Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9903D" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 07:12:13 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: TennWords@AOL.COM Subject: Mar/Apr Issue of TennWords Good Morning to All! The Mar/Apr issue of "TennWords," the online newsletter of the Tennessee Regional Group of ASI, has been uploaded to our web site. This month's issue contains: Y2K: Are you at Higher Risk by Dawn Spencer (just in time!) Business Cards: A book review by Melinda Davis, and the Answer Guru tackles a business card question And don't miss our Spring Salad extravaganza Our web site is at: http://members.aol.com/tennwords/home.html We hope you will come by to visit us! As always, we keep the cyber-coffee hot.... Dawn Spencer indexlady@aol.com Contact for the Tennessee Regional Group of the American Society of Indexers tennwords@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:34:49 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Deborah Patton Subject: DC Chapter meeting April 24 The Washington DC Chapter of ASI will meet to discuss the Index Process, Saturday, April 24th at AlignMark, (1340 Braddock Place, Suite 200) in Alexandria, VA beginning at 9:30 am. Our speaker will be Alexandra Nickerson who's been freelance indexing from an office outside her home since 1986. For those of us with home offices, we want to know why she finds this arrangement to be cost-effective. We'll also talk about office technology, billing, and a variety of other related topics. We should be done by noon. Alexandra specializes in medical and health-related materials and also indexes software applications books, cookbooks, and textbooks. She's been indexing since 1965. In addition, she is an instructor for the U.S. Department of Agriculture Graduate School basic indexing course. The cost is $15. To register, please send a check made out to DC/ASI to Deborah Patton 1301 W. 42nd Street Baltimore, MD 21211-1508 Questions? 410/243-4688 Directions: By Metro: From Braddock Line Road Metro Station (Blue/Yellow Line), AlignMark is a 2-minute walk. As you exit the station, look left for the brick Braddock Place Arch. Go through the arch and across the plaza to #1340 at the far end. By car: Take Route 1 or the George Washington Memorial (Washington Street) to Alexandria. From the north, turn right onto Madison; from the south turn left onto Madison. Proceed west. Turn right on Fayette, then left onto Braddock Place. Parking: From the Braddock Place cul-de-sac, pass the underground parking entrance and turn right into the entrance marked "hourly parking." Proceed down the drive and park in spaces behind #1340. Alternatively, street parking is available on Fayette, First, and Payne. This is our last meeting for 1998-1999, so the next meeting for our chapter won't be untill the fall. Hope to see you in April, Deborah ============================== Deborah E. Patton, Freelance Indexer Vice Chair, Washington, DC Chapter of ASI Baltimore, MD, USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:30:48 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Cohen Subject: Condolences for M. Towery I'm posting this here because I thought that some indexers out there would like to know, in order to send condolence cards: Margie Towery's oldest daughter, Sarah, and Sarah's boyfriend were killed this weekend in a head-on collision with a pickup truck driver (who was fiddling with his cell phone and lost control of his vehicle). At this point, all I know is that services are in Springfield, IL, on Wednesday. I don't know exactly where or what time. Apparently Margie and Dan, her husband, were driving immediately ahead of them and saw the accident. I'm afraid that this is all the information I have about it at this time. I'm sure it would mean a lot to Margie to receive cards from her colleagues at this tragic time. Barbara E. Cohen Indianapolis, IN ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:42:34 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary Mortensen Subject: ASI Kansas-Missouri Group Spring Meeting American Society of Indexers Kansas-Missouri Group SPRING MEETING Saturday, April 17, 1999 1:00 - 5:00 pm Lawrence Public Library Gallery meeting room 707 Vermont St. Lawrence, Kansas TOPICS Indexing Exercise Marketing Roundtable Resume/card exchange For more details and directions, contact Mary Mortensen at marymort@aol.com or 785-841-3631. We would like to know how many will attend so we can bring enough copies of our resumes and cards, and you need to know the details to prepare your index for the exercise. Non-ASI members are welcome. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:55:59 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kari Miller Subject: Multi-Author Text Questions Hello to all! I am seeking some advice from indexers with experience with multi-author texts. The editor assured me that although there were 20 authors and 16 articles, the book had a very common theme and should not be difficult to index. However, upon receiving the material, I immediately felt as if I had taken on much more than I could handle. The common theme is African American women's activism from the 1960s to the 1990s; however, the articles are as diverse as autobiographical accounts to studies of Black women in Congress to a study of an anonymous grass roots group in an unnamed city! My questions are: 1) The audience for this book will be very large, from students to historians to the general public. I have tried to find common terminology (abortion, health care, etc) and tried to use these as a structure. However, I find myself (and the index) bogged down in more headings than seems necessary. In fact, the articles are only about 20 pages, and I'm not sure there is even a need for an index, although the editor and publisher definitely want one. How in depth do I go with the articles? In other words, if there is a lot of specific information in one article that is never mentioned elsewhere in the book, do I need to include it? 2) Along those lines, I am ending up with the article title as a main heading, and then subheadings that pretty much go page-by-page, and this seems useless to me. (Again, I feel that if a reader is needing info on the Black Panther Party, he or she should just read the 15 page article) However, in trying to keep the infrastructure intact, are they necessary? I guess what is boils down to is this...how in depth should I try to go? I have consulted Mulvany but found no specific guidelines. I have a lot more specific questions, but some may be answered by these responses! Thanks! Kari Miller Southern Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:25:52 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: payment rant alert In-Reply-To: Is anyone besides me noticing a trend toward later and later payment? My cash flow is starting to suck. I have one client who used to pay in about 3-4 weeks who now says it's going to be standard 60 days because they don't get paid by their vendors. And I have another whose average is 5 months and when he called for an assignment last week I said I wouldn't work for him anymore unless he can pay in 30-60 days or pay finance charges after that. Haven't heard back from him. And this is one of my favorite and best clients and I felt I had to do this. And another company I just did a first assignment for who said right up front they pay at 90 days but once they get to know an indexer and like them, sometimes they can slide it in sooner. What is that about? They currently owe me nearly 2 grand which would be nice to have as I haven't registered for Indy nor gotten a plane ticket yet because I don't have in my hand close to 4 grand that I'm owed. This is starting to really bug me. And I also find I'm nearly always always having to start calling most of them at 30 or 60 days and harassing politely in order to get paid at all. I feel like hiring someone to do collections. I get calls from people I owe money to and I have to back pedal them the same way I get back pedaled from my clients. No one the world economy is in such a state. Or is it? I don't know. Maybe it's stable for all I know. Maybe we don't owe 50 billion anymore. What do I know about economics. Lately I've picked up work from 3 or 4 authors I haven't worked with before and I'm sending contracts requiring 1/3 in advance and the balance 15 days after delivery and finance charges after 30 days, and not starting work unless I get the contract and the 1/3. And yes, I do also put a "kill fee" clause into that contract which reads that I get 1/3 on a killed assignment even if I haven't started the work, and I get my per page rate for any work I've already done at the time of cancellation, and I get full fee if it's cancelled after I submit it. So far in, what, 3 or 4 years now I've never had a job killed but I no longer trust to chance. Now I just got a ms with no contract or check with it, even though I sent the contract, so I have to decide whether to go ahead and start without it (I can't afford to let it lie as I have 2 other jobs coming in this week) or to stand my ground. This seems only to be happening to me recently. If I didn't have my job, I'd be in serious financial trouble. It's what is keeping me from daring to go to full time freelancing. Anyway, that's my Happy Thoughts for the day. Not. Rachel Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric racric ICQ 31476947 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:05:30 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: larryNOSPAMh@MILLCOMM.COM Subject: Re: Y2K and Indexing Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne (jonjermey@HERMES.NET.AU) wrote: >... I am handling the scenario by >ignoring it when I can and suppressing others' hysteria and panic when I >can't... I agree that hysteria and panic are not justified; in fact I have come to believe that hysteria and panic will be the true causes of any "Y2K" disasters in the U.S. (if they happen). I don't know enough about the situation elsewhere to guess. My own view is neither on the "bug believer" side nor on the "nothing will happen" side. This is one of those situations that poses real danger if ignored, but is ameliorated if attention is paid and actions taken. Thus, people who shout loud enough to get the attention of those who need to take action may look like fools if the problems are fixed; but had they not done so, serious problems would have occurred. This is one important reason why the actual events cannot be predicted: the outcome depends on actions yet to be decided on, and taken, by thousands of people. I'm glad it's getting publicity, because some city mayor or fire chief may decide to look into it and avoid trouble. Our local government just finished a new building housing city/county offices and the local jail. When the clock was advanced to 1/1/2000 in Y2K testing, the exterior doors time-locked (no one knows when they would have unlocked in real life) and the HVAC (heating/ventilation/air conditioning) system shut off completely. These were brand-new computer-controlled systems, and the PCs doing the controlling were not compliant. Had the building been 20 years old, nothing would have gone wrong. And then Charles Anderson (c.anderson.seattle@WORLDNET.ATT.NET) wrote: >...The best course, IMHO, as others have suggested, is to take the same >kind of preparations as for a major snowstorm or hurricane. There's not >a lot of other things we can do about the larger problems. I do wish the U.S. TV networks would follow a more balanced and informative line instead of focusing on crashing planes and survivalist systems programmers. Banks, regional utilities, airlines and the federal government are doing all they can, and I don't expect disastrous problems in those areas. What mass media could do is spread the word that the action now needs to be in each state and local community. Local services such as water, sewer treatment, small natural gas and electric utilities, 911 response, fire and police (equipment and communications), hospitals (medical devices and monitors), and traffic control devices (signals and railroad crossing gates) all may depend on PC's or embedded microprocessors ("programmable logic controllers") and need to be evaluated. Here's what you can do: call or write your local officials and ask about their Y2K testing, remediation schedule and contingency plans. If they mention the embedded systems, you can relax a bit. If they just talk about computers that do administrative stuff like writing checks and accounting for tax collections, you may have a problem that needs attention. Larry Harrison [spam-proof return address; remove NOSPAM to reply to me directly] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:11:05 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Multi-Author Text Questions Kari, I'd suggest indexing this text just as you do any other book, that is, at the same level of detail and with the same attention to subject matter. 1. Given your audience, you should probably be in the range of six to ten references or so per page. 2. Be sure to use appropriate subheadings for information, even if those subheadings are only the subheadings in the text. For instance, there should certainly be more detailed information on the Black Panthers than just a range of fifteen pages. 3. Because this is a multi-author work, you will need to discover terminological connections. That means using lots of see also references or collecting similar information under a single heading and using see references from the unused headings. 4. Twenty-page articles are not that much different than twenty-page chapters. Terminology really is the major problem. 5. Because you are dealing with a number of specific topics within the overall theme, you might very well have a larger than usual number of headings. Don't worry, that's what the text calls for. I'd be glad to give you additional information if you'd like to contact me directly. Fred Leise Between the Lines Indexing and Editorial Services In a message dated 99-03-22 10:57:53 EST, karimiller@gw.total-web.net writes: > My questions are: > > 1) The audience for this book will be very large, from students to > historians to the general public. I have tried to find common > terminology (abortion, health care, etc) and tried to use these as a > structure. However, I find myself (and the index) bogged down in more > headings than seems necessary. In fact, the articles are only about 20 > pages, and I'm not sure there is even a need for an index, although the > editor and publisher definitely want one. How in depth do I go with the > articles? In other words, if there is a lot of specific information in > one article that is never mentioned elsewhere in the book, do I need to > include it? > > 2) Along those lines, I am ending up with the article title as a main > heading, and then subheadings that pretty much go page-by-page, and this > seems useless to me. (Again, I feel that if a reader is needing info on > the Black Panther Party, he or she should just read the 15 page > article) However, in trying to keep the infrastructure intact, are they > necessary? > > I guess what is boils down to is this...how in depth should I try to > go? I have consulted Mulvany but found no specific guidelines. > > I have a lot more specific questions, but some may be answered by these > responses! > > Thanks! > Kari Miller > Southern Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:40:57 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Paul Kish Subject: Re: payment rant alert In-Reply-To: <199903221610.IAA12031@dns1.mcn.org> At 10:25 AM 3/22/99 -0500, you wrote: >Is anyone besides me noticing a trend toward later and later payment? My >cash flow is starting to suck. Rachel, IMHO, you need some new clients right away. Since you've been working for several years, you ought to have enough juice in your references to get jobs with publishers who pay on time. You're just dragging out the misery, trying to enfore behavior mod on your stingy clients. Best to dump 'em, I say. Even better, consider posting them on this list, so that other's following you won't get stung. Best of luck, and don't be afraid of self-promotion. You deserve better. Paul Kish Kish Indexing Service Sonoma County, CA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:48:32 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: Multi-Author Text Questions In-Reply-To: <199903221606.IAA04195@decibel.electriciti.com> First. Yes, it needs an index.I find your questions confusing. I am (not all that happily) stuck mainly with multiple-author books. They are always a chore. I index each chapter as competently as possible and keep track of common names and threads, combining terms when possible. Seach facility of Cindex makes this relatively simple. Please appreciate that the final form and editing may resolve what appears to be a morrass at middpoint. MAINLY. Any work with information a reader would want to retrieve needs an index. I did once convince a publisher not to have an index for a dictionary, in which the author's requirrements would have lead to as situation such as: any, 1 boy, 2 cat, 3 and so on. Clearly a reader who could alphabetize could find anything. PLEASE, publishers are trying to cut corners and eliminate indexes. When indexers begin to cut their own throats, it is serious. Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:02:37 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Back Words Indexing Subject: Re: Condolences for M. Towery - SnailMail address In-Reply-To: <627792ee.36f66228@aol.com> Margie's snail mail address is 40 Paradise Court, Lafayette, Indiana 47905-8758 Barbara wrote >I'm posting this here because I thought that some indexers out there would >like to know, in order to send condolence cards: > >Margie Towery's oldest daughter, Sarah, and Sarah's boyfriend were killed this >weekend in a head-on collision with a pickup truck driver (who was fiddling >with his cell phone and lost control of his vehicle). At this point, all I >know is that services are in Springfield, IL, on Wednesday. I don't know >exactly where or what time. Apparently Margie and Dan, her husband, were driving >immediately ahead of them and saw the accident. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:09:01 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Robin Hilp Subject: Re: FW: (fwd) OT: FYI: NO InterNet Telephone Charges >Reciprocal compensation is not paid by consumers or >by Internet service providers. There is, however, something called "peering" which is beginning to involve money rather than barter. Therefore the FCC is keeping a weather eye on it. For more info, browse to http://www.whatis.com/ and look up "peering". == RolyBear ICQ 1863181 (Robin Hilp) _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:08:54 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: Re: payment rant alert I don't think Rachel's problem is new, although waiting more than 90 days for pay seems way too long. Starting to call after a month, and calling a lot after two months, is a classic technique that sometimes helps--sometimes not. I always figured I was ok if I had $3000 in receivables. The danger is going into debt and then using up the money when it finally comes in to pay for expenses you've already incurred, which leaves you empty-handed again. I advise caution until the cash flow evens itself out--if you always have receivables, eventually you receive. There's a lot to be said for a regular paycheck, even if it's small. Good luck, Elinor Elinor Lindheimer Mendocino, CA 95460 elinorl@mcn.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:19:54 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: payment rant alert Rachel, I couldn't agree more with Paul. New clients is the answer. You can't make your existing clients change. It doesn't pay to engage in a power struggle with a client. You won't win. Unfortunately, we, the indexers, are replaceable. The client has the power here (ie, the money!). I wouldn't waste effort trying to enforce *my* rules. You've stated what you want and expect. If they're business-like, they'll see that you are not unreasonable in your requests. Go elsewhere if they are uncooperative.. The answer is market, market, market! The best clients for us are those who are businesslike in paying their freelancers. Cherish them, work hard for them, and don't waste too much effort trying to change the ones who don't treat us well. Sounds harsh, but it's my experience, born out of many years in this business. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:43:14 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: Y2K and Indexing Most of what I would have said has been said, and said better, by Larry and several other people. I just want to add something about systems elsewhere: Much of the manufacturing and retailing done here and abroad is based on "just-in-time" delivery of raw materials, supplies, and products. Ordering and inventory control are handled by computer. While I suspect many American, Japanese, and Western European firms are well aware of the need for Y2K compliance, in many other parts of the world, they are only just beginning to look at the problem. There probably isn't time -- and in many cases, there isn't enough money -- to fix all the Y2K-related problems in those countries. If foreign suppliers aren't able to fill orders or ship materials or products due to their own Y2K failures, it will have a negative impact on both manufacturing and retail sales here. I'm no economist; I don't know if it would be enough to cause a recession. I'm not really worried about running out of necessities here, either. But I do suspect we may see price increases and shortages of some goods, or a longer wait to get them than we enjoy now. What's that got to do with indexing? Make sure you're compliant well ahead of time! I wouldn't want to be fighting through the crowds at Best Buy or CompUSA on January 2, trying to buy a new computer/modem/printer/what have you! Even assuming best-case scenario, lots of people's home computers are going to fail. And "just-in-time" ordering -- even without complications from suppliers -- isn't going to be able to keep up with demand, IMO. Kara Pekar Wordsmith Indexing Services jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:49:12 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: payment rant alert Rachel, I agree with Janet and the others who told you to look for new clients. My clients all pay within 30 days, more or less--at least that's what they agree to, and sometimes they slip. I've taken to calling them right before 30 days to make sure the check is on the way--that sometimes speeds things up. When talking to a new client, I always say, "the usual standard in this industry is that you pay me within 30 days of receiving the index, and that is what I will expect." I once had an established client tell me that they weren't going to be able to guarantee 30 days. This was a university press, and the accounts payable department was slow. I raised a stink with accounts payable, asking to bill them before I sent the index. They said absolutely not. I told them to check with the managing editor. I got a phone call the next day telling me I had permission to bill before finishing the index. The managing editor valued me enough to railroad that through. When I work directly for authors, I ask them to pay me 50% up front (on reception of page proofs) and the other 50% in 30 days. No complaints about this so far. That way, even if the second half is late (as it sometimes is with authors), I've evened out my cash flow. Good luck! Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:48:43 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Suellen Kasoff Subject: Re: Condolences for M. Towery Can we have Margie's address? Suellen On Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:30:48 EST Barbara Cohen writes: >I'm posting this here because I thought that some indexers out there >would >like to know, in order to send condolence cards: > >Margie Towery's oldest daughter, Sarah, and Sarah's boyfriend were >killed this >weekend in a head-on collision with a pickup truck driver (who was >fiddling >with his cell phone and lost control of his vehicle). At this point, >all I >know is that services are in Springfield, IL, on Wednesday. I don't >know >exactly where or what time. > >Apparently Margie and Dan, her husband, were driving immediately ahead >of them >and saw the accident. > >I'm afraid that this is all the information I have about it at this >time. > >I'm sure it would mean a lot to Margie to receive cards from her >colleagues at >this tragic time. > >Barbara E. Cohen >Indianapolis, IN > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:55:27 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: ROBJRICH@AOL.COM Subject: Y2K and Indexing: The Final Word All - After exhaustive technical analysis and consultation with experts, the consensus on the effect of Y2K on indexing is this: 1. Y2K compliance is intrinsically irrelevant to existing indexing programs. Because the Y2K problem does not occur in these programs, they cannot be made Y2K compliant. 2. The fact that these programs cannot be made Y2K-compliant because they are unaffected by the Y2K problem is a serious deficiency in this software, and understandably is causing great anxiety in the indexing community. 3. Indexers immediately must ask their indexing software vendors to rewrite these programs to use a two-digit date field. This will introduce a significant Y2K problem in these hitherto-unaffected programs, and will render them non-compliant. That will bring them comfortably within the mainstream of worldwide non-compliant software, and reassure indexers that they are not second-class citizens dealing with legacy software that doesn't share the common Y2K problem. 4. These revised indexing programs then can, with considerable effort, be made Y2K-compliant. This will remove from the indexing community the nagging suspicion that they are culturally-deprived and are not in the mainstream of the Y2K brouhaha.. 4. If these steps are not taken, at 12:00 midnight on 31 December 1999 all page locators ending in "00" will be changed to "1900", and all computer-based indexing programs will turn into shoeboxes filled with 3x5 cards. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:11:45 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Cohen Subject: Re: Condolences for M. Towery If anyone else wants details about the funeral, I can let them know if they contact me personally by e-mail or phone (317-359-1219). I think that some people are planning to send flowers. I spoke to a friend of Margie's in Springfield this morning, and I don't think exact plans had been made yet. As far as I can piece together, the accident happened yesterday, while Margie and Dan were out with Sarah and Chip (I think that was her boyfriend's name), on their way to do some hiking, driving in separate cars. Chip was killed instantly and Sarah died later at the hospital. No word on the cell-phoning truck driver. Barbara E. Cohen Indianapolis, IN ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:17:07 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Cohen Subject: Margie's contact info Please send your cards to Margie at: Margie Towery 40 Paradise Court Lafayette, IN 47905-8758 Her husband's name is Dan and her surviving daughter's name is Lisa. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:17:51 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kate Welsh Subject: Re: Condolences for M. Towery - be kind, no e-mail cards In-Reply-To: <19990322180524Z41049-3765+62@edtnps03.telusplanet.net> I was so sorry to hear of Margie's loss. Please, anyone, if you are tempted to send her an Internet card at this time, don't. I received some last year, during a difficult time for me. They are a bother to open and view, and quite unsatisfactory emotionally. They're OK for birthdays or fun announcements, but definitely NOT good for condolences. Regular mail is the way to go. Kate Kate Welsh, BA(English), LLB kwelsh@planet.eon.net Indexing - Research - Substantive editing - Stylistic editing - Writing Briefs - Legal materials - Manuals - Plain language materials - Policies -----Original Message----- From: Indexer's Discussion Group [mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Back Words Indexing Sent: Monday, March 22, 1999 11:03 AM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: Re: Condolences for M. Towery - SnailMail address Margie's snail mail address is 40 Paradise Court, Lafayette, Indiana 47905-8758 Barbara wrote >I'm posting this here because I thought that some indexers out there would >like to know, in order to send condolence cards: > >Margie Towery's oldest daughter, Sarah, and Sarah's boyfriend were killed this >weekend in a head-on collision with a pickup truck driver (who was fiddling >with his cell phone and lost control of his vehicle). At this point, all I >know is that services are in Springfield, IL, on Wednesday. I don't know >exactly where or what time. Apparently Margie and Dan, her husband, were driving >immediately ahead of them and saw the accident. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:27:22 -0500 Reply-To: varney@mindspring.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: J Flenner Subject: Re: Condolences for M. Towery I believe this is an article/photo about the accident (the driver of the pick-up died), altho' there are no names in the article. http://www.jconline.com/news/news0322/0322l01.html Any words I might have would be inadequate. Jackie Flenner Midnight Sun Indexing & Proofreading ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:38:40 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Judith W. Kip" Subject: Re: pay rant A publisher for whom I have never worked contacted me for the fir= st time last week. The editor had a book she was able to pay 1.50/page fo= r and, when questioned, said they paid in 60 days. I did the only sane thi= ng and said I could not possible index a book (which contained some Hebrew even!) under those conditions. The only way to control cash flow is to decline jobs which by intuition or experience are not going to pay promptly. Heaven knows there are enough glitches in the free lance business without starting from an untenable position. That said, a happy ending story seems appropriate. About four years ago I did six or eight indexes in about six months for several editors at a new (to me) publisher. It became apparent that they would b= e slow to pay me (at 60 days the accounts payable department knew nothing about me). I very nicely but firmly told the editor I was currently working on a book for that I could not possibly send the index until I ha= d been paid for the two books that were past 60 days. I was promptly paid for the past due invoices and for the index I was "holding." (I still g= ot the index to them before its deadline.) That happened twice before I learned my lesson and declined further work from them. Just too much aggravation. The happy ending part is that one of the editors I worked with there left shortly after this episode and has called me ever since from her new publisher -- and they are very reputable and prompt to pay. = = I also work for two publishers who pay me slightly less per page than I usually charge. But their books are easy to index and my hourly rate is as good as (sometimes better than) my norm. AND they both pay i= n 10 to 14 days. They are worth their weight in gold to me. Judy Kip ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:09:18 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Sweeney Subject: Re: Y2K and Indexing: The Final Word Wonderful! I passed this on to friends and family who enjoyed (and circulated) the earlier Y2K memo about months (sorry I can't attribute memo to proper source, but it was well received by grad students and college administrators in my immediate family. My grad student son reports that it is now on the bulletin board in his academic computing center.) A little humor will get us through! Sharon Sweeney Hohner Word Design ssweeney@midusa.net ROBJRICH@AOL.COM wrote: > All - > > After exhaustive technical analysis and consultation with experts, the > consensus on the effect of Y2K on indexing is this: > > 1. Y2K compliance is intrinsically irrelevant to existing indexing programs. > Because the Y2K problem does not occur in these programs, they cannot be made > Y2K compliant. > > 2. The fact that these programs cannot be made Y2K-compliant because they are > unaffected by the Y2K problem is a serious deficiency in this software, and > understandably is causing great anxiety in the indexing community. > > 3. Indexers immediately must ask their indexing software vendors to rewrite > these programs to use a two-digit date field. This will introduce a > significant Y2K problem in these hitherto-unaffected programs, and will render > them non-compliant. That will bring them comfortably within the mainstream of > worldwide non-compliant software, and reassure indexers that they are not > second-class citizens dealing with legacy software that doesn't share the > common Y2K problem. > > 4. These revised indexing programs then can, with considerable effort, be > made Y2K-compliant. This will remove from the indexing community the nagging > suspicion that they are culturally-deprived and are not in the mainstream of > the Y2K brouhaha.. > > 4. If these steps are not taken, at 12:00 midnight on 31 December 1999 all > page locators ending in "00" will be changed to "1900", and all computer-based > indexing programs will turn into shoeboxes filled with 3x5 cards. > > Bob ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 16:28:08 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kari Miller Subject: Multi-Author Text Thanks to those who responded to my questions about indexing multi-author texts. I am feeling more confident now as I have all of the terms entered into Sky and am beginning to sort out some patterns. Terminology is my biggest problem right now! As an indexer, I certainly appreciate the value and importance of a well-written index, and I very much understand the frustration of publishers who do not value the index as an important part of a book. I was not trying to undermine this importance at all by saying that I wasn't even sure that this book needed an index. I was simply trying to determine what kind of index this book needs, and unsure that, because it is a collection of articles and not unified as a whole, that a detailed index would be as helpful to the reader. I certainly would not want to damage the indexing profession, as I hope that it will supply my income in a while. Thanks again, Kari Miller ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 16:30:46 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: TennWords@AOL.COM Subject: Tennessee Regional Group OOPS! So sorry for the inconvenience to everyone by my goof. Thanks to everyone who brought it to my attention!!!! The link to the newest issue is now available. Thanks! Dawn ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:56:33 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kari Joy Kells Subject: part-time indexer A friend saw this in New Tech News and passed it along.... ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Part-Time Indexer > > Artville, the leading publisher and distributor of high-end royalty-free > illustration and photography, seeks a Part-Time Indexer to create lists of > descriptive keywords associated with digital images. > > The ideal candidate possesses excellent language skills and is > detail-oriented, thorough, and able to work with little supervision and a > high degree of accuracy. 15 - 20 hours a week, mornings and/or early > afternoons. Artville is located on the East Side, on a bus line. > > Experience working in a database and familiarity with searching on World > Wide Web are pluses. > Artville is a dynamic, growing company offering a competitive salary. Please send resume and cover letter to "Indexer Position", Artville, 2310 Darwin Road, Madison, WI 53704. No phone calls please. EOE ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Kari ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Kari Kells I n d e x W e s t indexwest@mindspring.com http://www.mindspring.com/~indexwest/ P.O. Box 2748 Vashon Island, WA 98070 206-567-5696 ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:54:23 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Y2K and Indexing At 01:43 PM 3/22/1999 -0500, John and Kara Pekar wrote: >What's that got to do with indexing? Make sure you're compliant well ahead >of time! I wouldn't want to be fighting through the crowds at Best Buy or >CompUSA on January 2, trying to buy a new computer/modem/printer/what have >you! Even assuming best-case scenario, lots of people's home computers are >going to fail. And "just-in-time" ordering -- even without complications >from suppliers -- isn't going to be able to keep up with demand, IMO. That is assuming that the power will be on (i.e., the doors will open, cash registers will work, phone system isn't affected, etc.). And that the trucking system hasn't been bolluxed up because of errant traffic signals or some other unforseen malfunction. And that you've gassed up your car in advance...in case your local stations either don't get their deliveries, or their power isn't working either. And so forth. I don't consider myself to be among the "sky is falling" crowd, but I do expect that we will have multiple annoying hassles to deal with for at least several weeks (if not longer). And in some areas, it could approach disaster proportions (severe weather in the northeast U.S., with no gas or fuel oil, for example). I know that no matter what else happens, I can always go back to the good old shoebox-and-index cards routine, because that's how I learned to index in the first place. My biggest concern, in terms of my business, will be how to deliver the product if we really do see serious power disruptions. Email will be unreliable, as will the Post Office and most other delivery systems. That could present real problems even if your own computer works perfectly. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:54:24 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: payment rant alert At 01:19 PM 3/22/1999 EST, JPerlman@AOL.COM wrote: >The answer is market, market, market! The best clients for us are those who >are businesslike in paying their freelancers. Cherish them, work hard for >them, and don't waste too much effort trying to change the ones who don't >treat us well. I agree! Most of my clients are prompt about paying within 30 days, and I rarely work for authors, so I don't run into the nonpayment problem there. And I had the nicest thing happen on Friday...a new client, who had gotten my name from another publisher, actually told me that HE would rearrange HIS schedule to accommodate mine, since he really wanted me to work on this particular book. (His estimated date of first proofs had slipped severely, and I had to warn him I might have trouble making his old deadline.) Also on Friday, I was tracked down by a favorite editor who had lost track of me after moving from her old publisher to a new one. She actually heaved a sigh of relief at having "found" me again, and promised me three indexes. It definitely pays to keep the customers happy! =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 17:13:41 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kenny, Phyllis" Subject: Re: Y2K and Indexing GREAT -----Original Message----- From: Sonsie Conroy [mailto:sconroy@SLONET.ORG] Sent: Monday, March 22, 1999 4:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: Re: Y2K and Indexing At 01:43 PM 3/22/1999 -0500, John and Kara Pekar wrote: >What's that got to do with indexing? Make sure you're compliant well ahead >of time! I wouldn't want to be fighting through the crowds at Best Buy or >CompUSA on January 2, trying to buy a new computer/modem/printer/what have >you! Even assuming best-case scenario, lots of people's home computers are >going to fail. And "just-in-time" ordering -- even without complications >from suppliers -- isn't going to be able to keep up with demand, IMO. That is assuming that the power will be on (i.e., the doors will open, cash registers will work, phone system isn't affected, etc.). And that the trucking system hasn't been bolluxed up because of errant traffic signals or some other unforseen malfunction. And that you've gassed up your car in advance...in case your local stations either don't get their deliveries, or their power isn't working either. And so forth. I don't consider myself to be among the "sky is falling" crowd, but I do expect that we will have multiple annoying hassles to deal with for at least several weeks (if not longer). And in some areas, it could approach disaster proportions (severe weather in the northeast U.S., with no gas or fuel oil, for example). I know that no matter what else happens, I can always go back to the good old shoebox-and-index cards routine, because that's how I learned to index in the first place. My biggest concern, in terms of my business, will be how to deliver the product if we really do see serious power disruptions. Email will be unreliable, as will the Post Office and most other delivery systems. That could present real problems even if your own computer works perfectly. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:36:26 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Wyatt Subject: Multi-Author Text Questions Kari Miller wrote: I am seeking some advice from indexers with experience with multi-author texts. The editor assured me that although there were 20 authors and 16 articles, the book had a very common theme and should not be difficult to index. You seem to have received excellent advice on how to approach indexing this book. However, part of the indexing process is getting yourself inside the author's head: if there are separate contributions from 16 authors, you have to do this 16 times. To cover the additional time required, I have a policy of charging an extra 1% for each additional author. Once I have explained to the client why I do this they are (usually) happy to comply. Michael Wyatt Keyword Editorial Services 22 Kendall Street, Surry Hills 2010 Australia Phone 0500 539 973 Fax (02) 9331 7785 keyword@ozemail.com.au ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 00:08:40 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kate Welsh Subject: Re: Y2K and Indexing In-Reply-To: <19990322221843Z40878-19822+137@edtnps03.telusplanet.net> Sonsie wrote: My biggest concern, in terms of my business, will be how to deliver the product if we really do see serious power disruptions. Email will be unreliable, as will the Post Office and most other delivery systems. That could present real problems even if your own computer works perfectly. OTOH, if you'll be having those problems, so will your clients. Possibly the biggest problem on their hands won't be the late delivery of an index... Kate Kate Welsh, BA(English), LLB kwelsh@planet.eon.net Indexing - Research - Substantive editing - Stylistic editing - Writing Briefs - Legal materials - Manuals - Plain language materials - Policies -----Original Message----- From: Indexer's Discussion Group [mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Kenny, Phyllis Sent: Monday, March 22, 1999 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: Re: Y2K and Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 06:33:20 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Deborah Patton Subject: ASI strategic planning ASI is determined to complete a Strategic Plan. In working through some early steps of it the committee is using ASI-L to solicit ASI member input. We'll be posting summaries, interim reports and the like there. For those ASI members who aren't subscribing to ASI-L, your input is nevertheless valuable. Earlier this year all ASI members with email addresses were invited to join ASI-L. If you misplaced that or need information on how to subscribe to ASI-L, send an email message to ASI-L-owner@onelist.com asking to join. You can receive ASI-L in digest form (all messages for one day are grouped into one message that you receive at once) or not. Thanks! ASI Strategic Planning Committee Dick Evans, Sharon Hughes, Deborah Patton, Kay Wosewick ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:00:44 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Debra Lindblom Subject: April SoCal ASI Mtg The American Society of Indexers Southern California Chapter invites you to learn about... "Ergonomics and Repetitive Stress Prevention" April 10, 1999 11:30 a.m.