========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 08:52:56 PST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Fatemi Subject: Re: INDEX-L Digest - 6 Feb 1995 to 7 Feb 1995 Re: MLS and indexing Sorry if this is too late for your inquiry. I've just been catching up. I have an MLIS and have been cataloguing one way or another since I finished library school. I have recently, the last year or so, been required to learn indexing. ( I posted a help query, because our indexing is largely to periodical articles / abstracts) Susan Fatemi EERC Library susanf@eerc.berkeley.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 11:28:33 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Maryann Corbett Subject: Twin Cities ASI, March meeting Announcing the March meeting of the Twin Cities Chapter of the American Society of Indexers--a JOINT MEETING with ASIS and SLA! Access to Minnesota Legislative Information: Intellectual and Internet Approaches sponsored by Minnesota Chapters of American Society of Indexers American Society for Information Science Special Libraries Association March 8, 1995 Lido Italian Ristorante 2801 North Snelling Avenue (just south of County Road C and Snelling) 5:15 - 5:45 -- Registration/Networking/Cash Bar 5:45 - 6:45 -- Dinner Baked Rigatoni with Red Sauce topped with meatballs or Tortellini Primavera All'Arrabiata, cheese filled wheat pasta in meatless marinara sauce with fresh vegetables Served with salad, Italian bread, biscotti and beverages; including coffee, tea, milk or soft drink 6:45 - 8:30 -- Announcements/Program Presenters: Maryann Corbett, Language Specialist, Office of the Revisor of Statutes Wendy Nelson, Data Systems User Service Manager, Office of the Revisor of Statutes Marion Matters, Head of Technical Services, Legislative Reference Library - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Send PREPAID (check payable to ASIS Minnesota Chapter) registrations for receipt by March 1 to: Chris Portoghese 3M Information Technology 3M Center Building 224-3E-17 St. Paul, MN 55144 Name _______________________________________ phone ___________________ Organization __________________________________________________________ Membership/s - ASI ______ ASIS ______ SLA ______ Guest ______ Check Meal Choice: Baked Rigatoni _____ Tortellini _____ Check Affiliation/Payment: _____ $17.00 Member ASI/ASIS/SLA _____ $12.00 Students who are members of ASI/ASIS/SLA paying with personal check; indicate college of enrollment: ___________________________________ _____ $19.00 Guest Janet M. Arth Bio-Medical Library 301 Diehl Hall Internet: arth@maroon.tc.umn.edu University of Minnesota Phone (no voice mail):612/626-5454 Minneapolis, MN 55455 Fax: 612/626-2454 ASI members with questions, call Maryann Corbett, 612-297-2952 612-645-5985, home or e-mail: maryann.corbett@revisor.leg.state.mn.us ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 16:00:23 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Mrs. Julie Knoeller" Subject: for the list owner, please Charlotte (I presume), I am trying to signoff index-l and apparently I subscribed some time ago, at which time I was operating under a different address. The index-l mail has been forwarded to my current address. The problem is, I don't have a clue how to get myself off from this end, so if you could manually remove me, I would GREATLY appreciate it. I will miss you all, and I have enjoyed and been edified immensely by the exchanges here. I hope I can resubscribe when I'm hooked to cyberspace once again. Thanks a lot, julie knoeller cf185@pandora.cray.com PS. my old account MIGHT have been: cf185@mayberry.cray.com. Tomorrow (Friday the 10th) is my last day online, but my account will probably linger for a while till the local sysadmin decides to remove it. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 21:38:13 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey Subject: Re: Library thesauri Peter Meyer wrote: >So, to provide a consistent and comprehensive interface to the firm's legal >resources, it is necessary to have a subject thesaurus for the library >which covers internal documents (eg, the firm's standard form documents & >opinions), electronic publications and the physical book collection. So far >this should be relatively straight forward. > >The difficult part in my experience is in the actual interface for a >subject search. Most systems require the searcher to enter a proposed >search term into a field on screen. If the searcher knows the terms as used >in the thesarus, the user immediately gets the hits he or she is after. If >not, the software will hopefully direct the searcher to the correct term >with references to other terms or narrower terms. ...[Omitted]... >I have been experimenting on a small scale with hierarchical displays of >subject terms so that the users can immediately see which terms *are* >there, rather than to speculate about what might be there. So far, it has >been very successful in practise. I have been using the Macintosh Finder to >provide a hiearchical display of electronic resources in folders on a >remote server. There are obvious limitations with the use of the Macintosh >Finder as the interfact for a library, the most obvious being that it does >not deal with the physical collection. ...[Omitted]...