From LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu Sun Jan 10 23:37:12 1999 Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 23:12:59 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB To: Ilana Kingsley Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9812D" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 19:59:07 +1300 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Simon Cauchi Subject: URGENT: Indexer required Is there anyone (preferably in New Zealand or Australia) competent to relieve me an indexing project I rashly offered to undertake? The book is about plant molecular biology, and now I have seen the text I rather think it will be all utterly beyond me. The book's title is _Inducible Gene Expression in Plants_. Eleven contributors have written one chapter each, with titles such as the following (I abbreviate "Gene Expression in Plants" to "GEiP"): Ecdysteroid Agonist-inducible Control of GEiP Glucocorticoid-inducible GEiP Tissue-specific Copper-controllable GEiP Use of Heat Shock Promoters to Control GEiP Potential Use of Hormone Responsive Elements to Control GEiP (plus other titles which don't end with the phrase GEiP). The book is viii, 236 pages long, and the index needs to be done by early January. The (UK) publisher estimates indexing will take about 20 hours. The volume editor lives in Wellington. My ignorance of the subject-matter is, I think, a serious handicap, though not necessarily an insuperable obstacle. Please communicate with me privately if you can offer to take over the work. Simon Cauchi 13 Riverview Terrace, Hamilton, New Zealand Telephone and facsimile +647 854 9229 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 01:14:33 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: See more specific topics (was: psychology of indexing) I have to respectfully disagree. "See more specific topics" is also a pet peeve of mine. I hate seeing this entry in indexes. This kind of entry always strikes me as taking the easy way out while doing a disservice to the index user. Though the kind of example Carol refers to is one which often comes up there are many more elegant ways to handle it than using "See more specific topics." Unfortunately, as I frantically try to get ready for the holidays while keeping my deadlines, I don't have the time to go into the alternatives here. However, I'd be most surprised if alternative solutions weren't discussed in some of the fine indexing references often cited on this list. And, on a personal note, may I be condemned to an everlasting eternity without books if I ever use it in an index of mine! By the way, Happy Holidays to everyone on the list! Best, Sylvia Coates Carol Roberts wrote: > >3) See more specific topics throughout this index. This is a pet peeve of > >mine. I don't think that this should EVER be used as an entry because all > >it says to the index user is, "Think harder." If that's all that's going to > >be there, just don't put in an entry! I agree that the index you're looking > >at sounds frustrating to use, which means that it is obviously not a very > >good index. > > I can think of situations in which this could useful/appropriate. What if > you have a very general discussion of Europe (so you'll want an entry for > Europe), but you also have discussions of all the countries in Europe. I > would opt for "See also specific countries," rather than listing them all. > In some situations, unlike the one Rachel described, one can assume that > the intended audience won't have to think that hard to figure out the other > entries (at least the ones they're interested in). Obviously, you wouldn't > do it that way for a grade-school textbook. > > Cheers, > > Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My > Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. > Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer > http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 02:12:37 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Denna Sadler Subject: Thanks Thanks to everybody who sent a reply to my plea for information. It was very helpful and I shall be following up on all the leads you sent me. Denna ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 07:53:20 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pamela Venneman Subject: Indexer Locator Good Morning Everyone, As a beginner indexer, I am at a loss to know how to compose a personal statement for the new edition of the Indexer Locator. I have not seen one before and as a beginner I don't have a lot to *say*. If it isn't too much trouble could anyone e-mail me privately with some ideas on what kind of information people have put in past editions, and in what format (complete sentences, brief bulleted lines, etc.) Hope this makes sense! Pamela Venneman psvenndex@aol.com Lighthouse Indexing Services ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 08:04:39 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Iris B. Ailin-Pyzik" Subject: Re: Indexer Locator Actually, is there anyone who could post, perhaps, what they put in the last one? Iris Ailin-Pyzik ibap@crystalsys.com Psvenndex@aol.com wrote: > Good Morning Everyone, > As a beginner indexer, I am at a loss to know how to compose a personal > statement for the new edition of the Indexer Locator. I have not seen one > before and as a beginner I don't have a lot to *say*. If it isn't too much > trouble could anyone e-mail me privately with some ideas on what kind of > information people have put in past editions, and in what format (complete > sentences, brief bulleted lines, etc.) > Hope this makes sense! > Pamela Venneman > psvenndex@aol.com > Lighthouse Indexing Services ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 10:21:53 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Name request Any help with alphabetization of the name Un Yong Kim would be appreciated. TIA and happy holidays to all! Craig Brown ===================================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing http://www/i1.net/~lastword (314)352-9094 fax: (314)481-9254 ===================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 09:40:26 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Miller, David G (Dave)" Subject: Re: Name request > ---------- > From: Craig Brown[SMTP:lastword@I1.NET] > Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 9:21 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Name request > > Any help with alphabetization of the name Un Yong Kim would be > appreciated. > > Craig Brown =============================================== Gi Kmnn Ouy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:54:34 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Nancy A. Guenther" Subject: Re: Indexer Locator In-Reply-To: <199812221255.HAA24096@carriage.chesco.com> Hi Pamela, Although you requested private response I noticed another request for the same info, so here is my attempt at a summary. In skimming a previous year's copy, I find variety in the format of entries -- some use full sentence structure, most are simply using phrases. I know from my own perspective the limit on size can be quickly reached so carefully worded phrases make better use of the available space. Many indicate years of experience, either specifically indexing or related fields (e.g. library background; editing, etc.) Consistently individuals list subject specialties and qualifications which relate to their specialities. Some list special degrees. Many also list the type of output they provide: floppy disk; camera-ready copy; modem delivery as well as file format options. Nancy Guenther nanguent@chesco.com At 07:53 AM 12/22/98 -0500, you wrote: >Good Morning Everyone, >As a beginner indexer, I am at a loss to know how to compose a personal >statement for the new edition of the Indexer Locator. I have not seen one >before and as a beginner I don't have a lot to *say*. If it isn't too much >trouble could anyone e-mail me privately with some ideas on what kind of >information people have put in past editions, and in what format (complete >sentences, brief bulleted lines, etc.) >Hope this makes sense! >Pamela Venneman >psvenndex@aol.com >Lighthouse Indexing Services ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 14:10:32 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jennifer Cloutier I have tried several times to signoff/unsubscribe to INDEX-L with no luck. Could someone give me to address to write to in order to signoff and the correct protocol also. Much thanks. Jenn ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:35:40 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: Name request On 12/22/1998 10:40 AM Miller, David G (Dave) wrote (in part): >> Any help with alphabetization of the name Un Yong Kim would be >> appreciated. >> >> Craig Brown > =============================================== > > Gi Kmnn Ouy You clearly failed the test. The G and i are OK, since their values in ASCII are 71 and 105 respectively. The capital K, however, has an ASCII value of 75, which throws off the sequence. Nice try, Miller David G (Dave), but that's not what I had in mind. Craig ===================================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing http://www/i1.net/~lastword (314)352-9094 fax: (314)481-9254 ===================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 11:35:24 -0800 Reply-To: jeanmidd@prodigy.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jean Middleton Subject: Re: Indexer Locator Thank you for replying online to question about content and format for Indexer Locator. I, too, was concerned since I had no copy to use as a guide. We newcomers really appreciate the help all of you give us. Jean Middleton jeanmidd@prodigy.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 12:04:39 PST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kathryn Sheingold Subject: Setting prices Hi, I'm new here, preparing for my first indexing job. I've been asked to come up with the price I would charge for three already-published items, and I'm not sure how to decide. I thought that a price per page of text would be the easiest for someone with no experience estimating how long a project will take, but I don't want to sell myself short. Similarly, I don't know how much to charge per page. I haven't indexed before, but I have an advanced degree in the subject area and also an MLS, so I have some familiarity both with the subject and with the organization of information. Any suggestions for determining how much I should charge would be appreciated. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 15:42:29 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John_Sullivan@STRATUS.COM Subject: For moderator only! Else delete Could whoever it is that's currently moderating the list please email me? I have a question about changing my index-l subscription to a different address. Thanks. John Sullivan John_Sullivan@stratus.