From: SMTP%"LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu" 2-MAR-1996 08:58:36.99 To: CIRJA02 CC: Subj: File: "INDEX-L LOG9602C" Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 08:37:10 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9602C" To: CIRJA02@GSVMS1.CC.GASOU.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 13:30:30 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Miller Subject: Indexing local newspapers with Cindex ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I index the local newspaper for our public library, creating a printed index with WordPerfect in a table format. This is not very satisfactory, and I have been considering pushing for Cindex software. My concern is that it might not allow me to include a "summary" entry for each news item as I do now. Can someone familiar with Cindex tell me if I can create entries such as this: Schools/ Central 2/8/1995 p. 3 List of PTO members; Mitten tree a success; Coffee with new principal Weddings/ Smith 2/8/1995 p. 3 Susan Smith and Joe Jones married in Evanston 1/1/96. Sometimes the "Summaries" are quite lengthy. Thanks for suggestions. Karen Miller ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 13:30:39 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey Subject: Re: Indexing page ranges ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- At 16:49 12/02/96 ECT, you wrote: >----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >Hi all, > >I have a query regarding the format of page ranges. In a document I wish to >index, the page numbers include the chapter number (ie 3-4). I am using the >indexing facility in Interleaf (version 6.0). When this creates an entry for a >page range of (say) 3-4 to 3-6, it generates an abomination like 3-4-3-6 . > >My question is: `How do I present a page range using the above page numbering >format?'. Can you substitute another punctuation mark for the hyphen in the page number, e.g. a colon, as in 3:4? Then a page range could be shown as 3:4-6 or (probably better) 3:4-3:6. To achieve this within, say, Word, you could do something like: i) Search for all occurences of and convert them to <##> ii) Search for all occurences of and convert them to <##> iii) Change all hyphens to colons. iv) Change all ##s to hyphens. v) Delete all ##'s. You would need to elaborate on this if there were more than ninety-nine chapters, for instance, but you probably get the idea. Make sure you have backups all along the way in case something goes wrong! Jonathan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Jermey & Glenda Browne (Blue Mountains Desktop Pty Ltd. - ACN 071 232 016) Blaxland NSW Australia jonathan@magna.com.au http://www.magna.com.au/~jonathan Australian Wildlife in the Cheese Shop: "We had some, but the cat's eaten it." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 09:23:57 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Andre De Tienne Subject: Re: Indexing local newspapers with Cindex ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > >Weddings/ Smith 2/8/1995 p. 3 Susan Smith and Joe Jones married > in Evanston 1/1/96. > I have no answer to Karen Miller's question, and I understand that the example above is bogus, but that the 2/8/1995 issue of a newspaper could talk about a 1/1/96 wedding as a past event is a feat worth pointing out. Andre *************************************************************************** Andre De Tienne Tel.(W): 317-274-2033 Assistant Editor Tel.(H): 317-328-8789 Peirce Edition Project, IUPUI Fax: 317-274-2347 CA 545, 425 University Boulevard E-mail: adetienn@indyvax.iupui.edu Indianapolis, IN 46202-5140 adetienn@indycms.iupui.edu *************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 09:24:13 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey Subject: Re: Multiple instances of programs ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- At 14:23 14/02/96 ECT, Larry Harrison wrote: >----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >Lynn wrote: > >>The cool thing about Win95 (IMHO) is being able to switch tasks by clicking >>on the name of the program displayed on the Task bar that you want to switch >>to. >>..snip... >>Win95 doesn't even seem >>to care when I've accidently launched a second instance of Macrex, a goof >>that causes Windows 3.1 to go down in flames. > >Macintosh advantage #27. It won't launch a second instance of an application. a) I never had problems running two instances of Macrex under Windows 3.1, provided of course they were using different files. Sometimes I _want_ to run two instances, to compare old and new versions of an index, for example. Since Macrex doesn't have internal windows, this is the only way to do it. b) Win 95, however, _does_ prevent the running of two instances of Windows programs (I haven't tried DOS). Another Mac 'advantage' bites the dust! Jonathan. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Jermey & Glenda Browne (Blue Mountains Desktop Pty Ltd. - ACN 071 232 016) Blaxland NSW Australia jonathan@magna.com.au http://www.magna.com.au/~jonathan Australian Wildlife in the Cheese Shop: "We had some, but the cat's eaten it." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 16:56:06 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Re: Multiple instances of programs In-Reply-To: <9602161424.AA06545@carson.u.washington.edu> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Sorry, Jeremy, but you CAN open two copies of a Win95 application at the same time, assuming you have sufficient RAM to handle it; I just tested it by opening two copies of Word for Windows and creating separate documents in each copy. It's not something I would intentionally do (normally I would simply open more than one document at a time in a single copy) but it can be done. I have also had more than one copy of CINDEX open at a time in both Win 3.1 and in Win95 (never on purpose; but I'm absent-minded!), and the system never did go 'down in flames' in either operating system. What did happen in Win 3.1 (before I upgraded to 16 MB ram in preparation for the upgrade to Win95) was that all-too-common 'out of memory' flag. Actually, the extra ram was the best investment I ever made in hardware upgrades! Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, Wa. e-mail: cweaver@u.washington.edu voice: 206/930-4348 On Fri, 16 Feb 1996, Jonathan Jermey wrote: > ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > At 14:23 14/02/96 ECT, Larry Harrison wrote: > >----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > >Lynn wrote: > > > >>The cool thing about Win95 (IMHO) is being able to switch tasks by clicking > >>on the name of the program displayed on the Task bar that you want to switch > >>to. > >>..snip... > >>Win95 doesn't even seem > >>to care when I've accidently launched a second instance of Macrex, a goof > >>that causes Windows 3.1 to go down in flames. > > > >Macintosh advantage #27. It won't launch a second instance of an application. > > a) I never had problems running two instances of Macrex under Windows 3.1, > provided of course they were using different files. Sometimes I _want_ to > run two instances, to compare old and new versions of an index, for example. > Since Macrex doesn't have internal windows, this is the only way to do it. > > b) Win 95, however, _does_ prevent the running of two instances of Windows > programs (I haven't tried DOS). Another Mac 'advantage' bites the dust! > > Jonathan. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- > Jonathan Jermey & Glenda Browne > (Blue Mountains Desktop Pty Ltd. - ACN 071 232 016) > Blaxland NSW Australia > jonathan@magna.com.au > http://www.magna.com.au/~jonathan > Australian Wildlife in the Cheese Shop: "We had some, but the cat's eaten it." > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 16:56:20 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MarlaABerg@aol.com Subject: earnings for new indexer ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I'm a career counselor who is seriously considering a new career in indexing. This listserv has been very valuable in my exploration so far. I've spoken to ASI headquarters and a local chapter president, but I'd like additional info about salary before I dive in. Since this is a personal subject, please feel free to respond to me directly if that feels more comfortable. Working about 40 hours per week freelance, what is the salary range someone starting out could expect? Thank you for your anticipated help. Marla Berg ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 10:05:50 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Richard S. Day" Subject: Re: Endorsement-based Indexing ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- On 9 February at 09:21, you wrote: -----------------------Original message---------------------------- > > Hi, everybody. > > I'm not a professional indexer, but I've been working in the > online field for over a decade, and I've been pondering what > I believe is an innovative approach to indexing the Web. > I'm curious if anybody knows of any work underway on the > notion of "endorsement-based indexing". The nearest manifestations of this which I can think of are (a) magazines listing "best of web" sites by category, and (b) organizations such as the Electronic Freedom Foundation inserting links in their pages to "like minded" sites of which they apparently approve. > Current indexes to the Web, such as Yahoo or InfoSeek, are > sort of "brute force" keyword indexes. Some indexes, like > Magellan, make a valid attempt to rate Web sites, but the > value of any such rating system is predicated upon the > assumption that the searcher fully values the rating > criteria and editorial application of the index creator. In > either case, the searcher is all too often awash in sites of > limited relevance to their particular intention. Yes, but... the web is such a huge, amorphous concatenation of "places" that just finding places of interest is a difficult affair. Which is where the brute force indexers serve a moderately useful role. > In such an "anyone-can-publish" environment as the World Wide > Web, I think it is increasingly important to provide _context_ > and _perspective_ for searchers to use to differentiate the > plethora of choices. An open endorsement-based index would > allow any person or organization to "endorse" Web sites, and > then enable those endorsements to be used as search (or filter) > criteria. ...[snip] > > This is akin to the practice one often sees of individuals > or organizations posting their "favorite links" or bookmark > lists on their own web pages. The difference is that by > interrelating these individually endorsed links, a greater > collective value is created. > > I wonder what people think of this idea, if any of the > indexer-types in this list have had similar ideas, and/or where > I might go to discuss and develop this line of thinking. Any > leads would be appreciated. Thanks. > Seth Some interesting ideas, but I am leery of predicting success for any effort to reliably index and rate "the web". I suspect the subject is just too large and complex. Example: I am consulting a private company which is building a web site for its products -- in this case, the "products" are books, magazines, CD-ROMs and similar publications. They will probably have over 15,000 "pages" on-line in another month or so. Somewhere between 3,000 and 5,000 of those pages will change each month. And that is just one, admittedly large, web site. Just indexing that monster and making it reader friendly is a headache. It also happens to be my consulting task 8-( Having said that, I feel there would be potential, and merit, in establishing something akin to the Sagat dining out guides -- bring together a smallish group of people of similar interests, establish some sort of "quality" criteria, and then go out and evaluate sites within a subject area or discipline, publishing the results as a series of ratings with links to the rated sites. AND review and update the rankings on a known schedule. For example, a site which evaluated and rated web sites dealing with indexing. Make that site successful at that one mission, then gradually expand it to deal with related disciplines. My two cents... Ric ricday@mbfw451.mlnet.com ricday@msn.com ricday@compuserve.com (70521,2167) a9031@mindlink.bc.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 10:06:48 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Elizabeth M. Moys" Subject: Indexing page ranges AND bomb damage to UK publisher In-Reply-To: <824224755.6472.4@wnt.dc.lsoft.com> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In reply to various messages concerning >>I have a query regarding the format of page ranges. In a document I wish to >>index, the page numbers include the chapter number (ie 3-4). I am using the >>indexing facility in Interleaf (version 6.0). When this creates an entry for a >>page range of (say) 3-4 to 3-6, it generates an abomination like 3-4-3-6 . >> For what it is worth: English law publishers use chapters (sections, divisions, etc.) frequently as part of their location numbers, e.g. 3-1234, VI 567. The first is a sample paragraph number of Sweet & Maxwell's, which MUST be printed with the hyphen. In large looseleaf works, they specify the use of "ff", rather than inclusive paragraph numbers, but these ARE needed in textbooks of the Chitty or Archbold variety. Where an inclusive paragraph reference is needed, they use an em rule, to be indicated by the indexer by a double hyphen "--". I don't particularly like it, but it seems to be the least worst solution. Butterworths use a variety of different styles of numbering sections and Divisions, one of which is shown as the second sample. Both publishers like to repeat the chapter number, so that you get location references such as 3.1234--3.1245 and VI 567-VI 578. In both these cases, it is the publishers' house style which rules, quite rightly. By the way, many of you will probably not know that the IRA bomb on 9 February severely damaged Sweet & Maxwell's offices in South Quay Plaza. Fortunately, only a handful of staff were still there, none of whom were injured, and they all escaped more or less safely. But they must have been shocked by the experience. Sweet & Maxwell have now opened offices in another building belonging to the same conglomerate: 100 Avenue Road Swiss Cottage London NW3 3PF. Phone (UK) 0171-538 8686 Fax (editorial) 0171-538 8626 I am sure they would welcome expressions of support from anyone who has been involved with their business at any time. Betty Moys ==================================================================== Elizabeth M. Moys email: betty@moys.demon.co.uk Phone & Fax: (UK) 01959-534530 Hengist, Badgers Road, Badgers Mount, Sevenoaks, Kent, TN14 7AT, England ==================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 10:07:07 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Spell Checking ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I use Macrex to create indexes, which I later import into WordPerfect 6.0 for final cleanup and editing. However, when I run the spell checker in WP it sometimes finds errors that change the order of the index. This is a pain to deal with, and it is possible to "lose" entries when this happens. I'd like to use a stand-alone spell checker with Macrex BEFORE I import an index file into WP. Does anybody else do this? If so, what's a good one to try out? It must be "editable"--I have to be able to add words to the lists myself. And it must be reasonably easy to operate. Any suggestions? =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 10:07:21 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MaryBFox@aol.com Subject: Re: Indexing local newspapers with Cindex ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Karen: I index two weekly newspapers and I find Cindex superb for it. I use Field 1 as subject heading and Field 2 as the headline entry. After I tab to the page field, I enter the abbreviation for the appropriate paper, the date, and the page number. I taught myself almost entirely from the excellent manual, with some special guidance from Frances Lennie. If you would like to communicate with me personally about this, e-mail to maryfox@delphi.com. MARRIAGES Smith/Jones (photo) DT 1/1/96 p.3 SCHOOLS - CENTRAL List of PTO members DNR 2/8/95 p. 3 Coffee a success DNR 2/8/95 p.3 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 10:13:08 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey Subject: Re: earnings for new indexer ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- At 16:56 16/02/96 ECT, Marla Berg wrote: >----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > >Working about 40 hours per week freelance, what is the salary range someone >starting out could expect? Thank you for your anticipated help. > The recommended rate for indexing set by the Australian Society of Indexers is $35 per hour - this is Australian dollars, but with higher pay and higher costs of living in the US it probably pans out roughly the same. HOWEVER, if you put in 40 hours a week indexing then you will need to find at least another three to four hours for networking, phone calls, reading articles, reviewing e-mail (;-)) and generally keeping up with things. Book indexing is also very intensive and trying to do it full-time for more than a few days at a stretch will probably lead to impaired quality. A more realistic maximum workload would be thirty hours a week. Whether you can get this much work or not, though... that's another story. Jonathan. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Jermey & Glenda Browne (Blue Mountains Desktop Pty Ltd. - ACN 071 232 016) Blaxland NSW Australia jonathan@magna.com.au http://www.magna.com.au/~jonathan Australian Wildlife in the Cheese Shop: "We had some, but the cat's eaten it." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 15:17:21 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Patricia Buchanan Subject: sorting in Cindex ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I am indexing a combination biography and history of a medical faculty with three doctors as the main "characters." I want the index to be sorted alphabetically overall with the indented style; however, I want the subheads for the main three doctors to be chronological and perhaps run-on in style. I index with Cindex but have had it only four months so am a bit of a novice with the software and its capabilities. Is there any method of having TWO ways of sorting in the same index? Suggestions appreciated . . . Many thanks. Pat Buchanan (not THAT Pat Buchanan! - am I ever getting comments and jokes!) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 15:17:30 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@aol.com Subject: Re: earnings for new indexer ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Marla, IF you worked 40 hours per week, and IF you index 10 pages per hour and did nothing but index, that would be 400 pages per month, which, if you figure at a rate of $3/page, would give you $1,200 per month. HOWEVER -- you couldn't index 10 pages an hour for 40 hours. You'd have to spend time marking pages, but then there'd be time for computer input thrown in, editing the index printout periodically, or at the end of the project at least, etc. So you have to figure not all hours worked are at that pay rate. Doing an index and completing the project requires much more than sitting in front of the pages. And it is extremely difficult to keep up that intensity, as Jonathan said. You must figure time for email, errands, phone calls and correspondence, marketing yourself, trips to the office supply store, bank, FedEx, etc ... all of which either take you away from indexing, or are hours in addition to indexing hours. IF one worked at that rate, one could make $50,000 a year. BUT ... big BUT ... you'd have to have enough work on your desk to keep you busy at all times, which is not the usual except for a very experienced indexer with a large clientele. Not too likely for a beginning indexer. It does take quite a while after you learn your indexing skills to send resumes out, get to know people through networking, and begin to get your own clients. I'd say, from those I've known and helped, that it takes at least 6 months, more like a year. In that time, you earn very little or nothing. Then it begins slowly, and one job at a time. It can take a couple of years to build into a proposition where you can support yourself fully on it. Best to begin part-time and go through the learning and building while you have another source of support. AND ... you'd have to command that per page rate, which is also not a beginner's rate. You can expect lower than that -- maybe $2 to $2.50 per page at first, and will have to fight to get it up there. At that per page rate, earnings are commensurately less. AND ... you have to be able to keep up that pace, which admittedly is not easy. The faster you work, the more you'll make. Also, the longer hours you work, the more you'll make. Please bear in mind that these figures are gross earnings, not net. You'll have to pay out quarterly taxes and self-employment (FICA) out of this money, your health insurance, disability insurance, phone bill, FedEx or UPS charges, etc, etc... So it's not all free and clear, like a salary. Hope this all helps to orient you to the realities of indexing as a business. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing (jperlman@aol.com) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 11:32:01 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charles Anderson Subject: Re: Spell Checking In-Reply-To: <9602191512.AA50343@rs6a.wln.com> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- You could always switch to CINDEX, which comes with a built-in spell checker . . . Charles Anderson canderso@wln.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 11:32:12 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dwight Walker Subject: Re: Request for Translations ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- At 04:52 PM 13/02/96 ECT, you wrote: >----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >I'm indexing a not-to-technical computer book for semi-casual surfers. There >are terms included that wish to expand. Though I've seen them many times and >know their meaning in practical usage, I wish to use the complete version in >parentheses after the acronym or initials. > >for example: LAN (Local Area Network) and FTP (File Transfer Protocol) > >If fellow Index-L subscribers can help unravel the following, It will save me >from the task of locating and peering through other computer books to find >the terms. > A good reference: http://wombat.doc.ic.ac.uk:80/ Computer Dictionary in Imperial College, UK >CIM [versions] CompuServe Information Manager >FAQs Frequently Asked Questions >CUI [search utility] Centre Universitaire d'Informatique (http://cuiwww.unige.ch/cgi-bin/w3catalog) >GIF [files] Graphics Interchange Format >HTML Hypertext Markup Language >JPEGs Joint Photographic Experts Group >MOOs MUD-Object Oriented >MUDs 'Multi-User Dungeons' or 'Multiple User Dimensions/Dialogues/Dungeons' >MUSHes Multi-User Shared Hallucination >NCSA [Mosaic interface] National Center for Supercomputing Applications >PPP [communication protocol] Point-to-Point Protocol >SLIP [communication protocol] Serial Line Internet Protocol > >Oops, this looks like a long list. Thanks in advance. > >Lee E. Brower >Brower Indexing Service >1608 N. Cleveland Av. >Loveland, Colorado 80538 >Lbindex@aol.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------- Dwight Walker, Sydney, Australia tel +61-2-3986726 (h) +61-2-4393750 (w), fax (work) +61-2-4383729 My Home Page: http://www.zeta.org.au/~dwalker AusSI Home Page: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 11:32:21 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@aol.com Subject: Re: earnings for new indexer ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In a message dated 96-02-19 15:44:41 EST, Janet wrote: >Marla, > >IF you worked 40 hours per week, and IF you index 10 pages per hour and did >nothing but index, that would be 400 pages per month, which, if you figure at >a rate of $3/page, would give you $1,200 per month. Everyone, Janet's a real close friend of mine and believe me when I tell you that she's usually far better at math than that. ;-D If you work 40 hrs/wk at 10 pages/hr, it would come to 400 pages per week which is $1200/wk or $4800/mo, which is not at all bad if you can sustain that volume of work. Granted, that would be an amazing feat for a beginner, but given the right kind of books, one can easily have $1-2000 weeks. Of course, one is bleary-eyed at that pace, living amidst towering piles of laundry and dust kitties so big that you've named them, spouse complaining of an empty pantry, etc., since if one is actually indexing 40 hrs per week, they're spending