Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9912C" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:31:00 -0000 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Re: Bad address In-Reply-To: <3856F98C.BB9EDC7D@home.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hello - > Sorry to bother all of you but I'm trying to sign-off and mail is > returned from: listserv@bingvmb.binghamton.cc.edu. Could someone let me > know the correct address? Thanks. > I think the address you want is LISTSERV@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Regards _John Sampson ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:54:07 -0800 Reply-To: spreadword@excite.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Beti Spangel Subject: JOURNAL INDEXING Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Collective Wisdom-- I have gotten my first paying job - to index an entire catalog of a nationa= l magazine (approx. 20 years' worth) and now have the daunting task of preparing a quote. =A0I am not sure how to go about this - should I go by t= he entry, or by the hour? I don't think by the hour would be fair because I a= m not particulary fast at this point (although I'm prolific on the topic, jus= t not fast on my software yet), and I have no strict time constraints on the job. I don't want to shortchange myself, but I don't want to put together some outlandish looking=20 number that leaves the editors gasping and sorry they ever said yes to me.= =20 I have gotten some good tips (thanks, Glenda) but would like to put my quandry out to all for comment. (Additional thanks to Peg Mauer and all at the Western NY ASI chapter for their suggestions and support - you re-energized me in Oct. and I landed a job I really wanted.) TIA, Beti Spangel Spread the Word Indexng spreadword@excite.com _______________________________________________________ Visit Excite Shopping at http://shopping.excite.com=20 The fastest way to find your Holiday gift this season ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 09:29:35 -0800 Reply-To: anderson@the-indexer.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charles Anderson Subject: Cited author index MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's been a very long time since I've had to include a "cited author" index in a work by multiple authors. I'm wondering what the current thinking is on handling situations where the author of a chapter cites thusly, "Smith et al. 1996" (with the full list of authors - sometimes three or more - in the notes at the end of the chapter. Does one index all the et al.'s or only the primary author? If one doesn't index all the et al.'s, it seems a bit unfair then when another author in a different chapter doesn't use et al. but lists say, three authors by name. On the other hand, in the first case, there will be names indexed that won't appear on the specific page. I checked the archives of Index-L which has some references but nothing on this particular aspect. Any thoughts, anyone? Charles R. Anderson the-indexer.com PO Box 15642, Seattle, WA 98115-0642 5028 37th Ave. NE, Seattle, WA 98105 (non-USPS deliveries) Voice: 206-985-8799, 206-524-6624 Cell Phone: 206-841-5209 Fax: 206-985-8796 (fax) Web: http://www.the-indexer.com E-Mail: anderson@the-indexer.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:01:03 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SHughes512@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Cited author index MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/15/1999 11:39:14 AM Central Standard Time, anderson@THE-INDEXER.COM writes: << "Smith et al. 1996" (with the full list of authors - sometimes three or more - in the notes at the end of the chapter. Does one index all the et al.'s or only the primary author? If one doesn't index all the et al.'s, it seems a bit unfair then when another author in a different chapter doesn't use et al. >> I seem to have done a bunch of these this year... I index the authors cited on the page of the text. Most of the time that means the first author and the second author for a two authored text and only the first author of a multi-authored citation. The scholarly books I index seem to use the convention that two authors get mentioned, three or more get et.al.'d I'd love to know how others handle this. Personally, I'd also like to know how preparing a citation index affects your quote for a project. Even though I automate the entry as far as possible, they are expensive to prepare and boring. Sharon ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:41:55 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nedalina Dineva Subject: DC ASI Chapter meeting In-Reply-To: <199912150504.AAA09304@bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit DC ASI Chapter Hosts Do Mi Stauber^Òs Facing the Text Workshop Thirty-eight indexers from the District of Columbia, Maryland, and Virginia attended the much-awaited Facing the Text Workshop offered by Do Mi Stauber on November 6, 1999. The fact that all of us got there successfully was a proof that ^ÓIndexers know where to locate it!^Ô (as one of the chapter bumper stickers reads). The National Institute of Health building challenged our orienteering abilities with its maze-like corridors and elevators that reached only selected floors, but ultimately rewarded us with a bright and spacious room that revealed vistas of fall-colored trees. In this environment we were treated to a thoughtful and thorough overview of the indexing process with its accompanying pains and joys of creation. Do Mi^Òs presentation covered the thought processes and decision-making strategies involved in indexing and offered some specific solutions to commonly encountered problems. Her distinction between metatopic (the overall subject of the book), local main topics (subjects of chapters, sections, or paragraphs), and ancillary topics (important topics that are scattered throughout the book) was not only helpful for differentiating among categories of indexable terms, but also provided us with a common vocabulary that facilitated our further discussions. Do Mi went on to explore specific issues in creating sub-entries, providing cross-references, and making wording choices. Especially beneficial were the numerous examples and exercises, which illustrated the theoretical concepts and challenged us to identify our own processes and styles of indexing. Some of the more inspiring points that I took from this meeting included the idea that indexing is an art ^Ö consequently, there isn^Òt just one right way to do it. As long as you are able to back up your decisions, you can^Òt go wrong. Also, as Do Mi says, it^Òs OK not to know what you are doing in the beginning. The structure of the book might emerge gradually, so you have to allow yourself flexibility in determining the organization of the index. The same applies to wording. If unsure how to express a concept or a relationship, just put down your general idea and wait until you stumble upon the most fortunate wording choice, either in the text or during the editing process. And finally, don^Òt write the book in the index: remember that your task is only to show that a relationship exists and not to explain what exactly that relationship is. In interviewing participants in the workshop, I found that all considered it highly informative and worthwhile. Foremost, Do Mi^Òs presentation seems to have clarified why we do the things that we do while we index. For beginning indexers, the workshop provided new ideas and reaffirmation of their approach to the task. For indexers with some experience under their belt, it reinforced strategies that they had either been using subconsciously or that they had forgotten. An indexer who took the USDA course 5 years ago discovered that this workshop was a much needed refresher. Very experienced indexers found it useful to compare their methods with other people^Òs and even to try to defend (verbally or mentally) their established system. While the workshop was geared toward indexers in the social sciences and the humanities, even database and medical indexers thought that they had benefited from it. Of special interest was the issue of how to identify indexable material, and several people expressed an interest in exploring this topic in future workshops. It seems that participants would have liked to take some of the issues further than the agenda of the workshop allowed. In this respect, the examples and exercises in Do Mi^Òs workshop revealed a potential for sparking lively discussions on different indexing methods. In the future, perhaps we could incorporate this experience into a more free-flowing workshop where we could analyze and compare our indexing techniques. Do Mi^Òs workshop is among the most valuable continuing education resources for indexers and we were extremely pleased to host it in the DC area. My interviews of participants seemed to suggest that the workshop is most beneficial for indexers at the beginning of their career, but who already have some experience in the field. Absolute beginners found it difficult to relate to the problems discussed as they had not experienced them personally. Yet, the workshop obviously had something to offer for everyone. For those who were unable to attend, I highly recommend seeking other opportunities to participate in the workshop, as Do Mi gives presentations throughout the country and at annual conferences. Nedalina (Dina) Dineva Secretary, DC ASI Chapter ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:42:06 -0800 Reply-To: anderson@the-indexer.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charles Anderson Subject: Re: Cited author index In-Reply-To: <0.e930cd9.2589315f@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tell me about it! I remember nightmares when one author cites someone as "Smith, J.L." and several chapters later, another author cites, "Smith, James," and then later someone else uses, "Smith, J. Lamar." All the same? RE quoting, I just use my estimator program after inputting some authors to recheck my keying speed and then allow a healthy percentage for resolving problems. thanks for you response. Charles -----Original Message----- From: Indexer's Discussion Group [mailto:INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of SHughes512@AOL.COM Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 10:01 AM To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Subject: Re: Cited author index In a message dated 12/15/1999 11:39:14 AM Central Standard Time, anderson@THE-INDEXER.COM writes: << "Smith et al. 1996" (with the full list of authors - sometimes three or more - in the notes at the end of the chapter. Does one index all the et al.'s or only the primary author? If one doesn't index all the et al.'s, it seems a bit unfair then when another author in a different chapter doesn't use et al. >> I seem to have done a bunch of these this year... I index the authors cited on the page of the text. Most of the time that means the first author and the second author for a two authored text and only the first author of a multi-authored citation. The scholarly books I index seem to use the convention that two authors get mentioned, three or more get et.al.'d I'd love to know how others handle this. Personally, I'd also like to know how preparing a citation index affects your quote for a project. Even though I automate the entry as far as possible, they are expensive to prepare and boring. Sharon ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:56:33 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Do Mi Stauber workshop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Friends, For those who are in the West, Do Mi will be leading her workshop in Tempe, Arizona on February 26th. See http://aztec.asu.edu/azasi/ for the meeting pre-announcement. Cost is very modest for a program of this quality. Please feel free to contact me with questions. Janet Perlman SOUTHWEST INDEXING and ASI/AZ Chapter Treasurer ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:50:53 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: larryNOSPAMh123@HOME.COM Subject: Re: Do Mi Stauber workshop In-Reply-To: <0.91374d6d.25893e61@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 1:56 PM -0500 12/15/99, JPerlman@aol.com wrote: >Friends, > >For those who are in the West, Do Mi will be leading her workshop in Tempe, >Arizona on February 26th. See > http://aztec.asu.edu/azasi/ >for the meeting pre-announcement. Cost is very modest for a program of this >quality. > >Please feel free to contact me with questions. > And for those in the Midwest, Do Mi will bring her workshop to Saint Paul, Minnesota on April 1, 2000. Stay tuned to index-l for a specific announcement, or contact me directly with your questions. Regards, Larry Harrison Co-Webmaster American Society of Indexers http://www.asindexing.org/ and Secretary/Treasurer, Twin Cities Chapter [please remove NOSPAM to email me directly] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:00:42 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Cited author index Comments: To: anderson@the-indexer.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:29 AM 12/15/1999 -0800, Charles Anderson wrote: >It's been a very long time since I've had to include a "cited author" index >in a work by multiple authors. I'm wondering what the current thinking is >on handling situations where the author of a chapter cites thusly, "Smith et >al. 1996" (with the full list of authors - sometimes three or more - in the >notes at the end of the chapter. Does one index all the et al.'s or only >the primary author? If one doesn't index all the et al.'s, it seems a bit >unfair then when another author in a different chapter doesn't use et al. >but lists say, three authors by name. On the other hand, in the first case, >there will be names indexed that won't appear on the specific page. My first word of advice is, when in doubt...call your editor and ask for specific guidance. If I'm left to make the decision, I usually include all author names, even in citations with an "et al." Yes, I have to look these up, and it takes a lot longer, and I charge more for it. If I do this, I cite ALL authors. And BTW, if the chapters have been properly edited, the citations should be the same in each instance. But I know that sometimes this doesn't work out. If it's ragged enough, I might mention it to the author. Readers do notice these things, especially in scholarly or technical books. Sonsie sconroy@slonet.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:00:44 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Cited author index Comments: To: anderson@the-indexer.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:42 AM 12/15/1999 -0800, Charles Anderson wrote: >Tell me about it! I remember nightmares when one author cites someone as >"Smith, J.L." and several chapters later, another author cites, "Smith, >James," and then later someone else uses, "Smith, J. Lamar." All the same? Like I said in an earlier post, I would hope the editor had caught these and flagged them for the author. If they're still lurking around to confuse readers, I will make a list myself, for the production editor. I don't know how many times they are actually fixed, but at least I've done my bit. Sonsie sconroy@slonet.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:24:23 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dan Connolly Subject: Re: Cited author index Comments: To: anderson@the-indexer.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Charles, I remember this being discussed in quite a bit of detail last year. I'm sure there were differing opinions at the time. Here's mine. It is usually the press's editorial style that dictates whether in-text citations are one name or many names. Most of the work I've done is in American Psychological Association (APA) style. Here's what the APA Publication Manual says about references in the text: "3.95 One Work by Multiple Authors When a work has two authors, always cite both names every time the reference occurs in the text. When a work has three, four, or five authors, cite all authors the first time the reference occurs; in subsequent citations, include only the surname of the first author followed by et al. and the year if it is the first citation of the reference within a paragraph. When a work has six or more authors, cite only the surname of the first author followed by et al. and the year for the first and subsequent citations. (In the reference list, however, provide the initials and surnames of each author.) If two references with six or more authors shorten to the same form, cite the surnames of the first authors and as many of the subsequent authors as are necessary to distinguish the two references, followed by et al." Ok, so that's what the Publication Manual of the American Psychological Association has to say about in-text citations. What the editor of the book does to make it conform to this style can have a lot to do with the appearance of the references throughout the many chapters. So in the case where you have three names cited in one chapter and only the et al. form in the other (provided it is indeed the same reference), that is an editorial error--unless it is the second such citation in the same chapter, then it should have all three names spelled out. You cannot control this, and you cannot be expected to note these occurences. Now, the APA Publication Manual doesn't address indexes at all, but here are my thoughts on this. Time-consuming as it may be, index all authors of all papers. They are listed in their entirety in the reference section. They contributed to the work cited. They are being cited as well as the first author. They should be there. Often, as many as three, four or even five authors contribute significantly to the work cited. This is only my opinion. Because this is how I approach indexing authors cited, I charge a fee for producing such an index. Minimum, $.50/pg. up to $1/pg. Dan ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Daniel A. Connolly ---> mailto:connolly@neca.com Word For Word Indexing Services ---> http://www.wfwIndex.necaweb.com Indexstudents List ---> http://www.wfwIndex.necaweb.com/indexstudents.