From: SMTP%"LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu" 6-JUN-1996 06:11:43.46 To: CIRJA02 CC: Subj: File: "INDEX-L LOG9605D" Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 05:49:41 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9605D" To: CIRJA02@GSVMS1.CC.GASOU.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 00:10:31 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LiuPalmer@AOL.COM Subject: Update for information regarding the Liu-Palmer Thesaurus Construction System If possible, we would appreciate an update of information about our thesaurus software on zeta.org.au/~aussi/thesauri.htm. Our address is: Liu-Palmer 8205 Santa Monica Blvd. Suite 1-295 Los Angeles, CA 90046-5912 voice, 213-654-7569 fax, 213-650-6446 e-mail, LiuPalmer@aol.com There are two current releases, both for Windows. The Professional Edition supports an umlimited number of thesauri, each with up to 2,000 hierarchies, and an unlimited number of terms in a hierarchy. Several published thesauri have been built with the Professional Edition; including, AARP Ageline Thesaurus, Engineering Information Thesaurus, CDC Health Promotion and Education Thesaurus, and the ASIS Thesaurus of Information Science and Librarianship. The Professional Edition sells for $699. The Basic Edition limits construction of a thesaurus to a single hierarchy. It sells for $349. A Network version of the Professional Edition is about to undergo testing. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 01:37:11 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: Spam and Charlotte In a message dated 96-05-21 15:51:26 EDT, Gale wrote: >In a message dated 96-05-21 09:56:11 EDT, Laura Moss Gottlieb wrote: > >>The whole exchange when the listserve is on automatic pilot appears much >freer, open, and lively < > >I've been saying this for months. And it is really strange. Charlotte would >never censor a real posting and it can be a real pain to have messages >waiting every time I log on to send a message. Gale, I agree that Charlotte doesn't censor real postings. I think the liveliness arises from the fact that, when the list is on autopilot, postings are distributed within minutes or seconds after they're sent. So, the discussions run a lot faster with responses occurring more closely to real time, leading to more interactivity. I think it's a subtle psychological thing of being a bit more likely to post when you know your message will appear shortly afterward. None of this is meant to detract, BTW, from the real service that Charlotte performs for us INDEX-ellers. (And, I happen to like having messages waiting whenever I flash on to retrieve mail. Then it doesn't feel as if I wasted time and effort by logging on.) Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 01:37:10 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: Taxonomy indexes In a message dated 96-05-21 14:21:18 EDT, you write: >Does anyone have a good reference source to suggest for >systematics/nomenclature of evolutionary and extinct fauna? Charts, texts, >etc. all welcome. > >I have found a few sources but they don't really address the fine points >that I need to check, so.... > > Cynthia, There is a lot of information on the Web related to systematics, phylogenetics, etc. On the ASI Web site, we have pointers to glossaries on the subject and perhaps those sites will take you to the specific information that you need with specifics on evolutionary and extinct fauna. (I haven't specifically encountered info on evolutionary and extinct fauna, but I've always found what I've wanted for systematics/nomenclature issues.) The URL for the ASI Web site is: http://www.well.com/user/asi/ (The URL is on the back of the ASI T-shirt I'm wearing at the moment and I had to have my husband read it back to me to verify it just now. ;-D) If the pointers to the glossaries take you down blind alleys, then try using one of the search engines accessible from our site. Search strings ANDing fauna with extinct with systematics may get you where you want to go. Happy surfing! (I had happy hunting, then thought that wouldn't be appropriate for the subject of "extinct" fauna. ;-D) If you need any further help on this, feel free to email me privately. (BTW, being that you were in Denver, it would have been fantastic if you had presented this question at the ASI Web site demonstration when I solicited topics from the audience. It would have been an interesting search on a real-world indexing problem.) Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 09:19:47 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Resent-From: Kate McCain Comments: Originally-From: LiuPalmer@AOL.COM From: Kate McCain Subject: Update for information regarding the Liu-Palmer Thesaurus Construction System I am curious -- of what value is a thesaurus package that only creates a single hierarchy? When my students do prototype thesaurus development, they are required to work with at least three separate, independent facets and thus three hierarchies. Most thesauri that I am familiar with, that are well designed, have many hierarchies, whether faceted or simply separate subject groupings. Am I missing something here? Kate McCain mccainkw@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- If possible, we would appreciate an update of information about our thesaurus software on zeta.org.au/~aussi/thesauri.htm. Our address is: Liu-Palmer 8205 Santa Monica Blvd. Suite 1-295 Los Angeles, CA 90046-5912 voice, 213-654-7569 fax, 213-650-6446 e-mail, LiuPalmer@aol.com There are two current releases, both for Windows. The Professional Edition supports an umlimited number of thesauri, each with up to 2,000 hierarchies, and an unlimited number of terms in a hierarchy. Several published thesauri have been built with the Professional Edition; including, AARP Ageline Thesaurus, Engineering Information Thesaurus, CDC Health Promotion and Education Thesaurus, and the ASIS Thesaurus of Information Science and Librarianship. The Professional Edition sells for $699. The Basic Edition limits construction of a thesaurus to a single hierarchy. It sells for $349. A Network version of the Professional Edition is about to undergo testing. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 09:27:10 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: autoresponder@WHITEHOUSE.GOV Subject: Re: Update for information regarding the Liu-Palmer Thesaurus Construction Dear Friend: Thank you for writing to Vice President Gore via electronic mail. Since coming on-line, vice.president@whitehouse.gov has received thousands of messages from people all over the world. Although the volume of mail prevents the Vice President from personally reviewing each message, be assured that your concerns, ideas, and suggestions have been read carefully, and a detailed report of the mail is provided to the Vice President on a regular basis. Your message will be brought to his attention as part of that report. We currently are working toward a system that will allow us to respond more specifically to your messages. In order to do so, your help will be needed to ensure that we can read and record your message clearly. Please try to write short and concise messages, address only one issue per message, and send only one copy of your message. You will receive one automated response per day. On October 20, 1994, President Clinton and Vice President Gore acted to improve the accessibility of government information by opening a service called "Welcome to the White House: An Interactive Citizens' Handbook" on the Internet. This new World Wide Web service provides a single point of access to all electronic government information on the Internet. By using a free Web-browsing software program such as Mosaic or Cello, the user can access a multimedia interface to information from the White House and the Executive Branch of government, including White House documents, a virtual tour of the White House, and detailed information about Cabinet-level and independent agencies. This interface includes photographs, audio, and "hotlinks" to other government Web sites and services. You should check with your service provider for instructions on how to browse the Web. "Welcome to the White House" can be accessed at: http://www.whitehouse.gov Though the new Web server provides access to White House documents and publications, we will continue to provide these by e-mail. To receive instructions, please send a message to the following address (**do not "reply" to the memo you are now reading**): publications@whitehouse.gov In the body of your message, type "Send Info" (without quotes); no other text should be included, specifically message headers or signature lines (.sig files). The instructions will be sent to you automatically. Also, we now have a FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) document that, among other things, lists certain other sources of government information. (The FAQ file is approximately 35K in size; you should check with your service provider to ensure that you can receive files of this size.) This FAQ address is an autoresponder only; any comment sent to this address will not be acknowledged. In order to obtain this, you should send an e-mail message to: faq@whitehouse.gov All of us at the White House are excited about the progress that has been made with this historic project, and we look forward to future developments. Your continued interest and participation are very important to us. Sincerely, Bill Mason Director of Correspondence for the Vice President [You will only receive one automated response per day] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 08:06:10 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Re: Salary survey In-Reply-To: <9605220119.AA14501@mx4.u.washington.edu> I was one of the people at the Chapter Leaders breakfast who volunteered to work on an ASI rate survey (NOT salary survey per se, since we're talking about freelance rates in addition to salaried jobs). Sandi Schroeder, chair of the ASI Research Committee, is leading the group. (I don't have her email address at hand, but presume she will chime in on this thread at some point and will welcome comments.) And Ann Blum DID announce at the business meeting in Denver that this is on the ASI Research Committee agenda for the coming year. So watch this list, Keywords, and your mailbox for further developments. I gather from Sandi's comments to me at the meeting that she has more than enough volunteers (including people who weren't at the breakfast) to work on the committee; but comments/suggestions - and making sure to complete and return the survey promptly when it's distributed! - will undoubtedly be welcome. Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, Wa. e-mail: cweaver@u.washington.edu voice: 206/930-4348 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 06:58:34 HST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Digest Sonia N. Isotov" Subject: Online Embedded Indexing Can someone suggest a good source for information describing on-line embedded indexing? ------------------------------------- Sonia Isotov Pacific Manuscript 715 South Kihei Road, #101 Kihei, HI 96753 808/875-1967 ------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 14:52:34 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Gale Rhoades Subject: Re: Online Embedded Indexing In a message dated 96-05-22 13:21:09 EDT, Sonia Isotov asked about embedded indexng. Nancy Mulvany's book _Indexing Books_ (Univ Chicago, 1994) has a section of computer-aided indexing including the what, why and how. (Starting page 254) Gale Rhoades ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 16:16:07 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Hutchins Subject: Re: Online Embedded Indexing Reply to: RE>Online Embedded Indexing Sonia, It's not clear to me from just that term exactly what you're interested in. Is it embedding indexing in HTML files for the Web? Or in SGML files for ? Or...? I've been building a prototype system for doing high-quality conceptual indexing (*) for electronic documents, and am about to extend it to the Web - so I have some information in this area. (and am very interested in more, myself) (*: human / "manual" / "intellectual" indexing mostly -- not to exclude, though, any automated process that can do well enough) -- Michael Hutchins (pmh@draper.com) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 17:05:42 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Do Mi Stauber Subject: reviewing page proofs of index For the first time in ten years, I've had a publisher offer to let me review the page proofs of the index before it's published. I jumped at the chance to have a little more input into the finished product, but I've never done this before. Do many of you get to do this? What should I be looking for? What changes might it be reasonable to ask for at this stage? I appreciate all input! Do Mi DStaub11@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 17:20:16 -0500 Reply-To: becohen@prairienet.org Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barbara E. Cohen" Subject: Re: reviewing page proofs of index Do Mi: I routinely ask for this, and I have several clients who allow me to review the page proofs. I look almost exclusively for formatting errors (bad indents or run-ins), failure to include "continued" lines, obviously typos or misprints, and bad breaks in the text. One of my continuing frustrations is the designer's "need" to break a short last page into 2 colums (sometimes meaning that the X, Y, or Z entries appear on 2 pages and in 3 columns). I usually ask to have the last page run as one column, if that will save a break. I also look for widowed and orphaned heasings and subheadings. I assure the editor that I will not re-edit the index at this stage-- just make sure the index I submitted was typeset clearly. Barbara -- Barbara E. Cohen Indexing & Editorial Services Champaign, IL ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 17:23:04 -0500 Reply-To: becohen@prairienet.org Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barbara E. Cohen" Subject: Re: reviewing page proofs of index P.S. Frm my last posting: I usually do not charge for the time it takes me to proof the index, because I am always so glad to have a chance to correct errors--I feel that as a courtesy to the client, I will proof my work for them. My original confirmation letter states that I will do this task at no charge. I believe that we are the best proofreaders of indexes, and I try to make sure that my overhead costs can cover this task, which generally takes less than an hour. I call the client immediately if I notice any problems, but also if there are no problems. In other words, the arrival of page proofs of an index have top priority in my office. B -- Barbara E. Cohen Indexing & Editorial Services Champaign, IL ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 18:37:56 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rica Night Subject: Re: Spam, glorious spam Carol Roberts wrote: >Has anybody here tried contacting aol management (and had any success) >regarding those magazine-subscription spams? They're all from aol >addresses, but of course the perpetrators are not recognized by the system >when you try to send a reply. Boy, do I miss Charlotte. Yes. I've forwarded each one (along with a strongly worded note) to an e-mail address that was passed along to COPYEDITING-L subscribers by a kind-hearted AOL member (Kat Nagel, I believe). Evidently spamming and other forms of unsolicited e-mail violate AOL's Terms of Service agreement and are cause for suspension. The address to use is TOSEmail1@aol.com. Here's the response I got from them. It's clearly a form letter--it assumes I'm a member, and I'm not--but at least it's something. > Dear Member: >Thanks for reporting the unsolicited e-mail you received. We'll look into it >and take the appropriate action. > >For confidentiality reasons, we cannot disclose information on actions we've >taken against other members, however, the resources available to us include >written warnings and account termination. > >Regards, >Lee >Community Action Team >America Online, Inc. Rica Night rnight@inforamp.net Freelance Copyeditor, Proofreader, Indexer, Trainer Toronto, Canada (416) 463-EDIT "There are thre mistake in this sentence." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 17:13:03 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: tminancy@WELL.COM Subject: Hillary's book Don't know if anyone mentioned this before, but I was in the bookstore and amazed to see that Hillary Clinton's book HAS NO INDEX. Is a letter to the white house perhaps in order??? Nancy. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 20:18:09 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LiuPalmer@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Update for information regarding the Liu-Palmer Thesaurus Construction Sy... We have worked with a number of thesaurus developers who use the complex network approach to thesaurus development. Songqiao Liu, the developer of TCS software, designed and programmed the system that has been used for nearly ten years to build and maintain the 40 facets now included in the Art & Architecture Thesaurus. The Professional Edition of TCS supports as many as 2,000 facets. However, many of the corporate information center users of our software prefer to develop a single list of controlled vocabulary terms. To meet their request for a low-priced system that would support a single hierarchy, we created the Basic Edition. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 20:38:05 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roger Palmer Subject: Apology Please accept my apology for sending corrections about our thesaurus software to this List Serve rather than directly to zeta.org.au/~aussi/thesauri.htm. I clicked on the wrong email address. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 20:49:13 +1100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Australian Society of Indexers Subject: Glenda Browne's paper Automatic indexing & abstracting on AusSI Web site NOW! Australian Society of Indexers is proud to mount Glenda Browne's article 'Automatic indexing and abstracting' covering computer aided indexing and Indexicon review on their Web site: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi more specifically http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi/browneg.htm This is from the Conference Indexing in the Electronic Age, Robertson, 20-21/4/96... I have enhanced it to have links to all the references she had in her original non-hypertext version ;)... I will be adding the rest of the ten or so papers on our site over the next few weeks. June is the deadline for authors so be looking in mid-June as I convert them into HTML... Cheers Dwight ------- Dwight Walker Webmaster Australian Society of Indexers +61-2-3986726 (h) +61-2-4393750 (w) W-F URL: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 08:08:40 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Seifert Subject: unsubscribe Please unsubscribe me from this list. Thank you. sseifert@fairfield.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 11:19:29 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Spam and Charlotte >Without slighting Charlotte in any way, I'd like to say that I regard >receiving the occasional piece of spam (which I delete without reading) as a >small price to pay for the liveliness of the Index-L list when she's away. >I don't understand exactly what happens to people on the list when Charlotte >lets the listserve go on automatic pilot, but her announcement that she's >letting the list go on automatic pilot seems to be a signal for indexers to >flock to Index-L with more than our usual gusto. There's a virtual >twittering among us, as we ask for advice, compare our practices, demand >salary surveys, and suggest usual reference sources. The whole exchange when >the listserve is on automatic pilot appears much freer, open, and lively. Do >others agree? To each her own. I've seen all of those same discussions happen when Charlotte is here; seems like, whenever the need arises. But when Charlotte isn't here, I've also seen the discussion drift onto nonindexing topics and other stuff that I'd rather see handled off-list. > BTW--for those of us who didn't make it to Denver--was there any >discussion of a salary survey there? I attended the chapter leaders' meeting, and that question did come up. An ad hoc committee is being formed. People who were vocal about it said that this would be a good time to do it, especially in light of the _Money_ magazine article. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | Life is good. Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | Milwaukee, WI | ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 14:14:01 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown <104571.560@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Slow pays I am currently having difficulty collecting a payment for an index. The 30 days elapsed about 19 days ago. The client is not disputing the payment, but they are dragging their feet. I don't have a warm fuzzy feeling about the excuses they have come up with. Fortunately, I executed a standard ASI agreement for the index, so I feel on solid ground for eventual payment. However, I wanted to find a way to expedite the payment, so I re-read the ASI agreement and was reminded that there is a clause for dispute arbitration, specifically that all disputes can be arbitrated by the American Arbitration Association. I called the St. Louis office of the AAA today and learned that the minimum cost of an arbitration (at least in St. Louis) is $500. That took the wind out of my sails. I often do indexes for which the gross payment amount is well under $500. I mention this for those of you who, like myself, felt a sense of security knowing that the arbitration clause was in the ASI agreement. I don't feel nearly as secure now. I am reluctant to engage the ASI in arbitration, first because there is not YET a refusal to pay, and second because I am not sure it would be fair to involve an already overtaxed staff in so doing. Any comments on that? Any comments in general? Perplexed in St. Louis Craig Brown The Last Word ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 10:27:03 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Simpson Subject: New Book Catalog System? I happened to be in a Goodwill store yesterday, and as always when I'm in such places, I had to peruse their books. Looking at the book section from across the room (it was all on one wall), I was amazed to realize that they had all their books arranged by color! I'm not a librarian, and new to indexing, but was this a roundtable topic that I missed in Denver? I must have rather bland tastes in literature, because I ended up with 2 brown books (1 fantasy, 1 SF), 1 white book (fantasy), and 1 brown that shades up into rainbow-colored (SF). I can't remember how they had the latter one filed -- must have been quite a challenge for them! Someone had obviously put a lot of effort into this, and the overall effect was quite remarkable. Not helpful, but remarkable nonetheless. It reminded me of the video catalogging system developed by one of the aliens on Third Rock From the Sun when he worked in a video store: he rearranged all the tapes into the catagories Movies I Liked, Movies I Didn't Like, and Movies I Haven't Seen. What could be simpler? The implications for indexers boggles the mind! Lin Simpson Student of the Universe (and obviously still learning!) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 11:32:27 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jill Marie Ramacciotti [TEMP]" Subject: Indexing on-line help Please disregard if you have never created an on-line index. ------ I am in charge of setting indexing standards for a group of about ten writers here at Sun. We each index our own section of work, which is compiled into one index for the entire on-line help volume. The index itself poses some problems. It is single level, and must be scrolled through, so it is rarely used. The index, although available in its traditional alphabetical form, is usually accessed via a search engine. A word or phrase is entered, and the hits are listed. Clicking on a hit brings up the appropriate page in the help volume. My question: Does anyone know of information on creating this type of index? I currently have one article, published in the April STC magazine. I have scraped together a set of guidelines, but would like to develop a more robust methodology. Also, if anyone finds this an interesting subject, let me know and I will pass on my info to you. Thanks, Jill Marie Ramacciotti SunSoft Developer Products jmarie@velvet.eng.sun.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 14:36:18 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: William Lively Subject: Re: New Book Catalog System? It is interesting to see an old book classification system resurrected. There was a time long ago when some European libraries placed their books on the shelf by color. I understand that also some libraries placed the book on the shelf by size. I have no idea how they determined which book within a certain size came first or last ... possibly the first book obtained was no. 1 and the 23rd book obtained was the 23rd. This does remind me of an incident many years ago when I was working in an elementary school library. A little boy came in the library and said, "I want to check out the book I read last year." [I hope he read more than one.] I replied, "Which book?" The boy said, "The good one." I hoped there was more than one good one, so I ask him, "Which good one?" His reply, "The green one." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 14:37:38 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lea Sandman Subject: Re: New Book Catalog System? Linda, I found your Goodwill story amusing. Unfortunately, this type of thing is not unheard of. Until very recently, a large university in my neck of the woods organized chemicals in their central storeroom alphabetically -- with near disastrous results. ( No, I don't know whether it was word-by-word or letter-by-letter.) It's amazing the "indexing" schemes people come up with. Lea ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 14:39:35 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INET.NET Subject: Re: Slow pays Craig Brown wrote: >I am currently having difficulty collecting a payment for an index. The 30 >days elapsed about 19 days ago. The client is not disputing the payment, >but they are dragging their feet. I don't have a warm fuzzy feeling about >the excuses they have come up with. > I've had some success with a net 30 days, -2% 14 days clause in my invoice. In the end though they're pretty much gonna pay you when they feel like it and it's part of the fun of being a freelancer IMHO. I commonly hear this story: oh gee we're sorry but our bookkeeper went on vacation and your check didn't go out until she got back. Can you imagine the conversation in which a bookkeeper called up the CEO of her company and explained that his/her paycheck would be a few weeks late cause they misplaced it!? I'd love to be the fly on *that* wall. Seriously though I have the number of accounts payable for my big clients and I'm not above calling up and pleading, cajoling, begging, using sob stories like I'll get thrown in jail for nonpayment of child-support, even flirting if I think that'll help. Fortunately I'm really good at living "hunkered down", and on some occasions I've even metal-detected for my meals for a week at a time. Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 13:31:02 CDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lonergan Lynn Subject: new book catalog system? Linda Simpson writes: I happened to be in a Goodwill store yesterday, and as always when I'm in such places, I had to peruse their books. Looking at the book section from across the room (it was all on one wall), I was amazed to realize that they had all their books arranged by color! I'm not a librarian, and new to indexing, but was this a roundtable topic that I missed in Denver? ===================== I am a librarian (and indexer and assistant editor of a periodical index). After six years as a community college librarian before this job, an arrangement by color actually makes (some) sense. Picture this: Thursday night, half an hour prior to closing, a student calls in. Said student is working on his research paper which is due at 8:00am on Friday. Student did NOT (of course) keep track of the sources used, consulted, plagiarized, etc. Student wants to know the bibliographic citation for the big red book in the reference section on philosophy. I didn't think this would be hard except for the fact that the spine had faded to beige--I did find the right book. Same scenario, different student--wants the green book on the shelves by the windows (circulating collection) about crazy people. I went right to it. So, there is a method (however ephemeral) to this arrangement. I find it admirable that someone did any sort of arranging at all. Of course, there is always size as an option--all the tall books in ascending order or, perhaps, from thin to thick? Lynn A. Lonergan Assistant Editor/Librarian AUL Index to Military Periodicals Air University Library Maxwell AFB AL 36112 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 14:46:59 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: Hillary's book In a message dated 96-05-22 20:33:43 EDT, you write: >Don't know if anyone mentioned this before, but I was in the bookstore and >amazed to see that Hillary Clinton's book HAS NO INDEX. Is a letter to the >white house perhaps in order??? Nancy. Hmmmm. Did you also know that the Whitewater jury has requested an index to the evidence in the case? Just saw it yesterday in the newspaper. Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 15:21:01 EST5EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Alain Vaillancourt Subject: Re: New Book Catalog System? > I happened to be in a Goodwill store yesterday, and as always when I'm > in such places, I had to peruse their books. Looking at the book > section from across the room (it was all on one wall), I was amazed to > realize that they had all their books arranged by color! I find alternate schemes of book or document arrangement fascinating, since ,though I was trained as a librarian, I have worked most of my life in Records Management, where we have to frequently devise classification and indexing systems to suit the needs of a narrow range of specialized users. A much narrower range than in a Special Library. Some parts of the population are color blind (like my former cataloguing professor in library school) and a large minority is so oriented towards audio stimulus that colors do not represent a significant retrieval factor for them. However, another large minority is so biased towards visual stimulus (I am included in this group) that, for them, colors are extremely handy for finding just about anything. Which is why I have found that records management or filing systems which make a rational use of color markers, along with numerical and alphabetical indications on the same markers, are superior to those which only use letters or numbers. By the way, I had encountered color arrangement of books (by parent volunteers in a grade school library) before and size arrangement is of course historical, but I have yet to hear of an arrangement by smell or by texture. That would be useless in a modern public library or university library, but it could be something interesting in the Rare Book Department of a University or in a used book store. Au revoir! Alain Vaillancourt ndgmtlcd@libertel.montreal.qc.ca ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 15:19:56 CDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Presley, Paula" Subject: Thanks to many; p.s. to medical indexers As some of you know, I could not attend the Denver conference. The day before I was to leave, I experienced a second retinal tear. My retina specialist performed a second laser surgery