From: SMTP%"LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu" 26-MAR-1998 05:25:58.69 To: CIRJA02 CC: Subj: File: "INDEX-L LOG9801C" Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 04:42:45 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9801C" To: CIRJA02@GSVMS1.CC.GASOU.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 20:28:37 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dwight Walker Subject: WWWalker Web indexing course - curriculum and prebooking form Hi I have just mounted the curriculum and prebooking forms for the first Web indexing courses to be run world-wide! They run over 2 weeks in Feb, Mar and Apr 98 (at this stage) and will use ICQ chat, interactive Web tutorials, email and internet phone. Should be exciting. If there is anyone out there who can translate from English to French I'd be happy to get in touch. I have some interest from French speakers to do the course in French. Here is the URL: http://www.wwwalker.com.au/webcourse.html - Web indexing course curriculum http://www.wwwalker.com.au/webrego.html - Web indexing course prebooking Cheers Dwight Walker WWWalker Web Development ---------------------------------------------------------- Dwight Walker, Sydney, Australia tel +61-2-98902691, mob 0412-405727, fax +61-2-97772058 ICQ No. 4631678, handle: wwwalker (www.mirabilis.com) WWWalker Web Development: http://www.wwwalker.com.au Australian Society of Indexers: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi Sydney Linux Users Group: http://www.slug.org.au Waverley Randwick Philharmonic http://www.wwwalker.com.au/wrps.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:28:13 +1100 Reply-To: Jonathan Jermey Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey Subject: Re: QUERY: Wellisch's views, how acceptable? Simon Cauchi wrote: > > >Is this true? Do people usually now alphabetize subheadings by the first >word, whatever it may be? > I index with the KISS philosophy (Keep It Simple). Unless there is a *very* good reason to complicate matters, I prefer to use as few rules as possible. In my opinion if a little word is important enough to be in a subheading, then it is important enough to be considered in filing. I also believe that filing order in subdivisions is less significant than in main entries (at least for the sort of indexes I create, where I would rarely have more than 10 subdivisions under a heading). With main headings you can use double entry and see references to create more access points - with subdivisions it is better to make it easy for the user to browse (e.g. by limiting the number of subdivisions to a browsable number). >pp. 26-28, subheadings beginning with "and" > >Wellisch disapproves of these Subheadings should be as informative and accessible as possible, and I believe Wellisch's approved examples are better than the ones using 'and'. I avoid using 'and' where possible. > >Do most people similarly eschew "and" at the start of subheadings? > > >pp. 294-297, article on "MAC" > >Wellisch recommends alphabetizing names beginning with "Mac", "Mc", or "M'" >strictly according to the spelling, The thought of indexing M as if it was spelt Mac appals me. The logic is that people would not know whether someone was called McDonald or MacDonald, and that this mixed sorting would help them. If you follow this logic you would also interfile Brown and Browne; Petersen, Peterson, Petterson, Pederson and so on. I like the approach of the New South Wales telephone directory, which aids people to the correct spot, rather than filing things in the wrong spot. They do this by inserting notes where there might be a mixup ( something like: "for Brown, consider also the spellings Browne, Broun and Braun" (I don't have it with me, but this is the general idea). I must admit though, that they also interfile M, Mc and Mac, which I do not like. But they have a note at the top of every page explaining what they have done, including the comment that non-Scottish names such as Mace also get mixed up in this process. (And this, of course, is a major problem with the interfiled approach). >NB: I'm NOT asking you all to report your own individual practices about >these matters, but rather looking for well-informed comments about the >general acceptability of Wellisch's recommendations -- the three I mention >and also any others that might be a bit controversial. These are my personal practices, but from memories of discussions with other Australian indexers, I think Wellisch's ideas are fairly well accepted. I certainly can't recall any controversy (I think there has been more controversy on Index-L, for example, about the use and position and filing of 'and'). I think opinions on this might depend on what people learnt when they were going through librarian training or indexer training. Perhaps those like me who bought Wellisch as their first textbook don't have any committment to the other/older practices. Glenda. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:56:38 +1100 Reply-To: Jonathan Jermey Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey Subject: Re: exhaustable headings (was: reference sources: plant names -Reply) Sharon wrote: >As for the peripheral material, the questions you need >to ask yourself are ... and "Can this entry be >completed?" ... > Of course, all rules are made to be broken, but I find >that a good rule of thumb is not to start a heading that >can't be exhausted. >------------------------------ > > This describes very clearly a concept I have been grappling with. Thank-you. I have also noticed a related issue in indexing. There are problems when a piece of information which warrants a subdivision on one page is included in an undifferentiated (or differently differentiated) entry on another page. For example, in a gardening book one page discussed the time to pick fruit, so I had an entry: 'avocados, time to pick'. Another page discusses avocados, covering many aspects, including the best time to pick them. This page got references for the main subject and a few other aspects, but NOT 'time to pick'. Because I remembered that this aspect had been covered I later went back and added the page number for the main discussion of avocados to the subdivision 'time to pick'. If I hadn't remembered (and I am sure there would be cases where I didn't) then the subdivision would be missing a reference. The first time I noticed this problem was as a user of