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles Anderson To: Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 12:29 PM Subject: Cited author index > It's been a very long time since I've had to include a "cited author" index > in a work by multiple authors. I'm wondering what the current thinking is > on handling situations where the author of a chapter cites thusly, "Smith et > al. 1996" (with the full list of authors - sometimes three or more - in the > notes at the end of the chapter. Does one index all the et al.'s or only > the primary author? If one doesn't index all the et al.'s, it seems a bit > unfair then when another author in a different chapter doesn't use et al. > but lists say, three authors by name. On the other hand, in the first case, > there will be names indexed that won't appear on the specific page. > > I checked the archives of Index-L which has some references but nothing on > this particular aspect. > > Any thoughts, anyone? > > Charles R. Anderson > the-indexer.com > PO Box 15642, Seattle, WA 98115-0642 > 5028 37th Ave. NE, Seattle, WA 98105 (non-USPS deliveries) > Voice: 206-985-8799, 206-524-6624 > Cell Phone: 206-841-5209 > Fax: 206-985-8796 (fax) > Web: http://www.the-indexer.com > E-Mail: anderson@the-indexer.com > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:33:23 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diane Brenner Subject: Re: Indexing web sites at www.lycos.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Seth. The list looks good and the listing is appreciated. Hope you're enjoying your new job. Diane ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:47:55 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: susanhernandez@JUNO.COM Subject: Re: Locators for subheadings Nina wrote: >I made the following index entry: > >Rosh Hashanah > kingship 10-15, 16, 17-19 > >The author has three headings in a row (on the pages shown above) that >= >talk about the concept of kingship on Rosh Hashanah but 1) the three = >discussions have a great deal of overlap and 2) I do not want to use = >sub-subheadings. Does the above arrangement make sense or should I >have = >the subheading "kingship" 10-19? > I think "10-19" is too long a page range to be really helpful to the reader. To avoid sub-subs, you can use a cross reference ( kingship (see Kingship)) to direct the reader to a more detailed break down of the topic. If the topic discussion isn't continuous, your break up of the pages would make sense, but still not as helpful as sub-subs or a cross reference would be. I would still have more detail for the Kingship main heading (at least three subheadings, more if the discussion warrants it) than either of the 'stand alone page range' choices give. As always, you as the indexer, should make the final call based on the scope of the book and how much room you have for the index. - Susan *************************************** Susan Danzi Hernandez BookEnd Indexing susanhernandez@juno.com (316) 789-0576 (Kansas) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 18:41:35 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Willa MacAllen Subject: Problems with receiving .pdf files Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi All: A new project involves the receipt of .pdf files. When the first .pdf file was sent at the end of last week, I had difficulty receiving them. The . pdf files choked my email system (to use the words from mindspring's tech support line). I have a pc with mindspring (obviously) and Eudora Pro 4.2. Does anyone have any suggestions about what I should do to be able to receive .pdf files? Shouldn't I be able to receive .pdf files with adobe acrobat or do I need to purchase another program in order to accept them? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Willa (looking forward to meeting my great niece who is less than 2 months old this weekend who.....:) ) Willa MacAllen Indexing, Proofreading, Editing, Research MacAllen's Information Services Brighton, MA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:45:25 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Laura M. Gottlieb" Subject: On-line indexes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" 15 December 1999 > >Can you all advise me on on-line indexes and their software? The editors of a scholarly journal have approached me to index the past 72 years of their quarterly magazine. They want a bound paper index and also an on-line one. If any of you have created on-line indexes, can you tell me about them? Can I simply prepare the index on CINDEX and import it into another format for uploading onto a website? Or should I use another kind of software? They would like to search both by subject and by keyword. Any advice from the collective wisdom would be much appreciated--as always. Thanks in advance!-- >--Laura Moss Gottlieb, Freelance Indexer > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 18:52:22 -0800 Reply-To: elinorl@mcn.org Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: Re: subheading wording MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Nina wrote: > >I made the following index entry: > >Rosh Hashanah > > kingship 10-15, 16, 17-19 The discussion that followed was about the locators, but I have a question about the wording of the subheading. Does anyone else find it needs more information? Something like: kingship concept and or even kingship related to I know we are trying to eliminate wordiness in subheadings, but I hate to see the meaning thrown out as well. Elinor Lindheimer ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:39:33 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jack Lewis Subject: Re: Problems with receiving .pdf files MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Willa, I have run into the same problem. When the pdf files are too large the server times out and in my case not only can I not receive the pdf files but also all the files that arrive subsequently are blocked until the pdf file gets deleted. Two solutions have been suggested to me. One is to have the pdf files broken down in to smaller files that my server can handle. The second solution is to get a service with a server that has greater capacity. I believe I was told an FTP server would work. Probably someone else on the list can fill in the technical details better but that is the general idea as I understand it. Hope it helps, Jack -----Original Message----- From: Willa MacAllen To: Date: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 7:15 PM Subject: Problems with receiving .pdf files >Hi All: > >A new project involves the receipt of .pdf files. When the first .pdf file >was sent at the end of last week, I had difficulty receiving them. The . >pdf files choked my email system (to use the words from mindspring's tech >support line). > >I have a pc with mindspring (obviously) and Eudora Pro 4.2. > >Does anyone have any suggestions about what I should do to be able to >receive .pdf files? Shouldn't I be able to receive .pdf files with adobe >acrobat or do I need to purchase another program in order to accept them? > >Any suggestions would be appreciated. > >Willa (looking forward to meeting my great niece who is less than 2 months >old this weekend who.....:) ) >Willa MacAllen >Indexing, Proofreading, Editing, Research >MacAllen's Information Services >Brighton, MA > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 19:05:56 +1300 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Simon Cauchi Subject: Re: Cited author index Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Does one index all the et al.'s or only the primary author? All of them. So if on p. 17 there is something like "As is shown by Bloggs et al. (1998) ...", and the Notes or References list "Bloggs, A., Chook, B., Dunstable, C., Everichone, D., Fairley, E., learned article on something or other, etc.", the index should have: Bloggs, A., 17 Chook, B., 17 Dunstable, C., 17 Everichone, D., 17 Fairley, E., 17 A headnote explaining your system would not go amiss, just in case someone looks up p. 17 and is puzzled because Everichone (say) is not mentioned in the text. Simon Cauchi, Hamilton, New Zealand ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 06:17:40 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rick Hurd Subject: Re: Problems with receiving .pdf files MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/15/1999 7:49:38 PM Central Standard Time, macallen@MINDSPRING.COM writes: > A new project involves the receipt of .pdf files. When the first .pdf file > was sent at the end of last week, I had difficulty receiving them. The . > pdf files choked my email system (to use the words from mindspring's tech > support line). > > I have a pc with mindspring (obviously) and Eudora Pro 4.2. > > Does anyone have any suggestions about what I should do to be able to > receive .pdf files? Shouldn't I be able to receive .pdf files with adobe > acrobat or do I need to purchase another program in order to accept them? > > Any suggestions would be appreciated. > I was sent some .pdf files to my Hotmail email address that exceeded the maximum amount of space allotted for my Hotmail account. I quickly downloaded the .pdf files and deleted them from my Hotmail email address. This worked fine for me, and I would suppose it would work for others as long as you downloaded and deleted the .pdf files before the automatic file deleting robot came along and removed them, or worse, remove other important files and email that you may have stored there. You should be able to open the .pdf files using adobe acrobat reader. Or, you could copy the .pdf files and take them to Kinkos and pay to have them printed out. Sincerely, Rick Hurd, Rick's Indexing, 2125 Birmingham Rd. Liberty Mo. 64068 USA URL: http://members.aol.com/Find884344/index.html Phone: 816-781-9042 Fax: 801-650-6118 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 23:02:45 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Wyatt Organization: Keyword Editorial Services Subject: Re: Problems with receiving .pdf files MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Willa: You might find some of the suggestions helpful in an article in the Australian Society of Indexers' November Newsletter: http://www.aussi.org/anl/9910nov/printing_acrobat_pdf_files.htm Problems could include: * Graphics, especially colour graphics, take up a lot of room -- ask them to switch graphics "off" before producing the PDF files. If you must see the pictures, ask them to produce black and white only for the PDF files * Compressing the files can save quite a lot of space -- ask the client to Zip the files before sending them Michael Wyatt Keyword Editorial Services 22 Kendall Street, Surry Hills 2010 Australia Phone 0500 KEYWRD (0500 539 973) Fax (02) 9331 7785 keyword@ozemail.com.au ----- Original Message ----- From: Willa MacAllen To: Sent: Wednesday, 15 December, 1999 3:41 Subject: Problems with receiving .pdf files > Hi All: > > A new project involves the receipt of .pdf files. When the first .pdf file > was sent at the end of last week, I had difficulty receiving them. The . > pdf files choked my email system (to use the words from mindspring's tech > support line). > > I have a pc with mindspring (obviously) and Eudora Pro 4.2. > > Does anyone have any suggestions about what I should do to be able to > receive .pdf files? Shouldn't I be able to receive .pdf files with adobe > acrobat or do I need to purchase another program in order to accept them? > > Any suggestions would be appreciated. > > Willa (looking forward to meeting my great niece who is less than 2 months > old this weekend who.....:) ) > Willa MacAllen > Indexing, Proofreading, Editing, Research > MacAllen's Information Services > Brighton, MA > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:31:50 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Willa MacAllen Subject: Re: Problems with receiving .pdf files In-Reply-To: <000701bf4787$ef1d5fe0$3212d1d1@y1u3d4> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi All: Thanks, Jack and Rick for your helpful suggestions. I've been wondering if the size of the files caused the complications. It sounds like that must be the case, although the editor has indicated that she is sending the .pdf files to others involved in the project. If others on the list have information or experience with ftp servers, I'd be interested in learning about it. Thanks, again. Willa (starting to dream about enrolling in an Elderhostel in New Mexico or Arizona next May....) >Hi Willa, > >I have run into the same problem. When the pdf files are too large the >server times out and in my case not only can I not receive the pdf files but >also all the files that arrive subsequently are blocked until the pdf file >gets deleted. Two solutions have been suggested to me. One is to have the >pdf files broken down in to smaller files that my server can handle. The >second solution is to get a service with a server that has greater capacity. >I believe I was told an FTP server would work. Probably someone else on the >list can fill in the technical details better but that is the general idea >as I understand it. Hope it helps, > >Jack Willa MacAllen Indexing, Proofreading, Editing, Research MacAllen's Information Services Brighton, MA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 05:59:15 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ellen Davenport Subject: Job opportunity Comments: cc: mcampbell@siebel.com MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello-- I just received this request for applicants for an indexing position in northern California. They are looking for indexers who know and use Frame, and who can work part-time on site, in their offices in Emeryville and San Mateo, California. > **NOTE: Please respond directly to Mary Ann Campbell at the address given below.** Ellen Davenport > >========================== > >Under limited supervision provide indexing support for multiple >writing groups as they prepare user documentation for Siebel Application >products. >You will index multi-volume, multi-book documents , entering index >entries directly into Framemaker books/files. >Although you may work off-site while you are working on paper, all >Framemaker work must be done on-site in Emeryville or San Mateo. >Product documentation may include concepts manuals, application >and developer guides, installation guides, reference manuals, and >product examples. >Requirements: >* Typically, 2-3 years experience as an indexer in fast-paced software >development environments >* Excellent oral and written communication skills >* Skilled at FrameMaker > >Send resumes to: > >Mary Ann Campbell >Technical Publications >Siebel Systems, Inc. >1900 Powell Street >Emeryville, CA 94608 >mcampbell@siebel.com >(510) 594-6148 > > > >Mary Ann Campbell >Manager, Technical Writing >Siebel Systems, Inc. >phone (510) 594-6148 >fax (510) 594-6114 > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:23:23 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: larryNOSPAMh123@HOME.COM Subject: Re: Problems with receiving .pdf files In-Reply-To: <0.1c94148a.258a2454@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 6:17 AM -0500 12/16/99, Ricksindexing@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 12/15/1999 7:49:38 PM Central Standard Time, >macallen@MINDSPRING.COM writes: > >> A new project involves the receipt of .pdf files. When the first .pdf file >> was sent at the end of last week, I had difficulty receiving them. The . >> pdf files choked my email system (to use the words from mindspring's tech >> support line). >> >> I have a pc with mindspring (obviously) and Eudora Pro 4.2. >> >> Does anyone have any suggestions about what I should do to be able to >> receive .pdf files? Shouldn't I be able to receive .pdf files with adobe >> acrobat or do I need to purchase another program in order to accept them? >> >> Any suggestions would be appreciated. >> > >I was sent some .pdf files to my Hotmail email address that exceeded the >maximum amount of space allotted for my Hotmail account. I quickly downloaded >the .pdf files and deleted them from my Hotmail email address. This worked >fine for me, and I would suppose it would work for others as long as you >downloaded and deleted the .pdf files before the automatic file deleting >robot came along and removed them, or worse, remove other important files and >email that you may have stored there. > >You should be able to open the .pdf files using adobe acrobat reader. Or, you >could copy the .pdf files and take them to Kinkos and pay to have them >printed out. > What I had to do a couple years ago when I had an account limited to 5MB of storage was coordinate by phone with the person sending, so he didn't send the next 2-3 MB of stuff until I called to tell him I had downloaded/deleted the previous batch. It's a lot of trouble, but not as much trouble as getting the sys admin of your email provider to straighten it out after your account gets flooded and you can't even access your mail. Especially on a weekend. That was REALLY a lot of trouble. Regards, Larry Harrison Co-Webmaster American Society of Indexers http://www.asindexing.org/ and Secretary/Treasurer, Twin Cities Chapter [please remove NOSPAM to email me directly] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 06:38:11 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Back Words Indexing Subject: Re: Problems with receiving .pdf files In-Reply-To: <0.1c94148a.258a2454@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >You should be able to open the .pdf files using adobe acrobat >reader. Or, you could copy the .pdf files and take them to Kinkos >and pay to have them printed out. Not necessarily a good idea for indexers: My Kinko's charges $.50 per page to print out from their machines. For a 300 page PDF'd book, this could present a slight problem... I'd like to ask why I used to be able to receive PDFs with my Mac OS 8.6 and Acrobat Reader, but since August I cannot. Sometimes, but not always, there is a quick flash across the screen that says I need more fonts, but it seems like Acrobat would be smart enough to allow the PDF to print with substitute fonts if the book is sent with some that I don't have. I've done memory work and there's plenty of memory. There are no graphics in the PDF'd books I can't print. Besides, I used to be able to print them, why not now? Martha Martha Martha Osgood Back Words Indexing http://www.teleport.com/~index ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:40:14 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diane Brenner Subject: Re: Problems with receiving .pdf files MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Willa, I use ftp (CuteFTP - downloadable from a software site) to receive pdf files, but some, with lots of graphics, are just huge and take a long time to download. If your connection aren't good they can easily get jammed. I find it easier, in these cases, to ask for mailed files. The good thing about ftp is you can tell the file size in advance. Diane Willa MacAllen wrote: > Hi All: > > A new project involves the receipt of .pdf files. When the first .pdf file > was sent at the end of last week, I had difficulty receiving them. The . > pdf files choked my email system (to use the words from mindspring's tech > support line). > > I have a pc with mindspring (obviously) and Eudora Pro 4.2. > > Does anyone have any suggestions about what I should do to be able to > receive .pdf files? Shouldn't I be able to receive .pdf files with adobe > acrobat or do I need to purchase another program in order to accept them? > > Any suggestions would be appreciated. > > Willa (looking forward to meeting my great niece who is less than 2 months > old this weekend who.....:) ) > Willa MacAllen > Indexing, Proofreading, Editing, Research > MacAllen's Information Services > Brighton, MA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:01:32 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bonnie Hanks Subject: Re: Indexing web sites at www.lycos.com In-Reply-To: <85256847.00549966.00@SMTPNotes1.ma.lycos.