Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9909A" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 23:57:35 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Help with Asian Names Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:52 AM 9/1/99 +1000, Sandra Henderson wrote: >The URL in the message below is incorrect. The National Library of >Australia is online at http://www.nla.gov.au and the catalogue can be found >at http://www.nla.gov.au/webpac/ >(I'm sure Ralph is a regular user, and it was just one of those cases of the >fingers working a little independently of the brain, which happens to all of >us sometimes!) Thanks to you both for the URL. That will be invaluable. Sonsie sconroy@slonet.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:04:31 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: The Indexer Zone: Episode 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rolling on the floor, Bob! Where would we be without you? But how about this? (Not as funny, but...) << NK. Yes. Out of twenty-five. If the TOC is correct, 475 pages are missing. NK. Oh. The packager? I see. When do you think I will receive the missing pages? Tomorrow? Oh, just the first 120 pages tomorrow. And the rest by next Thursday. Ahh..... NK. Okay. Now, looking at my calendar I see that this means the deadline for my receipt of pages has slipped by three weeks. You understand that your job has now landed on top of another job. When I have all of the pages, I'll call you and let you know when I can finish it. Of course, as I always do, I'll get it done for you as fast as possible! But you understand that it wouldn't be fair to other clients not to finish their jobs on time...Yes. So the official deadline, of course, needs to be three weeks later...that looks like the 23rd to me. I'll try my best to get it to you sooner! And of course you'll let me know if the schedule changes again. Great! It's so nice working with clients like you who don't expect me to finish the index in one day just because they were late!....Yes, some people actually demand that!....No, I'm not kidding....Yes, you're right, they really don't care about the quality of the index...Well, I do appreciate you. Thanks! It really can go like this.... Do Mi Stauber ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:48:17 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Elaine R. Firestone" Subject: Re: Editors changing our index Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" As an editor who does her own indexing, I have a few things to say about this topic. Ardith said, "I am underwhelmed by this seemingly ignorant editing. Much thought went into this index to make it a more or less flowing work for the sake of the reader." If, in fact, everything went according to how Ardith explained it, and I'm not saying it didn't, then I agree with Ardith in the "ignorant editing" comment. If she had been told in the beginning what *not* to index, then her work would have gone faster, albeit she'd be biting her tongue with everything she figured should be in there but couldn't be. One thing about some editors, and I've been the victim of this myself, is that some of them absolutely cannot leave any kind of work unmarked, no matter how good or perfect it is to begin with. Some of it is an ego thing, and some of it is insecurity/job nerves talking in the form of "my boss is going to review this and I have to show that I really worked on it". If it's ego, then you're stuck with grinning and bearing it, assuming you want to continue working for these folks (bottom-line-ism, as someone [Dan?] was so apt in putting it). If it's insecurity/job nerves talking, then you have to pity the poor sap and hope he/she gets some guts real soon. These aren't solutions... just another perspective. Hope it helped. Elaine Elaine R. Firestone, ELS elaine@seawifs.gsfc.nasa.gov ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:58:34 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Psvenndex@AOL.COM Subject: Industrial Pollution index help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good Afternoon, I am working on a text about industrial pollution and plant response. It has 21 different articles (and authors) on this topic. The authors sent marked up pages with corrections etc. and several included highlighting for the index. I also receive the corrected "clean pages". Of those so highlighted they marked plant names, when common names (soybean) was given it was not marked. But most chapters were not highlighted for the index. I queried the editor and she felt that if they were marked they better go in. To me, and I am no expert in this field, I wonder if they will be of any use. I mean will the readers look up Picris hieraciodes ? Most of the time the plants are mentioned as results to studies or how they react to ozone etc.; and usually there is a list of them. The preface refers to how the objective of the book is to understand the link between environ. and plant and to show where future research needs to go. I am very near to finishing the book but keep going back and forth about keeping these entries. Space is usually not a concern for this pub. Thanks for any input. Pamela Venneman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:26:43 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Iris B. Ailin-Pyzik" Subject: Re: Industrial Pollution index help Comments: To: Psvenndex@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bad news - I think you need to keep these entries. As a chemist, I know that when looking at books in reference to my own work, the index is a major factor in finding information on a particular compound or mineral or element. This is analogous to a biologist working on a PARTICULAR plant, and wanting to find relevant information. You probably also need to cross-reference from a subheading for the individual species or double post. You might also consider a general "see also specific species". The key here is that hopefully, some species are more resistant than others, and that should be a subject of study. Have fun. Iris Psvenndex@aol.com wrote: > > Good Afternoon, > I am working on a text about industrial pollution and plant response. It has > 21 different articles (and authors) on this topic. The authors sent marked > up pages with corrections etc. and several included highlighting for the > index. I also receive the corrected "clean pages". Of those so highlighted > they marked plant names, when common names (soybean) was given it was not > marked. But most chapters were not highlighted for the index. > I queried the editor and she felt that if they were marked they better go > in. To me, and I am no expert in this field, I wonder if they will be of any > use. I mean will the readers look up Picris hieraciodes ? Most of the time > the plants are mentioned as results to studies or how they react to ozone > etc.; and usually there is a list of them. The preface refers to how the > objective of the book is to understand the link between environ. and plant > and to show where future research needs to go. > I am very near to finishing the book but keep going back and forth about > keeping these entries. Space is usually not a concern for this pub. > Thanks for any input. > Pamela Venneman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:29:47 -0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: Industrial Pollution index help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Why don't you simply double post both the scientific and the common names of the plants? That way readers will be able to look up plant names under either. If space is not a problem double posting seems like a reasonable solution. That way you have made the authors happy and the index will serve both the expert and the novice readers. And, in any case, both scientific and common plant names should be listed in the index. By the way, I would probably index the plant names as follows: common name (scientific name), 11 scientific name (common name), 11 That way it would be instantly clear to readers that both entries are referring to the same plant and not to two different plants. And, unless there is extensive discussion requiring numerous subentries, I would double post these entries rather then use cross references. It can be irritating to a reader to be sent to another entry which only contains one or maybe two page references. Best, Sylvia Coates Best, Sylvia Coates -----Original Message----- From: Psvenndex@AOL.COM To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Date: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 5:08 PM Subject: Industrial Pollution index help >Good Afternoon, >I am working on a text about industrial pollution and plant response. It has >21 different articles (and authors) on this topic. The authors sent marked >up pages with corrections etc. and several included highlighting for the >index. I also receive the corrected "clean pages". Of those so highlighted >they marked plant names, when common names (soybean) was given it was not >marked. But most chapters were not highlighted for the index. > I queried the editor and she felt that if they were marked they better go >in. To me, and I am no expert in this field, I wonder if they will be of any >use. I mean will the readers look up Picris hieraciodes ? Most of the time >the plants are mentioned as results to studies or how they react to ozone >etc.; and usually there is a list of them. The preface refers to how the >objective of the book is to understand the link between environ. and plant >and to show where future research needs to go. > I am very near to finishing the book but keep going back and forth about >keeping these entries. Space is usually not a concern for this pub. >Thanks for any input. >Pamela Venneman > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:11:18 -0700 Reply-To: Homer Ellison Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Homer Ellison Subject: Writer's Market MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you are interested in a very inexpensive (but new) copy of the 1999 Writer's Market, I am currently selling it through Amazon.com Auctions. You can find the listing and place your bid here: http://auctions.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/auction-glance/Y04X5283469X6832172 /qid=936205932/sr=1-1/002-2097586-3507814 I have also included a description, for those of you who aren't yet familiar with Writer's Market. The auction ends this evening, so you will have to respond today if you're interested. Regards, Homer ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:06:19 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" Subject: Remembering what I indexed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I index so many books that I often can't recall just what it was I was reading several months ago. I've always wanted to write a paragraph about the book, or do a book report, something to remind me of all the stuff I've read. When I throw out the page proofs (sometimes after a year or so: I love to hoard paper, never know when that editor might call me back eight months down the line...) I always regret it since I don't usually have a copy of the book. I've started to staple together the table of contents and a few pages from the introduction (more if I like the book) for each project and am saving them all in a file to read over sometimes when I feel the urge to jog my memory. Just thought I'd pass the idea along for those of you who can't remember every project they've ever indexed. I wish I'd done this all along. I just spent twenty minutes or so reading through some of them and am surprised at how much of the book I remember if I have a few pages to prompt my slow memory. It was FUN! :) Paula Durbin-Westby dwindex@louisa.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:41:03 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John Posada Subject: Re: Industrial Pollution index help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii My opinion...if space is not a concern or issue, index-away! Again, my opinion...the more directions a user can use to get to the information they are looking for...what-the-harm. ESPECIALY if you arer being paid by the entry. :-) If space is not an issue, and the publisher wants it that detailed, it seems that the only thing you are using to base it on is personal opinion. ... > preface refers to how the > objective of the book is to understand the link > between environ. and plant > and to show where future research needs to go. > I am very near to finishing the book but keep going > back and forth about > keeping these entries. Space is usually not a > concern for this pub. > Thanks for any input. > Pamela Venneman > === John Posada, Merck Research Laboratories Sr Technical Writer, WinHelp and html (work) john_posada@merck.com - 732-594-0873 (pers) jposada01@yahoo.com - 732-291-7811 "The art of creating software that is usable by individuals is a communication skill. It is not a programming skill." --Bill Atkinson, creator of MacPaint and HyperCard __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:41:48 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diane Brenner Subject: Re: Industrial Pollution index help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think it depends on the audience. If this book is intended for use by researchers or professionals in the field, then I'd definitely include the scientific names, especially if space isn't a concern. Diane www.dianebrenner.com Psvenndex@AOL.COM wrote: > Good Afternoon, > I am working on a text about industrial pollution and plant response. It has > 21 different articles (and authors) on this topic. The authors sent marked > up pages with corrections etc. and several included highlighting for the > index. I also receive the corrected "clean pages". Of those so highlighted > they marked plant names, when common names (soybean) was given it was not > marked. But most chapters were not highlighted for the index. > I queried the editor and she felt that if they were marked they better go > in. To me, and I am no expert in this field, I wonder if they will be of any > use. I mean will the readers look up Picris hieraciodes ? Most of the time > the plants are mentioned as results to studies or how they react to ozone > etc.; and usually there is a list of them. The preface refers to how the > objective of the book is to understand the link between environ. and plant > and to show where future research needs to go. > I am very near to finishing the book but keep going back and forth about > keeping these entries. Space is usually not a concern for this pub. > Thanks for any input. > Pamela Venneman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:17:52 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Industrial Pollution index help In-Reply-To: <199909011733.NAA02501@bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > By the way, I would probably index the plant names as follows: > > common name (scientific name), 11 > scientific name (common name), 11 FWIW, it's a trivial task in Cindex to make all your initial entries in one format then globally double post under the other form at the end. If you've got hundreds of entries, it's a real time saver. You may want to practice on a copy of your file until you get the hang of it. Let's say you enter everything as "common name (scientific name)" When data entry is done, do this: FIND/FIELD=1/PATTERN )$ (Find all records wherein field 1 ends in a right paren. This may include some items that end in right parens but are not plant names. You may have to issue a couple more FIND commands to remove those.) DUPLICATE (Duplicate all the records in the view. You now have two copies of all the "common name (scientific name)" records. One copy is in the current view, one copy is in the main Cindex file. SUBSTITUTE/FIELD=1/PATTERN {?*} {(?*)} (Substitute for the subpatterns "any string of any characters (subpattern 1)" followed by "parentheses containing any string of characters (subpattern 2)".) When Cindex asks for the substitution values, respond: \2 (\1) This flips the two subpatterns, enclosing the first subpattern "common name" in parentheses and making the second subpattern ("scientific name") the new primary entry. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:50:47 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Beti Spangel Subject: Working With Authors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain As a newbie, and at the risk of sounding like a complete idiot, I was wondering exactly "working with the author" consists of. Do they sit at your elbow and watch your every pencil mark? Do they review every chapter that you index? Do they phone you nightly for updates? Exactly what kind of input do they make that most folks out there seem to cringe at the idea of working with them? I found the thread about working with authors and whether or not to sign a contract very interesting, but would like to know exactly what kind of experiences people are referring to. Beti Spangel Spread the Word Indexing spreadword@excite.com ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:55:56 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J. Naomi Linzer" Subject: reference books deals Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" FYI-- Just found an advert in a recent issue of ARCHEOLOGY offering The Cambridge Biographical Encyclopedia for $7.50, and QPB has Roget's Super Thesaurus and M-W's Geographical Dictionary in their intro offer for new memebers @ $1.00 and $2.00 respectively, plus postage. Naomi PS Please excuse any duplicate postings you may receive. *****************************************************************************J. J. Naomi Linzer Indexing Services POB 1341 459 Redway Drive Redway, CA 95560 (707) 923-4361 jnlinzer@saber.net ****************************************************************************** http://www.asindexing.org <-- American Society of Indexers website. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:09:11 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Industrial Pollution index help In-Reply-To: <199909011833.OAA01246@bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > When data entry is done, do this: > > FIND/FIELD=1/PATTERN )$ Well, the special characters are mis-translated by my mail reader. If anyone wants to know how to do this, mail me off line and I'll send you an ASCII attachment. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:30:29 -0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: Working With Authors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Beti, I can only refer to my own experience in working with authors but this is what usually happens. You are contacted by the author, discuss the project and agree on the specifications and arrange for the delivery of page proofs. Sometimes the author will give you a list of terms or concepts they would like to see in the index. This list should only act as guide and not the infamous "index terms which only need page references added." After you have finished up the index you then send it off to the author. Often I have authors who say "Great, I'll send you the check." Equally often I'll have authors send me a list of corrections or terms they would like added to the index. Usually this list is pretty small and it typically takes less than an hour to finish up the final index version. Now, the above scenario isn't the situation that makes most indexers cringe. What does make indexers cringe is to have authors who insist on spending hours (literally hours) on the phone with you. Who hound you daily about your "progress." Who have a seemingly endless list of corrections to the index. Who are unreasonable and rude and insist on teaching you how to properly index. Fortunately, these kind of authors are the exception rather than the rule. But there are enough of these characters that most indexers have had at least one experience with them. And then there is the occasional oddball author. I once had the scare of my life one Saturday evening when an author rang my doorbell and invited himself in for awhile. My husband had gone out to get a video for the evening and I was alone. The author turned out to be harmless and just "wanted to talk" (really to complain about how hard it is to self publish) but it shook me up. (And yes, I really was pretty dumb to let him in the door. Not one of my smarter moves but I though it was one of my kids who had forgotten their key.) On the other hand, one of my most pleasant indexing experiences was working directly with an author. I actually went to his home and we worked together on the index and took turns holding his new baby girl. He was an absolute delight to work with and I have never before or since worked with an author in such a way. This was an exceptional situation in that the author had taken the trouble to educate himself about indexing (even having read several books on the subject), was open to learning, and had interesting contributions to make. It's not likely that I'll ever have another similar experience working so closely with an author. Most of the time working with an author, at least for me, is as described in my first paragraph. But I imagine that there are as many difference experiences as there are indexers and authors. And your question was a perfectly reasonable one. When in doubt ask! Best, Sylvia Coates -----Original Message----- From: Beti Spangel To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Date: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 7:03 PM Subject: Working With Authors >As a newbie, and at the risk of sounding like a complete idiot, I was >wondering exactly "working with the author" consists of. Do they sit at >your elbow and watch your every pencil mark? Do they review every chapter >that you index? Do they phone you nightly for updates? Exactly what kind of >input do they make that most folks out there seem to cringe at the idea of >working with them? I found the thread about working with authors and >whether or not to sign a contract very interesting, but would like to know >exactly what kind of experiences people are referring to. > >Beti Spangel >Spread the Word Indexing >spreadword@excite.com > > > > >________________________________________________________________ >Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com >Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:38:56 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: KMArrigoni@AOL.COM Subject: Cross-platform file problems/FrameMaker MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I have a potential new client that wants me to do an embedded Frame index for them. Since they use PCs and I use Macs, I thought that it would be a good idea to do a test file first. They sent me a file and it came across as generic looking, but I was able to open it with the File > Open command. I added some embedded entries and sent it back to them. Well, they couldn't open it on their end. They get an "Unknown File Type" dialog box. We've tried all kinds of things: selecting all of the appropriate cross-platform options in Preferences, sending it as a zipped file, etc., but they still can't open it. Can you think of anything else I can try? By the way, they are using version 5.5.6 and I'm using 5.5.3--I don't know if that makes a difference or not. I've ordered the 5.5.6 upgrade and should receive it by the end of the week. It's not an e-mail problem because I sent them a Word file and they were able to open it with no problems. Also, I'm thinking of buying the PC version of Frame in the future (since I could use it on my PC laptop, which I just bought). Is it a lot different than the Mac version?? Thanks in advance for any suggestions. Karin P.S. I get the digest form for messages, so if anyone has a solution, would you cc me on your reply? Thanks! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:04:29 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Ardith Ayotte, R.T." Subject: Gratitude - and work-for-hire MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0045_01BEF49C.0E0D9800" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01BEF49C.0E0D9800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you to all the kind list members who replied to my concerns = regarding publishing house and editor idiosyncrasies. I appreciate your = input. The majority of those who responded believe that we are, for the = most part,work-for-hire and the bottomline (pun intended) is that the = editor has the last word (pun intended.) But, I will, when possible, continue to insert my 2 cents worth in = deciding about an index WITH an editor - if they are interested in my 2 = cents. Sometimes one does not know the question to ask of the editor, but I am = learning - fast! Thanks, everyone. =20 Ardith Ayotte, R.T. ABBA Index Services ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01BEF49C.0E0D9800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank you to all the kind list = members who=20 replied to my concerns regarding publishing house and editor=20 idiosyncrasies.  I appreciate your input.  The majority of = those who=20 responded believe that we are, for the most part,work-for-hire and the=20 bottomline (pun intended) is that the editor has the last word (pun=20 intended.)
 
But, I will, when possible, continue = to insert=20 my 2 cents worth in deciding about an index WITH an editor - if they are = interested in my 2 cents.
 
Sometimes one does not know the question to ask of = the editor,=20 but I am learning - fast!
 
Thanks, everyone.  =
 
Ardith Ayotte, R.T.
