Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9901A" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 18:17:17 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: CoLIS3 Subject: [ANNOUNCEMENT] CoLIS3 Preliminary Program <> Dear colleague, Please consider attending the CoLIS 3 conference with the theme "Digital Libraries." The Preliminary Program is provided below, We will appreciate if you forward this to interested colleagues and post it on listserves to which you subscribe. Thanks for the consideration, Tefko Saracevic Third International Conference on Conceptions of Library and Information Science (CoLIS 3) DIGITAL LIBRARIES: Interdisciplinary Concepts, Challenges and Opportunities Dubrovnik, Croatia, 23 - 26 May 1999 Organized by: ------------- * University of Zagreb, Croatia; * University of Tampere, Finland; * Royal School of Library and Information Science, Copenhagen, Denmark and * Rutgers University, New Brunswick, NJ, USA Program Chair: -------------- Tefko Saracevic, Rutgers University, USA. Email: colis3@scils.rutgers.edu Preliminary Program ------------------- Registration and detailed information available at http://www.colis3.hr or http://scils.rutgers.edu/colis3 Email: colis3@ffzg.hr For description of Dubrovnik, the venue city, see: http://www.tel.fer.hr/dubrovnik Sunday, May 23, 1999 -------------------- Preconference Tutorial - full day. * Ed Fox, USA: Digital libraries: An overview * Evening - WELCOME RECEPTION Monday, May 24, 1999 -------------------- + Opening session + Session 1: CONTEXT - the big picture * Michael Buckland, USA (Invited speaker): Vocabulary as a central concept in library and information science * Bryce Allen, USA: Digital libraries and the end of traditional information systems * Christine Borgman, USA: What are digital libraries, who is building them, and why? + Session 2: RELATIONS * Raphael Capurro, Germany (Invited speaker): * Amanda Spink & Colleen Cool, USA: Developing digital library education: international perspectives on theory and practice * Paul Sturges & Jesica Sambok, UK: Humanities scholarship, the research library and the digital library + Session 3: EVALUATION * Louise Su & Hsin-liang Chen, USA: User evaluation of Web search engines * Wanda Dole & Jitka Hurych, USA: Evaluating libraries in the electronic age: New ways of measuring collection and use. * Jane Reid, Scotland: A new task-oriented paradigm for information retrieval: Implications for evaluation of information retrieval systems * Evening - CULTURAL EVENT Tuesday, May 25, 1999 --------------------- + Session 4: MANAGEMENT * Michael Gorman, USA (Invited speaker) * Christine Dugdale, UK: Managing digital collections: New opportunities and new roles for librarians * Robert Hayes, USA: The economics of digital libraries + PANEL: International cooperation in digital libraries: Harold Thimbleby , UK, Moderator Short papers with posters: DIGITAL LIBRARY CONCEPTIONS & APPLICATIONS --------------------------------------------------------------------- * William Adams, Bernard Jansen & Todd Smith, USA: Planning, building, and using a distributed digital library. * Jasna Dravec-Braun,Croatia: Is it possible to build an online union catalogue without a library system? * Gordon Dunsire, UK: Evolving the learning landscape at Napier University. * Emmanouel Garoufallou, Greece: The impact of information technology on Greek academic libraries and librarians: Preliminary results * Marianne Hummelsh=F8j & Nanna Skovtrup, Denmark: Internet reference services in a digitalized public library * Damir Kalpic, Jasenka Anzil & Hrvoje Zokovic, Croatia: From the traditional to a digital academic library. * Maria Kocojowa & Wanda Pindlowa, Poland: A digital library for LIS researchers and students: General concepts. * Michael Middleton, Australia: Meta-information incorporation in library digitisation projects. * Paul Nieuwenhuysen* & Wouter Mettrop=A4, *Belgium, =A4Netherlands: Internet information retrieval tools: which ones to use? * Trine Schreiber & Camilla Moring, Denmark: Danish research libraries in a networked learning environment. * Jadranka Stojanovski & Aida Slavic,Croatia: Electronic bibliography: its reliability and impact on the concept of bibliography in general * Yin Leng Theng,, UK: Framework for an application development model to build user-centered digital libraries * Branko Zebek & Tvrtko Sercar, Slovenia: The use of internet in special libraries in Slovenia. + Evening:- BANQUET Wednesday, May 26, 1999 ----------------------- + Session 5: DESIGN * Diane Sonnenwald et al., USA: Collaboration services in a preparatory digital library: An emerging design * Philip Doty & Sandra Erdelez, USA: A digital library of legal case documents + Session 6: REPRESENTATION * Bryn Lewis, Australia: Automatic electronic document organisation * Zheng Wang, Linda Hill, Terrence Smith: Alexandria Digital Library metadata creator with extensible markup language. + Session 7: INTERACTION * Preben Hansen, Sweden: User interface design for IR interaction: A task oriented approach * Nils Pharo, Norway: Web information search strategies: A method for classifying Web interaction + Session 8: INFORMATION RETRIEVAL * Ian Ruthven* & =A4Mounia Lalmas, *Scotland & =A4Germany: Selective relevance feedback using term characteristics * Kai Korpimies & Esko Ukkonen, Finland: Term frequency-based identification of FAQ-articles * Per Ahlgren, Sweden: On a cognitive search strategy + Session 9: DIGITAL LIBRARIES AND MASS MEDIA * Denis McQuale, Netherlands (Invited speaker): * Sussanne =D8rnager, Denmark: Image archives in newspaper editorial offices: A service activity. * Jerome Aumente, USA: Digital libraries within the context of mass media structures Thursday, May 27, 1999 ---------------------- Postconference WORKSHOPS (free for registrants) * Workshop 1. Sanda Erdelez; Philip Doty, USA: Developing a small-scale digital library with Adobe Acrobat: Techniques and issues * Workshop 2. Paul B. Kantor, USA: Metrics and evaluation for Digital Libraries. Postconference TOURS (to be announced) -------------------- /.\/.\/.\/.\/.\/.\/.\/.\/.\/.\/.\/.\/.\/.\/.\/.\ Radovan Vrana Member of the CoLIS3 Local Organizing Committee Research Assistant Department of Information Sciences Faculty of Philosophy I. Lucica 3 10000 Zagreb, CROATIA e-mail: rvrana@ffzg.hr /.\/.\/.\/.\/.\/.\/.\/.\/.\/.\/.\/.\/.\/.\/.\/.\ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 13:55:13 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Munro Subject: Re: Chinese names Thanks to everyone who replied to my query. Great help. This is what index-l is about! Happy New Year (Western, that is - not Chinese!) to you all. Richard Munro RM Editorial Services +44-1359-271023 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 14:57:06 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" Subject: Re: Central and Eastern Europe Hi there all! Let me first say THANK YOU to all the people who have given me information about the Baltics/Balkans/Central/East Europe and "FSU." Secondly, it was MY mistake; the author included Slovakia with the Balkans, not Baltic states. But other authors do not. (I even checked my email to make sure I had typed the right one in, but my mind wasn't working; apparently I only checked the first three letters: "Bal.." ! ) I now have a clearer picture of all the recent changes, thanks to the list, plus a lot of sources to refer to. Paula Durbin-Westby ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 23:52:22 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: EMickiT@AOL.COM Subject: boxing matches I need to know this by Monday AM and may be able to check this from other sources, but is there a proper way to site boxing matches? The editor wants boxing as the main heading, and the specific matches will be subs (along with other subs). For example, is it Foreman vs. Holyfield or is it Holyfield vs. Foreman? Is there some custom as to whose name goes first, such as defending heavyweight champ and then challenger? The book is on sports in general, not just boxing. The other matches mentioned are: Chavez vs. De La Hoya Douglas vs. Holyfield Holyfield vs. Tyson 1996 Holyfield vs. Tyson 1997 (The 1997 Holyfield-Tyson was the infamous ear-biting match.) Should I even be using "vs." or is it usually Holyfield-Tyson, with the hyphen? Thanks so much for your help, Micki Taylor (I do have separate entries for each fighter, too.) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 00:21:28 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: EMickiT@AOL.COM Subject: Re: question on children's activities book In a message dated 98-12-30 16:57:08 EST, you write: << Each 4-page theme section has some arts & crafts, indoor games, outdoor games, suggested snacks and a list of related books, music and videos. At the end of the book is a list of additional theme-related books and a list of stores and catalogs. ... 3. Should I mention the books in the index? For example, I could have an entry "books" with subentries for each theme. I'm not sure if I should do this because it will make a long entry. Also, the reader knows that each theme has its own list of books. But, I don't want to leave out anything important in the index, either. Any suggestions? >> Because each theme is only 4 pages long, it should not be necessary to index the books, music and videos. Since everything related to a specific theme is included in such a short page span, you shouldn't need details. The reader can go directly to the entry for the theme. I don't know how the list of books at the end is structured. You said there was a theme section on airplanes. If the list in the back has books on airplanes, and they are not duplicates of the ones included in the 4 page theme, you might want to add the page number to the entry "airplanes." My guess is that the book has a lot of issues that new indexers have to think through, so you will get a good "workout." It also sounds like fun. I hope it is. Congrats on doing your first index, Erin (Micki) Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 00:03:04 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: boxing matches In-Reply-To: <199901020523.XAA19775@mixcom.mixcom.com> >The other matches mentioned are: >Chavez vs. De La Hoya >Douglas vs. Holyfield >Holyfield vs. Tyson 1996 >Holyfield vs. Tyson 1997 >(The 1997 Holyfield-Tyson was the infamous ear-biting match.) > >Should I even be using "vs." or is it usually Holyfield-Tyson, with the >hyphen? > Ideally, you should run these questions by your editor, but anyway here's what I'd do. I'd keep the "vs." if the text cites the matches that way. And I would double-post each match, giving each of the names first place. Even if there's some convention about listing defending champs first, if this sports book is for a general audience, chances are that a good portion of the audience won't know that convention, so they need to have 'em double-posted. Hope this helps. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 09:22:20 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Margie Towery Subject: Re: boxing matches Not sure if this will help, as it is from an academic book focused on a single fighter (Ali) rather than a broader scope, but here's what I did in one of my earlier indexes. Since the book was about Ali, I had a main heading "fights" (that term was used for more than boxing matches, but the latter would also be appropriate--maybe X-ref? I had a see also from boxing) and under that listed all the fights. Any that Ali was in were listed Ali-X, Ali-Y, Ali-Z and then of course others followed (e.g., Liston-Patterson). Other fighters had their matches also listed under their heading, except for Ali, where I used a see also. Since all Ali's fights fell alpha first, I felt the reader didn't have to wade through too much and it is immediately clear that non-Ali fights fall at the end of the subheads. (good typesetting luck there) Also, the writer did use Ali-Whoever, with a hyphen, in the text, so that's what I did in the index. Snowed in/snowed under in Indiana :) Margie Towery Towery Indexing Service ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 09:56:12 -0500 Reply-To: billgrah@bhip.infi.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: billgraham Organization: InfiNet Subject: Directions '99 Dear indexers: My name is Bill Graham. I write about Upcoming Events for the A to Z newsletter. The newsletter is produced by the indexing special interest group of the Society for Technincal communication. I would like to announce a need for a professional indexer at the Directions '99 conference. Julian Hacker, the contact person for the conference, told me that there are no indexing sessions planned for the conference right now. A session on the importance of indexing or basic indexing skills would be ideal for the conference. Anyone who would like to lead a session needs to contact Julian Hacker soon. The deadline for a proposal is January 15, 1999. I have left some details about the conference below. Do not contact me. I will be out of town for the next two weeks. Location: Mercer University in Macon, GA Dates: March 27 (reception March 26 evening) Audience: students, professors and practicing technical communicators Contact person: Julian Hacker E-mail: jfhacker@mindspring.com Phone:(770)-934-7616 Thanks for your help and have a prosperous new year. Sincerely, Bill Graham ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 13:07:56 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barbara A. Wallace" Subject: AZ ASI Professional Development Workshop - Feb 6, 1999 Please post. Finessing the Index A Workshop for Intermediate Indexers Featuring Enid Zafran Sponsored by the American Society of Indexers, Arizona Chapter This workshop will focus on the steps to take to present the most polished index for publication. Attendees are expected to have some prior indexing experience, since this is not a course aimed at beginners. Enid will describe the finishing touches that distinguish a professionally prepared index. After the initial indexing is complete, further refinements are vital: 7Edit the index 7Identify and cure organizational problems 7Verify cross-references 7Use software to facilitate checks 7Format the index Enid also will discuss special indexing challenges, including: 7Books with multiple authors and inconsistent terminology 7Getting off to a quick start 7Common publisher and author complaints The workshop will include hands-on exercises. About Ms. Zafran Enid is director of indexing services at Bureau of National Affairs, an information company in Washington, D.C. She oversees a staff of 45 indexers who meet over 2,000 deadlines a year for both print and electronic products. Enid has a freelance indexing business, Indexing Partners, which is in its ninth year of operation. In addition to legal indexing, she has authored indexes in the fields of psychology, education, speech, history, health care, political science, and environmental science. She previously worked at Banks-Baldwin Law Publishing Co., where she held the positions of manager of indexing, vice president of editorial, and vice president of new product development. Enid also teaches indexing. She has served on the national board of the American Society of Indexers and is chair of the publications committee for the Society. With over 20 years of indexing experience, she has trained numerous indexers and given presentations on indexing at national conferences of the American Society of Indexers and American Society of Information Science. Enid has a masters in library science, a J.D., and an LL.M. in labor law. Fee $65 members $80 nonmembers The fee includes continental breakfast, lunch, refreshments, and workshop materials. When Saturday, February 6 Registration 8:30 a.m. Workshop 9 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. Where YWCA Of The USA Leadership Development Conference Center 9440 N. 25th Avenue Phoenix, AZ 85021 Registration To register for the workshop, send a check made out to ASI to: Carol Chroneos 1960 East Bendix Drive Tempe, AZ, 85283 Please include your name, address, and phone number. DEADLINE FOR REGISTRATION IS JANUARY 22, 1999. For more information, call Kathy Little in Mesa (602-820-4709) or Sarah Harris in Tucson (520-733-6346). Or check the Arizona ASI web site at http://aztec.asu.edu/azasi/. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 12:09:29 PST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Juliana Dotsenko Subject: indexing law books I've subscribed to Index-L for some time now, but this is the first message I've ever posted. I hope I've done everything correctly. I'm interested in indexing law books (I'm an attorney, so familiarity with the subject matter wouldn't be a problem). I'm wondering if there is a market for new indexers in this particular field. Would it be advisable for me to build my resume by first indexing other types of books and then attempt to obtain work from law book publishers, or would I appear foolish if I went straight for the law book publishers, assuming that I've completed an indexing course? Thanks, Juliana ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 20:35:10 -0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Headley Subject: Re: indexing law books From Christine Headley Juliana Dotsenko wrote >I'm interested in indexing law books (I'm an attorney, so familiarity >with the subject matter wouldn't be a problem). I'm wondering if there >is a market for new indexers in this particular field. Yes! Though you may find it useful to be quite close to your publishers (I don't know about American law publishers' attitudes as I'm a Brit). Would it be >advisable for me to build my resume by first indexing other types of >books and then attempt to obtain work from law book publishers, or would >I appear foolish if I went straight for the law book publishers, >assuming that I've completed an indexing course? You know what you look for in an index, so you needn't be embarrassed about going to law publishers straight away. It might be a while before anyone comes back to you, so explore other fields as well, but if it's your field of expertise, go for it. When I went to Hong Kong two years ago, I was astonished to find that I doubled the number of indexers there and there were several law publishers urgently in need of indexes. So much so that when I went back to England for the summer one sent a book to me to do while I was away! I know of one law book indexer here who has a niche and never indexes anything outside. If you have expertise in one aspect of the law, you could do worse than aim at selling yourself with your speciality. It may not work, but if anything appeals to you it might be worth a try. If you change your mind, I doubt any publisher will remember when you send an updated letter. Watch out for the publisher who asks for indexing by paragraph and then lets paragraphs extend to 20+ pages. (I kid you not, it happened to me. I insisted on changing it to pages which was a terrible job, I quoted a ludicrously small sum for the extra toil and they tried to beat me down. It was so slow it didn't justify paying for childcare while I was doing it. I leave you to imagine the gnashing of teeth that went on.) Best of luck Christine Headley Stroud, Glos ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 17:08:58 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ping Yi Subject: Re: Chinese names Hi, all: Generally speaking, the Chineses names have the inverted order compared with the American's. Such as my name is Yi Ping in Chinese name scheme, but in English is Ping Yi or Yi, Ping. Through reading some English biography, encyclopedia etc and as I can remember, this rule is for most ordinary Chinese people's name. For the well-known Chinese figures such as politics, scientists, writers, philosophers etc. can keep the Chinese name's order and don't need to invert the family name and first name in the Western literature, Such as Mao Zetong, Deng Xiaoping, Kuhn FROO shuhs ( Confucius: the most influential and respected philosopher in Chinese history)etc. In terms of the name of place related to geography, such as city, resorts, river, sea, mountain, or others, just keep the Chinese name's order such as Huang He, Shang Hai that generally originated from "PingYin" spelling etc. I took the index course under Dr. Jorgensen's guidance last Fall semester and think about that it would be good to set the index rules for the names and other items for index in no English. PING YI: SILS student, UB (716)446-0873 pingyi@acsu.buffalo.edu On Thu, 31 Dec 1998, Paul Corrington wrote: > Chinese names are a combination of two sets of names. Using your example, Mao > Zedong, Mao is a name of a "clan" not a family. Zedong is the individual's > name. The names are not inverted. Clan name comes first, followed by the > individual's name or Mao Zedong. > > Hope this helps. > > Paul Corrington > Corrington Indexing Service > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 17:14:00 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: EMickiT@AOL.COM Subject: Re: boxing matches In a message dated 99-01-02 01:01:30 EST, Carol writes: << Ideally, you should run these questions by your editor, but anyway here's what I'd do. I'd keep the "vs." if the text cites the matches that way. >> Oops, I forgot to state that the author never sites a fight by Holyfield vs. Tyson or Holyfield-Tyson. He simply talks about the fight and or the fighter. (You are probably aware that one has a behavior problem, so there is plenty to say. I found a web site tacky enough to have a photo of a piece of Holyfield's ear on the canvas.) I consulted the editor about an issue similar to the use of vs. or hypen and she said to let the copy editor fix it. I'll do that, but am too picky not to make a good try at getting it right. Most of the boxing internet sites use vs, so I have decided to go with that. (I used sites run by CBS, ESPN, USA Today, etc. so I had a greater chance of getting conventions sports fans are accustomed to.) I don't really need to double post the fight itself, as the fighters have separate entries and, for the most, part there are not enough page references to warrant subentires under the person's name. The fight itself is entered as a sub under "boxing." I could get around the whole issue by listing the fighters, rather than the fights, as subentries under "boxing," as the author tends to concentrate a little more on the character of the fighters than on the events of the match. The book is more about people than events, in most cases. Thanks to those who have written so far. I have changed the entries to list the champion first then the challenger and will explain it to the editor. For those of you who want to comment, the only question is who the champ was before the 1996 Holyfield vs. Tyson. The author does not say. He is dead, so I cannot ask him. I will be able to contact a sports editor Monday, if he is not out of the office, but that's cutting the deadline a little close. I could not find lists of fights before 1997 on the web, and I keep getting thrown off, which is why I am back here on Index-L asking the experts. By the way, the book is definitely written for avid, avid sports fans. No contest. Normally I would hate to read a sports book, but he is a good writer with a sense of humor and he takes a strong stand for sportsmanship over winning at all costs. So I am enjoying the job. Sorry for the long post. I may be going stir-crazy out here on the icy Kansas praire. Thanks again, Erin (Micki) Taylor Found on e-joke.com: Top 10 Slogans for THE Rematch: Tyson vs. Holyfield III: (2-10 dont' really count) 1. Why? Because You're Dumb Enough to Pay for It! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 19:41:08 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bonnie Taylor Subject: Re: indexing law books << I'm interested in indexing law books (I'm an attorney, so familiarity with the subject matter wouldn't be a problem). I'm wondering if there is a market for new indexers in this particular field. >> I'm also an attorney and a fairly new indexer (2 years). I lucked into a situation working (freelance) under another indexer who does a lot of legal books. Although I have actually indexed only one legal book entirely on my own (and that was one I got from a publisher I've done a lot of legal editing for), I have gained a lot of valuable experience doing things like tables of cases and indexes for updates--that sort of thing. In November, a fellow index-l subscriber posted a job for West--doing a table of cases and a table of statutes for a copyright book. I contacted the editor and got the job. Perhaps more experienced indexers wouldn't be interested in this sort of project, but I was thrilled to pick up a quick (relatively) $500 just before the holidays! (Not to mention how excited I was to be doing a job for the Big Mac-Daddy of legal publishing!) Good luck to you! Bonnie Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 20:02:23 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: boxing matches On 1/2/1999 4:14 PM EMickiT@aol.com wrote (in part): >For those of you who want to comment, the only question is who the champ was >before the 1996 Holyfield vs. Tyson. Seems to be Mike Tyson for the WBA and Michael Moorer for the IBF. The WBC championship may or may not have been vacant. I'm looking at a 1997 World Almanac which was published before the Holyfield/Tyson fight. An unlikely source for boxing commentary, is Joyce Carol Oates, should you have access to a major library. Good luck on your project. Sounds like you're tracking well. Cheers, Craig Brown ===================================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing http://www/i1.net/~lastword (314)352-9094 fax: (314)481-9254 ===================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 22:35:55 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PDepri5514@AOL.COM Subject: Re: indexing law books In a message dated 1/2/99 7:42:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, Bonald@AOL.COM writes: << m also an attorney and a fairly new indexer (2 years). I lucked into a situation working (freelance) under another indexer who does a lot of legal books. Although I have actually indexed only one legal book entirely on my own (and that was one I got from a publisher I've done a lot of legal editing for), I have gained a lot of valuable experience doing things like tables of cases and indexes for updates--that sort of thing. >> Bonnie; Did you get an education in indexing or did you just jump into legal indexing. I mean, I thought it would be better to get educated. Just in case an attorney can't find legal indexing work right away. :-) Patrick ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 11:33:22 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jan Williams Subject: biographies Dear indexers, Happy New Year to you all. I'm hoping some of you will share a bit of your collective expertise and guidance regarding a question about an index for a biography. I'm trying to extend my skills in preparation for indexing a literary biography. After reading through various indexing references, I searched through the local library for some examples of indexes in recent biographies. I was disappointed to find that, for the most part, they were organized as "an index within an index", e.g. everything related to the biographee, was listed under his/her name within the index. These would run on for many columns, and even pages, quite confusing espcially when using "run-on" style. Frequently the subheadings were organized by locator rather than alphabetically. The balance of these indexes seemed to be predominantely lists of names and places. Please pardon my ignorance here, but I would assume that the meta-topic of a book would be understood to be the obvious meta-heading of the index for that book. Therefore the index should not need an entry for this individual. Specific things related to him/her, such as life events, works, tone of writing, etc., would be indexed under "birth", "irony", name of work, etc., with the implicit understanding that they refer to this person. Furthermore, I would hope that a good biography would offer lots of interesting themes and ideas that could/should be included in the index, in addition to names and places. What do you think? Thanks in advance! Jan Williams jan.williams@valley.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 13:05:28 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: biographies > The balance of these indexes seemed to be predominantely lists of names >and places. (friendly snip) >Furthermore, I would hope that a good biography would offer lots of >interesting themes and ideas that could/should be included in the index, >in addition to names and places. This may be due as much to space considerations as to the indexer's preference or expertise. In a biography, a reader will expect to be able to find people's names, places, names of major events, etc. These must be included if the index is to be useful to researchers. If there isn't enough room to fit themes and ideas as well as facts, the facts are likely to win out, because they are what the majority of readers will need to find. > Please pardon my ignorance here, but I would assume that the meta-topic of a > book would be understood to be the obvious meta-heading of the index for that > book. Therefore the index should not need an entry for this individual. > Specific things related to him/her, such as life events, works, tone of > writing, etc., would be indexed under "birth", "irony", name of work, etc., > with the implicit understanding that they refer to this person. I'm not sure I would assume that the meta-topic is the obvious meta-heading in a biography, since as you point out, so many biographies do provide extensive indexing under the individual's name. If you go the route of "spreading out" the entries relating to the biographee, a cross-reference should direct the reader from the individual's name to the life events, works, etc. Perhaps with examples, like this: Doe, John life. _See specific life events such as_ birth; courtship; deat h literary criticism of. _See_ works; _and under specific works_ works. _See specific works_ Works humor in irony in You'll notice that I also gathered "tone of writing" stuff under works; that's just one possibility that occurs to me, based on your example. If you used "irony" as a main heading, you should probably cross-reference specifically to that, since it's not something the reader would automatically look up if they want information on John Doe's writings. A really good reference on the subject, which was recently recommended to me, is "Indexing Biographies: And Other Stories of Human Lives" by Hazel K. Bell. I borrowed a copy from another indexer, but your local library could probably get it through interlibrary loan. Good luck! Kara Pekar jkpekar@crosslink.net Wordsmith Indexing Services 8112 Harrison Dr. King George, VA 22485 (540) 775-4072 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 15:46:28 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bonnie Taylor Subject: Re: indexing law books Patrick: I took a 2-day beginning indexing course at EEI in Alexandria, VA. I just had the extremely good fortune of having as my instructor the indexer who became my mentor. After the EEI course, I went to the ASI convention in Winston- Salem, NC, for a day's worth of seminars on Cindex. The next year I took a 1-day advanced seminar. Everything else, I've learned on the job! I do admit that my situation was largely serendipity and would be hard to replicate step by step. But I do think there is a lot of potential out there for legal indexers! :) Bonnie << Bonnie; Did you get an education in indexing or did you just jump into legal indexing. I mean, I thought it would be better to get educated. Just in case an attorney can't find legal indexing work right away. :-) Patrick >> ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 17:27:25 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Shana Milkie Subject: Re: question on children's activities book In-Reply-To: <199901020522.AAA13643@server1.mich.com> To E. Micki Taylor and the Index-L list: Thanks for your advice and encouragement! I'm still mulling over about how to reference the lists of books in the children's activities book I'm indexing. Each 4-page theme section has some arts & crafts, indoor games, outdoor games, suggested snacks and a list of related books, music and videos. At the end of the book is a list of additional books (several under each theme) and a list of stores and catalogs. While I agree it would be excessive to list a page number for each set of theme-related books (this would give 104 locators; 2 for each theme; 1 for each main theme section and 1 for each theme in the extra book list at the end of the book), I'd still like to somehow include the presence of the books in the index. The index would seem incomplete without it, somehow. Do you know of a device, similar to a general cross-reference, that directs readers to look in the BOOK under specific topics, not within the INDEX? I'm envisioning something like books. listed on the second page of each theme; more recommendations, 210-215 Thanks again for your help. - Shana Milkie, an aspiring indexer (e-mail: smilkie@mich.com) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 18:27:26 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barry Rofman Organization: @Home Network Subject: Re: question on children's activities book How about books, see specific themes; bibliography and under each theme have books as a subheading with locator and, see also bibliography i.e. playdough books,... see also bibliography Rebecca Rofman Shana Milkie wrote: > > To E. Micki Taylor and the Index-L list: > > Thanks for your advice and encouragement! > > I'm still mulling over about how to reference the lists of books in the > children's activities book I'm indexing. Each 4-page theme section has some > arts & crafts, indoor games, outdoor games, suggested snacks and a list of > related books, > music and videos. At the end of the book is a list of additional books > (several > under each theme) and a list of stores and catalogs. > > While I agree it would be excessive to list a page number for each set > of theme-related books (this would give 104 locators; 2 for each theme; > 1 for each main theme section and 1 for each theme in the extra book list > at the end of the book), I'd still like to somehow include the presence > of the books in the index. The index would seem incomplete without it, > somehow. > > Do you know of a device, similar to a general cross-reference, that directs > readers to look in the BOOK under specific topics, not within the INDEX? > I'm envisioning something like > > books. > listed on the second page of each theme; more recommendations, 210-215 > > Thanks again for your help. > > - Shana Milkie, an aspiring indexer > (e-mail: smilkie@mich.com) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:29:17 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: biographies and the Society of Indexers Kara Pekar wrote: <>A really good reference on the subject, which was recently recommended to >me, is "Indexing Biographies: And Other Stories of Human Lives" by Hazel K. >Bell. I borrowed a copy from another indexer, but your local library could >probably get it through interlibrary loan. This booklet is the first in the series of Occasional Papers published by the (British) Society of Indexers, which has recently brought out a second edition, substantially revised and extended. It is available from the Society's Sales Manager, Dorothy Frame, whose address is 26 Draycot Road, Wanstead, London E11 2NX, UK. Tel: (44) 181 530 2727; fax: (44) 181 989 3791. The cost of the publication is 10 pounds sterling for UK orders, 11 pounds overseas surface mail for Europe, 12 pounds airmail for USA, Australia, Canada, etc. If you wish to pay in US dollars, just double the sterling prices. Cheques payable to "Society of Indexers" should accompany the order. More details can be found in the relevant section of the Society's website: http://www.socind.demon.co.uk/Occpubs.htm While writing, I should mention that the Society is in the throes of moving offices, so that there may be a delay in dealing with enquiries. The new office address will be posted to Index-L within a few weeks. If anyone has an urgent enquiry in the meantime, please email the Secretary, Liza Weinkove, at: liza.weinkove@zen.co.uk But please note that orders cannot be dealt with until payment has been received. Best wishes, Christine ************************************************************ Christine Shuttleworth, Indexing & Editorial Services Flat 1, 25 St Stephen's Avenue London W12 8JB, UK e-mail: cshuttle@dircon.co.uk **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 11:09:45 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barry Rofman Organization: @Home Network Subject: Re: biographies and the Society of Indexers It's also available at Barnes and Noble.com with a several week delivey delay. RRofman Christine Shuttleworth wrote: > > Kara Pekar wrote: > > <>A really good reference on the subject, which was recently recommended to > >me, is "Indexing Biographies: And Other Stories of Human Lives" by Hazel K. > >Bell. > This booklet is the first in the series of Occasional Papers published by > the (British) Society of Indexers, which has recently brought out a second > edition, substantially revised and extended. It is available from the > Society's Sales Manager, Dorothy Frame, whose address is 26 Draycot Road, > Wanstead, London E11 2NX, UK. Tel: (44) 181 530 2727; fax: (44) 181 989 > 3791. > >> > e-mail: cshuttle@dircon.co.uk > **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 11:13:29 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: biographies In-Reply-To: <199901040504.XAA19800@mixcom.mixcom.com> Jan, I've indexed a fair number of biographies. I do include an entry for the subject of the book, but I keep that entry smallish by including only the very personal, typically items I think would look strange as main headings: appearance, birth, death, education, personality. If there are works, I include them under a special sub "works," but I always double-post them. All the other material in the book goes in as main headings: events, concepts/themes, other people, places, etc. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 13:21:44 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Key Subject: Technical Writer Needs Help I am a technical writer for a computer software company. Our software is used by libraries to automate cataloging, circulation, etc. The audience for our documentation is either librarians or information service people working behind the scenes in the library. Beginning this year, we will be reformatting/rewriting about 15 manuals in anticipation of putting them on the Web. Currently, these manuals do not contain indices. We are grappling with the various forms these documents could take. At this time, we think we will use a .pdf format for the documents and then place them on an index server. I'm wondering if there is anyone on this list that can point out the pros and cons of using an index server to help users find what they're looking for in a document. Does this alleviate the need for a human indexer? I'm assuming that a human indexer is always needed, but I also need to tell my boss why. If we decide to hire an indexer, should this person have library experience? How do I find out what is a reasonable rate? Do indexers charge by the topic, page, hour, or some other basis? I don't have any experience as an indexer and I'm hoping someone will give some guidance. If this is not the appropriate forum for these questions, I apologize that I have taken up bandwidth. Sharon Key sharon@dra.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 12:15:04 -0800 Reply-To: dmbrown@brown-inc.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: Technical Writer Needs Help Ms. Key-- I'd like to address a few of your comments and questions. You wrote: > > ... we will be reformatting/rewriting about 15 manuals in > anticipation of putting them on the Web. Currently, these manuals do > not contain indices. I'm sure you'll hear from a lot of folks on Index-L about the value of indexes. Rare indeed is the reference work that does not contain one! > We are grappling with the various forms these documents > could take. At this time, we think we will use a .pdf format for the > documents ... Straight HTML files are accessible to users on every platform; using every browser; with no plug-ins, add-ons, or helper applications. PDF files require the presence of Adobe Acrobat Reader. Unless you can control every user's software and hardware configuration, I highly recommend straight HTML--the simpler the better. Simplicity will also reduce development time by eliminating the need to create and maintain multiple versions. > ... and then place them on an index server. As far as I know, index servers are keyword-based search engines that target information at the file level. In other words, you can create search terms for files, but not for specific loctions within files. PDF allows you to specify an "open here" page for each PDF file, so you can create search terms for specific pages, but still only one for each file. By contrast, simple HTML files can contain as many named anchors as are needed. You can create multiple index entries for precise locations within HTML files. What's more, an index of HTML files--written in simple HTML--can be designed to look and work just like the familiar back-of-the-book indexes people already use. > ... the pros and cons of using an index server to help users find what > they're looking for in a document. Here are some URLs with information about search engine success: * Why Create an Index? http://www.html-indexer.com/WhyIndex.htm * Why On-Site Searching Stinks http://world.std.com/~uieweb/searchart.htm * Indexes: An Old Tool for a New Medium http://www.contentious.com/articles/1-8/guest1-8c.html * Does Your Web Site Need an Index? http://www.mediainfo.com/ephome/news/newshtm/stop/st103098.htm > Does this alleviate the need for a human indexer? Absolutely not. Search engines are good at finding files, but only if you tell them the filename or some string of characters within the file. It takes a human--preferably a professional indexer!--to design a complete and consistent list of index entries that are appropriate for a given document. --David ============================= David M. Brown - Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ============================= N O W A V A I L A B L E ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ Try HTML Indexer, the easiest way to create and maintain real back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:29:58 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John_Sullivan@STRATUS.COM Subject: Re: Technical Writer Needs Help David Brown wrote: <> I wouldn't dismiss PDF so quickly -- it has a number of advantages over HTML. It's relatively straightforward to provide the Reader for users who don't already have it. <> I'm not sure what you mean here. AFAIK, the index server will provide full-text search capabilities; searching on a word or phrase will bring the user directly to the relevant location in the PDF file. <> You can do the same thing with PDF. PDF conversion is relatively easy to do, and it preserves the look and feel of the originals. We currently provide our documentation on a customer-accessible web page in both HTML and PDF; I would say that PDFs account for over 90 percent of all file downloads from that site. There are many variables to consider here before deciding on the delivery mechanism; PDF shouldn't be ruled out as a serious candidate. John R. Sullivan Stratus Computer > -----Original Message----- > From: David M. Brown [SMTP:dmbrown@brown-inc.com] > Sent: Monday, January 04, 1999 3:15 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Technical Writer Needs Help > > Ms. Key-- > > I'd like to address a few of your comments and questions. > > You wrote: > > > > ... we will be reformatting/rewriting about 15 manuals in > > anticipation of putting them on the Web. Currently, these manuals do > > not contain indices. > > I'm sure you'll hear from a lot of folks on Index-L about the value of > indexes. Rare indeed is the reference work that does not contain one! > > > We are grappling with the various forms these documents > > could take. At this time, we think we will use a .pdf format for the > > documents ... > > Straight HTML files are accessible to users on every platform; using > every browser; with no plug-ins, add-ons, or helper applications. > > PDF files require the presence of Adobe Acrobat Reader. Unless you can > control every user's software and hardware configuration, I highly > recommend straight HTML--the simpler the better. Simplicity will also > reduce development time by eliminating the need to create and maintain > multiple versions. > > > ... and then place them on an index server. > > As far as I know, index servers are keyword-based search engines that > target information at the file level. In other words, you can create > search terms for files, but not for specific loctions within files. > > PDF allows you to specify an "open here" page for each PDF file, so you > can create search terms for specific pages, but still only one for each > file. > > By contrast, simple HTML files can contain as many named anchors as are > needed. You can create multiple index entries for precise locations > within HTML files. > > What's more, an index of HTML files--written in simple HTML--can be > designed to look and work just like the familiar back-of-the-book > indexes people already use. > > > ... the pros and cons of using an index server to help users find what > > they're looking for in a document. > > Here are some URLs with information about search engine success: > > * Why Create an Index? > http://www.html-indexer.com/WhyIndex.htm > > * Why On-Site Searching Stinks > http://world.std.com/~uieweb/searchart.htm > > * Indexes: An Old Tool for a New Medium > http://www.contentious.com/articles/1-8/guest1-8c.html > > * Does Your Web Site Need an Index? > http://www.mediainfo.com/ephome/news/newshtm/stop/st103098.htm > > > Does this alleviate the need for a human indexer? > > Absolutely not. Search engines are good at finding files, but only if > you tell them the filename or some string of characters within the file. > It takes a human--preferably a professional indexer!