========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 10:07:27 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lawrenc846@aol.com Subject: Fees in 1996 Writer's Market ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I thought that the following information, on page 49 of the 1996 Writer's Market, might be of interest. The reference is to book indexing. Indexing- $15-40 per hour; charge higher hourly rate if using computer indexing software programs that take fewer hours; $1.50-6 per printed book page; 40-70 cents per line of index; or flat fee of $250-500, depending on length. L. H. Feldman Lawrenc846@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 10:07:44 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dwight Walker Subject: Australian Society of Indexers Newsletter abstracts on Web site ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- AusSI Newsletter Abstracts Jan/Feb 1994- The abstracts have been moved from the Georgia Southern University gopher to the AusSI Web site: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi/newslett.htm This is accessible via the main home page too: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi Many thanks to Julian Ariail who maintained it for us for the last 2 years over there in the USA. It is much easier and quicker to edit and update it from here. Julian is glad to see the Australian and American Society of Indexers Web sites take off and looks forward to them prospering too. Cheers Dwight AusSI ---------------------------------------------------------- Dwight Walker, Sydney, Australia tel +61-2-3986726 (h) +61-2-4393750 (w), fax (work) +61-2-4383729 My Home Page: http://www.zeta.org.au/~dwalker AusSI Home Page: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 10:07:59 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Sonsie C. Conroy" Subject: Re: Is location important? In-Reply-To: <199510131947.MAA04601@callamer.com> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Lynn, just a week or so ago, I was sound asleep at 1:00 AM when the phone rang four times and then stopped. It was either a wrong number, or someone was leaving a message on the machine. Since just the week previous we had been awakened at a similarly ungodly hour with bad news about a family member, I dashed downstairs (well, "stumbled" would be more like it) only to discover that it was a FAX from an author, regarding the index sample I had sent him. The cover letter apologized for sending it at that hour, and hoped that I had my ringer turned off. Well, I didn't. Even though my office phone and home phone are different, and even though the office phone doesn't ring in my bedroom, a little consideration would be in order. (BTW, the happy ending was that the author loved the final product, and especially appreciated my having offered to send him the first two indexed chapters as a sample so he could be sure I was working to his parameters. A sample can sometimes be a godsend.) |==========| | Sonsie | |==========| ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 10:08:11 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nan Badgett <76400.3351@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: SPAM ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I still consider myself an INTERNET novice, so you can let me know how naive this sounds. What if everyone simply ignored these messages? It seems to me that the SPAMERS want reactions, and if they got none, would they quit? I often delete messages with subjects such as UNSUBSCRIBE or MAGAZINE SUBSCRIPTION before I even download. Then I don't spend time and energy reading them or getting upset about them. Just a thought, Nan Badgett Word-a-bil-i-ty ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 10:08:25 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julius Ariail Subject: Index-L gopherized archives complete through 9/95 ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- The archived files of Index-L for September '95 have been added to the Index-L directory on the Georgia Southern gopher. There was a slight delay caused by the *massive* size of the September files, but all is well now. The complete set of Index-L messages from the list's start in 1992 to date are available here, along with a WAIS search program for keyword searching. This gopher directory area is directly accessible from the ASI and AusSI homepages on the WWW, or by pointing your WWW or gopher browser toward gopher.gasou.edu. Follow this gopher directory path: Georgia Southern University / Henderson Library / Other organizations / Index-L. Those of you without browser access can telnet directly to gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu, use the public login (INFO), and then look for the gopher program on the our main information