthetical -- 14-16(interr) or 35-40(nc) for interrupted >or noncontinuous. Or, to maintain the spirit of "passim", how about (ht) for >"here and there"?! > Thanks much for your suggestions, Susan: I found, to my surprise, that I especially appreciate the first one. At first glance, "14-16(interr)" looks too long for a page reference, but since it would be used so little, its length might actually be OK. By the same reasoning, "14-16(int'ruptd)" might be OK too -- and better because it's clear and unambiguous. ("14-16(broken)" too might do, though "broken" might not convey the sense of "broken up" well enough.) If such lengths seem prohibitive and "b" is much too vague, "14-16(brkn)" and even "14-16(int)" might be worth considering: readers not knowing enough about indexes to look up such a term in a headnote, would grasp its meaning upon looking up the passage specified -- and would thereby be prepped for their next encounter with it. "14-16(nc)" is wonderfully succinct and at first glance looks like it could be a fine alternative, but the term "noncontinuous" won't do since the discussion, though interrupted, is continuous. Both "14-16 passim" and "14-16(ht)" have the same problem. Here's one more idea, if anybody reading this can stand one more on this subject! What about taking my idea of changing the page range indicator one step further: instead of _replacing_ the hyphen or en dash with a slash (which could be mistaken for a volume number--page number separator), _superimpose_ a slash _upon_ the hyphen or en dash?! (Can't show an example of it in Eudora, but it's doable.) This would retain the hyphen or en dash as page range indicator but cut it in two to indicate an interrupted range -- without taking up _any_ extra space. Would this be too far out of line?! Well, give me a break: no brainstorming input is off limits! ~;-) Cheers, Michael Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 530-272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:09:40 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marea & Jim Tumber Subject: Re: textbook indexing Thanks so much for the info, Seth! -----Original Message----- >Books are published all year around, of course, although seasonally things >ebb and flow. The particular industry and market dictate when things >get busy. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 20:19:15 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: E: Mail origin cannot be determined. Comments: E: Original tag data was -> Charles Anderson Subject: Re: bad moment If you contact Symantec they will send a replacement ZIP disk theoretically. I lost three disks and they sent me only one. Charles Anderson ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:18:48 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Annette Boehmer Subject: textliners Just found a company carrying the special colored highlighter pencils...........don't want to advertise for any company directly, so E-mail me direct and I can give you the toll free number. Annette BooksEnd ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:46:50 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kamm Y. Schreiner" Subject: Press release * FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE * The demo version of SKY Index Professional is now available from our web site. The Standard Edition of SKY Index has also been released. For more information please visit our web site at: http://www.sky-software.com Sincerely, Kamm Schreiner SKY Software 4675 York Rd #1 Lineboro, MD 21102 email: kamm@sky-software.com phone: 800-776-0137 -------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:18:44 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: textbook indexing In-Reply-To: <199802032021.MAA15789@pacific.net> My experience is that textbooks per se, that is, college or el-hi texts, are on a cycle. For many textbook publishers, April through November with an occassional December book is the norm for indexing. Smaller publishers tend to have more limited seasons, of course, where they are focusing on one or two indexable products for the year, plus peripheral educational materials that are not indexable. Scholarly and trade presses have a more year-round schedule for indexes, in my experience. --Victoria ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:57:28 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MEB Subject: Re: textliners -----Original Message----- From: Annette Boehmer To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Tuesday, February 03, 1998 3:42 PM Subject: textliners >Just found a company carrying the special colored highlighter >pencils...........don't want to advertise for any company directly, so E-mail >me direct and I can give you the toll free number. > >Annette >BooksEnd Please e-mail your source of textliners Thank You Mary Ellen Brick mebrice@msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 19:11:29 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MEB Subject: Re: textliners -----Original Message----- From: Annette Boehmer To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Tuesday, February 03, 1998 3:42 PM Subject: textliners >Just found a company carrying the special colored highlighter >pencils...........don't want to advertise for any company directly, so E-mail >me direct and I can give you the toll free number. > >Annette >BooksEnd Please forward the number for textliners Thank You Mary Ellen Brick mebrick@msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 17:46:25 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J. Naomi Linzer" Subject: ASL Conference I have just begun the USDA indexing course this month and will soon start a volunteer indexing project on notes for a recently published local historical book. I've just joined ASI and this mailing list. How valuable will it be for me to attend the ASI conference in May 1998 or should I wait. I have an Anthropology BA '72 and an Anthropology/Museology MA '76 with specialization in Conservation and do not practice in my field at this time. TYIA Naomi Linzer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 21:17:41 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: EMickiT@AOL.COM Subject: Re: bad moment--Zip disk warning In a message dated 98-02-02 15:49:53 EST, you write: << And since I got several other requests for details, here's what the techie told me. >> I had problems with my Zip drive and I received this advice from Iomega: Always connect the Zip drive to the computer using only one cable, with or without an adapter. Don't connect two cables to get the proper type of plug. The data may not transfer correctly. VERY IMPORTANT: Don't run Microsoft Scandisk on Zip disks. Zip disks are not formatted the same way as others and 100s of good sectors may be marked as bad. I was told you MIGHT be able to make the disk usable again by running a long format, but of course, your data is gone. I do programming for a friend's company. She has Norton Utilities and a Zip drive. One day 2 of her 4 Zip disks became unreadable. We had to reformat them. The best I could figure from running Norton Utilities to check the disk is that a chunk of a file created by Norton on the disk was missing. I don't know enough about Norton Utilities to be sure, but the messages I got seemed to indicate that. In case you are wondering, we always have 2 backups and one archive of older versions of work, so no data was lost. Erin (Micki) Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 08:27:46 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandra Topping Subject: Fwd: hi...and a request for help with iso999 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_886598866_boundary Content-ID: <0_886598866@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Dear INDEX-L: I received the attached message this morning and figured that the quickest way to find an answer to her question would be to pass it on to the group. Can anyone help her find what she needs? Thanks for your help, Sandy --part0_886598866_boundary Content-ID: <0_886598866@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: Maura514@aol.com Return-path: To: SCTopping@aol.com Subject: hi...and a request for help with iso999 Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:15:34 EST Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi, My name is Maura Young, I am a grad student at IUPUI in Information Science. I am taking a class that involves information indexing and am doing a project about ISO and indexing. My project participants and I are having a devil of a time locating a copy of ISO999. Can you help us? Any other information about indexing and standards would also be appreciated. Thanks!!! Maura E. Young Maura514@aol.com --part0_886598866_boundary-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 08:54:55 -0800 Reply-To: slsmit4@ibm.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Sherry L. Smith" Subject: ASI Conference J. Naomi Linzer wrote, > I have just begun the USDA indexing course this month and will soon >start a volunteer indexing project on notes for a recently published local >historical book. I've just joined ASI and this mailing list. How valuable >will it be for me to attend the ASI conference in May 1998 or should I >wait. I attended the Denver ASI conference. At that time, I had completed the USDA course but did not yet have any paying clients. Despite this lack of experience, I found the conference very worthwhile. The conference gave me the best "flavor" of the profession. It's one thing to complete a correspondence course and it's another thing to meet the people who do this work everyday for a living. Those professionals were supportive and informative. The conference was one more affirmation that indexing was going to be a good mid life career change. I was able to meet Chapter members and immediately feel part of the group. These people have been an invaluable resource for my learning curve. The content was worthwhile and occasionally I refer to my notes. Index-L means more because there are faces to go with these names. And last, but not least, I met people I consider friends. This comment is coming from someone who seldom socializes and counts friends as prized rare people. If your budget and schedule work, go! Sherry Sherry L Smith INDEXING SERVICES 1208 NW 13th St. Bend, OR 97701 541 382 6414 indexer@ibm.net Sherry L Smith INDEXING SERVICES 1208 NW 13th St. Bend, OR 97701 541 382 6414 indexer@ibm.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:24:18 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Robin Hilp Subject: backup drives All this discussion of zip drives prompts me to ask ... Has anyone experience with SyQuest EZ-Flyer 230? We just installed one ... no problems yet ... but would prefer to experience any horrors vicariously ... == RolyBear, icq-1863181 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 10:12:46 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Horowitz Subject: Re: Fwd: hi...and a request for help with iso999 You might be able to find it on the home page for the International Standards Organization http://www.hike.te.chiba-u.ac.jp/ikeda/ISO/home.html If that URL no longer works, use one of the search Engines to find the organization. Roberta Horowitz y>Dear INDEX-L: > >I received the attached message this morning and figured that the quickest way >to find an answer to her question would be to pass it on to the group. Can >anyone help her find what she needs? > >Thanks for your help, >Sandy > >y >From: Maura514@aol.com >Return-path: >To: SCTopping@aol.com >Subject: hi...and a request for help with iso999 >Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:15:34 EST >Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > >Hi, >My name is Maura Young, I am a grad student at IUPUI in Information Science. >I am taking a class that involves information indexing and am doing a project >about ISO and indexing. My project participants and I are having a devil of a >time locating a copy of ISO999. > >Can you help us? Any other information about indexing and standards would >also be appreciated. > >Thanks!!! >Maura E. Young >Maura514@aol.com > >--part0_886598866_boundary-- > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 15:30:38 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Melissa C. Moore" <55742@PEACHNET.CAMPUS.MCI.NET> Organization: Middle Georgia College Subject: Meetings Hello everyone: I am new to the list so please forgive my lack of knowledge here. Does anyone know of any meetings in the southern states, particularly Georgia?I hope to travel to Seattle in May but timing and funding make it more difficult. Thank you, C. Melissa Moore Catalog Librarian ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 16:07:52 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Seth A. Maislin" Subject: Re: Meetings In-Reply-To: "Melissa C. Moore" <55742@peachnet.campus.mci.net> "Meetings" (Feb 4, 3:30pm) > I am new to the list so please forgive my lack of knowledge here. Does > anyone know of any meetings in the southern states, particularly > Georgia?I hope to travel to Seattle in May but timing and funding make it > more difficult. Melissa, ASI (American Society of Indexers) lists local chapter meetings on the Web at http://www.well.com/user/asi/chapters.htm . In addition, special interest groups have meetings (see http://www.well.com/user/asi/sigs.htm .) Take a look at these sites to find meetings that are close to you. - Seth -- Seth A. Maislin (seth@oreilly.com) O'Reilly & Associates Focus Publishing Services 90 Sherman Street 89 Grove Street Cambridge MA 02140 Watertown MA 02172-2826 (617) 499-7439 phone (617) 924-4428 (617) 661-1116 facsimile smaislin@world.std.com URL: http://www.oreilly.com/~seth Webmaster, Amer Soc of Indexers: http://www.well.com/user/asi ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 16:39:38 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pamela Venneman Subject: marketing Good Afternoon, Here is a question that has come to me as I continue calling looking for that first client. Would any of you like to guess what the percentage of publishers that use freelance indexers might be? Obviously most of the companies I have been calling do not use free-lancers, or even seem to know what I am talking about. Just curious... TIA Pamela Venneman Lighthouse Indexing Services ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 14:08:01 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: marketing At 04:39 PM 2/4/1998 EST, Pamela Venneman wrote: >Here is a question that has come to me as I continue calling looking for that >first client. Would any of you like to guess what the percentage of >publishers that use freelance indexers might be? Obviously most of the >companies I have been calling do not use free-lancers, or even seem to know >what I am talking about. I would say that almost all smaller publishers use freelancers if they produce indexes at all. In el-hi publishing, most companies seem to use freelancers as well. I'm not certain about academic publishing, since it's not my field of expertise, but I imagine many do hire freelancers. Larger trade publishers may indeed maintain an in-house staff, but most either use freelancers exclusively or hire out work occasionally. I'm curious...who are you calling, and how did you come up with your choices? I'm surprised you are turning up publishers who don't even seem to know what you're talking about when you ask this question. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:21:39 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: marketing At 02:08 PM 2/4/98 -0800, you wrote: >I'm curious...who are you calling, and how did you come up with your >choices? I'm surprised you are turning up publishers who don't even seem to >know what you're talking about when you ask this question. I've seen this phenomenon. It usually happens when you reach a receptionist. In such cases, I gave up trying to explain what I was looking for. (If I said: "Connect me to the person who hires freelance indexers." I invariably found myself transferred to the personnel dept.) I now simply ask to speak to the production editor. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:01:53 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: marketing I really don't have any percentages on publishers who rely on inhouse indexers rather than freelancers. I would venture a couple of observations (opinons). One is that many university presses, when asked, will state that their authors create their own indexes and neglect to mention that some authors opt out of that at the beginning and other authors begin the index and subsequently decide it's a task they would gladly pay to have done. A reasonable marketing approach, especially when you hear the phrase "the authors *are responsible* for the index" is to ask if the press keeps a contingency list of indexers and whether you might submit your resume to be added to the list. Another is (and this can be refuted or confirmed by those who specialize in indexing computer manuals) that publishers of computer manuals often seem to have staffs of inhouse indexers. You didn't mention your target market. If it is narrow, that may have something to do with the reception you are getting. And finally, it might just be the luck of the draw regarding whom you are talking to. I've had the same experience when stating that I am a "freelance indexer" and have gotten the impression that the party on the other end heard "hamplit forbisher." Persistence is key in cold calling. And don't neglect networking which is often much more productive. Carry a supply of business cards at all times. Hope this helps. Craig Brown ========================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing (314)352-9094 www.i1.net/~lastword ========================================== ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 18:17:51 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: marketing At 05:01 PM 2/4/98 -0500, you wrote: > >Another is (and this can be refuted or confirmed by those who specialize >in indexing computer manuals) that publishers of computer manuals often >seem to have staffs of inhouse indexers. > I know of only one such with in-house indexers. On the other hand, there are only about a half dozen computer publishers in the country (not counting software development shops). Dick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 19:43:44 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: A Poem, on the completion of a troublesome index This pesky entry, "drag and drop!" I've put it under "Photoshop" The question is: drag what? and why? I guess I'd better specify. So now I've put it at the top (this pesky entry, "drag and drop") And listed all the kinds of files That one can drag--a list for miles! From Illustrator, Quark, and Bryce And Quark and... oops, oh no! That's twice. This pesky entry, "drag and drop" I realy wish this book would stop. So now the index is complete. My fingers feel dead on their feet. I think my brain is going to pop! This pesky entry, "drag and drop." Ann ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 07:11:02 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DBRENNER@AOL.COM Subject: Software (Again) I'm about to spring the big bucks for an indexing program. I want a windows- based program, have read the previews of both Cindex and Sky Index in Keywords, have used the Cindex Dos demo and downloaded and used (a little) the Sky Index demo and . . .I still can't figure which one to go with. The question: Has anyone had experience *using* both who could really tell me the differences and advantages of each or, alternatively, has anyone used either one who could tell me any problems or limitations they've encountered. If all things really are equal I'm inclined to go with SkyIndex because they give a discount to ASI members. But I don't want to be penny wise and pound foolish. Thanks. Diane Brenner P.O. Box 206 Worthington, MA 01098 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 06:30:28 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Joanne E. Clendenen" Organization: AfterWords Indexing Services Subject: South Central Chapter Conference AMERICAN SOCIETY OF INDEXERS South Central Chapter SPRING MEETING, 1998 Editing the Index: Decisions, Decisions, Decisions A Practical Workshop Presented by Kay Banning and Linda Webster This intermediate-level workshop provides editing techniques and checklists with examples from a variety of subject fields in both book and journal indexing. Practical suggestions and hands-on exercises address wording of main headings and subheadings, conceptual structure of the index, cross-references and shortening of the index. Editing the index= Substantive editing + Copyediting and Proofreading. Linda Webster has been indexing for 20 years, and has been a full-time freelance indexer for 14 years. She produces back-of-the-book indexes primarily in the humanities and social sciences for university textbooks, scholarly university press books, and trade books. She has also done periodical and database indexing, and is beginning to do occasional CD ROM indexing. Linda has taught the Indexing and Abstracting course at the University of Texas Graduate School of Library and Information Science in Austin. Kay Banning began indexing 7 years ago, as an apprentice under Linda Webster. She primarily produces back-of-the-book indexes for university press books, college textbooks, and trade books in the humanities, social sciences, education and history. She also has experience in journal indexing and database indexing. Kay has an MLS from Indiana University and served as a reference librarian in academic and public libraries before launching her freelance business. DATE: March 28, 1998 LOCATION: Radisson Hotel near Hobby Airport in Houston, Texas (9100 Gulf Freeway, Houston, 77017) CONTACTS: Laura Rustin at 713-728-4473/E-Mail: lrr@freebird.ghofn.org OR Joanne Clendenen at 281-469-4461/E-Mail: jbclend@bigfoot.com SCHEDULE OF EVENTS: 9:00 a.m. - 12:00 p.m. Editing the Index, Part I 12:00 p.m. - 1:00 p.m. Luncheon Buffet at Radisson Hotel 1:00 p.m. - 4:00 p.m. Editing the Index, Part II 4:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m. South Central Chapter Business Meeting COSTS: $60.00 per ASI member $75.00 per non-member Registration includes the all-day workshop, plus mini-continental breakfast, hot buffet lunch and post-lunch snacks. Please make checks payable to ASI South Central Chapter, and mail to our treasurer: Laura Rustin 9731 Greenwillow Houston, TX 77096 Laura will provide receipts upon request. LODGING: $69.00 per night Call the Radisson at 713-943-7979 to reserve a room. In order to receive the above rate, you must mention the American Society of Indexers conference, and in order to guarantee availability, you must place your reservation by Feb 14. After that date, reservations will be accepted on a space- and rate-available basis. GETTING THERE: The Radisson is located on the West side of the Gulf Freeway (I-45). If you are coming by plane, Hobby Airport is about 1/2 mile from the hotel. The Radisson provides shuttle service from the airport to the hotel. Ask about the shuttle when you make hotel reservations. For those driving in, the hotel is on the southbound side of I-45 in Southeast Houston, just beyond the Airport Blvd to Hobby. When you drive south on I45, you need to take the College Airport exit; the hotel will be off the frontage road on your right. -- AfterWords Indexing Services Joanne E. Clendenen email: jbclend@bigfoot.com http://www.flash.net/~jbclend ---------------- "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not any simpler." Einstein ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 13:56:24 -0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Tim Briggs Subject: Indexer required for computer publisher >Hello, > >I was given your mailing list address by Sarah Lemaire. > >I'm an editor at Wrox Press - we publish computer programming books, and have >need of an indexer for a number of projects at the moment. Deadlines for >publication are mid Feb and end March in my group. > >We work in Word, and embed indexes in documents. We have a tool to assist >with adding the entries, as I know how difficult this can become. > >Please let me know if you're interested and I can send you details, a style >guide and a chapter to start. > >Look forward to hearing from you. > >Thanks > >Timothy Timothy Briggs, Editor Wrox Press 30 Lincoln Road Olton Birmingham, B27 6PA, UK Tel - (44121) 706 6826; Fax - (44121) 706 2967 timb@wrox.com; timb@mail.wrox.co.uk; http://www.wrox.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 09:00:38 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: To JEAN THOMPSON Very sorry to clutter up the list but I've sent several msgs to Jean and they keep bouncing. Jean, I am unable to respond to your message. Try again, or call me, or send me your phone #. Sorry everyone else. Rachel Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 09:18:03 -0600 Reply-To: bookend@theonramp.