Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 16:55:36 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ronald Russ Subject: Indexing software ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I was at a conference session at ALA Annual Conference this year which discussed how to get started in indexing, the keynote speaker was Linda Fetters, the President of the American Society of Indexers. She mentioned several different software packages one I think was Empsort (I don't know if the spelling is correct) and Cyndex (or maybe it's Cindex). Any my experience in indexing is minimal and has been done fully manually, from selecting the paraphrases, to arranging the subjects on index cards, etc. What do these software programs do? Do they automate everything? How much control does the indexer have in selecting terms? Also, are there any good reference sources or publications that would help to explain this more fully. Also, do you need to use a service like OCLC in this process (I was told by a colleague that when they were indexing, they used their services). I know this is a lot to ask, but any information would be grately appreciated. -Ron Russ Brooklyn Public Library rruss@panix.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 16:56:19 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nancy Kaiser Subject: Help--ALF ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Hi everyone, I'm new to this list stuff so please bear with me. I have just received my indexing course materials and included with is was a booklet about access to ALF, Agricultural Library Forum--an electronic bulletin board for indexing students. I do not have a modem is there access to this through the internet? Any help is greatly appreciated. ********************************************************************* * * * Nancy Kaiser voice (315) 792-7307 * * SUNY Institute of Technology fax (315) 792-7517 * * Utica, NY 13504 * * snak@sunyit.edu * ********************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 16:56:49 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Nancy C. Mulvany" Subject: Good Reading ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- BYTE, September 1993 "Documentation Goes Digital" by Philip C. Murray, 121-129 This is an excellent article about electronic reference document (ERD) design. Murray provides an overview of the software tools and design issues. He also discusses INDEXES for ERDs; real indexes! Here's a quote: Keeping what's good about printed books in your ERDs seems like a logical thing to do, but sometimes the wrong things are kept and the right things are discarded. Ironically, chief among the often-discarded features is the most frequently used method of information access in books: the back-of-the-book, or "conceptual," index. Full-text searching is not an adequate replacement for indexes in electronic documents, as studies of the effectiveness of searching have shown. ... In an ERD that supports hypertext links, a conceptual index can provide direct access to all significant ideas in the document from any point in the document, not just the names of things that can be found easily by search features. ... Murray demonstrates that he knows the difference between a conceptual index and a string-searching algorithm. Both retrieval devices have their place in ERDs, which is discussed in the article. All too often, search engines get coverage in the press while conceptual indexes go unmentioned. This tendency is apparent even in this article. A sidebar article, "Finding Text Fast," by Peter Wayner discusses automated text-indexing software. Word-level and file-level indexing schemes are discussed as well as binary-tree structures, hashing functions, and fuzzy searches. I commend Murray for discussing the critical need for conceptual indexes in ERDs. However, the article discusses much more than indexes. The primary focus of the article is the electronic document production process and the tools available. Many real-world examples of ERDs are provided. Anyone interested in the design and preparation of electronic documents will find this article valuable. Nancy Mulvany nmulvany@well.sf.ca.us ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 16:57:46 ECT Reply-To: Michael Kalen Smith Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Kalen Smith Subject: Re: author-invented terms ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >What do ya do when the author invents a term to use in place of an >alternative, commonly used term, and the invented term is one NO ONE would >think of looking under? >Do y'all agree that I'll have to do it this way: > >benevolence. _See_ nonjustice obligations >nonjustice obligations > >I would love to hear about others' experiences with author-invented terms. > >Carol Roberts >Ithaca, NY >rw16@cornell.edu Yeah, that's exactly what I would do/have done. At least 80% of my jobs are for academic presses and I get to wade through a lot of jargon -- "standard" and author-original -- in philosophy, sociology, urban studies, political science, economics, etc. You have an obligation to use the term the author uses (however bizarre it might be), but you also have an obligation to the reader, to lead him to that term. Mike ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michael Kalen Smith / Dallas, TX Internet: mksmith@taproot.win.net / CompuServe: 73177,366 *** It doesn't TAKE all kinds; we just HAVE all kinds *** ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 16:58:36 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Re: author-invented terms In-Reply-To: <9308241320.AA22382@carson.u.washington.edu> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- My personal feeling is that the primary goal of an index is to facilitate access by its USERS - not to massage the author's ego. If the author's preferred word is unique to him, I would use the term the USER will be seeking, with a cross-reference from the author's coined term. A call to the author (or the editor if you are working for a publisher rather than the author directly) seems to be in order to explain your reasoning for the choice of terms. You need to make your professional opinion clear on the subject, even if you are forced by the person who is paying the bill to go with the less satisfactory choice. Carolyn G. Weaver Seattle, Wa. cweaver@u.washington.edu phone: 206/930/4348 On Tue, 24 Aug 1993, bob wallace wrote: > ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > Well I must be working on another philosophy index, because I have another > question for y'all. > > What do ya do when the author invents a term to use in place of an > alternative, commonly used term, and the invented term is one NO ONE would > think of looking under? In this book, the author prefers the term > "nonjustice obligations" to "benevolence" (let's assume he has his > reasons). The whole book is about obligations, so I'd really have to list > this under nonjustice. Ugh! But to list it under benevolence with a cross > reference from nonjustice obligations would go against the author's wish to > use this term. I sure wish he hadn't picked a "non" word. Do y'all agree > that I'll have to do it this way: > > benevolence. _See_ nonjustice obligations > nonjustice obligations > > I would love to hear about others' experiences with author-invented terms. > > Carol Roberts > Ithaca, NY > rw16@cornell.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 08:57:56 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: King Co Lib System Subject: Re: Indexing software In-Reply-To: <9308302058.AA24991@rs6a.wln.com> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I've been a free-lance indexer for some twenty years and began using a computer for this about 12 years ago. For the last five years I've been using Cindex. I've also taught several courses on computer indexing software packages for the University of Chicago Continuing Ed Department. Following are my thoughts on the subject and some answers for your questions. Indexing software ranges in price and complexity from less than $100 to $600+. The best programs mimic the way a professional indexer works and are very flexible. Desirable features include easy retrievability of previously entered terms (to avoid re-keying and to maintain flexibility); the ability to "flip" entries, i.e., invert to enter under another heading; lots of control over output - into various word processing programs or for electronic submission with type-setting codes embedded; speed of sorting; adherence to the University of Chicago Style manual. None of the dozen or so programs that I have evaluated require access to some other database such as OCLC (a somewhat strange idea!). All of them let you enter your own terms. The built-in indexing features of some word processors are not, to my mind, a workable alternative for a professional indexer. I feel the best program available at this time is Cindex. Fetter's "A Guide to Indexing Software," published by the American Society of Indexers, if still available does give basic comaparative features - didn't she mention it? Oh, total size limitations can be an important feature if you are creating large indexes. And flexibility of page references (if doing something other than straight book pages - like magazine issues, etc.) is another. If there is other information I can add, let me know. Charles Anderson 1111 110th Ave. SE Bellevue, Wa 98004 206-450-1789 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 08:58:31 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jessica Milstead <76440.2356@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Indexing software ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Ron Russ -- I suggest you contact the American Society of Indexers (whose administrative contact happens to be Linda Fetters) to get a copy of Linda's book, Guide to Indexing Software, where practically every currently available package is described and evaluated. ASI is reachable via The Well: asi@well.sf.ca.us. On your specific questions: 1. Software of this type automates *clerical* tasks only. 2. The indexer has full control over term selection; this is intellectual. 3. For a reference source, see Linda's work above. 4. OCLC has nothing to do with the process of indexing in this sense. Your colleague probably used OCLC for cataloging. Good luck! Jessica Milstead 76440.2356@compuserve.