From LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu Wed Sep 16 15:47:31 1998 Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 14:07:59 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB To: Julius Ariail Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9807C" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:23:15 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: self-publishing groups Does anyone have any information on self publishing discussion groups? Also, does anyone know of a self publishing organization which meets in Marin County, California. I've lost the phone number of the Marin group and am hoping that someone on this list may have heard of them. Thanks! Sylvia Coates ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 00:34:43 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: answering machines In-Reply-To: <199807150413.XAA03311@mixcom.mixcom.com> Hi, Do Mi. I have a GE that's worked fine for more than 6 yrs. But what I really wanted to say--although you didn't say just how your machine is unreliable--is that an awful lot of problems with answering machines are caused by dirty tape head and other areas of contact with the cassette. (Sorry if I'm stating the obvious.) So if you haven't already done so, you might want to clean that sucker out before junking it. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 02:13:25 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "D. Shaw" Subject: Re: answering machines In-Reply-To: <199807150200.WAA02436@camel9.mindspring.com> I have BellSouth's version of voice mail; I think it's called Memory Caller. It's wonderful if you have one phone line and you spend much time on the computer. BellSouth keeps messages for at least three weeks, maybe four. In early September 1996, when Hurricane Fran blew through, we were without phone service for three weeks. Not only did I get all my messages, but they stayed in the mail box well into October. About a week after Fran, when we were able to get out=97=97=97after the creek went down to the south = and the trees across the highway to the north were cleared=97=97=97I was able to= pick them up at a friend's in town (as well as take a long shower). There are only two problems: 1 I cannot convince my sister and mother that I cannot screen calls, so I= get many messages from them saying, "Hello? Pick up if you're there. Hello?" 2 When the phone lines go out, and they do regularly, I cannot convince anyone who happened to call that the lines were out. Cheers, Deborah shawd@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 10:27:02 +0200 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "isko.conf" Subject: ISKO 5 -- Programme Final Programme Fifth International ISKO Conference on "Structures & Relations in Knowledge Organization" Lille, France, August 25-29 1998 organized by the International Society for Knowledge Organization & the University Charles de Gaulle Lille 3 Organisie par l'University Charles de Gaulle Lille 3 et l'International Society for Knowledge Organization Conference activities will take place in : La confirence se tiendra ` la: la Maison l'Education Permanente, 1, Place Georges Lyon, 59000 Lille. The registration will take place on Tuesday, August 25, 8:30 am-10am L'inscription se diroulera le mardi 25 ao{t entre 8h30 et 9h30. ************************************************************************** Rappel : Les prisentations peuvent jtre faites indiffiremment soit en frangais soit en anglais. Reminder: Papers can be read either in French or in English. ************************************************************************** Tuesday/Mardi, August/Ao{t 25 1998 Session A1a: 10h/10h30 Opening of the Conference/Siance inaugurale Widad MUSTAFA el HADI, Prisidente de la 5e Confirence Internationale de ISKO, Prisidente d'ISKO-France Allain DEREMETZ, Premier Vice-Prisident de l'Universiti Lille 3 Ingetraut DAHLBERG, Former ISKO President Hanne ALBRECHTSEN, ISKO President Session A1b: 10h30/12h Panel addressing the general theme of the Conference./Panel sur le thhme de la Confirence Chair/Prisidente: Rebecca GREEN, College of Library and Information Services, University of Maryland, USA Panelists: Carol BEAN, Lister Hill Center for Biomedical Communications, National Library of Medicine, USA Christian FLUHR, Direction de l'Information Scientifique & Technique (DIST-CEA), Saclay, France Michhle HUDON, Icole de bibliothiconomie et des sciences de l'information, Universiti de Montrial, Canada Ia McILWAINE, School of Library, Archive and Information Studies, University College London, Editor, Universal Decimal Classification, UK Joan MITCHELL, Editor, Dewey Decimal Classification, OCLC Forest Press, USA A. NEELAMEGHAN, Honorary Visiting Professor, Documentation Research and Training Centre, ISI, Bangalore, India LUNCH/DEJEUNER 12h/14h Session A2: 14h/15h10 Epistemology and Information Ecology, Chair/Prisident: Chair: Birger HJORLAND, The Royal School of Library and Information Science, Copenhagen (Denmark) -- The Role of Classificatory Structures as Boundary Objects in Information Ecologies, Hanne ALBRECHTSEN, The Royal School of Library and Information Science, Copenhagen, Denmark and Elin K. JACOB, School of Library and Information Science, Indiana University, USA -- Mitaphore, organisation et construction des connaissances dans les sciences textuelles, Alain DEREMETZ, University of Lille 3, France -- Du raisonnement abductif, Jacques ROUAULT, CRISTAL-GRESEC - Universiti Stendhal Grenoble 3, France Session A3: 15h10/16h20 Cognitive Approaches to Knowledge Organization (A): Conceptual Entities and Modeling of Ontologies, Chair/Prisident: Kim VELTMAN, University of Toronto, Canada -- From Thesauri towards Ontologies? Dietrich FISCHER, GMD-IPSI, Darmstadt, Germany Ontology Models for Supporting Exploratory Information Needs, Maria LEE, Research Data --- Networks Cooperative Research Centre, CSIRO, Australia and Riichiro MIZOGUCHI, The Institute of Scientific and Industrial Research, Osaka University, Japan -- System of Types + Inter-Concept Relations Properties: towards Validation of Constructed Terminologies?, Christophe JOUIS, UFR IDIST, University Chales De Gaulle Lille 3 & LALIC, University La Sorbonne, France BREAK/PAUSE 16h20/16h50 Session A4: 16h50/17h Computational Models, Chair/Prisident: A Steven Pollitt, Department of Information Systems, School of Computing and Mathematics, University of Huddersfield, UK -- A Cognitive Science System for Symbol Grounding, Jean-Pierre GRUSELLE, LIMSI - CNRS, Orsay, France -- Two Modes of Automated Domain Analysis: Multidimensional Scaling vs. Kohonen Feature Mapping of Information Science, Howard D. WHITE, Xia LIN, Katherine W. McCAIN, College of Information Science and Technology, Drexel University, USA -- An Artificial Neural Network Perspective on Knowledge Representation from Databases: the Use of a Multilayer Perceptron for Data Clusters Cartography, Xavier POLANCO, Claire FRANCOIS, Aly OULD, PRI / INIST / CNRS, Nancy, France Reception by the University of Lille /Riception offerte par l'Universiti de Lille 3 (18h) Wednesday/Mercredi, August/Ao{t 26, 1998 Session B1: 9h/10h50 Development and Analysis in Classification Systems, Chair/Prisident: Francis MIKSA, Graduate Schoool of Library & Information Science, University of Texas at Austin, USA -- Classification Systems in their Historical Development: Problems of Typology and Terminology, Eduard R. SUKIASYAN, Russian State Library, Moscow, Russia -- Relationships in Ranganathan's Colon Classification: a Critical Appraisal, M.P. SATIJA, Department of Library Science, GND University, Amritsar, India -- Classification Structure Principles: Investigations, Experiences and Conclusions, Ingetraut DAHLBERG, Former ISKO President, Frankfurt, Germany -- General Classification Systems: Structural Principles for Multidisciplinary Specification, Clare BEGHTOL, University of Toronto, Canada -- Knowledge Classifications, Bibliographic Classifications and the Internet, Ia C. McILWAINE, University College London, UK BREAK/PAUSE 10h50/11h20 Session B2: 11h20/12h30 Interdisciplinary Approaches to Knowledge Organization, Chair/Prisident: Richard Bouchi, Ecole Nationale Supirieure des Sciences de l'Information et des Bibliothhques (ENSSIB), Villeurbanne, France -- Computational Mechanisms for Knowledge Organization, John MYLOPOULOS, Igor JURISICA, Eric YU, University of Toronto, Toronto, Canada -- Modeling Users Needs : Schema of Interrogation and Filtering the Answers from the Web in Cooperation Mode, Omar LAROUK, CERSI-ENSSIB & IUT-Dijon, France -- An Interdisciplinary World and Discipline Based Classification, Nancy J. WILLIAMSON, University of Toronto, Canada LUNCH/DEJEUNER LUNCH 12h30/14h30 Session B3: 14h30/16h Design of Information Systems (A) Thesaurus Design, Chair/Prisident: M. P. SATIJA, Department of Library Science, GND University, Amritsar, India -- The Nature of Explicit Parent-Child Relationships in Mesh Tree Structures, Carol A. BEAN, Lister Hill Center for Biomedical Communications, National Library of Medicine, USA -- A preliminary Investigation of the Usefulness of Semantic Relations and of Standardized Definitions for the Purpose of Specifying Meaning in a Thesaurus, Michhle HUDON, Universiti de Montrial, Canada -- Defining the Conceptual Space for a World Exhibition: First Experiences, Winfried SCHMITZ-ESSER, University of Applied Sciences, Hamburg, Germany -- Future Thesauri: What Kind of Structure and Relations do Searchers Need?, Marianne LYKKE NIELSEN, Royal School of Library & Information Science, Copenhagen, Denmark BREAK/PAUSE 16h/16h20 Session B4: 16h20/18h POSTERS/COMMUNICATIONS AFFICHEES Chairs/Prisidents: Sylvie DALBIN, ATD, Paris, and Chritophe JOUIS, UFR IDIDT, University Lille 3, France -- The Structure of Judicial Opinions: Identifying Internal Components and their Relationships, Jack G. CONRAD, Daniel P. DABNEY, West Group, The Thomson Corporation, Eagan, Minnesota, USA -- External Dialog and Internal Structure of an Iconographic Database, Marie DESPRES-LONNET, Kattel BRIATTE, CREDO ER CNRS 118, Universiti Charles De Gaulle Lille 3, France -- A system of "computer-aided diacritisation" using a lexical database of arabic language, Malek GHENIMA, CERSI - ENSSIB, Villeurbanne France & IRSIT, Tunisie -- Towards an Elaborate Information System: Automatic Classification of Terms Using Variations Relations, Fidelia IBEKWE-SANJUAN, Dept. of Information & Communication, IUT du Havre, France -- Computer-Assisted Plurilingual Reading System, Jacques LADOUCEUR, Arman TAJAROBI, Universiti Laval, Canada -- A Semiotic Analysis of Icons on the World Wide Web Library Homepages: an Analysis of Indexing and Use, Yan MA, Virgil DIODATO, University of Rhode Island, USA -- Internal Representation of Knowledge in an Interactive, Multimedia and Encyclopedia Oriented System, Houria OUICI, J.P. METZGER, ERSICO Universiti Jean Moulin Lyon 3, France -- A User Model Based on the Evolution of Information need during a Document Search : New Approaches Sami OUESLATI, CERSI - ENSSIB, Villeurbanne, France -- The Indexing of Technical Documents : the Use of a Knowledge Representation Model, Ciline PAGANELLI, Jacques ROUAULT, CRISTAL-GRESEC, Universiti Stendhal Grenoble 3, France -- Understanding Information Retrieval: Analysis of Users' Activity, C. ROS, N. MATTA, INRIA-Sophia Antipolis (ACACIA project), Sophia-Antipolis, France -- Automatic Indexing of Multimedia Documents Based on the Extraction of Nominal Phrases, Sahbi SIDHOM, CERSI - ENSSIB, Villeurabanne, France -- Development of a Knowledge Infrastructure for the Canadian Forest Services, A.J. SIMARD, Canadian Forest Service, Ottawa, Canada Reception at the Town Hall by the Mayor of Lille / Riception par la Mairie de Lille 19h Thursday/Jeudi, August/Ao{t 27, 1998 Session C1: 9h/10h50 Design of Information Systems (B): Knowledge Structures at the Interface, Chair/Prisident: Paul SOLOMON, School of Information & Library Science, University of North Carolina, USA -- Using Syntagmatic Relationships as a Browsing Relevance Feedback Strategy in an WWW_OPACs Based on RAMEAU List: an Empirical Study, Madjid IHADJADENE, Richard BOUCHE, ENSSIB /CERSI, Villeurbanne, France -- Visualizing the Full Spectrum of Document Relationships , Elizabeth G. HETZLER, Wyllona M. HARRIS, Pacific Northwest National Laboratory, Richland, WA, USA -- The Application of the Dewey Decimal Classification in a View-Based Searching OPAC, Steve POLLITT, The Centre for Database Access Research, University of Huddersfield, UK -- A Graphical Interface for Conceptual Navigation in Faceted Thesauri or other Nested Hierarchies, Uta PRISS, School of Library and Information Science, Indiana University, USA -- Dewey as an Internet Subject Guide, Diane VIZINE-GOETZ, OCLC Online Computer Library Center, Inc., Dublin, OH, USA BREAK/PAUSE 10h50/11h10 Session C2: 11h10/12h30 Linguistic Aspects (A), Chair/Prisident: Gerhard BUDIN, University of Vienna, Austeria -- Concept Structures for Large Vocabularies, Gerhard RAHMSTORF, Technical University Darmstadt, Germany -- Automatic Term Recognition & Extraction Tools : Examining the New Interfaces and their Effective Communication Role in LSP Discourse, Widad MUSTAFA el HADI, UFR IDIST, Universiti Charles De Gaulle Lille 3 -- Peering through the Linguistic Keyhole: What Can Term Choice Tell Us about Knowledge Organization?, Lynne BOWKER, School of Applied Language and Intercultural Studies, Dublin City University, Dublin, Ireland -- Breaking of UDC Subject Headings into Sets of Key Words, Gerhard J.A. RIESTHUIS, University of Amsterdam, Holland LUNCH/DEJEUNER 12h30/14h Session C3: 14h/14h45 The Comparative Approach, Chair/Prisident: Jacques MANIEZ, ISKO-France, Dijon, France -- ICC and ICS: comparison and relations between two systems based on different principles, Leonardo MEO-EVOLI,Giliola NEGRINI, Tamara FARNESI, CNR - Istituto di studi sulla ricerca e documentazione scientifica, Rome, Italy -- Charting a Journey across Knowledge domains: Feminism in the Dewey Decimal Classification, H.A. OLSON, D.B. WARD, School of Library & Information Studies, University of Alberta, Canada BREAK/PAUSE BREAK 14h/45/15 Session C4: 15H15/16h Cognitive Approaches to Knowledge Organization (B): Applications: Image Retrieval, Chair/Prisident: Yves JEANNERET, UFR IDIST, Universiti Charles De Gaulle - Lille 3, France -- Graphic Language Documents: Structures and Functions, Caroline BEEBE, Elin K. JACOB, Indiana University, USA -- A Cognitive Approach to Representing Moving Image Documents, Abby A. GOODRUM, Drexel University, USA -- Cognitive models in pictorial image retrieval, F. Javier GARIA-MARCO, Carmen AGUSTIN, University de Zaragoza, Spain BREAK/PAUSE 16hh16h20 Session C5: 16h20/17h10 Linguistic Aspects (B), Chair/Prisident: Christian FLUHR, Direction de l'Information Scientifique & Technique (DIST-CEA), Saclay, France -- Thesaurus Usage and Mental Development, Annette BEGUIN, UFR IDIST, University of Lille 3, France -- The Linguistic/Semiotic Conditions of Information Retrieval/Documentation in the Light of a Saussurean Conception of Language, Vesa SUOMINEN, Department of Information Studies, University of Oulu, Finland -- Towards Structuring of Indexing Vocabulary for Large Technical Documents, Christel FROISSARD, Genevihve LALLICH-BOIDIN, CRISTAL-GRESEC, Universiti Stendhal - Grenoble 3, France ISKO Business Meeting 18h Dinner in a Flemish restaurant/Diner dans un restaurant spicialitis flamandes 19h Friday/Vendredi, August/Ao{t 28, 1998 Session D1: Knowledge 9h/10h30 Design of Information Systems (C): Design of Special-Purpose Systems of Knowledge, Chair/Prisidente: Hanne ALBRECHTSEN, President of ISKO, The Royal School of Library and Information Science - Copenhagen, Denmark -- On the Use of Categorizations Employed in Research Reports as the Basis for Organizing Knowledge in Specific Domains: Exploring the Tension between Stability and Change in Systems of Categories, Paul SOLOMON, Department of Information Studies, University of Tampere, Finland and School of Information and Library Science, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, USA -- Information Processes within a Professional Activity, Jean-Paul METZGER, ERSICO-Universiti Jean Moulin Lyon 3, Rosalba PALERMITI, Claire MORISET, Equipe RI3, Grenoble2, IUT2 - Universiti Grenoble 2, France -- Texts Structures and Information Retrieval in Large Textual Documents, Evelyne MOUNIER, Cicile PAGANELLI, CRISTAL-GRESEC, Universiti Stendhal Grenoble 3, France -- Knowledge Transfer in the Field of Telematics, in a Didactic Communicational Context Realized with Hypermedia Support, Isabelle Vidalenc, Olivier Dupont, ERSICO, University Jean-Moulin Lyon 3, France BREAK/PAUSE 10h30/11h Session D2: 11h/12h30 Conceptual Modeling, Chair/Prisidente: Ingetraut DAHLBERG, Former ISKO President, Frankfurt, Germany -- Attribution and Relationality, Rebecca GREEN, College of Library and Information Services, University of Maryland, USA -- A Model of Ontologies by Differentiation, Stiphanie LACROIX, Jean-Charles MARTY, Christophe ROCHE, Laboratoire de Ginie Informatique de Savoie, France -- Subdivisions vs. Conjunctions: a Discussion on Conceptual Theory, Yiukio NAKAMURA, Inforcom Technical Bureau, Tokyo, Japan -- Database and Knowledge Representation: the Greek Legacy, Alan PHELAN, University of Central England, UK LUNCH/DEJEUNER LUNCH 12h30/14h20 Session D3: 14h20/15h30 User Profile Modeling, Chair/Prisident: Francisco JAVIER GARCMA MARCO, Departamento de Biblioteconomma y Documentacisn, Facultad de Filosofma y Letras, Universidad de Zaragoza, Spain -- Metadata Structures and User Preferences: Designing User-Focussed Knowledge Access System, Lynne C. HOWARTH, Faculty of Information Studies, University of Toronto, Canada -- Information Transfer Considering the Production and Use Contexts: Information Transfer Languages, Maria SALLET FERREIRA NOVELLINO, Federal University of Rio de Janeiro, Brazil -- Conceptual Maps: Paradigmatic and Syntagmatic Links for Users, Elisabeth KOLMAYER, D. LAVANDIER, D. ROGER, ENSSIB-CERSI, Villeurbanne, France BREAK/PAUSE 15h30/16h Session D4: Structures and Relations in the On-line Environment, Chair/President : Roland HJERPPE, LIBLAB Dept. of Computer and Information Science, Linkvping University, Sweden -- The Structure of Classification Schemes Used in Internet Search Engines, Marthinus S. VAN DER WALT, University of Stellenbosch, South Africa Organizing Conceptual Knowledge Online, Robert E. KENT, Washington State University, WA, USA -- The ALCOM/NIST Heterogeneous Structures Database: Knowledge Structure for Basic and Applied Research in an Interdisciplinary Scientific Collaboration, Laura M. BARTOLO, Libraries and Media Services, Kent State University, Maja ZUMER, National and University Library, Turjaska 1, Ljubljana, Slovenia, Robert CASSON, School of Library and Information Science, Kent State University, Leo HOLMBERG, Liquid Crystal Institute, Kent State University, USA -- Individual Differences and the Use of Medical World Wide Web Resources: The Use of Graphical Representations of Navigational Patterns to Support Traditional Analysis of Qualitative Data, Honey LUCAS, -- Domain Knowledge Organization for Encyclopedia Design: an Object Oriented Approach, Jalal AKAICHI, Girard LOSFELD, Universiti Lille 3, France Session D5: 17h30/18h Concluding Remarks/Conclusion, Nancy Williamson, University of Toronto, Canada Close of the Conference/Cltture de la confirence 18h15-18h30 Le Coup de l'itrier One for the road 18h30-19h30 Saturday/Samedi, August/Ao{t 29 1998 Extra-Conference Excursions : - Bibliothhque Nationale de France, Frangois Mitterand, Paris - ENSSIB (Ecole Nationale des Sciences de l'Information et des Bibliothhques) Lyon ***************************************************************************** REGISTRATION FORM Return to: Christophe JOUIS, IDIST, UNIVERSITE CHARLES DE GAULLE -LILLE 3, BP 149, 59653 Villeneuve d'Ascq CEDEX, FRANCE Fax: +33 (3) 20 41 63 79 - Tel: +33 (3) 20 41 64 08 Name: _________________________ First name: __________________________________ Company/University: _________________________________________________________ Address:____________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________________ Country: _____________ Tel:_________________ E-mail:___________________________ Please indicate if it is your personal r or professional r address Invoice to be sent to (if different from above):______________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________________ Do not include my mailing address in a non-society mailing list r Registration fees (including VAT 20,6 %) Registration fees include access to sessions, proceedings and coffee breaks. (VAT = FF 40, 77 on meals and drinks cannot be claimed) Before June 10, 1998 After June 10, 1 998 7 Regular ISKO member r FF 1700 FF r FF 2000 FF 7 Non-member r FF 1900 FF r FF 2200 FF 7 Student rate r FF 1000 FF r FF 1200FF Payment enclosed Please send your registration fees (Bank money order, Postal money order) to the order of : L'AGENT COMPTABLE DE L'UNIVERSITE LILLE 3 (University accountant) BP 149, 59653 Villeneuve d'Ascq CEDEX, FRANCE Copy of my banker's draft r Official order form r Credit cards a re not accepted BULLETIN D'INSCRIPTION Retourner ` : Christophe JOUIS, IDIST, UNIVERSITE CHARLES DE GAULLE -LILLE 3, BP 149, 59653 Villeneuve d'Ascq CEDEX, FRANCE Fax: +33 (3) 20 41 63 79 - Tel: +33 (3) 20 41 64 08 Nom : _________________________ Prinom : ____________________________________ Sociiti/Universiti : ___________________________________________________________ Adresse :____________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________________ Pays : ______________ Til:___________________ E-mail:___________________________ Indiquez s'il s'agit de votre adresse personnelle r ou professionnelle r Adresse de facturation si diffirente :______________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Je vous autorise ` communiquer mon adresse ` l'extirieur de l'association oui r non r Droits d'inscription Les droits d'inscription comprennent l'acchs aux sessions, les actes et les pauses cafi Avant le 10 juin 1998 Aprhs le 10 juin 1998 7 Membre ISKO r 1700 FF r 2000 FF 7 Non-membre r 1900 FF r 2200 FF 7 Etudiant r 1000 FF r 1200 FF Paiement joint A retourner ` l'ordre de : L'AGENT COMPTABLE DE L'UNIVERSITE LILLE 3 Copie du virement bancaire r Bon de commande r Chhque r ou CCP r Les cartes bancaires ne sont pas accepties ACCOMODATION RESERVATION/RESERVATION HOTELIERE 4**** hotel category (Lille centre) Name Alliance 17, quai du Wault 59000 Lille Price (1) 650 FF Tel.03 2030 62 62 Fax 03 20 42 94 25 3*** hotel category (Lille centre) Mercure -le-Royal 2, bd Carnot 5900 Lille 530 FF Tel. 03 20 14 71 47 Fax 03 2 0 14 71 48 NOVOTEL 116 rue de l'Htpital Militaire 59800 LILLE 560 FF Tel. 03.20.30.65.26 Fax 03.20.30 04 04 (1) Average prices per room and per nigth. Room basis only, taxes and service included. 