From: SMTP%"LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu" 6-JAN-1997 10:18:58.43 To: CIRJA02 CC: Subj: File: "INDEX-L LOG9612C" Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 09:43:55 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9612C" To: CIRJA02@GSVMS1.CC.GASOU.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 08:48:26 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kat Nagel/MasterWork Subject: Re: Donating books---UPDATE >>>Fellow philanthropists: >>> >>>Houghton Mifflin Publishing Corporation will donate one book to a >>>children's hospital for every 25 e-mails they receive. >>>Please e-mail them at: >>> >>> share@hmco.com >>> >>>please spare a moment to clog their email. . . and let your friends know. >>> So far they have only received 3,400 messages. Last year they reached >>>23,000. >>> Please DON'T! They have been inundated with email messages since this began over a week ago, to the point where their server and staff have cried "Enough"! Messages similar to the following are popping up wherever the original message was posted last week: ---- >Subject: Knit: Houghton - Mifflin, Don't send >Message-ID: <19961213.175348.6358.3.NMcfarlane@juno.com> > >Hi Friends, > >Just read the request for E-mail for Houghton - Mifflin and wanted to >tell everyone PLEASE DO NOT SEND E-MAIL to them. > >DD1 worked in publishing in NYC and sent this to me several days ago and >then immediately sent me a forwarded E-mail from someone at H-M. Seems >this was legitimate - but those who came up with the idea did not check >with their tech people and their servers are jammed etc. They have >agreed to donate the maximum number of books they had designated and now >are more aware of the power of e-mail. In the future they will do this >type of thing via a WEB page. > >Nancy in SC ------- In a followup message to another list, an H-M staffer has requested that a STOP message be sent to each address where well-intentioned emailers have sent the donation message. @Kat Kat Nagel_____________________________katnagel@eznet.net MasterWork Consulting Services, Rochester, NY Techwriting/Editing/Document design/Research MEDIREF consultant for the Monroe Co. Library System ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 08:48:52 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kat Nagel/MasterWork Subject: Re: History of Index-L >The 4th issue of the STC publication has an article written by the woman who >started the Techwr-L Listserv on the history of that Listserv. Has someone Errr...the last time I checked, Eric Ray (TECHWR-L founder, and author of that article) was a man. K@__________________Kat Nagel, MasterWork Consulting Services Technical writing / Editing / Document design / Research "Let horrid Jargon split the Air/And rive the Nerves asunder." ___William Billings, in The Singing Master's Assistant (1778) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 19:09:38 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Leonard Will Subject: Re: Rates for Glossaries In-Reply-To: <850601814.1027681.0@vms.dc.lsoft.com> In message <850601814.1027681.0@vms.dc.lsoft.com> on Sat, 14 Dec 1996, LLFEdServ@AOL.COM writes >I would also be interested in answers to this question. I will probably >compiling a Spanish/English glossary for a textbook next month (or so) and >have to come up with a reasonable fee. I have done this twice before. The >first time I grossly undercharged for the time involved (about $150), and the >second time I charged $800, which was a fair price at the time (about 3-4 >years ago). The company asked for a flat fee rate (as they will this time). >The book is about 250 to 300 pages of text. Any suggestions. >Thanks, >Leslie >LLF Editorial Services If you have done this before, I presume that you can make a reasonable estimate of the time it will take you. Do you have a notional charge per hour that you use for calculating charges? I don't know whether there are any rates recommended or suggested by professional bodies, but I would have guessed that you would charge about $50 per hour. How does that compare with the figures you have quoted above? Leonard Will -- Willpower Information (Partners: Leonard D Will, Sheena E Will) Information Management Consultants Tel: +44 181 372 0092 27 Calshot Way, Enfield, Middlesex, EN2 7BQ, UK Fax: +44 181 372 0094 L.Will@Willpower.demon.co.uk Sheena.Will@Willpower.demon.co.uk ------------------ http://www.willpower.demon.co.uk/ ------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 15:04:04 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PilarW@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Rates for Glossaries Someone asked about what to charge for writing glossaries (forgive me for not recalling who, please). I've been asked to write glossaries for clients in the past, as well. While I didn't feel up to writing the definitions (this was for a highly specialized topic), I did supply a list of words for the glossary, and edited the client's definitions. I had been editing the publication already, and charged an hourly rate for all the work. This arrangement worked out well for both the client and myself. Good luck, Pilar Wyman Indexing Annapolis, MD Tel/Fax: 410-263-7537 Email: PilarW@aol.com "What is indexing?" -----> http://www.well.com/user/asi/indfaq.htm "An index a day keeps the phone calls away ..., " Jan Wright, Wright Information Indexing Services ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:41:49 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Signe E. Larson" Subject: ISA Research Grants NEWS RELEASE -- December 1, 1996, NEW YORK, N.Y. The Documentation Abstracts, Inc. (DAI) Board of Directors is very pleased to announce the awarding of the 1996 Information Science Abstracts (ISA) Research Grants of $1,000 each to the following two applicants: Ruben Urbizagastegui Alvarado, Associate Librarian, University of California, Riverside, for his project, "Selecting Literature on Bibliometrics Through Bradford's Law" and Berenika M. Winclawska, Librarian, Nicholas Copernicus University, Torun, Poland, for her project, "Creation of Local Citation Indices for Polish Sociology Citation Index (PSCI)." The ISA Research Grant of $1,000 is awarded annually to one or more information professionals to conduct a research project oriented toward the study of the primary or secondary literature of information science. Applicants for the ISA Research Grant must be information professionals and hold a graduate degree in library science or information science. No individuals who are associated with ISA are eligible. This includes members of the Board of Directors of DAI, employees of Plenum Publishing Corporation, SilverPlatter, and Knight-Ridder Dialog. DAI is owner/sponsor of the monthly abstracting and indexing publication, ISA, published for DAI by Plenum Publishing Corp. International in scope, ISA provides references to and abstracts of the useful literature in the fields of information and library science dating back to 1966. Its coverage extends to journal articles from over 400 journals, to conference proceedings, books, reports and patents. The entire file is available via Dialog File 202 and on SilverPlatter CD-ROM. CONTACT: For further information, please contact Signe E. Larson, Vice-Chair of Documentation Abstracts, Inc. Information Masters P.O. Box 525 Manzanita, OR 97130 Phone: 503/368-6990 E-mail: Webster@WELL.sf.ca.us ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 05:20:55 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: WMacallen@AOL.COM Subject: Re: History of Index-L Woops! I apologize for that major error! It must be my late, or in this case, early, hours!) Willa MacAllen WMacallen@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 17:02:31 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Subject: History of index-l Willa, and others who are interested... Index-l was started in the summer of 1992. I had just struggled through indexing a humanities book (I'm a science type) and thought that an electronic discussion group would have been a big help. My institution (Binghamton University) was amenable to staff use of the listserv software and the library administration encouraged my involvement as a professional development activity. Nancy Mulvany--who moderated an indexing discussion group on the WELL--helped me develop a statement of purpose and sent