Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9905B" ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 05:37:23 +0200 Reply-To: Louise Ferguson Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Louise Ferguson Subject: indexing job This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B0_01BE9914.D913C620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am looking for a freelance indexer (or indexers) able to work on a = multi-volume ecology publication over the next 12 months.=20 Requirements: Must have indexing software and e-mail, experience in = multi-volume works, experience in biology/academic (ie not popular) = ecology indexing, and time available over the next 12 months. Preferably = a graduate in ecology, biology or similar and a member of one of the = indexing associations or societies (British Society of Indexers, ASI, = etc.). Preferably UK or US-based, though if you're somewhere else, not = likely to be a major problem. (If you are also fluent in Spanish and/or = Catalan, or just happen to live in Spain, that would be a huge plus as = far as the publisher is concerned, but don't worry if you aren't or you = don't - I think they're asking for the moon on this one.) If you fulfil all these criteria, e-mail as soon as possible me at = lferguson@mx3.redestb.es with information about your qualifications, = experience, software. Thanks Louise Ferguson =20 ------=_NextPart_000_00B0_01BE9914.D913C620 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am looking for a freelance indexer = (or=20 indexers) able to work on a multi-volume ecology publication over the = next 12=20 months.

Requirements: Must have indexing = software and=20 e-mail, experience in multi-volume works, experience in biology/academic = (ie not=20 popular) ecology indexing, and time available over the next 12 months.=20 Preferably a graduate in ecology, biology or similar and a member of one = of the=20 indexing associations or societies (British Society of Indexers, ASI, = etc.).=20 Preferably UK or US-based, though if you're somewhere else, not likely = to be a=20 major problem. (If you are also fluent in Spanish and/or Catalan, or = just happen=20 to live in Spain, that would be a huge plus as far as the publisher is=20 concerned, but don't worry if you aren't or you don't - I think they're = asking=20 for the moon on this one.)

If you fulfil all these = criteria,=20 e-mail as soon as possible me at lferguson@mx3.redestb.es = with=20 information about your qualifications, experience, = software.

Thanks

Louise Ferguson

------=_NextPart_000_00B0_01BE9914.D913C620-- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 05:51:21 +0200 Reply-To: Louise Ferguson Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Louise Ferguson Subject: Indexers in Spain This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00BC_01BE9916.CC6EDB60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello to Index-L. I'm new to the list today, and very glad to have found = you all. I'm a writer (journalism), translator (qualified), and would-be = indexer (still training) living in Barcelona. I'd like to find out if there are any English-language indexers living = in Spain, Italy or the south of France, whether qualified or not, = members of one of the societies or not. Just anybody who compiles = indexes. English-language indexers seem to be a bit thin on the ground in = mainland Europe, but there's increasing amounts of English publishing = going on down here. And most Spanish non-fiction books call the table of = contents an index, but have no index at all. So the indexer has an = uphill job convincing publishers that English-style indexes (ie indexing = of concepts) are necessary in English-language publications. Any info gratefully received. Thanks Louise Ferguson ------=_NextPart_000_00BC_01BE9916.CC6EDB60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello to Index-L. I'm new to the = list today, and=20 very glad to have found you all. I'm a writer=20 (journalism), translator (qualified), and would-be indexer (still = training)=20 living in Barcelona.

I'd like to find out if there are = any=20 English-language indexers living in Spain, Italy or the south of France, = whether=20 qualified or not, members of one of the societies or not. Just anybody = who=20 compiles indexes.

English-language indexers seem to be = a bit thin=20 on the ground in mainland Europe, but there's increasing amounts of = English=20 publishing going on down here. And most Spanish non-fiction books call = the table=20 of contents an index, but have no index at all. So the indexer has an = uphill job=20 convincing publishers that English-style indexes (ie indexing of = concepts) are=20 necessary in English-language publications.

Any info gratefully = received.

