From: SMTP%"LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu" 2-MAR-1996 09:19:04.37 To: CIRJA02 CC: Subj: File: "INDEX-L LOG9602D" Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 08:37:12 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9602D" To: CIRJA02@GSVMS1.CC.GASOU.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 09:20:19 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Spell Checking In-Reply-To: <199602202021.MAA31136@biggulp.callamer.com> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Gale, thanks for the tip. I'll give it a try. I think I would STILL like a standalone dictionary that could check anything in DOS (or in Windows, but that would have to be a separate software package I suppose). It doesn't have to be attached to Macrex; In fact, I think at this point I'd prefer that it not be--so I could use it on any file I might be working on. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 09:20:27 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@aol.com Subject: Re: Marking Page Proofs ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In a message dated 96-02-21 10:13:43 EST, you write: >Lynn: > >Do you mean that you don't even highlight the topics on the page? I know >some people who effectively write the index entries in the margins then >transfer them to their indexing program, and I agree that that takes too much >time, but can you really skip even highlighting the areas of interest? Dick, No, I don't highlight the topics on the page. To be honest, I missed more things when I used to highlight and mark up the proofs than I do with this method. One can miss highlighting things too. ;-D While indexing, I'm reading and re-reading(!) the text in an even more concentrated manner--line by line, paragraph by paragraph. With each paragraph or small chunk of paragraphs, I ask myself what is the "aboutness" of this passage (to quote you from one of your own posts a few months ago ;-D) and develop my entries from each conceptual section before moving on. As soon as I identify something indexable, it immediately goes into Macrex along with any permutations of it. Often, before leaving a page or passage, I'll read it yet again to make sure I didn't miss anything. In effect, I've read the book several times by the time I finish with it. If I stop indexing in the middle of a page (the phone rings or something), I bring up all of the entries for the page in Macrex's group mode to find where I left off or simply do it as a check on myself. One of the things that got me into this extremely close reading mode was that early in my indexing career, I found myself having to index very difficult technical material about which I didn't have a clue at the time which forced me to read and reread to gain enough understanding to even index the material. So now it's a habit. (And I still index a lot of material that is very difficult, reinforcing the habit constantly.) Also important to this is locking everything I read into a constantly evolving intellectual superstructure that will be reflected in the index to some degree. If there's a gap in my superstructure, I look up the information or call the client. IMHO, what tends to be missed or skipped in indexing is what is not understood by the indexer. Apparently it works for me because clients have given me positive feedback about the exhaustiveness of my indexes (when space is not a consideration). Actually, the main tendency I find myself fighting against in using this method is overindexing (though I clean this up as I go along and in the final edits). > > >I also find it essential to highlight topics so that on subsequent readings I >can identify things I might have missed earlier. Occasionally I miss things too, but usually it's because of an error in judgement on my part as to whether something was important enough to index. When I receive books in chunks and have no idea of what's to come, I sometimes find in later chapters that I should have been indexing a concept that is now being explained in great depth and often from another aspect--the earlier mentions not having been so trivial after all. This also happens when I don't have a clue about the subject I'm indexing, but working with a stack of reference books and using online resources helps enormously with that. If memory of earlier mentions doesn't alert me that I missed something, often a structural or conceptual "hole" in the index does. This is hard to explain, but I think you know what I mean. The index just doesn't hang together right and the concepts don't interlace as neatly as they should because a connecting concept is missing or there's a severe assymetry. When that happens, I do one of two things. I turn on Macrex's group mode to bring up entries that I know are related to the concept that I missed. (Usually I remember the earlier context in which something was mentioned.) From that, I can identify the page numbers of the earlier discussions. If that doesn't work, I ask my long-suffering husband to go back through the proofs and highlight all instances of a particular term--often only to find that I was right the first time in skipping something. Another technique I've used as a last resort is cross-referencing to topics containing the context of the missed item and appropriately restructuring the index. But this has to be done very judiciously without doing a disservice to the reader in the process or distorting the symmetry of the index. Yet another way of catching missed items that represent singular entities in a group (e.g., individual function names in a specific class; specific alkaloids in the spermostrychnine group, etc.) is when the items are listed in a table or other grouping or summarizing device used by the author. I use these devices quite extensively in indexing to check the completeness of my indexing and usually I can readily find the earlier discussion if I missed something. Lastly, while editing (extensively using Macrex's group mode again), I check the consistency of my double-posting. Because I'm constantly editing and restructuring as I index, it doesn't become a nightmare in the final edit. The key (for me) to all of this is to constantly move through the index as it's forming while I work and very intense reading of the text, wrestling everything into an intellectual, hierarchical superstructure in the process. Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 09:20:37 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@aol.com Subject: Re: earnings for new indexer ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In a message dated 96-02-21 10:14:28 EST, Angela wrote: >> Not long after I started indexing, a much more experienced indexer told me >> that the secret to cranking more than 10pp/hr is to not mark the proofs. At >> first I found it extremely difficult because I had to learn yet another way >> of indexing, but now I would find it grueling to mark the pages by hand, >then >> keyboard them into Macrex. Instead, I do an intense overscan of the book >> first, scanning for scope, indexable terms, etc. This can take a few hours, > > Wait a sec ... somehow I assumed one would index a book from an >electronic copy of the text. Does anyone do this and if so what are the >benefits/difficulties? Angela, The only time I receive an electronic copy of a text is when I actually have to embed index entries into the files themselves. Even then, I insist on receiving a hard copy because it is much easier to read from a sheet of paper than from the screen (even though one is also reading what's on the screen when embedding). The only advantages, IMHO, of working with electronic files are when the client needs to frequently update the text. (We had a thread here about two months ago about embedded indexing pros and cons, titled Indexing Live Documents.) You can also electronically search for earlier instances of a term if you missed it while indexing. The disadvantages include: a) index quality if not indexing in dedicated indexing software before embedding; b) the potential for inadvertantly changing something in the text while embedding; c) hard disk space consumed (I drew the line when a client wanted to send me 60Megabytes of files!); d) clients sending Mac formatted disks when you have a PC (which happened most recently in December); e) additional administrative overhead when delivering the embedded files due to compressing and copying oodles of files (one client sent me a book consisting of at least 60 files!); f) ensuring that you and the client are using the same versions of file compression software which is why my machine is populated with umpteen versions of compression software; g) not having the same fonts as the client which causes your software to remap the entire book... Need I go on? > >> Create a whiz-bang sample index to send to prospective clients and prepare >> yourself to "walk the walk" of a pro by immersing yourself in learning >> everything you can about indexing and publishing in general. Then name a > > So you'd recommend selecting an existing book? (I have one I like >that UNFORTUNATELY lacks an index to anything but section titles.) I strongly recommend it!! Aside from the fact that it gives you an opportunity to create a real index to a real book for marketing purposes, it is also a very rewarding learning experience if you craft, recraft, refine and polish your sample index to perfection. > Thanks for all the advice. I am looking for my first indexing job >... and wondering if I"m qualified ... I suppose I would be in specific >subject areas - ESL, for example ... A question for indexers on this >list: do you have an educational background in topics you index or are >more of you simply indexing topics you love and have personal experience >and interest in? While it greatly helps to have a background in a specific subject area, financial survival can dictate indexing subjects that you are unfamiliar with. As you become established as an indexer, you may find yourself getting clients by referrals who publish outside of the field of your educational background or what you targetted in your marketing efforts. Personally my most solid educational background is in naval electronics, but I get books specifically on naval electronics very rarely. In indexing other electronics books, it's certainly helped me to spot errors in the texts, exactly what is critical for a technician to retrieve from the text, etc. I told a new client last summer that I didn't know much about chemistry, so every single book they've sent since then has a ton of chemistry in it, to the point where the current book I'm doing for them is solid chemistry. (Go figure.) One of the exciting things about indexing is that you become conversant in a wide range of new subjects, especially after indexing several books on a particular subject. Not conversant enough to become a practicitioner in the field, but solidly enough to produce good indexes on the subject. Having a good set of reference books and the willingness to do research when necessary helps. I do recommend targetting publishers who publish books in the area of your expertise and interests and making that a prominent feature of your marketing cover letters and phone calls. (Hmmm, I was a literacy tutor a few years ago and the training included ESL, but hadn't even thought of including it in my resume until now. ;-D) These are the cover letters that get responses from publishers that are more enthusiastic than just a "we've placed your resume on file". Also check your personal library. Have you bought a lot of books from a specific publisher? Aside from the fact that it indicates to you that you have a strong interest in that particular publisher's books (and therefore should consider indexing for them), it's also worth mentioning in your phone calls and cover letters (done with finesse, of course). It let's them know that you enjoy reading their material. Good luck!! Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 09:26:49 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JanCW@aol.com Subject: Re: Web index ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In a message dated 96-02-21 14:14:17 EST, you write: > So far the project I'm working on will >look like a back of the book index. As yet I have not seen this format >on the Web. Has anyone here seen an index displayed this way on the >Web? Should I try another format? Part of the problem is the available formats in HTML - for the ASI Home page index, we have been experimenting, and hate most of what we wind up with. It just doesn't look right for some reason, perhaps because the styling available is so limited. So ours looks somewhat booklike, but not as nice as I would like it. The second fun part is to build an easily-updatable index in html, one you can add entries easily to, and re-sort, and still have all the lovely codes format it correctly. I've developed a way of doing that in Excel that gives a card-catalog/keyword-like index, but that's not what we were after. I have not developed a way as yet to get it to come out booklike, with all hot links in place, sorting easily. But it's a process. If you want to know more about what we have tried, contact me offline. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 09:27:05 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary Rasmussen Subject: file transfer ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Hi, I'm new to the board, and have been following topics with great interest. I have a question about transferring index files on the Internet. It would help me greatly to be able to send finished indexes to the publisher via file transfer, but I have been told that the control characters for Cindex print files and/or AAP typeset files do not transfer well. Therefore, the publisher will not accept them and I end up mailing hard copies with a diskette after all. Has anyone had more/better experience with this and how do I do it? Thanks in advance for help and advice. Mary Rasmussen Innovative Order, Inc. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 09:27:15 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey Subject: Re: Spell Checking ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- At 10:07 19/02/96 ECT, Sonsie wrote: >----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >I'd like to use a stand-alone spell checker with Macrex BEFORE I import an >index file into WP. Does anybody else do this? If so, what's a good one to >try out? It must be "editable"--I have to be able to add words to the lists >myself. And it must be reasonably easy to operate. > >Any suggestions? Years ago Borland produced a memory-resident DOS-based spell checker called Lightning (acquired from someone else, I believe) which would check the words on the screen when activated by a hot key; but the user would then have to page down to the next screen and do it all over again. It never caught on, but there may be a few copies around in second-hand shops, etc, if you want to pursue it. Jonathan. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Jermey & Glenda Browne (Blue Mountains Desktop Pty Ltd. - ACN 071 232 016) Blaxland NSW Australia jonathan@magna.com.au http://www.magna.com.au/~jonathan Australian Wildlife in the Cheese Shop: "We had some, but the cat's eaten it." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 16:27:27 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Larry Harrison Subject: Re: Marking Page Proofs ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Pam Rider wrote: >>In a message dated 96-02-20 15:23:59 EST, Lynn wrote: >> > >>Just as an aside, I use a Microsoft keyboard. It's very hard to get used to >>at first, but wonderful once you finally do. The split in the keyboard >>between the numbers 6 and 7 has totally eliminated the typos I used to make >>with those two numbers (which was the source of most of my locator typos). >>Now I always find myself typing ` for the number 1, but at least Macrex will >>refuse to accept a page number with that character in it. ;-D >> >She must mean the "wavy" ergonomic MS keyboard. I agree--it's great. There >are similar models in same price range by other makers. Ruins me when >switching to another keyboard. I have ordered a "wavy" keyboard with a split in the middle for my Macintosh *** believe it or not, I just had to go answer the door and it was the Airborne truck with my package. *** It sure looks weird, but I have high hopes for it's comfort. I have been looking for one for years, but the Apple one has function keys on a separate pad, which would drive me crazy with CINDEX. This is the first all-in-one design I have seen, and it was a bargain. Larry Harrison (larryh@millcomm.com) 507/280-0049 Freelance book indexing Rochester, Minnesota ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 09:28:31 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Subject: I deleted some messages I inadvertently deleted some messages this morning...before I had a chance to read them. If you sent something to index-l after 5pm (EST) yesterday, please resend. Sorry for the inconvenience. Charlotte index-l moderator ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:09:11 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: RAPG@aol.com Subject: Denver Roommate Also ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I'm also looking for a roommate in Denver: woman, non-smoker, fairly early to bed (10/11-ish). I plan to be there Wed. through Sat. nights, leaving on Sun. If y're interested, please e-mail me. Thx, Rebecca Peters ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:09:42 ECT Reply-To: Marjanovic Mirjana Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marjanovic Mirjana Subject: Re: file transfer In-Reply-To: <199602232331.SAA28189@cyclone.ERE.UMontreal.CA> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- On Thu, 22 Feb 1996, Mary Rasmussen wrote: > ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > Hi, > I'm new to the board, and have been following topics with great interest. > I have a question about transferring index files on the Internet. It > would help me greatly to be able to send finished indexes to the publisher > via file transfer, but I have been told that the control characters > for Cindex print files and/or AAP typeset files do not transfer well. > Therefore, the publisher will not accept them and I end up mailing > hard copies with a diskette after all. Has anyone had more/better > experience with this and how do I do it? > Thanks in advance for help and advice. > > Mary Rasmussen > Innovative Order, Inc. > Hi, I'm fresh and new my self, and I'd try to answer to your question: what's wrong with your modem? Can't you send it the usual way, directly to your publisher? Why would the modem reject control characters? As far as you set it up correctly, it couldn't care less to what you are sending (sending in binary mode is the safest way). It would be nice if someone more experienced answers, just to make it clear because I see no problem, but I never tried to send Cindex index. Mirjana Marjanovic marjanom@ere.Umontreal.ca Student, M1 Ecole de Bibliotheconomie et des Sciences de l'information Universite de Montreal Canada Quebec ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:09:52 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Australian Society of Indexers Subject: Aust. Soc. of Indexers Indexing in the Electronic Age Conference, Robertson, NSW 20-21 Apr 1996 ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Australian Society of Indexers Indexing in the Electronic Age a conference for the information industry 20 21 April 1996 Ranelagh House Robertson NSW, via Moss Vale home of the film "Babe" See also: URL: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi/indxelec.htm This conference is directed to all people in the information industry whether they are indexers, editors, publishers, librarians or users. The speakers will be a range of specialists able to provide diverse perspectives, and we are anticipating some interesting debates. broaden your horizons The 'Indexing in the Electronic Age' conference will provide insights into the impact of new technologies on indexers and the information industry. The conference will: bring you up to date on developments in areas such as indexing for multimedia and CD-ROMs, electronic indexing in the publishing industry, the impact of the Internet and automatic indexing help you identify the implications for your own work give you the opportunity to debate the issues and exchange ideas about the conference The 'Indexing in the Electronic Age' conference is being conducted by the ACT Region Branch of the Australian Society of Indexers. The Society's annual Medal Dinner will be hosted by the NSW Branch on the Saturday night. Details of the judging process, and the names of those who have been highly commended and short listed this year will be given at the dinner. when and where The conference is being held from 20 to 21 April 1996 in the small town of Robertson in the picturesque NSW Southern Tablelands at Ranelagh House, a charming old English Manor style building. The large, beautifully landscaped grounds of Ranelagh House offer several pleasant walks, filled with interesting features such as a weir, a craft cottage, roaming deer, peacocks and other birdlife. And for those with the opportunity to explore further, the surrounding district has a great deal in the way of sightseeing and recreational activities. accommodation It is expected that most participants and their partners or guests will wish to stay at Ranelagh House, which is offering an all inclusive package of accommodation and meals. The accommodation is mainly shared rooms and facilities, but there some private rooms which will be allocated in order of registration. transport Robertson is a