From: SMTP%"LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu" 1-JUL-1998 14:47:38.81 To: CIRJA02 CC: Subj: File: "INDEX-L LOG9805E" Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 13:44:32 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9805E" To: CIRJA02@GSVMS1.CC.GASOU.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 00:16:45 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: EMickiT@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Scientific Names and Parens In a message dated 98-05-28 17:44:53 EDT, you write: << Should it be: acorn (Quercus sp.) - where parens are in Roman or acorn (Quercus sp.) - where parens are italicized >> Hello Beth, The editor I am currently working for and The Chicago Manual of Style (14th edition, 7.101 to 7.104) both say that the genus name should always be in italics and the abbreviations should be in Roman. The editor also wants me to differentiate between sp. and spp. When a single unknown or unspecified species is discussed, use sp. and when several species within the genus are discussed, use the plural, spp. I don't know what indexing program you use, but if you already have quite a few entries typed in, Cindex can search for a pattern, such as a capital letter, which may speed up the process of finding all the genus names. Other programs probably have a similar feature. Erin (Micki) Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 10:32:54 +0900 Reply-To: stroud@mail.netvigator.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Headley and Adrian Walker-Smith Subject: Re: "Book Index on Net Only" article >From Christine Headley IndexJim@AOL.COM wrote: > > BTW, the hyperlink from George Bush is to a porno site. Their link ended .com > instead of .gov. Makes a world of difference. Which just goes to show an advantage of an amendable index. By the time I got to it, the link was to the White House (thought I would have had to search for George Bush). >From the index and other guff about the book on the website, I would say that it is intrinsically worthless and only of interest to real computer freaks. And then only once. A real here-today-and-gone-tomorrow book. Perhaps that's why S&S didn't want to waste money commissioning a proper index... Christine Headley Hong Kong > Jim Pilarski > Pilarski Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 07:48:33 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Nancy A. Guenther" Subject: Re: Scanning >Wow Carol can you enlighten me on your scanning technique? What sort of >scanner do you use? I just got an HP 5P and I was disappointed by the >results with bibliography pages. It uses OmniPage Lite but comes with an >offer for OmniPage Pro. > >All the names and initials read in quite well, perfect in fact as far as I >could tell on my test page, but the problem I ran into was there were a lot >of weird formatting going on in the Word file. One suggestion for eliminating weird formatting after scanning (at least it works in WordPerfect). Save the file as ASCII text (making sure you have your hard returns where you want them) and then reopen the file in your word processor. This almost always gives me a much cleaner file to work with. Nancy Guenther nanguent@chesco.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 08:41:02 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Russell Gasero Subject: Re: Scanning The OCR software often attempts to retain formatting and save it in the format you designate. This includes margins, type size, etc. One way around this is to save the file as an ASCII text file and then reopen the file in your word processor. This will strip out the formatting and leave you with cleaner copy to work with. Remember to select to save it either with or without line returns, depending on your preference and needs. You can experiment with both to see how it works. Russell Gasero Reformed Church Archives ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 09:02:07 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joe Miller Subject: Re: Scientific Names and Parens > The editor wants parens italicized if the full scientific > name is used as in: (Castanea detanta) but has not specified in the > case of a partial name=2E Beth, As I remember it from my days as a Biology student, Linnean names (genus and species) are always italicized=2E And Sharon Wright wrote: > abbreviations like et al=2E and Ibid=2E should technically be italicized=2E But then, Chicago says "Familiar words and phrases in a foreign language should be set in roman=2E=2E=2E", then goes on to say, "The problem, of course, lies in deciding [what] is familiar=2E" (I didn't say it'd be an easy decision, did I? ) -- Chicago Manual of Style, 6=2E58, 13th Ed=2E, 1982=2E --Joe Miller joemiller@canberra=2Ecom ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 09:27:10 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Scanning In-Reply-To: <199805290401.XAA14348@mixcom.mixcom.com> >Wow Carol can you enlighten me on your scanning technique? What sort of >scanner do you use? I just got an HP 5P and I was disappointed by the >results with bibliography pages. It uses OmniPage Lite but comes with an >offer for OmniPage Pro. > >All the names and initials read in quite well, perfect in fact as far as I >could tell on my test page, but the problem I ran into was there were a lot >of weird formatting going on in the Word file. Part of the way down the >margins would change; then change back, etc. Does this occur when you do >it? Is there a trick to setting up the Word file _before_ you read in the >scanned data and OCRize it? The one I'm working on now is a Psych text with >about 180 bibliography pages. I would be very "psyched" if I could work out >an elegant way to do this easier, since doing the subject index is intense >enough! Kevin, I have a Visioneer PaperPort Vx, an older model. I work on a Mac, but I don't know whether the PaperPort is Mac-specific. The OCR software I'm using now is OmniPage Lite, but I do hope to get that TextBridge Pro installed before the next time I want to scan in a bibliography. The advantage of TextBridge Pro, besides better character recognition, is that it's supposed to preserve layout better, including fonts, tables, and graphics. Yes, I found the margins were ragged, but it was easy to fix. Just select the whole text and reset the margin. I don't know of any trick to setting up the Word file in advance. With the PaperPort, you simply drag an icon of the scanned document onto the icon of the word processor you use, and it automagically converts it into an editable doc. Since you got even better results than I did in terms of typos, I would go ahead and scan that biblio., knowing that you'll want to adjust margins later. I'm not even sure whether you need to worry about margins, anyway. What does Cindex care where your margins are when you import a text file? I found that--and I don't know whether this is specific to Mac--that when it came time to import the Word doc into Cindex, Cindex would recognize the file as an appropriate tab-dilineated file to import only if I had first saved it as text-only. With a biblio. the size you describe, you'll want a global-change trick that would make it unnecessary to delete all the unwanted material in the biblio. (date, title of book, publication into, etc.). For example, if your biblio. entries look mostly like this Adams, Jonathan S., and T. O. McShane. 1992. _The myth of wild Africa: Conservation without illusion._ New York: W. W. Norton and Company. you could globally replace . 1 [that is, period space one] with {1 then replace the hard return ^p with a right curly bracket and hard return }^p That would throw everything but the actual names into hidden text when you import it into Cindex, so you wouldn't have to delete it at all. Of course, you have to make sure that the Cindex file is first set up with a large number for the "maximum characters per record." I hope this works for you and that you'll post to Index-L, letting us know. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 09:30:44 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Weiss Subject: List of languages of the world The publisher I work for is looking for a list of the languages of the world. This list must include both the English names for the languages and the native versions of the names. All names need to be in the Roman alphabet, (It would basically be an equivalency table.) I've already looked at websites giving the Library of Congress USMARC Code List for languages. This list does not give native versions of the names of languages. I've also found a website for a book called Ethonologue. This book includes about 6700 language names and does include native versions of the names of the languages. Unfortunately, there is no cross reference from the English name to the native versions of the names. If any of you know of a better list, I'd like to hear from you. Sue Weiss Tax Analysts SWEISS @ TAX.ORG ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 11:18:09 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Re: Scanning Thanks for the great tips, Carol, Nancy, and Russell. My HP Scanjet 5p (I left out the scanjet part in my earlier post) uses the Visoneer PaperPort software with OmniPage Lite. I really like PaperPort, though if it wasn't for the great HP tech support I never would have gotten the scanner up and running; they had to walk me through adding all sorts of undocumented lines in config.sys to get it going. I will definitely keep the index-L folks up to date on my progress! I'm having a blast using this scanner. I was up to 4:00 am scanning pics, putting coins right on the scanner to scan, etc. Thanks Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 12:56:09 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Weiss Subject: Spelling out numerals I generally spell out numerals in my index entries. I often find I am uncertain of how to do this when the numeral has 4 or 5 digits. For example, what would be the best way to spell out the names of the following corporations? 