Thanks

Louise = Ferguson

------=_NextPart_000_00BC_01BE9916.CC6EDB60-- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 17:33:02 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: marvant duhon Subject: Re: archives; biblical texts In-Reply-To: <199905061712.MAA27863@shooter.bluemarble.net> Congratulations to Scotland for regaining a Parliament after going almost 300 years without one. Actually, this is not the first Parliament Scotland has elected in nearly 300 years, but the first one it has elected ever, since the previous one was not elected. And to be sure I know of the connection that King James had to Scotland. Since the translation was an English project, not a United Kingdom project, I simply identified the associated English king under whose sponsorship it was completed (his other titles did not matter). Similarly, when I wrote in a different venue about India, I referred briefly to several Emperors and an Empress of India without ever feeling it stylistically appropriate to mention that they were also monarchs of Scotland, or of England, or of Alderney, or of any other part of the United Kingdom. Yes, this King James was one of several English monarchs to be born outside of England but within the United Kingdom. Those who work in areas related to British history, or have an amateur interest in such matters as I do, know that many more English monarchs (including some of the most historically significant, and others less so) were born and held title outside the UK before their English coronation, and retained these outside titles. I here refer to them as English monarchs because some of them predate the United Kingdom, but of course many actually ruled the UK. Since England's first being united early in this millenium, there have been examples of this (in several cases, more than one example) representing Denmark, Normandy, Anjou, Bologne, Aquitaine, Orange, Nassau, Brunswick, and Luneberg, and probably elsewhere of which I am unaware (since I don't know the birthplaces of most English monarchs). Several, even in England, did not speak English. Even in this century, the first two monarchs of the House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (I think both were born in the UK, but haven't checked) were criticized for their heavy German accents. The first felt no need to make his English intelligible because he used it so little, but the second (because of some unpleasantnesses with the country ruled by his cousin Wilhelm) worked hard at changing the way he talked, I understand with success. In any event, I would think it usually not inappropriate to in an English matter not refer to King George I as ruler of Brunswick, nor to Richard the Lionhearted as ruler of Aquitaine, and thus my reference to James as King of England. As promised I have avoided matters relating to the King James Bible, and apologize if I have displeased any of you by spinning too many electrons in this. Best, Marvant Duhon On Thu, 6 May 1999, Linda Sutherland wrote: > The message <199904281230.NAA01212@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> > from marvant duhon contains these words: > > > The most commonly used Protestant version of the Bible is > > generally called the King James version, after the English monarch at the > > time the project was completed. > > > English ? !!! On the day Scotland elects its first Parliament in > nearly 300 years, I cannot let this pass !! :-) > > He was Scottish by birth, and ruled Scotland first before adding > England to his string. > > > > The message <199904282245.XAA13390@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> > from Toni Williams TPG/SG contains > these words: > > > Kings James IV & I of Scotland and England > > Only one King - James Sixth of Scotland and First of England was one > and the same person. > > -- > Linda Sutherland > linda.sutherland@zetnet.co.uk > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 18:45:20 +1000 Reply-To: diagonal@hermes.net.au Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Subject: Re: Work at home & kids In-Reply-To: Nancy, This was an interesting article. Thanks for the post. Glenda. > > After completing my latest overnight indexing marathon & uploading the > project to the publisher, I was trying to clear out odds & ends. I came > across an article -- "10 Ways to have Happy Kids while you work at home" > For as much as this topic cycles through our discussions, I thought others > might want to read it. > > http://www.homeworkingmom.com/kids.htm > > Having freelanced since 1983 with 3 children, ages now 17, 15, > and 8, I can > affirm that the ideas presented can work. > > Nancy Guenther > nanguent@chesco.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 11:49:01 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Sutherland Subject: Re: archives; biblical texts The message <199905082233.XAA03299@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> from marvant duhon contains these words: > As promised I have avoided matters relating to the King James > Bible, and apologize if I have displeased any of you by spinning too many > electrons in this. No displeasure at all, Marvant. Remember there was a smiley in my original message! -- Linda Sutherland linda.sutherland@zetnet.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 12:41:50 +0200 Reply-To: Louise Ferguson Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Louise Ferguson Subject: chickens and eggs Spotted in the review section of one of Spain's national papers yesterday: "I now have my next book [in mind], which already has a title, 'Constitutional Government in History', and an index." But sadly as yet no content, i.e. the chicken. >From an interview with Miguel Artola, one of Spain's top historians. Louise Ferguson ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 18:15:15 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Manjit Sahai Subject: CD-ROM Indexing....Subject Matter & Rate Hi everyone, I have few questions to ask to CD-ROM Indexers. 1...Are all of the books on CD-ROM about computer science subject only...or are there books on CD-ROMs on other subjects also? 2...Do you charge hourly rate for CD-ROM indexes? 3...Do you index the *same* book in print as well as on CD-ROM? If you produce 2 indexes for the same (BOB index & CD-ROM index) book, do you give any *break* in rate to the publisher? Thanks for all the help in advance. Manjit K. Sahai RAM Indexing Services Sterling, VA _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 22:58:02 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barbara A. Wallace" Subject: Retirement Planning for the Self-Employed The Arizona Chapter of the American Society of Indexers presents "Retirement Planning for the Self-Employed," by Carolyn Sechler, CPA, PC. Ms. Selchler is a practitioner with expertise in tax and strategic planning, financial reporting, and management consulting. Her fully wired practice is a "virtual accounting firm," demonstrating the power of technology and its endless opportunities. Accounting Today twice selected her as one of the "Top 100 Most Influential People in the Profession." The meeting begins at 10 a.m. on Saturday, June 19, 1999, at ASU's Memorial Union, Tempe. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 06:23:45 -0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: Re: chickens and eggs Louise Ferguson wrote: From an interview with Miguel Artola, one of Spain's top historians. Oh dear! But I suspect that Senor Artola meant to refer to a table of contents, rather than an index. That would make slightly more sense. Christine ************************************************************ Christine Shuttleworth, Indexing & Editorial Services Flat 1, 25 St Stephen's Avenue London W12 8JB cshuttle@dircon.co.uk ************************************************************ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 21:51:03 +0200 Reply-To: Louise Ferguson Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Louise Ferguson Subject: chickens and eggs Yes, Artola obviously meant a table of contents, but I almost laughed out loud. 'index' is table of contents or library catalogue, 'thematic index' is table of contents (I'm looking at one right now), and 'index of subjects' [indice de materias] is also table of contents (odd that there is no standardisation in a language with a Royal Academy responsible for keeping it in good order). And we are left with the terms 'terminological index' or 'analytical index' to mean any index that is arranged in alphabetical order (rather than contents order), of which there are all too few. Does anyone know where the habit comes of putting the table of contents at the back of the book rather than the front in certain countries, particularly in the southern Med? This table, which may go on for pages, is seen as being instead of an index (i.e. renders an index unnecessary), so often no real index is included. And the idea of leaping straight into a non-fiction text without any kind of 'content map' strikes me as a little odd. Why so much resistance to the idea of a 'terminological index' ? I assume this comes from the essay-writing tradition, with fact books a relative novelty. Louise Christine wrote Oh dear! But I suspect that Senor Artola meant to refer to a table of contents, rather than an index. That would make slightly more sense. Christine Louise Ferguson wrote: From an interview with Miguel Artola, one of Spain's top historians. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 19:02:25 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ralph REID Subject: Re: chickens and eggs Hi Louise et al In the technical manuals which I have written (over 600 of them) very few had a subject index - bear in mind that only lately have computerised tools making the construction of such indexes a cost-effective exercise. All of them, however, had a contents list up front (many years ago I stopped heading it 'Table of Contents' and now head it just 'Contents', as I found 'Table of' to be anachronistic) as it is essential as a finding/orientation aid, and if referring to it anywhere call it the 'contents list'. Also, I have always taken the definition of an index to be 'arranged in some logically-related order' rather than 'arranged in alphabetical order' - some parts catalogues have indexes, with nary a letter to be seen. Regards Ralph Reid -----Original Message----- From: Louise Ferguson To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Monday, 10 May 1999 5:53 PM Subject: chickens and eggs >Yes, Artola obviously meant a table of contents, but I almost >laughed out loud. > >'index' is table of contents or library catalogue, >'thematic index' is table of contents (I'm looking at one right now), >and 'index of subjects' [indice de materias] is also >table of contents (odd that there is no standardisation >in a language with a Royal Academy responsible for keeping >it in good order). And we are left with the terms >'terminological index' or 'analytical index' to mean >any index that is arranged in alphabetical order (rather than >contents order), of which there are all too few. > >Does anyone know where the habit comes of putting >the table of contents at the back of the book rather than >the front in certain countries, particularly in the southern Med? >This table, which may go on for pages, is seen as being instead of an >index (i.e. renders an index unnecessary), so often no real index >is included. And the idea of leaping straight into a non-fiction text >without any kind of 'content map' strikes me as a little odd. >Why so much resistance to the idea of a 'terminological index' ? >I assume this comes from the essay-writing tradition, with fact books >a relative novelty. > >Louise > >Christine wrote > >Oh dear! But I suspect that Senor Artola meant to refer to a table of >contents, rather than an index. That would make slightly more sense. > >Christine > >Louise Ferguson wrote: >papers yesterday: ><"I now have my next book [in mind], which already has a title, >'Constitutional Government in History', and an index." >>From an interview with Miguel Artola, one of Spain's >top historians. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 12:55:04 +0100 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Re: chickens and eggs In-Reply-To: > Hi Louise et al > > In the technical manuals which I have written (over 600 of them) very few > had a subject index - bear in mind that only lately have computerised > tools making the construction of such indexes a cost-effective exercise. This is where we get the fire extinguishers out. No smoking. :-) The user pays, without consent, for absent or bad indexes, or computer-generated word lists labelled as indexes. I doubt if the person-hours of frustration trying to find info in manuals is calculated fairly for cost-effectiveness exercises. Regards _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 08:03:58 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marea Subject: Dragon's Naturally Speaking I know this was a thread a while back, but I need some help training this thing. Can anyone give me some advice? How well did you get it to recognize your voice? Has anyone tried the mobile unit? That seems to work less efficiently. Any input is appreciated!! Marea ======================== Marea Tumber mtumber@wildernesswok.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 07:56:57 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diane Lewis Subject: Not read: Subject area Inquiry eJ8+IjkLAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAFwAAAFJFUE9SVC5J UE0uTm90ZS5JUE5OUk4AtwYBDYAEAAIAAAACAAIAAQqAAQAhAAAARkMzMUU4RjNBNUZERDIxMTk4 RTgwMDYwMDg5RDIxMTIAGgcBA5AGAMwEAAAiAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAAAgEx AAEAAAAWAQAAUENERkVCMDkAAQACAHAAAAAAAAAAOKG7EAXlEBqhuwgAKypWwgAARU1TTURCLkRM TAAAAAAAAAAAG1X6IKpmEc2byACqAC/EWgwAAABPU0NBUgAvbz1BT0QgTmV0d29yay9vdT1NU0ov Y249UmVjaXBpZW50cy9jbj1NYXJqIE0ALgAAAAAAAACelczfjuDREZinAGAInSESAQC/MFAxib/R EZh8AGAInSESAAAAARLaAAAAAAAALgAAAAAAAACelczfjuDREZinAGAInSESAQC/MFAxib/REZh8 AGAInSESAAAAARLbAAAQAAAA/DHo86X90hGY6ABgCJ0hEhUAAABTdWJqZWN0IGFyZWEgSW5xdWly eQAAAEAAMgCgBy0O25q+AQMANgAAAAAAAgFDAAEAAABBAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIA AAEATWFyaiBNaXRjaGVsbABTTVRQAG1taXRjaGVsbEBNU0pDT1JQLkNPTQAAAAAeAEQAAQAAAA4A AABNYXJqIE1pdGNoZWxsAAAAHgBJAAEAAAAVAAAAU3ViamVjdCBhcmVhIElucXVpcnkAAAAAAgFM AAEAAABaAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAEASW5kZXhlcidzIERpc2N1c3Npb24gR3Jv dXAAU01UUABJTkRFWC1MQEJJTkdWTUIuQ0MuQklOR0hBTVRPTi5FRFUAAAAeAE0AAQAAABsAAABJ bmRleGVyJ3MgRGlzY3Vzc2lvbiBHcm91cAAAQABOAED/jk/Mkb4BQABVAIAaQEuNlr4BHgBwAAEA AAAVAAAAU3ViamVjdCBhcmVhIElucXVpcnkAAAAAAgFxAAEAAAAbAAAAAb6Ry5otp28Btf1wEdKK sAAQSyL9iQJD3QCUAB4AcgABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAHMAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgB0AAEAAAAkAAAA TXVsdGlwbGUgcmVjaXBpZW50cyBvZiBsaXN0IElOREVYLUwACwAIDAAAAAACAR0MAQAAACAAAABT TVRQOkxFV0lTQFZJUlRVQUxQUk9UT1RZUEVTLkNBAAsAAQ4BAAAACwAfDgEAAAAeAAEQAQAAABkA AABNZXNzYWdlIHdhcyBub3QgcmVhZCBieToAAAAAAwAGEAAAAAADAAcQAAAAAB4ACBABAAAABAAA AMQVzQADABAQlPvjAQMAERDkBAAAAgH4DwEAAAAQAAAA6sC2XoMV0hG61gBglyVcwQIB+g8BAAAA EAAAAOrAtl6DFdIRutYAYJclXMECAfsPAQAAAHEAAAAAAAAAOKG7EAXlEBqhuwgAKypWwgAAUFNU UFJYLkRMTAAAAAAAAAAATklUQfm/uAEAqgA32W4AAABDOlxXSU45NVxBcHBsaWNhdGlvbiBEYXRh XE1pY3Jvc29mdFxPdXRsb29rXG91dGxvb2sucHN0AAAAAAMA/g8FAAAAAwANNP03AAACAX8AAQAA ADEAAAAwMDAwMDAwMEVBQzBCNjVFODMxNUQyMTFCQUQ2MDA2MDk3MjU1Q0MxQzQzNDI5MDAAAAAA KCI= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 08:57:27 -0400 Reply-To: Kevin Broccoli Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kevin Broccoli Subject: Re: chickens and eggs It is of interest that the table of contents is never labeled as such in Spanish books. Instead, they call it the "indice". So, yes, they use the word index to refer to what we generally call the table of contents. Of course, the table of contents is a type of index, but it certainly makes things clearer when we don't call it that. Also, very few books produced in Spanish-speaking countries contain true indexes. Kevin Broccoli -----Original Message----- From: Christine Shuttleworth To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Monday, May 10, 1999 2:31 AM Subject: Re: chickens and eggs >Louise Ferguson wrote: > >papers yesterday: > ><"I now have my next book [in mind], which already has a title, >'Constitutional Government in History', and an index." > >From an interview with Miguel Artola, one of Spain's >top historians. > >Oh dear! But I suspect that Senor Artola meant to refer to a table of >contents, rather than an index. That would make slightly more sense. > >Christine > >************************************************************ >Christine Shuttleworth, Indexing & Editorial Services >Flat 1, 25 St Stephen's Avenue >London W12 8JB >cshuttle@dircon.co.uk >************************************************************ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 09:44:08 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: CD-ROM Indexing....Subject Matter & Rate > Hi everyone, > > I have few questions to ask to CD-ROM Indexers. > > 1...Are all of the books on CD-ROM about computer science subject > only...or > are there books on CD-ROMs on other subjects also? > > 2...Do you charge hourly rate for CD-ROM indexes? > > 3...Do you index the *same* book in print as well as on CD-ROM? If you > produce 2 indexes for the same (BOB index & CD-ROM index) book, do you > give > any *break* in rate to the publisher? > > Thanks for all the help in advance. > > Manjit K. Sahai > RAM Indexing Services > Sterling, VA > Manjit, We at Lexis Law Publishing produce CD-ROM products for most of our codes. The advantage of the CD-ROM product is that we can include a comprehensive state-specific library on one or two discs all with hypertext links connecting them. For example, our Virginia Law on Disc includes (among other things) the complete annotated Virginia Code, case law from both the Virginia and the federal courts, Michie's Jurisprudence (sort of a legal encyclopedia), Virginia forms and Virginia jury instructions, criminal and civil. All of these are linked so that if, for instance, you are reading an article in Michie's Jurisprudence that cites a statute, you can click on a link and immediately jump to the text of that statute. If the statute has 20 different cases below it, you can click on links there to jump to the text of the case and see if it applies in your situation. Because legal research involves so many different sources, CD-ROM's are growing in popularity because they can pull them all together for you in one place. I'm sure that other areas that involve this kind of multiple-resource searching are also discovering the joy of CD's. In fact, in the legal publishing industry most of the new companies out there don't even try to publish print codes any longer-- some publish CD versions of codes exclusively. We are an in-house indexing staff, so we may handle things differently, but we generally only index the material once and store the index in a media-neutral format that can be either composed and printed out in book form or edited and placed on a CD-ROM. From a freelancer standpoint, I don't think there would be any need to charge extra unless the publisher required you to actually produce two different indexes. If you are expected to insert the HTML/SGML coding for the links, for instance and strip it out for the print product then yes, you should charge for the time it takes you to do that extra work, but I suspect that the publisher will only want you to produce one index in a format that can be used in any medium. As for charging, I would charge the same as you charge for print indexes. The intellectual work is the same, only the medium or format is different, so there shouldn't be any difference in the rate charged. Hope this helps, and I'll be interested to see if anyone has a different experience with this kind of publishing. -- Sharon W. Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 03:57:12 +0200 Reply-To: Louise Ferguson Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Louise Ferguson Subject: Re: chickens and eggs Hi Ralph Yes, logically-related order is fine, but how logical is only being able to access information through a page number listing? Secondly, technical contents lists may well provide excellent 'maps' of content arrangement, but other types of publications may have far more obscure chapter and section headings, which reveal nothing about the actual subject matter but are merely cliches, plays on words, or slogans? A couple of examples from books currently on my desk: "A script which never fails" (section of a book on politics talking about nationalism) or "The years we boiled until we were nearly cooked" (chapter of a journalist's autobiography) And this is the only 'way in' to these books - no subject index. Louise ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 10:20:12 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: chickens and eggs << Also, very few books produced in Spanish-speaking countries contain true indexes. >> There are a few indexers in the U.S. who do work in this area. Many of the books are books produced by U.S. publishers for the Spanish-language market. At least we can make some inroads there. For those with the language and a technical specialty, if you can find the publishers, there's probably work out there. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 09:46:41 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael L. Olason" Subject: Dragon Naturally Speaking Marea, I was able to train Dragon in about 30 minutes. I have found that if you load some indexes into Dragon, it helps the recognition. Use Vocabulary Builder to do this. The more you use Dragon, the better it gets. It also helps to build different vocabularies and speech files for different subjects. I've got vocabularies and speech files built for computer science, gardening, equestrian, cook books... I've also noticed that by the end of the day, my dictation seems to get kind of lazy, and I get more errors. So when this starts to happen, I make an effort to exaggerate my mouth movements, this really helps, but it looks a bit funny (grin). I have no experience using Dragon with a tape recorder, sorry. Susan Olason ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 07:46:11 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: CD-ROM Indexing....Subject Matter & Rate In-Reply-To: <199905092116.rjccrt.tu0.37kbi15@mx7.mindspring.com> You need to think of CD-ROM as simply being another media to store data on. Any kind of book, or information, can be on a CD-ROM and need an index. You could have a book and its index on a floppy disk as well - doesn't matter if it is small, it will fit and work. I have CD-ROMs in my collection ranging from art history to dinosaurs to software technical information. I also have ones that simply install software. It is a storage material, that's all. It's simply your paper stock. I charge hourly for anything that is not simple back-of-the-book indexing, usually because you need to have jumps, links, hypertext, or other techniques that involve understanding bits of coding for your locators to behave correctly. You can use the same index you produced for a book on a CD-ROM if you use a technology such as Adobe Acrobat or Common Ground to put your items on the CD-ROM. Or you can produce something completely differently - I once did one where the index for a book was converted from a traditional print back-of-the book with several locators for each entry to one for the CD-ROM that could only have one locator per entry - a one-to-one index. You may want to read my article about online indexing posted on my web site - there is such a variety of ways of doing things - there is no single thing that is "CD-ROM" indexing, simply because anything can be put on a CD-ROM, and you can devise hundreds of ways to build an index to it. Your index's interface with the reader becomes the most important thing - what are they going to see, and then how do you build the index to fit within what they see. Jan Wright At 06:15 PM 5/9/99 -0700, you wrote: >Hi everyone, > >I have few questions to ask to CD-ROM Indexers. > >1...Are all of the books on CD-ROM about computer science subject only...or >are there books on CD-ROMs on other subjects also? > >2...Do you charge hourly rate for CD-ROM indexes? > >3...Do you index the *same* book in print as well as on CD-ROM? If you >produce 2 indexes for the same (BOB index & CD-ROM index) book, do you give >any *break* in rate to the publisher? > >Thanks for all the help in advance. > >Manjit K. Sahai >RAM Indexing Services >Sterling, VA > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Wright Information Indexing Services http://www.wrightinformation.com Jancw@wrightinformation.com =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 08:13:51 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Fw: One year Indexing/Abstracting position available Forwarded on behalf of the original sender. If you're interested, please respond to kelly@cidr.washington.edu (the address indicated in the message) and NOT to this list. Thanks, Carolyn Weaver -----Original Message----- From: Lola Estelle-Martin To: cweaver@u.washington.edu Date: Friday, May 07, 1999 2:07 PM Subject: One year Indexing/Abstracting position available Dear Ms. Weaver, Would you please post this to INDEX-NW? Are there any other listservs whose subscribers may be interested in indexing and abstracting jobs? Thanks! Lola Estelle-Martin TEMPORARY INDEXING/ABSTRACTING POSITION AVAILABLE The Center for Instructional Development and Research at the University of Washington is seeking a temporary indexer/abstractor from Summer Quarter 1999 through Spring Quarter 2000. This position is a part of a research team led by Dr. Jody Nyquist which is attempting to help answer the question, "How can we re-envision the Ph.D. to meet the needs of society in the 21st Century?" The position's duties include obtaining, classifying, abstracting, and indexing documents related to trends, programs, and practices in doctoral education. These documents include articles from journals and newspapers, web sites, reports, books, etc. The indexer will also help maintain a web site to facilitate interaction between the many shareholders in the enterprise. Eventually, a searchable database of abstracts and other data will be posted on this web site. The indexer/abstractor needs basic skills in indexing and abstracting as well as some web site construction experience. Experience working with searchable databases is highly desirable but not required. The position is 20 hours a week, and salary is negotiable. Please send a resume and cover letter to: Brenda Kelly, Manager, Administrative Services e-mail: kelly@cidr.washington.edu Center for Instructional Development and Research 396 Bagley Hall Box 351725 Seattle, WA 98195-1725 Or call Brenda Kelly at (206) 543-6588. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 12:32:55 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: What do you call this? I'm doing a book on Java and there is a section about changing text direction to correspond to local conventions for reading. For example, left-to-right, right-to-left, up-to-down, etc. What would you call that feature? I'm tending towards "localization of text" or "internationalization of text." Dick ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 12:34:46 -0400 Reply-To: Kevin Broccoli Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kevin Broccoli Subject: Re: What do you call this? Maybe I'm being a bit simplistic, but I would think one would look for it under: text, direction of or ... text direction Kevin Broccoli -----Original Message----- From: Richard Evans To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Monday, May 10, 1999 12:33 PM Subject: What do you call this? >I'm doing a book on Java and there is a section about changing text >direction to correspond to local conventions for reading. For example, >left-to-right, right-to-left, up-to-down, etc. > >What would you call that feature? I'm tending towards "localization of >text" or "internationalization of text." > >Dick ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 12:31:59 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Cheryl A. Cherry" Subject: Philly ASI meeting (long) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BE9AE1.195E92A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You are invited to attend the next meeting of the Philadelphia area = members of the American Society Of Indexers -- Non-Members And Students = Welcome! WHEN: Wednesday, June 2, 1999, 1 to 3 PM WHERE: Drexel University W.W. Hagerty Library, 33rd and Market Streets, = Philadelphia GUEST SPEAKERS: Abby Goodrum, PhD and Katherine W. McCain, PhD Abby Goodrum is an Assistant Professor in the College of Information = Science and Technology at Drexel University. She has degrees in Radio, = Television and Film, and in Library and Information Science. Her work = focuses on classification schemes and representation of both still and = moving images. In Spring Quarter 2000 she will teach a new course she = has designed on Visual Information Retrieval. Katherine McCain is a Professor in the College of Information Science = and Technology at Drexel. She has degrees in Zoology, Biology, and = Information Studies. Her work focuses on several aspects of = communication in the natural sciences, with a major emphasis on = bibliometric studies of scholarly fields and their literatures. In Fall = Quarter 1999 she will teach a course on Content Representation. On June 2nd Dr. McCain and Dr. Goodrum will discuss: - the ways in which instruction in indexing is incorporated into the = Information Science and Technology graduate (and undergraduate) = curricula - the specific content and orientation of their courses - the particular challenges of teaching indexing in today's information = technology-focussed environment.=20 This is an excellent opportunity for both experienced indexers and = novices to gain fresh perspective on the hot issues in indexing today. = Also, Dr. Goodrum and Dr. McCain are looking forward to getting input = from folks "in the trenches", particularly on indexing issues outside = the realm of back-of-the-book indexing. On the day of the meeting, enter the door at 33rd and Market Streets. Be = prepared to show photo ID for admission to the library. We'll meet in = Classroom L34 on the lower level. Metered parking is available on the = street, in a small visitors' lot across from the library on 33rd St., = and in a commercial lot on 34th between Market and Chestnut. (Bring at = least a dozen quarters!) No need to RSVP, but if you have questions phone Cheryl Cherry at = 215-723-8316 (cacherry@concentric.net)or Ann Cassar at 610-459-2380 (ctss@erols.com). (If you get lost the day of = the meeting, phone the library reference desk at 215-895-2755!) After the meeting we'll adjourn to a nearby caf=E9 or food court to = socialize. ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BE9AE1.195E92A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

You are invited to attend the next meeting of the Philadelphia area = members=20 of the American Society Of Indexers -- Non-Members And Students = Welcome!

WHEN: Wednesday, June 2, 1999, 1 to 3 PM

WHERE: Drexel University W.W. Hagerty Library, 33rd and Market = Streets,=20 Philadelphia

GUEST SPEAKERS: Abby Goodrum, PhD and Katherine W. McCain, PhD

Abby Goodrum is an Assistant Professor in the College of Information = Science=20 and Technology at Drexel University. She has degrees in Radio, = Television and=20 Film, and in Library and Information Science. Her work focuses on = classification=20 schemes and representation of both still and moving images. In Spring = Quarter=20 2000 she will teach a new course she has designed on Visual Information=20 Retrieval.

Katherine McCain is a Professor in the College of Information Science = and=20 Technology at Drexel. She has degrees in Zoology, Biology, and = Information=20 Studies. Her work focuses on several aspects of communication in the = natural=20 sciences, with a major emphasis on bibliometric studies of scholarly = fields and=20 their literatures. In Fall Quarter 1999 she will teach a course on = Content=20 Representation.

On June 2nd Dr. McCain and Dr. Goodrum will discuss:

- the ways in which instruction in indexing is incorporated into the=20 Information Science and Technology graduate (and undergraduate) = curricula

- the specific content and orientation of their courses

- the particular challenges of teaching indexing in today's = information=20 technology-focussed environment.

This is an excellent opportunity for both experienced indexers and = novices to=20 gain fresh perspective on the hot issues in indexing today. Also, Dr. = Goodrum=20 and Dr. McCain are looking forward to getting input from folks "in = the=20 trenches", particularly on indexing issues outside the realm of=20 back-of-the-book indexing.

On the day of the meeting, enter the door at 33rd and Market Streets. = Be=20 prepared to show photo ID for admission to the library. We'll meet in = Classroom=20 L34 on the lower level. Metered parking is available on the street, in a = small=20 visitors' lot across from the library on 33rd St., and in a commercial = lot on=20 34th between Market and Chestnut. (Bring at least a dozen quarters!)

No need to RSVP, but if you have questions phone Cheryl Cherry at=20 215-723-8316 (cacherry@concentric.net)or

Ann Cassar at 610-459-2380 (ctss@erols.com). (If you get lost the = day of=20 the meeting, phone the library reference desk at 215-895-2755!)

