Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9908C" ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 15:04:09 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: leading articles in titles of foreign-language works MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please pardon what is probably a silly question, but I'm so exhausted that I'm not thinking straight. Five indexes right now, with four due within the next four days...I've been inputting and editing until I'm brain-numb. Four of the books are short and easy, but nonetheless...) Does the rule about ignoring (not sorting on) leading articles in book titles apply also to foreign-language titles? For example, if the title of a German work begins with "Die," do I sort on "Die" or on the next word? If the title should sort on the next word, this publisher requests that the leading article be removed and placed at the end of the title ("Grapes of Wrath, The). They also want the first letter of each main heading to be capitalized. If I remove the "Die" and put it at the back of the title, do I then capitalize the next word in the title, even though it was not originally capitalized? For example, if the title is something like "Die erweiterte Kinder-Land-Vershickung," would I be right to put "Erweiterte etc., Die"? Thanks for clarifying this point for a very weary indexer, Kara Pekar Wordsmith Indexing Services jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 15:33:59 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: michelle wiseman Subject: Thank you! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Thank you to everyone who responded to my question about Cindex. I didn't know that there was a cindexusers group either, so thank you for letting me know. Take care all! Michelle Wiseman _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 19:01:06 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MXbjr@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Dutch name MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/12/99 1:22:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Carolinediepeveen@COMPUSERVE.COM writes: > As has been noted, it is definitely a Dutch name. Under Dutch filing rules > the name would be filed as: Zand, Willemien van de. However, under > Anglo-saxon filing rules it would be filed as: Van de Zand, Willemien. > > I work in both languages and I would suggest that if the book you are > indexing is meant for an English speaking audience to file under 'Van' > because that is where people expect to find it. My husband's name is Van > Leeuwen and we live in the UK, in the UK phonebook his name is filed under > 'V'. I am of Dutch descent and grew up in a Dutch community in California. We alphabetized the many Vans and Vanders under V; De Jongs under D, etc., within our very non-Anglo-Saxon community. I alphabetize Van Gogh in V, too, even though he's in a European context. Barbara Roos ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 19:01:20 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MXbjr@AOL.COM Subject: Re: leading articles in titles of foreign-language works MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/15/99 12:18:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jkpekar@CROSSLINK.NET writes: > Does the rule about ignoring (not sorting on) leading articles in book > titles apply also to foreign-language titles? For example, if the title of > a German work begins with "Die," do I sort on "Die" or on the next word? > If the title should sort on the next word, this publisher requests that the > leading article be removed and placed at the end of the title ("Grapes of > Wrath, The). They also want the first letter of each main heading to be > capitalized. If I remove the "Die" and put it at the back of the title, do > I then capitalize the next word in the title, even though it was not > originally capitalized? For example, if the title is something like "Die > erweiterte Kinder-Land-Vershickung," would I be right to put "Erweiterte > etc., Die"? Retain Die at the the beginning but sort on the following word. Same with Le, El, and any other foreign language; I do it with English, too. That article at the end is a ridiculously awkward construction. Barbara Roos ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 19:04:09 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MXbjr@AOL.COM Subject: Re: What's your fav email? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/5/99 7:32:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time, JPerlman@aol.com writes: > One thing to know, though. If you need FTP privileges, you can't use AOL to > upload to FTP sites other than the public domain ones they specify. This is > a limitation that is annoying. I am just catching up with a huge pileup in my Index-L folder, so pardon the late response. Maybe I just don't understand the limitation you're referring to, but I send indexes to clients' FTP sites through AOL; I type Keyword FTP, Go to FTP, and Other site, and type in the name of my clients' FTP address. If they require a password, that comes from their end; AOL doesn't stop me in any of this. Maybe I have misunderstood what you mean. Barbara Roos ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 19:15:01 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: le, la, etc. and schedules In-Reply-To: <199908151911.PAA14364@lycanthrope.crosslink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Kara, I remember when you were marketing and waiting for your first job. It wasn't all that long ago, and now look at you!! And who says it's impossible to make a living indexing. All it takes is hard work and a positive attitude. I'm really proud of you, if that isn't overstipping my bounds considering I hardly know you. Die and Le, La, El, etc. are all articles and should be ignored in sorts, and inverted in book titles and stuff. Some of my editors are letting me put book titles in uninverted but still sorted on the first non-article, so that The Cat in the Hat will still show up in the Cs but still be The Cat in the Hat. Has anyone else tried doing this? Not everyone likes the idea. Any thoughts? I think it will confuse most readers so I don't do it too often. Depends on the type of book and the audience. If it helps any, I'm indexing 12-15 hrs a day plus my full time job right now. (My job is on-call and I'm at home unless I'm on a call, in case anyone is wondering how it's possible--it is, that's why I keep my job). It seems like there are a lot of us really swamped right now. Can't wait for the doldrums of Jan-Feb. I've decided that one thing that will help me continue to be an indexer is to stop scheduling projects in the future. From now on I am only going to accept projects that are ready to ship (unless they are irresistable for some reason), and that I know I am available for on the spot. This way I won't have to deal with the humongous headaches and severe anxiety I get when things slip, which they always do. It might mean I miss some assigments, but so be it. I can't cope with projects slamming into each other the way they are doing at me right now. Has anyone else gone to this extreme? Rae Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric racric ICQ 31476947 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 19:56:43 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: le, la, etc. and schedules MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rachel Rice wrote: > Some of my editors are letting me put book titles in uninverted but still > sorted on the first non-article, so that The Cat in the Hat will still show > up in the Cs but still be The Cat in the Hat. Has anyone else tried doing > this? Not everyone likes the idea. Any thoughts? I think it will confuse > most readers so I don't do it too often. Depends on the type of book and > the audience. And the publisher. Some will allow this; others definitely will not. One of my clients has instructed me to invert the article to the end (of the main part of the title; I don't stick them after a subtitle!) Others do not care, as long as I am consistent. Generally, unless I am specifically told to invert them, I leave them in the right order, but don't sort on them (as Rachel and Barbara Roos suggest.) But in this case, I do not have that option; I *have* to invert the articles. Hence my wanting to be sure that the rule is consistent across languages. (BTW -- Thanks, Rae, for the pat on the back!) Kara Pekar Wordsmith Indexing Services jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 20:10:01 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Web site for info on leading articles in titles of foreign-language works Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Go to http://infoshare1.princeton.edu/katmandu/catcopy/article.html for information on initial articles from Princeton U's library cataloging department. These articles are usually ignored in sorting, with the word following the article being the sorted term. Cynthia At 03:04 PM 8/15/99 -0400, John and Kara Pekar wrote: >Does the rule about ignoring (not sorting on) leading articles in book >titles apply also to foreign-language titles? ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen Bertelsen Indexing and Editorial Services Specialities: Food History, Nutrition, Cookbooks, Gastronomy cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.usit.com/cbertel/ Long before institutionalized religions came along--and temples and churches--there was an unquestioned recognition that what goes on in a kitchen is holy. Cooking involves an enormously rich coming together of the fruits of the earth with the inventive genius of the human being. ---Laurel Robertson--- ****************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 22:34:58 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MTOWERY@AOL.COM Subject: Re: le, la, etc. and schedules MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Whenever possible I do not invert thes, as, or ans (just code so it doesn't sort on them), whatever language the title is in. I think it reads better (in the scholarly, run-in indexes that I do). Rachel, on scheduling, I'm just the opposite. I am always so booked (usually about two months ahead) that I seldom can take on a "ready-to-ship" project. The difference may be that the scholarly presses for which I work have relatively little slippage and relatively longer turn-around time than trade or technical presses (and thus a bit more juggling is possible). Personally, I love it when I can look at the next 8-10 weeks and see what's definitely coming in. Tired of Erich Fromm this week? Not to worry, next up is a book on financial fraud, and then back in time to Ancient Israel. Another scheduling difference may be that I index full-time and don't have to juggle another job. Margie Towery ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 05:31:10 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: le, la, etc. and schedules In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Some of my editors are letting me put book titles in uninverted but still >sorted on the first non-article, so that The Cat in the Hat will still show >up in the Cs but still be The Cat in the Hat. Has anyone else tried doing >this? Not everyone likes the idea. Any thoughts? I think it will confuse >most readers so I don't do it too often. Depends on the type of book and >the audience. > The uninverted, not sorting by article is prefered by most of my customers. I prefer it. Why would it be confusing. If folks are looking for _The Cat in the Hat_ in the Cs, _Cat in the Hat, The_ (yuck!) and _The Cat in the Hat_ with "The " ignored in sort will be in the same place. I genuinely believe a title should be entered as the title is (unless the customer requires elsewise). I have just done a catalog for a publisher and they have me drop leading articles. I respect that the copyright holder has that right. Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 23:42:28 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Wyatt Organization: Keyword Editorial Services Subject: Re: le, la, etc. and schedules MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I disagree vehemently with just about everyone who has had anything to say on this thread. Quite apart from the fact that our national indexing standards tell us that "in an English index, articles in titles are conventionally transposed to the end of the heading so that filing order is explicit." Have you ever watched someone trying to find something in an index, or any type of alphabetical list? Research carried out some years back (I can dig out the reference if you wish) indicates that even highly educated people do not know their alpahabet automatically and have to stop and think about it. Consequently, having found the correct initial letter, often by guesswork rather than certainty, they scan up and down for visual clues. Any unexpected initial letter, like a T among the Cs, causes them to stumble for an instant, and the instants add up to frustration. I do not believe that a user cares for a moment whether we have transcribed initial articles correctly or incorrectly, but does care when we appear to have set up stumbling blocks. If you have ever stood in frustration in a polling booth waiting for the attendant to find your name in the roll you will know what non-indexers are up against. Remember that for the ordinary reader even easy indexes are hard to use. Michael Wyatt Keyword Editorial Services 22 Kendall Street, Surry Hills 2010 Australia Phone 0500 539 973 Fax (02) 9331 7785 keyword@ozemail.com.au ----- Original Message ----- From: Pam Rider To: Sent: Monday, 16 August, 1999 5:31 Subject: Re: le, la, etc. and schedules > >Some of my editors are letting me put book titles in uninverted but still > >sorted on the first non-article, so that The Cat in the Hat will still show > >up in the Cs but still be The Cat in the Hat. Has anyone else tried doing > >this? Not everyone likes the idea. Any thoughts? I think it will confuse > >most readers so I don't do it too often. Depends on the type of book and > >the audience. > > > The uninverted, not sorting by article is prefered by most of my customers. > I prefer it. Why would it be confusing. If folks are looking for _The Cat > in the Hat_ in the Cs, _Cat in the Hat, The_ (yuck!) and _The Cat in the > Hat_ with "The " ignored in sort will be in the same place. I genuinely > believe a title should be entered as the title is (unless the customer > requires elsewise). > > I have just done a catalog for a publisher and they have me drop leading > articles. I respect that the copyright holder has that right. > > > Pam Rider > Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth > prider@tsktsk.com > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 11:11:22 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: bankrupt companies In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19990816053110.3b97aed8@pop.electriciti.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" More news on bankrupt companies. The one that I was afraid wouldn't pay me, but then last week they did, and appeared to be going to merge, actually did go bankrupt about 4 days after I got my check. Whew. Since it's now public record, it was Carol Publications, and if any of you didn't get paid, contact me off list as I have a contact you might be able to reach to find out what to do. And I just heard a rumor from a very reliable source of another company that might be going the same way. For those of you who do Judaica, contact me off list and I'll give you that name. It is not a confirmed rumor, but my contact feels it would be best to be careful. Rae Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric racric ICQ 31476947 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 11:14:21 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: le, la, etc. and schedules In-Reply-To: <001f01bee87b$af0c6880$1f906ccb@michaelw> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Michael wrote, >I disagree vehemently with just about everyone who has had anything to say in response to what I had written, which was: > >up in the Cs but still be The Cat in the Hat. Has anyone else tried doing > >this? Not everyone likes the idea. Any thoughts? I think it will confuse > >most readers so I don't do it too often. Depends on the type of book and > >the audience. No need for vehemence, Michael, I brought it up because I'm not sure how I feel about it and wanted to hear other opinions. I believe yours is valid and important. So are, I'm sure, others. Rae Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric racric ICQ 31476947 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 13:04:46 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Judith W. Kip" Subject: Missing author names MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I'm indexing an advice book for parents. In several places in th= e text other books are referred to, but the names of the authors of the referenced books are not given. Neither these books nor their authors ar= e = included in the recommended readings in the back matter. I am sure I ca= n *find* the authors' names, but should I *include* them in the index? = Should I put the author's name in parens after book title, but not as a separate entry. Would that confuse readers who look for the names of authors in the book but can't find them? = I'm interested in knowing how others have handled this problem. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Judith W. Kip Owego, New York 13827 JudithKip@compuserve.com Indexing and Proofreading ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 10:17:45 -0700 Reply-To: jeanmidd@prodigy.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jean Middleton Subject: Re: le, la, etc. and schedules MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As a new indexer, I am quite interested in this thread. Does anyone just drop the article in titles as "Tale of Two Cities"? This is also an option. So far I have heard discussion of either inverting or retaining the leading article. Jean Middleton IndexEmpire Indexing Services Riverside, CA http://www.IndexEmpire.Com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 13:32:07 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Psvenndex@AOL.COM Subject: Article on Freelancers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good Afternoon, Our paper's business page (The Cincinnati Enquirer, August 16, 1999) ran an article from the NY Times. The article "Generation of free-lancers covered" by Abby Ellin mentioned 2 companies that offer insurance and other benefit packages, collection services, etc. for free-lancers. They are Freeagent. com and Aquent. I merely read the article and have no other knowledge about the companies. Pamela Venneman Lighthouse Indexing Services ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 10:31:55 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Halter, Meg" Subject: Re: Thanks, and Thesaurus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hi Homer -- Sorry I took a while to reply. I've been away. The original Roget's is broken into two sections. The front section is organized into broad concepts (speaking from memory; my good Roget's is at home) such as Hate or Humor or Deception. Within each of these concepts are dozens, sometimes hundreds of related words with different shades of meaning and of different degrees of slang. The second part is a huge index. The Roget's II is set up like a dictionary. Under an entry for a word there are a few synonyms or a couple of cross references. The original Roget's offers a wonderful panorama of related words that is missing from Roget's II. -- Meg > -----Original Message----- > From: Homer Ellison [SMTP:advms@MINDSPRING.COM] > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 10:41 AM > To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > Subject: Re: Thanks, and Thesaurus > > Meg, > > I must admit I haven't been a big user of thesauri until fairly recently, > so > I have to ask you to give me more information on the difference between > the > two so I can give you a fair answer. > > Homer > > ----- > Homer Ellison > Advantage Media Solutions > Manuscript services > advms@mindspring.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Halter, Meg > To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > Date: Thursday, August 12, 1999 9:50 AM > Subject: Re: Thanks, and Thesaurus > > > >Is the Roget's Super Thesaurus structured like the original Roget's > >Thesaurus (which I love!) or like Roget's II, which structured like a > >dictionary? > > > >-- Meg > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Homer Ellison [SMTP:advms@MINDSPRING.COM] > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 4:34 PM > >> To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > >> Subject: Re: Thanks, and Thesaurus > >> > >> Debbie, > >> > >> I have Roget's Super Thesaurus and couldn't be happier with it. It > goes > >> way > >> beyond what most thesauruses (thesauri? ...whatever) will give you. > Other > >> people may have other ideas, however. > >> > >> Homer > >> > >> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 11:08:20 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Missing author names Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:04 PM 8/16/99 -0400, Judith W. Kip wrote: > I'm indexing an advice book for parents. In several places in the >text other books are referred to, but the names of the authors of the >referenced books are not given. Neither these books nor their authors are >included in the recommended readings in the back matter. I am sure I can >*find* the authors' names, but should I *include* them in the index? >Should I put the author's name in parens after book title, but not as a >separate entry. Would that confuse readers who look for the names of >authors in the book but can't find them? In a situation like yours, I would index only the titles, and not go looking for author names. If, OTOH, the author's last name is mentioned along with the title, but no first name or initial is available, I'd do a search on Amazon or at the library to get at least some first name identification. Sonsie sconroy@slonet.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 14:26:42 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Missing author names MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree with Sonsie. I wouldn't add information in the index that is not in the book. I feel it is the function of the index to reflect what is in the book, to serve as a guide/pathway into that material. I think adding info that the author has NOT is not the indexer's function. To me, IMHO, that is crossing some invisible boundary line. Just MHO. Janet Perlman SOUTHWEST INDEXING http://www.marisol.com/southwestindexing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 15:14:41 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: Missing author names > I agree with Sonsie. I wouldn't add information in the index that is not > in > the book. I feel it is the function of the index to reflect what is in > the > book, to serve as a guide/pathway into that material. > > I think adding info that the author has NOT is not the indexer's function. > To me, IMHO, that is crossing some invisible boundary line. > > Just MHO. > > Janet Perlman > > Ditto. I would add, however, that it might be worthwhile to call the editor and let them know about the missing information-- the editor might want the author's names included. -- Sharon W. Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 14:30:39 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: The MEGO factor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I'd be interested in hearing how others deal with texts that are less than fascinating reading. I hesitate to use the word "boring" but I've worked on books that invoke the MEGO factor: My Eyes Glaze Over. Perhaps the author has just made the same point, in the same way, for the third time is less than two pages (yes, we got it!!) or has lapsed into the highly distracting use of a favorite word (I once did an index for a book in which I actually began counting the occurrences of the word "discursive") or just seems to ramble along in no discernible direction. The effect these things have on me is that I suddenly remember that I haven't synchronized all the timepieces in the house since the last MEGO book and I'm off to do that or something else--anything else (like writing to Index-L)--that will take me away from the task at hand for 15 minutes or so. (When was the last time I polished the leaves of the philodendrons?) I know this isn't a good way to work. And I know from past experience that I will always manage to finish the index, usually to the accompaniment of praise from the editor who I sense is also glad to see the project nearing an end. Anyone else ever experience this? If so, how do you deal with it? Toothpicks in the eyelids or perhaps licking the terminals of a 9-volt battery to fight off sleep? Disclaimer to all authors and editors on the list: I am not referring to your book. Craig Brown The Last Word Indexing Services (314) 352-9094 lastword@mindspring.com lastword@i1.net www.i1.net/~lastword ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 15:45:50 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MXbjr@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Missing author names MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/16/1999 11:35:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time, JPerlman@aol.com writes: > I think adding info that the author has NOT is not the indexer's function. I second this opinion. Barbara Roos ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 15:58:13 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MXbjr@AOL.COM Subject: Re: le, la, etc. and schedules Comments: To: jeanmidd@prodigy.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/16/1999 10:32:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jeanmidd@PRODIGY.NET writes: > Does anyone just > drop the article in titles as "Tale of Two Cities"? This is also an > option. So far I have heard discussion of either inverting or retaining > the leading article. Yes, for me, dropping the article comes before inverting, though in a foreign language like German, that does not fly. In English, often the text itself doesn't have the article. "Can the reader find the title in the index?" should be the prime question. As for the inverting convention, many conventions need challenging, and IMHO, this is one. If the reader can find it, use whichever mode you believe is best. That said, if the paying entity wants me to index from Z to A, I will do it. If I have the energy at the moment, I may lobby for A to Z, but as far as I'm concerned, it's their book and they can call the shots. Barbara Roos ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:03:32 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: The MEGO factor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Craig, I'm just finishing such a book today (long auditing textbook!). Ergo writing to Index-L instead of working on data entry of last 30 pages of marked page proof. Seriously ...... some projects are like that. They are on subject matter that doesn't "grab" you, they are repetitive, etc. I put myself on a strict reward system. I "chunk" the work. Get done with XX and YY and reward self with ...... (whatever turns you on). It is tedious, but it works. In short, I'm a firm believer in setting goals. I know that to keep on schedule, I MUST get to "here" today, to "there" tomorrow, etc. And I will not fall of my schedule if I can help it! This is not very original. Sorry. I don't know of any way through this situation besides persistence. And trying to remember that they all can't be super-interesting. < "Mamma said there'd be days like this......."> Janet Perlman SOUTHWEST INDEXING http://www.marisol.com/southwestindesing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:08:37 -0400 Reply-To: varney@mindspring.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: J Flenner Subject: Re: The MEGO factor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Craig Brown wrote: > The effect these things have on me is that I suddenly remember that I > haven't synchronized all the timepieces in the house since the last MEGO > book and I'm off to do that or something else--anything else (like > writing to Index-L)--that will take me away from the task at hand for 15 > minutes or so. (When was the last time I polished the leaves of the > philodendrons?) > how do you deal with it? Funny you shld ask! I was just about to take a break from this book and go outside to find some bugs (little beetles in Queen Anne's Lace; ants, but not too big; roly-polys; etc.) to feed to the spider in my bathroom window and her offspring. She's deposited 5 egg cases since July 4 (her 1st one) and 3 have "nova-ed" (that's what they look like to me when the little ones burst forth and can't yet walk). What else do you want to know about spiders? I can recommend this as great break activity!! Jackie F. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:19:59 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Caroline Diepeveen Subject: Re: Dutch name In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-index-l@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > [mailto:owner-index-l@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of MXbjr@AOL.COM > Sent: 16 August 1999 00:01 > To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > Subject: Re: Dutch name > > > > In a message dated 8/12/99 1:22:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Carolinediepeveen@COMPUSERVE.COM writes: > > > As has been noted, it is definitely a Dutch name. Under Dutch > filing rules > > the name would be filed as: Zand, Willemien van de. However, under > > Anglo-saxon filing rules it would be filed as: Van de Zand, Willemien. > > > > I work in both languages and I would suggest that if the book you are > > indexing is meant for an English speaking audience to file under 'Van' > > because that is where people expect to find it. My husband's > name is Van > > Leeuwen and we live in the UK, in the UK phonebook his name is > filed under > > 'V'. > > > I am of Dutch descent and grew up in a Dutch community in California. We > alphabetized the many Vans and Vanders under V; De Jongs under D, etc., > within our very non-Anglo-Saxon community. I alphabetize Van Gogh in V, > too, even though he's in a European context. > > Barbara Roos Dear Barbara, Your community may be very non-Anglo Saxon, but you are living in an Anglo-saxon country and obviously the filing rules of names starting with 'van' that your community uses has been picked up from the surrounding culture. Vincent van Gogh wil never be indexed under V in any Dutch publication, nor will the V be capitalised unless his name appears without his first name or initials. Don't get me wrong, I think it is perfectly OK to follow Anglo-Saxon filing practices for Dutch names in English publications. I do the same when I index Dutch names for an English publication. When indexing a Dutch publication, I follow Dutch filing rules though. I learned them while attending primary school in The Hague. There are so many names in Holland starting with the preposition 'van' that it would just be very unpractical to file these names under their preposition. When trying to find someone's number in the phonebook you would have to spend hours leaving through all the pages with names starting with 'van'. Caroline Diepeveen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:32:15 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: TAHUDOBA@AOL.COM Subject: Re: The MEGO factor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/16/99 2:49:59 PM Central Daylight Time, lastword@MINDSPRING.COM writes: << I'd be interested in hearing how others deal with texts that are less than fascinating reading. I hesitate to use the word "boring" but I've worked on books that invoke the MEGO factor: My Eyes Glaze Over. >> Craig, I do many of the things you mentioned--get up, walk around, get food or drink, take a 10-minute break to do arm exercises. Then, if I still can't get focused, I may jump around in the text--skip a few pages, or perhaps to start on another chapter--and leaving using lots of Post-its to remind me about what I haven't yet covered. And if I still can't focus, well then I may just call it a day and try again tomorrow! Good luck, Terri Hudoba Indexers Plus--indexing, editing, proofreading tahudoba@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:53:06 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Judith W. Kip" Subject: Re: Missing author names MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 My thanks to all who replied. I have queried the editor and from= past experience think she will not want to add the names to the text. In= that case I will not add them either. That was my first hunch, but I couldn't quite believe that the easy answer was the right one this time! Judy Kip ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Judith W. Kip 3 Courtly Circle Owego, New York 13827 JudithKip@compuserve.com Indexing and Proofreading ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 17:34:17 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SHughes512@AOL.COM Subject: Re: The MEGO factor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-08-16 16:14:55 EDT, you write: << I put myself on a strict reward system. I "chunk" the work. Get done with XX and YY and reward self with ...... (whatever turns you on). It is tedious, but it works. >> I'm a great believer in Janet's Rewards system. I'd guess that my breaks come more frequently than other peoples.. but who knows. I type for intensly for 30-40 minutes then break for 15 minutes.. type for 30-40 minutes and switch occupations, from typing to reading or marking for an hour or so, then back to typing. and so on til I meet my goals for the day. I find my back gets really irritable if I type for long stretches and IF I can keep focused, I get a lot done by chopping things into segments. My typical rewards are cups of flavored teas, or cocoa in winter, some loud music, a walk in the garden, or meditating on what life used to be like when I had a "real job" as my mother says. - complete with 150 minutes of commuting time per day. Can housework be a reward? Vacuuming and washing dishes can be a change and the place looks better for a few hours. If I let other things start to intrude I can loose half a day so I tend to get compulsive. When I get one of those repetitive books, I could scream. It makes the entry so difficult to do. Not physically because that doesn't change, but mentally it can be like water torture. I don't find that switching books helps much because I'll spend more time on the pleasant book and avoid the tedious one until I get nervous about deadlines then I'm stuck with it for long stretches anyway. Sorry for rambling. Sharon ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:57:11 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Olason Organization: Indexes & Knowledge Maps Subject: Re: MEGO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Craig, I ride my horse when the MEGO factor takes over. After I come back from my ride, I'm in a very good mood. I have also burned up about 3 hours, so now I'm probably in a crunch mode. Since missing deadlines is never an option, I'm also extremely motivated and focused. Good mode plus crunch mode plus highly motivated and focused equals MEGO book completed in record time! Susan Olason Indexes & Knowledge Maps 11728 Elkhead Range Road Littleton, CO 80127-3706 303-973-5705 or email: oleduke@ix.netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 19:01:59 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MTOWERY@AOL.COM Subject: Re: The MEGO factor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I tend to do what Janet suggests--reward myself with something positive everytime I finish a section or chapter. Interestingly, though, the grief counselor who has been helping Dan and I (she counsels for more than grief) says that you get more motivation from negative reinforcement. So, for instance, if you really wanted to make yourself undertake an exercise program, you could write a check to a political party or cause that you absolutely abhor, and if you don't stick to your schedule, then your partner (or whoever) sends the check off. She says that the psychological research indicates that this negative reinforcement is much more effective. So, maybe if you don't do XX pages per day, you can't have supper???? Margie Towery ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:42:20 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: The MEGO factor In-Reply-To: <199908161931.PAA11008@smtp4.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I take a lot of unscheduled naps. R Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric racric ICQ 31476947 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 20:30:18 -0700 Reply-To: Homer Ellison Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Homer Ellison Subject: Re: Thanks, and Thesaurus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Meg, then the Super Thesaurus is set up like Roget's II. While I can see the usefulness of the original, I like this one because (1) it has more listings (over 400,000) than other thesauri I've seen; and (2) it provides not only a comprehensive listing of synonyms and antonyms for each entry, but also a reverse dictionary, sample sentences (where appropriate), slang/colloquiallisms, cross-references, and notable quotations as synonyms. I'm no salesman for Writer's Digest Books, but I just thought I'd point out that I'm very happy with it. Homer ----- Homer Ellison Advantage Media Solutions Manuscript services advms@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: Halter, Meg To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Date: Monday, August 16, 1999 10:36 AM Subject: Re: Thanks, and Thesaurus >Hi Homer -- > >Sorry I took a while to reply. I've been away. > >The original Roget's is broken into two sections. The front section is >organized into broad concepts (speaking from memory; my good Roget's is at >home) such as Hate or Humor or Deception. Within each of these concepts are >dozens, sometimes hundreds of related words with different shades of meaning >and of different degrees of slang. The second part is a huge index. > >The Roget's II is set up like a dictionary. Under an entry for a word there >are a few synonyms or a couple of cross references. > >The original Roget's offers a wonderful panorama of related words that is >missing from Roget's II. > >-- Meg > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Homer Ellison [SMTP:advms@MINDSPRING.COM] >> Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 10:41 AM >> To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU >> Subject: Re: Thanks, and Thesaurus >> >> Meg, >> >> I must admit I haven't been a big user of thesauri until fairly recently, >> so >> I have to ask you to give me more information on the difference between >> the >> two so I can give you a fair answer. >> >> Homer >> >> ----- >> Homer Ellison >> Advantage Media Solutions >> Manuscript services >> advms@mindspring.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Halter, Meg >> To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU >> Date: Thursday, August 12, 1999 9:50 AM >> Subject: Re: Thanks, and Thesaurus >> >> >> >Is the Roget's Super Thesaurus structured like the original Roget's >> >Thesaurus (which I love!) or like Roget's II, which structured like a >> >dictionary? >> > >> >-- Meg >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Homer Ellison [SMTP:advms@MINDSPRING.COM] >> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 4:34 PM >> >> To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU >> >> Subject: Re: Thanks, and Thesaurus >> >> >> >> Debbie, >> >> >> >> I have Roget's Super Thesaurus and couldn't be happier with it. It >> goes >> >> way >> >> beyond what most thesauruses (thesauri? ...whatever) will give you. >> Other >> >> people may have other ideas, however. >> >> >> >> Homer >> >> >> >> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 00:27:53 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" Subject: Re: The MEGO factor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was having a MEGO moment and decided to read Index-L! My book is not boring but is difficult subject matter, emotionally speaking. I don't know how many books I've done this year on the topic of crimes against humanity, both past (Holocaust, Gulag Archipelago, etc.) and future (coming trends in biological warfare, chemical warfare, with a few nukes thrown in for good measure.) I wasn't expecting anything of the sort in this book (it was easier to tell what was coming when I had one subtitled: "Crimes, Terror, Repression"), but it came up in the section I'm on right now. So.... I'm telling myself to JUST DO IT. I find this helps with both boring books and troublesome topics. The more I take breaks and put it off, the more I have to deal with it, since I'm thinking about it anyway. I try to get as much done as possible and then go for a long walk, water my plants, make something good to eat. With books full of atrocities, I search out my husband and snuggle up to him for a back-to-reality break. I've had so many of these books recently that he knows it when he sees me coming. Today he said, "Oh, it's your book, huh?" and I hadn't even told him the topic yet! Are the rest of the indexers turning down the books on mass crimes against humanity and that's why I'm getting them all?! Part of it is that new sources are coming to light with the opening of former Soviet and East German archives, from what I gather. Anyway, I'll just plug along and reward myself with my next book, a comparatively lighthearted thing about venture capital. Paula Durbin-Westby dwindex@louisa.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:14:20 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Back Words Indexing Subject: Re: Missing author names In-Reply-To: <648715de.24e9b1e2@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I agree with Sonsie. I wouldn't add information in the index that is not in >the book. I feel it is the function of the index to reflect what is in the >book, to serve as a guide/pathway into that material. >I think adding info that the author has NOT is not the indexer's function. >To me, IMHO, that is crossing some invisible boundary line. Hi Janet et al - I prefer your answer, and several books have suggested that an author index especially should consist of simply surnames and initials. But G. Norman Knight, in _Indexing, the Art of_ has a charming way of suggesting the opposite: he says we must "bestir ourselves" to locate the full names of indexable people. It's almost worth doing the research if I can tell people that I "bestirred myself" to do it - Martha Osgood Back Words Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 00:42:12 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Missing author names MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Martha, I have no problem with completing a name that is already in the book. Yes, one must sometimes "bestir" oneself. What I think is crossing the line is to find the author and put that info into the index, when the author isn't mentioned at all in the text, and just a book title was given. I don't think we as indexers should be adding original material. We should be providing entry to what is already in the text of the book. I hope that clarifies what I meant. Janet Perlman SOUTHWEST INDEXING ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 08:35:48 -0400 Reply-To: pobe@worldnet.att.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Stephen Pober Subject: Missing author names, variation on a theme MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all, In editing and indexing a bibliography of American geological literature, I discovered the following. This bibliography includes hundreds of items that appeared in 19th century foreign journals (mostly French and German), and were abstracted by American journals. Most, if not all, of the authors abstracted are cited by surname and first initial. The first initial is invariably "M." I believe this stand for "monsieur." Using the LOC name authority files (I do not have access to RLIN), and the Dictionary of Scientific Biography, I have been able to identify a number of authors. None of them had first names beginning with "M." However, a number of authors never wrote a book, or were not famous enough to be included in DSB. My question is twofold: (1) Is there any source that will give me information on minor 19th scientists which includes a list of their journal articles? The abstracted articles are identified by journal name only, so I cannot check the originals. (2) If I am unable to determine an author's first name how do I handle indexing them? Do I include the "M," but add a note explaining the problem. Or do I leave out the initial altogether? Has anyone experienced this problem? Hopefully, Stephen E. Pober Pober Publishing Staten Island, NY 10301 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:13:48 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Maria Coughlin Subject: Re: MEGO In-Reply-To: <199908170408.AAA01841@bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Craig, My favorite reward for the MEGO projects is...appliances!! Finished that 3,000-page book on the gastrointestinal tract (the intestines are very, very long!)...a Kitchen-Aid mixer, on sale at K-Mart! The book on heart failure...a blender!! The book on child abuse (which nearly broke my heart)...a food processor!! My kitchen is a showplace! One of my indexing students, viewing all the glistening hardware, asked me if I actually used it. I had to admit, I don't know how. I haven't had time to learn, I'm too busy indexing! (She stifled her laughter when I said I hadn't had time to watch the video that shows me how to use the food processor.) I didn't want to tell her that reading about the gastrointestinal tract can put you off your food anyway. At one time or another, every indexer faces a particularly boring or difficult text, and, as the various MEGO responses show, the motivation to complete the index usually has to be external to the project. Nowadays, I'm doing foster care for the SPCA. When I finish a particularly dull chapter, my reward is to go play with the 7 orphaned kittens I'm fostering. They've gotten to the stage where they run around in gangs, stalk everything, and love to attack my ankles. As I slather antibiotic cream on my bleeding ankles, I wonder if visiting the kittens is positive or negative reinforcement. Maria ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:41:38 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: MEGO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maria wrote: > My favorite reward for the MEGO projects is...appliances!! > Finished that 3,000-page book on the gastrointestinal tract (the > intestines are very, very long!)...a Kitchen-Aid mixer, on sale at > K-Mart! The book on heart failure...a blender!! The book on > child abuse (which nearly broke my heart)...a food processor!! > > My kitchen is a showplace! One of my indexing students, viewing > all the glistening hardware, asked me if I actually used it. > I had to admit, I don't know how. I haven't had time to > learn, I'm too busy indexing! (She stifled her laughter when I > said I hadn't had time to watch the video that shows me how to use > the food processor.) I didn't want to tell her that reading > about the gastrointestinal tract can put you off your food anyway. One of my favorite rewards is fabric and patterns. My craft area is full of them, most of the projects unstarted. I've got fabric for doll clothes, for sofa throw pillows, for dresses for my daughter, for tea cozies (I occasionally sell these), for Christmas presents... I have the same problem that Maria does -- I'm so busy indexing (and taking care of my family) that I have no time to *use* the stuff I buy! My husband has just about lost patience; he insists that the sofa pillows get made before any more fabric comes into the house. Another favorite reward is a trip to Amazon.com. New books, especially by a favorite author, make a great reward. And since I'm a fast reader, I can usually find enough little bits of time to finish the book. :-D Kara Pekar Wordsmith Indexing Services jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 11:41:31 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: magnetix@IX.NETCOM.COM Subject: What is INDEX-L's correct address? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I was using the address: INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU . As far as I can tell, this was working. However, on Aug. 13 I sent two short articles (one on ship names, one on Van filing), and it doesn't look as if they ever got through. I get the list's mail in Digest form, by the way, don't know if this makes a difference. Hoping somebody (like the listmaster) will advise. magnetix@ix.netcom.com Peter Rooney magnetix@ix.netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:13:42 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Organization: Binghamton University Subject: Re: What is INDEX-L's correct address? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The new address for index-l is INDEX-L@LISTSERV.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU Charlotte Skuster index-l moderator magnetix@IX.NETCOM.COM wrote: > I was using the address: INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU . > As far as I can tell, this was working. However, on Aug. 13 > I sent two short articles (one on ship names, one on Van > filing), and it doesn't look as if they ever got through. > I get the list's mail in Digest form, by the way, don't > know if this makes a difference. > Hoping somebody (like the listmaster) will advise. > magnetix@ix.netcom.com > > Peter Rooney > magnetix@ix.netcom.com -- Charlotte Skuster Science Reference/Health Science Bibliographer Binghamton University Science Library P. O. Box 6012 Binghamton, NY 13902-6012 Phone: (607) 777-4122 Fax: (607) 777-2274 skuster@binghamton.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:59:20 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" Subject: Germany MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have two questions about German unification. 1. Two eras in German history are referred to as periods of unification. The first happened at the time of the Weimar Republic, the second after the fall of the Berlin Wall. Both are discussed in my book. Sometimes the post-Berlin Wall unification is referred to as "reunification", but at other times as "unification." Is one term more correct than the other? ("reunification" vs. "unification") If Reunification applies only to the post-Berlin Wall era, I could have: Unification (Weimar Republic {or dates}). See also Reunification or if not, Unification (Weimar Republic) Unification (post-Berlin Wall) or (German Federal Republic) 2. Just making absolutely sure: the reunited Germany is now called the German Federal Republic, is it not? (The FRG is the old West Germany, and the GDR is the old East Germany, of course.) Paula Durbin-Westby Indexing dwindex@louisa.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:30:00 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: NANCY WILLIAMSON Subject: ISKO6 Call for papers Comments: To: listserv@asis.org, jesse@mailhost.cas.utk.edu Dear colleagues, Below is a follow-up notice and reminder of the call for papers for the 6th International Conference of ISKO. Information on the conference itself - registration, accomodation, etc.- will be sent out in September. Please forward this message to other list serves as you see appropriate. Apologies for any duplication that may occur. Nancy Williamson, Conference Chair ------ Forwarded Message Follows -- - - - - - Priority: normal Date sent: Thu, 20 May 1999 15:15:08 -0500 Send reply to: "ASIS-L: American Society for Information Science" , NANCY WILLIAMSON From: NANCY WILLIAMSON Subject: ISKO6 Call for papers To: ASIS-L@asis.lib.indiana.edu International Society for Knowledge Organization Sixth International ISKO Conference Call for Papers The International Society for Knowledge Organization (ISKO) will conduct its 6th International Conference (ISKO 6) in Toronto, Canada, July 10-13, 2000. The theme of the conference is: Dynamism and Stability in Knowledge Organization Papers addressing Dynamism and Stability in Knowledge Organization from any of the following interrelated perspectives are invited: Cognitive and Linguistic Foundations Theories of Knowledge and Knowledge Organization Information Policies and Management of Knowledge Structures Information Systems: Concepts, Design and Implementation Culture, Language and Communication in Knowledge Organization Knowledge Organization of Universal and Special Systems Global Users and Uses of Knowledge and Knowledge Organization New Information Technologies for Knowledge Organization Theoreticians, researchers and practitioners involved in knowledge organization are invited to submit abstracts of between 500 and 1000 words by September 30, 1999 to Professor Clare Beghtol, Programme Chair (see contact information below; electronic submissions welcome; please include ISKO in the subject line). In preparing your abstract please relate your topic to the theme of the conference and indicate the category above to which you believe your paper belongs. An international programme committee will review the papers, and authors will be notified of decisions by December 1, 1999. The deadline for submission of papers for the printed conference proceedings will be March 1, 2000. Venue of the conference: Faculty of Information Studies, University of Toronto, Toronto, Canada Conference Chair: Nancy Williamson Programme Chair: Clare Beghtol Mailing address: Faculty of Information Studies, University of Toronto, 140 St. George Street, Toronto, Canada M5S 3G6 FAX: +1 416 971 1399 e-mail: isko@fis.utoronto.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 14:09:55 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: Germany MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > 1. Two eras in German history are referred to as periods of unification. > The first happened at the time of the Weimar Republic, the second after the > fall of the Berlin Wall. Both are discussed in my book. Sometimes the > post-Berlin Wall unification is referred to as "reunification", but at > other times as "unification." > > Is one term more correct than the other? ("reunification" vs. > "unification") I believe "reunification" is more commonly used when referring to the recent unification of the countries of East and West Germany. Makes sense, since they were one, became two, and were then made one again. Kara Pekar Wordsmith Indexing Services jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 14:58:34 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Organization: Binghamton University Subject: [Fwd: What is INDEX-L's correct address?] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom, et al Good grief!! This is not trivial. My brain is having a hard time getting off of automatic pilot. The correct address is INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Thanks for catching my error! Charlotte Tom Brown wrote: > Hi Charlotte, > > This may be trivial, but I noticed that the address you gave in your > message differs slightly from what appears in the "Reply to" header of > the message as follows: > INDEX-L@LISTSERV.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU > INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > Are the two interchangeable? > > Best regards, > ____ > /om tombrown@mint.net > PO Box 473, Pittsfield, ME 04967 > (207) 487-4926 -- Charlotte Skuster Science Reference/Health Science Bibliographer Binghamton University Science Library P. O. Box 6012 Binghamton, NY 13902-6012 Phone: (607) 777-4122 Fax: (607) 777-2274 skuster@binghamton.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 12:05:40 -0700 Reply-To: nkoenig Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: nkoenig Subject: Re: Germany MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have never heard "German reunification" used to refer to any period other than the post-Berlin Wall era. Since all reunifications are unifications, use of "German unification" to refer to this era is understandable. I have to say though that I have usually run across references to German unification in discussions of the period between (roughly) 1864-1871, during which a single German nation-state was formed under Prussian hegemony (I love that word). Nick Koenig >I have two questions about German unification. > >1. Two eras in German history are referred to as periods of unification. >The first happened at the time of the Weimar Republic, the second after the >fall of the Berlin Wall. Both are discussed in my book. Sometimes the >post-Berlin Wall unification is referred to as "reunification", but at >other times as "unification." > >Is one term more correct than the other? ("reunification" vs. >"unification") > >If Reunification applies only to the post-Berlin Wall era, I could have: > >Unification (Weimar Republic {or dates}). See also Reunification > >or if not, > >Unification (Weimar Republic) > >Unification (post-Berlin Wall) or (German Federal Republic) > >2. Just making absolutely sure: the reunited Germany is now called the >German Federal Republic, is it not? (The FRG is the old West Germany, and >the GDR is the old East Germany, of course.) > >Paula Durbin-Westby >Indexing >dwindex@louisa.net > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 15:37:48 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" Subject: Germany and unification MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OK, now I have my dates striaght, and it looks to me as though the preference is to call the 1871 unifcation just that, and the recent reunification just that. So, unless I hear otherwise from historians on the list I will probably use "Unification" and "Reunification." Paula Durbin-Westby dwindex@louisa.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 19:37:47 GMT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Andrea Doria Subject: Re: Ashtabula? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed ASH TAAAA BEUUUU LAH!! _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 19:43:44 GMT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Andrea Doria Subject: Re: What do I charge? Where did I go wrong? (long) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_475fedbd_10fcd8f2$73aea26b" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_475fedbd_10fcd8f2$73aea26b Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_11bde2d2_10fcd8f2$73aea26b" ------=_NextPart_001_11bde2d2_10fcd8f2$73aea26b Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Apologies for this late posting; I've been on vacation! Anyway, I always have everything set out in writing. Don't work without a contract. Stipulate in the contract that material must be delivered in enough time to work on it. NO last minute scrambling. You should talk to an attorney who knows contract law (not just the concept but one who writes contracts). I am sure there are also books on how to write a contract; check amazon.com; their search engine is superb. Like, never swing on a trapeze without a net; never go into book indexing without a contract! Regards, _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------=_NextPart_001_11bde2d2_10fcd8f2$73aea26b Content-type: text/html
                            