services menu. Julius - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Julius Ariail, University Librarian jariail@gasou.edu Box 8074 Georgia Southern University Voice (912) 681-5115 Statesboro, GA 30460 USA Fax (912) 681-0093 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 10:08:52 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: CASTARK@delphi.com Subject: Thank you ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Thanks to those who responded to my question about location. It was the first message I've sent to a listserv, and I appreciated the responses-- they were thoughful and encouraging. I've been lurking for quite awhile and want to say to everyone, that this seems like a remarkable group of people because of your willingness to share information and offer support. It's very different from some of my recent real world experiences of late, and I'm grateful that such a place as this exists. Caroline Stark, recent MLS ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 15:57:47 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Subject: FAQ--new info on internet sites, moderator's address, gopher address. ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- INDEX-L FAQ Contents: 1. Index-l procedures 2. Archives 3. Books on indexing 4. What has been written about automatic indexing? 5. What software do indexers use? 6. Courses or training for indexers (outside of library schools)? 7. Professional societies/organizations for indexers? 8. Network connections 9. Internet Sites 10.Winners of the ASI/H.W. Wilson Company Award for Indexing 1. INDEX-L PROCEDURES There are three addresses you need to use for interaction with index-l: To take part in a discussion or send a message to the list (a.k.a. group or subscribers), address your e-mail to index-l@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu To send a message directly to the moderator (a.k.a. Charlotte), address your e-mail to cskuster@library.lib.binghamton.edu or Skuster@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu To send a command to the listserv, address your e-mail to listserv@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu. As subscribers, you are able to send commands to the listserv to see the archives, see a list of subscribers, stop your mail for a while, or a number of other options. To get a list of listserv commands and what they do, send the following message to the listserv: INFO REFCARD Do not sign your name or put anything else in the message. 2. ARCHIVES There are two ways to look at the archives: ---Received directly from the listserv@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu Send the following message to the listserv: index index-l. You will receive a list of available archives. When you decide what you would like to see, send the following message to the listserv: get log9510a (for the first week in October,for example) ---On the library gopher at Georgia Southern University: Messages are stored here from the start of the listserv in 1992 through the most recent preceding month. A WAIS searching program is available to search through all years at once or through a selected year. The GSU gopher is located through a gopher client at gopher.gasou.edu or by telnet to gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu. public login (INFO), and then look for the gopher program on the the main information services menu. When you reach the gopher take this directory path: /Georgia Southern University/Henderson Library/Other Organizations/Index-L 3. BOOKS ON INDEXING? Bonura, L. The Art of Indexing. Wiley, 1994 Knight, G. N. Indexing, The Art Of. Allen & Unwin, 1979. Lancaster, F. W. Indexing and Abstracting in Theory and Practice. U of Illinois Press, 1991. Lancaster, F. W. Vocabulary Control for Information Retrieval, 2nd ed. Information resources Press, 1986 Mulvany, Nancy C. Indexing Books, University of Chicago Press, 1994. Wellisch, H. Indexing and Abstracting, an International Bibliography ABC-Clio, 1980. Wellisch, H. Indexing from A to Z. H. W. Wilson, 1991. 4. WHAT HAS BEEN WRITTEN ABOUT AUTOMATIC INDEXING? Books: Grefenstette, G. Explorations in Automatic Thesaurus Discovery, Kluwer, 1994 Salton and McGill Introduction to Modern Information Retrieval Salton, Automatic Text Processing Van Rijsbergen Information Retrieval Jones, Karen Spark Information Retrieval Experiment Papers: Bell, C. and Jones, K. "Back-of-the-book Indexing: A Case for the Application of Artificial Intelligence", Informatics 5, ASLIB Pub., pp. 155-161, 1979 Bennion, B. "Performance Testing of a Book and its Index as an Information Retrieval System", JASIS, pp. 265-270, July 1970 Borko, H. "Experiments in Book Indexing by Computer" Information Storage and Retrieval, 6:5)16, 1970 Dillon, M. and McDonald, J. "Fully Automatic Book