After the meeting we'll adjourn to a nearby café or food court = to=20 socialize.

------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BE9AE1.195E92A0-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 12:44:37 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: For you Java folks In-Reply-To: <199905101233.rje2hu.8b5.37kbi14@mx6.mindspring.com> Java classes are grouped into packages. For instance, the Frame class is part of the java.awt package. The full name of the class is java.awt.Frame. Are you more likey to look under the full name or just under the class name? Dick ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 13:40:52 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Dragon's Naturally Speaking I have been working with Dragon Naturally Speaking for the last two weeks. I found it relatively easy to train (the first half hour and then a little more time speaking on my own), but I did find that one of my constantly running programs interfered with Dragon. I did keep Clean Sweep on my computer, but for some reason Dragon had trouble while Clean Sweep was on. I dumped it, and things have been fine. I've just completed my first index with it and was thrilled. I'm currently doing my second and will start a third by the end of the week. If it weren't for Dragon, I wouldn't be able to work right now because of back and rib problems. Good Luck, Leslie Frank Words Indexing and Editing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 10:56:01 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Judith Metcalf Subject: Re: What do you call this? In-Reply-To: <1285768767-90888997@centralia.ctc.edu> "Anchoring" is the term used in some databases such as library catalogs. For example, a "left-anchored" list could be browsed by entering the first word or two of an entry such as a book's title, in Western style titles, of course. >I'm doing a book on Java and there is a section about changing text >direction to correspond to local conventions for reading. For example, >left-to-right, right-to-left, up-to-down, etc. > >What would you call that feature? I'm tending towards "localization of >text" or "internationalization of text." > >Dick ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 14:57:57 -0400 Reply-To: "Seth A. Maislin" Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Seth A. Maislin" Organization: Focus Information Services Subject: Re: For you Java folks This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0055_01BE9AF5.7D6FDA60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In general (in my opinion), Java class are looked up under the end parts: "Frame class." However, if there aren't a lot of classes listed in the book (i.e., if the book isn't about Java but about something else), then I try to list them under the longer names as well (java.awt.Frame), for Java novices. I might list them under the long names as well if the author *never* refers to classes by their shorter versions. (Consider the analogy of the short names being like acronyms, and then making the decision whether to index under the spelled out version or the acronym. In this case, however, all the spelled out versions start with "java." or "javax.", which make the spelled out versions hard to browse through.) The basic problem with listing Java class names under the long names is that it's very hard to organize them. If you do, maintain the nomenclature hierarchy in your index. Put the class names under the packages, and keep the packages on their own lines. java.awt package java.awt.Frame class java.awt.Layer class java.awt.Image package java.awt.Peer package Actually, if you want to see the most complicated Java index I've ever written, see it online (in ASCII format) at http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/javanut2/inx.html. Being the most detailed example, I often use this very index as a reference for other Java-related indexing. You'll notice, however, that there are very few entries under the full class names, although the packages themselves are indexed. Seth Maislin Focus Information Services smaislin@world.std.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Evans To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Sent: Monday, May 10, 1999 12:44 PM Subject: For you Java folks Java classes are grouped into packages. For instance, the Frame class is part of the java.awt package. The full name of the class is java.awt.Frame. Are you more likely to look under the full name or just under the class name? 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Maislin" Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Seth A. Maislin" Organization: Focus Information Services Subject: Re: What do you call this? Localization and internationalization are great terms when referring to language differences (e.g., Hebrew is read right to left, and Japanese is frequently read top to bottom). In fact, I often think these two words mean the same thing, because the different is so subtle. (Localization deals with how text is perceived, using local settings on the reader's computer; internationalization deals with how text is prepared.) So these might be good main entries if you include this particular topic as a subentry. However, "direction of text" and "text, direction of" (as Kevin suggests) are just fine. - Seth ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Evans To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Sent: Monday, May 10, 1999 12:32 PM Subject: What do you call this? I'm doing a book on Java and there is a section about changing text direction to correspond to local conventions for reading. For example, left-to-right, right-to-left, up-to-down, etc. What would you call that feature? I'm tending towards "localization of text" or "internationalization of text." Dick ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 12:51:31 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeri Lee Subject: Re: Dragon's Naturally Speaking In-Reply-To: <199905101203.FAA05165@mx1.eskimo.com> --=====================_2326640==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Marea, Which version of D-NS did you get? Which soundcard do you have? Quality of soundcard and mike are the most important in getting good recognition. Have you gone through the training as the program led you into it? The mobile does work less efficiently, at least for the present time. Dragon is working on that and has announced a USB imput mike that should work a great deal better but shipping dates are uncertain (read 45-90 days). I am a VAR with Dragon and would be happy to help you. Jeri Lee At 08:03 AM 5/10/1999 -0400, you wrote: >I know this was a thread a while back, but I need some help training this >thing. Can anyone give me some advice? How well did you get it to >recognize your voice? Has anyone tried the mobile unit? That seems to >work less efficiently. Any input is appreciated!! > >Marea >======================== >Marea Tumber >mtumber@wildernesswok.com > --=====================_2326640==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Marea,

Which version of D-NS did you get?

Which soundcard do you have? Quality of soundcard and mike are the most important in getting good recognition.

Have you gone through the training as the program led you into it?

The mobile does work less efficiently, at least for the present time. Dragon is working on that and has announced a USB imput mike that should work a great deal better but shipping dates are uncertain (read 45-90 days).

I am a VAR with Dragon and would be happy to help you.