additional hours in administrative overhead. > >HOWEVER -- you couldn't index 10 pages an hour for 40 hours. You'd have to >spend time marking pages, but then there'd be time for computer input thrown >in, editing the index printout periodically, or at the end of the project at >least, etc. Not long after I started indexing, a much more experienced indexer told me that the secret to cranking more than 10pp/hr is to not mark the proofs. At first I found it extremely difficult because I had to learn yet another way of indexing, but now I would find it grueling to mark the pages by hand, then keyboard them into Macrex. Instead, I do an intense overscan of the book first, scanning for scope, indexable terms, etc. This can take a few hours, depending on the book, but is still much faster than actually marking the pages. Then, I index directly from the proofs, keying into Macrex as I go. (It helps that I'm one of those folks that can think much more clearly at the keyboard than with pen or pencil. Writing anything by hand is absolute agony.) Of course, this is a really intense process which can lead to brain burn if you're not careful. You're reading line by line at this point and are in an almost trancelike state of concentration. It does tend to generate larger, more detailed indexes, BTW, as it's much easier to double-post and create more permutations of a concept at the keyboard than when writing in longhand. I edit constantly which means that editing the entire index when it's finished usually takes only a few hours. Then, a whiz-bang macro in your word processor can zap it into a supercool format within a few seconds (if you take the time to create one). Anyway, with this method, it's possible to output 20-30 pp/hr on certain books once one gets used to working this way and gains experience in indexing in general. (The more you index, especially the same kind of material, the more readily index entries come to mind as you read.) > So you have to figure not all hours worked are at that pay rate. > Doing an index and completing the project requires much more than sitting in >front of the pages. And it is extremely difficult to keep up that intensity, >as Jonathan said. You must figure time for email, errands, phone calls and >correspondence, marketing yourself, trips to the office supply store, bank, >FedEx, etc ... all of which either take you away from indexing, or are hours >in addition to indexing hours. There are ways to cut down on administrative overhead. I order office supplies and USPS stamps by mail (Viking can deliver the same day if you get your order in early enough in the day and if you live close enough to one of their distribution points. The post office delivers the stamps within 2-3 postal days.) I deliver about 50-75% of my indexes by modem because I make it a point to eventually (if not immediately) ask every client about the possibility of doing that. No airbills to complete, no two-wheeled cornering to the Fedex offfice, etc. Correspondence takes just a few minutes because all client's names and addresses are stored as glossaries in my word processor and, with cutting/pasting from old delivery letters, those can be cranked out in just two-three minutes. Though, I do agree that there is a hard core of overhead that just can't be reduced. > > >AND ... you'd have to command that per page rate, which is also not a >beginner's rate. You can expect lower than that -- maybe $2 to $2.50 per >page at first, and will have to fight to get it up there. At that per page >rate, earnings are commensurately less. AND ... you have to be able to keep >up that pace, which admittedly is not easy. Now, this is a real "biggie" with me, the concept of "beginner's rates". Is a new indexer worth his or her salt going to turn in a beginner's index to the client? Not hardly. And if the indexer is delivering a professional product, they should be paid professional rates, not "beginner's rates". Does the new doctor starting out in private practice charge only $10/visit? No, new doctors have the chutzpah to present themselves as professionals and charge accordingly. New indexers should do the same. The "romance" of indexing aside, we're in business (just as doctors are) and we deliver a product as well as a service. We are not salaried employees working in a structured pay-scale environment where you have to start out at the bottom. Just as you'd expect to pay more in a French restaurant (regardless of when they hung out their shingle) than in a greasy spoon, indexers delivering professional-grade indexes should not charge greasy spoon prices. Create a whiz-bang sample index to send to prospective clients and prepare yourself to "walk the walk" of a pro by immersing yourself in learning everything you can about indexing and publishing in general. Then name a decent rate when they bring up the subject, not before. (One can always negotiate down if necessary.) You don't get what you don't ask for. A lot of it has to do with "perceived value". If you start out by asking a bargain-basement rate, your potential client will perceive you as a bargain-basement indexer, at least unconsciously. Yes, it takes a lot of self-confidence to pull this off and it works best when you receive clients through referrals (and a resume isn't asked for), but even when you're marketing, don't present yourself as a "beginning indexer" unless asked specifically about your experience. (Offer to send your stellar sample index before they get a chance to ask for a resume and they may not think of asking for one. It worked for me. YMMV) Don't even think of yourself as a "beginning indexer", don't even go there. IMHO, $2 to $2.50/page is inadequate for anyone, though some scholarly presses will pay that to any indexer, no matter how experienced. I asked for and got far more than that on my very first indexing project. (I admit that the client gasped, but then agreed to pay it when I asked if that was outside of their budget. ;-D) It can be done with "attitude" and a killer sample index proving you're worth your stated fees. Then give your new client much more than they expect and they'll consider you a bargain. (We ARE talking quality and superior service here, not ripping off clients or deceiving them. Go that extra mile for them.) "Beginner's rates" hold down the rates for all of us in the profession and the new indexer who asks for them will remain behind the curve for a long time. Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 11:32:31 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MarlaABerg@aol.com Subject: thank you from potential indexer ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Thanks to those of you that responded to my query about earnings for a new indexer. I received many responses, and I found the information to be a tremendous help. I am impressed by the forthcoming and welcoming nature of indexers as a group! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 11:32:42 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mrowland@aol.com Subject: Re: Spell Checking ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In a message dated 96-02-19 10:09:25 EST, sconroy@slonet.org (Sonsie Conroy) writes: >I'd like to use a stand-alone spell checker with Macrex BEFORE I import an index file into WP. Does anybody else do this? If so, what's a good one to try out? It must be "editable"--I have to be able to add words to the lists myself. And it must be reasonably easy to operate.