Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 07:48:11 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9702C" To: Julius Ariail ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 00:40:54 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PilarW@AOL.COM Subject: Washington, DC Index Editing Workshop Editing Indexes for Quality and Usability Saturday, March 29, 1997 National Agricultural Library, Room 1400 Beltsville, MD (From I-95, take exit 25 North on Route 1 to Beltsville. NAL is the tall building on the right. ) The Washington, DC Chapter of the American Society of Indexers is delighted to invite you to another workshop presentation by Lori Lathrop, of Lathrop Media Services, Idaho Springs, CO. Her workshop is on editing indexes, and it is pretty intense. We hope you'll join us! 8:30-9:00 Registration/Coffee, croissants WORKSHOP AGENDA: Warm-Up Activity Indexing Concepts & Terminology Tips for Creating a Great Index Using an Editing Checklist Editing an Index Evaluating Quality and Usability Wrap-Up Activity 5:00-5:30 Reception/Networking Refreshments and Buffet Luncheon will be provided. DC/ASI annual meeting/Officers' meeting during lunch. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- REGISTRATION FORM Cost: $40 for ASI members, $52 for non-ASI members. Registration includes handouts, drinks, snacks, and buffet luncheon. Register by Friday, March 21, to ensure lunch. Name: _________________________________ Telephone: __________________________ Mailing address: ________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________________ Please make checks payable to Washington, DC Chapter, ASI. Mail checks and registration forms to Enid Zafran, DC/ASI, Bureau of National Affairs, 1231 25th Street NW, Room N-476, Washington, DC 20037. Confirmations will be mailed for registrations postmarked by March 21, 1997. On-site registrations will be accepted as space permits. Refunds are subject to a $5 handling fee. F or more information, call DC/ASI Chair Enid Zafran at 202/452-4301. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 10:00:37 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Luc Dubois Organization: Syndetics Research Subject: Re: Simple programming languages In-Reply-To: <199702140133.CAA19162@nic.inbe.net> > I second the motion for SNOBOL. I taught it myself when I was in college to > do string manipulations for a citation frequency study. It's strong suit is > exactly the type of string manipulation that the pattern matching in CINDEX > starts to get into. Given your experience, I don't think it would take too > long to pick it up. You should also investigate Icon, which is in a way the successor to Snobol(4), by the same authors, Ralph and Madge Griswold. It has more of a Algol-like syntax and might be easier for you, coming from a PL/1 background. The main Icon page is at http://www.cs.arizona.edu/icon/www/ where I suppose you'll also find Snobol (back up two directory levels). >From the Icon FAQ: ==================================================================== 1. What is Icon? Icon is a very high level general-purpose programming language with extensive features for processing strings (text) and data structures. Icon is an imperative, procedural language with a syntax that is reminiscent of C and Pascal, but its semantics are at a much higher level than those languages. Icon has a novel expression-evaluation mechanism that integrates goal-directed evaluation and backtracking with conventional control structures. It has a string scanning facility for pattern matching that avoids the tedious details usually associated with analyzing strings. Icon's built-in data structures include sets and tables with associative lookup, lists that can be used as vectors or stacks and queues, and records. Icon is a strongly, though not statically, typed language. It provides transparent automatic type conversion. For example, if an integer is used in an operation that requires a string, the integer is automatically converted to a string. Several implementations of Icon have high-level graphics facilities with an easily programmed window interface. Icon manages storage automatically. Objects are created as needed during program execution and space is reclaimed by garbage collection as needed. The sizes of strings and data structures are limited only by the amount of available memory. 2. What is Icon good for? As a general-purpose programming language with a large computational repertoire, Icon can be used for most programming tasks. It's at its best when used as a prototyping tool, for processing text, and when ease of programming is needed for experimental and research applications. Paradoxically, Icon is used most often for short, one-shot tasks and for very complex applications. Icon is designed to make programming easy; it emphasizes the value of programmer's time and the importance of getting programs to work quickly. This explains its usefulness for prototyping as well as the apparent paradox of applicability to simple and complex applications. 3. Where did Icon come from? Icon is the latest in a series of high-level programming languages designed to facilitate programming tasks involving strings and structures. The original language, SNOBOL, was developed at Bell Telephone Laboratories in the early 60s. SNOBOL evolved into SNOBOL4, which is still in use. Subsequent languages were developed at The University of Arizona with support from the National Science Foundation. Incidentally, Icon bears little physical resemblance to SNOBOL4, although it has similar objectives and many similar capabilities. ==================================================================== Side note: C is not exactly a "new" language, given that it is now in its 24th year. If you're uncomfortable with it's syntax, you might not be that happy with Awk or Perl either. But that's just a personal opinion :-) Luc -- Syndetics Research | Authors of Synema(tm) Director (c) 1992-1997. Herderstraat 1 | Thesaurus construction software for the 3740 Bilzen - Belgium | Information Retrieval industry (Mac-only). ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 09:27:15 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Prakash Capen Subject: Re: What else we do As someone just learning the art of indexing, I have lurked quietly and have been very well behaved for 2 months; but this is something to which I can reply with moderate intelligence. So, a bit of what I do: 1. I've been a freelance copyeditor for years (also, used to be editor-in-chief for a small publishing house). 2. .I teach stress management and write articles related (in one way or another) to stress management. 3. Occasionally produce newsletters or manuals. 4. Dote on my marvelous Tibetan Terrier and join him for nice, long walks in the Virginia countryside. 5. Learn about the art & business of indexing, hoping to add that to the services I offer and promote. 6. Like many of you, dream about all the other things I would do if I just had a little more time. Prakash S. Capen Irresistible Pages Buckingham, VA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 15:57:03 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM Subject: editing down Hello All, I am facing a problem I have never encountered before, drastically editing down an index. I received a message a few days ago that the space for the index is minimal and I'm finding I have to cut several hundred lines from the index (300-400). It was due yesterday, now due Monday. Your opinions please, what have you done if you have had similar problems? And, how long a string of page references do you consider ridiculous. I'm going to have to cut a lot of subentries to make this work, which means that I'm going to have main entries followed by relatively long strings of page references. Any guidelines you follow? Or, when faced with this do you just start to close your eyes and cut (and hope no one sees your name in the back of the book) Thanks, Leslie LLF Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 18:55:30 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Laura M. Gottlieb" Subject: Cutting an index Leslie and all-- I usually resent finding out at the last minute that an index has to be drastically cut--and it *always* takes much more time than I like, and usually results in my losing money on the deal--but I have to admit that sometimes I'm very pleased with the results. As someone who tends to over-index books, I often like the lean, trim look of indexes that I've had to cut. Anyway, I imagine that what you cut depends a good deal on the content of the book you're indexing. Since I usually index university press books in the humanities and social sciences, I can only speak to how I would cut an index in one of those fields. I would eliminate all titles of books, articles, poems, etc. (assuming that they can be located under the author's name in the index); most names--especially names of scholars who are cited but whose ideas are not discussed in depth; I would evaluate all cross-references, keeping only the most essential; eliminate references to all specialized terms that are not discussed at any length; and, in general, keep only the concepts that comprise the main structure of the index (i.e., only concepts that support or lead to the main points of the argument in the book). If you're not indexing a book in the humanities or social sciences, these tips may not be helpful. Good luck!--Laura Moss Gottlieb, Freelance Indexer ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 20:16:34 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Cutting an index Laura (and anyone still interested in commenting), Thanks for the tips. This is a software manual. What I'm finding that I'm doing is cutting subentries more than anything else. It's possibly true that I have a tendency to overindex:-D, but I think this is going to really challenge me as far cutting down goes. I just hate to have long strings of locators under a single main entry. That's what I'm facing right now. I've been able to control myself while indexing the new material (I wasn't done indexing the book when I received the news), but I still have to trim a lot of old material. Anyway, here goes. Back to the old grind. Leslie LLF Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 22:58:33 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: editing down I just read your message, Leslie, and will not add much to this note that I started a few hours ago. The fact that your book is a software manual makes alot of what I say completely irrelevant to your case, but maybe it will help someone else down the road. I agree with what Laura has to say on this in regard to the social sciences and humanities. I will add a few other comments, though. I have had to cut an index only once in a major way, but in general what I would do in cutting an index is the following: Cut out all headings possible with one page locator following the heading. (In your case, this may not work, to say the least, because of different software functions, features, etc.). If you have something like the following, though, background tiling, 150-155 and also tiling background, 150-155 you could knock one out, but should try to do the same thing consistently throughout, if possible, with other similar concepts/relationships. Cut out names of scholars whose work is cited in the text, but without substantial discussion (at least a paragraph). Bring up all subheads that have only one locator and place page number after heading, trying to have no more than 6-7 unanalyzed locators. If the book is a law book, cut out citation references in the Table of Cases and just include the case name and page locators. (Check first with the author/editor.) In science-related materials, do not double post common names and scientific names, but use whichever name the author uses in the text (i.e., if the author uses the common name followed by the scientific name in parentheses, follow the common name with the scientific name in parentheses, but do not have a separate entry for/cross reference from the scientific name to the common name). Good luck. At 03:57 PM 2/15/97 -0500, you wrote: >Hello All, >I am facing a problem I have never encountered before, drastically editing >down an index. I received a message a few days ago that the space for the >index is minimal and I'm finding I have to cut several hundred lines from the >index (300-400). It was due yesterday, now due Monday. Your opinions please, >what have you done if you have had similar problems? And, how long a string >of page references do you consider ridiculous. I'm going to have to cut a lot >of subentries to make this work, which means that I'm going to have main >entries followed by relatively long strings of page references. Any >guidelines you follow? Or, when faced with this do you just start to close >your eyes and cut (and hope no one sees your name in the back of the book) >Thanks, >Leslie >LLF Editorial Services > > ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer cbertel@usit.net http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 23:44:17 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: editing down I also hate editing down. Lots of good guidelines from other people. I would add that I try to prefer making entries less useful to eliminating them: in other words, I would make longer strings of page references (wince) rather than take out a cross reference that might be the only way someone could find their way in to the concept they were looking for. Do Mi Stauber ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 23:46:30 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: ordering from Macrex Susan wrote: > >Helen, Try to be patient. I had the same thing happen to me and I had sent >in an order via the postal service. It took almost 2 weeks for the order to >get there. I communicated with Gale by phone and fax and she responded very >quickly. You might try that method. Believe me, she was wonderful once I >made contact. I want to second this. The support for Macrex is so good, I can't believe it. Gale has been right there for me over and over, with no waiting time. I would assume this was a post office mixup or something--definitely not my experience in eight years of using Macrex! Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 23:59:27 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Re: editing down Cynthia wrote: >In science-related materials, do not double post common names and scientific >names, but use whichever name the author uses in the text (i.e., if the >author uses the common name followed by the scientific name in parentheses, >follow the common name with the scientific name in parentheses, but do not >have a separate entry for/cross reference from the scientific name to the >common name). > On a similar vein, again realizing this will have little use to you as your book is sofware-related, in chemistry texts I sometimes simply things like: m-xylene, 215 o-xylene, 215 p-xylene, 215 to: xylenes, 215 It's possible you have some software titles wth similar names from the same company that can be put together. Also you can consider deleting all the "Microsoft Word, see Word" type cross-references and have a line in your index note to the effect that company names are not used as a modifier with software titles. Granted this suffers from the problems people pointed out a while back when I made this statement in another thread, like "noone pays attention to the index notes", but what you have to do in this type of crisis situation is prioritize index items. Alternative entry points become a luxury that may not be affordable when space is a limitation. Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 02:03:09 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: EMickiT@AOL.COM Subject: Re: editing down In a message dated 97-02-15 22:47:06 EST, Cynthia Bertelsen writes: << The fact that your book is a software manual makes alot of what I say completely irrelevant to your case, but maybe it will help someone else down the road. I agree with what Laura has to say on this in regard to the social sciences and humanities. >> It is helping someone else down the road. (The Hollywood freeway to be precise. :-) ) I am indexing a book in the social sciences and and luckily only have to shorten it a bit. Thanks for all the help and I'll be watching to see what other indexer's advise. E. Micki Taylor Los Angeles ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 08:32:45 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Cutting an index In a message dated 97-02-15 20:18:45 EST, Leslie wrote: > This is a software manual. What I'm finding that I'm > doing is cutting subentries more than anything else. It's possibly true that > I have a tendency to overindex:-D, but I think this is going to really > challenge me as far cutting down goes. I just hate to have long strings of > locators under a single main entry. That's what I'm facing right now. I've > been able to control myself while indexing the new material (I wasn't done > indexing the book when I received the news), but I still have to trim a lot > of old material. Leslie, I don't envy you one bit, having to do this constantly for one publisher of computer books that gives me only what's left over in the last signature for the index. Just the other day I uploaded a 10-page index to a 500+ pager on a complex software package. (OTOH, I was once asked to fill 23 pages with an index to a lightweight 200 page book.) OK, here's what I do. Usually I know before I start the index how limited I am for space. So, I index more lightly than usual. However, if you index too lightly, your index doesn't have enough content and you'll end up with a mess. Some hideously draconian decisions are made in the process. I also do the following: I delete double-posted gerund entries (e.g., deleting, editing, etc.). Since they're all double-posted, this gets rid of a lot of entries. Unfortunately, this makes the index more difficult to use because the material referred to in the "gerund entries" is often hidden in a broader page range with a more general subentry under the "object" heading. I delete double-postings of acronyms and even See references, usually from the spellout as authors tend to use the acronym more heavily in the text. I've stopped double-posting extremely common acronyms, such as RAM, as a matter of course. (Who ever calls it "random access memory" these days, anyway?) Double-posted acronyms, IMHO, are among the worst space-eaters in a tight index and computer, technical and scientific books are chock full of them. Other space-eaters are symbols and entries beginning with numbers, both of which are usually double-posted or See referenced. When possible, I create a see reference from symbols or numbers to other entries that aren't double-posted. For example, in the index I mentioned at the beginning of this post, I had entries for things like 1-bit images, 8-bit images, 24-bit images, and 32-bit images. For "1-bit images", I was able to create a See reference to "bitmap images" and, for the 32-bit images, a See reference to "CMYK color model". This eliminated entries both under the numerically-sorted and under the alpha-sorted locations for these entries. Of course, you still end up with three headings for each of them, however, I had many subentries for "bitmap images" and "CMYK color model" that didn't have to be double-posted. I also avoid "classified" subentries, which also consume tons of space because they often force the creation of subsubentries which tend to roll over in tight columns, especially when you have several three-digit locators or several page ranges. Instead, I use general cross references; "e.g., color models. See also specific color models". The heading "color models" was reserved for subentries referring to color models in general. Often, when creating general See also references, there is a subentry or locator that will take readers to a page that will list the types of items that would have otherwise been classified--in case they don't know what the "specific" items are in the target. (I do this as a matter of course, not just when space is tight.) As you're doing, I subsume subentries into main headings, trying to keep the string of undifferentiated locators to no more than five. However, I've had to go with as many as seven, which gets really ugly. I look for subentries that are long enough to potentially roll over onto another line and reword them. Though I do this as a matter of course, when space is really tight, the resulting subentries can become so terse as to be almost as user-unfriendly as an undifferentiated locator. If the index is *still* too large, which easily happens when you have only 10-12 pages for a 900-page technical tome, then I start the agonizing process of cutting substance, being thankful that my name isn't in the book as the indexer. Here's a tip. Ask your client what margins and paper size (usually smaller than 8.5 x 11", BTW) they use. Also ask if you can go three columns across and down to 7 points if necessary. I have a macro in Word, set up for the client that rarely gives me enough space and has a commonly used image area. While cutting the index, I frequently dump the RTF file from Macrex into Word, run the macro, and can tell within a few seconds if I'm within the space allotted or if I need to cut more. (The macro formats the index as it will be printed with the proper margins and paper size, defaulting to two columns across at 9 points. It only takes a few seconds to take it to three columns and down in point size.) Because publishes often use large letter headings, I make sure to cut until I have at least a column or two columns empty on the last page of the index to give them room to play with it. (Going into Page Layout view or Print Preview will tell you this.) Hope this helps. Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 11:25:03 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: Cutting an index Hi Leslie, One thing you can consider is dumping all commands and dialog boxes out of the index, and using gerunds instead. Radical, but I actually have some clients who prefer it. Instead of: Save command, 14 Save As command, 14 Saving new documents, 14 old documents, 15 other documents, 15 You could do Saving documents, 14-15 This works nicely when the command name is like the function it is doing. If, however, the command name is nothing like its function, it is a judgement call. You could make the entire index function-oriented, and dump all dialogs, commands, menus, tools, etc. It does save room, but must be done with care. One reason my clients who like it like it is because they can then change the names of their commands, tools, and dialogs up until the last moment, and the index still works. Indecisive bunch. Regardless, I would definately nuke all lists of commands under the main head "Commands", all lists of dialog boxes under the main head "Dialog boxes", all tool names under a main head "Tools," and all menu names under "Menus." If you have such sections. Commands Edit command Find command Save command As long as you have editing, finding, and saving, nuke sections like the above. Jan Wright ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 10:39:00 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: Saving computer files At 04:55 AM 2/8/97 -0500, you wrote: >Like Leslie, I don't do nearly as many indexes per year as Janet, but still >over the past few years they have mounted up a bit. I once had a big >clear-out and rashly deleted all my old index files, and now regret it, as >I don't keep hard copy - I haven't the storage space (and only rarely get >complimentary copies of books I have indexed from publishers). Not only >have I occasionally been asked to update an index for a new edition, or do >an index to a book in the same series, but I sometimes want to refer to an >old index to see how I tackled a particular problem, or how many entries it >contained, etc. > >Christine In following this thread (yes, I know I'm several days behind in my reading...!), I'm kind of surprised that so many of you *don't* keep some kind of copy of indexes completed. I do this stuff part-time, maybe 10-12 book indexes a year, but I've been working at it for about 15 years now, so my credit list is lengthy. And I have (I think) copies of every one I've ever done for pay. Maybe it's the pure animal satisfaction of creation, I don't know. :) Like most of you, I only get comp copies from a couple of publishers (Univ of Calif Press is *very* good about that, bless them), but I'm also a librarian in the (so-called) real world, so requesting copies of the books I've indexed by Inter-Library Loan is second nature. I make photocopies at Kinko's and they go in the back of the bottom file drawer -- until it fills up, and then they go in a box in the closet. I like to see what the editor or the author have done to my carefully considered subheadings (turned them into a string of 30 undifferentiated page numbers, sometimes...), and how they've reworded things. I also keep a "job sheet" on every commission, with notes and details from the the first phone call until I receive and deposit the check, and that includes notes to myself regarding new editors (there's *always* new editors) and impossible instructions from first-time authors. And I keep a final copy of both the Cindex file and the formatted WordPerfect file on floppies, too, since I've been asked to do revised editions of perhaps half a dozen books over the years. Would you say I'm pathologically organized? Maybe that's what degrees in library science and archives management will do to you! Mike Michael K. Smith mksmith1@swbell.net Smith Editorial Services CIS: 73177,366 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ It doesn't TAKE all kinds, we just HAVE all kinds... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 10:39:03 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: Internet Phone Charges At 03:24 PM 2/9/97 -0800, you wrote: >I *think* the FCC "threat" below is a hoax. It has appeared (in several >versions) on different lists over the last few months. It appears to be >joining the "Nieman Marcus Cookie" and "Good Times Virus" in the "Internet >Urban Legend" category. Does anybody else know more? > >Susie Stephenson >mss@unixg.ubc.ca > >I am writing you this to inform you of a very important matter >currently under review by the FCC. Your local telephone company has >filed a proposal with the FCC to impose per minute charges for your >internet service. They contend that your usage has or will hinder the >operation of the telephone network. It is my belief that internet >usage will diminish if users were required to pay additional per >minute charges. The FCC has created an email box for your comments, >responses must be received by February 13, 1997. Send your comments to > > isp@fcc.gov > >and tell them what you think. Every phone company is in on this one, >and they are trying to sneak it in just under the wire for litigation. >Let everyone you know about this one. Get the e-mail address to >everyone you can think of. > > isp@fcc.gov Well, I don't know whether the mailbox thing is for real or not, but the regional phone companies definitely *are* worried about the load being placed on the system (and their projected revenues) by steadily increasing modem usage. My fiancee is on the inside of Bell South, in a managerial/technical capacity, and when I asked her about this a few months ago, she sat me down and tried to explain switching theory. (I still don't understand it all; my field is history, not physics...) But the crux is that the average voice-call lasts something like 3 minutes, which can be handled just fine at a flat monthly rate. But online connections average 30-40 minutes, and some people, of course, leave their connection up for many hours at a time (I do it myself sometimes). While that connection is open, the "switch" (or whatever it actually is...) has to remain open. And there's a finite number of switch connections available, in the real world. Subscribers in places like NYC have been paying for phone usage in defined "units" for some years now. You can't get something for nothing, folks. Sorry.... Mike Michael K. Smith mksmith1@swbell.net Smith Editorial Services CIS: 73177,366 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ It doesn't TAKE all kinds, we just HAVE all kinds... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 11:14:46 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: Saving computer files At 07:39 PM 2/10/97 -0500, you wrote: >This has been an interesting thread. My own practice is to buy relatively >inexpensive floppies and stuff as many projects onto a single disk as I >can. I average about three projects per disk. God, you still *buy* floppies?! I just erase and relabel all the AOL, GNN, and Prodigy disks that come my way; must have 40 or 50 of the silly things by now -- but I haven't bought a floppy in at least a year! :) Mike Michael K. Smith mksmith1@swbell.net Smith Editorial Services CIS: 73177,366 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ It doesn't TAKE all kinds, we just HAVE all kinds... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 11:55:26 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: What do you do? At 04:11 PM 2/13/97 EST, you wrote: >What is belay? "Belay" is nautical lingo for "quit it".... Michael K. Smith mksmith1@swbell.net Smith Editorial Services CIS: 73177,366 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ It doesn't TAKE all kinds, we just HAVE all kinds... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 13:48:42 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: Saving computer files Michael K. Smith wrote: > > God, you still *buy* floppies?! I just erase and relabel all the AOL, GNN, > and Prodigy disks that come my way; must have 40 or 50 of the silly things > by now -- but I haven't bought a floppy in at least a year! :) > > Mike >I've got over a dozen AOL disks (have gotten at least 3 since all the flack about how nobody can get on AOL because of the #'s of new users!). But how do I get onto the GNN and Prodigy mailing lists? ;-D (Just joking - I get all the disks I need from AOL. But once to my disgust they sent me a CD ROM!) -- Ann Truesdale "The tenacity of a habit is usually in proportion to its absurdity." Marcel Proust ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 14:07:32 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Test Sorry to waste bandwidth, but I've been getting all these weird "undeliverable" messages from Compuserve on my posts. Do I need to leave in the "Indexer's Discussion Group" in quotes? Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 17:24:15 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Internet Phone Charges In a message dated 97-02-16 11:36:55 EST, you write: > My fiancee is on the inside of Bell South, in a > managerial/technical capacity, and when I asked her about this a few months > ago, she sat me down and tried to explain switching theory. (I still don't > understand it all; my field is history, not physics...) But the crux is > that the average voice-call lasts something like 3 minutes, which can be > handled just fine at a flat monthly rate. But online connections average > 30-40 minutes, and some people, of course, leave their connection up for > many hours at a time (I do it myself sometimes). While that connection is > open, the "switch" (or whatever it actually is...) has to remain open. And > there's a finite number of switch connections available, in the real world. > Subscribers in places like NYC have been paying for phone usage in defined > "units" for some years now. > > You can't get something for nothing, folks. Sorry.... > Mike, What your fiancee told you must apply to local switches (as being finite in number) because the Internet itself is pretty much a packet-switched network. By that I mean that our messages are broken up into oodles of tiny different data packets, which can take a multitude of routes to their destination where they are reassembled, reconstituting the original message. (And this is part of the "indestructibility" of the Internet. If a point isn't working, packets are merely routed along another path around it.) But that's not really here nor there. The real kicker about this is that, while the Baby Bells are complaining to the FCC about Internet users tying up the lines, at least some of them are offering Internet services themselves. My own local telco, Pacific Bell, is a case in point. So there's a bit of hypocrisy on their part in this matter, IMHO. And this is aside from the point I made in an earlier post about the fact that the telcos have been upgrading to fiber optics to increase system capacity for years, long before the Internet craze hit. It seems to me that they are simply trying to find a way to get us to pay for what they've already been doing, using Internet usage as a convenient excuse. And believe me, I'm *not* being anti-business by pointing this out--laissez faire not being at all a dirty word to me. But laissez faire cuts both ways--i.e., not calling upon the government to stack the deck in ones favor (as well as staying off ones back). Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 16:29:47 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joanne Clendenen Subject: Re: editing down Cutting, cutting, cutting. I sympathize. Last short one I did, the author had a fit and I had to add stuff back in (the designer somehow squeezed in a little more room!). So, good luck! I think you will have to do as you say and cut down on subentries. I'm finishing one up now that is a bit short and I had to change my rule of maximum locators from 4 to 6 or 7 before I made subentries. Didn't like it, but... I still came out too long, though, so I reviewed the text to see which names I might be able to leave out because mention wasn't real significant. I also used cross references more often and didn't put in as many synonyms as I usually do. Makes the index less useful, but, I had no choice. If I don't do it, the editor will hack it up without much thought, and then it will be a mess. I also had some University names, which I only put under University, and not under the city name. I had basketball team names as well, but only put them in once, under the city+team, and not double-posted under the team name (e.g. "Houston Astros" but no "Astros, Houston"). Alas, we do not live in a perfect world. I wish they could have given this book some of the extra pages that were in a recent one where I was asked to make the index as long as possible. You might think that would be heaven, but not really. Too much detail and trivial mentions just clutter up the works. Again, good luck. Joanne ---------- AfterWords Indexing Services 9597 Jones Road #113 Houston, TX 77065 (281) 469-4461 wsc-jec@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 20:55:26 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Jacobs Subject: Re: Cutting an index Leslie asks about cutting a software index: I realize that run-in indexes are not common to software manuals. However, I have seen many very weird (and difficult to use) formats in software manuals. If your client actually wants a valuable index, then perhaps consideration should be given to run-in format. This is assuming that you have a reasonably tight index to begin with, and that the cutting will damage the content. I hate cutting indexes. A little tightening up is fine, but wholesale cutting invariably leaves holes. Laura noted: > I usually resent finding out at the last minute that an index has to be >drastically cut--and it *always* takes much more time than I like, and >usually results in my losing money on the deal... I agree, it is very time-consuming, especially if it is done well. But if the client makes it a last-minute request, the client should pay for it -- it isn't part of the original deal. Clients should not expect you to absorb the costs of their inefficiency (if the indexer is responsible for misreading the specs or of wrongly estimating density, etc., that is a different situation). If you ask a lawyer to spend some extra time on your problem, you will pay for it; if you ask a plumber to add a valve after the estimate has been done, you will pay on top of the estimate; so... My experience has been that if I make it clear from the beginning that all work above and beyond the original agreement will be charged to the client by the hour (weekend work at a client's request is certainly time-and-a-half), the client tends to be very careful to try to make all requests reasonable. I got myself into the "losing money" bind several times before coming to that realization. Good luck with the cutting, Leslie. Slashing a well-prepared index is painful, to say the least! Christine ************************************************************************* Christine Jacobs cmjacobs@johnabbott.qc.ca Documentation and Library Systems John Abbott College P.O. Box 2000 Ste-Anne-de-Bellevue, QC H9X 3L9 of:(514) 457-6610, loc.470; fax: (514) 457-4730 ************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 20:16:53 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: editing down At 03:57 PM 2/15/97 -0500, you wrote: >I am facing a problem I have never encountered before, drastically editing >down an index. I received a message a few days ago that the space for the >index is minimal and I'm finding I have to cut several hundred lines from the >index (300-400). It was due yesterday, now due Monday. Your opinions please, >what have you done if you have had similar problems? And, how long a string >of page references do you consider ridiculous. I'm going to have to cut a lot >of subentries to make this work, which means that I'm going to have main >entries followed by relatively long strings of page references. Any >guidelines you follow? Or, when faced with this do you just start to close >your eyes and cut (and hope no one sees your name in the back of the book) Yeah, basically, that's about all you *can* do. First, see what entries you can dispense with entirely (perhaps in consultation with the editor). Prioritize single-mention entries, flipped book titles (maybe you can get by with just an entry under a book's author), entries for illustrations, etc. But I've had to cut a 2,000-line index by one-third practically at the last moment, following a call from a managing editor who discovered the total length of the book had been cut out from under her. *You* know you've done a good job, but indexing is work-for-hire -- so get out the scissors and start cutting. "Ridiculous" doesn't enter into it. You can sigh in resignation, if you like, as you deposit the check.... Mike Michael K. Smith mksmith1@swbell.net Smith Editorial Services CIS: 73177,366 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ It doesn't TAKE all kinds, we just HAVE all kinds... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 22:32:52 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM Subject: Re: editing down Thank you all for your advice on cutting down. It's nice to know we're not alone. And, truthfully, although this is going to be a sketchier index than I'd like, I've also had to deal with the other end of the stick. An author wanted every passing mention of *everything* and everybody in the index. I fought over that one a lot and haven't been asked to index for the company again (except when they needed someone to index in Spanish:D There aren't many of us out there.) IMO, this index will be better than that would have been. Maybe because I have control and you all have helped. Well, back to the cutting room. Leslie LLF Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 02:04:19 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bruce Cleary Subject: Index, Gibbon, History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire Delurking: I read a wonderful review of a new edition of Gibbon's _History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire_ two years ago in the _[London] Times Literary Supplement_. It went on and on about the wonders of the index, now published for the first time since the original edition went out of print. Speculation is that Gibbon himself may have been the indexer. This edition now appears to be affordably available in the States: See the Reader's Subscription" ad on the inside front page of the Feb. 20, '97 _New York Review of Books_. Has this been the subject of discussion here? If so, sorry to bring up an old subject. BC (copyeditor/writer curious about indexing) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 04:10:09 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth <106234.1745@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Index,Gibbon... Bruce Cleary wrote: I read a wonderful review of a new edition of Gibbon's _History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire_ two years ago in the _[London] Times Literary Supplement_. It went on and on about the wonders of the index, now published for the first time since the original edition went out of print. Speculation is that Gibbon himself may have been the indexer. This edition now appears to be affordably available in the States: See the Reader's Subscription" ad on the inside front page of the Feb. 20, '97 _New York Review of Books_. Has this been the subject of discussion here? Bruce, the review you mention appeared in the TLS on July 14, 1995, and was written by Claude Rawson. Part of it (referring to the index) was reproduced with permission in The Indexer, Vol 20, No 1, April 1996. The new edition was edited by David Womersley. The reviewer reports that according to Gibbon "the index was compiled by 'a person frequently employed in works of this nature', evidently a professional indexer whose identity remains unknown", but later he (the reviewer) speculates: "The index will seem to some readers very close to Gibbon's own manner, so that the notion of its being his own work (denied, perhaps, out of *pudeur* at confessing to the menial drudgery) might have a certain appeal." I don't know of any discussion of this index on Index-L, but then I haven't been a subscriber all that long. Anyway, keep up the menial drudgery, everyone. Christine ************************************************************************** Christine Shuttleworth Indexing and Editorial Services Flat 1 25 St Stephen's Avenue London W12 8JB Tel/Fax (+44 181) 749 8797 email 106234.1745@compuserve.com ************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 09:45:18 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "L. Mark Bruffey" Subject: DOES ANYONE KNOW of a written system for indexing and filing diskettes? Hello All! I am looking for a system to classify and identify my diskette collection; I have found great software, but I still need a classification system or scheme which will allow for growth, expansion, variation in the system. Thank you, Mark Bruffey cbtslibr@voicenet.com mbruffey@voicenet.com -- *********************************************************************** CBTS Library 1380 S Valley Forge Rd 215 368 7538 (tel) Lansdale PA 19446 215 368 1003 (fax) cbtslibr@voicenet.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Good WORD of the day: "In the way of righteousness is life, and in its pathway there is no death" -- Solomon, 1000 BCE. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- L. Mark Bruffey CBTS Library 1380 S Valley Forge Rd. Lansdale PA 19446 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 12:12:48 -0500 Reply-To: wgm@sageline.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: William Meisheid Organization: Sageline Publishing Subject: Re: Deducting the costs of PC and software Carol Roberts wrote: > > >What about deducting software? I remember there were disagreements about this recently on this list. > > My accountant says to treat software the same as books (i.e., expense them). I was one of the sources of the disagreement since I argued for expensing software, which my accountant says is fine for shrink-wrapped software (this includes section 179 use for large items like Macrex or Cindex - or for me RoboHELP Office or Doc-To-Help Documentation Studio). The long term depreciation requirements was designed for intellectual property software that was developed or customized by you. It would be interesting to see if there are any recent IRS rulings in this area since almost everyone I know has always expensed shrink-wrap software. -- William Meisheid "Thoughts still and always in progress" Certified RoboHELP Training WUGNET/Hypertext Technologies sysop on Compuserve Sageline Publishing www.sageline.com wgm@sageline.com 410.465.1548 Fax: 410.744.2456 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 14:09:22 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli@AOL.COM Subject: Forced sorting >From the CINDEX manual: "Text enclosed in braces {} will be used in sorting entries but will be hidden when you produce the final formatted copy of the index. You may use braces as often as you want in any field." So if you add a false code, such as {aaa} to the beginning of the page number, it will sort first, but the code will not print. 2:523, 4:677, {aaa}9:406-417, will be sorted and print as follows: 9:406-417, 2:523, 4:677 Fred Leise "Between the Lines" Indexing and Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 17:38:22 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Leonard Will Subject: Re: DOES ANYONE KNOW of a written system for indexing and filing diskettes? In-Reply-To: <856190630.625054.0@vms.dc.lsoft.com> In message <856190630.625054.0@vms.dc.lsoft.com> on Mon, 17 Feb 1997, "L. Mark Bruffey" writes > >I am looking for a system to classify and identify my diskette >collection; I have found great software, but I still need a >classification system or scheme which will allow for growth, expansion, >variation in the system. > Just saying that you have "a diskette collection" doesn't give us the information needed to give you a helpful reply, I'm afraid. (Unless you want us to suggest that you classify them as "5.25 inch disks", "3.5 inch disks", "double-density disks", "single-sided disks" and so on.) :-) If you want to classify the subjects of the files on the discs, then the scheme will depend on the spread of subjects you are interested in. As I collect material on all sorts of topics I must confess to using Dewey for my files and papers, like David Mundie, whose paper at http://ivory.lm.com/~mundie/DDHC/CyberDewey.html was copied to the INDEX-L list by Karl Vogel on 10th Feb. It suits me because whatever topic comes up, there is a place for it. If your interests are narrower, there may be a specialised subject scheme you can use. On the other hand, if you normally approach these files by the names of persons or organisation, you may use these as well as, or instead of, a subject scheme. I hope that your "great software" allows for more than one access point per item. What software is it, by the way? Leonard Will -- Willpower Information (Partners: Dr Leonard D Will, Sheena E Will) Information Management Consultants Tel: +44 181 372 0092 27 Calshot Way, Enfield, Middlesex, EN2 7BQ, UK Fax: +44 181 372 0094 L.Will@Willpower.demon.co.uk Sheena.Will@Willpower.demon.co.uk ------------------ http://www.willpower.demon.co.uk/ ------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:31:48 +1100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jon and Glenda Subject: Combining work with small kids; soliciting small jobs The thread on what other work indexers do is a subject that always interests me (I hate having all my eggs in one basket). I would like to hear from anyone who has hints on combining indexing work with child care. I find that the intensity of say 100 hours indexing over 2 weeks is really hard to fit into a schedule normally based on picking kids up from school etc, with a bit of regular work in the middle of the day. For this reason I find I have been reluctant to solicit work, knowing that I would have to turn big jobs down. Does anyone have any idea how to solicit small jobs (eg. are there any types of publishers who specialise in 200 page books) and has anyone successfully persuaded someone to pay for an annual index to a previously unindexed periodical? If so, how did you identify people to approach? Thanks, Glenda. Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Blue Mountains Desktop 61-047-398 199 http://www.magna.com.au/~jonathan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 02:05:44 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth <106234.1745@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Copy of: Index,Gibbon... Everyone, please forgive me if you have already had this. I got a message fromCompuserve saying they were returning it as undeliverable. However, in the meantime they may have managed to deliver it. ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: Christine Shuttleworth, 106234,1745 TO: Index-L, INTERNET:index-l@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu DATE: 17/02/97 08:46 RE: Copy of: Index,Gibbon... Bruce Cleary wrote: I read a wonderful review of a new edition of Gibbon's _History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire_ two years ago in the _[London] Times Literary Supplement_. It went on and on about the wonders of the index, now published for the first time since the original edition went out of print. Speculation is that Gibbon himself may have been the indexer. This edition now appears to be affordably available in the States: See the Reader's Subscription" ad on the inside front page of the Feb. 20, '97 _New York Review of Books_. Has this been the subject of discussion here? Bruce, the review you mention appeared in the TLS on July 14, 1995, and was written by Claude Rawson. Part of it (referring to the index) was reproduced with permission in The Indexer, Vol 20, No 1, April 1996. The new edition was edited by David Womersley. The reviewer reports that according to Gibbon "the index was compiled by 'a person frequently employed in works of this nature', evidently a professional indexer whose identity remains unknown", but later he (the reviewer) speculates: "The index will seem to some readers very close to Gibbon's own manner, so that the notion of its being his own work (denied, perhaps, out of *pudeur* at confessing to the menial drudgery) might have a certain appeal." I don't know of any discussion of this index on Index-L, but then I haven't been a subscriber all that long. Anyway, keep up the menial drudgery, everyone. Christine ************************************************************************** Christine Shuttleworth Indexing and Editorial Services Flat 1 25 St Stephen's Avenue London W12 8JB Tel/Fax (+44 181) 749 8797 email 106234.1745@compuserve.com ************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:04:58 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DTDIGGS@AOL.COM Subject: Re: What else we do? Professionally: Copyediting, which I -- like Carol -- may have to drop soon, due to low rates. Personally: 1. Read, read, read . . . 2. Dream up and test (with my husband) new recipes, which I would love to move to the "professional" category. 3. Plan and take as many trips as I can afford (ditto # 2 about a switch to "professional"). 4. January - April: attend the thoroughbred horse-racing, where I *try* not to lose too much of my hard-earned pay! 5. April - September: golf, which I still -- after three years -- find amazingly frustrating and trying to my patience. 6. April - September: garden (beginner level). 7. Try out new restaurants. 8. Because of # 7 and #2, work out at the gym. 9. Volunteer at the children's hospital once a week. 9. Think of all the things I need to do (clean and organize) and want to do (expand my business into other areas, write, decorate my house) but don't have time to do. Teddy DIGGS EDITORIAL SERVICES dtdiggs@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:49:46 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David K. Ream" Subject: Re: Deducting the costs of PC and software My accountant wouldn't let me deduct the cost of a large software purchase stating that it is considered intangible property and not covered by the accelerated capital expenditures rulings. This opinion was confirmed independently by another accountant. So the software is being depreciated over a 3-year period straight-line method rather than all at once. Although my company is subchapter S, I would assume this is the same for sole proprietorships. My accountant has me depreciate software over a dollar limit set for the corporation. Any purchases under that limit are simply expensed. This limit is not hard and fast you can pick any limit ($100 or $500) as long as you do it consistently. Dave Ream "Ask four economists a question, and you get seven answers." (Accountants are close relatives.) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 11:24:39 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Combining work with small kids Glenda wrote: >I would like to hear from anyone who has hints on combining indexing work >with >child care. I find that the intensity of say 100 hours indexing over 2 weeks >is >really hard to fit into a schedule normally based on picking kids up from >school etc, with a bit of regular work in the middle of the day. I'm struggling with this these days. I did it for part of a year when my daughter was 1 1/2 and it was awful. I wouldn't try it again with anybody younger than elementary age, and I wouldn't try it unless you're an experienced indexer. She's nine now and we're homeschooling. It's working better than I thought it might; I'm finding pieces of time for work and am getting better at doing it in bits and pieces (I can't do the intense creative kind of thinking indexing takes for very long at a time anyway), but sometimes I feel like I'm going to explode. Heavy deadlines seem to combine with heavy kid times (extra violin practice right before a recital, for instance). My housemate is doing the housework, errands and laundry right now in exchange for room and board (and partly to help us out) and that's saving my life--I'm not sure it would be possible without that. So I don't know if I'm being encouraging or not. Anybody else have tips? Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 11:32:55 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sanindex@AOL.COM Subject: Chicago/Great Lakes Meeting If you have signed up for the Chicago/Great Lakes Meeting and have not received a confirmation, please send me an e-mail (sanindex@aol.com) or call me at 847-303-0989. Sandi Schroeder ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 08:56:20 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: What else we do? Professionally l. copyediting 2. emergency production editing 3. commercial copywriting Elsewise Activities of the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers), plus: 1. Protesting nuclear weapons (especially testing, which is physically at the Nevada Test Site, and allows me to indulge in camping) 2. Facilitating workshops on nonviolence 3. Read, read, read (currently working on a Leakey family biography, finished _Smilla's Sense of Snow_, soon will again pick up a look at the roots of Theosophy and similiar movements 4. needlepoint\ 5. knitting 6. gardening AND just vegging out. Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@powergrid.electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 12:29:31 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM Subject: Re: What else we do? I've been too busy doing to answer, but, like many of you, professionally I do all levels of editing in addition to indexing. My other full-time occupation is mother to my 3 1/2 year old son. Keeping up with him is my greatest challenge. Personally, when I have the time, I walk rollerblade read and read and read and read..... play with my dog listen to music (which, fortunately, I can do along with many of my other activities) learning to play piano BTW, so many of us like to read, maybe we should start a sort of ongoing thread recommending books that we've read. I have so little time to surf the bookstores and library the way I used to, I'd love to get recommendations from others. Now, to try to organize my office while I have a short break between projects. Leslie LLF Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:55:40 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah Lee Bihlmayer Subject: Re: What else we do? Leslie suggests: >BTW, so many of us like to read, maybe we should start a sort of ongoing >thread recommending books that we've read. I have so little time to surf the >bookstores and library the way I used to, I'd love to get recommendations >from others. This is somewhat off-topic, but...gosh, it'd be great if we could get some kind of off-list round-robin e-mail thing going. I love to talk about books too (who doesn't?); maybe those of us who are interested can start e-mailing each other. I've got at least a few gems to recommend; anyone who wants to hear about 'em is invited to contact me privately. Sarah |Sarah Lee Bihlmayer * Intranet Documentation Specialist | |Site Development * Content Creation * Content Management| | Technical Writing * Developmental Editing * Indexing | | 415-207-4046 * sarahlee@contentmanage.com | ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 13:23:59 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Bookstores and reading for indexers Well, the easiest thing to do in this regard (if you have a good Web connection) is to check out Amazon.com at http://www.amazon.com/--they have lots of reviews and new books are featured everyday, plus they have review excerpts from many of the book review media sources (NY Time Review of Books, Atlantic Monthly, etc.). One of the books featured today has to do with the process of naming things throughout history; there is also a book featured on the origins of mother tongues. You can look at their recommendations and then order whatever you want very easily or get the books at the library (maybe). You can also search by author, title, subject, keywords, for whatever you want to search for with their search engine. Try it--I guarantee you, if you like to read, you'll wonder how you managed before. (No, I do not work for them, but I am keeping them in business by ordering way too many books from them!) At 12:29 PM 2/18/97 -0500, you wrote: >BTW, so many of us like to read, maybe we should start a sort of ongoing >thread recommending books that we've read. I have so little time to surf the >bookstores and library the way I used to, I'd love to get recommendations >from others. >Leslie >LLF Editorial Services > > ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer cbertel@usit.net http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 13:56:58 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: WordenDex@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Bookstores and reading for indexers Please do not abandon local bookstores. They already are hurting from national chains. I don't work for any of them, but local bookstores are a civilizing influence for any town. Diane Worden Kalamazoo, Mich. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 14:07:07 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joanne Clendenen Subject: Re: Combining work with small kids Oh, yeah. I tried doing this with the three-year old, but gave up and put her in a five-day a week pre-school. Only catch is that I do a 40 min round trip commute twice a day, and it costs me $500 a month. Ah, for kindergarten! Marion needs more attention than I can give her and still work. It wouldn't be fair to her, I think, even if she were willing to play more on her own. Besides, school is great for her, especially now that she's four. The good part (sort of), is that if she or her eleven-year old brother are sick, I can still get some work done, and I can go to evenings and weekends to make up, whereas if I had to go to an office and work for someone else, I wouldn't have that flexibility. I actually look forward to having more than 4-5 hours a day for indexing work, but I'm able to meet my deadlines as it is, so I have no serious complaints. My husband keeps wondering (after only 1.5 years) why my income doesn't contribute more to discretionary buying, and then I have to remind him that at least 35% goes to taxes, and then there's Marion's school. Someday, with a larger client base, this will get better, but at the moment, this arrangement is best. Joanne AfterWords Indexing Services Joanne E. Clendenen 9597 Jones Rd. #113 Houston, TX 77065 (281) 469-4461 wsc-jec@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 15:05:12 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Debbie Baier Organization: Writing and Editing Services Subject: Re: Book thread LLFEdServ@AOL.COM wrote: > > I've been too busy doing to answer, but, like many of you, > professionally I do all levels of editing in addition to indexing. > > My other full-time occupation is mother to my 3 1/2 year old son. Keeping up > with him is my greatest challenge. > > Personally, when I have the time, I > walk > rollerblade > read and read and read and read..... > play with my dog > listen to music (which, fortunately, I can do along with many of my other > activities) > learning to play piano > > BTW, so many of us like to read, maybe we should start a sort of ongoing > thread recommending books that we've read. I have so little time to surf the > bookstores and library the way I used to, I'd love to get recommendations > from others. > > Now, to try to organize my office while I have a short break between > projects. > > Leslie > LLF Editorial Services Good idea -- count me in if others are interested. I love to read, and sometimes wish I had more people to talk to about books, authors, etc. There are newsgroups devoted to this (rec.arts.books off the top of my head) but I feel more comfortable interacting with individuals or smaller groups. Debbie Baier New Leaf Writing and Editing Services ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 16:58:15 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol L Benson Subject: Macrex orders I too had trouble contacting Macrex for my order of the indexing software so I enlisted the help of my USDA course instructor, Vicky Agee. I found Vicky's reply and one from Gale Rhoades and thought they might help explain how orders might have gone astray. Note dates of the messages. I'm in the process of learning Macrex and so far have found the instructions and tutorial to be most user friendly. Also, Gale responded promptly with my questions pertaining to my printer. Hope to meet all the Mass. indexers attending the ASI meeting in Waltham in March. Carol Benson Morrisville VT ============================================================================ From: KEEG55C@aol.com cbenson@ix.netcom.com; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 11:45:30 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 11:45:30 -0500 To: cbenson@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Macrex Order Hello again Carol, I talked with Gale late yesterday and early this morning. She should be calling you sometime today. A series of disasters have befallen her and that's why you haven't gotten your software order filled yet. Her local post office (she receives mail at the post office in a post office box) was temporarily closed because the building had an asbestos hazard. While the bureaucracy sorted this out, it was unclear how to get her mail and they have now opened the post office for just a couple of hours so she can pick up mail, but it isn't always clear what the hours are or at a time when she can do that. In addition, she has several computers, but her main computer with the macrex orders on it and with her email access crashed on Friday and she is dealing with getting it up and running again... There have been one or two other matters she has been dealing with to give technical support to clients on site as well. Let me know if you don't hear from her by the end of the day. Your order may be caught in the post office mess -- and she can't check her computer yet to see when or if she has already sent it out to you. She probably would be willing to send you a second copy, but needs to ask you a few things about your computer system specifications. Life is like this some times. Vicky ======================================================================== From: Macrex@aol.com Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:08:15 -0500 To: cbenson@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Macrex software order placed 10-12-96 Dear Carol: Well, I finally have my computer working again -- it crashed Friday afternoon and I've had the devil's own time getting it working -- with the result that when I picked up mail a little while ago I had over 200 incoming messages. Now, about your order. I've not been able to get to the temporary post office during the hours when I could pickup my mail -- while they are open normal office hours (9am to 5pm), everyone must get in line to claim the mail and my schedule has not had many hour or longer holes. The result is that it has been nearly two weeks since I managed to pickup mail. Quite frustrating. According to the notice on the door, they expect to be back in their regular quarters by next Tuesday and it is possible that the box lobby will be open this Thursday or Friday (the lobby is open 7am to 7pm, six days a week). The end result is that as I have no record on your order, it must be stuck in the post office mess. How about you send me your address and I'll go ahead and ship and then we can sort everything out after I finally get the mail? Gale Rhoades Director Macrex Sales & Support Office ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 18:34:44 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: TRIP10@AOL.COM Subject: Tell the Publishers . . . Last Call NFAIS Conference Last Call for the NFAIS Annual Conference... Come and Tell Publishers, Producers, and Digital Vendors What You Think of Their New Digital Reference Offerings . . . On behalf of the Federation, I would like to invite you to fill one of 40 remaining openings for delegates to our Annual Conference in Philadelphia next week (Feb. 24-26). . . What do you get out of it? According to our own promotions: "To witness for yourself the transformation taking place in library and reference services." But only you can be the judge of whether our ideas have a prayer of succeeding. And we'd like you to be in the audience to tell us what you think. As for content: We are offering a program rich in actual demonstrations of the state of our art: The program features demonstrations of the very latest digital library offerings from Academic Press, Elsevier Science, UMI, and Blackwells . . . plus tours of other Web-based information resources for serious and discriminating reference and research information users. Our featured speakers are keynoter Bob Massie, long-time publishing figure and director of CAS, who opens the conference with our overall assertion: The Future Is Now. You'll also hear Toni Carbo, information policy advisor to Presidents, deliver her Miles Conrad Memorial lecture on Just-for-You Services. Luncheon speakers are world-famous information industry columnist Harry Collier, from Great Britain, who asserts that the Internet has killed off copyright (thank goodness!) and the always insightful Cliff Lynch--who'll wrap up the event with an on-the-spot-reveue of it, from his unique perspective. Also, updates on Federal information policy, a half-day on what's happening with library consortia, plus updates on document delivery outsourcing trends, copyright (how could publishers have a meeting without it?), and the emerging law of the Internet. See how an Intra-net may change your information enviroment in the very near future from officials of Netscape, the New York Public Library, and others who have seen it happen overnight . . . see also the latest in non-Boolean search interfaces from the likes of Infoseek and Personal Library Software . . . though the search strategy may be different, do they work just as well? You be the judge. New patent and medical Web-based services will be shown too. And our panel of communications experts has critiqued more than 50 Web sites to select the top four. See why! What made them stand out among the best? Plus much more . . . including the opportunity to mix and mingle with leading primary, secondary, and reference publishers, vendors, service providers, and library and information specialists . . . and (who knows?) influence the future yourself. Are we on the right path? We'd love to hear your thoughts on what we've done and what we're doing on the Net and within other electronic networking contexts. All our sessions are plenary and all include an invitation to participate from the floor. Please take the time to join us . . . help us make the future now by giving us the feedback we need. Our librarian and academic rate is $400 for the full three days. Or if you can just make it for one day, $150. For others the full rate is $750. Or, you can attend a single day for $250. Give us a call at 215 893-1561 and we'll fax you out a program and list of accomodations. Or visit our Web site to pick up a copy of the program right now: [http://www.pa.utulsa.edu/nfais.html] Dick Kaser NFAIS Executive Director nfais@hslc.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 00:16:08 UT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Margaret Ulber Subject: What else we do? It's been interesting to get small glimpses into other indexer's lives. Clearly, we're not all glued to the computer eight hours a day entering headings and locators nonstop. Professionally (or, more bluntly, to make money) I also copyedit and I run a home inspections business. I like the variety. I know from experience that I grow to hate anything that I have to do for 40 hours a week. Also, it can be very refreshing and interesting to work my way through other people's houses (with my partner), filling in my inspection form, and then get paid for doing it. And, yes, once I get enough inspection jobs to cover expenses for the month, it pays better and is easier than indexing, although the potential liability is much greater. (There are fewer negative repercussions to making a mistake in an index than there are to missing a serious structural problem in a house.) I've been considering the comments about how indexing seems to pay better than copyediting. Thinking about my recent projects, I can see that this is theoretically true for me, too. But in practice, I'm not so sure. I don't think I can do as many hours of indexing in one day as I can copyediting, for any length of time (at least, not without burnout). I find indexing to be more intense and demanding of my focus, even though I don't believe it is actually more difficult (for me, anyway). I find that at least part of every copyediting job entails some very low demand time, such as flipping through pages to make sure I've keymarked every heading, or copyediting the well-formatted references at the end of a journal article. Sometimes, I don't even really need to absorb what I'm copyediting. My involvement can be almost superficial. When I'm indexing, my brain is fully engaged nearly all the time. The gist of this is that since I need more *down* time from indexing, I think indexing and copyediting are more or less equivalent in how much money they provide over the longer term. Well, back to wading through my e-mail. Meg Ulber M_Ulber@msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 19:20:32 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: GVHatch@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Combining work with small kids I have been indexing for about 2 years. My kids are now 5 1/2 and 3. It is truly exhausting trying to meet deadlines. Every deadline I get seems to come when someone is sick or there's a karate tournament or some crisis. In order to keep sane, I pay a teenager (cheaper than Molly Maid) to clean my house and another one to weed my flower bed. Fast food is a must during the final days before a deadline . Also, I make sure to give the kids a good 2 hours (at least) of uninterrupted, intense play each day. We jump on the computer or pull out board games or run around during that time. Then, I explain that it's mommy's time now. Of course, I still am keeping an eye on them and will stop occasionally to read a story, get a snack, answer a question etc., but that uninterrupted time is really important to them. (I don't answer my phone etc. during that time.) They are more willing to give me some peace while they play with their toys. I also buy a small treat once the paycheck arrives. The kids really anticipate this now and are so much more helpful when they know something wonderful is coming. (That even works with husbands!) There are other things, but this is a run down of some of my major sanity savers. As for specifically soliciting small jobs, I have never considered that. It's true that books 250 pages or less are much easier to turn around than the bigger ones that come with the same deadlines. I would love to hear if anyone has tried it. Gaylene Hatch "I think men who have a pierced ear are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought jewelry." Rita Rudner ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 20:30:10 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Nienart Subject: kids I have a 15 mo and 5 year old and have found the only way to survive is to have a permanant day care schedule even if you are not working!! I know, I know this costs money when you are NOT working but kids can't cope with Mom being home and then all of a sudden getting a big job and working hard for a few weeks. Even my 5 year old can not comprehend that if Mom works a zillion hours for a couple of weeks and then he gets me full time until I get another job. I keep telling him that a baby sitter for a few weeks results in Mom full time for the next few weeks. I thought he could understand this but he can't. I gave up the indexing and chemistry consulting route for a 3 month contract 2/days week at J&J doing computer work. My family is much more settled and happier. I could certainly earn more money in shorter time with the indexing or consulting but it was not on a schedule and kids need this schedule. My impression only. My 5 yr old expecially needs the routine. Thanks for letting me get this off my chest!! I struggled long and hard with the idea that I could earn more money in a shorter time period and have more free time with the kids if I could impress on my 5 yr old that Mom works for a while and then takes a break etc. I was not successful and took the job at J&J. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:37:37 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: What else we do? I've been resisting putting my $0.02 in on this thread but Leslie suggesting book recommendations was just too much for me to resist. ;-) For anyone who wants a well-written "warm, fuzzy" read I'd recommend checking out Jane Duncan, a Scottish writer. Her adult books all start with "My Friends...". My favorite (so far) is "My Friends Tom and George". What else I do...well, I really don't do any indexing yet! I'm hoping to make my current career part-time & work my way over to indexing so I'll be at home more and in a less people-intensive environment. (That means I'd rather work alone that struggle with employees.) I am a veterinarian & practice owner at present. Otherwise, I garden, do cross-stitch & needlepoint, ride horseback (suspended activity at the moment), sail in the summer, bird watch a little, do yoga (for my sanity) and read, read, read. Also, I write a monthly pet care column for a local bi-monthly newspaper & would like to do more writing. I am owned by 6 cats (2 @ office & 4 @ home; 1 now in lap), 1 dog, and 2 horses. I fit in a little time for my husband now & then. Thank heaven he cooks! Ann -- Ann Truesdale "The tenacity of a habit is usually in proportion to its absurdity." Marcel Proust ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 00:00:43 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Nancy A. Guenther" Subject: Re: Combining work with small kids >I would like to hear from anyone who has hints on combining indexing work with >child care. I find that the intensity of say 100 hours indexing over 2 weeks is >really hard to fit into a schedule normally based on picking kids up from >school etc, with a bit of regular work in the middle of the day. For this >reason I find I have been reluctant to solicit work, knowing that I would have >to turn big jobs down. Hi, I usually lurk on Index-L or respond personally to notes when I feel I have info to offer. This topic is one in which I have experience & can offer the suggestions that have worked for us. I'm a single parent of 3 (a 15-year-old struggling with chronic Lyme disease; a 13-year old & and 5 year old in Kindergarten). I have been indexing full-time since '83 when my 2nd child was born. It was a slow start but I have been able to provide for my family since my husband moved out 3 years ago. I was helped in my work patterns of accepting interruptions & still being productive by having worked as a reference librarian prior to beginning my indexing career. I plan each day based on fitting the required activities in with the work that must be accomplished each day. As much as possible I try to keep free those parts of the day when I know I am more likely to be alert & the house will be quiet (for me early morning & late evening) I plan things like grocery shopping, dr's appts, etc. in the afternoon when I am usually at a low point & find intellectual activity more difficult. I almost always make at least 2 passes on the proofs -- one when it is quiet & I can read & mark text & do my planning of the index organization; the second is my data entry which often occurs with kids near me. The youngest has learned to enjoy putting together puzzles or coloring near me. The older kids may do their homework in my office. With most decisions already made it is possible to do quite a bit of typing with this activity going on around me. When proofs arrive I punch a hole in the corner of all pages & place a metal ring through them. A batch of these pages is almost always with me on errands so I can work while waiting for after-school activities to end or while waiting in dr's offices, etc. My children are growing up with the understanding of deadlines. I have tried to share with them the fact that when time is tight it is easier for me to take a break to read a story, or go out for supper, or play a board game or whatever, if they can give me uninterrupted time or lighten some of my workload by helping with extra chores. It is relatively easy for even the youngest to understand: Mom needs to type the entries for 20 pp. before there is time for a break. That work will be completed more quickly if there are not interruptions. One additional thought -- in some ways I find the larger texts (approx. 