Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9910E" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:38:16 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Wyatt Organization: Keyword Editorial Services Subject: Re: Working from PDF files MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I work from PDF files when I have to. I must say it is very useful for those occasions when you think "Oops - I know I saw that discussed some chapters back - where was it?" Since I am temporarily living outside a big city, it speeds up delivery, and is more certain than courier companies. I have written an article on indexing PDF files for the next issue of the Australian Society of Indexers Newsletter. I'll post the URL on this list when it's published, if anyone's interested. Michael Wyatt Keyword Editorial Services 22 Kendall Street, Surry Hills 2010 Australia Phone 0500 KEYWRD (0500 539 973) Fax (02) 9331 7785 keyword@ozemail.com.au ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith McQuay To: Sent: Thursday, 28 October, 1999 3:30 Subject: Working from PDF files > A while back a client sent me a book in PDF format. Yuk I thought and > immediately had a printout made at the copy shop intending to work from > that. Much to my surprise, after the first 50 pages or so I was reading > more off the screen and didn't touch the paper after page 100. Since then > I've had several more books in PDF and work entirely off-screen, toggling > back and forth between Acrobat and Cindex. PDF has become my preferred way > of working, followed by paper, followed a distant third by embedded indexing > in Quark or Word. I have all the functionality of Cindex plus searching and > text copying capability in Acrobat -- it's like the best of both worlds. > > Do you know if indexing from PDF is common? Is this a beginning trend? (I > hope) > > Keith > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:15:40 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: Dragon Naturally Speaking Our experience here is that trying to use DNS directly in Word is a bad idea. It's slow and cumbersome and, more to the point, the voice files tend to become corrupted after awhile, then you have to reinstall and start from scratch. We dictate into DNS's word processor then copy and paste the whole thing into Word for editing, when necessary. Sounds like that's what a lot of people do with Cindex, too, and the Dragon people are very up front about the fact that you will get the best results if you use their word processor. It's really not a cumbersome work-around. > -----Original Message----- > From: Charles Anderson [SMTP:anderson@the-indexer.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 28, 1999 7:05 PM > To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > Subject: Re: Dragon Naturally Speaking > > 3.52 seems to work quite well for me, although DNS claims 99% accuracy for > 4.0. They also say it works faster within Word 2000 - I do notice 3.52 is > quite slow in that program, but I rarely use DNS with Word anyway. The > upgrade price is only $99, so I'll probably upgrade after the first round > of > bugs are worked out of 4.0. > > Charles R. Anderson > the-indexer.com > PO Box 15642 > Seattle, WA 98115-0642 > Voice: 206-985-8799 > Fax: 206-985-8796 (fax) > Web: http://www.the-indexer.com > E-Mail: anderson@the-indexer.com > > > >Somebody mentioned that they bought Dragon Preferred direct > >from its website > >in order to get the most recent version. Is there any pressing > >need to have > >v. 4.0 (the latest), or would 3.5, for instance, work well? I'd > >be willing > >to sacrifice some small new feature if I could save about 75% on the > > >purchase price. > > Sonsie > sconroy@slonet.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:47:51 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Tindxcasey@AOL.COM Subject: indexer wanted MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Medical products client looking for a professional indexer with experience in electrophysiology, cardiology, antiarrhythmics, defibrillators to assist in creating an index of a compilation of abstracts. Daniel Kantor The Kantor Group, Inc. 420 N. 5th. St., Suite 900 The Ford Centre Minneapolis, MN 55401 Phone: 612/375-0399 Fax: 612/375-0396 email address: dkantor@kantorgroup.com Please respond off list. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:20:32 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: TAHUDOBA@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Web indexing terminology [was: automated vs manual indexing] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > To begin with, I don't know whether the "w" in "Web" or "web", or in > "Web-this" or "web-that", should always be capitalized. -Wired Style- (a style guide for editors and writers of electronic text) uses an upper case W for Web and generally separates it from other words, i.e., Web site. Terri Hudoba Indexers Plus Indexing, Editing, Proofreading tahudoba@aol.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:22:26 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Paul Kish Subject: Re: Working from PDF files In-Reply-To: <199910282232.SAA24711@superaje.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hey Keith, Sounds good. But tell me something. How do you mark up the on-screen pages? Paul ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:36:04 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: Working from PDF files In-Reply-To: <199910282232.SAA24711@superaje.