========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 09:25:54 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Contr Karl E. Vogel" Organization: Control Data Systems Inc. Subject: Re: Indexing the Internet (1 of 2) ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >> On Fri, 20 Jan 1995 11:35:41 ECT, >> Jeff Williams said: Jeff> Would anyone in this mailing list be interested in discussing Jeff> techniques for indexing the Internet? Do you know of anyone outside Jeff> this mailing list who is interested in this project or is currently Jeff> working on it? Sender: spin-l@silverplatter.com From: Subject: Internet Index on SilverPlatter Web Server X-Comment: SilverPlatter Information, Inc. The Internet Index is a project that began several months ago when we began to train staff on using the Internet. We observed that people were frustrated because they couldn't locate information on the Internet unless they knew where it was located, and the address. The Internet Index is a Web page that indexes information alphabetically and by subject, with links that give immediate access to the information. The Internet Index is different from any of the existing Internet search utilities (like archie or the World Wide Web Worm) since it provides immediate access to the source, whether the source resides on a Web server, gopher, or ftp server. The Internet Index has two components; an alphabetical index (arranged by title), and a subject index. For example, if you look under C in the alphabetical index, you would see an entry for the Charter of the United Nations. If you click on that link, the text of the Charter appears on your screen. (Under U in the alphabetical index, there is an entry for the United Nations as the author of this document). In the subject index, the Charter of the United Nations is listed under Historic Documents. Authors are listed in the Internet Index, but links to documents are from titles in the Index. Access to the Internet Index is free. SilverPlatter considers this to be a way to enhance access to information. We want people who use the Internet, including librarians, to contribute sources to the Internet Index. We hope that the Internet Index will become a tool, created by and for Internet users, that enables anyone to easily locate information. There is an entry for the Internet Index on SilverPlatter's Home Page on our Web server. The URL is: http://www.silverplatter.com Instructions for submitting entries for the Internet Index are included on the Internet Index Home Page. Comments or suggestions about the Internet Index can be sent to: Gerry Hurley Librarian, Director of Educational Services Internet: gerryh@silverplatter.com ***************************************************************** SilverPlatter Information, Inc. SilverPlatter Information, Ltd. 100 River Ridge Drive 10 Barley Mow Passage Norwood, MA 02062 Chiswick, London W4 4PH Phone: 800-343-0064 (US/Canada) Phone: 0800-262-096 (UK) 617-769-2599 +44-81-995-8242 Fax: 617-769-8763 Fax: +44-81-995-5159 Internet: info@silverplatter.com or support@silverplatter.com ***************************************************************** -- Karl Vogel vogelke@c-17igp.wpafb.af.mil ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 09:26:11 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Contr Karl E. Vogel" Organization: Control Data Systems Inc. Subject: Re: Indexing the Internet (2 of 2) ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >> On Fri, 20 Jan 1995 11:35:41 ECT, >> Jeff Williams said: Jeff> Would anyone in this mailing list be interested in discussing Jeff> techniques for indexing the Internet? Do you know of anyone outside Jeff> this mailing list who is interested in this project or is currently Jeff> working on it? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 12 Aug 1994 09:10:34 -0400 From: Hunter Monroe To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Four different Internet Cataloguing Projects There appear to be four different projects working on the cataloguing of the Internet, all working in blissful ignorance of one another (until now). Can anyone add to this list (please email to me personally)? Here are their URLs: CATRIONA (requirements for an Internet OPAC) one Alex (working catalogue) two two Usenet U/Global Network Academy (working catalogue): three OCLC/LoC Internet Cataloguing Project (MARC standards) four (for some poi nters) I will try to keep up a list of such items at the last URL above (they are not there quite yet). CATaloguing and Retrieval of Information Over Networks Applications(CATRIONA) ---------------------- CATRIONA is a 6 month feasibility study funded by the British Library Research And Development Division. Details of its progress(it began mid July 1994 and will run to mid January 1995) will be kept in this section. At this early stage there is no progress to report. What follows are the edited 'highlights' of the proposal put to BLRDD. Comments on this are welcome and should be sent to d.m.nicholson@strath.ac.uk Purpose ------- The purpose behind the CATRIONA project is to investigate the technical, organisational and financial requirements for the development of applications programs and procedures to enable the cataloguing, classification, and retrieval of documents and other resources over networks, and to explore the feasibility of a library system supplier led collaborative project to develop such applications and procedures and integrate them with one or more existing library housekeeping systems and associated OPAC interfaces. The Context Of The Project -------------------------- If the so-called 'library without walls' is ever to become a reality, the problem of how the user is to find resources and services appropriate to her/his needs must first be solved. Arguably, the