Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9903E" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 01:59:00 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Real Computer Virus ? In-Reply-To: <199903290506.XAA25324@mixcom.mixcom.com> The story was also in the New York Times, so my guess is it's real. The article said you can avoid the problem by simply not opening the document "list.doc" (i.e., just trash it). BTW, it will be attached to an e-mail message that will appear to come from someone *you know* (because the virus grabbed your e-mail address from the address book of someone you know, without their knowledge). Cute, huh? Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:20:05 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Field, Susan (S.)" Subject: Thesaurus vs. lexicon I am still trying to understand the difference between thesauri and lexicons. In my mind, thesauri terms only have one *parent* term. I have seen structures in a database where a term can have more than one, which to me represents a matrix, versus a heirarcical structure (Questor's Argus--a museum collection management software product). Or is the difference between lexicons and thesauri in the metadata and not in the structure? As corporate archivists, it is important for us to use a controlled vocabulary to index our collection--the volume of our collection requires it. Your comments on-list or off-list are greatly appreciated. Susan Field sfield3@ford.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:37:24 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Melissa virus-- From the MSNBC website You better believe it's real-- we got hit with it. It's a great way to shut down your email servers in a hurry. This is from the MSNBC site-- take care! -- Sharon W. Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com > 'Melissa' macro worms around Web > > E-mail Word attachment called list.doc contains virus/worm that sends > copies of itself around Net > > By Bob Sullivan > MSNBC > > March 27- If you receive an e-mail with the subject line "Important > message from ... ," be suspicious. If that message comes with a Word > document attached called "list.doc," you've likely been sent the > Word/Melissa macro virus. And if you open the document, it will send 50 > copies of itself to several e-mail addresses it gleans from your personal > e-mail. That gives it the ability to propagate very quickly - much quicker > than the happy99.exe worm, according to virus experts. > > IF YOU'VE BEEN infected, don't feel bad - experts think hundreds of > thousands of PCs might have been infected in the two days the virus has > been "in the wild." > > The document itself contains a list of 73 pornographic Web sites, along > with usernames and passwords for those sites. The virus may have been > unleashed on the world Friday - it contains the text "Password List for > March 26, 1999." > > The virus can allow documents to be e-mailed to other people without > warning, a potential security breach that should worry businesses and > governments, an expert at Carnegie Mellon University said Saturday. > > "Melissa" spreads via infected e-mail and attacks computers loaded with > Microsoft's widely used Word 97 or Word 2000 programs, according to CERT - > or Computer Emergency Response Team - Carnegie Mellon's Department of > Defense-funded computer security team. > > CERT first heard of the virus Friday afternoon and its members worked > through the night to analyze the virus and develop a fix, CERT manager > Katherine Fithen said. > > "We're getting so many reports from across the world., that we know this > is going to be a huge problem come Monday," Fithen said. > > She noted that since CERT was founded 10 years ago, this is only the > second time it has considered a virus important enough to warrant a public > announcement. The first, in 1994, warned of a virus that allowed computer > burglars to collect passwords. > > SPREADING RAPIDLY > CERT has not determined where the Melissa virus originated. > > Fithen said she is not allowed to say whether any governmental agency has > suffered a security breach as the result of Melissa. > > Friday, a spokesman from Network Associates said the company received one > e-mail every three minutes starting at 8 a.m. from clients complaining > about the file. > > "It's spreading much faster than happy99," he said. > > About 60,000 users were infected at the company which made the first > complaint, said Srivhes Sampath, general manager of McAfee Online. "It > pretty much brings mail systems to a halt ... We've never seen anything > spread like this." > > The Melissa macro is spreading so fast for two reasons; it sends 50 copies > of itself out after it infects a user; and, it is often able to fool > potential victims into thinking the mail came from a trusted source. > > After infecting a user, the macro reads the victim's registry and gleans > the user's name. It then sends 50 copies of itself to e-mail addresses > included in that user's address book. The subject line of those mails > includes the infected user's name (it reads "Important message from [user > name]"), which often tricks potential victims into trusting the message > and opening the attached document, according to Network Associates. > > > The user does not know he or she is infected until an e-mail recipient > complains. > > "Word/Melissa written by Kwyjibo," is the text that accompanies the macro. > The author also pokes fun at virus writers who he or she expects will > argue about the exact classification of the pest, as often happens. "Works > in both Word 2000 and Word 97. Worm? Macro Virus? Word 97 Virus? Word 2000 > Virus? You Decide!" > > Kwyjibo appears to be a reference to a "Simpsons" TV show episode in which > Bart Simpson wins a Scrabble game by spelling out the word Kwyjibo. The > virus also includes a line from that episode: "Twenty-two points, plus > triple-word-score, plus fifty points for using all my letters. Game's > over. I'm outta here." > > The Associated Press contributed to this report. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:06:51 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Mullinix Subject: Re: Thesaurus vs. lexicon In-Reply-To: <199903291427.JAA13947@mail.accessa.net> At 09:20 AM 03/29/99 -0500, you wrote: > >Your comments on-list or off-list are greatly appreciated. > >Susan Field >sfield3@ford.com > Please make discussion of this subject on list; I am very interested too. Barbara Mullinix Beeline Index Writing Service Emmitsburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:03:03 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "M. Jessie Barczak" Subject: Re: Thesaurus vs. lexicon At 10:06 AM 3/29/99 -0500, you wrote: >At 09:20 AM 03/29/99 -0500, you wrote: >> >>Your comments on-list or off-list are greatly appreciated. >> >>Susan Field >>sfield3@ford.com >> >Please make discussion of this subject on list; I am very interested too. >Barbara Mullinix >Beeline Index Writing Service >Emmitsburg, MD > > I would appreciate some on-line comments too ... I think this is of interest to everyone. M. J. Barczak Washington, D.C. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 08:12:58 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Word indexers Hi all, I would like to compile a list of freelance indexers who can work in Word. If you are have Word indexing experience, and would like to be on my list, please send an email message to wordindex@wrightinformation.com. Please only send email if you _already_ have Word indexing experience, not if you are looking to learn it, or are trying to learn it. Thanks, Jan Wright +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Wright Information Indexing Services http://www.wrightinformation.com Jancw@wrightinformation.com +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 08:17:49 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: WinHelp/HTML help indexing Hi all, I apologize for repeating this almost word for word, but am looking for another different set of people.... This time I would like to compile a list of freelance indexers who can work in WinHelp or HTMLHelp. If you are have this kind of indexing experience, and would like to be on my list, please send an email message to winhelpndx@wrightinformation.com. Please only send email if you _already_ have WinHelp/HTMLHelp indexing experience, not if you are looking to learn it, or are trying to learn it. Thanks, Jan Wright +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Wright Information Indexing Services http://www.wrightinformation.com Jancw@wrightinformation.com +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 08:21:21 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: frame indexers Hi all, And a third request..... I would like to compile a list of freelance indexers who can work in Frame. If you are have Frame indexing experience, and would like to be on my list, please send an email message to frame@wrightinformation.com. Please only send email if you _already_ have Frame indexing experience, not if you are looking to learn it, or are trying to learn it. You should also include what version of frame, and what platform you are running it on. I'm compiling these lists in order to be able to refer clients who are looking for particular tool experience, in case you are wondering.... Thanks, Jan Wright +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Wright Information Indexing Services http://www.wrightinformation.com Jancw@wrightinformation.com +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 08:28:01 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Funny Twist on Author Index I was notified this morning that a book I am currently indexing will require an author index. It's a short book, without TOO many of those pesky names in parens, but still...I was annoyed, to say the least. (I had discovered a clue to this problem while examining the previous index over the weekend. It contained what appeared to be author names, but none of the pages I was currently working on could be used to track down the entries to be certain.) My editor apologized profusely and said that since the bibliography would not be available right away, that SHE would handle collecting all first initials/names and entering them into the index file. In other words, all I have to do is type Smith, 251, and move on! How she will untangle this, I don't know...probably the same way I would have, with an agonizing trip to the biblio for virtually every reference. I am not getting paid extra to do the "author index," in this case, but the original rate was quite handsome to begin with...and I am also NOT doing the dreary checking of first names. My editor is doing the dirty work, essentially, and I am getting paid well to avoid 75% of the mess. I could get used to this... =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:41:29 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Schroeder Subject: Re: Word indexers Jan, when you get these lists compiled, could you send Bonnie a list. I suspect that it would be very useful to her when she gets requests for indexers. sandi -----Original Message----- From: Jan C. Wright To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Monday, March 29, 1999 10:20 AM Subject: Word indexers >Hi all, > >I would like to compile a list of freelance indexers who can work in Word. >If you are have Word indexing experience, and would like to be on my list, >please send an email message to wordindex@wrightinformation.com. Please >only send email if you _already_ have Word indexing experience, not if you >are looking to learn it, or are trying to learn it. > >Thanks, > >Jan Wright > >+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= >Wright Information Indexing Services >http://www.wrightinformation.com >Jancw@wrightinformation.com >+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 08:56:29 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: Word indexers In-Reply-To: <199903291150.rfvbqo.qet.37kbi16@mx8.mindspring.com> I would be happy to send this on to Bonnie... This kind of information would be great to have indexed in the Locator, by the way. Jan At 10:41 AM 3/29/99 -0600, you wrote: >Jan, when you get these lists compiled, could you send Bonnie a list. I >suspect that it would be very useful to her when she gets requests for >indexers. > >sandi >-----Original Message----- >From: Jan C. Wright >To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L >Date: Monday, March 29, 1999 10:20 AM >Subject: Word indexers > > >>Hi all, >> >>I would like to compile a list of freelance indexers who can work in Word. >>If you are have Word indexing experience, and would like to be on my list, >>please send an email message to wordindex@wrightinformation.com. Please >>only send email if you _already_ have Word indexing experience, not if you >>are looking to learn it, or are trying to learn it. >> >>Thanks, >> >>Jan Wright >> >>+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= >>Wright Information Indexing Services >>http://www.wrightinformation.com >>Jancw@wrightinformation.com >>+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= >> > +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Wright Information Indexing Services http://www.wrightinformation.com Jancw@wrightinformation.com +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 07:35:16 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Back Words Indexing Subject: Marketing Indexes to Freelance Packagers (was Textbook indexing ) In-Reply-To: <31f3c1d4.36fea2c0@aol.com> >The other trend is that many textbook companies are using >production/packaging companies (many of whom are freelancers), so you >have to market yourself to those smaller companies. I was accidentally found by a freelance packager/editor because he is a quilting friend's husband and I had given her my card when we traded phone numbers. He is not listed in the yellow or white pages (she is), nor is his company, so I would never have been able to market to him. I've also heard of three or four other local freelance packager/editors in the area and I have the same problem actually finding them. Any ideas on how to reach these folks? Martha BWI ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:15:38 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: Managing your (freelance) money Hi, This post was bounced back to me for some reason. My apologies if I am posting it twice. I also forgot to say that Sonsie's suggestion of getting a line of credit on your home, if you own one, is a good idea for emergency cash. I have one but haven't needed to use it so far. Having managed the cash flow for my own business for 18 years, I would suggest something between these two options. First, since interest is high on charge cards, paying those debts off should be a high priority. Second, the financial advisors recommend a substantial sum in a "savings account" type fund for emergencies - equivalent to 6 months of your normal income, I believe. I put mine in a mutual fund money market since that will yield the highest interest. I never pay bills such as insurance & taxes before they are due. I keep that money in my money market account so *I* get the interest on that money - and it is not sitting in my checking account tantalizing me to spend it. Out of sight, out of mind. ;-) So, my strategy is: when times are good pay off charge cards *and* build up the money market. Use the money market for lean times & emergencies, and to temporarily hold the money I will need for those tax/insurance type bills until they are due. This has worked well for me so far.... Ann Truesdale Dick wrote: > I have been of two minds about strategies. > > 1. When times are good, make extra payments on credit cards, prepay taxes, > insuriance premiums, etc. This has the advantage of ensuring that money > gets spent on necessities and does not get frittered away. The down side > is reserves tend to be low. When work slows down and cash flow slows, some > bills have been prepaid, but large unexpected expenses can raise havoc. > > 2. When times are good, make minimum payments and sock away as much as > possible for a rainy day. When cash flow falters, I can live off my > savings. The downside is that credit card balances tend to inflate when > paying only the minimum and there is always the prospect of giving in to > temptation and spending money I'll need later. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:37:42 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Amber Swope Subject: Looking for professional indexers In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990329082121.00721790@pop.mindspring.com> in Seattle and Milwaukee! Hi there, Our UE team has decided that we need to upgrade our indexes and we want to get some outside input. We're looking for a professional indexer who: - Knows how to index both online and hard copy material - Knows how to use Frame and RoboHelp - Knows WinHelp and HTML - Is familiar with MSDN If you fit this criteria and are located in Seattle, WA or Milwaukee, WI, please contact Amber Swope (aswope@rational.com). Thanks, Amber Swope Sr. Project Manager Rose Business Unit User Education Rational Software aswope@rational.com 425-556-9564 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:41:13 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary Mortensen Subject: Re: Marketing Indexes to Freelance Packagers (was Textbook indexing ) Martha asked about packagers: > Any ideas on how to reach these folks? I hope we'll get some ideas at the panel on Packagers at the Indianapolis conference. (A shameless plug from the moderator ;-) ) And I'm sure there will be opportunities to introduce yourself to the panel members. We will also learn more about how packagers work with publishers. Seriously, there is a section in LMP that lists these companies or individuals (if they want to be listed). I think it's under Editorial Services. Otherwise, referrals are how I have made contact with freelance production editors (one got my name from a contact at one of my clients). I've also known two employees of clients who went freelance, and both kept calling me for short while. One then got a regular job again (where she didn't need indexers) , and I don't know what has happened to the other. Guess I need to get back in touch with her. Mary -- * Mary Mortensen * marymort@aol.com * Lawrence, Kansas, USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:49:15 +0000 Reply-To: connolly@neca.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dan Connolly Organization: Word For Word Indexing and Editing Services Subject: Re: Marketing Indexes to Freelance Packagers Back Words Indexing wrote: > > I was accidentally found by a freelance packager/editor because he is a quilting > friend's husband and I had given her my card when we traded phone numbers. He > is not listed in the yellow or white pages (she is), nor is his company, so I > would never have been able to market to him. I've also heard of three or four > other local freelance packager/editors in the area and I have the same problem > actually finding them. > > Any ideas on how to reach these folks? This is a hot topic for me, too. I landed the index to a spec. ed textbook by happenstance. I sent marketing materials to the publisher. One of the editors came across my stuff and contracted with me because the packager for that textbook lives in my rural small town. What luck... Writer's Market has a listing of about 40 or so packagers. But other than that, I don't know of any listings. And mine is not in the yellow pages or anything either. Being a rather bold person, I'll probably ask this packager how to reach others. On a slightly different note, this reaffirms my belief that, despite the global economy, internet and e-mail access, and overnight delivery--despite all these things--people still like to work with locals (regionals if need be). Consequently, I'm on a crusade to market my services to every publisher in New England. Dan -- ============================= Daniel A. Connolly mailto:connolly@neca.com Word For Word Indexing Services http://www.wfwIndex.necaweb.com Woodstock, CT, USA ============================= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:13:04 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Robin Hilp Subject: Re: marketing phone calls Dan Connolly wrote: >Robin Hilp wrote: > >[A script for "selling an interview"] > >>[...] If you're interested in a service that >> can help boost your sales and enhance your good >> reputation, please call me at . > >1. What if they already use the service? (i.e., their >books already contain indexes)? Then, once they "buy" the interview with you (aka trade their time for the value of interviewing you), you have only to sell them on the benefit of hiring *you* rather than some other indexer. As opposed to also having to sell them on the value of including an index in the first place. >2. I find this to be deceptive at best. There is no >documentation that I know of that demonstrates >increased sales from including indexes. Anecdotal >reports, yes, but no research. Please correct me if >I'm wrong. Earlier in this exchange, I stated and you agreed as follows: >> What are the benefits to the publisher (or to the >> author, if you're subcontracting)? >> >> Generating more sales of the current book because >> books with good indexes generally: >> - Get better reviews: free good advertising in the >> media >> - Are easier to use than competing books with >>poor/no index: good word-of-mouth advertising >> >> Generating more sales of future editions and other >> books in the same line, by association with the good >> index in the original book.> >> Build/maintain a good reputation for both publisher >>and author. > >These are all excellent points. I'm wondering how >many editors have been sold by them? I suspect any increase in sales from including indexes is almost entirely due to "word of mouth" -- reviews, critiques, satisfied customers of specific books, and reputation of the publisher and author. I don't know whether there has been any formal research done on the effect of "word of mouth" on sales in any field -- indexing services, books, or otherwise. However, "word of mouth" is generally accepted & believed in as an important publicity channel. If you have reliable anecdotal evidence that books are sometimes sold (or left on the shelf) according to the presence and quality of an index, IMHO it's not at all deceptive to bring that point up in trying to sell your services as an indexer. In any case, if you're concerned about the ethics of selling your services as an indexer, ask yourself this: "Am I offering something that I believe to be of value to this client? Am I asking, in return, a fair price for my services?" If you can answer "yes", then all that remains is for your client to agree with you. After you've answered "yes" to the above question, ask yourself "why?" The answers to "why" are what you have to teach your client. The process of believing in yourself and in your services and then conveying that belief to others is called "selling". And -- getting back to the original question of voice mail, cold calling, etc. -- in order to convey your beliefs to the client, you first have to "sell the interview". === RolyBear ICQ 1863181 (Robin Hilp) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:26:22 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Schroeder Subject: Re: Word indexers Jan, I will file this away for the next edition. Unfortunately, it is too late to get it into this year's. sandi -----Original Message----- From: Jan C. Wright To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Monday, March 29, 1999 11:03 AM Subject: Re: Word indexers >I would be happy to send this on to Bonnie... This kind of information >would be great to have indexed in the Locator, by the way. > >Jan > >At 10:41 AM 3/29/99 -0600, you wrote: >>Jan, when you get these lists compiled, could you send Bonnie a list. I >>suspect that it would be very useful to her when she gets requests for >>indexers. >> >>sandi >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Jan C. Wright >>To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L >>Date: Monday, March 29, 1999 10:20 AM >>Subject: Word indexers >> >> >>>Hi all, >>> >>>I would like to compile a list of freelance indexers who can work in Word. >>>If you are have Word indexing experience, and would like to be on my list, >>>please send an email message to wordindex@wrightinformation.com. Please >>>only send email if you _already_ have Word indexing experience, not if you >>>are looking to learn it, or are trying to learn it. >>> >>>Thanks, >>> >>>Jan Wright >>> >>>+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= >>>Wright Information Indexing Services >>>http://www.wrightinformation.com >>>Jancw@wrightinformation.com >>>+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= >>> >> > >+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= >Wright Information Indexing Services >http://www.wrightinformation.com >Jancw@wrightinformation.com >+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:24:40 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Robin Hilp Subject: Re: Real Computer Virus Effect: When you open an infected Word attachment while reading email in Outlook, this virus resends itself as a Word attachment to the top 50 addresses in your Outlook address book. From "a special Symantec Norton AntiVirus SupportNow! News Bulletin" March 27, 1999: NEW MAILISSA MACRO VIRUS W97M.Mailissa is a common macro virus with a unique payload. Similar to W97M.Pri, the virus turns off security protection upon opening an infected document