--to design a > complete and consistent list of index entries that are appropriate for a > given document. > > --David > > ============================= > David M. Brown - Brown Inc. > dmbrown@brown-inc.com > ============================= > > N O W A V A I L A B L E ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ > > Try HTML Indexer, the easiest way to create and maintain real > back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 14:52:53 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Kennedy Subject: Re: biographies -----Original Message----- From: Carol Roberts >I do include an entry for >the subject of the book, but I keep that entry smallish by including only >the very personal....If there are >works, I include them under a special sub "works," but I always double-post >them. All the other material in the book goes in as main headings.... I've indexed only a couple of biographies, but that's a perfect description of my approach, too. Carol Kennedy ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 13:33:11 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: Technical Writer Needs Help In-Reply-To: <199901041538.r929mm.5jc.37kbi17@mx9.mindspring.com> If you are using PageMaker or FrameMaker to generate your PDF files, you can index the files before creating the PDF by embedding index markers. Generate the index, then generate the PDF, and you will have an interactive index in each file. You also get the capacity for your users to be able to print out the file with all your fonts and designwork intact. If your index server can provide full text search as well, you then have all bases covered. Acrobat Reader also provides a "Find" command within each file. One consideration you should think about, if you choose to go with HTML, is who will maintain the index. If you are changing files, uploading new content a lot, pulling files, etc., you must also change the index, either by regenerating it or handtooling it. This can also be an issue with PDF files - you must regenerate the index, then regenerate the PDF when you make content changes. Take a look at RoboHTML - this might be a solution for you, and with their WebHelp add on, you can have a nice looking index to HTML pages... http://www.blue-sky.com/ Jan Wright At 03:29 PM 1/4/99 -0500, you wrote: >David Brown wrote: > > <you can > control every user's software and hardware configuration, I highly > recommend straight HTML--the simpler the better. Simplicity will >also > reduce development time by eliminating the need to create and >maintain > multiple versions.>> > >I wouldn't dismiss PDF so quickly -- it has a number of advantages over >HTML. It's relatively straightforward to provide the Reader for users who >don't already have it. > > <that > target information at the file level. In other words, you can >create > search terms for files, but not for specific loctions within files. > > PDF allows you to specify an "open here" page for each PDF file, so >you > can create search terms for specific pages, but still only one for >each > file.>> > >I'm not sure what you mean here. AFAIK, the index server will provide >full-text search capabilities; searching on a word or phrase will bring the >user directly to the relevant location in the PDF file. > > <be > designed to look and work just like the familiar back-of-the-book > indexes people already use.>> > >You can do the same thing with PDF. > >PDF conversion is relatively easy to do, and it preserves the look and feel >of the originals. We currently provide our documentation on a >customer-accessible web page in both HTML and PDF; I would say that PDFs >account for over 90 percent of all file downloads from that site. > >There are many variables to consider here before deciding on the delivery >mechanism; PDF shouldn't be ruled out as a serious candidate. > >John R. Sullivan >Stratus Computer > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: David M. Brown [SMTP:dmbrown@brown-inc.com] >> Sent: Monday, January 04, 1999 3:15 PM >> To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L >> Subject: Re: Technical Writer Needs Help >> >> Ms. Key-- >> >> I'd like to address a few of your comments and questions. >> >> You wrote: >> > >> > ... we will be reformatting/rewriting about 15 manuals in >> > anticipation of putting them on the Web. Currently, these manuals do >> > not contain indices. >> >> I'm sure you'll hear from a lot of folks on Index-L about the value of >> indexes. Rare indeed is the reference work that does not contain one! >> >> > We are grappling with the various forms these documents >> > could take. At this time, we think we will use a .pdf format for the >> > documents ... >> >> Straight HTML files are accessible to users on every platform; using >> every browser; with no plug-ins, add-ons, or helper applications. >> >> PDF files require the presence of Adobe Acrobat Reader. Unless you can >> control every user's software and hardware configuration, I highly >> recommend straight HTML--the simpler the better. Simplicity will also >> reduce development time by eliminating the need to create and maintain >> multiple versions. >> >> > ... and then place them on an index server. >> >> As far as I know, index servers are keyword-based search engines that >> target information at the file level. In other words, you can create >> search terms for files, but not for specific loctions within files. >> >> PDF allows you to specify an "open here" page for each PDF file, so you >> can create search terms for specific pages, but still only one for each >> file. >> >> By contrast, simple HTML files can contain as many named anchors as are >> needed. You can create multiple index entries for precise locations >> within HTML files. >> >> What's more, an index of HTML files--written in simple HTML--can be >> designed to look and work just like the familiar back-of-the-book >> indexes people already use. >> >> > ... the pros and cons of using an index server to help users find what >> > they're looking for in a document. >> >> Here are some URLs with information about search engine success: >> >> * Why Create an Index? >> http://www.html-indexer.com/WhyIndex.htm >> >> * Why On-Site Searching Stinks >> http://world.std.com/~uieweb/searchart.htm >> >> * Indexes: An Old Tool for a New Medium >> http://www.contentious.com/articles/1-8/guest1-8c.html >> >> * Does Your Web Site Need an Index? >> http://www.mediainfo.com/ephome/news/newshtm/stop/st103098.htm >> >> > Does this alleviate the need for a human indexer? >> >> Absolutely not. Search engines are good at finding files, but only if >> you tell them the filename or some string of characters within the file. >> It takes a human--preferably a professional indexer!--to design a >> complete and consistent list of index entries that are appropriate for a >> given document. >> >> --David >> >> ============================= >> David M. Brown - Brown Inc. >> dmbrown@brown-inc.com >> ============================= >> >> N O W A V A I L A B L E ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ >> >> Try HTML Indexer, the easiest way to create and maintain real >> back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. >> > +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Wright Information Indexing Services http://www.wrightinformation.com Jancw@wrightinformation.com +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:04:48 -0800 Reply-To: dmbrown@brown-inc.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: Technical Writer Needs Help Jan C. Wright wrote: > > One consideration you should think about, if you choose to go with > HTML, is who will maintain the index. If you are changing files, > uploading new content a lot, pulling files, etc., you must also > change the index, either by regenerating it or handtooling it. If you're delivering HTML files, you can use our product, HTML Indexer, to create and maintain the index easily. :-) Please see the URL below, then let me know if you have any questions. --David ============================= David M. Brown - Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ============================= N O W A V A I L A B L E ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ Try HTML Indexer, the easiest way to create and maintain real back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 18:40:27 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marcy Brown Subject: Writing DL To those of you with technical writing experience: I am interested in finding a _reputable_ distance learning program in technical writing. The program can be a certificate or degree program. Please email me if you are aware of any such coursework. Thanks much! Marcy Brown Delmont PA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 16:24:53 -0800 Reply-To: ljm2001@mindspring.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LJM Subject: Re: Writing DL Marcy Brown wrote: > > To those of you with technical writing experience: > > I am interested in finding a _reputable_ distance learning program in > technical writing. The program can be a certificate or degree program. > Please email me if you are aware of any such coursework. UC Berkeley has online extension courses, including technical writing. See http://learn.berkeley.edu/catalog/index.html Laura (I haven't got any technical writing experience, but UC Berkeley is certainly reputable :-) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 22:39:54 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Time4faith@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Writing DL Marcy, Whatever you do, do NOT take an online tech writing course with Dr. Davi d McMurrey. He offers it under his own name, through, Austin Community College and through another organization I think. I paid him upfront for the course and he never delivered on it. He gave me the absolute bare minimum and then completely ignored me. I sent e-mail after e-mail only to get no response. I politely asked for a partial refund which he agreed to but never gave me. I am now taking him to small claims court. Good luck in your search. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 23:28:10 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PDepri5514@AOL.COM Subject: Re: indexing law books In a message dated 1/3/99 3:48:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, Bonald@AOL.COM writes: << I took a 2-day beginning indexing course at EEI in Alexandria, VA. I just had the extremely good fortune of having as my instructor the indexer who became my mentor >> HI Bonnie; What is EEI? Do they offer correspondence courses? Take Care Patrick ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 23:41:17 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bonnie Taylor Subject: Re: indexing law books In a message dated 1/4/99 11:35:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, PDepri5514@AOL.COM writes: << What is EEI? Do they offer correspondence courses? >> EEI is a company in Alexandria, VA, that offers training in a variety of editorial and computer-related areas. Their workshops are usually a couple days in length and take place at their business. I really liked my course. It was enough to determine if I would be well suited for indexing and a good intro to indexing theory, basic use of Cindex, etc. But at the time I lived in northern VA, so it was also very convenient for me. Here is their web address: About EEI Training Bonnie Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 07:03:12 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen & Jordano Apolloni Subject: Re: Writing DL Marcy Brown wrote: > To those of you with technical writing experience: > > I am interested in finding a _reputable_ distance learning program in > technical writing. The program can be a certificate or degree program. > Please email me if you are aware of any such coursework. > Marcy, UCLA Extension Online offers a certificate in technical communication. I think nine courses are required for completion, and the courses look interesting. I took their technical writing course last year and found it well worth the cost. Look them up at http://www.OnlineLearning.net and good luck! Karen Apolloni tech writer & aspiring indexer kaja@provide.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:12:36 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Subject: 1.Moderator has returned; 2.change of address for archives Hi all, I am back...with visions of Africa dancing in my head 8-). We saw amazing things and met some wonderful people. I am also no longer on sabbatical and have donned my librarian hat once more...sigh! A big thank you to Mary Harper for minding the listserv in my absence. Also to Malinda Davis for taking care of misdirected inquiries. Knowing that both were watching things allowed me to forget about it. It looks like the list purred along quite nicely. The archives site address has changed. It is now http://www.indexpup.com/index-list/index.html. Ilana Kingsley will place a redirect at the former address. Charlotte Skuster index-l moderator ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:32:23 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Steve Chupack Subject: newspaper indexing and textbase management software Questions occasionally pop up here about newspaper indexing and related textbase indexing software. I hope the following is helpful to those interested in this topic. I am with Special Collections, at the University of Vermont library. One of my responsibilities is indexing the daily Burlington Free Press. [The index is available on the Internet through the Vermont Department of Libraries, or directly at http://myriad.middlebury.edu/bfprhd] I use B/Text Works, WIN 95/NT, version 2.2, by INMAGIC, Inc., Woburn, MA 1801-6357.(800-229-8398). Information about this product, and others, is available at www.inmagic.com This textbase management product meets our needs extremely well. The basics are easy to learn, and it has many features and functions that one can learn as needed. Its "form design" feature is particularly useful. It lets the user custom design with relative ease virtually any layout desired for the screen or printouts. Both the on-screen help features and user manual are excellent. The 2.2 version does not have a spell check function, but I have just learned that the upgrade currently being shipped does include spellcheck, a welcome addition. I have had little need to use the technical assistance services offered. However when I have called, it has been a real pleasure to discover that I did not get a busy signal, was not put on hold, received excellent help from competent and friendly folks. Please direct any questions about product cost and specifications to INMAGIC at the above references. Questions about newspaper indexing in general, or interest in becoming part of an informal special interest group may be sent to this list, or to me directly [schupack@zoo.uvm.edu] As a free-lancer I do back-of-the-book indexing and data/textbase management projects. I like CINDEX very much for regular indexing and INMAGIC for other projects. Steve Chupack Special Collections Bailey/Howe Library University of Vermont Burlington, VT 05405-0036 schupack@zoo.uvm.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:10:38 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Suellen Kasoff Subject: Re: 1.Moderator has returned; 2.change of address for archives Charlotte,I tried that and it said I couldn't access the page. Suellen On Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:12:36 -0500 Charlotte Skuster writes: >Hi all, > >I am back...with visions of Africa dancing in my head 8-). We saw >amazing things and met some wonderful people. I am also no longer on >sabbatical and have donned my librarian hat once more...sigh! > >A big thank you to Mary Harper for minding the listserv in my absence. >Also to Malinda Davis for taking care of misdirected inquiries. >Knowing >that both were watching things allowed me to forget about it. It >looks >like the list purred along quite nicely. > >The archives site address has changed. It is now >http://www.indexpup.com/index-list/index.html. Ilana Kingsley will >place a >redirect at the former address. > >Charlotte Skuster >index-l moderator > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:18:04 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marcy Brown Subject: Re: Writing DL Thanks for the heads up. Time4faith@AOL.COM wrote: > Marcy, > Whatever you do, do NOT take an online tech writing course with Dr. David > McMurrey. He offers it under his own name, through, Austin Community College > and through another organization I think. I paid him upfront for the course > and he never delivered on it. He gave me the absolute bare minimum and then > completely ignored me. I sent e-mail after e-mail only to get no response. I > politely asked for a partial refund which he agreed to but never gave me. I > am now taking him to small claims court. Good luck in your search. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:46:23 -0800 Reply-To: Bonny.McLaughlin@cgu.edu Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bonny McLaughlin Organization: cgs.edu Subject: ASI SoCal meeting Feb 6 Happy New Year! The American Society of Indexers Southern California Chapter invites you to... "Ask an Indexer" February 6th, 1999 11:30 to 2:30 Sun City Palm Desert, California This is the chance you've been looking for. Find out if a career in indexing is for you; find out how to make a success of it. Vicky Agee, Indexer Extraordinaire, is coming to Palm Desert from the wilds of Washington D.C. and Albuquerque, New Mexico, to answer any and all your questions about indexing as a vocation. You'll get to meet a live, prospering indexer and pump her for information. You'll have a chance to exchange business cards with indexers who may be able to refer work to you. Vicky is Director of Agee Indexing Services in Albuquerque, New Mexico. She has worked for public, university, and special libraries, and has had cataloging and indexing contracts with the Congressional Research Service, the National Agricultural Library, the National Library of Medicine, and the Smithsonian Institution. She has over 30 years of experience working in libraries and doing back-of-the-book, database and periodical indexing for corporate, trade and university publishers from coast-to-coast. Ms. Agee holds an MLS degree from UCLA and has presented workshops on indexing throughout the United States. She is an active member of the Special Libraries Association, the American Society of Indexers, the Westerners, the Southwest Writers Workshop, and the New Mexico Book Association. She has served on the ASI -- H.W. Wilson Award Committee to help improve the quality of indexing. In other words, her ability to answer your questions is unexcelled. Our luncheon meeting will be on a Saturday, providing you a chance to bring your family and stay overnight in this delightful winter resort at high season. Sample some of the area's most popular activities, such as hot air ballooning, golf, discount shopping, the Living Desert, Joshua Tree National Park, or the Tramway to the top of Mt. San Jacinto. Details will be sent you when you register. Included in your registration fee is a box luncheon, two hours or so of Q&A on everything you wanted to learn about indexing, and an 80-page booklet, written by indexers and sponsored by ASI, "Starting an Indexing Business." If you wish -- and we encourage it -- you can try your hand at indexing this booklet before the luncheon, and send your index by e-mail to our coordinator. She will assemble the contributions in time for anonymous review at the luncheon. This will give you a chance to see if the actual process of indexing is suited to your talents and temperament. (Indexing doesn't suit everyone, but for those of you who are computerized, hyperverbal, obsessively organized, and good at deadlines, it's a very congenial occupation.) The price of this event is $23 for ASI members ($30 for nonmembers), and includes: --- your box lunch and beverage; plus --- the galleys of the as-yet-unpublished, updated edition of "Starting an Indexing Business" (direct from the publisher, just as they would be if you were hired by them to index the book) so you can try the indexing exercise if you wish; plus --- a copy of the bound, revised edition fresh off the press. The published price of the booklet will be $25 to ASI members, $30 to nonmembers. You'll be getting it at quite a discount. We've priced this event 'way BELOW our cost! Our chapter policy is to create these educational opportunities for existing and potential ASI members, and to lose money on each one, making up the difference in volume. Your paid reservation must be received by January 25th, so put your check in the mail now. To reserve your chance to Ask an Indexer, print out the registration form below, and send the filled-out form and your check for $23 (members) or $30 (nonmembers), made out to ASI-SoCal, to: Anne Leach 78240 Bonanza Drive Palm Desert, CA 92211 e-mail: anneleach@aol.com Phone: 760-360-1432 Fax: 760-360-2109 **************************************************************************** REGISTRATION FORM FOR "ASK AN INDEXER" LUNCHEON FEBRUARY 6, 1999 11:30 TO 2:30 SUN CITY, PALM DESERT Name___________________________________________ Mailing Address ______________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ Phone____________________ e-mail ____________________________ Check enclosed for $23 ___ (ASI member) $30 ___ (nonmember) ____Yes, I wish to receive the booklet "Starting an Indexing Business" in advance of the meeting, and will try to prepare an index for it. ____Yes, I wish to receive information on motels and tourist activities in the Coachella Velley. Send this form and your check by January 25th (much sooner if you wish to attempt to index the booklet) to: Anne Leach 78240 Bonanza Drive Palm Desert, CA 92211 ***************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 21:35:22 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marcy Brown Subject: Re: Writing DL I like your tag line...mine should be "indexer and aspiring tech writer"! Although I'm relatively new to indexing, too... I just wanted to thank you for the info on the UCLA extension coursework. I'm compiling a list of universities that offer courses (people on the list have been very helpful), and will seriously evaluate all suggestions I get. Thanks again, and have a nice first week of 1999! Marcy Karen & Jordano Apolloni wrote: > Marcy Brown wrote: > > > To those of you with technical writing experience: > > > > I am interested in finding a _reputable_ distance learning program in > > technical writing. The program can be a certificate or degree program. > > Please email me if you are aware of any such coursework. > > > > Marcy, > > UCLA Extension Online offers a certificate in technical communication. I > think nine courses are required for completion, and the courses look > interesting. I took their technical writing course last year and found it > well worth the cost. Look them up at http://www.OnlineLearning.net and > good luck! > > Karen Apolloni > tech writer & aspiring indexer > kaja@provide.