From: SMTP%"LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu" 6-APR-1998 14:55:02.44 To: CIRJA02 CC: Subj: File: "INDEX-L LOG9803B" Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:35:06 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9803B" To: CIRJA02@GSVMS1.CC.GASOU.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 06:45:25 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: question How do you all handle page ranges when you have a topic that covers a long page range but is broken up into several different discussions, for example E exploitation, 261-264, 264-281, 288 The discussion on 261-264 is quite separate, though obviously related, from that on 264-281. Do you leave them as separate ranges, or do you combine them: exploitation, 261-281, 288 I have a severe space limitation, or I would analyze it better with subheads. I'm already severely editing down for space. Thanks. I have quite a few instances of this in the book I'm working on (which is due tomorrow and I didn't think to ask sooner). I'm tending to want to leave them separate but I can't explain why. Any thoughts? Rachel Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 05:48:25 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: contents/index analogy? In-Reply-To: <199803080436.UAA12844@powergrid.electriciti.com> Great thought, but as all indexes are subjective, one presumes the same of analogies. I just don't get spiders in the following and, therefore, would suggest The Contents shows the threads and the Index the web. At 10:32 PM 3/7/98 -0600, you wrote: >Dafydd: > > Actually, the table of contents and the index do not share similar >functions. To use an analogy, the TOC shows you the spider; the index >shows you the web. > > Rob > fugleman@mindspring.com > Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 09:50:47 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Robert A. Saigh" Subject: Re: question Rachel: I would combine them. The only reason I might keep the pages separate would be an instance like this: 234-237, 238-250, 288 Normally, I would combine them unless the break is so distinctive. But, if the break occurs on the same page, I say put them together. Maybe that is not what is professionally acceptable but space is a factor. Hope that advice helps. Rob fugleman@mindspring.com Rachel Rice wrote: > How do you all handle page ranges when you have a topic that covers a long > page range but is broken up into several different discussions, for example > > E > exploitation, 261-264, 264-281, 288 > > The discussion on 261-264 is quite separate, though obviously related, from > that on 264-281. Do you leave them as separate ranges, or do you combine > them: > > exploitation, 261-281, 288 > > I have a severe space limitation, or I would analyze it better with > subheads. I'm already severely editing down for space. > > Thanks. I have quite a few instances of this in the book I'm working on > (which is due tomorrow and I didn't think to ask sooner). I'm tending to > want to leave them separate but I can't explain why. Any thoughts? > > Rachel > > Rachel Rice > Directions Unlimited Desktop Services > Indexing, editing, proofreading > http://homepages.together.net/~racric ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 09:51:35 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Robert A. Saigh" Subject: Re: contents/index analogy? Pam: Interesting thought. I'll have to work on my analogies. Rob fugleman@mindspring.com Pam Rider wrote: > Great thought, but as all indexes are subjective, one presumes the same of > analogies. > > I just don't get spiders in the following and, therefore, would suggest > > The Contents shows the threads and the Index the web. > > At 10:32 PM 3/7/98 -0600, you wrote: > >Dafydd: > > > > Actually, the table of contents and the index do not share similar > >functions. To use an analogy, the TOC shows you the spider; the index > >shows you the web. > > > > > Rob > > fugleman@mindspring.com > > > Pam Rider > Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth > > prider@electriciti.com > prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 09:16:12 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: scared readers? In-Reply-To: <199803080434.XAA10140@camel16.mindspring.com> I agree - I always say that the TOC shows how the author divides up the material into chunks. That's not necessarily the same as how the reader divides it up or approaches it. At 10:32 PM 3/7/98 -0600, you wrote: >Dafydd: > > Actually, the table of contents and the index do not share similar >functions. To use an analogy, the TOC shows you the spider; the index >shows you the web. > > later > > Rob > fugleman@mindspring.com > > >Dafydd Llwyd Talcott wrote: > >> Bravo, bravissima! You hit the nail, such as it is, on the head. >> >> Too few authors and dumbheaded editors and publishers realise that >> that a Table of Contents is not, not, NOT and Index. They of course >> share similar functions but are by NO means the same. >> >> One of my best reference books, Mueller's "Upgrading and Repairing >> PCs" has a 19-page Contents and a 49-page Index; the whole thing comes >> to 1100 pages. [My edition really could use a better index, done in >> a smaller typeface.] Perhaps having a decent index is one reason the >> book is now in its seventh edition? >> >> To reply to whomever posted the "scared readers" issue, I ain't >> "scared" about a missing index, I simply move on in disgust and >> buy a different book. I might be missing your point, tho. >> >> Cheers to all, >> dllt > Jan +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ Jan C. Wright Wright Information Indexing Services Jancw@mindspring.com http://www.mindspring.com/~jancw +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 11:58:10 -0500 Reply-To: Ken Reigner Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ken Reigner Subject: WIW Insider's Lunch w/ Deborah Mathis, Natl. Press Club, March 19 WIW Insider's Lunch with White House correspondent Deborah Mathis at the National Press Club, Washington, D.C., at 12 noon, March 19 Nationally syndicated columnist and Gannett News Service White House correspondent Deborah Mathis will discuss her experiences covering the presidency at this month's Insider's Lunch sponsored by Washington Independent Writers. Mathis has known and covered Bill and Hillary Clinton since the mid 1970s. She now reports on the presidency for 92 Gannett-owned newspapers and Gannett's 40 client newspapers. The lunch cost is $30 for WIW members and $35 for non-members. For more information or reservations, call the WIW office at (202) 347-4973. Information is available on the World Wide Web at or via e-mail at . The WIW office is located at 220 Woodward Building, 733 15th St. N.W., Washington, D.C. 20005, USA. WIW is a non-profit, professional organization based in Washington, D.C., for independent writers, editors and journalists. With approximately 2,000 members, WIW is the largest regional writers' organization in the United States. WIW also sponsors an Internet-based discussion and mailing list, WIW-L. To subscribe, send e-mail to , and in the body of the message, put the line "subscribe WIW-L your-first-name your-last-name" (without the quotation marks). [Please forgive the cross-posts.] Sincerely, Ken Reigner -- Ken Reigner cbs@digex.net Member, Board of Directors List Owner, WIW-L and WIW-JOBS Chairman, Technology Committee wiw-l-request@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu Washington Independent Writers wiw-jobs-request@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 15:29:28 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Helen W Ochej Subject: professional ethics Recently I have read a quote from the writings of Confucius that goes like this: "The duties of universal obligation are five, and the moral qualities by which they are carried out are three. The duties are those between ruler and subject, between parents and children, between husband and wife, between elder siblings and younger and between friends. These are the five relationsips of universal obligation. Wisdom, compassion and courage--these are the three universally recognized moral qualities of human beings. It matters not what way people come to the exercise of these moral qualities, the result is one and the same...." My observation is that Confucius did not include duties between professionals as co-workers or professional society associates. These do not fall into the category of friends, family or rulers. I index medical journals and frequently see articles on medical ethics within professional medical organizations. I think that professional ethics is also some kind of universal obligation. I would be interested in hearing other people's ideas on this subject. I present a hypothetical example: Most professional groups have a national membership that is subdivided into regional and/or local groups. Often the administrative aspects of the group concerning membership are handled from the top down. For example, a membership brochure would be published for the entire national group and those wishing to be excluded have the opportunity to not have their names published. This brochure is mailed to the entire membership. At the local level, a group may also have a local membership brochure that might be mailed out to prospective customers as a form of advertisement. Would it be ethical for the officers to list themselves and their friends and ask other members of the group to be included in a new membership brochure only by application (the application would be in a small section of the local newsletter unaccompanied by an article or explanation)? Afterwards when questioned, they might claim to have used the national membership list as the basis for the local brochure and those who paid their dues late could not be included (though they still got included in the national brochure). Upon examination of the two brochures one would notice that a comparison between the geographic location of the members in the national membership brochure and the local one did not agree. In fact, the local group has a rather large number of members and only a small fraction of those are listed in the local brochure. The title on the brochure identifies it as the membership brochure for the local chapter. The local brochure is not mailed out to all of the members but is available at meetings or upon request. It is unclear whether the printing costs for the brochure came out of the local treasury. In this example, one can excuse some of these impolite inconsistencies by saying that a (professional?) organization is built on volunteer labor and that it is the best that can be done. Ethical standards can be excused in business and competition. Those who put in time and effort have a right to get the most from the organization. The others must simply claw their way to the top if they want to be included in the membership directory the first year or when it is sent to customers. Of course many of the members do not even have their own business and have no vested interest in being included in the brochure. Should the brochure have been labeled as the entrepreneur group of the organization? Of course, as an indexer the classification and naming of the brochure is the fun part. I find these questions interesting, especially in the current international market economy. I think it also brings up questions of standards in indexing societies. As the number of indexers grows and the group becomes more diverse, how can issues of fairness be resolved without some kind of standards or ethical code? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 12:56:41 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeri Lee Subject: Re: Chat: Great book find! Kevin: What a great read!! I love your entire statement and am requesting your permission to quote you in a book that I am doing relating to how the human body has suffered from the creations of the human mind. You would, of course, receive full credit for your part of the statement, and the author of "My Garden of Dreams," Abram Linwood Urban, will also be duly credited. Thanx for your consideration of the above request. Jeri Lee indexer@INETCOM.NET wrote: > > I found the most enchanting book yesterday. I was cranking along at full > speed trying to get a project done for today when my client called, asked > how things were going, then told me they wouldn't even be looking at it > until early next week so they offered me several more days. > > So just about that time a friend called and wanted me to go to the American > Association of University Women book sale. What a great time I had! > > I found a book called "My Garden of Dreams" by Abram Linwood Urban. It was > a signed (#26 of 10,000) first edition for $10. I started picking spots at > random and I was completely spellbound. Listen to this social commentary: > > "But Man has not been wholly faithful to his alliance with nature. In the > progress of what we call civilization there has come to be, more or less, a > divorce of man from nature. Some one has said "progress is a disease, and > eventually society will die of civilization". > > What truth is there in that statement? This much certainly. We are living > an artificially heated life. The modern man is highly specialized, both > mentally and physically, and has developed and exists at the expense of a > first essential and necessity. His life is unnatural and out of sequence. > > .... > Does health of body and mind lie in the direction of nature? There is a > feeling that there is a secret which we have lost, and that it is to be > refound in nature.....We need to find again the lost secret." > > Amazing how certain ideas are timeless. These words were written in 1913. > If anything the truth of his statements are even more observable today. > Modern man has constructed his own Tower of Babble of technology. Yet the > time is coming, sooner rather than later, that we shall be smote down from > that Tower as surely as the folks of old. Then perhaps God will see fit to > illuminate us with those long-lost secrets of the past that so few now > remember... > > Anyway... Anyone ever hear of this writer? I'm thoroughly enchanted! > > Kevin Mulrooney > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Dyslexics of the world untie! > > Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty but only the pig enjoys it. > > First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 > 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net > Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 17:42:48 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "S. Greenhouse" Subject: Re: professional ethics What an interesting situation. Current norms of privacy are that mailing lists for periodicals, membership lists for professional societies and subscriber lists for internet providers are not used for other commercial purposes without the expressed written permission of the subscribers or members. In the hypothetical example cited, this permission would be solicited by a form in the chapter newsletter. This procedure would be consistent with the strong preference of most members that their privacy be maintained, and would be consistent with current business practices. For another example, think back to last summer when AOL was poised to distribute the profiles (which include mailing addresses and phone numbers) of its subscribers. The ensuing outcry from their subscribers was so intense they had to publically reverse this decision and apologize. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 18:05:10 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Helen W Ochej Subject: Re: Indexes worth noting Thank you Stephen for referring this book. I'm a great fan of Hofstadter and didn't realize that he had written this new book. My husband just bought a copy of it for me today. I can't wait to get into it! 8-) At 16:22 7-03-98 -0800, you wrote: >In a remarkable book, _Le Ton beau de Marot: In Praise of the Music of >Language_, Douglas R. Hofstadter has included an index which he, >himself, composed. (The book is about translation, among other >things, and uses a poem, Ma Mignonne, by 16th century French poet Clement >Marot, as a starting point for discussions of many fascinating subjects. >Included are 88 different translations of the poem!) > >The index is noteworthy: three columns per page of tiny type, perhaps 5pt. >A bit wordy, perhaps. His note at the beginning says in part, > > "Though completeness is an ideal in any index, it is chimerical. > Doing an index is a lesson to end all lessons in the vagueness > and subjectivity of human categories. I have tried to compensate > for inevitable lacunae and subjective mismatches with readers' > minds by indexing most major topics in several different ways..." > > >Stephen Bach > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 20:39:28 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: AllWrite N Subject: Re: question Rachel, I would tend to make it a continuous listing. The exception to that would be if the way in which the topic was covered was wildly divergent between the two areas -- but then you should really have a subhead, yes? If the editor is limiting you, use the expanded range; if the editor complains later about your lack of definitive separations, throw the book at him/her! ;) MHOO, Nancy ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 20:05:37 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Stephen E. Bach" Subject: time management books and Hyrum W. Smith >Does Hyrum [W. Smith] have his own web page, etc.? Not that I know of. The closest you'll get is www.franklincovey.com Stephen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:08:51 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Robert A. Saigh" Subject: Re: time management books and Hyrum W. Smith Stephen: Thanks for the information. I'll check on that. Rob fugleman@mindspring.com Stephen E. Bach wrote: > >Does Hyrum [W. Smith] have his own web page, etc.? > > Not that I know of. The closest you'll get is www.franklincovey.com > > Stephen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 08:18:58 +0000 Reply-To: connolly@neca.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dan Connolly Organization: WORD FOR WORD Book Indexing Subject: Colleagues' Indexes Has anyone had occasion to use a colleagues' index (as a reader)? I have been working on my web site and using "HTML For Dummies: Quick Reference." I was using the index repeatedly and started thinking that this is a pretty good index (everything I was looking up was there). So I decided to see if the index was attributed. It was. Lori Lathrop is the author of the index. I don't know Lori, but I have visited her website, so I know what she looks like and it was nice to put a face with an index. Good job Lori. Anyone else have similiar experiences? Dan -- Dan Connolly mailto:connolly@neca.com WORD FOR WORD Book Indexing and Editing Services http://WFWIndex.necaweb.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:05:24 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Re: Colleagues' Indexes Dan wrote: >Has anyone had occasion to use a colleagues' index (as a reader)? I have been >working on my web site and using "HTML For Dummies: Quick Reference." I was >using the index repeatedly and started thinking that this is a pretty good >index (everything I was looking up was there). So I decided to see if the >index was attributed. It was. Lori Lathrop is the author of the index. I don't >know Lori, but I have visited her website, so I know what she looks like and >it was nice to put a face with an index. Good job Lori. > I have. I got a book called Mastering Windows 3.11 from Sybex, largely on the basis of comparing indexes among similar books. Later I noticed the indexer was attributed and it was Nancy Guenther. The name sounded familiar at the time but I couldn't place it right away. Then a few weeks later I attended a DC ASI meeting and who among all the assembled indexing luminaries should be sitting next to me but Nancy Guenther. No wonder it sounded familiar! Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty but only the pig enjoys it. First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 09:52:08 -0800 Reply-To: jthomas3@csulb.edu Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joy Thomas Organization: California State University Long Beach, Library Subject: research project This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------2FC0368C276E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: dvanpett@valdosta.edu Sorry to bother the list with this. Attempts to send a private message were returned. +++++ Sure, I did it. Got a sabbatical two years ago to index a collection within our Special Collections Department. Justified it on the grounds of improved student & campus community access to the material which was nearly inaccessible. The beauty of it, from my then-director's viewpoin, although not mine, was that the material was completely owned by the library. He had visions of putting my index on the library's home page. That hasn't happened and probably won't, even if I never finish the project, which is massive. BTW, the beauty of the project from MY perspective was that it was completely portable. My husband was working at Georgia Tech (& I was here in California), so I was able to spend my sabbatical with him. I could probably lay my hands on the sabbatical application, if you want exact language. The "value to the campus" bit was especially important, because the year before I had been denied a sabbatical that frankly I thought much more worthy, on the grounds that the campus wouldn't benefit enough. So I went looking for a project to fit the bill, so I could be with my husband. -- Joy Thomas Social Sciences Librarian California State University, Long Beach 562 985-7817 --------------2FC0368C276E Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from localhost (localhost) by postman.csulb.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with internal id MAA26714; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 12:34:53 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 12:34:53 -0800 (PST) From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Message-Id: <199803062034.MAA26714@postman.csulb.edu> To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="MAA26714.889216493/postman.csulb.edu" Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message within 3 days Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) This is a MIME-encapsulated message --MAA26714.889216493/postman.csulb.edu The original message was received at Tue, 3 Mar 1998 12:24:45 -0800 (PST) from [134.139.56.79] (may be forged) ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 451 ... valdosta.edu: Name server timeout Message could not be delivered for 3 days Message will be deleted from queue --MAA26714.889216493/postman.csulb.edu Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; postman.csulb.edu Arrival-Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 12:24:45 -0800 (PST) Final-Recipient: RFC822; dvanpett@valdosta.edu Action: failed Status: 4.4.7 Last-Attempt-Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 12:34:53 -0800 (PST) --MAA26714.889216493/postman.csulb.edu Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from jthomas3 ([134.139.56.79] (may be forged)) by postman.csulb.