Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9907E" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 07:58:45 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Iris B. Ailin-Pyzik" Subject: Re: Indexing away from home and work habits I have found this thread interesting from the standpoint of work habits. I have, however, been away from home due to a death in the family and lost some of the thread. Does everyone out there use 3-ring binders? How long do you save the page proofs? I recently worked on a large book with chapters by different authors, and found it easy to carry one chapter at a time as needed for marking. Is this uncommon? A 3-ring binder would have had to be quite large and bulky to carry with all of the book (almost 400 pages). The nature of this book was that each chapter was to some extent self-contained, although the terminology needed some rationalizing. Iris ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 01:33:41 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Indexing rates In-Reply-To: <199907290400.XAA02849@a.mx.execpc.com> Ooh what a hot topic this has turned out to be. Very stimulating, so I have a whole bunch of responses. Mary Mortensen said: >but all of you out there who are turning down work because the rate is >below your minimum *may* be creating opportunities for the rest of us to make >some money ;-) I should have made it clear in my post on the subject that my "minimum" is for a very specific type of book, a moderately dense scholarly book (which is the bulk of my business). I would certainly accept less (and have) for books that are easier for me to do. As for cookbooks' having one recipe per page, whoa! Each recipe can generate many entries: title of recipe, main ingredients, category of food, sub-recipes within (e.g., sauces for), etc. (Elinor, have I vindicated cookbook indexing?) Mary Ann Meyers said: >Having said this I still can't resist sticking my nose in on the discussion >about indexing rates. Are you as a group resistant to the idea of forming a >union of some sort (do you feel--shudder!--that it wouldn't be >professional)? I think I speak for the whole group when I say yes. ;-) But seriously, I can think of two reasons why lots of us might be against it: (1) most of us are freelancers and have chose to work independently and go our own way and (2) if we get together for the purpose of setting fees, we can get nailed for price fixing, which is illegal in the U.S. Noeline Bridge said: >I agree. New indexers, whether they have other sources of income or not, >need to get the work, the experience, names on their risumis. Part of that >experience is negotiating their own rates, discovering what they need to >earn, what they can live with. If, in the process of getting indexes done, >they accept less than they themselves and others feel they should...well, >that's part of learning the business. > I agree with what I take to be the gist of this. I don't think we should be *telling* each other (whether newbie or oldbie) what to charge or laying on guilt trips about what somebody or other's low rates do to the rest of us. As Janet stressed, we are entrepreneurs, and we get to make our own choices about rates. OTOH, I think it's great that we can share information about what we each charge for different kinds of books and why. clmonroe said: >The reason is that any group of suppliers getting together >to agree about what they will charge is pricefixing, which is of course >illegal. However, what we're doing is talking about rates, not agreeing to set them at a certain figure. Charles Anderson: >If we are truly professionals, as I believe, what is so wrong about charging >by the hour, and not on a piece rate basis the way shirt makers do? > > As some of us have said on Index-L before, charging a per-page rate allows you to earn more as you get faster. If I tell a client "I charge $75 an hour, but I'm really fast," I don't think that's going to fly. At least it never did when I was a copy editor. However, if I charge $4 a page and happen to earn $75 an hour (OK, that's a stretch), then good for me. Janet Perlman: >Don't get hung up on the per page rate. That was the secondary point in my >posting about $2/page. You *can* make out well financially at $2/page ..... >if the material and your ability to do it quickly while doing it well >coincide. Janet, I think you should write up these things into an ASI booklet. I've even got a title for you: _Pearls of Wisdom_. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My indexer@execpc.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer new Web address to come ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 01:52:39 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: speaking of laptops and working away (also: ergonomics) In-Reply-To: <199907290400.XAA02849@a.mx.execpc.com> >Do any of you have any opinions of the logic of this? Is it a waste of >$170, or is it a golden opp, not to be passed by. > Golden opp, Rachel. They're also great as a backup: if your hard drive gets fried, if there's a thunderstorm the day before your deadline, etc. Just be sure that the old model you buy will do what you want to do a year or two from now. ;-) Although, $300 is such a good price, you still wouldn't be throwing your money away even if you have to upgrade eventually, IMO. I'm not familiar with the 170, but I have a Powerbook, too. I adore my laptop and have used it in all kinds of whacky situations (e.g., sitting through my daughter's gymnastics lessons). As for ergonomics, the other thread, yuk. I'm wondering if a way to make it work for traveling is to have an inflatable pillow or two (adjustable height and easily portable). Anybody tried this? Patricia Gross: >I use Cindex with powerbooks all the time. Maybe there are keyboard >shortcuts that I could be using with the desktop, but I don't have any >sense of loss about what I am doing. And if you have software that produces macros on a Mac (as I think Rachel does), you can create keyboard shortcuts with the keys you do have. I have OneClick for that purpose. It was about $60 a year or so ago. I use Cindex on my Powerbook and rarely have to touch the mouse. Paula C. Durbin-Westby said: >One of the computer people I talked to said he didn't think a used laptop >was a good idea. He said they tend to break down anyway, and they are >difficult to fix. He used to buy used laptops in batches but found that >over 25% of them had problems and had to be returned by the customer. I can't quote statistics, but you'd want to be sure that the person giving those figures isn't also in the business of selling new laptops! I am on my second Powerbook. The first one worked great, but I needed to upgrade (for greater speed). I bought the second one from a guy who was doing essentially the same thing: upgrading in order to get something snazzier. Many people sell computers *long* before they're used up. But yeah there is some risk involved (not that buying from a store is risk-free, by any means, unless you have an ironclad guarantee and read the fine print). Cheers, Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My indexer@execpc.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer new Web address to come ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 00:40:10 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Indexing rates In-Reply-To: <199907280440.XAA24373@a.mx.execpc.com> >Could someone please >write a few "model sentences" for use when talking to a publisher? I tend >to stammer whn I'm asking for things I think they might think are >unreasonable (even though I know I'm not being unreasonable, I'm merely >asking for what I'm worth.) I know that some indexers raise their rates a little every year (say, on Jan. 1), and their clients come to expect it. I'm not there yet. But I do raise my rates from time to time--I now think of $4/page as my usual fee for average-density scholarly books--and I simply take a deep breath and state the rate. I often phrase it this way: "I can index that sort of book for $4 a page." Sometimes I quote a range (especially if I haven't a good guess about the book's density): "My fee would be $3.50 to $4.50 a page, depending on the density of the material. I can let you know when I've seen a sample chapter." I don't give explanations for my fee unless there's something unusual about the book that requires an unusual fee. In particular, I don't say things like, "I charge X per page; otherwise I can't make a living." Or "the cost of living where I am is pretty high." Justifying your fee like that sounds unprofessional to me. Most of my clients know I'm worth it and don't bat an eyelash when I state my fee. Occasionally an editor will balk and say something like, "That's more than we usually pay indexers." At that point, I'd ask, "How much do you usually pay?" When they tell me the rate, then I might ask, "And are you happy with the quality you've been seeing?" hint, hint. But if they are happy, I don't sweat it. If they can find indexers who'll work for them for a lower rate and do an adequate job, that's none of my business. If they sound a little unhappy, and it's a book I really want, that's when I usually make a pitch. I might go into a bit of detail about what they're getting for the money (detailed index, carefully edited, etc.) and end with, "I think when you see the finished index, you'll be glad you paid a bit more to get the quality." Is that shameless of me? Yeah. So? I think it takes a fair amount of practice to be able to ask for what you want. There's no harm in writing down a phrase or two and keeping it by the phone. My guess is that the more confident you come across (even if you have to fake that for a while), the more accepting clients will be. I must say, though, that if someone offered me a low rate, say $2.50, I'd still be kind of careful not to burn any bridges behind me. I might say, "I can't do this book for that amount. I hope you'll keep me in mind if you get a book that needs a top quality index and you can budget higher." If someone offered me the insultingly low rate of $1.50--well, it hasn't happened to me yet, but I picture myself saying, "I don't know any professional indexers who would work for such a low rate. You might be able to find a student who'd do it for that rate, as a practice project." If I let my fantasies go a little wilder, I find myself saying, "So you just want the chapter titles indexed?" I would never actually say that; I try to be polite, no matter what. You never know why someone is offering such a low rate. It might be that they just don't have any more money, or it might be that the person is quite inexperienced and doesn't know what professionals charge. In other words, you shouldn't assume that someone is insulting you on purpose. They may know that an index is a valuable thing but *not* know how to translate that into dollars. We should have a little "contest" for snappy-comebacks-we'll-never-actually-use. Thankfully, most editors I work with are very professional about working with freelancers and have a pretty good idea what I'm worth. I hope this helps. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My indexer@execpc.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer new Web address to come ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 23:53:47 -0500 Reply-To: pcraine@interaccess.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Peter Craine / Lisa Strubin Subject: Pagnation Changes I recently worked on a long book (1300 pages) in which the the typesetter made a mistake and the pages were off by 2 pages. This happened twice. Once on 330 pages, and another time the mistake affected around 500 pages. How do others charge or do you charge if additional work is necessary? There were two of us working on this project. One of us was able to handle these glitches in semi-automated fashion, the other had to do all manual fixes. This added an additional 5-7 days work. I have another question regarding books that requrie two indices. I have had occassion to work on several books where I had to supply two indices, but with no additional payment because I was being paid by the page. One book had a general index and a works index. Another book had a general index and a taxonomic index. On the first book, I did both. On the second I worked with another indexer who created the other index. We split the standard per page amount that the publisher pays. Any comments on how others handle either scenario--pagination problems and books that require more than one index are welcome. Lisa S. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 00:22:15 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elliot Linzer Subject: Re: speaking of laptops and working away Dear Rachel, I know nothing about Mac Powerbooks, but I do know that planning to work during your vacation is a lose-lose situation. If you wind up just enjoying yourself and not working, you feel guilty for not doing the work you were planning on getting done. If you spend much of your time working, you hate youself for not enjoying your vacation. Why not just take a vacation and try to forget about work? By the way, if $300 will get you a back-up computer and you don't mind spending the money go ahead and do so. | Elliot Linzer | 43-05 Crommelin Street | Flushing, New York 11355 | (718) 353-1261 | elinzer@juno.com On Wed, 28 Jul 1999 08:02:14 -0400 Rachel Rice writes: > > I have an opportunity (?) to buy an old Mac Powerbook 170 for $300. In > September I was planning to lease a laptop for 2 weeks so I could go on > vacation and not give up work (what the hell kind of vacation that is, I > don't know), and the lease would cost me $135. Seems to me that even though > the Powerbook is old, slow, etc., it will still run Cindex and Word just > fine, and for another $170 I'll have it for my next vacation or if my > desktop goes mental or something. I would only use it once in a while. It > would also be nice to be able to work out on my deck sometimes. Or in a > different room. > > Do any of you have any opinions of the logic of this? Is it a waste of > $170, or is it a golden opp, not to be passed by. > > Rachel ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 00:01:02 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Indexing rates There is something known as price fixing and restraint of trade in this country. It would be illegal for ASI to suggest rates for its members. The most it can do is surveys of what its members are currently charging. Fred Leise In a message dated 99-07-28 00:43:56 EDT, ljmmam@hypermall.net writes: > Are most of you members of ASI? Could ASI investigate > forming a set of professional standards and minimum rates expected for their > members--perhaps even recognizing long-term practitioners with a > professional master's award tied to an expectation of better rates for > experts? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 23:57:31 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Indexing rates You can also say that you have recently reviewed you business operating plan and find that in order to cover your current overhead: insurance, phone, etc., you need to charge $x per page. Fred Leise Between the Lines Indexing and Editorial Services In a message dated 99-07-27 12:34:20 EDT, dwindex@louisa.net writes: > Could someone please > write a few "model sentences" for use when talking to a publisher? I tend > to stammer whn I'm asking for things I think they might think are > unreasonable (even though I know I'm not being unreasonable, I'm merely > asking for what I'm worth.) > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 23:55:54 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Indexing rates "When you use my services, you are getting a highly skilled indexer who provides you with top quality indexes. For that, I charge $4 per page." It's funny we never argue with the surgeon about his or her fees for an operation (I'll leave out the whole HMO mess). We figure we are paying them for there expertise, and they are worth what they ask for. So are we. Remember if you choose to work for $4 (or whatever) per page, that is not unreasonable for you - it's what you have decided you are worth. Unreasonableness is in the eye of the beholder. If the publisher has a problem, that's their problem. On the other hand, if they continue to be able to get decent indexes for $2.50 per pages, that's what they will continue to pay. Fred Leise Between the Lines Indexing and Editorial Services In a message dated 99-07-27 12:34:20 EDT, dwindex@louisa.net writes: > Could someone please > write a few "model sentences" for use when talking to a publisher? I tend > to stammer whn I'm asking for things I think they might think are > unreasonable (even though I know I'm not being unreasonable, I'm merely > asking for what I'm worth.) > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 13:28:25 -0400 Reply-To: "Seth A. Maislin" Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Seth A. Maislin" Organization: Focus Information Services Subject: Re: Indexing rates > During the days of the dust bowl, migrant farmers from the mid-west moved to the west coast to pick fruit. The supply of pickers exceeded the demand and wages fell. Since everyone had mouths to feed, there was always someone willing to work for a lower wage. Hence employers were always lowering the wages, until no one could make a living. The people accepting the lower wages each thought they were doing what was best for themselves, but the overall community suffered for it. There's an interesting economics theory. Suppose you owned a gas station at an interesection where there are three other gas stations (one on each corner). If the other three gas stations kept their prices high, it would be in your best interests to lower your prices, to get more business. On the other hand, if the other three gas stations had low prices already, if would be in your best interests to avoid going high, and letting them put you out of business. If you graph this, you get an interesting result: Other gas stations have high prices: Lower your prices Other gas stations have low prices: Lower your prices Thus it is always in your best interests to lower your prices, regardless of what other people do. But clearly there is a better result: all gas stations keep high prices. But how do you do this? The answer if to develop some sense of enforcement. For example, if I treatened bodily harm on any gas station manager who lowered his prices, you can bet (a) nobody would get hurt, and (b) the gas stations would all make some pretty good money. Seems silly, doesn't it, that people have to be threatened in order to keep their prices high and to make more money. Yet this is one reason for unionization: if you break the picket lines, people get angry, and peer and employment pressure counts is often threatening enough. It's also reason enough for a fifth person to buy all the gas stations -- but such monopolies are often broken up by the U.S. government. We are going to battle the urges to lower our prices all the time, no matter what everybody else does. We might try to beat everybody out. We might also fear being outbid. Either way, it's going to seem that lowering our fees is the *right* thing to do. Economics demands it. Don't Do It. Beyond that, price fixing is illegal. So fix your own prices, for the right reasons. Find the inner strength. - Seth Seth Maislin Focus Information Services smaislin@world.std.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 10:03:59 +1000 Reply-To: diagonal@hermes.net.au Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Subject: Re: Indexing rates In-Reply-To: I would work out the number of words on the page. If there are half as many words as on a standard page then this would work out to a rate of $3.00 per standard page, which sounds a lot better. Glenda. > To Everyone: > > Have I got a story for you. A potential client called me yesterday > about future indexing. The rate? $1.50 per page. Uh huh. The > potential client explained that the rate was because the books contained > so many graphics and white space. > > Uh huh. Well, thank you but no thank you. > > Robert A. Saigh > > Razorsharp Communications, Inc. > Robert A. Saigh, President > 6482 Lloyd Avenue > Saint Louis, MO 63139-3445 > > 314.781.4731 > fugleman@mindspring.com > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 17:26:25 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rebecca Carr Subject: Reference Book Another good reference book is the McGraw-Hill Dictionary of Scientific and Technical Terms (Fifth Edition or newer), Sybil Parker - editor, 1994. Becky ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 17:42:29 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dawn Spencer Subject: Toll-Free Telephone Numbers Greetings All! I'm wondering about toll-free telephone numbers for clients. Are they useful? Do the publishers use them? Are they more hassle than they are worth? Your opinions and experiences, please! Thanks! Dawn Spencer Techni-Dexes indexlady@aol.com --------------- Coordinator of the Tennessee Regional Group of the American Society of Indexers tennwords@aol.com http://members.aol.com/tennwords/ http://www.asindexing.org/ --------------- Author of the Indexing topic at Suite 101 http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 14:05:12 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Beti Spangel Does anyone have info yet on next year's national ASI meeting? I figured if I start saving my change and line up childcare, catcare, and horsecare now, I might actually be able to go in 2000. Beti ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 15:38:04 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Suellen G Kasoff Subject: Re: Indexing rates can we have the URL for that Freelance Editorial Webpage? Suellen On Wed, 28 Jul 1999 11:12:18 -0400 "Patricia H. Gross" writes: > >>As a newbie I admit that I find the information about what other >indexers >>charge to be very important, however I would point out that other >>professional groups I belong to strictly prohibit discussion of rates >on >>their listservs. The reason is that any group of suppliers getting >together >>to agree about what they will charge is pricefixing, which is of >course >>illegal. > >We would be extremely foolish not to discuss what rates we are getting >from >various places. Otherwise we would believe the people at the >publishing >companies who try to tell indexers that everyone else is working for >$2.50 >per page. There is an ENORMOUS difference between discussing rates and >fixing prices. You do not see the people on this list doing anything >to >prevent other people from charging whatever rates they wish. Price >fixing >would occur when we all got together and set agreed upon rates. WE >DON'T DO >THAT. > >There is a weird taboo in some parts of our society against talking >about >money. If I hadn't looked at what the Freelance Editorial Association >web >site had listed as the price range of what people are getting for >indexing, >I wouldn't have had a clue what to ask for from my the indexing job I >just >finished, because the other recent jobs I had done were for a fairly >stingy >place (the books were interesting, so I didn't mind getting a lower >rate >for them). If I am working for a project that has a decent budget, >with a >fair-minded editor who recognizes that what I have done is valuable, >how am >I supposed to know that I can get more money for this job than I might >have >asked for if I had not checked around. > >Patricia Gross ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 20:13:41 +0100 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Re: Indexing rates In-Reply-To: > > >> Why should new indexers put their necks on the line so people who are > > >> not in need can get more money? > > > > > Perhaps a re-reading of "Grapes of Wrath" is in order. The question is, is there a solution for that type of situation? Trade unionism does not seem to be it. One thing, if those who charge low rates can expect only criticism, they are not motivated to contribute to surveys or open discussion. Hence, perhaps, the objection to talking about money - apart from the expectation that nothing new will be said. It is certainly a good idea to warn newcomers that indexing is not an instant money-maker, but there is the unavoidable point that the information given to them is slightly tainted - it comes from established practitioners, who know the situation but on the other hand have an interest in keeping numbers of entrants down. Any positive new ideas will be very interesting. Regards _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 14:42:42 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Weiss Subject: Re: computer tools for multiple indexer projects I manage a staff of 6 people. Some are employees; others are contractors. Only one person on my staff works on site. The rest of us work at home. We use Cindex. All indexers send their work to me, and I merge the files. It works beautifully. I've never considered using any kind of user ID system. We index journals and, in general, each indexer works with a particular group of columns. For example, the person who indexes general news articles in the daily journal also indexes general news articles in the weekly journal. The person who indexes summaries of court opinions in the daily journal also indexes those summaries in the weekly journal. I can easily tell which indexer has created each entry. I haven't run into any limits in the length of the entries or the length of the indexes, but our files may not be enormous. Sue Weiss Tax Analysts Arlington, VA. sweiss@tax.org (301)552-1814 Maryann Corbett @BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU> on 07/21/99 10:55:05 AM Please respond to Indexer's Discussion Group Sent by: Indexer's Discussion Group To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L cc: Subject: computer tools for multiple indexer projects I'm beginning to feel guilty because I rely on this list so much when I'm in difficulty--and here I am doing it again! Here's the situation: As a lot of you know, I manage session law and statutory indexing in Minnesota. To get the work done, I have six contract indexers on whom I rely heavily. They work at home and connect to our database. This year, they're using a new version of the custom-built indexing software that we just barely managed to get an index out of last year. This year's version is giving them massive headaches. So I'm trying to think ahead to other options, and the ones that suggest themselves are, of course, the stand-alone indexing programs that we all know about. (Our projecs do not involve embedded indexing.) My questions to the group are these: Is there anyone out there who manages several people (contractors, in-house people, it doesn't matter) all working with the same stand-alone program and who edits their work together? If there is, what tools are you using? I'd like to talk with you about size limits, length-of-entry limits and other constraints. How easy is it to get several people's files to merge and to edit the result? Feel free to contact me off-list if you prefer. In case your email system doesn't display my address in the header, it's maryann.corbett@revisor.leg.state.mn.us. Thanks, listmembers, for help not only with this latest query, but with many past ones as well. -- Maryann Corbett Language Specialist Office of the Revisor of Statutes Minnesota Legislature 651-297-2952 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 14:08:27 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Organization: Binghamton University Subject: IMPORTANT: INDEX-L ADDRESS CHANGE Hi All, The listserv has moved a new server here at Binghamton University. This means that in about a week, the old address will no longer work. Update your address books now: Here are the new addresses: to send a message to index-l INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU to send a message to the listserv (for changing to digest, unsubscribing, setting to nomail, etc.) LISTSERV@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU (Caps are not necessary, I just put them there for emphasis). The FAQ is being changed to reflect these changes and I will notify the ASI webteam. If you have questions, do not hesitate to ask. Charlotte Skuster index-l moderator skuster@binghamton.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 13:45:54 -0400 Reply-To: clmonroe Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: clmonroe Subject: discussing rates This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_006B_01BED8FF.836A6280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The original statement I was responding to was-- Could ASI investigate forming a set of professional standards and = minimum rates expected for their members.=20 This was an interesting idea, as was the idea of unionizing and some = sort of ASI *expert certification*. I was just alerting you'all to the = fact that some other professionals would definitely not even consider = setting minimum rates, and don't even want their members to talk about = such things. I know that the Index-L and indexstudents listservs are = for individuals, but the inquiry was regarding what role *ASI* might = take on. Collecting and publishing information about the market, = salaries, etc., or gathering information from each other about what the = market will bear is obviously OK. As for asking a professional trade = assn to set a minimum price for the services offered by its members, = well, I would know some lawyers who would have a big problem with that. = I responded in a spirit of goodwill by sharing information from my = experience. I didn't mean to put anybody on the defensive or imply that = anyone was doing anything wrong. Guess I will go back to lurking :( Cindy Monroe Monroe Knowledge Services www.monroeknows.com phone: (301) 897-2137 fax: (301) 493-4046 ------=_NextPart_000_006B_01BED8FF.836A6280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The original statement I was responding = to=20 was--
 