answer to this lies in combining an adaptation of new software technologies with an adaptation of establised library methods and practices. Libraries already catalogue and classify local resources and make them accessible through local Opacs. Increasingly, these Opacs include descriptions of electronic items held by the library. Some of the more modern library systems, moreover, allow the user who has retrieved a record of an electronic item of interest to then retrieve and display/play on the workstation the electronic item itself. Taking this a step further, it is, probably, only a matter of time before all significant electronic items authored at an institution are given an entry in the library Opac and made retrievable/playable through library campus workstations. Many of these items will be held on the library electronic documents server, but many will also be on other servers around the campus(eg in the multi-media unit or in the Computer Centre) - that is, retrieval will be networked and distributed. Taking this to its logical conclusion, there will(or if the LIS profession is doing its job, should) come a time when all significant electronic items in the world are in some library catalogue somewhere. Items for inclusion in specific catalogues will be chosen on the basis they are now. Acquired/purchased items will be catalogued and, if free publishing continues to flourish, free items produced elsewhere will be stored and catalogued locally if they happen to be important or popular at the local site. Moreover, since libraries will also continue to do some of the other things they do now, items catalogued locally will find their way into online union catalogues, or national catalogues (NLS, BL etc), or bibliographic databases (eg OCLC, BLCMP, CURL). None of this has happened yet, of course, but it doesn't take much imagination to see that this is an obvious way to go, given that the standards, procedures, structures, and organisations are all already in place in the library world. This, therefore, is the obvious way to ensure that all significant electronic items available over networks like the Internet are catalogued and classified, and it takes us part of the way towards making the 'virtual library' a practical proposition. It is not enough, in itself, however. At least two other things are required. There must be a means of enhancing catalogue records so that they can include the information needed to allow the electronic item to be retrieved from a remote networked source. And there must also be client software capable of utilising this information to retrieve the item from the wide range of servers of the various kinds of 'electronic item' out there and of displaying/playing the item once it has been retrieved. qIt is likely that the basis of the means for enhancing a MARC record to allow this kind of network retrieval already exists in the shape of the URLs utilised by WWW clients and servers(a Web client can utilise a URL to retrieve an item from various kinds of servers all over the world) and a development of this, a URN (Universal Resource Name) which is under discussion. Moreover, work is going on to allow this sort of enhancement to become an integral part of accepted cataloguing standard. The following is taken from a report on the OCLC Internet Resources Cataloguing Experiment: USMARC Advisory Group; OCLC Internet Resources Cataloging Experiment Sponsoring Organisations: OCLC, Library of Congress, USMARC Advisory Group OCLC and the Library of Congress have formed a working group to consider how libraries can create cataloging records for online information resources. The group initiated a cataloging experiment designed to test and verify the applicability of the cataloging rules and the USMARC format for computer files. Guidelines have been written for cataloging Internet resources and are being considered by the American Library Association committee responsible for maintaining the Anglo- American Cataloging Rules. Changes to the USMARC format were initiated to accommodate a subset of these materials (electronic,data resources, such as software, electronic text, bibliographic andnonbibliographic databases). USMARC format changes which were approved included an identification of type of file and a field for location and access of the resource (very much like a URL). An enhanced catalogue record, however, is of no value unless there also exists client software which can utilise it to find and retrieve and 'translate' the document itself. World Wide Web clients can utilise URLs in this way and web servers can serve them up. However, both the server and, more particularly, the client software will also require other features. For some time to come, library catalogues will contain descriptions not only of electronic documents but also of more standard documents, and users will wish to find a mix of the two to solve a particular information problem. So the client program will also have to be capable of being an ordinary Opac interface like the GUI clients already available on more modern library systems. Another feature the client program will require is the ability to do wais-like distributed searches. The user may want/need to search other catalogues(eg other 'local' opacs, or regional databases, or national or even international databases(NLS? BL? OCLC? CURL?)), either at the same time as the local catalogue or after the failure of a local search. At the moment, as far as is known by the applicant, neither Opac clients nor WWW clients can do this(WAIS clients can). Finally, since some of the remote opacs will be of a different type to the local server, the client will have to be a Z39.50 client and, of course, any 8test-bed opac/server will also have to be Z39.50. Since the idea is to be able to retrieve items from a