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I've done a couple of books from PDF. The first one I printed and marked up because it was SO technical I just had to sit and think a lot. But the second one, I displayed it on a second computer and indexed it on my main one. I have been doing that with online help files as well lately, especially if it is a product I know and have indexed before. I find the second screen great to work from with two caveats-- a slightly longer depth set of reading glasses is needed, so I can see both clearly, and you have to experiment with putting the monitor so that its little wavelengths don't make the first monitor jumpy. Once I moved it to the right, all was fine. The thought of printing out hundreds of help files now gives me the willies -- this is so much easier. Jan Wright At 06:30 PM 10/28/99 -0400, you wrote: >A while back a client sent me a book in PDF format. Yuk I thought and >immediately had a printout made at the copy shop intending to work from >that. Much to my surprise, after the first 50 pages or so I was reading >more off the screen and didn't touch the paper after page 100. Since then >I've had several more books in PDF and work entirely off-screen, toggling >back and forth between Acrobat and Cindex. PDF has become my preferred way >of working, followed by paper, followed a distant third by embedded indexing >in Quark or Word. I have all the functionality of Cindex plus searching and >text copying capability in Acrobat -- it's like the best of both worlds. > >Do you know if indexing from PDF is common? Is this a beginning trend? (I >hope) > >Keith =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Wright Information Indexing Services http://www.wrightinformation.com Jancw@wrightinformation.com =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:04:00 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "HEALY.SUSAN" Subject: Re: Xeriscape(TM) Comments: To: Lillian Ashworth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain When Florida's Xeriscape landscaping laws became part of the Florida Statutes in 1991, the legislative committee that handled the bill provided our indexers with some support documents to assist us in developing subject index entries for a term we were unfamiliar with. The support documentation indicated that the term Xeriscape was coined and registered as a trademark by a national horitculture and landscape architecture professional organization. Susan Healy Fla. Legislature Division of Statutory Revision ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Xeriscape(TM) Author: "Lillian Ashworth" [SMTP:ashworth@PULLMAN.COM] at HSE-EXCH Date: 10/28/99 2:12 PM Elliot asks: > The city of Denver owns the trademark for a product??? I don't think >that I have ever heard of this before. > According to the catalog _A High Country Garden_ written and published in Santa Fe and which specializes in Xeriscape plants (my copy is from 1996): "Some years back the Denver Water Department coined the word 'Xeriscape', from the Greek word _xeri_ for dry, and applied it to the practice of water conservation through creative gardening." The word appears prominently on most of the catalog pages and is not marked with a trademark symbol. It is in caps, but that has more to do with page design. It is a beautiful and very useful publication. Lillian Ashworth ashworth@pullman.com who finally decided to recreate a longed for English flower garden using plants that mimic flowering habits but are more suitable for the mostly arid climate of eastern Washington State. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:11:53 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Sloan Subject: Re: Web indexing terminology [was: automated vs manual indexing] In-Reply-To: <1999102901132672477@zetnet.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:13 PM 10/28/99 , you wrote: (clip) >> As for "Web page index," I still can't imagine creating an index >for a single web page--if the page is that big, it probably ought to >be broken up into more useable chunks. > >"I dream of things that never were, and ask "why not?" " :-) >(Quoted from memory - apologies if I've got the wording wrong!) > >To be serious, I can accept that indexing one Web page is likely to >occur much less frequently than indexing one or many sites. In fact, >I think we agreed earlier that neither of us was aware of an existing >example. But a couple of thoughts make me wary of excluding the >possibility completely, by not making provision for it at all in our >fledgling vocabulary. > (clip) I think that document indexing might fit in this catagory. I indexed an online book, though it did consist of multiple chapters, it wasn't an index to my whole site either. Those chapters were pretty long so I placed anchors as pointers for the index to avoid having to scroll through the whole chapter. It almost looks like a web site index but it fits better into either document or archive indexing. These would be 2 other areas to consider for adding to our web indexing terms. Linda Kenny Sloan ************************************************************************ Information Universe Lksloan@informationuniverse.com Improving customer service through better information access for aerospace and astronomy publications both online and print. http://informationuniverse.com ************************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:39:41 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: Web indexing terminology [was: automated vs manual indexing] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit TAHUDOBA@AOL.COM wrote: > > > To begin with, I don't know whether the "w" in "Web" or "web", or in > > "Web-this" or "web-that", should always be capitalized. > > -Wired Style- (a style guide for editors and writers of electronic text) uses > an