Could ASI investigate forming a set of = professional=20 standards and minimum rates expected for their members.
 
This was an interesting idea, as = was the idea=20 of unionizing and some sort of ASI *expert certification*. I was just = alerting=20 you'all to the fact that some other professionals would definitely not = even=20 consider setting minimum rates, and don't even want their members to = talk about=20 such things.  I know that the Index-L and indexstudents listservs = are for=20 individuals, but the inquiry was regarding what role *ASI* might take = on.=20 Collecting and publishing information about the market, salaries, etc., = or=20 gathering information from each other about what the market will bear is = obviously OK. As for asking a professional trade assn to set a minimum = price for=20 the services offered by its members, well, I would know = some lawyers who=20 would have a big problem with that. 
 
I responded in a spirit of = goodwill by sharing=20 information from my experience. I didn't mean to put anybody on the = defensive or=20 imply that anyone was doing anything wrong. Guess I will go back to = lurking=20 :(
 
Cindy Monroe
Monroe Knowledge = Services
www.monroeknows.com
phone: = (301)=20 897-2137
fax: (301) 493-4046
------=_NextPart_000_006B_01BED8FF.836A6280-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 10:27:06 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Sullivan, John" Subject: Re: Freelance Editorial Association http://www.tiac.net/users/freelanc/index.html John Sullivan > -----Original Message----- > From: Suellen G Kasoff [SMTP:lserve@JUNO.COM] > Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 1999 3:38 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Indexing rates > > can we have the URL for that Freelance Editorial Webpage? Suellen > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 10:34:31 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop Subject: Re: Indexing rates All -- I have been traveling a lot lately and I get INDEX-L in Digest mod= e, so I'm just now catching up on the discussion re rates. Cynthia, Mary, Janet, Charles, Noeline, and others have all made excellent points, but I= would like to add my 2 cents' worth as well. Note: this posting reflects= my personal opinions, not an official ASI policy. To be successful as freelance indexers (or freelance anything else) we mu= st possess (or acquire) entrepreneurial skills. Unfortunately, many freelan= ce indexers who have excellent indexing skills do not necessarily have the essential business/marketing/negotiation skills - or perhaps it's really = a "mindset" - to be truly successful. In other words, the two do not necessarily go hand in hand; being a good indexer is one thing, and being= a good business person is quite another. That's why the best advice given = to any wannabe freelancer is "Don't quit your day job." Or, as others on th= is list have said, you should have a survival plan. In fact, even if you ha= ve several years' of freelancing experience under your belt, you should have= a contingency plan or enough money set aside that you can ride out any unpredictable slow periods. I'll never forget the note I got from a wannabe indexer who said she had quit her regular job and then said, "I guess my question now is: how do I= get work?" Of course, she should have thought of that *before* she quit her day job! :^/ Another point I want to make is that indexers who accept ridiculously low= rates are not only doing themselves a tremendous disservice, but they are= also doing the profession as a whole a huge disservice. Not only will those who "lowball" have a difficult time raising their own rates unless they vigorously market themselves to new clients, but they also give thei= r clients unrealistic ideas about the value of professional indexing services. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 10:37:18 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: computer tools for multiple indexer projects Of course, the Publisher's edition of Cindex allows you to track by user id if you feel that it is necessary. That would be a handy feature if the material was fairly uniform. -- Sharon W. x7255 Rm. 223 Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Weiss [SMTP:Susan_Weiss@TAX.ORG] > Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 1999 2:43 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: computer tools for multiple indexer projects > > I manage a staff of 6 people. Some are employees; others are contractors. > Only > one person on my staff works on site. The rest of us work at home. > > We use Cindex. All indexers send their work to me, and I merge the files. > It > works beautifully. > > I've never considered using any kind of user ID system. We index journals > and, > in general, each indexer works with a particular group of columns. For > example, > the person who indexes general news articles in the daily journal also > indexes > general news articles in the weekly journal. The person who indexes > summaries > of court opinions in the daily journal also indexes those summaries in the > weekly journal. I can easily tell which indexer has created each entry. > > I haven't run into any limits in the length of the entries or the length > of the > indexes, but our files may not be enormous. > > Sue Weiss > Tax Analysts > Arlington, VA. > sweiss@tax.org > (301)552-1814 > > > > > Maryann Corbett > @BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU> on > 07/21/99 > 10:55:05 AM > > Please respond to Indexer's Discussion Group > > > Sent by: Indexer's Discussion Group > > > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > > cc: > Subject: computer tools for multiple indexer projects > > > > I'm beginning to feel guilty because I rely on this list so much when > I'm in difficulty--and here I am doing it again! > > Here's the situation: As a lot of you know, I manage session law and > statutory indexing in Minnesota. To get the work done, I have six > contract indexers on whom I rely heavily. They work at home and connect > to our database. This year, they're using a new version of the > custom-built indexing software that we just barely managed to get an > index out of last year. This year's version is giving them massive > headaches. > > So I'm trying to think ahead to other options, and the ones that suggest > themselves are, of course, the stand-alone indexing programs that we all > know about. (Our projecs do not involve embedded indexing.) My questions > to the group are these: > > Is there anyone out there who manages several people (contractors, > in-house people, it doesn't matter) all working with the same > stand-alone program and who edits their work together? > > If there is, what tools are you using? I'd like to talk with you about > size limits, length-of-entry limits and other constraints. How easy is > it to get several people's files to merge and to edit the result? > > Feel free to contact me off-list if you prefer. In case your email > system doesn't display my address in the header, it's > maryann.corbett@revisor.leg.state.mn.us. > > Thanks, listmembers, for help not only with this latest query, but with > many past ones as well. > -- > Maryann Corbett > Language Specialist > Office of the Revisor of Statutes > Minnesota Legislature > 651-297-2952 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 09:39:22 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Schroeder The 2000 meeting is in Albuquerque at the Sheraton Old Town Hotel, May 10 to May 13. The 2001 meeting is at the Boston Park Plaza Hotel from May 31 to June 5. The 2002 meeting is in Galveston at the Moody Gardens, in early May. -----Original Message----- From: Beti Spangel To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Thursday, July 29, 1999 9:09 AM >Does anyone have info yet on next year's national ASI meeting? I figured if >I start saving my change and line up childcare, catcare, and horsecare now, >I might actually be able to go in 2000. > >Beti > > > > >________________________________________________________________ >Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com >Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 10:55:55 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Van Pelt Subject: Indexer(s) wanted Indexer(s) needed for end-of-year indexes for 10 medical journals. Indexes must be prepared in "rich text format," preferably using Cindex for Windows. Pay rate is $3.00 per indexable page; total page count is 200 to 500 pages per journal. Work can begin immediately if desired with issues published to date. For more information, please contact Linda Van Pelt at lindavp@phl.cursci.com. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 11:01:18 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Patricia H. Gross" Subject: Re: Indexing rates; Freelance Editorial Webpage In-Reply-To: <199907291410.KAA01792@mx05.erols.com> >can we have the URL for that Freelance Editorial Webpage? Suellen > http://www.tiac.net/users/freelanc/ gets you the main web page http://www.tiac.net/users/freelanc/fees.html has fee and scheduling guidelines Note that they do give all the pieces of the puzzle: amount per hour for indexing should range from $25 to $60; pages per hour 5 to 10, price per page $3.50 to $10. That makes it clear that a project that someone does a lot faster than 10 pages per hour would indeed be quite reasonable to consider charging less than $3.50 per page. I remember one indexing job I did for a small press, one of the Ralph Nader car books. Actually I did two of them, but the one with the title Dirty Little Secrets was about 380 pages and I did it in six days. Now for most of you that's no big deal, but I really have never been fast at indexing, and I don't mind that. Most of the books I work on are scholarly or involve some conceptual puzzles that I will end out fussing over at length. The car book was great; at no point did you have to stop and think about what the author was talking about. There were models and brand names of cars (that did involve some complexity as to whether to put more under General Motors, more under Chevrolet, or most of the information about particular problems under the name Impala, for example), and then there were the entries like, paint problems; rust, etc. I remember that book when people talk about it being reasonable to charge less than $3.50 or $3.00 per page for indexing. But most of the books I've worked on just don't go quickly. By the way, I am typing one-eyed today because I woke up with a corneal abrasion, something I am vulnerable to from Graves disease, so I have a makeshift eye patch on. Yuck. I'm so glad I finished my big index yesterday. Patricia Gross ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 11:41:05 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diane Brenner Subject: Re: Indexer(s) wanted --------------479CCCFA031C1FAAC613C05A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, Linda I would be interested in this work. I have indexed a medical journal previously and am interested in doing more journal idnexing; I just haven't known how to go about finding them. I will be available starting the 2nd week in August. I use SkyIndex, rather than Cindex, and am a member of the Medical/Scientific SIG. You can check out my qualifications and download my CV at www.dianebrenner.com. Thanks, Diane Linda Van Pelt wrote: > Indexer(s) needed for end-of-year indexes for 10 medical journals. Indexes > must be prepared in "rich text format," preferably using Cindex for Windows. > Pay rate is $3.00 per indexable page; total page count is 200 to 500 pages > per journal. Work can begin immediately if desired with issues published to > date. > > For more information, please contact Linda Van Pelt at > lindavp@phl.cursci.com. --------------479CCCFA031C1FAAC613C05A Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, Linda

I would be interested in this work.  I have indexed a medical journal previously and am interested in doing more journal idnexing; I just haven't known how to go about finding them.  I will be available starting the 2nd week in August.  I use SkyIndex, rather than Cindex, and am a member of the Medical/Scientific SIG.

You can check out my qualifications and download my CV at www.dianebrenner.com.

Thanks,

Diane
 
 
 

Linda Van Pelt wrote:

Indexer(s) needed for end-of-year indexes for 10 medical journals. Indexes
must be prepared in "rich text format," preferably using Cindex for Windows.
Pay rate is $3.00 per indexable page; total page count is 200 to 500 pages
per journal. Work can begin immediately if desired with issues published to
date.

For more information, please contact Linda Van Pelt at
lindavp@phl.cursci.com.