ABBA Index Services
 
------=_NextPart_000_0045_01BEF49C.0E0D9800-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:21:58 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charles Anderson Organization: the-indexer.com Subject: Re: Working With Authors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The only thing I would add to Sylvia's comments is that in one case, I had an author who felt that the word "index" was synomymous with "concordance," that is, he felt every word he wrote was significant! Charles R. Anderson the-indexer.com P.O. Box 15642 Seattle, WA 98115-0642 phone: 206-985-8799 fax: 206-985-8796 ----- Original Message ----- From: Sylvia Coates To: Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 6:30 AM Subject: Re: Working With Authors > Dear Beti, > > I can only refer to my own experience in working with authors but this is > what usually happens. You are contacted by the author, discuss the project > and agree on the specifications and arrange for the delivery of page proofs. > Sometimes the author will give you a list of terms or concepts they would > like to see in the index. This list should only act as guide and not the > infamous "index terms which only need page references added." After you > have finished up the index you then send it off to the author. Often I have > authors who say "Great, I'll send you the check." Equally often I'll have > authors send me a list of corrections or terms they would like added to the > index. Usually this list is pretty small and it typically takes less than an > hour to finish up the final index version. > > Now, the above scenario isn't the situation that makes most indexers cringe. > What does make indexers cringe is to have authors who insist on spending > hours (literally hours) on the phone with you. Who hound you daily about > your "progress." Who have a seemingly endless list of corrections to the > index. Who are unreasonable and rude and insist on teaching you how to > properly index. Fortunately, these kind of authors are the exception rather > than the rule. But there are enough of these characters that most indexers > have had at least one experience with them. > > And then there is the occasional oddball author. I once had the scare of my > life one Saturday evening when an author rang my doorbell and invited > himself in for awhile. My husband had gone out to get a video for the > evening and I was alone. The author turned out to be harmless and just > "wanted to talk" (really to complain about how hard it is to self publish) > but it shook me up. (And yes, I really was pretty dumb to let him in the > door. Not one of my smarter moves but I though it was one of my kids who had > forgotten their key.) > > On the other hand, one of my most pleasant indexing experiences was working > directly with an author. I actually went to his home and we worked together > on the index and took turns holding his new baby girl. He was an absolute > delight to work with and I have never before or since worked with an author > in such a way. This was an exceptional situation in that the author had > taken the trouble to educate himself about indexing (even having read > several books on the subject), was open to learning, and had interesting > contributions to make. It's not likely that I'll ever have another similar > experience working so closely with an author. > > Most of the time working with an author, at least for me, is as described in > my first paragraph. But I imagine that there are as many difference > experiences as there are indexers and authors. > > And your question was a perfectly reasonable one. When in doubt ask! > > Best, > Sylvia Coates > -----Original Message----- > From: Beti Spangel > To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > Date: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 7:03 PM > Subject: Working With Authors > > > >As a newbie, and at the risk of sounding like a complete idiot, I was > >wondering exactly "working with the author" consists of. Do they sit at > >your elbow and watch your every pencil mark? Do they review every chapter > >that you index? Do they phone you nightly for updates? Exactly what kind > of > >input do they make that most folks out there seem to cringe at the idea of > >working with them? I found the thread about working with authors and > >whether or not to sign a contract very interesting, but would like to know > >exactly what kind of experiences people are referring to. > > > >Beti Spangel > >Spread the Word Indexing > >spreadword@excite.com > > > > > > > > > >________________________________________________________________ > >Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com > >Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:12:45 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Keith McQuay Subject: Re: Cross-platform file problems/FrameMaker Comments: cc: KMArrigoni@aol.com Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Karin, Make sure you are both using the same encoding. I believe Mac usually uses binhex but the PC software at the other end is not normally looking for that and your file will come across all funny. My ftp software (Fetch) has the option to send "rawdata" and this carries across to PC just fine. Or the other option I suppose is if the client's ftp software is set to recieve binhex but I've never tried that. Keith McQuay Foreword Indexing Services 613-278-0426 http://Foreword.pair.com keithm@superaje.com ---------- >From: KMArrigoni@AOL.COM >To: INDEX-L@listserv.binghamton.edu >Subject: Cross-platform file problems/FrameMaker >Date: Wed, Sep 1, 1999, 4:38 PM > >Hi all, > >I have a potential new client that wants me to do an embedded Frame index >for them. Since they use PCs and I use Macs, I thought that it would be >a good idea to do a test file first. They sent me a file and it came >across as generic looking, but I was able to open it with the File > Open >command. I added some embedded entries and sent it back to them. > >Well, they couldn't open it on their end. They get an "Unknown File >Type" dialog box. We've tried all kinds of things: selecting all of the >appropriate cross-platform options in Preferences, sending it as a zipped >file, etc., but they still can't open it. Can you think of anything else >I can try? By the way, they are using version 5.5.6 and I'm using >5.5.3--I don't know if that makes a difference or not. I've ordered the >5.5.6 upgrade and should receive it by the end of the week. > >It's not an e-mail problem because I sent them a Word file and they were >able to open it with no problems. > >Also, I'm thinking of buying the PC version of Frame in the future (since >I could use it on my PC laptop, which I just bought). Is it a lot >different than the Mac version?? > >Thanks in advance for any suggestions. > >Karin > >P.S. I get the digest form for messages, so if anyone has a solution, >would you cc me on your reply? Thanks! > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:33:55 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Frank Stearns Subject: Re: Cross-platform file problems/FrameMaker In-Reply-To: from "KMArrigoni@AOL.COM" at Sep 1, 99 04:38:56 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Well, they couldn't open it on their end. They get an "Unknown File > Type" dialog box. We've tried all kinds of things: selecting all of the The Mac experts can correct me on the details, but as I recall the Mac can place an additional 500 bytes or so at the head of a file to help ID the file to the Mac system. But this is only for the Mac, and will confuse apps reading the file on non-Mac systems. There is a way to turn of this header info when you want to send a file to another OS, but I don't recall the specifics. (Back in my days as an editor in a multi-OS Frame environment we had to deal with this. But once solved, Frame's binary compatible files made this environment work very well. Writers were using Unix, PCs, and Mac and passing files back and forth all day, no problems.) If you do get Frame for the PC, you may want to look into our indexing add-on for FrameMaker, called IXgen (web url below). + --------------------------------------------------------------------- + | Frank Stearns Associates | Developers of Tools for FrameMaker(r): | | mailto:franks@fsatools.com | IXgen, FM2A, Programmable Export Kit | | 360/892-3970 fx:360/253-1498 | Now shipping IXgen 5.5 for Windows!! | + --------------------------------------------------------------------- + | http://www.pacifier.com/~franks (Email if web page access problems) | + --------------------------------------------------------------------- + ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:38:10 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Industrial Pollution index help In-Reply-To: <199909012028.QAA27170@bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > > When data entry is done, do this: > > > > FIND/FIELD=1/PATTERN )$ > > Well, the special characters are mis-translated by my mail reader. On second thought, they are OK. It's my eyes that are going bad. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:34:28 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: susanhernandez@JUNO.COM Subject: Re: Industrial Pollution index help Pam, When you index the plant names, you might be able to shortcut a little by only giving the Genus spp. Especially if there is a list of plants with a common genus, group them in this way: Picris spp. (common name is very general) (The Picris is in italics, the spp. isn't) Also, I use Sky Index and I wrote a few macros to make flipping the entries from scientific name (common name) to common name (scientific name) very easy. I type in one, hit the macro key, and instantly flip it and add the page number. (If you are using Sky for this one, I can e-mail the macro to you, and you would just need to copy it into the macro field.) - Susan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 01:44:39 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elliot Linzer Subject: Re: Remembering what I indexed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paula must have lots of space in her house to be able to keep complete sets of page proofs around for a year or more. I usually toss them out within about a week of finishing the book. Believe it or not, I make sure that I can completely forget a book before I start on my next job. There was a time, back in the mid-1980s, when I had to index several books on Lotus 1-2-3, for several different publishers, one right after another. If I did not "forget" what was in each one, I would have been completely confused about what I had indexed. I would have been going back over pages to find a reference which would have been in a different book! Another year I happened to index five introductory psychology textbooks for five publishers. The books covered the same territory for the same course. Again, I had to "forget" what was in each book to keep my sanity. | Elliot Linzer | 43-05 Crommelin Street | Flushing, New York 11355 | (718) 353-1261 | elinzer@juno.com On Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:06:19 -0400 "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" writes: > I index so many books that I often can't recall just what it was I was > reading several months ago. I've always wanted to write a paragraph about > the book, or do a book report, something to remind me of all the stuff I've > read. When I throw out the page proofs (sometimes after a year or so: I > love to hoard paper, never know when that editor might call me back eight > months down the line...) I always regret it since I don't usually have a > copy of the book. I've started to staple together the table of contents > and a few pages from the introduction (more if I like the book) for each > project and am saving them all in a file to read over sometimes when I feel > the urge to jog my memory. Just thought I'd pass the idea along for those > of you who can't remember every project they've ever indexed. I wish I'd > done this all along. I just spent twenty minutes or so reading through > some of them and am surprised at how much of the book I remember if I have > a few pages to prompt my slow memory. It was FUN! :) > > Paula Durbin-Westby > dwindex@louisa.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 07:57:45 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: Remembering what I indexed Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:44 AM 9/2/99 -0400, Elliot Linzer wrote: > I usually toss them [page proofs] out within about a week of finishing the book. > Believe it or not, I make sure that I can completely forget a book >before I start on my next job. There was a time, back in the mid-1980s, >when I had to index several books on Lotus 1-2-3, for several different >publishers, one right after another. If I did not "forget" what was in >each one, I would have been completely confused about what I had indexed. > I would have been going back over pages to find a reference which would >have been in a different book! About page proofs, in general it's a good idea to keep them as long as you can--about 3 months is a good time frame, just in case. I have actually had editors call me and ask for the proofs much later, because THEY had thrown the original set out and needed to prove a point or something. Of course, in cases like that, it had nothing to do with the index and it wouldn't have mattered if I had kept the proofs or not. Elliot's right--it is really necessary to forget the other books as much as possible. Recently, I had several cookbooks to index at about the same time. For about a day, while I was working on one, I would use the FIND command in Cindex and not find what I wanted, simply because what I was looking for I had put into one of the other indexes! Of course, as I got deeper into each index, this problem disappeared. I keep the title pages of all the books I index and I add my new books to my CV as soon as I get each one, so I at least have a list of what I have indexed. However, I don't always remember what I have indexed, as one day last week I received a portfolio copy of a book I had indexed about 9 months ago. When I opened the package and saw the book, it completely escaped me for a moment that I had indexed it! What a weird (and frankly scary) feeling! Cynthia ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen, M.S., M.A., M.L.I.S. Bertelsen Indexing and Editorial Services Specialities: Food History, Nutrition, Cookbooks, Gastronomy cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.usit.com/cbertel/ Long before institutionalized religions came along--and temples and churches--there was an unquestioned recognition that what goes on in a kitchen is holy. Cooking involves an enormously rich coming together of the fruits of the earth with the inventive genius of the human being. ---Laurel Robertson--- ****************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 08:44:32 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Remembering what I indexed In-Reply-To: <199909021202.IAA11661@bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > I keep the title pages of all the books I index Now there's a good idea. I'm not good at keeping a list of what I've done. I'd have to go back through all my invoices to compile a list of titles. A file of title pages would be pretty handy. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 08:48:56 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: Remembering what I indexed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Up until recently, I had no trouble remembering titles or at least topics of every book I had indexed, and some of the factual information as well. Of course, as a relative beginner, I hadn't worked on that many books, so it wasn't hard to distinguish between them. This month, though, I plowed through five indexes in three weeks. A week later, I couldn't remember anything about the first one other than the publisher's name (and the fact that it had been somewhat easier than many of that publisher's books.) That kind of "memory loss" was scary to me! Fortunately, a quick look at my master index list was enough to remind me. At the end of each book, when I create the invoice, I also add the title, author(s), publisher, and date completed to a master list of all the indexes I've done. I've divided the list by year, so I don't have to scan through all the titles at once. I use this list to add/subtract titles from the project list I send out with my resume. I keep page proofs for a few months, then either recycle them or use them as scratch paper (and then recycle them.) So far, I've never had a publisher ask for them, and most of them have indicated I don't need to keep them. I usually figure a few months gets the book into print, and at that point, the proofs aren't really necessary any more. I am curious as to where/how other indexers store them, though; my husband gets tired of the stacks of old proofs on the floor in my office! Kara Pekar Wordsmith Indexing Services jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:37:21 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Judith W. Kip" Subject: Re: Remembering what I indexed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I keep the title page *and* the copyright page of books I index, stapled = to the invoice and my hard copy, in my file for each publisher. I keep proofs at least until I am paid, or until the large drawer in whic= h I store them is full. Then they get recycled. Occasionally I keep proof= s semipermanently. I do this for books I get a feeling may "come back to bite" me -- where authors were involved and may want changes made, for instance. (I have done a couple of books where I was paid before the questions were asked.) = After one really great experience working with an author -- someone who writes for major publications but was doing her first book and was very concerned about quality and accuracy -- I put the proofs away in my offic= e just from some intuitive feeling that I might need them. About three months after I did the index she sent me a copy of the book. I was mortified to see that the end notes references were all wrong. After a moment of panic about my indexing ability/sanity I was able to check the proofs and find that the endnotes had been reset in larger types *after* = I indexed them and so the numbers no longer matched the pages. I e-mailed her and we fixed it for the paperback edition, but I would not so easily= have been able to figure out why they were wrong if I hadn't had the proofs. = Most of the time, though, I get the feeling that no one will ever ask me= any questions for which I need the proofs. Judy ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Judith W. Kip Indexing Owego, New York = JudithKip@compuserve.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 11:16:26 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: paper pile-up MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara, Re: where to store those page proofs that one has to hang on to "just a little longer": I have a corner of a shelf in one of the steel storage shelving units in our garage. Since it's 18 inches deep, I can go 2-deep in stacks on page proof. I just have one little corner -- wide enough for a stack of papers, and another in front of it. When the stacks are full, up to the top of the shelf, enough time has gone by so that they get tossed. For immediate needs, I have a Rubbermaid tall wastebasket in a corner of my office. The "don't need these now" page proofs get tossed in there when I'm done with them. Again, they are there should an immediate need arise to check something out, because it takes about 2 weeks to fill it up and then get emptied, so the proofs are there for 2 weeks should the publisher have questions. Those systems work for me. I am constantly amazed at HOW MUCH paper I recycle!! Between 2 newspapers a day (local and NYTimes) and work stuff, it really adds up. Have a Happy Labor Day, everybody. That's what it will be for me -- a Labor day! TTFN Janet Perlman SOUTHWEST INDEXING ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 11:27:49 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: Remembering what I indexed In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I've always kept the title page and the page with the Library of Congress stuff on it that has the ISBN #. R >> >> I keep the title pages of all the books I index > >Now there's a good idea. I'm not good at keeping a list of what I've done. >I'd have to go back through all my invoices to compile a list of titles. A >file of title pages would be pretty handy. > >Dick Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric racric ICQ 31476947 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 11:36:38 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DTDIGGS@AOL.COM Subject: Indexing in the future MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Excerpt: 21 IDEAS FOR THE 21ST CENTURY: THE MIND IS IMMORTAL Business Week magazine in a recent issue discusses 21 ideas that may be key to understanding the next century. One idea is the simulation of an individual's brain activity, making it possible for future generations to converse with a virtual equivalent of the person years after his or her death. By the 2030s, technology may be developed to simulate a nervous system's electrical activity, allowing thoughts and feelings to be preserved. Initial versions of the hardware for this "Soul Catcher" have already been developed. A person's life could be recorded using tiny video cameras housed in eyeglass frames. These cameras could be linked to IBM's newest hard disk, which is the size of a quarter and stores 300 MB, or one month worth of data. IBM is also developing software to index video content automatically, allowing users to easily access a specific moment in their lives. By 2099, a "Soul Emancipator" will be able to access the hard data and reconstruct a person's thoughts and feelings, allowing future generations to receive realistic answers to questions posed to a person that has been dead for years. (Business Week 08/30/99) How's that for an interesting indexing job? Of course, it's indexed "automatically"... D. Teddy Diggs DIGGS EDITORIAL SERVICES dtdiggs@aol.com phone: 501-771-1727 fax: 501-771-1731 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 11:08:37 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Robert A. Saigh" Subject: Re: Remembering what I indexed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To All Indexers: Do not throw out your page proofs when the project is complete. Instead, recycle them either through your town/city or at Kinko's. Rob Razorsharp Communications, Inc. Robert A. Saigh, President 6482 Lloyd Avenue Saint Louis, MO 63139-3445 314.781.4731 (voice/fax) fugleman@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 11:14:44 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: susanhernandez@JUNO.COM Subject: Re: paper pile-up and recycling As far as recycling goes, my town doesn't do paper, so I hadn't disposed of old page proofs in any way yet. But I recently came up with a decent idea: I'm bringing my old proofs to my kids' Elementary school, where the students can use them as scrap paper. It's especially useful for the lower grades who get free time to color and draw on their own. (I don't know what their parents will think when they see the strange text on the other side!) If you have a lot of paper stacked up, I'd encourage you to try this - it will really save the schools a lot of money, and at no cost to you. - Susan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 12:45:52 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Lane Subject: ASI Annual Meeting -- May 10-13, 2000 Comments: To: asi-l@onelist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Preliminary information on the ASI Annual Meeting in Albuquerque, May 10-13, 2000, is now posted on the ASI Web site at http://www.asindexing.org/mtg2000.htm Check back from time to time for further details. Karen Lane klane@klane.com co-webmaster ASI Web site co-chair ASI Web Committee webmasters@asindexing.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:49:05 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: paper pile-up and recycling Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:14 AM 9/2/99 -0500, susanhernandez@JUNO.COM wrote: > As far as recycling goes, my town doesn't do paper, so I hadn't >disposed of old page proofs in any way yet. But I recently came up with >a decent idea: I'm bringing my old proofs to my kids' Elementary school, >where the students can use them as scrap paper. It's especially useful >for the lower grades who get free time to color and draw on their own. >(I don't know what their parents will think when they see the strange >text on the other side!) You may think you were kidding, but I'd advise folks who want to try this to be sure they don't send anything to school that could possibly be misinterpreted. Some school boards and teachers are pretty sensitive about information concerning sex, race, religion, etc., coming into the classroom. I've done some books on topics that are definitely NOT appropriate for grammar-school kids, and I can just imagine what an outraged parent might make of the drawing her daughter brought home from school...on the back of a page from my pedophilia book. Sonsie sconroy@slonet.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 18:12:22 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sue Lightfoot Subject: Re: Remembering what I indexed In-Reply-To: <19990901133117.14ae3ed3.in@mail.louisa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I index so many books that I often can't recall just what it was I was >reading several months ago. I've always wanted to write a paragraph about >the book, or do a book report, something to remind me of all the stuff I've >read. . . . >I've started to staple together the table of contents >and a few pages from the introduction (more if I like the book) for each >project . . . Paula, wouldn't your index offer a more detailed guide to the contents?? Sue -------------------------- Sue Lightfoot - Indexer, Proofreader Polperro, Cornwall, England email: slightfoot@macace.co.uk -------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 13:23:47 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Willa MacAllen Subject: Re: ASI Annual Meeting -- May 10-13, 2000 In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19990902123906.00a00490@digital.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:45 PM 9/2/99 -0400, you wrote: >Preliminary information on the ASI Annual Meeting >in Albuquerque, May 10-13, 2000, is now posted >on the ASI Web site at > >http://www.asindexing.org/mtg2000.htm > >Check back from time to time for further details. Hi All: Karen, that's even earlier than the publicity for the 1999 Conference. It really helps to get the lowest airfare when we have even a tentative schedule to plan around several months ahead of time. Willa (who is dreaming about taking a week of vacation with Elderhostel in New Mexico next May after the conference is over, since this would be my first time in the southwest....) Willa MacAllen Information Organizer MacAllen's Information Services Boston ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 14:25:56 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: ASI Annual Meeting -- May 10-13, 2000 In-Reply-To: <199909021802.OAA24865@bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > At 12:45 PM 9/2/99 -0400, you wrote: > >Preliminary information on the ASI Annual Meeting > >in Albuquerque, May 10-13, 2000, is now posted > >on the ASI Web site at > > > >http://www.asindexing.org/mtg2000.htm > > > >Check back from time to time for further details. > > Hi All: > > Karen, that's even earlier than the publicity for the 1999 Conference. Bless you, my child. I've been feeling two months behind schedule ever since I began organizing the conference. (Maybe because I was two months behind schedule assuming the office of VP.) It's reassuring to hear that things are doing better than I realized. Stay tuned for a page with links to things to do and see in Albuquerque. Should be up in a week or so. Dick ASI VP Conference Planner ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 14:43:35 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM Subject: Re: paper pile-up and recycling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/2/99 9:16:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time, susanhernandez@JUNO.COM writes: << I don't know what their parents will think when they see the strange text on the other side!) If you have a lot of paper stacked up, I'd encourage you to try this - it will really save the schools a lot of money, and at no cost to you >> Sonsie's right on this one. Not only do you have to be careful about that (but I know you're doing mostly very technical books, Susan), you also have to be careful that the papers you are recycling are not considered confidential and that you have breached confidentiality with the publisher. Microsoft, for example, has a confidentiality clause in the contract and stamps all pages "Confidential." When I do donate paper, I donate it to my son's old preschool. A less public atmosphere. And I ask the editors if it's OK with them if I'm concerned about confidentiality. Leslie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 12:00:17 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J. Naomi Linzer" Subject: Diskettes for publishers In-Reply-To: <001501bef464$ec58c4a0$0db2accf@indiana> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Indexer's Discussion Group" I just received the results of sending Lesson 10 on a diskette to my instructor. (I also sent a hard copy for the course but wanted to run a test and she agreed.) The Word and WordPerfect rtf files came out the best but with some spacing problems. There were variables that I can eliminate such as 1) I sent Mac diskettes reformatted for a PC. Next time I'll use diskettes for PC's. 2) I did not know her versions of the programs but mine listed as options in my ClarisWorks 4.0 program were old so I assume she had newer ones. (I tried to illicit this info but it slipped between the cracks.) She was kind enough to send me printouts of all the various files I sent BUT my question is. . . (never having been involved in the publishing world) what will the publisher/editor want to DO exactly with the diskette I send in with a printed copy of the index. Will she print it out, and therefore it is important that it prints out perfectly (but why then send the hard copy)? Will she just import it into another file to be typeset so if it LOOKS OK on the screen it will BE OK? Thanks for the clarification. Naomi *****************************************************************************J. J. Naomi Linzer Indexing Services POB 1341 459 Redway Drive Redway, CA 95560 (707) 923-4361 jnlinzer@saber.net ****************************************************************************** http://www.asindexing.org <-- American Society of Indexers website. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:34:06 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pmauer@AOL.COM Subject: need help in medical terminology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi folks, This isn't really an indexing question, but I'm working on a document for the health-care industry, and I've been asked to edit it for clarity and consistency. This is manual is so poorly written that I'm almost in tears. They consistently use terms like "disenrollment", "credentialed", "credentialing", "emergent", etc., as well as using good words incorrectly. When I asked if we could use "emergency" instead of "emergent", I got this response: > in mental health there are terms ermergent [sic], urgent etc that define levels > of emergency. Can someone who is familiar with medical terminology please advise me? My unabridged dictionary defines "emergent" as: 1. coming into view or notice; issuing 2. emerging; rising from a liquid or other surrounding medium 3. coming into existence, esp. with political independence: the emergent nations of Africa 4. arising casually or unexpectedly 5. calling for immediate action; urgent 6. Evolution. displaying emergence 7. Ecol. an aquatic plant having its stem, leaves, etc., extending above the surface of the water. I'm wondering if the use of "emergent" is widely used in the health-care industry or if these folks have just gotten into the habit of using it. Do we have to put up with poor English just because it's commonly used? I'll be interested in other opinions. Thanks. (I hope I'm not opening a can of worms here...) Peg Mauer phone: (518) 359-8616 Indexing, Technical Writing fax: (518) 359-8235 www.asindexing.org <-- What's Indexing? www.stc.org/pics/indexing/ <-- Manager of STC Indexing SIG www.communication-link.com <-- See my award-winning web site! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 14:56:51 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Kennedy Subject: Re: need help in medical terminology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Pmauer@AOL.COM >I'm working on a document for the >health-care industry, and I've been asked to edit it for clarity and >consistency. If the document is *by* the health care industry and *for* the health care industry, my opinion is that you should leave the jargon alone. Every field--including editing and indexing--has its jargon. The people in the field know what it means, and a document that doesn't "talk the talk" will be less credible. Carol Kennedy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:10:10 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SHughes512@AOL.COM Subject: Re: need help in medical terminology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/2/99 12:38:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Pmauer@AOL.COM writes: << I'm wondering if the use of "emergent" is widely used in the health-care industry or if these folks have just gotten into the habit of using it. >> Emergent is okay in health care. AS in emergent; urgent; routine. Sharon ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 14:19:04 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Nancy C. Ford" Subject: NM Meeting Comments: To: Eleanor Allen , Nan Badgett , Sandy Harnagel , Jackie Shane , Candelora Versace , francine cronshaw , Caroline Parks , Heather Jones , Victoria Agee , Nina Forrest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A to Zia Indexers, the New Mexico chapter of the American Society of Indexers, is pleased to announce our next meeting: Saturday, September 25, 1999 Hear all about the Indy Conference and learn how you can participate in the 2000 Conference. The meeting will take place at the main branch of the Santa Fe Public Library, 145 Washington Ave. (a block north of the Plaza. There is a small parking lot behind the library. ) from 1:00 to 3:00 p.m. The meeting room is on the second floor. Francine Cronshaw will share tips for revising already existing indexes from the Secondary Indexing Workshop with Francis Lennie. For those who have faced this often grueling task, helpful ideas would be welcome. Francine will probably add a few tips of her own. She will also relate experiences from hosting the Hospitality Suite, the after hours gathering place to munch snacks, meet people, and chat. Nancy Ford, who attended an ASI Conference for her first time, will share what she learned about voice recognition software, visual indexing, and Bella Hass Weinberg^Òs Exhaustivity of Indexes. ASI representatives were in Albuquerque in August and met with the A to Zia board to brainstorm for the 2000 Conference. Many exciting and fun ways for all of us to help out were developed. Caroline Parks will share the information with everyone so we can all plan to participate in the 2000 Conference. There is no charge for this meeting. Please contact Nancy Ford (nancford@nmia.com, 281-7837) if you have any questions. * * * * * * * * * * -- Nancy Ford nancford@nmia.com Indexing and Editing Services ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:33:21 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diane Brenner Subject: Re: need help in medical terminology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peg, In my experience "emergent" does have a specialized meaning in the medical field: Mosby's Medical, Nursing and Allied Health Dictionary defines it as: "arising, often unexpectedly, or improving or modifying an existing thing." Not good English, I know, but a definition that fits the context. There is no special definition for "urgent" in Mosby's, though I think the usual one -- i.e., needing immediate attention -- applies. I, too, hate the ever-increasing tendency to convert nouns into verbs -- "credentialed" and "credentialling" are two particularly odorous examples, but the process is creeping into respectable use: "networking," for example. And with regards to the health care industry, we're all getting "disenrolled," though I don't think I'll ever get used to either the word or the actuality. Diane www.dianebrenner.com Pmauer@AOL.COM wrote: > Hi folks, > > This isn't really an indexing question, but I'm working on a document for the > health-care industry, and I've been asked to edit it for clarity and > consistency. This is manual is so poorly written that I'm almost in tears. > They consistently use terms like "disenrollment", "credentialed", > "credentialing", "emergent", etc., as well as using good words incorrectly. > When I asked if we could use "emergency" instead of "emergent", I got this > response: > > > in mental health there are terms ermergent [sic], urgent etc that define > levels > > of emergency. > > Can someone who is familiar with medical terminology please advise me? My > unabridged dictionary defines "emergent" as: > 1. coming into view or notice; issuing > 2. emerging; rising from a liquid or other surrounding medium > 3. coming into existence, esp. with political independence: the emergent > nations of Africa > 4. arising casually or unexpectedly > 5. calling for immediate action; urgent > 6. Evolution. displaying emergence > 7. Ecol. an aquatic plant having its stem, leaves, etc., extending above the > surface of the water. > > I'm wondering if the use of "emergent" is widely used in the health-care > industry or if these folks have just gotten into the habit of using it. Do we > have to put up with poor English just because it's commonly used? I'll be > interested in other opinions. Thanks. (I hope I'm not opening a can of worms > here...) > > Peg Mauer phone: (518) 359-8616 > Indexing, Technical Writing fax: (518) 359-8235 > www.asindexing.org <-- What's Indexing? > www.stc.org/pics/indexing/ <-- Manager of STC Indexing SIG > www.communication-link.com <-- See my award-winning web site! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 13:41:39 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John Posada Subject: Re: need help in medical terminology Comments: To: Pmauer@AOL.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Peg. If you are going to do medical indexing as a serious part of your skillset, there are several books that you might want to check out. They are all by Merck, and I'm not recommending them because I'm on contract here, but because I'm here, I've become familiar with them. I happen to have online access to them through the Merck inhouse intranet, so while I cannot share access to them, can verify that they are packed with information. I did a search for "Merck" on Amazon and you might want to do the same. I got the following hit list when I did it. If you do the same, check out the reviews of the books that they include on each of the book's pages. Good luck -------- The Merck Manual of Diagnosis and Therapy (17th ed)[includes facsimile of original 1899 edition] -- Mark H. Beers(Editor), Robert Berkow (Editor); Hardcover The Merck Manual of Medical Information : Home Edition (1st Edition) -- Robert Berkow(Preface), et al; Hardcover The Merck Index : An Encyclopedia of Chemicals, Drugs, and Biologicals (Annual) -- Susan Budavari(Editor), et al; Hardcover > > This isn't really an indexing question, but I'm > working on a document for the > health-care industry, and I've been asked to edit it > for clarity and === John Posada, Merck Research Laboratories Sr Technical Writer, WinHelp and html (work) john_posada@merck.com - 732-594-0873 (pers) jposada01@yahoo.com - 732-291-7811 "The art of creating software that is usable by individuals is a communication skill. It is not a programming skill." --Bill Atkinson, creator of MacPaint and HyperCard __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:51:11 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: Need word processor/proofreader (no indexing, sorry) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (I'm sorry if this is a duplicate post. The first one seems to be lost. I think I might have sent it to the old address) Hello, all: Excuse my non-indexing post, but I though perhaps someone would be interested in this small job. It's from Lucille Fidler, at UNC Chapel Hill (North Carolina). She needs someone to do just some word processing--entering changes from marked proofs--and eventually some proofreading... but here, let her tell you: ------------------------------------------------------- Good morning! I have another request for help. We need someone to do corrections on a revised manuscript on a short turnaround, 10 days to two weeks. Do you know anyone who does manuscript word processing, preferably in Word 8? This book started out as a revision of an existing book with about 220 typeset pages. The author marked up corrections on pages from an old book, and we were going to make the changes in proof. Then the General Assembly got busy and he had to revise the revisions. It is now at a point where we need to pull a text file off the PageMaker file and get the revisions done in manuscript form. The only freelance word processing people I know are booked. (It has already been edited, but will need proofreading eventually.) --------------------------------------------------------- PLEASE do not respond to me or to INDEX-L. Please respond directly to Lucille Fidler: mailto:Fidler@iogmail.iog.unc.edu Regards, Ann Norcross ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:50:00 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: emillen@MCP.COM Subject: Re: need help in medical terminology Comments: To: Pmauer@AOL.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm not a medical professional, but my brother is a trained EMT and so I've heard some of the lingo. From what I understand, "emergent" is a term the triage nurses use to help organize emergency room admissions. The pecking order is 1. emergent (needs immediate attention -- heart attack, etc.) 2. urgent (serious but stable) 3. non-urgent/routine 4. expectant (DOA or too many injuries to survive) But again, that's really just hearsay on my part. Hopefully some of the medical indexers on the list will have solid info. Erika Millen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:59:01 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: need help in medical terminology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Many times on this list the question has come up as to whether subject area expertise is needed to index (or edit, for that matter) in a field. My answer has always been that it is necessary at least to be aware of and familiar with the vocabulary, the jargon, used in the field. Peg's terminology question points up the issues that can arise when working in a field one is unfamiliar with. Of course, having a venue such as Index-L which allows one to ask a variety of people for help makes the process more foolproof. :-) To me, that's where the line in the sand is drawn. If one is unfamiliar, then the perils are what Peg is going through. I'm not saying you can't do a good job. It's just that it makes the job tougher, if nothing else. Janet Perlman SOUTHWEST INDEXING ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:27:56 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Willa MacAllen Subject: Re: ASI Annual Meeting -- May 10-13, 2000 In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All: >Bless you, my child. I've been feeling two months behind schedule ever >since I began organizing the conference. (Maybe because I was two months >behind schedule assuming the office of VP.) >It's reassuring to hear that things are doing better than I realized. > >Stay tuned for a page with links to things to do and see in Albuquerque. >Should be up in a week or so. Dick, if you came on board two months after the fact, and you still can get info up on the conference on the web site this early in the planning process, you are still making good progress in planning the conference. Willa (looking forward to the weekly Thursday nite contra dance.....) Willa MacAllen Information Organizer MacAllen's Information Services Boston ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 17:06:57 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: need help in medical terminology In-Reply-To: <38733590.25002b2e@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Peg, "Emergent" is a commonly used term to indicate that a situation is emerging as an acute situation or crisis. It's not poor English nor poor usage, and would be immediately understandable to any mental health or emergency room staff person. Webster's New Dict defines it as 1. emerging, 2. arising unespectedly or as a new or improved development, 3. recently founded or newly independent. All those other terms you listed are also standard usage in the medical/psych industry and though they might make people not "in the business" cringe (and even some of us who are!), as Stewart Smolley would say, "They're OK" (which might be an obscure reference to some people who have never seen Saturday Night Live). Rachel (mental health professional, crisis clinician, frequently to be found attending to emergent situations in local emergency rooms) >I'm wondering if the use of "emergent" is widely used in the health-care >industry or if these folks have just gotten into the habit of using it. Do we >have to put up with poor English just because it's commonly used? I'll be >interested in other opinions. Thanks. (I hope I'm not opening a can of worms >here...) > >Peg Mauer phone: (518) 359-8616 >Indexing, Technical Writing fax: (518) 359-8235 >www.asindexing.org <-- What's Indexing? >www.stc.org/pics/indexing/ <-- Manager of STC Indexing SIG >www.communication-link.com <-- See my award-winning web site! Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric racric ICQ 31476947 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 17:37:33 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Ardith Ayotte, R.T." Subject: Abused words MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0033_01BEF569.D68BA600" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BEF569.D68BA600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Diane wrote: I, too, hate the ever-increasing tendency to convert nouns into verbs -- "credentialed" and "credentialling" are two particularly odorous = examples, but the process is creeping into respectable use: "networking," for example. = And with regards to the health care industry, we're all getting "disenrolled," = though I don't think I'll ever get used to either the word or the actuality. And then there is always that wonderful "dialogue!" = "Let's dialogue about this issue." =20 I do remember "emergent" used when I was working in hospital. Ardith Ayotte ABBA Index Services ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BEF569.D68BA600 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Diane = wrote:
I, too, hate=20 the ever-increasing tendency to convert nouns into verbs=20 --
"credentialed" and "credentialling" are two=20 particularly odorous examples, but
the process is creeping into = respectable=20 use: "networking," for example. And with
regards to the = health care=20 industry, we're all getting "disenrolled," though I
don't = think=20 I'll ever get used to either the word or the actuality.
 
And then there is always that = wonderful=20 "dialogue!"
          &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp; =20 "Let's dialogue about this issue." 
 
I do remember "emergent" used when I was = working in=20 hospital.
 
Ardith Ayotte
ABBA Index Services
 
------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BEF569.D68BA600-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 17:28:47 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Scanner In-Reply-To: <199909021847.OAA17398@bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I recently gave in to a long-standing desire for a scanner and bought a Hewlett-Packard ScanJet 5200C (about $300). I also bought OmniPage Pro OCR software, another $100. When I scan an index in which I have used Cindex temporary pagination (something like 03%69 for chapter 3, page 69) the OCR does not recognize the percent sign. It would be one thing if it simply failed to recognize all the percent signs and let me globally correct them in the scanned document, but it treats the entire locator string as unrecognized. Thus if I have 2,000 locators in the scanned document I would have to make 2,000 manual changes. Now, I have no compelling need to scan such an index at the moment, but I am disappointed that I bought a fairly high-end hardware/software package and it falls flat on its face on such a (to my mind) simple task. Anyone else have experience with scanners? Suggestions? My understanding is that OmniPage Pro is about the best OCR on the market. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 17:47:54 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Kennedy Subject: Re: need help in medical terminology Comments: To: dbrenner@JAVANET.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Diane Brenner >I, too, hate the ever-increasing tendency to convert nouns into verbs -- >"credentialed" and "credentialling" are two particularly odorous examples, but >the process is creeping into respectable use: "networking," for example. I don't think the tendency is "ever-increasing." Nouns have been turned into verbs, and vice versa, for as long as English has been around. For example, according to the OED Supplement, "network" has been used as a verb for over 100 years, and "credentialed" has also been used for over 100 years. Carol Kennedy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:41:15 -0700 Reply-To: Bonny.McLaughlin@cgu.edu Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bonny McLaughlin Organization: cgs.edu Subject: ASI So-Cal Oct 2 Meeting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Learn about Indexing of Art and Tour the Huntington! The Huntington, San Marino, California Saturday, October 2, 1999 10:00 to 3:00 Our speakers will be Linda Zoeckler, Head of the Huntington's Art Reference Library, and Brooke Henderson, Reference Specialist at the Getty Research Institute. They will describe for us the many uses to which they put indexes to works of art, explain the difficulties they experience in using such indexes, and suggest how to improve them. Our day will begin with a two-hour tour of the Huntington Library, conducted by Linda Zoeckler. At noon, we'll have lunch (included in the price) and then we'll have our presentation on art indexes. The conclusion of the day will be a tour of the Art Reference Library, which will conclude in time for you to browse the Museum Book and Gift Shop or a portion of the Huntington Gardens. To register, send your check (payable to ASI-SoCal) for $XX, plus the Registration Form that follows, to the address below by September 25th. Sorry, but no registrations can be accepted after September 25th, nor can you register at the door. We know this may seem a bit arbitrary to some, but because we must arrange for facilities and lunches, we must have a firm count a week in advance. ****************************************************************************** HUNTINGTON LIBRARY TOUR AND PRESENTATION ON ART INDEXES Please register me for the October 2nd ASI-SoCal meeting at the Huntington Library. Enclosed is my check for $XX. Name___________________________________ Address___________________________________ ___________________________________ Phone___________________________________ E-Mail Address___________________________ My box lunch preference (includes side salad of the day, seasonal fresh fruit cup, pickle spear, two cookies, iced tea or soda): ______Ham on rye with lettuce and tomato ______Chicken salad on sourdough with lettuce and tomato ______Jack cheese on wheat with lettuce, tomato, avocado and sprouts Send to: Anne Leach 78240 Bonanza Drive Palm Desert, CA 92211-1208 ***************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:08:22 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Chris Rich Subject: Re: Need word processor/proofreader (no indexing, sorry) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I think you don't want this job. I don;t even know what Word 8 is, and as seriously as you take these jobs, I think it wouldn't be satisfying or remunerative. ---------- >From: Ann Norcross >To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU >Subject: Need word processor/proofreader (no indexing, sorry) >Date: Thu, Sep 2, 1999, 4:51 PM > > (I'm sorry if this is a duplicate post. The first one seems > to be lost. I think I might have sent it to the old > address) > > Hello, all: > > Excuse my non-indexing post, but I though perhaps someone > would be interested in this small job. It's from Lucille > Fidler, at UNC Chapel Hill (North Carolina). She needs > someone to do just some word processing--entering changes > from marked proofs--and eventually some proofreading... but > here, let her tell you: > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Good morning! I have another request for help. > > We need someone to do corrections on a revised manuscript on > a short > turnaround, 10 days to two weeks. Do you know anyone who > does manuscript > word processing, preferably in Word 8? This book started out > as a revision > of an existing book with about 220 typeset pages. The author > marked up > corrections on pages from an old book, and we were going to > make the changes > in proof. Then the General Assembly got busy and he had to > revise the > revisions. It is now at a point where we need to pull a text > file off the > PageMaker file and get the revisions done in manuscript > form. The only > freelance word processing people I know are booked. (It > has already been edited, but will need proofreading > eventually.) > --------------------------------------------------------- > > PLEASE do not respond to me or to INDEX-L. > Please respond directly to Lucille Fidler: > mailto:Fidler@iogmail.iog.unc.edu > > Regards, > Ann Norcross > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:27:03 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Chris Rich Subject: Re: Need word processor/proofreader (no indexing, sorry) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit And I'm saying, "Don't do it." It's a clerical job from which you wouldn't learn much except Word 8..a typing job, in an alien WP program. that you're too busy to do right now. I could be wrong, but... ---------- >From: Ann Norcross >To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU >Subject: Need word processor/proofreader (no indexing, sorry) >Date: Thu, Sep 2, 1999, 4:51 PM > > (I'm sorry if this is a duplicate post. The first one seems > to be lost. I think I might have sent it to the old > address) > > Hello, all: > > Excuse my non-indexing post, but I though perhaps someone > would be interested in this small job. It's from Lucille > Fidler, at UNC Chapel Hill (North Carolina). She needs > someone to do just some word processing--entering changes > from marked proofs--and eventually some proofreading... but > here, let her tell you: > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Good morning! I have another request for help. > > We need someone to do corrections on a revised manuscript on > a short > turnaround, 10 days to two weeks. Do you know anyone who > does manuscript > word processing, preferably in Word 8? This book started out > as a revision > of an existing book with about 220 typeset pages. The author > marked up > corrections on pages from an old book, and we were going to > make the changes > in proof. Then the General Assembly got busy and he had to > revise the > revisions. It is now at a point where we need to pull a text > file off the > PageMaker file and get the revisions done in manuscript > form. The only > freelance word processing people I know are booked. (It > has already been edited, but will need proofreading > eventually.) > --------------------------------------------------------- > > PLEASE do not respond to me or to INDEX-L. > Please respond directly to Lucille Fidler: > mailto:Fidler@iogmail.iog.unc.edu > > Regards, > Ann Norcross > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 21:52:22 -0400 Reply-To: riomaro@riofrancos.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Maro Riofrancos Subject: Re: Scanner In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Have you tried training Omnipage to recognize characters it has a problem with? It's worth doing, even though it can be a tedious procedure. If the document is low contrast or poor quality, try the 3D mode. Have you tried fiddling with the settings? It often happens that increasing the darkness setting increases the accuracy considerably, sometimes dramatically. Actually, I have a feeling that the previous version of Omnipage (8) did better with accents and non-alphanumeric characters. One thing that baffles me about OCR programs is why can't they assume that normally a document will not have letters, numbers and/or non-alphanumeric characters combined in the same "word". I hate to tell you, but for $79.95 more (at Buy.com) you could have gotten the 6250 model, which has a very reliable 25-page ADF (automatic document feeder), a real time saver if you are scanning multi-page documents. For scanning whole books, it's better having a scanner with a 50-page ADF, like a Microtek. Interestingly, when buying an ADF separately, it often costs more than the scanner itself. Maro -----Original Message----- From: Indexer's Discussion Group [mailto:INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Richard Evans Sent: Thursday, September 02, 1999 5:29 PM To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Subject: Scanner I recently gave in to a long-standing desire for a scanner and bought a Hewlett-Packard ScanJet 5200C (about $300). I also bought OmniPage Pro OCR software, another $100. When I scan an index in which I have used Cindex temporary pagination (something like 03%69 for chapter 3, page 69) the OCR does not recognize the percent sign. It would be one thing if it simply failed to recognize all the percent signs and let me globally correct them in the scanned document, but it treats the entire locator string as unrecognized. Thus if I have 2,000 locators in the scanned document I would have to make 2,000 manual changes. Now, I have no compelling need to scan such an index at the moment, but I am disappointed that I bought a fairly high-end hardware/software package and it falls flat on its face on such a (to my mind) simple task. Anyone else have experience with scanners? Suggestions? My understanding is that OmniPage Pro is about the best OCR on the market. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 22:48:54 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Blee811@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Word 8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/2/99 8:22:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, felinitas@EARTHLINK.NET writes: << I think you don't want this job. I don;t even know what Word 8 is, and as seriously as you take these jobs, I think it wouldn't be satisfying or remunerative. >> When I was editing a textbook about Word97 just as the software was being released, the author, publisher and I all believed it would be called Word 8.0, because the current version was Word 7.0. Microsoft dropped the version number from the title, however, and called it Word97 instead. (Many last minutes chnages in the textbook!). So that may be what the job offer is referring to. Bill Lee Cincinnati, OH ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 22:56:32 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elliot Linzer Subject: Re: paper pile-up and recycling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have always been a strong advocate of recycling as much of the stuff we consume as possible. However, I see a problem with what Susan Hernandez is suggesting. If the page proofs she is donating to her kids' school are really old, whatever she does with them is okay. But, it they are not so old, specifically, if the book has not actually been printed and distributed, there is a real problem involving confidentiality. Publishers do not usually ask us to sign confidentiality agreements. Non-publishing clients frequently do, especially computer companies. Even if it never comes up in discussion, page proofs are to be regarded as confidential material. Once the book is out in the bookstores or the computer manual is in the users' hands, this issue is moot. Until then, be discreet about what you do with your page proofs. By the way, even after I discard my copies of the page proofs (yes, I recycle them), I keep my computer files for the index. I hold on to them for at least six months on floppies unless there is a possibility of the book or manual being revised later, in which case I hold on to the files for at least five years. | Elliot Linzer | 43-05 Crommelin Street | Flushing, New York 11355 | (718) 353-1261 | elinzer@juno.com On Thu, 2 Sep 1999 11:14:44 -0500 susanhernandez@JUNO.COM writes: > As far as recycling goes, my town doesn't do paper, so I hadn't > disposed of old page proofs in any way yet. But I recently came up > with a decent idea: I'm bringing my old proofs to my kids' > Elementary school, where the students can use them as scrap paper. > It's especially useful for the lower grades who get free time to > color and draw on their own. (I don't know what their parents will > think when they see the strange text on the other side!) > If you have a lot of paper stacked up, I'd encourage you to try > this - it will really save the schools a lot of money, and at no cost to you. > - Susan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:33:42 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charles Anderson Organization: the-indexer.com Subject: Re: Scanner MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just to prove that money doesn't always equal the best - I printed your e-mail and scanned it with my cheap little Mustek 1200 CU ($99 and the OCR software, TextBridge, was free with the scanner). It recognized everything flawlessly include varying fonts and the percent sign. Charles ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Evans To: Sent: Thursday, September 02, 1999 2:28 PM Subject: Scanner > I recently gave in to a long-standing desire for a scanner and bought a > Hewlett-Packard ScanJet 5200C (about $300). I also bought OmniPage Pro OCR > software, another $100. > > When I scan an index in which I have used Cindex temporary pagination > (something like 03%69 for chapter 3, page 69) the OCR does not recognize the > percent sign. It would be one thing if it simply failed to recognize all > the percent signs and let me globally correct them in the scanned document, > but it treats the entire locator string as unrecognized. Thus if I have > 2,000 locators in the scanned document I would have to make 2,000 manual > changes. > > Now, I have no compelling need to scan such an index at the moment, but I am > disappointed that I bought a fairly high-end hardware/software package and > it falls flat on its face on such a (to my mind) simple task. > > Anyone else have experience with scanners? Suggestions? My understanding is > that OmniPage Pro is about the best OCR on the market. > > Dick > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 23:52:25 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Sample contract MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All right, here's the contract I use with authors (fictional example). I print it on my letterhead with the title centered and in a bigger typeface. I send them two copies, and ask them to sign both and send one back. I deal with the issue of slipping dates with the phrase "Index will be completed and sent simultaneously to the author and the editor (unless other arrangements are agreed upon) 30 days after receipt of page proofs, or as agreed between the editor and the indexer." It's the press, not the author, that is really controlling that due date, so I end up negotiating with them anyway. So far, it's worked just fine. I also work towards getting the second half of the payment in time by reminding the author that if they're submitting their invoice to a university department, they're still responsible and need to keep on top of it. But the contract seems to alert them to the urgency of my getting paid, and every one has been quite conscientious since I started using it. Maybe I've just been lucky! Do Mi Stauber Indexing Agreement This agreement is made on April 15, 1998 between Do Mi Stauber (hereafter known as "Indexer") and Alexis Jones (hereafter known as "Author"). The indexer agrees to index Ice Cream and the Culture of Leisure, published by Swallow Press, Gina Edwards, production editor. The estimated total number of pages in the book is 300. The total indexing fee is $4.25 per indexable page of text. 50% of this fee, based on estimated total pages, is due to the indexer on or before the date page proofs are received by the indexer. The remainder of the total fee, based on the actual number of pages, is due to the indexer within 30 days after receipt of the index. An invoice will be shipped with the index. The author will pay for express shipping charges for delivery of index to author and publisher, if the index is shipped rather than emailed. These will be included in the final invoice. Index will be completed and sent simultaneously to the author and the editor (unless other arrangements are agreed upon) 30 days after receipt of page proofs, or as agreed between the editor and the indexer. Total estimated fee: $1275.00 Due to indexer on or before page proof receipt date: $637.50 Please make check out to Do Mi Stauber Indexing Service. INDEXER AUTHOR ___________________________ _____________________________ signature date signature date ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 02:40:23 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elliot Linzer Subject: Re: Indexing in the future MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit D. Teddy Diggs presents us with what one writer for Business Week sees as the future of indexing. This is what Business Week wastes their ink and paper on? A 300 MB hard disk will store a month's worth of experiences and thoughts? Maybe for a clam but certainly not a human. Assuming that Teddy's summary is accurate, this article belongs in Omni, not a serious business journal. | Elliot Linzer | 43-05 Crommelin Street | Flushing, New York 11355 | (718) 353-1261 | elinzer@juno.com On Thu, 2 Sep 1999 11:36:38 EDT DTDIGGS@AOL.COM writes: > Excerpt: > > 21 IDEAS FOR THE 21ST CENTURY: THE MIND IS IMMORTAL > > Business Week magazine in a recent issue discusses 21 ideas that may be key > to understanding the next century. One idea is the simulation of an > individual's brain activity, making it possible for future generations to > converse with a virtual equivalent of the person years after his or her > death. By the 2030s, technology may be developed to simulate a nervous > system's electrical activity, allowing thoughts and feelings to be preserved. > Initial versions of the hardware for this "Soul Catcher" have already been > developed. A person's life could be recorded using tiny video cameras housed > in eyeglass frames. These cameras could be linked to IBM's newest hard disk, > which is the size of a quarter and stores 300 MB, or one month worth of data. > IBM is also developing software to index video content automatically, > allowing users to easily access a specific moment in their lives. By 2099, a > "Soul Emancipator" will be able to access the hard data and reconstruct a > person's thoughts and feelings, allowing future generations to receive > realistic answers to questions posed to a person that has been dead for > years. (Business Week 08/30/99) > > How's that for an interesting indexing job? Of course, it's indexed "automatically"... > > D. Teddy Diggs > DIGGS EDITORIAL SERVICES > dtdiggs@aol.com > phone: 501-771-1727 > fax: 501-771-1731 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 02:39:36 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Scanner In-Reply-To: <199909030401.AAA04006@bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dick, does OmniPage Pro have a "learning" mode? I have TextBridge Pro, and it can learn to recognize any character or symbol it initially screws up, even if the character is part of a string. You set the thing to learning mode, scan your text, and then it works something like a spell checker: it stops at questionable text and you have an opportunity to type in the proper interpretation. I haven't worked with OmniPage Pro, but I'd be surprised if any of the new OCR software doesn't have this feature somewhere. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My indexer@execpc.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer new Web address to come ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 01:48:28 -0700 Reply-To: Elinor Lindheimer Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: Re: need help in medical terminology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peg, You may be dealing with jargon here that's commonly used in the field, although it may seem abhorrent to you and to many others among us. I have certainly seen the word "credentialed" in the education field. And "emergent" seems to fit with your definition no. 5. One suggestion: try checking some of these terms in a medical dictionary. Elinor Lindheimer elinorl@mcn.org >Hi folks, > >This isn't really an indexing question, but I'm working on a document for the >health-care industry, and I've been asked to edit it for clarity and >consistency. This is manual is so poorly written that I'm almost in tears. >They consistently use terms like "disenrollment", "credentialed", >"credentialing", "emergent", etc., as well as using good words incorrectly. >When I asked if we could use "emergency" instead of "emergent", I got this >response: > >> in mental health there are terms ermergent [sic], urgent etc that define >levels >> of emergency. > >Can someone who is familiar with medical terminology please advise me? My >unabridged dictionary defines "emergent" as: >1. coming into view or notice; issuing >2. emerging; rising from a liquid or other surrounding medium >3. coming into existence, esp. with political independence: the emergent >nations of Africa >4. arising casually or unexpectedly >5. calling for immediate action; urgent >6. Evolution. displaying emergence >7. Ecol. an aquatic plant having its stem, leaves, etc., extending above the >surface of the water. > >I'm wondering if the use of "emergent" is widely used in the health-care >industry or if these folks have just gotten into the habit of using it. Do we >have to put up with poor English just because it's commonly used? I'll be >interested in other opinions. Thanks. (I hope I'm not opening a can of worms >here...) > >Peg Mauer phone: (518) 359-8616 >Indexing, Technical Writing fax: (518) 359-8235 >www.asindexing.org <-- What's Indexing? >www.stc.org/pics/indexing/ <-- Manager of STC Indexing SIG >www.communication-link.com <-- See my award-winning web site! > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 07:49:11 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: Re: Need word processor/proofreader (no indexing, sorry) In-Reply-To: <199909030008.RAA10117@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > -----Original Message----- > From: Indexer's Discussion Group > [mailto:INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf > Of Chris Rich > Sent: Thursday, September 02, 1999 8:08 PM > To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > Subject: Re: Need word processor/proofreader (no > indexing, sorry) > > > I think you don't want this job. I don;t even > know what Word 8 is, and as > seriously as you take these jobs, I think it > wouldn't be satisfying or > remunerative. Chris, if you're not interested, that's fine. But why discourage others from doing it? Ann > ---------- > >From: Ann Norcross > >To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > >Subject: Need word processor/proofreader (no > indexing, sorry) > >Date: Thu, Sep 2, 1999, 4:51 PM > > > > > (I'm sorry if this is a duplicate post. The > first one seems > > to be lost. I think I might have sent it to the old > > address) > > > > Hello, all: > > > > Excuse my non-indexing post, but I though > perhaps someone > > would be interested in this small job. It's > from Lucille > > Fidler, at UNC Chapel Hill (North Carolina). She needs > > someone to do just some word > processing--entering changes > > from marked proofs--and eventually some > proofreading... but > > here, let her tell you: > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > Good morning! I have another request for help. > > > > We need someone to do corrections on a revised > manuscript on > > a short > > turnaround, 10 days to two weeks. Do you know anyone who > > does manuscript > > word processing, preferably in Word 8? This > book started out > > as a revision > > of an existing book with about 220 typeset > pages. The author > > marked up > > corrections on pages from an old book, and we > were going to > > make the changes > > in proof. Then the General Assembly got busy > and he had to > > revise the > > revisions. It is now at a point where we need > to pull a text > > file off the > > PageMaker file and get the revisions done in manuscript > > form. The only > > freelance word processing people I know are booked. (It > > has already been edited, but will need proofreading > > eventually.) > > > --------------------------------------------------------- > > > > PLEASE do not respond to me or to INDEX-L. > > Please respond directly to Lucille Fidler: > > mailto:Fidler@iogmail.iog.unc.edu > > > > Regards, > > Ann Norcross > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 08:23:19 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: Sample contract In-Reply-To: <9880842.25009ff9@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Here's my contract for what it's worth. I have some doubts about the line about the indexer being willing to make reasonable changes to ensure safisfaction. I think that is way too ambiguous and could leave me wide open. If anyone has a better way of wording it, I'd like to hear it. Mine is also on letterhead and is formatted better than I can show it here. I also adjust it frequently to suit the specific job. Rae ----------------- Contact: Job: Delivery date to indexer: Delivery date of index: Payment: Indexer agrees to an estimate of $xx per indexable page without seeing the manuscript. This is based on the expectation that there will be an average of 3-5 index entries per page. If the average number of terms per page is significantly higher, the fee will be renegotiated after the manuscript arrives. Client agrees to pay one third of the estimated fee before the indexer will begin work. Balance will be due and upon delivery of the index. Indexer agrees to provide satisfactory work and will make reasonable adjustments to the index after submission without extra charge. However, time spent for all changes, corrections, or adjustments of any kind made by editor, author, or publisher will be charged an additional fee at an hourly rate of $45 per hour. Contingencies: Client will pay a fee of one third of agreed-upon estimate in case of a job cancelled before submission of the final index, whether or not the indexer has begun work. The client will pay full fee in case of a job cancelled for any reason after the completion and/or submission of the index. Client agrees to pay finance charges on balances past 30 days due. Client understands that late arrival of manuscript to indexer will result in late delivery of completed index by the same number of days. Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric racric ICQ 31476947 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 08:27:56 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: need help in medical terminology In-Reply-To: <001701bef5e9$1a0569a0$4d08bdcc@elinorl.mcn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Peg, here's a word you may find, and just adore: capitated. It has to do with the amount of payment Medicaid is willing to give to an individual. Capitation, capitated, capped limits, yuck. Who thought that one up? Anne Boleyn in the afterlife? Rae Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric racric ICQ 31476947 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 08:59:05 -0400 Reply-To: varney@mindspring.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: J Flenner Subject: Re: Need word processor/proofreader (no indexing, sorry) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ann Norcross wrote: > Chris, if you're not interested, that's fine. But why > discourage others from doing it? > > Ann This is very strange! 1. Chris (felinitas) is *not* *subscribed* to the indexer's list. 2. I forwarded your post to her (by clicking on "forward"), asking her if she thought *I* would do well to ask to do the job you emailed the list about. 3. She responded to my forwarded post to her, using "reply" on her system. 4. Her replies to *me* (both of them!!) were sent to the indexer's list. 5. AND, the indexer's list did *not* reject her posts, even tho' she's not subscribed!! So please, Ann and other list members, forgive her--she knoweth not what she did to make this happen!! and she *certainly* was not discouraging anyone on the list, except me, from asking about the job!! Just out of curiosity, are there any email-system mavens who see what happened? Does she have some email preference set to "reply" to the sender of a *forwarded* message, instead of to the actual sender (she uses outlook express)? Is the indexer's list server not rejecting unsubscribed senders?? I must say, I LOL'ed at her panic when I told her what was happening to her posts intended for me! But at least I received them--thru the list!! Jackie F. [Chris, if the Force sends this to you, do *not* "reply."] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 09:02:10 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PilarW@AOL.COM Subject: lists of titles indexed, and page proofs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dick Evans posted: <<<> I keep the title pages of all the books I index Now there's a good idea. I'm not good at keeping a list of what I've done. I'd have to go back through all my invoices to compile a list of titles. A file of title pages would be pretty handy.>>> As a Cindex user, I have an index file called "Title" into which I enter the name of every book I've indexed, with subentries including the author's last name, publisher, and year indexed. As soon as I finish a job, I make the entry, under the appropriate subject field. Any time I need to create a list of recent titles indexed for a certain topic or client or year, I can easily create it from my Cindex file. When it comes to page proofs, I keep pp for all jobs until I'm paid for the job. I store the pp underneath my printer table. After payment is received, I recycle the pp several ways: as printer paper, as craft paper for my kids (very high demand there!), or through the county (don't throw away the boxes those big jobs come in! They're perfect for putting those pp in for the recycling guys to pick up). happy indexing, Pilar ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------- L. Pilar Wyman * Wyman Indexing PilarW@aol.com Great Indexes for Great Books ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 08:09:43 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Kennedy Subject: Re: need help in medical terminology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Rachel Rice >Capitation, capitated, capped limits, yuck. Who thought that one up? What is it that you object to about these words? They're not neologisms; "cap" has been a verb in English for more than 500 years; "capitate" has been a verb for more than 300 years; "capitation" is fairly new, at just over 100 years. Is it their extended use by the health care industry that you object to? English (and I suspect other languages, but I don't know the history of others) has always taken existing words and applied them to new cases. Carol Kennedy ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 10:13:04 -0300 Reply-To: Noeline Bridge Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Noeline Bridge Subject: CINDEX qery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm sure that someone who uses CINDEX can help me delete an abbreviation. A few weeks ago, I defined an abbreviation for New Brunswick, using the word new. In my current index, I need to use the word "new" in a subheading, and New Brunswick keeps on popping into that space! I have tried several times to delete my abbreviation according to the instructions on p. 41-42 of my CINDEX 6.0 for DOS manual; that is, I have typed ABBREVIATE new, and pressed Enter to receive the display new: New Brunswick. Then I have pressed shift-delete and enter. All in vain. I have tried placing the cursor at the beginning and end of New Brunswick, and several other things, but just can't get rid of it! There's something I'm not doing, or that I've not set up right in the first place. Noeline Bridge BRIDGEWORK nbridge@nb.sympatico.ca 295 Highfield Street Moncton, NB E1C 5R4 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 08:31:55 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: (Veterinary) medical terminology Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I was always dismayed to hear a veterinarian or a veterinary technician say, of an animal, "He/She is painful" when an animal was in pain. That sounded so odd to me. But by now, I've heard it enough times in vet clinics--and on Animal Planet!--to accept the fact that this is the correct terminology, as used in the profession. There's always something new to learn! Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@digitalexp.com), Tallahassee, Florida, USA Sig line under construction. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 09:31:26 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Scanner In-Reply-To: <199909030740.DAA09113@bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Dick, does OmniPage Pro have a "learning" mode? I have TextBridge Pro, and > it can learn to recognize any character or symbol it initially screws up, > even if the character is part of a string. You set the thing to learning > mode, scan your text, and then it works something like a spell checker: it > stops at questionable text and you have an opportunity to type in the > proper interpretation. I haven't worked with OmniPage Pro, but I'd be > surprised if any of the new OCR software doesn't have this feature > somewhere. I haven't looked for a learning mode yet, but I suspect it wouldn't work because OmniPage treats *every* locator as a separate unrecognized string. Thus it would conceivably learn several thousand new strings and still not be any smarter than when it started. If it was only stumbling on the percent sign by itself, I would be more optimistic. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 06:14:36 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: need help in medical terminology In-Reply-To: <019601bef58c$d0d50300$1d5910d0@colfaxgp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" As often, Carol, thank-you for sending out good sense. At 05:47 PM 9/2/99 -0400, you wrote: >-----Original Message----- >From: Diane Brenner >>I, too, hate the ever-increasing tendency to convert nouns into verbs -- >>"credentialed" and "credentialling" are two particularly odorous examples, >but >>the process is creeping into respectable use: "networking," for example. > >I don't think the tendency is "ever-increasing." Nouns have been turned into >verbs, and vice versa, for as long as English has been around. For example, >according to the OED Supplement, "network" has been used as a verb for over >100 years, and "credentialed" has also been used for over 100 years. > >Carol Kennedy > > Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 09:33:43 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Indexing in the future In-Reply-To: <199909030709.DAA04967@bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > D. Teddy Diggs presents us with what one writer for > Business Week sees > as the future of indexing. This is what Business Week wastes their ink > and paper on? A 300 MB hard disk will store a month's worth of > experiences and thoughts? Maybe for a clam but certainly not a human. > Assuming that Teddy's summary is accurate, this article > belongs in Omni, > not a serious business journal. And let's not overlook the question of how recording external events translates into recording an individual's thoughts and feelings about the events. And then *automatically* indexing the thoughts and feelings. Maybe Indexicon will finally come into its own? Dick ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 10:13:04 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: Re: Need word processor/proofreader (no indexing, sorry) In-Reply-To: <37CFC612.FF58D397@mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is very odd; no idea what might cause it. Sorry I jumped on Chris. A. > -----Original Message----- > From: Indexer's Discussion Group > [mailto:INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf > Of J Flenner > Sent: Friday, September 03, 1999 8:59 AM > To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > Subject: Re: Need word processor/proofreader (no > indexing, sorry) > > > Ann Norcross wrote: > > > Chris, if you're not interested, that's fine. But why > > discourage others from doing it? > > > > Ann > > This is very strange! > > 1. Chris (felinitas) is *not* *subscribed* to the > indexer's list. > > 2. I forwarded your post to her (by clicking on > "forward"), asking her > if she thought *I* would do well to ask to do the > job you emailed the > list about. > > 3. She responded to my forwarded post to her, > using "reply" on her > system. > > 4. Her replies to *me* (both of them!!) were > sent to the indexer's > list. > > 5. AND, the indexer's list did *not* reject her > posts, even tho' she's > not subscribed!! > > So please, Ann and other list members, forgive > her--she knoweth not what > she did to make this happen!! and she *certainly* > was not discouraging > anyone on the list, except me, from asking about the job!! > > Just out of curiosity, are there any email-system > mavens who see what > happened? Does she have some email preference set > to "reply" to the > sender of a *forwarded* message, instead of to > the actual sender (she > uses outlook express)? Is the indexer's list > server not rejecting > unsubscribed senders?? > > I must say, I LOL'ed at her panic when I told her > what was happening to > her posts intended for me! But at least I > received them--thru the list!! > > Jackie F. > > [Chris, if the Force sends this to you, do *not* "reply."] > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 09:16:39 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: CINDEX qery Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" On 9/3/1999 8:13 AM Noeline Bridge wrote (in part): >I'm sure that someone who uses CINDEX can help me delete an abbreviation. A >few weeks ago, I defined an abbreviation for New Brunswick, using the word >new. In my current index, I need to use the word "new" in a subheading, and >New Brunswick keeps on popping into that space! > >I have tried several times to delete my abbreviation according to the >instructions on p. 41-42 of my CINDEX 6.0 for DOS manual; that is, I have >typed ABBREVIATE new, and pressed Enter to receive the display new: New >Brunswick. Then I have pressed shift-delete and enter. All in vain. I have >tried placing the cursor at the beginning and end of New Brunswick, and >several other things, but just can't get rid of it! > >There's something I'm not doing, or that I've not set up right in the first >place. I had a similar problem a while back with "co" for "Company." I think I finally gave up on it. Try this, though. Delete the abbreviation, quit Cindex, shut the computer down, and then bring it back up. That *might* work. Or it might not. Good luck! Craig Brown The Last Word Indexing Services (314) 352-9094 lastword@mindspring.com lastword@i1.net www.i1.net/~lastword ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 09:49:40 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Willa MacAllen Subject: Re: Sample contract In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:23 AM 9/3/99 -0400, you wrote: >Here's my contract for what it's worth. Hi All: Thanks, Do Mi and Rachel for your sample contracts. I've printed them out for my Index-l file, which is filling up fast with all the helpful suggestions everyone has made. Willa (recuperating from a very energetic contra dance last evening....the dances were fairly easy contra dance patterns but were full of high energy....) Willa MacAllen Information Organizer MacAllen's Information Services Boston ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 09:40:10 -0400 Reply-To: riomaro@riofrancos.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Maro Riofrancos Subject: Re: Scanner In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit training mode allows you to train it to recognize individual problematic characters. I haven't come across a situation where an entire string (I assume you mean "word") was unrecognized because an individual character was unrecognized. -----Original Message----- From: Indexer's Discussion Group [mailto:INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Richard Evans Sent: Friday, September 03, 1999 9:31 AM To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Subject: Re: Scanner > Dick, does OmniPage Pro have a "learning" mode? I have TextBridge Pro, and > it can learn to recognize any character or symbol it initially screws up, > even if the character is part of a string. You set the thing to learning > mode, scan your text, and then it works something like a spell checker: it > stops at questionable text and you have an opportunity to type in the > proper interpretation. I haven't worked with OmniPage Pro, but I'd be > surprised if any of the new OCR software doesn't have this feature > somewhere. I haven't looked for a learning mode yet, but I suspect it wouldn't work because OmniPage treats *every* locator as a separate unrecognized string. Thus it would conceivably learn several thousand new strings and still not be any smarter than when it started. If it was only stumbling on the percent sign by itself, I would be more optimistic. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 09:47:30 -0400 Reply-To: riomaro@riofrancos.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Maro Riofrancos Subject: Re: CINDEX qery Comments: To: Noeline Bridge In-Reply-To: <082101bef60e$1d790cc0$84a0b3cf@6916cjm7a531> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cindex for Windows creates a separate abbreviation file, named abbr.cbr, which you can edit in Notepad. I would guess Cindex for DOS does something similar, and you could edit the file directly in a text editor. In any case, I would suggest never using a common word (or an uncommon one for that matter) as an abbreviation. -----Original Message----- From: Indexer's Discussion Group [mailto:INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Noeline Bridge Sent: Friday, September 03, 1999 9:13 AM To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Subject: CINDEX qery I'm sure that someone who uses CINDEX can help me delete an abbreviation. A few weeks ago, I defined an abbreviation for New Brunswick, using the word new. In my current index, I need to use the word "new" in a subheading, and New Brunswick keeps on popping into that space! I have tried several times to delete my abbreviation according to the instructions on p. 41-42 of my CINDEX 6.0 for DOS manual; that is, I have typed ABBREVIATE new, and pressed Enter to receive the display new: New Brunswick. Then I have pressed shift-delete and enter. All in vain. I have tried placing the cursor at the beginning and end of New Brunswick, and several other things, but just can't get rid of it! There's something I'm not doing, or that I've not set up right in the first place. Noeline Bridge BRIDGEWORK nbridge@nb.sympatico.ca 295 Highfield Street Moncton, NB E1C 5R4 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 10:02:20 -0400 Reply-To: riomaro@riofrancos.