From LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu Wed Sep 16 14:04:23 1998 Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 14:07:52 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB To: Julius Ariail Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9807A" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 15:58:49 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Alan Walker Subject: History and theory of indexing (was: "Portraits in Cataloging and Classification") Like Melinda Davis, I was delighted to find that the person who taught me most about indexing got a guernsey in "Portraits in Cataloging and Classification: Theorists, Educators, and Practitioners of the Late Twentieth Century". Like Melinda, when I was in library school I had no intention of becoming an indexer, and John Metcalfe (my teacher) thought he was teaching us about Subject Cataloguing. But because he taught us basic principles (like specific entry) and rules of thumb, and because he tied everything back to the people who thought and wrote intelligently about the theory of subject access to information (going back to Cutter in 1876), it all flooded back when I became an indexer twenty years later. I have to thank Gerry Van Ravenswaay for drawing my attention to the article on Metcalfe at the Seattle conference, and for providing me with a copy. And I have to urge those of you who are starting out as indexers to make sure you find out something about the history and theory of our profession. You are *not* the first person who has had to think through these problems. Even if you don't have the benefit of a great teacher, there are great books to read, and there is the great resource of "The Indexer." Most importantly, if we are any sort of profession, we must recognise that we do have a formidable set of principles and techniques which we can apply to new situations. Technological challenges are much less scary to those who know something about how modern indexing has adapted and developed over the last one-hundred-and-twenty-two years. Sorry to get preachy, but I feel strongly about this. (And will someone please remind me who said: "Those who know no history are doomed to repeat its mistakes"?) Alan Melinda Davis wrote: >Indexers and catalogers may be interested in two recent issues of >Cataloging and Classification Quarterly (v.25, #2/3 & #4)--it is a >series of "Portraits in Cataloging and Classification: Theorists, >Educators, and Practitioners of the Late Twentieth Century." Hans >Wellisch is in #4. I was delighted to find my library school >cataloging prof included--brought back some good memories, and guess >what, I found out that she belonged to ASI! Of course, when I was in >library school, I had absolutely no intention of becoming a >cataloger, although I loved the course, and indexing would have been >even further from my mind. And now here I am, a cataloger who >indexes on the side. Things have a way of coming full circle, don't >they? >Melinda D. Davis >Assistant Professor and Catalog Librarian >College of Law Library >University of Tennessee >1505 W. Cumberland Avenue >Knoxville, TN 37996-1800 >(423) 974-6552 >(423) 974-6571 (fax) >e-mail: davis@libra.law.utk.edu -- **************************************************************** Alan Walker, Indexer President, Australian Society of Indexers 10 Rockwall Crescent, Potts Point, NSW, Australia 2011 Tel: +61 2 9368 0174 +61 2 9368 0176 Fax: +61 2 9358 5593 Email: alan.walker@s054.aone.net.au **************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 07:53:29 +0000 Reply-To: connolly@neca.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dan Connolly Organization: WORD FOR WORD Book Indexing Subject: Re: Attrition rate for USDA course Carol Deason wrote: > Can anyone tell me how long the USDA course has been in existence? Carol The earliest year for which I see a copyright listed in the course guide is 1987. Dan -- ========================================= Daniel A. Connolly mailto:connolly@neca.com WORD FOR WORD Indexing and Editing Services www.wfwIndex.necaweb.com Woodstock, CT, USA ========================================= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:10:33 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Subject: Re: Email file delivery In-Reply-To: <04084527578183@domain1.bigpond.com> > Jan Wright asked: > > >what proportion of your indexes need > >to be submitted electronically? and Alan Walker replied: > > My own pattern is that nearly all my clients ask for a file on > disc (usually > Word ot RTF format), together with a paper copy. (This may say something > about Australian publishers.) I don't think I've ever been asked to supply an index by email, but I now always offer, and the editor usually accepts, usually requesting paper and disc copies as well. Its a wonderful way to save a day or two in a schedule. I have had some difficulties. One index which I had to submit to an editor in Sydney went via the company's head office in the U.S. On the way the file got chopped to bits and came back as total garbage. I then sent a disk. This has confirmed to me the odd observation that in many ways a humble freelancer's home office has more effective email access than the largest multinational. Glenda. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 08:30:26 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: YJ2@CU.NIH.GOV Subject: Courses for database indexing Can anyone suggest courses that would be of interest to a database indexer? I am aware of the USDA course. I am interested in classes for continuing education or something that could lead to a degree. I am located in the Washington, DC Metro area. TIA, Jena York-Jolley yj2@cu.nih.gov ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 08:42:01 -0500 Reply-To: lyjohnso@hsc.unt.edu Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Lynn F. Johnson" Organization: UNTHSC Subject: Re: Courses for database indexing I am also interested in database indexing courses, ceu's, etc. I am located in Fort Worth, Texas, area. Thank you! Lynn E-mail: lyjohnso@hsc.unt.edu E-mail: lynn@airmail.net YJ2@CU.NIH.GOV wrote: > Can anyone suggest courses that would be of interest to a database > indexer? I am aware of the USDA course. I am interested in classes > for continuing education or something that could lead to a degree. > I am located in the Washington, DC Metro area. > TIA, > Jena York-Jolley > yj2@cu.nih.gov ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 10:10:04 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Email file delivery Glenda's experience has paralleled mine. Some clients still have trouble receiving an electronic file. There are still cross-platform or server- introduced glitches, it seems. Most of my clients will accept electronic transfer. But some, knowing what the file will look like when received, due to the nature of their own email system, wisely refuse electronic delivery and request disk submission. Many clients say they want that disk so they can send it on to their compositor with the hard copy. And, horror of horrors, they want to "edit" (I hope that means look at only!) the index in hard copy. Maybe it means they want to mark it. I hesitate to inquire further. ;-\ I'd say my business is about half and half - disk delivery or electronic file transfer. I've never had to provide camera ready, thank goodness! One benefit of disk submission by FedEx is that the invoice travels with the index, and gets there much more quickly than if it were sent on by snailmail. It basically saves a week in terms of time in the mail, which is a week in terms of cash flow. That's a benefit I like. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 10:12:48 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Hughes Subject: Re: History and theory of indexing Alan Walker wrote: >I have to thank Gerry Van Ravenswaay for drawing my attention to the article on Metcalfe at the Seattle conference, and for providing me with a copy I thought that indexers who are interested in the history of indexing would appreciate another treasure that Gerry van Ravenswaay rediscovered. On his website he has copied and reprinted a chapter from How to Make an Index by Henry B. Wheatley published in 1903. It gives a look into the process of indexing that makes me very grateful for CINDEX. It includes such topics as "indexes to commonplace books" - a topic we had on Index-L a few weeks ago. The following passage is a sample to whet your interest. "In the present day when paper is so cheap, it is well to use fresh sheets all of the same size either quarto post or foolscap. Some persons are so absurdly economical as to use the blank sides of used paper, such as envelopes, etc., so that their manuscript is of all sizes and will never range. It is necessary to warn such persons that they lose more time by the inconvenient form of their paper than they gain by not buying new material." You can find Gerry's site at http://www.xsite.net\~gvrindex Enter the index by clicking on the door to the book (of course) Sharon Hughes ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:26:09 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Sutherland Subject: Re: electronic vs. paper The message <199806301134.MAA32121@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> from Ann Hudson contains these words: > As another UK member, I can confirm Christine Shuttleworth's point that > many British publishers aren't really into e-mail yet - even if they have it, >most of them prefer phone or fax. > I have never been asked to submit an index via e-mail - disk plus hard copy > is the universal method and has been for more or less as long as I rememb> er > (I think the first one I did was about 10 years ago). They may be starting to catch up. I've just encountered one UK publisher who asked for disk or email - no hard copy. -- Linda Sutherland linda.sutherland@zetnet.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 10:34:00 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "S. Greenhouse" Subject: Re: Courses for database indexing Yipee. A database question (sorry, I always react this way). I've been a database indexer for about 8 years now, working on medical and biological/life science journal articles. I've worked for several different publishers and they all have in-house training. One exception might be the National Library of Medicine. They have contracts with several companies which supply outside indexers. NLM runs a 2 week training course (full time) followed by a 6 week in-library "apprenticeship" (again, full time), all of which is paid for by the contractor. The contractor in return gets you, a trained NLM/MeSH indexer. You would have to check into whether any of the contractors are hiring. There are plenty of sites on the Web that list databases (check the index-l archives for posts by Roberta Horowitz, around this time last year for URLs). Write to the companies that produce the databases and inquire. Beware, I did this last year, got a contract and a 3-day training course, but only got 6 months of work! No one told me that my employment was only until their backlog got cleared up. I should also note that the folks I work for are always cutting back on the amount of work they send out, as the print products are being eliminated and computers take over the universe. For even more excited discourse, ask me. Shelley Greenhouse (the alternative indexer?) greenhou@erols.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 10:39:15 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Lane Subject: Correction to URL Sharon wrote > You can find Gerry's site at http://www.xsite.net\~gvrindex > Enter the index by clicking on the door to the book (of course) But if you really want to get there, use a forward (not back) slash, and go to http://www.xsite.net/~gvrindex Karen Lane klane@digital.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 07:46:37 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: E-Books Along the lines of the "books will never die" topic, here's an article on the new series of electronic books being developed in time for Christmas. These are handheld devices you can download text into, and they display it very much like a page in a book, about the same size. So I wonder if anyone is providing indexes????? Check it out at: http://www.abcnews.com/sections/tech/DailyNews/ebooks980630.html I imagine my wrists would hurt after a while if I tried to read a novel with one of these... Jan Wright ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 10:56:27 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Gerald VanRavenswaay Subject: Re: History and theory of indexing Thank you Sharon for the publicity. However the correct URL is http://www.xsite.net/~gvrindex. (There's a forward slash before the tilde instead of a back slash.) I have also included a brief biographical essay of Henry Benjamin Wheatly, often referred to as the "father" of modern indexing. I agree with Alan Walker that knowing the history of our profession is important especially as we begin to index the fourth medium of written communication--hypertext. Many who have labored before us have valuable lessons to teach us. Gerry Van Ravenswaay ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 11:20:43 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Organization: Crossover Information Services Subject: Re: History and theory of indexing (was: "Portraits in Cataloging and Classification") Alan Walker wrote: Terrific post about understanding and studying our profession. Thanks, Alan. > (And will someone please remind me who said: "Those who know no history are > doomed to repeat its mistakes"?) George Sanatyana, 1863-1952, _The Life of Reason, vol.1, Reason in Common Sense_, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." Euripides, 485-406 BCE, __Phrixus_, "Whoso neglects learning in his youth, Loses the past and is dead for the future." -- Ann Norcross Crossover Information Services (919) 852-0042 mailto:norcross@ipass.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 11:43:20 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: Email file delivery I have emailed indexes several times, but ironically, it has always been because the files on disk weren't usable. In one case, someone at the publisher may have goofed in trying to convert the file to their format, although I had sent the file in the format they had requested in the past. In another other case, they had specified a word processor but not a version, and the version I was using was several revisions later than the one they had. Now I always ask for very specific file information!) Janet Perlman said: > Many clients say they want that disk so they can send it on to their > compositor with the hard copy. And, horror of horrors, they want to "edit" (I > hope that means look at only!) the index in hard copy. Maybe it means they > want to mark it. I hesitate to inquire further. ;-\ At least one of my clients likes to run the index by the copyeditor to make sure I haven't made any errors. Since occasionally I've transmitted errors which occurred in the text (for example, in names), I guess it gives them a second chance to catch problems in the text as well. While I try to be very careful to avoid errors in my indexes, we're all human, and it probably helps to have someone check our work! (I also have a reciprocal proofreading agreement with another indexer, which is very helpful.) Kara Pekar jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 11:45:10 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: business names I'm still trying on business names, having struck out with the last few. Does anyone recognize "Cardinal Indexing" or "Cardinal Editing Services" (or something similar) as being in use? Thanks, Kara Pekar jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 12:05:48 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nell Benton Subject: Re: business names What about "Impeccable indexing" It sounds good with your name. You could use a woodpecker for your logo and carry the alliteration further. Nell ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 16:44:58 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: David Amundson Subject: Re: Email file delivery In-Reply-To: <199807011411.KAA18984@jane.penn.com> At 10:10 AM 7/1/98 EDT, Janet Perlman wrote: >One benefit of disk submission by FedEx is that the invoice travels with the >index, and gets there much more quickly than if it were sent on by snailmail. >It basically saves a week in terms of time in the mail, which is a week in >terms of cash flow. That's a benefit I like. ------------- You could send your invoice by e-mail too; I do. David Amundson ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 11:19:42 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: global typo in page proofs In-Reply-To: <199806300412.XAA04357@mixcom.mixcom.com> >Absoutely right, but it raises an interesting question. If the editor >chooses to let the misspelling stand, how do you spell the word in the >index? :) I once found "the Hague" throughout the text, and the editor wanted to let it stand. She "graciously" allowed me to make a list for her of all the instances of it for her, if I "cared about it that much" (which I did). Shame on her! Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 09:59:50 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Horowitz Subject: Re: Courses for database indexing Catholic University offers a MS in Library Science so they may have something. Also, St. John's University in New York often gives workshops. Roberta Horowitz At 08:30 AM 7/1/98 -0400, you wrote: >Can anyone suggest courses that would be of interest to a database >indexer? I am aware of the USDA course. I am interested in classes >for continuing education or something that could lead to a degree. >I am located in the Washington, DC Metro area. >TIA, >Jena York-Jolley >yj2@cu.nih.gov > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 18:06:55 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Sutherland Subject: Re: History and theory of indexing (was: "Portraits in Cataloging and The message <199807010545.GAA26708@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> from Alan Walker contains these words: > (And will someone please remind me who said: "Those who know no history are > doomed to repeat its mistakes"?) The nearest I can find is George Santayana: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it". Hope that helps! -- Linda Sutherland linda.sutherland@zetnet.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 19:44:40 +0100 Reply-To: Karin Woodruff Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karin Woodruff Subject: Re: electronic vs. paper In-Reply-To: <899303886.2123580.2@listserv.cuny.edu> Linda wrote : > >They may be starting to catch up. I've just encountered one UK >publisher who asked for disk or email - no hard copy. > Yes, they are - and quite rapidly too. I send indexes to both Blackwell Science and OUP as e-mail appended files (with no disk or hard copy), though strangely enough it varies from editor to editor. I still submit invoices by snail mail (at editor's specific request), although I haven't figured out why an e-mailed invoice is unacceptable, it's not as if the invoice has my signature on it. A cynic might say it delays the invoice, but not the index! On the plus side : it ensures I still get some exercise walking to the postbox... Karin ---------------------- Karin Woodruff, Indexer Leicester, UK. e-mail: woodruff@bison.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 20:41:08 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: E: Mail origin cannot be determined. Comments: E: Original tag data was -> Charles Anderson Subject: Re: Charles Anderson? c.anderson.seattle@worldnet.att.net At 08:38 PM 6/28/98 -0400, you wrote: >HEY CHARLES! > >You posted me a note recently but the listserv's "parser" could not >determine your address. I would like to reply. > >Dave T. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 17:11:54 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Wilkerson Subject: CFP Chat - July Schedule - Mentoring/Web Indexing We will only post the CFP Chat Schedule once a month. If you would like to be put on our weekly mailing list to remind you of upcoming chat topics, e-mail us. July Chatroom Schedule: Date - Thursday July 2, 1998 Time - 8:00 p.m. - 9:00 p.m. Eastern Time Subject - Open Floor - Any Topic Host - Susan Wilkerson, CFP Administrator Date - Thursday July 9, 1998 Time - 8:00 p.m. - 9:00 p.m. Eastern Time Subject - Mentoring Host - Dick Evans Date - Thursday July 16, 1998 Time - 8:00 p.m. - 9:00 p.m. Eastern Time Subject - Open Floor - Any Topic Host - Susan Wilkerson, CFP Administrator Date - Friday, July 24, 1998 Time - 8:00 p.m. - 9:00 p.m. Eastern Time Subject - Web Indexing Host - Dwight Walker, WWWalker Web Development Date - Thursday July 31, 1998 Time - 8:00 p.m. - 9:00 p.m. Eastern Time Subject - Open Floor - Any Topic Host - Susan Wilkerson, CFP Administrator Future chats in the process of being scheduled: wINDEX Software - hosted by Susan Holbert from Susan Holbert Indexing Services SKY Index Software - Kamm Y. Schreiner, President of SKY Software All chats are subject to change. Please see the Calendar of Events at the CFP web site for the full updated schedule of future chats: http://members.aol.com/consortims A list of topics that are being planned and suggested topics are posted on the chatroom page at the CFP web site. If you would like to host a chat on one of these topics or a topic that would benefit the members of CFP, e-mail us at consortims@aol.com. Susan Wilkerson consortims@aol.com CFP Web Site: http://members.aol.com/consortims ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 17:17:23 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "D. Shaw" Subject: Invoicing One of my clients issues a purchase order number for each project. Purchase orders receive budget approval up front. Armed with this number, I fax the invoice from my computer, by a fax modem program, directly to the purchasing agent in their accounting department. He enters it in their system upon receipt and it goes to the editor for approval (that the work was performed) within 4 hours. I usually have a check from this client within three days, or two if I want to pick it up (they're about 18 miles away). My invoice states that my terms are "Due upon receipt." After this pleasant experience, I always request a purchase order number. Having one to reference and using e-mail or fax to submit the invoice speeds things right along. I don't even have to print out a copy of the invoice. Cheers, Deborah shawd@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 17:26:27 -0400 Reply-To: William Meisheid Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: William Meisheid Subject: Re: E-Books >I imagine my wrists would hurt after a while if I tried to read a novel with one of these... Jan, Not your eyes? This reminds me of the old Sony CD viewer that was trying to do the same thing. >So I wonder if anyone is providing indexes????? >From the page "Buttons allow you to flip back and forth between pages, annotate text, search your entire book for keywords and download new material." I would think "keywords" would be an online index, though some people confuse Full Text Search for keyword searching. ________________________________________________ William Meisheid "Thoughts still and always in progress" WUGNET/Help Authoring Forum Sysop & Microsoft MVP Certified RoboHELP Training http://www.sageline.com Sageline Publishing 410.465.2040 Fax: 410.465.1812 70713.2225@compuserve.com or wgm@sageline.com Baltimore/Washington area RoboHELP training ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 17:36:23 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: E-Books Ah, but "keywords" is not the same as indexing. True indexing involves pulling together related material under common topical headings. Those headings may not appear in the text, so searching on keywords won't reveal them. This is a distinction that more and more online providers are starting to grasp. Our favorite example here is the Lemon Law. Virginia is the only state that I know of that actually calls it that in the text of the code. Everyone else calls it something like the New Motor Vehicle Warranty Act or the Automotive Consumer Protection Act. Searching the text of the code for the words "lemon law" would not reveal anything because the words aren't there. Of course, they ARE in our indexes... thank you, thank you. :-) (Now I'm just waiting for one of you to email me that it's not in one of our indexes-- that's the way it usually goes). -- Sharon W. > -----Original Message----- > From: William Meisheid [SMTP:wgm@sageline.com] > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 1998 5:26 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: E-Books > > >I imagine my wrists would hurt after a while if I tried to read a > novel with one of these... > > Jan, > > Not your eyes? This reminds me of the old Sony CD viewer that was > trying to do the same thing. > > >So I wonder if anyone is providing indexes????? > > From the page "Buttons allow you to flip back and forth between pages, > annotate text, search your entire book for keywords and download new > material." I would think "keywords" would be an online index, though > some people confuse Full Text Search for keyword searching. > > ________________________________________________ > William Meisheid "Thoughts still and always in progress" > WUGNET/Help Authoring Forum Sysop & Microsoft MVP > Certified RoboHELP Training http://www.sageline.com > Sageline Publishing 410.465.2040 Fax: 410.465.1812 > 70713.2225@compuserve.com or wgm@sageline.com > Baltimore/Washington area RoboHELP training ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 07:55:42 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Alan Walker Subject: Re: History and theory of indexing (was: "Portraits in Cataloging and At 06:06 PM 1/07/98 +0100, Linda Sutherland wrote: >The message <199807010545.GAA26708@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> > from Alan Walker contains these words: > > >> (And will someone please remind me who said: "Those who know no history are >> doomed to repeat its mistakes"?) > > >The nearest I can find is George Santayana: "Those who cannot >remember the past are condemned to repeat it". > Thanks, Linda, and Ann Norcross, too, for finding this quote, which is the one I meant, though misremembered. I was surprised that it wasn't in either of the two books of quotations which I have on my shelves. I have now checked them again, and while they each have a number of Santayana quotes (none of which I knew), neither of them have this one, which I thought was very well known. Strange. Alan -- **************************************************************** Alan Walker, Indexer President, Australian Society of Indexers 10 Rockwall Crescent, Potts Point, NSW, Australia 2011 Tel: +61 2 9368 0174 +61 2 9368 0176 Fax: +61 2 9358 5593 Email: alan.walker@s054.aone.net.au **************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 18:31:13 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: business names Have you tried an Internet search using Alta Vista or Metacrawler? [On the other hand, perhaps I am misinterpreting your query.] Cheers, Dave T. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 15:37:10 -0700 Reply-To: dmbrown@brown-inc.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: E-Books Wright, Sharon F. wrote: > > Ah, but "keywords" is not the same as indexing. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: William Meisheid [SMTP:wgm@sageline.com] > > > > I would think "keywords" would be an online index, though > > some people confuse Full Text Search for keyword searching. In hypertext, "adding keywords" and "indexing" are equivalent, at least in their distinction from "full-text search." A hypertext document's list of keywords is analogous to a book's index. Full-text search of a hypertext document is analogous to a book's alphabetical list of every word in the book with a set of pointers to every page on which each word appears. Of course, not every set of keywords is a good index, any more than every *index* is a good index. But a good set of keywords is exactly as valuable as a good index. --David ======================= David M. Brown Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com www.brown-inc.com ======================= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 17:13:21 -0700 Reply-To: dmbrown@brown-inc.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: E-Books A respondent wrote: > > Are you talking about keywords as used in meta tags? If so, they > suffer the same shortcomings as any other keyword search: they only > find literal strings. How does any list of keywords find things > not explicitly in the text? Yes, I'm talking about keywords in META tags; but no, they don't "find literal strings" or anything else--they work exactly like index entries. For example, consider a file that contains the string "sea shell." A full-text search for "seashell" wouldn't return a pointer to that file, because "seashell" isn't in the file's body text. If you put the word "seashell" in the file's "keyword" META tag, then a _keyword_ search for "seashell" _will_ return a pointer to the file. As for limitations, keywords are exactly as good as the indexer makes them. They are not rectricted to strings in the body of the file, but to the indexer's ability to include meaningful synonyms, permutations, and related terms. Again, "keyword search" and "full-text search" are two different things. William Meisheid's original point (about people frequently confusing the two) is right on the mark. :) Hope this clarifies my previous message... --David ======================= David M. Brown Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com www.brown-inc.com ======================= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 01:10:38 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: David Amundson Subject: Re: E-Books In-Reply-To: <199807012238.SAA26928@jane.penn.com> >>Sharon F. Wright wrote: >> >> Ah, but "keywords" is not the same as indexing. >> ------------- >> >>David M. Brown wrote: >> >>But a good set of keywords is exactly as valuable as a good index. >> ------------- I have to agree with Sharon Wright. No set of keywords will match a conceptually organized index in usefulness, elegance, or any other human value except cost, even if authors supply keywords or a thesaurus is provided for all to adhere to. David Amundson ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 18:33:44 -0700 Reply-To: dmbrown@brown-inc.