the first message. A colleague who was the moderator of a library listserv gave me alot of useful advise and moral support so I was able to get index-l off the ground fairly easily. I think after the first year we had about 200 subscribers and the numbers have grown more or less steadily since. We have been hanging around 800 for about a year now. In the early days 20 messages a week was pretty chatty...now 20 a day is not unusual. The list was moderated until last spring (meaning that I read every message before it went out). Then the demands of my job seemed to increase along with the message traffic...so now it goes unmoderated and I think most prefer it that way. Thats about it. I will return to being chief lurker. Hope this answered the question. Charlotte Skuster Science Reference/Health Science Bibliographer Binghamton University Science Library and Index-l Moderator ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 16:01:34 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diana Stilwell Subject: Keyword indexers needed Healthwise, Incorporated is seeking proposals for the keyword indexing of the Healthwise Knowledgebase? software, a computer-based health education program designed for use by laypeople. The project dates are January 20 - March 1, 1997, with the possibility of follow-on work at regular intervals after project completion. For more information and to receive a copy of the complete RFP, please contact Diana Stilwell at Healthwise, Incorporated 373 West Fort Street Boise, ID 83702 (208) 345-1161 dstilwell@healthwise.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 18:12:08 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rhonda Keith Subject: Happy Holidays For the time being I am going to devote myself to reading the copy editing listserve, and come back to indexing-l in the undefined future. It's been interesting, and I wish you all the best of whatever your holiday may be. My little holiday gift to you all is to suggest that everyone rent the video, or read the book, "The Name of the Rose," a thriller about medieval scribes by Umberto Eco. (Someone complained about the gratuitous sex in the movie, but I pointed out that all sex is gratuitous, like jokes.) Later... Rhonda Keith Only You Publications Autobiography~Oral History Services and Writing, Editing, Desktop Publishing Boston ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 21:35:52 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rhonda Keith Subject: Goodbye (again) (I feel like a Ouija board.) I wanted to mentioned that all my e-mail disappeared yesterday, so those who sent me messages direct that I hadn't yet answered -- I can't answer them now unless they are resent. Rhonda Keith Only You Publications Autobiography~Oral History Services and Writing, Editing, Desktop Publishing Boston ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 12:47:37 -0800 Reply-To: maddox@iafrica.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah and Peter Maddox Subject: Thanx - page numbers unknown Thankyou very much to all who replied to my post, and in such detail too. My proposal to the editor, was to do the index in Macrex and later embed it into Pagemaker if required. She likes the idea (and at this point sees no reason to embed it). I found your input extremely helpful when formulating the proposal. (Now we shall see if I get the job.) A merry festive season, and a happy 1997 to you all. Sarah Maddox ____________________________________________________________ http://mickey.iafrica.com/~maddox/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 06:56:29 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: WMacallen@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Index-l History/Proofreading Dear Charlotte: Thanks for respoonding. I think that historic tidbits like that are really important. I think more attention should be paid to the history of various professional topics, but that may be my MLS training! I was also curious because I've been wishing, to myself, that there could be a listserv for proofreaders. It seems as though proofreading is tied in to all aspects of writing: writing, indexing, technical writing and editing. I've seen proofreading discussed parenthetically in each of those listservs.However, there appears to be no vehicle where proofreaders can ask questions on proofreading issues. Am I the only one that would be interested? Thanks again for responding to my question. Willa MacAllen MacAllen's Information Services WMacallen@aol.com (Boston--the city of drizzle!) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 12:25:15 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: June Levy Unsubscribe. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 15:46:12 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: .RTF Format and Macs Help! I need to send an index via email, and have discovered that sending it .RTF format is the perfect solution. But the folks on the other end will need to use a Mac (and Quark Express) to typeset the index. Can a Mac translate .RTF okay? Can Quark Express use .RTF files, or translate into something usable? And if the answers are no to both questions, what format can I use to email index files that WILL work with a Mac and Quark? Thanks in advance... =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 19:56:39 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Chinese names I'm currently indexing a fascinating book on global telecommunications, and I need help with a couple of Chinese names. How would you index the following: Mao Zedong Deng Xiaoping It seems to me that indexing them just as they appear (above) is correct (not in that order, of course!) ... but I'm not 100% sure. TIA for your help. Happy indexing ... and happy holidays .... Lori ******************************************************************* Lori Lathrop ---------->INTERNET:76620.456@compuserve.com Lathrop Media Services, P.O. Box 3065, Idaho Springs, CO 80452 Office: 303-567-4447, ext. 28 / Fax: 303-567-9306 Workshop Schedule for '97 includes the following locations: March: Boston / New York City / Washington, DC April: Minneapolis / Indianapolis / Seattle / San Francisco / L.A. May: STC Annual Conference, Toronto June: Orlando / Chicago / Denver ******************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 20:20:46 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JanCW@AOL.COM Subject: Re: .RTF Format and Macs In a message dated 96-12-17 18:51:15 EST, you write: > . Can a Mac > translate .RTF okay? Can Quark Express use .RTF files, or translate into > something usable? RTF should work just fine, and Quark should be able to handle it if they have installed the RTF import filter. You may want to send them a practice file to be sure. Jan Wright ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 20:49:46 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Re: Chinese names In-Reply-To: <199612180057.TAA10792@polaris.net> Chinese names are something I have to check in CMS--and often in *Webster's New Biographical Dictionary*--every time. Take a look at CMS sections 17.116 through 17.118. I think that 17.117 would be most relevant: "When alphabetizing Chinese names that are written in traditional form, with family name first, do not invert, and use no commas." If, however, you're dealing with a "twentieth-century Chinese with ties to the West," he or she may put the family name last, and you'd have to invert for alphabetizing, as per 17.118. The examples given are Tang Tsou, H. H. Kung, and T. V. Soong, who are alphabetized as Kung, H. H. Soong, T. V. Tsou, Tang I checked Web Bio and found "Mao Tse-tung" alphabetized under "M." Web Bio gives the Pinyin version as "Mao Zedong." So, I think that alphabetizing the names exactly as you were planning to is correct. Just my $.02. Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net), Tallahassee, Florida, USA "You might be a Yankee if you don't know anyone with two first names (i.e., Joe Bob, Billy Bob, Kay Bob, Bob Bob)."