From LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu Sun Oct 18 11:14:08 1998 Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 10:39:43 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB To: Julius Ariail Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9809B" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:49:57 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Horowitz Subject: Thanks For Replys -- Books Gone Due to time constraints like the movers will be here tommorrow, I would like to say thank you to all that responded to my message for the APA and Chicago Style Manual. I just wanted to let you know, I just chose the first messages that arrived. Roberta Horowitz ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 08:45:09 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Sullivan, John" Subject: Re: Weird computer problems Don't rule out the role of mere coincidence in many of these supposedly "unexplainable" disruptions between humans and machines. We tend to forget about the 99 times that things go smoothly and focus on the times that things go awry (in much the same way that we marvel at those instances when fortune tellers or Tarot card readers are right and ignore the many, many more times that they are wrong -- make enough predictions about the future, and you're bound to be right sometimes!). There's simply no scientific basis in the assumption that human beings emit any kind of "force" or "aura" of sufficient strength to affect electrical or mechanical devices. Someone referred to Kirlian photography as "proof" that auras exist; in fact, the results of Kirlian photography can be explained by purely natural phenomena. The physical world is a strange and wondrous place. There are enough scientifically verifiable forces and processes that, logically, we should appeal to paranormal explanations only when all other rational explanations have been been shown to be inadequate. Yet it seems that the paranormal explanation is often more enticing ("I've never seen lights like that in the sky before! It must be flying saucers!"). I think it makes sense to exhaust the natural explanations first; if those fail, then, if you're so inclined, you can pursue supernatural explanations. As always, YMMV. John Sullivan Stratus Computer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 06:15:12 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: Weird computer problems In-Reply-To: <199809081247.FAA03780@pacific.net> John wrote: >There's simply no scientific basis in the assumption that human beings emit >any kind of "force" or "aura" of sufficient strength to affect electrical or >mechanical devices. Someone referred to Kirlian photography as "proof" that >auras exist; in fact, the results of Kirlian photography can be explained by >purely natural phenomena. I wrote about Kirlian photography. I did not say that auras aren't a natural phenomenon... in fact I'm quite sure they are. And, the latest physics research shows that the invisible but very real forces that live beings (not just humans) generate affect the world around us in ways we are actually beginning to understand. Our bodies are run on electricity -- chemically generated electrical impulses -- which begin when the sperm-penetrated egg generates the electric impulse that tells all the unsuccessful sperm that they have to go away now (I just read about this in the book I'm indexing). It seems to me that our electrical impulses almost certainly affect other systems (and the potential seems great in systems, such as computers, that depend on delicate and minute electrical impulses). Victoria vbaker@pacific.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:22:19 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Lane Subject: QUERY: Norton CrashGuard Checking in a little late on this issue because I was behind reading my mail: CrashGuard has saved my skin, more than a few times. My computer crashes regularly (although not so often that I'm ready to call it quits), and more often than not, CrashGuard comes to the rescue, letting me unfreeze or at least get back in so I can save what I was doing in some other application other than the frozen one. So Unfreeze definitely works for me. Before I installed CrashGuard, I had many more problems. I also have an older version of Norton Anti-Virus. It too has been wonderful. I download upgrades to the virus-definition files monthly, and the one time it sprang into action it more than paid for itself. I have also tried McAfee (hated it) and ThunderByte (REALLY hated it), and I used to use F-Prot (liked it fine, but didn't like the DOS interface (which I think they've moved to Windows) and the fact that the updates came only a few times a year. Maybe that's been changed though). So I would cast a 'yes' vote for both Norton CrashGuard and Anti-Virus. I know -- you've already returned it to the store. Just wanted to let you and others know: I've had no problems with these two, and they have actually helped me quite a bit. Karen Lane klane@digital.net >Now that the smoke has cleared and most of the rubble has ceased >falling after installing a whole phalanx of new stuff on my system >-- Win 95, Win NT, Dr.Osborne's Anti-Virus, blah, blah -- I wanted >an opinion from anyone on the effectiveness of Norton's CrashGuard. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 07:40:29 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Manjit Sahai Subject: Indexing Rates for Medical Books Hi everyone, Can someone tell me what is the going rate for indexing medical books? Just this morning, a client has offered me to do an index about a book on Pediatrics. It is a 336 pages Reference Book for Nursing students. I am charging him $3.00/per page. He was very surprised to hear about my rate. He said that his other indexers (with whom he has been dealing for a long time)charge between $2-3/page. His others indexers were booked and could not take this project. So he offered me this project. On top of that, it IS a *rush hour* job and he is hesitating to pay the extra money I demanded. Today it is Tuesday and I still do not have the manuscript in my hands. He is sending the manuscript in 3 batches and wants me to ship the index back to him on Sept 14, next Monday. Whenever I talk about the rush hour charges, *he* says that *most likely* I do not have to read the entire book as he is sending me the list what terms should be indexed in the book. It is a new client and I am in no position to turn it down. So what are the rates for medical books? Thanks a lot. Manjit K. Sahai RAM Indexing Services Sahai-Co@msn.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:49:09 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: Weird computer problems In a message dated 98-09-08 09:18:11 EDT, Victoria wrote: > Our bodies are run on electricity -- > chemically generated electrical impulses.... It seems to me that our electrical > > > impulses almost certainly affect other systems (and the potential seems great in < systems, such as computers, that depend on delicate and minute electrical < > < impulses). Victoria, You are right in that electrical impulses are the means of some nervous system communication. However, I just saw a review in _Smithsonian_ of a book (which I intend to read as this stuff fascinates me) written by Candice Pert. She was instrumental in the beginnings of psychoneuroimmunology. The book's title is _Molecules of Emotion_, and I quote from the review: "...Pert explains: 'For decades, most prople thought of the brain and its extention the central nervous system as an electrical communication system with trillions of miles of intricately crisscrossing wires.' But new research techniques for studying peptides and receptors show that only 2 percent of neuronal communications are electrical, across a synapse. In fact she writes, 'the brain is a bag of hormones.' And those hormones affect not only the brain, but every aspect of body and mind; many memories are stored throughout the body, as changes in the structure of receptors at the cellular level. 'The body,' Pert concludes, 'is the unconscious mind!' " Of course, auras may have as much or more to do with static electricty than internally generated electricity. We had a post in this thread by someone (sorry, I didn't save the post) whose husband generated unusual high static electricity levels. Just thought the above quote fascinating and thought others might be interested. >From one person whose inherited "bag of hormones" is not optimal. Ann Truesdale PS: I am aware that most of my e-mail is being sent twice. I am working on it. Sorry for the inconvenience, meanwhile. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:46:53 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: Indexing Rates for Medical Books Ok, I'm not a freelancer, but I'll chime in anyway. Stick to your guns. Even if he provides a list of terms, you still have to read the whole book to find the terms-- how else does he expect you to find them?! They don't magically leap off of the page, believe me! In fact, I find indexing from a set list of terms more time consuming, not less, because you're not free to just do what you think it best, you have to keep referring to the blasted list. If he already pays $2-3 per page, he shouldn't be surprised at the rate, and if you don't get the manuscript soon (like, by tomorrow morning), I'd jack the rate up even further. I know it's tough drawing a line in the sand with a new client, but you deserve to be fairly compensated for your work. -- Sharon W. > -----Original Message----- > From: Manjit Sahai [SMTP:ramindexing@HOTMAIL.COM] > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 1998 10:40 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Indexing Rates for Medical Books > > Hi everyone, > > Can someone tell me what is the going rate for indexing medical books? > > Just this morning, a client has offered me to do an index about a book > on Pediatrics. It is a 336 pages Reference Book for Nursing students. I > am charging him $3.00/per page. He was very surprised to hear about my > rate. He said that his other indexers (with whom he has been dealing for > a long time)charge between $2-3/page. His others indexers were booked > and could not take this project. So he offered me this project. On top > of that, it IS a *rush hour* job and he is hesitating to pay the extra > money I demanded. > > Today it is Tuesday and I still do not have the manuscript in my hands. > He is sending the manuscript in 3 batches and wants me to ship the index > back to him on Sept 14, next Monday. Whenever I talk about the rush hour > charges, *he* says that *most likely* I do not have to read the entire > book as he is sending me the list what terms should be indexed in the > book. It is a new client and I am in no position to turn it down. > > So what are the rates for medical books? Thanks a lot. > > Manjit K. Sahai > RAM Indexing Services > Sahai-Co@msn.com > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:19:02 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Vanessa Andrews Subject: Re: QUERY: Norton CrashGuard -Reply -Reply <<< Most crash protection systems do not seem to work. If you know of one that does consistently for many people, let me know.>>> When I used First Aid (in Windows 3.1) it worked great for crashes. It actually let me save my work when the system crashed, etc. However, I haven't tried it in Win 95 because I have stayed away from any crash protection software since the Norton fiasco. Vanessa ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:35:28 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Indexing Rates for Medical Books Manjit, Be very, very careful about this job. The shorter the time you have to work on it, the less you can do. Be careful not to get trapped into working on *his* short deadline and then having him be picky and criticize the index as inadequate. It has to be clear to the client that the less time you have, the lighter and less perfect the index can be. To the point where it is impossible to do the job. He/she has to be impressed with the need for an adequate amount of time to read what you have to index. Even if you skim it. The material still has to be read. The client is either deluding himself about the indexer's work, or is giving you a "song and dance", so to speak. Also, about the list of terms -- this is very often a way of placing constraints on your creativity. I think you need to have an understanding that the list has to be nothing more than a guide for you, not *the* definitive list of terms. This type of project is a real pain in the neck. I often run the other way. You might want to also. I know it is difficult for a new indexer to walk away from a potential client, but if the client isn't being reasonable, which is what this sounds like to me, then maybe it is best not to work for the person. Being aggravated and underpaid this way by a client does not have to be part of indexing. Most client relationships are much more pleasant and professional than this. Good luck dealing with it! Janet Perlman JANET PERLMAN Southwest Indexing 610 East Bell Road, Suite 2-157 Phoenix, AZ 85022 phone/fax (602) 569-7302 jperlman@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:06:42 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: Indexing Rates for Medical Books In-Reply-To: <199809081444.KAA06652@mail3.bellsouth.net> First of all, $3.00/page (which I also translate as ~$30/hr) is *not* high at all these days. My rates *start* at that level, for "ordinary" books -- and I'm here in the deep South, where the cost of living is (theoretically) a good deal lower. For a medical book (which I admit I've never done) or any other highly technical volume, I personally would charge at least $4.00/page -- and for a rush job, if it requires me to move my schedule around, I ordinarily add a surcharge of about 20%-25% as well. And, no matter what the client says, you almost certainly *will* have to read the whole book, at least superficially. So don't underprice yourself. Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net ICQ #15741870 http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds |-----Original Message----- |From: Indexer's Discussion Group |[mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Manjit Sahai |Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 1998 9:40 AM |To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L |Subject: Indexing Rates for Medical Books | | |Hi everyone, | |Can someone tell me what is the going rate for indexing medical books? | |Just this morning, a client has offered me to do an index about a book |on Pediatrics. It is a 336 pages Reference Book for Nursing students. I |am charging him $3.00/per page. He was very surprised to hear about my |rate. He said that his other indexers (with whom he has been dealing for |a long time)charge between $2-3/page. His others indexers were booked |and could not take this project. So he offered me this project. On top |of that, it IS a *rush hour* job and he is hesitating to pay the extra |money I demanded. | |Today it is Tuesday and I still do not have the manuscript in my hands. |He is sending the manuscript in 3 batches and wants me to ship the index |back to him on Sept 14, next Monday. Whenever I talk about the rush hour |charges, *he* says that *most likely* I do not have to read the entire |book as he is sending me the list what terms should be indexed in the |book. It is a new client and I am in no position to turn it down. | |So what are the rates for medical books? Thanks a lot. | |Manjit K. Sahai |RAM Indexing Services |Sahai-Co@msn.com | | | |______________________________________________________ |Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com | ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:16:15 -0700 Reply-To: Elinor Lindheimer Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: Re: Indexing Rates for Medical Books Medical and nursing book indexing rates: $3.50 per page and up (usually $4 to $4.50 and more for medical) .65 cents per index line and up (line based on a fixed character length--or per entry, which is more) These are conservative rates from over five years ago!!! I always found that when I got a list of terms from the author, it took longer to do the index. It may be best to ignore the list until you're done, and then review it with your index. Elinor Lindheimer elinorl@mcn.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:31:58 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Anne Taylor Subject: Re: Free - Chicago Manual Style 13, APA Publication Manual At 08:40 AM 9/6/98 -0700, you wrote: >As I am packing up to move and have no need for the following: > > Thec Chicago Manual of Style 13th Edition > American Psychological Association Publication Manual 4th Edition > > >There is no charge, just need to get them in the mail by Wednesday. > > >Roberta Horowitz >rhorowitz@acm.org If these are not yet spoken for, I'd interested in getting them. I will cover postage for them. Anne Anne Taylor University of Missouri-St. Louis ataylor@umsl.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:47:57 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Toni Williams TPG/SG Subject: Re: Weird computer cat hair problems This person needs to get a life and needs to leave the cats alone. What did they ever do to him?! > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Evans [SMTP:infodex@MINDSPRING.COM] > Sent: Sunday, September 06, 1998 5:49 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Weird computer cat hair problems > > Speaking of cats and computers, check out: > > http://www.cat-scan.com/ > > Dick ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:54:43 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Author-generated term lists (long)(was Medical indexing rates) I have to jump in here and say thumbs down to author-generated term lists for indexes. I recently in the last year have had three projects that were essentially author-generated lists, and all of the projects were nightmares because of it. I will only write here in detail about two of them--the third one was a real ROYAL pain and is best left in the dust of history. Project one: -- was the revision/redoing of an index after the three author/editors had the press reprint the book because of perceived problems with the first printing of the proofs. Apparently there were two author-generated versions of the index to the original printing and one of the authors/editors was to redo the index, combining the terms. Well, he got tied up with fieldwork for 10 weeks so he apprently did not do any revisions, unbeknownst to the other 2 authors/editors. (Why didn't they check!?) The press sent me the disk with the first old index on it and the new proofs and my orders were to plug the new page numbers into the old index and not change anything and not add subheads (there wasn't time in two weeks to do all this). (It is VERY hard to find listed terms because as Elinor says, it is hard to find a needle in a haystack, especially since some of these terms were mentioned only once! in the entire book). I found all the terms, though, added some for consistency's sake (some localities, species, and family names were indexed on a page and the same sorts of terms on the same page were totally ignored in the first index--as in long discussions, etc.). Well, the new index to this 500-page, 2-column contributed-volume monstrosity was done by me in two weeks, following the old index as a guideline (I had converted the file to CINDEX .dat format and stripped out the old page numbers, so at least I did not have to retype everything). I sent off the index, glad to hear the end of it. Not! The head author was upset to see that certain terms (subject of the book, actually) were not there. It had been she who had said to only plug in the page numbers and keep the index format as it was, thank you. She said that I had left out terms--which I had not! I just used what was in the old index and actually had added terms where appropriate. So I wrote an e-mail to the press after I double checked the old index both on hardcopy and disk--those terms were never there in the old index in the first place! I simply did not have time because of other projects to go through and add those terms she wanted added, which BTW would have resulted in columns of undifferentiated locators (because the terms were used all over the book.) Moral #1 of this story is to keep all lists and disks, so that you can defend yourself in a case like this. Moral #2: never accept number plugging (plumbing?) jobs, no matter what they pay you! Project two: --was a postmodernist anthropological rendition of a third world country's democratization process and ethnic rights movement. The author had sent along a DETAILED index sans page numbers (of course) and I found it to be EXTREMELY constraining to work with it, especially because of the subheadings. Many terms were again mentioned only once in the entire book--and I do mean mentioned--no discussion. It took me much longer to do the index because of having to be ever conscious of that darn list. The final index was a sort of compromise between the author's list and my own initiative. Moral of this story: Do not accept author term lists because authors expect you to put everything in the index, even if you know that it is basically a padding job to put in in certain terms that are only mentioned and contribute nothing to the reader's knowledge of the subject. Sometimes you can discuss these things with the authors but it has been my experience that no matter what you say, they still want the name of that restaurant where they ate with that famous person to be in the index: "Joe Blow and I ate at McDonalds...discussing blah blah while we choked down Big Macs." You get the idea, even if this is a bogus example. Well, gotta go, but I just wanted to share these experiences and blow off some more steam! A last word on medical indexing prices: it depends on the press (I have had some say they will only pay $2.50 a page for the same sort of stuff that I get $4-6 a page for.) ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen Bertelsen Indexing and Editorial Services (Cookbooks and Food History a Specialty) cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.usit.com/cbertel/ ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:18:38 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Medical indexing rates Forgot to add my take on rates for medical indexing. Despite heavy science background and a gazillion years as an indexer, I find it difficult to command a decent rate for medical indexing. For a subject that requires so much specific knowledge of terminology, the presses want to pay peanuts, overall. I have had to search and search hard, to find those willing to pay "decent" rates. Many want to pay $2/page, which is the lowest base minimum for indexing simple stuff IMHO. And on top of that, I find more "author wants to go over the index" and requests for changes/upgrades in medical indexes than in any other area of indexing. Also, it is an area where it is highly unlikely that a client will call with a manuscript (page proof) ready to send out in its entirety. Most medical indexing projects require you to receive the page proof dribbled in chapter by chapter, and late at that, so that deadlines are a problem too. It is an area fraught with difficulties -- a tough field. OTHO, there is a lot of work in medical indexing out there. And yes, there are "good publishers/presses", and good clients. Depends on your experience. Janet Perlman SOUTHWEST INDEXING ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 15:28:10 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kevin A. Broccoli" Subject: Search engine scanning index This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01BDDB3D.49B923C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anyone have any info on how to point a search engine at the index = of a Web site so that it scans only the main entries and lists the found = main entry on a results page along w/ it's subentries? I have a potential client requesting this, so a fast response would be = very appreciated. Kevin A. Broccoli ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01BDDB3D.49B923C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Does anyone have any info on how to = point a=20 search engine at the index of a Web site so that it scans only the main = entries=20 and lists the found main entry on a results page along w/ it's=20 subentries?
 
I have a potential client requesting = this, so a=20 fast response would be very appreciated.
 
Kevin A. Broccoli
------=_NextPart_000_002A_01BDDB3D.49B923C0-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 15:47:22 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: Revision of an index (was: Author-generated term lists) Cynthia Bertelsen's account of two indexing projects based on author-generated term lists made interesting reading for me, as I am currently grappling with a similar problem: revising an index for a new edition. I was asked to follow the old index and just change the page numbers. I have got about one-fifth of the way through, and am thinking o= f throwing in the towel, as the work is so slow and laborious and I feel I = am not doing a good job. The publishers have kindly offered to give me more time, but I am not happy at the prospect of even more weeks of this drudgery. If I give up, obviously I can't charge for the work I have already done, as they will have to find another indexer. I'm now wondering whether I should have keyed in all the headings first, copied from the earlier index, and added the page numbers as I went along= , instead of creating each heading myself and then checking to see if it wa= s in the old index, and in what form. The first might have been quicker, bu= t I think it's too late to start again, unless I could do what Cynthia did and convert the old index file for use in my program (Macrex in my case),= but I only have hard copy. The old index comes to about 700 lines. I wond= er which way is better. = If others have had this problem, how have you gone about it? Hans Wellisch has a section in his book Indexing from A to Z (2nd edn) on= "revision of indexes". He is very much in favour of producing a totally n= ew index to a new edition of a book, rather than revamping the old one ("having to change most of the locators will be a tedious and time-consuming task"), but I wasn't given a choice - maybe I should have negotiated over this at the start. But Wellisch adds, "It may, however, n= ot always be easy to persuade an editor of the need for a new index, because= that person may have a fallacious notion that a 'slight revision' of the previous index would be a quick and easy job, and would therefore be cheaper." True enough, when I telephoned my editor today to explain my problems, she was perplexed - she had thought it would be a very straightforward job. I still haven't decided what to do about this mess. I have to call her again tomorrow. Any advice would be welcome. Christine ************************************************************* Christine Shuttleworth - Indexing and Editorial Services Flat 1, 25 St Stephen's Avenue, London W12 8JB Tel/Fax (+44 181) 749 8797 email ChristineShuttleworth@compuserve.com ************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:12:19 -0700 Reply-To: penguins@wave.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Breffni Whelan Subject: Japanese oooo I'm about ready to send in an index and can't get in contact with the editor. The book (and the index) contains lots of Japanese words. In Japanese there is the short o and the long o, short and long u. The long forms are usually written in roman lettering as 'o' or 'u' with straight lines over it. These not being standard characters, the o is sometimes written in roman letters as 'oh' or 'oo'. My question is: how would it be sorted? I can think of several possibilities: -- as a separate letter following ozzzz -- as though it were spelled 'oo' (as sometimes it is, though not in this book)) - as though it were spelled 'oh' (likewise) - or just as though it were an ordinary 'o'. Anybody had to deal with this before? Breffni ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 15:35:14 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: Weird computer problems In-Reply-To: <199809081450.HAA14700@pacific.net> Anne wrote, in response to what I'd written: >_Molecules of Emotion_ [Candice Pert], and I quote from the review: > >"...Pert explains: 'For decades, most prople thought of the brain and its >extention the central nervous system as an electrical communication system >with trillions of miles of intricately crisscrossing wires.' But new research >techniques for studying peptides and receptors show that only 2 percent of >neuronal communications are electrical, across a synapse. In fact she writes, >'the brain is a bag of hormones.' And those hormones affect not only the >brain, but every aspect of body and mind; many memories are stored throughout >the body, as changes in the structure of receptors at the cellular level. 'The >body,' Pert concludes, 'is the unconscious mind!' " Ok... I stand corrected. I don't think of the brain as criss-crossed wires, though. I think of it as synapses. Nevertheless, without that 2%, nothing is going to happen in in there ;) I don't really know why some people affect computers badly, but I know it happens. Maybe it's static electricity, who knows. But I do get tired of the "no scientific evidence" argument. Hey... at one time, science showed the earth was flat, and modern physics is really way beyond the level of this conversation in terms of the effects of life forms on their surroundings. In other words... cutting-edge physics is showing that the intentions of our minds do affect the material world, just as the ancient spiritualities teach. --Victoria vbaker@pacific.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 19:27:19 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary Mortensen Subject: Re: Revision of an index (was: Author-generated term lists) I have had good and bad experiences with revising an index. I don't know if any of these experiences will help Christine though. This is long, so I'll make a general comment here. In my opinion, there are two realistic ways of revising an index: following Wellisch's advice to start from scratch; or updating the existing index if (a) you think it is a good one and (b) you have it in a form that can be loaded into your indexing software. My good experience was when the book was the subsequent edition of a textbook I'd indexed 3 years before, and luckily I felt that my previous index did not need many revisions (a great feeling since it was one of my first indexes for pay). This turned out to be a great project, because I got paid my usual page rate and it took less time than writing an index from scratch. The editor sent me a copy of the previous edition of the book, so I checked if any changes had been made to the index I had submitted in 1995 (there were none.) I still had the Macrex .mbk file (an argument for being a packrat!) so I read it in, sorted it into page number order, and sat down with the new proofs, the old edition, and the index printout. I compared each page of the book to the new edition, looking for additions and deletions to the text, and text that had been moved. There were a fair amount of changes, but the editions were similar enough that the amount of work was much less than doing an index from scratch. My not-so-good experience was an assignment to 'fix' an index that the author was not happy with. This relates back to the original topic of author- generated term lists. The author had provided a 3-page list of criticisms of the index that had been done by another indexer. I don't know why that person was not asked to fix this index; possibly the editor had asked and the indexer did not have time. In any case, I did receive the index on hard copy and disk, so again I did not have to re-key anything. After reading the file into Macrex, I printed the index in page number order, and read through the book, looking for the terms the author wanted added. On each page, I looked at what the previous indexer had done, made a few wording changes and added a few conceptual entries that I thought were needed. This project took me almost as long as it would have taken me to produce an index from scratch. I was fortunate that this client pays me by the hour. And this author was an important author to the publishing house. His previous book was a bestseller, which reminds me that one of the entries he wanted added to the index was the title of his previous book. The first indexer had not included it because it was really a passing mention in the first few pages ("...after publishing XXX, I ..." or some such wording) but I didn't quibble, I added the title to the index. Another problem was that the number of pages for the index could not be increased, and the index I received was almost to the length limit. I deleted a few entries that seemed minor, but didn't feel that I could delete very many, since the author had already seen them. I asked the editor if we could change the format from indented to run-on, to fit in as many of the author's entries as possible. She checked with the author, but he hates run-on indexes, and refused to let us change it. So the editor and I came up with this tactic: I submitted an index that was too long, but marked the entries that I thought could be deleted with an asterisk. The editor asked the author to approve these deletions. (We felt that he wanted to be in control ;-) ) I haven't gone through the published index in detail, but I've looked at it in bookstores, and I think that all of my proposed deletions were made. I can't say the final index is a great one - I fixed some inconsistencies and added entries that were useful for the most part, but it's still a mishmash of two people's work. Hope these 'war stories' can be of some use to someone! Mary -- * Mary Mortensen * marymort@aol.com * Lawrence, Kansas, USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 20:17:20 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Revision of an index/Professionalism Christine, As others have said, revision of an index is very tedious, and, frankly, boring. I don't like doing it, and usually refuse this work. I much prefer to create my own index, from scratch. For those of you out there who hire indexers -- it is *not* easier for an indexer to update or revise an index. It is much easier to produce a new index, believe it or not. This all speaks to the point of professionalism -- something that has been alluded to but not addressed yet. An indexer who submits something as his/her own work, wants it to be just that -- *his/her* index, and not an update of an existing work, or a mishmash, to use Mary's term. We have pride in our work. To an indexer, indexing is an intellectual and creative process, and the index is the fruit of that labor. I think many/most of us like to work that way, and do not like thinking of ourselves as a clerk plugging new numbers into an existing index. For what it's worth. The view of indexing as I see it. Janet Perlman SOUTHWEST INDEXING, Phoenix, Arizona, USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 21:40:02 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Revision of an index (long) Christine wrote: <> You have my sympathy, Christine! I refuse to do this kind of job. The way I put it is: "I like to have the previous index as a guide, but I don't do direct revisions. I create my own index to the material." Usually they say fine. I started refusing after one of the worst nightmare jobs I ever worked on (remember this one, Paula?). It was a very cutesy business how-to book; the author had done his own index and loved it, and wanted an exact update. He had indexed every little metaphor and cute example. The worst thing was that we didn't have a set of the original pages (this was also pre-indexing software); we had to look on each page and try to figure out what the author had indexed on that page...which was almost impossible in some cases, since many pages were so fluffy that they had no indexable information. My colleague and I (this was at Twin Oaks Indexing Collective) struggled through it, laughing and groaning alternately, and sent it in. Result? The author liked it so much that he recommended us to his next press, for which we worked for years afterward! Whew. I have several times now created updated indexes to books that ^I^ indexed. If the new edition is almost exactly the same as the old, I load the old index (which of course I've kept on disk) into Macrex, put it into page number order, and compare. It helps to restyle the page numbers to bold before you start updating them, so you can see which ones are the new ones (just discovered this trick!). If there are more than a very few changes, I've found it easier to make a headings index without the page numbers, and add the new page numbers as I go through the book (searching at the end for entries with no page numbers in case there were some that didn't appear in the new edition). It's interesting that every time I've done this I've made substantial changes in the index structure...I must either keep getting better at indexing :-) or changing my angle on things... <> Hmm. If you have a scanner, you can scan the old index into Macrex, put it into page number order (or create a Headings file) and proceed from there. I haven't tried this yet--call tech support for help if you're going to try. Otherwise...I'm not sure what I'd do. I think I'd type in the old index (or hire a typist to do this??). Otherwise you can't be sure you're finding everything the previous indexer indexed on each page. Good luck!!! Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 22:02:25 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Cohen Subject: Re: Revision of an index I think that most of us who have revised problematic indexes have concluded that they aren't worth the pain they inflict on the indexer. I know that I never feel entirely confident of an index I've "fixed," not in the same way that I feel confident about the entries I create myself. A "fixed" index might be better than it was, but is it really solid? I can only vouch for my own entries. (I like Janet's term "mishmash." Such an index is a true hodgepodge.) As for using an old index to generate a revised one, esp. if I've done the first: like Do Mi, I mark the page numbers to indicate which are new and which are old. What I do (in Cindex) is add 5000 to every page number (assuming the book has under 999 pages), then I sort the index in page-sorted order, then I re-index the previous entries, updating the page numbers, then I go back chapter by chapter and add new entries (or sometimes page by page, if the material warrants it--depends on my mood and concentration that day). Before re-sorting the new index, I delete any locators still having a "5000" prefix, check the cross-references (a place notorious for editors to leave blind entries and senseless stuff) meticulously, and then look over the new index for things like places that suddenly need subheadings because there are now many more locators than in the previous edition and vice versa (places that no longer need detailed subheads because there are fewer locators), and so forth. In my experience, it takes much longer to do this final editing on this kind of index than it takes me generally to edit an index, because normally I am modifying my index as it grows, changing and editing as I feel the index warrants. (That's what I love about our software--with the index card method, I would have had to reserve all editing until the end, and I wonder if I'd have liked that process as much.) With a revision, I am working so entirely among the entries rather than among the text pages/topics that I have to edit and revise as a fully separate stage. I think that this is the part about revisions I find most tedious--when you've finished revising the entries, you are much farther from a finished index than you are when you have created the whole index. At least, that is true for the way I work (editing and re-reading my index continually as I add to it). Just another perspective, generally in agreement with the previous postings... Barbara E. Cohen Indianapolis, IN ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 22:11:39 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Robert " <> Subject: Re: Revision of an index/Professionalism To Whom It May Concern: I have found with my experience that revisions don't work well and are not cost effective. I have almost always found I can create an index more quickly if I create it from scratch and forget that an earlier version existed. Author's criticisms are usually unhelpful because the author knows the book too well and cannot consider the book's index from the reader's point of view. I always create an index with the reader in mind -- not the production team. rob ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 20:24:42 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charles Anderson Subject: Re: QUERY: Norton CrashGuard -Reply It is worth noting that, although Norton Anti-virus has had an excellent reputation, some people posting to the Symantec customer site have noted that Symantec seems to have been developing a pattern in releasing new versions late in the year, without adequate Beta testing, supposedly to boost end-of-year profit reports. Anyone who went through the nightmare last year with Norton Utilities 3.0 knows what I am talking about. Just several weeks ago when I visited the user list there will still hundreds of complaints about 3.0 despite online upgrades. This seems to be a dangerous trend with software being put out in unfinished form with the belief that the public will find the bugs, programmers will quickly develop fixes that