in Microsoft Word 2000. This disables the MS Word 2000 macro prompt the next time the document is opened. It infects MS Word 97 documents by adding a new VBA5 (macro) module named Melissa. Although there is nothing unique in the way this virus infects a computer, it has a payload that utilizes Microsoft Outlook to send an attachment of the infected Word 97 document being opened. For more information about this virus, please refer to the Norton AntiVirus Knowledge Base and search for document number 1999032716530606. This document contains a complete description about how the macro virus spreads and what it does. === RolyBear ICQ 1863181 (Robin Hilp) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:34:16 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Paul Kish Subject: Re: Marketing Indexes to Freelance Packagers (was Textbook indexing ) In-Reply-To: <199903291711.JAA09840@dns1.mcn.org> At 07:35 AM 3/29/99 -0800, you wrote: He is not listed in the yellow or white pages (she is), nor is his company, so I > would never have been able to market to him. I've also heard of three or four > other local freelance packager/editors in the area and I have the same problem > actually finding them. > >Any ideas on how to reach these folks? Take a tip from someone who's been there before you: If your new client has no listing in either the yellow or white pages, there's a great chance there's no listing in the creditworthiness department, either. Approach these folks the same way you'd deal with an author, NOT like your corporate client. In some ways, they're even more slippery, since your editor can often bring pressure against your author client, but when dealing with these so-called independents, you're totally on your own. Good luck! Paul Kish Kish Indexing Services ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 14:40:56 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Freelance Packagers and thanks >I was accidentally found by a freelance packager/editor because he is a >quilting >Any ideas on how to reach these folks? > I just did a search on "book packagers" in infoseek and came up with 170 hits, many of which look promising. You could probably do a more refined search and get a better number of appropriate hits. I think Writer's Market might also have a list of packagers (I know there's a big section of book publishers) but I'm not sure and I'm too lazy to dig out my old issue out a box somewhere in the attic and check. I work for several packagers and NONE of them pays on time (ref. my recent rant on late payments). If you decide to go that route, get contracts in writing and make them agree to finance charges after 30 days. If they won't, don't work for them. Maybe they aren't all like my clients, but I am very wary now. Packagers are very often (but not always) sole business proprieters who hire all freelancers to do the copyediting, proofreading, layout, etc., and they don't pay their freelancers until they get paid for the project, which is often not until publication or after, so that is probably the reason some of them take so long to pay. Thanks to everyone for the info on sending money to Canada. I got some great suggestions as I knew I would. I'm all set and the money is on its way. Thanks again!!! Rachel Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric racric ICQ 31476947 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 14:42:58 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: Marketing Indexes to Freelance Packagers (was Textbook indexing ) I also say beware, since while I have happily worked for a few packagers, I have also been approached by several others who keep making promises and try to nail me down to doing their project without a definite date in mind. Or they never respond quickly to my queries regarding time schedules and so on. To which after a while I answer a huge, resounding sorry, you'll have to find someone else. I have also been approached by others who expect 5,000 pages in Spanish to be indexed in one month and other impossible demands. (NO, I did not take that 5,000-page project!)=20 A big caveat indexer is in order, IMHO. Cynthia Bertelsen At 11:34 AM 3/29/99 -0800, Paul Kish wrote: >At 07:35 AM 3/29/99 -0800, you wrote: >> >>Any ideas on how to reach these folks? > > >Take a tip from someone who's been there before you: > >If your new client has no listing in either the yellow or white pages, >there's a great chance there's no listing in the creditworthiness >department, either. > >Approach these folks the same way you'd deal with an author, NOT like your >corporate client. In some ways, they're even more slippery, since your >editor can often bring pressure against your author client, but when >dealing with these so-called independents, you're totally on your own. > >Good luck! > >Paul Kish >Kish Indexing Services > > ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen Bertelsen Indexing and Editorial Services cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.usit.com/cbertel/ "When we no longer have good cooking in the world, we will have no literature, nor high and sharp intelligence, nor friendly gatherings, no social harmony."=20 --Car=EAme ****************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 20:45:13 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Leonard Will Subject: Re: Thesaurus vs. lexicon In-Reply-To: <922717303.1114881.0@listserv.cuny.edu> In article <922717303.1114881.0@listserv.cuny.edu>, on Mon, 29 Mar 1999 at 09:20:05, Field, Susan (S.) writes >I am still trying to understand the difference between thesauri and >lexicons. To my mind, a lexicon needs to have definitions - it is a kind of dictionary or glossary, though it may also serve as an authority list of preferred indexing terms. The main characteristic of an information retrieval thesaurus is that it specifies relationships between terms, generally of the types BT/NT, USE/UF, RT/RT. It can also have definitions (scope notes), but these are not always present. > In my mind, thesauri terms only have one *parent* term. This is not an inherent characteristic of a thesaurus. Some thesauri, such as the AAT (Art and Architecture Thesaurus) have this limitation, but that is a locally adopted rule which I think cripples them unnecessarily. If a term has more than one broader term that can be validly and usefully applied, then I believe that both should be shown. The main standards for thesaurus construction (ISO2788-1986; BS5723:1987; ANSI/NISO Z39.19-1993) all allow multiple broader terms (polyhierarchy). > Or is the difference between >lexicons and thesauri in the metadata and not in the structure? I'm not sure what you mean by "metadata" in this context - it is a rather overworked word nowadays. :-) >As corporate archivists, it is important for us to use a controlled >vocabulary to index our collection--the volume of our collection requires >it. I'm glad to know that you haven't succumbed to the view that using a computer to do a brute-force "search everything" approach would give adequate retrieval. The trouble is that there are not very many computer systems that provide all the functions you need to use a thesaurus properly, such as navigating hierarchical displays when indexing and searching, and picking terms or subtrees to put into search statements. Leonard Will -- Willpower Information (Partners: Dr Leonard D Will, Sheena E Will) Information Management Consultants Tel: +44 181 372 0092 27 Calshot Way, Enfield, Middlesex, EN2 7BQ, UK Fax: +44 181 372 0094 L.Will@Willpower.demon.co.uk Sheena.Will@Willpower.demon.co.uk --------------- --------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:21:47 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Freelance Packagers and thanks At 02:40 PM 3/29/1999 -0500, Rachel Rice wrote: >I work for several packagers and NONE of them pays on time (ref. my recent >rant on late payments). If you decide to go that route, get contracts in >writing and make them agree to finance charges after 30 days. If they >won't, don't work for them. Maybe they aren't all like my clients, but I am >very wary now. I've had better luck, but then many of my packager clients have been in business almost as long as I have! I agree with Rachel's overall advice, which is to be very wary of ANY new client that you do not know to be reliable and large enough to have a decent cash flow. OTOH, I understand from people who contract with the U.S. government that the feds have no problem holding up payment for months and will not pay interest nor accept contracts which stipulate late fees. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 16:13:49 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "S. Greenhouse" Subject: Re: Thesaurus vs. lexicon Webster's defines lexicon as an alphabetical arrangement of the words in a language and their definitions., and defines thesaurus as a book of words or of information about a particular field or set of concepts; especially a book of words and their synonyms. For me, a thesaurus is a controlled vocabulary, an authority list that gives me the terms I am allowed to enter into a database to describe an article. The thesaurus is narrow, specific and does not contain all the terminology available to workers in a specialty . It is one attempt to standardize language used within a specialty and apply that language in a standard way to describe something. It would be a subset of a lexicon. A lexicon to me is *all* available jargon terms in a specific field, even the ones authors invent every day seeking their claims to immortality. One good thesaurus which has entry/index terms with more than one parent term is the MeSH (Medical Subject Headings) tool National Library of Medicine indexers use. The best (in my humble opinion) Internet interaction engine associated with MeSH is at http://www.nlm.nih.gov/mesh/99MBrowser.html The only limitation of searching MeSH here is that you should already know the term you are looking for, kind of. If you enter "clinical protocols" (without quotes) in the text box and hit enter, you will be taken to a screen that shows the scope notes, synonyms (use for) terms, and tree numbers (hierarchical relations). Scanning down this web page, you can look at the actual tree structure and see the broader term/narrower term structure itself. The E trees are analytical, diagnostic and therapeutic techniques and equipment; the E5 tree deals specifically with analytical techniques. The G trees are biological science, and the G3 tree is specifically environment and public health. The H tree is physical science. The N trees are health care and N5 is specifically health care quality, access, and evaluation. Thus clinical protocols has parent terms of epidemiologic methods, research, and health care evaluation mechanisms. Having the term "clinical protocols" in four different trees doesn't link those trees together (as the term matrix implies to me) but shows the different usages/connotations associated with a broadly defined concept, and applies that concept specifically in four areas of study. Shelley Greenhouse database indexer playing hooky greenhou@erols.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 16:24:37 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Freelance Packagers All, Book packages are some of my best clients, right now. OTOH, in the past I have dealt with some who were "solo" free lancers, who had trouble coming up with timely payment. The book packager companies who are good clients now are larger, and run in a more business-like fashion. They have staffs and business addresses, and their business practices are better. Just be careful and follow your instincts. It is always a good idea to state your requirement for timely payment at the outset. To my mind, the trend is here to stay. More and more of the big publishers are going over to using packagers. As freelancers, we can't write them off, nor can we lump them all together into a class. There will be good ones and bad ones, as far as timely payment is concerned. As with any client, we need to be selective. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 16:34:27 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary Mortensen Subject: Re: Marketing Indexes to Freelance Packagers I'm glad several of you wrote about being careful of dealing with small companies and self-employed packagers. I have only had experience with medium-sized companies (large enough to have several people hiring freelancers, a manager or two, and an accountant or accounting dept.) and they have always paid me on time. These are the type that are easier to find for marketing purposes, as well, as they might be listed in Writer's Market or LMP. But it always pays to be cautious. Mary -- * Mary Mortensen * marymort@aol.com * Lawrence, Kansas, USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 16:48:41 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Marketing Indexes to Freelance Packagers I've gotten most of my packager contacts from the clients who hire them (in one case I called to see what had happened to the publisher--they'd started working exclusively with packagers. I said, "Please give my name to the packagers!!!" and the editor gave me a bunch of phone numbers.). Other than that...I don't know! Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 20:21:16 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" Subject: Email folders Hello everyone, I'm still lurking, trying to keep up with both my indexing and Index-L. I have two questions: 1) Is there a way to print the entire contents of a folder instead of having to print individual files one by one? 2) Is there a way to delete an entire thread, say "Y-2K,"or "cats walking on the keyboard" (I have dogs that may one day eat page proofs) without having to delete individual files? I'd love to be able to delete all the threads I don't want and print all the ones I do in just a few operations instead of 100. I can't believe there isn't a way to do this, but haven't been able to figure it out on my own. Paula Durbin-Westby dwindex@louisa.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:09:10 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lyn Grimes Subject: Re: Looking for professional indexers Hello, Amber! I am _VERY, VERY ENTICED _ by your project! Please tell me more! Let me give you a brief synopsis of my qualifications: --I am located in Everett, WA (but I routinely commute to Redmond and Seattle) --Ability to work on or off site (prefer offsite--with some onsite consultations) --BA in English/Writing --MLS (includes course work in indexing, abstracting, cataloging, database management) --15+ years as a professional cataloger --10+ years indexing/abstracting printed books and journal issues for a scholarly publisher --10+ years as a journal issue/monograph and journal editor-in-chief for a scholarly publisher --2+ years indexing and editing online and hard copy documentation for Microsoft (Windows 2000, NetShow, Exchange, SQL Server) --Familiarity with: Word, MSDN, WinHelp, HTML (various programs: HHW, HotMetalPro, HotDog, others--well, like library system, the HTML programs are, in the end, more similar than different!), Excel/Crucible, Cindex I will admit to never using Frame or RoboHelp specifically for any project that I have worked on. I have dabbled some with RoboHelp for writing and editing purposes. In light of the "Melissa Virus" hoopla--I will send you my full resume as an attached Word97 doc upon request (I use Netscape mail for my home account--so all should be well!). Lynne Elizabeth Martin Grimes (Lyn, for short!) lyng@kendra.com 425-347-8381 PO Box 3698, Everett, WA 98203. Amber Swope wrote: > in Seattle and Milwaukee! > > Hi there, > > Our UE team has decided that we need to upgrade our indexes and we want to > get some outside input. We're looking for a professional indexer who: > > - Knows how to index both online and hard copy material > - Knows how to use Frame and RoboHelp > - Knows WinHelp and HTML > - Is familiar with MSDN > > If you fit this criteria and are located in Seattle, WA or Milwaukee, WI, > please contact Amber Swope (aswope@rational.com). > > Thanks, > Amber Swope > > Sr. Project Manager > Rose Business Unit User Education > Rational Software > aswope@rational.com > 425-556-9564 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:37:07 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: Freelance Packagers In-Reply-To: <199903292126.NAA02297@dns1.mcn.org> Janet wrote: >Just be careful and follow your instincts. It is always a good idea to state >your requirement for timely payment at the outset. To my mind, the trend is >here to stay. More and more of the big publishers are going over to using >packagers. As freelancers, we can't write them off, nor can we lump them all >together into a class. There will be good ones and bad ones, as far as timely >payment is concerned. As with any client, we need to be selective. One of my clients is a textbook publisher that I've worked directly with for a number of years. Occasionally I work for a packager that they've subcontracted to. The publisher still sends me my purchase order, and the publisher still pays me (usually within 4 weeks). So, I think there are many ways that these things are done. Best, Victoria ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 21:03:57 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Email folders Paula wrote: << 1) Is there a way to print the entire contents of a folder instead of having to print individual files one by one? 2) Is there a way to delete an entire thread, say "Y-2K,"or "cats walking on the keyboard" (I have dogs that may one day eat page proofs) without having to delete individual files? I'd love to be able to delete all the threads I don't want and print all the ones I do in just a few operations instead of 100. I can't believe there isn't a way to do this, but haven't been able to figure it out on my own. >> Hi Paula-- This depends entirely upon your server (I think) and the software you use to process your email. In AOL, we don't have a lot of sorting capacity (that I know about) but I know other people do. Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 21:07:47 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Freelance Packagers and thanks Rachel wrote: << Packagers are very often (but not always) sole business proprieters who hire all freelancers to do the copyediting, proofreading, layout, etc., and they don't pay their freelancers until they get paid for the project, which is often not until publication or after, so that is probably the reason some of them take so long to pay. >> I mostly haven't had this trouble with packagers. With one of my ongoing packager clients, the first time I worked for them they didn't pay until the publisher paid them (i.e. very late) in spite of having agreed to my 30-day terms. I told them quite strongly that that was unacceptable and that I expect to be paid within 30 days regardless of their agreement with the publisher. They have hired me, and paid within 30 days, ever since. I've run into quite a few packagers that are brand new--in fact, some of them are ex-editors for whom I've worked--and are still figuring out how things should work. I take the opportunity to instruct them. :-) Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 21:12:38 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Funny Twist on Author Index Sonsie wrote: << My editor apologized profusely and said that since the bibliography would not be available right away, that SHE would handle collecting all first initials/names and entering them into the index file. In other words, all I have to do is type Smith, 251, and move on! How she will untangle this, I don't know...probably the same way I would have, with an agonizing trip to the biblio for virtually every reference. I am not getting paid extra to do the "author index," in this case, but the original rate was quite handsome to begin with...and I am also NOT doing the dreary checking of first names. My editor is doing the dirty work, essentially, and I am getting paid well to avoid 75% of the mess. >> Sounds like a deal! On the other hand, does your editor know that when she gets the index back, for every name that has more than one page reference she is going to be looking on the page of the text to find the whole reference, then looking it up in the bibliography to figure out what the initial is?? For every page reference? Having made the mistake of doing it this way once, on my very first index, I wouldn't recommend it. It's not going to be a problem for you, but on the other hand she could end up very unhappy and late, even if it's her own fault...I had an entry for Smith with about 40 page references, and ^every single one of them^ was a different person. Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 05:23:13 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nancy Mulvany Subject: Obtaining The INDEXER Many former members of ASI have asked me how they can obtain The INDEXER. Here are some options. US dollar currency equivalents are based on exchange rates published in the New York Times on March 30, 1999. They are subject to change. 1. Subscription (2 issues per year): 40 pounds per year (~$64.80 US dollars) Available from : Society of Indexers Globe Centre Penistone Road Sheffield, S. Yorks S6 3AE England 2. Membership in Society of Indexers Outside Europe: Full-year, 52 pounds (~$84.24 US dollars) Includes SI newsletter, 2 issues of The INDEXER, and other member benefits Obtain membership information and form from http://www.socind.demon.co.uk/memsub.htm 3. Membership in Indexing and Abstracting Society of Canada Full-year: 45 Canadian dollars (~$29.80 US dollars) Includes IASC newsletter, 2 issues of The INDEXER, and other member benefits Send to: (include your Name, Address, Phone, Fax, Email address, sign and date) The Membership Secretary Indexing and Abstracting Society of Canada P.O. Box 744, Station F Toronto, ON M4Y 2N6 Canada Thanks to an International Agreement between ASI, AusSI, IASC, and SI, members of the various societies are entitled to pay member prices at events sponsored by all other affiliated societies. ** Special Note to Americans ** If you decide to subscribe to The INDEXER or join SI or IASC do not send an American check in US dollars. Do these folks a favor and obtain a foreign draft or international money order in the appropriate currency. Nancy Mulvany Associate Editor, The INDEXER Bayside Indexing Service Kensington, CA 94707-1401 (510) 524-4195 (510) 527-4681, fax Email: nmulvany@bayside-indexing.com Reference Books for Indexers =====> http://www.bayside-indexing.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 08:37:50 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: Obtaining The INDEXER This is not that easy to do where I live! And I'll bet other Americans not living in large metropolitan areas have the same problem. In the past, and with no problems from SI, I have bought the SI's indexing course materials (for reference use) by sending dollar checks. Cynthia Bertelsen At 05:23 AM 3/30/99 -0800, Nancy Mulvany wrote: >** Special Note to Americans ** >If you decide to subscribe to The INDEXER or join SI or IASC do not send an >American check in US dollars. Do these folks a favor and obtain a foreign >draft or international money order in the appropriate currency. > > >Nancy Mulvany >Associate Editor, The INDEXER ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen Bertelsen Indexing and Editorial Services cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.usit.com/cbertel/ "When we no longer have good cooking in the world, we will have no literature, nor high and sharp intelligence, nor friendly gatherings, no social harmony."=20 --Car=EAme ****************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 08:56:09 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "M. Jessie Barczak" Subject: Re: Looking for professional indexers This is for those members of this list who LAMBASTED me for doing the same thing. I have no problem with this posting. I simply deleted it from my email program. This is an honest mistake. No big deal. I have NO INTENTION of LAMBASTING this submitter. I have no intention of CALLING INTO QUESTION HER CREDIBILITY, as some did when I did the same thing. You who are guilty ought to be ashamed of yourselves. M. J. Barczak Washington, D.C. >Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:09:10 -0800 >Reply-To: "Indexer's Discussion Group" >Sender: "Indexer's Discussion Group" >From: Lyn Grimes >Subject: Re: Looking for professional indexers >X-To: Indexer's Discussion Group >To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > >Hello, Amber! >I am _VERY, VERY ENTICED _ by your project! Please tell me more! > >Let me give you a brief synopsis of my qualifications: >--I am located in Everett, WA (but I routinely commute to Redmond and >Seattle) >--Ability to work on or off site (prefer offsite--with some onsite >consultations) >--BA in English/Writing >--MLS (includes course work in indexing, abstracting, cataloging, database >management) >--15+ years as a professional cataloger >--10+ years indexing/abstracting printed books and journal issues for a >scholarly publisher >--10+ years as a journal issue/monograph and journal editor-in-chief for a >scholarly publisher >--2+ years indexing and editing online and hard copy documentation for >Microsoft (Windows 2000, NetShow, Exchange, SQL Server) >--Familiarity with: Word, MSDN, WinHelp, HTML (various programs: HHW, >HotMetalPro, HotDog, others--well, like library system, the HTML programs are, >in the end, more similar than different!), Excel/Crucible, Cindex > >I will admit to never using Frame or RoboHelp specifically for any project >that I have worked on. I have dabbled some with RoboHelp for writing and >editing purposes. > >In light of the "Melissa Virus" hoopla--I will send you my full resume as an >attached Word97 doc upon request (I use Netscape mail for my home account--so >all should be well!). > >Lynne Elizabeth Martin Grimes (Lyn, for short!) >lyng@kendra.com >425-347-8381 >PO Box 3698, Everett, WA 98203. > > >Amber Swope wrote: > >> in Seattle and Milwaukee! >> >> Hi there, >> >> Our UE team has decided that we need to upgrade our indexes and we want to >> get some outside input. We're looking for a professional indexer who: >> >> - Knows how to index both online and hard copy material >> - Knows how to use Frame and RoboHelp >> - Knows WinHelp and HTML >> - Is familiar with MSDN >> >> If you fit this criteria and are located in Seattle, WA or Milwaukee, WI, >> please contact Amber Swope (aswope@rational.com). >> >> Thanks, >> Amber Swope >> >> Sr. Project Manager >> Rose Business Unit User Education >> Rational Software >> aswope@rational.com >> 425-556-9564 > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 09:07:50 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Field, Susan (S.)" Subject: Re: Managing your (freelance) money Has anyone chosen to incorporate their business, rather than simply file a Schedule C with their 1040(in the United States)? If yes, why? I am grappling with this decision myself. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 06:25:59 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: Managing your (freelance) money In-Reply-To: <199903300908.rg1mnb.1p3.37kbi3u@mx10.mindspring.com> I incorporated after a long discussion with my accountant (several years) and I am now very glad I did. I save money on taxes, he handled most of the paperwork for a minimal fee, and I find when dealing with corporations like Microsoft, it helps to be incorporated. These large software companies have gotten nervous about dealing with one person businesses as contractors, because the irs came after them a few years ago, declared certain contractors to be common law employees, and charged Microsoft back taxes on them. All the other companies started getting terrified it would happen to them next. In order for them to avoid this happening again, they prefer you either work through an agency or be very clearly no way absolutely not a common law employee, which the incorporation provides. I have had several clients, when asking about my status when starting a contract, actually say "Whew, that's great. That makes it easy for us." So it's been worth it for me to do it this way....But you MUST have an accountant that you trust and who will help you, and will not charge you exorbitant fees. Jan Wright At 09:07 AM 3/30/99 -0500, you wrote: >Has anyone chosen to incorporate their business, rather than simply file a >Schedule C with their 1040(in the United States)? If yes, why? I am >grappling with this decision myself. > +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Wright Information Indexing Services http://www.wrightinformation.com Jancw@wrightinformation.com +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:17:00 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Managing your (freelance) money In-Reply-To: <199903300908.rg1mnj.1s4.37kbi3u@mx10.mindspring.com> At 09:07 AM 3/30/99 -0500, you wrote: >Has anyone chosen to incorporate their business, rather than simply file a >Schedule C with their 1040(in the United States)? If yes, why? I am >grappling with this decision myself. > I am incorporated as an S corp. Can't say as I really understand the intricacies of incorporation vs. sole proprietorship, but my accountant recommended it. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:19:54 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Field, Susan (S.)" Subject: Re: Managing your (freelance) money Is the issue of incorporation also an issue of not paying Social Security taxes, and instead using the money to invest in your own investment accounts, where you would most likely get higher rates of return on your investments? -----Original Message----- From: Jan C. Wright [mailto:jancw@WRIGHTINFORMATION.COM] Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 9:26 AM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: Re: Managing your (freelance) money I incorporated after a long discussion with my accountant (several years) and I am now very glad I did. I save money on taxes, he handled most of the paperwork for a minimal fee, and I find when dealing with corporations like Microsoft, it helps to be incorporated. These large software companies have gotten nervous about dealing with one person businesses as contractors, because the irs came after them a few years ago, declared certain contractors to be common law employees, and charged Microsoft back taxes on them. All the other companies started getting terrified it would happen to them next. In order for them to avoid this happening again, they prefer you either work through an agency or be very clearly no way absolutely not a common law employee, which the incorporation provides. I have had several clients, when asking about my status when starting a contract, actually say "Whew, that's great. That makes it easy for us." So it's been worth it for me to do it this way....But you MUST have an accountant that you trust and who will help you, and will not charge you exorbitant fees. Jan Wright At 09:07 AM 3/30/99 -0500, you wrote: >Has anyone chosen to incorporate their business, rather than simply file a >Schedule C with their 1040(in the United States)? If yes, why? I am >grappling with this decision myself. > +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Wright Information Indexing Services http://www.wrightinformation.com Jancw@wrightinformation.com +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:24:53 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: David Leonard Subject: Re: Looking for professional indexers In-Reply-To: <199903300855.SM00190@listserv.cuny.edu> Dear MJ, Your original "offending" post came in the midst of several days of a number of posts urging list members to reply directly to the companies involved and not to the list itself. That's probably why people seemed to jump on you. Regards David At 08:56 AM 3/30/1999 -0500, you wrote: >This is for those members of this list who LAMBASTED me for doing the same >thing. I have no problem with this posting. I simply deleted it from my >email program. This is an honest mistake. No big deal. I have NO >INTENTION of LAMBASTING this submitter. I have no intention of CALLING >INTO QUESTION HER CREDIBILITY, as some did when I did the same thing. > >You who are guilty ought to be ashamed of yourselves. > >M. J. Barczak >Washington, D.C. > >>Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:09:10 -0800 >>Reply-To: "Indexer's Discussion Group" >>Sender: "Indexer's Discussion Group" >>From: Lyn Grimes >>Subject: Re: Looking for professional indexers >>X-To: Indexer's Discussion Group >>To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > >> >>Hello, Amber! >>I am _VERY, VERY ENTICED _ by your project! Please tell me more! >> >>Let me give you a brief synopsis of my qualifications: >>--I am located in Everett, WA (but I routinely commute to Redmond and >>Seattle) >>--Ability to work on or off site (prefer offsite--with some onsite >>consultations) >>--BA in English/Writing >>--MLS (includes course work in indexing, abstracting, cataloging, database >>management) >>--15+ years as a professional cataloger >>--10+ years indexing/abstracting printed books and journal issues for a >>scholarly publisher >>--10+ years as a journal issue/monograph and journal editor-in-chief for a >>scholarly publisher >>--2+ years indexing and editing online and hard copy documentation for >>Microsoft (Windows 2000, NetShow, Exchange, SQL Server) >>--Familiarity with: Word, MSDN, WinHelp, HTML (various programs: HHW, >>HotMetalPro, HotDog, others--well, like library system, the HTML programs >are, >>in the end, more similar than different!), Excel/Crucible, Cindex >> >>I will admit to never using Frame or RoboHelp specifically for any project >>that I have worked on. I have dabbled some with RoboHelp for writing and >>editing purposes. >> >>In light of the "Melissa Virus" hoopla--I will send you my full resume as an >>attached Word97 doc upon request (I use Netscape mail for my home account--so >>all should be well!). >> >>Lynne Elizabeth Martin Grimes (Lyn, for short!) >>lyng@kendra.com >>425-347-8381 >>PO Box 3698, Everett, WA 98203. >> >> >>Amber Swope wrote: >> >>> in Seattle and Milwaukee! >>> >>> Hi there, >>> >>> Our UE team has decided that we need to upgrade our indexes and we want to >>> get some outside input. We're looking for a professional indexer who: >>> >>> - Knows how to index both online and hard copy material >>> - Knows how to use Frame and RoboHelp >>> - Knows WinHelp and HTML >>> - Is familiar with MSDN >>> >>> If you fit this criteria and are located in Seattle, WA or Milwaukee, WI, >>> please contact Amber Swope (aswope@rational.com). >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Amber Swope >>> >>> Sr. Project Manager >>> Rose Business Unit User Education >>> Rational Software >>> aswope@rational.com >>> 425-556-9564 >> >> > > ******************************************************* David Leonard, M.Ag. 98 Portland Ave. Dover, NH 03820 Tel. (603)742-0267, Fax (603)742-0531 (Information research and back-of-the-book indexing in ag sciences, nutrition, and health) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:27:47 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "M. Jessie Barczak" Subject: Re: Managing your (freelance) money At 10:19 AM 3/30/99 -0500, you wrote: >Is the issue of incorporation also an issue of not paying Social Security >taxes, and instead using the money to invest in your own investment >accounts, where you would most likely get higher rates of return on your >investments? > Good question! Can anyone help? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 07:22:50 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: Managing your (freelance) money In-Reply-To: <199903301020.rg1quk.s3m.37kbi16@mx8.mindspring.com> That is part of it - you must choose whether or not to pay yourself a salary, and if you do, you pay social security on that, and your paperwork increases like crazy. But your company can also give yourself dividends, which are taxed differently. The issue of retirement is a big one, and you have to figure out what works best with your accountant. At 10:19 AM 3/30/99 -0500, you wrote: >Is the issue of incorporation also an issue of not paying Social Security >taxes, and instead using the money to invest in your own investment >accounts, where you would most likely get higher rates of return on your >investments? > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jan C. Wright [mailto:jancw@WRIGHTINFORMATION.COM] >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 9:26 AM >To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L >Subject: Re: Managing your (freelance) money > > >I incorporated after a long discussion with my accountant (several years) >and I am now very glad I did. I save money on taxes, he handled most of the >paperwork for a minimal fee, and I find when dealing with corporations like >Microsoft, it helps to be incorporated. These large software companies have >gotten nervous about dealing with one person businesses as contractors, >because the irs came after them a few years ago, declared certain >contractors to be common law employees, and charged Microsoft back taxes on >them. All the other companies started getting terrified it would happen to >them next. > >In order for them to avoid this happening again, they prefer you either >work through an agency or be very clearly no way absolutely not a common >law employee, which the incorporation provides. I have had several clients, >when asking about my status when starting a contract, actually say "Whew, >that's great. That makes it easy for us." > >So it's been worth it for me to do it this way....But you MUST have an >accountant that you trust and who will help you, and will not charge you >exorbitant fees. > >Jan Wright > >At 09:07 AM 3/30/99 -0500, you wrote: >>Has anyone chosen to incorporate their business, rather than simply file a >>Schedule C with their 1040(in the United States)? If yes, why? I am >>grappling with this decision myself. >> > >+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= >Wright Information Indexing Services >http://www.wrightinformation.com >Jancw@wrightinformation.com >+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= > +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Wright Information Indexing Services http://www.wrightinformation.com Jancw@wrightinformation.com +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:53:41 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kate Binder Subject: Re: Marketing Indexes to Freelance Packagers (was Textbook indexing ) On 3/29/99 2:34 PM, Paul Kish wrote: >If your new client has no listing in either the yellow or white pages, >there's a great chance there's no listing in the creditworthiness >department, either. I'm not exactly a packager, but I offer a variety of editorial and production services, and I don't know any small businesses like mine that advertise in the yellow pages. I'm not listed in the yellow pages -- why would I be? I don't get work from people reading the phone book in my town, I get it from big publishing companies who know me by word of mouth. I'm not in the white pages under my business name, either, because I don't feel like paying higher rates for "business" services from the phone company. If you're concerned about a client's creditworthiness, get references. How many indexing businesses are listed in the yellow pages? Does that say something about indexers' creditworthiness? I don't think so. Kate PS: I also pay on time. So there! ;-) ------------------------------------- Kate Binder Prospect Hill Publishing Services kate@prospecthillpub.com / www.prospecthillpub.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 09:26:02 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Funny Twist on Author Index At 09:12 PM 3/29/1999 EST, DStaub11@AOL.COM wrote: >Sounds like a deal! On the other hand, does your editor know that when she >gets the index back, for every name that has more than one page reference she >is going to be looking on the page of the text to find the whole reference, >then looking it up in the bibliography to figure out what the initial is?? For >every page reference? Having made the mistake of doing it this way once, on my >very first index, I wouldn't recommend it. It's not going to be a problem for >you, but on the other hand she could end up very unhappy and late, even if >it's her own fault...I had an entry for Smith with about 40 page references, >and ^every single one of them^ was a different person. I've made her aware of the problem. Luckily, there are not many references, and of those, not too many that are common names belonging to several authors. I also noted the different spellings I've run across (a problem with using uncorrected proofs for indexing) that will have to be fixed. So far, so good! If this were the typical textbook with literally hundreds of refs in parens, she would be tearing her hair out (and learning, at the same time, why we charge a lot more to do an author index). =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 09:26:03 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Obtaining The INDEXER At 08:37 AM 3/30/1999 -0500, Cynthia Bertelsen wrote: >This is not that easy to do where I live! And I'll bet other Americans not >living in large metropolitan areas have the same problem. In the past, and >with no problems from SI, I have bought the SI's indexing course materials >(for reference use) by sending dollar checks. I thought you could buy international money orders at any post office. But I do this so rarely, I can't be certain. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 09:26:05 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Marketing Indexes to Freelance Packagers (was Textbook indexing ) At 10:53 AM 3/30/1999 -0500, Kate Binder wrote: >I'm not exactly a packager, but I offer a variety of editorial and >production services, and I don't know any small businesses like mine that >advertise in the yellow pages. I do...but simply with the usual line ad, not a display. I have a business telephone line, and that listing comes free as part of the package. I'm listed under advertising agencies (because that's the other part of my business) and under editorial services. >I'm not listed in the yellow pages -- why would I be? I don't get work >from people reading the phone book in my town, I get it from big >publishing companies who know me by word of mouth. I'm not in the white >pages under my business name, either, because I don't feel like paying >higher rates for "business" services from the phone company. I work for two small local publishers, but ordinarily a year will go by during which I get NO calls from my yellow pages listing. That's not really why I keep it...it goes more toward "credibility," or whatever you want to call the aura of legitimacy that a business should have, IMO. (The difference in rates between residential service and business service is fairly low, especially given my volume of calls. I use email for probably 75% of my communications these days.) >If you're concerned about a client's creditworthiness, get references. >How many indexing businesses are listed in the yellow pages? Does that >say something about indexers' creditworthiness? I don't think so. Of course, we should check credit references. But having a business phone is somewhat like having a business checking account, filing a DBA, and other not-necessary-but-affirmatively businesslike things we do. It helps to establish our "reality" as a business operation, not somebody working at the kitchen table who may or may not be there six months from now. Just IMO, of course... =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 13:24:00 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Macrex Support Office Subject: Re: Obtaining The INDEXER It is very likely that they simply decided that it was less trouble/expense to deal with the check but there is normally a conversion fee (it costs me $25 in bank fees to handle a Canadian check not drawn in US funds). I don't know if they can take credit cards but that would solve the conversion problem -- the credit card companies are setup to handle the matter at current market rates. Sending US fund checks drawn on US banks is likely to cause problems when it comes time to deposit your check. Gale Rhoades Macrex Support Office, North America voice: 650-756-0821 fax: 650-757-1567 Wise Bytes P. O. Box 3051 Daly City, CA 94015 macrex@aol.com www.macrex.cix.co.uk At 08:37 AM 3/30/1999 -0500, Cynthia Bertelsen wrote: >This is not that easy to do where I live! And I'll bet other Americans not >living in large metropolitan areas have the same problem. In the past, and >with no problems from SI, I have bought the SI's indexing course materials >(for reference use) by sending dollar checks. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 13:29:50 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Sherman Grayson Subject: Author indexes Dear All, Like everyone else posting to the list regarding the subject of cited author indexes, I find the requirement terribly time consuming with little or no "job satisfaction" attached to it when it is completed. Because it is always such a gruesome task, I have found one way to streamline the task that I thought I would pass on in the hopes it would help some poor soul who has to spend hours turning to the reference section for the required first initials. I also will mention that I work in Macrex but I am certain the shortcut would work in the other indexing programs as well. Some publishers want separate and others want the author index combined with the subject index - I work them both the same way. I create two separate indexes, one of subject matter, one for the cited authors. When completed, if the publisher requires a combined index, I simply read the author backup file into the subject index and it sorts it automatically. The short cut for the author index is as follows: 1) Before indexing each chapter, I underline the cited authors in red. 2) I index the chapter in the normal way for the subject index which allows me to catch any of the cited authors I may have missed. (This is especially important in heavily cited subject areas such as psychology where the eye tends to miss some when doing the initial scan/underline task.) 3) I open an author index, turn to the references section for that chapter, and enter ALL author names, WITHOUT page numbers 4) After the subject index for that chapter is complete, I do the mind numbing task of the author index. Using the author index without the page numbers allows me to type in the last name, it appears at the top of the screen, I type in the line number and enter the page number ( or press esc, press end and type page number). This of course DOES NOT HELP with the irritatingly common names such as Jones, Smith, etc. when you have to turn to the references page to find the correct one. If you have a book with all the references at the end and not after each chapter, it is a much more arduous task, but I still feel that it saves quite a bit of time because you don't have to locate the first initial FOR EACH name EVERY time! Hope this helps someone and will also stimulate anyone else who has a time-saving tip to share regarding ANNOYING AUTHOR INDEX ENTRIES! Regards, Julie Grayson ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:32:11 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Field Subject: Indexes for User Guides Greetings all. I'm baffled a little, and I was hoping anyone with experience indexing user guides could help. Here's the deal: I know that using verbs (partically verbs alone) as main entries is generally not a good idea. But as I write and edit user guides, I find that verbs in gerund form could really help the user. For example:
deleting records in your database files from the server. These entries would be double-posted by making main entries out of the nouns in subentries, of course. My thinking is that users use such user guides to do tasks, and any good user guide that is task-oriented contains lots of procedures with heading that begin with a gerund form of the task. Has anyone had experience with this, and if so, what are your thoughts on this? I've also checked out Larry S. Bonura's _The Art of Indexing_, which is geared toward technical documents, but I didn't see anything useful there. Feel free to respond to me directly at karenf@tritech.com . Thanks! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:55:20 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Paul Kish Subject: Re: Indexes for User Guides In-Reply-To: <199903301840.KAA29959@dns1.mcn.org> At 10:32 AM 3/30/99 -0800, you wrote: >Here's the deal: I know that using verbs (partically verbs alone) as main >entries is generally not a good idea. But as I write and edit user guides, I >find that verbs in gerund form could really help the user. I'd say, follow your instincts. Use whatever form of whatever verb, noun, or adjective you sincerely believe is appropriate. Where do I think the justification for these usages lies? In hundreds of books now available at your neighborhood bookstore! If you haven't spent a couple hours recently just reading indexes to current non-fiction, you've got a surprise coming. My argument, then, is that the modern reader expects to see verbs, as well as nouns, appearing as index entries. Does this make it right?? I don't know, but as Karen says, these indexes are for User Guides, not scholarly references. Ask yourself, who is the audience, the reader, truly? If you have a good editor, and you really think about your audience, then hopefully, you'll have a variety of indexing styles, instead of just slavishly following Chicago. For what it's worth, my humble two cents. Paul Kish Kish Indexing Services ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:03:58 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marsha Lofthouse Subject: Re: Indexes for User Guides This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE7AE0.10D2AB9C Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Karen (who asked about using verbs, specifically gerunds, in indexes for user's guides) I have indexed several computer user's guides and often use gerunds. I agree with you regarding the task-oriented approach. If I, as a user, wanted to know how to print my document, I would first look for the word "print" or "printing" and expect to see "document" as a subentry if the instructions for printing other things differ from that of documents. I feel the word "printing" is more descriptive of the task involved than the word "print". I use the same approach in my online help indexes. One thing to watch out for, however, is the tendency toward having a main entry, such as "selecting", then having 20 subs below it because there are so many things that the user or reader can select. I'm eager to hear what other people on this list think. Marsha Lofthouse TargetSmart, Inc. Denver, CO mailto:marsha_lofthouse@targetsmart.com Visit our Web site at http://www.targetsmart.com ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE7AE0.10D2AB9C Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: Indexes for User Guides