Apologies for this late posting; I've been on vacation!

Anyway, I always have everything set out in writing.  Don't work without a contract.  Stipulate in the contract that material must be delivered in enough time to work on it.  NO last minute scrambling.

You should talk to an attorney who knows contract law (not just the concept but one who writes contracts).  I am sure there are also books on how to write a contract; check amazon.com; their search engine is superb.

Like, never swing on a trapeze without a net; never go into book indexing without a contract!

Regards,

Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit www.msn.com
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Where did I go wrong? (long) Comments: To: advms@mindspring.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_50c053b3_102f4fce$5089c80f" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_50c053b3_102f4fce$5089c80f Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_3102f13d_102f4fce$5089c80f" ------=_NextPart_001_3102f13d_102f4fce$5089c80f Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Again, sorry for the late reply; on vacation. This "advice" from H. Ellison is good, but if there is no written contract, it would not hold up in small claims court (maybe; unless you got Wapner but he's doing animals right now) ... anyhoo, the advantage you have is, nobody else is doing the index. Make them wait. If they want it they will have to wait. They may not ask you to do anything again, but then who would want to work for them? Good luck ... keep on indexing! Regards, _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------=_NextPart_001_3102f13d_102f4fce$5089c80f Content-type: text/html
                            
Again, sorry for the late reply; on vacation.

This "advice" from H. Ellison is good, but if there is no written contract, it would not hold up in small claims court (maybe; unless you got Wapner but he's doing animals right now) ...

anyhoo, the advantage you have is, nobody else is doing the index.  Make them wait.  If they want it they will have to wait.

They may not ask you to do anything again, but then who would want to work for them?

Good luck ... keep on indexing!

