From: SMTP%"LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu" 26-MAR-1998 04:43:47.66 To: CIRJA02 CC: Subj: File: "INDEX-L LOG9801A" Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 04:42:41 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9801A" To: CIRJA02@GSVMS1.CC.GASOU.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 09:02:25 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SCTopping Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: jokes in indexes The only joke I've ever put in an index was, with the editor's permission, to index a very clever joke of the author's in an Anthropology text. My greatest fear is that I will receive a typeset copy of the index from a publisher and find an inadvertent "joke" when I recheck it! Sandy Topping ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 10:35:39 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kevin & Jennifer A. Broccoli" Subject: Finding full names Can anyone tell me where I might find an online resource that can help me to find the full names of people? For instance, I need to find the full name of a semi-famous chess player (I only have his last name). ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 10:58:19 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ghg410 Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Finding full names Kevin: If the person has ever been written about or written, he will appear in the Library of Congress catalog. It is a great source for names because they tend to use the fullest available form of the name. LC is at http://lcweb.loc.gov If he doesn't turn-up there, try UnCover which is a free journals table of contents database, no indexing. It's http://uncweb.carl.org As a third possibility, try a search engine like Alta Vista. You might find him that way. Good Luck. Gerri Gerri Gray Reference Librarian Baltimore, MD (Very cold this morning, but no snow.) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 18:28:33 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: Ontology is At 02:51 PM 12/30/97 -0800, S. Greenhouse wrote: >For 50 bonus points, why do they want a philosopher? Does this mean that >theoretical knowledge of how to access information is as good as >actually being able to find something? LOL!!! Not only theoretical knowledge of how an individual can access information, but also how the entire species of homo sapiens developed this ability--being that ontology is said to recapitulate phylogeny. ;-D Lynn *********************************** Lynn Moncrief (techndex@pacbell.net) TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing *********************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 12:00:08 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: Finding full names In-Reply-To: <199801011533.HAA22985@powergrid.electriciti.com> I would try a "chess player name" WWW search (with the quote marks). There is probably a chess newsgroup and at least one list such as this. Why not try posting to such special interest groups? At 10:35 AM 1/1/98 -0500, you wrote: >Can anyone tell me where I might find an online resource that can help me >to find the full names of people? For instance, I need to find the full >name of a semi-famous chess player (I only have his last name). > > Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 13:28:51 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: jokes in indexes? As may be remembered, I am rather staunchly opposed to professional indexers manufacturing funniness in indexes. Of course, if the publisher or author of a humorous book solicits a humorous index, that's another matter (and a circumstance I would love...). Here is an example from my current project of the way I have handled humor that is present in the text. The book is a college text on psychology of women, a discipline of psychology. The author is discussing menstruation and the cultural myths attending it, and twice she devotes a paragraph to the notion that if men menstruated, the cultural stance would be one of power during that time, rather than debilitation. She notes that testosterone, like estrogen, also runs in cycles, and that if women are impaired by estrogen cycles, that we might do well also to agree that men are impaired by testosterone cycles. Thus the entry: testosterone, \113\ behavior and, 133-135 brain differentiation and, 116 cycles of, impairment and, 205, 217 To me, that last subentry is humorous, because it turns the usual social convention on its head. It also accurately communicates the author's intention. That's as close as I come to "jokes" in indexing. --A peaceful and prosperous new year to all-- Best, Victoria vbaker@pacific.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 23:48:08 -0500 Reply-To: mirjana martic Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: mirjana martic Subject: Re: Finding full names Have you tried with dejanews? If your semi famous chess player is an netter, you might find it through one discussion list, use net or similar (if he ever participated in discussion) Second, have you tried with chess sites? You will probably find fans or professionals in that field knowing the full name of your semi famous I'd like to hear from you if it works, good luck! Mirjana -----Original Message----- From: Kevin & Jennifer A. Broccoli To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: 1 janvier, 1998 10:32 Subject: Finding full names >Can anyone tell me where I might find an online resource that can help me >to find the full names of people? For instance, I need to find the full >name of a semi-famous chess player (I only have his last name). > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 09:24:28 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Deborah Decker Subject: newbie I have enjoyed reading the posts to this list since I arrived a few weeks ago. The thread about self employment was especially interesting. So here is my question to those who have been there, done that...: I have been thinking seriously about doing indexing freelance. I have been working for myself doing Internet research for some time so I am familiar with the ups and downs of self-employment. I would like something that uses a bit more grey matter and yet is still flexible schedule-wise. I have looked at the 2 part USDA course. It looks good but I would really value some input here. Any other ideas on training and getting started? Please either answer to the list or to me personally. Thanks in advance, Debby Decker debdeckr@roanoke.infi.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 09:26:54 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Naomi K. Young" Subject: Re: Finding full names In-Reply-To: <01IRUV0VV8WO8Y6A8X@NAUVAX.UCC.NAU.EDU> At 10:58 AM 1/1/98 -0500, you wrote: >Kevin: > If the person has ever been written about or written, he will appear in >the Library of Congress catalog. It is a great source for names because they >tend to use the fullest available form of the name. LC is at >http://lcweb.loc.gov LC is a great source of names; but they do NOT use the fullest form of name in catalog entries anymore. (The cataloging rules involving form of name changed some years ago; now the form of the person's name he or she uses most often is considered authoritative.) You can frequently find a longer form of name in cross-references, but not always. Regards, Naomi Kietzke Young, Serials Catalog Librarian Northern Arizona University Naomi.Young@nau.edu Phone: (520) 523-6778 Fax: (520) 523-8043 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 12:46:12 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Indexserv Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Finding full names You can always try Encarta, too...www.encarta.com... Tim ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 13:49:58 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Seth A. Maislin" Subject: Interesting online indexes Silva Rhetoricae: The Forest of Rhetoric http://humanities.byu.edu/rhetoric/silva.htm Dr. Gideon Burton of Brigham Young University's English Department has created this guide to "the terms of classical and renaissance rhetoric." The terms are arranged into two indexes: the terms listed under "trees" provide an overview of the "forest of rhetoric"; the terms listed under "flowers" are specific terms of rhetoric or figures of speech, from acaloutha to zeugma. Entries may include a sample rhetorical analysis, related figures, "Topics of Invention," and related links. The entire site is searchable; search results are displayed with four links: view term in context, find "more like this," "show linkage" lists the pages within the site that link to the specific entry, and go to link of term used. [AG] - Seth -- Seth A. Maislin (seth@oreilly.com) <-- NOTE THE NEW DOMAIN O'Reilly & Associates Focus Publishing Services 90 Sherman Street 89 Grove Street Cambridge MA 02140 Watertown MA 02172-2826 (617) 499-7439 phone (617) 924-4428 (617) 661-1116 facsimile smaislin@world.std.com URL: http://www.oreilly.com/people/staff/seth Webmaster, Amer Soc of Indexers: http://www.well.com/user/asi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 14:03:26 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: Finding full names At 10:35 AM 1/1/98 -0500, Kevin & Jennifer A. Broccoli wrote: >Can anyone tell me where I might find an online resource that can help me >to find the full names of people? For instance, I need to find the full >name of a semi-famous chess player (I only have his last name). In addition to the suggestions made by others, try also The Librarians' Index to the Internet (great for all types of reference problems) at http://sunsite.Berkeley.EDU/InternetIndex/ (you can copy this address and paste it into your browser). When you get to the site, look at People--Collected Biographies and click on Collected Biographies (there are 23 biography sites to choose from); since I do not know what your chess player's name is, I am not sure that you will find it here, but I thought that you might find this to be a useful resource for future reference. On the same site, look at Reference Desk--Names; there are some interesting sites listed there that are concerned with personal names. (P.S. Having several good print biographical dictionaries on hand is also a good idea.) Good luck! ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer Editor-in-Chief, Key Words, American Society of Indexers cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 19:49:18 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Winter Shmooze? Can anyone give me details about the D.C. chapter's Winter Shmooze coming up on the 13th? Dick ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 17:17:58 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Finding full names In-Reply-To: <199801020521.XAA09100@mixcom.mixcom.com> What's the guy's last name? Maybe one of us knows. In addition to the resources others have mentioned, I like the Time magazine CD-ROM for names in the news. LOC, I assume, will have something on a person only if she or he has been written about in "book" form (i.e., is the subject of a work). Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 23:57:26 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Helen W Ochej Subject: another newbie Hi! My name is Helen Ochej. I'm a medical indexer at NLM who telecommutes 3 days/week. This is my first List Serve experience and it's been fun listening in for a few weeks and trying to figure out how to interact and use Netiquette. Since Medline has been offered free on the WWW in the form of PubMed I'm curious whether medical indexers have been using it. When I was a medical freelancing indexer I occasionaly needed to use Medline for looking up generic and trade names for drugs and chemicals. I would be interested in knowing what kind of information indexers look for in Medline. In case anyone is interested in playing with PubMed, the address is: http://www.nlm.nih.gov ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 15:35:15 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Australian Society of Indexers Webmaster Subject: SOON: eNewsletter on AusSI Web site, AusSI electronic mailing list eNewsletter Jonathan Jermey (diagonal@onaustralia.com.au) is going to produce the eNewsletter in HTML for our Web site. (No more Adobe Acrobat due to size and bandwidth constraints.) Details to come. Jonathan is husband of Glenda Browne, the new editor of the AusSI Newsletter. AusSI electronic mailing list on ALIA? I am trying to get an AusSI mailing list up this month. I'm trying Australian Library and Information Assocation (ALIA) who provide free listserv services for members. If you are a member of ALIA, please email me. Also please email me if you are interested in subscribing to the AusSI Electronic Mailing List. We need to 15 to make it viable on ALIA (www.alia.org.au). All the best in 1998! Dwight ------- Dwight Walker Webmaster Australian Society of Indexers, Sydney, NSW, Australia +61-2-98902691 (h) +61-(0)412-405727 (mobile), fax +61-2-97772058 ICQ chat id wwwalker, no. 4631678 (www.mirabilis.com) URL: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 02:29:26 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Brayton, Colin (IBK-NY)" Subject: Re: Copyediting Fees The Editorial Freelancers Association (www.efa.org) publishes a very helpful "Rates and Practices Survey," which they provide upon enrollment as a member. > -----Original Message----- > From: Sonsie [SMTP:sconroy@SLONET.ORG] > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 1997 2:36 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Copyediting Fees > > Help! It's been a couple of years since I've done straight editing, > and I've > been asked to bid on a job. It's about 1000 pages, a fourth edition, > with > few changes except for one new chapter. It doesn't sound like > particularly > intensive editing, though they want typemarking included. > > For those of you who also copyedit, could you reply privately and give > me a > clue as to the current going rate for a job like this? I'd greatly > appreciate hearing from you ASAP. Thanks! > > =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 21:40:27 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Australian Society of Indexers Webmaster Subject: FutureProof Papers: Greenleaf, Future-proofing a global internet index by a targeted web spider and embedded searches Hi The next paper from FutureProof Indexer Conf. held in Sep 97 at Katoomba by AusSI has been linked to our site: see http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi/Greenleaf.html This was quite a forward thinking kind of paper - a search engine that harvests links that are then fed into a major legal law index on the Web... Read on! Dwight ------- Dwight Walker Webmaster Australian Society of Indexers, Sydney, NSW, Australia +61-2-98902691 (h) +61-(0)412-405727 (mobile), fax +61-2-97772058 ICQ chat id wwwalker, no. 4631678 (www.mirabilis.com) URL: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 05:47:50 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: newbie Deborah Decker asks about freelance indexing in general and the USDA course in particular. The USDA basic course is excellent. (I assume the second is, too, although I have no personal experience.) Expect to take about a year to complete the course because of the time lag between your sending a lesson and receiving the graded copy back. And, since the lessons really should be done in sequence, it's not a good idea to submit more than one lesson at a time. This is an excellent way to learn indexing skills. For someone who is indexing full time, flexibility in scheduling is not always an option. Currently I am still waiting on page proofs that were supposed to be here several months ago. Keeping oneself busy (but not swamped) is a juggling act. The other key suggestion is to try to attend meetings of your nearest American Society of Indexers (ASI) chapter. If you haven't already found the ASI home page it's at: www.well.com/user/asi/ And, of course, continue to read the posts here. The traffic has been a little light during the holidays. This is a fine group with a great deal of helpful advice. Craig Brown ========================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing (314)352-9094 www.i1.net/~lastword ========================================== ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 00:00:29 +1100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Anne Hugo Subject: Re: SOON: eNewsletter on AusSI Web site, AusSI electronic mailing list >If you are a member of ALIA, please email me. Yes, I am an Associate Member. >Also please email me if you are interested in subscribing to the AusSI >Electronic Mailing List. Yes please, am interested. regards Anne Hugo Anne.Hugo@utas.edu.au Australian Clearinghouse for Youth Studies formerly known as the National Clearinghouse for Youth Studies GPO Box 252-64 Hobart 7001 Tasmania Australia Ph +61 3 6226 2591 Fax +61 3 6226 2578 http://www.acys.utas.edu.au/ncys/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 00:05:17 +1100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Anne Hugo Subject: Apology (Re: SOON) sorry I didn't mean to reply to the whole group and forgot to check the 'reply TO box before hitting the 'send' button ... I must have lost my email manners over Christmas or something. Anne ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 08:13:51 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: Finding full names At 05:17 PM 1/2/98 -0600, Carol Roberts wrote: >LOC, I assume, will have something >on a person only if she or he has been written about in "book" form (i.e., >is the subject of a work). > LC (Library of Congress) will also list a person in their authority files (or complete standard headings) if he or she is the author of a book or other material, as well as the subject. In other words, if there is no bibliographic material associated with a person either as author or as the subject of a work, you will not find a person's name in the LC catalog. LC's catalog can be accessed at http://lcweb.loc.gov/catalog/ in case anyone has not tried it yet. The search forms are very easy to use and search results are also very useful. ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer Editor-in-Chief, Key Words, American Society of Indexers cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 08:58:57 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: CGWeaver Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: another newbie In a message dated 98-01-02 23:58:42 EST, you write: << Since Medline has been offered free on the WWW in the form of PubMed I'm curious whether medical indexers have been using it. When I was a medical freelancing indexer I occasionaly needed to use Medline for looking up generic and trade names for drugs and chemicals. I would be interested in knowing what kind of information indexers look for in Medline. In case anyone is interested in playing with PubMed, the address is: http://www.nlm.nih.gov >> As a medical indexer (and a medical librarian) I use Medline all the time to check out unfamiliar terms, undefined acronyms, verify indexing strategies, etc. I do own and use MeSH in addition to other thesauri; but for checking out those terms that aren't in the thesaurus, textword searching of Medline is an unparalleled resource. IMHO, making PubMed and Internet Grateful Med available without charge via the Internet is the greatest public service NLM has provided since creating MEDLARS/MeSH in the first place! Cynthia Bertelstein, Pilar Wyman and I will be presenting a workshop at the ASI national meeting in May on medical indexing resources, and I'll be doing an online demo of various Internet access points to Medline/MeSH. Y'all come!! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 10:32:45 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: "and", in subheadings At 01:28 PM 1/1/98 LCL, under "jokes in indexes?" Victoria wrote: > >. . . Here is an example from my current project of the way I have handled humor >that is present in the text. . . .: > >testosterone, \113\ > behavior and, 133-135 > brain differentiation and, 116 > cycles of, impairment and, 205, 217 It struck me when reading these headings how much more clearly they would indicate the relationships indexed if the "ands" were to come first in the subheadings and subsubheading as given, and were to go last when the headings are flipped, as in: behavior, testosterone and, 133-135 brain differentiation, testosterone and, 116 impairment, testosterone cycles and, 205, 217 testosterone, \113\ and behavior, 133-135 and brain differentiation, 116 cycles of, and impairment, 205, 217 Someone else made this point on Index-l not long ago, and much prefering to do it this way myself, I want to take this opportunity to chime in. Conceptually speaking, it's a matter of placing the word "and" between two entities in such a way as to indicate which entity is said to produce some effect upon the other. (And, of course, if the relationship between them is described as mutually influential or simply associative, the "and" should be placed consistently either first or last -- and preferably first in my opinion because the natural word order is easier to take in at a glance). Fortunately for me, I usually have the luxury of making such decisions on index specifications myself, but this