========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 17:38:18 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Manny Ratafia Organization: Yale University Subject: Text Search & Info Retrieval for Word for Windows ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- CommTech PowerSearch 4.0 for Word for Windows is now available. This release of our text-search and information retrieval shareware adds searching across multiple files, automatic writing of reports, and multiple replacements in one pass. Other features include Boolean (AND/OR/NOT) search and replace, use of a thesaurus, combination searches, and editing of previous searches. After you have tried it, I would be very interested to hear what you think about it. Feel free to forward this message to any appropriate lists. Manny Ratafia tmgmail@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu CommTech PowerSearch can be downloaded by ftp from oak.oakland.edu (look for the file called SEARCHW4.ZIP under the directory \SimTel\win3\winword\). SEARCHW4.ZIP is also available for download from America Online and CompuServe. Or, you can use CommTech's BBS at 203/ 495-8604. For more information, send e-mail with "CommTech PowerSearch 4.0 Info" in the SUBJECT to tmgmail@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 17:38:34 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Re: fees for periodicals In-Reply-To: <9508211338.AA08358@carson.u.washington.edu> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I personally would bid per hour or per entry, given that the indexable material is apt to vary over time; but you might also consider a flat rate per issue or volume, subject to format limitations (e.g., issue not to exceed xx pgs, 8-1/2 x 11"; 12 issues per volume). However you bid it, do a representative test (preferably using issues scattered over the entire run of the journal) before you quote a figure; and build in a contingency clause into the contract in case the character of the journal changes in mid-stream requiring renegotiation of the rates. Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, Wa. e-mail: cweaver@u.washington.edu voice: 206/930-4348 On Mon, 21 Aug 1995, Carol Roberts wrote: > ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > While I'm trying to figure out how to use the archives (so far, got back > only a list of dates of archives, but I'm not giving up), I would love to > hear from some of you on how to charge for periodicals. I'm about to bid on > a cumulative index, and I have a good idea how to construct the index > itself but not how to bid. None of the usual methods--per hour, page, or > entry--seem appropriate for this job. > > Thanks very much for any help you can give me. Cheers, > > Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | Life is good. > Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | > Milwaukee, WI | > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 17:38:49 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kari Bero Subject: book reviews mentioning indexes ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Hi all. Do any of you know of book reviews that mention the books' indexes (or lack of)? I would love to see which publications and reviewers mention indexes more often than others. I went through the INDEX-L archives, but I only found a couple reviews mentioned. -Kari %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Kari J. Bero Bero-West Indexing Services 206-937-3673 3722 Beach Drive SW, Suite 101 bero@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu Seattle, WA 98116 http://alexia.lis.uiuc.edu/~bero/ %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 17:39:18 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Australian Society of Indexers Subject: AusSI Book Indexing Course (Details) 25-27 Sep 95 Melbourne ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Further to a recent message, I include the full details of the course and application form. Cheers Dwight ________________________ Australian Society of Indexers GPO Box 1251, Melbourne, Victoria 3001 Australia INTRODUCTION TO BOOK INDEXING: A SHORT COURSE Introduction The Australian Society of Indexers (Victorian Branch) is offering a course on back-of-book indexing. Introduction to Book Indexing is being offered to those in the information profession and/or publishing industries who have limited knowledge of the art of indexing. The course is designed to have a large practical component, but will also give a strong basis in the theory of indexing. Venue The course will be held at RMIT, Department of Information Management and Library Studies, Building 22 (cnr Swanston and Latrobe Streets), 4th Floor, Room 4.04, Melbourne, Victoria. Time 9:30 am to 4:30 pm, September 25-27, 1995. Course Fees Fees are $250 per participant ($225 for AusSI and Society of Editors members), and will include all instruction, course notes, morning and afternoon teas. Training Guarantee Scheme This course meets the requirements for training as laid down under the Training Guarantee Scheme. Certificates Applicants who successfully complete the course will be provided with certificates verifying their attendance at these training sessions. Those who will benefit from this course include those who are or who are planning to become: Freelance indexers Indexers in publishing houses Editors responsible for indexing Editors responsible for assessing indexes compiled by authors or professional indexers Librarians responsible for compiling indexes Authors responsible for their own indexing The short course will cover the following topics: * Introduction to indexing * Methods * Computer-assisted indexing * Selected terms * Principles of subject access * Headings and subheadings * Cross references * Alphabetical arrangement * Style * Editing for publication * Dealing with editors and publishers * Indexing as a business Practical exercises will be conducted throughout the course and as a major exercise a book (provided with the course material) will be indexed. About the Instructors George Levick MAgrSc, DipEd, was previously Manager of the Australian Bibliography of Agriculture (ABOA) database and has extensive experience in the teaching of indexing. He is the author of the chapter on indexing in the AGPS Style Manual, and is President of the National/Victorian Branch of the Australian Society of Indexers. Mary Long BSocSci, GradDipLib, DipEd, AALIA, is a lecturer in the Library and Information Studies Department, Box Hill College of TAFE. Max McMaster BAgrSc, GradDipLib, is Chairman of the Panel of Assessors of the Australian Society of Indexers. He is a freelance indexer and has had extensive experience in the teaching of indexing. Other guest lecturers will also be used. For further information contact: Max McMaster Australian Society of Indexers GPO Box 1251 Melbourne 3001 Tel: (03) 571-6341 Fax: (03) 571-6341 e-mail mindexer@interconnect.com.au ________________________ Australian Society of Indexers GPO Box 1251, Melbourne, Victoria 3001 Australia APPLICATION FORM INTRODUCTION TO BOOK INDEXING COURSE, September 25-27, 1995 NAME: _______________________________________________ POSITION: ____________________________________________ ORGANISATION: ________________________________________ ADDRESS: ____________________________________________ _____________________________________________________ PROPOSED AREA OF WORK: (eg. technical, educational, legal, newspapers, genealogy, etc.) ______________________________________________________ TEL: ______________________ FAX: ________________________ PLACES WILL BE ASSIGNED ON A FIRST COME, FIRST SERVED BASIS. Please make cheque or money order made payable to the Australian Society of Indexers. Mail completed application to: Hon. Secretary Australian Society of Indexers GPO Box 1251 Melbourne 3001 ------- Dwight Walker Webmaster Australian Society of Indexers +61-2-3986726 (h) +61-2-4393750 (w) W-F URL: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 17:39:29 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: WordenDex@aol.com Subject: Re: Indexing weekly newspaper ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- The Kalamazoo Gazette uses a proprietary database developed by the Kalamazoo Public Library, 315 S. Rose St., Kalamazoo, Michigan 49007. KPL's head indexer is Margean Gladysz. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 17:39:40 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey Subject: Cumulative indexes using Word ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >---------------------------Original message---------------------------- >I am being obliged to index software manuals using the "Index" feature of >Microsoft Word for Windows 6.0. This is a very primitive feature, even for a >word-processor. Each software manual belongs to a "library" of manuals (that >is, a collection of manuals relating to a particular product). Each "library" >consists of up to 20 manuals, which are released several times a year, so the >indexes need to be maintained continuously. > > What I need to do is to create individual indexes to each manual; and in >addition a "master" index for each "library", containing all the entries >(interfiled) of all the constituent manuals, giving a volume or manual number >or code and the page number(s). > >1. Is it possible to do this using Microsoft Word? > 2. If not, is there an add-on >which allows MSWord-produced indexes to be tagged by volume and interfiled? > >Michael Wyatt >Keyword Editorial Services Dear Michael, The short answer to the first question is "Yes" - however, it does require use of several other features of Word to get it working. Over and above defining the embedded index terms and creating a separate index for each manual, it involves. a) Putting a Heading 1 style 'Chapter' heading at the beginning of each manual to be included in the cumulative index. If there are already Heading 1 style headings within the manual these will have to be demoted to heading 2, heading 2 to heading 3, etc. b) Using View Master Document to set up a 'master' document file which references all the existing manuals within each library. Each manual then becomes a 'Chapter' in this master document. c) Using the Insert Page Number Format option to include the 'chapter number' in the page number display. d) Using Insert Index to generate a cumulative index which includes 'chapter' (i.e. volume) numbers for the complete library. Hope this helps. Let me know if you need more details. Jonathan. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Jermey & Glenda Browne Blaxland NSW Australia 061-47-398-199 jonathan@magna.com.au "From the motherboard on the sister ship to the brotherhood in the fatherland." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 17:39:53 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MTOWERY@aol.com Subject: Re: Indexing weekly newspaper ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Dear Lori: I have just started volunteering a bit of time to my local library because they are just starting to index the local papers. I live in Lafayette, IN. The greater L. area is about 80-85,000 and has one main paper with several smaller ones, for example, one for business. Mindy Krushen is supervising the project for the Tippecanoe County Public Library. She can be reached at 317-429-0100. They have volunteers enter the basic info on articles (of state and local interest--no strictly national news) and enter an abstract for the article. Librarians then add subject entries later. They are using a system called Dynix, which is the library retrieval system for the lib. as a whole. Volunteers do not seem averse to working on computer, even though the program is relatively difficult to go back and edit on. At any rate, you might contact Mindy for more info. Good luck Margie Towery Towery Indexing and Editing Service P.S. Looking forward to meeting you in Indianapolis in Oct. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 17:40:05 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "DTN 522-6614, Just a PC guy lookin' for a VAXectomy!" Subject: Re: MICROSOFT WORD TEXT FILES: IMBEDDED INDEX ENTRIES ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- paraphrased, from 21/aug/95 >>>I am being obliged to index software manuals as individual books and as libraries using the "index feature of Word. Is it possible to do this using Word?>>>> >>>>Michael Wyatt Michael, You can do indexes in Word to include entries from a number of files. Use the {RD filename} field to reference the other files from the file you're building the index in. You can do the same to build TOCs and lists of figures/tables. Use the "\f" switch on the {INDEX} field to build multiple indexes in the same file. You'll have to code each index tag in the documents to point it to its appropraite generated index. The exact syntax and mechanism is a little hard to explain in email. I suggest you get Woody Leonhard's "Hacker's Guide to Word for Windows" for the details. Word just isn't designed to make doing long, multi-file, tech docs easy. But it is possible. One more thing. I'd really recommend you stay away from Word's Master Document funcions. Very buggy, and you'll waste a lot of time, especially with the size of docs you're doing. Make use of fields to do your docs in separate chapter files, linked only by such fields as {RD} and {INCLUDETEXT}. Regards, Bob )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( Bob Lord Technical Writer Digital Equipment Corporation "Just a PC guy lookin' for a LORD@SSDEVO.ENET.DEC.COM VAXectomy!!" b.l. 719.548.6614 )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 1995 17:55:14 ECT Reply-To: amadigan@ednet1.osl.or.gov Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Madigan Subject: Re: book reviews mentioning indexes ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Dear Kari, I'm still a lurker on this listserv, and I