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Danzi Hernandez Subject: Re: Software (Again) > > If all things really are equal I'm inclined to go with SkyIndex because they > give a discount to ASI members. But I don't want to be penny wise and pound > foolish. Thanks. Diane, I don't think this will be an issue with Sky Index Pro. I started using the Professional version a couple months ago and I am very happy with it. It is very user friendly, so the learning curve isn't steep. I haven't used all the "whistles and bells" yet, but I find more shortcuts every time I use it. Susan Hernandez ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 10:19:26 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pamela Venneman Subject: Re: marketing In a message dated 98-02-04 17:20:03 EST, you write: << I'm curious...who are you calling, and how did you come up with your choices? I'm surprised you are turning up publishers who don't even seem to know what you're talking about when you ask this question. >> Good Morning Sonsie, Just to clarify...some of the publishers' employees that answer the phone do not know what I am talking about and transfer me to the Human Resources departments who tell me they are not hiring...click. Others I do get to explain "what I am", and they are all amazement. The names I have been choosing, remembering that I am looking for my first job, are from LMP in fields such as how-to, children's non-fiction, etc. I guess I am not approaching this in the right way. Pamela Venneman Lighthouse Indexing Services ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 10:27:40 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Chris Carr Subject: Re: marketing In a message dated 98-02-04 16:51:53 EST, you write: > Here is a question that has come to me as I continue calling looking for that > first client. Would any of you like to guess what the percentage of > publishers that use freelance indexers might be? Obviously most of the > companies I have been calling do not use free-lancers, or even seem to know > what I am talking about. > Just curious... > TIA Funny you should mention this now, because yesterday I called a few publishers for the first time. I had prepared what I thought was a good list from Writer's Market, but the ones that I called said they didn't use indexers. After a few of these, I thought I better double-check my list. I had done what I intended, so that wasn't the problem...Then I thought maybe I should not ask the first person who answers the phone (because a few of them sounded like they didn't have the time or inclination to understand what I was talking about). Maybe I should ask for an editor in the subject area I'm interested in. What makes a production editor a production editor? Other terms I see are "managing editor", "editor-in-chief", etc. Are these all one and the same? Is there just one person at each of these companies that will hear me?! :-) Comments? Thanks, Chris Carr cccjlc@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 09:32:22 -0600 Reply-To: bookend@theonramp.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Danzi Hernandez Subject: Re: marketing > Here is a question that has come to me as I continue calling looking for that > first client. Would any of you like to guess what the percentage of > publishers that use freelance indexers might be? Obviously most of the > companies I have been calling do not use free-lancers, or even seem to know > what I am talking about. Pamela, If you'd like some hard numbers, I'm finding that only 1/4 of the publishers I call use freelancers, and I've called over 70. I'm calling in the science/ technology and business/management subject areas. Size doesn't seem to be a factor: some small publishers say they're too small to do that, some bigger ones don't hire freelancers, either. I've gotten several "what is a freelance indexer?" responses. One person I spoke with is an editor, but when I asked if they hire freelance indexers for their books, she said "what books?" I said, "The ones you publish." She said, "Oh, those books!" Ugh!!! Susan Hernandez ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 10:43:45 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: marketing In-Reply-To: <3829c0e2.34d9da6f@aol.com> I have had fairly good luck asking to be connected to the person who hires freelancers, without saying "indexers" to the first person I talk to. Usually that person will either say, "that's me" or they'll know the company doesn't use them, or they'll know who I should talk to. I rarely get Human Resources anymore now that I use this approach. I still have my favorite response: "Oh, we don't have a program like that." Rachel Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:53:00 +0000 Reply-To: hcalvert@macrex.cix.co.uk Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Drusilla Calvert Subject: Macrex users - emergency support We've heard through the grapevine that this week's floods and appalling weather affecting the San Francisco area have made communications very difficult, so if any North American Macrex users are having problems getting through to we'll be very glad to help out. Our e-mail address is is below. We are also available for phone support during our waking hours, but since we're five hours ahead of Eastern Standard Time we would appreciate your discretion in choosing the time you call - but of course if it's a real emergency we will try to be coherent whatever time you call! Time differences - some examples: 9am in New York is 2pm our time 9am in San Francisco is 5pm our time but 7pm in New York is 12 midnight here 7pm in San Francisco is 2am (ouch!!) here Drusilla and Hilary Calvert MACREX Indexing Services hcalvert@macrex.cix.co.uk http://www.macrex.cix.co.uk/ Phone/fax number +44 191 414 2595 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 11:15:41 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: marketing - who to call Re: Who To Call at a Publishing House In my experience, either ask who hires freelancers, as Rachel suggested, or ask for the Production Manager or Production Editor. Yes, Chris, there are various types of editors. There are acquisition editors, series editors, production editors, managing editors, etc. The only ones you want to be talking to are in the Book Production Department (or the Journal Production Department). The indexing falls at the end of the Book Production process, so that's the department in the publishing house you need to be connected to, no matter what the job title. I usually try to ask for the Production Manager and see if that does the trick. If there's no such person, just ask to be connected with Book Production department and ask the person who answers the phone there. At least you're in the right area of the firm. Never talk to Human Resources. That's a waste of your time, as they have nothing to do with freelancers. They recruit for and hire fulltime staff. So if you get that for an answer, hang up. You're wasting your time. Hope this helps everybody. I learned the hard way too. Lots of long-distance calls that yielded no results until I caught on. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 11:08:20 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: business organization -- help! As my business is picking up (hooray!), it's becoming clear that I need a better organizational system for keeping track of things. I'd appreciate, on or off list, any advice people can give. All business expenses and income are tracked in Quicken. Since I don't have a separate business credit card or bank account, everything is run through our personal finances, but tagged as "Indexing" in Quicken. Should I a) have an entirely separate Quicken database for the indexing business? (This would currently entail entering things twice.) b) open a business checking/savings account and get a business credit card? I'm currently using my own name, rather than a company name, so I wasn't sure this was necessary. I'd like to set up a database or spreadsheet which could keep track of all the following information: publisher's name, book title, author, date the index was submitted, invoice amount, date the payment was received, time spent on index, etc. Does anyone have any software suggestions? (Right now I do it all in a Word Perfect file, but that can't keep a total of what I'm owed and what I've received and so forth, and it's a pain to update.) I use Starfish's Sidekick program for scheduling and client information. I have separate "cardfiles" for publishers I've contacted, clients, and indexer contacts. This system works pretty well, and I try to keep a backup on floppy, but should I have a hardcopy rolodex as well? If so, what are the advantages and disadvantages? How have you folks set up your filing system for client correspondence, etc? What materials do you/don't you keep? Do you file correspondence by publisher, by editor, by project? Do you file invoices and shipping receipts by publisher/project, or all together by date, or some other system? I'd really like to hear specifics about what does and doesn't work for you. While I have some ideas on how to set up my file system, I want to make sure I don't have to revamp the whole thing a year or two down the road! What do you keep in hardcopy, and what do you keep on floppy disk or other electronic media? How long do you keep completed indexes, and in what form? Do you keep the page proofs, and if so, how long (and how on earth do you store them, if you keep them past receipt of the check?) Do any of you keep copies of every marketing letter you send out? Why or why not? Are there any other organizational tips/tricks/pitfalls you can offer? TIA, Kara Pekar jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 10:39:43 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Sloan Subject: Re: marketing - list of publishers I know there are lists of publishers elsewhere but what about a list of publishers that hire freelancers (particularly indexers). I don't know if there's actually one out there but could we assemble a list of those publishers whom we know do hire freelancers? This could save a number of us time and money spent in cold calling places who don't want to hear from us. Just my two cents, but is there any reason why we can't build up such a list? Linda Sloan ************************************************** Linda Kenny Sloan Information Universe Editorial services for the space industry Editing, indexing, proofreading email indexer@ix.netcom.com URL http://pw1.netcom.com/~indexer/infouniv.htm ************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 11:51:27 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Wright Subject: Re: marketing -Reply Job titles can mean anything and nothing. However, if you ask for something like a "production editor," it will force the switchboard operator to find SOMEONE to direct your call to! I am an in-house indexer, but my official job title is "Legal Analyst," which I think sounds like I ought to be doing color commetary on Court TV! :-) Until about a month ago, it was "Law Editor," which wasn't a whole lot more helpful (since we primarily produce statutes and codes, what else would I be editing?). Editors-in-chief are usually pretty high-ranking individuals, which means that a) you probably won't get through to talk to him/her, and b) you are just as likely to get a brush-off even if you get through. The EIC is probably the one who will ultimately have to approve hiring you, but may not be the best person to talk to initially. The managing editor generally reports to the editor-in-chief, and depending on the company may be the person that you need to talk to, as he or she may have the final decision-making authority. Of course, this varies from company to company. I think that the suggestion of asking for a "production editor" or perhaps a managing editor is a good one. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 11:53:16 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Cohen Subject: Re: marketing - who to call Just a note to augment what Janet posted: Some publishers assign hiring of freelancers to the Managing Editor, who is not always in the production department. I find that this is often the case with scholarly publishers. Barbara ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 11:59:54 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Cohen Subject: Re: business organization -- help! Regarding bookkeeping: You should keep all of your business files separate from your personal files, especially if you maintain an office in your home (in case the IRS looks for that "intent to be a business" stuff). You should keep income and receipts of the business in separate files, maintain a separate bank account for the business (paying expenses from this account and depositing income here only, while writing yourself a "salary" check periodically), and have a separate phone line, among other things. Having a separate credit card can be a good idea too, especially for business travel expenses and emergency computer repairs! Some of these things sound like subjects your accountant should be advising you about. Or read "Small-Time Operator" by Bernard Kamoroff, for information on simple filing and bookkeeping systems. My CPA thinks my records are fine, and I have followed Kamoroff's advise for 14 years. Barbara ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 08:58:19 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Vicki Birchfield Subject: Re: hi...and a request for help with iso999 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD3214.4091BEB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, You can order ISO999 from http://www.ansi.org/catalog/search.html It's TC 46/SC9 (Technical Committee 46, Subcommittee 9) ICS: 01.140.40 Price Code: R ($82.00) 47 pages Hope this helps, Vicki Birchfield ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD3214.4091BEB0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IigQAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYA9AEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAWgAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAEluZGV4ZXIncyBEaXNj dXNzaW9uIEdyb3VwAFNNVFAASU5ERVgtTEBCSU5HVk1CLkNDLkJJTkdIQU1UT04uRURVAAAAHgAC MAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAACIAAABJTkRFWC1MQEJJTkdWTUIuQ0MuQklOR0hBTVRP Ti5FRFUAAAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAdAAAAJ0luZGV4ZXIncyBEaXNjdXNzaW9u IEdyb3VwJwAAAAACAQswAQAAACcAAABTTVRQOklOREVYLUxAQklOR1ZNQi5DQy5CSU5HSEFNVE9O LkVEVQAAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAB4A9l8BAAAAGwAAAEluZGV4ZXIncyBEaXNjdXNzaW9uIEdy b3VwAAACAfdfAQAAAFoAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAABJbmRleGVyJ3MgRGlzY3Vz c2lvbiBHcm91cABTTVRQAElOREVYLUxAQklOR1ZNQi5DQy5CSU5HSEFNVE9OLkVEVQAAAAMA/V8B