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 16:08:50 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Fred Brown Subject: Quotes on the value of indexing I'm drafting an article about the importance of an index for meeting = basic communication and business objectives. The article is aimed = largely at managers in government, business and high-technology -- not = all indexing enthusiasts. Some quotes about the critical value that indexes play might help catch = the audience's attention. For example, I believe an English king, or = someone of similar rank, once remarked that all bills of parliament = should have an index. Thanks for your assistance. Fred Brown * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Fred Brown McCrae Consulting Associates "effective business and technical documentation" Email: fredb@cyberus.ca Web: http://www.cyberus.ca/~fredb Phone: 613-728-5761 Fax: 613-728-9373 Ottawa, Ontario, Canada * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 16:15:07 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Iris B. Ailin-Pyzik" Subject: Re: Quotes on the value of indexing If you haven't already looked there, the page on the ASI site on the history of information retrieval http://www.asindexing.org/history.htm and the sources it cites, may be some help. Iris Ailin-Pyzik ibap@crystalsys.com Fred Brown wrote: > I'm drafting an article about the importance of an index for meeting basic communication and business objectives. The article is aimed largely at managers in government, business and high-technology -- not all indexing enthusiasts. > > Some quotes about the critical value that indexes play might help catch the audience's attention. For example, I believe an English king, or someone of similar rank, once remarked that all bills of parliament should have an index. > > Thanks for your assistance. > > Fred Brown > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > Fred Brown > McCrae Consulting Associates > "effective business and technical documentation" > Email: fredb@cyberus.ca > Web: http://www.cyberus.ca/~fredb > Phone: 613-728-5761 Fax: 613-728-9373 > Ottawa, Ontario, Canada > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:23:52 -0800 Reply-To: nkoenig@sprynet.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Nicholas W. Koenig" Subject: Re: Cambodian names Anyone out there have expertise with Cambodian names? I have done some preliminary research on this and it appears that these names are usually entered without inversion, with a see reference from the inverted form: e.g., Dith Pran, Pol Pot. The only exception I have found so far is Norodom Sihanouk, which seems to be entered inverted. I have yet to find a general discussion of Cambodian names, however. Thai, Chinese, Burmese, Vietnamese, yes. Cambodian no. Thanks in advance. Nick Koenig ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 16:23:03 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Iris B. Ailin-Pyzik" Subject: Re: Quotes on the value of indexing Just for chuckles - how a small change in a phrase changes the meaning.... Found the following on amazon.com when searching for books by Wellisch. Iris Ailin-Pyzik ibap@crystalsys.com Indexing : A Basic Reading List Hans H. Wellisch / Paperback / Published 1992 Indexing a Basic Reading List Hans H. Wellisch / Paperback / Published 1987 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 09:06:10 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Heather Adams Subject: Setting costs Hi, I'm new to this list. The company I work for is interested in outsourcing some indexing/abstracting work. I have searched on the Internet and found on the Australian Society of Indexers web pages a recommended minimum hourly rate of pay for freelance indexers. My question is how much piece-work is reasonable to expect for an hours pay? How should the set amount be worked out so that it is reasonable both for the indexer and for the company? Any suggestions or sources of information for determining costs would be appreciated. Heather ################################################# Heather Adams Project Librarian National Centre for Vocational Education Research 252 Kensington Road Leabrook SA 5068 AUSTRALIA email: heather@ncver.edu.au ph: +618 8333 8493 fax: +618 8331 9211 ################################################## ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 07:09:12 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: See more specific topics (was: psychology of indexing) In-Reply-To: <367EF279.3D7460B5@slip.net> Once I had to use "See under something or other by name" due to space considerations, and after discussion with an editor decided that the readers were knowledgeable enough for that book that they would know the names of the regions involved. There wasn't enough room to make subentries under the main topic Regions (or whatever it was) and also to list them as main entries. I wanted to just make a main entry for regions and not list them individually, but she overrode me. I guess that's OK for a sophisticated enough audience, but if it had been a book for people new to the topic I would have lobbied to go the other way. There's always some kind of "but . . ." no matter what I seem to read or hear as the "correct" or "better" way to do something. Rae Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 23:09:44 -0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Headley Subject: Siteblazer.com From Christine Headley Does anyone have experience of this website? It was recommended by an unfamiliar name on another list I'm on, and I am wary about using it in case it introduces unimaginable disasters. >Build your own Web Site in less than 15 min. in 9 easy steps! Visit >http://www.siteblazer.com and simply enter your info and watch your site build >before your eyes. http://www.siteblazer.com > anybody can do it! Your Web Site will be updateable and requires no >programming skills. Is it too good to be true? I've had a look at the home page and it seems perfectly reasonable, but ... I apologise for a tangential post, but I would of course publicise indexing on my so-far- mythical website, and you are my oldest virtual friends! Happy Christmas if appropriate, and best wishes to all for a fruitful 1999! Christine Stroud, Glos ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 13:45:07 +1300 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Simon Cauchi Subject: Re: URGENT: Indexer required Many thanks to everyone who offered to help me out with this. Max McMaster in Australia has agreed to take on the work. He has a science background, has had previous experience of indexing books in the field of plant molecular biology, and is able to meet the deadline. Simon Cauchi 13 Riverview Terrace, Hamilton, New Zealand Telephone and facsimile +647 854 9229 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 20:28:59 -0500 Reply-To: thelmalee@sprynet.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Thelma Meyer Subject: Newspaper index software I am trying to help a local newspaper "Haiti Progres" find software to Index copies of their paper from 20 years ago. The paper is on disks which are not compatible with windows. -- They also have paper copies of the newspaper. (I am a volunteer at this very low budget paper. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks for any help. Thelma Lee thelmalee@sprynet.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 18:37:55 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Newspaper index software At 08:28 PM 12/22/1998 -0500, Thelma Meyer wrote: >I am trying to help a local newspaper "Haiti Progres" find software to Index >copies of their paper from 20 years ago. The paper is on disks which are not >compatible with windows. -- They also have paper copies of the newspaper. (I am >a volunteer at this very low budget paper. Does anyone have any suggestions? >Thanks for any help. Thelma, since indexing normally is not done by using the original disks that hold the material, whether or not they are compatible with Windows really isn't an issue. However, what IS an issue is whether or not the indexer's computer uses Windows or DOS, and what version. Cindex comes in both DOS and Windows versions; Macrex is DOS but I understand that a Windows edition will be forthcoming. SkyIndex is a Windows program, and you can get the "standard" version for about $100. The "pro" version is priced about the same as the other two (which is to say, around $400). I have used all of these programs, and find them all extremely useful. Others can give you specific details about Cindex and SkyIndex; I'm most proficient with Macrex. If the indexer has a computer with Windows 95 or 98, I'd recommend SkyIndex (standard version) as the "budget alternative." It should handle the job easily. Others may be able to direct you to other software as well. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 22:35:04 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PDepri5514@AOL.COM Subject: Getting work for a startup index biz Hey! I was wondering about the following: If your an indexer and are interested in freelance indexing; what are the alternatives for the indexer? (1) Is he better off looking for an indexing job, and get some experience first, OR (2) (a)to index a book or two, that the indexer is reading anyway, and then use the indexes as examples of the work the indexer can do? and (b) just get started as a freelancer that way, doing 2 (a) only? Happy Holidays ! Patrick ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 22:39:22 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nell Benton Subject: Re: Getting work for a startup index biz In a message dated 12/22/98 10:37:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, PDepri5514@AOL.COM writes: << If your an indexer >> The first step is to learn proper English. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 22:50:36 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barry Rofman Organization: @Home Network Subject: Re: Getting work for a startup index biz And the next step is to apply it diplomatically. Nell Benton wrote: > > In a message dated 12/22/98 10:37:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, > PDepri5514@AOL.COM writes: > > << If your an indexer >> > The first step is to learn proper English. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 23:41:05 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" Subject: Re: Radio vs. coffee I can't listen to the radio when I'm indexing because, being a musician as well, part of my mind starts getting into the music too much. So I usually consume "scary amounts of coffee" (I like that phrase). Recently I decided to quit drinking coffee altogether.... I think I'm on day 6. I am VERY proud of myself because two nights ago I pulled my very first all-nighter with absolutely NO caffeine! I don't really know how I did it! I did try to listen to some baroque music at about 4:30 a.m. but had to give it up when I found myself staring off into space and conducting instead of editing my printout. If I had been listening to alternative, I'd probably have been dancing around the room. I made it all the way to 6:30, then took a nap for two hours and came back to do the final edit. I finished with HOURS to spare! Paula dwindex@louisa.