am a school librarian. *Booklist* is a major review periodical for librarians, and in their major reference reviews, they certainly check the indexing. I'm lurking because I had an idea that indexing seems really interesting and I'd like to do this as my next career. From what I've read on this listserv, it's much more complicated than I imagined! (probably like the school library media specialist is also complicated.) This info may not be exactly what you're looking for, but I hope it helps some. Ann Madigan -- Ann Madigan amadigan@ednet1.osl.or.gov Stanfield School District phone: (503) 449-3851 Stanfield, Oregon 97875 fax: (503) 449-8751 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 1995 17:55:39 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kat Nagel/MasterWork Subject: Re: INDEX-L Digest - 21 Aug 1995 to 22 Aug 1995 ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Kari J. Bero wrote: %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Hi all. Do any of you know of book reviews that mention the books' indexes (or lack of)? I would love to see which publications and reviewers mention indexes more often than others. I went through the INDEX-L archives, but I only found a couple reviews mentioned. -Kari %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Good indexes are a major selling point for books purchased for libraries with active Reference divisions. Most reviews in journals for professional librarians (Wilson Library Bulletin, Library Journal, Booklist, Choice, etc.) will mention the index if it is especially good or especially bad. A typical average-quality index may not get much comment due to space limitations. @Kat Kat Nagel LIFE1 (techwriting) katnagel@eznet.net MasterWork LIFE2 (music) PlaynSong@aol.com \'o o'/ If more of us valued food and cheer and song ={ ^ }= above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. _____ Thorin Oakenshield ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 1995 17:56:37 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary S Stephenson Subject: Re: book reviews mentioning indexes In-Reply-To: <199508230041.RAA24530@unixg.ubc.ca> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Each issue of The Indexer includes citations to book reviews mentioning indexes. Susie Stephenson UBC/SLAIS Vancouver mss@unixg.ubc.ca On Tue, 22 Aug 1995, Kari Bero wrote: > ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > Hi all. Do any of you know of book reviews that mention the books' indexes > (or lack of)? I would love to see which publications and reviewers mention > indexes more often than others. I went through the INDEX-L archives, but > I only found a couple reviews mentioned. > -Kari > > %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > Kari J. Bero > Bero-West Indexing Services 206-937-3673 > 3722 Beach Drive SW, Suite 101 bero@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu > Seattle, WA 98116 http://alexia.lis.uiuc.edu/~bero/ > %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 1995 17:57:01 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Alison Chipman Subject: Citing Electronic Databases ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- This is a nuts-and-bolts question (or periods-and-commas question?) possibly addressed more properly to compilers of bibliographies than to indexers. But since many indexers do both, I thought I'd ask the indexer community. I need to compile bibliographic citations to several files mounted on electronic databases, for instance the AAT file mounted on the Research Libraries Information Network (RLIN). Chicago Manual of Style 13 ed. does not address the question at all, at least, not according to its index, and surely such a topic would not have been overlooked by its indexer. Can anyone advice me as to any established, or semi-established format for citing electronic databases? i need to know such things as: - How the title is formed (assuming the database itself assigns no official title, as RLIN does not with regard to any of its authority files). Does one combine file and database name in the title: subtitle construct, like this: Research Libraries information Network: Art & Architecture Thesaurus. - Or is the name of the specific file in quotation marks, followed by the name of the database, as in the format for citing periodical articles and papers from collected works, like this: "Art & Architecture Thesaurus." Research Libraries Information Network. - Should a note be inserted following the title, stating that it is a file or text on a database, such as: Electronic publication. Or Online authority file. - How publication and date information are formed. For instance, is the date the first year the file was officially mounted followed by a dash, as in the case of ongoing periodicals Any assistance with this issue would be most gratefully received. If I receive information leading to a standard citation format, I'll gladly post it to the list for the edification of others, if so desired, or just to those who express interest in hearing the outcome. Perhaps replies should be addressed directly to me, as this is sort of a side issue to the proper subject matter of Index-L. Sincerely, Alison Chipman achipman@aat.getty.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 08:42:02 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: beginner's question ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Hope you don't mind my asking this beginner's question: I lined up my first project, to index a book for my Rabbi. We agreed on a very low rate as it will be my first index, and because he doesn't have a lot of money. He didn't know that he, as the author, would be responsible for either doing the index or having it done. (Is that common?) Anyway, it was originally supposed to get to me in March. Then it was maybe June. Then it was August for sure. Now it's definitely September (or not). I'm going on a 2 week vacation in mid-October. What if the darn thing finally does arrive, but too close to, or even during, my vacation? As a first-timer who made a poor showing on the first index lesson in the USDA course, I feel I'll need at least 2 weeks (it's supposedly only 178 pages but I'll believe that when I see it). I realize I'm what-if-ing, but I think at this point, it isn't irrational to do so. Any thoughts? Suggestions? Panicked on Martha's Vineyard Rachel Rice Martha's Vineyard Island rachelr@tiac.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 08:42:41 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a)" Subject: INDEX-L: error report from GODZILLA.LIB.PDX.EDU From: "William Abrams" Date: 23 Aug 95 15:47:23 PST Subject: Re: Citing Electronic Databases Two sources that may provide some guidance: 1) Electronic style: a guide to citing electronic information / by Xia Li. Westport : Meckler, c1993. 2) National Library of Medicine recommended formats for bibliographic citation / by Karen Patria. Bethesda, Md. : NLM Reference Section, 1991. But, no particular method of citation has been authorized, as yet, by any organization of note. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 08:50:46 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Reviews of indexes In-Reply-To: <9508240108.AA22950@symnet.net> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I've been off the list for a bit, so I apologize if my answer is repetitive. The Indexer, the journal of the British Society of Indexers, carries many reviews of indexes, culled from other journals and newspapers. The Indexer is a sheer delight to read! Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@symnet.net) "We know the human brain is a device to keep the ears from grating on one another."--Peter De Vries ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 18:04:31 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Citing Electronic Databases ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In response to Alison Chipman (AChipman@.aat.getty.edu) ... The only guide I've seen is _Electronic Style: A Guide to Citing Electronic Information_ by Xia Li and Nancy B. Crane, published by Meckler, 11 Ferry Lane, Westport, CT 06880 and Meckler Ltd., Artillery House, Artillery Row, London SW1P 1RT. The ISBN is 0-88736-909-X. Page 48 of the book gives examples of cites for part of a bibliographic database and examples of cites for an entire bibliographic database. Here is one of the examples it gives for part of a bibliographic database: ERIC CUE (Current Index to Journals in Education). (1969-). ERIC [Online]. Washington, DC: Educational Resources Infor- mation Center (Producer). Available Telnet: uvm.carl.org Directory: ERIC File: ERIC CUE And here is one of the examples it gives for citing an entire bibliographic database: AGRICOLA [CD-ROM]. (1970-1978). Beltsville: National Agricul- tural Library (Producer). Available: SilverPlatter Hope this helps. Lori ************************************************************************* Lori Lathrop ----------> INTERNET:76620.456@compuserve.com Lathrop Media Services, P.O. Box 3065, Idaho Springs, CO 80452 Office: 303-567-4011 / Home: 303-567-9533 ************************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 18:04:44 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Indexing weekly newspaper ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Thanks to all who responded to me privately and on this list. I'm now better prepared to discuss the project with the newspaper editor and, if I have questions later, I know where to go for help. ;-) Appreciatively .... Lori ************************************************************************* Lori Lathrop ----------> INTERNET:76620.456@compuserve.com Lathrop Media Services, P.O. Box 3065, Idaho Springs, CO 80452 Office: 303-567-4011 / Home: 303-567-9533 ************************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 18:04:55 ECT Reply-To: Lisa Guedea Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lisa Guedea Subject: Re: Citing Electronic Databases ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Although Chicago 13th doesn't address databases, I found that the 14th edition does, albeit briefly: [Section 15.424] "The proliferation of documents created, stored, and disseminated on computer systems and the burgeoning requirement to cite such documents introduces a need to specify standards for citing such material. The International Standards Organization (ISO) has endeavored to construct, and continues to modify, a uniform system of citing electronic documents. The ISO documentation system, to which the University of Chicago Press subscribes, stresses consistency but allows discretion in the choice of punctuation used to separate elements and in the use of variations in typeface or underscoring to distinguish or highlight certain elements . . . The reader is urged to obtain the latest recommendations of the ISO for a more comprehensive treatment of this exceedingly complex, fluid, and rapidly expanding field of source material." For the "latest recommendations of the ISO," Chicago recommends you request information from the following address: ISO TC46/SC 9 Secretariat: Office of Library Standards National Library of Canada Ottawa K1A 0N4 Canada [no phone number given] This section also includes five examples, several of which are quite lengthy. They include entries from databases on DIALOG and NLM as well as something cited in an electronic bulletin board available on a listserv. If you don't have easy access to the 14th ed. of Chicago, e-mail me personally and I'll fax the section to you (it's two pages total). Lisa Guedea, Corporate Librarian Highsmith, Inc. LGuedea@Highsmith.com W5527 Highway 106 P.O. Box 800 Fort Atkinson, WI 53538-0800 Phone: 414-563-9571 / Fax: 414-563-7395 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 18:05:06 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jennifer Comeau Subject: Re: Citing Electronic Databases ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >I need to compile bibliographic citations to several files mounted on >electronic databases, for instance the AAT file mounted on the >Research Libraries Information Network (RLIN). Chicago Manual of >Style 13 ed. does not address the question at all Alison, Check out the 14th edition of *Chicago.* There's nothing in the index under databases, but their examples for citation of electronic documents (e.g., in 15.424) include databases. I hope this helps. Jennifer L. Comeau Project Editor University of Nebraska Press jcomeau@unlinfo.unl.edu (402) 472-7703 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 18:05:32 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Coleen MacKay Subject: Re: INDEX-L: error report from GODZILLA.LIB.PDX.EDU ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Just a quick correction to the message that appears below: The author of the second source is Karen Patrias, with an "s" on the end of her name. I worked with her at NLM. Coleen MacKay cmackay@bna.com ===================================================================== From: "William Abrams" Date: 23 Aug 95 15:47:23 PST Subject: Re: Citing Electronic Databases Two sources that may provide some guidance: 1) Electronic style: a guide to citing electronic information / by Xia Li. Westport : Meckler, c1993. 2) National Library of Medicine recommended formats for bibliographic citation / by Karen Patria. Bethesda, Md. : NLM Reference Section, 1991. But, no particular method of citation has been authorized, as yet, by any organization of note. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 18:05:47 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bookindexr@aol.com Subject: Re: beginner's question ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Hi Rachel, Two points: it is VERY common for the author to be unaware of her/his responsibility for the index until near the deadline. This clause IS standard in U.S. publisher's contracts for authors, but most first-time authors do not read and/or understand it. It is a major cause (IMHO) of quality problems in indexes. Faced with this necessity, and the financial burden, some authors dash something off that looks like an index even though they have no experience in indexing, while others search frantically for anyone they can find to do the index at a low price. Please don't take this personally, but neither approach is likely to result in a top-quality index. Secondly, if the late delivery of the proofs for your use is not your fault, you should not bear the responsibility for compensating for it, such as by cancelling your personal plans. Indexers usually have (at least they are well-advised to have) a written agreement with their client (publisher or author) which spells out what happens in these situations. If you have not already discussed the timing of your vacation with your rabbi, now is the time to do so. Discussion in advance will make all the difference. Best of luck, Larry Harrison ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 18:05:58 ECT Reply-To: LWill@willpowr.demon.co.uk Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Leonard Will Subject: Re: Citing Electronic Databases ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Alison Chipman asked: > Can anyone advice me as to any established, or semi-established > format for citing electronic databases? There are a few books on this, including one by a couple of librarians whose name I forget - if nobody else provides the reference let me know and I'll look it up. Just by chance, though, the following arrived in my e-mail in-tray today, and seems to be an authoritative answer, for the USA at least. If you don't like what it says this is your opportunity to comment. ====================== Start of quoted message ======================= Date sent: Wed, 23 Aug 1995 13:21:51 CDT Send reply to: psgraham@gandalf.rutgers.edu From: "Peter Graham, Rutgers University Libraries" Subject: Electronic Citations / NISO To: Multiple recipients of list PACS-L ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- From: Peter Graham, Rutgers University Libraries This may be of interest to this list. --pg **============================================================================= From: IN%"niso-l@cni.org" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: ISO/DIS 690-2 is available for comment The proposed ISO standard for Citations to Electronic Documents (DIS690-2) is now out for review. You are invited to review the standard and comment. Your comments will be considered in formulating the U.S. vote on this proposed international standard. The standard describes how to create references to electronic monographs, databases and computer programs, electronic serials, electronic bulletin boards, and email. It prescribes an order for the elements of a reference and establishes conventions for the transcription and presentation of information derived from the source electronic document. Many examples illustrate the text. The comment period closes November 15. The cost per copy is $35. To order you copy of DIS 690-2 contact: NISO Press Fulfillment Telephone: 800-282-6476 or 654-2512. Fax: 301-567-9553 Comments on the draft should be sent to NISO at nisohq@cni.org or mailed to: NISO, 4733 Bethesda Avenue, Suite 300, Bethesda, MD 20814. *********************************************************************** Peter Graham psgraham@gandalf.rutgers.edu Rutgers University Libraries 169 College Ave., New Brunswick, NJ 08903 (908)445-5908; fax (908)445-5888 ============= End of quoted message =============================== -- Dr Leonard D Will Tel: +44 181 372 0092 Information Management Consultant Fax: +44 181 372 0094 27 Calshot Way, ENFIELD, Middlesex Email: LWill@willpowr.demon.co.uk EN2 7BQ, United Kingdom ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 18:06:40 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Anne Simard Subject: Re: Citing Electronic Databases ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Maybe these sources would help you : Frost, C.O. (1989). Media access and organization : a cataloguing and reference sources guide for nonbook materials. Englewood, Colo.: Libraries Unlimited. Marko, L. (1990). Bibliographic description of computer files : lessons learned from a case study. In : Gould, C.C. (ed.) Computer files and the research library. Mountain View, Ca : the Research Libraries Group. Olson, N. (1992). Cataloguing Computer files. Lake Crystal, Min.: Soldier Creek Press. Sheble, M.A. & Sheble, G.B. (1991). Cataloguing in the "paperless information" age. Cataloguing & classification quarterly, 13(1), p. 3-29. Voila!! Anne Simard Librarian Indexer Integrated Service for Information Resources Centre for Information Technology Innovation ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 18:06:57 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: beginner's question ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Rachel, I'd let your Rabbi know when you plan to be away on vacation as soon as possible. If the proofs aren't delivered by three weeks before you leave for vacation, call him again and tell him that you won't have time to complete the index before you go on vacation. (You may surprise him and yourself, BTW, by completing it in less than two weeks. ;-)) Frequent (but not peskily so) communication with him is the key here. If the schedule is fluid enough (and it seems to have been pretty elaaaaastic thus far), he possibly could arrange for you to start work on it before you leave and finish it after you return. (But that's stretching it to a four-week turn-around time that the publisher may not agree with.) BTW, this is something that will come up again in your indexing career and it's best to notify clients when you'll be on vacation as soon as you realize that their schedules will collide with that period of time. Yes, it is common for authors to be responsible for providing the index or at least paying for it out of their royalties (with the publisher arranging to have it done by a professional indexer). Good luck on your first indexing project!! (And take a deep breath for that panic attack. ;-)) Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs You wrote: > >----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >Hope you don't mind my asking this beginner's question: I lined up my first >project, to index a book for my Rabbi. We agreed on a very low rate as it >will be my first index, and because he doesn't have a lot of money. He >didn't know that he, as the author, would be responsible for either doing >the index or having it done. (Is that common?) > >Anyway, it was originally supposed to get to me in March. Then it was maybe >June. Then it was August for sure. Now it's definitely September (or not). >I'm going on a 2 week vacation in mid-October. What if the darn thing >finally does arrive, but too close to, or even