2** hotel category (Lille centre) La Belle Etoile 57, rue de Bithune 59800 Lille 230-330 FF Tel. 03 20 12 96 96 Fax 0320 40 25 87 St Maurice 8, parvis St Maurice 59000 Lille 300 FF Tel. 03 20 06 27 40 Fax 03 20 42 13 29 BRUEGHEL 3/5 parvis Saint-Maurice 59000 Lille 200-350 FF Tel. 03.20.06.06.69 Fax 03.20.63.25.27 Minerva 28, rue Anatole France 59800 Lille 200-300 FF Tel. 03 20 55 25 11 Fax 03 20 06 02 20 (1) Average prices per room and per night. Room basis only, taxes and service included. ************************************** Liste complimentaire d'httels au centre de LILLE Httel NOVOTEL Lille-Centre *** 116 rue de l'Htpital Militaire 59800 LILLE Til. 03.28.38.53.53 Fax.03.28.38.53.54 Chambre individuelle : 560frcs Double : 590frcs Httel BRUEGHEL ** 3/5 parvis Saint-Maurice 59000 LILLE Til.03.20.06.06.69 Fax.03.20.63.25.27 Prix: de 290frcs ` 400frcs. Httel FLANDRE ANGLETERRE** 15 place de la Gare 59800 LILLE Til.03.20.06.04.12 Fax.03.20.06.37.76 Chambre individuelle : 310frcs Double: 330frcs Httel URBIS OPERA** 21 rue Lepelletier 59800 LILLE Til.03.20.06.21.95 Fax.03.20.74.91.30 Chambre individuelle/ double: 350frcs Httel CHAGNOT ** 24 place de la Gare 59800 LILLE Til.03.20.74.11.87 Fax.03.20.74.08.23 Chambre individuelle :300frcs double: 350frcs LE GRAND HOTEL ** 51 rue Faidherbe 59800 LILLE Til.03.20.06.31.57 Fax.03.20.06.24.44 Chambre individuelle : 270frcs 2 personnes: 320frcs Prices: single: 270frcs double: 320frcs Httel DE LA TREILLE**NN 7-9 place Louise de Bettignies 59000 LILLE Til.03.20.55.45.46 Fax.03.20.51.51.69 Chambre individuelle : 370frcs 2 personnes:400frcs Prices: single: 370frcs double: 400frcs ********************************************************** Widad MUSTAFA ELHADI UFR IDIST Universiti Charles De Gaulle Lille 3 BP 149 59653 Villeneuve D'Ascq France TEL 33 (0) 3 20 41 64 08 FAX 33 (0) 3 20 41 63 79 Personal e-mail address : mustafa@univ-lille3.fr ISKO 5 e-mail address : isko.conf@univ-lille3.fr *********************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 01:38:43 -0700 Reply-To: Elinor Lindheimer Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: Re: answering machines Do Mi could have been talking about my answering machine, and I too have had my head in the sand. Meanwhile, my 16-year-old daughter is very happy with her AT&T digital answering machine. I am, unfortunately, unable to get Call Answering or as it's known here, Pacific Bell Messaging Center, because it's not yet available in this area. Ah, the plus and minus of living in a beautiful, yet remote place! Elinor ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 04:46:57 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kim Harris Subject: Re: question for medical indexers/editors Is anyone out there a British indexer? Or a legal indeer. I'm based in London Kim Harris ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 07:40:41 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: answering machines In-Reply-To: <199807150127.VAA00107@mail3.bellsouth.net> Personally, Do Mi, when my answering machine began to stammer about two years ago, I dumped it and switched it to voicemail, which I've come to really like. The sound is much better, you can set up multiple mailboxes if you want them (different family members, in our case), and checking mail from anywhere else in the country -- and especially within the BellSouth region -- is very easy. The only thing it *can't* do is screen your calls for you when you're working at home. Mine costs $3.00/month, which may be cheaper than a good machine, amortized over three or four years -- by which time the technology will have changed anyway. Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds > -----Original Message----- > From: Indexer's Discussion Group > [mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of DStaub11@AOL.COM > Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 1998 8:26 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: answering machines > > > Does anybody have a recommendation for a recent-model simple answering > machine? I don't need anything really fancy--something that will > be audible, > have room for a long greeting and long messages, and allow me to > pick up my > calls from a remote location. I don't need one that includes a phone, > loudspeaker or any of the other extras I keep hearing about. My > current one is > becoming unreliable, and, having had my head in the sand for > months, I'm about > to go away on vacation. I'm hoping to just go buy one, and I'm > worried that > they cost an arm and a leg... All quick suggestions much appreciated!! > > Do Mi > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:05:54 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nell Benton Subject: Re: answering machines This is another plug for call answering. I love the fact that it has no machinery to maintain. I walk by the aisles of answering machines in the stores with a feeling of victory because I used to hate dealing with tapes and machines. The price is absolutely worth it to me. In my area calls are kept 30 days and in three years I have never reached the limit, if there is one. Separate mailboxes with separate passwords can be set up for different family members or different functions such as family and business calls. I can always check my messages from a remote site or if I prefer, forward the calls. The only drawback is that there isn't a little light that goes on when there's a message. This has been solved by picking up the phone every time I pass by. It is second nature now. A just moved out of the Washington DC area into the country. I was thrilled to find I have access to call answering way out here in the suburbs of Manassas, VA. Maybe you all out in remote places will have it soon. When you have access, I recommend giving it a trial! Nell ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:15:07 -0400 Reply-To: dbrenner@javanet.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diane Brenner Subject: Re: question for medical indexers/editors Celia McCoy wrote: > > Have you seen the term (omega)-Agatoxin IVA? Is this a trademarked product, > or should Agatoxin be lower cased? Thanks in advance for a speedy reply! > > Celia It's a spider-toxin-derived calcium channel blocker -- generic, do not capitalize. Diane Brenner Indexing Services P.O.Box 206 Worthington, MA 01098 413-528-5593 413-528-8089 (fax) dbrenner@javanet.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:17:11 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: ASI Web Site All -- fyi ... the "Letters from ASI's President" page on the ASI Web site (http://ASIndexing.org) has been updated. Happy indexing! .... Lori *********************************************************************** Lori Lathrop ---------->INTERNET:76620.456@compuserve.com President - 1998-1999, American Society of Indexers Lathrop Media Services, 7308-C East Independence Blvd., #316 Charlotte, NC 28227 / Phone: 704-531-0021 URL - http://idt.net/~lathro19 (note: that's a "nineteen" at the end) *********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:53:54 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: answering machines Another advantage of voicemail/Call Answering is that it works even when the power goes out (assuming the phone company has power, anyway.) Answering machines will not work in a power outage, and some (including mine) will occasionally lose messages received before the outage occurred. Where I live, we often lose power during storms, and for a while, we were losing power unpredictably due to a faulty transformer up the road. While the latter has *finally* been fixed, the former still happens fairly often. We recently invested in a UPS for the computer -- gives me enough time to save and turn off the computer, at least. And now that voice mail has finally reached our tiny GTE pocket, I plan to add that as well. Kara Pekar jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 10:12:43 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Thomas Hayes Subject: Re: Subs, Sub-Subs, and Multiple Errors In-Reply-To: <199807131423.KAA30566@smtp03.kent.edu> Vicki, Just thought I'd sent a note to confirm that I understood what you meant by "arms and legs akimbo" as, I'm sure, many people did. Tom Waits, an excellent musician, uses that exact phrase often enough in an album entitled "Nighthawks at the Diner," a live concert with a jazzy feel and a loose piano. It is like when people say "Chicken kabobs." When really they mean Shish Chicken. But still, people know what they mean. Anyway, according to Websters New World College Dictionary, 3rd Ed., "akimbo" has its origin in the Middle English words "in kenebowe," literally, "in keen bow," i.e., in a sharp curve; also, from the Old Norse word "kengboginn" or "bow bent"--and thus, technically, legs can be akimbo, despite the recorded usage standardized by dictionaries--as if dictionaries don't reflect, rather than predict the use of living language. Sincerely, Thomas W. Hayes (a Library Science student) thayes2@kent.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 07:33:13 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Philip Montgomery Subject: Re: Millennium bug and Michelangelo Virus ---Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne wrote: > Don't pooh-pooh the power of the dead artist. He brought my office in NYC to its knees in 1993 and it took 2-1/2 weeks to restore every thing. Most folks today have safeguards built into their systems. However, that does not diminish the potnetial power of the virus. Phil _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:03:13 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Noeline Bridge Subject: Re: Answering machines After suffering for years with a temperamental answering machine, we've been very pleased with our Sony Integrated Telephone Answering Machine IT-A200. It's been utterly reliable now for about three years. Any length of message (almost!) is allowed and we've been able to access the messages from remote locations without a problem. It has a clock and gives the day and time of the message. It cost a bit more--$125 Canadian, much cheaper in the States--but we wanted to buy our machine from a firm that backs up its sales with good service (a sad lesson learned from our first machine!) The only other disadvantage is that it hangs up on callers when it can't hear anything. This screens out hang-ups and heavy breathers, but it has hung up on a couple of editors with very soft voices. However, this has been rare: for a short time we included a suggestion in our greeting that callers speak loudly and clearly, but this was far more inconvenient and off-putting for callers than the possibility that the machine would otherwise hang up on them! Noeline Bridge BRIDGEWORK nbridge@planet.eon.net 10979 123 Street Edmonton, AB T5M 0E1 Canada phone 403-452-8325 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 12:02:06 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nan Badgett Subject: Answering machines I agree with Janet and Rachel that voice mail is the way to go. I had a couple of different answering machines before I got voice mail -- both missed calls and malfunctioned from time to time. And since I do not like= call waiting ( I think it's rude to put someone on hold to take another call), I never miss a call or have a client say, "I called but your line was busy," which used to happen when I had an answering machine. Nan Badgett dba Word-a-bil-i-ty ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 12:35:32 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: question for medical indexers/editors I'm an American legal indexer, for what it's worth. -- Sharon W. > -----Original Message----- > From: Kim Harris [SMTP:KimIndex@AOL.COM] > > Is anyone out there a British indexer? Or a legal indeer. I'm based in > London > > Kim Harris ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 10:07:55 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Horowitz Subject: Re: answering machines This problem can be solved as I have seen in catalogs and probably available at an electronics store a little device to attach to the phone that blinks when there are messages. Roberta Horowitz Snipe >The only drawback is that there isn't a little light that goes on when there's >a message. This has been solved by picking up the phone every time I pass by. >It is second nature now. > y>Nell > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 12:10:35 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah Smith Subject: Re: answering machines In-Reply-To: <199807151636.AA022740590@mailjay.creighton.edu> And yet another plug for the messaging service, or "CallNotes" as it's referred to in my area. I like it for all the reasons mentioned. As for its drawbacks, it's true that you can't screen calls with it, but I invested in Caller ID a few years ago and it's very much worth the price. I don't like the time-limit set on CallNotes messages (if there's a way to change the limit, I haven't found it yet), but it's only happened a couple of times that a caller has heard the "you have x more seconds" (or whatever it is) and had to hurry up and finish... and in both those cases, it was not an editor, but a long-winded friend. :) It may happen that you need to save a message for some reason (legal, or contractual, or because it is from your adorable child-relative). I thought there was no way around this, because the messages are automatically deleted after a certain number of days, but a friend tells me that if you forward a message to yourself, and then never open it, it can be saved that way. I haven't had to try it, though. There are more options on CallNotes than I've had time to fiddle with. Apparently you can even set it to give you a wake-up or reminded call! (Phone rings; you answer; you hear your voice saying "It's time to go pick up your fax machine from the shop!" or some such) > The only drawback is that there isn't a little light that goes on when there's > a message. This has been solved by picking up the phone every time I pass by. > It is second nature now. There are some phones available that have a built-in CallNotes light that will flash when you have a message. Too pricey for me, though. -- Sarah Smith ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 10:20:33 -0700 Reply-To: jlee@eskimo.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeri Lee Subject: Re: Softward I am, like you, a new indexer. I was lucky enough to start out with SKY which I have found to be really easy to learn. I am a "key poker" rather than a "manual reader," and SKY has proven to be a very intuitive program to learn. Standard disclaimer and YMMV, etc. Jeri Lee Stellindex@AOL.COM wrote: > I'm just starting out in indexing and will be buying some software. Which is > the best for a good price? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:59:49 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: BWI Subject: Re: answering machines ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 16:00:38 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: Answering Machines [historical blather] As many have mentioned, answering machines can be a pain, and voice mail has many advantages. My current machine is an "old" Panasonic model that is a hybrid in that it uses standard-size audio casettes but has a pre-recorded date stamp message stored in non-volatile memory; NOT, thank god, a "vocoder" robot message but a real person's voice. Even though I am a working technician I frequently don't believe in technology. Computers don't work, it costs $600 to change a $1 chip on your electronically-controlled car, when your VCR breaks nobody knows how to fix it, when your fancy hi-tech solid-state answering machine goes bonkers you have to throw it away rather than simply replacing a tape. My Panasonic machine has RELAYS, and SOLENOIDS, and CLUTCHES! It makes many satisfying noises while doing its thing, which in designerbabble would be called user feedback. I also have the original Bell System model 1B machine from the 50s, still working perfectly, though now retired. The messages are recorded much as on Edison's original recorder: on a large magnetic drum. To select a given message you simply turn a KNOB on the front panel which, through belts and gearing, moves the playback head back and forth until it is on the correct track. Beautifully designed and nicely packaged -- possibly by Raymond Loewy -- and weighs 30 pounds. Steam electronics forever! Dave T. aka Chicken Little ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 16:00:42 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: new subscriber There also may be indexing software at the ASP [Association of Shareware Professionals] site. This is a rather nice site, in that it lists both members and available software produced under their guidelines. Dave T. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 15:59:27 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Organization: Crossover Information Services Subject: Re: Answering machines Here's another vote for voice mail over machines. I too, eschew call waiting, and despise busy signals. With voice mail, nobody waits, nobody gets put on hold, and nobody gets a busy signal. I had Southern Bell Memory Call, but grew so disgusted with their lack of service--and frequent down time--that I went with a local, cheaper voice mail provider. They use SBell lines, of course, but the actual voice mail software and equipment is not SBell. -- Ann Norcross Crossover Information Services (919) 852-0042 mailto:norcross@ipass.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 11:05:51 -0700 Reply-To: ljm2001@mindspring.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LJM Subject: Re: answering machines I'm amazed at how cheap voice mail is in the rest of the country. I just checked, and here in San Diego Pacific Bell wants $7.95/mo, with a message length of only 3 minutes! I can get a second line added instead for only $6.00/mo (measured rate-3 local calls/day free). We also have the highest gasoline prices in the country, and highest milk prices. I'm starting to get paranoid.....:-) Laura ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:59:49 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: BWI Subject: Re: answering machines In-Reply-To: <199807150127.SAA00709@smtp4.teleport.com> >Does anybody have a recommendation for a recent-model simple answering >machine? Hi Do Mi If I had my 'druthers, I'd have gotten one that does NOT use little tape cassettes. Next time I'll get one that uses a different (digital? chip?) techonology, even if it costs a little more. The other thing to watch out for is the kind of machine that gives the caller a LONG series of beeps (which are even longer after messages are left on the machine) after the introductory message and just prior to accepting the caller's message. My callers repeatedly waste my time by reminding me of this quirk of the machine. Good luck. Martha BWI (When this was a personal line, I used to put a stop to the problem of callers by saying some variation of "Hello, this is Martha-for-Brains. I'm far too busy to talk to you right now. Leave a message. P.S. The number of beeps that follow this message can refer to the number of or or - take your pick" ) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 17:29:08 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sue Nedrow Subject: Re: answering machines Thanks for starting this discussion, because I've been thinking about changing my system. I currently use an AT&T model 1720 answering machine. It has been effective for taking messages when the line is not busy, but I'd also like to have calls picked up when I'm using the phone line for voice or data functions. I did use my local telephone company (C&P Telephone) voice mail function for a short time, but it was not compatible with my fax-modem. Whenever I sent or received a fax, I'd receive "messages" on my voice mail consisting of that screeching fax tone (you know the one). Also, the voice mail would reset itself so that I was unable to access various function menus to customize my voice mail. The telephone company was not able to suggest a fix for this, so I went back to my trusty answering machine. Has anyone else had this problem? If so, have you found a solution? Please respond to me off-list if this topic is too specific to be of general interest. Thanks! Sue Nedrow ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 14:24:52 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: BWI Subject: Graf? Di? Are Di and Graf names, or are they words like "von" or "van"? Example: Henning Graf Reventlow is responsible for ... George Di Giovanni So what do I do with them? 1. Graf Reventlow, Henning Di Giovanni, George or 2. Reventlow, Henning Graf Giovanni, George Di or 3. Reventlow, Henning G. Giovanni, George D. and 4. Reventlow, H. G. Giovanni, G. D. Thanks. Martha Back Words Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 14:30:19 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Nickel, Joyce" Subject: Re: Graf? Di? I've only ever seen your example 1. (This also goes for D'Angelo, De Weir). -----Original Message----- From: BWI [SMTP:index@TELEPORT.COM] Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 1998 2:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: Graf? Di? Are Di and Graf names, or are they words like "von" or "van"? Example: Henning Graf Reventlow is responsible for ... George Di Giovanni So what do I do with them? 1. Graf Reventlow, Henning Di Giovanni, George or 2. Reventlow, Henning Graf Giovanni, George Di or 3. Reventlow, Henning G. Giovanni, George D. and 4. Reventlow, H. G. Giovanni, G. D. Thanks. Martha Back Words Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 17:52:46 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Answering Machines [historical blather] In-Reply-To: <199807152010.QAA29442@camel9.mindspring.com> At 04:00 PM 7/15/98 -0400, you wrote: >As many have mentioned, answering machines can be a pain, and >voice mail has many advantages. First, I too use voice mail for the advantages stated. However, you may find a couple of decided disadvantages. If your voice mail is like mine, and you have a fax and/or a computer on the same line, you will not be able to reach either your fax or your computer by phone. I bought a program called PCAnywhere, which was supposed to allow me to dial into my computer from a remote location, only to find that voice mail intercepts the call before it ever reaches the computer. Same thing with my fax. I have had to get a separate number (same line, but with a distinctive ring) for my fax and I have abandoned plans for PCAnywhere because that would entail yet another phone number. Dick Evans Dick Evans infodex@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 17:48:20 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Michaud Subject: Thanks Re: Glossary/Index In-Reply-To: <199807101953.PAA01161@mx05.erols.com> Thanks to everyone who answered my query about a combined glossary/index. Index-L is a wonderful resource for a brand new indexer. Regards, Christine Michaud Michaud Editorial Services cmichaud@erols.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 18:19:36 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: Graf? Di? Martha asked: Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marcy Brown Subject: Sales tax? I am a new indexer in PA looking at all the forms necessary to operate as a sole proprietorship. I was told by the district revenue office that I would have to charge sales tax. Are there any Pennsylvania indexers out there who can verify this? Do you indexers in other states charge sales tax? Thanks for any info you can give me. Marcy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 00:20:59 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Deason Subject: Spanish textbooks Does anyone index foreign language textbooks? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 00:37:10 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "D. Shaw" Subject: Re: How to save voice mail messages forever In-Reply-To: <199807151721.NAA31812@camel9.mindspring.com> I just saved a message this way: * I opened Megaphone (my computer's phone emulation program) * I opened Sound Recorder (Windows 95's recording accessory, under multimedia) * Using the speakerphone option on megaphone, I dialed voice mail and opened my mailbox * I selected File, New in Sound Recorder * When the message began to play, I clicked on Sound Recorder's record button * When the message finished playing, I clicked on Sound Recorder's stop button * I saved the Sound Recorder file. That's it! If anyone would like to hear my neighbor Helen invite me to supper, I can send you the .wav file. I also use voice mail's reminder feature for wake-up calls. I have been known to sleep through all six wake-up calls and two alarms, one ringing for an hour and the other playing loud music for two. (You can set three reminder calls, but if you don't answer voice mail will call back after ten minutes.) Cheers, Deborah shawd@mindspring.com At 12:10 PM 15-07-98 -0500, you wrote: >It may happen that you need to save a message for some reason (legal, or >contractual, or because it is from your adorable child-relative). I >thought there was no way around this, because the messages are >automatically deleted after a certain number of days, but a friend tells >me that if you forward a message to yourself, and then never open it, it >can be saved that way. I haven't had to try it, though. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 22:00:54 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: BWI Subject: Re: Graf? Di? In-Reply-To: <199807152221.PAA25012@smtp3.teleport.com> >"Graf" is a German title more or less equivalent to "Count". I would >put >"Reventlow, Henning Graf". Thanks, Christine. I should have also mentioned that since titles were outlawed in Germany after one of the Wordl Wars, I didn't understand this as a title. It sounds like he either reinstated his title as a name, or didn't drop it in the first place after all. Thanks also to Joyce Nickle for her help off-list. Martha Back Words ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 01:15:26 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Spanish textbooks In a message dated 98-07-16 00:23:35 EDT, you write: << Does anyone index foreign language textbooks? >> I have upon occasion indexed Spanish language textbooks, but usually the authors do it. And when I say upon occasion, I really mean upon occasion. In the last 8 years, I've indexed maybe three. I do edit them, and I have created back-of-the-book glossaries as well. I can't offer much advice, but I'm curious to know what others have done in this field. Leslie Frank Words Indexing and Editing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 06:51:06 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: answering machines In-Reply-To: <85825d72.35ad1f2c@aol.com> Sue Nedrow wrote: >short time, but it was not compatible with my fax-modem. Whenever I sent or >received a fax, I'd receive "messages" on my voice mail consisting of that >screeching fax tone (you know the one). I ran into that, too, and finally decided just to keep my second line (I was exploring dropping the dedicated fax/modem line). There is way to do it, though, with a third party voice/fax discriminator. Some work with Call Messaging, some don't, and they range from $25 to $125. I didn't explore it as I decided not to go that route, but the phone company actually gave me names and numbers of the third party vendors, so you could ask. My second line only costs about $12 a month, and the aggravation it saves and the convenience it gives are worth every cent. I can be talking to a client and they can send a fax while we're talking, and we can discuss it right then and there, for one thing, or I can be on the phone and checking email (how rude) at the same time, etc. RR Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 08:38:32 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Melinda Davis Organization: Univ. of Tennessee College of Law Subject: Chicago Manual of Style, comparison of 13th and 14th I am interested in the substantive changes between the 13th and 14th editions of the Chicago Manual of Style. I have the Nancy Mulvaney sheet that compares the chapters on indexes. So before I re-invent the wheel, I thought I'd ask if a comparison of the whole thing already exists. The introduction to the 14th wasn't terribly helpful--it tends toward mentioning fuller treatments, additional examples, updated material on copyrights, etc. rather than specifics about "changes." (in fact the changes in the indexing chapters don't even rate a mention in the intro). Any leads or words of wisdom will be appreciated. Thanks. Melinda Melinda D. Davis Assistant Professor and Catalog Librarian College of Law Library University of Tennessee 1505 W. Cumberland Avenue Knoxville, TN 37996-1800 (423) 974-6552 (423) 974-6571 (fax) e-mail: davis@libra.law.utk.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 08:02:37 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: Sales tax? In-Reply-To: <199807160049.UAA02476@mail3.bellsouth.net> Everybody wants a piece of the action... In 15+ years, I have NEVER charged sales tax for my services, working in both Texas and Louisiana, and no one has ever questioned it -- not an author, not a publisher, and not the IRS. Part of that may be that 95% of my work is for out-of-state clients. But in the Quill Office Supply case, I believe, the Supreme Court pretty much shot down the ability of any state to collect sales tax on money you earned in interstate transactions. Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds > -----Original Message----- > From: Indexer's Discussion Group > [mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Marcy Brown > Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 1998 7:53 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Sales tax? > > > I am a new indexer in PA looking at all the forms necessary to operate > as a sole proprietorship. I was told by the district revenue office that > I would have to charge sales tax. Are there any Pennsylvania indexers > out there who can verify this? Do you indexers in other states charge > sales tax? > > Thanks for any info you can give me. > > Marcy > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:15:42 +0000 Reply-To: connolly@neca.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dan Connolly Organization: WORD FOR WORD Book Indexing Subject: Re: answering machines For those of you who are still relatively new and only have one phone line in the house, what do you say on your message? Obviously, you're getting more personal calls than professional. At this point, I'm just stating that they reached my number and to leave a message (no name, no company name). Thoughts? Dan -- ========================================= Daniel A. Connolly mailto:connolly@neca.com WORD FOR WORD Indexing and Editing Services www.wfwIndex.necaweb.com Woodstock, CT, USA ========================================= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:19:11 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SCNDX@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Spanish textbooks I enjoy reading the comments on the listserv. I have a PhD in Romance Languages and used to teach at the college level; however, I have never been asked to do a language textbook, although I have indexed linguistics books. In theory, I'd like to do Spanish, French, Italian or Portuguese textbooks-- however, not in the immediate future as it's pretty hectic now. Anita Levy Space Coast Indexers 1101 S. Atlantic Avenue #401 Cocoa Beach FL 32931 407-536-8431 scndx@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:18:10 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Organization: Crossover Information Services Subject: Re: answering machines LJM wrote: > > I'm amazed at how cheap voice mail is in the rest of the country. > I just checked, and here in San Diego Pacific Bell wants $7.95/mo, > with a message length of only 3 minutes! I can get a second line > added instead for only $6.00/mo (measured rate-3 local calls/day free). That $7.95 sounds about right... not high. I'm in North Carolina, and I have a business phone and a home phone. To add Bell South Memory Call for "around $3.00" according to Bell South propaganda, I also had to add the Call Forwarding Busy feature (that's what lets your callers get voicemail when you are talking on the phone), and Call Forwarding No Answer (that's what lets voicemail pick up when you aren't answering), and the Stutter Dial Tone feature (that's what lets you know you have a message waiting), and Memory Call itself. All priced separately, of course. On the home line it came close to $7.00/month, and on the business line it is almost double that price. So, you're not overpriced, we all just under-reported! Ann > > We also have the highest gasoline prices in the country, and highest > milk prices. I'm starting to get paranoid.....:-) > > Laura -- Ann Norcross Crossover Information Services (919) 852-0042 mailto:norcross@ipass.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 08:28:33 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: marvant duhon Subject: Re: Sales tax? In-Reply-To: <199807161303.IAA05913@shooter.bluemarble.net> In this case a simple look at the U.S. Constitution should suffice. It is utterly illegal for one state to tax imports from another state. Although there were important other reasons (I have read many Federalist Papers and a book of Anti-Federalist Papers as well) I was taught in my 7th grade Civics class that our new nation's most clamorous need to replace the Articles of Confederation was that states made their citizens pay tariffs on goods from other states whether brought in by the owner or by post or by any other means. Of course not every provision of the Constitution is fully in force, eg the requirement that revenue bills originate in the House rather than the Senate and the requirement that a full accounting be given for all monies spent. Marvant Duhon On Thu, 16 Jul 1998, Michael K. Smith wrote: > Everybody wants a piece of the action... In 15+ years, I have NEVER charged > sales tax for my services, working in both Texas and Louisiana, and no one > has ever questioned it -- not an author, not a publisher, and not the IRS. > Part of that may be that 95% of my work is for out-of-state clients. But in > the Quill Office Supply case, I believe, the Supreme Court pretty much shot > down the ability of any state to collect sales tax on money you earned in > interstate transactions. > > Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services > mksmith1@bellsouth.net > http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Indexer's Discussion Group > > [mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Marcy Brown > > Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 1998 7:53 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > > Subject: Sales tax? > > > > > > I am a new indexer in PA looking at all the forms necessary to operate > > as a sole proprietorship. I was told by the district revenue office that > > I would have to charge sales tax. Are there any Pennsylvania indexers > > out there who can verify this? Do you indexers in other states charge > > sales tax? > > > > Thanks for any info you can give me. > > > > Marcy > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 06:43:49 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Philip Montgomery Subject: USDA INDEXING COURSE I'm one of these wannabe lurkers. Trying to find out more about indexing and what's involved. Watching this list has be very helpful. HOWEVER, ahving worked for USDA for nearly 24 years this group struck a nerve recently. For your collective information: 1) USDA Graduate School is a non-appropriate affiliate of the USDA. (Gets no money from the U.S. government of the USDA -- all funds come from tuition fees.) 2) Correspondence program is directed by Norma Harwod. She can be reached at 202 720-7123 or nharwood@grad.usda.gov 3) With a little looking on the following: grad.usda.gov/corres/corpro.html you would have found information about a link labeled BBS. It contains a conference (chat group) for EDIT360 - Basic Indexing. The purpose of the chat group is to allow students and instructors to exchange questions and comments about the course and its assignments, etc.. 4) You can G&B about anything ad infinitum. Until you tell those responsible don't expect any change. USDA Graduate School is concerned about their courses and perception thereof. One of the schools early instructors back in the 1930's was a gentleman named Deming -- you'll most likely find him under: Japan, Quality Management - Master of. 'nuf said. Phil _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:45:06 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Stroup Subject: Ma. president's recovering!! Hello to all who know and love our Ma. chapter president, Susan Holbert; the good news is that she is at home and recovering from neurosurgery and will be pleased to have brief conversations and of course your cards and letters! Barbara Stroup ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 10:04:15 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Cohen Subject: Re: Chicago Manual of Style, comparison of 13th and 14th I believe that at the AAUP meeting in the year that the 14th edition of CMS was published, a list of changes was circulated (or there was a session on the topic and someone typed up some notes?). You might check with an editor who attended the AAUP meeting that year.... (I think I had a copy of some notes about the changes, but I have no idea where they are any more. If I find them, I'll let you know.) Barbara E. Cohen Indianapolis, IN ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:26:35 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: answering machines Dan Connolly wrote: > For those of you who are still relatively new and only have one phone line in > the house, what do you say on your message? Obviously, you're getting more > personal calls than professional. At this point, I'm just stating that they > reached my number and to leave a message (no name, no company name). My answering machine (in use until my second line is installed, and I get voicemail!) has a professional message on it. Since it includes my name, and since all our friends and my husband's coworkers have been informed of what I do, we haven't had any problem with personal callers being confused. I felt it was more important to sound professional and let a publisher know they had reached the right number (after all, they might be offering me a job, something my friends aren't likely to do! ) My two cents worth, Kara Pekar jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 08:34:27 -0700 Reply-To: JEANMIDD@prodigy.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JEANMIDD Organization: Prodigy Internet Subject: Re: Chicago Manual of Style, comparison of 13th and 14th I had a copy of the 13th edition until recently. When I bought the 14th edition, I gave my old copy to a friend. Then I saw Mulvany's book and wondered whether I should have kept the old one for reference. It is too late since I cannot ask for it to be returned to me. My question is Is the 13th edition still used by some as the preferred style for indexes? Jean Middleton jeanmidd@prodigy.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 11:52:38 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: Answering machines Dan Connolly wrote: For those of you who are still relatively new and only have one phone lin= e in the house, what do you say on your message? Obviously, you're getting mor= e personal calls than professional. At this point, I'm just stating that th= ey reached my number and to leave a message (no name, no company name). This is a slight problem for me because I would like to keep my message short, but I have only one phone line and also have my fax machine on the= same line. So I have to give my number, ask the caller either to leave a message after the tone or press the send button NOW for a fax (because it= doesn't work if they wait until the outgoing message ends), and also explain that if they want to reach my daughter, they can call her mobile number, and then give that number. If you make the message very brief and= brusque, it sounds unfriendly. If you try to sound informal, it can be construed as unprofessional. But so what - I don't suppose I've actually lost any work because my outgoing message sounds weird. Christine ************************************************************* Christine Shuttleworth - Indexing and Editorial Services Flat 1, 25 St Stephen's Avenue, London W12 8JB Tel/Fax (+44 181) 749 8797 email ChristineShuttleworth@compuserve.com or 106234.1745@compuserve.com ************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 11:06:59 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Weiss Subject: British Case Name I've been wondering about the best way to enter a British case name into an index. I'm indexing a publication about international tax law. One article mentions a case known as: Regina v. W & Another When I index American case names, I always put the government entity at the end of the case name. For example, if the name of the case is United States v. John Jones the index entry would be: Jones, John, U.S. v. Using that formula, how should I enter Regina v. W & Another into the index? Would it be W & Another, Regina v. Thanks for any advice. Sue Weiss Tax Analysts Arlington, VA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:20:59 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Sales tax? In-Reply-To: <199807160411.XAA04424@mixcom.mixcom.com> >Do you indexers in other states charge >sales tax? > I don't know about PA, but in NY and WI indexers don't have to charge sales tax. Is that because we provide a service rather than a product? I don't know. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 12:14:59 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: answering machines In a message dated 7/16/98 7:11:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, racric@TOGETHER.NET writes: > > I ran into that, too, and finally decided just to keep my second line (I > was exploring dropping the dedicated fax/modem line). There is way to do > it, though, with a third party voice/fax discriminator. Some work with Call > Messaging, some don't, and they range from $25 to $125. I didn't explore it > as I decided not to go that route, but the phone company actually gave me > names and numbers of the third party vendors, so you could ask. > I don't know if new "state of the art" voice/fax discriminators are better, but I've heard people say that they don't work very well. (Are not very discriminating??) I would like to hear of other's experiences, since I would like to use one _if_ they actually work reliably. Ann Truesdale ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 12:14:59 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: Sales tax? In a message dated 7/15/98 8:50:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, marcelyn@WESTOL.COM writes: > I am a new indexer in PA looking at all the forms necessary to operate > as a sole proprietorship. I was told by the district revenue office that > I would have to charge sales tax. Are there any Pennsylvania indexers > out there who can verify this? Do you indexers in other states charge > sales tax? > > Thanks for any info you can give me. > > Marcy In SC, sales tax is charged for products, not services. Indexing would certainly qualify as a service -- unless you produced an index for a book with no index, published it and sold the index yourself. I've never heard of sales tax on services, but that does not mean it's not done somewhere! Perhaps the person you talked to did not understand the nature of the indexing business? Ann Truesdale ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:18:31 -0700 Reply-To: jlee@eskimo.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeri Lee Subject: Re: Sales tax? I find this a bit curious, since around last Christmas, some mail order companies got tremendous pressure to (and finally knuckled under to) "voluntarily" paying sales tax to the state in which the customer resides. If I remember correctly, that is to begin this upcoming Christmas mail-order season. Does anyone else remember hearing about this? Jeri Lee marvant duhon wrote: > In this case a simple look at the U.S. Constitution should > suffice. It is utterly illegal for one state to tax imports from another > state. Although there were important other reasons (I have read many > Federalist Papers and a book of Anti-Federalist Papers as well) I was > taught in my 7th grade Civics class that our new nation's most clamorous > need to replace the Articles of Confederation was that states made their > citizens pay tariffs on goods from other states whether brought in by the > owner or by post or by any other means. Of course not every provision of > the Constitution is fully in force, eg the requirement that revenue bills > originate in the House rather than the Senate and the requirement that a > full accounting be given for all monies spent. > > Marvant Duhon > > On Thu, 16 Jul 1998, Michael K. Smith wrote: > > > Everybody wants a piece of the action... In 15+ years, I have NEVER charged > > sales tax for my services, working in both Texas and Louisiana, and no one > > has ever questioned it -- not an author, not a publisher, and not the IRS. > > Part of that may be that 95% of my work is for out-of-state clients. But in > > the Quill Office Supply case, I believe, the Supreme Court pretty much shot > > down the ability of any state to collect sales tax on money you earned in > > interstate transactions. > > > > Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services > > mksmith1@bellsouth.net > > http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html > > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Indexer's Discussion Group > > > [mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Marcy Brown > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 1998 7:53 PM > > > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > > > Subject: Sales tax? > > > > > > > > > I am a new indexer in PA looking at all the forms necessary to operate > > > as a sole proprietorship. I was told by the district revenue office that > > > I would have to charge sales tax. Are there any Pennsylvania indexers > > > out there who can verify this? Do you indexers in other states charge > > > sales tax? > > > > > > Thanks for any info you can give me. > > > > > > Marcy > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 10:17:57 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: francine cronshaw Subject: Re: Spanish textbooks In-Reply-To: Dear Carol, Over the past several years I have indexed several college-level Spanish textbooks for a leading publisher. Most of them have been grammar books but some have been of the readings-and-exercise variety. The population in college-level Spanish classes has experienced a major sea change. Many classes are now taught to the children of Latin American immigrants. Thus they have an excellent comprehension of Spanish but still need a thorough review of grammar points to make them bilingual professionals, with polished skills in both languages. The books tend to be entirely in Spanish (including grammar explanations) and thus an excellent command of the language would seem to be an advisable skill for the indexer. (I guess someone who isn't bilingual could do it, but my imagination bogs down when I contemplate exactly how...) Not sure if that's the kind of information you were seeking? Best, Francine Cronshaw East Mountain Editing Services (donde se habla espanol!) On Thu, 16 Jul 1998, Carol Deason wrote: > Does anyone index foreign language textbooks? > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 12:26:17 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "D. Shaw" Subject: Re: voice mail and fax programs and ISP problem In-Reply-To: <199807161328.JAA10126@camel5.mindspring.com> My voice mail tells me that I have a message with a fast-pip dial tone. If anyone knows how to tell MindSpring's dialer that this really is a dialtone, please let me know. MindSpring's Windows 3.1 dialer recognized the fast-pip dialtone. This is the only problem I have with voice mail. I haven't received a fax on my new computer yet, but on the old one I just set the fax modem to answer on the first ring; voice mail answers on the fourth. Cheers, Deborah ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 11:48:20 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "D. Shaw" Subject: Re: Sales tax? In-Reply-To: <199807161328.JAA10126@camel5.mindspring.com> I don't know about Pennsylvania, but in North Carolina sales tax is on goods, not services. If I'm indexing your book, that's a service and I don't charge sales tax whether you're in North Carolina or not. If you're buying one of my knitting patterns, that's goods and I charge sales tax. If you're outside of North Carolina and I ship it to you, I don't charge sales tax. If you're buying it at one of our semi-annual art shows, I do. Cheers, Deborah ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 12:49:14 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kim Harris Subject: Re: British Case Name How about doing both or using a see reference? There is no advice in 'Indexing Legal Materials' and I've never come across a circumstance like this. I normally leave cases to the Table of Cases or, if the case warrants separate treatment, I use it's nickname eg Cassis de Dijon decision or index the case as it's given eg Rylands v Fletcher. I hope that's of some use! Kim ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 11:52:44 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael C. Rossa" Subject: Re: Sales tax? In-Reply-To: <199807161616.LAA05558@centurion.flash.net> Marcy, I think you will find that each state differs. When I was in New Mexico, the state collected the gross receipts tax on just about all services and products (indexing included). Even all groceries at the supermarket. This is only on *in-state* sales. There were provisions for exempting income that doesn't apply. (Current New Mexicans please correct me if I am wrong.) But here in Texas I was told that I didn't need to charge sales tax if I am performing a service. If I were producing and selling a product, say a genealogical index in book form, I would have to include the tax (again, for in-state sales). So I think it is most important to be sure of the law in your own state. Hope this helps. Mike * * * * * * * * * * Michael C. Rossa Allied Editorial (972) 267-2537 (972) 267-2538 Fax rossa@flash.net * * * * * * * * * * "One must learn by doing the thing; for though you think you know it, you have no certainty until you try." --Sophocles ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 11:58:14 -0500 Reply-To: horne@fwb.gulf.