upper case W for Web and generally separates it from other words, i.e., > Web site. I would capitalize "Web" only in a context in which it was important to clarify the distinction between the Worldwide Web and other HTTP-based webs, such as intranets (quite legitmately called web sites, too). --David ============================= David M. Brown - Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ============================= A V A I L A B L E N O W ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ HTML Indexer 3, still the easiest way to create and maintain real back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. Now including options for HTML Help and JavaHelp indexes, too! - ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:59:48 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Keith McQuay Subject: Re: Working from PDF files Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit "How do you mark up the on-screen pages?" I don't. But then I don't on paper either. If you buy the full version of Acrobat you can insert comments. I imagine you can highlight text as well. Keith ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:06:31 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Kay Bowie Subject: Technical Indexer Needed Immediately Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To Technical Indexers: Indexer needed for 500 page technical book immediately. Index must be completed by November 20,1999. Salary is $3.50 a page. Contact Dr. Barbara Bowie at b.bowie@monotype.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:19:16 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: Working from PDF files In-Reply-To: <003201bf2280$4af6a6a0$1e906ccb@michaelw> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:38 PM 10/29/99 -0700, Michael Wyatt wrote: > >I have written an article on indexing PDF files for the next issue of the >Australian Society of Indexers Newsletter. I'll post the URL on this list >when it's published, if anyone's interested. I am, and please do. Thanks. Michael Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 530-272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:03:16 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Jacobs Subject: Re: Bidding for CD-ROM index - No one? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi! There is a huge variation in the type of material that is put on CD-ROM, so that affects the type of indexing. I have not had extensive experience (3 projects), but each was very different. One was a how-to kind of computer "book", another was a collection of historical slides with text and the third was a filmography. The software for each was different -- two were developed on in-house software, the slide collection I did on Cindex as it was more like a back-of-the-book index. One I was working in house, so I did not have to calculate rates, and for the other two I charged by the time required. Since both were sort of experimental, the companies did not have a problem with that. What you get from the publisher to work with depends on the kind of information that is being produced. It is unlikely that you would have to work with the CD-ROM itself as a source for your data. > **************************************************************************** ******* Christine Jacobs cmjacobs@johnabbott.qc.ca Co-Chair Information and Library Technologies Dept. John Abbott College P.O. Box 2000 Ste-Anne-de-Bellevue QC Canada H9X 3L9 (514) 457-6610, loc 470; fax: (514) 457-4730 **************************************************************************** ******* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:05:52 -0400 Reply-To: riomaro@Riofrancos.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Maro Riofrancos Subject: Re: Working from PDF files In-Reply-To: <199910291601.MAA24958@superaje.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I also work with PDF files (all the time), which I create from the original Quark or Pagemaker files for the book (which naturally I get from the publisher). But I use them only to extract RTF files from them, preserving page breaks, which I then open in Word. I use conversion programs that completely automate both of these steps (Quark to PDF and PDF to RTF). Once in Word, I use a custom program that allows me to create an index basically by pointing and clicking on words (and occasionally typing them in) to create index entries in a separate document which I then import into Cindex for sorting and formatting, and from there back to Word to create an index document for the publisher. The main entries I create in Word appear highlighted in the Word document, with any subhead(s) attached to them in distinctly colored text. Page numbers (or section numbers if law books) are automatically detected and added to the index entries. This IS NOT embedded indexing, which is slave work and slower than using good old index cards. There are no menus or toolbars to deal with, and no dialog box drill-down, virtually no typing of text, and no typing of page numbers...ever. I'm just lazy, I guess. -----Original Message----- From: Indexer's Discussion Group [mailto:INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Keith McQuay Sent: Friday, October 29, 1999 12:00 PM To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Subject: Re: Working from PDF files "How do you mark up the on-screen pages?" I don't. But then I don't on paper either. If you buy the full version of Acrobat you can insert comments. I imagine you can highlight text as well. Keith ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:54:11 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Robin Hilp Subject: attachments