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: E-Books David Amundson wrote: > > No set of keywords will match a conceptually organized index in > usefulness, elegance, or any other human value except cost... Not even if the set of keywords could be translated into a hierarchical index, just like a back-of-book index but in a separate HTML file? An index is nothing more than a sorted list of keywords--some pointing directly into the document, some pointing instead to synonyms or related terms. I still think the main reason HTML keywords seem limited is that no one has looked closely enough at their full potential, yet. --David ======================= David M. Brown Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com www.brown-inc.com ======================= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 19:04:26 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J. Naomi Linzer" Subject: Re: Society of Indexers UK meetings In-Reply-To: <199807012122.OAA26690@neti.saber.net> Has anyone from the US gone to the SI-UK meetings? If so, do you recommend them for a new US indexer in the middle of the USDA course who is trying to get as much input and experience as possible? Naomi ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 19:13:33 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: BWI Subject: Reciprocal proofreading In-Reply-To: <199807011554.IAA28443@smtp1.teleport.com> Karen wrote >I...have a reciprocal proofreading agreement with another indexer... I would like to discuss exactly this topic with another indexer. My field seems to be philosophy of religion and perhaps some philosophy and history. If others are interested in discussing a reciprocal proofreading agreement, please respond to index@teleport.com If several respond, I will put us all in touch with each other. Martha Back Words Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:25:42 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Janet Russell Subject: Re: Email file delivery > You could send your invoice by e-mail too; I do. > Yes, but in my experience e-mail invoices tend to get lost. Accounts payable apparently likes a nice piece of paper to file. Janet Russell ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:41:29 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Email file delivery In a message dated 98-07-01 22:28:10 EDT, you write: << > Yes, but in my experience e-mail invoices tend to get lost. Accounts payable apparently likes a nice piece of paper to file. >> Yes. YES! Thank you! I too will NOT trust my invoice to email transmission. I have delivered indexes that were never received, and that could happen to the invoice also. When I FedEx it, I *know* it got there. Then there are no excuses about not getting it, misplacing it, etc .......... And, of course, you wouldn't find this out until you've waited the 30 days and *still* haven't gotten paid, so you are making inquiries. No thank you. Email isn't sure enough for me. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 21:21:44 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Caroline Parks Subject: Re: Email file delivery All of my current clients accept indexes as RTF files, either as email attachments or uploaded to their FTP site. However, I'm about to start an index for a new client, and because the book is being written (by 10 authors!) in LaTeX and my client wants to bypass the compositor at the index stage, he wants me to provide camera-ready copy in the form of a PostScript file! This has caused quite a little stir here in my office hideaway...thank heavens for expert assistance (you know who you are!) I'm surprised that nobody has yet mentioned the option of faxing an invoice. I can do this with all of my clients, and it not only saves me the trip to the post office and the transit time, it also gives those AP folks that nice piece of paper that they seem to need. And I always call the editor or AP person later that day or the next day to verify that they received the fax, which also serves to remind them of my existence... Caroline >In a message dated 98-07-01 22:28:10 EDT, you write: ><< > Yes, but in my experience e-mail invoices tend to get lost. Accounts >payable > apparently likes a nice piece of paper to file. >> > > >Yes. YES! Thank you! I too will NOT trust my invoice to email transmission. >I have delivered indexes that were never received, and that could happen to >the invoice also. > >When I FedEx it, I *know* it got there. Then there are no excuses about not >getting it, misplacing it, etc .......... And, of course, you wouldn't find >this out until you've waited the 30 days and *still* haven't gotten paid, so >you are making inquiries. > >No thank you. Email isn't sure enough for me. > >Janet Perlman >Southwest Indexing > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 21:17:45 -0700 Reply-To: dmbrown@brown-inc.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: E-Books A respondent wrote: > > [To make it useful] I would have to devise a complete index > then convert it to META tags. I suppose one could describe it that way, but I would certainly never go about it by actually following those steps! Besides, isn't indexing a book also "devising a complete index then converting it to a list of strings and locators"? I just don't see a significant difference. > Now we are no longer talking about META tags being the equal of > a human-created index, just META tags being another way to present > such an index. To be precise, keywords are the input, and the index is the output (rather like embedded index entries in a Word file). Just to set the record straight, I'm no fan of keyword-based search engines, which can create only a "virtual index." Users are constrained by their ability to think of the same keywords the indexer specified, because you can't see all the entries in one place. (Imagine having to ask someone in the next room to look up index entries for a book you're trying to use: "Anything about 'soccer'? No? Well, try looking under 'football' or 'sports.' Aw, forget it!") Of course, a skilled indexer improves the chances that your search string will yield a "hit" by creating a comprehensive set of entries, but I still feel keyword-based search engines fall short of the goal. I'd rather see a "back-of-book"-style index, myself. I just think there must be an easier way to produce it than what I've heard of, so far. --David ======================= David M. Brown Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com www.brown-inc.com ======================= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 19:01:11 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Subject: Re: INDEX-L Digest - 30 Jun 1998 to 1 Jul 1998 In-Reply-To: <04102775535854@domain1.bigpond.com> David M. Brown wrote: >An index is nothing more than a sorted list of keywords--some pointing >directly into the document, some pointing instead to synonyms or related >terms. I still think the main reason HTML keywords seem limited is that >no one has looked closely enough at their full potential, yet. To me 'keywords' has the implication of words drawn from a thesaurus or otherwise limited list and standardised across a whole range of documents. I would be surprised and disappointed if two Web documents on the same site about seashells had widely divergent sets of keywords, though I wouldn't feel the same way if two books about seashells in the same series had widely divergent indexes. BTW, I already have and use an electronic 'book' in the form of a Cassiopeia hand-held PC. With the help of text files downloaded from Project Gutenberg, and a 'reading' program called Bookworm, it's reduced my daily commuting burden from three library books (one to finish on the train there, one to start on the train there and finish on the way back, and one to start on the way back) to one slim paper-back sized package with which I can also write newsletters and articles when the spirit moves me. But I haven't encountered any handheld indexes yet. Jonathan =================================== Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Indexing, PC Training, Web Page Authoring http://www.users.bigpond.com/Diagonal Diagonal@bigpond.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 07:02:40 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: Reciprocal proofreading In-Reply-To: <199807020225.WAA26682@mail2.bellsouth.net> I've always thought that sounded like a good idea -- if you're in near proximity to each other. Otherwise, who has time to wait...? Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds > -----Original Message----- > From: Indexer's Discussion Group > [mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of BWI > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 1998 9:14 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Reciprocal proofreading > > > Karen wrote > >I...have a reciprocal proofreading agreement with another indexer... > > > > I would like to discuss exactly this topic with another indexer. My field > seems to be philosophy of religion and perhaps some philosophy and > history. If others are interested in discussing a reciprocal proofreading > agreement, please respond to > index@teleport.com > > If several respond, I will put us all in touch with each other. > > Martha > Back Words Indexing > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 07:05:03 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: Email file delivery In-Reply-To: <199807020227.WAA27420@mail2.bellsouth.net> I sometimes do invoicing by email -- though it's more apt to be freelance writing work than indexing or copyediting. I carry on a lot of other, miscellaneous business by email, too. But I *always* immediately print out a hard copy for my files. Maybe it's just my age.... :) Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds > -----Original Message----- > From: Indexer's Discussion Group > [mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Janet Russell > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 1998 9:26 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Email file delivery > > > > You could send your invoice by e-mail too; I do. > > > Yes, but in my experience e-mail invoices tend to get lost. > Accounts payable > apparently likes a nice piece of paper to file. > > Janet Russell > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 10:00:45 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: E-Books > -----Original Message----- > From: David M. Brown [SMTP:dmbrown@brown-inc.com] > Wright, Sharon F. wrote: > > > > Ah, but "keywords" is not the same as indexing. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: William Meisheid [SMTP:wgm@sageline.com] > > > > > > I would think "keywords" would be an online index, though > > > some people confuse Full Text Search for keyword searching. > > In hypertext, "adding keywords" and "indexing" are equivalent, at least > in their distinction from "full-text search." > > A hypertext document's list of keywords is analogous to a book's index. > Full-text search of a hypertext document is analogous to a book's > alphabetical list of every word in the book with a set of pointers to > every page on which each word appears.< > > Not to try to pick nits, but what you describe as an index I would call a concordance. An index doesn't attempt to pick out every word in the book with a reference to where it appears (or even most of them). That's the point I was trying to make. A *good* index should not refer much to individual words and terms, but to concepts and ideas that are implied but not necessarily stated. Of course, that depends heavily on the subject matter of the book, and my expertise is in a very specific area-- law-- which lends itself to the conceptual indexing concept. If the keywords concept includes words and terms that do not actually appear in the text, then I agree that it is analogous. I'm trying to think of a good example, but my caffiene-deprived brain is failing me this morning! Ok, try this: I may have a statute that says that members of a particular board are prohibited from holding elective office while they are in tenure. I have to know to put this under CONFLICTS OF INTEREST, even though that term is never mentioned, because that's the name of the legal concept that this statute describes. I'd be interested in knowing if that's what keywords encompass. -- Sharon W. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 08:39:17 -0600 Reply-To: aelser@uswest.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Art Elser Organization: U S WEST Communications Subject: Re: E-Books Sharon Wright wrote: >>Not to try to pick nits, but what you describe as an index I would call a concordance. An index doesn't attempt to pick out every word in the book with a reference to where it appears (or even most of them). That's the point I was trying to make. A *good* index should not refer much to individual words and terms, but to concepts and ideas that are implied but not necessarily stated.<< I hate to speak for someone else, but I think what David Brown was saying in his post is that a good set of keywords is exactly what a good indexer would put into a back of the book index. If the phrase "conflict of interest" isn't in the online book, but the concept is, then one of the keywords would be "conflict of interest." That term would have a pointer to the same place in the online book as would "prohibited from holding elective office while they are in tenure." A concordance is merely a listing of every place in which every word is written. A list of keywords is a list of words with links to appropriate points in the text. If, for instance, my company calls some part of our product a "frammis" and another company, one which dominates the industry calls it a "doohicky," the word "doohicky" would be one of the keywords. It would take the reader to the same place as the word "frammis." One difference, and an important difference, is that a keyword can only be linked to one place in the online book. In terms of a back of the book index, that means you can't have two or three or four locators for the same term. What it probably means is that when you first click on the term "doohicky" you would be presented with another list with subentries like "installing," "adjusting," "external specifications," "internal specifications," and "frammising." A good keyword search, because the "index" is mostly out of sight, must be done more carefully and with more thought about synonyms and user terms than a back of the book index. That's exactly why most of us are unhappy with the keyword searches we've seen. A few weeks ago, we had a discussion about the business possibilities of indexing on the web or online. I think there are many great possibilities for expanding business here. It's because a poor index may work somewhat in a book--one can scan a paper index and find a term that strikes a chord--but a poor index online is as bad a not having one. art elser ================================================================== Art Elser (303) 965-4825 aelser@uswest.com Information Developer, U S WEST There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts. Illusions, Richard Bach =================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 09:02:42 -0700 Reply-To: dmbrown@brown-inc.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: E-Books I was about to reply to Sharon Wright, when I saw this from Art Elser, who wrote: > ... I think what David Brown was saying is that a good set > of keywords is exactly what a good indexer would put into a > back of the book index. If the phrase "conflict of interest" > isn't in the online book, but the concept is, then one of the > keywords would be "conflict of interest." That is precisely my point: Keywords are not restricted to concepts and terms that appear in the text of the document, nor are they restricted to single words. It is this misperception that may have limited their effective use to date. Part the problem is the term "keywords" itself, which we use because that's what they're called in HTML and Windows help files. In both of those formats, though, keywords can be used to create quite effective hierarchical indexes. If that's uncommon, then the shortcoming isn't entirely in the mechanism. It also calls into question the imagination of the person creating the keywords. > A concordance is merely a listing of every place in which every word > is written. In hypertext, a "virtual concordance" is what you get from a full-text search engine. This has the same shortcoming as the "virtual index" you get from a keyword-based search engine: You have to think of exactly the right word or phrase to get a pointer into the document, and you can't see all those words and phrases in one place. But with keywords, at least there's a chance for a good indexer to improve the odds of success. I agree with Art that there are great possibilities for indexers to expand their businesses in this area. Competent indexers can make a real difference in the accessibility of information in hypertext documents. Thanks for the great discussion! --David ======================= David M. Brown Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com www.brown-inc.com ======================= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 11:12:59 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: e-mail delivery of indexes In-Reply-To: <199806300412.XAA04357@mixcom.mixcom.com> >USDA does not allow us to submit indexes via e-mail because of >formatting problems that occur during transmission. But, according to >several people on the list, over 90% of publishers want indexes >delivered via e-mail. Is formatting of the index not important to >publishers? I'm not familiar with the post-index publishing process so, >again, apologies if this is just showing my ignorance and inexperience. >Just wondering. > Publishers absolutely do care about formatting, so you make sure that you send the index in a way that preserves formatting. With a new client, this typically requires doing a test before turning in the finished index. After finding out what platform your client uses (Mac, Windows, or DOS) and what word processing software (MS Word, WordPerfect, etc.), you send a sample index that contains formatting and styles (e.g., some italics). Then you ask the client to let you know whether (a) the file was openable, (b) it contained gibberish (symbols at the beginning, (c) looked like a formatted index (e.g., indented subs or whatever), and (d) contained italics. If everything's a go, you later send your finished index the very same way and keep track of those parameters for that client. Anyway, that's how I do it. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 11:45:24 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rebecca Carr Subject: business names Impekkable Indexing sounds good. The woodpecker is not bad either. It would be remembered. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 09:48:28 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marjorie Hlava Subject: ASIS '99 Annual: Knowledge Creation, Organization & Use Call for Participation Knowledge: Creation, Organization and Use ASIS 1999 Annual Conference J.W. Marriott Hotel, Washington, D.C November 1-4, 1999 [Please see the complete Call for Participation at or contact asis@asis.org.] This conference will look at current (and imminent) knowledge creation, acquisition, navigation, correlation, retrieval, management and dissemination practicalities and potentialities, their implementation and impact, and the theories behind developments. We will review the processes, technologies and tools. We will also look at the appropriate or necessary operational policies, relevant legal issues (laws, legislation and the EU Directive), and international and domestic policies and regulations. The conference will feature five tracks: Knowledge Discovery, Capture and Creation Classification and Representation Information Retrieval Knowledge Dissemination Ethical, Cultural, Social and Behavioral Aspects Papers and panels which provide real life results will be favored, with formal papers being integrated into less formal panel sessions, and these into tracks. To submit a proposal, send the title and a 500 word description, and the other required information to AM99@asis.org or to the address below. Electronic submissions are strongly encouraged and should be submitted to AM99@ASIS.ORG. If electronic submission is not possible two paper copies should be sent to each address below. All proposals must be received by December 15, 1998. All technical session proposals, of whatever type, should state which track the session fits into as all will be coordinated with the tracks above. Please send your submissions to AM99@asis.org or contact the Track coordinator directly for discussion of the presentation. To contact the track coordinator please send to asis99@asis.org with the subject line indicating "contact 'track name'. The Track Coordinators are: 1) Knowledge Discovery, Capture and Creation - Craig Booher, Vic Rosenberg 2) Classification and Representation - Dave Penniman, Chuck Goldstien 3) Information Retrieval. - Matthew Koll, Peter Noerr 4) Knowledge Dissemination. - Don King, Peter Jacso 5) Ethical, Cultural, Social and Behavioral Aspects - Jose Marie Griffiths, Janice Keeler, Electronic submissions are strongly encouraged and should be submitted to AM99@asis.org. If electronic submission is not possible, two paper copies should be sent as follows: Marjorie M.K. Hlava Richard Hill, Executive Director Access Innovations American Society for Information Science P.O. Box 8640 8720 Georgia Avenue, Suite 501 Albuquerque, NM 87198-8640 Silver Spring, MD 20910 mhlava@accessinn.com rhill@asis.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 10:10:22 -0700 Reply-To: dmbrown@brown-inc.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: business names Rebecca Carr wrote: > > Impekkable Indexing sounds good. Personally, I'd stick with "Impeccable Indexing," as suggested. Sometimes a "cute" name comes back to haunt you, especially in a word-related business. Just my pint of view... --David ======================= David M. Brown Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com www.brown-inc.com ======================= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 13:26:46 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kay K. Schlembach" Subject: Re: Reciprocal proofreading Martha, Joanne Clendenen and I would be happy to help. Kay Schlembach BWI wrote: > Karen wrote > >I...have a reciprocal proofreading agreement with another indexer... > > I would like to discuss exactly this topic with another indexer. My field > seems to be philosophy of religion and perhaps some philosophy and > history. If others are interested in discussing a reciprocal proofreading > agreement, please respond to > index@teleport.com > > If several respond, I will put us all in touch with each other. > > Martha > Back Words Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 14:34:21 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "S. Greenhouse" Subject: Calling ASI members: FYI Stepping up on soapbox: Anybody checked the ASI web page recently? There is an opening on the national board caused by a member resigning! What is going on with ASI's national leadership? This opening was announced in a letter from our president posted to the ASI web site a week ago! While these letters certainly appear to pacify the membership's demand to be fully informed of the board's activities, these letters are only available to a small fraction of members. And posting, silently and unheralded, the announcement of a resignation and concurrent board opening seems to indicate a covert desire to keep the whole business secret from the very members the board should be representing. While Index-L is not the venue for the board to discuss its own business, certainly with something of this magnitude the membership should have been alerted, if only with a short notice to check the ASI page for important information regarding a change in our leadership. But even posting to Index-L is woefully insufficient. We have heard recently from members who may have email access but not Web access. These members are disenfranchised! Clearly there has to be a better avenue to notify membership of changes at the national level. Members with no Web access can have no input until National lets it be known by USPS mail what decisions have already been made. Is anyone interested in serving on the board? Right now, there is one resignation and a replacement is already lined up. Thanks should go to Sandi Schroeder for volunteering but since the opening is for the Vice President/President-elect of ASI, I feel that there needs be a call for volunteers and a choice offered to the membership. The resigning board member was voted in by the national membership, and we have the right to choose a replacement. Based on the number of recent postings to Index-L regarding fair representation, surely more members will step forward so that the entire membership can **choose** our representation. My understanding is (I am treasurer of a local chapter) that there may be more resignations coming. I think we owe it to ourselves during this period of turmoil to check the ASI web site frequently to keep ourselves informed and to talk to our local chapter representatives so that our _entire_ membership can have a voice in the workings of our professional society. Our voices need to be heard, not only as individuals, but through our **elected** representatives. And should someone we choose step down, we need to be involved in choosing their replacements. Off the soapbox. I'm assuming the membership does care and does want to be involved. With no other avenue for discussion but Index-L, let's keep each other informed. Postings with ASI in the subject line can easily be deleted. Shelley Greehouse greenhou@erols.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 14:16:42 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rosalind Lund Subject: Re: electronic vs. paper In-Reply-To: <899303882.1123425.2@listserv.cuny.edu> > >> As another UK member, I can confirm Christine Shuttleworth's point that >> many British publishers aren't really into e-mail yet - even if they have it, > >most of them prefer phone or fax. >> I have never been asked to submit an index via e-mail - disk plus hard copy >> is the universal method and has been for more or less as long as I rememb> er >> (I think the first one I did was about 10 years ago). > > >They may be starting to catch up. I've just encountered one UK >publisher who asked for disk or email - no hard copy. > I, too, am a UK member and am pleased to say that most of my work is now supplied via email. Also the really long index that I do twice a year has been sent to the publishers via email, with no hard copy or disk back up for 2/3 years now. Personally I don't mind supplying a hard disk, but really resent the time and paper used presenting hard copy. Surely it's far easier for the publishers to do a print out for themselves if they really need hard copy to look at and they can print it out as they like - double spaced or whatever is easier to read. I think we should all refuse to supply hard copies to bona fide publishers! -- Rosalind Lund 1 Arbury Road Cambridge CB4 2JB England email : rosalind@lundboox.demon.co.uk Catalogue on the Web: http://antiquarian.com/lund-theological Phone +44 (0)1223 565303 Fax +44 (0)1223 565206 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 15:21:02 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandra Topping Subject: Re: Calling ASI members: FYI Dear Shelley: I'd like to point out that posting information to the Web site is probably a first step, intended to begin disseminating the information immediately. Obviously, there are members who either do not have Internet access or do not use it on a regular basis. It is my understanding that U.S. mail is used to reach ALL members at the same time and thus make a communication "official". Please be patient -- often things happen quickly but take time to resolve. Sandy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 11:35:11 -0700 Reply-To: dmbrown@brown-inc.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: E-Books lserve@juno.com wrote: > > ... where do you find HTML keywords? > Is there a list of them somewhere? You make them up, just as you make up index entries for your database, magazine, reference, or other document. You add a "keywords" META tag in the "head" of each HTML file. The "keywords" META tag contains a list of words and phrases that you want to associate with that file. Let's say the file ExtremeSports.html is about hang gliding, and you use the term consistently, without a hyphen, throughout the file. If someone uses a full-text search engine for information on "hang-gliding" ExtremeSports.html won't be included in the search results. So, you include the term "hang-gliding" in a "keywords" META tag in ExtremeSports.html. When someone uses a keyword-based search engine to look for files about "hang-gliding," ExtremeSports.html is included in the search results. Some full-text search engines may even search "keywords" META tags, in which case they'd include ExtremeSports.html in the search results, too! --David ======================= David M. Brown Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com www.brown-inc.com ======================= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 16:15:07 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Paul Lightfoot Subject: History and theory of indexing (was: "Portraits in Cataloging and Classification") "Like Melinda Davis, I was delighted to find that the person who taught m= e most about indexing got a guernsey in "Portraits in Cataloging and Classification: Theorists, Educators, and Practitioners of the Late Twentieth Century"." I was going to ask what on earth you mean by "got a guernsey", but my Collins dictionary has come up trumps again. You must be Australian. Down= here a guernsey is a fisherman's sweater. Sue Lightfoot Cornwall ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 16:15:41 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Calling ASI members: FYI Shelley wrote: << This opening was announced in a letter from our president posted to the ASI web site a week ago! While these letters certainly appear to pacify the membership's demand to be fully informed of the board's activities, these letters are only available to a small fraction of members. >> I got an email forwarded from Lori through my chapter (it said, "Lori asked chapter leaders to send these to our members") announcing Janet's resignation and Sandi's volunteering. That seemed like an appropriate and efficient way to communicate (as long as chapter leaders called or wrote people without email). Do Mi Stauber ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 16:25:06 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Paul Lightfoot Subject: Printing problems This isn't strictly an indexing problem, but it does affect the look of m= y printed indexes, so I hope someone may be able to help. I use CINDEX, a Macintosh Performa and an HP DeskWriter printer. Indexes prepared with CINDEX look perfectly formatted onscreen but when printed o= ut in two columns the headings (main and sub) are not exactly aligned, some appearing to be indented up to half the width of a character. This happen= s regardless of which font is used and when I select bold or normal for printing. (There is no problem if draft is selected.) I get the same problem when I print anything in Word using tab indentations - then the alignment is off. However indexes in CINDEX printed in one column only co= me out looking OK. If anyone can give any advice off-list I would be very grateful. Thanks, = Sue Lightfoot SLightfoot@compuserve.