Indexing" Journal of Documentation 39(1):135-154, 1983 Dion, M. Thesaurus-Based Automatic Book Indexing", Information Processing and Management, 81(4):167-178, 1982 Salton, G. "Syntactic Approaches to Automatic Book Indexing", Proceedings of the 26th ACL, pp. 204-210, 1988 5. WHAT SOFTWARE DO INDEXERS USE? (All of these are for DOS machines...no Macs) IN>SORT Kensa Software P.O. Box 4415 Northbrook, IL 60065 (708) 559-0297 Macrex Bayside Indexing Service P.O. Box 3051 Daly City, CA 95015-0051 (415) 756-0821 FAX: (415) 757-1567 Cindex Indexing Research Box 18609 Rochester, New (716) 461-5530 FAX: (716) 442-3924 See additional software listings on the ASI Web page: http://www.well.com/user/asi 6. COURSES OR TRAINING FOR INDEXERS (OUTSIDE OF LIBRARY SCHOOLS)? Graduate School of the USDA Correspondence Programs, Ag Box 9911 Room 1114, South Agriculture Building 14th St. and Independence Ave. SW Washington, DC 20250 (202) 720-7123 TDD: (202) 690-1516 Tuition: (includes all materials) $281,00--Basic Indexing (beginning) $275.00--Applied Indexing (more advanced) 7. PROFESSIONAL SOCIETIES/ORGANIZATIONS FOR INDEXERS? (this question was not actually asked..but here's the answer anyway) American Society of Indexers (ASI) P.O. Box 386 Port Aransas TX 78373 (512) 749-4052 FAX: (512) 749-6334 E-Mail: asi@well.sf.ca.us Indexing and Abstracting Society of Canada Box 744 Station F Toronto Ontario Canada M4Y 2N6 National Federation of Abstracting and Information Services (NFAIS) 1518 Walnut Street Suite 307 Philadelphia PA 19102-3403 (215) 893-1561 FAX: (215) 893-1564 E-MAIL: nfais@hslc.org Society of Indexers (SI) 16 Green Road Birchington, England CT79JZ Australian Society of Indexers (AusSI) GPO Box 1251L, Melbourne Victoria 3001, Australia 8. NETWORK CONNECTIONS America Online (800) 227-6364 CompuServe (800) 848-8199 Delphi (800) 495-4005 GEnie (800) 638-9636 The Well (415) 332-4335 Real/Time Communications (512) 459-4391 See also. Maren, M. "The Age of E-Mail. Home Office Computing, December, 1993, 63-70. Tetzeli, R. "Is Going On-line Worth the Money?" FORTUNE 129(12):104-105, 108. June 13, 1994. 9. Internet Sites Gopher Index-L Archives gopher eagle1.cc.gasou.edu World Wide Web American Society of Indexers http://www.well.com/user/asi Australian Society of Indexers http://godzilla.zeta.org.au/~aussi Indexing Conference on the Well http://www.well.com/user/nmulvany/index.htm 10. WINNERS OF THE ASI/H.W. WILSON COMPANY AWARD FOR INDEXING 1979--Hans H. Wellisch, author and indexer; John Wiley, publisher: The Conversion of Scripts: Its Nature, History and Utilization 1980--Linda I. Solow, indexer; M.I.T. Press, publisher: Beyond Orpheus:Studies in Musical Structures. 1981--Delight Ansley, indexer; Random House Publisher: Cosmos by Carl Sagan, 1982--Catherine Fix, indexer; Wm. Saunders Company, publisher: Diagnosis of Bone and Joint Disorders. 1983--Award not given. 1984--Trish Yancey, indexer; Information Handling Services, publisher: Index and Directory of U.S. Industry Standards 1985--Sydney W. Cohen, indexer; Random House, publisher: The Experts Speak by Cerf and Navasky. 1986--Marjorie Hyslop, indexer; American Society for Metals, publisher: Metals Handbook. 1987--Award not given. 1988--Jeanne Moody, indexer; National Wildlife Institute, publisher: Raptor Management Techniques. 1989--Philip James, indexer; Butterworths, publisher: Medicine for the Practicing Physician, 2nd ed.. 1990--Marcia Carlson, indexer; Cornell University Press, publisher: Strategic Nuclear Arms & Arms Control Debates. 1991--Daniels, Nancy L., indexer; Van Nostrand Reinhold, publisher:Beyond Public Architecture: Strategies for Design Evaluation. 1992--Johnson, Rachel Jo., indexer; Matthew Bender, publisher: American Law of Real Property. 1993--Award not given. 1994--Deminna, Patricia, indexer; U. of California, publisher: Carnal Israel: Reading Sex in Talmudic Culture by Daniel Boyarin 1995--White, Martin L., indexer; University of Chicago Press, publisher; The Promise of Pragmatism: Modernism and the Crisis of YKnowledge and Authority. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 14:24:37 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey Subject: Re: SPAM ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- ---------- From: Indexer's Discussion Group on behalf of Nan Badgett I still consider myself an INTERNET novice, so you can let me know how naive this sounds. What if everyone simply ignored these messages 99.9% of people do, but that with a potential audience of over a million that still leaves 1,000 people to give the reaction that the spammer is looking for. Jonathan (trying a different network to avoid getting messages bounced) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 08:45:16 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SeIndex@aol.com Subject: USDA Indexing Course ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I recently saw a posting that said it took NINE months to complete the USDA Indexing course (due to the slow response time to/for assignments)! Perhaps this was for both courses, but even so this seems waaaaaaay to long! Can anyone else comment on this? Also, does anyone know of any other courses available (e.g. local colleges) in the Greater Boston area? I'm looking forward to Susan Holbert's workshop in the Spring of 96' (unfortunately I cannot attend the one she's conducting this weekend). Thanks in advance, Sue Evans ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 12:53:24 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mrowland@aol.com Subject: MA Chapter Conference Reminder ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Massachusetts Chapter:American Society of Indexers Fall Conference, 1995 Indexing Education: Trainees to Master Indexers: How we can work together Saturday, October 21, 1995 8:00 am to 4:30 pm Simmons College Rooms E 303 and E 305 Third Floor East 300 The Fenway Boston, Massachusetts Wondering how to get started in indexing? Wondering how to manage your increasing indexing workload? Want to learn more about indexing? Want to teach others what you have learned? Many new and experienced indexers work together in mentor-trainee or master-employee relationship for their mutal benefit. Our fall conference is designed to help you decide if such a relationship is right for you and to guide you in developing the working/training relationship that suits your needs. Five master indexers and three trainees or former trainees will describe their range of experiences, from indexers who hire others as assistants to those who focus on training and education, from those who work in the same room to those who communicate by phone, overnight delivery, or electronic mail. Our featured speaker is Barbara E. Cohen (ASI Secretary, 1993-97), of Champaign, IL. She will present her ASI Professional Development Workshop designed to train experienced (master) indexers in the art of hiring and training new indexers. Pilar Wyman, of Annapolis, MD, Larry Harrison, of Rochester MN, and Tom Broughton-Willett, of Amherst, MA, will offer advice for new indexers interested in working for other indexers. Diane Benison, Vice President. of the Massachusetts Chapter of ASI, and Maria Coughlin, of Annapolis, MD, will discuss business aspects and varieties of indexing. We'll provide opportunities for networking, so be sure to bring your resume, brochures, and business cards. AGENDA 8:00 to 8:30 Registration and coffee/tea 8:30 to 8:45 Welcome and Introductions, Marilyn Rowland, Diane Benison, and Ann Blum 8:45 to 10:15 Panel Discussion: Pairs of Mentor/trainees will share their experiences. Panel members include: Maria Coughlin and Pilar Wyman, Marilyn Rowland and Larry Harrison, Jodi Simpson and Tom Broughton-Willett, Ann Blum, and Barbara E. Cohen. 10:30 to 12:30 Concurrent panels For experienced indexers: Becoming a Master Indexer. Barbara E. Cohen will lead this workshop for those interested in hiring and mentoring others. Topics include: one-on-one training, skills for interviewing and hiring, kinds of work that assistants can perform, legal responsibilities of employers, management skills, and human resources management. Barbara has worked with several apprentices and trainees, has mentored several other indexers, and is writing a guide for master Indexers, to be published by ASI. For beginning indexers: Becoming a Trainee Indexer. Pilar Wyman, Larry Harrison, and Tom Broughton-Willett will lead this discussion on how to get started in indexing, offering your services to experienced indexers looking for assistants or trainees, making sure you get what you want out of the relationship, and working on your own. All have worked as trainee indexers. Pilar is Chair of the Washington DC chapter of ASI. 12:30 to 1:45 Lunch (provided) 1:45 to 3:15 Concurrent panels For experienced indexers: Continuation of morning workshop. For beginning indexers: Business aspects of Indexing, with Diane Benison and Maria Coughlin. The business aspects of indexing how to price your services fairly so that you can make a living as an indexer, how to negotiate with clients, how to keep business records that will help you evaluate how well you are doing financially, and an overview of types of indexing work available. 