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 00:39:07 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Getting work for a startup index biz In-Reply-To: <199812222236.r80p96.fol.37kbi16@mx8.mindspring.com> At 10:35 PM 12/22/98 -0500, you wrote: >Hey! > >I was wondering about the following: >If your an indexer and are interested in freelance indexing; what are the >alternatives for the indexer? >(1) Is he better off looking for an indexing job, and get some experience >first, I retired from corporate life in 1992 and wanted to start an indexing business. Instead of starting right off as an indexer, I sought contract work as a technical writer, a job for which I had credentials. In each shop I worked in, I made myself the indexing guru: offerering to help other writers with their indexes, preparing reviews, offering suggestions. In six months time I had a reputation as the guy to go to for indexing. Not longer after, one of the people I worked with attended a conference of editors and was aksed if she know anyone who did freelance indexing. My name was passed along, and I got my first freelance indexing client. I got my second client when the local paper published an item about a nearby publisher who was publishing a series of books about the Internet. I called the editor of that publication and soon had work from them. I guess the net of this is: If you can't immediately start in indexing, start in something close and build your expertise and recognition under some other banner. If you are a qualified tech writer, take the job as writer and hone your indexing skills on the side. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 00:07:18 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: See more specific topics (was: psychology of indexing) In-Reply-To: <199812230503.XAA29014@mixcom.mixcom.com> >Though >the kind of example Carol refers to is one which often comes up there are many >more elegant ways to handle it than using "See more specific topics." I'd really like to know what the alternatives are, short of listing however many countries there are in Europe. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 01:05:19 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: See more specific topics (was: psychology of indexing) Dear Carol, You could consolidate the European countries by category. For example, under "Europe" have a sub entry for "Scandinavian countries" and/or "Eastern European countries" and list the appropriate page ranges. You would also have to list them as main entries and then also under "Eastern European countries" etc. Or, if there are way too many page references for a sub entry (say more than 8 individual or groups of page references), cross reference from "Europe" to (for example) "Eastern European countries" etc. and under those entries list the appropriate countries and page references. You would also have separate listings for each country which would in turn have a cross reference to "Europe" as well as to the appropriate category (i.e. Eastern European countries). And, depending on the way the text was written, it might be so obvious that the index contains every European country (say if each chapter were devoted to one single country) you shouldn't even have to include a cross reference to each and every country from "Europe." Though you would always cross reference from each country over to "Europe." Also, if there were only a few references to specific countries it would be easy to list them as sub entries (under "Europe") with the appropriate page references as well as listing them as main entries. You could save the cross references for only those countries which are discussed at great length. Each situation (depending upon the text content, space constraints etc.) would call upon a slightly different solution. But the point is, there is always a solution to avoiding "See more specific topics." It requires more creative thinking and (unfortunately) usually more work but there is always a solution. I must confess, when pressed for time, or feeling tired, I've actually longed to use "See more specific topics" myself, so I know how tempting it can be. But I'd rather make the extra effort and produce an index I feel really good about. This is, after all, why indexers are better than computers, we are capable of creative solutions. This entire subject is, obviously, one of individual choice, but it's my choice to make the extra effort required to avoid using "See more specific topics." Best, Sylvia Coates -- who is feeling less frantic now that I've done all my shopping and wrapping :) Carol Roberts wrote: > >Though > >the kind of example Carol refers to is one which often comes up there are many > >more elegant ways to handle it than using "See more specific topics." > > I'd really like to know what the alternatives are, short of listing however > many countries there are in Europe. > > Cheers, > > Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My > Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. > Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer > http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 00:38:09 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: See more specific topics (was: psychology of indexing) In-Reply-To: <199812230606.WAA26133@pacific.net> Carol quoted and responded: >>Though >>the kind of example Carol refers to is one which often comes up there are many >>more elegant ways to handle it than using "See more specific topics." > >I'd really like to know what the alternatives are, short of listing however >many countries there are in Europe. I too would like to know. Often, the entry that such a "general cross-reference" (which is the technical name for this construct) is attached to actually contains the information, but I am also breaking out the information in more focused, specific locations as well. The general cross-reference can serve to alert the reader that more particularized entries are present. So that I might have an main entry for dogs that contains the information about dogs, but with a general cross-reference "see also specific breeds" for those who want to know only about a particular kind of dog, or who want to know what this book says about a specific kind of dog, or whether the text discusses that type of dog. IMO, where general cross-references become problematic is when the information is not anywhere otherwise collected and the reader therefore has no other access except to think of the various possible specific instances. I do try to avoid that, but then, I like to cover the material at least twice in my indexes if I can. I am also very particular about how I use ^see^ and ^see also^ references, careful to maintain the hierarchy that they imply. I think a general cross-reference is one tool among many, appropriate when used well. Best, Victoria ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:43:52 -0000 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Re: See more specific topics (was: psychology of indexing) In-Reply-To: I would have thought the purpose of 'see also specific' or 'see also named' was to save space and clutter. A long list of 'see also' cross-references from one heading seems the most obvious alternative, but in some cases it might be teaching Granny to suck eggs - insulting the reader. More general classification may reduce the clutter, but the method chosen may be alien to the author's intentions. 'See specific' gives notice that not all the references to instances under the generic subject are under the heading in question. No doubt one must always consider alternatives, but I am rather surprised at the view that one must *never* use 'see also specific'. Regards _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:43:52 -0000 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Re: Siteblazer.com In-Reply-To: > >Build your own Web Site in less than 15 min. in 9 easy steps! Visit > >http://www.siteblazer.com and simply enter your info and watch your site > build > >before your eyes. http://www.siteblazer.com > > anybody can do it! Your Web Site will be updateable and requires no > >programming skills. I can't imagine anyone cobbling up a Web site in 15 minutes. I wonder if anyone who thinks one can knows anything about Web sites. By the way, was this ad a spam? Personally I wouldn't do business with a spammer under any circumstances. Regards _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 06:36:03 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: See more specific topics (was: psychology of indexing) In-Reply-To: <199812230613.WAA09825@decibel.electriciti.com> For the situation below, I am more specific--certainly not what I would term more elegant. I employ: See also individual countries >>Though >>the kind of example Carol refers to is one which often comes up there are many >>more elegant ways to handle it than using "See more specific topics." > >I'd really like to know what the alternatives are, short of listing however >many countries there are in Europe. > >Cheers, > Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:13:03 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Robin Hilp Subject: Re: psychology of indexing Richard Evans wrote: >Then there is the problem with many computer books >were terms are case sensitive, begin with a lower >case letter, and take on another meaning when >shown with initial caps. I started indexing with computer books in an environment where case distinctions were critical, and did exclusively that sort of indexing for about 10 years. In some books upper/lower case was part of the correct spelling of various keywords. In others, an initial cap indicated a menu name or other "proper" name of a screen element. Making initial letters caps on all entries seems kinda unnatural to me. It's about the last thing I do, in such an index. It's also my most difficult part of proofreading, making sure everything is "cased" correctly when the initial cap isn't used to convey a special meaning. == RolyBear ICQ 1863181 (Robin Hilp) _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 14:02:19 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Name request << Any help with alphabetization of the name Un Yong Kim would be appreciated. >> Hi Craig--this sounds Korean, which means that Kim is almost certainly the last name. You still have to decide whether to Westernize it (Kim, Un Yong vs. Kim Un Yong). Hope this helps! Happy holidays! Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 14:47:03 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mschwilk@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Getting work for a startup index biz Hey Patrick, If you happen to live in an area where in-house indexing positions are available, that is an excellent way to start. I held in-house positions at two different publishing houses, before striking out on my own. Aside from helping me in honing my indexing skills (which I originally learned, on kind of a hit-or-miss basis, in grad school), it also was a great value to learn the workings of the publishing world. Moonlighting is also a great way to expand your client base while waiting to make the big leap into freelancing! Welcome to the list, Patrick! You'll find most of the people on the list ready to offer helpful advise and support. Unfortunately, every now and again, you'll run into the occasional smart a#%! Merry Christmas everyone, and Happy New Year! Mike ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 16:46:47 -0500 Reply-To: julie means Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: julie means Subject: software This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE2E93.D4929900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable i have been indexing using microsoft word for an aged macintosh since = 1991. i recently bought a pc and am looking for dedicated indexing = software. trying to decide between cindex for windows or sky software's = index professional. any words of wisdom will be greatly appreciated! = thanks, julie ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE2E93.D4929900 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