Karen (who asked about using verbs, specifically = gerunds, in indexes for user's guides)

I have indexed several computer user's guides and = often use gerunds. I agree with you regarding the task-oriented = approach. If I, as a user, wanted to know how to print my document, I = would first look for the word "print" or "printing" = and expect to see "document" as a subentry if the = instructions for printing other things differ from that of documents. I = feel the word "printing" is more descriptive of the task = involved than the word "print". I use the same approach in my = online help indexes.

One thing to watch out for, however, is the tendency = toward having a main entry, such as "selecting", then having = 20 subs below it because there are so many things that the user or = reader can select.

I'm eager to hear what other people on this list = think.

Marsha Lofthouse
TargetSmart, Inc.
Denver, CO
mailto:marsha_lofthouse@targetsmart.com
Visit our Web site at http://www.targetsmart.com

------_=_NextPart_001_01BE7AE0.10D2AB9C-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:14:30 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Paul Kish Subject: Re: Marketing Indexes to Freelance Packagers (was Textbook indexing ) In-Reply-To: <199903301554.HAA25261@dns1.mcn.org> At 10:53 AM 3/30/99 -0500, you wrote: >On 3/29/99 2:34 PM, Paul Kish wrote: > >>If your new client has no listing in either the yellow or white pages, >>there's a great chance there's no listing in the creditworthiness >>department, either. Kate Binder wrote in reply: >I'm not exactly a packager, but I offer a variety of editorial and >production services, and I don't know any small businesses like mine that >advertise in the yellow pages. ---------- >Kate Binder >Prospect Hill Publishing Services >kate@prospecthillpub.com / www.prospecthillpub.com Well, Kate, I'm sure you're a nice person, and pay your bills on time. But I've had enough time in the trenches now to say, with some feeling of certainty, that for an indexer to deal with a one-person or husband-wife production shop can very frustrating. As I've discovered, these folks usually have impossible cash-flow problems, and guaranteed the phone bill and the car payment get more attention than some poor indexer, who may not even live in the same state as the producer. Yes, it's true, most freelance indexers aren't in the phone book either, but then, the only people they owe money to, like the mortgage holder and the phone company, already know how to find them, and have some pretty big screws they can turn if the money stops flowing. Indexers sell their time, their knowledge, their experience. You are an independent producer. You buy other people's time, cut-rate, so you can re-sell it, and make enough off the top, hopefully, to support yourself. This is not an indictment, or even a judgement. It's just reality. No-one is calling you names. Just please, don't compare yourself, professionally, to an indexer. We may both work in publishing, but otherwise, like they say, it's apples and oranges. Paul Kish Kish Indexing Services ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 14:19:32 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kate Binder Subject: Re: Marketing Indexes to Freelance Packagers (was Textbook indexing ) On 3/30/99 12:26 PM, Sonsie Conroy wrote: >Of course, we should check credit references. But having a business phone is >somewhat like having a business checking account, filing a DBA, and other >not-necessary-but-affirmatively businesslike things we do. It helps to >establish our "reality" as a business operation, not somebody working at the >kitchen table who may or may not be there six months from now. Sonsie, I've certainly learned to respect your opinion over the months I've been subscribing to this list, and I agree with you that having a business phone listing and advertising in the yellow pages can increase a business's credibility. However, I do feel those things are optional, and I still feel strongly that not doing them does _not_ mean a small business should be considered a fly-by-night operation that probably doesn't pay its bills, as was implied in the original post. There are much better ways of determining whether that's the case. Kate ------------------------------------- Kate Binder Prospect Hill Publishing Services kate@prospecthillpub.com / www.prospecthillpub.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:22:23 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: Indexes for User Guides Karen Field wrote: > > ... as I write and edit user guides, I find that verbs in gerund form > could really help the user. ... These entries would be double-posted > by making main entries out of the nouns in subentries, of course. I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to index verbs in a task-oriented document, where doing so seems likely to "really help the user." (Of course, if a client's style prohibits verbs and I can't convince them to reconsider, I go with their decision.) --David ============================= David M. Brown - Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ============================= N O W A V A I L A B L E ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ Try HTML Indexer, the easiest way to create and maintain real back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 14:29:11 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rica Night Subject: Re: Indexes for User Guides Karen writes: >Here's the deal: I know that using verbs (partically verbs alone) as main >entries is generally not a good idea. But as I write and edit user guides,= I >find that verbs in gerund form could really help the user. For example: >
deleting records in your database files from the server. >These entries would be double-posted by making main entries out of the= nouns >in subentries, of course. By my lights, a gerund *is* a noun. Definitions from three of the=20 dictionaries now open on my desk (I'm researching hyphens in military ranks= =20 for an international multiauthor book I'm currently copyediting):=20 "a noun formed from a verb" (Canadian Oxford Dictionary) "a verb form functioning as a noun" (Concise Oxford Dictionary) "a verbal noun" (Merriam-Webter's 10th New Collegiate Dictionary)=20 So main entries like "deleting," "printing," and so on are not only very=20 common in certain kinds of indexes--they're also, as far as I know, quite=20 acceptable. Hope this helps, Rica >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Ms.) Ri=E7a Night rnight@inforamp.net Freelance Copyeditor, Proofreader, Indexer, Trainer Toronto, Canada 416-463-EDIT "Life is just a bowl of queries." <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:34:05 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Schultz, Darrel" Subject: Re: Indexes for User Guides I recently revised the indexing guidelines for our technical publications department and recommended an approach to indexing tasks that is similar to what Marsha recommends--It's important that the verbal you choose to index as a main entry is not too generic in nature. For example, entering, revising, working with, and setting up are verbals that tend to have a multitude of noun topics to which they could apply. As Marsha mentioned, this results in a cumbersome list of subentries beneath the verbal. However, the more specific the verb, the more it makes sense to index it as a main heading. For example, reconciling, updating, printing, deleting, ranking, sorting, generating, populating, and so on, all refer to fairly specific actions or concepts about which the user might seek specific information. Naturally, the verbals that you choose to use as main headings will depend on the subject matter, but you should not feel constrained to use a verbal if it seems likely that the user would look for that particular action. And of course, for any verbal that you index as a main entry, you should double-post its object. Darrel Schultz Editor, Technical Publications J.D. Edwards World Source Company (303) 334-1664 > -----Original Message----- > From: Marsha Lofthouse [SMTP:marsha_lofthouse@TARGETSMART.COM] > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 12:04 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Indexes for User Guides > > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand > this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE7AE0.10D2AB9C > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > > Karen (who asked about using verbs, specifically gerunds, in indexes for > user's guides) > > I have indexed several computer user's guides and often use gerunds. I > agree > with you regarding the task-oriented approach. If I, as a user, wanted to > know how to print my document, I would first look for the word "print" or > "printing" and expect to see "document" as a subentry if the instructions > for printing other things differ from that of documents. I feel the word > "printing" is more descriptive of the task involved than the word "print". > I > use the same approach in my online help indexes. > > One thing to watch out for, however, is the tendency toward having a main > entry, such as "selecting", then having 20 subs below it because there are > so many things that the user or reader can select. > > I'm eager to hear what other people on this list think. > > Marsha Lofthouse > TargetSmart, Inc. > Denver, CO > mailto:marsha_lofthouse@targetsmart.com > Visit our Web site at http://www.targetsmart.com > > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE7AE0.10D2AB9C > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > > charset=3Diso-8859-1"> > 5.0.1461.43"> > RE: Indexes for User Guides > > > >