> >1. Has anyone had experience with graphical displays of subject terms in a >hierarchy and if so, can it work at the necessary scale? Not directly, but there are programming language debugging utilities that do that: they break down the internal structure of a modular program into a tree of subroutines and sub-sub routines using recognised programming syntax. I don't know whether any of them would be adaptable to your requirements, but they might be worth a look. > >2. A hierarchical display only contains the terms actaually used in the >catalogue. There is no place for synonyms. Should one abandon them >altogether or leave the traditional text entry field interface for those >who don't wish to use the graphical display? My experience is that the more ways there are to do something, the fewer complaints you are likely to get. I would advocate keeping a 'traditional' search interface if it can be done relatively cheaply. As a combination of the two approaches, what about entering a search term that takes you to a graphic display of the appropriate level in the hierarchy? > >3. Are there any problems with using the same term in different >hierarchies? My perference would be to generally try to avoid this but it >is not always convenient. > I don't see why. As long as they are under different headings there shouldn't be any confusion between 'Teaching Aids' and 'AIDS', for instance. Jonathan Jonathan Jermey & Glenda Browne Blaxland NSW (047) 398-199 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 11:07:45 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Alison Chipman Subject: Travel request to Waltham March 4 Dear Fellow Mass. ASI Members, I hope this is not an inappropriate posting to the listserve. Please send any reponses to my own e-mail address given below. I live in Williamstown, Mass., and hope to attend the Massachusetts Society of Indexers meeting in Waltham, Saturday, March 4. However, I don't drive, and the bus lines that operate out of Williamstown do not stop in Waltham. If anyone from my area, or passing through it on their way, is going to the meeting, please could they contact me re exchanging a seat in their motor vehicle in exchange for a contribution towards gas expenses? I neither smoke, spit, chew gum, nor sing in cars, and am entirely willing, nay eager, to wear a seatbelt. Thanks for reading. Sincerely, Alison Chipman achipman@aat.getty.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 15:16:49 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Da Gertz Subject: Macrex review (long) In December, I posted to this list a published review of Cindex. Since then, I have written a similar article on Macrex; it will appear this coming week in the same journal. The article (which is about 21,000 characters) appears below. I'd be glad to receive any comments (dgertler@ssnet.com). This article appears in the _Seybold Report on Publishing Systems,_ Volume 24, Number 11 (Feb. 13, 1995). It is reproduced here with permission from Seybold Publications. As in the Cindex article, I have marked the article title (***), subheads (**), and paragraph lead-ins (*). Bullets are also represented by *. For information about, and/or sample copies of, the _Seybold Report on Publishing Systems_ (22 issues/year), the _Seybold Report on Desktop Publishing_ (monthly), or _Digital Media: A Seybold Report_ (monthly), please call Seybold Publications (Media, Pennsylvania) at (610) 565-6864 or send a fax to (610) 565-1858. ********** ***Macrex for Indexing: Great Features, Rough Interface*** In a recent issue (Vol. 24, No. 7), we looked at Cindex, a program for automating the creation of indexes on a PC. We mentioned that its chief competitor was Macrex, marketed in North America by Bayside Indexing Service. Now, in the spirit of equal time in what is essentially a two-product market, we're taking a similar look at how Macrex works. In comparable fashion to our treatment of Cindex, we won't cover Macrex in great detail, focusing instead on use by a broad range of publishers. A professional indexer trying to choose between them can find more details in industry- specific journals. We simply want to provide further thoughts on the technology behind the index, a crucial but often-undervalued component of nearly any publication. **Overview** In December, Bayside sent us a copy of Macrex 6.22, which sells for $495. The user can install either the Standard version, which needs a '286 or faster PC, or the Extended version, which requires at least a '386. The latter can use extended memory, which increases the number of entries it can manipulate. (The Standard version can sort about 10,000 entries, while the Extended can sort hundreds of thousands on a typically configured PC.) Installation wasn't as painless as we'd like. The automatic installation failed because of an incompatibility in our test machine's BIOS (which hadn't been incompatible with any of the dozens of other programs on our PC). However, a call to the tech-support line produced an easy workaround. We decided to run Macrex in a DOS window on a PC running Windows so that we could have other programs open concurrently. Once we got it going (on our '486DX2/66 with 8 MB of RAM), we used it to index the first four issues of The Seybold Report on Desktop Publishing, Vol. 9. The resulting index contained more than 600 entries. Macrex's speed was fine. There were no delays in finding or manipulating records. The only (brief) waits came when we moved between the main part of the program and one of the "subprograms," such as the ones for merging or printing indexes (see below). **Fundamentals** From Macrex's main screen, the user can choose to enter "add, inspect and edit" mode or "add only" mode. (We presume that "add only" mode, in