--Unknown ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 23:02:14 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Joel S. Berson" Subject: Re: Chinese names Lori Lathrop wrote: > > I'm currently indexing a fascinating book on global telecommunications, and I > need help with a couple of Chinese names. How would you index the following: > > Mao Zedong > Deng Xiaoping > > It seems to me that indexing them just as they appear (above) is correct (not in > that order, of course!) ... but I'm not 100% sure. I agree with Hazel Blumberg-McKee's answer. (I was composing my reply when I saw hers.) By the way, I think the Pinyin transliteration (as above) is the one preferred by the Republic of China. One must be careful, however -- I have noticed that sometimes newspapers have reversed the order of some traditional Chinese and other Oriental names, perhaps to correspond with American and Western usage or possibly just out of lack of knowledge. Joel ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 22:04:43 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Richard T. Evans" Subject: Re: Chinese names At 07:56 PM 12/17/96 EST, you wrote: >I'm currently indexing a fascinating book on global telecommunications, and I >need help with a couple of Chinese names. How would you index the following: > > Mao Zedong > Deng Xiaoping > >It seems to me that indexing them just as they appear (above) is correct (not in >that order, of course!) ... but I'm not 100% sure. According to Wellisch: "Chinese names consist generally of three elements, though names from early periods sometimes have only two. In all names, the family name is the first element, followed by a two syllable given name. Entry is in the same order, without a comma between family and given name." Looks like you've got it right. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 23:10:26 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: Chinese names Hazel -- Thanks for the quick response to my question. I've been working in my home office this week ('cuz I'm fighting a sinus infection and don't relish the thought of tromping thru the snow to my office downtown). :^/ Of course, my CMS and other reference books are in my downtown office ... so I figured someone like you on INDEX-L would be able to tell me if I was on the right track (and save me the trouble of tromping thru the snow). Thanks again! Lori ****************************************************************** Lori Lathrop ---------->INTERNET:76620.456@compuserve.com Lathrop Media Services, P.O. Box 3065, Idaho Springs, CO 80452 Office: 303-567-4447, ext. 28 / Fax: 303-567-9306 ****************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 07:04:47 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Cynthia D. Bertelsen" Subject: Re: Chinese names and other names in indexes I just wanted to add a little bit of background information to this discussion on Chinese names. Appropriately, Richard Evans mentioned Hans Wellisch in connection with this topic; Dr. Wellisch wrote a book entitled The Conversion of Scripts: Its Nature, History, and Utilization. (Incidentally, this book won a Wilson award for its index). In Indexing from A to Z, Dr. Wellisch includes a great deal of information on the names problems that crop up for indexers and on Romanization of non-Western scripts. (The information I give below comes from this last mentioned book, pages 426-27). The Romanization schemes that are used are the determining agents in alphabetization. As Joel mentions in his post (quoted below), Pinyin ("Spelled Sound") is preferred by the People's Republic of China, but many older books use the Wade-Giles form (invented by two British diplomats), as does the Library of Congress and Taiwan. (Hence Mao Tse-tung.) Those with a penchant for detail (!) will want to look at the Wade-Giles--Pinyin conversion table, Table 9.2, in Chicago Manual of Style, 14th ed., pages 340-41. Names, particularly Arabic names, present some of the most frustrating problems that I encounter in indexing. When I was in library school, I did a paper on African names (which present many of the same problems as Chinese and Arabic names) for an advanced cataloging class. (FWIW, the paper is attached to my web page, address below, under Africana Cataloging.) The number of items in a name that are honorifics or otherwise is incredible. And these things are not really considered as part of a person's real name in some cases. Unfortunately for those who do not speak the languages in question, it is nearly impossible to tell right off if a word is part of the name or an honorific (like Sir) that does not enter into the arrangement of the name in the index! I would like to hear more from others who have encountered names problems like this in indexing. Thanks, Lori, for starting this thread. At 11:02 PM 12/17/96 -0800, you wrote: >Lori Lathrop wrote: >> >> I'm currently indexing a fascinating book on global telecommunications, and I >> need help with a couple of Chinese names. How would you index the following: >> >> Mao Zedong >> Deng Xiaoping >> >> It seems to me that indexing them just as they appear (above) is correct (not > in >> that order, of course!) ... but I'm not 100% sure. > >I agree with Hazel Blumberg-McKee's answer. (I was composing my reply >when I saw hers.) By the way, I think the Pinyin transliteration (as >above) is the one preferred by the Republic of China. > >One must be careful, however -- I have noticed that sometimes newspapers >have >reversed the order of some traditional Chinese and other Oriental names, >perhaps to correspond with American and Western usage or possibly just >out of lack of knowledge. > >Joel > > ************ Cynthia D. Bertelsen INDEXER Blacksburg, VA cbertel@nrv.net http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 08:01:28 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Cynthia D. Bertelsen" Subject: Re: Chinese names and other names in indexes Oops. Someone just sent me a personal email about the Africana names/cataloging paper that I said was on my web page. It is linked from my web page, so here is the URL for those who are interested: http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/africana.html Sorry for any incovenience. It was early when I wrote that post! ************ Cynthia D. Bertelsen INDEXER Blacksburg, VA cbertel@nrv.net http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 10:24:03 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: WordenDex@AOL.COM Subject: Re: .RTF Format and Macs Don't know about Quark, but I have sent .rtf files to a MAC editor and they converted beautifully. Diane Worden Kalamazoo, Mich. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 10:54:23 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Anne M Bouvier UNSUBSCRIBE Anne M. Bouvier ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 10:05:06 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Chinese names > Mao Zedong > Deng Xiaoping > That's how they're given in the _Cambridge Biographical Dictionary_, and that's how I'd list them. With non-Westernized Chinese names (family name first), you don't invert or use a comma. Actually, I think Mao was not his family name but a title, but that's how he's known, so that's how he's indexed. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 13:47:09 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Chinese names Lori, When working with Asian names, I would index the ones you have exactly as you have done, but I would use cross references also: Zedong, Mao. See Mao Zedong Depending on the book, I would consider also using a cross reference for Chairman Mao: Chairman Mao. See Mao Zedong Hope this helps. Leslie LLF Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 15:39:37 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM Subject: Re: .RTF Format and Macs Sonsie, When I have sent files that need to be read in Mac format, I save the index file in Microsoft Word for Mac using the Save As... command. If I'm emailing it, then I just email the file to the Mac, the recipient reads it and saves it in whatever format they need. If you are sending a hard copy and disk by mail, check and see if they have a Mac that reads PC disks. If they do, you should be able to Save As... again and just send them the PC disk with the Mac file on it. Again, they should be able to resave it in whatever format they need. I hope this helps. Leslie LLF Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:49:00 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: .RTF Format and Macs At 08:20 PM 12/17/96 -0500, JanCW@AOL.COM wrote: >RTF should work just fine, and Quark should be able to handle it if they >have installed the RTF import filter. You