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Maro Riofrancos Subject: Re: paper pile-up In-Reply-To: <3c993d8d.24ffeeca@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The solution to the paper problem is...not to use paper at all. Authors don't use paper, designers have long ago weaned themselves from it. Why are indexers still mired in papyrus? -----Original Message----- From: Indexer's Discussion Group [mailto:INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of JPerlman@AOL.COM Sent: Thursday, September 02, 1999 11:16 AM To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Subject: paper pile-up Kara, Re: where to store those page proofs that one has to hang on to "just a little longer": I have a corner of a shelf in one of the steel storage shelving units in our garage. Since it's 18 inches deep, I can go 2-deep in stacks on page proof. I just have one little corner -- wide enough for a stack of papers, and another in front of it. When the stacks are full, up to the top of the shelf, enough time has gone by so that they get tossed. For immediate needs, I have a Rubbermaid tall wastebasket in a corner of my office. The "don't need these now" page proofs get tossed in there when I'm done with them. Again, they are there should an immediate need arise to check something out, because it takes about 2 weeks to fill it up and then get emptied, so the proofs are there for 2 weeks should the publisher have questions. Those systems work for me. I am constantly amazed at HOW MUCH paper I recycle!! Between 2 newspapers a day (local and NYTimes) and work stuff, it really adds up. Have a Happy Labor Day, everybody. That's what it will be for me -- a Labor day! TTFN Janet Perlman SOUTHWEST INDEXING ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 10:50:17 -0400 Reply-To: clmonroe Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: clmonroe Subject: Re: need help in medical terminology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Why get hung up on who uses language correctly and who doesn't? The beauty of language is that it belongs to everyone. Language is a living thing. I believe that correctness is quite relative to culture and to context. I don't want to get into the prescriptive vs descriptive debate, but "mistakes" and creativity in usage give us better and more useful ways of communicating. I commend anybody who reaches out to get perspective on terms they are not familiar with. It shows respect for someone else's linguistic frame of reference. ----- Original Message ----- From: Carol Kennedy To: Sent: Friday, September 03, 1999 8:09 AM Subject: Re: need help in medical terminology > -----Original Message----- > From: Rachel Rice > > >Capitation, capitated, capped limits, yuck. Who thought that one up? > > What is it that you object to about these words? They're not neologisms; > "cap" has been a verb in English for more than 500 years; "capitate" has > been a verb for more than 300 years; "capitation" is fairly new, at just > over 100 years. Is it their extended use by the health care industry that > you object to? English (and I suspect other languages, but I don't know the > history of others) has always taken existing words and applied them to new > cases. > > Carol Kennedy ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 11:48:10 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: page proofs; AND index drafts and files MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > When it comes to page proofs, I keep pp for all jobs until I'm paid for the > job. I store the pp underneath my printer table. After payment is received, I > recycle the pp several ways: as printer paper, as craft paper for my kids > (very high demand there!), or through the county (don't throw away the boxes > those big jobs come in! They're perfect for putting those pp in for the > recycling guys to pick up). Pilar's uses of old page proofs are exactly what I meant when I wrote "scrap paper." I use the back of old (+3 months or more) page proofs to type out anything that doesn't have to be on "perfect" paper -- especially drafts of the index, or anything that is not leaving the house. My daughter uses them to draw on, cut up, practice writing her letters, etc. I'm quite careful about not spreading old proofs around. Occasionally a drawing may go to a grandparent, but other than that, the proofs stay in my house until they go to the recycler. In other words, I recycle them twice, once by using them, and the second time in the conventional manner. This not only saves paper, but saves me money! Incidentally, I use those stackable in/out boxes to store fresh printer paper and old-proof printer paper, so I can switch from one to the other quickly, and both kinds are readily available. I'm curious as to how many of you print out interim drafts of the index. I have gotten into the habit of printing out a "pre-edit" draft as soon as I've entered all the material. If I find I'm making a lot of changes, I print out a "mid-edit" draft as well. I label these and stick them in the project file. Several times, the printed draft has saved me time and frustration when I've deleted something accidentally, have gone one step to far to Undo it, and don't want to take time to open the backup file separately. I grab the draft, check the entry, re-enter the missing information, and voila! I also use drafts to take an index with me to edit "on the road," and enter the changes I've marked once I get back. After the publisher has accepted the index, I throw out all the draft indexes. I keep files on each index I've done. Into the file go correspondence about the project from the publisher, a print-out of the finished index, the cover letter and any notes or emails I sent to the publisher about the index or the proofs, and a copy of the invoice. Another copy of the invoice goes in my Invoice file for the year, and I add the check stub when it has been paid. The idea of saving title pages is a good one; I think I'll start adding them to my project files. I've been organizing the files by publisher and date, since I seem to remember the publisher more easily than the title. Like Elliot (I think it was), I keep floppies of the final indexes. Unlike Elliot, I keep them indefinitely. Because this will eventually cause a storage problem, I'm considering moving them to CD-ROM. I should be able to fit a year's worth of indexes for a steady client onto one CD (what a great excuse for getting a CD-ROM writer! Add a scanner to scan correspondence from the publisher, and I could almost eliminate the need for paper files. Hmmm!) I'd be interested in hearing how other people organize their files (paper and electronic), and what they do and don't keep. Kara Pekar Wordsmith Indexing Services jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 11:56:07 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diane Brenner Subject: Re: need help in medical terminology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit True. . .but, language, is also a vehicle for communication and the sharing of ideas. If we accept all linguistic diversity as equally good and all use idiosyncratic terms of reference, then it will be hard to talk with each other, let alone construct usable indexes. Language does change constantly, and I am a-gin' oppressive (cultural, political, or grammatical) rigidity, nonethless, we need to [at least try to] understand each other. While the acceptance of increasingly fragmented professional jargons is in many cases useful and elucidating; it can, unfortunately, also add to what I consider ever-greater dissociation and obfuscation in communications. Diane http://ww.dianebrennner.com clmonroe wrote: > Why get hung up on who uses language correctly and who doesn't? The beauty > of language is that it belongs to everyone. Language is a living thing. I > believe that correctness is quite relative to culture and to context. I > don't want to get into the prescriptive vs descriptive debate, but > "mistakes" and creativity in usage give us better and more useful ways of > communicating. I commend anybody who reaches out to get perspective on terms > they are not familiar with. It shows respect for someone else's linguistic > frame of reference. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Carol Kennedy > To: > Sent: Friday, September 03, 1999 8:09 AM > Subject: Re: need help in medical terminology > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Rachel Rice > > > > >Capitation, capitated, capped limits, yuck. Who thought that one up? > > > > What is it that you object to about these words? They're not neologisms; > > "cap" has been a verb in English for more than 500 years; "capitate" has > > been a verb for more than 300 years; "capitation" is fairly new, at just > > over 100 years. Is it their extended use by the health care industry that > > you object to? English (and I suspect other languages, but I don't know > the > > history of others) has always taken existing words and applied them to new > > cases. > > > > Carol Kennedy ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:18:19 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: TShere7566@AOL.COM Subject: Contracts with authors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks, Do Mi, for posting your author contract. I've worked twice so far directly with authors, and have not used an actual contract. What I do is send them a fax or email message with my terms spelled out in it--they don't need to sign & return it, but at least it's clear they knew up front what I expected. It's somewhat similar to Do Mi's contract, although I don't ask for a deposit. But there are two other points I include in my terms that I think are important. I word them something like this: "I'm happy to discuss any ideas or concerns you have about the indexing before I begin work, and I will certainly want to ask you some questions about it when I've seen the pages, but my rates do not include making major editing changes once I've finished the index. (Of course I will make corrections without further charges, should they be necessary.)" [I'm trying to give them the idea here that I don't want ongoing consultations with them while I'm working, and the finished index is not subject to discussion and revision. Anybody have a better way to put this?] and "If there are changes to the pages after I have begun work on the index which require that I revise my work, I will bill you for the additional time at the rate of $___ per hour. Changes to pages after I begin work may make it impossible for me to deliver the index at the time originally agreed upon." I'm about to embark on a third project working directly with an author (on Italian opera, which will be fun). My experiences so far have been good ones, although it's clear author projects do take a bit more time, because you've got to do some hand-holding. Therese Shere Healdsburg, California ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 09:51:05 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Irene Struthers Rush Subject: Re: need help in medical terminology Comments: To: Indexer's Discussion Group In-Reply-To: <37CFEF97.23599E74@javanet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" dear diane, because i was impressed with your comments below, i wanted to look at your web page. however, when i clicked on the url below, i noticed that it only says "ww." rather than "www." of course i added the 3rd "w"; however, i thought you'd like to know about the error. your web page is very impressive - as is your background. do you do your embedded indexes in framemaker? i have just started the usda class, but have been creating indexes for the computer books i write in framemaker for two years. i hope to get out of computer books and into such things as travel and food/wine books when i finish the class. how do you attract such a diverse clientele? i am writing from my job, but will be leaving today at noon. please send any reply to my home e-address: istruthe@slonet.org. thanks and best wishes, irene >True. . .but, language, is also a vehicle for communication and the sharing of >ideas. If we accept all linguistic diversity as equally good and all use >idiosyncratic terms of reference, then it will be hard to talk with each >other, >let alone construct usable indexes. > >Language does change constantly, and I am a-gin' oppressive (cultural, >political, or grammatical) rigidity, nonethless, we need to [at least try to] >understand each other. While the acceptance of increasingly fragmented >professional jargons is in many cases useful and elucidating; it can, >unfortunately, also add to what I consider ever-greater dissociation and >obfuscation in communications. > >Diane >http://ww.dianebrennner.com > > > > > >clmonroe wrote: > >> Why get hung up on who uses language correctly and who doesn't? The beauty >> of language is that it belongs to everyone. Language is a living thing. I >> believe that correctness is quite relative to culture and to context. I >> don't want to get into the prescriptive vs descriptive debate, but >> "mistakes" and creativity in usage give us better and more useful ways of >> communicating. I commend anybody who reaches out to get perspective on terms >> they are not familiar with. It shows respect for someone else's linguistic >> frame of reference. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Carol Kennedy >> To: >> Sent: Friday, September 03, 1999 8:09 AM >> Subject: Re: need help in medical terminology >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Rachel Rice >> > >> > >Capitation, capitated, capped limits, yuck. Who thought that one up? >> > >> > What is it that you object to about these words? They're not neologisms; >> > "cap" has been a verb in English for more than 500 years; "capitate" has >> > been a verb for more than 300 years; "capitation" is fairly new, at just >> > over 100 years. Is it their extended use by the health care industry that >> > you object to? English (and I suspect other languages, but I don't know >> the >> > history of others) has always taken existing words and applied them to new >> > cases. >> > >> > Carol Kennedy ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 10:26:52 -0700 Reply-To: indexer@ibm.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Sherry L. Smith" Subject: contracts with authors, editors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Therese said-- > [I'm trying to give them the idea here that I don't want ongoing > consultations with them while I'm working, and the finished index is not > subject to discussion and revision. Anybody have a better way to put this?] The phrases listed below are the ones I include in my contracts with authors or my e-mail cover letter that travels with the delivered index. The more formal phrase goes in contracts and the other two are used with first time editors. I select the one that matches our relationship and my assessment of their experience with indexes. I chose to concentrate on "the problem with the index if changes are made" rather than the payment issue. So far, I have been fortunate. The authors I have worked with have treated me as a professional expert and have not tried to micromanage the index. "The delivered index will be considered a final product. If any changes are considered, they must be discussed with the indexer first to ensure the integrity of the structure of the index." "Please contact me before any changes are made so that the integrity and structure of the index are maintained." "If changes are considered for the index, please contact me first so that I can assist. The index can be damaged by unplanned edits." Sherry Sherry L Smith INDEXING SERVICES 63505 Bridle Lane Bend, OR 97701 541 382 6414 (voice & fax) indexer@ibm.net President of Pacific Northwest Chapter/American Society of Indexers 1999-2000 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 13:42:27 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: need help in medical terminology Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The URL for Diane's page should be: http://www.dianebrenner.com Good comments on language--reminds me of what happens with tribalism (don't flame me for using that word) without a common language. Even though colonialism was in many ways a devastating thing for the peoples of Africa and elsewhere, at least the languages of the colonizers (chiefly the British and the French) made it possible for people speaking different languages to communicate with one another. Example still pertinent: West Africa. Cynthia At 11:56 AM 9/3/99 -0400, Diane Brenner wrote: >True. . .but, language, is also a vehicle for communication and the sharing of >ideas. If we accept all linguistic diversity as equally good and all use >idiosyncratic terms of reference, then it will be hard to talk with each other, >let alone construct usable indexes. > >Diane >http://ww.dianebrennner.com ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen, MS, MA, MLIS Bertelsen Indexing and Editorial Services Specialities: Food History, Nutrition, Cookbooks, Gastronomy cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.usit.com/cbertel/ Long before institutionalized religions came along--and temples and churches--there was an unquestioned recognition that what goes on in a kitchen is holy. Cooking involves an enormously rich coming together of the fruits of the earth with the inventive genius of the human being. ---Laurel Robertson--- ****************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:05:11 -0700 Reply-To: Bonny.McLaughlin@cgu.edu Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bonny McLaughlin Organization: cgs.edu Subject: ASI So-Cal amended announcement--with price! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Learn about Indexing of Art and Tour the Huntington! The Huntington, San Marino, California Saturday, October 2, 1999 10:00 to 3:00 Our speakers will be Linda Zoeckler, Head of the Huntington's Art Reference Library, and Brooke Henderson, Reference Specialist at the Getty Research Institute. They will describe for us the many uses to which they put indexes to works of art, explain the difficulties they experience in using such indexes, and suggest how to improve them. Our day will begin with a two-hour tour of the Huntington Library, conducted by Linda Zoeckler. At noon, we'll have lunch (included in the price) and then we'll have our presentation on art indexes. The conclusion of the day will be a tour of the Art Reference Library, which will conclude in time for you to browse the Museum Book and Gift Shop or a portion of the Huntington Gardens. To register, send your check (payable to ASI-SoCal) for $25 ($35 for nonmembers), plus the Registration Form that follows, to the address below by September 25th. Sorry, but no registrations can be accepted after September 25th, nor can you register at the door. We know this may seem a bit arbitrary to some, but because we must arrange for facilities and lunches, we must have a firm count a week in advance. ***************************************************************************** HUNTINGTON LIBRARY TOUR AND PRESENTATION ON ART INDEXES Please register me for the October 2nd ASI-SoCal meeting at the Huntington Library. Enclosed is my check for $______.. Name___________________________________ Address___________________________________ ___________________________________ Phone___________________________________ E-Mail Address___________________________ My box lunch preference (includes side salad of the day, seasonal fresh fruit cup, pickle spear, two cookies, iced tea or soda): ______Ham on rye with lettuce and tomato ______Chicken salad on sourdough with lettuce and tomato ______Jack cheese on wheat with lettuce, tomato, avocado and sprouts Send to: Anne Leach 78240 Bonanza Drive Palm Desert, CA 92211-1208 ***************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 20:31:50 +0100 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Re: medical terminology etc In-Reply-To: <002701bef61b$a486cc40$3e8baccf@01lwj> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > communicating. I commend anybody who reaches out to get perspective on > terms they are not familiar with. It shows respect for someone else's > linguistic frame of reference. It works both ways - it is up to the communicator to be understood, as well. On the other hand, medical terminology used to be used *not* to be understood by the patient, e.g. "Koch's" for tuberculosis. How much this tradition accounts for obscurity in medical writing might be an interesting question. Regards _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 13:51:03 -0700 Reply-To: Julie Shawvan Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Shawvan Subject: Re: paper pile-up MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maro Riofrancos wrote: >The solution to the paper problem is...not to use paper at all. Authors >don't use paper, designers have long ago weaned themselves from it. Why are >indexers still mired in papyrus? Yes, but how do you thoroughly edit an index when it requires you to look simultaneously at three locations in the page proofs and four locations in the index draft? The FIND command will not always get what you need here. That's why I do much of my index editing on paper. Julie Shawvan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 17:33:57 -0400 Reply-To: riomaro@riofrancos.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Maro Riofrancos Subject: Re: paper pile-up Comments: To: Julie Shawvan In-Reply-To: <009201bef64e$551b7f60$cff8a9ce@0xjju> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit two large monitors, multiple windows, split windows, pattern-matching searches. -----Original Message----- From: Indexer's Discussion Group [mailto:INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Julie Shawvan Sent: Friday, September 03, 1999 4:51 PM To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Subject: Re: paper pile-up Maro Riofrancos wrote: >The solution to the paper problem is...not to use paper at all. Authors >don't use paper, designers have long ago weaned themselves from it. Why are >indexers still mired in papyrus? Yes, but how do you thoroughly edit an index when it requires you to look simultaneously at three locations in the page proofs and four locations in the index draft? The FIND command will not always get what you need here. That's why I do much of my index editing on paper. Julie Shawvan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 17:48:42 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dalindex@AOL.COM Subject: Re: page proofs; AND index drafts and files MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/3/99 10:54:40 AM EST, jkpekar@CROSSLINK.NET writes: << I'm curious as to how many of you print out interim drafts of the index. I have gotten into the habit of printing out a "pre-edit" draft as soon as I've entered all the material. If I find I'm making a lot of changes, I print out a "mid-edit" draft as well. >> Kara, This is my first year indexing, so it may be due to my limited experience, but I print drafts and edit from them. Depending on the length of the book, I might print a draft half-way through and edit. It helps me identify key topics for the rest of the book. Do you more experienced indexers edit from drafts along the way or does this become unnecessary as time goes on? Debbie ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 19:49:48 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandra Studebaker Subject: Fw: need help in medical terminology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > From: > To: Indexer's Discussion Group > Subject: Re: need help in medical terminology > Date: Friday, September 03, 1999 7:46 PM > > To all: > Close, but not quite. Capitation refers to the annual fee paid to a health > care provider for each participant (consumer) in a prepaid health care > plan. > From one who has been a librarian in the health care arena for 25 years. > > ---------- > > From: Rachel Rice > > To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > > Subject: Re: need help in medical terminology > > Date: Friday, September 03, 1999 8:27 AM > > > > Peg, here's a word you may find, and just adore: capitated. It has to do > > with the amount of payment Medicaid is willing to give to an individual. > > Capitation, capitated, capped limits, yuck. Who thought that one up? Anne > > Boleyn in the afterlife? > > > > Rae > > > > Rachel Rice > > Directions Unlimited Desktop Services > > Indexing, editing, proofreading > > http://homepages.together.net/~racric > > racric ICQ 31476947 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 19:40:46 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: need help in medical terminology Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" My wife does medical transcription and I hear her begin many reports with a statement like, "The patient John Doe presented." It means he showed up. Was present. Presented himself. "Presented" is used as an intransitive verb and is perfectly understandable to those within the medical community. Craig Brown The Last Word Indexing Services (314) 352-9094 lastword@mindspring.com lastword@i1.net www.i1.net/~lastword ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 22:15:46 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: page proofs; AND index drafts and files MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara, I too print interim drafts and edit as I go. I mark pages, and then do data entry every few chapters, or in bigger chunks if the book lends itself to that. I find that as the index develops, I may change my ideas about how to do things. This technique eliminates the need for a big editing job at the end of the index. And you're right. It also provides back-up in case an entry or entries are inadvertently deleted or changed. I don't keep those interim printouts once the job is sent in. I treat them as part of the work process, and they go into recycle when the job is sent. Janet Perlman SOUTHWEST INDEXING ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 22:31:20 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Anne Day Subject: Re: Diskettes for publishers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>BUT my question is. . . (never having been involved in the publishing >>world) what will the publisher/editor want to DO exactly with the diskette >>I send in with a printed copy of the index. Will she print it out, and >>therefore it is important that it prints out perfectly (but why then send >>the hard copy)? Will she just import it into another file to be typeset so >>if it LOOKS OK on the screen it will BE OK? >>Thanks for the clarification. >>Naomi The publisher will import your index data into the desktop publishing program they use, then they'll apply the typestyle and size dictated by the design of the book. So the goal is to submit your index in a format that's generic enough to be interpreted properly by any of the major DTP programs while preserving necessary formatting like indents (as tabs), italics, boldface, etc. There's often an intermediate step in which the editor will open your file with a word-processing program instead of a DTP program, but the logic is the same. Generic but formatted. They don't want to have to look at the hard copy at all except to verify that the file from the disk looks right. Anne -- Anne Day, Indexer Specializing in Environmental and Plant Science topics ConTEXT Communications Holland, Pennsylvania contextcomm@att.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 22:59:11 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: need help in medical terminology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "The patient John Doe presented with" is a phrase used when citing initial complaints and/or symptoms of a patient. It is a standard shorthand phrase covering a variety of presenting circumstances, i.e, John Doe may present himself, or be presented by his parents if a child, or be presented by EMS if unconscious, etc. It, of course, sounds strange to non-medical personnel, but serves as an efficient means of communication nevertheless. Every field has its jargon, even indexing, as I believe someone noted earlier in this thread. Ann Truesdale > My wife does medical transcription and I hear her begin many reports with > a statement like, "The patient John Doe presented." It means he showed > up. Was present. Presented himself. "Presented" is used as an > intransitive verb and is perfectly understandable to those within the > medical community. > > Craig Brown > > The Last Word > Indexing Services > (314) 352-9094 > lastword@mindspring.com > lastword@i1.net > www.i1.net/~lastword ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 23:06:17 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: paper pile-up and recycling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eliot wrote: << By the way, even after I discard my copies of the page proofs (yes, I recycle them), I keep my computer files for the index. I hold on to them for at least six months on floppies unless there is a possibility of the book or manual being revised later, in which case I hold on to the files for at least five years. >> I keep mine (both Macrex and word processing files) forever. In my experience, it's impossible to predict which indexes will need an update, and I've had some come back for updates a lot longer than five years later--and been really happy to have that previous index! Do Mi Stauber ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 02:51:33 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elliot Linzer Subject: Re: paper pile-up and recycling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Do Mi wrote that she keeps her computer files forever in response to my saying that I keep most of my files for at least 6 months. Those books or manuals I expect to be revised I keep for five years. A few years ago I was called to index a revision of a book I had indexed 15 years earlier. The original was published in 1981, about two years before I was using a computer in my indexing work, so there were no computer files to save. It turns out that the book was so heavily revised that the old files would have been useless to me. Back when I indexed more computer manuals and books that I do now, I would save the files almost forever. It finally became clear that if a manual or computer book was to be revised, it was not likely to happen more than five years after the last edition. Textbooks are another matter. Some can go on forever, undergoing periodic revisions. Samuelson's "Economics" stayed in print for decades, especially after Samuelson won the first Noble Prize in economics. | Elliot Linzer | 43-05 Crommelin Street | Flushing, New York 11355 | (718) 353-1261 | elinzer@juno.com On Fri, 3 Sep 1999 23:06:17 EDT DStaub11@AOL.COM writes: > > > I keep mine (both Macrex and word processing files) forever. In my > experience, it's impossible to predict which indexes will need an update, and > I've had some come back for updates a lot longer than five years later--and > been really happy to have that previous index! > > Do Mi Stauber > << By the way, even after I discard my copies of the page proofs (yes, I > recycle them), I keep my computer files for the index. I hold on to them > for at least six months on floppies unless there is a possibility of the > book or manual being revised later, in which case I hold on to the files > for at least five years. >>> Elliot wrote: > << By the way, even after I discard my copies of the page proofs (yes, I > recycle them), I keep my computer files for the index. I hold on to them > for at least six months on floppies unless there is a possibility of the > book or manual being revised later, in which case I hold on to the files > for at least five years. >>> > << By the way, even after I discard my copies of the page proofs (yes, I > recycle them), I keep my computer files for the index. I hold on to them > for at least six months on floppies unless there is a possibility of the > book or manual being revised later, in which case I hold on to the files > for at least five years. >>> Eliot wrote: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 08:28:53 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pmauer@AOL.COM Subject: Re: medical terminology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Many thanks to everyone for sharing their insights. I really appreciate the help from the collective wisdom! Peg. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 09:54:55 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Ardith Ayotte, R.T." Subject: What about Literary Marketplace (LMP)? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01BEF6BB.8CE9C380" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BEF6BB.8CE9C380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Listmembers,=20 Yes, some of us are working, in my case marketing, on this "holiday" = week-end. We are going to have lots of rain, anyway, here on the East = Coast! So, it's working weather. I am wondering how many of you are signed up on the web for LMP? It is = $389 annually and really LOADED with marketing information. Is this = worthwile? Or should I spend my time sitting at the library taking = notes, addresses, 800 numbers from the chained-to-the-wall reference = copy. Is this a worthwhile write-off? OR, should I just purchase the = LMP about every 3-5 years, or so, to have on hand at home for those = lulls in indexing when I need to do more marketing? What think ye, list? Ardith Ayotte ABBA Index Services abbaindx@crosslink.net OR Index-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BEF6BB.8CE9C380 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Listmembers,
 
Yes, some of us are working, in my case marketing, = on this=20 "holiday" week-end.  We are going to have lots of rain, = anyway,=20 here on the East Coast!  So, it's working weather.
