Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9906C" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:16:40 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Tombs Subject: Recording Time Spent on Projects Recently I came across the following piece of software, which I thought might be of interest to other list members. Quoting from the author of the program: Time Stamp is a freeware program that you can use to easily track time spent on a project. It enables you to time how long you spend on a task, including features that let you take "slack time" for a phone call or break. Times for various tasks can be linked to an hourly charge rate for accurate billing. Details can be found at: http://www.erols.com/syntap/timestamp/ I have found the program useful for recording time spent on different projects, and now use it on a daily basis. The best part is that it is completely free! Hope this is of some interest, Michael Tombs Michael.Tombs@tesco.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 11:36:43 +0200 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Walker, Kim(DBM)" Subject: Re: Recording Time Spent on Projects Thought of you and time management. Kim > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Tombs [SMTP:Michael.Tombs@TESCO.NET] > Sent: 15 June 1999 11:17 > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Recording Time Spent on Projects > > Recently I came across the following piece of software, which I thought > might be of interest to other list members. > > Quoting from the author of the program: > > Time Stamp is a freeware program that you can use to easily track time > spent > on a project. It enables you to time how long you spend on a task, > including > features that let you take "slack time" for a phone call or break. Times > for > various tasks can be linked to an hourly charge rate for accurate billing. > > Details can be found at: > http://www.erols.com/syntap/timestamp/ > > > I have found the program useful for recording time spent on different > projects, and now use it on a daily basis. The best part is that it is > completely free! > > Hope this is of some interest, > > Michael Tombs > Michael.Tombs@tesco.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 06:01:27 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Yves_Fran=E7ois_Jeaurond?= Subject: Reading INDEX-L--that's networking (was: Business Doldrums) In-Reply-To: <199906081239.IAA07477@mag1.magmacom.com> Cynthia D. Bertelsen, Julia Marshall, all: Hi. Thank you for your good advice to Julia Marshall. INDEX-L is a wonderful source of advice and anecdotes on the trade. Yet, the magic of true networking also happens when non-peers (and lots of them) get involved. Harvey Mackay makes a good point on networking with peers when he writes: "Don't build a network that looks just like you. (...) If everyone in your network is the same as you, it isn't a network, it's an anthill." (Dig Your Well Before You're Thirsty, Doubleday, 1997, ch. 41) Cordially, Yves Jeaurond jingting@magma.ca *************************************************************************= ** The Jingle Tingle--Hear the sounds you want to hear, today. - bilingual online help design and construction - indexing - editing - technical writing, and - (yes!) jingles 1643 Boyer Road Gloucester, Ontario Canada K1C 3H6 (613) 830-8877; home office ---------- > > >Julia Marshall wrote: > >> > >> Hi all, > >> A few months ago, I left the security of my library job to > >> pursue freelancing full time. I had been doing steady business for = abou=3D > >t>> six months with indexing and felt that if I wanted to go further = with =3D > >it>> I needed to pursue it full time. It's been about three months now= and > >> I've only had one indexing job the whole time. Yes I've been contact= ing > >> publishers and sending out resumes. I've contacted people who I knew= =3D > >were>> working on books. No go. Is there anyone else having the busine= ss > >> doldrums this spring and what are you doing about it? Please reply > >> directly to me not to the list as I am currently not receiving Index= -L =3D > >at>> this time. Thanks. > > First of all, you should be reading INDEX-L--that's networking. Jobs = are > posted at times. By contributing to INDEX-L and ASI-L (assuming you are= a > member of ASI), you can also get yourself known. That's how some referr= als > come, too. Go to indexing conferences and volunteer for ASI. Several = of the > people in ASI with whom I have worked have referred work to me and I = to > them. So...you DO have time to volunteer...you cannot afford not to. = You can > also learn a lot by reading INDEX-L consistently. We don't always have = the > discussions like we did a few years ago related to fuzzy pink pajamas! > > That said, I have to reiterate that marketing and more marketing is > essential, even if you think you are well set with a few clients. Edito= rs > leave the field or move to another publishing house with a full stable = of > indexers. When that happens, you get left out of the stable, without = leads. > > I personally market several times a year and each time I send out at = least > 50-100 letters. My rate of return on this effort is about the same as > Janet's, BUT I find that out of the blue I will get a call a few years = later > from someone to whom I sent my stuff earlier. So even if the phone does= n't > ring off the wall right away doesn't mean it won't. (See below.) One = job > more than pays for the cost of the mailing and xeroxing. > > This type of marketing has paid off well enough for me that I have to = carve > out free time for myself by scheduling it. And even during my free time= , I > do a little research on publishers for whom I would like to work. I jus= t did > something crazy a few weeks ago and subscribed to the online version = of LMP > (it costs $216.95 a year); it's wonderful because I save time by being = able > to search by subject and thereby find the publishers that might be > interested in my services. (I don't have to drive to the library and = try to > find the LMP.) I then open up Word and create my mailing list from the = list > in LMP by copying the names/addresses and pasting them in Word. I then = do a > mail merge for letters and labels. Saves lots of time. > > One thing that I have noticed is that if you are able to squeeze in wor= k > when you are too busy, you will get called again at a more leisurely = pace > for future indexes. Be willing to accept work under tight deadlines > sometimes. I also resend my marketing stuff to publishers from whom I = never > hear and for whom I REALLY want to work. The other day this paid off: = a > publisher called me after I had been beating on their door for four yea= rs! I > really wanted to work for them and kept sending my marketing packets = to them. > > No, I never do cold calls. > > Hope this helps. > > Cynthia > > > > ***************************************** > > Cynthia D. Bertelsen > Bertelsen Indexing and Editorial Services > Specialties: Cookbooks, Food History, Nutrition, Food Writing > cbertel@usit.net > Web page: http://www.usit.com/cbertel/ > > "When we no longer have good cooking in the world, we will have no > literature, nor high and sharp intelligence, nor friendly gatherings, = no > social harmony." --Careme > ****************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 06:07:26 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Yves_Fran=E7ois_Jeaurond?= Subject: Re: company/name indexes In-Reply-To: <199906141723.NAA14816@mag1.magmacom.com> Hi. Your client is confusing an index with a concordance. The "Chicago Manual of Style" makes a clear distinction betweeen the two. If all else fails, quote the Bard to 'em: What's in a name? Yves jingting@magma.ca ---------- > > Hi all, > I've got a question about what you include when doing company/name inde= xes. > It's been a long time since I've been asked to do any (thank God!). Any= way, > my instinct is to add companies and people who have actually been discu= ssed > in some way, not all the companies and people just mentioned in passing= . > Opinions please? > Thanks > Leslie > Frank Words Indexing and Editing > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 07:50:22 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: Reading INDEX-L--that's networking (was: Business Doldrums) Not everyone on INDEX-L is an indexer. I did not mean that one should read INDEX-L to the exclusion of other networking contacts. Why don't you share with us some of Mr. Mackay's specific ideas? We're all pretty busy right now and don't have time to read every book suggested on the list. Thanks. Cynthia At 06:01 AM 6/15/99 PDT, Yves Fran=E7ois Jeaurond wrote: >Cynthia D. Bertelsen, Julia Marshall, all: > >Hi. Thank you for your good advice to Julia Marshall. >INDEX-L is a wonderful source of advice and anecdotes >on the trade. Yet, the magic of true networking also >happens when non-peers (and lots of them) get involved. >Harvey Mackay makes a good point on networking >with peers when he writes: "Don't build a network >that looks just like you. (...) If everyone in your network >is the same as you, it isn't a network, it's an anthill." >(Dig Your Well Before You're Thirsty, Doubleday, 1997, ch. 41) ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen Bertelsen Indexing and Editorial Services Specialties: Food History, Nutrition and Foods, Cookbooks, Food Writing cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.usit.com/cbertel/ "When we no longer have good cooking in the world, we will have no literature, nor high and sharp intelligence, nor friendly gatherings, no social harmony." --Careme ****************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 07:33:18 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Schroeder Subject: Audiotapes I wanted to let you know that audiotapes will not be available from the Indianapolis meeting. Unfortunately, many of the speakers were not willing to be taped and the company that I had located to provide this service was not sure that there would be enough sales. I had hoped to provide this service, but did not feel that ASI could underwrite the sales at this time. Sandi Schroeder President, ASI ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:01:50 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "M. Jessie Barczak" Subject: Re: Discount/payment time another story that pertains to this thread. I make purchases using a VISA check card. I paid for an HTML class with the card on a Monday in the week of the BIG HOLIDAY Memorial Day. I, of course, accounted for the charge. However, because I have a limit as to how much I can "charge" or withdraw using the check card, I ran into a problem due to the accounting "practices" of the training company. I tried to make a major purchase for office-related computer equipment using my check card, and it was denied. Wondering why, I called the bank and they told me that the training company had put the "charge" through --- 3 weeks later! When I called the training company and spoke with their A/P person, she said they make charges like that only once a week, on a Friday, and the Friday of the week I "paid" for the class was the "start of the Memorial Day weekend" and it was "never done." It had to wait till the next week. It obviously never got "charged" the next week because I had the problem the third week when I tried to make a major purchase. I even e-mailed the president of the company and got a runaround. the A/P person blamed the comptroller. the comptroller reiterated their policy but had no explanation as to why so long a time had passed. I still don't understand the once-a-week business. It's only a check card and it only takes a phone call! The trials and tribulations of a small business ... MJBarczak Washington, DC (E-mail me personally if you want to know the name of the training company. IMHO a company is only as good as its accounting department) At 05:18 PM 6/14/99 EDT, you wrote: >All, > >My experience parallels Joy's. Discounts do not affect payment time in my >case. Penalties are ignored. Faxing or sending a second invoice after 30 >days, with a penalty indicated, however, usually pries the check out of the >client FAST, without the penalty, though. > >Let's face it -- we have little clout, and therefore have to be assertive >with those Accounting folks sometimes. Your editorial contact person has >little to do with payment time, unless he/she is the one on whose desk your >invoice got laid to rest for too long. This rarely happens. It is in the >Accounts Receivable area where the problem occurs, and it is by design. They >"age" their invoices, and pay according to a schedule, and according to who >makes most noise if not paid. Cash flow is everything to those who run their >business that way. > >It seems that to them we are "small potatoes" -- they handle payment to so >many people, some of whom are owed large sums of money and some of which are >large corporate entities. I'm sure that they get attended to first. I think >the attitude among some (the worst ones) is that we small business people can >wait. > >On the positive side, I have many clients who pay within 14 days. Believe me >-- they know how much I appreciate their good business practices. The others >go down to the bottom of my list. Unfortunately, there are some big >publishing houses among the not-so-good-payers. I don't doubt that I will >get paid. But I think the practice of putting the checks out for the >mailroom pickup on the 30th day is awful. I usually receive my check about >40 days after invoice (a few days for mailroom procedures, the rest for US >Postal Service delivery time). Phooey! > >I hope sharing my experience helps some of you. >Janet Perlman >SOUTHWEST INDEXING > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:09:13 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" Subject: Re: Recording Time Spent on Projects When I am working on a project, CINDEX keeps time for me in the lower right-hand corner. If I am editing away from the computer, I simply keep it turned on so it can mark my time. I have another file (in ) where I type the name of the project and other details and then note the "real total" in the event that I was away from my desk and did not have the computer turned on. If I take breaks I generally remember to turn off the computer, or else I tell myself I'm getting paid for my break if it is a short one! One thing I don't keep track of very well is time spent reading Index-L, Keywords, etc. If I think about it I write it down on my weekly time sheet (one of those small day calendars does the trick). I have tried using a CINDEX file that I called "time." I just left the file open and running while I made phone calls, cleaned the office, etc. I keep forgetting to turn it on which is what I suspect would happen with any time-keeping software I might purchase. Paula Durbin-Westby dwindex@louisa.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:58:14 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "M. Jessie Barczak" Subject: Re: Recording Time Spent on Projects Thanks, Paula, great "home-grown" common-sense approach for small business. MJB At 10:09 AM 6/15/99 -0400, you wrote: >When I am working on a project, CINDEX keeps time for me in the lower >right-hand corner. If I am editing away from the computer, I simply keep >it turned on so it can mark my time. I have another file (in ) where I >type the name of the project and other details and then note the "real >total" in the event that I was away from my desk and did not have the >computer turned on. If I take breaks I generally remember to turn off the >computer, or else I tell myself I'm getting paid for my break if it is a >short one! > >One thing I don't keep track of very well is time spent reading Index-L, >Keywords, etc. If I think about it I write it down on my weekly time sheet >(one of those small day calendars does the trick). I have tried using a >CINDEX file that I called "time." I just left the file open and running >while I made phone calls, cleaned the office, etc. I keep forgetting to >turn it on which is what I suspect would happen with any time-keeping >software I might purchase. > >Paula Durbin-Westby >dwindex@louisa.net > > "The bane of my existence is doing things that I know the computer could do for me." Dan Connolly, "The XML Revolution" (1 Oct. 1998) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:57:58 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Recording Time Spent on Projects In-Reply-To: <199906150948.rmcmco.4ed.37kbi3u.1@mx10.mindspring.com> At 10:09 AM 6/15/99 -0400, you wrote: >When I am working on a project, CINDEX keeps time for me in the lower >right-hand corner. Time to plug my favorite: TraxTime. It's shareware, available from Spud City Software: http://www.spudcity.com/ It's a time clock metaphor: you punch in and out of your projects. It accumulates time by project and by various time periods: today, this week, this month, this year, and since start of project. Evaluation version is free, registered version costs about $20. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:09:59 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Larry Baker Subject: Freeware time program Oops... just deleted the email that had the freeware time program (not TraxTime, which I'll check out, too). Could someone post the URL for that program again? Thanks. (My wife's a freelancer, and I wanted to check it out for her.) Larry Baker The Gale Group ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:53:15 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Lane Subject: Re: Freeware time program In-Reply-To: <199906151411.KAA28420@ddi.digital.net> http://www.erols.com/syntap/timestamp/ At 10:09 AM 6/15/99 -0400, you wrote: >Oops... just deleted the email that had the freeware time program (not >TraxTime, which I'll check out, too). Could someone post the URL for that >program again? Thanks. (My wife's a freelancer, and I wanted to check it >out for her.) > >Larry Baker >The Gale Group ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:27:24 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Terrell, Joan" Subject: Formatting mathematical functions in the index I am in a group that documents graphing calculators. Our users can press a key to insert commonly used functions, such as sine and cosine, in expressions. However, we also provide the user with an on-line catalog from which he or she can select functions, including, but not limited to: abs, angle, ans, cFactor. In each instance (whether using a key or selecting from the catalog), an opening parenthesis is pasted into the expression, along with the function name. Using the above examples, this is what would be pasted into the expression: sin( , cos( , abs( , angle( , ans( , cFactor(. The user provides the closing parenthesis for each function. Since our manuals are routinely translated into a dozen or more languages, we feel it is important to provide the purpose of the function. The name of the function is not translated, but the purpose of the function is translated. We would like to include functions in our indexes in order to point the user to where they can learn more about how to use them, but need suggestions on the format that would be best for the user. Using the abs( function as an example, some suggestions have been: abs( ), absolute value absolute value, abs( ) abs( (absolute value) (absolute value) abs( abs, absolute value absolute value, abs If you were a user, which of the above would you prefer, or do you have another suggestion? Do you think the function name needs to be called out special by the use of bold, sans serif font, etc.? By the way, here is how the above example would look like in French, so you need to assume that the purpose of the function won't always begin with the same letter as in English: abs, valeur absolue valeur absolue, abs Thanks. Joan Terrell ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:12:49 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: TShere7566@AOL.COM Subject: Correspondence query clarification Judith Kip asks: > Is that fact that someone * wrote him a letter* of value to people doing > scholarly research and therefore worthy of a entry? Judith, Mary Mortensen posted a very helpful reply to your question. I wanted to add my support for always indexing the recipients of letters and add a couple of other arguments for recipients being "worthy of an entry". Not only can such "minor mentions" be significant for scholars, or when the recipient becomes a major figure later in the book--there's also the issue of "memorability", another thing that came up in Bella Hass Weinberg's workshop. Someone who's already read the letters may be looking for a quote; if it's a quote which does not concern a highly identifiable subject which might be found in the index, the only concrete identifying feature may be the recipient's name (since it probably wouldn't be very helpful to look for the relevant quote under the *writer's* name in the index). Also, it's sometimes very interesting to compare what a letter writer had to say on the same subject to various recipients--which you couldn't do if the recipients were not indexed. Therese Shere Healdsburg, California Therese ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:29:29 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Correspondence query clarification And yet another reason that letter recipients are worthy of indexing: if there's any political content to the correspondence (and possibly even if not), it may be important that the recipient ^saw^ the information contained in the letter. Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:07:06 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joy Thomas Subject: Re: CINDEX/HTML MJB said: Anyone have experience launching web pages using Cindex HTML markup tags? My limited experience (plain vanilla application of the component) renders an index with EXTRA LARGE type. If anyone has the answer, I'd be interested, too. In addition to EXTRA LARGE type, the subheads became left-justified, although in slight less large type. -- Joy Thomas Social Sciences Librarian California State University, Long Beach 562 985-7817 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:29:33 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Judith W. Kip" Subject: Thanks -- correspondence advice Many thanks for the helpful information about indexing the names = of recipients of letters. I guess I knew what the answers would be, but am glad to have the reasons. There are probably hundreds of these in the bo= ok so I shall get to it. It's one of those things in life that I will be really happy I did -- when it's over! Judy Kip ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 11:11:26 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Robin Hilp Subject: reminder about email viruses > Remember, you cannot infect your computer unless you open theattachment. > You cannot be infected simply by opening the email to which it isattached. Please be careful how your email program is configured. It is possible to configure some mailers to automatically open any attachments when a message is opened. You don't want that to happen. === RolyBear ICQ 1863181 (Robin Hilp) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:28:05 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael L. Olason" Subject: Re: CINDEX/HTML MJB and Joy, I have found that the best way to use Cindex to produce an index with HTML tags is to put the exact tags you want right in the index records themselves. That way you have control over exactly how each line of the index will be formatted. And you will retain all of Cindex's capabilities if you need to maintain or edit the index. It's a bit cumbersome to look around the HTML tags until you get used to it, but it really works. Susan Olason ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 11:21:27 -0700 Reply-To: Elinor Lindheimer Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: Re: Formatting mathematical functions in the index I don't think you need to use the parenthesis in the index. I would use parentheses, however, to indicate the name of the function: abs (absolute value) absolute value (abs) Elinor Lindheimer elinorl@mcn.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 15:11:15 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "M. Jessie Barczak" Subject: Re: CINDEX/HTML For example, in a Cindex record structure: Arial<

