From: SMTP%"LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu" 6-JUN-1996 05:49:51.00 To: CIRJA02 CC: Subj: File: "INDEX-L LOG9605A" Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 05:49:36 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9605A" To: CIRJA02@GSVMS1.CC.GASOU.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 11:26:47 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DVech@aol.com Subject: Re: USDA Indexing Courses ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In a message dated 96-04-29 09:08:47 EDT, norcross@ix.netcom.com (Ann Norcross) writes: >Yesterday I received the Basic Indexing course in the mail; it looks great. The >course description suggests you plan on doing one lesson per month (there are >10 lessons and a final exam). > Hi...ONE lesson per month?? Wow. Is it that detailed? Or is it just the turnaround time that causes this? Sandie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 11:45:46 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Alison Chipman Subject: Re: Psychological and Business Thesauri ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- A good, standard thesaurus for psychology is: American Psychological Association. Thesaurus of Psychological Index Terms. 6th edition. Washington, D.C.: APA, 19991. ISBN 1-55798-111-6 The APA produces new editions periodically, so ask your local bookseller to check Books in Print for the most recent edition. This is a very good work, comprehensive and easy to use, even if you are not familiar with thesaurus conventions. For business and/or economics thesauri, check out any of these: Business and Management Thesaurus. 2d ed. Edited by Pascale Pajona, with Mary Baldrini, Carole Bonnanni, and Camille Lecamus. Fontainebleau Cedex, France: INSEAD, 1993. ISBN 2950800904 SCIMP/SCANP Thesaurus. 9th edition. Edited by Geoffrey E. Cleave. University of Warwick Occasional Publication, no. 21. European Business Schools Librarians' Group in association with the University of Warwick Library, 1992. ISBN 0903220334 I'm afraid I cannot give any personal recommendation with regard to the two business thesauri, as I haven't actually seen them. My place of work has them on order. Since they are European publications, the bookseller has told us not to hold our breaths while we wait. An experienced reference librarian has described them to us as "respectable." Hope this is of at least a little help. Alison Chipman editor, Art & Architecture Thesaurus achipman@aat.getty.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 11:46:26 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kat Nagel/MasterWork Subject: UPDATE on dealing with SPAM from AOL users ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Several folks have asked how to respond to SPAMS from AOL email addresses. I checked with the AOL Terms of Service staff this morning. SPAMs are a violation of AOLs Terms of Service agreement. (This only refers to 'real' SPAM, BTW---inappropriate mass postings. Single commercial email messages posted to a single internet address are NOT a TOS violation. That's one of the reasons they ask for complete headers.) AOL used to have---up until very recently---a single address TOS@aol.com for all complaints about Terms of Service violations. To speed up response times, they have divided it up into several separate for external (email/newsgroup) and internal (chat/instant message) abuses. (I missed the announcement of the address change, so I've been giving outdated information about this. I'm sorry for any confusion that resulted.) NEW INFORMATION To report an email SPAM, or an individual email message containing illegal or seriously offensive material (offensively vulgar sexual stuff, kiddie porn, personal threats, etc.): Forward all suspected abuse originating from AOL user addresses to: TOSEmail1@aol.com or TOSEmail2@aol.com The offending message -must- be -forwarded- with complete headers, NOT cut/pasted, so dealing with digest material is a problem. Those of us getting individual messages (and the listowner, of course) should get prompt action, however. BTW, last week a colleague reported a **SUPER SEX CHAT** jerk (she was sending Instant Messages to random AOL users advertising her new 900#). The account was suspended within 2 hours. They -do- pay attention. @Kat _______________________________ katnagel@eznet.net Kat Nagel MasterWork Consulting Services, Rochester, NY Technical writing / Document design / Information services ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 09:23:21 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Milwaukee indexing course ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- To newbies/wannabes in the Milwaukee area: I will be teaching an evening indexing course in downtown Milwaukee in the fall (through the UWM Outreach division). If you would like further details when they become available, please reply to me privately with your name and address, to be put on the mailing list for a fall catalog. Cheers, Carol Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | Life is good. Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | Milwaukee, WI | ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 09:23:32 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: Re: USDA Indexing Courses ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Sandie writes: > Hi...ONE lesson per month?? Wow. Is it that detailed? Or is it just the > turnaround time that causes this? That was my first reaction, too. Here's what they say: "Why Does It Take So Long To Get Lessons Back? After your lesson is graded it is mailed by your instructor to the USDA office in Washington. This insures that your grade is recorded twice, by your instructor and by the USDA office. After your grade is recorded in Washington, your lesson is mailed back to you. Some lessons take longer to grade than others. The Index Preparation Assignments take far more time to grade than other lessons. Three Lesson 5's can take over two hours to grade while three lesson 1's might take only twenty minutes. Instructors have at lest 75 students assigned to them. We have no control over nor idea of what lessons will arrive each week. All instructors for CEDIT 360 are full-time, freelance indexers. We are all running a business that can be very demanding. There will be times when our workload does not leave time for grading lessons. What amount of turnaround time is reasonable to expect? The safest bet is to plan on doing one lesson per month. As we suggest in the Course Guide, some lessons can be submitted together at the same time. However, you should wait for feedback on previous lessons before completing Index Preparation. Some students ignore this instruction and send Lessons 1-6 at one time! The lessons in this course build upon one another. You will be marked down if you make errors that were corrected in previous assignments." I guess a lot of people have asked this question! Regards, Ann Norcross ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 09:23:41 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MrsIndex@aol.com Subject: Re: USDA Indexing Courses ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >>Hi...ONE lesson per month?? Wow. Is it that detailed? Or is it just the turnaround time that causes this?<< Yes, it is the turnaround time that causes this. Also keep in mind the students are, in general, adults with other obligations, like jobs and families. They are not full-time students struggling to get through the material in a year, and thinking of nothing else! I certainly wish the turnaround time were a lot less. If turnaround were instant, I'd have finished the course in about 3 weeks. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 09:23:49 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: EMickiT@aol.com Subject: Re: USDA Indexing Courses ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In a message dated 96-05-01 11:42:20 EDT, you write: >ONE lesson per month?? Wow. Is it that detailed? Or is it just the >turnaround time that causes this? > > Sandie, No, it is not that detailed. Only three of the lessons are complex. The turnaround time is what delays things. I have decided that it has one advantage. I study the material to have the second lesson ready as soon as the first comes back. Then weeks later when it does come back, I go over the material again to check the homework. A review a few weeks after initially learning something helps thje long-term memory. good luck Micki Taylor Will you be at the Denver conference? If so maybe we will meet face to face. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 09:23:57 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: TWitten@aol.com Subject: Re: USDA Indexing Courses ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In a message dated 96-05-01 11:42:23 EDT, you write: >Hi...ONE lesson per month?? Wow. Is it that detailed? Or is it just the >turnaround time that causes this? > > Sandie, Many (but not all) of the lessons take only an hour or two to complete. The turnaround time depends on how quickly your instructor corrects and returns them to Washington, and how quickly Washington gets them back to you. I found that a simple three day holiday weekend can set those folks back a week or more. My instructor usually corrected the lessons within a week, and I was able to complete the whole Basic course in 7 months. So I would say one lesson per month is the maximum amount of time it could take. Hope this helps and good luck, Trish Wittenstein ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 09:24:05 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nettrain@aol.com Subject: Indexing Apprenticeships ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Hi, My name is Stacey and I'm currently taking the USDA course on Basic Indexing. I live in Seattle and I am very interested in working as an apprentice for a professional indexer, to learn all that I can. If anyone has an interest in this or any helpful information, I would really appreciate it! Thank you, Stacey Powell Nettrain@AOL.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 09:24:16 ECT Reply-To: hcalvert@cix.compulink.co.uk Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hilary Calvert Subject: Macrex Sales and Support ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Just a note to say that the recent message from the Macrex Sales and Support Office only applies to North American Macrex users. Sales and support are available as usual from the Calverts in England and from Max McMaster in Australia. Addresses, etc., are as follows: For Europe, Africa and South America: MACREX INDEXING SERVICES Beech House Blaydon Burn Tyne & Wear NE21 6JR England phone/fax 0191 414 2595 email: hcalvert@cix.compulink.co.uk For Australia, New Zealand and South-East Asia: MASTER INDEXING 44 Rothesay Avenue East Malvern Vic. 3145 Australia ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 09:01:44 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Robin Hilp Subject: Re: Indexing Apprenticeships ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >I live in Seattle and I am very interested in working as an apprentice for a >professional indexer, to learn all that I can. > >If anyone has an interest in this or any helpful information, I would really >appreciate it! Here are some people you can talk to ... The Pacific Northwest chapter of the American Society of Indexers is based in Seattle. Contact Carolyn Weaver , the interim vice-president. Wasser, Inc in Seattle is a temp agency of indexers. They also give indexing courses (I'm taking one from them in May) so they may be able to find intern, apprentice, or other entry-level positions. The contact name I have is Peg Cheirrett (not sure I spelled that right!) at (206) 441-0707. The Willamette Valley Chapter (NW Oregon) of the Society for Technical Communication has just started an Indexing special interest group -- I'm managing it; our first meeting is May 28 in the Portland area. We also have an Entry-Level special interest group, managed by Mark Ace . 'Course your local chapter of the STC probably has similar groups. I think a local contact for you would be JoAnn Hakos (again, my spelling may be wrong) at the University of Washington's Tech Writing department. The national STC contact is stc@tmn.com. =========================================================================== Robin Hilp robin@microtekintl.com "Play me Le Jazz Hot, baby!" business: Microtek International, Inc | personal: 2373 N.W.185th #329 3300 NW 211th Terrace | Hillsboro, OR 97124 Hillsboro, OR 97124 | GE(TW)$ d+(--) H+++ s-:+ g- p2+ au+ a w+ v+(-)* C USV P+ L+ 3- E- !N>++ K W+ M V -po+ Y+ t 5++ j R G' tv b+++ D B- e+++>-- u** h---- f+ r+++ n--- z++++ Member DNRC =========================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 09:02:32 ECT Reply-To: jspool@uie.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Jared M. Spool" Organization: User Interface Engineering Subject: Course: Product Usability For Doc Professionals ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Announcing a course presented by User Interface Engineering: Product Usability For Documentation Professionals June 11 & 12, 1996 Andover Marriott, Andover, MA Direct Your Team To Better Software Development User Interface Engineering presents a course that will put your software development team on the road to building better applications -- while break the old speed limit. You'll learn shortcuts, how to avoid hazards and ways to shorten learning curves. And you'll get directions from consultants who have perfected these techniques while working on dozens of products. As a sign of good faith, our courses are 100% Guaranteed. If you are not completely satisfied, your money will be refunded. We are extremely confident that this course will exceed your expectations. So sign up today. ================================================= Product Usability For Documentation Professionals ================================================= How can you document a product before it is finished? This challenge is especially frustrating when the documentation professional isn't involved until late in the development process. As a documentation professional, you need techniques that will empower you to play a proactive role in the development of the entire product, not just the documentation. This two-day course is a mixture of lectures and exercises. While the major focus is on prototyping and usability testing of software products and documentation, we also discuss other useful techniques such as contextual inquiry and user myths. Based on our recent research projects, you will get the latest information on how to develop usable wizards, cue cards and on-line help. You will work with other participants to practice the techniques taught in the class. Who Should Attend: This course is for documentation professionals and managers who develop documentation (printed or on-line), help, tutorials or other product learning aids. An understanding of usability concepts is helpful, but not required. Course Topics: Basics of Usability Testing Choosing the Right Technique Designing a Usability Test Prototyping Techniques Techniques For Documentation Learning From Usability Tests Working on the Team Each participant will receive Penny Bauersfeld's Software By Design: Creating People Friendly Software. The standard price for the course is $620 (US). 100% Guaranteed If you are not completely satisfied, your money will be refunded. We are very confident that these courses will exceed your expectations. For a detailed brochure and registration information, contact: User Interface Engineering 800 Turnpike Street, Suite #101 North Andover, Ma 01845 (508) 975-4343 fax: (508) 975-5353 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 14:43:57 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carrie Stolle Organization: UNC Subject: Book Publishing seminar ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- LEARN ABOUT THE BOOK PUBLISHING INDUSTRY FROM EXPERTS The Carolina Publishing Institute will not only enter its fourth year this summer, but also the 21st century. For the first time, the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill will offer a week of electronic publishing, along with the editorial, design and production, and marketing weeks previously offered. The Institute will be held June 3 - 28. The new week will deal with technological advancements that are rapidly changing the publishing industry. Paul Jones, author of "The Web Server Book," will lead the electronic publishing faculty in topics such as publishing on the Internet and CD-ROM. The electronic week, combined with three others, will give participants an understanding of the publishing industry as a whole. Participants attend interactive sessions and gain hands on experience. Discussion topics include the agent's role, copy edition, understanding the business of publishing, advertising, sales forecasting and book reviewing. Site visit to local publishing-related businesses give participants a chance to see the publishing process as it happens. Classes are held from 9:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. daily except Friday when they end at 1:00 p.m. Participants can register for the entire Institute for individual weeks. Application deadline is May 24. For additonal information and to register contact: Rachel M. Davies, Program Director CB# 1020, The Friday Center Chapel Hill, NC 27599-1020 919-962-1124 or call 1-800-845-8640 (voice mail request line available 24 hours a day) FAX: 919-962-2061 EMAIL: rmd.ce@mhs.unc.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 14:44:04 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Neva J. Smith" Subject: Denver- amazing car rental rates! ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- To anyone wanting to rent a car in Denver: I found (well, my travel agent found) an amazing deal at Advantage Car Rental (at the airport). I've reserved a compact car for $11.50 per day! I don't work for these people, nor do I have a discount of any kind. My travel agent was so surprised at what she saw on her reservations screen that she asked me to hold and called Denver. I don't know if this is a limited time "sale" or some other kind of promotion. I did want others to know about this bargain. Looking forward to seeing you in Denver! Neva = < +> = * = < +> = * = < +> = * = < + > = * = < + > = * = < + > = * = < + > =*=<+> Neva J. Smith, MLIS DataSmiths Information Services njsmith@bga.com PO Box 2157, Round Rock, TX 78680-2157 voice/fax +1-512-244-2767 & Editor, _Library Currents_ PO Box 2199, Round Rock, TX 78680-2199 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 14:44:46 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Subject: Index-l on auto-pilot Index-l will be on auto-pilot at least until May 13...maybe longer. I will be in and out to meetings and some vacation until the middle of June, so may leave it alone until then. The magazine subscription ads have been showing up at the rate of a couple per week. With luck, the sender will take a vacation...otherwise, hit the delete key. Charlotte Skuster Index-l Moderator ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 13:13:13 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Sachs Subject: Indexing in cult science fiction Did anyone catch the latest episode of Babylon Five, in which Captain Sheridan discovered a possible key to saving galactic civilization from the Shadows? Cut to Captain Sheridan's office. He is sitting at his desk and flipping through the pages of the ancient holy book of the Narn. Sheridan: Come on, where is it? A book this important, you'd think it would have an index! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 13:50:08 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Sachs Subject: "Tagging tool" software Reading the ASI web pages at HTTP://WWW.WELL.COM, I found a reference to a class of software called "tagging tools." It doesn't mention any specific examples, but gives this general description: >Tagging tools allow indexing codes to be embedded >in the electronic text after the indexing is complete. >The indexer inserts numbered dummy tags in the files, >and then builds the index separately. The final step >uses macros to insert the indexing at each tag in the >files. Many of these tools are developed in-house to >fit the publishing group's needs. I'd like to learn more about this class of programs: who uses them, how, and what they do, and how. Can anyone give me leads? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 10:40:43 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey Subject: Re: MACREX/printer codes for italics At 10:01 26/04/96 ECT, Mary Prottsman wrote: >----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >MACREX-I need to convert default printer codes for 'underline' to >'italics' for HP DeskJet 500 printer. > >Will anyone give me step-by-step instructions, including the printer >codes for 'italics'? > If you have access to any of the more powerful word processing programs you can: a) Use Macrex to produce a word processing file in RTF format; b) Load the file into your word processor; c) Do a global search and replace for underlined characters. The word processor also allows spell checking and easy touching up of things like apostrophes, acute and grave accents, larger fonts for letter headings (A, B, C...), etc. It's usually also possible to write a simple macro that automates all of this. Jonathan. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Jermey & Glenda Browne, Blaxland NSW Australia E-mail - jonathan@magna.com.au Web - http://www.magna.com.au/~jonathan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How come sticking sharp objects in people is OK for kids to see, but sticking blunt bits of people in people isn't? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 10:40:51 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey Subject: Re: Excel At 09:32 30/04/96 ECT, Elaine wrote: >----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >I am a beginning indexer and have heard that Excel can be used for indexing. >If you use Excel for indexing can you tell me how? Thanks >Elaine Excel can be used for indexing, but it is really just an electronic version of a card-index file, with none of the features that make computerised indexing software worth having. If you set up four column headings for 'Main Entry', "Sub-entry', 'Pages' and 'Cross Refs', you can then select any of them and then use the 'Data Form' command to give you a data entry form. When you want to arrange the main entries into alphabetical order, you can use 'Data Sort' to do so. It wouldn't be hard to write a quick keyboard macro for swapping around the previous main entry and sub-entry. There is also a 'Find' and 'Replace' command under the Edit menu - beyond that you're pretty much on your own. For anything major I would recommend a dedicated program like Macrex or Cindex. Jonathan. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Jermey & Glenda Browne, Blaxland NSW Australia E-mail - jonathan@magna.com.au Web - http://www.magna.com.au/~jonathan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How come sticking sharp objects in people is OK for kids to see, but sticking blunt bits of people in people isn't? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 12:29:17 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: Tagging tools for indexing I have used tagged tools developed in house at Microsoft, and expect there are other companies who have developed them as well. They are not available on the open market as far as I know. The idea is to tag all the paragraphs in the text to be indexed with a unique id, export out the ids into a spreadsheet, and hand off printouts of the text with the ids showing to the indexer. The publication's files themselves then can go through final tweaks and get handed off to be translated. The indexer writes the index in the spreadsheet, using well-defined and pre-tested coding. When it is edited and ready, macros push the indexing back into the publication files, using the unique ids as targets. All the indexing is written to id codes, not page numbers. At the same time, the index spreadsheet is provided to translation, it gets translated, and then pushes the indexing into their set of files. It is a royal pain to do this process, and requires hand-crafted macros and a lot of troubleshooting. People move or delete the ids, and tracking them can get crazy. But it allows the indexer to work outside of the files, and it allows translation to start earlier in the process. There was an article in Keywords several years ago on the tagging system: Sep/Oct 93 on page 13. The process is still essentially the same as the one I describe. Jan Wright ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 15:36:08 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeanchev@AOL.COM Subject: CRaZy Complimentary Offer........ --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: CRaZy Complimentary Offer........ Date: 96-05-04 14:44:00 EDT From: Jeanchev To: free_offer_news.reflector@usenet.vax1.zer2.co.np -----> NOTE: Please first read my note which appears below the "Request for more info Form." Then, to get more info, just fill out the "Request for More Info" form completely and *FAX* or *SMAIL* it back to the company. You will get a quick reply via email within 1 business day of receipt of the info request form below. IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR THOSE FAXING IN THEIR REPLY: Please make sure you return *only* the below form and *no part* of this message other than the actual form below. If you do not know how to cut and paste the below form onto a fresh clean blank page for faxing, then you may re-type the below form, as long as you copy it line for line *exactly.* This is necessary in order for them to be able to process the tremendous number of replies that they get daily. Your fax goes directly onto their 4.2 gigabyte computer hard drive, not paper, and all incoming fax calls are set-up to be *auto-terminated* and/or *auto-deleted* from the incoming queue of faxes to be read, if your fax: 1. has a cover page; 2. is more than one page 3. is sent more than one time 4. does not begin with the "cut here/begin" line from the below form 5. does not end with the "cut here/end" line from the below form. 6. has any handwritten info. on it (info must must be filled out *only* with your computer keyboard or typewriter keyboard). This last provision re: no handwriting on the form applies to requests sent in via smail also. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ NOTE: Their fax line is open 24 hrs. per day / 7 days per week. However, if you have trouble getting through due to the high volume of overseas faxes coming in during the early morning and late night hours, please note that the best time to get through to their fax is Monday-Friday, 9 am - 5 pm EST (New York Time). If you have trouble getting through to their fax, or do not have a fax machine at work or at home, just drop the below form to them via smail (airmail or first class mail). ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ *------------cut here/begin-------------------------------------------* REQUEST FOR MORE INFO: please return *only* this section (with no cover page) via 1-page fax to: 718-967-1550 in the USA or via smail (first class mail or airmail) to: Magazine Club Inquiry Center Att. FREE Catalogue-by-email Dept. PO Box 990 Staten Island NY 10312-0990 Sorry, but incomplete forms *will not* be acknowledged. If you do not have an email address, or access to one, they will not be able to help you until you do have one. If you saw this message, then you should have one. :) ---> SORRY, BUT NO HANDWRITTEN FORMS WILL BE ACKNOWLEDGED. MUST BE TYPED-OUT ON YOUR COMPUTER OR TYPEWRITER. <--- Name: Internet email address: Smail home address: City-State-Zip: Country: Work Tel. #: Work Fax #: Home Tel. #: Home Fax #: How did you hear about us (name of person who referred you or the area of the internet that you saw us mentioned in): Referral by: Jean Chevalier. 05046-l-cco Name of USA mags you currently get on the newsstand or in the store: Name of USA mags you currently get on a subscription basis, through the mail: Name of USA mags you would like price quotes on when we call you: Catalogue format desired (list "1," "2," "3" or "4"): *------------cut here/end--------------------------------------------* Catalogue Format Options: 1. 19-Part email- can be read by EVERYONE (~525 K Total). 2. For more advanced computer users: attached text file ~525K - you must know how to download an attached text file and then be able to open it with your word processor. If in doubt, don't ask for this version. This isn't for internet *newbies.* Better to order option 1 and spend a few minutes pasting them into one whole text document with your word processor, than to waste hours trying to figure how to deal with this option. 3. For more advanced Macintosh computer users: compressed attached text file, created with a Stuffit(tm) self-extracting archive (.sea), ~133K. Can be decompressed by any Macintosh computer user; no special expansion software or knowledge of Stuffit (tm) needed. You just double-click on the file icon and it automatically expands (unstuffs). This is for more advanced mac computer users only, as you still have to know how to deal with an attached file. It will cut your download time by 75%. Expands out to the same ~525K file in option #2. See option #2 for more info on what you will need to be able to do. 4. For expert computer users: compressed attached text file, created with Stuffit(tm), ~114K. Can be decompressed by any computer user who has expansion software to decompress (expand) Stuffit(tm) (.sit) files. This is for more advanced computer users only and will cut your download time by 78%. Expands out to the same ~525K file in option #2. See option #2 for more info on what you will need to be able to do. Hi fellow 'netters, My name is Jean Chevalier and I recently started using a magazine subscription club in the USA that has a FREE 1 yr. magazine subscription deal with your first paid order- and I have been very pleased with them. They have over 1,500 different USA titles that they can ship to any country on a subscription basis. As for computer magazines from the USA, they more of a selection than I ever knew even existed. They have magazines for most every area of interest in their list of 1,500 titles. Within the USA, for their USA members, they are cheaper than all their competitors and even the publishers themselves. This is their price guarantee. Overseas, on the average, they are generally around one-fourth to one-half of what the newsstands overseas charge locally for USA magazines. On some titles they are as little as one-tenth of what the newsstands charge. They feel that mgazines should not be a luxury overseas. In the USA, people buy magazines and then toss them after reading them for just a few minutes or hours. They are so cheap in the USA! Well, this company would like to make it the same way for their overseas members. They are also cheaper than all their competitors in the USA and overseas, including the publishers themselves! This is their price guarantee. Around one-half their business comes from overseas, so they are very patient with new members who only speak limited English as a 2nd language. Their prices are so cheap because they deal direct with each publisher and cut-out all the middlemen. They will send you their DELUXE EMAIL CATALOGUE (around 525K-big and juicey) !)...if you completely fill out the form above. It has lists of all the freebies, lists of all the titles they sell, titles broken down by categories and detailed descriptions on nearly 1,200 of the titles that they sell. Please do not email me as I am just a happy customer and a *busy* student. I don't have time to even complete my thesis in time, let alone run my part-time software business! Please fill out the above form and carefully follow the intructions above to get it to them via fax or smail. They guarantee to beat all their competitors' prices. Sometimes they are less than half of the next best deal I have been able to find and other times, just a little cheaper - but I have never found a lower rate yet. They assured me that if I ever do, they will beat it. They have been very helpful and helped me with all my address changes as I haved moved from one country to another. They have a deal where you can get a free 1 yr. sub to a new magazine from a special list of over 270 popular titles published in the USA. They will give you this free 1 yr. sub when you place your first paid order with them to a renewal or new subscription to any of the over 1,500 different popular USA titles they sell. They can arrange delivery to virtually any country and I think they have clients in around 45 or 46 countries now. Outside the USA there is a charge for FPH (foreign postage and handling) (on both paid and freebie subs) that varies from magazine to magazine. I have found their staff to be very friendly and courteous. They even helped me with an address change when I moved from one country to another. The owner thinks of his service as a "club" and his clients as "members" (even though there is no extra fee to become a member - your first purchase automatically makes you a member) and he is real picky about who he accepts as a new member. When he sets you up as a new member, he himself calls you personally on the phone to explain how he works his deal, or sometimes he has one of his assistants call. He is kind of quirky sometimes - he insists on setting up new members by phone so he can say hi to everyone (I sure wouldn't want to have his phone bills!), but you can place future orders (after your first order) via E-mail. He has some really friendly young ladies working for him, who seem to know just as much as he does about this magazine stuff. If you live overseas, he will even call you there, as long as you are interested, but I think he still makes all his overseas calls on the weekends, I guess cause the long distance rates are cheaper then. He only likes to take new members from referrals from satisfied existing members and he does virtually no advertising. When I got set-up, they had a 2-3 week waiting list for new members to be called back so that they could join up. (Once you are an existing member, they help you immediately when you call. ) I think they are able to get back to prospective new members the same day or within a few days now, as they have increased their staff. I am not sure about this.........but if you email the above form to them, that is the way to get started! They will send you their DELUXE EMAIL CATALOGUE (around 525K-big and juicey) !)...if you completely fill out the form above. It has lists of all the freebies, lists of all the titles they sell, titles broken down by categories and detailed descriptions on nearly 1,200 of the titles that they sell. They then send you email that outlines how his club works and the list of free choices that you can choose from, as well as the entire list of what he sells; and then they will give you a quick (3-5 minute) friendly, no-pressure no-obligation call to explain everything to you personally and answer all your questions. Once you get in, you'll love them. I do. Sincerely, Jean Chevalier ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 16:07:03 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: martin dowding r <11mdowdi@MACH1.WLU.CA> Subject: Re: CRaZy Complimentary Offer........ In-Reply-To: <199605041943.PAA22455@mach1.wlu.ca> What has this crap got to do with an indexer's dicsussion group? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 06:59:38 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey Subject: Re: Indexing in cult science fiction At 13:13 3/05/96 -0700, you wrote: >Did anyone catch the latest episode of Babylon Five, in which Captain >Sheridan discovered a possible key to saving galactic civilization from the >Shadows? > >Cut to Captain Sheridan's office. He is sitting at his desk and flipping >through the pages of the ancient holy book of the Narn. > >Sheridan: Come on, where is it? A book this important, you'd think it would >have an index! Sure it does. It was done by the author. Here's a sample: Saving banks 218-300 grace 234 lives 215-321 money 215-264, 743-987 the Universe 145-146 time 654 Spells, 1-673, 811-1231, 1461-2132 The Universe, saving 121-4 Jonathan. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Jermey & Glenda Browne, Blaxland NSW Australia E-mail - jonathan@magna.com.au Web - http://www.magna.com.au/~jonathan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How come sticking sharp objects in people is OK for kids to see, but sticking blunt bits of people in people isn't? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 16:52:55 -0500 Reply-To: becohen@prairienet.org Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barbara E. Cohen" Subject: Re: CRaZy Complimentary Offer........ Note: Charlotte is on vacation.... so the automatic server is on. Just delete the crap and don't make us have to read your complaints too, please! 8-) Barbara (I mean this only in the nicest way, although in re-reading I could see where someone might take offense. Please don't.) -- Barbara E. Cohen Indexing & Editorial Services Champaign, IL ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 02:37:03 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Gale Rhoades Subject: Re: MACREX/printer codes for italics I believe that questions such as this are not appropriate for distribution to the entire list. I have, as usual in such cases, responded directly to Mary. Anyone wanting information on how easy it is to change faces, fonts and sizes from Macrex or who has any question about Macrex is very welcome to drop a note to one of the following or you can contact me at the Executive Tower Inn in Denver between May 14th and May 19th (in conjunction with the annual ASI meeting). Macrex Sales & Support Office (North America only): e-mail: macrex@aol.com For Australia, New Zealand and South East Asia: Master Indexing, e-mail mindexer@interconnect.com.au For the rest of the world: Macrex Indexing Services, e-mail hcalvert@cix.compulink.co.uk Gale Rhoades Director Macrex Sales & Support Office (North America only) Macrex, the choice of professionals around the world. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 00:08:19 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Do Mi Stauber Subject: subhead breakdowns Okay, folks, here's a question. In a social sciences or humanities book: if you have a large section or chapter all about one subject, for which you have a list of subheads that cover different parts of the section, and one of the subheads has a long enough spread that it needs to be broken down, do you 1) leave it as a subhead *and* make it a main head with subheads of its own or 2) make it a main head with subheads and put a see also reference from the main head it started out under? (This situation comes up most often in textbooks.) Here's an invented example, exaggerated a little so it's obvious: Communication, 100-180 (this is a chapter) body language, 101-105 language, 115-165 interpersonal distance, 111-114 touch, 105-110 Okay, obviously Language is going to be a main head with subheads. Do you leave it in there as a subhead, or do you remove the subhead and add See also Language to the Communication heading? There are arguments for both choices here; I've seen it done both ways; I've done it both ways. I tend to leave the subhead in in a textbook and take it out in a scholarly book. What do other people do??? Do Mi DStaub11@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 15:34:50 +0000 Reply-To: kbeaver@massaudubon.org Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was kbeaver@IGC.APC.ORG From: Kay Beaver Organization: MAS Subject: Re: messages from Jonathan Jermey Am a neophyte indexer who signed up for your service last week; several items so far have been helpful. HOWEVER, I find the attachment "How come sticking sharp objects, etc." inappropriate; I did not sign up for a service of personal comments unrelated to indexing. Thank you! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 11:26:01 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Doug Thompson Subject: Re: CRaZy Complimentary Offer........ Please don't clutter my e-mail with this garbage. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 11:26:46 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Doug Thompson Subject: Re: CRaZy Complimentary Offer........ Send them a 1 Giga message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 10:28:00 -0500 Reply-To: becohen@prairienet.org Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barbara E. Cohen" Subject: Re: subhead breakdowns Do Mi: I would probably do as you say: leave it in in a textbook (they tend to want rather literal subheads reflecting chapters) but edit it out in a scholarly book. In the example you gave, it is so obvious that I would probably edit it out even in a textbook and just use the Communications. See also Language cross-reference (here I am assuming that there are so many other relevant entries under "Language" that the page numbers run all over the book, not just in that chapter). In my experience, this would require some knowledge of the author's pr editor's preferences, which is why I hate taking on a new kind of project for a new kind of client... I don't know what they like enough to make speedy decisions about where to put things, so there is extra editing time involved, extra questions to ask, and always the risk of having misinterpreted what they were looking for! See you in Denver! Barbara -- Barbara E. Cohen Indexing & Editorial Services Champaign, IL ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 08:34:59 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Editing time/charging by entry I just finished an hellaciously (not really a word but how I feel!) long/difficult index to a 375 pg. book on Chinese medicine (in English!) which generated 3100 entries (98 double-spaced pages). The publisher told me he wanted it very detailed, and he got it! (I also checked back with him three times during the process to let him know exactly how much this was costing, since I'm charging by the hour for this one.) And as an addendum, I DON'T feel this was over-indexing, since it included name entries for every classic book cited, as well as every author - also part of the instructions from the editor. I generally tell clients editing takes an additional 20-30% of the time required to assign subject headings, and this time I did verify that it took almost 32% additional time for the edit - partly due to the numerous Pinyin translations of Chinese words that are NOT in the spell checker which had to be verified manually. My question is, is my editing time typical for an index of this size? Do any of you routinely track the percentage of time you spend on the final edit? Second question is for those who charge by the entry (an option I considered on this one): The Cindex stats showed ca. 3,100 locators for this index, and ca. 2350 entries. If you are charging by the entry, which figure would you use for billing purposes - obviously affecting the cost per entry? Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, Wa. e-mail: cweaver@u.washington.edu voice: 206/930-4348 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 09:16:01 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Nancy C. Mulvany" Subject: May issue of Indexer is Late INDEXER LATE The Society of Indexers aplogises for the late production of the May 1996 issue of The Indexer. The printer has had serious setbacks which have delayed the printing of the journal. We hope to distribute copies by the end of May, if not sooner. Nancy Mulvany Associate Editor, The Indexer 6 May 1996 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 12:28:32 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Editing time/charging by entry I do computer books and I estimate 1/3 of my time goes for editing. For general computer books, I average 20 pages per hour. This breaks down into 60-80 pph for reading and the same rate for data entry. I can verify page numbers at about 100 pph. Editing typically takes about half again as much time as I have spent to that point, making 1/3 of the entire time. Last year, I kept really detailed records and used them to document a productivity increase from 7 pages per hour to to 12 pages per hour for a particular client. I was charging them by the hour and used the figures to justify a rate increase. Dick Evans ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 19:33:44 +0000 Reply-To: kbeaver@massaudubon.org Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was kbeaver@IGC.APC.ORG From: Kay Beaver Organization: MAS Please remove my address as a participant in the indexers' discussion group. Thank you. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 19:21:40 +0000 Reply-To: kbeaver@massaudubon.org Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was kbeaver@IGC.APC.ORG From: Kay Beaver Organization: MAS Subject: Re: messages from Jonathan Jermey Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 09:54:16 -0500 To: kbeaver@massaudubon.org From: larryh@MillComm.com (Larry Harrison) Subject: Re: messages from Jonathan Jermey >Am a neophyte indexer who signed up for your service last week; >several items so far have been helpful. HOWEVER, I find the >attachment "How come sticking sharp objects, etc." inappropriate; I >did not sign up for a service of personal comments unrelated to >indexing. Thank you! Hi Kay, I'm sorry, but this is part of the free speech package. The statement at the end of Jonathan's message is called a signature or "sig," and is one of the many arenas for unfettered personal expression on the Internet. You cannot reasonably ask anyone to refrain from expressing strongly held personal views in their attached sigs as long as they are brief; abuse of "bandwidth" by using excessively long sigs is a sin of far higher classification in the Internet catalogue than mere profanity, for example. If this is extremely troublesome to you, please be careful what newsgroups and mailing lists you subscribe to -- trust me, there is FAR worse out there than mere *allusion* to sexuality. Regards, Larry Harrison I should not be surprised that "brevity" is the only criterion for "reasonable" messages; brevity has nothing to do with content, i.e., appropriateness, offensiveness, etc. This is why people no longer understand the concept of "standards". Signing on to a newsgroup re: INDEXING expecting information about skills, methods, classes, etc. uncluttered by personal views is "reasonable"; having to be "careful" acquiring professional information is a limitation on MY freedom. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 14:17:36 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bob Krovetz Subject: Magazine offer The magazine offers come from "Krazy Kevin" (I don't remember his last name). He routinely abuses the internet. He gets accounts on America On-Line with a made-up name and posts his message, and then cancels his account. He will send mail to thousands of different mailing lists and newsgroups. We can probably expect such postings on a regular basis until a solution is found. Bob krovetz@research.nj.nec.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 14:58:58 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: - Judy Press Subject: Midwestern indexer's meeting Any indexers attending the Denver conference from Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma and Missouri are invited to meet for dinner on Thursday after the afternoon session, at 5:30 at the ASI information table. Also the first local chapter meeting will be held at my house in Wichita, Kansas on Saturday, June 29th at 12 noon. Interested indexers and indexing students are invited to attend. Please e-mail me for further information. Judy Press Press Indexing Services ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 12:27:28 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Signe E. Larson" DOCUMENTATION ABSTRACTS, INC. BOARD OF DIRECTORS THE INFORMATION SCIENCE ABSTRACTS (ISA) RESEARCH GRANT TO BE AWARDED BY DOCUMENTATION ABSTRACTS, INC. NEW YORK, N.Y. May 1 -- The Board of Directors of Documentation Abstracts, Inc. (DAI) announces it will award the Information Science Abstracts (ISA) Research Grant of $1,000 in 1996. This grant is awarded annually by DAI to one or more information professionals to conduct a research project oriented toward the study of the primary or secondary literature of information science. All applicants for the ISA Research Grant must be information professionals and hold a graduate degree in library or information science. No individuals who are associated with ISA are eligible. This includes members of the Board of Directors of DAI, employees of Plenum Publishing Corporation, SilverPlatter, and KRI/Dialog. Applicants must submit a completed application package by August 30, 1996 outlining the scope and nature of the proposed project, providing evidence of an established methodology and a viable research design. Examples of possible topics for research include: the use of information resources, comparison of tools, quality of the literature, and bibliometric analysis. Recipients of previous ISA grants have researched such topics as: ISA and ARIST: Linkages to Enhance Litera- ture Searching, and, A Model for Quantitative and Qualitative Database Evaluation Using the ISA Database. The goal of the research must be to produce a publishable paper. Half the amount of the $1,000 grant will be paid upon announce- ment of the award and the balance will be paid upon successful completion of the research project. In addition to the cash award, access to ISA CD-ROM will be provided for the length of the grant. Announcement of the award will be made December 1, 1996. Documentation Abstracts, Inc. is owner/sponsor of the monthly abstracting and indexing publication, Information Science Abstracts (ISA), published for DAI by Plenum Publishing Corporation. Inter- national in scope, ISA provides references to and abstracts of the useful literature in the fields of information science and library science dating back to 1966. Its coverage extends to journal articles from over 400 journals, to conference proceedings, books, reports and patents. The entire file is available for searching via Dialog File 202 and on SilverPlatter CD-ROM. CONTACT: For further information and for application instructions, Signe E. Larson, Information Masters P.O. Box 525, Manzanita, OR 97130 503/368-6990, E-mail: Webster@WELL.sf.ca.us Board of Directors, Documentation Abstracts, Inc. Mark E. Funk (MLA), Chair Signe E. Larson (SLA), Vice-Chair Ben-Ami Lipetz (ASI) Treasurer Katherine W. McCain (ALISE) Secretary Norman Howden (ALA) Judith E. Watson (ACS/CINF) Randall W. Marcinko (ASIDIC) Jessica L. Milstead (ASIS) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 19:34:37 UT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joanne Clendenen Subject: Re: Biographies Thanks for the inputs on my biography question. I finished the index on Friday, and I did look at Hazel Bell's advice, although I sometimes wonder if the tradition of putting lots of stuff under the subject's name is really necessary. I went with tradition anyway, and it came out looking pretty good. Thanks again for your comments. Joanne Clendenen Houston, Texas (wishing I were in Colorado, or Oregon....) J_Clendenen@msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 12:40:40 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Robin Hilp Subject: Re: Indexing in cult science fiction Jonathan S. wrote: >Did anyone catch the latest episode of Babylon Five, in which Captain >Sheridan discovered a possible key to saving galactic civilization from the >Shadows? After doing a celebratory little Dilbert-dance I woke up in the middle of the night Friday realizing it was Garibaldi not Sheridan. I don't have email access from home, so being a conscientious indexer I worried about correcting the reference all the way to Monday. *grins* ====================================================================== Robin Hilp - robin@microtekintl.com - "Play me Le Jazz Hot, baby!" business: Microtek International, Inc | personal: 2373 N.W.185th #329 3300 NW 211th Terrace | Hillsboro, OR 97124 Hillsboro, OR 97124 | Member DNRC - Manager STC WVC Indexing SIG ====================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 15:49:10 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Macrex Workshops All, I know there has been a problem with the mails and the flyers for the Wednesday, May 15th Macrex workshops immediately preceding the Denver ASI conference. I never received my flyer, so I know -- I just spoke with Gale Rhoades at the Macrex support office and gave her my registration over the phone. As of now, there is still space available at both workshops. The AM workshop is for advanced users; the PM workshop is the basic skills workshop. Cost is $45 for each if taken individually, $75 if both are chosen. I chose to re-post this message due to difficulties in flyers reaching interested people. Call Gale Rhoades at (415) 756-0821 (California) to register. This is the first time software workshops are being offered as a pre-meeting event. The price is nominal. It would be worth it for anybody not already registered to think seriously about attending. It would even be worth changing your airline reservations to attend, since the workshop cost is so low. If you're serious about your indexing as a business, and about your productivity, this should be a MUST. I'm taking both workshops. Hope to see many of you there. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 16:41:33 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: messages from Jonathan Jermey Do things ever get lively around here when INDEX-L goes on autopilot! I cancelled a message explaining the same thing that Larry did when I saw his eloquent reply to Kay. But now, here we go. Kay threw Bob Richardson's proverbial stick into the INDEX-L tree and we starlings are rising up en masse to twitter. (It may be because I had a fever that day, but I found that particular message to be a real side-splitter. ;-D) Now, Kay, I'm sure you'll see this as you posted your unsubscribe message to the list instead of sending it to the listserve address. (Just in case you're wondering why you're still getting INDEX-L messages.) Are you sure you want to get into *indexing* if you are so offended by a mere signature line that you'll actually deprive yourself of the great information INDEX-L offers by unsubscribing? After all, indexing is part of publishing--the same free exchange of ideas Larry mentioned. I'm posting this to the list instead of sending it only directly to you because it addresses an issue that we indexers experience from time to time. And that is that we have to read things that we may not personally agree with--indeed, ideas that we may find downright offensive for one reason or another. Yes, this will happen if you go into indexing, even into a specialty that you may feel is "safe". Please consider this aspect of our work as it is difficult to index something properly if what the author is saying "rubs you the wrong way", unless you cultivate a degree of detachment and objectivity toward the printed word. (Aha! You guys didn't think I'd get this on topic, now did ya? >;-D) Also consider that being "professional" does not necessarily mean being "stuffy" or dry!! (Why is "professional" so often used as a whip to keep people toeing someone's predetermined line?) Jonathan's signature line is as much a part of him as a professional as his technical expertise in that a true professional is a compleat human being. BTW, PLEASE check out books and Internet FAQs about the Internet itself before your "newbie-ness" gets you toasted far more seriously than what I'm saying here. ;-D It is considered very poor form to publicly post a private message that someone sent you to a public forum as you did with Larry's message unless he gave you permission to do so. (That's aside from sending us all your unsubscribe message, etc.) And please take this in the friendly spirit in which it's offered. We were *all* new to this at one time. Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 17:42:40 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elizabeth Tudor Subject: Re: USDA Indexing Courses In an earlier mesage from Sandie: ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >In a message dated 96-04-29 09:08:47 EDT, norcross@ix.netcom.com (Ann >Norcross) writes: >>Yesterday I received the Basic Indexing course in the mail; it looks great. The >>course description suggests you plan on doing one lesson per month (there are >>10 lessons and a final exam). >> >Hi...ONE lesson per month?? Wow. Is it that detailed? Or is it just the >turnaround time that causes this? The course is very slow. Evidently, lesson has to go through the USDA office, then to the instructor, then back to the USDA before being returned to the student. I am finishing up the 4th lesson and still haven't gotten the 1st lesson back yet. Its a real pain in the you know what. I would have been willing to pay more for the course (it runs about $280) and have the lessons fedexed or faxed. Apparently, these folks haven't heard about modern technology. Sigh. Beth ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 17:51:54 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Indexing Sensitive Material In her response to the person who was offended by Jonathan Jeremy's sig line, Lynn mentioned that indexers may have to index material that "rubs them the wrong way," or is controversial or with which they disagree. I'm posting to say that I've already encountered this, and it can be a professional challenge. I was indexing a book on women's health care for minorities, a contributed volume, with lots of statistics and studies cited on different minority groups, disease prevalence, outcome studies, and healthcare options available/used. Nobody was faring too well in terms of getting good healthcare coverage. When I came to the chapter on African American women, the author, who was also the editor of the entire volume, came on loud and strong, in the longest chapter in the book, stating outright that there was racism, classism, sexism ... in American society. She went on in this vein, citing studies, etc. At first I was afraid to touch the subject of racism. Didn't know how to word the subheads. But I had entries for sexism and classism, so I knew I had to go back and do it! I had to think hard about what and why, then decided that my agreement, opinion, etc wasn't what was needed here. I had to reflect the book in the index, and that's all. My index had to be a true roadmap to the information in the book. On the strength of that, I went ahead and treated racism just as I did the other topics, even though my initial impulse was to shy away from the "hot potato." Interesting, no? Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 00:19:33 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: CRaZy Complimentary Offer........ In-Reply-To: <199605061532.IAA08553@spork.callamer.com> I've had terrible problems with my server, so I may have missed a similar comment to what I'm about to post. If so, please accept my apologies. The way these people make money is by getting responses. They also get their kicks that way. In order to make it less profitable on both counts, DO NOT reply in such a way that your post gets sent anywhere but to the original sender...whose mailbox most likely is already overflowing with unprintable remarks. If you must, send a personal response to the so-and-so, but don't just hit the reply button, because it will automatically send your response to thousands of other, equally angry, folks on hundreds of other lists! Address it specifically to the entity that has violated netiquette. But don't post your angry response here (or on any other list where this dumb post shows up). That way, this nonsense will be an occasional, single blip upon the otherwise serene and helpful screen of INDEX-L. Thanks. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 18:33:40 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Allison Brooks Subject: Re: subhead breakdowns I would choose a See Also for language. IMHO, of course. Allison Brooks ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 17:46:03 -0500 Reply-To: becohen@prairienet.org Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barbara E. Cohen" Subject: Re: Indexing Sensitive Material Re: this topic, I index many books on religion, theology, and secular humanist interpretations of religion. I once had a trainee who was a fundamentalist (her husband was a minister in a church I later decided was a cult)... Anyway, I can tell you that secular humanism rubbed her the wrong way. I found it enlightening to my own views to work with someone who was so clearly offended by what I took to be "real." (I can safely post this as she did not become an editor and eventually she and her husband left town to become missionaries for their church--in Rockford, Illinois.) Anyway, my point is, it takes all kinds, and we do have to be open to ideas we might not like. I thought Lynn's comments about objectivity were totally on target. Another 2 cents. Barbara -- Barbara E. Cohen Indexing & Editorial Services Champaign, IL ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 19:13:25 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Blum Subject: Denver reception All, Someone just asked me a question that I think may be pertinent to many of you attending the Denver conference. She asked whether her husband and children could attend the Friday evening reception at The Tattered Cover. This reception is for only paid conference attendees. There will be a ticket for bus transportation in your registration packet that you will receive in Denver. Due to limited space and the cost of the event, this event is strictly for paid attendees. Denver is only 9 days away! Can't wait to see everyone! Ann ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 20:27:43 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: heather vervoort Organization: uw-madison Subject: Re: how do I get off this listserv? HELP! Can anyone tell me how to unsubscribe from this listserv? I have tried sending about 50 different commands to unsubscribe and nothing has worked. Heather ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 10:19:16 +0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Shane White Subject: Indexing courses by correspondence I am interested in becoming an indexer, and I was wondering if anyone could tell me who to contact about the USDA course duscussed recently on this list. There are no correspondence courses