3:15 to 4:30 Panel and audience discussion: Sharing what we have learned. Directions: For a recorded message providing directions by car and by public transportation, please call Simmons College at (617) 521-2000. For more information and to help in conference planning, contact: Marilyn Rowland at 508/457-4525 or Mrowland@aol.com or Diane Benison at 508/393- 3447 or 76620.460 @compuserve.com. Registration Form NOTE: You may pay at the door, but please call or e-mail Diane Benison (address and phone number listed above) to let her know you are coming so that we can order enough lunches for all. Thank you! Conference fee:$80 at the door Lunch and coffee/tea are included. Parking is free with advance registration. Name: _______________________________________________________________________ Address: _____________________________________________________________________ Phone: _________________________________Fax:___________________________________ E-mail: ______________________________________________________________________ Workshop attending: ___ Becoming a Master Indexer ___Becoming a Trainee Indexer - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Massachusetts Chapter, American Society of Indexers c/o Cindy Howe, Secretary 5-3 Deer Path Maynard, MA 01754 (508) 897-0942 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 16:39:18 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kat Nagel/MasterWork Subject: Need multiple indices from same doc ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Came across this in Mac*Chat: ------ By Isaiah W. Cox I am working on my PhD Thesis, and I find that I have need for some *very* powerful indexing tools. Not only do I need to index my indices, and index footnotes (Something that Word will not do), I also need to be able to easily create 5-8 different indices in the same document. So, for example, I need to be able to give different kinds of tags to the same data set, and create different indices, one for names, one for kind of court case, etc. If anyone is curious, this is for a translation/edit of a medieval legal record. The Indices for this kind of work tend to run 100 pages, for an original text of 400 pages. Does the software exist for this? Can someone point me in the right direction? ----- I'm not familiar with the capabilities of CINDEX or other indexing software. Is there anything available that will do what he needs? Please reply directly to Mr. Cox, since I don't think he reads this list. Thanks. @Kat_____ Kat Nagel MasterWork Consulting Services Rochester, NY LIFE1 (techwriting/docdesign) katnagel@eznet.net LIFE2 (vocal chamber music) PlaynSong@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 09:04:12 ECT Reply-To: grant@onyxgfx.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Grant Hogarth Organization: Onyx Graphics Corp. Subject: (Fwd) New Academic Outreach WWW Site ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- This is forwarded from the DTP list. I realize that it is not *directly* related to either tech-writing or indexing, but it seems to contain pointers to resorces that might be of interest or use to members of these lists. Apologies to those that get it twice, but I can't know who you are! :-) Grant. x-post index-l, techwr-l ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 14:32:40 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lowell R. Schmeltz" To: publish@chron.com Subject: New Academic Outreach WWW Site Resources relevant to the field of Academic Outreach are now available via the World Wide Web: http://www.outreach.umich.edu/ This Web site is targeted toward administrators and scholars, and contains summaries of research in the areas of: * distance learning * electronic publishing * intellectual property * lifelong learning * partnerships in postsecondary education The site also includes links to other current academic outreach resources, as well as to the University of Michigan's Academic Outreach Program, recently established to meet the needs of people who can benefit from the University's resources and may or may not be interested in pursuing degrees and/or attending classes in Ann Arbor. Suggestions and participation welcome; contact AOP-RT@umich.edu =================================== Grant Hogarth, Information Services Onyx Graphics Corp. Midvale, UT www.onyxgfx.com ftp.onyxgfx.com #include ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 09:04:25 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: James R Farned Subject: Alternative Indexing Course In-Reply-To: <199510181754.KAA05529@coyote.rain.org> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- We are an indexing group in Santa Barbara. We also run a Bed and Breakfast. Sooo, here's the deal, for you or anyone you know . . . For about $1000 (we can discuss the exact price depending on the logistics of your stay), you can come and stay for a week at our Bed and Breakfast and learn to index from our expert staff. Why us . . . ? Our group, specifically, the owner of it and the Inn, has had twenty years of experience indexing scholarly books from publishers such as Princeton, Stanford, Harvard, Bantam, and MANY more. We are currently working on books in Biology, Psychology, Self-Help, and African Studies. Although we are not affiliated with the USDA course, you will recieve intimate training from some very good indexers. Not only will you be shown indexing, but we will help you get your business started by the sharing of our methods which have been successful enough to keep us going for this long. This offer is rare and limited. We usually take people in on a personal basis only, but we've decided to offer our services and facilities en masse, for now. Please, if you are interested, e-mail me as soon as possible so that we can begin to discuss the possibilities. Jim Gilley jfarned@rain.