AAAAAwD/XwAAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAACQWgBBIABACwAAABSRTogaGkuLi5hbmQgYSByZXF1 ZXN0IGZvciBoZWxwIHdpdGggaXNvOTk5AEsOAQWAAwAOAAAAzgcCAAUACAA6ABMABAA1AQEggAMA DgAAAM4HAgAFAAgANgAsAAQASgEBCYABACEAAABGMTdGMDA5MDU2MzJCRDExQUM1MTUyOTg2QkNE NkVCNAAnBwEDkAYAgAQAACEAAAALAAIAAQAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMALgAA AAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAAAe0QlcyvQEeAHAAAQAAACwAAABSRTogaGkuLi5hbmQgYSByZXF1ZXN0 IGZvciBoZWxwIHdpdGggaXNvOTk5AAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG9MldCp82pLgOeSRHRgVoAAAAAAAAA AB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAVAAAAdmJpcmNoQGFjY2Vzc29uZS5jb20AAAAA AwAGEME3rPoDAAcQrAAAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAEhJLFlPVUNBTk9SREVSSVNPOTk5RlJPTUhUVFA6 Ly9XV1dBTlNJT1JHL0NBVEFMT0cvU0VBUkNISFRNTElUU1RDNDYvU0M5KFRFQ0hOSUNBTENPTU1J VFRFRTQ2LFNVQkNPTU0AAAAAAgEJEAEAAABNAQAASQEAALcBAABMWkZ1IJ5c7gMACgByY3BnMTI1 FjIA+Atgbg4QMDMznQH3IAKkA+MCAGNoCsBgc2V0MCAHEwKAfbMKgAjIIDsJbw4wNQKA2QqBdWMA UAsDYwBBC7ZjCrEKgEhpLBW0FbRZOQhgIGMDkQWwBIEgSWhTTzkYECADUgMwdQUDIGgCQHA6Ly93 lRlQLgByLgWwZy8XQL8BkAkAGgARMArAEPAuGOAebQlQGLAVpRW0SXQnAQQgVEMgNDYvU6ZDGDAd MChUBZBoAwDHF0ADIAhQbW1pAkAJ4GUcwSwGAHViBaAeNjkCKRv1Q1M6IDAxYC4xNDAuINAVtFC9 BRBjHpAIUAEAIHBSHTJAJDgyLjAwH9U0NDcgCrBnB5AWSkhvMnAekHRoBAAY0GVsFHBzFjtWDeBr aSDUQmka0WYIkGwLMRZoBRHxAChgAAAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAAMAgBD/////QAAHMOCnNsJW Mr0BQAAIMOCnNsJWMr0BCwAAgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAA4UAAAAAAAADAAKACCAGAAAA AADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAQhQAAAAAAAAMABYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFKFAAC3DQAAHgAl gAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAVIUAAAEAAAAEAAAAOC4wAAMAJoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABG AAAAAAGFAAAAAAAACwAvgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAADoUAAAAAAAADADCACCAGAAAAAADA AAAAAAAARgAAAAARhQAAAAAAAAMAMoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABiFAAAAAAAAHgBBgAgg BgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAANoUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AQoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAA ADeFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAEOACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA4hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAA HgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAADAA00/TcAABjN ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD3214.4091BEB0-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 12:02:07 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: business organization -- help! In-Reply-To: > I'd appreciate, >on or off list, any advice people can give. Nothing personal, Kara, but jeesh, I wish people would stop suggesting/requesting that advice be given off list. I want to know what people have to say about everything. Anything I end up not interested in, like Macrex which I don't use for example, I just delete. IMO, the only time we should be requesting off-list responses is for answers to surveys when the asker plans to post a summary, or for things that are totally off topic. I'm on this list to read what people have to say about everything. I never know when something might be of use. My 2 cents. Sorry, Kara, this is absolutely nothing personal. I just see that a lot and it's frustrating. Cranky due to no breakfast. Going to eat lunch now. Rachel Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 12:34:43 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: business organization -- help! Kara, Re Financial Records (my take on things!) It would be better if you had a separate checking account, and kept all business stuff separated from the personal (my accountant's advice). At first I used just a personal account that was only in my name, just that it wasn't our joint household account and I used it for business only. They will not put a business name on checks or in any way on a personal account. But .... they're cheaper. Just don't tell the bank what it is for, and it is a personal account to all intents and purposes. This works until you begin getting too many checks made out to a business name, and then the bank will balk, and rightfully so. At that point, I established a business account, which carries my name and my business name, both. As for credit card, I appropriated one Visa card for my business (just one more joint Visa in my husband's and my name -- not in the business name). I keep all other stuff off of it, so I know this is just for business. I pay it myself, out of my business checking account. Invoices should be filed in a separate file of their own, by date. That way you can always look to see what you're owed. When you get paid for a job, staple the check stub to the invoice, and note the date received. Then you have a file to support your income spreadsheet on computer, and you can see at a glance what is owed and for how long. If you wish to keep a copy of the invoice in the client file also, that isn't a bad idea. Hope this helps. It's really the tip of the iceberg! Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 09:43:00 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Looking for Keith Baxter Apologies for sending this to Index-L; but I need to get in touch with Keith Baxter re his subscription to Index-NW. Keith, if you are an index-L subscriber, please contact me at cweaver@u.washington.edu. Thanks, Carolyn Weaver Index-NW listowner ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 12:55:16 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Holler Subject: USDA's second course I am curious as to how many indexers have taken the USDA' s applied indexing course. After completing the first course, I thought taking the second course would help in several ways to fill the time until I get that first paying job. If anyone who have taken the course will give me (and probably others) some feedback as to their thoughts about the course, it would be greatly appreciated at this point. Thanks in advance, Susan D. Holler ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 10:03:21 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Shirley K Warkentin Subject: Re: iso999 I recently found the book at the web site for the American National Standards Institute: http://www.ansi.org It is a 47-page book and costs $82. >I am taking a class that involves information indexing and am doing a >project >about ISO and indexing. My project participants and I are having a >devil of a >time locating a copy of ISO999. I consider Nancy Mulvany's book, "Indexing Books," to be my standard for indexing. (1994, University of Chicago Press) > >Can you help us? Any other information about indexing and standards >would >also be appreciated. > Shirley Warkentin Cornerstone Indexing indexing@juno.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 13:16:08 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Cohen Subject: Re: business organization -- help! Janet: Sorry, I keep seeing things to amend in your comments. It isn't anything personal! Just my 2 cents on things.... My "business" account does have my business name on it even though it is a regular personal checking account, not a business account in the bank's sense. So ask at your bank about putting your business name on your checks. This is possible at some banks and savings and loans (mine is on a separate line under my name), but you have to ask (and stress that you are opening a low-volume account, as in general we write and receive fewer checks than the average businessperson that banks gear their business accounts to). I find it a convenience to keep my business checking account at a different bank than my personal account, plus the checks are different colors. I feel that I have two bankers rather than one, as a result. Ditto for credit cards with separate companies. Okay, it is a hassle to go to 2 different banks, but as they have different hours and different services, plus different geographic locations around town for their branch offices and ATM machines, I feel like I can always access some of my money somewhere! Also, I pay myself a somewhat regular "salary" out of the business account, which helps compensate for the vagaries of the feast-or-famine payments we get. Having this account at a separate bank (that is somewhat less accessible for me) helps me to think of it as the business's money, not mine personally. That helps to accrue some money for the necessary computer upgrades, conference expenses, tax payments, etc. If you keep it all in your personal account, how do you know how much you have to spend? Keeping a separate tally on paper somewhere would be confusing for me, I guess. (I don't have the kind of accounting system that would tell me just what my assets are on a day-to-day basis.) I can look at my checking account balance and know just how much money I can spend.... Barbara ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 13:34:23 -0500 Reply-To: brocindx@catskill.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kevin A. Broccoli" Organization: Broccoli Indexing Services Subject: Re: USDA's second course Susan Holler wrote: > > I am curious as to how many indexers have taken the USDA' s applied > indexing course. After completing the first course, I thought taking the > second course would help in several ways to fill the time until I get that > first paying job. > If anyone who have taken the course will give me (and probably others) some > feedback as to their thoughts about the course, it would be greatly > appreciated at this point. > > Thanks in advance, > > Susan D. Holler Susan: I am about 1/2-way through with the USDA's secound course (Applied Indexing). It is wonderful. I find it is more difficult than the first course, and I like the fact that the teacher takes on the role of a publisher that you would be working for. This creates a sort of real-life environment. I feel that my skills have improved tremendously since starting the course. However, don't feel bad if you don't do as well grade-wise as with the first course. One has to remember that they are taking the course to learn, and just benefit from all the red ink on the returned indexes. The material to be indexed includes chapters from a history book, a booklet on the environment, chapters from a book on psychology, and chapters from a biography. It's good to that you are already thinking of marketing while taking the secound course. I have begun doing this too, and it gives me something to do between the long span of time of sending and receiving lessons and grades. Hope this helps. Kevin A. Broccoli Broccoli Indexing Services brocindx@catskill.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 13:33:59 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: Re: business organization -- help! John and Kara Pekar wrote: > As my business is picking up (hooray!), it's becoming clear that I need a > better organizational system for keeping track of things. I'd appreciate, > on or off list, any advice people can give. > > All business expenses and income are tracked in Quicken. Since I don't > have a separate business credit card or bank account, everything is run > through our personal finances, but tagged as "Indexing" in Quicken. Should > I a) have an entirely separate Quicken database for the indexing business? > (This would currently entail entering things twice.) b) open a business > checking/savings account and get a business credit card? I'm currently > using my own name, rather than a company name, so I wasn't sure this was > necessary. As others have mentioned, you really should keep business and personal completely separate. For me, that means four accounts in Quicken (all in the same database): Ann Checking, Ann Savings, Crossover Checking, Crossover Savings. All indexing income goes into Crossover Checking, and then is distributed from there... to me! :-) > I'd like to set up a database or spreadsheet which could keep track of all > the following information: publisher's name, book title, author, date the > index was submitted, invoice amount, date the payment was received, time > spent on index, etc. Does anyone have any software suggestions? Also: client style guidelines, contact information, special instructions, phone quote forms, e-mail tracking, job history, invoice tracking, etc. I can't tell you the number of different Contact Manager and PIM (Personal Information Manager) software programs I've tried. Here's what I use now: MySoftware Company products: MyAdvancedInvoices and MyAdvancedMailingList. These two track client contact info and invoices sent and paid. They don't, however, share data between programs. That is, they are not integrated. Quicken 6 for checking and savings accounts. TraxTime for an on-screen time clock. Netscape Communicator for filing and tracking e-mail. A set of Word 6 and Publisher 97 templates for letterhead, cover letters, marketing communications, resume, list of titles indexed, promotional brochure, etc. I keep them organized in folders on my Windows 95 desktop, with meaningful-to-me names. Hardcopy hanging file folders for client guidelines, style sheets, notes with special instructions. Folders on Windows 95 desktop with