that I know of in Australia, so I am looking overseas. Does anyone know of any other courses (besides the British one, which I already know about)? Many thanks, Shane ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Shane White Phone 61 9 380 2347 Cataloguer (et cetera) Fax 61 9 380 1012 Library, University of Western Australia swhite@library.uwa.edu.au ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 08:22:42 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: USDA Indexing Courses In-Reply-To: <199605062155.QAA19021@wins0.win.org> I am still taking the USDA course, even though more than a year has gone by since I began. I may never finish. My work as an indexer keeps getting in the way. But... Some instructors offer the option of allowing you to send the completed lessons to their home address, which short circuits one slowdown. The USDA needs to see and record the results of the lesson before it is returned to you, but I don't believe they need to see it before the instructor receives it. Ask your instructor if he/she is willing to do that. Craig Brown The Last Word ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 07:57:15 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Kay Banning Subject: Re: Denver Conference I have a room available at the Denver Conference for Tuesday May 14 - Sunday May 19. Kay Banning banden@axiom.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 10:56:34 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Emily Mandelbaum Subject: Indexing Standards I am a library science student hoping to do some research on how back-of-book indexers use standards. I understand that both the ANSI/NISO Standard and the ISO Standard are still in the process of being revised. I was wondering if anyone could help me by letting me know what Standard is most likely to be used by indexers in the United States at this time? Do people use the draft versions of the standards that are being revised, or do you use the older British Standard or another source, such as the Chicago Manual of Style? Thank you very much for your help! Emily Mandelbaum University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill School of Information and Library Science ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 08:24:00 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Sachs Subject: Re: Indexing in cult science fiction >After doing a celebratory little Dilbert-dance I woke up in the middle of >the night Friday realizing it was Garibaldi not Sheridan. Several people have informed me of this. Oops. Accuracy is as important as accessibility, isn't it? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 15:26:48 UT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joanne Clendenen Subject: Re: sensitive material Just another short anecdote on the intricacies of political correctness. I was doing an index on a biography of Max Weber, a social scientist of the early part of this century (he died in 1920). Although he made great efforts to combat anti-Semitism in German academe, he had his own prejudices, based on the time and place he lived in. He made a couple of comments about Polish immigrant workers, and Senegalese soldiers that were negative based on their ethnicity. Well, I put Weber, Max, racism of in my draft. But the author objected, of course. He was defending Weber's life and work, and thought racism too strong a term. I looked in my handy thesaurus and was amused to find so many euphemisms for ethnic prejudice. I decided to use "ethnic chauvinism" and entered it with an ironic smile. Ah, language! What an interesting game! My job, of course as has been mentioned, is to faithfully reflect the tone of the book. I also think that we sometimes need to consider the context in which attitudes are formed, and not always jump in any direction to applying our standards to another time and place. I'm not making excuses for Herr Weber, but I'm not sure we should place too harsh a judgment on him, considering the accomplishments of his whole life. That's my 2 cents. Joanne Clendenen J_Clendenen@msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 18:04:50 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: sosa_eduard@FCSC.UPF.ES Subject: subscribe Item Subject: Texto de mensaje I would like to subscribe to this list. Thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 12:51:31 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Subscribing and unsubscribing It is time for someone to post the message about how to get on this list and how to get off this list. To subscribe to Index-L, send a message to the LISTSERV, whose address is: LISTSERV@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU The content of your message should be: SUBSCRIBE INDEX-L where you substitute your full name for . When you have successfully subscribed to the list, you will receive a complete set of instructions on how to use the list. It also explains important concepts, like the difference between the LISTSERV address and the address for discussions, and the fact that if you try to unsubscribe by writing to the discussion list, you will only amuse (or annoy) the thousands of people who read your message. DO NOT DISCARD THESE INSTRUCTIONS, or you will not be able to unsubscribe from the list unless some kind person explains how to do that. To unsubscribe from Index-L, send a message to the LISTSERV, not the discussion. An alternate address is: listserv@bingvmb.bitnet The sole content of that message should be the word SIGNOFF. I hope this helps. Craig Brown The Last Word ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 11:57:56 -0700 Reply-To: Carolyn Weaver Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Re: Indexing Sensitive Material In-Reply-To: <9605062251.AA26571@mx4.u.washington.edu> In a similar vein, when I did my first index for a publisher which specializes in Chinese medicine, I had a problem (from my perspective as a 25-year academic medical librarian firmly grounded in Western medicine) in accepting the idea of tongue diagnosis as a valid medical technique. But by the time I finished that book and did a mental translation of the Chinese concepts to Western equivalents, it started to make a lot of sense. Now when indexing alternative health care I just sit back and enjoy learning about the subject from a different perspective I would have a real problem indexing material which I pesonally consider dangerous, unethical, or totally wrong (like, "how to run a terrorist organization for fun and profit" or "the joys of pedophilia"); but my reaction would be simply to turn down the job - not to try to convert others to my way of thinking. I have done indexes on topics I don't particularly like or support and occasionally thought, "Does anybody actually READ this stuff??" But as long as the material is not actively dangerous (and I'm talking about dangerous inaccuracies on the order of, "you can learn to fly by jumping out of successively higher windows" - not values subject to interpretation!) it has a right to be published, read, and indexed - tho maybe not by me. Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, Wa. e-mail: cweaver@u.washington.edu voice: 206/930-4348 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 21:19:00 BST-1 Reply-To: jsampson@cix.compulink.co.uk Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John Sampson Subject: Sig lines I refuse to index books I disagree with unless I get paid for it. As for sig lines, presumably everyone has the right to be boring if they want. _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 19:28:02 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Indexing Sensitive Material In-Reply-To: <199605062158.OAA17384@spork.callamer.com> Janet, about a year ago, I had a call from an editor who needed an index for a professional text on treatment for child molesters. It was quite detailed (sans pictures, thank goodness), and described several treatment options that I would describe as inhumane if they were to be applied to a common farm animal, let alone a human...except that child molesters don't quite make it onto the "human" list, IMO. She warned me in advance that the first copyeditor had returned the job after just a couple of chapters, explaining that she simply could not continue reading this material. She wanted to be sure I could handle it, and I appreciated the warning and chance to opt out. I did take the job, and while it was not exactly a pleasant interlude, I learned a great deal about the subject. One of the things I learned, sadly, is that most pedophiles cannot really be "cured," no matter WHAT sort of treatment they receive. And that most have been molested as children. I think it was smart of the editor to warn me about the subject matter, and I expect that similar topics would disturb many people. But there's not much you can do--or should be expected to do--to "protect" an indexer (or copyeditor) from material which just doesn't match his or her personal biases in terms of religion, morality, etc. =Sonsie=