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Has anyone had experience with Host Save as a web hosting service? Their URL is http://hostsave.com/ I like their price and offerings but just wanted to hear if anyone had any personal experience with them. Thanks, Bonnie Bonnie Hanks jbh3y@virginia.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:54:13 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kevin Campbell Subject: Re: Cited author index MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I also index all authors, for the reasons others have given. The time required to do these indexes can vary a lot--from few citations with end-of-chapter reference lists (makes the references easy to locate) to heavily cited books with a single big reference list at the end. Thus it's critical to know what you're in for before nailing down the bid. On a recent undergraduate developmental psych project, for example, I figured over a third of my total time went into the author index. Kevin Campbell Greenleaf Editorial LLC kevinc@chorus.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:09:05 -0600 Reply-To: Sandi Schroeder Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Schroeder Subject: ASI news Comments: To: indexstudent , indexsig MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For details on the signing of the mangement contract with Drohan Management Group and the sale of back issues of Key Words, please go to the ASI website (http//:www.asindexing.org) Sandi Schroeder President, ASI ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:12:20 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: Problems with receiving .pdf files In-Reply-To: <00a601bf4860$38a71ec0$2a906ccb@michaelw> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Zipping PDF files does not reduce their size - they are usually already compressed. I haven't had any problems receiving PDF files over mindspring with Eudora. But here are some ideas... Have them send one file per email message. 12 files - 12 separate email messages. Check your Eudora settings to make sure you do not have a limitation on size of email received. Check under Tools> Options and look for the Incoming Mail icon. Check to see if you have a checkmark by the "skip mail messages over ____ in size" box. If nothing else works, use the WS FTP application that comes with mindspring, and have the people set up the files on an FTP server where you can retrieve them. If you want to get fancy, your mindspring account should include an area of your very own for FTP files. In other words, you already have an FTP server at your disposal. Go online at the mindspring tech support site, and it will tell you how to do it. Your client can FTP the files into that area, and you can pick them up from there. Jan Wright At 11:02 PM 12/16/99 -0800, you wrote: >Willa: > >You might find some of the suggestions helpful in an article in the >Australian Society of Indexers' November Newsletter: >http://www.aussi.org/anl/9910nov/printing_acrobat_pdf_files.htm > >Problems could include: >* Graphics, especially colour graphics, take up a lot of room -- ask them to >switch graphics "off" before producing the PDF files. If you must see the >pictures, ask them to produce black and white only for the PDF files >* Compressing the files can save quite a lot of space -- ask the client to >Zip the files before sending them > >Michael Wyatt >Keyword Editorial Services >22 Kendall Street, Surry Hills 2010 Australia >Phone 0500 KEYWRD (0500 539 973) Fax (02) 9331 7785 >keyword@ozemail.com.au > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Willa MacAllen >To: >Sent: Wednesday, 15 December, 1999 3:41 >Subject: Problems with receiving .pdf files > > >> Hi All: >> >> A new project involves the receipt of .pdf files. When the first .pdf >file >> was sent at the end of last week, I had difficulty receiving them. The . >> pdf files choked my email system (to use the words from mindspring's tech >> support line). >> >> I have a pc with mindspring (obviously) and Eudora Pro 4.2. >> >> Does anyone have any suggestions about what I should do to be able to >> receive .pdf files? Shouldn't I be able to receive .pdf files with adobe >> acrobat or do I need to purchase another program in order to accept them? >> >> Any suggestions would be appreciated. >> >> Willa (looking forward to meeting my great niece who is less than 2 months >> old this weekend who.....:) ) >> Willa MacAllen >> Indexing, Proofreading, Editing, Research >> MacAllen's Information Services >> Brighton, MA >> =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Wright Information Indexing Services http://www.wrightinformation.com Jancw@wrightinformation.com =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:15:42 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: Problems with receiving .pdf files In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" If the person creating the PDF file forgets to check off the "Include downloadable fonts" box while creating the file, you will not get the fonts, and they will not print right. This box is NOT ON by default - they have to remember to do it. Ask them about that option, and make sure it is on when they create the PDF file. Also, if they have upgraded to a newer version of Acrobat, and are forgetting to create files that are backwardly compatible, you will also have problems opening them. Make sure they are making files that can be read by 3.0 and 2.01, unless they have some special need to make only 4.0 files. Jan At 06:38 AM 12/16/99 -0800, you wrote: >>You should be able to open the .pdf files using adobe acrobat >>reader. Or, you could copy the .pdf files and take them to Kinkos >>and pay to have them printed out. > > >Not necessarily a good idea for indexers: My Kinko's charges $.50 >per page to print out from their machines. For a 300 page PDF'd >book, this could present a slight problem... > >I'd like to ask why I used to be able to receive PDFs with my Mac OS >8.6 and Acrobat Reader, but since August I cannot. Sometimes, but >not always, there is a quick flash across the screen that says I need >more fonts, but it seems like Acrobat would be smart enough to allow >the PDF to print with substitute fonts if the book is sent with some >that I don't have. I've done memory work and there's plenty of >memory. > >There are no graphics in the PDF'd books I can't print. > >Besides, I used to be able to print them, why not now? > >Martha > >Martha > > Martha Osgood > Back Words Indexing > http://www.teleport.com/~index =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Wright Information Indexing Services http://www.wrightinformation.com Jancw@wrightinformation.com =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:00:07 -0800 Reply-To: anderson@the-indexer.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charles Anderson Subject: Cited Authors Index MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you to all who offered opinions on this. Just to summarize the public and individual mailings, I would say the breakdown was about 60/40 for indexing "et al.'s" - that is about 60% felt they should all be indexed (in this case there really should be an explanatory note at the beginning of the index) and 40% feeling that the same argument that applied to use of multiple authors in the text, i.e., no more than three, should apply. Once again, demonstrating that indexing is an art, developed existentially by its practitioners, not a science. Charles R. Anderson the-indexer.com PO Box 15642, Seattle, WA 98115-0642 5028 37th Ave. NE, Seattle, WA 98105 (non-USPS deliveries) Voice: 206-985-8799, 206-524-6624 Cell Phone: 206-841-5209 Fax: 206-985-8796 (fax) Web: http://www.the-indexer.com E-Mail: anderson@the-indexer.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 12:14:58 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Cited author index MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Charles and others, It may (or may not) have been articulated, but the first place to look for guidance on this question is the publisher's guidelines for indexers. It has been my experience, on the rare occasions when I do this kind of index, that there has already been a decision made at the publishing house, and so it is not up to the indexer. The M.O. is pre-determined. Janet Perlman SOUTHWEST INDEXING ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 12:36:01 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SHughes512@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Cited author index MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/16/1999 11:22:09 AM Central Standard Time, JPerlman@AOL.COM writes: << The M.O. is pre-determined. >> Most of the time this is the case. I have had experiences where the Editor said, "we don't normally do this type of book, how should we handle it?" or "Ask the authors what they want" and the authors have no idea. I guess the indexer has to consider what was said earlier - that if you send the reader to a page where the name isn't mentioned, (because the name was under et.al.) it causes confusion. The alternative of posting a cross reference from every author hidden under et.al. to the main author, would be painful - at least to me. I suspect the citation index is highly valued in the social sciences and this might be useful, if there were no length restrictions. BUT I sure want to be paid for my pain. Sharon ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 12:53:25 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Cited author index MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sharon wrote << BUT I sure want to be paid for my pain. >> My experience has been, with the clients who want author indexes done, that they expect it to be rolled into the same cost. That's why I don't do many. I simply won't do the extra work for the same price. I have found few clients who are willing to pay an extra $1/page for the work of putting together such an index. And at that, it isn't much compensation for the extra painstaking (and boring) work. One reason I don't get too many calls for this type of work is that I work primarily in the sciences. The few clients I have who request a cited author index are among my "general clients", and are in the social sciences. For me it has been an ongoing educational process, to get my clients to realize that they are asking me, as a business person, to do more work for the same money, and that it is not such a minimal task that it should be given away for nothing. Janet Perlman SOUTHWEST INDEXING ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:58:25 -0800 Reply-To: nkoenig Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: nkoenig Subject: Re: IRS (eeeek) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I know some of you are old hands at this stuff. I have just completed a big project and I am about to send a BIG bill. I would prefer that the income be counted in 2000 rather than 1999. Is it sufficient if I don't get paid until after Jan. 1 or should I wait to send my invoice until after Jan. 1? Thanks in advance. Nick Koenig ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 12:59:47 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Organization: Binghamton University Subject: job opportunity MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------F9E32E5CA1C68F2800897B73" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------F9E32E5CA1C68F2800897B73 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Please respond directly to the Textile Museum...not to INDEX-l. > > >Director, The Lloyd Cotsen Textile Documentation Project > >The Textile Museum, Washington DC, seeks a Director for The Lloyd Cotsen >Textile Documentation Project, a five-year grant funded project now in >its second year. Full-time (through 2002) position directing, >coordinating and supervising curatorial and administrative aspects of >preparing and publishing a comprehensive textile lexicon for use in >cataloging historical and ethnographic textile collections as well as >organizing scholarly seminars and documenting 15,000+ textiles in the >Argus collections database. Director supervises a staff of two and >administers project budget. > >Job Duties: >Manage and supervise the LCTDP: >* Oversee, coordinate and contribute to lexicon development, >including developing agenda and directing lexicon meetings with >curatorial staff >* Collate and edit the TM Lexicon, supervise distribution of >sections to readers/reviewers and incorporate reviewer comments into >revised format for publication >* Work with curators to set priorities and identify participants >for Cotsen Scholars, Fellows and Lexicon Review Panels >* Organize visits by and work of Cotsen Fellows and Scholars > Plan and oversee scheduling of visits and panels > Work with curators to identify and select objects for >review during visits and panels >* Supervise publication of lexicon in print and electronic formats >(Editor) >* Plan and oversee yearly budget and expenditures >* Conduct annual planning and review process >* Supervise and train curatorial assistant and curatorial >associate >* Direct collections database/lexicon digital imaging projects >undertaken by Curatorial Associate >* Oversee and contribute to data cleanup and new documentation >* With Curatorial Associate, determine data development projects >for interns >* Attend textile-related conferences to identify possible >contributors to the LCTDP, and inform the field of its availability > >Manage and maintain the Argus collections database as Project Manager >and overall System Administrator: >* Handle budgets, contracts, upgrades, and negotiations of same >with Questor Systems >* Handle in-house curatorial support requests, user queries, and >software problems as overall system administrator >* Act as liaison between curatorial TM ARGUS users and Questor >Systems support staff > >Qualifications & Requirements: >* M.A. in related field with specialization in textiles a plus. >Database experience required, Argus (Classic or Open Edition) experience >preferred >* Familiarity with textile-related terminology, ethnographic, >historical and archaeological textiles desired >* Background in writing, editing and research skills essential >* Strong administrative, supervisory and leadership skills >- Requires a flexible, cooperative and motivated individual able >to manage and share in team effort to meet project- and museum-wide >goals and deadlines > >The museum offers a competitive salary and benefits. Application >deadline: January 31, 2000. Search Committee, Cotsen Project, The >Textile Museum, 2320 S St NW, Washington DC 20008. 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AAALAAAATm9ybWFsLmRvdAB3HgAAAA0AAABMeWRpYSBGcmFzZXIAIExsHgAAAAIAAAA0AGRpHgAA ABMAAABNaWNyb3NvZnQgV29yZCA4LjAAIEAAAAAAMBoeAQAAAEAAAAAAEqYb+jS/AUAAAAAAoiwg QTy/AUAAAAAAjNU1nkW/AQMAAAABAAAAAwAAALcBAAADAAAAywkAAAMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA== --------------F9E32E5CA1C68F2800897B73 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="nsmail35.TMP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="nsmail35.TMP" --------------F9E32E5CA1C68F2800897B73-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:37:42 -0800 Reply-To: anderson@the-indexer.