- 2:30 p.m. CoCo's Restaurant Upland, California Don't let pain and injuries sideline your career and lifestyle. Learn about ergonomics and how to help prevent repetitive stress injuries. Physical Therapist Catherine S. Konn, owner of Mountain View Physical Therapy in Upland, will present the basic physiology of why and how pain and injuries develop, how to set up your workstation and environment and develop work habits to help prevent pain and injuries, how to manage a chronic problem, and some treatment options. Ms. Konn has been a practicing physical therapist for more than 20 years. She founded Mountain View Physical Therapy in 1986 and has grown from a two-person staff to more than 60. For the past two years she has developed industrial programs to help prevent injuries. She is an active member of the American Physical Therapy Association, an advisory committee member for the Physical Therapy School at Western University of Health and Sciences in Pomona, and she was honored as Upland's "Small Business Person of the Year" in 1997. The meeting will be at: Coco's Restaurant 60 West Foothill Blvd. Upland, California Directions: 10 Freeway - Euclid exit - north (towards the Mountains) to Foothill Blvd. The restaurant is in the shopping center on the southwest corner of Foothill and Euclid. Cost: $12 for ASI and STC members; $17, non-members. Lunch is included. Seating is limited. Send your registration today! The registration deadline is Monday, April 5. Your check must be received by April 5 to guarantee your reservation. For more information, contact Debbie Lindblom at (909) 986-8222 or e-mail: alindblom@aol.com. _________________________________________________________________ REGISTRATION FORM FOR "ERGONOMICS AND REPETITIVE STRESS PREVENTION" LUNCHEON APRIL 10, 1999 11:30 A.M. - 2:30 P.M. COCO'S RESTAURANT, UPLAND CALIFORNIA Name ___________________________________________________________ Mailing Address ___________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ Phone ________________________ E-Mail Address ______________________ Check enclosed for $12 ______ ASI/STC members $17______ non-members Please check your lunch menu choice: ____ Cobb Salad (chopped turkey, bacon, avocado, egg, tomato and Bleu cheese on crisp greens) House dressing on side. Fresh baked bread. Choice of pie for dessert. ____ Vegetable Lasagna (pasta, cheeses, spinach, broccoli, onion, and mushrooms with Alfredo and Marinara sauces) Garlic cheese bread. Soup or salad. Choice of pie for dessert. ____ Mediterranean Chicken (chicken breast with Marinara sauce, Greek olives, Feta cheese) Roasted potatoes. Vegetables. Fresh baked bread. Soup or salad. Choice of pie for dessert. Your paid reservation must be received by April 5. Send your registration today! Seating is limited. Please make your check payable to: ASI-SoCal and mail it to: Anne Leach 78240 Bonanza Drive Palm Desert, CA 92211 Thank you. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:14:50 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cheryl Frank Subject: Re: Thought you 2 might enjoy this: In-Reply-To: <36F6A445.9C2BF6A4@mindspring.com> Yes, great. I sent it to our Y2K expert here at Cornell, my former boss, Bob Feldman! Cheryl ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:28:40 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: Re: ASI strategic planning/apology to list Dick, Sharon, Deborah, Kay, I would have replied to you all personally, but without your email addresses replying to the list is easier. And I will try to make this non-confrontational--there's been too much of that the past two years. And I apologize to the list if this is off-topic. At this point, ASI needs to spend at least a year or two getting back on its feet financially. The dues increase was so great all at once that I'm afraid the organization will be losing members who cannot afford to renew. I don't believe this is the time for any new projects, any slick publications, any meetings in person other than the absolutely necessary board meetings and Wilson Award judging. Meetings need to be streamlined so people can afford to attend them. Extra expenses such as dinners and entertainment need to be dropped--the first special extra-cost dinner was for Julia Child, which was a one-time unusual occurrence. The idea has to be to get the members back, strongly supporting the continuing education and mutual support aspects of ASI that have always been the strongest appeals. Which brings me to the "mutual support" part. What the ASI board needs more than strategic planning is to learn conflict resolution and negotiation skills. Since the Money magazine article and the growth of communication via the Internet, ASI has seen an explosion of negativity and criticism of all kinds. There is NO PLACE (sorry about the shouting) for such behavior--such pure and simple IMPOLITENESS--in a volunteer-run organization. It is difficult to find people willing to serve as leaders if serving means they will be subjected to social abuse. And it is also difficult for leaders to find willing helpers who can be learning the skills that will make them leaders in the future. The place for leadership skills to be learned is in the chapters. And it is the responsibility of each chapter to guard against the kinds of behaviors that cause people to withdraw and feel bad about the organization--and about themselves. Leaders need to encourage and empower new members, and new members need to step out and take risks that will broaden their experience and enrich their lives. I am writing this because I care about ASI. Please, someone, post a copy on ASI-L. Since I am no longer indexing (burnout after 26 years) and have seen my income drop by more than two-thirds, I am now one of those who cannot afford to renew, so I am not on that list. Instead of indexing, I am working at a country inn overlooking the Pacific Ocean, copyediting a little part-time to earn at least some extra money, and learning customer service skills that reinforce what I learned as an officer in the Golden Gate Chapter and in ASI national. Please, listen to me. And thank you all--the current board needs to be congratulated for its fortitude and loyalty. I wish you all the best. Elinor Lindheimer Past President, ASI elinorl@mcn.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:17:59 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: ASI strategic planning/apology to list In-Reply-To: <199903231230.rffjtq.hns.37kbi17@mx9.mindspring.com> At 09:28 AM 3/23/99 -0800, you wrote: >Dick, Sharon, Deborah, Kay, > I would have replied to you all personally, but without your email >addresses replying to the list is easier. Elinor: Thank you for you comments. They are well taken and much appreciated. Other followers of INDEX-L: Please direct any followup discussion to the ASI-L list. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:08:20 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Charles R. Anderson" Subject: Re: payment rant alert In-Reply-To: <19990322161034.XWGO28816@listserv.cuny.edu> Reading the varying thoughts on publishers etc. taking longer to pay (and varying local chapter meeting sizes) makes me wonder if there is any connection to the greater number of available indexers? When I began indexing (back in the 3x5 card days), the number of indexers who got together for the first iteration of a local Chicago chapter totaled I believe around 8-10 - and half of those were wannabe's. (Does that match your memory, Sandi?) As computer indexing has spread, have we over-populated the field, leading to more competition and more places for editors to turn for other indexers, which in a way drives down the price (taking longer and longer to pay is a kind of price deflator, since with inflation they are paying with cheaper dollars while getting the benefit of investing your money for longer). Charles Anderson -----Original Message----- From: Indexer's Discussion Group [mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Rachel Rice Sent: Monday, March 22, 1999 7:26 AM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: payment rant alert Is anyone besides me noticing a trend toward later and later payment? My cash flow is starting to suck. I have one client who used to pay in about 3-4 weeks who now says it's going to be standard 60 days because they don't get paid by their vendors. And I have another whose average is 5 months and when he called for an assignment last week I said I wouldn't work for him anymore unless he can pay in 30-60 days or pay finance charges after that. Haven't heard back from him. And this is one of my favorite and best clients and I felt I had to do this. And another company I just did a first assignment for who said right up front they pay at 90 days but once they get to know an indexer and like them, sometimes they can slide it in sooner. What is that about? They currently owe me nearly 2 grand which would be nice to have as I haven't registered for Indy nor gotten a plane ticket yet because I don't have in my hand close to 4 grand that I'm owed. This is starting to really bug me. And I also find I'm nearly always always having to start calling most of them at 30 or 60 days and harassing politely in order to get paid at all. I feel like hiring someone to do collections. I get calls from people I owe money to and I have to back pedal them the same way I get back pedaled from my clients. No one the world economy is in such a state. Or is it? I don't know. Maybe it's stable for all I know. Maybe we don't owe 50 billion anymore. What do I know about economics. Lately I've picked up work from 3 or 4 authors I haven't worked with before and I'm sending contracts requiring 1/3 in advance and the balance 15 days after delivery and finance charges after 30 days, and not starting work unless I get the contract and the 1/3. And yes, I do also put a "kill fee" clause into that contract which reads that I get 1/3 on a killed assignment even if I haven't started the work, and I get my per page rate for any work I've already done at the time of cancellation, and I get full fee if it's cancelled after I submit it. So far in, what, 3 or 4 years now I've never had a job killed but I no longer trust to chance. Now I just got a ms with no contract or check with it, even though I sent the contract, so I have to decide whether to go ahead and start without it (I can't afford to let it lie as I have 2 other jobs coming in this week) or to stand my ground. This seems only to be happening to me recently. If I didn't have my job, I'd be in serious financial trouble. It's what is keeping me from daring to go to full time freelancing. Anyway, that's my Happy Thoughts for the day. Not. Rachel Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric racric ICQ 31476947 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:11:40 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Iris B. Ailin-Pyzik" Subject: Re: payment rant alert Having recently left the employ of a large corporation, I vote that the number of indexers has nothing to do with this issue. Companies see this as improving their cash flow, and I bet you will find that all of their creditors are treated the same way, except for critical suppliers who scream loudly - or delay shipments - remember the posting from whoever it was (sorry I don't recall the name) that held up delivery till they were paid for prior indexes (indices?)? My former employer would put payable in 45 days on POs, and then when the invoice arrived with a discount for early payment, would wait the 45 days and send the discounted amount. They said most suppliers just accepted that. So how much are prices inflated to take care of this nonsense? Iris "Charles R. Anderson" wrote: > Reading the varying thoughts on publishers etc. taking longer to pay (and > varying local chapter meeting sizes) makes me wonder if there is any > connection to the greater number of available indexers? When I began > indexing (back in the 3x5 card days), the number of indexers who got > together for the first iteration of a local Chicago chapter totaled I > believe around 8-10 - and half of those were wannabe's. (Does that match > your memory, Sandi?) > > As computer indexing has spread, have we over-populated the field, leading > to more competition and more places for editors to turn for other indexers, > which in a way drives down the price (taking longer and longer to pay is a > kind of price deflator, since with inflation they are paying with cheaper > dollars while getting the benefit of investing your money for longer). > > Charles Anderson > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indexer's Discussion Group > [mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Rachel Rice > Sent: Monday, March 22, 1999 7:26 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: payment rant alert > > Is anyone besides me noticing a trend toward later and later payment? My > cash flow is starting to suck. I have one client who used to pay in about > 3-4 weeks who now says it's going to be standard 60 days because they don't > get paid by their vendors. And I have another whose average is 5 months and > when he called for an assignment last week I said I wouldn't work for him > anymore unless he can pay in 30-60 days or pay finance charges after that. > Haven't heard back from him. And this is one of my favorite and best > clients and I felt I had to do this. > > And another company I just did a first assignment for who said right up > front they pay at 90 days but once they get to know an indexer and like > them, sometimes they can slide it in sooner. What is that about? They > currently owe me nearly 2 grand which would be nice to have as I haven't > registered for Indy nor gotten a plane ticket yet because I don't have in > my hand close to 4 grand that I'm owed. This is starting to really bug me. > And I also find I'm nearly always always having to start calling most of > them at 30 or 60 days and harassing politely in order to get paid at all. I > feel like hiring someone to do collections. I get calls from people I owe > money to and I have to back pedal them the same way I get back pedaled from > my clients. No one the world economy is in such a state. Or is it? I don't > know. Maybe it's stable for all I know. Maybe we don't owe 50 billion > anymore. What do I know about economics. > > Lately I've picked up work from 3 or 4 authors I haven't worked with before > and I'm sending contracts requiring 1/3 in advance and the balance 15 days > after delivery and finance charges after 30 days, and not starting work > unless I get the contract and the 1/3. And yes, I do also put a "kill fee" > clause into that contract which reads that I get 1/3 on a killed assignment > even if I haven't started the work, and I get my per page rate for any work > I've already done at the time of cancellation, and I get full fee if it's > cancelled after I submit it. So far in, what, 3 or 4 years now I've never > had a job killed but I no longer trust to chance. > > Now I just got a ms with no contract or check with it, even though I sent > the contract, so I have to decide whether to go ahead and start without it > (I can't afford to let it lie as I have 2 other jobs coming in this week) > or to stand my ground. This seems only to be happening to me recently. > > If I didn't have my job, I'd be in serious financial trouble. It's what is > keeping me from daring to go to full time freelancing. > > Anyway, that's my Happy Thoughts for the day. Not. > > Rachel > > Rachel Rice > Directions Unlimited Desktop Services > Indexing, editing, proofreading > http://homepages.together.net/~racric > racric ICQ 31476947 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:30:02 +1100 Reply-To: diagonal@hermes.net.au Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jon & Glenda Subject: Re: payment rant alert In-Reply-To: I have been most impressed lately by some government clients ringing me months before a project is ready for indexing and saying "Tell me what you need, where you fit in this plan" etc. One also said "We hope to have this book ready to launch at a conference, but we have to be realistic, and if it can't be done we'll show them a dummy copy and take orders". This sort of approach is a dream. (Neither of these projects has yet come to fruition, so I can't yet make a final verdict, but I think they're on the right track). Glenda. > And I had the nicest thing happen on Friday...a new client, who had gotten > my name from another publisher, actually told me that HE would > rearrange HIS > schedule to accommodate mine, since he really wanted me to work on this > particular book. (His estimated date of first proofs had slipped severely, > and I had to warn him I might have trouble making his old > deadline.) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:15:41 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Sherman Grayson Subject: Take Heart... ... Marketing pays off ... eventually. Today I received a call from a publisher to whom I spoke and mailed my usual materials in August of 1997. And late last year I took on a new client who had received my materials in March of 1997. I believe the key to successful marketing is not glitzy brochures but very personal phone calls and letters. When I make my marketing calls and get live bodies I relax, and try to be very personable - I've made many, many calls and I remember these two calls explictly. After I finish the call, I produce the cover letter right away and even though parts of it are template or "canned", I make certain the letter contains explicit references to the phone conversation. So take heart, all you new indexers out there who are sprouting your marketing wings, it really does work. It's just that sometimes you have to be patient! Julie Grayson juliesg@ix.netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:13:52 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Workshop by Dr. Bella Hass Weinberg All -- Bella asked me to post this for her .... Lori Lathrop **********Press Release*********** St. John=92s to Offer Workshop on Book Indexing in New York City =93Indexing Books and Reference Works: Principles and Techniques=94 is th= e theme of a Professional Development Seminar to be taught by Dr. Bella Has= s Weinberg, Professor, Division of Library and Information Science, St. John=92s University, on Thursday, May 6, 1999, from 9:30 a.m. to 5:00 p.m= . at the Association of the Bar of the City of New York, 42 West 44th Street, = in Manhattan. The fee for the seminar is $100, including lunch, coffee breaks, and handouts. There will be preregistration discounts for all, a= s well as lower rates for students and members of the American Society for Information Science and the American Society of Indexers. The seminar will introduce the preparation of =93back-of-the-book=94 inde= xes, covering concepts of indexable matter, structure of index entries, cross references, filing, format, and indexer-publisher relations. Many of the= se concepts are applicable to the indexing of electronic resources. Manual and computer-assisted techniques will be discussed, but software will not= be demonstrated. Continuing Education Units (.6 CEU) will be available to those attending,= under the auspices of Metropolitan College of St. John=92s University. Authors, publishers, information scientists, technical writers, librarian= s, and indexers should benefit from the seminar. The 1996 seminar was rated = =93excellent=94 by the vast majority of those attending, including many experienced indexers. Dr. Weinberg is a Past President of the American Society of Indexers, and= the 1998 recipient of its Hines Award for distinguished service to the Society and the profession. She teaches graduate courses in Information Science as well as Indexing and Abstracting at St. John=92s. She has compiled several highly praised book indexes and consults on the design o= f indexes and thesauri. Dr. Weinberg has published extensively on indexing= theory. Her thorough knowledge of the literature of this field is reflect= ed in her anthology, Can You Recommend a Good Book on Indexing?: Collected Reviews on the Organization of Information (Information Today, 1998). = For further information, contact: = Division of Library and Information Science Phone: (718) 990-6200 St. John=92s University Fax: (718) 990-2071 8000 Utopia Parkway E-mail: HYPERLI= NK mailto:libis@stjohns.edu libis@stjohns.edu = Jamaica NY 11439 HYPERLINK http://www.stjohns.edu/academics/sjc/depts/dlis/index.html = ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:43:09 -0500 Reply-To: julie means Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: julie means Subject: indexing a revised edition This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BE75C9.F61685A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello all, I've been asked to index a revised edition of a book for one of the = larger academic presses. The editor tells me that only three of the = chapters are new, so the job shouldn't be too difficult...as much of the = book is unchanged, the original index can be used with the indexer = changing the page references as necessary. I seem to recall that I have undertaken something like this once or = twice long long ago and I seem to recall that it actually felt much more = difficult to do than had I completely disregarded the original index and = created my own new one. Therefore, I'm considered accepting the work, = but only if I could toss the old index and make my own new one. Any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Julie ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BE75C9.F61685A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello all,
 
I've been asked to index a revised = edition of a=20 book for one of the larger academic presses.  The editor tells me = that only=20 three of the chapters are new, so the job shouldn't be too = difficult...as much=20 of the book is unchanged, the original index can be used with the = indexer=20 changing the page references as necessary.
 
I seem to recall that I have = undertaken=20 something like this once or twice long long ago and I seem to recall = that it=20 actually felt much more difficult to do than had I completely = disregarded the=20 original index and created my own new one.  Therefore, I'm = considered=20 accepting the work, but only if I could toss the old index and make my = own new=20 one.
 
Any words of wisdom would be greatly = appreciated!