1000 pp.) to be an efficient use of my time. There is certain basic work which each project requires that seems to take a similar amount of time regardless of the size. Completing a large project gives me a sense that I can take a few days & just focus on my children's needs instead of accepting every single small job that is offered. Juggling multiple small jobs can create more chaos in my family schedule than managing one larger project. I didn't intend for this to be so long. As is common around here, it was written during 3 different time segments during the day as I found I had a few minutes. Time is certainly something I am always trying to use more efficiently so I'll be interested in learning other's ideas. Nancy Guenther nanguent@chesco.com http://www.chesco.com/~nanguent ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:49:41 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Stephen E. Bach" Subject: indexes for previously unindexed periodicals >... and has anyone successfully >persuaded someone to pay for an annual index to a previously unindexed >periodical? If so, how did you identify people to approach? Several years ago I approached a publisher of a technical periodical for computer programers (a magazine devoted to the computer language, C). I suggested to the head of the company, a small publisher, that their unindexed periodical seriously needed an index. I was able to show them a long index I had done and was still doing for another computer programming periodical, Dr. Dobb's Journal. They contracted with me to do several years of back issues, and I then indexed the periodical for several years after that. The work ended when they were bought out by a larger publisher, about a year ago. I charged 2.00/indexable page to start; then went to $2.50. An indexable page I considered any page that contained any amount of editorial text, even if only one sentence, or word. This made up for the time it took to analyze some of the more arcane material under discussion. Pages containing only program listings did not count. The pricing worked out well. I got my start with periodical indexing by indexing five years of Dr. Dobb's Journal on my own, with no guarantee of any remuneration. It was a big risk, but I was new in indexing and quite hungry. I sold it both on disk and in hard copy form. I made some money, but not nearly enough to compensate me for my original effort. However, in the long run it has paid off handsomely. The publisher liked it, gave me free advertising in the magazine, and then paid me royalties for its distribution over CompuServe. Subsequently they have licensed it from me on a non-exclusive basis for use on their CD-ROMs and for broadcast on the Internet. I get paid monthly and they get a monthly update. I think Dr. Dobb's Journal is one of the few periodicals that has a current cumulative index of itself up on the Internet as soon the current issue hits the stands (sometimes before). My fee is not based on pages indexed but in part on the demand for the index online in the years before the Web was widely known. I wish I had more than one contract like this. Sometimes it takes years for seeds planted to really bring rewards. It's worth planting the seeds! Stephen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 09:49:38 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sanindex@AOL.COM Subject: Feb 22 meeting Anyone who has signed up for the Chicago/Great Lakes Meeting on Saturday the 22 and who has not received a confirmation, should either e-mail Sandi Schroeder at sanindex@aol.com or call 847-303-0989. Sandi Schroeder ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 10:34:26 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joanne Clendenen Subject: Combining work with small kids <> Oh, yeah. I tried doing this with the three-year old, but gave up and put her in a five-day a week pre-school. Only catch is that I do a 40 min round trip commute twice a day, and it costs me $500 a month. Ah, for kindergarten! Marion needs more attention than I can give her and still work. It wouldn't be fair to her, I think, even if she were willing to play more on her own. Besides, school is great for her, especially now that she's four. The good part (sort of), is that if she or her eleven-year old brother are sick, I can still get some work done, and I can go to evenings and weekends to make up, whereas if I had to go to an office and work for someone else, I wouldn't have that flexibility. I actually look forward to having more than 4-5 hours a day for indexing work, but I'm able to meet my deadlines as it is, so I have no serious complaints. My husband keeps wondering (after only 1.5 years) why my income doesn't contribute more to discretionary buying, and then I have to remind him that at least 35% goes to taxes, and then there's Marion's school. Someday, with a larger client base, this will get better, but at the moment, this arrangement is best. Joanne AfterWords Indexing Services Joanne E. Clendenen 9597 Jones Rd. #113 Houston, TX 77065 (281) 469-4461 wsc-jec@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 12:16:07 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Seth A. Maislin" Subject: Re: Combining work with small kids In-Reply-To: "Joanne Clendenen" "Combining work with small kids" (Feb 19, 10:34am) You know, I don't have any small children. You think book indexing makes a guy sterile? ;-) - Seth -- Seth A. Maislin (seth@ora.com) O'Reilly & Associates Focus Publishing Services 90 Sherman Street 89 Grove Street Cambridge MA 02140 Watertown MA 02172-2826 (617) 499-7439 phone (617) 924-4428 (617) 661-1116 facsimile smaislin@world.std.com WWW: http://www.ora.com/people/staff/seth ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 10:18:39 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Martha Osgood Subject: Hello out there Hi everybody: I too am a rookie indexer, decloaking now after lurking for the past two or three months. I've been paying good attention to your hints, tips and suggestions, and to the kinds of questions you ask each other. Very helpful. If folks have sample cold call letters and suggestions they want to send my way, I sure would welcome it! I am also drafting a flyer or letter to profs and grad students about indexing their books, and about indexing a book for $1.00, and could use your suggestions/warnings. I'm at osgood@darkwing.uoregon.edu if you can respond. The thread of what all we do when we are not indexing has been more interesting than many would have expected, I think. I have enjoyed it. Here's my contribution: When I am not focussed on getting to know the art and business ends of indexing (thank you, Margie Towery, for the "What to Do Between USDA Lessons" list), I am a quilter (white-on-white, Drunkard's Paths, half-logs, crazy logs) and I do quilt guild stuff I read-read-read (Elizabeth George's English mysteries lately and also The Culture of Disbelief by Stephen Carter) I love to cook, especially variations on a Moosewood theme My husband and I are trying to do more walking, and considering VolksWalks when Spring and Summer arrive I try to figure out why my flower garden does not look like those in the gardening books I do Unitarian-Universalist stuff I looove Latte and Conversation We have two kitties (only one is an indexer - the top left hand drawer of the desk pulls out to reveal a soft shawl folded to welcome her - the other is a one-man cat who makes it clear that while I will be tolerated, I don't qualify, and my husband does). It's been nice to get to know you too. I'm so thankful you're here. Martha Osgood Back Words Indexing Eugene, Oregon osgood@darkwing.uoregon.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 13:57:32 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Legal indexers needed I have a client with an immediate need for a team (size unspecified) of legal indexers. They prefer a single organization that can provide all the indexers from one central point. If you know of any indexing job shops that could handle such a request, please e-mail me at Infodex@mindspring.com and I will put you in touch with the client. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 14:20:36 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: legal indexers The client has agreed to have her name posted here, so you can contact her directly. Contact Mary Stevenson, mary_stevenson@notes.cch.c Dick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 14:27:59 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Hill Subject: ASIS Mid Year, June 1 - 4 INFORMATION PRIVACY, SECURITY, AND DATA INTEGRITY ASIS 1997 Mid Year Meeting May 30 - June 3, 1997 Scottsdale, Arizona Preliminary Program We all rely on electronic data, secure, we hope, from compromise. Technology developments have surpassed social norms and ethics. Who owns data? How can we verify accuracy of data, and verify that data are authentic? What can you do when data about you are incorrect or misappropriated? What values for privacy, data sharing, and ethical responsibility will we need? How can you protect your organization and its information? These are the concerns of the 1997 ASIS Mid Year meeting. Following is the current (2/6/97) program of the 1997 ASIS Mid Year Meeting. For up-to-date information, session descriptions, schedule, registration information, and more, please see the ASIS Web site at or contact ASIS at the address below. Special and Plenary Sessions * Online Privacy and Free Speech: The Munitions Laws & You -- What's Happening with Personal Information and Communications in the Digital Age? Janlori Goldman, Deputy Director/co-founder, Center for Democracy and Technology * Internet Security -- The Good the Bad and the Ugly Jeffrey I. Schiller is the Internet Engineering Steering group's (IESG) Area Director for Security and oversees security related Working Groups of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF). * Cyber Law, Lance Rose, Attorney; contributor to _Wired_ * Update on the World Intellectual Property Organization * Emerging Legal and Public Policy Issues in Developing the National Health Information Infrastructure. Kathleen A. Frawley Director of the Washington, D.C., Office of the American Health Information Management Association * Information Security, Privacy, and Data Integrity Bob Frankston, co-creator of Visicalc, advanced technology projects in the next generation of software at Microsoft. Michael Lesk, Computer Science Research Dept., Bellcore. Technical Program Sessions * Digital Electronic Security Tools in Assuring Data and Image Integrity * Electronic Course Reserves: Fair Use and Copyright Issues * Knowledge Management Databases: Managing Access and Security * Artists' Rights and Electronic Imagery * Protection and Rights Management Schemes for Digital Images * Information Security * International Differences in Information Policies * Privacy, Integrity and Security for the Holocaust Project Database * Privacy and Security Issues in Public Libraries * Issues in Information Privacy and Policy * Social Responsibility and Internet Resources * Policy Issues and Implications for Electronic Retrieval in "Public" Areas * Scientific Data Integrity: Problems and Solutions: Part 1: Biological Data; Part 2: Electronic Data Mgmt * Competitive Intelligence on the Internet: the Latest Techniques * Personal Privacy: an Oxymoron? * Quality of Knowledge -- Using AI Tools and Techniques in Data Mining * Accessing Government Information Continuing Education/Professional Development Saturday, May 31, 1997 * Copyright in an Electronic World , Mickie A. Voges, Chicago Kent School of Law * Preparing for the Explosion of JAVA on the World Wide Web, Micah Beck and Terry Moore, Univ. Tennessee Knoxville. Sunday June 1, 1997 * The Year 2000 Software Crisis: Practical Solutions (9:00 am -11:00am) David Eddy, Global Software , Carla Von Bernewitz, DoD Year 2000 Program Office , Dale Flecker, Harvard University * Harnessing New Technologies for Collaboration, (1:00pm to 5:00pm) Micah Beck and Terry Moore, Univ. Tennessee Knoxville * Introduction to Image Databases, Howard Besser, University of Michigan * Building the Virtual "Intranet" Knowledge Center, Howard McQueen, McQueen Associates * From Boolean/Thesaurus to Non/Boolean/ Free Text Searching: An Information Survey in Historical Perspective, Ev Brenner * Introduction to Computer and Network Security, Michael R. Leach, Harvard University Applied Physics Library, and Geoffrey W. McKim, McKim Group * Data Communications: Understanding the Basics, James E. Rush, Palinet * ASIS Leadership Development Program: Meeting Facilitation (10:00am - Noon) Bonnie Carroll, Information International Associates Tours Friday, May 30: Sedona & Oak Creek Canyon Saturday, May 31: * Frank Lloyd Wright's Taliesin West, * The Heard Museum, * Scottsdale Shopping Sunday, June 1: * Biosphere 2, * Scottsdale Shopping Tuesday, June 3: * An Evening in the Old West - Rawhide ASIS Conference Headquarters - The Radisson Resort Scottsdale Rates: $85.00 single or double occupancy. For reservations Call: (602) 991-3800 or 1(800) 333-3333 Radisson Resort Scottsdale, 7171 North Scottsdale Road, Scottsdale, AZ 85253-3696 American Society for Information Science 8720 Georgia Avenue, Suite 501 Silver Spring, MD 20910 FAX: (301) 495-0810 VOICE: (301) 495-0810 meetings @asis.org http://www.asis.org/ http://www.asis.org/midyear-97/index.html Richard Hill Executive Director, American Society for Information Science 8720 Georgia Avenue, Suite 501 Silver Spring, MD 20910 FAX: (301) 495-0810 Voice: (301) 495-0900 rhill@asis.org http://www.asis.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 18:49:31 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Angela Howard Subject: Re: What else we do? This is a fascinating thread! I moonlight as an indexer of computer software books, and the other things I do are (not necessarily in this order!): - work at my day job as a technical writer - play with my 5 year old daughter - go hiking - draw, mostly in colored pencil - write in various calligraphic alphabets - go on "dates" with my husband whenever we can possibly arrange them - read, read, read (of course!), in short bits, whenever I can - participate in my local STC chapter Now that I actually write all this down, I have no idea how I do all of it. At least now I know why I'm going nuts! ;-) I, too, would be interested in other people's reading recommendations, either on- or off-list. ___________________________________ Angela M. Howard Technical Writing and Indexing IndexAH@aol.com ___________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 20:13:52 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah H Lemaire Subject: Re: Combining work with small kids In-Reply-To: <199702191637.AA09102@world.std.com> Well, I don't think I have anything new to add - I use a lot of the suggestions that people have already made. I have three boys, ages 10, 8, 4. The youngest only goes to school two days now but it will be four badly needed days (for me) in September. Since I started freelancing (copyediting first starting in 1991, but lately many indexing jobs - all small books - and soon three developmental editing books in a row), my husband took over bedtime. It's now a sacred cow. Since October, he's been reading to them from Tolkien every night - Lord of the Rings trilogy and The Hobbit. When he went awyay, I had instructions to read something else since my husband would lose his place, so we discovered a cool book that many of you have probably already heard of: The Phantom Tollbooth. What a find!! Freelancing is crazy with toddlers and babies. I had my third in the middle of my freelance career and when I was called after 6 weeks to resume work on a long-term project, they later told me "You sounded so tired I hated even asking you to go back to work." Anyway, as my boys grow older and have after-school activities, I find that freelancing is ideal. I enjoy being alone (a rare event) but I like being home to keep the boys on track with homework, activities, friends. We live in a good school district but I've heard drugs and alcohol are rampant so in a few years, I'm pretty sure that being home will be really useful. My oldest is very independent, wanting to grow up fast, and showing signs of rebellion already. I think he's going to need watching. I have many friends who are intelligent, well-educated women who gave up their careers and now that their children are in school, are having a hard time finding jobs that mesh with the kids schedule. They always tell me how lucky I am and at times, I don't realize it or appreciate it. But be patient because I think it will be worth it in a few years. That's what keeps me going. I am going to cut down on my volunteer activities next year. What else I do: copyediting/developmental editing edit the monthly elementary school newsletter help in computer labs at school play on a women's squash team teaching Sunday School Play a computer game called Sparkz go to PTSO meetings drive kids everywhere listen to Mary Chapin Carpenter's CDs Sarah ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 19:43:52 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Willa MacAllen Organization: MacAllen's Information Service Subject: What else do we do? What a wonderful thread! Professionally: Originally started out as a, scretary, then a Librarian, but now trying to get some work doing indexing and proofreading. In the meantime, anxiously waiting for proposals for 2 cataloging projects to be approved..) Personally (where to begin?): 1) Have lead hiking trips (hiking/snowshoeing) for the Appalachian Mountain Club for the past 15 years--usually 2-day weekends, but the trips to Monhegan Island in Maine are 4 days in length. Will be taking a group of 14 people to North Conway this weekend for some beginner snowshoeing. 2) When I'm not away hiking on a weekend, I'm likely walking with a friend locally or at a local contra dance on Saturday nite. (Dance Flurry was a wonderful break consisting of folk singing, dancing, learning to play the bodran, and seeing dancing friends.) 3) Attend church (when I'm home on weekends) and support 1 committee which plans Religious Education programs that meet for 6 weeks in the spring and 6 weeks in the fall. 4) Keep in touch with friends 5) Read books 6) Watch movies, either at a movie theater or on the vcr 7) Try to keep on top of various email lists 8) Try to find time to clean my desk once in a while I'd also enjoy talking with any others who have similar interests by email. Willa MacAllen MacAllen's Information Services Librarian/Technical Writer Boston macallen@tiac.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 18:05:19 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Possible Marketing Help I received an interesting flyer in the mail today from what looks like a legitimate organization selling specialized mailing lists/labels geared to publishing freelancers. The company, Independent Publishing Resources, claims it provides over 50% more publishers' contact names than LMP, and that the lists include no single-book publishers or companies that do all their own work in-house. You can buy lists by U.S. region or the entire U.S.; by subject matter of books published, or by size of publisher. All entries have been verified as of January 1, 1997, and the lists can be had in a variety of computer formats or directly on labels. The lists start at $79.00 (for elementary and secondary school publishers) up to $449 for all U.S. publishers (5365 entries). Yearly updates run from $49 to $79. I understand that personal names are given; these are not just generic "Editorial Dept." type labels. Contact information, for anybody who might find this useful: Independent Publishing Resources P.O. Box 5208 Wakefield, RI 02880 Voice phone: (401) 789-1484 Fax: (401) 789-3506 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 21:27:11 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary Beth Kiss Subject: Re: What else do we do? In a message dated 97-02-19 20:31:20 EST, you write: My first message to the list and I get to describe what else I do? ! First, I just moved to the West Coast after spending all my life on the East Coast and the last 10 years in my dream job. I was a librarian and also a photo archivist in charge of a collection of over 450,000 military related photographs. I also indexed the two periodicals we produced in house. I miss my photographs (yes, they became very dear to me. :-) ) But my new (there is no old one) husband is Navy and he got transferred, what are you going to do? My husband just left for a 6 month deployment and I am trying to find things to occupy my time in this new environment. I'm trying to establish a free-lance indexing business, market my old company free-lance, and get together a resume after 10 years of not needing one. When I'm not trying to figure out how this home-based business stuff is supposed to work, I * surf the net for new sources * get together with the other Navy wives whose husbands are on deployment and commiserate (You should've seen us on Valentine's!) * Read biographies (Currently Walter Cronkite's) * Exercise (I'm determined to lose those "few" pounds before my husband comes home. ) * Drive, I'm trying to find my way around this place! * Tutor students on America On-line in Military and Naval Science subjects and Information Resources. Mary Beth PS Can anyone clarify the difference between editing, proofreading, and copyediting? I was an editor for these two magazines back East but I did all three of these tasks--how are they broken apart? Also, anyone with book sources on periodical indexing? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 01:56:31 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth <106234.1745@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: What else do we do? I wasn't going to take part in this because I felt ashamed of not doing all the virtuous and energetic things that other people have listed! I'm pretty sedentary, but here goes anyway. First my background: after graduating, various dead-end jobs, then seven years at Consumers' Association, in Membership Services department, dealing with consumer problems. Escaped from that into in-house publishing, gaining editorial experience first in books, then periodicals. During this time, started indexing as a sideline. When I left my last fulltime job because of pregnancy, I started getting into indexing more deeply, and since then it has accounted for most of my working time, with occasional translation, copy-editing and proofreading. What else do I do? Lots of work for the (UK) Society of Indexers, most recently as Secretary; attend meetings, letters, phonecalls. Edit 'Indexes reviewed' section in The Indexer. Try to keep track of teenage daughter, who is constantly in and out of the house with her friends. Hate housework, so employ cleaning lady, doing only basic things myself. Try to get out of the house for at least half an hour or so every day (usually forgetting to switch on answering machine), to buy papers and shop for anything we have run out of (major shopping trip on Saturdays). Make resolutions to start regular swimming again, do filing and accounts, go to art galleries, see more of my friends, get out more in general. For recreation: Read two daily papers, one Sunday and four weeklies, apart from other publications related to work. Books - I have a stack of 15 or so to be read at any one time, of which I am usually reading 3 or 4 alternately. Watch TV - NOT the news, it's too depressing: old films, soaps, hospital/police/courtroom dramas, comedies, documentaries. While working I have the radio on - talk shows if not too distracting from work, music (classical, jazz, country), or play tapes and CDs - Schubert, Mozart, Thomas Tallis, Hildegard of Bingen, Ravi Shankar, Van Morrison, Willie Nelson, Joni Mitchell... Occasionally see productions at local theatres, even more occasionally in West End (London). Try to get some sleep - I always wake early, and try to use the time constructively by reading/writing email messages before breakfast, so this means I may need a half-hour nap after lunch, hoping no one will ring up. Curse the London weather, and plan holidays - currently my first trip to Turkey, due end of May. An hour or two with friends in the local pub on Friday evenings and sometimes Sunday lunchtimes. Christine ************************************************************************** Christine Shuttleworth Indexing and Editorial Services Flat 1 25 St Stephen's Avenue London W12 8JB Tel/Fax (+44 181) 749 8797 email 106234.1745@compuserve.com ************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 04:32:42 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Willa MacAllen Organization: MacAllen's Information Service Subject: Special Interest SIG Is there any interest in forming a SIG on Special Interests? For example, I know that trail guides get indexed (at least those published by the AMC do) as well as cook books, how to books, etc. How many on the list are indexing special topics such as those? Is there enough interest to form a SIG? It would be interesting to learn what specialties you are involved with. If you are interested in forming a SIG, let me know by email. Willa MacAllen MacAllen's Information Services Librarian/Technical Writer Boston macallen@tiac.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 08:52:13 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LostinWI@AOL.COM Subject: Re: ordering from Macrex I, too, tried to order a demo from Macrex and was unsuccessful. It was THE reason I decided not to pursue the purchase of this program. As I've been catching up on my email, I've been surprised at the strong similarities between my experience and those of others on the list. My story involves hearing about checks lost in the mail, the CA postoffice in various stages of disarray, personal difficulties, and being "out of town". This happened from roughly April-October of '96, so it could be all of us were trying to purchase demos at this time, or ............ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 10:17:13 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Subject: ASI Annual Meeting (long) Food for Thought American Society of Indexers 29th Annual Meeting May 14-17, 1997 Hawthorne Inn, Winston-Salem, NC Joining us as our keynote speaker will be Julia Child, well known for her television series and cookbooks. As an author, Mrs. Child (an ASI member) feels that indexes are an important part of cookbooks. As she says in the foreword to The Way to Cook, "A reference or teaching book is only as good as its index." Preconference Workshops and Roundtables Wednesday, May 14 and Thursday, May 15 For newer indexers and those considering becoming an indexer, there will be an introductory indexing workshop during the mornings. Workshops on basic techniques using the indexing software packages MACREX and CINDEX will be held in the afternoons. More experienced software users may wish to build their skills in workshops on advanced techniques with MACREX or CINDEX. "Ask an Indexer" roundtables for those who want to talk with an experienced indexer about specific questions will be offered both days over lunch. General Sessions, Conference Workshops, and Roundtables Friday, May 16 and Saturday, May 17 The general sessions (one each morning) will include: "How It Used to Be - The Way We Worked," a panel of veteran indexers who will discuss their experiences as their careers developed; "Indexing the Airwaves: How NPR Considers All Things;" "3,000,000 Images - Real World Application of Indexing Theory," about digitizing and indexing of General Motors' collection of images; "Cooking Up an Index," a panel discussion on cookbook indexing; "Beyond Indexing in Microsoft Office - The Answer Wizard;" and "The Way It Is - Where We Might Be Going," a look at future trends. Roundtables on a number of topics will take place each day over lunch. Three concurrent workshops each afternoon will be on cookbook indexing, term selection for different audiences, the book publishing process, teaching indexing, tax considerations for independent contractors, and editing indexes. There will be a reception with Julia Child on Friday evening at the Sawtooth Center, a nearby art gallery. Dinner will follow the reception with an address by Mrs. Child. Presenters: Julia Child, Vicky Agee, Jane Maddocks, Gale Rhoades, Maria Sullivan Young, Elinor Lindheimer, Jessica Milstead, Alexandra Nickerson, Janet Perlman, Do Mi Stauber, Ruth Schwer, Kim Schroeder, Anne Leach, Barbara Cohen, Carolyn McGovern, Diana Witt, Eric Hawley, Nancy Mulvany, Kay Banning, Linda Webster, Lillian Lea. Wednesday, May 14 Concurrent Workshops 8:30-11:45 a.m. Introduction to Indexing, Part I (8:30-11:45 a.m.) Vicky Agee, Freelance Indexer and USDA Basic Indexing Instructor, Albuquerque, NM Jane Maddocks, Freelance Indexer and USDA Basic Indexing Instructor, Reston, VA A practical introduction to the art of book indexing, including entry structure, alphabetization, cross-references, style, and format. Workshop participants will do hands-on exercises to get "real world" experience with writing indexes. Registrants will participate in both Part I and Part II (Thursday a.m.). Advanced Techniques with MACREX (8:30-11:45 a.m.) Gale Rhoades, North American Publisher of MACREX, Daly City, CA Learn techniques to improve your productivity, eliminate repetitive tasks, create multiple indexes in a single pass, utilize volume/page numbers for non-book materials, and index without final folios. Roundtables 12:00 noon-1:45 p.m. Ask an Indexer Roundtables (includes lunch) Informal question-and-answer sessions with experienced indexers Workshop 2:00-5:15 p.m. Basic MACREX Techniques Workshop Gale Rhoades, North American Publisher of MACREX, Daly City, CA Creating your first index using MACREX: keyboard macros and keywords for double-posting and other tasks, spell-checking, multitasking using MACREX with Windows, and preparing electronic copy for submission to publishers. Thursday, May 15 Concurrent Workshops 8:30-11:45 a.m. Introduction to Indexing, Part II (continuation of Wed. a.m. workshop) (8:30-11:45 a.m.) Vicky Agee and Jane Maddocks Advanced Techniques with CINDEX (8:30-11:45 a.m.) Maria Sullivan Young, Freelance Indexer, CINDEX Trainer and On-line Technical Support Provider, Rochester, NY Explore advanced index management techniques and problem-solving approaches as well as handling large indexes; working with temporary pagination, revisions, and cumulations; and splitting indexes. Roundtables 12:00 noon-1:45 p.m. Ask an Indexer Roundtables (includes lunch) Informal question-and-answer sessions with experienced indexers Workshop 2:00-5:15 p.m. Basic CINDEX Techniques Workshop Maria Sullivan Young CINDEX basics from getting started to final copy. An overview of what the program can do with special emphasis on data entry shortcuts, basic editing techniques, and preparing a typesetting file for your client. Friday, May 16 General Session 8:30-11:45 a.m. How It Used to Be - The Way We Worked: Panel Discussion Vicky Agee, Freelance Indexer, Albuquerque, NM Elinor Lindheimer, Freelance Indexer, Mendocino, CA Jessica Milstead, Consultant, Brookfield, CT Alexandra Nickerson, Freelance Indexer, Cincinnati, OH Janet Perlman, Freelance Indexer, Scottsdale, AZ Do Mi Stauber, Moderator, Freelance Indexer, Eugene, OR Indexing the Airwaves: How NPR Considers All Things Ruth Schwer, Broadcast Librarian, National Public Radio, Washington, DC 3,000,000 Images: Real World Application of Indexing Theory Kim Schroeder, Head Archivist, General Motors Concurrent Roundtable Discussions (includes lunch) 12:00 noon-1:45 p.m. CD-ROM Indexing Certification of Indexers Embedded Indexing Establishing Special Interest Groups for Indexers Feast or Famine - Managing the Flow of Your Work Finding Work Reference Sources for Indexers Research on Indexing Volunteer Projects - Providing a Professional Finish Concurrent Workshops 2:00-5:15 p.m. Cookbook Indexing (2:00-5:15 p.m.) Elinor Lindheimer, Freelance Indexer, Mendocino, CA This workshop will teach you how to deal with the challenges presented by cookbook indexing to create a useful index. Specific issues in indexing ethnic, specialty, and general cookbooks will be addressed. Considering Your Audience for a Quality Index (2:00-5:15 p.m.) Anne Leach, Freelance Indexer, Bermuda Dunes, CA Anne will discuss term selection for the multiple audiences for each of the following types of works: technical material, textbooks, and scholarly publications. Exercises will include examples from published indexes including Wilson Award winners. Publishing Essentials for Indexers (2:00-5:15 p.m.) Barbara Cohen, Freelance Indexer and Copyeditor, Champaign, IL Carolyn McGovern, Freelance Indexer and Copyeditor, Walnut Creek, CA What do you need to know about the publishing process to do a professional job on an index? How much of the Chicago Manual of Style should you be familiar with? Learn about copyediting conventions and in-house practices from two veteran indexers and copyeditors. Reception at the Sawtooth Building 5:30-7:00 p.m. Meet Julia Child Dinner at the Sawtooth Building 7:00-9:00 p.m. Address by Julia Child Saturday, May 17 General Session 8:30-11:45 a.m. Cooking Up An Index: Panel Discussion Julia Child, Author, Cambridge, MA Elinor Lindheimer, Freelance Indexer, Mendocino, CA Diana Witt, Moderator, Freelance Indexer, Minneapolis, MN Beyond Indexing in Microsoft Word - The Answer Wizard Eric Hawley, Technical Editor, Microsoft Corporation, Redmond, WA The Way It Is - Where We Might Be Going Nancy Mulvany, Freelance Indexer, Author, and Instructor of Indexing, Kensington, CA Roundtable Discussions (includes lunch) 12:00 noon-1:45 p.m. Internet Resources for Indexers Is the Price Right? Issues in Determining Rates Marketing Your Indexing Services Marking Up Proof Master Indexes - Indexing Multiple Documents One-Pass Indexing for Both Electronic and Print Media Thesauri in a Full-Text World Working with Assistants in an Indexing Office Encore Performances - How to Get the Editor to Hire You Again Usability Testing Concurrent Workshops 2:00-5:15 p.m. Methods and Materials for the Teaching of Indexing (2:00-5:15 p.m.) Nancy Mulvany, Freelance Indexer, Author, Instructor of Indexing, Kensington, CA Nancy will present an overview of the various methods she has used for the indexing courses she has taught for more than ten years. The philosophy behind her structured approach to teaching will be explored. Participants will be invited to share their own experiences as well. Editing the Index: Decisions, Decisions, Decisions! (2:00-5:15 p.m.) Kay Banning, Freelance Indexer, San Marcos, TX Linda Webster, Freelance Indexer and Instructor of Indexing, Austin, TX This intermediate-level workshop will provide editing techniques and checklists with examples from a variety of subject fields in both book and journal indexing. Practical suggestions and hands-on exercises will address wording of main headings and subheadings, conceptual structure of the index, cross-references, and length of the index. It's April 15 - Do You Know Where Your Deductions Are? (2:00-5:15 p.m.) Lillian Lea, Enrolled Agent, Berkeley, CA Lillian, whose clients are primarily freelancers, will discuss taxes and recordkeeping with an emphasis on issues pertinent to independent contractors. Exhibitors/Advertisers For information on exhibits, portfolio inserts, program advertisements, resource table submissions or corporate sponsorship, please contact : Barbara Cohen, Publicity Coordinator 1708 Ridgeland Drive Champaign, IL 61821-5452 Phone: 217-398-1220 e-mail: becohen@prairienet.org Travel to Winston-Salem Most of the major airlines service the Greensboro airport, which is approximately 30 minutes from Winston-Salem by ground. Air service directly to Winston-Salem is available by commuter flight. Ground transportation is available from both the Greensboro and Winston-Salem airports; the Hawthorne Inn provides complimentary transportation from the Winston-Salem airport. USAir is offering a 5% discount off the lowest published round-trip fares into Greensboro and Winston-Salem for ASI attendees. The discount is valid for travel from May 10-May 20; tickets may be issued by your travel agent or you may call USAir at 800-334-8644. Refer to Gold File # 20630058. Please make the effort to use this ID number if you choose USAir as ASI will benefit if a sufficent number of our members use the number when making their reservations. For those planning to drive to Winston-Salem, a map of the area will be included with your registration confirmation. Tours, outings, and informal groups A table will be provided to sign up for local tours or arrange outings with others. Special interest groups may also post meeting times here. Conference Hotel Hawthorne Inn 420 High Street Winston-Salem, NC 27101 Phone: 800-972-3774 or 910-777-3000 Fax: 910-777-3282 The conference rate is $72.00 plus 12% tax per night for single/double occupancy and includes a continental breakfast and newspaper. This rate is guaranteed until April 23, 1997. Reservations made after this date are not guaranteed the convention rate and will be honored on a space-available basis. When calling for reservations, state that you are attending the ASI meeting to receive the conference rate. Make your reservations early since the Wake Forest graduation will take place the weekend following our meeting and the hotel expects to fill up early. Registration & Payment Please enclose payment in full with your registration. The registration fee must be paid by all attendees. Partial payments and faxed registrations cannot be accepted. Hotel reservations must be made separately, directly with the hotel. Make checks or money orders payable to the American Society of Indexers. ****NOTE: Please do not send your registration to the ASI Administrative office.**** Send payment to: Sandra Topping, Registrar 2508 Pebble Beach Drive Valparaiso, IN 46383-0400 Phone: 219-462-8853 E-mail questions to: SCTopping@aol.com ***registration forms can not be sent via email.*** ***Please do not send your registration to the ASI Administrative office*** Registration Form Print this form and return it to the address above. Payment must accompany this form. For this reason, forms will not be accepted via email. Name _____________________________________________________________________ Preferred first name for conference badge _____________________________________________________________________ Organization _____________________________________________________________________ Street address _____________________________________________________________________ City State Zip code _____________________________________________________________________ Daytime phone ________________________________ Fax ________________________________ E-mail address ________________________________ Postmarked before 4/1/97 Postmarked on or after 4/1/97 Amount ASI members Non-ASI ASI members Non-ASI members members Conference Registration $90.00 $110.00 $110.00 $130.00 (includes general sessions and Fri. eve. reception):* ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dinner, Fri., May 16: $35.00 $40.00 $40.00 $45.00 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Introduction to Indexing $85.00 $105.00 $105.00 $125.00 workshop (total for parts I &II): ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - All other workshops, each: $50.00 $60.00 $60.00 $70.00 (how many _____) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Roundtables (includes lunch), $20.00 $25.00 $25.00 $30.00 each: (how many _____) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Total enclosed: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - * Anyone attending workshops, roundtables, or Friday evening dinner must pay the conference registration fee. Workshops, roundtable discussions, and the Friday evening dinner are limited and will be filled on a first-received basis on receipt of the completed registration form and registration fee plus fees for workshops, roundtables, and/or dinner. Workshop choices (Due to space limitations, please indicate your first, second, and third choices for Friday and Saturday workshops.) Wednesday, May 14: a.m. ____________________________ p.m. ____________________________ Thursday, May 15: a.m. ____________________________ p.m. ____________________________ Friday, May 16: 1.____________________________ 2.____________________________ 3.____________________________ Saturday, May 17: 1.____________________________ 2.____________________________ 3.____________________________ Roundtable discussion choices(Due to space limitations, please indicate your first, second, and third choices for Friday and Saturday roundtables.) Wednesday, May 14: ____________________________ Thursday, May 15: ____________________________ Friday, May 16: 1.____________________________ 2.____________________________ 3.____________________________ Saturday, May 17: 1.____________________________ 2.____________________________ 3.____________________________ We will add roundtables on Thursday whenever possible to accommodate attendees' preferences if Friday and Saturday roundtables are over-subscribed. Would you be willing to attend a roundtable on Thursday if your preference(s) is(are) not available on Friday or Saturday? ______ Would you like to attend a third roundtable if one of your choices is added on Thursday?______ We will contact you in the event that a roundtable you have selected becomes available on Thursday. Do you plan to attend the Friday evening reception (no extra charge)?______ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 09:35:41 -0800 Reply-To: patsher@trib.