which the user sees only entries made during that session, was designed to keep someone from introducing errors into previous entries.) Having entered "add, inspect and edit" mode, the user presses F4, which creates a new entry number and places the cursor in a blank field. In Cindex, the user creates a new subhead level (directly below the previous one) by pressing the enter key. To reach the page reference line, where the page number is inserted, she presses the tab key. In Macrex, she simply uses a comma to begin a new level, and she can enter multiple levels on the same line. The program figures that a numeral occurring directly before or after a comma is the beginning of a page number. Macrex's text-entry approach has a couple of advantages. First, the entry looks more like its final formatted version. Second, the user presses "enter" to record that entry and go on to the next one. Cindex makes the user press the page-down key, which means that her right hand leaves the "home row" and isn't immediately ready for more typing. Macrex's method also has drawbacks. If a term she is indexing contains a comma, the user must enclose that comma in braces -- {,} -- to avoid letting the program think a subhead is being created. In addition, there are inconveniences associated with Macrex's response to a numeral before or after a comma (to treat it as the beginning of a page number). For example, the entry Polaroid, SprintScan 35, 1.30 does not parse properly. The user must insert a tilde-exclamation point-tilde (that is, Polaroid, SprintScan 35~!~, 1.30) after the 35 so that Macrex will know that it is part of the subhead rather than part of the page number. The tildes are not displayed in the entry; the exclamation point is displayed, but in a different color, which indicates that it won't print. To edit an existing entry that is among the 15-19 typically on the screen, the Macrex user types its number; the cursor then jumps to the start of that entry. Alternatively, the user can press ESC, then scroll through the entries on the screen, stopping to edit any chosen one. However, the screen display does not scroll in that mode, so only those 15-19 are available for editing. The user can page up or down a screen at a time before pressing ESC or typing an entry number. And Macrex has a very efficient way of getting to the first entry starting with a given letter: simply to type that letter. A user deletes an entry by pressing control-Y. If automatic sorting is turned on, the entry is deleted immediately; if not, it is deleted the next time the index is sorted. Lines and words can also be deleted -- and, fortunately, undeleted. One nice Macrex feature that Cindex lacks is the ability to perform a "half flip" to create a new entry from an old one. Both programs can do a "full flip"; that is, they can duplicate an entry such as Adobe Systems, Acrobat, 4:23 and switch it around to produce a new entry such as Acrobat, Adobe Systems, 4:23. Macrex's half flip would copy the former entry and generate this one: Acrobat, 4:23. A Cindex user could create that sort of entry quickly, but not quite as quickly. These flip functions are tremendous timesavers when citations must be indexed under multiple relevant headings. **A demanding taskmaster** When we review vertical-market software, we have to bear in mind that it isn't designed for the casual user. The typical Cindex or Macrex user is a full-time (or at least most-time) staff or freelance indexer. On the power vs. ease-of-use curve, she is willing to suffer through a relatively steep learning process to attain mastery over a feature-loaded program. We wrote that Cindex was "typical of old-fashioned DOS programs with proprietary interfaces. It seemed clunky at first; as we mastered its commands, though, its power shone." Macrex's power is also impressive, but the part about clunkiness goes double for it. Even creating an index can be frustrating for a novice. Macrex's opening screen asked for the name of the index to open. We typed "DP9" and pressed enter. A notice appeared that read, "Don't use digits for the last character of the index name -- press any key." We pressed a key and were told "Macrex finished -- press any key." Upon pressing another key, we were unceremoniously dumped out of Macrex altogether. Sure, we later found the manual's injunction against ending an index name with a numeral, but is it necessary to punish the user by exiting the program? One of Macrex's most vexing qualities is the way it makes the user format all entries "just so." Does an entry contain a volume and page number? The two numerals must be separated by a period. Not a colon (as we use in The Seybold Report indexes) or a slash or any other character. A period. Is there an illustration on the page? After the page number, the illustration callout, which is "(ill.)" in our indexes, must be enclosed in braces; otherwise, the page number won't be recognized properly. Is the topic mentioned on discontinuous pages -- say, pages 9 and 12 of volume 2? The page numbers must be entered as "2.9, 2.12" rather than simply "2:9, 12" as our style demands. And so on. In those cases, the user can configure Macrex to produce the desired formats on output. Still, more input flexibility would be nice. Unlike Cindex, Macrex cannot display entries in the order in which they were created. Macrex can, however, display them in page-number order, which Cindex cannot. These two sequences are often equivalent, but not always. For instance, a user may decide to index a certain