National Association of Nutrition and Aging Services Programs<

<

Older Americans Act<

1363 ?? Very time consuming
At 01:28 PM 6/15/99 -0500, you wrote: >MJB and Joy, > >I have found that the best way to use Cindex to produce an index with >HTML tags is to put the exact tags you want right in the index records >themselves. That way you have control over exactly how each line of >the index will be formatted. And you will retain all of Cindex's >capabilities if you need to maintain or edit the index. It's a bit >cumbersome to look around the HTML tags until you get used to it, but >it really works. > >Susan Olason > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:11:24 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: page ranges Dear All, I have a question for you all. I've just been asked by a technical client that they don't want me to use page ranges in the index. That is, even if the same material is discussed over two or more pages they only want me to list the first page (where the discussion begins) and that is all. Now granted, I have more academic and textbook clients then technical but I have never heard of this. I'm going to follow the client instructions (and yes, I've already discussed this with them). However, I'm very curious to hear what everyone else's experience might be regarding page range instructions. Thanks! Best, Sylvia Coates ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 16:00:48 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" Subject: Re: page ranges Although this has nothing to do with the type of instructions you've received, I once did a bibiliography for which article numbers rather than page ranges were used as locators. I had done several other bibliographies using this format. The problem with this particular one was that each section started over again: "Year: 1996, Section 1, Article 1." There were many such sections in each chapter, resulting in an endless repetition of "1996: 1:1, 1996:1:1, 1996,1:1" I could see that no one would ever be able to find anything other than the first article in each section (and that only by flipping through the pages to find chapter breaks) unless I used page references. I wouldn't even be able to edit my own entries. The editor really balked at the idea of using plain old vanilla page references in a bibliography but I insisted. Perhaps it would have been better to do it their way and satisfy the customer because I never heard from them again, but there was no real reason to provide an unusable "index" of that type. My only point is that the editor hadn't thought through the process of what the index was to be used for, and I, the indexer, did. So you might want to look ahead to anticipate any potential problems before you do the entire book. If "computers" are on page 14-20, 25-27, 35-56, and 57-70, let's see what the index would look like: computers, 14, 25, 35, 57 Not too bad, but does the index user know this? It might be advisable to include an introductory note. Paula Durbin-Westby ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 15:46:56 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Jacobs Subject: Re: reminder about email viruses Hi -- I always believed that I was ok as long as I did not open an attachment. However, twice in the last month (and I suspect a third, but I could not identify the carrier message) I have been infected with a virus that piggy backs in on an e-mail address (in both cases, of people I know). In one case the problems started happening the minute I downloaded the infected message, so perhaps there is something in the download process that opens the attachment-- in any case, the technician at work said the best way to get rid of it was to delete all e-mail files and reload the program. This has worked both times. In case anyone else is watching for this, it starts with ISO and then garbage in the subject line and the sender is probably known to you and has sent you a message that appears immediately above or below the infected one. Trash it immediately and then empty the trash (advice of the technician). If you open it it has Happy 99.exe in the first line and then a bunch of garbage. Christine >> Remember, you cannot infect your computer unless you >open theattachment. >> You cannot be infected simply by opening the email >to which it isattached. > >Please be careful how your email program is >configured. It is possible to configure some mailers >to automatically open any attachments when a message >is opened. You don't want that to happen. >=== >RolyBear ICQ 1863181 (Robin Hilp) > > >_________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 16:01:50 +0000 Reply-To: connolly@neca.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dan Connolly Organization: Word For Word Indexing and Editing Services Subject: Re: page ranges Sylvia Coates wrote: >=20 > Dear All, >=20 > I have a question for you all. I've just been asked by a technical > client that they don't want me to use page ranges in the index. That is= , > even if the same material is discussed over two or more pages they only > want me to list the first page (where the discussion begins) and that i= s > all. >=20 > Now granted, I have more academic and textbook clients then technical > but I have never heard of this. I'm going to follow the client > instructions (and yes, I've already discussed this with them). However, > I'm very curious to hear what everyone else's experience might be > regarding page range instructions. In the recent issue of _The Indexer_(vol. 21, no. 3, April 1999, p. 140), there is this under "Indexes censured:" British Library: _Business, pollution and regulation_, by S. Simpson and = J. Carless (1997, x, 124 pp, =A337). Rev. by (SI member) Moyra Forrest, _Lib= rary Association Record_, 100 (9), Sept. 1998. "The index is not good. Adjectives (see ethical) are not normally stand-a= lone index entries; and page numbers usually show the span of treatment of a subject, not just the first page." I guess you know how Moyra feels./Dan --=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D Daniel A. Connolly mailto:connolly@neca.com Word For Word Indexing Services http://www.wfwIndex.necaweb.com Woodstock, CT, USA =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 15:01:30 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael L. Olason" Subject: Re: CINDEX/HTML MJB, It's not time consuming if you the SUB command to put the HTML tags in each Cindex record. I use Cindex DOS, but I'm sure that Cindex Windows would also do this. For example, if you want to put in front of each main entry, and you want at the end of each main entry, you would... SUB/FIELD=1/PAT ?* replace with ~\&~ that replaces each main entry with the HTML tag and the main entry and the HTML tag. You need to put a tilde in front of each < or >. You would do something similar to this with subentries (SUB/FIELD=2/PAT...) Does this help? Susan Olason ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 15:25:04 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Discount/payment time In-Reply-To: <199906150407.XAA22575@c.mx.execpc.com> I'll start offering discounts for on-time payment when clients start offering bonuses for on-time delivery. Happily, most of my clients pay promptly. I tend to drop the ones who take forever to pay or otherwise treat me shabbily (and of course do some marketing to replace them). Cheers, Carol ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:19:53 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: W: MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: page ranges In-Reply-To: <199906151512.rmd9d2.j66.37kbi17@mx9.mindspring.com> Sometimes, when the piece is going to be single sourced -- that is, used both as print and as an online document -- the page ranges are not used. That is because a multiple page discussion in a print piece often becomes 4 or 5 topics online, and online can't really use the page range. You have to repeat the keywording in each topic. Rather than edit the indexing, people ask for repetitive indexing, copy the files, reformat for online, and use the same index in both formats. You wind up with entries like: functions, 3, 4, 5, 6 but then the online piece gets the keyword in each portion, so it works fine there. Looks like heck in print, though. It's one tradeoff people make. Could this be the situation, or are they solely developing a print piece? Some print pieces also go without page ranges due to technical problems with the page layout program, usually with embedded indexing -- if it is going to take a lot of time to input codes for ranges, some people do not want to hassle with it. These are the two situations in which I have encountered it. Jan Wright At 12:11 PM 6/15/99 +0000, you wrote: >Dear All, > >I have a question for you all. I've just been asked by a technical >client that they don't want me to use page ranges in the index. That is, >even if the same material is discussed over two or more pages they only >want me to list the first page (where the discussion begins) and that is >all. > >Now granted, I have more academic and textbook clients then technical >but I have never heard of this. I'm going to follow the client >instructions (and yes, I've already discussed this with them). However, >I'm very curious to hear what everyone else's experience might be >regarding page range instructions. > >Thanks! >Best, >Sylvia Coates =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Wright Information Indexing Services http://www.wrightinformation.com Jancw@wrightinformation.com =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 16:40:56 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "M. Jessie Barczak" Subject: Re: CINDEX/HTML That's great, but I use cindex for Windows and don't want to go back to DOS ... At 03:01 PM 6/15/99 -0500, you wrote: >MJB, > >It's not time consuming if you the SUB command to put the HTML tags in >each Cindex record. I use Cindex DOS, but I'm sure that Cindex Windows >would also do this. For example, if you want to put in >front of each main entry, and you want at the end of each main >entry, you would... > >SUB/FIELD=1/PAT ?* > >replace with > >~\&~ > >that replaces each main entry with the HTML tag and the main entry and >the HTML tag. You need to put a tilde in front of each < or >. You >would do something similar to this with subentries (SUB/FIELD=2/PAT...) > >Does this help? > >Susan Olason > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:55:02 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: page ranges Dear Jan, Yes, it does seem to have something to do with their usual practice of embedding (although, this particular project is not being embedded). I've worked for years for this particular client and this is a new request by them. The editor I spoke with doesn't seem to know what the reason is (just that it is vaguely connected to the embedding process). What you have to say makes sense. One thing though, I did ask about doing repetitive entries (as per your "function" entry example), and the editor told me not to even do that. Well, whatever :-). It's pretty consistent work and they pay in two weeks. Best of all, being a technical manual, my name is no where in sight on this and won't be reviewed by anyone but the editor! But I appreciate your explanation because it does fit into what I know about their online documentation and embedding practices. Thanks again! Best, Sylvia Coates "Jan C. Wright" wrote: > Sometimes, when the piece is going to be single sourced -- that is, used > both as print and as an online document -- the page ranges are not used. > That is because a multiple page discussion in a print piece often becomes 4 > or 5 topics online, and online can't really use the page range. You have to > repeat the keywording in each topic. Rather than edit the indexing, people > ask for repetitive indexing, copy the files, reformat for online, and use > the same index in both formats. You wind up with entries like: > > functions, 3, 4, 5, 6 > > but then the online piece gets the keyword in each portion, so it works > fine there. Looks like heck in print, though. It's one tradeoff people make. > > Could this be the situation, or are they solely developing a print piece? > > Some print pieces also go without page ranges due to technical problems > with the page layout program, usually with embedded indexing -- if it is > going to take a lot of time to input codes for ranges, some people do not > want to hassle with it. > > These are the two situations in which I have encountered it. > > Jan Wright > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 18:24:32 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Tom Brown Subject: Re: page ranges Hi Sylvia, I'm a retired technical writer and wannabe free lance indexer. Where I worked, at a computer hardware/software vendor, we were instructed to use only the first page because the books were revised frequently, and the desktop publishing software we used to embed the index entries did not handle page ranges predictably once the text was significantly changed. That was about a year ago, so the software may have improved. At the time, you had a choice of several ways to designate range, such as X paragraphs or X pages from the first mention, or from first mention to the next heading of a certain level. Extensive rewriting would make any of these methods unreliable. Often a range that should have been a couple of pages would default to the end of the chapter. The editors decided that no range was better than an incorrect one. Best regards, ____ /om tombrown@mint.net * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Sylvia Coates wrote in part: ... asked by a technical client that they don't want me to use page ranges in the index. That is, even if the same material is discussed over two or more pages they only want me to list the first page (where the discussion begins) and that is all. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 19:08:25 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John Abbott Subject: Re: reminder about email viruses To everyone! Get Norton AntiVirus installed posthaste -- or any similar program. As of their latest download, there are some 40,000 viruses floating around out there. John ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 15:19:15 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: Formatting mathematical functions in the index In-Reply-To: <199906151529.IAA10614@nccn1.nccn.net> At 10:27 AM 6/15/99 -0500, Joan Terrell wrote: >I am in a group that documents graphing calculators. Our users can press a >key to insert commonly used functions, such as sine and cosine, in >expressions. However, we also provide the user with an on-line catalog from >which he or she can select functions, including, but not limited to: abs, >angle, ans, cFactor. In each instance (whether using a key or selecting >from the catalog), an opening parenthesis is pasted into the expression, >along with the function name. Using the above examples, this is what would >be pasted into the expression: sin( , cos( , abs( , angle( , ans( , >cFactor(. The user provides the closing parenthesis for each function. > >Since our manuals are routinely translated into a dozen or more languages, >we feel it is important to provide the purpose of the function. The name of >the function is not translated, but the purpose of the function is >translated. > >We would like to include functions in our indexes in order to point the user >to where they can learn more about how to use them, but need suggestions on >the format that would be best for the user. > >Using the abs( function as an example, some suggestions have been: > >abs( ), absolute value >absolute value, abs( ) > >abs( (absolute value) >(absolute value) abs( > >abs, absolute value >absolute value, abs > >If you were a user, which of the above would you prefer, or do you have >another suggestion? Do you think the function name needs to be called out >special by the use of bold, sans serif font, etc.? > >By the way, here is how the above example would look like in French, so you >need to assume that the purpose of the function won't always begin with the >same letter as in English: > >abs, valeur absolue >valeur absolue, abs Dear Joan Terrell: Depending on how functions are named in the text I would index functions including short explanations in one of these formats: abs function (absolute value) abs() function (absolute value) Surely it would be mistaken to include opening parentheses and leave out closing parentheses just because of program function entry mechanics: both together either are or are not formally included as the final element in function names. They probably are, and in all the programs I've seen it's not conventional to include a space between them. (Moreover, it seems to me that the space is unnecessary and compromises the integrity of the term.) It's also important to include the categorical word "function" in program function names. (Same goes for "formula", "argument", "command", or "dialog box", etc. in other program feature names.) Ideally I would format the characters of all program feature names in bold or italics or sans serif or monospaced font just as they're formatted in the text, but this is often not done. It's really just a judgment call for the publisher. What's more important is to make sure that in addition to indexing functions as program features you index the procedures or tasks they're designed to help the user accomplish, as in absolute value, calculating or absolute value, representing Indeed, for most of your users such task-oriented entries will be much more important than the obligatory feature entries. Once you've included all the task-oriented entries you might well find that you no longer feel the need to include short explanations in your feature entries. In the example you offer, I should think that abs() function absolute value, calculating or the equivalents in other languages would work well. Michael Brackney Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 530-272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 19:15:02 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael L. Olason" Subject: Re: CINDEX/HTML MJB, I'm sure that Cindex Windows has a SUB command or something close to it and I'm sure that there is some capability for pattern matching and replacing. If you can't find it in the User Manual, email the Cindex Support Group...they have always been VERY supportive. Another alternative would be to export the Cindex file into Word and write a macro to add the tags you want. Susan Olason ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 18:50:54 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: page range Dear All, I just wanted to report back to you regarding the question I had about page ranges for a technical document. According to messages I received both off list and on list (from Jan Wright) this has to do with the translation of the index into database software. Apparently using just a single page entry, rather than a page range, facilitates the process of translating the index into an electronic form. Now I can understand why the editor made such a request. I knew that there had to be a specific explanation for doing something so incompatible with the usual indexing practice. Thank you to all who responded. It's so nice to have this kind of resource available! Best, Sylvia Coates ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 23:04:31 -0400 Reply-To: cliffu@earthlink.