Jeri Lee

At 08:03 AM 5/10/1999 -0400, you wrote:
>I know this was a thread a while back, but I need some help training this
>thing. Can anyone give me some advice? How well did you get it to
>recognize your voice? Has anyone tried the mobile unit? That seems to
>work less efficiently. Any input is appreciated!!
>
>Marea
>========================
>Marea Tumber
>mtumber@wildernesswok.com
>
--=====================_2326640==_.ALT-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 07:33:10 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ralph REID Subject: Re: chickens and eggs Hi John Point taken. However, as someone once said, the art of technical writing is not to produce the best manual in the world, it is to produce the best you can in the time available. And in most commercial environments (as least the ones I have worked in) not only is input for the manual left until late in the development cycle, but also the manual is required to ship at the same time as the first product. Rarely does 'management' allow the time or cost to construct 'proper' indexes. That is why I have always been extra careful in setting up section headings so that they compile into a meaningful (i.e., useful) contents list - remember that the contents list is the poor person's index. Regards Ralph Reid -----Original Message----- From: J.R. Sampson To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Monday, 10 May 1999 9:56 PM Subject: Re: chickens and eggs >> Hi Louise et al >> >> In the technical manuals which I have written (over 600 of them) very few >> had a subject index - bear in mind that only lately have computerised >> tools making the construction of such indexes a cost-effective exercise. > >This is where we get the fire extinguishers out. No smoking. :-) > >The user pays, without consent, for absent or bad indexes, or >computer-generated word lists labelled as indexes. I doubt if the >person-hours of frustration trying to find info in manuals is >calculated fairly for cost-effectiveness exercises. > >Regards > >_John Sampson_ > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 14:03:33 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: What do you call this? In-Reply-To: <199905101634.JAA14634@nccn.net> >-----Original Message----- >From: Richard Evans >To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L >Date: Monday, May 10, 1999 12:33 PM >Subject: What do you call this? > > >>I'm doing a book on Java and there is a section about changing text >>direction to correspond to local conventions for reading. For example, >>left-to-right, right-to-left, up-to-down, etc. >> >>What would you call that feature? I'm tending towards "localization of >>text" or "internationalization of text." At 12:34 PM 5/10/99 -0400, Kevin Broccoli wrote: >Maybe I'm being a bit simplistic, but I would think one would look for it >under: > >text, direction of > >or ... > >text direction Dick: "Text direction" looks good to me. I think I'd include "direction of text" and "anchoring" (or "text anchoring"?) too (thanks to Judith Metcalf), space permitting. As you tacitly acknowledged in asking your question, "localization of text" and "internationalization of text" don't convey the specific meaning you're after. Michael Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 530-272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 17:51:47 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeanne Moody Subject: Re: mailbox question This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_015A_01BE9BD6.F0559600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A regular-size mailbox will be fine. If you receive anything that does not easily fit inside, the post office puts a card in the box to tell you to pick up the envelope, box, or whatever at the counter. In my experience, most publishers send page proofs via delivery services like Federal Express, Airborne, and United Parcel Service. These come to your door, whether you have a post office box or not. I live in a rural area and decided to rent a box at the post office after replacing three boxes on the rural delivery route. Mailbox softball is an all-too popular sport around here. Jeanne Moody ------=_NextPart_000_015A_01BE9BD6.F0559600 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; name="Jeanne C. Moody.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Jeanne C. Moody.vcf" BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Moody;Jeanne;C. FN:Jeanne C. Moody ORG:Beaver Wood Associates TEL;WORK;VOICE:603-835-7900 TEL;WORK;FAX:603-835-6279 ADR;WORK:;;P.O. Box 290;Alstead Center;NH;03602 LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:P.O. Box 290=0D=0AAlstead Center, NH 03602 EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:jcmoody@top.monad.net REV:19990511T215146Z END:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_015A_01BE9BD6.F0559600-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 18:07:44 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeanne Moody Subject: Re: printers? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0184_01BE9BD9.2B5A4FA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Most of my clients want a printed version of the index for proofreading as well as a disk. Even when I send indexes by e-mail, the disk and hardcopy have been wanted "just in case." I recently bought a home computer that came packaged with an inkjet printer. It is tediously slow compared to my workhorse laser printer. In the long run, I think you will eventually want a laser printer. There's no point in running out to buy one, however, until the time factor begins to hurt financially or you need to replace the inkjet anyway. Jeanne Moody ------=_NextPart_000_0184_01BE9BD9.2B5A4FA0 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; name="Jeanne C. Moody.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Jeanne C. Moody.vcf" BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Moody;Jeanne;C. FN:Jeanne C. Moody ORG:Beaver Wood Associates TEL;WORK;VOICE:603-835-7900 TEL;WORK;FAX:603-835-6279 ADR;WORK:;;P.O. Box 290;Alstead Center;NH;03602 LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:P.O. Box 290=0D=0AAlstead Center, NH 03602 EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:jcmoody@top.monad.net REV:19990511T220744Z END:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_0184_01BE9BD9.2B5A4FA0-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 18:01:28 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeanne Moody Subject: Re: periodical indexing This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0171_01BE9BD8.4B296D80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For technical journals, using the article's bibliographic citation as the subentry is quite common. For periodical indexes of that type, I use ProCite software. This is especially efficient when the publisher wants an author index as well as the subject index. Also, for very large projects (e.g., multiyear cumulative index), basic data can sometimes be downloaded from bibliographic databases on DIALOG. Alternatively, I occasionally pay somebody else to keyboard the titles, authors etc. and then added the index terms myself. Jeanne Moody ------=_NextPart_000_0171_01BE9BD8.4B296D80 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; name="Jeanne C. Moody.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Jeanne C. Moody.vcf" BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Moody;Jeanne;C. FN:Jeanne C. Moody ORG:Beaver Wood Associates TEL;WORK;VOICE:603-835-7900 TEL;WORK;FAX:603-835-6279 ADR;WORK:;;P.O. Box 290;Alstead Center;NH;03602 LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:P.O. Box 290=0D=0AAlstead Center, NH 03602 EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:jcmoody@top.monad.net REV:19990511T220128Z END:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_0171_01BE9BD8.4B296D80-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 18:16:43 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: Dragon's Naturally Speaking Will Dragon Naturally Speaking handle long medical or scientific terms? How about unusual person names? I assume diacritics have to be inserted later? Is spelling generally correct with common terms? Does a mike system, etc. come with it or is that separate? Is Dragon Standard as good as Dragon Preferred? Thanks, Cynthia ***************************************** Cynthia Purdy Bertelsen Bertelsen Indexing Services Cookbooks, Food History, and Food Writing a Specialty cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.usit.com/cbertel/ "When we no longer have good cooking in the world, we will have no literature, nor high and sharp intelligence, nor friendly gatherings, no social harmony." --Careme ****************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 15:25:34 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Field Subject: Re: What do you call this? Michael wrote: >>>As you tacitly acknowledged in asking your question, "localization of text" and "internationalization of text" don't convey the specific meaning you're after.<<< I disagree. I think audience analysis is the pivotal factor here. Most computer professionals, (the intended audience of the book on Java, no?) would look for a term such as "localization" in the index-it's a common term among such professionals' vocabularies. For example, if I'm a programmer working with Java and using this book to learn how to use Java to change text direction, I'm going to look under "localization" or "internationalization"-because that is the concept of my field that I'm applying. Maybe the safest route is to double-post or provide a "see" reference, as in "text direction. See localization of text." Dick, please share your final decision. Karen Field Technical Writer, Editor, and Indexer San Diego, CA ----- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 08:20:26 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ralph REID Subject: Re: chickens and eggs Hi Louise You are 100% right, of course. In technical manuals which I have compiled and which have not had a 'proper index' I have tried to ensure that the sections headings are constructed to be meaningful finding aids. I agree that in a non-technical type work (such as might be used as a reference) this is not possible. Oh, and don't authors just love those tichy cute little word-play headings? Regards Ralph Reid -----Original Message----- From: Louise Ferguson To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Monday, 10 May 1999 11:59 PM Subject: Re: chickens and eggs >Hi Ralph > >Yes, logically-related order is fine, but how logical is only >being able to access information through a page number listing? > >Secondly, technical contents lists may well provide >excellent 'maps' of content arrangement, but other >types of publications may have far more obscure chapter >and section headings, which reveal nothing about the actual >subject matter but are merely cliches, plays on words, or >slogans? > >A couple of examples from books currently on my desk: >"A script which never fails" (section of a book on politics >talking about nationalism) >or >"The years we boiled until we were nearly cooked" (chapter >of a journalist's autobiography) > >And this is the only 'way in' to these books - no subject index. > >Louise > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 08:25:46 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ralph REID Subject: Re: What do you call this? I would probably have said 'orientation of text', but agree with the other comments. Be thankful you are not working in areas where the text is bostrodophian (one of my favourite words). Regards Ralph Reid -----Original Message----- From: Michael Brackney To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Tuesday, 11 May 1999 8:03 AM Subject: Re: What do you call this? >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Richard Evans >>To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L >>Date: Monday, May 10, 1999 12:33 PM >>Subject: What do you call this? >> >> >>>I'm doing a book on Java and there is a section about changing text >>>direction to correspond to local conventions for reading. For example, >>>left-to-right, right-to-left, up-to-down, etc. >>> >>>What would you call that feature? I'm tending towards "localization of >>>text" or "internationalization of text." > > >At 12:34 PM 5/10/99 -0400, Kevin Broccoli wrote: >>Maybe I'm being a bit simplistic, but I would think one would look for it >>under: >> >>text, direction of >> >>or ... >> >>text direction > > >Dick: > >"Text direction" looks good to me. I think I'd include "direction of text" >and "anchoring" (or "text anchoring"?) too (thanks to Judith Metcalf), >space permitting. > >As you tacitly acknowledged in asking your question, "localization of text" >and "internationalization of text" don't convey the specific meaning you're >after. > >Michael > > >Brackney Indexing Service >134 Kathleen Way >Grass Valley, CA 95945 >530-272-7088 > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 18:45:56 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: What do you call this? In-Reply-To: <199905101827.rjena0.5ns.37kbi14@mx6.mindspring.com> At 03:25 PM 5/10/99 -0700, you wrote: > Dick, please share your final decision. I've encountered several othe references to "internationalization", so I will probably end up with something like this: internationalization standard classes for of text direction variables and as well as: text, changing reading direction of I may be over-analyzing, but I see a distinction between simply changing the direction of a line of text (as one might do for emphasis in a presentation) and changing the direction to accommodate different conventions of reading. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 18:49:21 -0700 Reply-To: hmcmurra@ix.netcom.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: HEATHER MCMURRAY Subject: Re: Dragon's Naturally Speaking Leslie, I was laid off with bilateral carpal tunnel and have had thoughts of trying to index with Dragon NS. But I find it *very* hard to start. Fear of it not working for me. It's good news that others are succeeding in indexing with it. What software are you using to index? Heather McMurray LLFEdServ@AOL.COM wrote: > I have been working with Dragon Naturally Speaking for the last two weeks. I > found it relatively easy to train (the first half hour and then a little more > time speaking on my own), but I did find that one of my constantly running > programs interfered with Dragon. I did keep Clean Sweep on my computer, but > for some reason Dragon had trouble while Clean Sweep was on. I dumped it, and > things have been fine. I've just completed my first index with it and was > thrilled. I'm currently doing my second and will start a third by the end of > the week. If it weren't for Dragon, I wouldn't be able to work right now > because of back and rib problems. > > Good Luck, > Leslie > Frank Words Indexing and Editing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 18:49:09 -0700 Reply-To: hmcmurra@ix.netcom.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: HEATHER MCMURRAY Subject: Re: Dragon Naturally Speaking Susan, You use Dragon NS for creating indexes, then? What index software do you use? Heather carpal tunnel both hands Michael L. Olason wrote: > Marea, > > I was able to train Dragon in about 30 minutes. I have found that if > you load some indexes into Dragon, it helps the recognition. Use > Vocabulary Builder to do this. The more you use Dragon, the better it > gets. > > It also helps to build different vocabularies and speech files for > different subjects. I've got vocabularies and speech files built for > computer science, gardening, equestrian, cook books... > > I've also noticed that by the end of the day, my dictation seems to get > kind of lazy, and I get more errors. So when this starts to happen, I > make an effort to exaggerate my mouth movements, this really helps, but > it looks a bit funny (grin). > > I have no experience using Dragon with a tape recorder, sorry. > > Susan Olason ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 22:54:59 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: c.anderson.seattle@ATT.NET Subject: Re: Dragon Naturally Speaking For those of you using Dragon Naturally Speaking successfully, are you using the new Premium Dragon Naturally Speaking for the Pentium III that is supposed to be rewritten for the new instruction set or an older version (3.0?). In thinking about upgrading my system, I've thought that it would be worth a Pentium III to get a faster, and much easier to train voice recognition system. However, if all your success stories relate to older versions, maybe I'll save the money. Charles Anderson > Susan, > You use Dragon NS for creating indexes, then? What index software do > you > use? > Heather > carpal tunnel both hands > > Michael L. Olason wrote: > > > Marea, > > > > I was able to train Dragon in about 30 minutes. I have found that if > > you load some indexes into Dragon, it helps the recognition. Use > > Vocabulary Builder to do this. The more you use Dragon, the better it > > gets. > > > > It also helps to build different vocabularies and speech files for > > different subjects. I've got vocabularies and speech files built for > > computer science, gardening, equestrian, cook books... > > > > I've also noticed that by the end of the day, my dictation seems to get > > kind of lazy, and I get more errors. So when this starts to happen, I > > make an effort to exaggerate my mouth movements, this really helps, but > > it looks a bit funny (grin). > > > > I have no experience using Dragon with a tape recorder, sorry. > > > > Susan Olason ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 13:07:47 +0200 Reply-To: Louise Ferguson Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Louise Ferguson Subject: translating an index I've recently been having discussions with a publisher about building an English index for a work being translated into English from Catalan. And we've been going round in circles. "You can't!" I state, "It's absurd to believe a translator knows how to put an index together." "But I don't want to waste my expensive investment in this masterpiece of a Catalan index," he retorts, "any anyway we translate indexes between Spanish and Catalan without any problems." (very similar languages). I come out with all kinds of arguments in favour of an indexer and against a translator (and I must admit I'm a qualified translator) attempting to do this job, and the publisher just won't take the plunge (or rather he did last Friday, but changed his mind again this morning). I've had a few private discussions about this with indexers and translators, but I'd like to throw the issue open to the indexing community. I need all the ammunition I can get. What is going to convince these guys that they must not try to translate the index? Does anyone know of any disasters in this field that could be used as exemplary tales? Louise ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 18:27:31 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: marvant duhon Subject: Re: Dragon Naturally Speaking In-Reply-To: <199905101451.JAA10913@shooter.bluemarble.net> I have helped or at least been present for two handicapped patients (with quite different relevant conditions) starting to use Dragon. Both found it very easy. Both had everything disrupted when weeks or a month later a relative decided to use it briefly. This was some time ago so perhaps my information is dated. Good luck! Marvant Duhon ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 21:39:59 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop Subject: Techie Tip Just in case you are in the market for a zip drive and you have a newer computer with Windows 98 and an HP printer, here's a tip for you: buy a zip drive that plugs into your USB (Universal Serial Bus) port, which is pre-installed on newer computers. Don't fight with the zip drives that plug into the parallel port. The HP printer's communication software "doesn't play well with others" (and won't share it's space or its toys!)= ; in fact, it actually clobbers the zip drive software and won't let the computer recognize that it's there. = BTW, I learned this lesson the hard way, when I had to drop everything el= se I thought I was going to do today because a client called to say they had= trouble reading some zipped files I'd sent on diskettes last week and ask= ed if I would send the files on a zip disk. Anyway, after all the frustrati= on I experienced today, I hope this tip will spare some of you from having t= he same frustrating experience. Happy indexing! .... Lori Lori Lathrop (LoriLathrop@compuserve.com) Web site - http://idt.net/~lathro19 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 21:45:24 -0400 Reply-To: leditor@frontiernet.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "larry e. edmonson" Subject: Re: Dragon's Naturally Speaking Here's my take on several of the speech recognition questions recently put forward. > Will Dragon Naturally Speaking handle long medical or scientific terms? Generally yes, if you purchase the medical suite (or add the terms yourself). > > How about unusual person names? I assume diacritics have to be inserted later? If the unusual name is not in the NS vocabulary it will not be spelled correctly. If there are certain unusual names, you use repeatedly, you can download a manuscript containing them into NS and then train the name > Is spelling generally correct with common terms? No word is ever misspelled unless you have taught NS a new word and misspelled it in doing so. This is not to say that NS will always correctly deduce whether you meant "their" or "there." > Does a mike system, etc. come with it or is that separate? Comes with it. > Is Dragon Standard as good as Dragon Preferred? Preferred has more features and (in Version 3.5) a 42,000 word active vocabulary vs. 35,000 words for Standard. Both have a 230,000 word total vocabulary. >For those of you using Dragon Naturally Speaking successfully, are you using the new >Premium Dragon Naturally Speaking for the Pentium III that is supposed to be rewritten >for the new instruction set or an older version (3.0?). I felt I could index efficiently using NS version 1.0 and its discrete speech predecessors. Compared to text writing, indexing is a breeze. I now use Preferred version 3.0. Notwithstanding this, were I buying a new PC I would install the most recent speech recognition available. Larry Edmonson ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 23:23:41 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Horowitz Subject: Re: periodical indexing -- Biblio Software In-Reply-To: <199905102215.SAA52908@mail.acm.org> I would suggest a bibliographic software package called Papyrus which is cheaper than ProCite and has built in import facilities from a wide variety of bibliographic software systems. If the periodical is covered by PubMed they have that import file and it works great, just download the citations from PubMed on the web and import them into Papyrus with just a couple of key strokes. The program is also very easy to program so you can create your own import files as well as out put formats. Another great thing about this program, is the company. Free technical help that is quick and efficient. They will even write a special import or output file for you. The program costs $99.00. Their URL is http://www.rsd.com Roberta Horowitz rhorowitz@acm.org >For technical journals, using the article's bibliographic citation as the >subentry is quite common. For periodical indexes of that type, I use ProCite >software. This is especially efficient when the publisher wants an author >index >as well as the subject index. Also, for very large projects (e.g., multiyear >cumulative index), basic data can sometimes be downloaded from bibliographic >databases on DIALOG. Alternatively, I occasionally pay somebody else to >keyboard the titles, authors etc. and then added the index terms myself. > >Jeanne Moody > > >------=_NextPart_000_0171_01BE9BD8.4B296D80 >Content-Type: text/x-vcard; > name="Jeanne C. Moody.vcf" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Content-Disposition: attachment; > filename="Jeanne C. Moody.vcf" > >BEGIN:VCARD >VERSION:2.1 >N:Moody;Jeanne;C. >FN:Jeanne C. Moody >ORG:Beaver Wood Associates >TEL;WORK;VOICE:603-835-7900 >TEL;WORK;FAX:603-835-6279 >ADR;WORK:;;P.O. Box 290;Alstead Center;NH;03602 >LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:P.O. Box 290=0D=0AAlstead Center, NH 03602 >EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:jcmoody@top.monad.net >REV:19990511T220128Z >END:VCARD > >------=_NextPart_000_0171_01BE9BD8.4B296D80-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 00:23:48 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: translating an index In-Reply-To: <199905110407.XAA10846@c.mx.execpc.com> >What is going to convince these guys that they must not >try to translate the index? Does anyone know of any disasters >in this field that could be used as exemplary tales? > Louise, the only example I can cite is when a client asked me to translate a German index (which was a terrible index anyway) into English, to accompany the translation of the text. I knew it was a bad idea. What I did was translate just a little bit of it, keeping track of the time, and told the editor how much that part cost (at $40 an hour). It was very clear that it was going to be a lot more expensive to translate the German index than to have me index the English text from scratch. He got the point and agreed. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My indexer@execpc.