term after encountering it for the second time; she would then type consecutive entries for its two noncontiguous occurrences. Macrex's ability to show entries in page-number order is useful, but the user must perform a long series of tasks to generate this view: leave the add-entry screen, make a backup file, enter a special sorting utility, etc. Macrex cannot have multiple indexes open, as Cindex can. To switch between indexes, the user must start multiple Macrex sessions within a multitasking environment such as Windows. Another constraint is the inability to scroll the formatted print-preview display. Pressing any key advances the display one screen. As the manual points out, "You cannot scroll backward, nor can you make any editing changes to the index while viewing it on the screen." Such pronouncements make us wonder, "Why not?" Searches and replacements can only go forward (to the end of the index) or backward (to the beginning) from the current location. To perform a global search or a search-and-replace operation, you have to start at the beginning or end of the index (which are easily reached). Macrex displays all entries that contain a specified search term. If no match is found, no entry is displayed, and the user is left facing a blank screen. (It would be more natural to return the user to the index; a suitably attention-grabbing message could proclaim that no match had been found.) From that blank screen, pressing the return key redisplays the index, albeit one screen later in the alphabet. To return to the previous display, the user must press the unintuitive key sequence ESC-return-return. **File structure** One Macrex index occupies a slew of files. First, the entries themselves are held in ten files, sorted alphabetically. For instance, all the A entries are in one file, and all the M, N and O entries are in another. An eleventh file holds queries and user-defined keyword macros (abbreviations that are automatically converted to longer terms). Two other files contain the index's name and a headnote that is printed with the index. Up to seven configuration files can also be created for each index. They include such user-set options as display colors, sort methods, printing layout, merge options and word processor output file codes. Seven files wouldn't be too many if they could all be summoned when an index is opened. But even after we had created SEYBOLD.XXX files with the options set as we wanted them, Macrex continued to activate its DEFAULT.XXX files whenever we opened the index. We had to wade through menus and subprograms to open the proper configuration files. How can the user avoid that trap? One tack is to set up a different DOS subdirectory for each set of configuration files (i.e., for each client). The user would then change the default files as necessary and save them as default files again so that they would be opened automatically when the user started to work with an index in that directory. Although that workaround works, it seems more logical for the program to open automatically the configuration files that were last used for the specified index. **Utilities and subprograms** Macrex comes with two types of utility programs: some that can be run from "subprograms" within a Macrex session and some stand-alone utilities. With them, a user can perform these and other functions: *Convert an index to page-number order. *Import and edit an index file from another application (e.g., a word processor). *Assign dummy page numbers while indexing a manuscript that hasn't been typeset, then automate the substitution of the real page numbers. *Generate a separate file containing just the index's main headings or everything but the page-number references, in order to create -- or to compare the current index against -- a reference list of terms and their preferred styles (sometimes called an "authority list"). *Select, using a variety of search operators, a list of entries in one index file and write them to another file. *For any specified level(s) of heading (including the volume and page numbers), globally change the first letter, the first word or the whole heading to uppercase, lowercase, bold or underlined type. *Merge and print.* Two key parts of Macrex, the merge module and the printing module, are designed as "subprograms," which means that Macrex must shut down the main part of the program to access them. That access took only a few seconds on our computer, but it was still jarring to see lots of strange screen activity every time we wanted to change a printing option. **Output** Macrex can print files directly on a variety of laser, ink-jet, dot-matrix and daisy-wheel printers. More important, it can convert indexes into a variety of word processor formats: RTF, WordPerfect, WordStar, XyWrite, even the shareware program PC-Write. Other available options are Corel Ventura, University of Chicago Press, SGML and user-definable formats. One of the stand-alone utilities included with Macrex can convert backup files to and from a database file format. **Support** A typical software package offers several types of aid to users: a manual, help files within the program and technical support via telephone or e-mail. Macrex's manual is adequate, though not impressive. Its rudimentary design reminded us of the sort of manual that might accompany version 1 of a program. Its structure closely matches that of the program; i.e., many pages are devoted to explaining in order the options that each menu presents. The help system falls short of