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cliff Urr Subject: Concept Induction Technology at Inktomi In-Reply-To: <199906151453.HAA23238@grebe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> 0100,0100,0100Check out this article about a new indexing technology that seems to use BOTH algorithms and humans: http://www.zdnet.com/intweek/stories/news/0,4164,2275561,00.ht ml They seem to be competing with Yahoo's use of directory classification. A quote, "We wanted to combine the goodness of human classification with some heavy technology," Gauthier said, referring to existing directories created by LookSmart, Netscape Communications and Yahoo!. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 01:01:24 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeanne Moody Subject: Re: apostrophe ess This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BA_01BEB85C.EB8AD980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris's homework. See Chicago Manual of Style (14th ed), section 6.24. -----Original Message----- From: Robin Hilp To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Friday, June 11, 1999 12:46 PM Subject: apostrophe ess >Assuming the homework actually *is* done, would you >write "Chris' homework is done" or "Chris's homework >is done" -- and how would you pronounce it? >=== >RolyBear ICQ 1863181 (Robin Hilp) > > >_________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > ------=_NextPart_000_01BA_01BEB85C.EB8AD980 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; name="Jeanne C. Moody.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Jeanne C. Moody.vcf" BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Moody;Jeanne;C. FN:Jeanne C. Moody ORG:Beaver Wood Associates TEL;WORK;VOICE:603-835-7900 TEL;WORK;FAX:603-835-6279 ADR;WORK:;;P.O. Box 290;Alstead Center;NH;03602 LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:P.O. Box 290=0D=0AAlstead Center, NH 03602 EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:jcmoody@top.monad.net REV:19990617T050124Z END:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_01BA_01BEB85C.EB8AD980-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 06:33:30 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Yves_Fran=E7ois_Jeaurond?= Subject: Clawback Clause In-Reply-To: <199906141607.MAA02398@mag1.magmacom.com> Aaaah, the clawback clause. Isn't it refereshing? One customer wanted me to deliver and "should their client not be satisfied for up to one year after delivery, the fees paid to contractor can be recuperated from contractor". What a time bomb. Imagine if they are short on cash and unscrupulous. They would hava a right to get a refund. Never sign a contract with a clawback clause. Do leave them the right to fire you. And let them sue if they must. HTH. They will claim that they just want to protect the= mselves. Yeah right. Beware the naked man who offers you his shirt. HTH. Yves jingting@magma.ca ---------- > > At 10:44 AM 6/14/1999 +0000, Dan Connolly wrote: > > >So I looked over the contract and noted that there was language in > >it such that I could be not paid should they decide not to use the ind= ex (for > >any reason at all). This gave me a chill. Now, I had already done the = index > >and was told that it was fine, so I wasn't really concerned about not = getting > >paid for this index. I signed it this time, but will cross it out and = initial > >the change next time. If it means I lose the the work, so be it. > > Good for you! I would never sign a contract that gave the publisher one= -way > permission to NOT pay me if they decide (for any reason) not to use my = work. > IMO it's reasonable to state that I will not get paid if the index is > unsatisfactory (which still leaves a question of what constitutes a > satisfactory index), but not to say that I won't get paid if they don't= use > the index...for any reason or none at all. > > >If you have several clients (3?, 5?, 10?), do you get all of your work= from > >them? Do you still get a lot of one-shot jobs from other places? Just > > wondering. > > I work for a number of publishers and packagers, but have rarely though= t of > them as "my" clients. They do lots of books, and have lots of editors = who > hire indexers. "My" editors, who are inclined to call me first, frequen= tly > have several books in need of indexing at about the same time. I may = be able > to choose among two or three different books, but rarely can I take all= of > them on at once. So naturally, "my" editor will need to have several = other > favorite indexers that he or she calls when this happens. > > I do end up working mainly for the same four or five publishers, but = also > take "one-shot" indexes from other companies. Most of the time, I will = get > repeat business from these people...and I make it a point to ASK for = other > indexes when I am contacted by a new publisher. Occasionally, though, = I do > an index (which I'm sure is satisfactory) and I never get another job = from > that company. I rarely find out why, and I suppose I would worry about = it if > I had a string of "one-index stands," so to speak. > > With the vagaries of the publishing world being what they are, I would = not > want to rely on "my" clients as a regular source of work. I never know = when > a publisher will be bought out, go out of business, merge, or fire "my" > editor. So I welcome the one-shots and work on converting them to True > Believers. > > Sonsie > sconroy@slonet.org > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 06:47:28 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Yves_Fran=E7ois_Jeaurond?= Subject: Re: Words In-Reply-To: <199906121454.KAA12312@mag1.magmacom.com> There is a daily word on the National Review W3 site too. http://www.nationalreview.com/word/word.html It is immediately amusing if you don't know the correct definition. Enjoy, Yves jingting@magma.ca ---------- > > To those interested in words and their meanings (and apparently there = are > many) I recommend World Wide Words, a weekly electronic newsletter by > Michael Quinion. More information available at: > http://www.quinion.com/words/ > > Craig Brown ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 09:28:05 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "M. Jessie Barczak" Subject: Re: CINDEX/HTML Thanks! and I will RTFM asap .. just wanted some human response to add to my own research. MJB At 07:15 PM 6/15/99 -0500, you wrote: >MJB, > >I'm sure that Cindex Windows has a SUB command or something close to it >and I'm sure that there is some capability for pattern matching and >replacing. If you can't find it in the User Manual, email the Cindex >Support Group...they have always been VERY supportive. > >Another alternative would be to export the Cindex file into Word and >write a macro to add the tags you want. > >Susan Olason > > "The bane of my existence is doing things that I know the computer could do for me." Dan Connolly, "The XML Revolution" (1 Oct. 1998) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 09:30:05 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "M. Jessie Barczak" Subject: Re: Words YEAH, BABY! GO BUCKLEY!! At 06:47 AM 6/15/99 PDT, you wrote: >There is a daily word on the >National Review W3 site too. > >http://www.nationalreview.com/word/word.html > >It is immediately amusing if you don't know >the correct definition. > >Enjoy, > >Yves >jingting@magma.ca >---------- >> >> To those interested in words and their meanings (and apparently there = >are >> many) I recommend World Wide Words, a weekly electronic newsletter by >> Michael Quinion. More information available at: >> http://www.quinion.com/words/ >> >> Craig Brown > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 06:05:51 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: page ranges In-Reply-To: <199906152034.NAA13255@nccn1.nccn.net> At 12:19 PM 6/15/99 -0700, Jan Wright in response to Sylvia Coates wrote: >Sometimes, when the piece is going to be single sourced -- that is, used >both as print and as an online document -- the page ranges are not used. >That is because a multiple page discussion in a print piece often becomes 4 >or 5 topics online, and online can't really use the page range. You have to >repeat the keywording in each topic. Rather than edit the indexing, people >ask for repetitive indexing, copy the files, reformat for online, and use >the same index in both formats. You wind up with entries like: > >functions, 3, 4, 5, 6 > >but then the online piece gets the keyword in each portion, so it works >fine there. Looks like heck in print, though. It's one tradeoff people make. Jan, in reading this it occurred to me that in Macrex and presumably in CINDEX and Sky Index too you could easily avoid the tradeoff by indexing page ranges as sequential page numbers for online presentation and then reformatting your index for printing by using the merge process to compress and concatenate these page number sequences into page ranges. And now in writing this it also occurs to me that if you had any sequential page numbers that were actually not parts of page ranges you'd have to find some way of preventing them from being compressed and concatenated during the merge. >Some print pieces also go without page ranges due to technical problems >with the page layout program, usually with embedded indexing -- if it is >going to take a lot of time to input codes for ranges, some people do not >want to hassle with it. > >These are the two situations in which I have encountered it. Sylvia, there are a couple of problems in embedding indexes in FrameMaker 5.0 and perhaps later versions (and perhaps in other embedded indexing programs too) that you you and others in your shoes might need to know about: one-page ranges (like "25-26") can turn into zero-page ranges (like "25-25") after final pagination, and sequential page numbers (like "25, 26") can turn into repeated page numbers (like "25, 25") after final pagination. (Obviously, if your client won't allow page ranges only the second problem could affect you.) If your client's embedded indexing software has these problems your client can handle them by taking time at the end of the project to find and rectify any zero-page ranges and repeated page numbers in the final version of the index -- or by having their programmer (what programmer?!) write a little script to do this, but they might not be happy about it and their proofing might be rushed and prone to error. Alternatively, you can circumvent these problems by not creating page ranges less than one running page of text long or sequential entries less than one running page of text apart. The downside of this approach is the risk that a few single page numbers might have to suffice for representing a few single-page ranges or a few pairs of sequential page numbers. Despite this risk my publisher chose this approach -- and not to include a headnote to point out the possible deficiencies! Michael Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 530-272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 11:40:18 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Schroeder Subject: ASI election There is currently a special election for Vice President of ASI between Dick Evans and Diana Witt. This election was made necessary by the fact that Joanne Clendenen, who was elected to this position, felt that she could not accept it due to some personal problems. The ballot was prepared by our board secretary, Pilar Wyman, and sent to our printer in Rochester, New York, who printed and mailed the ballots, using our mailing list. All members should have received a ballot by this time, with the exception of some new members who joined for the conference. These people are in process of receiving a ballot. If you have not received one, please notify me immediately and I will forward this list with addresses to the proper place so that ballots can be mailed. Bonnie Parks-Davies is not on this mailing list, so do not send the names to her. Due to the fact that it is critical that this position be filled as soon as possible, we cannot delay. I was in this position last year and know how critical it is to be able to start planning the meeting. With our change in dates, we are already short in planning. But I also do not want to disenfranchisement any of our members. So if you know of anyone who did not receive a ballot, please ask them to contact me. We need to receive this information by June 21, in order to get a ballot to them. Ballots need to be in the mail by June 30 and are scheduled to be counted on July 7. Sandi Schroeder President, ASI I would normally not have posted this on Index-L, but I want to reach all ASI members possible. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 09:50:41 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: conference agenda Ms. Schroeder-- Is it possible to get a copy or two of the document in which the HTML Indexer ads appeared? If so, please send them to: Brown Inc. PMB 524 7417 SW Beaverton-Hillsdale Hwy. Portland, Oregon 97225-2169 Thanks! --David ============================= David M. Brown - Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ============================= N O W A V A I L A B L E ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ Try HTML Indexer, the easiest way to create and maintain real back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 12:27:53 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Schroeder Subject: Re: conference agenda I am planning to get them out this week. While I was at the conference, my mother-in-law passed away and I have been tied up with a wake and funeral etc. Sandi -----Original Message----- From: David M. Brown To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 11:53 AM Subject: conference agenda >Ms. Schroeder-- > >Is it possible to get a copy or two of the document in which >the HTML Indexer ads appeared? > >If so, please send them to: > > Brown Inc. > PMB 524 > 7417 SW Beaverton-Hillsdale Hwy. > Portland, Oregon 97225-2169 > >Thanks! > >--David > >============================= > David M. Brown - Brown Inc. > dmbrown@brown-inc.com >============================= > >N O W A V A I L A B L E ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ > >Try HTML Indexer, the easiest way to create and maintain real >back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 12:45:46 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Fw: List Serve Posting This message is being posted on behalf of Cheryl Ferguson. (General Employment Service is a temp agency in Seattle.) If you are interested, please contact her directly. She is not a subscriber to this list. Regards, Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, WA -----Original Message----- >Amazon.com, the world leader in internet commerce, is looking for qualified >candidates with a demonstrated knowledge of subject classification and/or >category construction experience to work cross-functionally with Editorial, >Catalog, and Software Development team members to develop Browse capability >on the Amazon.com Web site. Background in librarianship, subject >classification experience and the ability to think taxonomically are >definite pluses. Interested parties may send a resume and cover letter to: >ecommercerecruiter@genemp.com. >*************************************************************************** * >***** >Cheryl Ferguson Ph:206/623-1750 >Business Development Fx:206/682-9413 > > General Employment Service > Matching People with Opportunity for Over 50 Years >*************************************************************************** * >**** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 15:34:40 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeanne Moody Subject: Re: ASI election This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BEB8D6.EA3B0080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeanne Moody and David Moody have not received ballots. -----Original Message----- From: Sandi Schroeder To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 12:44 PM Subject: ASI election >There is currently a special election for Vice President of ASI between Dick >Evans and Diana Witt. This election was made necessary by the fact that >Joanne Clendenen, who was elected to this position, felt that she could not >accept it due to some personal problems. > >The ballot was prepared by our board secretary, Pilar Wyman, and sent to our >printer in Rochester, New York, who printed and mailed the ballots, using >our mailing list. > >All members should have received a ballot by this time, with the exception >of some new members who joined for the conference. These people are in >process of receiving a ballot. If you have not received one, please notify >me immediately and I will forward this list with addresses to the proper >place so that ballots can be mailed. Bonnie Parks-Davies is not on this >mailing list, so do not send the names to her. > >Due to the fact that it is critical that this position be filled as soon as >possible, we cannot delay. I was in this position last year and know how >critical it is to be able to start planning the meeting. With our change in >dates, we are already short in planning. > >But I also do not want to disenfranchisement any of our members. So if you >know of anyone who did not receive a ballot, please ask them to contact me. >We need to receive this information by June 21, in order to get a ballot to >them. Ballots need to be in the mail by June 30 and are scheduled to be >counted on July 7. > >Sandi Schroeder >President, ASI > >I would normally not have posted this on Index-L, but I want to reach all >ASI members possible. > ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BEB8D6.EA3B0080 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; name="Jeanne C. Moody.