Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1993 14:25:32 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cammie Donaldson Subject: Electronic Interchange of Thesauri ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- <<>> I am designing a thesaurus construction and maintenance toolkit to be implemented for Unix (and hopefully DOS/Windows/Macintosh) workstations. Some of the capabilities will include the following: Storage and multi-user access to multiple thesauri Thesaurus editing/browsing through multiple views (e.g., hierarchical, alpha listing, subject heading, etc.) Automatic loading of existing thesauri into editor/browser Automatic loading of terms into thesaurus from existing database/index Export of thesaurus terms into other database/index formats plus stuff for automatic indexing plus stuff for assisting the search process Many hundreds of thesauri have been published and presumably at least some of them were developed on a computer. In order to move the thesauri from one software application to another, there should be some standard convention for indicating term relationships, scope notes, etc., so that these can be recreated upon loading/importing. This format would apply both to ASCII files or messages sent from one application to the other. FIRST QUESTION: Are there any standard or de facto standard formats for electronic exchange of thesaurus information? SECOND QUESTION: Would support for typical database import formats (e.g., comma separated text, tab separated text, SYLK) be adequate for most users seeking to load thesaurus automatically or conversely, load a database from a thesaurus? THIRD QUESTION: Are there any standard or de facto standard formats for electronic exchange of database indexes? In anticipation of your answer, I thank you for your time. Any requirements that you would like to levy on thesaurus tools will be welcome, by the way, and if I get enough assistance I will be happy to share the developed software with you. Cammie Donaldson cmd@sps.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1993 16:20:35 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Kwasnik Subject: Electronic Interchange of Thesauri In-Reply-To: Your MAIL dated Tue, 22 Jun 1993 14:25:32 ECT ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- To Cammie Donaldson: The Art and Architecture Thesaurus was developed with an online version in mind and they, I think, developed conventions for marking the facets and hierarchies that comprise the structure.I don't know about communications standards, etc. One person to contact for info on AA&T is Joseph Busch. He can direct you to the right person if he is not the one. joseph@ vaneyck.portal.com Another person to contact is Susanne Humphrey at the National Library of Medicine (humphrey@mcs.nlm.nih.gov) who works with MeSH (Medical Subject Headings) and designs knowledge-based indexing aids. Hope this helps, and good luck. B.K. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1993 09:08:26 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Philip E. Kaveny" Subject: PAPER FOR LIS 817 UW MADISON HI I am finishing up a MLS at University of Wisconsin Madison this summer and taking a course in indexing. I will be doing a paper on the precursors of indexing as we know it I find myself fascinated by the concept of indexing and access as part of a socio-economic and historical processs, does anyone have any good articles to suggest. I am particulary interested in 18th and 19th centuries. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1993 14:42:57 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kate McCain Subject: Re: PAPER FOR LIS 817 UW MADISON In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 23 Jun 1993 09:08:26 ECT from ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- With respect to suggestions on the "precursors of indexing" -- check out Jessica Milstead's book _Subject Access Systems_. It has an excellent historical overview and lots of references. Kate McCain "bibliometrics R us" College of Information Studies Drexel University mccainkw@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1993 14:43:24 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Robert Lee Hadden, US Geological Survey Library" Subject: Re: PAPER FOR LIS 817 UW MADISON ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- James Burke did a wonderful TV series called "The Day the Universe Changed", dealing with changes in science and technology. He did a particularly excellent segment on infomration, including the passing on of information in an illiterate society, and how people remembered over time. Check to see if it is available in your library as a video- you will enjoy that segment (and most likely the others in the series. I can also recommend the one on maps and directions, but this is a diversion...). He also has the themes outlined in his book, but in this case, as I remember, the video series was better. No one beats James Burke in explaining complex subjects, and then explaining (interpreting) how a change in one area leads to changes in another area. Add to that his sense of humor and whimsy, and I thought it the best science series I have seen. lee hadden usgs library HI I am finishing up a MLS at University of Wisconsin Madison this summer and taking a course in indexing. I will be doing a paper on the precursors of indexing as we know it I find myself fascinated by the concept of indexing and access as part of a socio-economic and historical processs, does anyone have any good articles to suggest. I am particulary interested in 18th and 19th centuries. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1993 10:53:11 ECT Reply-To: Michael Kalen Smith Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Kalen Smith Subject: Re: xxin? ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >One of the sections in the book I am indexing is the introduction, whose >page numbers are lowercase roman numerals. Whenever I came across a footnote >whose content was worth indexing, I would add an n to its locator, as is >normally done with arabic page numbers. Thus I ended up with numbers >such as xiin, xln, etc. Now, when I showed a draft of my index to >the editor I work for, he objected that this little n added to roman numerals >was weird-looking, though it was obviously ok to append it to arabic >numbers. He thus suggested to drop those little n's and to index the content >of the footnotes in the intro just by the page numbers. > >Andre De Tienne >Peirce Edition Project, IUPUI >ADETIENN@INDYCMS I can't say I've ever done a book where the Introd had content notes! I do a lot of copyediting, too, and I think the c.e. on THIS project should have raised a question.... As a suggestion, you might consider replacing the "n" with the word "note" (maybe in italics) ... either for the whole ms. or just for the Introd if this thing has zillions of notes. Using "note" is the older form of reference, anyway, and one must sometimes make up the rules as one goes along (also known as the "Indiana Jones" method of indexing). Mike ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michael Kalen Smith / Dallas, TX Internet: mksmith@taproot.win.net / CompuServe: 73177,366 *** It doesn't TAKE all kinds; we just HAVE all kinds *** ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1993 10:53:34 ECT Reply-To: Michael Kalen Smith Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Kalen Smith Subject: Re: Indexing 10 volumes of a journal -- pricing suggestions requested ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >I have been asked to index a 10 volumes of a journal (4 issues per volume; >about 110 pages per issue; 5-7 articles per issue and book reviews). >I've been asked to submit a "bid." What would all you experts out there >bid and why? Should I base on pages (1100 approx)? on volumes? on issues? >What is standard? How about a range say .50 per page to a $1.00 per page? >What do ther publishers pay as a going rate? What's the least amount you'd >accept? > >Hannah King >SUNY HSC Library at Syracuse Way back in 1982, I got talked into indexing the first 12 yrs of TERRAE INCOGNITAE (the journal of the Society for the History of Discovery, of which I am a member), about 100pp/vol, and much the same kind of mix you describe. This was also pre-CINDEX for me, and it took a loooooong time.... The biggest problem I ran into was the lack of continuity; doing 60-odd articles on assorted (even if related) topics + book reviews is definitely NOT like indexing a large book! I also had to search out birth/death dates for persons discussed (added in parentheses in the main entries) and occasionally identify someone ("mapmaker"), and similar extracurricular work. This was rather early in my indexing career and I wasn't yet charging very much, but it was also good experience and I still send out copies of the final product as a sample of my work. If I were bidding on such a job now, I believe I would expect about 1.5 times my usual rate (I charge per page of indexable matter, for convenience; it evens out) because of all the extra work I now know would be involved. Mike (Sorry to be so long in replying, BTW. I got burgled & de-computered, and it's taken me a month to replace my setup and get back online.) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michael Kalen Smith / Dallas, TX Internet: mksmith@taproot.win.net / CompuServe: 73177,366 *** It doesn't TAKE all kinds; we just HAVE all kinds *** ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ =========================================================================