 
Thanks,
 
Julie
------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BE75C9.F61685A0-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:32:02 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: indexing a revised edition This discussion surfaces periodically on Index-L. As an in-house indexer for a large legal publishing company, most of my indexing involves updating existing indexes as opposed to creating new ones. The key to success is getting the proper materials. You absolutely must have a copy of the old index sorted numerically (by page reference) along with the alphabetical sorting, and you should also see if you can get redlined copy showing where the new or changed material has been inserted or deleted. The flagged copy isn't absolutely necessary, but it certainly is nice if it's available! If your client can provide you with these things you can salvage the existing index much faster than you can create a new one from scratch. Even without the marked copy, you can usually follow along pretty well assuming that the original indexing was competently done, but if you can't get the numericly sorted index, don't try-- you'll only frustrate yourself. Talk to the publisher and see what they can provide, and good luck! -- Sharon W. Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:23:38 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: indexing a revised edition In-Reply-To: <199903241422.GAA03327@decibel.electriciti.com> Julie's recollection mirrors my experience. I believe she is very wise to simply provide the best advice possible to her client--that a new index will be better and much, much more efficient. The time taken in tracking and adapting for the traveling of pages from the earlier edition is **very** time consuming. I would do it if a really good client insisted, but the one that gave me the job in which i discovered how gruesome this this now promises to never do it again. Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:36:07 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Michaud Subject: printer troubles Hi everyone, I'm having trouble with my HP Deskjet printer, and thought you might be more help than HP's documentation. Since they are no help at all. Everything I print is streaked. They are regular streaks, running across the paper, as if the print cartridge is dragging something through the wet ink as it moves back and forth. However, I've opened the printer up three times so far this morning, removed and cleaned the cartridges, used damp cue tips to wipe every available surface, removed a number of stray pieces of dust, and the streaks are, if anything, getting worse. Anyone have any ideas? I get this problem a lot, but cleaning the cartridges has always improved things, and it has never been this bad. Thanks in advance, Christine, whose plan to spend the day writing marketing letters is on hold until I get the printer fixed... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:20:58 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kathleen Babbitt Subject: Re: printer troubles Christine Michaud wrote: > > Everything I print is streaked. However, I've opened the printer up three > times so far this morning, removed and cleaned the cartridges, used damp > cue tips to wipe every available surface, removed a number of stray pieces > of dust, and the streaks are, if anything, getting worse. > Oof. This sounds familiar--I had a similar problem about a month ago. IIRC, I used HP's Toolbox to clean the cartridges--is this what you mean by "cleaned the cartridges"? I think that sometimes there are just did cartridges--although I got mine to calm down with this Toolbox function, the print was never as clear and sharp as it could be. When it finally died, the new cartridge performed beautifully. Annoying as can be, considering what the damn things cost. I don't think I'm being very helpful . . . Kathy Babbitt Lurker ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:24:02 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Sherman Grayson Subject: Re: printer troubles Sounds like the cartridge is defective - have you tried replacing it with another then running a bunch of old paper through the printer to clean it up? If this doesn't work, I think it's time for a repair/cleaning visit to the Laser printer cleaning people. Julie Grayson juliesg@ix.netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:25:23 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bill Menker Subject: Humor: Y2k "bug" For another look at the Y2K "bug." http://sos.wustl.edu/mil_bug.gif Bill *********************************** Bill Menker Information Science Specialist The Mazer Corporation bill_menker@mazer.com *********************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 12:19:17 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pamela Venneman Subject: Re: printer troubles Hi Maybe this site can help HP DeskJet 600 Maintenance Tips www.hp.com/cposupport/printers/support_doc/dj6ser/track.html Good Luck Pamela Venneman Lighthouse Indexing Services ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 14:18:33 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Michaud Subject: Thanks - re: printer Thank you for the excellent advice. I have replaced the printer cartridge and cleaned the interior meticulously following the instructions on the HP website (Thank you, Faye.) and it is now looking very much better. Christine Michaud Michaud Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 14:59:35 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Keith McQuay Subject: Timing of Double Entries In-Reply-To: <199903232114.QAA29506@adan.kingston.net> I wonder if there are many indexers who leave ALL their double entries till the final edit. I've not been indexing long and so far I've not tried it this way. I'm awfully tempted to give it a go. Any warnings or advice? Thanks very much. Keith McQuay FOREWORD Indexing 613-634-2669 Foreword@bigfoot.com http://www.bigfoot.com/~Foreword ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 15:11:13 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Timing of Double Entries In-Reply-To: <199903241500.rfih3j.p4s.37kbi14.1@mx6.mindspring.com> At 02:59 PM 3/24/99 -0500, you wrote: >I wonder if there are many indexers who leave ALL their double entries till >the final edit. I've not been indexing long and so far I've not tried it >this way. I'm awfully tempted to give it a go. Any warnings or advice? > I used to leave them all for final edit but found it worked better if I did them at the end of each chapter when things were fresh in my mind. But then, I do computer books, wherein chapters are very mudular, almost small books unto each one. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 14:20:18 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: Timing of Double Entries On 3/24/1999 1:59 PM Keith McQuay wrote (in part): >I wonder if there are many indexers who leave ALL their double entries till >the final edit. I've not been indexing long and so far I've not tried it >this way. I'm awfully tempted to give it a go. Any warnings or advice? I try to do it that way. I generally try to embed some kind of message in any subentry to alert me. For instance: customers bargaining power of [flip!!], 462-463 I use brackets and double exclams throughout the index to remind me of something I want to do which is more appropriate to the editing phase than to the entry phase. I'm interested in seeing the comments of others. I know there is a big contingent that edits as it goes. hth, Craig Brown ===================================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing http://www.i1.net/~lastword (314)352-9094 fax: (314)481-9254 ===================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 15:31:10 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Nancy A. Guenther" Subject: Re: Timing of Double Entries In-Reply-To: <199903242022.PAA23858@carriage.chesco.com> At 02:20 PM 3/24/99 -0600, you wrote: >On 3/24/1999 1:59 PM Keith McQuay wrote (in part): > >>I wonder if there are many indexers who leave ALL their double entries till >>the final edit. I've not been indexing long and so far I've not tried it >>this way. I'm awfully tempted to give it a go. Any warnings or advice? > >I try to do it that way. I generally try to embed some kind of message >in any subentry to alert me. For instance: > >customers > bargaining power of [flip!!], 462-463 > >I use brackets and double exclams throughout the index to remind me of >something I want to do which is more appropriate to the editing phase >than to the entry phase. I've always worked to create all the entries during the data entry. SKY is very efficient in the process. For example the entry about would require 1 additional keystroke to fully created the flipped entry. The only exception comes when I have a series of entries that will all need to be manipulated. Then I enter the group, select them & again in one keystroke the flip is created. I'd be curious to hear how marking entries for flipping and not flipping them to the end would be preferable. Nancy Guenther ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 15:37:15 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Cohen Subject: Re: Timing of Double Entries Hi Keith, In my experience, leaving all of the double-posting until the end doesn't work as well in practice as it seems like it should work in theory. Here's why: in many cases, I have entries that look like double-posts but really aren't identical double-posts. I think of them as a kind of double-post "but not quite." If I would leave it until the end to double-post the actual double- posts versus the "sort-of-alike but not quite identical" double-posts, I think I would get very confused. But I work on books with lots over overlapping and imprecise vocabulary and neologisms. Perhaps in books with a clearer thesaurus or more defined vocabulary, your plan would work better. About the only thing I sometimes do is post all of the most straightforward double-posts as temporary entries without page numbers (in other words, I make an entry and use ?? as a locator, so I can go back and copy the identical string from the main entry) in order to save time entering locators in two places every time an object is mentioned. I think this kind of double-posting (at the end) works better for discrete objects than it does for ideas, mostly because in my experience words that convey ideas can be notoriously tricky things! For example, I work on a lot of religious history books, and terms that define areas of ethics can have nuanced meanings that would make it hard to double- post at the end. I'd have to remember just what the take on each term was supposed to be on that page. Multiply the problems with a number of authors's use of language in a multiauthored volume. Questions like this make me wish that every word only had one meaning, or that I worked on more books that had entries like "apple pie" and "pie, apple." To throw out just one recent example, I worked on a book about the settlement of a valley between Ethiopia and Somalia by ex-slaves and members of a number of ethnic groups. The valley itself has had a number of names, the slaves don't form a cohesive ethnic group, and the settlers have mixed in various parts of the valley with diiferent indigenous groups. Also, the country of allegience changed in different parts of the valley over time, and various terms were used to denote parts of the valley by different characters in the drama. Trying to find discrete terms was a real challenge, even for the largest group discussed in the book (the ex-slaves, which I classified as "freedmen" but hated the lack of a female equivalent for that term; only I thought it was a more positive terms than "ex-slaves"--since I couldn't convince myself people would look up "ex-anything" for a main entry). Since there were many ethnic groups discussed on each page, and since some members of each group either mingled or didn't mingle with the ex-slaves, I couldn't possibly have double-posted the groups and their variations later. As it was, while reading each sentence, I had to keep every term as clear and precise as possible, because a paragrpah later, I'd look back and think "what??" Anyway, what I am trying to say is that if your terms have any kind of overlap, you'll spend more time revisiting each page trying to make sure the double-posts are accurate than it would be worth. Why not just do them as you come to each entry and save yourself the trouble of having to re-check each one? (At time like this, I wish I had a set of examples to express just what I mean more clearly. I can never think of the best possible example on the fly like this, but I believe that most indexers of scholarly material would agree that our books are full of overlapping and multiple terms for similar but not identical information. Double-posting at the end just doesn't make sense for this kind of material.) Just one opinion, Barbara E. Cohen Indianapolis, IN ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 15:51:47 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Timing of Double Entries To chime in with yet another modus operandi, I like to create all of the entries as I enter text. I find it most intuitive that way. As Nancy said, it allows you the best use of your indexing software, since the entry is right there on the screen. One keystroke is usually all you need to flip it. Additionally, as Barbara wrote, with multi-authored works and nuances of meaning, the immediacy of having the text in front of you triggers thoughts that might otherwise be lost if not acted on at the moment. Most important here, I think, is to remember that indexing is a creative act -- an act of intellectual creativity. Just as no 2 artists of any other kind use the exact same technique, here too, the same thing holds. No 2 indexers will do things the same way, and those who do it differently probably do so for differing reasons. Do what is comfortable for you, intellectually. This is the same kind of discussion as the one about "to mark or not to mark text". Some of us can only work one way, and cannot adapt to the other. Here too. For me, creating all of the entries at the same time is best. In case you're wondering, I do check for the flips as part of my editing process. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 16:05:03 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary Mortensen Subject: Re: Timing of Double Entries Like Craig, I include a message to myself in the subentry (just "flip" in my case). I do the flipping as the last step in the entry phase and before I start any editing. I think I would confuse myself if the double postings weren't there when I started to edit. I simply display everything containing 'flip' on the screen and start inverting them. I think that speed in the entry phase and consistency are both improved by not trying to double-post as I'm entering. YMMV of course. Mary -- * Mary Mortensen * marymort@aol.com * Lawrence, Kansas, USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 17:16:28 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Timing of Double Entries In-Reply-To: <199903241522.rfiibl.k1p.37kbi3u@mx10.mindspring.com> At 02:20 PM 3/24/99 -0600, you wrote: >I try to do it that way. I generally try to embed some kind of message >in any subentry to alert me. For instance: > >customers > bargaining power of [flip!!], 462-463 I have an abbreviation key set up to insert the string ! NOTES NOTES NOTES NOTES I insert this string as a primary entry (The exclamation mark forces it to the top of the file) then write a note to myself in the subentry. By the time I get to final edit, I often have a half dozen reminders. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 20:54:54 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: payment rant alert Charles Anderson wrote: << ...have we over-populated the field, leading to more competition and more places for editors to turn for other indexers, which in a way drives down the price (taking longer and longer to pay is a kind of price deflator, since with inflation they are paying with cheaper dollars while getting the benefit of investing your money for longer). >> I don't know. I guess this is possible. But I also know that in the field of scholarly indexing (social sciences and humanities) I am always hearing pleas from editors for referrals to good indexers; I'm always getting calls from authors looking for an indexer who have been through a long list of referred indexers who are all booked. I'm afraid to say that at least in this field I think there's a severe shortage of ^good^ indexers. In textbook indexing, on the other hand, the field seems much fuller and I don't turn away as much work (this is partly because textbook indexing, being easier, balances my scholarly load and so I'm always wanting to have enough of it). So I think my moral is: get really good at this (by which I mean quality of indexing AND never ever missing a deadline) (and be patient while your reputation is being established) and there will be plenty of work from publishers who are willing to pay well. Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 21:08:18 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Timing of Double Entries Barb wrote: << In my experience, leaving all of the double-posting until the end doesn't work as well in practice as it seems like it should work in theory. Here's why: in many cases, I have entries that look like double-posts but really aren't identical double-posts. I think of them as a kind of double-post "but not quite." If I would leave it until the end to double-post the actual double- posts versus the "sort-of-alike but not quite identical" double-posts, I think I would get very confused.... About the only thing I sometimes do is post all of the most straightforward double-posts as temporary entries without page numbers (in other words, I make an entry and use ?? as a locator, so I can go back and copy the identical string from the main entry) in order to save time entering locators in two places every time an object is mentioned. >> I find the same thing in scholarly books, Barb--I double-post as I go, flipping in Macrex with (usually) one keystroke. In very complicated encyclopedias I've sometimes wanted a system to record all of the places where one repeating concept should be double-posted. If they all have the same phrase in them, then I can just group on it and enter them all at the same time, but sometimes they don't. So I'll have to work on some kind of marker system for that. The other reason for flipping everything as I go, in textbook as well as scholarly indexing, is that I'm looking at and editing my index as it grows, and I don't want to be misled about the size and content of any individual entry. Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 21:22:03 -0500 Reply-To: julie means Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: julie means Subject: indexing a revised edition This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BE763C.5C7465C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks to all who offered advice and words of wisdom concerning indexing = a revised edition! The editor easily accepted my preference to use the = original index merely as a general reference and to create an entirely = new index. It was nice to have the consensus of you all backing me up. Julie "May you live all the days of your life." --Jonathan Swift ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BE763C.5C7465C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks to all who offered advice and = words of=20 wisdom concerning indexing a revised edition!  The editor easily accepted my = preference to use the original index merely as a general reference and = to create=20 an entirely new index.  It was nice to have the consensus of you = all=20 backing me up.
 
Julie
 
 "May you live all = the days of=20 your life."
--Jonathan Swift
 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BE763C.5C7465C0-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 21:28:44 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Janet Russell Subject: Re: indexing a revised edition > I seem to recall that I have undertaken something like this once or = > twice long long ago and I seem to recall that it actually felt much more = > difficult to do than had I completely disregarded the original index and = > created my own new one. Therefore, I'm considered accepting the work, = > but only if I could toss the old index and make my own new one. On a few occasions, I have found revising an existing index to be a valuable learning experience. I was, in effect, able to bounce my ideas off someone else. There have been times when, totally stumped about the best way to handle a particular passage, that I have turned to the end of the manuscript to see how the indexer did it, only to remember that I am the indexer. In this sense, revising an index is easier. (This is assuming that you have the first index in a page order sort.) But it won't go any faster. Each year, I revise one of my own indexes, an organizational directory. There are only a few changes in the text, but they affect the flow of all the remaining text. Fixing all those page numbers takes me almost as long as the original index did. Janet Russell ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:59:15 -0000 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Re: Timing of Double Entries In-Reply-To: > So I'll have to work on some kind of > marker system for that. For some time I have thought it would be useful in the flagship indexing programs if they had 'hidden' fields for marking entries. If two entries referring to the same target had the same code number they could thus be identified as a double entry. 'Hidden' fields might also be useful for interfacing indexes with electronic documents having embedded entries or tags. Regards _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:04:06 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Sherman Grayson Subject: Re: marketing phone calls --------------11D5045A622CCE742B30FABB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ellen Brink wrote: > I have made several marketing calls and most often I get dropped into > someone's voice mail. How do you deal with this? It doesn't seem right > to leave a message, on the other hand sometimes it is impossible to make > direct contact and maybe it's better than nothing (?) > Ellen, Yes, voice mail is definitely a barrier to hurdle. When calling, I wait for the option to speak to an operator, then ask for the production department. I use the LMP (Literary Market Place) to find a likely name - usually someone in production or a senior editing person, if then I get voice mail I leave a message in which I 1)identify myself as an experienced indexer (in my case 10+ years) and 2)politely asks for a callback especially if they are NOT the person I need to speak with. I have about a 50% callback rate, which is really quite good and if it is a publisher with whom I really, really want to make contact, I make it a point to call them again within the week. I only place marketing calls on Tues., Wed., Thurs. between 9-11:30 and 1-4:30 THEIR time. Forget Mondays and Fridays. Hope this helps. I'll also post this to the list in the event someone else has a different approach. Julie Grayson juliesg@ix.netcom.com --------------11D5045A622CCE742B30FABB Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ellen Brink wrote: 
I have made several marketing calls and most often I get dropped into
someone's voice mail.  How do you deal with this?  It doesn't seem
 right
to leave a message, on the other hand sometimes it is impossible to make
direct contact and maybe it's better than nothing (?)


Ellen,

Yes, voice mail is definitely a barrier to hurdle. When calling, I wait for the option to speak to an operator, then ask for the production department. I use the LMP (Literary Market Place) to find a likely name - usually someone in production or a senior editing person, if then I get voice mail I leave a message in which I 1)identify myself as an experienced indexer (in my case 10+ years) and 2)politely asks for a callback especially if they are NOT the person I need to speak with. I have about a 50% callback rate, which is really quite good and if it is a publisher with whom I really, really want to make contact, I make it a point to call them again within the week. I only place marketing calls on Tues., Wed., Thurs. between 9-11:30 and 1-4:30 THEIR time. Forget Mondays and Fridays.
Hope this helps.

I'll also post this to the list in the event someone else has a different approach.