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charles Anderson Subject: Re: Cited author index In-Reply-To: <0.529f90bc.258a8115@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All good thoughts, Janet Charles -----Original Message----- From: Indexer's Discussion Group [mailto:INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of JPerlman@AOL.COM Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 9:53 AM To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Subject: Re: Cited author index Sharon wrote << BUT I sure want to be paid for my pain. >> My experience has been, with the clients who want author indexes done, that they expect it to be rolled into the same cost. That's why I don't do many. I simply won't do the extra work for the same price. I have found few clients who are willing to pay an extra $1/page for the work of putting together such an index. And at that, it isn't much compensation for the extra painstaking (and boring) work. One reason I don't get too many calls for this type of work is that I work primarily in the sciences. The few clients I have who request a cited author index are among my "general clients", and are in the social sciences. For me it has been an ongoing educational process, to get my clients to realize that they are asking me, as a business person, to do more work for the same money, and that it is not such a minimal task that it should be given away for nothing. Janet Perlman SOUTHWEST INDEXING ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 12:45:54 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Kennedy Subject: Re: IRS (eeeek) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: nkoenig >I have just completed a big project and I am about >to send a BIG bill. I would prefer that the income >be counted in 2000 rather than 1999. Is it >sufficient if I don't get paid until after Jan. 1 or >should I wait to send my invoice until after >Jan. 1? It depends on whether you do your accounting on a cash or an accrual basis. Cash, you count it when you spend it and when you collect it. Accrual, you count it as of the date it's billed, whether by you or to you. There may be some rules about who can use an accrual method; I use the cash method, so I don't know. Carol Kennedy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 13:39:01 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: Cited author index In-Reply-To: <0.529f90bc.258a8115@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I can say that I plan to avoid like the plague any future author cited indexes. The last one took me a full week separate from the subject index, and because of the short deadline and other work I had to hire help at a total cost of nearly $600. I got $4 per page for the job, which was about half what it should have been. I also found it extremely boring and anxiety provoking. I got a lot of good tips and tricks from those of you who do them regularly, but I can't see doing them often myself. And I will most certainly charge an extra $1-3 per page if I do do them. The book I did had at least as many entries in the author index as in the subject index. Not a good hourly rate on that book at all. It looks real good on my list of indexes done, though. Still, just reading the discussions going on now about author indexes is giving me anxiety. Rae Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric racric ICQ 31476947 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 14:00:54 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: Cited author index In-Reply-To: <000101bf4721$f5745d00$0300000a@0rqfz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:29 AM 12/15/99 -0800, Charles Anderson wrote: > >It's been a very long time since I've had to include a "cited author" index >in a work by multiple authors. I'm wondering what the current thinking is >on handling situations where the author of a chapter cites thusly, "Smith et >al. 1996" (with the full list of authors - sometimes three or more - in the >notes at the end of the chapter. Does one index all the et al.'s or only >the primary author? If one doesn't index all the et al.'s, it seems a bit >unfair then when another author in a different chapter doesn't use et al. >but lists say, three authors by name. On the other hand, in the first case, >there will be names indexed that won't appear on the specific page. > >I checked the archives of Index-L which has some references but nothing on >this particular aspect. This topic has been discussed on Index-l but under what heading or headings I don't recall. As in this discussion some people have said they index only the names that appear in the text and others have said they index all the names covered by the et al.'s. Obviously the dilemma of thoroughness vs. accurately reflecting the text persists. One way to resolve this dilemma might be to index all the names covered by the et al.'s and include the operative et al. in a subheading after each name. Thus, using the example offered by Simon Cauchi, >... if on p. 17 there is something like "As is shown by Bloggs et al. (1998) >...", and the Notes or References list "Bloggs, A., Chook, B., Dunstable, C., >Everichone, D., and Fairley, E. . . . the index might read: Bloggs, A., of Bloggs et al., 17 Chook, B., of Bloggs et al., 17 Dunstable, C., of Bloggs et al., 17 Everichone, D., of Bloggs et al., 17 Fairley, E., of Bloggs et al., 17 Also, in books in which the authors themselves are discussed, I think it might be helpful to add the annotation _w_ to citation locators to show that they refer to the works of the authors rather than to the authors themselves. Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 530-272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 14:06:19 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: IRS (eeeek) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This comes up each year, as some of the invoices billed in December are eventually paid in January. Carol is correct -- pick a method, in conjunction with your accountant, and consistently stick with it. If needed to validate when a check arrives, if it is one drawn at the end of the year and received next year, I often keep the postmarked envelope and staple it to or behind the stub in my invoice folder, in case there is an inquiry by the IRS someday. Just don't contradict yourself. That will be something the IRS would probably notice. Janet Perlman ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 11:08:24 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John Posada Subject: Re: IRS (eeeek) Comments: To: nkoenig MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii It applies to when you bill, not get paid. How about splitting the invoice into two parts, one this year and one next year. The customer might even appreciate the staggered billing. --- nkoenig wrote: > I know some of you are old hands at this stuff. > > I have just completed a big project and I am about > to send a BIG bill. I would prefer that the income > be counted in 2000 rather than 1999. Is it > sufficient if I don't get paid until after Jan. 1 or > should I wait to send my invoice until after > Jan. 1? ===== John Posada, Merck Research Laboratories Sr Technical Writer, WinHelp and html (work) john_posada@merck.com - 732-594-0873 (pers) jposada01@yahoo.com - 732-291-7811 "When in trouble, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 14:20:03 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: BECohen653@AOL.COM Subject: Re: IRS (eeeek) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think most indexers use a CASH method of accounting. You make an accounting of the income for the IRS based on when you got the check and deposited it, not when you wrote the invoice. In other words, until you see the check, it isn't income. Barbara E. Cohen Indianapolis, IN ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 14:22:33 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: BECohen653@AOL.COM Subject: Re: IRS (eeeek) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Another thought: Sometimes your 1099 forms won't add up because the payer counted your check as previous year income, and you didn't get the check until the following year. It seems like every year I have one or two situations like this in December and January. When your 1099s don't match, as long as you are declaring what matches your bookkeeping, you are kosher with the IRS. Barbara ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 13:40:43 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: larryNOSPAMh123@HOME.COM Subject: Re: IRS (eeeek) In-Reply-To: <0.68869a05.258a9563@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 2:20 PM -0500 12/16/99, BECohen653@aol.com wrote: >I think most indexers use a CASH method of accounting. You make an accounting >of the income for the IRS based on when you got the check and deposited it, >not when you wrote the invoice. In other words, until you see the check, it >isn't income. > >Barbara E. Cohen >Indianapolis, IN One more, very important, nit for cash basis taxpayers: the date you deposit the check is irrelevant. Only the date you receive it counts. You CANNOT legally shift income by delaying the deposit. That's a good reason to keep the envelope it came in, and a photocopy of the check itself, with your tax records. And, you also CANNOT legally shift income by asking your client to send the check later than their normal payment cycle. I don't know where the limit would be on intentionally billing them late for this purpose, but I expect there could be a problem with that at some point, too. Regards, Larry Harrison Co-Webmaster American Society of Indexers http://www.asindexing.org/ and Secretary/Treasurer, Twin Cities Chapter [please remove NOSPAM to email me directly] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 14:23:24 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: susanhernandez@JUNO.COM Subject: Re: IRS (eeeek) The accural method is for businesses that deal with inventory, so all indexers must use the cash method. According to the H & R Block 1998 Income Tax Guide, "Under the cash method, only income actually or constructively received during the year is included." (pg. 93). If you think they will pay before 31 December, maybe you should wait to send the invoice. - Susan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 14:23:54 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: IRS (eeeek) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:22 PM 12/16/1999 EST, BECohen653@AOL.COM wrote: >Sometimes your 1099 forms won't add up because the payer counted your check >as previous year income, and you didn't get the check until the following >year. It seems like every year I have one or two situations like this in >December and January. When your 1099s don't match, as long as you are >declaring what matches your bookkeeping, you are kosher with the IRS. I can't remember the last time my 1099s matched up exactly with my income. I use MY figures for tax reporting, because they are always more than the 1099s I receive (I do several small jobs a year for which no 1099 is issued, and some of the 1099s are way off on income). I've never had a problem with this, because I always report more income than the IRS has a record of. Sonsie sconroy@slonet.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 10:17:45 +1100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: jon Subject: Re: Cited author index In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Another alternative is to refer from the author who's name is not on the page to the name which will be findable, eg, Bloggs, A. et al. 17 Chook, B., see Bloggs, A. et al. I hate sending users from an index entry to a page on which that index entry does not appear at all. To find it they will have to go to the page, understand what has happened, then check all 'et als' from that page in the references to see which one included Chook or whoever. If one aim of the index is to save the time of the user this method doesn't do it. Glenda. PS thank goodness I rarely do this, and I sympathise with all methods. >Does one index all the et al.'s or only the primary author? All of them. So if on p. 17 there is something like "As is shown by Bloggs et al. (1998) ...", and the Notes or References list "Bloggs, A., Chook, B., Dunstable, C., Everichone, D., Fairley, E., learned article on something or other, etc.", the index should have: Bloggs, A., 17 Chook, B., 17 Dunstable, C., 17 Everichone, D., 17 Fairley, E., 17 A headnote explaining your system would not go amiss, just in case someone looks up p. 17 and is puzzled because Everichone (say) is not mentioned in the text. Simon Cauchi, Hamilton, New Zealand ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:49:57 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SharonSims@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Cited author index MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/16/1999 1:08:31 PM Central Standard Time, brackney@NCCN.NET writes: > the index might read: > > Bloggs, A., of Bloggs et al., 17 > Chook, B., of Bloggs et al., 17 > Dunstable, C., of Bloggs et al., 17 > Everichone, D., of Bloggs et al., 17 > Fairley, E., of Bloggs et al., 17 > > Also, in books in which the authors themselves are discussed, I think it > might be helpful to add the annotation _w_ to citation locators to show > that they refer to the works of the authors rather than to the authors > themselves. > > > Brackney Indexing Service > 134 Kathleen Way > Grass Valley, CA 95945 > 530-272-7088 > > I like Michael's idea except that parentheses would seem to make it a little less confusing, at least to me: Bloggs, A. (of Bloggs et al.), 17 Chook, B. (of Bloggs et al.), 17 Dunstable, C. (of Bloggs et al.), 17 Everichone, D. (of Bloggs et al.), 17 Fairley, E. (of Bloggs et al.), 17 Sharon Sims All Seasons Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 19:09:50 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marilyn Flaig Subject: Re: Cited author index MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I find that entry rate is a more sensible way of charging when author indexes are part of the job. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 20:05:47 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Willa MacAllen Subject: Rates for cited name indexes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi All: What would an appropriate rate for a name index be? Just curious... Willa (who sometimes wonders how I've lasted as a volunteer for the Appalachian Mountain Club for 25 years....).... Willa MacAllen Indexing, Proofreading, Editing, Research MacAllen's Information Services Brighton, MA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 20:08:34 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Willa MacAllen Subject: receiving .pdf files Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi All: I wanted to say thanks, again, to everyone for your helpful suggestions. I appreciated everything and have printed them out to review next week when we attempt to send a .pdf file. Thanks, again. Willa (who should have gone dancing tonite but who felt the need to conserve energy for playing at a Friday nite contra dance and a full Saturday with 2 parties...) Willa MacAllen Indexing, Proofreading, Editing, Research MacAllen's Information Services Brighton, MA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 19:10:08 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: mystic Subject: Re: Locators for subheadings In-Reply-To: <19991215.164757.17822.0.susanhernandez@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Does the above arrangement make sense or should I >>have = >>the subheading "kingship" 10-19? Susan wrote: > I think "10-19" is too long a page range to be really helpful to >the reader. To avoid sub-subs, you can use a cross reference ( kingship >(see Kingship)) to direct the reader to a more detailed break down of the >topic. If the topic discussion isn't continuous, your break up of the >pages would make sense, but still not as helpful as sub-subs or a cross >reference would be. I would still have more detail for the Kingship main >heading (at least three subheadings, more if the discussion warrants it) >than either of the 'stand alone page range' choices give. If kingship is only discussed in one place in the book, then imo neither of the proposed page ranges are inappropriate: (10-19) or (10-15, 16, 17-19). It really depends on the context: the nature of the book. Trying to break down a topic that is only discussed in one place in a text can often be difficult, and one often winds up with all of the locators on each of the subheadings that one was able to construct, which really isn't doing anyone any good and can well be considered cluttering the index. In addition, the construction of those few subheadings may still not address all the details covered in the section. That's why it really depends on the text in question: although certainly I prefer to find ways to break down a long page range, it's not always possible or desirable. --Victoria ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 22:58:44 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Locators for subheadings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All, Building on Victoria's statement that it isn't always possible or appropriate to break down a range of pages if it is the only discussion, I'd like to comment on the suggestion previously made to cross reference from the subheading to the main entry Kingship, where the subentries would break the page range down further. If there are multiple page ranges to deal with, that might be appropriate. But in the situation where this is the only discussion of Kingship, it would be UNdesirable to cross reference. In fact, it would be bad form. From the standpoint of usability, why direct a reader/searcher from one place to a second place when you could have given the page range in the first place. Not good. The goal of the index is to direct the reader to the information he/she is looking for as quickly and directly as possible, and not to make it a fishing expedition. If it is possible to do it on his first "look", then that is the best scenario. If a cross reference is needed (ie, because there are too many undifferentiated locators to list in the subhead), then it is justified. But if you *could* put the single page range here, but instead opt to send him/her from here to there to find the same info, you are doing a disservice. Give the reader/searcher what he/she wants as quickly as possible. Make the search short. You don't withhold information under the guise of giving more of a breakdown somewhere else. You give the 10-19 range in the subhead, then break it down in the main entry if you want to. Janet Perlman SOUTHWEST INDEXING ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 21:47:51 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nina Forrest Subject: Re: Locators for subheadings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Victoria, Janet, et al, Thanks for the feedback. The main problem was that the distinction that the author made with the three consecutive headings about kingship in the book was very subtle (a nice way of saying confusing and unclear to me!), but I was worried that 10-19 was too long for such a broad term as "Kingship of God" (that is the real term, I just used kingship as an example). I guess the question was really "how long a page range is too long" before it should be broken down and there does not seem to be a "rule" for that. As usual, it depends on the text. I agree w/ Janet about the problem of cross-references leading to a small amount of info. I ended up having a number of other subheads for "Kingship of God" so I was able to have a "kosher" cross-reference. If I didn't have other subheads, I would have left the page range of the subhead as 10-19. Question for Janet - What did you mean by "You give the 10-19 range in the subhead, then break it down in the main entry if you want to." As usual, I learned a great deal from asking a "simple" question. Nina ----- Original Message ----- > Nina wrote: > > >I made the following index entry: > > > >Rosh Hashanah > > kingship 10-15, 16, 17-19 > > > >The author has three headings in a row (on the pages shown above) that > >= > >talk about the concept of kingship on Rosh Hashanah but 1) the three = > >discussions have a great deal of overlap and 2) I do not want to use = > >sub-subheadings. Does the above arrangement make sense or should I > >have = > >the subheading "kingship" 10-19? > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 00:14:15 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Cited author index In-Reply-To: <199912160502.AAA02277@bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Time-consuming as it may be, index all authors of all >papers. They are listed in their entirety in the reference section. They >contributed to the work cited. They are being cited as well as the first >author. They should be there. Often, as many as three, four or even five >authors contribute significantly to the work cited. I agree with Dan on this and would add that the order of author's names on papers can be quite arbitrary. So we can't assume that the folks represented by "et. al" are less important. It's true that readers won't actually find all those names on the page. My hope is that academic users are used to "et. al" and will realize what's happening when they don't see the specific name on the page. I charge by the page, according to the density of indexable terms. So, yes, my fee would be higher for this, and I'd have to figure out how much higher by looking at how often that situation comes up. When I have to figure something like that out, I take a sample of a couple of chapters (10-20 pages from each chapter) and simply count up terms, then determine the average for that number of pages. If it comes out to more than 8 terms per page, I charge more than my base rate. In other words, I don't treat this kind of index as intrinsically different from ordinary subject indexes, I just end of with more terms counted per page and charge accordingly. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My indexer@execpc.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer new Web address to come ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 19:24:23 +1100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: jon Subject: Re: On-line indexes In-Reply-To: <199912160155.TAA215572@mail1.doit.wisc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Laura, Is the magazine only available in print form, with the index to be available in print and online, with the online index not linked to the magazine? If so, as far as I know it is no problem at all to load the index onto the web. It is just a matter of converting the index file to HTML format. I know SkyIndex can do this. If the magazine is on the web in HTML format you could index it using HTML Indexer. Alternatively you could create a CINDEX index and convert it with HTML Prep (I think). I index a Bulletin which goes on the web in PDF format. The index is contained in the bulletin, and so goes up in PDF format too. In addition, they put the index up in HTML format, mainly so that the terms get picked up by search engines. It also has the advantage of allowing links from the index to the text, although unfortunately they can only link to issues, not to specific articles within issues. The HTML index also doesn't look as nice as the PDF ones, and has filing problems (all capital letters before all lower case, although I am hoping we can fix that this year). It does have the advantage of being updatable, so it is cumulative whereas the other one has to be searched year by year. To search by subject is easy; to search by Keyword they would have to put in a Search engine; alternatively users can use 'Edit/Find in page' to find individual words. (I can't imagine they'd need keyword searching much if they had a good index) Glenda. 15 December 1999 > >Can you all advise me on on-line indexes and their software? The editors of a scholarly journal have approached me to index the past 72 years of their quarterly magazine. They want a bound paper index and also an on-line one. If any of you have created on-line indexes, can you tell me about them? Can I simply prepare the index on CINDEX and import it into another format for uploading onto a website? Or should I use another kind of software? They would like to search both by subject and by keyword. Any advice from the collective wisdom would be much appreciated--as always. Thanks in advance!-- >--Laura Moss Gottlieb, Freelance Indexer > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 08:30:23 -0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Paul R. Joiner" Subject: Changing ISP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would much appreciate it if some kind soul let me know the correct way to unsubscribe myself from the group using this ISP and subscribe using my new ISP? I have lost my initial message in a hard drive crash some time ago. I will try to keep the instructions safely this time - he says in all honesty! ;-) Regards Paul Paul R. Joiner Greystones, The Spital, Yarm-on-Tees, Yorkshire, TS15 9EX Tel. +44 (0)1642 782957 http://homepages.enterprise.net/pjoiner/ http://website.lineone.net/~pjoiner/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 07:41:09 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Willa MacAllen Subject: Re: Locators for subheadings In-Reply-To: <007301bf4849$e47ef040$b7b7cdcf@nina> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >Question for Janet - What did you mean by "You give the 10-19 range in the >subhead, then break it down in the main entry if you want to." Hi All: Thanks for asking that question. I was wondering about the same thing. Willa (looking forward to playing at a contra dance tonite....) Willa MacAllen Indexing, Proofreading, Editing, Research MacAllen's Information Services Brighton, MA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 08:50:41 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dan Connolly Subject: Re: Locators for subheadings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Off course slightly here-- Being the fly in the ointment, does anyone have any guidelines as far as what an acceptable range length for page references should be, given the overall length of the book? Is there a length over which one should not go, under any circumstances? So, for instance, in a 200-pg. sports trade book, with 4 references per page, what might an acceptable range be? How about a 600-pg. special ed textbook with 8 references per page? I'm leaning toward thinking there is a limit above which you should not go. I'm just not sure what that might be. Also, and this goes practically without saying, ranges have to be context/text-sensitive. No numbers are absolute, but are there guidelines? Asking yet again, Dan ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Daniel A. Connolly ---> mailto:connolly@neca.com Word For Word Indexing Services ---> http://www.wfwIndex.necaweb.com Indexstudents List ---> http://www.wfwIndex.necaweb.com/indexstudents.htm (new website design coming soon!!) ----- Original Message ----- From: Nina Forrest To: Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 11:47 PM Subject: Re: Locators for subheadings > Victoria, Janet, et al, > Thanks for the feedback. The main problem was that the distinction that the > author made with the three consecutive headings about kingship in the book > was very subtle (a nice way of saying confusing and unclear to me!), but I > was worried that 10-19 was too long for such a broad term as "Kingship of > God" (that is the real term, I just used kingship as an example). I guess > the question was really "how long a page range is too long" before it should > be broken down and there does not seem to be a "rule" for that. As usual, it > depends on the text. > > I agree w/ Janet about the problem of cross-references leading to a small > amount of info. I ended up having a number of other subheads for "Kingship > of God" so I was able to have a "kosher" cross-reference. If I didn't have > other subheads, I would have left the page range of the subhead as 10-19. > > Question for Janet - What did you mean by "You give the 10-19 range in the > subhead, then break it down in the main entry if you want to." > > As usual, I learned a great deal from asking a "simple" question. > Nina > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > Nina wrote: > > > > >I made the following index entry: > > > > > >Rosh Hashanah > > > kingship 10-15, 16, 17-19 > > > > > >The author has three headings in a row (on the pages shown above) that > > >= > > >talk about the concept of kingship on Rosh Hashanah but 1) the three = > > >discussions have a great deal of overlap and 2) I do not want to use = > > >sub-subheadings. Does the above arrangement make sense or should I > > >have = > > >the subheading "kingship" 10-19? > > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 08:50:19 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Locators for subheadings - what I meant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nina, Willa, What I meant: Use the heading: Rosh Hashanah kingship 10-19 and don't try to break down into subheadings here. (Some would keep the page number just as you had them here, ie, 10-15, 16, 17-19. You could make a case for that too.) The important thing is not to try to break it down further here. Then, also use Kingship as a main heading, and that's where I'd break it down. So you'd have the heading Kingship with 3 subheadings AAAA, 16 BBB, 10-15 XXXX, 17-19 Break those odd page numbers down into subheadings only under the main heading Kingship. Where it appears as a subheading, use the larger page range. Thanks for asking. And remember -- this isn't set in stone. It is only *my* suggested way of handling things. Janet Perlman SOUTHWEST INDEXING ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 09:38:27 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Willa MacAllen Subject: Re: Locators for subheadings - what I meant In-Reply-To: <0.c73a7266.258b999b@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >Thanks for asking. And remember -- this isn't set in stone. It is only *my* >suggested way of handling things. > >Janet Perlman >SOUTHWEST INDEXING Hi All: I know this isue is not etched in stone. However, discussing such issues in an environment like this is a great way of showing how others approach specific indexing-related problems. Willa MacAllen Indexing, Proofreading, Editing, Research MacAllen's Information Services Brighton, MA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 10:37:47 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: Locators for subheadings Dan wrote: > Being the fly in the ointment, does anyone have any guidelines as far as > what an acceptable range length for page references should be, given the > overall length of the book? Is there a length over which one should not > go, > under any circumstances? So, for instance, in a 200-pg. sports trade book, > with 4 references per page, what might an acceptable range be? > > How about a 600-pg. special ed textbook with 8 references per page? > > I'm leaning toward thinking there is a limit above which you should not > go. > I'm just not sure what that might be. Also, and this goes practically > without saying, ranges have to be context/text-sensitive. No numbers are > absolute, but are there guidelines? > I think that common sense has to be your rule of thumb. The Golden Rule of Indexing is: Is it helpful to the user? In a 200 page book about sports, a reference that said: Sports, pp. 1 to 200 or, better yet: Sports, p. 1 et seq. would be totally useless. On the other hand, giving chapter long ranges might be useful in one or two general locations. Football, pp. 22 to 48. offensive strategies, pp. 28 to 32. defensive line ups, pp. 42 to 44. Payton, Walter (Sweetness), pp. 29, 31. I think you have to use your own judgment. -- Sharon W. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 08:30:27 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: On-line indexes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just a couple of points related to Glenda's message... She wrote: > > It also has the advantage of allowing links from the index to > the text, although unfortunately they can only link to issues, > not to specific articles within issues. HTML Indexer *does not* include this limitation. You can create index entries that point to any valid HTML target. > The HTML index also doesn't look as nice as the PDF ones, and > has filing problems (all capital letters before all lower case... "Nice" is a subjective term :) but HTML Indexer handles sorting as you would expect. > > [The index] does have the advantage of being updatable, so it > is cumulative This is one of the greatest benefits of using HTML Indexer. > > ... In addition, they put the index up in HTML format, mainly > so that the terms get picked up by search engines. HTML Indexer seeds this for you, too. > > (I can't imagine they'd need keyword searching much if > they had a good index) We couldn't agree more! --David ============================= David M. Brown - Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ============================= A V A I L A B L E N O W ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ HTML Indexer 3, still the easiest way to create and maintain real back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. Now including options for HTML Help and JavaHelp indexes, too! - ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 10:43:51 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kevin Campbell Subject: Re: Cited author index MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My hunch is that the vast majority of author index users will be those who are immersed in the discipline, and they will be using it to see whether the contributions of certain researchers (including, perhaps, themselves) are being recognized. Thus I don't think the issue of "et al.s" not appearing in the text is as confusing as it may seem. Kevin Campbell Greenleaf Editorial LLC ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 11:23:23 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Cited author index In-Reply-To: <199912170502.AAA01537@bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> the index might read: >> >> Bloggs, A., of Bloggs et al., 17 >> Chook, B., of Bloggs et al., 17 >> Dunstable, C., of Bloggs et al., 17 >> Everichone, D., of Bloggs et al., 17 >> Fairley, E., of Bloggs et al., 17 >Bloggs, A. (of Bloggs et al.), 17 >Chook, B. (of Bloggs et al.), 17 >Dunstable, C. (of Bloggs et al.), 17 >Everichone, D. (of Bloggs et al.), 17 >Fairley, E. (of Bloggs et al.), 17 This is such a clever solution! I love it! Now if we combine that with scanning in the bibliography, perhaps doing that kind of index wouldn't really be so painful. I could see scanning the biblio, then using a macro of some sort on any entry that would generate an "et. al" in the text (i.e., strings of more than two names) to create a series of entries like those above, with dummy locators. You'd want to include dates in hidden text, because any given author could do collaborative work with different groups. Or is this just a pipe dream? Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My indexer@execpc.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer new Web address to come ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 09:55:29 -0800 Reply-To: anderson@the-indexer.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charles Anderson Subject: Re: Cited author index In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You would need a very intelligent macro, because there could be two (or more) different Dunstables (Dunstable, C. and Dunstable, J.) cited by Bloggs, A., in two different references, which you only pick up by the date of the citation (Bloggs 1994 and Bloggs 1987). Bottom line is it's a mess no matter what. Charles -----Original Message----- From: Indexer's Discussion Group [mailto:INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Carol Roberts Sent: Friday, December 17, 1999 9:23 AM To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Subject: Re: Cited author index >> the index might read: >> >> Bloggs, A., of Bloggs et al., 17 >> Chook, B., of Bloggs et al., 17 >> Dunstable, C., of Bloggs et al., 17 >> Everichone, D., of Bloggs et al., 17 >> Fairley, E., of Bloggs et al., 17 >Bloggs, A. (of Bloggs et al.), 17 >Chook, B. (of Bloggs et al.), 17 >Dunstable, C. (of Bloggs et al.), 17 >Everichone, D. (of Bloggs et al.), 17 >Fairley, E. (of Bloggs et al.), 17 This is such a clever solution! I love it! Now if we combine that with scanning in the bibliography, perhaps doing that kind of index wouldn't really be so painful. I could see scanning the biblio, then using a macro of some sort on any entry that would generate an "et. al" in the text (i.e., strings of more than two names) to create a series of entries like those above, with dummy locators. You'd want to include dates in hidden text, because any given author could do collaborative work with different groups. Or is this just a pipe dream? Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My indexer@execpc.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer new Web address to come ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 14:49:37 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christin Keck Subject: Re: Changing ISP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paul R. Joiner wrote: > > I would much appreciate it if some kind soul let me know the correct way to > unsubscribe myself from > the group using this ISP and subscribe using my new ISP? > > I have lost my initial message in a hard drive crash some time ago. I will > try to keep the instructions safely this time - he says in all honesty! > ;-) > > Regards Paul, your newsgroup settings and the ones you are subscribed to are inherent in your browser, not your Internet Service Provider. If you are still using the same browser, you should still have all your newsgroups subscriptions. -- CK, or as they say in Spain, "Yes, what?" Visit my domain http://www.seekaye.com or the World of Whislbabe in Geocities, SoHo/Square/4033 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 14:44:37 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kamm Y. Schreiner" Subject: *** SKY Index Professional Demo Update *** MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: MULTIPART/ALTERNATIVE; BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_dp0Tqidag8DyHesRNf3Jvw)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_dp0Tqidag8DyHesRNf3Jvw) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi Everyone, For those of you testing indexing programs, the SKY Index demo has been updated. It includes many new features. If you would like to find out more and for a list of new features, please visit my Web site at http://www.sky-software.com. Happy Indexing! Sincerely, Kamm Schreiner ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Professional Indexing Software for Professional Indexers SKY Software 350 Montgomery Circle Stephens City, VA 22655 Email: kamm@sky-software.com Web: http://www.sky-software.com Phone: (800) 776-0137 or (540) 869-6581 Fax: (540) 869-6581 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ --Boundary_(ID_dp0Tqidag8DyHesRNf3Jvw) Content-type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Hi=20 Everyone,
 
