From LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu Thu Dec 24 18:12:04 1998 Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 13:46:47 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB To: Ilana Kingsley Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9812B" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 03:44:52 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Thomas P. Copley" Subject: ANNOUNCE> Winter Web Workshops Now Open Workshops on the World Wide Web (WWW) for the beginner and slightly more advanced user will be conducted this winter by Arlington Courseware. All four are distance-learning workshops that are conducted entirely by email and the Web. NEW>> GROWING MINDSHARE WORKSHOP: OUTREACH FOR YOUR WEBSITE ^^^ This workshop focuses on enhancing mindshare, that ephemeral quality that causes users to put your site at the top of their short list relating to a particular topic or subject. The workshop covers positioning on search engines and indices, the latest in meta information, including RDF and Dublin Core, as well as publicity and promotion techniques. The cost is $35. For further information, see the Growing Mindshare home page: http://www.bearfountain.com/arlington/grow.html DYNAMIC DUO WORKSHOP: XML & DYNAMIC HTML This workshop introduces the beginner to XML (Extensible Markup Language) and some of its major supporting standards such as XSL (Extensible Stylesheet Language) and the DOM (Document Object Model). Covers elementary applications of dynamic HTML (DHTML). The cost is $30. For more information, see the Dynamic Duo homepage (Note: starts in December): http://www.bearfountain.com/arlington/duo.html TUNE IN THE NET: GLOBAL REACH FOR THE 21ST CENTURY This workshop concentrates on Internet interactivity and assisting the more experienced user in making his or her Web pages into a stand-out interactive site. It is a sequel to Make the Link: The cost is $40. For additional information, see the Tune In the Net homepage: http://www.bearfountain.com/arlington/tune.html MAKE THE LINK WORKSHOP: WORLD WIDE WEB FOR EVERYONE This elementary workshop focuses on how to gain maximum advantage from the Web. It covers Web navigation, searching, and beginning HTML authoring. The cost is $20. For further information, see the Make the Link http://www.bearfountain.com/arlington/links.html Package prices are available: $99 for first three workshops listed $109 for all four workshops HOW TO SIGN UP Sign up for ONE session of each workshop only unless you plan to take it more than once. To sign up, please send an email message to the address: majordomo@arlington.com and in the body of the message: include the words: to subscribe to: Dates: ------------------ ---------------- ------ subscribe grow-dec Dec session of Mindshare Dec 14-Jan 22 subscribe grow-jan Jan session of Mindshare Jan 4-Feb 12 subscribe duo-jan Jan session of Dynamic Duo Jan 4-Feb 12 subscribe tune-jan Jan session of Tune In the Net Jan 4-Feb 28 subscribe tune-jan Jan session of Make the Link Jan 4-Feb 28 This will automatically put you on the mailing list for more information about each workshop, and you will receive an acknowledgment with the particulars about signing up, and unsubscribing, should you decide not to participate. If you have any difficulty with this procedure or fail to receive a response, please send email to the address in the signature line. * A plain ASCII text version is also available. ________________________________________________________________ THOMAS P. COPLEY tcopley@arlington.com Growing Mindshare Workshop www.bearfountain.com/arlington/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 07:11:56 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Iris B. Ailin-Pyzik" Subject: "Sample" Indexes OK, so supposedly there are no stupid questions, but I'll accept that this may be one.... Postings keep referring to doing indexes on published material as samples to be shown to prospective employers. Do you send them the whole book with it? How can they use this to determine whether you are doing a job that would suit them? If it were just a chapter of a book, then a photocopy of the text might be adequate, but what do you actually send out when doing this? Thanks. Iris ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 08:36:35 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Robert A. Saigh" Subject: Re: "Sample" Indexes Iris, If a prospective client requests a sample, I try to send it as an attached RTF (Rich Text Format) file. If the client requests hard copy (which has happened only once), I do that, too. I would never send a book for a whole host of reasons. Hope this helps. Rob fugleman@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 10:09:27 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Anne Day Subject: Re: "Sample" Indexes Robert, I think Iris was wondering (as am I) what value a sample index has to a prospective client if you don't also send the manuscript you indexed. You say you never send the book, so how does your prospective client evaluate your RTF-formatted index to determine if you'd be worthwhile to hire? Anne > ---------- > From: Robert A. Saigh > Reply To: Indexer's Discussion Group > Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 1998 9:36 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: "Sample" Indexes > > Iris, > > If a prospective client requests a sample, I try to send it as an > attached RTF (Rich Text Format) file. If the client requests hard copy > (which has happened only once), I do that, too. I would never send a > book for a whole host of reasons. Hope this helps. > > Rob > fugleman@mindspring.com > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 09:53:26 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sue Breckenridge Subject: Re: "Sample" Indexes In-Reply-To: <199812081509.JAA26433@unlinfo3.unl.edu> As someone who works with freelance indexers, I can say that I would look at Robert's sample index to see if it looks like a professional index: is it in alphabetical order? is the punctuation right? are there misspellings? is there a good mix of subheadings? are there too many subheadings? I understand that some aspects -- such as number elision, method of alphabetization, run-in or line-by-line style, and use of initial caps -- are often a matter of press style, so I just look at such things for consistency. I assume that I'm getting an example of someone's best work, so if there are a lot of errors, I'm likely to pass. I wouldn't expect a manuscript to accompany the sample index because, quite frankly, I wouldn't have the time to index behind someone. We have the luxury of only hiring experienced indexers, so if we like the sample, we call the prospect's references to see if they liked the person's work. Hope this helps. Sue At 10:09 AM 12/8/98 -0500, you wrote: >Robert, > >I think Iris was wondering (as am I) what value a sample index has to a >prospective client if you don't also send the manuscript you indexed. You >say you never send the book, so how does your prospective client evaluate >your RTF-formatted index to determine if you'd be worthwhile to hire? > >Anne > >> ---------- >> From: Robert A. Saigh >> Reply To: Indexer's Discussion Group >> Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 1998 9:36 AM >> To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L >> Subject: Re: "Sample" Indexes >> >> Iris, >> >> If a prospective client requests a sample, I try to send it as an >> attached RTF (Rich Text Format) file. If the client requests hard copy >> (which has happened only once), I do that, too. I would never send a >> book for a whole host of reasons. Hope this helps. >> >> Rob >> fugleman@mindspring.com >> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sue Breckenridge Assistant Project Editor University of Nebraska Press sbrecken@unlinfo.unl.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 11:26:15 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: "Sample" Indexes As an experienced indexer, I can tell you that a sample without an accompanying manuscript can shed a lot of light on the experience and ability of an indexer. There are certain things you can look for that show clearly how carefully an index is crafted -- such as whether there are strings of undifferentiated locators (long string of pp. numbers without subheadings), whether page numbers are the same in an entry and a flipped version of the entry, or a subhead for the same material. Again, are cross references appropriate -- enough? circular? properly done? Is there enough double posting? Is there too much detail -- is it overly long? Conversely, is the material obviously indexed too lightly, which you would see by large page ranges (ie, the chunks are too large). It would be unreasonable to expect a busy editor to work a piece of your book and compare it to your index. These people don't have time for that. With business as it is, most firms are downsizing and putting additional workloads on existing/remaining employees. I think all they can do is look at the sample quickly and see some of the above things. Keep your book at home, Iris, and submit it, or part of it, if it is asked for. Somebody hiring an indexer can tell a lot from your sample. Believe me! Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 11:49:34 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Paul Corrington Subject: Re: "Sample" Indexes Iris - If a publisher wants a "sample" index from you, this is positive for two reasons: (1) the company is looking to increase the number of indexers it uses, (2) this is your opportunity to show what you can do for the publisher. Insightful entries show your expertise, how you word your entries, thoughtful use of see and see also all creates an impression with a decision maker. The purpose of publicity is to present you, your skills, and your abilities to a decision maker. The impression you make will help influence their decision to select you for their next job. Create the best sample you can and go for it. Paul Corrington Corrington Indexing Service ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 11:01:42 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Robert A. Saigh" Subject: Re: "Sample" Indexes Anne, Of the few clients who have asked for samples (most have not), the index tells them how detailed or customized the index can be. I usually send one technical, one educational, and one financial index for their perusal. That usually seems to satisfy the client. Rob fugleman@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 11:04:06 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Robert A. Saigh" Subject: Re: "Sample" Indexes Sue: You are exactly on target. As an editor, you already have enough to do without having to see how I created my index by having the manuscript to compare. All my clients get preferential treatment. So, if they want customization, they get it. In essence, no matter what the samples look like, they will still get what they want. Rob fugleman@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 09:09:11 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: "Terms and conditions" for indexes ASI has a sample indexing contract on disk (DOS) that's available for $10. The contract can be modified to fit your own situation, and I've used it several times (with modification) in dealing with new clients -- particularly when the author is the client. The most valuable part of it, however, is an indexing checklist that is extremely helpful for defining the scope of the project. For further information (or to order a copy), contact ASI Headquarters at info@ASIndexing.org or 602-979-5514 Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, WA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 14:00:52 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: David Leonard Subject: Sample index agreement Re Carolyn's post about the sample indexing contract on disk, I called the company that handles ASI publications (as instructed by ASI's recorded message) and was told they are completely out of both the paper and the disk versions, and that ASI is only planning to the paper version in the future. Is this true? And does anyone know if the indexing agreement on page 26 of "Starting an Indexing Business" is the current version? Thanks David Leonard ASI number (602)979-5514 and the publications dept. recorded message said to phone ASI has a sample indexing contract on disk (DOS) that's available for $10. The contract can be modified to fit your own situation, and I've used it several times (with modification) in dealing with new clients -- particularly when the author is the client. The most valuable part of it, however, is an indexing checklist that is extremely helpful for defining the scope of the project. For further information (or to order a copy), contact ASI Headquarters at info@ASIndexing.org or 602-979-5514 Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, WA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 18:55:54 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kim Harris Subject: Re: "Terms and conditions" for indexes Caroline you said: 'ASI has a sample indexing contract on disk (DOS) that's available for $10...' This is very helpful indeed and I shall go about acquiring a copy. Many thanks. Best wishes Kim ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 17:33:06 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J. Naomi Linzer" Subject: Re: terms and conditions In-Reply-To: <199812071827.KAA05231@neti.saber.net> Kim wrote: >A lawyer-friend of mine has suggested that I ought to have some terms and >conditions drawn up for new clients. There is a sample independent contractor's terms of agreement for clients in the Nolo Press book WAGE SLAVE NO MORE, a book recommended (and indexed) by Nancy Mulvany. I have filed this for when I must draw up one for my new business, soon. Naomi ******************************************************************************** Ms. J. Naomi Linzer Indexing Services POB 1341 Redway, CA 95560 (707) 923-4361 jnlinzer@saber.net ******************************************************************************** ******* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:50:05 -0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Headley Subject: Proposal for UK credit union (long) From Christine Headley I wonder whether anyone else in the UK would be interested in forming a credit union. It's a regulated savings scheme, either for localities or for people with a 'common bond', in our case publishing freelances. Loans are made out of members' savings, so interest is low. It could help with ... a new computer ... a holiday ... Christmas (!) ... There follows an information sheet I have just received from the Association of British Credit Unions in Manchester. At the very end it says that over a third of Americans are in a credit union - surely the Collective Wisdom has experience to share? Responses off-list, please. I am cross-posting this to Copyediting-L, EDline and Grapevine, so multireaders' indulgence please! Best Christine H. *** Credit Unions ........ What's different about them? Everyone seems to be after your money these days. Newspapers are full of adverts offering savings schemes or loans, so what makes a credit union different? - An easy way to save - A cheap way to borrow - Insurance on savings and loans at no extra cost - Run by volunteers - low overheads - Profits returned to members - Money stays in the community - Owned and run by the members, for the members - Regulated and insured so you know you money is safe - Part of a world wide - Savings schemes for young people too Who can join a credit union? Anybody over the age of 16 who is within the common bond. What is a common bond? A common bond is something that all the members of a credit union have in common. It may be that they live or sometimes work in the same community, work for the same employer or belong to the same association. So how does it work? Members savings are pooled together to be used as a common fund from which members can apply for loans. Savings As a credit union member, you can save as often as you like, and up to certain legal limits, as much as you like. Even if you are only saving a small amount each week, you will be surprised at how quickly it mounts up. Loans Once you have saved for a while - usually about 3 months- you can apply for a loan. By law, the maximum Annual Percentage Rate (APR) that can be charged is 12.68%. The amount you can borrow will depend on your savings and the amount in the common fund. Individual credit unions set their own loan policies. You carry on saving as you repay your loan, so you end up with more money than you started with. Savings for under 16s too Anybody under the age of 16 who is part of the common bond can save with the credit union and receive interest on their money. Dividend Once a credit union has become established, the money it makes from interest on loans can be returned to its members in the form of a dividend. This will vary from credit union to credit union, but often beats high street rates. Community The people in your credit union are your neighbours or colleagues. When you pay interest on your loan it does not disappear in to someone eise's pocket but stays in your community. People are also less likely to default on loans if they know the people they are borrowing from. The social side of credit union life can be great, too! Safety Credit unions are run by volunteers, but they still have to satisfy the Registry of Friendly Societies (a government body) that they are capable of looking after members' money. By law, insurance against fraud has to be in place. Annual independent audits also have to take place. Democracy Everyone has one vote in a credit union, regardless of how much they have saved. A credit union is run by a Board of Directors, elected once a year by the membership. Any member over the age of 18 can stand for the board, it's a great way of learning new skills and making new friends. Training is always available. International Credit unions were started in Germany, nearly 150 years ago. They are now established in over 90 countries across the globe. Nearly half the population of Ireland belongs to their local credit union and so do over a third of Americans. Christine Headley Stroud, Glos ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 21:08:45 +1100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Subject: Micheal Wolff - Author of the book with an online index Some of you may remember discussion about Burn Rate, the book recently published with no index in the book, but an online index (which used to be at http://www.simonsays.com/burnrate, but seems to have disappeared). Here is the author of Burn Rate in another context, taken from the Ghost Sites mailing list at http://www.disobey.com/ghostsites. Jonathan *---- YOUR PERSONAL NET (REDUX) ----* ----- http://ypn.netresponse.com/DOCS/YPNWlcmt.htm Micheal Wolff's disastrous Your Personal Net mega-site fiasco just won't die. Ghost Sites reviewed this stillborn monster shortly after it died 11 months ago, but its restless spirit has arisen at a new location, an event warranting its reclassification as a Site Zombie "zombie" (an extremely dangerous, often subspecies of Ghost Site). At http://ypn.netresponse.com/DOCS/YPNWlcmt.htm, acres of glossy, personalized wreckage from January 1998 are available for perusal. Our favorite area of this grim apparition is YPN's NetClock, surely the world's most out-of-date Net event calendar, followed by its "Do You Want to Shoot Your Boss?" feature story (we know several former YPN employees who wanted to do exactly that after Wolff forced them through one of the Net's most traumatic site closures). Wolff is, of course, a wealthy man now, thanks to his royalties from Burn Rate - a self-serving account of his attempts to take YPN public. But as Scrooge learned, any gains made in this life are answerable to a higher power - and the mysterious reappearance of YPN suggests this restless Zombie may be dragging chains in the Wolff household this Yuletide. Related URLs: http://ypn.netresponse.com/DOCS/netclock2/index.html http://ypn.netresponse.com/DOCS/cvr19970/ http://www.burnrate.com/ [5 GHOSTIES] Site is Stuffed, Embalmed, and Ready for Internet Museum ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 08:56:08 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joanne Clendenen Subject: Re: terms and conditions In-Reply-To: <199812090135.TAA19073@phobos.flash.net> I obtained the ASI recommended agreement, and used some of its terms in my contract letters, but I didn't use the whole thing because my clients seemed to find it intimidating, particularly the authors. My contract letter began as a statement of my understanding of the project plus the cost to the customer. I then added an explanation of rate changes for schedule slippages. I am also adding a SASE and an extra copy for the client to sign and return to me. I think that for most back-of-the-book indexes, this should suffice. Some clients give me a contract of their own design for me to sign. If anyone would like an electronic copy of my letter, I would be happy to pass it on. I don't consider such things proprietary and am happy to share. Please email me privately at jbclend@bigfoot.com if you would like one. Joanne AfterWords Indexing Services Joanne E. Clendenen email: jbclend@bigfoot.com http://www.flash.net/~jbclend ---------------- "When your work speaks for itself, don't interrupt." Henry J. Kaiser -----Original Message----- From: Indexer's Discussion Group [mailto:INDEX-L@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu] On Behalf Of J. Naomi Linzer Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 1998 7:33 PM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: Re: terms and conditions Kim wrote: >A lawyer-friend of mine has suggested that I ought to have some terms and >conditions drawn up for new clients. There is a sample independent contractor's terms of agreement for clients in the Nolo Press book WAGE SLAVE NO MORE, a book recommended (and indexed) by Nancy Mulvany. I have filed this for when I must draw up one for my new business, soon. Naomi **************************************************************************** **** Ms. J. Naomi Linzer Indexing Services POB 1341 Redway, CA 95560 (707) 923-4361 jnlinzer@saber.net **************************************************************************** **** ******* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:41:12 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Re: INDEX-L Digest - 7 Dec 1998 to 8 Dec 1998 After seeing David's post (below) I checked with Bonnie at ASI headquarters and discovered that he's quite right. The disk is no longer available from ASI headquarters. The sample contract is available only in printed form in the ASI publication, "Starting an Indexing Business". My apologies for the incorrect information in my original post. Carolyn PS -- But I still stand by my original comment re the sample contract's usefulness! -----Original Message----- From: Automatic digest processor To: Recipients of INDEX-L digests Date: Tuesday, December 08, 1998 9:07 PM Subject: INDEX-L Digest - 7 Dec 1998 to 8 Dec 1998 > >Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 14:00:52 -0500 >From: David Leonard >Subject: Sample index agreement > >Re Carolyn's post about the sample indexing contract on disk, I called the >company that handles ASI publications (as instructed by ASI's recorded >message) and was told they are completely out of both the paper and the >disk versions, and that ASI is only planning to the paper version in the >future. Is this true? > >And does anyone know if the indexing agreement on page 26 of "Starting an >Indexing Business" is the current version? > >Thanks > >David Leonard >************************************************ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 13:50:40 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Subject: reminder Remember: Effective tomorrow, December 10, if you have problems with index-l, please contact Mary Harper (mharper@binghamton.edu). Mary will be at the helm until my return on January 1. Melinda Davis has agreed to respond to misdirected inquiries to the list. Happy holidays all! Charlotte Skuster index-l moderator ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:32:19 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: BALIPETZ@CNSVAX.ALBANY.EDU Subject: Re: Proposal for UK credit union (long) Christine, I have been a member of one credit union or another since the age of seven or so, and recommend that kind of institution very highly. Perhaps it would help sway your British colleagues to know that credit unions are actually based on a British innovation (even though early implementations may indeed have occurred in Germany as you stated). The innovation was the principle of cooperative organization that can be traced back to the Rochdale community in England around 1840, I believe. It is the principle of a membership type of organization (usually intended to serve its members with goods or services, which includes banking services) in which each member has one and only one vote regardless of the amount invested or the amount of trade done with the organization. I grew up in a community in New York in which all of the important services (housing rental, stores, laundry, credit union, etc.) were provided through separate cooperative organizations. It worked very well, both efficiently and compassionately, and saved the members lots of money and trouble. Members were always informed that the originators of such cooperatives were the hard-working folks in Rochdale. One caveat: While credit unions (and other cooperatives) can work very well and to the advantage of all members, they can also fail miserably sometimes. They are businesses after all, and businesses cannot compete or survive if there is a lack of competent management, or if compensation is set too high, or if services are not kept up to date and useful. Still, it is great to be your own boss so to speak in your banking affairs. Especially since you know that many, many people have already proved that the credit union idea can be made to work very well indeed. It is worth trying! Best of luck! Ben Lipetz ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 14:57:27 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Need resource Hello all, I apologize in advance for using the list for non indexing purposes, but I need some information and hope that someone on the list can help me out. I need the telephone number of any Australian dealer in antique maps. I am looking for antique maps of both Australia and Hawaii. Time is of the essence. I've noticed that we have several Australian indexers on the list and I am desperately hoping that one of them takes pity on me and can help me out. Please contact me privately at scoates@slip.net. Thanks in advance and again, apologies to the list for intruding with personal business. Best, Sylvia Coates ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:54:26 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barry Rofman Organization: @Home Network Subject: Re: terms and conditions Joanne, I would very much appreciate a copy of the contract letter. Thanks. Rebecca Rofman Moonstone Indexing > > If anyone would like an electronic copy of my letter, I would be happy to > pass it on. I don't consider such things proprietary and am happy to share. > Please email me privately at jbclend@bigfoot.com if you would like one. > > Joanne > > AfterWords Indexing Services > Joanne E. Clendenen > email: jbclend@bigfoot.com > http://www.flash.net/~jbclend > ---------------- > "When your work speaks for itself, don't interrupt." > Henry J. Kaiser > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indexer's Discussion Group [mailto:INDEX-L@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu] > On Behalf Of J. Naomi Linzer > Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 1998 7:33 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: terms and conditions > > Kim wrote: > >A lawyer-friend of mine has suggested that I ought to have some terms and > >conditions drawn up for new clients. > > There is a sample independent contractor's terms of agreement for clients > in the Nolo Press book WAGE SLAVE NO MORE, a book recommended (and indexed) > by Nancy Mulvany. I have filed this for when I must draw up one for my new > business, soon. > > Naomi > > **************************************************************************** > **** > Ms. J. Naomi Linzer > Indexing Services > POB 1341 > Redway, CA 95560 > (707) 923-4361 > jnlinzer@saber.net > **************************************************************************** > **** > ******* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:16:39 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jacqueline Janezic Subject: Newspaper Indexing Our local library is set to begin a project on indexing a community newpaper, going back to the 1950's. Does software exist to index nespapers specifically? Also any information or references on this topic would be sincerely appreciated. Thank you Jackie Janezic BookWorm Indexing Services ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:33:14 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Janet Mazefsky Subject: Fwd: Posting - Indexing position This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_913242795_boundary Content-ID: <0_913242795@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII --part0_913242795_boundary Content-ID: <0_913242795@inet_out.mail.valsmtp.riag.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-zc03.mx.aol.com (rly-zc03.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.3]) by air-zc05.mail.aol.com (v53.20) with SMTP; Wed, 09 Dec 1998 10:08:59 1900 Received: from gateway.tpp.com (gateway.TPP.com [198.81.246.2]) by rly-zc03.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with SMTP id KAA15198 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:08:57 -0500 (EST) From: lpapaloizou@valsmtp.riag.com Received: by gateway.tpp.com id KAA17121 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for jmazefsky@aol.com); Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:06:06 -0500 Received: by gateway.tpp.com (Internal Mail Agent-1); Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:06:06 -0500 Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:08:17 -0500 Message-Id: <0004F3A3.CE21321@riag.com> Subject: Posting To: jmazefsky@aol.com, jmazefsky@valsmtp.riag.com Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit JOB TITLE: Indexer COMPANY: RIA Group For More Info Visit Us @ www.riatax.com LOCATION: 90 Fifth Avenue, NY, NY 10011 CONTACT: Louiza Papaloizou, fax #: 212-337-4268 or e-mail: lpapaloizou@riag.com DATE: December 7, 1998 Job Description: Drafts and compiles index lines from editorial manuscript into logically organized indexes. Including the description and location of topics or subject matter in assigned company publications. Duties also include maintaining and revising existing indexes. Qualifications: Thorough working knowledge of indexing with superior reading comprehension and analytical skills. Familiarity with terminology of tax and legal publishing is important. Candidate must be self-motivated and be able to work independently on projects. College degree required. Experience: Some indexing experience on professional publications with previous usage of technical, legal or tax terminology is preferred but we are willing to train. Knowledge of Word, and the development and modification of glossary function is helpful, in addition to an understanding of the operations and applications of data processing programs. Experience in CINDEX, MACREX is a plus. --part0_913242795_boundary-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 15:30:32 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeri Lee Subject: Re: Fwd: Posting - Indexing position Janet, Colleen Dunham suggested I contact you regarding a possible indexing assignment. Colleen has been working with me on learning legal indexing and says to tell you it would be "a combined effort." As such, a project with a deadline that isn't extremely tight would be helpful. My background is 35 years in the medical field, two as an x-ray technician, two as a radiation therapy technician, and three as a nuclear medicine technician; the balance has been as a medical transcriptionist, the last 20 in my own business. All of the above were learned by "seat of the pants," as it were experience. I also took a year of legal assistant training and subsequently freelanced as an electronic and mask court reporter before a variety of state and federal agencies on a part-time basis for ten years. Please let me know if any additional information would be helpful to you. One question: Is this on-site or freelance? Thanks in advance for your consideration. Jeri Lee 17233 - 140th Avenue SE, #104 Renton, Washington 98058 Phone: 425-254-1352 Fax: 425-254-1360 E-mail: indexer@dbic.net Janet Mazefsky wrote: > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > --part0_913242795_boundary > Content-ID: <0_913242795@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> > Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > --part0_913242795_boundary > Content-ID: <0_913242795@inet_out.mail.valsmtp.riag.com.2> > Content-type: message/rfc822 > Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > Content-disposition: inline > > Return-Path: > Received: from rly-zc03.mx.aol.com (rly-zc03.