vs "inline text" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This is by way of a "public service announcement" ... When you send email with an attachment to the list, the attachment shows up for some of us as a couple hundred lines or more of "cw1Cb3ggMjA2IC0gNCBTYW0gSGlsbCBSb2FkDVdvcnRoaW5ndG9u ..." This "ASCII garble" doesn't happen for everyone, but at least for people reading the digest version of the list on some web-based mailers (such as Yahoo, which I'm using) and for both digest and non-digest messages on some other mailers. There are a couple ways to avoid this problem that will work for some people. One is, when you do a "forward" or "reply" or "attach" or "include" in some mailers, your mailer has an option to put the file *contents* as text directly in your message rather than as an attached file. Another way is to simply cut-and-paste from your file or original message into your new message. In any case, you'll have to give up any formatting and any "formal" separation between your message text and your included text. The "ASCII garble" effect happens because the list server or the recipient's mailer encounters an unrecognized control code -- either a format code or an "attachment starts here" code. HtH! RAH __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:35:29 -0400 Reply-To: rohrbach@delanet.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Joanne L. Rohrbach" Subject: Re: Technical Indexer Needed Immediately In-Reply-To: <19991029120631.023681@mail.monotype.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all! I inquired about the subject matter of this text, and the topic is Mathematics. That's not an area I feel I can index adequately. If your indexing background is in the realm of Math, I'm sure Barbara would love to hear from you! Joanne > -----Original Message----- > From: Indexer's Discussion Group > [mailto:INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Barbara Kay Bowie > Sent: Friday, October 29, 1999 1:07 PM > To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > Subject: Technical Indexer Needed Immediately > > > To Technical Indexers: Indexer needed for 500 page technical book > immediately. Index must be completed by November 20,1999. Salary is > $3.50 a page. Contact Dr. Barbara Bowie at b.bowie@monotype.net > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:39:12 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Xeriscape(TM) In-Reply-To: <199910290407.AAA17155@bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" According to the International Trademark Association, trademarks should be capped and used as adjective (and not pluralized or used as a possessive or a verb, whew!), but it's not necessary to use the trademark symbol: "Additional emphasis *can* be given to trademarks by using the word "brand" after the mark . . . and/or by using one of the acceptable symbols that indicate trademark status" (my emphasis). INTA does encourage companies to protect their own trademarks by using the symbols in their packaging. I don't use the trademark symbol in my indexes, nor have I ever been asked to (but would if I were asked). Although the company that owns a trademark has good reason to remind the public of the trademark, I don't think that places obligations on me as an indexer to do that work for them. By now there's probably a Web site for INTA, but I don't know it. I got their media kit about 5 years ago. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My indexer@execpc.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer new Web address to come ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 22:50:31 GMT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Sutherland Subject: Re: Web indexing terminology [was: automated vs manual indexing] The message <4.1.19991029080233.009fb670@popd.informationuniverse.com> from Linda Sloan contains these words: > document or archive indexing. These would be 2 other areas to > consider for adding to our web indexing terms. Would you suggest definitions for those, Linda? -- Linda Sutherland linda.sutherland@zetnet.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:17:46 -0400 Reply-To: Nospam@mymailbox.concentric.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christin Keck Organization: All the time. It's my job. Subject: Re: Technical Indexer Needed Immediately MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Barbara Kay Bowie wrote: > > To Technical Indexers: Indexer needed for 500 page technical book > immediately. Index must be completed by November 20,1999. Salary is > $3.50 a page. Contact Dr. Barbara Bowie at b.bowie@monotype.net Dear Barbara, Can you give me some further information? What is the book about, how technical is it, how dense does the index have to be, etc.? Can you send (or fax) some sample pages? My fax number is (330) 678-7511. Email to shecrab@concentric.net. -- CK, or as they say in Spain, "Yes, what?" VISIT THE WORLD OF WHISLBABE: http://www.geocities.com/soho/square/4033/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:19:08 -0400 Reply-To: shecrab@concentric.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christin Keck Organization: All the time. It's my job. Subject: Re: Technical Indexer Needed Immediately MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear List: Please excuse the reply to Barbara's request to the entire list. Brain fart. -- CK, or as they say in Spain, "Yes, what?" VISIT THE WORLD OF WHISLBABE: http://www.geocities.com/soho/square/4033/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 09:13:42 -0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: : attachments vs "inline text" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robin Hilp wrote: From: Jon & Glenda Subject: Re: web indexing In-Reply-To: <1999102612291072477@zetnet.