For = those of you=20 testing indexing programs, the SKY Index demo has been updated. It = includes many=20 new features. If you would like to find out more and for a list of new = features,=20 please visit my Web site at http://www.sky-software.com.
 
Happy=20 Indexing!

Sincerely,

Kamm=20 Schreiner

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Professional=20 Indexing Software for Professional Indexers

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Email: = kamm@sky-software.com=20 <mailto:kamm@sky-software.com>= ;
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Phone: (800) 776-0137 = or (540)=20 869-6581
Fax: (540)=20 869-6581
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ =

--Boundary_(ID_dp0Tqidag8DyHesRNf3Jvw)-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 20:46:07 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Shana Milkie Subject: Re: Changing ISP In-Reply-To: <385A93D1.377FC361@concentric.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I copied this information from the ASI web site area which describes the on-line discussion lists. What Paul should do first is unsubscribe (using the SIGNOFF command below) using the e-mail address with his old ISP and then subscribe sending the note using his e-mail address from his new ISP. - Shana Milkie P.S. The web site is: http://www.asindexing.org/discgrps.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------- To subscribe to INDEX-L, send a note to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU with the body of the message consisting of SUBSCRIBE INDEX-L firstname lastname (with your own first and last names). No other information should be added to the body of the message. As with other messages to mailing list programs, disable the automatic signature option of your email program on this message. You will receive confirmation of your subscription shortly thereafter. To unsubscribe, send a message to the same place, with SIGNOFF INDEX-L in the message body. Do not include your name in this message. To get a list of other commands that can be used with this mailing list, write to the same address and put INFO REFCARD in the body of your message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 07:16:51 +1300 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Simon Cauchi Subject: Re: Cited author index Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> the index might read: >>> >>> Bloggs, A., of Bloggs et al., 17 >>> Chook, B., of Bloggs et al., 17 >>> Dunstable, C., of Bloggs et al., 17 >>> Everichone, D., of Bloggs et al., 17 >>> Fairley, E., of Bloggs et al., 17 > I agree with Carol Roberts that this is a clever solution, but it has the disadvantage (as, I regret to say, many of Michael Brackney's ingenious proposals do) of being contrary to customary practice. Every author index I have examined has had only the bare names, with no parenthetical qualifiers. (No doubt an author index entry with a qualifier can be found somewhere, but I have not yet seen one.) Brackney's proposal would require the addition of qualifiers to a goodly number of entries---about 10%, if the most recent author index I did is any guide. Moreover, if there are only three or four citations at the most on any one page, and only one or two of these are in the form "Bloggs et al.", then it should be obvious to all but the dimmest reader that "Everichone, D." will be one of the "et al." authors. No doubt special cases will require special solutions sometimes (e.g. a dozen or more multi-author citations per page, or a dozen authors all called Smith, J.), but as a general rule I think my original proposal holds good: names only, and all the names. Author indexes, it seems to me, are one type of index where the indexing really does need to be "all-inclusive" (to borrow M.D. Anderson's term) or "comprehensive" (to quote the 1999 AusSI leaflet, Guide to Indexing Services). However, I note that Wellisch, 2nd edn, p. 352, argues that "it is now virtually impossible to list in a periodical index the names of all cited authors (not to mention their numerous coauthors)". Simon Cauchi, Hamilton, New Zealand ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 21:11:08 +1100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: jon Subject: Re: On-line indexes In-Reply-To: <385A6523.8FA0C317@brown-inc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My previous message must have been unclear in a number of areas. The reason that the HTML index can only link to issues is that the issues are in PDF format with no internal anchors. As I understand it they therefore have no valid HTML target no matter what method is used to create the index. The HTML index that looks ugly is not one created by HTML Indexer, but one created from database output by the web people at the department. A periodical index has some very long entries (article titles and authors) and these are not attractive in this index. An HTML index does not have to be ugly; just in this case it is. Part of the reason is web limitations; part is the fact that people have spent time and trouble making the PDF one look pretty; the HTML one is just put up quickly to give extra information. Some book indexers always check the proofs of their index to make sure things look OK; on the web this is absolutely crucial as there are so many slips twixt the indexing and the loading of it. I think web indexers need continual contact with webmasters to ensure that presentation and other features of indexes are dealt with appropriately. Glenda. David wrote: Just a couple of points related to Glenda's message... She wrote: > > It also has the advantage of allowing links from the index to > the text, although unfortunately they can only link to issues, > not to specific articles within issues. HTML Indexer *does not* include this limitation. You can create index entries that point to any valid HTML target. > The HTML index also doesn't look as nice as the PDF ones, and > has filing problems (all capital letters before all lower case... "Nice" is a subjective term :) but HTML Indexer handles sorting as you would expect. > > [The index] does have the advantage of being updatable, so it > is cumulative This is one of the greatest benefits of using HTML Indexer. > > ... In addition, they put the index up in HTML format, mainly > so that the terms get picked up by search engines. HTML Indexer seeds this for you, too. > > (I can't imagine they'd need keyword searching much if > they had a good index) We couldn't agree more! --David ============================= David M. Brown - Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ============================= A V A I L A B L E N O W ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ HTML Indexer 3, still the easiest way to create and maintain real back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. Now including options for HTML Help and JavaHelp indexes, too! - ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 12:11:31 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lillian Ashworth Subject: Pakistani names, sorting of Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" All: I'm stumped on two Pakistani names: Zulfikar Ali Bhutto and Zia ul-Haq. How should they be listed? My draft has the following style: Bhutto, Zulfikar Ali Zia ul-Haq but I'm wondering if it shouldn't be Ali Bhutto, Zulfikar, but sort under "Bhutto". These listings are inconsistent, as I think Zia is a "first" name; but, following Mulvany's suggestion to "follow the author's use in text" (p.169), I used the two different name order entries. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. TIA, Lillian Ashworth ashworth@pullman.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 13:41:24 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J. Naomi Linzer" Subject: Re: On-line indexes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, >Some book indexers always check the proofs of their index to make sure >things look OK; on the web this is absolutely crucial as there are so many >slips twixt the indexing and the loading of it. I think web indexers need >continual contact with webmasters to ensure that presentation and other >features of indexes are dealt with appropriately. This thread on on-line indexes has been very timely for me. I have been approached to put in a bid for an index of products/herbs/uses now in print (with a pecularly useless index) by someone who used to sell the product. They want to pitch the company to put an index on CD-ROM, and eventually on their website. I will be sure to include a rate for consultations with the webmasters when the time comes. Naomi ****************************************************************************** J. NAOMI LINZER Indexing Services P.O. Box 1341 ~ 459 Redway Drive ~ Redway, CA 95560-1341 jnlinzer@saber.net ~ 707/923-4361 ~ Fax: 360/838-5620 ****************************************************************************** http://www.asindexing.org/ <-- American Society of Indexers website. ****************************************************************************** ^Ý ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 15:27:51 -0800 Reply-To: nkoenig Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: nkoenig Subject: Re: Pakistani names, sorting of MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Britannica and Encarta both have entries under Bhutto, Zulfikar Ali. Mohammad seems to be Zia ul-Haq's first name, again according to the former sources. So Zia ul-Haq, Mohammad oughta fly. Nick Koenig >All: > >I'm stumped on two Pakistani names: > >Zulfikar Ali Bhutto and Zia ul-Haq. > >How should they be listed? My draft has the following style: > >Bhutto, Zulfikar Ali >Zia ul-Haq > >but I'm wondering if it shouldn't be Ali Bhutto, Zulfikar, but sort under >"Bhutto". > >These listings are inconsistent, as I think Zia is a "first" name; but, >following Mulvany's suggestion to "follow the author's use in text" (p.169), >I used the two different name order entries. > >Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. > >TIA, > >Lillian Ashworth >ashworth@pullman.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 21:51:47 -0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: trying to locate Paul Nash MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF4A6B.3F9EEFC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF4A6B.3F9EEFC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all,=20 I did to contact Paul Nash. Does anyone out there have his email = address? Please reply to me off-list so as to not disturb the other list members. = =20 Thank you, Sylvia Coates ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF4A6B.3F9EEFC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all,
 
I did to contact Paul Nash. Does anyone = out there=20 have his email address?
 