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.3]) by > air-zc05.mail.aol.com (v53.20) with SMTP; Wed, 09 Dec 1998 10:08:59 > 1900 > Received: from gateway.tpp.com (gateway.TPP.com [198.81.246.2]) > by rly-zc03.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) > with SMTP id KAA15198 for ; > Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:08:57 -0500 (EST) > From: lpapaloizou@valsmtp.riag.com > Received: by gateway.tpp.com id KAA17121 > (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for jmazefsky@aol.com); > Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:06:06 -0500 > Received: by gateway.tpp.com (Internal Mail Agent-1); > Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:06:06 -0500 > Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:08:17 -0500 > Message-Id: <0004F3A3.CE21321@riag.com> > Subject: Posting > To: jmazefsky@aol.com, jmazefsky@valsmtp.riag.com > Content-Description: cc:Mail note part > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > JOB TITLE: Indexer > > COMPANY: RIA Group > For More Info Visit Us @ www.riatax.com > > LOCATION: 90 Fifth Avenue, NY, NY 10011 > > CONTACT: Louiza Papaloizou, > fax #: 212-337-4268 or > e-mail: lpapaloizou@riag.com > > DATE: December 7, 1998 > > Job Description: > > Drafts and compiles index lines from editorial manuscript into > logically organized indexes. Including the description and location > of topics or subject matter in assigned company publications. Duties > also include maintaining and revising existing indexes. > > Qualifications: > > Thorough working knowledge of indexing with superior reading > comprehension and analytical skills. Familiarity with terminology of > tax and legal publishing is important. Candidate must be > self-motivated and be able to work independently on projects. College > degree required. > > Experience: > > Some indexing experience on professional publications with previous > usage of technical, legal or tax terminology is preferred but we are > willing to train. Knowledge of Word, and the development and > modification of glossary function is helpful, in addition to an > understanding of the operations and applications of data processing > programs. Experience in CINDEX, MACREX is a plus. > > --part0_913242795_boundary-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 15:40:10 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeri Lee Subject: Re: Fwd: Posting - Indexing position; sorry I forgot to check the To: section - sorry! Jeri Lee Jeri Lee wrote: > Janet, > > Colleen Dunham suggested I contact you regarding a > possible indexing assignment. > > Colleen has been working with me on learning legal > indexing and says to tell you it would be "a combined effort." > As such, a project with a deadline that isn't extremely > tight would be helpful. > > My background is 35 years in the medical field, two as > an x-ray technician, two as a radiation therapy technician, > and three as a nuclear medicine technician; the balance > has been as a medical transcriptionist, the last 20 in my own > business. All of the above were learned by "seat of the pants," > as it were experience. > > I also took a year of legal assistant training and > subsequently freelanced as an electronic and mask > court reporter before a variety of state and federal > agencies on a part-time basis for ten years. > > Please let me know if any additional information would > be helpful to you. > > One question: Is this on-site or freelance? > > Thanks in advance for your consideration. > > Jeri Lee > > 17233 - 140th Avenue SE, #104 > Renton, Washington 98058 > > Phone: 425-254-1352 > Fax: 425-254-1360 > E-mail: indexer@dbic.net > > Janet Mazefsky wrote: > > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > > > --part0_913242795_boundary > > Content-ID: <0_913242795@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> > > Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > > > --part0_913242795_boundary > > Content-ID: <0_913242795@inet_out.mail.valsmtp.riag.com.2> > > Content-type: message/rfc822 > > Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > Content-disposition: inline > > > > Return-Path: > > Received: from rly-zc03.mx.aol.com (rly-zc03.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.3]) by > > air-zc05.mail.aol.com (v53.20) with SMTP; Wed, 09 Dec 1998 10:08:59 > > 1900 > > Received: from gateway.tpp.com (gateway.TPP.com [198.81.246.2]) > > by rly-zc03.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) > > with SMTP id KAA15198 for ; > > Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:08:57 -0500 (EST) > > From: lpapaloizou@valsmtp.riag.com > > Received: by gateway.tpp.com id KAA17121 > > (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for jmazefsky@aol.com); > > Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:06:06 -0500 > > Received: by gateway.tpp.com (Internal Mail Agent-1); > > Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:06:06 -0500 > > Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:08:17 -0500 > > Message-Id: <0004F3A3.CE21321@riag.com> > > Subject: Posting > > To: jmazefsky@aol.com, jmazefsky@valsmtp.riag.com > > Content-Description: cc:Mail note part > > Mime-Version: 1.0 > > Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > > > JOB TITLE: Indexer > > > > COMPANY: RIA Group > > For More Info Visit Us @ www.riatax.com > > > > LOCATION: 90 Fifth Avenue, NY, NY 10011 > > > > CONTACT: Louiza Papaloizou, > > fax #: 212-337-4268 or > > e-mail: lpapaloizou@riag.com > > > > DATE: December 7, 1998 > > > > Job Description: > > > > Drafts and compiles index lines from editorial manuscript into > > logically organized indexes. Including the description and location > > of topics or subject matter in assigned company publications. Duties > > also include maintaining and revising existing indexes. > > > > Qualifications: > > > > Thorough working knowledge of indexing with superior reading > > comprehension and analytical skills. Familiarity with terminology of > > tax and legal publishing is important. Candidate must be > > self-motivated and be able to work independently on projects. College > > degree required. > > > > Experience: > > > > Some indexing experience on professional publications with previous > > usage of technical, legal or tax terminology is preferred but we are > > willing to train. Knowledge of Word, and the development and > > modification of glossary function is helpful, in addition to an > > understanding of the operations and applications of data processing > > programs. Experience in CINDEX, MACREX is a plus. > > > > --part0_913242795_boundary-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 20:17:49 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: need resource Hello everyone, I have already privately thanked everyone who responded to my cry for help. However, I also wanted to thank the list for allowing me to impose upon it. What a wonderful group of people we have on the list! Best, Sylvia Coates ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:08:02 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Back Words Indexing Subject: Here's a new one for ya Hi Indexers - The book with the index due tomorrow (Thursday) has some odd "notes" in the back. The source pages do not have a symbol or number that says "yoo-hoo, there is an endnote in the back." Nor do the endnotes seem to expect it: they are divided by chapter, then by page and no endnote numbers are used. Rather, they pick up the phrase from the source page that the author is illuminating and then make a comment and/or give a reference. Would I index items from this section (entitled "Notes") by only picking up what has been overtly discussed in the book and included in the index? Or (Goddess forbid) pick up everything and turning the already-restricted index into a bibliography? Yes, I'm to index it. No, I don't want to ask the Editor (yet) - I want to hear what you all have to say. Martha BWI PS - thanks! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 22:50:07 +1100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Subject: Pruning quotes... In-Reply-To: <04561155746285@domain1.bigpond.com> In yesterday's digest we had: i) A message converted from a MIME file attachment with 33 lines of unnecessary administrivia added at the top. ii) A message quoting the entire previous message, including the 33 lines of administrivia, in order to add a 23-line response. iii) A message quoting the whole of message ii, including the 33 lines of administrivia, in order to add a 1-line response to the 23-line response to the original message. Total: 122 unnecessary lines sent to 800+ people = about 100,000 lines of wasted bandwidth. I'm not singling anyone out, but this is becoming a bore, especially for those of us who pay for connection time. Could people please prune their quotes back to the bare minimum before sending off replies? And if it's a topic which is already being discussed, can you assume we've read the salient points before? Thanks Jonathan =================================== Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Indexing, PC Training, Web Page Authoring http://www.users.bigpond.com/Diagonal Diagonal@bigpond.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 08:04:31 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: Here's a new one for ya In-Reply-To: <199812100920.EAA08608@mail4.bellsouth.net> Yes, I've seen those kinds of "notes"; they're a pain because you often don't know they're there until you finish the book! I would just treat them like additional ordinary text: Ignore minor stuff and passing refs, pick up only substantial comment or discussion. Mike Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net ICQ #15741870 http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds |-----Original Message----- |From: Indexer's Discussion Group |[mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Back Words |Indexing |Sent: Thursday, December 10, 1998 2:08 AM |To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L |Subject: Here's a new one for ya | | |Hi Indexers - | |The book with the index due tomorrow (Thursday) has some odd "notes" in the |back. The source pages do not have a symbol or number that says "yoo-hoo, |there is an endnote in the back." Nor do the endnotes seem to expect it: |they are divided by chapter, then by page and no endnote numbers are used. |Rather, they pick up the phrase from the source page that the author is |illuminating and then make a comment and/or give a reference. | |Would I index items from this section (entitled "Notes") by only picking up |what has been overtly discussed in the book and included in the index? Or |(Goddess forbid) pick up everything and turning the already-restricted |index into a bibliography? | |Yes, I'm to index it. No, I don't want to ask the Editor (yet) - I want to |hear what you all have to say. | |Martha |BWI |PS - thanks! | ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 08:08:10 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Zeppos & Associates, Incorporated" Subject: Re: INDEX-L Digest - 8 Dec 1998 to 9 Dec 1998 Unsubscribe At 12:00 AM 12/10/98 +0000, you wrote: >There are 13 messages totalling 788 lines in this issue. > >Topics of the day: > > 1. Proposal for UK credit union (long) (2) > 2. Micheal Wolff - Author of the book with an online index > 3. terms and conditions (2) > 4. INDEX-L Digest - 7 Dec 1998 to 8 Dec 1998 > 5. reminder > 6. Need resource > 7. Newspaper Indexing > 8. Fwd: Posting - Indexing position (2) > 9. Fwd: Posting - Indexing position; sorry > 10. need resource > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:50:05 -0000 >From: Christine Headley >Subject: Proposal for UK credit union (long) > >>From Christine Headley > >I wonder whether anyone else in the UK would be interested in forming a >credit union. It's a regulated savings scheme, either for localities or for >people with a 'common bond', in our case publishing freelances. Loans are >made out of members' savings, so interest is low. It could help with ... a >new computer ... a holiday ... Christmas (!) ... > >There follows an information sheet I have just received from the Association >of British Credit Unions in Manchester. At the very end it says that over a >third of Americans are in a credit union - surely the Collective Wisdom has >experience to share? > >Responses off-list, please. > >I am cross-posting this to Copyediting-L, EDline and Grapevine, so >multireaders' indulgence please! > >Best > >Christine H. > > >*** >Credit Unions ........ What's different about them? > >Everyone seems to be after your money these days. Newspapers are full of >adverts offering savings schemes or loans, so what makes a credit union >different? > >- An easy way to save > - A cheap way to borrow > - Insurance on savings and loans at no extra cost > - Run by volunteers - low overheads > - Profits returned to members > - Money stays in the community > - Owned and run by the members, for the members > - Regulated and insured so you know you money is safe > - Part of a world wide > - Savings schemes for young people too > >Who can join a credit union? > >Anybody over the age of 16 who is within the common bond. > >What is a common bond? > >A common bond is something that all the members of a credit union have in >common. It may be that they live or sometimes work in the same community, >work for the same employer or belong to the same association. > >So how does it work? > >Members savings are pooled together to be used as a common fund from which >members can apply for loans. > >Savings > >As a credit union member, you can save as often as you like, and up to >certain legal limits, as much as you like. Even if you are only saving a >small amount each week, you will be surprised at how quickly it mounts up. > >Loans > >Once you have saved for a while - usually about 3 months- you can apply for >a loan. By law, the maximum Annual Percentage Rate (APR) that can be >charged is 12.68%. The amount you can borrow will depend on your savings >and the amount in the common fund. Individual credit unions set their own >loan policies. You carry on saving as you repay your loan, so you end up >with more money than you started with. > >Savings for under 16s too > >Anybody under the age of 16 who is part of the common bond can save with the >credit union and receive interest on their money. > >Dividend > >Once a credit union has become established, the money it makes from interest >on loans can be returned to its members in the form of a dividend. This will >vary from credit union to credit union, but often beats high street rates. > >Community > >The people in your credit union are your neighbours or colleagues. When you >pay interest on your loan it does not disappear in to someone eise's pocket >but stays in your community. People are also less likely to default on >loans if they know the people they are borrowing from. The social side of >credit union life can be great, too! > >Safety > >Credit unions are run by volunteers, but they still have to satisfy the >Registry of Friendly Societies (a government body) that they are capable of >looking after members' money. By law, insurance against fraud has to be in >place. Annual independent audits also have to take place. > >Democracy > >Everyone has one vote in a credit union, regardless of how much they have >saved. A credit union is run by a Board of Directors, elected once a year >by the membership. Any member over the age of 18 can stand for the board, >it's a great way of learning new skills and making new friends. Training is >always available. > >International > >Credit unions were started in Germany, nearly 150 years ago. They are now >established in over 90 countries across the globe. Nearly half the >population of Ireland belongs to their local credit union and so do over a >third of Americans. > >Christine Headley >Stroud, Glos > > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 21:08:45 +1100 >From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne >Subject: Micheal Wolff - Author of the book with an online index > >Some of you may remember discussion about Burn Rate, the book recently >published with no index in the book, but an online index (which used to be >at http://www.simonsays.com/burnrate, but seems to have disappeared). Here >is the author of Burn Rate in another context, taken from the Ghost Sites >mailing list at http://www.disobey.com/ghostsites. > >Jonathan > >*---- YOUR PERSONAL NET (REDUX) ----* >----- http://ypn.netresponse.com/DOCS/YPNWlcmt.htm > >Micheal Wolff's disastrous Your Personal Net mega-site fiasco just won't >die. Ghost Sites reviewed this stillborn monster shortly after it died >11 months ago, but its restless spirit has arisen at a new location, an >event warranting its reclassification as a Site Zombie "zombie" (an >extremely dangerous, often subspecies of Ghost Site). > >At http://ypn.netresponse.com/DOCS/YPNWlcmt.htm, acres of glossy, >personalized wreckage from January 1998 are available for perusal. Our >favorite area of this grim apparition is YPN's NetClock, surely the >world's most out-of-date Net event calendar, followed by its "Do You >Want to Shoot Your Boss?" feature story (we know several former YPN >employees who wanted to do exactly that after Wolff forced them through >one of the Net's most traumatic site closures). > >Wolff is, of course, a wealthy man now, thanks to his royalties from >Burn Rate - a self-serving account of his attempts to take YPN public. >But as Scrooge learned, any gains made in this life are answerable to a >higher power - and the mysterious reappearance of YPN suggests this >restless Zombie may be dragging chains in the Wolff household this >Yuletide. > >Related URLs: > http://ypn.netresponse.com/DOCS/netclock2/index.html > http://ypn.netresponse.com/DOCS/cvr19970/ > http://www.burnrate.com/ > >[5 GHOSTIES] Site is Stuffed, Embalmed, and Ready for Internet Museum > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 08:56:08 -0600 >From: Joanne Clendenen >Subject: Re: terms and conditions > >I obtained the ASI recommended agreement, and used some of its terms in my >contract letters, but I didn't use the whole thing because my clients seemed >to find it intimidating, particularly the authors. > >My contract letter began as a statement of my understanding of the project >plus the cost to the customer. I then added an explanation of rate changes >for schedule slippages. I am also adding a SASE and an extra copy for the >client to sign and return to me. I think that for most back-of-the-book >indexes, this should suffice. > >Some clients give me a contract of their own design for me to sign. > >If anyone would like an electronic copy of my letter, I would be happy to >pass it on. I don't consider such things proprietary and am happy to share. >Please email me privately at jbclend@bigfoot.com if you would like one. > >Joanne > >AfterWords Indexing Services >Joanne E. Clendenen >email: jbclend@bigfoot.com >http://www.flash.net/~jbclend >---------------- >"When your work speaks for itself, don't interrupt." > Henry J. Kaiser > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Indexer's Discussion Group [mailto:INDEX-L@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu] >On Behalf Of J. Naomi Linzer >Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 1998 7:33 PM >To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L >Subject: Re: terms and conditions > >Kim wrote: >>A lawyer-friend of mine has suggested that I ought to have some terms and >>conditions drawn up for new clients. > >There is a sample independent contractor's terms of agreement for clients >in the Nolo Press book WAGE SLAVE NO MORE, a book recommended (and indexed) >by Nancy Mulvany. I have filed this for when I must draw up one for my new >business, soon. > >Naomi > > >**************************************************************************** >**** >Ms. J. Naomi Linzer >Indexing Services >POB 1341 >Redway, CA 95560 >(707) 923-4361 >jnlinzer@saber.net >**************************************************************************** >**** >******* > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:41:12 -0800 >From: Carolyn Weaver >Subject: Re: INDEX-L Digest - 7 Dec 1998 to 8 Dec 1998 > >After seeing David's post (below) I checked with Bonnie at ASI headquarters >and discovered that he's quite right. The disk is no longer available from >ASI headquarters. The sample contract is available only in printed form in >the ASI publication, "Starting an Indexing Business". > >My apologies for the incorrect information in my original post. > >Carolyn > >PS -- But I still stand by my original comment re the sample contract's >usefulness! > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Automatic digest processor >To: Recipients of INDEX-L digests >Date: Tuesday, December 08, 1998 9:07 PM >Subject: INDEX-L Digest - 7 Dec 1998 to 8 Dec 1998 > > >> >>Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 14:00:52 -0500 >>From: David Leonard >>Subject: Sample index agreement >> >>Re Carolyn's post about the sample indexing contract on disk, I called the >>company that handles ASI publications (as instructed by ASI's recorded >>message) and was told they are completely out of both the paper and the >>disk versions, and that ASI is only planning to the paper version in the >>future. Is this true? >> >>And does anyone know if the indexing agreement on page 26 of "Starting an >>Indexing Business" is the current version? >> >>Thanks >> >>David Leonard >>************************************************ > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 13:50:40 -0500 >From: Charlotte Skuster >Subject: reminder > >Remember: > > >Effective tomorrow, December 10, if you have problems with index-l, please >contact Mary Harper (mharper@binghamton.edu). Mary will be at the helm >until my return on January 1. > >Melinda Davis has agreed to respond to misdirected inquiries to the list. > >Happy holidays all! > >Charlotte Skuster >index-l moderator > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:32:19 -0500 >From: BALIPETZ@CNSVAX.ALBANY.EDU >Subject: Re: Proposal for UK credit union (long) > >Christine, > I have been a member of one credit union or another since >the age of seven or so, and recommend that kind of institution very >highly. Perhaps it would help sway your British colleagues to know >that credit unions are actually based on a British innovation >(even though early implementations may indeed have occurred in >Germany as you stated). > >The innovation was the principle of cooperative organization that >can be traced back to the Rochdale community in England around >1840, I believe. It is the principle of a membership type of >organization (usually intended to serve its members with goods >or services, which includes banking services) in which each >member has one and only one vote regardless of the amount >invested or the amount of trade done with the organization. > >I grew up in a community in New York in which all of the important >services (housing rental, stores, laundry, credit union, etc.) >were provided through separate cooperative organizations. It >worked very well, both efficiently and compassionately, and >saved the members lots of money and trouble. Members were >always informed that the originators of such cooperatives were >the hard-working folks in Rochdale. > >One caveat: While credit unions (and other cooperatives) can >work very well and to the advantage of all members, they can >also fail miserably sometimes. They are businesses after all, >and businesses cannot compete or survive if there is a lack >of competent management, or if compensation is set too high, >or if services are not kept up to date and useful. > >Still, it is great to be your own boss so to speak in your >banking affairs. Especially since you know that many, many >people have already proved that the credit union idea can be >made to work very well indeed. It is worth trying! >Best of luck! > >Ben Lipetz > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 14:57:27 +0000 >From: Sylvia Coates >Subject: Need resource > >Hello all, > >I apologize in advance for using the list for non indexing purposes, but >I need some information and hope that someone on the list can help me >out. I need the telephone number of any Australian dealer in antique >maps. I am looking for antique maps of both Australia and Hawaii. Time >is of the essence. > >I've noticed that we have several Australian indexers on the list and I >am desperately hoping that one of them takes pity on me and can help me >out. Please contact me privately at scoates@slip.net. > >Thanks in advance and again, apologies to the list for intruding with >personal business. > >Best, >Sylvia Coates > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:54:26 -0500 >From: Barry Rofman >Subject: Re: terms and conditions > >Joanne, > >I would very much appreciate a copy of the contract letter. > >Thanks. > >Rebecca Rofman >Moonstone Indexing > >> >> If anyone would like an electronic copy of my letter, I would be happy to >> pass it on. I don't consider such things proprietary and am happy to share. >> Please email me privately at jbclend@bigfoot.com if you would like one. >> >> Joanne >> >> AfterWords Indexing Services >> Joanne E. Clendenen >> email: jbclend@bigfoot.com >> http://www.flash.net/~jbclend >> ---------------- >> "When your work speaks for itself, don't interrupt." >> Henry J. Kaiser >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Indexer's Discussion Group [mailto:INDEX-L@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu] >> On Behalf Of J. Naomi Linzer >> Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 1998 7:33 PM >> To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L >> Subject: Re: terms and conditions >> >> Kim wrote: >> >A lawyer-friend of mine has suggested that I ought to have some terms and >> >conditions drawn up for new clients. >> >> There is a sample independent contractor's terms of agreement for clients >> in the Nolo Press book WAGE SLAVE NO MORE, a book recommended (and indexed) >> by Nancy Mulvany. I have filed this for when I must draw up one for my new >> business, soon. >> >> Naomi >> >> **************************************************************************** >> **** >> Ms. J. Naomi Linzer >> Indexing Services >> POB 1341 >> Redway, CA 95560 >> (707) 923-4361 >> jnlinzer@saber.net >> **************************************************************************** >> **** >> ******* > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:16:39 -0400 >From: Jacqueline Janezic >Subject: Newspaper Indexing > >Our local library is set to begin a project on indexing a community >newpaper, going back to the 1950's. Does software exist to index nespapers >specifically? Also any information or references on this topic would be >sincerely appreciated. > >Thank you > >Jackie Janezic >BookWorm Indexing Services > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:33:14 EST >From: Janet Mazefsky >Subject: Fwd: Posting - Indexing position > >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > >--part0_913242795_boundary >Content-ID: <0_913242795@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> >Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > >--part0_913242795_boundary >Content-ID: <0_913242795@inet_out.mail.valsmtp.riag.com.2> >Content-type: message/rfc822 >Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >Content-disposition: inline > >Return-Path: >Received: from rly-zc03.mx.aol.com (rly-zc03.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.3]) by > air-zc05.mail.aol.com (v53.20) with SMTP; Wed, 09 Dec 1998 10:08:59 > 1900 >Received: from gateway.tpp.com (gateway.TPP.com [198.81.246.2]) > by rly-zc03.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) > with SMTP id KAA15198 for ; > Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:08:57 -0500 (EST) >From: lpapaloizou@valsmtp.riag.com >Received: by gateway.tpp.com id KAA17121 > (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for jmazefsky@aol.com); > Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:06:06 -0500 >Received: by gateway.tpp.com (Internal Mail Agent-1); > Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:06:06 -0500 >Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:08:17 -0500 >Message-Id: <0004F3A3.CE21321@riag.com> >Subject: Posting >To: jmazefsky@aol.com, jmazefsky@valsmtp.riag.com >Content-Description: cc:Mail note part >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > JOB TITLE: Indexer > > COMPANY: RIA Group > For More Info Visit Us @ www.riatax.com > > LOCATION: 90 Fifth Avenue, NY, NY 10011 > > CONTACT: Louiza Papaloizou, > fax #: 212-337-4268 or > e-mail: lpapaloizou@riag.com > > DATE: December 7, 1998 > > Job Description: > > Drafts and compiles index lines from editorial manuscript into > logically organized indexes. Including the description and location > of topics or subject matter in assigned company publications. Duties > also include maintaining and revising existing indexes. > > Qualifications: > > Thorough working knowledge of indexing with superior reading > comprehension and analytical skills. Familiarity with terminology of > tax and legal publishing is important. Candidate must be > self-motivated and be able to work independently on projects. College > degree required. > > Experience: > > Some indexing experience on professional publications with previous > usage of technical, legal or tax terminology is preferred but we are > willing to train. Knowledge of Word, and the development and > modification of glossary function is helpful, in addition to an > understanding of the operations and applications of data processing > programs. Experience in CINDEX, MACREX is a plus. > > >--part0_913242795_boundary-- > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 15:30:32 -0800 >From: Jeri Lee >Subject: Re: Fwd: Posting - Indexing position > >Janet, > >Colleen Dunham suggested I contact you regarding a >possible indexing assignment. > >Colleen has been working with me on learning legal >indexing and says to tell you it would be "a combined effort." >As such, a project with a deadline that isn't extremely >tight would be helpful. > >My background is 35 years in the medical field, two as >an x-ray technician, two as a radiation therapy technician, >and three as a nuclear medicine technician; the balance >has been as a medical transcriptionist, the last 20 in my own >business. All of the above were learned by "seat of the pants," >as it were experience. > >I also took a year of legal assistant training and >subsequently freelanced as an electronic and mask >court reporter before a variety of state and federal >agencies on a part-time basis for ten years. > >Please let me know if any additional information would >be helpful to you. > >One question: Is this on-site or freelance? > >Thanks in advance for your consideration. > >Jeri Lee > >17233 - 140th Avenue SE, #104 >Renton, Washington 98058 > >Phone: 425-254-1352 >Fax: 425-254-1360 >E-mail: indexer@dbic.net > > > >Janet Mazefsky wrote: > >> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. >> >> --part0_913242795_boundary >> Content-ID: <0_913242795@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> >> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >> >> --part0_913242795_boundary >> Content-ID: <0_913242795@inet_out.mail.valsmtp.riag.com.2> >> Content-type: message/rfc822 >> Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >> Content-disposition: inline >> >> Return-Path: >> Received: from rly-zc03.mx.aol.com (rly-zc03.