Julie Grayson
juliesg@ix.netcom.com --------------11D5045A622CCE742B30FABB-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:38:20 +0000 Reply-To: connolly@neca.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dan Connolly Organization: Word For Word Indexing and Editing Services Subject: Re: marketing phone calls I never leave messages on voice mail. When I call, I'm looking to make a connection with the editor. They're too busy to call an indexer who may or may not be able to help them (some perceive it as my offering to help them, some as my looking for them to help me). If you have a great "teaser" line, then this might work for you. I don't happen to have one. Dan Julie Sherman Grayson wrote: > > --------------11D5045A622CCE742B30FABB > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Ellen Brink wrote: > > > I have made several marketing calls and most often I get dropped into > > someone's voice mail. How do you deal with this? It doesn't seem right > > to leave a message, on the other hand sometimes it is impossible to make > > direct contact and maybe it's better than nothing (?) > > > > Ellen, > > Yes, voice mail is definitely a barrier to hurdle. When calling, I > wait for the option to speak to an operator, then ask for the > production department. I use the LMP (Literary Market Place) to find a > likely name - usually someone in production or a senior editing > person, if then I get voice mail I leave a message in which I > 1)identify myself as an experienced indexer (in my case 10+ years) and > 2)politely asks for a callback especially if they are NOT the person I > need to speak with. I have about a 50% callback rate, which is really > quite good and if it is a publisher with whom I really, really want to > make contact, I make it a point to call them again within the week. I > only place marketing calls on Tues., Wed., Thurs. between 9-11:30 and > 1-4:30 THEIR time. Forget Mondays and Fridays. > Hope this helps. > > I'll also post this to the list in the event someone else has a > different approach. > > Julie Grayson > juliesg@ix.netcom.com > -- ============================= Daniel A. Connolly mailto:connolly@neca.com Word For Word Indexing Services http://www.wfwIndex.necaweb.com Woodstock, CT, USA ============================= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:55:16 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Timing of Double Entries John Sampson wrote: << For some time I have thought it would be useful in the flagship indexing programs if they had 'hidden' fields for marking entries. If two entries referring to the same target had the same code number they could thus be identified as a double entry. 'Hidden' fields might also be useful for interfacing indexes with electronic documents having embedded entries or tags. >> Actually, Macrex has codes that can hide a note from sorting, from printing, or from both. I just have to sit down and make a system for myself, using that tool. Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:18:22 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Debra Graf Subject: Index for Publisher's Catalog - Rate? Everyone, I've just been given the opportunity to index a publisher's Fall 1999 Book Sale Catalog. They would like two indexes--1) titles of the books and page numbers, and 2) names of the authors and page numbers. I've been told that the catalog is roughly 215 pages, with 3-4 columns on each page. Content varies on each page--the first 80 pages contain 1 book/1 author, with subsequent pages containing as many as 20-25 books/authors. If I accept the job, the due date is end of first week in April, with most of the page proofs arriving tomorrow and the rest early next week. (By the way, I have another book indexing project arriving supposedly the first week in April--I'll be given a week or two to complete that one.) I have never done a project like this with a) two indexes, and b) only names of books and authors. My first thought was that this would be a nice, easy project but I've belonged to Index-L long enough to know that this is not always the case. Could those who've had experience with this let me know whether it was relatively easy or not? Also, I do not know what to charge for a project like this. I'm inclined to charge my usual per-page rate, but don't know if that's fair or not. Should I charge a really low rate for the first 80 pages, and then a higher rate for the rest? What would be a good rate for this project? I am working with Cindex for Windows. The editor let me know that she could send me their QuarkExpress electronic file. I know that Cindex allows me to save an index as a QuarkExpress file. But is it at all helpful for me to RECEIVE their QuarkExpress file (if I can open it at all in Cindex)? This may be a dumb question, but I've also never done two indexes for the same set of page proofs. How do I handle this with Cindex? (I'll read the whole manual some day, I promise.) Thank you, in advance, for your wonderful help. The editor is waiting to hear back from me... Debbie Graf ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 18:23:00 +0000 Reply-To: hcalvert@macrex.cix.co.uk Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Drusilla Calvert Subject: Re: Timing of Double Entries In-Reply-To: <199903242053.UAA14987@nickel.cix.co.uk> I often tend to use ^see^ refs instead of double entries. I assess all the ^see^ refs at the very end of the indexing process, and change any ^see^ refs which would function better as double entries at this stage. I don't know if anyone else does this! Drusilla Calvert D.Calvert@macrex.cix.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:41:21 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Field, Susan (S.)" Subject: Lexicon development I have been tasked with the project of developing a lexicon, and have several questions. Is this listserv the appropiate forum, or could someone recommend one to me? 1) What is the difference between a lexicon and a thesaurus? 2) We are looking for product recommendations for a high performance, excellent lexicon/thesaurus software program--because we need to store detailed metadata regarding each term. (We need to track changes in terminology, changes in department names, building names, etc.). Also, 3) Are there software products that structure the data in a matrix, rather than flat heirarchial relationships? Susan Field sfield3@ford.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:07:41 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Sherman Grayson Subject: Name resources Dear "Collective Wisdoms" I have been contracted to provide indexes for two projects beginning in April which are guaranteed to be "chock-a-block" with difficult foreign names. One book is about 50 years of transformation in India, the other is on Indonesia. The problem names will range from Asian to Moslem, Buddhist and a host of others. Do any of you have any biographical reference suggestions other than the usual (Cambridge, etc.)? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Julie Grayson juliesg@ix.netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:10:40 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary Mortensen Subject: Re: Timing of Double Entries Drusilla wrote: > I often tend to use ^see^ refs instead of double entries. I > assess all the ^see^ refs at the very end of the indexing > process, and change any ^see^ refs which would function > better as double entries at this stage. I don't know if > anyone else does this! Yes; however when this discussion started I was thinking of another type of double-posting: where an entry/subentry pair is flipped to become another main entry/subentry pair. For example: employees motivating motivation of employees A variation is when a subentry is also a main entry (called half-flip in Macrex) employees salespeople salespeople I guess we do need to give examples when discussing these ambiguous terms. Mary -- * Mary Mortensen * marymort@aol.com * Lawrence, Kansas, USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:27:07 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: ROBJRICH@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Name Resources Julie - One book that might be of help is: PEOPLE'S NAMES by Holly Ingraham. Pub by McFarland & Co., 1997. Rather pricey (I recall paying around $50 for my copy). It is 610 pages, and covers both contemporary and historical (Renaissance, Middle Ages, Dark Ages, Ancient Europe, etc.) names. Modern countries include Eastern Med, South Asia, Eastern Europe, Western Europe, North Asia, Pacific, Africa, and of course, North America. Probably worth checking it out. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:08:15 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Melanie Edwards Subject: Re: Index for Publisher's Catalog - Rate? In a message dated 99-03-25 13:22:53 EST, you write: > I've just been given the opportunity to index a publisher's Fall 1999 Book > Sale Catalog. They would like two indexes--1) titles of the books and page > numbers, and 2) names of the authors and page numbers. ......... > Also, I do not know what to charge for > a project like this. I have done a few similar projects and found them quite easy but a little time consuming with all the data input that was required. I charged an hourly rate. Estimate what your hourly rate would be based on your per page rate for a regular end-of-book index and take it from there. For the indexes, I set up a little database. Each record included fields for the title, page number and each author. Two of the projects were bibliographies; one was for a book catalog. I did the book catalog two years in a row and was able simply update the database without repeating all the input for "old" titles. (After the second time around I explained to the manager/editor of the catalog how he could do the whole shebang inhouse as one whole database with fields for the isbn, price, blurbs, and other catalog whatnots in other fields. That was a dumb thing to do. He took my advice and doesn't need me anymore.) Good luck, Melanie Edwards ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:41:33 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: HMCMURRA@IX.NETCOM.COM Subject: Do we have a message archive? Do we have a message archive? Heather ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:45:24 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Ardith B. Ayotte, RT" Subject: HELPING EACH OTHER "We are all working together to learn, teach, and help each other as we move toward a new century and new frontiers in indexing." Lori Lathrop, President American Society of Indexers Dear Indexers, With all the concern and discussion about Y2K, I thought the above quote would be edifying 8:). Let us remain in peace and be ourselves - our good selves - in the midst of the trouble that might come. "The times are never so evil that good men cannot live in them." St. Thomas More Sincerely, Ardith Ayotte Abba Index Services ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 04:58:00 +0000 Reply-To: hcalvert@macrex.cix.co.uk Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Drusilla Calvert Subject: Re: Timing of Double Entries In-Reply-To: <199903251911.TAA08532@nickel.cix.co.uk> In fact we are both talking about the same kind of double entry! In the examples Mary gives I would use motivation, of employees ^see^ employees, motivating and salespeople ^see^ employees, salespeople (or vice versa). This means that if I get another entry for "salespeople" I immediately see that I've put this under another heading, so I don't find myself with one set of entries under "salespeople" and another under "employees, salespeople" - I don't trust my memory well enough not to do this. When I've finished indexing I may decide to double-enter under "salespeople" or may move the entries from "employees" to "salespeople" and add a cross-reference from "employees" - or something else - all depending on the circumstances. Drusilla Mary said: <> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:46:34 +1100 Reply-To: diagonal@hermes.net.au Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jon & Glenda Subject: An INDEX-L Web page? In-Reply-To: References to searching the archives and the repetition of Frequently Answered Questions has led me to believe that INDEX-L needs its own Web page (or have we already got one?). At the very least it could provide a permanent link to the FAQ and to the searchable archive: in the hands of a dynamic WebMaster it could develop into a very powerful resource. If it's a question of volunteering, I'm prepared to set up a minimal site: but I have my hands full with other matters at the moment and it might be better left to someone who wants to start small and learn Web site management as they go. Jon ------------------------------ Jonathan Jermey Webmaster, Australian Society of Indexers http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:48:55 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lawrenc846@AOL.COM Subject: Paying in Advance I wonder under what circumstances people feel it appropriate to ask for a money advance for an index and if anyone can offer examples of when it was granted by publishers. A project that ties one up for several months, without any other income coming in, I should think requires a money advance. LH Feldman Lawrenc846@aol.com Indexer-Researcher-Writer ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:58:46 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Weiss Subject: Re: Index for Publisher's Catalog - Rate? You wrote: This may be a dumb question, but I've also never done two indexes for the same set of page proofs. How do I handle this with Cindex? (I'll read the whole manual some day, I promise.) Working with two indexes at the same time is very easy if you have Cindex. I do it all the time for the periodical indexes I create. If you are using Cindex for Windows, open a file for titles. Then follow the same procedure to open a second file for authors. Do not close the first file. You can change back and forth from one file to the other quite easily. Click on "Window" in the menu bar. You will get a list of files which are open. Select the file you want to work on. Take a look at p. 11 of the manual for more information. Fee free to write to me directly if you need more information about this. Sue Weiss Tax Analysts Arlington, VA sweiss@tax.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:45:58 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Debra Graf Subject: Rush Charge This relates to my earlier post regarding the rate for doing two indexes for a publisher's catalog. Thanks to all who responded. I have now been asked to do a "rush" on this job (which will require working on the indexes this weekend and day & night next week). I am charging a per- page rate for the job. Any ideas about what to tack on for a "rush" charge? My initial thought was to ask for some percentage of the expected total for the job. Does anyone have any other thoughts or methodologies they would use? This will be my first "rush" and, therefore, I don't have any past experiences on which to draw. Thanks again (and again, and again)... Debbie Graf sagewords1@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:04:25 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Ardith B. Ayotte, sfo" Subject: INDEXER'S WARNED OF TELEPHONE SCAM Dear Indexing Colleagues, I am forwarding this on to the list because it is so serious. Beware! Ardith, Abba Index Services, Virginia >> FYI.... >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ingram, Charlie >> To: 'RF0422@aol.com' >> Date: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 7:00 PM >> Subject: FW: Fwd:Telephone Scam (fwd) >> >> >Sent: Monday, March 15, 1999 8:28 PM >> >Subject: Fwd:Telephone Scam (fwd) >> > >> > >> > >> >LONG DISTANCE SCAM >> >I received a telephone call today (at home) from an individual >> >identifying >> >himself as an AT&T Service Technician who was conducting a test on >> our >> >telephone lines. He stated that to complete the test I should touch >> >nine >> >(9), zero (0), the pound sign (#) and then hang up. I was suspicious >> >> >and >> >refused. Upon contacting the telephone company, I was informed that >> by >> >pushing 90#, you give the requesting individual full access to your >> >telephone line, which allows them to place long distance telephone >> calls >> >billed to your home phone number. I was further informed that this >> scam >> >has >> >been originating from many of the local jails/prisons. I have also >> >verified >> >this information with Southern Bell, MCI and GTE. Please beware. DO >> >> >NOT >> >press 90# for ANYONE. The GTE Security Department requested I share >> >this >> >information with others. >> >PLEASE pass this on to everyone you know. If you have mailing lists >> >and/or >> >newsletters from organizations you are connected with, I encourage >> you >> >to >> >pass on this information to them, too. >> > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:04:37 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: Paying in Advance I had a very large project (6,000 page proofs) about two years ago which was to run over eight weeks. The publisher offered to let me bill every two weeks. They were very prompt with their payments (always a pleasant surprise) instead of taking the usual 30 days. This seemed to work out very well for both of us. They were assured that the work for being done in a timely fashion and I wasn't forced to wait for payment until after the work was all completed. I have been offered this kind of payment plan several times from other publishers (on large projects) and I don't think that it is an unreasonable method for both editor and indexer. Best, Sylvia Coates Lawrenc846@AOL.COM wrote: > I wonder under what circumstances people feel it appropriate to ask for a > money advance for an index and if anyone can offer examples of when it was > granted by publishers. A project that ties one up for several months, without > any other income coming in, I should think requires a money advance. > > LH Feldman > Lawrenc846@aol.com > > Indexer-Researcher-Writer ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:11:03 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: Index for Publisher's Catalog - Rate? Dear Susan, I know that your specific question refers to Cindex, however, I'd like Macrex users to know that you can also do two indexes at the same time in Macrex. I do this quite often. For example, when doing a name and subject index I will create a string (often using a macro for this) which I place before each name as I'm creating the index. The string forces the name either in front or after the subject entries (however which I chosen to do it using either aaa or zzz as the string). When I am finished I have two indexes on the same file which I happily send off to the editor. The string doesn't show up in the word processing file I've created for the editor. Works every time! I've also used this to create three indexes at the same time (name, subject, and organization). Just thought someone out there might find this useful. Best, Sylvia Coates Susan Weiss wrote: > You wrote: > > This may be a dumb question, but I've also never done two indexes for the same > set of > page proofs. How do I handle this with Cindex? (I'll read the whole manual > some day, I promise.) > > Working with two indexes at the same time is very easy if you have Cindex. I do > it all the time for the periodical indexes I create. > > If you are using Cindex for Windows, open a file for titles. Then follow the > same procedure to open a second file for authors. Do not close the first file. > You can change back and forth from one file to the other quite easily. Click on > "Window" in the menu bar. You will get a list of files which are open. Select > the file you want to work on. Take a look at p. 11 of the manual for more > information. > > Fee free to write to me directly if you need more information about this. > > Sue Weiss > Tax Analysts > Arlington, VA > sweiss@tax.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:57:48 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ilana Kingsley Subject: Re: An INDEX-L Web page? In-Reply-To: <199903260651.BAA02123@beryl.ils.unc.edu> The Index-L archives are at http://www.indexpup.com/index-list. Info regarding how to get to the archives is on the ASI web site (http://www.asindexing.org/discgrps.htm#indexlarcA ). The FAQ's for INDEX-L are also at the indexpup site. They are from 1997 and I believe someone is volunteering to update them. --Ilana Kingsley ***************************************** * Kingsley Indexing Services * * 125 Olive Branch Church Road * * Roxboro, NC 27573 * * inewby@beryl.ils.unc.edu * * http://www.indexpup.com * * (336) 597-5380 * ***************************************** On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Jon & Glenda wrote: > References to searching the archives and the repetition of Frequently > Answered Questions has led me to believe that INDEX-L needs its own Web page > (or have we already got one?). At the very least it could provide a > permanent link to the FAQ and to the searchable archive: in the hands of a > dynamic WebMaster it could develop into a very powerful resource. > > If it's a question of volunteering, I'm prepared to set up a minimal site: > but I have my hands full with other matters at the moment and it might be > better left to someone who wants to start small and learn Web site > management as they go. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:54:53 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: Re: Paying in Advance LH Feldman wrote: Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Rush Charge In-Reply-To: <199903260949.rfn7jg.l9j.37kbi15@mx7.mindspring.com> At 09:45 AM 3/26/99 -0500, you wrote: >I have now been asked to do a "rush" on this job (which will require working >on the indexes this weekend and day & night next week). I am charging a per- >page rate for the job. Any ideas about what to tack on for a "rush" charge? >My initial thought was to ask for some percentage of the expected total for >the job. Does anyone have any other thoughts or methodologies they would use? I've only ever charged a rush fee once (for a 1,200 page book done over a weekend) and the rush fee was 50% of the base rate. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:36:26 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Lane Subject: Re: INDEXER'S WARNED OF TELEPHONE SCAM Colleagues -- sorry for the strong tone of this message, but when you see the same message dancing across your screen every- where you turn, it gets a bit much. We can stop it here. ------------------------------ Ardith wrote -- >Dear Indexing Colleagues, > >I am forwarding this on to the list because it is so serious. Beware! This particular warning has been around for at least a year. If your phone system requires dialing '9' to get an outside line, then you might have to watch out for this type of thing. But if dialing '9' on your phone does not do anything like that, then the warning is meaningless. The fact that the warning says the victim was at home when he received the call should make everyone suspicious about the truth of this story. After all, how many people need to dial '9' to get an outside line AT HOME? When you see a message that urges you to blitz the Internet with copies of itself, stop and think. For further information, visit the AT&T Web site: http://www.att.com/features/0398/90pound.html where you will read that "The 9-0-# scam has been around for years and is directed at businesses, hospitals, government agencies and other organizations that use telephone switching equipment called private branch exchanges (PBXs) to handle their calls." So we don't need to send e-mails to all our friends and our professional mailing lists, do we? Karen Lane klane@digital.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:58:42 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: INDEXER'S WARNED OF TELEPHONE SCAM One more message on the topic of Internet hoaxes (or in this case, exaggerations): If you ever get a message with a virus or other warning that a) doesn't clearly identify the sender, b) uses a lot of dire language and exclamation points and c) urges you to send it to "everyone you know" or "everyone on your mailing list," you can pretty much be sure that it's a hoax. Real virus warnings are not sent broadly throughout the Internet-- if anything they are sent to specific customers or system operators. They will never tell you to send it to "everyone you know." Always, always, always verify a warning message before sending it out. Here are a couple of sites you should bookmark for researching warnings, viruses and hoaxes: http://ciac.llnl.gov/ciac/CIACHoaxes.html (The Computer Incident Advisory Capability of the US Department of Energy) http://www.urbanlegends.com/afu.faq/ (The alt.folklore.urban (AFU) newsgroup website) There are many others out there-- take advantage of them. -- Sharon W. Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:26:00 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Fwd: military hardware expert needed I've received the following request from Angelique Galskis of the University Press of Kentucky. Qualified, interested indexers should reply directly to Angelique at: agals1@pop.uky.edu Do not reply to Index-L. Angelique is not a subscriber and will not see your reply. Thank you, Craig Brown ---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ---------------- Date: 03/26 9:58 AM Received: 03/26 10:49 AM From: Angelique Cain Galskis, agals1@pop.uky.edu To: Craig Brown, lastword@i1.net Craig, Will you please let those on the indexing list know about my need for an indexer familiar with military hardware? The manuscript is estimated at about 500 pages in proof. Proof will be available by April 15, and we'll have six to eight weeks before we need the completed index. I'd like to see sample work of a similar nature and know an approximate per page price. Email contact is encouraged. Angelique ----------------- End Forwarded Message ----------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:32:42 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Robin Hilp Subject: Re: marketing phone calls Dan Connolly wrote: >editor. They're too busy to call an indexer who may >or may not be able to help them (some perceive it as >my offering to help them, some as my looking for them >to help me). If you have a great "teaser" line [...] You can *always* position yourself as being able to help them -- thus putting them in the position of accepting or declining your help, rather than ever having to choose whether to help you. (I say "always" because if you can't position yourself as "of value" to a client, you're probably wasting both your time and theirs trying to sell to them.) What are the benefits to the publisher (or to the author, if you're subcontracting)? Generating more sales of the current book because books with good indexes generally: - Get better reviews: free good advertising in the media - Are easier to use than competing books with poor/no index: good word-of-mount advertising Generating more sales of future editions and other books in the same line, by association with the good index in the original book. Build/maintain a good reputation for both publisher and author. Here's a sample voice mail. This is a well-proven marketing approach. You'd want maybe to customize it a bit for your particular area of expertise. Oh, and for goodness sake, whatever script you use, repeat it a few dozen times in the shower and to the mirror until it sounds like you talking cheerily & comfortably to a friend, not like you reading from a script (wry LOL)! "Hi, this is so-and-so, phone number x-y-z. I read some of your books on and I'm impressed with the quality of your publications! If you're interested in a service that can help boost your sales and enhance your good reputation, please call me at . I'd be very happy to work with you!" === RolyBear ICQ 1863181 (Robin Hilp) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:42:45 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Robin Hilp Subject: are web pages useful? Last call for opinions! I'll post a summary in a few days ... Please reply privately to rolybear@yahoo.com. How does your web page help you in getting business? Do you find your web page contributes to your first contact? ... to getting jobs after you've already made the contact? If you pay for web hosting separately from your basic internet access or email, does it pay for itself? If you haven't emailed me on this yet, please do so by 3/30 (Tuesday). Then I'll summarize to the list. Thanks :-) === RolyBear ICQ 1863181 (Robin Hilp) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:24:39 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: ROBJRICH@AOL.COM Subject: Re: The 90# Telephone Scam Hi, All - Regarding the supposed 90# telephone scam, Karen wrote: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Colleagues -- sorry for the strong tone of this message, but >when you see the same message dancing across your screen every- >where you turn, it gets a bit much. We can stop it here.< - - - - >So we don't need to send e-mails to all our friends and our >professional mailing lists, do we?< ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I do understand Karen's frustration at seeing "the same message dancing across your screen everywhere you turn" Yup, sure do. But just to soften her rather ...umnn.... forthright riposte, let me say that after receiving Ardith's forwarded warning this morning, I did check with AT&T Service in Massachusetts regarding this scam. The service person said that it was, in fact, real and that "the jury was still out" as to whether or not it worked in all cases. I realize that the AT&T Service answer to me is in conflict with the AT&T website posting quoted by Karen. But most prudent persons would do exactly what I did: check with AT&T service. And possibly be told, as I was this morning, that the scam is genuine. After all, Who you gonna trust if you cain't trust AT&T Service? To paraphrase the Air National Guard posters: "We all sleep better at night knowing that AT&T Service is on the job." We also know that AT&T Service speaks ex cathedra in matters of telephone technology. As for checking the AT&T website, I doubt that most people would even know that the website exists. Although it seems obvious now, I never thought of it either. But do consider, also, that the original warning said nothing about having to dial "9" for an outside line, and there was no way for Ardith (or anyone else) to know this from the content of the original scam warning, or that there might be anything suspect about the claim that this scam occurred at home.. One way or another this is not a big deal. I am posting this only to suggest that Ardith was not completely irresponsible in forwarding that warning, that no real harm was done, and that her intention simply was to be helpful. BTW, my thanks to Sharon Wright for those excellent "anti-hoax" website suggestions... Bob ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:40:43 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Lane Subject: Re: The 90# Telephone Scam Bob (as usual) posted a helpful and well-thought-out comment regarding this topic. In fact, I've considered setting up a folder to collect ALL of Bob's postings, since they seem to be so, well, collectible. Anyway, yes I agree that Ardith was not at all irresponsible in posting the message. My reply was not to suggest she had done anything wrong. The main reason I wrote was to head off the very real possibility that the message would be passed along by others on the list. As my message said, "We can stop it here." If I may be permitted one further word on these "pass- it-along" messages: very rarely (if ever) is a mailing list the appropriate forum to pass along messages of this nature, regardless of how urgent its content seems. Would anyone disagree with that? Karen Lane klane@digital.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:14:35 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Managing your (freelance) money I spent 27 years drawing a weekly paycheck, then switcehd to freelancing when I retired in '92. I never really "managed" my money when drawing a paycheck: it came in, I spent it , a week later I got more. Freelancing has been a different story. I have been of two minds about strategies. 1. When times are good, make extra payments on credit cards, prepay taxes, insuriance premiums, etc. This has the advantage of ensuring that money gets spent on necessities and does not get frittered away. The down side is reserves tend to be low. When work slows down and cash flow slows, some bills have been prepaid, but large unexpected expenses can raise havoc. 2. When times are good, make minimum payments and sock away as much as possible for a rainy day. When cash flow falters, I can live off my savings. The downside is that credit card balances tend to inflate when paying only the minimum and there is always the prospect of giving in to temptation and spending money I'll need later. I have been in mode 1 for several months: prepaid my property taxes, insurance. etc. Then a tree fell on my garage. Insurance paid for the damage, but the garage really needed a whole new roof, so I sprang for that. As long as I was putting on a new roof, it made sense to do gutters and gutter guards. As long as the contractors were on site, they might as well do the tile in the bathroom. And so it went. To the tune of $2,000 over and above the insurance settlement. I paid cash, but now I'm sitting here looking at my seriously depleted savings and wishing I had all those prepayments back in a liquid form. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:24:15 -0800 Reply-To: broccoli@briefcase.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kevin Broccoli Subject: Re: are web pages useful? For all interested: Gerry Van Ravenswaay and I are having a roundtable on this at the Indy conference. Kevin Broccoli Robin Hilp wrote: > Last call for opinions! I'll post a summary in > a few > days ... Please reply privately to rolybear@yahoo.com > . > > How does your web page help you in getting business? > Do > you find your web page contributes to your first > contact? ... to getting jobs after you've already > made > the contact? If you pay for web hosting separately > from > your basic internet access or email, does it pay > for > itself? > > If you haven't emailed me on this yet, please do > so by > 3/30 (Tuesday). Then I'll summarize to the list. > Thanks > :-) > === > RolyBear ICQ 1863181 (Robin Hilp) > > > _____________________________________________________ > ____ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo > .com > _________________________________________________________ Better than free email: shared calendar, files, and more... Get your 'Visto Briefcase' at http://www.visto.com/info ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:39:38 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: ROBJRICH@AOL.COM Subject: Be Still My Heart! Karen wrote: "Bob (as usual) posted a helpful and well-thought-out comment regarding this topic. In fact, I've considered setting up a folder to collect ALL of Bob's postings, since they seem to be so, well, collectible." Oh, Karen, Do it! Do it! - - You silver-tongued devil!! Bob ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:43:58 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Trade checks? I'm tapping the Collective Wisdom for an obscure term... Have any of you ever heard the term "trade checks?" In the Mississippi labor code, it seems to be referring to scrip or coupons given to workers instead of cash to compensate them for their labor. There are provisions prohibiting the discount of trade checks and requiring that they can only be paid in cash, which I presume is meant to address the issue of "company stores" and "company towns" that only allowed people to use scrip to pay for goods. Does anyone else have any other ideas or synonyms? Thanks! -- Sharon W. Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 20:22:32 -0000 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Re: The 90# Telephone Scam In-Reply-To: > > If I may be permitted one further word on these "pass- > it-along" messages: very rarely (if ever) is a mailing > list the appropriate forum to pass along messages of this > nature, regardless of how urgent its content seems. Would > anyone disagree with that? Yes. Well, unless it is a hoax I would have thought if a warning is urgent enough to pass on at all then broadcasting on a list gets the message around more quickly. Regards _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:42:15 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Index for Publisher's Catalog - Rate? At 08:11 AM 3/26/1999 +0000, Sylvia Coates wrote: >Dear Susan, > >I know that your specific question refers to Cindex, however, I'd like Macrex > users >to know that you can also do two indexes at the same time in Macrex. I do this > quite >often. I've done essentially the same thing, though I usually also use the utilities included with Macrex to strip out the extra character[s] and create two separate indexes. Most of my clients want the author index completely separate from the subject index. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:42:16 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Managing your (freelance) money At 02:14 PM 3/26/1999 -0500, Richard Evans wrote: >I have been in mode 1 for several months: prepaid my property taxes, >insurance. etc. Then a tree fell on my garage. Insurance paid for the >damage, but the garage really needed a whole new roof, so I sprang for >that. As long as I was putting on a new roof, it made sense to do gutters >and gutter guards. As long as the contractors were on site, they might as >well do the tile in the bathroom. And so it went. To the tune of $2,000 >over and above the insurance settlement. I paid cash, but now I'm sitting >here looking at my seriously depleted savings and wishing I had all those >prepayments back in a liquid form. Since both my husband and me are freelancers we really have to be careful and do serious planning and thinking about how to handle these unexpected events. One of the best things we ever did was, when finances looked especially "good" from a lender's POV, to apply for a large line of credit on our house at a fairly low interest rate. Not only does this give me peace of mind for emergencies, the interest (in our case, and in most--but not all--cases) is tax-deductible. Credit card interest is not, but we also have several high-limit, low-interest credit cards for "instant emergencies" that we either can't or don't want to access the LOC for. Car repairs are one example; we both drive older used cars to save money, but also have to be prepared for the occasional $500 problem that develops over a weekend and can't be anticipated. My deepest sense is that I want liquid assets for an emergency, and don't want to tie up cash in prepaid expenses. This is also the advice my accountant has given me over the years, but of course it may not apply to everybody. If you don't pay your property taxes on time, you will have a penalty (usually under $100). You can go for something like five years without paying them AT ALL before you endanger your ownership...an extremely unlikely scenario for most of us. But if I prepay my entire $3000 property tax bill and then a week later have a horrendous car problem, I am SOL. Some years ago, the company my husband had worked for for 12 years suddenly went bankrupt and he was out of a job with almost no warning. Luckily, we had just applied for a sizable line of credit on our house. He was totally unemployed for most of a year, and I went from being the provider of goodies to being our sole support. Without that LOC and the credit cards, we quite literally could not have kept things together until he got his business going. Overall, I'm glad we hadn't sunk much of our savings into prepaying expenses. But that might not work for everybody. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:07:48 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Index for Publisher's Catalog - Rate? Sylvia wrote: <<...I'd like Macrex users to know that you can also do two indexes at the same time in Macrex. I do this quite often. For example, when doing a name and subject index I will create a string (often using a macro for this) which I place before each name as I'm creating the index....When I am finished I have two indexes on the same file which I happily send off to the editor.>> You can also use a utility (included with Macrex) to strip the two (or three) indexes apart and make them into separate files. You start in the same way, by adding a string to the beginning of each entry. You can leave the indexes combined and make new separate ones if you want. It takes about two seconds! Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:14:52 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Managing your (freelance) money I found out from my tax preparer what percentage of my gross income is going to taxes (30%). When each check comes in, I deposit 30% of it into a special money market account. This means that I always have the money to pay estimated and April 15 taxes. If I earn more in a particular year than I earned the year before, the estimateds (which are based on the previous year) are lower and I earn a bunch of interest in that account. This system has worked well for the last ten years. Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:28:02 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Ardith B. Ayotte, RT" Subject: The 90# Telephone Scam & Discernment In-Reply-To: <199903262038.PAA18685@nessie.crosslink.net> At 08:22 PM 3/26/99 -0000, J.R. Sampson wrote: >> >> If I may be permitted one further word on these "pass- >> it-along" messages: very rarely (if ever) is a mailing >> list the appropriate forum to pass along messages of this >> nature, regardless of how urgent its content seems. Would >> anyone disagree with that? > >Yes. > >Well, unless it is a hoax I would have thought if a warning is urgent >enough to pass on at all then broadcasting on a list gets the >message around more quickly. > >Regards > >_John Sampson_ > Dear Friends, Since my posting what I considered an important message to help my community of Indexers is being discussed as "should she or shouldn't she?" I hope the following will be received in the spirit of friendship in which it is given. (BTW, this is FRIENDSHIP WEEK.8:) I realize that when we are working at our trade,and for some of us other trades or other large areas of interest as well, postings that don't seem important or desired to some of us on the list can be boring, tiring, irritating, pick an adjective. But nuance is a very important and wonderful part of the Human Race. 100 people can look at a painting and 100 different impressions will come forth from each individual art lover/viewer. We can agree with what we like and we can allow others their diversity of opinions. I do not want to become *nervous* about every posting I might believe to be helpful to fellow indexers or postings that sound like "stupid questions" when I am seeking the expertise and guidance of other indexers. Let us grant each other the grace that we are thinking people and we do discern before sending a post to this list. I thank Sharon for her forthrightness and hope mine will also be appreciated - no offense intended, none taken. Thanks for the responses re. this discussion. I too am grateful for the two sites to check for scams. Didn't know they existed. See? Good came of it! Ardith Abba Index Services Virginia ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:41:05 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Ardith B. Ayotte, RT" Subject: 6,000 Pages Dear Sylvia and Indexers, I am new at indexing and I was surprized to read Sylvia did 6000 pages in "over 8 weeks." My question is - what is do-able? For instance, how long should a 500 page book take, if not too technical or not too much reference work needed? My goal is to index full-time and I am wondering what is realistic as to (1)general indexing and as to (2)medical indexing? All responses appreciated. Ardith Abba Index Services ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:47:14 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Ardith B. Ayotte, RT" Subject: The 90# Telephone Scam & Discernment Sharon wrote: >> If I may be permitted one further word on these "pass- >> it-along" messages: very rarely (if ever) is a mailing >> list the appropriate forum to pass along messages of this >> nature, regardless of how urgent its content seems. Would >> anyone disagree with that? >J.R. SAMPSON replied: >Yes. > >Well, unless it is a hoax I would have thought if a warning is urgent >enough to pass on at all then broadcasting on a list gets the >message around more quickly. > >Regards > >_John Sampson_ > Now from Ardith - the party in question... Dear Friends, Since my posting what I considered an important message to help my community of Indexers is being discussed as "should she or shouldn't she?" I hope the following will be received in the spirit of friendship in which it is given. (BTW, this is FRIENDSHIP WEEK.8:) I realize that when we are working at our trade,and for some of us other trades or other large areas of interest as well, postings that don't seem important or desired to some of us on the list can be boring, tiring, irritating, pick an adjective. But nuance is a very important and wonderful part of the Human Race. 100 people can look at a painting and 100 different impressions will come forth from each individual art lover/viewer. We can agree with what we like and we can allow others their diversity of opinions. I do not want to become *nervous* about every posting I might believe to be helpful to fellow indexers or postings that sound like "stupid questions" when I am seeking the expertise and guidance of other indexers. Let us grant each other the grace that we are thinking people and we do discern before sending a post to this list. I thank Sharon for her forthrightness and hope mine will also be appreciated - no offense intended, none taken. Thanks for the responses re. this discussion. I too am grateful for the two sites to check for scams. Didn't know they existed. See? Good came of it! Ardith Abba Index Services Virginia ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:05:48 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: The 90# Telephone Scam & Discernment Just to clear up one point-- I didn't write that, Karen did. I suggested checking messages on the hoax sites before sending them, but did not state that this forum was inappropriate for passing along such messages. If in fact there is a scam, virus or serious similar issue that could affect people on the list I have no objection to sending them along or having them sent to me. I also understand that there are a lot of hoaxes and bogus warnings floating around out there on the Internet and novice users (and sometimes experienced users) are frequently taken in by them. Ardith, you are new to this list, but I've been subscribing for a couple of years now and every once in a while we get some variation of the "Join the Crew" virus warning sent to the list by a new subscriber who has just seen it for the first time and is (understandably) alarmed by it. I have a great deal of patience with that, too-- novice users are just learning about the Net and need to be told about hoaxes and how to check for them. Besides, life is short and my delete button works just fine-- it's not worth getting my undies in a knot over. :-) Incidentally, as Rob so eloquently pointed out the warning you sent was not exactly a hoax. Unlike most of the Interet hoaxes there is actually some truth to it, so it could be a legitimate concern to some subscribers and I took it in that spirit. Now, back to indexing... -- Sharon W. Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Ardith B. Ayotte, RT [SMTP:abbaindx@CROSSLINK.NET] > Sent: Friday, March 26, 1999 4:47 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: The 90# Telephone Scam & Discernment > > Sharon wrote: > >> If I may be permitted one further word on these "pass- > >> it-along" messages: very rarely (if ever) is a mailing > >> list the appropriate forum to pass along messages of this > >> nature, regardless of how urgent its content seems. Would > >> anyone disagree with that? > > >J.R. SAMPSON replied: > > >Yes. > > > >Well, unless it is a hoax I would have thought if a warning is urgent > >enough to pass on at all then broadcasting on a list gets the > >message around more quickly. > > > >Regards > > > >_John Sampson_ > > > > Now from Ardith - the party in question... > * * * * > I thank Sharon for her forthrightness and hope mine will also be > appreciated - no offense intended, none taken. > > Thanks for the responses re. this discussion. I too am grateful for the > two > sites to check for scams. Didn't know they existed. See? Good came of > it! > > Ardith > Abba Index Services > Virginia ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:32:18 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: Timing of Double Entries In-Reply-To: <199903251912.LAA18662@nccn.net> For all the reasons already stated in this thread I too double-post and multiple-post information as I index, and after years of not being able to remember in every instance to add subsequent multiple posts to all my original multiple posts, and of therefore having to check my multiple posts during final editing, I've finally found a way to do it systematically without having to rely on my memory: Create the first multiple-posting, and then to add subsequent multiple postings to it go to whichever multiple-posted heading you wish, note the common locator used in the first multiple posting, group on it, and then add the new locator to all headings showing on the screen that need it. If identifying the common locator used in the first multiple posting seems iffy, clarify this by grouping on a string that occurs in only two or more of the headings needing additional multiple posting (and if you're lucky this group will give you all the headings you need, thereby making identifying and grouping on the locator unnecessary). Besides solving the memory problem and thereby cutting out the need for checking multiple posts during final editing, this method makes it possible to speed up multiple posting by creating and using ad hoc macros for adding the new locators. Moreover, this process itself can be enhanced by having the macros finish by scrolling the added posts off the screen. All the best, Michael Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 530-272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:19:17 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: Index for Publisher's Catalog - Rate? Thank you to Do Mi and Sonsie for a great tip. Isn't it nice to share information with each other? Best, Sylvia Coates DStaub11@AOL.COM wrote: > Sylvia wrote: > > <<...I'd like Macrex users to know that you can also do two indexes at the > same time in Macrex. I do this quite often. > > For example, when doing a name and subject index I will create a string > (often > using a macro for this) which I place before each name as I'm creating the > index....When I am finished I have two indexes on the same file which I > happily send off to the editor.>> > > You can also use a utility (included with Macrex) to strip the two (or three) > indexes apart and make them into separate files. You start in the same way, by > adding a string to the beginning of each entry. You can leave the indexes > combined and make new separate ones if you want. It takes about two seconds! > > Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:35:08 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: 6,000 Pages Dear Ardith, Different types of text can be indexed at different speeds. Textbook and trade books go much faster than scholarly books. Nursing books go faster than hardcore medical books. Computer books are also different, ranging from very simple to very dense material. Also, speed is dependent upon the experience of the indexer and the speed level which has been reached by a particular indexer. I can index much faster now than I could when I started indexing (about 11 years ago). Those 6,000 pages were at a trade book level and I was able to index other projects during the same time (they were feeding me batches of pages so I'd index other books while waiting for new pages). But, I must say that it was a bear of a project and made my summer quite miserable. I made a ton of money that summer but I'm still not sure it was worth it. One does need to consider the quality of life after all. Everyone is different and there is no definite answer to your question I'm afraid. The goal is to index as quickly as possible (in order to make a good salary) while keeping up the quality of the index. In other words, if you can't produce a good index because you're trying to go too fast--you'd better slow down. I believe that most experienced indexers reach a point where they know how many jobs they can accept, and at what speed they need to index, in order to make whatever income level they need to continue indexing. And this can be different for each indexer. Please don't think that 6,000 pages in eight weeks is normal or indeed desirable. I do try to balance my life with an appropriate amount of work and play :). Best, Sylvia Coates Ardith B. Ayotte, RT wrote: > Dear Sylvia and Indexers, > > I am new at indexing and I was surprized to read Sylvia did 6000 pages in > "over 8 weeks." > > My question is - what is do-able? For instance, how long should a 500 page > book take, if not too technical or not too much reference work needed? > > My goal is to index full-time and I am wondering what is realistic as to > (1)general indexing and as to (2)medical indexing? > > All responses appreciated. > > Ardith > Abba Index Services ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 19:49:32 +0000 Reply-To: connolly@neca.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dan Connolly Organization: Word For Word Indexing and Editing Services Subject: Re: marketing phone calls Robin Hilp wrote: > > > You can *always* position yourself as being able to > help them -- thus putting them in the position of > accepting or declining your help, rather than ever > having to choose whether to help you. (I say "always" > because if you can't position yourself as "of value" to > a client, you're probably wasting both your time and > theirs trying to sell to them.) I think it's a mindset issue. Some editors don't use indexers (the author can do it!) or understand the value of indexes in general. These people aren't going to pick up the phone, incurring long-distance charges, based on any message that I could leave. I feel that I would do better to just keep trying to get them on the phone (live). Some editors do use indexers (and have a file drawer full of 38 of them). A voice-mail message is not going to land me a job ahead of them. > > What are the benefits to the publisher (or to the > author, if you're subcontracting)? > > Generating more sales of the current book because books > with good indexes generally: > - Get better reviews: free good advertising in the > media > - Are easier to use than competing books with poor/no > index: good word-of-mount advertising > > Generating more sales of future editions and other > books in the same line, by association with the good > index in the original book. > > Build/maintain a good reputation for both publisher and > author. These are all excellent points. I'm wondering how many editors have been sold by them? Can anyone speak to this issue? Are there any evangelical indexers out there who have converted wayward editors? > > Here's a sample voice mail. This is a well-proven > marketing approach. You'd want maybe to customize it a > bit for your particular area of expertise. Oh, and for > goodness sake, whatever script you use, repeat it a few > dozen times in the shower and to the mirror until it > sounds like you talking cheerily & comfortably to a > friend, not like you reading from a script (wry LOL)! > > "Hi, this is so-and-so, phone number x-y-z. I read some > of your books on index> and I'm impressed with the quality of your > publications! If you're interested in a service that > can help boost your sales and enhance your good > reputation, please call me at . > I'd be very happy to work with you!" 1. What if they already use the service? (i.e., their books already contain indexes)? 2. I find this to be deceptive at best. There is no documentation that I know of that demonstrates increased sales from including indexes. Anecdotal reports, yes, but no research. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Dan -- ============================= Daniel A. Connolly mailto:connolly@neca.com Word For Word Indexing Services http://www.wfwIndex.necaweb.com Woodstock, CT, USA ============================= ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 02:11:58 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Take Heart... Julie Grayson wrote: <<...When I make my marketing calls and get live bodies I relax, and try to be very personable - I've made many, many calls and I remember these two calls explictly. >> I've had exactly the same experience. Out of my initial 200 (?) cold calls when I started my business, the two ongoing clients I got immediately were the two with whom I end up in an extended, friendly conversation with the editor. It's happened since, too. I don't think it's a coincidence. Partly because I've managed (after a lot of initial terror) to be personable on the phone, and probably partly because they were in the market for a new indexer and so in a frame of mind to connect with me? With one of them we ended up talking about the college we both went to... Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 00:11:01 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Wyatt Subject: Vietnamese Names I am indexing a directory of Catholic religious in Australia. Names are being indexed in the form Surname, Title (ignored in filing), Forename, Order, e.g. Minogue, Rev Denis PP A surpising number have Vietnamese names, some with a "Western" forename added on. My client has asked me to treat them all as if they follow Vietnamese practice, that is (to quote Wellisch) "a family name and a given name in two parts ... Entry is ... by family name followed by the given name without a comma in between, e.g. Ngo Dinh Diem" My question is, where does the "Rev" go? Two real examples: Rev Nguyen Viet Huy SJ Rev Joseph Nguyen Ngoc-Son OFM I am to assume that "Nguyen" is the family name in both cases. In the second case, where does the "Joseph" go? Any suggestions gratefully received. Michael Wyatt Keyword Editorial Services 22 Kendall Street, Surry Hills 2010 Australia Phone 0500 539 973 Fax (02) 9331 7785 keyword@ozemail.com.au ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 08:42:06 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: need help compLETEly off topic I beg your indulgence for a sec but I know of no better way to get info than to ask this list. Anyone know the best way to send money to Canada? Someone there got something for me and we neither of us know the exchange rate or whether I can send a check or money order in US funds. If anyone can help, please contact me off line. Thanks, Rachel Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric racric ICQ 31476947 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 08:42:55 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: addendum I meant, contact me off LIST, not off line, of course. Sorry. R Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric racric ICQ 31476947 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 08:25:51 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: marketing phone calls At 07:49 PM 3/26/1999 +0000, Dan Connolly wrote: >2. I find this to be deceptive at best. There is no documentation that I know >of that demonstrates increased sales from including indexes. Anecdotal >reports, yes, but no research. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I CAN tell you that most libraries will not buy nonfiction books without indexes...even the most lightweight, "pop psych" books must now have at least a rudimentary index. This certainly does increase sales to libraries...and for many books from small publishers, library sales are the heart of the issue. I also wouldn't call Robin's script deceptive. I would prefer to say, up front, what it is I do that can help the editor sell more books, but in and of itself, IMO the script isn't deceptive. My approach to marketing telephone calls is to start with an introductory letter, not a call. I wait a week or so, then call the person. That way, my name ought to be at least vaguely familiar, and if I have to leave a voice mail message, there is more likelihood that I will get a call back. Absolute cold calling is something I simply can't do. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:33:33 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Sherman Grayson Subject: Re: Vietnamese Names --------------99805F646FCFD785FA241209 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Wyatt wrote: > Rev Nguyen Viet Huy SJ > Rev Joseph Nguyen Ngoc-Son OFM > > I am to assume that "Nguyen" is the family name in both cases. In the second > case, where does the "Joseph" go? Any suggestions gratefully received > I've been faced with this dilemma countless times. And just when I've determined there is a standard practice regarding names, inevitably an editor will change it. Regarding these particular names, I believe the standard practice (Chicago Manual) is to put the family name (Nguyen) last, followed by Rev. then first name if it has been Anglicized as in Joseph, so he would be: Ngyuen, Rev. Joseph Ngoc-Son OFM (I'm unfamiliar with OFM). Regarding names which have not been Anglicized, the family name, then given name, the Rev might be placed as such: Nguyen, Rev. Viet Huy SJ, but that violates the no comma rule of Asian names. The other option is to place a comma at the end, followed by Rev. (As a guess I would to with the former) As in all such problematic situations, a quick call to the editor is the safest bet. Julie --------------99805F646FCFD785FA241209 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Wyatt wrote: 

Rev Nguyen Viet Huy SJ
Rev Joseph Nguyen Ngoc-Son OFM

I am to assume that "Nguyen" is the family name in both cases. In the second
case, where does the "Joseph" go? Any suggestions gratefully received
I've been faced with this dilemma countless times. And just when I've determined there is a standard practice regarding names, inevitably an editor will change it. Regarding these particular names, I believe the standard practice (Chicago Manual) is to put the family name (Nguyen) last, followed by Rev. then first name if it has been Anglicized as in Joseph, so he would be: Ngyuen, Rev. Joseph Ngoc-Son OFM (I'm unfamiliar with OFM). Regarding names which have not been Anglicized, the family name, then given name, the Rev might be placed as such: Nguyen, Rev. Viet Huy SJ, but that violates the no comma rule of Asian names. The other option is to place a comma at the end, followed by Rev. (As a guess I would to with the former) As in all such problematic situations, a quick call to the editor is the safest bet.

