Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9902D" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:35:14 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "M. Jessie Barczak" Subject: Re: Writing Home Index At 08:39 PM 2/21/99 -0500, you wrote: >The following was extracted by a friend, and I forward it for your >amusement, with the sincere hope that it doesn't start another discussion >about humor in indexes. > > >Roberta Engleman > >Hello, > >I've just finished a book with a regulation sober-looking index. It >contains a few entries which let slip the humanity of the indexer and I >thought they would give you a smile or two. The book is "Writing Home" by >the English playwright Alan Bennett (Madness of King George, plus many >more). Sorry the examples are so many; I got carried away. > Is that the oneandsame author of Shirley Valentine? M. J. Barczak Washington, D.C. "This is me in a nut shell; Help! I'm in a nut shell! how did i get into this nutshell? What kind of nut has a shell like this one?" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:21:15 PST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Manjit Sahai Subject: Re: Indexing Project Deadline & Jury Duty Hi everyone, Thank you so much to all those people who have given me helpful tips and suggestions regarding jury duty. You guys are really wonderful! Perhaps I did not make clear in my previous message. I received a *summon notice* from the court to appear for a jury duty. It is *not* a selection process. At least that is not my impression from the notice. But anyhow, I have decided to go ahead with the jury duty thing and will have to stay awake at night in order to the meet the deadlines. Both of my projects are very big and time consuming. Thanks again to everyone. Manjit K. Sahai RAM Indexing Services >From owner-index-l@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU Fri Feb 19 02:20:00 1999 >Received: from [128.228.100.10] by hotmail.com (1.1) with SMTP id MHotMailB89685C84B3ED101707980E4640A09941; Fri Feb 19 02:20:00 1999 >Received: from listserv (listserv.cuny.edu) by listserv.cuny.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <3.FFAFE8D6@listserv.cuny.edu>; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 5:23:39 -0500 >Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:33:12 -0500 >Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group >Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group >From: Carol Roberts >Subject: Re: Indexing Project Deadline & Jury Duty >X-To: Indexer's Discussion Group >To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L >In-Reply-To: <199902190503.XAA19713@mixcom.mixcom.com> > >When I was called (in Wisconsin), I learned that self-employment did not >exempt me. In any case, I didn't try to get out of it. I took my work and >my laptop with me and got plenty of work done during the long, boring >selection process. Their system was that if you're not exempt, you come >back each day until you're chosen for some trial or other. Eventually, I >was chosen and served duty on a 3-day civil trial. I had already let my >editor know what was going on, and she was very understanding. > >Look on the bright side. Having to serve jury duty when deadlines loom is >similar to being behind schedule due to illness, but if you serve jury >duty, at least you don't feel sick. :-) BTW, I've been sick for 4 weeks >(strep then respiratory flu)--a new personal record! > >>>There's no such thing as an "automatic excuse" from jury duty unless you are >>>actually unfit to serve...ever. You have to be mentally unable to understand >>>the proceedings, or physically incapable of attending, or over 75 (I think >>>that's the age in CA). >> >In New York State, as I recall from notices I received when I lived there, >there is one automatic exemption (i.e., printed on the form, with a box to >check off): being a single parent/guardian of one or more school-age >children. > > >Cheers, > > >Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My >Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. >Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer >http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:47:07 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: Indexing Project Deadline & Jury Duty > Perhaps I did not make clear in my previous message. I received a > *summon notice* from the court to appear for a jury duty. It is *not* a > selection process. At least that is not my impression from the notice. > Actually, Manjit, it will be a selection process. That's how jury duty works. You're summoned to appear in court where you will be part of the "jury pool." For each jury trial that's on the calendar, they will draw names (the first winnowing process), then begin questioning people to eliminate them (are they related to the parties/attorneys/the judge, have they heard anything about the case already, etc.). Finally, for a jury of 12 about 20 or so people are selected (for a civil jury of six, about 10 or 12 are selected) and the attorneys take turns eliminating ("striking") individual jurors until 12 remain (sometimes 13 or 14 if they want alternates-- for a long trial, for instance). So being summoned does not mean that you will actually sit on a jury-- it's just the first of a long process. It works a little differently for grand jury proceedings, but this is the general selection process. Of course, different courts have different rules, so your mileage may vary. The whole process can actually be kind of interesting, but take something along to read or otherwise occupy yourself! :-) -- Sharon W. x7255 Rm. 223 Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:39:05 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: Re: Writing Home Index M. Jessie Barczak wrote: the English playwright Alan Bennett (Madness of King George, plus many >more). Sorry the examples are so many; I got carried away. > Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: Re: Indexing Project Deadline & Jury Duty Sharon F. Wright wrote: Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: HP Authorized Customer Subject: sample index length I know this question has been posted before, but I cannot remember the response. How long should a sample index be? If the index is really long, how many pages should I send? Or perhaps I should send a certain percentage of it. What do you think? Thanks- Marea ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:27:55 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Debra Lindblom Subject: Re: sample index length In a message dated 2/22/99 2:24:38 PM EST, mtumber@WILDERNESSWOK.COM writes: << I know this question has been posted before, but I cannot remember the response. How long should a sample index be? If the index is really long, how many pages should I send? Or perhaps I should send a certain percentage of it. What do you think? Thanks- Marea >> I send three sample indexes with my marketing letter. Because of postage costs, I send only two pages of each index, using one sheet of paper, front and back. It seems to be working. I am getting good response from my mailings. Good luck, Debbie Lindblom ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:56:08 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Iris B. Ailin-Pyzik" Subject: Re: Indexing Project Deadline & Jury Duty The emphasis in this should be that every court does this a little differently, so advice from another part of the courntry, state or even county in the same state, may be only marginally usefull. It WILL be a selection process - the lawyers get to toss out a certain number of jurors. How long you are liable for selection will also vary - either your notice will say, or you can call and ask. I have been called for one day service - and they wound up having the trial for that day settled, so we were dismissed about an hour after we arrived. I have also been called where I was liable for 3 weeks service, but they gave you a number to call for a recording which told you if/when to report, or when to call back to check again. There are generally few automatic exclusions - late pregnancy may be one of the few left, as are age (over a set age) or major illness. Grand jury service is a pain, at least in Ohio. It goes on for 10 months, at one day a week, at least the last time I knew someone who was called. I think the right approach is take work, and put up with it. It is not likely to be too onerous. Iris "Wright, Sharon F." wrote: > > Perhaps I did not make clear in my previous message. I received a > > *summon notice* from the court to appear for a jury duty. It is *not* a > > selection process. At least that is not my impression from the notice. > > > Actually, Manjit, it will be a selection process. That's how jury duty > works. You're summoned to appear in court where you will be part of the > "jury pool." For each jury trial that's on the calendar, they will draw > names (the first winnowing process), then begin questioning people to > eliminate them (are they related to the parties/attorneys/the judge, have > they heard anything about the case already, etc.). Finally, for a jury of > 12 about 20 or so people are selected (for a civil jury of six, about 10 or > 12 are selected) and the attorneys take turns eliminating ("striking") > individual jurors until 12 remain (sometimes 13 or 14 if they want > alternates-- for a long trial, for instance). So being summoned does not > mean that you will actually sit on a jury-- it's just the first of a long > process. > > It works a little differently for grand jury proceedings, but this is the > general selection process. Of course, different courts have different > rules, so your mileage may vary. The whole process can actually be kind of > interesting, but take something along to read or otherwise occupy yourself! > :-) > > -- Sharon W. > x7255 > Rm. 223 > Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:19:57 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: see references in Online Help In-Reply-To: <199902211519.HAA08446@dns1.mcn.org> William Meisheid wrote: >We should all be exerting what pressure we can on software vendors to >include better indexing features in their information products. This was my point, however inelegantly I made it. Thank you. Perhaps a short article