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bob Horne Subject: Sales Tax I had a brush with Pennsylvania taxes when I lived there. The answer may be in how you represent yourself legally.My solution was to not set up any business entity, but to just be self-employed. All income came to me in my name, I made my deductions on Schedule C, paid self-employment tax along with my income tax, and used my Federal forms when I filed my state income tax. I didn't tell the local tax authorities I was alive. Those communities with local income taxes will get copies of your state filing, and will expect you to pay them. Agencies that tax businesses won't be informed of personal income taxes. When I lived in PA, I worked as a contractor instructor for the Office of Personnel Management and USDA Grad School (!) for twelve years, and had no state tax problems. Don't know about now, of course - I'm now in Florida which has no state income tax (and, in my area, it seems no indexers either). Bob Horne ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 13:00:29 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: British Case Name When I index case names (which isn't particularly often), I would index it as United States v. Jones, or sometimes simply Jones, if it is a well-known case in legal circles (for example, Miranda). Your method is fine as an alternative, too. I don't know what the standard is in Britain. Does anyone know? -- Sharon W. x7255 Rm. 223 > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Weiss [SMTP:Susan_Weiss@TAX.ORG] > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 1998 11:07 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: British Case Name > > I've been wondering about the best way to enter a British case name into > an > index. > I'm indexing a publication about international tax law. One article > mentions a case known as: > > Regina v. W & Another > > When I index American case names, I always put the government entity at > the > end of the case name. For example, if the name of the case is > > United States v. John Jones > > the index entry would be: > > Jones, John, U.S. v. > > Using that formula, how should I enter Regina v. W & Another into the > index? Would it be > W & Another, Regina v. > > Thanks for any advice. > > Sue Weiss > Tax Analysts > Arlington, VA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 13:21:55 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandra Topping Subject: Re: Sales tax? As a former Pennsylvanian, I would agree that sales tax is charged on products only, not services (I seem to remember some Pittsburgh mechanics getting slapped with a lawsuit for charging sales tax on labor some years ago). Probably your contact didn't understand what indexing is. Sandy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 10:24:17 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: rivka Subject: Handling many synonyms in sets of books I am indexing two sets of operating manuals, for two similar products. About two-dozen manuals. Many synonyms are used without specialization, seemingly, simply for variety. The manuals have evolved over many years, written and re-written by many writers and editors. How do you folks handle such proliferation of synonyms? For example: rank, sort, order, sequence, arrange, used interchangeably. There are so many sets of synonyms that I'm hesitating about over-use of "see also". I'm an experienced technical writer (almost 20 years), but less experienced in indexing, and haven't done one for some years. All suggestions are welcome. Please reply directly to rivka@direct.ca, and I'll summarize for the list. If this is something that has been addressed before, my apologies, I've just disovered this list. Thanks all. Rivka ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 11:02:30 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: Chicago Manual of Style, comparison of 13th and 14th I am aware of one change in Chicago. Section 17.62 (page 726) of the 14th edition recommends lowercased principal and subheadings headings unless they are proper names or adjectives. However, it does state that capitalizing all principal headings is also acceptable. Most, but not all, of my own clients have elected to follow the new capitalization recommendation. Sylvia Coates JEANMIDD wrote: > I had a copy of the 13th edition until recently. When I bought the 14th > edition, I gave my old copy to a friend. Then I saw Mulvany's book and > wondered whether I should have kept the old one for reference. It is too > late since I cannot ask for it to be returned to me. My question is Is > the 13th edition still used by some as the preferred style for indexes? > > Jean Middleton > jeanmidd@prodigy.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 12:57:34 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: April Dunne Subject: Re: Sales tax? In Indiana- last I knew, you do not pay taxes on services provided only on products. -----Original Message----- From: Carol Roberts [mailto:Carol.Roberts@MIXCOM.COM] Sent: Thursday, July 16, 1998 9:21 AM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: Re: Sales tax? >Do you indexers in other states charge >sales tax? > I don't know about PA, but in NY and WI indexers don't have to charge sales tax. Is that because we provide a service rather than a product? I don't know. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 13:00:20 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cheryl Jackson Subject: Re: Handling many synonyms in sets of books Rivka, First, I must say that I don't envy you one bit -- a project with multiple writers and editors sounds like a nightmare to me! I, for one, hate working on multi-author books, although I routinely have to do it for some of the longer books we publish here. For the synonyms, I would pick one and use it consistently in the index and have "see" references from all the other terms. Before you do that, though, make sure that there really isn't any subtle difference between the terms. Sometimes authors will seem to be using terms interchangeably, only to say in one paragraph buried in the middle of the book "These two terms are not synonymous -- xx relates to yy in such-and-such a way." If you don't find anything like that -- or, conversely, if you find a statement that "xx and yy are interchangeable" -- then it's pretty safe to use the "see" references. Hope this helps. Cheryl Jackson Macmillan Publishing ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Handling many synonyms in sets of books Author: rivka at internet Date: 7/16/98 10:24 AM I am indexing two sets of operating manuals, for two similar products. About two-dozen manuals. Many synonyms are used without specialization, seemingly, simply for variety. The manuals have evolved over many years, written and re-written by many writers and editors. How do you folks handle such proliferation of synonyms? For example: rank, sort, order, sequence, arrange, used interchangeably. There are so many sets of synonyms that I'm hesitating about over-use of "see also". I'm an experienced technical writer (almost 20 years), but less experienced in indexing, and haven't done one for some years. All suggestions are welcome. Please reply directly to rivka@direct.ca, and I'll summarize for the list. If this is something that has been addressed before, my apologies, I've just disovered this list. Thanks all. Rivka ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 15:55:31 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Annette Boehmer Subject: ASI info link I requested information at: info@asindexers.org and had my mail returned. I don't know who to contact about the link. I hope someone can pass this on to the right person. Anyone working with KEYWORDS, please E-mail me direct! Thanks, Annette Boehmer BooksEnd@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 16:16:18 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Seth A. Maislin" Subject: Re: ASI info link In-Reply-To: "ASI info link" (Jul 16, 3:55pm) Annette Boehmer wrote: > I requested information at: info@asindexers.org and had my mail returned. > I don't know who to contact about the link. I hope someone can pass this on > to the right person. Information about Key Words is available on the ASI Web site at http://www.ASIndexing.org/asipub.htm#keywords Links to the tables of contents and the editorial board are available there as well. The address info@asindexers.org should be operating as well. This is the email address for the ASI Administrative Office. (I suggest you just try again in a little while; there might be a server problem.) The editorial board listing might also help you pinpoint your desired contact. - Seth -- Seth A. Maislin (seth@oreilly.com) O'Reilly & Associates Focus Information Services 90 Sherman Street 89 Grove Street Cambridge MA 02140 Watertown MA 02172-2826 (617) 499-7439 phone (617) 924-4428 (617) 661-1116 facsimile smaislin@world.std.com URL: http://www.oreilly.com/~seth co-webmaster, Amer Soc of Indexers: http://www.asindexing.org webmaster, STC Indexing SIG: http://www.stc.org/pics/indexing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 16:33:01 +0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Engleman Subject: Indexing of digitized literature In-Reply-To: <98Jul16.005807-0400_edt.9230-4114+136@email.unc.edu> Our library is digitizing a number of texts having to do with the American South and mounting them as texts at a website, using SGML encoding, according to TEI Guidelines, in both TEI/SGML and HTML formats. All the digitized texts receive individual full-level MARC catalog records. The URL is http://sunsite.unc.edu/docsouth/about.html. We're having discussions about additional subject access to these resources. Has anyone been involved in developing a thesaurus and providing indexing for such a project? If so, I'd be very interested in hearing what you've done. I've been away for a couple of weeks and couldn't follow the recent discussion on database indexing--I apologise if this topic has been covered as part of that. Thanks ________________________________________________________________________ Roberta Engleman Rare Book Collection Wilson Library CB# 3936 University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (919) 962-1143 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 15:51:57 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Anne Taylor Subject: Re: Sales tax? At 09:18 AM 7/16/98 -0700, you wrote: >I find this a bit curious, since around last Christmas, some mail order > companies >got tremendous pressure to (and finally knuckled under to) "voluntarily" paying >sales tax to the state in which the customer resides. If I remember correctly, >that is to begin this upcoming Christmas mail-order season. > >Does anyone else remember hearing about this? > >Jeri Lee The State of Missouri already requires consumers to pay sales taxes on items ordered through catalogs and such from out-of-state. The declaration form was part of the '98 Tax Forms (1997 Individual Consumer's Use Tax Return, Form 4340.) Here, the burden of reporting falls on the buyer and not on the producer/provider. On the form itself in a paragraph headed, "Why is there a Use Tax?", it states: "The Use Tax protects your friends and neighbors who operate businesses by making sure their competitors are subject to the same rules. Because in-state businesses are required to collect sales tax, it is important that a similar tax be imposed on purchases made from out-of-state companies." This tax doesn't kick in until you've spent $2K -- which sounded like quite a bit of money, until I thought about ordering computer equipment and software via the 'Net and catalogs. Re Marvant Duhon's comments, I don't think it's been tested in court, yet. And I have no idea of how they go about checking if you bought out-of-state and how much. [...] Anne Anne Taylor University of Missouri-St. Louis ataylor@umsl.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 18:09:07 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marcy Brown Subject: Re: Sales tax? Hi Michael, Thank you for responding to my question about sales tax. I've come to the conclusion that perhaps the revenue rep didn't understand what I meant by indexing, and will seek further info from an accountant or tax attorney. I was thinking of also offering online search services, but if I have to evaluate each line of business for applicability of sales tax, I may have to rethink! Thanks again, Marcy Michael C. Rossa wrote: > Marcy, > > I think you will find that each state differs. When I was in New Mexico, > the state collected the gross receipts tax on just about all services and > products (indexing included). Even all groceries at the supermarket. This > is only on *in-state* sales. There were provisions for exempting income > that doesn't apply. (Current New Mexicans please correct me if I am wrong.) > But here in Texas I was told that I didn't need to charge sales tax if I am > performing a service. If I were producing and selling a product, say a > genealogical index in book form, I would have to include the tax (again, > for in-state sales). > > So I think it is most important to be sure of the law in your own state. > Hope this helps. > > Mike ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 18:16:47 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marcy Brown Subject: Sales Tax - THANKS! Thanks to all who responded to my inquiry about sales tax, both in PA and elsewhere. This is a most helpful group, and I now feel I have a list of pointed questions to ask an accountant or tax attorney. Thanks again! Marcy Brown ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 08:27:21 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dwight Walker Subject: book indexing course via Internet? Are there any people interested in an online book indexing course? It would be like my Web course with chat sessions and notes on a password protected Web site. There would be several classes to attend via chat and the rest would be done at your leisure in your time zone via the Web site and email. Most of you seem to prefer book indexing so an online course for book indexers seems the best fit at present. I had planned this for 1999 so the more of you interested the more effort I will put into getting it ready in time. Dwight Walker WWWalker Web Development www.wwwalker.com.au ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 15:42:50 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Knoeller Subject: Re: book indexing course via Internet? At 08:27 AM 7/17/98 +1000, you wrote: >Are there any people interested in an online book indexing course? Yes, I am. Julie Knoeller 0000,8080,8080 0000,0000,8080Sr. Technical Editor Cisco Systems, Inc. www.cisco.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 16:19:54 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: rivka Subject: Re: book indexing course via Internet? I am definitely interested, but would like to know what your credentials are for offering such a course. Please post them, direct us to them, or email them to me privately. Thanks. Rivka Arieli Dwight Walker wrote: > Are there any people interested in an online book indexing course? It > would be like my Web course with chat sessions and notes on a password > protected Web site. There would be several classes to attend via chat > and the rest would be done at your leisure in your time zone via the Web > site and email. > > Most of you seem to prefer book indexing so an online course for book > indexers seems the best fit at present. I had planned this for 1999 so > the more of you interested the more effort I will put into getting it > ready in time. > > Dwight Walker > WWWalker Web Development > www.wwwalker.com.au ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 16:22:53 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Horowitz Subject: Re: Indexing of digitized literature I would suggest you check out the many resources dealing with digital libraries. Here are a few http://www.dlib.org http://sunsite.berkeley.edu (U California Berkeley) http://www.acm.org/catalog/proceedings/dl.html You may want to also post your request to the American Society Information Science as this group is doing alot of work with digital libraries including retrieval issues. ASIS-L@asis.org Roberta Horowitz At 04:33 PM 7/16/98 +0600, you wrote: >Our library is digitizing a number of texts having to do with the American >South and mounting them as texts at a website, using SGML encoding, >according to TEI Guidelines, in both TEI/SGML and HTML formats. All the >digitized texts receive individual full-level MARC catalog records. The >URL is http://sunsite.unc.edu/docsouth/about.html. We're having >discussions about additional subject access to these resources. Has anyone >been involved in developing a thesaurus and providing indexing for such a >project? If so, I'd be very interested in hearing what you've done. > >I've been away for a couple of weeks and couldn't follow the recent >discussion on database indexing--I apologise if this topic has been >covered as part of that. > > Thanks > >________________________________________________________________________ >Roberta Engleman >Rare Book Collection Wilson Library CB# 3936 University of North >Carolina at Chapel Hill (919) 962-1143 > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 21:26:39 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: answering machines In-Reply-To: <35ADC4BB.69EC123F@neca.com> >For those of you who are still relatively new and only have one phone line in >the house, what do you say on your message? Obviously, you're getting more >personal calls than professional. At this point, I'm just stating that they >reached my number and to leave a message (no name, no company name). > >Thoughts? Dan Very simple: You have reached Directions Unlimited and Rachel Rice. Please leave a message and we'll get back to you. Shades of the Rockford Files. R Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 09:05:25 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Maria Coughlin Subject: Re: book indexing course via Internet? In-Reply-To: <199807162227.SAA32322@fh101.infi.net> Dwight: Thanks for bringing this up! I think "distance learning" (as it's called in Canada and some places in the States) is the way of the future. I wish you and your students lots of success with it. I am mildly busy with the secondary school indexing course in the Spring each year, but let me know if there is some way I can be of help with the online indexing course. I'm still thinking Tasmania in '99! The sign you distributed in Seattle is posted in the reception area of our office... Best regards. Maria ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 09:11:33 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Maria Coughlin Subject: Re: ASI info link In-Reply-To: <199807161956.PAA02119@fh101.infi.net> Annette: The address you used was just a teensy bit off. The correct address is info@ASIndexing.org. That's indexing, not indexers. Good luck. And thanks for your interest in ASI. I hope you can find a local chapter to hook up with, since that's where the heart of ASI is. Maria C At 03:55 PM 7/16/98 EDT, you wrote: >I requested information at: info@asindexers.org and had my mail returned. I >don't know who to contact about the link. I hope someone can pass this on to >the right person. >Anyone working with KEYWORDS, please E-mail me direct! > >Thanks, >Annette Boehmer >BooksEnd@aol.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 11:12:05 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Margie Towery Subject: ASI: Results of Survey on the Indexer The results of the recent survey on *The Indexer* have been tallied and responses transcribed. As soon as the ASI Webmasters have time, they will post them on the Web site (www.ASIndexing.org). Margie Towery ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 20:01:25 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Elizabeth M. Moys" Subject: English case name (?) In-Reply-To: <900648694.109524.0@listserv.cuny.edu> Susan Weiss asks about citing a 'British' case name. Please remember that there is no such thing as 'British' law - sorry to nit-pick, bit it is really very important. There is the law of England of Wales, the law of Scotland, and further legal systems in Northern Ireland, [the Irish Republic - not British, of course], the Channel Islands (2 systems) and the Isle of Man. I assume that yours is an English case, though I realise that the author of your book may not have made the jurisdiction clear! Anyway, citation follows the same pattern in all of the UK and Irish jurisdictions. Although it is not my business to do so, I have to say that I dislike your method of indexing cases. I can see that in the multi- jurisdictional context of the USA, it may well be necessary to make it clear which jurisdiction is involved, but I should have thought there would be a better way than mangling the citation (sorry, but that's what it look like to me). Could you not add the jurisdiction in square brackets at the end, or something like that? People looking for a case are all too likely to miss it, if the citation is given in the way you mention. A further point: your citation is Regina v W and Another, but we *never* use Regina in full in the citation (author's fault, no doubt). All citations, whether Rex or Regina (meaning the King or Queen, i.e. the state) are given as R v [whoever] (see Indexing legal materials, page 63). If you must reverse the parties, in order to fit in with your universal method, please put is as W and Another, R v (no full stop after R). I hope this does not sound too plonking, but you did ask! Yours Betty ==================================================================== Elizabeth M. Moys email: betty@moys.demon.co.uk Hengist, Badgers Road, Badgers Mount, Sevenoaks, Kent, TN14 7AT, England Phone & Fax: +44 (0)1959-534530 Mobile: 07771-615239 (Vodafone) ==================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 17:50:38 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Beverly Schane Subject: Why I like indexing I'm still considering whether to become an indexer or not. It would help me to hear the reasons why professional indexers enjoy their job. I enjoy reading, but don't know if that means I'll enoy indexing. Please help. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 09:47:54 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: answering machines In-Reply-To: <199807170414.XAA10227@mixcom.mixcom.com> >For those of you who are still relatively new and only have one phone line in >the house, what do you say on your message? Obviously, you're getting more >personal calls than professional. At this point, I'm just stating that they >reached my number and to leave a message (no name, no company name). > Here's mine: "Hi. If you're trying to reach Carol Roberts Indexing Services or Bob Wallace, Nina, or Meg, please leave a message after the beep. We'll get back to you as soon as possible. If you are a telemarketer, please remove this phone number from your list. Thank you." >I don't know if new "state of the art" voice/fax discriminators are better, >but I've >heard people say that they don't work very well. (Are not very >discriminating??) I have one phone line for voice, fax, modem. For some reason, my fax machine receives faxes just fine when it's set on "manual," so I haven't found it necessary to add anything to the outgoing message on my answering machine. There is one small, annoying glitch to this system. You know those telemarketing calls where the call is placed somehow automatically, you pick up and there's noone at the other end for the first few seconds (I've gotten into the practice of hanging up right away when noone says hello after I do)? When we're not home, our answering machine bristles at those calls, by recording one of those "If you're trying to make a call, please hang up . . ." things. If we're out of the house during the dinner hour, our answering machine tape is often filled up with these nonmessages by the time we get home. So when we go on vacation, we won't be able to use the toll-saver feature of the answering machine. Grrrrr. I sometimes dream of havine a machine that will respond quite differently to that electronic telemarketing signal: send a little jolt of electricity right back through the phone line. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 16:53:01 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Horowitz Subject: Telemarketing Removal In Carol Robert's last message she indicated she would like to be able to recognize telemarketer calls. Tell that is possible you can reduce the number of calls you receive from telemarkets and limit your junk mail by writing letters requesting the removal of your name/phone from mailing lists. This will not get rid of all the calls or mail but will significantly reduce the volume. Roberta Horowitz rhorowitz@acm.org To remove your name from mailing lists, send your name and complete address to: Mail Preference Service Direct Marketing Association P.O. Box 9008 Farmingdale, NY 11735 To remove your name from many telephone solicitation lists, send your complete name, address and phone number with area code to: (include both your regular number as well as the number of a second line) Telephone Preference Service Direct Marketing Association P.O. Box 9014 Farmingdale, NY 11735 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 20:09:03 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David K. Ream" Subject: Re: Telemarketing Removal You can also do this by uttering the magic phrase: Please place my phone number on your don't call list! This works. The telemarketers immediately (usually) say okay thanks and hang up. I think I heard about this on NPR. Dave Ream >In Carol Robert's last message she indicated she would like to be able to >recognize telemarketer calls. Tell that is possible you can reduce the >number of calls you receive from telemarkets and limit your junk mail by >writing letters requesting the removal of your name/phone from mailing >lists. This will not get rid of all the calls or mail but will >significantly reduce the volume. > >Roberta Horowitz >rhorowitz@acm.org > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 21:09:37 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dorothea Clark Subject: Re: Sleeping thru alarms (How to save voice mail messages forever) Just a note on sleeping through alarms -- I had that problem too until a deaf friend gave me a vibrating alarm clock. It's small enough to fit inside my pillow case, where I can feel it or hear it. If I put it on the night stand, the vibration on the wood sounds like a jack hammer, so it easily gets through to me! A colleague (who was working two 40-hour per week jobs) was having the same problem this year, so I loaned her my vibrating alarm clock which worked successfully for her too. If you want more info, I'll find out where one can be purchased. Dorothea (Dee) Clark ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 22:23:43 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nell Benton Subject: Re: Telemarketing Removal I'm with Dave. Usually I think of the poor soul who has nothing better to do for a living. But once, after a telemarketer's scripted continuance of the conversation I tried to end, I threw every single frustration that had accumulated throughout the day at him. I don't remember what I said, but whatever it was sank in. He told me politely that he would remove my name from his list. Since then, I have politely asked to be removed from lists, no matter what I'm asked. The volume of calls has fallen dramatically since then. I wonder, does removal from one list stop the list propagation somehow? Nell ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 13:28:06 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dwight Walker Subject: fix for Java freezing Windows NT 4.0, Reggie meta data editor, chat shows Go to: ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/bussys/winnt/winnt-public/fixes/usa/nt40/hotfixes-postsp 3/getadmin-fix/ and download and install admnfixi.exe. It stops your browser freezing when you load Java. This will help you when you go to the chat show at Consortium of Freelancers and Publishers (http://members.aol.com/consortims/) (I'm holding a chat at this venue on Web indexing and meta data editing at 8pm US EST Friday 24 July 1998 - 10am Australian EST Saturday 25 July 1998. If Java chat does not hold up, we are going to use ICQ. My ICQ UIN is 4631678 - www.icq.com for ICQ software). It also helps my clients using Reggie Java meta data editor from Distributed Systems Technology Centre, University of Queensland (http://metadata.net/dstc). Dwight Walker WWWalker Web Development http://www.wwwalker.com.au/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 23:31:11 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Janet Russell Subject: Re: Why I like indexing My clients are a lot nicer than the people who used to sign my paychecks. No commuting. No dress for success. I was born organized, so it's easy for me to do. If I need to take a nap in the middle of the day, I can. Janet Russell ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 13:40:57 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dwight Walker Subject: Java fix Hi I should have mentioned that fix was for Windows NT 4.0 workstation with Service Pack 3... Dwight ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 00:01:50 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah Smith Subject: Re: Telemarketing Removal In-Reply-To: <199807180004.AA045070240@mailjay.creighton.edu> On Fri, 17 Jul 1998, David K. Ream wrote: > You can also do this by uttering the magic phrase: > > Please place my phone number on your don't call list! > > This works. The telemarketers immediately (usually) say okay thanks and hang > up. > I think I heard about this on NPR. *nods* I think there might be an actual law about it or something. I have seen a "don't-call" list posted in at least one business that I worked for (pre-indexing), and I remember that the marketing people took that list _very_ seriously. Of course, they don't make this option very well known. *grin* -- Sarah Smith ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 03:17:56 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Peter Rooney Subject: Putting a periodical index on the Web wellknown nonprofit organization. First, I made an index to the 1997 issues. This index was printed and bound into the first issue of 1998. Then, based on this experience, I made a retrospective index to several years' worth of back issues. It turns out that the editors don't want to physically print this retrospective index (they say it would be too expensive); but they do want to publish it on the Web. They have a website where the latest issues of the newsletter already appear. However, the retrieval software that is used to read the newsletter is pretty primitive, so my index should make the text much more accessible. What software can be used to make this happen? Can a software package be obtained that can handle both the text and the index? Have any similar projects been recently implemented? How should the index function? Presumably there should be hot links from the index entries to the online text. I hope you INDEX-Lers can share your ideas and knowledge and specific recommendations about how to put an index and its text online. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 08:14:01 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: Why I like indexing In-Reply-To: <88082e15.35afc72f@aol.com> >I'm still considering whether to become an indexer or not. It would help me to >hear the reasons why professional indexers enjoy their job. I enjoy reading, >but don't know if that means I'll enoy indexing. Please help. Not having to get up to go to work. No driving. No other People and back stabbing and politics. Cats all around. Do what I want when I want. Learning new things that I didn't know I was interested in. Won't discuss the things I don't like as you didn't ask about that. Rachel Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 13:11:04 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nell Benton Subject: Re: Why I like indexing Indexing is a relaxing intellectual challenge. I am very shy and hate office politics so I love working at home. I detest housework so I'm never tempted to do it instead of work. Also, every job is new and different. There has never been a project I haven't learned a little something from. I hope you decide to take it on and that you'll enjoy it! You'll find a lot of support from fellow indexers. Nell ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 14:47:30 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: jwht Subject: proofs w/o a style sheet..... It is Saturday afternoon, and I would like to begin work on a highly technical set of proofs that I just received. The problem is that I have NO style sheet, or any other list of parameters. And I can't get any info until next week. What is the consensus on names in an index- this book has chapters by different authors, and each chapter has LONG bibliographies. Do you just index the authors of each and any other names of significance? Obviously, I will find out what the publisher wants next week, but wanted a guide for now. I'm new at this and appreciate any help!! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 12:52:04 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: proofs w/o a style sheet..... In-Reply-To: <199807181853.LAA09157@pacific.net> >It is Saturday afternoon, and I would like to begin work on a highly >technical set of proofs that I just received. The problem is that I have NO >style sheet, or any other list of parameters. And I can't get any info >until next week. > >What is the consensus on names in an index- this book has chapters by >different authors, and each chapter has LONG bibliographies. Do you just >index the authors of each and any other names of significance? My advice for now is to index the subject matter only, then go back through for names when you get guidelines next week. --Victoria ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 15:35:29 -0700 Reply-To: kpaparchontis@worldnet.att.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kathy Paparchontis Subject: Hist/Arch SIG membership Hi All, I would like to invite all members of the Hist/Arch SIG to renew their membership. AND to invite any interested persons to becomes members of the Hist/Arch SIG. Please contact Barbara Cohen for further information. BECohen653@aol.com Thank you, Kathy Paparchontis co-coordinator Hist/Arch SIG kpaparchontis@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 18:42:25 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Joel S. Berson" Subject: Re: voice mail and fax programs and ISP problem What about the converse - if the fax modem is enabled to pick up on the first ring and someone calls with a voice message, what happens? D. Shaw wrote: > > My voice mail tells me that I have a message with a fast-pip dial tone. If > anyone knows how to tell MindSpring's dialer that this really is a > dialtone, please let me know. MindSpring's Windows 3.1 dialer recognized > the fast-pip dialtone. This is the only problem I have with voice mail. > > I haven't received a fax on my new computer yet, but on the old one I just > set the fax modem to answer on the first ring; voice mail answers on the > fourth. > > Cheers, > Deborah ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 20:15:37 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "S. Greenhouse" Subject: Re: Why I like indexing I like this idea. I'm a database indexer, and for me indexing is like working a crossword, only I know the clues and all the words. I love information. I like knowing where things are and putting things in order. I'm an inveterate organizer. As I mentioned in an earlier post, books and albums (remember them? Big, black round things with grooves in their suface which when spun on a special turning table and with a special needle placed within those grooves played back recorded music?) and spices in alphabetical order. I love learning and using words. I like helping folks find information. Er, I even used to read the dictionary as a kid. Born indexer. Shelley Greenhouse greenhou@erols.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 17:47:41 -0700 Reply-To: jlee@eskimo.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeri Lee Subject: Re: Telemarketing Removal Yes, and if you respond with a purchase to any of them, your name goes on a special "hot list" and you get called a lot more. Senior citizens who buy from these buzzards are a particularly juicy morsel because they are usually too embarrassed by getting ripped off to make a stink about it. I started asking for a fax number from them and then faxed them notification that the use of my phone is my personal prerogative and my time was thereby offered for sale at $500 per call. Any further phone calls constituted an acceptance of my offer, would be billed as such, and I was prepared to pursue a legal judgment and collection procedures. Of course now that I want to find the actual document I faxed to them with the specific FTC cites, I can't lay my hands on it. However, I can tell you that this is a most effective means of getting your number removed from junk phone lists, even the computer generated ones. YYMV, etc. Jeri Lee Nell Benton wrote: (snip) > Since then, I have politely asked to be removed from lists, no matter what I'm > asked. The volume of calls has fallen dramatically since then. > I wonder, does removal from one list stop the list propagation somehow? > Nell ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 20:59:29 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "D. Shaw" Subject: Re: voice mail and fax programs and ISP problem In-Reply-To: <199807182250.SAA28930@camel16.mindspring.com> I only receive faxes that I'm expecting and I have to load the fax program to get them. If someone happens to call at the time I'm expecting a fax, I hustle them off the phone by promising to call them back and hope that the sending fax machine didn't get my voice mail. If someone happens to call while I'm receiving a fax, they'll be rolled over to the voice mail just like a voice call is rolled over whenever the modem is busy. I'll get their message. The problem would occur if an incoming fax were rolled over to voice mail because I'm talking to a real person who happened to call at the wrong time, and the person sending the fax was unwilling to try a second time. That has never happened. If I anticipate that situation, say if I'm expecting a fax from Africa or the UK, then I'll give out my neighbor's fax number. They have a single line, too, but no voice mail and their phone switches to their fax machine when it detects a fax signal. Then I just walk over and get it or, if I need it as a computer file, I fax it to myself. I have had problems sending a fax because I happened to get a voice mail message while I was sending, usually from the person getting the fax, to say that it wasn't there yet or was incomplete. If there's a problem with the fax, I can't try again until I clear the voice mail message, because the (&(*&^%% dialer won't recognize the stutter dialtone. Then I get in a loop, because that takes a couple of minutes and the person expecting it is in an office without a clear understanding of the limitations of working with a single phone line. While I'm clearing their first message, they call and leave a second message saying it's not there yet. Then I have to clear their new message. After a few rounds of this, I call and tell (if a friend or relative with whom I have had this conversation already) or ask politely (if a client or friend receiving an initial fax) that they NOT call me again until I've sent the fax, that I will call them to find out if they got it. That has happened. And that is why I'd really, really like to know how to tell my modem and dialer programs that the stutter dialtone really is a dialtone. I don't get that many faxes. Cheers, Deborah shawd@mindspring.com At 06:42 PM 18-Jul-98 -0700, Joel Berson wrote: >What about the converse - if the fax modem is enabled to pick up on the >first ring and someone calls with a voice message, what happens? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 20:23:00 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: BWI Subject: Re: Why I like indexing In-Reply-To: <199807172152.OAA28059@smtp1.teleport.com> I used to *suffer* from insomnia at times. Now I just *have* insomnia at times (although much less so since there are no office politics). With indexing, I can work on a book in the middle of the night and not have to pretend to be bright-eyed and bushy-tailed (taled?) by 8 the next morning. I relish concentrating for long periods of time without interruptions. I can meet with friends over coffee of an afternoon. I get as much help as I need from my Indexing Cat. I love the challenge of the field I want to focus in, even when it totally destroys my average hourly income goals. Martha Back Words Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 20:48:23 -0700 Reply-To: kpaparchontis@worldnet.att.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kathy Paparchontis Subject: why I like indesing Free Books!!!! but there must be an easier way. Really, though, I like learning about stuff. Exposure to books I normally would not read. My own hours . . . coffee when I want it . . . the look on other people's faces when they find out what I do . . . the exactness and intensity . . . having a good excuse to buy references books . . . and best of all I DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE "GENERAL PUBLIC" (of which I am a member) Kathy Paparchontis kpaparchontis@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 11:42:31 GMT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Osp Viggosdottir Subject: Hist/Arch SIG membership Hi all. >I would like to invite all members of the Hist/Arch SIG to renew their >membership. > >AND to invite any interested persons to becomes members >of the Hist/Arch SIG. Please contact Barbara Cohen for further informati= on. >BECohen653@aol.com Just what is Hist/Arch SIG??? Cheers, Osp Viggosdottir Teachers College of Iceland Main Library osp@khi.is ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ =D6sp Vigg=F3sd=F3ttir osp@khi.is tilvonandi b=F3kasafnsfr=E6=F0ingur bo=F0t. 846 3936 B=F3kasafni Kennarah=E1sk=F3la =CDslands Haraldur =EDkorni - =EDslenskt efni =E1 netinu - Svo skal vefa sem vefnum gegnir. (=EDsl. m=E1lsh.) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 06:46:54 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: Why I like indexing In-Reply-To: <199807181716.KAA26734@decibel.electriciti.com> I like indexing because it pays well. It is also a great way to relate to people, which is a great joy. I actually role play as a typical reader in making indexing choices. Many indexers are staff members. I am somewhat disturbed that freelancers such as myself should so bluntly put down colleagues who work in offices. I am a freelancer who is very people-oriented. Working at home as advanages of flexibility and physical atmosphere, I enjoy the intellectual challenge of indexing, the pride of completion, and the mixed joy of working on tight deadline. I also enjoy collaboration with authors/editors. Considering the views here, it is becoming more evident why the one ASI convention I attended was the most unfriendly gathering I have ever been at. Odd. Participating in this list has been so positive, with considerable interperson support. Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 11:05:43 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: How many in ASI? In-Reply-To: <199807081221.IAA00987@camel9.mindspring.com> > > What's the current membership count for ASI? I couldn't find anything on the > Web site about it. Dick Dick Evans infodex@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 12:28:13 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Cohen Subject: Re: Hist/Arch SIG membership The History/Archaeolog Special Interest Group (SIG) of the American Society of Indexers = Hist/Arch SIG. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 20:38:31 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Telemarketing Removal In-Reply-To: <199807180409.XAA16336@mixcom.mixcom.com> >Telephone Preference Service > Direct Marketing Association > P.O. Box 9014 > Farmingdale, NY 11735 Thanks, Roberta! I don't want to get all the way off junk mail lists, if you can believe it, because I do about 80 percent of my shopping that way. But this telephone service should be very helpful. >You can also do this by uttering the magic phrase: > > Please place my phone number on your don't call list! > >This works. The telemarketers immediately (usually) say okay thanks and hang >up. My experience has been that sometimes it works and sometimes not. No matter how many times I make that request, AT&T still calls me once a month! >I'm with Dave. Usually I think of the poor soul who has nothing better to do >for a living. Right. I'm never rude to telemarketers who are polite. But after I say, "Thank you, but I'm not interested" or "Sorry, but we don't accept telemarketing calls" if the telemarketer simply ignores what I said and continues to read the script, that's when I do get rude. I heard a great one on a clip of Seinfeld the other day. He says something like, "Tell you what. I'll call you back later and we can discuss it. Oh, you don't want to be called at home? Now you know how *I* feel!" Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 00:48:41 +0900 Reply-To: stroud@mail.netvigator.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Headley and Adrian Walker-Smith Subject: Gizmos and Design Tips >From Christine Headley Some weeks ago I asked for suggestions for layout and equipment for my new office in England. I have now put all the information received into one document, which I would be happy to pass on to anyone else who is interested. My computer will be boxed up and shipped off one week from now and I won't be online again for at least three weeks, so please put in your request straight away! -- Christine Headley stroud@netvigator.com Hong Kong ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 00:52:56 +0900 Reply-To: stroud@mail.netvigator.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Headley and Adrian Walker-Smith Subject: UK ISPs >From Christine Headley Due to my impending move, I am very interested in the relative merits of the smaller UK ISPs. I would be most grateful for any information. (I call CompuServe, AOL and Demon 'large', but comparisons would be useful.) This computer will be closing down in a week, but we will be retaining this ISP until after we get back to the UK, so information up to the end of August would be most welcome. -- Christine Headley stroud@netvigator.com Hong Kong ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 11:56:39 -0700 Reply-To: dmbrown@brown-inc.