can be downloaded over the internet. However, the poor soul who has had a hard disk trashed because of bugs is left to suffer. I for one, despite any current reviews, no longer upgrade a Symantec product until at least six months have passed after the new version has come out. Charles Anderson ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 06:33:06 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: Revision of an index I was delighted to find that after sending a message to Index-L with a problem just before going to bed, I found several messages the next morni= ng expressing support and some even suggesting solutions. Very heartfelt thanks to the following: Lillian Ashworth (who wrote to me offlist), Barbara Cohen, Mary Mortensen, Janet Perlman, Robert and Do Mi Stauber. Everyone seems to agree that if possible you should persuade th= e client to let you do an index to a new edition from scratch, rather than = a "mishmash", and in future I will not accept this kind of job unless I am allowed to do so. = Admittedly, Wellisch points out that "revision of an index... is a task that demands experience and a thorough acquaintance with the principles a= nd rules of indexing if it is to yield a satisfactory outcome", and warns th= at such a job should not be offered to novices, as the result is "in most cases a bad index", and "This is one of the reasons why some truly horrib= le and worthless indexes find their way into print, only to exasperate users= of an otherwise useful and well-written book". So if novices can't be trusted to do a revision job, and experienced indexers refuse them, what is the answer? Presumably a concerted campaign= to persuade publishers always to commission a new index (if they can't ge= t the original indexer to produce a revised version from their own disk). Anyway, to get back to my own problem, Lillian and Do Mi both suggested that, despite the fact I have already got some way into the job, I should= type the old index into Macrex - which will put it into page number order= , making it (comparatively) easy to substitute the new locators for the old= as I go through the proofs. So I've rung my editor, who has given me extr= a time, and started doing just that. The mindless typing is a bit tedious b= ut should not take too long, and then I will be halfway there. (Well, maybe not quite.) By the way, I loved Do Mi's description of text without much indexable material as "fluffy". I know exactly what she means! I will definitely us= e that in future. So thanks again to everyone, and wish me luck. Christine S ************************************************************* Christine Shuttleworth - Indexing and Editorial Services Flat 1, 25 St Stephen's Avenue, London W12 8JB Tel/Fax (+44 181) 749 8797 email ChristineShuttleworth@compuserve.com ************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 11:03:54 +0000 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Re: Weird computer problems In-Reply-To: > minds do affect the material world, just as the ancient > spiritualities teach. If it is a question of electric fields, have problems with artificial fabrics etc. been excluded? Perhaps some people are wearing the 'wrong kind of clothes' (an allusion to a famous excuse for late trains in Britain - the 'wrong kind of snow'). Regards _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 08:21:39 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Hudson Subject: REVISION OF AN INDEX Too late to help with Christine's problem, I'm afraid, but my experiences= might be interesting to others. (1) I recently did a revision of an index to a travel guide for a second edition, which was very little changed except for the page numbering. I h= ad to shorten the index by two pages but this wasn't too much of a problem a= s the previous indexer had, I and the editor felt, been over-generous with= detail considering the type of book. The deadline was tight - too much so= to start again from scratch. And the index was full of heavily accented proper names in a language I'm not familiar with, so keying them all in a= ll over again would have been laborious. The publisher sent me the previous index on disk which I converted into MACREX and page number order. I then checked the entries on each page an= d altered page numbers on screen, pruning as I went. I was full of admiration for the previous indexer's accuracy and skill, for instance at= sorting out people - who was the same as who, etc.; after a while I felt = I could accept what they'd put without checking in reference books, which saved a lot of time. = It did take longer than I expected, though not as long as I calculated it= would have taken to start again from scratch. Fortunately the publisher was more concerned about meeting the deadline than keeping to the budget,= so I put in long hours and got it in on time. Yes, I might have done a better index starting from scratch, and I fear one or two errors probably= crept in; but within the time and budget available I think I did a reasonable job. = (2) Some time ago I updated one of my own indexes for the same publisher,= working in the same way. That time it was much easier, as I was reasonab= ly happy with what I'd done first time round and didn't have to shorten. = However, in checking the page numbers I found that a lot in the original index were out by a page or so! Clearly they must have adjusted the layo= ut after I'd submitted my index.... and no-one had noticed as far as I know (except the poor index users presumably)! (3) A few months back I revised another index for a second edition for a different publisher. It was a reprint of a collection of essays with som= e extra ones added, so I had to index the new material and correct the page= numbers for the original essays - very simple, theoretically! This time = I had to retype the original index into MACREX, which was quite useful as I= could adjust entries as I went into my preferred style. But the index turned out to be absolutely appalling! Trivial things included and important ones left out; things on wrong pages; entries with no location references; you name it... It had been done by the author's research assistant or some such person, and it showed. So I had to rework it all thoroughly, and by the time I had finished I might just as well have started from scratch. = The moral is, I think: yes, it's sometimes possible to revise indexes, as= long as they're the work of a good indexer and the text hasn't changed much. But it doesn't save that much time, and needs to be carefully thought out before plunging in. Best wishes to all, ANN HUDSON (Chichester, UK) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 09:01:23 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: Revision of an index/Professionalism At 10:11 PM 9/8/98 -0500, Robert wrote: >To Whom It May Concern: > > Author's criticisms are usually unhelpful because the author knows >the book too well and cannot consider the book's index from the >reader's point of view. I always create an index with the reader in >mind -- not the production team. > > rob > Obviously all of us indexers know this, that we approach the book from a reader's point of view and therefore strive to index each book accordingly. The author is too close to the book and too much of an expert in his/her field, forgetting what it is like to be a tabula rasa, so to speak. The author is not always a good critic of what is a useful index. In an ideal world indexers would only think of the reader; however, the production team/press, not the reader, is paying me and so I DO care about what the production team thinks about my indexes. In fact, in many cases it is the author who is paying me directly--he/she is the customer and I aim to please. You might call this craven behavior, but I call it reality. Our secondary role as indexers is to gently educate the hand that pays us, as well as to serve the reader. My .02. Have a good day. ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen Bertelsen Indexing and Editorial Services (Cookbooks and Food History a Specialty) cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.usit.com/cbertel/ ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 09:03:29 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Sullivan, John" Subject: Re: Weird computer problems I'm much better at lurking than I am at posting -- I always manage to get myself into hot water. Just a few more comments on this topic, though, and then I'll shut up. In my original message I wasn't quibbling over whether auras were natural phenomena -- the point I was trying to make is that there is no hard evidence that auras exist at all. And I certainly wouldn't disagree that some people affect computers badly -- I've seen it myself -- but that doesn't mean that the incredibly weak magnetic field generated by that person (or any other similar force internal to that person) plays any role in the disruption. There are just too many other variables, any one of which could be causing the effects we see. Also, all we have to go on in this matter is anecdotal evidence. Can anyone point me to reports of controlled experiments in which it's been demonstrated that the "intentions" of someone's mind can influence physical objects or events in any way? Victoria wrote: <<...modern physics is really way beyond the level of this conversation in terms of the effects of life forms on their surroundings.>> No need to talk down to me, Victoria. I'm as hip as the next guy (or gal) to "modern" and "cutting edge" physics. I'm pretty open minded, but I continue to draw a line between spirituality and science. I can say no more. John Sullivan Stratus Computer ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 06:16:53 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: medication order Please appreciate that my ergonomic keyboard is in the shop and i am struggling with a loaner. My current project has lots of chemotherapy drugs. My question is how to decide about sort order with numeral prefixes. Examples 5-aspirin 5-ibuprofen Should these (phony examples) be ordered as if the 5 were spelled out or by "a" and "i"? Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 06:26:38 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: Revision of an index/Professionalism In-Reply-To: <199809091307.GAA23809@decibel.electriciti.com> > >In an ideal world indexers would only think of the reader; My priority is certainly my take on potential readers' needs. But the names of the authors (or editors) and publishers go on the book. At the least--I seek to consider an author's "vision" or whatever. Some of these folks know their audience better than I do. To me, the best work is always mutual and collaborative. When I let my ego run wild and insist on *my* way. I have been punished by getting it. Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 09:42:17 -0400 Reply-To: editink@istar.ca Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Heather Ebbs Organization: Editor's Ink Subject: Re: medication order Sort these drugs as if the number was not there. E.g., 5-fluorouracil goes under f. Heather Ebbs ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 09:49:28 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: REVISION OF AN INDEX I feel the need to jump in here with my two cents (of course!). As a code indexer-- part of a group who indexes primarily law codes and other legal material-- I rarely have the luxury of creating an index from scratch. For new editions and, of course, new products we do, but virtually all of my work (I should say "our" work-- we have a staff) is updating existing indexes. This is necessary, of course, because of the size of our indexes (average about 2,000 pages-- two volumes, usually double column-- but as big as 4,000 pages, 4 volumes, triple column, updated annually, bi-annually or quarterly, depending on the code). Some of the points that have been made are absolutely correct: Updating is not necessarily a bad thing if you have a good index to begin with and good copy to work from (that is, in something approaching final order). That isn't usually a problem here with our long-term indexes (those that have been done here, in-house, by our staff for several years). However, it is terribly frustrating to try to update a bad index, and it's usually apparent fairly early in the process if an index is a bad one. Our code phrase around her is, "You can't polish [manure]" (thanks to one of our senior indexers :-) ), so sometimes we have to suck up and do the best we can in order to meet time and budget limits. Sometimes we just hold our noses and turn it in! You do what you can. One point, though: I think it's educational to occasionally update and/or review someone else's work. Our code indexes are the amalgamation of as many as a dozen different indexer's work, and we quickly learn the difference between changes and edits that are necessary for clarity or correctness and those that merely represent stylistic differences. Just as you can learn a lot about writing from reading other authors, you can learn a lot about indexing from working with indexes created by other indexers. Frankly, I don't see any other way to handle an update without having the original index sorted into page number order. Anything else would be too confusing and time consuming, and I don't think I'm giving away company secrets by revealing that that's how we handle it. :-) Incidentally, we spend a lot of time convincing other groups that it really is easier and faster for us to handle new material (and create new indexes or index entries) than to deal with amended stuff. They never believe us, but it is true! -- Sharon W. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 09:08:17 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Robert " <> Subject: Re: Revision of an index/Professionalism Cynthia: You are right about satisfying the production team, but I have found that if I satisfy the reader, the production team is usually also satisfied (being readers themselves). Most authors are not able to do indices because they feel that an index is merely a lengthy table of contents. I have discovered that if a book is organized well, the index will, in turn, highlight the innate or organic design of the book. Most books, however, do not reach this ideal. rob ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 09:10:43 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Robert " <> Subject: Re: medication order Pam: I would index the numerical drugs in the number section of the index. Cindex, for instance, allows for numerical indexing under Tools, Sort. rob P.S.: If you think the reader will be looking for the drug under its name and not the number, then just cross-reference it, e.g., Aspirin, see 5-aspirin. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:06:45 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David K. Ream" Subject: Re: medication order Numbers and even some letters that appear such as d-, dl-, p-, O-, N- either at the beginning of chemical names or in the middle, are positional notations and normally are not sorted on except to differentiate between two chemicals. For instance, though this may not make chemical sense: triptophan dl-triptophan l-triptophan or 3-niacin 5-niacin nitroglycerine -----Original Message----- From: Pam Rider To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Wednesday, September 09, 1998 9:46 AM Subject: medication order >Please appreciate that my ergonomic keyboard is in the shop and i am >struggling with a loaner. > >My current project has lots of chemotherapy drugs. My question is how to >decide about sort order with numeral prefixes. > >Examples > >5-aspirin >5-ibuprofen > >Should these (phony examples) be ordered as if the 5 were spelled out or by >"a" and "i"? >Pam Rider >Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth >prider@electriciti.com >prider@tsktsk.com > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 11:04:29 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: medication order Pam, Ignore the numbers in alphabetization. Dave Ream's answer was on the mark -- in chemistry notation, such numericals or prefixes are ignored in alphabetization, as are D(sm cap -- or dextro-), L(sm cap -- or levo-), p(ital -- or para-), o(ital -- or ortho-), m(ital -- or meta-). Janet Perlman SOUTHWEST INDEXING ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 02:31:14 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Japanese oooo In-Reply-To: <199809090406.XAA20068@mixcom.mixcom.com> >In Japanese there is the short o and the long o, short and long u. >The long forms are usually written in roman lettering as 'o' or 'u' with >straight lines over it. These not being standard characters, the o is >sometimes written in roman letters as 'oh' or 'oo'. My question is: how >would it be sorted? That line over the o or the u is a macron. Like any other diacritic, it doesn't really change the letter, just its pronunciation. So, as with an e with an accent mark over it, the macron shouldn't affect the sorting at all (i.e., you would ignore it). If you're using indexing software and can't produce a macron, then you have to establish a code for the "o with macron" and the "u with macron" and force the sort to ignore the coding. For example, if you use a "@" to stand for the "o with macron," and you're using Cindex, your entry might look like this (I'm making up the example): Kur<@>{o}sawa What does this do? It ignores the @ in sorting but *doesn't* ignore the o. OTOH, it prints the @ but *doesn't* print the o. Then you let the editor know, in your cover letter, that the typesetter should replace @ with an o with a macron. Of course, you'd want to create an abbreviation in Cindex for the "<@>{o}" string, so you don't have to type it everywhere you want the macron. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:00:47 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bonnie Taylor Subject: Re: REVISION OF AN INDEX << One point, though: I think it's educational to occasionally update and/or review someone else's work. . . . Just as you can learn a lot about writing from reading other authors, you can learn a lot about indexing from working with indexes created by other indexers. >> I have to agree with Sharon on this point. Some of my earliest indexing assignments were to update indexes for new editions of law books. I found it to be wonderful practice to read the new text and think to myself, "Now how did the indexer treat this sort of material the last time around?" If it was a totally new topic that had not been addressed in the previous edition, then I got to make my own entries. But for the old stuff, my responsibility was to make sure that the new page references got plugged into all of the proper old entries. Very educational! Bonnie Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:45:17 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Hudson Subject: Re: REVISION OF AN INDEX Thanks, Sharon and Bonnie, for reminding me - the value of updating a goo= d indexer's work as a learning experience was something I had meant to mention in my earlier posting about indexing second editions. I picked u= p some useful ideas from that good travel book index. All indexers - both new trainees and experienced - can learn from studying other people's wor= k. It's very dangerous to plod on in isolation. ANN HUDSON (Chichester, UK) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 13:13:22 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Subject: Employemnt opportunity Please respond to Mr. Neufeld, not to the list. CATALOGERS/INDEXERS NEEDED Harpers Magazine is preparing a cumulative index/database for Harpers covering the full run of the magazine, which began publication in 1850. Cataloger/indexers are needed who meet the following criteria: Reside in the New York City area. Have experience using Library of Congress Subject Headings. Have a PC that is 486/66 or better with 16 megs of RAM, Windows 95, a modem and an internet account. Can commit to working 20 hours or more per week over the course of the project (two to three years) Pay: $25/hour. Send letter/resume to the project manager: Len Neufeld 208 Berkeley Place, Brooklyn, NY 11217. Tel 718636-9411 Fax 718 6368511 email LenNeufeld@aol.com This add taken from Information Outlook, the monthly magazine of the Special Libraries Association. Vol 2, No. 9. September 1998 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 13:27:50 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Windows 98 follow-up Eureka! There's another Win98 report on CNN's tech page today which has links to the previous stories and many others. Follow those Related Stories links for a wealth of info (each link will provide you with more links to other related stories). Here's today's story ("Windows 98 glitches are driving consumers batty." September 9, 1998) http://cnn.com/TECH/computing/9809/09/winglitches.idg/index.html This is the first article that I saw on Win98 rewriting the .DLL files: http://cnn.com/TECH/computing/9807/14/livingston.idg/index.html How to fix those .DLL's: http://cnn.com/TECH/computing/9807/20/livingston.idg/ Hope this helps. I'd highly recommend surfing this site if anyone is seriously considering upgrading to Win98. It provides a good heads-up to possible problems that you may run into. -- Sharon W. Charlottesville, VA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:10:01 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM Subject: manuscript versus set pages I know this has come up before, but I'm preparing a quick estimate, and I can't remember the rule of thumb for conversion of manuscript to set pages. Is it about 2 to 1? Thanks Leslie Frank Words Indexing and Editing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:24:35 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Rumper, Gail J" Subject: an update and a thank you (rather long) Hello everyone, I don't know if many of you will remember me. A few months ago I posted an appeal for advice and suggestions concerning my first indexing job. I wanted to update all of you on how it has turned out because you have been so helpful to me and your advice, knowledge, and experience have been invaluable and for that I am extremely grateful. With absolutely no prior experience or training and even though this first indexing experience (a summary of which follows) has not turned out to be a good one, I have learned a great deal. And, I am happy to say, it has not turned me away from pursuing my goal of becoming a professional indexer. If anything, I am more determined. After getting advice about what to expect in terms of the editing process and such, and after another indexer very graciously helped me put together a questionaire for the author and the editor, I tried repeatedly to schedule a time to meet with the author to discuss the fact that she wanted me to index without proofs. I finally got her on the phone and I told her we needed to meet because it wouldn't be as easy as she thought to change page numbers once we got the page proofs. That's when she dropped the bomb: According to her, indexing the ms. was to be strictly for "practice". She would look over my work and decide then whether or not she wanted me to do her index. She could decide that my work wouldn't be good enough and have someone else do the job. This is completely contrary to my understanding of our original agreement in which I would do her index for a nominal fee, and I told her so as tactfully as I could. She responded that she felt it would be better to do it this way, her main concern being that she have a good index for her book. It occurs to me that if I wanted practice, I could have been spending all that time finishing the practice indexes I'd started using books with existing indexes and comparing them to my own. It seems to me that by comparing the two, I would get "feedback" that is just as good as any she could provide. One more thing: She told me initially that the page proofs would be in in about two months (this was back in May I think). Later she told me by the end of September. When I talked to her last she said "Well, to be honest it probably won't be until December." I decided then that she was yanking my chain. I have often wondered if she intended to let me "practice" and then inform me that my work is unsatisfactory, all the while intending to do the index herself using *my* work. Perhaps this is an unfair assessment of her intentions but I can't think of any other explanation for her behavior. To make a long story even longer, I let her know that I would not be able to continue to work with her given the circumstances and why and that she would be better off finding someone else to do her index. This has been all been very frustrating but, as I said, it has taught me quite a bit so it hasn't been a total waste. Thanks again to all and I'll let you know about my *next* indexing job (the one I'll get after I have taken a course, done some more practice indexes, done a few more practice indexes, taken another course, picked a few more brains, practiced some more, and... well you get the idea). :-D Until then I will continue to appreciate your collective wisdom on Index-l. Warm regards, Gail -- rumpergj@jmu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:52:10 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Celia McCoy Subject: Re: an update and a thank you (rather long) In-Reply-To: <199809091826.OAA28505@infobahn.icubed.com> Gail, With your kind of determination, you're sure to go far! Celia ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 15:14:22 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: an update and a thank you (rather long) Sorry to hear you had such a bad experience, but I suspect that your instincts were correct. Always trust your instincts is my motto. You're better off without. If you're still in Harrisonburg (and I assume that you are by your email address), you still have the option of shopping around your newly-acquired skills to local college and university professors-- frequently a good source. You've got JMU, Eastern Mennonite, Washington & Lee, VMI and UVA all within reasonable commuting, so good luck! If I hear of anyone in need of an indexer here on this side of the mountain, I'll let you know. :-) If this professor approaches you again, make sure that you point out the intellectual property aspects of even a "sample" index that you create for her! Maybe she'll think twice about pirating! -- Sharon W. Charlottesville, VA > -----Original Message----- > From: Rumper, Gail J [SMTP:rumpergj@JMU.EDU] > Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 1998 3:25 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: an update and a thank you (rather long) > > Hello everyone, > > I don't know if many of you will remember me. A few months > ago I posted an appeal for advice and suggestions > concerning my first indexing job. I wanted to update all > of you on how it has turned out because you have been so > helpful to me and your advice, knowledge, and experience > have been invaluable and for that I am extremely grateful. > > With absolutely no prior experience or training and > even though this first indexing experience (a summary of > which follows) has not turned out to be a good one, I have > learned a great deal. And, I am happy to say, it has not > turned me away from pursuing my goal of becoming a > professional indexer. If anything, I am more determined. > > After getting advice about what to expect in terms of the > editing process and such, and after another indexer very > graciously helped me put together a questionaire for the > author and the editor, I tried repeatedly to schedule a > time to meet with the author to discuss the fact that she > wanted me to index without proofs. I finally got her on > the phone and I told her we needed to meet because it > wouldn't be as easy as she thought to change page numbers > once we got the page proofs. That's when she dropped the > bomb: According to her, indexing the ms. was to be > strictly for "practice". She would look over my work and > decide then whether or not she wanted me to do her index. > She could decide that my work wouldn't be good enough and > have someone else do the job. This is completely contrary > to my understanding of our original agreement in which I > would do her index for a nominal fee, and I told her so as > tactfully as I could. She responded that she felt it would > be better to do it this way, her main concern being that > she have a good index for her book. > > It occurs to me that if I wanted practice, I could have > been spending all that time finishing the practice indexes > I'd started using books with existing indexes and comparing > them to my own. It seems to me that by comparing the two, > I would get "feedback" that is just as good as any she > could provide. > > One more thing: She told me initially that the page > proofs would be in in about two months (this was back in > May I think). Later she told me by the end of September. > When I talked to her last she said "Well, to be honest it > probably won't be until December." I decided then that she > was yanking my chain. I have often wondered if she > intended to let me "practice" and then inform me that my > work is unsatisfactory, all the while intending to do the > index herself using *my* work. Perhaps this is an unfair > assessment of her intentions but I can't think of any other > explanation for her behavior. > > To make a long story even longer, I let her know that I > would not be able to continue to work with her given the > circumstances and why and that she would be better off > finding someone else to do her index. > > This has been all been very frustrating but, as I said, it > has taught me quite a bit so it hasn't been a total waste. > Thanks again to all and I'll let you know about my *next* > indexing job (the one I'll get after I have taken a > course, done some more practice indexes, done a few more > practice indexes, taken another course, picked a few more > brains, practiced some more, and... well you get the > idea). :-D Until then I will continue to appreciate your > collective wisdom on Index-l. > > Warm regards, > Gail > > -- > rumpergj@jmu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 15:42:41 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: EMickiT@AOL.COM Subject: Re: medication order In a message dated 98-09-09 10:28:27 EDT, you write: << 5-aspirin 5-ibuprofen Should these (phony examples) be ordered as if the 5 were spelled out or by "a" and "i"? >> Having worked in a medical research lab for 15 years, I would say absolutely sort by the alphabet. When chemists want to look up the name of the chemical, they look for the main compound. The numbers, while technically part of the name, just indicate variation in the main compound. Be aware that some chemical/biochemical names may be tricky for a non-chemist. For example, alpha-1-antitrypsin. To index that you need to be aware that people who work with that substance expect to find it under "alpha" and that, while it might seem logical to sort it under "trypsin" or "antitrypsin," no one who knows what it is would ever look there. You would also need to know that half of the researchers working on it call it alpha-1-protease inhibitor. One might post it under both of its names and under the category "protease inhibitors." Just one of the problems with medical/chemical names in indexing! There are references that can tell you how to sort the more complex chemical names, but I have packed a lot of my books for a move, so I can't give you the exact names. Cynthia Bertelsen wrote an excellent article on reference books for medicine. Check through some old issues of Key Words. I edited a book that has web sites for locating chemical companies. They may have product lists on the web. Chemical/pharmaceutical catalogs are usually arranged in a format the professionals prefer. http://pubs.acs.org This site lists hundreds of companies. http://online-info/health-care/? Yes, the "?" is part of the URL. It lists over 30,000 vendors of medical products. http://www.medsitenavagator.com has links to pharmaceutical companies. http://pharminfo.com same http://www.pharmweb.net same Just a short list, but probably enough. I'm sure other indexers will send you URLs and book titles that are even more specific. Erin (Micki) Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 15:16:59 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Ooops! I meant to send that reply just to Gail, not to the list. Oh, well. Sorry! -- Sharon W. Charlottesville, VA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:04:39 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Ooops! In-Reply-To: <199809091959.PAA20223@camel16.mindspring.com> At 03:16 PM 9/9/98 -0400, you wrote: >I meant to send that reply just to Gail, not to the list. Oh, well. >Sorry! FWIW, 99% of such misdirected missives go right by me and I never realize they have been misdirected until I see the apology. Maybe the best strategy is to just not mention it. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:07:53 -0400 Reply-To: editink@istar.ca Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Heather Ebbs Organization: Editor's Ink Subject: Re: manuscript versus set pages LLFEdServ@AOL.COM wrote: > > I know this has come up before, but I'm preparing a quick estimate, and I > can't remember the rule of thumb for conversion of manuscript to set pages. Is > it about 2 to 1? No, multiply by 0.6, e.g., 100 ms pages = 60 typeset pages. All the usual caveats about what constitutes an ms page and typeset page. This works for 240-50 wd ms pages and 6x9" trade nonfiction. Heather Ebbs ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:21:01 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Cohen Subject: Cautionary tales Gail, Thanks for sharing your "cautionary tale" about the possible index "pirate." It never gets any easier to walk away from a possible paycheck, but trusting your instincts is never wrong. In cases like this, it is better to err on the side of caution. (Too many new indexers take these jobs and wonder why they have trouble with the index or author later--one shouldn't let enthusiasm for that first job cloud one's judgment.) There are times that I wish I'd listened to that little voice and other times when I apparently worried for nothing, but by refusing to "practice" for this author, you are keeping your schedule open for a real job. You wouldn't want to get embroiled in an impossible task and have to refuse a good job because of it. (Anyway, that is the mantra I practice whenever these situations arise.) (I tell myself I would have hated the project anyway, because invariably the author has misrepresented the work involved. Oh, if only I had a dollar for every author who told me his or her book was "straightforward" despite my nagging sense that it is otherwise.) Would you be willing to post a description of the project so that the rest of us will know to stay away from it, should this author call us? (I don't recall the details from your original post.) You don't have to name the author, but I would hate to think that someone else might fall into her trap unawares... an author who got nowhere with you might change tactics on the next try. In other words, the rest of us might not immediately recognize it as the same problem. Just a thought. Barbara E. Cohen Indianapolis, IN ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:50:23 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: medication/chemical name order For a really thorough, and from-the-horse's-mouth, treatment of chemical names, see chapter 7 ("Names and Numbers for Chemical Compounds") in the American Chemical Society's The ACS Style Guide: A Manual for Authors and Editors (Janet S. Dodd, ed. 2nd ed., 1997). This resource also goes into the details of italics and other aspects of chemical names. Wellisch discusses chemical names briefly in two pages (p. 20-21) in his Indexing from A to Z (2nd ed.). Again, I cannot stress enough the importance of indexers having basic print reference resources on hand. Some pertinent Internet resources are available, true, but there is no guarantee that you will find them quickly and if you do find them, you may not be able to access them without paying a fee or being part of an academic community. ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen Bertelsen Indexing and Editorial Services (Cookbooks and Food History a Specialty) cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.usit.com/cbertel/ ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:04:10 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary Mortensen Subject: ASI Kansas-Missouri Group meeting announcements AMERICAN SOCIETY OF INDEXERS Kansas-Missouri Group The Kansas-Missouri group will hold two meetings in October, to allow more members in our area to attend. Guests are also welcome. KANSAS Meeting ============= Emporia Public Library Saturday, October 10, 1998 110 E. 6th Ave. 1:00 - 4:00 pm Emporia, Kansas Topics: - Wilson Award-winning indexes - Seattle annual conference report - Business meeting and discussion of current ASI issues ST. LOUIS Meeting ============== Buder Branch Library Saturday, October 17, 1998 4401 S. Hampton Ave. 1:00 - 4:00 pm St. Louis, Missouri Topics: - Web site design: Craig Brown and Anne Taylor - Seattle annual conference report - Business meeting and discussion of current ASI issues For more information and directions, please contact me. Mary -- * Mary Mortensen * marymort@aol.com * Lawrence, Kansas, USA * 785-841-3631 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:52:57 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: Repagination again Just a postscript on the repagination question. In The Indexer, Vol. 17, no. 2, October 1990, there is an article by Geraldine Beare on repaginating the index to Thomas Carlyle's French Revolution. After listi= ng all the problems she encountered, Geraldine bravely maintains that "I enjoyed it in the end, though not at first". She does convince us that "skill and a certain amount of creativity" were needed for this job, but = I for one shuddered at her description of the task. In a follow-up article in Vol. 18, no. 1, April 1992, Hazel Bell reports that Geraldine "later despaired altogether of the practice in the SI Newsletter" (winter 1991). = "Since [repaginating Carlyle] I have repaginated a number of large, reset= editions of well-known works, and I am now firmly of the opinion that repagination should not be allowed. All reset editions should have new indexes. It takes much longer to repaginate..." = Hazel adds that the only conditions under which she herself has found it = to be "not only quicker but a positively joyous task" were when the original= index was her own work, and she had it on disk (as with her index to Jere= my Wilson's biography of Lawrence of Arabia). = I rest my case. Christine S ************************************************************* Christine Shuttleworth - Indexing and Editorial Services Flat 1, 25 St Stephen's Avenue, London W12 8JB Tel/Fax (+44 181) 749 8797 email ChristineShuttleworth@compuserve.com ************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 08:15:39 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dwight Walker Organization: W W Walker Web Development Subject: AusSI Web indexing prize 1998 judges As an update to the last post, the judges for the 1998 AusSI Web indexing prize are: Maureen Henninger, Coordinator of Continuing Education, School of Information, Library and Archive Studies, University of New South Wales, Sydney, Australia (http://www.silas.unsw.edu.au/) Dwight Walker, Director, WWWalker Web Development, Sydney, Australia (http://www.wwwalker.com.au/) Information and entries about the prize are at: http://www.speakeasy.org/~dwight/aussiwebprize98.html Cheers Dwight Coordinator AusSI Web Indexing Prize 1998 -- -------------------------------------------------------- Dwight Walker WWWalker Web Development, PO Box 288, Wentworthville, Sydney, 2145, Australia http://www.wwwalker.com.au tel +61-2-98960286, mob +61-412-405727, fax +61-2-97772058 ICQ No. 4631678, handle: wwwalker (www.mirabilis.com) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 18:00:36 -0500 Reply-To: Betsy Ann Schoeller Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Betsy Ann Schoeller Subject: Re: an update and a thank you (rather long) In-Reply-To: <199809091823.NAA32163@batch3.csd.uwm.edu> Thank goodness there are still authors who understand the value of a *quality* index, and are willing to insist upon one for their work!!!! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 19:29:37 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Deborah Shaw Subject: New York bias In-Reply-To: <199809091719.NAA31242@camel10.mindspring.com> I qualify for this on every point except one and would find it a fascinating project. _Harper's_ even fits my academic background, which is ethnology with a focus on women's roles. The one point on which I do not qualify is that I do not live in New York City. I live in North Carolina. Why do New York editors insist on this? I have a modem and an internet account. I have a library within six miles that I know carries _Harper's_ back to volume 101, and I didn't even check Duke, only eight miles away. Is this geographical discrimination? I've run into this before. There's another set of books that I really want to index, and that the author wants me to index, and that I am the best person to index, but the New York publisher has a New York bias and is being balky. How do we answer this? Cheers, Deborah At 01:13 PM 09-09-98 -0400, you wrote: >Please respond to Mr. Neufeld, not to the list. > >CATALOGERS/INDEXERS NEEDED > >Harpers Magazine is preparing a cumulative index/database for Harpers >covering the full run of the magazine, which began publication in 1850. >Cataloger/indexers are needed who meet the following criteria: Reside in >the New York City area. Have experience using Library of Congress Subject >Headings. Have a PC that is 486/66 or better with 16 megs of RAM, >Windows 95, a modem and an internet account. Can commit to working 20 >hours or more per week over the course of the project (two to three >years) Pay: $25/hour. Send letter/resume to the project manager: Len >Neufeld 208 Berkeley Place, Brooklyn, NY 11217. Tel 718 636-9411 Fax 718 >636-8511 email LenNeufeld@aol.com > >This ad taken from Information Outlook, the monthly magazine of the >Special Libraries Association. Vol 2, No. 9. September 1998 > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 19:40:29 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Tobiah R Waldron Subject: software Does anyone know of indexing software that integrates with a book on disc so that you can prepare the index entirely on screen,marking all entries on screen as well, with no printing needed until the final stages? _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:55:39 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Manjit Sahai Subject: Medical Indexing Hi everyone, I owe a big thank you to Janet Pearlman, Elinor Lindheimer, Cynthia Bertelsen, Micheal K. Smith and all others (I can't even remember some names) for all the helpful suggestions regarding revision of the index as well as the rates for medical indexing. You guys are so wonderful. I know that I can always count on Index-L folks. Thanks again. Manjit K. Sahai Sahai-Co@msn.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:58:13 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Manjit Sahai Subject: Marginalia Titles Hi everyone, Can someone tell me what are "marginalia titles" ? I have never heard of such a term. Thanks a lot. Manjit K. Sahai Sahai-Co@msn.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:53:02 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Vanessa Andrews Subject: Re: Marginalia Titles According to my dictionary, "marginalia" is a plural noun that means "marginal notes". So, I would guess "marginalia titles" to be those headings in the margin, versus those above the text (or it could just be "marginal note titles" - I may be stretching it). In all my years of writing, classes, etc., I have never heard this term either. >>> Manjit Sahai 09/09/98 07:58PM >>> Hi everyone, Can someone tell me what are "marginalia titles" ? I have never heard of such a term. Thanks a lot. Manjit K. Sahai Sahai-Co@msn.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:42:43 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Deborah Shaw Subject: Re: New York bias In-Reply-To: <199809102111.RAA08475@camel10.mindspring.com> No way! I once had an allergic reaction to a New York accent. After a summer in the UK =97 six weeks at Oxford where there were a few other Americans followed by six weeks on a dig where I was the only one =97 I was seated on the plane home next to two stereotypical American tourists from Brooklyn. The man whined (whinged) for the entire flight and every word grated, like fingernails on a blackboard. Okay, maybe the allergic reaction was to his cigar. This was before smoking was banned on flights. Still, the adjustment to being back in the US took longer than the adjustment to being in the UK at the beginning of the summer, and I wonder if I might have avoided, or at least ameliorated, the culture shock by flying directly back to Raleigh=97Durham. There was no direct flight, alas, and part of my problem is that I didn't want to come home at all.=20 I thanked Lillian privately for her tale. After hearing it, I doubt I'll be pursuing this particular job.=20 Cheers, Deborah At 05:07 PM 10-09-98 -0400, Dave Talcott wrote: >But do you have a Noo Yawk accent? > >Dave T. > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:51:54 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Proof rack John Sampson wrote: << I have not seen any discussion here of ways of coping with proofs physically. How do other subscribers tackle proofs in this physical sense? >> I designed a rack for myself and had it built. It's a slanted board with a five-inch-wide edge (which slants at right angles to the board), wide enough for two piles of proofs. My monitor is up on a wooden shelf (at ergonomic height), and the proofs sit between it and the keyboard, so I don't have to move my head at all to look back and forth, just my eyes. I started out (in the dining-room table days) with the proofs on a small table to my left, and damaged my neck--I strongly recommend that people don't put the proofs to the side. Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:46:38 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: Weird computer problems In-Reply-To: <199809091304.GAA25409@pacific.net> John wrote, quoting me: ><<...modern physics is really way beyond the level of this conversation in >terms >of the effects of life forms on their surroundings.>> > >No need to talk down to me, Victoria. I'm as hip as the next guy (or gal) to >"modern" and "cutting edge" physics. I'm pretty open minded, but I continue >to draw a line between spirituality and science. I wasn't talking down to you, John. Mainly I was referring to the fact that an extended conversation on this subject is inappropriate to this list. I would suggest Fritjof Capra's ^The Tao of Physics^ and works by Larry Dossey as places to start (but there has been a lot more written since Capra's work). Dossey presents research that begins to show mind/matter effects. What modern physics is showing is that the interconnectedness of life and systems is profound, which is the basis of the ancient spiritualities. I am saying that we keep finding out more and more about interconnectedness as science continues to improve its tools. --Victoria vbaker@pacific.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 12:23:03 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.A Binns" Subject: Re: New York bias Just a side-line on this from a book I am currently indexing - there are more telephones in the New York-New Jersey metropolitan area than in the whole of Africa. Margaret ============================ Margaret Binns Indexer 20 Hangleton Manor Close Hove, Sussex, BN3 8AJ, UK Tel: 01273 420844 binns@hangleton.u-net.com ============================ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 08:46:10 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Whitfield, James" Subject: IN-HOUSE JOB OPPORTUNITY AT AMERICAN PSYCHOLOGICAL ASSN/PsycINFO AMERICAN PSYCHOLOGICAL ASSOCIATION/PsycINFO Position: Technical Information Analyst/Specialist Responsibilities: Working in a production-oriented work-team environment, the Technical Information Analyst/Specialist will abstract journal articles, prepare summary content for books and chapters, index serial and nonserial records, research bibliographic data, proofread and enter records into our online system as well as participate in other production-related activities. Advancement within PsycINFO is available by attaining production benchmarks for quality and quantity as well as demonstrating a high level of team skills and effectively performing production-related tasks. Qualifications: Bachelor's degree in psychology or related field (with significant coursework in psychology), demonstrated analytical skills, excellent interpersonal skills, and the ability to perform detailed work in a team/production environment. Relevant database production, indexing, or abstracting experience is required. Word processing skills and familiarity with Windows and online databases are needed. Three or more years of related experience may substitute for a degree. Experience in an information related job is highly desirable. APA is one of the largest association publishers and offers a comprehensive benefits package, a smoke-free building next to Union Station/Metro and salaries beginning in the mid-20s. To apply, please send your resume, cover letter, and salary requirements to: American Psychological Association ATTN: Human Resources/TIA 750 First Street, N.E. Washington, DC 20002-4242 EOE/AA Email: jobs@apa.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:49:07 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: NYC publishers In-Reply-To: <199809101836.OAA06525@mail3.bellsouth.net> |-----Original Message----- |From: Indexer's Discussion Group |[mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Mary Mortensen |Sent: Thursday, September 10, 1998 1:32 PM |To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L |Subject: NYC publishers | | |And the other general comment I will make is that most of the NY companies |have called me because of referrals, not from my cold calls in my initial |marketing campaign. It seems to me that the people who hire |freelancers in NY |tend to know a lot of people in the publishing industry, and will |ask around |for the names of freelancers (at least indexers). But that's only my |experience. | |And your experience may be very different, and I don't want to |discourage any |new indexers from marketing to NY publishers. After all, the more |people have |your name and phone number, the more chances you have of getting that first |call. | |Good luck! |Mary I think this is *generally* true. I've always dealt more with academic and university presses than with "commericial" outfits, and there are a couple of those who do a lot of publishing in areas that I'm really interested in, but which were known for being difficult to break into (and which I'd had no luck with in sending a "cold" letter). However, I also do work for professor-types -- who generally have gotten my name from other academics for whom I've worked -- and two of them happened to be doing books that were to be published by those selfsame university presses. Having conferred with the managing editor in both cases, and having completed the index satisfactorily, both editors later called me with new assignments. They "knew" me now. Both publishers are in large cities, BTW, where they presumably have access to a pool of freelance talent. I've never had a university press in a small college town in the midwest expect their freelancers to be local people. Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net ICQ #15741870 http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:10:00 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: NYC publishers I got my first job through a cold call to a NYC publisher, who is still on my client list. So there are some for whom that approach works, too. Kara Pekar 8112 Harrison Dr. King George, VA 22485 jkpekar@crosslink.net (540) 775-3012 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 08:38:46 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Subject: Re: Proof rack Levenger (800-544-0880) has a folding oak bookstand that sells for $29.95 that I have been using. Sandi Schroeder Schroeder Indexing Services ---------- : From: DStaub11@AOL.COM : To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L : Subject: Re: Proof rack : Date: Thursday, September 10, 1998 10:51 PM : : John Sampson wrote: : : << I have not seen any discussion here of ways of coping with proofs : physically. How do other subscribers tackle proofs in this : physical sense? >> : : I designed a rack for myself and had it built. It's a slanted board with a : five-inch-wide edge (which slants at right angles to the board), wide enough : for two piles of proofs. My monitor is up on a wooden shelf (at ergonomic : height), and the proofs sit between it and the keyboard, so I don't have to : move my head at all to look back and forth, just my eyes. I started out (in : the dining-room table days) with the proofs on a small table to my left, and : damaged my neck--I strongly recommend that people don't put the proofs to the : side. : : Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:00:37 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Anne Taylor Subject: Re: software At 06:32 PM 9/10/98 -0400, you wrote: >A few reference books that I bought during the past year have come >with CDs containing material, not with indexes, but with fairly >comprehensive Tables of Content [Table of Contents?]. These are >in .PDF format and may be read with the freely-downloadable Acrobat >Reader; I understand only the latest Reader contains this contents >search ability. Combine this Reader with a good printer and you may >print hard copy of any page(s) in a book, including illustrations. > >I understand that generating a .PDF document is difficult; I have >no experience since the full Adobe Acrobat software is way too >expensive for me to try. It's possible that one of your local service >centers or large copy center may be equipped with the program. Brief add-on: Also try local, medium-to-large, public and academic libraries. Many cd-rom and other 'electric' government documents are .pdf format, so the Feds made the software available to libraries with large gov. doc. collections--especially Federal Depository Libraries. I've printed out Adobe files on laser printers for students and faculty many times in the past few years. I can't guarantee that reference librarians in your area will be able to accommodate your need, but it won't hurt to ask. [...] Anne Anne Taylor University of Missouri-St. Louis ataylor@umsl.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:09:41 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: Proof rack At 11:51 PM 9/10/98 EDT, DStaub11@AOL.COM wrote: >John Sampson wrote: > ><< I have not seen any discussion here of ways of coping with proofs > physically. How do other subscribers tackle proofs in this > physical sense? >> > >I designed a rack for myself and had it built. It's a slanted board with a >five-inch-wide edge (which slants at right angles to the board), wide enough >for two piles of proofs. My monitor is up on a wooden shelf (at ergonomic >height), and the proofs sit between it and the keyboard, so I don't have to >move my head at all to look back and forth, just my eyes. I started out (in >the dining-room table days) with the proofs on a small table to my left, and >damaged my neck--I strongly recommend that people don't put the proofs to the >side. > I agree with Do Mi. My neck problems would be intensified if I had to swivel all the time back and forth. I cut the proofs if they are too large and once I get them to the right size for a three-ring binder, I punch holes in the proofs and place them in binders. These binders fit nicely on the desk I describe below. I have a cheap 90$ desk from Lowe's that has the slant board right under the monitor and I couldn't live without it. It also has wheels so you can move it around if you have all your computer equipment on the desk's shelves. One of the drawbacks is that the desk is a bit narrow and so the pullout shelf for both the keyboard and mouse is also too narrow. This became a major problem when I started using the new CINDEX for Windows because I use the mouse alot. I am thinking about adding a sort of flip board attached with hinges to the pullout board so that I can put the mouse pad there. When I am done for the day, I should be able to just flip back the added board onto the original pullout board and push the whole thing in under the slant board. The desk also has a book shelf above the monitor for basic reference books and shelves below for storage and the other components of the computer. Since I have a tower with my computer, I can use these shelves to store paper and boxes of old disks, plus my zip drive. The other drawback of this desk is that I need to have special computer glasses, for which I calculated the distance from the monitor and the proofs. I then told my eye doctor and the glasses were made. These glasses are single vision (i.e., no bifocal). I have a light behind me (a halogen floor lamp for $19 from Lowe's) and a swivel arm floor lamp from Levenger's that I use over the proofs on the slant board. ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen Bertelsen Indexing and Editorial Services (Cookbooks and Food History a Specialty) cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.usit.com/cbertel/ ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 08:04:04 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Darci Balius Subject: Re: software Delurking...... I and my colleagues here generate PDFs on an almost daily basis for our clients. It is really no more difficult than printing a file. Really! The manuals we PDF also contain indexes that, if properly generated, have automatic links from the index entry to the point in the text where the index marker is placed. All of our indexes are embedded (usually in FrameMaker 5.01 file, but also in Word, PageMaker, and Ventura Publisher). Of course there are some tricks to generating the PDF to make it work right the first time. I would be happy to discuss some of these tricks with anyone who is interested. The manuals we produce are currently designed for both print and online presentation. There is no way in heck that I would use a Acrobat plug-in to produce an index! A PDF is a final output file, meaning only minor changes can be made to the PDF. If for some reason we have to go back to the source documents and make changes (which has become standard operating procedures for this client, but hey, they pay for it ;-D), all of the index entries would be lost and the index would have to be totally rebuilt. Also, the print quality of the PDF not only depends on the printer, but also on how the PDF was generated (which print driver was used). The Acrobat Suite is very expensive, but I wouldn't expect freelance indexers to need the software. The author should be producing the final output of the book. Darci Balius Sakson & Taylor darcib@sakson.com voice 208.853.0335 fax 208.853.0226 -----Original Message----- From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott [mailto:75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM] Sent: Thursday, September 10, 1998 4:33 PM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: software A few reference books that I bought during the past year have come with CDs containing material, not with indexes, but with fairly comprehensive Tables of Content [Table of Contents?]. These are in .PDF format and may be read with the freely-downloadable Acrobat Reader; I understand only the latest Reader contains this contents search ability. Combine this Reader with a good printer and you may print hard copy of any page(s) in a book, including illustrations. I understand that generating a .PDF document is difficult; I have no experience since the full Adobe Acrobat software is way too expensive for me to try. It's possible that one of your local service centers or large copy center may be equipped with the program. One book to which I refer above is Mueller's classic, "Upgrading and Repairing PCs", now in its eighth edition, published by QUE. The CD contains the text of earlier editions of the book, as well as three or so OTHER books from QUE! One of them is a Macintosh handbook which has actually helped me solve a couple of Mac problems [I'm a PC user, mostly]. Hope this helps a little. In fact, one of you indexers out there should sign up with a programmer, generate an indexing plug-in, and sell it to Adobe for lots of money. Cheers, Dave T. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 12:40:56 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Nancy A. Guenther" Subject: Phila group ASI meeting notice -- Sept 26, 1998 REMINDER: All are welcome -- membership is not a requirement: American Society of Indexers Philadelphia Group Next meeting =96 September 26, 1998 1:00 pm to 3:00 pm Kamm Schreiner will demonstrate SKY Index, a Windows-based indexing program. Since Kamm is the developer of SKY this is your opportunity to learn about the latest refinements to this software as well as compare it with what you might now be using. We plan to conclude with an informal networking opportunity so bring your questions & a small snack to share. Meeting will be at: Marshallton United Methodist Church 1282 West Strasburg Road (Route 162) West Chester, PA 19382 RSVP: Nancy Guenther 543 Spring Oak Drive West Chester, PA 19382 610-436-4049; nanguent@chesco.com Directions from Routes 3 & 202: Go west on Route 3 into West Chester, following the Route 3 signs as they take you through the town's one-way streets. On the west side of town, follow Route 162 for approximately 4 miles to the village of Marshallton. Church will be on the left as you enter the village. Driveway to the parking lot is just beyond the church. For online maps, check the church's web page: http://www.gbgm-umc.org/marshltn/mumcmap.