< Any suggestions? Sonsie-- The way I deal with spellchecking and Macrex is to import the file into Wordperfect and print out a copy of the index. When I do the spell check, I mark the changes on the printout, then go back into Macrex and make the changes there. For the final index copy, I just make another, revised WordPerfect file. It is not an ideal system, but it keeps the Macrex file up to date. I'd like to see a spellchecking program within Macrex. Marilyn Rowland Indexing and Writing Cape Cod, MA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 11:32:52 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@aol.com Subject: Re: earnings for new indexer ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Marla, et al. There was an error in my previous posting. At the rate of 10 pages/hr and $3/page, you'd work 400 pages per WEEK in 40 hours (not 400 pages per MONTH, as I wrote), and you'd earn $1,200 per WEEK, not per MONTH. That's how I arrived at the hypothetical maximum of almost $50,000/year. Janet ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 11:33:03 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nan Badgett <76400.3351@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: sorting in Cindex ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- You can certainly force Cindex to sort your subheads chonologically (see pp. 141-143 of your manual). I'm not sure that you can -- or that you would want to -- mix indented and run-in style in the same index. Indexes are usually formatted one way or the other. Good luck, Nan Badgett Word-a-bil-i-ty ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 15:20:38 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: earnings for new indexer ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I confirm everything about not marking pages and want to point out that the process can also work in Cindex and (I presume) other dedicated software packages. In Cindex, I can check early entries (often too detailed) though an no modifier command. Otherwise, I often check out the entries for a given page through a search for the page number ('course for "5" one could get 5, 65, 135, and so on). I find that entering entries and editing are much more efficient without marking pages. The search speed of my computer with Cindex is much faster than looking for my markings on a page. I try to do simple, general editing as I work. A command allows me to update and combine terms. This process results in a ready-to-edit index that is much smaller than I had when I just followed page marking. There are pluses and minuses for both methods. Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@powergrid.electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com http://www.electriciti.com:80/~prider/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 15:20:49 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Macrex@aol.com Subject: Re: Spell Checking ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Sonsie (and anyone else who may be interested): You don't need another dicitonary -- you already have one which works quite well with Macrex! I'm going to quote from the Macrex FAQ sheet: "Omitting a spell checker from [Macrex] saves you money, reduces space requirements, and allows you to work more efficiently. Macrex is designed to facilitate the use of the spell checker which is built into all word processing programs. "This permits the indexer who does other work, such as editing, proof-reading or abstracting, to use the same dictionaries for each subject. Additionally, if your field of speialty requires supplemental medical, legal or other dictionaires, you need buy only one set." As suggested on page 11-2, just spell check the MBK file, delete the index (using DELDEX), open a NEW index and then read in the MBK file. (I normally suggest using Read and Correct from the Utility menu just in case an error was introduced during the spell checking.) Hope this helps. Gale Rhoades Director Macrex Sales & Support Office ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 15:20:58 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: earnings for new indexer In-Reply-To: <199602201638.IAA23714@biggulp.callamer.com> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > IMHO, $2 to $2.50/page is inadequate for anyone, though some scholarly > presses will pay that to any indexer, no matter how experienced. I asked for > and got far more than that on my very first indexing project. (I admit that > the client gasped, but then agreed to pay it when I asked if that was outside > of their budget. ;-D) It can be done with "attitude" and a killer sample > index proving you're worth your stated fees. Then give your new client much > more than they expect and they'll consider you a bargain. (We ARE talking > quality and superior service here, not ripping off clients or deceiving them. > Go that extra mile for them.) "Beginner's rates" hold down the rates for all > of us in the profession and the new indexer who asks for them will remain > behind the curve for a long time. on this subject> > > Lynn Moncrief > TECHindex & Docs Hooray for you, Lynn, for laying it on the line. If more of us adopted that attitude (beginner or not), the "standard" per-page rate would get up out of the basement. I started indexing during the Dark Ages , and my first per-page rate was $1, believe it or not. I'm not as good and aggressive about raising it as I should be, but I will no longer work for peanuts no matter how desperate I am. $3 a page is my absolute minimum, and I've found most publishers will pay this without a whimper. Of course, I work mostly for large operations and not the three-books-a-year-out-of-the-basement places. Thanks again for the rant. I think we all needed to hear that. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 15:21:09 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: TWitten@aol.com Subject: Marking Page Proofs ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Hi, everyone, Lynn wrote of indexing directly from page proofs without first marking them. That sounds interesting from a new indexer's point of view (I've been working about four months and am on my eighth index). I feel like I'm slow and am eager to get ideas on increasing my output. But how does one go back and check for accuracy without marking the proofs? I usually check *every* page number from a page number sort as one of the last tasks before pulling the index into Word. Wouldn't you have to spend alot of time searching for the end of page ranges, concepts, well--just about everything? I index history and women's studies books, and the complexity of the subjects can be thickly interwoven. Would this method work for this type of material? Thanks in advance for any thoughts, Trish Wittenstein ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 15:21:22 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charles Anderson Subject: Re: thank you from potential indexer In-Reply-To: <9602201640.AA59025@rs6a.wln.com> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- As a professional indexer since 1972, whose first indexing job paid $4.00/hour (from the American Library Association of all places) I've been reading the various postings regarding income with some interest. My only problem with the various estimates of rates is that I have always found the actual work so variable from index to index. $3.00 per page would be nice for an index with an average of 5 entries per page, and slave labor for some indexes with 20 entries per page - unless they were all name entries and took only seconds to create. I got very burned once by quoting per page and finding later that the full source material needed 30-40 entries on a number of pages (a database of business journals). So when I am quoting, I always try to get some sample proofs to get an idea of the depth of indexing required. Then I translate that to the dollar amount *per hour of work* I expect to make, add in various overhead costs, and arrive at an estimate for the whole job. I also use a computer program I wrote (and distributed some years ago as shareware) which tracks my indexing time and calculates an invoice based on these factors. I guess I've gotten a bit spoiled, though, because as most pros find after working for the same editors for years, it's nice not to be asked for estimates because the editors know you will give them a fair rate. Last point - the big thing is not beginning or pro, or this or that hourly rate - it's building that base of editors who will call on you - and that does take a lot of time IMHO. Charles Anderson canderso@wln.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 10:07:02 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JanCW@aol.com Subject: Re: marking pages ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I mark pages, but only with a highlighter swiping through the occasional word or phrase I want to pick up - I almost never write out what I am going to enter later on the keyboard. But I find the color swatches help me figure out what I thought was important at the time I read it, and I will often take the time to mark how long a discussion goes on, so that I don't have to page through later and see. Those are easy marks, a / mark for this page only, a + for going on to the next page, a number for long discussions. If you do the color marks while you are reading, it takes no time at all. With my handwriting, it would be horrific to write-out entries. I would spend more time trying to read what I wrote than I would just indexing! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 10:07:12 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: REvans4@aol.com Subject: Re: Marking Page Proofs ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In a message dated 96-02-20 15:24:05 EST, you write: >Lynn wrote of indexing directly from page proofs without first marking them Lynn: Do you mean that you don't even highlight the topics on the page? I know some people who effectively write the index entries in the margins then transfer them to their indexing program, and I agree that that takes too much time, but can you really skip even highlighting the areas of interest? I have tried this under slightly different circumstances -- I had done a book in first draft and was checking page numbers against the second draft. I had a page-sequence sort in CINDEX and was making a page-by-page comparison against the second draft. The first draft was highlighted and the second draft was not and I was going nuts trying to find the topics on the page of the second draft. I also find it essential to highlight topics so that on subsequent readings I can identify things I might have missed earlier. Dick Evans ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 10:07:24 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: maryann@mnrosdp.revisor.leg.state.mn.us Subject: Twin Cities chapter of ASI, March meeting ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- The Twin Cities chapter of the American Society of Indexers will hold a meeting on Saturday, March 9, from 1:00 to 3:00 p.m. in the large meeting room of the Roseville Library, Roseville, MN. Chapter chair Maryann Corbett will give a lecture-cum-discussion entitled "Charge! An Inquiry into the Rates and Earnings of Indexers." It will be a review and digest of all the available information about salaries and income of indexers of every stripe. Come with your curiosity and your stories and your business cards. New and prospective indexers are especially welcome. For directions to the library, call Maryann at 612-297-2952 day, 612-645-5985 evening. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 10:07:47 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: Re: earnings for new indexer ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I have to stop the "brain-burning" (I call it "mind-frying") indexing for a moment to second all that Lynn said about beginner's vs. professional rates. I have never heard anyone say it better, and if this is Lynn's semi-annual sermon on the subject, I am very glad. We need to hear this every so often. Elinor ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 10:07:55 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@aol.com Subject: Re: Marking Page Proofs ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In a message dated 96-02-20 15:23:59 EST, you write: >Lynn wrote of indexing directly from page proofs without first marking them. > That sounds interesting from a new indexer's point of view (I've been >working about four months and am on my eighth index). I feel like I'm slow >and am eager to get ideas on increasing my output. But how does one go back >and check for accuracy without marking the proofs? Trish, I check for accuracy as I make my entries, not after creating the entire index. (This is especially important when constanly creating entries like 10-Methoxy-O-demethyltsilanine or worse in the index I'm working on at the moment.) It apparently works pretty well because, when I have to embed an index created from a page-order sort, I very rarely find an incorrect page number while embedding. The following techniques may work in improving accuracy: a) Before I start indexing, I have my husband go through the entire book and mark all page ranges for heading levels and I merely type in the page ranges he gives. He's even more anal about things than I am and I have yet to find an error on his part. (Whoops, can we use that word now in the post-Telecommunications Act era?) This works best in extensively subheaded material. Of course I have to create some page ranges on my own, but his marking the page ranges helps enormously. b) When entering locators for entries on a single page, I type in the first occurence, then use the F9 key in Macrex for subsequent entries on the same page. (Cindex may have a similar feature for repeating page numbers.) This cuts down on typos as long as the first instance of a page number is correct. However, you need to be extremely careful with this feature, at least with how it operates in Macrex. If the entry you've just repeated a page number for is identical to an earlier entry (resulting in merely an addition of a new page number), all of the previous page numbers in that entry are included in subsequent uses of the F9 key. Often you don't want this. In fact, I hardly ever want that to happen! So always look at the screen when using the F9 key. (I look at the screen all the time anyway when typing in page numbers.) c) If, for some reason, I doubt the accuracy of a page number while scrolling through the index, I tell Macrex to display all of the entries for a given page. This can save you from paging back through the proofs if you are extremely familiar with your index, especially if it's a double-posted entry. (I know that sounds weird, but I'm talking about the intense familiarity resulting from constantly running through it while editing on the fly.) Just as an aside, I use a Microsoft keyboard. It's very hard to get used to at first, but wonderful once you finally do. The split in the keyboard between the numbers 6 and 7 has totally eliminated the typos I used to make with those two numbers (which was the source of most of my locator typos). Now I always find myself typing ` for the number 1, but at least Macrex will refuse to accept a page number with that character in it. ;-D Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 10:08:05 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Simon Cauchi Subject: Re: sorting in Cindex ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Nan Badgett wrote: > I'm not sure that you can -- or that you would want to -- mix indented and >run-in style in the same index. Indexes are usually formatted one way or the >other. I know of indexes -- including one of my own -- where the style is run-in except for one long and complicated entry which is indented. Although one wouldn't usually do this, there are occasions when it is appropriate, and indexing software should provide for the possibility. From Simon Cauchi, 13 Riverview Terrace, Hamilton 2001, New Zealand. Telephone and facsimile: +64 7 854 9229. Email: cauchi@wave.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 10:08:13 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Simon Cauchi Subject: Indexing software for the Mac ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- At the AusSI indexing conference last year there was a demonstration of CINDEX, but the promised demonstration of a Mac version was cancelled. Does anyone know if CINDEX is to become available in a Mac version? If not, what is the best alternative indexing software for the Mac? Any advice much appreciated. From Simon Cauchi, 13 Riverview Terrace, Hamilton 2001, New Zealand. Telephone and facsimile: +64 7 854 9229. Email: cauchi@wave.