whole host of types of service a wide range of 'document servers' will have to be utilisable. Such a range is already available, of course, over the Internet. It seems to me, therfore, that all of the threads exist for solving one of the major things standing in the way of the development of the 'library without walls'. What the CATRIONA pilot project would do would be to research the various threads with a view to establishing the feasibility of bringing the threads together, merging them, and adapting them in such a way as to provide a practical solution to the problem. In the process, it would sketch out a specification for the client and server software required and for the enhancements required in the catalogue record and establish the what range of skills and participants would be needed to develop a demonstrator set-up. This, of course, would be another project and would require additional funding. Contact address: d.m.nicholson@strath.ac.uk -- Karl Vogel vogelke@c-17igp.wpafb.af.mil ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 09:26:37 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Indexing the Internet ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In response to Jeff Williams (INTERNET:jrw@garnet.msen.com) Jeff -- INTERPEDIA is a digest discussion list you might be interested in joining. It's goal is to develop an encyclopedia-like interface to the Internet, with hypetext links to connect users to various Internet resources. I haven't subscribed to it for the past few months, so I don't know the status of their work. However, when I last subscribed, there was some discussion on indexing and classification systems, and they were looking for professional volunteers to assist with the task. To subscribe to INTERPEDIA, send an e-mail message to: INTERPEDIA-REQUEST@telerama.lm.com and to post a message to the list, send it to: INTERPEDIA@telerama.lm.com Lori Lathrop ----------> INTERNET:76620.456@compuserve.com Lathrop Media Services, P.O. Box 808, Georgetown, CO 80444 (Author of _An Indexer's Guide to the Internet_ published by ASI) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 09:26:49 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Judith Weigel Subject: Re: Indexing the Internet In-Reply-To: <199501201831.KAA12248@.latimes.com> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I have been thinking about this for some time. Look at Veronica, and the recreation of it to use subject lines for "indexing". I think this is fertile (and unplowed) ground! Judy Weigel, Database Construction, Los Angeles Times, Editorial Library ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 09:27:08 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jeff Finlay, NYU" Organization: St. Peter's College, US Subject: Re: Indexing the Internet ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > I am a person who would like to play a role in indexing the Internet. > I have some ideas on how it can be done. Perhaps more importantly I > am a believer: I believe it can be done! Why bother? It seems kind of pointless given that you can keyword search any subject via the web or gopher. Jeff ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 09:32:39 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JCPO@aol.com Subject: Re: Indexing Tools ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Since we're on the subject of indexing tools it would be a good time for me to tell you about Boswell's Companion. Boswell is a Macintosh system for creating and managing collections of keywords and subject headings, classification lists and thesauri. I have been developing it for some time now, since I attempted to catalog a collection of clippings and realised that I had nothing in the way of an authority list. Structurally, Boswell's recreates the 3x5 index-card system as described in Helen Townley's and Ralph Gee's book, Thesaurus Making - Grow Your Own Word Stock (London,1980, Andre Deutsch). It has fields for broader, narrower and related terms as well as scope notes. It handles non-preferred terms pointed to preferred usages. It has tools for checking the symmetry of cross-references, making sub-groups of terms, importing text files and generating a variety of outputs. It turned out that Boswell is also good for making glossaries. Accordingly, I used it last year to update BMUG's Glossary of Macintosh terms (800 entries) for publication in their Fall 1994 Newsletter (BMUG is the Berkeley Macintosh User Group). A HyperCard edition of that glossary is available online, on ftp sites which mirror the info-mac archive at sumex, including anonymous ftp at mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu//pub/info-mac/info. It's also located in the HyperCard libraries of America Online and Compuserve. The glossary is one output creature of Boswell, and has some of the feel of the parent system. More glossaries are in the works. Boswell's Companion is intended to aid the single-person-in-the-cubicle information department. I suspect that it may be useful to some of the readers of this mailing list. For more info, please contact me directly at JCPO@aol.com. John Chapot "Lexicographer - a harmless drudge." -- Samuel Johnson ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 09:33:07 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Theodore Morris Subject: Re: Indexing the Internet In-Reply-To: <199501201828.NAA25847@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu> from "Jeff Williams" at Jan 20, 95 11:35:41 am ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Funny you should mention this, I wrote a paper last quarter on a part of the issue, for Dr. Kate McCain's Abstracting and Indexing course. The paper was pitched at the level of "what we are doing and what we can do," so it had some elements of a mini-review