Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9912E" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 13:47:21 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: February AZ/ASI program -- Facing the Text MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Don't forget about the February program sponsored by the Arizona Chapter of the American Society for Indexers! This is a program that you don't want to miss! It has gotten rave revues. FACING THE TEXT: CONTENT ANALYSIS AND ENTRY SELECTION IN SOCIAL SCIENCES AND HUMANITIES INDEXING A workshop by Do Mi Stauber This participatory workshop focuses on the practical processes of indexing. We will survey the steps that indexers follow as we interpret texts and create index structures, using examples and hands-on exercises from a range of real texts and indexes. This workshop covers back-of-book indexing of both scholarly books and textbooks in the social sciences and humanities. It is not a basic introduction to indexing, but novices as well as experienced indexers should benefit. Among subjects to be discussed: main topics, indexable topics, index structure, subheads, cross references, and wording. 8:30 - 4:00 Twin Palms Hotel 225 East Apache Blvd. Tempe, AZ 85281 Call (480)967-9431 for directions Cost: $65.00 for ASI members and $85.00 for non-members (includes all workshop materials, lunch and refreshments) To register, please go to the AZ ASI web site and print out a registration form. http://aztec.asu.edu/azasi Feel free to contact Janet Perlman with questions -- jperlman@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 07:34:33 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Paula Durbin-Westby Subject: Is this company legit? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, Is anyone else working for University Press of America/Rowman and = Littlefield/Scarecrow Press, and if so, are you having trouble getting = paid? I did three books for them in the past three months and haven't = been paid for any of them. They've told me they are "paying within 60 = days" but when the 60 days were up they told me their cash flow was bad = and I'd definitely have the money by the end of the year. I've done = others from them and had them routinely "lose the invoice" but they paid = as soon as I made my call. I have another project from them on my desk; I took it before I = realized the payment problem was going to be this bad. It's a 350-page = project and I'm thinking about holding it hostage until I get paid for = the other three books. Any ideas? I'd probably never hear from them = again but that might not be a bad thing. I guess the only reason for NOT holding the index hostage would be if I = got a bad reputation with other publishers. I do not generally hold = indexes hostage (this would be a first for me). It's just that the = company in question owes me more than $2,000 and I think I'd be an idiot = for turning in another under these circumstances.=20 Best regards, Paula Durbin-Westby ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 08:51:45 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: quaker1 Subject: Re: Is this company legit? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wonder if it's the time of year. Have you called them and asked about payment on the other projects? I did that with Wiley and they paid me right away, but they probably wouldn't have done a thing if I hadn't squawked about it. If you don't get satisfaction (i.e. a conversation with Accounts Payable or some other responsible person), I would not hesitate to hold the index hostage. However, I would certainly approach them about payment before doing that. Make sure you have all the dates of your previous projects and the dates you sent the invoices. These companiess have a way of "losing" things, and they may ask you to resubmit. If they do, make sure you get them to give you an estimated payment date (2 weeks, 3 weeks, whatever). If it's more than 30 days, say that is not acceptable either. Good luck. Diana Witt Paula Durbin-Westby wrote: > Hi all, > > Is anyone else working for University Press of America/Rowman and Littlefield/Scarecrow Press, and if so, are you having trouble getting paid? I did three books for them in the past three months and haven't been paid for any of them. They've told me they are "paying within 60 days" but when the 60 days were up they told me their cash flow was bad and I'd definitely have the money by the end of the year. I've done others from them and had them routinely "lose the invoice" but they paid as soon as I made my call. > > I have another project from them on my desk; I took it before I realized the payment problem was going to be this bad. It's a 350-page project and I'm thinking about holding it hostage until I get paid for the other three books. Any ideas? I'd probably never hear from them again but that might not be a bad thing. > > I guess the only reason for NOT holding the index hostage would be if I got a bad reputation with other publishers. I do not generally hold indexes hostage (this would be a first for me). It's just that the company in question owes me more than $2,000 and I think I'd be an idiot for turning in another under these circumstances. > > Best regards, > > Paula Durbin-Westby ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 10:13:20 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Willa MacAllen Subject: Re: Is this company legit? In-Reply-To: <19991230114338.AAA5787@Astrovan.cstone.net@client209-3-22- 169.louisa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >I have another project from them on my desk; I took it before I realized >the payment problem was going to be this bad. It's a 350-page project and >I'm thinking about holding it hostage until I get paid for the other three >books. Any ideas? I'd probably never hear from them again but that might >not be a bad thing. > >I guess the only reason for NOT holding the index hostage would be if I >got a bad reputation with other publishers. I do not generally hold >indexes hostage (this would be a first for me). It's just that the >company in question owes me more than $2,000 and I think I'd be an idiot >for turning in another under these circumstances. Hi All: Paula, you would not be getting a bad reputation with other publishers, since you've already done the work for this publisher. The problem is at their end. If anything, they should be the one who gets the bad reputation for being so disorganized in paying freelancers who do work for them in good faith. Willa (who hopes everyone has a happy, safe and enjoyable holiday weekend...) Willa MacAllen Indexing, Proofreading, Editing, Research MacAllen's Information Services Brighton, MA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 11:23:56 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Is this company legit? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paula, I would have a lot of trouble justifying to myself putting in any more time for a publisher who already owes me money for 3 previous jobs. My antennas would definitely be "up"/ I think you really have to take a stand on this. Yes, you may lose the client. But if they drag out payment this way, it is no loss. They either have some very strange business practices, or they are about to go under. It is a signal that you need to move on and find other clients to replace this one. I'd say cut your losses. My course of action would be to call the editor and tell him/her that you will do no further work for them until you are paid for previous work. So they either FedEx you a check immediately, in which case you will do the work on the new project, or you he/she needs to find another indexer. Plain and simple. If they want you to return the page proof, make sure they pay for it by giving you their FedEx #. Keep in mind that you are risking having to play the same game again with payment for the "hostage" job. You are definitely taking your chances. So an alternative would be to simply call the editor and explain that you no longer want to work for them due to their non-payment. Never mind that you are leaving him/her in a lurch. Business is business. The exchange of money for work is what this is all about. You are not obligated to continue this relationship if they don't hold up their end of the bargain. I know we all hate to turn down work (and money). But this is one case where a good "business sense" prevails. Something is wrong here. Bail out and get more clients who pay according to good business practice. And good luck! Janet Perlman SOUTHWEST INDEXING ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 15:02:20 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elliot Linzer Subject: Re: Is this company legit? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In all my years of indexing, I've never had a client tell me that the lost part of my index manuscript, a disk file or a covering memo, but with about every other index I submit, the client somehow manages to lose the invoice. I guess I must be using the wrong type of paper or my printer has switched over the "invisible ink" mode when printing invoices. A bit more seriously, I've never worked for any of the publishers Paula mentions. I've heard of Scarecrow Press, but not the others. I've thought about holding an index hostage, but have never done so. If the client owes a significant amount of money, has reneged on promised payment dates (60 days), how can they expect you to give them the same priority you would give to clients who pay their bills? I'm having a similar problem right now with a client who owes me for work I completed in August. I'm redoing a large index for them right now, which they will receive in return for the money they owe me. My thought is to diplomatically negotiate the current work for the past-due payment. In short, do try to hold it hostage. The client needs the work done and has to understand that you are not working for free. I don't think Paula has to worry too much about her reputation being damaged. University Press of America/Rowman and Littlefield/Scarecrow Press, on the other hand, are about the get the reputation of being deadbeat clients. If we do not hear from Paula soon saying that she's been paid in full on all her old bills, I doubt if anyone reading this thread would be interested in working for U.P. of A. or the others if called. Paula, keep us informed. | Elliot Linzer | 43-05 Crommelin Street | Flushing, New York 11355 | (718) 353-1261 | elinzer@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 13:12:04 -0800 Reply-To: anderson@the-indexer.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charles Anderson Subject: Re: Is this company legit? In-Reply-To: <19991230.153936.-167395.0.elinzer@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The only thing about Scarecrow Press is that it has been a respected publisher of books for the professional library trade for many years. I've never indexed for them, but hearing this does rather surprise me. That said, some of my best ALWAYS seem to need a reminder after thirty days, but then they do pay promptly after the second notice. Charles R. Anderson the-indexer.com PO Box 15642, Seattle, WA 98115-0642 5028 37th Ave. NE, Seattle, WA 98105 (non-USPS deliveries) Voice: 206-985-8799, 206-524-6624 Cell Phone: 206-841-5209 Fax: 206-985-8796 (fax) Web: http://www.the-indexer.com E-Mail: anderson@the-indexer.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 16:45:48 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diane Brenner Subject: Re: Is this company legit? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree with Janet, I don't think this company is worth keeping in your client base. You might want to check with the Better Business Bureau or the state Attorney General's office (whatever state they do buisiness in), to see if there have been any complaints or problems and how you might register one yourself, if you decide to go that route. Also, one thing you should remember is that if they don't pay (I don't advoate writing them off, but in case you can't collect), you can claim the loss on your federal taxes. I have had to do that only once, but it did give a tiny silver edge to an otherwise ugly cloud. Diane Brenner JPerlman@AOL.COM wrote: > Paula, > > I would have a lot of trouble justifying to myself putting in any more time > for a publisher who already owes me money for 3 previous jobs. My antennas > would definitely be "up"/ > > I think you really have to take a stand on this. Yes, you may lose the > client. But if they drag out payment this way, it is no loss. They either > have some very strange business practices, or they are about to go under. It > is a signal that you need to move on and find other clients to replace this > one. I'd say cut your losses. > > My course of action would be to call the editor and tell him/her that you > will do no further work for them until you are paid for previous work. So > they either FedEx you a check immediately, in which case you will do the work > on the new project, or you he/she needs to find another indexer. Plain and > simple. If they want you to return the page proof, make sure they pay for it > by giving you their FedEx #. > > Keep in mind that you are risking having to play the same game again with > payment for the "hostage" job. You are definitely taking your chances. So > an alternative would be to simply call the editor and explain that you no > longer want to work for them due to their non-payment. Never mind that you > are leaving him/her in a lurch. Business is business. The exchange of money > for work is what this is all about. You are not obligated to continue this > relationship if they don't hold up their end of the bargain. > > I know we all hate to turn down work (and money). But this is one case where > a good "business sense" prevails. Something is wrong here. Bail out and get > more clients who pay according to good business practice. > > And good luck! > Janet Perlman > SOUTHWEST INDEXING ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 06:20:35 -0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: Is this company legit? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paula Durbin-Westby wrote: And Elliot Linzer commented: < In all my years of indexing, I've never had a client tell me that the lost part of my index manuscript, a disk file or a covering memo, but with about every other index I submit, the client somehow manages to lose the invoice. I guess I must be using the wrong type of paper or my printer has switched over the "invisible ink" mode when printing invoices. Sorry to hear of your bad experience, Paula. I have frequently (though not quite as frequently as Elliot) found that the invoice gets mysteriously lost. But in all *my* many years of indexing I have only once heard of the actual index getting lost. A client (from a large and famous organization) telephoned me in some embarrassment to say that because his desk was so full, he had put my package containing hard copy and disk file of my index on the floor next to the desk, and next morning found that the cleaner had thrown it out. Luckily the material was easily replaced. I wondered if I should have charged extra for supplying it twice, but didn't bother as the poor man seemed so distressed already. I decided to be nice about it, and I got a lot more work from the client after that. Happy next thousand years, everyone. Christine ************************************************************ Christine Shuttleworth, Indexing & Editorial Services Executive Editor, The Indexer Flat 1, 25 St Stephen's Avenue, London W12 8JB cshuttle@dircon.co.uk ************************************************************ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 06:29:00 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Paula Durbin-Westby Subject: Re: Is this company legit? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the thoughtful responses so far. I have not been able to = contact anyone who knows anything at the press although I have left = numerous voicemails, emails, and been transferred by one person to = another a few times, only to end up at voice mail again! I ought to = find out something next week when everyone is back (if I'm lucky). I = will report back!=20 I have no idea what sort of financial condition the company is in; does = anyone know how to find out if a company is declaring bankruptcy? I = doubt that's true in this case but might want to check, having just = reread the Carol Publishing thread (that was my "break" from work today- = blech!) Happy Y2K and best wishes for speedy payment in the New Year! Paula Durbin-Westby ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 17:45:58 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: Is this company legit? In-Reply-To: <19991230.153936.-167395.0.elinzer@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > In all my years of indexing, I've never had a client tell me that the >lost part of my index manuscript, a disk file or a covering memo, but Elliot, this happened to me yesterday. Two weeks after I sent the index and invoice, and one day after I sent email asking for my money (we had agreed that I would be paid on delivery) I got a msg asking me to resend the index and invoice as a "computer glitch" had caused both to be lost, and that my check for the first job would arrive along with the ms for the next job. If there's no check with the next job, I will most certainly hold it hostage and say no more work (a series of six books) on one till paid for previous as agreed. Course it helps that this was agreed upon in advance, though not in writing. Rae Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric racric ICQ 31476947 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 12:28:05 -0600 Reply-To: Sandi Schroeder Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Schroeder Subject: Happy New Year MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wishing all ASI members and others a Happy New Year as we move into the new millentium. Please remember that as of Monday, the administrative office is located at 11250 Roger Bacon Drive, Suite 8, Reston, Virginia. The new phone number is 703-234-4147. However, if you are ordering back issues of Key Words, send that request to the Phoenix Office. The last date to order is January 15. Sandi Schroeder President, ASI