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 21:45:42 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PDepri5514@AOL.COM Subject: Re: 1.Moderator has returned; 2.change of address for archives Hi Charlotte I'm glad you're back from Africa. Tell us more about it. :-) Patrick. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:15:12 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DTDIGGS@AOL.COM Subject: Textbook indexing rates I've recently been cited a $2.00-per-page rate for indexing a textbook, revised edition. Since all my past indexing work has been scholarly press books, for which I would never work for under $3.00 per page, I'm wondering if $2.00 is a normal rate for college-level textbooks in a not-technical field (business, sociology, economics, etc.). It does seem that textbooks should be a bit simpler to index than academic books, since they are usually well divided and organized with subheads, lists, and the like, which you don't see in dense scholarly books, and include more illustrations and figures. So I guess my question -- for the experienced textbook indexers on the list -- is whether this is a respectable rate that other textbook publishers will also offer. Thanks for any feedback. Teddy Diggs DIGGS EDITORIAL SERVICES Little Rock, Arkansas ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:18:18 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Laura M. Gottlieb" Subject: Laptop help 5 January 1999 Thanks to all you Index-L-ers who gave me advice on purchasing a laptop, as my old one was (is) literally falling apart. Some of you asked to be informed about what the "collective wisdom" was on the subject, so here goes: I received only 4-5 replies (remember: this was over the Christmas vacation, probably not prime time to ask such a question), so there was hardly a consensus. But one person was a strong proponent of Compaq laptops, saying that in her experience, they were pretty much indestructable. Another explained that the particular Compaq model that I was considering which had an AMD K6 processor was similar but not identical to a Pentium. This same writer has reservations about Compaq's current support policies but assured me that Compaq support would be available in the future, if only for a price. Yet another writer urged me to get the most powerful, fastest machine I could afford, and pointed out that laptops are not as easy to upgrade as desk models. Thank you to all who wrote! I finally went for a slightly used, older model IBM laptop that I bought from an individual in the newspaper: an IBM Thinkpad 340ED with CD drive, external floppy disk drive, external 56K modem, Windows 95, and only Wordpad and Notepad for word processing. It looks as though the materials it's made from is pretty tough, the price was terrific, and I figure that IBM will be around for a while. Those of you who urged me to get lots of RAM will be disgusted to know that it is a mere Pentium, has 32 MG of RAM, and 2 gig HD. But it's more powerful than my 486, and really, the only things I do on my computer are email, CINDEX, and word processing. I don't play games or use graphics or run other programs on it. Now here is my dilemma. Simply because my old computer was falling apart, NOT because I was unhappy with my software, I now face having to upgrade all the software I use--which implies a fairly steep and unprofitable learning curve, as far as I'm concerned. I have to become adept at Windows 95, and probably get CINDEX for Windows and Word for Windows. I want to know whether it's going to be worth it to upgrade all these software programs. (Perhaps it's not worth it, but simply unavoidable.) And, if it's not worth it, do any of you have experience with working with CINDEX for DOS under Windows 95? CINDEX support says that installing real DOS on machine with Windows 95 or 98 will create problems in using CINDEX for DOS. Is it possible to use CINDEX for DOS on a Windows 95 machine *without * installing real DOS? You can tell that I am the farthest thing from a computer geek. My software needs are simple in the extreme, and I view software simply as a means to create indexes and write straightforward documents. As long as my software programs work effectively for me, I haven't been interested in the upgrades or new capacities. Unfortunately, as I've said, my need for new hardware is forcing me to upgrade to software that I will have to spend considerable time learning and which I'm not sure will be better or easier to use in the long run. Again, I'd be grateful for any advice or reassurance as I'm dragged reluctantly into a future which, probably for most of you, looks like the recent past!! Thanks in advance! --Laura Moss Gottlieb, Freelance Indexer ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:16:52 -0500 Reply-To: "Seth A. Maislin" Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Seth A. Maislin" Subject: Re: Textbook indexing rates To be as general as possible, a fair per-page rate depends only on how fast you can reasonable be expected to work. If you can crank out 30 pages an hour without sacrificing index quality, then you'd be making a good salary. On the other hand, "average" per-page indexing speeds are 5 to 10 pages an hour. (Take "average" with a grain of salt, of course, since there are many subjects, styles, editions, and layouts to worry about.) At that pace, the best you can do at $2 per page is $20/hr., and I think that's low for indexing. Textbooks are easier because they are (supposedly) more obviously structured than other kinds of books, but the quality is much more obvious. Textbooks are reference books, and their indexes should be more clearly comprehensive and understandable. Also, the terminology in a textbook is often stricter, which poses its own challenges. I have found that for any book, there are arguments in favor both lower and higher rates. Books for beginners are straightforward, but the audiences are less likely to know the vocabulary. Large books might get repetitive and have a better structure, but they are harder to manage. Books in the sciences might have complicated concepts to understand, but the vocabulary control is often quite strict. Books with lots of pictures mean less text to index, but illustrations are difficult to index. With so much give-and-take, the best solution to determining a fair rate is to consider the value of your own time. Then if you have to, divide that by your book-specific indexing speed, and calculate a fair per-page rate. - Seth Seth Maislin Focus Information Services smaislin@world.std.com -----Original Message----- From: DTDIGGS@AOL.COM I've recently been cited a $2.00-per-page rate for indexing a textbook, revised edition. Since all my past indexing work has been scholarly press books, for which I would never work for under $3.00 per page, I'm wondering if $2.00 is a normal rate for college-level textbooks in a not-technical field (business, sociology, economics, etc.). ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:46:07 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: francine cronshaw Subject: Re: Textbook indexing rates Seth Maislin raises excellent points with regard to setting rates. Any newcomer would be well advised to consider his formula. For your information, I currently get $3.50 per page for college-level textbooks. Foreign language (Spanish) textbooks naturally are higher. Even for someone starting out, $2.00 a page seems very low. A rate like $2.75 or $3.00 would seem more reasonable (and would come closer to Seth's notions as well). Best, Francine Cronshaw East Mountain Editing Services Tijeras, New Mexico ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 11:04:40 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "S. Greenhouse" Subject: Job listing (forwarded message) ********NOTE: DO NOT HIT REPLY BUTTON TO ANSWER AD! ****** Please read carefully and then call the phone number listed in body of message! INDEXER NEEDED IMMEDIATELY Full time/part time/date-limited position available in downtown DC Good pay/flexible hours/great working environment MLS or candidate for MLS Previous experience necessary Please call Carolyn at 703-979-4473 and leave a message if interested (Came from C. Kendrick and Associates, Ltd.) Forwarded posting submitted by: S. Greenhouse ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 11:57:59 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Hughes Subject: Re: Laptop help In a message dated 99-01-06 09:59:14 EST, you write: << Is it possible to use CINDEX for DOS on a Windows 95 machine *without * installing real DOS? >> I didn't have any problems when I was using CINDEX for DOS on my Windows 95 machine. There was a form of MS-DOS installed anyway. Maybe you have it on your machine too. I think it always ran with Win95 but is missing in Win98.. but more computer literate folks may have other info. Back then, I installed CINDEX as the instructions say. Then used the Win95 Run command (a couple of notches up from the Start button) and entered c:\cindex\cindex.exe That would start CINDEX from inside Win95. On the other hand, to run CINDEX you could always close Win95 and run the computer in DOS then you would go to the CINDEX directory and type CINDEX like in the real old days. My printer liked that better, but I preferred to work through WIN95 most of the time. Sharon ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:54:19 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Laptop help At 08:18 AM 1/6/1999 -0600, Laura M. Gottlieb wrote: > Now here is my dilemma. Simply because my old computer was falling >apart, NOT because I was unhappy with my software, I now face having to >upgrade all the software I use--which implies a fairly steep and >unprofitable learning curve, as far as I'm concerned. I have to become adept >at Windows 95, and probably get CINDEX for Windows and Word for Windows. I >want to know whether it's going to be worth it to upgrade >all these software programs. (Perhaps it's not worth it, but simply >unavoidable.) > And, if it's not worth it, do any of you have experience with working >with CINDEX for DOS under Windows 95? CINDEX support says that installing >real DOS on machine with Windows 95 or 98 will create problems in using >CINDEX for DOS. Is it possible to use CINDEX for DOS on a Windows 95 machine >*without * installing real DOS? I can't swear how CINDEX for DOS works under Windows 95, but I've been using Macrex for DOS in that situation for about three years and it performs perfectly. I also kept all my "old" DOS software for a long time after upgrading, and it all worked fine. This included WordPerfect 6.0, my very old invoicing program from 1989, a number of DOS games (some of which I still enjoy), and so on. Apparently, whatever DOS underlies W95 seems to do what it's supposed to do. You can create a DOS window to operate these programs and make it automatically appear when you double-click on the program icon, or you can reboot and have the machine come back on in DOS mode. I only upgraded gradually, when I felt I really wanted the more advanced/better version of a particular program...and NOT because something didn't work. I hope you'll find the process just as painless. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:54:21 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Textbook indexing rates At 11:15 PM 1/5/1999 EST, DTDIGGS@AOL.COM wrote: >I've recently been cited a $2.00-per-page rate for indexing a textbook, >revised edition. Since all my past indexing work has been scholarly press >books, for which I would never work for under $3.00 per page, I'm wondering if >$2.00 is a normal rate for college-level textbooks in a not-technical field >(business, sociology, economics, etc.). No, it's not...particularly from the larger presses or packagers. I normally start at $3-$3.50 and go up from there, and I've been indexing textbooks for over 20 years. You're obviously an experienced indexer; I'd never take $2 a page for a regular job at this point. (By "regular," I mean non-charitable, non-friend, and so on.) =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:06:40 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli@AOL.COM Subject: using databases for large indexing project I have just been approached about indexing a 4,000-entry bibliography. I would be interested in hearing from anyone who might have transformed an RTF file into database readable format for manipulation, so that entries do not have to be rekeyed. Thanks. Fred Leise Between the Lines Indexing and Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:13:07 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Laptop help In-Reply-To: <199901061201.r975mh.1o6.37kbi16@mx8.mindspring.com> At 08:54 AM 1/6/99 -0800, you wrote: > >I can't swear how CINDEX for DOS works under Windows 95 It works just fine. I understand that at some future release, Windows will no longer run DOS programs, but I hope that's a long way off, 'cause you'll have to pry my DOS CINDEX from my cold gray fingers before I'll give it up. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:11:04 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Laptop help At 11:57 AM 1/6/1999 EST, Sharon Hughes wrote: > Back then, I installed CINDEX as the instructions say. Then used the Win95 >Run command (a couple of notches up from the Start button) and entered >c:\cindex\cindex.exe That would start CINDEX from inside Win95. If you don't want to bother with clicking on RUN and typing the command line, you can make an icon for the program and essentially create a macro that does all that for you. Then just double-click on the icon when you want to run CINDEX, and it should pop right up. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:48:51 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Toni Williams TPG/SG Subject: Indexing Biographies This topic was discussed a week or so ago and one of the sub-topics covered was subentries under the principle's name, I am reading a biography of Stephen Crane and found entries under his name in the index compiled as follows: First, general or expected entries; i.e., birth, education, family, women, etc. Second, "Chronology of Adult Life", listed year by year. Third, "Poetry", each entry being the first line of a poem of his mentioned in the book Is this common? I don't remember seeing it before and found it interesting. ToniW towilliams@procyongroup.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:49:08 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Textbook indexing rates << I've recently been cited a $2.00-per-page rate for indexing a textbook, revised edition. Since all my past indexing work has been scholarly press books, for which I would never work for under $3.00 per page, I'm wondering if $2.00 is a normal rate for college-level textbooks in a not-technical field (business, sociology, economics, etc.). >> This is on the low side in my experience; I index textbooks for a number of publishers and have charged them between $3.00 and $3.75 for quite a few years. I do know that there are publishers out there paying less, but I won't work for them. It's true that textbooks are quite a bit easier conceptually than scholarly books (one reason I try to keep a balance among my clients!) but when you start adding name indexes, glossaries and so on the time can really add up. If the book you're being offered is fairly short (for a textbook, by which I mean around 400 pages), needs no name index, is well organized and not too dense, it wouldn't kill you to do it for $2.00 a page. (Textbooks that meet all of these criteria are rare!) But make sure you're clear that any books that are different in any of the above ways will raise the price substantially. Good luck! Do Mi Stauber ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 13:17:33 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Paul Lightfoot Subject: Re: Cambodian names There is a book called: _Names of Persons: National Usages for Entry in Catalogues._ UBCIM Publications. New Series Vol. 16 which should answer your question. I don't have a copy yet myself but have ordered one from t= he Society of Indexers. = Sue ------------------------------------------------------------- Sue Lightfoot =AD Indexing, Proofreading Tremorva, Talland Hill, Polperro, Cornwall PL13 2RZ, England Tel/Fax: 01503 273006 Email: SLightfoot@compuserve.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 13:34:03 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pamela Venneman Subject: accounting software Good Afternoon, I have just discovered that my accounting software is not y2k compliant. Any recommendations for the program that you use? Thanks, Pamela Venneman Lighthouse Indexing Services ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:11:30 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diane Worden Subject: Re: using databases for large indexing project In a message dated 99-01-06 12:33:53 EST, Fred Leise wrote: << I would be interested in hearing from anyone who might have transformed an RTF file into database readable format for manipulation, so that entries do not have to be rekeyed. >> If anyone has done this, please reply to Index-L instead of a private communication. I too am facing this prospect. Diane in Kazoo ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:16:29 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Hughes Subject: Re: using databases for large indexing project Hi Fred, I've done this before. My method might not be the best but it works. I go through EXCEL. CINDEX looks for a dat file with repetitive entries so the format should look like this. Dogs, collies, short-haired Dogs, collies, long-haired Dogs, boxers, brindle Dogs, boxers, tan Dogs, boxers, white. Not beautiful but you get the idea. Your rtf file will have one header Dogs Collies short-haired long-haired Boxers brindle tan white Save it as a tab delimited file then with line breaks. Pull this into EXCEL then use the EXCEL tools to duplicate the headers and subheads as necessary without retyping. Then save it as a comma delimited file with an dat extension and import it into CINDEX. I can't wait to hear if there are other methods out there.. Good question. Sharon ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:28:35 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Weiss Subject: Thesaurus construction software The publisher I work for is considering purchasing thesaurus construction software. I have read several articles on the Internet about this type of software, and I've also looked at some demo versions of one of the products. I'd like to hear from any of you who have had some experience with these products. What were the strengths and weaknesses of the product you have used. Feel free to respond on- or off-list. Thanks. Sue Weiss Tax Analysts Arlington, VA e-mail: sweiss@tax.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 11:42:03 -0800 Reply-To: jlee@eskimo.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeri Lee Subject: Re: accounting software What software are you using? Pamela Venneman wrote: > Good Afternoon, > I have just discovered that my accounting software is not y2k compliant. Any > recommendations for the program that you use? > Thanks, > Pamela Venneman > Lighthouse Indexing Services ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:05:51 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: using databases for large indexing project On 1/6/1999 1:11 PM Diane Worden wrote: >In a message dated 99-01-06 12:33:53 EST, Fred Leise wrote: ><< I would > be interested in hearing from anyone who might have transformed an RTF file > into database readable format for manipulation, so that entries do not have >to > be rekeyed. >> > >If anyone has done this, please reply to Index-L instead of a private >communication. I too am facing this prospect. > Diane in Kazoo > Indexing Research does conversions, e.g., from indexes to word processor files and vice versa. You might wish to get in touch with them to see if they would take on your conversion(s). A while back they converted a word processing file to a Cindex file for me and I was very pleased with the result. Craig Brown ===================================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing http://www/i1.net/~lastword (314)352-9094 fax: (314)481-9254 ===================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 15:29:41 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cheryl Landes Subject: Re: Laptop help DOS is already bundled into Windows 95, so all you need to do to access it is: 1. Click the Start button. The Start menu will appear. 2. From the Start menu, select Programs. A submenu will appear. 