11095 Viking Inc. (The mailing address is in Tallahassee.) 12300 Corp. (The mailing address is in Glendale California.) I'd like to hear from anyone who has some suggestions. Sue Weiss Tax Analysts SWEISS @ TAX.ORG ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:06:20 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Coffield, Janice M." Subject: Re: Spelling out numerals [Coffield, Janice M.] Why spell it out in this case? Just alphabetize them where they'd appear if they were spelled out and users will find them anyway. So, 11095 would appear sorted under "eleven...." Not very creative naming conventions, I must say! Janice > I generally spell out numerals in my index entries. I often find I am > uncertain of how to do this when the numeral has 4 or 5 digits. For > example, what would be the best way to spell out the names of the > following > corporations? > > 11095 Viking Inc. (The mailing address is in Tallahassee.) > > 12300 Corp. (The mailing address is in Glendale California.) > > I'd like to hear from anyone who has some suggestions. > > Sue Weiss > Tax Analysts > SWEISS @ TAX.ORG ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 11:10:48 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: Scanning At 09:27 AM 5/29/98 -0500, Carol Roberts wrote: >. . . >With a biblio. the size you describe, you'll want a global-change trick >that would make it unnecessary to delete all the unwanted material in the >biblio. (date, title of book, publication into, etc.). For example, if your >biblio. entries look mostly like this > > Adams, Jonathan S., and T. O. McShane. 1992. _The myth of wild Africa: > Conservation without illusion._ New York: W. W. Norton and Company. > >you could globally replace > > . 1 > >[that is, period space one] with > > {1 > >then replace the hard return > > ^p > >with a right curly bracket and hard return > > }^p > >That would throw everything but the actual names into hidden text when you >import it into Cindex, so you wouldn't have to delete it at all. Of course, >you have to make sure that the Cindex file is first set up with a large >number for the "maximum characters per record." Terrific idea, Carol, and here's one to add to it: having put what you don't want in curly brackets, delete it all with a repeating macro that searches for "{", selects from "{" through "}", and then deletes the selection. I often create and run repeating ("chained") macros in WordPerfect 5.1 but I don't know how to do this in Word: anybody able to tell how? Michael Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 530-272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 13:14:46 -0500 Reply-To: mksmith1@bellsouth.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Organization: Smith Editorial Services Subject: Experience with expansion of work An item of possible interest: When I retired from my fulltime job at the Dallas Public Library last February (after 30 years), I moved to Baton Rouge and worked up a brochure to stimulate what had heretofore ("thentofore"?) been only a part-time operation (including copyediting). In March, I sent out about 200 of them -- why not? -- but I expected it would take probably a year to significantly increase my business with new clients, additional work from established clients, etc. Well, it's now only May and I'm presently getting about *twice* the number of billable pages/hours I had this time last year -- right on target, in fact! A number of these projects are scheduled into the summer and early fall, too, so I don't think it's just a hill-and-valley phenomenon. I'm not so ego-driven as to think this is all due to my own sterling abilities... so is there an expanding market that I wasn't aware of? Anyone else having similar experiences? -- Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 13:24:38 -0500 Reply-To: mksmith1@bellsouth.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Organization: Smith Editorial Services Subject: Re: computer indexing for novices When I was learning book cataloging in library school, back c1969, it wasn't computerized at all. We learned by constructing -- and typing -- actual cards. Later, of course, nobody in their right mind would actually have tried to work that way on the job. Still, for learning the basic theory, it was very useful. I ran into many cataloging clerks in later years who couldn't even visual a "card catalog" because they'd been taught on computer only. My first few indexes (15+ years ago) were also done on cards. As soon as Cindex became available, I switched over with a great sigh of relief. But I wonder if it might be useful to teach the basics with 3x5 cards and a shoebox, just doing a chapter or two of a book.... Or maybe I'm just very visually oriented. I still have trouble absorbing large amounts of text of any kind when I read it only on the screen; I prefer to print it out and read it while lying on my back. :) Ann Hudson wrote: > When I give training days in indexing I am often asked if it is a good id= > ea > to start straight away with a computer-assisted indexing program like > MACREX or CINDEX, or whether it is easier to begin by using the > old-fashioned cards-in-shoeboxes method. > > ANN HUDSON -- Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 13:29:22 -0500 Reply-To: mksmith1@bellsouth.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Organization: Smith Editorial Services Subject: Re: computer indexing for novices Barry Koffler wrote: > And my first computer was a Tandy > TRS-80 (affectionately known as the TRaSh-80) which was almost as bad as > working on a typewriter (anybody remember them?). > > -Barry > > oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooobarkof@ulster.net Barry > Koffler mid-Hudson Valley, NY > the FeatherSite at > http://www.feathersite.com/ > lead me not into temptation . . . I can find it myself. > ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Oh, yeah...! I recall how exciting it was to quadruple my RAM -- from 4K to a whopping 16K. I have bigger batch files than that now. And the luxury of adding an actual flopping drive -- no more serial data storage on casette tape. I was able to teach myself the basics of programming, too -- in numbered-line Tandy BASIC. I wish I'd kept that poor old Mod I.... Mike -- Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 13:37:47 -0500 Reply-To: mksmith1@bellsouth.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Organization: Smith Editorial Services Subject: Re: delayed indexes As they say, this is unfortunately a fact of life. Only about twice in the past half-dozen years have I encountered a serious delay in receiving the indexer's pages -- long enough that it bumped into the next scheduled project. This is especially a problem, I've found, in working with university presses, where most of the authors are academics and there's seldom a rigid marketing deadline. Both were from publishers I liked working for -- and in both cases I regretfully had to call the managing editor and explain that my schedule was too full to wait for the delayed pages. But, also in both cases, the editor not only was apologetic, they put me near the top of the list for their *next* project. I think they were also reassured to know that I was good enough at this stuff to have more than just one client! Mike STortora wrote: > Does anyone have trouble with indexes that get delayed? I like working for > the publisher I am currently doing an index for, however I find that I never > know when pages are going to arrive. I called the compositor directly and > finally got some sort of schedule. It seems that the 'domino effect' wins > out. The author is dragging his heels which makes everybody wait. Is this > normal? I am fairly new to indexing so I don't know if maybe this is the way > it goes or if I should be concerned. > > Sue -- Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 13:41:57 -0500 Reply-To: mksmith1@bellsouth.