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 09:04:42 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Re: USDA Indexing Course In-Reply-To: <9510190134.AA02265@symnet.net> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- On Wed, 18 Oct 1995 SeIndex@aol.com wrote: > I recently saw a posting that said it took NINE months to complete the USDA > Indexing course (due to the slow response time to/for assignments)! Perhaps > this was for both courses, but even so this seems waaaaaaay to long! Can > anyone else comment on this? I'm one of the instructors of the USDA Basic Indexing course. The USDA allows students one year to complete a course. If students can't complete the course in one year, they may apply for an extension. Quite frankly, I don't see any problem with completing a course in nine months or a year. A "normal" course at a college or university may take a semester or two. Why shouldn't an indexing course take the same amount of time? A number of my students have attempted to rush through the course. Some have sent in three, four, or five lessons at a time and haven't waited for my feedback. They are, in effect, attempting to teach themselves indexing. Now, granted, some people can indeed do this. But most people cannot teach themselves how to index without any feedback whatsoever. Each USDA lesson builds on the previous lessons. If students make errors on previous lessons and don't wait for instructor feedback, they continue to make the same mistakes over and over again. And it's extremely difficult to unlearn bad habits. I ask my students to send assignments directly to me, rather than to the USDA. Once I've corrected the assignments (which I usually do within seven days), I must send them back to the USDA, where grades are recorded. The USDA then sends the corrected assignments on to the students. I don't think the turnaround time is appallingly bad. Please remember that USDA teachers also run their own indexing businesses. We teach the course because we have experience and expertise in indexing. We all have *many* students. Sometimes I'm able to return assignments one day after I receive them. But often I cannot. Again, the people who're trying to rush through the class are usually not doing well because they are simply not getting teacher feedback. They might as well pick up a book on indexing, read it, and declare themselves to be indexers. *Everybody* needs feedback in *any* field of endeavor. Indexing is meticulous work. If people are not willing to take the time to think about and absorb the material and to be meticulous, then chances are that they don't possess the desire to be detail-oriented and the desire to see the "big picture" that indexing demands. Anyway, that's my opinion, based on all the student assignments I've corrected. Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@symnet.net) "A cut dog hollers."--Lawton Chiles, governor of Florida ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 13:26:50 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kevin Subject: Re: Indexing images on CDs ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Laura wrote: (a week or so ago, sorry for the delay!) >I have been approached by a mail-order software company which is expanding >its horizons, about indexing a set of CDs for CD-ROM drives which contain >business-related "design elements" which can be downloaded and used by (I >guess) artists. ... I was wondering whether any of you have had any experience with indexing images. > Laura, I've done some work in this area, which I feel is one of the biggest new markets for indexers. One of the obvious driving forces in the publishing world, beyond what you're involved in with the CD-ROMs, is the more efficient utilization of the huge in-house image libraries of the big publishers. An author could sit down and stroll possible images for his new physics book, say, rather than doing the artwork from scratch. To this end, a coherent and well thought out program must be in place from the beginning. If it's thesaurus development they want, I would strongly recommend you call in or at least seek the advice of any of