3. From the submenu, select MS-DOS Prompt. After that, DOS will open in a window. Maximize the window, and from there you can work like you always have in DOS. When you're finished working in DOS and you want to return to Windows, simply type "exit" (no quotes) at the DOS prompt, and then press return. I run my DOS version of Macrex this way and haven't had any problems. I always use this version unless I have to do embedded indexing or when a client wants indexes on Excel spreadsheets. Let me know if you have any other questions. Cheryl Landes (the devoted Compaq user) Tabby Cat Communications In a message dated 1/6/99, 8:59:09 AM, INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU writes: <> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:24:18 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: using databases for large indexing project In-Reply-To: <199901061707.JAA02426@nccn.net> At 12:06 PM 1/6/99 EST, Fred Leise wrote: >I have just been approached about indexing a 4,000-entry bibliography. I would >be interested in hearing from anyone who might have transformed an RTF file >into database readable format for manipulation, so that entries do not have to >be rekeyed. Thanks. Hello Fred, Diane, et al.: This past fall I scanned, OCRed, and, using some fairly intricate macros in WordPerfect 5.1, transformed many end-of-chapter bibliographies including multi-author works into entries for a big name index for a multivolume series. (I landed the project I had in mind when I asked my fellow listers about charging for name indexes -- thanks again to everyone who responded.) I enjoyed creating my own tools for this project and would be glad to speak with you about the process -- and would also be delighted to put these tools to more use doing other such projects myself, so please call or write me if you think you might like to work together in some way on the projects you're considering. Michael ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 16:47:52 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: EMickiT@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Laptop help In a message dated 99-01-06 09:59:14 EST, you write: << ...do any of you have experience with working with CINDEX for DOS under Windows 95?>> I have 32 MB of Ram, like you, and Cindex for DOS runs beautifully on it. << As long as my software programs work effectively for me, I haven't been interested in the upgrades or new capacities. Unfortunately, as I've said, my need for new hardware is forcing me to upgrade to software that I will have to spend considerable time learning and which I'm not sure will be better or easier to use in the long run. >> I've always been in favor of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." It may not be such a hassle learning the new software, as your needs are simple. If you have any problems with formatting indexes using your new word- processor, I'm sure the list will be happy to help. One advantage to Word for Windows 95 is that you can produce a file in Mac format. Maybe the older versions could, too. I used WordPerfect before I got Windows 95, so I don't know. Now I have both office suites installed and use both. I find it handy, as I sometimes work for editors who have Word for Mac and sometimes for those who have WordPerfect. It is not essential, though. (I sometimes do things other than indexing, where it does matter.) But WordPerfect is pretty cheap, and has some features I like. Congrats on the new computer and have fun with it. Micki ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 16:47:53 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: EMickiT@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Laptop help: chat In a message dated 99-01-06 12:35:17 EST, Richard Evans writes: << you'll have to pry my DOS CINDEX from my cold gray fingers before I'll give it up. >> You'll have company! Micki ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 16:50:35 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marlene London Subject: Re: Hazel Bell's book Help! I inadvertently erased the message about how to order Hazel Bell's book (or pamphlet?) on indexing biographies. Would someone kindly forward that information? Marlene London Profindex@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 17:49:10 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: using databases for large indexing project << I would be interested in hearing from anyone who might have transformed an RTF file into database readable format for manipulation, so that entries do not have to be rekeyed. >> Hi Fred--I don't know about databases--are you wanting to index using a database program? But I've dumped a huge RTF file into Macrex with great success (and some tweaking). You can probably do the same with Cindex. Pardon me if I'm addressing some different situation than you've got! Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 22:55:11 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: Hazel Bell's book Marlene wrote: A really good reference on the subject, which was recently recommended to >me, is "Indexing Biographies: And Other Stories of Human Lives" by Hazel K. >Bell. I borrowed a copy from another indexer, but your local library could >probably get it through interlibrary loan. This booklet is the first in the series of Occasional Papers published by the (British) Society of Indexers, which has recently brought out a second edition, substantially revised and extended. It is available from the Society's Sales Manager, Dorothy Frame, whose address is 26 Draycot Road, Wanstead, London E11 2NX, UK. Tel: (44) 181 530 2727; fax: (44) 181 989 3791. The cost of the publication is 10 pounds sterling for UK orders, 11 pounds overseas surface mail for Europe, 12 pounds airmail for USA, Australia, Canada, etc. If you wish to pay in US dollars, just double the sterling prices. Cheques payable to "Society of Indexers" should accompany the order. More details can be found in the relevant section of the Society's website: http://www.socind.demon.co.uk/Occpubs.htm While writing, I should mention that the Society is in the throes of moving offices, so that there may be a delay in dealing with enquiries. The new office address will be posted to Index-L within a few weeks. If anyone has an urgent enquiry in the meantime, please email the Secretary, Liza Weinkove, at: liza.weinkove@zen.co.uk But please note that orders cannot be dealt with until payment has been received. Best wishes, Christine ************************************************************ Christine Shuttleworth, Indexing & Editorial Services Flat 1, 25 St Stephen's Avenue London W12 8JB, UK e-mail: cshuttle@dircon.co.uk **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 18:11:58 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Laptop help In-Reply-To: <199901061656.r97n0k.d7r.37kbi17@mx9.mindspring.com> At 03:29 PM 1/6/99 -0500, you wrote: >DOS is already bundled into Windows 95, so all you need to do to access it is: >1. Click the Start button. The Start menu will appear. >2. From the Start menu, select Programs. A submenu will appear. >3. From the submenu, select MS-DOS Prompt. > >After that, DOS will open in a window. Maximize the window, and from there you >can work like you always have in DOS. I'm just curious, but why would you want to run from a DOS prompt when you can run CINDEX from your Start menu, from a desktop icon, or by clicking on a CINDEX file, the same as you would for any Windows program? Dick ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:01:35 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Forrest Subject: vertical file indexing Hello Everyone, I have been approached to index a vertical file of family history ephemera (held in a public library) and have absolutely no idea as to how I should charge for this. I would appreciate any ideas and experiences you have. I have yet to see the collection so cannot give any more detail than that above. Also could anyone suggest a thesaurus which would help in assigning keywords? Many thanks Julie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 19:13:52 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lillian Ashworth Subject: Names, listings of Hi all - Tomorrow I begin an index for a book consisting of biographies of 500 women (in 430 pages). As currently planned, part of the index will consist of general subject headings (artists, athletes, authors/writers, educators, entrepreneurs, musicians, etc.) with listings of several names under each general subject heading. Is there a consensus on how these names should be listed? The question has come up whether, as subheads, these names should be formatted as "Jane Doe, 115-18" or "Doe, Jane, 115-18." The alpha sort would be on the last name whichever format is used. My "gut" feeling is to go with "first name last name" (Jane Doe) listings as subheads, but I'm open to suggestions. Has anyone else dealt with this type of listing? If so, what has your experience been? Obviously, I will be checking with my editor on this but I'm curious to know what the list's collective wisdom might be. Thank you in advance - Lillian Ashworth ashworth@pullman.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 15:35:56 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Tempting Tear-Outs Subject: >>>>>> L@@K! Amazing Free Offer!!! Unbelievable, but True! <<<<<<< 22 To be removed from our mailing list, please send email to: temptingtearouts@1stconnect.com with the subject line of "remove." FOR MORE INFO: please "cut out" the below form on the "cut" lines shown, and fax it, for the fastest reply to: 1-718-227-9125 (this is a fax # in the USA) or send via smail (first class mail or airmail) to: Tempting Tear-Outs Att. Free-catalogue-by-email Dept 3835 Richmond Ave. Suite #200 Staten Island NY 10312-3828 USA SORRY, BUT.... our software is not set up to accept the below form via return email; WE CAN ONLY acknowledge forms sent in via fax or smail. --> IMPORTANT complete directions, to ensure that you get a reply, and more info follow, below the reply form and the catalogue options. *------------cut here/begin-------------------------------------------* Name (First Middle Last): Internet email address: Smail home address: City-State-Zip: Country: Work Tel. #: Work Fax #: Home Tel. #: Home Fax #: Cellular (Mobile) Tel. #: Beeper (Pager) Tel. #: How did you hear about us (name of person/company who referred you or the area of the internet that you saw us mentioned in): Referred by: Tempting Tear-Outs 010699-ls22-lafoubt-la Name of USA mags you currently get on the newsstand or in the store: Name of USA mags you currently get on a subscription basis, through the mail: Name of USA mags you would like price quotes on when we call you: Catalogue version desired (list number of choice below): *------------cut here/end--------------------------------------------* CATALOGUE VERSION CHOICES: 1. This version can be read by everyone, no matter what type of computer you use, or what type of software you use. It is a simple format, with just our entire catalogue pasted into the body of a single email message, 316K in size. If you use pine or elm on a unix system or an advanced software version such as Eudora Pro 3.0 or later, you will most likely receive it as a single email message. However, if your software limits incoming email messages to a certain size, say 32K or so, then your software will split it into multiple email message parts. Whether you receive it as a single email message or multiple part email messages, you can easily paste it into one whole text document with your word processor, in about 10 minutes or so. 2. For more advanced computer users: attached plain ascii text file ~316K - you must know how to download an attached text file and then be able to locate it on your hard drive or system home directory; it can then be opened with any pc or mac word processing software. If in doubt, don't ask for this version. This isn't for internet *newbies.* Better to order option 1 and spend a few minutes pasting them into one whole text document with your word processor, than to waste hours trying to figure how to deal with this option. This version is great for doing keyword searches and jumping around within the catalogue with your word processing software, if your normal email reading software doesn't allow this. VERY IMPORTANT DIRECTIONS TO ENSURE THAT YOU GET A REPLY: 1. you must call from an "unblocked number," ie. one that is not blocked from caller id. We are very sorry for this requirement, but our fax software requires this before it allows an incoming fax call to connect. If you have a blocked number, you must first unblock it. In most cases this means dialing *82 from a touch-tone phone (or 1182 from a rotary phone) before you dial 1-718-227-9125. NOTE: If you are not sure if your number is blocked, just try dialing our fax # normally. If you don't get a recording telling you your number is blocked, your number has been transmitted and you may press the start button on your fax when you hear the fax tone from our fax. 2. no reply forms can be accepted by email....only via fax or smail. 3. your form must be typewritten or printed out on your computer printer before you fax it; sorry, but *no* handwritten forms will be acknowledged. If you can't find someone with a typewriter or a computer printer, we apologize for not being able to reply to you. 4. faxes with cover pages will be rejected. You must send *only* the reply form. 5. forms not *completely* filled in will not be acknowledged. 6. you will receive a reply within 1 business day directly from the company making the offer via email. Therefore you must have an email address. If you read this message, then you must have an email address, or access to one, at least. :-) 7. your fax must not exceed 1 page in length. Faxes of 2 or more pages will be sensed, then auto-terminated and deleted. Your fax goes directly onto our 5.0 gigabyte hard drive and we must limit all incoming faxes to 1 page. 8. all faxes must begin with: *------------cut here/begin-------------------------------------------* and must end with: *------------cut here/end--------------------------------------------* 9. Any fax not conforming to this format will be sensed by our software, then auto-terminated and deleted from the hard drive, before any human ever gets to see it. 10. The type on your fax must be dark and legible. If in doubt, please print it out darker before faxing it in. If we can't read it, we can't reply to you or send you our FREE catalogue. :-( 11. If this all seems too complicated for faxing, just do it the old fashioned way via smail!!! WHO WE ARE: Tempting Tear-Outs is an advertising company that brings potential new customers to the companies they advertise for. MORE ABOUT THE COMPANY MAKING THE FREE OFFER: The company making the offer is a magazine subscription agency based in the USA. They have over 1,100 popular USA titles available to be shipped to *any* country, including of course, to anywhere in the USA! They offer a FREE 1 yr. subscription to your choice of over 200 of the titles in their catalogue to any new customer using them for the first time. The dollar value of the freebies, based on the subscription prices directly from the publishers, ranges from $6.97 all the way up to $50.00! For new customers in the USA, there is no charge for FPH (foreign postage & handling), so the freebie is 100% free! For new customers living overseas, the only charge on the freebie would be for the FPH (foreign postage & handling). Their president has been in the magazine subscription business since 1973 and they are very customer-service oriented. They will even help you with address changes on your magazines, even if you move from one country to another country. They have thousands of happy customers in over 59 countries. Their price guarantee is very simple: they guarantee that their subscription prices are the lowest available and they will BEAT any legitimate, verifiable offer before you pay them or match it afterwards, by refunding you the difference in price PLUS the cost of the postage stamp you would use sending in the special offer to them, even 6 months after you pay them, as long as it was current at the time of your offer. Does that sound fair? Wouldn't it be great if everything you bought came with that price guarantee? Sometimes they are less than half of the next best deal out there, sometimes just a little cheaper, but always you get the lowest rates without having to shop around. With 1,100+ titles on their list, they would like to think that they have also the best selection around! Within the USA, for their USA customers, they are cheaper than all their competitors and even the publishers themselves. This is their price guarantee. The 1 yr. freebie that you get with your first order is completely free! Overseas, (even after you factor in the cost of the FPH (foreign postage & handling) and the conversion from USA Dollars to your currency), on the average, they are generally around one-fourth to one-half of what the newsstands overseas charge locally for USA magazines. On some titles they are as little as one-tenth of what the newsstands charge. They are also the cheapest subscription source for delivery overseas, including directly from the publishers themselves! Some publishers don't even offer subscriptions overseas.........but overseas subscriptions are this company's specialty! They feel that magazines should not be a luxury overseas. In the USA, people buy magazines and then toss them after reading them for just a few minutes or hours. They are so cheap in the USA! Well, this company would like to make it the same way for their overseas customers. They are also cheaper than all their competitors in the USA and overseas, including the publishers themselves! It is also *highly unlikely* you will find any of their USA competitors calling you overseas, in order to offer that personal touch, just to sell you a couple of magazines! But that is what this company specializes in and loves doing! Around one-half their business comes from overseas, so they are very patient with new customers who only speak limited English as a 2nd language. Subscription prices quoted for overseas consist of the subscription price, plus the FPH. You add the two together and that is your total cost. The exception is the 1 yr. freebie you get with your first order. On that title, you pay *only* the FPH for the 1 yr. term. Their prices are so cheap because when you deal with them, you cut-out all the middlemen. HERE IS HOW YOU CAN GET MORE INFO AND GET STARTED WITH THEM: Simply fax or smail back to us the reply form listed at the top of this message. We will then forward your form on to the subscription agency. They will then email their "big and juicy" catalogue to you, in whichever of the two formats you chose. The catalogue is FREE and makes for hours of fascinating reading, on its own. It includes the complete list of freebies, a complete list of all the titles they sell, as well as detailed descriptions on most of the titles, along with lists of titles by category of interest and their terms of sale. They will then give you a friendly, no-pressure, no obligation, 5-minute call to go over how they work and to answer any questions that you might have, as well as give you up-to-the minute price quotes on any titles you might be considering. They will call you in whatever country you live in, taking the time difference into account. As they like to emphasize the personal touch they give to each new customer, all first-time orders can only be done via phone, so they can answer all your questions completely and personally. Once you have placed your first order via phone, you will be able to place future orders and make inquiries on your account, get price quotes, etc., all via email, if that is most convenient for you. Within the USA, they accept payment via check over the phone, Mastercard, Visa, American Express, Diner's Club and Carte Blanche. Overseas, they accept Mastercard, Visa, American Express, Diner's Club and Carte Blanche, even if your credit card is a local one in local currency (that most merchants in the USA would not normally be willing to accept). That's our introduction of our client that we represent. We hope that we have piqued your interest and that you will take the next step to get their free catalogue! Thank you for your time and interest. -- Tempting Tear-Outs. For more info on advertising rates, please write us on your company letterhead, w/business card, via smail to: Tempting Tear-Outs, 3835 Richmond Ave. Suite #200, Staten Island NY 10312-3828, USA. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 21:34:33 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Excruciating prose... This was posted on FREELANCE-L and I just *had* to share it... Be glad you don't have to do the conceptual indexing on some of the writing displayed at this site! Especially the "tour de force" from "D.G. Leahy, writing in 'Foundation: Matter the Body Itself'." Incredible stuff... >It's comforting to know, as I deal with writing that is sometimes just a >little less than graceful, that it could be much worse. For this year's >winners of an annual bad-writing contest sponsored by the journal >Philosophy and Literature: > >http://www.cybereditions.com/aldaily/bwc.htm Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net ICQ #15741870 http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ If a man has any connection with Texas, Harvard, or the U.S. Marine Corps, he'll let you know it in the first five minutes of conversation. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 20:50:19 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: >>>>>> L@@K! Amazing Free Offer!!! Unbelievable, but True! <<<<<<< 22 remove Tempting Tear-Outs wrote: > To be removed from our mailing list, please send email to: > temptingtearouts@1stconnect.com with the subject line of "remove." > > FOR MORE INFO: please "cut out" the below form on the "cut" lines shown, > and fax it, for the fastest reply to: 1-718-227-9125 (this > is a fax # in the USA) > > or send via smail (first class mail or airmail) to: > Tempting Tear-Outs > Att. Free-catalogue-by-email Dept > 3835 Richmond Ave. Suite #200 > Staten Island NY 10312-3828 > USA > > SORRY, BUT.... our software is not set up to accept the below form via > return email; WE CAN ONLY acknowledge forms sent in via fax or smail. > > --> IMPORTANT complete directions, to ensure that you get a reply, and more > info follow, below the reply form and the catalogue options. > > *------------cut here/begin-------------------------------------------* > > Name (First Middle Last): > Internet email address: > Smail home address: > City-State-Zip: > Country: > Work Tel. #: > Work Fax #: > Home Tel. #: > Home Fax #: > Cellular (Mobile) Tel. #: > Beeper (Pager) Tel. #: > > How did you hear about us (name of person/company who referred you or the > area of > the internet that you saw us mentioned in): Referred by: Tempting > Tear-Outs > 010699-ls22-lafoubt-la > > Name of USA mags you currently get on the newsstand or in the store: > > Name of USA mags you currently get on a subscription basis, through the mail: > > Name of USA mags you would like price quotes on when we call you: > > Catalogue version desired (list number of choice below): > > *------------cut here/end--------------------------------------------* > > CATALOGUE VERSION CHOICES: > > 1. This version can be read by everyone, no matter what type of > computer you use, or what type of software you use. It is a simple > format, with just our entire catalogue pasted into the body of a > single email message, 316K in size. If you use pine or elm on a unix > system or an advanced software version such as Eudora Pro 3.0 or > later, you will most likely receive it as a single email message. > However, if your software limits incoming email messages to a > certain size, say 32K or so, then your software will split it into > multiple email message parts. Whether you receive it as a single > email message or multiple part email messages, you can easily > paste it into one whole text document with your word processor, in > about 10 minutes or so. > 2. For more advanced computer users: attached plain ascii text file > ~316K - you must know how to download an attached text file and > then be able to locate it on your hard drive or system home > directory; it can then be opened with any pc or mac word processing > software. If in doubt, don't ask for this version. This isn't for > internet *newbies.