adequate. Help is active only at the main menu, in inspect-entry mode and in add-entry mode. In each of those cases, pressing the question-mark key brings up two screens of information about program operation. The information shown depends upon the location from which it was accessed, but it's a far cry from true context-sensitive help, such as Cindex provides. Personalized technical support helps to make up for that shortcoming. Our telephone calls to Bayside connected us to someone who knew the program quite well. Questions posted on America Online's "Indexing with Macrex" forum are answered quickly, and the questioners generally seem pleased with the answers. **Head-to-head matchup** Since both programs contain all the power needed for nearly any indexing job, what kinds of differences exist between them? In sheer number of features, Macrex and Cindex are roughly comparable. Simply counting the options in each program's menu screens gives Macrex a nearly 2-to-1 advantage (about 150 to about 80). Cindex, however, offers a lot of other features through command-line functions. That command-line approach simplifies some tasks that take extra steps in Macrex, though those extra steps may reveal information that Cindex assumes its users know. Making backups is a good example. Either program can back up work files at user-specified time increments. But what if a user wanted to make a backup by hand? In Cindex, she would type "write" followed (if desired) by any of seven modifiers that determine which records are included and how they are saved. (If a backup file with the default name existed, she would be asked to confirm the overwrite.) In Macrex, she would need to press F1 to exit from "add, inspect and edit" mode; press B for "make a backup file"; enter the letter of the drive to which the backup should be written; and press enter to accept the default name for the backup file (again, being asked to confirm overwriting an existing file with that name). Four options are then presented. The user can change the first or last letter of the index portion to be backed up (the default is to back up the whole index); choose whether to save keywords used for macros (the default is yes); and specify whether error messages produced during the backup should be sent to the printer (the default is no). Pressing the enter key accepts the defaults and creates the backup. This process is typical of the two programs' approaches. Cindex offers plenty of options, but it assumes that the user knows they are there or that she will press F11, the help key, to get context-sensitive information. (For instance, typing "write" and then pressing F11 brings up descriptions of the seven modifiers.) Macrex confronts the user with more options, which makes the process slower but may give useful tips to a user who isn't intimately familiar with all the features. *Utilities.* Another main difference between these programs is the utilities. Macrex's built-in utilities (see above) can perform some functions for which Cindex users must buy separate utilities (developed by Cindex marketer Leverage Technologies). The two sets of utilities overlap but aren't identical, and potential users should investigate them to ensure that one or both sets can handle their requirements. *Pricing.* In price, Macrex has a slight edge: $495 vs. $625 for Cindex, and that price gap increases for any Cindex buyer who also needs some of the stand-alone utilities, which cost tens or hundreds of dollars apiece. **The future** We asked Bayside what sort of enhancements would be in forthcoming versions of Macrex, and whether it would be ported to the Windows or Macintosh platforms. This was the reply: "It is our policy not to comment on future releases until the new version has completed beta testing. We have no plans to develop software for the Macintosh operating system." The Windows version is coming. Bayside's answer to a question on America Online's "Indexing with Macrex" forum included the phrase, "when a native Windows version is released." The question is not if, but when. Indexers with Macintoshes currently run Macrex and Cindex under emulators such as Insignia Solutions' SoftPC or SoftWindows. As we mentioned in our earlier article, Indexing Research is working on porting Cindex to the Mac. Since there are no such plans for Macrex, Cindex will apparently enjoy a Macintosh monopoly. **The voice of experience** For a long-time user's views on Macrex, we went to Marilyn Rowland of Falmouth, MA. Rowland started her indexing career by sorting index cards for her father (also an indexer) when she was a child, and she prepared her first index in high school. Trained as an environmental planner, she returned to indexing so that she could work from home -- a common career move among indexers. Rowland has been using Macrex since 1990. Seeking at that time to replace a less-powerful indexing program written locally, she tried the demo versions of both Macrex and Cindex. Her conclusion? "Macrex worked more like the way I was used to working." Nevertheless, she sometimes finds navigating the interface a chore, and she hopes that Macrex is ported to Windows soon. "If you have to change something like `See also' references, you have to make changes in several different areas, and you have to remember those things each time. That's one of the reasons I'd like to see a Windows version -- to make these settings clearer." She also thinks the manual could be better written. "One of the problems with the manual," she points out, "is that