in KEY WORDS outlining current educational efforts would be helpful to everyone. I'm cc'ing Seth on this. Again, thank you for your clear statement. Best, Victoria ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:34:57 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Holbert Subject: MA Workshop Mar 27 The Mass. Society of Indexers will present a one-day workshop on "Editing the Index" for both beginning and experienced indexers on March 27 in Waltham MA. $60 for ASI members. $70 for members. Registration required. Email Ann Daley at ADaley3521@aol.com or Susan Holvert at susanh@world.std.com for more information. ================== Susan Holbert --- 781-893-0514 Indexing Videos: "Basic Skills" - "Manuals & Online Help" http://www.abbington.com/holbert ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:42:50 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Sherman Grayson Subject: Hourly rate Does the "Collective Wisdom" have any suggestions regarding an equitable rate to charge for creating a database structure, entering data into and creating an index for state legal documents? In most cases, I believe an abstract has been written for each item that will be entered into the database and into the index, so theoretically (in a perfect world), the documents will not have to be thoroughly read - just the abstract. I don't know yet whether there are plans to integrate the index with the database. There are also references to creating a "thesaurus". However, I believe it would be more useful to them to have a "keyword field" in the database that would enable users to search for what they wanted. ... so then why the index? Beats me, except because I think there needs to be a hard copy index to satisfy "it's been done that way forever" requirements. Thank you so much in advance for your thoughts on this. You can reply off-list if you would like, but the rate issue might be something everyone could benefit from. Julie Grayson juliesg@ix.netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:16:07 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was maryann@ITASCA.REVISOR.LEG.STATE.MN.US From: Maryann Corbett Organization: Revisor of Statutes Subject: Re: Hourly rate (long) Julie Sherman Grayson wrote: > > Does the "Collective Wisdom" have any suggestions regarding an > equitable rate to charge for creating a database structure, entering > data into and creating an index for state legal documents? In most > cases, I believe an abstract has been written for each item that will > be entered into the database and into the index, so theoretically (in > a perfect world), the documents will not have to be thoroughly read - > just the abstract. I don't know yet whether there are plans to > integrate the index with the database. There are also references to > creating a "thesaurus". However, I believe it would be more useful to > them to have a "keyword field" in the database that would enable users > to search for what they wanted. ... so then why the index? Beats me, > except because I think there needs to be a hard copy index to satisfy > "it's been done that way forever" requirements. > > Thank you so much in advance for your thoughts on this. You can reply > off-list if you would like, but the rate issue might be something > everyone could benefit from. I've glommed onto this question because in our office we live day to day with the differing capabilities of different search tools--databases and indexes--to help us find things. I can't speak to the rate, exactly, except to say that a good job with this will involve spending serious time asking the users precisely how they use the tools they have, and how they want to use the one you're creating. I do want to speak to the "why the index" question, from the point of view of what our office does. "State legal documents" is an awfully broad term; it could cover bill drafting requests, enacted laws, codified statutes, adopted and proposed state administrative regulations, procedural agency regulations that never get publicized or adopted, court opinions, attorney general opinions--you get the idea. (The more types of documents you'll be dealing with, the more complicated this will be and the more you should charge.) Let's pretend you're working for an office like ours and your main worry will be bills and laws. In the database we use for bill request tracking, there's a very limited number of subjects that may be assigned to a subject field. If I look up a bill just by subject, I'll have to read through a long list to find what I want. In our system, only one subject can be assigned to a bill, which means that if I take the wrong mental approach I'll be frustrated. (The Senate has a more flexible system, and we use theirs to look for introduced bills.) There's a "description" field, in which the more specific point of the bill is summarized, but it's limited in length. The description of the bill I need may not contain the word I'm focusing on. Once bills pass, we index them for the laws publication, and this makes things much easier to find (Incidentally, even the Senate, which has a more comprehensive and flexible database system, also indexes the bills.) Alternative wording, see references, and double and rotated forms of entry help a lot. Perhaps with a larger thesaurus of subjects, the ability to use multiple subjects for one bill, and a really long description field--the whole abstract, at least--you might have less need for an index. However, given system demands during the heaviest points of the session, people might prefer the index because it could be faster to look at the printed pages than to wait for the computer. I hope all this is actually relevant to what Julie has been asked to do. Best of luck, Julie! -- Maryann Corbett Language Specialist Office of the Revisor of Statutes Minnesota Legislature 651-297-2952 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:50:12 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Deborah Patton Subject: DC Chapter meeting The Washington, DC Chapter will hold its next meeting on March 6, 1999 at the National Agricultural Library, Room 1400 in Beltsville, MD. PLEASE NOTE: some of the details in the announcement have changed since the last post, so use this one as your benchmark. 9:30 -10, pastries and socializing 10 - 12, annual Chapter business meeting (short) including introduction of candidates followed by roundtable schmoozes: marking up text with Richard Shrout, contracting with publishers with Enid Zafran, and updates on Web indexing with Kate Mertes. There is no fee to attend, but you MUST register by contacting Mike Bernier by March 5 at mbernier@bna.com or 202/452-6395. We have to provide a list of attendees to NAL, and if your name isn't on the list, you won't be admitted to the building. Directions: the National Agricultural Library is just north of the Capital Beltway, on the east side of Route 1 (aka Baltimore Boulevard). From I-95 take exit 25 North on Route 1 to Beltsville. NAL is the tall brown building on the right. Due to renovations at the main entrance, we must use the employee entrance and parking lot on the Route 1 side of the building. Entering the employee entrance, you will be on the ground floor. Take the elevator to the 14th floor and we'll see you there! Deborah Patton Vice Chair/Chair-Elect Washington, DC Chapter of ASI ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:00:37 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Schultz, Darrel" Subject: Indexing APIs I haven't subscribed to index-l for quite some time, and I'm sure I'm breaking all manner of rules, but I need to get some preliminary information and ideas fairly quickly. Specifically, I'm interested in any information or resources regarding the indexing of APIs (application-program interfaces). If you have indexed this kind of material, I'd appreciate hearing from you. To avoid cluttering up the list, feel free to respond to me directly. Thanks so much. Darrel Schultz Editor, Technical Publications J.D. Edwards World Source Company darrel_schultz@jdedwards.com (303)334-1664 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 18:12:32 PST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Manjit Sahai Subject: ASI conf. registration form Hi everyone, I am filling the registration form and I have noticed that on the form there is *no* choice given for the Friday Panel Presentations. For example, the roundtables have been listed as Ist choice, 2nd choice and 3rd choice. But there is no Ist or 2nd or 3rd choice listed for the Panel Presentation. Does this mean whatever choice I list, that is the *final and only* choice I will have. Same is the case with General Session Presentations, there is nothing listed on the form. Does this mean I can attend *any* General Session on Friday or Saturday and if I do not like one particular General Session, I can leave in between and can attend the other General Session (which is already in progress)? This is my first ASI conf. and obviously I am not aware how things work at ASI conf. I would appreciate a *quick* response from anyone. I have to fill my form and mail it ASAP. Thanks a lot. Manjit K. Sahai ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 20:27:29 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Schroeder Subject: Re: ASI conf. registration form There are 4 choices for the Friday Panel Presentations. Each room will hold up to 75 people, so there should not be a need for a second choice. As for the General Sessions, there is only one meeting going on at any one time, so there is no need for choices here. Members are free to come and go as they please. Sandi Schroeder Vice President, ASI -----Original Message----- From: Manjit Sahai To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 8:13 PM Subject: ASI conf. registration form >Hi everyone, > >I am filling the registration form and I have noticed that on the form >there is *no* choice given for the Friday Panel Presentations. For >example, the roundtables have been listed as Ist choice, 2nd choice and >3rd choice. But there is no Ist or 2nd or 3rd choice listed for the >Panel Presentation. Does this mean whatever choice I list, that is the >*final and only* choice I will have. > >Same is the case with General Session Presentations, there is nothing >listed on the form. Does this mean I can attend *any* General Session on >Friday or Saturday and if I do not like one particular General Session, >I can leave in between and can attend the other General Session (which >is already in progress)? > >This is my first ASI conf. and obviously I am not aware how things work >at ASI conf. > >I would appreciate a *quick* response from anyone. I have to fill my >form and mail it ASAP. > >Thanks a lot. > >Manjit K. Sahai > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 20:32:23 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Schroeder Subject: Re: ASI conf. registration form If anyone has any specific questions as to the registration, you can send an e-mail directly to me. Sandi Schroeder VP, ASI sanindex@xsite.