method seems so helpful that I think it might be worth suggesting to publishers caught in the dicotomy of specifying that "and" always be placed either first or last. What's great about this method in terms of mechanics is that if you have an indexing program like Macrex 6.37 that can move the cursor over one heading level at a time, you can write a macro that will flip headings written to end with "and" (or any other function word) into headings with subheadings that begin with "and" (or some other function word). The macro steps in Macrex are: Begin Macro, Choose Alt--Function Key Combination, Flip Heading Levels, Line Left, Heading Level Right, Backspace, Word Left, Comma, End Macro. Cheers, Michael Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 916 272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 14:10:09 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: "and", in subheadings In a message dated 98-01-03 13:32:35 EST, brackney@nccn.net writes: > Conceptually speaking, it's a matter of placing the word "and" between two > entities in such a way as to indicate which entity is said to produce some > effect upon the other. (And, of course, if the relationship between them is > described as mutually influential or simply associative, the "and" should be > placed consistently either first or last -- and preferably first in my > opinion because the natural word order is easier to take in at a glance). > This also points up, however, one problem with the use of "and" in subheads. testosterone effect of behavior on is much different than testosterone effect on behavior I don't think that the use of "and" in any position indicates clearly "effect of." If that's really what is being discussed, I think it's important to make that clear in the index. (Again, as a general reference, you might want to check out Hans Wellisch's discussion of "and" in his book Indexing A to Z.) Fred Leise Between the Lines Indexing and Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 12:19:01 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Philip and Heather Jones Subject: Re: "and", in subheadings Michael wrote on placing "and" first, >Someone else made this point on Index-l not long ago, and much prefering to >do it this way myself, I want to take this opportunity to chime in. >Conceptually speaking, it's a matter of placing the word "and" between two >entities in such a way as to indicate which entity is said to produce some >effect upon the other. (And, of course, if the relationship between them is >described as mutually influential or simply associative, the "and" should be >placed consistently either first or last -- and preferably first in my >opinion because the natural word order is easier to take in at a glance). Tnanks, Michael! I've been feeling like I'm way out in left field for doing it this way. I like to put "and" first because it reads more naturally; you can't flip most prepositions to the end ("Kant, morality on"?), so to my eye Ashida Hitoshi on dissolution of the military and education amendment on emperor system looks better than Ashida Hitoshi on dissolution of the military education amendment and on emperor system Also, the second way implies to me that the education amendment somehow influenced Ashida, not the other way around. Along these lines, I'm afraid I also do things like House of Peers debate on women's rights instead of House of Peers women's rights, debate on If people are really concerned about women's rights, they can find it under its own main heading even if they haven't been able to find it under "House of Peers". Heather /---------------------------------------------------------------------\ | There are such things as cause and effect, but they have nothing to | | do with each other... | |---------------------------------------------------------------------| | Phil, Heather, Doug and Ivy Jones hpjones@rt66.com | | Los Alamos, NM | \---------------------------------------------------------------------/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 09:34:35 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Australian Society of Indexers Webmaster Subject: Dummies version of WEBIX tutorial by Olivia L'Heureux Hi Olivia L'Heureux has just written a much simplified and helpful version of my original rather terse explanation of Web indexing with WEBIX a simple Web indexing tool for Windows and DOS. see http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi/dummies.html I hope to have a Windows 95 version ready for Seattle conference in May 1998. Planned features are: browser built in editor built in indexing software built in - sorting, hierarchical support ftp built in big wish list but I hope I can do it with a minimal budget... and priced around $100 Australian. This will be done as my own company WWWalker Web Development: http://www.wwwalker.com.au. Many thanks for Olivia for giving me a real spurt on with needed feedback on useability and needed features (woefully lacking in previous DOS version). Thanks also to Sue for initiating the ICQ book indexers chat which got me in touch with Olivia! The internet is a great means of cheap and easy communication :) Cheers Dwight ------- Dwight Walker Webmaster Australian Society of Indexers, Sydney, NSW, Australia +61-2-98902691 (h) +61-(0)412-405727 (mobile), fax +61-2-97772058 ICQ chat id wwwalker, no. 4631678 (www.mirabilis.com) URL: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 14:47:56 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: "and", in subheadings In-Reply-To: <199801031912.LAA29656@pacific.net> I knew when I posted this example that the "ands" were going to cause comment, whether onlist or no. Fred wrote: >This also points up, however, one problem with the use of "and" in subheads. > >testosterone > effect of behavior on > >is much different than > >testosterone > effect on behavior > >I don't think that the use of "and" in any position indicates clearly "effect >of." If that's really what is being discussed, I think it's important to make >that clear in the index. Actually, what is being discussed is both the effect of behavior on testosterone, and the effect of testosterone on behavior. I realize "behavior and" is ambiguous, but it is deliberately so in order not to have to make two separate subheadings for the same page range. I may yet change how I have worded these subheads, for I am not in the editing stage yet, and more subheads continue to accumulate. Also influencing my decisions is the fact that there is a bit of a space crunch in a very large, complex textbook. "Behavior and" allows me to put more locator strings there when we get to aggression and other behavioral entries later in the book, which continues to examine the two-way nature of hormonal interaction (reciprocal determinism or psychobiology). In other words, in this index absolute shades of meaning are being sacrificed to space concerns. Re: Michael's comments: As for placing "and" at the beginning or end of the subhead, I am sufficiently ambivalent about its presence that, while I feel that a relationship needs to be indicated, I will still try to avoid strings of "ands" leading the subheads. In typographical language, that makes a "stack," within which it is hard for the eye to distinguish individual lines. In some cases, the "and" needs to be before the subhead to distinguish shade of meaning, at which point I shift it. What I usually do is indicate relationship as I add entries, and then edit the groups later according to what remains necessary. It is possible that none of the "ands" will remain necessary if all of the subheads are in similar relation to the main head. Some main heads don't ever need "ands," others do. It depends on the nature of the term. And I'm not sure I agree that the "and" should always fall in the same position in the line within a given index -- that's a bit too rigid for me. I try to be consistent within groups, but my practice doesn't always allow that. I read groups to myself, sometimes aloud, in order to figure out the best wording for understanding, brevity, and readability. Finally, Heather said she prefers: >House of Peers > debate on women's rights > >instead of > >House of Peers > women's rights, debate on My law indexing training was sufficiently rigorous that using "debate" as a lead in for a body that debates everything doesn't feel right (unless there were a subentry group on various debates). For this one, I would probably use: House of Peers women's rights debate But, when there are only two or three subheads I sometimes phrase for convenience rather than keyword since it is easy to make one's way through such a short list. Thinking about the index as a whole, though, and wanting it to be as simple as possible to navigate, such a choice, for me, is rare. Best, Victoria ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 18:05:45 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: use of slashes How do people feel about the use of slashes for related topics on the same page or page range, for example language full/half speech, 50 as opposed to language full speech, 50 half speech, 50 I would of course make main entries for each kind of speech. And what about qualifiers that make things clearer but aren't really necessary, such as language use of full/half speech I am ambivalent about the slash, I like/don't like it. And when you're ready for a break, check out http://www.driveways.com for an absolutely hilarious little waste of time. Rachel Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 16:16:04 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Philip and Heather Jones Subject: Re: "and", in subheadings I just went and reread Hans Wellisch on "and." He gives the examples diet Churchill, Winston S. and obesity and gold standard and heredity and Palestine and says they are better put as diet Churchill, Winston S. cause of obesity Palestine policies hereditary return to gold standard as these make the relationship between head and subhead clearer. I can see his point, but I'd like to note that a. For a heading with lots of subs, "obesity" and "gold standard" could get very lost, since they are hidden by "cause" and "return", which aren't ignored in the sort as "and" is. This is especially likely in run-on indexes. b. If space is an issue, "return to gold standard" and other long entries may be an unaffordable luxury. c. If the main argument for being more specific than "and" is that the relationship is not specific, than what are we doing making entries like Gordon, Russel, 16, 25 Isn't that unspecific? I don't have any problem with amorphous relationships between subs and heads; that's what the rest of the book is for! Heather /---------------------------------------------------------------------\ | There are such things as cause and effect, but they have nothing to | | do with each other... | |---------------------------------------------------------------------| | Phil, Heather, Doug and Ivy Jones hpjones@rt66.com | | Los Alamos, NM | \---------------------------------------------------------------------/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 16:28:10 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Philip and Heather Jones Subject: House of Peers Victoria suggested >House of Peers > women's rights debate Now why didn't I think of that? OK, so I'm not to the editing stage yet...I believe in the future I will just post every index I write, and you can all edit it. Thanks! Heather /---------------------------------------------------------------------\ | There are such things as cause and effect, but they have nothing to | | do with each other... | |---------------------------------------------------------------------| | Phil, Heather, Doug and Ivy Jones hpjones@rt66.com | | Los Alamos, NM | \---------------------------------------------------------------------/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:07:31 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PilarW Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Washington, DC MidWinter Schmooze MidWinter Schmooze Tuesday, January 13, 1998 6:30 PM Borders Books & Music Bowie, MD (From Route 50, take Crofton exit Route 3 South. You'll see the store as you exit. Proceed to 1st light.) The winter DC/ASI meeting will be an evening schmooze at Borders Books & Music in Bowie, MD. Borders has a nice coffee/dessert cafi and lots of fascinating books and music, of course. The store will provide us with free coffee. We'll gather at 6:30 in the cafi, have a brief 'pass the gavel' information exchange, and then form informal discussion groups. RSVP is nice, but not necessary. Just be sure to sign the attendance sheet, because attendance at the meeting gets your name entered in a drawing for a free trip to the annual meeting in Seattle next May! Borders is just off Route 50. Call the store if you don't trust the directions above. There is plenty of free parking next to the store. RSVP to: 410/269-0978, or mariac@indexing.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 09:13:36 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bookindexr Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: ICQ Chat - Update - Don't Forget AOL Chat tonight I will be unable, temporally to host the ICQ Chat room. I am still having problems with my software. The problem is the results of the Trojan horse or virus that hit me. Until I get the problem resolved the chat will continue but on an unscheduled basis. I plan to set up an additional web page to the ICQ entrance page at: http://member.aol.com/bookindexr that will list all the members of the ICQ chat call an ICQ Chat List. Once you download the software from the ICQ entrance page you can add the UIN numbers of each member from the chat list to your users list. This will enable you to see them as they come on line allowing you to initiate your own chat. There won't be any logs kept. In order to have your name and UIN number added to the list just follow the instructions on the ICQ Chat List page. If you are already a members of the chat and don't want your name added to the list let me know. It will take a few days for me to get the page set up. ( I have to learn how first...:-) Until then you can send me a message through ICQ requesting the list be E- mailed to you. You need download the ICQ program to be a registered ICQ chat member and to receive the list. If you have any questions please let me know. Susan Wilkerson Bookindexr@aol.com DON'T FORGET TONIGHT AOL CHAT AT 8:30 - If you have AOL E-mail me for the link to the room. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 09:12:31 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Anne Taylor Subject: Re: Finding full names At 10:35 AM 1/1/98 -0500, you wrote: >Can anyone tell me where I might find an online resource that can help me >to find the full names of people? For instance, I need to find the full >name of a semi-famous chess player (I only have his last name). Library of Congress has extensive name authority files on people and places. Perhaps... http://lcweb.loc.gov/catalog/ will turn up your chess player's full moniker? Anne Anne Cleester Taylor University of Missouri-St. Louis Thomas Jefferson Library Reference ataylor@umsl.edu http://www.umsl.edu/~ataylor ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:57:56 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: use of slashes In-Reply-To: <199801040538.XAA15682@mixcom.mixcom.com> >language > full/half speech, 50 I use slashes frequently (often where you could otherwise use an "and" or an "or," e.g., "full or half speech"). I use it primarily to bring together in one sub items that are closely related but can't be collapsed into one term without significant loss of meaning, e.g., communism political strategy of attacking/uncovering, 61-62, 64, 93-94 Democratic Party liberal/conservative factions, 60 Eisenhower, Dwight D. considers/considered for the presidency, 105, 106 Knowland, Senator William F. character stubbornness/determination, 56, 67, 87, 133, 137, 152, 161 >language > use of full/half speech I would leave out "use of" unless you need it to distinguish use from something else, e.g., language use of full/half speech origins of full/half speech But of course even here I'd drop "use of" and "origins of" if I could get away with just combining the entries into "full/half speech." Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 10:51:30 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Psvenndex Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: ICQ Chat - Update - Don't Forget AOL Chat tonight Sue, I may need the link for the AOL chat tonight, this is the link I have: AOL indexers chat Thanks, Pam ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 10:58:03 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Psvenndex Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: last message Sorry if I posted to the list. Pam ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:31:38 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bookindexr Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: ICQ Chat - Update - Don't Forget AOL Chat tonight That's the right one Pam...hope to see you tonight. :) Susan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 10:57:50 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Noeline Bridge Subject: House of Peers Excuse my ignorance, but what is the House of Peers? It looks like a gender-neutral way of referring to the British House of Lords: has that name changed to the former? Noeline Bridge BRIDGEWORK nbridge@planet.eon.net 10979 123 Street Edmonton, AB T5M 0E1 Canada phone 403-452-8325 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:52:04 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Seth A. Maislin" Subject: Re: use of slashes In-Reply-To: Rachel Rice "use of slashes" (Jan 3, 6:05pm) > How do people feel about the use of slashes for related topics on the same > page or page range, for example > > language > full/half speech, 50 > > as opposed to > > language > full speech, 50 > half speech, 50 Rachel, I think using the slash specifically is a matter of taste, but I prefer combining the "full speech" and "half speech" entries into a single line. But using a slash? That's like asking which you prefer: "his/her" or "his or her." (Or for that matter, thinks like "s/he," which personally I can't stand.) So a viable alternative that avoids the slash but accomplishes what you are trying to do is this: language full and half speech, 50 You can also use a comma, if you are prepared to be a bit more verbose. The slash works under these circumstances also. language full speech, half speech, 50 language full speech/half speech, 50 As an aside, combining index entries with some conceptual overlap that appear on the same page is a standard practice. For example, when two terms are synonyms, they are often combined if there is any fear of confusion: modem connection terminating (hanging up), 50 I have also been known to combine commands on the same line when they are just about identical: DimensionX(), DimensionY() methods, 50 (You'll notice I used a comma. :-) - Seth -- Seth A. Maislin (seth@oreilly.com) <-- NOTE THE NEW DOMAIN O'Reilly & Associates Focus Publishing Services 90 Sherman Street 89 Grove Street Cambridge MA 02140 Watertown MA 02172-2826 (617) 499-7439 phone (617) 924-4428 (617) 661-1116 facsimile smaislin@world.std.com URL: http://www.oreilly.com/people/staff/seth Webmaster, Amer Soc of Indexers: http://www.well.com/user/asi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:42:36 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Larry Harrison Subject: ASI TWIN CITIES MEETING - Feb. 7 This announcement is being posted to index-l, techwr-l and copyediting-l. I beg your pardon if you receive more than one copy. If you have questions about this event please contact: Larry Harrison larryh@millcomm.com ---------------------------- AMERICAN SOCIETY OF INDEXERS Twin Cities Chapter WINTER MEETING, February 7, 1998 EDITING AN INDEX FOR QUALITY AND USABILITY Presented by Lori Lathrop This workshop is for everyone who creates or edits indexes and who wants to know how to evaluate the usability, exhaustivity, and quality of an index. The workshop emphasizes retrievability, consistency, and usability concepts. Workshop participants work in groups to evaluate sample indexes and suggest solutions to a variety of problems. Lori Lathrop is a communications professional with over 16 years' experience as a technical writer, editor, and professional indexer. She delivers indexing workshops for corporate clients and professional organizations throughout North America. Her clients include the American Society for Quality Control (ASQC), Asymetrix Corporation, AT&T, Digital Equipment Corporation, IBM Corporation, Sybase, Texas Instruments, Basic Books, IDG Books Worldwide, International Thompson Computer Publishing, John Wiley & Sons, Online Books, Oryx Press, Prentice-Hall, Van Nostrand Reinhold, and many other corporations and publishing houses. Lori is Vice President/ President Elect of the American Society of Indexers and past Chair of the Colorado Chapter of the American Society of Indexers (ASI). She is also a member of the Rocky Mountain Chapter of the Society for Technical Communication (STC) and was co-Chair of that Chapter's 1996 Publications and Arts Competition. Several of Lori's articles have appeared in ASI's KeyWords