about it. I was mostly noting the two major approaches people seem to be taking: 1) putting together pre-determined (or ad hoc, on-the-fly) subject heading listings, either from manually-discovered or from volunteered information, and assigning URLs into a web stemming from these headings (is that a mixed metaphor?); and 2) by post-processing information "discovered" by "robots" (aka "daemons"), programs designed to automatically traverse network links looking for systems which will let them in to examine directory listings, etc. Archie does this kind of exploration, btw. SilverPlatter's service is one of many examples of the first type. A big issue with the latter types is the choice of information points within a file from which to glean "useful" indexing information. Who picks and is it a rich-enough source (Gerald Salton would say yes, it is). Harvest, from Michael Schwartz' group at U.Colorado, is a slick project that not only goes out and identifies ftp file archives (a la Archie), but also the files, usually the first couple of paragraphs of .txt or .doc files, header information in .gif files, certain declarations in the structure of .src files, etc. It uses a modularized approach called Essence which consists of the parsing engine and a set of protocols to apply to standard file types. Essence's protocols can even read through compression schemes like .tar, .Z, etc., to get at those juicy tidbits of textual info from which to try to obtain indexing terms. The results are reported out of Harvest in WAIS-compatible format, for post-processing with your favorite server/client/etc. I think this is the farthest-along project, going beyond some of the more basic "web-crawling" programs like WebCrawler, Yahoo, Lycos, etc. There have been so many of these programs written and launched, that information providers have had to set a flag on their systems to signal "no robots, please" so their systems don't get dragged down serving automated directory requests, to the detriment of "legitimate" users. Robots which don't respect the flag (and their progenitors) are looked upon with--disfavor. There are two other groups I was particularly interested to learn about: one is Lou Rosenfeld's group at U.Michigan SLIS (the folks who do the Clearinghouse of Subject Oriented Resource Guides) which is also conducting studies on people's preferences for various gopher menu structures based on DDC terms (if I recall correctly). The other is in Norway (sorry, I don't have my cites in front of me right now) and they are putting together a web-server html structure organized around terms taken from the top two levels of the Universal Decimal Classification (UDC). Well. If you're still interested after all that, let me know and I'll see if I can get my wp file loaded up as ASCII text, suitable for mailing. Best of luck! Ted Morris -- Drexel Univ. College of Information Studies: sg94548n@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu; Univ. Cincinnati Med. Center Libs: Theodore.Morris@uc.edu (on leave 94-95) Theodore A. Morris, WB8VNV | PREVIOUS POLITICALLY INCORRECT TAG LINE REMOVED. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 09:33:56 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: RachelR@aol.com Subject: Re: Please explain USDA course...? ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Anne, Here's the number for the USDA Corresp. school. 1-202-720-7123. Just say you want a catalog. There are 2 indexing courses, basic and advanced, the basic is $281, and the advanced is, I think, $275. I'm on the 3rd lesson and think it's an excellent course, but the turnaround time (from sending out a completed lesson to getting a response from the instructor) is very slow. It took 7 weeks to get my first 2 lessons back. I absolutely can't imagine having tried to index without taking such a course. Good luck, Rachel Rice 508-645-3866 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 09:34:19 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Anne M. Brennan" Subject: Anyone aware of a COPYEDITING listserv? ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I've heard of a listserv which centers around copyediting topics, but I don't know where it's based or how to subscribe. Has anyone heard of it, and if so, could you let me know the subscription address? Thanks! I've been reading this listserve for about a month with much interest. Thanks to everyone who sent me info about the USDA indexing course. Anne Brennan St. Charles, Illinois (Ball Publishing, Batavia, Illinois) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 10:30:34 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Paula Presley Subject: Deadline: ASI Hines Award Nomination In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of MON 23 JAN 1995 08:25:14 CST ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In the Nov/Dec issue of ASI's newsletter, KeyWords, we announced the new Ted HInes Award. The purpose of the award is "to recognize that individual who has shown continuous dedicated and exceptional service to the membership of ASI." The official rules for the award are printed in full on pp. 28-29 of the Nov/Dec Keywords. Briefly, the nominee should be a current or past member of ASI. Because KeyWords got caught in the December mail rush and many people didn't get the information before the deadline of Jan. 15, we have EXTENDED THE DEADLINE TO FEB. 1. Any questions? Call me, write me on e-mail, or fax me at any of the following addresses. Thanks. Paula Presley Assoc. Editor, The Thomas Jefferson University Press Copy Editor, The Sixteenth Century Journal Northeast Missouri State University McClain Hall 111L Kirksville, MO 63501 (816) 785-4525 FAX (816) 785-4181 Bitnet: AD15@NEMOMUS Internet: AD15%NEMOMUS@Academic.NEMOState.