Please reply to me off-list so as to = not disturb=20 the other list members. 
 
 
Thank you,
 
Sylvia = Coates
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF4A6B.3F9EEFC0-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 21:55:11 -0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: oops! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01BF4A6B.B9355720" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BF4A6B.B9355720 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry! What I meant to say was "I need to contact Paul Nash." I am = obviously also in desperate need of a vacation :-). Sylvia Coates ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BF4A6B.B9355720 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sorry! What I meant to say was "I need = to contact=20 Paul Nash."  I am obviously also in desperate need of a vacation=20 :-).
 
Sylvia = Coates
------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BF4A6B.B9355720-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 11:41:33 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Organization: Binghamton University Subject: Index-l holiday matters MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I will be out of touch from Wednesday, December 22 until January 2. This should have no effect on the operation of index-l and your messages will be delivered and recieved as usual. This goes for January 1 as well. The folks in charge of the listserv server here tell me that they do not plan to shut down the server during the transition to the new year. However...in the event that the transition is not smooth and you stop receiving messages during this time, please do not send messages to index-l find out if there is something wrong. Chances are that no one will see the message and it will bounce around and end up eventually in my mailbox. I will not see it either. Just sit tight and wait until Jan 2. Here's a couple of reminders: 1.Those of you who will be away from your computers for any length of time, please remember to set index-l to nomail. To do this send the following message to listserv@listserv.binghamton.edu set index-l nomail put nothing else in the body of the message and leave the subject line blank. 2. Be judicious in your messages to index-l. That is, stay on-topic and be kind to each other. Not that this is not usually the case...a reminder never hurts. If you have questions, I will be available today and tomorrow..so please feel free contact me-- skuster@binghamton.edu Happy Holidays to you all. -- Charlotte Skuster Index-l moderator Phone: (607) 777-4122 Fax: (607) 777-2274 skuster@binghamton.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 18:28:15 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Robin Hilp Subject: Portland, Oregon, USA: Seeking a Speaker MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear Collective Wisdom, I'm looking for a speaker or three ... If you'll be in Portland the evening of Jan 10th, would you be interested in presenting to a small group? I'm hoping for enough volunteers so we can have a 3-person panel. Topic: "Current Trends in Online Indexing" ... I'd like to discuss the variety of online publications that are needing to be indexed, and how the publication format or medium affects the index format and content. There are a lot of different formats of online publications, for example: PDF collections, "traditional" HTML websites, delivered (ASP) pages, image collections, database portals, and probably others I haven't thought of. And of course the specific purpose of any website affects how it's best indexed -- from the content of the index to the tools used to create it. Each sort of site has its own indexing tricks and challenges and philosophy. I've seen some comments on this list recently that indicate we have among us some good ideas & experience in indexing quite a range of online formats, and I'm hoping to tap that for this meeting ... The presentation is sponsored by the Society for Technical Communication, Willamette Valley Chapter, Indexing SIG and Online SIG. It's open to STC members and non-members. It'll be announced on various relevant email lists and in the Oregonian newspaper, so (based on experience) we can expect an interested crowd with a range of backgrounds. The schedule is for 6:30 to 8 pm on Jan 10th. We'll have half an hour or so before 6:30 for networking and again after 8 for Q&A. My budget allows a small honorarium for each speaker -- something like a restaurant or bookstore gift certificate. Please reply to Robin Hilp, rolybear@yahoo.com, if you're interested in participating. Thank you very much! RAH __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 21:04:52 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nina Forrest Subject: Meaning of versus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01BF4B2D.DC3474A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BF4B2D.DC3474A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Folks, I have a number of index entries that reflect a comparison between = items. For example, physical world and spiritual world. I made the entry = as "physical world versus spiritual world." When I looked up "versus" in = the dictionary, the first definition was "against" and the second = definition was "compared to" so I'm not what "versus" implies in a = non-legal sense.=20 Should the entry be: 1. physical world versus spiritual world 2. physical world vs. spiritual world 3. physical world compared to spiritual world 4. One of the above but leave out the first "world", as in physical = versus spiritual world 5. Another choice TIA, Nina ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BF4B2D.DC3474A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Folks,
I have a number of index entries that reflect a = comparison=20 between items. For example, physical world and spiritual world. I made = the entry=20 as "physical world versus spiritual world." When I looked up "versus" in = the=20 dictionary, the first definition was "against" and the second definition = was=20 "compared to" so I'm not what "versus" implies in a non-legal = sense.=20
 
Should the entry be:
1. physical world versus spiritual = world
2. physical world vs. spiritual world
3. physical world compared to spiritual = world
4. One of the above but leave out the first = "world", as=20 in physical versus spiritual world
5. Another choice
 
TIA, Nina
------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BF4B2D.DC3474A0-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 00:44:04 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Meaning of versus In-Reply-To: <199912210501.AAA02125@bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Should the entry be: >1. physical world versus spiritual world >2. physical world vs. spiritual world >3. physical world compared to spiritual world >4. One of the above but leave out the first "world", as in physical = >versus spiritual world >5. Another choice I use "vs." all the time to compare two things. I would write two entries: physical vs. spiritual world spiritual vs. physical world (or cross-ref. if there are enough locators to warrant it). Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My indexer@execpc.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer new Web address to come ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 08:16:51 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Beverlee and Doug Subject: Rewriting an Index Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hello everyone, I need some advice regarding how to price rewriting an index. I had done a 640 page book a couple of weeks ago. It turns out that the pagination was off and now the index needs to be rewritten. The editor said she would hire me to do it over again. I said I could charge her a flat fee since I wouldn't be indexing the book entirely again. I just received the "second" page proofs. The new pagination starts on page 71. I am to call her and we are going to discuss a price. I have never charged for something like this before and I am wondering how you would approach it. Any suggestions? I was thinking of charging half of the price per page I received for the first index starting from page 71. Since I won't be reading the text again, I figure I am being paid to put the terms in the computer and edit the text. I plan to have my original page proofs next to my new page proofs and re-enter the terms from the old page proofs using the new page proof pagination. Any other suggestions? Any input is appreciated! Thanks very much, Beverlee Day Guided by Words Indexing b3day@bitstream.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 06:46:53 -0800 Reply-To: spreadword@excite.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Beti Spangel Subject: Re: Meaning of versus Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I vote for #s 4 and 1: physical vs. spiritual world. It is clear (the top priority) and takes less space than writing everything out. Also, I don't think anyone would question the exact legal meaning of "vs." versus "versus." I'd like to see how others think this should be set up. Beti Spangel Spread the Word Indexing spreadword@excite.com On Mon, 20 Dec 1999 21:04:52 -0700, Indexer's Discussion Group wrote: > Hi Folks, > I have a number of index entries that reflect a comparison between items. For example, physical world and spiritual world. I made the entry as "physical world versus spiritual world." When I looked up "versus" in the dictionary, the first definition was "against" and the second definition was "compared to" so I'm not what "versus" implies in a non-legal sense. > > Should the entry be: > 1. physical world versus spiritual world > 2. physical world vs. spiritual world > 3. physical world compared to spiritual world > 4. One of the above but leave out the first "world", as in physical versus spiritual world > 5. Another choice > > TIA, Nina _______________________________________________________ Visit Excite Shopping at http://shopping.excite.com The fastest way to find your Holiday gift this season ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 10:13:21 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diane Brenner Subject: Re: Rewriting an Index MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This sounds like a situation where an hourly rate would be appropriate. Just keep track of the time it takes you to do what is probably going to be a fairly mechanical task. That should seem fair both for you and the editor. The actual rate should depend on what your fee scale is to start with and what you can negotiate with your editor. Diane Beverlee and Doug wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I need some advice regarding how to price rewriting an index. I had done a > 640 page book a couple of weeks ago. It turns out that the pagination was > off and now the index needs to be rewritten. The editor said she would hire > me to do it over again. I said I could charge her a flat fee since I > wouldn't be indexing the book entirely again. I just received the "second" > page proofs. The new pagination starts on page 71. I am to call her and we > are going to discuss a price. I have never charged for something like this > before and I am wondering how you would approach it. Any suggestions? > I was thinking of charging half of the price per page I received for the > first index starting from page 71. Since I won't be reading the text again, > I figure I am being paid to put the terms in the computer and edit the text. > I plan to have my original page proofs next to my new page proofs and > re-enter the terms from the old page proofs using the new page proof > pagination. Any other suggestions? > Any input is appreciated! > Thanks very much, > > Beverlee Day > Guided by Words Indexing > b3day@bitstream.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 08:22:17 -0800 Reply-To: anderson@the-indexer.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charles Anderson Subject: Re: Rewriting an Index In-Reply-To: <199912211421.IAA04154@bitstream.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you were using Cindex and the only change was to add 71 to every page reference (that is, the actual placement of terms on pages hasn't changed, just the page number) then you could just use Cindex's "Alter Reference" command. I would have thought other indexing software like Macrex or Sky Index (whatever you're using) had the same capability. Or maybe I'm missing something. Charles R. Anderson the-indexer.com PO Box 15642, Seattle, WA 98115-0642 5028 37th Ave. NE, Seattle, WA 98105 (non-USPS deliveries) Voice: 206-985-8799, 206-524-6624 Cell Phone: 206-841-5209 Fax: 206-985-8796 (fax) Web: http://www.the-indexer.com E-Mail: anderson@the-indexer.com -----Original Message----- From: Indexer's Discussion Group [mailto:INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Beverlee and Doug Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 6:17 AM To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Subject: Rewriting an Index Hello everyone, I need some advice regarding how to price rewriting an index. I had done a 640 page book a couple of weeks ago. It turns out that the pagination was off and now the index needs to be rewritten. The editor said she would hire me to do it over again. I said I could charge her a flat fee since I wouldn't be indexing the book entirely again. I just received the "second" page proofs. The new pagination starts on page 71. I am to call her and we are going to discuss a price. I have never charged for something like this before and I am wondering how you would approach it. Any suggestions? I was thinking of charging half of the price per page I received for the first index starting from page 71. Since I won't be reading the text again, I figure I am being paid to put the terms in the computer and edit the text. I plan to have my original page proofs next to my new page proofs and re-enter the terms from the old page proofs using the new page proof pagination. Any other suggestions? Any input is appreciated! Thanks very much, Beverlee Day Guided by Words Indexing b3day@bitstream.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 13:03:24 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Paula Durbin-Westby Subject: Re: Rewriting an Index MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I charge an hourly rate. I base the rate on my average dollar per hour. Paula Durbin-Westby ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 13:52:16 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: EMickiT@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Meaning of versus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/21/1999 8:59:19 AM Central Standard Time, spreadword@EXCITE.COM writes: << I vote for #s 4 and 1: physical vs. spiritual world. >> I use this all the time. I set Cindex to put "vs." in italics, as it is Latin. Erin (Micki) Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 15:07:37 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Rewriting an Index MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To new indexers faced with the problem of updating or rewriting an index, This topic has been discussed before on Index-L. To recap..... I too have charged an hourly rate. It can add up to a lot of money, depending on how much there is to do. It may not pay for the publisher to do this. It may keep publisher's costs down (believe it or not!) to pay for a new index. If you can have your software update the page numbers automatically (ie, if you just need to add a number to the existing page # uniformly through the book), that is terrific. That is not usually the case. More often than not, text has been added and/or deleted, and you have to work with both sets of page proof and a copy of the index in page number order (your software can do this for you too), comparing the 2 sets of proof, and updating the page numbers. You will need to work carefully, very carefully, putting some symbol next to the new page numbers so you know they are the new ones and not the old ones, which have been changed and which have not. Otherwise you'll drive yourself crazy. Or put all the old page numbers in bold face, and the new once in light face. Then if you have boldface numbers, you know they are old and must be updated. Some scheme like that to differentiate old from new. You would fix the typface or delete the symbol as the last step in completing the index. It is nitpicky work, and you must be very careful about deleting the entries that refer to deleted material. That part always makes me nervous. It is easy to spot added material while scanning and comparing the proof -- not so easy to spot deleted material. Even a deleted sentence can make a difference if it generated index entries. Many of us (1) do not like to do this work, and (2) re-index the book, rather than fix the old index. I have started on a fix/update, and gotten through a couple of chapters, and chucked the entire thing and re-indexed. At the rate it would have jacked up an hourly bill, it would have cost more that way than having the publisher pay for a new index. There are others on the list who can corroborate this. I know. And I still would have been unsure if it was a correct index, due to deletions. So this is the deal here. If there isn't too much fixing, and it's just rearranged material, you can go with a re-do or fix-it-up. If there are major sections added and deleted, might as well re-do the index. Hope this helps. Janet Perlman SOUTHWEST INDEXING ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 07:37:06 +1100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: jon Subject: Re: Meaning of versus In-Reply-To: <001301bf4b68$90e3e680$56a58ad1@nina> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01BF4C4F.58E39360" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01BF4C4F.58E39360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All sound fine. I would probably choose 3 if comparison is the most specific word possible. I would leave in both worlds. I once used versus in an index. I would have chosen vs. but the style manual i used had v. The editor requested versus in full as she didn't think people would know what v. (or vs.) stood for. Glenda. Hi Folks, I have a number of index entries that reflect a comparison between items. For example, physical world and spiritual world. I made the entry as "physical world versus spiritual world." When I looked up "versus" in the dictionary, the first definition was "against" and the second definition was "compared to" so I'm not what "versus" implies in a non-legal sense. Should the entry be: 1. physical world versus spiritual world 2. physical world vs. spiritual world 3. physical world compared to spiritual world 4. One of the above but leave out the first "world", as in physical versus spiritual world 5. Another choice TIA, Nina ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01BF4C4F.58E39360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
All sound fine. I would probably choose 3 if = comparison=20 is the most specific word possible. I would leave in both worlds.=20
 
I once used versus in an index. I would have = chosen vs.=20 but the style manual i used had v. The editor requested versus in = full as=20 she didn't think people would know what v. (or vs.) stood=20 for. 