--------------479CCCFA031C1FAAC613C05A-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 11:42:18 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Indexing rates In-Reply-To: <199907291009.rq0o5h.pl0.37kbi15.1@mx7.mindspring.com> > > It is certainly a good idea to warn newcomers that indexing is not an > instant money-maker, but there is the unavoidable point that the > information given to them is slightly tainted - it comes from > established practitioners, who know the situation but on the other > hand have an interest in keeping numbers of entrants down. I would be hard pressed to think of one occurrence of even one professional indexer ever hinting in the most tentative way to harboring such feelings. There is far too much work out there to be territorial about any of it, and the growth of the profession by the addition of new blood can only benefit everyone involved. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 11:46:53 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Indexing rates In-Reply-To: <199907291009.rq0o5c.pl0.37kbi15.1@mx7.mindspring.com> > There's an interesting economics theory. Suppose you owned a gas > station at an interesection where there are three other gas stations > (one on each corner). If the other three gas stations kept their > prices high, it would be in your best interests to lower your > prices, to get more business. On the other hand, if the other three > gas stations had low prices already, if would be in your best > interests to avoid going high, and letting them put you out of > business. If you graph this, you get an interesting result: > > Other gas stations have high prices: Lower your prices > Other gas stations have low prices: Lower your prices Remember gas wars? Competing service stations did exactly that and drove each other into the ground. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 11:52:34 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Indexing away from home and work habits In-Reply-To: <199907291009.rq0o57.pl0.37kbi15@mx7.mindspring.com> > Does everyone out there use 3-ring binders? How long do you save the > page proofs? > > I recently worked on a large book with chapters by different authors, > and found it easy to carry one chapter at a time as needed for marking. > Is this uncommon? A 3-ring binder would have had to be quite large and > bulky to carry with all of the book (almost 400 pages). The nature of > this book was that each chapter was to some extent self-contained, > although the terminology needed some rationalizing. I use nothing but. I keep a supply of three basic sizes: 200-pages, 500-pages, and 750-pages. Go to your local office supply store and check out the D-ring binders whit the ring spine attached to the back cover instead of the binder spine. The D-rings hold more pages and the spine arrangement allows the book to fall open without having to flip all the pages. I use the best quality, because the cheap ones only lasted a project or two. There is quite a jump in price from the 500-page variety to the 750-page. 5oos are about $10 and 750s are $25. I only have a couple of the 750s. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 12:03:23 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Indexing rates << It is certainly a good idea to warn newcomers that indexing is not an instant money-maker, but there is the unavoidable point that the information given to them is slightly tainted - it comes from established practitioners, who know the situation but on the other hand have an interest in keeping numbers of entrants down. >> I need to protest this comment. I'm a well-established indexer who charges fairly high rates and makes a good living. I spend quite a lot of energy encouraging new indexers (as I was encouraged when I started). I'm not at all worried about competition. I'm offered way, way more work than I can do; I hear constantly from publishers who are searching for high-quality, reliable indexers; I see many, many poor-quality indexes in published books. There's a great need for more good indexers. And my editors call me first. When I'm giving advice to newcomers, I try to be realistic. This means helping them understand that this is not a clerical job that can be picked up and marketed in a couple of months, and that it takes time to establish a client base. I don't consider any of this advice tainted. Do Mi Stauber ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 12:11:59 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Elaine R. Firestone" Subject: Re: Tips for staying awake for meeting deadlines In-Reply-To: <199907290400.AAA26801@calval-2.gsfc.nasa.gov> I hope I'm not too late with this one (I've had to catch up on my digests), but one of the ways I stay awake is to keep drinking. I don't mean coffee or tea... I mean water! Keeping your body hydrated is essential. If you want a change of pace from water, try the flavored seltzers without any kind of sweeteners. Elaine Elaine R. Firestone, ELS elaine@seawifs.gsfc.nasa.gov ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 12:25:59 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Nancy A. Guenther" Subject: Re: Indexing away from home and work habits In-Reply-To: <199907291409.KAA14896@carriage.chesco.com> At 07:58 AM 7/29/99 -0400, you wrote: >I have found this thread interesting from the standpoint of work >habits. > >I have, however, been away from home due to a death in the family and >lost some of the thread. > >Does everyone out there use 3-ring binders? How long do you save the >page proofs? Instead of a 3-ring binder, I punch a hole in one corner of the pages and use a single metal ring to hold my pages in order. For larger projects I may have several batches of pages each on their own ring. This is easily transported so I've never found the need for the extra bulk of the 3-ring binder. Nancy Guenther nanguent@chesco.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 12:17:08 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: 3 ring binders, was Indexing away from home and work habits In-Reply-To: <93325728601@voyager.together.net> Iris, Following Dick Evans's lead, I always use 3 ring binders. I have several sizes, and one small one for when I only want to carry a chapter or two. Once in the binder I can prop the ms up between the keyboard and monitor (I rigged things up so it fits perfectly and rests on the little keyboard tabs that are meant to hold an F key template. I bought a better 3 hole punch, and I punch the holes in front of the TV. Takes 10-20 mins tops. I got my second book in a row that was an already published and bound book. I never had it happen before, and then I got 2 in a row. Someone, whom I've forgotten, very sorry, gave me the fab suggestion to have the bound book unbound and drilled for the 3 ring binder. I did this yesterday for the tremendous sum of $2.10. And now I have my beloved binder ability back. Highly recommend you do it! Rae Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric racric ICQ 31476947 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 11:34:08 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Becky & Bob Hornyak Subject: Journal Indexing Rates I have just been offered a job indexing several journals. Before going with me, she wants to know my "hourly rate". Having always worked on a per page rate for manuscript indexing, I am wondering if any of you can tell me the "going rate" for hourly work for indexing journals. Thank you. Becky Hornyak, Indexer bhornyak@iquest.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 12:48:54 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PilarW@AOL.COM Subject: Indexing away from home Barbara, You asked about Kinko's charge cards. I use my business credit card. I find that the fewer charge cards I have, the better! Kara, You noted that when going to a small town or rural area Kinko's and other similar print facilities may not be available. This may seem so on the surface, but I'm finding that that's only so on the surface. These types of stores are popping up *every* where. They might be a bit be a Mom and pop shop, with a different name, and more costly in the rural areas, and the service not quite as efficient (especially as you get to know the Kinko's system and can manage it better than some of their technicians, ahem!), but it's definitely just as doable, I've found. Also, I stick to using diskettes vs plugging my laptop in precisely because of interface miscommunications, as Patricia (at least, that's who I think it was. Apologies if I got the name wrong!) mentioned with her Mac Powerbook. Sometimes I wonder if these types of formatting issues will ever go away (Star Trek makes it look so darned easy, doesn't it?!). The trick is to find the common denominator, and what works for you and your system best. Now that I have, well, Japan, Ghana, here I come! ;-D Oh, another thing about laptops: I swear I type faster on them! that keyboard is so soft, and light to the touch, and the keys so much closer together, I find it's much less work to type.... Pilar ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------- L. Pilar Wyman * Wyman Indexing PilarW@aol.com Great Indexes for Great Books ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 12:50:57 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: 3 ring binders Just checking in on this subject. I've never used a 3-ring binder. Never even thought of it! I work on loose proofs, stacked. I do cut them down if they are on 11X17 paper, which is entirely too big and unwieldy to handle, type/input from, etc. But I like to work on the loose sheets. I do like Nancy's idea of a single ring in the corner, and may try that. Easy enough to do, and might work well. Perhaps I don't like binders because I'm a leftie. Makes writing difficult with the rings in the way. Minor consideration! ;-> Janet Perlman SOUTHWEST INDEXING ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 12:52:58 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Journal Indexing Rates Becky, It's whatever your hourly rate is, period. There is no "standard." You might try doing a sample, maybe 1/3 or 1/2 of the journal, seeing how long it takes, and figuring a cost per issue of the journal. Then try suggesting a price per journal issue, or an annual cost, to your client. However, figure well, because you'll have to live with it after that. Janet Perlman SOUTHWEST INDEXING ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 12:54:27 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diane Brenner Subject: Re: Indexer(s) wanted My apologies for replying to the whole list. I am so embarrassed. Diane ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 13:04:00 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: Indexer(s) wanted Not to worry; most of us do something like that from time to time. Once I answered an ad on the list for an indexer and by accident replied to the whole list. I felt like I had streaked across the stage in my birthday suit! It's just a reminder for everyone to be VERY aware of what the "To:" line says when they start toward the "send" button. Cynthia t 12:54 PM 7/29/99 -0400, Diane Brenner wrote: >My apologies for replying to the whole list. I am so embarrassed. > >Diane > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 10:21:01 -0700 Reply-To: nkoenig Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: nkoenig Subject: Re: Indexing rates I don't find the Grapes of Wrath/gas war analogy very enlightening with regard to indexing rates. On the one hand, it is a question of qualitatively undifferentiated commodities, i.e., unskilled, physical labor and gasoline. On the other, it is a question of skilled, at least semi-artistic writing. Although any picker/tank of gas would do, the prevailing opinion seems to be that indexes do differ in quality and that at least some publishers are willing to pay more for that. They may also be willing to pay more for reliability in meeting deadlines. I find it very difficult to believe that the difference between $2.50/page and $3.00/page would be sufficient to induce many publishers to drop a competent, long-term indexer and bolt to a relative newcomer, someone with whom they have never worked. They'll give the latter a try if the regulars are busy or if they have become dissatisfied with their work. A lower rate might be added incentive, but I doubt it is often decisive. If publishers were willing to jump to the lowest rates they could get, I think indexing rates would already have plummeted. The Grapes analogy does suggest an interesting response to low wages, however. Although unionization has improved the lot of many farm workers, agriculture in the United States still conducts many harvests of shame. I guess what the Joad family and others should have done is refuse to work for those low wages. JUST SAY NO! Once starvation had reduced the supply of pickers, wages would rise. Indeed, after the Black Death had decimated the population of Europe, wages increased markedly. Seems an elegantly simple solution, though it does give added punch to the phrase "dismal science." Nick Koenig >> There's an interesting economics theory. Suppose you owned a gas >> station at an interesection where there are three other gas stations >> (one on each corner). If the other three gas stations kept their >> prices high, it would be in your best interests to lower your >> prices, to get more business. On the other hand, if the other three >> gas stations had low prices already, if would be in your best >> interests to avoid going high, and letting them put you out of >> business. If you graph this, you get an interesting result: >> >> Other gas stations have high prices: Lower your prices >> Other gas stations have low prices: Lower your prices > >Remember gas wars? Competing service stations did exactly that and drove >each other into the ground. > > >Dick > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 13:41:12 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Macrex Support Office Subject: Re: 3 ring binders Hole punch on the right side and put the pages into the binder upside down so that the rings are out of your way -- my brother (who lost the use of his right arm from Polio) taught me that little trick at least 100 years ago Gale Rhoades Macrex Support Office, North America In a message dated 7/29/1999 9:52:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time, JPerlman@aol.com writes: << Perhaps I don't like binders because I'm a leftie. Makes writing difficult with the rings in the way. >> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 14:04:39 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Nancy A. Guenther" Subject: Re: 3 ring binders In-Reply-To: <199907291651.MAA14107@carriage.chesco.com> >Perhaps I don't like binders because I'm a leftie. Makes writing difficult >with the rings in the way. Minor consideration! ;-> > >Janet Perlman >SOUTHWEST INDEXING It isn't a minor consideration if it is constantly in the way & slows the process. I'm left-handed as well & have always disliked 3-ring binders for that reason. For awhile I tried using the verso of the page (most would think of it as the back of the loose-leaf sheet) but that never seemed to work. Nancy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 14:05:07 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Debbie Lindblom Subject: Re: Toll-Free Telephone Numbers In a message dated 7/29/99 9:07:38 AM EST, Indexlady@aol.com writes: << Greetings All! I'm wondering about toll-free telephone numbers for clients. Are they useful? Do the publishers use them? Are they more hassle than they are worth? Your opinions and experiences, please! Thanks! Dawn Spencer >> Dawn, Some of my clients provide 800 numbers and it works out fine. Others do not make an 800 number available. When I do marketing calls, I often try the 800 number; usually it is the sales division and I can't get through to editorial, although sometimes it works. Debbie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 14:05:30 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: Re: IMPORTANT: INDEX-L ADDRESS CHANGE In-Reply-To: <199907291411.KAA05794@pluto.ipass.net> Just testing the new address... does it work yet? > -----Original Message----- > From: Indexer's Discussion Group > [mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On > Behalf Of Charlotte Skuster > Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 1999 2:08 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: IMPORTANT: INDEX-L ADDRESS CHANGE > > > Hi All, > The listserv has moved a new server here at > Binghamton University. This > means that in about a week, the old address will > no longer work. Update > your address books now: Here are the new addresses: > > to send a message to index-l > INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > > to send a message to the listserv (for changing to digest, > unsubscribing, setting to nomail, etc.) > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > > (Caps are not necessary, I just put them there > for emphasis). > > The FAQ is being changed to reflect these changes > and I will notify the > ASI webteam. If you have questions, do not > hesitate to ask. > > Charlotte Skuster > index-l moderator > skuster@binghamton.edu > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 14:24:26 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dawn Spencer Subject: New Slant on Toll-Free Numbers Greetings All! From the responses I received, my original message about toll-free numbers was muddled--at best! Thanks to all who DID take time to reply, however! Here's the slant I was really aiming at: Opinions on OFFERING a toll-free telephone number for YOUR clients to call YOU. We have gotten one, because it's a whole lot cheaper than our calling card, which my hubby uses to call me at home. (And the calling card was cheaper than calling collect!) I was wondering if anyone has noticed benefits to passing out their toll-free number to potential clients. Thanks! Dawn Spencer Techni-Dexes indexlady@aol.com --------------- Coordinator of the Tennessee Regional Group of the American Society of Indexers tennwords@aol.com http://members.aol.com/tennwords/ http://www.asindexing.org/ --------------- Author of the Indexing topic at Suite 101 http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/indexing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 11:34:44 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Toni Williams TPG/SG Subject: How do I unsubscribe? I know this has been asked and answered several times but I just didn't think it would happen to me. Have to leave 'cause I've lost my job and won't have this e-mail address much longer. Hope to re-subscribe later. I've learned alot listening to y'all. Happy trails. Toni Williams towilliams@procyongroup.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 13:38:56 -0500 Reply-To: dlwitt@concentric.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: quaker1 Subject: Re: IMPORTANT: INDEX-L ADDRESS CHANGE I guess it does. I got it anyway. Diana Witt (dlwitt@concentric.net) Ann Norcross wrote: > Just testing the new address... does it work yet? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Indexer's Discussion Group > > [mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On > > Behalf Of Charlotte Skuster > > Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 1999 2:08 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > > Subject: IMPORTANT: INDEX-L ADDRESS CHANGE > > > > > > Hi All, > > The listserv has moved a new server here at > > Binghamton University. This > > means that in about a week, the old address will > > no longer work. Update > > your address books now: Here are the new addresses: > > > > to send a message to index-l > > INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > > > > to send a message to the listserv (for changing to digest, > > unsubscribing, setting to nomail, etc.) > > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > > > > (Caps are not necessary, I just put them there > > for emphasis). > > > > The FAQ is being changed to reflect these changes > > and I will notify the > > ASI webteam. If you have questions, do not > > hesitate to ask. > > > > Charlotte Skuster > > index-l moderator > > skuster@binghamton.edu > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 12:19:24 -0700 Reply-To: lemoine3@worldnet.att.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: NANCY LEMOINE Subject: Re: staying awake and working away and Grapes of Wrath Has anyone else been relating these three threads? It's going to be tough to stay awake and index on the road after picking grapes all day! Nancy Lemoine lemoine3@worldnet.att.net "done with the USDA course and working on practice indexes" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 15:20:56 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Manjit Sahai Subject: Re: Indexer(s) wanted > -----Original Message----- > From: Linda Van Pelt [SMTP:LGVanPelt@aol.com] > Sent: Thursday, July 29, 1999 10:56 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Indexer(s) wanted > > Indexer(s) needed for end-of-year indexes for 10 medical journals. > Indexes > must be prepared in "rich text format," preferably using Cindex for > Windows. > Pay rate is $3.00 per indexable page; total page count is 200 to 500 > pages > per journal. Work can begin immediately if desired with issues > published to > date. > > For more information, please contact Linda Van Pelt at > lindavp@phl.cursci.com. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 15:32:06 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Manjit Sahai Subject: Re: Indexer(s) wanted Linda, I have come to know from Sharon Hughes that you are looking for indexer(s) for indexing medical journals. Now let me take this opportunity to introduce myself. I am a full time freelance indexer. I index books, journals, reports, catalogs, online documents and web sites. About 95% of my indexing business is in medical indexing. I would love to index your medical journals. Please let me know if you are interested in my indexing services. Looking forward to hearing from you. MANJIT K. SAHAI (Ms.) 703-406-7622 Sterling, VA > -----Original Message----- > From: Linda Van Pelt [SMTP:LGVanPelt@aol.com] > Sent: Thursday, July 29, 1999 10:56 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Indexer(s) wanted > > Indexer(s) needed for end-of-year indexes for 10 medical journals. > Indexes > must be prepared in "rich text format," preferably using Cindex for > Windows. > Pay rate is $3.00 per indexable page; total page count is 200 to 500 > pages > per journal. Work can begin immediately if desired with issues > published to > date. > > For more information, please contact Linda Van Pelt at > lindavp@phl.cursci.com. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 15:27:00 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rick Melanson Subject: Re: Indexer(s) wanted Just a friendly reminder, watch out for the REPLY button!! -----Original Message----- From: Manjit Sahai [mailto:Manjit@RAM-CORP.COM] Sent: Thursday, July 29, 1999 3:32 PM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: Re: Indexer(s) wanted Linda, I have come to know from Sharon Hughes that you are looking for indexer(s) for indexing medical journals. Now let me take this opportunity to introduce myself. I am a full time freelance indexer. I index books, journals, reports, catalogs, online documents and web sites. About 95% of my indexing business is in medical indexing. I would love to index your medical journals. Please let me know if you are interested in my indexing services. Looking forward to hearing from you. MANJIT K. SAHAI (Ms.) 703-406-7622 Sterling, VA > -----Original Message----- > From: Linda Van Pelt [SMTP:LGVanPelt@aol.com] > Sent: Thursday, July 29, 1999 10:56 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Indexer(s) wanted > > Indexer(s) needed for end-of-year indexes for 10 medical journals. > Indexes > must be prepared in "rich text format," preferably using Cindex for > Windows. > Pay rate is $3.00 per indexable page; total page count is 200 to 500 > pages > per journal. Work can begin immediately if desired with issues > published to > date. > > For more information, please contact Linda Van Pelt at > lindavp@phl.cursci.com. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 15:36:53 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Frank Subject: Re: IMPORTANT: INDEX-L ADDRESS CHANGE YES, THE ADDRESS WORKED FOR ME. SANDI FRANK ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 15:04:22 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: ergonimics of laptops ( was Indexing away from home) David Amundson wrote: > ... and I have a > footrest under the desk, made from a 1X12 and two pieces of 2X6. > I have a footrest constructed from one of the heavy cardboard boxes used to ship the gift packages of fruit which is about 4" high. I have an empty ring binder taped to the top of that to give the optimal toes-up foot position. (I tend to get plantar fascitis.) I also have one made from a large ring binder with a small box taped inside to keep it at a good angle at the eating counter in the kitchen; the chair there is lower so I don't need as much height. (Note: design adapted for the "carpentry challenged" among us.) > I'd never use a desktop for indexing again. I don't know why, but I like > the small finger movements that the Compaq and Toshiba laptops have had; Although I find the keyboard on my laptop to be somewhat cramped, I have as much or more problems with not having enough finger reach for the standard keyboards. I am always typing \\\\ when I want to backspace. (&%$#@!) Ann Truesdale ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 15:08:16 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: Indexing rates discussion on WISP-L Just in the last few days I read that the #1 mistake entrepreneurs make is undervaluing their services. I wish I could remember the source, but the grey cells are deficient today. Ann Truesdale ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 16:00:57 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Van Pelt Subject: Re: Indexer(s) wanted This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BED9FD.12E40CE2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I am overwhelmed with responses! I will be in touch shortly (within 2 weeks) after we finalize the details of our indexing guidelines for journals. Sincerely, Linda Van Pelt Senior Developmental Editor Current Science Inc. E-mail: lindavp@phl.cursci.com -----Original Message----- From: Manjit Sahai [mailto:Manjit@RAM-CORP.COM] Sent: Thursday, July 29, 1999 3:32 PM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: Re: Indexer(s) wanted Linda, I have come to know from Sharon Hughes that you are looking for indexer(s) for indexing medical journals. Now let me take this opportunity to introduce myself. I am a full time freelance indexer. I index books, journals, reports, catalogs, online documents and web sites. About 95% of my indexing business is in medical indexing. I would love to index your medical journals. Please let me know if you are interested in my indexing services. Looking forward to hearing from you. MANJIT K. SAHAI (Ms.) 703-406-7622 Sterling, VA > -----Original Message----- > From: Linda Van Pelt [SMTP:LGVanPelt@aol.com] > Sent: Thursday, July 29, 1999 10:56 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Indexer(s) wanted > > Indexer(s) needed for end-of-year indexes for 10 medical journals. > Indexes > must be prepared in "rich text format," preferably using Cindex for > Windows. > Pay rate is $3.00 per indexable page; total page count is 200 to 500 > pages > per journal. Work can begin immediately if desired with issues > published to > date. > > For more information, please contact Linda Van Pelt at > lindavp@phl.cursci.com. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BED9FD.12E40CE2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: Indexer(s) wanted