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 09:53:04 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Anita Morton Subject: Re: Anyone aware of a COPYEDITING listserv? In-Reply-To: from "Anne M. Brennan" at Jan 23, 95 09:34:19 am ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Hi Anne, send email to: listproc@cornell.edu Leave subject line blank. In subject area, type:> sub copyediting-l your name Anita P.S. It is very active, and sometimes kind of silly. ------------------------------------------------------------------- A. Morton 2553 Scarth Court Mississauga, Ontario email: morton@interlog.com Canada Phone: (905) 821-3714 L5M 5L2 Fax: (905) 542-7874 ------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 09:54:04 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Donnie Curtis Subject: Re: Indexing the Internet In-Reply-To: <9501231458.AA06955@lib.nmsu.edu> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- This is probably not the right forum for this question, but the opportunity has presented itself, and I am taking it. In my library we have a well-developing gopher, but we've been asked to do a web too. In our discussions about the strengths and weaknesses of web and gopher, it has been mentioned that gopher DOES have this keyword searchability you refer to, through Veronica, and through the "/" search of All the Gophers in the World. But we haven't been able to find a comparable way to do a keyword search of all the web sites. If we hear about a gopher, or section of a gopher, we can usually track it down within minutes, and link to it. But web sites seem more elusive. And the web is growing like crazy. Is there some method we haven't heard of to approach it by subject? I pose the question to the list because if there is a way, there is probably more than one way, and because others would probably be interested in the answer(s) too. Donnie Curtis dcurtis@lib.nmsu.edu On Mon, 23 Jan 1995, Jeff Finlay, NYU wrote: > Why bother? It seems kind of pointless given that you can keyword > search any subject via the web or gopher. > > Jeff > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 16:15:12 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: HairyLarry@aol.com Subject: Re: Indexing the Internet ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- On Mon, 23 Jan 1995, Jeff Finlay, NYU wrote: > Why bother? It seems kind of pointless given that you can keyword > search any subject via the web or gopher. > > Jeff Jeff, an index is different and much more valuable than a keyword search capability. There is much to be said about this, but I will start with just one item: there is a tremendous difference between a key *word* search and a subject (or concept) search, because of the wide and uncontrollable variation in terms used to describe or categorize the subject you seek. This is the main issue and challenge of effective indexing, no matter what the source material. I would have said, "Why bother, since it (the 'Net) is so dynamic?" Larry Harrison Hairylarry@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 13:17:02 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Georgianna Subject: Re: Indexing the Internet In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 24 Jan 1995 16:15:12 ECT from ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Won't you feel like the little Dutch boy? Is is possible to index such huge volume? Georgianna Henry University of Mississippi ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 13:17:16 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jessica Milstead <76440.2356@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Indexing the Internet ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Re-echoing the quote that Donnie Curtis echoed: > Why bother? It seems kind of pointless given that you can keyword > search any subject via the web or gopher. > I can't resist putting my oar in here, even though I'm not a regular Internet user. True, you can keyword search on the web and gophers -- the key words that have been attached to the file by the source which mounted it. If these key words happen to match the words you think of for your search you're all set. If they don't match . . . that's where indexing comes in. Jessica Milstead The JELEM Company P.O. Box 5063 Brookfield, CT 06804 76440.2356@compuserve.com Voice: (203) 740-2433 Fax: (203) 740-1152 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 13:17:29 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kari Bero Subject: Re: Indexing the Internet In-Reply-To: <9501242228.AA13522@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Jeff- I, too, used to have this reaction "why bother when you have these other ways of getting the info you need". But if you look at Lexis/Nexis as an example of a database that has only keyword searching, but _no_ index or subject searching, you quickly see why an index or subject searching are useful. That is, when you are dealing with vast quantities of information, keyword searching will give you _tons_ of false hits. With the 'net, it can be quite frustrating to get to the sites you find, only to see that it has very little relevant to your needs. I, personally, still hesitate with a project as large as the Internet. But I admire those who have the motivation, energy, and (most of all) time to work on this. Good Luck! There is a good possibility that your names will go down in 'net history. - Kari J. Bero Bero-West Indexing Services 3722 Beach Drive SW 101 Seattle, WA 98116 (206) 937-3673 bero@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 13:17:44 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan Fleischmann 73073.2157" <73073.2157@compuserve.com> Subject: Indexing software for non-indexers? ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- --- Forwarded Message --- Date: 24-Jan-95 00:59 EST From: Jan Fleischmann 73073.2157 [73073,2157] Subj: Indexing software for non-indexers? What software might one use to generate a keyword index from an existing large DOS text file? The index will be used by one individual only. It won't be a polished product for others to use. He'll probably want to print it, since it might be long, and this would save him doing a high number of searches/finds on the data file. I think he'd spent $100 or maybe even more since this involves a court case. He's computer savvy but has no indexing experience. Distribution: To: [73073,2157] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 09:13:36 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Efthimis N. Efthimiadis" Subject: SIGIR-95: Poster sessions ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- For those of you who may have missed the deadline for submission of papers to the ACM/SIGIR Conference in Seattle - you still have time to submit a poster. Details follow! ************************ CALL FOR POSTERS SIGIR'95 ************************ 18th International Conference on Research and Development in Information Retrieval The Sheraton, Seattle, WA, USA July 9 - July 13, 1995 ------------------------------------------------------------------- POSTERS -------------------------------------------------------------------- SIGIR '95 will include poster presentations to enable researchers an opportunity to present late-breaking results, significant work in progress, or research that is best communicated in conversational mode. Poster presenters will have the opportunity to exchange ideas one-on-one with attendees and to discuss their work in detail with those most deeply interested in the same topic. Posters will be reviewed by appropriate subject specialists as well as the Program Committee and will be selected on the basis of their contribution to research-focused discussion. Posters will be accepted a full month later than papers in order to provide an opportunity for submitting very current work that need not be written up in a full paper. Abstracts of posters will appear in the conference proceedings. Authors will be expected to be present at their posters to describe their work and answer questions on Monday, July 10, from 5: pm to 10:00 pm. Doctoral students are encouraged to consider poster submission as a viable means for discussing ongoing dissertation research. Submissions shall be made to the Posters Chair and shall consist of: (a) Abstract shall be submitted in three copies. (b) An extended abstract of approximately three to four pages. (c) Abstract shall emphasize the research problem, the approach or methodology being used, and why the work is important. (d) A separate cover page with the title of the poster, the name and affiliation of the author(s)/presenter(s), as well as complete contact information to include postal address, email address, phone number and fax number of the author(s). IMPORTANT DATES FEB. 10, 1995 Submission of proposals for tutorials, panels, demonstrations, posters, and workshops to the relevant Chair MAR. 10, 1995 Author notification APR. 3, 1995 Final manuscript due in camera ready and electronic forms POSTERS CHAIR Elizabeth D. Liddy School of Information Studies 4-206 Syracuse University Syracuse, New York 13244-4100 email: liddy@mailbox.syr.edu phone: +1-315-443-4456 fax: +1-315-443-5806 ************************************************************ FOR FURTHER INFORMATION Detailed information regarding the conference is available via anonymous ftp from ftp.u.washington.edu (/public/sigir95/cfp). A full version of the Call for Papers (with all the details for submissions) is also available at the URL: http://info.sigir.acm.org./sigir/ under Upcoming Events ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 09:14:02 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey Subject: Re: conversion files between IBM-PC and Macintosh types ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >Hi - I' relatively new at indexing (completed the USDA Basic Indexing >course last fall). I use Cindex on an IBM compatible computer. I am >not at familiar with Macintosh computers. My question has to do with >conversion between IBM-PC type files and Macintosh files. I understand >that the RTF file type put out by Cindex can be read by a Macintosh if >there is a DOS mounter on the Macintosh. What if there isn't a DOS >mounter? Also, what if a customer with a Macintosh wants to send you >their project on a disk instead of a printed manuscript? Any easy way >to read their file on a PC? Does anyone have any experience with >programs that convert the files? A software supplier suggested a program >called Conversion Plus, but wasn't sure exactly what it would do. >Any help would be appreciated. I have a potential customer (actually a >relative who lives on the other side of the country) who uses a Macintosh. >Thanks for any help anyone can offer. >Pat Dwyer-Hallquist (patdh@well.sf.ca.us) > > > Dear Pat I haven't had this particular problem, but I have had some experience of Mac-IBM conversions in other contexts. Let me take your questions one at a time: 1. What if there isn't a DOS mounter? The problem here is essentially a hardware one. RTF is an ASCII-based format: that is, all the characters in an RTF file are in the ASCII character set, which all computers can read. The trouble is that a Mac won't normally accept and read the contents of a DOS floppy disk, so either special hardware (a DOS mounter) or other means are necessary to transfer the information. This can be done: a) via a serial cable if the computers are in the same room; b) via a network connection if the computers are in the same building; c) via modems if the computers are both equipped with them and can be on at the same time; d) via the Internet if c) is not possible. All of these will require communications software and cables, etc. Method d) will require a storage area on the Net that both computers can access via binary ftp. Another potential problem: in an RTF files the fonts used are identified by name - but the Mac may not have fonts with the same name installed. This may require some global changes to font names when the file gets into Mac format. 