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Organization: Smith Editorial Services Subject: Re: dictionaries I have Webster's 10th Collegiate on my shelf, since it's often specified, but my preferred dictionary is American Heritage New College Edition, which I find excellent for all uses. Mike J. Naomi Linzer wrote: > I am curious as to what basic dictionary sits on an indexer's desk and > should be purchased by one who is just setting up one's library as a new > indexer? (I have been hobbling along with Webster's Seventh New Collegiate > that I got for some occassion in 1967. I know the different dictionaries > each have their strengths and want to know if it makes a difference for an > indexer to choose one over the other. > > Thanks for your past responses to my question about indexing software, WP > programs and the nicknames I'm encountering in my volunteer indexing > project.] > > Naomi > > ******************************************************************************* * > J. Naomi Linzer, Humboldt County, CA > Please note my new e-mail address: jnlinzer@saber.net > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > "And in such indexes, although small pricks to their subsequent volumes, > there is seen the baby figure of the giant mass of things to come at > large." > William Shakespeare: "Troilus and Cressida" > ******************************************************************************* * -- Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:39:38 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sam Andrusko Subject: WP5.1 macros (was Re: Scanning) In-Reply-To: <199805291811.OAA88660@rs8.loc.gov> On Fri, 29 May 1998, Michael Brackney wrote: > Terrific idea, Carol, and here's one to add to it: having put what you don't > want in curly brackets, delete it all with a repeating macro that searches > for "{", selects from "{" through "}", and then deletes the selection. > > I often create and run repeating ("chained") macros in WordPerfect 5.1 but I > don't know how to do this in Word: anybody able to tell how? Hmm, guess this is off topic, but I'd certainly like to see your macro program for doing this on WP5.1!! Can you post it or send it to me privately? Many thanks. Sam Andrusko ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:38:57 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Spelling out numerals I'm not even an indexer, only a user, and would expect "numerals first". Or have the rules changed when I wasn't watching? IMHO Dave T. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 13:56:09 -0500 Reply-To: mksmith1@bellsouth.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Organization: Smith Editorial Services Subject: Re: Indexing process I used to mark up the pages, long ago, but I quit doing that early on; who has the time? I'm careful to sit down (actually, lie down...) and scan the *entire book* before I start. That gives me a good idea of the "flow" of subjects, so I'll know what I should be looking for. Then I just start in. As I go along, and especially at the end, I'll delete or amend some entries if I realize I'm over-indexing or that there are going to be a lot of needed subentries for some main entry. Seems to work for me, anyway. :) Mike J.A Binns wrote: > Craig Brown wrote: > >Generally I mark up the text with hiliters a chapter at a time and then > >make the entries for the chapter. While marking up I rely on my memory > >to come close to term selection. > > As a matter of interest, how many indexers mark the text before starting to > type? I just launch straight in and start typing entries as I read the > text. > ============================ > Margaret Binns > Indexer > binns@hangleton.u-net.com > ============================ -- Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 13:51:43 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "McCullough, Elizabeth W" Subject: Re: Spelling out numerals I'm curious about the context - What ARE these companies? "12300 Corp."??? How are they pronouned - "Twelve-Three-Hundred Corp"? Elizabeth _______________________________________________ > "Correspondence is the consolation of life." - Voltaire ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 15:00:50 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elizabeth Tudor Subject: Re: List of languages of the world Susan, I'm not sure that you are going to find English names for many languages. Once you get much beyond your basic world languages (those found in a good dictionary) there will be alternate names but often no "common" English name. (see below) In a message dated 5/29/98 2:37:24 PM, Susan_Weiss@TAX.ORG wrote: >The publisher I work for is looking for a list of the languages of the >world. This list must include both the English names for the languages and >the native versions of the names. All names need to be in the Roman >alphabet, (It would basically be an equivalency table.) > (snip) >I've also found a website for a book called Ethonologue. This book includes >about 6700 language names and does include native versions of the names of >the languages. Unfortunately, there is no cross reference from the English >name to the native versions of the names. If you talk about a fairly well-known language such as the language of Java (the most populous island in Indonesia), the national language is Indonesian, the traditional languages of the island include Javanese (in English)/Bahasa Jawa (in Javanese and Indonesian)/Sundanese (Bahasa Sunda). These languages are spoken by hundreds of millions of people and are taught in a few (very few) American schools. But if you are talking about languages like those spoken by small isolated groups (in places like Papua New Guinea) then there maybe only one name. For example, the Enga live in the interior of New Guinea, number about 25,000, and (since Papua was an British colony) there are a number of books in English about the Enga. However, there is no common English name for Enga language. Then there are languages which no longer exist or are only spoken by 10 or 20 people. Those folks have a name for their own language but no one else (except the linguists and anthropologists who study the language) may even be aware it exists. A lot of such languages will be listed on Ethnologue (its an excellent site) but there won't be any English name for them. You may be able to find a more complete list of languages in some linguistic data base but I don't know of any freely available on the internet. Try contacting your local anthropology department, asking for a linguist. They may have access to a database which will have more nearly what you want. Good Luck, Beth Tudor (anthropologist and indexer) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:13:42 -0500 Reply-To: mksmith1@bellsouth.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Organization: Smith Editorial Services Subject: Re: Multi-authored works It probably depends on how many multiple authors there are in the volume. I've done a few symposium-collections and such, and when there are a dozen or more authors with a comparatimvely short chapter/paper by each, I would include their names (and possibly the titles of the papers) in the index. If it's a book by, say, three or four people, even if the contribution of each is clearly separated, I probably would NOT include their names in the index. J.A Binns wrote: > This follows on from a recent discussion regarding index entries for the > authors of each chapter in a multi-authored work. I am never sure whether > this is really necessary, as it is clear who has written what from the > Table of Contents. But, for reasons too complicated to explain now, in the > current book I am putting them in. > > Anyway, my query is what do the rest of you do about the page range of the > chapter when after the main text there are several pages of notes, followed > by several pages of references? Do you include the whole thing in the page > range, or just the main text, or the text plus notes (technically this is > what has actually been written by the author). > > This is something I change my mind about constantly, and have never felt > really happy about. I look forward to hearing what other people do. > > Margaret Binns > > ============================ > Margaret Binns > Indexer > 20 Hangleton Manor Close > Hove, Sussex, BN3 8AJ, UK > Tel: 01273 420844 > binns@hangleton.u-net.com > ============================ -- Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:19:50 -0500 Reply-To: mksmith1@bellsouth.