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 09:03:59 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: King Co Lib System Subject: Re: Indexing software In-Reply-To: <9308302058.AA24991@rs6a.wln.com> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- One additional comment to my earlier missive: One of the major indexes I do each year used to take me 400 hours manually. I now do that index in about 48 hours on a computer. This should answer your question about the advantage of computer indexing. Charles Anderson ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 09:04:34 ECT Reply-To: Michael Kalen Smith Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Kalen Smith Subject: Re: Indexing software ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >if the spelling is correct) and Cyndex (or maybe it's Cindex). Any my >experience in indexing is minimal and has been done fully manually, from >selecting the paraphrases, to arranging the subjects on index cards, etc. >What do these software programs do? Do they automate everything? How >much control does the indexer have in selecting terms? PERSONAL OPINION ===> I've been using CINDEX since Linda & Co. demo-ed it at a workshop a UTX a number of years ago. It's gone through several major revisions now and I wouldn't attempt to get out the volume of work I do with any other program. I regard CINDEX as the indexing equivalent of WordPerfect: The most configurable, maleable software on the market. You can do virtually *anything* with it, and you have *complete* control. What it automates is all the 'mechanical' stuff; you still have to supply all the creative thinking. There's a learning curve, but when I first began using it I was able to do three indexes in the same amount of time in which I had done the previous two ... which paid for the program. >-Ron Russ >Brooklyn Public Library >rruss@panix.com Mike ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michael Kalen Smith / Dallas, TX Internet: mksmith@taproot.win.net / CompuServe: 73177,366 *** It doesn't TAKE all kinds; we just HAVE all kinds *** ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 09:06:07 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Robert Lee Hadden, US Geological Survey Library" Subject: Re: Help--ALF ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I'm not aware of the agricultural forum, either. However, I am interested in your indexing course. Is this from an university, or is it a special correspondence course? lee hadden usgs library ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Hi everyone, I'm new to this list stuff so please bear with me. I have just received my indexing course materials and included with is was a booklet about access to ALF, Agricultural Library Forum--an electronic bulletin board for indexing students. I do not have a modem is there access to this through the internet? Any help is greatly appreciated. ********************************************************************* * * * Nancy Kaiser voice (315) 792-7307 * * SUNY Institute of Technology fax (315) 792-7517 * * Utica, NY 13504 * * snak@sunyit.edu * ********************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 09:42:36 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Subject: FAQ Moderators note: Given the recent questions about software and the correspondence course..it looks like a good time for this. In the future I will post this on the last day of each month. Since many of you will not want to read the FAQ every time it is posted, I will let you know if anything new is included...nothing new this time. Charlotte INDEX-L FAQ BOOKS ON INDEXING? Knight, G. N. Indexing, The Art Of. Allen & Unwin, 1979. Lancaster, F. W. Indexing and Abstracting in Theory and Practice. U of Illinois Press, 1991. Lancaster, F. W. Vocabulary Control for Information Retrieval, 2nd ed. Information resources Press, 1986 Wellisch, H. Indexing and Abstracting, an International Bibliography ABC-Clio, 1980. Wellisch, H. Indexing from A to Z. H. W. Wilson, 1991. WHAT HAS BEEN WRITTEN ABOUT AUTOMATIC INDEXING? Books: Salton and McGill Introduction to Modern Information Retrieval Salton, Automatic Text Processing Van Rijsbergen Information Retrieval Jones, Karen Spark Information Retrieval Experiment Papers: Bell, C. and Jones, K. "Back-of-the-book Indexing: A Case for the Application of Artificial Intelligence", Informatics 5, ASLIB Pub., pp. 155-161, 1979 Bennion, B. "Performance Testing of a Book and its Index as an Information Retrieval System", JASIS, pp. 265-270, July 1970 Borko, H. "Experiments in Book Indexing by Computer" Information Storage and Retrieval, 6:5)16, 1970 Dillon, M. and McDonald, J. "Fully Automatic Book Indexing" Journal of Documentation 39(1):135-154, 1983 Dion, M. Thesaurus-Based Automatic Book Indexing", Information Processing and Management, 81(4):167-178, 1982 Salton, G. "Syntactic Approaches to Automatic Book Indexing", Proceedings of the 26th ACL, pp. 204-210, 1988 WHAT SOFTWARE DO INDEXERS USE? (All of these are for DOS machines...no Macs) IN>SORT Kensa Software P.O. Box 4415 Northbrook, IL 60065 (708) 559-0297 Macrex Bayside Indexing Service P.O. Box 3051 Daly City, CA 95015-0051 (415) 524-4195 FAX: (415) 757-1567 Cindex Indexing Research Box 18609 Rochester, New York 14618-0609 (716) 461-5530 FAX: (716) 442-3924 COURSES OR TRAINING FOR INDEXERS (OUTSIDE OF LIBRARY SCHOOLS)? Graduate School of the USDA Correspondence Programs Room 1114, South Agriculture Building 14th St. and Independence Ave. SW Washington, DC 20250 (202) 720-7131 Tuition: $269.00 (includes all materials) PROFESSIONAL SOCIETIES/ORGANIZATIONS FOR INDEXERS? (this question was not actually asked..but here's the answer anyway) American Society of Indexers (ASI) P.O. Box 386 Port Aransas TX 78373 (512) 749)4052 FAX: (512) 749-4052 Indexing and Abstracting Society of Canada Box 744 Station F Toronto Ontario Canada M4Y 2N6 National Federation of Abstracting and Information Services (NFAIS) 1429 Walnut Street Philadelphia PA 19102 (215) 563)2406 FAX: (215) 563-2848 Society of Indexers (SI) 16 Green Road Birchington, England CT79JZ Australian Society of Indexers (AusSI) GPO Box 1251L, Melbourne Victoria 3001, Australia