 Glenda.=20  
Hi Folks,
I have a number of index entries that reflect a = comparison=20 between items. For example, physical world and spiritual world. I made = the=20 entry as "physical world versus spiritual world." When I looked up = "versus" in=20 the dictionary, the first definition was "against" and the second = definition=20 was "compared to" so I'm not what "versus" implies in a non-legal = sense.=20
 
Should the entry be:
1. physical world versus spiritual = world
2. physical world vs. spiritual world
3. physical world compared to spiritual = world
4. One of the above but leave out the first = "world", as=20 in physical versus spiritual world
5. Another choice
 
TIA, Nina
------=_NextPart_000_0003_01BF4C4F.58E39360-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 14:08:48 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: Meaning of versus In-Reply-To: <0.c75c3116.25912660@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Erin (Micki) Taylor >I use this all the time. I set Cindex to put "vs." in italics, as it is >Latin. An alternative viewpoint: Chicago calls for roman or italics for vs in legal citations, as long as use is consistent (7.72). In textual use, for which a period is preferred (vs.), I don't think italics is necessary. There are many latin terms in English that are not handled as foreign words, and that too is provided for in Chicago. --Victoria vbaker@asis.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 15:09:11 -0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: Macrex can too! (was Rewriting an Index) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Macrex also has this capability and I have used this handy little feature many times to the delight of my editors! I haven't yet found, even after several hundred indexes, an indexing need that Macrex hasn't been able to supply quite nicely. Best, Sylvia Coates ----- Original Message ----- From: Sylvia Coates To: Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 2:47 PM Subject: Re: Re: Macrex can too! (was Rewriting an Index) > Macrex also has this capability and I have used this handy little feature > many times to the delight of my editors! I haven't yet found, even after > several hundred indexes, an indexing need that Macrex hasn't been able to > supply quite nicely. > > Best, > Sylvia Coates > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Charles Anderson > To: > Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 4:22 PM > Subject: Re: Rewriting an Index > > > > If you were using Cindex and the only change was to add 71 to every page > > reference (that is, the actual placement of terms on pages hasn't changed, > > just the page number) then you could just use Cindex's "Alter Reference" > > command. I would have thought other indexing software like Macrex or Sky > > Index (whatever you're using) had the same capability. Or maybe I'm > missing > > something. > > > > Charles R. Anderson > > the-indexer.com > > PO Box 15642, Seattle, WA 98115-0642 > > 5028 37th Ave. NE, Seattle, WA 98105 (non-USPS deliveries) > > Voice: 206-985-8799, 206-524-6624 > > Cell Phone: 206-841-5209 > > Fax: 206-985-8796 (fax) > > Web: http://www.the-indexer.com > > E-Mail: anderson@the-indexer.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Indexer's Discussion Group > > [mailto:INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Beverlee and Doug > > Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 6:17 AM > > To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > > Subject: Rewriting an Index > > > > > > Hello everyone, > > > > I need some advice regarding how to price rewriting an index. I > > had done a > > 640 page book a couple of weeks ago. It turns out that the > > pagination was > > off and now the index needs to be rewritten. The editor said > > she would hire > > me to do it over again. I said I could charge her a flat fee since I > > wouldn't be indexing the book entirely again. I just received > > the "second" > > page proofs. The new pagination starts on page 71. I am to call > > her and we > > are going to discuss a price. I have never charged for > > something like this > > before and I am wondering how you would approach it. Any suggestions? > > I was thinking of charging half of the price per page I > > received for the > > first index starting from page 71. Since I won't be reading > > the text again, > > I figure I am being paid to put the terms in the computer and > > edit the text. > > I plan to have my original page proofs next to my new page proofs and > > re-enter the terms from the old page proofs using the new page proof > > pagination. Any other suggestions? > > Any input is appreciated! > > Thanks very much, > > > > Beverlee Day > > Guided by Words Indexing > > b3day@bitstream.net > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 14:17:44 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: Rewriting an Index In-Reply-To: <0.1ec9c21a.25913809@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Janet addresses the issues involved very well. When I have redone an index in this manner, I have put the index file in page number order (Macrex does this, don't know about others, I assume so), printed it out, and marked that printout for changes by comparing the old and new proofs. I then worked on the file in page number order, inputting all the changes as per the marked-up copy. This is painstaking work, imo, and takes way longer than one would imagine, generally speaking. Once I had a choice and did it this way instead of reindexing, and I saved very little time, but I think it might depend on the project involved. --Victoria vbaker@asis.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 17:30:18 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elliot Linzer Subject: Re: Rewriting an Index MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm currently working on the same sort of job. Unfortunately, I'm not getting any more money for my work. When I am done I will have to restrain myself from strangling the client. Rewriting an index can be a very easy job if all the pages are being moved intact, just the page numbers are changing. If this happens starting a few pages after the insert, it is still a simple job. The job gets really complicated when the changes are not so neat, when the new page breaks are in different places from the old page breaks. In this situation, you are stuck having to look up every reference to see where the fall now. This can be a huge job. This is what I am doing right now and the client simply doesn't understand what a job it is. In Beverlee Day's case, it would probably be advantageous for her to negotiate an hourly rate with the client, as others have suggested. This is one of the rare cases in which I would not recommend a job rate. | Elliot Linzer | 43-05 Crommelin Street | Flushing, New York 11355 | (718) 353-1261 | elinzer@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 18:10:16 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Melanie Edwards Subject: A belated thanks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some months ago I asked for some resources on medical terms. Many people came through for me and their advice was more valuable than I can say. I got so caught up in the two projects and their deadlines that I forgot to say thanks. So, thank you to all who responded. Deadlines have been met, clients are very happy and so am I. Melanie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 10:31:39 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Wyatt Organization: Keyword Editorial Services Subject: Re: Rewriting an Index MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I "renovate" indexes from earlier editions quite a lot. It's not so bad, it's a change from "real" indexing, and has about the same boredom level as proofreading. I work in the same way that Victoria does. You'll find you can provide a pretty accurate quote after doing a few chapters; I find it usually costs the publisher between half and three-quarters of the price of a new index. SKY Index can help make the job quite fast by keeping your records in *original* page number order as you work. If you're using SKY Index, check out the SKYIndexUsers archive at http://www.onelist.com/messages/SKYIndexUsers?archive=29 Michael Wyatt Keyword Editorial Services 22 Kendall Street, Surry Hills 2010 Australia Phone 0500 KEYWRD (0500 539 973) Fax (02) 9331 7785 keyword@ozemail.com.au ----- Original Message ----- From: Victoria Baker To: Sent: Tuesday, 21 December, 1999 2:17 Subject: Re: Rewriting an Index > Janet addresses the issues involved very well. > > When I have redone an index in this manner, I have put the index file in > page number order (Macrex does this, don't know about others, I assume so), > printed it out, and marked that printout for changes by comparing the old > and new proofs. I then worked on the file in page number order, inputting > all the changes as per the marked-up copy. This is painstaking work, imo, > and takes way longer than one would imagine, generally speaking. Once I had > a choice and did it this way instead of reindexing, and I saved very little > time, but I think it might depend on the project involved. > > --Victoria > vbaker@asis.com > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 19:27:49 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Willa MacAllen Subject: Re: Rewriting an Index In-Reply-To: <002801bf4cab$28e6dbc0$34906ccb@michaelw> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >SKY Index can help make the job quite fast by keeping your records in >*original* page number order as you work. If you're using SKY Index, check >out the SKYIndexUsers archive at >http://www.onelist.com/messages/SKYIndexUsers?archive=29 Hi All: Cindex can do this a well, i.e., keep entries in page order number until one is ready to change the sort order. Willa (hoping every one has a happy, healthy, productive and safe holiday....) Willa MacAllen Indexing, Proofreading, Editing, Research MacAllen's Information Services Brighton, MA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 21:50:00 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: Meaning of versus In-Reply-To: <30746918.945787613275.JavaMail.imail@goochy.excite.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:46 AM 12/21/99 -0800, Beti Spangel wrote: > >I vote for #s 4 and 1: physical vs. spiritual world. It is clear (the top >priority) and takes less space than writing everything out. Also, I don't >think anyone would question the exact legal meaning of "vs." versus >"versus." I'd like to see how others think this should be set up. > > >On Mon, 20 Dec 1999 21:04:52 -0700, Nina Forest wrote: > >> Hi Folks, >> I have a number of index entries that reflect a comparison between items. >For example, physical world and spiritual world. I made the entry as >"physical world versus spiritual world." When I looked up "versus" in the >dictionary, the first definition was "against" and the second definition was >"compared to" so I'm not what "versus" implies in a non-legal sense. >> >> Should the entry be: >> 1. physical world versus spiritual world >> 2. physical world vs. spiritual world >> 3. physical world compared to spiritual world >> 4. One of the above but leave out the first "world", as in physical >versus spiritual world >> 5. Another choice I too use "vs.", meaning "compared to", though I've tried to come up with another method in order to avoid any possibility of suggesting the meaning "against". "Vis-a-vis" would work perfectly, I think, but since "vis-a-vis" is not as familiar as "vs." and since the meaning of "vs." as "compared to" is usually pretty clear in context I've been unwilling to make the change. (If anyone thinks using "vis-a-vis" is a good idea I'd like to hear about it.) I use "vs." instead of "compared to" because "vs." is much more succinct, and because "vs." as a function word at the beginning of a subheading allows the subheading to be sorted automatically on the following term. (This reminds me to point out for any of us who haven't thought of it that we can set up our indexing programs to flip headings with subheadings beginning with "vs." just like they flip headings with subheadings beginning with "and" -- placing the "vs." ahead of the main-heading-become-subheading.) In writing the heading above I would prefer to use the complete term "physical world" in "physical world vs. spiritual world". I wouldn't hesitate to axe "world" in "physical world" if I had to save a line, or if the whole phrase occurred in a subheading, as in, say, "---: in physical vs. spiritual world", but I'd prefer not to cut the main heading short. Also, I'd use the complete term when creating the index so that if necessary I could add more entries under "physical world", in which case the original heading would become "physical world: vs. spiritual world" -- and indeed, depending on the emphasis in the text, I might write the original heading this way to begin with. Michael Brackney Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 530-272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 21:50:09 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: subheading wording In-Reply-To: <385853E6.800684AC@mcn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:52 PM 12/15/99 -0800, Elinor Lindheimer wrote: > >> Nina wrote: >> >> >I made the following index entry: >> >Rosh Hashanah >> > kingship 10-15, 16, 17-19 > >The discussion that followed was about the locators, but I have a >question about the wording of the subheading. Does anyone else find it >needs more information? Something like: > > kingship concept and > > or even > > kingship related to > >I know we are trying to eliminate wordiness in subheadings, but I hate >to see the meaning thrown out as well. Yes, I find "Rosh Hashanah: kingship" unclear, and although "Rosh Hashanah: Kingship of God" (which I think Nina was suggesting in a follow-up post) would clarify the meaning of "kingship" it would still lack what Elinor is asking for: some indication of the connection between the Kingship of God and Rosh Hashanah even if only through the use of the function word "and". Of course these considerations were not the point of Nina's inquiry but I agree with what I think Elinor is saying: that it's important to write clear headings in the examples we give in our messages on this forum, as well as in our indexes. This said, I also want to say that I very much appreciate Nina's inquiry and all the responses it has elicited. Michael Brackney Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 530-272-7088