Regards,

Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit www.msn.com
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Problem? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:32:24 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John Posada Subject: Re: What do I charge? Where did I go wrong? (long) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii "Never let go of one vine until you have a solid hold of the next." (The Tarzan-rule of data processing, usually applies to when you are upgrading from one version of a mission criticial application to the next) > Like, never swing on a trapeze without a net; never > go into book indexing > without a contract! > === John Posada, Merck Research Laboratories Sr Technical Writer, WinHelp and html (work) john_posada@merck.com (pers) jposada01@yahoo.com 732-594-0873 _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:13:45 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Iris B. Ailin-Pyzik" Subject: Contract survey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OK, we've started this discussion about Like, never swing on a trapeze without a net; never go into book indexing without a contract! If we'd like a tally of how many of us use written contracts as a matter of course, let's see if I can act as the voting box. Please reply as follows: REPLY PRIVATELY to this message, to mailto:ibap@crystalsys.com with "contract survey" as the subject. Indicate if you ALWAYS use a written contract, SOMETIMES use a written contract, NEVER have used a written contract. If sometimes, is it for past problem children or new contacts? Indicate how long (years) you have been indexing, whether you are making a living at this, trying to make a living at this, whether you work part-time at another paying job while trying to grow your indexing business, or whether you work part-time at this and aren't trying to make it a living. I'll let this go about a week and see if I can come up with some results. Iris ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 14:58:33 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: MEGO In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990817101348.00a77b50@mailhost.annap.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" OK, I know this is OT and most of you hate cat chat, but Maria mentioned foster care, and I'm fostering a mama and 4 kittens and I know of at least 2 others. I take a lot of kitten breaks, and I do some work in the kitten room when I can, but they tend to be distracting. Just curious how many others are fostering. Please respond off list to avoid a barrage of flame mail. R Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric racric ICQ 31476947 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 18:30:24 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: Contract survey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Iris wrote, > Indicate > how long (years) you have been indexing, > whether you are making a living at this, > trying to make a living at this, > whether you work part-time at another paying job while trying to grow > your indexing business, or > whether you work part-time at this and aren't trying to make it a > living. I was somewhat disturbed by the tone of the last option on this list. I'm sure Iris did not mean it to sound demeaning, but it could easily be interpreted that way. Phrased as it is, "you work part-time at this and aren't trying to make it a living" sounds as though if one isn't either a full-timer or aspiring to be, one is just "playing at" indexing. I suspect what Iris meant was, "indexing part-time by choice" -- a very different matter. Part-time indexers who do not have another paying job are likely to be either retirees supplementing their income or full-time parents who index because it allows them to make a decent part-time income while remaining home with their children. The income thus earned, far from being supplemental, is often a necessary part of the family's or individual's finances. Part-timers-by-choice don't necessarily work any less hard at indexing than full-timers do. They just take fewer or shorter-length projects. They tend, in my experience, to be every bit as professional as a full-time indexer. Normally, I would have taken this up only with the person who wrote it -- and I certainly do not mean to single Iris out. But I certainly run into the attitude of "You work part-time at home? Oh, you're earning pin money/you're just playing at it" outside the indexing community, and I would hate to start running into the same attitude within the indexing community. So far, I am pleased to say, most indexers are quite understanding of the fact that some of us work part-time and that we are still professionals. I've been quite amazed by the degree of support indexers have for one another, no matter what their relative circumstances. Still, I thought it might not come amiss to air the issue at this time. (In case you're wondering, I fall into the "full-time parent/part-time indexer" category. I work part-time because we rely on my income as well as my husband's. I was lucky enough to discover indexing, which I enjoy, and which pays far better than the job opportunities available to me in the rural community where I live.) Kara Pekar Wordsmith Indexing Services jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 18:49:25 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Willa MacAllen Subject: Re: Contract survey In-Reply-To: <199908172241.SAA07078@lycanthrope.crosslink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All: Part-time indexers who do not have another paying job >are likely to be either retirees supplementing their income or full-time >parents who index because it allows them to make a decent part-time income >while remaining home with their children. The income thus earned, far from >being supplemental, is often a necessary part of the family's or >individual's finances. Part-timers-by-choice don't necessarily work any >less hard at indexing than full-timers do. They just take fewer or >shorter-length projects. They tend, in my experience, to be every bit as >professional as a full-time indexer. There is a 3rd category for part-timers here. Some of us are working part-time because a job has been terminated and we have been forced to market for indexing full-time. But we are still in that part-time category until we can build a large enough client base to be indexing full time. Willa (envious of those who doesn't have to spend 2/3rds of their time marketing.....) Willa MacAllen Information Organizer MacAllen's Information Services Boston ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 16:27:49 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Harris, Susan L" Subject: Re: INDEX-L Digest - 15 Aug 1999 to 16 Aug 1999 (#1999-18) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" FYI On the listserv ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 13:32:07 EDT From: Psvenndex@AOL.COM Subject: Article on Freelancers Good Afternoon, Our paper's business page (The Cincinnati Enquirer, August 16, 1999) ran an article from the NY Times. The article "Generation of free-lancers covered" by Abby Ellin mentioned 2 companies that offer insurance and other benefit packages, collection services, etc. for free-lancers. They are Freeagent. com and Aquent. I merely read the article and have no other knowledge about the companies. Pamela Venneman Lighthouse Indexing Services ------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 16:30:50 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Harris, Susan L" Subject: Re: INDEX-L Digest - 15 Aug 1999 to 16 Aug 1999 (#1999-18) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" My apologies. I clicked reply & send when I intended forward & send. Please forgive. Susan Susan L Harris Technical Writer/Editor HESD/ESG 253.371.8339 MS: DP2-416 -----Original Message----- From: Automatic digest processor [mailto:LISTSERV@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU] Sent: Monday, August 16, 1999 9:00 PM To: Recipients of INDEX-L digests Subject: INDEX-L Digest - 15 Aug 1999 to 16 Aug 1999 (#1999-18) There are 25 messages totalling 922 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. le, la, etc. and schedules (5) 2. bankrupt companies 3. Missing author names (6) 4. Article on Freelancers 5. Thanks, and Thesaurus (2) 6. The MEGO factor (8) 7. Dutch name 8. MEGO ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 05:31:10 -0700 From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: le, la, etc. and schedules >Some of my editors are letting me put book titles in uninverted but still >sorted on the first non-article, so that The Cat in the Hat will still show >up in the Cs but still be The Cat in the Hat. Has anyone else tried doing >this? Not everyone likes the idea. Any thoughts? I think it will confuse >most readers so I don't do it too often. Depends on the type of book and >the audience. > The uninverted, not sorting by article is prefered by most of my customers. I prefer it. Why would it be confusing. If folks are looking for _The Cat in the Hat_ in the Cs, _Cat in the Hat, The_ (yuck!) and _The Cat in the Hat_ with "The " ignored in sort will be in the same place. I genuinely believe a title should be entered as the title is (unless the customer requires elsewise). I have just done a catalog for a publisher and they have me drop leading articles. I respect that the copyright holder has that right. Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@tsktsk.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 23:42:28 -0700 From: Michael Wyatt Subject: Re: le, la, etc. and schedules I disagree vehemently with just about everyone who has had anything to say on this thread. Quite apart from the fact that our national indexing standards tell us that "in an English index, articles in titles are conventionally transposed to the end of the heading so that filing order is explicit." Have you ever watched someone trying to find something in an index, or any type of alphabetical list? Research carried out some years back (I can dig out the reference if you wish) indicates that even highly educated people do not know their alpahabet automatically and have to stop and think about it. Consequently, having found the correct initial letter, often by guesswork rather than certainty, they scan up and down for visual clues. Any unexpected initial letter, like a T among the Cs, causes them to stumble for an instant, and the instants add up to frustration. I do not believe that a user cares for a moment whether we have transcribed initial articles correctly or incorrectly, but does care when we appear to have set up stumbling blocks. If you have ever stood in frustration in a polling booth waiting for the attendant to find your name in the roll you will know what non-indexers are up against. Remember that for the ordinary reader even easy indexes are hard to use. Michael Wyatt Keyword Editorial Services 22 Kendall Street, Surry Hills 2010 Australia Phone 0500 539 973 Fax (02) 9331 7785 keyword@ozemail.com.au ----- Original Message ----- From: Pam Rider To: Sent: Monday, 16 August, 1999 5:31 Subject: Re: le, la, etc. and schedules > >Some of my editors are letting me put book titles in uninverted but still > >sorted on the first non-article, so that The Cat in the Hat will still show > >up in the Cs but still be The Cat in the Hat. Has anyone else tried doing > >this? Not everyone likes the idea. Any thoughts? I think it will confuse > >most readers so I don't do it too often. Depends on the type of book and > >the audience. > > > The uninverted, not sorting by article is prefered by most of my customers. > I prefer it. Why would it be confusing. If folks are looking for _The Cat > in the Hat_ in the Cs, _Cat in the Hat, The_ (yuck!) and _The Cat in the > Hat_ with "The " ignored in sort will be in the same place. I genuinely > believe a title should be entered as the title is (unless the customer > requires elsewise). > > I have just done a catalog for a publisher and they have me drop leading > articles. I respect that the copyright holder has that right. > > > Pam Rider > Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth > prider@tsktsk.com > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 11:11:22 -0400 From: Rachel Rice Subject: bankrupt companies More news on bankrupt companies. The one that I was afraid wouldn't pay me, but then last week they did, and appeared to be going to merge, actually did go bankrupt about 4 days after I got my check. Whew. Since it's now public record, it was Carol Publications, and if any of you didn't get paid, contact me off list as I have a contact you might be able to reach to find out what to do. And I just heard a rumor from a very reliable source of another company that might be going the same way. For those of you who do Judaica, contact me off list and I'll give you that name. It is not a confirmed rumor, but my contact feels it would be best to be careful. Rae Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric racric ICQ 31476947 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 11:14:21 -0400 From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: le, la, etc. and schedules Michael wrote, >I disagree vehemently with just about everyone who has had anything to say in response to what I had written, which was: > >up in the Cs but still be The Cat in the Hat. Has anyone else tried doing > >this? Not everyone likes the idea. Any thoughts? I think it will confuse > >most readers so I don't do it too often. Depends on the type of book and > >the audience. No need for vehemence, Michael, I brought it up because I'm not sure how I feel about it and wanted to hear other opinions. I believe yours is valid and important. So are, I'm sure, others. Rae Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric racric ICQ 31476947 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 13:04:46 -0400 From: "Judith W. Kip" Subject: Missing author names I'm indexing an advice book for parents. In several places in th= e text other books are referred to, but the names of the authors of the referenced books are not given. Neither these books nor their authors ar= e = included in the recommended readings in the back matter. I am sure I ca= n *find* the authors' names, but should I *include* them in the index? = Should I put the author's name in parens after book title, but not as a separate entry. Would that confuse readers who look for the names of authors in the book but can't find them? = I'm interested in knowing how others have handled this problem. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Judith W. Kip Owego, New York 13827 JudithKip@compuserve.com Indexing and Proofreading ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 10:17:45 -0700 From: Jean Middleton Subject: Re: le, la, etc. and schedules As a new indexer, I am quite interested in this thread. Does anyone just drop the article in titles as "Tale of Two Cities"? This is also an option. So far I have heard discussion of either inverting or retaining the leading article. Jean Middleton IndexEmpire Indexing Services Riverside, CA http://www.IndexEmpire.Com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 13:32:07 EDT From: Psvenndex@AOL.COM Subject: Article on Freelancers Good Afternoon, Our paper's business page (The Cincinnati Enquirer, August 16, 1999) ran an article from the NY Times. The article "Generation of free-lancers covered" by Abby Ellin mentioned 2 companies that offer insurance and other benefit packages, collection services, etc. for free-lancers. They are Freeagent. com and Aquent. I merely read the article and have no other knowledge about the companies. Pamela Venneman Lighthouse Indexing Services ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 10:31:55 -0700 From: "Halter, Meg" Subject: Re: Thanks, and Thesaurus Hi Homer -- Sorry I took a while to reply. I've been away. The original Roget's is broken into two sections. The front section is organized into broad concepts (speaking from memory; my good Roget's is at home) such as Hate or Humor or Deception. Within each of these concepts are dozens, sometimes hundreds of related words with different shades of meaning and of different degrees of slang. The second part is a huge index. The Roget's II is set up like a dictionary. Under an entry for a word there are a few synonyms or a couple of cross references. The original Roget's offers a wonderful panorama of related words that is missing from Roget's II. -- Meg > -----Original Message----- > From: Homer Ellison [SMTP:advms@MINDSPRING.COM] > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 10:41 AM > To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > Subject: Re: Thanks, and Thesaurus > > Meg, > > I must admit I haven't been a big user of thesauri until fairly recently, > so > I have to ask you to give me more information on the difference between > the > two so I can give you a fair answer. > > Homer > > ----- > Homer Ellison > Advantage Media Solutions > Manuscript services > advms@mindspring.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Halter, Meg > To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > Date: Thursday, August 12, 1999 9:50 AM > Subject: Re: Thanks, and Thesaurus > > > >Is the Roget's Super Thesaurus structured like the original Roget's > >Thesaurus (which I love!) or like Roget's II, which structured like a > >dictionary? > > > >-- Meg > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Homer Ellison [SMTP:advms@MINDSPRING.COM] > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 4:34 PM > >> To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > >> Subject: Re: Thanks, and Thesaurus > >> > >> Debbie, > >> > >> I have Roget's Super Thesaurus and couldn't be happier with it. It > goes > >> way > >> beyond what most thesauruses (thesauri? ...whatever) will give you. > Other > >> people may have other ideas, however. > >> > >> Homer > >> > >> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 11:08:20 -0700 From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Missing author names At 01:04 PM 8/16/99 -0400, Judith W. Kip wrote: > I'm indexing an advice book for parents. In several places in the >text other books are referred to, but the names of the authors of the >referenced books are not given. Neither these books nor their authors are >included in the recommended readings in the back matter. I am sure I can >*find* the authors' names, but should I *include* them in the index? >Should I put the author's name in parens after book title, but not as a >separate entry. Would that confuse readers who look for the names of >authors in the book but can't find them? In a situation like yours, I would index only the titles, and not go looking for author names. If, OTOH, the author's last name is mentioned along with the title, but no first name or initial is available, I'd do a search on Amazon or at the library to get at least some first name identification. Sonsie sconroy@slonet.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 14:26:42 EDT From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Missing author names I agree with Sonsie. I wouldn't add information in the index that is not in the book. I feel it is the function of the index to reflect what is in the book, to serve as a guide/pathway into that material. I think adding info that the author has NOT is not the indexer's function. To me, IMHO, that is crossing some invisible boundary line. Just MHO. Janet Perlman SOUTHWEST INDEXING http://www.marisol.com/southwestindexing ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 15:14:41 -0400 From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: Missing author names > I agree with Sonsie. I wouldn't add information in the index that is not > in > the book. I feel it is the function of the index to reflect what is in > the > book, to serve as a guide/pathway into that material. > > I think adding info that the author has NOT is not the indexer's function. > To me, IMHO, that is crossing some invisible boundary line. > > Just MHO. > > Janet Perlman > > Ditto. I would add, however, that it might be worthwhile to call the editor and let them know about the missing information-- the editor might want the author's names included. -- Sharon W. Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 14:30:39 -0500 From: Craig Brown Subject: The MEGO factor I'd be interested in hearing how others deal with texts that are less than fascinating reading. I hesitate to use the word "boring" but I've worked on books that invoke the MEGO factor: My Eyes Glaze Over. Perhaps the author has just made the same point, in the same way, for the third time is less than two pages (yes, we got it!!) or has lapsed into the highly distracting use of a favorite word (I once did an index for a book in which I actually began counting the occurrences of the word "discursive") or just seems to ramble along in no discernible direction. The effect these things have on me is that I suddenly remember that I haven't synchronized all the timepieces in the house since the last MEGO book and I'm off to do that or something else--anything else (like writing to Index-L)--that will take me away from the task at hand for 15 minutes or so. (When was the last time I polished the leaves of the philodendrons?) I know this isn't a good way to work. And I know from past experience that I will always manage to finish the index, usually to the accompaniment of praise from the editor who I sense is also glad to see the project nearing an end. Anyone else ever experience this? If so, how do you deal with it? Toothpicks in the eyelids or perhaps licking the terminals of a 9-volt battery to fight off sleep? Disclaimer to all authors and editors on the list: I am not referring to your book. Craig Brown The Last Word Indexing Services (314) 352-9094 lastword@mindspring.com lastword@i1.net www.i1.net/~lastword ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 15:45:50 EDT From: MXbjr@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Missing author names In a message dated 8/16/1999 11:35:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time, JPerlman@aol.com writes: > I think adding info that the author has NOT is not the indexer's function. I second this opinion. Barbara Roos ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 15:58:13 EDT From: MXbjr@AOL.COM Subject: Re: le, la, etc. and schedules In a message dated 8/16/1999 10:32:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jeanmidd@PRODIGY.NET writes: > Does anyone just > drop the article in titles as "Tale of Two Cities"? This is also an > option. So far I have heard discussion of either inverting or retaining > the leading article. Yes, for me, dropping the article comes before inverting, though in a foreign language like German, that does not fly. In English, often the text itself doesn't have the article. "Can the reader find the title in the index?" should be the prime question. As for the inverting convention, many conventions need challenging, and IMHO, this is one. If the reader can find it, use whichever mode you believe is best. That said, if the paying entity wants me to index from Z to A, I will do it. If I have the energy at the moment, I may lobby for A to Z, but as far as I'm concerned, it's their book and they can call the shots. Barbara Roos ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:03:32 EDT From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: The MEGO factor Craig, I'm just finishing such a book today (long auditing textbook!). Ergo writing to Index-L instead of working on data entry of last 30 pages of marked page proof. Seriously ...... some projects are like that. They are on subject matter that doesn't "grab" you, they are repetitive, etc. I put myself on a strict reward system. I "chunk" the work. Get done with XX and YY and reward self with ...... (whatever turns you on). It is tedious, but it works. In short, I'm a firm believer in setting goals. I know that to keep on schedule, I MUST get to "here" today, to "there" tomorrow, etc. And I will not fall of my schedule if I can help it! This is not very original. Sorry. I don't know of any way through this situation besides persistence. And trying to remember that they all can't be super-interesting. < "Mamma said there'd be days like this......."