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 21:23:31 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: rivka Subject: Idea for work--indexing regulations I'm not indexing right now, but I AM frustrated by the lack of indexing in books of regulations. Currently, I'm having to work with the SOLAS regulations (safety of life at sea), and the STCW (forget what it means) of the IMO (International Maritime Organization). I have to be able to look up ALL of the regs on certain topcs and issues, for various needs, and without an index, it can be an enormously time-consuming and frustrating job. It occurred to me that some entrepreneurial (index THAT my friends) colleague out there might be able to convince the IMO and other regulatory agencies--national, international, local--to pay them to provide great indexes. What a tremendous time-saver it would be. The only problem is that you'd probably have to do embedded indexing--as the pagination changes with regulation updates is constant. Or...... If you DO score some work on these things, or if you want some help with addresses and things, please do let me know. I'm MOST happily contracted for the foreseeable future to write computer-based training materials based on these regs. So I'm just tossing this out to whoever wants to do it. Good luck any/everyone. Rivka ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:05:21 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pamela Venneman Subject: Re: ASI conf. registration form When was this mailed? Have others received this form? Thanks, Pamela Venneman Lighthouse Indexing Services ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 07:15:21 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kari Kells Subject: Pacific Northwest Chapter meeting The next meeting of the Pacific Northwest chapter of ASI is: Saturday, March 20, 1999 11:30a.m. - 4:00p.m. Urban Onion, Palladia Room 116 Legion Way, Olympia, WA TOPIC: WILSON AWARD JUDGING Interested in what a Wilson Award judge would consider a fatal flaw in an index? Colleen Dunham will give you insight at this thought-provoking meeting in which she'll share with us the process of judging Wilson Award indexes. Every year ASI evaluates indexes hoping to give the Wilson Award to one index that is a model of excellence. Both new and experienced indexers will learn about the how the criteria and standards for the Wilson Award can be implemented in their own work by viewing some award-winning indexes. We welcome you to join us as we look at the process of evaluation and elimination, explore ideas for recognizing indexes that are not eligible for the Wilson Award (e.g. electronic indexes), and discuss some shortcomings of the judging process. More information about the Wilson Award is available on the ASI web site (http://www.asindexing.org). Colleen Dunham has been judging indexes submitted for the Wilson Award for two of her 20-year indexing career. She moved to Seattle last year to index for Microsoft's Encarta Encyclopedia. 11:30 - 1:30 Lunch, Networking, "Ask an indexer".As usual, we will make sure that working indexers are sitting at each table, so that new and potential indexers have a chance to ask questions. NEW: "Documentation swap". Bring 20 copies of your resume, business card, inquiry letter, contract, invoice, brochure, etc. We'll display them on a table, discuss what we've brought during introductions, and offer "interested others" a chance to take a copy home. Be sure to mark one copy of each "TABLE COPY." 1:30-2:00 Business Meeting. Hear what we have accomplished since our last meeting and what we are planning for the rest of the year. 2:00 - 4:00 Wilson Award Judging. Discussion and questions. DIRECTIONS: I5 South to Exit 105B, City Center exit to Plum St; I5 North to Exit 105, to Plum St. From both exits, head north on Plum to 3rd stop light, turn left on Legion Way. Follow Legion 6 blocks to Washington St. The Urban Onion is in the large brick building on the left (Sylvester Park is on the right). Park In U.S. West parking lot on corner of 7th and Washington (one block south of Urban Onion) TRAIN: Leaves Portland 8:45am, arrives 10:34am; Leaves Seattle 9:45am arrives 11:30am. Both depart around 6:30pm. We have the Palladia Room all day so you can come early and stay later. For more information on train options, visit the Amtrak web site (http://www.amtrak.com/). REGISTRATION: Registration deadline: Thursday, March 18, 1999 FEE: $20 ASI members; $25 non-ASI members. Includes lunch (served at noon). Either print the registration form below, print the one on our web site, or fill out the registration form that will arrive in the mail to ASI members. _______________________________________________________ Meeting Registration Form Print this form and return with registration fees to: Louise Martin, Secretary/Treasurer, PNW/ASI 1256 Arnold Ave E, Port Orchard WA 98366 Names of People attending: ___________________________________________ Number Attending_____ ASI member_____ Nonmember_____ Amount Enclosed____________ Make check payable to Pacific Northwest Chapter/ASI. Registration fees: $20 ASI members; $25 non-ASI members. Registration includes lunch. Questions? Louise Martin (lmartin@oz.net or 360-895-4427) or Jan Wright (jancw@mindspring.com or 206-937-3673). ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 09:14:45 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Schroeder Subject: Re: ASI conf. registration form The forms should have went into the mail over the weekend and into Monday. They were mailed bulk rate and hopefully will be received this week or early next. They were mailed in Chicago and I am in the northwest suburb; I have not received mine yet. If you have not received yours by early March let me know. You will be able to get what you want to register for. Sandi -----Original Message----- From: Pamela Venneman To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 9:06 AM Subject: Re: ASI conf. registration form >When was this mailed? Have others received this form? >Thanks, >Pamela Venneman >Lighthouse Indexing Services > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:22:06 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Schroeder Subject: brochures--mailing date The ASI Conference brochures entered the mailflow in Chicago on Friday February 19. They were mailed bulk rate, so most of you should be receiving them soon. If you do not have your brochure by March 6, contact me directly. Sandi Schroeder sanindex@xsite.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:21:54 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Suellen Kasoff Subject: Re: ASI conf. registration form Should have Went? Should have WENT??? On Wed, 24 Feb 1999 09:14:45 -0600 Sandi Schroeder writes: >The forms should have went into the mail over the weekend and into >Monday. >They were mailed bulk rate and hopefully will be received this week or >early >next. They were mailed in Chicago and I am in the northwest suburb; I >have >not received mine yet. If you have not received yours by early March >let me >know. You will be able to get what you want to register for. > >Sandi >-----Original Message----- >From: Pamela Venneman >To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > >Date: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 9:06 AM >Subject: Re: ASI conf. registration form > > >>When was this mailed? Have others received this form? >>Thanks, >>Pamela Venneman >>Lighthouse Indexing Services >> > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:27:24 PST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Manjit Sahai Subject: Re: ASI conf. registration form Hi Pamela, I downloaded this form from ASI website. Manjit >From owner-index-l@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU Wed Feb 24 09:50:24 1999 >Received: from [128.228.100.10] by hotmail.com (1.0) with SMTP id MHotMail309730624645227351859587421624514664828770; Wed Feb 24 09:50:24 1999 >Received: from listserv (listserv.cuny.edu) by listserv.cuny.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0005D6E1@listserv.cuny.edu>; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:10:43 -0500 >Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:05:21 EST >Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group >Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group >From: Pamela Venneman >Subject: Re: ASI conf. registration form >X-To: INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU >To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > >When was this mailed? Have others received this form? >Thanks, >Pamela Venneman >Lighthouse Indexing Services ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:06:22 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Xthona Subject: Re: ASI conf. registration form Suellen Kasoff wrote: > Should have Went? Should have WENT??? > I am really tired of people writing to the list to point out grammar, punctuation or spelling mistakes in other peoples letters. Why do you people do this? Does it really make you feel superior that you can point out these mistakes, or are you afraid that the rest of us might not realize it's a mistake and perpetuate it in our own letters, thus leading to the ultimate demise of western civilization? Why don't you take some tranquilizers and then go brag to all your friends back home that you are really intelligent because you know how to say "should have gone". Sorry, I think I need a vacation. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:26:50 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Xthona Subject: apology I want to apologize to Suellen Kasoff and the list for my earlier letter. I really am having a horrible morning (which I just made worse) and my letter was really inexcusable. After benefiting from all the helpful advice on this list, I very sorry and embarrassed for writing such a letter. I hope I can contribute in a more helpful way in the future. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 14:47:52 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "M. Jessie Barczak" Subject: Re: apology At 11:26 AM 2/24/99 -0800, you wrote: >I want to apologize to Suellen Kasoff and the list for >my earlier letter. I really am having a horrible morning (which I just made >worse) and my letter was really inexcusable. After benefiting from all the >helpful advice on this list, I very sorry and embarrassed for writing such >a letter. I hope I can contribute in a more helpful way in the future. > > Say two Hail Marys, one Our Father and refrain from smoking, eating sweets and cursing for the next two weeks ... M. J. Barczak Washington, D.C. "This is me in a nut shell; Help! I'm in a nut shell! how did I get into this nutshell? What kind of nut has a shell like this one?" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:38:16 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: apology At 02:47 PM 2/24/99 -0500, M. Jessie Barczak wrote: >At 11:26 AM 2/24/99 -0800, you wrote: > >>I want to apologize to Suellen Kasoff and the list for > >>my earlier letter. I really am having a horrible morning (which I just= made > >>worse) and my letter was really inexcusable. After benefiting from all= the > >>helpful advice on this list, I very sorry and embarrassed for writing such > >>a letter. I hope I can contribute in a more helpful way in the future. > >Say two Hail Marys, one Our Father and refrain from smoking, eating sweets= and > cursing for the next two weeks ... > I know that this thread is not about indexing, but just wanted to mention that the index to The Catechism of the Catholic Church is one of the hardest indexes I have ever had to use! In my copy anyway, the main headings are justified left and are bolded. Subheads are also left justified and in regular type; only subsubheads are indented. Main topics go on for pages... Not easy to use at all! There are other things about the index that leave a great deal to be desired, but the physical format is the worst thing about= it. One more thing... Actually, in today's Church, your penance might be to take a nice warm bath with salt for purification sprinkled in and to burn a candle as you step into the nice warm relaxing water. Then as you bathe you meditate on what you can do to be a better person and not repeat history. That will accomplish more than depriving yourself of things! And yet one more thing...in regard to the original reason for this thread, I, too, have noticed that we indexers tend to love to see that others make errors. At the root of this, I think, is that we are only human and are glad to see that perfection is impossible! Cynthia Bertelsen ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen Bertelsen Indexing and Editorial Services cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.usit.com/cbertel/ "When we no longer have good cooking in the world, we will have no literature, nor high and sharp intelligence, nor friendly gatherings, no social harmony."=20 --Car=EAme ****************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:46:12 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Horowitz Subject: Continuing Education Courses Thought these might be of interest to some of you. Roberta Horowitz rhorowitz@acm.org >From: Paul Aloisio >Subject: Continuing Education Courses >Comments: To: asis-l@asis.lib.indiana.edu >To: ASIS-L@asis.lib.indiana.edu > >ATTENTION: > >NEW ONE-DAY COURSES AVAILABLE FOR INFORMATION AND TECHNOLOGY ENTHUSIASTS >************************************************************* > >The Graduate School of Library and Information Science at Simmons College >is offering 21 Institutes this spring. Many concern key issues for >EVERYONE involved with computer technology and information. > >* Usability Testing for Web Design (Saturday, March 13) >* Library Issues in Authentication (Saturday, March 27) >* Thinking Outside the Box: Tools and Roles for > Information Management Professionals (Saturday, April 10) >* Introduction to Licensing of Electronic Services > and Databases (Saturday, April 17) >* Reference and Professional Publishing: Process, Traditional >Product, > and Issues Relating to Electronic Books (Saturday, May 8) > >For more information on these courses and to view the other 16 courses >offered this spring, please visit our Web site at > >http://www.simmons.edu/programs/gslis/ce.html > >or contact us at: > >Graduate School of Library and Information Science >The Office of Continuing Education >Simmons College >300 The Fenway >Boston, MA 02115 >Tel: (617) 521-2803 >Fax: (617) 521-3192 >gslisce@simmons.edu > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:07:34 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Holbert Subject: Re: MA Workshop Mar 27 -- errata In-Reply-To: <199902240509.AA13188@world.std.com> Please forgive the typographical errors of the previous message. It should say: The Mass. Society of Indexers will present a one-day workshop on "Editing the Index" for both beginning and experienced indexers on March 27 in Waltham MA. $60 for ASI members. $70 for non-members. Registration required. Email Ann Daley at ADaley3521@aol.com or call or email Susan Holbert for more information. =========== Susan Holbert --- 781-893-0514 Indexing Videos: "Basic Skills" - "Manuals & Online Help" http://www.abbington.com/holbert ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:51:08 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "M. Jessie Barczak" Subject: How to subscribe This might sound moronic, but how do I instruct someone to "subscribe" to this list? I have already subscribed (hence the reference to moronism) but I forgot how to do it! Thanks a bunch, M. J. Barczak Washington, D.C. "This is me in a nut shell; Help! I'm in a nut shell! how did I get into this nutshell? What kind of nut has a shell like this one?" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:14:26 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Knoeller Subject: Numeric entries...ARG! help! Hi all, I have a problem with numeric entries in technical manuals...any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated! We currently have this type of numeric section at the head of many of our indexes: 1000BaseX... 100Base FX... 10/100 switches... FrameMaker sorts letter by letter, so the larger numbers are coming before the smaller numbers, which I hate. A couple of reference books advocate spelling numeric entries out, which would result in: O one-hundred base FX one-thousand base X... T ten/one-hundred switches This seems like a problem because these are products whose spellings, spacing, capitalization, etc are significant. I guess what I'm really asking is am I justified in rejecting this spelled-out arrangement, and is it appropriate to resort the entries according to whole number order: 10/100 switches 100BaseFX 1000BaseX Speaking for myself, I don't approach an index with the intent of going numeral by numeral; I'd be looking for "1000," not "1-0-0-0." What do you think? have you encountered this problem? I appreciate any ideas you might have! Thanks! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 17:30:42 -0500 Reply-To: "Seth A. Maislin" Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Seth A. Maislin" Subject: Re: Numeric entries...ARG! help! This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_007D_01BE60E4.917DBFE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'd consider using both a numeric section and posting these entries as = spelled-out versions, however using only the numbers section at the top = of the index is acceptable for technical manuals, in my opinion. The entries in the numbers section should be in numerical order, = however: 10/100 switches 100BaseFX 1000BaseX In FrameMaker, you can force this sorting by using square brackets in = the entry: 10/100 switches[10 100 switches] 100BaseFX [100 BaseFX] 1000BaseX [1000 BaseX] By inserting spaces, you are ensuring that "10" comes before "100" which = comes before "1000." For alphabetizing, I'd probably start with the spellings ten one hundred switches one hundred BaseFX one thousand BaseX If you have two numeric entries next to each other in the alphabetical = portion of the index, however, I always prefer numeric order. - Seth -----Original Message----- From: Julie Knoeller To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L = Date: Thursday, February 25, 1999 5:20 PM Subject: Numeric entries...ARG! help! Hi all, I have a problem with numeric entries in technical manuals...any = thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated! We currently have this type of numeric section at the head of many of = our indexes: 1000BaseX... 100Base FX... 10/100 switches... FrameMaker sorts letter by letter, so the larger numbers are coming = before the smaller numbers, which I hate. A couple of reference books advocate spelling numeric entries out, which would result in: O one-hundred base FX one-thousand base X... T ten/one-hundred switches This seems like a problem because these are products whose spellings, spacing, capitalization, etc are significant. I guess what I'm really asking is am I justified in rejecting this spelled-out arrangement, and is it appropriate to resort the entries according to whole number order: 10/100 switches 100BaseFX 1000BaseX Speaking for myself, I don't approach an index with the intent of going numeral by numeral; I'd be looking for "1000," not "1-0-0-0." What do you think? have you encountered this problem? I appreciate any ideas you might have! Thanks! ------=_NextPart_000_007D_01BE60E4.917DBFE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'd consider using both a numeric section and = posting these=20 entries as spelled-out versions, however using only the numbers section = at the=20 top of the index is acceptable for technical manuals, in my=20 opinion.
 