I am overwhelmed with responses! I will be in touch = shortly (within 2 weeks) after we finalize the details of our indexing = guidelines for journals.

Sincerely,
Linda Van Pelt
Senior Developmental Editor
Current Science Inc.
E-mail:  lindavp@phl.cursci.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Manjit Sahai [mailto:Manjit@RAM-CORP.COM]
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 1999 3:32 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
Subject: Re: Indexer(s) wanted


Linda,

I have come to know from Sharon Hughes that you are = looking for
indexer(s) for indexing medical journals. Now let me = take this
opportunity to introduce myself. I am a full time = freelance indexer. I
index books, journals, reports, catalogs, online = documents and web
sites. About 95% of my indexing business is in = medical indexing.

I would love to index your medical journals. Please = let me know if you
are interested in my indexing services.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

MANJIT K. SAHAI (Ms.)
703-406-7622
Sterling, VA
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Linda Van Pelt = [SMTP:LGVanPelt@aol.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 29, 1999 10:56 AM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list = INDEX-L
> Subject:      = Indexer(s) wanted
>
> Indexer(s) needed for end-of-year indexes for = 10 medical journals.
> Indexes
> must be prepared in "rich text = format," preferably using Cindex for
> Windows.
> Pay rate is $3.00 per indexable page; total = page count is 200 to 500
> pages
> per journal. Work can begin immediately if = desired with issues
> published to
> date.
>
> For more information, please contact Linda Van = Pelt at
> lindavp@phl.cursci.com.