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 12:25:11 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kay K. Schlembach" Subject: Re: Tropical storm and generators Hi All, My working partner and I have 3 projects on very short deadlines, and have just dealt with Tropical Storm Francis (in addition to the usual sick kids and slipped schedules). It was a very real possibility that we would have no power, no Fed ex and possibly no phone service. My husband and I were joking about using his lap-top by running it off the cigarette lighter in our Suburban. Do any of you have generators? How do you prepare for unexpected severs weather? Thanks! Kay Schlembach ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 13:44:31 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barry Koffler Subject: Re: NYC publishers In-Reply-To: <199809111401.KAA29319@ulster.net> >I got my first job through a cold call to a NYC publisher, who is still on >my client list. So there are some for whom that approach works, too. > Yep. If you hit 'em on the right day, just when they need someone, it can work. I've done that, too. -Barry oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo barkof@ulster.net Barry Koffler mid-Hudson Valley, NY the FeatherSite at http://www.feathersite.com/ lead me not into temptation . . . I can find it myself. oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 13:50:21 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barry Koffler Subject: Re: Tropical storm and generators In-Reply-To: <199809111731.NAA17659@ulster.net> >Do any of you have >generators? How do you prepare for unexpected severs weather? > I do have a generator, but you need to have a really good UPS system because the ups and downs of power surges from the generator when heat etc. goes on are capable of frying your computer. Even with the UPS system, I almost never turn the computer on when the gen. is running. Figure act of God is act of God and even deadline jobs usually understand when the storm has put half a state out of action. My generator is really here cause I have to keep 400 plus critters alive and watered. -Barry oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo barkof@ulster.net Barry Koffler mid-Hudson Valley, NY the FeatherSite at http://www.feathersite.com/ lead me not into temptation . . . I can find it myself. oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:32:27 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Headley Subject: Re: Freelancer's Restrictions >From Christine Headley From: Manjit Sahai >Hi everyone, > >About few days back I mentioned that a new client has offered me an >indexing project on Pediatrics. I have received the entire manuscript in >2 batches. There is something in his letter which is really bothering me >quite a bit. It says...... > >"Freelancers also agree that for the duration of their assignment for >the *client*, and for six months thereafter, they will not perform >similar work on similar projects in print, video, electronic or other >media which directly compete with the *client*.".......Obviously, he >wants me to sign this agreement and send it to him. What is more, from an indexing point of view, you are only going to provide an identical index to an identical book! Even a non-disclosure clause should be unnecessary, as the book should be in unchangeable form by the time it gets to the indexer. I can't imagine an indexer phoning a publisher to say 'hey, I've just done another book on this subject and they included a really interesting chapter on XXX. Why don't you get your author to write one too'! I would be happy to include a non-disclosure clause if it would keep them happy. In fact, surely, 'they' want us to do lots of books around their subjects so that we are up to date on terminology, concepts etc. This restriction is for authors, not indexers Best Christine Stroud, Glos ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 14:10:47 -0400 Reply-To: editink@istar.ca Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Heather Ebbs Organization: Editor's Ink Subject: Re: Tropical storm and generators I've no experience with tropical storms, but I did have to move out of my frozen house for 9 days during January's ice storm in Eastern Ontario. I too was in the middle of a few projects, all of which were pressing. In fact, I was already tight for time when the ice storm hit, and if anyone had asked me I would have said that there was no way I could afford the time of 10 days without power. But as Barry said, clients do understand when something as major as a natural disaster strikes, whether they are in the affected area or not. I was able to put off all jobs, though it did mean I was insanely rushed for weeks once I was back home with power on. But if I'd had to, I'd have asked clients to find another indexer--I can't imagine any of them being irritated with my backing out at the last minute under those conditions. And those people using generators were using them, also as Barry said, for the survival of themselves, their families and their animals. Heather Ebbs ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 14:10:36 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Deborah Shaw Subject: Re: Tropical storm and generators In-Reply-To: <199809111732.NAA12677@camel16.mindspring.com> At 12:25 PM 11-09-98 -0500, Kay Schlembach wrote: > . . . Do any of you have generators? How do you prepare for unexpected severe weather? < When Fran blew through, we were without electricity for more than two weeks and phone service for more than three. We were cut off completely for several days because the roads were blocked by a flooded creek on one side and a series of downed trees tangled with electrical wires in the other. We're on a well, so no electricity is no water. I worked on my then-current project by getting out my banker's box, alphabetical indexes, and the used catalogue cards that make excellent index cards, and by dusting off, oiling, and changing the ribbon on the Royal manual upright typewriter on which I had learned to type, circa 1960. When we were able to get out, the community purchased a generator and we ran it an hour a day on each well (we have two). Generators are expensive to run. Print out your index before the power fails (you can't print without power) and organize your work so that you do not require a computer. Save your laptop battery by planning ahead and always save your work on a diskette in RTF format. Do not leave tapes in the VCR player, or CDs in the CD player or diskettes in the floppy drive. Cheers, Deborah shawd@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 15:01:39 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Emily Adelsohn Subject: Embedded Index in Word I have an assignment which may involve doing an embedded index for a document that was created in Word 97 (unofficially Word 8) for Windows 98. My computer is loaded with Word 7 for Windows 95. I can't open files in Word 97; they turn to gibberish. By Monday a.m., I need to advise the tech. writing contractor whether the text files, if saved as, and indexed in, the earlier version of Word, can be re-translated back to Word 97 with no loss. If translating up and down in versions of Word turns out not to be advisable, can anyone tell me what alternatives I can offer the contractor in order to get this greatly desired indexing job? The client is willing to accept a stand-alone index, which would be easier for me anyway, but the manual WITH the index is going to be tested and possibly revised next month, so embedding makes a lot more sense. Besides, I want to learn embedded indexing for my repertoire. So I'm hoping you-all can give me some guidance, soon. --Emily Adelsohn Pasadena, CA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 12:04:24 -0700 Reply-To: Elinor Lindheimer Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: Re: Tropical storm and generators A generator was our sole source of power for many years. Computers were much less powerful then--my first was an Osborne with 64K RAM and a five-inch screen. But as my equipment changed, the generator was still enough, and I never had a problem with surges--only with running out of gas! The generator was a 500-watt Honda, which we placed about 50 feet from the house to lessen the noise. Siphoning gas into it from a big gas can was not fun, but doable. We didn't use the generator for anything else other than low-wattage lights and a small black-and-white TV. Now that we're living in the "real world" again, power outages are more serious. Like Deborah, we have no water when we have no power. (I'm intrigued by your "community" generator!) I'm like to have one of the old-fashioned hand pumps, or a big tank to store water in, with a spigot. There have been times when all roads to the coast were cut off by fallen trees and landslides for several days, meaning no FedEx and mail. I have always found that clients understood any delay caused by nature. But if I had the money and the space, I would add an alternative generator-powered system for the whole house. Ah, dream on! Elinor Lindheimer Mendocino, CA elinorl@mcn.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 13:27:36 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Arthur Elser Organization: EXCEL PROFESSIONAL SERVICES Subject: Re: Embedded Index in Word Emily asked: >>By Monday a.m., I need to advise the tech. writing contractor whether the text files, if saved as, and indexed in, the earlier version of Word, can be re-translated back to Word 97 with no loss.<< The person with the original file can resave the file in Word 7 format which you can open. Then, you can embed your index tags and save the file normally. Word 97 should be able to open the Word 7 file with no problem. I use this technique between Word 7 running on Win NT at work and my Mac at home running Word 5.1. Hope this helps. art ================================================================== Art Elser (303) 965-4825 aelser@uswest.com Information Developer, U S WEST There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts. Illusions, Richard Bach =================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 14:34:14 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary Fran Prottsman Subject: Alabama Any indexers from Alabama, Northwest Florida, or Mississippi interested = in getting together. Please contact me: Ron Prottsman protts@entercomp.com Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 14:39:43 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Erika Millen Subject: Re: Embedded Index in Word Emily Adelsohn writes: << I have an assignment which may involve doing an embedded index for a document that was created in Word 97 (unofficially Word 8) for Windows 98. My computer is loaded with Word 7 for Windows 95. I can't open files in Word 97; they turn to gibberish. By Monday a.m., I need to advise the tech. writing contractor whether the text files, if saved as, and indexed in, the earlier version of Word, can be re-translated back to Word 97 with no loss. >> Emily, You'll want to download the Word 97 file format converter, available (free) from http://www.microsoft.com/support It will allow you to open and work with Word 97 documents without upgrading to Word 97. It's also possible to backsave Word 97 chapters, but without seeing the formatted chapters, I'm not sure what might be lost. My department is in the process of upgrading to Word 97, and we convert chapters back and forth all the time without a problem. But then, we're also not using any of the Word 97-specific formatting capabilities yet. :) I do know that certain features like outlines, numbered lists, borders, tables, and embossed text can be lost (permanently) if the file is backsaved. The good news is that the embedded index entries won't be affected at all. Your editor should know (or be able to find out) whether the chapters contain any unique Word 97 features that would be affected if you work in an earlier version of Word. Good luck! Erika Millen Indianapolis, IN ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 14:50:03 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Erika Millen Subject: Re[2]: Embedded Index in Word Oops! I forgot to add that even with the Word 97 file format converter, certain features can still be lost. Your tech writer should have a list of all the special formatting features that will be affected (there's a complete list in the Word 97 help file), and he/she can always test by backsaving a chapter or two. Erika ____________________________________ Emily Adelsohn writes: << I have an assignment which may involve doing an embedded index for a document that was created in Word 97 (unofficially Word 8) for Windows 98. My computer is loaded with Word 7 for Windows 95. I can't open files in Word 97; they turn to gibberish. By Monday a.m., I need to advise the tech. writing contractor whether the text files, if saved as, and indexed in, the earlier version of Word, can be re-translated back to Word 97 with no loss. >> Emily, You'll want to download the Word 97 file format converter, available (free) from http://www.microsoft.com/support It will allow you to open and work with Word 97 documents without upgrading to Word 97. It's also possible to backsave Word 97 chapters, but without seeing the formatted chapters, I'm not sure what might be lost. My department is in the process of upgrading to Word 97, and we convert chapters back and forth all the time without a problem. But then, we're also not using any of the Word 97-specific formatting capabilities yet. :) I do know that certain features like outlines, numbered lists, borders, tables, and embossed text can be lost (permanently) if the file is backsaved. The good news is that the embedded index entries won't be affected at all. Your editor should know (or be able to find out) whether the chapters contain any unique Word 97 features that would be affected if you work in an earlier version of Word. Good luck! Erika Millen Indianapolis, IN ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:34:41 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barry Koffler Subject: Re: Tropical storm and generators In-Reply-To: <199809111818.OAA22158@ulster.net> >I worked on my then-current project by getting out my banker's box, >alphabetical indexes, and the used catalogue cards that make excellent >index cards, and by dusting off, oiling, and changing the ribbon on the >Royal manual upright typewriter on which I had learned to type, circa 1960. Uh-oh, I've still got lots of index cards, but the typewriter is history! -Barry oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo barkof@ulster.net Barry Koffler mid-Hudson Valley, NY the FeatherSite at http://www.feathersite.com/ lead me not into temptation . . . I can find it myself. oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 00:42:39 -0500 Reply-To: jspool@uie.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Jared M. Spool" Organization: User Interface Engineering Subject: User Interface 98 Conference I know this is a little off topic, but I thought the members of this list would be interested in an upcoming conference called User Interface 98. We've only got a few spaces left for this event, which will be held October 5-7 in Cambridge, MA. We've asked the most talented people in the field of user interface design to give eight full-day seminars and short presentations on the state of the art in software and web site design. User Interface 98 is a 3-day conference for people who have hands-on involvement in product development and web site design. You'll come away with practical knowledge that you can begin using immediately in your work. Topics include: * Web Design: Beyond the Page Toward the Network Economy * Conceptual Design * Successful Strategies for Selling Usability * Field Studies: The Personal Touch * Designing with the Mind in Mind * Designing for Day-One Performance * Practical Usability Methods in Web Site Design * Usage-Centered Web Design: Model-Driven Techniques for the Web We've lined up some world-renowned experts as speakers including Jakob Nielsen, Gloria Gery, Kathy Potosnak, Larry Constantine, Lucy Lockwood, Sarah Bloomer, Kate Gomoll, Eric Bond, Tom Hewett, Tom Brinck, Darren Gergle, Scott Wood, and Bruce Tognazzini. I would be happy to e-mail you more information about the User Interface 98 conference. Send mailto:UI98INFO@UIE.COM with the words SEND BROCHURE in the subject field. Or see the conference web site at http://www.ui98.com. I hope to see you at the conference. Jared M. Spool Chair, User Interface 98 Founding Principal, User Interface Engineering P.S. There are only a few spaces left -- register today! ========================================================== Jared M. Spool User Interface Engineering mailto:jspool@uie.com 800 Turnpike Street, Suite 101 (978) 975-4343 North Andover, MA 01845 fax: (978) 975-5353 USA http://www.uie.com http://www.ui98.com ========================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 01:24:22 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Proof rack In-Reply-To: <199809120408.XAA07402@mixcom.mixcom.com> I simply put a thin hardcover book just behind the top row of keys on my keyboard, with the top of the book leaning back slightly, against the computer. I can then take a chapter's worth of pages at a time and stand them up in front of the book (wedged between the bottom of the book and the keys). Works for me the way a rack would, and it's free. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 09:22:25 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: Weird computer problems Victoria, Please, I was *not* trying to correct you. I had hoped to make that clear in what I wrote. I merely thought the information fascinating and related to what you had written. Being from a very scientific background, I can say with conviction that science has not now (nor will ever have) all the answers. I, too, thought the analogy to wiring overly simplistic, if not misleading. I am particulary interested in the trend in some circles toward the eastern ideas of body/mind as one system, rather than the western notion (wrong, IMHO) that the body and the mind can be regarded as two separate entities. The Pert research supports the first view -- scientifically "proving" what the Chinese, for example, have accepted "on faith" for centuries. I only wish that the US medical system would place more emphasis on the physical examination and the body/mind as a whole. Instead, emphasis is put on "tests." I recently went to my internist complaining of chronic & vague problems. She tapped my knees & listened to my chest, and then ordered about $300.00 in lab tests. I had not seen her for about 2 years. I felt a more thorough exam was in order, but at least she did take a thorough history & *listened* to my input on the problem. Victoria, I think our ideas are very close together, and, as I said, I was trying to add to what you said, not correct it. I'm sorry that I haven't kept up with my e-mail from the list for a couple of days and didn't clear this up sooner. Ann Truesdale In a message dated 98-09-08 18:36:57 EDT, Victoria wrote: > Ok... I stand corrected. I don't think of the brain as criss-crossed > wires, though. I think of it as synapses. Nevertheless, without that 2%, > nothing is going to happen in in there ;) I don't really know why some > people affect computers badly, but I know it happens. Maybe it's static > electricity, who knows. But I do get tired of the "no scientific evidence" > argument. Hey... at one time, science showed the earth was flat, and > modern physics is really way beyond the level of this conversation in terms > of the effects of life forms on their surroundings. In other words... > cutting-edge physics is showing that the intentions of our minds do affect > the material world, just as the ancient spiritualities teach. > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 12:08:36 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: francine cronshaw Subject: Re: NYC publishers In-Reply-To: The discussion about NYC publishers and their impenetrability raises an interesting related question: why we don't have our national meetings more often in locations where publishers are plentiful, such as Washington, DC or New York City. It would make our organization more high profile and the organizing committee could invite some dynamite speakers from among the editors located in that city. Just my two cents worth. Francine Cronshaw East Mountain Editing Services Tijeras, New Mexico Se habla espannol ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 16:00:35 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Debra Lindblom Subject: Re: NYC publishers In a message dated 98-09-12 14:12:27 EDT, you write: << The discussion about NYC publishers and their impenetrability raises an interesting related question: why we don't have our national meetings more often in locations where publishers are plentiful, such as Washington, DC or New York City. When compiling my mailing list, I noticed many publishers in Chicago as well. Debbie ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 15:03:28 -0700 Reply-To: Elinor Lindheimer Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: Re: NYC publishers Francine asked: >[W]hy we don't have our national meetings more often in locations where publishers are plentiful, >such as Washington, DC or New York City. It would make our >organization more high profile and the organizing committee could >invite some dynamite speakers from among the editors located >in that city. The 25th anniversary meeting was held in Alexandria, Virginia, which is essentially Washington, D.C. Meetings used to be held in New York when they were one-day sessions and when most of the attendees were from the East Coast and could take a train to the city for the day. Whenever the question of meeting in New York has come up lately, the cost has been the sticking point. There were many concerns about the meeting in Seattle being expensive--New York would be much, much worse. So-called "second-tier" cities are much more affordable for groups such as ASI. Now, there is nothing preventing the New York Chapter from inviting dynamite speakers from the editing community in New York to luncheon meetings. And if all goes well, those indexers would be so busy when the New York editors called that they would have to refer to other indexers--perhaps some in far corners of the U.S. I truly believe that the best way to get new clients is by referral from other indexers. That's why it's important that we share our knowledge, network--and if possible, get to know one another's work. Even if the latter isn't possible, I have often referred people by saying, "I don't know their work, but I know they're good people," or something equally inane--but you get the point. Yesterday I turned down two indexing jobs, and referred the callers to six other indexers. I'm sure I'm not the only one in such a position. Being active in ASI is the best way to meet the colleagues who will be in a position to refer you. And please note--and I can't help myself here--by "being active" I mean working as part of team, doing what needs to be done, saying "yes" rather than "no, I'm not good enough," or "no, I'm too inexperienced." Being active requires getting along with different kinds of people in different kinds of situations--much like working for different kinds of clients. If you are working to create and maintain positive energy within ASI--not complaining about how little it does for you or how screwed up something is at one time or another--you will receive positive energy back, and that means jobs. It's very, very true. Good luck to all you newbies! Elinor Lindheimer Past President, ASI Past President, Golden Gate Chapter elinorl@mcn.