From LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.eduFri Aug 25 11:00:02 1995 Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 10:55:21 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB To: Julius Ariail Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9506E" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 14:01:37 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Robert W. Gardner" Subject: Re: Using bis and ter In-Reply-To: from "Hazel Blumberg-McKee" at Jun 28, 95 08:57:19 am ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- While I've never ever seen bis, ter, or their followers in my one year as an indexer, I've had several occasions when I've wished I could indicate that there were separate and separated occurrences of the same topic on a single page. If bis and ter aren't winning many friends out there, has anyone used any alternative approaches? (I don't think 23(2) is even as enlightening to the index user as bis would be, unless there is a note at the front of the index as to what it means...which could be done with bis as well.) ********************************* * Bob Gardner * * RGARDNER@POLAR.BOWDOIN.EDU * * 207-729-4872 fax 725-3023 * ********************************* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 14:01:51 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: Using biz by Norman Knight ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Matt, Many thanks for clarifying the mystery of "biz" or bis!! It sounds like a wonderfully elegant device, but it has the fatal flaw of no one (apparently) knowing what it means. After all, if we indexers don't know what it means, it's highly unlikely that index users will understand it either. (Believe me, it took guts for me to ask what it meant because I was afraid that I was the only one who hadn't encountered it before. Whew!!) Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs You wrote: > >----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >Lynn, > >Since you, and others, might not have access to Knight's out of print >book, I have typed in the pertinent info. Under the section entitled, >"Dividing up the text page" the third paragraph begins: > > "The user can be helped on occasion by the use of the Latin words >bis and ter after page references. It sometimes happens that an item is >alluded to in two or more quite unconnected passages on the same page; a >simple reference (say 172) in the index will direct the user to that page >where he may find an allusion near the top, but, this not being what he is >seeking, he may conclude that it is not there, when all the time it was >waiting for him in a second allusion lower down. In such a case, by >employing 172 bis (="twice") or 172 ter (="thrice") or even 172 quater >(="four times") the indexer can provide adequate warning and prevent the >catastrophe. > Some indexers object to using bis and ter, which they characterize >as unnecessary spoon-feeding of the user; it is his business, they >maintain, to read in its entirety any page to which he may be directed in >the index. But such a contention makes no allowance for the pace at which >life is perforce lived today or for human nature. In any event the >practice (of using bis and ter) meets with the approval of the British >Standard, while I for one feel that any device is well worth while whereby >the path of people who consult indexes is made smoother with a minimum of >extra labour for the indexer. > Whenever bis and ter are used in an index, they must be briefly >explained in its preliminary note. > Instead of bis and ter, some indexers like to put numbers in >parenthesis immediately after the page references: 23(2), 17(3)." > > >Matt Miller >memiller@netcom.com > >On Thu, 22 Jun 1995, Lynn Moncrief wrote: > >> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >> Matt, >> >> Not having read Knight's book, I've never heard of the term "biz" >> before now in indexing! Does this mean something like "bis" in Italian >> indicating encore or something that's repeated? >> >> Lynn Moncrief >> TECHindex & Docs >> >> You wrote: >> > >> >----------------------------Original message-------------------------- >> >Why not use 80 biz for the second reference, as described by G. Norman >> >Knight on page 107 of "Indexing, the Art of"? >> > >> >Matt Miller >> >memiller@netcom.com >> > >> > >> > >> > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 14:02:36 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: Sure you've heard of "bis"... ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Jack, ROFL!!! But at least "bis" is more in keeping with a CCITT standard, considering that the acronym CCITT itself is in French! (And, whoops, I thought that the "bis" meant that modem speeds were doubled in the V dot standards containing the word. That's as bad as "bisynchronous". ;-D) Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs You wrote: > >----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >...you just didn't know you'd heard of it. >The modem you use for the internet specifies its >speed (bps) in terms of the CCITT standard it complies with-- >V.32, V.32bis, V.42, V.42bis. > >The "...bis" portion means the second iteration of the >CCITT standard. V.32, the first cut, supports 9600 bps. But >V.32bis (second version) supports 14,400 bps... > >And you thought it meant "bisynchronous" or some such... >tsk, tsk. > >Well, I did. So why shouldn't you? > >Regards, > >J. Shaw >Software AG >Darmstadt, Germany > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 14:02:47 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Sloan Subject: Internet indexing ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Are there any indexers here involved in indexing Internet resources? I've been checking out Internet indexing services and am looking to see if I can get involved in this. So far I've done a search on Yahoo and came up with some interesting things there. Has anyone else been doing research in this area? Linda Kenny Sloan indexer@ix.netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 14:02:58 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MaryMort@aol.com Subject: Computer manual indexes praised ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- After the recent discussion of the poor quality of indexes to computer manuals, I was pleased to see some praise of indexes in a hardware review. The mentions are short: "the documentation was well indexed" in two places that I noticed, but they leapt out at me. The documentation was from two modem manufacturers: Hayes and Zoom Telephonics. The article is "The New Speed Limit", a review of high-speed modems by Emerson Andrew Torgan. It is in the July 1995 issue of _Home Office Computing_ (published in the U.S.), pages 90-96. * Mary Mortensen * marymort@aol.com * * "Wealth, I was discovering, is more accurately measured in what * you enjoy than in what you possess." Jean Aspen, _Arctic Son_ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 14:03:12 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: page rate for dense material? ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Help! I'm about to index a book that will have an average of 13 to 15 entries per page (I had the luxury of looking at prelim. page proofs). I've only recently converted to charging by the page, and I'm hoping that some of you who do charge that way can give me a quick figure on this one. If you can help me, please respond in private e-mail, because I won't get another index-l digest until tomorrow. Thanks y'all. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | Life is good. Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | Milwaukee, WI | ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 15:15:20 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Sloan Subject: Re: page rate for dense material? ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- You wrote: > >----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >Help! I'm about to index a book that will have an average of 13 to 15 >entries per page (I had the luxury of looking at prelim. page proofs). I've >only recently converted to charging by the page, and I'm hoping that some >of you who do charge that way can give me a quick figure on this one. If >you can help me, please respond in private e-mail, because I won't get >another index-l digest until tomorrow. Thanks y'all. > >Cheers, > >Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | Life is good. >Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | >Milwaukee, WI | > In my rate plan I have 3 levels of indexing - simple, intermediate, and complex. Each has base rates from 3 to $5 per page. Granted these are based on the level of headings (sub and sub-subheadings for complex) but from what you have written my guess is that the complex level would be the best rate. I also raise the rate by a dollar on rush jobs. Hope this helps. Linda Sloan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 15:15:39 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Manny Ratafia Organization: Yale University Subject: Text Search Shareware for Word & WordPerfect ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I thought members of this list would be interested in our shareware text search program. Basically, CommTech PowerSearch helps people handle large amounts of text. Versions are available for Word for Windows and WordPerfect for Windows. After you have tried PowerSearch, I would be very interested to hear what you think about it. Following is a description of CommTech PowerSearch. Information on downloading is at the end of the message. Manny Ratafia tmgmail@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu __________________________________________________________________________ CommTech PowerSearch(tm) Version 3.0 is now available for WordPerfect for Windows as well as Word for Windows. This shareware program now gives users of both word processing programs powerful, easy-to-use search capabilities. CommTech PowerSearch for WordPerfect for Windows allows you to easily build, save, and reuse complex search queries for use with WordPerfect's QuickFinder utility. Since it works inside WordPerfect for Windows, it is easier and quicker to use than other search programs. 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Or if you need to conduct a slightly different search, just load and edit an old search, and let CommTech PowerSearch(tm) find the data. PowerSearch saves you time and effort so you can get more work done. *Easy, Useful Design! In addition to other features, CommTech PowerSearch provides a useful, easy design. COMMTECH POWERSEARCH FOR DEVELOPERS: Developer's versions of CommTech PowerSearch for Word for Windows and WordPerfect for Windows are also available. These allow developers to add the capabilities of CommTech PowerSearch to their own applications. Contact us for more information. WHERE TO GET POWERSEARCH: CommTech PowerSearch is available for download from SimTel (ftp to oak.oakland.edu then go to SimTel/win3/winword for Word or SimTel/win3/wpwin for WordPerfect), as well as America Online and CompuServe. Or, you can use CommTech's BBS at 203/ 495-8604. The files to download are called: POWERSCH.ZIP (CommTech PowerSearch for Word for Windows) SEARCHWP.ZIP (CommTech PowerSearch for WordPerfect for Windows) If you have any additional questions you need answered before or after you download PowerSearch, feel free to get in touch. When sending an e-mail message, please put "CommTech PowerSearch" in the SUBJECT. CommTech A Technology Management Group Company 25 Science Park New Haven CT 06511-1968 USA Tel: 203/ 495-1960 Fax: 203/ 498-7842 Internet: tmgmail@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 15:16:05 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey Subject: Re: Bis and Ter, Ter and Bis, I wonder where them references is? ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >Lynn, > >Since you, and others, might not have access to Knight's out of print >book, I have typed in the pertinent info. Under the section entitled, >"Dividing up the text page" the third paragraph begins: > > "The user can be helped on occasion by the use of the Latin words >bis and ter after page references. It sometimes happens that an item is >alluded to in two or more quite unconnected passages on the same page; a >simple reference (say 172) in the index will direct the user to that page >where he may find an allusion near the top, but, this not being what he is >seeking, he may conclude that it is not there, when all the time it was >waiting for him in a second allusion lower down. In such a case, by >employing 172 bis (="twice") or 172 ter (="thrice") or even 172 quater >(="four times") the indexer can provide adequate warning and prevent the >catastrophe. Any index user who hasn't already learnt to scan the whole page is surely too inexperienced to benefit from an index with another level of complication beyond the norm. Whatever is in the British Standard, the fact is that most index users are already 'trained' to recognise that a single page number can point to two or more references on the same page. If a single page is divided into many small parts (e.g. like a Dictionary of Quotations), then the usual approach is to number the parts separately and include the part number in the index: e.g. Walrus: suppose, the W. said 101:19 --- from the Penguin Dictionary of Quotations, 1960 where there are 31 quotations on page 101 and this particular one is the seventeenth. "That's the nice thing about standards: there are so many of them to choose from." (Anonymous?) Jonathan. Jonathan Jermey & Glenda Browne Blaxland NSW Australia 061-47-398-199 jonathan@magna.com.au "From the motherboard on the sister ship to the brotherhood in the fatherland." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 15:16:21 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MikeMAPS@aol.com Subject: Re: Internet indexing ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >Are there any indexers here involved in indexing Internet resources? Check the work being done at the University of Michigan in their Digital Library Project. point your browser to http://http2.sils.umich.edu/UMDL/HomePage.html Interesting work is also being done at the University of Illinois at Urbana the URL to their Digital Library Project is http://www.grainger.uiuc.edu/dli/ To paraphrase Dan Aikin who recently spoke at the American Library Association convention in Chicago, The digital library of the future will be a federative idea. It will not reside in any one place, but will consist of many digital libraries cooperatively accessed through a system of software agents representing the user, the site, and negotiating exchanges between the two. There's a lot of work being done in this area, some of it is focused on indexing citations, and some of it is focused on full text searching. Agreement on common language is needed, as well as research into user needs and behavior. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 15:16:38 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dwight Walker Subject: Re: Internet indexing ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >Are there any indexers here involved in indexing Internet resources? >I've been checking out Internet indexing services and am looking to see >if I can get involved in this. So far I've done a search on Yahoo and >came up with some interesting things there. Has anyone else been doing >research in this area? > >Linda Kenny Sloan >indexer@ix.netcom.com > Linda So glad you asked. I am Webmaster for the Aust. Soc. of Indexers Web page (http://www.zeta.org.au/~dwalker/aussi.htm). We will soon be moving the site to Melbourne. Our sponsor down south hinted at indexers indexing the internet, which he (Steve Hunt) is right behind. I have started 'the art of indexing - on the internet', a page of links to relevant subject-oriented sites. These were to be 'examples' of subject-oriented indexing, plus sources of material for indexers who would use the Web site. The approach was to cover subject matter in a specific niche. This would make it more manageable. You are welcome to start a subject area in it. I originally had thought of indexers, publishers, librarians and information workers. Other things which spring to mind are software tools like CINDEX adapted to take URLs and be imported into HTML (the markup language). This would make resorting and organising topics much easier. I tried browsing for library oriented links but got very few hits, so I resorted to John December's book 'The WWW unleashed'... It had a great list of WWW sites. I hope this ramble says basically, yes, AusSI wants to start a niche internet index based in their Web page. Have a look, and contribute. You're very welcome. It's early days... Cheers Dwight ---------------------------------------------------------- Dwight Walker +61-2-3986726 (h) +61-2-4393750 (w) W-F My Home Page: http://www.zeta.org.au/~dwalker AusSI Home Page: http://www.zeta.org.au/~dwalker/aussi.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 15:16:56 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Fee for dense text settled ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- The polls are closed. Many thanks to all who responded--and to all who were going to but weren't quick enough. ;-) This list is FANTASTIC!!! (Thank you, Charlotte, thank you, thank you, thank you.) Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | Life is good. Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | Milwaukee, WI | ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 15:17:33 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hannah King Subject: Re: Internet indexing ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I am applying what I know about indexing to the structure of our community net's Health and Environment gopher. I think of main menu items as main entries, sub-menus as sub-entries. I strive for consistency from section to section (though its difficult when working with others who are trained in the subject area but not in information resource organization-- familiar problem, right?). We try to implement the concept of cross-references though in the gopher environment that is accomplished primarily through link files which are to some degree transparent to the user. I wish indexing principles were followed in web construction too, because most of what is created is gibberish after 20 entries or so. However, indexing the Internet as a whole seems an exercise in futility. Consider what a waste of time and effort it would have been to index gopher sites that were doomed to extinction by web software. Our gopher address is: gopher micro.ec.hscsyr.edu 7001 Comments regarding ways to successfully use indexing principles more effectively at this site would be welcomed. Hannah SUNY HSC Library at Syracuse kingh@vax.cs.hscsyr.edu