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id MAA12435 for ; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 12:24:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34FDB87D.6ED6@csulb.edu> Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 12:24:29 -0800 From: Joy Thomas Reply-To: jthomas3@csulb.edu Organization: California State University Long Beach, Library X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dvanpett@valdosta.edu Subject: index as research Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sure, I did it. Got a sabbatical two years ago to index a collection within our Special Collections Department. Justified it on the grounds of improved student & campus community access to the material which was nearly inaccessible. The beauty of it, from my then-director's viewpoin, although not mine, was that the material was completely owned by the library. He had visions of putting my index on the library's home page. That hasn't happened and probably won't, even if I never finish the project, which is massive. BTW, the beauty of the project from MY perspective was that it was completely portable. My husband was working at Georgia Tech (& I was here in California), so I was able to spend my sabbatical with him. I could probably lay my hands on the sabbatical application, if you want exact language. The "value to the campus" bit was especially important, because the year before I had been denied a sabbatical that frankly I thought much more worthy, on the grounds that the campus wouldn't benefit enough. So I went looking for a project to fit the bill, so I could be with my husband. -- Joy Thomas Social Sciences Librarian California State University, Long Beach 562 985-7817 --MAA26714.889216493/postman.csulb.edu-- --------------2FC0368C276E-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:50:51 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: question At 06:45 AM 3/8/98 -0500, Rachel Rice wrote: >How do you all handle page ranges when you have a topic that covers a long >page range but is broken up into several different discussions, for example > >E >exploitation, 261-264, 264-281, 288 > > >The discussion on 261-264 is quite separate, though obviously related, from >that on 264-281. Do you leave them as separate ranges, or do you combine >them: > >exploitation, 261-281, 288 > >I have a severe space limitation, or I would analyze it better with >subheads. I'm already severely editing down for space. > >Thanks. I have quite a few instances of this in the book I'm working on >(which is due tomorrow and I didn't think to ask sooner). I'm tending to >want to leave them separate but I can't explain why. Any thoughts? > Rachel: I would combine the two ranges into one only if space considerations require it. Since you'd have written different subheadings if you could have fit them in, keeping the two ranges separate will offer at least a little added guidance to the reader. Michael Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 530-272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:39:54 -0800 Reply-To: ck@pais.org Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Catherine Korvin Organization: Public Affairs Information Service Subject: Available Position at PAIS Please advertise the following position on INDEX-L: The following full-time position is available at Public Affairs Information Service (PAIS), publisher of a public policy database in New York City. Thank you. INDEXER/ABSTRACTER/EDITOR PAIS--Public Affairs Information Service, Inc., publishers of bibliographic indexes to the literature of social sciences and public policy, is seeking to fill an Assistant Editor position. This position requires experience indexing, abstracting, and editing; an MLS degree; database and Internet searching; knowledge of computer word processing; fluent English; a background in the social sciences or international affairs; and reading knowledge of one of French, German, or Spanish. Outstanding health and fringe benefits. Please send or fax resume and salary requirements to: PAIS C. Korvin, Editor 521 West 43rd Street New York, NY 10036 Fax: (212) 643-2848 E-mail: ck@pais.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:41:55 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: FrameMaker index Is it possible/practical to create a master index across a large number of Frame documents? Say 100 documents and several thousand pages. Dick Evans ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:42:21 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Indexlady Subject: Fwd: Job opening at USA TDOAY library This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_889540942_boundary Content-ID: <0_889540942@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Forwarded job opening. --part0_889540942_boundary Content-ID: <0_889540942@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from relay31.mx.aol.com (relay31.mail.aol.com [172.31.109.31]) by air26.mail.aol.com (v40.7) with SMTP; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:20:10 -0500 Received: from listserv.oit.unc.edu (listserv.oit.unc.edu [152.2.25.17]) by relay31.mx.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id JAA21354; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:19:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from SOCKFAULT1@localhost (port 35846 [127.0.0.1]) by listserv.oit.unc.edu with SMTP id <227823-4163>; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:18:44 -0500 Received: from NO-IDENT-SERVICE@smtpgate.gannett.com (port 3794 [192.234.103.2]) by listserv.oit.unc.edu with SMTP id <227495-4164>; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:16:01 -0500 Received: from USATGATE by smtpgate.gannett.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #1) id m0yCPlR-0008p1C; Tue, 10 Mar 98 09:12 EST Message-Id: Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:22:00 -0500 Reply-To: newslib@listserv.oit.unc.edu Sender: owner-newslib@listserv.oit.unc.edu From: "Maxwell, Barbara" To: newslib@listserv.oit.unc.edu Subject: Job opening at USA TDOAY library X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V4.00a)/MIME X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The USA TODAY library has a full time job opening for a reference librarian, with some technical services/indexing duties. The library is a dynamic resource providing a majority of the research for USA TODAY. We serve all departments including Executive, advertising, marketing, editorial, USA TODAY online, other Gannett properties, USA WEEKEND to name a few. The successful candidate will be a team player with good written and verbal communication skills. The person should be an avid reader with a strong awareness of current events, who can learn any and all duties assigned in library. MLS and a min. of 2 years experience in a special or news library preferred. Top notch computer and research skills required. Good familiarity with online services like Nexis, Dow Jones and the Internet a plus. Must be flexible and able to work in a fast-paced environment and meet deadlines. If you are interested, please FAX your resume ASAP to Barbara Maxwell, USA TODAY library director, at 703-247-3139. Prefer LOCAL APPLICANTS ONLY Contact Information Barbara Maxwell Director, USA TODAY Library 703-276-3797 Fax- 703-247-3139 email: bmaxwell@usatoday.com --part0_889540942_boundary-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:46:32 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: question In-Reply-To: <199803091850.KAA05119@nccn.net> Thanks to all for the replies about my page range question. I ended up combining ranges that had a common page, but left separate adjacent pages. So 25-26, 26-27 became 25-27, but 25-26, 27-28 was left alone. The editor also felt this was reasonable under the circs. We all agree that subheads would have been a heck of a lot better but you do what you can. BTW, quite a while back I posted about losing a client when I raised my rates. Just to let you know he has since called and given me 2 more assignments at the new rate, so all's well that ends well. There's a lesson there.(This tight-space book was the second of his assignments.) Thanks again, as always for all your support. Rachel Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:20:50 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Seth A. Maislin" Subject: ASI-related Seattle meetings If you are in charge of an ASI-related group -- specifically a local chapter or a special interest group (SIG) -- I recommend that you contact one of the webmasters of the ASI Web site with any Seattle-related meeting plans. Particularly for SIGs, for which meetings are rarely geographically convenient, an announcement on the ASI Web site will help you coordinate your efforts. (If you don't have plans for a meeting right now but are interested in having one, now is a good time to start making your plans.) Send your meeting plans to either me (seth@oreilly.com) or Marilyn Rowland (marisol@marisol.com). For those of you are members of a SIG or chapter (and if you're an ASI member, then you're a member of at least a chapter!), stay tuned to either your chapter's Web page or national ASI's Web page for upcoming meetings and plans, including those informal Seattle-based gatherings. (FYI, the national ASI Web site is at http://www.well.com/user/asi .) - Seth -- Seth A. Maislin (seth@oreilly.com) O'Reilly & Associates Focus Publishing Services 90 Sherman Street 89 Grove Street Cambridge MA 02140 Watertown MA 02172-2826 (617) 499-7439 phone (617) 924-4428 (617) 661-1116 facsimile smaislin@world.std.com URL: http://www.oreilly.com/~seth Webmaster, Amer Soc of Indexers: http://www.well.com/user/asi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:21:16 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Vanessa Glover Organization: Motorola Semiconductor Products Sector Subject: Re: FrameMaker index I don't know if anyone's responded yet, but Frame 5.5 is supposed to have this capability. I haven't actually tried it yet but I will in about 2 weeks. Vanessa Richard Evans wrote: > > Is it possible/practical to create a master index across a large number of > Frame documents? Say 100 documents and several thousand pages. > > Dick Evans ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 13:43:28 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cheryl Jackson Subject: Re[2]: FrameMaker index I don't know which version of FrameMaker we use here, but it is capable of creating an index from multiple documents. Our largest books are 1500-1600 pages, which FrameMaker is capable of handling as long as the computer has enough processing power and RAM (we use PowerMacs primarily). Cheryl Jackson Macmillan Computer Publishing ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: FrameMaker index Author: Vanessa Glover at internet Date: 3/10/98 12:21 PM I don't know if anyone's responded yet, but Frame 5.5 is supposed to have this capability. I haven't actually tried it yet but I will in about 2 weeks. Vanessa Richard Evans wrote: > > Is it possible/practical to create a master index across a large number of > Frame documents? Say 100 documents and several thousand pages. > > Dick Evans ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:51:32 -0800 Reply-To: mclaughb@cgs.edu Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bonny McLaughlin Organization: cgs.edu Subject: Encyclopedia indexing I'm considering a job involving the indexing of a one-volume encyclopedia on semiotics. Do those who do this kind of work generally charge more per page for an encyclopedia than for an academic text, or do you charge by the entry? Reply privately if you wish. Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 02:41:32 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rennie Petersen Subject: Indexing books for viewing on Web or CD-ROM I'd like to know if anyone has any suggestions as to software that could be used for the following project. I'd like to build a combined index that covers the contents of a set of approx. 10 books that form a series. I'd then like to publish this index on a Web site, such that a visitor can click on an index entry and be shown the section (one sentence or one paragraph) of text that the index refers to in the original text. The entire text of the books will be in files on the Web server, although it will not be possible for the visitor to simply browse through the text. The only access to the text should be via the index, which will only show the text a small section at a time. Although the project I have in mind is for a Web site the same principles would apply for doing the same thing on a CD-ROM, so that's why I mention that alternative. As I see it, I may need special software for creating the index, or I may be able to use an ordinary indexing product like Cindex or Sky Index or ????. But beyond that I will need some kind of presentation program that lets the user click on an index entry and show him/her the corresponding section of text. Thanks in advance for any suggestions. Yours, Rennie Petersen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 00:00:28 -0500 Reply-To: brocindx@catskill.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kevin A. Broccoli" Organization: Broccoli Indexing Services Subject: Re: Indexing books for viewing on Web or CD-ROM Rennie Petersen wrote: > > I'd like to know if anyone has any suggestions as to software that could be > used for the following project. > > I'd like to build a combined index that covers the contents of a set of > approx. 