it's set up by menu rather than by function." Bayside's technical support draws her highest praise. "Since it's been on America Online, the support has been just wonderful. I can't imagine having a problem that I couldn't resolve." "I haven't really explored everything that Macrex can do," Rowland admits. "I think it's a great program with a lot of good features. I'd just like it to be more accessible." **Summary** Macrex can do a lot. It has features galore, and a steady user can tweak enough controls to configure it for almost any imaginable indexing task. Power isn't enough, though. Its user interface needs an overhaul even more drastically than Cindex's. By making a user enter data in very controlled ways, wade through menus in search of simple or complex features, and go into separate utility programs to perform basic tasks, Macrex falls short of its potential. A well-executed Windows port or a streamlined, modernized DOS version could help its users become less frustrated and more productive. None of what we have written in these two articles is likely to persuade users of either indexing package to switch to the other. We simply intended to show a snapshot of the current state of indexing software -- what it can do, how it does it, what it could do better. We hope that our audience of publishers has, as we have, gained insight into the science underlying the art of indexing. David Gertler [vendor contact info. box:] Bayside Indexing Service PO Box 3051 Daly City, CA 94015-0051 Phone (415) 756-0821 Fax (415) 757-1567 e-mail: macrex@aol.com Outside North America: Macrex Indexing Services Beech House, Blaydon Burn Tyne & Wear NE21 6JR, UK Phone {44} 91-414 2595 ********** ------------------------------------------------------- Dave Gertler (dgertler@ssnet.com) writer, editor, chess master, daddy (not in that order) homepage: http://ssnet.com/~dgertler/davepage.html "Sooner or later, the inevitable is bound to happen." ------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 12:37:57 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ned Bedinger Subject: Re: Library thesauri >Peter Meyer wrote: >>The difficult part in my experience is in the actual interface for a >>subject search. Most systems require the searcher to enter a proposed >>search term into a field on screen. If the searcher knows the terms as used >>in the thesarus, the user immediately gets the hits he or she is after. If >>not, the software will hopefully direct the searcher to the correct term >>with references to other terms or narrower terms. >>1. Has anyone had experience with graphical displays of subject terms in a >>hierarchy and if so, can it work at the necessary scale? I sense some crossed purposes in you inquiry, which I find intriguing even if they are only an artifact of editing and not your original question. My perception is that thesauri use a horizontal relationship among words, and do not have any direct relationship to vertical subject hierarchies. The intriguing idea, that you could facilitate searches by targetting a vertical zone of information in an explicit hierachy, is an intriguingly marvelous idea that suggests information _roles_. I picture a search that produces no results, leading the searcher to examine thesaurus entries for the search term. This is SOP in almost any medium of information retrieval. But then the lucky searcher can access a list of all information trees that contain each given synonym, and even unfold each tree to examine the structures in search of one that matches the expectation of where the sought-after information should lie. My first reaction is 'Index 2100 AD', but in fact, what it amounts to is really only a database of heirarchies and synonyms. The logic required for such a system is readily available in everyday shrink- wrapped software. The thing that is missing is the explicit heirarchies, and perhaps the thesauri. Now, the intrigue: How extensive are today's classification systems? Would they really contribute much at the subject level to a thesaurus/ heirarchical information system? Ned Bedinger qwa@eskimo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 15:11:17 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: luz marina quiroga Subject: search & discovery tools I am participating in a research project which involves the evaluation ofInternet search tools like Veronica, Archie, Wais, Lycos, WWWW, Harvest, RBSE, etc. I would appreciate your help with references to similar studies available in paper or on the Internet. We are looking for information that help us to understand what can be expected from each one of these searching tools, e.g. which resources are include in the index, how frequently are these indexes updated, which elements of each file/document are included in the index, which retrieval mechanism is used, which kind of operators are managed, etc. At this point we are looking for existing comparative descriptions of these tools or in-depth discussions of them. Once we pull together existing information, we will be attempting to fill in the blanks and may seek additional information as needed. Thanks for your help. Your answers will help me to avoid duplication of work already conducted. If you want more information about the project please contact me. I will try to answer or I will forward your message to Dr. Jana Bradley, principal investigator of the project. Luz Marina Quiroga Indiana University School of Library and Information Science lquiroga@indiana.