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Jeanne C. Moody.vcf" BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Moody;Jeanne;C. FN:Jeanne C. Moody ORG:Beaver Wood Associates TEL;WORK;VOICE:603-835-7900 TEL;WORK;FAX:603-835-6279 ADR;WORK:;;P.O. Box 290;Alstead Center;NH;03602 LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:P.O. Box 290=0D=0AAlstead Center, NH 03602 EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:jcmoody@top.monad.net REV:19990617T193440Z END:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BEB8D6.EA3B0080-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 15:44:43 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeanne Moody Subject: Re: company/name indexes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008D_01BEB8D8.51B95620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sometimes, depending on readership, it is deemed politic to index all company and personal names--even those mentioned in passing. Seeing one's name in an index can be a small ego-boost and possibly help sales (or retain members). In indexing newsletters for nonprofit groups, I even index the names of people appearing in group photographs. One year I indexed a town history. Those selling the book told me that the first thing people looked at was the names index to see if they had been mentioned in the book. Jeanne Moody. -----Original Message----- From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Monday, June 14, 1999 1:23 PM Subject: company/name indexes >Hi all, >I've got a question about what you include when doing company/name indexes. >It's been a long time since I've been asked to do any (thank God!). Anyway, >my instinct is to add companies and people who have actually been discussed >in some way, not all the companies and people just mentioned in passing. >Opinions please? >Thanks >Leslie >Frank Words Indexing and Editing > ------=_NextPart_000_008D_01BEB8D8.51B95620 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; name="Jeanne C. Moody.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Jeanne C. Moody.vcf" BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Moody;Jeanne;C. FN:Jeanne C. Moody ORG:Beaver Wood Associates TEL;WORK;VOICE:603-835-7900 TEL;WORK;FAX:603-835-6279 ADR;WORK:;;P.O. Box 290;Alstead Center;NH;03602 LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:P.O. Box 290=0D=0AAlstead Center, NH 03602 EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:jcmoody@top.monad.net REV:19990617T194443Z END:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_008D_01BEB8D8.51B95620-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 20:47:37 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Preview: JavaHelp and HTML Help index tabs, too HTML Indexer 3.0 is currently in limited Beta test, and we'd like to get more feedback on this important new feature. If you're currently developing an HTML Help or JavaHelp system, and you'd like to use HTML Indexer to populate the Index tab, please send e-mail to: HI30-beta@brown-inc.com --David ============================= David M. Brown - Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ============================= N O W A V A I L A B L E ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ Try HTML Indexer 2.1, the easiest way to create and maintain real back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 21:00:01 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Subject: Posting for Index-L (fwd) Please reply to Patrick Moore, NOT to the list. I have need of an indexing service for a book project that is nearly done. Assume 475 indexable pages of hard copy will be delivered to the indexer on Monday 6/28/99. The fiield is engineering. To help estimating, I can provide several pages or a chapter as PDF files. I will provide a list of suggested key words and the glosssary to help define the subject. I can provide a single sided or duplexed printout. We wamt a Word file as output. The indexer should tell me his or her price. The indexer should tell me his or her turnaround. Thank you. Patrick Moore, Handbook Editor American Society for Nondestructive Testing 1711 Arlingate Lane PO Box 28518 Columbus, OH 43228-0518 phone 614-274-6003, ext. 224 fax 614-274-6899 e-mail pmoore@asnt.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 18:27:03 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Suellen G Kasoff Subject: Re: conference agenda What indexer ads? Suellen On Wed, 16 Jun 1999 09:50:41 -0700 "David M. Brown" writes: > >Ms. Schroeder-- > >Is it possible to get a copy or two of the document in which >the HTML Indexer ads appeared? > >If so, please send them to: > > Brown Inc. > PMB 524 > 7417 SW Beaverton-Hillsdale Hwy. > Portland, Oregon 97225-2169 > >Thanks! > >--David > >============================= > David M. Brown - Brown Inc. > dmbrown@brown-inc.com >============================= > >N O W A V A I L A B L E ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ > >Try HTML Indexer, the easiest way to create and maintain real >back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:26:01 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sally Lutz Subject: Re: signing off Index-L I am trying to temporarily sign off Index-L. Last week someone on Index-L asked for help in this same area--I noted the steps that were recommended and followed them, but I keep getting the message that I am giving the wrong information. Can anyone give me the guidelines for signing off? Thanks for any assistance. Sally Lutz ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:49:26 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Lane Subject: Re: signing off Index-L In-Reply-To: <199906171328.JAA19823@ddi.digital.net> At 09:26 AM 6/17/99 -0400, Sally Lutz wrote: >I am trying to temporarily sign off Index-L. . . >I keep getting the message that I am giving the wrong >information. If it's only temporary: Send a message to LISTSERV@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU with the following in the message part: SET INDEX-L NOMAIL If it's permanent, then SIGNOFF INDEX-L [Upper- or lowercase doesn't matter.] Make sure that any automatic signatures you normally use are turned off, since the listserver software won't recognize them. If you want to send me a copy of the message you're sending and the one you get in return, I'd be happy to take a look and see if anything looks incorrect. Karen Lane klane@klane.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 11:01:33 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jan Williams Subject: pricing journal indexes Dear Collective Wisdom, I'm trying to figure out some parameters for how to charge for journal indexing, in response to a request from a potential client. I've never done journal work before. From what little I know about it, the task is quite straightforward: three to five listings per article, based on the metatopic, and using an already established thesaurus. The topic is in the medical arena, and is very familiar to me. I'd appreciate replies to me directly, since I use IndexL in digest form. Thanks so much. Jan Williams jan.williams@valley.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:09:25 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Monika Antonelli Subject: Another Exciting ALA Forum! Presented by MOUSS Research and Statistics Committee The RUSA MOUSS Research and Statistics Committee presents its Fifth Annual = Reference Research Forum on Saturday, June 26, 1999 at 2:00 - 4:00 pm in = R04-05 Convention Center. Three research projects in the field of reference services will be = presented by their authors, with a discussion following. This year the = presenters are: "Effectiveness of Strategies Employed by Unassisted Library Users in = Selecting Electronic Resources: Implications for Reference Service" by = Leroy Smith, Humanities Liaison Librarian, Colorado College This presentation reports on the results of a small-scale, informal survey = of 100 student patrons accessing online resources in the lobby of a small = academic library. The researcher asked students why they selected the = resources they were using and then made a determination of whether or not = resources being used were appropriate given the patrons' stated needs. The = researcher then examined the effects of the variables of gender, class = year, departmental major, whether or not patrons had received library = instruction, and the reasons patrons gave for resource selection on = whether or not they had selected appropriate sources. Search strategies = of patrons accessing sites on the World Wide Web were also noted. The = relationship between patron satisfaction with results and whether or not = the researcher felt the source was appropriate was also examined. Results = indicate that patrons using electronic resources do not always ask for the = help that they need and that reference librarians may need to become more = proactive, more aggressive in offering reference service in the electronic = age. "Evaluation of Reference Service Using a Hierarchical Linear Model: = Applying Multiple Regression to a Multi-level Research Design" by Matthew = L. Saxton, Reference Coordinator, Santa Ana College What are reliable indicators for both reference performance and the = independent variables that contribute to high levels of reference = performance? How do we measure the multi-dimensional nature of the = reference outcome? 3500 reference queries were recorded at 13 public = libraries in Southern California during October 1998. Librarians were = asked to write down the query and how it was resolved. These responses = were then matched to a survey completed by the library user. The study = employed a multi-level research design that can account for the effects of = intra-class correlation that arise as the result of gathering multiple = observations from each library and librarian participating in the study. = Intra-class effects tend to diminish the value of the standard error, = misleading the investigator into believing that a relationship between = variables has been discovered which does not necessarily exist. Although = many previous studies have focused on a single outcome variable, this = analysis measured the influence of fifteen predictors on three criterion = variables: the accuracy of the information received by the inquirer, the = utility of that information, and the inquirer's satisfaction with the = reference process. Findings indicate that the three criterion variables = are not correlated, suggesting that each outcome is driven by different = factors in the reference process. The potential impact of the discovery of = a reliable and valid means of measuring reference service is the significan= t improvement of reference service, improvement of training for reference = work, and the improvement of education for reference work. "Help-seeking in An Electronic World: The Impact of Electronic Access to = Community Information (CI) on Citizens' Information Behavior and Public = Libraries" by Karen E. Pettigrew , Research Fellow, University of Michigan = School of Information and Joan C. Durrance, Professor, University of = Michigan School of Information An unprecedented, two-year study funded by the U.S. and Canadian government= s. Using multiple methods, we are collecting data from Internet users, = librarians and local service providers in three states. Beyond investigati= ng citizens' online information behavior when seeking help for everyday = situations, we are developing a framework that librarians can use to = evaluate networked CI services. This framework includes perspectives of = users, librarians, and collaborators within the social context of anytime = and multiple place use. For RUSA, we will share interim results from our = Stage One national survey of public library involvement in Internet CI = delivery. In addition to presenting baseline data, we will discuss = effects on reference services (e.g., types of questions patrons ask, types = of help they require when searching CI online, staff training needs, etc), = and librarians' perceptions of community benefits. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 12:39:03 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Robert Brod Subject: Russian names Dear group: I'm working on an index with loads of Russian names, some of which have varied spellings. The editor has told me to use the modified Library of Congress transliterations, not the strict LoC version. To complicate things, the strict version appears in the endnotes to some chapters and the modified version in the text. But for some persons the first name is given only in the notes. I am finding Aleksandr/Alexander, Feedor/Fyodor, Adreevich/Adreyevich and the like. Not all these are well known names, i.e., not in Webster's Biographical. Can someone enlighten me as to which is the modified version? TIA, Mary Brod Brod Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 02:02:40 PM Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: E: "From:"/"Sender:" field is missing. From: Undetermined origin c/o Postmaster Subject: Fwd: Host Adult Webhosting starting at only $39.95 per month. Call for details 407-599-5253 ******************************* Complete Turn Key Adult Website only $3500.00. You will not find an easier or more complete way to enter the lucrative online adult industry. We design it, program it, provide all the content, set up the merchant account and billing system, and help you market it. 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More details will = be posted soon. = FIRST ASI CAROLINA CONFERENCE Saturday, October 2, 1999 Durham, NC (location arrangements pending) Cost: $75 for ASI members / $90 for non-ASI members Learn the skills you will need tomorrow! Please join us and be among the= first to see demos of new indexing tools at the First ASI Carolina Conference. The theme of conference is Getting Down to Business with Indexing Tools! CONFERENCE AGENDA: 8:00 - 9:00 AM Registration and Networking 9:00 - 10:20 AM The Business of Being in Business = presented by Janet Perlman of Southwest = Indexing (http://www.marisol.com/ southwestindexing.home.htm) of Phoenix. 10:20-10:30 AM Break / Refreshments 10:30-Noon Kamm Schreiner, founder of SKY Software (http://www.sky-software.com), Lineboro, = MD, will demo SKY Index Professional as = well as his new embedded indexing software. Noon-1:00 PM Lunch (included with registration) 1:00-2:00 PM Kamm Schreiner (continued) 2:00-2:10 PM Break / Refreshments 2:10-5:00 PM William Meisheid, founder of Sageline = Publishing (http://wgm.sageline.com), will = demo his new embedded indexing = software products. Conference registration includes admission to all three presentations and= demos, lunch, and refreshments. If space allows, we will accept registrations at the door; however, becau= se we expect a large attendance at this conference, we suggest that you register in advance. For more information and/or registration form, please contact Dick Evans (infodex@mindspring.com), Maxine M. Okazaki (mokazaki@acpub.duke.edu), or= Lori Lathrop (LoriLathrop@compuserve.com). Lori Lathrop (LoriLathrop@compuserve.com) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 14:39:42 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Anita Levy Subject: Discount/payment time Much to my surprise I have found that late payers do pay the 1%/month "collection" fee that I tack on after 30 days. Especially if you're dealing with an Accounts Payable Department of a reputable company who somehow lost your invoice or let it fall through the cracks. My repeat invoice, after 30 days, explains that the additional charge covers my time, postage and possible phone contact for contacting them. They seem to understand. Of course, if it's somebody who didn't planned to pay you anyway, they won't pay the extra charge either. But that's a different matter. Anita Levy Space Coast Indexers, Inc. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 15:28:53 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" Subject: Re: Russian names If someone does know the answers to the Russian name question, please post to the list, as I often have the same problmes within a work (Andreevich and Andreyevich, Alexander and Aleksandr). I generally index them as written and send a query to the author but haven't heard anything definitive. I don't presume to change the spelling myself. Paula Durbin-Westby dwindex@louisa.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:07:24 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elliot Linzer Subject: Please resend e-mail to me To any INDEX-L subscribers who wrote to me at my e-mail address over the past two weeks, please re-send your messages. I had been having some computer problems and was out-of-touch from about June 4th to about June 14th. Once everything was working again, I received about 350 e-mails. Finally, I accidently deleted everything in my InBox before I got to read most of the messages. So, the half-dozen of you who send me something, please try again. To the rest of you, sorry for wasting your time with this message. | Elliot Linzer | 43-05 Crommelin Street | Flushing, New York 11355 | (718) 353-1261 | elinzer@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 06:47:30 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Yves_Fran=E7ois_Jeaurond?= Subject: Re: Discount/payment time In-Reply-To: <199906171845.OAA08418@mail3.magma.ca> Why be so timid? A penalty of 18%, compounded monthly tends to catch the accountant's eye pretty quickly --as it should; just like if the bill were from Mastercard or Visa. Cordially, Yves jingting@magma.ca ---------- > > Much to my surprise I have found that late payers do pay the 1%/month > "collection" fee that I tack on after 30 days. Especially if you're dea= ling > with an Accounts Payable > Department of a reputable company who somehow lost your invoice or let = it > fall through the cracks. > My repeat invoice, after 30 days, explains that the additional charge = covers > my time, postage and possible phone contact for contacting them. They = seem to > understand. > > Of course, if it's somebody who didn't planned to pay you anyway, they = won't > pay the extra charge either. But that's a different matter. > > Anita Levy > Space Coast Indexers, Inc. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:29:00 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: Discount/payment time In-Reply-To: <92970635701@voyager.together.net> Well, the guy I sent that invoice with the billing history to did send a check that arrived yesterday, but surprise surprise, didn't pay the finance charges, which amount to around 6 and a half bucks. I don't plan to go after that, but I have notified him that he signed a contract agreeing to pay finance charges, and that all future work will now be on a pay in advance basis, which he has agreed to. We'll see . . . He might be looking for another indexer . . . I agree with Carol that I wouldn't give a discount for paying on time. That's what they're supposed to do! The electric company doesn't give me a break when I pay in advance, etc. Well, more later, Rachel Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric racric ICQ 31476947 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 09:57:49 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Discount/payment time Rachel, You go, girl! We have to make our point, no matter how small we are as a company. I have a major publisher, and long-time client, who has become a problem as a slow payer. I work for 3 of their offices around the country. The A/P is centralized in a 4th location. Editors aren't aware of how slowly the freelancers get paid. I'm currently waiting for payment for 2 small jobs, totaling less than $1,000, and the invoices are over 6 weeks old. This is inexcusable to me. They are not financially strapped. They are just taking advantage of me. The editors value my work. I will certainly try to make my point, next time any of them offer me work, that I am putting them on notice that I will not keep accepting jobs if they don't pay in 30 days. We all have work to do in this arena. As for penalties - they are unenforceable, unless you have a lot of time and a kid/spouse/sibling who is an attorney and will help out. Otherwise, I wouldn't waste my time for all the hassle it will be. The long-distance phone calls will eat up any penalty I'd collect! Janet Perlman SOUTHWEST INDEXING ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 10:16:42 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: Discount/payment time At 09:57 AM 6/18/99 EDT, JPerlman@AOL.COM wrote: As for penalties - they are >unenforceable, unless you have a lot of time and a kid/spouse/sibling who is >an attorney and will help out. Otherwise, I wouldn't waste my time for all >the hassle it will be. The long-distance phone calls will eat up any penalty >I'd collect! All-- I have tried the penalty thing, too, and it is always ignored. There was one author who just ignored my repeated e-mails that she still owed me $8.50 from the original invoice--apparently she was splitting the fee with a co-author (he paid the $658.50, but this individual had the university accounting office pay me a flat $650.00 and I never did get the $8.50). I gave up, as she never would answer me. It wasn't the money so much as the unspoken sense that I wasn't being taken very seriously, as afterall I didn't have a prestigious university or company name in my addtess! I just don't understand this behavior unless it is that we are considered to be such small potatoes that no one takes us seriously when it comes to money, either in pay rates or timely payments. I get the feeling that if you work out of your house that the image perceived by some people is that of a bored housewife or a back-to-the-land hippie freak making pin money. I agree that if we tried to weasel out of paying any electric bill or water bill or doctor's bill or plumber's bill that we would soon be looking at a collection agency representative's foot prying open our front door and a damaged credit rating. Until we can prove definitively that indexes make for a better bottom line for our clients' products, I suspect that we will not have the clout we need to demand more pay and to collect that money in a timely manner. Just my 2 cents. Cynthia ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen Bertelsen Indexing and Editorial Services Specialties: Food History, Nutrition and Foods, Cookbooks, Food Writing cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.usit.com/cbertel/ "When we no longer have good cooking in the world, we will have no literature, nor high and sharp intelligence, nor friendly gatherings, no social harmony." --Careme ****************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 09:14:42 -0700 Reply-To: writelin@whidbey.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ockey Subject: PNW-ASI Summer Meeting The Pacific Northwest Chapter of the American Society of Indexers announc= es its Summer 1999 meeting: Saturday, July 24, 1999, 10:00am-5:00pm Pacific Northwest National Laboratory Snoqualmie Conference Room (EESB) Richland, Washington Introduction to Indexing and Editing Indexes Kari Kells, Instructor In this all-day workshop, we will discuss the basics of indexing: choosin= g entries, phrasing, alphabetization, and structure. We will also cover editing indexes for consistency, structure, and usability. Each participant will be sent a short text (5-10 pages) to index PRIOR TO the workshop. Participants will return their indexes to Kari, who will read and evaluate each index before the workshop, giving each participant personal feedback. During the workshop, participants' indexes will be compared to the published index and to those created by other participant= s. This workshop is geared to the beginning (or potential) indexer who alrea= dy has some understanding of indexing skills. Experienced indexers are strongly encouraged to attend, to add their valuable "real world" experience to indexing discussions and to network with chapter members. A founding member and past Chairperson of PNW-ASI, Kari Kells has been indexing since 1994. She holds a Master's in Library and Information Science from the University of Illinois, teaches the USDA Basic Indexing course, and presents her own Indexing Basics seminars. Registrations must be received no later than June 25 so that participants can receive the homework assignment, complete the sample index, and send the assignment to Kari by July 10. For information on local hotels, contact Drew Proctor (dproctor@oneworld.owt.com). Kristin Manke can provide information on staying with PNW-ASI members in the Tri-Cities area (feldman@3-cities.com= ), and Sue Carver has information on transportation options (Scarver@aol.com= ). Be sure to keep track of your mileage; awards will be given to everyone who travels to the meeting! There will be an informal dinner gathering after the meeting; let Kristin know if you plan to attend. Kristin Manke will be hosting our meeting at her employer, Pacific Northwest National Laboratory. Getting to the meeting site (Energy and Environmental Sciences Building, 3230 Q Street) is easy. From the Highwa= y 240 entrance to Stevens Drive, go north 2.6 miles. On your right, you'll pass Curie Street and the KinderCare building. Turn right on to Battelle Blvd. Sycamore trees surround the complex, so you'll know you're close when you see them on your right. Drive 0.3 miles and turn left onto Q Street. Go to the second building on your right, and you're there! More parking is available behind the building. From the Highway 240 George Washington Way (GWW) exit, go to the second stop light (Comstock Street).= =20 Go through the light and drive 5.45 miles, passing the Best Western Tower Inn and a 7-11 (both on your left). At the stoplight on GWW and Battelle Blvd., turn left and drive 0.2 miles. Turn right onto Q Street. Go to t= he second building on your right, and voil=E0! More parking is available be= hind the building. To access a map to the site, go to http://picturethis.pnl.gov/picturet.nsf/f/uv?open&SMAA-3WES3 Cost is $30 for ASI members, $35 for non-members. Fee includes lunch and participation in "Ask an Indexer" If you have questions, contact Randl Ockey (writelin@whidbey.net or 360-387-4559) or Kristin Manke (feldman@3-cities.com or 509-372-6011, daytime) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 12:29:57 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Discount/payment time Janet wrote: << They are not financially strapped. They are just taking advantage of me. The editors value my work. I will certainly try to make my point, next time any of them offer me work, that I am putting them on notice that I will not keep accepting jobs if they don't pay in 30 days. >> This started happening to me with a big university press--the A/P department said they couldn't pay within 30 days (it was being more like 6 weeks). I asked them if I could send my invoices in early (before the index is finished) so that the time would come out to 30 days. They refused; I mentioned it to one of my editors, who told the managing editor, who told the A/P department that I was a valuable freelancer whom they wanted to keep. I got a call back in about 15 minutes saying I could submit indexes early! That was a nice confidence booster. And submitting early could be a solution for publishers whose excuse is the amount of time it takes to process the invoice. Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 12:34:39 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: Discount/payment time Indexes or invoices submitted early??? I can see that payment would come faster if indexes were submitted earlier!! Cynthia At 12:29 PM 6/18/99 EDT, DStaub11@AOL.COM wrote: > >This started happening to me with a big university press--the A/P department >said they couldn't pay within 30 days (it was being more like 6 weeks). I >asked them if I could send my invoices in early (before the index is >finished) so that the time would come out to 30 days. They refused; I >mentioned it to one of my editors, who told the managing editor, who told the >A/P department that I was a valuable freelancer whom they wanted to keep. I >got a call back in about 15 minutes saying I could submit indexes early! >That was a nice confidence booster. And submitting early could be a solution >for publishers whose excuse is the amount of time it takes to process the >invoice. > >Do Mi > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 12:45:21 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Discount/payment time At 12:29 PM 6/18/1999 EDT, DStaub11@AOL.COM wrote: >And submitting early could be a solution for publishers whose excuse is >the amount of time it takes to process the invoice. This has always been a pet peeve of mine! How long does it take to write a check? Why on EARTH do these larger companies get away with claiming it takes over 30 days to meet their payments? There's no way on earth, with a complete accounting/AP department, that paying invoices should take more than a week or so, provided they are submitted in a timely manner and there's nothing important missing. Do you think the phone company or the electric company would accept our excuse that it takes longer than a month to process their payment request? How long do you think your credit card would be in your possession if you didn't pay your bill by THEIR deadline? I say it's spinach, and I say to hell with it. (From my favorite old New Yorker cartoon...) Sonsie sconroy@slonet.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 16:19:07 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Discount/payment time Cynthia wrote: << Indexes or invoices submitted early??? I can see that payment would come faster if indexes were submitted earlier!! >> Invoices! The idea is to send the invoice in a week before the index is done, so that they can get started processing it. I'm doing this with a publisher and a packager now. Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 17:47:36 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "S. Greenhouse" Subject: Re: Discount/Payment time I did a freelance job for a friend, working on a database for his company. I used one of my standard invoices, with "Net: 30 days" on the bottom. When I turned in the work, I gave him the invoice and he said it would be paid in the next check cycle. After 3 weeks, I called to check on the invoice and he got right on it. He advised me to change my invoice to say "Net: Upon receipt" or "Net: 7 days" because of the way AP departments work. His accounting department put my invoice in the "pay in 30 days pile" (his words) _because_ I had "Net: 30 " on my invoice. AP departments (at least his) held onto the bill until the last possible moment, getting the most for the company's money (earning interest for the company). I immediately changed all my invoices to say "Net: Upon receipt" to see if that sped up my reimbursement from some of my freelance jobs. So far, I've gotten one check 2 weeks earlier, and one check 1 week earlier than I normally would have. Sonsie wrote: >Do you think the phone company or the electric company would accept our >excuse that it takes longer than a month to process their payment request? >How long do you think your credit card would be in your possession if you >didn't pay your bill by THEIR deadline? We don't delay payment on these bills because the late fees and non-payment penalties have teeth in them. Having no ability to enforce late fees other than through the graciousness of the editors we work through impedes our ability to collect in a timely fashion. It seems from other postings once an AP department realizes it can stiff a freelancer for a few weeks, they continue to take advantage of this. It also sounds like some of the late fees are so small as to be ignorable. Perhaps if the fee was compounded daily and built up quickly that would grab the AP depot's attention. Sending a new bill directly to the AP department would seem to be another key. Just my $0.02 (when did the cents character go away? Remember the one that used to be above the numbers on typewriters? Which number was it??? I'm getting old.) Shelley Greenhouse database indexer ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 15:05:39 -0700 Reply-To: nkoenig Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: nkoenig Subject: Re: Discount/payment time I have always suspected that this delay is in their interest. The longer a payment is delayed, the longer interest can accrue on the money. Of course, some companies may have cash flow problems and are delaying just because they are waiting for someone else to pay them. Maybe someone who has worked in one of these departments will tell us for sure. > >This has always been a pet peeve of mine! How long does it take to write a >check? Why on EARTH do these larger companies get away with claiming it >takes over 30 days to meet their payments? There's no way on earth, with a >complete accounting/AP department, that paying invoices should take more >than a week or so, provided they are submitted in a timely manner and >there's nothing important missing. > These guys have the power to enforce their invoices by turning off their services or destroying credit ratings. Freelance indexers don't have that clout and publishers know it. >Do you think the phone company or the electric company would accept our >excuse that it takes longer than a month to process their payment request? >How long do you think your credit card would be in your possession if you >didn't pay your bill by THEIR deadline? > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 15:10:09 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Discount/Payment time At 05:47 PM 6/18/1999 -0400, S. Greenhouse wrote: >Having no ability to enforce late fees other than through the >graciousness of the editors we work through impedes our >ability to collect in a timely fashion. It seems from other >postings once an AP department realizes it can stiff a >freelancer for a few weeks, they continue to take advantage >of this. It also sounds like some of the late fees are so >small as to be ignorable. Perhaps if the fee was compounded >daily and built up quickly that would grab the AP depot's >attention. Sending a new bill directly to the AP department >would seem to be another key. Well, perhaps it's time to drag out my hoary old war stories. I've been stiffed several times in my lengthy career, and I'm proud to say that in all but one case, I managed to collect. My particular favorite involved a complex editing job I did for a very well-known publisher of literary-type work...a traditional small press with a great reputation. This particular book ended up involving possible libel (didn't somebody else deal with something similar recently?), and I got the company's permission, in writing, to deal directly with the author, who lived in New York, and to charge them for all my long-distance calls. The calls alone mounted up to about $200 over the course of the job, plus another $&00 or so for the editing. This was at least 15 years ago, so the fee would be much higher now. Anyway, they simply would not pay, with a million excuses to offer. I tried everything, then took them to Small Claims Court and won my judgment. Still no payment! So I took the final step and recorded a lien against any real estate the publishers owned in the state of CA. (When you record this lien, you can do so without paying for a search. It simply attaches to ANY real estate, whether it's an office building, a private home, whatever.) Time passed, and I forgot the whole thing. About five years later, I got a legal-looking document in the mail...the publisher had died, his oceanfront mansion was being sold through probate, and MY LIEN had to be satisfied before the sale could be completed! All those years, at 18% per year compounded daily, really mounted up. I forget the exact figure, but I got over three times what was owed me by the time all was said and done. It had cost me about $25 in legal fees...and of course a lot of patient waiting. I felt wonderfully vindicated, but also a little creeped out by =how= I had got my money. Sonsie sconroy@slonet.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 06:22:36 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Re: Discount/Payment time Shelly's comment re the "Net 30 days" statement as an excuse for delaying payment makes a LOT of sense to me. How many of us actually pay a bill as soon as it's received? I'm quite sure I'm not the only one who delays paying bills until "just in time" to avoid payment penalties. Why should AP departments be any different? So it seems that "Net upon receipt" would definitely move the invoice up in the stack. Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, Washington ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 06:38:29 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Re: pricing journal indexes For most of my journal indexes (medical and library science) I charge by the hour. Alternatively, you can do a sample index for one or more issues and calculate a per-article, per-page, or per-issue rate from that. (If you're doing a long retrospective cumulated index, be sure to get sample issues from several different years since the characteristics of the publication may change over time.) And remember to add extra time for the edit, and for verifying author names if you're also doing the author index. The important think in pricing any journal index is to clarify upfront what's indexable: letters to the editor? ads? book reviews? brief news notes? abstracts from other journals? You also need to see enough issues (particularly if you're not billed hourly) to determine if the content is consistent between issues (same number of indexable pages; same mix of major articles vs. non-indexable material; any regularly recurring special material, such as meeting proceedings). Good luck, Carolyn Weaver ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 12:48:47 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop Subject: eBooks All -- For those of you interested in electronic books, take a look at th= e article in the online version of Publisher's Weekly (http://www.publishersweekly.com) and the Open eBook Specification Recommendations (http://www.openebook.org). Happy indexing! .... Lori ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 10:07:17 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Julie K on NPR's TOTN Yesterday's guest on National Public Radio's "Talk of the Nation" was the author of "Annals of the Ancient World" (I hope I have the title right). He had gracious and glowing praise for Julie Kawabata, the index she created, and the value it added to the book as a reference work. Congratulations, Julie! --David ============================= David M. Brown - Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ============================= N O W A V A I L A B L E ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ Try HTML Indexer, the easiest way to create and maintain real back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 12:00:18 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Caroline Parks Subject: Re: Julie K on NPR's TOTN In-Reply-To: <199906191310.rmnjot.oc.37kbi15@mx7.mindspring.com> Way to go, Julie!!! Caroline At 10:07 AM 6/19/99 -0700, you wrote: >Yesterday's guest on National Public Radio's "Talk of the Nation" was >the author of "Annals of the Ancient World" (I hope I have the title >right). > >He had gracious and glowing praise for Julie Kawabata, the index she >created, and the value it added to the book as a reference work. > >Congratulations, Julie! > >--David > >============================= > David M. Brown - Brown Inc. > dmbrown@brown-inc.com >============================= > >N O W A V A I L A B L E ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ > >Try HTML Indexer, the easiest way to create and maintain real >back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. __________________________________________________________ | | Caroline Parks -- Indexcellence | | Indexing services for Books, Technical documents, | Software documentation, and Online help systems | | Tijeras, NM | 505-286-2738 | cparks@mindspring.com | | "Asking if computers can think is like asking if submarines can swim." |_________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 15:21:25 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: ROBJRICH@AOL.COM Subject: Annals of the Former World Re Julie kwabata's NPR accolade from John McPhee: And the book won a Pulitzer prize, too! No doubt because of the Index! Not too shabby, Julie! Bob Richardson ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 16:08:21 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: ROBJRICH@AOL.COM Subject: Typo All - Re: Indexer for McPhee's "Annals of the former World" It's "Julie Kawabata", not "Julie kwabata". Sorry. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 08:13:45 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Schroeder Subject: British publications I have a few copies of the following British publications available for sale. Indexing the medical and Biological Science by Blake et al. $30 Indexing Legal Materials by Moys $25.00 Several people have inquired about the availability of Indexing Biographies by Hazel Bell. If there was enough interest, I would try to obtain additional copies. Ther would be for sale at around $27. If you are interested, please let me know. Sandi Schroeder President, ASI ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 13:34:49 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Weiss Subject: Re: British publications What is the procedure for ordering a copy of one of these publications? Sue Weiss Sandi Schroeder on 06/20/99 09:13:45 AM Please respond to Indexer's Discussion Group To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L cc: Subject: British publications I have a few copies of the following British publications available for sale. Indexing the medical and Biological Science by Blake et al. $30 Indexing Legal Materials by Moys $25.00 Several people have inquired about the availability of Indexing Biographies by Hazel Bell. If there was enough interest, I would try to obtain additional copies. Ther would be for sale at around $27. If you are interested, please let me know. Sandi Schroeder President, ASI ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 14:09:11 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Frank Subject: Re: British publications I would also be interested in learning how to order these publications. What are their publication dates? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 14:10:13 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Frank Subject: Re: British publications I would also be interested in learning how to order these publications. What are their publication dates? Sandi Frank sfrankmail@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 17:36:27 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marianne Foley Subject: Fall 99 Distance Learning Courses ** This message is posted to various listservs. ** ** Please excuse any duplication. ** -------------------------------------------------- The School of Information and Library Studies at the University at Buffalo will again formally offer graduate level courses by Internet Distance Learning during the Fall Semester of 1999 (from August 30 - December 10). Students will be able take the courses: Selection, Acquisition and Management of Non-Book Material and/or Intellectual Freedom in the privacy of their home, office, local library or any location with a computer connected to the Internet. For more information about these courses and registration, visit: http://www.sils.buffalo.edu/faculty/ellison/distance.html ** Persons with questions regarding the above two courses should contact: Dr. John Ellison at ellison@cecomet.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 18:35:21 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Homer Ellison Subject: ISO standards Can anyone tell me how I can obtain a copy of the ISO standards for indexing? Thank you. ----- Homer Ellison ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 20:20:53 -0700 Reply-To: Mary S Stephenson Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary S Stephenson Subject: Re: ISO standards In-Reply-To: Hi, Here is the information from the ISO web site [http://www.iso.ch/cate/d5446.html#0]: ############## ISO 999:1996 Information and documentation -- Guidelines for the content, organization and presentation of indexes Edition: 2 (monolingual) Number of pages: 47 Price code: R ############### Based on this price code the current cost is 117.00 Swiss Francs The current exchange rate is: 0.6518 United States Dollars per Switzerland Francs 1.5340 Switzerland Francs per United States Dollars That is, about $76.00 US, plus shipping and handling. Assuming you are in the US the standard can be ordered from ANSI: USA (ANSI) American National Standards Institute 11 West 42nd Street 13th floor New York, N.Y. 10036 Telephone:+ 1 212 642 49 00 Telefax:+ 1 212 398 00 23 E-mail:info@ansi.org Web:http://www.ansi.org/ Hope this helps, Susie Stephenson SLAIS/UBC Vancouver mss@interchange.ubc.ca On Sun, 20 Jun 1999, Homer Ellison wrote: > Can anyone tell me how I can obtain a copy of the ISO standards for > indexing? > > Thank you. > > ----- > Homer Ellison > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 07:39:12 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Sullivan, John" Subject: Re: eBooks I have to admit that I'm a bit surprised that someone's going to the trouble of developing yet another "standard"; what's wrong with PDF? John Sullivan > -----Original Message----- > From: Lori Lathrop [SMTP:LoriLathrop@COMPUSERVE.COM] > Sent: Saturday, June 19, 1999 12:49 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: eBooks > > All -- For those of you interested in electronic books, take a look at th= > e > article in the online version of Publisher's Weekly > (http://www.publishersweekly.com) and the Open eBook Specification > Recommendations (http://www.openebook.org). > > Happy indexing! .... Lori ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:26:00 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Betty Frizzell Subject: Re: British publications Hi Sandi- I would be interested in getting Hazel Bell's publication. --Betty Frizzell Frizzell Indexing Service frizzell@wolfenet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Sandi Schroeder To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Sent: Sunday, June 20, 1999 6:13 AM Subject: British publications > I have a few copies of the following British publications available for > sale. > > Indexing the medical and Biological Science by Blake et al. $30 > > Indexing Legal Materials by Moys $25.00 > > > Several people have inquired about the availability of Indexing Biographies > by Hazel Bell. If there was enough interest, I would try to obtain > additional copies. Ther would be for sale at around $27. If you are > interested, please let me know. > > > Sandi Schroeder > President, ASI > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:35:06 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Manjit Sahai Subject: Re: British publications Hi Sandy I would also be interested in buying 'Indexing Biographies' by Hazel Bell. MANJIT K. SAHAI >From: Sandi Schroeder >Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group >To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > >Subject: British publications >Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 08:13:45 -0500 > >I have a few copies of the following British publications available for >sale. > >Indexing the medical and Biological Science by Blake et al. $30 > >Indexing Legal Materials by Moys $25.00 > > >Several people have inquired about the availability of Indexing >Biographies >by Hazel Bell. If there was enough interest, I would try to obtain >additional copies. Ther would be for sale at around $27. If you are >interested, please let me know. > > >Sandi Schroeder >President, ASI _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:13:21 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" Subject: Re: British publications Please add me to your list of people interested in Hazel Bell's book. I tried to order it through my local B&N and they said it was not available; I am hoping to hear from you. Paula Durbin-Westby dwindex@louisa.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:57:13 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Frank Subject: Re: British publications I would be interested in each of the publications you have available for sale, including Hazel Bell's. Thank you. Sandi Frank sfrankmail@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:59:53 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Schroeder Subject: Re: British publications I will add your name to the list. Sandi -----Original Message----- From: Betty Frizzell To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Monday, June 21, 1999 10:25 AM Subject: Re: British publications >Hi Sandi- > >I would be interested in getting Hazel Bell's publication. > >--Betty Frizzell >Frizzell Indexing Service >frizzell@wolfenet.com >----- Original Message ----- >From: Sandi Schroeder >To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L >Sent: Sunday, June 20, 1999 6:13 AM >Subject: British publications > > >> I have a few copies of the following British publications available for >> sale. >> >> Indexing the medical and Biological Science by Blake et al. $30 >> >> Indexing Legal Materials by Moys $25.00 >> >> >> Several people have inquired about the availability of Indexing >Biographies >> by Hazel Bell. If there was enough interest, I would try to obtain >> additional copies. Ther would be for sale at around $27. If you are >> interested, please let me know. >> >> >> Sandi Schroeder >> President, ASI >> > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:00:16 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Schroeder Subject: Re: British publications I will add your name to my list. Sandi -----Original Message----- From: Manjit Sahai To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Monday, June 21, 1999 10:36 AM Subject: Re: British publications >Hi Sandy > >I would also be interested in buying 'Indexing Biographies' by Hazel Bell. > >MANJIT K. SAHAI > > >>From: Sandi Schroeder >>Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group >>To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L >> >>Subject: British publications >>Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 08:13:45 -0500 >> >>I have a few copies of the following British publications available for >>sale. >> >>Indexing the medical and Biological Science by Blake et al. $30 >> >>Indexing Legal Materials by Moys $25.00 >> >> >>Several people have inquired about the availability of Indexing >>Biographies >>by Hazel Bell. If there was enough interest, I would try to obtain >>additional copies. Ther would be for sale at around $27. If you are >>interested, please let me know. >> >> >>Sandi Schroeder >>President, ASI > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:00:54 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Schroeder Subject: Re: British publications I will add your name to the list. Sandi -----Original Message----- From: Paula C. Durbin-Westby To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Monday, June 21, 1999 10:48 AM Subject: Re: British publications >Please add me to your list of people interested in Hazel Bell's book. I >tried to order it through my local B&N and they said it was not available; >I am hoping to hear from you. > >Paula Durbin-Westby >dwindex@louisa.net > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:02:11 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Schroeder Subject: Re: British publications I will add your name to the list for Hazel Bell's. But for the other two, send a check payable to ASI to me at 2606 Old Mill Lane, Rolling Meadows, IL 60008. Sandi Schroeder -----Original Message----- From: Sandi Frank To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Monday, June 21, 1999 10:59 AM Subject: Re: British publications >I would be interested in each of the publications you have available for >sale, including Hazel Bell's. > >Thank you. > >Sandi Frank >sfrankmail@aol.com > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:19:59 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Frank Subject: Re: British publications How much should the check be? Sandi Frank sfrankmail@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:40:00 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Schroeder Subject: Re: British publications The legal one is $25 and the medical one is $35. I am pretty sure I will be able to get the Bell one, but that is not confirmed. So only include a check for the other two. Sandi -----Original Message----- From: Sandi Frank To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Monday, June 21, 1999 11:20 AM Subject: Re: British publications >How much should the check be? > >Sandi Frank >sfrankmail@aol.com > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 13:16:42 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Joel S. Berson" Subject: Re: signing off Index-L I believe (but am not certain) that one must sign off from (or perform other actions on) a listserve list using the same email address that one is currently registered with. I wonder if some of those trying to sign of index-l are failing because they are using a new email address. Karen Lane wrote: > > At 09:26 AM 6/17/99 -0400, Sally Lutz wrote: > >I am trying to temporarily sign off Index-L. . . > >I keep getting the message that I am giving the wrong > >information. > > If it's only temporary: > > Send a message to > > LISTSERV@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU > > with the following in the message part: > > SET INDEX-L NOMAIL > > If it's permanent, then > > SIGNOFF INDEX-L > > [Upper- or lowercase doesn't matter.] > > Make sure that any automatic signatures you normally > use are turned off, since the listserver software won't > recognize them. > > If you want to send me a copy of the message you're > sending and the one you get in return, I'd be happy > to take a look and see if anything looks incorrect. > > Karen Lane > klane@klane.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 16:50:10 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jack Lewis Subject: names and chronological order This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BEBC06.1FA9CD00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Friends, =20 I am indexing a biography on Carl Sagan and have come across references = to half a dozen names that I do not know how to index. The names are: = Chou Wen Chung, Su Shu Huang, Kuan P'ing-Hu, Kazuaki Iwasaki, Surshri = Kesar Bai Kerkar, and the 14th Dalai Lama. If anyone can help on the = proper form for these names I would appreciate it. The first three names = are Chinese, the fourth is Japanese, the fifth Indian, and the Dalai = Lama of course is Tibetan. By the way the Dalai Lama is referred to in = the book only as the Dalai Lama. Would he be indexed by that or by his = full name and title, by both? A referral to a reference where I could = look up these names would also be useful.=20 =20 A second question I have regards the order of the index. In looking at = Nancy Mulvany's book I see that biographies are often ordered = chronologically rather than alphabetically. Is it possible or proper to = mix two types of ordering. For example I would like to order most of the = index alphabetically, but there is one group of entries that list the = main events of Sagan's life. This group of entries I would like to list = chronologically. Any feedback on this? Thanks. =20 Jack Lewis =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BEBC06.1FA9CD00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Friends,
 