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 16:48:26 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Resignation facts. S. Greenhouse wrote: << Anybody checked the ASI web page recently? There is an opening on the national board caused by a member resigning! What is going on with ASI's national leadership? >> Shelley, I am the Board member who resigned. Why the alarm? Take it from me, NOTHING is going on. I resigned from the Board because my workload was overwhelming, especially when coupled with Board responsibilities and family obligations. I guess you can say that I am suffering from success: my freelance business is doing very well, and I have a flow of work such that I had to make a difficult choice -- to forego income to allow me time for ASI activities (which require a considerable amount of time) or step down from the Board (and thus be able to carry my workload). Volunteer Board members also have lives and businesses or jobs, and are sometimes waaaay overcommitted, as I was. It was as simple as that. There is no issue with the Board. Now you've heard it from the horse's mouth. I *can* tell you that the many negative postings regarding Board decisions and Board issues under consideration (which most "average" ASI members are simply are not knowledgable about) from this listserv were a contributing factor in my decision to resign. The relentless stream of negativity toward ASI on this list demoralized me. The current Board and officers have hardly been back from conference for 6 weeks, and are already under fire. Nobody has given them half a chance to do anything constructive! Now .... what I wrote above about workload is altogether true. That was the primary reason for my resignation. But the constant public griping immediately after elections is an atmosphere of no-confidence that definitely has a negative effect on the Board. I will vouch for this! And you are right -- nobody from ASI will answer your posting to this list. I *can* and am answering your posting as a private citizen, since I am no longer on the ASI Board. That "a replacement is already lined up" is true. The ASI by-laws outline the procedure to follow if the Vice President resigns; this is the procedure that was followed in nominating Sandi Schroeder. I am told that a ballot is in the mail or will be very shortly. Should you wish the specifics, the by-laws are available to all members upon request. Just contact any Board member. You wrote further: <> To this I would answer that I wish this kind of posting never happened! If you know something, say so. If you don't wish to say it publicly, then the innuendo is malicious. I know of no other word for it. Who is resigning? Say so. Or else, let the leaders of ASI, who work very hard on your and ASI's behalf, do their jobs in peace. Now that I've got everybody's attention, one more thing, and then I'll go quietly into the night, back to work. Posting and discussing on Index-L regarding ASI activities is all well and good, but in the long run it will not effect change. The best way to influence the process is to work within the system, not from outside it. Contact the Board directly with your concerns. Write to the President. Email or call her. She will respond. I can guarantee that. Write to any other officer. You will get an answer. And .... your ideas and thoughts will have reached the parties who are doing the work and will be taken seriously. Please don't count on, or use, Index-L to get the message to ASI leadership. Take matters into your own hands and become an active member, working within ASI, instead of complaining publicly. Put your efforts into the changes you are seeking. Complaining won't do it! The Board and officers were elected to do a difficult job, which they do as volunteers. ASI is in a period of transition, and a lot of changes are needed. Believe me, ASI officers are well aware of this. But please -- give them time and space to do their jobs, and give them the vote of confidence they need. Give them a chance to do their work. It's tough enough without the "no confidence" vote they keep getting on this list! Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 15:04:48 -0600 Reply-To: aelser@uswest.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Art Elser Organization: U S WEST Communications Subject: Re: Calling ASI members: FYI Shelley Greenhouse wrote: >>Stepping up on soapbox: Anybody checked the ASI web page recently? There is an opening on the national board caused by a member resigning! What is going on with ASI's national leadership?<< >>snip<< Excuse me, but is that venom I see dripping on your keyboard? Why the vituperous tone in this posting? It seems to me that the ASI leadership is at least trying to keep the membership informed as to what's going on. If you don't have a solution to propose and you keep sending messages like this, you are part of the problem, a big part. The new board just started. Let's give those VOLUNTEERS a chance, the same chance past boards have had. If they don't respond to the members' needs, then find out wh--nicely. Let's put the soapbox away or use it to set on and wait a spell. :-) art ================================================================== Art Elser (303) 965-4825 aelser@uswest.com Information Developer, U S WEST There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts. Illusions, Richard Bach =================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 23:27:34 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Sutherland Subject: Re: E-Books I'm getting thoroughly confused - partly, I think, because I'm reading replies but for some reason haven't seen the message which is being replied to. Can someone please put me out of my misery? Until I started reading this thread, I had thought that the function of keywords in META tags was analogous to that of subject entries in a library catalogue - i.e. they were intended to help the search engine locate all documents on a specific subject. Hyperlinks, I thought, were a different kind of tag, into which you place keywords pointing to information within a single document (and therefore comparable to entries in a back-of-book index). But references to "HTML keywords" are bewildering me. Is that an umbrella term for keywords placed in either kind of tag, or something else altogether? -- Linda Sutherland linda.sutherland@zetnet.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 09:02:31 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Alan Walker Subject: Re: History and theory of indexing (was: "Portraits in Cataloging and Classification") At 04:15 PM 2/07/98 -0400, you wrote: >"Like Melinda Davis, I was delighted to find that the person who taught me >most about indexing got a guernsey in "Portraits in Cataloging and >Classification: Theorists, Educators, and Practitioners of the Late >Twentieth Century"." > >I was going to ask what on earth you mean by "got a guernsey", but my >Collins dictionary has come up trumps again. You must be Australian. Down >here a guernsey is a fisherman's sweater. > >Sue Lightfoot >Cornwall Sorry, I didn't realise I was using dialect. Down here in Australia it means a footballer's sweater (or jumper or pullover). "get a guernsey. (Austral.) be selected for a team; (fig) be successful; gain recognition; get mentioned, included, etc." (New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary) Alan -- **************************************************************** Alan Walker, Indexer President, Australian Society of Indexers 10 Rockwall Crescent, Potts Point, NSW, Australia 2011 Tel: +61 2 9368 0174 +61 2 9368 0176 Fax: +61 2 9358 5593 Email: alan.walker@s054.aone.net.au **************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 17:06:33 -0700 Reply-To: dmbrown@brown-inc.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: E-Books Linda Sutherland wrote: > > Until I started reading this thread, I had thought that the function > of keywords in META tags was analogous to that of subject entries in > a library catalogue - i.e. they were intended to help the search > engine locate all documents on a specific subject. Hyperlinks, I > thought, were a different kind of tag, into which you place keywords > pointing to information within a single document (and therefore > comparable to entries in a back-of-book index). > > But references to "HTML keywords" are bewildering me. Is that an > umbrella term for keywords placed in either kind of tag, or something > else altogether? Nope, you understand it correctly. HTML includes a special tag, called a META tag, which goes in the "head" of the file and imparts information about the file to anyone who's interested. There are lots of "kinds" of META tags, including the one we've been talking so much about recently: So, it's a META tag (but only one of many), it's a keyword list (though they aren't limited to single words), and it's HTML. They get called a lot of different things in conversation, but I think we're all talking about the same "critter." I hope that helps. --David ======================= David M. Brown Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com www.brown-inc.com ======================= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 21:42:54 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mschwilk@AOL.COM Subject: SUBSCRIBE SUSCRIBE INDEX-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 22:05:02 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rick Hurd Subject: Re: CFP Chat - July Schedule - Mentoring/Web Indexing In a message dated 01-Jul-98 4:15:31 PM Central Daylight Time, Cfpwebsite@AOL.COM writes: << We will only post the CFP Chat Schedule once a month. If you would like to be put on our weekly mailing list to remind you of upcoming chat topics, e-mail us. >> Please add me to your weekly mailing list. Thank you. Rick Hurd Rick's Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 23:46:03 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: Reciprocal proofreading Michael K. Smith wrote: > I've always thought that sounded like a good idea -- if you're in near > proximity to each other. Otherwise, who has time to wait...? With e-mail, you don't have to be in near-proximity, or even in the same time zone. You do have to have some idea of the other indexer's schedule (i.e., when they are likely to be available.) I'm in Virginia; my fellow indexer/proofreader is in New Mexico, but it works out pretty well. We don't check all of each other's indexes, but when we do, it is usually helpful. Kara Pekar jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 02:44:30 -0700 Reply-To: Elinor Lindheimer Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: Re: Resignation facts. A heartfelt thank you to Janet Perlman for her posting regarding "what's going on" in ASI. We all regret that she was unable to juggle all the parts of her busy life to continue in her post, but it's better for all that she saw that problem now, when a new person can get on board in time to deal with all the details of planning next year's conference. The ASI bylaws have procedures to deal with this situation, and every member will be informed by mail. Meanwhile, I urge everyone interested who does not have access to the ASI web site (where ASI's president, Lori Lathrop, has posted informative letters to the membership) to contact their local chapter's president or chapter relations liaison in order to keep up with the news. If you have specific concerns for the board, contact the president or a board member directly. You may be assured that, as Janet said, they are all hard-working, dedicated people trying to do the best they can to steer ASI wisely. And remember that ASI needs you. Be active in your chapter, help plan local meetings, offer yourself to help your chapter leaders with the various tasks involved in running the chapter. You will be surprised how quickly you will feel connected, both locally and globally. ASI has never been, and will never be, an organization dedicated to top-down services. No, it exists so that indexers can help each other and help the profession as a whole. ASI is us, not them. I would hope that focusing on our own actions will help us all find the joy that comes from working together for common goals. Thank you, Janet. I know the board will miss you, but we're all glad you're with us on Index-L! Elinor Lindheimer Past President, ASI elinorl@mcn.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 07:36:18 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Beverly Schane Subject: Re: CFP Chat - July Schedule - Mentoring/Web Indexing In a message dated 98-07-02 22:07:47 EDT, you write: << Please add me to your weekly mailing list. Thank you. >> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 07:55:42 -0400 Reply-To: William Meisheid Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: William Meisheid Subject: Re: Calling ASI members: FYI >And posting, silently and unheralded, the announcement of a resignation and concurrent board opening seems to indicate a covert desire to keep the whole business secret from the very members the board should be representing . . . I feel that there needs be a call for volunteers and a choice offered to the membership . . . My understanding is (I am treasurer of a local chapter) that there may be more resignations coming . . . Shelley, Though I am a relatively silent member of ASI I felt a need to respond to this post publicly, since the post itself is so public. I placed those sections of your post together, since for me they seem to elucidate most clearly your position and possible motivation. Being out of the normal loop does have some advantages, one of which is looking at things without entrenched political overtones. While it is impossible to tell solely from your post why you wanted to imply covert secrecy on the part of the board as if there were a conspiracy to put their own person in place, there appears to be a definite political agenda. That is implied by your call for volunteers to fill the vacant post. I personally do not have a copy of the by-laws, but you should at least have access as "treasurer of a local chapter". Do the by-laws even allow for what you suggested, since being in chapter government you ought to know that the process is determined by the by-laws and not what any of us "feel"? It would have been helpful for us, the readers of your post, to know if your demand is at least within the purview of the by-laws or just extra-legal posturing, driven by your own political agenda. In addition, responsible leadership, and it is expected from a member of chapter government speaking internationally on an open list about national government, would not post innuendo about other unsubstantiated rumors. Your post was neither professional nor responsible. Yes, it does get some of the information to light of day, but in a way that casts a calculated pall over the information and process. By the way, can I ask why you didn't say which chapter you were treasurer of? Just a few thoughts from the rim... ________________________________________________ William Meisheid "Thoughts still and always in progress" WUGNET/Help Authoring Forum Sysop & Microsoft MVP Certified RoboHELP Training http://www.sageline.com Sageline Publishing 410.465.1548 Fax: 410.465.1812 70713.2225@compuserve.com or wgm@sageline.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 13:36:52 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Sutherland Subject: Re: E-Books The message <199807030007.BAA15920@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> from "David M. Brown" contains these words: > > So, it's a META tag (but only one of many), it's a keyword list (though > they aren't limited to single words), and it's HTML. They get called a > lot of different things in conversation, but I think we're all talking > about the same "critter." > I hope that helps. It does, thanks, and if the term "HTML keywords" is in general use I'll learn to live with it! But - at the risk of sounding pedantic - I have to say that I still find the term confusing, because it seems to imply that the keywords themselves are part of HTML code. In fact only the META tag plus its NAME and CONTENT subsidiaries are HTML requirements. The keywords contained in the tag, as you pointed out in an earlier message, are freely selectable from ordinary language. -- Linda Sutherland linda.sutherland@zetnet.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 08:57:36 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Wilkerson Subject: Re: CFP Chat - July Schedule - Mentoring/Web Indexing If anyone wants me to add them to the chat reminder list or have questions about CFP, pleeeese don't forget to change the "Send To" block to: consortims@aol.com when replying rather than replying to the list.....:o) Susan Wilkerson consortims@aol.com http://members.aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 09:46:52 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: tobiah r waldron Subject: Re: note cards versus software What is the best way to send an index through email? I have windex, Word, Works, and Juno email. On Tue, 30 Jun 1998 11:58:48 -0400 Susan Holbert writes: >>I'd like to know what you all think the pros and cons of indexing >using >>software versus the index card approach are. > >For me, the biggest advantage of using indexing software is being able >to >see the entries in page-number order. I do high-end indexing and >always >proofread my page-order index against the marked proof pages. I know >that >not all indexers do this, but I add many improvements to the index at >this >stage. > >Of course, I use wINDEX. > >Regards, >Susan >Susan Holbert --- Indexing training videos --- 781-893-0514 > "Basic Skills" & "Manuals and Online Help" > http://www.abbington.com/holbert > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 09:46:51 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: tobiah r waldron Subject: Re: e-mail delivery of indexes How does one go about formatting a txt file to RTF? Thank you. On Mon, 29 Jun 1998 21:10:38 -0700 Sonsie writes: >At 06:46 PM 6/29/1998 -0400, Christine McCluskey wrote: > >>USDA does not allow us to submit indexes via e-mail because of >>formatting problems that occur during transmission. But, according >to >>several people on the list, over 90% of publishers want indexes >>delivered via e-mail. Is formatting of the index not important to >>publishers? I'm not familiar with the post-index publishing process >so, >>again, apologies if this is just showing my ignorance and >inexperience. >>Just wondering. > >Christine, I've been using .RTF format to deliver indexes >electronically for >several years now, and have never had a problem with formatting. Bold, >italic, indents, etc., stay nicely in place. I've never been expected >to >turn in camera-ready pages, so I don't know what happens to typefaces, >but >that should not really pose a problem. If the recipient doesn't have >whatever typeface you've selected, he or she can change it with a few >simple >commands in his or her word processing program. > >Are there other facets of formatting that have caused trouble for the >USDA >during electronic transfers? I'm interested in what their experience >has >been, since mine has been so trouble-free. > > =Sonsie= > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 10:08:13 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Reciprocal proofreading In-Reply-To: <199807030358.XAA21115@camel23.mindspring.com> At 11:46 PM 7/2/98 -0400, you wrote: >Michael K. Smith wrote: >> I've always thought that sounded like a good idea -- if you're in near >> proximity to each other. Otherwise, who has time to wait...? > > >With e-mail, you don't have to be in near-proximity, or even in the same >time zone. How do you get the hardcopy proofs to the proofreader? I know that we as indexers do a lot of business electronically and I know that we stress this point to our clients, but proofreading requires that the proofreader have the materials to proofread against, and I can't send a thousand pages in a 3-ring binder via e-mail. I have done some such subcontracting and conducted one long-term apprenticeship, and geographic proximity was critical in all cases. Dick You do have to have some idea of the other indexer's schedule >(i.e., when they are likely to be available.) I'm in Virginia; my fellow >indexer/proofreader is in New Mexico, but it works out pretty well. We >don't check all of each other's indexes, but when we do, it is usually >helpful. > >Kara Pekar >jkpekar@crosslink.net > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 10:18:49 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "S. Greenhouse" Subject: In my own defense While I understand everyone's reaction to >innuendo about other unsubstantiated rumors so in my own defense . . . I learned of Enid Zafran's resignation from ASI's Board of Directors several weeks ago (at a local chapter meeting). I checked the ASI web page, and she isn't listed as a member of that board, but she is the Publications committee chair. I was concerned that I had misunderstood. I did check my facts carefully (before posting to Index-L yesterday) and was told Enid made her resignation official last week. It's not my intention to spread gossip or rumors, and I was hoping this latest resignation from the Board would also be announced on the ASI web page. Shelley Greenhouse greenhou@erols.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 10:58:55 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "D. Shaw" Subject: Re: e-mail delivery of indexes In-Reply-To: <199807031347.JAA03912@camel16.mindspring.com> At 09:46 AM 03-07-98 EDT, you wrote: >What is the best way to send an index through email? I have windex, Word, Works, and Juno email. >How does one go about formatting a txt file to RTF? You have to have use a full-service internet provider to send attached files, or you may be able to send them directly by dialing the publisher's modem. Isn't Juno e-mail only? MindSpring has a five-hour account for about $7. Shop around. In Word * Click on _F_ile Save _A_s... * In the dialogue box - change the name in File _n_ame: to indicate that this is the RTF version of the file; note the full name and path of the new file - in Save as _t_ype:, click on the arrow and select Rich Text Format click on _S_ave In Eudora Light * create your message * before you Queue or Send it, attach the file - click on _M_essage, Attac_h_ File OR hold down Ctrl and type h OR click on the icon with the yellow page and red paper clip - in the Attach File dialogue box, enter the name and path of the file as if you were opening it - say yes, however it lets you; in Windows 95, it's _O_pen; in Windows 3.1, as I recall, it was _A_ttach - if successful, the name of the file will appear in your message header next to *Attached:*; make sure this is the right file - if it's not the right file, just delete the name from the header * Queue or Send the message Works should work just like Word. Cheers, Deborah shawd@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 09:39:39 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: BWI Subject: Re: Reciprocal proofreading In-Reply-To: <199807031408.HAA09148@smtp2.teleport.com> Dick pointed out: >How do you get the hardcopy proofs to the proofreader? >I know that we as indexers do a lot of business electronically and I know >that we stress this point to our clients, but proofreading requires that >the proofreader have the materials to proofread against, and I can't send a >thousand pages in a 3-ring binder via e-mail. I have done some such >subcontracting and conducted one long-term apprenticeship, and geographic >proximity was critical in all cases. You caught me - Dick. I was using the term "proofreading" very loosely. Rather than send the book to compare (proof) the index against, I was considering sending only the index and having someone else look at the spelling, punctuation, scattered information, sub-entry terminology and headnote formulation, classification problems, consistency, prepositions vs ambiguity, etc. I figure I would benefit in having someone else's suggestions (whether I use them or not). I would benefit as much from seeing someone else's index and learning how and why they do it their way. Some of the items that we will be discussing include: * timing (reservations, committment, deadlines) * whether to do query sheets or to return hand-marked suggestions right on the original index by fax * whether the 7-8 who responded to me off-list wish to be a group available to the others in the group, or wish to matchmake themselves into pairs * the level of editing that already needs to be done before sending an index to fellow proofreaders Anyone else want "in"? I figure to discuss this off-list so's not to bore those who aren't interested. Martha Back Words Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 14:23:35 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: EMickiT@AOL.COM Subject: New way to send electronic files: UPS For those of you that have problems with clients receiving files as e-mail attachments, I copied a bit of the UPS web site. I have not tried this, but it sounds interesting. I don't know the cost. Erin (Micki) Taylor WELCOME TO THE UPS DOCUMENT EXCHANGE--your first, best step to feeling confident about doing business on the Internet today! Reinventing Your Business Practices with Hassle-Free E-Commerce Solutions UPS is proud to introduce the UPS Document Exchange. Here, you'll find services that will help you to reinvent your current business practices so that you'll feel comfortable sending and receiving critical business documents and other information--from video to audio to text--via the Internet. UPS OnLine Courier Brings Usable Technology to Your Fingertips to Enhance Your Business Any digital file can be sent using UPS OnLine Courier right from your desktop or from the Web. This includes presentations, business reports, graphics, multimedia files--even software applications and executables. Plus, UPS OnLine Courier accommodates multiple files per delivery and multiple recipients. http://www.exchange.ups.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 11:47:09 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: New way to send electronic files: UPS In-Reply-To: <199807031829.LAA19002@powergrid.electriciti.com> I apologize to other subscribers, but the system at Binghampton refused to give me an alternative. I subscribed to the list many years ago from my original ISP, which has changed its address. The automated software will not accept an unsubscribe message from me. I need to unsubscribe to index-l for this address. Charlotte, can you do this for me? I intend to re-subscribe though my new ISP. Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 11:50:35 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: AAaaaargh! Unsubscribing In-Reply-To: <199807031829.LAA19002@powergrid.electriciti.com> I ALSO intended to change the subject of the previous message. I apologize to other subscribers, but the system at Binghampton refused to give me an alternative. I subscribed to the list many years ago from my original ISP, which has changed its address. The automated software will not accept an unsubscribe message from me. I need to unsubscribe to index-l for this address. Charlotte, can you do this for me? I intend to re-subscribe though my new ISP. Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 20:45:11 +0000 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Re: electronic vs. paper In-Reply-To: With regard to hard copy, is it not a recognised problem that, in editing, errors are spotted on hard copy when they escape notice on the screen? Another point is that authors may prefer to review indexes on hard copy rather than on a screen. I index medical books, and if you want to find traditional attitudes, look at the medical profession! Regards _John Sampson_ ------------------------------------------------- John R. Sampson jsampson@indexes.u-net.com (for certified PGP public key search for this address on World Wide Web at http://www.Four11.com/) ------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 14:48:55 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Resignation facts In-Reply-To: <199807030410.XAA27293@mixcom.mixcom.com> >Posting and discussing on Index-L >regarding ASI activities is all well and good, but in the long run it will not >effect change. The best way to influence the process is to work within the >system, not from outside it. Contact the Board directly with your concerns. >Write to the President. Email or call her. She will respond. I can >guarantee that. Write to any other officer. You will get an answer. And >.... your ideas and thoughts will have reached the parties who are doing the >work and will be taken seriously. Please don't count on, or use, Index-L to >get the message to ASI leadership. Take matters into your own hands and >become an active member, working within ASI, instead of complaining publicly. >Put your efforts into the changes you are seeking. Complaining won't do it! Janet, I'm am so sorry to see you leave the Board. OTOH, I'm glad business is booming for you. I'd just like to respond to your remarks above: often (especially for freelancers who are isolated) the first step--even before taking an issue to the Board--is discussing it with colleagues. Airing the things we see as problems can help us clarify them, come up with possible solutions, find out whether others feel as we do, and so on. We are then in a much better position to present something coherent to the Board, should we choose to do so. I think using Index-L to discuss the issues is legitimate, for those of us who need a certain amount of discussion before taking action, and I don't see this discussion as working outside the system at all. Although Index-L is not an arm of ASI, many of the subsribers are ASI members, and this is a convenient place for us to reach each other. Public "complaining" is vital to a democratic society (talk about a soapbox!). Whenever I hear suggestions--and I know you're not saying this, Janet--that people shouldn't talk among themselves but take their complaints directly to management, I'm reminded of bosses I've had who try to tell employees they should not discuss salaries with their co-workers. I'm saddened to hear that discussion on this list contributed to Janet's decision to resign. I wish there were some way around that sort of effect, short of interfering with people's rights/needs to say speak their mind. So I will just close by reminding y'all that the folks in ASI who make decisions on our behalf are people just like the rest of us. They work very hard, they try to do what's right, and they have feelings, for Pete's sake! The ASI Board is not the CIA and doesn't engage in covert operations. (Keep in mind that ASI by-laws do give the Board certain powers to make decisions on our behalf, without polling the membership or holding an election, and if you don't like that about the organization, there are protocols for changing the by-laws.) The Board members are good people--very good people. Get to know them. Have a great Fourth of July everybody! Cheers, Carol ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 17:53:33 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: ASI Discussion on list Carol, Thank you for your kind words about the ASI Board. Be assured, it is appreciated. Re: Discussion on the list. I agree with you -- sometimes it is necessary to put something out there and go on an info gathering expedition, collecting facts, comparing notes, etc. That's the virtual water-cooler. I have no objection to this. It is all valid interchange, and I wouldn't want it to stop. What *is* a problem, though, is when it gets beyond a certain level of meanness, when people begin to make assumptions about why the ASI Board acted as it did, think they can second guess the Board, and question every move of the Board with an attitude of "they don't know diddly about how to run an organization". When it turns ugly, in other words. When a gripe is that bad, when something looks that bad to someone, then I think it behooves them to go into the system and get their concerns to a Board member and try to correct the situation or get factual answers. What I'm trying to say is that strident shrieking, dripping venom, or accusations on Index-L are out of place if you're trying to effect change in ASI. I guess postings of that nature are not out of place if somebody is trying to air their nastiest feelings about ASI but has no interest in trying to change the situation. It's a free country, and a free list, as long as good taste is maintained. Anybody can post anything. I just hope that the tenor of discussion stays constructive, that's all. No intent here to ask or imply that Index-L isn't/shouldn't be used for discussion of ASI matters. Just be aware that it will be simply that -- discussion. From my knowledge of the Board I can tell you that it is not a problem solving venue for ASI. I hope this clarifies what I was trying to say. Have a good holiday, all! Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 20:22:17 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: ASI Web Site All -- There is a new addition on the "Letters from ASI's President" page on the ASI Web Site. Happy indexing .... Lori *********************************************************************** Lori Lathrop ---------->INTERNET:76620.456@compuserve.com President - 1998-1999, American Society of Indexers Lathrop Media Services, 7308-C East Independence Blvd., #316 Charlotte, NC 28227 / Phone: 704-531-0021 URL - http://idt.net/~lathro19 (note: that's a "nineteen" at the end) *********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 22:35:01 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Deason Subject: Text books Do any of you index textbooks? Are textbooks indexed by freelancers? Who does the indexing for foreign language textbooks? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 10:39:40 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: Reciprocal proofreading Dick Evans wrote: > How do you get the hardcopy proofs to the proofreader? > > I know that we as indexers do a lot of business electronically and I know > that we stress this point to our clients, but proofreading requires that > the proofreader have the materials to proofread against, and I can't send a > thousand pages in a 3-ring binder via e-mail. I have done some such > subcontracting and conducted one long-term apprenticeship, and geographic > proximity was critical in all cases. Perhaps "proofreading" is not, in the strictest sense, the correct term. Nonetheless, it is possible to send an electronic file to a fellow indexer to check for spelling errors, page number duplications, etc. (I wouldn't call this "copyediting," since we don't make changes to one another's work.) I should stress that it is rare for us to find errors in each other's work, since we check our own work first; the reciprocal error-checking serves mostly as a reassurance. A fresh pair of eyes never hurts! Kara Pekar jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 09:32:35 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Margie Towery Subject: E-mail discussions (general) Thanks to both Carol and Janet for their considered comments on discussions on this list. I, too, think that it is critical to have this forum where we can openly discuss matters of concern, whether regarding a professional organization or indexing in general. I do, however, have grave concerns about how some people start and/or react to those discussions. Earlier today I read a post to another list in which the person who posted the message felt he had to say, several times, something to the effect of "please don't flame me for this, but I think this needs some discussion. . . ." It is sad to me that he had to say that--but civility seems to be more and more rare in e-mail exchanges. In *The Argument Culture,* Deborah Tannen discusses the vicious, destructive uses of e-mail and notes that people tend to "fire off" messages/responses with little thinking, far less than they might in a face-to-face chat or even on the phone. I think it behooves us to think of that tendency in our culture--and in ourselves (and I include myself in this!). Before sending a message, I try to ask myself, would I say that to the person if he/she were standing in front of me with 20 witnesses to the conversation? I also think it's sad that while this *is* an open, free forum, there are many list members who are afraid to post to this list because they may be flamed or made to look silly. How can we make this a truly open atmosphere in which *all* individuals may raise appropriate issues? I think civility is a key here. Are we not all on index-l because we care about indexing issues?! Margie Towery Towery Indexing Service ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 14:14:22 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: David Amundson Subject: civility I think this list is, overall, exhibiting the sort of self-correction th at one would expect. The process is really messy, but it gets the job done in the end: everybody gets to speak, useful information is exchanged, and people with a common interest can all communicate easily with others who share that interest and with specific persons within the larger group. Intense personal involvement can be painful, but I don't think it can be avoided completely. The best we can do, I think, is to recommend civility frequently and to expect our recommendations to be disregarded and misunderstood by those we think need them the most. (While those who we think need them most think precisely the same of us.) Plato said that democracy "is a charming form of government, full of variety and disorder, and dispensing a sort of equality to equals and unequals alike." Sort of like internet chat groups. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 11:27:29 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Aganita Varkentine Subject: Re: CFP Chat - July Schedule - Mentoring/Web Indexing ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDA73F.C2B71AC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please add me to your reminder list. Thanks a lot. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Wilkerson [SMTP:Cfpwebsite@AOL.COM] Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 1998 2:12 PM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: CFP Chat - July Schedule - Mentoring/Web Indexing We will only post the CFP Chat Schedule once a month. If you would like to be put on our weekly mailing list to remind you of upcoming chat topics, e-mail us. July Chatroom Schedule: Date - Thursday July 2, 1998 Time - 8:00 p.m. - 9:00 p.m. Eastern Time Subject - Open Floor - Any Topic Host - Susan Wilkerson, CFP Administrator Date - Thursday July 9, 1998 Time - 8:00 p.m. - 9:00 p.m. Eastern Time Subject - Mentoring Host - Dick Evans Date - Thursday July 16, 1998 Time - 8:00 p.m. - 9:00 p.m. Eastern Time Subject - Open Floor - Any Topic Host - Susan Wilkerson, CFP Administrator Date - Friday, July 24, 1998 Time - 8:00 p.m. - 9:00 p.m. Eastern Time Subject - Web Indexing Host - Dwight Walker, WWWalker Web Development Date - Thursday July 31, 1998 Time - 8:00 p.m. - 9:00 p.m. Eastern Time Subject - Open Floor - Any Topic Host - Susan Wilkerson, CFP Administrator Future chats in the process of being scheduled: wINDEX Software - hosted by Susan Holbert from Susan Holbert Indexing Services SKY Index Software - Kamm Y. Schreiner, President of SKY Software All chats are subject to change. Please see the Calendar of Events at the CFP web site for the full updated schedule of future chats: http://members.aol.com/consortims A list of topics that are being planned and suggested topics are posted on the chatroom page at the CFP web site. If you would like to host a chat on one of these topics or a topic that would benefit the members of CFP, e-mail us at consortims@aol.com. 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Does anyone know what is *proper* business etiquette regarding first contact to a publisher? I have always felt it is inappropriate to contact someone in business by E-mail without first contacting them by snail mail or phone. Although, I have forwarded a copy to E-mail when a hardcopy was in the mail. (I delete junk E-mail and wouldn't want to end up in that category.) What is the accepted or preferred course of action? How many of you send a brochure about indexing and the services you offer? And do you include your resume as a follow-up? I have taken the USDA course and purchased the appropriate indexing tools. Now I would like to do some aggressive marketing without crossing the rules of etiquette. Thanks in advance!!!!! Annette Boehmer BooksEnd@aol.com website coming soon............. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 15:28:32 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Macrex@AOL.COM Subject: Re: notecards versus software In a message dated 98-07-03 09:54:52 EDT, Tobiah Waldron wrote: << What is the best way to send an index through email? I have windex, Word, Works, and Juno email >> First, you should know that Juno does not allow messages larger than 64K. This is is too small for most indexes. It is also my understanding that there is no option for attaching anything to a Juno e-mail so the index would have to be embedded into the body of the message. Keep in mind that an RTF file is a TEXT file with character combination codes which are converted to word processor codes when translated by an RTF converter. Because of this, RTF files are frequently damaged when transmitted via the Internet. When attaching an index to e-mail, it is usually best to use some form of compression (ZIP, SIT, LZH, etc.) both to make the transmission smaller and to protect it from scrambling as it makes its way through the network of computers and protocols which comprise the Internet. Many e-mail programs are designed to automatically decompress the file upon receipt but you should discuss the compression format with the recipient to be sure you use a format which can be extracted when received. For those with AOL sending to another AOL user, the ZIP format is the best choice (or use the new AOL 4.0 which will do the ZIPping for you). Utilities I recommend include either WinZip (Windows xx users), PKZIP (for DOS users) or Stuffit (for Macintosh users) and a MIME encoder/decoder such as MPACK. With these tools in hand (on both ends) and presuming an e-mail provider which supports the attachment of large files, transmission of the index by e-mail becomes much easier and vastly more reliable. I strongly recommend a test transmission to the editor/publisher well in advance of the due date. Remember, most editors/publishers have as little experience at receiving e-mail attachments as you may have at sending the attachments. Keep in mind that the technology is constantly changing -- what worked six months ago may not work today. Additionally, it is important to note that traffic on the Internet is greater than the busiest highway system during the worst commute period; not all transmissions reach their destinations in a timely manner; some will experience a fender-bender and never reach their destination. Furthermore, unlike Express Mail, Fed/Ex, etc. the Internet has no tracking system for locating lost bytes so be sure to check that the file is actually received. If anyone would like some off-line assistance or practice sending e-mail attachments, I am usually available to help out (regardless of your choice of software or operating system). Gale Rhoades Macrex Support Office, North America ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 16:18:12 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: INFO: [fwd] Help Developer's Tools Some of the listmembers, as I recall, have Website interests; I also recall seeing an occasional discussion about Help file development. I'm still only a WANNABE but I find this stuff interesting. Cheers, Dave T. -------- Forwarded Message -------- ***** FOREFRONT FLASH! JULY, 1998 ***** A Monthly Newsletter for Help Developers. In this issue: PRODUCT NEWS ForeFront Announces ForeHelp 3 and ForeHelp Premier 98 Three New Tools Make Life Easier for Help Authors Special Offer on Competitive Upgrades UPCOMING EVENTS Help Technology Update Conference ForeHelp Training This newsletter is sent only to those who have subscribed to the ForeFront Flash! on our web site. To unsubscribe, reply to this email with "unsubscribe" in the subject field. ============================ PRODUCT NEWS ============================ ForeFront Announces ForeHelp 3 and ForeHelp Premier 98 ForeFront is happy to announce ForeHelp 3 and ForeHelp Premier 98. ForeHelp 3 brings over 100 new project management, shortcut and special editing features to ForeHelp. The new ForeHelp Premier 98 suite includes ForeHelp 3, ForeHTML Pro, ForeVB, ActiveX for Help, Help Buttons, Help Browser, plus three brand new tools: Index Expert, QuickContext, and QuickFix. Highlights of the new ForeHelp 3: * The new Related Topics Wizard makes it easy to create See Also buttons. Forget Alinks and Klinks--the Related Topics Wizard does it all, and you can place See Also buttons on multiple topics at once. * The Graphics Manager lists all project graphics and their usage, and lets you globally edit project graphics. * The Topic Navigator displays your topic list in the order YOU want, and lets you conveniently drag topics from the list into the edit window. * All new Reporter creates 20 reports which you can customize to report on exactly the fields you want. You can also sort and export your reports. * Topic To Do Lists and Status help you manage your project development. * Conditional Content lets you flag any topic or topic content to be displayed and built only under specified conditions, such as WinHelp 95 only, or Review Copy only. * There's more timesaving and troubleshooting features throughout ForeHelp 3 in the Contents Editor, Keyword Editor, and Navigator--plus there's automatic backups, topic templates, a paste palette, and much more! ForeHelp 3 is $395. ForeHelp 2.9x users can upgrade for $149. For more information and to download evaluation copies of the software, visit our web site at http://www.ff.com. Three New Tools Make Life Easier for Help Authors The ForeHelp Premier 98 suite contains three brand new tools you won't want to do without! Index Expert helps you create thorough indexes for your help projects by suggesting keywords, searching your project for topics containing keywords (advanced contextual search engine uses synonyms, flexible word ordering, and word variations in searching), and adding keywords to groups of topics at one time. QuickContext creates and links up context-sensitive help for your software applications. Even when changes are made to your software application, QuickContext informs you where changes occur. The most advanced tool for creating context-sensitive help! QuickFix troubleshoots context-sensitive help on the fly. While your application is running, QuickFix captures the help file name, topic name, and context number being called. Because QuickFix is integrated with ForeHelp 3, you can immediately redirect links or create new help topics where they are missing. These new tools come only with the ForeHelp Premier 98 suite. ForeHelp Premier 98 is $699. ForeHelp 2.9X users can upgrade to ForeHelp Premier 98 for $399. Special Offer on Competitive Upgrades ForeFront is offering special pricing on competitive upgrades to the ForeHelp Premier 98 suite for a limited time. Through September, users of qualified competing help authoring tools can upgrade for $399 (normally $699). Even if you're standardized on another help authoring system, this is a great opportunity to add valuable tools such as Index Expert, QuickFix, Reporter and QuickContext to your help authoring arsenal--and don't forget that ForeHelp seamlessly interchanges help projects with other authoring tools. ============================ UPCOMING EVENTS ============================ Help Technology Update Conference SOLUTIONS and WinWriters are once again teaming up to present the 2nd Annual Help Technology Update Conference, to be held at the Cambridge Marriott in Cambridge, Massachusetts August 31-September 1. Contact SOLUTIONS at conference@sol-sems.com or call 800-448-4230. ForeHelp Training Using ForeHelp and Advanced ForeHelp Tips & Tricks will be conducted by PUBSNET September 28-30 in Dallas and October 5-8 and December 7-9 in Boston. Contact PUBSNET at 978-649-8555 or http://www.pubsnet.com. We hope you found this newsletter informative. Tell us what you'd like to see covered in future ForeFront Flash! issues. Send email to flash@ff.com. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 16:23:31 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: Printer Problem THIS MESSAGE WAS REJECTED BY COMPUSERVE FOR INCORRECT ADDRESS AND SUE LIGHTFOOT IS NOT LISTED IN THEIR MEMBER'S LIST. Hello, Sue-- While I can't fix your problem, I can regale you with a few puzzles of my own; they may give you some ideas. Someone should write a book. Calling H-P Tech support may be one avenue: even though I am an HP "afficianado" my -- admittedly limited -- experience with tech help has been disappointing. My shiny new 722C printer would not even INSTALL its software on my bigger, and faster, machine, but DID install on another system using the same OS [Win 3.11]. After an hour on the phone sweating and swearing with a knowledgeable technician, he finally admitted failure saying, "This CAN'T be happening but it IS!" He suggested calling Microsoft [?] tech support and ask for a programmer [fat chance]. Try another printer. Try another computer. Perhaps a local service agency has the same software and you could use THEIR printer. One document that I wrote using WordPerfect 6.0 [?] for Windows looked perfectly fine on the screen, but when printed out showed similar offsetting artifacts that you mention; this was clumsily corrected by inserting offsets in the opposite direction so the text looked sloppy on the screen but printed OK. Unfortunately this only worked on _MY_ system. When I later ran the same document on a friend's printer a completely different set of offsets occurred, in the same location but in differing degrees. Without finding this document -- my resume, incidentally -- and looking at the coding I recall that these glitches DID occur around tabbed indents rather than "spaced" indents. Here is one for YOU: WordPerfect seems to be inhabited by gremlins. I frequently compose documents on the machine where I live [a hotel room] and proof and print them at my shop [where my printers live]. My first proof of a recent piece, text was typeset in Arial, had the font change in the middle of a paragraph and thereafter from Arial to some oddball display font! The machine would NOT reset the mangled section when I tried to do so; in fact the info window said that it was ALREADY in Arial! I "solved" the problem by resetting the whole damn thing in Times New Roman. Someone should write a book, as I said. Have a safe 4th, Dave T. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 19:39:09 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah Smith Subject: Re: Marketing to E-mail In-Reply-To: <199807041909.AA019009398@mailjay.creighton.edu> On Sat, 4 Jul 1998, Annette Boehmer wrote: > Does anyone know what is *proper* business etiquette regarding first contact > to a > publisher? I have always felt it is inappropriate to contact someone in > business by E-mail without first contacting them by snail mail or phone. [snip] > What is > the accepted or preferred course of action? How many of you send a brochure > about indexing and the services you offer? And do you include your resume as > a follow-up? Annette, Maybe it's just me, but I would not EVER make a first contact by e-mail. Like you said, it's all too much like the "junk e-mail" that we all know and hate (and delete). Besides, if you do a mass-mailing, you'll be guilty of SPAMMING! Agghhhh!! I always make my first contact by telephone to find out if the publisher even uses freelancers. If they do, they give me a contact person's name. Then I send that person a packet containing my resume, list of works recently indexed, rate sheet, sample index (or a few pages thereof), and a cover letter, all clipped together with a business card. My cover letter is addressed to the contact person, and I always mention the initial phone contact (as in, "As discussed with you [or sometimes it's with "your office"] on [date], I am enclosing..." Often I get mail back from them, but not always. If I do get mail, it usually says something to the effect of "We don't need anyone right now, but we'll keep your resume on file." Sometimes they really mean this; I just finished an index for a company that contacted me TWO YEARS after my initial mailing! My e-mail address is on my letterhead and my business card, along with my address and phone number, so sometimes they respond by e-mail, either to give me the "not right now" message or to offer a job. The jobs also come by phone. Hope this helps! -- Sarah Allen Smith ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 00:11:39 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marlene London Subject: ARABIC NAMES Help! Index due Monday! Anyone know the complete names of Emir Kalifa of Bahrain, Prince Sultan (Saudi defense minister), Prince Saud (Saudi foreign minister)? Thanks to Bob Horne, I now know all about the Helsinki accords. Marlene London Profindex@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 03:14:02 +0300 Reply-To: kharashi@kacst.edu.sa Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ibrahim Al-Kharashi Subject: Re: ARABIC NAMES Here are the full names Emir Kalifa of Bahrain: Esa (The Arabic name of Jesus the we pronounce it) Bin Salman AlKhalifah Prince Sultan: Sultan Bin Abdulaziz Bin Saud Prince Saud: Saud Bin Faisal Bin Abdulaziz Marlene London wrote: > > Help! Index due Monday! > > Anyone know the complete names of Emir Kalifa of Bahrain, Prince Sultan > (Saudi defense minister), Prince Saud (Saudi foreign minister)? > > Thanks to Bob Horne, I now know all about the Helsinki accords. > > Marlene London > Profindex@worldnet.att.net -- Regards, Ibrahim A. Al-Kharashi Computer and Electronics Research Institute (CERI) King Abdulaziz City for Scienece and Technology (KACST) P. O. Box 6086, Riyadh 11442 Phone: 481-3273 Fax: 481-3274 e-mail: kharashi@kacst.edu.sa ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 01:58:02 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Marketing to E-mail In-Reply-To: <199807050408.XAA06741@mixcom.mixcom.com> Hi,Annette. How are you doing since Seattle? >Does anyone know what is *proper* business etiquette regarding first contact >to a >publisher? I have always felt it is inappropriate to contact someone in >business by E-mail without first contacting them by snail mail or phone. >Although, I have forwarded a copy to E-mail when a hardcopy was in the mail. >(I delete junk E-mail and wouldn't want to end up in that category.) What is >the accepted or preferred course of action? How many of you send a brochure >about indexing and the services you offer? And do you include your resume as >a follow-up? I have taken the USDA course and purchased the appropriate >indexing tools. Now I would like to do some aggressive marketing without >crossing the rules of etiquette. Thanks in advance!!!!! I tend to treat e-mail as just another form of mail. So if it isn't junk mail to send an unsolicited letter to a publisher via snail mail, then it isn't junk mail to send e-mail, IMO. What is junk mail, anyway? My brother used to say that a weed is any plant that's growing where you don't want it. Junk mail is sorta like that--it's any mail you don't want (except sometimes you do) and didn't ask for. If you target a type of business (e.g., publishing house) that typically uses indexes, your letter (regardless of which way it's delivered) *might* be construed as junk mail, but it's unlikely to be viewed as an outrage. There's junk mail, and there's JUNK mail, like when I get mail from . . . no, I dare not say. So I say, go for it! My best advice about marketing by e-mail is to use the same level of formality that you would in a traditional business letter (as opposed to the typical water-cooler informality of Net lists). Also, a word of caution: many lists (especially those hosted by universities) have rules against marketing, so you have to be careful if you're going to post some sort of marketing thing to a list (read the host's rules first). If you find yourself participating on a list you'd like to market to but can't (because it's prohibited), you can still indicate what you do in your sig line. As for my own practices, I have marketed to publishers on-line, but only in response to postings I've seen from them (like job openings). Otherwise, I've always relied on snail mail, because I do like to send my brochure, which I can't do via e-mail. These days, I usually send a brochure, list of books I've indexed, and a cover letter, with an offer to send additional materials on request (complete resume, samples, references). However, if I were a new indexer, I'd send cover letter, resume, and perhaps a sample or two (and brochure if I had one). Congrats on completing the USDA course, and good luck with your marketing! Let us know how you do. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 10:36:25 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Manley Subject: Cookbook Dictionary I am a newbie. I thought cookbooks would be the easiest to start out with but I am beginning to wonder. Does anyone know if there is a cookbook dictionary that would have definitions and terminologies that would answer questions such as: What is a side dish? Webster's dictionary says that a side dish is: a food served separately along with the main course. So what is the main course (it doesn't say) is it the main dish. Is Webster saying that side dishes are substance dishes like potatoes and greens or are they things like pickles, celery, onions etc. that go along side the main course. Does the main course include the usually two substantial veggies like potatoes and greens etc. If side dishes are the vegetables like potatoes and greens what is the pickles, sliced onions, sliced tomatoes etc. that are served with the meal...are they accompaniments? and if you don't know of such a book does anyone know the answer to the above questions. Susan ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 11:38:38 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Annette Boehmer Subject: Re: Marketing to E-mail I should have been more specific about what I truly was looking for. I was given an E-mail address by a friend of a publisher who said, "Just E-mail him." I wasn t actually going to do a mass E-mailing, more on the order of a mass *snail-mailing* (such a word?) of a service brochure. Now, I realize phone is still the best public relations! I like your ideas about phone contact and your work experience packet. I am so green, I needed reassuring. I managed 2 Travel Agencies and freelancing certainly has a different twist on marketing. I have business cards, but how many of you use printed letterhead vs. letterhead printed from your computer? More specifically, is it professional for a small business not to have printed letterhead? I just stopped to our local printer who was asking 50.00US for 100 sheets of letterhead. My tax return is running out and, as in any business, I want to use it wisely. (Tax return = Education fund) I don t mind the investment, if it is required. Thanks! Annette Boehmer BooksEnd@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 11:37:55 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Organization: Crossover Information Services Subject: Re: Cookbook Dictionary Susan Manley wrote: > > I am a newbie. I thought cookbooks would be the easiest to start out with but > I am beginning to wonder. Are you indexing a cookbook now? > Does anyone know if there is a cookbook dictionary > that would have definitions and terminologies The only cookbook-indexing book I've found is Recipes Into Type, by Joan Whitman. It's about writing a cookbook, and has a good section on indexing. Wellisch (Indexing From A to Z, by Hans Wellisch) has about 3 pages, and I've made the horrible mistake of lending my copy of Mulvaney (Indexing Books, by Nancy Mulvaney) to an aspiring indexer, so I can't tell you what she says. Of the three, Recipes Into Type probably has the most detail. If you have access to the Web, you can order any of those books from amazon.com. Here are the links: wellisch, Indexing from A to Z http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/082420882X/r/002-1034733-3745421 mulvaney, Indexing Books http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0226550141/r/002-1034733-3745421 whitman, Recipes Into Type http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0062700340/002-1034733-3745421 amazon.com also lists a couple of food dictionaries; I've not seen the book, but here are the links: The New Food Lover's Companion : Comprehensive Definitions of over 3000 Food, Wine, and Culinary Terms (Barron's Cooking Guide) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0812015207/r/002-1034733-3745421 The Food Lover's Tiptionary : An A to Z Culinary Guide With More Than 4000 Food and Drink Tips http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0688121462/r/002-1034733-3745421 Webster's New World Dictionary of Culinary Arts http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0134757327/r/002-1034733-3745421 The Cook's Dictionary and Culinary Reference : A Comprehensive, Definitive Guide to Cooking and Food http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0809231204/r/002-1034733-3745421 And of course, there are some classic cookbooks that might be helpful: Joy of Cooking (I like this one, not the new one. Heresy, I guess :-) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0026045702/o/002-1034733-3745421 Julia Child (anything by her!) Betty Crocker http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0028603958/o/002-1034733-3745421 Better Homes and Gardens http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0553562916/r/002-1034733-3745421 Fannie Farmer http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0679450815/r/002-1034733-3745421 Help! Stop me before I post all the cookbooks I've ever read, owned, wanted to read, or wished to own !!!:-) Have fun. -- Ann Norcross Crossover Information Services (919) 852-0042 mailto:norcross@ipass.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 12:08:14 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Organization: Crossover Information Services Subject: Re: Marketing to E-mail Annette Boehmer wrote: > > I should have been more specific about what I truly was looking for. I was > given an > E-mail address by a friend of a publisher who said, "Just E-mail him." I > wasn t actually going to do a mass E-mailing, more on the order of a mass > *snail-mailing* (such a word?) of a service brochure. Now, I realize phone is > still the best public relations! I like your ideas about phone contact and > your work experience packet. I am so green, I needed reassuring. I managed 2 > Travel Agencies and freelancing certainly has a different twist on marketing. > I have business cards, but how many of you use printed letterhead vs. > letterhead printed from your computer? I suggest spending your money on a good laser printer, and one, good desktop publishing or word processing software package you are comfortable with. Then do your own simple letterhead, and print it--and matching envelopes--as needed on good paper on your laser printer. That's what I do. (Hewlett-Packard LaserJet 5; Microsoft Word 97, and Microsoft Publisher 98). If you can't swing all (or any) of that right now, pretend you are doing a resume--keep it real simple and only make a few copies. Make up a letterhead in whatever word processor you have, and take it to Kinkos (or whatever your local copy center is) on a disk and let them print it out on THEIR laser printer. That usually costs around $2.00 to $4.00 per page--expensive in quantity, but you only need ONE COPY for a master. Then have 10 or 15 copies made from that master on "resume quality" paper--just enough for your current needs; you can go back later when you need more. These copies won't be laser-printed, they'll be done on the professional copy machines at Kinkos (or wherever). Hand-write your matching envelopes--neatly. :-) That'll be fine! Use the same matching paper--without the letterhead--for your actual resume if you include it, your list of titles indexed if you include that, and any other promotional type material that you send. Again, you can print these at home, or print one master at a copy shop and have copy mades as needed. It will all match, and will look just fine. (This lets me switch from packages of blue to grey to white to off-white paper as the whim strikes me... I get bored easily!) Later, when you are rolling in dough :-), you can take all these masters to a print shop and say, "Typeset 'em, and print 'em on gold-edged parchment!" Hang in there; this is a business but it is also a chance to have a little fun. My letterhead has a tiny little hedgehog on it; I know that's not very "serious," or at all indexing-related, but what the hell, it makes me laugh every time I see the little black nose of that hedgie dotting the "i" in "Services" on my letterhead. And I really don't think I've lost any clients because of it. -- Ann Norcross Crossover Information Services (919) 852-0042 mailto:norcross@ipass.