From LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.eduFri Aug 25 10:59:34 1995 Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 10:55:16 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB To: Julius Ariail Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9506B" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 11:37:10 +0200 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jack Shaw Subject: Re: References to Germany I like Fred Leise's solution, with one exception: inverted references to West/East Germany seem less likely to be looked for than "West/East Germany" by native English readers. I would therefore not invert to "Germany, West/East". Rather, I'd suggest _see also_ references between/among "Germany", "West Germany", and "East Germany". For whatever it's worth, one-time cross-references from the English & German expressions of the three might also be in order: Bundesrepublik Deutschland (Federal Republic of Germany); see _Germany, West Germany_ . . . Deutsche Demokratische Republik/DDR (German Democratic Republic); see _East Germany (pre-1990), Germany_ . . Federal Republic of Germany; see _Germany, West Germany_ . . German Democratic Republic; see _East Germany (pre-1990), Germany_ . Germany . reunification of (Oct. 3, 1990) ...etc? . . Reunification, German ... etc? --to reduce the main focus to the three original entry groupings. Current context should refer only to "Germany". Jack Shaw jsh@software-ag.de Darmstadt, Germany ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 08:23:46 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rosemary Simpson Subject: sub-subheadings, power of I strongly disagree with Barbara E. Cohen's comment about avoiding sub-subheadin gs. Why annoy users by sending them all over the index when there is a good and simp le method for grouping the entries in one location. In addition, sub-subheadings provide a way to show patterns and relationships th at might not be apparent in the shallower, more scattered method. An index is much more than just a collection of pointers - well done, it can pro vide a semantic net over its subject domain. By avoiding sub-subheadings you both annoy the user and lose one of the most pow erful methods that distinguishes good human indexing from computer-generated poi nter extraction. Michelle Rosemary Simpson Indexing Unlimited ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 09:39:50 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Margie Towery Subject: Terms for Germany I agree with Barbara Cohen, with a small difference. Having worked with numerous scholars from both parts of Germany, I would use the correct terms (Federal Republic of Germany [FRG] and German Democratic Republic [GDR], and maybe Germany [post-1990]) with cross references from Germany, East Germany, and West Germany. Of course, the other problem is that it is not always easy to separate info on Germany into one specific time and place. It often overlaps. While I agree that it may be annoying to readers to have to turn a page or two to find the desired info, I also feel it is appropriate for indexers to use correct terms when possible. For example, I place info on this country under United States, not America. Margie Towery ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 09:21:37 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Maryann Corbett Subject: Re: sub-subheadings, power of In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 08 Jun 95 08:23:46 EDT." The disagreement between Barb Cohen and Rosemary Simpson over sub-subheadings is interesting to me because I have been thinking lately about index use and general levels of literacy. It's certain that human indexers are better than machines at bringing related ideas together in a way that shows their structure, but do our readers SEE the structure we have labored to create? When I read the report "Adult Literacy in America," I saw that the reading tasks that give people the most trouble are the ones that call on them to perceive structures over many lines of text, as in tables and charts. Indexes with many levels of subheadings ask the reader to do exactly that sort of tough job. The indexes I work on have many levels, and I don't see how they could be simplified and still do their job. Nevertheless, I worry about them. Has any- body out there seen any good research about literacy levels and index use? Maryann Corbett maryann.corbett@revisor.leg.state.mn.us ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 09:50:40 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marylee Kastelic Subject: Re: Permutations of Germany In-Reply-To: <199506072213.RAA04716@batch1.csd.uwm.edu> The former West Germany was known as the Federal Republic of Germany. On Wed, 7 Jun 1995, John Gear wrote: > I guess I see it like this: > > Germany > East (German Democratic Republic (GDR)) > Unified > Post-World War II > Pre-WWII > West (I forget what W. Germany was formally called) > > >I am indexing a book on diplomacy and statecraft. The book contains many > >references to Germany, West Germany, East Germany (German Democratic Republic > >[GDR]), and even unified Germany. > > > >I am currently using the main heads "Germany," "West Germany," and "East > >Germany," with _see also_ references, and a see reference from "German > >Democratic Republic" to "East Germany." > > > >For ease of readers' use, what do you think about changing the heads to > >"Germany, West" and "Germany, East" so that they will appear next to each > >other. In the same vein, should I use "Germany, unified"? > > > >Let me know what you think. Thanks. > > > >Fred Leise > > > > > John Gear (catalyst@pacifier.com) > > The Bill of Rights--The Original Contract with America > Accept no substitutes. Beware of imitations. Insist on the genuine articles. > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 11:14:10 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Re: Permutations of Germany In-Reply-To: <9506072302.AA00349@symnet.net> On Wed, 7 Jun 1995, John Gear wrote: > I guess I see it like this: > > Germany > East (German Democratic Republic (GDR)) > Unified > Post-World War II > Pre-WWII > West (I forget what W. Germany was formally called) West Germany was formally called the Federal Republic of Germany (FRG)--which is *also* the formal name for the present unified Germany. Will this terminology cause a problem in your indexing scheme? There are (were?), in effect, two Federal Republic of Germanys: what we think of as West Germany, and the Germany that recently reunited. Hmmmm. I'm kinda concerned about "Germany" as a main heading and then the subheadings and sub-subheadings that follow. If at all possible (my idiosyncratic way of looking at things), I don't like to get any deeper than subheadings in an index. (Will you be following the run-in or indented form in this index? If the former, you'd have to get rid of sub-subheadings.) You might want to have something like Germany. See Federal Republic of Germany (dates for the earlier FRG); Federal Republic of Germany (date-present); German Democratic Republic (dates); Weimar Republic (dates) and the like. The dates might help your readers to help pinpoint the "Germany" they're seeking information on. You could then make cross-references from "FRG" and "GDR" to the appropriate formal title. I've lived in Germany and have a B.A. and an M.A. in German Literature. I'm absolutely fascinated by German history. This sounds like such a yummy project! I envy you. Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@symnet.net) "Books make sense of life. The only problem is that the lives they make sense of are . . . never your own."--Julian Barnes ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 15:43:24 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jeff Finlay, NYU" Organization: St. Peter's College, US Subject: Re: Permutations of Germany If you have German Democratic Republic (GDR) (or Germany, East) Germany, Federal Republic of (FRG) (or Germany, West) Germany, Imperial Germany, Nazi Germany, Unified Germany, Weimar etc you're going to keep the Germanies all together. I think most people using the index will look for Germany when attempting to retrieve references about German society and culture, so they should find what they need. Jeff ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jun 1995 12:13:41 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: James R Farned Subject: Re: WTB Used indexing s/w In-Reply-To: <199506012128.OAA23420@coyote.rain.org> please let me know if you get any "used" indexing software you dont need and i may be interested in purchasing it....also lets compare notes on indexing interests, etc. we are a indexing collective currently operating a bed and breakfast at the same time.... s ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jun 1995 13:29:29 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "James D. Anderson." Subject: Subheadings & Sub-subheadings -- the more the better 12 June 1995 To: INDEX-L re: subheadings I write in favor of lots of subheadings and sub-subheadings. In my view, sub-subheadings should be used whenever there is lots of repetition in subheadings. In such cases, the use of sub- subheadings can lead to "cleaner", clear displays. Since I'm the chair of YOUR committee charged with revising the current NISO standards for indexes, I thought I would toss the draft standard's counsel about subheadings. Here it is: "Even when single term entries are unique, the addition of terms or the use of subheadings can provide information to help the user determine whether the documentary unit might be useful. The addition of a term indicating context or aspect can often relieve users of useless pursuits by providing criteria for eliminating irrelevant references without having to consult each one." -- section 7.1. Jim Anderson, School of Communication, Information, and Library Studies Rutgers University ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jun 1995 18:03:31 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Fred Leise Subject: Consistency/clarity I am editing an index that is mainly a name/location index. An number of city heads have single name subheads, such as: St. John (New Brunswick) Nellie E. Brown performs in, 202 No problem so far. However, for several major city headings, there are many performers listed. For those entries, I have used inverted names to keep the alphabetical order clear: Boston Bowers (Thomas J.) reviewed in, 136 Brown (Nellie E.) performs in, 197 Harden (James) reviewed in, 329 It seems to me that the single subheads read better when not in inverted order. Do you think I should invert those in any case, to be consistent? Your thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks. Fred Leise ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jun 1995 18:52:34 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Re: Consistency/clarity In-Reply-To: <9506112254.AA18901@symnet.net> On Sun, 11 Jun 1995, Fred Leise wrote: > However, for several major city headings, there are many > performers listed. For those entries, I have used inverted names to keep the > alphabetical order clear: > Boston > Bowers (Thomas J.) reviewed in, 136 > Brown (Nellie E.) performs in, 197 > Harden (James) reviewed in, 329 I like this format better than the first one, as it'll be easier for your readers to see how you've alphabetized the names. If you were to have these as subheadings-- Thomas J. Bowers reviewed in Nellie E. Brown performs in James Harden reviewed in --you may confuse your readers. Their eyes will see "T," then "N," then "J," and they'll wonder why. Another point: If there's only one Bowers, one Brown, and one Harden mentioned in the book, I'd delete the first name altogether and write Bowers reviewed in Brown performs in Harden reviewed in Your readers can easily look up the main headings "Bowers," "Brown, and "Harden" (assuming, of course, that you've used these as main heads *and* subheads), if they're not sure of first names. I work for one publisher that requires Mary Smith sniffles in John Unger weeps in Amos Zed noshes in I think it's confusing for readers. But hey, it's in the publisher's style manual, and that's the way the folks at the press want it, so. . . . Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@symnet.net) "Books make sense of life. The only problem is that the lives they make sense of are . . . never your own."--Julian Barnes ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jun 1995 19:14:30 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Re: Subheadings & Sub-subheadings -- the more the better In-Reply-To: <9506112235.AA18769@symnet.net> On Sun, 11 Jun 1995, James D. Anderson. wrote: > I write in favor of lots of subheadings and sub-subheadings. In > my view, sub-subheadings should be used whenever there is lots of > repetition in subheadings. In such cases, the use of sub- > subheadings can lead to "cleaner", clear displays. I vote for as few sub-subheadings as possible. > Since I'm the chair of YOUR committee charged with revising the > current NISO standards for indexes, I thought I would toss the > draft standard's counsel about subheadings. Here it is: > > "Even when single term entries are unique, the addition of terms > or the use of subheadings can provide information to help the > user determine whether the documentary unit might be useful. The > addition of a term indicating context or aspect can often relieve > users of useless pursuits by providing criteria for eliminating > irrelevant references without having to consult each one." -- > section 7.1. Should we read "subheadings" here as meaning "subheadings and *only* subheadings"? Or should we read it to mean "subheadings, sub-subheadings, sub-sub-subheadings, and so on"? If the former: fine. If the latter: I'm agin it. Subheadings are absolutely necessary. But your average index user has difficulty with sub-subheadings, sub-sub-subheadings, and the like. Think of the confusion that arises when a user turns the page, and a main heading's attendant sub-subheadings continue on. It's hard for the reader to figure out what's modifying what. I think in particular of the difficulty people have using books of statutes. Yes, the law is complicated. (But is it any more complicated than any other discipline?) Legal indexers at revisors of statutes offices strive to make the indexes useful for the lawyer *and* the layperson. (I know all the indexers at the Florida Division of Statutory Revision. They make sure to put their telephone number in the statute books so that people will call with suggestions and criticisms. They respond quickly to such comments. They really *want* to make the law accessible.) But the layers and layers of subheadings are daunting. Perhaps it's six of one and a half-dozen of the other: Either lose your readers in the forest of subheadings, or annoy them by sending them elsewhere in the index. I was an in-house indexer for a large legal publisher, and I've been freelancing since 1985. I work for legal publishers and for lots of other publishers, as well. My clients want indexes that are easy to use. They're happiest having indexes that stop at the subheading level. Period. And what can one do if one uses the run-in, rather than the indented, method of indexing? Many of my clients want me to use the former style. Sub-subheadings are thus eliminated. My $.02. Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@symnet.net) "Books make sense of life. The only problem is that the lives they make sense of are . . . never your own."--Julian Barnes ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jun 1995 21:23:51 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michelle Rosemary Simpson Subject: sub-subheadings (cont'd) Readers have no difficulties with sub-subheadings when turning a page ***if*** the appropriate continuation heads have been used. These are essential to a properly formatted index. As Nancy Mulvany correctly points out, one of the differences between authoring an index and mere work-for-hire lies in the control we insist on having over the readability of the final product. Once again, a good index provides more than just a list of terms. It guides the reader by providing a semantic net, using see-also trails, over the subject domain, and a rich structure is necessary as the basis for that semantic net. In addition, such an index is the finest possible way to storyboard a powerful and clear hypertext web, whether that web is a help file, a Storyspace hypertext, or an HTML home page. Michelle Rosemary Simpson ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jun 1995 21:25:11 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Fred Leise Subject: Order of names Another quaint problem: In what order would you place the following names in an index (assume word-by-word alpha order): Luca, John Luca, Simeon Luca, Alexander Luca, Mrs. (no other known identification) Given your chosen order, how would your alphabetize: Luca, John Luca, Simeon Luca, Alexander Luca, Mrs. James Thanks for your help. Fred Leise ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jun 1995 21:17:56 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Re: sub-subheadings (cont'd) In-Reply-To: <9506120205.AA20491@symnet.net> On Sun, 11 Jun 1995, Michelle Rosemary Simpson wrote: > Readers have no difficulties with sub-subheadings when turning a page > ***if*** the appropriate continuation heads have been used. These are > essential to a properly formatted index. As Nancy Mulvany correctly points > out, one of the differences between authoring an index and mere > work-for-hire lies in the control we insist on having over the readability > of the final product. Gee, I guess I must engage in "mere work-for-hire" as opposed to the rarefied world of "authoring an index." I feel that part of my duty as an indexer is to work with publishers and teach them about the importance of a good index. However, if my clients want an index done a certain way and have a good reason for making such a request, I comply with their wishes. I realize I may be soiling my hands by being so impurely commercial , but I have to make a living. Once my index leaves my hands, it belongs to my client, and my client can then do what he or she thinks best. If I don't like the changes, I respectfully request that my name not be put in the book as the indexer. Happy authoring! Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@symnet.net) "Books make sense of life. The only problem is that the lives they make sense of are . . . never your own."--Julian Barnes ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 09:51:54 CDT Reply-To: becohen@prairienet.org Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barbara E. Cohen" Subject: Re: sub-subheadings, power of In response to Michelle Rosemary's Simpson's taking exception to my commwents about avoiding sub-subheadings, I would like to say that many clients give specific instructions to avoid them in their indexes. Therefore, it is useful to know how to. Also, in a complex index, avoiding one level of division might be necessary in order to use subsequent levels of subheadings efficiently. Therefore, I would probably not group the three variants of Germany East-West-unified in the Gs. I wouldn't regard it as a disservice to the use to make distinctions, as the political divisions are clearly East Germany, not Germany, eastern province of. Barbara -- Barbara E. Cohen Indexing & Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 09:54:16 CDT Reply-To: becohen@prairienet.org Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barbara E. Cohen" Subject: Re: Terms for Germany Re: Margie Towery's comments about using "correct" terms for political divisions, I would probably determine whether to use the term Germany Democratic Republic versus East germany based on the usage int he text, with appropriate cross-references, of course. Barbara -- Barbara E. Cohen Indexing & Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 11:04:39 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Fred Leise Subject: Ignore titles? Another minor problem: In what order would you place the following names in an index (assume word-by-word alpha order): Luca, John Luca, Simeon Luca, Alexander Luca, Mrs. Given your chosen order for the above, how would your alphabetize: Luca, John Luca, Simeon Luca, Alexander Luca, Mrs. James Thanks for your help. Fred Leise ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 21:11:36 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Sloan Subject: Re: Ignore titles? You wrote: > >Another minor problem: > >In what order would you place the following names in an index (assume >word-by-word alpha order): > >Luca, John >Luca, Simeon >Luca, Alexander >Luca, Mrs. > >Given your chosen order for the above, how would your alphabetize: > >Luca, John >Luca, Simeon >Luca, Alexander >Luca, Mrs. James > >Thanks for your help. > >Fred Leise > Luca, Alexander Luca, Mrs. James Luca, John Luca, Simeon Simply sort alphebetically by first name, ignoring titles such as Mrs.. I hope this helps. Linda Sloan indexer@ix.netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 23:27:18 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: Subheadings & Sub-subheadings -- the more the better Some of my clients don't permit subsubheadings, but when they do I use them, unless space is tight and the index is going three columns across (or is run-in). For example, in an index I'm working on now (or should be instead of sitting here online), I have the following: annotations viewing cluster, 4-70 definition, 4-64 specification, 4-73 Without the subsubs, a user wanting information on viewing specification annotations would be forced to make false drops at cluster annotations and definition annotations before hitting pay dirt. IMO, when someone has to refer to a computer manual, they're already angry. I don't read them either unless I'm paid to. ;-) OK, the index entry starting this thread wasn't in a computer manual, but I think my point still holds. Judicious use of subsubs can get readers quickly to the information they want and back to work in just a few eyeblinks. Who knows? Chernobyl may not have reached the melt-down stage if some technician hadn't had to page through the index for emergency shutdown procedures. (Scene: The Chernobyl control room, klaxons blaring in background, ominous rumble through the floor as the eerie glow of Cherenkov radiation fills the room--"What do you meeeean you can't find it in the index?!!!!") Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 07:10:58 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Re: Subheadings & Sub-subheadings -- the more the better In-Reply-To: <9506130717.AA00361@symnet.net> On Mon, 12 Jun 1995, Lynn Moncrief wrote: > IMO, when someone has to refer to a computer manual, they're already > angry. I don't read them either unless I'm paid to. ;-) I agree completely! Naive question: Why are so many computer manuals so wretchedly written *and* so wretchedly indexed? I have here (triumphant throat clearing as she whips out a volume) the documentation for my fax/modem. The index is useless. You'd think, wouldn't you, that if you read the chapter on faxes, you'd learn how to send and receive 'em? Nope! That vital info is hidden away in an appendix. And the appendix isn't mentioned in the table of contents. And there certainly are no references to it in the index. Grrrrrrrrrr. Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@symnet.net) "Books make sense of life. The only problem is that the lives they make sense of are . . . never your own."--Julian Barnes ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 10:39:20 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Larry Harrison Subject: Re: Subheadings & Sub-subheadings Original post: >...Naive question: Why are so many computer manuals so wretchedly written *and* so wretchedly indexed?... Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@symnet.net)< Well, Hazel, since you said naive and not rhetorical, as a former manager of software development for a couple of different companies I have seen three primary causes for the execrable quality of software documentation and indexes: 1. Impossibly tight deadlines. 2. Impossibly tight deadlines. 3. Impossibly tight deadlines. Larry Harrison [Bookindexr@aol.com] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 07:54:45 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Subheadings & Sub-subheadings -- the more the better You wrote: > >On Mon, 12 Jun 1995, Lynn Moncrief wrote: > >> IMO, when someone has to refer to a computer manual, they're already >> angry. I don't read them either unless I'm paid to. ;-) > >I agree completely! Naive question: Why are so many computer manuals so >wretchedly written *and* so wretchedly indexed? > > The scenario looks something like this: The developer who creates the software think in terms of what the software does and not what the user wants to do with it. A writer asks the developer "What does this do?" and gets an answer in terms of operational characteristics of the program. The writer either doesn't have enough experience to know the user's perspective or can't convince the developer that a user perspective is important. The book ends up more of a product specification, describing how the progam works and not what one can do with it. An indexer, who may also lack a user perspective and further be hampered by not even having the developer to talk to, crates an index that mirrors the content of the book. Classic case in point: The IBM ProPrinter came out about 1985 and was advertised as a "Near-Letter Quality (NLQ)" printer. I bought one, and immediately wanted to see what near-letter quality looked like. I looked in the index under: near-letter quality, NLQ, fonts, type faces, etc. Nothing. Weeks later, someone pointed out to me that it was indexed under "sending ASCII codes to your printer." The programmer who wrote the printing software was thinking in terms of what his program had to do to achieve NLQ -- it had to pick up an ASCII code imbedded in the target document and transmit it to the printer. The text got written around how one sends an ASCII code to the printer. The index mirrored the text. Nobody realized that the user task would be "printing NLQ text." Dick Evans ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 11:12:35 +0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Peg Mauer pmauer@caps.kodak.com" Subject: Quality of Software Documentation Larry Harrison said: > Well, Hazel, since you said naive and not rhetorical, as a former manager of > software development for a couple of different companies I have seen three > primary causes for the execrable quality of software documentation and > indexes: > > 1. Impossibly tight deadlines. > 2. Impossibly tight deadlines. > 3. Impossibly tight deadlines. As the writer of software documentation, I say, Amen! Amen! Amen! We are *never* given the time to ensure high quality...if it's *technically accurate,* Ship it! So much for quality. I've been trying to convince my management of the need for Indexes for a long time; our manuals rarely have them when they're shipped. (I'm embarrassed to admit.) The schedule never allows the time for an Index to be created. Peg Mauer pmauer@caps.kodak.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 13:28:39 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Richard Shrout, LIB, (202) 514-5102" Subject: Re: Subheadings & Sub-subheadings -- the more the better One reason that so many computer manuals are so wretchedly written and indexed is because they have to appear on the shelf with the software - which is basically an impossible schedule. There are some software companies that recognize the importance of indexing and employ excellent indexers such as Lynn Moncrief but I have noticed many totally absent or totally useless indexes in computer manuals also. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 13:31:03 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Richard Shrout, LIB, (202) 514-5102" Subject: Re: Subheadings & Sub-subheadings I wrote my message before I saw yours. Glad to see that we are in total agreement. Did you attend round table on computer manuals. I was surprised that the impossible deadlines were never mentioned as a significant factor. Least I never heard it at my end of the group. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 11:00:56 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Eric Dahlin Subject: TEI Workshop * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ANNOUNCEMENT * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * REGISTRATION INFORMATION * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * TEXT ENCODING FOR INFORMATION INTERCHANGE A Tutorial Introduction to the Text Encoding Initiative A workshop to be held at ACH/ALLC '95 in Santa Barbara The organizers of ACH/ALLC '95 are pleased to announce a pre-conference workshop on the Text Encoding Initiative Guidelines. Title: Text Encoding for Information Interchange: A Tutorial Introduction to the Text Encoding Initiative Date: 10 July 1995, 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. Place: UCSB Microcomputer Laboratory Instructors: C. M. Sperberg-McQueen, Lou Burnard, David Chesnutt Registration fee: $50 This workshop will introduce the encoding scheme recommended by the Text Encoding Initiative (TEI) in its Guidelines for Text Encoding and Interchange. The main focus will be on introducing the tag set defined in the Guidelines, but the context within which the TEI Guidelines were developed and general problems of text markup will also be addressed. Topics to be covered include: 1. General Principles of Text Markup: What is markup for? Varieties of markup; effect of markup. What are electronic texts for? Markup and interpretation. Markup as a means of enabling intelligent retrieval. 2. Basics of SGML: What it is and isn't; the case for using it. Basic SGML syntax for the document instance (tags, entity references, comment declarations). Examination and explication of simple examples. 3. Document Analysis: What document analysis is, and why it is an essential part of any e-text project. Phases of document analysis. Group document analysis of a sample text. 4. Basics of the TEI: origins and goals of the TEI, overall organization of the TEI encoding scheme, basic structural notions of the TEI DTD and the pizza model: the base, additional, and core tag sets, and how they may be extended, modified, and documented; group tagging of the sample document. 5. Hands-on Session: introduction to standard commercial or public-domain SGML-aware editor. 6. Putting the TEI into Practice: types of software available for SGML, how the adoption of TEI encoding affects the practical work of an e-text project, and a review of where to go for further information. The Text Encoding Initiative The Text Encoding Initiative (TEI) is an international cooperative research effort, the goal of which is to define a set of generic Guidelines for the representation of all kinds of textual materials in electronic form, in such a way as to enable researchers in any discipline to interchange texts and datasets in machine readable form, independently of the software or hardware in use, and also independently of the particular application for which such electronic resources are used. The first full version of the TEI Guidelines was published in May, 1994, after six years of development in Europe and the US. It takes the form of a substantial reference manual, documenting a modular and extensible SGML document type definition (DTD), which can be used to describe electronic encodings of all kinds of texts, of all times and in all languages. It is sometimes said that the Standard Generalized Markup Language (SGML: ISO 8879) provides only the syntax for text markup; the TEI aims to provide a semantics. Computer-aided research now crosses many political, linguistics, temporal, and disciplinary boundaries; the TEI Guidelines have been designed to be applied to texts in any language, from any period, in any genre, encoded for research of any kind. As far as possible, the Guidelines eschew controversy; where consensus has not been established, only very general recommendations are made. The object is to help the researcher make his or her position explicit, not to dictate what that position should be. Viewed as a standard, the TEI scheme attempts to occupy the middle ground. It offers neither a single all-embracing encoding scheme, solving all problems once for all, nor an unstructured collection of tag sets. Rather it offers an extensible framework containing a common core of features, a choice of frameworks or bases, and a wide variety of optional additions for specific application areas. Somewhat light-heartedly, we refer to this as the Chicago Pizza model (in which the customer chooses a particular base -- say deep dish or whole crust -- and adds the toppings of his or her choice), by contrast with both the Chinese menu or laissez-faire approach (which allows for any combinations of dishes, even the ridiculous) and the set meal approach, in which you must have the entire menu. Materials and Presenters All participants will be provided with a printed introductory summary guide to the TEI scheme, and supporting materials on PC disks, including full versions of the TEI DTDs, public