The entries in the numbers section should be in = numerical=20 order, however:
 
10/100 switches
100BaseFX
1000BaseX
 
In FrameMaker, you can force this sorting by using square brackets = in the=20 entry:
 
    10/100=20 switches[10 100 switches]
    100BaseFX [100 BaseFX]
    1000BaseX [1000 BaseX]
 
By inserting spaces, you are ensuring that "10" comes = before=20 "100" which comes before "1000."
 
For alphabetizing, I'd probably = start with the=20 spellings
 
ten one hundred switches
one hundred BaseFX
one thousand BaseX
 
If you have two numeric entries next to each other = in the=20 alphabetical portion of the index, however, I always prefer numeric=20 order.
 
- Seth
 
 
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Julie Knoeller <jknoelle@CISCO.COM>
To:=20 Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BING= HAMTON.EDU>
Date:=20 Thursday, February 25, 1999 5:20 PM
Subject: Numeric=20 entries...ARG! help!

Hi all,

I have a problem = with=20 numeric entries in technical manuals...any thoughts
or advice would = be=20 greatly appreciated!

We currently have this type of numeric = section at=20 the head of many of our
indexes:

1000BaseX...
100Base=20 FX...
10/100 switches...

FrameMaker sorts letter by letter, so = the=20 larger numbers are coming before
the smaller numbers, which I hate. A = couple=20 of reference books advocate
spelling numeric entries out, which would = result=20 in:

O
one-hundred base FX
one-thousand base=20 X...
T
ten/one-hundred switches

This seems like a problem = because=20 these are products whose spellings,
spacing, capitalization, etc are=20 significant.

I guess what I'm really asking is am I justified in=20 rejecting this
spelled-out arrangement, and is it appropriate to = resort the=20 entries
according to whole number order:

10/100=20 switches
100BaseFX
1000BaseX

Speaking for myself, I don't = approach=20 an index with the intent of going
numeral by numeral; I'd be looking = for=20 "1000," not "1-0-0-0."