client archives (indexes). I don't go anywhere, ever, without my hardcopy Franklin Planner, which has lots of client contact info in it, as well as my calendar. I'm looking at CalQuick again, and some of the other calendar programs that let you put your calendar--updateable--on a Web page. This is what I need for coordinating my work with other freelancers. I desperately want some software that can keep everything together, integrated, sharing info, etc. The only thing I've seen that came close was Microsoft Outlook, and it is a system resource PIG. I don't have it any more. Basically, the three parts I want are: calender/scheduling, contact management, invoicing/financial. Advice? Suggestions? Here are some other things I've tried, and rejected for various reasons: Jot BetterLetter SureTrack TASKey Edesk Milestones CalQuick todolist AboveBeyond Visual Office PSA Cards PostIt Notes Expert Software Forms Commence 4.0 Project Manager Pro TeleMagic Professional TeleMagic Enterprise iBase DayTimer InfoSelect Ascend 5.0 Lotus Organizer ACT! NowUpToDate I currently have alrge box of 5x8 index cards on my desk, waiting for me to devise a system. >(Right > now I do it all in a Word Perfect file, but that can't keep a total of what > I'm owed and what I've received and so forth, and it's a pain to update.) > > I use Starfish's Sidekick program for scheduling and client information. I > have separate "cardfiles" for publishers I've contacted, clients, and > indexer contacts. This system works pretty well, and I try to keep a > backup on floppy, but should I have a hardcopy rolodex as well? If so, > what are the advantages and disadvantages? > > How have you folks set up your filing system for client correspondence, > etc? What materials do you/don't you keep? Do you file correspondence by > publisher, by editor, by project? Do you file invoices and shipping > receipts by publisher/project, or all together by date, or some other > system? I'd really like to hear specifics about what does and doesn't work > for you. While I have some ideas on how to set up my file system, I want > to make sure I don't have to revamp the whole thing a year or two down the > road! My invoicing software lets me sort by date, of client, or just about anything. I find I need all these different sorts at various times. The main thing to keep in mind about a filing system is: where would YOU expect to find something. If you always go to the project name looking for the invoice, don't file it under the company name! > What do you keep in hardcopy, and what do you keep on floppy disk or other > electronic media? All letters, indexes, invoices, and anything else I can generate on the computer stays as electronic media. Faxes I send and receive sit an a box under the fax machine. How long do you keep completed indexes, and in what > form? Do you keep the page proofs, and if so, how long (and how on earth > do you store them, if you keep them past receipt of the check?) > > Do any of you keep copies of every marketing letter you send out? Why or > why not? > > Are there any other organizational tips/tricks/pitfalls you can offer? Always use trial versions and free downloads of software for a good long time before buying. :-) As this note probably demonstrates better than I can describe, my filing and organization are still, shall we say, developing. I can put my hands on what I need when I need it, but I also have the feeling that another growth spurt may change that--I still keep a lot of info in my head, which is exactly where is DOESN'T belong. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 13:34:21 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marlene London Subject: Indexing question In a history book I am currently indexing, Benjamin Harrison, Grover Cleveland, and William McKinney are discussed. The latter was President during the time of the subject matter covered. In the index, though, would I call each of them President? i.e.: Cleveland, President Grover Harrison, President Benjamin McKinney, President William Marlene London Profindex@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 13:45:40 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: business organization -- help! Barbara, Yes, nothing personal. :-) I think what we are seeing here, vis a vis business names on personal accounts, might be a difference in state banking laws. In Arizona, the arrangement you have with a personal account having a business name is impossible. So you all need to be aware of this and check with your bank. At least now you know the right questions to ask. I like the idea of paying yourself a salary out of the business. I do write checks out of my business account to put into the home budget, but not a regular amount. It's more as needed. But what a cool idea -- to pay yourself regularly. Might increase the satisfaction level and lower the frustration level sometimes. To all of you new indexers -- even though your business is small, very small -- I would advise you to treat it as a business from the start. It helps frame your thinking in terms of business. I have a saying up on my wall (one of many) that reads: "My present thoughts determine my future." I heard it once at a motivational seminar/workshop, and that is the type of thing I'm talking about here. It does help -- immensely. Place your activities in a business context from the start. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 14:03:17 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nancy Noyes Subject: Re: business organization -- help! Janet, I wrote to Kay offline detailing my own practices, but thought I'd comment on your 'paycheck' theory. It is what I do -- it can be frustrating as my 'business bank' is 30 min away (am waiting for an ATM card to use at local ATM of theirs) if I need to do fancy things, but feel it is appropriate and a better way to prevent overspending. I pay myself every 2 weeks (when I bill my client), and would like to pay me a regular amount, but haven't decided what is a 'safe' amount. It is necessary to keep a reserve fund in the account for unforeseen expenses, etc. I think that's the only bad thing about making me a business -- I know I've got all this money in the account (LOL), but I can now only have a part of it instead of the whole thing. Bummer! We in MA can have a business name on a 'personal' account if you are a DBA and use your SS# instead of getting a taxpayer ID. I was advised that I won't need a taxpyr # unless I start paying another employee and needing to cover their benefits and unemployment comp, etc. So far, so good. Nancy Noyes All Write ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 14:12:47 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Wright Subject: Indexing question -Reply I hope it's just a typo, if not you need to have a big talk with your publisher FAST! The 25th President of the United States was William McKinley, not McKinney! :-) Even after a president retires, he is still afforded the honorable title of President. (That's why you still here references to President Carter, President Ford, etc.). However, for index purposes, I don't think it's necessary to include the title at all unless you have references to other people with the same name who weren't presidents! :-) >>> Marlene London 02/05/98 01:34pm >>> In a history book I am currently indexing, Benjamin Harrison, Grover Cleveland, and William McKinney are discussed. The latter was President during the time of the subject matter covered. In the index, though, would I call each of them President? i.e.: Cleveland, President Grover Harrison, President Benjamin McKinney, President William Marlene London Profindex@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 08:27:09 +1300 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Simon Cauchi Subject: Re: Indexing question Marlene London asks: >In a history book I am currently indexing, Benjamin Harrison, Grover >Cleveland, and William McKinney are discussed. The latter was President >during the time of the subject matter covered. In the index, though, would >I call each of them President? i.e.: > >Cleveland, President Grover >Harrison, President Benjamin >McKinney, President William No. Surname and forename will do for all three. I recently indexed both a regimental history and a history of the Catholic church in NZ. In both books, people were mentioned who rose up the ranks over the years. It would have been pointless to record all their different positions (Fr., Mgr., Co-adjutor Bishop, Bishop; Captain, Major, Brigadier ...) and misleading to have used only the highest ranks they achieved. If McKinley was President throughout the period covered by the book, it might be wise to add a qualifier, thus: McKinley, William (President, 1897-1901) [or, if necessary, (President of the USA, 1897-1901)] Similarly with the former presidents if their actions during the time of their presidencies are discussed. But if, in the context of the book, they are merely former presidents, I think the bare names will do. BTW, my reference books disagree. Did McKinley become president in 1897 or 1896? From Simon Cauchi, Freelance Editor and Indexer 13 Riverview Terrace, Hamilton, New Zealand Telephone and facsimile +64 7 854 9229, e-mail cauchi@wave.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 14:44:16 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "McCullough, Elizabeth W" Subject: Re: Indexing question He was elected in 1896 and inaugurated (took office) in 1897. He is considered to have been President from 1897-1901. Elizabeth ___________________________________________ > -----Original Message----- > From: Simon Cauchi [SMTP:cauchi@WAVE.CO.NZ] > Sent: Thursday, February 05, 1998 2:27 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Indexing question > > BTW, my reference books disagree. Did McKinley become president in > 1897 or 1896? > > From Simon Cauchi, Freelance Editor and Indexer > 13 Riverview Terrace, Hamilton, New Zealand > Telephone and facsimile +64 7 854 9229, e-mail cauchi@wave.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 14:48:12 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Wright Subject: Re: Indexing question -Reply McKinley was elected in 1896, but inaugurated in 1897. The US has a fine old tradition of holding the Inauguration in January-- hey, why not make the new president stand out in the freezing cold to show his fortitude? :-) Of course, this did result in one president (William Henry Harrison, 1841) catching pneumonia at his inauguration and dying just a few weeks into his term, but oddly enough, it didn't occur to anyone to rethink that tradition! :-) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:06:44 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "McCullough, Elizabeth W" Subject: Re: Indexing question -Reply At the time that McKinley and W. H. Harrison were presidents, Inaugural Day was held in March. Harrison gave an hour and 45 minute Inaugural Address outdoors during a snowstorm and died of pneumonia one month later. Elizabeth ___________________________________________ > -----Original Message----- > From: Sharon Wright [SMTP:SHARONW@MICHIE.COM] > Sent: Thursday, February 05, 1998 2:48 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Indexing question -Reply > > McKinley was elected in 1896, but inaugurated in 1897. > The US has a fine old tradition of holding the > Inauguration in January-- hey, why not make the new > president stand out in the freezing cold to show his > fortitude? :-) Of course, this did result in one president > (William Henry Harrison, 1841) catching pneumonia at > his inauguration and dying just a few weeks into his > term, but oddly enough, it didn't occur to anyone to > rethink that tradition! :-) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:00:11 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandra Topping Subject: Re: Indexing question Dear Marlene: No, I would not include the title -- unless the book is written for people who have no idea what a President of the United States is! The title is used only as an identifier, if needed. (And it's McKinley, not McKinney) Sandy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:16:08 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Re: business organization -- help! In a message dated 98-02-05 12:39:02 EST, you write: << They will not put a business name on checks or in any way on a personal account. But .... they're cheaper. Just don't tell the bank what it is for, and it is a personal account to all intents and purposes. This works until you begin getting too many checks made out to a business name, and then the bank will balk, and rightfully so. >> I think whether or not you can put your business name on personal checks is purely up to the bank. My checks (personal type) are imprinted: Carolyn G. Weaver Weaver Indexing Service [street address] Have never had any trouble/comments from my bank, including depositing checks made payable to the business name, and I still pay personal account rates. I actually changed banks when my former bank (which also permitted personal accounts with business names) was acquired by a conglomerate which insisted on charging me $8 a month for a business account (vs. no fee on the personal account when I maintain a $500 balance). So as with all things, it pays to shop around. But I do fully support the advice to maintain separate checking accounts, credit cards, et al, for business use. Carolyn ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:21:56 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Wright Subject: Mea culpa One of my learned colleagues who also subscribes to this list just pointed out that until FDR, presidents were inaugurated in March. So much for my history degree! :-) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:26:30 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Larry.Baker@GALE.COM Subject: Re: Indexing question -Reply I'll poke my head in here, not as a publisher or indexer or anything, but as an amateur presidential history geek. (I drive my wife crazy with the number of books on U.S. presidents I buy!) Inaugurations were held in March for years and years (until during one of FDR's terms, I believe), so poor old (and I mean old--he was the oldest president [68] until Ronnie Reagan became president in 1980) William Henry Harrison caught pneumonia in March, not January. Still, it must have been pretty cold. If I recall my Harrison trivia, he didn't wear a coat and he also gave one of the longest--if not THE longest--inaugural addresses in history. Not *there's* irony for ya. I believe the change from March to January resulted from the desire to shorten the lame duck time period. Four months (from November election to March inauguration) was a pretty long time to have a powerless president in the White House! Larry Baker LBaker@gale.