i have been indexing using microsoft = word for an=20 aged macintosh since 1991.  i recently bought a pc and am looking = for=20 dedicated indexing software.  trying to decide between cindex for = windows=20 or sky software's index professional.  any words of wisdom will be = greatly=20 appreciated! thanks, julie
------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE2E93.D4929900-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 17:34:53 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: INFO: Credit Cards on the 'NET This is from Dr. Joe Burns's HTML Goodies Newsletter; I thought it sufficiently informative to send to *everyone*. To keep the space down I've removed all the header and footer information, along with copyrights. At least I kept the author's name. Sorry about that. *********************************************************************** In an effort to help the Internet marketplace, and to possibly quell some fears, I'd like to offer some tips to buying online. In addition, I would like to explain the level of protection companies have gone to in order to make your purchase over the Internet a safe, and private, transaction. When you go out into the World Wide Web with the intent to purchase a product, keep an eye on the little padlock image on your browser. It's in one of the lower corners of the screen. That little padlock image will let you know if you're in a "secure" area or not. If the padlock appears open, you're not. If the padlock is closed, you are. When making a purchase over the Web, you'll want to make sure that you are entering your credit card number to the screen while you are inside a secure area. Here's what usually happens. You'll log into a merchant's site searching for a gift. Usually the site will allow you to search for items by name or sometimes by price range. This is where I feel Internet shopping has all other types of shopping beat: you sit quietly while something else does the searching. Once you've found the item you're looking for, you can either buy it or add it to what's known as your "shopping cart." A shopping cart is a special program that "remembers" what you ordered by writing the items to a cookie file somewhere on your own computer. That way your orders are contained safely on your own system, not on the server. Once you've chosen your item(s) you are usually asked to click on a button to complete your purchase. Clicking on that button should now move you into a "secure" area of the server (that little padlock should close). If you cannot locate a padlock on your browser, look at the address of the page. The first five letters should now read "https." The "S" means secure. The technical name for the secure area is Secure Socket Layer (SSL). There are many different kinds, but this is the most popular. It is a section of the server set aside specifically to make monitary transactions. This layer is a closed system connected only to those parties involved in the sale. Any movement of data between these parties is encrypted as part of your "digital signature," the computer equivalent to you "signing" something to complete the transaction. It gets a little hairy, but here's the basic idea. You click to submit the sale. Your information is turned into a hash, or intricate mathematical system equal to your information. That hash is then encrypted with what's known as a "key" that differs from merchant to merchant. When the encrypted information arrives at the merchant, it must go back through the same two steps (hashing and encryption) to be converted to the original text format. If the information de-encrypts correctly, then the merchant can be quite sure it was a true transaction made from their Web site. They consider the sale "signed." So how can you be sure that the site you've just entered is really the merchant's site? What if someone set up a fake version to grab credit card numbers? It happens. First look at the address. Check it against the merchant's advertising material. Is the address on the computer screen the same? Then look for the verification certificate. On the secure page, where you put in your credit card number, there should be an icon from a third-party company that will verify you're truly in the merchant's site. Click on the icon and you should get back verification. If you don't, do not put in your card number. Finally, watch especially for sites that ask you to send your credit card numbers over email. Email is definitely not secure and can be gathered easily. I actually feel safer making a purchase over a secure Internet server than I do giving my number over the phone to a catalogue order taker. And I especially feel safer than when the waiter takes my card out behind the kitchen to swipe it. Goodness knows how many people could have seen it! The technical name for doing business over the Internet is electronic commerce. More appropriately, it's called E-commerce. So this year, humbug to the mall. Boot up, log on, and have a Happ-E Chanukah, a Merr-E Christmas, and an interactive New Year. [From Joe Burns: HTML Goodies Newsletter] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 14:43:46 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: See more specific topics (was: psychology of indexing) In-Reply-To: <199812230752.XAA06859@mail-gw.pacbell.net> At 01:05 12/23/98 +0000, Sylvia wrote: >You could consolidate the European countries by category. For example, under >"Europe" have a sub entry for "Scandinavian countries" and/or "Eastern European >countries" and list the appropriate page ranges. Hi Sylvia, This assumes that the book is neatly organized where Scandinavian countries are grouped within a certain page range, Eastern European countries with another page range, etc. This whole arrangement falls apart if the countries are discussed in alphabetical order, for example. Another potential problem is that this method is a form of classification that could lead to a huge subentry list spanning columns if there are many items that can be categorized under the main heading. This may not be true for the heading "Europe", but I definitely wouldn't do it in a programming manual under the heading "commands". You would also have to list > them >as main entries and then also under "Eastern European countries" etc. Agreed. Or, if > there >are way too many page references for a sub entry (say more than 8 individual >or groups of page references), cross reference from "Europe" to (for example) >"Eastern European countries" etc. and under those entries list the appropriate >countries and page references. Another potential problem is that some readers, including yours truly, may not know whether Albania, for example, is considered an Eastern European country or a Mediterranean country. It really depends on the sophistication of the book's audience whether you can get away with this. You would also have separate listings for each >country which would in turn have a cross reference to "Europe" as well as to the >appropriate category (i.e. Eastern European countries). See also references usually go from the general to the specific, not vice versa. IMHO, this is not a case for reciprocal cross references because we're not dealing with equal levels of specificity (where you *should* have reciprocracy) here. And, depending on the >way the text was written, it might be so obvious that the index contains every >European country (say if each chapter were devoted to one single country) >you shouldn't even have to include a cross reference to each and every >country from "Europe." I agree. General cross references are not necessary when it's obvious that there are entries for specific items. However, this is not always obvious. Though you would always cross reference from each >country over to "Europe." To elaborate on what I said above about going from the specific to the general, I'll quote Hans Wellisch on this: "mammals, 81, 85, 105 "see also names of individual mammals "This may be done when the text refers to mammals in general but deals also with a large number of different mammals, each of which has a separate index entry. In this case it is normally not necessary to make a reciprocal see also reference to 'mammals' from every mammal between aardvarks (beloved by crossword puzzle fans) and zebras, because users may be expected to know that these animals are mammals, and the latter are only dealt with briefly in the text." (Wellisch, Indexing from A to Z, second edition, H. W. Wilson, 1995, p. 127) To use the example of Europe, if the entire book is about Europe, I think it is safe to assume that the reader won't need a cross reference pointing him to an entry for Europe (which hopefully isn't an index within an index itself). >But the point is, there is always > a >solution to avoiding "See more specific topics." I don't agree, but I've already discussed this in an earlier post. Also, Victoria and others made the same point far more elegantly than I did. ;-D Lynn *********************************** Lynn Moncrief (techndex@pacbell.net) The purpose of life is to matter - to count, to stand for something, to have it make some difference that we lived at all. - Leo Rosten *********************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 17:45:29 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: See more specific topics (was: psychology of indexing) Though I appreciate your comments we'll have to agree to disagree. A discussion using this kind of hypothetical subject is always difficult because it all depends upon a text content which doesn't really exist. So the examples used are grossly inadequate to make any viable points. Let me only state why I still don't agree that using "See more specific topics" is a good idea. When I see this in a index I receive one of two messages: 1. Try to guess which specific topics might be in the index. Or, as someone stated in an earlier post "think harder." 2. Or: There are other specific topics in the index which are so obvious they don't need to be listed individually under this "See also" entry. If they are so obvious then they probably don't need to be listed at all. Again, my experience (well over 700 indexing projects at this point) has proved to me that there are other solutions available. That said, we are all free to use or not use this device in an index as per our personal preference. Variety makes the world go round! Best, Sylvia Coates Lynn Moncrief wrote: > >But the point is, there is always > > a > >solution to avoiding "See more specific topics." > > I don't agree, but I've already discussed this in an earlier post. Also, > Victoria and others made the same point far more elegantly than I did. ;-D > > Lynn > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 22:52:22 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PDepri5514@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Getting work for a startup index biz In a message dated 12/22/98 10:42:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, Nmbenton@AOL.COM writes: << << If your an indexer >> The first step is to learn proper English. >> You don't miss anything, do you? :-) Patrick. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 22:59:33 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PDepri5514@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Getting work for a startup index biz In a message dated 12/23/98 2:51:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, Mschwilk@AOL.COM writes: << If you happen to live in an area where in-house indexing positions are available, that is an excellent way to start. I held in-house positions at two different publishing houses >> Hi Mike; What do you mean by "in-house position"? Publishers who have indexers on staff? :-) Happy Holidays. Patrick ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:10:39 +1100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Subject: Re: Question re: glossaries In-Reply-To: <05071542132048@domain5.bigpond.com> Debra Lindblom asked: > > Hi everyone; hope you can help with this question -- > > I am indexing a book with an eight-page glossary (about 60 terms). > Should I index each term in the glossary? .... > Wellisch (Indexing from A to Z) says: The presence of a glossary should be > indexed, and the terms defined in it (which will almost > inevitably be employed > in the text and thus have index entries) should also be indexed, > preferably by > a subheading "defined." If I am using a book and want JUST a definition of a term I look directly for a glossary. Failing that, I would look at the index to see if the term has been defined in the text. So I personally would not see the need to index the glossary, and in fact I find it frustrating if I am expecting information to find solely a definition (out of context too). However, it never hurts to consult the editor. Wellisch also includes in the index names of people in the bibliography. Thus looking up Svenonius takes you to a citation in the bibliography for an article BY Sveononius, but provides no information on the subject. I find this frustrating and would also not do it. (This is different to the index leading you to the place in the text where Svenonius' work is discussed). Glenda. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 01:11:30 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: See more specific topics (was: psychology of indexing) Victoria wrote: << I think a general cross-reference is one tool among many, appropriate when used well. >> I agree with Victoria. I do use this tool when there are too many specific headings to list in the cross reference, and the reader may be expected to know what they are. I don't see any problem with this. In the index that started this discussion, it was obviously inappropriate without some collecting of the recipe names. But I don't agree that it's always inappropriate. Do Mi Stauber ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 02:33:21 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Nancy A. Guenther" Subject: Addition to ASI Phila group's web site In-Reply-To: <199812151815.NAA11006@carriage.chesco.com> For almost a month, I've been experimenting with a web page which will index (what else) the web documents I've found that deal with the subject of indexing. I've uploaded the rough draft and would value comments and suggestions. Please remember I said it was rough, not that I know when there is likely to be time to refine it. I included the primary organization sites (ASI, SI, AuSI) but did not provide any further analysis of those sites. My rationale -- I'd likely have it still sitting in 6 months while everything else needed revision & the assumption that those sites have their own easily located access points. The link is located on the Phila ASI web page: http://www.bcity.com/phila_asi & should be directly accessible by using http://www.bcity.com/phila_asi/frameindx.html Nancy Guenther nanguent@chesco.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 18:33:29 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Wyatt Subject: Software julie means says:: i have been indexing using microsoft word for an aged macintosh since = 1991. i recently bought a pc and am looking for dedicated indexing = software. trying to decide between cindex for windows or sky software's = index professional. any words of wisdom will be greatly appreciated! = thanks, julie I have written a comparative review of these two packages which you can find at http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi/software/review.htm Michael Wyatt Keyword Editorial Services 22 Kendall Street, Surry Hills 2010 Phone 0500 539 973 Fax (02) 9331 7785 keyword@ozemail.com.au ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 10:34:17 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Addition to ASI Phila group's web site Nancy, This is a wonderful site! Thanks to you for pulling all of this information into one place. There were a lot of sites and papers included that I was unaware of ..... making it all the more valuable. I hope you've registered it, so that it comes up when people do a search on "indexing". It doesn't look rough to me! ;-) Thanks! Take a look, all! Janet ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 11:47:29 -0500 Reply-To: julie means Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: julie means Subject: Re: Software michael, thanks so much; this is exactly the kind of information i've been looking for. i just printed it out and am looking forward to reading it. thanks again! julie >I have written a comparative review of these two packages which you can find >at http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi/software/review.htm > >Michael Wyatt >Keyword Editorial Services >22 Kendall Street, Surry Hills 2010 >Phone 0500 539 973 Fax (02) 9331 7785 >keyword@ozemail.com.au > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 12:49:13 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: See more specific topics (was: psychology of indexing) In-Reply-To: <199812240503.XAA14911@mixcom.mixcom.com> I'll use the example Lynn quotes from Wellisch, because it's better than my Europe example: "mammals, 81, 85, 105 "see also names of individual mammals Sylvia, in your response, you are fixing the problem by inventing a book that lends itself to your techniques, that is, suggesting problems that are easily solved. I am imagining precisely the case in which the information about each mammal is abundant and scattered throughout the book--not a chapter devoted to each--such that a cross-reference to them from "mammal" would be warranted (rather than making them subentries). Unless you go down to sub-subentries, which my clients usually don't allow, if you have enough info about specific mammals, further categorizing them still leaves you with subs that have too many locators or too large a page range. And can also yield the heirarchy problem Lynn brought up, in which the user has to know what category of mammal each species falls under. And having cross-refs from specific mammals to "mammals" doesn't at all address the issue. The point is to let the user who has found the entry "mammals" know that this entry is for general info on mammals, but that there's lots more info about mammals to be found under names of individual mammals. >But I'd >rather make the extra effort and produce an index I feel really good about. Guess what. I too produce indexes that I (and my clients) feel really good about, *even though* my approach to this problem is different from yours. I'm not simply giving in to a temptation to take the easy way out, as you seem to think I'm doing; I'm making a thoughtful choice about what I think will most help readers, based on what I think they already know (about mammal species, in this case). Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 07:47:29 +1100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Subject: Re: See more specific topics I have used (and will continue to use) general see also references. To me they are a bit like a note in the introduction, and give general advice about the structure of the index. A reference such as "Cancer, see also names of specific cancers" is a neat reminder to the user that there is more specific information elsewhere. It takes little space, and might be useful. A list of ten or so specific cancers will clutter the index, and perhaps make the general cancer information a bit harder to find (because it will be a few lines further down from the entry). Many years ago I used this reference "Cancer, see also names of specific cancers" and received the complaint from the author that there was nothing under the entry "names of specific cancers" (under N). Since advice from the list I have always added an example to make the purpose of the reference clearer, e.g. "Cancer, see also names of specific cancers, e.g. lung cancer". Glenda ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 17:57:51 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: Siteblazer.com Christine, The Nov.-Dec. 1998 "Modern Maturity" (AARP publication) gives the following 2 sites for quick ways to create a web page. "...several online form templates are available. Look for such Web sites as 'Joe's Amazing Instant Home Page Form' (www.joes.com/home/ihp1.html) or 'Make Your Own Home Page' (snafu.mit.edu/makepage.html). The services prompt you for headline and text information and then create your page right there for you. And what's more, they're free." You did not say if there is a charge for Siteblazer.com. Ann > From Christine Headley > > Does anyone have experience of this website? It was recommended by an > unfamiliar name on another list I'm on, and I am wary about using it in case > it introduces unimaginable disasters. > > >Build your own Web Site in less than 15 min. in 9 easy steps! Visit > >http://www.siteblazer.com and simply enter your info and watch your site > build > >before your eyes. http://www.siteblazer.com > > anybody can do it! Your Web Site will be updateable and requires no > >programming skills. > Ann Truesdale (anntrue@aol.com) TrueWords Freelance Services Yonges Island, SC ************************************************************** If quitters never win, and winners never quit, what fool came up with, "Quit while you're ahead"? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 12:20:56 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barry Rofman Organization: @Home Network Subject: Cindex question Merry Christmas to all! I'm trying to complete a tutorial and just discovered I have a demonstration copy of Cindex instead of a Student copy. The lesson involves more than 100 records and I'm anxious to get it done so I was wondering if I can do 100 entries as one index and the rest as a separate index and then import both to create one index when I receive the Student copy? Thanks in advance. Rebecca Rofman Moonstone Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 11:34:08 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J. Naomi Linzer" Subject: Re: Cindex question In-Reply-To: <199812251722.JAA19669@neti.saber.net> then import both to create one index when I receive >the Student copy? > >Thanks in advance. > >Rebecca Rofman >Moonstone Indexing My understanding is yes. i believe I did this myself and the files automatically imported into the Student copy when I loaded it in. I have received good e-mail support from Cindex with questions like this one. I have sent their response to my similar question directly to you. Naomi ******************************************************************************** Ms. J. Naomi Linzer Indexing Services POB 1341 Redway, CA 95560 (707) 923-4361 jnlinzer@saber.net ******************************************************************************** ******* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 14:15:00 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: Siteblazer.com Christine, I researched the site and sent a private reply to the original poster. Siteblazer charges $200 for design and $10 per month operating costs, presumably if it's running on their server. What I did NOT check is who OWNS the page and other interesting stuff. I attended a recent "seminar" -- sort of an infomercial -- for some company that does Websites but has some cute restrictions: you are forbidden to link to any commercial sites on your page. Unless, of course they are sites already carried or "sponsored" by this original outfit. [I know that's unclear, sorry.] This seems not only bizarre business practice but also "restraint of trade" although I have no idea what that phrase may mean legally. Happy holidays, everybody... Dave Talcott ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 21:14:22 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PDepri5514@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Addition to ASI Phila group's web site In a message dated 12/24/98 10:37:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, JPerlman@AOL.COM writes: << This is a wonderful site! Thanks to you for pulling all of this information into one place >> Nancy; Could you please give the web address again. I've accidently deleted it! :-) Patrick. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 21:55:14 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Addition to ASI Phila group's web site The website with the interesting compilation of indexing links is: http://www.bcity.com/phila_asi/frameindx.html Janet Perlman ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 16:09:07 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: See more specific topics (was: psychology of indexing) Well said, Carol! I heartily agree with you (and Lynn M. and Wellisch and CMS and Mulvany) and also don't consider the use of general cross-references like "See specific ..." to be the easy way out, not at all! For those of us whose clients do not go for sub-subs, this is often the best alternative. And even when subs-subs are not an issue, cross-references like "See specific ..." work just fine. I also don't find long listings of names after a See/See also ref to be very useful (e.g., See also Bonn (Germany), Brussels (Belgium), London (England), Luxembourg (Luxembourg), Madrid (Spain), Paris (France), etc., to give a poor example). More than four or five words like this is probably too many. For most cases like this, the "See specific...." solution works best. As a matter of fact, the index in Nancy Mulvany's book, Indexing Books, under "cross-references" ends with (guess what): See also specific types of cross-references. Moving on to another well-respected source, The Chicago Manual of Style (14th edition, section 17.19), we find the following examples: sacred writings. See under specific titles or sacred writings, 125-27, 130. See also under specific titles Supposing that the book deals with 50 different such titles (and not as cut-and-dried chapter-by-chapter discussions but with allusions and short treatments throughout the book), there is no way they can all be listed and analyzed in detail under this type of heading. The "sacred writings" heading with locators is meant to be a place where general info is available, but the real meaty index treatment is going to be under each title. This of course presupposes that the reader knows which sacred writings might be discussed in the book, but as someone else pointed out, in regard to specialized books, the reader often is more knowledgeable than we might think. So it is clear that we indexers have well-regarded authorities and precedents behind us when it comes to using general cross-references. At 12:49 PM 12/24/98 -0500, Carol Roberts wrote: >I'll use the example Lynn quotes from Wellisch, because it's better than my >Europe example: > >"mammals, 81, 85, 105 > "see also names of individual mammals > >Sylvia, in your response, you are fixing the problem by inventing a book >that lends itself to your techniques, that is, suggesting problems that are >easily solved. I am imagining precisely the case in which the information >about each mammal is abundant and scattered throughout the book--not a >chapter devoted to each--such that a cross-reference to them from "mammal" >would be warranted (rather than making them subentries). Unless you go down >to sub-subentries, which my clients usually don't allow, if you have enough >info about specific mammals, further categorizing them still leaves you >with subs that have too many locators or too large a page range. And can >also yield the heirarchy problem Lynn brought up, in which the user has to >know what category of mammal each species falls under. > >And having cross-refs from specific mammals to "mammals" doesn't at all >address the issue. The point is to let the user who has found the entry >"mammals" know that this entry is for general info on mammals, but that >there's lots more info about mammals to be found under names of individual >mammals. > >>But I'd >>rather make the extra effort and produce an index I feel really good about. > >Guess what. I too produce indexes that I (and my clients) feel really good >about, *even though* my approach to this problem is different from yours. >I'm not simply giving in to a temptation to take the easy way out, as you >seem to think I'm doing; I'm making a thoughtful choice about what I think >will most help readers, based on what I think they already know (about >mammal species, in this case). > > >Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My >Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. >Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer >http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing > > ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen Bertelsen Indexing and Editorial Services "Cookbooks and Food History a Specialty" cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.usit.com/cbertel/ ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 17:41:28 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Suellen Kasoff Subject: Re: Getting work for a startup index biz Does anybody know of any in-house indexing positions to apply to? Suellen On Wed, 23 Dec 1998 22:59:33 EST PDepri5514@AOL.COM writes: >In a message dated 12/23/98 2:51:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, >Mschwilk@AOL.COM >writes: > ><< If you happen to live in an area where in-house indexing positions >are > available, that is an excellent way to start. I held in-house >positions at > two different publishing houses >> >Hi Mike; > >What do you mean by "in-house position"? Publishers who have indexers >on >staff? >:-) >Happy Holidays. > >Patrick > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 00:28:06 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Tempting Tear-Outs Subject: 028 ===>> FREE 1 yr USA Magazine Sub sent worldwide-200+ Choices! Up to $50.00 value! To be removed from our mailing list, send a blank email message, with the subject of "remove" to: tempting.tear-outs@wolf.net -- FOR MORE INFO: please "cut out" the below form on the "cut" lines shown, and fax it, for the fastest reply to: 1-718-227-9125 (this is a fax # in the USA) or send via smail (first class mail or airmail) to: Tempting Tear-Outs Att. Free-catalogue-by-email Dept 3835 Richmond Ave. Suite #200 Staten Island NY 10312-3828 USA SORRY, BUT.... our software is not set up to accept the below form via return email; WE CAN ONLY acknowledge forms sent in via fax or smail. --> IMPORTANT complete directions, to ensure that you get a reply, and more info follow, below the reply form and the catalogue options. *------------cut here/begin-------------------------------------------* Name (First Middle Last): Internet email address: Smail home address: City-State-Zip: Country: Work Tel. #: Work Fax #: Home Tel. #: Home Fax #: Cellular (Mobile) Tel. #: Beeper (Pager) Tel. #: How did you hear about us (name of person/company who referred you or the area of the internet that you saw us mentioned in): Referred by: Tempting Tear-Outs 0122798-l-aaa Name of USA mags you currently get on the newsstand or in the store: Name of USA mags you currently get on a subscription basis, through the mail: Name of USA mags you would like price quotes on when we call you: Catalogue version desired (list number of choice below): *------------cut here/end--------------------------------------------* CATALOGUE VERSION CHOICES: 1. This version can be read by everyone, no matter what type of computer you use, or what type of software you use. It is a simple format, with just our entire catalogue pasted into the body of a single email message, 316K in size. If you use pine or elm on a unix system or an advanced software version such as Eudora Pro 3.0 or later, you will most likely receive it as a single email message. However, if your software limits incoming email messages to a certain size, say 32K or so, then your software will split it into multiple email message parts. Whether you receive it as a single email message or multiple part email messages, you can easily paste it into one whole text document with your word processor, in about 10 minutes or so. 2. For more advanced computer users: attached plain ascii text file ~316K - you must know how to download an attached text file and then be able to locate it on your hard drive or system home directory; it can then be opened with any pc or mac word processing software. If in doubt, don't ask for this version. This isn't for internet *newbies.