10 books that form a series. I'd then like to publish this index on > a Web site, such that a visitor can click on an index entry and be shown > the section (one sentence or one paragraph) of text that the index refers > to in the original text. > > The entire text of the books will be in files on the Web server, although > it will not be possible for the visitor to simply browse through the text. > The only access to the text should be via the index, which will only show > the text a small section at a time. > > Although the project I have in mind is for a Web site the same principles > would apply for doing the same thing on a CD-ROM, so that's why I mention > that alternative. > > As I see it, I may need special software for creating the index, or I may > be able to use an ordinary indexing product like Cindex or Sky Index or > ????. But beyond that I will need some kind of presentation program that > lets the user click on an index entry and show him/her the corresponding > section of text. > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions. > > Yours, > Rennie Petersen Rennie: Are you going to be doing the mounting of the individual books onto the web site? And are you going to design the site as a whole? If so, you will need to be familiar with HTML. Although there are programs that you can use to make this easier (called web publishing tools). Some are: FrontPage Netscape Composer HotDog Adobe Pagemill One that you can download and if I remember right is FREE is HTML Writer. The URL is http://www.public.asu.edu/~bottger/ The easiest way to convert an index to HTML links is using a tool developed by Dwight Walker of WWWalker Web Development. The tool is called Webix and is extremely helpful. Incidently, what you are proposing to do falls in the category of web indexing, and Dwight is also giving courses on this as we speak. See his course info at http://www.wwwalker.com.au/webcourse.html Please write back with any specific questions as to this. Kevin A. Broccoli Broccoli Indexing Services brocindx@catskill.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 08:13:34 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PilarW Subject: Re: encyclopedia indexing In a message dated 98-03-11 00:28:42 EST, Bonny McLaughlin wrote: << Do those who do this kind of work generally charge more per page for an encyclopedia than for an academic text >> You bet. While you may also want to consider upping your entry rate, you can be sure that there will be a *lot* more entries/page than in your average academic text. Your page rate should be appropriately higher. --this from someone literally in the middle of an encyclopedia volume index, trying to get it done in time for conferences, etc.! Pilar ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------ L. Pilar Wyman * Wyman Indexing * PilarW@aol.com * http://members.aol.com/pilarw/web Great Indexes for Great Books ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:43:14 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Sloan Subject: Re: Indexing books for viewing on Web or CD-ROM After two years of entering the Australian Society of Indexers web index contest, I think their's would be the best site to check out. Here is their URL - http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi. You will also find my index on a public domain NASA online publication listed there. If you have any questions on that project that isn't answered by the brief description let me know. Linda Sloan ************************************************** Linda Kenny Sloan Information Universe Editorial services for the space industry Editing, indexing, proofreading email indexer@ix.netcom.com URL http://pw1.netcom.com/~indexer/infouniv.htm ************************************************** You wrote: > >I'd like to know if anyone has any suggestions as to software that could be >used for the following project. > >I'd like to build a combined index that covers the contents of a set of >approx. 10 books that form a series. I'd then like to publish this index on >a Web site, such that a visitor can click on an index entry and be shown >the section (one sentence or one paragraph) of text that the index refers >to in the original text. > >The entire text of the books will be in files on the Web server, although >it will not be possible for the visitor to simply browse through the text. >The only access to the text should be via the index, which will only show >the text a small section at a time. > >Although the project I have in mind is for a Web site the same principles >would apply for doing the same thing on a CD-ROM, so that's why I mention >that alternative. > >As I see it, I may need special software for creating the index, or I may >be able to use an ordinary indexing product like Cindex or Sky Index or >????. But beyond that I will need some kind of presentation program that >lets the user click on an index entry and show him/her the corresponding >section of text. > >Thanks in advance for any suggestions. > >Yours, >Rennie Petersen > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:15:48 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Seth A. Maislin" Subject: Re: Indexing books for viewing on Web or CD-ROM In-Reply-To: Rennie Petersen "Indexing books for viewing on Web or CD-ROM" (Mar 11, 2:41am) > I'd like to build a combined index that covers the contents of a set of > approx. 10 books that form a series. I'd then like to publish this index on > a Web site, such that a visitor can click on an index entry and be shown > the section (one sentence or one paragraph) of text that the index refers > to in the original text. Rennie, My recommendation would be to use HTML as a display format, so that you do not require any special software. Any Web browser can read HTML, regardless of whether your files are on the Web or on CD-ROM. Here's how I would do it. It might sound a bit ugly, but it also allows you perfect control over what the reader can view. Take the contents of your 10 books and index them just as you might index anything. Convert the files into HTML (there are tools that do this, or else you could get a compositor to do the work for you; I can't recommend any tools off the top of my head). Embed the index data as tags into the HTML. At this point you have several indexed HTML files, and an HTML index. (As an aside, I have written HTML indexes before, as have many other indexers. It is a process that is occasionally difficult, rife with formatting challenges. However, the bottom line is that you have a functional hierarchy with links that you can use to call forth elements of the original text.) Now chop your 10 books into tiny pieces. (This is the ugly part. :-) The size of each piece is defined by what you want the user to see. In addition, if there are large sections that are not indexed, there is no reason to include these sections on the CD-ROM, since users wouldn't be able to access them from browsing anyway. In fact, you might use the granularity of your indexing as an additional clue to how large the text excerpts should be. Each of these smaller files will get a name according to your own invented naming hierarchy, and the HTML index will be edited to point to these new "piece" files instead of the original files. Clicking on the links in the browser, then, will pull up very short HTML text files. In other words, now you have is a fully functional HTML index, with each link in that index able to call forth a limited HTML file of text, excerpted to your satisfaction. There is probably a better way to do this using JavaScript, but I do not know enough JavaScript to do it myself. You would end up with your original files from the 10 books, now with JavaScript-recognizable delimiters to define your excerpts, and the HTML index as described above. One difficult with JavaScript, however, is that it cannot be supported by all platforms with guaranteed repeatability. Using only HTML, you are guaranteed total portability up to the version of HTML you are using -- on both the Web and on CD-ROM. - Seth -- Seth A. Maislin (seth@oreilly.com) O'Reilly & Associates Focus Publishing Services 90 Sherman Street 89 Grove Street Cambridge MA 02140 Watertown MA 02172-2826 (617) 499-7439 phone (617) 924-4428 (617) 661-1116 facsimile smaislin@world.std.com URL: http://www.oreilly.com/~seth Webmaster, Amer Soc of Indexers: http://www.well.com/user/asi ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:37:41 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Shirley K Warkentin Subject: Re: Colleagues' Indexes I don't have an index to commend at the moment, but I think it is a great idea to post the book title and the indexer whenever we run across one that is useful to us. Shirley Warkentin Cornerstone Indexing On Mon, 9 Mar 1998 08:18:58 +0000 Dan Connolly writes: >Has anyone had occasion to use a colleagues' index (as a reader)? I >have been >working on my web site and using "HTML For Dummies: Quick Reference." >I was >using the index repeatedly and started thinking that this is a pretty >good >index (everything I was looking up was there). So I decided to see if >the >index was attributed. It was. Lori Lathrop is the author of the index. >I don't >know Lori, but I have visited her website, so I know what she looks >like and >it was nice to put a face with an index. Good job Lori. > >Anyone else have similiar experiences? > >Dan >-- > > >Dan Connolly >mailto:connolly@neca.com >WORD FOR WORD Book Indexing and Editing Services >http://WFWIndex.necaweb.com/ > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 16:28:09 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Martha Osgood Subject: Attachments - snarl I have a perfectly good Mac and modem, and have previously considered myself relatively intelligent, but I STILL can't make my attatchments go through consistently to PCs or to Macs. I use Eudora, but I have Internet Explorer and Netwcape Navigator on my computer too. Would an indexer out there be so kind as to email me off-list and hold my hand through the whole process a couple of times? I would then make what I learn available to others too as the requests come in. Thankfully relying on the kindness of strangers, I am Martha Back Words Indexing index@teleport.com (new address) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 19:19:03 -0500 Reply-To: Ken Reigner Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ken Reigner Subject: WIW Post-Holiday Party, Washington, DC, Friday, March 13 Washington Independent Writers Post-Holiday Party, Charles Sumner School Museum, 1201 17th Street N.W., Washington, D.C., Friday, March 13, 5:30 to 8:30 p.m. [Please forgive the cross-posts.] Break away from your keyboard for an evening of festivities at the WIW Post-Holiday Party. Network with other writers, editors and journalists. Feast on a delectable dinner buffet and wine. Bid for silent auction prizes like a free WIW Insider's Lunch in '98 or lunch with "Silkwood" author Howard Kohn or "Hot Flashes" author Barbara Raskin. Listen to local cabaret artist Joseph Perna. The cost of this event is $30 per person. For reservations or more information, call (202) 347-4973. Information is also available on the World Wide Web or via e-mail . The WIW office is located at 220 Woodward Building, 733 15th St. N.W., Washington, D.C. 20005, USA. Washington Independent Writers is a nonprofit, professional organization based in Washington, D.C., for independent writers, editors and journalists. Founded in 1975, WIW is the largest regional writers' organization in the United States with approximately 2,000 members. WIW also sponsors an Internet-based discussion and mailing list, WIW-L. To subscribe, send e-mail to , and in the body of the message, put the line "subscribe WIW-L your-first-name your-last-name" (without the quotation marks). Sincerely, Ken Reigner -- Ken Reigner cbs@digex.net Member, Board of Directors List Owner, WIW-L and WIW-JOBS Chairman, Technology Committee wiw-l-request@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu Washington Independent Writers wiw-jobs-request@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 19:32:43 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Robert A. Saigh" Subject: Re: Attachments - snarl Martha: I have had trouble in the past when attaching and then sending files. You are welcome to call me and I will do what I can to help you send a file. I have a PC clone and used to use Eudora. I now do everything through Netscape. One thing you can check is what format you are sending it in, i.e., in MIME or in BinHex. That can make a major difference. If you are not having problems with every client, then the problem may lie with the client's receiving capability and not your file. I have had that happen. E-mail me first to let me know what day/time you want to call, and I will e-mail back an okay with the phone number. Rob Saigh fugleman@mindspring.com I will check my e-mail one more time tonight. Martha Osgood wrote: > I have a perfectly good Mac and modem, and have previously considered > myself relatively intelligent, but I STILL can't make my attatchments go > through consistently to PCs or to Macs. I use Eudora, but I have Internet > Explorer and Netwcape Navigator