> Janet Perlman SOUTHWEST INDEXING http://www.marisol.com/southwestindesing ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:08:37 -0400 From: J Flenner Subject: Re: The MEGO factor Craig Brown wrote: > The effect these things have on me is that I suddenly remember that I > haven't synchronized all the timepieces in the house since the last MEGO > book and I'm off to do that or something else--anything else (like > writing to Index-L)--that will take me away from the task at hand for 15 > minutes or so. (When was the last time I polished the leaves of the > philodendrons?) > how do you deal with it? Funny you shld ask! I was just about to take a break from this book and go outside to find some bugs (little beetles in Queen Anne's Lace; ants, but not too big; roly-polys; etc.) to feed to the spider in my bathroom window and her offspring. She's deposited 5 egg cases since July 4 (her 1st one) and 3 have "nova-ed" (that's what they look like to me when the little ones burst forth and can't yet walk). What else do you want to know about spiders? I can recommend this as great break activity!! Jackie F. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:19:59 +0100 From: Caroline Diepeveen Subject: Re: Dutch name > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-index-l@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > [mailto:owner-index-l@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of MXbjr@AOL.COM > Sent: 16 August 1999 00:01 > To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > Subject: Re: Dutch name > > > > In a message dated 8/12/99 1:22:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Carolinediepeveen@COMPUSERVE.COM writes: > > > As has been noted, it is definitely a Dutch name. Under Dutch > filing rules > > the name would be filed as: Zand, Willemien van de. However, under > > Anglo-saxon filing rules it would be filed as: Van de Zand, Willemien. > > > > I work in both languages and I would suggest that if the book you are > > indexing is meant for an English speaking audience to file under 'Van' > > because that is where people expect to find it. My husband's > name is Van > > Leeuwen and we live in the UK, in the UK phonebook his name is > filed under > > 'V'. > > > I am of Dutch descent and grew up in a Dutch community in California. We > alphabetized the many Vans and Vanders under V; De Jongs under D, etc., > within our very non-Anglo-Saxon community. I alphabetize Van Gogh in V, > too, even though he's in a European context. > > Barbara Roos Dear Barbara, Your community may be very non-Anglo Saxon, but you are living in an Anglo-saxon country and obviously the filing rules of names starting with 'van' that your community uses has been picked up from the surrounding culture. Vincent van Gogh wil never be indexed under V in any Dutch publication, nor will the V be capitalised unless his name appears without his first name or initials. Don't get me wrong, I think it is perfectly OK to follow Anglo-Saxon filing practices for Dutch names in English publications. I do the same when I index Dutch names for an English publication. When indexing a Dutch publication, I follow Dutch filing rules though. I learned them while attending primary school in The Hague. There are so many names in Holland starting with the preposition 'van' that it would just be very unpractical to file these names under their preposition. When trying to find someone's number in the phonebook you would have to spend hours leaving through all the pages with names starting with 'van'. Caroline Diepeveen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:32:15 EDT From: TAHUDOBA@AOL.COM Subject: Re: The MEGO factor In a message dated 8/16/99 2:49:59 PM Central Daylight Time, lastword@MINDSPRING.COM writes: << I'd be interested in hearing how others deal with texts that are less than fascinating reading. I hesitate to use the word "boring" but I've worked on books that invoke the MEGO factor: My Eyes Glaze Over. >> Craig, I do many of the things you mentioned--get up, walk around, get food or drink, take a 10-minute break to do arm exercises. Then, if I still can't get focused, I may jump around in the text--skip a few pages, or perhaps to start on another chapter--and leaving using lots of Post-its to remind me about what I haven't yet covered. And if I still can't focus, well then I may just call it a day and try again tomorrow! Good luck, Terri Hudoba Indexers Plus--indexing, editing, proofreading tahudoba@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:53:06 -0400 From: "Judith W. Kip" Subject: Re: Missing author names My thanks to all who replied. I have queried the editor and from= past experience think she will not want to add the names to the text. In= that case I will not add them either. That was my first hunch, but I couldn't quite believe that the easy answer was the right one this time! Judy Kip ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Judith W. Kip 3 Courtly Circle Owego, New York 13827 JudithKip@compuserve.com Indexing and Proofreading ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 17:34:17 EDT From: SHughes512@AOL.COM Subject: Re: The MEGO factor In a message dated 99-08-16 16:14:55 EDT, you write: << I put myself on a strict reward system. I "chunk" the work. Get done with XX and YY and reward self with ...... (whatever turns you on). It is tedious, but it works. >> I'm a great believer in Janet's Rewards system. I'd guess that my breaks come more frequently than other peoples.. but who knows. I type for intensly for 30-40 minutes then break for 15 minutes.. type for 30-40 minutes and switch occupations, from typing to reading or marking for an hour or so, then back to typing. and so on til I meet my goals for the day. I find my back gets really irritable if I type for long stretches and IF I can keep focused, I get a lot done by chopping things into segments. My typical rewards are cups of flavored teas, or cocoa in winter, some loud music, a walk in the garden, or meditating on what life used to be like when I had a "real job" as my mother says. - complete with 150 minutes of commuting time per day. Can housework be a reward? Vacuuming and washing dishes can be a change and the place looks better for a few hours. If I let other things start to intrude I can loose half a day so I tend to get compulsive. When I get one of those repetitive books, I could scream. It makes the entry so difficult to do. Not physically because that doesn't change, but mentally it can be like water torture. I don't find that switching books helps much because I'll spend more time on the pleasant book and avoid the tedious one until I get nervous about deadlines then I'm stuck with it for long stretches anyway. Sorry for rambling. Sharon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:57:11 -0700 From: Susan Olason Subject: Re: MEGO Craig, I ride my horse when the MEGO factor takes over. After I come back from my ride, I'm in a very good mood. I have also burned up about 3 hours, so now I'm probably in a crunch mode. Since missing deadlines is never an option, I'm also extremely motivated and focused. Good mode plus crunch mode plus highly motivated and focused equals MEGO book completed in record time! Susan Olason Indexes & Knowledge Maps 11728 Elkhead Range Road Littleton, CO 80127-3706 303-973-5705 or email: oleduke@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 19:01:59 EDT From: MTOWERY@AOL.COM Subject: Re: The MEGO factor I tend to do what Janet suggests--reward myself with something positive everytime I finish a section or chapter. Interestingly, though, the grief counselor who has been helping Dan and I (she counsels for more than grief) says that you get more motivation from negative reinforcement. So, for instance, if you really wanted to make yourself undertake an exercise program, you could write a check to a political party or cause that you absolutely abhor, and if you don't stick to your schedule, then your partner (or whoever) sends the check off. She says that the psychological research indicates that this negative reinforcement is much more effective. So, maybe if you don't do XX pages per day, you can't have supper???? Margie Towery ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:42:20 -0400 From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: The MEGO factor I take a lot of unscheduled naps. R Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric racric ICQ 31476947 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 20:30:18 -0700 From: Homer Ellison Subject: Re: Thanks, and Thesaurus Meg, then the Super Thesaurus is set up like Roget's II. While I can see the usefulness of the original, I like this one because (1) it has more listings (over 400,000) than other thesauri I've seen; and (2) it provides not only a comprehensive listing of synonyms and antonyms for each entry, but also a reverse dictionary, sample sentences (where appropriate), slang/colloquiallisms, cross-references, and notable quotations as synonyms. I'm no salesman for Writer's Digest Books, but I just thought I'd point out that I'm very happy with it. Homer ----- Homer Ellison Advantage Media Solutions Manuscript services advms@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: Halter, Meg To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Date: Monday, August 16, 1999 10:36 AM Subject: Re: Thanks, and Thesaurus >Hi Homer -- > >Sorry I took a while to reply. I've been away. > >The original Roget's is broken into two sections. The front section is >organized into broad concepts (speaking from memory; my good Roget's is at >home) such as Hate or Humor or Deception. Within each of these concepts are >dozens, sometimes hundreds of related words with different shades of meaning >and of different degrees of slang. The second part is a huge index. > >The Roget's II is set up like a dictionary. Under an entry for a word there >are a few synonyms or a couple of cross references. > >The original Roget's offers a wonderful panorama of related words that is >missing from Roget's II. > >-- Meg > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Homer Ellison [SMTP:advms@MINDSPRING.COM] >> Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 10:41 AM >> To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU >> Subject: Re: Thanks, and Thesaurus >> >> Meg, >> >> I must admit I haven't been a big user of thesauri until fairly recently, >> so >> I have to ask you to give me more information on the difference between >> the >> two so I can give you a fair answer. >> >> Homer >> >> ----- >> Homer Ellison >> Advantage Media Solutions >> Manuscript services >> advms@mindspring.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Halter, Meg >> To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU >> Date: Thursday, August 12, 1999 9:50 AM >> Subject: Re: Thanks, and Thesaurus >> >> >> >Is the Roget's Super Thesaurus structured like the original Roget's >> >Thesaurus (which I love!) or like Roget's II, which structured like a >> >dictionary? >> > >> >-- Meg >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Homer Ellison [SMTP:advms@MINDSPRING.COM] >> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 4:34 PM >> >> To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU >> >> Subject: Re: Thanks, and Thesaurus >> >> >> >> Debbie, >> >> >> >> I have Roget's Super Thesaurus and couldn't be happier with it. It >> goes >> >> way >> >> beyond what most thesauruses (thesauri? ...whatever) will give you. >> Other >> >> people may have other ideas, however. >> >> >> >> Homer >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 00:27:53 -0400 From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" Subject: Re: The MEGO factor I was having a MEGO moment and decided to read Index-L! My book is not boring but is difficult subject matter, emotionally speaking. I don't know how many books I've done this year on the topic of crimes against humanity, both past (Holocaust, Gulag Archipelago, etc.) and future (coming trends in biological warfare, chemical warfare, with a few nukes thrown in for good measure.) I wasn't expecting anything of the sort in this book (it was easier to tell what was coming when I had one subtitled: "Crimes, Terror, Repression"), but it came up in the section I'm on right now. So.... I'm telling myself to JUST DO IT. I find this helps with both boring books and troublesome topics. The more I take breaks and put it off, the more I have to deal with it, since I'm thinking about it anyway. I try to get as much done as possible and then go for a long walk, water my plants, make something good to eat. With books full of atrocities, I search out my husband and snuggle up to him for a back-to-reality break. I've had so many of these books recently that he knows it when he sees me coming. Today he said, "Oh, it's your book, huh?" and I hadn't even told him the topic yet! Are the rest of the indexers turning down the books on mass crimes against humanity and that's why I'm getting them all?! Part of it is that new sources are coming to light with the opening of former Soviet and East German archives, from what I gather. Anyway, I'll just plug along and reward myself with my next book, a comparatively lighthearted thing about venture capital. Paula Durbin-Westby dwindex@louisa.net ------------------------------ End of INDEX-L Digest - 15 Aug 1999 to 16 Aug 1999 (#1999-18) ************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 19:43:58 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marsha and James White Subject: ASI membership MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi - Can anyone give me some idea of how long it takes to hear from the American Society of Indexers after joining? I sent off my check and application in June and haven't heard anything yet, though my check was endorsed so I know it arrived safely. An email query had no result. I realize ASI is staffed by volunteers, but I'm wondering if this long a delay is normal. (I guess I expected to receive an intro packet of info, membership card, etc. as in other professional organizations, but maybe that's not the case?) TIA, Marsha (who avidly reads all these postings trying to absorb as much as she can about this new world of indexing) White. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 20:16:39 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Iris B. Ailin-Pyzik" Subject: Re: Contract survey Comments: To: John and Kara Pekar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara - You are right, I certainly didn't mean this to sound as though anyone is "playing at indexing"! I am a downsized chemist who is currently involved in a number of things, including indexing, supporting small office computer systems, and oh yeah, by the way, parenting. :-) What I really meant was people who do this part time as a side line, could be working full time at another job (outside the home, actual paycheck) and/or are not trying to make it a full-support career. This might be because they like the security of their full-time job, or because they just don't want to index full time, or because other (usually family) commitments are present. I was trying to separate those who are really relying fully on their indexing income. Sorry for the poor choice of words. We all make choices about our careers/professions. Since we decided we didn't want to move, and I have been unable to find a suitable full-time job as a chemist with a reasonable commute, I have been trying to work at things I can do from home - being with my daughter is the bonus. (I had been interested in indexing even before that, and enrolled in the USDA course long before being downsized.) But she will be in all-day kindergarten this year, freeing up some of my time, and I hope to grow both the indexing and computer support work (which you don't actually do at home). Actually, I'm currently under consideration for a computer training/contract employment program, and will have to make a decision about that probably within the next month. The commute is a factor there. I have been a chemist for a long time, but where we live, the commute is a big factor in any position. When people ask me what I am doing, I answer that I am doing small-office computer system support and book indexing. I don't usually say "part time" so I've never gotten the "playing at" attitude. Just tell them what you do without qualifying it, and see if that helps. Iris John and Kara Pekar wrote: > > Iris wrote, > > > Indicate > > how long (years) you have been indexing, > > whether you are making a living at this, > > trying to make a living at this, > > whether you work part-time at another paying job while trying to grow > > your indexing business, or > > whether you work part-time at this and aren't trying to make it a > > living. > > I was somewhat disturbed by the tone of the last option on this list. I'm > sure Iris did not mean it to sound demeaning, but it could easily be > interpreted that way. Phrased as it is, "you work part-time at this and > aren't trying to make it a living" sounds as though if one isn't either a > full-timer or aspiring to be, one is just "playing at" indexing. > > I suspect what Iris meant was, "indexing part-time by choice" -- a very > different matter. Part-time indexers who do not have another paying job > are likely to be either retirees supplementing their income or full-time > parents who index because it allows them to make a decent part-time income > while remaining home with their children. The income thus earned, far from > being supplemental, is often a necessary part of the family's or > individual's finances. Part-timers-by-choice don't necessarily work any > less hard at indexing than full-timers do. They just take fewer or > shorter-length projects. They tend, in my experience, to be every bit as > professional as a full-time indexer. > > Normally, I would have taken this up only with the person who wrote it -- > and I certainly do not mean to single Iris out. But I certainly run into > the attitude of "You work part-time at home? Oh, you're earning pin > money/you're just playing at it" outside the indexing community, and I > would hate to start running into the same attitude within the indexing > community. So far, I am pleased to say, most indexers are quite > understanding of the fact that some of us work part-time and that we are > still professionals. I've been quite amazed by the degree of support > indexers have for one another, no matter what their relative circumstances. > Still, I thought it might not come amiss to air the issue at this time. > > (In case you're wondering, I fall into the "full-time parent/part-time > indexer" category. I work part-time because we rely on my income as well > as my husband's. I was lucky enough to discover indexing, which I enjoy, > and which pays far better than the job opportunities available to me in the > rural community where I live.) > > Kara Pekar > Wordsmith Indexing Services > jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 19:21:30 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: The MEGO factor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Now that this thread has gone to the cats :) I will take a moment to thank everyone who responded with suggestions for dealing with the dreaded MEGO factor. There is a perverse comfort in knowing I'm not alone. I'm especially intrigued by the variations of rewards and punishments (had never really considered the latter, but will). And I like Paula's rock-solid logic: JUST DO IT. Thanks to all, Craig Brown The Last Word Indexing Services (314) 352-9094 lastword@mindspring.com lastword@i1.net www.i1.net/~lastword ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 20:36:12 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Shana Milkie Subject: Re: ASI membership In-Reply-To: <00c001bee90a$62885840$4485d4d1@white> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Marsha, When I joined last year and re-joined this year, it only took a couple of weeks to receive a welcome packet/confirmation. (You're right about receiving introductory information.) Perhaps the ASI administrative office is backed up at the moment. I'm really surprised that it has taken so long. You could try calling about your membership application; the phone number is (602) 979-5514. Good luck! - Shana Milkie (e-mail: smilkie@mich.com) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:44:23 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Back Words Indexing Subject: Embedded, Framemaker Job Op Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi everyone - I don't do (thank heavens) embedded OR Framemaker OR software manuals, so I am passing this opportunity along to the list, with the blessings of my friend who needs the index. Martha Osgood Back Words Indexing ********* Hey, Martha, can you post another message to your indexers' list(s)? It looks like we are getting close to being ready to do this. Here are the specs. The doc is: Targeted at Unix and Windows NT system administrators Moderate to moderately high technical content Approximately 375 - 400 indexable pages Written in Framemaker 5.5 We need an embedded index. If it matters, the final index should be in a traditional indented style. We may be ready to hand off the document as soon as 9/17, but there's a pretty decent chance that the date will slip. We'd like a two-week turnaround, but a little more time is ok if two weeks really isn't feasible. Interested parties can directly contact Mike Tatro, tatro@vsi.com. He is the Lord High Guru of Documentation around here (a lofty title indeed). Gila ********* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 22:34:10 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: nonjudgmental term for creationism? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can anyone tell me whether "creationism" is the most neutral term for the belief that the Biblical story of creation is factual and that evolution theory is wrong? (I don't want a discussion on the pros and cons of the belief, just an inoffensive term for referring to it!) Boy, this has been a busy week. World War II, bridges, evolution-for-kids, geology... The wonderful thing about indexing is the wide variety of subjects. (Remind me I said that next time I get 4 books in a row on human rights abuses...) Thanks, Kara Pekar ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 19:55:47 -0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: new email address MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have recently changed my email address to: scoates@rcn.com Thank you, Sylvia Coates ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 22:30:33 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: badge Subject: Re: nonjudgmental term for creationism? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Can anyone tell me whether "creationism" is the most neutral term for the > belief that the Biblical story of creation is factual and that evolution > theory is wrong? (I don't want a discussion on the pros and cons of the > belief, just an inoffensive term for referring to it!) > > Kara Pekar I think "creationism" is neutral enough, if you preface it by explaining what you mean by the term. The main thing some people might be sensitive about is classifying "evangelical" Christians as "fundamentalists." The term "fundamentalism" was originally associated with the turn-of-the-century debate betweeen "conservative" Christians (mostly from the rural southern side of the Civil War split) who rejected evolutionary theory altogether and "liberal" Christians (mostly urban "Yankee") who sought some compromise between Christianity and evolutionary theory. Later conservative Christians tried to distance themselves from the stigma of the Scopes Monkey Trial and McCarthyism by distinguishing themselves from fundamentalists and identifying themselves as "evangelicals." Some evangelicals accept an interpretation of the Bible which accommodates the big bang theory and a modified version of evolutionary theory, and for this reason and others they prefer to be distinguished from "fundamentalists." Other evangelicals are closer to the original fundamentalist tradition in rejecting evolutionary theory wholeheartedly and arguing for a very literal interpretation of the Bible that makes the age of the Earth 6,000 years old. It should be noted that this more literal group includes some who identify themselves as "creation scientists." If you use the term "creationism" to refer to both groups, you should make clear that you are not referring exclusively to creation scientists. You will find more information about this by looking up books on the history of the debate over evolution in the U.S. I don't have a bibliographic reference handy (it's been awhile), but there are a number of good books on the subject. If you can't find one and you need a reference, let me know and I'll look it up for you. Roy Rasmussen B.A., Theology, Marquette University badge@execpc.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 21:03:06 -0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: nonjudgmental term for creationism? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Roy, Thank you for that very interesting explanation on creationism. I index many books on religion and was quite fascinated by the details in your message. Thank you for sharing! Best, Sylvia Coates -----Original Message----- From: badge To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Date: Wednesday, August 18, 1999 3:50 AM Subject: Re: nonjudgmental term for creationism? >> Can anyone tell me whether "creationism" is the most neutral term for the >> belief that the Biblical story of creation is factual and that evolution >> theory is wrong? (I don't want a discussion on the pros and cons of the >> belief, just an inoffensive term for referring to it!) >> >> Kara Pekar > >I think "creationism" is neutral enough, if you preface it by explaining >what you mean by the term. The main thing some people might be sensitive >about is classifying "evangelical" Christians as "fundamentalists." The >term "fundamentalism" was originally associated with the >turn-of-the-century debate betweeen "conservative" Christians (mostly from >the rural southern side of the Civil War split) who rejected evolutionary >theory altogether and "liberal" Christians (mostly urban "Yankee") who >sought some compromise between Christianity and evolutionary theory. Later >conservative Christians tried to distance themselves from the stigma of the >Scopes Monkey Trial and McCarthyism by distinguishing themselves from >fundamentalists and identifying themselves as "evangelicals." Some >evangelicals accept an interpretation of the Bible which accommodates the >big bang theory and a modified version of evolutionary theory, and for this >reason and others they prefer to be distinguished from "fundamentalists." >Other evangelicals are closer to the original fundamentalist tradition in >rejecting evolutionary theory wholeheartedly and arguing for a very literal >interpretation of the Bible that makes the age of the Earth 6,000 years >old. It should be noted that this more literal group includes some who >identify themselves as "creation scientists." If you use the term >"creationism" to refer to both groups, you should make clear that you are >not referring exclusively to creation scientists. > >You will find more information about this by looking up books on the >history of the debate over evolution in the U.S. I don't have a >bibliographic reference handy (it's been awhile), but there are a number of >good books on the subject. If you can't find one and you need a reference, >let me know and I'll look it up for you. > >Roy Rasmussen >B.A., Theology, Marquette University >badge@execpc.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 21:34:37 -0700 Reply-To: nkoenig Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: nkoenig Subject: Re: nonjudgmental term for creationism? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara, you might want to check out www.icr.org the WEB site of the Institute for Creation Research. I heard Jerry Falwell plugging it this afternoon and just got around to looking at it. It will probably just muddy the waters for you, but you might find it interesting. Therein two versions of creationism are distinguished, scientific and Biblical, each compatible with the other. Nick Koenig >Can anyone tell me whether "creationism" is the most neutral term for the >belief that the Biblical story of creation is factual and that evolution >theory is wrong? (I don't want a discussion on the pros and cons of the >belief, just an inoffensive term for referring to it!) > >Boy, this has been a busy week. World War II, bridges, evolution-for-kids, > geology... The wonderful thing about indexing is the wide variety of >subjects. (Remind me I said that next time I get 4 books in a row on human >rights abuses...) > >Thanks, > >Kara Pekar > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 08:44:05 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MaryMort@AOL.COM Subject: Re: nonjudgmental term for creationism? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Can anyone tell me whether "creationism" is the most neutral term for the > belief that the Biblical story of creation is factual and that evolution > theory is wrong? (I don't want a discussion on the pros and cons of the > belief, just an inoffensive term for referring to it!) Hi Kara, Here in Kansas, where this is in the news (although the state board of education did *not* vote specifically on creationism last week), the only term I've heard used is creationism. Now if you want to get into the different varieties of evolution being discussed in letters to the editor, that's another matter... ;-) I don't want to start another off-topic discussion, but I did *not* vote for the people who supported the new standards for Kansas schools. Mary -- * Mary Mortensen * marymort@aol.com * Indexing services * Lawrence, Kansas * Publicity Committee Chair, * 785-841-3631 * American Society of Indexers ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 05:51:20 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: nonjudgmental term for creationism? In-Reply-To: <199908180242.WAA18490@lycanthrope.crosslink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Years ago, I edited a self-published book on geology claiming there was a great flood and not plate tectonics. The writer (not a religious person) had contacts with Christian groups opposed to Darwinism. Several had the name creationism in the group name. Creation as detailed in Genesis is a foundation of their faith, which they are happy to proclaim. They are opposed to both Darwinism (natural selection) and evolution (a term Darwin did not use as it was applied during his life). Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 08:16:36 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Schroeder Subject: Re: ASI membership MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I will be looking into the status of this membership today. If anyone else has a similar problem, please let me know and I will check that one out also. Sandi Schroeder President, ASI -----Original Message----- From: Marsha and James White To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Date: Tuesday, August 17, 1999 7:12 PM Subject: ASI membership >Hi - Can anyone give me some idea of how long it takes to hear from the >American Society of Indexers after joining? I sent off my check and >application in June and haven't heard anything yet, though my check was >endorsed so I know it arrived safely. An email query had no result. I >realize ASI is staffed by volunteers, but I'm wondering if this long a delay >is normal. (I guess I expected to receive an intro packet of info, >membership card, etc. as in other professional organizations, but maybe >that's not the case?) >TIA, >Marsha (who avidly reads all these postings trying to absorb as much as she >can about this new world of indexing) White. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 06:24:30 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Frank Exner Subject: Re: nonjudgmental term for creationism? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- John and Kara Pekar wrote: > > Can anyone tell me whether "creationism" is the most > neutral term for the > belief that the Biblical story of creation is > factual and that evolution > theory is wrong? > I would suggest the term "creation science." "Creationism" is the term most used in the press; as such it has a sense of popularizing. The people who support the concept tend to use "creation science." Also, "creation science" will allow you to easily enter "creation story" where appropriate. Frank Exner, Little Bear Little Bear Indexing Services _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 09:38:53 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: nonjudgmental term for creationism? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you to everyone who responded to my query re: the use of the term "creationism." Your replies were all thoughtful and informative. I have decided in this case to use the term "creationism" as opposed to other proposed term choices. The majority of you indicate that this term would not be found offensive. "Creation science" does not fit the case, since the reference is less to the creation theories themselves, and more to the corollary belief that Darwinism/evolution theory is incorrect. The book in question is aimed at a young audience, and deals with evolution. The distinction between "creationism" and other terms probably wouldn't be recognized; "creationism" is the term they are more likely to be familiar with. Since it is not a term which is likely to offend, "creationism" seems the most readily recognizable choice. Kara Pekar ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 09:30:58 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: The MEGO factor In-Reply-To: <199908170408.AAA01841@bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Craig, besides all the things other folks have mentioned, in extreme cases, I resort to reading the text aloud for a few minutes, in funny voices if need be. You could also try playing some jumpy music. I know that I'm most susceptible to the MEGO factor when my office is real quiet. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My indexer@execpc.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer new Web address to come ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 09:40:15 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: nonjudgmental term for creationism? In-Reply-To: <199908180406.AAA11160@bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Can anyone tell me whether "creationism" is the most neutral term for the >belief that the Biblical story of creation is factual and that evolution >theory is wrong? Yes, that's what creationists call it (sometimes capped). There's a specialized type of it called scientific creationism, too. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My indexer@execpc.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer new Web address to come ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 23:25:01 +0800 Reply-To: kimmis@netvigator.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: shum Subject: unsubscribe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "unsubscribe" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 08:33:22 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: cgweaver@MINDSPRING.COM Subject: Reply to Marsha White Comments: cc: Bonnie Parks-Davies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My offlist reply to Marsha White's email address bounced, so I'm forwarding the message to Index-L in the hope that Marsha will get it via this route. To all: Please note that Bonnie (manager of the one-person ASI administrative office) moved in July, which has slowed down responses to inquiries. If you don't get an email or snail mail answer from ASI within what you consider a reasonable period of time, please be sure to call the office at 623-772-1811. (Note new Admin Office phone number.) Carolyn -----Original Message----- >Marsha -- Welcome to ASI! I'm copying your Index-L message to Bonnie >Parks-Davies (the ASI office manager, who is not an Index-L subscriber). She >will be in touch with you shortly about your new membership. > >Regards, >Carolyn Weaver >ASI Treasurer >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - >------------------------------- > > >Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 19:43:58 -0400 >From: Marsha and James White >Subject: ASI membership > >Hi - Can anyone give me some idea of how long it takes to hear from the >American Society of Indexers after joining? I sent off my check and >application in June and haven't heard anything yet, though my check was >endorsed so I know it arrived safely. An email query had no result. I >realize ASI is staffed by volunteers, but I'm wondering if this long a delay >is normal. (I guess I expected to receive an intro packet of info, >membership card, etc. as in other professional organizations, but maybe >that's not the case?) >TIA, >Marsha (who avidly reads all these postings trying to absorb as much as she >can about this new world of indexing) White. > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:16:22 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: ABell9086@AOL.COM Subject: unsubscribe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please allow me to "unsubscribe" from your list. Thanks Art Bell ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 14:20:59 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lillian Ashworth Subject: Punctuation for publisher Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This is being cross posted to CEL, so please excuse the duplication. I'm indexing a literary criticism book in which the author uses both the original story "The Monkey's Paw" by W.W. Jacobs and the stage adaptation. For the citations from the stage version, the author has set French's Acting Edition --and only that without any part of the title-- in italics as though it alone was a title. From my earlier career as a stage actress, I happen to know that French's is the publisher of record for ALL acting editions (well, most of them anyway) --one look at my bookshelf would provide several shelves of "Acting Editions" with my lines and cues all underlined. Has anyone else seen this type of construction? There needs to be a distinction --the author is using stage directions in the acting version to focus her thesis-- but I've never seen publishers set off in italics before. Just to make matters worse, I've found a number of errors that need to be clarified with the author (for whom I'm working) and she has already returned a marked set of proofs to the publisher! For example, I found a reference to an author, last name only, in the text but no mention in the bibliography whatsoever. Also, names that are not consistently spelled, etc. AARGH! Lillian Ashworth ashworth@pullman.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 20:08:39 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marsha and James White Subject: Re: ASI membership MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To all the kind people who responded to my puzzled question about ASI membership - Shana Milkie, Richard Evans, Elliot Linzer, Sandi Schroeder, & Carolyn Weaver (hope I remembered everyone) - a very big thank you. I will be watching the mailbox for my welcome packet. You are all great! Marsha ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:34:20 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Imre Csorba Subject: Re: unsubscribe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "unsubscribe" me, please! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 10:19:15 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey Subject: Re: Contract survey In-Reply-To: <37B9D089.9AC4600A@crystalsys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I nearly always confirm details in writing, but don't do it as a formal contract, and rarely have problems. Occasionally I am reminded of things I should have confirmed and didn't, and this is where I tend to wear a loss (eg not asking how much space I had, and then having to cut an index short). Glenda. PS I am a part-timer and a supplemental income, and I am often really glad that I am not trying to juggle a full-time indexing load with all the short deadlines, slipping schedules, etc that seem inevitable. Yet indexers do manage it (with my admiration). > OK, we've started this discussion about > > Like, never swing on a trapeze without a net; never go into book > indexing without a contract! > > If we'd like a tally of how many of us use written contracts as a matter > of course, let's see if I can act as the voting box. > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 23:51:37 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: badge Subject: Re: nonjudgmental term for creationism? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Years ago, I edited a self-published book on geology claiming there was a > great flood and not plate tectonics. The writer (not a religious person) > had contacts with Christian groups opposed to Darwinism. Several had the > name creationism in the group name. Creation as detailed in Genesis is a > foundation of their faith, which they are happy to proclaim. They are > opposed to both Darwinism (natural selection) and evolution (a term Darwin > did not use as it was applied during his life). > > > Pam Rider Yes, these would be the creation science subset of the creationists I was talking about, who are associated with several specific groups and newsletters. They take Genesis 1 and the Genesis chronology very literally, and are distinct from less literal creationists who accept certain aspects of evolutionary theory and interpret the Bible accordingly. The less literal creationists, for instance, may accept the idea that the "days" in Genesis represent metaphorical days equivalent to geological eras, or they may accept the idea that evolution occurred but it was guided by divine design rather than random mutation. Both types of creationists may be described by using the term "creationism," but it is the literal group that typically refers to themselves using the term "creation science"--in my experience, at least. Roy Rasmussen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 20:22:29 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Wyatt Organization: Keyword Editorial Services Subject: SKYIndexUsers list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A list has been established for users of SKY Index, to allow and encourage the exchange of tips, tricks and techniques among owners of SKY Index. The list is also intended to aid those who are trying the SKY Index demo and would like to learn more about the programs capabilities. Finally, the list is also open to indexers in general and to the users of other professional indexing software packages so that they may get an idea of the features of SKY Index from the perspective of actual SKY Index users. To subscribe to the list, go to http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/SKYIndexUsers Registration is free. The first message to the list will contain a description of the new "translation" feature that allows you include special characters like hyphens, dashes and commas in your page references without upsetting the formatting. Shortly I'll be adding a few more tips like: * Macros for incorporating hotlinked URLs in your Web index * A sure-fire method of keeping your index in original page number order while you're updating an index for a new edition * A function-key template for your keyboard * Some neat undocumented features of SKY Index * A way of embedding authority control records in a periodical index Michael Wyatt Keyword Editorial Services 22 Kendall Street, Surry Hills 2010 Australia Phone 0500 539 973 Fax (02) 9331 7785 keyword@ozemail.com.au ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 07:37:01 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: dallen2@LUCENT.COM Subject: Re: unsubscribe Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I tried to unsubscribe with the commands and it wouldn't work! Daree Allen Imre Csorba on 08/18/99 08:34:20 PM Please respond to "Indexer's Discussion Group" To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU cc: (bcc: Daree Allen/HQ/Yurie) Subject: Re: unsubscribe "unsubscribe" me, please! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 07:15:18 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Willa MacAllen Subject: Re: SKYIndexUsers list In-Reply-To: <004001beeabb$b7716b00$44906ccb@michaelw> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:22 PM 8/19/99 -0700, you wrote: >A list has been established for users of SKY Index, to allow and encourage >the exchange of tips, tricks and techniques among owners of SKY Index. The >list is also intended to aid those who are trying the SKY Index demo and >would like to learn more about the programs capabilities. Finally, the list >is also open to indexers in general and to the users of other professional >indexing software packages so that they may get an idea of the features of >SKY Index from the perspective of actual SKY Index users. Hi All: I was wondering when this would happen. It's a great idea. Willa (looking forward to contra dancing tonite.....) Willa MacAllen Information Organizer MacAllen's Information Services Boston ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 08:11:38 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: greenhou@EROLS.COM Subject: How to unsubscribe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There seems to be a rash of these attempts. Once again, emailing a message to this address INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU posts a message to the reading audience, composed of indexers who are sorry to see folks leave the list. Emailing a message to this address LISTSERV@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU tells the computer that passes out the mail that you no longer wish to be on the list. And now, you can go to this URL http://listserv.binghamton.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?SUBED1=index-l&A=1 and tell the list server all kinds of things about how you want your subscription set up, or cancel it. Have fun. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:08:30 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Frazer Wright Subject: An irresistible example? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Browsing through a pile of old magazines - acquired for just such a purpose - from a British charity shop (are they called thrift shops in the US?) I came across the following review by Michael Hall in Country Life of April 25, 1996. I think the review will interest many: the final sentence, as well as the price of this *super* index, may raise some eyebrows. The Builder Illustrations Index 1843-1883 Ruth Richardson and Robert Thorne (Hutton and Rostron, (pounds sterling)125) ONE of the great success stories of Victorian periodical publishing was the Builder, a weekly magazine founded in 1843 which still appears today, under the name Building. Such continuity makes even Country Life seem a spring chicken. Under the inspired editorship of George Godwin, who ran the magazine for 39 years from 1844, the Builder soon established itself as the leading journal for the building and architectural professions. Other periodicals may have included more technical information, others were more intellectually stimulating, but the Builder alone reflected the whole diverse and explosively energetic world of 19th-century architecture. As a result, its heavy volumes of closely packed type are now an essential resource for students of Victorian building. However, its annual indexes are frustratingly inadequate, so that tracking down references is a brain numbing experience, with the constant temptation to stray from the matter at hand to accounts of the technology of ventilation in cattle markets or the decoration of sailors' homes in India. Undaunted, the Builder Group, which publishes the magazine today, and the Institute of Historical Research decided to collaborate on an index to The Builder. It has been decided to publish separate volumes indexing its individual aspects, beginning with the illustrations that were such an important ingredient in its success. The succinct introduction describes the changing printing technology that allowed The Builder to produce illustrations of such quality. The complex index has been arranged with clarity, with as full a system of cross-referencing as possible. One page taken at random suggests the work's scope. The main heads are Ceilings, Cellars, Cement and Ceramics; the subheadings under Cellars are Form, Material, and Use; the last of these is divided into Habitation and Storage, of which the latter has 15 headings, beginning with bank vaults, beer cellars, bullion vaults and catacombs. Here is a rare example of an index being not only essential but also as irresistibly browsable as the work for which it is a guide. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 10:39:46 -0300 Reply-To: Noeline Bridge Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Noeline Bridge Subject: Indexer needed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have received a message from an author who needs an indexer immediately, for a book which chronicles the history of audiovisual adaptations of Dickens's "A Christmas Carol" as well as his other Christmas-related writings. It covers pre-cinema magic lantern shows up to today's video releases, and also several chapters dealing with the circumstances surrounding the writing of the "Carol". The author adds: > While my book is essentially a scholarly labor of love, it has been > written with the general reader in mind and I think it is one of those rare > scholarly books that has a chance to appeal to a wider audience; it will also > radically revise the existing body of knowledge about adaptations of the > "Carol." > The book contains 249 indexable pages including an annotated filmography. > I hope that this project would be of interest to you and I would be grateful > if you could please call me at 203-488-0168 at your earliest > convenience. Thank you very much for your attention. If anyone is interested in preparing the index to this book and is available to do it within the next two weeks or so, contact Fred Guida (Branford, Connecticut) at the above phone number or at Fredgfilm@aol.com Noeline Bridge BRIDGEWORK nbridge@nb.sympatico.ca 295 Highfield Street Moncton, NB E1C 5R4 phone 506 870-1113 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 10:50:04 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Organization: Binghamton University Subject: listserv commands MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please remember that if you want to send a command to the listserv such as set digest, set nomail, review, unsubscribe, etc. DO NOT send the request to index-l. The address you should be using is LISTSERV@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU. -- Charlotte Skuster index-l moderator ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:30:15 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: ASI membership MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sandi, Could you send me the new addresses (snail & email), the web site, and the phone number for ASI? I have the old ones, but misplaced the file where I stuck the new ones, and I don't have my Keywords with me at the moment. I've got someone asking about indexing, and I wanted to give them the ASI addresses etc. Thanks, Kara Pekar jkpekar@crosslink.net ---------- > From: Sandi Schroeder > To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > Subject: Re: ASI membership > Date: Wednesday, August 18, 1999 9:16 AM > > I will be looking into the status of this membership today. If anyone else > has a similar problem, please let me know and I will check that one out > also. > > Sandi Schroeder > President, ASI > -----Original Message----- > From: Marsha and James White > To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > Date: Tuesday, August 17, 1999 7:12 PM > Subject: ASI membership > > > >Hi - Can anyone give me some idea of how long it takes to hear from the > >American Society of Indexers after joining? I sent off my check and > >application in June and haven't heard anything yet, though my check was > >endorsed so I know it arrived safely. An email query had no result. I > >realize ASI is staffed by volunteers, but I'm wondering if this long a > delay > >is normal. (I guess I expected to receive an intro packet of info, > >membership card, etc. as in other professional organizations, but maybe > >that's not the case?) > >TIA, > >Marsha (who avidly reads all these postings trying to absorb as much as she > >can about this new world of indexing) White. > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:45:19 -0400 Reply-To: celiam@icubed.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Celia McCoy Subject: attn: Pittsburgh area indexers In-Reply-To: <6480770d.24e74050@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wanted: Indexers (or those interested in indexing) living in the > Pittsburgh/Western PA area available for freelance help. Work isn't > difficult but must be done on premises (to start); pay is extremely > reasonable. Please e-mail me off list for details. Thanks! Celia McCoy> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 11:01:41 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: The MEGO factor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:01 PM 8/16/99 EDT, MTOWERY@AOL.COM wrote: >I tend to do what Janet suggests--reward myself with something positive >everytime I finish a section or chapter. Interestingly, though, the grief >counselor who has been helping Dan and I (she counsels for more than grief) >says that you get more motivation from negative reinforcement. So, for >instance, if you really wanted to make yourself undertake an exercise >program, you could write a check to a political party or cause that you >absolutely abhor, and if you don't stick to your schedule, then your partner >(or whoever) sends the check off. She says that the psychological research >indicates that this negative reinforcement is much more effective. Margie, this is fascinating, in a sort of a horrible way. I'm thinking of far more than indexing projects...exercising being one (and the one you happened to mention). It pains me to think that fear is a better motivator than pleasure, but maybe it is. I will have to list my ten most-hated political groups/advocacy groups and write out some checks and see if THAT gets me up out of this chair and into my tap shoes or my bathing suit. Sonsie sconroy@slonet.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 11:03:47 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Missing author names Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:14 PM 8/16/99 -0700, Back Words Indexing wrote: >Hi Janet et al - >I prefer your answer, and several books have suggested that an author index >especially should consist of simply surnames and initials. But G. Norman >Knight, in _Indexing, the Art of_ has a charming way of suggesting the >opposite: he says we must "bestir ourselves" to locate the full names of >indexable people. It's almost worth doing the research if I can tell >people that I "bestirred myself" to do it - Martha, just wanted to be sure you understood my perhaps less-than-clear distinction: I would most definitely bestir myself to locate first-name information for authors (or others) mentioned in the text by last name only. I wouldn't move a muscle to find those names to begin with, if the author had not included at least SOME part of the name in the text. Sonsie sconroy@slonet.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 11:17:15 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: The MEGO factor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:30 AM 8/18/99 -0500, Carol Roberts wrote: >Craig, besides all the things other folks have mentioned, in extreme cases, >I resort to reading the text aloud for a few minutes, in funny voices if >need be. You could also try playing some jumpy music. I know that I'm most >susceptible to the MEGO factor when my office is real quiet. Carol, I go seek out my husband (who also works at home), and read HIM some of the "worst" passages in a funny voice. He has MEGO moments, too, and this way, we both get a good laugh and eventually can return to our chores. I also play some of my favorite old rock 'n roll music AND dance to it (that is funny in and of itself). The exercise shakes up the portions of my anatomy that have been applied to my office chair far too long, and also shakes up my brain a bit. All in all, a very good solution. Conducting one's favorite symphonic piece is also helpful...preferably with grandly overstated gestures and a lot of humming along with the music. Sonsie sconroy@slonet.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 13:46:01 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Schroeder Subject: Re: ASI membership MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In case anyone else needs it, I will respond to the full list. The snail mail address for the ASI administrative office is still P.O. Box 39366, Phoenix, AZ 85069-9366 The email address is info@asindexing.org The web address is http://www.asindexing The voice phone number is 623-772-1811 The fax number is still 602-530-4088 Sandi Schroeder President, ASI -----Original Message----- From: John and Kara Pekar To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Date: Thursday, August 19, 1999 12:18 PM Subject: Re: ASI membership >Sandi, > >Could you send me the new addresses (snail & email), the web site, and the >phone number for ASI? I have the old ones, but misplaced the file where I >stuck the new ones, and I don't have my Keywords with me at the moment. >I've got someone asking about indexing, and I wanted to give them the ASI >addresses etc. > >Thanks, >Kara Pekar >jkpekar@crosslink.net > >---------- >> From: Sandi Schroeder >> To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU >> Subject: Re: ASI membership >> Date: Wednesday, August 18, 1999 9:16 AM >> >> I will be looking into the status of this membership today. If anyone >else >> has a similar problem, please let me know and I will check that one out >> also. >> >> Sandi Schroeder >> President, ASI >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Marsha and James White >> To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU >> Date: Tuesday, August 17, 1999 7:12 PM >> Subject: ASI membership >> >> >> >Hi - Can anyone give me some idea of how long it takes to hear from the >> >American Society of Indexers after joining? I sent off my check and >> >application in June and haven't heard anything yet, though my check was >> >endorsed so I know it arrived safely. An email query had no result. I >> >realize ASI is staffed by volunteers, but I'm wondering if this long a >> delay >> >is normal. (I guess I expected to receive an intro packet of info, >> >membership card, etc. as in other professional organizations, but maybe >> >that's not the case?) >> >TIA, >> >Marsha (who avidly reads all these postings trying to absorb as much as >she >> >can about this new world of indexing) White. >> > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 08:01:30 +1200 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marite Tweeddale Subject: Re: listserv commands MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Charlotte I have tried 5 times to unsubscribe & I keep getting failed messages. Then I went into the URL & it told me there was an error. Would you please be able to take me off the list? Sorry to be such a nuisance but I'm really running out of patience. I'm off to the indexers conference in Hobart & still have a lot of work to get through. I'll be back on the list on the 6th September, if I can get on. Thank you very much Marite Tweeddale -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Skuster To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Date: Friday, 20 August 1999 03:12 Subject: listserv commands >Please remember that if you want to send a command to the listserv such >as set digest, set nomail, review, unsubscribe, etc. DO NOT send the >request to index-l. The address you should be using is >LISTSERV@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU. >-- >Charlotte Skuster >index-l moderator > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 15:46:34 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: EF Subject: Newbie Questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0075_01BEEA5A.03AEDBE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0075_01BEEA5A.03AEDBE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please pardon me for posting even though I just joined this list. = However, I have to make a decision fairly quickly about whether I want = to learn indexing and make a career of it. (There's a possibility of = getting my training paid for.) I'm doing as much research as possible = before next week which so far has included joining all the indexing = discussion groups and reading the ASI site from cover to cover and = working my way down the listings of an "indexing" search. Any = suggestions, hints, tips, etc. would be very appreciated. Of course, I = have a jillion questions but if some of you could answer one question = for me, I'm sure it would help-----------What do you wish someone had = told you about indexing/ the job of indexing before you started? TIA Clicker=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0075_01BEEA5A.03AEDBE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Please pardon me for posting even = though I just=20 joined this list.  However, I have to make a decision fairly = quickly about=20 whether I want to learn indexing and make a career of it.  (There's = a=20 possibility of getting my training paid for.)  I'm doing as much = research=20 as possible before next week which so far has included joining all the = indexing=20 discussion groups and reading the ASI site from cover to cover and = working my=20 way down the listings of an "indexing" search.  Any = suggestions,=20 hints, tips, etc. would be very appreciated.  Of course, I have a = jillion=20 questions but if some of you could answer one question for me, I'm sure = it would=20 help-----------What do you wish someone had told you about indexing/ the = job of=20 indexing before you started?
   TIA
Clicker 
------=_NextPart_000_0075_01BEEA5A.03AEDBE0-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 16:37:13 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Organization: Binghamton University Subject: Re: listserv commands MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marite, I am sorry you have had problems. I set your subscription options to nomail. When you are ready to hear from index-l again, let me know and I will set it back to mail. Charlotte Marite Tweeddale wrote: > Dear Charlotte I have tried 5 times to unsubscribe & I keep getting failed > messages. Then I went into the URL & it told me there was an error. > > Would you please be able to take me off the list? Sorry to be such a > nuisance but I'm really running out of patience. I'm off to the indexers > conference in Hobart & still have a lot of work to get through. > > I'll be back on the list on the 6th September, if I can get on. > > Thank you very much > > Marite Tweeddale > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Skuster > To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > Date: Friday, 20 August 1999 03:12 > Subject: listserv commands > > >Please remember that if you want to send a command to the listserv such > >as set digest, set nomail, review, unsubscribe, etc. DO NOT send the > >request to index-l. The address you should be using is > >LISTSERV@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU. > >-- > >Charlotte Skuster > >index-l moderator > > -- Charlotte Skuster Science Reference/Health Science Bibliographer Binghamton University Science Library P. O. Box 6012 Binghamton, NY 13902-6012 Phone: (607) 777-4122 Fax: (607) 777-2274 skuster@binghamton.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 16:06:41 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Willa MacAllen Subject: Re: The MEGO factor In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19990819181715.01461f88@slonet.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All: >I also play some of my favorite old rock 'n roll music AND dance to it (that >is funny in and of itself). The exercise shakes up the portions of my >anatomy that have been applied to my office chair far too long, and also >shakes up my brain a bit. All in all, a very good solution. Yeah......another dancer on the list! :) Sorry about that, but I couldn't resist. Willa (who will be dancing up a storm herself in 3 hours and 30 minutes....) Willa MacAllen Information Organizer MacAllen's Information Services Boston ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 15:41:12 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Reed, Rosemary" Subject: Re: Newbie Questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Well, I've been lurking for a little while, and am nearly finished Lesson 2 of the USDA course, which my employer is not only paying for, but suggested I take, and the thing I would point out to you about indexing, which isn't exactly news to you or any of us, is, it is Really Hard Work. atb, Rosemary -----Original Message----- From: EF [mailto:efisher@STONEMEDIA.COM] Sent: Thursday, August 19, 1999 2:47 PM To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Subject: Newbie Questions Please pardon me for posting even though I just joined this list. However, I have to make a decision fairly quickly about whether I want to learn indexing and make a career of it. (There's a possibility of getting my training paid for.) I'm doing as much research as possible before next week which so far has included joining all the indexing discussion groups and reading the ASI site from cover to cover and working my way down the listings of an "indexing" search. Any suggestions, hints, tips, etc. would be very appreciated. Of course, I have a jillion questions but if some of you could answer one question for me, I'm sure it would help-----------What do you wish someone had told you about indexing/ the job of indexing before you started? TIA Clicker ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 09:50:36 +0100 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Taming journals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT What ways are used to hold and display journals when indexing them? Regards _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 08:10:45 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: greenhou@EROLS.COM Subject: Re: Taming journals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 
What ways are used to hold and display journals when indexing
them?