during, my vacation? As a >first-timer who made a poor showing on the first index lesson in the USDA >course, I feel I'll need at least 2 weeks (it's supposedly only 178 pages >but I'll believe that when I see it). I realize I'm what-if-ing, but I >think at this point, it isn't irrational to do so. Any thoughts? >Suggestions? > >Panicked on Martha's Vineyard > >Rachel Rice >Martha's Vineyard Island >rachelr@tiac.net > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 18:07:26 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mike Van Fossen Organization: UNC Subject: Re: Citing Electronic Databases In-Reply-To: <67643C3001F200E0> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- A good source to find electronic database citation information: "Electronic Style: A Guide to Citing Electronic Information" by Xia Li and Nancy B. Crane, 1993, Meckler Pub. Co. This covers full-text and bibibliographic databases, electronic conferences and electronic bulletin boards, and personal electronic mail. Well-written with good examples. I heard that a revised edition is supposed to be published this fall. Mike %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% MICHAEL VAN FOSSEN State/International Documents Librarian Reference Department - Documents Walter Davis Library CB#3912 University of North Carolina Chapel Hill, NC 27599 (919) 962-1151 Fax: (919) 962-0077 vanfosen.davis@mhs.unc.edu %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 18:07:40 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JanCW@aol.com Subject: Re: Citing Electronic Databases ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- The July August edition of STC's Intercom has some rules worked out for citing electronic media and internet materials, beginning on page 14. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 18:07:57 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Re: beginner's question In-Reply-To: <9508241644.AA14597@carson.u.washington.edu> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Simple. Tell your client that you will need two weeks for the project from the date of delivery of the manuscript, and that you will not be available Oct. ___ to ___. If he can't wait for you, he can find another indexer. If he's taken nine months to get the manuscript to you, then he can probably wait another two weeks. You cannot put your life on hold simply because the client can't get his act together. Speaking from experience, there are some projects agreed to long ago that NEVER materialize! So don't spend the money until the check clears the bank. Beginner or not, your client need to treat you in a professional manner. And if the delays are his fault, then he should expect that the deadline will be adjusted to fit your schedule. Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, Wa. e-mail: cweaver@u.washington.edu voice: 206/930-4348 On Thu, 24 Aug 1995, Rachel Rice wrote: > ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > Hope you don't mind my asking this beginner's question: I lined up my first > project, to index a book for my Rabbi. We agreed on a very low rate as it > will be my first index, and because he doesn't have a lot of money. He > didn't know that he, as the author, would be responsible for either doing > the index or having it done. (Is that common?) > > Anyway, it was originally supposed to get to me in March. Then it was maybe > June. Then it was August for sure. Now it's definitely September (or not). > I'm going on a 2 week vacation in mid-October. What if the darn thing > finally does arrive, but too close to, or even during, my vacation? As a > first-timer who made a poor showing on the first index lesson in the USDA > course, I feel I'll need at least 2 weeks (it's supposedly only 178 pages > but I'll believe that when I see it). I realize I'm what-if-ing, but I > think at this point, it isn't irrational to do so. Any thoughts? > Suggestions? > > Panicked on Martha's Vineyard > > Rachel Rice > Martha's Vineyard Island > rachelr@tiac.net > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 11:36:05 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Re: Citing Electronic Databases In-Reply-To: <9508240038.AA13738@carson.u.washington.edu> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Try the following National Library of Medicine publication: 'Recommended Formats for Bibliographic Citation'. It's available from NTIS for $28.50 paper or $12.50 microfiche. Order No.: PB91-182930/GBB. You may also be able to find it at a library in your area. To quote the blurb in the NLM publications catalog, "This publication provides instructions for formatting citations to 14 different types of both published and unpublished material, ranging from the more traditional journal articles and books to the newer electronic formats such as CD-ROM and email. It was produced to provide assistance to authors in compiling lists of references for their publications...and to librarians and others in formatting bibliographic citations." Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, Wa. e-mail: cweaver@u.washington.edu voice: 206/930-4348 On Wed, 23 Aug 1995, Alison Chipman wrote: > ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > This is a nuts-and-bolts question (or periods-and-commas question?) > possibly addressed more properly to compilers of bibliographies than > to indexers. But since many indexers do both, I thought I'd ask the > indexer community. > > I need to compile bibliographic citations to several files mounted on > electronic databases, for instance the AAT file mounted on the > Research Libraries Information Network (RLIN). Chicago Manual of > Style 13 ed. does not address the question at all, at least, not > according to its index, and surely such a topic would not have been > overlooked by its indexer. > > Can anyone advice me as to any established, or semi-established > format for citing electronic databases? i need to know such things > as: > > - How the title is formed (assuming the database itself assigns no > official title, as RLIN does not with regard to any of its authority > files). Does one combine file and database name in the title: > subtitle construct, like this: > Research Libraries information Network: Art & Architecture > Thesaurus. > > - Or is the name of the specific file in quotation marks, followed > by the name of the database, as in the format for citing periodical > articles and papers from collected works, like this: > "Art & Architecture Thesaurus." Research Libraries Information > Network. > > - Should a note be inserted following the title, stating that it > is a file or text on a database, such as: > Electronic publication. Or > Online authority file. > > - How publication and date information are formed. For instance, is > the date the first year the file was officially mounted followed by a > dash, as in the case of ongoing periodicals > > Any assistance with this issue would be most gratefully received. If > I