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To me there are two differences between what we might call local and global web indexes. A local index is usually a 'back-of-book-style' index which gives access to detailed content of a site. A global index gives classified or specific access to websites on a topic, but usually only indexes the main subjects of the site. I would describe a local index as a 'website index' and more specifically as a 'back-of-book style website index'. I usually describe the global sort of index as a 'gateway' or 'directory', focusing mainly on its aim, rather than the fact that it is an index (since it is usually more importantly a classification). There is also document-level web indexing (not quite covered by the 'single HTML file' category as it can include a number of files). This would include an index to, say, a Policy and Procedure Manual, which is part of a website that might also have an index to its whole content (in which there would be an entry for 'policies' and 'procedures' but not detailed indexing for every policy). It would also include indexes to multiple issues of one periodical. I don't like using 'intra' and 'inter' because I always have to stop and think what they mean. Also 'intra' implies some connection with 'Intranets' which is not intended. So I guess my vote would be for: document-level web indexing (for books and periodicals) website indexing subject directory creation Glenda. > > > It's for a site index (what did we > > decide on for that, intraweb index?). > > Don't think we've reached a decision yet - waiting to see if more > ideas appear! People who take the list in digest form may only now be > catching up with the discussion. > > -- > Linda Sutherland > linda.sutherland@zetnet.co.uk > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 19:36:08 +1000 Reply-To: diagonal@hermes.net.au Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jon & Glenda Subject: Re: Machine-aided indexing In-Reply-To: <9910289411.AA941117299@mailgateway.gao.gov> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can't recall offhand which ones do this, but you will find it in the NFAIS publication Computer Support to Indexing. If you have had no other responses you could try ringing NFAIS (National Federation of Abstracting and Information Services, I think, in the US) and they could send you in the right direction. Glenda. > Good morning indexers -- > > Most of us have agreed that totally automated indexing is a bad > thing. But does > anybody out there use machine-*aided* indexing for a > bibliographic database? In > machine-aided indexing the computer identifies words in a > document that are > likely to be indexable, then returns a list of authorized subject > terms from a > controlled vocabulary. A human indexer accepts or rejects > candidates from the > list. The human can also add terms not suggested by the > computer. I understand > this is the way _Chemical Abstracts_ is done. (It probably > wouldn't work for > back-of-the-book indexing.) Does anybody have any experience > with this? If so, > what software do you use and what do you think of it? Or is there a more > appropriate list for this question? > > Ruth > laninghamr.oimc@gao.gov > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 09:55:19 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dan Connolly Subject: Web Indexing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I stumbled on this paper this morning. Indexing the Web: An Overview of Current and Proposed Approaches http://www.slis.ualberta.ca/598/heather/hmindex.htm Dan ================================ Daniel A. Connolly mailto:connolly@neca.com Word For Word Indexing Services http://www.wfwIndex.necaweb.com Woodstock, CT, USA ================================ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 10:24:24 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Kay Bowie Subject: Needed Indexer for Technical Book Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Indexer Need Immediately for 500 page technical book. Completion date is November 20, 1999. Salary is $3.50 per page. This ad appeared yesterday but there was a problem with our e-mail systems. If you responded to the ad yesterday, please resubmit resumes or interest to drbowie@aol.com. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 07:38:21 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Sloan Subject: Re: Web indexing terminology [was: automated vs manual indexing] In-Reply-To: <1999102922503172477@zetnet.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:50 PM 10/29/99 , you wrote: >The message <4.1.19991029080233.009fb670@popd.informationuniverse.com> > from Linda Sloan contains these words: > > >> document or archive indexing. These would be 2 other areas to >> consider for adding to our web indexing terms. > >Would you suggest definitions for those, Linda? > I would suggest leaving them about as is. Document indexing is about the same whether in print or on the Web. So is archive indexing. In a number of cases, the same tools are used for both. Using the same terms from the print world makes an easier transition to the online world here as it is often businesses that are involved in this. Linda Kenny Sloan ************************************************************************ Information Universe Lksloan@informationuniverse.com Improving customer service through better information access for aerospace and astronomy publications both online and print. http://informationuniverse.com ************************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 19:06:15 GMT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Sutherland Subject: Re: web indexing The message <000301bf22ba$30d83380$8fcf23cb@pentium> from Jon & Glenda contains these words: > To me there are two differences between what we might call local and global > web indexes. A local index is usually a 'back-of-book-style' index which > gives access to detailed content of a site. A global index gives classified > or specific access to websites on a topic, but usually only indexes the main > subjects of the site. Yes - my librarian-schooled brain tends to think of the "global" variety as the Web equivalent of a classified catalogue or subject bibliography rather than an index. But what seems to be happening, in the context of the Web, is that two traditional uses of the word "indexing" are to some extent being merged together. There's the librarians' usage, which normally implies indexing at a level sufficient only to differentiate between "containers" of information. And there's the book-indexers' usage, which involves much more exhaustive analysis, but most often is restricted to the content of one "container". Should we accept that merging, I wonder? I don't mean that we're going to be able to change everyone else's usage, but for our own purposes in discussions here, would it be more helpful to restrict "indexing" to the "local" or "single-site" variant, and find some other term for the "global" or "multiple-site" one? > I would describe a local index as a 'website index' To me, there's a touch of ambiguity about that. It could mean "an index to one website", but it could also be interpreted as "an index of websites", by analogy with, for example, "name index" = "index of names". -- Linda Sutherland linda.sutherland@zetnet.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 14:07:12 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Max Dalrymple Subject: Re: Xeriscape(TM) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Index Discussion List: I replied to one question off list and I should have replied on list: The word Xeriscape(TM) is a trademark, owned by the City of Denver. Their website at http://www.xeriscape.org/ has a navigator labeled trademark. Clicking on it will tell you about how to get permission to use the word. For those who have questioned the "product" marketed by Denver, it is their water conservation dry landscaping program. Denver appears most interested in keeping nurseries and yard and garden shops from marketing "Xeriscape(TM)" plant products. I thank everyone who responded to my question. I share the concern of the person who said that Xeriscape(TM) is falling into public usage. I want to thank the indexer who called her publisher to suggest the correct usage. Special thanks to the person who reminded me to type (TM) next to the word without a space. I used the word in my first article as I think most people currently do. Until I hear Denver has relinquished its trademark, which is unlikely, I will be reminding people of it by printing (TM) after every use of the word. I've started a poll, which will be up at my site until November 5, on what people think should be the policy on usage of the word. If you have a moment, please stop by and share your opinion! I will be sending the results of that poll and the reactions of the Indexer's Discussion List to the City of Denver, as well as my readers. Thanks again! http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/5234 Max Xeriscape(TM) editor at suite101.com -----Original Message----- From: Lillian Ashworth To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Date: Thursday, October 28, 1999 12:24 PM Subject: Re: Xeriscape(TM) >Elliot asks: > >> The city of Denver owns the trademark for a product??? I don't think >>that I have ever heard of this before. >> > >According to the catalog _A High Country Garden_ written and published in >Santa Fe and which specializes in Xeriscape plants (my copy is from 1996): > >"Some years back the Denver Water Department coined the word 'Xeriscape', >from the Greek word _xeri_ for dry, and applied it to the practice of water >conservation through creative gardening." > >The word appears prominently on most of the catalog pages and is not marked >with a trademark symbol. It is in caps, but that has more to do with page >design. > >It is a beautiful and very useful publication. > >Lillian Ashworth >ashworth@pullman.com > >who finally decided to recreate a longed for English flower garden using >plants that mimic flowering habits but are more suitable for the mostly arid >climate of eastern Washington State. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 05:35:28 -0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Griffiths Subject: Re: Introduction and Questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Melissa, You ask about courses. I gather there have been problems with the USDA course. Here in the UK there is a very, very good course, run by Ann Hall, The Lodge, Sidmount Avenue, Moffat, DG10 9BS, Scotland Tel: 01683 220440, e-mail 101233.2664@compuserve.com. She'll either do the course by correspondence, or intensive, face-to-face. e-mail me if you want more details. I'm coming off the list. Ann -----Original Message----- From: Melissa Moore <55742@PEACHNET.CAMPUSCWIX.NET> To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Date: 28 October 1999 10:56 Subject: Introduction and Questions >Hi. My name is Melissa. I am a recently retired librarian looking to >enter the field of freelance indexing. I truly enjoy this work and have a >couple of questions: > >1. What organizations do you advise me to join