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 10:08:23 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Larry Harrison Subject: Re: earnings for new indexer ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Might I plug the ASI Web page at http://www.well.com/user/asi/ which contains an extremely detailed yet lucid discussion of rates and bidding jobs? Larry Harrison (larryh@millcomm.com) 507/280-0049 Freelance book indexing Rochester, Minnesota ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 10:08:41 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "A. Wanczura" Subject: Re: earnings for new indexer In-Reply-To: <199602201638.IAA22159@freenet.vancouver.bc.ca> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Hello, all, I've been lurking on this list for a month. I've never indexed a book, though I've certainly read books that could have used better indexes. :) On Tue, 20 Feb 1996 Wildefire@aol.com wrote: > Not long after I started indexing, a much more experienced indexer told me > that the secret to cranking more than 10pp/hr is to not mark the proofs. At > first I found it extremely difficult because I had to learn yet another way > of indexing, but now I would find it grueling to mark the pages by hand, then > keyboard them into Macrex. Instead, I do an intense overscan of the book > first, scanning for scope, indexable terms, etc. This can take a few hours, Wait a sec ... somehow I assumed one would index a book from an electronic copy of the text. Does anyone do this and if so what are the benefits/difficulties? > Create a whiz-bang sample index to send to prospective clients and prepare > yourself to "walk the walk" of a pro by immersing yourself in learning > everything you can about indexing and publishing in general. Then name a So you'd recommend selecting an existing book? (I have one I like that UNFORTUNATELY lacks an index to anything but section titles.) > specifically about your experience. (Offer to send your stellar sample index > before they get a chance to ask for a resume and they may not think of asking > for one. It worked for me. YMMV) Don't even think of yourself as a "beginning > indexer", don't even go there. Thanks for all the advice. I am looking for my first indexing job ... and wondering if I"m qualified ... I suppose I would be in specific subject areas - ESL, for example ... A question for indexers on this list: do you have an educational background in topics you index or are more of you simply indexing topics you love and have personal experience and interest in? Angela wanczura@freenet.vancouver.bc.ca Vancouver Co-op Radio at http://freenet.vancouver.bc.ca/cfro/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 10:09:15 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jimmy_Kaml@unison.com Organization: Unison Software Subject: Where do I find Cindex?? ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Subject: Time:8:12 AM Where do I find Cindex?? Date:2/21/96 All, I am a tech writer for a small software company and indexing is one of those tasks which gives me trouble. (I use Frame on a Mac.) I have heard mention of a product called Cindex on this discussion group. Could someone provide me with info (address/webpage) for the manufacturer of Cindex. Thanks... Jimmy Kaml Technical Writer Unison Software jimmy_kaml@unison.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 10:50:37 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: Marking Page Proofs ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- At 10:07 AM 2/21/96 ECT, you wrote: >----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >In a message dated 96-02-20 15:23:59 EST, Lynn wrote: > >Just as an aside, I use a Microsoft keyboard. It's very hard to get used to >at first, but wonderful once you finally do. The split in the keyboard >between the numbers 6 and 7 has totally eliminated the typos I used to make >with those two numbers (which was the source of most of my locator typos). >Now I always find myself typing ` for the number 1, but at least Macrex will >refuse to accept a page number with that character in it. ;-D > She must mean the "wavy" ergonomic MS keyboard. I agree--it's great. There are similar models in same price range by other makers. Ruins me when switching to another keyboard. Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@powergrid.electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com http://www.electriciti.com:80/~prider/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 10:50:47 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Subject: FAQ--HyperIndex added to software, Society of Indexers address , correction ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- INDEX-L FAQ Contents: 1. Index-l procedures 2. Archives 3. Books on indexing 4. What has been written about automatic indexing? 5. What software do indexers use? 6. Courses or training for indexers (outside of library schools)? 7. Professional societies/organizations for indexers? 8. Network connections 9. Internet Sites 10.Winners of the ASI/H.W. Wilson Company Award for Indexing 1. INDEX-L PROCEDURES There are three addresses you need to use for interaction with index-l: To take part in a discussion or send a message to the list (a.k.a. group or subscribers), address your e-mail to index-l@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu To send a message directly to the moderator (a.k.a. Charlotte), address your e-mail to cskuster@library.lib.binghamton.edu or Skuster@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu To send a command to the listserv, address your e-mail to listserv@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu. As subscribers, you are able to send commands to the listserv to see the archives, see a list of subscribers, stop your mail for a while, or a number of other options. To get a list of listserv commands and what they do, send the following message to the listserv: INFO REFCARD Do not sign your name or put anything else in the message. 2. ARCHIVES There are two ways to look at the archives: ---Received directly from the listserv@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu Send the following message to the listserv: index index-l. You will receive a list of available archives. When you decide what you would like to see, send the following message to the listserv: get log9512a (for the first week in December,for example) ---On the library gopher at Georgia Southern University: Messages are stored here from the start of the listserv in 1992 through the most recent preceding month. A WAIS searching program is available to search through all years at once or through a selected year. The GSU gopher is located through a gopher client at gopher.gasou.edu or by telnet to gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu. public login (INFO), and then look for the gopher program on the the main information services menu. When you reach the gopher take this directory path: /Georgia Southern University/Henderson Library/Other Organizations/Index-L 3. BOOKS ON INDEXING? Bonura, L. The Art of Indexing. Wiley, 1994 Knight, G. N. Indexing, The Art Of. Allen & Unwin, 1979. Lancaster, F. W. Indexing and Abstracting in Theory and Practice. U of Illinois Press, 1991. Lancaster, F. W. Vocabulary Control for Information Retrieval, 2nd ed. Information resources Press, 1986 Mulvany, Nancy C. Indexing Books, University of Chicago Press, 1994. Wellisch, H. Indexing and Abstracting, an International Bibliography ABC-Clio, 1980. Wellisch, H. Indexing from A to Z. H. W. Wilson, 1991. 4. WHAT HAS BEEN WRITTEN ABOUT AUTOMATIC INDEXING? Books: Grefenstette, G. Explorations in Automatic Thesaurus Discovery, Kluwer, 1994 Salton and McGill Introduction to Modern Information Retrieval Salton, Automatic Text Processing Van Rijsbergen Information Retrieval Jones, Karen Spark Information Retrieval Experiment Papers: Bell, C. and Jones, K. "Back-of-the-book Indexing: A Case for the Application of Artificial Intelligence", Informatics 5, ASLIB Pub., pp. 155-161, 1979 Bennion, B. "Performance Testing of a Book and its Index as an Information Retrieval System", JASIS, pp. 265-270, July 1970 Borko, H. "Experiments in Book Indexing by Computer" Information Storage and Retrieval, 6:5)16, 1970 Dillon, M. and McDonald, J. "Fully Automatic Book Indexing" Journal of Documentation 39(1):135-154, 1983 Dion, M. Thesaurus-Based Automatic Book Indexing", Information Processing and Management, 81(4):167-178, 1982 Salton, G. "Syntactic Approaches to Automatic Book Indexing", Proceedings of the 26th ACL, pp. 204-210, 1988 5. WHAT SOFTWARE DO INDEXERS USE? FOR PCS (DOS-BASED) IN>SORT Kensa Software P.O. Box 4415 Northbrook, IL 60065 (708) 559-0297 Macrex Bayside Indexing Service P.O. Box 3051 Daly City, CA 95015-0051 (415) 756-0821 FAX: (415) 757-1567 Macrex@aol.com Cindex Indexing Research Box 18609 Rochester, New (716) 461-5530 FAX: (716) 442-3924 ircindex@aol.com FOR MACS HyperIndex Andre De Tienne 7590 Harcourt Road #106 