within a month and advised that I not travel. Thanks to all of you for your kind wishes. I went for a follow-up visit today; all is proceeding nicely. He said I should be able to play football or leap from tall buildings in about a month (ha!!). Now, for you medical indexers. Today the Dr. (upon discovering that it was an INDEXING conference that I missed last week) launched into praise of indexers and indexes and then complained loudly that a "wonderful multi-volume set he purchased --25 vols. I believe-- has no cumulative index, only indexes for ea. vol. He said it is a great resource, but he wastes too much time searching 25 indexes. I told him I would post the information and perhaps a medical indexer could contact the publisher (and that he should write to the publisher and complain). The set is *Walsh and Hoyt's Clinical Neuro-Ophthalmalogy, ed. Neil R. Muller, M.D., published by Williams & Wilkins. Again, thanks for your kind wishes. I look forward to hearing reports of the conference. ________________________________________________________________ Paula Presley FAX 816-785-4181 VOICE 816-785-4525 Associate Editor, Thomas Jefferson University Press Northeast Missouri State Univ. (Truman State University July 96) McClain Hall 111-L, 100 E. Normal St., Kirksville, MO 63501-4221 Internet: ppresley%nemomus@nemostate.edu ________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 15:27:54 +0300 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Virginia M. Mayo Black" Subject: Re: new book catalog system? >Linda Simpson writes: > >I happened to be in a Goodwill store yesterday, and as always when I'm > in such places, I had to peruse their books. Looking at the book > section from across the room (it was all on one wall), I was amazed to > realize that they had all their books arranged by color! I'm not a > librarian, and new to indexing, but was this a roundtable topic that I > missed in Denver? >===================== Although I am new to this list and have been "lurking" this post prompts me to write. It is possible that the book display at the Goodwill store was done by someone who is disabled and that this arrangement might have made some sense to this individual. And while it might be important for some to understand the intricacies of multiple hierarchy and multiple-level taxonomy, it might not be for this individual, for the store, or for folks looking for a bargain in a used book. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 06:34:23 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey Subject: Re: Spam, glorious spam At 11:39 20/05/96 -0500, you wrote: >Has anybody here tried contacting aol management (and had any success) >regarding those magazine-subscription spams? They're all from aol >addresses, but of course the perpetrators are not recognized by the system >when you try to send a reply. Boy, do I miss Charlotte. I punctiliously forward the headers and signatures of all junk mail addressed from AOL to the address on the letter below. Here is a copy of the first (and so far only) reply I received. Jonathan ------------------------------------------------------- From: TOSEMail1@aol.com Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 02:05:22 -0400 To: jonathan@magna.com.au Subject: Re: More SPAM apparently from AOL... Dear Member: Thanks for reporting the unsolicited e-mail you received. We'll look into it and take the appropriate action. For confidentiality reasons, we cannot disclose information on actions we've taken against other members, however, the resources available to us include written warnings and account termination. Regards, Lee Community Action Team America Online, Inc. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Jermey & Glenda Browne, Blaxland NSW Australia E-mail - jonathan@magna.com.au Web - http://www.magna.com.au/~jonathan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How come sticking sharp objects in people is OK for kids to see, but sticking blunt bits of people in people isn't? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 21:59:00 BST-1 Reply-To: jsampson@cix.compulink.co.uk Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John Sampson Subject: Re: Spam, glorious spam > Rica Night rnight@inforamp.net > Freelance Copyeditor, Proofreader, Indexer, Trainer > Toronto, Canada (416) 463-EDIT > "There are thre mistake in this sentence." Not being a copy editor perhaps I can risk asking - are there *really* three mistakes in that sentence? Am I that dim or are you having us on? _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 17:36:27 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: Indexing on-line help In a message dated 96-05-23 14:37:02 EDT, you write: >Does anyone know of information on creating this type of index? I currently >have >one article, published in the April STC magazine. I wrote an article on keywording help files that is in the latest copy of WinHelp Journal. I covered setting standards in it, as well as technical issues directly relating to WinHelp. You could probably get a copy by contacting the WinHelp folks at 206-784-5821 or at 75224.2761@compuserve.com. Hope that helps! Jan Wright ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 14:56:30 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Sonsie C. Conroy" Subject: Re: Slow pays In-Reply-To: <199605231821.LAA08268@spork.callamer.com> Craig, it sounds to me as if you have a collection problem, not an arbitration problem. There's nothing, really, to arbitrate unless and until the client states an objection to your work or a refusal to pay at all. You mentioned involving the ASI in the dispute. I don't know whether ASI even gets involved in these issues or not; I've never read the fine print in my membership docs to find out. But I wouldn't expect a lot more than a stern letter from them, given that we're not paying enough in dues to expect a full-on rescue attempt. I usually allow 30 days before I start phoning and politely inquiring about the status of my check. If another two weeks elapses with no money forthcoming, I follow up with a rather more serious letter to the effect that if I don't receive payment by such-and-such a date, I will have to take action to collect what is due. There's always a paragraph in there to the effect that if there are any problems with my work, to please contact me immediately, etc., etc., so that I know that what is at issue is merely the money and not the quality of the index. "Action" in most cases means taking the company to Small Claims Court in MY jurisdiction, not theirs...which you can do. I've had to do this twice (both time over an editing job, not an indexing job) and have won both times, and collected both times. I would not advise getting heavy like this until you believe you have exhausted all reasonable means of collection...and of course, expect to never work for these people again. But $500 is $500, and a rip-off is a rip-off. Good luck. Sonsie [sconroy@slonet.org] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 15:26:20 PST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Paul Carpenter Subject: Thre mistake >> Rica Night rnight@inforamp.net >> Freelance Copyeditor, Proofreader, Indexer, >> Trainer Toronto, Canada (416) 463-EDIT >> "There are thre mistake in this sentence." > > Not being a copy editor perhaps I can risk asking - are there > *really* three mistakes in that sentence? Am I that dim or are > you having us on? > > _John Sampson_ > John -- The three mistakes are: Mistake 1. The word "thre" is a misspelling. Mistake 2. The word "mistake" is a misspelling. Mistake 3. The third mistake was omitted. It reminds me of the following suite: - This sentence eschews all adverbs. - This sentence does without an object. - This sentence no verb. - _This_ is a rhetorical question?!? ........................Paul Carpenter ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 15:45:44 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Sonsie C. Conroy" Subject: Re: Spam, glorious spam In-Reply-To: <199605232131.OAA28431@spork.callamer.com> Yes, John, there really ARE three mistakes in that sig line...the third one being that there are only two mistakes! ;-> Sonsie [sconroy@slonet.org] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 09:32:00 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandra Henderson Subject: Re: new book catalog system? >>I happened to be in a Goodwill store yesterday, and as always when I'm >> in such places, I had to peruse their books. Looking at the book >> section from across the room (it was all on one wall), I was amazed to >> realize that they had all their books arranged by color! I'm not a >> librarian, and new to indexing, but was this a roundtable topic that I >> missed in Denver? When I worked in a reference section, we often had ridiculous conversations about the need for a library catalogue that, instead of Library of Congress subject headings and classification numbers, had a system that let people find the book they knew was "blue, on the top shelf near the door". I'm not suggesting any self respecting library would do it, but amazing how many users find books based on such criteria in any collection they've used before! - I must confess I find myself doing the same thing when looking for things on my bookshelves or in the public library Sandra in Canberra ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 17:47:17 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Sandford Pty Ltd Subject: Re: New Book Catalog System? I am enjoying this thread as I am also a librarian and records manager. I recall a newspaper library where all of the text books were arranged by the place of publication, what you might describe as a subjective geographical arrangement! I consult to small law firms and would generally recommend that a shelf arrangement based on their own practice areas is suitable where the collection is less than 500 or so. I think we can become very hidebound in arrangements. It is sometimes the same with indexes, I've known readers to complain that the words they were looking for weren't in the index, chances are that the topic is not covered in more than passing in the book itself. But the logic of the human mind sometimes gets very fixed ideas. Cheers, Susan ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss Susan Sandford, Susan Sandford Pty Ltd., Ph. (+61 3) 9482 2695 Fax (+61 3) 9482 6595 E-mail susans@vicnet.net.au ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 01:14:12 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: slow pays Craig Brown is concerned that he hasn't received payment in 49 days. I need a reality check here. MANY clients lately have been slow in paying--and these are clients of many indexers. Some take two months normally. Others drag their feet for three. Everyone has cash-flow problems. And if your invoice slips to the bottom of a pile, no one will notice. I think the best thing is to re-invoice, and then call to check that the second invoice was received, and to find out what the status is. When it gets REALLY late, accounts receivable friends say the best thing is to call every day. Squeaky wheel, etc. Good luck! Elinor ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 11:06:21 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Slow pays >I am reluctant to engage the ASI in arbitration, first because there is not >YET a refusal to pay, and second because I am not sure it would be fair to >involve an already overtaxed staff in so doing. Any comments on that? Any >comments in general? I agree that it sounds like you haven't yet got a case for arbitration, since the payment is not in dispute. Have you considered tacking on a late charge? Even if it's not in your contract with the publisher, that doesn't stop you from sending a letter stating that a late charge--so much per week or day or whatever--will be applied as of such and such date. Good luck. I don't suppose you'd want to post who these deadbeats are, so as to save others some headaches? Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | Life is good. Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | Milwaukee, WI | ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 11:17:10 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MCLAUGHB@CGS.EDU Subject: Indexers wanted I am posting this to the list at Suzanne's request. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Knowledge Exchange, a publisher of business books, audiobooks and=20 edutainment CD-ROMs, is in search of professional indexers to add to=20 its freelance talent pool. We are located in Santa Monica, Calif., and= =20 would prefer local indexers (LA and Orange County). Upcoming book=20 topics include a business encyclopedia, the health care industry ,=20 better management, etc. To be added to our pool of indexers, please=20 fax, mail or e-mail a resume, references and rates to: =20 Suzanne Finne Production Editor KNOWLEDGE EXCHANGE 1299 Ocean Ave. Suite 250 Santa Monica, CA 90401 (310) 394-5995 (310) 394-7637 FAX =20 E-mail: sfinne@kex.com ___________________________ Suzanne Finne E-Mail: sfinne@kex.com Tel: 310-394-5995 Fax: 310-394-7637 Knowledge Exchange, LLC 1299 Ocean Ave., Ste. 250 Santa Monica, CA 90401 ___________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 14:56:11 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Harper Subject: ASI chapter in Ohio? Hello! I am a wannabe indexer. I am a current LIS graduate student with several years experience in chemistry and corrosion engineering. I have been lurking on this listserve for 4 months and I have three things to say. - This is a very supportive and gracious group of people. The image of birds in a roost was delightful. - Charlotte does a wonderful service for the group. A less obvious contribution she makes (when on watch) is protecting the listserve from potentially dangerous posts recently described by North Lilly's post to Kent State SLIS personnel. - If anyone on this listerve would be interested in an Ohio ASI chapter, please email address and phone number. I will pass this information on to Maria Brathwaite who is the ASI contact listed for this area. Thanks. Sharon Harper Canton, Ohio ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 09:49:06 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: New Book Catalog System? In-Reply-To: <199605231937.MAA16581@spork.callamer.com> > Some parts of the population are color blind (like my former > cataloguing professor in library school) and a large minority is so > oriented towards audio stimulus that colors do not represent a > significant retrieval factor for them. However, another large > minority is so biased towards visual stimulus (I am included in > this group) that, for them, colors are extremely handy for finding > just about anything. I'm a very visual person, as well. I do organize my personal library by subject and author, but frequently will "scan" the shelves in memory to locate precisely where a particular book is. I use the color, size, spine design and typeface, etc., and usually have a pretty complete and accurate picture of the book in my head. > By the way, I had encountered color arrangement of books (by parent > volunteers in a grade school library) before and size arrangement is > of course historical, but I have yet to hear of an arrangement by > smell or by texture. That would be useless in a modern public > library or university library, but it could be something interesting > in the Rare Book Department of a University or in a used book store. I'm surprised that nobody mentions the absolutely intoxicating smell of really old books! Musty, yes, but almost a "perfume of age." The problem with cataloging by smell, though, is that books of the same general age will probably smell a lot alike, unless they were printed or bound using very different materials. Freshly-printed new books smell wonderful, too...just different. So you all can go ahead and call me strange if you like! I'm a "nose brain" sort of person. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 13:44:33 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah Lee Bihlmayer Subject: Re: Slow pays Craig Brown writes: >I am currently having difficulty collecting a payment for an index. The 30 >days elapsed about 19 days ago. The client is not disputing the payment, >but they are dragging their feet. I don't have a warm fuzzy feeling about >the excuses they have come up with. After 12 years of freelancing, I've developed a strategy that prevents this sort of thing from happening almost all the time. All of my contracts have a clause regarding my payment terms. The terms are net 15 days (for jobs under $1500) and net 30 days for larger projects. This clause states *very specifically* that if payment on an invoice is not received in my office on or before its due date, there is a 2% penalty for *each* day of delay--compounded daily. That's the first step. Most clients have their own slow-payment problems and therefore have no dispute with this clause. If a potential client balks, I consider it a warning sign and gracefully bow out of the project. Since payables departments *rarely* see contracts, the second step is to make contact with a person in the department as soon as the invoice is submitted and introduce myself. I explain my contractually-stipulated payment terms verbally. Then, 5 working days before the due date, I fax my payables contact a copy of the contract section that deals with payment terms and a penalty calculation schedule. For a $1,000 invoice, this schedule would look something like: Date Recd. Amount Due M 5/13/96 $1,000.00 T 5/14/96 $1,020.00 W 5/15/96 $1,040.40 T 5/16/96 $1,061.28 F 5/17/96 $1,082.43 S 5/18/96 $1,104.08 S 5/19/96 $1,126.16 M 5/20/96 $1,148.69 T 5/21/96 $1,171.66 W 5/22/96 $1,195.09 T 5/23/96 $1,218.99 F 5/24/96 $1,243.37 This method works almost flawlessly. 95% of the time the check arrives within 3 working days of my fax. Occasionally I get excuses and delays...and I just continue faxing updated penalty schedules and making phone calls until the check is in my hands. I never hear anyone telling me they won't pay the penalties, either...since the contract stipulates that they must. That's how I avoid this problem...YMMV. Sarah |"God is in the details." -- Frank Lloyd Wright| |Sarah Lee Bihlmayer * Intranet Documentation Specialist | | Indexing * Developmental Editing * Technical Writing | |Site Development * Content Creation * Content Management| | 415-207-4046 * sarahlee@contentmanage.com | ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 21:52:00 BST-1 Reply-To: jsampson@cix.compulink.co.uk Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John Sampson Subject: Re: Thre mistake > John -- The three mistakes are: > > Mistake 1. The word "thre" is a misspelling. > Mistake 2. The word "mistake" is a misspelling. > Mistake 3. The third mistake was omitted. Mistake 3 is surely an anti-mistake, or a meta-mistake, so [Fx: quibble, quibble, quibble etc.] _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 17:45:34 EST5EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Alain Vaillancourt Subject: Re: New Book Catalog System? > I'm surprised that nobody mentions the absolutely intoxicating smell of > really old books! Musty, yes, but almost a "perfume of age." The problem > with cataloging by smell, though, is that books of the same general age > will probably smell a lot alike, unless they were printed or bound using > very different materials. Ah, but that is usually the case of centuries old books. They have extremely different printing histories from one title to another and even between editions of a same title. > > Freshly-printed new books smell wonderful, too...just different. So you > all can go ahead and call me strange if you like! I'm a "nose brain" sort > of person. You may seem out of sync with most western societies, where deep emphasis of visual and/or audio elements is to be found at home and school, but most of us are born with five senses and they all come into play to some extent when retrieving information. Au revoir! Alain vaillancourt ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 15:15:16 PST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joy Thomas Organization: Cal State Univ Long Beach - Library Subject: Re: Thre mistake The three mistakes are: Mistake 1. The word "thre" is a misspelling. Mistake 2. The word "mistake" is a misspelling. Mistake 3. The third mistake is that "thre" should have been "two." ********************************************************************** Joy Thomas California State University, Long Beach, Library ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 17:20:58 -0500 Reply-To: becohen@prairienet.org Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barbara E. Cohen" Subject: Re: ASI chapter in Ohio? Note: Many members from western Ohio attend the Heartland chapter meetings in Indiana. You'd be most welcome to attend our next meeting (in June). Watch here for details. -- Barbara E. Cohen Indexing & Editorial Services Champaign, IL ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 18:44:53 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Leslie Frank Subject: Re: Slow pays Sarah, What I would like to know is what you do when you are signing a standard corporate contract for the larger publishers and are filling out their standard invoice forms. This is my present problem. I have a check about 2 weeks overdue. I called the Managing Editor (who I know from our in-house work together years back) and she told me she was still sitting on my invoice ( a standard co. invoice--they will not accept any others) and so I would not receive payment for a while. I do not stand in the best position because the contract was their co.