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 23:19:32 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dwight Walker Subject: Re: MAC to PC file conversion >To: Genealogy Computing discussion list >From: dwalker@ozemail.com.au (Dwight Walker) >Subject: Re: MAC to PC file conversion > >>It really depends where you want to end up. >>The best way I've found is Word on the MAC, into Word for Windows on the >>PC. Modern MACs will write PC format disks (as well as Mac). >>If you really want ASCII for your PC, you must use something like a >>spreadsheet, cut and paste into it from you WP, produce a PC disk of it, >>and then you might be ok. > >Have you heard of Mac Disk by Insignia Solutions? It runs on Windows 3.1 on a PC and allows you to read Mac High density disks. We read PageMaker 4.0 for Mac files across to a 386 running Windows 3.1 It even converts the long file names across to 8 letter names (codes the last extension to differentiate e.g. energy.00i for 'energy data'). It costs around $AU149. Good value. > >Disks must be HD which I believe are from Mac's of the last 2 years. > >This is for PC (as opposed to Mac programs reading PC disks) to read Mac disks > >Mac disk -> 'Mac Disk prog on PC -> PC disk. > >Cheer >Dwight > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 12:23:29 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Seth Maislin Subject: sounds unpleasant... I'm indexing a low-level text on computers, and I found myself creating this entry: printer rebooting a hung There has to be a better a way. So I considered: printers rebooting hung but let's be honest. It's not much better. The text deals with turning off and turning on a printer that is "stuck" on a particular file. The words "reboot" is key but not necessarily demanded. The word "hung" is never really seen, either, since it's often used in active tense: "A file can hang a printer," or "A file will sometimes hang a printer." I've never seen "That printer is hung" -- for intriguing reasons :-). Any suggestions? Seth Maislin seth@ora.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 16:24:46 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Hughes seth@ora.com writes: >I'm indexing a low-level text on computers, and I found myself creating this >entry: > > printer > rebooting a hung > >There has to be a better a way. So I considered: > > printers > rebooting hung > >but let's be honest. It's not much better. > > The text deals with turning off and turning on a printer that is >"stuck" on a particular file. The words "reboot" is key but not necessarily >demanded. The word "hung" is never really seen, either, since it's often used >in active tense: "A file can hang a printer," or "A file will sometimes hang a >printer." I've never seen "That printer is hung" -- for intriguing reasons >:-). > > Any suggestions? Personally, I would settle for: printers rebooting and even an additional entry of: rebooting printers OR rebooting printers I think that the word "hung" is in a way understood, just as the "you" in "Go to your room!" is understood. You probably wouldn't need to reboot your printer if it was working properly, so I don't think that it would unreasonable to expect the reader to infer that this operation could apply to a hung or otherwise non-functioning printer. I hope this helps, or at least irritates someone enough that they'll give you a better idea! Michael ******************************** Michael Hughes Indexer and Patriot "Spreading Joy through HTML" URL: http://www.mcp.com/people FUN: mhughes@indyunix.iupui.edu WORK: mhughes@mcp.com VOICE:(317) 844-5406 ******************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 13:27:53 PST8PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Annette Lorek Organization: Capilano College Subject: Re: sounds unpleasant... > printers > rebooting hung > How about: printers rebooting and booting computers printers and rebooting see also booting and booting see also rebooting I think "hung" is implied in the concept of rebooting. My two cents worth, ________________________________________________ /\ C / \/\ A C Annette Lorek, /__ / \ P O Systems Librarian, |/ \ /\ I L Capilano College, / / \ L L North Vancouver, B.C., Canada / /____\ A E alorek@claude.capcollege.bc.ca -------- | N G Tel: 604-986-1911, Local 2143 | | O E ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 13:47:47 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Re: sounds unpleasant... In-Reply-To: <9502142119.AA29407@carson.u.washington.edu> How about: Printers rebooting when hung or: Hung printers rebooting to clear Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, Wa. e-mail: cweaver@u.washington.edu voice: 206/930-4348 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 16:09:33 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: sounds unpleasant... In-Reply-To: <199502142122.AA29064@metronet.com> On Tue, 14 Feb 1995, Seth Maislin wrote: > I'm indexing a low-level text on computers, and I found myself creating this > entry: > > printer > rebooting a hung > > There has to be a better a way. So I considered: > > printers > rebooting hung > > but let's be honest. It's not much better. > > The text deals with turning off and turning on a printer that is > "stuck" on a particular file. The words "reboot" is key but not necessarily > demanded. The word "hung" is never really seen, either, since it's often used > in active tense: "A file can hang a printer," or "A file will sometimes hang a > printer." I've never seen "That printer is hung" -- for intriguing reasons > :-). > > Any