 
I am wondering how many of you are signed up on the = web for=20 LMP?  It is $389 annually and really LOADED with marketing=20 information.  Is this worthwile?  Or should I spend my time = sitting at=20 the library taking notes, addresses, 800 numbers from the = chained-to-the-wall=20 reference copy.  Is this a worthwhile write-off?  OR, should I = just=20 purchase the LMP about every 3-5 years, or so, to have on hand at home = for those=20 lulls in indexing when I need to do more marketing?
 
What think ye, list?
 
Ardith Ayotte
ABBA Index Services
OR Index-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMT= ON.EDU
------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BEF6BB.8CE9C380-- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 10:02:31 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Ardith Ayotte, R.T." Subject: Re: Diskettes for publishers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Anne, I am so glad to have this subject opened by someone. I am having an unusual "problem" with my saving to diskette. I use SKY and after I generate an index to WordPerfect, spell check it, make a few editing corrections/changes, I then use "save as" command to send it to "A" drive to my diskette - but in .rtf format, converted from the .wpd format of WordPerfect. BUT SOMETHING STRANGE HAPPENS. Although it was in Times New Roman in Word Perfect, when I open it to be sure it really is on the diskette, opening from A-drive to C-drive WordPerfect, it sometimes, BUT not always (?) shows up in Roman font, not Times New Roman. But, it says Times New, now, until I open the font choices category and discover that it is REALLY Roman (highlighted there on the list.) This is SO confusing and I don't know what I am doing to cause this. Anyone know? Assistance appreciated. Ardith Ayotte ABBA Index Services Index-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU or abbaindx@crosslink.net -----Original Message----- From: Anne Day To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Date: Friday, September 03, 1999 10:54 PM Subject: Re: Diskettes for publishers >>>BUT my question is. . . (never having been involved in the publishing >>>world) what will the publisher/editor want to DO exactly with the >diskette >>>I send in with a printed copy of the index. Will she print it out, >and >>>therefore it is important that it prints out perfectly (but why then >send >>>the hard copy)? Will she just import it into another file to be >typeset so >>>if it LOOKS OK on the screen it will BE OK? > >>>Thanks for the clarification. >>>Naomi > >The publisher will import your index data into the desktop publishing >program they use, then they'll apply the typestyle and size dictated by >the design of the book. So the goal is to submit your index in a format >that's generic enough to be interpreted properly by any of the major DTP >programs while preserving necessary formatting like indents (as tabs), >italics, boldface, etc. > >There's often an intermediate step in which the editor will open your >file with a word-processing program instead of a DTP program, but the >logic is the same. Generic but formatted. They don't want to have to >look at the hard copy at all except to verify that the file from the >disk looks right. > >Anne > >-- >Anne Day, Indexer >Specializing in Environmental and Plant Science topics >ConTEXT Communications >Holland, Pennsylvania >contextcomm@att.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 11:22:43 -0300 Reply-To: Noeline Bridge Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Noeline Bridge Subject: Re: CINDEX query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you, Craig and Maro, for your suggestions. I must add, with some chagrin, that this morning I tried to delete my offending abbreviation, following the instructions in the CINDEX 6.0 manual (shift-delete), and it worked! Why it didn't yesterday, I don't know: I swear on stacks of Bibles and mothers' graves that I followed the same instructions correctly. Nevertheless, Maro made a point I'll be following in future: don't compose an abbreviation that is a word, common or uncommon. Noeline Bridge BRIDGEWORK nbridge@nb.sympatico.ca 295 Highfield Street Moncton, NB E1C 5R4 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 12:55:55 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: paper pile-up and recycling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Elliot wrote: << It finally became clear that if a manual or computer book was to be revised, it was not likely to happen more than five years after the last edition. Textbooks are another matter. Some can go on forever, undergoing periodic revisions. Samuelson's "Economics" stayed in print for decades, especially after Samuelson won the first Noble Prize in economics. >> Yes, I think we're talking about a field difference here. My books are social sciences and humanities textbooks and scholarly books. Sorry for not specifying. Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 12:56:53 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PilarW@AOL.COM Subject: page proofs, index editing, and organization MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara Pekar posted: "Incidentally, I use those stackable in/out boxes to store fresh printer paper and old-proof printer paper, so I can switch from one to the other quickly, and both kinds are readily available." Exactly. Same protocol in this office. However, due to storage space -- I *really* don't want to buy yet another filing cabinet! -- I don't keep as much stuff in my files. Final copies of indexes, for example, I don't store in hardcopy but only on the computer. I have files for all my clients, wherein I include paper clipped together all the papers (including correspondence and/or notes) for each job. (I do keep my logs, as well, which include pp for each job as it's worked on.) For really old jobs, I often eliminate repetitive documents and keep only summary pp. I've got a zip drive sitting here in a box on my desk that I'm going to install one of these days so that I can conflate all my old backup disks and those archive index files, as well. It's easy enough to recreate the index from the archive file. CD-ROM sounds like a great way to go, too. Otherwise, my 'storage' system seems pretty similar to yours. Oh, I should add that I rarely ever print draft copies of my indexes. I edit onscreen and I view my indexes in final format on my computer the entire time I am working on them. Occasionally I'll shift to draft view, for various reasons, but generally I look at them as if they were published or printed. Also, at this point I submit the majority of my work via e-mail, and am not that concerned with how it will look in manuscript form. happy indexing, Pilar ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------- L. Pilar Wyman * Wyman Indexing PilarW@aol.com Great Indexes for Great Books ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 13:24:48 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Blee811@AOL.COM Subject: Re: paper pile-up and recycling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/4/99 12:58:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, DStaub11@AOL.COM writes: << << It finally became clear that if a manual or computer book was to be revised, it was not likely to happen more than five years after the last edition. Textbooks are another matter. Some can go on forever, undergoing periodic revisions. Samuelson's "Economics" stayed in print for decades, especially after Samuelson won the first Noble Prize in economics. >> >> In business subjects at the publisher for whom I do most of my work, college textbooks are revised usually every 3 years; high school every 5 years. There are exceptions of course. And unsuccessful first editions are frequently not revised at all. Bill Lee ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 11:47:03 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lillian Ashworth Subject: Re: What about Literary Marketplace (LMP)? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Re: LMP Ardith asks: > Or should I spend my time sitting at the library taking notes, addresses, 800 numbers from the chained-to-the-wall reference copy. > Have you checked the stacks in your library? I found that while the current LMP copy is "chained" in the reference room, past copies are in the circulation stacks. Personal names may change but addresses don't often change from year to year. And, it's much easier to enter the material directly into the computer at home than writing notes in the library. Lillian Ashworth ashworth@pullman.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 11:49:19 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lillian Ashworth Subject: Re: page proofs, index editing, and organization Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Pilar notes: >Oh, I should add that I rarely ever print draft copies of my indexes. I edit >onscreen and I view my indexes in final format on my computer the entire time >I am working on them. Occasionally I'll shift to draft view, for various >reasons, but generally I look at them as if they were published or printed. >Also, at this point I submit the majority of my work via e-mail, and am not >that concerned with how it will look in manuscript form. > I found, after trying both paper draft editing and on-screen editing, that it saves time to edit on screen. It is very time consuming to input editing changes from the paper to the computer. But, I found a way to combine advantages of both methods, I work in Macrex but I'm sure it would work with other programs. I keep an .rtf file of my work at various stages visible in a minimized Word file. This is just for viewing; no editing work is done in it. But, it gives me a screen view of more of the index than Macrex allows, it helps when I accidentally delete something I shouldn't, and, if formatted as an index (2 columns, 9 point font), it "looks" like an index and I can see how things fit together in the final form. This method allows me to stay in Macrex until the very end of the process and the final editing in Word takes very little time. Lillian Ashworth ashworth@pullman.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 16:38:47 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Suellen G Kasoff Subject: Re: need help in medical terminology I, too, noticed this. When I put in the third w I still couldn't get it. Suellen On Fri, 3 Sep 1999 09:51:05 PDT Irene Struthers Rush writes: >dear diane, > >because i was impressed with your comments below, i wanted to look at >your >web page. however, when i clicked on the url below, i noticed that it >only >says "ww." rather than "www." of course i added the 3rd "w"; >however, i >thought you'd like to know about the error. > >your web page is very impressive - as is your background. do you do >your >embedded indexes in framemaker? i have just started the usda class, >but >have been creating indexes for the computer books i write in >framemaker for >two years. i hope to get out of computer books and into such things >as >travel and food/wine books when i finish the class. how do you >attract >such a diverse clientele? > >i am writing from my job, but will be leaving today at noon. please >send >any reply to my home e-address: istruthe@slonet.org. > >thanks and best wishes, > >irene > > >>True. . .but, language, is also a vehicle for communication and the >sharing of >>ideas. If we accept all linguistic diversity as equally good and all >use >>idiosyncratic terms of reference, then it will be hard to talk with >each >>other, >>let alone construct usable indexes. >> >>Language does change constantly, and I am a-gin' oppressive >(cultural, >>political, or grammatical) rigidity, nonethless, we need to [at least >try to] >>understand each other. While the acceptance of increasingly >fragmented >>professional jargons is in many cases useful and elucidating; it can, >>unfortunately, also add to what I consider ever-greater dissociation >and >>obfuscation in communications. >> >>Diane >>http://ww.dianebrennner.com >> >> >> >> >> >>clmonroe wrote: >> >>> Why get hung up on who uses language correctly and who doesn't? The >beauty >>> of language is that it belongs to everyone. Language is a living >thing. I >>> believe that correctness is quite relative to culture and to >context. I >>> don't want to get into the prescriptive vs descriptive debate, but >>> "mistakes" and creativity in usage give us better and more useful >ways of >>> communicating. I commend anybody who reaches out to get perspective >on terms >>> they are not familiar with. It shows respect for someone else's >linguistic >>> frame of reference. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Carol Kennedy >>> To: >>> Sent: Friday, September 03, 1999 8:09 AM >>> Subject: Re: need help in medical terminology >>> >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: Rachel Rice >>> > >>> > >Capitation, capitated, capped limits, yuck. Who thought that one >up? >>> > >>> > What is it that you object to about these words? They're not >neologisms; >>> > "cap" has been a verb in English for more than 500 years; >"capitate" has >>> > been a verb for more than 300 years; "capitation" is fairly new, >at just >>> > over 100 years. Is it their extended use by the health care >industry that >>> > you object to? English (and I suspect other languages, but I >don't know >>> the >>> > history of others) has always taken existing words and applied >them to new >>> > cases. >>> > >>> > Carol Kennedy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 13:46:07 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: cgweaver@MINDSPRING.COM Subject: Medical terminology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For help with medical terminology, visit MEDLINEplus at http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ There are seven different online medical dictionaries there, as well as access to Medline (via PubMed) and MeSH (Medical Subject Headings) -- key resources for any medical indexer. If the dictionaries (published or online) don't help, do a quick and dirty Pubmed search for the word you're looking for. Chances are you'll find the word you're looking for in the title and/or abstract of one or more articles in Medline. Retrieve the citation(s) to see what terms the NLM indexers used to describe the concept. This is a good way to verify if the term given in the material you're indexing is standard within the profession, and what terms are used for the concept in MEDLINE. For more information about medical indexing resources, check out ASI's new publication, _Indexing Specialties: Medicine_, which is available from ITI. (See the ASI web page for details.) Cynthia Bertelsen's chapter covers printed medical reference tools, and mine covers medical indexing resources on the Web. Regards, Carolyn Weaver Weaver Indexing Service Bellevue, WA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 17:02:51 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM Subject: inversion of Asian names revisited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I thought I had kept Sonsie's earlier message about this and the responses, but it seems I accidentally cleaned house a bit in my files. I am also dealing with a book on contemporary Asia and have to index a number of Asian names. I am pretty clear on most names, although some are throwing me off. Is anyone familiar with the inversion of Japanese names, like Kaname Askamatsu? Would you index it as is or invert it? I am dealing with names from China, Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, Japan, the Koreas, and the Philippines. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Leslie Frank Frank Words Indexing and Editing ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 14:44:56 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J. Naomi Linzer" Subject: Re: Diskettes for publishers In-Reply-To: <37D08472.3656025F@att.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Anne, Thanks for the concise explanation of what a publisher does with an indexer's disk. Does an indexer normally send a test diskette at her expense to a new client/ editor before completing the index to see if it can be opened preserving necessary formatting like indents (as tabs)? Naomi *****************************************************************************J. J. Naomi Linzer Indexing Services POB 1341 459 Redway Drive Redway, CA 95560 (707) 923-4361 jnlinzer@saber.net ****************************************************************************** http://www.asindexing.org <-- American Society of Indexers website. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 17:51:07 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli@AOL.COM Subject: Indonesian names MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear collective wisdom, I am indexing a collection of bibliographic essays on various musical subjects. In the section on Indonesia, two names are mentioned, Ki Wasitodipuro and Ki Nartosabdho. I assume that Ki is an honorific. Is this indeed the case? Should I invert and include in the heading, i.e. Nartosabdho, Ki Wasitodipuro, Ki Or should the name only be listed? Nartosabdho Wasitodipuro And how do I treat Pak Tjokro? Your help is appreciated. Fred Leise Between the Lines Indexing and Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 17:49:41 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Willa MacAllen Subject: Re: What about Literary Marketplace (LMP)? In-Reply-To: <001501bef6dd$13fb6380$184af6ce@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" OR, should I just purchase the LMP about every 3-5 years, or so, to have on hand at home for those lulls in indexing when I need to do more marketing? What think ye, list? Hi All: I was able to purchase a copy at half price when SLA was in Bostona couple of years ago and the publisher wanted to sell a copy from the previous year. Given the rapid changes in the publishing industry, you'd still have to call to find out the name and address of the correct contact person, but an older version of the directory is still useful for a few years. The other option, of course, is to purchase a copy of the latest edition of "The Writers Market" to use as a starting point. Willa (enjoying C-Span reruns of "About Books" this weekend....) Willa MacAllen Information Organizer MacAllen's Information Services Boston ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 12:34:32 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: job opp Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A friend and colleague of mine who is an editor in Southern California is looking to increase her referral base of indexers. If you meet the following requirements, please contact her directly at the snail mail address below, not to me nor to Index-L. > > 1. If you have indexed general nonfiction books >(e.g., biography, self-help, travel) for at least 2 years and/or completed >more than 20 indexes > > 2. If you live/work in Orange County or San Diego County, >California > >Please send your resume/bio and one complete sample index to Sharon >Goldinger, Publishing Services, 25381G Alicia Parkway, #1, Laguna Hills, >CA 92653. Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric racric ICQ 31476947 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 10:47:43 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Alan Walker Subject: Re: Indonesian names In-Reply-To: <581ac524.2502ee4b@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:51 pm 4/09/99 EDT, Fred Leise wrote: >I assume that Ki is an honorific. Is this >indeed the case? Should I invert and include in the heading, i.e. > >Nartosabdho, Ki >Wasitodipuro, Ki > >Or should the name only be listed? > >Nartosabdho >Wasitodipuro The National Library of Australia has: Nartosabdho, ki Wasitodipuro, ki I am not sure why lower case is used. Library of Congress has: Wasitodipuro, Ki >And how do I treat Pak Tjokro? I didn't find this in a quick check of the above catalogues, but on the analogy of similar names (e.g. Menggung, Pak), I think it should be inverted. Alan -- Alan Walker, Indexer President, Australian Society of Indexers 10 Rockwall Crescent Potts Point NSW 2011, Australia Tel: +61 2 9368 0174 +61 2 9368 0176 Fax: +61 2 9358 5593 Email: alan.walker@s054.aone.net.au ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 17:46:28 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J. Naomi Linzer" Subject: indexer for a broken heart In-Reply-To: <581ac524.2502ee4b@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, This book-on-tape just came through the library: NO FOND RETURN OF LOVE by Barbara Pym "Trying to mend a broken heart, Dulcie Mainwaring chose the rather unusual course of attending a conference for those who compile (sic) indexes and bibliographies. But it was there that she met Aylwin Forbes the intriguing figure who fainted while delivering his address on 'some problems of an editor'.. . . . . . . I must confess I did not check the ASI site to see if this one is already posted there. Has anyone read it? Naomi *****************************************************************************J. J. Naomi Linzer Indexing Services POB 1341 459 Redway Drive Redway, CA 95560 (707) 923-4361 jnlinzer@saber.net ****************************************************************************** http://www.asindexing.org <-- American Society of Indexers website. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 18:58:55 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Manjit Sahai Subject: Re: What about Literary Marketplace (LMP)? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi Ardith, In my personal opinion, I think buying LMP is worth every penny. I bought 1998 issue of LMP (both national and international editions) last year. They were on sale for half price at that particular time. I have been indexing since 1997 and during the first year I used to borrow it from local library, but for some strange it was always in high demand. I *never* sat in the library to note down the names and addresses of the publishers because I do not have that kind of patience. I have no intention to update it every year. It is too expensive. Moreover, there are also some on-line resources for getting names of publishers. You can get the information from there too. Good luck with marketing! MANJIT K. SAHAI Sterling, VA >From: "Ardith Ayotte, R.T." >Reply-To: "Indexer's Discussion Group" >To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU >Subject: What about Literary Marketplace (LMP)? >Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 09:54:55 -0400 > >Dear Listmembers, > >Yes, some of us are working, in my case marketing, on this "holiday" >week-end. We are going to have lots of rain, anyway, here on the East >Coast! So, it's working weather. > >I am wondering how many of you are signed up on the web for LMP? It is >$389 annually and really LOADED with marketing information. Is this >worthwile? Or should I spend my time sitting at the library taking notes, >addresses, 800 numbers from the chained-to-the-wall reference copy. Is >this a worthwhile write-off? OR, should I just purchase the LMP about >every 3-5 years, or so, to have on hand at home for those lulls in indexing >when I need to do more marketing? > >What think ye, list? > >Ardith Ayotte >ABBA Index Services >abbaindx@crosslink.net >OR Index-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 22:53:14 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: ROBJRICH@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Indexer for a Broken Heart MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Naomi Linzer wrote: >This book-on-tape just came through the library: >NO FOND RETURN OF LOVE by Barbara Pym >"Trying to mend a broken heart, Dulcie Mainwaring chose the rather unusual >course of attending a conference for those who compile (sic) indexes and >bibliographies. But it was there that she met Aylwin Forbes the intriguing >figure who fainted while delivering his address on 'some problems of an >editor'.. . . . . . . Wonderful! Sounds like the third runner-up of the annual Bulwer-Lytton bad writing contest. Dulcie Mainwaring? Aylwin Forbes? Poor, dear Alwin, always a delicate child, still suffers from the vapors.... The stresses of compiling [sic] indexes, no doubt! Alwyn was much too sensitive to enter a trade. Forbes and Mainwaring? Sounds like the next Republican ticket. Edward George Earle Bulwer-Lytton (1803-1873), who wrote many turgid Victorian novels, is immortalized by the enormous one-sentence paragraph starting with "It was a dark and stormy night....." And you thought that Snoopy was just making that up, eh? As many of you know, every year San Jose State University runs a bad writing contest dedicated to the memory of Bulwer-Lytton. The only requirements are that the entry be the beginning of a fictitious novel, that is is only one sentence, and that it be unutterably, deliciously, bad writing. My all-time favorite, published in the first anthology "It Was A Dark And Stormy Night" (Penguin, 1984), was this bit of immortal prose: "As she fell face down into the black muck of the mud-wrestling pit, her sweaty, three-hundred-pound opponent muttering soft curses in Latin on top of her, Sister Marie thought, :There is no doubt about it: the Pope has betrayed me!" Naturally, I couldn't resist entering the contest. Of my two entries, the one more suitable for this venue (but, alas, not a finalist) was: "As Lazar lay snoring heavily between the sodden sheets, his fleshy proboscis and ragged mustache giving him the appearance of a sated walrus, Gabrielle sat wearily in the kitchen, trying once again to assuage her frustration by pigging out on salami sandwiches, and reflected that lately her life had been going from bed to wurst." Ah, well.... BTW, I applaud Naomi's delicacy in inserting the [sic] in the text. At least I assume that she did that, and that it was not the author's [sic] joke. RR ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 00:03:55 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: Bulwer-Lytton OFF-TOPIC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Edward George Earle Bulwer-Lytton (1803-1873), who wrote many turgid > Victorian novels, is immortalized by the enormous one-sentence paragraph > starting with "It was a dark and stormy night....." And you thought that > Snoopy was just making that up, eh? Madeleine L'Engle, in one of her autobiographical works (_A Circle of Quiet_), relates that "The first sentence of the book is very carefully and deliberately that old warhorse: It was a dark and stormy night. Period. End of sentence. End of paragraph." And she was rather upset when the English editors changed it to: "It was a dark and stormy night in a small village in the United States." Sometimes, the old warhorses work better. :-) Kara Pekar Wordsmith Indexing Services jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 23:32:43 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: larryNOSPAMh123@HOME.COM Subject: Re: indexer for a broken heart Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" "J. Naomi Linzer" writes: >... >NO FOND RETURN OF LOVE by Barbara Pym > >... >I must confess I did not check the ASI site to see if this one is already >posted there. Has anyone read it? Yep, it is posted on the ASI site: http://www.asindexing.org/bibliog.htm#fict ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 00:53:41 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: ROBJRICH@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Dark and Stormy Night... (OFF TOPIC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara et al - Your posting about Madeleine L'Engle's use of that opening sentence is quite interesting. Thanks. But the original Bulwer-Lytton is quite different. The preface to "It Was a Dark and Stormy Night" (the first anthology of Bulwer-Lytton contest entries) quotes this as that first convoluted sentence: "It ws a dark and stormy night; the rain fell in torrents - except at occasional intervals, when it was checked by a violent gust of wind which swept up the streets (for it is in London that our scene lies), rattling along the housetops, and fiercely agitating the scanty flame of the lamps that struggled against the darkness." The compiler, Scott Rice, goes on to say: "Sometimes it is even worse. In the very next sentence a character is "wending his solitary way." Later in the novel a fellow lighting his pipe is described as "applying the Promethean spark to his tube," a glass of beer is "a nectarian beverage," and a bedroom is "a somnambular accommodation." Hence the annual Bulwer-Lytton bad writing contest! BTW, he also coined the phrase "the great unwashed" and was to first to observe that "the pen is mightier than the sword." The complete phrase is" "Beneath the rule of men entirely great, The pen is mightier than the sword." Seems to be true, even if criterion (1) rarely, if ever, is met... Bob ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 14:07:04 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Barbara Pym; medical reference books; Literary Marketplace Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit To those who haven't read any books by Barbara Pym: Please do so! Ms. Pym was a brilliant novelist with a marvelous sense of humor and an excellent understanding of people's quirks and silliness. She was also an indexer. I'd like to suggest another medical reference book, which one of my clients had recommended to me: _Dictionary of Medical Acronyms and Abbreviations_, compiled and edited by Stanley Jablonski, published by Hanley and Belfus in Philadelphia. The ISBN is 1-56053-052-9. I have the second edition, which was published in 1993; I don't know if it's the latest edition. I've found the book to be immensely helpful. I usually purchase _Literary Marketplace_ every year. It's not horrifically expensive, and for those who live in the US, it's certainly classifiable as a reference book/business expense/something similar for purposes of our friends at the IRS. I don't think I'd spring for the ultra-expensive, bells-and-whistles version of LMP. The print version has plenty of goodies as it is. Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (mailto:hazelcb@digitalexp.com), Tallahassee, Florida, USA In the 1500s most people got married in June because they took their yearly bath in May and were still smelling pretty good by June. However, they were starting to smell, so brides carried a bouquet to hide the odor.--Anonymous ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 13:04:25 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J. Naomi Linzer" Subject: Re: Indexer for a Broken Heart In-Reply-To: <1739a67a.2503351a@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >RR wrote: > >BTW, I applaud Naomi's delicacy in inserting the [sic] in the text. At least >I assume that she did that, and that it was not the author's [sic] joke. > 'Twas I who inserted the (sic). Naomi *****************************************************************************J. J. Naomi Linzer Indexing Services POB 1341 459 Redway Drive Redway, CA 95560 (707) 923-4361 jnlinzer@saber.net ****************************************************************************** http://www.asindexing.org <-- American Society of Indexers website. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 20:42:41 -0000 Reply-To: Christine Shuttleworth Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: Indexer for a broken heart MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Naomi Linzer wrote: From: Kathy Paparchontis Subject: sample indexes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, Busy week-end for me--working. short question--when you are requested to send a sample index, do you send one of your already published indexes (copy it from the book) or do you print one that is formatted on your computer? Thanks Kathleen Paparchontis K & D, Associates 916-344-3846 916-344-9564 (fax) kpaparchontis@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 18:31:55 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: ROBJRICH@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Sneering and flames (Off TOPIC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Christine et al - You wrote: >And why does Bob Richardson also sneer at 'compiling', and write: >Wonderful! Sounds like the third runner-up of the annual Bulwer-Lytton bad >writing contest. >In fact, far from being a contender for the bad writing contest, No Fond >Return of Love is a supreme example of good writing; it's perceptive and >funny. Please read it, everyone. Pace! pace! Please let's get a little perspective on this thing. Ms. Pym is a fine author, but I hope that we still may be allowed to spoof those names without being burned for heresy. Perhaps if I had "been [a] member of the Barbara Pym Society for a number of years" my threshold for teasing would be correspondingly low, but it seems likely that Ms. Pym's place in British literature is secure despite my comments. Christine (and all Pym devotees) please notice that I was addressing one paragraph taken completely out of context. I was NOT sneering at "compiling". That was merely an attempt to play on the word "sic". But I did feel (and do feel) that the names " Dulcie Mainwaring" and "Aylwin Forbes" are not everyday New England monikers. "Forbes and Mainwaring" still sounds to me like a pretty plausible Republican ticket. Also, the "intriguing figure who fainted while delivering his address on 'some problems of an editor' " does seem a trifle ...well... delicate? That paragraph might be a "supreme example of good writing", but its outstanding quality still eludes me. Note, again, that I am not speaking of the entire book, only of that paragraph. So please put the flame throwers away before this foolishness becomes serious. And, in addition to celebrating/defending Ms. Pym, try reading one of the anthologies of Bulwer-Lytton contest entries. They are wonderfully clever, and not one makes reference to No Fond Return of Love... I wonder how Hemingway or Mickey Spillane would have written that paragraph. . Hemingway: "Forbes grasped the lectern in both hands, and it felt good, and it was solid, and it was true. God! How he hated the name Aylwin! And he began to speak of Editing, and his words were good, and they were true, and they were without time or place. And then Dulcie came into the room and suddenly he could feel the heat of the bullring. And he remembered how she looked that day when Miguel delivered a flawless Matilda over the horns of the bull and the crowd shouted "Ole!" and Dulcie's heart broke with love.... And then the room turned around faster and faster and Forbes fell into the sun and the sounds of the Corrida faded ...." . Spillane: "Dulcie slithered into the room like a snake wearing sequins, wondering what in hell she was doing there with these creeps when all she wanted was to feel Rocco's hands on her body. Nobody turned around. "Damn!" she thought, "I must be losing my touch!" And then she remembered that they all were editors and indexers. Creeps. Somebody handed her a program and flashed her a toothy smile. Could've been a man or a woman. She took a seat in the front row and adjusted her dress. "Let the creep at the lectern see a little leg," she thought, "maybe it'll do him some good." The guy's name was Aylwin. Aylwin! He looked like an Aylwin - - about six-two and one hundred pounds soaking wet. Baggy tweed jacket, shirt he probably slept in, long hair - - "Oh God!," Dulcie thought, "Broken heart or no broken heart, I'm outta here. These guys are losers!" But before she could move, the creep at the lectern made a little gurgling sound, rolled his eyes back in his head, and then the stage came up and smacked him in the kisser.... Anybody care to try? Sorry to have offended anybody, but humor always is risky. My last word on this. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 19:49:54 -0300 Reply-To: Noeline Bridge Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Noeline Bridge Subject: Re: Indexer for a broken heart MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone read Barbara Pym's No Fond Return of Love? Yes, I have, and her other novels as well. A warm and witty novelist with an acute eye and ear for human foibles. Coincidentally, I indexed my first book, for two anthropologist authors, at the same time I read my first Pym, about a woman who works (as Barbara Pym did) for an anthropological society--the book was very funny on that subject. At the one (alas! so far, only one) Society of Indexers' conference I attended, in Bristol, England, we were entertained one evening by a video of No Fond Return of Love, the only Pym novel I hadn't read. I lost no time in getting it when I returned home. Noeline Bridge BRIDGEWORK nbridge@nb.sympatico.ca 295 Highfield Street Moncton, NB E1C 5R4 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 19:15:27 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dalindex@AOL.COM Subject: Re: sample indexes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/5/99 6:12:19 PM EST, Dalindex writes: << a message dated 9/5/99 4:59:27 PM EST, kpaparchontis@WORLDNET.ATT.NET writes: << short question--when you are requested to send a sample index, do you send one of your already published indexes (copy it from the book) or do you print one that is formatted on your computer? >> Kathleen, After getting permission from my editor, I copy the published index. Actually, part of it. I send what fits on one 81/2X11 piece of paper, printed on both sides. Debbie >> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 07:36:35 -0000 Reply-To: Christine Shuttleworth Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: Sneering and flames (off-topic) Comments: To: ROBJRICH@AOL.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Richardson wrote: <. Ms. Pym is a fine author, but I hope that we still may be allowed to spoof those names without being burned for heresy. Bob, you have got hold of the wrong end of the stick. I was not attempting to burn anyone for heresy, just trying to provide a little background. I feel you are overreacting just a trifle. The suggestion that long-term membership of the Barbara Pym Society implies a low threshold for teasing is so wide of the mark that I can't even take offence at it. And yes, I have read and enjoyed many past entries in the Bulwer-Lytton contest. I won't comment on your Pym 'spoofs' except to say that it is a little odd to spoof a writer you haven't actually read. Although you call her a fine author, I can't believe that you have read anything actually written by her. You wrote: Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mgendx@AOL.COM Subject: test - don't bother to open or read MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I told you not to bother with this message. I'm just testing my spam block to see if Index-L can get through. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 08:54:35 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mgendx@AOL.COM Subject: another test - just delete MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit first test didn't "take". I'm trying again. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 09:42:54 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: 10 Words That Don't Exist, But Should: (humor, related to indexing) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In line with the medical terminology discussion we have been having on INDEX-L, I thought I would share the following with you: 10 Words That Don't Exist, But Should: 1. AQUADEXTROUS (ak wa deks' trus) adj. Possessing the ability to turn the bathroom faucet on and off with your toes. 2. CARPERPETUATION (kar' pur pet u a shun) n. The act, when vacuuming, of running over a string or a piece of lint at least a dozen times, reaching over and picking it up, examining it, then putting it back down to give the vacuum one more chance. 3. DISCONFECT (dis kon fekt') v. To sterilize the piece of candy you dropped on the floor by blowing on it, assuming this will somehow 'remove' all the germs. 4. ELBONICS (el bon' iks) n. The actions of two people maneuvering for one armrest in a movie theater (airplane). 5. FRUST (frust) n. The small line of debris that refuses to be swept onto the dust pan and keep backing a person across the room until he finally decides to give up and sweep it under the rug. 6. LACTOMANGULATION (lak' to man guy lay' shun) n. Manhandling the "open here" spout on a milk container so badly that one has to resort to the 'illegal' side. 7. PEPPIER (pehp ee ay') n The waiter at a fancy restaurant whose sole purpose seems to be walking around asking diners if they want ground pepper. 8. PHONESIA (fo nee' zhuh) n. The affliction of dialing a phone number and forgetting whom you were calling just as they answer. 9. PUPKUS (pup'kus) n. The moist residue left on a window after a dog presses its nose to it. 10. TELECRASTINATION (tel e kras tin ay' shun) n. The act of always letting the phone ring at least twice before you pick it up, even when you're only six inches away It never ceases to amaze me that people have time to come up with these sorts of things, but I'm glad somebody can do it! Cynthia (who is laboring on Labor Day to move into a new office and, in the process, is creating a huge paper pile for the recycling center) ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen, MS, MA, MLIS Bertelsen Indexing and Editorial Services Specialities: Food History, Nutrition, Cookbooks, Gastronomy cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.usit.com/cbertel/ Long before institutionalized religions came along--and temples and churches--there was an unquestioned recognition that what goes on in a kitchen is holy. Cooking involves an enormously rich coming together of the fruits of the earth with the inventive genius of the human being. ---Laurel Robertson--- ****************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 07:13:59 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Philip Montgomery Subject: Re: Need word processor/proofreader (no indexing, sorry) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Most e-mail systems allow or have the option of: Reply - to sender only. or Reply All - anyone that the original message was addressed to. IT sounds as if the Reply All button was selected. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 10:30:25 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: 10 Words That Don't Exist, But Should: (humor,related to indexing) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's another I've been using for years. It was invented by my assistant manager in the long-distant days when I was a bookstore manager: MAGGITS (MAG - its): Those annoying postcard inserts that fall out a magazine when you pick it up. (In a bookstore, those things multiply like... well, you get the point.) Kara Pekar Wordsmith Indexing Services jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 07:57:28 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Manjit Sahai Subject: Indexing actors and movies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi everyone, I am indexing a book about actors who portrayed Abraham Lincoln in movies and plays in 20th century. BTW, this book is NOT a biography of Abraham Lincoln. This book is loaded with the names of actors, actresses, movies and plays. The editor wants me to index all those names and the index has extremely limited space. She has just given me 5 pages for the index. I have few questions for this book. Here they are.... 1...I plan to list name of every movie in italics the way it has been done in the book. So my question is when I list the name of the movie as a sub under actor's name, should I list the name in italics or regular way. For example..... Fonda, Henry.....in Young Mr. Lincoln.....25 2...Throughout the book, scenes from various movies are being discussed and through those scenes, the author is talking about some episodes of Lincon's life, like his mother's agonizing labor when he was born, Lincoln's ill fated romance with Ann Rutledge and his unhappy marriage with Mary Todd Lincoln. With limited space available for the index, does it make sense to make entries of real life people like, Abraham Licnocln, Mary Todd Lincoln and Ann Rutledge (Lincoln's first love)? After all this book is *not* a biography. It is about film portrayals of Lincoln's life. Any helpful suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. MANJIT K. SAHAI Sterling, VA ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 11:35:03 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Jenkins Subject: Re: INDEX-L Digest - 4 Sep 1999 to 5 Sep 1999 (#1999-37) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you, Bob!! Your Hemingway and Spillane passages have given me a great laugh!! Would that I were so creative. Linda >I wonder how Hemingway or Mickey Spillane would have written that paragraph. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 13:40:03 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PDepri5514@AOL.COM Subject: Re: What about Literary Marketplace (LMP)? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/4/99 9:53:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, abbaindx@CROSSLINK.NET writes: << I am wondering how many of you are signed up on the web for LMP? It is $389 annually and really LOADED with marketing information. Is this worthwile? Or should I spend my time sitting at the library taking notes, addresses, 800 numbers from the chained-to-the-wall reference copy. Is this a worthwhile write-off? OR, should I just purchase the LMP about every 3-5 years, or so, to have on hand at home for those lulls in indexing when I need to do more marketing? What think ye, list? Ardith Ayotte ABBA Index Services abbaindx@crosslink.net OR Index-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU >> Ardith; I can get you the 1998 LMP (2 volumes), about 2,000 pages. $75 plus $10 for handling. Patrick ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 12:36:29 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: 10 Words That Don't Exist, But Should: (humor, related to indexing) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > 3. DISCONFECT (dis kon fekt') v. To sterilize the piece of candy you dropped > on the floor by blowing on it, assuming this will somehow 'remove' all the > germs. > To heck with germs. I'm just trying to get the cat hair off of it! > 9. PUPKUS (pup'kus) n. The moist residue left on a window after a dog presses > its nose to it. > Oh boy, now I'm trying to think up a name for the markings left on our sliding door after Marvin lets us know she wants in. (Yes, a she named Marvin; it would take too long to explain.) She has never understood why she cannot just walk through glass since she can see through. So she tries to paw her way through. We are well trained to respond when she "scritches." That covers the sound, but what about the paw marks? puss'n baretoes? kitskritchenmungle (kit skritchen mungle)? What a way to spend a holiday! Ann Truesdale ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 11:24:09 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ellen Davenport Subject: Toasts by famous people MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Collective Wisdom: I'm indexing a book of toasts. It was written by a humorist and has chapters organized by toasts for specific holidays, occasions, people, occupation, etc. Each of these chapters contains numerous toasts, most of which were written by the book's author or are not attributed to anyone. However, many of the toasts come from famous people and appear in the book as follows: *There's a section called "Toasts of the Famous," one called "Toasts of the Infamous," and one called "Toasts from People You Never Heard of." *Throughout the book, there are toasts/quotes cited as follows: "Here's looking at you!" --Joe Bazoo *Throughout the book, there are other toasts cited in this way: "In the words of the great Joe Bazoo, 'Here's looking at you!" There are quite a few quotes/toasts for people like Shakespeare, Mark Twain, Groucho Marx. On the other hand, there are a lot of people cited who appear only once and/or who I've never heard of--and who may or may not be famous. If I put in all the names of people who have been quoted, I'm way over my line count, unless I cut other entries. I can't decide whether or not to index quotes/toasts by author,. Some--like Shakespeare, Mark Twain, Groucho--I'm fairly certain should be included. But who would ever look in the index for Joe Bazoo? If I decide to index some of the names, where do I draw the line--people whose quotes appear in the book more than once and that I think are famous? Then again, maybe no one really cares who said these things; readers will only be looking for a toast for a particular occasion or on a specific subject and wouldn't care who the toast/quote came from. On reading through the chapter containing Scottish toasts, they will come across a toast by Robert Burns, and that will be good enough. I'm certainly no expert--don't remember ever giving a toast. How would you all use such a book? Thanks, Ellen Davenport edaven@pacbell.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 16:01:17 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: Toasts by famous people MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Personally, I'd include at least the famous names, if you can. Some readers may remember having heard or read a toast by a particular author, but not remember what the exact topic was. (And while I, as a reader, might think to look under "Scottish toasts" if I couldn't find "Burns," I'd be pretty surprised not to find "Shakespeare.") Just my two cents, Kara Pekar Wordsmith Indexing Services jkpekar@crosslink.net ---------- > From: Ellen Davenport > To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > Subject: Toasts by famous people > Date: Monday, September 06, 1999 2:24 PM > > Dear Collective Wisdom: > > I'm indexing a book of toasts. It was written by a humorist and has > chapters organized by toasts for specific holidays, occasions, people, > occupation, etc. Each of these chapters contains numerous toasts, most of > which were written by the book's author or are not attributed to anyone. > However, many of the toasts come from famous people and appear in the book > as follows: > > *There's a section called "Toasts of the Famous," one called "Toasts of the > Infamous," and one called "Toasts from People You Never Heard of." > > *Throughout the book, there are toasts/quotes cited as follows: > "Here's looking at you!" > --Joe Bazoo > > *Throughout the book, there are other toasts cited in this way: > "In the words of the great Joe Bazoo, 'Here's looking at you!" > > There are quite a few quotes/toasts for people like Shakespeare, Mark > Twain, Groucho Marx. On the other hand, there are a lot of people cited > who appear only once and/or who I've never heard of--and who may or may not > be famous. > > If I put in all the names of people who have been quoted, I'm way over my > line count, unless I cut other entries. I can't decide whether or not to > index quotes/toasts by author,. Some--like Shakespeare, Mark Twain, > Groucho--I'm fairly certain should be included. But who would ever look in > the index for Joe Bazoo? If I decide to index some of the names, where do > I draw the line--people whose quotes appear in the book more than once and > that I think are famous? > > Then again, maybe no one really cares who said these things; readers will > only be looking for a toast for a particular occasion or on a specific > subject and wouldn't care who the toast/quote came from. On reading > through the chapter containing Scottish toasts, they will come across a > toast by Robert Burns, and that will be good enough. > > I'm certainly no expert--don't remember ever giving a toast. How would you > all use such a book? > > Thanks, > > Ellen Davenport > edaven@pacbell.