two-hour drive from Sydney and Canberra. For those coming by train, transport will be provided from Moss Vale, the nearest station. cost and payment The cost is $185 for early registration by 15 March ($195 for late registration). This covers the conference fee, accommodation at Ranelagh House and meals, including the Medal Dinner. The Ranelagh House weekend for accompanying guests, which includes all meals, teas and the Medal Dinner, is $135. Payment by cheque or money order should be made out to the Australian Society of Indexers ACT Region Branch, and forwarded with registration. further information Contact Shirley Campbell, Secretary, ACT Region Branch, Australian Society of Indexers. Address: GPO Box 2069, Canberra ACT 2601 Phone: (06) 234 2225 Fax: (06) 234 2237 E-mail: Shirley.Campbell@Radford.act.edu.au - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - conference program Day One Saturday, 20 April 1996 10.00 11.00 Registration and morning coffee Key Issues 11.00 11.30 The electronic age: key issues for indexers Lynn Farkas, Datascape Information 11.35 12.15 Good and bad electronic indexes Roxanne Missingham, CSIRO Current Initiatives A Multimedia Viewpoint 1.30 2.45 Case study presentations on indexing for multimedia and CD-ROMs, by representatives of organisations which have produced such products Helen Routh, CCH Australia; Lindsay Parker, Scantext; Richard Barber, ACEL; David Horton, Australian Institute of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders Studies Current Initiatives Publishers' Viewpoints 3.15 4.30 Publishers' panel on the role of electronic indexing in their organisations, and the impact on publishers' use of indexers Paul Mullins, AGPS; Helen Routh, CCH Australia; Richard Barber, ACEL; Evan Predavec, Butterworths Current Initiatives An Indexer's Viewpoint 4.35 5.00 Conceptual indexing on CD-ROMs: beyond free-text searching Garry Cousins 5.00 6.00 Informal demonstrations and displays in Conference Exhibition area Conference Dinner 6.30 onwards Awarding the Australian Society of Indexers medal ASI Medal Committee Day Two Sunday, 21 April 1996 Internet and its Impact 9.00 9.40 What contribution can indexing make to the Internet? Tony Barry, Australian National University 9.45 10.15 Indexing the Web: an exercise in hypertext navigation Dwight Walker, Australian Society of Indexers 10.20 10.45 Converting indexed information to the Internet: a case study of a dictionary conversion David Nathan, Australian Institute of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders Studies Automating the Indexing Process 11.15 11.45 Indexing registry and word processed documents Peter Eden, RIMS Australasia 11.50 11.20 Using fuzzy retrieval and relevance ranking in library catalogues Rick Clark, Contec Data Systems 12.25 12.55 Book and document automatic indexing and abstracting 1.00 1.30 Future indexing developments for World 1 Sandra Henderson, National Library of Australia 1.30 1.45 Closing remarks - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - registration form Please detach this form and mail with payment to: ASI Conference GPO Box 2069 Canberra ACT 2601 Cheques or money orders should be made payable to: Australian Society of Indexers, ACT Region Branch Registration options All inclusive (registration, Ranelagh House accommodation, all meals, Medal Dinner) $185.00 Non-attending guest (Ranelagh House accommodation, all meals, Medal Dinner) $135.00 Conference only (registration, Saturday lunch, morning and afternoon teas) $95.00 Medal Dinner (for non-Ranelagh House guests) $35.00 Late registration (after 15 March) add $10 per option I enclose a cheque/money order for $ _________ Accommodation (for Ranelagh House residents only) Do you wish to nominate a delegate to share with? Yes Name ....................................................................... No (conference organisers will arrange) Are you a smoker? Private room (if available) Yes No Yes No Do you need transport between Moss Vale Station and Ranelagh House? Yes Train arrives .................... Departs...................... Delegate details Full name ............................................................................ ..... Address ............................................................................ ....... Ph ..................... Fax .................... E-mail............................. ------- Dwight Walker Webmaster Australian Society of Indexers +61-2-3986726 (h) +61-2-4393750 (w) W-F URL: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:10:04 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: REvans4@aol.com Subject: Targetting publishers (Was :Earnings . . .) ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In a message dated 96-02-23 20:36:26 EST, you write: >I do recommend targetting publishers who publish books in the area of your >expertise This brings up a question that I have been struggling with: How do you find publishers in your area of expertise? Publishers (indeed, all industries in the U.S.) are assigned a Standard Industrial Classification (SIC) code that is supposed to indicate the nature of their business. However, I find the code assignments to be wildly inconsistent. My field is software manuals and my clients are in SIC 27310000. However, if I search a database on SIC 27310000 I also get hits on copy services, yearbook publishers, religious publishers, etc. Unless the name of the business gives a clue, I still can't tell which ones are my targets. I have tried several CD-based phone directories and even spent $300 on a mailing list from a prestigious marketing firm. The results were all the same. (I returned the $300 list.) The only method that has worked is to go to the library or a bookstore and browse the titles in the computer section. Dick Evans ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:10:14 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: REvans4@aol.com Subject: Re: Marking Page Proofs ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In a message dated 96-02-23 20:36:33 EST, you write: >Because I'm constantly editing and >restructuring as I index, it doesn't become a nightmare in the final edit. I wonder if anyone has done a study of indexers' methods? I find it a nightmare to cross post while I'm entering. I find it much easier to wait until all the eintries are in CINDEX then use the FIND feature to group entries for cross posting. I use an object oriented approach that is particulary effective with software books (maybe not so much with other topics) and look for classes of things and indivdual objects in each class. Software classes commonly include things like commands, functions, methods, etc. I create a primary head for each class, secondary heads for each object, and tertiary for tasks associated with each object. For a given command I have an initial (temporary) entry that looks like this: commands FIND canceling case sensitivity forming a group By the end of the book I can have a single primary with several hundred secondaries. This lets me scan the list and ensure that I have gathered prospective cross postings for every command in the system. If I see a secondary with no tertiaries, I know I've overlooked something. WIth a CINDEX FIND, I form a group and begin cross posting to end up with a final version that looks like this: commands FIND FIND command cancelling case sensitivity forming a group canceling a FIND command case sensitivity of FIND command groups, forming with FIND If I tried to do all this during initial entry, I would never be sure that I had covered everything. Dick Evans ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:10:25 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: REvans4@aol.com Subject: Re: file transfer ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- The CINDEX print codes transmit OK from one AOL user to another. I commonly send WordPerfect files via AOL. Also, you can upload to a client FTP site -- if the client has one and your service suypports upload. I don't think AOL does. Dick Evans ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:10:38 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bob Woodard Subject: Re: file transfer In-Reply-To: <199602232336.SAA15127@luna.cas.usf.edu> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- On Thu, 22 Feb 1996, Mary Rasmussen wrote: > It > would help me greatly to be able to send finished indexes to the publisher > via file transfer, but I have been told that the control characters > for Cindex print files and/or AAP typeset files do not transfer well. To transfer the file via the internet, I'd suggest first using a copression program to shrink the file to the smallest possible size (pkzip is popular). After shrinking, I'd then run a program to uuencode the compressed file. This makes the file safe to transfer over the internet by doing 8 to 7 bit conversion. Of course, to send the file this way presupposes that whoever you are sending it to can decompress and uudecode the file. After the file has been uuencoded, you can then attach it as part of a mail message (here in PINE there is an attachment line which is where I would tell it to include the file). For Windows, I use WinZip to compress and decompress the zip files and to uuen/decode, I use WinCode. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:10:57 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PilarW@aol.com Subject: Re: Marking Page Proofs ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Dick, et al, Just a few thoughts to support Lynn's wonderful soliloquy (sp?!)