-issued contract. I am presently creating 2 more indexes for this person, and I have been advised by some to stop work on the indexes until I receive payment. What do you (and everyone else) think? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 20:32:30 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Resent-From: MCCAINKW@DUVM Comments: Originally-From: Paul Carpenter From: Kate McCain Subject: Thre mistake Actually, it reminds me of learning to program in PL-1. The software would correct an error (incorrectly -- usually having something to do with a parenthesis) and then correct the correction, in two column increments, for the entire width of a Hollerith card. Kate McCain mccainkw@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >> Rica Night rnight@inforamp.net >> Freelance Copyeditor, Proofreader, Indexer, >> Trainer Toronto, Canada (416) 463-EDIT >> "There are thre mistake in this sentence." > > Not being a copy editor perhaps I can risk asking - are there > *really* three mistakes in that sentence? Am I that dim or are > you having us on? > > _John Sampson_ > John -- The three mistakes are: Mistake 1. The word "thre" is a misspelling. Mistake 2. The word "mistake" is a misspelling. Mistake 3. The third mistake was omitted. It reminds me of the following suite: - This sentence eschews all adverbs. - This sentence does without an object. - This sentence no verb. - _This_ is a rhetorical question?!? ........................Paul Carpenter ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 17:46:54 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah Lee Bihlmayer Subject: Re: slow pays Leslie Frank writes: >Sarah, > What I would like to know is what you do when you are signing a standard >corporate contract for the larger publishers and are filling out their >standard invoice forms. This is my present problem. I have a check about 2 >weeks overdue. I called the Managing Editor (who I know from our in-house >work together years back) and she told me she was still sitting on my invoice >( a standard co. invoice--they will not accept any others) and so I would not >receive payment for a while. I do not stand in the best position because the >contract was their co.-issued contract. I am presently creating 2 more >indexes for this person, and I have been advised by some to stop work on the >indexes until I receive payment. What do you (and everyone else) think? In a case like this, I draft a separate payment agreement of my own detailing the penalty terms. I explain the reasons why and say that it's just a fail-safe and I'm sure there will be no problem, but that I have to protect myself. I tactfully point out that I'm just a tiny one-person business and don't have the cash flow to loan large corporations thousands of dollars for a time period longer than previously agreed upon. I also make sure to include language in this type of agreement or in the payment clause in my standard contract that makes it clear that no revisions to the existing project or new project work will be accepted when payment is past due. Essentially, the gist of this is that I don't let the clients push me around. If they have a standard contract and invoice format, I follow it but ask for additional agreements of my own. In your particular situation, considering that the Managing Editor has been sitting on your invoice and ignoring your payment deadlines, I think you would be perfectly justified in stopping all work immediately. Since you contracted with her to do the work, she cannot hire anyone else--that would be a breach of contract on her part, since you did the work in good faith and delivered it on time. The standard company contract includes details on payment terms--correct? Therefore, her failure to process your invoice so that you can be paid on schedule also constitutes a breach of contract. If I were in this situation, I'd let the manager know that I can't commit to meeting her deadlines if she ignores my invoices. Payment dates are deadlines too--and my thinking on this is that it's a two-way street. Hope this helps. Sarah |"God is in the details." -- Frank Lloyd Wright| |Sarah Lee Bihlmayer * Intranet Documentation Specialist | | Indexing * Developmental Editing * Technical Writing | |Site Development * Content Creation * Content Management| | 415-207-4046 * sarahlee@contentmanage.com | ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 12:17:58 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: ASI chapter in Ohio? In-Reply-To: <199605241849.LAA09065@spork.callamer.com> Welcome, Sharon! I'm glad you're enjoying the group. I've found these people to be not only immensely helpful, but a LOT of fun as well. Good luck to you in your endeavors. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 18:08:02 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Sonsie C. Conroy" Subject: Slow Pay In-Reply-To: <199605250105.SAA17782@spork.callamer.com> > Leslie writes, > > > What I would like to know is what you do when you are signing a standard > > corporate contract for the larger publishers and are filling out their > > standard invoice forms. This is my present problem. I have a check about 2 > > weeks overdue. I called the Managing Editor (who I know from our in-house > > work together years back) and she told me she was still sitting on my invoice > > ( a standard co. invoice--they will not accept any others) and so I would not > > receive payment for a while. I do not stand in the best position because the > > contract was their co.-issued contract. I am presently creating 2 more > > indexes for this person, and I have been advised by some to stop work on the > > indexes until I receive payment. What do you (and everyone else) think? > > Welcome to the list, Leslie! It's so nice to see you here. (To all...I've > been urging Leslie to join our happy little band for some time, but she's > been extremely busy with business and family. We've worked together on > numerous occasions over the years.) > > Can you explain exactly what you mean by a "co-issued contract"? That's not > a term I'm familiar with. Also, did the ME give you a reason why she is > "sitting on" your invoice? > > First of all, though it's past time to do this on this job, I would always > insert some sort of payment paragraph, even in a standard contract issued > by a big corporate client. While Sarah's might be a bit steep, I would not > sign anything that did not at least refer to a payment schedule and some > sort of penalty for nonpayment or slow pay. > > Depending on why the ME is holding your invoice, I'd also be tempted to > suggest that you at least =threaten= to stop work on the remaining indexes. > It seems from what you've outlined that you're being taken advantage of, > and I bristle when that happens. Tell us more... > > =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 18:11:39 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Sonsie C. Conroy" Subject: Slow Pays In-Reply-To: <199605250109.SAA18089@spork.callamer.com> > > > Sarah, I'm very impressed with the terms you're getting, and how, apparently, > > your clients go along with your payment schedule with no serious problems. > > Do you issue your own contracts (with this clause included), or do you > > at least sometimes have to sign standard "boiler-plate" contracts? If > > you do occasionally deal with contracts issued by a client, how do you > > get your payment clause inserted? I'd love to learn how you've "trained" > > your clients to pay up so fast! > > > > =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 18:52:27 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah Lee Bihlmayer Subject: Re: slow pays Sonsie Conroy asks me: >Sarah, I'm very impressed with the terms you're getting, and how, apparently, >your clients go along with your payment schedule with no serious problems. >Do you issue your own contracts (with this clause included), or do you >at least sometimes have to sign standard "boiler-plate" contracts? If >you do occasionally deal with contracts issued by a client, how do you >get your payment clause inserted? I'd love to learn how you've "trained" >your clients to pay up so fast! I posted a response to Leslie's similar question on boilerplate contracts earlier this afternoon. There are a few key strategies I employ in dealing with clients: 1. I present myself as someone who is operating a business that provides a needed service and *not* a freelancer looking for work. I try to avoid using a resume--handouts, brochures, business cards are always better. A resume tends to pigeonhole a person as a job-seeker and seems almost to invite the sort of abuses that so many of my colleagues tell me about. 2. I put *everything* in writing. Every telephone conversation is confirmed by a letter, fax, or e-mail. If there is any miscommunication, I reference the previous memo or e-mail where the matter was discussed, and if the client can't find a copy, I send it again...just for their information. I educate myself about the client's chain of command and ask for org charts right at the outset, giving the reason that I need to understand my relationship to everyone in the group. If I ever get into a situation like Leslie's and find out that someone has been sitting on an invoice, I write a polite but stern letter saying that I'm going to have to stop work until payment is received and copy the person's boss. 3. I use an *intentionally* steep payment escalation schedule because it motivates clients to pay on time. Most projects are tightly budgeted, so this proves an effective strategy for the most part. When explaining my terms and policies, I am at all times very polite and respectful. I *always* say that I am sure there will no problem with prompt payment, but that I'm operating a business and must have predictable cash flow to meet my overhead. I take great care to ensure that I do not appear to have a chip on my shoulder. Clients usually *don't* object to my terms--their need for indexing services is too great to risk implying they might be slow payers, which would cause me to withdraw from the business relationship. Essentially, there's no "training" involved--just detailed, clear, written communication at every step of the process. I've developed these strategies by trial and error during 12 years of self-employment--which have included way too much time spent dealing with chronic slow-payment problems. YMMV. Sarah |"God is in the details." -- Frank Lloyd Wright| |Sarah Lee