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Organization: Smith Editorial Services Subject: Re: names, first name unknown Really? Gee, Sonsie, I find name indexes pretty easy.... :) I have a set routine for incomplete names, though. If it's someone I can find in one of my several biographical dictionaries, encyclopedias, etc, I just include the proper name. If it's someone whose full name I would have no (reasonable) way of discovering, however, I index it like this: Johnson, -----, 255-56 And then I add it to my list of "Questions for the Editor & Author." I figure it's their problem, not mine. Mike Sonsie wrote: > At 12:47 PM 5/22/1998 -0400, Ann Norcross wrote: > > >Ann (Argh! Just received job #2 due on June 1st. From the > >publisher's cover letter (emphasis added by ME): "I don't think the > >index needs to be exhaustive. What I'd like to be able to find when I > >use it, are the NAMES OF INDIVIDUALS, and the NAMES OF UNITS... I > >would like the photo captions included in the index, so if someone is > >looking up [a NAME] they can find his photos." Oh well. I guess I'll > >have mastered name indexes here in a week or so :-) :-). > > Name indexes are a PITB. =Sonsie= -- Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 13:34:23 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Horowitz Subject: Book on Indexing I just saw this announcement. Can You Recommend a Good Book on Indexing by Bella Hass Weinberg To Be Published July 1998 150pp Here is the publisher's blurb "This book contains a selection of top journal reviews of popular books on indexing. The kind of items reviewed fall under the following headings: general and theoretical works, book indexing, database indexing and records management, thesauri, and computer-assisted and automatic indexing. The extensive index makes this an essential guide for those who work or field of study requires them to have an up-to-date knowledge of indexing." ISBN 1-57387-041-2 Publisher Information Today 800 300-9868 609 654-4309 fax custserv@infotoday.com http://www.infotoday.com Roberta Horowitz ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:49:27 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Sutherland Subject: Re: List of languages of the world The message <199805291437.PAA11453@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> from Susan Weiss contains these words: > The publisher I work for is looking for a list of the languages of the > world. This list must include both the English names for the languages and > the native versions of the names. All names need to be in the Roman > alphabet, (It would basically be an equivalency table.) > I've already looked at websites giving the Library of Congress USMARC Code > List for languages. This list does not give native versions of the names > of languages. > I've also found a website for a book called Ethonologue. This book includes > about 6700 language names and does include native versions of the names of > the languages. Unfortunately, there is no cross reference from the English > name to the native versions of the names. > If any of you know of a better list, I'd like to hear from you. No firm knowledge, but you could try the following (if you haven't already!): The LINGUIST List: Language & Language Family Information - http://www.emich.edu/~linguist/languages.html LINGUIST List - http://linguistlist.org/ The Cambridge Encyclopedia of Language - lists names of around 1000 languages, and refers to C. F. & F. M. Voegelin: Classification and Index of the World's Languages (1977) for a fuller list. -- Linda Sutherland linda.sutherland@zetnet.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:27:49 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: WP5.1 macros At 02:39 PM 5/29/98 -0400, Sam Andrusko wrote: > >On Fri, 29 May 1998, Michael Brackney wrote: > >> Terrific idea, Carol, and here's one to add to it: having put what you don't >> want in curly brackets, delete it all with a repeating macro that searches >> for "{", selects from "{" through "}", and then deletes the selection. >> >> I often create and run repeating ("chained") macros in WordPerfect 5.1 but I >> don't know how to do this in Word: anybody able to tell how? > > > Hmm, guess this is off topic, but I'd certainly like to see your >macro program for doing this on WP5.1!! Can you post it or send it to me >privately? Sam: This is not at all off-topic: this tool can be of great use in index file preparation. Steps for creating such a macro: Ctrl-F10 (create macro) DELCHAFF (macro name) Enter Delete text within curly brackets (description) Enter F2 (search) { F2 Left (move cursor ahead of "{") F12 (block on) F2 } F2 Delete (delete block) Y (confirm delete) Alt-F10 (run macro) DELCHAFF Enter Ctrl-F10 (end macro creation) The next-to-last line "chains" the macro to itself. To run the macro: Alt-F10 DELCHAFF Enter Michael Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 530-272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 17:30:44 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "James L. Murphy" Subject: Re: Scientific Names and Parens Nell, So far, you seem to be the only person on the list who actually has addressed Beth's question-- should she use italicized parens when a Latin name in italics includes Roman abbreviations such as sp. or spp. But the real question is not whether the full (genus and species) is used but whether everything between the parens is in italics. I would use regular parens throughout, but if her editor specifies italic parens for italicized names, I think she needs to check with him on the question of what to do when everything within the parens is not italicized. There is some logic to using regular parens when only part of the included material is italicized. Suppose for example you have to use double parens, with a commmon name (genus species (Author))? A better alternative to my mind would be to index common and scientific names. (In any case, I would make that Castanea dentata-- not Castanea detanta.) I didn't keep Beth's message, which is partly why I am responding to yours. Jim Murphy murphy.11@osu.edu At 06:19 PM 5/28/98 -0400, you wrote: >The abbreviation "sp." can stand for various, unknown, or all species. It >always follows the Latin name for the genus. So many species are not >described that it is very very common to find this designation. I would always >follow the same pattern whether the species is specified (NPI) or not, that is >keep the same italicized parentheses. > ><< Many of the species names are simply a genus name with > > the > > abbreviation sp. Fine so far but I'm a little confused about parens > > around > > such a designation. The editor wants parens italicized if the full > > scientific > > name is used as in: (Castanea detanta) but has not specified in the case > > of > > a partial name. > > > > Should it be: acorn (Quercus sp.) - where parens are in Roman > > >> > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:12:42 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elizabeth Tudor Subject: Re: Scientific Names and Parens Thanks to everyone for your interesting comments on my problem. In a message dated 5/29/98 9:33:39 PM, Jim wrote: > [snip] ...the real question is not whether the full (genus and species) is used >but whether everything between the parens is in italics. > >I would use regular parens throughout, but if her editor specifies italic >parens for italicized names, I think she needs to check with him on the >question of what to do when everything within the parens is not italicized. >There is some logic to using regular parens when only part of the included >material is italicized. Suppose for example you have to use double parens, >with a commmon name (genus species (Author))? > The reason for using italicized parens is the problem of overlap - the Roman right parens will overlap the last italicized letter. Chicago suggests that if one part of the species name is in Roman then the parens should be in Roman. I'm worried about this and am now unable to talk to the editor until Monday. My own tendency is to keep the whole name, including sp./spp. italicized. Oh, well. I'll send the editor an email for now. >At 06:19 PM 5/28/98 -0400, Nell wrote: >>The abbreviation "sp." can stand for various, unknown, or all species. It >>always follows the Latin name for the genus. So many species are not >>described that it is very very common to find this designation. I would always >>follow the same pattern whether the species is specified (NPI) or not, that is >>keep the same italicized parentheses. >> Nell is quite correct about the designation sp. and spp. In a number of the author's (archeological) site samples, they were unable to determine species although they were usually able to determine the genus of nut and seed remains. I am double posting common names whenever they are listed in the text. Thanks again for everyon'e help on this slightly abstruse problem. Beth Tudor ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:18:46 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nell Benton Subject: Re: Scientific Names and Parens Jim, I agree with you. I would have made all the parens unitalicized if other non- italicized words were included within. I used to index Entomology Abstracts and Ecology Abstracts. CSI, the publisher, just copied the title of the whole article into the index! The standard in the titles seems to be: \iGenus name species name\I (Order : Family) The parens are straight. BTW, I had to look up the order and family if they weren't given in the article! It could be worse, Beth. Maybe the publisher's style book or other publications can offer more guidance. Nell In a message dated 98-05-29 17:33:36 EDT, Jim wrote: << But the real question is not whether the full (genus and species) is used but whether everything between the parens is in italics. I would use regular parens throughout, but if her editor specifies italic parens for italicized names, I think she needs to check with him on