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:31:20 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Larry.Baker@GALE.COM Subject: Presidential history Heh, heh. I guess, collectively, we all know our presidential history pretty well!! Well, OK, I mentioned the thing about the coat. And, oh yeah, he was future president Benjamin Harrison's grandfather. Now, don't get me started on Calvin Coolidge trivia! (Mmm, mmm, mmm... One of the most beautiful areas I've ever been to is Plymouth Notch, Vermont, where Coolidge lived and is buried.) Larry Baker LBaker@gale.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:41:03 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Wright Subject: Re: Indexing question -Reply -Reply You are absolutely right, Larry. I had forgotten about the move of the inauguration. Dying from pneumonia in March is even more embarrassing! As you point out, he brought it on himself, though. I remember the comparisons before Clinton's first inaugural speech-- people were afraid that he'd beat Harrison's record, and since it was a lovely, sunny, mid-40ish day, he wouldn't have a snow storm or pneumonia to stop him! :-) >>> 02/05/98 03:26pm >>> I'll poke my head in here, not as a publisher or indexer or anything, but as an amateur presidential history geek. (I drive my wife crazy with the number of books on U.S. presidents I buy!) Inaugurations were held in March for years and years (until during one of FDR's terms, I believe), so poor old (and I mean old--he was the oldest president [68] until Ronnie Reagan became president in 1980) William Henry Harrison caught pneumonia in March, not January. Still, it must have been pretty cold. If I recall my Harrison trivia, he didn't wear a coat and he also gave one of the longest--if not THE longest--inaugural addresses in history. Not *there's* irony for ya. I believe the change from March to January resulted from the desire to shorten the lame duck time period. Four months (from November election to March inauguration) was a pretty long time to have a powerless president in the White House! Larry Baker LBaker@gale.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 17:22:12 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Indexing question << In the index, though, would I call each of them President? i.e.: Cleveland, President Grover Harrison, President Benjamin McKinney, President William >> Nope--just call them by their names. In general, I don't index titles. Exceptions: a government client that wants military titles indexed; an occasional case where neither the author nor I have the person's first name and I need the title to help the reader identify the person. Do Mi Stauber ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 17:49:46 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "S. Greenhouse" Subject: Business phone scam warning My husband, who is not known to be a scam spreader, just forwarded a message about a phone scam. The important information appears to be that a person impersonating an AT&T tech calls and requests you to press 90# and hang up (so that they can "test" your phone line). This sequence gives the individual that called you access to your telephone line and allows them to place a long distance telephone call, with the charge appearing on your telephone call. Business lines, for which a number must be dialed to get an outside line, are targets. I just got off the phone with an AT&T rep and confirmed this can happen, not on your home phone line, but on lines where a number must be dialed to get access to phone lines outside the company. Contact me off list for the complete forwarded message, or if the consensus agrees, I can post it to Index-L. Shelley Greenhouse greenhou@erols.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:07:01 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: marketing - who to call At 11:15 AM 2/5/1998 EST, JPerlman@AOL.COM wrote: >Never talk to Human Resources. That's a waste of your time, as they have >nothing to do with freelancers. They recruit for and hire fulltime staff. So >if you get that for an answer, hang up. You're wasting your time. Janet, I haven't run into this on the phone, but I've sent letters and resumes, clearly addressed to Production Manager (if I didn't have an actual name), and they have been forwarded to the HR people and THEY have sent me a "so sorry" letter! I'm sure it must be the PM's secretary who doesn't read well... =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:07:05 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: business organization -- help! At 11:08 AM 2/5/1998 -0500, John and Kara Pekar wrote: >Should I a) have an entirely separate Quicken database for the indexing >business? >(This would currently entail entering things twice.) b) open a business >checking/savings account and get a business credit card? I'm currently >using my own name, rather than a company name, so I wasn't sure this was >necessary. I would strongly urge you to get a separate checking account for your business (and select one credit card for business use only...it doesn't have to be a special business card). It's not "necessary" in the sense that the IRS requires it, but it keeps business expense tracking very simple, and if you ever have to provide proof for an audit, it makes life a lot simpler. BTW, if you are using your own name as your business name, you do not need a DBA (Doing Business As) in order to open a business checking account. If you are calling yourself ABC Indexing, you will need a DBA. This is easy and cheap (about $15 to my county clerk, $30 for newspaper publication). >I use Starfish's Sidekick program for scheduling and client information. I >have separate "cardfiles" for publishers I've contacted, clients, and >indexer contacts. This system works pretty well, and I try to keep a >backup on floppy, but should I have a hardcopy rolodex as well? If so, >what are the advantages and disadvantages? I still have a rolodex, but it only has addresses, phone numbers, and contact names. It just doesn't make sense to me to have to fire up the computer, open a program, and so forth...just to get a name or number. >How have you folks set up your filing system for client correspondence, >etc? What materials do you/don't you keep? Do you file correspondence by >publisher, by editor, by project? Do you file invoices and shipping >receipts by publisher/project, or all together by date, or some other >system? I'd really like to hear specifics about what does and doesn't work >for you. While I have some ideas on how to set up my file system, I want >to make sure I don't have to revamp the whole thing a year or two down the >road! I use job numbers. All my job files are kept in separate folders (by number). I don't have that many invoices out at one time, so I don't have a separate file of ARs. For clients that I know I will be working with again (or already have a long-standing relationship with), I have a file for each one that contains general information--style sheets, general correspondence, and so forth. I am generally still a "paper person" for most things. Indexes generally are kept on disk, and printed out as needed for samples, but I keep paper copies of bills, correspondence, etc. I really don't like having to turn on the computer to take a quick look at a letter, and it gives me a sense of security, knowing that for most things I have both an electronic and a paper copy. >What do you keep in hardcopy, and what do you keep on floppy disk or other >electronic media? How long do you keep completed indexes, and in what >form? Do you keep the page proofs, and if so, how long (and how on earth >do you store them, if you keep them past receipt of the check?) I keep completed indexes virtually forever, on floppy if they are old, and on my hard drive (with a floppy backup) if they are relatively new. I print out samples as needed. I routinely ask my editor if he/she wants the pages back; most don't, and I recycle that paper. Those that do, pay for shipping. I hang on to them, in any event, until I get my check for that job...just in case! >Do any of you keep copies of every marketing letter you send out? Why or >why not? I usually send out marketing materials in batches, so I keep one copy of what I've sent and write down a list of everybody who got it and the date it was sent. If I do a campaign to try and get one specific client, I usually keep the stuff related to that until I know whether or not I got the job. And, if it's a particularly good letter, I keep it for later use. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:07:03 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: marketing At 10:19 AM 2/5/1998 EST, Pamela Venneman wrote: >Just to clarify...some of the publishers' employees that answer the phone do >not know what I am talking about and transfer me to the Human Resources >departments who tell me they are not hiring...click. Others I do get to >explain "what I am", and they are all amazement. The names I have been >choosing, remembering that I am looking for my first job, are from LMP in >fields such as how-to, children's non-fiction, etc. I guess I am not >approaching this in the right way. Pamela, others have given good advice...ask for the Production Manager, or a production editor (NOT Managing Editor or one of those other folks who don't handle book production). I bet most secretaries don't really know anything about indexing or freelancing, and that's why you're getting odd responses. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:13:26 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: business organization -- help! At 01:16 PM 2/5/1998 EST, Barbara Cohen wrote: >I find it a convenience to keep my business checking account at a different >bank than my personal account, plus the checks are different colors. I feel >that I have two bankers rather than one, as a result. Ditto for credit cards >with separate companies. We keep all our accounts at one bank...our household account, two business accounts, even my son's personal checking account. It's so much easier to deal with going to ONE place to transact all my business! Also, when we apply for loans or ask for special accommodations, it's helpful to be able to point out that we do all our business with them...and a fair amount of business it is. Just something to think about... =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:13:27 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Indexing question At 01:34 PM 2/5/1998 -0500, Marlene London wrote: >In a history book I am currently indexing, Benjamin Harrison, Grover >Cleveland, and William McKinney are discussed. The latter was President >during the time of the subject matter covered. In the index, though, would >I call each of them President? i.e.: > >Cleveland, President Grover >Harrison, President Benjamin >McKinney, President William I would not use the honorific quite that way. Here's one way I'd do it, if it's the kind of book where there might be some doubt as to who these people are, and/or if being president was a specific focus of the book. Cleveland, Grover (president) Harrison, Benjamin (president) McKinley, William (president) Otherwise, if it's just a general history, I'd leave off the "president" altogether. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:19:58 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Indexing question At 08:27 AM 2/6/1998 +1300, Simon Cauchi wrote: >BTW, my reference books disagree. Did McKinley become president in 1897 or 1896? He would have been elected in 1896; he would have taken office in 1897 (the exact date is now January 20; back then, I believe it was in March). I'm too lazy to get up and check further! =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 14:46:09 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Monica Luce Subject: Help for newbie, educating a client I'm a new indexer, actually still a wanna-be, at this point. I'll soon be working on my first index, maybe. I've volunteered to do a cookbook index for a non-profit group. The woman putting the book together is, well, inexperienced. First she was going to send me a "list of the sections and what recipes go in each one" to work from. I explained that I would need to have the whole, completed book, otherwise the index wouldn't be accurate or useful. Now she tells me that she will send me the whole book, but that she's "still unsure about how to arrange the recipes in each section", and that she'd like to not number the pages so they can add to the book as they receive more recipes. I conclude that she doesn't really know what an index is. So, I will tell her (tactfully) that the purpose of the index is to direct the reader to the particular page that has the information they are seeking, and that can't be done without page numbers. Maybe I should send her a sample page, so she sees what I'm talking about? Any words of wisdom for me? Thanks! Monica Luce mluce@mindspring.com mluce@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 19:21:04 +0000 Reply-To: connolly@neca.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dan Connolly Subject: Books to Buy Hi all. I am currently taking the USDA course, developing a business (name, web site) and getting ready to launch this new career. I recently recieved a $100.00 gift certificate to a bookstore and wondered if you could offer suggestions as to my first purchases toward creating my reference library. I plan to focus on academic presses, social sciences and education. In addition, I am interested in doing some other types of editorial work (copyediting, proofreading, limited writing and re-writing). I guess I'll need books on markets and marketing, indexing, editorial stuff and reference in the areas I mentioned earlier. I plan to spend the $100 now and acquire the rest over time, so I really want the first purchases to be useful. I know this money won't go far, but let's see what we can do. Thanks for the help. Dan -- ///////////////////////////////////////////// Dan Connolly connolly@neca.com Our life is frittered away by detail . . . Simplify, simplify. Henry David Thoreau ///////////////////////////////////////////// ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 08:29:31 +0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Headley and Adrian Walker-Smith Subject: Re: Cookbooks (Was Help for newbie, educating a client) >From Christine Headley What would be really useful in a cookbook would be an index of major or unusual ingredients, with subheads of other major or unusual ingredients rather than the name of the dish. Could save a lot of time leafing through looking for a recipe that would use up all the stuff at its use-by date in the fridge! Christine ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 21:56:00 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Indexing with winHelp? Can anyone recommend a good introduction to using winHelp in general and indexing with it in particular? Dick ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 14:09:59 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Books to Buy In-Reply-To: <199802060517.XAA24358@mixcom.mixcom.com> Dan, you didn't say whether you already have *some* reference books. So I'm going to assume you have nothing. Here are some great books to start with: Chicago Manual of Style, 14th ed. Webster's 10th Collegiate Dictionary Cambridge Biographical Dictionary [That's probably $100 worth right there. You must already have Nancy Mulvany's _Indexing Books_, since it comes with the USDA course.] Additional: Insider's Guide to Book Editors, Publishers, and Literary Agents Getting Business to Come to You Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 16:23:00 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cliff Urr Subject: An Animated Thesaurus - Wired Article In-Reply-To: <199802052331.SAA12257@spool1.monumental.com> Check out the story at this site: http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/10113.html It's about a new online application that *animates index terms* for better retrieval. I tried it out from the company's page (URL for it at Wired article, and found it engaging if somewhat spooky to use. Below is a part of the article to whet your appetite: Cliff Urr Vienna, VA curr@msninc.com "Synonyms in Space Chris Oakes 4:59am 6.Feb.98.PST Duck - here comes an adjective. As you click deeper in, a similar word edges in from the right. Clearly this is not your average thesaurus. Strange stuff, perhaps, to the textual domain, but it's the linguistic way of life inside a new Java-powered word "nebula," as Plumb Design describes its Visual Thesaurus, which puts a premium on action, dynamic typography, and design. Marc Tinkler, Plumb Design's director of technology, says the thesaurus and the so-called "Thinkmap" technology behind it is an effort to make navigation - not just content - part of finding conceptual meaning and relationships. "The navigation helps you understand the connection between things," he said. Tinkler came up with the original technology while getting his degree in architecture." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 13:48:05 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: judith elaine martin Subject: income potential I am currently a reference librarian considering a career change to freelance indexing. I'm having trouble however determining how much income I can expect as an indexer. The sources I've read give conflictual or vague information. I realize income will be commiserate with effort and time, but what is the average income I can expect? My primary concern is whether the income is sufficient to justify the time and energy involved in such an endeavor. Any feedback on this issue would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance. Renee Wrest. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 12:39:33 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Paul Lightfoot Subject: Re: Description of this list Re: 6. Courses or training for indexers (outside of library schools) Don't forget the British Society of Indexers course "Training in Indexing". There are five open learning course units with test papers leading to Accreditation for members of the Society. It's an excellent course, and would probably be more practical for indexers in Europe as fa= r as mail times etc. are concerned. Further information may be obtained from: = Society of Indexers Mermaid House 1 Mermaid Court London SE1 1HR England Sue Lightfoot ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 12:22:03 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandra Topping Subject: The ISO999 request -- thank you I received the following message from the student requesting help with her ISO999 project: Subj: Re: ISO999 Date: 98-02-05 17:23:41 EST From: Maura514 To: SCTopping << vbirch@ACCESSONE.COM >> Please tell the members of your listserve thanks for me! I was able to use the title send by the name above to actually find a copy in a library catalog. I can't thank you and your friends enough. Maura Young Maura514@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 11:30:06 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jennifer.Dye@GALE.COM Subject: Posting: Indexing and Thesaurus development Reference publisher seeks indexing/thesaurus company to develop back-of-book AND online index for forthcoming medical encyclopedia. Experience with medical content essential as well as experience in developing an electronic hierarchical thesaurus. Must be able to work with electronic manuscript and deliver coded ascii files. Rapid turnaround essential for completion date of July '98. Email cover letter and resume to olendorf@gale.com or send to Donna Olendorf, Senior editor, Gale Research, 835 Penobscot Building, 645 Griswold St., Detroit, MI 48226-4094. Posted for Donna by Jennifer Dye * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Jennifer J. Dye (jdye@gale.com) Bibliographic Authority Control Specialist Gale Research 835 Penobscot Building Detroit, MI 48226-4094 Voice (313) 961-2242 x1889 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 09:10:49 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "D. C. Schroeder" Subject: Re: business organization -- bank accounts I went through the typical business bank account thing for my part-time desktop publishing business and found the following. Opening a regular business account at the bank had me drowning in fees, fees for deposits, fees for withdrawals/checks written and a monthly service fee. Bank One had, for a time, a "small" business account with a low single monthly fee which allowed a set number of deposits and withdrawals without additional charges. About 18 months ago they too began to raise their fees. My business account is now at a credit union where I can put the business name on the checks and can also have a business savings account which pays interest, even if it is a small amount, rather than at a bank where I was charged a fee for saving money. The checking account also pays interest if I keep the balance at a set level. My suggestion is, look for banks with services for the small/part-time business or, if you are eligible to join a credit union, check out their services. Dawn Schroeder The Perfect Page ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 23:58:02 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Margaret Stevenson Subject: Re: Business phone scam warning In-Reply-To: <199802060000.TAA20027@camel16.mindspring.com> A similar scam is someone calling to "test the lines" and asking you to transfer to the operator (0). Our company is negotiating currently to have over $1000.00 worth of calls to Yemen (sex lines) removed from our bill because of this scam. AT & T network security people tell me that they can test the lines anytime they want WITHOUT help. If any caller requests any help from you, HANG UP!! It is a scam! At 05:49 PM 2/5/98 -0500, you wrote: >My husband, who is not known to be a scam spreader, just forwarded a >message about a phone scam. The important information appears to be that >a person impersonating an AT&T tech calls and requests you to press 90# >and hang up (so that they can "test" your phone line). This sequence >gives >the individual that called you access to your telephone line and allows >them to place a long distance telephone call, with the charge appearing >on your telephone call. Business lines, for which a number must be >dialed to get an outside line, are targets. I just got off the phone >with an AT&T rep and confirmed this can happen, not on your home phone >line, but on lines where a number must be dialed to get access to phone >lines outside the company. > >Contact me off list for the complete forwarded message, or if the >consensus agrees, I can post it to Index-L. > >Shelley Greenhouse >greenhou@erols.com > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 18:02:07 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: Help for newbie, educating a client In-Reply-To: <199802052356.PAA01162@pacific.net> Monica wrote: >Now she tells me >that she will send me the whole book, but that she's "still unsure >about how to arrange the recipes in each section", and that she'd like >to not number the pages so they can add to the book as they receive >more recipes. >I conclude that she doesn't really know what an index is. So, I will >tell her (tactfully) that the purpose of the index is to direct the >reader to the particular page that has the information they are seeking, >and that can't be done without page numbers. If they arrange the cookbook in a loose-leaf format, in which each section of it has its own number (e.g. I, II, III, IV... or 1, 2, 3, 4...), and each page within a section has a page number, added to the section number (e.g. 