I am indexing a biography on Carl = Sagan and have=20 come across references to half a dozen names that I do not know how to = index.=20 The names are: Chou Wen Chung, Su = Shu Huang,=20 Kuan P'ing-Hu, Kazuaki Iwasaki, Surshri Kesar Bai Kerkar, and the 14th = Dalai=20 Lama. If anyone can help on the proper form for these names I would = appreciate=20 it. The first three names are Chinese, the fourth is Japanese, the fifth = Indian,=20 and the Dalai Lama of course is Tibetan. By the way the Dalai Lama is = referred=20 to in the book only as the Dalai Lama. Would he be indexed by that or by = his=20 full name and title, by both? A referral to a reference where I could = look up=20 these names would also be useful.
 
 A second question I have = regards the order=20 of the index. In looking at Nancy Mulvany's book I see that biographies = are=20 often ordered chronologically rather than alphabetically.  Is it = possible=20 or proper to mix two types of ordering. For example I would like to = order most=20 of the index alphabetically, but there is one group of entries that list = the=20 main events of Sagan's life. This group of entries I would like to list=20 chronologically. Any feedback on this?  Thanks.
 
Jack Lewis
 
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BEBC06.1FA9CD00-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:19:55 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Homer Ellison Subject: Looking for book Does anyone know where I can purchase a copy Choice and Form of Entries, by Pat F. Booth? It seems to be out of print. Thank you, ----- Homer Ellison ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 19:39:59 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Schroeder Subject: Re: Looking for book It is listed on the back cover of the latest issue of the Indexer. It says it is available from Sales Administrator, Society of Indexers, Globe Centre, Penistone Rd., sheffield, S6 3 AE. And is $60 U.S. Sandi Schroeder -----Original Message----- From: Homer Ellison To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Monday, June 21, 1999 7:22 PM Subject: Looking for book >Does anyone know where I can purchase a copy Choice and Form of Entries, by >Pat F. Booth? It seems to be out of print. > >Thank you, > >----- >Homer Ellison > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:05:38 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Leonard S. Rosenbaum" Subject: names and chronological order Jack, Dalai Lama is indexed as is (alphabetized under D). For the rest of the names, _The Chicago Manual of Style_ and _Indexing from A to Z_ (by Hans Wellisch; pp. 297-299) have general guidelines for indexing names of particular nationalities. An encyclopedia, a large dictionary, or particularly a biographical dictionary (even the one at the back of Webster's Collegiate Dictionary) are good resources for looking up names = of famous persons. = Re: the order of the index: IMHO, theoretically it's ok to mix the two types of ordering, or to make an exception to most other indexing rules, = if you have a good reason for doing so and IF it won't confuse readers (thou= gh this 2nd IF is a big one and often difficult to assess). You may wish to consider including a note at the beginning of the index clarifying the ordering of subentries. By the way, does the Sagan biography say anything interesting about "Contact"? It was my all-time favorite movie. Best of luck, Leonard Rosenbaum ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 18:22:23 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: names and chronological order Chinese names are indexed as they appear because the family name is the first name (i.e. Chou Wen Chung--Chou is the family name). When Chinese names are obviously Westernized (which these name are not) then you would index them accordingly (i.e. Charlie Chan would be indexed under Chan). Regarding the Japanese name; you need to ask the editor if the Japanese names in the text are written in Japanese order (family name first) or in Western order (family name last). It can be done either way, accordingly to the author's or editor's choice, and will be consistent throughout the text. After learning which order was used for the text you can index the entries beginning with the family and following with the given name. Japanese names are not inverted while indexing as Western names. Dalai Lama should probably be indexed as it appears in the text, under the title. You can check with Chicago for more details. And as far as the sub entry order is concerned, I would just ask the editor if they have any preference. If you have strong feelings about the sub entry order I would definitely at least pass it by the editor. My experience is that most editors are pretty flexible but they don't like being surprised! Good luck, Sylvia Coates Jack Lewis wrote: > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BEBC06.1FA9CD00 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Dear Friends, > =20 > I am indexing a biography on Carl Sagan and have come across references = > to half a dozen names that I do not know how to index. The names are: = > Chou Wen Chung, Su Shu Huang, Kuan P'ing-Hu, Kazuaki Iwasaki, Surshri = > Kesar Bai Kerkar, and the 14th Dalai Lama. If anyone can help on the = > proper form for these names I would appreciate it. The first three names = > are Chinese, the fourth is Japanese, the fifth Indian, and the Dalai = > Lama of course is Tibetan. By the way the Dalai Lama is referred to in = > the book only as the Dalai Lama. Would he be indexed by that or by his = > full name and title, by both? A referral to a reference where I could = > look up these names would also be useful.=20 > =20 > A second question I have regards the order of the index. In looking at = > Nancy Mulvany's book I see that biographies are often ordered = > chronologically rather than alphabetically. Is it possible or proper to = > mix two types of ordering. For example I would like to order most of the = > index alphabetically, but there is one group of entries that list the = > main events of Sagan's life. This group of entries I would like to list = > chronologically. Any feedback on this? Thanks. > =20 > Jack Lewis > =20 > > ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BEBC06.1FA9CD00 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > > > http-equiv=3DContent-Type> HTML//EN"> > > > >
Dear Friends,
>
 