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.3]) by >> air-zc05.mail.aol.com (v53.20) with SMTP; Wed, 09 Dec 1998 10:08:59 >> 1900 >> Received: from gateway.tpp.com (gateway.TPP.com [198.81.246.2]) >> by rly-zc03.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) >> with SMTP id KAA15198 for ; >> Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:08:57 -0500 (EST) >> From: lpapaloizou@valsmtp.riag.com >> Received: by gateway.tpp.com id KAA17121 >> (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for jmazefsky@aol.com); >> Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:06:06 -0500 >> Received: by gateway.tpp.com (Internal Mail Agent-1); >> Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:06:06 -0500 >> Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:08:17 -0500 >> Message-Id: <0004F3A3.CE21321@riag.com> >> Subject: Posting >> To: jmazefsky@aol.com, jmazefsky@valsmtp.riag.com >> Content-Description: cc:Mail note part >> Mime-Version: 1.0 >> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >> Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >> >> JOB TITLE: Indexer >> >> COMPANY: RIA Group >> For More Info Visit Us @ www.riatax.com >> >> LOCATION: 90 Fifth Avenue, NY, NY 10011 >> >> CONTACT: Louiza Papaloizou, >> fax #: 212-337-4268 or >> e-mail: lpapaloizou@riag.com >> >> DATE: December 7, 1998 >> >> Job Description: >> >> Drafts and compiles index lines from editorial manuscript into >> logically organized indexes. Including the description and location >> of topics or subject matter in assigned company publications. Duties >> also include maintaining and revising existing indexes. >> >> Qualifications: >> >> Thorough working knowledge of indexing with superior reading >> comprehension and analytical skills. Familiarity with terminology of >> tax and legal publishing is important. Candidate must be >> self-motivated and be able to work independently on projects. College >> degree required. >> >> Experience: >> >> Some indexing experience on professional publications with previous >> usage of technical, legal or tax terminology is preferred but we are >> willing to train. Knowledge of Word, and the development and >> modification of glossary function is helpful, in addition to an >> understanding of the operations and applications of data processing >> programs. Experience in CINDEX, MACREX is a plus. >> >> --part0_913242795_boundary-- > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 15:40:10 -0800 >From: Jeri Lee >Subject: Re: Fwd: Posting - Indexing position; sorry > >I forgot to check the To: section - sorry! > >Jeri Lee > >Jeri Lee wrote: > >> Janet, >> >> Colleen Dunham suggested I contact you regarding a >> possible indexing assignment. >> >> Colleen has been working with me on learning legal >> indexing and says to tell you it would be "a combined effort." >> As such, a project with a deadline that isn't extremely >> tight would be helpful. >> >> My background is 35 years in the medical field, two as >> an x-ray technician, two as a radiation therapy technician, >> and three as a nuclear medicine technician; the balance >> has been as a medical transcriptionist, the last 20 in my own >> business. All of the above were learned by "seat of the pants," >> as it were experience. >> >> I also took a year of legal assistant training and >> subsequently freelanced as an electronic and mask >> court reporter before a variety of state and federal >> agencies on a part-time basis for ten years. >> >> Please let me know if any additional information would >> be helpful to you. >> >> One question: Is this on-site or freelance? >> >> Thanks in advance for your consideration. >> >> Jeri Lee >> >> 17233 - 140th Avenue SE, #104 >> Renton, Washington 98058 >> >> Phone: 425-254-1352 >> Fax: 425-254-1360 >> E-mail: indexer@dbic.net >> >> Janet Mazefsky wrote: >> >> > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. >> > >> > --part0_913242795_boundary >> > Content-ID: <0_913242795@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> >> > Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >> > >> > --part0_913242795_boundary >> > Content-ID: <0_913242795@inet_out.mail.valsmtp.riag.com.2> >> > Content-type: message/rfc822 >> > Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >> > Content-disposition: inline >> > >> > Return-Path: >> > Received: from rly-zc03.mx.aol.com (rly-zc03.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.3]) by >> > air-zc05.mail.aol.com (v53.20) with SMTP; Wed, 09 Dec 1998 10:08:59 >> > 1900 >> > Received: from gateway.tpp.com (gateway.TPP.com [198.81.246.2]) >> > by rly-zc03.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) >> > with SMTP id KAA15198 for ; >> > Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:08:57 -0500 (EST) >> > From: lpapaloizou@valsmtp.riag.com >> > Received: by gateway.tpp.com id KAA17121 >> > (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for jmazefsky@aol.com); >> > Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:06:06 -0500 >> > Received: by gateway.tpp.com (Internal Mail Agent-1); >> > Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:06:06 -0500 >> > Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:08:17 -0500 >> > Message-Id: <0004F3A3.CE21321@riag.com> >> > Subject: Posting >> > To: jmazefsky@aol.com, jmazefsky@valsmtp.riag.com >> > Content-Description: cc:Mail note part >> > Mime-Version: 1.0 >> > Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >> > Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >> > >> > JOB TITLE: Indexer >> > >> > COMPANY: RIA Group >> > For More Info Visit Us @ www.riatax.com >> > >> > LOCATION: 90 Fifth Avenue, NY, NY 10011 >> > >> > CONTACT: Louiza Papaloizou, >> > fax #: 212-337-4268 or >> > e-mail: lpapaloizou@riag.com >> > >> > DATE: December 7, 1998 >> > >> > Job Description: >> > >> > Drafts and compiles index lines from editorial manuscript into >> > logically organized indexes. Including the description and location >> > of topics or subject matter in assigned company publications. Duties >> > also include maintaining and revising existing indexes. >> > >> > Qualifications: >> > >> > Thorough working knowledge of indexing with superior reading >> > comprehension and analytical skills. Familiarity with terminology of >> > tax and legal publishing is important. Candidate must be >> > self-motivated and be able to work independently on projects. College >> > degree required. >> > >> > Experience: >> > >> > Some indexing experience on professional publications with previous >> > usage of technical, legal or tax terminology is preferred but we are >> > willing to train. Knowledge of Word, and the development and >> > modification of glossary function is helpful, in addition to an >> > understanding of the operations and applications of data processing >> > programs. Experience in CINDEX, MACREX is a plus. >> > >> > --part0_913242795_boundary-- > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 20:17:49 +0000 >From: Sylvia Coates >Subject: need resource > >Hello everyone, > >I have already privately thanked everyone who responded to my cry for >help. However, I also wanted to thank the list for allowing me to >impose upon it. > >What a wonderful group of people we have on the list! > >Best, >Sylvia Coates > >------------------------------ > >End of INDEX-L Digest - 8 Dec 1998 to 9 Dec 1998 >************************************************ > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 06:54:01 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: Here's a new one for ya In-Reply-To: <199812100926.BAA20560@decibel.electriciti.com> At 12:08 AM 12/10/98 -0800, Martha asked about: >Would I index items from this section (entitled "Notes") by only picking up >what has been overtly discussed in the book and included in the index? Or >(Goddess forbid) pick up everything and turning the already-restricted >index into a bibliography? > I would opt for the first, but check with the publisher to verify. > Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 16:12:06 -0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sven Wair Subject: Re: Zeppos & Associates, Incorporated I have just received a digest of previous postings to Index-L from Zeppos & Associates, Inc. Has anybody else? What's going on? Following on so quickly, as it does, after Jermey and Browne's posting on 'Pruning quotes', one wonders if someone is raising two fingers (one, I believe, in the US) to them. Sven M. Wair 17, Cedars Road, Colchester, Essex, CO2 7BS, UK. Fax & Tel: 01206 563 824 email: svwa@globalnet.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 08:22:17 -0800 Reply-To: dmbrown@brown-inc.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: Zeppos & Associates, Incorporated Sven-- > > I have just received a digest of previous postings to Index-L from > Zeppos & Associates, Inc. Has anybody else? > What's going on? I assume it went to the entire list. Perhaps a digest subscriber accidentally clicked on the Reply button rather than the Delete button. One can only hope, eh? --David ============================= David M. Brown - Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ============================= N O W A V A I L A B L E ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ Try HTML Indexer, the easiest way to create and maintain real back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:28:13 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Melinda Davis Organization: Univ. of Tennessee College of Law Subject: Re: Zeppos & Associates, Incorporated As "volunteer, temporary misdirected mail monitor" in Charlotte's absence, let me make a two-part object lesson out of this. #1: The posting from Zeppos, etc. was an "unsubscribe" request--remember all "commands" have to go to the Listserv "processor" address: in this case, listserv@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu #2: Different e-mail systems have different defaults and processes--now is a good time to check yours and see what happens when you hit reply. Does yours automatically include the text of the message you are replying to? Do you know how to tell it not to? Do you know how to cut (or prune) the quoted text down to the essentials? Practice by sending yourself some messages. Regards, Melinda Melinda D. Davis Assistant Professor and Catalog Librarian College of Law Library University of Tennessee 1505 W. Cumberland Avenue Knoxville, TN 37996-1800 (423) 974-6552 (423) 974-6571 (fax) e-mail: davis@libra.law.utk.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:17:11 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Shirley K Warkentin Subject: Re: Here's a new one for ya On Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:08:02 -0800 Back Words Indexing writes: >Would I index items from this section (entitled "Notes") by only >picking up what has been overtly discussed in the book and included in the index? Or (Goddess forbid) pick up everything and turning the >already-restricted index into a bibliography? > My feeling is to pick up all the nuggets, no matter where they are, no matter if the topic was covered in the main portion of the book or not. Sometimes after I have indexed the regular chapters of a book, I _feel like_ the remainder is an "illegal alien." However, the notes are part of the information in the book so why not help the readers find these information nuggets? Shirley Warkentin Cornerstone Indexing BUILDING A BETTER BOOK! indexer@juno.com http://home.earthlink.net/~warkentin4 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 16:47:08 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "S. Greenhouse" Subject: Great database indexing article All, For those interested in database indexing, Helen Ochej has written a spectacular article in the most recent issue of Key Words, ASI's bimonthly newsletter. She describes the process indexers working for the National Library of Medicine and its contractors go through analyzing the text of a journal article and assigning terms from the Medical Subject Headings (MeSH) thesaurus, as well as giving us a good look at the online indexing system in-house and contract indexers use to create a database record. It's a wonderful, well written article that will serve as an excellent reference for anyone who wants to know more about medical database indexing. Helen, please let us know how we can get reprints of this article. Shelley Greenhouse greenhou@erols.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 16:01:20 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeri Lee Subject: Re: Medical dictionary IMHO Dorland's sucks (how's that for rude, crude and to the point!) I'm sticking with Sedman's. BTW, all, my hard drive is in the process of disintegrating and I'm trying to pull my data off onto 1.4's (no tape drive yet), so if you don't hear from me for a while, that's why! Jeri Lee Laurence Errington wrote: > This a kind of repeat message. Anyone out there on views on CDROM > medical dictionaries. I've heard only one or two on Stedman's and none > on Dorlands, and their ease of use compared to the book. I've used a > book for years but I appear to have a bit of a shoulder problem lugging > it up and down 50+ or whatever times a day (so says my orthopaedic > specialist!) > > If you have any views, please mention how good they are at mentioning > the synonymous terms, and in cross-referencing from those synonymous > terms in the dictionary to the chosen term. > -- > Dr Laurence Errington > 15 Kirkhill Terrace, Edinburgh, Scotland, EH16 5DQ > Tel: 0044-(0)131-667-5406 > Fax: 0044-(0)131-667-5406 (9-7pm GMT weekdays only) > E-Mail: laurence@errington-index.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 19:54:47 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Debbie Olson Subject: Re: Newspaper Indexing Dear Jackie, There is a chapter on newspaper indexing policies and procedures excerpted from News Media Libraries: A Management Handbook by Barbara P. Semonche and an extensive bibliography available at: http://metalab.unc.edu/journalism/indexing.html Debbie Olson Dbolso@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 09:37:22 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Judith W. Kip" Subject: Indexing endnotes The list has been so quiet lately, I hope some of your are still= out there ... I have indexed many books with end notes and generally just index= new information that appears in the notes. But I am currently working o= n a book where the author (and therefore the publisher) wants me to index a= ll the authors even mentioned in the end notes regardless of mention in the text or lack of information in the notes. That's not problem, but what d= o I do with multiple references to the same author and book and with ibids and op cits? Do I have a string to locators in the end notes for these names or do I just index the first mention? Having to index every reference to them could make a pretty ugly mess before I'm done. I'd welcome advice on or off list. Thanks Judy Kip ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:07:39 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ellen Davenport Subject: Term selection Hello: A few months ago, Dan Connolly set up an e-mail discussion group for his fellow USDA indexing students. In an initial survey of educational needs, many of us said that term selection was the most difficult part of learning to index, and that we needed more practice than we were getting just through the course. To provide an opportunity for more practice, we've recently begun a series of term-selection exercises: a member posts a short selection of text, participants select terms, then everyone posts their "solutions" to the list. The first exercise was 9 paragraphs taken from a book on history. The person who posted the exercise suggested we "don't over-index the selection--treat it as part of a larger document." My inclination was to treat the 9-paragraphs as the entire document and select terms from that perspective. Since the first exercise, there has been some discussion within our group regarding how to appropriately select terms from (very) short pieces of text taken from larger documents. We could use some feedback from this group on how to make these exercises most useful. My concern about these exercises is that it feels like we are being asked to draw a map of our county and are then told not to go into a lot of detail, that the map is actually part of a map of the world. Unless it's a _really_ big map, the outlines of our county wouldn't even show up, let alone any of the towns, rivers, or mountains. On the other hand, if we map the county in a way that would be useful to someone driving through, we would include a lot of details. I guess the main question I have is, are there 'absolute' terms in an index, i.e., terms that any indexer should most likely select, regardless of whether the text is part of a larger document or stand-alone text? Or is the level of detail indicated by the text as a whole? Do you just select the 6-7 most important terms on each page? Are we, as students, going to learn bad indexing habits treating our exercise texts from either of these contexts? How do people like Do Mi Stauber teach term selection in short workshops (does she use short texts)? Is this a good way for us to practice term selection? Thanks for any clarity you can provide on this topic. Ellen Davenport davenport@metro.net ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ If all is not lost, where is it? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 10:05:26 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J. Naomi Linzer" Subject: Re: Indexing endnotes In-Reply-To: <199812111559.HAA18785@neti.saber.net> Please answer on-list. This looks like a good topic for discussion. Naomi > The list has been so quiet lately, I hope some of your are still= > >out there ... > I have indexed many books with end notes and generally just index= > >new information that appears in the notes. But I am currently working o= >n >a book where the author (and therefore the publisher) wants me to index a= >ll >the authors even mentioned in the end notes regardless of mention in the >text or lack of information in the notes. That's not problem, but what d= >o >I do with multiple references to the same author and book and with ibids >and op cits? Do I have a string to locators in the end notes for these >names or do I just index the first mention? Having to index every >reference to them could make a pretty ugly mess before I'm done. > I'd welcome advice on or off list. > >Thanks > >Judy Kip ******************************************************************************** Ms. J. Naomi Linzer Indexing Services POB 1341 Redway, CA 95560 (707) 923-4361 jnlinzer@saber.net ******************************************************************************** ******* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 13:05:32 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Spern Subject: Re: Term selection In Ellen's latest message she said: "How do people like Do Mi Stauber teach term selection in short workshops (does she use short texts)? Is this a good way for us to practice term selection?" I think is exactly the way to teaching indexing! The confusion about the "style and guidelines" has been the best lesson yet. Where I consult, it is a similar situation to this exercise. Maybe our techniques for group consistency will help here. We trade and compare terms and term selection. We have guidelines: numbers of terms, which dictionary or thesaurus to use, etc. If we didn't have these rules, we couldn't continue to create consistent, accurate, and detailed indexes. -- So, for this exercise, we should share ideas, like we have been. We should agree to a set of formatting rules, even if they are artificial. The rules make sure everyone plays the same way, so the differences we see in the final product will be because we all have different ideas about term selection, not format. And we need to agree on some indexing rules. Maybe someone could draw up some VERY basic indexing guidelines and post them to the list for discussion. For example, from now on each text material chould be treated as a "single and complete piece." We could agree to never use page numbers, etc. I love these exercises. They have been a great help to me. I hope we continue them. Thanks! Karen Spern ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 14:22:31 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary Mortensen Subject: Re: Term selection This is of course a huge topic, and difficult to discuss without real examples, but here are a couple thoughts at least. > I guess the main question I have is, are there 'absolute' terms in an > index, i.e., terms that any indexer should most likely select, regardless > of whether the text is part of a larger document or stand-alone text? If the question is about concepts to be indexed, I don't think there is any absolute; context rules. (Proper names are a simpler case, but still there are situations, such as cited authors or passing mentions, when they might not be indexed.) I think your exercise may be causing difficulties precisely because it is out of context. I imagine that most of you would find the decisions a bit easier if you were indexing the entire book. That said, I often ask myself these questions: "Is there information here about this thing/place/concept/person? Would a reader want to find this information?" Usually, I stop after the first question if the answer is "yes" and index the term. If the answer is "no", I don't index it. If the answer is "Well, a bit of information", I ask myself the second question. The other context issue is the type of book. In scholarly books, I index at a lower level of detail than in a textbook. Let's see if I can give a concrete example. If the entire history book is about, say, the Vietnam War and the nine paragraphs describe one battle, I would index the name of the battle with a locator covering the entire 9 paragraphs. I would not create subentries for the battle entry. If it were a scholarly book, I *might* create entries for terms such as 'medical evacuation', or a plane type, or a military tactic that was used, with the thought that these concepts might also be discussed elsewhere in the book. If it were a textbook, I probably would not; the battle name would be the important entry. Since I'm just using my imagination here, I can't say for certain. I agree that this is one of the most difficult aspects of indexing to learn. The good news is that, as others have mentioned on this list, it does get easier with practice. And on a more general note, I just read Barbara Cohen's review of an index in the Sept/Oct issue of KeyWords. I highly recommend it especially to those in the midst of learnng to index. (And Barbara didn't ask me to say this ;-) ) Back to work for me, looking at terms in a book on Japanese welfare politics and the bureaucracy... Mary -- * Mary Mortensen * marymort@aol.com * Lawrence, Kansas, USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 12:02:49 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: Term selection In-Reply-To: <199812111628.IAA09423@mail-gw5.pacbell.net> Hi Ellen, At the risk of being royally toasted for my views here, I have to question whether it's a good idea to treat the passage as if it's part of a larger book. I truly share your discomfort with this. Yet, by no means do I intend at all to detract from Dan Connely's fine efforts to help USDA students! If you were actually indexing the passage in the course of indexing the entire book, you have the context of the entire book to work with in making your term-selection decisions. And, when you go to edit the index to the entire book, you would tweak the entries you made for that one passage within the context of the entire index. In the editing process, you would probably subsume some of the detail found in lower-level entries into higher-level entries, as an example and reword others to fit nicely within the structural context of the index. Other entries would likely be jettisoned altogether because they turned out to be merely passing references. OTOH, if you indexed the 9 paragraphs as an entire document, you could make your term selection based on the relative importance of the concepts within the 9-paragraph "document" as a whole. IMHO, this would be a more useful exercise in developing the ability to determine which entries to create. >I guess the main question I have is, are there 'absolute' terms in an >index, i.e., terms that any indexer should most likely select, regardless >of whether the text is part of a larger document or stand-alone text? Or >is the level of detail indicated by the text as a whole? There are no "absolutes" in indexing. ;-D To more seriously answer your question, I believe that there are some concepts that are so important (read: likely to retrieved) that they should be indexed, even if they are described in only a very few sentences. So, your rule of thumb, IMHO, should be whether this is information that a reader may want to find in the book via the index. OTOH, yes, the level of detail is to some degree governed by the text as a whole. One important thing that factors into the level of detail or exhausivity of the index is the type of text and its audience. (But don't define "audience" too narrowly.) For example, take two different books on networks. One is an introductory text on basic networking principles. Another is a treatise for MIS professionals covering technical details on protocols, firewalls, topologies, etc. The second book would be indexed at a higher level of detail than the first. There would be terms common to both books, however, that should find their way into both indexes (your "absolute" terms). The difference in treatment of a common term between the two would likely show up in the number of subentries (more for the more technical book). Do you just >select the 6-7 most important terms on each page? Are we, as students, >going to learn bad indexing habits treating our exercise texts from either >of these contexts? If I remember correctly from when I took the USDA course, we treated the source text for our indexing exercises as entire documents (like the American Express brochure we had to index, for example). There isn't a magical number of terms to select from each page, though there are averages (with some pages having more and others less) based on the type of text you're indexing. BTW, 6 or 7 terms implies a more technical text. ;-D The only bad habit I'm concerned about (though others may disagree) would be indexing too lightly due to treating the passage as only a small part of some larger unknown quantity. You'd tend to skim over it more lightly in indexing, IMHO. I don't think this would stimulate the development of concept analysis skills as readily as if the passage were treated as an entire document. How do people like Do Mi Stauber teach term selection >in short workshops (does she use short texts)? Is this a good way for us >to practice term selection? Well, being that you brought up Do Mi, maybe she would grace us all with her ideas on this fascinating question. ;-D Lynn *********************************** Lynn Moncrief (techndex@pacbell.net) The purpose of life is to matter - to count, to stand for something, to have it make some difference that we lived at all. - Leo Rosten *********************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 14:20:55 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joanne Clendenen Subject: Re: Indexing endnotes In-Reply-To: <199812111603.KAA04766@centurion.flash.net> I really hate this. I've been put in this type of situation before with referential mentions of names in the text itself, but never the notes, too! What a mess! I assume this is for vanity purposes, or for scientific citing, but I don't think the index is the place for this. That's what a bibliography is for. I would really fight this one with the argument that all those locators would be a disservice to the user. If I were going to put the names in, I think it would be better to reference the text where the note number occurs, rather than the page in the back where the note itself is. I'm assuming that in most cases, the person's ideas or research are talked about in the text at the point the note number is given. At least you'd have some substance to make subentries out of, to avoid those long strings of page numbers (and note numbers). The only problem is, that the person's name may or may not be mentioned in the text at that point, thus potentially misleading the user. Really gets my dander up, it does.... My indexing heart goes out to you, Joanne AfterWords Indexing Services Joanne E. Clendenen email: jbclend@bigfoot.com http://www.flash.net/~jbclend ---------------- "When your work speaks for itself, don't interrupt." Henry J. Kaiser -----Original Message----- From: Indexer's Discussion Group [mailto:INDEX-L@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu] On Behalf Of Judith W. Kip Sent: Friday, December 11, 1998 8:37 AM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: Indexing endnotes The list has been so quiet lately, I hope some of your are still= out there ... I have indexed many books with end notes and generally just index= new information that appears in the notes. But I am currently working o= n a book where the author (and therefore the publisher) wants me to index a= ll the authors even mentioned in the end notes regardless of mention in the text or lack of information in the notes. That's not problem, but what d= o I do with multiple references to the same author and book and with ibids and op cits? Do I have a string to locators in the end notes for these names or do I just index the first mention? Having to index every reference to them could make a pretty ugly mess before I'm done. I'd welcome advice on or off list. Thanks Judy Kip ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 13:12:00 -0800 Reply-To: jeanmidd@prodigy.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jean Middleton Subject: Re: Term selection I hope Do Mi will respond to your questions. I was fortunate to attend Do Mi's workshop "Facing the Text" this past summer. I find invaluable the written materials she gave us. Some of the things that have helped me most from her workshop were the following "rules": (1) be careful how you index the main topic (metatopic) of the book, if at all ;(2) if you pick up a topic, pick it up throughout the book (she calls this "Do Mi's First Rule); (3) gather "low-hanging fruit" first (book titles, names, and other obvious topics); and (4) in some books text headings are not necessarily useful. These are only a very few of the concepts she teaches in her workshop. As a new indexer, I have found her workshop invaluable. She may be writing a book covering this topic. Jean Middleton jeanmidd@prodigy.