-- I too enter text directly from page proofs without marking. In fact, I just marked up a book for a subcontractor, and *hated* every minute of it. I learned indexing while keyboarding text that had been highlighted by another indexer. As Lynn found, I realized I was reading and rereading, typing and editing, all in a way I can't do when I mark text. The highlights simply get in the way. I am a very fast typist, and my fingers do great work for me. I'm experienced with Cindex, and can easily flip entries in a second, where it would take much more time to indicate exactly how the flip should go when I highlight (either that or a heck of a lot of editing and consternation at the end). As I've said before, I regard my disability insurance as insurance for my fingers. The yellow book commercials tell us to let our fingers do the walking; I let mine do my thinking. ;-) I've compared notes with other indexing colleagues on this. My "younger" colleagues (not necessarily younger in age, but newer to indexing, tho some also younger) seem on the most part to work as I do, while those who have been in the business longer seem to mark text more. I suspect this may have to do with technology. For example, when I first started working in indexing--keyboarding marked entries--Cindex was brand new, and I was already facile at the keyboard what with wordprocessing and computers. Composing at the keyboard is quite natural to me, whereas someone of an 'older' sensibility may prefer to write in longhand first. just my .02, Pilar Wyman Indexing Annapolis, MD Tel/Fax: 410-263-7537 Email: PilarW@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:11:22 ECT Reply-To: hcalvert@cix.compulink.co.uk Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hilary Calvert Subject: *** COPIED FROM: >>>mail/messages 170 INDEX-L@BINGVM(989)23Feb96 05:38 ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Feb 96 05:38 GMT From: hcalvert@cix.compulink.co.uk (Hilary Calvert) Subject: Re: Marking Page Proofs To: INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET Cc: hcalvert@cix.compulink.co.uk Reply-To: hcalvert@cix.compulink.co.uk Message-Id: Lynn You can use F11 to repeat just the last locator of a string in Macrex! This was introduced into version 6 in July 94. So if one entry was cows 1, 3, 5, 6, 9 and you wanted your next one to be calves 9 you would just type calves I agree about not marking the proofs. I find that if I make any marks - or even highlight what seem like important points on the first read-through - this can often mislead me into thinking that a concept was more important than it subsequently (after reading the rest of the book) turns out to be - and that other concepts (which may be 'hidden' by *not* being highlighted) in fact are more indexable. Drusilla ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 17:04:41 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hanne Albrechtsen Subject: CfP, Research Seminar: Fiction, OPACs, Networks ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Please feel free to distribute and re-post ------------ Announcement and Call for Papers Electronic Access to Fiction: Research and Development in Subject Searching, Indexing and Knowledge Transfer via OPACs and Networking. Research Seminar Arranged by The Scandinavian Book House Consortium and The Royal School of Librarianship Sponsored by NORDBOK/Nordfolk, the Nordic Council of Ministers to be held 11-13 November 1996 at the Royal School of Librarianship Copenhagen, Denmark In the years to come, Nordic libraries and librarians will face new challenges in enhancing access to fiction. The introduction of networking and new electronic media in libraries has created a shift from collection-based to access-based information services. Such developments require new ways of accessing fiction and other works of art. The aim of this seminar is thus both to strengthen the Nordic cultural collaboration in access to fiction, and at the same time to contribute to international research and development in electronic access to fiction and other works of art. Papers are invited in 6 major areas as follows: 1. Access to fiction via networks, such as the Internet/World Wide Web 2. IT applications in the arts and humanities, including cataloguing and electronic mediation of works of art, for instance images and music 3. Classification and indexing of fiction or other works of art in local online library catalogues and national/ regional online catalogues 4. Electronic information services for specific user groups and communities , for instance for children; examples: OPAC design, enriched catalogs, multimedia applications 5. Knowledge organization for specific user groups and communities, including, for instance, reader-interest categorization of collections, stock categorization, compilation of user-oriented vocabularies (classification schemes, lists of subject headings, thesauri) 6. Multilingual information searching and compilation of multilingual, multicultural thesauri, in particular for the arts and humanities Prospective speakers are asked to submit extended abstracts in English (500-1000 words) to the chair of the seminar as indicated below. An international program committee will review the abstracts. Authors of accepted abstracts will be requested to submit full papers for publication in seminar proceedings. Seminar and Program Chair: Hanne Albrechtsen, The Royal School of Librarianship, Birketinget 6, DK-2300 Copenhagen S, Denmark; phone: +45 31 58 60 66; fax: +45 32 84 02 01; email: hal@db.dk Submission deadline: July 1 1996 Notification of acceptance: August 23 1996 Final papers due: November 1 1996 Hanne Albrechtsen The Royal School of Librarianship Birketinget 6 DK-2300 Copenhagen S Denmark e-mail: hal@db.dk biskhal@inet.uni-c.dk phone: +45 31 58 60 66 fax: +45 32 84 02 01 Home Address: Jensloevs Tvaervej 11, 3 DK-2920 Charlottenlund Denmark phone: +45 39 64 32 65 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 17:04:51 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MaryMort@aol.com Subject: ASI New York City, March meeting ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Please join us for an informal dinner meeting at the Hunan Balcony. Dr. Peter Liebscher will lead a discussion on the Internet. It is probably common knowledge that the number of users of the Internet is doubling every year and that today some 80 million people have access to its information resources. The number of Internet users has reached a critical mass so that all sorts of organizations are finding it worthwhile to make information available. The environment should be of interest to indexers for two reasons: - There is information directly of interest to indexers. - The way the different information providers organize their information resources should also be interest to indexers. Dr. Liebscher will discuss some of the resources he believes are important for indexers and will provide a handout that provides sufficient information so that those interested can explore the resources for themselves. Date: Thursday, March 14, 1996 Speaker: Peter Liebscher Associate Professor Palmer School of Library and Information Sciences Long Island University Topic: INTERNET Place: Hunan Balcony 1417 Second Avenue (corner of 74th) New York, NY Time: 6:00 p.m. Fee: Members $4.00 Non-members $8.00 (Dinner is not included in the fee.) Limited to 20 people. Please reserve by March 11 by sending your check (payable to ASI New York Chapter), with your name, affiliation, telephone number, and number of members and nonmembers to: Janet Mazefsky Research Institute of America 90 Fifth Ave. New York, NY 10011 If you have questions, Janet can be reached at (212) 337-4168, or contact me at marymort@aol.com. Mary Mortensen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 17:04:59 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JEANNEHPPS@aol.com Subject: Re: Marking Page Proofs ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Regarding skipping the highlighting step of indexing, this does speed up the process, however, it makes proofreading the index for accuracy much more difficult. As a quality control check, I always print out a list of the entries in order, then check the print out against the page proof. (I always find a few mistakes, especially with page numbers.) If the entries weren't highlighted, at least the first and last entry on a page, this would take a lot longer. I believe that this quality control step is important because, above all else, an index must be ACCURATE! Jeanne Busemeyer Hyde Park Publishing Services ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 17:05:12 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@aol.com Subject: Re: Marking Page Proofs ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In a message dated 96-02-24 09:33:55 EST, you write: >I have ordered a "wavy" keyboard with a split in the middle for my >Macintosh *** believe it or not, I just had to go answer the door and it >was the Airborne truck with my package. *** It sure looks weird, but I >have high hopes for it's comfort. I have been looking for one for years, >but the Apple one has function keys on a separate pad, which would drive me >crazy with CINDEX. This is the first all-in-one design I have seen, and it >was a bargain. Larry, Don't expect *immediate* comfort with your new wavy keyboard. The learning curve is steep, but well worth it in the end. If it's anything like the Microsoft keyboard, the strange outward slope to the keys will force you to learn to type with your wrists elevated (which prevents carpal tunnel syndrome). Until you get used to that and the unaccustomed way of positioning your hands (hands and wrists angled outward, away from the center split instead of straight in front of you), you will make typos galore, search for keys, etc. Also, the tactile response of the keys may be somewhat stiffer than what you're accustomed to (which I think is also geared to preventing CTS). At least that's what I went through the first few weeks. However, once you become used to it, the comfort factor is tremendous. My wrists never become tired anymore, no more tingling fingers, etc. The only design flaw, IMHO, is the loss of the left-sided bank of function keys, which drives me crazy with Macrex (function-key intensive like Cindex). Now I have to go to the very top of each bank of keys for them . Other than that, like Pam, I hate to have to type on the "normal" keyboard attached to my other machine. Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:51:08 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Engleman Subject: Marking pages ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I mark my pages heavily before posting and was wondering whether I ought to revise my work habits in light of the recent discussion. Yesterday I received a message that ten percent of the index that I was just finishing had been reset. The index was long out of Cindex and into WordPerfect. I was able to indicate the new page breaks on the marked pages and adjust fairly quickly, but if the pages hadn't been marked, it would have been a much worse job. I think I'll hang onto the practice of marking pages for awhile. Roberta Engleman ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 14:20:46 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mrowland@aol.com Subject: Re: Marking pages ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I have been indexing for many yeats, and, until recently, have never marked pages. Lately, I have taken to marking pages on very complex books, esp. when I don't immediately understand the content. I find this speeds up the indexing process for me, rather than slowing it down, and the quality of the index is much improved! And, yes, it is much easier to find entries if you have to go back and make any changes. Marking pages also has the advantage of giving you a chance to get away from the computer for a while, perhaps working outside in nice weather. For new indexers, complex material, and/or working with publishers who are constanting revising at the last minute, I highly recommend marking pages. Marilyn Rowland Indexing & Writing Falmouth, Massachusetts ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 14:21:03 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@aol.com ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- one who marks pages, and even though you and I are in the minority, I don't intend to revise my work habits. I find it incredibly difficult, and SLOW, to sit down and key in from pages without marking them first, even after a careful (pre)reading of the text.. I think and mark, and then key in with only some thinking. I can't seem to combine the operations and get up any speed. I work best if I limit myself to thinking/marking, and then doing the data entry separately. I find myself coming up with ideas and additional entries as I key in, but the bulk of my thinking was done when I marked pages. The example you gave is one of the very good reasons to continue to mark pages. In case of revision, the entries are easier to spot. If and when I go back to check my work, or to refine a subentry, the material is so much easier to find if pages are marked. I'd say this is a question of different strokes for different folks. I don't intend to modify the way I work because I'm in the minority. It works fine for me! Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 14:21:26 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Isawriter@aol.com Subject: Tables and figures ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I am seeking opinions on the indexing of tables and figures. My current project stipulates that they should be indexed. The dilemma is that indexing entries are supposed to be the sole of brevity and the captions or titles I am dealing with are not. Glimpsing through the book, I find entries that have 8 to 9 words, and I see no easy way of distilling the meaning. Suggestions appreciated. Craig Brown ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 16:39:17 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: Re: Marking Page Proofs ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Re Pilar's note about "older" indexers marking proofs because they started before computers: I used to make entries directly onto index cards, without marking pages. Why write twice--it takes twice the time! I too think best with my fingers, and type very fast. When I have tried highlighting, and I have done so on various occasions, it tends to distract me. However, it is useful to have an assistant (my daughter's become good at this) highlight people's names. I still have to read through the page, so if anything is missed, I catch it, but it does speed up that particular type of entry making. Elinor Lindheimer elinorl@mcn.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 16:39:51 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey Subject: Re: file transfer ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- At 09:27 22/02/96 ECT, Mary Rasmussen wrote: >----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >Hi, >I'm new to the board, and have been following topics with great interest. >I have a question about transferring index files on the Internet. It >would help me greatly to be able to send finished indexes to the publisher >via file transfer, but I have been told that the control characters >for Cindex print files and/or AAP typeset files do not transfer well. >Therefore, the publisher will not accept them and I end up mailing >hard copies with a diskette after all. Has anyone had more/better >experience with this and how do I do it? How do you transfer files? The most convenient way is via an attachment to e-mail. To do this you will need to meet the following requirements: 1. An e-mail program for you that supports 'attached' files. 2. An e-mail program for your publisher that supports receiving attachments, set up to store them in a directory on disk. 3. An agreed-upon standard for the transfer protocol (usually MIME). 4. Hardware at both ends that can work with the file you transfer. If you are having format problems, the reason is likely to be because you and the publisher are using different hardware: you may be using an IBM PC and they may be using a VAX mainframe, for instance. Control characters that 'make sense' to a PC don't mean the same thing to other types of computers. The solution is to convert your index file to a low-level format before sending it - e.g. to the Microsoft RTF format, which uses plain ASCII characters to record formatting information. Most word processing programs (and Macrex) support RTF; I don't know about Cindex. Your publisher can then run _their_ conversion routine to convert the plain text RTF file back into something their hardware can work with. Let me know if you have any more questions. Jonathan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Jermey & Glenda Browne (Blue Mountains Desktop Pty Ltd. - ACN 071 232 016) Blaxland NSW Australia jonathan@magna.com.au http://www.magna.com.au/~jonathan Australian Wildlife in the Cheese Shop: "We had some, but the cat's eaten it." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 16:40:06 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PilarW@aol.com Subject: Re: Marking Page Proofs ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In a message dated 96-02-27 15:17:51 EST, you (Dick) wrote: >I find it a nightmare to cross post while I'm entering. Interesting! I love flipping and doubleposting while I'm entering--that way I generally don't have to worry about it at the end. The one time I tried to hold off, and do something like what you do, I missed so much I couldn't believe it. In my current procedures, I can easily spot discrepancies and check for flips at the end, but I do most of the necessary doubleposting and cross-referencing from the beginning. Drusilla, you mentioned another problem with highlighting, the items *not* highlighted! Are there any indexers who mark text in other ways? I've often considered writing in the margins and trying to stay off the text as much as possible. A study of methods would definitely be interesting. fair winds, Pilar ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 09:32:26 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marge Coahrant Subject: Re: Targetting publishers (Was :Earnings . . .) ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Dick, Have you tried Literary Marketplace? It lists publishers by a variety of categories, including subject area. Or perhaps you've checked and theiry categories are not specific enough for your needs? Marge Coahran ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 09:32:34 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@aol.com Subject: Re: Marking pages ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- All, A further thought on marking pages. Marilyn touched briefly on an excellent point. Perhaps it has to do with the type of material being indexed, rather than how long one has been indexing. The "upper-level" scientific material I index is highly complex, involved, and conceptual. It would be difficult to impossible to keyboard and index at the same time, as formulating an entry often means reading and understanding a few pages of very difficult text and figuring out its relation to the preceding text and the material following, etc. My pages rarely have more than one or two headings and/or italicized/boldface headings and terms. Not much jumps out at you. Perhaps for material of this nature, the process has to be done differently than for a computer manual, full of short "sound-bytes" of text, a lot of italicized and boldface headings and terms, etc. It may be that comparison of work methods is less useful than we realize, unless we preface our remarks with the type of stuff we index. There may be some parallels or relationships we are not realizing yet. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 09:32:44 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@aol.com Subject: Re: Targeting publishers (Was :Earnings . . .) ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Dick, I've done "market research" in the bookstore, to see who publishes in my field. I have also used Literary Marketplace extensively. Very extensively. I've found not only publishers, but professional associations, which do both journals and book publishing. I don't know if this would help you out in the software manual field, but for more "standard" academic disciplines, the LMP is excellent. I also subscribe to Publishers Weekly, to keep abreast of who publishes what (the ads alone are a goldmine), what's doing in the publishing and bookselling field (feature articles on particular segments of the publishing industry especially), and finally to use the classified ads as market research tools. I do NOT find ads for indexers there. But I do look at the ads for editors, to see who is expanding, who is hiring, and to read the descriptions of the companies and their product lines. I also get a full address and sometimes a contact name. If I find a firm I was not aware of before that is likely to publish in the scientific/engineering fields I am most interested in, I then send the usual "cold call" letter and resume. As proof that it works, I've gotten one very nice contract for ongoing work this way. I found a company that publishes professional publications - a monthly and a weekly - in the air conditioning/refrigeration/heating industry -- halfway across the country from where I am. I never would have run into anything of theirs otherwise had I not been scanning the PW ads. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 09:32:53 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@aol.com Subject: Re: Double Posting ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Dick, Interesting idea - a study of indexers' methods. As for double posting, I do mine at the time of marking pages, or at least when I'm doing data entry. I couldn't do it as you do -- at the end. I find it simpler, and very natural, to think of double posting as I formulate the entries as I work. I don't know if this has to do with Macrex's capabilities. You can't search and edit in Macrex as you can in Cindex, which also plays a part in how one can work. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 09:33:02 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@aol.com Subject: Re: file transfer ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In a message dated 96-02-23 20:41:49 EST, you write: > It >would help me greatly to be able to send finished indexes to the publisher >via file transfer, but I have been told that the control characters >for Cindex print files and/or AAP typeset files do not transfer well. Mary, Are you talking about files where you've entered AAP codes for the typesetter? Are you sending your AAP files as word processor files, Cindex-format files? I recommend saving them (from your word processor if you can't directly from Cindex) as pure ASCII files, unless the publisher or typesetter actually wants them as Cindex files. The purpose of putting the AAP codes into the index is to give the typesetter complete instructions on how to set each line into type, so there's no need for word processor-applied formatting, Cindex control codes, etc. In case anyone's confused about this, the AAP codes themselves are pure text strings. Here's an AAP-coded entry from an index I'm working on. It's all pure text and the typesetter knows exactly what to do with it (what's the main entry, what's the subentry, what to set in italics, what to set in bold, etc.). cis-3a-Aryloctahydroindolone 363