What do you think? = have you=20 encountered this problem?
I appreciate any ideas you might=20 have!
Thanks! ------=_NextPart_000_007D_01BE60E4.917DBFE0-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:34:39 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: Numeric entries...ARG! help! In-Reply-To: <199902251715.rdbis0.kii.37kbi14@mx6.mindspring.com> I would do this: 10/100 switches 100BaseFX 1000BaseX I don't think your particular audience would look in the "t's" for these entries. And I would definately resort into numerical order as best you can, like you have it here. Jan Wright At 02:14 PM 2/25/99 -0800, you wrote: >Hi all, > >I have a problem with numeric entries in technical manuals...any thoughts >or advice would be greatly appreciated! > >We currently have this type of numeric section at the head of many of our >indexes: > >1000BaseX... >100Base FX... >10/100 switches... > >FrameMaker sorts letter by letter, so the larger numbers are coming before >the smaller numbers, which I hate. A couple of reference books advocate >spelling numeric entries out, which would result in: > >O >one-hundred base FX >one-thousand base X... >T >ten/one-hundred switches > >This seems like a problem because these are products whose spellings, >spacing, capitalization, etc are significant. > >I guess what I'm really asking is am I justified in rejecting this >spelled-out arrangement, and is it appropriate to resort the entries >according to whole number order: > >10/100 switches >100BaseFX >1000BaseX > >Speaking for myself, I don't approach an index with the intent of going >numeral by numeral; I'd be looking for "1000," not "1-0-0-0." > >What do you think? have you encountered this problem? >I appreciate any ideas you might have! >Thanks! > +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Wright Information Indexing Services http://www.wrightinformation.com Jancw@wrightinformation.com +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 18:07:06 -0500 Reply-To: youngll@banet.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lana Young Subject: Re: How to subscribe to subscribe (if I remember correctly): type listserv@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu in the subject area leave blank (or delete "no subject") in the text area type subscribe index-l your name you should receive a confirmation and must respond within 48 hours!! hope this helps Lana - a beginner indexer "M. Jessie Barczak" wrote: > This might sound moronic, but how do I instruct someone to "subscribe" to this > list? > > I have already subscribed (hence the reference to moronism) but I forgot how to > do it! > > Thanks a bunch, > > M. J. Barczak > > Washington, D.C. > > "This is me in a nut shell; Help! I'm in a nut shell! how did I > get into this nutshell? What kind of nut has a shell like this > one?" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 18:26:08 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Shari Kendrick Subject: Learning to index My name is Shari Kendrick. I have just recently found out that there is a whole profession devoted to indexing. It sounds like something that I would really enjoy doing. I have just finished reading "The Art of Indexing" and am about to try to practice indexing an already indexed book to see how I do. In "real life", I work in the medical field would like to know if anyone can give me any specific advice or references about scientific/medical indexing. I have also spent may hours working on my genealogy and would love to do some genealogy indexing. (I have spent many frustrating hours searching thru unindexed or poorly indexed genealogy materials.) I am also looking for advice and references for genealogy indexing. It seems like genealogy indexing would be relatively easier than more technical indexing and might be a better place to start learning. I have been scanning some of the index-l archives and have noticed that it is very hard to get your first indexing job. Does anyone recommend doing some free indexing (maybe for the local historical society) or indexing at much reduced rates at first to establish some credibility? What is the best way to advertise your services? Do most indexers send letters to the major publishing firms? Does it help to have already have taken the USDA indexing courses when trying to get a job? Of course, I still have alot of learning to do before I "go professional", but I will need this kind of information to write a realistic business plan. Also, I am interested in everyone's experiences with the different indexing software. Thank you in advance for your help! Shari Kendrick ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:35:22 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bibliotecaria Liceo Foscarini Subject: Re: How to subscribe + new member intro In-Reply-To: <19990225230652.HXIW13571.fep03-svc@SEGATE.SUNET.SE> At 14.51 25/02/99 -0500, you wrote: >This might sound moronic, but how do I instruct someone to "subscribe" to this > list? > I just subscribed yesterday. I found the list information at http://www.sau.edu/CWIS/Internet/Wild/Library/libindex.htm but when I looked again today there is so much information and I looked at so many sites I can find the exact site where I found the sub info. However, I do have my sub letter in my files. write to: listserv@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu SUBSCRIBE INDEX-L First name Last name write nothing in the subject field and turn off any auto-signature file. You'll get a letter to confirm your subscription with instructions on how to do it. Naturally all this should be saved or it might be difficult to un-sub if you ever need/want to leave this newsgroup. As for me, I am Juli. I am a librarian in Venice, Italy. This is my 5th library in 10 years. Because of the Political system in Italy there are no fixed library jobs as the high school level. In the past, teachers who had a few free hours here and there ran the libraries. However most had no interest and no training and invented cataloging systems that no one but they could understand. A few years ago the K-12 in Italy decided to use Dewey at the scholastic level and SBN at Univ. and antique cataloging level. At the school where I am presently working there are about 20,000 volumes to be cataloged using DD and another 20,000 rare manuscripts to catalogue using A-SDN. What concerns me at the moment is the dewey and since I am working alone, using Dewey ed. 20, but still occasionally getting stuck on what is the correct classification for a book I would like to know if I have signed up on the right list? If I have a question about cataloging, may I ask this group? I do have a question. At the moment I am cataloging dictionaries and vocabularies and while the language ones are easy I am stuck on what is the correct DD for Dictionary of Economics Dictionary of Politics Dictionary of the French Revolution If someone can give me some feed back on these three volumes I would be most grateful. regards, Juli in Venice ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 08:00:25 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: How to subscribe + new member intro At 10:35 AM 2/26/99 LCL, Bibliotecaria Liceo Foscarini wrote: >What concerns me at the moment is the dewey and since I am working alone, >using Dewey ed. 20, but still occasionally getting stuck on what is the >correct classification for a book I would like to know if I have signed up >on the right list? > >If I have a question about cataloging, may I ask this group? > Juli, Actually, for cataloging questions, you will be better off on AUTOCAT, a list for catalogers. To subscribe, send the following message to= listserv@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu: subscribe AUTOCAT firstname lastname=20 where "firstname lastname" is your name and nothing is in the subject line of your message. I got this information from a Web site and, if it is not right, let me know and I will try to find out the right way to subscribe. Good luck!=20 Cynthia Bertelsen ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen Bertelsen Indexing and Editorial Services cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.usit.com/cbertel/ "When we no longer have good cooking in the world, we will have no literature, nor high and sharp intelligence, nor friendly gatherings, no social harmony."