* Better to order option 1 and spend a few minutes pasting them into one whole text document with your word processor, than to waste hours trying to figure how to deal with this option. This version is great for doing keyword searches and jumping around within the catalogue with your word processing software, if your normal email reading software doesn't allow this. VERY IMPORTANT DIRECTIONS TO ENSURE THAT YOU GET A REPLY: 1. you must call from an "unblocked number," ie. one that is not blocked from caller id. We are very sorry for this requirement, but our fax software requires this before it allows an incoming fax call to connect. If you have a blocked number, you must first unblock it. In most cases this means dialing *82 from a touch-tone phone (or 1182 from a rotary phone) before you dial 1-718-227-9125. NOTE: If you are not sure if your number is blocked, just try dialing our fax # normally. If you don't get a recording telling you your number is blocked, your number has been transmitted and you may press the start button on your fax when you hear the fax tone from our fax. 2. no reply forms can be accepted by email....only via fax or smail. 3. your form must be typewritten or printed out on your computer printer before you fax it; sorry, but *no* handwritten forms will be acknowledged. If you can't find someone with a typewriter or a computer printer, we apologize for not being able to reply to you. 4. faxes with cover pages will be rejected. You must send *only* the reply form. 5. forms not *completely* filled in will not be acknowledged. 6. you will receive a reply within 1 business day directly from the company making the offer via email. Therefore you must have an email address. If you read this message, then you must have an email address, or access to one, at least. :-) 7. your fax must not exceed 1 page in length. Faxes of 2 or more pages will be sensed, then auto-terminated and deleted. Your fax goes directly onto our 5.0 gigabyte hard drive and we must limit all incoming faxes to 1 page. 8. all faxes must begin with: *------------cut here/begin-------------------------------------------* and must end with: *------------cut here/end--------------------------------------------* 9. Any fax not conforming to this format will be sensed by our software, then auto-terminated and deleted from the hard drive, before any human ever gets to see it. 10. The type on your fax must be dark and legible. If in doubt, please print it out darker before faxing it in. If we can't read it, we can't reply to you or send you our FREE catalogue. :-( 11. If this all seems too complicated for faxing, just do it the old fashioned way via smail!!! WHO WE ARE: Tempting Tear-Outs is an advertising company that brings potential new customers to the companies they advertise for. MORE ABOUT THE COMPANY MAKING THE FREE OFFER: The company making the offer is a magazine subscription agency based in the USA. They have over 1,100 popular USA titles available to be shipped to *any* country, including of course, to anywhere in the USA! They offer a FREE 1 yr. subscription to your choice of over 200 of the titles in their catalogue to any new customer using them for the first time. The dollar value of the freebies, based on the subscription prices directly from the publishers, ranges from $6.97 all the way up to $50.00! For new customers in the USA, there is no charge for FPH (foreign postage & handling), so the freebie is 100% free! For new customers living overseas, the only charge on the freebie would be for the FPH (foreign postage & handling). Their president has been in the magazine subscription business since 1973 and they are very customer-service oriented. They will even help you with address changes on your magazines, even if you move from one country to another country. They have thousands of happy customers in over 59 countries. Their price guarantee is very simple: they guarantee that their subscription prices are the lowest available and they will BEAT any legitimate, verifiable offer before you pay them or match it afterwards, by refunding you the difference in price PLUS the cost of the postage stamp you would use sending in the special offer to them, even 6 months after you pay them, as long as it was current at the time of your offer. Does that sound fair? Wouldn't it be great if everything you bought came with that price guarantee? Sometimes they are less than half of the next best deal out there, sometimes just a little cheaper, but always you get the lowest rates without having to shop around. With 1,100+ titles on their list, they would like to think that they have also the best selection around! Within the USA, for their USA customers, they are cheaper than all their competitors and even the publishers themselves. This is their price guarantee. The 1 yr. freebie that you get with your first order is completely free! Overseas, (even after you factor in the cost of the FPH (foreign postage & handling) and the conversion from USA Dollars to your currency), on the average, they are generally around one-fourth to one-half of what the newsstands overseas charge locally for USA magazines. On some titles they are as little as one-tenth of what the newsstands charge. They are also the cheapest subscription source for delivery overseas, including directly from the publishers themselves! Some publishers don't even offer subscriptions overseas.........but overseas subscriptions are this company's specialty! They feel that magazines should not be a luxury overseas. In the USA, people buy magazines and then toss them after reading them for just a few minutes or hours. They are so cheap in the USA! Well, this company would like to make it the same way for their overseas customers. They are also cheaper than all their competitors in the USA and overseas, including the publishers themselves! It is also *highly unlikely* you will find any of their USA competitors calling you overseas, in order to offer that personal touch, just to sell you a couple of magazines! But that is what this company specializes in and loves doing! Around one-half their business comes from overseas, so they are very patient with new customers who only speak limited English as a 2nd language. Subscription prices quoted for overseas consist of the subscription price, plus the FPH. You add the two together and that is your total cost. The exception is the 1 yr. freebie you get with your first order. On that title, you pay *only* the FPH for the 1 yr. term. Their prices are so cheap because when you deal with them, you cut-out all the middlemen. HERE IS HOW YOU CAN GET MORE INFO AND GET STARTED WITH THEM: Simply fax or smail back to us the reply form listed at the top of this message. We will then forward your form on to the subscription agency. They will then email their "big and juicy" catalogue to you, in whichever of the two formats you chose. The catalogue is FREE and makes for hours of fascinating reading, on its own. It includes the complete list of freebies, a complete list of all the titles they sell, as well as detailed descriptions on most of the titles, along with lists of titles by category of interest and their terms of sale. They will then give you a friendly, no-pressure, no obligation, 5-minute call to go over how they work and to answer any questions that you might have, as well as give you up-to-the minute price quotes on any titles you might be considering. They will call you in whatever country you live in, taking the time difference into account. As they like to emphasize the personal touch they give to each new customer, all first-time orders can only be done via phone, so they can answer all your questions completely and personally. Once you have placed your first order via phone, you will be able to place future orders and make inquiries on your account, get price quotes, etc., all via email, if that is most convenient for you. Within the USA, they accept payment via check over the phone, Mastercard, Visa, American Express, Diner's Club and Carte Blanche. Overseas, they accept Mastercard, Visa, American Express, Diner's Club and Carte Blanche, even if your credit card is a local one in local currency (that most merchants in the USA would not normally be willing to accept). That's our introduction of our client that we represent. We hope that we have piqued your interest and that you will take the next step to get their free catalogue! Thank you for your time and interest. -- Tempting Tear-Outs. For more info on advertising rates, please write us on your company letterhead, w/business card, via smail to: Tempting Tear-Outs, 3835 Richmond Ave. Suite #200, Staten Island NY 10312-3828, USA. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 09:15:56 -0000 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Re: Siteblazer.com etc. In-Reply-To: I should think there are many new kinds of skulduggery connected with commercial Websites. At least dodgy rules are openly stated. Another thing is cookies, which I don't understand. I welcome the kind you eat, but I have a program that intercepts the other kind. I have not found a clear exposition of what they are or what they do. I would welcome advice on this. Regards _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 08:42:55 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diane Brenner Subject: (no subject) remove ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 12:06:50 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Laura M. Gottlieb" Subject: Laptop info needed, please 28 December 1998 Greetings! I hope that your collective wisdom will be able to help me. My current 486 laptop computer is crumbling before my eyes. The keyboard ceased to function in an efficient way about a year ago, but I was able to get around that problem by hooking up a standard keyboard instead. Now the plastic surrounding the hinge is breaking bit by bit, revealing the wires and chips around the monitor display--and I can no longer close it. It is useless as a portable computer, and the way it's falling apart before my eyes makes me think that its days are truly numbered. Can anyone advise me on what laptop models have good reputations and what kinds of hardware and software would be optimum for me? I should say right away that I'm still using (and am happy with) CINDEX for DOS and Microsoft Word for DOS (!). Except for email and internet access, I don't use a lot of other software, though I've had a fair amount of experience with Windows 95 and think it has many advantages over the Windows 3.1 on my current laptop. Here are some of my questions: are notebooks and laptops the same? Should I get Windows 95 or 98? Should I get a Pentium I or II? The most heavily advertised, least expensive notebook locally is a Compaq notebook described as "233 MHz AMD K6 Processor, 32MB Ram, 4 GB Hard Drive, 24X CD-ROM, 56K Modem Presario 1235." *Is* this a Pentium I processor? (I notice that Compaq advertises a more expensive model as a Pentium II processor.) Do any of you have any experience with it? Are there other inexpensive models I should consider? Given my limited needs, should I buy a used laptop with Windows 95 on it? Any advice on this subject would be very welcome. Email me privately if you wish. And many thanks in advance! --Laura Moss Gottlieb, Freelance Indexer ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 17:14:08 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "C. Fox" Subject: Re: Laptop info needed, please I'm a computerphobe so my advice is not tehnical. But I bought my first laptop a few months ago - the Fujitsu Lifebook 280DX (PC Connection has it for $1399 - 800-800-5555 - they tend to have female salespeople and are very nice) and have been very pleased with the computer and with the company's support. It seems to be one of the few inexpensive