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer new Web address to come ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 06:26:27 -0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: Re: What do you call this? Ralph Reid wrote: Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ralph REID Subject: Re: What do you call this? Hi Christine >I think the word Ralph has in mind is boustrophedon> >Christine > You made me do what I should have done in the first place - look at the dictionary. I thought I knew the spelling without looking it up, but it's a word that I have not used for a long time - it doesn't come up in conversation very often. Which reminds me of the story of the guy who had an exceeding bad stammer, so he went to a speech therapist who asked him as a trial to say "Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers". So the guy goes "PPP - pah - pah -pah - peter (etc etc)" To which the therapist said "Go away and practice that until you can say it perfectly, then come back and see me". So the guy goes away, and time passes. One day about 6 months later the door bursts open and the guy steps in and declaims with perfect diction "Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers" and the therapist says "See, I knew you could do it if you tried" to which the guy replies "Y-y-y-es. B-b-b-b-but its b-b-b-b-bloody har-har-hard to wor-wor-wor-work it into a c-c-c-c-con-con-conversation". regards Ralph ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 22:04:17 +0200 Reply-To: Louise Ferguson Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Louise Ferguson Subject: Re: translating an index Hi Christy et al Christy wrote I suppose if you are fortunate to find a translator who at least understands indexing, and a good original index, it can be done. Indexing skills never entered the picture at all when choosing translators where I worked, so if your publisher is at least aware of the situation, I think that's a positive sign. Do any of the potential Catalan translators (or indexers?) your publisher has in mind have anything to say about the issue? Yes, the main translator, who is extremely competent in the subject of the books, has told the publisher he wouldn't touch the index with a barge pole. His own mother used to be an indexer, so he knows a bit about the issue. He believes - as I do - that no other competent and professional translator would touch it either, and as there are few translators qualified to do this particular job - the publishers tried a number of people (10+) over a long period who were highly unsatisfactory before being able to settle on a couple of good people - so whoever tries to translate this index, if it comes to that, will be a poorish translator desperate for work. There are quite a few of those here, who will accept any job at all, so things begin to look even worse. Martha wrote 1. Is the work paginated exactly the same in both languages? I would think not, which makes a translated index worse than useless - it makes it a howling frustration to the reader. "Here's an index -- haha, no it's not! April Fool!" The pagination will be very different in the English edition - around 15% less text due to the more wordy nature of Catalan. You've also got the problem of words with no one-on-one relationship (e.g. 'papallona' can mean moth or butterfly, there is no exact translation for either, so you'd have to read the text to find out which is being talked about). Plus differences in word order between the two languages means that in Catalan a reader wouldn't search in an index on a qualifier (e.g. American Indian languages rather than languages, American Indian), something that is common in English and which English indexers cater for. Therefore the structure of the index might be quite different if compiled by an English indexer. I've also had bad experiences myself in translating long lists of isolated words - there's so much room for massive errors in interpretation out of context. I have in fact stressed the issue of credibility and competence with the publisher, and have pointed out that he can expect the English index to be included in an English review of the work, something that would never happen here. And in fact they would not be saving that much money. I think the issue is more one of national pride: they think they have just invented indexes, and seem completely unaware of the indexing profession and the situation in the English-speaking world. They didn't even know that indexing programmes existed, or that there were professional societies in other countries. Louise ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 19:48:16 +1000 Reply-To: iis_technical@csi.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Subject: FW: Looking for test documents with complex indexes. I am forwarding this to ALIAindexers and INDEX-L on behalf of the author. Please reply to him direct on mailto:iis_technical@csi.com Glenda ============================== One of your members, John McGhie, suggested that I contact you. I am working on a new edition of an application called MultiLinker, which automates the process of searching for and hyperlinking cross-references within and between MS Word documents, and converts Word documents to Acrobat PDF format, complete with hyperlinks and other navigational features. One of the features I intend to include in the new edition is to automatically convert the page numbers in the INDEX field into hyperlinks, so that you can "click-and-go" from the page number to the referenced word or phrase. To make this feature as robust and crash-proof as possible, I would like to obtain some Word documents containing indexes created by real-world users. I am especially interested in more complex indexes (multi-level &/or run-in) created using the INDEX field. I would be interested in documents both before and after they have been professionally indexed, to have the widest possible range of conditions to work under. I would also be interested in any suggestions for making this feature as useful as possible to people making and using indexes. I would be extremely grateful if you could pass this request on to your members. If there is sensitive information in any documents, I would be happy to sign a non-disclosure agreement, stating that the documents would be used solely for the purpose of testing the software. Regards Jonathan West MultiLinker - Automated generation of hyperlinks in Word Conversion to PDF & HTML http://www.multilinker.com iis_technical@csi.com ========================================== ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 08:56:56 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Leonard Will Subject: Re: What do you call this? In-Reply-To: <926376113.2026200.0@listserv.cuny.edu> In article <926376113.2026200.0@listserv.cuny.edu>, on Mon, 10 May 1999 at 18:45:56, Richard Evans writes > >I've encountered several othe references to "internationalization", ... Since this thread is getting on to the meaning of words, can I regret the use of "international" to mean "non-USA", as in "international editions" of software packages and even "international English edition" applied to versions for use in the UK. Surely "international" should refer to matters concerning more than one nation or to the relationships between more than one nation. Sorry to be picky, and I know that we have a dynamic language where words mean what people want them to mean and all that ... Leonard Will -- Willpower Information (Partners: Dr Leonard D Will, Sheena E Will) Information Management Consultants Tel: +44 181 372 0092 27 Calshot Way, Enfield, Middlesex, EN2 7BQ, UK Fax: +44 181 372 0094 L.Will@Willpower.demon.co.uk Sheena.Will@Willpower.demon.co.uk --------------- --------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 07:15:34 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sally Klingener Subject: Re: periodical indexing In-Reply-To: <199905102216.SAA18966@eliot.oit.umass.edu> >Jeanne Moody said >For technical journals, using the article's bibliographic citation as the >subentry is quite common. For periodical indexes of that type, I use ProCite >software. This is especially efficient when the publisher wants an author index >as well as the subject index. Also, for very large projects (e.g., multiyear >cumulative index), basic data can sometimes be downloaded from bibliographic >databases on DIALOG. Alternatively, I occasionally pay somebody else to >keyboard the titles, authors etc. and then added the index terms myself. > Jeanne, Since I'm working on a large periodical index with the author/title/subject information combined in one, I wonder if you can use the ProCite software in that case. If so, what is your method? In this case taxonomic names are in a separate index so there is no possibility of splitting the author/title/subject index. The editor and I have been struggling with the format for this section because of multi-coauthored papers. The recent discussion on the Macrex list was very helpful on this topic. Sally Klingener --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Alice G. Klingener email: skling@oitunix.oit.umass.edu Biology Department sally@bio.umass.edu 221 Morrill Science Center tele: (413) 577-4560 University of Massachusetts fax: (413) 545-3243 Amherst, MA 01003 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 13:06:03 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Owens Subject: Fw: indexable material > Dear All, > > Could I please have your advice. > > Where an author refers to another work, it is usual to index the name of > that author. However, in academic books the author might refer to > several other texts simply to back up what he/she has said (the authors are > not quoted nor are there views directly discussed). Such references are > frequent in some acedemic books/journals. > > By way of an example: > "A confluence of factors related to fear conditioning is used by > neuroscientists to explain common clinical observations regarding the > emergence of anxiety (Davies, 1992; Le Doux, 1996; Jacobs & Nadel, > 1985)...." Is it always necessary to index all such names? Or, where > there is a limit to the size of index the publisher wants, is it > permissible to decide to index only 1) such authorities that the author > actually quotes, and 2) those whose views/work he directly discusses (eg > "Based on his observations Davies(1992) proposed ...." ) In a nutshell, > where the authorities referred to appear in brackets, can they normally be > omitted where space is at a premium? > > Best wishes > > Richard Owens ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 08:23:53 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Hughes Subject: Re: Fw: indexable material In a message dated 99-05-11 08:12:04 EDT, you write: << In a nutshell, > where the authorities referred to appear in brackets, can they normally be omitted where space is at a premium? >> That's the way decisions are often handled. But, I found that this is subject dependent. Some fields, like sociology, may want all authors, even those in parens, in the subject index. Other fields, like biology, may put the cited authors in the citations index. I'd discuss this with the project manager. Sharon ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 08:20:49 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: francine cronshaw Subject: Re: translating an index Louise, I regularly index books translated into Spanish (or index companion volumes indexed independently), all of a non-technical nature, and haven't been asked to "translate an index" for several years. So I've forgotten how to field that particular question! Most publishers, at least in the U.S., seem to be aware of the 15% expansion factor mentioned on the list (dramatically affecting the pagination) as well as the subtle differences/nuances between original and target languages in the translation process. Such differences certainly affect the wording in the index. It's hard to imagine "translating" an index without having read the text first. In indexing, we have so few words to present... they better be the precise ones needed to guide the reader. Francine Cronshaw East Mountain Editing Services On Mon, 10 May 1999, Louise Ferguson wrote: > Hi Christy et al > > Christy wrote > > I suppose if you are fortunate to find a translator who at least > understands indexing, and a good original index, it can be done. > Indexing skills never entered the picture at all when choosing > translators where I worked, so if your publisher is at least aware of > the situation, I think that's a positive sign. > Do any of the potential Catalan translators (or indexers?) your > publisher has in mind have anything to say about the issue? > > Yes, the main translator, who is extremely competent in the > subject of the books, has told the publisher he wouldn't > touch the index with a barge pole. His own mother used > to be an indexer, so he knows a bit about the issue. > > He believes - as I do - that no other competent > and professional translator would touch > it either, and as there are few translators > qualified to do this particular job - the publishers tried > a number of people (10+) over a long period who were highly > unsatisfactory before being able to settle on a couple of > good people - so whoever tries to translate this index, if it > comes to that, will be a poorish translator desperate for > work. There are quite a few of those here, who will accept > any job at all, so things begin to look even worse. > > Martha wrote > > 1. Is the work paginated exactly the same in both languages? I would > think not, which makes a translated index worse than useless - it makes it > a howling frustration to the reader. "Here's an index -- haha, no it's > not! April Fool!" > > The pagination will be very different in the English edition > - around 15% less text due to the more wordy nature of > Catalan. You've also got the problem of words with no > one-on-one relationship (e.g. 'papallona' can mean moth or > butterfly, there is no exact translation for either, so you'd > have to read the text to find out which > is being talked about). > > Plus differences in word order between the > two languages means that in Catalan a reader > wouldn't search in an index on a qualifier (e.g. American > Indian languages rather than languages, American Indian), > something that is common in English and which English indexers > cater for. Therefore the structure of the index might be quite > different if compiled by an English indexer. > > I've also had bad experiences myself in translating long > lists of isolated words - there's so much room for massive > errors in interpretation out of context. > > I have in fact stressed the issue of credibility and competence > with the publisher, and have pointed out that he can expect the > English index to be included in an English review of the > work, something that would never happen here. And in fact they > would not be saving that much money. I think the issue is > more one of national pride: they think they have just invented > indexes, and seem completely unaware of the indexing profession > and the situation in the English-speaking world. They didn't > even know that indexing programmes existed, or that there were > professional societies in other countries. > > Louise > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 10:11:38 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: Fw: indexable material In-Reply-To: <92642526501@voyager.together.net> Sharon wrote: > I'd discuss this with the project >manager. > Agree. I think it depends on the field you're working in, and also the audience. I'm doing a book on the use of Morse code for disabled people (absolutely fas fasa sd < Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kate Welsh Subject: Legal Index - Solution I promised I'd let you all know what happened with the Rules of Court index. I faxed a proposal letter to the publisher, outlining which aspects of the old index should be emulated, which should not, and why. Basically, it was "yes" to double posting, "yes" to practitioner's terms, and "not a good idea" to wordy and over-detailed subheads. And you can bet I was pretty tactful when explaining the dangers of putting the law _in_ the index instead of pointing _to_ it with the index! The proposal was reviewed by several (govt) lawyers and the judge's committee, and approved. Kate ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 09:27:02 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: What do you call this? In-Reply-To: <199905102228.PAA06565@nccn.net> At 03:25 PM 5/10/99 -0700, Karen Field wrote: >Michael wrote (to Dick Evans): >>As you tacitly acknowledged in asking your question, "localization of text" >>and "internationalization of text" don't convey the specific meaning you're >>after. > > I disagree. I think audience analysis is the pivotal factor here. >Most computer professionals, (the intended audience of the book on Java, >no?) would look for a term such as "localization" in the index-it's a common >term among such professionals' vocabularies. For example, if I'm a >programmer working with Java and using this book to learn how to use Java to >change text direction, I'm going to look under "localization" or >"internationalization"-because that is the concept of my field that I'm >applying. Maybe the safest route is to double-post or provide a "see" >reference, as in "text direction. See localization of text." Karen, I stand corrected and acknowledge that "internationalization" and "localization" do belong as main headings in the index (perhaps one as a _See_ ref to the other), but I don't think either one of them alone suffices for indexing the narrower topic of text direction. "Internationalization" followed by the subheading "of text direction" or maybe just "text direction" (along the lines suggested by both Seth and Dick) would do it, and these headings flipped into "text direction: internationalization of" or maybe "text direction: in internationalization" would complete the picture. I wouldn't want to equate "text direction" with "internationalization" or "localization" in a _See_ reference. At 06:45 PM 5/10/99 -0400, Richard Evans wrote: > >I've encountered several othe references to "internationalization", so I >will probably end up with something like this: > >internationalization > standard classes for > of text direction > variables and > >as well as: > >text, changing reading direction of > >I may be over-analyzing, but I see a distinction between simply changing >the direction of a line of text (as one might do for emphasis in a >presentation) and changing the direction to accommodate different >conventions of reading. Dick, maybe you _are_ overanalyzing in writing "text, changing reading direction of", but I'm more interested in addressing the "burial" of the key word "direction" or the key words "reading direction" in the subheading. In the case of a main heading followed by many subheadings, like "text" in many technical indexes, I try to make scanning easier on the reader by cutting phrases like "changing the direction of" down to their essentials like "direction of" (as suggested by Kevin) or "reading direction" -- in order to put the key word(s) first -- and if I really think I should include a word like "changing" I add it on as a subsubheading (as specified by some publishers). Also, in line with my earlier post in this thread, and especially if your "text" entry block is large, I think I'd include the uninverted heading "text direction: changing", "text direction: internationalization of", or "text direction: in internationalization", in which there's no need to compromise on specificity. Michael ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 15:57:40 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: EMickiT@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Techie Tip In a message dated 5/10/1999 8:43:12 PM Central Daylight Time, LoriLathrop@COMPUSERVE.COM writes: << Just in case you are in the market for a zip drive ...>> For those with any Iomega drive, registered ustomers are currently being offered free backup software, QuikSync, which can be downloaded from their website. If you are registered, Iomega may send you an e-mail about it. http://specials.iomega.com/X?/4982-5807819/FREE System requirements: 486 or higher, Either Microsoft Windows NT, 95, 98, 8MB of RAM (16 recommended), 30MB hard drive space, Floppy drive and floppy disk, 2X CD-ROM drive, Zip, Jaz, or Clik! drive and disk. As members of the list frequently discuss the importance of backups, I thought those with Iomega products might benefit from the above information. Erin (Micki) Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 15:36:10 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael L. Olason" Subject: Dragon Naturally Speaking Heather and Charles, I use Cindex DOS for indexing and Dragon Naturally Speaking Preferred. I have a Pentium II computer and I do not feel I need a Pentium III for Dragon at this point. I'm sure the Pentium III is great, but I cannot outtalk Dragon with my present system and I'm a pretty fast talker (grin). When I dictate to Dragon, I dictate a complete Cindex record, save the file as text, and then import into Dragon using Read/tab command. For example, I would dictate dogs tab-key feeding tab-key 20 hyphen 30 newline. If I come across an unusual name or term, I type the term if I don't want to add it to the dictionary. If I think the name or term will be used in other indexes, I will train Dragon to recognize it. Using the Vocabulary Builder is great for adding odd terms to your different subject dictionaries. And you can build Dictation Shorthands for long phrases. For example, I dictate daisy and Dragon will insert daisy and the latin name in parenthesis. I have these kind of terms in my Garden dictionary. I have found Dragon to be a real time saver. I can talk a lot faster than I can type, and with Dragon, the words are spelled correctly. I do have a problem after dictating for a few hours...my speech gets kindof lazy and I start to get errors. So I find if I exaggerate my mouth movements, the errors lessen...it looks funny though (grin). Susan Olason ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 14:31:13 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: Dragon Naturally Speaking Hi all, I'm wondering if anyone out there can answer the following questions about using Dragon: 1. How does Dragon react to background music or other kinds of noise? 2. What about background talking (family members wondering in and out of your office)? Thanks, Sylvia Coates "Michael L. Olason" wrote: > Heather and Charles, > > I use Cindex DOS for indexing and Dragon Naturally Speaking Preferred. > I have a Pentium II computer and I do not feel I need a Pentium III for > Dragon at this point. I'm sure the Pentium III is great, but I cannot > outtalk Dragon with my present system and I'm a pretty fast talker > (grin). > > When I dictate to Dragon, I dictate a complete Cindex record, save the > file as text, and then import into Dragon using Read/tab command. For > example, I would dictate dogs tab-key feeding tab-key 20 hyphen 30 > newline. > > If I come across an unusual name or term, I type the term if I don't > want to add it to the dictionary. If I think the name or term will be > used in other indexes, I will train Dragon to recognize it. Using the > Vocabulary Builder is great for adding odd terms to your different > subject dictionaries. > > And you can build Dictation Shorthands for long phrases. For example, > I dictate daisy and Dragon will insert daisy and the latin name in > parenthesis. I have these kind of terms in my Garden dictionary. > > I have found Dragon to be a real time saver. I can talk a lot faster > than I can type, and with Dragon, the words are spelled correctly. I > do have a problem after dictating for a few hours...my speech gets > kindof lazy and I start to get errors. So I find if I exaggerate my > mouth movements, the errors lessen...it looks funny though (grin). > > Susan Olason ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 11:29:31 +0200 Reply-To: Louise Ferguson Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Louise Ferguson Subject: translating an index Martha, Francine, Christy, Carol et al Many thanks to those who've responded on this one (but if you haven't yet and would like to, feel free). I'm putting together a small dossier regarding this project to present to top-level management, who are aware as of yesterday that the translator they planned giving this work to will not touch it either as a translation or as an index. We are also approaching the British academics overseeing the English text with a view to bringing more external pressure to bear on the recalcitrant publisher. Some of the thoughts on this from all of you have helped me clarify my arguments. It's also good to hear other people saying the things I had thought myself. I'll let you know the outcome, good or bad. Louise ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 15:25:39 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeri Lee Subject: Re: Dragon Naturally Speaking In-Reply-To: <199905112132.OAA14861@mx1.eskimo.com> --=====================_23090022==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:31 PM 5/11/1999 +0000, you wrote: >Hi all, > >I'm wondering if anyone out there can answer the following questions about >using Dragon: > >1. How does Dragon react to background music or other kinds of noise? With gibberish . > >2. What about background talking (family members wondering in and out of >your office)? Same. The best way to handle this is to train with the mike very close to your mouth with the flat part of the mike aimed straight at the mouth. My partner actually touches his chin with his SpeechMike so no sounds other than his voice get in. I don't do it quite that close. He exhibits at meetings and conventions, and says he has no problem with bckground noise. Jeri > >Thanks, >Sylvia Coates > >"Michael L. Olason" wrote: > >> Heather and Charles, >> >> I use Cindex DOS for indexing and Dragon Naturally Speaking Preferred. >> I have a Pentium II computer and I do not feel I need a Pentium III for >> Dragon at this point. I'm sure the Pentium III is great, but I cannot >> outtalk Dragon with my present system and I'm a pretty fast talker >> (grin). >> >> When I dictate to Dragon, I dictate a complete Cindex record, save the >> file as text, and then import into Dragon using Read/tab command. For >> example, I would dictate dogs tab-key feeding tab-key 20 hyphen 30 >> newline. >> >> If I come across an unusual name or term, I type the term if I don't >> want to add it to the dictionary. If I think the name or term will be >> used in other indexes, I will train Dragon to recognize it. Using the >> Vocabulary Builder is great for adding odd terms to your different >> subject dictionaries. >> >> And you can build Dictation Shorthands for long phrases. For example, >> I dictate daisy and Dragon will insert daisy and the latin name in >> parenthesis. I have these kind of terms in my Garden dictionary. >> >> I have found Dragon to be a real time saver. I can talk a lot faster >> than I can type, and with Dragon, the words are spelled correctly. I >> do have a problem after dictating for a few hours...my speech gets >> kindof lazy and I start to get errors. So I find if I exaggerate my >> mouth movements, the errors lessen...it looks funny though (grin). >> >> Susan Olason > --=====================_23090022==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 02:31 PM 5/11/1999 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I'm wondering if anyone out there can answer the following questions about
>using Dragon:
>
>1. How does Dragon react to background music or other kinds of noise?