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 11:11:59 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Susan D. Hernandez" Subject: Re: Cookbook Dictionary Hi Susan, I don't know of a specific cookbook dictionary title, but you can learn alot by looking through other cookbooks. Check out the indexes (and the table of contents) to see what dishes are listed under main headings such as "Main courses" and "Side dishes." Not all cookbooks use these headings, so it depends on what you and the editor want. A Main dish would be the meat, chicken, fish, pasta, or some vegetarian recipes. Side dishes are the potatoes, rice, greens, etc. that are served with the main dish. Pickles, etc. could be called condiments or accompaniments and may not be in the book as recipes, probably only mentioned along with a recipe as a serving suggestion. Cookbooks require alot of double and triple posting. For example, a chicken salad recipe can be listed under Chicken, Salads, Main dish salads, Sandwiches, and, if appropriate for the cookbook, regional headings. Be sure to give the cook several ways to find each recipe. - Susan *************************************** Susan Danzi Hernandez BookEnd Indexing susanhernandez@juno.com bookend@sprynet.com > >What is a side dish? Webster's dictionary says that a side dish is: >a food >served separately along with the main course. So what is the main >course (it >doesn't say) is it the main dish. Is Webster saying that side dishes >are >substance dishes like potatoes and greens or are they things like >pickles, >celery, onions etc. that go along side the main course. Does the main >course >include the usually two substantial veggies like potatoes and greens >etc. If >side dishes are the vegetables like potatoes and greens what is the >pickles, >sliced onions, sliced tomatoes etc. that are served with the >meal...are they >accompaniments? > >and if you don't know of such a book does anyone know the answer to >the above >questions. > >Susan > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 10:17:41 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Horowitz Subject: Re: Cookbook Dictionary I have from school th e Cook's & Diner's Dictionary by Funk & Wagnalls from 1968 but it did not contain side dishes. Roberta Horowitz At 10:36 AM 7/5/98 EDT, you wrote: >I am a newbie. I thought cookbooks would be the easiest to start out with but >I am beginning to wonder. Does anyone know if there is a cookbook dictionary >that would have definitions and terminologies that would answer questions such >as: > >What is a side dish? Webster's dictionary says that a side dish is: a food >served separately along with the main course. So what is the main course (it >doesn't say) is it the main dish. Is Webster saying that side dishes are >substance dishes like potatoes and greens or are they things like pickles, >celery, onions etc. that go along side the main course. Does the main course >include the usually two substantial veggies like potatoes and greens etc. If >side dishes are the vegetables like potatoes and greens what is the pickles, >sliced onions, sliced tomatoes etc. that are served with the meal...are they >accompaniments? > >and if you don't know of such a book does anyone know the answer to the above >questions. > >Susan > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 10:12:41 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David T. Terry" Subject: Cont. Ed.: Electronic Documents Seminar (TX) CROSS-POSTED CREATING ELECTRONIC DOCUMENTS FOR THE NEXT CENTURY August 6-7, 1998 UT-Austin, Thompson Conference Center WHO SHOULD ATTEND?=20 This seminar is for professionals whose organization=20 counts on them to provide solutions to the problems posed by the management of electronic documents and=20 records.=20 PURPOSE=20 The purpose of this seminar is twofold: to explore the=20 new technologies we will be using to create documents=20 inthe coming years, and to examine how those standards=20 may be the antidote to the jumble of fractious and proprietary competing formats that threaten to make=20 modern electronic documents inaccessible to future generations.=20 With the advent of the web, the alphabet soup of=20 acronyms to remember =97 such as SGML, DSSSL, HTML, XML, XSL, and EAD=97 has exploded. This two-day seminar=20 will present a view of the emerging standards that will be used for creating and managing documents in=20 the twenty-first century. Many of the technical details involved in the Standardized General Markup Language=20 (SGML) and its cousin, the Extensible Markup Language (XML), will be examined to understand why=20 they are so powerful and how they are meant to be implemented. To demonstrate some real-world applications,=20 we will look at some specific implementations of these markup languages, including Encoded Archival=20 Description (EAD), Cascading Style Sheets (CSS), and others.=20 This seminar will provide insight as to how and why=20 these standards evolved, and how they will provide a framework for the long-term preservation of electronic=20 records. Special emphasis will be placed on the fundamental concepts involved in these document=20 description languages and how they can be used. In=20 addition, the seminar will study many of the policy=20 and organizational decisions that must be made when=20 new document standards are adopted, with examples=20 ranging from government to private industry.=20 ABOUT THE SPEAKER=20 Stan Gunn is a network manager in charge of Internet=20 services for the Texas Youth Commission. He earned his master=92s degree in Library and Information Science=20 from The University of Texas at Austin in 1997 with a specialization in archives and records management. He=20 is currently working on his Ph.D. at the Graduate School of Library and Information Science at The=20 University of Texas at Austin. Stan serves as co-chair=20 of a workgroup writing electronic records functional=20 requirements for state agencies in Texas.=20 COST OF SEMINAR Regular registration fee is $175. Include a $20.00 late=20 fee if registration is not postmarked by July 23, 1998. Check, Visa and Mastercard are accepted. Fee includes=20 refreshments, handouts and lunch. Fees are used to support the UT-Austin GSLIS continuing education program.=20 For more information or for a registration form, contact=20 David Terry (dterry@uts.cc.utexas.edu). or call the GSLIS=20 office, (512) 471-8806 for registration information. Registrations can be faxed, with payment to follow, to=20 avoid the late fee. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 16:41:32 -0700 Reply-To: jimj@wt.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: jimj Organization: Lonewolf Inc. Subject: Cookbook References I have several recipe writing handbooks that my writer-mother has sent to me (hint, hint) which I had not gotten around to reading yet. A quick review reveals: "The Recipe Writer's Handbook" by Barbara Gibbs Ostmann and Jane L. Baker doesn't refer to indexing flat-out but would be useful. It includes a style sheet chapter ("alphabetical listing of common factors in recipe writing...designed to be a quick, user friendly way to look things up"), as well as chapters on Preferred Spellings and Cooking Terminology. Plus it has a Food and Beverage Reference Books section in the bibliography. "The Way to Write and Publish a Cookbook" by Dorris Townsend doesn't look as informative; it does have a chapter on Writing Nonrecipe Material which includes a few pages on indexing (but mostly explaining general indexing concepts) and a Library For Cookbookers bibliography. This book does recommend using a professional indexer, "some gloriously picky soul" including freelancers or the in-house variety who are "categorizing things from morn till dark, from year's beginning to year's end, amen. Don't feel sorry for them; they love it." Anyway, I am also a newbie and very interested in learning techniques for indexing cookbooks; I welcome more information on this topic. Renate Jones jimj@wt.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 14:13:44 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Help with Names I'm calling on the wonderful list members for help on indexing these names: Hiuen Tsaing (Chinese ethnographer, c. 7th century A.D.) Ibn Fadlan (Arab missionary, c. 922 A.D.) I already know from Webster's Biographical Dictionary and a couple of other references that Ibn Khaldun is alphabetized under Ibn, and he is a contemporary of Ibn Fadlan. So, in the absence of word to the contrary, that's how I will handle Ibn Fadlan. And I know that older Chinese names are NOT reversed in alphabetizing, so I assume that this very ancient person should be alphabetized in the H's...right? But I'd love to hear from others who might have a better take on this... Thanks, =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 10:17:41 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Horowitz Subject: Re: Cookbook Dictionary I have from school th e Cook's & Diner's Dictionary by Funk & Wagnalls from 1968 but it did not contain side dishes. Roberta Horowitz At 10:36 AM 7/5/98 EDT, you wrote: >I am a newbie. I thought cookbooks would be the easiest to start out with but >I am beginning to wonder. Does anyone know if there is a cookbook dictionary >that would have definitions and terminologies that would answer questions such >as: > >What is a side dish? Webster's dictionary says that a side dish is: a food >served separately along with the main course. So what is the main course (it >doesn't say) is it the main dish. Is Webster saying that side dishes are >substance dishes like potatoes and greens or are they things like pickles, >celery, onions etc. that go along side the main course. Does the main course >include the usually two substantial veggies like potatoes and greens etc. If >side dishes are the vegetables like potatoes and greens what is the pickles, >sliced onions, sliced tomatoes etc. that are served with the meal...are they >accompaniments? > >and if you don't know of such a book does anyone know the answer to the above >questions. > >Susan > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 04:38:38 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: Cookbook Dictionary In-Reply-To: <199807051437.KAA22843@mail3.bellsouth.net> Cookbooks are actually a rather specialized category of indexing. Recipes have to be indexed under "type" of cooking (casserole, etc), under names of major ingredients, sometimes under ethnicity of cuisine, and so on. There are well-established index formats for cookbooks that serious cooks expect to see. I know there are a couple of specialized how-to books on *writing* cookbooks, and I believe I've seen a couple of articles (but I don't remember where -- probably KeyWords) on indexing them. Also there are several good food-and-cooking encyclopedias that define terms; have you checked the reference section of your local library? (...speaking as a 30-year librarian!) Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds > -----Original Message----- > From: Indexer's Discussion Group > [mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Susan Manley > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 1998 9:36 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Cookbook Dictionary > > > I am a newbie. I thought cookbooks would be the easiest to start > out with but > I am beginning to wonder. Does anyone know if there is a > cookbook dictionary > that would have definitions and terminologies that would answer > questions such > as: > > What is a side dish? Webster's dictionary says that a side dish > is: a food > served separately along with the main course. So what is the > main course (it > doesn't say) is it the main dish. Is Webster saying that side dishes are > substance dishes like potatoes and greens or are they things like pickles, > celery, onions etc. that go along side the main course. Does the > main course > include the usually two substantial veggies like potatoes and > greens etc. If > side dishes are the vegetables like potatoes and greens what is > the pickles, > sliced onions, sliced tomatoes etc. that are served with the > meal...are they > accompaniments? > > and if you don't know of such a book does anyone know the answer > to the above > questions. > > Susan > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 23:04:19 -0400 Reply-To: brocindx@catskill.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kevin A. Broccoli" Organization: Broccoli Information Management Subject: Re: Marketing to E-mail Another thing to think about is directing publishers to your web site via an e-mail. In this way, it's kind of like sending them a brochure, but it's online. The e-mail can be quite short and direct since they may not read a long one, and all that they have to do is click on your URL and bingo- they have a full presentation. Kevin A. Broccoli Broccoli Information Management brocindx@catskill.net http://www.bim.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 20:36:45 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: marvant duhon Subject: Re: Cookbook Dictionary In-Reply-To: <199807051615.LAA29520@shooter.bluemarble.net> On cookbooks: I have never written or indexed a cookbook but as a class I think they may be the worst-indexed indexed books there are (at least they are the worst that I can think of). I wish to echo the superb advice given by Ms. Hernandez. I was going to suggest study of several well-indexed ones and was shocked to see that Ann Norcross had already included all three that had come to my mind in her short list. This is mighty strong evidence that well-indexed American cookbooks are rare. What kind of cookbook is being edited? For traditional "anglo" American cooking, by all means steep yourself in "Fanny Farmer" and "The Joy of Cooking". In certain ethnic cuisines, for example Cajun or the more Mexican-influenced strains of Tex-Mex, the boundaries are definitely different. Move away from Europe and England's former colonies and you need to throw away the "anglo" map entirely. Also, functionally different cookbooks such as the Trail Cookbook my sister wrote and the 1942 Tabasco Sauce Cookbook written by Colonel (immediately thereafter promoted to General) McIlhenney to tell Marines how to spice up their rations would of course require special indexing. I would almost say that if you are not familiar with the cuisine and culture you have no business indexing a cookbook, and I would be right, except that a relatively intelligent competent indexer can hardly do worse than the currently prevailing standards. On Sun, 5 Jul 1998, Susan D. Hernandez wrote: > Hi Susan, > > I don't know of a specific cookbook dictionary title, but you can > learn alot by looking through other cookbooks. Check out the indexes (and > the table of contents) to see what dishes are listed under main headings > such as "Main courses" and "Side dishes." Not all cookbooks use these > headings, so it depends on what you and the editor want. > > A Main dish would be the meat, chicken, fish, pasta, or some > vegetarian recipes. Side dishes are the potatoes, rice, greens, etc. > that are served with the main dish. Pickles, etc. could be called > condiments or accompaniments and may not be in the book as recipes, > probably only mentioned along with a recipe as a serving suggestion. > > Cookbooks require alot of double and triple posting. For example, a > chicken salad recipe can be listed under Chicken, Salads, Main dish > salads, Sandwiches, and, if appropriate for the cookbook, regional > headings. Be sure to give the cook several ways to find each recipe. > > > - Susan > > > *************************************** > Susan Danzi Hernandez > BookEnd Indexing > susanhernandez@juno.com > bookend@sprynet.com > > > > > >What is a side dish? Webster's dictionary says that a side dish is: > >a food > >served separately along with the main course. So what is the main > >course (it > >doesn't say) is it the main dish. Is Webster saying that side dishes > >are > >substance dishes like potatoes and greens or are they things like > >pickles, > >celery, onions etc. that go along side the main course. Does the main > >course > >include the usually two substantial veggies like potatoes and greens > >etc. If > >side dishes are the vegetables like potatoes and greens what is the > >pickles, > >sliced onions, sliced tomatoes etc. that are served with the > >meal...are they > >accompaniments? > > > >and if you don't know of such a book does anyone know the answer to > >the above > >questions. > > > >Susan > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 04:58:46 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: Marketing to E-mail In-Reply-To: <199807051612.MAA11116@mail4.bellsouth.net> You'll find that *many* indexers (including me) do not do cold-calling at all well. Face-to-face is okay, but I *hate* having to introduce myself to a stranger over the phone, especially when I'm trying to sell her something. I do almost all my marketing by mail -- because I *am* good at writing! I used to have printed stationery, but there's little point in that these days. In fact, I have about six different letterheads set up in WordPerfect: one with my graphic logo (the same "Bookman" that appears on my web page), one with only a semi-fancy typeface, etc (I have matching 'business' and 'personal' templates for each, with and without my business name). I keep some nicer paper stock on hand (cheap at Office Depot) for printing credit lists, etc. Avery stock for business cards is pretty cheap, too. (In the past -- though not for indexing, yet -- I've printed up special cards for trade shows, etc, with a local hotel phone number, my booth number, and so on.) I recently had printed up 500 copies of a trifold brochure for marketing (cost was ~$85), which was fine for the large amount of mailing I did on that occasion, but that kind of thing goes out of date rather quickly. Of course, I designed the brochure and printed out the master in WordPerfect. It's not only cheaper, remember, it adds another skill to your repetoire.... All this, of course, depends on a laser printer -- but, based on what business people (including editors and publishers) expect these days, a laser printer should -- in my opinion -- be an early purchase for any professional indexer. You can get a very good one for around $500 street price. Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds Annette Boehmer wrote: > > I should have been more specific about what I truly was looking for. I was given an > E-mail address by a friend of a publisher who said, "Just E-mail him." I > wasn t actually going to do a mass E-mailing, more on the order of a mass > *snail-mailing* (such a word?) of a service brochure. Now, I realize phone is > still the best public relations! I like your ideas about phone contact and > your work experience packet. I am so green, I needed reassuring. I managed 2 > Travel Agencies and freelancing certainly has a different twist on marketing. > I have business cards, but how many of you use printed letterhead vs. > letterhead printed from your computer? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 18:03:40 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: INFO: Armaggedon Approaches Originally I was going to post a note to the List asking for advice on marketing. I actually DO have skills but they are a bit too esoteric or specialized for general use [it would have been fun to be part of the team that mixed the "Titanic" soundtrack, for example]. My bright idea was, and still is, to offer some sort of Year 2000 service to local computer users, for a fee. As an initial example, would you be willing to pay $50, $100, or more to have me test your system and report what hardware and software was not Y2000 compliant and needed replacement or upgrading? [I STILL need marketing suggestions; plz reply offlist.] Since I have been only partially informed about the problem I needed more information, so I bought a couple of books. As one reviewer of the Yourdon's book remarked [approx], "The Y2000 situation is way, way more serious than most people could imagine." That is an understatement; I have not yet finished both books, but I am seriously beginning to consider moving to a rural area sometime next year if I can afford it. This is NOT a joke. Even though a total cultural or societal meltdown probably will not occur, at least in the USA, all of us, you, me, your friends and loved ones, perhaps even your job WILL be affected if only for a few days. Here are the book titles with a few quotes and comments: Yourdon and Yourdon, "Time bomb 2000: what the year 2000 crisis means to you!" 1998. Prentice-Hall. ISBN: 0-13-095284-2 The book's main sections cover impacts on: jobs, utilities, transportation, banking/finance, food, your home PC, news and information, health/medicine, government, embedded systems, education, telephone and mail services. Within each section the authors give "fall-back" advice for personal evaluation: 2-3 days, 1 month, 1 year, and 10 years. Included are many Internet references and other resources. Here is a quote I think most applicable: "As with most things, the 80/20 rule applies here: Chances are that 80% of the activity on your computer involves only 20% of the application programs. It's likely to be your word processor, your home finance system, the e-mail program, and a few popular games that present problems. Those are the ones you should check first for Year-2000 compliance; and depending on the outcome, you can then determine how much disruption would be caused by Year-2000-related problems in those programs. This is a simplistic version of the "triage" strategy now being employed by large businesses. There are a few applications that may be absolutely essential to one's survival, though that is less likely for a home PC than for a business computer..." Kappelman, "Year 2000 Problem: Strategies and Solutions from the Fortune 100." 1997. Thomson Computer Press. ISBN: 1-85302-913-3 For its $50 price, this book appears messy and poorly printed. The "Index", for a 443-page book, runs for all of 4 pages and is useless; the ONLY entry under "G" is "Government .... 3, 5, 6, 9, 13, [52 more pages follow]". The book appears to be a compilation of papers from many authors working in different fields. As a RESOURCE volume it is quite good: includes a CD with technical papers AND a test program, a table listing 41 Internet sites, and much more. Here is a short quote relating to industry: "Solving the year 2000 date problem represents a huge undertaking for most organizations. In order to discuss the role of IS audit and control professionals in solving the year 2000 problem, it is important to understand how IS audit and control professionals can play an important role simply by helping organizations to avoid getting stuck in a state of denial and inaction..." And I may add Good Luck, as well. Later this month I will post a Doomsday List of Internet resources, after I have finished reading both books and culled out the most useful sites. For those of you who request a copy I will also, MAYBE, compose a new Y2000 bookmark file which will be similar to my popular FONTMARK file I distributed earlier this year, though this time more carefully edited and presented. Should you wish to check your own computer systems I will also post the simple instructions for checking your motherboard and BIOS compliance. If you have $75 to spend, I heartily suggest that you buy a copy of CHECK 2000, from Greenwich Mean Time. A trial version of this program came with the Kappelman book but I was NOT able to locate a trial version on the Net. GMT is at: http://www.gmt-2000/main.htm. News at eleven, Dave Talcott 75711.1537@compuserve.com [no typos this time?] ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 15:11:17 -0700 Reply-To: dmbrown@brown-inc.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Whew! (Cookbook Bibliography) Ann Norcross wrote: > > ... > Help! Stop me before I post all the cookbooks I've ever read, > owned, wanted to read, or wished to own !!!:-) I know I'm wasting time, money, and precious Internet bandwidth, but I had to remark on Ms. Norcross' message. It's one of those rare and delightful surprises that sometimes result from a simple request for information. With myriad titles and links to an on-line bookseller, too, it is a perfect example of what makes these "hypercommunities" like Index-L work so well: the enthusiasm for subject and eagerness to share that are demonstrated daily by so many of the subscribers. --David ======================= David M. Brown Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com www.brown-inc.com ======================= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 12:03:19 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Horowitz Subject: Disability Insurance This morning on the Wall Street Journal Report was a segment about Disabiiity Insurance. In the segement they mentioned something called Listbilling where 3 or more individuals could become a group and then receive disability insurance at a group rate. They did not give much details but it seems that the individuals do not have to have a work connection. THey give a website for the Health Insurance of American ?? at http://www.hiaa.org. I looked at the site and it does contain alot of educational information about all kinds of insurance though I did not see anything specific about listbilling they do have a phone number and email address. Under the consumer section are some booklets that include some checklists to help evaluate policies. According to the segment most people are under insured for disability and over insured in most other areas. Roberta Horowitz rhorowitz@acm.org ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 22:55:11 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jacqueline Janezic Subject: Re: Attrition rate for USDA course Jean Middleton wrote: > Is this course so difficult that people drop out? Do those of you who > have not completed the course still feel it was worthwhile? I am now > taking the Susan Holbert course but thought I might take the USDA one > as well. I have taken the USDA course and highly recommend it. I had a great instructor who responded promptly and thoroughly. However, the process was slowed down considerably as the corrected lessons had to pass through Washington before they were returned to me. Working one on one with an experienced indexer highlights things you won't necessarily find in your reading. Index-L is also a great resource - work your way through the archives for a lot of excellent advice - and some entertaining threads! Jacqueline Janezic BookWorm Indexing Services ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 09:33:40 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: civility At 09:32 AM 7/4/98 EDT, Margie Towery wrote: >. . . civility seems >to be more and more rare in e-mail exchanges. In *The Argument Culture,* >Deborah Tannen discusses the vicious, destructive uses of e-mail and notes >that people tend to "fire off" messages/responses with little thinking, far >less than they might in a face-to-face chat or even on the phone. I think it >behooves us to think of that tendency in our culture--and in ourselves (and I >include myself in this!). Before sending a message, I try to ask myself, would >I say that to the person if he/she were standing in front of me with 20 >witnesses to the conversation? . . . I practice another precaution against "firing off" e-mail responses: saving new messages without queueing them for sending; rereading and, if necessary, editing them before I next get on line; and only then, though perhaps not even then, queueing them up and sending them. Sure beats being driven by and subjecting others to my own immediate reactions. Michael Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 530-272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 12:49:00 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Shirley K Warkentin Subject: Re: Text books On Fri, 3 Jul 1998 22:35:01 EDT Carol Deason writes: >Do any of you index textbooks? Are textbooks indexed by freelancers? >Who >does the indexing for foreign language textbooks? > I indexed a mathematics textbook last year and have a list of several textbook publishers who use freelancers. Shirley Warkentin Cornerstone Indexing BUILDING A BETTER BOOK indexer@juno.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 12:45:03 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Shirley K Warkentin Subject: Re: electronic vs. paper On Thu, 2 Jul 1998 14:16:42 +0100 Rosalind Lund writes: >Personally I don't mind supplying a hard disk, but really resent the >time and paper used presenting hard copy. Surely it's far easier for >the publishers to do a print out for themselves if they really need >hard >copy to look at and they can print it out as they like - double spaced >or whatever is easier to read. I think we should all refuse to supply >hard copies to bona fide publishers! >-- I think it's a good idea to send a hard copy along with the disk or e-mail attachment. There can be "translation" errors on the disk or file attachment and the hard copy lets the editor know what the index is really meant to look like. Shirley Warkentin Cornerstone Indexing BUILDING A BETTER BOOK indexer@juno.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 10:56:37 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Schultz, Darrel" Subject: Re: Text books I would be interested in contacting any of your textbook publishers if you are overbooked and need to pass on some work. Thanks. Darrel Schultz darrel_schultz@jdedwards.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Shirley K Warkentin [SMTP:indexer@JUNO.COM] > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 1998 1:49 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Text books > > On Fri, 3 Jul 1998 22:35:01 EDT Carol Deason writes: > >Do any of you index textbooks? Are textbooks indexed by freelancers? > >Who > >does the indexing for foreign language textbooks? > > > I indexed a mathematics textbook last year and have a list of several > textbook publishers who use freelancers. > > Shirley Warkentin > Cornerstone Indexing > BUILDING A BETTER BOOK > indexer@juno.com > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 10:03:33 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Toni Williams TPG/SG Subject: Re: civility FWIW, I think this is excellent advice. I know for myself that it is very easy to react and then be sorry or at best, mistaken. Thank you, Michael. Toni > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Brackney [SMTP:brackney@NCCN.NET] > Sent: Monday, July 06, 1998 5:34 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: civility > > >I practice another precaution against "firing off" e-mail responses: saving >new messages without queueing them for sending; rereading and, if necessary, >editing them before I next get on line; and only then, though perhaps not >even then, queueing them up and sending them. Sure beats being driven by >and subjecting others to my own immediate reactions. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 10:15:39 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Shirley K Warkentin Subject: Re: Marketing by E-mail On Sat, 4 Jul 1998 15:08:51 EDT Annette Boehmer writes: >A little off subject from sending files by E-mail, from those of us >who would >like to be there! > >Does anyone know what is *proper* business etiquette regarding first >contact >to a >publisher? I have always felt it is inappropriate to contact someone >in >business by E-mail without first contacting them by snail mail or >phone. >Although, I have forwarded a copy to E-mail when a hardcopy was in the >mail. >(I delete junk E-mail and wouldn't want to end up in that category.) >What is >the accepted or preferred course of action? How many of you send a >brochure >about indexing and the services you offer? And do you include your >resume as >a follow-up? I have taken the USDA course and purchased the >appropriate >indexing tools. Now I would like to do some aggressive marketing >without >crossing the rules of etiquette. Thanks in advance!!!!! > >Annette Boehmer >BooksEnd@aol.com >website coming soon............. > Interesting that you should ask these questions. Just last week I decided to experiment with making my initial contact with publishers by e-mail. I am beginning to see that my contacts at publishers are using e-mail more and more rather than the phone, so I am thinking that a first contact by e-mail may even be preferable to a phone call. My first phone contact with a publisher is usually limited to finding out if they use freelancers, and to whom I should send my resume and a sample index. So, I kept my e-mail brief, asked my two questions, and referred them to my web site. Out of the six e-mail queries I sent five days ago, two came back undeliverable, two wanted my information, and two I haven't heard from yet. Shirley Warkentin Cornerstone Indexing BUILDING A BETTER BOOK indexer@juno.