------_=_NextPart_001_01BED9FD.12E40CE2-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 16:26:55 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Iris B. Ailin-Pyzik" Subject: Re: 3 ring binders Janet - Since this is just for you, punch the holes on the right! :-) Iris JPerlman@aol.com wrote: > > Just checking in on this subject. > > I've never used a 3-ring binder. Never even thought of it! I work on loose > proofs, stacked. I do cut them down if they are on 11X17 paper, which is > entirely too big and unwieldy to handle, type/input from, etc. But I like to > work on the loose sheets. > > I do like Nancy's idea of a single ring in the corner, and may try that. > Easy enough to do, and might work well. > > Perhaps I don't like binders because I'm a leftie. Makes writing difficult > with the rings in the way. Minor consideration! ;-> > > Janet Perlman > SOUTHWEST INDEXING ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 21:57:06 +0100 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Re: Indexing rates In-Reply-To: > > > > It is certainly a good idea to warn newcomers that indexing is not an > > instant money-maker, but there is the unavoidable point that the > > information given to them is slightly tainted - it comes from > > established practitioners, who know the situation but on the other hand > > have an interest in keeping numbers of entrants down. > > I would be hard pressed to think of one occurrence of even one > professional indexer ever hinting in the most tentative way to harboring > such feelings. I would not have supposed anyone would admit to such, yet I have seen such views expressed quite openly and publicly - though not on index-l. I would have liked to think I was as wrong as you think I am. However, when I mention an interest, this is a temptation, not a sin. But newbies don't know to what extent their advisers are incorruptible. Regards _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 21:57:06 +0100 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Re: Indexing rates In-Reply-To: > << It is certainly a good idea to warn newcomers that indexing is not an > instant money-maker, but there is the unavoidable point that the > information given to them is slightly tainted > I need to protest this comment. I'm a well-established indexer who charges > fairly high rates and makes a good living. I spend quite a lot of energy > encouraging new indexers (as I was encouraged when I started). I'm not at > all worried about competition. I am glad to hear it. Is what you relate a common or an exceptional experience? Publishers who bemoan the shortage of good indexers should be ready to budget decent amounts for good indexes, to put their money where their mouth is. And we should be ready to help each other with information about rates without threat. Unfortunately we keep hearing moans about those who charge low rates as though they know they don't have to. Regards _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 14:39:59 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Indexing rates At 08:13 PM 7/28/1999 +0100, J.R. Sampson wrote: >It is certainly a good idea to warn newcomers that indexing is not an >instant money-maker, but there is the unavoidable point that the >information given to them is slightly tainted - it comes from >established practitioners, who know the situation but on the other >hand have an interest in keeping numbers of entrants down. I don't worry about newcomers...generally, I welcome them. There are lots of publishing houses, academic presses, and independent businesses who need indexes; I doubt that I will be out of work anytime soon. And I'd bet that at least half the newbies drop out of the business after only a few months or less. Either they can't really do the work, find that they don't like it, or give up on the tough marketing it takes to really get a foothold. None of this really affects me. My regular clients aren't about to replace me with someone who just started indexing last Tuesday, nor are they going to expect me to accept $1.50 a page because somebody else said she would do the job for that amount. We are all competitors in a general sense, but most of us specialize. Thus, we're usually not competing for exactly the same work, and there is a LOT of work out there. Sonsie sconroy@slonet.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 14:37:22 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: Indexing rates I just have to second protesting the original comment. When I started indexing, in 1989, I was given incredible support from the members of the Golden Gate chapter (San Francisco Bay Area). No only did the more established indexers of that chapter give me solid advice regarding computer equipment purchase etc. but I was given a number of my first clients directly through these same indexers. The Golden Gate chapter indexers were always open to any questions I had and were available for "phone consultations" whenever I needed one. Their generosity and graciousness were overwhelming. I would find it hard to believe that other chapters would be any different then the Golden Gate Chapter. Now, after years of experience, I am very aware of three truisms: 1. Indexing is not an instant money-maker. It takes time to build up a client list and get enough projects to make indexing your sole source of income. This is true of any new business in any field. 2. There is plenty of room for new indexers. Indexers who are good and experienced have more then enough work and are not likely to be threatened by newcomers. I regularly turn down work and most experienced indexers I know are also turning down work. 3. Indexers, in my experience, will continue to be generous and gracious to newcomers. I am very sorry if you have had negative experiences with indexers. But please don't make assumptions about other indexers and "tainted information" they might be giving to others. Those of us who have been indexing for several years have seen so many newcomers approach indexing with wildly unrealistic expectations. Unrealistic expectations often bring disappointment and sometimes bitter failure. If an experienced indexer gives a newcomer warnings it is not to discourage them but to save them from unnecessary pain. Please don't read sincerely made warnings for anything other then well meaning. A newcomer can really benefit from advice in avoiding common pitfalls and in building up a successful indexing business. I can't even imagine an experienced indexer trying to sabotage a newcomer in any manner whatsoever. If you are able to attend a local ASI chapter I'm sure that you'll find wonderful indexers who are happy to network with you. Best, Sylvia Coates "J.R. Sampson" wrote: > > << It is certainly a good idea to warn newcomers that indexing is not an > > instant money-maker, but there is the unavoidable point that the > > information given to them is slightly tainted > > > I need to protest this comment. I'm a well-established indexer who charges > > fairly high rates and makes a good living. I spend quite a lot of energy > > encouraging new indexers (as I was encouraged when I started). I'm not at > > all worried about competition. > > I am glad to hear it. Is what you relate a common or an exceptional > experience? Publishers who bemoan the shortage of good indexers > should be ready to budget decent amounts for good indexes, to put > their money where their mouth is. And we should be ready to help > each other with information about rates without threat. Unfortunately > we keep hearing moans about those who charge low rates as though > they know they don't have to. > > Regards > > _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 17:50:01 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: 3 ring binders, was Indexing away from home and work habits In-Reply-To: <199907291228.rq1099.8la.37kbi3u@mx10.mindspring.com> > > I bought a better 3 hole punch, and I punch the holes in front of the TV. > Takes 10-20 mins tops. I bought a good punch, too. It's supposed to handle about 50 pages, but 30 is more like it. I use it for small batches of 300 or so, but every once in a while I find myself with several thousand pages, and that's when I head to Kinko's. They 3-hole drill a stack of about 500 pages for $3. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 18:00:41 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Frank Subject: Re: 3 ring binders, was Indexing away from home and work habits The information on 3-hole binders was news to me. I'm always interested in how other people organize themselves. I usually work right from the loose proofs on a large desk. The desk is L-shaped, so the computer monitor and keyboard are on the L. How long do you keep the proofs in the binder? This method sounds like it works great for book indexes, but what about journal indexes? Do you 3-hole punch them, too? Or do you just work on them in the bound form? Sandi Frank ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 15:34:30 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Toll-Free Telephone Numbers At 05:42 PM 7/28/1999 EDT, Dawn Spencer wrote: >I'm wondering about toll-free telephone numbers for clients. Are they useful? >Do the publishers use them? Are they more hassle than they are worth? Personally, I wouldn't bother. My long distance business phone bill has steadily decreased over the past few years due to the advent of email, and I'm sure most of the publishers I work for have found the same thing. I would say that 50% of my first contacts now come through email, and virtually all the remaining communication gets handled that way. It's been at least a couple of years since I ran into a publisher/editor who did not have an email address or web page. If you live out of the the country and are marketing to U.S. publishers (or if you are in the opposite situation), it MIGHT be a worthwhile investment. Sonsie sconroy@slonet.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 23:15:32 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bill Lee Subject: Someone's soliciting freelancers Hi, List, I received a telephone call at 9:30 this evening from a man who identified himself only as "Thomas" and he was telling me all about the advantages available to freelancers at a site called freeagent.com. I asked him where he was calling from and he said Del Ray, Florida. He wouldn't give his last name nor how he found me. He called me by my first name. He could get my name, city, and the fact that I freelance from my AOL profile. Or some buddies may have referred me to them. I thought it was odd, however. Usually those calls are for carpet cleaning or replacement windows. Anybody have any experience with this? I haven't checked the site yet. Bill Lee ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 00:32:23 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" Subject: Re: Indexing rates When I first started indexing as a freelancer, I had no idea of what people were charging, because I had been out of the business for 5 years. I had been going to school full time and working for peanuts when I wasn't studying. I charged much less than 3 per page because I didn't know anyone else was charging more. I charged what I had charged many years before because... I rememberd that number! Several friends took me aside and told me what they charged and assured me it was a reasonable rate, certainly not extortion! After I joined index-L and heard several discussions I decided that perhaps it was reasonable to charge as much as 3 per page! I also learned what people with the total number of years of indexing experience were charging, and thought about it, and came up with a figure that I thought would earn me a living and not be too outrageous for most of my clients. If we didn't have rate discussion periodically I might be one of the indexers who has ten-plus years of experience and only charges $2.25 per page: "Surely we aren't going to pay YOU more when Paula will do it for less than $2.50!" the publishers will tell you. "And she does difficult philosophical treatises and convoluted political theory, too! No way we are going to pay YOU $3.50 or more per page! We'll just stick with Paula. She hasn't raised her rates for ten years and she isn't complaining!" I got into this because I was a good indexer, not because I knew anything about the business side of it. So, thanks to all those who felt comfortable enough to share what they charge. I don't think of it as "prcie fixing" so much as I think of it as understanding what the market will bear, or could bear. In other occupations, it can be easier to find out what you're worth, but a lot of us are freelancers operating out of our homes. Paula Durbin-Westby dwindex@louisa.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 01:32:06 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" Subject: three in one week! Really, this is too much! I have three indexing projects before me, each more egregious than the last! The first has a line limit so short that I cannot possibly present the author's intentions in the index. The point of the book is to introduce students to the authors, works and concepts in a particular discipline. There are perhaps ten authors and titles on each page, and several concepts. To do the index in the allotted space I can only have two entries per page. When I asked the editor to be sure, I was told, "Actually we have even less space than that, so keep it short!" The second index arrived with a list of terms and concepts to be included. The list also includes terms NOT to be indexed. The list is not in alphabetical order and is mostly in order of appearance in the book, but not necessarily! I have to do a lot of hunting. On the list are a number of items that are not worthy of being included in the index: "As he was walking down Main Street, Edison had yet another idea for a lightbulb that would work." This author would have Main Street in her list (a fictitious example, to be sure). Several important concepts and persons aren't on the list at all. I've been told to follow the list. Third dumb indexing thing: an author BEGGED me to do her book on a rush schedule. She really wants it by tomorrow (Friday 30th) but I said the earliest I could have it was Tuesday the third. The proofs never arrived, so I finally called her. She was planning to send them Friday (tomorrow) so I could rearrange my entire weekend, do the index, and have it back to her by Tuesday at the latest. I politely explained that I was not going to be here this weekend and that UPS doesn't deliver in my rural area on Saturday anyway. Talk about wanting it done yesterday! I've had unusual and exasperating indexing experiences before, but never three in one week! Happy indexing! Paula Durbin-Westby dwindex@louisa.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 03:38:39 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: 3 ring binders Janet wrote: << I've never used a 3-ring binder. Never even thought of it! I work on loose proofs, stacked. I do cut them down if they are on 11X17 paper, which is entirely too big and unwieldy to handle, type/input from, etc. But I like to work on the loose sheets.>> Me too. I guess I could work with a binder--I flip back and forth through my pages all the time, but I've never felt the need. I love hearing about the different ways people work! Do Mi Stauber ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 04:27:26 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kim Harris Subject: Re: three in one week! In a message dated 30/07/99 06:03:33 GMT Daylight Time, dwindex@LOUISA.NET writes: << 've had unusual and exasperating indexing experiences before, but never three in one week! >> Dear Paula You must be a saint (or not have any hair left after pulling it all out!). Those examples are exasperating, to say the least! I have one publisher who moans at me every time I go on holiday. However the worst example of an entry an author eanted in a book was 'Margaret Thatcher' (not a political statement on my part; the author wanted it in the index under the first name, not the last!). Best wishes and I hope next week is better! Kim ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:17:19 +0100 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Re: 3 ring binders, was Indexing away from home and work habits In-Reply-To: > The information on 3-hole binders was news to me. I'm always interested in > how other people organize themselves. I usually work right from the loose > proofs on a large desk. The desk is L-shaped, so the computer monitor and > keyboard are on the L. How long do you keep the proofs in the binder? This > method sounds like it works great for book indexes, but what about journal > indexes? Do you 3-hole punch them, too? Or do you just work on them in the > bound form? I have recently started using binders (2-hole) at the editing stage. For with some books, looking up references in loose proofs becomes something like a weightlifting exercise. Putting the proofs in and taking them out is a bind (pun deliberate), but I am not thinking of giving up using binders. How long do they stay in the binders? Too long, really - until I need the binders for another book. I do not use binders for journals. Regards _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 07:23:44 -0500 Reply-To: kspern@bestweb.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Spern Subject: Re: disability insurance In-Reply-To: <199907242325.TAA01742@miro.bestweb.net> Old Codger would you send this to me please. I got you gifts. Thanks! Nude girls with the old codger, well, I never! (wink) Love and kisses - K. Juts says "meow, thanks" she's taking a short nap on my reading stack right now. K. > -----Original Message----- > From: Indexer's Discussion Group > [mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Carol Roberts > Sent: Saturday, July 24, 1999 6:24 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: disability insurance > > > The July issue of _Consumer Reports_ has a good article on disability > insurance, including what kinds of protections a policy > should include and > a worksheet to calculate how much coverage you need. > > Cheers, > > > Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My > indexer@execpc.com | philosophy: No > pain, no pain. > Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer > new Web address to come > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 08:29:48 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: three in one week! In-Reply-To: <93331098101@voyager.together.net> Paula, that's the sort of thing that gives me nighmares. Now, I've been a therapist for 13 years, and I still haven't figured out what makes people think the way they do. What sort of thought processes was the woman who didn't send your ms to arrive on Friday thinking about when she made that decision? Boggling. I got a list of terms for this big book I'm working on, too. It has some amazing things on it and not on it, as well. Each author was asked to go through their chapter and list all the things they thought should be in it. In one list, the author including one item in a list of about 6 diagnoses that were meant as examples, and shouldn't be indexed at all, at least not in that particular context (sometimes I would index everything in a list like that), but why only one of the items? And why an item from that list, but not from any other? And another author wanted one item in a table, but not the content/concept of the table itself, and not anything else in the table. And several authors even put in page numbers, so helpful. Some alphabetized, some not. And to make things even more complicated, this is a re-do of an index they weren't happy with, and so had gone through the first index and indicated the entries they didn't want put in, with no rhyme or reason to that that I can figure out. Several of the crossed out things should be in there, and several things that shouldn't weren't crossed out. I called immediately and said I am just going to have to start from scratch and disregard all the helpful lists becuase otherwise I'll need 2 months to do this. I said, You will just have to trust me. So she said OK, but would I send a sample once I get going (major trusting, sure). I guess that was fair, they got burned before. So I did chap one and sent it, but good goddess, don't we all know that what I did for chap 1 is almost certainly not going to be what the final deal looks like. Oh well. I've got someone coming over on Sunday to see if she wants to do the names for me. She's not an indexer, just a friend who wants some extra money. But I still haven't figured out the best way to handle it. I like the ideas you've all given to type all the names in the field, and then duplicate and cut. It still seems awful. After this I believe I will stick with my how-tos and animal books. Unless this friend likes doing this and will do it again. Maybe she can figure something out. I'll keep you posted. I've kept everyone's suggestions so she and I can try them all. Thanks again! Rae Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric racric ICQ 31476947 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 08:44:58 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kari Miller Subject: Marking pages versus entering directly I'm curious about how many indexers can enter terms directly into their software without having to do page mark-up separately. It would seem to be a great time-saver. I am nowhere near confident enough to do this all the time yet, but I have a book I am currently working on with a very tight deadline and