With gibberish <G>.
>
>2. What about background talking (family members wondering in and out of
>your office)?

Same.

The best way to handle this is to train with the mike very close to your mouth with the flat part of the mike aimed straight at the mouth. My partner actually touches his chin with his SpeechMike so no sounds other than his voice get in. I don't do it quite that close. He exhibits at meetings and conventions, and says he has no problem with bckground noise.

Jeri
>
>Thanks,
>Sylvia Coates
>
>"Michael L. Olason" wrote:
>
>> Heather and Charles,
>>
>> I use Cindex DOS for indexing and Dragon Naturally Speaking Preferred.
>> I have a Pentium II computer and I do not feel I need a Pentium III for
>> Dragon at this point. I'm sure the Pentium III is great, but I cannot
>> outtalk Dragon with my present system and I'm a pretty fast talker
>> (grin).
>>
>> When I dictate to Dragon, I dictate a complete Cindex record, save the
>> file as text, and then import into Dragon using Read/tab command. For
>> example, I would dictate dogs tab-key feeding tab-key 20 hyphen 30
>> newline.
>>
>> If I come across an unusual name or term, I type the term if I don't
>> want to add it to the dictionary. If I think the name or term will be
>> used in other indexes, I will train Dragon to recognize it. Using the
>> Vocabulary Builder is great for adding odd terms to your different
>> subject dictionaries.
>>
>> And you can build Dictation Shorthands for long phrases. For example,
>> I dictate daisy and Dragon will insert daisy and the latin name in
>> parenthesis. I have these kind of terms in my Garden dictionary.
>>
>> I have found Dragon to be a real time saver. I can talk a lot faster
>> than I can type, and with Dragon, the words are spelled correctly. I
>> do have a problem after dictating for a few hours...my speech gets
>> kindof lazy and I start to get errors. So I find if I exaggerate my
>> mouth movements, the errors lessen...it looks funny though (grin).
>>
>> Susan Olason
>
--=====================_23090022==_.ALT-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 18:29:42 -0400 Reply-To: leditor@frontiernet.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "larry e. edmonson" Subject: Re: Dragon Naturally Speaking > I'm wondering if anyone out there can answer the following questions >about using Dragon: > 1. How does Dragon react to background music or other kinds of noise? > > 2. What about background talking (family members wondering in and out of your office)? Neither should be a problem, regardless of the volume, with a headset mike. It never has been for me. Not even once, regardless of how loud the "background" music or other noise is. Hypothetically, the same result could be obtained from a boom mike but the subject gets much more complicated with such a mike. Larry Edmonson ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 18:50:37 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Dragon Naturally Speaking In a message dated 5/11/99 2:35:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time, scoates@SLIP.NET writes: << 1. How does Dragon react to background music or other kinds of noise? 2. What about background talking (family members wondering in and out of your office)? >> I've had no problem with background noise. I have a five year old who is constantly trying to interrupt me. Nothing comes up when he speaks. The only problem is when I forget to turn off the mike and speak to him! I also have dogs barking in the background, family noises, etc. I have not tried it with music in the background. On the whole I have been very pleased with it. I am currently indexing my second book using Dragon, and all is going very well. Leslie Frank Words Indexing and Editing ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 18:55:36 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diane Worden Subject: Re: What do you call this? Dick, How about one of the following? reading conventions or reading text international conventions for or text reading, conventions for Diane in Kazoo ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 19:17:25 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diane Brenner Subject: Re: Dragon Naturally Speaking Is there a Web site for this product? A demo? Diane Diane Brenner dbrenner@javanet.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 19:01:25 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: Dragon Naturally Speaking On 5/11/1999 9:31 AM Sylvia Coates wrote (in part): >I'm wondering if anyone out there can answer the following questions about >using Dragon: > >1. How does Dragon react to background music or other kinds of noise? > >2. What about background talking (family members wondering in and out of >your office)? I'd add one exception to the answers others have given you. A determined parakeet with a shrill voice can disrupt operations. My wife does medical transcription and when one of our birds believes she is talking to him, he flies to her shoulder and sets up a dialogue. This causes the voice recognition accuracy to drop. At that point, my wife often switches to manual typing until the bird loses interest. Craig Brown ===================================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing http://www.i1.net/~lastword (314)352-9094 fax: (314)481-9254 ===================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 21:44:00 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Dragon Naturally Speaking In a message dated 5/11/99 4:21:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, dbrenner@JAVANET.COM writes: << Is there a Web site for this product? A demo? >> www.dragonsys.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 20:55:02 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary Hunyadi Subject: database software I am negotiating a contract for an index to several years of a gardening magazine. I provided them with a sample hard copy index of 2 issues and they have suggested that they would like the index in the form of a searchable database. I have been using SkyIndex and I don't think this is what I need to be using for this particular project. I did use Authex Plus on a 115-year newspaper indexing project; it is very easy to use and inexpensive. But I have never heard anything about it from this group. What other software is out there for a job of this kind? Any standards for the industry? This may require that they purchase software, so cost may become an issue. Thank you all in advance. Mary Pelletier-Hunyadi International Falls, MN hunyadi@norshore.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 18:50:27 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Back Words Indexing Subject: Panic Rising The book I'm indexing distinguishes between "Jews" and "the Jews" as it looks at the possible causes of anti-Judaism in the Gospels (which seem to inconsistently imply that "Jews" are us and "the Jews" are them ). The indexing rule says not to alphabetize on the word "the". But, in this case, the "the" is the operative word. But, if I alphabetize on the "the", the phrase "the Jews" will be separated from "Jews" and it will be less obvious that the two are distinguished from each other - and SOMEONE will say the indexer was incompetent. Opinions, please. Martha (muttering vaguely about rocks and hard places) Back Words Indexing PS Virtual chocolate to anyone who noticed that I worked "the" into one sentence three times in a row... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 23:43:22 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Macrex Support Office Subject: Re: Dragon Naturally Speaking If you have a good microphone well placed and the music/talking is in the background, it will probably not affect Dragon's ability to recognize speech. This really is in the realm of trial and error as some sounds carry better than others. Please note that some Macrex users have been using Dragon (directly with Macrex as well as with their favorite word processor and other programs) for at least five years. Dragon has improved greatly in recent years but the downside of improved performance is that you need a more powerful computer (and lots of RAM) to do a good job and Windows 95/98/NT is essential. Any Macrex user looking for assistance/guidance is welcome to any of the data I have on the subject of voice recognition. Gale Rhoades Macrex Support Office, North America voice: 650-756-0821 fax: 650-757-1567 Wise Bytes P. O. Box 3051 Daly City, CA 94015 macrex@aol.com www.macrex.cix.co.uk In a message dated 5/11/1999 2:35:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time, scoates@SLIP.NET writes: << 1. How does Dragon react to background music or other kinds of noise? 2. What about background talking (family members wondering in and out of your office)? >> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 00:45:47 -0400 Reply-To: "Seth A. Maislin" Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Seth A. Maislin" Organization: Focus Information Services Subject: Re: Panic Rising This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01BE9C10.C65AC5C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The most obvious and perhaps also the best solution is to index "the Jews" and "Jews" separately, and then sort "the Jews" immediately under "Jews." Then, if you have lots of entries for "Jews," add a cross reference at the top of entry someplace, like this: Jews (see also "the Jews" below), 60-70, 103 subentry subentry ... the Jews (see also "Jews" above), 10, 60-62 subentry subentry It may look strange, but who cares? It's okay to disobey the standards once in a while, if it means making the index better. - Seth Seth Maislin Focus Information Services smaislin@world.std.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Back Words Indexing To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 9:50 PM Subject: Panic Rising The book I'm indexing distinguishes between "Jews" and "the Jews" as it looks at the possible causes of anti-Judaism in the Gospels (which seem to inconsistently imply that "Jews" are us and "the Jews" are them ). The indexing rule says not to alphabetize on the word "the". But, in this case, the "the" is the operative word. But, if I alphabetize on the "the", the phrase "the Jews" will be separated from "Jews" and it will be less obvious that the two are distinguished from each other - and SOMEONE will say the indexer was incompetent. Opinions, please. Martha (muttering vaguely about rocks and hard places) Back Words Indexing PS Virtual chocolate to anyone who noticed that I worked "the" into one sentence three times in a row... ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01BE9C10.C65AC5C0 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Seth Blue Small.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <005f01be9c32$4d64c4a0$0d493ea6@focuscomputer> R0lGODlhRAAeAHcAACH5BAEAANcALAAAAABEAB4AhwAAAAAAMwAAZgAAmQAAzAAA/wAzAAAzMwAz ZgAzmQAzzAAz/wBmAABmMwBmZgBmmQBmzABm/wCZAACZMwCZZgCZmQCZzACZ/wDMAADMMwDMZgDM mQDMzADM/wD/AAD/MwD/ZgD/mQD/zAD//zMAADMAMzMAZjMAmTMAzDMA/zMzADMzMzMzZjMzmTMz zDMz/zNmADNmMzNmZjNmmTNmzDNm/zOZADOZMzOZZjOZmTOZzDOZ/zPMADPMMzPMZjPMmTPMzDPM /zP/ADP/MzP/ZjP/mTP/zDP//2YAAGYAM2YAZmYAmWYAzGYA/2YzAGYzM2YzZmYzmWYzzGYz/2Zm AGZmM2ZmZmZmmWZmzGZm/2aZAGaZM2aZZmaZmWaZzGaZ/2bMAGbMM2bMZmbMmWbMzGbM/2b/AGb/ M2b/Zmb/mWb/zGb//5kAAJkAM5kAZpkAmZkAzJkA/5kzAJkzM5kzZpkzmZkzzJkz/5lmAJlmM5lm ZplmmZlmzJlm/5mZAJmZM5mZZpmZmZmZzJmZ/5nMAJnMM5nMZpnMmZnMzJnM/5n/AJn/M5n/Zpn/ mZn/zJn//8wAAMwAM8wAZswAmcwAzMwA/8wzAMwzM8wzZswzmcwzzMwz/8xmAMxmM8xmZsxmmcxm zMxm/8yZAMyZM8yZZsyZmcyZzMyZ/8zMAMzMM8zMZszMmczMzMzM/8z/AMz/M8z/Zsz/mcz/zMz/ //8AAP8AM/8AZv8Amf8AzP8A//8zAP8zM/8zZv8zmf8zzP8z//9mAP9mM/9mZv9mmf9mzP9m//+Z AP+ZM/+ZZv+Zmf+ZzP+Z///MAP/MM//MZv/Mmf/MzP/M////AP//M///Zv//mf//zP///wAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAj/AK8JHEiwIMFWrVoZNGjQoEGDBg0aNEhw0IssWV4MMmjQoEGDBg0aNGjw2qAXBAe1MmjQoEGD Bg0aNGjwRauCgwwaNGjQoEGDBg0WzDLI4CCDBVtlMWjQoEGDBg0SfNGqYKtWBgm2KpDFoEGDBg0a NDiw1QuDBg1myTLIoEGDBg0aNDhwUBaDBgu2epGllUGDBg0aNGhwYJZBBg0WHJQli8GBrQYZNGjQ oMGCL1oZNFjwxaBBBgUOKpDFoEGDBg0WfGHQYMFWL7K0MnitVYEsBg0aNGjQ4AuDBgsOypLF4LVW LwYZNGjQoEGDrbIYNFgwy4tWBVtleZHFoEGDBg0a/7w2KIvBgq1aEXyRheCgF1lavWhl0KBBgwYN Xhs0yGBBgINetLp2rVWBVq0GZXmRpdW1QVkAXhM4kGBBgwcRCszSKuHAQS+yZMlS4MWLLIMIvmiV MGHChAKztEpYsNWgAoMODnqRMGHChANfEGz14kUrhFkKIHzRKmHChAkHFhjYqsCgQYMODnqR5WCr FwkTJkxI8MXAQVmutRpksFWWLK0OvmiVMGHChANbZRk4aNC1QYMMZmn14mCrFwkTJmz1olXCa4Oy DBw0qNULg1latXpx8MWghAkTXnvxIksrhIMGDWyVJUurgoMGXRs0yGCrF61evHiRpVXChAVbZRn0 ov/VwSytBrYqMKjgoEECs7QymGXQi0ECB71olTBhwVZZWr140argi4GtXhQo2CrLwBcGW714MYhg qxeDEia81mpgqyzXWr3I0kpgqxcCsxQYlGXQwEEAs1y7du3aC4DXBA7MUqDVwIGtXrxoNXDgwIED r7XKMvBaqyytrg168SLLiwIvXmRpda3Vi0GDXmRpNfBaloEDCwwaOHBgqxdZWg0cOHDgtVYvWg0U 2CpLK4GtWr0Y1GqgwFZZsrQaOLDVwIFZBg4cOHDQixdZWg0ceK3VoBcvBg0cKDDLIIGtXgC8JnAg wYIGDyIc2GpQlgIAXwgc+CLLIIDXBA4keK1VliwVLwYVLFiwYMGCBQsWvNaqVauC1wICADs= ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01BE9C10.C65AC5C0-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 05:54:05 -0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: Re: Panic Rising Martha (Back Words Indexing) wrote: Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ralph REID Subject: Re: database software Mary Try the best database available today - Advanced Revelation Regards Ralph -----Original Message----- From: Mary Hunyadi To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Wednesday, 12 May 1999 11:57 AM Subject: database software >I am negotiating a contract for an index to several years of a gardening >magazine. I provided them with a sample hard copy index of 2 issues and >they have suggested that they would like the index in the form of a >searchable database. I have been using SkyIndex and I don't think this is >what I need to be using for this particular project. I did use Authex Plus >on a 115-year newspaper indexing project; it is very easy to use and >inexpensive. But I have never heard anything about it from this group. >What other software is out there for a job of this kind? Any standards for >the industry? This may require that they purchase software, so cost may >become an issue. Thank you all in advance. > >Mary Pelletier-Hunyadi >International Falls, MN >hunyadi@norshore.net > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 21:27:02 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: Panic Rising In-Reply-To: <199905120429.VAA22626@nccn.net> At 06:50 PM 5/11/99 -0700, Martha wrote: >The book I'm indexing distinguishes between "Jews" and "the Jews" as it >looks at the possible causes of anti-Judaism in the Gospels (which seem to >inconsistently imply that "Jews" are us and "the Jews" are them ). The >indexing rule says not to alphabetize on the word "the". > >But, in this case, the "the" is the operative word. > >But, if I alphabetize on the "the", the phrase "the Jews" will be separated >from "Jews" and it will be less obvious that the two are distinguished from >each other - and SOMEONE will say the indexer was incompetent. > >Opinions, please. Martha, I would hope that I could include all references to Jews under "Jews" by wording the subheadings well enough to make the meanings clear, but if this were not enough I'd probably use two successive main headings: either "Jews" and "Jews", each followed by short distinguishing qualifiers (glosses), or "Jews" followed by "the Jews", as Seth proposes, perhaps also followed by short distinguishing qualifiers. Michael Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 530-272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:55:20 +0100 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: 'The' Jews I would have thought 'the Jews' in English translations of the Gospels generally means the contemporary religious leaders and their associates, whereas 'Jews' means the Jewish people as a whole. Regards _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 07:22:21 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diane Brenner Subject: Re: Panic Rising Back Words Indexing wrote: > The book I'm indexing distinguishes between "Jews" and "the Jews" as it > looks at the possible causes of anti-Judaism in the Gospels (which seem to > inconsistently imply that "Jews" are us and "the Jews" are them ). The > indexing rule says not to alphabetize on the word "the". > I wouldn't alphabetize under "the" I'd never think to look up "the Jews" under T. How about, assuming the entire book is about the Gospels: Jews postive references to negative references to or Jews self-references as outsiders or Jews, X, XX-XX, see also anti-Jewish references anti-Jewish references, X, X, XX, see also Jews Diane ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 08:43:17 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Hughes Subject: Re: database software In a message dated 99-05-11 21:58:56 EDT, you write: << I provided them with a sample hard copy index of 2 issues and they have suggested that they would like the index in the form of a searchable database. >> The software package you are using to index the journals will probably produce a file that can be directly imported into most commercial database packages. I've used CINDEX to produce a file which I can import into both EXCEL and ACCESS. The problem isn't in producing a database file, its in providing the search forms/query screens and report formats etc. Providing this type of product will mean extra cost for the client since the database designers get more per hour than indexers. The publishers may have a database software package that they are already comfortable using and for which they have technical support. In this case you would only have to provide them with something like an EXCEL (or any delimited datafile) file that could be imported into their database system. You shouldn't have to invest in new software unless you can pass the cost onto the client. Sharon ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:16:46 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Patricia H. Gross" Subject: Re: Panic Rising In-Reply-To: <199905121126.HAA14981@mx06.erols.com> I think that some of the question of what one does with "Jews" and "the Jews" depends on the author's focus; it's almost certainly NOT a question of "us" versus "them" and probably not a question of positive versus negative references. The Hebrew is probably more literally "Judeans" in both cases, but it is possible that the author could be meaning Jews (Jewish leaders) Jews (Jewish people in general) or Jews (Judeans) Jews (Jewish leaders) In any case, it would be absolutely necessary to check with the author before attempting any differentiation. I think in some circumstances, I might incorporate the word "the" in the index entry, but I'd invert the phrase and put it in quotes: Jews "Jews, the" It would be a last resort if I couldn't find parenthetical differentiation between the terms that the author accepted as comparable to his/her meaning. But really, when you think about it, if the author is differentiating between "Jews" and "the Jews" it does seem foolish to protest that you can't include "the" in an index entry. It may be enough of an integral part of the text that it can't be eliminated. By the way, I do hope that the focus of the book is on "anti-Judaism" in the Gospels; most scholars consider "anti-Semitism" a modern term that is quite inappropriate to apply back to the the first centuries of the common era. Patricia Gross ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:31:23 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: TAHUDOBA@AOL.COM Subject: fractions--not an indexing question Hi folks, I've got a non-indexing question. Anyone know the ASCII/ANSI character set numbers for the fractions 1/3 and 5/8? I need to insert them into a manuscript that I'm copyediting. Thanks much. Terri Hudoba Indexers Plus (plus being copyediting at the moment) tahudoba@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 08:34:22 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was maryann@ITASCA.REVISOR.LEG.STATE.MN.US From: Maryann Corbett Organization: Revisor of Statutes Subject: Re: Panic Rising I'm guessing that the distinction between "Jews" and "the Jews" is based on the use of the phrase "the Jews" in the Gospel (and Epistles) of John. The standard critical view is that John was a late Gospel, and that at the time of its writing tensions were high between the new Christian community (which didn't have that name yet, and whose members still saw themselves as faithful Jews) and the existing Jewish community. When John writes "the Jews" he seems to be referring to all those who were opposing the followers of Jesus. I think that's the basis for the claim that, in the Gospels "Jews" is "us" and "the Jews" is "them." The original post didn't say this, but I wonder whether the book is talking about "the Jews" themselves or about the author's use of the _term_? Knowing that might help us see more clearly how to index those ideas. -- Maryann Corbett Language Specialist Office of the Revisor of Statutes Minnesota Legislature 651-297-2952 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 06:29:32 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: Panic Rising In-Reply-To: <199905121135.EAA13621@decibel.electriciti.com> I strongly agree with either of Christine's choices: Both are most helpful to index users. I would not include quote marks--typical of the barbarians in the USA :-). Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 07:23:58 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: Panic Rising In-Reply-To: <199905120437.VAA05832@decibel.electriciti.com> I think we need to appreciate that Martha needs to index the sense of the distinction between "Jews" and "the Jews" in the book she is working with--not necessarily what we as individuals believe. I am impressed with Martha's sensitivity to the distinction, which I think other Biblical scholars have made. Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 10:38:56 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Iris B. Ailin-Pyzik" Subject: Re: fractions--not an indexing question As near as I can tell (looking at the table in QBasic), the standard character set only has numbers for 1/2 and 1/4 (171 and 172). Beyond that, I think you are stuck with 1/3 and 5/8. Otherwise, the publisher needs to give you whatever codes they are using in their system. Iris TAHUDOBA@aol.com wrote: > > Hi folks, > > I've got a non-indexing question. > > Anyone know the ASCII/ANSI character set numbers for the fractions 1/3 and > 5/8? I need to insert them into a manuscript that I'm copyediting. > > Thanks much. > > Terri Hudoba > Indexers Plus (plus being copyediting at the moment) > tahudoba@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 08:32:39 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lyn Grimes Subject: Question Re: Fed Tax Form SS-8 I am negotiating a project and the company is insisting on having in hand an SS-8 (Determination of Employee Work Status for Purposes of Federal Employment Taxes and Income Tax Withholding) as well as a W-9. I have not encountered this with previous projects. Does any one have any experience with this particular form? Is filing this form really required? Please respond to me directly and I will gladly summarize for the list. Lyn Grimes lyng@kendra.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 12:23:36 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kate Binder Subject: Re: fractions--not an indexing question On 5/12/99 9:31 AM, TAHUDOBA@aol.com wrote: >Anyone know the ASCII/ANSI character set numbers for the fractions 1/3 and >5/8? I need to insert them into a manuscript that I'm copyediting. If the book will be typeset on a Macintosh (as most of them are), you might want to skip the fraction characters and just type them as you have above. Fractions are PC-only characters and the fractions will just have to be recreated by the typesetter, introducing the possibility of an error when she retypes them. Kate ------------------------------------- Kate Binder Prospect Hill Publishing Services kate@prospecthillpub.com / www.prospecthillpub.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 13:01:52 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: Dragon Naturally Speaking In a message dated 05/11/1999 4:50:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, oleduke@IX.NETCOM.COM writes: > I > do have a problem after dictating for a few hours...my speech gets > kindof lazy and I start to get errors. So I find if I exaggerate my > mouth movements, the errors lessen...it looks funny though (grin). Susan, Have you checked whether the problem is your mouth :-) , or that your system memory resources are too low? Try rebooting your computer to free up memory that may be "hung up" from other programs that have been used. Some programs do not release all memory after being closed & that can cause you to have too little available for this memory hog of a program. Ann Truesdale ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 13:01:55 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: Dragon's Naturally Speaking (& Cleansweep) Leslie, Do you mean that you had to *uninstall* Cleansweep or just turn it off? I have Cleansweep, and have changed the setting so that it does not run in the background when I boot, only when I manually activate it. I did this to free more memory for DNS. Just wondering if this may be part of the problem with poor performance of DNS on this computer, in addition to the problem mentioned in my last post. Ann Truesdale > I have been working with Dragon Naturally Speaking for the last two weeks. I > found it relatively easy to train (the first half hour and then a little > more > time speaking on my own), but I did find that one of my constantly running > programs interfered with Dragon. I did keep Clean Sweep on my computer, but > for some reason Dragon had trouble while Clean Sweep was on. I dumped it, > and > things have been fine. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 13:01:49 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: Dragon Naturally Speaking (Web sites) In a message dated 05/11/1999 9:47:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LLFEdServ@AOL.COM writes: > > << Is there a Web site for this product? A demo? > >> > www.dragonsys.com > Try also: http://idt.net/~edrose19/page7.html http://www.synapseadaptive.com/joel/default.htm http://www.synapseadaptive.com/ I don't think there is a demo. Some built in sound cards do not work well with DNS. One case is the Dell Dimension, which is what I have. :-( DNS runs very slowly on my system and is also apparently less accurate than usual. Check the above web sites for info on which computers have this problem (and other tips). The only solution is to disable the built in sound card and install another approved card. Ann Truesdale ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 13:14:19 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeanne Moody Subject: Re: database software This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0046_01BE9D42.8295A480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You might consider ProCite, which is a searchable flat-file database program from which you can make indexes as well. It comes with a template for newspaper bibliographic data that can easily be customized if you wish. If the client wants, they can provide your database on a disk with a ProCite "read only" version, that one buys separately from the regular ProCite. Jeanne Moody -----Original Message----- From: Mary Hunyadi To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 9:57 PM Subject: database software >I am negotiating a contract for an index to several years of a gardening >magazine. I provided them with a sample hard copy index of 2 issues and >they have suggested that they would like the index in the form of a >searchable database. I have been using SkyIndex and I don't think this is >what I need to be using for this particular project. I did use Authex Plus >on a 115-year newspaper indexing project; it is very easy to use and >inexpensive. But I have never heard anything about it from this group. >What other software is out there for a job of this kind? Any standards for >the industry? This may require that they purchase software, so cost may >become an issue. Thank you all in advance. > >Mary Pelletier-Hunyadi >International Falls, MN >hunyadi@norshore.net > ------=_NextPart_000_0046_01BE9D42.8295A480 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; name="Jeanne C. Moody.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Jeanne C. Moody.vcf" BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Moody;Jeanne;C. FN:Jeanne C. Moody ORG:Beaver Wood Associates TEL;WORK;VOICE:603-835-7900 TEL;WORK;FAX:603-835-6279 ADR;WORK:;;P.O. Box 290;Alstead Center;NH;03602 LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:P.O. Box 290=0D=0AAlstead Center, NH 03602 EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:jcmoody@top.monad.net REV:19990513T171419Z END:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_0046_01BE9D42.8295A480-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 10:45:02 -0700 Reply-To: nkoenig Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: nkoenig Subject: Re: Panic Rising The use of "Jews" and "the Jews" as separate main headings seems a bit forced to me. Without some qualifiers tacked on, the difference is something less than transparent. To develop what Maryann says a bit further, how about something like this (but more elegant): Jesus, followers of opposed by other Jews regard themselves as Jews regard themselves as separate from Jews Jews, followers of Jesus regard themselves as followers of Jesus regard themselves as separate from oppose followers of Jesus The distinction between "Jews" and "the Jews" evidently reflects the author's usage and not a claim concerning John's use of the Greek "Ioudaioi." Although I try to follow an author's terminology whenever possible, it may be the case that using Jews/the Jews carries things a bit far. In any case, I take it that what the author is referring to is the process of regarding the Jews as different from Christians and, utlimately, as responsible for Jesus' execution. Thus, many scholars regard the Gospel of John as the beginning of antisemitism. >I'm guessing that the distinction between "Jews" and "the Jews" is based >on the use of the phrase "the Jews" in the Gospel (and Epistles) of >John. > >The standard critical view is that John was a late Gospel, and that at >the time of its writing tensions were high between the new Christian >community (which didn't have that name yet, and whose members still saw >themselves as faithful Jews) and the existing Jewish community. When >John writes "the Jews" he seems to be referring to all those who were >opposing the followers of Jesus. I think that's the basis for the claim >that, in the Gospels "Jews" is "us" and "the Jews" is "them." > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 13:45:17 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Dragon's Naturally Speaking (& Cleansweep) Ann, I deleted Clean Sweep until I have time to mess with it. It made a world of difference. But please keep in mind that I am working with a brand new computer, a Dell Dimension also, I believe. It's the Dell desktop Pentium II. I've had no problem with the sound card, but I got the computer, Dragon, Cindex for Windows, and a new project all in about 2 days. That basically means that all I've cared about is getting everything running so I could earn money again. I haven't had time to really try anything else. The sound card seems to be working just fine, the mike works well. The only problem I had was with Clean Sweep, and now that that's gone, I'm happy. I dictate directly into Dragon and then import the files, chapter by chapter into Cindex. I always have the current index file open behind Dragon so I can quickly check how I might have worded something or if I have any other entries referring to a specific topic. This has worked very well for me, so far. Leslie Frank Words Indexing and Editing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 13:54:10 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: translating an index I'm not a translator. But trying to translate an index sounds to me very similar to updating an index to a previous edition. As you may recall, we discussed that a few months ago on Index-L to the sounds of uproarious laughter. Both processes involve trying to guess, on each page, what the indexer indexed and what they called it. Easier with a good index, but still way way more time-consuming than just indexing it from scratch. Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 11:33:13 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Question Re: Fed Tax Form SS-8 At 08:32 AM 5/12/1999 -0700, Lyn Grimes wrote: >I am negotiating a project and the company is insisting on >having in hand an SS-8 (Determination of Employee Work >Status for Purposes of Federal Employment Taxes and Income >Tax Withholding) as well as a W-9. I have not encountered >this with previous projects. Does any one have any >experience with this particular form? Is filing this form >really required? > >Please respond to me directly and I will gladly summarize >for the list. Lyn, I'm going to go ahead and answer on-list, because I think more and more of us will encounter this situation. I haven't actually had to use the form myself, but I know that its purpose is to establish that you are an independent contractor (or not), for the purpose of withholding taxes. Almost certainly, you will be considered an independent contractor rather than an employee...and the company wants to be able to prove this. The IRS is cracking down on shady dealers who claim their employees really are ICs, so they don't have to deal with withholding or paying the employer's share of federal taxes. Legitimate companies will be asked to prove the status of any "questionable" contractors or employees, so many are just asking everybody to fill out the form. I wouldn't be concerned about this if I were you. It's quite legitimate, and in no way involves you in any sort of difficulty. It merely proves your status as an IC. Sonsie sconroy@slonet.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 14:45:02 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Panic rising -- choosing terms Nick -- some good points. All -- To me, the question regarding the issue of using both terms, "Jews" and. "the Jews" in an index, becomes one of usability. To me, when I first read this posting, and subsequent ones, was "....What?! What distinction are you trying to make?" There is no diff between the two. In other words, not being familiar with the book, it seemed like an artificial distinction. It isn't obvious to the index user. Think about it from another point of view. Does this "artificial distinction" line of thinking make a difference in choosing terms for the index? I too try to stay within the vocabulary established by the author. However, as the indexer, the issue also needs to be considered from the point of the user of the index too. Where will the index user look for this information? How does he/she expect to look it up; where will he/she expect to find it? I don't know the answer for this book, but thought I'd introduce this line of thinking. I'd like to know what others think. If the vocabulary used by the author is not clear to somebody who hasn't used the book, if it is "non-standard", is a reason not to reflect it in the index, or does one choose those terms for the index anyway? Would better wording of the headings (with exlanatory qualifiers) or of the subheads solve the problem? Would x-refs help? Hmmmm.... Janet Perlman SOUTHWEST INDEXING ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 15:21:57 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Emily Barkin Subject: Re: Panic rising -- choosing terms I like the option of using the term "Jews" with explanatory qualifiers. It's a clear, practical, complete solution. JPerlman@AOL.COM on 05/12/99 02:45:02 PM Please respond to "Indexer's Discussion Group" To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L cc: (bcc: Emily Barkin/IT/VGI) Subject: Panic rising -- choosing terms Nick -- some good points. All -- To me, the question regarding the issue of using both terms, "Jews" and. "the Jews" in an index, becomes one of usability. To me, when I first read this posting, and subsequent ones, was "....What?! What distinction are you trying to make?" There is no diff between the two. In other words, not being familiar with the book, it seemed like an artificial distinction. It isn't obvious to the index user. Think about it from another point of view. Does this "artificial distinction" line of thinking make a difference in choosing terms for the index? I too try to stay within the vocabulary established by the author. However, as the indexer, the issue also needs to be considered from the point of the user of the index too. Where will the index user look for this information? How does he/she expect to look it up; where will he/she expect to find it? I don't know the answer for this book, but thought I'd introduce this line of thinking. I'd like to know what others think. If the vocabulary used by the author is not clear to somebody who hasn't used the book, if it is "non-standard", is a reason not to reflect it in the index, or does one choose those terms for the index anyway? Would better wording of the headings (with exlanatory qualifiers) or of the subheads solve the problem? Would x-refs help? Hmmmm.... Janet Perlman SOUTHWEST INDEXING ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 13:48:57 -0700 Reply-To: nkoenig Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: nkoenig Subject: Re: 'The' Jews At least where the King James version is concerned, 'the Jews' seems to refer to either, depending on context. In this regard it follows the Greek. For example, King James And the Jews' passover was at hand,..... Greek Kai eggus en to pascha ton (article) Ioudaion,..... (lit. and near was the passsover of the Jews) John II:13 Clearly, the reference is to a celebration of the Jewish people, not just their leaders. I am no biblical scholar, however, and certainly no expert on English translations. I just opened the book up, paged through it a bit, and my eyes fell on this phrase....... Nick Koenig >I would have thought 'the Jews' in English translations of the >Gospels generally means the contemporary religious leaders and >their associates, whereas 'Jews' means the Jewish people as a >whole. > >Regards > >_John Sampson_ > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 16:55:30 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael L. Olason" Subject: Re: Dragon Naturally Speaking Ann, My system memory resources were the first thing I checked when I started getting errors in Dragon. It really is my lazy mouth (grin), it only happens after I have been dictating for a number of hours. My husband didn't believe that my mouth can actually get tired (grin). Maybe I should try some voice strengthing exercises...just kidding. Dragon performs exceptionally for me...I am very pleased that Larry Edmundson told me about the product! Susan Olason ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 23:17:05 +0300 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Avital Pinnick Subject: Re: Panic rising -- choosing terms In-Reply-To: <199905121903.WAA61950@panda.mscc.huji.ac.il> I've been following this thread, although I didn't read the original posting carefully. I index *only* books dealing with Judaism (mostly Qumran, apocrypha and pseudepigrapha, although I also do rabbinic sources and all periods of Christianity). I have PhD from Harvard in 2nd Temple Jewish Literature/New Testament and I am completely baffled by the issues that have been raised. I have never run across a situation that required both "Jews, the" or "the Jews" in an index. Perhaps the original poster could clarify what he or she meant? Avital Dr. Avital Pinnick tel: 972-2-588-2063 Chief of Publications fax: 972-2-588-3584 Orion Center for the Study of the Dead Sea Scrolls, Hebrew University http://orion.mscc.huji.ac.il - DSS bibliography updated weekly ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 00:44:49 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marlene London Subject: e-mailing indexes - URGENT HELP!! I'm trying to e-mail an index saved in .rtf to my editor who is pulling it up in MS Word. While I've successfully done this in the past with a few other publishers, he never has and for some unknown reason cannot retrieve it. What could be the problem?? Marlene London Profindex@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 21:51:02 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: ASI credit card transactions For those of you who have recently charged ASI conference registrations, dues, or other transactions to a credit card, please note that your credit card statement may show the merchant for the transaction as either P.M.& R. (Bonnie Parks-Davies' business name) or as ASI/American Society of Indexers, depending on when the transaction was posted. Transactions posted thru mid-April will appear under the P.M.