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 14:10:35 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: TAHUDOBA@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Marketing to E-mail In a message dated 98-07-05 11:41:27 EDT, you write: << Subj: Re: Marketing to E-mail I have business cards, but how many of you use printed letterhead vs. letterhead printed from your computer? More specifically, is it professional for a small business not to have printed letterhead? I just stopped to our local printer who was asking 50.00US for 100 sheets of letterhead. My tax return is running out and, as in any business, I want to use it wisely. (Tax return = Education fund) I don t mind the investment, if it is required. Thanks! Annette Boehmer BooksEnd@aol.com >> Hi Annette-- You can actually do both--get yourself a good laser printer and then check out office supply stores or catalogues for preprinted paper that you can adapt for use as letterhead or resumes. Paper Direct (800-272-7377 or www.paperdirect.com) has more than 50 different preprinted papers and makes them available in small quantities (100 sheets) plus matching envelopes, brochure paper, and business cards. Regards, Terri P.S. If this sounds like a plug for the catalogue--it is! I do the index for it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Teresa A. Hudoba Indexers Plus: Indexing, Editing, and Other Useful Services tahudoba@aol.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Reality is for those who have no imagination. (bumper sticker) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 14:14:40 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pamela Venneman Subject: Re: Marketing by E-mail Two publishers that I contacted (by phone) asked for resumes, etc. by e-mail. Pamela Venneman Lighthouse Indexing Services ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 14:42:46 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary Mortensen Subject: Indexing oral history of Holocaust Did anyone else in the U.S. hear the story on National Public Radio's Morning Edition program today about the indexing of videotaped interviews with Holocaust survivors? The Shoah Foundation is taping the interviews and indexing them. The process was discussed in some detail, with an emphasis on how the index will help researchers. The catalogers (term used by the reporter) use a controlled vocabulary of about 10,000 terms (as I recall). It takes about 2 days to index a 2-hour interview. Mary -- * Mary Mortensen * marymort@aol.com * Lawrence, Kansas ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 14:50:26 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Marketing to E-mail In-Reply-To: <199807061812.OAA05265@camel16.mindspring.com> At 02:10 PM 7/6/98 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-07-05 11:41:27 EDT, you write: > ><< Subj: Re: Marketing to E-mail > > I have business cards, but how many of you use printed letterhead vs. > letterhead printed from your computer? I have printed stationery as well as a professionally-designed logo. The design work cost about $300. I feel that if you are going to run a business you need to present a business-like face to the world. Dick Evans ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 11:46:50 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kai Wyrill Subject: Re: Marketing by E-mail Shirley wrote "...I am beginning to see that my contacts at publishers are using e-mail more and more rather than the phone, so I am thinking that a first contact by e-mail may even be preferable to a phone call. My first phone contact with a publisher is usually limited to finding out if they use freelancers, and to whom I should send my resume and a sample index. So, I kept my e-mail brief, asked my two questions, and referred them to my web site. Out of the six e-mail queries I sent five days ago, two came back undeliverable, two wanted my information, and two I haven't heard from yet. Shirley Warkentin Cornerstone Indexing BUILDING A BETTER BOOK indexer@juno.com" That's an excellent return rate, Shirley. I think a "good" return on direct (snail) mail is somewhere around 2%. If it's not against list rules, would you post your URL? Thanks, kai kai.wyrill@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 11:42:45 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Marketing to E-mail In-Reply-To: <199807060407.XAA04044@mixcom.mixcom.com> >I have business cards, but how many of you use printed letterhead vs. >letterhead printed from your computer? I just use letterhead and matching envelopes that I (laser)print off my computer. It does contain a small logo of a book. I must confess that I don't even use fancy, expensive paper; I use a bright white recycled printer paper. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 14:53:25 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: Indexing oral history of Holocaust Yes! I heard that! I thought it was very cool. Sounds like they are breaking ground in the field of electronic cataloging/indexing, too! I can't think of a better cause, either. -- Sharon W. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mary Mortensen [SMTP:MaryMort@AOL.COM] > Sent: Monday, July 06, 1998 2:43 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Indexing oral history of Holocaust > > Did anyone else in the U.S. hear the story on National Public Radio's > Morning > Edition program today about the indexing of videotaped interviews with > Holocaust survivors? The Shoah Foundation is taping the interviews and > indexing them. The process was discussed in some detail, with an emphasis > on > how the index will help researchers. The catalogers (term used by the > reporter) use a controlled vocabulary of about 10,000 terms (as I recall). > It > takes about 2 days to index a 2-hour interview. > > Mary > -- > * Mary Mortensen * marymort@aol.com > * Lawrence, Kansas ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 12:44:41 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Horowitz Subject: Re: Indexing oral history of Holocaust I saw a demo of the database at a recent Am Society Information Science meeting and it fantastic. On the screen as you hear the interview you can bring up maps to pinpoint the area of interest, see video of the person and many other activities. The database can be accessed at the Holocaust museums in Los Angeles and Washington DC, a museum in Tel Aviv and I think the other place is at Yale. I am sure it will soon come to the Web. Great care is being taken to be accurate, the interviews are done at the persons home with a native speaker as well as a videorecorder. They even digitize family photos. There was some talk about including interviews with those that helped people escape. Roberta Horowitz rhorowitz@acm.org At 02:53 PM 7/6/98 -0400, you wrote: >Yes! I heard that! I thought it was very cool. Sounds like they are >breaking ground in the field of electronic cataloging/indexing, too! I >can't think of a better cause, either. > >-- Sharon W. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Mary Mortensen [SMTP:MaryMort@AOL.COM] >> Sent: Monday, July 06, 1998 2:43 PM >> To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L >> Subject: Indexing oral history of Holocaust >> >> Did anyone else in the U.S. hear the story on National Public Radio's >> Morning >> Edition program today about the indexing of videotaped interviews with >> Holocaust survivors? The Shoah Foundation is taping the interviews and >> indexing them. The process was discussed in some detail, with an emphasis >> on >> how the index will help researchers. The catalogers (term used by the >> reporter) use a controlled vocabulary of about 10,000 terms (as I recall). >> It >> takes about 2 days to index a 2-hour interview. >> >> Mary >> -- >> * Mary Mortensen * marymort@aol.com >> * Lawrence, Kansas > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 14:03:37 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marsha Lofthouse Subject: Re: Indexing oral history of Holocaust If I remember correctly (and consider that I am not a morning person so I was half-asleep when listening to this on NPR early this morning), they said that this probably would not appear on the web. The reason had to do with the fact that some of the facts as remembered by the interviewees may have lost some of their factuality over the years. The Shoah Foundation does not want this to be used by those who insist that the Holocaust never happened. Marsha Lofthouse mailto:mlofthouse@targetsmartinc.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Roberta Horowitz [SMTP:RHorowitz@ACM.ORG] > Sent: Monday, July 06, 1998 1:45 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Indexing oral history of Holocaust > > I saw a demo of the database at a recent Am Society Information Science > meeting and it fantastic. On the screen as you hear the interview you can > bring up maps to pinpoint the area of interest, see video of the person > and > many other activities. The database can be accessed at the Holocaust > museums in Los Angeles and Washington DC, a museum in Tel Aviv and I think > the other place is at Yale. I am sure it will soon come to the Web. > > Great care is being taken to be accurate, the interviews are done at the > persons home with a native speaker as well as a videorecorder. They even > digitize family photos. > > There was some talk about including interviews with those that helped > people > escape. > > Roberta Horowitz > rhorowitz@acm.org > > > At 02:53 PM 7/6/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Yes! I heard that! I thought it was very cool. Sounds like they are > >breaking ground in the field of electronic cataloging/indexing, too! I > >can't think of a better cause, either. > > > >-- Sharon W. > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Mary Mortensen [SMTP:MaryMort@AOL.COM] > >> Sent: Monday, July 06, 1998 2:43 PM > >> To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > >> Subject: Indexing oral history of Holocaust > >> > >> Did anyone else in the U.S. hear the story on National Public Radio's > >> Morning > >> Edition program today about the indexing of videotaped interviews with > >> Holocaust survivors? The Shoah Foundation is taping the interviews and > >> indexing them. The process was discussed in some detail, with an > emphasis > >> on > >> how the index will help researchers. The catalogers (term used by the > >> reporter) use a controlled vocabulary of about 10,000 terms (as I > recall). > >> It > >> takes about 2 days to index a 2-hour interview. > >> > >> Mary > >> -- > >> * Mary Mortensen * marymort@aol.com > >> * Lawrence, Kansas > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 16:02:49 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: Indexing oral history of Holocaust Actually, according to this morning's report, it's not going to be available on the web. As is the nature of eyewitness testimony (as we lawyers know oh, too well!), when you have the testimony of the number of people that are involved with this project there are contradictions and inconsistencies. The Shoah Foundation is afraid that if this were all made available on the web, the Holocaust-deniers would use the contradictions and inconsistencies to support their theory that it never took place. Sad, isn't it? But I understand their reluctance. No point in actually providing ammunition to the enemy. After the story this morning I really wanted to volunteer my services! The report discussed how the people who index this material sometimes sit at their terminals weeping at the stories they are hearing, but other times they leave feeling uplifted by the spirit of the survivors. I'm sure it would be an emotional roller-coaster, but what a fascinating look at history! -- Sharon W. > -----Original Message----- > From: Roberta Horowitz [SMTP:RHorowitz@ACM.ORG] > Sent: Monday, July 06, 1998 3:45 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Indexing oral history of Holocaust > > I saw a demo of the database at a recent Am Society Information Science > meeting and it fantastic. On the screen as you hear the interview you can > bring up maps to pinpoint the area of interest, see video of the person > and > many other activities. The database can be accessed at the Holocaust > museums in Los Angeles and Washington DC, a museum in Tel Aviv and I think > the other place is at Yale. I am sure it will soon come to the Web. > > Great care is being taken to be accurate, the interviews are done at the > persons home with a native speaker as well as a videorecorder. They even > digitize family photos. > > There was some talk about including interviews with those that helped > people > escape. > > Roberta Horowitz > rhorowitz@acm.org > > > At 02:53 PM 7/6/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Yes! I heard that! I thought it was very cool. Sounds like they are > >breaking ground in the field of electronic cataloging/indexing, too! I > >can't think of a better cause, either. > > > >-- Sharon W. > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Mary Mortensen [SMTP:MaryMort@AOL.COM] > >> Sent: Monday, July 06, 1998 2:43 PM > >> To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > >> Subject: Indexing oral history of Holocaust > >> > >> Did anyone else in the U.S. hear the story on National Public Radio's > >> Morning > >> Edition program today about the indexing of videotaped interviews with > >> Holocaust survivors? The Shoah Foundation is taping the interviews and > >> indexing them. The process was discussed in some detail, with an > emphasis > >> on > >> how the index will help researchers. The catalogers (term used by the > >> reporter) use a controlled vocabulary of about 10,000 terms (as I > recall). > >> It > >> takes about 2 days to index a 2-hour interview. > >> > >> Mary > >> -- > >> * Mary Mortensen * marymort@aol.com > >> * Lawrence, Kansas > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 13:30:21 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Horowitz Subject: Re: Indexing oral history of Holocaust Marsha You are correct about the factuality. If I remember correctly from the presentation, the Shoah Foundation is not editing the interviews to correct possible errors but what they plan to do is that if the historians reviewing the tapes due find possible errors they will insert a correction that is clearly marked as a clarification. Seems like a reasonable solution. Roberta At 02:03 PM 7/6/98 -0600, you wrote: >If I remember correctly (and consider that I am not a morning person so I >was half-asleep when listening to this on NPR early this morning), they said >that this probably would not appear on the web. The reason had to do with >the fact that some of the facts as remembered by the interviewees may have >lost some of their factuality over the years. The Shoah Foundation does not >want this to be used by those who insist that the Holocaust never happened. > >Marsha Lofthouse >mailto:mlofthouse@targetsmartinc.com > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Roberta Horowitz [SMTP:RHorowitz@ACM.ORG] >> Sent: Monday, July 06, 1998 1:45 PM >> To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L >> Subject: Re: Indexing oral history of Holocaust >> >> I saw a demo of the database at a recent Am Society Information Science >> meeting and it fantastic. On the screen as you hear the interview you can >> bring up maps to pinpoint the area of interest, see video of the person >> and >> many other activities. The database can be accessed at the Holocaust >> museums in Los Angeles and Washington DC, a museum in Tel Aviv and I think >> the other place is at Yale. I am sure it will soon come to the Web. >> >> Great care is being taken to be accurate, the interviews are done at the >> persons home with a native speaker as well as a videorecorder. They even >> digitize family photos. >> >> There was some talk about including interviews with those that helped >> people >> escape. >> >> Roberta Horowitz >> rhorowitz@acm.org >> >> >> At 02:53 PM 7/6/98 -0400, you wrote: >> >Yes! I heard that! I thought it was very cool. Sounds like they are >> >breaking ground in the field of electronic cataloging/indexing, too! I >> >can't think of a better cause, either. >> > >> >-- Sharon W. >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Mary Mortensen [SMTP:MaryMort@AOL.COM] >> >> Sent: Monday, July 06, 1998 2:43 PM >> >> To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L >> >> Subject: Indexing oral history of Holocaust >> >> >> >> Did anyone else in the U.S. hear the story on National Public Radio's >> >> Morning >> >> Edition program today about the indexing of videotaped interviews with >> >> Holocaust survivors? The Shoah Foundation is taping the interviews and >> >> indexing them. The process was discussed in some detail, with an >> emphasis >> >> on >> >> how the index will help researchers. The catalogers (term used by the >> >> reporter) use a controlled vocabulary of about 10,000 terms (as I >> recall). >> >> It >> >> takes about 2 days to index a 2-hour interview. >> >> >> >> Mary >> >> -- >> >> * Mary Mortensen * marymort@aol.com >> >> * Lawrence, Kansas >> > >> > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 13:36:06 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Horowitz Subject: Re: Indexing oral history of Holocaust I just remembered that they did mention they were not going to use the Web and the reason was for security reasons, i.e. to prevent the data from being altered. Roberta At 04:02 PM 7/6/98 -0400, you wrote: >Actually, according to this morning's report, it's not going to be available >on the web. As is the nature of eyewitness testimony (as we lawyers know >oh, too well!), when you have the testimony of the number of people that are >involved with this project there are contradictions and inconsistencies. >The Shoah Foundation is afraid that if this were all made available on the >web, the Holocaust-deniers would use the contradictions and inconsistencies >to support their theory that it never took place. Sad, isn't it? But I >understand their reluctance. No point in actually providing ammunition to >the enemy. > >After the story this morning I really wanted to volunteer my services! The >report discussed how the people who index this material sometimes sit at >their terminals weeping at the stories they are hearing, but other times >they leave feeling uplifted by the spirit of the survivors. I'm sure it >would be an emotional roller-coaster, but what a fascinating look at >history! > >-- Sharon W. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Roberta Horowitz [SMTP:RHorowitz@ACM.ORG] >> Sent: Monday, July 06, 1998 3:45 PM >> To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L >> Subject: Re: Indexing oral history of Holocaust >> >> I saw a demo of the database at a recent Am Society Information Science >> meeting and it fantastic. On the screen as you hear the interview you can >> bring up maps to pinpoint the area of interest, see video of the person >> and >> many other activities. The database can be accessed at the Holocaust >> museums in Los Angeles and Washington DC, a museum in Tel Aviv and I think >> the other place is at Yale. I am sure it will soon come to the Web. >> >> Great care is being taken to be accurate, the interviews are done at the >> persons home with a native speaker as well as a videorecorder. They even >> digitize family photos. >> >> There was some talk about including interviews with those that helped >> people >> escape. >> >> Roberta Horowitz >> rhorowitz@acm.org >> >> >> At 02:53 PM 7/6/98 -0400, you wrote: >> >Yes! I heard that! I thought it was very cool. Sounds like they are >> >breaking ground in the field of electronic cataloging/indexing, too! I >> >can't think of a better cause, either. >> > >> >-- Sharon W. >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Mary Mortensen [SMTP:MaryMort@AOL.COM] >> >> Sent: Monday, July 06, 1998 2:43 PM >> >> To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L >> >> Subject: Indexing oral history of Holocaust >> >> >> >> Did anyone else in the U.S. hear the story on National Public Radio's >> >> Morning >> >> Edition program today about the indexing of videotaped interviews with >> >> Holocaust survivors? The Shoah Foundation is taping the interviews and >> >> indexing them. The process was discussed in some detail, with an >> emphasis >> >> on >> >> how the index will help researchers. The catalogers (term used by the >> >> reporter) use a controlled vocabulary of about 10,000 terms (as I >> recall). >> >> It >> >> takes about 2 days to index a 2-hour interview. >> >> >> >> Mary >> >> -- >> >> * Mary Mortensen * marymort@aol.com >> >> * Lawrence, Kansas >> > >> > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 15:38:58 -0500 Reply-To: lyjohnso@hsc.unt.edu Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Lynn F. Johnson" Organization: UNTHSC Subject: Re: Text books Shirley K Warkentin wrote: > ...I indexed a mathematics textbook last year and have a list of > several > textbook publishers who use freelancers... Would you being willing to share your list? I am just starting out. Thank you for any help that you can offer. Lynn F. Johnson E-mail: lyjohnso@hsc.unt.eduE-mail: lynn@airmail.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 19:13:20 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marlene London Subject: ARABIC NAMES Thank you to Huda Dodge, Ibrahim Al-Kharashi, and Pilar Wyman for helping me with my emirs, sheiks, sultans, and princes! You guys at Index-L are always there when I need you! Made my deadline on time! Marlene London Profindex@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 21:52:24 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Stroup Subject: Mass. chapter president's surgery To all indexers: This is to let you know that our chapter president, Susan Holbert, is undergoing some serious surgery on Tuesday, July 7. She will be on leave from chapter responsibilities at least until August, and requests that you send official notes/questions/ etc. to our Pres.Elect, Ann Daley who will be acting President until then. Susan would be happy to receive your cards and messages at her home address; someone from the board will let you know of her progress by the end of the week: Susan Holbert, 24 Harris Street, Waltham MA 02154-6105. Barbara Stroup ( for Mass. chapter board) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 22:23:54 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Deason Subject: List of Publishers Where is the best place to find a list of publishers? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 22:30:37 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cournoyer Subject: Re: List of Publishers -----Original Message----- From: Carol Deason To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: July 6, 1998 10:24 PM Subject: List of Publishers >Where is the best place to find a list of publishers? >I can only respond for Canada. I find Canadian publishers in a directory I receive twice per year with my subscription to Quill & Quire, a publication about the publishing industry in Canada. Linda ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 22:45:55 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Margaret Stevenson Subject: Re: List of Publishers In-Reply-To: <199807070224.WAA22038@camel5.mindspring.com> Books in Print has a publisher's volume. You should find this at any sizeable library--public, academic, whatever. Hope it helps! At 10:23 PM 7/6/98 EDT, you wrote: >Where is the best place to find a list of publishers? > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 23:15:33 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: List of Publishers In-Reply-To: <199807070224.WAA24550@camel10.mindspring.com> At 10:23 PM 7/6/98 -0400, you wrote: >Where is the best place to find a list of publishers? > Try "Insider's Guide to Book Editors, Publishers, and Literary Agents" ISBN 1-55958-545-5 Publishers are indexed by the type of material they publish and the descriptive text includes the name and contact info for the person to approach. Dick Evans ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 22:38:57 -0600 Reply-To: mcnulty@montana.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joanne and Moose McNulty Subject: subjectivity in indexing Hi all!! I'm just starting to work on some indexing exercises as I am a beginner. I'm realizing how subjective indexing can be. Five people indexing the same page may come up with five different indexes. Am I right on this?? I'm trying not to get discouraged. I often include some entries which differ from the instructor's or another student. Yet, I don't feel as if I am wrong, but instead I am demonstrating a different perspective. I guess I'm just looking for some encouragement. Am I on the right track or totally off base with these thoughts?? Should I be trying to come up with exactly the same entries as my instructor? Thanks for lending an ear! Joanne mcnulty@montana.com P.S.--Hey, is there anybody out there who lives in Montana???? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 00:09:12 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Larry Harrison Subject: Re: INFO: Armaggedon Approaches On Sun, 5 Jul 1998 18:03:40 -0400 Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> wrote: >SNIP<.... >As one reviewer of the Yourdon's book remarked [approx], "The Y2000 >situation is way, way more serious than most people could imagine." >That is an understatement; I have not yet finished both books, but I >am seriously beginning to consider moving to a rural area sometime >next year if I can afford it. This is NOT a joke. Even though a total >cultural or societal meltdown probably will not occur, at least in >the USA, all of us, you, me, your friends and loved ones, perhaps even >your job WILL be affected if only for a few days. Here are the book >titles with a few quotes and comments: I have followed this impending crisis in COMPUTERWORLD (a major industry trade weekly) for a couple of years now. The recent turn of events is that some high-tech types, burned out after failing to convince their management to get cracking years ago, are now turning "survivalist": getting their financial assets in hard currency/goods, and buying land, weapons, canned goods and generators. >Yourdon and Yourdon, "Time bomb 2000: what the year 2000 crisis means to >you!" 1998. Prentice-Hall. ISBN: 0-13-095284-2 > >....Within each section the authors give "fall-back" >advice for personal evaluation: 2-3 days, 1 month, 1 year, and 10 years. >Included are many Internet references and other resources..... For those who may not know, Ed Yourdon is one of the pioneers and pillars of the software engineering discipline. Managers and programmers working with huge mainframe systems have been reading his work and attending his workshops for decades. This is no obscure doomsayer. The Yourdons' recommendations for evaluating and reducing your personal risks due to this situation are (according to the COMPUTERWORLD reviewer) very good. I plan to get it. >Should you wish to check your own computer systems I will also post >the simple instructions for checking your motherboard and BIOS compliance. >If you have $75 to spend, I heartily suggest that you buy a copy of >CHECK 2000, from Greenwich Mean Time..... If you have a Mac, don't bother. Their hardware and operating system have been Y2000 compliant for years now. (You'll have to worry as the year approaches 2040, though.) Even on a Mac, there is still the question of all your applications. For example, rumor has it that the Office 98 series contains the first edition of Microsoft Word which is fully compliant, on any operating system. The other interesting item from COMPUTERWORLD is that you cannot presume that a brand new Wintel computer bought in 1998 is compliant. Corporate buyers continue to find failing BIOS's installed in some brand new Pentium II computers. You just have to test 'em. Larry Harrison (larryh@millcomm.com) Secretary/Treasurer, Twin Cities Chapter American Society of Indexers *What's indexing? ---> http://asindexing.org/indfaq.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 05:06:57 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Munro Subject: List of Publishers Carol, The ASI Newsletter Vol 6/No 2 March/April 1998 (ISSN 1064-1211) answers your question at page 25. Good luck! Richard Munro ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 05:23:55 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: subjectivity in indexing In-Reply-To: <199807070438.AAA27073@mail3.bellsouth.net> Your suspicion is absolutely right: Five different indexers won't produce identical indexes from the same pages, any more than five different authors could have written identical books on the same topic. The key here is "write." You don't *compile* an index; the computer software does that. You *write* an index. And if you ever have the chance, go to a seminar or workshop of the sort Do Mi teaches, and see what happens when a roomful of indexers do a quick job on identical text. It's a revelation.... Having said that, of course, one would hope that five indexers with adequate training and a certain amount of experience would come up with *similar* heads and subheads, that all would be "complete," and that all would follow a consistent style! Montana? That's somewhere up there in the frozen, mountainous North, idn't it? (...he said from hot, steamy Baton Rouge...). Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds > -----Original Message----- > From: Indexer's Discussion Group > [mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Joanne and Moose > McNulty > Sent: Monday, July 06, 1998 11:39 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: subjectivity in indexing > > > Hi all!! > > I'm just starting to work on some indexing exercises as I am a beginner. > I'm realizing how subjective indexing can be. Five people indexing the > same page may come up with five different indexes. Am I right on this?? > I'm trying not to get discouraged. I often include some entries which > differ from the instructor's or another student. Yet, I don't feel as if I > am wrong, but instead I am demonstrating a different perspective. I guess > I'm just looking for some encouragement. Am I on the right track or > totally off base with these thoughts?? Should I be trying to come up with > exactly the same entries as my instructor? > > Thanks for lending an ear! > > Joanne > mcnulty@montana.com > > P.S.--Hey, is there anybody out there who lives in Montana???? > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 07:15:46 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: list of publishers Don't forget Writer's Digest's huge thing they publish every year-what's it called?. It's mostly magazine publishers but has a very large book section. And don't forget the phone books for Boston, NYC, Chicago, LA, etc. which the phone company will send you free just for asking. And if you do an internet search on Publishers, you come up with several hundreds, and each one describes its catalog so you can see if they publish what you like, and they also usually have a jobs section where they will post if they need freelancers. If anyone else has tips and tricks for finding publishers, will you send them to me? I need fodder for another tips and tricks column. I dropped the ball for the July/August issue but am starting to think about the next go-round. If you send me a tip (for anything, not just for publishers) will you include something indicated that I may use your tip and whether or not you want credit for it. Thanks! Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 07:44:02 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marlene London Subject: ERRORS, ERRORS, ... AND MORE ERRORS Page E-1 of the June 29 issue of "The New York Times" has an article about harried editors and copyeditors, which may explain why there are gazillions of faux pas (some very serious ones) in most of the books I index. Yes, I do query the editor via e-mail, fax, or snail mail. They seem to be grateful, as well they should! No, I haven't gotten any extra money from doing so, but then I haven't asked. As one of my friends says, "You don't ask, you don't get." I'm just so darned compulsive, and I want any book I'm working on to be the best it can be. Perhaps I should market myself as a high-priced "personal editor" which the article discusses. Hmmm... Marlene London Profindex@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 08:42:02 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Annette Boehmer Subject: Re: Marketing to E-mail Dick Evans says: *I have printed stationery as well as a professionally-designed logo. The *design work cost about $300. *I feel that if you are going to run a business you need to present a *business-like face to the world. I found a company that does logos for small businesses starting at $159 http://www.1800mylogo.com (mine is at /BooksEnd/ with info to be added). This does not cover any set-up fees for printing, although they do offer the service. Annette Boehmer BooksEnd@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 08:59:57 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: list of publishers In-Reply-To: <199807071116.HAA22242@camel5.mindspring.com> At 07:15 AM 7/7/98 -0400, you wrote: > > If anyone else has tips and tricks for finding publishers, will you send > them to me? There is also something called an SIC (Standard Industrial Classification) code that is useful. The SIC code is a four-digit number used by the government to classify all the businesses in the U.S. You can find a list of SIC codes at your local library. Many of the CD-based phone directories on the market allow you to search and list their contents by SIC code. Some also include a list of SIC codes and their meanings, so you could bypass a trip to the library. For instance, perhaps the general SIC for publishers is 27xx. Then perhaps the code for publishers of computer book is 2761, cookbooks 2783, medical texts 2719, etc. Beware, though, that not all industries bearing the appropriate SIC are potential clients. Kinko's (the copy service), for instance, is classified as a publisher. However, having a list of names in a particular SIC group is a good place to start. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 09:28:55 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Larry.Baker@GALE.COM Subject: List of publishers The big two that I'm aware of -- and I realize one of 'em will sound self-serving, so I apologize in advance -- are "Literary Market Place," published by R.R. Bowker (that's the bible I was introduced to when I went to the Denver Publishing Institute) and "Publishers Directory," published by, er, um, Gale Research. The strength of LMP is its detailed lists of people at companies -- presidents, top editors, marketing people, etc. It covers the basic publishers but doesn't get into many small publishers. "Publishers Directory" covers about 20,000 U.S. and Canadian big and small publishers AND includes geographic and subject indexes. So if you're interested in only, say, Vermont publishers or publishers of sports titles, the indexes will be appealing to you. Larry Baker Larry.Baker@gale.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 09:45:31 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Anne Day Subject: Re: Attrition Rate for USDA Course Here's my opinion concerning the high drop-out rate for the USDA Basic Indexing Course. I'm wondering if anyone else has shared my experience. Even though I've been indexing occasionally for a couple of years, I decided I would benefit from some formal education so I registered for the USDA course. When I got my packet of course materials a few weeks ago, the Indexing chapter of the Chicago Manual of Style was missing. Interestingly, a postcard was included with instructions to mail it back if any materials were missing (as if they KNEW I wouldn't receive everything I needed?). So I sent it back and the CMS chapter arrived about a week later. In the meantime, I attempted to read the large packet of peripheral info about indexing, which was comprised of copied software pamplets, printouts from INDEX-L discusssions (several years old), and info collected from various other sources. But no one had even bothered to retype the information to make it more legible, or to summarize it, or to update it (recommendations for computer equipment were from 2- and 3-year-old INDEX-L posts). Instead, someone had simply stapled together page after page of lengthy discussions, which had obviously been xeroxed over and over as needed. I enrolled in the course to improve my professionalism as an indexer, yet I immediately had reservations about the professionalism of those running this course. Finally, having decided to proceed with the course after receiving all my materials (after all, the content appears worthwhile), I began reading the course booklet. While reading the introduction, I quickly found that 4 pages were missing (other pages had been duplicated by mistake). Since these were non-consecutive pages, I felt pretty confident that I was only missing some background info that I could proceed without. Anxious to get started (since I've heard it takes a while to get lessons graded and returned), I moved on to Lesson 1. I spent several hours over the weekend completing the reading assignments, but when I began answering the questions, I found that I was missing a page of the Question and Answer section! Another page had been duplicated, and of course I couldn't mail an incomplete assignment. I sent an e-mail inquiry to the address listed in the USDA Course Catalog (included with my course materials), but the message was returned to me undeliverable. My next plan is to go the website and see if I can find some different contact info there. I'm sorry to have gone into such detail here, but in my mind, this course is not administered by the USDA in a professional manner (though it's targeted at would-be professional indexers), and unless I'm the only one to have encountered these problems, this no doubt contributes to the high attrition rate. I'm hoping I can get a new course booklet within a week or two so I can complete lesson 1 and just get STARTED. Otherwise, I'm going to try to get a refund and check out some of the non-USDA educational options. Thanks for listening, Anne -------------------------------------------- Anne B. Day Editorial Production Manager ph: (215) 731-2227 Professional Jeweler magazine fax: (215) 545-9629 Bond Communications aday@professionaljeweler.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 10:14:53 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Organization: Crossover Information Services Subject: AOL procedure for receiving files Hello, all. I no longer have an AOL account, but I have been sending some file attachments (Microsoft Word files) to people with AOL accounts, and some are having trouble receiving them while others are not. Could some kind AOL'er post brief but complete directions for receiving and downloading attached Word files? I'll include your directions when I send these files to others on AOL. Thanks so much. -- Ann Norcross Crossover Information Services (919) 852-0042 mailto:norcross@ipass.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 08:19:52 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Toni Williams TPG/SG Subject: Re: Attrition Rate for USDA Course I am fairly new to this list and am also planning to enroll in the USDA indexing course very soon. Needless to say, the content of this post is very disturbing to me. I hope people who have responses will post to the list. Thank you. Toni > -----Original Message----- > From: Anne Day [SMTP:ADay@PROFESSIONALJEWELER.COM] > Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 1998 2:46 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Attrition Rate for USDA Course > > Here's my opinion concerning the high drop-out rate for the USDA Basic > Indexing Course. I'm wondering if anyone else has shared my > experience. > > Even though I've been indexing occasionally for a couple of years, I > decided I would benefit from some formal education so I registered for > the USDA course. When I got my packet of course materials a few weeks > ago, the Indexing chapter of the Chicago Manual of Style was missing. > Interestingly, a postcard was included with instructions to mail it > back > if any materials were missing (as if they KNEW I wouldn't receive > everything I needed?). So I sent it back and the CMS chapter arrived > about a week later. > > In the meantime, I attempted to read the large packet of peripheral > info > about indexing, which was comprised of copied software pamplets, > printouts from INDEX-L discusssions (several years old), and info > collected from various other sources. But no one had even bothered to > retype the information to make it more legible, or to summarize it, or > to update it (recommendations for computer equipment were from 2- and > 3-year-old INDEX-L posts). Instead, someone had simply stapled > together > page after page of lengthy discussions, which had obviously been > xeroxed > over and over as needed. I enrolled in the course to improve my > professionalism as an indexer, yet I immediately had reservations > about > the professionalism of those running this course. > > Finally, having decided to proceed with the course after receiving all > my materials (after all, the content appears worthwhile), I began > reading the course booklet. While reading the introduction, I quickly > found that 4 pages were missing (other pages had been duplicated by > mistake). Since these were non-consecutive pages, I felt pretty > confident that I was only missing some background info that I could > proceed without. Anxious to get started (since I've heard it takes a > while to get lessons graded and returned), I moved on to Lesson 1. I > spent several hours over the weekend completing the reading > assignments, > but when I began answering the questions, I found that I was missing a > page of the Question and Answer section! Another page had been > duplicated, and of course I couldn't mail an incomplete assignment. I > sent an e-mail inquiry to the address listed in the USDA Course > Catalog > (included with my course materials), but the message was returned to > me > undeliverable. My next plan is to go the website and see if I can find > some different contact info there. > > I'm sorry to have gone into such detail here, but in my mind, this > course is not administered by the USDA in a professional manner > (though > it's targeted at would-be professional indexers), and unless I'm the > only one to have encountered these problems, this no doubt contributes > to the high attrition rate. I'm hoping I can get a new course booklet > within a week or two so I can complete lesson 1 and just get STARTED. > Otherwise, I'm going to try to get a refund and check out some of the > non-USDA educational options. > > Thanks for listening, > Anne > > -------------------------------------------- > Anne B. Day > Editorial Production Manager ph: (215) 731-2227 > Professional Jeweler magazine fax: (215) 545-9629 > Bond Communications > aday@professionaljeweler.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 11:42:20 -0400 Reply-To: kamm@sky-software.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kamm Y. Schreiner" Subject: Re: AOL procedure for receiving files In-Reply-To: <199807071419.KAA13324@mx01.erols.com> Yes, please post to index-l. I have customers (almost always AOL accounts) that have trouble receiving files (of any type) from me too. It is frustrating for both of us. Sincerely, Kamm Schreiner SKY Software 4675 York Rd #1 Lineboro, MD 21102 email: kamm@sky-software.com web: http://www.sky-software.com phone: 800-776-0137 or 410-374-3484 fax: 410-374-3484 .I no longer have an AOL account, but I have been sending some .file attachments (Microsoft Word files) to people with AOL .accounts, and some are having trouble receiving them while others .are not. Could some kind AOL'er post brief but complete .directions for receiving and downloading attached Word files? .I'll include your directions when I send these files to others on .AOL. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 11:43:44 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pamela Venneman Subject: USDA Course I completed the USDA course last fall. I had to call 3 times to get the final sent to my proctor. I also discovered, when e-mailing about why a question was marked wrong, that my instructor had one version of a lesson and I had an update which was different. (Instructors receive only an answer sheet from students, so she had no way of knowing.) She e-mailed the USDA director immediately, but who knows how long that mistake had been around. Of course it takes on average 3 weeks for your graded lesson to be "received" from your instructor, processed, and sent to you. It would be helpful if they would allow the instructor to mail the original lesson to the USDA office and a copy to you at the same time to help speed the turnaround time. My instructor would sometimes e-mail comments/grades to me during the wait. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 10:46:34 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mark and Kay Popp Subject: Re: Attrition Rate for USDA Course I am in the middle of the USDA course and so far, have not had any problems. Kay mkpopp@wcnet.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 11:59:35 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: TShere7566@AOL.COM Subject: Side dishes (was Cookbook references) Susan wrote: What is a side dish? Webster's dictionary says that a side dish is: a food >served separately along with the main course. So what is the main course (it >doesn't say) is it the main dish. Is Webster saying that side dishes are >substance dishes like potatoes and greens or are they things like pickles, >celery, onions etc. that go along side the main course. Does the main course >include the usually two substantial veggies like potatoes and greens etc. If >side dishes are the vegetables like potatoes and greens what is the pickles, >sliced onions, sliced tomatoes etc. that are served with the meal...are they >accompaniments? > Susan, I'm an experienced, ex-professional cook and now cookbook indexer (I've done 9 of them in the last year). Thought I'd address your specific question. My opinion is that because of the changing ways we eat and compose our meals, the concept of "side dishes" has become slippery and hard to pin down, and can't necessarily be defined as neatly as you might wish. I think it has lost its place among the "universal categories" of cookbook indexes (things like meat, soups, desserts). If the cookbook author uses "side dishes" as a category (either a chapter title, or refers frequently to dishes as "side dishes" in headnotes), then I think "side dishes" is an appropriate main entry for the index. Otherwise, I don't think it's very useful; people will be more likely to look for such recipes under "vegetables" or more specific terms like "potatoes" or "polenta". (And I don't think anyone would look for "accompaniments" in a cookbook index unless the author had used it as a chapter title or something.) "Universally-accepted" categories *are* important in cookbook indexes--but every book is still different. If you need a term to group all such dishes in the index, look to the author's language and the way he/she has organized the book for clues. Hope this helps-- Therese Shere ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 11:04:25 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Slebodnik, Maribeth B" Subject: Metadata article including indexes The Montague Institute has an article posted of a panel discussion that discusses metadata, including in that category back of the book indexing and Web indexing. It's at the following URL: http://www.montague.com/review/meta.html and it's brief but interesting. Includes comments from a database administrator at a publishing house, Pennwell Publishing. _^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^_ Maribeth Slebodnik Mallinckrodt, Inc. mbslebo@mkg.com Phone 314-654-3315 Fax 314-654-7385 _^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^_ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 09:09:50 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Toni Williams TPG/SG Subject: Re: USDA Course > But do you feel it was worth taking? Did it enhance your pursuit of a > career in indexing? Thanks. > > Toni > > -----Original Message----- > From: Pamela Venneman [SMTP:Psvenndex@AOL.COM] > Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 1998 4:44 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: USDA Course > > I completed the USDA course last fall. I had to call 3 times to > get the final > sent to my proctor. I also discovered, when e-mailing about why > a question > was marked wrong, that my instructor had one version of a lesson > and I had an > update which was different. (Instructors receive only an answer > sheet from > students, so she had no way of knowing.) She e-mailed the USDA > director > immediately, but who knows how long that mistake had been > around. Of course it > takes on average 3 weeks for your graded lesson to be "received" > from your > instructor, processed, and sent to you. It would be helpful if > they would > allow the instructor to mail the original lesson to the USDA > office and a copy > to you at the same time to help speed the turnaround time. My > instructor > would sometimes e-mail comments/grades to me during the wait. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 12:24:14 -0400 Reply-To: brocindx@catskill.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kevin A. Broccoli" Organization: Broccoli Information Management Subject: Re: Attrition Rate for USDA Course Toni Williams TPG/SG wrote: > I am fairly new to this list and am also planning to enroll in the USDA > indexing course very soon. Needless to say, the content of this post is > very disturbing to me. I hope people who have responses will post to the > list. Thank you. > > Toni > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Anne Day [SMTP:ADay@PROFESSIONALJEWELER.COM] > > Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 1998 2:46 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > > Subject: Re: Attrition Rate for USDA Course > > > > Here's my opinion concerning the high drop-out rate for the USDA Basic > > Indexing Course. I'm wondering if anyone else has shared my > > experience. > > > > Even though I've been indexing occasionally for a couple of years, I > > decided I would benefit from some formal education so I registered for > > the USDA course. When I got my packet of course materials a few weeks > > ago, the Indexing chapter of the Chicago Manual of Style was missing. > > Interestingly, a postcard was included with instructions to mail it > > back > > if any materials were missing (as if they KNEW I wouldn't receive > > everything I needed?). So I sent it back and the CMS chapter arrived > > about a week later. > > > > In the meantime, I attempted to read the large packet of peripheral > > info > > about indexing, which was comprised of copied software pamplets, > > printouts from INDEX-L discusssions (several years old), and info > > collected from various other sources. But no one had even bothered to > > retype the information to make it more legible, or to summarize it, or > > to update it (recommendations for computer equipment were from 2- and > > 3-year-old INDEX-L posts). Instead, someone had simply stapled > > together > > page after page of lengthy discussions, which had obviously been > > xeroxed > > over and over as needed. I enrolled in the course to improve my > > professionalism as an indexer, yet I immediately had reservations > > about > > the professionalism of those running this course. > > > > Finally, having decided to proceed with the course after receiving all > > my materials (after all, the content appears worthwhile), I began > > reading the course booklet. While reading the introduction, I quickly > > found that 4 pages were missing (other pages had been duplicated by > > mistake). Since these were non-consecutive pages, I felt pretty > > confident that I was only missing some background info that I could > > proceed without. Anxious to get started (since I've heard it takes a > > while to get lessons graded and returned), I moved on to Lesson 1. I > > spent several hours over the weekend completing the reading > > assignments, > > but when I began answering the questions, I found that I was missing a > > page of the Question and Answer section! Another page had been > > duplicated, and of course I couldn't mail an incomplete assignment. I > > sent an e-mail inquiry to the address listed in the USDA Course > > Catalog > > (included with my course materials), but the message was returned to > > me > > undeliverable. My next plan is to go the website and see if I can find > > some different contact info there. > > > > I'm sorry to have gone into such detail here, but in my mind, this > > course is not administered by the USDA in a professional manner > > (though > > it's targeted at would-be professional indexers), and unless I'm the > > only one to have encountered these problems, this no doubt contributes > > to the high attrition rate. I'm hoping I can get a new course booklet > > within a week or two so I can complete lesson 1 and just get STARTED. > > Otherwise, I'm going to try to get a refund and check out some of the > > non-USDA educational options. > > > > Thanks for listening, > > Anne > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > Anne B. Day > > Editorial Production Manager ph: (215) 731-2227 > > Professional Jeweler magazine fax: (215) 545-9629 > > Bond Communications > > aday@professionaljeweler.com I can understand why you would be upset. I took the course and everything went smoothly. Sometimes numerous bad things happen to the same individual. :) I know that won't make you feel any better, but I think if you stick w/ it, things can only get better. Kevin A. Broccoli Broccoli Information Mangement brocindx@catskill.net http://www.bim.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 09:54:32 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: BWI Subject: Re: Attrition Rate for USDA Course In-Reply-To: <199807071519.IAA24627@smtp1.teleport.com> >I am fairly new to this list and am also planning to enroll in the USDA >indexing course very soon. Needless to say, the content of this post is >very disturbing to me. I hope people who have responses will post to the >list. Thank you. Hi Toni - I'm a USDA drop out. There. I've said it. It was simply too slow for me - I thought I could speed the process up, but found I couldn't so I just moved ahead on my own. But I emphasize that the lessons led me to read Mulvaney's excellent book with the kind of attention that helped me to understand indexing. Another way of looking at it is that the course helps one realize what one *doesn't* know, which is at least as valuable as what it teaches, because then one knows what to look for. I still have a lot of questions that the scope of Mulvaney's book didn't cover, but that's where Index-L (you're such a wonderful group of people!!), the university library, my reference books, and on-line search engines come in. Martha Back Words Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 09:54:15 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J. Naomi Linzer" Subject: Re: Attrition Rate for USDA Course In-Reply-To: <199807071349.GAA22895@neti.saber.net> Anne, How unfortunate to have gotten started off on such shakey footing with the USDA Graduate School. You must have gotten a package assembled on a Monday after a wild and crazy weekend! I signed up in January of this year, received all materials in toto and have been proceding smoothly through the coursework. My instructor lets me mail her my lessons directly and she forwards them on to D.C. after reading and grading them. I suggest you perservere. This certainly sounds like some kind of test (not to sound too woo woo) and perhaps things will straighten out as the aspects and whatever else rules these things straightens out! All the best, Naomi ******************************************************************************** Ms. J. Naomi Linzer, M.A. POB 1341 Redway, CA 95560 (707) 923-4361 jnlinzer@saber.net * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "And in such indexes, although small pricks to their subsequent volumes, there is seen the baby figure of the giant mass of things to come at large." William Shakespeare: "Troilus and Cressida" ******************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 09:59:13 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J. Naomi Linzer" Subject: Re: USDA Course In-Reply-To: <199807071545.IAA27273@neti.saber.net> Pamela, Would you mention what lesson this error was in? I am presently taking the course and would like to look out for this. Thanks. Naomi I also discovered, when e-mailing about why a question >was marked wrong, that my instructor had one version of a lesson and I had an >update which was different. (Instructors receive only an answer sheet from >students, so she had no way of knowing.) She e-mailed the USDA director >immediately, but who knows how long that mistake had been around. ******************************************************************************** Ms. J. Naomi Linzer, M.A. POB 1341 Redway, CA 95560 (707) 923-4361 jnlinzer@saber.net * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "And in such indexes, although small pricks to their subsequent volumes, there is seen the baby figure of the giant mass of things to come at large." William Shakespeare: "Troilus and Cressida" ******************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 12:03:38 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Erika Millen Subject: sub-subentries (long) Hi everyone. I was hoping to get some second opinions from other indexers, especially from those of you who index technical/computer material. I've been reading the section on double entries in "Indexing A-Z" (Wellisch) and wondered how the rest of you handle sub-subentries. The example used in the book is lungs blood vessels cancer chemotherapy diagnosis surgery Welisch recommends double-posting this as either cancer bladder lungs, see lungs stomach or cancer, see names of organs (preferred) and not as cancer bladder lungs chemotherapy diagnosis surgery stomach Here's a quick blurb from Wellisch: "The drawbacks of this method [see references] are (a) that a user, instead of finding all modifications of a main heading in one place, is forced to look up second-level modifications in another place which may be annoying and is in any case more time-sonsuming, thus less user-friendly; and (b) that the index will be somewhat longer. An indexer must therefore weigh carefully which method is the more convenient and economical one from the point of view of the user -- a matter that will again largely depend on the nature of the text and on the habits of users. As mentioned above, lawyers find mothing wrong with multiple levels of subheadings, probably because time is of the essence for them more than it is for most other index users." (p. 150) I have to admit that I've been including the sub-subentries in both locations, since length of the index is not an issue for my publisher. (Actually, longer is better.) What do you think? Is it better indexing practice to double-post the subheadings or to include "see" references to the main heading? Thanks in advance, Erika Millen Indianapolis ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 10:04:38 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joshua Coates Subject: Re: INFO: Armaggedon Approaches It's hype. Sure, there will be some problems, but the world won't end. Besides, there is not much you can do about it anyway. I'm sure the new years day in 2000 we'll read in the paper about a few big systems that did strange things, but I doubt that it will affect our lives much at all. Where did you get this stuff? Are these indexer people? -Josh -----Original Message----- From: Larry Harrison [SMTP:larryh@MILLCOMM.COM] Sent: Monday, July 06, 1998 10:09 PM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: Re: INFO: Armaggedon Approaches On Sun, 5 Jul 1998 18:03:40 -0400 Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> wrote: >SNIP<.... >As one reviewer of the Yourdon's book remarked [approx], "The Y2000 >situation is way, way more serious than most people could imagine." >That is an understatement; I have not yet finished both books, but I >am seriously beginning to consider moving to a rural area sometime >next year if I can afford it. This is NOT a joke. Even though a total >cultural or societal meltdown probably will not occur, at least in >the USA, all of us, you, me, your friends and loved ones, perhaps even >your job WILL be affected if only for a few days. Here are the book >titles with a few quotes and comments: I have followed this impending crisis in COMPUTERWORLD (a major industry trade weekly) for a couple of years now. The recent turn of events is that some high-tech types, burned out after failing to convince their management to get cracking years ago, are now turning "survivalist": getting their financial assets in hard currency/goods, and buying land, weapons, canned goods and generators. >Yourdon and Yourdon, "Time bomb 2000: what the year 2000 crisis means to >you!" 1998. Prentice-Hall. ISBN: 0-13-095284-2 > >....Within each section the authors give "fall-back" >advice for personal evaluation: 2-3 days, 1 month, 1 year, and 10 years. >Included are many Internet references and other resources..... For those who may not know, Ed Yourdon is one of the pioneers and pillars of the software engineering discipline. Managers and programmers working with huge mainframe systems have been reading his work and attending his workshops for decades. This is no obscure doomsayer. The Yourdons' recommendations for evaluating and reducing your personal risks due to this situation are (according to the COMPUTERWORLD reviewer) very good. I plan to get it. >Should you wish to check your own computer systems I will also post >the simple instructions for checking your motherboard and BIOS compliance. >If you have $75 to spend, I heartily suggest that you buy a copy of >CHECK 2000, from Greenwich Mean Time..... If you have a Mac, don't bother. Their hardware and operating system have been Y2000 compliant for years now. (You'll have to worry as the year approaches 2040, though.) Even on a Mac, there is still the question of all your applications. For example, rumor has it that the Office 98 series contains the first edition of Microsoft Word which is fully compliant, on any operating system. The other interesting item from COMPUTERWORLD is that you cannot presume that a brand new Wintel computer bought in 1998 is compliant. Corporate buyers continue to find failing BIOS's installed in some brand new Pentium II computers. You just have to test 'em. Larry Harrison (larryh@millcomm.com) Secretary/Treasurer, Twin Cities Chapter American Society of Indexers *What's indexing? ---> http://asindexing.org/indfaq.