domain SGML software and sample TEI texts. Subject to availability, participants may be able to acquire the CD-ROM of the TEI Guidelines at a discounted price. The tutorial will be taught by three instructors: C. M. Sperberg-McQueen (Computer Center, University of Illinois at Chicago), Lou Burnard (Oxford University Computing Services), and David Chesnutt (Dept. of History, University of South Carolina). ======================================================================= Registration Form ----------------- (please return before July 1, 1995) TEI Tutorial University of California, Santa Barbara Monday, July 10, 1995 9 am to 4 pm UCSB Microcomputer Laboratory Fee $50 Registration for the TEI Tutorial will take place in the lobby of Anacapa Hall on Monday, July 10, from 8 to 10 am. Those staying on-campus at UCSB during ACH/ALLC '95 and wishing to arrive early for the purpose of attending the TEI Tutorial may check in after noon on Sunday and stay an additional night for $29 double or $42 single, no meals included. Meals may be purchased separately. Name: Affiliation: Address: Phone: Fax: E-mail: Payment of Fees: ---------------- Payment in U.S. Dollars may be made by: Personal Check Money Order Bank Check [Checks must be drawn on a U.S. Bank and should be made payable to U.C. Regents.] Credit Card: VISA or MASTERCARD International Wire Transfer (in U.S. Dollars) from your bank to: Bank of America San Francisco Commercial Banking, Office (#1499) 555 California Street, 2nd Floor San Francisco, CA 94104 Account #07805-00030 Regents of University of California Santa Barbara. Reference: ACH/ALLC [If using this latter method of payment; please add an additional $10 to the total to cover the bank's fee for this service.] Payment (please check appropriate box): ___ Personal Check ___ Money Order ___ Bank check is enclosed ___ Wire Transfer [please enclosed a copy of the wire transfer receipt with your registration] Please charge to my credit card: ___ MasterCard ___ Visa Credit Card #: Expiration Date: Signature: Date: Please complete and return this form with your remittance to: TEI Tutorial, ACH/ALLC '95 c/o Campus Conference Services University of California Santa Barbara, CA 93106-6120 Phone: (805) 893-3072 Fax: (805) 893-7287 E-mail: hr03conf@ucsbvm.ucsb.edu For questions regarding accommodations and registration, please contact: Sally Vito Phone: (805) 893-3072 E-mail: hr03vito@ucsbvm.ucsb.edu Please check applicable items below ------------------------------------ ___ $50 fee for TEI Tutorial ___ $29 On-campus housing, double occupancy ___ $42 On-campus housing, single occupancy ___ Total ================================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 14:38:31 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Richard Shrout, LIB, (202) 514-5102" Subject: Re: Subheadings & Sub-subheadings -- the more the better Hey, Lynn, get to work! So I want to see verb forms and sub, sub, sub headings all together. It's a good thing no one brought up sub headings at the conference or our discussions might have lasted much longer. Glad to see that you got back safely. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 19:34:38 +0000 Reply-To: edserve@klyle.demon.co.uk Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kathleen Lyle Subject: Re: Quality of Software Documentation > 1. Impossibly tight deadlines. > 2. Impossibly tight deadlines. > 3. Impossibly tight deadlines. > > haven't worked on software documentation, butI do quite a bit of > editorial work (mostly proofreading, but occasionally indexing as > well) for a local consultancy who develope training packages for > corporate clients - large banks, retail chains, utility > companies, etc. It's very different from working for publishers > because the clients have very little grasp of the processes > involved, how long it might take, and how disruptive changes might > be at a particular stage. They bright side is that they pay higher > rates than most publishers. Kathleen Lyle ## editorial services 43 Brighton Terrace Road ## +114 268 5221 Sheffield S10 1NT ## edserve@klyle.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 13:01:04 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: johno@SPRY.COM Subject: Indexing Computer Software for Help files In-Reply-To: <199506112332.QAA24983@homer.spry.com> Hi folks! I've spent my lunch hour cleaning out my e-mail folders--thanks for the interesting threads over the past months. I work for CompuServe's new Internet Division (formerly a little company called SPRY) documenting Internet applications. I'm currently enrolled in the USDA indexing course (thumbs up!). The course covers a lot of information about indexing books, and Nancy Mulvany's book "Indexing Books," by title, covers the subject as well. As a technical writer, I not only create the documentation, but I also create the Help files more and more users are accessing. IMHO, Help files are an expanded form of an index: there are direct references to specific terms (such as 'PRINT command') and indirect references to more inferred information (Printing with Mosaic). Like an index, the references lead to more information. Unlike a book index, a Help file has hypertext jumps to the information. My goal is to apply what I'm learning in the indexing course to what I do as a Help writer, but I've found only brief mention of how to 'index' computer software in any of the USDA course reference materials. Does anyone have any suggestions/references/ideas/input? Creating specific topics is easy, such as PRINT or SAVE commands, but coming up with inferred references is more challenging--software is not like a book. You can't curl up with an alpha version of a software product (under the constrains of a three day deadline) and read through it a second time to analyze and identify concepts not stated verbatim (Mulvany, Nancy "Indexing Books" 6). What kinds of strategies are you applying to create a quality 'index' for your Help files? Thanks in advance! John O. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * John Overbaugh johno@spry.com Technical Documentation SPRY, Inc. CompuServe Internet Division Makers of Internet In A Box and Internet Office Award-Winning PC to Internet Connectivity Solutions * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 16:27:29 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Software manual indexing war stories Richard, Thanks for the compliment! You're right, it is odd that we didn't discuss tight deadlines at the Computer Manual Indexing roundtable. As cohost, I'm slapping my face in chagrin. BTW, most of me got back safely, but my voice is still lost in Montreal somewhere. ;-) All, Now here's one for you about impossible deadlines. Yesterday a client sent me two chapters (one only partially completed), only 44 pages, of a 150-page book for an index that's due back to them by Friday. The rest of the book was supposed to come on Wednesday (to be shipped out with a completed index on Thursday!), however I learned that the writers haven't even finished it, let alone sent it to layout. And this is an index to be done in FrameMaker where 5-10 pages per hour is about average speed! Being that this product has been delayed since last August, I'm sure they'll give me more time when they return my frantic messages. :-) Just for grins and giggles, I thought you'd like to know that I'm finishing up an index for a software product that has yet to be named! Talk about indexing a moving target? This target's not even there! The client did warn me that this would be a challenge. I'm still wondering why they asked me to index it when they did. I'll probably see this index again after they rewrite the book, rename the product, and decide that the revisions require more work on the index. Next week I'm supposed to receive a book that a client's writers tried to index. (Same client as the one-day-wonder index.) Last week, they asked me to "fix" this index. So, I "fixed" it with a huge page-order sort (their entries vs. mine) telling them what to edit, add, and delete. The writers fled in terror from this and now the client is asking me to index this same book (third index for it), this time from scratch. Indexing software manuals is not for the faint of heart. Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs You wrote: > >One reason that so many computer manuals are so wretchedly >written and indexed is because they have to appear on the shelf >with the software - which is basically an impossible schedule. > >There are some software companies that recognize the importance >of indexing and employ excellent indexers such as Lynn Moncrief >but I have noticed many totally absent or totally useless indexes >in computer manuals also. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 19:36:39 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Computer documentation In-Reply-To: <9506131852.AA03298@symnet.net> Many, many thank yous to everybody who's been writing to me about why computer documentation is so wretched, and why indexes to such publications are usually nonexistent. I never realized how insane the deadlines were. It's a true pity that the documentation can't be more user friendly. I know I'd be a lot happier if I hadn't had to've cursed my way through my fax/modem documentation. Thanks again to everybody who wrote. Your insights have been true eye openers for me. Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@symnet.net) "Books make sense of life. The only problem is that the lives they make sense of are . . . never your own."--Julian Barnes ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 16:58:46 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: Subheadings & Sub-subheadings -- the more the better Dick, Right you are about too many software docs being written from the programmer's perspective! IMHO, a big challenge for us is to create task-oriented indexes even when the writer is unable to create a task-oriented text. However, I've also had the pleasure of indexing extremely well-written manuals. In all of the cases where I've had a well-written text to work with, the writers actually had the software itself to play with while writing, forcing them to adopt the user's perspective. It's a bit like when I used to write electronic hardware manuals and would get the client let me take the equipment apart, reassemble it, etc. or have their technicians do it in front of me so I could write the manual from the user's perspective. (Being a former electronics tech helped convince them that I wouldn't electrocute myself in the process.) One advantage to indexing for some software companies is the opportunity to talk with the writers, who ask the developers for clarification in turn. One of these situations actually led to the programmers discovering a bug in the product. Its inconsistent behavior led to inconsistencies in the text causing a very confused indexer to ask a few questions. Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs You wrote: >The scenario looks something like this: > >The developer who creates the software think in terms of what the >software does and not what the user wants to do with it. A writer asks >the developer "What does this do?" and gets an answer in terms of >operational characteristics of the program. The writer either doesn't >have enough experience to know the user's perspective or can't convince >the developer that a user perspective is important. The book ends up >more of a product specification, describing how the progam works and >not what one can do with it. An indexer, who may also lack a user >perspective and further be hampered by not even having the developer to >talk to, crates an index that mirrors the content of the book. > >Dick Evans > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 22:12:08 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Tammy Schneider Subject: Indexing in Public Libraries Hi! I'm new to the list (and a library science student). I'll probably end up in a public library. It sounds like most of you are back-of-the-book indexers, but I was just wondering if any of you could share your experiences in public libraries. I'm particularly interested in the types of projects, time spent indexing, etc. Thanks! Tammy Schneider ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 14:33:35 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan MacDougall Subject: Re: indexing of computer manuals In-Reply-To: <9506132243.AA00461@comserver.canberra.edu.au> Re: some very poor indexes to computer manuals Computer professionals (and others) probably are not aware of the body of knowledge and research on subject indexing, and they think that automatic indexing will do the job. Automatic indexes, even tidied up, may be little more than concordances which do not take into account entry terms for the lay person, do not group entries by subject and do not know what to include and what to omit. It may be very hard for someone immersed in a professional area (such as computing) to imagine the terms that the users/readers may look for in an index. While we are casting aspersions, what about cookbook indexes! """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" These are my opinions, not necessarily those of my employer! """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Susan MacDougall, Lecturer, Library & Information Studies Faculty of Communication University of Canberra email smd@comserver.canberra.edu.au ph +61 6 201 2645 fax +61 6 201 5119 """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 05:55:22 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jim McGregor Subject: Re: Indexing in Public Libraries >Tammy Schneider writes... > >... but I was just wondering if any of you could share your experiences >in public libraries. I'm particularly interested in the types of projects, >time spent indexing, etc. Thanks! I work in the local history department of our medium-sized public library here i n Rotorua, New Zealand. We have a large collection of local history files arranged in fold ers by subject - e.g., *Farming*, *Schools*, *Hospitals* etc - which are the work of one man an d are largely notes and photocopies from our local newspapers from ca.1870s on. I have been engaged in indexing each of these from a local history perspective p art-time (in between doing all the rest that a librarian does). Our library got its first PC just over a year ago & so far the indexes I have done are basically text files. Next week or so w e are getting MS Access which will enable me to convert the files from text to database and tu rn the multiple indexes into one for all our local history material. Ultimately we will have Plus we have other subject lists and items of particular interest that we need t o have indexed in depth, especially Maori ( = indigenous peoples of New Zealand). We will also be setting up a file of local births deaths and marriages, mainly from the papers. And in case you think that MS Access is an unlikely choice for indexing software you are probably right. But the relational model seems to be what we are wanting for thi s and it is a LOT cheaper and flexible than other customised software. DYNIX (our main library program) doesn't do anything suitable in their library stuff - it is a book catalog syste m and doesn't allow the subject depth we want for this. Jim McGregor Rotorua Public Library Rotorua New Zealand ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 07:31:57 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Cookbook indexes In-Reply-To: <9506140700.AA04774@symnet.net> On Wed, 14 Jun 1995, Susan MacDougall wrote: > While we are casting aspersions, what about cookbook indexes! I own a cookbook that I just *knew* contained some recipes for granola. So, I checked the index under "granola." Nothing. "Cereal." Nothing. "Breakfast." Nothing. Finally, I just started flipping through the cookbook. (It wasn't exactly a busy day.) I finally hit the two granola recipes: "Crunchy Granola I" and "Crunchy Granola II." I decided to check the index. And yep, there they were: "crunchy granola I" and "crunchy granola II." Like somebody'd *really* look up "granola" under "crunchy." BTW, the pages listed in the index for the two granola recipes were incorrect. Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@symnet.net) "Books make sense of life. The only problem is that the lives they make sense of are . . . never your own."--Julian Barnes ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 08:01:51 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Re: indexing of computer manuals In-Reply-To: <9506140612.AA02477@carson.u.washington.edu> Following is my very favorite example of what can happen when publishers let a computer (instead of a human) do the indexing. These index entries were in a consumer health book which I found on the remainder table in a medical bookstore: England, New Journal of Medicine Journal, New England of Medicine Can't remember if they ever got around to "New England Journal of Medicine". And I also wonder if the publisher ever figured out why the book (otherwise not too bad) ended up being remaindered... Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, Wa. e-mail: cweaver@u.washington.edu voice: 206/930-4348 On Wed, 14 Jun 1995, Susan MacDougall wrote: > > Automatic indexes, even tidied up, may be little more than > concordances which do not take into account entry terms for the lay > person, do not group entries by subject and do not know what to include > and what to omit. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 11:46:10 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Larry Harrison Subject: Re: Cookbook indexes Yep, my favorite sin in cookbook indexing is listing recipe titles sorted by first letter of first word. I guess inverting or adding entries is just too hard. My favorite Chinese cookbook is indexed this way. My favorite shrimp salad is not found under "shrimp" or "salad" but under the letter "Q" for "Quick Shrimp Salad." I did recently achieve my fantasy of doing a cookbook index and I really enjoyed NOT committing all the sins I suffer from when using cookbooks. Larry Harrison ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 13:45:03 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jeff Finlay, NYU" Organization: St. Peter's College, US Subject: Re: Cookbook indexes > Finally, I just started flipping through the cookbook. (It wasn't exactly > a busy day.) I finally hit the two granola recipes: "Crunchy Granola I" > and "Crunchy Granola II." I decided to check the index. And yep, there > they were: "crunchy granola I" and "crunchy granola II." Like somebody'd > *really* look up "granola" under "crunchy." > Looks like ethics in indexing revisited. Btw, I came across a book on prostitution in western cities in the nineteeth century this weekend. There was a very extensively sub-headed entry for Women, but for African-American women, it said SEE Prostitutes, and for Hispanic women, it said SEE Prostitutes, and for Native American Women, it said SEE Prostitutes. This was a recent book, a scholarly work. I was flabbergasted. There is no doubt the index was "accurate" but somebody's ethics--the indexer's or the publisher's--needed a second glance. Jeff ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 14:07:20 U Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joanne Holiday Subject: Re: Indexing in Public Libr Reply to: RE>>Indexing in Public Libr On 6/14, Jim McGregor of the Rotorua Public Library, Rotorua New Zealand wrote: Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Re: indexing of computer manuals (fwd) I'm trying this again, since it seems to have bombed at several locations. Apologies if it's a duplicate. Carolyn ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Following is my very favorite example of what can happen when publishers let a computer (instead of a human) do the indexing. These index entries were in a consumer health book which I found on the remainder table in a medical bookstore: England, New Journal of Medicine Journal, New England of Medicine Can't remember if they ever got around to "New England Journal of Medicine". And I also wonder if the publisher ever figured out why the book (otherwise not too bad) ended up being remaindered... Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, Wa. e-mail: cweaver@u.washington.edu voice: 206/930-4348 On Wed, 14 Jun 1995, Susan MacDougall wrote: > > Automatic indexes, even tidied up, may be little more than > concordances which do not take into account entry terms for the lay > person, do not group entries by subject and do not know what to include > and what to omit. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 12:28:05 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Eric Dahlin Subject: ACH/ALLC '95 program ******************************************************************** ACH/ALLC '95, July 11-15, 1995 University of California, Santa Barbara ======================================= Tentative Program (subject to change) Sunday, July 9 -------------- 1 pm onward dormitory check-in Anacapa Hall Monday, July 10 --------------- 1 pm onward dormitory check-in Anacapa Hall 8 to 10 am registration for TEI workshop Anacapa Hall 9 am to 4 pm TEI Workshop Microcomputer Lab Tuesday, July 11 ---------------- 9 am onward dormitory check-in Anacapa Hall 8 to 10 am ALLC Committee Anacapa Hall 10 am to 12 noon ACH Executive Council Anacapa Hall 1 to 4 pm tour of Santa Barbara [departing from] 2 to 7 pm registration Anacapa Hall 5:30 pm opening session [location] Welcome: Nancy Ide, President, ACH; Susan Hockey, Chairman, ALLC Opening address: Walter E. Massey, Provost and Senior Vice President, Academic Affairs, University of California "Surfing the Net: What New Technologies Mean for Education" 7:00 pm reception Lagoon Patio 8:00 pm banquet Corwin Room Wednesday, July 12 ------------------ 8 am to 3 pm registration Corwin Lobby 9 to 10:30 am Plenary Session Corwin West Keynote address: Stanley Katz, President, The American Council of Learned Societies "Constructing the Humanities Community for the Digital Age" 10:30 to 11 am coffee break [location] 11 am to 5:30 pm software demonstrations, Corwin East posters, book and vendor displays 11 am to 12:30 pm Sessions 1-A and 1-B Session 1-A, 11 am to 12:30 pm [location] Computational lexicons, corpora Chair: [name and affiliation] Mining COMLEX for Syntactic Data: An On-line Dictionary as a Resource for Research in Syntax for Linguists at Large Catherine Macleod, Adam Meyers, and Ralph Grishman, New York University Constructing A Knowledge Base for Describing the General Semantics of Verbs Sophie Daubeze, IRIT-CNRS, URACOM Parc Technologique du canal; Patrick Saint-Dizier, IRIT-CNRS; Palmira Marrafa The Corpus and the Citation Archive--Peaceful Coexistence Between the Best and the Good? Christian-Emil Ore, University of Oslo Session 1-B, 11 am to 12:30 pm [location] Stylistics Chair: [name and affiliation] Mapping the "Other Harmony" of Prose: A Computer Analysis of John Dryden's Prose Style Mary Mallery, The Center for Electronic Texts in the Humanities Neural Network Applications in Stylometry: The Federalist Papers F. J. Tweedie, S. Singh, and D.I. Holmes, University of the West of England, Bristol Language and Style in Golding's _The Inheritors_: An Eclectic, Computer-Assisted Approach David L. Hoover, New York University 12:30 to 2 pm lunch 2 to 3:30 pm Sessions 2-A and 2-B Session 2-A, 2 to 3:30 pm [location] Panel Chair: Nancy Ide, Vassar College The Information Superhighway and the Humanities: Will Our Needs Be Met? Charles Henry, Vassar College; Nancy Ide, Vassar College; Stanley Katz, The American Council of Learned Societies; Elli Mylonas, Brown University Session 2-B, 2 to 3:30 pm [location] Linguistics (software) Chair: [name and affiliation] Behind the Scenes: Building a Tool for Verb Classification in French Rachel Panckhurst, Universite Paul Valery, Montpellier III From Linguistic Resources to Applications With the ZStation: A New Approach to Linguistic Engineering in Research and Teaching Henri C. Zingle, LILLA, University of Nice The Linguistic Postprocessor of SCRIPT: A System for the Recognition of Handwritten Input Using Linguistic and Statistical Filter Mechanisms as well as a Crossword Lexicon Bettina Harriehausen-Muhlbauer, IBM Germany, Science Center 3:30 to 4 pm coffee break [location] 4 to 5:30 pm Sessions 3-A, 3-B, and 3-C Session 3-A, 4 to 5:30 pm [location] Panel Chair: [name and affiliation] Collaboration Between Humanities Scholars and Computer Professionals John Unsworth (moderator), John Dobbins, Susan Gants, Jerome McGann, and Thornton Staples, Institute for Advanced Technology in the Humanities(IATH), University of Virginia Session 3-B, 4 to 5:30 pm [location] Encoding issues Chair: [name and affiliation] You Can't Always Get What You Want: Deep Encoding of Manuscripts and the Limits of Retrieval Michael Neuman, Georgetown University Using the TEI to Encode Textual Variations: Some Practical Considerations Gregory Murphy, The Center for Electronic Texts in the Humanities Implementing the TEI's Feature-Structure Markup by Direct Mapping to the Objects and Attributes of an Object-Oriented Database System Gary F. Simons, Summer Institute of Linguistics Session 3-C, 4 to 5:30 pm UCSB Demonstrations [to be announced] 6 pm ACH open meeting [location] 8 pm Text Encoding Initiative (TEI) [location] open session Thursday, July 13 ----------------- 9 am to 5:30 pm software demonstrations, Corwin East posters, book and vendor displays 9 to 10:30 am Sessions 4-A and 4-B Session 4-A, 9 to 10:30 am [location] Panel Chair: [name and affiliation] The Information Superhighway and the Humanities: An International Perspective Jane Rosenberg, NEH; [other panelists and affiliations] Session 4-B, 9 to 10:30 am [location] Computer Assisted Instruction Chair: [name and affiliation] Architext: A Hypertext Application for Architectural History Instruction Mark R. Petersen, Clarkson University Teaching Critical Thinking with Interactive Courseware: An Experiment in Evaluation Jill LeBlanc and Geoffrey M. Rockwell, McMaster University Watching Scepticism: Computer Assisted Visualization and Hume's _Dialogues_ Geoffrey M. Rockwell, McMaster University; John Bradley, University of Toronto 10:30 to 11 am coffee break [location] 11 am to 12:30 pm Sessions 5-A and 5-B Session 5-A, 11 am to 12:30 pm [location] Internet, World Wide Web, Hypertext Chair: [name and affiliation] TACT & WWW: Argument and Evidence on the Internet John D. Bradley, University of Toronto; Geoffrey M. Rockwell, McMaster University Art History and the Internet Michael Greenhalgh, Australian National University The Labyrinth, the World Wide Web, and the Development of Disciplinary Servers in the Humanities Deborah Everhart and Martin Irvine, Georgetown University Session 5-B, 11 am to 12:30 pm [location] Annotation Chair: [name and affiliation] Man-Machine Cooperation in Syntactic Annotation Hans van Halteren, University of Nijmegen Man vs. Machine--Which is the Most Reliable Annotator? Gunnel Kallgren, Stockholm University Standards in Morphosyntax: Towards a Ready-to-Use Package Nicoletta Calzolari and Monica Monachini, Istituto di Linguistica Computazionale (CNR), Pisa 12:30 to 2 pm lunch 2 pm to 3:30 pm, Sessions 6-A and 6-B Session 6-A, 2 pm to 3:30 pm [location] Project session Chair: [name and affiliation] ACCORD: a New Approach to Digital Resource Development Using the Testbed Method Mary Keeler, University of Washington; Christian Kloesel, Indiana University Yearning to be Hypertext: The Cornell Wordsworth and the Limits of the Codex Bruce Graver, Providence College The Shakespeare Multimedia Project: An Exploration in Constructivist Pedagogy Leslie D. Harris, Susquehanna University Session 6-B, 2 pm to 3:30 pm [location] Text Databases Chair: [name and affiliation] Problems of Multidatabase Construction for Linguistic and Literary Research Richard Giordano and Carole Goble, University of Manchester; Gunnel Kallgren, Stockholm University A Data Architecture for Multi-lingual Linguistic Corpora Nancy Ide, Vassar College; Jean Veronis, Laboratoire Parole et Langage, CNRS, Aix-en-Provence; David Durand, Boston University On the Text Based Database Systems for Public Service Shoichiro Hara and Hisashi Yasunaga, National Institute of Japanese Literature 3:30 to 4 pm coffee break [location] 4 to 5:30 pm, Sessions 7-A, 7-B, and 7-C Session 7-A, 4 to 5:30 pm [location] Panel Chair: [name and affiliation] Model Editions Partnership Panel David R. Chesnutt, University of South Carolina; Ann D. Gordon, Rutgers University; C. M. Sperberg-McQueen, University of Illinois at Chicago Session 7-B, 4 to 5:30 pm [location] Translation, computational lexicography Chair: [name and affiliation] The Terminology of Bioenergy: A Project in Progress Lisa Lena Opas, University of Joensuu LOCOLEX: The Translation Rolls Off Your Tongue Daniel Bauer, Fridirique Segond, and Annie Zaenen, RANK XEROX Research Centre Parallel Corpora, Translation Equivalence and Contrastive Linguistics Raphael Salkie, University of Brighton Session 7-C, 4 to 5:30 pm UCSB Demonstrations [to be announced] 6 pm ALLC open meeting [location] Friday, July 14 --------------- 9 am to 5:30 pm software demonstrations, [location] posters, book and vendor displays 9 to 10:30 am, Sessions 8-A and 8-B Session 8-A, 9 to 10:30 am [location] Special session: Humanities Computing Support Chair: Espen Ore, University of Bergen World Bank Support for the Development of Foreign Language Education at Lajos Kossuth University, Debrecen, Hungary Laszlo Hunyadi, Lajos Kossuth University Application of Computers in Language Training in the Post-Soviet Ukraine Peter I. Serdiukov, Kiev State Linguistic University Creating a Multi-Lingual Hypertext: A CSCW Project in the Humanities Catherine Scott, University of North London Session 8-B, 9 to 10:30 am [location] Word studies, statistics Chair: [name and affiliation] Experiments in Word Creation Michael Levison and Greg Lessard, Queen's University, Kingston, Ontario A Multivariate Test for the Attribution of Authorship F.J. Tweedie, University of the West of England, Bristol; C. A. Donnelly, University of Edinburgh The Randomness Assumption in Word Frequency Statistics R. Harald Baayen, Max Planck Institute for Psycholinguistics, Nijmegen, The Netherlands 10:30 to 11 am coffee break [location] 11 am to 12:30 pm, Sessions 9-A and 9-B Session 9-A, 11 am to 12:30 pm [location] Panel Chair: [name and affiliation] Electronic Resources for Literary Studies Kathryn Sutherland, Nottingham University; Lou Burnard and Alan Morrison, Oxford University Computing Services Session 9-B, 11 am to 12:30 pm [location] Corpus Linguistics Chair: [name and affiliation] Perception Nouns in the Italian Reference Corpus: Argument Structure and Collocational Uses Adriana Roventini and Monica Monachini, Istituto di Linguistica Computazionale (CNR), Pisa Investigating Verbal Transitions with P.R.O.U.S.T. Tony Jappy, University of Perpignan A Corpus-Based Study of Nonfinite and Verbless Adverbial Clauses in English Magnus Ljung, Stockholm University 12:30 to 2 pm lunch 2 to 3:30 pm, Sessions 10-A and 10-B Session 10-A, 2 to 3:30 pm [location] Authorship attribution Chair: [name and affiliation] Word-Type at "Sentence" Beginning and End: A Reliable Discriminator of Authorship of Latin Prose Texts? Bernard Frischer, University of California, Los Angeles Wordprinting Francis Bacon Noel B. Reynolds and John L. Hilton, Brigham Young University The "Federalist" Revisited: New Directions in Authorship Attribution David Holmes, University of the West of England, Bristol Session 10-B, 2 to 3:30 pm [location] Literature, Literary Theory Chair: [name and affiliation] Categories, Theory, and Literary Texts Paul A. Fortier, University of Manitoba Tracing the Narrator: Parenthesis and Point-of-View in Joseph Conrad's _Heart of Darkness_. Thomas Rommel, University of Tuebingen The Perception of Biblical Texts in Modern Literature, Illustrated by the Lyric Poetry of Christine Busta Susanne Bucher-Gillmayr, University of Innsbruck, Austria 3:30 to 4 pm coffee break 4 to 5 pm Discussion Groups 1 and 2 Discussion Group 1, 4 to 5 pm [location] The Future of HUMANIST Willard McCarty, University of Toronto (discussion leader) Discussion Group 2, 4 to 5 pm [location] Perspectives on the Need for Behavioral Change in the Humanities: Response to the Information Age Mary Keeler, University of Washington (discussion leader) 6 pm beach barbecue Goleta Beach Saturday, July 15 ----------------- 9 to 10:30 am Sessions 11-A and 11-B Session 11-A, 9 to 10:30 am [location] Hypertext, Text Editing Chair: [name and affiliation] Screen and Page: Some Questions of Design in Electronic Editions Michael Best, University of Victoria, British Columbia Translation Project for Vincent of Beauvais' _Speculum Naturale_ Carol Everest, King's University College, Edmonton, Alberta; Caroline Falkner, Queen's University, Kingston, Ontario; Kevin Roddy, University of California, Davis Text, Hypertext or Cybertext--A Typology of Textual Modes Using Correspondence Analysis Espen Aarseth, University of Bergen Session 11-B, 9 to 10:30 am [location] Linguistics, corpora Chair: [name and affiliation] Maestro2: An Object-Oriented Approach to Structured Linguistic Data Greg Lessard, Queen's University, Kingston, Ontario; Colin Gajraj, Bell Northern