receive information leading to a standard citation format, I'll > gladly post it to the list for the edification of others, if so > desired, or just to those who express interest in hearing the > outcome. Perhaps replies should be addressed directly to me, as this > is sort of a side issue to the proper subject matter of Index-L. > > Sincerely, > > Alison Chipman > achipman@aat.getty.edu > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 11:36:18 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Re: beginner's question In-Reply-To: <9508241404.AA26830@symnet.net> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- On Thu, 24 Aug 1995, Rachel Rice wrote: > ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > Hope you don't mind my asking this beginner's question: Please don't apologize for asking a "beginner's question." We were all beginners once. And many so-called "beginner's questions" are just as puzzling for experienced indexers as for new indexers. > He > didn't know that he, as the author, would be responsible for either doing > the index or having it done. (Is that common?) In my experience, many presses require the author to write the index or to find someone to do so. And many authors are flabbergasted that this task falls to them. > Anyway, it was originally supposed to get to me in March. Then it was maybe > June. Then it was August for sure. Now it's definitely September (or not). > I'm going on a 2 week vacation in mid-October. What if the darn thing > finally does arrive, but too close to, or even during, my vacation? I think that this is a problem we've all had. Many books slip and slip and slip out of schedules. I've had to regretfully say goodbye to some projects that I really wanted to work on, because I simply couldn't wait any longer for them to arrive. It's always nice if a client will reserve your time by paying you something up front, but this is a rare occurrence--at least in my experience. Since this book has been sliding around since March, there's no way you can know when it'll finally land on your desk. Tell your rabbi exactly when you're going on vacation. As a self-employed person, you really must schedule your vacations in advance, or you'll never take any. And you *need* vacations to stay sane. So, mark that vacation in ink on your calendar--and don't cancel it! If the project shows up while you're away, so be it. No one can expect you to hang on for almost five months. Believe me: You'll get other projects. As a > first-timer who made a poor showing on the first index lesson in the USDA > course, I feel I'll need at least 2 weeks (it's supposedly only 178 pages > but I'll believe that when I see it). I'm one of the teachers of the USDA Basic Indexing course. Many people don't do well on the first lesson. Indexing is so different from anything they've done before that they're totally flummoxed. Many of these same people go on to do quite well in the rest of the course. Don't get bent out of shape by the first assignment. I think you're wise to be skeptical about the length of the book. If I were you, I'd ask for a minimum of three weeks, just in case. And put all this in writing. You might want to add a proviso about what'll happen if the book runs over a certain number of pages. What if the thing's 800 pages long or longer? Sheesh. How much of this indexing project *is* firm? Granted, you know what you'll be charging. But is anything else clear? Consider writing a letter of agreement, even at this late date. Set out all your queries in the letter. Include the dates of your vacation. Talk about the length of the book. Are you sure you want to put yourself under all this pressure right at the very beginning of your indexing career? Perhaps you'd feel more comfortable taking on a freelance project once you've worked through more of the USDA course. With only one lesson behind you (whether you did well on it or not), are you sure that you really want to sit down and index a book now? And this is starting to sound like the Project from Hell, too. Do you really want your first experience to be a crazifying one? Signing your posting "Panicked" doesn't sound good; be kind to yourself. You may get lots of different answers to your questions. This is just my $.02. All best, Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@symnet.net) "We know the human brain is a device to keep the ears from grating on one another."--Peter De Vries ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 11:44:34 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli@aol.com Subject: Query: Term correction ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- The author of a book I am using has written a section (about 5 pages) on what he calls "plastic surgery." However, what he really means is "cosmetic surgery," i.e., surgery used solely for cosmetic purposes, rather than to correct a birth defect or injury. Later in the book there is a one-page section with several references to cosmetic surgery. Any suggestions for how to deal with this in the index? Do I use both terms with cross references? Do I index only under "cosmetic surgery" with a see reference from plastic surgery? Do I call the publisher and tell them the author has used the incorrect term? Thanks for your words of wisdom. Fred Leise "Between the Lines" Indexing and Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 11:45:04 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: AOL's "Who's Who in Indexing" ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I'm one of the teachers of the USDA course in basic indexing. One of my students told me that she'd seen my CV on AOL's "Who's Who in Indexing." I don't know what "Who's Who in Indexing" is, and I don't know how my CV got there. (Not that I mind, of course!) If anyone can explain this to me, I'd be really appreciative. And if anyone could forward my CV to me, I'd be yet more appreciative. Many thanks! Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@symnet.net) "We know the human brain is a device to keep the ears from grating on one another."--Peter De Vries ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 11:45:16 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Money Magazine article on indexing ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I read the brief Money Magazine article on indexing. Am I the only one out there, or does anyone else find it unbelievable that one can earn $50,000 per year indexing? (Translation: Since I'm only making $49,999, what am I doing wrong? ;-) ) Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@symnet.net) "We know the human brain is a device to keep the ears from grating on one another."--Peter De Vries ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 11:45:28 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey Subject: Indexing decisions ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I am currently having an argument about some choices made in an index, and would be interested to see whether there is agreement within INDEX-L about these issues. The questions refer to an index with unlimited space for a 400 page book on tobacco and smoking. 