on my computer too. Would an indexer out > there be so kind as to email me off-list and hold my hand through the whole > process a couple of times? I would then make what I learn available to > others too as the requests come in. > > Thankfully relying on the kindness of strangers, I am > Martha > Back Words Indexing > index@teleport.com (new address) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 23:44:22 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLF EdServ Subject: indexing for web sites and CD-ROMs It seems that everyone has responded to this answering questions about the web site and not the CD-ROM. How different is it to index a book on CD-ROM? (please excuse my typing. It is not up to par tonight. You would not know that English is my first language.) What are the steps one takes when indexing a CD-ROM? And how different is it from back-of-the-book indexing? Thanks, Leslie FrankWords Indexing and Editing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 04:27:35 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: EMickiT Subject: Arabic names I am indexing a book with many Arabic names and have been able to find the proper way to index all but one: Syrian President Shurki al-Quwatli. Can anyone help? Is it: al-Quwatli, Shurki or Quwatli, Shurki al Thanks for your help, Erin (Micki) Taylor You can respond off list to IndexTaylr@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 06:37:53 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Martha Wood Subject: Re: Attachments - snarl In-Reply-To: <199803120135.UAA24617@en.com> At 07:32 PM 3/11/98 -0600, you wrote: Rob-I think you may have replied to the wrong person as I don not know what this message repolies to. ??? Martha: > > I have had trouble in the past when attaching and then sending files. You >are welcome to call me and I will do what I can to help you send a file. I >have a PC clone and used to use Eudora. I now do everything through Netscape. > > One thing you can check is what format you are sending it in, i.e., in MIME >or in BinHex. That can make a major difference. If you are not having >problems with every client, then the problem may lie with the client's >receiving capability and not your file. I have had that happen. > > E-mail me first to let me know what day/time you want to call, and I will >e-mail back an okay with the phone number. > > Rob Saigh > fugleman@mindspring.com > > I will check my e-mail one more time tonight. > > > >Martha Osgood wrote: > >> I have a perfectly good Mac and modem, and have previously considered >> myself relatively intelligent, but I STILL can't make my attatchments go >> through consistently to PCs or to Macs. I use Eudora, but I have Internet >> Explorer and Netwcape Navigator on my computer too. Would an indexer out >> there be so kind as to email me off-list and hold my hand through the whole >> process a couple of times? I would then make what I learn available to >> others too as the requests come in. >> >> Thankfully relying on the kindness of strangers, I am >> Martha >> Back Words Indexing >> index@teleport.com (new address) > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 09:44:24 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: business organization -- help! In-Reply-To: <199802051628.LAA21081@mail2.bellsouth.net> At 11:08 AM 2/5/1998 -0500, you wrote: Sorry to be so late in replying to this one, but I'm just getting caught up after the move! >All business expenses and income are tracked in Quicken. Since I don't >have a separate business credit card or bank account, everything is run >through our personal finances, but tagged as "Indexing" in Quicken. Should >I a) have an entirely separate Quicken database for the indexing business? >(This would currently entail entering things twice.) b) open a business >checking/savings account and get a business credit card? I'm currently >using my own name, rather than a company name, so I wasn't sure this was >necessary. I have a separate (free) checking account for *all* my own stuff -- business and whatever else isn't handled by the joint account with my wife. (I have separate debit & credit cards, too.) However, everything has been in a single Quicken database for several years -- everything of mine and my wife's, in fact. It simplifies exporting the whole thing to Turbo Tax. I have income & expense categories called "Business," with lots of subcategories for everything I make money at, which includes writing, teaching genealogy workshops, and assorted other things besides indexing & editing. And then my wife has a similar couple of categories with subcategories. (We generally teach the workshops together, so we just split the income and expenses 50/50 for simplicity's sake.) But it all goes in one humongous Quicken database on the #3 computer (don't laugh -- we have 5 machines of various vintages...) and we're both careful to keep all our receipts and stuff entered every day or two. Re: credit cards -- The simplest way I've found to manage this is just to have two cards, like two separate VISAs, or whatever. Put them *both* in your personal name; getting a credit card in a business name is more hassle than you would believe. Use one for personal stuff, one for business, pay them both off every month, and you have sort of "automatic expense reporting" for free. >I'd like to set up a database or spreadsheet which could keep track of all >the following information: publisher's name, book title, author, date the >index was submitted, invoice amount, date the payment was received, time >spent on index, etc. Does anyone have any software suggestions? (Right >now I do it all in a Word Perfect file, but that can't keep a total of what >I'm owed and what I've received and so forth, and it's a pain to update.) You probably have MS Office on your machine, right? Use the Wizard to set up a simple Access database for this kind of thing... or just use MS Schedule+ (part of Office97) to track your projects. I confess to a bit of retrogression: I designed a work sheet for myself several years ago, which I fill out and make notes on as I talk to the editor, author, etc, and which helps me keep track of style and other questions, and also tracks the timeline for the project, notes how much I charged, and when I got the check for it (and also what I did with it -- usually a direct deposit into my Fidelity account). The sheet gets stapled to a paper copy of the printed index + the FedEx airbill + the stub of the payment check when I get it. Projects I'm waiting for payment on sit in an IN box on a shelf near my desk, where I can see them. When the check comes, it all goes into the annual "completed" file. Kind of low-tech, I guess. I simply can't talk on the phone and write on the computer at the same time (wrong generation, probably). >I use Starfish's Sidekick program for scheduling and client information. I >have separate "cardfiles" for publishers I've contacted, clients, and >indexer contacts. This system works pretty well, and I try to keep a >backup on floppy, but should I have a hardcopy rolodex as well? If so, >what are the advantages and disadvantages? Again, I have a sizable address book on computer, for correspendence and email, but my major client info is jotted on the inside "cover" of the file folder I keep for each client. Projects completed go in there, plus Christmas cards received from editors (it happens), occasional print-outs of emails, etc. I general make notes about each editor's likes and dislikes and anything else that might make dealing with someone smoother. But I like to have it written on the folder where I can see it and be reminded of it everytime I review the client. >What do you keep in hardcopy, and what do you keep on floppy disk or other >electronic media? How long do you keep completed indexes, and in what >form? Do you keep the page proofs, and if so, how long (and how on earth >do you store them, if you keep them past receipt of the check?) I have a ZIP disk with (almost) every index I've written in the past 15 years. It's not a tax requirement or anything -- I just like to have copies of *everything* creative I've ever done... :) When a book is published that I've done an index for, I try to borrow a copy through the library and photocopy the index for my files, too. (I wish I could get more publishers to send me a copy of the book as part of my contract, but only two out of about 20 will do it.) >Do any of you keep copies of every marketing letter you send out? Why or >why not? I only write one every year or two, so I keep a file of them -- but, then, I keep almost *everything*. >Kara Pekar >jkpekar@crosslink.net Mike Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 07:50:57 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: indexing for web sites and CD-ROMs In-Reply-To: <199803120446.XAA11782@camel26.mindspring.com> >It seems that everyone has responded to this answering questions about the web >site and not the CD-ROM. How different is it to index a book on CD-ROM? I think maybe it is because what is on CD-ROMS varies so much that it's hard to know where to begin. You can have collections of plain data, collections of documents in PDF format, an entire specialized program like an encyclopedia, entire books, music and audio and video clips, etc. on CD-ROMS. If it is a book on CD-ROM, there are still about 200 different ways of getting the book onto the CD-ROM - text-only, PDF, Common Ground, and proprietary file formats created by a variety of different programs hodge-podged together for a project. Each type of material and each program used to create the book is going to be different in its indexing needs. Some will have a built-in indexing module to help you. Some need a separate index file, and some coding to make them jump to the right files. It really really varies, because the software used for the content of CD-ROMs varies so much - MediaView, WinHelp, HTML, Macromedia Director, Word, PageMaker, - I have seen CD-ROMs with materials derived from all these programs, and many more. So it is very different from indexing back of the book. There is no one right way. The interface that the user sees for the index is different for nearly every single CD-ROM, and you must index in a way that is best for that particular interface. Some will have only one level, some two, some no cross references, some with full cross reference capability. So the first question about indexing on CD-ROM is what is on the CD-ROM? 2nd, what format is it in? 3rd, how is it intended to be used - one-time install or several times reference? 4th, what is the interface for the index? 5th, how will the index be built, and therefore how should you code your file for it? Hope this helps elaborate some of the issues involved. At 11:44 PM 3/11/98 EST, you wrote: >It seems that everyone has responded to this answering questions about the web >site and not the CD-ROM. How different is it to index a book on CD-ROM? >(please excuse my typing. It is not up to par tonight. You would not know that >English is my first language.) What are the steps one takes when indexing a >CD-ROM? And how different is it from back-of-the-book indexing? >Thanks, >Leslie >FrankWords Indexing and Editing > Jan +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ Jan C. Wright Wright Information Indexing Services Jancw@mindspring.com http://www.mindspring.com/~jancw +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 10:12:43 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: business questions In-Reply-To: <199709131630.LAA04973@SWBELL.net> At 09:24 AM 9/13/97 -0700, you wrote: >Also, if you move your home business >(close enough where you don't have to change your phone number), there >aren't any printing costs associated with new stationery. > >*********************************** >Lynn Moncrief >(techndex@pacbell.net) >TECHindex & Docs >Technical and Scientific Indexing >*********************************** Hmmm. Lynn, are you actually still paying someone else to print your stationery? :) I have three different letterheads (indexing/editing, freelance writing, and genealogy), three brochures of similar design, and a couple of different business cards -- and I did every bit of it in WordPerfect. I occasionally work a booth at a genealogy conference (I'm also involved in software development), and I usually do a special variant business card for the occasion with the booth number on it, as well as my hotel room phone number. Avery makes very nice stock in half a dozen shades and a laser printer produces a very professional-looking card. (The logo I use, the "bookman," is also on my web page, if you want to see it; it appears on almost everything I produce, including the envelopes I mail my brochures in.) Mike Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:15:52 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Arnold Cooperman Subject: Indexes on Internet I am currently looking for examples of indexes on the internet. Ideally, I would like to find indexes in much the same form as they would appear in the back of a book. I will soon be putting a large index (app. 1300 pages) on the internet, but I am very unsure how to structure the data. To be usable it needs to be in fairly large text blocks, but this presents a problem with access/downloading time. I've considered breaking the data into letters; however, with many cross references this division would be somewhat arbitrary and perhaps frustrating to the user. If anyone has ideas on the data structure or can recall long indexes on the web, I would greatly appreciate your advice or input. Thank you. Arnie Cooperman Florida Division of Statutory Revision ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:51:46 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Margaret Schaus Subject: Periodical Indexes on the Web? Dear Listmembers, I would appreciate leads on periodical indexes free-of-charge on the Web. I edit such a site (the Medieval Feminist Index) and would like to find others working on similar projects. The Web offers opportunities for interested groups to produce "niche" indexes that could never survive financially as commercial ventures. Margaret Schaus (mschaus@haverford.edu) Magill Library Haverford College Haverford, PA 19041 Tel. 610-896-1166 Medieval Feminist Index, Editor http://www.haverford.edu/library/reference/mschaus/mfi/mfi.