& R. name; more recent transactions (and any processed after this date) will appear under ASI's name. If you have questions about a particular transaction appearing under either merchant name, please contact the ASI Administrative Office directly at info@ASIndexing.org or 602/979-5514. Carolyn Weaver Treasurer, ASI cgweaver@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 23:14:18 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Advantage Media Solutions Subject: Re: e-mailing indexes - URGENT Marlene, Two things come to my mind right away: (1) Are you attempting to transfer the file in the content of the e-mail message or as an attached file? If it's the former, you should send it as an attached file. (2) What kind of e-mail software is he using? Is it stand-alone or Web based? I've heard that Web-based e-mail (e.g., hotmail, yahoo, etc.) often has difficulty in dealing with attached files. I hope this helps. If not, maybe you could give more information about the situation so that it's easier for us to troubleshoot. For instance, when you say that he can't retrieve it, do you mean that he's not receiving it or that he's saved it and is unsuccessfully trying to load it into MS Word? ----- Homer O. Ellison Advantage Media Solutions advms@mindspring.com http://www.advmediasol.com http://www.delphi.com/WriteForum The Write Forum -----Original Message----- From: Marlene London To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 9:51 PM Subject: e-mailing indexes - URGENT >HELP!! > >I'm trying to e-mail an index saved in .rtf to my editor who is pulling it >up in MS Word. While I've successfully done this in the past with a few >other publishers, he never has and for some unknown reason cannot retrieve >it. What could be the problem?? > >Marlene London >Profindex@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 16:04:59 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ralph REID Subject: Re: e-mailing indexes - URGENT Hi Marlene I think there is probably a loose screw on you editor's keyboard. Regards Ralph Reid -----Original Message----- From: Marlene London To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Thursday, 13 May 1999 2:46 PM Subject: e-mailing indexes - URGENT >HELP!! > >I'm trying to e-mail an index saved in .rtf to my editor who is pulling it >up in MS Word. While I've successfully done this in the past with a few >other publishers, he never has and for some unknown reason cannot retrieve >it. What could be the problem?? > >Marlene London >Profindex@worldnet.att.net > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 22:16:50 +0200 Reply-To: Louise Ferguson Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Louise Ferguson Subject: translating an index Do Mi Yes, it seems like a more nightmare-ish version of updating an index. A pity I can't check out that particular thread. I've only just joined the list, so I wasn't around when that thread was running, and the log doesn't go back that far. Louise ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 09:19:18 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Debra Lindblom Subject: Re: e-mailing indexes - URGENT In a message dated 5/12/99 11:47:09 PM EST, Profindex@WORLDNET.ATT.NET writes: << HELP!! I'm trying to e-mail an index saved in .rtf to my editor who is pulling it up in MS Word. While I've successfully done this in the past with a few other publishers, he never has and for some unknown reason cannot retrieve it. What could be the problem?? Marlene London Profindex@worldnet.att.net >> I had this happen one time. The editor was out-of-town and his assistant was trying to receive the index on the editor's MAC. She had me send it to her PC and it worked. I don't know if this was the problem or just that she was not familiar with MAC. Thought I would share the experience just in case it helps. Debbie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 20:49:37 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary Hunyadi Subject: database software Thanks so much to all who helped out with my dilemma. It turned out to be a case of merely getting to know my software better (thanks esp. to Sharon H.). This was my first foray into Index-L participation. Thanks for making it comfortable. Mary ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 09:46:12 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Healy Subject: Re[2]: e-mailing indexes - URGENT Marlene, The problem may be in the version of Word the editor is using. Word 97 handles .rtf fine, but earlier versions may have problems. See the Microsoft website for info on version and downloadable file to fix the problem. Susan Healy Fla. Legislature Division of Statutory Revision ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: e-mailing indexes - URGENT Author: Debra Lindblom at Internet Date: 5/13/99 9:19 AM In a message dated 5/12/99 11:47:09 PM EST, Profindex@WORLDNET.ATT.NET writes: << HELP!! I'm trying to e-mail an index saved in .rtf to my editor who is pulling it up in MS Word. While I've successfully done this in the past with a few other publishers, he never has and for some unknown reason cannot retrieve it. What could be the problem?? Marlene London Profindex@worldnet.att.net >> I had this happen one time. The editor was out-of-town and his assistant was trying to receive the index on the editor's MAC. She had me send it to her PC and it worked. I don't know if this was the problem or just that she was not familiar with MAC. Thought I would share the experience just in case it helps. Debbie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 09:56:54 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diane Brenner Subject: Re: e-mailing indexes - URGENT Try formatting it as a Word 6.0/Windows 95 document. Though this is the same as creating an rtf file, for some reason it seems to work better, sometimes. Diane Marlene London wrote: > HELP!! > > I'm trying to e-mail an index saved in .rtf to my editor who is pulling it > up in MS Word. While I've successfully done this in the past with a few > other publishers, he never has and for some unknown reason cannot retrieve > it. What could be the problem?? > > Marlene London > Profindex@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 06:57:00 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: e-mailing indexes - URGENT In-Reply-To: <199905130920.rjlkc9.1tl.37kbi16@mx8.mindspring.com> AOL has also been corrupting downloaded files for the last two weeks in some cases. Is your editor using AOL? At 09:19 AM 5/13/99 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 5/12/99 11:47:09 PM EST, Profindex@WORLDNET.ATT.NET writes: > ><< > HELP!! > > I'm trying to e-mail an index saved in .rtf to my editor who is pulling it > up in MS Word. While I've successfully done this in the past with a few > other publishers, he never has and for some unknown reason cannot retrieve > it. What could be the problem?? > > Marlene London > Profindex@worldnet.att.net > > >> >I had this happen one time. The editor was out-of-town and his assistant was >trying to receive the index on the editor's MAC. She had me send it to her PC >and it worked. I don't know if this was the problem or just that she was not >familiar with MAC. Thought I would share the experience just in case it helps. > >Debbie =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Wright Information Indexing Services http://www.wrightinformation.com Jancw@wrightinformation.com =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 12:00:50 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Debra Graf Subject: Re: e-mailing indexes - URGENT Marlene, In addition to all the other suggestions you've received, you might want to make sure the editor is trying to open the document as an RTF file, and not as a MS Word document... Debbie Graf ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 09:18:24 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Field Subject: Re: e-mailing indexes - URGENT Marlene wrote: >HELP!! > >I'm trying to e-mail an index saved in .rtf to my editor who is pulling it >up in MS Word. While I've successfully done this in the past with a few >other publishers, he never has and for some unknown reason cannot retrieve >it. What could be the problem?? > >Marlene London >Profindex@worldnet.att.net Hi, Marlene. I've had this problem with freelance clients, too. Ask him to save the attached file (assuming it's an attached file) to his hard drive and close your email message. Then have him open Word, and go to the File menu and choose Open. He can then use the dialog box that opens to locate the file. Make sure he uses the Files ot Type field in the dialog box to look for *all files*. That way he'll be able to see an .rtf file. Word should be able to read it once he finds it. Hope this is helpful. Karen Field Technical Writer, Editor, and Indexer ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 11:52:47 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael L. Olason" Subject: Re: Emailing Indexes-Urgent Marlene, I had a similar problem at the beginning of this year. I had been able to email indexes as RTF and Word with NO problems. Then I started having problems emailing to the some of the same clients. You might want to ask your client if they have changed their Internet software. It turns out that I was using an older version of Netscape that didn't work with the client's new Internet software. Once I upgraded Netscape, I no longer had a problem. Susan Olason ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 12:10:03 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: e-mailing indexes - URGENT On 5/12/1999 11:44 PM Marlene London wrote (in part): >I'm trying to e-mail an index saved in .rtf to my editor who is pulling it >up in MS Word. While I've successfully done this in the past with a few >other publishers, he never has and for some unknown reason cannot retrieve >it. What could be the problem?? Kind of interesting that nobody has mentioned the encoding mode for transmission. My e-mail software allows me to choose among BinHex, Base64, and UUEncode. If yours or your editor's also allows a choice that can make a difference. Craig Brown ===================================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing http://www.i1.net/~lastword (314)352-9094 fax: (314)481-9254 ===================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 15:31:09 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: URGENT--homeowners/business insurance Hi everybody--my partner and I now own the house we've been renting from her parents for eight years. We're working on getting homeowner's insurance, something that neither of us has done before. The agent is coming this afternoon, and I just realized that I didn't even think about my business. Is it going to be a problem that I'm running a business?? Should I be downplaying it? Is covering my business property (computers, mostly) an option or a requirement? I know we had a whole discussion on here last year, didn't pay attention because I didn't know we were going to become homeowners...If someone can fill me in on this stuff in the next couple of hours, I would really appreciate it. It's 12:30 West coast time and he's coming at 4:00; I'd like to have some idea of what I'm talking about by then. Thank you in advance, collective wisdom!!!! Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 15:44:42 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: URGENT--homeowners/business insurance Do Mi, Our agent is well aware of my home office. Not a problem, at all. Get replacement value insurance for the homeowners ins. Best way to go. Keeps you on a par with inflation. Re coverage for computer equipment -- I have a special policy, with the same agent, to cover the office equipment and reference library (think of it .... those books can get expensive, if you had to replace all of them). For that, I select the value of insurance I want, by the thousand dollars, and the premium is adjusted accordingly. Coverage is for something like $12,000 (approx), and premium runs somewhere around $200 a year. I feel good about it. It doesn't cover damages to data if that should occur -- ie, damage to your business life in case of a fire. It would simply replace the equipment. I feel better having it. Coverage is for the cost of main computer, back-up, laptop if you have one, printer(s), scanner(s), fax, phone, furniture, books, -- a full office). Hope this helps. Janet Janet Perlman SOUTHWEST INDEXING ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 12:45:04 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: URGENT--homeowners/business insurance In-Reply-To: <199905131533.rjma8k.2js.37kbi14@mx6.mindspring.com> Make sure you tell him that no clients come to your house. That little idea makes your rates much higher, and you need to be clear with him that you work entirely over the phone and the internet. You may not be able to get coverage through him for the computer system you use, and may want to consider separate coverage for all your computer stuff for the business. Let the business pay for it. Safeware is one company that does nothing but insure computers, and they are pretty cheap. Congrats on owning at last!!!! Jan Wright At 03:31 PM 5/13/99 -0400, you wrote: >Hi everybody--my partner and I now own the house we've been renting from her >parents for eight years. We're working on getting homeowner's insurance, >something that neither of us has done before. The agent is coming this >afternoon, and I just realized that I didn't even think about my business. Is >it going to be a problem that I'm running a business?? Should I be >downplaying it? Is covering my business property (computers, mostly) an >option or a requirement? I know we had a whole discussion on here last year, >didn't pay attention because I didn't know we were going to become >homeowners...If someone can fill me in on this stuff in the next couple of >hours, I would really appreciate it. It's 12:30 West coast time and he's >coming at 4:00; I'd like to have some idea of what I'm talking about by then. >Thank you in advance, collective wisdom!!!! > >Do Mi =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Wright Information Indexing Services http://www.wrightinformation.com Jancw@wrightinformation.com =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 15:51:34 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: URGENT--homeowners/business insurance Do Mi, Yes, Jan is right when she said: << Make sure you tell him that no clients come to your house. That little idea makes your rates much higher, and you need to be clear with him that you work entirely over the phone and the internet. >> Make this clear, or else he/she will want you to have liability coverage as well (in case a client trips on your rug, or on a crack in the driveway, etc) -- and there's no need to pay for that. That can get expensive and it is unnecessary. Thanks Jan! Janet Janet Perlman SOUTHWEST INDEXING ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 12:57:56 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: URGENT--homeowners/business insurance Dear Do Mi, Congratulations on becoming a homeowner! My insurance agent is aware that I also have my own business out of my home and it has never been a problem. I believe that the problem would be if you had employees running in and out all of the time. Your homeowner's policy will not cover any business liabilities (I am aware that some indexers do have business liability coverage but I personally do not). Regarding your computer equipment: I'm not positive about this but I believe that your equipment is covered up to whatever amount your insurance would cover if the equipment was for personal use only (that amount would vary according to your particular policy coverage). Also, the homeowner's policy wouldn't cover you for any business losses (i.e. loss of income if the house burns down) but would cover you should (heaven forbid!) the Federal Express person fall and suffer an injury while making a delivery to your home/business. There are insurance riders available which will give you higher coverage of your computer equipment (the same kind of riders are available for extra coverage of jewelry etc.). But I wouldn't be worried about the fact that you have a home based business. You don't need have to downplay it or make a big deal about it. The insurance company is only concerned with losses which they might have to cover (i.e. employee injuries, liabilities etc.). And those issues shouldn't impact your situation at all. Good luck, and again, congratulations! Best, Sylvia Coates DStaub11@AOL.COM wrote: > Hi everybody--my partner and I now own the house we've been renting from her > parents for eight years. We're working on getting homeowner's insurance, > something that neither of us has done before. The agent is coming this > afternoon, and I just realized that I didn't even think about my business. Is > it going to be a problem that I'm running a business?? Should I be > downplaying it? Is covering my business property (computers, mostly) an > option or a requirement? I know we had a whole discussion on here last year, > didn't pay attention because I didn't know we were going to become > homeowners...If someone can fill me in on this stuff in the next couple of > hours, I would really appreciate it. It's 12:30 West coast time and he's > coming at 4:00; I'd like to have some idea of what I'm talking about by then. > Thank you in advance, collective wisdom!!!! > > Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 13:02:18 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: URGENT--homeowners/business insurance A home owner's policy always includes liability coverage for delivery people, visitors, salespeople etc. You can also request a million dollar umbrella policy (which we have) but the standard liability coverage of the home owner's policy should be sufficient unless you have to protect a large amount of assets. Best, Sylvia Coates JPerlman@AOL.COM wrote: > Do Mi, > > Yes, Jan is right when she said: << Make sure you tell him that no clients > come to your house. That little idea makes your rates much higher, and you > need to be clear with him that you work entirely over the phone and the > internet. >> > > Make this clear, or else he/she will want you to have liability coverage as > well (in case a client trips on your rug, or on a crack in the driveway, etc) > -- and there's no need to pay for that. That can get expensive and it is > unnecessary. > > Thanks Jan! > Janet > > Janet Perlman > SOUTHWEST INDEXING ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 14:59:24 -0500 Reply-To: jltw@earthlink.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julia Land Organization: JLTW Subject: Re: URGENT--homeowners/business insurance Do Mi asked about homeowners insurance. Among other questions was this: > Is covering my business property (computers, mostly) an > option or a requirement? You need to ask the agent if business equipment in your house would be covered under the contents provisions. It really depends on the insurance policy. If not, if you don't get coverage for them, and if the house burns down, the equipment won't be covered and you will be out of pocket for their entire replacement cost. Even if business equipment is covered, many homeowners insurance policies have minimal coverage for electronic equipment (like $1000 or $2000 maximum) and riders for people who have more valuable equipment. I would definitely ask the agent how much would be covered as part of the contents coverage and ask for a quote on a rider. Then you can decide if the insurance is worth it to you. (For example, if you figure the equipment is worth $3000 and the rider to get the coverage for the full value is $500 a year, you will probably decide that extra coverage is not required in your case.) One last issue is replacement cost vs current value. At the rate electronic devices depreciate, you probably want replacement cost if you decide to cover the equipment. Congratulations on your new homeownership! Julia ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 16:02:08 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kathy L. Johnson" Subject: Re: URGENT--homeowners/business insurance Concerning liability coverage...my insurance company suggested I get that in case UPS or FedEX deliverer slips on my doorstep. Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 21:25:41 +0100 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Re: RTF In-Reply-To: I have noticed that RTF output from Word is different from RTF output from Cindex. If I found that an RTF file from Cindex was causing trouble, I would load it into Word, then do a 'save as' to produce a new RTF file with a different name. I have no experience of doing this but it might be worth trying. I once tried to hand-edit an RTF file, then loaded it into Word, which caused one of the most spectacular crashes I have had so far. It is tricky. Regards _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 16:36:29 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group