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Terminology This message is for any of you who have seen a "back-of-the-book"-style index on a web site. You know the kind I mean? They usually look something like this: A | B | C | D | E | F | G | ... | Z -A- apple apricot -B- baker bosc pear -C- cinnamon cobbler If you click on one of the letters at the top, you "jump" to the corresponding group in the body of the index. If you click on one of the words in the index, you jump to the associated web page. In trying to communicate with others about such an index, I'm dealing with two sets of often conflicting terminology: * The HTML tags used to format the index and make the hypertext links work. * The elements of a BOB index that are represented in the index. I would appreciate any and all opinions about the appropriate *indexing* terms for the various elements of such an index. In other words, what would *you* call these things? (I've tried to avoid both HTML and indexing terms in the following descriptions.) 1. The *group* of links that lead into the body of the index: A | B | C | D | E | F | G | ... | Z 2. The individual links within that group. 3. The labels on each letter group: -A-, -B-, -C-, ... 4. The alphabetized links in the body of the index: apple, apricot, baker, bosc pear, cinnamon, cobbler, ... To conserve precious Internet bandwidth, please send your replies directly to me (mailto:dmbrown@brown-inc.com). After a couple of days, I'll compile any responses and post them to the list. Thanks for taking a moment to help! --David ============================== David M. Brown -- Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com http://www.brown-inc.com ============================== ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 00:19:59 -0700 Reply-To: vbirchfield@kalesis.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Vicki Birchfield Subject: Re: How many in ASI? In-Reply-To: <199807191507.IAA25369@accessone.com> Hi Dick, At the ASI conference, I heard the number of members was about 1200. Vicki > -----Original Message----- > From: Indexer's Discussion Group > [mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Richard Evans > Sent: Sunday, July 19, 1998 8:06 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: How many in ASI? > > > > > > What's the current membership count for ASI? I couldn't find > anything on > the > > Web site about it. > > > > Dick > > Dick Evans > infodex@mindspring.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 15:46:38 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diane Worden Subject: Re: How many in ASI? The current Key Words says 1126, as of Seattle's annual mtg. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 12:52:10 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Horowitz Subject: Re: Telemarketing Removal The Sunday Los Angeles Times (Business Section) has a piece this morning on protecting your privacy. What they said about telemarketers is under The Telephone Consumer Portectin Act of 1991 you have a right to request the company to remove you from their calling lists. If the refuse, they could be fine $500.00 per call up to $1500.00 for each call after you request removal. If you can show that repeat calls are willfully the law says the fines can be doubled. The article then gives suggestions on how to enforce the law. The exceptions to the fines are companies you already do business with and non profit groups. Maybe this will help you get rid of ATT. Roberta Horowitz At 08:38 PM 7/18/98 -0500, you wrote: >>Telephone Preference Service >> Direct Marketing Association >> P.O. Box 9014 >> Farmingdale, NY 11735 > >Thanks, Roberta! I don't want to get all the way off junk mail lists, if >you can believe it, because I do about 80 percent of my shopping that way. >But this telephone service should be very helpful. > >>You can also do this by uttering the magic phrase: >> >> Please place my phone number on your don't call list! >> >>This works. The telemarketers immediately (usually) say okay thanks and hang >>up. > >My experience has been that sometimes it works and sometimes not. No matter >how many times I make that request, AT&T still calls me once a month! > >>I'm with Dave. Usually I think of the poor soul who has nothing better to do >>for a living. > >Right. I'm never rude to telemarketers who are polite. But after I say, >"Thank you, but I'm not interested" or "Sorry, but we don't accept >telemarketing calls" if the telemarketer simply ignores what I said and >continues to read the script, that's when I do get rude. I heard a great >one on a clip of Seinfeld the other day. He says something like, "Tell you >what. I'll call you back later and we can discuss it. >Oh, you don't want to be called at home? Now you know how *I* feel!" > >Cheers, > > > >Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My >Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. >Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer >http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 16:37:44 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Organization: Crossover Information Services Subject: Omar Khayyam, how to index Here's a dumb question: how would you index "Omar Khayyam?" Omar Khayyam, 85 or Khayyam, Omar, 85 or both? -- Ann Norcross Crossover Information Services (919) 852-0042 mailto:norcross@ipass.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 18:13:57 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ilana Kingsley Newby Subject: charging for compilation index I am working on a compilation index for a 6 book series. Each individual book was indexed by a different indexer and I'll be combining the six indexes into a master index. Since I'm not actually indexing the books, I can't charge a "per page" rate and will need to charge an hourly rate. I'm considering between 10-15 dollars an hour but am not sure if this is too little or too much, any suggestions? Ilana Kingsley ***************************************** * Kingsley Indexing Services * * 125 Olive Branch Church Road * * Roxboro, NC 27573 * * inewby@beryl.ils.unc.edu * * http://www.prairienet.org/~inewby * * (336) 597-5380 * ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 17:58:21 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah Smith Subject: Re: Why I like indexing In-Reply-To: <199807191351.AA237686279@mailjay.creighton.edu> I thought of freelance indexers (including myself) when I read an e-mail today from a friend. The part that made me laugh was, "Now I'm working again. [this was written on a Sunday afternoon] ... Sometimes it's cool being a compchemist, because I can work from anywhere. Other times it's a curse, because I can work from anywhere." The good/not-so-good parts of freelancing are like two sides of the same coin. The freedom to set your own schedule; the tendency to work at all hours and not give yourself the down-time you might need. The "feast-or-famine" pattern of work which sometimes happens. The ability to take a vacation when you want to, versus the fear of going away and missing out on some work (maybe this is just me!). I've been freelancing for almost two years. Every now and then, I get an offer from the "outside world" to go back into an office job. I have resisted so far, mostly because nothing has been offered that would be better (in many ways) than my current situation. I have sometimes wondered, however, what would happen if someone made me an offer I couldn't refuse. :) Have any of the freelancers on Index-L had this happen to them? If so, how did you come to a decision, or was there no question at all that you wanted to remain a freelancer? Did you make a "Pro and con" list? Have any of you indexed for a while (as a freelancer), then done something else, and then gone back to indexing? I worked in offices for many years, and I do like people. When I realized I've been indexing for days without setting eyes on another adult's face, I drive to the bagel shop or the grocery store to get a little human contact! But I also love working alone and having long stretches of time when I can concentrate on one thing. I love reading books that I would not ordinarly read. I love to organize their concepts into a user-friendly form. I love wrestling with myself over the best, or at least "better," way to present a concept. I enjoy striving to make each index not just adequate/usable, but elegant and well-structured. I like working with editors. I've never met one yet that wasn't friendly, helpful, and knowledgeable. I also like explaining my job to other people, most of whom have never considered how an index comes into being. I feel like I'm doing a bit of education and P.R. whenever someone asks my occupation. (However, I do meet people who can't quite believe that this is (a) enjoyable, or (b) something I'd want to do for a long time. The latter group tend to think that freelancing sounds "fun, but not reliable" and that I must want to work my way "up" to a "real job." Ergghhhh.) Since I have a small child, I also enjoy the flexibility of being able to take care of him if he gets sick without chipping away at "sick leave" or having to call in and justify my absence to someone else. Another thing I love about indexing is the helpfulness of other indexers. This list is a good example of that. No matter what ungodly hour it is, if you're working on an index and you're stuck on something, it seems there's some other indexer (awake late like you, or enjoying the next day in Australia) who can come up with an answer almost right away! I haven't been able to go to a national ASI conference yet, but I'm planning to be in Indianapolis next year. :) -- Sarah Smith ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 19:12:56 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: Omar Khayyam, how to index At 04:37 PM 7/19/98 -0400, Ann Norcross wrote: >Here's a dumb question: how would you index "Omar Khayyam?" > >Omar Khayyam, 85 > That's the one. Old names (Omar Khayyam, 1048?-1131) like this are not inverted. [Webster's Biographical Dictionary (1995), p. 782; Chambers Biographical Dictionary (1997), p. 1396.] There is an accent over the last "a," too. ***************************************** Cynthia Purdy Bertelsen Freelance Indexer Bertelsen Indexing Services cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.usit.com/cbertel/ ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 19:30:24 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: charging for compilation index In-Reply-To: <199807192256.SAA19850@camel26.mindspring.com> At 06:13 PM 7/19/98 -0400, you wrote: >I am working on a compilation index for a 6 book series. >Each individual book was indexed by a different indexer and I'll be >combining the six indexes into a master index. > >Since I'm not actually indexing the books, I can't charge a "per page" >rate and will need to charge an hourly rate. I'm considering between >10-15 dollars an hour but am not sure if this is too little or too much, >any suggestions? Too little by at least half. Dick Evans ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 19:12:12 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Organization: Crossover Information Services Subject: Re: Omar Khayyam, how to index THANKS, Cynthia! Cynthia Bertelsen wrote: > > At 04:37 PM 7/19/98 -0400, Ann Norcross wrote: > >Here's a dumb question: how would you index "Omar Khayyam?" > > > >Omar Khayyam, 85 > > > > That's the one. Old names (Omar Khayyam, 1048?-1131) like this are not > inverted. [Webster's Biographical Dictionary (1995), p. 782; Chambers > Biographical Dictionary (1997), p. 1396.] There is an accent over the last > "a," too. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 19:46:20 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: Omar Khayyam, how to index I neglected to add that a cross-reference should be made from Khayyam, Omar to Omar Khayyam. (I actually feel that this was implied, however. ;->) At 04:37 PM 7/19/98 -0400, Ann Norcross wrote: >Here's a dumb question: how would you index "Omar Khayyam?" > >Omar Khayyam, 85 > That's the one. Old names (Omar Khayyam, 1048?-1131) like this are not inverted. [Webster's Biographical Dictionary (1995), p. 782; Chambers Biographical Dictionary (1997), p. 1396.] There is an accent over the last "a," too. ***************************************** Cynthia Purdy Bertelsen Freelance Indexer Bertelsen Indexing Services cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.usit.com/cbertel/ ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 19:57:24 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Andy Rooney: AAARRRRRGGGHHH!! I just watched Andy Rooney on Sixty Minutes. In his usual curmudgeonly fashion, he was taking the magazine industry to task for making the tables of contents hard to find. OK, fine so far. I have the same complaint. He then went on to refer to the TOC as "the index" and continued to use the terms interchangeably several times. Andy, Andy, Andy. Surely you know better. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 20:05:23 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Cohen Subject: Re: charging for compilation index Ilana, Ditto to Dick's comments. You need to charge at least $30.00 per hour, because compilations are notoriously full of little problems (like what if the original indexers were not rigorous about maintaining the same rules and vocabulary throughout). Compilations done by computer (which just merges the files) might be done cheaply, if no one is going to evaluate the utility of the final product. But a fully evaluated "compilation" index sometimes requires even more thinking than an original index, because half of your time is spent wondering why one indexer did things one way, another another way, then figuring out how to reconcile the differences. Barbara E. Cohen Indianapolis, IN ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 20:09:09 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Cohen Subject: Re: charging for compilation index (Ooops. Hit the send button before I was done editing my response.) In addition, the compilation will have more subheading and synonym problems than a single book's index. There is no way of knowing how many new subheadings you will have to create because of simple entries in the separate indexes become mega-entries in the compilation. In other words, if the same entry appears in every book, you will have 6 or more page numbers and suddenly you will need subheadings for the new index. Barbara E. Cohen Indianapolis, IN ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 20:26:38 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: charging for compilation index Ilana, Ditto to all comments so far. One caution. It is extremely important to estabish boundaries at the outset, so that the client and you are both clear about whether you are responsible for reindexing poorly indexed portions, whether you will "fix" the index but *not* reindex at all, whether you will create and delete subheads, what you will check and what you will not, etc. The situation is fraught with difficulties if expectations are not set out up front. I might add that doing so clarifies the task list, which can be very helpful in helping your client see why you are asking the rate you are asking -- ie, it justifies what you are doing as a lot of work. Additionally, if there are negotiations over pay rate, or budget constraints on the client's part, then you can go to Plan B and say "I can do this and this and this for that rate, but not that." BTW, I work up a sample, and based on my time estimate, I charge by the volume for compilation. In other words, it is a flat fee job, so that the client knows how much he is into from the get-go. Your client may find this a more comfortable approach. Nothing wrong with hourly, if you can get the client to go for it, but some balk at the open-ended quality of it all, and may have budget constraints, or a top figure you need to be careful of, but which he/she will be loath to make you aware of. Hope this helps. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 18:28:55 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Vicki Subject: Re: charging for compilation index Ilana, Ditto all the other comments. My .02 is to remember that your hourly rate has to cover you overhead expenses, etc. Keep in mind that you have to pay self-employment tax in addition to the regular federal and state income taxes. At $10-15/hour, you won't clear more than you'd make at McDonald's. Vicki ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 21:53:19 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bonnie Taylor Subject: Re: Why I like indexing << The part that made me laugh was, "Now I'm working again. [this was written on a Sunday afternoon] ... Sometimes it's cool being a compchemist, because I can work from anywhere. Other times it's a curse, because I can work from anywhere." >> This reminds me of the benefits and negatives of working at home with kids around. I've been working at home on a part-time basis since my 6 yr old was a baby. Other people seem to think that it is so neat (and in a lot of ways it is!), but sometimes I don't think they see the downside. Sometimes I think that a nice daycare center has to be better than the same Barney video for the fourth time that day! Also, there isn't as much separation between work time and home time. I quite often feel like I am sneaking off to work in much the same way that other people sneak away to smoke, drink, or fool around! It's easy to let work creep into the quiet moments that wouldn't be work time for someone with an outside job. For two years, I was writing a book on education law--I will never forget writing over 1000 words the day I went into labor with my daughter! I even put something in the preface thanking my kids "who have probably been wondering what I've been up to in the basement." :) Bonnie Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 20:29:28 -0700 Reply-To: nkoenig@sprynet.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Nicholas W. Koenig" Subject: Re: charging for compilation index I certainly agree that $30/hr. is a fair rate and I have charged this for indexing. Given the often intense, intellectual effort involved in producing a quality index, I think anything less is unreasonable. However, I have done a number of indexes for dense, scholarly books at a per page rate fixed by the publisher. I have never been able to write the index fast enough to clear more than $12-15 an hour. I know of at least two large publishers that pay around $2 per indexed page. I know I'm a slow reader, but I was just wondering if anyone out there makes good money on indexes with such low per page rates. Perhaps I can only hope that my speed will significantly increase over time. In any case, I'd rather index than work at McDonald's. Nick ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 20:46:44 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Why I like indexing In-Reply-To: <199807180409.XAA16336@mixcom.mixcom.com> I've been enjoying the responses to this question. Although a few people have talked about what they like about indexing per se, most of the responses seemed to be about the advantages of the freelance life. Anyway, I'm not sure you're going to find out whether you'll like indexing just by hearing from people who do like it. You won't really know until you try it yourself. You don't necessarily have to commit to a new career in order to find out; you can do a few practice indexes. I think you're quite right in your suggestion that loving to read doesn't necessarily mean you'll love to index. As for me, I love: the creativity involved the variety learning something new with each project tinkering with words being fussy and having that be OK Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 04:29:24 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: Re: Why I like indexing In reply to the question as to why we like indexing, Sarah Smith, in a thought-provoking message, wrote: Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kim Harris Subject: Re: Why I like indexing Dear Christine I quite agree with your comments. I always dread people asking me what I do and am astonished that people seem to have no idea that someones actually needs to write an index. I think they appear out of the ether or, more commonly, that computers do it. It's even more odd that poblishers want to pay you for it! But I'd never go back and work in an office. I may have to work longer hours but I don't have to commute. I can and do go on holiday. I even like law (really odd!). Here's hoping the Summer lasts! (It's just arrived in London - only visiting, I dare say). best wishes Kim ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 08:22:27 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Stroup Subject: hourly compilation rate Ilana: Your question regarding an hourly rate mentioned $10-15/per hour. This is not a survival wage for a self-employed individual. Graphic artist freelance rates are around $60-80 per hour and we all know what the individual lawyer might charge. For a start at determining what you need to make per hour, see "Freelancers on Starting and Maintaining and Indexing Business," ASI publication. Also note that in a 1994 survey, average annualized salaries + benefits ranged from $36,800 to 62,660 for librarians at all levels and 55, 200 for tech writers. Barbara Stroup ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 06:02:46 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: what IS an indexer? In-Reply-To: <199807200959.CAA01356@decibel.electriciti.com> I never would have guessed that folks would respond as they shockingly consistenly do when i say i am a copyeditor and indexer. "What's an indexer?" Me: Well i complile the section at the back of the book: You know: the alphabetical listing of what's in the book. . . . . . Response (huffily): I KNOW what an index is! time after time after time after time. Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 08:05:16 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah Smith Subject: Indexing, reasons for liking In-Reply-To: <199807200830.AA110643422@mailjay.creighton.edu> On Mon, 20 Jul 1998, Christine Shuttleworth wrote: > So what do we say to people who say: > "Indexing? That sounds really boring." > "Sooner you than me." > "You actually enjoy indexing?" I've even had someone say, "I think my brain would gnaw its way out of my head from pure tedium if I tried to do that." Sheesh! (My reply: "Then I don't recommend this as a career for you!") I have had all the ones you mentioned as well... and I even met someone who, after hearing what I did, thought I did this as a volunteer service for publishers. I did a bit of Indexing P.R. then (after I picked myself up off the floor and wiped the tears of laughter from my eyes). He'll RESPECT indexers after this, by gum. :) > How can these people be so rude? I would never tell an accountant, for > example, that I would rather be torn apart by wolves than be an accountan= > t. Nor would I tell someone who works at home how wonderful it must be, how easy, and how lucky I am to have found work that lets me do that (implication being that I just laze about all day in my bathrobe, occasionally doing a bit of work). Nor would I call a person with a home office, a person who has deadlines to meet, and ask them for a favor that would be an immediate inconvenience (like driving someone to the airport) and explain, "Well, I figured you'd be at home anyway, so you'd have time." (This really happened!) To be fair, however, I've had just as many people marvel over the idea of freelancing, and even more so, be intrigued at the concept of indexing. I even got sidetracked on the phone with a Southwestern Bell person, while I was ordering my new phone line. She found out what I do and she asked me numerous questions. We had a really good talk! -- Sarah Smith ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 08:16:03 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: charging for compilation index In-Reply-To: <199807192256.SAA21759@mail3.bellsouth.net> I think you're *way* undervaluing yourself. I get a MINIMUM of $30/hr for ANY kind of editing or indexing work, and I'm planning to raise that in the next few months. Combining six indexes done by other people is probably going to be more actual work (ie, drudgery) than doing the equivalent in original indexing. You'll have to regularize the word choices of your predecessors, probably recheck pagination, and do a lot of copyediting at the end.... Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net ICQ #15741870 http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds > -----Original Message----- > From: Indexer's Discussion Group > [mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Ilana Kingsley > Newby > Sent: Sunday, July 19, 1998 5:14 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: charging for compilation index > > > I am working on a compilation index for a 6 book series. > Each individual book was indexed by a different indexer and I'll be > combining the six indexes into a master index. > > Since I'm not actually indexing the books, I can't charge a "per page" > rate and will need to charge an hourly rate. I'm considering between > 10-15 dollars an hour but am not sure if this is too little or too much, > any suggestions? > > > Ilana Kingsley > > ***************************************** > * Kingsley Indexing Services * > * 125 Olive Branch Church Road * > * Roxboro, NC 27573 * > * inewby@beryl.ils.unc.edu * > * http://www.prairienet.org/~inewby * > * (336) 597-5380 * > ***************************************** > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:24:47 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Deborah Shaw Subject: Re: Why I like indexing In-Reply-To: <199807200830.EAA20836@camel9.mindspring.com> At 04:29 AM 20-07-98 -0400, Christine S. wrote: >So what do we say to people who say: >"Indexing? That sounds really boring." >"Sooner you than me." >"You actually enjoy indexing?" My (least) favorite: "I thought computers did that now." I think we should ask Miss Manners to suggest a response. Cheers, Deborah ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:40:03 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Nancy A. Guenther" Subject: Re: Putting a periodical index on the Web I haven't noticed anyone responding to your question (maybe they wrote directly to you?). My experience is limited, so I hope others add. Sky Index will create an HTML file from your index entries. This is done by setting the Output Format for Index Options to HTML. The default HTML settings will create a file that is an index without links. I didn't work out all the details but you could adjust the codes in the Options dialog box to create this. The other way I have created an index with HTML is to use WordPerfect's merge capability. Each record in the data file was one entry. Each records had fields for items like heading, subheading, URL, title, etc. The form file had the HTML code I needed. By sorting before merging I had a index listing that needed only minor clean-up of HTML code. Hope this helps, Nancy Guenther nanguent@chesco.com > Then, based on this experience, I made a retrospective index to >several years' worth of back issues. It turns out that the editors >don't want to physically print this retrospective index (they say it >would be too expensive); but they do want to publish it on the Web. >They have a website where the latest issues of the newsletter already >appear. However, the retrieval software that is used to read the >newsletter is pretty primitive, so my index should make the text much >more accessible. > What software can be used to make this happen? Can a software package >be obtained that can handle both the text and the index? Have any >similar projects been recently implemented? How should the index >function? Presumably there should be hot links from the index entries >to the online text. > I hope you INDEX-Lers can share your ideas and knowledge and specific >recommendations about how to put an index and its text online. > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 07:48:06 -0600 Reply-To: aelser@uswest.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Art Elser Organization: U S WEST Communications Subject: Re: Why I like indexing Are we taking ourselves too seriously? I'm a technical writer (technical communicator) by profession and have the same trouble explaining to someone what I do. But is that really important? Will the world come to a screeching halt if someone either can't figure out what I do, thinks a computer does it automatically, or thinks it the most boring human activity ever attempted? What is important is what I think about it and how creative I find the work. If we look to others for proof that what we do is important, then I think we're lloking in the wrong places. I love my work and wouldn't trade it for any other occupation--except perhaps as a world famous, rich, and every popular novelist, poet, or non-fiction writer. :-) Getting distressed over what others think of indexing or technical writing is counterproductive and demeaning to ourselves. People who use indexes know what we do and appreciate it when we do a good job, just as people who use accountants know what they do and appreciate it when they do a good job. Remember, many people haven't looked at an index since high school or college. Job satisfaction must come from within ourselves or it's transitory, disappearing with the next person who says it must be boring. Just my $0.02. art elser ================================================================== Art Elser (303) 965-4825 aelser@uswest.com Information Developer, U S WEST There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts. Illusions, Richard Bach =================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:07:33 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: what IS an indexer? Pam Rider wrote: > I never would have guessed that folks would respond as they shockingly > consistenly do when i say i am a copyeditor and indexer. > > "What's an indexer?" > > Me: Well i complile the section at the back of the book: You know: the > alphabetical listing of what's in the book. . . . . . > > Response (huffily): I KNOW what an index is! In response to the same (inevitable) question or comparable blank look, I reply, "I write indexes for the back of books." This usually elicits some variation of "I never knew there were people who did that." Sometimes it gets into a discussion about why a computer-generated "index" isn't adequate, and/or why many authors don't prepare their own indexes. Sometimes I'm asked how I get jobs, or what the process is like. And sometimes the other person simply replies "Oh," in a flat tone of voice that conveys their utter disinterest in knowing anything further. But at least half of the people I talk too think that indexing sounds interesting and challenging -- though they're glad they don't have to do it! Kara Pekar jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:11:17 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kim Harris Subject: Re: Indexing, reasons for liking One of the problems I have is as you describe (Sarah Smith's e-mail). I have trouble with friends who aren't working full-time popping around and friends who are working, ringing me because they're bored (they actually say this). I've cut it down to a minimum, I think, by using my ansaphone to screen calls but this is not very professional for publishers. What do other people do? Kim Harris ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:12:13 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: Why I like indexing Art Elser wrote: Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bonnie Taylor Subject: Re: Indexing, reasons for liking << To be fair, however, I've had just as many people marvel over the idea of freelancing, and even more so, be intrigued at the concept of indexing. I even got sidetracked on the phone with a Southwestern Bell person, while I was ordering my new phone line. She found out what I do and she asked me numerous questions. We had a really good talk! >> That has generally been my experience as well. In fact, I think I should start getting a commission from USDA! My cousin is taking their class, and my mom and one of my good friends are considering it. My sister's best friend (Hi, Kari!) is also getting into the indexing business. Of course, MY best friend said that she would sooner shave her head with a cheese grater than index. But if you can't say that stuff to your best friend, who can you say it to? :) Bonnie Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:31:07 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: rivka Subject: Thank you on Synonyms Thank you so much to everyone who advised me on treating synonyms and their ilk. In summary: cross-reference synonyms to one term. But check for subtleties in context and in meanings. Where differences occur in context, use parentheses to qualify and differentiate. Most grateful to all of you. Rivka Arieli ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:00:14 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: rivka Subject: Netscape 4.5 as Indexer! Following a recent posting about the growing need for indexers as the information retrievers and organizers of the web, I think indexers may be extremely interested in the power of the new version of Netscape: version 4.5. I found the following message on Techwr-L, and am cross-posting it with the permission of the original poster, Bill Bledsoe. Here it is. From: Bill Bledsoe Subject: multi-search tools Jim, All I'll tell you what... I may never need another metasearch or search engine ever again after yesterday. If you haven't gotten the first public beta of NS Communicator 4.5, you oughta! SmartBrowse is AWESOME!!! And... it really makes you think about how you have your site domain registered too... For those of you who don't know... Netscape has come up with a way that you can forget about entering URL's into the location bar, and just enter the name of the place you want to go... like say Framemaker.... keyword.netscape.com does the rest! If the site is in the database, boom, you're off to framemaker.com. If it is not in the database as framemaker.com, Boom! you get a list of search results on Framemaker from Netcenter NetSearch (powered by Excite). (by the way... framemaker IS in there... as well as Dreamweaver, Microsoft, Sun, Ford... that's all I could think of trying off the bat.) We showed this technology to our most novice users, and our most advanced users, and all clammored greatly. Frankly, I've never seenuser's eyes get so wide over software! If Netscape pulls this off completely (has a coverage rate on par with the rest of the search engine/portals), this will change the user experience of the Web completely in my humble and worthless opinion. And then... how about applying this technolgy to Online Doc??? whew boy! The times are changin' fast... isn't it fun! that's my $.02 worth... as always YMMV. -bb ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:19:02 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Drew Proctor Subject: Re: Why I like indexing In-Reply-To: <199807191358.GAA17117@oneworld.owt.com> I had to chuckle a little at Pam's comment on the ASI conference she attended. I'm just a wannabe at this point, but I attended the conference in Seattle and really enjoyed the people. I found them much friendlier than most of the participants at library conferences I've attended which I attributed to most indexers being self-employed and, therefore, not so inclined to posturing. Wanting to avoid working with the general public isn't the same as not liking people! Pam, I'm sorry your experience wasn't a good one. Try it again sometime and maybe it will be more enjoyable. I can't make it to Indianapolis next year but I'll be looking forward to my next ASI conference. Drew Proctor Kennewick, WA On Sun, 19 Jul 1998, Pam Rider wrote: > I like indexing because it pays well. It is also a great way to relate to > people, which is a great joy. I actually role play as a typical reader in > making indexing choices. > > Many indexers are staff members. I am somewhat disturbed that freelancers > such as myself should so bluntly put down colleagues who work in offices. > > I am a freelancer who is very people-oriented. Working at home as advanages > of flexibility and physical atmosphere, > > I enjoy the intellectual challenge of indexing, the pride of completion, > and the mixed joy of working on tight deadline. I also enjoy collaboration > with authors/editors. > > Considering the views here, it is becoming more evident why the one ASI > convention I attended was the most unfriendly gathering I have ever been > at. Odd. Participating in this list has been so positive, with considerable > interperson support. > Pam Rider > Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth > prider@electriciti.com > prider@tsktsk.com > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 13:27:44 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Why I like indexing I've hung back, waiting to see what others will post. My contribution: I thoroughly enjoy the act of creating the index. When I finish a project, I can't wait to jump into the next one. In fact, often I promise myself a break, and end up back at my desk much sooner than expected ..... because I can't wait to delve into the next book and see what challenges it holds for me. I find my work creative, and each index is a creative act for me. I enjoy the process, and I marvel at the end product sometimes. The whole thing excites me, even after many years of producing indexing, and knocking them out one after the other. In short, I love what I do. I enjoy it while I do it, and the time often flies by. [right now we're not discussing the deadline crunches, and the ensuing long hours .... which detract from the enjoyment, to be sure] Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 13:40:57 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Melinda Davis Organization: Univ. of Tennessee College of Law Subject: Re: Why I like indexing, responding to responses This seems like a classic example of "half-full, half-empty." I'm quite sure that, now and then, I've said, more or less, "I don't know how you do [fill in the blank] all day. I'd go crazy," and goodness knows, people have said it to me many times. I never meant to be rude, nor I did think that they meant to either or to imply that that there was anything "wrong" with them or me that we not only did [fill in the blank] all day, but liked doing [fill in the blank] all day. In fact, I would go so far as to say that I meant it (and perceived it) as a compliment. On the other hand, there are certainly plenty of people in this world who feel threatened by what they don't understand, and I'm sure that, from time to time, people did not intend it as charitably as I took it. I think it's one of those things, like death and taxes, that we must accept as an inevitable fact of life. Didn't somebody (like Emerson) say "To be great is to be misunderstood"? We must be very great indeed! While we wait for the proper retort from Miss Manners, may I suggest this one which I shamelessly lifted from somebody's e-mail signature several years ago: "It's a good thing we don't all like the same things. Just think what a shortage of oatmeal there would be." I was delighted to find it since I had grown tired of "that's why they make chocolate AND vanilla." Melinda Davis P.S. Actually I think the few times that anyone has gushed over any of the jobs that I've had, it later became apparent that they didn't really understand it (example: if you work in a library or a bookstore, you get to read ALL DAY). ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 14:28:10 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: Why I (might) like indexing Sarah Smith's delightful note reflects a few of my own feelings. After being on this list for over two years -- mostly lurking -- I suspect now that I'll never become an indexer, even though I seem to have all the qualifications required by current wisdom [mainly, my workspace is totally inadequate: OK for an electronics shop but unusable for editing, publishing or indexing]. My particular personality glitch is that I do not like people; or perhaps I should say "the public" rather than "people" in general. Always I have preferred working "backstage" -- quite literally in theater work: did lighting design for a while -- since in that envi- ronment I must only work with my colleagues and other professionals. At least, even if we might disagree and snarl at each other we can speak the same language. Perhaps my choice of isolation is flawed, but "what works, works". However, I do follow Sarah's guidelines about occasionally changing one's environment or mileu in a "social" manner. When I was an acitve harpsichordist we frequently held informal chamber concerts, perhaps biweekly. Or I would visit musical friends at their homes to play duets together. Sarah has reminded me by her note that I am probably not doing enough "extracurricular" activity. Thank you, Sarah. Cheers, Dave T. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 20:18:35 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Sutherland Subject: Re: Indexing, reasons for liking The message <199807201307.OAA16629@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> from Sarah Smith contains these words: > On Mon, 20 Jul 1998, Christine Shuttleworth wrote: > > So what do we say to people who say: > > "Indexing? That sounds really boring." > > "Sooner you than me." > > "You actually enjoy indexing?" > I've even had someone say, "I think my brain would gnaw its way out of my > head from pure tedium if I tried to do that." Comments like these probably come from people who think all you have to do is lift words/names out of the text and put them in alphabetical order. But another point is that it's all too easy for book-lovers to forget that for many people books just aren't important/interesting. I grew up in a house filled with books, where reading was almost as necessary to everyday life as eating and drinking. Next door lived a family whose daughter (then in her fifties) once cheerfully told my mother that she hadn't read a book since she left school. One person's meat ...! -- Linda Sutherland linda.sutherland@zetnet.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 15:28:29 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barry Koffler Subject: Re: what IS an indexer? In-Reply-To: <199807201306.JAA22572@ulster.net> >"What's an indexer?" > >Me: Well i complile the section at the back of the book: You know: the >alphabetical listing of what's in the book. . . . . . > >Response (huffily): I KNOW what an index is! > >time after time after time after time. > >Pam Rider >Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth But they do make that difficult sometimes, don't they! -Barry oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo barkof@ulster.net Barry Koffler mid-Hudson Valley, NY the FeatherSite at http://www.feathersite.com/ lead me not into temptation . . . I can find it myself. oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 15:31:04 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barry Koffler Subject: Re: charging for compilation index In-Reply-To: <199807201319.JAA23549@ulster.net> >I think you're *way* undervaluing yourself. I get a MINIMUM of $30/hr for >ANY kind of editing or indexing work, and I'm planning to raise that in the >next few months. Combining six indexes done by other people is probably >going to be more actual work (ie, drudgery) than doing the equivalent in >original indexing. You'll have to regularize the word choices of your >predecessors, probably recheck pagination, and do a lot of copyediting at >the end.... > Ask any contractor whether they'd rather build you a house or do a renovation. Redoing and/or combining indexes is much more work most of the time than doing the darn things from scratch. -Barry oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo barkof@ulster.net Barry Koffler mid-Hudson Valley, NY the FeatherSite at http://www.feathersite.com/ lead me not into temptation . . . I can find it myself. oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 15:26:31 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barry Koffler Subject: Re: Why I like indexing In-Reply-To: <199807192309.TAA11193@ulster.net> > The ability to take a vacation when you want to, >versus the fear of going away and missing out on some work (maybe this is >just me!). > This seems to me to be a universal problem/fear among free-lancers. >I would never tell an accountant, for >example, that I would rather be torn apart by wolves than be an accountant. To each their own - =I;-) I'm very unfond of accounting, but given that choice . . . -Barry oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo barkof@ulster.net Barry Koffler mid-Hudson Valley, NY the FeatherSite at http://www.feathersite.com/ lead me not into temptation . . . I can find it myself. oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 17:46:09 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Organization: Crossover Information Services Subject: IMMEDIATE NEED: Experienced Indexer I need an indexer for a 700-page book about Microsoft Exchange Server. It is a technical book, preparing the reader to take the Microsoft certification exam. I need someone to index the book from scratch, delivering the completed index to me on Monday, July 27, before noon EST. I can pay you $2.30 per page. Experienced computer-book indexers only, please. And if you are approved to work for Coriolis, that is a wonderful thing! Please call me, night or day! at 919.852.0042 if you can take this job. -- Ann Norcross Crossover Information Services (919) 852-0042 mailto:norcross@ipass.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 18:36:54 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Beverly Schane Subject: Re: IMMEDIATE NEED: Experienced Indexer I'm just curious. Is this typical? Someone needing an index done in 1 week on a 700 page book? AND only paying $2.30 a page on such a rush job? I also thought technical books were paid at a higher rate. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 15:47:09 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: rivka Subject: Sort order in phone books Does anyone know if there are standards for the sort order in telephone directories? If there are, what standards exist? US Canadian European Australian International ISO ANSI BSA CSA other? Thanks for any help anyone can give. Rivka ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 18:56:13 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Oh no, once again, why I like the process of indexing... At the risk of this thread becoming one of those of which people say, "Oh no, not ANOTHER post on a tired subject!," I would like to add a few points to the discussion on why indexing as a career is a great choice for some people: I agree with Carol Roberts that most of the discussion so far has skated around the concept of the joys of freelancing rather than focusing on the process of indexing per se. Carol's observation is one of the things that makes a good indexer: by stating that the discussion was centering on freelancing, and not on the actual practice of indexing, Carol acted as an indexer in that she picked out implicit concepts in the discussion. Mulvany discusses this idea of implicit concepts, and it is one of the major reasons I like indexing. Trying to put words on concepts that people might look up is a constant challenge, and it allows me (for one thing) to use my ever-growing library of reference books to track down related terms. Of course, I always use the author's terminology, but many times it is clear that index users might use other terms, hence the need for cross-referencing and synonymous terms. In multi-authored works, synonymous terms used by different authors can be a major problem--as an indexer, I enjoy that kind of challenge, e.g., putting order on something relatively unordered. That's probably it more than anything else for me in regard to indexing as a career: most of Life tends to be beyond human control, but gee whiz, I can create some order via an index, even if only for a brief shining moment! What a great feeling! By sometimes indexing works on subjects that I may have last thought about in a college freshman survey course, I learn new things all the time, too. This is one of the more exciting things about indexing. Helping a phantom reader out there somewhere, someday to find a crucial piece of information is another satisfying aspect of indexing. [Read Hans Wellisch's comments on "Personality and Skills of Indexers" in his Indexing from A to Z (2nd ed., 1995, p. 398-400).] ***************************************** Cynthia Purdy Bertelsen Freelance Indexer Bertelsen Indexing Services cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.usit.com/cbertel/ ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 16:27:18 -0700 Reply-To: jlee@eskimo.