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 00:02:43 GMT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Andrea Doria Subject: Re: jobs from hell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I agree, but then I look at such a scenario as a "boilerplate" and it depends on the subject matter. If I know the subject matter pretty well, I would find no problem with this. However if it were something new I can see how it would drive one crazy. It may be "clerical work" but if you are charging professional fees, look on the bright side! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:26:22 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Iris B. Ailin-Pyzik" Subject: Maggits - off topic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Someone once suggested that the thing to do with these was to drop them in the mail (they are invariably business reply cards) without filling them out! The recipient has to pay the post office for the mailing (at premium prices, BTW) and received nothing for it. Hmmmm... Iris John and Kara Pekar wrote: > > Here's another I've been using for years. It was invented by my assistant > manager in the long-distant days when I was a bookstore manager: > > MAGGITS (MAG - its): Those annoying postcard inserts that fall out a > magazine when you pick it up. > > (In a bookstore, those things multiply like... well, you get the point.) > > Kara Pekar > Wordsmith Indexing Services > jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 20:18:11 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: sample indexes In-Reply-To: <19990905215656.PKER21390@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" If you send one from a published book, check it over to make sure it wasn't changed in a way that you wouldn't want someone to think was your doing. Rachel >Hi all, > >Busy week-end for me--working. > >short question--when you are requested to >send a sample index, do you send one of your >already published indexes (copy it from the book) >or do you print one that is formatted on >your computer? > >Thanks > > >Kathleen Paparchontis >K & D, Associates >916-344-3846 >916-344-9564 (fax) >kpaparchontis@worldnet.att.net Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric racric ICQ 31476947 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 22:50:53 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Anne Day Subject: Re: Diskettes for publishers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Naomi, RTF format has always worked for me, but if in doubt, I'd say send a sample. Perhaps the sample could be sent as an e-mail attachment (since it's really the file format you're testing), though of course that can cause unnecessary confusion for some editors if the attachment gets garbled (not necessary their fault). Anne >>Anne, >>Thanks for the concise explanation of what a publisher does with an >>indexer's disk. >>Does an indexer normally send a test diskette at her expense to a new >>client/ editor before completing the index to see if it can be opened >>preserving necessary formatting like indents (as tabs)? >>Naomi -- Anne Day, Indexer Specializing in Environmental and Plant Science topics ConTEXT Communications Holland, Pennsylvania contextcomm@att.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 23:33:29 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: magnetix@IX.NETCOM.COM Subject: Page proofs - keep or discard or ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I always RETURN the page proofs to the publisher. I figure they are the publisher's property. My page proofs are underlined with the topic words that I indexed. The underlinings may not be completely worded with final phrasing as it appears in the index; still, the editor who is spot checking the index can see that (to use a fictional example), "Lincoln, A." WAS indexed on a particular page, but "Gettysburg" was not. I believe that's helpful. Furthermore, if I've noticed any typos, the typos are flagged (either with actual flags, or I make a separate list of pages on which typos occur.) This costs me little time, but is usually greatly appreciated. The argument as to confidentiality is also a strong one, and is another reason for returning the page proofs. Of course, I keep my data indefinitely. I also keep all the draft printouts of a job, until I've gotten paid. After payment, I keep only sample pages of the final index, and some job history. Hope this helps. (Hello, Elliot!) Peter Rooney magnetix@ix.netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 01:37:00 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elliot Linzer Subject: Re: Toasts by famous people MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ellen Davenport actually has several problems. My advice, for all it's worth, is that first, she should call the book's editor. See if it is possible to free up more space for the index. If that is not possible, can the index be set in a smaller or tighter font to generate more space. Next, try to talk to the editor about the book's expected readership and the marketing strategy for the book. It is probably safe to assume that the expected readers are people who are often called upon to make toasts. But if this were my assignment, I would handle the index differently if I expected the readers to be corporate bigwigs versus clergy members versus politicians versus entertainers. I can imagine some populations, such as clergy or academics, looking up the people they want to quote, while other populations, such as corporate execs and government bureaucrats wanting to hit on a specific idea, regardless of who they are stealing it from. With a severe space limitation, Ellen can not do a thorough job indexing the names and all the concepts at the same time. It is a tough spot to be in. As I suggested earlier, try to get more space for the index. Next, it is really not possible to dismiss some of the people cited as being "not famous." Just because you don't know who Joe Bazoo is doesn't mean that Joe's grandchildren don't remember him or know him (I assume that you don't know if he is dead or alive). After all, this book may be marketed to the Bazoo family! Just a week ago, I had no idea who Barbara Pym was. My gut feeling is that any person who is quoted belongs in the index. In addition to the advice that you are getting from the INDEX-L list, it is essential that you discuss this book with its editor. You can't go wrong following your client's instructions. | Elliot Linzer | 43-05 Crommelin Street | Flushing, New York 11355 | (718) 353-1261 | elinzer@juno.com On Mon, 6 Sep 1999 11:24:09 -0700 Ellen Davenport writes: > Dear Collective Wisdom: > > I'm indexing a book of toasts. It was written by a humorist and has > chapters organized by toasts for specific holidays, occasions, people, > occupation, etc. Each of these chapters contains numerous toasts, most of > which were written by the book's author or are not attributed to anyone. > However, many of the toasts come from famous people and appear in the book > as follows: > > *There's a section called "Toasts of the Famous," one called "Toasts of the > Infamous," and one called "Toasts from People You Never Heard of." > > *Throughout the book, there are toasts/quotes cited as follows: "Here's looking at > you!" --Joe Bazoo > > *Throughout the book, there are other toasts cited in this way: > "In the words of the great Joe Bazoo, 'Here's looking at you!" > > There are quite a few quotes/toasts for people like Shakespeare, Mark > Twain, Groucho Marx. On the other hand, there are a lot of people cited > who appear only once and/or who I've never heard of--and who may or may not > be famous. > > If I put in all the names of people who have been quoted, I'm way over my > line count, unless I cut other entries. I can't decide whether or not to > index quotes/toasts by author,. Some--like Shakespeare, Mark Twain, > Groucho--I'm fairly certain should be included. But who would ever look in > the index for Joe Bazoo? If I decide to index some of the names, where do > I draw the line--people whose quotes appear in the book more than once and > that I think are famous? > > Then again, maybe no one really cares who said these things; readers will > only be looking for a toast for a particular occasion or on a specific > subject and wouldn't care who the toast/quote came from. On reading > through the chapter containing Scottish toasts, they will come across a > toast by Robert Burns, and that will be good enough. > > I'm certainly no expert--don't remember ever giving a toast. How would you > all use such a book? > > Thanks, > > Ellen Davenport > edaven@pacbell.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 07:44:03 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Grady Subject: Web indexing -prices, etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I have been asked to give a quote on indexing a rather large Web site. I am interested in doing it, but have not had any experience with Web sites yet and I have a few questions for those of you who have been doing this awhile. Would anyone mind giving me a general range as to what people are charging, also are people mostly charging by the page (Web page that is) or by the hour or by the project? I realize this could vary widely but any input would help. I have been leaning toward charging by the page. Also, what is the preferred software for Web indexing, I have the demo of HTML Indexer, but am wondering what else people are using. Can anyone recommend a book, or class, or whatever, on Web indexing? Thanks for your help. Julie Grady Indexing Solutions ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:49:35 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Wyatt Organization: Keyword Editorial Services Subject: Re: Web indexing -prices, etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Julie: WWWalker Web Development runs an Internet-based course on Web indexing. I haven't done the course, but I've read good reports of it. You can reach them at http://www.wwwalker.com.au/ Michael Wyatt Keyword Editorial Services 22 Kendall Street, Surry Hills 2010 Australia Phone 0500 539 973 Fax (02) 9331 7785 keyword@ozemail.com.au ----- Original Message ----- From: Julie Grady To: Sent: Tuesday, 07 September, 1999 4:44 Subject: Web indexing -prices, etc. > Hi All, > I have been asked to give a quote on indexing a rather large Web site. > I am interested in doing it, but have not had any experience with Web sites > yet and I have a few questions for those of you who have been doing this > awhile. Would anyone mind giving me a general range as to what people are > charging, also are people mostly charging by the page (Web page that is) or > by the hour or by the project? I realize this could vary widely but any > input would help. I have been leaning toward charging by the page. Also, > what is the preferred software for Web indexing, I have the demo of HTML > Indexer, but am wondering what else people are using. Can anyone recommend > a book, or class, or whatever, on Web indexing? Thanks for your help. > > Julie Grady > Indexing Solutions > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 08:09:59 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: Web indexing -prices, etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Julie Grady wrote: > > ... I have been leaning toward charging by the page. I would recommend charging by the hour (or project) and using a tool that lets you make the most of the time you're paid for. Web site developers are used to paying hourly (or project) rates for writers, designers, and other consultants. Indexers should meet little resistance to billing the same way, especially where the client already recognizes the value of a site index. (ALso, it would be much harder to define an "average page" in hypertext than in print.) > ... what is the preferred software for Web indexing? Well, I know *my* preference, but so does everyone else on this list! ;) --David ============================= David M. Brown - Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ============================= A V A I L A B L E N O W ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ HTML Indexer 3.1, still the easiest way to create and maintain back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. Now including options for HTML Help and JavaHelp indexes, too! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 08:11:37 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: Web indexing -prices, etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Michael Wyatt wrote: > > WWWalker Web Development runs an Internet-based course on Web indexing. I > haven't done the course, but I've read good reports of it. > As we try to point out in the HTML Indexer tutorial, indexing a web site is more *like* than *unlike* indexing a book. We've tried very hard to minimize the differences by designing HTML Indexer so that you can concentrate on the index entries, rather than on the complexities of URLs and HTML coding. Indexing "the Web"--the focus of Dwight Walker's course, if I remember correctly--is quite different from indexing a web site. (There's a password-protected link to the course from his home page, http://www.wwwalker.com.au/ ). --David ============================= David M. Brown - Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ============================= A V A I L A B L E N O W ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ HTML Indexer 3.1, still the easiest way to create and maintain back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. Now including options for HTML Help and JavaHelp indexes, too! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:46:03 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Lane Subject: Re: Web indexing -prices, etc. In-Reply-To: <000401bef926$49e57300$4808e6cd@jrussell1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > I have been asked to give a quote on indexing a rather large Web site. >I am interested in doing it, but have not had any experience with Web sites >yet and I have a few questions for those of you who have been doing this >awhile. Would anyone mind giving me a general range as to what people are >charging, also are people mostly charging by the page (Web page that is) or >by the hour or by the project? I realize this could vary widely but any >input would help. I have been leaning toward charging by the page. Also, >what is the preferred software for Web indexing, I have the demo of HTML >Indexer, but am wondering what else people are using. Can anyone recommend >a book, or class, or whatever, on Web indexing? Thanks for your help. > >Julie Grady >Indexing Solutions Kevin Broccoli explained a method to me where he generates "page equivalents" by doing word counts on the Web pages to relate the site to an equivalent length of printed pages (250 words per page) and then applying his page rate plus a percentage surcharge to arrive at a quotation. He can explain that better than I. Kevin? I have also been invited to bid on a Web indexing job and have put it off for a while as I work through other projects. I have some material from the workshop at the Indianapolis meeting that I plan to use, as far as methodology. Others will be able to suggest other ways to proceed, I'm sure. Karen Lane klane@klane.com co-webmaster, ASI Web site co-chair ASI Web Committee webmasters@asindexing.org http://www.asindexing.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:21:59 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MiRobin Subject: Re: INDEX-L Digest - 5 Sep 1999 to 6 Sep 1999 (#1999-38) In-Reply-To: <199909070405.AAA26590@bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I've tried repeatedly to subscribe to the copyediting list, formerly at Cornell and now at Indiana University. I've followed the directions to the letter, to wit: To: listserv@listserv.indiana.edu [and then in the body, with subject line blank] subscribe copyediting-l MiRobin Webster -- Can anyone tell me whether the copyediting list is active, and how to subscribe to it? Thanks for your help, Webster ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 17:53:34 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DINA PALLAZOLA Subject: Re: Web indexing -prices, etc. Comments: To: Michael Wyatt Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Michael and All! I checked out this website, and I've got to say, I was not very impressed. There was no mention of the course they offer anywhere. As an afterthought, I clicked on "ordering", and there it was, without any description of what you get for your $35. I know $35 is not a fortune, but on the other hand, I would hate to waste it. Does anyone else have any experience with this website? I guess I just expected more from a website that wants to teach others how to index the web. Any thoughts on this are appreciated, as I would like to give this a try! Dina ------Original Message------ From: Michael Wyatt To: Sent: September 8, 1999 6:49:35 AM GMT Subject: Re: Web indexing -prices, etc. Julie: WWWalker Web Development runs an Internet-based course on Web indexing. I haven't done the course, but I've read good reports of it. You can reach them at http://www.wwwalker.com.au/ Michael Wyatt Keyword Editorial Services 22 Kendall Street, Surry Hills 2010 Australia Phone 0500 539 973 Fax (02) 9331 7785 keyword@ozemail.com.au ----- Original Message ----- From: Julie Grady To: Sent: Tuesday, 07 September, 1999 4:44 Subject: Web indexing -prices, etc. > Hi All, > I have been asked to give a quote on indexing a rather large Web site. > I am interested in doing it, but have not had any experience with Web sites > yet and I have a few questions for those of you who have been doing this > awhile. Would anyone mind giving me a general range as to what people are > charging, also are people mostly charging by the page (Web page that is) or > by the hour or by the project? I realize this could vary widely but any > input would help. I have been leaning toward charging by the page. Also, > what is the preferred software for Web indexing, I have the demo of HTML > Indexer, but am wondering what else people are using. Can anyone recommend > a book, or class, or whatever, on Web indexing? Thanks for your help. > > Julie Grady > Indexing Solutions > __________________________________________________ FREE Email for ALL! Sign up at http://www.mail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:32:52 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: automatic e-mail attachments In-Reply-To: <004401bef408$7ea1c800$0300000a@0rqfz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thank you, Charles, for your reply to my query about getting rid of automatic e-mail attachments from people using Microsoft Outlook (and possibly other e-mail programs). I sent your instructions for setting up Outlook to a friend from whom I've been getting such attachments for some time. She selected her Plain Text option (thereby deselecting her HTML option) and then sent me a trial message, and -- ta da! -- no added attachment! As far as I know this hasn't and won't cause her any trouble at all so I'm hoping that those of us on this list using Microsoft Outlook will be willing to check their Plain Text option too so that those of us using Eudora 3.0 (and other programs too I imagine) can be spared the bother of having to delete automatic e-mail attachments. Thanks, Michael At 04:28 PM 8/31/99 -0700, Charles Anderson wrote: >If I understand correctly what you are referring to, if you go into >Outlook - Options - Send and check the Plain Text option, then a recipient >won't get an attached HTML when their mail program can't read HTML mail. >I've also be told that these attachments show up when the sender and >recipient are using different mail programs and the recipient can't read the >formatting in the message. The attachments, which I've been told are >actually there but not visible if there are no problems reading the text, >seem to be inherent as long as there are multiple types of email programs >and ways of transmitting information. I also have my default encoding >setting on the READ option to Western European (Windows). I don't know if >this is a factor, but I have not seen any of those attachments in a long >time. I am using Outlook Express 5.0/ > >Charles R. Anderson >the-indexer.com >P.O. Box 15642 >Seattle, WA 98115-0642 >phone: 206-985-8799 >fax: 206-985-8796 >----- Original Message ----- >From: Michael Brackney >To: >Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 3:52 PM >Subject: automatic attachments > > >> I'm finding it a nuisance to have to keep purging my In Box of automatic >> attachments to messages from some of our contributors. It's my >> understanding that these attachments are generated by some e-mail programs >> including Microsoft Outlook, and that this can be prevented by changing >the >> program settings that control it. I wish someone who knows how to do this >> in Outlook, at least, would tell us how to do it. >> >> Thanks much, >> >> Michael >> > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 20:12:55 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Ardith Ayotte, R.T." Subject: Fw: INTERNET INDEXING INSTRUCTION MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Dwight Walker To: abba@crosslink.net Date: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 7:52 PM Subject: Re: INTERNET INDEXING INSTRUCTION >"Ardith B. Ayotte" wrote: > >> Hear tell you have an indexing course for internet and on the internet. >> >> Please send information such as course and cost. > >Hello Ardith > >I did run an online Web indexing course for 3 months at the beginning of >last year. I have not run an online class since then but have sold the >notes I developed from that course separately. You may buy a copy of them >for download as a zip file or online access for $35 USD or $50 AUD. I will >email you a userid, password and URL to access the information. > >Payment is via our Web site using credit card or by posting a cheque to our >address in Australia. > >Here is a copy of a summary of what you get in the notes which I wrote up >for our Newsletter in August. They are do-it-yourself and require you be an >indexer with good computer skills or have an interest in categorising >information on the Web. You need some basic HTML skills to be able to >create Web indexes and an HTML editor to create an index e.g. FrontPage. > >Finally see > > http://www.wwwalker.com.au/webcourse.html > >for details of the curriculum. > >Why not join out mailing list for announcements or buy the notes? Go to our >Web site for details. > >BTW how did you hear about us? > >Dwight > > Archive for WWWalker Web Development Newsletter: Message #26 > > Date: > Aug 06 1999 06:06:06 EDT > From: > "WWWalker Web Development Newsletter" > > Subject: > "Introduction to Web indexing" notes for personal use > > > I am still getting enquiries about the Introduction to Web >indexing notes > from the course I ran last year. > > The personal copies of the notes are available for $50 AUD or $35 >USD. > Anyone wanting to redistribute or republish them in their >organisation can > negotiate a price with us directly. > > We used to have some really fun times in these online classes >whizzing all > over the Web and chatting to each other over ICQ. It was just the > > technology, lack of resources and lack of copyright controls that >stumped > me!! We may be using secure servers in future editions of this >field's > development at WWWalker. Stay tuned. We are not over yet... > > We are Web developers so are keen to help build your Web index or >help you > design it. Get in touch with us if we can help you here. Many >cybrarians > (Internet Librarians) are asking us for this kind of support. >Anyone > building a serious list of links would find it very useful. Most >of my > best customers in this area are very large corporations or >universities in > Australia. > > There are approximately 50 pages of: > > 1) transcripts from 3 separate classes (each class had 3 members >plus > tutor) - 3 x 4 transcripts - each transcript ran for 3 hours - 36 >hours of > notes!! (equivalent of about 100 pages of transcripts) Each class >also > submitted their own sample indexes during the classes - at least >2 indexes > per student - about 12 indexes to look at. Some were indexes of >the same > site. Others were on a topic. I examine the indexes folks' submit >and you > will see my comments in the transcripts as to why they were off >beam or > needed some work. > > 2)approx. 6 specially written articles on Web indexing which I >wrote based > on my 3 years' experience as Australian Society of Indexers' Web >indexing > prize judge. Most are substantial articles. Others are glossing >over but > just giving you a pointer. We have a tour of Web indexes that >were entered > at the prize. We cover metadata. I have some input into how to >get good > tools going and how to dirty your hands in this field. > > Conditions of sale: > 1) 1 year's access with optional free annual renewal > 2) userid, password and URL issued on receival of payment > 3) only for personal use > > To purchase a copy, if you are overseas you may use your credit >card via > secure page at Kagi. (See our Web site). > > If you are in Australia, please make a cheque for $50 AUD to >WWWalker Web > Development Pty. Ltd. and post to: > > D Walker > WWWalker Web Development Pty. Ltd. > PO Box 288 > Wentworthville NSW 2145 > Australia > > Thanks for your patronage. > > Cheers > Dwight >---------------------------------------------------- >Dwight Walker >WWWalker Web Development Pty. Ltd. (ACN 088 959 086) >PO Box 288, Wentworthville, Sydney, 2145, Australia >http://www.wwwalker.com.au, http://www.speakeasy.org/~dwight (US mirror) >tel +61-2-96371649, mob +61-412-405727, fax +61-2-97772058 >ICQ No. 4631678, handle: wwwalker (www.icq.com) >