suggestions? > > Seth Maislin > seth@ora.com If it's a really *low* level work (like, waaaaaaay down there...), I would probably avoid the terms "hang" and "reboot" altogether, as being too jargon-ish. How about 'printers / problems' or 'printers / solutions to problems' or even 'printer problems' (if you want an entirely separate entry). Are that many other kinds of printer problems discussed? Enough to want to discriminate among them? If so, try 'printers / restarting'. Michael K. Smith mksmith@metronet.com +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ It doesn't TAKE all kinds, we just HAVE all kinds ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 14:53:20 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: David White Subject: Re: sounds unpleasant... In-Reply-To: <199502142121.AA09266@mail.eskimo.com> How about: Printer, hung rebooting or, Printer rebooting Cheers, Dave On Tue, 14 Feb 1995, Seth Maislin wrote: > I'm indexing a low-level text on computers, and I found myself creating this > entry: > > printer > rebooting a hung > > There has to be a better a way. So I considered: > > printers > rebooting hung > > but let's be honest. It's not much better. > > The text deals with turning off and turning on a printer that is > "stuck" on a particular file. The words "reboot" is key but not necessarily > demanded. The word "hung" is never really seen, either, since it's often used > in active tense: "A file can hang a printer," or "A file will sometimes hang a > printer." I've never seen "That printer is hung" -- for intriguing reasons > :-). > > Any suggestions? > > > Seth Maislin > seth@ora.com > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 20:49:26 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: exner Subject: Re: sounds unpleasant... In-Reply-To: <9502142122.AA12506@nccu.edu> On Tue, 14 Feb 1995, Seth Maislin wrote: > I'm indexing a low-level text on computers, and I found myself creating this > entry: > > printer > rebooting a hung > > There has to be a better a way. So I considered: > > printers > rebooting hung > > but let's be honest. It's not much better. > > The text deals with turning off and turning on a printer that is > "stuck" on a particular file. The words "reboot" is key but not necessarily > demanded. The word "hung" is never really seen, either, since it's often used > in active tense: "A file can hang a printer," or "A file will sometimes hang a > printer." I've never seen "That printer is hung" -- for intriguing reasons > :-). > > Any suggestions? > > > Seth Maislin > seth@ora.com > Seth, Aint computers wonderful?... If my audience is not a bunch of programmers (or even worse, software engineers), I might try: printers restarting stuck but it sure wouldn't be as much fun. Frank Exner, Little Bear fexner@nccu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 20:10:16 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Becky Walton Subject: Dialog w/an indexer I am seeking to establish dialog with an indexer or abstractor, preferably in the Southeastern United States. If anyone is interested, I'll give my background info below so the uninterested ones can go ahead and delete! :) My grad date is this May, and I am very interested in a career in indexing or abstracting. I would like to establish dialog with someone who is in this profession--the dialog can be in whatever form you prefer: email, snail mail, telephone, in person, whatever. Essentially I would like to talk about the best ways to get started and other professional discussion. Ideally I would like to visit and see what is a "typical" day in the life of an indexer. Also, I have a vision of incorporating what I learn from you into a presentation that I would like to give to my class. BTW, I am working on my MLIS at the University of South Carolina. I live in Milledgeville, Georgia, however! :) Thank you for your time. becky Becky Walton College of Library & Information Science University of South Carolina Columbia, SC 29208 home address: 141 Swint Avenue Milledgeville, GA 31061 912/452-0221 MEOW! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 18:43:01 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: sounds unpleasant... Seth: To look at it differently, how about something along the lines of: printer stalled printer rebooting printer and file overloads >I'm indexing a low-level text on computers, and I found myself creating this >entry: > > printer > rebooting a hung > >There has to be a better a way. So I considered: > > printers > rebooting hung > >but let's be honest. It's not much better. > Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@powergrid.electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 19:09:23 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ned Bedinger Subject: Re: sounds unpleasant... > The text deals with turning off and turning on a printer that is >"stuck" on a particular file. The words "reboot" is key but not necessarily > Any suggestions? > The conventional terminology used to be 'cycle the printer' or even 'cycle the printer off and on'. I haven't seen this much lately, but it still fits the occassion when called for. I agree that it probably comes as a printer entry subtopic, but it is probably different from the one that tells you where to look for instructions on turning the printer off/on. I'd hazard a guess that the entry would look like this: printers see also printing On/Off switch 9 Loading paper 9 Connecting To 9 Problems with 9, 10, 23, 47, 99 Note that these are in existential order :-)