thought it might save me some time on some of the "lighter" chapters. Any tips or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Kari Miller ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 08:55:39 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Marking pages versus entering directly Kari, You have to work the way it is most comfortable for you. This question of marking proof before entering entries -- or not -- has come up before, and people work different ways. It's not a question of confidence. I've been indexing for 25 yrs. I cannot, absolutely cannot work without marking first. I have to be in front of that page proof with red pen in hand, marking. That's when I read well and think well. I can't do it nearly as well when the page proof is propped up in the easel and I'm looking at the monitor. I've tried. I thought as you did -- it would be faster. But it has to do with some neurolinguistic programming thing I guess. Mind works better, faster, when interacting directly with proof, absent computer. Just have to accept that -- for me. See which one is best for you, and go with that. It's an individual thing. Janet Perlman SOUTHWEST INDEXING ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 09:07:14 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: Marking pages versus entering directly At 08:44 AM 7/30/99 -0400, Kari Miller wrote: >I'm curious about how many indexers can enter terms directly into their >software without having to do page mark-up separately. It would seem to >be a great time-saver. I am nowhere near confident enough to do this >all the time yet, but I have a book I am currently working on with a >very tight deadline and thought it might save me some time on some of >the "lighter" chapters. Any tips or suggestions would be greatly >appreciated! Hi Kari, As Janet said so well, it is a matter of individual preference and comfort level. With some books, and only sometimes, it is possible for me to enter terms directly from the page. Some medical books and cookbooks can often bear this sort of approach, and not always. But for most scholarly books, for example, I feel out in left field if I don't read the book first. Lots of reasons, but I feel like I am going into a labyrinth without a map when I don't read the book first. I have tried to do it without marking first, thinking that it would save time, but it never does for me. It actually increases my time on a job not to read the book. Go figure! You need to find your own way to work, and only by trying out different techniques, etc., will you find that way. Cynthia ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen Bertelsen Indexing and Editorial Services Specialities: Food History, Nutrition, Cookbooks, Gastronomy cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.usit.com/cbertel/ Long before institutionalized religions came along--and temples and churches--there was an unquestioned recognition that what goes on in a kitchen is holy. Cooking involves an enormously rich coming together of the fruits of the earth with the inventive genius of the human being. ---Laurel Robertson--- ****************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 09:11:16 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: 3 ring binders, was Indexing away from home and work habits > The information on 3-hole binders was news to me. How long do you keep the proofs in the binder? For the duration of the project only. Once I'm done, and I've shipped the index off (electronically or via overnight shipper), I take the pages out of the binder and store them until I get paid or until the publisher says I can get rid of them. As someone else mentioned, I keep a smaller binder around for transporting a chapter or two to the doctor's office/playground/anywhere I'm going to be sitting waiting. This allows me to mark text without lugging the whole shebang around. Incidentally, I generally remove a chapter at a time to do the actual entry into the computer, since loose pages rest on my copy stand better than a whole binder, especially for a large project. Besides, it's more visually/emotionally satisfying to see the stack of pages reduced by half than by a tiny fraction, even if I know I still have sixteen chapters to go! Emboldened by postings from other indexers, I've recently begun experimenting with entering directly into the computer instead of marking the text first. I still find the 3-ring binder useful for organizing and keeping track of pages, though. Kara Pekar Wordsmith Indexing Services jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 09:05:30 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Becky & Bob Hornyak Subject: Re: three in one week! Paula, Maybe there's something in the air this week. I have been offered three jobs--and had two renege. In three years of indexing, this has never happened to me--and then to have it happen twice in a week. One said that the regular indexer decided to take the job "after all". The other was an email message offering a job that must have been sent to several people at once. (BTW, I did send I message back that it was proper form to offer a job to only one person at a time.) I am consoling myself by saying that at least I ended up on the plus side! Becky Hornyak, Indexer bhornyak@iquest.net -----Original Message----- From: Paula C. Durbin-Westby To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Friday, July 30, 1999 12:03 AM Subject: three in one week! >Really, this is too much! I have three indexing projects before me, each >more egregious than the last! > >The first has a line limit so short that I cannot possibly present the >author's intentions in the index. The point of the book is to introduce >students to the authors, works and concepts in a particular discipline. >There are perhaps ten authors and titles on each page, and several >concepts. To do the index in the allotted space I can only have two >entries per page. When I asked the editor to be sure, I was told, >"Actually we have even less space than that, so keep it short!" > >The second index arrived with a list of terms and concepts to be included. >The list also includes terms NOT to be indexed. The list is not in >alphabetical order and is mostly in order of appearance in the book, but >not necessarily! I have to do a lot of hunting. On the list are a number >of items that are not worthy of being included in the index: "As he was >walking down Main Street, Edison had yet another idea for a lightbulb that >would work." This author would have Main Street in her list (a fictitious >example, to be sure). Several important concepts and persons aren't on the >list at all. I've been told to follow the list. > >Third dumb indexing thing: an author BEGGED me to do her book on a rush >schedule. She really wants it by tomorrow (Friday 30th) but I said the >earliest I could have it was Tuesday the third. The proofs never arrived, >so I finally called her. She was planning to send them Friday (tomorrow) >so I could rearrange my entire weekend, do the index, and have it back to >her by Tuesday at the latest. I politely explained that I was not going to >be here this weekend and that UPS doesn't deliver in my rural area on >Saturday anyway. Talk about wanting it done yesterday! > >I've had unusual and exasperating indexing experiences before, but never >three in one week! > >Happy indexing! > >Paula Durbin-Westby >dwindex@louisa.net > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:04:17 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Marking pages versus entering directly In-Reply-To: <199907300909.rq390u.2hh.37kbi17@mx9.mindspring.com> > At 08:44 AM 7/30/99 -0400, Kari Miller wrote: > >I'm curious about how many indexers can enter terms directly into their > >software without having to do page mark-up separately. It would seem to > >be a great time-saver. I found it to be a time saver during data entry, but a killer during edit. I highlight important topics on the markup pass. During data entry, I check off the highlighted items that actually make it into the index. During edit, I can easily scan the page to find the source of a questionable entry or reassure myself that I have not missed anything on the page. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:35:43 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Elaine R. Firestone" Subject: Re: speaking of laptops and working away In-Reply-To: <199907300404.AAA28220@calval-2.gsfc.nasa.gov> >>Do any of you have any opinions of the logic of this? Is it a waste of >>$170, or is it a golden opp, not to be passed by. >> > Golden opp, Rachel. They're also great as a backup: if your hard drive gets > fried, if there's a thunderstorm the day before your deadline, etc. Just be > sure that the old model you buy will do what you want to do a year or two > from now. ;-) Although, $300 is such a good price, you still wouldn't be > throwing your money away even if you have to upgrade eventually, IMO. I'm > not familiar with the 170, but I have a Powerbook, too. I adore my laptop > and have used it in all kinds of whacky situations (e.g., sitting through > my daughter's gymnastics lessons). I didn't see the original message on this one, but I can offer some good advice... DON'T get a PowerBook 170. I had one. This particular Macintosh laptop, although a super computer in its day, is long past the point of running today's software packages. The hard drive is miniscule (somewhere's around 20--40 MB) as is the RAM, and unless your computing requirements are very simple, such as basic text editing, it won't do what your regular computer will do. Depending on the size of your basic application, it can't have two separate applications running at the same time, such as Word and Excel unless they are very old versions. They also aren't upgradable. There are also compatibility issues involved. I won't go into detail, but if you have a newer desktop Mac running MacOS 8.0, but have old software, you are going to run into significant problems because 8.0 doesn't run well (if at all) with old versions. If you are looking for just a backup capability, invest in a zip or jazz drive. If you are truly looking for laptop, go to an authorized Apple dealer and see what they have in different price ranges. They may even have some used models for sale. Someone mentioned an ironclad guarantee. They only ones who are going to give that to you are established businesses, not individuals. I know $300 sounds so good for a computer, but take the money and invest it in a laptop that will do you some good and will last you a few years. Hope this helps. Elaine Elaine R. Firestone, ELS elaine@seawifs.gsfc.nasa.gov ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:20:06 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" Subject: Re: Marking pages versus entering directly I rarely mark up entries even for scholarly books. It just takes too much time. The only time I mark up entries is when I am away from the computer on a trip, or if I just can't stand to be in the house anymore and don't want to drag the computer outside. Because I work quicky on each book, or perhaps because my short term memory is pretty good up to a point, if I think I've missed something, I usually think something like, "Gee that was around page 43," or "that was near the reference to Max Weber," or whatever. I make notes in the entry such as: "(mentioned twice earlier, Go GET!)" and go back to find the two references when I'm done with that chapter. I seem to find the things I think I've missed. If I remember there being three, there usually are three, and I decide at that point whether I didn't put them in the first time because they were unimportant. Paula dwindex@louisa.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:15:53 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Annette Young Subject: About FreeAgent.com Hi all, A friend of mine, who is a freelancer in technical writing, had this to say about FreeAgent.com. Annette ------------------------------------ FreeAgent.com is a legit business...I've gotten solicitations from them via "spam". I'd assume that his number was given to them from one of his colleagues, or that they did obtain it from purchasing a list he was on or using some sort of bot to scope out "freelance" and contact information from his site/listing. Also, it's quite normal for telephone solicitors to only give you a first name, and a false first name at that! Simply have him tell them, like any unwanted phone/spam solicitors, to "remove his contact information from their database". Record the date/time you made the request to the company so if they don't comply you can take actions, if needed. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 17:24:45 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Marking pages versus entering directly Kari wrote: << I'm curious about how many indexers can enter terms directly into their software without having to do page mark-up separately. >> I work in this way (and I agree with Janet and Cynthia that it's a matter of preference and personal style). I've tried both ways and when I try to write on the pages or even read the book first, I find myself impatient to record the insights I'm having directly in the index. Even when I assume that reading an extremely complex book first will save me time when I go to index it, it takes the same amount of time (though I do read ahead sometimes to build confidence when I'm scared of a complex book). Something about my personality, I guess! My method is to tick off words in the text that relate to the topic I'm indexing. Every entry I make will have a tick mark associated with it. Proper names, of course, are obvious; conceptual entries will often have a tick mark on a word that means that concept to me. I find that when I look back at the page I can tell what I indexed by the tick marks. I do think you have to have some confidence to use this method, because you have to know that you'll be able to tell what you indexed just from a tick mark through a word. I would recommend trying it and seeing what you think. Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 16:42:04 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Schroeder Subject: Re: British publications I have received the copies of Hazel Bell's Indexing Biographies from England. Please send a check for $28 or a note authorizing a charge, with your charge number, expiration date and signature to Sandi Schroeder, 2606 Old Mill Lane, Rolling Meadows, IL, 60008. When I receive payment, I will drop the publication in the mail. If you no longer want it, please let me know. Sandi Schroeder president, ASI -----Original Message----- From: Betty Frizzell To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Monday, June 21, 1999 10:25 AM Subject: Re: British publications >Hi Sandi- > >I would be interested in getting Hazel Bell's publication. > >--Betty Frizzell >Frizzell Indexing Service >frizzell@wolfenet.com >----- Original Message ----- >From: Sandi Schroeder >To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L >Sent: Sunday, June 20, 1999 6:13 AM >Subject: British publications > > >> I have a few copies of the following British publications available for >> sale. >> >> Indexing the medical and Biological Science by Blake et al. $30 >> >> Indexing Legal Materials by Moys $25.00 >> >> >> Several people have inquired about the availability of Indexing >Biographies >> by Hazel Bell. If there was enough interest, I would try to obtain >> additional copies. Ther would be for sale at around $27. If you are >> interested, please let me know. >> >> >> Sandi Schroeder >> President, ASI >> > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 16:46:07 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Schroeder Subject: Re: British publications I have received the copies of Hazel Bell's Indexing Biographies from England. Please send a check for $28 or a note authorizing a charge, with your charge number, expiration date and signature to Sandi Schroeder, 2606 Old Mill Lane, Rolling Meadows, IL, 60008. When I receive payment, I will drop the publication in the mail. If you no longer want it, please let me know. Sandi Schroeder president, ASI -----Original Message----- From: Manjit Sahai To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Monday, June 21, 1999 10:36 AM Subject: Re: British publications >Hi Sandy > >I would also be interested in buying 'Indexing Biographies' by Hazel Bell. > >MANJIT K. SAHAI > > >>From: Sandi Schroeder >>Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group >>To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L >> >>Subject: British publications >>Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 08:13:45 -0500 >> >>I have a few copies of the following British publications available for >>sale. >> >>Indexing the medical and Biological Science by Blake et al. $30 >> >>Indexing Legal Materials by Moys $25.00 >> >> >>Several people have inquired about the availability of Indexing >>Biographies >>by Hazel Bell. If there was enough interest, I would try to obtain >>additional copies. Ther would be for sale at around $27. If you are >>interested, please let me know. >> >> >>Sandi Schroeder >>President, ASI > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 16:48:11 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Schroeder Subject: Re: British publications I have received the copies of Hazel Bell's Indexing Biographies from England. Please send a check for $28 or a note authorizing a charge, with your charge number, expiration date and signature to Sandi Schroeder, 2606 Old Mill Lane, Rolling Meadows, IL, 60008. When I receive payment, I will drop the publication in the mail. If you no longer want it, please let me know. Sandi Schroeder president, ASI -----Original Message----- From: Paula C. Durbin-Westby To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Monday, June 21, 1999 10:48 AM Subject: Re: British publications >Please add me to your list of people interested in Hazel Bell's book. I >tried to order it through my local B&N and they said it was not available; >I am hoping to hear from you. > >Paula Durbin-Westby >dwindex@louisa.net > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 17:12:24 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Landeen Subject: Re: indexing rates I am a new indexer and was happy to get my first book, and felt fortunate that it was within seven months of starting in the process. When I was offered $2.25 per page I agreed because of the topic of the book, which is not complicated, pleasant to read and easy to index. I have been able to index 35 pages an hour, which when I double the indexing time to include editing time nets me $39.50 per hour. Why should I say no to a low dollar per page rate when my per hour rate is so high? I want to always be paid a fair wage for my work and this rate per hour seems quite tidy. >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 10:25:27 -0600 >From: Nina Forrest >Subject: Re: Indexing rates > >The temptation for a new indexer is to do an index for whatever rate the >publisher proposes. Because I had read previous discussions on Index-L, I >decided that I would not work for less than $3.00 even for my first index. >So if the subject of rates came up when I was cold calling publishers, I >stated this. And several times I was told that they never go higher than >$2.xx per page, and I politely nixed that possibility. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 18:04:33 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Landeen Subject: Re: first contacts and hole punches Sonsie, You write that most of your first contacts now come through email. Is that you soliciting the publisher or the publisher (who must know your impeccable reputation) soliciting you? (I wonder is soliciting the best word to use, well anyway...) Also on the subject of hole punches... I have an electric and boy is it great! great! great! Did I mention I liked it? Cynthia Landeen Indextrous ********************** ->Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 15:34:30 -0700 >From: Sonsie Conroy >Subject: Re: Toll-Free Telephone Numbers >Personally, I wouldn't bother. My long distance business phone bill has >steadily decreased over the past few years due to the advent of email, and >I'm sure most of the publishers I work for have found the same thing. I >would say that 50% of my first contacts now come through email, and >virtually all the remaining communication gets handled that way. It's been >at least a couple of years since I ran into a publisher/editor who did not >have an email address or web page. > Sonsie > sconroy@slonet.org > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 11:28:49 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: karen true Subject: Part-time Job Postings This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_49d6e3c4_7a84adec$3eb96d74 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_61fff62e_7a84adec$3eb96d74" ------=_NextPart_001_61fff62e_7a84adec$3eb96d74 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi, A friend of mind who does indexing as a full-time job gave me some information regarding some part-time job postings. One was for a Medical Transcriptionist. These were job postings from OBGYN.net. Attached is my resume for your review. I am very much interested and would like further information regarding same. I would appreciate hearing from you as soon as you receive my e-mail. Thankyou! Sincerely, Karen True _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------=_NextPart_001_61fff62e_7a84adec$3eb96d74 Content-type: text/html
Hi,