the question of what to do when everything within the parens is not italicized. There is some logic to using regular parens when only part of the included material is italicized. Suppose for example you have to use double parens, with a commmon name (genus species (Author))? A better alternative to my mind would be to index common and scientific names. (In any case, I would make that Castanea dentata-- not Castanea detanta.) Jim Murphy murphy.11@osu.edu At 06:19 PM 5/28/98 -0400, you wrote: >The abbreviation "sp." can stand for various, unknown, or all species. It >always follows the Latin name for the genus. So many species are not >described that it is very very common to find this designation. I would always >follow the same pattern whether the species is specified (NPI) or not, that is >keep the same italicized parentheses. > ><< Many of the species names are simply a genus name with > > the > > abbreviation sp. Fine so far but I'm a little confused about parens > > around > > such a designation. The editor wants parens italicized if the full > > scientific > > name is used as in: (Castanea detanta) but has not specified in the case > > of > > a partial name. > > > > Should it be: acorn (Quercus sp.) - where parens are in Roman > >> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:57:18 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: names in subject indexes At 03:07 PM 5/22/1998 EDT, Do Mi Stauber wrote: > >. . . >Names of people discussed . . . go in the name index . . ., >but if you need them as headings in the subject index you can do that too. I >end up with the name of the _author of the_ theory: Freud in the name index, >Freudian psychoanalytic theory in the subject index. Remember that for the actual >person the reader can go to the name index. But if the person, themselves, not >just their theory, is an actual subject in the book, go ahead and put them in >both indexes. (My opinion.) (italics added -- MB) I share this opinion, but what if there's a substantial discussion about the theory or the research or the writing of the person -- not about the person per se -- and there's no readily available term like "Freudian psychology" to use instead of their name in a subject index? As I said in an earlier post, in such cases I like to index the person in terms of their work by writing subheadings in headings like "Freud, Sigmund: on religion" "Mandel, Stephanie: as a rafting guide" "Turner, Jack: wilderness writings" but then what if the person is not just one author but two or more authors? Since the point is not to cite each one of them but to index them in terms of their work, how about writing a single entry in bibliographic form like "Caldwell, Charles, & Williams, Frances (1998): on primary education, 123", or "Caldwell, C., & Williams, F. (1998): on primary education, 123", or "Caldwell, C., & Williams (1998): on primary education, 123", or even "Caldwell & Williams (1998): on primary education, 123" and also "Spalding, Gerald, et al. (1995): big bang research, 234", or "Spalding, G., et al. (1995): big bang research, 234", or even "Spalding, et al. (1995): big bang research, 234" since this is how their work is known? Also, I'm wondering about how to distinguish "substantial" discussions of people in terms of their work from mentions of them that amount to a little more than but not a lot more than citations. I don't see any way to handle this problem other than on a case-by-case basis. Anybody have any guidelines besides space and time considerations for doing it? Thanks for any and all feedback, Michael Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 530-272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 23:50:01 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: names in subject indexes I wrote: << But if the person, themselves, not just their theory, is an actual subject in the book, go ahead and put them in both indexes. (My opinion.) >> Michael wrote: I share this opinion, but what if there's a substantial discussion about the theory or the research or the writing of the person -- not about the person per se -- and there's no readily available term like "Freudian psychology" to use instead of their name in a subject index? As I said in an earlier post, in such cases I like to index the person in terms of their work by writing subheadings in headings like "Freud, Sigmund: on religion">> Sure, that's probably what I would do too. I just meant that often I find myself with a subject term. << but then what if the person is not just one author but two or more authors? Since the point is not to cite each one of them but to index them in terms of their work, how about writing a single entry in bibliographic form like "Caldwell, Charles, & Williams, Frances (1998): on primary education, 123">> No, I wouldn't do this. This is a citation and belongs in the name index. If this specific work of theirs is being discussed as a ^subject^, then I would index the title of the work as a subject. Or if the discussion was about them as people, I would put their names in the subject index. And again, if the discussion is really about their theory, then that's what I would index. << Also, I'm wondering about how to distinguish "substantial" discussions of people in terms of their work from mentions of them that amount to a little more than but not a lot more than citations. I don't see any way to handle this problem other than on a case-by-case basis. Anybody have any guidelines besides space and time considerations for doing it?>> Again, this really depends on the type of book. I guess in general it falls into the general category of "how do I tell if this is worth indexing or not?" Is there substantive information there? Would a reader look it up, and if they did, would they find anything? And then you make decisions based on your audience. It's often quite arbitrary, and unless I have space limits I tend to err on the side of putting more in, since you never know what someone might look for. But if it's really a citation, put it in the name index! Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 01:05:12 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barry Koffler Subject: Re: Scientific Names and Parens In-Reply-To: <199805282141.RAA17981@ulster.net> >Should it be: acorn (Quercus sp.) - where parens are in Roman I'd go with this one. Otherwise you'll have nonital sp. inside ital parens. Visually very weird. I think (_Quercus_ sp.) looks better than _(Quercus_ sp._)_ I do a lot of zoological work etc. This is how I'd handle it. When used this way sp. usually means: the thing is an oak, but either we don't know or don't care which oak. If they were talking of all oaks, they'd use spp. (don't confuse with ssp.--which is for subspecies). -Barry oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo barkof@ulster.net Barry Koffler mid-Hudson Valley, NY the FeatherSite at http://www.feathersite.com/ lead me not into temptation . . . I can find it myself. oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 16:48:47 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: Scientific Names and Parens In-Reply-To: <199805292213.PAA11904@pacific.net> Beth wrote: >The reason for using italicized parens is the problem of overlap - the Roman >right parens will overlap the last italicized letter. Chicago suggests that >if one part of the species name is in Roman then the parens should be in >Roman. I'm worried about this and am now unable to talk to the editor until >Monday. My own tendency is to keep the whole name, including sp./spp. >italicized. Oh, well. I'll send the editor an email for now. The problem of overlap is solved by kerning (adding a little extra space between the italic and the paren). --Victoria ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 18:02:06 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Subject: Internet organised by library classifications, e.g. Dewey, UDC, LC Hi, Does anyone know of any good sites that classify information on the Internet according to a library classification scheme, for example Dewey Decimal Classification, UDC and Library of COngress Classification? Glenda =================================== Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Indexing, PC Training, Web Page Authoring http://www.users.bigpond.com/Diagonal Diagonal@bigpond.