2. Also, what if a customer with a Macintosh wants to send you their project on a disk instead of a printed manuscript? Although it's theoretically possible to index directly from a file on disk, in practice it seems to be very messy - what about all the illustrations, blank pages, etc? - so you're probably better off getting a final copy of the manuscript printed out for indexing purposes. Then you can use highlighting pens with gay abandon instead of fiddling around making selections with the mouse. If that's not possible then all the above applies: just get your client to save the manuscript file in RTF format before they send it across. 3 . Does anyone have any experience with programs that convert the files? A software supplier suggested a program called Conversion Plus, but wasn't sure exactly what it would do. As discussed above, the problem is not with file conversion but with file transfer between different machines. Hope this helps - I'll post a copy to the listserver as well. Good luck! Jonathan. Jonathan Jermey & Glenda Browne Blaxland NSW (047) 398-199 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 09:15:34 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey Subject: Re: INDEXING AND MS ACCESS ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >Hi Laura - Thx for your question about MS Access. I was about to ask the same >question about dBASE. Could index listers please respond with their experience >s (pro and con) if any utilizing general database management software as indexi >ng tools. > Lillian Ashworth Dear Lillian, I attempted to write an indexing program in dBase some years ago. It was a qualified success. One problem was that the variety of types of entries and formats that clients required made it difficult to write a program that could deal with all of them. At the moment I have plans to try a name indexing program in Access - but for general purpose subject indexing I don't think you can go past Cindex or Macrex. If you do want to do it in a database management system, make sure you have a good relationship with a competent programmer, and you're not in a hurry. Hope this helps Jonathan Jonathan Jermey & Glenda Browne Blaxland NSW (047) 398-199 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 09:16:47 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Theodore Morris Subject: Re: Indexing the Internet In-Reply-To: <199501252127.QAA24881@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu> from "Jessica Milstead" at Jan 25, 95 01:17:16 pm ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Re-Jeff's: > > Why bother? It seems kind of pointless given that you can keyword > search any subject via the web or gopher. This is a pet peeve of mine :-( The big thing is "what information are you searching in that keyword search, and how well does it really describe the document you're fetching? Veronica only looks at a human's description in a Gopher menu, which may actually be more useful than Archie that only looks at often-cryptic file names. Harvest builds an index based on its examination of the documents themselves (including graphic files, binaries, compressed files, etc.) and picking words out of the first paragraph of texts, headers of .gifs, data structures of binaries, etc., to try to "enrich" the database of info being searched. If you've got a lousy (or lossy!) surrogate to search, you're going to have lousy (and unsatisfying) retrieval. But that "unsatisfying" begs a whole other question, doesn't it...:-) Ted Morris -- Drexel Univ. College of Information Studies: sg94548n@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu; Univ. Cincinnati Med. Center Libs: Theodore.Morris@uc.edu Theodore A. Morris, WB8VNV | PREVIOUS POLITICALLY INCORRECT TAG LINE REMOVED. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 16:21:49 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Pfeffer, Andrea" Subject: THESAURUS CONSTRUCTION SOFTWARE ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I am interested in obtaining information about Thesaurus Construction Software. I work on a biomedical thesaurus which is currently on a mainframe, and want to convert it to a PC-based system. If anyone has information about possible software, please respond to this e-mail. Thank You ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 16:34:17 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: REVANS4509@aol.com Subject: Re: Indexing the Internet ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Here's a real example of the pitfalls of keyword searches. I'm a tech writer and I have written a number of manuals for telecommunications software, including IBM's mainframe programs VTAM and NCP. I submitted a resume' to a placement agency seeking tech writing work. I heard nothing for several months, then they called today to see if I was interested in a job as a network systems programmer, a position for which I have zero qualification. It seems they just tossed my resume' into a database and did a keyword seach on "VTAM" or "NCP" and assumed I was programmer. Wasted their time and mine. On top of that, I have no faith whatsoever that my resume' will be (or has been) considered for the work I really want. Dick Evans ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 16:20:20 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kathleen J. M. Haynes" Organization: SLIS, University