Bihlmayer * Intranet Documentation Specialist | | Indexing * Developmental Editing * Technical Writing | |Site Development * Content Creation * Content Management| | 415-207-4046 * sarahlee@contentmanage.com | ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 19:34:02 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Sonsie C. Conroy" Subject: Re: slow pays In-Reply-To: <199605250158.SAA21891@spork.callamer.com> Sarah, excellent strategies! I've always found keeping a paper trail to be probably the most important part of being in business...other than actually doing the work. I essentially do what you do: record every phone call in some permanent manner, cc everybody involved, and send memos or faxes or e-mail when there is a question or problem. I'm rarely asked for a resume, but I do have a handout listing my areas of specialty, my training and experience, and a list of books I've recently indexed. I agree that it looks more professional than a resume for people in our situation. Sonsie [sconroy@slonet.org] ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 09:41:20 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sanindex@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Slow pays Definitely sit on turning in the work until they give you payment for the earlier invoice. Unless, of course, they can tell you something is wrong with the earlier index. This is your only bargaining tool. Sandi Schroeder ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 13:53:01 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Fred Leise Subject: Re: Slow pays If you have signed additional contracts for the additional work started after not receiving payment, I would be very careful about not completing that work. If you do not complete them as contracted, YOU will be in breach of contract, even though they did not comply with their payment rights. Have you tried going to the editor's boss and explaining the problem? Has the editor explained WHY payment is not being processed. By all means, threaten action by a lawyer or collection agency. Pay $25 or $50 to have a lawyer draft a letter threatening suit or going to small claims court. Most companies do not want to have to undertake the cost of defending a suit, which will be much more costly than paying the original invoice. Whatever you do, be sure to write, phone, or complain EVERY DAY. That will let the editor know you mean business. Persistence and the squeeky wheel... Remember in the future that you can always change the contract that they send to you and add clauses about escalating costs for delayed payment. The contract they send you is not an unalterable document. And if they don't accept the delayed payment costs, that's a clear signal never to do business with them at all. Fred Leise "Between the Lines" Indexing and Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 15:03:56 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Slow pays It seems to me that there is a distinct lack of information -- and action -- here. If you do not know why the editor is still sitting on your invoice, it is most important to ask. It is a reasonable question. Invoices should be processed in a timely manner in a properly run business. If cash flow needs or company policy dictate that an invoice be held, that is the purview of the accounting department; it is not the editor's job to hold invoices. It is unconscionable for the editor to hold an invoice for weeks. Ask why it is still on his/her desk. This is a question that has no good answer, really. But request/demand (depending on the tenor of the answer) that it be processed immediately. Whatever the explanation, it is inappropriate business practice to sit on an invoice, and I'd say so. I see nothing wrong with telling the person this in no uncertain terms. Having gotten a stupid (yes, stupid!) answer like "the invoice is still on my desk", I wouldn't be too polite or ask for payment. I'd demand it. The product has been delivered, and barring a problem on their part with the product, they owe you payment. I'd ask if there is a problem with the index, and then if the answer is "no", demand payment immediately. And indicate your intention to pursue the matter up the chain of command. And I'd act very self-assured. These people are not doing you a favor. They're paying you money they owe you for a product you've already delivered. You do not have to beg for it! It is possible to be polite yet firm and businesslike. There is no need to be overly aggressive or threatening. Just firm. If you still haven't made enough progress, I'd give up dealing with the editor, and go over his/her head. I'd fax a copy of the invoice (never mind mail -- it's too slow, may not be received, etc!), marked "second invoice", with a cover note, to the accounting dept., requesting immediate payment. I'd also fax another copy to the president, or the managing editor, or whoever high up it suits you to contact. I'd make them aware of the business practices going on within their company. It will embarrass them, and put the editor in hot water. And it may just get you your money! Needless to say, it will put you in hot water too, and I wouldn't plan on retaining them as a client after that. But would you want to, after this kind of treatment? As for work in progress, that's another issue, which I will not offer an opinion on here. In case you're wondering, I have used this kind of tactic and it did work! After exhausting my sources with staff on invoices totalling a few thousand dollars, I called the head of the company, got no call back, and then composed a letter to him detailing the 5 invoices (for newsletter indexes, all end-of-year jobs), with their date of invoice and amounts, and a total. It was short, sweet, respectful, but firm and businesslike, and requested immediate payment. The head of the company called me to apologize, stating the he had no idea it took his people that long to pay freelancers, and he would have me paid immediately. And I was. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 17:38:17 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Leslie Frank Subject: Re: Slow pays To all who have answered, Thanks for all your responses. The reason, the very bad reason, the invoice was not processed was because it was an unusual index. The book had already been published without an index and the index is going into reprints. So, the excuse she gave me for having the invoice sit on her desk for over four weeks is, "I didn't know what to do with it." My internal answer is, "Well bleep, bleep, bleep find out!" My external answer was, "Please send it in and ask accounting to process it as quickly as possible." I followed with an email of more explicit instructions/requests. I (having once worked for the company) know that accounting will cut a check and FedEx it out ASAP if necessary. I pointed that out and asked that she request this particular service. I also asked that she contact me (email or voice) to confirm this. That was Wed. I have heard nothing. The worst part is, she did this to me in Nov/Dec. The issue was not resolved until she went away on vacation and her assistant got on the phone to accounting. I got the check in 2 days. Unfortunately, that time, at least she had authorized the invoice. This time the assistant can do nothing. The invoice has not been authorized. So, needless to say, after I finish these last two projects, I will not be working for her again. Because she is the managing editor, she would be responsible for signing all my invoices. In other words, it will be useless to do any editing or indexing work for this company.I suspect nothing will get through her in a timely manner. (And Sonsie, thanks for the welcome. I think you know very well who this is. When I wrote co.-issued contract, I meant company-issued.) My next invoice and letter (copies to her supervisor) are going to be faxed this weekend. We'll see what transpires. See ya! Leslie ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 18:25:01 +0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JOYCE NESTER Subject: Re: New Book Catalog System? At 10:27 AM 5/23/96 -0700 Lin wrote: > I was amazed to realize that they had all their books arranged by color! ... quite remarkable. Lin, Thanks for a great chuckle. After over 20 years of library work ... cataloging (15+ years) and public services, I have many times proposed the "First by color, then by size" classification system. It is truly amazing how many times someone actually will come into Special Collections looking for "the small blue book on heraldry ..." No kidding! Joyce Nester nester@vt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 22:01:40 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Allison Brooks Subject: Re: New Book Catalog System? >> It is truly amazing how many times someone actually will come into Special Collections looking for "the small blue book on heraldry ..." No kidding!<< And just think, to even come into Special Collections and make such a request puts one well into some tiny percentile of erudition. The rest of humanity is home watching reruns of 'Married with Children' and eating cheetos. Allison Brooks ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 16:29:49 CDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Gerry McKiernan Subject: Beyond Bookmarks Beyond Bookmarks: Schemes for Organizing the Web I have pleased to announce the establishment of a clearinghouse for Web sites that have applied or adapted standard or (non-standard) classification system or controlled vocabulary for organizing Net resources. Beyond Bookmarks is located at URL: http://www.public.iastate.edu/~CYBERSTACKS/CTW.htm Currently only classification schemes have been incorporated in the site, but sites that make use of LCSH and MESH will be added in the near future. Selected sites are organized by major type of organization (e.g. alphabetical, numeric, alphanumeric). With each respective group, sites are organized with the scheme used for organization (e.g. Dewey). Within a scheme grouping, sites are listed (and hotlinked) to the specific page which provides access to the noted classification system. I wish to express my thanks to all who contributed or recommended source sites for this project. Any and all additional sites that are appropriate for this clearinghouse will be very much appreciated. Gerry McKiernan Curator, CyberStacks(sm) Iowa State University and Coordinator, Science and Technology Section, Reference and Instructional Services Department Iowa State University Ames IA 50011 gerrymck@iastate.edu "Save the Time of the User" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 09:17:29 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bernie Goodman Subject: Test -- Ignore This is a test for debugging a mail delivery problem. Please ignore. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 09:59:40 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: James Brady Subject: Re: New Book Catalog System? This color thread reminds me of the system used by the bindery department of a major state university library (I won't say where, it was in the 60's anyway) for binding periodicals. Serials dealing with Africa, the Soviet Union, and Asia were bound in black, red, and brown respectively. Jim Brady brady@maine.maine.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 13:39:52 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Resent-From: Charlotte Skuster Comments: Originally-From: Pam Rider From: Charlotte Skuster Subject: Library issues etc. ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I am forwarding this from another list, because some here in the USA may wish to act on this legislation. > >I am not a professional librarian, but have been a friend of libraries all my >life. I feel that especially in a time of growing concentration of media and > the growing disparity between rich and poor, libraries may be the best hope >for our democracy. AndreaP >The following information is from ALAWON. ALAWON is a free, irregular >publication of the American Library >Association Washington Office. To subscribe, send the message >"subscribe ala-wo [your_firstname] [your_lastname]" to @ala.org>. ALAWON archives gopher.ala.org; select Washington >Office Newsline. Web page HTTP://www.ala.org/alawashington.html. >It is well worth subscribing to this as it contains information not easily >available elsewhere. Below are shortened alerts from ALAWON 5-32 and ALAWON >5-33: > HOUSE-SENATE CONFEREES BEGIN WORK ON BILL WITH LSTA > >House-Senate conferees met twice this week on the CAREERS Act, >H.R. 1617. This is the large bill with consolidations of >workforce development, vocational and adult education and >literacy programs. The bill also contains the reauthorization of >LSCA as the Library Services and Technology Act, to be >administered by an Institute of Museum and Library Services. > >In two late-afternoon sessions on Tuesday and Thursday, conferees >from the House Economic and Educational Opportunities Committee >and the Senate Labor and Human Resources Committee met to review >the work of their staffs and to take up issues that could not be >resolved by staff. The sessions, interrupted by floor votes as >legislators rushed to complete other measures before the Memorial >Day recess, got conferees through the opening speeches and >positioning, but not much further. No votes were taken on any >issue. > >The tentative staff agreement on the library and museum programs >is considered noncontroversial, and conferees were not considered >likely to spend much time in discussion of library issues. No >objections to these provisions were raised. However, conferees >do need to ratify this tentative agreement and resolve the few >outstanding issues such as the minimum allotment to go to each >state. > >Further meetings of conferees will be necessary, but these will >not take place until legislators return from a week of Memorial >Day visits and campaigning in home districts. As reports from >Library Legislative Day participants flow back to the ALA >Washington Office, it is clear that the Library Services and >Technology Act and the combination of library and museum programs >are considered noncontroversial by most congressional offices, >very likely to be supported when votes come up, and supported in >a bipartisan manner. > >ACTION NEEDED: The recess period (until June 11, for the Senate) >is a good time to make follow up phone calls, letters, or home >district visits. Continue the urgent message to complete action >on the Library Services and Technology Act, now in House-Senate >conference on H.R. 1617. Time is running out in this short >election-year session, but the approaching election also makes >legislators especially responsive to constituent requests. > >Other options to keep library programs going temporarily could be >taken up by Congress, and may need to be if all else fails, such >as authorizing for a brief period on an appropriations bill. >Appropriations are often approved very late, however. Further, >if Congress and the White House should keep sparring on funding >issues, Congress could extend funding for less than a full year. >Any temporary option would mean that the authorization process >would have to start from scratch in the next Congress because >bills do not carry over between each 2-year Congress. This would >leave library programs in limbo for the next funding cycle. None >of these options is as solid or desirable as getting the program >on the law books for a full 5 years. > >So, to repeat the message: Make sure that congressional offices >keep hearing from library advocates. Urge them to finish work on >LSTA, and not let this crucial stimulus to improvement of library >services through technological innovation and outreach services >lapse. > >Thanks to visits made by library supporters, it seems that H.R. >2807, the Youth Development Community Block Grant, has added many >more names to the sponsor list. It appears that bill sponsors >are pressing for a hearing date with the House Economic and >Educational Opportunities Committee sometime in June. The bill >seeks to consolidate many programs for youth ages 6-18 into a >community-based block grant which would be targeted to that age >group for prevention programs. > >ACTION NEEDED: If your member of Congress has signed on to the >bill as a result of your legislative day visit, please remember >to thank him or her. If the promise to co-sponsor was made but >not as yet accomplished, a pleasant reminder may be in order. >The House bill is similar to S. 673, which has not yet been voted >on by the full Senate. > >The following is a list of sponsors of the House bill, H.R. 2807: > >J.C. Watts (R-OK) Main Sponsor >Richard Baker (R-LA) >James Barcia (D-MI) >Bob Barr (R-GA) >Sanford Bishop (D-GA) >Dick Chrysler (R-MI) >Bob Clement (D-TN) >Gary Condit (D-CA) >Pat Danner (D-MO) >"Kika" de la Garza (D-TX) >Lincoln Diaz-Balart (R-FL) >Calvin Dooley (D-CA) >Eni Faleomavaega (D-AS) >Chaka Fattah (D-PA) >Victor Frazer (D-VI) >Martin Frost (D-TX) >Sam Gibbons (D-FL) >Benjamin Gilman (R-NY) >Gene Green (D-TX) >Duncan Hunter (R-CA) >Bob Inglis (R-SC) >Jesse Jackson, Jr. (D-IL) >Eddie Bernice Johnson (D-TX) >Jim Kolbe (R-AZ) >John Lewis (D-GA) >Zoe Lofgren (D-CA) >Nita Lowey (D-NY) >Thomas Manton (D-NY) >Don Manzullo (R-IL) >John McHugh (R-NY) >Cynthia McKinney (D-GA) >Michael McNulty (D-NY) >Jan Meyers (R-KS) >Susan Molinari (R-NY) >Sue Myrick (R-NC) >Richard Neal (D-MA) >Eleanor Holmes Norton (D-DC) >Charlie Norwood (R-GA) >Ed Pastor (D-AZ) >Donald Payne (D-NJ) >Thomas Petri (R-WI) >Jack Quinn (R-NY) >Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R-FL) >Marge Roukema (R-NJ) >Jose Serrano (D-NY) >Chris Shays (R-CT) >Chris Smith (R-NJ) >Gerald Solomon (R-NJ) >Steve Stockman (R-TX) >James Talent (R-MO) >Mac Thornberry (R-TX) >Edolphus Towns (D-NY) >Nydia Velazquez (D-NY) >James T. Walsh (R-NY) >Curt Weldon (R-PA) > >The coalition of youth organizations in favor of the legislation >is suggesting a call-in day on Thursday, May 30, for further >sponsorship and for movement on both House and Senate bills. The >capitol switchboard number is: (202) 224-3121. >___ > > Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@powergrid.electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com http://www.electriciti.com:80/~prider/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 11:02:19 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: test: Please ignore test Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@powergrid.electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com http://www.electriciti.com:80/~prider/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 15:10:43 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Ebron, Christine" Organization: Cognos Incorporated, Ottawa Canada Subject: Indexing courses/workshops Hi Everyone, I have just joined this list, so I apologize if my question repeats some recent discussions. I am looking for indexing training (online and hard copy documents), somewhere between the east coast and the middle of Canada or the US. I have been promised some training, but so far have not located something that will be approved. I have contacted Lori Lathrop and she has a one-day workshop next month in Conneticut. Unfortunately, the date falls near the tail end of our current project, and being away from the office at this time is very rare. If anyone knows of any other courses or workshops that are coming, could you please forward me a little information. You can reply directly to me at: christine.ebron@cognos.com Thanks! Christine Ebron Cognos Inc Ottawa, Ontario ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 14:37:30 CDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lonergan Lynn Subject: SLA in Boston Are you going to the Special Libraries Association Annual Conference in Boston 8-13 June? I'd like to meet anyone else who is an indexer/librarian or librarian/indexer. I will be at the Sheraton Boston Hotel & Towers 9-14 June. You may reply to me off the list at: llonergan@max1.au.af.mil Thank you. Lynn A. Lonergan Assistant Editor/Librarian AUL Index to Military Periodicals Air University Library Maxwell AFB AL 36112-6424 (334)953-2504 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 20:58:35 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: frank exner Subject: Thanks and a question for the indexing community Folks, I have been lurking here for a while and am really enjoying it. In fact, with your unknowing help, I was able to get and complete my first project. Published in April, it is the index to _Guiding the reader to the next book_, edited by Kenneth Shearer (Neal-Schuman,Inc). Thanks to everyone. I have a question that has been bothering me, and I would like to toss it out to you. Recently I followed a locator to a text page and found two relevant passages, separated by irrelevant material, on the same page. Since I am basically paranoid, I wonder if this has happened to me before when I only saw the first passage? If so, what information have I missed? And how many users might have missed significant information for the same reason? A three part question derives from this: 1. Has anyone out there in cyber-indexland heard about similar instances? 2. If so, have you tried to address the issue and how? 3. What have been your results? Please send your answers to me at: fexner@nccu.edu or fexner@ntrnet.net Thank you very much! Frank Exner, Little Bear