I've found three ways that work for me:

A big rock (confiscated from a 3 year old) holds stiff bindings open when the issue is flat on the table.

One of those chip bag clips - holding the pages open across the top of the open journal.

I have begun using a wire book stand I bought at Barnes and Noble in combination with the chip bag clip. The wire stand folds away when I'm not working.

Shelley Greenhouse
database indexer ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 09:54:19 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PilarW@AOL.COM Subject: Baltimore Book Fest Indexing Booth Comments: To: dcpubs@egroups.com, ASI-L@onelist.com, indexstudents@onelist.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Washington, DC Chapter, American Society of Indexers (ASI) Baltimore Book Fest Booth Saturday, September 25, 1999 Sunday, September 26, 1999 Mount Vernon Place Baltimore, MD The Washington, DC Chapter of ASI is once again hosting a booth at the Baltimore Book Fest next month! The book festival runs 11-7pm each day and attracts tens of thousands. Publishers both small and mid-sized participate, as do writers' groups and book sellers. Last year there were readings, book signings, children's events, and live entertainment. Books were for sale and food was plentiful. In addition to FAQs on indexing and ITI (Information Today, Inc.) catalogs featuring materials on indexing, DC/ASI will be distributing the following index-related goodies: --an Index of Exhibitors for the book festival --updated copies of our directory, Capital Indexers --new ASI brochures --Wilson Award applications --"Indexers Know Where to Locate it!" stickers ($4/ea) This is a great opportunity to learn about the value of indexes and the services indexers provide. Be sure to stop by our booth and pay us a visit! For more information, contact Deborah Patton at deporahpatton@mindspring.com or 410/243-4688. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 10:23:43 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: Baltimore Book Fest Indexing Booth Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To contact Deborah, that's deborahpatton@mindspring.com, not deporahpatton@mindspring.com. Cynthia At 09:54 AM 8/20/99 EDT, PilarW@AOL.COM wrote: >This is a great opportunity to learn about the value of indexes and the >services indexers provide. Be sure to stop by our booth and pay us a visit! > >For more information, contact Deborah Patton at deporahpatton@mindspring.com >or 410/243-4688. > > ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen Bertelsen Indexing and Editorial Services Specialities: Food History, Nutrition, Cookbooks, Gastronomy cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.usit.com/cbertel/ Long before institutionalized religions came along--and temples and churches--there was an unquestioned recognition that what goes on in a kitchen is holy. Cooking involves an enormously rich coming together of the fruits of the earth with the inventive genius of the human being. ---Laurel Robertson--- ****************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 10:29:01 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: EF Subject: Re: Newbie Questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0022_01BEEAF6.D1A8AF20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BEEAF6.D1A8AF20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable thanks so much to everyone who replied to my question of what they = wished they'd known about indexing before they started. Every message = was extremely helpful.=20 So far it's looking as if I'll be on this list for a long time! Clicker=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BEEAF6.D1A8AF20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

thanks so much to everyone who = replied to my=20 question of what they wished they'd known about indexing before they=20 started.  Every message was extremely helpful. 
    So far it's = looking as if=20 I'll be on this list for a long time!
Clicker 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BEEAF6.D1A8AF20-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:36:33 -0000 Reply-To: Christine Shuttleworth Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: What price an index? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Frazer Wright wrote: Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: magnetix@IX.NETCOM.COM Subject: van prefixes (also von, de etc) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii (Delayed reply to an older thread) As an indexer of art books, I constantly deal with the problem of names like "Vincent van Gogh". The specialist index user thinks "G", and the newbie thinks "V". I solve this with a standing heading in the index, filed among the "V"s, that reads: VAN: many names with "van", "van de" and the like are filed under the next element of the name (e.g., Gogh, Vincent van) It is also true that a few names which have become totally naturalized are filed under "V", e.g.: Van der Zee, James (an American photographer) But the standing heading is still valid, because of the qualifying word "many". You might put the same standing heading at the beginning of the "D"s (for names in "de" "di" "d'" and the like.); and so forth. You might also put the same information in the headnote to the index - but many users wouldn't find it there. This standing heading isn't necessary if the audience for the book is primarily specialists. *** Peter Rooney magnetix@ix.netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:30:53 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: van prefixes (also von, de etc) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I hadn't ever considered the use of a note at a heading, but it seems like a good idea. Thank you for suggesting it! Kara Pekar Wordsmith Indexing Services jkpekar@crosslink.net ---------- > From: magnetix@IX.NETCOM.COM > To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > Subject: van prefixes (also von, de etc) > Date: Friday, August 20, 1999 12:03 PM > > (Delayed reply to an older thread) > As an indexer of art books, I constantly deal with the problem > of names like "Vincent van Gogh". The specialist index user thinks > "G", and the newbie thinks "V". I solve this with a standing > heading in the index, filed among the "V"s, that reads: > > VAN: many names with "van", "van de" and the like are filed > under the next element of the name (e.g., Gogh, Vincent van) > > It is also true that a few names which have become totally > naturalized are filed under "V", e.g.: > Van der Zee, James (an American photographer) > But the standing heading is still valid, because of the qualifying > word "many". > You might put the same standing heading at the beginning of > the "D"s (for names in "de" "di" "d'" and the like.); and so forth. > You might also put the same information in the > headnote to the index - but many users wouldn't find it there. > This standing heading isn't necessary if the audience for > the book is primarily specialists. > *** > > > > > Peter Rooney > magnetix@ix.netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:02:04 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kari Miller Subject: Georgia Indexers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am trying to find all active indexers in Georgia. Please contact me as soon as possible! Thank you, Kari Miller