may want to send them a practice >file to be sure. I think I had better do that. The editor I'm working with knows absolutely nothing about the equipment on her end and for some reason doesn't seem to want to give me the phone number of the person who will be dealing with this in-house. I can easily send her a small sample in .RTF and have her give it to the designer and see how it works. Thanks! =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 21:38:04 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DP1301@AOL.COM Subject: Re: .RTF Format and Macs Sonsie, I send things to Mac platforms all the time, but I've always sent .aap files. The only thing that doesn't translate is the page locator connector. If I leave it as a simple "-" (quotation marks enclosing it) then they are unable to find and replace it. If I change it to anything else "=" or "#" or "^" then they can find and replace that and all is ducky. (Yesterday I sent one where I replaced the connector needed to be <@150> so I just changed that in set format. Didn't know what platform they had, so I sent it as .aap and as a .wp5 file). One Mac platform client told me the .aap file was cleaner for them than the .rtf file. So at least for them I'll stick with .aap. Everything else on that pr/file screen should be No except the last thing and it's yes--whatever it is. Another solution... Happy indexing! Deborah Deborah Patton, INDEXER Baltimore, MD 410/243-4688 dp1301@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 20:36:39 -0500 Reply-To: Marjanovic Mirjana Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marjanovic Mirjana Subject: Help help help! Hello indexers, I would need a little help from my friends...not exactly like Joe Cocker, but ... well I'm supposed to write a paper about evaluation of indexing software, not only dedicated or embeded, but also computer-assisted indexing. I've been all around the Net, CD-s & comp. not to mention Nancy Mulvany's book, and still, I need a real, (fresh and juicy) evaluation of indexing software on the market. Could anyone be so kind and give me some hints (bibliographic data, URL, anything)? I suffer from lack of information, lack of knowledge in general ... lack of everything, including time. :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) Mirjana Marjanovic - (Martic) marjanom@ere.Umontreal.ca LA VIE EST BELLE -- ZIVOT JE LEP M2 - Ecole de bibiliotheconomie et des sciences de l'information Universite de Montreal ;> :> :> :> :> :> :> :> :> :> :> :> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 09:13:15 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Fetters Subject: Re: Indexing Software Reviews To: Marjanovic Mirjana From: Linda Fetters The only complete review of indexing software (for back of the book indexes and journal indexing) is my *Guide to Indexing Software* available from the American Society of Indexers. You might be able to find scattered reviews in the library literature, but my guide contains reviews of the major programs. You can order from ASI for $20 I believe. ASI's e-mail address is ASI@well.com and their Web page address is http://www.well.com/user/asi. If you get really desperate, let me know and I can send you a photocopy of the book. It's about 44 pages long. The fifth edition, 1995, is the latest. Linda Fetters LKFetters@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 09:59:25 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: Chinese names and other names in indexes This list is such a wonderful resource! Thanks to all of you who have shed some light on the art of indexing names. I'm keeping all of your notes for future reference. And now ... here's another example from this fascinating book on global telecommunications, which incorporates discussions on political and economic issues in addition to the very technical information on cellular networks, satellite communications, etc. The following appears in a discussion on Malaysia: In mobile communications, there is limited competition by licensing, with four cellular license holders and 36 radio paging licenses. All of the new entrants are local companies, and many have strong ties to Prime Minister Datuk Seri Mahathir Mohamad, or other members of the ruling party UNMO (United Malays National Organi- zation). In this case, "Matathir" is the Prime Minister's last name ... but where would you put "Mohamad" (which I believe is an honorary title)? Would this be correct? -- Matathir Mohamad, Datuk Seri (Prime Minister of Malaysia) TIA for being such a great resource (and for saving me from tromping thru the snow to my downtown office, where all my reference books are). Lori (still fighting a nasty sinus infection) ****************************************************************** Lori Lathrop ---------->INTERNET:76620.456@compuserve.com Lathrop Media Services, P.O. Box 3065, Idaho Springs, CO 80452 Office: 303-567-4447, ext. 28 / Fax: 303-567-9306 ****************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 10:35:53 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Richard T. Evans" Subject: Bah, humbug! Anyone else having trouble getting paid? I have three separate clients behind at the moment. As you might expect, I was planning on the money for Christmas. I can understand individuals being slow to pay around Christmas, but corporations? Dick Evans ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 11:43:26 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Re: Chinese names and other names in indexes (fwd) I'm looking at CMS, which gives information on Indian, Burmese, Javanese (and other Indonesian), Thai, and "other Asian" names. I'm not finding a whole lot that's helpful. Some snippets: 17.124 (Javanese and Other Indonesian Names): "Indonesians of Javan origin use only a personal name, family names being nonexistent in Java: Suharto, Sukarno. In other parts of Indonesia family names often exist, although the personal name may still be the one to use in indexing. Also a person may take an additional name (for Muslims of strong religious bent, often an Arabic name)." I'd hoped the reference to Muslims would help, but it didn't. 17.126 (Other Asian Names) tells you to query the author when in doubt. If your person is among the living, I think that Cambridge might well tell you what to do with his name. I'm not finding him anywhere in Web Bio. Sorry. Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net), Tallahassee, Florida, USA "It is possible for your mind to be so open that your brain falls out."--Unknown ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 12:02:57 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Cynthia D. Bertelsen" Subject: Re: Chinese names and other names in indexes It does seem to me that Matathir (Mahathir?) Mohamad, Datuk Seri (Prime Minister of Malaysia) would be the way to go. Mohamad is his first name, Datuk is an honorific, and Seri may also be a title of honor, and not really part of the name (sort of like adding "Sir" after some English names in indexes). This is an interpretation of AACR2 Rule 22.12A and rules under 22.27, "Malay Names." You may want to make a cross-reference from Datuk Seri Matathir Mohamad, etc. Hope this helps. At 09:59 AM 12/19/96 EST, Lori Lathrop wrote: > Prime Minister Datuk Seri Mahathir Mohamad, or other members > of the ruling party UNMO (United Malays National Organi- > zation). > >In this case, "Matathir" is the Prime Minister's last name ... but where would >you put "Mohamad" (which I believe is an honorary title)? Would this be correct? >-- > > Matathir Mohamad, Datuk Seri (Prime Minister of Malaysia) > >TIA for being such a great resource (and for saving me from tromping thru the >snow to my downtown office, where all my reference books are). > >Lori >(still fighting a nasty sinus infection) >****************************************************************** >Lori Lathrop ---------->INTERNET:76620.456@compuserve.com >Lathrop Media Services, P.O. Box 3065, Idaho Springs, CO 80452 >Office: 303-567-4447, ext. 28 / Fax: 303-567-9306 >****************************************************************** > > ************ Cynthia D. Bertelsen INDEXER Blacksburg, VA cbertel@nrv.net http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 12:32:20 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Bah, humbug! Dick, I have had trouble getting paid in the past. Fortunately, I've