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeri Lee Subject: Re: IMMEDIATE NEED: Experienced Indexer I have to second these comments; particularly in light of the previous thread regarding someone who was combining six indexes into one, and the need to make sure you charged enough to make $30.00 per hour. By my calculations, you'd have to make just one pass at 13 +/- pages per hour to make that rate and not spend much time editing. Good luck! Jeri Lee Beverly Schane wrote: > I'm just curious. Is this typical? Someone needing an index done in 1 week on > a 700 page book? AND only paying $2.30 a page on such a rush job? I also > thought technical books were paid at a higher rate. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 20:17:57 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Beverly Schane Subject: Re: Better Book I'm a total beginner to the field of indexing. I would like some professional opinions on which book is better--"The Art Of Indexing" or "Indexing Books"? I'm thinking about purchasing one of these, getting Susuan Hoblbert's video course, and practicing on my own. I think I'm going to bypayss the USDA course. Is this a wise choice? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 22:18:59 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: Why I like indexing (What others think) Hi all, Comments about the response of the general public to "indexer" as an occupation made me think about my two former careers. I had somewhat the same problem there, although people (thought they) knew what the occupation was: 1. Worked in a biochemistry research lab. People though this was *sooo* exciting. Wrong! It was extremely repetitive and usually boring work. To top it off, my boss was a real fake, and I knew nothing useful would ever come from my efforts. 2. Veterinarian (& practice owner) for 18 years. People thought this was *sooo* nice -- spending time with all those sweet puppies & kittens. In reality it was a challenging, very stressful and >> than 40 hrs per week job. (I am not alone in thinking this. There is a pretty high burn-out rate among DVM's.) It was challenging, and I loved my good clients and their pets, and felt my work was valuable. In reality, it was the opposite extreme of job #1, and I finally had to listen to the toll taken on my body & mind. So...I'm used to people having strange ideas about my occupation. I agree with Art that what *we* think is what's important. I think some people are just ignorant and others are just looking for any excuse to "put down" anyone else. Try to inform the 1st if you want, and put miles between yourself and the 2nd type! Also... I was delighted to see Carol write (paraphrase) "I can be fussy and it's OK" as one of her reasons for liking indexing. I second that. At my vet office, I was fussy, and constantly got the message from my staff that it was *not* OK. There were some exceptions, but many just didn't want to work that hard and did not want to learn the contents of my (very organized) office manual, answers to common questions book, etc. Very frustrating to be bombarded by Q's answered in printed material given to them in Ist couple of weeks of employment! I was busy trying to do my own job(s). (And I hate interruptions!!) I think that to like indexing a person needs to enjoy organization, be detail oriented (fussy), like to work with diverse ideas & concepts, and, of course, like to read. It also helps to be comfortable with computers. Then other factors come in to whether freelance or in-house... Ann Truesdale (anntrue@aol.com) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 23:52:15 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: ROBJRICH@AOL.COM Subject: "Me? I Index Books!" Hi - Just in case there is someone out there who hasn't yet heard this apocryphal (but delightful) cocktail-party exchange: He: "What do you do?" She: "I index books" He: "Oh. I didn't know the Church still did that!" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Bob Richardson ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 01:48:16 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Tamara Butler Sorry to post this to the list, but I have tried unsuccessfully to sign off of this list. Please tell me how to sign off. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 02:31:11 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Peter Rooney Subject: ASI Constitution - Where and What Is It? * In the past few months, ASI members have been asked to vote on several constitutional amendments. One, as I remember, was about the amendment process itself. A recent one gives the ASI Board the power to set up SIGs. I am sure these amendments are well-intentioned and make for an efficient governance of ASI - in fact, I voted FOR them. One problem I have, though, is that I no longer know what the ASI constitution itself looks like, since it has been years since I've seen an up-to-date copy. Therefore, I don't know how any particular amendment may affect the entire mechanism of the constitution. ASI members are being asked to vote in the dark, in my opinion. Before any more amendments are proposed, let me urge that ASI make available to its members the complete text of the constitution as it now stands. This could easily be done by posting it on ASI's website: www.asindexing.org. (It's not there now - I checked.) *** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 01:06:28 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: what IS an indexer? In-Reply-To: <199807201411.HAA25865@pacific.net> >> "What's an indexer?" I say "you know those things... in the back of books? [they nod] I write them." "Ohhhhhh." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 06:09:45 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kim Harris Subject: Re: IMMEDIATE NEED: Experienced Indexer I've been asked to do something similar, however with a premium paid. i think the publisher has to understand that no amount of moeny can produce a good index in that time. Adequate, maybe, but only if you're very familiar with the subject and you have nothing else on (and the publisher understands the implications of what he's asking). Kim (Kim Harris, London) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 06:15:10 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kim Harris Subject: Re: indexing, not freelancing. Yes, I agree. As a legal indexer (I don't know why it's not law indexer), nine years at the coal face doing legal research in the City helped me more than I can say (perhaps even more than having been a law student myself). Kim (Kim Harris) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 06:17:02 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kim Harris Subject: Re: "Me? I Index Books!" Bob I'll be using that one! Kim Kim Harris, London ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 07:02:04 -0500 Reply-To: "jbclend@bigfoot.com" Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joanne Clendenen Organization: AfterWords Indexing Services Subject: Re: Better Book Beverly, "Indexing Books" would be the better choice for general indexing, I think. It has received rave reviews all the way around. Larry Bonura's "Art of Indexing" is ok, but it leans more toward the tech writers of the world, because that's where Larry comes from. Nancy Mulvany has been indexing a variety of topics for many years. Her book is included in the material for the first USDA indexing course. I would not recommend skipping the course, by the way, unless you are in a strong mentoring situation where you are getting practice at indexing already. Joanne AfterWords Indexing Services Joanne E. Clendenen email: jbclend@bigfoot.com http://www.flash.net/~jbclend ---------------- "Change: A bend in the road is not the end of the road... Unless you fail to make the turn." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:12:14 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Organization: Crossover Information Services Subject: Re: IMMEDIATE NEED: Experienced Indexer > I've been asked to do something similar, however with a premium paid. i think > the publisher has to understand that no amount of moeny can produce a good > index in that time. Adequate, maybe, but only if you're very familiar with the > subject and you have nothing else on (and the publisher understands the > implications of what he's asking). Kim, I'm posting this as a Reply to your post, but the content is for several people who have posted comments about my request for help... I am NOT a publisher. I am a freelance indexer in a scheduling jam. Of course I know that this is a tight deadline and low pay; I did not post all the details of why this situation is what it is, nor do I have the time or inclination to do so now. If anyone is interested in helping me out, please call me. I will not be posting further details here. -- Ann Norcross Crossover Information Services (919) 852-0042 mailto:norcross@ipass.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:41:53 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kim Harris Subject: Re: IMMEDIATE NEED: Experienced Indexer Hi, Ann! Sorry. I was replying to someone else who asked it publishers did 'this' very often. I think anyone has a right totake on any work so long as they know what they're getting into. I HAVE done urgent jobs with that kind of deadline. I think we all probably have. Best wishes Kim Kim Harris ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:44:50 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Margie Towery Subject: Re: ASI Constitution - Where and What Is It? All: You'll be pleased to know that the ASI bylaws will be in the next issue of Key Words and they will (or may be already) posted on the Web Site. Margie Towery ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:46:35 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kim Harris Subject: Re: Author's indexes Has anyone been asked to reproduce for a second edition the author's idea of the index? I was recently asked to do this. The index was dreadful and it was mainly a page number hunting exercise with a few updated passages which needed indexing. I explained my position and the publisher said that the author was very fussy and obstinate and they needed to indulge him. I did it beause it was well-paid, because I'd told the publisher how I felt and because my name wouldn't be associated with it. Should I have refused? Kim (Kim Harris) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:08:24 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Robert A. Saigh" Subject: Re: Author's indexes Kim: That's a tough call. I've done repaginations because of a new edition. I felt a little like a stenographer just taking notes because my full expertise was not called upon. My feeling is as long as not every job is as that one was, I take it. Especially if the money is good. Nine times out of ten, I can convince my client to let me do it my way and have never had complaints back from an author or authoress. But who knows? Maybe the client didn't tell me? Changing the subject, I heard that ASI may be able to offer its members health insurance at a reduced rate. Does anyone know anything about this? Robert Saigh fugleman@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:50:46 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: Author's indexes Did you get paid? No! As an in-house indexer, I understand the problems that publishers face having to deal with fussy, obstinate and eccentric authors who demand that their version of the index (and footnotes, and Table of Contents, and Table of Cases) be used exactly as they submitted it. As long as you're not being asked to endorse the index or sign your name to it, and as long as the publisher (who will be paying you) is happy with the service you provide, collect your check and be done with it. The publisher will probably appreciate the fact that you helped them out with an impossible client, which would bode well for future employment with that firm! -- Sharon W. > -----Original Message----- > From: Kim Harris [SMTP:KimIndex@AOL.COM] > Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 1998 8:47 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Author's indexes > > Has anyone been asked to reproduce for a second edition the author's idea > of > the index? I was recently asked to do this. The index was dreadful and it > was > mainly a page number hunting exercise with a few updated passages which > needed > indexing. I explained my position and the publisher said that the author > was > very fussy and obstinate and they needed to indulge him. I did it beause > it > was well-paid, because I'd told the publisher how I felt and because my > name > wouldn't be associated with it. Should I have refused? > > Kim > > (Kim Harris) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 06:12:39 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: Author's indexes In-Reply-To: <199807211300.GAA29869@jansky.electriciti.com> Your question can only be answered by you. Personally, if I am not credited in the book as the indexer, I wouldn't know the harm, as staff at a publishing house would know my work and not blame me. Authors are more important to publishers than we are. Without authors, no product. I view it as with hospitals and physicians: A hospital can't function unless physicians direct patients to rooms; but, hospitals need to be wary of physicians who make errors. I have found that updating indexes is gruesome work--even when the earlier edition has a good index. At 08:46 AM 7/21/98 EDT, you wrote: >Has anyone been asked to reproduce for a second edition the author's idea of >the index? I was recently asked to do this. The index was dreadful and it was >mainly a page number hunting exercise with a few updated passages which needed >indexing. I explained my position and the publisher said that the author was >very fussy and obstinate and they needed to indulge him. I did it beause it >was well-paid, because I'd told the publisher how I felt and because my name >wouldn't be associated with it. Should I have refused? > >Kim > >(Kim Harris) > > Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:32:40 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandra Topping Subject: Re: Author's indexes I once refused to do what I considered a "chop-job" and used rather strong language in doing so. (I had agreed to do the index on certain terms, and the editor wanted to change the terms.) Two hours later, the indexing supervisor offered me a better book at higher pay -- and complimented my integrity. NEVER mess with good Karma! Sandy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:49:31 -0500 Reply-To: rumpergj@jmu.edu Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Rumper, Gail J" Subject: name question Hi, I have a quick question about how to index a person's name. The person is referred to in the book as Calvin "Big Boy" Davis Big Boy Big Boy Davis Calvin Davis Should I include his nickname in the entry? Should it be Davis, Calvin "Big Boy" Somehow that doesn't seem right. He is a real person (not a character) who is described as an "itinerate guitar-playing roustabout" and who inspired several poems by Sterling Brown. Any assistance would be very much appreciated. Gail --- rumpergj@jmu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:45:20 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Michaud Subject: Re: ASI Constitution - Where and What Is It? In-Reply-To: <199807211421.KAA29831@mx02.erols.com> The May/June Key Words arrived in yesterday's mail, and the full text of the ASI by-laws are printed there. Christine Michaud Michaud Editorial Services cmichaud@erols.com At 02:31 AM 7/21/98 -0500, you wrote: >* >In the past few months, ASI members have been asked to vote on several >constitutional amendments. One, as I remember, was about the amendment >process itself. A recent one gives the ASI Board the power to set up >SIGs. > I am sure these amendments are well-intentioned and make for an >efficient governance of ASI - in fact, I voted FOR them. One problem I >have, though, is that I no longer know what the ASI constitution itself >looks like, since it has been years since I've seen an up-to-date copy. >Therefore, I don't know how any particular amendment may affect the >entire mechanism of the constitution. ASI members are being asked to >vote in the dark, in my opinion. > Before any more amendments are proposed, let me urge that ASI make >available to its members the complete text of the constitution as it >now stands. This could easily be done by posting it on ASI's website: >www.asindexing.org. (It's not there now - I checked.) >*** > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:13:59 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Organization: Crossover Information Services Subject: Re: IMMEDIATE NEED: Experienced Indexer Thanks to all who called and e-mailed me. I have put a fellow indexer in touch with one of my clients whose book schedule slipped beyond my abilities to adapt to it. So, there's income lost and new expenses incurred besides. BUT... I've now talked to a bunch of indexers I didn't know before, and that was a lot of fun. -- Ann Norcross Crossover Information Services (919) 852-0042 mailto:norcross@ipass.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:05:35 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lillian Ashworth Subject: MACREX Tip Re: ENTRY DELETED Message Hi all - This began as an urgent request for help; however I solved my own problem, but thought that others might be interested in the solution in the event that you run into the same or a similar problem. I'm deleting lines to meet a space limit. There were a number of lines that I wasn't sure about deleting, so I keyed them in with a "?" which shifted the lot to the end of the index. However, this proved to be a mistake because apparently if you delete a line beginning with a "?", the DELETED ENTRY message won't go away. Needless to say, this was proving to be a problem. I did everything the manual suggested. Automatic sort was turned on. I used the Combine sort and merge feature. No luck. (Much gnashing of teeth and pounding of desk.) Then I hit on the solution. 1. Open your back-up (MBK) file in your Word processing program (in my case, WORD). 2. Do a global replace of the "?" with something else (I used "aaa,"). 3. Save the edited back-up file. (I was able to do all steps without needing to change the MBK extension.) 4. Open your file directory (Explore or File Manager depending on which level of windows you have) and delete all original files belonging to the corrupted index. (This is scary, so you might want to simply move them someplace else and dump them later.) 5. Start MACREX and open a NEW index with the OLD name. 6. At the Main Menu screen, use the option to read in the Back-Up file. You will have to redo whatever changes in settings you had under the old name. But, much better than seeing all those pesky DELETE ENTRY messages hogging up your line/entry count! Voila! Those pesky little DELETE ENTRY messages are no more and, with the automatic sort feature on, you can now delete the lines without the messages coming back. Actually, I deleted those lines I knew I wanted to dump while I was still in Word. Problem solved --and all before breakfast! Now I can move forward again. (OK -- a late breakfast!) Hope this helps anyone else who has been confounded with the same problem. Lillian Ashworth ashworth@pullman.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 11:01:13 -0700 Reply-To: Elinor Lindheimer Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: apologies if necessary I'm sorry to bring this up, especially in light of the recent discussions on this list, but I want to apologize to anyone who has been trying to reach me in the last couple of days. My answering machine has gone completely bonkers. I'll be getting a new one asap!!! Elinor Lindheimer elinorl@mcn.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 14:14:01 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Joel S. Berson" Subject: Re: "Me? I Index Books!" I believe the cocktail party exchange appeared in the New York Times "Metropolitan Diary" column (a regular Monday feature) some months ago, with the name of the person reporting it attached (so it may or may not be apocryphal) -- and that I reported it to index-l. Joel ROBJRICH@AOL.COM wrote: > > Hi - > > Just in case there is someone out there who hasn't yet heard this apocryphal > (but delightful) cocktail-party exchange: > > He: "What do you do?" > > She: "I index books" > > He: "Oh. I didn't know the Church still did that!" > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Bob Richardson ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:27:55 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Parrish Subject: ASI Conference Spirit Pam found her one ASI Conference "the most unfriendly gathering" she had ever attended. Drew reports a very different experience. My own single ASI Conference experience (Denver) was very like Drew's. All my life I have attended literary conferences which I found valuable but where, for every friendly, delightful scholar there seemed to be two pretentious, jargon-spouting, self-aggrandizing, self-centered, insecure pseudo-scholars. I found the indexers gathered in Denver to be almost without exception friendly, helpful, eager to learn and share, and comfortable with themselves and others. I was convinced that this was a group I wanted to be a part of. Though I was unable to attend the conferences in Winston-Salem and Denver, I am setting my hopes on Indianapolis. I need the information to be shared there, and I need the pleasure of meeting congenial colleagues. Try it again, Pam! Ann Parrish Parrish Professional Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 21:57:00 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: EMickiT@AOL.COM Subject: Re: name question In a message dated 98-07-21 10:49:49 EDT, you write: << Should I include his nickname in the entry? Should it be Davis, Calvin "Big Boy" >> I recently indexed a book which included information on famous mobsters. I structured the entries as you did in this example. Many people are better known by their nicknames, so a reader would be more likely to find them if that information is included. If he is often refered to in the text as simply "Big Boy," then you have to judge whether you need to double post or cross reference. Big Boy (Calvin Davis) Big Boy. See Davis, Calvin To resolve this, you may be able to rely on the text or check a biographical dictionary. If still in doubt, check with the editor or author, or consult a reference book likely to mention this person. Many musicians are known best by their nicknames, without the surname. I expect most music fans have no idea what Howlin' Wolf's first name is. Devoted blues fans may, but even they might turn to an index and look under "H." I'd say if there is any doubt and you have the space, double post or cross reference from the nickname to the real name. On a tangent: In a cases where there is actually no way to find a real name, you have no choice but to put them under the nickname. For example, if a wild west outlaw were known only as Kansas City Jim, I would enter him as: Kansas City Jim (Such a person might not have wanted his first name known or it may have been "lost" through the passage of time.) Then I might have an additional entry for: outlaws of the wild west Kansas City Jim (additional subentries) That would allow the reader two ways to find the information. Of course, the content of the text will help decide if the latter entry is appropriate. Erin (Micki) Taylor