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 10:19:24 -0700 Reply-To: Elinor Lindheimer Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: Re: cookbook indexing Therese Shere wrote: >"Universally-accepted" categories *are* important in cookbook indexes--but >every book is still different. If you need a term to group all such dishes in >the index, look to the author's language and the way he/she has organized the >book for clues. She is right. Cookbook indexing is like any other indexing, in that you must look for clues in the text itself to guide you in organizing your index. Other posters have recommended reading many cookbook indexes, which is a good idea, but there is more. You must have a cook's eye and ear to make the decisions required to write a usable index. You must be able to make those decisions quickly and consistently, and you must also have an indexer's knack for using words succinctly and for creating logical cross references. Finally, you need a cross-cultural, historical sensibility to see how "universally-accepted categories" fit into the cookbook you are indexing--or not. I takes more thought than you would think! Elinor Lindheimer elinorl@mcn.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 15:10:52 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Shirley K Warkentin Subject: Re: Marketing by E-mail On Mon, 6 Jul 1998 11:46:50 -0700 Kai Wyrill writes: >Shirley wrote "Out of the six e-mail queries I sent five days >ago, >two came back undeliverable, two wanted my information, and two I >haven't heard from yet. > > >That's an excellent return rate, Shirley. I think a "good" return on >direct >(snail) mail is somewhere around 2%. > >If it's not against list rules, would you post your URL? > >Thanks, > >kai >kai.wyrill@aol.com > Sure. http://home.earthlink.net/~warkentin4/ Shirley Warkentin Cornerstone Indexing BUILDING A BETTER BOOK! indexer@juno.com http://home.earthlink.net/~warkentin4 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 10:27:51 -0700 Reply-To: Elinor Lindheimer Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: Re: sub-subentries Erika writes that length is not a problem for her publisher, and I would say lucky Erika, and lucky those who use her indexes! Usually, cross referencing is done to keep an index a manageable size. Thus, all the subentries under "Cancer" would refer to cancer in general, and the reader would be directed to ^See also^ ^specific organs; specific types of cancer^ or some such cross-reference. However, there may be a fine line between thoroughness and overcrowding, and if the sub-subentries are lengthy and numerous, it might be more elegant to direct the reader to the main entry and subentries. Law indexes are not known for elegance. Freelancers might run into trouble if they are charging by the entry or by the line--publishers might prefer to see cross referencing, because it would cost them less. It could also be a time thing--how close is the deadline, and can you afford the extra keystrokes to create the additional entries? Yes, I think Erika is lucky! Elinor Lindheimer elinorl@mcn.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 10:29:39 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary S Stephenson Subject: Re: list of publishers In-Reply-To: <199807071256.IAA03500@camel7.mindspring.com> This is a bit off the thread, but in regard to the note from Dick about the SIC codes, these codes are about to be replaced by a whole new set of codes [let's hear it for the bureaucracy]. The new codes are called NACIS. The complete comparative SIC/NAICS list of codes is available from the U.S. Bureau of the Census Web site. Go to URL http://www.census.gov (click on Subjects A-Z, then click on N). Susie Stephenson SLAIS/UBC Vancouver mss@unixg.ubc.ca On Tue, 7 Jul 1998, Richard Evans wrote: > At 07:15 AM 7/7/98 -0400, you wrote: > > > > If anyone else has tips and tricks for finding publishers, will you send > > them to me? > > There is also something called an SIC (Standard Industrial > Classification) code that is useful. The SIC code is a four-digit > number used by the government to classify all the businesses in the U.S. > You can find a list of SIC codes at >your local library. Many of the > CD-based phone directories on the market allow you to search and list > their contents by SIC code. Some also include a list of >SIC codes and their meanings, so you could bypass a trip to the library. [snip] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 12:27:36 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Susan D. Hernandez" Subject: Re: Attrition Rate for USDA Course I took the USDA course last year and I did have some administrative problems. It took 4 weeks and 3 phone calls just to get the course catalog, and I was very annoyed by the slow response rate of the school. I worked ahead alot and practiced on my own most of the time. My instructor graded my lessons within a week of receiving them, but the school pipeline added two or three weeks to most lessons. I still managed to finish it in 4 1/2 months, though. I waited for my "diploma" to come before I added the course to my resume. Then, while I did marketing calls, I discovered that none of the publishers (editors, production managers) I spoke with had ever heard of the course! But taking it did give me some practical experience, good feedback, and some confidence. Plus, my first indexing job required a bid, so that lesson came in handy. I think the course is a decent starting point, along with research and self study, for beginning indexing. But I decided not to take the advanced course because I couldn't stand the slow response rate. (I also found it very interesting that the final didn't include a course critique sheet. The course director could learn alot about how the students view the course, and ways to improve it, if she would bother to ask.) - Susan *************************************** Susan Danzi Hernandez BookEnd Indexing susanhernandez@juno.com bookend@sprynet.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 10:34:28 -0700 Reply-To: Elinor Lindheimer Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: Re: Attrition Rate for USDA Course People posting on Index-L about the USDA course are generally those who have stuck with it, and undoubtedly those who succeeded or will succeed in becoming indexers. I think the high attrition rate is attributable more to people realizing they are just not cut out for indexing than to the administrative errors or delays that have been mentioned here. Indexing sounds like a good idea, but when you get into the nitty gritty, it's hard work that takes a particular kind of mind and personality. The USDA curriculum is excellent, and someone who can't "get it" will be weeded out, usually by self-selection. Elinor Lindheimer elinorl@mcn.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 13:29:46 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Organization: Crossover Information Services Subject: Re: Attrition Rate for USDA Course Toni wrote: > > >I am fairly new to this list and am also planning to enroll in the USDA > >indexing course very soon. Needless to say, the content of this post is > >very disturbing to me. I hope people who have responses will post to the > >list. Thank you. And then Martha wrote: > Hi Toni - I'm a USDA drop out. There. I've said it. OK, as long as we're all coming out of the closet... I dropped out too. Actually, I never started. Paid the money, got the stuff, read the books (as Martha says, it did get me to read Mulvaney in more depth) but was too busy being an indexing apprentice and indexing books to actually DO the course. I regret the money spent, and I regret not getting the benefit of the course, because I've heard lots of people say lots of good things about it, but... there you have it. And yes, I know I had a year or more to complete the course, and could extend for another $50.00 or something, but... way more time than that has already passed :-). -- Ann Norcross Crossover Information Services (919) 852-0042 mailto:norcross@ipass.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 10:38:52 -0700 Reply-To: Elinor Lindheimer Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: Re: Side dishes (was Cookbook references) Therese, Your post was great! I am so sorry I keep not coming to meetings and thus keep not seeing you. Seattle was hopeless for spending time...! I just want to say hi, and hope to be able to get together sometime or another! Now--enough email. Time to get ready to work! Elinor Elinor Lindheimer elinorl@mcn.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 10:36:28 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: INFO: Armaggedon Approaches At 10:04 AM 7/7/1998 -0700, Joshua Coates wrote: >It's hype. Sure, there will be some problems, but the world won't end. >Besides, there is not much you can do about it anyway. I'm sure the new >years day in 2000 we'll read in the paper about a few big systems that did >strange things, but I doubt that it will affect our lives much at all. I agree that the world as we know it will not end on January 1, 2000...but I think the problem will affect you personally a lot more than you're allowing for. Your life will be affected if even one or two major banks have any serious problems with the Y2K problem. You may not be able to access funds through an ATM, payments may not be recorded, checks may not clear, and so on. Virtually everybody has dealings with a bank...we're all going to see some screwups. Keep cash on hand for such emergencies. Ditto for anybody who's traveling on an airline. Do you really want to trust that air traffic control computers have completely solved their Y2K problems and cheerfully hop on board on the magic day or thereabouts? Almost every system that we encounter on a daily basis is backed up or operated in some way by computers...and any failures in the chain will eventually work their way down to our level. Traffic signals, supermarket cash registers, even telephone and electric services can be (and probably WILL be) disrupted. I'm not panicking, but I'm making plans so that my family will have as few problems as possible. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 11:04:01 -0700 Reply-To: Elinor Lindheimer Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: Re: apology for misaddressed post My humble apologies to all for misaddressing the email to Therese. Elinor Lindheimer elinorl@mcn.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 11:32:35 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Armageddon My apologies! I forwarded the original Armageddon message to my son who works for Microsoft (yes, he is a computer scientist). His return message was meant for me, not the list! Sylvia Coates ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 14:41:15 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: INFO: Armaggedon Approaches In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19980707173628.00c0f61c@slonet.org> >I agree that the world as we know it will not end on January 1, 2000...but I >think the problem will affect you personally a lot more than you're allowing >for. > No, it will end on or about May 5, 2000, when the 5 inner planets align, causing hugh earthquakes, volcanoes, winds up to 2000 mph, tidal waves. If anyone wants ocean front property in Utah, now is the time to buy. Not that it will be worth much. And rendering the Y2K computer problem moot. Just food for thought. RR Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 15:10:19 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Michaud Subject: Re: Attrition Rate for USDA Course In-Reply-To: <199807071349.JAA17593@mx05.erols.com> For what it's worth, I am working on lesson 10 of the USDA course and, so far, have had none of the problems that Anne Day has described. Christine Michaud cmichaud@erols.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 20:23:34 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: E: Mail origin cannot be determined. Comments: E: Original tag data was -> Charles Anderson Subject: Re: Attrition Rate for USDA Course The recent spate of criticisms and comments regarding the USDA indexing course prompts me to ask a question that I have been considering for some time. I have been a professional (meaning I have been paid for every index I've done) free-lance indexer since 1972. I have kept as busy as I've wanted to be (given my alternate career as a librarian) over the years - in some years employing up to six sub-contractors and in other years just doing a few books a year. I started using a computer to index in 1982 using a program called <> (even published an article on it in "The Indexer." I used the MIS Compugramma program next and finally switched to Cindex when it first came out. I feel that I have a lot to offer in the way of advice,teaching and mentoring to would-be indexers, although none of it probably would substitute for putting "USDA Indexing Course" on a resume (but if editors have never heard of this, maybe it doesn't matter). I am wondering about the viability of offering my own indexing course, primarily handled through electronic means. That is, I would e-mail assignments as attachments, receive copy the same way, grade and comment on it, and e-mail it back (thus answering at least one criticism of the USDA course - the slowness). For those without internet accounts, we could use the US mail - sending and receiving floppy disks - but if you're reading this note, of course, the last sentence wouldn't apply. Initially, I have two questions: 1) Does this spark any interest among the subscribers; and 2) what would you be willing to pay for such a course (I have not idea what the USDA course costs - I never took it.) I have hesitated to raise this on Index-L because I don't want to violate any covenants regarding commercialization and would not post this to the list if there were any other way of reaching the largest number of interested parties. If any of you are interested, please reply off-list. To avoid any taint of commercialism, this will be the only post I will make on this subject on Index-L. Charles Anderson c.anderson.seattle@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 16:53:14 -0400 Reply-To: brocindx@catskill.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kevin A. Broccoli" Organization: Broccoli Information Management Subject: Re: Attrition Rate for USDA Course Charles: the USDA course is aprox. $281/ea course. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 16:50:57 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "S. Greenhouse" Subject: BOB vs database indexing personalities (was USDA) Here's a question stimulated by something Elinor said: > Indexing sounds like a good idea, but when you get into the nitty > gritty, it's hard work that takes a particular kind of mind and > personality. The USDA curriculum is excellent, and someone who can't > "get it" will be weeded out, usually by self-selection. I've been database indexing for a while, and every once in a blue moon, I try back-of-the-book (BOB) indexing. I find BOB much harder! Now, I'm fairly convinced I have a typical indexer personality (spices, books and music recordings are alphabetized; list keeping; commonplace books; linen and medicine closets arranged by category - I find the list of personality traits I've seen cropping up on Index-L scary and reassuring at the same time). The mental process for BOB indexing seems different to me, and I find it difficult to get in the mindset. Has anyone else experienced this? (Please be kind if you haven't.) Do you find, as an indexer, that one type of indexing - not subject matter, but actual style, easier? If you're not allowed subheads, is this an easier BOB index to build? Is database indexing easier? Is it because of the controlled vocabulary? I think it's harder, or you need more knowledge of the subject because you have to match terms or find close approximations. I find the relatively unlimited choices in BOB intimidating. How might this relate to the USDA course? Well, what if the folks who leave the USDA course are indexers at heart, but not the kind the USDA course is designed for? Not having actually taken it, I'm assuming it's designed for BOB training. Shelley Greenhouse greenhou@erols.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 14:12:13 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: AOL procedure for receiving files Dear Ann, I have had some clients with AOL accounts who have warned me that they frequently have problems receiving files. However, I send files which are generated by MACREX and they tell me that my files always come through just fine. I do not have an AOL account. I don't know for sure but perhaps it has something to do with the software you are using to generate your file? Sylvia Coates Ann Norcross wrote: > Hello, all. > > I no longer have an AOL account, but I have been sending some > file attachments (Microsoft Word files) to people with AOL > accounts, and some are having trouble receiving them while others > are not. Could some kind AOL'er post brief but complete > directions for receiving and downloading attached Word files? > I'll include your directions when I send these files to others on > AOL. > > Thanks so much. > -- > Ann Norcross > Crossover Information Services > (919) 852-0042 > mailto:norcross@ipass.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 14:13:37 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: BWI Subject: Re: Armageddon In-Reply-To: <199807071820.LAA17193@smtp4.teleport.com> Josh wrote >>It's hype. Sure, there will be some problems, but the world won't end. Besides, there is not much you can do about it anyway. I'm sure the new years day in 2000 we'll read in the paper about a few big systems that did strange things, but I doubt that it will affect our lives much at all. Where did you get this stuff? Are these indexer people?<< Then you wrote >My apologies! I forwarded the original Armageddon message to my son >who >works for Microsoft (yes, he is a computer scientist). His return >message was meant for me, not the list! Sylvia - that was WONDERFUL! Tell Josh he is a breath of fresh air! We all needed a good laugh at ourselves and he gave us that opportunity! Thank goodness for common sense. Martha Back Words Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 18:54:20 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Organization: Crossover Information Services Subject: Re: AOL procedure for receiving files Sylvia Coates wrote: > > Dear Ann, > > I have had some clients with AOL accounts who have warned me that they > frequently have problems receiving files. However, I send files which > are generated by MACREX and they tell me that my files always come > through just fine. I do not have an AOL account. I don't know for sure > but perhaps it has something to do with the software you are using to > generate your file? Thanks for your post, Sylvia. I guess I need to be a little more clear about the problem: This isn't about index files; just Microsoft Word .DOC files. I am sending these files to people with AOL accounts. Some people are having no problem saving the files and opening them in Word. Others are not able to do so. I don't have an AOL account, so I can't walk through the process of getting an email with an attachment, downloading that attachment, and saving it to disk. I'm hoping someone could write down those steps for my AOL users. I just don't remember what the commands, buttons, etc. are in AOL mail, so I can't tell my recipients exactly how to do it. Thanks for any help anyone could offer. Ann > > Sylvia Coates > > Ann Norcross wrote: > > > Hello, all. > > > > I no longer have an AOL account, but I have been sending some > > file attachments (Microsoft Word files) to people with AOL > > accounts, and some are having trouble receiving them while others > > are not. Could some kind AOL'er post brief but complete > > directions for receiving and downloading attached Word files? > > I'll include your directions when I send these files to others on > > AOL. > > > > Thanks so much. > > -- > > Ann Norcross -- Ann Norcross Crossover Information Services (919) 852-0042 mailto:norcross@ipass.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:17:18 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dawn Spencer Subject: Re: AOL procedure for receiving files In a message dated 98-07-07 19:13:04 EDT, you write: << I guess I need to be a little more clear about the problem: This isn't about index files; just Microsoft Word .DOC files. >> Have you checked versions of the software? Older versions of software are often not able to read newer versions. I only have problems with the docs when the version is a NEWER version than the one I have. Just one more opinion.... Dawn ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 18:56:30 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: AOL procedure for receiving files Hello, all-- Just thought I'd add a note. After my experience to date with sending files between systems I have settled upon using HTM, RTF or TXT formats. You nay recall my popular FONTMARK file a few months ago and that was sent as an HTM to all users with no problems reported. In that example, ONLY one or two recipients were on CompuServe, which is my preferred way of sending attachments even though I have an independent service as well [for the Internet]. Using the uuencoding system has also worked very well for sending images, programs, or other non-text material, but the user must of course have the decoding program. [Incidentally, I use a PC most of the time, but two of my friends are Mac users and we have been able to ship certain files back and forth as well.] Cheers, Dave T. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 18:56:28 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: INFO: Armaggedon Update The URL I quoted for Greenwich Mean Time was incorrect, as Rollie Littlewood has kindly pointed out [I omitted the "com"]. It is: http://www.gmt-2000.com/main.html Another source for Y2000 tools may also be found at Bill Cook's Resource Links: http://www.netcom.com/~wjcook/resource.html, and another possibly useful site is the General Services Administration site at http://www.itpolicy.gsa.gov/mks/yr2000/y2khome.htm [if you have an earlier URL for this part of the GSA site, this is the recently-upgraded address]. And don't forget the other party on August 22, 1999. On this date the Global Satellite Positioning System's clock rolls over to Week 0. Many banks use the timecode transmitted on the GPS system as their standard clock reference. Through an oversight by the GPS designers the GPS system can only count up to Week 1024 -- probably 1024 weeks after its inception date -- and then resets to 0 and starts counting again. The gumment has said to GPS users, paraphrased: "Make sure that your ground-based systems can be appropriately reset..." It should be an interesting week. Cheers, Dave T. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 16:21:28 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kai Wyrill Subject: Re: AOL procedure for receiving files Hi Ann, Good ol' aol. If you like, send me one of the problem files and let me see if I can figure it out. The problem could be: 1. recipient does not have Word 2. recipient has older version of Word 3. recipient's aol is corrupted 4. recipient's Word is corrupted 5. file got corrupted in transfer 6. you are on Mac, she is on PC 7. different versions of Windoze Interim suggestion: save as *.txt or *.rtf and see if recipient can open it. Typical instructions for processing attached files in aol mail: 1. Open the mail 2. Press Download (and select target directory) 3. Note filename.ext as it is downloading (I've never been able to open a winmail.dat file) 4. Open Word (if it is a *.doc), then File/Open filename OR double-click on filename to launch Word via that file Please let us know what finally works! kai From: Ann Norcross on 07/07/98 10:54 PM GMT Please respond to "Indexer's Discussion Group" To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L cc: (bcc: Kai Wyrill/Temporary Employee/RSS/Rockwell) Subject: Re: AOL procedure for receiving files Sylvia Coates wrote: > > Dear Ann, > > I have had some clients with AOL accounts who have warned me that they > frequently have problems receiving files. However, I send files which > are generated by MACREX and they tell me that my files always come > through just fine. I do not have an AOL account. I don't know for sure > but perhaps it has something to do with the software you are using to > generate your file? Thanks for your post, Sylvia. I guess I need to be a little more clear about the problem: This isn't about index files; just Microsoft Word .DOC files. I am sending these files to people with AOL accounts. Some people are having no problem saving the files and opening them in Word. Others are not able to do so. I don't have an AOL account, so I can't walk through the process of getting an email with an attachment, downloading that attachment, and saving it to disk. I'm hoping someone could write down those steps for my AOL users. I just don't remember what the commands, buttons, etc. are in AOL mail, so I can't tell my recipients exactly how to do it. Thanks for any help anyone could offer. Ann > > Sylvia Coates > > Ann Norcross wrote: > > > Hello, all. > > > > I no longer have an AOL account, but I have been sending some > > file attachments (Microsoft Word files) to people with AOL > > accounts, and some are having trouble receiving them while others > > are not. Could some kind AOL'er post brief but complete > > directions for receiving and downloading attached Word files? > > I'll include your directions when I send these files to others on > > AOL. > > > > Thanks so much. > > -- > > Ann Norcross -- Ann Norcross Crossover Information Services (919) 852-0042 mailto:norcross@ipass.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 16:42:01 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Keever Subject: Re: list of publishers In-Reply-To: <9807071116.AA32098@beta.tricity.wsu.edu> The ASI Web Page is probably the quickest way. Click on "Indexing Resources" and you get a dozen or so lists of different types of publishers. http://www.asindexing.org/publish.htm Sharon Keever On Tue, 7 Jul 1998, Rachel Rice wrote: > > And if you do an internet search on Publishers, you come up with several > hundreds, and each one describes its catalog so you can see if they publish > what you like, and they also usually have a jobs section where they will > post if they need freelancers. > > If anyone else has tips and tricks for finding publishers, will you send > them to me? I need fodder for another tips and tricks column. I dropped the > ball for the July/August issue but am starting to think about the next > go-round. If you send me a tip (for anything, not just for publishers) will > you include something indicated that I may use your tip and whether or not > you want credit for it. > > Thanks! > > Rachel Rice > Directions Unlimited Desktop Services > Indexing, editing, proofreading > http://homepages.together.net/~racric > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 20:13:26 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Y2K I am certain that computer-related problems will arise during the year 2000. However, I am not convinced that they will be of the magnitude that Yourdon and others envision. I feel that the greatest impact will be curtailment of the incomes of those who are now classifying themselves as Y2K consultants. I really feel this is a case of unnecessarily fanning the flames, both by the consultants and by the press who are, as usual, seeking the sensational. A small case in point is a report presented recently on the PBS News Hour. The reporter cited bank software, in particular, the speculation that loan payments would be problematic (about which I believe I also saw a citation on this list). Were this true, any 30-year mortgage loan taken out since 1971 would have had problems. The software has already been modified to account for the change in centuries. I know this because I worked as a financial software programmer for many years. Change to accommodate Y2K has been going on in the financial software community for longer than most people have had personal computers. Another bugaboo is credit cards. I currently have several whose expiration dates are in the 21st century. I have used these cards without being told that they have expired. Again, the problems have been anticipated and solved. A friend who is still a financial programmer recently told me about his institution's Y2K compliance audit, which was very rigorous. He then confided that he felt that most of the bases had been covered before the audit and that the institution spent a great deal of money unnecessarily. He also said (I have not confirmed this elsewhere) that Russia's approach to Y2K is to wait and see what happens. I believe that is at an extreme end of the pendulum swing and that the reaction in the United States is near the other end. I don't mean to recommend complacency. Personally, I plan to replace the one program I have which is not Y2K capable (a spreadsheet) and little else. If I had a PC rather than a Mac I would also do what I could to check for compliance. I do not, however, have a doomsday plan (for an excellent study in how the best laid plans are not good enough, read _Lucifer's Hammer_ by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle), nor do I plan to pay anyone to tell me how to prepare for a crisis I don't believe will occur. YMMV, Craig Brown ========================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing (314)352-9094 www.i1.net/~lastword ========================================== ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 20:32:04 -0700 Reply-To: Elinor Lindheimer Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: Re: USDA dropouts Diane, I didn't intend at all to imply that all those who drop out of the USDA course are not meant to be indexers--nor did I intend to soft-pedal the criticisms of the course's administrative difficulties. I'm sorry if I gave that impression!!! I'm copying this reply to your note to the list, just in case others felt I was referring to ALL dropouts. Rather, I believe those who take the course because they already know they are meant to be indexers are more likely to drop out because they are already working and too busy learning on the job, which is the way so many of us learned. In terms of raw numbers, however, I will stand by my assumption (which is all it is!) that most of the people who sign up for the course (and most who sign up for courses at their local university or extension) do not become indexers because they find they don't want to or can't deal with it. Best wishes, and Happy Indexing! Elinor Lindheimer elinorl@mcn.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 22:40:03 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Indexer Subject: Cindex sorting "in" Hello, folks! This is a Cindex question. I have "in" as one of the prefixes to be ignored when sorting subheadings. However, it is therefore sorting "in vitro" and "in vivo" under V at the subhead level. First question: is that the correct sort for this phrase? Second question: if it is more correct to sort it under "I", then how do I make Cindex do that just for those phrases and not for ordinary English use of "in"? (I know there's a way to do this second thing, but I can't remember it!) TIA, -- Sarah Smith ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 20:47:42 -0700 Reply-To: Elinor Lindheimer Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: Re: BOB vs database indexing personalities (was USDA) What a marvelous post from Shelley Greenhouse! She has felt intimidated by back-of-the-book indexing, and I have always felt intimidated by database indexing. Yes, they are very different, and the USDA course deals with back-of-the-book indexing only. Whenever an author sent me a list of terms to include, I cringed, because I felt constrained by the terms. I think database indexing must be much, much harder--and so it's refreshing to hear of someone who feels exactly the same, the other way around! Guess it's what you know, and how long you've been doing it.... Elinor Lindheimer elinorl@mcn.org