been working for companies that have paid promptly recently. Here is what I've done to get paid. (And most of the transgressors were corporations, although the problems originated with the individuals responsible for processing my invoices.) First, I make a nuisance of myself, let the individual know that the checks are late or missing. I request that a rush processing job be done by accounting and that I expect the check to be sent by FedEx and received by such-and-such a date. (And most companies oblige) I explain that I cannot pay my mortgage, etc. and will have to pay late fees due to the delayed check. I will then "offer" to invoice the company for the late fees. In one instance, I was working on another project for the same company. I wrote an involved letter reminding the individual responsible that I was providing a professional service for a fee, that the service had been done to their satisfaction and delivered on time. That I expected the same professional courtesy from them, ie. to be paid on time. And that the contract specified payment for my services within time period involved, not that the service would be done gratis. Then I asked what their reaction would be if I sat on a finished index for four weeks (knowing that I had one I could sit on, probably wouldn't, but could;D) without sending it to them, never of course suggesting that I would do such a thing. I got the check within a week. If you are having problems with your editor or contact (if they are the offending party, having delayed your invoice), find out who their supervisor is and call him/her. You could also try to find out where the accounting office is and contact them, asking them about the status of your invoice (especially if you have an invoice number or some type of reference). It is also very important to back your efforts up in writing if you are calling. I emailed and faxed and mailed copies of letters to people while making phone calls to be certain that everyone was aware of the situation. In all instances, I was able to get paid within a week or so (with one exception--an editor with whom I will never work again who sat on my invoice out of sheer ditziness). Good luck. Leslie LLF Editorial Services BTW, I learned to include a line about late fees in my contracts because of so many delayed checks. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 09:41:02 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mike Hall Organization: mediamode Subject: Re: Help help help! Glenda Brown wrote a paper on automatic indexing and abstracting that was presented at the Indexing in the Electronic Age Conference this year in Australia, which may serve as a pretty good introduction to the different kinds of indexing software available. It also has a good review of Indexicon. You can find it at http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi/browneg.htm Hope this helps. Mike ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 12:47:55 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: Chinese names and other names in indexes (fwd) Thanks again, Hazel! I'm soooo glad I'm not the only one who's not sure how to deal with some foreign names & honorary titles. Altho' I don't have my reference library here in my home office, I do have Internet access ... so I did a search on the Web, and that seemed to confirm the entry I'd created. I guess I should add the Cambridge to my reference library. ;-) Happy holidays ... and happy indexing .... Lori ******************************************************************* Lori Lathrop ---------->INTERNET:76620.456@compuserve.com Lathrop Media Services, P.O. Box 3065, Idaho Springs, CO 80452 Office: 303-567-4447, ext. 28 / Fax: 303-567-9306 ******************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 13:00:54 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Laura M. Gottlieb" Subject: Chinese names 19 December 1996 Lori Lathrop asked how to index the "Mohamad" in Malaysian prime minister Mahathir's name. My trusy _Cambridge Biographical Dictionary_ lists his name as "Mahathir bin Mohamad" and alphabetizes it under "Mahathir." Says he was born in 1925, was a doctor, then was elected as a UMNO candidate as prime minister in 1979 and re-elected in 1982, 1986, and 1990. Hope this helps! I don't know what to do with the other names or titles you mentioned that are associated with him. ---Laura Moss Gottlieb Freelance Indexer Laura Moss Gottlieb Freelance Indexer 212 Highland Avenue Madison, Wisconsin 53705 (608) 233-4559 pgottlie@facstaff.wisc.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 14:10:22 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Elaine R. Firestone" Subject: Controlled-vocabulary indexing Hello everyone. Since this is my first post to Index-L, I'll introduce myself. My name is Elaine Firestone and I'm a Sr. Technical Editor at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center. My main position is the editing and typesetting of a series of technical memoranda (TM) documenting an ocean color remote sensing satellite mission, however, I'm also the indexer and writer of our index volumes of the TM series. I posted my indexing questions to another member of this list, but since she hasn't dealt with what she called "controlled-vocabulary indexing in a periodical" she suggested I query this list for help. Here is the majority of the original post: We now have 39 volumes in the series and I'm just starting to edit the 40th. Since launch (of the satellite) has been delayed for three years (it was supposed to go up in July 1993), the series wasn't envisioned to go on as long as it has but... Anyway, every sixth volume of the series is a cumulative index. It includes lists of all acronyms, symbols, and references used within the series, to date (i.e., index volume #24 would include everything up to 23 and index vol. #36 includes everything up to 35, etc.). The main function, however, of the index is to provide an index of key words and phrases that at least initially, were predetermined at the time of printing (for the databases these things are catalogued in). I write these index volumes. I do all the indexing, data entry, editing, typesetting, etc. for these volumes, but I'm not really sure at this point if I'm doing the indexing correctly. I do all the indexing manually, i.e., nothing is electronic. I review what the key words and phrases are for the "new" volumes being covered in the latest index, look for them, and then go back to see if existing words (from previous indices) occur in the "new" volumes. Then, I go back to the old volumes and see if any of the "new" words occur, and so on. Example: I'm finishing up the most recent index #36. (Vol. 30 was the index before.) 1) I first start with indexing the _new_ words from vols. 31--35. 2) Then I go back and see if any words _already_ in vol. 30 are in the new volumes and index them if they are. 3) Then I go back to all the old volumes and see if any of the _new_ words appear in them and index them. Am I doing it right? No one has ever said otherwise to me and the indices have received a lot of kudos, but that doesn't mean they are being done correctly. ____________________ I'd appreciate any pointers or advice anyone could offer. Indexing software isn't an option. TIA. elaine ___________________________________________________________________ Elaine R. Firestone, AESE Voice: (301) 286-4553 Senior Technical Editor Fax: (301) 286-1775 Records&Information Manager Net: elaine@calval.gsfc.nasa.gov NASA/GSFC/GSC/Code 970.2 elaine@seawifs.gsfc.nasa.gov Bldg. 28, Rm. W128 Greenbelt, MD 20771 "I'm not trying to change the world... USA just make it more readable." --E.R. Firestone SeaWiFS Home Page: http://seawifs.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEAWIFS.html SeaWiFS Style Manual: http://seawifs.