A friend of mind who does indexing as a full-time job gave me some information regarding some part-time job postings.  One was for a Medical Transcriptionist.  These were job postings from OBGYN.net.

Attached is my resume for your review.  I am very much interested and would like further information regarding same.  I would appreciate hearing from you as soon as you receive my e-mail.

Thankyou!

Sincerely,

Karen True

Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit www.msn.com
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From: Jacqueline Janezic Subject: Re: Laptop Ergonomics I hope it is not inappropriate to mention brand names on this list. Levenger has an adjustable desk for laptops. It is not cheap, but can be adjusted for height as well as worksurface angle. I believe they also have a contoured board that you can set on your lap or on an armchair. Kensington also has a paper stand about the size of a plum which is fully portable and can hold up to 15 pages at a time. Once I started indexing on my PowerBook, I never used my desktop computer again. I seem to work faster and can take it anywhere. Jackie *********************************** Jacqueline Salzman Janezic BookWorm Indexing Services bookwm@en.com 330-562-4906 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 17:49:16 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: first contacts and hole punches At 06:04 PM 7/30/99 -0700, Cynthia Landeen wrote: >Sonsie, >You write that most of your first contacts now come through email. Is that >you soliciting the publisher or the publisher (who must know your impeccable >reputation) soliciting you? (I wonder is soliciting the best word to use, >well anyway...) I don't generally try to get work through email contacts...at least, I don't make the FIRST contact via email. What happens lately is that I will get an email message from an editor or publisher who has gotten my name from somebody (or somewhere), and asks if I'm available for a job. Or a steady customer will contact me that way about an upcoming index. I still believe in good old paper and telephone for the all-important first impressions, though email is a godsend when you have established a relationship. Impeccable??? You haven't seen my office lately! Sonsie sconroy@slonet.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 22:28:21 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" Subject: Re: first contacts and hole punches Ditto Sonsie, for what's happening in my email life. I get emails from people I don't know, but it's always via someone I DO know. I rarely send my resume via email, usually only after a contact has been established. Paula dwindex@louisa.net > (Sonsie's comments:) > I don't generally try to get work through email contacts...at least, I don't > make the FIRST contact via email. What happens lately is that I will get an > email message from an editor or publisher who has gotten my name from > somebody (or somewhere), and asks if I'm available for a job. Or a steady > customer will contact me that way about an upcoming index. > > I still believe in good old paper and telephone for the all-important first > impressions, though email is a godsend when you have established a relationship. > > Impeccable??? You haven't seen my office lately! > > Sonsie > sconroy@slonet.org