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 10:15:35 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kari Bero Subject: Re: Indexes on Internet In-Reply-To: <199803121730.MAA24825@camel23.mindspring.com> The ASI Web Site maintains a list of indexes (including back-of-the-book style) on the 'net at: http://www.well.com/user/asi/webndx.htm If you know of others you think we should add, be sure to read the "note on submissions" before sending a note to the webmasters. -Kari -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Kari J. Bero Bero-West Indexing Services indexwest@mindspring.com www.mindspring.com/~indexwest/ 3722 Beach Drive SW, Suite 101 Seattle, WA 98116-3000 206-937-3673 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- At 12:15 PM 3/12/98 -0500, you wrote: > I am currently looking for examples of indexes on the internet. > Ideally, I would like to find indexes in much the same form as > they would appear in the back of a book. I will soon be putting > a large index (app. 1300 pages) on the internet, but I am very > unsure how to structure the data. To be usable it needs to be in > fairly large text blocks, but this presents a problem with > access/downloading time. I've considered breaking the data into > letters; however, with many cross references this division would > be somewhat arbitrary and perhaps frustrating to the user. > > If anyone has ideas on the data structure or can recall long > indexes on the web, I would greatly appreciate your advice or > input. Thank you. > > Arnie Cooperman > Florida Division of Statutory Revision > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 13:07:08 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Heidi Lee Hoerman Subject: Indexes on the Web & Periodical Indexes on the Web I was going to wait to tell you about my nascent indexing-related Web pages until they were more highly developed but as there were two items on this topic today, here's my contribution. I teach Indexing and Abstracting at the University of South Carolina College of Library and Information Science. This semester, students in that class are creating a web-based cumulative index to _The Chat_, which is an ornithological quarterly published by the Carolina Bird Club, a regional chapter of the American Ornithological Union. The class is at the earliest stages of development of the index at this point and it is my first attempt at such a project. I am hoping that this will lead to other such indexes to not-for-profit regional periodicals being created by my students. Happily, we have plenty of web capacity here and the local will to host such things on the CLIS site. If you go to the table of contents on my web page, http://www.libsci.sc.edu/hoerman/basepage.htm you will find a section called "CLIS732 Indexing & Abstracting." Right now there is a temporary page on cumulative periodical indexes on the web I created for quick reference by my students based on a quick search using HotBot. There are also some bare beginnings of the index to _The Chat_. Expect much more to be there by the end of April. I have vague plans to upgrade the page of cumulative index links to some- thing more complete and more formal to use as a teaching tool. I would be very happy to work with members of this list to make links to indexes both successful and less successful. I think "good" and "bad" examples are important. And what is good for one index is bad for another, etc. Several of my students willbe graduating soon and will be on the job market. Also, I often have students that are looking for exciting internships and summer work projects. Any of you looking for good people to employ or apprentice? Finally, any advice or criticisms you have about the indexes my students and I assemble are very gratefully accepted. Suggestions from professional indexers will be priceless here to us in the "Ivory Tower." Heidi HEIDI LEE HOERMAN COLLEGE OF LIBRARY AND INFORMATION SCIENCE UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH CAROLINA COLUMBIA, SC 29205 PHONE: (803) 777-0485 (800) 277-2035 FAX: (803) 777-7938 EMAIL: HOERMAN@SC.EDU URL: HTTP://WWW.LIBSCI.SC.EDU/HOERMAN/BASEPAGE.HTM ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 17:26:03 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cheryl Mcduffie Subject: Business Expenses I'm in the process of writing a business plan. Would you please help with a breakdown of operating expenses by percentage? I'm simply looking for something like: telephone 20%, paper 20%, etc. Capital items, i.e. equipment and furniture, will be handled separately. Thanks for your help! Cheryl - in Buffalo, NY bj134@freenet.buffalo.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 09:40:52 +1100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Alan Wilson Subject: Re: Indexes on Internet Arnie You might care to look at: http://www.aph.gov.au/parlindx.htm It's not as large as the one you mention, but it might give you some hints as to what to do, or not do. Incidentally, it won me the Australian Society of Indexers' Web Indexing Prize in 1996. You might find links to more useful examples at this page on the Society's site: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi/inetindx.htm Alan Wilson Director, Information Resources Management Department of the Parliamentary Library Parliament House, Canberra, ACT 2600, Australia --------------------------------------------------------------------- Phone: (02) 6277 2570 Fax: (02) 6277 2622 Email: Alan.Wilson@aph.gov.au DPL website: http://www.aph.gov.au/library/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Arnold Cooperman [SMTP:COOPERMAN.ARNIE@LEG.STATE.FL.US] > Sent: Friday, March 13, 1998 3:16 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Indexes on Internet > > I am currently looking for examples of indexes on the internet. > Ideally, I would like to find indexes in much the same form as > they would appear in the back of a book. I will soon be putting > a large index (app. 1300 pages) on the internet, but I am very > unsure how to structure the data. To be usable it needs to be > in > fairly large text blocks, but this presents a problem with > access/downloading time. I've considered breaking the data into > letters; however, with many cross references this division would > be somewhat arbitrary and perhaps frustrating to the user. > > If anyone has ideas on the data structure or can recall long > indexes on the web, I would greatly appreciate your advice or > input. Thank you. > > Arnie Cooperman > Florida Division of Statutory Revision ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 18:09:56 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SHughes512 Subject: Re: Business Expenses Do you figure the percentage as a percentage of all expences or as a percentage of gross income? I never did a business plan but I'm sure I could get the numbers from last year's taxes. I need to learn about things like this. Sharon ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 21:40:33 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Word to Quark A client has a book in MS-Word. (I don't know the version.) Each chapter is its own file. The client wants a name index. The whole thing will ultimately be published in QuarkExpress. The client is providing a list of the names he wants indexed. This seems a classic case for using a Word concordance and letting Word generate an index. My questions are: How do I get all the chapters together? A master document? Simply combining them all into one file? What are the prospects for exporting the results to Quark? Dick ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 14:08:49 +0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Headley and Adrian Walker-Smith Subject: Re: Word to Quark >From Christine Headley Richard Evans wrote: > > A client has a book in MS-Word. (I don't know the version.) Each chapter > is its own file. The client wants a name index. The whole thing will > ultimately be published in QuarkExpress. The client is providing a list of > the names he wants indexed. > > This seems a classic case for using a Word concordance and letting Word > generate an index. My questions are: > > How do I get all the chapters together? A master document? Simply > combining them all into one file? > > What are the prospects for exporting the results to Quark? > > Dick I recently prepared an index in Macrex and exported the result to Quark 3.32. When I wanted to fiddle with the formatting in Quark, the italics all disappeared. Apparently the new version of Quark is more helpful. I would, however, say that the exporting is likely to take far longer than you expect. Christine ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 07:45:39 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Word to Quark From Christine Headley > > > >I recently prepared an index in Macrex and exported the result to Quark 3.32. >When I wanted to fiddle with the formatting in Quark, the italics all >disappeared. Apparently the new version of Quark is more helpful. I'm talking about exporting from Word to Quark, though. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 08:59:41 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cheryl Mcduffie Subject: Re: Business Expenses In-Reply-To: <199803122312.SAA05444@freenet-mail.buffalo.edu> On Thu, 12 Mar 1998, SHughes512 wrote: > Do you figure the percentage as a percentage of all expences or as a > percentage of gross income? I hadn't thought about this distinction; however, I think "as a percentage of gross income" would be most helpful to me at this point. Cheryl - in Buffalo, NY bj134@freenet.buffalo.