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 16:34:33 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Term selection All, The question of term selection goes back to a very basic concept in indexing: the question of what is indexable. I agree with most of what has been said so far about context. This plays into the decision quite a bit. But there is more. Somewhere in an indexer's thinking, again and again, decisions are made as to whether something merits being included in the index or not. This becomes second nature, subliminal, after a while.. Different people have different ways of expressing this concept of "indexable term". Some say that there has to be a distinct "nugget" of information there. My way is to think "backwards" -- if I were the index user, and I turned to this page, would I consider that there was a fact there, on the page referred to, on the topic heading I was looking under. If I think I might not consider "that" enough information to have kept me happy as a searcher, then it is a weak choice, and I would not include it in the index. So, while context is important, as is the audience for the book, most important is whether there is enough information there to call the information an "indexable term". Some might argue that in an advanced book, you do not need to index basic definitions, that are almost a given for the intended audience in a book. I would disagree. I index all indexable material, within the guidelines given me by my publisher client (if they have given me any), and use the subheadings to differentiate the information. Then the index user can decide whether the information in that subheading is useful to him/her or not. If an advanced user were to see "XXX, defined, 23" he/she could skip looking there if he/she thought it would be too elementary. But I feel that my job as an indexer is to index the indexable material in the book. Just a bit of a different spin on this. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 17:29:30 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Debra Lindblom Subject: Re: Term selection In a message dated 12/11/98 4:20:30 PM EST, jeanmidd@prodigy.net writes: << These are only a very few of the concepts she teaches in her workshop. As a new indexer, I have found her workshop invaluable. She may be writing a book covering this topic. Jean Middleton jeanmidd@prodigy.net >> I also found DoMi's workshop extremely valuable as a new indexer. The USDA course covered the basics very well, which is what it is designed to do. The "Facing the Text" workshop took my learning to the next level. I hope she does write a book. Debbie Lindblom alindblom@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 08:45:06 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Fred Brown Subject: Re: online thesauri In my understanding, much of the work around designing thesauri has been = focussed on the print medium. Attempts to put thesauri online have = largely been based on the print model. Because of the smaller viewing = area of a computer monitor and lower resolution, this approach hasn't = worked all that well. In my view, online thesauri would benefit from applying ideas from = interface design and contextual inquiry. And the computer offers = capabilities such as hypertext and fast searching. Last April, Dr. Bella Hass Weinberg presented an interesting seminar on = the subject, entitled "Vocabulary Links:// Thesaurus Design for = Information Systems." A synthesis of the seminar should be appearing in = Key Words (perhaps in the November/December edition). Statistics Canada uses an interesting, easy-to-use online thesaurus:=20 http://www.statcan.ca/english/search/ips.htm To access the thesaurus, select the "Expanded terms (Thesaurus)" = checkbox on the search page. The search engine scans the thesaurus = terms for words that match your search words. The thesaurus has no "use = for" relationships (synonyms) or broader/narrower terms (hierarchy) -- = which limits the usefulness of the thesaurus. However, it does provide = a useful model for building an easy-to-use interface to an online = thesaurus. Fred Brown * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Fred Brown McCrae Consulting Associates "effective business and technical documentation" Email: fredb@cyberus.ca Web: http://www.cyberus.ca/~fredb Phone: 613-728-5761 Fax: 613-728-9373 Ottawa, Ontario, Canada K1Y 0N8 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 10:03:39 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jay Habegger Subject: Re: online thesauri Fred: I share your observation that online thesauri would greatly benefit electronic access to information. To that end, our new site for IT professionals, www.bitpipe.com, uses a proprietary IT thesaurus to ease access to information. We haven't fully integrated all aspects of this yet, but we allow you to search across thesaurus terms and then browse data by navigating among terms in the thesaurus. The thesaurus is integrated to some degree with our "simple search". Each document you access also includes links to related terms, broader terms and narrower terms. There is also facility for people to propose new additions to the thesaurus. The thesaurus also drives our automated HTML meta-tagging for each document. We still have a lot of work to do to fully exploit the thesaurus concept, but it clearly offers huge benefits. Any suggestions or ideas from this group would be appreciated. We also need help in cataloging documents against the thesaurus as they are submitted. Any suggestions along these lines will also be appreciated. - J At 08:45 AM 12/12/98 -0500, Fred Brown wrote: > >In my understanding, much of the work around designing thesauri has been = >focussed on the print medium. Attempts to put thesauri online have = >largely been based on the print model. Because of the smaller viewing = >area of a computer monitor and lower resolution, this approach hasn't = >worked all that well. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 13:08:38 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Alex O. Trotter" Subject: Re: digest version Hello, fellow indexers. I'm new to this list. Sorry to bother you with a question like this, but I can't figure it out on my own: How do I subscribe to the digest version of this list? I would appreciate it if someone could tell me off-list. Thanks. AT ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 20:28:12 -0000 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Printers I use a tractor-feed dot matrix printer. How good at self-feeding are inkjet printers for long print runs as for index hard copies? Regards _John Sampson_ ------------------------------------------------- John R. Sampson jsampson@indexes.u-net.com (for certified PGP public key search for this address on World Wide Web at http://www.Four11.com/) ------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 16:30:35 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: "Names changed to protect the innocent..." I am currently indexing a memoir, the first I have done. The author has disguised the names of a number of people for the sake of their privacy, including, I suspect, the names of his own family members. These pseudonyms are easily recognized since they consist only of a given name (Mary, David, etc.) There are a lot of them. Some are relatively minor, and can probably be disregarded. For the rest, I plan to try to identify them somehow: Mary (student activist); David (JD's roommate). Is this reasonable? Or is there some other convention on dealing with privacy pseudonyms? It doesn't seem right to disregard them all altogether; after all, someone who has read the book and wants to find something again may well remember these names. I am quite limited as to space, so I also need to figure out the best way to handle all the information about the author. I don't want to reprise the book or duplicate half the other entries under the author's name in the index. What's the best way to avoid this? I could eliminate the author's name as an entry, and to put entries about him/her under topics like "mother, relationship with," "X college, attendance at," etc, but this seems both odd and perhaps unclear. Would a reader assume that "drug use" referred to the author's drug use (it doesn't), or drug use as generalized about by the author (it does)? It would be clearer to say "Mother, JD's relationship with," and "X college, JD's attendance at", but if I go that route, there will be a *lot* of repetition of "JD" in this index. (I should point out that this is a memoir, as opposed to an autobiography. IOW, it contains a fair amount of autobiographical material, but is about the author's participation in a certain movement, and his/her life as it pertains to and reflects upon that movement. So there is quite a bit of non-biographical material to include as well.) I would be interested to hear how others have solved this dilemma when space is tight. Thank you, Kara Pekar jkpekar@crosslink.net Wordsmith Indexing Services 8112 Harrison Dr. King George, VA 22485 (540) 775-4072 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 20:40:49 PST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Manjit Sahai Subject: Getting business through Indexer Locator listing of ASI Hi everyone, I just received the latest issue of KEY WORDS. In this issue there was a form attached for listing your business in Indexer Locator of ASI. I want to know if anyone has gotton any business through this listing. How often you get the business through this listing and if it is WORTH SPENDING $75.00. After all it is a lot of money. I would appreciate all kinds of opinions on this subject matter. There is not much time left to decide about this issue. Thanks in advance. Manjit K. Sahai RAM Indexing Services ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 21:45:03 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Back Words Indexing Subject: Re: Indexer Locator listing >I want to know if anyone has gotton any business through this listing. >How often you get the business through this listing and if it is WORTH >SPENDING $75.00. After all it is a lot of money. I have. That one job will pay for my ASI membership and Indexer Locator listing for the next 5 years (at the new dues level!). I was real happy about it. I'm real happy about my ASI membership in general, too. Martha Osgood Back Words Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 23:54:59 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: Getting business through Indexer Locator listing of ASI In-Reply-To: <199812130441.UAA08453@pacific.net> I'll let others speak to the issue of whether the ^Indexer Locator^ is a worthwhile investment. I would like to correct a misimpression that may have been given. >I want to know if anyone has gotton any business through this listing. >How often you get the business through this listing and if it is WORTH >SPENDING $75.00. After all it is a lot of money. The basic listing costs $50.00. For $75.00 a person may list themselves under both a personal and business name, instead of simply one or the other. Victoria Baker Chief cook and bottle washer The Indexer Locator ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 06:10:19 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Re: Getting busines through Indexer Locator I've had a listing in every issue of Locator since 1992. And I've gotten at least one job (minimum) from each issue, verified by the fact that the client mentioned that he/she got my name from the Locator (or from the ASI office in the days when verbal referrals were being made from the Locator database, which they no longer are). Your Experience May Vary. 8=) Carolyn Weaver ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 09:31:46 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary Mortensen Subject: Re: Getting business through Indexer Locator listing of ASI > I want to know if anyone has gotton any business through this listing. I have gotten one new client through my listing in the 1997 edition. The client gave me two projects this year and I anticipate more in the future. I also use the listings to search for an indexer when I can't take on a project (due to lack of time or subject expertise.) I use the subject listing and then read the indexers' statements. I look for evidence of the indexer's background in that subject area. (This is going to change the way I write my own personal statement this year, I think.) I would recommend that indexers who are starting out describe their academic and work experience in their personal statement to show evidence of their subject expertise, to counteract the fact that they can't write '15 years experience' in their listing. Although the ASI SIGs are developing into a resource for referrals as well, they are more narrowly focused and one must be a member to obtain a member listing (for good reasons). For the cost of the Indexer Locator listing, I also get a copy of the booklet that I view as a great resource. I should mention that I don't know how often my referrals have resulted in work for the person, but I do know of a couple cases. Also, if I haven't seen the indexer's work, I make it clear to the client what my referral is based on. The Indexer Locator is not only a way to advertise your services to potential clients, but to your fellow indexers as well. I hope many of you will be listed there so that I'll be able to find you. My two cents, anyway... Mary -- * Mary Mortensen * marymort@aol.com * Lawrence, Kansas, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 11:14:15 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Suellen Kasoff Subject: Re: Getting business through Indexer Locator listing of ASI Hey Manjit, it's only $50.00 for one listing, and yes I think it's worth it. Suellen On Sat, 12 Dec 1998 20:40:49 PST Manjit Sahai writes: >Hi everyone, > >I just received the latest issue of KEY WORDS. In this issue there was >a >form attached for listing your business in Indexer Locator of ASI. > >I want to know if anyone has gotton any business through this listing. >How often you get the business through this listing and if it is WORTH >SPENDING $75.00. After all it is a lot of money. > >I would appreciate all kinds of opinions on this subject matter. There >is not much time left to decide about this issue. > >Thanks in advance. > >Manjit K. Sahai >RAM Indexing Services > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 11:51:52 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Getting business through Indexer Locator listing of ASI Manjit, and all. Heed Mary's words. I too look for indexers to refer to in Indexer Locator. It is an invaluable networking tool when a busy indexer needs to pass a name on the a client because they can't take on a job. And I too can trace jobs back to it. I don't think it can ever be the mainstay of your marketing, but, OTOH, it is an excellent tool, and I consider it part of my marketing visibility. I try to get listings in as many directories of that kind as I can. Other organizations put them out too -- others in the freelance area as well as publishing fields, and then there are always the professional organizations in your subject area(s) who also put out this kind of directory. The money spent on such listings gets your name out where people who are likely to be looking for you will be able to find you. If you can budget a few hundred dollars for memberships and directory listings, it will go a long way toward growing your practice/business. Whatever you can budget in that way is a good investment. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 10:51:00 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Laura R Rustin Subject: Capitalization question In-Reply-To: <199812131614.KAA01626@freebird.ghofn.org> Hello all. Not really indexing, but I'm hoping the collection wisdom can help. Thanks in advance, and happy holidays. What is the convention regarding capitalization of the initial lower-case article in a French name when it begins a sentence, such as Gillaume de Machaut: "de Machaut's major contribution to art and music" or "De Machaut's major contribution" Thanks. Laura Rustin Research Consultant and Indexer Houston, Texas ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 12:55:38 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jennifer M. Cain" Subject: Re: Capitalization question Hi Laura, According to Le Bon Usage, a French grammar bible, yes, the normally lowercase article (or "noble particle") in a person's surname should be capitalized at the beginning of a sentence. Specifically, all sentences in French, like in English, should begin with a capital. Je vous en prie (You're welcome) :-) Jennifer M. Cain ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 16:30:42 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Term selection In-Reply-To: <199812120505.XAA12192@mixcom.mixcom.com> >Some might argue that in an advanced book, you do not need to index basic >definitions, that are almost a given for the intended audience in a book. > I certainly agree with Janet. If I'm indexing a scholarly philosophy book and come across something like "Metaphysics is the study of . . .," I'm going to index "metaphysics," despite the fact that the intended audience for the book should already know what metaphysics is. The author thought, for some reason, that it was important to define that term, and it's not my job to second-guess her. As for the level of detail (setting aside the question of how to index a USDA assignment), for me that is determined by the density of the material or by explicit instructions from the editor. So I would almost never approach the text with a rule of thumb like "pick the 6 or 7 most important terms." Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 15:47:44 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Indexer Locator listing At 09:45 PM 12/12/1998 -0800, Back Words Indexing wrote: >>I want to know if anyone has gotton any business through this listing. >>How often you get the business through this listing and if it is WORTH >>SPENDING $75.00. After all it is a lot of money. I guess I'll be the first (and maybe the only) person to step up to the plate and say that as far as I know, I have never gotten a job through my listing...but I faithfully renew it each year. And I renew my ASI membership each time, as well, because I believe in the system and I want it to work. I've had referrals from fellow indexers here on the list--and have made several, myself, to folks I've "talked" with here. I feel more comfortable referring a job out to someone that I've had at least some personal contact with, which is why the list is the first place I look for help when I need it (not the Indexer Locator). Just my two cents' worth... =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 19:25:27 +0000 Reply-To: connolly@neca.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dan Connolly Organization: Word For Word Indexing and Editing Services Subject: Term Selection Exercise on Indexstudents list Hi all, I certainly appreciate all of your thoughts on this exercise. I really want it to be useful. If anyone is interested in joining us, you're always welcome. You can subscribe at http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/indexstudents. There are almost 200 of us now and while most listmembers are beginners/students, there are a number of experienced indexers whose contributions are invaluable. Particularly in these exercises. If anyone has some free time this week, our next exercise is at this web site. http://www.vn.fi/vn/um/finfo/english/joulueng.html. It is an article (a whole unit) on Christmas in Finland. If you'd like to give me your term selections, I'll post them to our list for you. We post the solutions on Sunday (or Monday if you don't work weekends) so this one is due on 12/20. Dan -- ============================================ Daniel A. Connolly mailto:connolly@neca.com= WORD FOR WORD Indexing Services============= www.wfwIndex.necaweb.com======= Woodstock, CT, USA====== ================== ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 18:38:07 PST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Manjit Sahai Subject: Indexer Locator listing Hi all, Thanks a lot to all of you for your opinions on Indexer Locator listing. It sure has helped me to make my decision. I am mailing my check tomorrow and will keep hoping for the best. You guys are really wonderful !! Happy Holidays to everyone. Manjit K. Sahai RAM Indexing Services ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 19:03:12 PST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Manjit Sahai Subject: FrameMaker Consultant wanted Hi everyone, My husband is writing a book on MicroStation. It is a CAD software used for engineering and architectural companies. (BTW, he is Structural Engineer by profession and has full time engineering job). He is passionate about computers in general and CAD in particular. His book is still in progress. He is using FrameMaker for writing his book. He is VERY familiar with this software, but does not have the time to do the formatting. He does need some help/consultation in that aspect. I am not very familiar with all the details. By the way, the consultant SHOULD be from Washington, DC metro area and the consultant will HAVE to work in Sterling, VA office. This job is just for full one day. If anyone is interested, he/she can contact my husband for further details at Ranjit@ram-corp.com. His name is RANJIT S. SAHAI. Please DO NOT contact me at my email address. And also please do not send your reply to Index-L as I do not check my mail daily. Thanks in advance. Manjit K. Sahai RAM Indexing Services ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 08:28:13 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "William G. Meisheid" Subject: Re: Term selection >I certainly agree with Janet. If I'm indexing a scholarly philosophy book >and come across something like "Metaphysics is the study of . . .," I'm >going to index "metaphysics," despite the fact that the intended audience >for the book should already know what metaphysics is. The author thought, >for some reason, that it was important to define that term, and it's not my >job to second-guess her. In addition, the reader may want to interact with the author's definitions, since it will give them a ready clue into the author's a prioris, which affect everything else they are writing. I have always related the editing-like aspects of indexing to what additional terms to use to map to the reader's vocabulary, not what of what the author wrote can I leave out. ________________________________________________ William Meisheid "Thoughts still and always in progress" WUGNET/Help Authoring Forum Sysop & Microsoft MVP Certified Baltimore/Washington area RoboHELP Training Sageline Publishing 410.465.2040 Fax: 410.465.1812 http://www.sageline.com wgm@sageline.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:58:55 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Re: Term selection Ellen Davenport wrote: ... >I guess the main question I have is, are there 'absolute' terms in an >index?..... Great question! I've been involved in several experiments comparing different indexer's choice of terms for small sections of text. One was 3-4 years ago with the DC folks where we indexed a short text section on witches, and the most recent was this Spring when the Philly chapter indexed a short section from a travel book. The results were very interesting. I would give a qualified yes to the question of "absolute" terms. For example in the travel book, every indexer would probably agree the names of the cities and/or countries mentioned are "must includes". Most also agreed the names of individual places described in each city were "should includes", i.e. Trafalgar Square in the discussion of London. However when we looked at the actual index to the book, (as I recall at least; Nancy Guenther or some other Philly folks help me out if my memory is wrong) it turned out many/most such places were not included. The book had an extraordinarily short index that for a variety of reasons we generally concluded was done by a non-pro. Now in addition some indexers also chose to start up "category of activity" type terms like Amusement parks Brighton Beach, 78 or Art museums London, 75 I chose not to do this since I figured the density of terms produced by including all the local place names, famous buildings, etc., would produce the appropriate density of total index, and secondly the overall emphasis seemed to me to be on interesting places to visit in each town and not specifically on any one activity. Now if the book was titled "Great Museums of Europe", I could see terms like Art museums, Natural history museums, etc. Remember that each of these terms you choose to use adds another element to index to: you must ensure that _every_ mention of an art museum in the whole book as well as _every_ amusement park is listed as a sub as above or the exercise is pointless: i.e., you will do the reader a disservice to assert you've listed all mentions of art museums unless you truly have. Finally there's the issue of arbitrariness: if one activity type is listed why should'nt all be, and that could get quite hairy. On the other hand as mentioned by Ann Cassar there are some travel books with an emphasis on activities, like winter sports locales. There a term like "Ski slopes" subbed out by locale would be appropriate. So I guess the point is that in this case the only "absolute terms" would be the names of the countries/cities mentioned and the rest is dependent on the emphasis of the text and the indexer's choices. For other types of books, I think a good rule of thumb is that all definitions should be in the index. Usually this amounts to most of the italicized and/or bolded terms, but not necessarily all since sometimes an author may use italics for emphasis only. Then Jean Middleton quoted Do Mi: >Some of the things that have helped me most from her (Do Mi's) workshop were the >following "rules": >(1) be careful how you index the main topic (metatopic) of the book, if >at all ;(2) if you pick up a topic, pick it up throughout the book (she >calls this "Do Mi's First Rule); (3) gather "low-hanging fruit" first >(book titles, names, and other obvious topics); and (4) in some books >text headings are not necessarily useful. Some good rules from Do Mi. Some specific comments: 1) good point. I often pick up just the first few pages of the book under the metatopic and nothing else. Otherwise you get index-within-an-index syndrome. 2) We're totally on the same wavelength here! This is the heart of my whole level-of-detail indexing approach as I've gone into several times here. Each "level" should be thought of as a distinct layer of information with an associated size. Each layer of information _must_ be covered completely or not all. The indexing strategy is arrived at by determining which levels of information can be completely covered and still remain inside the desired index size/detail. "Biting on lists" is strongly discouraged. Say for example you've determined in a book on drug design that you'll index down to the level of individual compounds, which will produce an appropriately detailed index. But let's say each compound also comes with a "list", as in "xyz compound has been found to be useful for a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h, and i diseases/conditions [a very common situation in such texts] To include this list, i.e. as "a disease, xyz compound for", "b disease, xyz compound for", etc. would vastly increase the size of the index [remember that every single such list in the whole text must be included or none at all]. Now there are some cases where you have no choice but to bite on all lists, as when you are asked to include all author references. This is a significant factor in "name index psychosis"! 4) a classic sign of an index by a newbie or author is the existence of silly subheads that turn out to coincide exactly with subchapter titles. Thus you can end up with such silly terms as Main heading a little bit of background, 16-17 FTIR comes of age, 18-20 the early years, 41-42 the golden years, 42-43 musings on the future, 45-46 On the other hand some authors pick their subchapter titles very carefully and you can pick them up as subs with little if any modification, perhaps just to put the key word forward. That's my 2 cents adjusted for inflation Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:57:14 -0500 Reply-To: editink@istar.ca Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Heather Ebbs Organization: Editor's Ink Subject: Re: "Names changed to protect the innocent..." Yes, I'd say it is appropriate to index the first-name people as you suggest (e.g., Mary [student activist]). Re entries about the author, I'd put them as subheads under the author's name, but combine some. E.g., perhaps instead of Author, at X College, I'd combine all that sort of stuff under Author, education (depending on weight, of course). With a limited-space memoir, I wouldn't include any subject entries (e.g., drug use), except as subheads (and in the latter case, to clarify, I'd use a preposition: Author, on drug use. I'd use proper nouns only for main heads. My views. Heather Ebbs ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 12:38:20 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Schroeder Subject: Keynote Speaker for the Indianapolis Conference This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE275E.A164CEE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The keynote speaker for the Indianapolis Annual meeting on June 12 will = be Joe Queenan. Mr. Queenan is the author of Red Lobster, White Trash = and the Blue Lagoon, published in 1998. Earlier books include The = Unkindest Cut (1995), If You're Talking to Me, Your Career Must be in = Trouble (1994); Imperial Caddy: The Rise of Dan Quayle in America and = the Decline and Fall of Practically Everything Else (1992).=20 Mr. Queenan's book was reviewed in the New York Times. He writes deeply = funny indexes to his own text, which are great spoofs of indexing style. A few selected entries to the above index are Farrow, Mia questionable casting as Mother Theresa volunteer, 253 Griffith, Melanie ability to turn a man's saliva into gravy, 209, 211 Hitchcock, Alfred inability to get people like grace kelly to sit in his lap, 195-206 Queenan, Joe failure to land interview with Vincent Spano, xvii Spano, Vincent having better things to do with his time than to talk with people = like Joe Queenan, xvii Streisand, Barbara large nose of, 99 Sandi Schreoder Vice president, American Society of Indexers and chair of the Indianapolis Conference ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE275E.A164CEE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The keynote speaker for the = Indianapolis Annual=20 meeting on June 12 will be Joe Queenan. Mr. Queenan is the author of = Red=20 Lobster, White Trash and the Blue Lagoon, published in 1998. = Earlier books=20 include The Unkindest Cut (1995), If You're Talking to Me, Your = Career=20 Must be in Trouble (1994); Imperial Caddy: The Rise of Dan Quayle in = America and=20 the Decline and Fall of Practically Everything Else (1992). =
 
Mr. Queenan's book was reviewed in the New York = Times.=20 He writes deeply funny indexes to his own text, which are great = spoofs of=20 indexing style.
 
A few selected entries to the above index = are
Farrow, Mia
    questionable casting as Mother = Theresa=20 volunteer, 253
 
Griffith, Melanie
    ability to turn a man's saliva = into gravy,=20 209, 211
 
Hitchcock, Alfred
    inability to get people like = grace kelly to=20 sit in his lap, 195-206
 
Queenan, Joe
    failure to land interview with = Vincent=20 Spano, xvii
 
Spano, Vincent
    having better = things to do=20 with his time than to talk with people like Joe Queenan, = xvii
 
Streisand, Barbara
    large nose of,=20 99
 
Sandi Schreoder
Vice president, American Society of=20 Indexers
and chair of the Indianapolis=20 Conference
------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE275E.A164CEE0-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 23:32:39 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: EMickiT@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Indexer Locator listing In a message dated 98-12-13 18:53:07 EST, Sonsie wrote: << I guess I'll be the first (and maybe the only) person to step up to the plate and say that as far as I know, I have never gotten a job through my listing...but I faithfully renew it each year. And I renew my ASI membership each time, as well, because I believe in the system and I want it to work. >> Ok, so I will be brave and be the second. I am traveling now and can't look in my files to see if I signed up last year, but know I did at least one year. I have gotten work through other indexers I have met (including Sonsie). These indexers may have used the Locator to find my phone number. No editor has ever called after seeing my listing in the Locator. I may not have signed up last time though, as I have been anticipating a move and didn't want to have useless listing. Micki Taylor