besides ASI? >2. How do you feel the field looks for new indexers, meaning the amount of >work available? >3. Do you recommend the course offered by USDA? >4. This is the hard question. How do you find clients? > >My background is varied. I hold a B.A. in English. My library experience >mostly revolves around cataloging items in medicine and computer science. > > >Thank you. >Melissa Moore > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 03:38:28 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Melissa Moore Subject: Re: Introduction and Questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dear Ann: Thank you for responding to my message. I would be very interested in receiving more information about Ann Hall's course(s). Regards, Melissa >From: Ann Griffiths >Reply-To: "Indexer's Discussion Group" >To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU >Subject: Re: Introduction and Questions >Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 05:35:28 -0000 > >Hi, Melissa, > >You ask about courses. I gather there have been problems with the USDA >course. Here in the UK there is a very, very good course, run by Ann Hall, >The Lodge, Sidmount Avenue, Moffat, DG10 9BS, Scotland Tel: 01683 220440, >e-mail 101233.2664@compuserve.com. She'll either do the course by >correspondence, or intensive, face-to-face. e-mail me if you want more >details. > >I'm coming off the list. > >Ann > >-----Original Message----- >From: Melissa Moore <55742@PEACHNET.CAMPUSCWIX.NET> >To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU >Date: 28 October 1999 10:56 >Subject: Introduction and Questions > > > >Hi. My name is Melissa. I am a recently retired librarian looking to > >enter the field of freelance indexing. I truly enjoy this work and have >a > >couple of questions: > > > >1. What organizations do you advise me to join besides ASI? > >2. How do you feel the field looks for new indexers, meaning the amount >of > >work available? > >3. Do you recommend the course offered by USDA? > >4. This is the hard question. How do you find clients? > > > >My background is varied. I hold a B.A. in English. My library >experience > >mostly revolves around cataloging items in medicine and computer science. > > > > > >Thank you. > >Melissa Moore > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 03:45:54 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Melissa Moore Subject: Re: Web Indexing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dan, this looks very helpful. Thanks. Melissa >From: Dan Connolly >Reply-To: "Indexer's Discussion Group" >To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU >Subject: Web Indexing >Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 09:55:19 -0400 > >I stumbled on this paper this morning. > >Indexing the Web: An Overview of Current and Proposed Approaches >http://www.slis.ualberta.ca/598/heather/hmindex.htm > >Dan > >================================ >Daniel A. Connolly >mailto:connolly@neca.com >Word For Word Indexing Services >http://www.wfwIndex.necaweb.com >Woodstock, CT, USA >================================ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 07:34:28 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Indexlady@AOL.COM Subject: Email Name Confusion Comments: To: indexstudents@onelist.com, ASI-L@onelist.com Comments: cc: indexlady@hotmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings All! I just wanted to give you a heads up warning about email name confusion. Since it has caused confusion on the list, I'm sure it will also cause confusion out in business. We now have 2 INDEXLADY's on the various indexing listservs. Dawn Spencer is indexlady@aol.com Melissa Moore is indexlady@hotmail.com I hope this clears up any further confusion. Dawn Spencer Techni-Dexes 168 Jones Street Rockwood, TN 37854 Tel & Fax: (423) 354-9601 --------------- Coordinator of the Tennessee Regional Group of the American Society of Indexers tennwords@aol.com http://members.aol.com/tennwords/ http://www.asindexing.org/ --------------- Author of the Indexing topic at Suite 101 http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/indexing ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 08:00:17 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Willa MacAllen Subject: Offtopic poem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Good morning all: The following came from another list this morning: >Ode To My Spell Checker > >Eye halve a spelling checker >It came with my pea sea >It plainly marques four my revue >Miss steaks eye kin knot sea > >Eye strike a key and type a word >And weight four it two say >Weather eye am wrong oar write >It shows me strait a weigh > >eye strike a key and type a word >and weight four it two say >weather eye am wrong oar write >it shows me strait a weigh > >As soon as a mist ache is maid >It nose bee fore two long >And eye can put the error rite >Its rare lea ever wrong. > >as soon as a mist ache is maid >it nose bee fore two long >and eye can put the error rite >its rare lea ever wrong > >Eye have run this poem threw it >I am shore your pleased two no >Its letter perfect awl the weigh >My chequer tolled me sew. > >I have run this poem threw it >I am shore your pleased two no >its letter perfect awl the weigh >my checker tolled me sew. > >~author unknown~ Willa MacAllen Information Organizer MacAllen's Information Services Boston ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 15:31:51 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: RESPONSES (long): cross-references Comments: To: CindexUsers , Index-NW post , SKYIndexUsers , Web Indexers' Mailing List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to