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 18:48:41 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: NYC publishers I would love to see a meeting in a "first-tier" city once every 2 or 3 years. I know that the major cities -- NYC, Chicago, DC -- are expensive for conference and hotel accommodations. But I think the value for the money would be there -- both for ASI members, and for ASI itself. What a wonderful PR move to put our conference where the action is! I think it would be good if we rotated to a first-tier city periodically. ASI serves many levels of members -- from those who might not be able to afford the first-tier cities, to others who can, and in between are those for whom it might pay to stick their necks out for the more expensive major-city conference even if it were a stretch. By rotating to first-tier cities, ASI could satisfy the needs of more types of members. If a member couldn't attend one conference because it was too expensive, then the next year's conference would be more affordable. And while we're at it, there's San Francisco too. I hope many of you are planning to attend the Indianapolis conference next May. Plenty of publishers in that mid-West area! Janet Perlman SOUTHWEST INDEXING Phoenix, AZ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 09:26:28 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Subject: Re: NYC publishers The next annual meeting will be in Indianapolis and while Indianapolis is not a major publishing center, it is the home of Macmillan and they will be giving two presentations--one on how they index their books and one on the editorial process. I am also looking to fill several roundable panels with editors, many will be from the Chicago area. I am also planning a packaging services panel. So we should have a good representation from the Chicago-area publishers. Sandi Schroeder Schroeder Indexing Services and Vice President, American Society of Indexers ---------- : From: Elinor Lindheimer : To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L : Subject: Re: NYC publishers : Date: Saturday, September 12, 1998 5:03 PM : : Francine asked: : : >[W]hy we don't have our national meetings more often in locations where : publishers are plentiful, : >such as Washington, DC or New York City. It would make our : >organization more high profile and the organizing committee could : >invite some dynamite speakers from among the editors located : >in that city. : : The 25th anniversary meeting was held in Alexandria, Virginia, which is : essentially Washington, D.C. Meetings used to be held in New York when they : were one-day sessions and when most of the attendees were from the East : Coast and could take a train to the city for the day. Whenever the question : of meeting in New York has come up lately, the cost has been the sticking : point. There were many concerns about the meeting in Seattle being : expensive--New York would be much, much worse. So-called "second-tier" : cities are much more affordable for groups such as ASI. : : Now, there is nothing preventing the New York Chapter from inviting dynamite : speakers from the editing community in New York to luncheon meetings. And if : all goes well, those indexers would be so busy when the New York editors : called that they would have to refer to other indexers--perhaps some in far : corners of the U.S. I truly believe that the best way to get new clients is : by referral from other indexers. That's why it's important that we share our : knowledge, network--and if possible, get to know one another's work. Even if : the latter isn't possible, I have often referred people by saying, "I don't : know their work, but I know they're good people," or something equally : inane--but you get the point. : : Yesterday I turned down two indexing jobs, and referred the callers to six : other indexers. I'm sure I'm not the only one in such a position. Being : active in ASI is the best way to meet the colleagues who will be in a : position to refer you. And please note--and I can't help myself here--by : "being active" I mean working as part of team, doing what needs to be done, : saying "yes" rather than "no, I'm not good enough," or "no, I'm too : inexperienced." Being active requires getting along with different kinds of : people in different kinds of situations--much like working for different : kinds of clients. If you are working to create and maintain positive energy : within ASI--not complaining about how little it does for you or how screwed : up something is at one time or another--you will receive positive energy : back, and that means jobs. It's very, very true. : : Good luck to all you newbies! : : Elinor Lindheimer : Past President, ASI : Past President, Golden Gate Chapter : elinorl@mcn.org ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 11:27:35 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: NYC publishers In-Reply-To: <199809131433.KAA14621@camel16.mindspring.com> At 09:26 AM 9/13/98 -0500, you wrote: >The next annual meeting will be in Indianapolis and while Indianapolis is >not a major publishing center, it is the home of Macmillan Also the home of IDG, publishers of the Dummies series Dick ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 14:12:12 -0700 Reply-To: kpaparchontis@worldnet.att.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kathy Paparchontis Subject: indexing oral interviews Hi, I am interested to hear from anyone who has indexed taped oral interviews. Actually the contents are being preserved on "time segmented compact disc." I questioned an oral historian/oral history professor about what a time segmented compact disc is, and he said it's probably just a regular compact disc. Does anyone know if time segmented means anything different. I know I sound clueless, but that's what I am at this point. I am grateful for any information or suggestions about a project such as this. thank you in advance Kathy Paparchontis kpaparchontis@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 14:45:29 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Novak, Pamela L" Subject: Re: User Interface 98 Conference On Friday, September 11, 1998, Jared Spool wrote: >I know this is a little off topic, but I thought the members of this >list would be interested in an upcoming conference called User >Interface 98. We've only got a few spaces left for this event, which >will be held October 5-7 in Cambridge, MA. We've asked the most >talented people in the field of user interface design to give eight >full-day seminars and short presentations on the state of the art in >software and web site design. I would like to offer a personal endorsement. I attended this year's SIGCHI in Los Angeles, and had the opportunity to hear both Jared Spool and Jakob Nielsen speak on usability issues. I'm not kidding when I tell you that I have never attended a conference or offsite training session that was anywhere near as interesting or valuable. I'm sending three of my staff to Interface '98; my goal is to have all my staff attend the usability classes Jared and Jakob offer. My organization focuses primarily on web publishing - from content development to website design - but usability principles apply to any and all types of products. An index is certainly a product that needs to be usable! (Let's face it, sometimes a good index is all that keeps the document itself from being unusable....) Our organization has begun developing indexes for some of our bigger and more complex websites, and I see this as an area of growth over the next year. My hope is that the indexer can "get in the loop" earlier and help the web developers better organize their material - indexing professionals are very good at thinking in users' terms. If you can possibly get to Cambridge in October, you really should. You won't be disappointed! Pam Novak Manager, Electronic Communications Pacific Northwest National Laboratory Richland, WA Pam.Novak@pnl.gov ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 18:19:20 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: Tropical Storms & Generators Someone mentioned that local generators provide such an uneven supply of voltage that they may trash even a good UPS. My personal feeling is that OVER-voltages might be caught but UNDER-voltages [brownout] would be a problem. ALL IS NOT LOST. Several companies -- perhaps APC is one -- make Power Conditioners, which maintain constant output voltage against varying input conditions. Connecting generator-->conditioner-->UPS--> computer should be pretty reliable. Incidentally, this sort of setup strikes me as a good idea generally for the East coast where I understand brownout conditions are more frequent than in California. And yes, having a manual pump for a well certainly should be a part of one's home backup supplies, along with candles and flashlights. [For some reason I am very aware of "backup" situations, perhaps from my years in broadcasting. Recently my radio station built a fancy new studio which features a retracting skylight over the three-story high and rather nice lobby. My first question to my friend showing it to me was, "where's the crank?"] Cheers to all, Dave T. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 19:37:18 -0400 Reply-To: Cecile E Shmookler Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cecile E Shmookler Subject: indexing oral testimony I am interested in hearing from anyone who has experience indexing oral interviews, stored on CD. Thanks ******************** Cecile E. Shmookler cks@acsu.buffalo.edu home: 3510 Winchester Drive East Aurora, New York 14052 (716) 655-0553 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 21:22:25 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Peg Mauer Subject: Re: NYC publishers Hi Francine, In a message dated 98-09-13 00:03:26 EDT, you write: > The discussion about NYC publishers and their impenetrability raises > an interesting related question: why we don't have our national > meetings more often in locations where publishers are plentiful, > such as Washington, DC or New York City. It would make our > organization more high profile and the organizing committee could > invite some dynamite speakers from among the editors located > in that city. Some other folks in ASI have had the same idea! The annual ASI conferences for '99 and 2000 are already planned (for Indianapolis and Albuquerque, respectively). But the 2001 ASI conference is planned to be held in NYC! The objective is to make some publishers more aware of professional indexers and indexing, and to make indexers more aware of the needs of publishers. Hopefully, we'll all benefit. Stay tuned for more details as the date comes closer! ;-) Peg Mauer Publicity Chair, ASI ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:33:52 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: Weird computer problems In-Reply-To: <199809121324.GAA17892@pacific.net> Anne wrote: >Please, I was *not* trying to correct you. I had hoped to make that clear in >what I wrote. No worries, Anne. I didn't feel you were trying to, but I did think I had not been careful enough in my post. >I am particulary interested in the trend in some circles toward the eastern >ideas of body/mind as one system, rather than the western notion (wrong, IMHO) >that the body and the mind can be regarded as two separate entities. The Pert >research supports the first view -- scientifically "proving" what the Chinese, >for example, have accepted "on faith" for centuries. I am particularly interested in this idea as well. What is shows is that we cannot be certain where the body leaves off and the mind begins... [here Victoria whips out the book she just received with one of her indexes in it] which is what the principle of reciprocal determinism refers to, in part. This is the scientific knowledge that we often cannot determine which came first, the biological impulse or the environmental (mind) impulse [closing book]. By acknowledging the principles of connectivity contained in the concept of the Butterfly Effect, matter may then be understood to be an extension of the body in general, and the idea of mind affecting matter becomes less foreign. --Victoria vbaker@pacific.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 02:49:00 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Peter Rooney Subject: NYC meetings You wrote: >> The discussion about NYC publishers and their impenetrability >> raises >> an interesting related question: why we don't have our national >> meetings more often in locations where publishers are plentiful, >> such as Washington, DC or New York City. It would make our >> organization more high profile and the organizing committee could >> invite some dynamite speakers from among the editors located >> in that city. >Some other folks in ASI have had the same idea! The annual ASI >conferences for >'99 and 2000 are already planned (for Indianapolis and Albuquerque, >respectively). But the 2001 ASI conference is planned to be held in >NYC! Hallelujah! In the beginning, ASI was exclusively a New York phenomenon. It began in NYC, because that's where the publishers and indexers were. Well, they still are here en masse - but few of the local indexers are members of ASI. The initiative some years back for ASI to go national was all too successful; the branches prosper, the roots stagnate - or so it seems. I believe the last annual meeting held in NYC was in 1982 or so. Addressing the argument that NYC is expensive - well, many would-be attendees already live here (as they do in Denver, Seattle, and other cities where conventions have been held). And many others can come up with reasons to visit us (Broadway shows, museum shows, concurrent conventions, visits to clients, visits to friends and relatives in the area). And what about the costs of travel to faraway cities - Denver, Seattle, etc.? It balances out. What is needed is the initiative and the will to make it happen. And yes, I volunteer. *** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:22:08 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Caroline Diepeveen & Boudewijn van Leeuwen Subject: Getting new clients (was: NYC Publishers) Elinor is absolutely right! I am a newbie indexer from the other side of the ocean (UK), and last week I got not just one but two jobs through referrals from other (more experienced) indexers, for which I am very grateful. I do not as yet know why they referred these publishers to me, but I suspect it may have something to do with the fact that I occasionally attend training sessions or meetings organised by the British Society of Indexers. Things might work a little differently in the US, because the country is so much larger, but my experience shows that it might really be a good idea to show your face once in while at places where indexers meet each other. Yes, I do admit that there was a little voice inside me saying: 'Do they really know they are giving this job to a pretty inexperienced indexer', but both jobs were well within my subject areas (international politics, history) and I thought: 'There is only one way to find out if I am really up to this job and that is to plunge in now'. So, I will pretty busy in the next couple of months, but not too busy, I hope, to read the tips and advice from others on this invaluable list. Caroline Diepeveen -----Original Message----- > From: owner-index-l@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU > [mailto:owner-index-l@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Elinor > Lindheimer > Sent: 12 September 1998 23:03 > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: NYC publishers > > > Francine asked: > > >[W]hy we don't have our national meetings more often in locations where > publishers are plentiful, > >such as Washington, DC or New York City. It would make our > >organization more high profile and the organizing committee could > >invite some dynamite speakers from among the editors located > >in that city. > > The 25th anniversary meeting was held in Alexandria, Virginia, which is > essentially Washington, D.C. Meetings used to be held in New York > when they > were one-day sessions and when most of the attendees were from the East > Coast and could take a train to the city for the day. Whenever > the question > of meeting in New York has come up lately, the cost has been the sticking > point. There were many concerns about the meeting in Seattle being > expensive--New York would be much, much worse. So-called "second-tier" > cities are much more affordable for groups such as ASI. > > Now, there is nothing preventing the New York Chapter from > inviting dynamite > speakers from the editing community in New York to luncheon > meetings. And if > all goes well, those indexers would be so busy when the New York editors > called that they would have to refer to other indexers--perhaps > some in far > corners of the U.S. I truly believe that the best way to get new > clients is > by referral from other indexers. That's why it's important that > we share our > knowledge, network--and if possible, get to know one another's > work. Even if > the latter isn't possible, I have often referred people by > saying, "I don't > know their work, but I know they're good people," or something equally > inane--but you get the point. > > Yesterday I turned down two indexing jobs, and referred the callers to six > other indexers. I'm sure I'm not the only one in such a position. Being > active in ASI is the best way to meet the colleagues who will be in a > position to refer you. And please note--and I can't help myself here--by > "being active" I mean working as part of team, doing what needs > to be done, > saying "yes" rather than "no, I'm not good enough," or "no, I'm too > inexperienced." Being active requires getting along with > different kinds of > people in different kinds of situations--much like working for different > kinds of clients. If you are working to create and maintain > positive energy > within ASI--not complaining about how little it does for you or > how screwed > up something is at one time or another--you will receive positive energy > back, and that means jobs. It's very, very true. > > Good luck to all you newbies! > > Elinor Lindheimer > Past President, ASI > Past President, Golden Gate Chapter > elinorl@mcn.org > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:19:39 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Cohen Subject: Re: NYC meetings I believe that the last NYC meeting was later than 1982, because my first ASI meeting was about 1986 or so, and it was in NYC (in the basement of the Ethical Culture building off