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4; 2.1, 2.2, 2.3...), they can add recipes to the ends of sections later without renumbering the rest of the book. This would still require her to arrange the recipes for this edition before you do the index, but it would allow her to add recipes gracefully as time goes on. This would best be accompanied by a periodic update of the index as well, in which book owners obtain all new pages for the index and throw out the old ones. There are many options for section/page number formats. Best, Victoria ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 21:08:42 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Cohen Subject: Re: Help for newbie, educating a client Hi Monica, Your query points out a problem we have heard before from new indexers: it is sometimes very hard to work with an inexperienced client, but often these are just the people willing to give work to new indexers. What should you do? My advice is generally to pass this kind of project by, as it will be frustrating for you to educate the client at this particular juncture in your own career. Put the same amount of energy into finding a client who already knows what he or she is doing and you will have a real payment down the road from a (potentially) repeat client. (This new client of yours doesn't sound like a major producer of books--so how many future jobs are you going to get out of this after helping them along?) I think that it is better to have your first experience be a positive one, and this one already sounds like trouble. (An experienced indexer can handle this kind of client more easily because he or she can afford the "risks" involved--such as the possibility that the project will end up paying rather poorly because of all the "consulting" involved. Also, an experienced indexer may be able to foresee problems that you probably won't yet recognize.) I know it is hard to turn down the offer of a paying job (or even something with the appearance of being a paying job--I am not sure that I would define this particular query from a client as the offer of a paying job without greater clarification of what she expects) in favor of more marketing to find an experienced client, but in the long run I think you will be more satisfied. My only other suggestion would be to ask an experienced indexer to mentor you (both) through this project, if you decide to go ahead with it. Just my 2 cents.... Good luck. --Barbara ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 19:57:50 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Good Indexer Subject: Re: Mea culpa That's not true! Until Eisenhower they were inauguarated in January. Suellen _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 19:27:33 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: Books to buy Dan Connolly asks about books to buy. Since you are taking the USDA course, you already have Mulvany (essential) and the indexing chapter from the CMS. The entire Chicago Manual of Style is good to have. It gets into the nitty gritty of interesting stuff like font sizes, picas, book signatures, and other things that you sooner or later will encounter in the publishing world. I have survived without the two other major works on indexing by Wellisch and Knight although I would love to have both. Larry Bonura's book _The Art of Indexing_ is particularly good for technical writers. I also have and consider valuable: a) two biographical dictionaries: Webster's and Cambridge. I bought the latter to supplement the Webster's since the former doesn't list anyone who hasn't yet passed on. I am pleased with both. b) a geographical dictionary: again, Webster's. Primarily for checking spellings on city names, and associating foreign city names properly with their countries. c) an atlas: same reasons for having. The one I use came gratis from an insurance agent. d) The World Almanac: This is published annually (there are a couple of variations, one being a "Book of Facts"). Invaluable when you need to get first names of political figures, celebrities, or to get a handle on a random fact. e) a very good dictionary: I have several in the house. The one I consult most frequently is _The Random House Dictionary of the English Language_. I also have the microscopic version of the OED which, while fascinating, very often fails to yield up words that are peculiar to a field such as feminist literary criticism. f) cheapo dictionaries in several languages (German, Latin, Spanish). On marketing I recommend almost anything by Paul and Sarah Edwards, especially their _Working from Home_. On markets, _The Literary Marketplace_ seems to be the leader. I have not purchased that, preferring to set aside an hour a week to spend in the library copying stuff out of it. Finally, there have been some excellent articles in the ASI's newsletter about reference materials. One that comes to mind is Cynthia Bertelson's article on reference tools for the humanities in the Sep/Oct 1997 issue. [Can anyone help out with access to that?] Please let us know how you decided to spend your windfall and give us your web address when it's ready. Hope this helps. Craig Brown ========================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing (314)352-9094 www.i1.net/~lastword ========================================== ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 13:04:30 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nancy Noyes Subject: Re: Help for newbie, educating a client This is a perfect opportunity for you to 'hone' your professional people dealing skills! Since you feel that she is totally unaware of what indexing means, you can (mentally) draw yourself up to your full height and, with an air of compassion and authority, explain that it is necessary for projects to be in order and completed (except for minor revisions) before they are put forth for indexing. Otherwise there is nothing to index. You will be imparting valuable information to her (even if she doesn't realize it), that you can encourage her to pass along to her contributors in an effort to hasten their submissions, making her look great in their eyes. Further, you could make a 'professional suggestion' that it would be a better marketing strategy to make a second edition ("Back by popular demand...") out of all the stragglers. Otherwise, you at least have given a true and professional reason for what must be submitted to you in order to consider accepting the project, and also for not accepting. Best of luck! Nancy Noyes All Write ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 10:49:44 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: Indexing with winHelp? In-Reply-To: <199802071646.LAA00367@camel26.mindspring.com> Designing Windows 95 Help by Mary Deaton and Cheryl Zubak is a good source. You can also get my article on WinHelp keywords at my web site... http://www. mindspring.com/~jancw At 09:56 PM 2/6/98 -0500, you wrote: >Can anyone recommend a good introduction to using winHelp in general and >indexing with it in particular? > >Dick > Jan +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ Jan C. Wright Wright Information Indexing Services Jancw@mindspring.com www.mindspring. com/~jancw +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 14:23:02 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: Books to Buy At 02:09 PM 2/6/98 -0600, Carol Roberts wrote: >Dan, you didn't say whether you already have *some* reference books. So I'm >going to assume you have nothing. Here are some great books to start with: > >Chicago Manual of Style, 14th ed. >Webster's 10th Collegiate Dictionary >Cambridge Biographical Dictionary > >[That's probably $100 worth right there. You must already have Nancy >Mulvany's _Indexing Books_, since it comes with the USDA course.] > >Additional: > >Insider's Guide to Book Editors, Publishers, and Literary Agents >Getting Business to Come to You Dan, I agree with Carol that these types of books are the basic ones that you need and will use constantly on a daily basis. Note that the Insider's Guide to Book Editors, Publishers, and Literary Agents is now called Writer's Guide to Book Editors, Publishers, and Literary Agents, 1998-1999 (by Jeff Herman, $25.00). Merriam-Webster's 10th Collegiate Dictionary is a fairly standard basic dictionary (cost is around $20.00, if I remember correctly). I use it all the time. I would also suggest examining Merriam-Webster's Biographical Dictionary (1995, $27.95), because it includes a special section of 7,000 "prenames, titles, and name elements" that are often hard to index if you don't know what part of a name is a personal name or a title. Webster's lists people (30,000 entries) who are no longer living, not much help if you are indexing current political science stuff. Chambers Biographical Dictionary (edited by Parry, 1997, $55.00) lists people who are both living and dead (17,500 entries with longer mini-biographies). If you need to know geographical place names, Merriam-Webster's Geographical Dictionary (3rd ed., 1997, $29.95) is a good choice, too. Mulvany's book is a handy basic reference, but frankly I find Hans Wellisch's Indexing from A to Z (2nd ed., 1995, $40.00) to be more useful to me now. You should also be aware that Oxford and Penguin publish a number of inexpensive paperback special subject dictionaries (botany, philosophy, eighteenth-century history, literary terms, and so on). Have fun spending the money! ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen Freelance Indexer Bertelsen Indexing Services cbertel@usit.net Editor-in-Chief, KEY WORDS, American Society of Indexers Web page: http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 14:58:27 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Leading articles I'm working on an index for a book with Chicana/o studies as a central theme. The editors will allow articles to retain leading position in the index with alphabetization on the word following the article. Should I follow this rule with "La Raza?" I understand that "La" is an article, but it seems to me like it is almost inseparable from the entire name. Opinions welcomed. TIA, Craig Brown ========================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing (314)352-9094 www.i1.net/~lastword ========================================== ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 13:14:55 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: business organization -- bank accounts At 09:10 AM 2/6/1998 EST, D. C. Schroeder wrote: >My suggestion is, look for banks with services for the small/part-time >business or, if you are eligible to join a credit union, check out their >services. I heartily second this! All our bank accounts are free--we got them when a new bank in town offered free banking services to attract new businesses. The service thus far has been excellent, and I'm saving at least $20 a month on combined charges for home and office accounts. Another point...some of these free accounts do not deliver cancelled checks with your statement--they will give you a copy, if needed, and otherwise the checks are microfilmed. This has not been a problem for me, but for others, it might be an issue. It's also one way banks keep fees down, so you might ask about that if you really want to have the actual cancelled checks on hand. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 16:24:02 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: Leading articles Craig, You're right. According to the recent book by Rosalie Maggio (Talking About People: A Guide to Fair and Accurate Language, Oryx Press, 1997), La Raza is alphabetized under "La" even though the article "la" is usually ignored in the same way as "the" is ignored in English alphabetical sorts in indexes [for example, The Loved One (Waugh), which would be indexed under "Loved "]. You should make a cross-reference from Raza, La to La Raza, though. At 02:58 PM 2/7/98 -0500, Craig Brown wrote: >I'm working on an index for a book with Chicana/o studies as a central >theme. The editors will allow articles to retain leading position in the >index with alphabetization on the word following the article. > >Should I follow this rule with "La Raza?" I understand that "La" is an >article, but it seems to me like it is almost inseparable from the entire >name. ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen Freelance Indexer Bertelsen Indexing Services cbertel@usit.net Editor-in-Chief, KEY WORDS, American Society of Indexers Web page: http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 02:10:21 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rennie Petersen Subject: Re: Indexing with winHelp? I use a product called Doc-To-Help, which converts Microsoft Word documents to Windows Help files. It includes support for the indexing features in Word, turning them into WinHelp pop-ups. See www.wextech.com Yours, Rennie Petersen On Saturday, February 07, 1998 3:56 AM, Richard Evans [SMTP:infodex@MINDSPRING.COM] wrote: > Can anyone recommend a good introduction to using winHelp in general and > indexing with it in particular? > > Dick > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 13:02:12 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dwight Walker Subject: Mentoring as part of Web indexing course Hi On further discussions with some of my clients, I have found a demand for mentoring in the new field of Web indexing. Over here in Australia we call it mateship - we stick by each other. It is not as competitive over here and I would be glad to support you in your new venture as a Web indexer. I have added 1 month mentoring after the course using ICQ chat and the Web as part of the price of the course. I will be giving all participants too a free copy of the new much better designed WEBIX tool. I am developing it in Delphi and will make it very user friendly and easy to use for Windows users. More details as it is launched. For details on the WWWalker Web Indexing Course see: http://www.wwwalker.com.au/webcourse.html Cheers Dwight Walker WWWalker Web Development ---------------------------------------------------------- Dwight Walker, Sydney, Australia tel +61-2-98902691, mob 0412-405727, fax +61-2-97772058 ICQ No. 4631678, handle: wwwalker (www.mirabilis.com) WWWalker Web Development: http://www.wwwalker.com.au Australian Society of Indexers: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi Sydney Linux Users Group: http://www.slug.org.au Waverley Randwick Philharmonic http://www.wwwalker.com.au/wrps.html