machines that has a lithium battery standard - and I thought that was important since I do use the battery option on a regular basis. Anyway - good luck! Catherine Fox -----Original Message----- From: Laura M. Gottlieb To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Monday, December 28, 1998 1:43 PM Subject: Laptop info needed, please >28 December 1998 > >Greetings! > I hope that your collective wisdom will be able to help me. My current >486 laptop computer is crumbling before my eyes. The keyboard ceased to >function in an efficient way about a year ago, but I was able to get around >that problem by hooking up a standard keyboard instead. Now the plastic >surrounding the hinge is breaking bit by bit, revealing the wires and chips >around the monitor display--and I can no longer close it. It is useless as >a portable computer, and the way it's falling apart before my eyes makes me >think that its days are truly numbered. > Can anyone advise me on what laptop models have good reputations and >what kinds of hardware and software would be optimum for me? I should say >right away that I'm still using (and am happy with) CINDEX for DOS and >Microsoft Word for DOS (!). Except for email and internet access, I don't >use a lot of other software, though I've had a fair amount of experience >with Windows 95 and think it has many advantages over the Windows 3.1 on my >current laptop. Here are some of my questions: are notebooks and laptops the >same? Should I get Windows 95 or 98? Should I get a Pentium I or II? The >most heavily advertised, least expensive notebook locally is a Compaq >notebook described as "233 MHz AMD K6 Processor, 32MB Ram, 4 GB Hard Drive, >24X CD-ROM, 56K Modem Presario 1235." *Is* this a Pentium I processor? (I >notice that Compaq advertises a more expensive model as a Pentium II >processor.) Do any of you have any experience with it? Are there other >inexpensive models I should consider? Given my limited needs, should I buy >a used laptop with Windows 95 on it? > Any advice on this subject would be very welcome. Email me privately >if you wish. And many thanks in advance! >--Laura Moss Gottlieb, Freelance Indexer > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 14:29:30 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Siteblazer.com etc. At 09:15 AM 12/28/1998 -0000, J.R. Sampson wrote: >I should think there are many new kinds of skulduggery connected >with commercial Websites. At least dodgy rules are openly stated. >Another thing is cookies, which I don't understand. I welcome the >kind you eat, but I have a program that intercepts the other kind. I >have not found a clear exposition of what they are or what they do. I >would welcome advice on this. Basically, cookies maintain a record of your Internet site visits (only regarding sites that issue them), and are usually quite harmless. A cookie may properly direct you to the portion of a website you visited last time, or maintain a record of your purchases, or in some other way assist you as you surf the Net. You can disable ALL cookies (as you apparently have done) with few ill effects except that you may find it a bit frustrating to get around. Or you can set your browser to tell you when cookies are offered and refuse or accept them individually. Finally, you can allow all cookies, then periodically clean out your cookie folder so there are no traces of your past usage. I've been very active on the Web for about four years. I've bought items, used my credit card innumerable times, created all sorts of passwords for various sites, and so forth. I've pretty much let the cookies fall where they may , and have never had any of my accounts hacked, my credit card number used improperly, etc. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 17:58:35 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Ted Neveln (Write Stuff)" Subject: Vom und Zum and German titles of nobility Certain German nobles have Vom und Zum as part of their title. I have not found a reference source to explain what that means in terms of title. Also I have not found a reference source that summarizes the German system of nobility. It appears to be more complex but more consistent than the British. I have noticed that Rittmeister and Freiherr are both translated Baron; and Prinz and F|rst become Prince but what is the order of rank? Pointing me to a reference tool would be nice or if someone just happens to know off the top of their head that's fine. None of this is impeding progress in my indexing but it would be useful to know Ted Neveln ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 21:31:46 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: EMickiT@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Laptop info needed, please When shopping for a portable computer, you have to do more research. There are more differences between laptop models than between desktops. I am a big fan of laptops. Look at the features they have and make up a spreadsheet. Some things you may need are USB port, infrared port, internal floppy drive versus swapping it with the CD ROM drive, and on and on. One thing I always want is the ability to plug it in without shutting it off when the battery runs down. Some brands recommend you turn it off to plug it in. << Given my limited needs, should I buy a used laptop with Windows 95 on it? >> You can get reconditioned laptops at www.surplusdirect.com, a division of Egghead. You can purchase up to a 4 year warrantee. If you don't need a Mercedes, they have some great models at or under $1000. I still use Cindex for DOS and it runs very well on 16 MB of RAM on Windows 95, but is a tad faster with huge indexes with 32 MB. ("huge:" I have one with 47,000 entries.) I have run it on 8 MB and that's fine, too. Erin (Micki) Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 21:46:34 -0500 Reply-To: hcbaker@trendcomm.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Howard Baker Subject: Re: Vom und Zum and German titles of nobility My edition of Debrett's Correct Form (1990) devotes about a page to German titles. Debrett's is the authority on such matters, so your best bet is to consult the most recent edition, which should be available at your public library. Howard Baker ========================== Howard Baker, M.Phil., LL.M. Trendline Communications Writing/Editing/Indexing 1209-7 Bishop Avenue Toronto, Ontario Canada M2M 4J4 Voice/Fax: +1 (416) 733-9797 E-mail: hcbaker@TrendComm.net ========================== ---------- > From: Ted Neveln > Subject: Vom und Zum and German titles of nobility > Date: Monday, December 28, 1998 8:58 PM > > Certain German nobles have Vom und Zum as part of their title. I have not > found a reference source to explain what that means in terms of title. Also > I have not found a reference source that summarizes the German system of > nobility. It appears to be more complex but more consistent than the > British. I have noticed that Rittmeister and Freiherr are both translated > Baron; and Prinz and F|rst become Prince but what is the order of rank? > > Pointing me to a reference tool would be nice or if someone just happens to > know off the top of their head that's fine. None of this is impeding > progress in my indexing but it would be useful to know > > Ted Neveln ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 22:27:36 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: cookies (was Siteblazer.com etc.) Sonsie wrote: > Basically, cookies maintain a record of your Internet site visits (only > regarding sites that issue them), and are usually quite harmless. A cookie > may properly direct you to the portion of a website you visited last time, > or maintain a record of your purchases, or in some other way assist you as > you surf the Net. > My personal "cookie policy" is to let my browser warn me, and only accept those on sites that I know I will return to, ie., those of my software producers, Amazon.com & other sites of particular interest to me. OTOH I do not accept cookies from sites that I am checking out for the first time just to see if there is anything of interest to me, or in sites where I do not plan to revisit the same area. It is a bit of a nuisance to OK or reject each one but keeps junk from being put on my computer while adding convenience at those "regular" sites. If I plan to go on a "surf-a-thon" I set the browser to reject all cookies temporarily. Ann Ann Truesdale (anntrue@aol.com) TrueWords Freelance Services Yonges Island, SC ************************************************************** If quitters never win, and winners never quit, what fool came up with, "Quit while you're ahead"? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 22:17:31 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joanne Clendenen Subject: Re: cookies In-Reply-To: <199812290329.VAA05010@mailgw.flash.net> I agree with Ann Truesdale. I am currently indexing a textbook on marketing on the Internet, and for privacy and anti-spam reasons, I wouldn't accept all cookies. Many advertising agents on the net use cookies to track your viewing of pages with their ads, and I don't necessarily want to become part of every marketing database in the world. So, for instance, just the other day, I went to Netscape's site to download an upgrade. I did not accept the cookies from Imgis (and ad agency), but I did accept the ones from Netscape that would make my downloading experience easier and would notify me of further upgrade availability. I just want to exercise some control and choice in this matter. Joanne AfterWords Indexing Services Joanne E. Clendenen email: jbclend@bigfoot.com http://www.flash.net/~jbclend ---------------- "When your work speaks for itself, don't interrupt." Henry J. Kaiser -----Original Message----- From: Indexer's Discussion Group [mailto:INDEX-L@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu] On Behalf Of Ann Truesdale Sent: Monday, December 28, 1998 9:28 PM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: Re: cookies (was Siteblazer.com etc.) Sonsie wrote: > Basically, cookies maintain a record of your Internet site visits (only > regarding sites that issue them), and are usually quite harmless. A cookie > may properly direct you to the portion of a website you visited last time, > or maintain a record of your purchases, or in some other way assist you as > you surf the Net. > My personal "cookie policy" is to let my browser warn me, and only accept those on sites that I know I will return to, ie., those of my software producers, Amazon.com & other sites of particular interest to me. OTOH I do not accept cookies from sites that I am checking out for the first time just to see if there is anything of interest to me, or in sites where I do not plan to revisit the same area. It is a bit of a nuisance to OK or reject each one but keeps junk from being put on my computer while adding convenience at those "regular" sites. If I plan to go on a "surf-a-thon" I set the browser to reject all cookies temporarily. Ann Ann Truesdale (anntrue@aol.com) TrueWords Freelance Services Yonges Island, SC ************************************************************** If quitters never win, and winners never quit, what fool came up with, "Quit while you're ahead"?