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pat Sherwood Subject: What else do you do? Good morning, all -- I, too, have been enjoying this thread, and decided to finally reply to a message after several months of lurking and learning. I'm a newbie indexer working on just my third book, a 1400 pp. scholarly work, and enjoying it tremendously. I've been a little reluctant to speak up because my background seems to be so different from most of you, but what the heck, it works for me. In my "other life" I am a potter. You know, make pots from clay? When I tell editors what else I do, they kind of look at me funny and shake their heads, but so far they like the indexes -- and I like doing them. I still think it's kind of strange myself, but it sure works for me. Making pots entails a lot of physical work in reclaiming and preparing the clay, lifting 50- and 100-lb. bags of materials used in making glazes, repairing equipment, loading and unloading heavy pots into kilns for firing, cleaning the studio, etc. etc. etc. Probably only about 15% of the total time required to make pots is spent in actually throwing them on the wheel. So I find indexing, with its inherent "head stuff" demands to be the perfect foil to the "physicality" of being a potter. Also, since I am an independent studio potter, I am free to schedule my studio time around the deadlines inherent in indexing. Works out well! Other than that, I teach ceramics (pottery-making) at a nearby community college two days a week. And between times, I help as needed managing the business my husband and I have owned for the past twenty-some years. The pottery and indexing are both relatively recent life changes. I accepted an early retirement package in 1990 (after working in business for nearly 35 years, first as a secretary, later managing a warehouse and purchasing department at a coal-fired power plant) and went back to school to finish the college degree I'd started years before. In the first part of my married life, we raised 5 kids (all now grown, with one back at home again, temporarily, I hope). We have 8 grandchildren, 4 of whom live in town here, so I do the grandma thing from time to time, and -- in the summertime, crew for my husband at the (dragstrip) racetrack. I even raced for a little while, got my NHRA racer's numbers on my 51st birthday, just for fun, a few years back. Anyway, thank you all for being here. I live in Wyoming, and it's pretty isolated here, both physically and culturally (there are only about 450,000 people in the whole state), and I can tell you that it helps a lot to be able to "talk" with other indexers! (There are people here in town *population 2500* who don't even know what indexers do! I've even had people ask me what an index IS, for heaven's sake)! Oh, well. It's peaceful here. And UPS and FedEx deliver. And the internet is only a few keystrokes away. Thank goodness for e-mail, and for telephones, and being able to send files to publishers electronically! And, I can ship FedEx overnight with only a 45-minute drive into the next town.) Hey-- maybe I'm not as isolated as I thought! Well, thanks for letting me ramble. It's nice to meet you, and I look forward to being able to meet some of you in person when I can get enough bucks together to be able to attend a conference somewhere. Pat Sherwood Sherwood Indexing patsher@trib.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 11:19:50 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Marketing, record keeping for I am interested in knowing the following about your marketing record-keeping strategies and other such things related to marketing (we talked on INDEX-L about keeping indexes and storing them according to a system, so...): 1. Do you keep the contact names and addresses in a database? If so , which software is best? (I use CINDEX, believe it or not, for this). 2. Do you keep a record of date of contact, response, etc.? What else do you keep in the record about the contact? 3. Do you recontact publishers even if you have never heard a thing from them from previous marketing attempts? Is it generally worth it to do this? 4. If you market often, how often do you send out information packets? (I send things out about every three months). Would monthly be a better bet? 5. Do you send CVs/resumes in your marketing packets? Brochures? 6. I know we have discussed cold calls, calls following marketing materials being sent, etc. I have found that cold calling and calling general is rarely effective, but it would be nice to find out what percentage of the time one might hope to get work via this route? Does anyone have anything to share on this? ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer cbertel@usit.net http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 12:07:05 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kay Schlembach Subject: Re: Combining work with large families and high stress Interesting thread from Do Mi about homeschooling and indexing. Anyone else integrating these jobs? Also, is anyone indexing while raising a large family? We are a blended family with 5 kids between the ages of 10 and 13. Presently, I am a novice indexer , completing the USDA couse and working with an experienced indexer. Peace, Kay Kutscha Schlembach ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 15:59:03 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Marketing, record keeping for Cynthia, Good questions. I'll give you the benefit of my experience here: 1. Do you keep the contact names and addresses in a database? I have one basic document in Word 6.0 to create a sheet for each publisher, with the name, address, phone, email address, style notes (very brief), file format they want the index sent in, usual rate, and their FedEx or USP account info if they give it to me. Basic stuff. Then I handwrite my notes each time I talk to them, with info on a project I accept, reject, etc. Each year I can spin off the same sheets to start clean, and I add in the new clients as I go. 2. Do you keep a record of date of contact, response, etc.? What else do you keep in the record about the contact? As you can see from the above, yes, pretty specific notes. 3. Do you recontact publishers even if you have never heard a thing from them from previous marketing attempts? Is it generally worth it to do this? Honestly, I don't. I don't have time to run after them this way. I've tried it, and it's never gotten me work, so I quit doing it. 4. If you market often, how often do you send out information packets? (I send things out about every three months). Would monthly be a better bet? I market when it gets slower, which isn't too often if I wait for a slow time. I do it at least twice a year if it's been a while and I haven't had a slow period. There are always new folks to contact. I keep a file with prospects, ads, etc, of folks I want to contact, plus there are directories from organizations I belong to, plus .... So there's always somebody to market to. But I make sure I do it twice a year. 5. Do you send CVs/resumes in your marketing packets? Brochures? I still use a resume, which is held down to 1 page, despite my long and checkered career <> and many years of work experience both in and out of the field. To that I append a 2-page list of books indexed, broken down by field, so that it is representative of the variety of work I've done. I have a list of references, but do not append that with the marketing packets. I'm toying with the idea of going to a brochure, but haven't done so yet. I'll be interested in hearing others' answers to this. 6. I know we have discussed cold calls, calls following marketing materials being sent, etc. I have found that cold calling and calling general is rarely effective, but it would be nice to find out what percentage of the time one might hope to get work via this route? Does anyone have anything to share on this? Cold calls -- forget it!! I've found them to be useless. I know there are others who disagree with me on this. Perhaps they have phone techniques I don't, or they pitch themselves in a different way. But for me it doesn't work, so I don't do it. Although I do get new clients from marketing, I also get new clients from referrals, both from indexing associates and from my own clients. I also market myself by putting listings into directories of organizations I belong to, and advertising in their newsletters, if I think it will be of benefit. I find that such listings do work in my favor. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing Scottsdale, AZ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 15:11:43 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Marketing, record keeping for At 11:19 AM 2/20/97 -0500, Cynthia Bertelsen wrote: >1. Do you keep the contact names and addresses in a database? If so , which >software is best? (I use CINDEX, believe it or not, for this). I use a very old program called One-Person Office to keep all my contact information. It also allows unlimited notes and comments to be appended to each contact's file. I can also sort by zip code, name, or any of various special codes I've created...to make a custom mailing list for a particular marketing effort. This works great for me, as I do several different kinds of work but only have to keep one database going. >2. Do you keep a record of date of contact, response, etc.? What else do >you keep in the record about the contact? I keep notes on when I've contacted people, what rates I've gotten for specific jobs, personal notes on people (like nickname or any personal tidbits I've gleaned during a previous call), and so on...anything that might be relevant for future use. Of course, some of this is in my paper files as well--on invoices, or quotes, or working papers for a specific job. But the notes in the database are gathered in one place and easy to access. >3. Do you recontact publishers even if you have never heard a thing from >them from previous marketing attempts? Is it generally worth it to do this? I normally keep trying with a specific company for at least a couple of years, but don't generally send out info more than every two or three months. For one thing, the book cycle usually lasts at least that long...if they have no work in the foreseeable future on March 1, they're not usually going to be inundated with indexing on April 1. And for another, I really don't want to be a pest. Mailing an item of interest generally seems less intrusive than phoning, so that's what I do...unless I can manufacture a really good reason to call. >5. Do you send CVs/resumes in your marketing packets? Brochures? What I send out really can't be called a "resume." I'm not real happy with my one-sheet qualifications list, and that's one of my projects as soon as I can get it revised and improved. Several people use brochures, and I think that's what I'd like to come up with. Also I think web pages are ideal for people like us, who would normally have to send a 10-20 page sample (or several) in order to show off our work. I envision setting up a web page with all the important information (works indexed or edited, references, computer equipment, areas of interest/skill, and so forth), along with clickable indexing samples in several different genres. A quick scan may be all an editor needs to be assured that you really CAN index microbiology textbooks; if not, let the publisher pay to print 20 pages from your web site (and get them instantly) rather than you sending what you =think= will be the right stuff, spending time to put it together for a dozen different people, and absorbing all the mailing costs and time lost. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 21:16:20 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol L Benson Subject: Macrex orders From: AgeeIndex@aol.com Received: from x14.boston.juno.com (x14.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.27]) by m3.boston.juno.com (8.6.13/8.7.Alpha.4/1.34.kim) with ESMTP id LAA15984 for ; Thu, 20 Feb 1997 11:06:50 -0500 Received: from emout02.mail.aol.com (emout02.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.93]) by x14.boston.juno.com (8.6.13/8.7.Alpha.4/1.34.kim) with ESMTP id LAA27265 for ; Thu, 20 Feb 1997 11:06:49 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout02.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id LAA26165 for carolbenson@juno.com; Thu, 20 Feb 1997 11:06:18 -0500 (EST) Return-path: AgeeIndex@aol.com To: carolbenson@juno.com Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 11:06:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Indexer names Message-ID: <970220110612_718241885@emout02.mail.aol.com> X-Status: Read News of Gale Rhoades at Macrex received from Vicky Agee I'll mention to Gale the disgruntlement on slowness of having orders filled. I know she has been ill recently (desperate enough to go to the doctor even) with an ulcer and she was also helping many folks in California after floods with crashes on their computer systems. In addition she had some flooding herself. She fills all the orders herself at this point, but is working on some solutions. Vicky I know I was much more patient once I understood the difficulties Gale was experiencing. Carol Benson Morrisville VT ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 00:06:23 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: Macrex orders I've got to say--I've had Macrex for seven or eight years and I love the program and the support I get. There've been times when I needed a lot of support, and Gale has gone way out of her way to help me. I'd never actually had a relationship with my software support person until Gale, and I am grateful for her expertise and devotion. She's also made suggestions that have streamlined my process, thus allowing me to make more money. Regards, Victoria ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 10:29:25 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joanne Clendenen Subject: Re: Marketing, record keeping for In response to Cynthia's questions: > I am interested in knowing the following about your marketing record-keeping > strategies and other such things related to marketing (we talked on INDEX-L > about keeping indexes and storing them according to a system, so...): > > 1. Do you keep the contact names and addresses in a database? If so , which > software is best? (I use CINDEX, believe it or not, for this). Yes, Microsoft Access, but the program is so huge, my small list is somewhat lost in it. I'm thinking of just moving it to Excel. > > 2. Do you keep a record of date of contact, response, etc.? What else do > you keep in the record about the contact? Yes. I try to get email addresses as well as phone numbers. This is getting easier. > > 3. Do you recontact publishers even if you have never heard a thing from > them from previous marketing attempts? Is it generally worth it to do this? So far, I haven't gotten any jobs from doing this, but I do make a check-in call every six months. > 4. If you market often, how often do you send out information packets? (I > send things out about every three months). Would monthly be a better bet? You're doing lots better than me. I really hate making that first cold call. I don't send stuff unless I get the go ahead on the phone. I try to call one new prospect every week during slow periods, but I tend to forget when I'm busy doing indexes. > 5. Do you send CVs/resumes in your marketing packets? Brochures? I send a qualifications brief that reads like a summary of services rendered, equipment used, and then experience and references. I also send my card,a sample index, or portion of an index and a selected list of books indexed (I choose ones that fit in with that publisher's specialties.) > > 6. I know we have discussed cold calls, calls following marketing materials > being sent, etc. I have found that cold calling and calling general is > rarely effective, but it would be nice to find out what percentage of the > time one might hope to get work via this route? Does anyone have anything > to share on this? The only statistic I can give you is that my first marketing project after finishing the indexing courses (and having my baby turn 2) included 12 initial contacts. As far as I could tell, I was put on five actual lists, and after nine months, I received my first indexing job. I garnered two continuing clients from this first attempt. In analyzing this single marketing project, you have to keep in mind that I had not done any indexes prior to this, except a volunteer project for a periodical. Basically, I think I had to wait until the indexers higher up on the list were unavailable, and the editor was in a panic. Then, after I did a wonderful job, on time and within space restrictions, I was moved to the top of the list. Joanne ********************** AfterWords Indexing Services 9597 Jones Rd. #113 Houston, TX 77065 (281) 469-4461 wsc-jec@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 11:49:50 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "John R. Sullivan" <104146.1652@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Inserting URLs into PDF documents On 2/20. Francis Steck asked: How do I create links (URL's) within PDF files? I'm using Acrobat 3.0, but the procedure for earlier versions must be similar. Essentially you set a URL link in the same way you set any link: Select the link icon and outline the area of text that will be the source of the link (usually the URL text). On the Create Link dialog, choose "World Wide Web Link" as the Action type; then click Edit URL to specify the target URL. Hope this helps. John R. Sullivan Concentric Data Systems jsulliva@walldata.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 12:20:06 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Simon <74064.301@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: What else we do? I've enjoyed this thread and decided it's time to contribute to it. When I'm not indexing, my day job is as a legal advocate for victims of domestic violence and sexual assault. I also sub at the library and do some freelance paralegal work. When I'm not working I spend a lot of time keeping in touch with online buddies (I hang out in the Mensa Forum and Crisis Forum on Compuserve), read (just finished Ken Follett's _The Third Twin_, didn't like it), grow herbs and make herbal medicines. I also like sewing, quilting, spinning, knitting, and weaving. Carolyn Simon, Hood River, OR ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 09:29:54 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Marketing, record keeping for At 10:29 AM 2/21/97 -0600, Joanne Clendenen wrote: >You're doing lots better than me. I really hate making that first cold >call. I don't send stuff unless I get the go ahead on the phone. I try to >call one new prospect every week during slow periods, but I tend to forget >when I'm busy doing indexes. Joanne, I do this just the other way around. I target potential clients and send them a packet of information BEFORE I call. In my cover letter, I say that I will be in touch within the next couple of weeks to answer any questions and discuss any possible assignments. Then, when I do call, it is not a "cold call" anymore...at least, from my perspective! Almost always, the person says something like, "Oh, yes. I got your mail and I was wondering...", which segues right into my little spiel. Or the person has sent my material to someone else in the company, whom I call. Same thing; he or she has already been "introduced" to me, so the call goes a lot easier. >I send a qualifications brief that reads like a summary of services >rendered, equipment used, and then experience and references. I also send >my card,a sample index, or portion of an index and a selected list of >books indexed (I choose ones that fit in with that publisher's >specialties.) That's about what I do, too. I wouldn't really call it a resume or c.v.; it's more like a description of my business. I have a feeling that two things are important to an editor perusing this sheet: one, that you index the kinds of books that person deals with; and two, that he or she recognize some of your clients' names. A legal publisher, for example, will be happy to see that I have both Matthew Bender and West on my list; this lets the potential client know that I have already done satisfactory work for two of the largest legal publishers in the U.S. OTOH, publishers seem much less interested in my equipment and services list; the fact that I have a modem or that I can produced typeset pages rarely elicits any kind of comment. In fact, I'm still dealing with a client base that, for the most part, is unfamiliar with most of the latest electronic capabilities such as sending index files electronically. Just a few months ago, I was still explaining to an editor at a very large company just what the difference was between ASCII and .RTF--and finally she had to put me in touch with the compositor because she didn't understand a word of what I was talking about. >The only statistic I can give you is that my first marketing project after >finishing the indexing courses (and having my baby turn 2) included 12 >initial contacts. As far as I could tell, I was put on five actual lists, >and after nine months, I received my first indexing job. I garnered two >continuing clients from this first attempt. In analyzing this single >marketing project, you have to keep in mind that I had not done any indexes >prior to this, except a volunteer project for a periodical. Basically, I >think I had to wait until the indexers higher up on the list were >unavailable, and the editor was in a panic. Then, after I did a wonderful >job, on time and within space restrictions, I was moved to the top of the >list. I think this is an exceptional result, Joanne! Getting put on five lists and producing two continuing clients from a marketing effort that involved only 12 contacts is extraordinary. Of course, as you point out, that only got your foot in the door. If you hadn't produced excellent work on time and within space limitations, your file would have ended up in the trash. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 12:58:33 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: TShere7566@AOL.COM Subject: Work and family--homeschooling Greetings! I'm a longtime lurker and new indexer (looking for my first job) who learns a great deal from the discussion. Thank you all--I'm looking forward to meeting some of you in Winston-Salem. I'm surfacing because I too combine indexing and homeschooling. It remains to be seen how it'll be when I've got paying work, but it works beautifully now. Homeschooling is one of the reasons I've chosen to become an indexer--I have to be 100% in charge of my schedule. But I also cheat, in a way. I have two children; my 13-year-old is the homeschooler. She doesn't need a lot of my time, and isn't hung up on a hard-and-fast schedule. My 6-year-old goes to public school--that's what I meant by cheating! I imagine getting indexing work done would be a lot more difficult if she too schooled at home. I'd be happy to talk to other homeschoolers off-list. Thanks again for your combined wisdom! Therese Shere ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 09:50:03 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah Lee Bihlmayer Subject: Re: Special Interest SIG Willa writes: >Is there any interest in forming a SIG on Special Interests? Call me a wag, but...I can't help but chuckle when I realize that the full unabbreviated name of the proposed group would be the Special Interest Special Interest Group (is there an echo in here?) Sarah |Sarah Lee Bihlmayer * Intranet Documentation Specialist | |Site Development * Content Creation * Content Management| | Technical Writing * Developmental Editing * Indexing | | 415-207-4046 * sarahlee@contentmanage.com | ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 13:32:13 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David G. Miller" Subject: Re: Special Interest SIG Thank you, Sarah! I wondered how long it would take before someone commented on the silliness of that inquiry. --------------------------( Forwarded letter 1 follows )--------------------- X-Router: (TAO/SMTP Gateway 1.1.36) Received: from stortek.stortek.com by CCSVM.STORTEK.COM (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Fri, 21 Feb 97 10:59:18 MST Received: from VMS.DC.LSOFT.COM (vms.dc.lsoft.com [206.241.12.2]) by stortek.stortek.com (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA24403 for ; Fri, 21 Feb 1997 10:59:24 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199702211759.KAA24403@stortek.stortek.com> Received: from vms.dc.lsoft.com by VMS.DC.LSOFT.COM (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id <8.8581340E@VMS.DC.LSOFT.COM>; Fri, 21 Feb 1997 12:59:22 -0500 Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 09:50:03 -0800 Reply-To: "Indexer's Discussion Group" Sender: "Indexer's Discussion Group" From: Sarah Lee Bihlmayer Subject: Re: Special Interest SIG X-To: INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Willa writes: >Is there any interest in forming a SIG on Special Interests? Call me a wag, but...I can't help but chuckle when I realize that the full unabbreviated name of the proposed group would be the Special Interest Special Interest Group (is there an echo in here?) Sarah |Sarah Lee Bihlmayer * Intranet Documentation Specialist | |Site Development * Content Creation * Content Management| | Technical Writing * Developmental Editing * Indexing | | 415-207-4046 * sarahlee@contentmanage.com | ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 14:28:15 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lawrenc846@AOL.COM Subject: Re: What else we do? I missed the beginning of this thread, including the initial inquiry (I was abroad for 26 days and had suspended INDEX-L for that period) but judging from recent responses the nature of the inquiry, I would like to offer my own response. What else do I do? I'm a freelance archival investigator (this actually is the largest part of my income). I search archives, often Hispanic or Hispanic American archives, for information on past events. These have often been disasters- I've done volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, shipwrecks and aspects of the Holocaust against the Jews in World War II. But there have been other subjects as well. Thus last year I was at the Archivo General de Simancas looking for information, from Spanish diplomatic files, on the English colony of Jamestown (and finding it too). I also write books. My last published work was: MOUNTAINS OF FIRE, LANDS THAT SHAKE (on earthquakes in Central America). I finished in 1995 a work for hire (tentative title: LOST SHORES AND FORGOTTEN PEOPLES) on the 17th century lowland Maya that I hope will be published sometime soon. I recently submitted to a press a volume on looking for shipwrecks in Hispanic archives and am currently working on a book concerning events in 20th century Spain. I have more than 100 publications, including more than 10 books, most of which are obscure scholarly tomes. Recently I did a series of travel pieces for several newspapers. I've been indexing other peoples books since about 1992. I index several books a year, not as many as I would like, but perhaps the number will increase over time. No wife, no children, no pets and no car. Just a life filled with interesting projects in sometimes strange places, Larry Feldman Lawrenc846@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 17:10:42 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "" Subject: News from SOLUTIONS, Inc. Dear Indexing List Subscribers: SOLUTIONS, Inc., the largest provider of training for technical, marketing, and business communication, would like to send each of you a copy of its award-winning WRITER'S REFERENCE CARD. Newly updated, the card is a handy guide to punctuation, usage, and more. Just reply to this e-mail with your name, address, and phone and fax numbers, and we'll send you a copy of the card. We thought you'd also like to know about SOLUTIONS' upcoming seminars aimed at technical writers, editors and indexers. Whether you're new to your field or have many years of experience, we have seminars that will teach you new techniques and sharpen your skills. All seminars are developed and taught by practicing professionals who are leading experts in their areas. *"Indexing Skills for Technical Communicators," led by LORI LATHROP Learn a step-by-step approach to developing clear, concise, and useful indexes for both print and online delivery. Boston, March 24 New York, March 26 Washington, D.C., March 27 Seattle, April 28 San Francisco, April 30 Los Angeles, May 2 Orlando, June 9 Chicago, June 11 Denver, June 13 *"Essentials of Editing: How to Edit Print and Online Documents," led by JUDITH TARUTZ Shows you what to look for when you edit a technical information product. Intended for editors and for writers who perform peer edits. New York, June 16 *"Editing for Impact," led by JUDITH TARUTZ Explains how to make your edits count. Intended for editors and writers who perform peer edits, this seminar shows you how to improve usability and quality in ways that matter to your company, even with limited resources. New York, June 17 For more information, call SOLUTIONS at 1-800-448-4230 or (617) 942-1610, send e-mail to the above address, or check www.sol-sems.com. To register, call us or use the online form on our web site. Finally, to help you save money on professional training, SOLUTIONS and WinWriters - the leading providers of up-to-the minute information for Help developers - have formed the Help Training Partner Program. This reciprocal agreement allows attendees of any SOLUTIONS seminar to receive a $50 certificate good toward a WinWriters conference; and attendees of any WinWriters event receive a certificate worth $50 off a SOLUTIONS seminar. Help Training Partner Program discounts can be combined with other discounts, so your savings can be considerable. For more details, please contact SOLUTIONS (800-448-4230) or WinWriters (800-838-8999, www.winwriters.com). Niels Aaboe SOLUTIONS, Inc. 800-448-4230 617-942-1610 617-942-1616 fax naaboe@world.std.com http://www.sol-sems.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 14:25:23 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rebecca Bowen Subject: Re: News from SOLUTIONS, Inc. Please send a copy of the card to the address below. At 05:10 PM 2/21/97 +0000, you wrote: >Dear Indexing List Subscribers: > >SOLUTIONS, Inc., the largest provider of training for technical, >marketing, and business communication, would like to send each of >you a copy of its award-winning WRITER'S REFERENCE CARD. Newly >updated, the card is a handy guide to punctuation, usage, and more. >Just reply to this e-mail with your name, address, and phone and fax >numbers, and we'll send you a copy of the card. > >We thought you'd also like to know about SOLUTIONS' upcoming seminars >aimed at technical writers, editors and indexers. Whether you're new >to your field or have many years of experience, we have seminars that >will teach you new techniques and sharpen your skills. All seminars >are developed and taught by practicing professionals who are leading >experts in their areas. > >*"Indexing Skills for Technical Communicators," led by LORI LATHROP >Learn a step-by-step approach to developing clear, concise, and useful >indexes for both print and online delivery. >Boston, March 24 >New York, March 26 >Washington, D.C., March 27 >Seattle, April 28 >San Francisco, April 30 >Los Angeles, May 2 >Orlando, June 9 >Chicago, June 11 >Denver, June 13 > >*"Essentials of Editing: How to Edit Print and Online Documents," led >by JUDITH TARUTZ >Shows you what to look for when you edit a technical information >product. Intended for editors and for writers who perform peer edits. >New York, June 16 > >*"Editing for Impact," led by JUDITH TARUTZ >Explains how to make your edits count. Intended for editors and >writers who perform peer edits, this seminar shows you how to improve >usability and quality in ways that matter to your company, even with >limited resources. >New York, June 17 > >For more information, call SOLUTIONS at 1-800-448-4230 or (617) >942-1610, send e-mail to the above address, or check www.sol-sems.com. >To register, call us or use the online form on our web site. > >Finally, to help you save money on professional training, SOLUTIONS >and WinWriters - the leading providers of up-to-the minute information >for Help developers - have formed the Help Training Partner Program. >This reciprocal agreement allows attendees of any SOLUTIONS seminar >to receive a $50 certificate good toward a WinWriters conference; and >attendees of any WinWriters event receive a certificate worth $50 off >a SOLUTIONS seminar. Help Training Partner Program discounts can be >combined with other discounts, so your savings can be considerable. >For more details, please contact SOLUTIONS (800-448-4230) or >WinWriters (800-838-8999, www.winwriters.com). > >Niels Aaboe >SOLUTIONS, Inc. >800-448-4230 >617-942-1610 >617-942-1616 fax >naaboe@world.std.com >http://www.sol-sems.com/ > > Rebecca Bowen Serials and Acquisitions Green Library Stanford University Stanford, CA rbowen@leland.stanford.edu Ph. (415 725-1158) Fax (415) 723-4775 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 14:33:28 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Gordana Latinovic-Rauski Subject: Re: News from SOLUTIONS, Inc. Hi there: My address is Gordana Latinovic-Rauski Dept. of Agricultural Economics Rm. 303, 2053 Main Mall (Angus Bldg.) University of British Columbia Vancouver, BC V6T 1Z2 phone (604)822-5469 fax (604)822-2184 At 05:10 PM 2/21/97 +0000, wrote: >Dear Indexing List Subscribers: > >SOLUTIONS, Inc., the largest provider of training for technical, >marketing, and business communication, would like to send each of >you a copy of its award-winning WRITER'S REFERENCE CARD. Newly >updated, the card is a handy guide to punctuation, usage, and more. >Just reply to this e-mail with your name, address, and phone and fax >numbers, and we'll send you a copy of the card. > >We thought you'd also like to know about SOLUTIONS' upcoming seminars >aimed at technical writers, editors and indexers. Whether you're new >to your field or have many years of experience, we have seminars that >will teach you new techniques and sharpen your skills. All seminars >are developed and taught by practicing professionals who are leading >experts in their areas. > >*"Indexing Skills for Technical Communicators," led by LORI LATHROP >Learn a step-by-step approach to developing clear, concise, and useful >indexes for both print and online delivery. >Boston, March 24 >New York, March 26 >Washington, D.C., March 27 >Seattle, April 28 >San Francisco, April 30 >Los Angeles, May 2 >Orlando, June 9 >Chicago, June 11 >Denver, June 13 > >*"Essentials of Editing: How to Edit Print and Online Documents," led >by JUDITH TARUTZ >Shows you what to look for when you edit a technical information >product. Intended for editors and for writers who perform peer edits. >New York, June 16 > >*"Editing for Impact," led by JUDITH TARUTZ >Explains how to make your edits count. Intended for editors and >writers who perform peer edits, this seminar shows you how to improve >usability and quality in ways that matter to your company, even with >limited resources. >New York, June 17 > >For more information, call SOLUTIONS at 1-800-448-4230 or (617) >942-1610, send e-mail to the above address, or check www.sol-sems.com. >To register, call us or use the online form on our web site. > >Finally, to help you save money on professional training, SOLUTIONS >and WinWriters - the leading providers of up-to-the minute information >for Help developers - have formed the Help Training Partner Program. >This reciprocal agreement allows attendees of any SOLUTIONS seminar >to receive a $50 certificate good toward a WinWriters conference; and >attendees of any WinWriters event receive a certificate worth $50 off >a SOLUTIONS seminar. Help Training Partner Program discounts can be >combined with other discounts, so your savings can be considerable. >For more details, please contact SOLUTIONS (800-448-4230) or >WinWriters (800-838-8999, www.winwriters.com). > >Niels Aaboe >SOLUTIONS, Inc. >800-448-4230 >617-942-1610 >617-942-1616 fax >naaboe@world.std.com >http://www.sol-sems.com/ > Gordana Latinovic-Rauski Librarian Agricultural Economics Reading Room UBC agecread@econ.agsci.ubc.ca ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 18:00:16 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@AOL.COM Subject: reading "nonindexable" pages I don't know if this will end up just being a gripe or if anyone has a constructive solution. Do any of you find yourselves having to read pages that the publisher has said were nonindexable (i.e., they won't pay for them) to understand portions of the indexable text? This isn't always an issue when I'm indexing programming texts, as I can often breeze by the pages of solid programming code without reading them. However, occasionally (and this is one of those occasions) I have to read the code to either understand something more fully or to ensure that something is the same or a different topic that I indexed earlier by comparing relevant sections of code (authorial terminology not always being consistent). Also, reading the code sometimes definitively answers those "what are we doing here" questions that are not always totally clear from reading the narrative that supposedly explains the code. ;-D When I find myself reading and analyzing pages that I can't charge for, I start becoming a bit annoyed even though I'm not creating index entries for those specific pages (though they're included in page ranges covering them). I consider a page billable if I have to mentally analyze its contents, regardless of whether it actually generates entries specific to that page. I'm not complaining about authors further elucidating a point within a block of code or the code itself making something clearer that was discussed in the narrative. After all, if it did nothing to further the discussion, it wouldn't be included except in one huge listing at the end of the chapter or section. I did get the publisher to allow me to charge for index entries pointing to sections of code where lengthy "comment" statements provide further information that readers should be specifically pointed to. (Of course, to find those statements, I have to at least scan the code and decide whether comments within it are worth indexing. ;-D) This isn't an issue with all clients, as none of my other clients (who produce programming texts) exclude code pages from the indexable page count. (I decide on a case by case basis whether to do so.) Believe me, I don't mind *not* charging for lengthy code listings that merely pull together all of the sections of code discussed earlier on--only those pages where the entire page or two is devoted to code for one subroutine or a huge loop or other construct that I may have to read for some reason. Nor is it an issue of overindexing because I'm not indexing everything that appears in the code. Any comments would be appreciated. (I think this is a larger issue than just programming code, BTW, and may appear in other indexing specialties.) Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 18:16:01 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Helen Schinske Subject: problems with ordering LostinWI@AOL.COM wrote: >>I, too, tried to order a demo from Macrex and was unsuccessful. It was THE reason I decided not to pursue the purchase of this program. As I've been catching up on my email, I've been surprised at the strong similarities between my experience and those of others on the list. My story involves hearing about checks lost in the mail, the CA postoffice in various stages of disarray, personal difficulties, and being "out of town". This happened from roughly April-October of '96, so it could be all of us were trying to purchase demos at this time, or ............<< This did it for me -- the check's in the mail to Cindex today. I should say that I made this decision with great regret; I have been reading the Macrex board on AOL for months, and have greatly admired Gale's troubleshooting ability and clear prose. (I don't mean to imply that there is anything wrong with the Cindex board! I was looking harder at Macrex because of the price break offered to USDA students.) I also place great weight on the good opinions of those like Do Mi who have worked with Gale for years. But it seems clear that *something* is going wrong in the ordering process for way too many people. (By the way, my order was phoned in and Gale told me it would go out "tomorrow." My Visa has not been charged, so I assume the order simply got lost.) Helen Schinske HSchinske@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 00:32:16 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Martin =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lind=E9n?= Subject: Re: News from SOLUTIONS, Inc. Martin Lind=E9n Royal Institute of Technology Library 100 44 STOCKHOLM Sweden +46 8 790 6673 fax +46 8 10 91 99 martin@lib.kth.se At 17:10 1997-02-21 +0000, you wrote: >Dear Indexing List Subscribers: > >SOLUTIONS, Inc., the largest provider of training for technical, >marketing, and business communication, would like to send each of >you a copy of its award-winning WRITER'S REFERENCE CARD. Newly >updated, the card is a handy guide to punctuation, usage, and more. >Just reply to this e-mail with your name, address, and phone and fax