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEAWIFS/TECH_REPORTS/style_manual.html ___________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 14:32:37 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Cynthia D. Bertelsen" Subject: Re: Malay names In this case, the "bin" is a filial term and means "son of." According to rule 22.27C1 of AACR2, one is to "omit words or abbreviations denoting filial relationship unless consistently used by the person." AACR2 has much more detailed information about names than does CMS. Perhaps the best place to search for the correct form of names is on OCLC's First Search online catalog, since the Library of Congress cataloging procedures attempt to be the standard authority for forms of names. If the person has been written about or has written a book, you will probably find him/her there. At 01:00 PM 12/19/96 -0600, you wrote: > 19 December 1996 > >Lori Lathrop asked how to index the "Mohamad" in Malaysian prime minister >Mahathir's name. My trusy _Cambridge Biographical Dictionary_ lists his >name as "Mahathir bin Mohamad" and alphabetizes it under "Mahathir." Says >he was born in 1925, was a doctor, then was elected as a UMNO candidate as >prime minister in 1979 and re-elected in 1982, 1986, and 1990. Hope this >helps! I don't know what to do with the other names or titles you mentioned >that are associated with him. >---Laura Moss Gottlieb >Freelance Indexer >Laura Moss Gottlieb >Freelance Indexer >212 Highland Avenue >Madison, Wisconsin 53705 >(608) 233-4559 >pgottlie@facstaff.wisc.edu > > ************ Cynthia D. Bertelsen INDEXER Blacksburg, VA cbertel@nrv.net http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 14:50:19 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rob Rudnick <72271.175@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: Chinese names Just caught up with your Chinese names thread, and had to butt in. Most of it was correct, but the Wellisch quote was a little misleading - Many modern Chinese also use only two names (in fact its a trend for new baby names, I hear), and unless you're familiar with common Chinese family names, it can be impossible to tell which is the family name and which the personal name. In China, the family name is always first, but Chinese working or living here often - though not always - use the English style. Add to that the fact that at least two romanization systems are in common use, and many Chinese have made up their own ways to spell their names, and you have a real morass. All this comes from the fact that Chinese doesn't use an alphabet, so rendering Chinese into letters is rather arbitrary at best. ANYWAY, Mao is the family name - it can appear as Mao Zedong or Mao Tse-tung - same person, and Deng can be Deng Xiaoping or Teng Hsiao-p'ing. I presume to tell you all this because I've studied Chinese for many years, and used to teach it. It's great fun, if you like mazes. Feel free to contact me directly if you've got further Chinese questions (I receive only the index to this list, so almost never actually READ any postings -- it was either that or unsubscribe). Anne Holmes EdIndex Maine, USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 15:58:29 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Re: Bah, humbug! In-Reply-To: <199612191652.LAA21027@polaris.net> On Thu, 19 Dec 1996, Richard T. Evans wrote: > Anyone else having trouble getting paid? Yes, indeed. I had a large check for an indexing project outstanding; the check finally showed up after almost 60 days. Turns out that my editor's boss sat on my bill--and those of other freelancers--for more than a month before submitting all of the invoices to Accounts Payable. (She ostensibly "forgot" about our invoices, and my editor tells me that her boss is "extremely busy." Well, hey, aren't we all?) Then, Accounts Payable sat on the invoices for almost another month. Repeated phonecalls and subtle threats to hold another project hostage (the project arrived while I was out of town on vacation; it came with a "THIS IS A RUSH PROJECT!" note, but I was unwilling to begin work on it until I'd been paid for the last project) helped not a bit. Accounts Payable said it'd be delighted to stop payment on the check that was "in the mail" and reissue another, but "it will take you at least two more months to receive a new check." Well, the check *did* show up on Tuesday. Finally. BTW, this client is a large and reputable press, for which I've worked quite some time. A freelance editor friend, who also works for large and reputable presses, has at least two checks that haven't been paid yet. Her theory is that presses lose their minds around the holidays. Can any of the publishers out there shed light on this vexing problem? Late payment (which, for me, means anything over 30 days from the press's receipt of the project) is always a problem, but at this expensive time of the year, it's a disaster. Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net), Tallahassee, Florida, USA "It is possible for your mind to be so open that your brain falls out."--Unknown ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 18:09:17 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: Chinese names In response to Anne Holmes (72271.175@compuserve.com), who said: > I presume to tell you all this because I've studied Chinese > for many years, and used to teach it. It's great fun, if you > like mazes. I knew that indexing Chinese names could be difficult ... and now I have a better understanding of just *why* it's so difficult! Thanks for the quick lesson on Chinese names and for offering assistance if I have further questions. I'm definitely going to keep your posting for future reference. Lori ******************************************************************* Lori Lathrop ---------->INTERNET:76620.456@compuserve.com Lathrop Media Services, P.O. Box 3065, Idaho Springs, CO 80452 Office: 303-567-4447, ext. 28 / Fax: 303-567-9306 ******************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 19:24:20 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Bah, humbug! In a message dated 96-12-19 11:55:03 EST, Dick wrote: > Anyone else having trouble getting paid? I have three separate clients > behind at the moment. As you might expect, I was planning on the money for > Christmas. I can understand individuals being slow to pay around Christmas, > but corporations? Dick, This is an issue that really sticks in my craw (whatever a craw is)! There are Accounts "Payable" (not in our lifetimes) departments that purposely sit on freelancers' invoices for 30 days regardless of the stated terms. I know because they have told me so. Of course we can't sit on our own payables for however long WE like without getting evicted, having utilities cut off, nastygrams sent to TRW, etc. On December 1st, I was floating $5,000 in payables which made it real fun talking to my landlord. It didn't help that the month before a client accidentally bounced a big check that was to cover the rent and the replacement check didn't come until after the rent was due. (Fortunately, my landlord himself is a small business owner, in addition to real estate, so he understood.) Plus, on the two occasions where clients, both well-known large publishers, were hideously late (one by 85 days and another by over 60 days), they refused to pay the late charges (as outlined in the terms on the original invoices) prominently tacked onto the second and third notices. Of course, we freelancers have to pay late charges to OUR creditors. (We're definitely on the wrong side of the power ratio here.) Plus, the over-60-day culprit inexplicably underpaid me by $400-$500! And didn't return my phone calls requesting an explanation. Now, how's that for unmitigated gall????? Whew, I had to get that all off my chest! Now, in regards to Christmas, one December I've actually had a large corporation pay me wayyyy faster than usual in a big check that covered two invoices for two indexes that I had sent them back-to-back. Apparently, they were trying, tax-wise, to get it off their books (and onto mine ;-D) before the end of the year. However, I think the norm is that, around holidays, Accounts Payables departments go off on vacation being that Accounts Payables aren't necessarily considered... ahem... essential to company operations. It was the Thanksgiving holiday, I was told, that was the cause of the delay for one of the payables I found myself floating at the beginning of this month. Oh, and of course this particular client is always in a big rush for their indexes, I having indexed 800 pages for them in 4-5 days for the invoices they then paid with such glaaaaaaacial speed. (And I send this client's invoices directly to Accounts Payable, so it's not the editor's fault.) A question: has anyone had successfully improved their cash flow by offering a discount for payment within 15 days, and if so, what percentage is the norm? Thanks in advance. Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 19:24:22 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Bah, humbug! In a message dated 96-12-19 16:39:57 EST, Hazel wrote in describing a ghastly experience: > Repeated phonecalls and subtle > threats to hold another project hostage (the project arrived while I > was out of town on vacation; it came with a "THIS IS A RUSH > PROJECT!" note, but I was unwilling to begin work on it until I'd > been paid for the last project) helped not a bit. Hazel, Aiiish! What a horror story!!! In my other post to this thread, I managed to get a client that was 85 days late to pay me by refusing to do another index for them until I was paid. My situation was different from yours in that they hadn't sent the proofs yet, and the editor was appropriately horrified and shook the AP department's tree. Another difference was that the 85-day fiasco was for the first index I ever did for them and that it was an apparent fluke because they were the same client that later paid me extremely quickly in time for Christmas. So, having taken a chance on them the second time, they fortunately became one of my best clients and I'm even indexing one of their books as we speak. > Accounts Payable > said it'd be delighted to stop payment on the check that was "in the mail" > and reissue another, but "it will take you at least two more months to > receive a new check." BTW, how in the world could your client's AP department have the nerve to threaten to stop payment on a check for work you already delivered when you hinted at holding their current project hostage?????!!!!!!! Oh never mind! What arrogance!!!! (Obviously this discussion has gotten me into a testy mood.) Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 19:45:47 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Re: Bah, humbug! In-Reply-To: <199612200027.TAA06985@polaris.net> On Thu, 19 Dec 1996 Lynn Moncrief wrote: > BTW, how in the world could your client's AP department have the nerve to > threaten to stop payment on a check for work you already delivered when you > hinted at holding their current project hostage?????!!!!!!! I don't know if this is the case at lots of publishing houses, but the editor for whom I work told me she *never* has contact with the Accounts Payable people. She said they're a secretive bunch and that it's *extremely* difficult to track them down. No one in AP is willing to admit to having seen a particular freelancer's invoice. The editor had to do lots of telephoning before she could actually get through to AP. She doesn't even know where in the building they're located. So, AP neither knew nor cared that I already had a rush project sitting on my desk. I know the editor's not lying. She works full-time for the press and takes on freelance editing for the publisher, as well. *She* was one of the "freelancers" who also hadn't been paid on time!! Now, I've worked for this publisher for quite a while. Normally, I'm paid *exactly* thirty days after the client receives my index. This is the first time that I've been paid late. So, I'll assume this miserable experience was a fluke. If it happens again, I may well say goodbye to the publisher as a client, much as I like working for the editor. Three incidents of late payment from one client is the max I'm willing to endure. Then it's goodbye. And I, too, am *very* curious about what happens if people give a discount if clients pay within fifteen days. I've thought about instituting this policy--but then I'm afraid that some unscrupulous client might take the percentage off, pay me within thirty days (but after fifteen), and plead problems with the U.S. Postal "Service." I guess law school just made me suspicious. Yes, this subject gets me TESTY, also. Especially in December, when my husband and I celebrate our anniversary, Chanukah, *and* Christmas. Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net), Tallahassee, Florida, USA "It is possible for your mind to be so open that your brain falls out."--Unknown ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 22:08:17 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Joel S. Berson" Subject: Re: Bah, humbug! Someone at the Fall 1996 meeting of the Massachusetts chapter of ASI said that she offered a discount for prompt payments (or was it a penalty for late payments?!), and that it worked out well. Unfortunately I don't remember who it was, or which publisher(s). Perhaps someone else who was at that meeting may remember. Joel ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 22:28:48 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Hollister Subject: Annual Conference, ASI Golden Gate Chapter, January 25, 1997 Hello, everyone. I've been lurking here for about 2 years, and will attempt my first post to let everyone know about our annual midwinter conference. Hope this works! On behalf of the American Society of Indexers' Golden Gate Chapter, I would like to invite you to attend our 14th Annual Midwinter Conference. We all hope to see you there! The conference registration form is available online - please see below: Date: --Saturday, January 25, 1997 Time: --8:15 am to 5:00 pm Where: --San Francisco Airport Marriott, Burlingame, CA Theme: --Indexing Contexts and Connections Presentations: - Publishing world trends - Indexing for independent publishing services companies - Localization of software publications for foreign markets - Indexing of international legal materials - Indexing a controversial on-line archive - Internet services and software options - Roundtable discussion topics hosted by GG-ASI members - Vendor-assisted viewing of dedicated indexing software programs Speakers: --Jane Bassett, UCSF Medical Center Library --Brian Chew, MentorNet of San Francisco --Thomas Edwards, International Language Engineering Corp. --Patricia Holt, Editor of the_Book Beview_,_San Francisco Chronicle_ --Tom Reynolds, _The Index to Foreign Legal Periodicals_ --Christine Taylor, Wilsted & Taylor Publishing Exhibitors: --Representatives of dedicated indexing software programs will have demonstration tables and product information. How to Register: --Fees are as follows: if postmarked before/on January 5, 1997 ASI members $75, Nonmembers $85. If postmarked after January 5, 1997 ASI members $86, Nonmembers $96. The fee includes buffet lunch (some vegetarian dishes), breakfast pastries and beverages, and afternoon snacks and beverages. --Check or money order (payable to ASI Golden Gate Chapter) and completed registration form should be mailed to: Karen Hollister 840 Bloomfield Road Sebastopol CA 95472-5154. --The registration form (and additional information) is available from Karen Hollister by email at khollis@aol.com or by regular mail at 840 Bloomfield Road, Sebastopol CA 95472-5154. --Information about the conference speakers or exhibitors is available from conference coordinator Susan Coerr by email at suzcoerr@aol.com or by regular mail at 731 44th Avenue San Francisco CA 94121-3305. (tel. 415-387-4518). I hope I'll get to meet some of you at the meeting! Karen Hollister ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 02:24:10 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Bah, humbug! Dick wrote: >Anyone else having trouble getting paid? I have three separate clients >behind at the moment. As you might expect, I was planning on the money for >Christmas. I can understand individuals being slow to pay around Christmas, >but corporations? I often find corporations, especially large ones, to be ^worse^ than individuals and very small companies. It gets lost in their computer or has to be shipped across the country to their purchasing department. Good luck! Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 09:20:39 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Re: Bah, humbug! In-Reply-To: <199612200144.UAA22847@polaris.net> On Thu, 19 Dec 1996, Joel S. Berson wrote: > Someone at the Fall 1996 meeting of the Massachusetts chapter of ASI > said that she offered a discount for prompt payments (or was it a > penalty for late payments?!), and that it worked out well. At the foot of all my bills is the prominent "Please pay within 30 days to avoid incurring finance charges of 18% per year (1 1/2% per month)." When clients call me about work, I tell them about this penalty. Yet, I've only had a couple of late-paying clients actually come up with the penalty. Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net), Tallahassee, Florida, USA "It is possible for your mind to be so open that your brain falls out."--Unknown ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 12:41:58 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Tortora Subject: IN NEED OF ADVICE I am new to the indexing business and am looking for the best way to contact potential clients. Any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 12:42:39 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Elaine R. Firestone" Subject: Indexing multiple Word(?) files Hello everyone. Today, my husband asked me if I knew of any feature in Word that does automatic indexing. He has multiple files (of resumes) that he believes are in Word (or possibly ASCII). He would like to get them indexed. His questions are: 1) Does this feature exist in Word? 2) If "Yes" (to #1) do you have to bring in one file at a time and index it? or 3) Can you bring in multiple files in some way and index them all at once? 4) If Word doesn't do this, is there another software package (hopefully inexpensive) on the market that will. TIA. elaine Elaine R. Firestone elaine@calval.gsfc.nasa.gov elaine@seawifs.gsfc.nasa.gov ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 13:05:18 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: WordenDex@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Bah, humbug! Where are these slow-pay publishers located? East coast or elsewhere? An editor I work with regularly commented, "Never trust New York publishers," when I told her of one who reneged on an email payscale agreement (nothing signed by either party). Rather than accept half of the agreeed upon rate, after completing work assigned, I suggested someone else be contacted to do it from scratch. Half was not better than none. Have any of you experienced this too? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 20:42:11 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: WMacallen@AOL.COM Subject: Re: INDEX-L unavailable mail AOL has been so frustrating to deal with for the past month that I've finally registered with The Information Access Company for a 14-day trial period. Thank goodness there are at least some choices available for us as online consumers in this world of ever-growing monopolies!! My query is this: Is it really worthwhile to hang on to aol for its indexing files? I'd appreciate any thoughts. Thanks for all of the helpful information shared thus far on this subject. My new email address is: macallen@tiac.net Thanks again. Merry Christmas. Willa MacAllen MacAllen's Information Services macallen@tiac.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 23:10:52 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: ?? re Legal Indexing Billing Friends, I've been asked to index a legal book by an author to whom I came well recommended, despite not having done legal indexing before -- just on the strength of a long indexing career and reputation, I guess. I can't tell you how flattered I am! I'm told it's an "easy read" for a legal book, but to me it'll be a challenge! My question involves giving an estimate on cost, which I was asked for when called by the publisher. The book requires a subject index and a Table of Authorities. Is there a usual per-page rate for doing both of these, or are they usually costed separately? Any information will be welcome prior to my call back to the publisher on Monday. Private email is fine, unless people are willing to share and wish to post publicly. I really want a general idea of the range of fees, and to know whether to bill as one index, or split the cost of each unit out. Thank you in advance for any information. Janet Perlman ------------> jperlman@aol.com Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 08:09:18 -0400 Reply-To: rachelr@tiac.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Organization: Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Subject: nodding off I can't stay awake. I'm indexing a critical translation of a 19th century treatise. It's aimed for Hebrew scholars. It's incomprehensible to me and I fall asleep after about 9 minutes, even at my desk. I can't figure out what the reader will be looking up, there's no help from the section headers. This is from the company that limits me to 3 entries per page. Well, no problem there, I can't figure out the concepts, nor the relationships, and I can't concentrate on it long enough to make any sense of it. I take my Ritalin, but even that can't make me focus, nor keep me awake. This has never happened to me before. Last job for this company, no questions there. Any Jewish scholars out there who can help me out off line? I have a few questions that are too embarassing, as a Jew, to post in public. Willa: I'm very happy with TIAC and don't miss AOL for a second. Re Bah Humbug, so far I've been paid withing a few days of 30 days from delivery but one client, who is a book producer for publishers, who pays me when he gets paid, so it's often 6 weeks out. But he tells me at the front of each job when to expect the payment, so at least I can plan for it. I do have bad cash flow problems. Thank goodness for my part time job. Which I hate and can't wait to have a good enough cash flow to drop it. I'm light headed. It's 8:06 a.m. and I'm ready for a nap. Rachel ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 09:42:22 -0500 Reply-To: wgm@sageline.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: William Meisheid Organization: Sageline Publishing Subject: Re: Bah, humbug! Hazel, >>At the foot of all my bills is the prominent "Please pay within 30 days to avoid incurring finance charges of 18% per year (1 1/2% per month)." When clients call me about work, I tell them about this penalty. Yet, I've only had a couple of late-paying clients actually come up with the penalty.<< Part of that is due to the fact that you have to send a new bill each month, reflecting the new amount. If you don't they won't give it to you. I have found that sending a new bill gets results with some clients. However, most businesses float a large percentage of their contract fees. If you are floating two months worth (not unusual), then in effect the company has a free load for the amount unpaid. Since that is continually rolled over (keeping the approx. two month backlog) they never have to deal with it. I knew one company that had about $500,000 they had "borrowed" from their contractors. -- William Meisheid "Thoughts still and always in progress" Certified RoboHELP Training WUGNET/Hypertext Technologies sysop on Compuserve Sageline Publishing www.sageline.com wgm@sageline.com 410.465.1548 Fax: 410.744.2456 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 09:54:38 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: Re: INDEX-L unavailable mail WMacallen@AOL.COM wrote: > My query is this: Is it really worthwhile to hang on to aol for its > indexing files? I'd appreciate any thoughts. Just my experience: I still have an AOL account (the new Lite account; $4.95/month, just a few hours) that I use only for transferring files. I have never looked at or used the AOL indexing folders (well, maybe I looked once, over a year ago). I've found that I get all the help I need from INDEX-L and from off-list communication with fellow indexers. Again, that's just my experience. Ann Norcross Crossover Information Services ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 14:01:22 PST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Helen Suomela-Tyrrell Macrex demo I apologize for sending this to the list, but I am having trouble contacting Macrex. I ordered the Macrex demo in September, using the form received in my indexing class. Almost 4 months later, I still have not received the demo. I have tried contacting Bayside Indexing in Daly City by phone and letter to no avail. The Macrex e-mail address at AOL apparently does not work. Can someone advise how to contact Macrex? Thank you, Helen Tyrrell ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 21:14:58 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Tortora Subject: how to contact I am new to indexing and am looking for suggestions as to how to contact potential clients. Would it be appropriate to send a resume, brochure etc.? Any and all suggestions welcome. Thanks, Sue Tortora