Research, Ottawa; Ian Macleod, Queen's University, Kingston, Ontario A Program for Aligning English and Norwegian Sentences Knut Hofland, The Norwegian Computing Centre for the Humanities Contractions in ARCHER: Register and Diachronic Change Joe Allen, University of Southern California 10:30 to 11 am coffee break [location] 11 to 11:30am closing session [location] Remarks: Nancy Ide, President, ACH; Susan Hockey, Chairman, ALLC; Espen Ore, ALLC, Local Organizer, ALLC/ACH '96, University of Bergen 12 noon to 1 pm lunch 1 to 5:30 pm winery tour [departing from] Demonstrations -------------- (See separate schedule) Cinema Studies and Interactivity: A Multimedia Computer Model Robert Kolker, University of Maryland CoALA-An Intelligent System for Language Acquisition Combining Various Modern NLPTtechnologies Bettina Harriehausen-Muhlbauer, IBM Germany, Science Center SHAXICON--Mapping Shakespeare's "Rare Words" Across the Canon Don Foster, Vassar College Computerizing the Buddhist Scriptures Supachai Tangwongsan, Mahidol University Computing Center, Thailand ADMYTE, A Digital Archive of Spanish Manuscripts and Texts Charles Faulhaber, University of California, Berkeley SYNTPARSE, For Parsing English Texts SYNTCHECK, For Orthographical and Grammatical Spell-Checking of English Texts SOFTHESAURUS, An English Electronic Thesaurus LINGUATERM, A Multilingual (English, German, French, Spanish) Electronic Thesaurus of Linguistic Terminology GEOATLAS, A Multilingual (English, German, French, Italian) Electronic Thesaurus of Related Place Names Hristo Georgiev-Good, Good Language Software, Switzerland TUSTEP: A Scholarly Tool for Literary and Linguistic Analysis Winfried Bader, University of Tuebingen From Linguistic Resources to Applications with the ZStation: A New Approach to Linguistic Engineering in Research and Teaching Henri C. Zingle, LILLA, University of Nice OrigENov: Integration of Multimedia into the Teaching of Comparative Literature at Luton University Clementine Burnley, Barbara Heins, and Carlota Larrea, University of Luton Posters ------- (See separate schedule) Bringing SGML and TACT Together: sgml2tdb John Bradley, University of Toronto NEACH Guide to World Wide Web Heyward Ehrlich, Rutgers University The Provenance of Christian Doctrine, attributed to John Milton: An Evaluation of Alternative Statistical Methods F.J. Tweedie, University of the West of England, Bristol; T. Corns, University of Wales, Bangor; J. Hale, University of Otago; G. Campbell, University of Leicester; D.I. Holmes, University of the West of England, Bristol Developing an Electronic _Thesaurus Linguae Latinae_ Ann F. DeVito, University of Saskatchewan, Consortium for Latin Lexicography A PROLOG Approach to Montesquieu Pauline Kra, Yeshiva University From Text to Test--Automatically: A Computer System for Deriving an English Language Test from a Text David Coniam, Chinese University of Hong Kong An Integrated Multimedia Network for Scholarly Discovery, Pedagogical Authoring, and Professional Presentation in the Field of Music Peter G. Otto, University of California, San Diego; Nancy B. Nuzzo and Michael Long, State University of New York at Buffalo APL-Simulation for I Ching Hexagrams' Order Explanation Pavel Luksha, Russia A Minimalist View on Binding and Language Acquisition Lily Grozeva, Bulgarian Academy of Sciences/Groningen University OrigENov: Integration of Multimedia into the Teaching of Comparative Literature at Luton University Clementine Burnley, Barbara Heins, and Carlota Larrea, University of Luton ******************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 16:27:52 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Nedrow Subject: Re. cookbook indexes I agree with the aspersions cast on cookbook indexes. I own a few hundred cookbooks with scrumptious recipes that I can never locate when I need them. One day--okay, I had a little too much time on my hands--I took the biggest book (357 pp.), also the worst offender, and indexed the fruit recipes by key ingredient. (I'd recently picked two flats of strawberries that I needed process.) The recipes had been indexed under general main headings, with subheadings being the recipe titles, that is Fantastic Fruits Fresh Peach Muffins Quick Berry Cobbler Not very user-friendly! These recipes are now located under "peaches" and "berries" in my supplemental index. I have a dream of doing a master index of favorite recipes from my entire cookbook collection. Or I may just get a life. BTW, I'm a recent addition to the list, and have enjoyed reading the lively discussions. I've been indexing for several years. Sue N. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 16:35:41 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Larry Harrison Subject: Bounced Posts Hey folks, Getting a bad bounce back from a post does not mean you should re-post to INDEX-L. Just means that somebody couldn't be reached; the rest of us got it, trust me! Still in doubt? Add REP to your subscription, and you will get a copy of your own post. Larry Harrison ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 17:20:53 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Horowitz Subject: replies to In May 1995 I posted the following message to both Index-L and th= e AOL indexing folder. I received a total of nine replies from both postin= gs. At the same time, I received numerous requests to summarize or re-post t= he replies so others could read them. After soliciting some advice on this from both services, I obtain= ed permission from all the contributors to redistribute their responses via Index-L and the AOL indexing folder. I have, of course, deleted names, locations, and any identifying factors from each individual reply. Below is a copy of my original message as it appeared on both Ind= ex-L and the AOL indexing folder. The text from each of the nine replies follo= ws. Thank you to all the people who shared their comments and experie= nces with me and who graciously agreed to the redistribution of their messages= =2E To those of you who requested copies of this information, I hope this present posting is useful. Lynn Horowitz Albany, New York (LQHorowitz) -------------------- ORIGINAL MESSAGE -------------------- I am a relatively new indexer and rather than trying to establish my own private practice at this time, I am exploring the possibility of working part-time as a (long-distance) assistant to other indexers. I am thinkin= g along the lines of providing temporary assistance, on an "as needed" basi= s, to other indexers. As an indexer, have you ever hired an assistant to help you finish a proj= ect? Or have you ever wished that you could find someone to take on some of th= e routine aspects of a particular job, leaving you free to handle the rest = of the index and meet your deadline? (For example: entering names of cited= authors, or items in tables, or glossary words; vetting a manuscript; etc= =2E) Is this a genuine need of indexers? What are the drawbacks for the index= er? Could this work long-distance? What would you be looking for in an assistant? For purposes of this discussion, let me give you a little background information about myself. I have taken the USDA correspondence course an= d have had a few paid projects. I use professional indexing software and m= y computer equipment includes a fax/modem. I'd appreciate any feedback on this idea, either here on the AOL indexing= message board or e-mail me directly. Thanks for your interest! -------------------- REPLIES -------------------- #1 Good question! I recently began using an assistant. Like you, she= has completed the USDA course. She is currently taking the second USDA index= ing course. I'm sure that some other indexers also use assistants, and I hope= they will also respond to your questions here. Here are my responses: > Is this a genuine need of indexers? Certainly. Busy indexers often have to turn down jobs, and some indexers= have no objection to referring a client to another professional indexer. Also, when a client's schedules slip into the indexer's time slot for ano= ther client (resulting in colliding deadlines), the indexer may need assistanc= e to keep both clients happy. > What are the drawbacks for the indexer? The biggest drawback for the indexer is finding the time to "manage" the project, maintain records and W-9 forms (which the assistant should sign)= for tax purposes; handling other paperwork, taking the time to keep the assis= tant informed of new developments with the project; copying/faxing/shipping wo= rk to the assistant; etc. In other words, the indexer must handle a lot of administrative tasks. > Could this work long-distance? Certainly. > What would you be looking for in an assistant? The assistant I currently have is a real gem ... so I would probably use = her as a benchmark for selecting any other assistants I might need in the fut= ure. The qualities I like best about her include the fact that she has taken t= he USDA course (which seems to have provided her with good indexing skills);= she has an excellent eye for editing; she can "imitate" my indexing style (so= the client can't even tell that two different indexers worked on the documentation); she *listens* well and does exactly what I ask her to do;= she's not afraid to ask questions, but she doesn't take up my time with unnecessary questions; she does a great job of proofreading her work befo= re she gives it to me; she's eager to learn as much as she can from me; her= computer equipment & software is similar to mine, and (last, but not leas= t!) she has a delightful personality. I'm sure that any indexers who might be interested in using an assistant would want to know: (1) what is your educational background & experience= ?; (2) what type of indexing do you want to do?; (3) can you provide samples= of your work? #2 I think many a busy indexer would appreciate the services of anoth= er experienced indexer willing to help on a job, whether it be by entering/i= ndex author names, glossary terms, whatever, there's definitely a need there. As you suspected, there are always author indexes (also called na= me indexes) to be done, that you could easily market yourself for, either to= publishers or to other indexers. (I've subcontracted locally for author indexes for books that I am also doing the subject index.) Not to mention= indexing glossaries,or even simply vetting manuscripts. You might also wa= nt to consider proofreading. #3 I think that it is a good idea and once I was actually approached = by someone to proofread indexes as an indexer's assistant. I had directly contacted 25 indexers in order to get such an offer. Another good way is= to meet people at ASI meetings. I use family members as my indexing assista= nts. #4 There are times when I could use an assistant, but the time constraints usually don't allow for it. I tried hiring someone to proofr= ead once and it didn't work out. The software manuals that I specialize in a= re crammed full of unusual spellings. By the time I have created the index,= I am pretty familiar with all of them. A proofreader would have to start c= old and do a page-by-page verification. One thing I