in indole nucleus elaboration, 171-172 I've sent AAP-coded files as pure ASCII files over the Internet without any need to "massage" them on either end. Your Cindex files are another issue entirely. (See other posts on the subject.) Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 09:33:16 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@aol.com Subject: Re: Targetting publishers (Was :Earnings . . .) ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In a message dated 96-02-27 15:16:14 EST, Dick wrote: > >>I do recommend targetting publishers who publish books in the area of your >>expertise > >This brings up a question that I have been struggling with: How do you find >publishers in your area of expertise? > Dick I too sunk $$ into a pricey phone directory "organized" by SICk codes with abysmal results. > >The only method that has worked is to go to the library or a bookstore and >browse the titles in the computer section. That's what I had in mind in my original post. The Literary Marketplace is the best source, however, I actually landed a client by using the "Writer's Market", published by Writer's Digest books. The projects I got through them paid for more than a lifetime of annual editions. (I buy it annually. If I marketed annually, I might get even more clients out of it. ;-D) Because it's oriented toward writers, it usually gives the names of acquisitions editors, not the production and managing editors that we're interested in. However, the synopses of the types of books each publisher publishes is pretty decent. "Writer's Market" is available from bookstores, ads in Writers Digest magazine, and the Writer's Digest book club. Another stay-at-home way of researching publishers is to access the ASI Web page and follow the links to publishers' home pages. Many of them put catalogs of their most recent publications online, giving you a good idea of what types of books they publish. We included those links so that indexers can do market research online. Another sort of weird route online is just Web surfing, using Web search engines for whatever subject you're interested in (also linked to from the ASI Web site). I stumbled across one of my clients' sites online which had a treasure trove of third-party publishers of books about their software products. One of these days, I'll get around to contacting those publishers and telling them that I index for the software company whose products they publish books on. (Any hook will do in a marketing blitz.) The URL for the ASI Web page is http://www.well.com/user/ASI/ (I have it bookmarked and never type it out, so I hope I have it right this time.) Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 09:33:25 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey Subject: Re: file transfer ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- At 11:10 26/02/96 ECT, Bob Woodard wrote: >----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > To transfer the file via the internet, I'd suggest first using a >copression program to shrink the file to the smallest possible size >(pkzip is popular). After shrinking, I'd then run a program to uuencode >the compressed file. This makes the file safe to transfer over the >internet by doing 8 to 7 bit conversion. Of course, to send the file >this way presupposes that whoever you are sending it to can decompress >and uudecode the file. This adds four stages at which things can go wrong - two going in and two coming out. ZIPping is not going to make much size difference to a typical index file, which is usually well under 100Kb, and as I understand it, UUENCODE is primarily there to allow binary files like pictures and sounds to be transmitted _as text_ in newsgroup messages and e-mail, Using the Attach... option is preferable because it allows the document to be transmitted in its original form. The problem is probably with the platform being transmitted to, not the transmission itself. Jonathan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Jermey & Glenda Browne (Blue Mountains Desktop Pty Ltd. - ACN 071 232 016) Blaxland NSW Australia jonathan@magna.com.au http://www.magna.com.au/~jonathan Australian Wildlife in the Cheese Shop: "We had some, but the cat's eaten it." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 09:33:34 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DP1301@aol.com Subject: Re: Tables and figures ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Craig, I did a business statistics book last summer that was riddled with tables. Each had a long descriptive title. The author paid me directly, and I shipped it on to a desk top publisher, so my guess is that it was almost a vanity work. It didn't seem to me that the author was saying much of anything new from chapter to chapter--and much was certainly repeated. But it isn't generally my field, so I could be way off on that analysis. It was easy to see though that the tables were important to the book, so I squeezed into the index as much of the long titles as I could. And flipped them to at least double post them if not a little more, but that got out of hand so I single posted these amazingly long entries. This index was not only long--it was wide. The author was pleased even though I felt I was violating all the rules. The bottom line rule though is--do what needs to be done for the book. It sounds like you haven't gotten guidelines, so it's a judgement call. Good luck. Deborah Patton freelance indexer in Baltimore 410/243-4688 dp1301@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 09:33:46 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli@aol.com Subject: Re: Tables and figures ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Craig Brown wrote about indexing tables and figures, and the need to keep his entries short. I'd suggest that rather than indexing the (long) title of the figure, you might want to index the *subject* of the table or appropriate segments from the title. For example, a journal I just indexed contained the following picture caption: "Esau Jenkins speaking to the congregation in Moving Star Hall." I indexed "Jenkins, Esau" and "Moving Star Hall." If it were appropriate for the subject of the article, I could also have indexed under "religious services," "places of worship," "preaching," etc. Of course, with technical material such distillation are more difficult. Anyway, that's my humble opinion. Fred Leise "Between the Lines" Indexing and Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 09:33:57 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: REvans4@aol.com Subject: Re: Marking Page Proofs ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In a message dated 96-02-27 22:27:49 EST, you write: >The one time I tried to >hold off, and do something like what you do, I missed so much I couldn't >believe it. Bear in mind that I specialize in computer books that tend to be formulaic -- i.e. they follow a simple repeating pattern throughout the book. This lends itself to the kind of cross posting I described in an earlier note. Other topics in other formats might not work so well. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 09:34:16 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Tables and figures ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >I am seeking opinions on the indexing of tables and figures. I >see no easy way of distilling the meaning. > Suggestions appreciated. > Craig, maybe you could give us some examples, because distilling is what I would have advised. Cheers, ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 09:34:41 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: file transfer ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I've taken to sending the client a sample file attachment (a few lines from another index) to see if it works--well before I'm finsihed with the index. My mail program (Eudora) compresses, etc., automagically, but sometimes the client doesn't have the necessary expansion software or whatever. It's great when it works, though, because it can buy you a couple of extra days. Cheers, Carol ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 09:34:56 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Marking Page Proofs ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >Drusilla, you mentioned another problem with highlighting, the items *not* >highlighted! Are there any indexers who mark text in other ways? I've often >considered writing in the margins and trying to stay off the text as much as >possible. I started out underlining, but I found that when I used pencil or blue or black ink, I missed a lot, because the color was too close to the type color. Then I switched to very bright pen inks: hot pink, bright green, aqua. Even that was not enough, so I ended up with highlighter. Now I'm trying Lynn's method. One thing to keep in mind about work habits and trying new things is that you can expect a new method to be very slow in the beginning and to seem unnatural, but that alone doesn't mean it isn't the best method for you. Sometimes the only way to find out is to try it for a while. Well, I know I'm not saying anything earth-shattering here. But I do want to say a big THANK YOU to Lynn for letting us in on her secret and for taking the trouble to describe it in detail. As I said, I am trying it, and to be honest I find I have roughly the same level of confusion about what I'm doing. ;-) Seriously, I do find myself rereading a lot, but I love not having to do a lot of writing. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | Life is good. Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | Milwaukee, WI | ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 09:35:11 ECT Reply-To: hcalvert@cix.compulink.co.uk Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hilary Calvert Subject: Re: Marking Page Proofs -> double-posting ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- FWIW, here's another suggestion for double posting (in Macrex this time, but I assume it could be adapted for Cindex): Make "see" references for all your potential double entries (e.g. if you think you might want to have all the references and subheadings you've made under `birth' duplicated under `childbirth' type childbirth ^see^ birth while making the index. When you have finished the index except for the double entries group your "see" refs and decide which ones you want double-posted. Then get the first e.g `birth' entry at the top of the screen. Now make your all-purpose double entry macro, which consists of copying each "birth" entry to the top of the index (by putting ~aaa~ in front of each entry as you copy it) and then do a global change of, e.g. ^~aaa~birth to childbirth (the caret before the first tilde will limit the search to entries *beginning* with ~aaa~) Then remove your see ref. Using a macro this can be done very quickly. What you have to watch out for, though, is that your synonyms really *are* synonyms, or you may get some really weird results (as I've found to my cost!) If any Macrex user would like more details (of macro keystrokes, etc.) let me know! Drusilla hcalvert@cix.compulink.