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 09:53:15 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Updates to ASI Web Site All -- fyi ... the ASI Web site (http://www.asindexing.org) now has a page for Letters from ASI's President. Happy indexing! .... Lori *********************************************************************** Lori Lathrop ---------->INTERNET:76620.456@compuserve.com President - 1998-1999, American Society of Indexers Lathrop Media Services, 7308-C East Independence Blvd., #316 Charlotte, NC 28227 / Phone: 704-531-0021 URL - http://idt.net/~lathro19 (note: that's a "nineteen" at the end) *********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 13:40:14 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Macrex@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Scanning I do a lot of scanning into Macrex and other programs. I have HP scanners and Omnipage Pro (version 8). Setting the scanning options is critical to getting a good file. If you have Microsoft Word or Corel WordPerfect, you should be able to "Aquire text" directly from the word processor. This helps to sort out some of the OCR settings. From Kevin's description, I would infer that he has Omnipage set to retain all formatting by the use of frames. I rarely use this setting because then you have to get rid of all the frames but as I usually want to know which text is italic, bold and so on so I do tell Omnipage to retain formatting and font information. Omnipage normally assigns a different style to each paragraph (very frustrating) so the first step after verifying recognition is to change all of the styles to a single style which I've established for the job. Properly trained I find that Omnipage gets 99+% of the OCR correct, even when working with less than perfect pages. About the only time I have a problem is when working with a poor photocopy or faxed document or when the document contains a lot of characters not found in the normal character set. I have never been happy with the results if I had the frame option turned on. Incidentally, recently I've heard about several projects where the indexer was able to get a bibliography or key word/phrase file from the publisher. These files were then imported into Macrex or converted to Macrex keywords so as to further reduce the typing necessary to complete an index. In a couple instances, the indexer simply used "cut & paste" to add complex terms to an index in progress. Check with the editor -- if you can get a file, you should be able to get the data into your index without the use of a scanner. Gale Rhoades In a message dated 98-05-28 20:31:26 EDT, Kevin Mulrooney wrote: << I just got an HP 5P and I was disappointed by the results with bibliography pages. It uses OmniPage Lite but comes with an offer for OmniPage Pro. All the names and initials read in quite well, perfect in fact as far as I could tell on my test page, but the problem I ran into was there were a lot of weird formatting going on in the Word file. Part of the way down the margins would change; then change back, etc. >> ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 11:38:10 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary S Stephenson Subject: Re: Internet organised by library classifications, e.g. Dewey, UDC, LC In-Reply-To: <000201bd8ba1$3cb91540$205f868b@pentium> I don't know of any general sites that do this, but OCLC's FirstSearch NetFirst database does. Below is a sample record. Perhaps an academic or public library in your area has access to FirstSearch. Hope this helps, Susie Stephenson mss@unixg.ubc.ca DATABASE: NetFirst TITLE: Mental Health Services, Wentworth Area Health Service. (Type: World Wide Web Resource ) LINK: http://www.pnc.com.au/~wamhs/ SUMMARY: Presents Mental Health Services, a division of the Wentworth Area Health Service, which is located on the grounds on Nepean Hospital in Penrith, New South Wales, Australia. Notes that the division provides services for the people in the Blue Mountains, Hawkesbury, and Penrith, New South Wales. Posts contact information via mailing address, telephone and fax numbers, and e-mail. Contains information about events, projects, and research. Links to related Web sites and other resources. CONTACT: wamhs@pnc.com.au (Information) DEWEY INFO: Class: 362.2 Subjects: Social welfare problems & services. LC SUBJECT: Wentworth Area Health Service. Mental Health Services. Mental health services. PUBLISHER: Mental Health Services, Wentworth Area Health Service DB NO.: 228216 DOMAIN: au Australia GEOG. INFO: Class: T2-94 T2-9441 Subject: Australia. Penrith (N.S.W.). On Sat, 30 May 1998, Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne wrote: > Hi, > > Does anyone know of any good sites that classify information on the Internet > according to a library classification scheme, for example Dewey Decimal > Classification, UDC and Library of COngress Classification? > > Glenda > > =================================== > Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne > Indexing, PC Training, Web Page Authoring > http://www.users.bigpond.com/Diagonal > Diagonal@bigpond.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 11:45:33 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: names in subject indexes At 11:50 PM 5/29/98 EDT, Do Mi wrote: > >I wrote: > ><< But if the person, themselves, not just their theory, is an actual subject >in the book, go ahead and put them in both indexes. (My opinion.) >> > >Michael wrote: > > I share this opinion, but what if there's a substantial discussion about the > theory or the research or the writing of the person -- not about the person > per se -- and there's no readily available term like "Freudian psychology" > to use instead of their name in a subject index? > > As I said in an earlier post, in such cases I like to index the person in > terms of their work by writing subheadings in headings like > > "Freud, Sigmund: on religion">> > >Sure, that's probably what I would do too. I just meant that often I find >myself with a subject term. > ><< but then what if the person is not just one author but two or more authors? > Since the point is not to cite each one of them but to index them in terms > of their work, how about writing a single entry in bibliographic form like > > "Caldwell, Charles, & Williams, Frances (1998): on primary education, 123">> > >No, I wouldn't do this. This is a citation and belongs in the name index. If >this specific work of theirs is being discussed as a ^subject^, then I would >index the title of the work as a subject. Or if the discussion was about them >as people, I would put their names in the subject index. And again, if the >discussion is really about their theory, then that's what I would index. > >. . . if it's really a citation, put it in the name index! Thanks very much for your response, Do Mi. It sounds like good advice for doing a subject index in a book that's going to have both a subject index and a name index, but this isn't what I meant to ask about. I'm sorry I didn't make it clear that I was asking about indexing names in a book that's going to have a subject index only, with no citations. What my question boils down to is whether it's a good idea to double-post a discussion of a topic in a book by two or more people featured in the text under a main heading including both or all their names together as a group. It occurs to me that just as "Freud, Sigmund: on religion" is a fine heading, so Caldwell and Williams: on primary education, and Spalding et al.: big bang research might make fine headings too. I've included no date this time because my intention is not to write citations of books but to index a pair and a group of authors -- in the same way they're discussed in the text. (Thus, a discussion of a topic in another book by Caldwell and Williams could be double-posted under the same heading.) Recognizing that whether or how to post this information under the name(s) of the authors not listed up front is another matter for consideration, how does this sound? Michael ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 16:05:59 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Crowley Subject: Re: Internet organised by library classifications, e.g. Dewey, UDC, LC In-Reply-To: <199805301839.NAA24589@relay1.mailsrvcs.net> Hi Indexers! I was just about to recommend the same place, NetFirst . . . or really any of the OCLC products. As a cataloging librarian, all Internet sites that I catalog are on OCLC and I use the Library of Congress classification system -- the classification number is included in these bibliographic records. Julie Moore Crowley Cataloger Stetson University College of Law St. Petersburg, FL 33707 At 11:38 AM 5/30/98 -0700, you wrote: >I don't know of any general sites that do this, but OCLC's FirstSearch >NetFirst database does. Below is a sample record. Perhaps an academic or >public library in your area has access to FirstSearch. > >Hope this helps, > >Susie Stephenson >mss@unixg.ubc.ca > > >DATABASE: NetFirst > >TITLE: Mental Health Services, Wentworth > Area Health Service. (Type: World Wide > Web Resource ) >LINK: http://www.pnc.com.au/~wamhs/ >SUMMARY: Presents Mental Health Services, a division > of the Wentworth Area Health Service, which is located on the > grounds on Nepean Hospital in Penrith, New South Wales, > Australia. Notes that the division provides services for the > people in the Blue Mountains, Hawkesbury, and Penrith, New > South Wales. Posts contact information via mailing address, > telephone and fax numbers, and e-mail. Contains information > about events, projects, and research. Links to related Web > sites and other resources. >CONTACT: wamhs@pnc.com.au (Information) >DEWEY INFO: Class: 362.2 > Subjects: Social welfare problems & > services. >LC SUBJECT: Wentworth Area Health Service. Mental Health > Services. > Mental health services. >PUBLISHER: Mental Health Services, Wentworth Area > Health Service >DB NO.: 228216 >DOMAIN: au Australia >GEOG. INFO: Class: T2-94 T2-9441 > Subject: Australia. Penrith > (N.S.W.). > >On Sat, 30 May 1998, Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Does anyone know of any good sites that classify information on the Internet >> according to a library classification scheme, for example Dewey Decimal >> Classification, UDC and Library of COngress Classification? >> >> Glenda >> >> =================================== >> Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne >> Indexing, PC Training, Web Page Authoring >> http://www.users.bigpond.com/Diagonal >> Diagonal@bigpond.com >> > Julie Moore Crowley Cataloger Stetson University College of Law Library 1401 61st St. S. St. Petersburg, FL 33707 crowley@hermes.law.stetson.edu 813-562-7829 * * Cataloging Rules! * * ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 17:56:18 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeanna Flaherty Subject: How Do I Unsubscribe? Could someone please advise me how to get off this list? I thought one sent an UNSUBSCRIBE command but it has not worked. Thanks mucho!! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 18:45:01 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Scanning Progress report With new motivation based on the posts of Nancy, Carol, and Russell, I decided to wade back into trying to use my scanner for doin the name index for the bruiser Psychology text I'm doing. The tip that (all three and later Gale) made with regards to saving as a text file and opening back up the file to normalize formatting worked like a charm. Here's the final tally: I did one chapter with a longer than average reference section that was 23 text pages long. The total time required was about 3.5 hours. I'm sure I could improve on this a bit. Here's a rough breakdown of the tasks and time for each 1) scanning 7 pages of double column reference pages, stacking them together in PaperPort and OCR'itizing the stack into Word: about 15 minutes. This actually was better than I expected because I thought I was gonna have to scan each column as a separate file but OmniPage (Lite) is apparently pretty intelligent about the columns. I tried setting the file type (under Edit/Preferences in PaperPort) to ascii txt but that produced a mess so I changed it back to Word doc. 2) Eliminating extraneous junk from the pages. About 30 minutes. I fixed a few obvious things at this time, like many capital Ws were read as 'VV and the 2 capital Vs were very hard to distinguish from a W. But mostly I concentrated on deleting the extraneous stuff. Was slowed somewhat by having to refer to the hard copy occasionally to confirm I didn't delete amy important stuff. At this time I deleted all reference dates that were not necessary (turned out none were) and also deleted all references that were identical in terms of names. So for example there may have been 6 Bandura, A. references that I simplified to just 1 (since all were identical in name there was no need to keep the reference dates). At the completion of this step I saved the fairly rough-looking file as text only with linebreaks and reopened it and found it looked great. 3) Proofreading copy: about 45 minutes. There were relatively few mistakes in the names but still the names had to be gone over with a fine tooth comb to make sure they were correct. Combining steps 2 and 3 in one operation will probably be possible when I get more experience, though the rough file before saving as text would have been fairly difficult to proof. At this time I also prepped the terms for the addition of page numbers by adding the page number on which the reference appeared. (They want the page in the reference section on which the reference appears in addition to where it appears in the text) For example "Smith, D." I would make "Smith, D., 217, ". 4) Now finally with all the names correct in a nice clean 4 page Word file, the depressing thing is the real work hasn't even begun yet! Now I was ready to get the pages and start finding the references. Each of the 23 text pages had anywhere from a minimum of about 5 to as many as 40 separate references. This took 1.5 hours which was considerably less than it took by my old method. Using "page down" I was able to hop very quickly back and forth in the Word file and add the page numbers as needed to the appropriate reference. 5) Importing into Cindex (I made a new file I called chap8). In the Word file, I did a search on "., 2" (all the references were on pages starting with 2) and replaced it with .[tab]2 and the file read in with only one messed up record. But I still wasn't done! The final step is to convert all the multi-name references into separate references. Before Cindex 6 with its "add new terms in edit mode" this was a very tedious task IMHO, but now with this feature it goes very fast. For example with a 4 item multi-author term the method is: A) "shift-page down" to make New term. Delete everything but the second name on this new term. B) "shift-page down" on _original_ term again. Delete everything but the third name on this new term. C) "shift-page down" on _original_ term again. Delete everything but the fourth name on this new term. D) finally, delete all names but the first on the _original_ term. Now instead of 1 term there are 4, all with the same page references. This is much simpler than it sounds and took about 15 minutes. The total number of separate names came out to about 400 for the 23 pages of text! Thanks Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 19:32:14 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: names in subject indexes Michael wrote (talking about a subject index in a book with no index--thanks for clarification, Michael): << It occurs to me that just as "Freud, Sigmund: on religion" is a fine heading, so Caldwell and Williams: on primary education, and Spalding et al.: big bang research might make fine headings too. I've included no date this time because my intention is not to write citations of books but to index a pair and a group of authors -- in the same way they're discussed in the text. >> Hmm. It just looks strange to me, Michael. I'd like to hear other opinions. I definitely wouldn't use "et al." in a heading! I'm trying to imagine a case in which I'd feel the need to use "Caldwell and Williams." I'm assuming we're not talking about a one-index book in which citations are being included in the index (often the case in my scholarly books and textbooks without huge numbers of citations), because in that case you would just index the names. In a subject-only index, it would have to be a passage in which Caldwell and Williams, themselves, qualified as a subject and I thought the reader would look them up as a pair. I guess the times I think this might happen are when the author is giving importance to their opinion about the topic. I would still be more likely to index Caldwell/Williams theory, or something. (As you said, we'll assume an alternate acces point of some kind under Williams). Sticking with the citation format seems like indexing the citation and then breaking it down, and it just doesn't seem right. Other opinions, please? Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 14:42:40 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Alan Walker Subject: ISO999 in Australia and New Zealand Simon, I was away in the US, Canada and/or Korea when you posted your enquiries about the adoption of ISO999, but Michael Wyatt's reply covers the situation, as far as I am aware. The information I previously received from Standards Australia was: >The IT19 meeting in Christchurch on 21.11.97 >agreed to clone ISO999 for the Australian market. >The action item from the meeting is that NZ members are to advise >Standards NZ if it should be adopted as a joint standard. There is a >high level agreement between the countries to foster such and they print >the standards with a common AS/NZS number. >I have a projected date of publication if we >have no problems in the public ballot stage of September this year. >Given your contribution to date I don't envisage any disputes at the >time of public ballot. I will keep you posted of any developments. Alan Walker **************************************************************** Alan Walker, Indexer President, Australian Society of Indexers 10 Rockwall Crescent, Potts Point, NSW, Australia 2011 Tel: +61 2 9368 0174 +61 2 9368 0176 Fax: +61 2 9358 5593 Email: alan.walker@s054.aone.net.au **************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 02:29:57 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Lane Subject: Re: Internet organised by library classifications, e.g. Dewey, UDC, LC You could try Cyberstacks (Library of Congress classification) -- http://www.public.iastate.edu/~CYBERSTACKS/ Karen Lane klane@digital.net >Does anyone know of any good sites that classify information on the Internet >according to a library classification scheme, for example Dewey Decimal >Classification, UDC and Library of COngress Classification? > >Glenda > >=================================== >Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne >Indexing, PC Training, Web Page Authoring >http://www.users.bigpond.com/Diagonal >Diagonal@bigpond.