Julie --------------99805F646FCFD785FA241209-- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:19:15 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: TBrtrm@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Index for Publisher's Catalog - Rate? With HyperIndex you can create 3 different indexes symultaneously, so the manual says. Thelda Bertram ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:42:26 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Sherman Grayson Subject: Vietnamese Names Michael Wyatt wrote: Rev Nguyen Viet Huy SJ Rev Joseph Nguyen Ngoc-Son OFM I am to assume that "Nguyen" is the family name in both cases. In the second case, where does the "Joseph" go? Any suggestions gratefully received I've been faced with this dilemma countless times. And just when I've determined there is a standard practice regarding names, inevitably an editor will change it. Regarding these particular names, I believe the standard practice (Chicago Manual) is to put the family name (Nguyen) last, followed by Rev. then first name if it has been Anglicized as in Joseph, so he would be: Ngyuen, Rev. Joseph Ngoc-Son OFM (I'm unfamiliar with OFM). Regarding names which have not been Anglicized, the family name, then given name, the Rev might be placed as such: Nguyen, Rev. Viet Huy SJ, but that violates the no comma rule of Asian names. The other option is to place a comma at the end, followed by Rev. (As a guess I would to with the former) As in all such problematic situations, a quick call to the editor is the safest bet. Julie ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 14:56:45 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PDepri5514@AOL.COM Subject: Re: payment rant alert In a message dated 3/22/99 1:50:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, DStaub11@AOL.COM writes: << When I work directly for authors, I ask them to pay me 50% up front (on reception of page proofs) and the other 50% in 30 days. No complaints about this so far. That way, even if the second half is late (as it sometimes is with authors), I've evened out my cash flow. Good luck! Do Mi >> Do Mi; I found that interesting. Do you ask for certified checks, money orders or are personal checks o.k.? Also, do you go to the trouble of getting into a contract? Thanks Patrick :-) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 15:08:02 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: Managing your (freelance) money Having managed the cash flow for my own business for 18 years, I would suggest something between these two options. First, since interest is high on charge cards, paying those debts off should be a high priority. Second, the financial advisors recommend a substantial sum in a "savings account" type fund for emergencies - equivalent to 6 months of your normal income, I believe. I put mine in a mutual fund money market since that will yield the highest interest. I never pay bills such as insurance & taxes before they are due. I keep that money in my money market account so *I* get the interest on that money - and it is not sitting in my checking account tantalizing me to spend it. Out of sight, out of mind. ;-) So, my strategy is: when times are good pay off charge cards *and* build up the money market. Use the money market for lean times & emergencies, and to temporarily hold the money I will need for those tax/insurance type bills until they are due. This has worked well for me so far.... Ann Truesdale Dick wrote: > I have been of two minds about strategies. > > 1. When times are good, make extra payments on credit cards, prepay taxes, > insuriance premiums, etc. This has the advantage of ensuring that money > gets spent on necessities and does not get frittered away. The down side > is reserves tend to be low. When work slows down and cash flow slows, some > bills have been prepaid, but large unexpected expenses can raise havoc. > > 2. When times are good, make minimum payments and sock away as much as > possible for a rainy day. When cash flow falters, I can live off my > savings. The downside is that credit card balances tend to inflate when > paying only the minimum and there is always the prospect of giving in to > temptation and spending money I'll need later. > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 15:39:39 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: payment rant alert I wrote: << << When I work directly for authors, I ask them to pay me 50% up front (on reception of page proofs) and the other 50% in 30 days. No complaints about this so far. That way, even if the second half is late (as it sometimes is with authors), I've evened out my cash flow.>> Patrick wrote: << I found that interesting. Do you ask for certified checks, money orders or are personal checks o.k.? Also, do you go to the trouble of getting into a contract?>> I accept personal checks. I guess that's a bit of a risk, but so far it's been fine. I do give them a contract: I send them two copies signed by me and ask them to sign one and send it back. It specifies that they will pay me 50% of the fee based on the projected number of indexable pages when page proofs are sent out, that the remainder of the fee is due within 30 days of index delivery, that they pay for shipping, and that the index due date is to be determined by the publisher and indexer. Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 17:03:51 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Judith W. Kip" Subject: Marketing to authors ? I have only indexed for one author -- someone I took a wild flyer= and e-mailed when I saw she was due to have a book published. Much to my= amazement she responded with some questions for me, then very creatively= researched my work (ignoring the references I sent), and hired me. She= paid me in 10 days and I couldn't have been happier with the experience. (Except that after I did the index the end notes were set in larger type which made most of my locators wrong, but that's a story for another day.= ) How do those of you who regularly work for authors get in touch with them? Judy Kip ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 19:41:18 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marlene London Subject: Off-Topic Occasionally in my personal reading or while indexing (in this case, a book on the Holocaust), I come across a statement or section that stops me dead in my tracks: "In total, during the first 88 years of this century, almost 170 million men, women, and children have been shot, beaten, tortured, knifed, burned, starved, frozen, crushed or worked to death; buried alive, drowned, hung, bombed, or killed in any other of the myriad ways governments have inflicted death on unarmed, helpless citizens and foreigners. The dead could conceivably be nearly 360 million people. It is as though our species has been devastated by a modern Black Plague. And indeed it has, but a plague of Power, not germs." This quote is from "Death by Government" by R. J. Rummell. Marlene London Profindex@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 21:21:34 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Ardith B. Ayotte, RT" Subject: Re: Vietnamese Names In-Reply-To: <199903271004.FAA04348@nessie.crosslink.net> Dear Michael in Australia, RE: Rev Nguyen Viet Huy SJ Rev Joseph Nguyen Ngoc-Son OFM I checked my Diocesan Directory. It has an index of priests, including Vietnamese. They index as follows, using your examples: Nguyen, Rev Viet Huy, SJ Nguyen, Rev Joseph Ngoc-Son, OFM SJ and OFM are initials of the Orders they belong to (Society of Jesus and Order of Friars Minor, respectively) and would always go at the end of the indexed name. The comma at the end of a name and before the Order's initials is common usage. However, you did not include commas in your example. Thus, the list to be indexed might not be using the comma before the initials? You said the title is "ignored in filing," and if this means you are simply adding a "Rev." before each name because you *assume* they are all priests, this could pose a problem. In religious orders, there are Deacons, Bishops, and Brothers (who are not Priests.) Deacons are Rev. Mr. and Bishops are Most. Rev. If I misunderstood your quote, then ignore this paragraph, too.8:) Hope this helps. Ardith Ayotte, RT ABBA Index Services Virginia, USA At 12:11 AM 3/27/99 -0800, you wrote: >I am indexing a directory of Catholic religious in Australia. Names are >being indexed in the form Surname, Title (ignored in filing), Forename, >Order, e.g. > >Minogue, Rev Denis PP > >A surpising number have Vietnamese names, some with a "Western" forename >added on. My client has asked me to treat them all as if they follow >Vietnamese practice, that is (to quote Wellisch) "a family name and a given >name in two parts ... Entry is ... by family name followed by the given name >without a comma in between, e.g. Ngo Dinh Diem" > >My question is, where does the "Rev" go? > >Two real examples: > >Rev Nguyen Viet Huy SJ >Rev Joseph Nguyen Ngoc-Son OFM > >I am to assume that "Nguyen" is the family name in both cases. In the second >case, where does the "Joseph" go? Any suggestions gratefully received. > >Michael Wyatt >Keyword Editorial Services >22 Kendall Street, Surry Hills 2010 Australia >Phone 0500 539 973 Fax (02) 9331 7785 >keyword@ozemail.com.au > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 01:22:58 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: ROBJRICH@AOL.COM Subject: Real Computer Virus ? Hi - This was on AOL tonight. I don't know anything more about it than this news brief. It appears to be real... Bob ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Experts Warn of Computer Virus PITTSBURGH (AP) -- A new computer virus can allow documents to be e-mailed to other people without warning, a potential security breach that should worry businesses and governments, an expert at Carnegie Mellon University said today. The ``Melissa macro'' or W97M--Melissa virus spreads via infected e- mail and attacks computers loaded with Microsoft's widely used Word 97 or Word 2000 programs, according to CERT -- or Computer Emergency Response Team -- Carnegie Mellon's Department of Defense-funded computer security team. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 23:14:33 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeff & Pat Bongard Subject: Re: Real Computer Virus ? Hi All; Bob's "real computer virus" concern also appeared on CNN this evening. CNN mentioned an e-mail file, entitled 'list.doc'. They went on to say opening this file would copy files onto the recepient's computer. Jeff -----Original Message----- From: ROBJRICH@AOL.COM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Saturday, March 27, 1999 10:24 PM Subject: Real Computer Virus ? >Hi - > >This was on AOL tonight. I don't know anything more about it than this news >brief. It appears to be real... > >Bob >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >Experts Warn of Computer Virus > >PITTSBURGH (AP) -- A new computer virus can allow documents to be e-mailed to >other people without warning, a potential security breach that should worry >businesses and governments, an expert at Carnegie Mellon University said >today. The ``Melissa macro'' or W97M--Melissa virus spreads via infected e- >mail and attacks computers loaded with Microsoft's widely used Word 97 or Word >2000 programs, according to CERT -- or Computer Emergency Response Team -- >Carnegie Mellon's Department of Defense-funded computer security team. >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 23:38:33 -0800 Reply-To: ljm2001@mindspring.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LJM Subject: Re: Real Computer Virus ? ROBJRICH@AOL.COM wrote: > > Hi - > > This was on AOL tonight. I don't know anything more about it than this news > brief. It appears to be real... > > Bob > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Experts Warn of Computer Virus > > PITTSBURGH (AP) -- A new computer virus can allow documents to be e-mailed to > other people without warning, a potential security breach that should worry > businesses and governments, an expert at Carnegie Mellon University said > today. The ``Melissa macro'' or W97M--Melissa virus spreads via infected e- > mail and attacks computers loaded with Microsoft's widely used Word 97 or Word > 2000 programs, according to CERT -- or Computer Emergency Response Team -- > Carnegie Mellon's Department of Defense-funded computer security team. You can read about the virus at: http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/mailissa.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 22:11:04 +1000 Reply-To: diagonal@hermes.net.au Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jon & Glenda Subject: Re: INDEXERS WARNED OF TELEPHONE SCAM In-Reply-To: Sharon Wright wrote: > If you ever get a message with a virus or other warning that a) doesn't > clearly identify the sender, b) uses a lot of dire language and > exclamation > points and c) urges you to send it to "everyone you know" or "everyone on > your mailing list," you can pretty much be sure that it's a hoax. > Other giveaways are: Technically impossible consequences: "This virus operates by destroying your monitor, which causes your modem to explode and burn a hole in your desk..." Meaningless jargon: "This virus blocks the XYZ pipeline, causing a negative charge to build up in the memory sink and convert stored information to chard..." In a nutshell - IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND IT, DON'T PASS IT ON. Jon. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 12:44:49 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barry Rofman Organization: @Home Network Subject: Textbook indexing Hi all, I see from my copy of "Starting an Indexing Business" that many of you index textbooks. I know trade books have a late summer and early spring blitz. When is the most work available with texts? What's the best way to identify publishers to target? I'm near a major university. Would crusing the aisles of the textbook section and noting publishers be of use? I'm completing a basic indexing course and have a background in the social sciences. I had hoped to focus on scholarly books but cicumstances have changed and I need the greater income I understand is available doing textbooks. Thanks for any and all advice. Rebecca Rofman ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 13:26:30 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barry Rofman Organization: @Home Network Subject: Re: Textbook indexing To clarify what I'm talking about" I'm looking for work on "standard texts" not university presses. I was wondering if the university bookstore, where the students buy their texts, might be a good resource to check out the publishers of those texts. For university presses I have a copy of the American Association of University Presses and I intended to start with that to gather the names of scholarly publishers in my fields. Rebecca ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 16:19:26 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: URGENT question about CINDEX .rtf export Hello collective wisdom, Today for some reason when I export a CINDEX for WINDOWS file (not that big, about 2000 entries) to Word, I only get about 1/3 of the file in Word. The CINDEX program says it is completely saved as .rtf. I have tried everything I can think of, so I need some quick input. What is going on??? I have enough memory on my computer! Thanks. Cynthia Bertelsen ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen Bertelsen Indexing and Editorial Services cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.usit.com/cbertel/ "When we no longer have good cooking in the world, we will have no literature, nor high and sharp intelligence, nor friendly gatherings, no social harmony."=20 --Car=EAme ****************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 16:44:32 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Textbook indexing Rebecca wrote: << I'm looking for work on "standard texts" not university presses. I was wondering if the university bookstore, where the students buy their texts, might be a good resource to check out the publishers of those texts. >> Yes, this would be an excellent way to come up with names of textbook companies. There aren't all that many of them these days because of consolidations! The other trend is that many textbook companies are using production/packaging companies (many of whom are freelancers), so you have to market yourself to those smaller companies. This is excellent work to begin with; in fact, even if you want to do scholarly indexing eventually I would recommend starting with textbooks, because they're much easier. You're also right that they pay better. On the other hand, it's harder to break in because (I think) there are more indexers who want to do textbook indexing than scholarly. Lastly, if you've just finished an indexing course, make sure you've done practice indexes for a bunch of books (and gotten them critiqued if possible) before you market yourself. Good luck! Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 17:01:38 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Macrex Support Office Subject: Re: URGENT question about CINDEX .rtf export In a message dated 3/28/1999 1:22:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, Cynthia Bertelsen writes: << Today for some reason when I export a CINDEX for WINDOWS file (not that big, about 2000 entries) to Word, I only get about 1/3 of the file in Word. The CINDEX program says it is completely saved as .rtf. I have tried everything I can think of, so I need some quick input. What is going on??? I have enough memory on my computer! >> This has nothing to do with memory. For whatever reason, Cindex has put an extra close curly brace ( } ) into the index at the point where it stops loading. Use Notepad or DOS Edit to open the file and remove the close curly brace. Be careful to make no other alterations in the file before saving it. Return to Word and it should open normally. Gale Rhoades Macrex Support Office, North America voice: 650-756-0821 fax: 650-757-1567 Wise Bytes P. O. Box 3051 Daly City, CA 94015 macrex@aol.com www.macrex.cix.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 16:05:03 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: URGENT question about CINDEX .rtf export On 3/28/1999 3:19 PM Cynthia Bertelsen wrote (in part): >Today for some reason when I export a CINDEX for WINDOWS file (not that big, >about 2000 entries) to Word, I only get about 1/3 of the file in Word. The >CINDEX program says it is completely saved as .rtf. I have tried everything >I can think of, so I need some quick input. Narrow it down to whether Cindex caused the problem or Word. Try to open the rtf file using Notepad (if Win 3.x) or QuickView Plus (if W95 or >). If you can see all of the rtf file that way, the problem is most likely with Word. Or, if you have another word-processing program like WordPerfect, even an older version, try opening the file with that. Let us know what happens with the above. hth, Craig Brown ===================================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing http://www.i1.net/~lastword (314)352-9094 fax: (314)481-9254 ===================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 18:51:14 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: URGENT question about CINDEX .rtf export In-Reply-To: <199903281622.rft7co.nlf.37kbi15@mx7.mindspring.com> At 04:19 PM 3/28/99 -0500, you wrote: >Hello collective wisdom, > >Today for some reason when I export a CINDEX for WINDOWS file (not that big, >about 2000 entries) to Word, I only get about 1/3 of the file in Word. The >CINDEX program says it is completely saved as .rtf. I have tried everything >I can think of, so I need some quick input. > >What is going on??? I have enough memory on my computer! > It's usually a Cindex control character that also means "end of file" to RTF. Look at the last Cindex record that appears in the RTF file and see if you have any special characters in there. I vaguely remember it being a backslash. I think it happened to me: I had a backslash as a literal character in a Cindex entry. In order for Cindex to treat it as a literal, I had to make it a double backslash. RTF treated a double backslash as an EOF character. I solved the problem by making it a *triple* backslash in Cindex. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 18:51:30 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Cohen Subject: Double-Postings (more comments) On the double-posting questions (when and how) that came up earlier this week: I was frustrated that I couldn't reconstruct a good example of what I see in most of the double-posts that I create in scholarly texts: situations in which complete rewriting of the subheads is necessary because of the other subheads or because of overlapping meanings of some terms or because of variable audiences that might use each access point. Well, I knew I would soon come across an example of what I do while I work, to clarify why I don't feel I can leave the double-posting until the end. So here it is. (I thought the comments went strongly in the direction of double- posting as we go, but I still feel like there's a lingering sense in the literature that double-posts should or could happen as one step in the edit stage.) So, from today's text (on the political discourse of silk weavers and cotton spinners in 19th-century England): silk industry: repeal of protectionism in, 102-107 Spitalfields Acts: repeal's effect on silk industry, 102-107 protectionism. SEE ALSO Spitalfields Acts When writing these three entries as I go through the text, I see an argument for using the first subhead (rather than "repeal of Spitalfields Acts in") as an entry clearer for someone not yet familiar with the Spitalfields Acts (a series of protective laws that governed the wages of English silk weavers). In other words, I make the entry more general by using a word not specific to the sentence I am indexing but implied in the rest of the text. However, for someone already familar with the Spitalfields Acts, that (the second example) entry has a subhead for the effect of repeal on the silk industry (note: because there is a whole chapter about the political pros and cons of repeal, the participants in the debate, and so forth, a subhead for "repeal of" isn't clear enough to include the specific discussion about the effect on the silk industry. And since the book also talks about the cotton industry, I am trying to include subheads that clarify the two industries as much as possible). Finally, I suddenly see that I need a cross-reference from protectionism, the "subject" entry, to "Spitalfields Acts," an entry that is a specific protectionist law. So I add it now to remind myself that I want to use it (rather than waiting until the edit stage to write my cross-references, by which time I might forget to use this one). Perhaps this is a case of "triple-posting": using three linked entries to cover information about a general term, a specific law, and a context. Somehow, I don't think of this kind of thing when I see the usual double- posting examples in indexing texts. And yet there really isn't any other term for what is an alternate entry for the same range of pages and the same information, which to me defines one kind of double-post. In scholarly books, topics like this that have more than one subject category, one or two specific objects, and contextual entries are fairly common. Anyway, that's a pretty good example of the kind of specific information I wouldn't be able to recall after 7 days, when I might get to the formal/final edit stage. Even though some of the indexing literature talks as though we edit at the end, I think of this as editing the index as I go, and I do it on each page, as well as at the end of each chapter and again at the end of each work day. Most of the "editing an index" literature talks as though this is a process that happens at one time, but for me, it is continuous. I believe that it was Do Mi who alluded to the same tendency when she works. So, is this true just for scholarly books or for general trade ones, textbooks, and manuals? Is the edit stage ever a separate process except in texts for which the indexer might not see the whole book in order or all at once (in which case one has no choice but to edit heavily at the end, in my experience)? Rules that suggest "create entries," then "edit entries" (as separate steps) are very misleading for beginning indexers! I think the consensus here was that few of us work that way--in fact indexing and editing the index happen at the same time. Furthermore, that's what I love about using CINDEX: I can see the index as it grows, edit more and better, and I think my indexes are stronger for it than they were years ago when I had to write entries (on cards or whatever), then edit at the end and rely on memory to construct good connections (x-refs, double-posts, etc.). Anyway, I thought I'd clarify this thought for the new indexers online: beware the simple interpretation of "rules" or guidelines that delineate mental processes. Barbara E. Cohen Indianapolis, IN ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 19:20:29 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: URGENT question about CINDEX .rtf export Well, I know what it is now and will be able to figure it out myself from now on...thanks to Gale Rhoades, the Macrex rep. Gale took my file which I sent as an .rtf file to her and found the coding problem, fixed it, and sent it back to me. What a lady!=20 I had a subscript that I was using inside of curly brackets to force a sort and I didn't see that the curly bracket on the subscript side was also a subscript rather than a full-size character. SO...the moral of the story is to do like Dick says and Gale says, check what the stuff looks like at where the file stops. This happened in three places (as I had multi-posted the darn thing the same way three times!). AARGH! It was a breeze to fix in CINDEX once I knew what it was.=20 Live and learn. It has never happened before, but hey, this week has been one like I have never had before, either. Thanks to Gale, Dick, Craig, and Ilana for all their advice! Cynthia At 06:51 PM 3/28/99 -0500, Richard Evans wrote: >At 04:19 PM 3/28/99 -0500, you wrote: >>Hello collective wisdom, >> >>Today for some reason when I export a CINDEX for WINDOWS file (not that= big, >>about 2000 entries) to Word, I only get about 1/3 of the file in Word. The >>CINDEX program says it is completely saved as .rtf. I have tried= everything >>I can think of, so I need some quick input. >> >>What is going on??? I have enough memory on my computer! >> > >It's usually a Cindex control character that also means "end of file" to >RTF. Look at the last Cindex record that appears in the RTF file and see >if you have any special characters in there. I vaguely remember it being a >backslash. > >I think it happened to me: I had a backslash as a literal character in a >Cindex entry. In order for Cindex to treat it as a literal, I had to make >it a double backslash. RTF treated a double backslash as an EOF character. > I solved the problem by making it a *triple* backslash in Cindex. > >Dick > > ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen Bertelsen Indexing and Editorial Services cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.usit.com/cbertel/ "When we no longer have good cooking in the world, we will have no literature, nor high and sharp intelligence, nor friendly gatherings, no social harmony."=20 --Car=EAme ****************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 19:34:12 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine C Carr Subject: Re: INDEX-L Digest - 26 Mar 1999 to 27 Mar 1999 Hi-- Are there any experts on RoboHELP out there? I have just received a project at work, and have spent about an hour trying to learn the software...Now I have to try to figure out why it will not compile our help files (imported by someone else). TIA, Chris Carr ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]