newsletter and the STC Intercom magazine; her book, "An Indexer's Guide to the Internet," was published by ASI in 1994. LOCATION: Earle Brown Continuing Education Center 1890 Buford Avenue, St. Paul, MN The Earle Brown Center is located on the St. Paul Campus of the University of Minnesota. Maps, parking guides, and lodging info available on request. SCHEDULE OF EVENTS: 8:30 a.m. - 9:00 a.m. Sign in 8:30 a.m. - 12:00 noon Workshop, part I 12:00 noon - 1:00 p.m. Lunch and ASI business meeting 1:00 p.m. - 4:00 Workshop, part II COSTS: $50.00 per regular ASI member, $65.00 per non-member. Student members of ASI and RASTEC may attend for $25.00. Registration includes the all-day workshop, plus morning coffee and sweet roll, lunch and beverages. ------------------------------------------------------------------ To register, please fill in this form, print it and mail with your check payable to American Society of Indexers- Twin Cities Chapter. Please use one copy of the form per person. Confirmation of your registration will be sent by US mail or email, provided we receive it by the REGISTRATION DEADLINE: JANUARY 30, 1998. CANCELLATION DEADLINE: JANUARY 30, 1998 FOR FULL REFUND. Mailing address: American Society of Indexers c/o Larry Harrison 3936 Hwy 52 North, Suite 240 Rochester, MN 55901 Workshop: EDITING AN INDEX FOR QUALITY AND USABILITY Presented by LORI LATHROP DATE: February 7, 1998 8:30 AM to 4:00 PM (lunch provided) LOCATION: Earle Brown Continuing Education Center 1890 Buford Avenue, St. Paul, MN NAME: COMPANY: MAILSTOP: ADDRESS1: ADDRESS2: CITY: STATE: ZIP: PHONE: (W) (H) EMAIL: Check amount enclosed (do not send cash): ASI MEMBER ___ $50 STUDENT- ASI/RASTEC ___ $25 OTHER ___ $65 The provided lunch is Chicken Fajita salad, with a vegetarian salad available by ADVANCE request. If you have other dietary requirements, we suggest you plan to bring your own lunch. Please help us make an accurate count of lunches by checking one of the spaces below. _____ CHICKEN FAJITA SALAD _____ VEGETARIAN SALAD _____ NO LUNCH If you need any of the following information, please check: _____ MAP _____ PARKING GUIDE _____ LODGING INFORMATION Thank you. --------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:05:48 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Philip and Heather Jones Subject: Re: House of Peers At 10:57 AM 1/5/98 -0700, you wrote: >Excuse my ignorance, but what is the House of Peers? It looks like a >gender-neutral way of referring to the British House of Lords: has that name >changed to the former? The House of Peers is a now-extinct branch of Japan's now-extinct Imperial Diet, or legislature. Now they have a House of Representatives and a House of Councillors. Anyone wishing to know more about Japan's consitution can email me, and I'll probably be able to tell you anything, even in my sleep... Heather /---------------------------------------------------------------------\ | There are such things as cause and effect, but they have nothing to | | do with each other... | |---------------------------------------------------------------------| | Phil, Heather, Doug and Ivy Jones hpjones@rt66.com | | Los Alamos, NM | \---------------------------------------------------------------------/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 19:49:27 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Re: author-invented acronyms Sorry about bringing up a dead thread, but I'm just catching up to all my unopened holidays e-mail. One aspect of this that I didn't see anyone discuss is that in some texts seemingly every phrase with 3 words or more will be given an acronym simply for the purpose of saving space later on. This common practice can be extremely confusing to the indexer since often the vast majority of these are of no meaning or consequence beyond their use as shorthand. A beginner could drive themselves crazy double posting all these meaningless acronyms. Only a solid knowledge of the subject area and often just intuition allow you to know which are true "terms" and which aren't. Computer books are especially troublesome since a good portion of these __will__ actually be true indexable terms yet many computer authors seem to feel compelled to "acronymize" to save space. Actually when you really stop and think about this practice it's pretty dubious since the reader often is sent back many pages searching for the acronym definition. I suspect it falls into one of those "all the other authors do it" situations. Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! What do dyslexic agnostic insomniacs do? They lie awake at night wondering if there really is a dog. First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:35:25 +0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Headley and Adrian Walker-Smith Subject: Re: House of Peers >From Christine Headley Philip and Heather Jones wrote: > > At 10:57 AM 1/5/98 -0700, you wrote: > >Excuse my ignorance, but what is the House of Peers? It looks like a > >gender-neutral way of referring to the British House of Lords: has that name > >changed to the former? > > The House of Peers is a now-extinct branch of Japan's now-extinct Imperial > Diet, or legislature. I was most relieved to hear this. Individual members of the House of Lords are called peers (or peeresses), but the only reference to the British institution as the House of Peers is in *Iolanthe*. This changes the Gilbert and Sullivan operetta scenario... Christine ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:03:04 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Australian Society of Indexers Webmaster Subject: WEBIX support and training This is a freeware program. It comes as is. If you want training, please contact Dwight Walker (dwight@zip.com.au) who will come to your place in Sydney or environs for a small fee or do it over the internet using ICQ chat or email or internet phone... or wait till the new Win 95 version comes out... I am very tempted to pull it down till the new version goes up, but believe there are some diehards out there (ex DOS users) who are willing to give it a try allbeit hard to use. Since it is free I cannot very well give support out for nothing any more... Use it at your own risk. Cheers Dwight ------- Dwight Walker Webmaster Australian Society of Indexers, Sydney, NSW, Australia +61-2-98902691 (h) +61-(0)412-405727 (mobile), fax +61-2-97772058 ICQ chat id wwwalker, no. 4631678 (www.mirabilis.com) URL: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 22:14:17 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Noeline Bridge Subject: House of Peers Like Christine Headley, I'm relieved that the House of Lords has retained its name--and fascinated to learn of the two uses of House of Peers, in Japan and in Iolanthe. After I'd confessed my ignorance to everyone on Index-L, I looked further into the Boolean search I'd done on my CD-ROM encyclopedia and now noticed that there were two references to the Japanese diet, which I'd chauvinistically ignored. So I'll pass up for now on Heather's generous offer to share her knowledge of the Japanese constitution (even in her sleep), and conclude with thanks to Christine and Heather for enlightenment. Noeline Bridge BRIDGEWORK nbridge@planet.eon.net 10979 123 Street Edmonton, AB T5M 0E1 Canada phone 403-452-8325 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:52:00 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Elaine R. Firestone" Subject: Re: author-invented acronyms Kevin Mulrooney writes: >>"One aspect of this that I didn't see anyone discuss is that in some texts seemingly every phrase with 3 words or more will be given an acronym simply for the purpose of saving space later on. This common practice can be extremely confusing to the indexer since often the vast majority of these are of no meaning or consequence beyond their use as shorthand. A beginner could drive themselves crazy double posting all these meaningless acronyms. Only a solid knowledge of the subject area and often just intuition allow you to know which are true "terms" and which aren't. Computer books are especially troublesome since a good portion of these __will__ actually be true indexable terms yet many computer authors seem to feel compelled to "acronymize" to save space.">> <<"Actually when you really stop and think about this practice it's pretty dubious since the reader often is sent back many pages searching for the acronym definition. I suspect it falls into one of those "all the other authors do it" situations.">> _______________________ Speaking as an author, editor, _and_ indexer, I can certainly see Kevin's point here, but I also see where these author invented acronyms come from. I can speak from personal experience that often it's not the author who invents them, but the editor (moi). In science treatises, as I'm sure happens in the social sciences and other disciplines, a concept is introduced that has three-to-four words in it, which is used over and over and over again. Sometimes, there are two of these types of concepts (3-to-4 words each) that differ only in one word. If the editor (or author) _doesn't_ make them into an acronym (or "initialism" if it doesn't spell anything pronouncable), it is (a) more difficult for the reader to follow, (b) can lead to typographical horrors, and (c) can increase production costs because of the increased space needed to write out everything. Example: I recently finished a chapter in a technical memorandum that had such phrases as "band-weighted center wavelength", "band-weighted spectral radiance", and "effective center wavelength". I won't go into details of what these mean, but I (as the editor) insisted on acronyms here. Otherwise, I'd wind up with such wonderful prose as "The band-weighted center wavelength was derived from the band-weighted spectral radiance, and through the model, the effective center wavelength was derived." The above is, of course, an over-statement, but you get my drift. The result can be an alphabet soup of acronyms if it isn't handled properly, but I try to deal with that when the time comes. Also, as I mentioned, not using the acronyms can lead to typographic horrors. The word "band-weighted" is already hyphenated, so unless the line break comes at the end of the word "band", you're sunk because no DTP software program worth its salt will break up the word "weighted", especially after an existing hyphen (we're talking right and left justified text here folks). And don't get me started on the lengths I have to go to for the word "length" 8-). Also, please remember everyone, that books, articles, reports, etc., are written and edited for the intended reader of the publication and not the indexer. The indexer is there to help the reader navigate through the text when help is required. Please, please, please do not take this as a flame anyone (especially you Kevin). It certainly was not meant as such. It's just that when someone is doing one specific job and may not be involved in other aspects of the publishing process, one may not be aware of the other issues governing how the text was written and produced into its final form. My $0.05. elaine Elaine R. Firestone, ELS elaine@calval.gsfc.nasa.gov elaine@seawifs.gsfc.nasa.gov ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:24:53 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: author-invented acronyms In-Reply-To: <199801061505.HAA18547@powergrid.electriciti.com> I really have no problem with authors selecting their own acronyms and initialisms. The forms are "invented" whomever uses them. What drives me batty is inconsistency in the same volume. This crops up pretty often in contributed volumes (chapters by various authors) and even in single-author works. Those here who also copyedit: Please, please, please seek to determine and employ one acronym or initialism for a given phrase and please maintain consistency in the phrase for a volume. I also trust that indexers complain about misuse to their production editor or other publisher contact. More and more, publishers appear to care less and less. We need to let them know we care and that the "bottom line" eventually does depend on quality. Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:38:11 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: author-invented acronyms In-Reply-To: <199801060050.QAA29295@pacific.net> Kevin wrote, in part: >A beginner >could drive themselves crazy double posting all these meaningless acronyms. >Only a solid knowledge of the subject area and often just intuition allow >you to know which are true "terms" and which aren't. Computer books are >especially troublesome since a good portion of these __will__ actually be >true indexable terms yet many computer authors seem to feel compelled to >"acronymize" to save space. > >Actually when you really stop and think about this practice it's pretty >dubious since the reader often is sent back many pages searching for the >acronym definition. I suspect it falls into one of those "all the other >authors do it" situations. Having to look endlessly to figure out such an author-generated acronym is precisely why I do index them. I wasn't aware that is wasn't good practice to do so. What do others think? Best, Victoria ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:50:43 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Re: author-invented acronyms Elaine wrote: >Speaking as an author, editor, _and_ indexer, I can certainly see Kevin's >point here, but I also see where these author invented acronyms come from. >I can speak from personal experience that often it's not the author who >invents them, but the editor (moi). In science treatises, as I'm sure >happens in the social sciences and other disciplines, a concept is >introduced that has three-to-four words in it, which is used over and over >and over again. Sometimes, there are two of these types of concepts (3-to-4 >words each) that differ only in one word. If the editor (or author) >_doesn't_ make them into an acronym (or "initialism" if it doesn't spell >anything pronouncable), it is (a) more difficult for the reader to follow, >(b) can lead to typographical horrors, and (c) can increase production >costs because of the increased space needed to write out everything. > Elaine, thanks for letting us in on the other side of the story. Your points are excellent and I take back my claim that this practice is "dubious". [I broke my usual practice of writing a post and stewing over it for a few days before sending out anything dubious]. I should have said something something more like "sometimes overused". Sometimes when I see it it's done when it saves perhaps only 2-3 occurrences of the phrase. I still stand by my contention that some authors "acronymize" compulsively. The issue of how the indexer handles the situation still remains: is it "indexable" or an acronym of convenience. Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! What do dyslexic agnostic insomniacs do? They lie awake at night wondering if there really is a dog. First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:00:26 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cheryl Jackson Subject: Re[2]: author-invented acronyms Here at Macmillan Publishing, our convention for acronyms in the index is to always put the meaning of the acronym in parentheses as follows: RAM (random access memory), 24-26 We also double-post under the acronym's meaning -- random access memory (RAM) in the above example -- but many times end up deleting this entry if it falls too close to the acronym in the index. Since there are so many acronyms in computer books, I think it helps the reader to see the meaning of each acronym spelled out in the index instead of being confronted with alphabet soup, especially since some computer acronyms have different meanings depending on the context in which they're used. Cheryl Jackson Macmillan Publishing ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: author-invented acronyms Author: Victoria Baker at internet Date: 1/6/98 7:38 AM Having to look endlessly to figure out such an author-generated acronym is precisely why I do index them. I wasn't aware that is wasn't good practice to do so. What do others think? Best, Victoria ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:18:20 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: CGWeaver Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: author-invented acronyms In a message dated 98-01-06 09:56:12 EST, you write: << If the editor (or author) _doesn't_ make them into an acronym (or "initialism" if it doesn't spell anything pronouncable), it is (a) more difficult for the reader to follow, (b) can lead to typographical horrors, and (c) can increase production costs because of the increased space needed to write out everything. >> To tie this discussion into a recent query about why medical indexers use online databases, situations like this are why I own/use MeSH (_Medical Subject Headings_) and Medline online files. When I can't translate an acronym or it's unfamiliar to me, I check MeSH or log onto Medline and do a textword search. If the acronym doesn't appear in MeSH or my medical abbreviations dictionary, my assumption is that it's probably not common enough to need an entry. Carolyn Weaver ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:24:39 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: author-invented acronyms Victoria wrote: >Having to look endlessly to figure out such an author-generated acronym is >precisely why I do index them. I wasn't aware that is wasn't good practice >to do so. What do others think? I agree. As a reader, if I don't recognize an acronym, I'll check the index to see if a) if it has been cross-referenced (which saves me time), and b) if not, where else the acronym appears, in case the full term has been used on one of those pages. The latter is annoying, but better than searching the whole book. When I index, I cross-reference any acronyms which are used on pages where the full term is not also employed. What I mean is that if the acronym appears ONLY on pages in which the full term is also used, I don't think it is necessary to index the acronym (unless the acronym itself is well-known enough that readers can be expected to look it up.) OTOH, if an acronym appears by itself on a pages, I'll cross-reference from the acronym to the full term. I sometimes double-post instead, but only if an acronym is really well-known (like FBI.) However (I always have to look at all the angles!), I can see that in a book where many acronyms are used, this practice could take up a lot of space. If space is a consideration, it might not be possible to include and cross-reference acronyms while still covering everything else that needs to be covered. Any suggestions on what to do in that case? Kara Pekar jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:26:25 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Re: author-invented acronyms Victoria wrote: >Kevin wrote, in part: >... >> >>Actually when you really stop and think about this practice it's pretty >>dubious since the reader often is sent back many pages searching for the >>acronym definition. I suspect it falls into one of those "all the other >>authors do it" situations. > (Victoria) >Having to look endlessly to figure out such an author-generated acronym is >precisely why I do index them. I wasn't aware that is wasn't good practice >to do so. What do others think? I repeat my retraction of the "dubious" statement, and modify it to "sometimes overused". When used as Elaine described it's an entirely appropriate practice and I'm sorry for creating the impression it's not a good practice. But Victoria raises an interesting point. I feel that the mere use of an acronym, no matter how often it's applied, does _not_ make it indexable per se. The issue is whether or not it's in common use in the subject area (as the acronym) or a temporary acronym of convenience, in which I would fall back on the full term and decide if it's indexable. Would two scientists refer to "time-weighted average displacement" or TWAD? I suspect the former. For example as a chemical engineer in a former life I would scratch my head (momentarily at least) at "LH isotherm" in an index as opposed to Langmuir-Hinshelwood isotherm. On the other hand I would know instantly what the "BET method" is though I can't remember the individual names without looking it up. That term has entered the common parlance of the profession, LH isotherm has not. Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! What do dyslexic agnostic insomniacs do? They lie awake at night wondering if there really is a dog. First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:17:25 -0400 Reply-To: monkey@interport.