* Better to order option 1 and spend a few minutes > pasting them into one whole text document with your word processor, > than to waste hours trying to figure how to deal with this option. > This version is great for doing keyword searches and jumping around > within the catalogue with your word processing software, if your > normal email reading software doesn't allow this. > > VERY IMPORTANT DIRECTIONS TO ENSURE THAT YOU GET A REPLY: > > 1. you must call from an "unblocked number," ie. one that is not blocked > from caller id. We are very sorry for this requirement, but our fax > software requires this before it allows an incoming fax call to connect. > If you have a blocked number, you must first unblock it. In most cases > this means dialing *82 from a touch-tone phone (or 1182 from a rotary > phone) before you dial 1-718-227-9125. NOTE: If you are not sure if > your number is blocked, just try dialing our fax # normally. If you don't > get a recording telling you your number is blocked, your number has been > transmitted and you may press the start button on your fax when you hear > the fax tone from our fax. > 2. no reply forms can be accepted by email....only via fax or smail. > 3. your form must be typewritten or printed out on your computer printer > before you fax it; sorry, but *no* handwritten forms will be acknowledged. > If you can't find someone with a typewriter or a computer printer, we > apologize for not being able to reply to you. > 4. faxes with cover pages will be rejected. You must send *only* the > reply form. > 5. forms not *completely* filled in will not be acknowledged. > 6. you will receive a reply within 1 business day directly from the > company making the offer via email. Therefore you must have an email > address. If you read this message, then you must have an email address, or > access to one, at least. :-) > 7. your fax must not exceed 1 page in length. Faxes of 2 or more pages > will be sensed, then auto-terminated and deleted. Your fax goes directly > onto our 5.0 gigabyte hard drive and we must limit all incoming faxes to 1 > page. > 8. all faxes must begin with: > *------------cut here/begin-------------------------------------------* > and must end with: > *------------cut here/end--------------------------------------------* > 9. Any fax not conforming to this format will be sensed by our software, > then auto-terminated and deleted from the hard drive, before any human ever > gets to see it. > 10. The type on your fax must be dark and legible. If in doubt, please > print it out darker before faxing it in. If we can't read it, we can't > reply to you or send you our FREE catalogue. :-( > 11. If this all seems too complicated for faxing, just do it the old > fashioned way via smail!!! > > WHO WE ARE: > > Tempting Tear-Outs is an advertising company that brings potential new > customers to the companies they advertise for. > > MORE ABOUT THE COMPANY MAKING THE FREE OFFER: > > The company making the offer is a magazine subscription agency based in the > USA. They have over 1,100 popular USA titles available to be shipped to > *any* country, including of course, to anywhere in the USA! They offer a > FREE 1 yr. subscription to your choice of over 200 of the titles in their > catalogue to any new customer using them for the first time. The > dollar value of the freebies, based on the subscription prices directly > from the publishers, ranges from $6.97 all the way up to $50.00! > > For new customers in the USA, there is no charge for FPH (foreign postage & > handling), so the freebie is 100% free! For new customers living > overseas, the only charge on the freebie would be for the FPH (foreign > postage & handling). > > Their president has been in the magazine subscription business since 1973 > and they are very customer-service oriented. They will even help you with > address changes on your magazines, even if you move from one country to > another country. They have thousands of happy customers in over 59 > countries. > > Their price guarantee is very simple: they guarantee that their > subscription prices are the lowest available and they will BEAT any > legitimate, verifiable offer before you pay them or match it afterwards, by > refunding you the difference in price PLUS the cost of the postage stamp > you would use sending in the special offer to them, even 6 months after you > pay them, as long as it was current at the time of your offer. Does that > sound fair? Wouldn't it be great if everything you bought came with > that price guarantee? > > Sometimes they are less than half of the next best deal out there, > sometimes just a little cheaper, but always you get the lowest rates > without having to shop around. With 1,100+ titles on their list, they > would like to think that they have also the best selection around! > > Within the USA, for their USA customers, they are cheaper than all their > competitors and even the publishers themselves. This is their price > guarantee. The 1 yr. freebie that you get with your first order is > completely free! > > Overseas, (even after you factor in the cost of the FPH (foreign postage & > handling) and the conversion from USA Dollars to your currency), on the > average, they are generally around one-fourth to one-half of what the > newsstands overseas charge locally for USA magazines. On some titles they > are as little as one-tenth of what the newsstands charge. They are also > the cheapest subscription source for delivery overseas, including directly > from the publishers themselves! Some publishers don't even offer > subscriptions overseas.........but overseas subscriptions are this > company's specialty! They feel that magazines should not be a luxury > overseas. In the USA, people buy magazines and then toss them after > reading them for just a few minutes or hours. They are so cheap in the > USA! Well, this company would like to make it the same way for their > overseas customers. They are also cheaper than all their competitors in > the USA and overseas, including the publishers themselves! It is also > *highly unlikely* you will find any of their USA competitors calling you > overseas, in order to offer that personal touch, just to sell you a couple > of magazines! But that is what this company specializes in and loves > doing! Around one-half their business comes from overseas, so they are > very patient with new customers who only speak limited English as a 2nd > language. Subscription prices quoted for overseas consist of the > subscription price, plus the FPH. You add the two together and that is > your total cost. The exception is the 1 yr. freebie you get with your > first order. On that title, you pay *only* the FPH for the 1 yr. term. > > Their prices are so cheap because when you deal with them, you cut-out all > the middlemen. > > HERE IS HOW YOU CAN GET MORE INFO AND GET STARTED WITH THEM: > > Simply fax or smail back to us the reply form listed at the top of this > message. We will then forward your form on to the subscription agency. > They will then email their "big and juicy" catalogue to you, in whichever > of the two formats you chose. The catalogue is FREE and makes for hours > of fascinating reading, on its own. It includes the complete list of > freebies, a complete list of all the titles they sell, as well as detailed > descriptions on most of the titles, along with lists of titles by category > of interest and their terms of sale. > > They will then give you a friendly, no-pressure, no obligation, 5-minute > call to go over how they work and to answer any questions that you might > have, as well as give you up-to-the minute price quotes on any titles you > might be considering. They will call you in whatever country you live > in, taking the time difference into account. As they like to > emphasize the personal touch they give to each new customer, all first-time > orders can only be done via phone, so they can answer all your questions > completely and personally. Once you have placed your first order via > phone, you will be able to place future orders and make inquiries on your > account, get price quotes, etc., all via email, if that is most convenient > for you. > > Within the USA, they accept payment via check over the phone, Mastercard, > Visa, American Express, Diner's Club and Carte Blanche. Overseas, they > accept Mastercard, Visa, American Express, Diner's Club and Carte Blanche, > even if your credit card is a local one in local currency (that most > merchants in the USA would not normally be willing to accept). > > That's our introduction of our client that we represent. We hope that we > have piqued your interest and that you will take the next step to get their > free catalogue! Thank you for your time and interest. > > -- > Tempting Tear-Outs. > For more info on advertising rates, please write us on your company > letterhead, w/business card, via smail to: Tempting Tear-Outs, 3835 > Richmond Ave. Suite #200, Staten Island NY 10312-3828, USA. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 20:59:39 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Oops! Apologies to the list for my misdirected "remove" message. I keep getting this spam from Tempting Tear-Outs and thought that I was replying to them. Is anyone else on the list getting messages from Tempting Tear-Outs? How did they get the Index-L address? Best, Sylvia Coates ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 21:59:18 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: Oops! In-Reply-To: <199901070346.WAA09609@mail1.bellsouth.net> Sylvia, don't EVER reply to spam. That innocent-looking sentence about "please reply to be removed from our mailing list" is a complete crock. All you actually do when you reply is *confirm* to them who you are and what your email address is... which will basically guarantee you'll get a triple load of NEW spam. Mike Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net ICQ #15741870 http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ If a man has any connection with Texas, Harvard, or the U.S. Marine Corps, he'll let you know it in the first five minutes of conversation. |-----Original Message----- |From: Indexer's Discussion Group |[mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Sylvia Coates |Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 3:00 PM |To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L |Subject: Oops! | | |Apologies to the list for my misdirected "remove" message. I keep |getting this spam from Tempting Tear-Outs and thought that I was |replying to them. Is anyone else on the list getting messages from |Tempting Tear-Outs? How did they get the Index-L address? | |Best, |Sylvia Coates | ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 21:33:54 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: Oops! Thank you Laura and Mike for the advice. I'm not use to getting spam. How annoying! Best, Sylvia Michael K. Smith wrote: > Sylvia, don't EVER reply to spam. That innocent-looking sentence about > "please reply to be removed from our mailing list" is a complete crock. All > you actually do when you reply is *confirm* to them who you are and what > your email address is... which will basically guarantee you'll get a triple > load of NEW spam. > > Mike > > Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services > mksmith1@bellsouth.net ICQ #15741870 > http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > If a man has any connection with Texas, Harvard, or > the U.S. Marine Corps, he'll let you know it in the > first five minutes of conversation. > > |-----Original Message----- > |From: Indexer's Discussion Group > |[mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Sylvia Coates > |Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 3:00 PM > |To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > |Subject: Oops! > | > | > |Apologies to the list for my misdirected "remove" message. I keep > |getting this spam from Tempting Tear-Outs and thought that I was > |replying to them. Is anyone else on the list getting messages from > |Tempting Tear-Outs? How did they get the Index-L address? > | > |Best, > |Sylvia Coates > | ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 21:22:07 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charles Anderson Subject: Re: Oops! The advice I've been given is never to use the "remove" reply offered - it just confirms a good address and invites more. Now if you lived in Washington State you could go after this spammer legally! Charles At 08:59 PM 1/6/99 +0000, you wrote: >Apologies to the list for my misdirected "remove" message. I keep >getting this spam from Tempting Tear-Outs and thought that I was >replying to them. Is anyone else on the list getting messages from >Tempting Tear-Outs? How did they get the Index-L address? > >Best, >Sylvia Coates > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:49:13 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli@AOL.COM Subject: Re: vertical file indexing In a message dated 99-01-06 19:03:33 EST, j.forrest@mcauley.acu.edu.au writes: > I have been approached to index a vertical file of family history ephemera > (held in a public library) and have absolutely no idea as to how I should > charge for this. Offhand, this sound like a project ripe for hourly rates. Fred Leise Between the Lines Indexind and Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:52:45 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Names, listings of In a message dated 99-01-06 22:14:27 EST, ashworth@pullman.com writes: > Tomorrow I begin an index for a book consisting of biographies of 500 > women > (in 430 pages). > > As currently planned, part of the index will consist of general subject > headings (artists, athletes, authors/writers, educators, entrepreneurs, > musicians, etc.) with listings of several names under each general subject > heading. > > Is there a consensus on how these names should be listed? The question has > come up whether, as subheads, these names should be formatted as "Jane Doe, > 115-18" or "Doe, Jane, 115-18." The alpha sort would be on the last name > whichever format is used. My "gut" feeling is to go with "first name last > name" (Jane Doe) listings as subheads, but I'm open to suggestions. > The Occupational Index of the Cambridge of American Biography uses: Heading last, first; last, first; etc., in paragraph format The Index of Names in the same reference book also uses the inverted format. Just one example to consider Fred Leise Between the Lines Indexing and Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 01:24:18 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Names, listings of In-Reply-To: <199901070502.XAA25186@mixcom.mixcom.com> >Is there a consensus on how these names should be listed? The question has >come up whether, as subheads, these names should be formatted as "Jane Doe, >115-18" or "Doe, Jane, 115-18." The alpha sort would be on the last name >whichever format is used. My "gut" feeling is to go with "first name last >name" (Jane Doe) listings as subheads, but I'm open to suggestions. > I list only the last name in subs unless there's more than one person with the same last name, in which case I include a first name, in "Jane Doe" order (but sort on "Doe"). In the book I'm working on now, I have lots of members of lots of families discussed--hence lots of same last names. I used the approach I just described but will also include the following in a headnote: "Proper names that appear as subentries are sorted by last name, although a first name is sometimes included to aid identification." Haven't had any complaints from editors or authors. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 22:10:35 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Back Words Indexing Subject: Re: Oops! In-Reply-To: <3693D6C2.6A412C6B@slip.net> >> don't EVER reply to spam. Someone gave me two addresses to actually "redirect" spam to: tosspam@aol.com and uce@ftc.gov What do these do when they get my turbo-redirected spams? Send the gov after the spammers? Get their servers to block them? Nothing, besides make me feel better? Martha BWI ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:42:26 -0800 Reply-To: jlee@eskimo.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeri Lee Subject: Re: Oops! Yes, and I'm not having any luck getting "removed." Does anyone have the email address of the Washington State organization that is supposed to make sure we aren't getting klobbered with tons of mail we don't want. The ones that fry me the most are the XXXX rated ones aimed at men. They certainly don't do anything for my libido! Jeri Sylvia Coates wrote: > Apologies to the list for my misdirected "remove" message. I keep > getting this spam from Tempting Tear-Outs and thought that I was > replying to them. Is anyone else on the list getting messages from > Tempting Tear-Outs? How did they get the Index-L address? > > Best, > Sylvia Coates ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:49:13 -0800 Reply-To: jlee@eskimo.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeri Lee Subject: Re: Oops! Does anyone have the e-mail address to send this manure to in Washington State. I've got a whole folder saved up to share with them! Jeri Charles Anderson wrote: > The advice I've been given is never to use the "remove" reply offered - it > just confirms a good address and invites more. Now if you lived in > Washington State you could go after this spammer legally! > > Charles > > At 08:59 PM 1/6/99 +0000, you wrote: > >Apologies to the list for my misdirected "remove" message. I keep > >getting this spam from Tempting Tear-Outs and thought that I was > >replying to them. Is anyone else on the list getting messages from > >Tempting Tear-Outs? How did they get the Index-L address? > > > >Best, > >Sylvia Coates > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:11:41 -0000 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Re: Laptop help In-Reply-To: > It works just fine. I understand that at some future release, Windows > will no longer run DOS programs, but I hope that's a long way off, If not I should think there will soon be third-party shells to run DOS programs within Windows. Regards _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:38:45 -0000 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Re: Oops! In-Reply-To: Hello - Does your ISP have a spam filter? This spam seems to have the usual silly attempts to catch the eye with repeated angle brackets etc, which are ideal for spam filters, both human and electronic. Fortunately spammers seem to be unintelligent. The more ISP's there are with spam filters which are used the less worthwhile spamming will be. As far as I know, current US legislation proposes to make 'remove' facilities compulsory. All that will do is give spam a patina of legitimacy. Regards _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:38:45 -0000 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Re: vertical file indexing In-Reply-To: Ignorant question follows: What is a vertical file? Regards _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 08:44:03 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Brian Peck (Research/Library)" Subject: Re: DOS [-----Original Message----- From: J.R. Sampson Sent: Thursday, January 07, 1999 5:12 AM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: Re: Laptop help "It works just fine. I understand that at some future release, Windows will no longer run DOS programs, but I hope that's a long way off," If not I should think there will soon be third-party shells to run DOS programs within Windows.] Here's what my understanding is... Windows 98 will be the last Microsoft operating system based on DOS. The core, or kernel (as computer geeks call it), of Windows has been DOS, but NT uses a different kernel. I can pull up DOS on my NT machine but it is not part of the operating system. I don't know how well this works as I've never used it. Get used to it folks DOS is the past. And just to make you feel better my first computer ran CPM and I have a soft spot in my heart for it, and still like it better than DOS. (I also have a Mac Plus in the closet at home.) The best way to look at this is the same as going from cards to computers, you can't escape change. I look at this the same way I look at my woodworking. I use hand tools exclusively, but if my livelihood depended on it my shop would have the latest power tools offered. Brian M. Peck Technical Librarian/Indexer North Carolina General Assembly brianp@ms.ncga.state.nc.us ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:58:41 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: DOS In-Reply-To: <199901070844.r99eh8.1oh.37kbi16.1@mx8.mindspring.com> At 08:44 AM 1/7/99 -0500, you wrote: >The best way to look at this is the same as going from cards to >computers, you can't escape change. I look at this the same way I look >at my woodworking. I use hand tools exclusively, but if my livelihood >depended on it my shop would have the latest power tools offered. One of the fallacies of the computer age is the assumption that newer = better. Yes, the migration from cards to software such as DOS CINDEX was a great leap forward for indexers. But I don't find a similar benefit in the transition from DOS CINDEX to Windows CINDEX. Much of what I do in DOS CINDEX involves complex patterns and executable statements that I have assigned to PF keys. I have so many that I have exhausted the number of keys available. I had hoped for this ability to be expanded in Windows, but instead it was eliminated entirely. That feature alone makes the Windows tool less suitable for me. For instance, here is a command I use frequently: FIND/FIELD=P/PATTERN !!A00[0-1][0-9][0-9][0-9][0-9][0-9][0-9]$; (Find all records wherein the page field does not end with a ten-digit string that begins with A00 followed by a zero or one followed by six numeric digits.) How would you like to have to type that frequently? In DOS CINDEX I can assign it to a PF key. In Windows CINDEX I cannot. (Unless something has changed since I last looked at it.) Dick ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:12:27 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Powers Subject: Online Help indexing I've looked on several websites and books, but I can't really find any direct confirmation of who is the best person to index online help. I assume that the department indexer would be the best person rather than the person who actually writes the help text. I apologize if this question has been asked before on this list. I've been unsubscribed for a while and am kind of out of the loop. I really appreciate any response!!! Thank you!! Karen Powers kpowers@arksys.