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 09:13:00 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "John R. Sullivan" Subject: Re: Word to Quark Dick, I'd stay away from Word's "Master Doc" feature -- from what I understand it's very buggy and unreliable. The best way to create an index for multiple Word documents is to create a separate document, insert RD (Referenced Document) fields for all of the component files, and then insert an index field and generate the index. I don't know much about Quark -- if it doesn't have a Word import filter, it probably does have an RTF import filter. So you could save the Word file as RTF and import into Quark. John Sullivan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 09:33:28 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cheryl Jackson Subject: Re: Word to Quark Dick, I've done lots of indexes in Word for Quark, and it's really easier than you might think. Just make sure that you have the Quark Index extension for Quark 3.3. When you code in Word, don't use the Word dialog box. Instead, make your codes look exactly like the Quark codes should look: <$Isample first level;second level;third level> It's pretty easy to set up a Word macro so you can hit a quick key to bring up the <$I> code without having to type it all the time. When you enter your codes, be sure to copy/paste them at the end of the section to which they pertain, because you won't know page numbers until the chapters are laid out in Quark. Then compile the index in Quark, not in Word. When the index is compiled, you can use Word to edit it if you like, then import the edited index back into Quark. I hope that all makes sense. If anything's unclear, let me know; I have more detailed instructions for Quark indexes that I can send to you if you'd like. Cheryl Jackson Macmillan Computer Publishing ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Word to Quark Author: Richard Evans at internet Date: 3/12/98 9:40 PM A client has a book in MS-Word. (I don't know the version.) Each chapter is its own file. The client wants a name index. The whole thing will ultimately be published in QuarkExpress. The client is providing a list of the names he wants indexed. This seems a classic case for using a Word concordance and letting Word generate an index. My questions are: How do I get all the chapters together? A master document? Simply combining them all into one file? What are the prospects for exporting the results to Quark? Dick ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 10:03:46 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: WordenDex Subject: Re: Word to Quark Dick, To add what may be unneeded comments to this saga, I found out these facts during the past several months: 1. Cindex 6.1 can put .xtg (QuarkXpress tags) on any of its indexes automatically. 2. Quark files cannot be converted automatically to Word files of any kind (readable, printable, etc), according to hi-tech ISPs in Kazoo. Wouldn't surprise me if Word to Quark was also impossible. 3. Word files readily automatically convert to HTML-coded files. This may not help you, but might scope out realistic expectations. Diane in Kazoo ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 10:21:03 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Maro Riofrancos Subject: Re: Word to Quark In-Reply-To: <19980313150914.DACT26311@listserv.cuny.edu> Quark files can be converted to Word files in the following steps: 1. Create a PS (Postscript) file, using the Print Job command in the File menu. 2. Convert the PS file to a PDF file, using Acrobat Distiller. 3. Convert the PDF file to an RTF file, using Ambia Aerial. 4. Open the file in Word and save as Word document. It's a very easy process. Maro > -----Original Message----- > From: Indexer's Discussion Group > [mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of WordenDex > Sent: Friday, March 13, 1998 10:04 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Word to Quark > > > Dick, > > To add what may be unneeded comments to this saga, I found out these facts > during the past several months: > 1. Cindex 6.1 can put .xtg (QuarkXpress tags) on any of its indexes > automatically. > 2. Quark files cannot be converted automatically to Word files of any kind > (readable, printable, etc), according to hi-tech ISPs in Kazoo. Wouldn't > surprise me if Word to Quark was also impossible. > 3. Word files readily automatically convert to HTML-coded files. > This may not help you, but might scope out realistic expectations. > Diane in Kazoo > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 10:47:20 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cheryl Jackson Subject: Re[2]: Word to Quark And Word files can be converted to Quark by simplying importing them into Quark with the Get Text command in the File menu. If you used style sheets in your Word document, make sure that the Import Style Sheets check box is checked. Cheryl Jackson Macmillan Computer Publishing ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Word to Quark Author: Maro Riofrancos at internet Date: 3/13/98 10:21 AM Quark files can be converted to Word files in the following steps: 1. Create a PS (Postscript) file, using the Print Job command in the File menu. 2. Convert the PS file to a PDF file, using Acrobat Distiller. 3. Convert the PDF file to an RTF file, using Ambia Aerial. 4. Open the file in Word and save as Word document. It's a very easy process. Maro > -----Original Message----- > From: Indexer's Discussion Group > [mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of WordenDex > Sent: Friday, March 13, 1998 10:04 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Word to Quark > > > Dick, > > To add what may be unneeded comments to this saga, I found out these facts > during the past several months: > 1. Cindex 6.1 can put .xtg (QuarkXpress tags) on any of its indexes > automatically. > 2. Quark files cannot be converted automatically to Word files of any kind > (readable, printable, etc), according to hi-tech ISPs in Kazoo. Wouldn't > surprise me if Word to Quark was also impossible. > 3. Word files readily automatically convert to HTML-coded files. > This may not help you, but might scope out realistic expectations. > Diane in Kazoo > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 07:58:37 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Shawvan Subject: ASI Golden Gate March 21 Conf. Registration is still available for the Golden Gate Chapter's 15th Annual Conference, Saturday, March 21, featuring a workshop: JESSICA MILSTEAD on "THESAURUS DEVELOPMENT AND VOCABULARY MANAGEMENT" This event is a rare West Coast opportunity to learn about the theory and practice of thesaurus construction and vocabulary control. Jessica Milstead is a consultant on thesaurus and index design, and author of the book _Subject Access Systems_. The workshop will appeal to back-of-the-book indexers interested in an important perspective on conceptual analysis, to database indexers who work with controlled vocabularies, to librarians and others who do online searching, and to all professionals involved with access to information. In addition, the all-day program will include: KEYNOTE SPEAKER: Yahoo! Indexing Specialist AND: PANEL of INDEXING EXPERTS: "Information Science, Databases, and Internet/Intranets" DATE: Saturday, March 21 8:30-9:00 check-in, coffee & pastries 9:00-4:30 program coffee breaks lunch of salmon filet access to vendor exhibits & information tables LOCATION: Berkeley City Club 2315 Durant Avenue Berkeley (between Dana and Elsworth, adjacent to public parking) REGISTRATION: $75 ASI members $85 non-members To register, please complete the registration form below. For further information (or for vendors wishing to exhibit), please contact Robyn Brode, Conference Chair: rbrode@earthlink.net, or (510)704-8584. -------------------------------------------------------------------- REGISTRATION - ASI GOLDEN GATE CHAPTER CONFERENCE March 21, 1998 Name_________________________________________________________ Address______________________________________________________ Phone__________________________Email_________________________ ASI member($75)______Non-member($85)______ Please make check payable to "ASI Golden Gate Chapter" and send with registration form by March 14 to: Therese Shere GG-ASI Conference Registrar 7566 Eastside Road Healdsburg, CA 95448-9301 Registrations after March 14 will be taken on a space-available basis, with an additional $10 fee. For registration information or to place a commitment, email tshere7566@aol.com or call (707)838-7823. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 11:00:20 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SHughes512 Subject: Re: Business Expenses Our business is probably a bit different from others because: 1) Last year it was 2 people part-time = one full-timer?? preobably not. 2) We didn't do a lot of marketing because we had enough work. 3) We want to sell our house within 2 years so we don't want to mess with the home office deductions. All supplies (paper, stamps, staples, rubberbands, folders, cards etc.) = 9.5% Travel + entertaining (local, we didn't do the national meeting last year) = 1% Research materials not including the internet (books, papers, magazines) = 5% Telecommunications (Internet, telephone, faxes) = 5% Membership in professional organizations (several, for 2 people) = 1% Education (includes courses and conferences) = 2% Labor (for temp - two projects) = 3.5% Hardware = new printers, new computer - not included above. Software - not included above That's around 27% of gross income to run the business ( more for equipment costs but that won't happen every year - unless I keep thinking of new gadgets) I'd love to see a breakdown for full timers since I started indexing full-time in January. Now we are 1 full timer and 1 part-time indexer. 8-) Sharon ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 11:48:23 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: RHurd44884 Subject: Pricing I have recently started marketing my indexing services. I had one person write: "We find we are able to get high-quality professional indexes in a variety of subject areas for about $2/page. Occasionally we have paid as much as $2.25 for a technical book or when we needed an aggressive schedule." and another write: "We pay $1.25-$1.50 a book page." Are these the going rates or are these people trying to take advantage of my inexperience? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:16:09 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sanindex Subject: Re: Pricing I am not sure if you are a member of ASI. If so, you should have received a copy of the 1997 salary and work habits survey. It was published last summer in KeyWords. The rates you mentioned are very low at least for the more experienced indexer. Only 2.9% reported rates less than $2.00 a page. Sandi Schroeder, chairperson, salary survey ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:46:53 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: CGWeaver Subject: Re: Pricing In a message dated 98-03-13 11:50:20 EST, you write: << I have recently started marketing my indexing services. I had one person write: "We find we are able to get high-quality professional indexes in a variety of subject areas for about $2/page. Occasionally we have paid as much as $2.25 for a technical book or when we needed an aggressive schedule." and another write: "We pay $1.25-$1.50 a book page." Are these the going rates or are these people trying to take advantage of my inexperience? >> Interesting! Sounds very similar to responses I got from certain publishers (whom I didn't work for then, either!) when I started freelancing in _1991_. I think the ASI survey (don't have a copy at hand) shows that the going rates are now $2.50/$7.00/pg, depending on the complexity of the material. You might choose to accept less in the beginning if it's in a conscious desire to gain experience rather than make money; but it should be clear to the client that it's an exception rather than standard practice among the profession. Also, keep in mind something that I overheard an editor from a major press say at an ASI annual meeting. In evaluating resumes from potential freelancers, she is very skeptical about those with long lists of indexes done for certain publishers. It's easy to get cheap labor; quality costs. Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, WA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 09:49:02 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: Pricing In-Reply-To: <199803131649.LAA03228@camel5.mindspring.com> These are really low rates. Think about it - a 400 page book for $500 (that's at 1.25 per page)? That would mean you would have to complete it in 20 hours to make yourself $25.00 an hour. (If you want to make more than that per hour, you will have to do the book in even less time). If you allowed 4 hours to edit the index, that would mean you would have to read, markup, and input entries at a rate of 25 pages per hour, or at least get through 200 pages in a day. Unless it is a really really simple book, I doubt I can do 200 pages per day and have it be anywhere near the kind of qualilty I usually try to do. Now, you don't have to do it that fast. You may have long deadlines, and it could be a very leisurely indexing job. Let's say you have two weeks to do it in. You need to decide what is the best use of your time. Spending 60 hours during those two weeks on an index that pays only $500 means you wind up making only $8.33 an hour. Maybe that is okay, but for me, I would like to see a lot more money come out of each hour I put in, and indexing at those rates simply isn't worth it. You could take on a project at $3.00 per page (if you can find one ...) and spend the same 60 hours on it, and make $20.00 an hour. Don't forget that your bid on a project, arranging for contracts, faxing samples, querying editors, etc., all come out of that same amount too, as that is all you get for the job. All these tasks are unbillable, and all could be put towards projects that pay a living wage. Project management and administration lowers the amount you make even more. When I entered the field, $2.00 per page was quoted as the low end of pricing. That was in 1991. $1.25 and $1.50 were unacceptable then, and even more so now. $2.00 is low for an experienced indexer. If you are fast enough you can make a living wage with it, but I would look for other publishers if I were you. At 11:48 AM 3/13/98 EST, you wrote: >I have recently started marketing my indexing services. I had one person >write: "We find we are able to get high-quality professional indexes in a >variety of subject areas for about $2/page. Occasionally we have paid as much >as $2.25 for a technical book or when we needed an aggressive schedule." and >another write: "We pay $1.25-$1.50 a book page." > >Are these the going rates or are these people trying to take advantage of my >inexperience? > Jan +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ Jan C. Wright Wright Information Indexing Services Jancw@mindspring.com http://www.mindspring.com/~jancw +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 13:36:09 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Word to Quark At 10:03 AM 3/13/98 EST, you wrote: >Dick, > >To add what may be unneeded comments to this saga, I found out these facts >during the past several months: > 1. Cindex 6.1 can put .xtg (QuarkXpress tags) on any of its indexes >automatically. Which would give you what? A stand alone index in Quark format? You wouldn't have the tags embedded in the Quark document, would you? Dick ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 13:40:19 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Pricing At 11:48 AM 3/13/98 EST, you wrote: >I have recently started marketing my indexing services. I had one person >write: "We find we are able to get high-quality professional indexes in a >variety of subject areas for about $2/page. Occasionally we have paid as much >as $2.25 for a technical book or when we needed an aggressive schedule." and >another write: "We pay $1.25-$1.50 a book page." > >Are these the going rates or are these people trying to take advantage of my >inexperience? No, they are trying to take advantage of *everybody* with those rates. I've been told the same thing and I've looked at the "high-quality professional indexes" and the client is getting just what they pay for. Smile, thank them for their time, and move on. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 13:56:36 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: W: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Martin Ahermaa Subject: Re(2): Pricing If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 14:03:21 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: WordenDex Subject: Re: Word to Quark Dick, Using Cindex 6.1 would not put indexing into a Quark document. However, it could output the Cindex-generated index with Quark tags for ready incorporation into a book produced with Quark software. Hardcopy production of book with index would then come from a single electronic format. Interesting to read of others' ease of Word to Quark conversions. Have the Quark to Word or Quark to HTML conversions been possible for anyone? Diane in Kazoo ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 13:21:35 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Joanne E. Clendenen" Organization: AfterWords Indexing Services Subject: Re: Pricing RHurd44884 wrote: > > I have recently started marketing my indexing services. I had one person > write: "We find we are able to get high-quality professional indexes in a > variety of subject areas for about $2/page. Occasionally we have paid as much > as $2.25 for a technical book or when we needed an aggressive schedule." and > another write: "We pay $1.25-$1.50 a book page." > > Are these the going rates or are these people trying to take advantage of my > inexperience? Excuse me, but these people are paying way to little to get professional indexing done. I certainly hope that very few indexers are charging so small an amount; they couldn't make a living at it unless they could do very superficial and short indexes very fast. I don't go in for all this confidentiality business with rates. I charge minimum $3.00/page for a regular trade book with pages 6X9 inches in size and covering subjects from lightweight business books to fairly dense biographies. I will charge more for rush, more for bigger page sizes, and more for really dense material, like these sociology books I do with lots of statistical analysis. I know that textbook publishers like to pay less, but their books are pretty fast to do, I understand. Some of the people I know charge much more ($4-6/page) for technical material that requires specialized knowledge. Joanne -- AfterWords Indexing Services Joanne E. Clendenen email: jbclend@bigfoot.com http://www.flash.net/~jbclend ---------------- "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not any simpler." Einstein ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 14:30:37 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: judith elaine martin Subject: index list serve subscription please remove my name from the subscription list. thank you very much. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 14:31:06 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MaryMort Subject: Re: Pricing Hi, Rick, << I have recently started marketing my indexing services. I had one person write: "We find we are able to get high-quality professional indexes in a variety of subject areas for about $2/page. Occasionally we have paid as much as $2.25 for a technical book or when we needed an aggressive schedule." and another write: "We pay $1.25-$1.50 a book page." >> I agree with what others have said about these rates sounding low for the circumstances. However, I think there are cases when less than $2.50/page might be reasonable. I have one client who pays me $2/indexable page for beginning software textbooks. Partly because I've done so many of these, but mainly because there are lots of screen shots and exercises, I get them done very quickly. I just checked my records, and for the last four of these indexes, I made between $55 and $67/hour. Not bad; each book took only 2.5 to 5.5 hours however, so I'm not raking in big bucks for these! Also, I recently completed indexing a year of a children's magazine in a small format (7 x 9 inch pages), lots of illustrations, and an average of 1.8 entries/page. I charged a little over $1/indexable page for this project (I rounded up to the next $100) and made around $25/hour. I would add to Sandi's note about the ASI survey results that the question asked for the _average_ rate over the previous 12 months. When I answered the question, I had done some indexes for $1.75/page (other computer books) but many for $2.25 and $2.50, so my answer was the choice "$2.00-2.49". Maybe in a future survey, we could also ask what the lowest and highest actual rates were, in addition to the average. Although it all depends, I would agree that for trade, professional or technical books, the rates you were quoted are low. And there are publishers who pay more. Mary -- * Mary Mortensen * marymort@aol.com * Lawrence, Kansas, USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:04:43 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Word to Quark In-Reply-To: <199803130516.XAA15635@mixcom.mixcom.com> >How do I get all the chapters together? A master document? Simply >combining them all into one file? I have Word for the Mac, but I assume that all versions of Word can do this. Here are the Mac instructions, which I hope you can translate if you're not on a Mac: Open the first doc. you want to link. From the Format menu, choose Document. Choose the File Series button. To number pages consecutively across docs., select the Continue button under Page Numbers. Choose Next File button and then select the next doc. you want to link and select Open. Close the File Series box by choosing OK. Close the Document box by choosing OK. Close the doc. and save the changes. All of that is just for the first doc. (say, the first chapter). Do the same thing for all the other chapters except the last. For the last chapter, you do these steps up to the "Next File" part. I haven't had occasion to use this function myself, but my husband uses it all the time, and it seems to work. > >What are the prospects for exporting the results to Quark? Haven't done it, but some of my clients have, so I guess the prospects are good. Good luck. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 15:38:57 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: Pricing In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980313134017.006fd24c@pop.mindspring.com> I got that same, er, doo doo from the client I mentioned in my last post. I told him I was raising my minimum rate to $3/page. He said he had several other indexers who did an adequate job (his words) for $2 to $2.50 and actually said, they must not read Index-L when I said that $3 seemed to be the typical minimum rate among subscribers to it. I said, well, if you change your mind, let me know. And sure enough, 6 months later he was back at my rate. I do have one client, an author who self-publishes, that I charge only $2.50/page to, but her books are so lightly indexed (typically less than one entry per page) and they are so much fun, and I can do them in such a short amount of time, that I really make more than $30/hour even at that rate. In fact, I just got her newest book this morning. In fact, I feel guilty charging even that much, but I gotta make a living. She certainly has the option of finding one of those buck a page indexers. Hmmm, that makes me think of those All for a Buck stores in which every single thing costs a buck each. And it's all seconds, low quality, and/or surplus stuff. And I have one beloved client who pays per entry and is non-negotiable but I wouldn't give them up for anything. I still make a pretty good hourly rate from their books, some better, some worse, but still averaging over several books about $3/page. About a year ago I decided not to take any more work at low rates just for practice. I still only consider myself an intermediate, and when I feel I'm an advanced intermediate I'll raise my minimum again, and so on. I do try to be flexible, though, and would certainly do a very light book for someone else at a lower rate. It all depends. I'm doing a book for someone soon that I'll be charging $5/page for as it will be about 10 entries per page. And we have already agreed that if it turns out to be even more dense, or significantly less dense, that we will adjust the fee. I usually figure 4-6 entries per page at my $3 fee, and adjust from there. My 2 bucks. Rachel >At 11:48 AM 3/13/98 EST, you wrote: >>I have recently started marketing my indexing services. I had one person >>write: "We find we are able to get high-quality professional indexes in a >>variety of subject areas for about $2/page. Occasionally we have paid as much >>as $2.25 for a technical book or when we needed an aggressive schedule." and >>another write: "We pay $1.25-$1.50 a book page." Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 17:24:02 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "S. Greenhouse" Subject: Long range reprieve Maria Coughlin, of the Long-Range Planning Committee asked me to post the following: >Due to circumstances completely beyond our control and despite our >best efforts to have the long-range planning questionnaire in all ASI >members' hands in plenty of time, we are aware that many members >received it after the deadline. We are therefore asking that they fill out >and return their questionnaires by May 1 (yes, that's May first), since the >board will be having another strategic planning meeting on May 11 >(eleven). And, for all of us who threw out or otherwise eliminated the long range questionnaire because we didn't submit it in time, it is still linked to the ASI web page: http://www.well.com/user/asi/long.htm Fill 'em out and send 'em in.