CPW, with under 100 members in attendance). It was a stimulating day, but a far cry from the 4-day extravaganza we now stage! Under 100 people attended, in a single room, and there were no pre-conference workshops, etc. If you weren't a member of ASI before the Alexandria VA meeting, you have no idea how much the organization and our national meeting have changed in just a few years. I think that when people complain about the high costs of NYC conferences, hotel rooms are really the issue. I recently attended a 2-day conference in NYC, and the hotel costs (even with a conference discount) were staggering. Everything else was comparable to anywhere else. And since some ASI conference attendees come for pre-conference workshops and meetings as well as the actual conference, the price tag can get pretty steep. (I paid over $200 per night for a merely adequate room--in Indianapolis, I think the room prices will be far lower, even if you decide to get the best room in town). As for attending the theater and other cultural attractions of the city, those also cost an arm and a leg compared to what great theater costs here in the hinterlands (I just attended a "gala" world-class performance of 8 of the best violinists in the world for a mere $20 last night here in hokey ole "Naptown"--you'd never get a ticket like that in NYC. Sorry, I just had to plug how great and AFFORDABLE our cultural attractions are. Knee-jerk reaction from a former NYer who has seen the cultural light west of the Hudson River!!). And I never have the strength to get out much at ASI conferences, given how packed our days and evenings are. (I think that is a common problem.) So, let's not confuse attending a conference with taking a vacation--or base our decision making on going where there are the best "other things to do." The real issue is that we should be making an impact on the publishing industry, in which case we need to go (at least occasionally) where publishers are, wherever that is. Period. Barbara E. Cohen Indianapolis, IN ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 08:17:09 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kay K. Schlembach" Subject: Re: NYC publishers Excellent point - I was wondering that myself. Why not New York, Chicago and San Francisco? Kay Schlembach francine cronshaw wrote: > The discussion about NYC publishers and their impenetrability raises > an interesting related question: why we don't have our national > meetings more often in locations where publishers are plentiful, > such as Washington, DC or New York City. It would make our > organization more high profile and the organizing committee could > invite some dynamite speakers from among the editors located > in that city. > > Just my two cents worth. > > Francine Cronshaw > East Mountain Editing Services > Tijeras, New Mexico > Se habla espannol ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:43:05 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Organization: Crossover Information Services Subject: Fees for combined indexing and proofreading Hello, all. A client is asking for a quote for combined indexing and proofreading. I know we've discussed this sort of combined work before, but I'm wondering... do you do this? How do you set your fee for such combined work? If you have a per page rate for indexing, and another for proofreading, would you combine them and quote that price? And what is a common per page rate for proofreading, anyway? I had another client offer $2.00/page for proofreading... is that a reasonable rate for low- to medium-difficulty computer books? Thanks for any help and suggestions. -- Ann Norcross Crossover Information Services (919) 852-0042 mailto:norcross@ipass.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:48:32 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Peg Mauer Subject: Re: NYC publishers - correction I said: "Some other folks in ASI have had the same idea! The annual ASI conferences for '99 and 2000 are already planned (for Indianapolis and Albuquerque, respectively). But the 2001 ASI conference is planned to be held in NYC! The objective is to make some publishers more aware of professional indexers and indexing, and to make indexers more aware of the needs of publishers. Hopefully, we'll all benefit. Stay tuned for more details as the date comes closer! ;-)" I stand corrected. NYC is one of the places that is being considered for the 2001 ASI conference -- along with a couple of other cities. A final decision has not yet been made...see how quickly plans change? ;-) Peg Mauer Publicity Chair, ASI ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 08:11:56 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Darci Balius Subject: Adobe Acrobat and PDF files (was: software) (Long) Hi all-- I've had several requests for more information about using Adobe Acrobat, so here it is... A PDF will only do what you TELL it to do. So there are lots of features hidden in Acrobat that most users don't know anything about (I've recently been able to open up a dialog with one of Adobe's application engineers, so I'm learning lots of new things!). My Adobe contact suggested books by Tomas Merz. (These books were described by the Adobe engineers as the manuals that should have shipped with the product. I haven't read these books yet, but anything would be an improvement over the Adobe books!) Postscript & Acrobat/PDF : Applications, Troubleshooting, and Cross-Platform Publishing Thomas Merz / Hardcover / Published 1996 amazon.com Price: $69.50 Web Publishing With Acrobat/PDF Thomas Merz / Paperback / Published 1998 amazon.com price: $44.95 In FrameMaker, you would tell Frame to Enable Acrobat Data in the Print Dialog box, then select the items you want to generate into the PDF. In Ventura, the linking is automatic when you generate the PDF. These are the applications I have the most experience with. I would imagine there are similar options/features in PageMaker and Quark (I would call tech support, because it may be something that they haven't documented but that these programs are fully capable of). Since PM is an Adobe product, the PDF feature is probably available (but you might have to upgrade--I'm not sure when Adobe acquired PM). You can also go back into the PDF through AAExchange and link to your hearts content -- manually-- but this takes some time. We don't usually handle PDFs this way. Our client that is crazy in love with PDFs is currently localizing into 32 languages. So any manual manipulations of the PDF have to be repeated by the localization firm 32 times. We do however manually check each and every link in the PDF--but it's very rare that we find any problems. If you want to produce a high resolution PDF, use a printer driver that has high-resolution to print your PostScript file (such as the Linotronic 530 included with Windows 95). I believe this driver has 1600 dpi resolution. Then Distill your PS file to a PDF. I hope this sheds some light for you. Darci ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 11:49:26 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Margie Towery Subject: Re: Fees for combined indexing and proofreading I did just this several years ago on a couple of projects. I feel each is a separate task, even though I do catch and mark typos when I'm indexing (and forward them to the editor). But when asked to proofread and index, I charged for each task separately. Sorry, but I don't know what the going rate is for proofreading now. Margie Towery Towery Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 11:04:57 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Erika Millen Subject: Re: ASI conference in Indy (was NYC meetings) Barbara Cohen writes: << As for attending the theater and other cultural attractions of the city, those also cost an arm and a leg compared to what great theater costs here in the hinterlands (I just attended a "gala" world-class performance of 8 of the best violinists in the world for a mere $20 last night here in hokey ole "Naptown"--you'd never get a ticket like that in NYC. Sorry, I just had to plug how great and AFFORDABLE our cultural attractions are. Knee-jerk reaction from a former NYer who has seen the cultural light west of the Hudson River!!). >> :) For anyone interested, the ASI conference will be held during the Indianapolis Symphony Orchestra's annual spring festival. Concerts on June 11 and 12 will feature Vaughan Williams' "The Wasps Suite," Roderigo's Concerto d'Ete, Haydn's Symphony No. 7, and Respighi's "The Birds." The Indianapolis Symphony is one of only 18 full-time orchestras in the U.S., and is conducted by Raymond Leppard (formerly music director of the English Chamber Orchestra). The orchestra's Web site at http://www.in.net/iso/ has more info. Sorry, but I couldn't resist a quick plug! Erika Millen Indianapolis ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:19:31 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Debra Lindblom Subject: Re: proofreading fees The 1998 Writer's Market, under the book publishing category, lists proofreading charges as $12-30/hr or $1.50-3.50/page (high-end rates for technical, scientific, and reference material) Debbie Lindblom ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:43:58 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Cohen Subject: Re: ASI conference in Indy See how cultural ASI indexers in the hinterlands are! Turns out that Erika and I were at the same concert last night. It was a spectacular summer evening with appetizers under a tent in the Monument Circle before the concert, a stellar concert by the 8 judges of the International Violin Competition with the ISO, then dinner out in front of the theater. Next year's conference hotel is close to the Hilbert Circle Theater (home of the ISO), so definitely check it out if you love great music (at affordable ticket prices). Barbara! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 11:07:37 -0700 Reply-To: ljm2001@mindspring.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LJM Subject: Re: NYC meetings Regarding the high cost of hotel rooms, CNN recently had an article on hotel discounters: http://cnn.com/TRAVEL/ESSENTIALS/ADVISOR/9808/hotel.discounters.lat/index.html Might come in useful on the next trip to a large city. Laura ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 11:56:31 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: Adobe Acrobat and PDF files (was: software) (Long) In-Reply-To: <199809141534.LAA19292@camel16.mindspring.com> PageMaker indeed talks to PDF file formats, and in fact, if you embed your index using PageMaker's codes, you can create a PDF file in which the index is hyperactive and jumps to the page. TOCs too. Word also has a PDF export filter which I believe you must download from the Microsoft site. But the indexes must be linked manually, I believe. Only Frame and PageMaker's indexes will translate into hyperactively linked indexes automatically in the PDF file - the rest you must do manually with the full product of Acrobat. Quark probably also generates PDF files - I have no idea if the index will become interactive in it. Jan Wright At 08:11 AM 9/14/98 -0700, you wrote: >Hi all-- >I've had several requests for more information about using Adobe >Acrobat, so here it is... > > >A PDF will only do what you TELL it to do. So there are lots of features >hidden in Acrobat that most users don't know anything about (I've >recently been able to open up a dialog with one of Adobe's application >engineers, so I'm learning lots of new things!). My Adobe contact >suggested books by Tomas Merz. (These books were described by the Adobe >engineers as the manuals that should have shipped with the product. I >haven't read these books yet, but anything would be an improvement over >the Adobe books!) > >Postscript & Acrobat/PDF : Applications, Troubleshooting, and >Cross-Platform Publishing >Thomas Merz / Hardcover / Published 1996 >amazon.com Price: $69.50 > >Web Publishing With Acrobat/PDF >Thomas Merz / Paperback / Published 1998 >amazon.com price: $44.95 > >In FrameMaker, you would tell Frame to Enable Acrobat Data in the Print >Dialog box, then select the items you want to generate into the PDF. In >Ventura, the linking is automatic when you generate the PDF. These are >the applications I have the most experience with. I would imagine there >are similar options/features in PageMaker and Quark (I would call tech >support, because it may be something that they haven't documented but >that these programs are fully capable of). Since PM is an Adobe product, >the PDF feature is probably available (but you might have to >upgrade--I'm not sure when Adobe acquired PM). > >You can also go back into the PDF through AAExchange and link to your >hearts content -- manually-- but this takes some time. We don't usually >handle PDFs this way. Our client that is crazy in love with PDFs is >currently localizing into 32 languages. So any manual manipulations of >the PDF have to be repeated by the localization firm 32 times. We do >however manually check each and every link in the PDF--but it's very >rare that we find any problems. > >If you want to produce a high resolution PDF, use a printer driver that >has high-resolution to print your PostScript file (such as the >Linotronic 530 included with Windows 95). I believe this driver has 1600 >dpi resolution. Then Distill your PS file to a PDF. > >I hope this sheds some light for you. >Darci > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 06:00:00 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.A Binns" Subject: Re: New York bias Another snippet about New York from the book I am currently indexing: In 1995 the budget of the New York Police Department was almost double that of the United Nations. Margaret ============================ Margaret Binns Indexer 20 Hangleton Manor Close Hove, Sussex, BN3 8AJ, UK Tel: 01273 420844 binns@hangleton.u-net.com ============================ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:39:36 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Cohen Subject: Re: NYPD Yeah, well, it would have to be. They have more problems in a smaller geographic area! (Corollary: It is easier to get along with people you don't have to rub shoulders with on the subway.) :) Barbara ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:55:58 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MAREA Subject: INDY in '99 I just checked out the ASI web page for info about the conference, but I didn't see anything about the cost. Does anyone know approx. how much the conference will be, the hotel rates, etc.? Thanks! Marea ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 01:40:13 +0400 Reply-To: invst@prodigy.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Resent-From: invst@prodigy.com Comments: Originally-From: "Investment Expo" From: invst@PRODIGY.COM Subject: INVESTMENT EXPO '98... You're Invited! Dear Investor, We would like to personally invite you to attend INVESTMENT EXPO '98, New York's largest and most dynamic two-day =46inancial Exhibition and= Seminar. Investment Expo '98 is the obvious Destination for all smart investors. Attending this trade show and seminar could be one of the most profitable decisions you ever make. One that can send you home richer. Richer with the knowledge gained from a select group of recognized and prominent professionals coming together and creating a stimulating learning experience that can propel you closer toward your dreams and aspirations like Paul Kangas, Nightly Business Report, Michael Murphy, editor of the California Technology Stock Letter, Adriane Berg from WABC Radio & many others renowned for their high levels of expertise & integrity. Richer because our seminars present "cutting edge" ideas and industry trends. Shouldn't this be your obvious destination? Here are the Details: Date: October 3 & 4th Location: Sheraton New York Hotel & Towers, 7th Ave at 53rd St in New York City. =46or travel directions & discounted hotel reservations call: (212) 581-1000 Hours: Saturday, October 3 10:00 AM - 7:00 PM Sunday, October 4 10:00 AM - 6:00 PM Registration begins at 9:00 AM both days Admission: Two-day event for only $29.95 per person, $20 for one day . Senior citizens are only $15 for both days, $10 for one day. To attend this event you may register online at: http://www.investmentexpo.com Click here! or in person the morning of the show starting at 9:00 am or register by phone by calling 888-874-9200. If you are a company interested in exhibiting at Investment Expo, call us at (212) 655-4540 x 230. The following is a partial list of companies that will be exhibiting at the show: Smith Barney, Nightly Business Report, Invesco =46unds, = Prudential Preferred, NASDAQ, Navellier, Chrysler Corp., Investor's Business Daily, Chicago Board of Options, PaineWebber, Options Industry Council, Charles Schwab & Co., Rydex Series Trust, Scudder =46unds, Barnes & Noble, Gruntal & Co., Waterhouse Securities, Bank of New York, Muriel Siebert & Co., Inc., National Discount Brokers, Heartland =46unds, IPO= =46inancial Network, =46irst Union, Investment Tracker, California Technology Letter, Needham Investment Management, Guinness =46light, Wealthbuilde= r , Philips Publishing, Dick Davis Digest, Barrons On-Line, Chicago Mercantile Exchange, Barry Kaye Associates, Legg Mason =46unds, Stockbroker Relations, Red Chip Review, Lexington =46unds, The Reserve =46unds, Majestic Management Corp., Allied Capital Corp, Mercantile Bank, Olde Stockbrokers, New Times Securities Services Inc, The No-Load Investor, Vector Vest /Marketsoft, IA=46P, Nicholas-Applegate, Morningstar, Dime Savings Bank, International =46orex, Ltd. & many more... also by coming you have a chance to win a= Chrysler Sebring! To view a complete list of Exhibitors, speakers & more info visit our web site at: http://www.investmentexpo.com Click here! Investment Expo respects your Internet time and online privacy. This is a one-time only invitation, your address will be removed from our files . Thank you! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 17:02:53 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Subject: Re: INDY in '99 The costs for the Indianapolis Conference will be posted once all the speakers are selected. The hotel is the Crowne Plaza Union Station and that cost will be $99.00 per night. Sandi Schroeder Schroeder Indexing Services ---------- : From: MAREA : To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L : Subject: INDY in '99 : Date: Monday, September 14, 1998 4:55 PM : : I just checked out the ASI web page for info about the conference, but I : didn't see anything about the cost. Does anyone know approx. how much the : conference will be, the hotel rates, etc.? : : Thanks! Marea ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:01:13 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jenny Ruhanen Subject: Meeting announcement, ASI Western NY Chapter Hi everyone, The Western New York chapter of the American Society of Indexers is holding its next chapter meeting on October 17, 1998, in Skaneateles, New York. The meeting is open to anyone interested in attending, member or not. Jenny Ruhanen President, Western New York Chapter, American Society of Indexers jruhanen@clarityconnect.com *********************** American Society of Indexers Western New York Chapter Meeting October 17, 1998 Cost Free for ASI members, $5.00 for non-members payable upon arrival. Lunch cost not included. Please R.S.V.P to Jenny Ruhanen by October 2 via email (jruhanen@clarityconnect.com) Agenda 10:00-10:15 Coffee and danishes 10:15-10:45 Larry Edmonson: Using Voice Recognition for Indexing Larry Edmonson's presentation will cover the viability of using voice recognition for indexing against a background of what VR has been and is becoming. I will address the various systems available and their cost & quirks, express my preferences, and touch on what is required to make VR work effectively. 11:00-12:00 Peg Mauer: Embedded Indexing Peg Mauer will give a short presentation about "Embedded Indexing: What is it and How do I do it?" If technology cooperates, this will include a demo on the computer. 12:00-1:15 Lunch at the Sherwood Inn The Sherwood Inn offers a menu that will be sure to please all. Lunch prices range from $3.95 to $15.95, payable by cash or credit card. 1:15-2:00 Chapter business meeting Location: The Sherwood Inn 26 West Genesee St. Skaneateles, NY 13152 TEL. 315-685-3405 / 1-800-3-SHERWOOD / FAX 315-685-8983 General directions: Skaneateles is located southwest of Syracuse on Route 20. >From NY Thruway: take the Weedsport exit, follow Route 34S to Auburn then go east on Route 20, 7 miles to Skaneateles. >From South: Route 81N to Cortland, then Route 41N to Skaneateles Lake then on Route 20 for 1 mile. The Sherwood Inn is located on Genessee Street which is actually Route 20 as it goes through Skaneateles. Look for the large blue building with many windows located across the road from the lake. There is parking in the back or along the street.