Karen (who asked about using verbs, specifically = > gerunds, in indexes for user's guides) >

> >

I have indexed several computer user's guides and = > often use gerunds. I agree with you regarding the task-oriented = > approach. If I, as a user, wanted to know how to print my document, I = > would first look for the word "print" or "printing" = > and expect to see "document" as a subentry if the = > instructions for printing other things differ from that of documents. I = > feel the word "printing" is more descriptive of the task = > involved than the word "print". I use the same approach in my = > online help indexes.

> >

One thing to watch out for, however, is the tendency = > toward having a main entry, such as "selecting", then having = > 20 subs below it because there are so many things that the user or = > reader can select.

> >

I'm eager to hear what other people on this list = > think. >

> >

Marsha Lofthouse >
TargetSmart, Inc. >
Denver, CO >
TARGET=3D"_blank">mailto:marsha_lofthouse@targetsmart.com >
Visit our Web site at HREF=3D"http://www.targetsmart.com" = > TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.targetsmart.com >

> > > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE7AE0.10D2AB9C-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:40:27 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Marketing Indexes to Freelance Packagers (was Textbook indexing ) At 02:19 PM 3/30/1999 -0500, Kate Binder wrote: >Sonsie, I've certainly learned to respect your opinion over the months >I've been subscribing to this list, and I agree with you that having a >business phone listing and advertising in the yellow pages can increase a >business's credibility. > >However, I do feel those things are optional, and I still feel strongly >that not doing them does _not_ mean a small business should be considered >a fly-by-night operation that probably doesn't pay its bills, as was >implied in the original post. There are much better ways of determining >whether that's the case. Thanks, Kate, for the kind words. I do think most of these moves are optional, not required. But since they all enhance one's credibility, why not do that "just because"? Most--but not all--of us have had problems over the years with the smallest businesses we've dealt with. Some have also had payment problems with the big corporate entities in the publishing field. However, the rate of attrition among mom-and-pop operations is substantially higher than it is among the corporate giants. And you have a better chance of recovering money from a biggie than you do from a one-person operation when that person declares bankruptcy. Heck, I even got a job once from a packager who had contacted another indexer, sent half the book off to that person, who promptly disappeared and was completely unavailable. Phone disconnected, mail returned, etc. It's not just small packagers, but very small businesses in general that tend to have more serious cash flow problems. I probably should ask for trade references from smaller companies, because they are most likely not listed with D&B. I think I must be, as the D&B rep calls me regularly for updates. But I suspect many newer companies are not. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 14:40:46 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: Obtaining The INDEXER My very small town bank did currency conversion for me once back in the mid-80's. They couldn't do it on the spot as I recall, but it only took a couple of days. Ann Truesdale > This is not that easy to do where I live! And I'll bet other Americans not > living in large metropolitan areas have the same problem. In the past, and > with no problems from SI, I have bought the SI's indexing course materials > (for reference use) by sending dollar checks. > > Cynthia Bertelsen > > > >** Special Note to Americans ** > >If you decide to subscribe to The INDEXER or join SI or IASC do not send an > >American check in US dollars. Do these folks a favor and obtain a foreign > >draft or international money order in the appropriate currency. > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:46:12 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Larry Baker Subject: Packagers As for the newfound direction of the packager thread, let me weigh in with a publisher's perspective. We've worked with good packagers and bad packagers. Good authors and bad authors. Good indexers and bad indexers. Good copyeditors and bad copyeditors. Good proofreaders and bad proofreaders. I'm sure I've performed well on enough occasions to be called a good editor contact, and badly on some occasions to be called a bad editor contact. Ditto for our company. The point? We ARE all in the publisher community. And there are good experiences and bad experiences for any given situation. But, whoa, I don't know about this apples and oranges thing about packagers. Yeah, there have been times when we've worked with one or two packagers who act solely as the middle man (not that there's anything wrong with that). But we've worked with many other packagers who handle full editorial duties, too. One packager we work with, for example, specializes in a particular subject area, knows people in that industry that we don't, has them put together the book, and supervises/edits/etc. the finished product. Then we put whatever touches on it that are required on our end. That packager's role is every bit as important to the whole puzzle as an indexer is. (Maybe packaging in the reference publishing industry is different than in other types of publishing, but the apples/oranges characterization of packaging seemed pretty harsh to me.) Larry Baker Larry.Baker@gale.com The Gale Group ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 13:45:28 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Schroeder Subject: Re: Marketing Indexes to Freelance Packagers There is going to be a panel discussion on packaging by some reputable companies at the Indianapolis ASI annual meeting on Friday. I am sure that they will be able to give the attendees a lot of information on the subject. Sandi Schroeder Vice President, ASI ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:02:39 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Ardith B. Ayotte, RT" Subject: International Money Orders Lots of good "stuff" lately on the list. Thank you to those who take the time and give the energy. I consider our list quite a learning experience - ongoing education. RE: INTERNATIONAL MONEY ORDERS Because this is helpful information for my own needs in indexing, I called my local, rural post office and inquired. The reply is that they do not provide them as there is no demand for them. However, at the small post office near the Navy Base just 20 minutes away, they do stock international money orders due to demand. He said this is typical *everywhere* in the Post Offices; i.e., stocking them/or not due to demand. However, when I was an advocate here in Virginia for a Kenyan this past winter, we found international money orders at our local fastmart store. Our local STATE bank certainly provides them, but they told me it can take "a couple days" since they must be processed through their main branch. Hope this helps. Ardith Ayotte, RT ABBA Index Services Virginia ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:55:29 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: Re: Indexes for User Guides Who said that verbs in gerund form are not allowed? This is a prime example of a rule that is meant to be broken. There are no rules in indexing (well, almost)--only common sense and logic. Elinor Lindheimer elinorl@mcn.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 14:58:51 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Sherman Grayson Subject: Re: Marketing Indexes to Freelance Packagers (was Textbook indexing ) --------------7A2CD31808045D06C1A9752B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paul Kish wrote: > Just please, don't compare yourself, professionally, > to an indexer. We may both work in publishing, but otherwise, like they > say, it's apples and oranges. > I hope I'm not going out on a limb here but I'd like to comment that I'm CERTAIN Paul didn't mean to insinuate or imply anything "elitist" in this statement. Julie Grayson --------------7A2CD31808045D06C1A9752B Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paul Kish wrote:
Just please, don't compare yourself, professionally,
to an indexer.  We may both work in publishing, but otherwise, like they
say, it's apples and oranges.
I hope I'm not going out on a limb here but I'd like to comment that I'm CERTAIN Paul didn't mean to insinuate or imply anything "elitist" in this statement.