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:21:10 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hannah Stephens Subject: Re: Thesaurus construction software Hi Sue, This is a quick and dirty response to your question. We have pretty much decided to go with MultiTes at this point and I'm writing the proposal now. I looked specifically at Lexico, TCS, and MultiTes. We didn't need all of the bells and whistles of Lexico for the price, though it would be an excellent system for a library that has many people adding to the database. We only need a single-user system that can be accessed via Intranet. With MultiTes we can get a user friendly system. I got bad vibes from TCS--not exactly a quantitative methodology, but they offered me a $1000 system for $200 and the person I spoke with was not very enthusiastic or responsive in answering questions, whereas the MultiTes representative was. TCS did not have a demo and didn't give me any references; MultiTes did. My reference from MultiTes had the same reaction to TCS. I corresponded with a State library that had decided on Lexico over the other two because by the time they got all the add-ons they needed with MultiTes it would have been as much or more than Lexico. It really boils down to your institution's needs. Hannah Stephens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hannah Stephens Multimedia Asset Specialist R1231 Photography Department SAS Campus Drive Creative Solutions Division Cary, N.C. 27513 Email: hastep@wnt.sas.com Phone: 919-677-8000, 1-3760 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: Susan Weiss [mailto:Susan_Weiss@TAX.ORG] Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 2:29 PM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: Thesaurus construction software The publisher I work for is considering purchasing thesaurus construction software. I have read several articles on the Internet about this type of software, and I've also looked at some demo versions of one of the products. I'd like to hear from any of you who have had some experience with these products. What were the strengths and weaknesses of the product you have used. Feel free to respond on- or off-list. Thanks. Sue Weiss Tax Analysts Arlington, VA e-mail: sweiss@tax.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:29:56 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hannah Stephens Subject: Recall: Thesaurus construction software Hannah Stephens would like to recall the message, "Thesaurus construction software". ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:36:56 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Brian Peck (Research/Library)" Subject: Re: DOS Dick, "One of the fallacies of the computer age is the assumption that newer = better. " I would agree with this, but we also must realize that the unfortunate problem with older operating systems and software is dwindling support. Much of the computer work I do now could still be done on my old CPM or Mac Plus, except possibly indexing which currently uses the latest SkyIndex. "Yes, the migration from cards to software such as DOS CINDEX was a great leap forward for indexers. But I don't find a similar benefit in the transition from DOS CINDEX to Windows CINDEX." The real problem, as I see it, arises from not changing until absolutely forced to, then the change becomes more difficult, and the loss of DOS support is a very real and near problem. "Much of what I do in DOS CINDEX involves complex patterns and executable statements that I have assigned to PF keys. I have so many that I have exhausted the number of keys available. I had hoped for this ability to be expanded in Windows, but instead it was eliminated entirely. That feature alone makes the Windows tool less suitable for me." I find most current computer applications way overblown. The WriteNow wordprocessor on my Mac runs much better and faster and is more versatile than Word 7 on my NT running at 400mhz, and I run it from an 800k floppy with room to spare for the document (the same goes for Word that can run on my Mac, though I like it less than WrightNow). Brian ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 07:46:56 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Oops! At 10:10 PM 1/6/1999 -0800, Back Words Indexing wrote: >Someone gave me two addresses to actually "redirect" spam to: > > tosspam@aol.com and uce@ftc.gov > >What do these do when they get my turbo-redirected spams? Send the gov >after the spammers? Get their servers to block them? Nothing, besides >make me feel better? tosspam@aol.com will only help with spam that comes to you from an AOL address (or if you have an AOL email address yourself and have received the spam there). I don't know about the other suggested destination. I almost never receive spam at this address, but I do at my AOL account. People who want to take the time really can make a difference: Forward the spam message to abuse@XXX.YYY, where XXX.YYY is the domain (example: abuse@hotmail.com). "Postmaster" usually works in place of "abuse," but "abuse" has pretty much become the standard "spam address." Most ISPs have rules against sending spam from their addresses, and will either close the account or otherwise punish the sender. This will not automatically eliminate all spam, but it will certainly put a dent in it. Yes, you will come across forged headers (where the apparent ISP is not the correct one), and yes, this takes some time. But getting a nice response from an ISP that tells you they have cancelled the account of the spammer really makes me feel good. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:02:57 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Anne Day Subject: Spam sent via Index-L (was: Oops) >>I almost never receive spam at this address, but I do at my AOL account. More to the point, only subscribers to Index-L can post messages to it, so Charlotte (our moderator) should be able to take care of this particular situation by removing the sender's address from the list of subscribers. Anne ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:13:00 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Names, listings of Carol Roberts wrote: << I list only the last name in subs unless there's more than one person with the same last name, in which case I include a first name, in "Jane Doe" order (but sort on "Doe"). In the book I'm working on now, I have lots of members of lots of families discussed--hence lots of same last names. I used the approach I just described but will also include the following in a headnote: "Proper names that appear as subentries are sorted by last name, although a first name is sometimes included to aid identification." Haven't had any complaints from editors or authors. >> Carol, I like this. I've been doing the same except that I've sorted on the first name and been uncomfortable with it. Inverting a name in a subheading seems to hard to read. Your headnote solves my problem. I have not, however, ever had a whole index with lots of these names as subheads. Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:19:47 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Margie Towery Subject: ASI publications (a mini commercial) Lori's latest note on ASI's Web page mentions several ASI publications. She does not mention two recent and one forthcoming pubs that are equally important to indexers. Last May, "Indexing Specialties: History," ed. by me, and "A Directory of Indexing and Abstracting Courses," by Maryann Corbett, were released. The history booklet is, as a matter of fact, ASI's current best-seller. Maryann's booklet would no doubt be helpful to anyone looking for courses, regardless of what stage you're at. Enid Zafran has edited a booklet called "Starting an Indexing Business," which includes valuable advice for newbies on all sorts of things. I might also note that editors, authors, and contributors for ASI books published by ITI receive NO monetary income. ASI receives a percentage of the sales of each book. Information Today, Inc. (ITI), is the official book publisher for ASI. ASI members receive a discount on the ASI books, too. BTW--and I make no implications in stating this--Enid Zafran and I are two of the seven (out of the original 11) who have resigned from the ASI board since the May conference. Happy reading! Margie Towery Towery Indexing Service ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:00:53 -0800 Reply-To: dmbrown@brown-inc.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: Online Help indexing Karen Powers wrote: > > I've looked on several websites and books, but I can't really find any > direct confirmation of who is the best person to index online help. I > assume that the department indexer would be the best person rather > than the person who actually writes the help text. Even as a tech writer, I would say the indexer is always going to turn out a better index. The author, subject-matter expert, marketing manager, and anyone else who's interested may suggest potential index entries; and a good indexer will at least consider all such input. In the end, though, it takes an experienced indexer to build a complete, consistent index. (If the indexer doesn't know how to embed the index entries in the online help source files, the author may step in to do the mechanical part--some companies have "tool specialists" who handle such tasks.) Good luck! --David ============================= David M. Brown - Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ============================= N O W A V A I L A B L E ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ Try HTML Indexer, the easiest way to create and maintain real back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:56:09 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Subject: Re: Spam sent via Index-L (was: Oops) In-Reply-To: <199901071600.LAA03024@library.lib.binghamton.edu> Anne, et.al., This is not true. Non-subscribers can post messages. So I cannot take care of the situation. Wish I could. I also rarely recieve spam at this address. Spam is also rare through the bingvmb address of index-l...so rare that we can ignore it (she says hopefully 8-). Charlotte On Thu, 7 Jan 1999, Anne Day wrote: > >>I almost never receive spam at this address, but I do at my AOL > account. > > More to the point, only subscribers to Index-L can post messages to it, so > Charlotte (our moderator) should be able to take care of this particular > situation by removing the sender's address from the list of subscribers. > > Anne > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:12:57 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Suellen Kasoff Subject: Re: Oops! It's best not to reply to them. This , at least, tells them you're email address is working. Just delete. Suellen On Wed, 6 Jan 1999 20:59:39 +0000 Sylvia Coates writes: >Apologies to the list for my misdirected "remove" message. I keep >getting this spam from Tempting Tear-Outs and thought that I was >replying to them. Is anyone else on the list getting messages from >Tempting Tear-Outs? How did they get the Index-L address? > >Best, >Sylvia Coates > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:56:59 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Laura M. Gottlieb" Subject: Thanks! 7 January 1998 Thanks again to all of you who gave me advice about laptops, about clinging to CINDEX for DOS, and about running CINDEX for DOS under Windows 95! What a great bunch of people you are!--Laura Moss Gottlieb, Freelance Indexer ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:32:06 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "John R. Sullivan" Subject: Re: Online Help indexing In theory, this sounds wonderful. In actual practice, it could be difficult (if not impossible) to implement. As a tech writer, I wouldn't be interested in handing files over to someone for indexing and then having them handed back to me so I can input the embedded entries. In most cases the schedule would not allow for it; in all cases it's an inefficient process. This method might be acceptable if the indexer embeds the entries (the mechanics of embedding index entries are not difficult to learn); however, as an author I prefer to be the "owner" of the index as well. I've always taken issue with the notion that authors cannot do their own indexes. There's no reason that authors can't train themselves to become at least adequate indexers. John Sullivan > -----Original Message----- > From: David M. Brown [SMTP:dmbrown@brown-inc.com] > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 1999 12:01 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Online Help indexing > > > Even as a tech writer, I would say the indexer is always going to turn > out a better index. > > The author, subject-matter expert, marketing manager, and anyone else > who's interested may suggest potential index entries; and a good indexer > will at least consider all such input. In the end, though, it takes an > experienced indexer to build a complete, consistent index. > > (If the indexer doesn't know how to embed the index entries in the > online help source files, the author may step in to do the mechanical > part--some companies have "tool specialists" who handle such tasks.) > > Good luck! > > --David > > ============================= > David M. Brown - Brown Inc. > dmbrown@brown-inc.com > ============================= > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:45:54 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Laurie Sarney Subject: Re: Oops! Yep, I am, too. I wasn't sure what mail group it was from. Thanks for the info. Is there anything we can/should do individually about this ? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:06:55 -0800 Reply-To: dmbrown@brown-inc.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: Online Help indexing John R. Sullivan wrote: > > As a tech writer, I wouldn't be interested in handing files over to > someone for indexing and then having them handed back to me so I can > input the embedded entries. In most cases the schedule would not allow > for it; in all cases it's an inefficient process. This method might be > acceptable if the indexer embeds the entries (the mechanics of > embedding index entries are not difficult to learn); however, as an > author I prefer to be the "owner" of the index as well. Indeed, and I've always indexed my own material (for both staff and consulting projects). But the original message mentioned an in-house indexer, and I think that's a better solution. > I've always taken issue with the notion that authors cannot do > their own indexes. There's no reason that authors can't train > themselves to become at least adequate indexers. I still think an indexing specialist, where one is available and the schedule allows, will do a better job. There's also value in bringing a fresh set of eyes to the project for indexing, just as a "fresh" editor will likely do a better job of editing than the material's author. I'm not disagreeing with Mr. Sullivan. As he points out, most projects provide neither an editor nor an indexer--the author wears all the hats. --David ============================= David M. Brown - Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ============================= N O W A V A I L A B L E ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ Try HTML Indexer, the easiest way to create and maintain real back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:51:45 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" Subject: Re: Names, listings of Do you have any restrictions on length? That might make a difference in how you approach it. Also, are you putting names in subs because the editor wants them there? I once did an index for a bibliography that, because of space limitations, couldn't contain a lot of double posting. I ended up with subject categories that included locators for each of the women who fit in the general category (in this case women composers from the beginning of time to the present!), and also separate entries for each name. When my list of locators became too unwieldy, I created subentries that were concept-related, rather than individual names. composers, seventeenth century (included locators for all such composers) French German composers, eighteenth century American Russian --- American music (included locators for all composers of American music) nineteenth century twentieth century French music Irish music --- names of individuals --- This way, the reader would find the name of the individual either by knowing the person's name or by looking at a particular general category. A reader might be interested in women atheletes but not know all their names (or the names considered important enough to be included in the book.) The reader might also know the name of a particular individual and so go to that entry in the first place. In another reference book on women in aviation, I did list individuals as subentries, last name, first name. This method seemed right for this particular book. Ask your editor! Paula C. Durbin-Westby ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:44:43 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: William G Meisheid Subject: Re: Online Help indexing >I've looked on several websites and books, but I can't really find any >direct confirmation of who is the best person to index online help. I >assume that the department indexer would be the best person rather than the >person who actually writes the help text. If you can get an indexer to do the job (depending on availability of a qualified person and your working budget), that is best. While it is true that authors can index their own work if trained, a professional indexer will usually do the best job in the least time, if you can find one experienced in online help. ________________________________________________ William Meisheid "Thoughts still and always in progress" WUGNET/Help Authoring Forum Sysop & Microsoft MVP Certified Baltimore/Washington area RoboHELP Training Sageline Publishing 410.465.2040 Fax: 410.465.1812 http://www.sageline.com wgm@sageline.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:25:32 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "John R. Sullivan" Subject: Windows 98 upgrades A while back several folks complained about problems with upgrading to Windows 98. Many of you have probably already seen Jim Seymour's article explaining what looks like a valuable tip for such upgrades; in case you haven't, the article is available online: http://www.zdnet.com/pcmag/insites/seymour/js981030.htm John Sullivan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:41:10 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J. Naomi Linzer" Subject: Re: stopping spam In-Reply-To: <199809151723.KAA07433@neti.saber.net> I found this old message in a file and will send the address of the recent spammer to the addresses below: >Yes, I sure have noticed an increase in spam and I stop it dead >as fast as I can. > >I turn on ALL headers in the offending message. >I NEVEr reply to the sender. > >I look for the origins of the message, and send the following >message to both "postmaster@" and "abuse@" >Feel free to use it yourself, as I got it from a spam-stopper >years ago. Seems to work! ******************************************************************************** Ms. J. Naomi Linzer Indexing Services POB 1341 Redway, CA 95560 (707) 923-4361 jnlinzer@saber.net ******************************************************************************** ******* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:07:03 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "M. Jessie Barczak" Subject: Re: Windows 98 upgrades At 02:25 PM 1/7/99 -0500, you wrote: >A while back several folks complained about problems with upgrading to >Windows 98. Many of you have probably already seen Jim Seymour's article >explaining what looks like a valuable tip for such upgrades; in case you >haven't, the article is available online: > >http://www.zdnet.com/pcmag/insites/seymour/js981030.htm > >John Sullivan > Many thanks, John. I am continually amazed at just how much these machines have become part of our lives; I recently tried to install an ISP software on my old 486. Just LAST YEAR I had internet connection on my laptop; today it is IMPOSSIBLE. MJB ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:43:00 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Field Subject: Re: stopping spam Hi, All. I've heard a lot of talk about spam on several lists, but I never receive any. No-I'm not complaining; I'm just curious about how spam works. I have email through a LAN through my employer, so it's no surprise that the LAN has a way to screen spam out. At home I have cable modem through a So. Cal. cable company. Do you suppose such an operation has a way to screen spam as well? Also, for those of you receiving spam, what type of Internet/email access do you have? Feel free to reply offlist at karenf@tritech.com . Thanks! Curious in California. ----- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:59:29 -0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Caroline Diepeveen Subject: Book on democracies on Eastern Europe In-Reply-To: <199901061819.NAA27975@hil-img-11.compuserve.com> As I am still in the early stages of my career as an indexer, I am hoping that the collective wisdom and experience of this list is able to give me some advice. I have been asked to index a book on the democracies in Eastern Europe, that developed since 1989. The book will be pubblished by a small publisher and I got the impression that publishing a book with an index is a relatively new thing for them. I have been asked to contact them next tuesday with my recommendations for the index. The book consists of thirteen chapters, twelve of them deal with an individual country, and one chapter presents an overview. They sent me the chapter on Poland as an example, on which I am to base my recommendations. The book is intended for the well-informed reader, the level of the Poland chapter seems to me comparable to an extensive article in the Economist. The problem I have is that I want to avoid long strings of sub and sub-subheadings under each country. I don't think that I can avoid an entry for each country, so my idea is to limit the subheadings under each country to the main issues discussed in the text. For Poland these will include: the role of the Catholic Church, the threat of Soviet Intervention, electoral reform etc. The names of persons, organisations and political parties will then each get separate entries in the index. After I had read only half of the chapter on Poland, I had already counted some thirty political parties. Not all of these need to be indexed, of course, but my estimate is that about half of them need to be included in the index. And I probably need to add many cross-references as well, because the (Polish) acronyms are very different from the English names of the parties, e.g. 