1. Which of the following would you prefer? smoking prevalence 11-19, 11t-17t, 19t, 42 and advertising 292 and anti-smoking campaigns 217-218 gender differences 311-315, 311t-316t and workplace bans 124 younger people 175, 180-181 OR smoking prevalence 11 adults 11-12, 11t-12t and advertising 292 and anti-smoking campaigns 217-218 and workplace bans 124 by country of birth 16, 17t by educational level 15-16, 16t by occupational level 14-15, 15t children 13-14, 13t-14t gender differences 311-315, 311t-316t young adults 14, 14t younger people 175, 180-181 In both cases the pages are also posted directly under the subdivision as well, e.g. there are entries for children, occupational level, etc. 2. Or would you use Prevalence as the heading? 3. Would you change your mind if you were told that the pages on prevalence were the most significant pages in the book? 4. Would you use the heading "ACIL Economics and Policy" or "ACIL Economics and Policy Pty Ltd"? 5. Would you use a general reference "cancer 45-46, see also names of specific cancers" or would you say "cancer, see also bladder cancer; endometrial cancer; lung cancer; oral cavity cancer; stomach cancer" and so on for about 10 cancers. 6. Would it make any difference to your answer if all of the relevant cancers were listed on pages 45-46? Any comments on some or all of these questions would be greatly appreciated. These are issues on which I feel stubbornly committed to one answer, but I would like to see whether my views are shared, or whether indexers are divided on these issues. Thanks, Glenda Browne. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Jermey & Glenda Browne Blaxland NSW Australia 061-47-398-199 jonathan@magna.com.au "From the motherboard on the sister ship to the brotherhood in the fatherland." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 11:45:42 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Jonathan Jermey Subject: Re: beginner's question ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > From: Rachel Rice > ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > Hope you don't mind my asking this beginner's question: I lined up my first > project, to index a book for my Rabbi. ... > Anyway, it was originally supposed to get to me in March. Then it was maybe > June. Then it was August for sure. Now it's definitely September (or not). > I'm going on a 2 week vacation in mid-October. What if the darn thing > finally does arrive, but too close to, or even during, my vacation? Part of being a professional is refusing to carry the can for other people's problems. If the book can wait six months for publication it can surely wait another two weeks for indexing. I've lost count of the times we've been told "This desperately has to be done by next week..." followed by endless delays that mean the proofs don't even get to us until six weeks later. Now we take everything with a large grain of salt. > Panicked on Martha's Vineyard Well, there are worse places to be panicked. But why do you want to take a vacation when you're already there? :-) Jonathan Jonathan Jermey & Glenda Browne Blaxland NSW Australia 61-47-398-199 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 11:46:00 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PGordis@aol.com Subject: Re: Newspaper indexing ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In terms of computer databases used for newspaper indexing, UMI in Michigan is probably the most knowledgeable source. NY Times and some other major newspapers use their own internally developed databases dating back to a time before personal computers and sophisticated commercial database software. Most of these old, idiosyncratic databases now "weigh like a nightmare on the minds of the living" (Marx brothers). Two useful, pre-computer age sources on newspaper indexing: 1. Newspaper indexing for Historical Societies, Colleges and High Schools, by Esther Perica (Monroe, NY, 1975). Not a very sophisticated treatment of the subject, but may be suitable for volunteers if they are not experienced indexers. 2. Newspaper Indexing, by Harry A. Friedman (Milwaukee, 1942). A little dated, but as far as I know the most comprehensive treatise on the subject. G. Norman Knight in his classic book, Indexing, the Art Of, considers this work the most authoritative on the subject. There are, of course, in the Indexer and other sources scattered special interest articles on Newspaper indexing as well. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 11:46:15 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: J.A.Lawrence@massey.ac.nz Subject: Macrex and paragraph numbers ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I suspect there is a simple answer to this problem and I would really appreciate if someome would share it with me I have been asked to index an adminstration manual I use MACREX The manual is arranged in sections 1-16 called surprisingly enough section one etc. Within the sections are paragraph numbers 1, 1.1, 1.2, 1.2.1 etc. However the first digit does not correspond with the section number and the authors of this document would like the index to read Section one 1.2.1, Section two 1.2.1.4 etc. Any ideas on the best way to do this so I can sort it by section and paragraph number for proof reading would be most welcome. Regards Judy Lawrence Judy Lawrence Audiovisual Librarian Massey University Library Private bag 11054 Palmerston North New Zealand Phone 64 6 3569099 ex 7839 Fax 64 6 350 5605 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 11:46:32 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Justine Carson Subject: ASI GOLDEN GATE CHAPTER ANNUAL PICNIC ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- ASI GOLDEN GATE CHAPTER ANNUAL PICNIC Join chapter members for socializing, networking, and a short business meeting. Date: Saturday, September 30, 1995 Time: 11:00 to 3:00 Place: Lindley Meadow, Tables 6 & 7 Bring: Your own sandwich/main dish, utensils, non-alcoholic beverage, plus a salad or dessert to share Barbecue grills are available and there is a large open area suitable for softball, badminton, frisbee, etc. Bring your own sports equipment. Directions within Golden Gate Park: Go west on Fulton St. (#5 Fulton bus) toward Ocean Beach. Turn left (south) onto 30th Ave. and go one block to T-junction with JFK Drive where you will be facing the middle of Lindley Meadow, across the street. Turn right (west) on JFK Drive and go 1/2 block and park. (Do not go as far as the stop sign between Spreckels Lake and the horse stables.) Find ASI group in the western area of Lindley Meadow. RSVP: Justine Carson (jhcarson@netcom.com) or (408) 647-1658 -- _______________________________________________________________________________ Justine Carson jhcarson@netcom.com