>
I am indexing a biography on Carl = > Sagan and have=20 > come across references to half a dozen names that I do not know how to = > index.=20 > The names are: Chou Wen Chung, Su = > Shu Huang,=20 > Kuan P'ing-Hu, Kazuaki Iwasaki, Surshri Kesar Bai Kerkar, and the 14th = > Dalai=20 > Lama. If anyone can help on the proper form for these names I would = > appreciate=20 > it. The first three names are Chinese, the fourth is Japanese, the fifth = > Indian,=20 > and the Dalai Lama of course is Tibetan. By the way the Dalai Lama is = > referred=20 > to in the book only as the Dalai Lama. Would he be indexed by that or by = > his=20 > full name and title, by both? A referral to a reference where I could = > look up=20 > these names would also be useful.
>
 
>
 A second question I have = > regards the order=20 > of the index. In looking at Nancy Mulvany's book I see that biographies = > are=20 > often ordered chronologically rather than alphabetically.  Is it = > possible=20 > or proper to mix two types of ordering. For example I would like to = > order most=20 > of the index alphabetically, but there is one group of entries that list = > the=20 > main events of Sagan's life. This group of entries I would like to list=20 > chronologically. Any feedback on this?  Thanks.
>
 
>
Jack Lewis
>
 
> > ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BEBC06.1FA9CD00-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:49:57 +0800 Reply-To: Ling Heang Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ling Heang Subject: Re: names and chronological order In-Reply-To: <19990622091620.053c84a2.in@kondinin.com.au> I would like to clarify the following feedback from Sylvia: "Chinese names are indexed as they appear because the family name is the first name (i.e. Chou Wen Chung--Chou is the family name). When Chinese names are obviously Westernized (which these name are not) then you would index them accordingly (i.e. Charlie Chan would be indexed under Chan)." Let's use the name Chou Wen Chung. If Chou lives in an Asian country, most likely Chou is the family name. However, if Chou lives in a Western country, probably Chung is the family name. If the name is written as Chou-Wen Chung, it is quite definite that Chung is the family name. The first name and the family name are usually not very obvious to non-Mandarin speakers as each of the character/word has its own meaning. For example my name - Ling Heang, when I am in a chinese community, I use Heang Ling. But as I live in Australia and I don't westernise my name, I follow the normal convention - Ling Heang to reduce any confusion. Regards, Ling -----Original Message----- From: Indexer's Discussion Group [mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU] On Behalf Of Sylvia Coates Sent: Tuesday, 22 June 1999 2:22 To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: Re: names and chronological order Chinese names are indexed as they appear because the family name is the first name (i.e. Chou Wen Chung--Chou is the family name). When Chinese names are obviously Westernized (which these name are not) then you would index them accordingly (i.e. Charlie Chan would be indexed under Chan). Regarding the Japanese name; you need to ask the editor if the Japanese names in the text are written in Japanese order (family name first) or in Western order (family name last). It can be done either way, accordingly to the author's or editor's choice, and will be consistent throughout the text. After learning which order was used for the text you can index the entries beginning with the family and following with the given name. Japanese names are not inverted while indexing as Western names. Dalai Lama should probably be indexed as it appears in the text, under the title. You can check with Chicago for more details. And as far as the sub entry order is concerned, I would just ask the editor if they have any preference. If you have strong feelings about the sub entry order I would definitely at least pass it by the editor. My experience is that most editors are pretty flexible but they don't like being surprised! Good luck, Sylvia Coates Jack Lewis wrote: > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BEBC06.1FA9CD00 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Dear Friends, > =20 > I am indexing a biography on Carl Sagan and have come across references = > to half a dozen names that I do not know how to index. The names are: = > Chou Wen Chung, Su Shu Huang, Kuan P'ing-Hu, Kazuaki Iwasaki, Surshri = > Kesar Bai Kerkar, and the 14th Dalai Lama. If anyone can help on the = > proper form for these names I would appreciate it. The first three names = > are Chinese, the fourth is Japanese, the fifth Indian, and the Dalai = > Lama of course is Tibetan. By the way the Dalai Lama is referred to in = > the book only as the Dalai Lama. Would he be indexed by that or by his = > full name and title, by both? A referral to a reference where I could = > look up these names would also be useful.=20 > =20 > A second question I have regards the order of the index. In looking at = > Nancy Mulvany's book I see that biographies are often ordered = > chronologically rather than alphabetically. Is it possible or proper to = > mix two types of ordering. For example I would like to order most of the = > index alphabetically, but there is one group of entries that list the = > main events of Sagan's life. This group of entries I would like to list = > chronologically. Any feedback on this? Thanks. > =20 > Jack Lewis > =20 > > ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BEBC06.1FA9CD00 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > > > http-equiv=3DContent-Type> HTML//EN"> > > > >
Dear Friends,
>
 
>
I am indexing a biography on Carl = > Sagan and have=20 > come across references to half a dozen names that I do not know how to = > index.=20 > The names are: Chou Wen Chung, Su = > Shu Huang,=20 > Kuan P'ing-Hu, Kazuaki Iwasaki, Surshri Kesar Bai Kerkar, and the 14th = > Dalai=20 > Lama. If anyone can help on the proper form for these names I would = > appreciate=20 > it. The first three names are Chinese, the fourth is Japanese, the fifth = > Indian,=20 > and the Dalai Lama of course is Tibetan. By the way the Dalai Lama is = > referred=20 > to in the book only as the Dalai Lama. Would he be indexed by that or by = > his=20 > full name and title, by both? A referral to a reference where I could = > look up=20 > these names would also be useful.
>
 
>
 A second question I have = > regards the order=20 > of the index. In looking at Nancy Mulvany's book I see that biographies = > are=20 > often ordered chronologically rather than alphabetically.  Is it = > possible=20 > or proper to mix two types of ordering. For example I would like to = > order most=20 > of the index alphabetically, but there is one group of entries that list = > the=20 > main events of Sagan's life. This group of entries I would like to list=20 > chronologically. Any feedback on this?  Thanks.
>
 
>
Jack Lewis
>
 
> > ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BEBC06.1FA9CD00-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:50:41 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: British publications Sandi, Is the medical indexing book $30 or $35? I thought your original post about the books said $30. 8-) Just want to send you a check for the correct amount. Ann Truesdale Sandi Schroeder wrote: > > The legal one is $25 and the medical one is $35. I am pretty sure I will be > able to get the Bell one, but that is not confirmed. So only include a check > for the other two. > > Sandi > > >How much should the check be? > > > >Sandi Frank > >sfrankmail@aol.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 19:37:44 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: names and chronological order Dear Ling, I was assuming that all of the Chinese names were not Westernized. However, it was very interesting to hear your clarification. Here is California, in my experience, it is pretty obvious when an Asian name has been Westernized. It is interesting to note that in Australia that might not always be the case. Thank you for sharing that information with us! Best, Sylvia Coates Ling Heang wrote: > I would like to clarify the following feedback from Sylvia: > "Chinese names are indexed as they appear because the family name is the > first > name (i.e. Chou Wen Chung--Chou is the family name). When Chinese names are > obviously Westernized (which these name are not) then you would index them > accordingly (i.e. Charlie Chan would be indexed under Chan)." > > Let's use the name Chou Wen Chung. If Chou lives in an Asian country, most > likely Chou is the family name. However, if Chou lives in a Western country, > probably Chung is the family name. If the name is written as Chou-Wen Chung, > it is quite definite that Chung is the family name. The first name and the > family name are usually not very obvious to non-Mandarin speakers as each of > the character/word has its own meaning. > > For example my name - Ling Heang, when I am in a chinese community, I use > Heang Ling. But as I live in Australia and I don't westernise my name, I > follow the normal convention - Ling Heang to reduce any confusion. > > Regards, > Ling > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indexer's Discussion Group [mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU] > On Behalf Of Sylvia Coates > Sent: Tuesday, 22 June 1999 2:22 > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: names and chronological order > > Chinese names are indexed as they appear because the family name is the > first > name (i.e. Chou Wen Chung--Chou is the family name). When Chinese names are > obviously Westernized (which these name are not) then you would index them > accordingly (i.e. Charlie Chan would be indexed under Chan). Regarding the > Japanese name; you need to ask the editor if the Japanese names in the text > are written in Japanese order (family name first) or in Western order > (family > name last). It can be done either way, accordingly to the author's or > editor's > choice, and will be consistent throughout the text. After learning which > order > was used for the text you can index the entries beginning with the family > and > following with the given name. Japanese names are not inverted while > indexing > as Western names. Dalai Lama should probably be indexed as it appears in the > text, under the title. You can check with Chicago for more details. > > And as far as the sub entry order is concerned, I would just ask the editor > if > they have any preference. If you have strong feelings about the sub entry > order I would definitely at least pass it by the editor. My experience is > that > most editors are pretty flexible but they don't like being surprised! > > Good luck, > Sylvia Coates > > Jack Lewis wrote: > > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > > > ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BEBC06.1FA9CD00 > > Content-Type: text/plain; > > charset="iso-8859-1" > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > Dear Friends, > > =20 > > I am indexing a biography on Carl Sagan and have come across references = > > to half a dozen names that I do not know how to index. The names are: = > > Chou Wen Chung, Su Shu Huang, Kuan P'ing-Hu, Kazuaki Iwasaki, Surshri = > > Kesar Bai Kerkar, and the 14th Dalai Lama. If anyone can help on the = > > proper form for these names I would appreciate it. The first three names = > > are Chinese, the fourth is Japanese, the fifth Indian, and the Dalai = > > Lama of course is Tibetan. By the way the Dalai Lama is referred to in = > > the book only as the Dalai Lama. Would he be indexed by that or by his = > > full name and title, by both? A referral to a reference where I could = > > look up these names would also be useful.=20 > > =20 > > A second question I have regards the order of the index. In looking at = > > Nancy Mulvany's book I see that biographies are often ordered = > > chronologically rather than alphabetically. Is it possible or proper to = > > mix two types of ordering. For example I would like to order most of the = > > index alphabetically, but there is one group of entries that list the = > > main events of Sagan's life. This group of entries I would like to list = > > chronologically. Any feedback on this? Thanks. > > =20 > > Jack Lewis > > =20 > > > > ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BEBC06.1FA9CD00 > > Content-Type: text/html; > > charset="iso-8859-1" > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > > > > > > > > > > http-equiv=3DContent-Type> > HTML//EN"> > > > > > > > >
Dear Friends,
> >
 
> >
I am indexing a biography on Carl = > > Sagan and have=20 > > come across references to half a dozen names that I do not know how to = > > index.=20 > > The names are: Chou Wen Chung, Su = > > Shu Huang,=20 > > Kuan P'ing-Hu, Kazuaki Iwasaki, Surshri Kesar Bai Kerkar, and the 14th = > > Dalai=20 > > Lama. If anyone can help on the proper form for these names I would = > > appreciate=20 > > it. The first three names are Chinese, the fourth is Japanese, the fifth = > > Indian,=20 > > and the Dalai Lama of course is Tibetan. By the way the Dalai Lama is = > > referred=20 > > to in the book only as the Dalai Lama. Would he be indexed by that or by = > > his=20 > > full name and title, by both? A referral to a reference where I could = > > look up=20 > > these names would also be useful.
> >
 
> >
 A second question I have = > > regards the order=20 > > of the index. In looking at Nancy Mulvany's book I see that biographies = > > are=20 > > often ordered chronologically rather than alphabetically.  Is it = > > possible=20 > > or proper to mix two types of ordering. For example I would like to = > > order most=20 > > of the index alphabetically, but there is one group of entries that list = > > the=20 > > main events of Sagan's life. This group of entries I would like to list=20 > > chronologically. Any feedback on this?  Thanks.
> >
 
> >
Jack Lewis
> >
 
> > > > ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BEBC06.1FA9CD00--