several thesaurus development experts like Jessica Millstead. I have been involved in some very low grade thesaurus maintenance, and what a morasse even that can be. Laura you could be in over your eyeballs on this type of project so fast it would make your head spin! You *must* get them to define exactly what it is they want. Do they want efficient and foolproof retrieval of *specific images*? Then there are ways to accomplish that with a minimal thesaurus that you could possibly develop combined with (critical factor!) free language capability. On the other hand if they want to be able to retreive an intelligent assortment of images that illustrate some thing or concept, that will require much more effort and a good thesaurus. Image indexing presents some interesting challenges. If a picture is worth a thousand words, sometimes it can take a thousand words to describe a picture. In a physics book, a picture of an ice skater can take many terms to describe it fully depending on how it's used. On the other hand, as long as free language capability exists, amazingly specific descriptions of specific images can be achieved with few terms. Thus a picture of Albert Einstein could be retrieved with 100% certainty with only two terms: Albert Einstein(free language); Black and White Photographs. There is someone on Index-l, who posted her web page address here about a month ago, who is also involved with image indexing. Perhaps she's already contacted you. Good luck! Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 09:07:48 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Prindex@aol.com Subject: Re: USDA Indexing Course ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I wrote that it took me 9 months to finish the USDA indexing course - but I wasn't complaining I was just stating that that is the time frame an indexing student is looking at. I did wait for my assignments to be returned before sending in the next assignment. I also learned a lot. Judy ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 09:08:05 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Authenticated sender is From: cmackay@ids2.idsonline.com Subject: Re: USDA Indexing Course ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > Also, does anyone know of any other courses available (e.g. local colleges) > in the Greater Boston area? > > Sue Evans One I know of in the Boston area is at Simmons College Graduate School of Library and Information Science. You may have to apply to the graduate program to take the class, though. I encourage you to call and find out. (Sorry, I thought I had the phone number but I don't.) I thought it was an excellent class. Coleen cmackay@ids2.idsonline.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 09:08:18 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: USDA course ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I realize that I forgot some stuff when I sent in my posting about the length of time it takes to finish the USDA Basic Indexing course. When students finish the course, they don't always immediately leap into a thriving indexing business. It takes time and patience and perseverance to build up an indexing business--or any other business, for that matter. In addition to teaching the indexing course, correcting assignments, and fielding specific indexing questions, I think that all of us who teach Basic Indexing function as mentors for our students. Many students have questions about how to start up and "grow" a business, and all of us instructors try our hardest to give our best advice. I find mentoring to be extremely satisfying. If I hadn't had mentors when I first decided to go into business for myself, I know it would've taken me far longer to get up and running. Some of my students are so terrific that I have no hesitation about referring them to publishers when I have overflow work. One of my students hasn't even finished the course yet, and he's working on his third freelance indexing project. So, there are indeed advantages to taking your time, being meticulous, and really working at the indexing course. Some students discover that they really love indexing. Some discover that they aren't interested in obsessively detail-oriented work that also requires equal attention to the "big picture." I think it's just as important to find out what you *don't* like as it is to find out what you *do* like. Self-employment ain't easy. Indexing ain't easy. But nothing that's truly worth doing is easy. But, at the same time, if you love what you're doing, it makes your life a whole lot easier. Hazel (up on her soapbox again) Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@symnet.net) Life in Florida: "A loggerhead turtle fell from the sky and hit a man in his white Chevy Nova."--Tallahassee Democrat, 9/17/95