'Democratic Left Alliance (SLD)' and 'Freedom Union (UW)'. If all these were to be included under the entry 'Poland', I think the index will become unmanageable. Is it acceptable to limit the subheadings in the way I suggested? Other suggestions on how to solve this problem are also very welcome. Finally, one more question: Can anyone recommend a good biographical reference source for Eastern Europe, preferably on-line? I know someone asked a similar question not so long ago, but that was about geographical references. Caroline Diepeveen Banchory (Scotland) Carolinediepeveen@csi.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:05:43 -0000 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Re: Oops! In-Reply-To: > Yes, you will come across forged headers (where the apparent ISP is not > the correct one), Much of my spam is headed with a hotmail address. It seems there is spam forging software that produces such addresses. Whether the writer of the software had it in for Hotmail I don't know. As far as spam is concerned, I don't believe a character of it, let alone a word. Regards _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:05:43 -0000 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Re: DOS In-Reply-To: > > How would you like to have to type that frequently? Not a lot. There is a software package called Macro Express which can be run concurrently with Windows Cindex. I am finding it quite useful as one can assign macros to hot keys or to key sequences. It will also record mouse moves but I don't use that facility much. See http://www.macros.com With DOS Cindex I used Newkey which was similar, but it is no longer supported. Regards _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:35:43 -0600 Reply-To: shellybourassa@execpc.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Shelly Bourassa Subject: Re: stopping spam A few weeks ago, someone had suggested an address which provides excellent information on getting rid of spam and other noxious forms of advertising. See: http://www.junkbusters.com Good luck! Shelly ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:59:31 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: Online Help indexing In-Reply-To: <199901071349.r9a0dp.2nn.37kbi15@mx7.mindspring.com> One last thought about this - a trained online help indexer also knows the ins and outs and bugs of your help product's indexing module, and how to work around them to build the best index for the interface. Because they have done it before, they know how to write the most usable index for the help system you are using - they have studied the index interface, and have figured out how to make it work best for the user. This influences how the index is written... Jan Wright At 01:44 PM 1/7/99 -0500, you wrote: >>I've looked on several websites and books, but I can't really find >any >>direct confirmation of who is the best person to index online help. >I >>assume that the department indexer would be the best person rather >than the >>person who actually writes the help text. > > >If you can get an indexer to do the job (depending on availability of >a qualified person and your working budget), that is best. While it is >true that authors can index their own work if trained, a professional >indexer will usually do the best job in the least time, if you can >find one experienced in online help. > >________________________________________________ >William Meisheid "Thoughts still and always in progress" >WUGNET/Help Authoring Forum Sysop & Microsoft MVP >Certified Baltimore/Washington area RoboHELP Training >Sageline Publishing 410.465.2040 Fax: 410.465.1812 >http://www.sageline.com wgm@sageline.com > +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Wright Information Indexing Services http://www.wrightinformation.com Jancw@wrightinformation.com +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:19:30 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ilana Kingsley Subject: Re: using databases for large indexing project This can be done with a perl script that parses the data, however, it really depends on the type data in the file. If you are talking about an index saved as an rtf file you can create a script that notices the entries according to tabs. But again....it really depends on what is within the rtf file. Send additional information and I'll try to be more specific. Ilana Kingsley www.indexpup.com >From: Diane Worden >Subject: Re: using databases for large indexing project >X-To: INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU >To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > >In a message dated 99-01-06 12:33:53 EST, Fred Leise wrote: ><< I would > be interested in hearing from anyone who might have transformed an RTF file > into database readable format for manipulation, so that entries do not have >to > be rekeyed. >> > >If anyone has done this, please reply to Index-L instead of a private >communication. I too am facing this prospect. > Diane in Kazoo ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:20:27 -0500 Reply-To: sholmes@smtp-2.mdc.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah Holmes Organization: self Subject: Re: >>>>>> L@@K! Amazing Free Offer!!! Unbelievable, but True! <<<<<<< 22 Tempting Tear-Outs wrote: > > To be removed from our mailing list, please send email to: > temptingtearouts@1stconnect.com with the subject line of "remove." > > FOR MORE INFO: please "cut out" the below form on the "cut" lines shown, > and fax it, for the fastest reply to: 1-718-227-9125 (this > is a fax # in the USA) > > or send via smail (first class mail or airmail) to: > Tempting Tear-Outs > Att. Free-catalogue-by-email Dept > 3835 Richmond Ave. Suite #200 > Staten Island NY 10312-3828 > USA > > SORRY, BUT.... our software is not set up to accept the below form via > return email; WE CAN ONLY acknowledge forms sent in via fax or smail. > > --> IMPORTANT complete directions, to ensure that you get a reply, and more > info follow, below the reply form and the catalogue options. > > *------------cut here/begin-------------------------------------------* > > Name (First Middle Last): > Internet email address: > Smail home address: > City-State-Zip: > Country: > Work Tel. #: > Work Fax #: > Home Tel. #: > Home Fax #: > Cellular (Mobile) Tel. #: > Beeper (Pager) Tel. #: > > How did you hear about us (name of person/company who referred you or the > area of > the internet that you saw us mentioned in): Referred by: Tempting > Tear-Outs > 010699-ls22-lafoubt-la > > Name of USA mags you currently get on the newsstand or in the store: > > Name of USA mags you currently get on a subscription basis, through the mail: > > Name of USA mags you would like price quotes on when we call you: > > Catalogue version desired (list number of choice below): > > *------------cut here/end--------------------------------------------* > > CATALOGUE VERSION CHOICES: > > 1. This version can be read by everyone, no matter what type of > computer you use, or what type of software you use. It is a simple > format, with just our entire catalogue pasted into the body of a > single email message, 316K in size. If you use pine or elm on a unix > system or an advanced software version such as Eudora Pro 3.0 or > later, you will most likely receive it as a single email message. > However, if your software limits incoming email messages to a > certain size, say 32K or so, then your software will split it into > multiple email message parts. Whether you receive it as a single > email message or multiple part email messages, you can easily > paste it into one whole text document with your word processor, in > about 10 minutes or so. > 2. For more advanced computer users: attached plain ascii text file > ~316K - you must know how to download an attached text file and > then be able to locate it on your hard drive or system home > directory; it can then be opened with any pc or mac word processing > software. If in doubt, don't ask for this version. This isn't for > internet *newbies.* Better to order option 1 and spend a few minutes > pasting them into one whole text document with your word processor, > than to waste hours trying to figure how to deal with this option. > This version is great for doing keyword searches and jumping around > within the catalogue with your word processing software, if your > normal email reading software doesn't allow this. > > VERY IMPORTANT DIRECTIONS TO ENSURE THAT YOU GET A REPLY: > > 1. you must call from an "unblocked number," ie. one that is not blocked > from caller id. We are very sorry for this requirement, but our fax > software requires this before it allows an incoming fax call to connect. > If you have a blocked number, you must first unblock it. In most cases > this means dialing *82 from a touch-tone phone (or 1182 from a rotary > phone) before you dial 1-718-227-9125. NOTE: If you are not sure if > your number is blocked, just try dialing our fax # normally. If you don't > get a recording telling you your number is blocked, your number has been > transmitted and you may press the start button on your fax when you hear > the fax tone from our fax. > 2. no reply forms can be accepted by email....only via fax or smail. > 3. your form must be typewritten or printed out on your computer printer > before you fax it; sorry, but *no* handwritten forms will be acknowledged. > If you can't find someone with a typewriter or a computer printer, we > apologize for not being able to reply to you. > 4. faxes with cover pages will be rejected. You must send *only* the > reply form. > 5. forms not *completely* filled in will not be acknowledged. > 6. you will receive a reply within 1 business day directly from the > company making the offer via email. Therefore you must have an email > address. If you read this message, then you must have an email address, or > access to one, at least. :-) > 7. your fax must not exceed 1 page in length. Faxes of 2 or more pages > will be sensed, then auto-terminated and deleted. Your fax goes directly > onto our 5.0 gigabyte hard drive and we must limit all incoming faxes to 1 > page. > 8. all faxes must begin with: > *------------cut here/begin-------------------------------------------* > and must end with: > *------------cut here/end--------------------------------------------* > 9. Any fax not conforming to this format will be sensed by our software, > then auto-terminated and deleted from the hard drive, before any human ever > gets to see it. > 10. The type on your fax must be dark and legible. If in doubt, please > print it out darker before faxing it in. If we can't read it, we can't > reply to you or send you our FREE catalogue. :-( > 11. If this all seems too complicated for faxing, just do it the old > fashioned way via smail!!! > > WHO WE ARE: > > Tempting Tear-Outs is an advertising company that brings potential new > customers to the companies they advertise for. > > MORE ABOUT THE COMPANY MAKING THE FREE OFFER: > > The company making the offer is a magazine subscription agency based in the > USA. They have over 1,100 popular USA titles available to be shipped to > *any* country, including of course, to anywhere in the USA! They offer a > FREE 1 yr. subscription to your choice of over 200 of the titles in their > catalogue to any new customer using them for the first time. The > dollar value of the freebies, based on the subscription prices directly > from the publishers, ranges from $6.97 all the way up to $50.00! > > For new customers in the USA, there is no charge for FPH (foreign postage & > handling), so the freebie is 100% free! For new customers living > overseas, the only charge on the freebie would be for the FPH (foreign > postage & handling). > > Their president has been in the magazine subscription business since 1973 > and they are very customer-service oriented. They will even help you with > address changes on your magazines, even if you move from one country to > another country. They have thousands of happy customers in over 59 > countries. > > Their price guarantee is very simple: they guarantee that their > subscription prices are the lowest available and they will BEAT any > legitimate, verifiable offer before you pay them or match it afterwards, by > refunding you the difference in price PLUS the cost of the postage stamp > you would use sending in the special offer to them, even 6 months after you > pay them, as long as it was current at the time of your offer. Does that > sound fair? Wouldn't it be great if everything you bought came with > that price guarantee? > > Sometimes they are less than half of the next best deal out there, > sometimes just a little cheaper, but always you get the lowest rates > without having to shop around. With 1,100+ titles on their list, they > would like to think that they have also the best selection around! > > Within the USA, for their USA customers, they are cheaper than all their > competitors and even the publishers themselves. This is their price > guarantee. The 1 yr. freebie that you get with your first order is > completely free! > > Overseas, (even after you factor in the cost of the FPH (foreign postage & > handling) and the conversion from USA Dollars to your currency), on the > average, they are generally around one-fourth to one-half of what the > newsstands overseas charge locally for USA magazines. On some titles they > are as little as one-tenth of what the newsstands charge. They are also > the cheapest subscription source for delivery overseas, including directly > from the publishers themselves! Some publishers don't even offer > subscriptions overseas.........but overseas subscriptions are this > company's specialty! They feel that magazines should not be a luxury > overseas. In the USA, people buy magazines and then toss them after > reading them for just a few minutes or hours. They are so cheap in the > USA! Well, this company would like to make it the same way for their > overseas customers. They are also cheaper than all their competitors in > the USA and overseas, including the publishers themselves! It is also > *highly unlikely* you will find any of their USA competitors calling you > overseas, in order to offer that personal touch, just to sell you a couple > of magazines! But that is what this company specializes in and loves > doing! Around one-half their business comes from overseas, so they are > very patient with new customers who only speak limited English as a 2nd > language. Subscription prices quoted for overseas consist of the > subscription price, plus the FPH. You add the two together and that is > your total cost. The exception is the 1 yr. freebie you get with your > first order. On that title, you pay *only* the FPH for the 1 yr. term. > > Their prices are so cheap because when you deal with them, you cut-out all > the middlemen. > > HERE IS HOW YOU CAN GET MORE INFO AND GET STARTED WITH THEM: > > Simply fax or smail back to us the reply form listed at the top of this > message. We will then forward your form on to the subscription agency. > They will then email their "big and juicy" catalogue to you, in whichever > of the two formats you chose. The catalogue is FREE and makes for hours > of fascinating reading, on its own. It includes the complete list of > freebies, a complete list of all the titles they sell, as well as detailed > descriptions on most of the titles, along with lists of titles by category > of interest and their terms of sale. > > They will then give you a friendly, no-pressure, no obligation, 5-minute > call to go over how they work and to answer any questions that you might > have, as well as give you up-to-the minute price quotes on any titles you > might be considering. They will call you in whatever country you live > in, taking the time difference into account. As they like to > emphasize the personal touch they give to each new customer, all first-time > orders can only be done via phone, so they can answer all your questions > completely and personally. Once you have placed your first order via > phone, you will be able to place future orders and make inquiries on your > account, get price quotes, etc., all via email, if that is most convenient > for you. > > Within the USA, they accept payment via check over the phone, Mastercard, > Visa, American Express, Diner's Club and Carte Blanche. Overseas, they > accept Mastercard, Visa, American Express, Diner's Club and Carte Blanche, > even if your credit card is a local one in local currency (that most > merchants in the USA would not normally be willing to accept). > > That's our introduction of our client that we represent. We hope that we > have piqued your interest and that you will take the next step to get their > free catalogue! Thank you for your time and interest. > > -- > Tempting Tear-Outs. > For more info on advertising rates, please write us on your company > letterhead, w/business card, via smail to: Tempting Tear-Outs, 3835 > Richmond Ave. Suite #200, Staten Island NY 10312-3828, USA. Please remove my name from your mailing list. S. Holmes ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:41:47 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Book on democracies on Eastern Europe Caroline wrote: << ...The book consists of thirteen chapters, twelve of them deal with an individual country, and one chapter presents an overview. They sent me the chapter on Poland as an example, on which I am to base my recommendations. The book is intended for the well-informed reader, the level of the Poland chapter seems to me comparable to an extensive article in the Economist. The problem I have is that I want to avoid long strings of sub and sub-subheadings under each country. I don't think that I can avoid an entry for each country, so my idea is to limit the subheadings under each country to the main issues discussed in the text. For Poland these will include: the role of the Catholic Church, the threat of Soviet Intervention, electoral reform etc. The names of persons, organisations and political parties will then each get separate entries in the index.>>> I've indexed quite a few books exactly like this. Here are my solutions. I feel that in a book about multiple countries, it's important to have the entries about each country under it. If one of the subheadings (for instance, the Catholic Church in Poland) turns out to have too many page references, I either make more specific subheadings covering the same pages or break it out as a separate main heading. So in this example I would have Poland, see also Polish Catholic Church; Polish Catholic Church with its own subheadings. <> Remember that the subheadings (broken out or not) of each country should be chosen based on the goal of gracefully and completely differentiating the information in that main category. If you made a subheading for each political party, for instance, a lot of them would all be on the same page, which wouldn't help the reader much. You would be very unlikely in a book like this to want a subheading for a person under a country name (unless Lech Walesa is the main topic of a whole section of the Poland chapter, or something like that). Instead, you'll look for the main divisions in the chapter, as well as places in all of the other chapters where that country is discussed (Poland, relations with Lithuania, in the Lithuania chapter, for instance). You might very well have a subheading Poland, political parties. Then the individual people, political parties, important events, etc. will have their own main headings. They will NOT be subheadings of Poland just because they're related to Poland. Do you see the difference? (For anyone who's taken my workshop, this is a good example of Do Mi's Second Rule.) Names of political parties, under their names in their own languages (so to speak) and in the language of the text, as well as the acronyms for both versions, are all important access points. They should be in the index as main headings (which makes the index pretty big, you're right--but it's necessary). But they're not going to be under Poland! Good luck! Do Mi Stauber ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:38:22 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PDepri5514@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Oops! Thank God for the delete button! Patrick. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:06:10 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Oops! At 09:05 PM 1/7/1999 -0000, J.R. Sampson wrote: >Much of my spam is headed with a hotmail address. It seems there >is spam forging software that produces such addresses. Whether >the writer of the software had it in for Hotmail I don't know. I've never bothered to look at Eudora (my mail program here) to see if I can block domain addresses...I know I can do this on my AOL account, and have reduced the spam to a trickle by shutting out whole domains. People who are getting a lot of spam ought to check their mail program and see how it can help them by filtering certain mail or refusing delivery. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 23:26:49 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DTDIGGS@AOL.COM Subject: Textbook rates -- thanks Thanks Francine, Sonsie, and Do Mi for the notes about the current rates being paid by some textbook publishers -- this was just the sort of information I was hoping to find. And thanks too, Seth, for the reminder about the contingencies we all need to consider when setting our rates for any type of indexing -- or when accepting indexing rates already set by the publisher. As usual, I'm amazed by how willing people on this list are to help -- thanks again! Teddy DIGGS EDITORIAL SERVICES dtdiggs@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 23:55:55 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Oops! << >Much of my spam is headed with a hotmail address. It seems there >is spam forging software that produces such addresses. Whether >the writer of the software had it in for Hotmail I don't know. >> I was thinking about blocking everything from Hotmail (I'm on AOL and get lots of yucky spam, a good proportion of it from hotmail addresses) and then I got a message from a friend with a hotmail address. Do Mi