Julie Grayson --------------7A2CD31808045D06C1A9752B-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:34:06 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: Obtaining The INDEXER All -- In response to the posting from Nancy Mulvany, I wish to point out= that: (1) The international affiliation agreement she refers to has not yet bee= n officially approved. The deadline for ASI members to submit their ballot= s is 4/15/99. (2) Membership in affiliated societies does *not* include several ASI membership benefits, such as the the ASI KEY WORDS newsletter, a copy of the annual Membership Directory, the opportunity to be listed in the Indexer Locator, eligibility to serve on ASI committees or as officers of= ASI chapters, eligibility to belong to ASI Special Interest Groups, ASI membership rates for Professional Development Workshops delivered for ASI= chapters, and various other ASI membership benefits. BTW, although I am posting this information on INDEX-L, I'd like to point= out that the ASI-L discussion list is the appropriate forum for discussin= g ASI-related business matters. If you are an ASI member and have not received an invitation to join the ASI-L discussion list, please let me know. Lori Lathrop (LoriLathrop@compuserve.com) ASI President, 1998-1999 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:51:07 -0800 Reply-To: Bonny.McLaughlin@cgu.edu Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bonny McLaughlin Organization: cgs.edu Subject: Obtaining the Indexer--foreign drafts Genealogists like to use Ruesch International for foreign drafts. Just call 800-424-2923, take a few minutes to set up an account, and tell them what you need. It's been a while since I've used them, but if I recall, I got the draft in 1-2 days at most and the fee was $2.00. May have gone up. Bonny McLaughlin ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:49:49 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: International Money Orders At 03:02 PM 3/30/1999 -0500, Ardith B. Ayotte, RT wrote: >The reply is that they do not provide them as there is no demand for them. >However, at the small post office near the Navy Base just 20 minutes away, >they do stock international money orders due to demand. > >He said this is typical *everywhere* in the Post Offices; i.e., stocking >them/or not due to demand. This is very helpful, Ardith. Now I know to prepare in advance by calling my post office and inquiring. I bet we do carry them, as we have a large college campus in town with a fairly sizeable international student body. Thanks for the tip! =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 16:40:47 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kate Binder Subject: Re: Marketing Indexes to Freelance Packagers On 3/30/99 2:14 PM, Paul Kish wrote: >As I've discovered, these folks >usually have impossible cash-flow problems, and guaranteed the phone bill >and the car payment get more attention than some poor indexer, who may not >even live in the same state as the producer. If you want to cut yourself off from an entire class of potential customers based on bad experiences with individual small businesses, go right ahead. I hope your own customers don't feel the same way, since your own business is apparently too small to have a web site or its own domain, also things on which we can all be judged. >Yes, it's true, most freelance indexers aren't in the phone book either, >but then, the only people they owe money to, like the mortgage holder and >the phone company, already know how to find them, and have some pretty big >screws they can turn if the money stops flowing. > >Indexers sell their time, their knowledge, their experience. You are an >independent producer. You buy other people's time, cut-rate, so you can >re-sell it, and make enough off the top, hopefully, to support yourself. I do not repackage other people's services. I work hard on editing, writing, designing, and otherwise producing a variety of print and electronic products for my customers. I occasionally have need to subcontract services like indexing, for which I pass through expenses to my customers without taking a cut. I run my business like a business -- in other words, the business accounting is completely separate from my personal finances. I always pay other freelancers on time because I _am_ a freelancer and I know that they deserve professional respect. I also refer projects that don't fall within my own variety of skills -- such as indexing, if that's all a customer wants. For this I also receive no fee. I might also mention, irrelevant though it actually is in the present discussion, that my cash flow is excellent and has been so since the day I hung out a shingle several years ago. If it weren't, I'd quit this and get a job. >This is not an indictment, or even a judgement. It's just reality. No-one >is calling you names. Just please, don't compare yourself, professionally, >to an indexer. We may both work in publishing, but otherwise, like they >say, it's apples and oranges. You are a professional indexer with education and training, running a small business. I am a professional lots-of-other-things, with education and training, running a small business. Your reply seems to characterize me and others like me as some kind of bloodsuckers, and that really hurts coming from a member of a group that I hope to learn from and work with. If you don't want to work with me or other small businesses, fine, but I needed, for my own sanity if nothing else, to explain how completely off-base your rude and condescending comments were. I won't take up the list's time with any more of my regrettable defensiveness. Kate ------------------------------------- Kate Binder Prospect Hill Publishing Services kate@prospecthillpub.com / www.prospecthillpub.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 14:55:33 MST Reply-To: kbright@hhs.unco.edu Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Authenticated sender is <.kbright.cmds.hnhs.academic@hhs> From: Kathryn Bright Organization: University of Northern Colorado Subject: Re: Gerunds as main headings I think we ended the discussion of this topic but I was just reminded of the title of one of the classic books on indexing and thought it might end this discussion once and for all. The book is G. Norman Knight's If that doesn't suggest that gerunds are accepted as main headings ( even in non-technical literature), I don't know what does. Kathryn Banks ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 16:08:44 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Nancy C. Ford" Subject: Re: Word indexers "Jan C. Wright" wrote: > Hi all, > > I would like to compile a list of freelance indexers who can work in Word. > If you are have Word indexing experience, and would like to be on my list, > please send an email message to wordindex@wrightinformation.com. Please > only send email if you _already_ have Word indexing experience, not if you > are looking to learn it, or are trying to learn it. > > Thanks, > > Jan Wright > > +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= > Wright Information Indexing Services > http://www.wrightinformation.com > Jancw@wrightinformation.com > +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Hello Jan, I have used Word for embedded indexing in master documents. You may remember me from A to Zia activities. I attended several workshops and meetings before you returned to Washington. To date I have indexed scholarly works for UNM Press, Ancient City Press, Rowman & Littlefield, and the City of Santa Fe. My contact information is: Nancy C. Ford Indexing Services 66 Skyland Tijeras, NM 87059 (505) 281-7837 email: nancford@nmia.com Please let me know if you would like additional information. -- Nancy Ford nancford@nmia.com Indexing and Editing Services ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 09:18:43 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dwight Walker Organization: W W Walker Web Development Subject: ALIAINDEXERS Hi If you are interested in Australian indexing, please join our list. It deals with specially Australian issues like distance education, Australian products etc etc. If you think there is no difference between US and Australia in these areas of indexing please say so we can make a role out for this list. As always us Aussies are very laid back and tend to be more interested in what is happening in the other parts of the globe than our own country. I hope this reverses this pet aversion with looking at own patch. Details of joining: email to: listproc@alia.org.au subscribe aliaindexers joe bloggs replace joe bloggs with your name send messages to: aliaindexers@alia.org.au It is sponsored by the Australian Library and Information Association and has me from AusSI to do the odd jobs of running it - maintaining the list - the sysop. It is NOT moderated. Please tell a friend about it and tell me if you have any ideas for starting the ball rolling on it. There is no traffic at present. Cheers Dwight -- -------------------------------------------------------- Dwight Walker WWWalker Web Development, PO Box 288, Wentworthville, Sydney, 2145, Australia http://www.wwwalker.com.au, http://www.speakeasy.org/~dwight (US mirror) tel +61-2-96371649, mob +61-412-405727, fax +61-2-97772058 ICQ No. 4631678, handle: wwwalker (www.mirabilis.com) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 20:20:02 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: Marketing Indexes to Freelance Packagers (was Textbook indexi... OTOH, some of the best service I have received has been from small operations *if* they can remain solvent. Obviously, the attrition rate is high. Perhaps asking how long they have been in business would be one criteria in judging credibility. Of course, they could lie. ;-) Ann Truesdale Sonsie wrote: > Most--but not all--of us have had problems over the years with the smallest > businesses we've dealt with. Some have also had payment problems with the > big corporate entities in the publishing field. However, the rate of > attrition among mom-and-pop operations is substantially higher than it is > among the corporate giants. And you have a better chance of recovering money > from a biggie than you do from a one-person operation when that person > declares bankruptcy. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 22:12:32 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barry Rofman Organization: @Home Network Subject: Re: Obtaining the Indexer--foreign drafts The fee is now $3.00 and it took well over a week, nearly 2 in fact, o get the check back when I used them twice recently. It's easy to do however, and they were very pleasant. Rebecca Rofman > > > Bonny McLaughlin wrote: > > > > > > Genealogists like to use Ruesch International for foreign drafts. Just > > > call 800-424-2923, take a few minutes to set up an account, and tell > > > them what you need. It's been a while since I've used them, > > > but if I recall, I got the draft in 1-2 days at most and the fee was > > > $2.00. May have gone up. > > > > > > Bonny McLaughlin ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 19:44:59 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: Marketing Indexes to Freelance Packagers In-Reply-To: <199903302143.NAA04804@dns1.mcn.org> Kate Binder wrote: >You are a professional indexer with education and training, running a >small business. I am a professional lots-of-other-things, with education >and training, running a small business. Your reply seems to characterize >me and others like me as some kind of bloodsuckers, and that really hurts >coming from a member of a group that I hope to learn from and work with. > >If you don't want to work with me or other small businesses, fine, but I >needed, for my own sanity if nothing else, to explain how completely >off-base your rude and condescending comments were. I won't take up the >list's time with any more of my regrettable defensiveness. I don't find your clarification of your situation to be regrettable, and I don't have the kinds of experiences that others are describing. Some of my best contacts are with packagers and subcontractors, and I have been given referrals by those clients as well. I regret the broad brushstrokes that have been occurring, but I find mailing lists sometimes sound that way. Those who speak up sometimes seem to speak for the majority when in fact they are just those willing to speak. Best, Victoria ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:41:50 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Robin Hilp Subject: Melissa question Somebody wrote: >In light of the "Melissa Virus" hoopla--I will send an >attached Word97 doc upon request (I use Netscape mail for my homeaccount--so >all should be well!). Today our IS manager said it doesn't matter what mailer you're *using* -- Melissa will strike if you have Outlook or Exchange *installed*. Even if you've never setup or used Outlook or Exchange. That's not what I understood from reading the virus (ok, "worm", if you want to be technical) warnings -- I thought Melissa looked for addresses specifically in the Outlook (MS) format? Does anyone understand this well enough to confirm/explain? Thanks! === RolyBear ICQ 1863181 (Robin Hilp) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 00:52:45 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hannah Huse Subject: Indy hotel - now full I was told that the Crowne Plaza Union Station, host hotel, is totally booked for the conference dates. They told me all the ASI reserved rooms are booked and so are the rest of the rooms in the hotel. They strongly recommended an Expess hotel 5 miles away, but that is not too appealing. We are looking elsewhere. Any recommendations? Hannah ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 01:39:27 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: Indexes for User Guides All -- In response to Karen Field (KarenF@TRITECH.COM) ... Gerunds such as "changing" and "creating" are more appropriate as subentries than as main headings. Other gerunds, such as "installing" or= "printing" are appropriate as main headings. As Darrel Schultz pointed o= ut in his response, the more specific the gerund is, the more appropriate it= is as a main heading in your index. I recall seeing an index some years ago that had major problems because t= he indexer faithfully followed the author's terminology, and the author used= some gerunds interchangeably. This particular index had the following ma= in headings and cross-references: changing. ~See also~ customizing; editing; modifying customizing. ~See also~ changing; editing; modifying editing. ~See also~ changing; customizing; modifying modifying. ~See also~ changing; customizing; editing Consequently, the hapless users of the manual had to "guess" which of the= four interchangeable gerunds the author and indexer had used. Hope this helps! .... Lori Lori Lathrop (LoriLathrop@compuserve.com) Lathrop Media Services Web site - http://idt.net/~lathro19 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 03:00:06 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: gerunds I'm not a technical indexer, but as far as I know the general rule for form of index main headings is that they must be ^noun phrases^--which includes gerunds. (In other words, a gerund is the form of a verb that is really a noun, so it's not the kind of verb that doesn't work.) Gerunds are often used in social science/humanities indexes, as well as (presumably) in technical indexes. Do Mi Stauber ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 10:05:06 +0100 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: International money transfers I notice that there is a service called Moneygram (www.moneygram.com) which is supposed to be cheaper than the banks (not difficult). I don't have any experience of it to base a recommendation on, though. Regards _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 06:05:23 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Deborah Patton Subject: packager contracts - punt or sign?? I did a job last year for a packager who, after we agreed on the job, sent me a P.O. for it with the terms that payment would be in 60 days. (And it about *was* too!) That alone made me hesitant to do business with them again. Now they've sent me a six-page contract that seems way over the top. It's not a negotiated contract in the least since I had no part in drawing it up, and I'm leaning toward not signing it. In fact there's a clause of Entire Understanding -- sign the whole thing or forget it. It's a Washington, DC outfit (a town with too many lawyers perhaps??) and I think that they have one main client with whom I've done other business with -- but it's such a large client (many departments/employees) that we probably aren't working with the same folks. However -- what do you all think of some of these "mutual promises and covenants?" Client Contact (prohibiting me from theirs); Work Made for Hire (protects *their* intellectual property rights); Confidentiality (who can I tell in Baltimore that would even care??); Non-Competition (five-yr. ban on me doing any publication production, including without limitation, designing, developing, writing, editing, and planning services, either directly or indirectly... with any of their clients); Compensation (okay/not great but within "roughly thirty (30) days following receipt of invoice); no subcontracting -- at least two sections on that; Indemnification; and the usual stuff about me being an independent contractor and neither party is a partner or agent of the other. It really covers them for breach of anything and I'm open to a lawsuit if I go around them in any way. I have other customers seeking my indexing services. And it's time for some marketing so I'll be looking for new ones. This packager found me, I never found them. What say you, collective wisdom? Sign? or punt? thanks -- Deborah ============================== Deborah E. Patton, Freelance Indexer Baltimore, MD, USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 06:53:49 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Iris B. Ailin-Pyzik" Subject: Re: packager contracts - punt or sign?? That five-year ban stuff is way over the line. And after all this stuff "roughly" thirty days? Unless they are employing you full time (ha ha) forget it. And tell them why. Iris deborahpatton@mindspring.com wrote: > I did a job last year for a packager who, after we agreed on the job, sent > me a P.O. for it with the terms that payment would be in 60 days. (And it > about *was* too!) That alone made me hesitant to do business with them > again. Now they've sent me a six-page contract that seems way over the top. > It's not a negotiated contract in the least since I had no part in drawing > it up, and I'm leaning toward not signing it. In fact there's a clause of > Entire Understanding -- sign the whole thing or forget it. It's a > Washington, DC outfit (a town with too many lawyers perhaps??) and I think > that they have one main client with whom I've done other business with -- > but it's such a large client (many departments/employees) that we probably > aren't working with the same folks. However -- what do you all think of > some of these "mutual promises and covenants?" > > Client Contact (prohibiting me from theirs); Work Made for Hire (protects > *their* intellectual property rights); Confidentiality (who can I tell in > Baltimore that would even care??); Non-Competition (five-yr. ban on me doing > any publication production, including without limitation, designing, > developing, writing, editing, and planning services, either directly or > indirectly... with any of their clients); Compensation (okay/not great but > within "roughly thirty (30) days following receipt of invoice); no > subcontracting -- at least two sections on that; Indemnification; and the > usual stuff about me being an independent contractor and neither party is a > partner or agent of the other. It really covers them for breach of anything > and I'm open to a lawsuit if I go around them in any way. > > I have other customers seeking my indexing services. And it's time for some > marketing so I'll be looking for new ones. This packager found me, I never > found them. What say you, collective wisdom? Sign? or punt? > > thanks -- Deborah > > ============================== > Deborah E. Patton, Freelance Indexer > Baltimore, MD, USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 07:13:21 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" Subject: Re: packager contracts - punt or sign?? I would say PUNT! I really don't like the noncompetition clause, especially the part about working "indirectly" for a comeptitor. Who are all their other clients and how would you ever be able to know who they are? You might quite innocently do a job for someone they consider a competitor, no matter how indirect. The likelihood that they'd actually investigate you to see who you were working for is slim, but if something came to their attention they'd have legal rights to sue you. In another non-indexing area in which I work part-time, the "breach of anything" waiver has been shown to hold up in court, even in situtations where one might think it wouldn't. So be careful! I've signed "work-for hire" contracts but I'd never sign a waiver of ALL of my rights, even if I were a beginning indexer with few clients (assuming I wasn't starving). Paula Durbin-Westby dwindex@louisa.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 08:23:30 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kate Binder Subject: Re: packager contracts - punt or sign?? On 3/31/99 6:05 AM, Deborah Patton wrote: >Client Contact (prohibiting me from theirs); Work Made for Hire (protects >*their* intellectual property rights); Confidentiality (who can I tell in >Baltimore that would even care??); Non-Competition (five-yr. ban on me doing >any publication production, including without limitation, designing, >developing, writing, editing, and planning services, either directly or >indirectly... with any of their clients); Compensation (okay/not great but >within "roughly thirty (30) days following receipt of invoice); no >subcontracting -- at least two sections on that; Indemnification; and the >usual stuff about me being an independent contractor and neither party is a >partner or agent of the other. It really covers them for breach of anything >and I'm open to a lawsuit if I go around them in any way. It's all stuff I've seen in lots of contracts, and I'd sign it all except the noncompete clause. Change that to read that you can't work for or contact their clients _while you're working for them_ (sounds like the client contact clause already says this?) and I'd do it. This stuff is scary-sounding, but it's fairly standard publishing legalese. Kate ------------------------------------- Kate Binder Prospect Hill Publishing Services kate@prospecthillpub.com / www.prospecthillpub.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 08:24:56 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diane Worden Subject: Re: Indy hotel - now full Hannah, Speaking only as someone who has been to Indy for other mtgs iin the past and not as an ASI conf planner, a Marriott and a Ramada used to be within a few blocks of the Crown Plaza, very well within easy walking distance. Diane in Kazoo ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 08:25:42 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Hughes Subject: Re: packager contracts - punt or sign?? In a message dated 99-03-31 06:07:30 EST, deborahpatton@MINDSPRING.COM writes: << Non-Competition (five-yr. ban on me doing any publication production, including without limitation, designing, developing, writing, editing, and planning services, either directly or indirectly... with any of their clients); >> That's something I'd never sign. Is it current clients, or future clients? Did they supply you with a list of the clients? Whew.. I'd avoid something like that, like the plague. Sharon ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 08:35:15 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pamela Venneman Subject: Re: Indy hotel - now full Good Morning, I just called the hotel this am and they said they have ASI rooms available. Pamela Venneman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 08:59:38 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Becky & Bob Hornyak Subject: Re: Indy hotel - now full Hannah, It depends on what you want to spend. Also downtown are an Omni, an Embassy Suites, a Hyatt, a Hampton Inn, and a Courtyard by Marriott. If I can help further, let me know. Becky Hornyak, Indexer bhornyak@iquest.net -----Original Message----- From: Hannah Huse To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Wednesday, March 31, 1999 12:53 AM Subject: Indy hotel - now full >I was told that the Crowne Plaza Union Station, host hotel, is totally booked >for the conference dates. They told me all the ASI reserved rooms are booked >and so are the rest of the rooms in the hotel. They strongly recommended an >Expess hotel 5 miles away, but that is not too appealing. We are looking >elsewhere. > >Any recommendations? > >Hannah > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 09:10:15 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rimmer Subject: Re: Indy hotel - now full There is a Radisson City Centre, a Courtyard by Marriott Downtown, and a Residence INN Downtown. These hotels are all around the Crown Plaza. If you need any help let me know. Pat Rimmer -----Original Message----- From: Hannah Huse To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Wednesday, March 31, 1999 1:28 AM Subject: Indy hotel - now full >I was told that the Crowne Plaza Union Station, host hotel, is totally booked >for the conference dates. They told me all the ASI reserved rooms are booked >and so are the rest of the rooms in the hotel. They strongly recommended an >Expess hotel 5 miles away, but that is not too appealing. We are looking >elsewhere. > >Any recommendations? > >Hannah > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 08:31:33 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Schroeder Subject: Re: Indy hotel - now full I will check with the hotel later today and confirm what the problem is. This happened a couple of weeks ago and when I called we still had rooms in the block. If anyone else is experiencing a problem, please e-mail we directly and I will get it taken care of. Sandi Schroeder Vice President, ASI sanindex@xsite.net. -----Original Message----- From: Hannah Huse To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 11:53 PM Subject: Indy hotel - now full >I was told that the Crowne Plaza Union Station, host hotel, is totally booked >for the conference dates. They told me all the ASI reserved rooms are booked >and so are the rest of the rooms in the hotel. They strongly recommended an >Expess hotel 5 miles away, but that is not too appealing. We are looking >elsewhere. > >Any recommendations? > >Hannah > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 10:27:58 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Iris B. Ailin-Pyzik" Subject: Large publisher, low rates OK, I may have mentioned this to someone before, but I believe it was in a private post. I contacted a large publisher in the field I used to work in (technical scientific, although they do other stuff, too) and asked about their indexing work. They told me they use freelancers at $1.75 per book page, and don't pay for reference pages or blank pages (their words), and that if this was acceptable to me, I should send them a resume and sample. I did that, got a phone call back with this same info, and they said if this was acceptable to me (again), they would send out their indexer instructions. There seemed to be a "take it or leave it" attitude on their part, although the second call was with someone new to their organization who was sort of acting as a coordinator. I would be interested in hearing comments on this rate, on-list or privately - other than just that it is very low. One has to wonder if they have a steady stream of newbies who do this for the experience and then move on. Any thoughts? When I first spoke to them they said their indexers "made it up in volume". Has anyone else encountered this? Does anyone out there recognize this publisher? I would love to "talk" to you. Iris ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 10:30:43 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hannah Huse Subject: Indy hotel - now full, maybe, maybe not Thanks to all who gave me advice on alternative hotels in the conference area. After reading postings that gave me some hope that there might still be rooms available at the host hotel, I called again this morning...this time calling the 800 number after the hotel did not answer. I was told they had just one ASI-block room available, but only for Wed thru Sat night. But there was a regular rate room available for Tues night. So now I have a reservation at Crowne Plaza Union Station, and have asked for written confirmation. I don't know what is happening, but am posting my experience for what it's worth. If others have a similar experience of being told no rooms are available, note Sandi Schoeder's earlier post (of 3/31), and checking the situation. Thanks again for all your suggestions. I am keeping them in my file-just in case. Hannah ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 07:34:50 -0800 Reply-To: broccoli@briefcase.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kevin Broccoli Subject: Re: Indy hotel - now full I was able to get a room for Thurs, Fri, & Sat pm. ...but I still need one for Tues & Wed pm. Can those that named hotels post more info about them? Maybe the phone number if you know it. Thanks, Kevin Broccoli Sandi Schroeder wrote: > I will check with the hotel later today and confirm > what the problem is. > This happened a couple of weeks ago and when I > called we still had rooms in > the block. If anyone else is experiencing a problem, > please e-mail we > directly and I will get it taken care of. > > Sandi Schroeder > Vice President, ASI > sanindex@xsite.net. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Hannah Huse > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L VMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU> > Date: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 11:53 PM > Subject: Indy hotel - now full > > > >I was told that the Crowne Plaza Union Station, > host hotel, is totally > booked > >for the conference dates. They told me all the > ASI reserved rooms are > booked > >and so are the rest of the rooms in the hotel. > They strongly recommended > an > >Expess hotel 5 miles away, but that is not too > appealing. We are looking > >elsewhere. > > > >Any recommendations? > > > >Hannah > > > _________________________________________________________ Better than free email: shared calendar, files, and more... Get your 'Visto Briefcase' at http://www.visto.com/info ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 10:37:58 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Large publisher, low rates In-Reply-To: <199903311031.rg4ftr.b2.37kbi17.1@mx9.mindspring.com> At 10:27 AM 3/31/99 -0500, you wrote: > >I would be interested in hearing comments on this rate, on-list or privately - >other than just that it is very low. One has to wonder if they have a steady >stream of newbies who do this for the experience and then move on. Any >thoughts? When I first spoke to them they said their indexers "made it up in >volume". There is a very simple way to look a this: How many pages per hour can you index? How much per hour do you need to live? Ten pages per hour = $17.50 per hour. Can you live on that? How steady is the flow of work? Twenty pages per hour = $35 per hour, but that's not much if you only get a couple of projects per year. Dick Evans ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 09:50:10 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: cindexusers discussion list Thanks to everyone who responded regarding an Internet discussion list for Cindex users. There is a great deal of enthusiasm for such a list so I've formed one at the Onelist site and it is now available for subscriptions. The name of the list is "cindexusers." You can sign up either by visiting Onelist at http://www.onelist.com or by going directly to a signup form specifically for cindexusers at: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/cindexusers Those without web access can join by sending e-mail to the following: cindexusers-subscribe@onelist.com It's my hope, and that of many of you who sent me e-mail, that we will be able to exchange tips, tricks, and techniques to help us better use the many features of Cindex. I look forward to seeing you on the list. Craig Brown ===================================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing http://www.i1.net/~lastword (314)352-9094 fax: (314)481-9254 ===================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 11:06:55 -0500 Reply-To: kamm@sky-software.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kamm Y. Schreiner" Subject: Re: Indy hotel - now full, maybe, maybe not In-Reply-To: <199903311533.KAA19308@mx05.erols.com> I has exactly the same experience as you Hannah. Seems that something is fishy. Kamm Hannah wrote: Thanks to all who gave me advice on alternative hotels in the conference area. After reading postings that gave me some hope that there might still be rooms available at the host hotel, I called again this morning...this time calling the 800 number after the hotel did not answer. I was told they had just one ASI-block room available, but only for Wed thru Sat night. But there was a regular rate room available for Tues night. So now I have a reservation at Crowne Plaza Union Station, and have asked for written confirmation. I don't know what is happening, but am posting my experience for what it's worth. If others have a similar experience of being told no rooms are available, note Sandi Schoeder's earlier post (of 3/31), and checking the situation. Thanks again for all your suggestions. I am keeping them in my file-just in case. Hannah ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 11:07:49 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Helen Schinske Subject: OT: sending money abroad from U.S. Nancy Mulvany wrote: <> Some people suggested using the post office to get international money orders. The U.S. post office does do IMOs, but *not* in other than US dollars. See http://www.uspsglobal.com/info/faq/infopost.htm . I ran into this when trying to order some books from Australia -- ended up having to use Ruesch International, as someone else suggested. I couldn't get a foreign draft without a big fee from any local bank, either (and I do *not* live in a small town!). My bank didn't do them at all, my husband's bank wouldn't do them for me, and when I got my husband in there, it turned out the fee was too big anyway (about a third of the amount I was trying to send, IIRC). Mucho hassle. (And don't ask why my husband and I have separate banks. Inertia, basically. We've only been married six years.) So anyway, the only problem an IMO in US dollars solves is the question "Can I trust this check?" The person on the other end still has to pay through the nose for exchange fees in order to cash it. By the way, the URL for Ruesch International is (surprise) http://www.ruesch.com/ . Helen HSchinske@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 11:13:37 -0500 Reply-To: varney@mindspring.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: J Flenner Subject: Re: Indy hotel - now full If you want/need to find lodging other than at the Crowne Plaza Union Station in Indianapolis, and don't know about the "MapQuest Travel Guide," you might try it. I have used it in the past and found it to be a great aid. Here's the URL: http://www.mapquest.com/cgi-bin-travel/travel?link=travel&uid=u206adwe020czdpo&r andom=2400 Alternatively, go to: http://www.mapquest.com and then click on "Travel Guide." Type in the address of the conference site, which is: 123 W. Louisiana, Indianapolis, IN 46225 and click on "Lodging" (or "Dining" or whatever you're interested in locating). When the page with the address link comes up, click on the address link. You'll be given many choices regarding the lodging, e.g., number of stars (rating), price range, miles range distant from base address, pets, and on and on. Choose what you want in your lodging, and click on "Find Lodging." You'll be given a list of possibilities, if there are any that fit your specs in their database. Maybe this will be useful to some of you. Jackie F. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 10:23:21 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Schroeder Subject: Re: Indy hotel - now full, maybe, maybe not I just want to confirm what number you called: the 800 or the direct line to the hotel. I have already talked to the hotel about this and was assured that there was no problem. I have another call in to them now. Sandi -----Original Message----- From: Hannah Huse To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Wednesday, March 31, 1999 9:33 AM Subject: Indy hotel - now full, maybe, maybe not >Thanks to all who gave me advice on alternative hotels in the conference area. >After reading postings that gave me some hope that there might still be rooms >available at the host hotel, I called again this morning...this time calling >the 800 number after the hotel did not answer. I was told they had just one >ASI-block room available, but only for Wed thru Sat night. But there was a >regular rate room available for Tues night. >So now I have a reservation at Crowne Plaza Union Station, and have asked for >written confirmation. > >I don't know what is happening, but am posting my experience for what it's >worth. >If others have a similar experience of being told no rooms are available, note >Sandi Schoeder's earlier post (of 3/31), and checking the situation. > >Thanks again for all your suggestions. I am keeping them in my file-just in >case. > >Hannah > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 08:27:52 -0800 Reply-To: broccoli@briefcase.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kevin Broccoli Subject: Re: Large publisher, low rates I had an experience w/ a large publisher that also paid *very* low. They have a file chock-full of resumes from indexers, so they can usually find someone who will do it dirt cheap. (I didn't end up working for them.) I suppose I can understand a newbie working cheap to get some jobs done to put on their resume. But after 2 or 3 of those they should really up their rate. Even if they can live on that kind of money (for instance if they're not the chief bread-winner) it does the entire profession an injustice. The reason I say this is because not only does it make it harder for indexers who are living only off indexing income, but more importantly it makes indexing seem like a simple, inexpensive, almost secretarial task. We all know it's not...but low rates give that impression. In the ideal world, publishers should have trouble finding indexers to work for $1 to $1.75/pg. (unless it is for super-large-print-lots-of-white-space-tiny pages). Even if some experienced indexers are incredbily fast, why work for cheap when one can get more per pg? If you're that fast, you'll just make that much more. Broccoli Richard Evans wrote: > At 10:27 AM 3/31/99 -0500, you wrote: > > > >I would be interested in hearing comments on this > rate, on-list or > privately - > >other than just that it is very low. One has > to wonder if they have a steady > >stream of newbies who do this for the experience > and then move on. Any > >thoughts? When I first spoke to them they said > their indexers "made it up in > >volume". > > There is a very simple way to look a this: How > many pages per hour can you > index? How much per hour do you need to live? > Ten pages per hour = $17.50 > per hour. Can you live on that? How steady is > the flow of work? Twenty > pages per hour = $35 per hour, but that's not much > if you only get a couple > of projects per year. > > Dick Evans > _________________________________________________________ Better than free email: shared calendar, files, and more... Get your 'Visto Briefcase' at http://www.visto.com/info ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 08:39:01 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: packager contracts - punt or sign?? At 06:05 AM 3/31/1999 -0500, Deborah Patton wrote: >Client Contact (prohibiting me from theirs); Work Made for Hire (protects >*their* intellectual property rights); Confidentiality (who can I tell in >Baltimore that would even care??); These three are pretty common; I wouldn't worry or be offended about them. It sounds to me as if they have adapted a contract THEY had to sign with some big outfit...it's way too heavy-duty for a mere index, but I've run into these clauses before in some of my work, and they are acceptable, at least to me. Non-Competition (five-yr. ban on me doing >any publication production, including without limitation, designing, >developing, writing, editing, and planning services, either directly or >indirectly... with any of their clients); Compensation (okay/not great but >within "roughly thirty (30) days following receipt of invoice); That non-compete section sound way over-the-top to me. I would strike it out and initial the strikeout. Compensation sounds okay, as does the 30-day clause. >no subcontracting -- at least two sections on that; Indemnification; and the >usual stuff about me being an independent contractor and neither party is a >partner or agent of the other. It really covers them for breach of anything >and I'm open to a lawsuit if I go around them in any way. If you don't expect to hire help for this project, the "no subcontracting" clause ought not to be a bother. The indemnification clause might take a little looking at. It =sounds= like the typical lawyer gibberish, but without seeing it in full, I can't be sure. >I have other customers seeking my indexing services. And it's time for some >marketing so I'll be looking for new ones. This packager found me, I never >found them. What say you, collective wisdom? Sign? or punt? If they won't accept your changes, you can certainly live without this job. Contracts can always be negotiated...if they won't cooperate, too bad. You don't need to sign your life away. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 08:39:03 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Large publisher, low rates At 10:27 AM 3/31/1999 -0500, Iris B. Ailin-Pyzik wrote: >I would be interested in hearing comments on this rate, on-list or privately - >other than just that it is very low. One has to wonder if they have a steady >stream of newbies who do this for the experience and then move on. Any >thoughts? When I first spoke to them they said their indexers "made it up in >volume". Has anyone else encountered this? Does anyone out there recognize >this publisher? I would love to "talk" to you. Technical and scientific indexing is generally quite dense. How can you possibly "make it up in volume" in that situation? I haven't worked for $1.75 a page in at least 15 years, maybe longer. It's about half what I currently earn. I would pass on these people, unless you can be certain that the indexing is so "light" that you really can make it up in volume (very unlikely), and you are absolutely desperate for either money or experience. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 12:04:03 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rick Hurd Subject: Re: cindexusers discussion list In a message dated 31-Mar-99 9:52:42 AM Central Standard Time, lastword@I1.NET writes: << Thanks to everyone who responded regarding an Internet discussion list for Cindex users. There is a great deal of enthusiasm for such a list so I've formed one at the Onelist site and it is now available for subscriptions. The name of the list is "cindexusers." You can sign up either by visiting Onelist at http://www.onelist.com or by going directly to a signup form specifically for cindexusers at: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/cindexusers Those without web access can join by sending e-mail to the following: cindexusers-subscribe@onelist.com It's my hope, and that of many of you who sent me e-mail, that we will be able to exchange tips, tricks, and techniques to help us better use the many features of Cindex. I look forward to seeing you on the list. Craig Brown >> Thank you, Craig Brown! Very sincerely, Rick Hurd, Rick's Indexing, 2125 Birmingham Rd. Liberty Mo. 64068 USA Phone/Fax: 816-781-9042 Email: ricksindexing@hotmail.com URL: http://members.aol.com/Find884344/index.html ICQ NO: 10752175 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 12:11:39 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: packager contracts - punt or sign?? << Client Contact (prohibiting me from theirs); Work Made for Hire (protects *their* intellectual property rights); Confidentiality (who can I tell in Baltimore that would even care??); Non-Competition (five-yr. ban on me doing any publication production, including without limitation, designing, developing, writing, editing, and planning services, either directly or indirectly... with any of their clients)...>> Work made for hire is pretty normal, I think. I would worry, though, about client contact and non-competition. By nature your business is one in which you're very likely to work directly for their clients and competition. I don't see how they can prohibit you from doing this unless they're exclusively hiring you, which they're obviously not. Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 12:20:39 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Indy hotel - now full, maybe, maybe not I would recommend not calling the 800 number, but the direct number to the hotel. When I made my reservations a while ago, the 800 people told me there were no no-smoking rooms available on Tuesday. When I called the hotel directly (they were cut off from the 800 people by the snowstorm at that point, I think), they had plenty. I don't think they're communicating well with their national reservations office. Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 12:33:29 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "M. Jessie Barczak" Subject: Re: cindexusers discussion list At 12:04 PM 3/31/99 EST, you wrote: ... > > Those without web access can join by sending e-mail to the following: > > cindexusers-subscribe@onelist.com How do we subscribe? type "subscribe" in the message or in the subject? You forgot to tell us this... MJB ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 12:59:06 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "M. Jessie Barczak" Subject: Cindex "Users Discussion Group" Not long ago someone on this list "suggested" he would like to start a Cindex Users Discussion Group. Like a fool, I responded and got a reply back to join something called OneList. this is a commercial enterprise that "incorporates" various "discussion groups" from Soup to Nutz. Nutz is right. I subscribed only to find that I had to navigate through the OneList crud. An acquaintance of mine has started a similar list through a similar venue. It is OK but you have to put up with a lot of advertising and noise on your computer screen. I admit, I haven't gotten any emails on the Cindex "discussion group" yet. On my friend's list, whenever you access the discussion group your browser is automatically sent to that website and it remains on the page in a frame even when you change URLs. If this happens with OneList, at least you have been warned. I wonder if the "proprietor" of this Cindex "discussion group" works for OneList and is trying to enlist subscribers for a bonus? I am only speculating .. User beware! MJB Washington, DC ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 12:21:21 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: cindexusers discussion list On 3/31/1999 11:33 AM M. Jessie Barczak wrote (in part): >How do we subscribe? type "subscribe" in the message or in the subject? >You forgot to tell us this... You're correct, I didn't give detailed instructions. To subscribe by e-mail, you simply send e-mail to the address: cindexusers-subscribe@onelist.com To unsubscribe by e-mail, send e-mail to: cindexusers-unsubscribe@onelist.com Neither format requires a subject line or message content. They are optional. By the way, Jessie, you subscribed successfully. Thanks for joining the list. Craig Brown ===================================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing http://www.i1.net/~lastword (314)352-9094 fax: (314)481-9254 ===================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 13:29:17 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cheryl Jackson Subject: Re: Cindex "Users Discussion Group" One of the other mailing lists that I'm on is from OneList, and I can assure you that OneList doesn't force you to look at advertising constantly. Once you initially sign up for the mailing list, it works just like any other list -- you send and receive email through your email program. You never have to visit the OneList Web site again unless you want to change your preferences or subscribe/unsubscribe to other lists. Hope this clears up how OneList mailing lists work. Cheryl Jackson Macmillan Publishing ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Cindex "Users Discussion Group" Author: "M. Jessie Barczak" at internet Date: 3/31/99 12:59 PM Not long ago someone on this list "suggested" he would like to start a Cindex Users Discussion Group. Like a fool, I responded and got a reply back to join something called OneList. this is a commercial enterprise that "incorporates" various "discussion groups" from Soup to Nutz. Nutz is right. I subscribed only to find that I had to navigate through the OneList crud. An acquaintance of mine has started a similar list through a similar venue. It is OK but you have to put up with a lot of advertising and noise on your computer screen. I admit, I haven't gotten any emails on the Cindex "discussion group" yet. On my friend's list, whenever you access the discussion group your browser is automatically sent to that website and it remains on the page in a frame even when you change URLs. If this happens with OneList, at least you have been warned. I wonder if the "proprietor" of this Cindex "discussion group" works for OneList and is trying to enlist subscribers for a bonus? I am only speculating .. User beware! MJB Washington, DC ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 12:40:57 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: Cindex "Users Discussion Group" On 3/31/1999 11:59 AM M. Jessie Barczak wrote (in part): >Not long ago someone on this list "suggested" he would like to start a >Cindex Users Discussion Group. Like a fool, I responded and got a reply >back to join something called OneList. this is a commercial enterprise >that "incorporates" various "discussion groups" from Soup to Nutz. > >Nutz is right. I subscribed only to find that I had to navigate through >the OneList crud. An acquaintance of mine has started a similar list >through a similar venue. It is OK but you have to put up with a lot of >advertising and noise on your computer screen. > >I admit, I haven't gotten any emails on the Cindex "discussion group" yet. >On my friend's list, whenever you access the discussion group your browser >is automatically sent to that website and it remains on the page in a frame >even when you change URLs. > >If this happens with OneList, at least you have been warned. > >I wonder if the "proprietor" of this Cindex "discussion group" works for >OneList and is trying to enlist subscribers for a bonus? I am only >speculating .. > >User beware! > >MJB >Washington, DC > I am not an employee of Onelist and I do not get a bonus for signing up members. When I set up the list, I chose the privacy option, i.e., that members names would not be available to the public. Regarding activity on this list, I will admit that it is low thus far. However, I would expect that since I only announced its presence a few hours ago. Cheers, Craig Brown ===================================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing http://www.i1.net/~lastword (314)352-9094 fax: (314)481-9254 ===================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 13:46:36 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Cindex "Users Discussion Group" In-Reply-To: <199903311257.rg4og1.1jp.37kbi3u@mx10.mindspring.com> At 12:59 PM 3/31/99 -0500, you wrote: >Not long ago someone on this list "suggested" he would like to start a >Cindex Users Discussion Group. Like a fool, I responded and got a reply >back to join something called OneList. this is a commercial enterprise >that "incorporates" various "discussion groups" from Soup to Nutz. With all due "respect," you're being a "tad" paranoid on this one. OneList is indeed a "commercial" venture that provides mailing list "services" to any and all. OneList makes "money" by selling ad space, both on its "Web page" and on messages sent through its service. You only see the "ads" on the Web if you browse their "site." Once you subscribe to a mailing "list," you don't need to go to the "site" to participate in the list, you just get e-mail "messages" like the ones you get from "INDEX-L." When you get "messages" from the list, you will see some text "ads" appended at the bottom. They will not "intefere" with your reading the message and you don't even have to "scroll" down to look at them., Dick (trying to figure out why double quotes are so fascinating) Evans ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 13:59:09 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" Subject: Re: Cindex "Users Discussion Group" I have also had trouble with OneList. I have subscribed to several OneList groups, including one SIG, and have not received email from any of them. Does the email show up in my inbox? Do I have to go to the website to get into the discussion group site? I'd love to join the CINDEX group, since I've been a CINDEX user for the past 4 years, but need some information about how it works first. OneList did send me an email telling me that I had successfully subscribed but I heard nothing from anyone else on the lists. Maybe they had all decided it wasn't worth it and unsubscribed! Paula Durbin-Westby dwindex@louisa.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 14:06:09 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" Subject: Re: Large publisher, low rates I think the last time I worked for $1.75 was about ten years ago. I agree with those who say let's don't water down our rates. If you are trying to get started, maybe do a job or two that would look good on your resume, and keep sending out those resumes! My personal low rate is $2.50 and I will only do a $2.50 job if I need to fill a space in my schedule or there are other extenuating circumstances (I can't think of any right now). Paula C.Durbin-Westby dwindex@louisa.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 10:55:49 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Cindex "Users Discussion Group" At 12:59 PM 3/31/1999 -0500, M. Jessie Barczak wrote: >Not long ago someone on this list "suggested" he would like to start a >Cindex Users Discussion Group. Like a fool, I responded and got a reply >back to join something called OneList. this is a commercial enterprise >that "incorporates" various "discussion groups" from Soup to Nutz. > >Nutz is right. I subscribed only to find that I had to navigate through >the OneList crud. An acquaintance of mine has started a similar list >through a similar venue. It is OK but you have to put up with a lot of >advertising and noise on your computer screen. > >I admit, I haven't gotten any emails on the Cindex "discussion group" yet. >On my friend's list, whenever you access the discussion group your browser >is automatically sent to that website and it remains on the page in a frame >even when you change URLs. > >If this happens with OneList, at least you have been warned. > >I wonder if the "proprietor" of this Cindex "discussion group" works for >OneList and is trying to enlist subscribers for a bonus? I am only >speculating .. I belong to several discussion groups that are "owned" or "maintained" by OneList, and have never had any problems with advertising, email spam, etc. The lists just come to me as this one does, ad-free. As I understand it, OneList is the administrator in the sense that it provides the facilities to host newsgroups and/or discussion lists, but the actual owner of the list is the person who deals with daily stuff and makes the rules. When you visit the OneList site, yes, it is commercial. But all I had to do was click on the group I wanted to join, type the necessary information, and I was done. And none of the commericals "followed me home," so to speak. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 12:55:44 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Schroeder Subject: room block alert Rooms are still available at the Crowne Plaza Union Station at the $99 conference rate for the ASI conference in June. This rate is quaranteed through May 11, 1999. Hotel reservations can be made by calling 1-800-CROWNE, or 317-631-2221. Some people have been told that rooms are not available at this rate. If you experience any problems, please contact Sandi Schroeder directly as 847-303-0989 or sanindex@xsite.net. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 14:22:21 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" Subject: Re: gerunds I just finished a technical index that features gerunds as main headings almost exclusively. Initially, I wasn't too happy because I'm of the no-gerunds school of thought. But the authors used gerunds in a way that gave them specific dynamic corporation-changing "action meanings." I tried other nouns but my sense was that they did NOT capture the meaning as well as the gerunds, that index users for this particular book would look for the gerunds rather than another form, and that the authors would be irked, to say the least, if I "improved" upon their terminology. So I bit the bullet. Paula C. Durbin-Westby dwindex@louisa.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 11:31:11 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeri Lee Subject: Re: packager contracts - punt or sign?? In-Reply-To: <199903311107.DAA08597@mx1.eskimo.com> --=====================_28473422==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Punt Jeri At 06:05 AM 3/31/99 -0500, you wrote: >I did a job last year for a packager who, after we agreed on the job, sent >me a P.O. for it with the terms that payment would be in 60 days. (And it >about *was* too!) That alone made me hesitant to do business with them >again. Now they've sent me a six-page contract that seems way over the top. >It's not a negotiated contract in the least since I had no part in drawing >it up, and I'm leaning toward not signing it. In fact there's a clause of >Entire Understanding -- sign the whole thing or forget it. It's a >Washington, DC outfit (a town with too many lawyers perhaps??) and I think >that they have one main client with whom I've done other business with -- >but it's such a large client (many departments/employees) that we probably >aren't working with the same folks. However -- what do you all think of >some of these "mutual promises and covenants?" > >Client Contact (prohibiting me from theirs); Work Made for Hire (protects >*their* intellectual property rights); Confidentiality (who can I tell in >Baltimore that would even care??); Non-Competition (five-yr. ban on me doing >any publication production, including without limitation, designing, >developing, writing, editing, and planning services, either directly or >indirectly... with any of their clients); Compensation (okay/not great but >within "roughly thirty (30) days following receipt of invoice); no >subcontracting -- at least two sections on that; Indemnification; and the >usual stuff about me being an independent contractor and neither party is a >partner or agent of the other. It really covers them for breach of anything >and I'm open to a lawsuit if I go around them in any way. > >I have other customers seeking my indexing services. And it's time for some >marketing so I'll be looking for new ones. This packager found me, I never >found them. What say you, collective wisdom? Sign? or punt? > >thanks -- Deborah > >============================== >Deborah E. Patton, Freelance Indexer >Baltimore, MD, USA > --=====================_28473422==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Punt