=20 --Car=EAme ****************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:13:52 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Hernandez Subject: Re: Learning to index Shari, There is much to learn about indexing before you try to do it. I'll try to answer some of your questions: . It sounds like something that I >would >really enjoy doing. Be honest with yourself about this! When I first heard about indexing, I felt right away that I would really enjoy it. I do, and that's a good thing because getting started is difficult and requires alot of dedication. Learning to index isn't extremely hard, but getting jobs and becoming well established is a longer road to travel. I have just finished reading "The Art of Indexing" >and am >about to try to practice indexing an already indexed book to see how I >do. Practice is important and necessary, but don't expect your first try at it to be indicative of how well you'll do in the long run. Especially if you have only read one book about it. Also look at "Indexing Books" by Nancy Mulvany. In >"real life", I work in the medical field would like to know if anyone >can give >me any specific advice or references about scientific/medical >indexing. I have >also spent may hours working on my genealogy and would love to do some >genealogy indexing. (I have spent many frustrating hours searching >thru >unindexed or poorly indexed genealogy materials.) I am also looking >for advice >and references for genealogy indexing. It seems like genealogy >indexing would >be relatively easier than more technical indexing and might be a >better place >to start learning. I do mostly technical indexing. The style of indexing isn't really different, but knowing the subject matter helps. Your background would probably help you get started in medical indexing, but you will need to ask others for help on that one and the genealogy question. (Someone just asked about genealogy a couple weeks ago) > I have been scanning some of the index-l archives Keep doing this - search for information on marketing, getting that first job, resumes, contacting publishers, training, etc. (Also, a couple of us are going to work together on adding answers to questions like yours to the Index-L FAQ page. I plan on working on it as soon as my current big, horrible, horrendous, why-did-I-do-this-to- myself deadline passes) >and have >noticed that it is very hard to get your first indexing job. Does >anyone >recommend doing some free indexing (maybe for the local historical >society) or >indexing at much reduced rates at first to establish some credibility? Many people advocate volunteering to get experience. Nothing wrong with that. Many people don't advocate taking a reduced rate to get started, but I think it's a reasonable way to get experience and feedback, plus make some money and learn what a real deadline means. >What is >the best way to advertise your services? Do most indexers send letters >to the >major publishing firms? If you don't have any networking connections, your only choice is to research publishers, call them, and send your resume and sample indexes (practice books, if you have only that). Does it help to have already have taken the >USDA >indexing courses when trying to get a job? It helps you, because you learn the mechanics of indexing and get feedback from your teacher. I don't think publishers care how you learned to index. When you call them, you must present yourself as someone who knows what she's doing. How you got there doesn't matter to them. Of course, I still have >alot of >learning to do before I "go professional", but I will need this kind >of >information to write a realistic business plan. I don't have a business plan, because it really isn't that complicated a business to be in. Just decide for yourself if the income potential and your interest in the field are reasonable for your circumstances. Then embark on it if it makes sense to you. However, a marketing plan is a good thing to have - think this one through well! Also, I am interested >in >everyone's experiences with the different indexing software. Everyone likes a different package. Cindex, Macrex, and Sky are the big three. All have web sites and demos, etc. You have to decide which one suits your style best. I use Sky Pro and I think it's the greatest. Look at the American Society of Indexers web site for links to these, plus other information: http://www.asindexing.org Thank you >in >advance for your help! > Hope this does help! - Susan Hernandez *************************************** Susan Danzi Hernandez BookEnd Indexing susanhernandez@juno.com bookend@sprynet.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:18:36 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Peg Mauer Subject: Learning to index Hi Shari, You've already read one of the good books for technical indexing. I'd also recommend, _Indexing Books_ by Nancy Mulvany. This book is one of the textbooks for the USDA Basic Indexing course; the other textbook is the chapter on Indexing from the Chicago Manual of Style. I highly recommend taking the USDA course; it's a real bargain and the instructors are professional indexers with a lot of experience (see http://grad.usda.gov/corres/edit.html#edit360 for more info). Many of them subscribe to this list. I'd also suggest that you take a look at the FAQ (frequently asked questions) section of the American Society of Indexers web site (http://www.asindexing.org/indfaq.htm). The FAQ section will answer many of your other questions. Yes, it's always a good idea to do some volunteer indexing to gain experience (and it may lead to paying jobs). And yes, it helps to have taken the USDA indexing course to get jobs; it shows that you're serious about indexing and that you've had some good training. For writing indexes for genealogy-related materials, I can recommend a couple of books: - Bell, Hazel K. (1992). Indexing Biographies and Other Stories of Human Lives. London: Society of Indexers. - Hatcher, Patricia Law & Wylie, John V. (1994). Indexing Family Histories. Arlington, VA: National Genealogical Society. (You can buy it from the National Genealogical Society for $5.00; go to to find it.) And a couple of good biographical dictionaries to help with the proper indexing of names: - Cambridge Biographical Encyclopedia (1994). David Crystal, Ed. - Merriam Webster s Biographical Dictionary (1995). Merriam-Webster, Inc. For software, there are also several options: - Cindex indexing software. Indexing Research, 100 Allens Creek Road, Rochester, NY 14618-0609. (716) 461-5530. Email: info@indexres.com. Web: www.indexres.com/SKY Index indexing software. - Macrex indexing software. (I'm sure that someone else on this list can give you more info on Macrex; I don't have that info at my fingertips.) - SKY Software, 4675 York Rd #1, Lineboro, MD 21102-2153. (800) 776-0137. Email: Kamm@sky-software.com. Web: www.sky-software.com These are all good indexing programs. I'm partial toward Cindex because I'm more familiar with it, but you should also seriously consider SKY Software, which was originally designed for genealogists. It has some very handy features for indexing names. See their web site or contact Kamm@sky- software.com for more info. I'll be giving a talk about Indexing Genealogy Material at the annual ASI conference in Indianapolis June 9 - 13. The annual ASI conference is another very good way to learn more about indexing and meet other indexers. I'm sure that you can find out more about the conference at the ASI web site too (http://www.asindexing.org). Hope that helps. Peg Mauer phone: (518) 359-8616 Indexing, Technical Writing fax: (518) 359-8235 http://www.asindexing.org <-- What's Indexing? http://www.stc.org/pics/indexing/ <-- Manager of STC Indexing SIG http://members.aol.com/Pmauer <-- See my award-winning web site! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:03:57 +0000 Reply-To: connolly@neca.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dan Connolly Organization: Word For Word Indexing and Editing Services Subject: Re: Learning to index Hi Shari, I'm a beginning indexer and I hope my perspective helps. I've completed the USDA course and have been marketing my services for four months. I've landed a couple of jobs and might be able to help you out a little. You wrote (in part): > > My name is Shari Kendrick. I have just recently found out that there is a > whole profession devoted to indexing. It sounds like something that I would > really enjoy doing. I have just finished reading "The Art of Indexing" and am > about to try to practice indexing an already indexed book to see how I do. That's a great book. It was the book I first read when I became interested in indexing. Then I read Indexing A to Z by Hans Wellisch and Indexing Books by Nancy Mulvany. > (snipped material re: medical/genealogy indexing--not my area) > I have been scanning some of the index-l archives and have > noticed that it is very hard to get your first indexing job. Does anyone > recommend doing some free indexing (maybe for the local historical society) or > indexing at much reduced rates at first to establish some credibility? What is > the best way to advertise your services? Do most indexers send letters to the > major publishing firms? Does it help to have already have taken the USDA > indexing courses when trying to get a job? You seem to have a pretty good handle on marketing your indexing services (when you're ready). I did a free index for a local history and am looking for another local job like it, but I wouldn't reccommend doing an index at "much reduced rates" for a publisher. If you've scanned the Index-L archives, then you're probably aware of the debate around beginner's rates. I've got a figure in my head for my lowest rate, but in the real world and depending on how business is going, everything is subject to change. I might accept a lower rate than I'm planning on, but I would never quote an intentionally low figure just to land the job. I'm not sure if I'm conveying my position clearly here. I, personally, don't believe these low rates will truly help you "establish some credibility." You've also got to do some market research before contacting these publishers. You may or may not want to specialize in a field, but you should at least know what types (field and complexity) of books the publishers do, and explain how you can help them, or why they should use you and not the other 3 indexers who handle all their work for the last 15 years. As far as marketing goes, there are the typical routes: phone calls and letters. And there are the not-so-typical: web sites, e-mail, print ads. There are also ways specific to indexing: joining ASI and a local chapter and networking. The main thing you've go to do is approach your marketing as your job when starting your business. I would make a minimum number of "contacts" with publishers each week. I'm currently doing a mininum of 10, although most weeks are more than that. For me, a contact is a phone call and letter (or e-mail). Since you don't have any indexing work, your marketing must become your work for awhile. You should strive to put on a