indexes, and I have noticed it in an index which I know was prepared by a highly reputable indexer, so I believe it must be a common problem. Is it something others have encountered as index users or creator, and, more importantly, are there any tactics to avoid or minimise the problem (short of indexing every minute piece of information on every page). Glenda. > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:46:24 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11 Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Wellisch's views I'll try to refrain, as Simon requested, from telling my own opinions/practices about these things :-). ALL of my social science/ humanities publishers want initial prepositions and conjuntions ignored in sorting, so I would not agree with Hans Wellisch that this goes against current practice. Sonsie wrote: << ...don't know about "most" indexing software, but Macrex automatically ignores certain prepositions and other beginning words, and you can edit that list to include (or un-include) any other terms you want to ignore during the sort procedure. I believe Cindex operates the same way, and I would expect that any professional program would do the same. >> Macrex (and Cindex, I presume) ignores initial words IF you set it to do so. You can also have it follow them in sorting. And you can edit the list of words you want ignored. Filing M', Mc and Mac as spelled, instead of as if they're all spelled Mac, is the new Chicago Manual of Style preference (they changed to it with the latest edition). My publishers, about 2/3 of whom were using old way, are all gradually switching, because they mostly like to follow Chicago. I use "and" in subheadings a lot (oh all right, you're getting my opinion) and in the conceptually complex scholarly indexes I create, there's often no other option. Publishers seem to feel fine about this, since we're talking about publishing standards here. I do think it's important especially for beginners to remember not to learn just one style in cases like these. Although it's important for us as professional indexers to have informed opinions and offer them when they're welcome, the final decision rests with the publisher and will vary from client to client. Do Mi Stauber ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:00:31 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Joanne E. Clendenen" Organization: AfterWords Indexing Services Subject: Re: Wellisch's views On initial prepositions, I thought I should put my 2 cents in, and if I'm duplicating anyone else, apologies: I do both paragraph/style (run-in) indexes and indented style indexes. My indented ones are for business books, mostly, and the paragraph ones are for humanities/social sciences/history. I try to minimize prepositions in the indented indexes, but the way the subentries flow in the paragraph-style indexes, I like to keep the grammatical flow by using prepositions. It reads better in my opinion. In indented indexes, though, the repetition of "ands", etc. can look a bit silly when scanning subentries that each have their own line. Then I use the prepositions only if serious ambiguity would result. I agree with Do Mi that you need to be flexible about this. Joanne -- AfterWords Indexing Services Joanne E. Clendenen email: jbclend@bigfoot.com http://www.flash.net/~jbclend ---------------- "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not any simpler." Einstein ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:14:28 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Joanne E. Clendenen" Organization: AfterWords Indexing Services Subject: Re: Beginners' workshop, redux Many thanks for all the inputs on the beginners' indexing workshop! I knew I could count on you folks! Looks like we have a discrepancy between those who just want an exercise on the whole process and those who want to spend more time learning the tricks of the trade from experienced people. I will see about sending out an exercise before the workshop. We will have to be flexible since not everyone will end up doing the thing before they arrive. Kay Schlembach and I will try to balance your needs, but you need to keep in mind that there will be other workshops that will deal in more detail with topics like editing and subject analysis (choosing of terms). We will probably make this an overview of the whole process, with time for some tips along the way. Thanks again for your views! Joanne -- AfterWords Indexing Services Joanne E. Clendenen email: jbclend@bigfoot.com http://www.flash.net/~jbclend ---------------- "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not any simpler." Einstein ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:04:00 PST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Erica Treesh Subject: Unicode, Indexes & CD-ROMs This request for information is being posted on asis-l, diglibns-l, index-l, and infoquality-l. Please forgive any duplicate postings. List Members, The American Theological Library Association is preparing to produce its first CD-ROM that incorporates Unicode strings. The project involves digitizing a bibliographic/abstract annual for biblical studies that includes isolated words or phrases in Hebrew and Greek characters as well as full diacritical transliteration for non-Latin characters. By use of Hebrew, Greek, and the Phonetic (IPA) Unicode character sets, we can maintain the integrity of the original hardcopy source in electronic format that, in theory, can be viewed in any Unicode environment where these character sets are available. The initial preparation of the data will occur on a Windows platform. We are aware that many who purchase this product will use it in an ASCII environment, so we shall have to do one of two things: (a) supply two copies of the data, one that is entirely ASCII-readable, the other with Unicode inclusions, or (b) produce a single file with a setup program that permits the user to +activate+ the Unicode characters, or not. Have any of you made, are planning to make or have foregone the move from an exclusively ASCII database or product to a mixture of ASCII and Unicode? The Unicode text editor we are exploring, UniEditor, is part of the WinCallis educational software suite produced and marketed by Duke University, which comes with the necessary fonts. Do any of you have a track record with this software, or can recommend other Unicode authoring