Jeri

At 06:05 AM 3/31/99 -0500, you wrote:
>I did a job last year for a packager who, after we agreed on the job, sent
>me a P.O. for it with the terms that payment would be in 60 days.  (And it
>about *was* too!)  That alone made me hesitant to do business with them
>again.  Now they've sent me a six-page contract that seems way over the top.
>It's not a negotiated contract in the least since I had no part in drawing
>it up, and I'm leaning toward not signing it.  In fact there's a clause of
>Entire Understanding -- sign the whole thing or forget it.  It's a
>Washington, DC outfit (a town with too many lawyers perhaps??) and I think
>that they have one main client with whom I've done other business with --
>but it's such a large client (many departments/employees) that we probably
>aren't working with the same folks.  However -- what do you all think of
>some of these "mutual promises and covenants?"
>
>Client Contact (prohibiting me from theirs); Work Made for Hire (protects
>*their* intellectual property rights); Confidentiality (who can I tell in
>Baltimore that would even care??); Non-Competition (five-yr. ban on me doing
>any publication production, including without limitation, designing,
>developing, writing, editing, and planning services, either directly or
>indirectly... with any of their clients); Compensation (okay/not great but
>within "roughly thirty (30) days following receipt of invoice); no
>subcontracting -- at least two sections on that; Indemnification; and the
>usual stuff about me being an independent contractor and neither party is a
>partner or agent of the other.  It really covers them for breach of anything
>and I'm open to a lawsuit if I go around them in any way.
>
>I have other customers seeking my indexing services.  And it's time for some
>marketing so I'll be looking for new ones.  This packager found me, I never
>found them.  What say you, collective wisdom?  Sign?  or punt?
>
>thanks -- Deborah
>
>==============================
>Deborah E. Patton, Freelance Indexer
>Baltimore, MD, USA
>

--=====================_28473422==_.ALT-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 11:30:40 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Cindex "Users Discussion Group" At 01:59 PM 3/31/1999 -0500, Paula C. Durbin-Westby wrote: >I have also had trouble with OneList. I have subscribed to several OneList >groups, including one SIG, and have not received email from any of them. >Does the email show up in my inbox? Do I have to go to the website to get >into the discussion group site? I'd love to join the CINDEX group, since >I've been a CINDEX user for the past 4 years, but need some information >about how it works first. OneList did send me an email telling me that I >had successfully subscribed but I heard nothing from anyone else on the >lists. Maybe they had all decided it wasn't worth it and unsubscribed! No, you shouldn't have to go to the website. An operating mailing list or newsgroup shows up in your personal mailbox, just like this one does. Have you tried sending a message to any of the groups you subscribed to? Have they bounced back, or not been replied to? It sounds more to me as if the groups themselves have petered out rather than that OneList has screwed up. I'm getting regular messages from three groups I follow via OneList, with no problems. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 14:31:52 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: Indy hotel - now full As a former hotel/motel employee (hey, when you go to school in Williamsburg, why not?), let me briefly address the comments about how this seems fishy or confusing. When hotels register with central booking agencies (tourist boards or centralized national chain centers) they only give them a certain number of rooms to sell-- they don't give each agency all of their rooms to sell or else they would seriously risk getting overbooked. The only place where all of the registrations are maintained is at the site of the indivdual hotel or motel. What you all have probably run into is that the booking agency you called had run out of its allocated rooms, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the hotel itself is fully booked yet. Whenever you have a question about room availability, you should call the hotel you will be staying at directly and not rely on a centralized agency. I would also strongly recommend that if you have specific requests (handicapped accessibility, room on a particular floor, extra beds, crib, etc.) that you should also call the hotel directly-- these things have a way of getting lost in the translation. Incidentally, you can sometimes get better rates by calling the hotel directly, too. Generally hotels and motels only provide one rate to the central booking agencies, and generally it's their highest rate. One more thing: I personally make a practice of mailing in a security deposit for my first night's stay rather than relying on a credit card to guarantee the room. Trust me, if a hotel finds itself overbooked, it is going to accommodate the guests who have already paid for their rooms before the ones who merely have a credit card guarantee-- they really hate to give cash refunds! :-) Just thought a little insider info would shed some light... I'll try to stay on topic now. :-) -- Sharon W. Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 15:37:11 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hannah Huse Subject: Indy hotel A bit more on Indy hotel.... I usually do call a hotel number directly, even at the cost of a telephone cost to me, for reasons helpfully outlined by Sharon. In my case, it was the hotel that told me they had no rooms available, not at the conference rate or at any other rate. It was the 800 number that finally booked me. I only called the 800 number when the hotel did not answer on two tries. Doesn't fit the normal pattern...and I certainly hope I have a reservation! I called back to check the confirmation number and asked for written confirmation. A little mystery every day........ Hannah ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 13:07:34 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Field Subject: Indexex in User's Guides: Thanks Thanks to all who answered my questions about indexes in user's guides. Turns out, my suspicions that gerund verbs (which, I've learned, are actually nouns) as main entries _are_ acceptable and useful for the user. Thanks again. Karen Field Technical Writer, Editor, Indexer ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 14:11:58 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Back Words Indexing Subject: Re: Cindex "Users Discussion Group" In-Reply-To: <19990331134642.054debfc.in@mail.louisa.net> >I have also had trouble with OneList. I have subscribed to several OneList >groups, including one SIG, and have not received email from any of them. >Does the email show up in my inbox? Do I have to go to the website to get >into the discussion group site? I'd love to join the CINDEX group, since >I've been a CINDEX user for the past 4 years, but need some information >about how it works first. OneList did send me an email telling me that I >had successfully subscribed but I heard nothing from anyone else on the >lists. Maybe they had all decided it wasn't worth it and unsubscribed! Hi Paula - This list just started - there's been one message on it so far. Give it a little more time. Martha BWI ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 17:44:38 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Etheridge, Nancy" Subject: Re: Melissa question From my understanding of the Melissa virus, it uses a Word 97/Word 2000 macro to search your Outlook address book (and any MAPI address books you have access to through a network) and then mails itself to the first 50 names. If you don't have any entries in the address book, it can't go anywhere by email. It can be spread through ordinary file sharing because it is inserted into any Word 97/2000 document created after the virus infected the computer. This happens even if Outlook is not installed on the computer. Most anti-virus software should be able to detect and remove it. For more information, check out CERT at http://www.cert.org/advisories/CA-99-04-Melissa-Macro-Virus.html Nancy Etheridge nancy@nettally.com Robin Hilp wrote: > Somebody wrote: > >In light of the "Melissa Virus" hoopla--I will send > an > >attached Word97 doc upon request (I use Netscape mail > for my homeaccount--so > >all should be well!). > > Today our IS manager said it doesn't matter what mailer > you're *using* -- Melissa will strike if you have > Outlook or Exchange *installed*. Even if you've never > setup or used Outlook or Exchange. > > That's not what I understood from reading the virus > (ok, "worm", if you want to be technical) warnings -- I > thought Melissa looked for addresses specifically in > the Outlook (MS) format? Does anyone understand this > well enough to confirm/explain? Thanks! > === > RolyBear ICQ 1863181 (Robin Hilp) > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 16:50:39 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: Cindex "Users Discussion Group" In-Reply-To: <199903311758.MAA13146@mail4.bellsouth.net> The ASI list is run from OneList and I have no problem with it at all. I think you misunderstand the point of OneList. They get their revenue from the ads they run, just as GeoCities and Tripod do in return for the free Web site space they provide -- and ditto the many free email services. I have no problem with *ANY* of this, any more than I have with advertising on television. Free-to-the-consumer is good! I might add that my wife and I run a couple of family genealogy lists through one of OneList's competitors, which we would never be able to do otherwise, not being affiliated with a corporate or academic owner of a list-server.... Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net ICQ #15741870 http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ THESAURUS (n.): An ancient reptile with an excellent vocabulary. |Nutz is right. I subscribed only to find that I had to navigate through |the OneList crud. An acquaintance of mine has started a similar list |through a similar venue. It is OK but you have to put up with a lot of |advertising and noise on your computer screen. | |I admit, I haven't gotten any emails on the Cindex "discussion group" yet. |On my friend's list, whenever you access the discussion group your browser |is automatically sent to that website and it remains on the page in a frame |even when you change URLs. | |If this happens with OneList, at least you have been warned. | |I wonder if the "proprietor" of this Cindex "discussion group" works for |OneList and is trying to enlist subscribers for a bonus? I am only |speculating .. | |User beware! | |MJB |Washington, DC ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 16:58:57 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: Cindex "Users Discussion Group" In-Reply-To: <199903311915.OAA24851@mail2.bellsouth.net> When you login to OneList for the first time, you give them your email address. Any lists to which you subsequently subscribe go to that address -- assuming anyone posts msgs to the list, of course. Is the address you gave them then the same you're using now? Though if you browse headings of lists at OneList, you'll find there are many -- probably ill-conceived and under-publicized -- that have extremely low traffic. Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net ICQ #15741870 http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ THESAURUS (n.): An ancient reptile with an excellent vocabulary. |I have also had trouble with OneList. I have subscribed to several OneList |groups, including one SIG, and have not received email from any of them. |Does the email show up in my inbox? Do I have to go to the website to get |into the discussion group site? I'd love to join the CINDEX group, since |I've been a CINDEX user for the past 4 years, but need some information |about how it works first. OneList did send me an email telling me that I |had successfully subscribed but I heard nothing from anyone else on the |lists. Maybe they had all decided it wasn't worth it and unsubscribed! | |Paula Durbin-Westby |dwindex@louisa.net