professional face during this phase as it will directly affect the way you are viewed as an indexer. Basically, you'll need to invest the time and money it takes to get your name out there. Your letterhead, envelopes, and business cards should be professional looking. I went out and had mine printed, but you may like some of the do-it-yourself programs. Your phone presentation can be critical, and you may or may not want to use a script (or "talking points"). Regarding the USDA course, I heartily reccommend it. It's well worth the price and brings you along gradually, while you develop skills and confidence. If you do a good job, your instructor might be a reference in helping you land your first jobs. You can also join Indexstudents list (http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/indexstudents), a list of more than 200 beginning and experienced indexers, who discuss the USDA course, professional development and other topics relating to indexer education. There are even weekly "exercises" to practice term selection or other skills and compare with other indexers. > Of course, I still have alot of > learning to do before I "go professional", but I will need this kind of > information to write a realistic business plan. Also, I am interested in > everyone's experiences with the different indexing software. Thank you in > advance for your help! > I started marketing around lesson 8 of the USDA course (figuring it would take some time before I even lucked into a job). I spent a lot of time reading, practicing, asking questions, lurking here, and attending local presentations put on by my ASI chapter (Mass.) before I felt ready to hang out my shingle. I hope this helps a little. Dan -- ============================= Daniel A. Connolly mailto:connolly@neca.com Word For Word Indexing Services http://www.wfwIndex.necaweb.com Woodstock, CT, USA ============================= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 22:29:52 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: TBrtrm@AOL.COM Subject: Footers I received a document from a client in MIME. I was able to decode it, but I couldn't find the page numbers. Upon inquiring, I was informed by my client that the page numbers are on the footers. I don't find "footer" in any of my resources. Can anyone help me on this? Also what might >> indicate? An insertion? Feeling stupid!!! Thelda ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 05:26:06 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: junemorrison Subject: Re: Learning to index - medical etc A purpose written small book (60pp) is; , Blake et al., Society of Indexers Occasional Papers on Indexin= g No 3 (1995) available from Dorothy Frame, 26 Draycott Road Wanstead Londo= n E11 2NX - Phone (0)181 530 2727 Fax (0)181 989 3791. This will help when you have the basics of indexing. Macrex is recommended and there is a Macrex-List discussion group. June ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 17:32:07 GMT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Paul Nash Subject: Re: Learning to index - medical etc Correction to June Morrison's message: > A purpose written small book (60pp) is; Blake et al., Society of Indexers Occasional Papers on Indexing > No 3 (1995) available from: SOCIETY OF INDEXERS (SALES) GLOBE CENTRE PENISTONE ROAD SHEFFIELD S6 3AE UK tel: +44 (0)114 281 3060 fax: +44 (0)114 281 3061 e-mail: admin@socind.demon.co.uk URL: http://www.socind.demon.co.uk (BTW, it's a very helpful small book.) Paul Nash ********* Perth PH2 0QB, Scotland. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 11:50:54 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: Footers In-Reply-To: <199902270325.WAA22337@mail5.bellsouth.net> A "footer" is like a "header," except it's at the bottom of the page. (Which is sort of a strange way to do page numbers...) The problem is, it has nothing to do with MIME. MIME is the way the attachment is encoded for travel over the Internet. But the formatting of headers, footers, and so on are handled differently by every word processor, and I suspect you would have to have a copy of that wp program (and probably of the specific version used) in order to view the footers, or anything else that was included in the way of special formatting. This is why it's generally better to transmit formatted files in a ZIPped form, which preserves all proprietary formatting... Mike Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net ICQ #15741870 http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ THESAURUS (n.): An ancient reptile with an excellent vocabulary. |-----Original Message----- |From: Indexer's Discussion Group |[mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of TBrtrm@AOL.COM |Sent: Friday, February 26, 1999 9:30 PM |To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L |Subject: Footers | | |I received a document from a client in MIME. I was able to decode |it, but I |couldn't find the page numbers. Upon inquiring, I was informed by |my client |that the page numbers are on the footers. I don't find "footer" |in any of my |resources. Can anyone help me on this? | |Also what might |>> indicate? An insertion? | |Feeling stupid!!! |Thelda | ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 17:23:49 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Learning to index << - Macrex indexing software. (I'm sure that someone else on this list can give you more info on Macrex; I don't have that info at my fingertips.) >> Call Gale Rhoades (U.S. distributor and support) at 650-756-0821, or go to the website at http://www.macrex.cix.co.uk/ Do Mi Stauber ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 20:23:24 PST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Manjit Sahai Subject: ASI conf.....credit card payment Hi everyone, I mailed my ASI conf. registration form on Feb. 26 which I downloaded from ASI website and on that form I have given my AMEX card# for the conf. payment. I mailed my form to ASI address in Phoenix, AZ. Today on Saturday Feb. 27, I have received the *real* conf. form in the mail. On page 10 it shows in parens a different address for *credit card preocessor* payments. This new address for credit card paymenta was *not* listed on the form which I downloaded from the site. Does this mean that my form should have been mailed to Glendale, AZ. address? Am I understanding right? Can someone help me in this clarification? I do not have a clue why there is a different address for credit card payments? Manjit K. Sahai RAM Indexing Services ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 06:03:18 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: ASI credit card transactions P.M.& R. is the business name for Bonnie Parks-Davies, the ASI Administrative Office manager. She processes ASI's credit card payments, and 'P.M.& R.', in Glendale, AZ, is the name that appears on credit card statements for all credit card transactions with ASI. The Phoenix P.O. box number on the registration form is ASI's administrative office address, and the correct one to use for conference registrations and all other correspondence with ASI. Carolyn Weaver ASI Treasurer ======================================================================== Manjit Sahai said: Today on Saturday Feb. 27, I have received the *real* conf. form in the mail. On page 10 it shows in parens a different address for *credit card preocessor* payments. This new address for credit card paymenta was *not* listed on the form which I downloaded from the site. Does this mean that my form should have been mailed to Glendale, AZ. address? Am I understanding right? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:15:45 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Schroeder Subject: Re: ASI conf.....credit card payment The address that you mail your registration to is the Phoenix Address. The company that ASI uses to process the credit card payments is in Glendale. When you receive your billing statement, you will see that the charge was processed by P.M.and R. based in Glendale. This will be your ASI charges. The P.M.and R. was given so that when someone sees that name, they will know who it is. Sandi Schroeder V.P., ASI -----Original Message----- From: Manjit Sahai To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Saturday, February 27, 1999 10:25 PM Subject: ASI conf.....credit card payment >Hi everyone, > >I mailed my ASI conf. registration form on Feb. 26 which I downloaded >from ASI website and on that form I have given my AMEX card# for the >conf. payment. I mailed my form to ASI address in Phoenix, AZ. > >Today on Saturday Feb. 27, I have received the *real* conf. form in the >mail. On page 10 it shows in parens a different address for *credit card >preocessor* payments. This new address for credit card paymenta was >*not* listed on the form which I downloaded from the site. > >Does this mean that my form should have been mailed to Glendale, AZ. >address? Am I understanding right? > >Can someone help me in this clarification? I do not have a clue why >there is a different address for credit card payments? > >Manjit K. Sahai >RAM Indexing Services > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 08:40:26 -0800 Reply-To: jeanmidd@prodigy.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jean Middleton Subject: A great URL to Check out! This is a site for term definitions. They are extremely thorough. http://whatis/ Try GUI as a sample to see their thoroughness. You will want to bookmark it for future use. Jean ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:56:34 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: ROBJRICH@AOL.COM Subject: Veni Vidi Vici Redux Hi - I like: "Veni, Vedi, Visa" (I came, I saw, I did some shopping!) Bob