all of you who took time to reply! As a reminder, here's the original question: > ...I'm seeking information from all users of all indexing tools: > Cindex, Macrex, Sky Index, typewriters, 3x5 cards, and anything > I've overlooked. ;) > > Specifically, I'd like to hear how each of you goes about > cross-referencing: > * Create index entries, then go back and create cross- > references, or create cross-references along with "regular" > index entries? > * Keep a list of cross-references separate from "regular" index > entries, or view them all in a single merged list? > > I'm not so much interested in arguing about the "right way" and > the "wrong way" as in hearing how you *think* about cross- > references and the way you use your chosen tools to create them. And here's a smattering of your answers: =================================================================== > I create cross-references along with "regular" index entries and > review and edit them like any other entry. > I tend to add the cross references as I'm indexing. I might add a > cross-reference or two while doing the final edit, but most of the > time they are already in place by that time. > Create cross-references along with "regular" index entries... > then...create [more] index entries, then go back and create > cross-references. > I try to create cross-references as I go, which means as they > occur to me. Once I get to the editing stage, I do usually think > of a few I should have added. I definitely keep cross-references > in the "regular" index... I need to be able to see them as I go. > It never even occurred to me that there would be a method to "See" > or "See also." I just toss them in when I recognize the need for > them. > I cross-reference as I enter. Then...during the editing phase > [I put] all the cross-references at the end. I then put them in > alphabetical order and check them for completeness. > I am able to do the cross-referencing as I go along, which I > prefer. In general, it is easier for me to think an entry through > in all its manifestations while I am focused on that term or > concept, rather than waiting until later in a separate pass... > When I enter an entry and think there will be a [cross-reference] > I post it [immediately]. > I write some cross-references almost immediately when I begin > picking out terms; I write some as synonyms appear in the text; > and I write some when I am editing the index after creating > entries. > It's a combination process for me. Some are clear as day. > Others don't hit me until mid-way through. Others don't occur > until I group...like things. > I create my cross-references as I create the initial entry... > Once [the entry and cross-reference are] created, I no longer have > to worry about whether an entry has or needs a cross-reference. > I create references as I go, but they often change at the end. > ...When I edit I choose which one to use, and tidy it all up. > It doesn't worry me to have the mess as I work; it is most > important to me to get all my ideas down. I also find that if I > don't decide on one version at the beginning, but just type what > occurs to me each time, I get a better idea of which to choose as > the term to use. =================================================================== Thanks again! --David ============================= David M. Brown - Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ============================= A V A I L A B L E N O W ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ HTML Indexer 3, still the easiest way to create and maintain real back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. Now including options for HTML Help and JavaHelp indexes, too! - ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 08:19:52 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: quaker1 Subject: Re: Needed Indexer for Technical Book MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------EAC2A547E754D356E0A8C48A" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------EAC2A547E754D356E0A8C48A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I responded to this ad yesterday. Here is my resume again Diana Witt (dlwitt@concentric.net) 612-377-5394 Copy of original cover message: Dear Dr. Bowie: I received notice of your need for a technical indexer. I am an experienced technical indexer with many years experience with John Wiley, American Society of Civil Engineers, American Welding Society, Scientific American, and several small academic and technical presses. I enclose a resume as a Word attachment. I could deliver the index to you by the November 20 deadline. I look forward to hearing from you soon. Diana Witt 612-377-5394 dlwitt@concentric.net Barbara Kay Bowie wrote: > Indexer Need Immediately for 500 page technical book. Completion date is > November 20, 1999. Salary is $3.50 per page. > > This ad appeared yesterday but there was a problem with our e-mail > systems. 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//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////8BAP7/AwoAAP////8GCQIA AAAAAMAAAAAAAABGGAAAAE1pY3Jvc29mdCBXb3JkIERvY3VtZW50AAoAAABNU1dvcmREb2MA EAAAAFdvcmQuRG9jdW1lbnQuOAD0ObJxAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAA== --------------EAC2A547E754D356E0A8C48A-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 23:04:47 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Do you speak Chinese? In-Reply-To: <199911010327.WAA03212@bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you speak even a smattering of Chinese, any dialect that would be spoken in Nanjing Province, P.R. China, and plan to attend the Albuquerque confernce, please contact me offline. Dick