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:21:02 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Presley, Paula" Subject: MARKING PAGES ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Here's a little different spin on the page-marking discussion. I am in the (happy or unhappy) position of being in charge of all production and copy editing here (small, very small, university press). I do some substantive editing (and freelance editing and indexing, too). So, when I make an index I am thoroughly familiar with the book, am well acquainted with the author, an advantage most indexers don't have! My reading of the text while making the index serves not only to write the index, but as an additional proofreading. (We hire an especially gifted freelance proofreader). So, my marks on the page are seldom related to indexing, but to proofreading. (I realize that indexers, by the very nature of their work, become sort of "back-up" proofreaders--to a greater or lesser degree). One of these days we should do some research on others who are in a similar position. For example, I find that I "read" the text differently when I do editing and when I do indexing. (On some occasions I have later read the completed book as one would read a newly purchased book--that's still different from reading as an editor or as an indexer!) Cheers! ________________________________________________________________ Paula Presley FAX 816-785-4181 VOICE 816-785-4525 Associate Editor, Thomas Jefferson University Press Northeast Missouri State Univ. (Truman State University July 96) McClain Hall 111-L, 100 E. Normal St., Kirksville, MO 63501-4221 Internet: ppresley%nemomus@nemostate.edu ________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:21:27 ECT Reply-To: Teresa A Hudoba Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Teresa Hudoba Subject: Population descriptors ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Hi folks-- I'm a long time lurker on Index-L who, though quiet, has learned much from the discussions going on here. I could use a little help from all you wordsmiths. Briefly, I'm working on a project to develop a grants classification and tracking system for a network of grants-making organizations. (For those of you planning to attend the ASI meeting in Denver, I'll present more detail on Saturday--see "Raiding the Pantry.") A big part of the project involves coming up with appropriate language, in a controlled vocabulary, to describe the population(s) that benefit from receiving grants. One of the population characteristics we've chosen is citizenship. As NTs of it, we've used 'aliens' and 'resident aliens.' However, our client says 'alien' is a hostile word in today's politically correct world. I don't disagree, but have yet to come up with any good substitutes. Any thoughts out there? Thanks much-- Terri ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:21:38 ECT Reply-To: Teresa A Hudoba Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Teresa Hudoba Subject: Population descriptors ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Hi folks-- I'm a long time lurker on Index-L who, though quiet, has learned much from the discussions going on here. I could use a little help from all you wordsmiths. Briefly, I'm working on a project to develop a grants classification and tracking system for a network of grants-making organizations. (For those of you planning to attend the ASI meeting in Denver, I'll present more detail on Saturday--see "Raiding the Pantry.") A big part of the project involves coming up with appropriate language, in a controlled vocabulary, to describe the population(s) that benefit from receiving grants. One of the population characteristics we've chosen is citizenship. As NTs of it, we've used 'aliens' and 'resident aliens.' However, our client says 'alien' is a hostile word in today's politically correct world. I don't disagree, but have yet to come up with any good substitutes. Any thoughts out there? Thanks much-- Terri ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:21:49 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@aol.com Subject: Re: Marking Page Proofs ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Carol and all, Seems simple, but yet nobody said it until now. Bright colored pens. I only work in red. Anything written on the page or underlined is in red if not in highlighter. I never use black or blue. Also helps to mark a draft in red while editing it, it you're working on paper instead of on-screen. (I often take one swipe at a hard copy after working online for most of the editing. I find things will jump out at me better, and that's my final check.) Red markings are so much easier to spot. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:21:58 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joanne Clendenen Subject: Re: Marking Text ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- A very interesting thread, to be sure. I must be a mongrel then. I "mark" my text, but I highlight almost exclusively. I also highlight not just single words, but sometimes phrases or whole sentences. I also put synonyms or terms that continue from page to page in the margin. I do this one to several chapters at a time, and then enter. I do psychology, history and biography books, which tend to have concepts that run through several pages, then disappear, then reappear later. If I'm doing a first person work, their are usually lots of implied terms, which I translate to index terms in the margins. I find that I need to read a chunk of the book before I know what to enter. The one thing (besides experience) that has dramatically increased my speed is CINDEX. I used INSORT on a Mac, before, and the change has been amazing! Just not having to enter so many characters for formatting, etc., has saved me a tremendous amount of time. I agree that if we were to do a study of methods, success would depend very much on the type of material indexed. Joanne Clendenen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:22:15 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joanne Clendenen Subject: Re: file Transfer ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- The biggest problem I had when sending an index file via email over AOL was the hard page return reincarnation. I sent an ASCII text file of an index that was in paragraph format. The publisher doesn't use codes for the different levels of entries, so I started with a text file with paragraphs that had soft returns within the para. The publisher wanted no indents for the subentry paragraph; he was going to put them in himself. As long as the paragraphs stayed intact, this would work; he'd just have to put the index on his word processor and make a hanging indent for all paragraphs. But, when I sent the index, all the soft line returns were changed to hard paragraph returns, so there was no way to tell which lines belonged to one paragraph. We gave up at that point and went back to FEDEX. If anyone is computer literate enough to know a way to get around this problem, let me know. I haven't tried to do it since I joined MSN. You folks are right about the vagaries of file transfer. When I attach a file to a message, sometimes the receiver gets it ok, and sometimes they get gobbeldygook. The only safe way is to send it as a cut and paste into the message itself. Joanne Clendenen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:22:34 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Isawriter@aol.com Subject: Tables and figures ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Sorry, I should have included samples of my dilemma with my original query: A few examples: -Sociodemographics of non-U.S. citizen respondents to the NLIS. -Demographic of U.S. citizen respondents to the LNPS. -Voting and nonvoting patterns is the 1992 elections (by race and ethnic group). -Public policy perspectives of voters (by national origin). -Public policy perspectives of nonregistered U.S. citizen adults (by national origin). Thanks, everyone! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:22:44 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: KArrigoni2@aol.com Subject: Letter-by-letter alphabetizing on Mac? ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Hi everyone, Is there a program or utility for the Mac that does letter-by-letter alphabetizing? Both of the word processors I use (Microsoft Word and MacWrite Pro) only do word-by-word sorting. I'm kind of new to indexing, but I do know that there's got to be a better way than sorting word by word on my word processor and then letter by letter myself. I haven't gotten to the point of using a dedicated indexing program yet, although I'm seriously thinking of checking out CINDEX one of these days. Thanks for any advice/recommendations. Karin Arrigoni ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:22:55 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: REvans4@aol.com Subject: Re: Double Posting ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In a message dated 96-02-28 09:59:43 EST, you write: >As for double posting, I do >mine at the time of marking pages, or at least when I'm doing data entry. I >couldn't do it as you do -- at the end. I find it simpler, and very natural, >to think of double posting as I formulate the entries as I work. In an offline conversation with Lynn this morning, she pointed out that I effectively *do* crosspost up front. At least, I do the intellectual analysis up front but collect the potential cross postings as temporary subentries until the final edit, at which time I do the mechanics of distributing the cross postings. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:23:07 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: REvans4@aol.com Subject: Re: Targetting publishers (Was :Earnings . . .) ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I recall trying the Literary Market Place and all I remember is that it was labor intensive. I have had good luck with a book called "Insider's Guide to Book Editors, Publishers, and Literary Agents," ISBN 1-55958-545-5. It's about $20. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:23:22 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Australian Society of Indexers Subject: Society of Indexers Conference in Bristol on AusSI Web Site ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Greetings!! I have created a few pages for the SI Conference. Their URL is you have a Web browser is: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi/socindex.htm Cheers Dwight ------- Dwight Walker Webmaster Australian Society of Indexers +61-2-3986726 (h) +61-2-4393750 (w) W-F URL: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:23:36 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@aol.com Subject: Re: Marking pages ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In a message dated 96-02-28 09:57:44 EST, Janet wrote: >Marilyn touched briefly on an excellent point. Perhaps it has to do with the >type of material being indexed, rather than how long one has been indexing. > The "upper-level" scientific material I index is highly complex, involved, >and conceptual. It would be difficult to impossible to keyboard and index at >the same time, as formulating an entry often means reading and understanding >a few pages of very difficult text and figuring out its relation to the >preceding text and the material following, etc. My pages rarely have more >than one or two headings and/or italicized/boldface headings and terms. Not >much jumps out at you. Janet, We index some of the same kind of material, so that may not be the determinant in most cases of whether one marks the proofs or not. Though I admit that it was a very intriguing idea you had about seeing whether there was any correlation. Maybe there is, as I'm too small a sample to be statistically significant. ;-D I wholeheartedly agree that the high-level scientific material we index often requires reading quite a bit to gain enough of an understanding to formulate an entry. To be honest with you, I admire your ability to hold the concept you derive long enough to be able to write it out in longhand. Sometimes my understanding of something is so fleeting that if I don't flash it directly from brain to index via the keyboard, it could be lost, since typing is so automatic to me, while writing in longhand is not. Another problem I personally would find with highlighting some scientific material, not all, would be that the page would be so dense with highlights and writing that I'd become lost in it. For example, this one sentence facing me now would become almost a solid block of color: "Methylation of cocculine (88), coccoline (51), coccuvine (50), and isococculine (58) with diazomethane in MeOH gave cocculidine (85), coccoline (49), coccuvinine (48), and isococculidine (57), respectively." As this is a book on alkaloids and researchers are likely to look up specific alkaloids, I have to index everyone of those puppies (the terms followed by numbers). Fortunately most of this particular page is taken up by a huge figure containing structural formulae, however, there are 10-15 potential entries of alkaloid names alone on just this one page. > >It may be that comparison of work methods is less useful than we realize, >unless we preface our remarks with the type of stuff we index. There may be >some parallels or relationships we are not realizing yet. You have an excellent point here, however, the correlation, if there is one, may lie in area having to do with something other than the type of material we index. For example, Dick, who indexes a lot of computer material, does highlight his pages and I don't, despite indexing a lot of the same type of material he does. Fascinating question here. :-D Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:24:02 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@aol.com Subject: Re: Double Posting ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In a message dated 96-02-28 09:59:16 EST, Janet wrote: >Dick, > >Interesting idea - a study of indexers' methods. As for double posting, I do >mine at the time of marking pages, or at least when I'm doing data entry. I >couldn't do it as you do -- at the end. I find it simpler, and very natural, >to think of double posting as I formulate the entries as I work. Janet and Dick, I double-post as I go along for the same reasons that Janet does. Another reason for double-posting while working, IMHO, is that if double-posting is left to the very end, I'd lose some of the subtle relationships suggested in the text but not necessarily apparent in the entries themselves when viewed "cold" at the end. Some formulaic, procedurally-oriented texts lend themselves well to Dick's object-oriented approach (what a cool idea, BTW, for conceptualizing things!), however, while indexing I encounter a lot of "Aha's!" that, if not seized upon immediately, could be lost forever. And this can affect the very structure of the index itself, IMHO. The Aha! Factor is very important in weaving the tapestry of the index, especially if the material is extremely challenging (as some object-oriented programming texts were when I first started indexing them ;-D). (But then, after writing this but before sending it, I happened to talk with Dick on the phone and he said that his method DOES catch the "Aha's". ;-D) > >I don't know if this has to do with Macrex's capabilities. You can't search >and edit in Macrex as you can in Cindex, which also plays a part in how one >can work. Janet, try Macrex's Group mode which seems to be the equivalent of Cindex's Find command. I use it constantly, not only for double-posting when it subsequently dawns on me midstream that something I hadn't been double-posting should be double-posted, but also for restructuring the index, which I do frequently while working. I just couldn't live without this extremely powerful tool. Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:24:22 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@aol.com Subject: Re: Tables and figures ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In a message dated 96-02-28 09:57:29 EST, you write: >Craig Brown wrote about indexing tables and figures, and the need to keep his >entries short. I'd suggest that rather than indexing the (long) title of the >figure, you might want to index the *subject* of the table or appropriate >segments from the title. For example, a journal I just indexed contained the >following picture caption: "Esau Jenkins speaking to the congregation in >Moving Star Hall." I indexed "Jenkins, Esau" and "Moving Star Hall." If it >were appropriate for the subject of the article, I could also have indexed >under "religious services," "places of worship," "preaching," etc. Craig and Fred, I find Fred's advice to be right on the money and that's the approach I use to indexing table and figure captions. That's when I index them at all. Often a figure or table is within a page range covered by entries for the text surrounding it. When that happens, I assume that the reader will encounter the table or figure as part of reading the related text. On those frequent occasions when the text flow (or poor planning) forces the table/figure onto a distant page, I distill the caption as I would any other text to generate entries. Craig, is your client actually stating that these be indexed separately, regardless of where they occur? And BTW, you think 8 or 9-word captions are bad? I've had books where the figure captions (at 8 or 9 pts or less!) took up half a page and went onto the next. ;-D > >Of course, with technical material such distillation are more difficult. >Anyway, that's my humble opinion. To be honest, Fred, I haven't noticed that technical material poses any greater difficulty. Wouldn't it be less difficult, given that the concepts are usually less nebulous than other types of material? But then I rarely index anything other than technical or scientific material--making my opinion on this extremely humble with little to compare it to. ;-D Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:24:45 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@aol.com Subject: Re: Marking page proofs ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In a message dated 96-02-27 18:07:24 EST, Janet wrote: > >I'd say this is a question of different strokes for different folks. I don't >intend to modify the way I work because I'm in the minority. It works fine >for me! Janet, You're probably in the vast majority when it comes to marking pages. Here on the list, there's been a lot from those of us who don't mark pages, but it's probably because we're the ones deviating from the norm (thus tending to be more vocal about it). It's the same phenomena as those call-in polls that are not meant to be a scientific sampling of opinion because the respondents are self-selected. You're OK, we're OK. Our indexes are OK. ;-D Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:25:23 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PilarW@aol.com Subject: Re: Marking pages ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Janet, Interesting point, that indexer style differences may be tied to the subjects indexed. For what it's worth, the bulk of my indexing is medical and clinical science. In addition, I do health care, general interest scholarly books, maritime topics, literacy studies, and political science. I use the same method (straight from hardcopy into the computer via Cindex) for all subject matter. For books, I first vet the manuscript, marking page ranges and highlighting figure and table cites in the text as well as authors if an author index is called for, and then I enter the index. For other indexes, ie for indexes to compilations of abstracts and back-of-the-journal, there is not pre-indexing vetting. fair winds and happy indexing, Pilar ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:25:36 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Annblum@aol.com Subject: Re: Marking Page Proofs ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In response to Pilar and Lynn's descriptions of marking up versus reading and keying in text, I thought that I'd like to share my way of indexing. Believe me, most people think that my way is MOST laborious, but it works for me! I highlight and write out in abbreviated form each entry, with page number range. I use extensive abbreviations, etc. and use my CINDEX F keys for repeated heads and phrases, etc. I then subcontract ALL my keying in to keyboardists (?), who can do this faster than I can and more accurately. I then do all the editing and completion of the index. I believe that this saves me the time of keyboarding and rethinking while I'm doing this. I also keep a style sheet that I use to keep track of the way in which I word entries. This keeps me on track and eliminates too extensive editing at the end. Since incorporating this style about 8 years ago, I have increased my productivity immensely. This leaves me to do the brainwork and enables me to take on more work. That's how I do it! Ann Blum