of Oklahoma Subject: Re: classification ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Try Langridge, Erek Wilton. Classification: Its kinds, elements and applications. London: Bowker-Saur, 1992 ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Does anyone know of any good references on the topic of CLASSIFICATION, in comparison with indexing, its function, value, usefulness, etc.? I and my colleagues are preparing a presentation on indexing, classification, and thesaurus maintenance that will be given to an audience of academic-type people with subject-matter expertise (psychology) but virtually no knowledge of the information industry. We would like to have some good, solid, industry information to use as hand-outs or pre-meeting reading for them and are having trouble finding good materials about classification. (The other two parts, indexing & thsaurus, are in pretty good shape, but we're open to suggestions for them also.) Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks! Sarah Mulholland PsycINFO snm.apa@email.apa.org Kathleen J. M. Haynes, Ph.D. Associate Professor School of Library and Information Studies University of Oklahoma ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 16:22:13 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MCLAUGHB@cgs.edu Subject: ASI SoCal Program, Feb. 18 ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- AMERICAN SOCIETY OF INDEXERS SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA CHAPTER PROGRAM ANNOUNCEMENT Rochelle M. Hoelke, EA IS IT DEDUCTIBLE? It doesn't take a tax professional to tell you your postage, pens, and paper are deductible. That's why we will seek out the Missing Deductions: those business expenses that may be understated, or absent, from your tax return. Particular attention will be given to the home office--how to qualify for, and claim, this valuable deduction, and tax planning for the sale of your home/office. Rochelle Hoelke is an enrolled agent and has been in the tax field since 1990. She has taught taxation from the basic tax return through advanced tax topics. Enrolled agents are individuals licensed by the federal government to represent taxpayers before the Internal Revenue Service. Unlike lawyers or CPAs, Enrolled Agents specialize in taxation. Join us for this opportunity to hear and ask questions about this important topic. Only $20.00 for luncheon, the program, and good conversation with other information professionals. Saturday, February 18 11:30 A.M. Blakes (formerly the Velvet Turtle), Covina The restaurant is located in the east wing of the Embassy Suites Hotel at the Holt Avenue exit of the 10 freeway. From the west, exit at Holt, and turn left onto Garvey, which runs in front of the hotel. From the east, exit onto Holt and proceed straight ahead on Garvey. Telephone: 818-966- 3606. Please send the reservation form below, along with your check made out to ASI, by February 16 to Bonny McLaughlin, 7391 Mt. Laurel Drive, Highland, CA 92346. ______________________________________________________ I will attend the luncheon and tax program on February 18, 1995, at Blakes Restaurant, Covina. I am enclosing my check for $20.00, made out to ASI. Name:____________________________________Tel. No._______________ Menu choices: Top Sirloin Teriyaki Steak, Chicken Marsala, Catch of the Day, Angel Hair Pasta with Roma Tomatoes ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 16:22:36 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey Subject: Re: Indexing software for non-indexers? ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > >--- Forwarded Message --- > >Date: 24-Jan-95 00:59 EST >From: Jan Fleischmann 73073.2157 [73073,2157] >Subj: Indexing software for non-indexers? > >What software might one use to generate >a keyword index from an existing large DOS >text file? The index will be used by one individual >only. It won't be a polished product for >others to use. He'll probably want to print >it, since it might be long, and this would >save him doing a high number of searches/finds >on the data file. I think he'd spent $100 or >maybe even more since this involves a court >case. He's computer savvy but has no indexing >experience. There is an Australian text-retrieval program called ISYS which will generate and maintain an automatic index for fast retrieval of any keyword in context from a large volume of text. (Fast = instantaneously from a file of 300Kb or more). It's more than $100, but it can be used to produce any number of indexes on the same system - I don't know if there's a run-time version thayt coiuld be distributed. Jonathan Jermey & Glenda Browne Blaxland NSW (047) 398-199 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 16:52:16 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a)" Subject: INDEX-L: error report from GODZILLA.LIB.PDX.EDU RE: Thesaurus construction software Ask for a demo disk of: MultiTes 5.2, "Thesaurus construction made easy." From: MultiSystems, P.O. Box 833205, Miami FL 33283-3205 (FAX: (305) 387-2386. Internet: 74563.435@compuserve.com. This is a standalone system for thesauri development and management on PCs. Demo is free. Full system is around $448/single user. > ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > I am interested in obtaining information about Thesaurus Construction > Software. I work on a biomedical thesaurus which is currently on a > mainframe, and want to convert it to a PC-based system. If anyone has > information about possible software, please respond to this e-mail. > > Thank You > ++++++++ William Abrams +++++++++ ++++ Chief Serials Cataloger ++++ +++ Portland State Univ. Lib. +++ +++++++++ P.O. Box 1151 +++++++++ ++++++ Portland, OR 97207 +++++++ ++++++++ (503) 725-4574 +++++++++ +++++++ FAX: 503 725 5799 +++++++ ++ abrams@godzilla.lib.pdx.edu ++