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 07:46:54 +0900 Reply-To: stroud@mail.netvigator.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Headley and Adrian Walker-Smith Subject: Re: Spelling out numerals >From Christine Headley Susan Weiss wrote: > > I generally spell out numerals in my index entries. I often find I am > uncertain of how to do this when the numeral has 4 or 5 digits. For > example, what would be the best way to spell out the names of the following > corporations? > > 11095 Viking Inc. (The mailing address is in Tallahassee.) > > 12300 Corp. (The mailing address is in Glendale California.) The trouble is, would you sort them under 'one' or 'eleven/twelve'. If there was only one way to seeing it, I might sort under the written-out number, but if there were several ways, I think they should be sorted numerically at the beginning. Christine Hong Kong ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 20:00:31 +0900 Reply-To: stroud@mail.netvigator.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Headley and Adrian Walker-Smith Subject: Re: Scanning >From Christine Headley I never had any trouble with setting up my HP Scanjet 5p. This was in fact done by the supplier, but he got it because we asked for it and I don't recall any sweat on his part either. (The same cannot be said of my NEC printer which when introduced to Quark threw in the towel. I spent ages talking to Quark tech support, who sorted me out in one call. And this was Hong Kong to Somewhere in the USA.) I now wish the scanner had a paper feed so I could use it more like a photocopier and not have to jump up to change the pages all the time. I believe that the machine the 5p replaced had this feature, but it seemed to be discontinued quite abruptly. Maybe Kevin struck unlucky, or maybe I struck lucky. Best Christine Hong Kong indexer@INETCOM.NET wrote: > > Thanks for the great tips, Carol, Nancy, and Russell. My HP Scanjet 5p (I > left out the scanjet part in my earlier post) uses the Visoneer PaperPort > software with OmniPage Lite. I really like PaperPort, though if it wasn't > for the great HP tech support I never would have gotten the scanner up and > running; they had to walk me through adding all sorts of undocumented lines > in config.sys to get it going. > > Kevin Mulrooney ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 01:20:46 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: names in subject indexes At 07:32 PM 5/30/98 EDT, Do Mi wrote: > >Michael wrote (talking about a subject index in a book with no _name_ index-- >thanks for clarification, Michael): ("_name_" added -- MB) > ><< It occurs to me that just as "Freud, Sigmund: on religion" is a fine >heading, so > > Caldwell and Williams: on primary education, and > Spalding et al.: big bang research > > might make fine headings too. I've included no date this time because my > intention is not to write citations of books but to index a pair and a group > of authors -- in the same way they're discussed in the text. >> > >Hmm. It just looks strange to me, Michael. I'd like to hear other opinions. Do Mi, I really like this response -- straight from the gut. Thanks again for all your comments. Well, I didn't come up with this simple pairing of "Caldwell and Williams" until I wrote my last reply to you. I confess, it is a stretch of mind and sensibility -- at first, "Williams" looks like a key word that should not be buried in the heading -- yet it seems to me that we should be able to index a pair of persons this way (how else could we do it?), especially when they've made the pairing and decided on the order of their names themselves. >I definitely wouldn't use "et al." in a heading! This is a stretch too, but I didn't make it up: it comes straight out of the text (not as part of a citation). Besides serving in verbatim cases, it also serves for cases in which two or more people in addition to the lead person are named, and for cases in which they're just referred to as "colleagues" or "others". Yes, it does remind us of bibliographic style -- a little bit -- but then, so what? Maybe it's another good indexing tool. >I'm trying to imagine a case in >which I'd feel the need to use "Caldwell and Williams." I'm assuming we're not >talking about a one-index book in which citations are being included in the >index (often the case in my scholarly books and textbooks without huge numbers >of citations), because in that case you would just index the names. Right. We're talking about a book that's going to have a subject index only, with no citations. >In a subject-only index, it would have to be a passage in which Caldwell and >Williams, themselves, qualified as a subject and I thought the reader would >look them up as a pair. I guess the times I think this might happen are when >the author is giving importance to their opinion about the topic. This is exactly how I see it. >I would still be more likely to index Caldwell/Williams theory, or something. Me too, if such a term is readily available, but I often find that such a term is not available. >. . . >Sticking with the citation format seems like indexing the citation and then >breaking it down, and it just doesn't seem right. My first suggestions _did_ look like they were in citation format, especially because of the dates I included, but I don't think "Caldwell and Williams" looks like it's in citation format: it's just a pair of names (that are connected with "and" instead of a bibliographic ampersand). Re "Spalding et al.", see again my comments on "et al.", above. >Other opinions, please? Yes, please! Michael ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 12:42:21 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Crowley, J." Subject: Re: Internet organised by library classifications, e.g. Dewey, UDC, LC Hi fellow catalogers! I am on an indexers' listserv as well as AUTOCAT. A question was posted the other day, asking if there was a site that classified Intenet websites by LC, DDC, or UC. (The original question is down at the very bottom.) Since they are overlapping into the realm of catalogers, I thought I would bounce it over to AUTOCAT to see if there are any other responses or ideas. Thanks! Julie Moore Crowley crowley@hermes.law.stetson.edu P.S. The indexers' listserv address is: INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU Hi Indexers! I was just about to recommend the same place, NetFirst . . . or really any of the OCLC products. As a cataloging librarian, all Internet sites that I catalog are on OCLC and I use the Library of Congress classification system -- the classification number is included in these bibliographic records. Julie Moore Crowley Cataloger Stetson University College of Law St. Petersburg, FL 33707 crowley@hermes.law.stetson.edu >At 11:38 AM 5/30/98 -0700, you wrote: >>I don't know of any general sites that do this, but OCLC's FirstSearch >>NetFirst database does. Below is a sample record. Perhaps an academic or >>public library in your area has access to FirstSearch. >> >>Hope this helps, >> >>Susie Stephenson >>mss@unixg.ubc.ca >> >> >>DATABASE: NetFirst >> >>TITLE: Mental Health Services, Wentworth >> Area Health Service. (Type: World Wide >> Web Resource ) >>LINK: http://www.pnc.com.au/~wamhs/ >>SUMMARY: Presents Mental Health Services, a division >> of the Wentworth Area Health Service, which is located on the >> grounds on Nepean Hospital in Penrith, New South Wales, >> Australia. Notes that the division provides services for the >> people in the Blue Mountains, Hawkesbury, and Penrith, New >> South Wales. Posts contact information via mailing address, >> telephone and fax numbers, and e-mail. Contains information >> about events, projects, and research. Links to related Web >> sites and other resources. >>CONTACT: wamhs@pnc.com.au (Information) >>DEWEY INFO: Class: 362.2 >> Subjects: Social welfare problems & >> services. >>LC SUBJECT: Wentworth Area Health Service. Mental Health >> Services. >> Mental health services. >>PUBLISHER: Mental Health Services, Wentworth Area >> Health Service >>DB NO.: 228216 >>DOMAIN: au Australia >>GEOG. INFO: Class: T2-94 T2-9441 >> Subject: Australia. Penrith >> (N.S.W.). >> >>On Sat, 30 May 1998, Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Does anyone know of any good sites that classify information on the >Internet >>> according to a library classification scheme, for example Dewey Decimal >>> Classification, UDC and Library of COngress Classification? >>> >>> Glenda >>> >>> =================================== >>> Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne >>> Indexing, PC Training, Web Page Authoring >>> http://www.users.bigpond.com/Diagonal >>> Diagonal@bigpond.com Julie Moore Crowley Cataloger Stetson University College of Law 1401 61st St. S. St. Petersburg, FL 33707 813-562-7829; FAX: 813-345-8973 crowley@hermes.law.stetson.edu Catalogers: We are your first, last, and only hope for bibliographic access!!! -- Concept from Men In Black. Cataloging Rules!!!