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: keith chadwick Subject: Re: author-invented acronyms In chemistry and physiology books, the use of an acronym and abbreviation page with the full term and no page indications is one solution but then this is actually a glossary and requires frequent page flipping for the reader. John and Kara Pekar wrote: > > Victoria wrote: > > >Having to look endlessly to figure out such an author-generated acronym is > >precisely why I do index them. I wasn't aware that is wasn't good > practice > >to do so. What do others think? > > I agree. As a reader, if I don't recognize an acronym, I'll check the > index to see if a) if it has been cross-referenced (which saves me time), > and b) if not, where else the acronym appears, in case the full term has > been used on one of those pages. The latter is annoying, but better than > searching the whole book. > > When I index, I cross-reference any acronyms which are used on pages where > the full term is not also employed. What I mean is that if the acronym > appears ONLY on pages in which the full term is also used, I don't think it > is necessary to index the acronym (unless the acronym itself is well-known > enough that readers can be expected to look it up.) OTOH, if an acronym > appears by itself on a pages, I'll cross-reference from the acronym to the > full term. I sometimes double-post instead, but only if an acronym is > really well-known (like FBI.) > > However (I always have to look at all the angles!), I can see that in a > book where many acronyms are used, this practice could take up a lot of > space. If space is a consideration, it might not be possible to include > and cross-reference acronyms while still covering everything else that > needs to be covered. Any suggestions on what to do in that case? > > Kara Pekar > jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:19:34 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DP1301 Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: author-invented acronyms In a message dated 98-01-06 11:32:29 EST, you write: << or TWAD >> In the "take humor where you can get it" mode, this acronym brings to mind another -- TTWWADI which was a punchline. During an office retreat one year, it was someone's idea for us to focus on being creative. So these two knuckleheads put together a skit. Manager (without knocking) enters (barges into) office and demands that employee make a "42M937Q." Recognizing that this had not been done before the employee immediately replied, "I'm sorry, you have the wrong office. This is the TTWWADI office. You want the Inventions Office down the hall." Manager presses employee, Employee demurs and demurs and finally shouts "This is the TTWWADDI office - That's The Way We've Always Done It office"! And we got the point as we laughed ourselves silly. Back to my index, Deborah ==================== Deborah Patton, Indexer Baltimore, MD dp1301@aol.com 410/243-4688 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:24:16 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: author-invented acronyms In-Reply-To: <199801061601.IAA20750@powergrid.electriciti.com> At 10:50 AM 1/6/98 -0500, Kevin wrote: >The issue of how the indexer handles the situation still remains: is it >"indexable" or an acronym of convenience. > To me, material that readers will want/need to locate and/or reflects a vital aspect of the writer's intention is what should be indexed. I am relatively certain that Kevin would not bypass vital information just because it was incorporated into an acronym/initial of "convenience." Personally I nearly always index by the spelled-out form with the actual acronym/initialism following in parentheses. North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) Best, Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:56:27 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mark Dempsey Subject: Re: author-invented acronyms -Reply Always decide about potential entries enlightened by where most reasonable index users would look first. Make the rules fit the predilictions of the index users. If people would look for the acronym before they would consult the full name, treat it under the acronym, then cover it appropriately (double treat under or cross reference from) under the full name. Conversely, use full name and cover appropriately under acronym alternatives when that conforms to index user preferences. Serving index users should animate all index decisions. Mark >>> Pam Rider 01/06/98 12:24pm >>> At 10:50 AM 1/6/98 -0500, Kevin wrote: >The issue of how the indexer handles the situation still remains: is it >"indexable" or an acronym of convenience. > To me, material that readers will want/need to locate and/or reflects a vital aspect of the writer's intention is what should be indexed. I am relatively certain that Kevin would not bypass vital information just because it was incorporated into an acronym/initial of "convenience." Personally I nearly always index by the spelled-out form with the actual acronym/initialism following in parentheses. North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) Best, Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 10:50:12 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Elaine R. Firestone" Subject: Re: author-invented acronyms In-Reply-To: <199801070519.AAA12318@calval-2.gsfc.nasa.gov> Pam Rider writes: >Those here who also copyedit: Please, please, please seek to determine and >employ one acronym or initialism for a given phrase and please maintain >consistency in the phrase for a volume. I say AMEN to that Pam! I get the same things in chapter publications where more than one author is writing. In addition, I get it in spades throughout the entire series of technical memoranda I edit and index. I have to maintain consistency not only throughout the individual volumes, but throughout the series, too. And Kevin writes: >I should have said >something more like "sometimes overused". Sometimes when I see it >it's done when it saves perhaps only 2-3 occurrences of the phrase. I still >stand by my contention that some authors "acronymize" compulsively. Very true Kevin. I agree with you that the fewer acronyms the better. Lots of times, my writers will come up with an acronym and then use it only a couple of times in the document. I get rid of these post-haste, _unless_ the acronym itself is more widely known within the community than the definition (e.g., NASA, instead of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration), then I let them get away with it. Cheryl Jackson writes: > Here at Macmillan Publishing, our convention for acronyms in the index > is to always put the meaning of the acronym in parentheses as follows: > > RAM (random access memory), 24-26 > > We also double-post under the acronym's meaning -- random access > memory (RAM) in the above example -- but many times end up deleting > this entry if it falls too close to the acronym in the index. I do something like this also, although I use a cross-reference for the actual definition. So, using Cheryl's example, I'd index it as: random access memory, see RAM Then under RAM, I'd put in all the page numbers. Some of our acronyms stand for such a long phrase that to put in the definition of the acronym again, would be prohibitive regarding space. For instance, we have one acronym "SIRREX". This stands for the "SeaWiFS Intercalibration Round-Robin Experiment" (now you know why it's an acronym folks ). Next to this entry, I have "see SIRREX", which is what most people in the community would look under. But, to make matters worse, we've had five of these experiments, each reported in a different volume, so I have SIRREX-1, SIRREX-2, and so on up to SIRREX-5 . For the "author invented acronyms" I used in my first post, the band-weighted spectral radiance (or BSR as it became in the text) is indexed under "spectral radiance" because it _is_ an acronym of convenience, as Kevin so aptly put it, and no one referring to the index would look it up as "BSR". elaine Elaine R. Firestone, ELS elaine@calval.gsfc.nasa.gov elaine@seawifs.gsfc.nasa.gov ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:34:18 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Noeline Bridge Subject: Re: author-invented acronyms Kevin wrote: "I feel that the mere use of an acronym, no matter how often it's applied, does _not_ make it indexable per se. The issue is whether or not it's in common use in the subject area (as the acronym) or a temporary acronym of convenience, in which I would fall back on the full term and decide if it's indexable. Would two scientists refer to "time-weighted average displacement" or TWAD? I suspect the former. For example as a chemical engineer in a former life I would scratch my head (momentarily at least) at "LH isotherm" in an index as opposed to Langmuir-Hinshelwood isotherm. On the other hand I would know instantly what the "BET method" is though I can't remember the individual names without looking it up. That term has entered the common parlance of the profession, LH isotherm has not." Why not include both the acronym and the longer term in the index, with each qualified by the other? I do not agree that the issue is whether the acronym is the author's invention or has entered the common parlance of the profession. When we index a book, aren't we are indexing an author's invention, no matter how eccentric that invention may be? If the author wants to glut the text with acronyms, we accept them for what they are and provide a path through the maze. I should think that deciding what is the common parlance of the profession, and using that, applies more to compiling a thesaurus or an index to an open-ended series than an index to one book. Certainly, such knowledge is very useful to have when the author's intentions are unclear and there's no glossary (to help the indexer as well as the reader!), in recognizing eccentricity when one comes upon it, and on the few occasions when the book indexer does need to provide a more structured, hierarchical sort of index--a classified scheme or thesaurus--rare, but perhaps Kevin has instances of this in mind. Noeline Bridge BRIDGEWORK nbridge@planet.eon.net 10979 123 Street Edmonton, AB T5M 0E1 Canada phone 403-452-8325 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 10:57:34 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rebecca Carr Subject: indexing acronyms You said: "Having to look endlessly to figure out such an author-generated acronym is precisely why I do index them. I wasn't aware that is wasn't good practice to do so. What do others think? Best, Victoria" ******************** Rather than indexing all acronyms, I add an alphabetized glossary of terms and/or acronyms to the book as an appendix. This is very useful and appreciated by the reader; he/she doesn't have to waste time looking back through the text for the meaning. If your main task is indexing, you could suggest this to the writer/publisher as a solution. Certainly, any given acronym should only have one meaning throughout a document. If you choose, you could offer to create a glossary of acronyms for the author/publisher (at an additional cost, of course) Just a thought. Becky Also, I index the term with the acronym in parens. If the acronym is known and used often instead of the term, I also index the acronym. But I don't have a hard and fast rule to index all terms...it depends on the subject and context. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:22:35 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bookindexr Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: author-invented acronyms In a message dated 98-01-07 10:55:48 EST, you write: << For the "author invented acronyms" I used in my first post, the band-weighted spectral radiance (or BSR as it became in the text) is indexed under "spectral radiance" because it _is_ an acronym of convenience, as Kevin so aptly put it, and no one referring to the index would look it up as "BSR" >> Elaine as a reader that wasn't familiar with the term, band-weighted spectral radiance, and reading along came across BSR ...I would look first for a glossary ...not finding one I would then look in the index to see if I could find a cross reference of something to tell me what it means. Not finding it I would then have to resort to scanning the pages. I think I would be sitting there wondering why it wasn't in the index and wishing it were. Whether it's author created or created by Webster or who ever what difference does it make if the reader doesn't know what it means. I believe the indexer is hired to make the authors work easier to read and understand. It's his business however he wants to write his book. But I am a newbie maybe I will change my mind from a reader's opinion to a indexer's once I get a few under my belt....:-) Susan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:14:19 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: author-invented acronyms In-Reply-To: <199801061729.JAA03577@mail-gw2.pacbell.net> At 09:24 AM 1/6/98 -0800, Pam wrote: >To me, material that readers will want/need to locate and/or reflects a >vital aspect of the writer's intention is what should be indexed. I am >relatively certain that Kevin would not bypass vital information just >because it was incorporated into an acronym/initial of "convenience." I wholeheartedly agree with Pam on what should be indexed. Personally, I post my entries either at the acronym or the spellout, depending on which heading readers are more likely to access as Mark does, double-posting when there are only a few locators. However, I have worked according to a style guide that specified that all acronyms be posted at the spellout (regardless of the number of locators or whether the acronym is more commonly used). I depart from standard practice (when allowed) about cross-referencing from the spellout if an acronym is so commonly used that including the spellout in the index is IMHO excessive. I don't create main headings for these spellouts, but do include the spellout in parens after the acronym. (Would anyone really look under "random access memory" for discussions on RAM, these days? ;-D) Pam brought up a very basic issue; i.e., what is "indexable". This issue was also underlying a question asked here a few weeks ago about whether to index the title of an imaginary book. So, it really seems to become an issue with some of us when a concept is simply a construct of the author; e.g., an imaginary book or an "imaginary" acronym. IMHO, if there is a substantive discussion, it should be indexed and some readers may try to access those discussions by the "imaginary" book title or acronym. Aren't we also trying to serve those users who are already familiar with the book, including the author's inventions? And, BTW, don't all acronyms start life as someone's invention? ;-D Lynn *********************************** Lynn Moncrief (techndex@pacbell.net) TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing *********************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:46:07 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: author-invented acronyms Yes, I think Noeline and Susan are on the right track here. I try to remember that my job as indexer is to represent in the index the book the author wrote. It's important to respect the choices made by the author, and terminology and use of acronyms is one of those choices. I'm sure the editor went over this point too, if there is an overuse of acronyms, or some odd acronyms, in the text. We work for the publisher, and secondarily, for the author, So when only "standard" acronyms in a given field are used, then it is important to follow the style of the publisher if he/she has a style. Some double post. Some cross reference. Some ask you to pick the commonly used form and X-ref from the other. Whatever that is, find out what it is, and follow it. However, if the text is loaded with acronyms, and the indexer only uses the spelled out version, the reader/searcher will go to a page and not see what he/she is looking for in spelled out form, and that is not good practice by the indexer. In that case, it is important to follow the lead of the author, and incorporate these acronyms into the index, so the searcher, if unfamiliar with the term in its full form, can find the acronym. It is not always up to us to judge whether or not to include the acronym. The author of the book has made that choide. We follow. It is our function, as indexers, to serve the reader by being a roadmap into the text (my favorite visualization of indexing!). I think we must always remember that. We must never introduce our own philosophies or judgements above those of the author (as expressed in the text). We must reflect the text. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Janet Perlman ..................... (602) 569-7302 .................. jperlman@aol.com Southwest Indexing 610 East Bell Road, Suite 2-157, Phoenix, AZ 85022 (NOTE THE NEW ADDRESS) +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:44:52 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mark Dempsey Subject: Re: author-invented acronyms -Reply Susan, try not to lose the reader's perspective. It is the perspective of the reader that should drive indexing decisions rather than Indexer conventions driving indexing decisions. Mark >>> Bookindexr 01/07/98 12:22pm >>> In a message dated 98-01-07 10:55:48 EST, you write: << For the "author invented acronyms" I used in my first post, the band-weighted spectral radiance (or BSR as it became in the text) is indexed under "spectral radiance" because it _is_ an acronym of convenience, as Kevin so aptly put it, and no one referring to the index would look it up as "BSR" >> Elaine as a reader that wasn't familiar with the term, band-weighted spectral radiance, and reading along came across BSR ...I would look first for a glossary ...not finding one I would then look in the index to see if I could find a cross reference of something to tell me what it means. Not finding it I would then have to resort to scanning the pages. I think I would be sitting there wondering why it wasn't in the index and wishing it were. Whether it's author created or created by Webster or who ever what difference does it make if the reader doesn't know what it means. I believe the indexer is hired to make the authors work easier to read and understand. It's his business however he wants to write his book. But I am a newbie maybe I will change my mind from a reader's opinion to a indexer's once I get a few under my belt....:-) Susan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:40:09 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: author-invented acronyms In-Reply-To: <199801070521.XAA14865@mixcom.mixcom.com> In a lot of this discussion, I think we've been assuming the user of the index hasn't read the book. However, some users of indexes will have already read the book and will later want to look things up again in the index. So those readers may look up the acronyms they learned from the book (especially if they're catchy) *regardless* of whether they are common in that field. That's an argument for double-posting them *without* deciding or figuring out whether they're invented purely for convenience. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:04:01 +0000 Reply-To: lbindex@picard.omn.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lee Ellen Brower Organization: Brower Indexing Services Subject: MACREX STRIP Utility I'm creating multiple indexes at the request of a publisher. I have begun to enter these indexes into a single MACREX file. Author Index and Title Index have prefixes which allow them to sort separately. I have attempted to use the MACREX STRIP utility to separate these into their own .mbk files, but the instructions in the MACREX manual seem unsufficient on this and DOS says it doesn't know what I'm talking about. I would appreciate information from people who have more experience using this method. Thanks, Lee Brower Loveland, Colorado ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:25:54 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: MACREX STRIP Utility I'd like to see hints on this as well. Could people who reply please do so on-list, or at least to both Lee and myself? TIA, Kara Pekar jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:37:34 +0000 Reply-To: lbindex@picard.omn.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lee Ellen Brower Organization: Brower Indexing Services Subject: MACREX STRIP Utility Please disregard my earlier request for information. My problem was solved by working with Gale Rhoades. For those with similar questions, watch for the next MACREX newsletter - enviromental variables will be one of the topics. Gale helped me change my autoexec.bat file so that Windows95 wouldn't interfere with MACREX utilities. Thanks, all Lee Brower ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:14:21 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dwight Walker Subject: CEASA - direct marketing This article was written by my ex-boss Bernie Holt, a marketing guru for the past 30 years. http://www.geko.com/~ceasa/prdirect.html Many indexers seem to battle with marketing - we're all competitors in a way so can't really team up that much except in society directories. See this insightful press release from CEASA (Commercial Economic Advisory Service of Australia) about the increasing impact of direct marketing over traditional 'main media' ads such as newspapers, magazines, TV and radio... I might even start taking the advice myself! Dwight ---------------------------------------------------------- Dwight Walker, Sydney, Australia tel +61-2-98902691, mob 0412-405727, fax +61-2-97772058 ICQ No. 4631678, handle: wwwalker (www.mirabilis.com) WWWalker Web Development: http://www.wwwalker.com.au Australian Society of Indexers: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi Sydney Linux Users Group: http://www.slug.org.au Waverley Randwick Philharmonic http://www.wwwalker.com.au/wrps.html