would dearly like, though I'm afraid it's too tedious= to be bearable, is for someone to check page numbers. I would give a page-sequence list and the assistant would verify that the page numbers a= re correct. Also, I often do a lot of work in first proofs then receive sec= ond proofs to which I need to transfer all my markup and marginal notes. I w= ould like someone to do that, but again, time constraints don't allow it. #5 I too usually rope my family into helping out. I have farmed out keyboarding for a periodical index that required a Main Entry followed by= full bibliographic citations to pertinent articles. For this particular= index, I find ProCite more efficient than Macrex. Getting someone else t= o keyboard in the numerous authors and lengthy technical titles was very helpful. I could then concentrate on the index terms. Other family assistance has been in the form of author indexes an= d technical advice on earth science / environmental subjects. I once worked on a 1000 page proceedings where the work was shared by tw= o indexers. We each were responsible for entire sections which pretty much= kept subject terms consistent--not much of a problem anyway because the b= ook had been superbly edited for stylistic consistency among the many, many authors. Since we shared an office, we were able to consult whenever questions of cross-references came up. Without that constant immediate contact, I think that sharing the indexing work on single book could tur= n into a nightmare Not mentioned earlier, I don=92t think, is occasional employment = of child labor. Before the days of pre-formatted disks, I would hire the 9-y= ear old girl next door to format disks and apply labels. She did some other o= dd jobs of similar nature too. We kept track of her time and calculated her salary (minimum wage) together. She then was paid by business check (the = real thing!). Each check was proudly displayed on her refrigerator for a few d= ays for showing off to friends until her mother could persuade her to cash it= =2E = #6 I just wanted to let you know that what you are seeking is possibl= e. I am doing vetting and easy indexing on a subcontractor basis. Are you a me= mber of ASI (how many times have you been asked that)? Their directory has a geographical breakdown that you could utilize to find other freelance indexers in your area. I also work as an abstractor/indexer for a scienti= fic journal publisher, they usually run ads under editor/editorial in the classifieds. Sorry if you've already heard this, but sometimes it's nice = to know that what you want to do IS possible. I often get work by mail, by the way. One of my jobs is about an = hour away. I go there about once every couple of months, and the rest of the t= ime I mail papers in and fax in my bill. This is for an indexing / abstractin= g job, however. Other jobs are local, within 10-15 min. #7 Interesting that you should have come up with the idea of long-distance assisting in indexing. I had exactly that relationship for more than six years with an assistant whom I trained as an indexer when we lived in the same town. Af= ter I moved away, we kept on working together for five more years. She took o= n increasing responsibilities over that time, and I increased her pay accordingly. Basically, the last few years our system was as follows: I w= ould obtain a project from a client and give the pages a quick review to check= for particular problems/eccentricities. I'd ask the client to send my assista= nt a set of pages as well. I'd call her to discuss the project and set a sched= ule. She would then mark up and enter everything, calling me if she had any questions. She would then Fedex me the marked-up pages and a floppy disk = with the index file. I'd load the disk into my machine, copy the index to my h= ard disk, then edit the index, referring to the marked up pages as needed to resolve questions/problems. Sometimes I'd call her to resolve a question.= I would then return the project to the client, bill the client, and divide = the fee with my assistant. From a business point of view, there are two key issues: first, w= e had a written agreement that she was working as an independent contractor= , not a part-time employee. Second, she had to be willing to work for a percentage (80% in the last year or so of our collaboration) of our fee--otherwise I couldn't have afforded to work with her. She also had to= be available to work long hours on a tight schedule on an occasional (as-nee= ded) basis. Obviously, she had to be someone whose work I could trust. Since = I had trained her, I knew what her strong and weak points were. And I coul= d trust her to deliver acceptable work to me on time. This was crucial, sin= ce if she had let me down, I would have lost credibility with the client. In short, I think what you want to do is perfectly feasible, but = bear in mind that you won't make as much as you would on your own and that indexing is not a high-paying career anyway. #8 Regarding your question, yes, indexers need assistants. But I recommend working with someone locally rather than long-distance because = of deadlines, need for conferring regularly until you are both sure you work= well together, and that sort of thing. Also, the cost of duplicating page= s and mailing them can eat up a lot of the "profit" in an indexing job. I have worked successfully with 2 trainees, and many other index= ers have also had assistants. You might want to ask among the members of you= r local chapter of ASI. I would recommend that as a reasonable starting po= int. #9 I've never had an assistant. I'm at the point where I'm consideri= ng getting either an assistant or a typist. An assistant as I see it would = be a local person who would be interested in learning to index and begin with = very limited assignments and progress upward. More of an apprenticeship. I k= now of people who have done apprenticeships via long distance and it worked. = I think I'd find it hard. A typist, on the other hand, would be helpful on= ly in a more limited way, but easier to find than an apprentice. Someone might be hesitant because of the hassles of explaining wh= at is needed, of giving feedback, of trust of an unknown person as far as reliability, considering people's tight deadlines on work. Distance in moving work back and forth isn't too much of a problem. With faxes and Fe= dEx for overnight delivery, that can be overcome to a large degree. I think = the face-to-face contact needed to establish a relationship and the question = of reliability would be the two key things that would be difficult at first.= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 17:21:24 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Robinson Subject: LITA Internet Rooms at ALA Chicago The attached text is from the LITA Internet Room Flyer. Please note that the hours in this message are the correct hours. There are some missprints in other information. Please excuse any duplications as this will be cross-posted to a number of lists. CEO document contents: WELCOME TO THE INTERNET ROOM, VERSION 3.0 Attention Internet Surfers!!!! We've added NEW! FRESH! TASTY! revisions this year! There are now THREE, count them, THREE, different ways to enjoy, explore, utilize, browse our rooms: The Internet Room, The Email Annex, and the Demo Room The Internet Room Center of McCormick Place Exhibit Hall OPEN: Saturday, 9am-4pm; Sunday, 9am-5pm; Monday, 9am-5pm; Tuesday, 9am-3pm STAFFED: During Exhibit Hours Here's the place for newcomers and seasoned Internet veterans alike. You can explore the Internet and World Wide Web using web browsers on both Macintosh and IBM computers. Try out this vast world of networked information. 'Surf the Net'...Ask questions....Browse. Browse our Reference Library. We have a large collection of Internet-related materials at your fingertips. Vendors have supplied copies of the latest books on the Internet and your fellow librarians have contributed copies of their favorite resources. Grab a bibliography to take with you. The E-Mail Annex Registration Area of the Convention Center Lobby OPEN: 24 hours STAFFED: Limited staffing during exhibit hours If you just want to check your e-mail, this is a great place to come. If you have the telnet address of your home computer, you can quickly log in and see what morsels of mail await you. We have Macs and PCs available. The Internet Demo Room: Room E251C OPEN: During Exhibit hours; presentations run periodically throughout the conference Check posted schedule for times and topics. STAFFED Volunteer Presenters Drop in here to see regularly scheduled demonstrations of Internet tools, subject-based demonstrations and many other topics. BE SURE TO FILL OUT THE ATTACHED EVALUATION FORM. HELP US TO IMPROVE THE INTERNET ROOM! THANK YOU FOR VISITING THE INTERNET ROOM 3.0!! 6/95 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 17:28:20 CDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jennifer Comeau Subject: Re: ACH/ALLC '95 program When posting announcements of this sort (ESPECIALLY huge ones), it's always nice to say up front what the acronyms stand for. That way, uniterested parties may not need to start reading in the announcement to try to figure out the topic of the conference. Jennifer L. Comeau Assistant Project Editor University of Nebraska Press jcomeau@unlinfo.unl.edu (402) 472-7703 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 18:51:57 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: ASI Colorado Chapter Meeting Our next meeting will be an opportunity for all of us to get to know each other a little better. Here's the scoop: DATE: Saturday, June 17, 1995 TIME: 10 AM: Board meeting 11 AM: Tour of new library!!! Noon: General meeting PLACE: Denver Central Library 4th Floor Meeting Room 10 W. 14th Ave. Parkway, Denver PARKING: $2.25 (all day), 13th & Broadway FOOD: Bring your sack lunch & beverage TOPICS: '95 ASI Annual Conference '96 ASI Annual Conference (in Denver!!!) 1995 Rocky Mountain Fall Indexing Conference, proposed agenda Schmoozing! Anyone interested in indexing is invited to join us for the tour of the new Denver Public Library and the general meeting. All ASI members are invited to attend the Board meeting as well. Lori Lathrop ************************************************************************* Lathrop Media Services, P.O. Box 3065, Idaho Springs, CO 80452 INTERNET:76620.456@compuserve.com or LMLathrop@aol.com ************************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 20:45:43 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia D Bertelsen Subject: Indexers in Virginia I am a beginning indexer (I studied under Dr. Virgil Diodato at UW-Milwaukee) and a librarian who will soon be moving to Blacksburg, VA. Consequently, I would be most interested in making contact with any indexers in the area. Because of previous education and life experience, my major areas of subject expertise include medicine, history, cooking, library science, and Latin American studies. I look forward to hearing from anyone out there in the Blue Ridge and environs. Cindy Bertelsen SLIS UW-Milwaukee cbertel@csd.uwm.edu