Indianapolis, IN 46260 (317) 274-2033 adetienn@indycms.iupui.edu See additional software listings on the ASI Web page: http://www.well.com/user/asi 6. COURSES OR TRAINING FOR INDEXERS (OUTSIDE OF LIBRARY SCHOOLS)? Graduate School of the USDA Correspondence Programs, Ag Box 9911 Room 1114, South Agriculture Building 14th St. and Independence Ave. SW Washington, DC 20250 (202) 720-7123 TDD: (202) 690-1516 Tuition: (includes all materials) $281,00--Basic Indexing (beginning) $275.00--Applied Indexing (more advanced) 7. PROFESSIONAL SOCIETIES/ORGANIZATIONS FOR INDEXERS? (this question was not actually asked..but here's the answer anyway) American Society of Indexers (ASI) P.O. Box 48267 Seattle, WA 98148-0267 (206) 241-9196 FAX: 206) 727-6430 E-MAIL: asi@well.com E-Mail: asi@well.com WWW location:www.well.com/user/asi/ Indexing and Abstracting Society of Canada Box 744 Station F Toronto Ontario Canada M4Y 2N6 National Federation of Abstracting and Information Services (NFAIS) 1518 Walnut Street Suite 307 Philadelphia PA 19102-3403 (215) 893-1561 FAX: (215) 893-1564 E-MAIL: nfais@hslc.org Society of Indexers 38 Rochester Road London NW1 9JJ England Phone: (UK) 0171-916-7809 (answerphone only) Australian Society of Indexers (AusSI) GPO Box 1251L, Melbourne Victoria 3001, Australia E-MAIL:mindexer@interconnect.com.au WWW location: http://godzilla.zeta.org.au/~aussi 8. NETWORK CONNECTIONS America Online (800) 227-6364 CompuServe (800) 848-8199 Delphi (800) 495-4005 GEnie (800) 638-9636 The Well (415) 332-4335 Real/Time Communications (512) 459-4391 See also. Maren, M. "The Age of E-Mail. Home Office Computing, December, 1993, 63-70. Tetzeli, R. "Is Going On-line Worth the Money?" FORTUNE 129(12):104-105, 108. June 13, 1994. 9. Internet Sites Gopher Index-L Archives gopher eagle1.cc.gasou.edu World Wide Web American Society of Indexers http://www.well.com/user/asi Australian Society of Indexers http://godzilla.zeta.org.au/~aussi Indexing Conference on the Well http://www.well.com/user/nmulvany/index.htm 10. WINNERS OF THE ASI/H.W. WILSON COMPANY AWARD FOR INDEXING 1979--Hans H. Wellisch, author and indexer; John Wiley, publisher: The Conversion of Scripts: Its Nature, History and Utilization 1980--Linda I. Solow, indexer; M.I.T. Press, publisher: Beyond Orpheus:Studies in Musical Structures. 1981--Delight Ansley, indexer; Random House Publisher: Cosmos by Carl Sagan, 1982--Catherine Fix, indexer; Wm. Saunders Company, publisher: Diagnosis of Bone and Joint Disorders. 1983--Award not given. 1984--Trish Yancey, indexer; Information Handling Services, publisher: Index and Directory of U.S. Industry Standards 1985--Sydney W. Cohen, indexer; Random House, publisher: The Experts Speak by Cerf and Navasky. 1986--Marjorie Hyslop, indexer; American Society for Metals, publisher: Metals Handbook. 1987--Award not given. 1988--Jeanne Moody, indexer; National Wildlife Institute, publisher: Raptor Management Techniques. 1989--Philip James, indexer; Butterworths, publisher: Medicine for the Practicing Physician, 2nd ed.. 1990--Marcia Carlson, indexer; Cornell University Press, publisher: Strategic Nuclear Arms & Arms Control Debates. 1991--Daniels, Nancy L., indexer; Van Nostrand Reinhold, publisher:Beyond Public Architecture: Strategies for Design Evaluation. 1992--Johnson, Rachel Jo., indexer; Matthew Bender, publisher: American Law of Real Property. 1993--Award not given. 1994--Deminna, Patricia, indexer; U. of California, publisher: Carnal Israel: Reading Sex in Talmudic Culture by Daniel Boyarin 1995--White, Martin L., indexer; University of Chicago Press, publisher; The Promise of Pragmatism: Modernism and the Crisis of Knowledge and Authority. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 13:12:14 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joanne Clendenen Subject: Re: earnings for new indexer ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- ---------- ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Thanks for all the advice. I am looking for my first indexing job ... and wondering if I"m qualified ... I suppose I would be in specific subject areas - ESL, for example ... A question for indexers on this list: do you have an educational background in topics you index or are more of you simply indexing topics you love and have personal experience and interest in? Angela It normally doesn't require a PhD to index a topic, although some scientific and technical subjects (like medical) require some knowledge of terminology. But you'll have to ask others on that point. I'm a proud generalist with a BA in linguistics. Most of my books have been history, biography and psychology. I'm well read in many liberal arts subjects, and I can do an excellent index as long as the book isn't too technical or specialized. I love the variety of subjects, and I even do business (ugh) books for one client. Actually, some of them have been interesting. The main problem is having the time to continue reading for pleasure or professional development when you're busy indexing (and housecleaning, caring for children and husband, etc). Don't restrict yourself too much when marketing. I just turn down stuff (like the COBOL programming book) that I know I can't handle. Good luck. Joanne Clendenen Houston, TX ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 13:14:33 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charles Anderson Subject: Indexing Rates ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- As a professional indexer since 1972, whose first indexing job paid $4.00/hour (from the American Library Association of all places) I've been reading the various postings regarding income with some interest. My only problem with the various estimates of rates is that I have always found the actual work so variable from index to index. $3.00 per page would be nice for an index with an average of 5 entries per page, and slave labor for some indexes with 20 entries per page - unless they were all name entries and took only seconds to create. I got very burned once by quoting per page and finding later that the full source material needed 30-40 entries on a number of pages (a database of business journals). So when I am quoting, I always try to get some sample proofs to get an idea of the depth of indexing required. Then I translate that to the dollar amount *per hour of work* I expect to make, add in various overhead costs, and arrive at an estimate for the whole job. I also use a computer program I wrote (and distributed some years ago as shareware) which tracks my indexing time and calculates an invoice based on these factors. I guess I've gotten a bit spoiled, though, because as most pros find after working for the same editors for years, it's nice not to be asked for estimates because the editors know you will give them a fair rate. Last point - the big thing is not beginning or pro, or this or that hourly rate - it's building that base of editors who will call on you - and that does take a lot of time IMHO. Charles Anderson canderso@wln.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 13:14:46 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Sloan Subject: Web index ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I've been working on the Australian group's Web Index contest and have a question regarding index formats on the web. Now I've seen pages with links listed alphabetically and have seen some fairly general indexing for article archives and such. So far the project I'm working on will look like a back of the book index. As yet I have not seen this format on the Web. Has anyone here seen an index displayed this way on the Web? Should I try another format? I realize there hasn't been much activity here lately. I assume that is because of the storms. I hope Index-L has not folded. Please let me know if this needs to be sent elsewhere. Thank you. Linda Sloan indexer@ix.netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 13:14:57 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MariaYoung@aol.com Subject: Re: Where do I find Cindex?? ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- CINDEX (and information regarding CINDEX) is available from: Indexing Research 100 Allens Creek Road Rochester, NY 14618 Phone: 716/461-5530 Fax: 716/442-3924 email (information): IRCINDEX@aol.com email (support): Ask Cindex@aol.com