software? Can you share with us your experiences in producing CD-ROMs or other forms of electronic text delivery on a Windows platform that works in a mixed ASCII/Unicode environment? Finally, if any of your organizations do startup consulting work involving multilingual information exchange of the sort outlined above, or can recommend such a firm, we would appreciate the names and addresses. Thanking you in advance for your expertise, I am Steven W. Holloway, Ph.D. Indexer-Analyst at the American Theological Library Association Evanston, IL sholloway@atla.com [posted by E Treesh: etreesh@atla.com] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:08:58 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Shirley K Warkentin Subject: Re: ISO 999 Is ISO 999 available in the United States? If so, where do you get it and how much does it cost? Shirley Warkentin Cornerstone Indexing indexer@juno.com On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:25:26 +1000 Alan Walker writes: >At 07:49 AM 15/01/98 +1300, Simon Cauchi wrote: >> >>I'm beginning to think I really am going to have to fork out $NZ180 >for ISO >>999 after all. But not yet, please G*d, not just yet! > >No, not just yet, Simon. We are in the process of getting ISO 999 >adopted as >an Australian standard, which will reduce the price in Australia, and >this >will certainly bring the price for New Zealanders down well below >$NZ180. It >should be available as an AS in a month or two. > >Alan > >**************************************************************** > >Alan Walker, Indexer >President, Australian Society of Indexers >10 Rockwall Crescent, Potts Point, NSW, Australia 2011 > >Tel: +61 2 9368 0174 +61 2 9368 0176 Fax: +61 2 9358 5593 >Email: alan.walker@s054.aone.net.au > >**************************************************************** > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:42:58 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Horowitz Subject: Re: ISO 999 Here is the web site for International Standards Organization http://www.hike.te.chiba-u.ac.jp/ikeda/ISO/home.html This was from a couple of months ago so if the URL does not work, trying using one of the search enginges and look up the organization. Roberta Horowitz At 10:08 AM 1/15/98 -0800, you wrote: >Is ISO 999 available in the United States? If so, where do you get it >and how much does it cost? > >Shirley Warkentin >Cornerstone Indexing >indexer@juno.com > >On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:25:26 +1000 Alan Walker > writes: >>At 07:49 AM 15/01/98 +1300, Simon Cauchi wrote: >>> >>>I'm beginning to think I really am going to have to fork out $NZ180 >>for ISO >>>999 after all. But not yet, please G*d, not just yet! >> >>No, not just yet, Simon. We are in the process of getting ISO 999 >>adopted as >>an Australian standard, which will reduce the price in Australia, and >>this >>will certainly bring the price for New Zealanders down well below >>$NZ180. It >>should be available as an AS in a month or two. >> >>Alan >> >>**************************************************************** >> >>Alan Walker, Indexer >>President, Australian Society of Indexers >>10 Rockwall Crescent, Potts Point, NSW, Australia 2011 >> >>Tel: +61 2 9368 0174 +61 2 9368 0176 Fax: +61 2 9358 5593 >>Email: alan.walker@s054.aone.net.au >> >>**************************************************************** >> > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 18:24:32 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: web site and temping Just to let people know that I just got a query from someone directly from my web site. And to think I almost closed it down. I'm up over a thousand hits, now, too, in less than a year. Course about a fourth of those are me. Now, to those of you who do some temp work in between indexes (I know I've seen mention of this from at least one other and I can't remember who), how do you handle assignments? Do you only take short term ones? What happens if (I should be so lucky) an index comes in and you're on an assignment? What if you don't take an assignment and an index slips? How do you juggle it all? I've just finished an index and feel I have learned a lot about subentries in the past few weeks from you all. I made some significant changes (hopefully improvements) to the way I do things in this one, and feel like I am finally getting to be a better indexer. I wish I had more work so I could practice more. Is anyone else in a slump? I got no responses from a mega-marketing session. Very discouraged. And, I've just decided I can't go to Seattle due to no money for airfare, food, shelter, courses, fees, etc. Very very sad. I feel I really need the experience and practice. Oh well, Can't Go, that's that. Looking forward to the Vermont indexers lunch on Saturday, if there is one and we're not all snowed in. Somebody say something to cheer me up. Can we have another flame war? That was endlessly amusing to me. I was sorry it was over so quick. Can't believe I admitted that, but it's true. What does that say about me? Well, we all know I'm peculiar. My log fire isn't drawing well. Got to go tend it. Rachel Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:40:14 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Manke, Kristin L" Subject: Conversion program needed: CINDEX page numbers to HTML "a href" c ommands Hello, Sorry for the confusing subject line, but I'm a bit in over my head today. I'm trying to develop an index for a web site for some folks in my company (hopefully, this is just the beginning of my indexing work for my company). I created a test file in CINDEX for Windows 95 that contains ~50 entries. I would like to find a program that would take the file and do the following: 1) convert the locators to "a href" commands, 2) build the internal jumps from the See and See also entries, and 3) add the alphabet at the top that jumps to the alphabetical section in the index. I know very little about html and am hoping that there is a simple, cheap program that I can purchase to do this for me. Any suggestions on software or methods of attacking the problem would be greatly, greatly appreciated. As long as I'm writing, I'll take just a moment to introduce myself. Where to start? I'm a newbie indexer. I've taken the USDA course and purchased CINDEX (I'm reading the manual, but have only found methods to convert the files to html, not build the tags). Being new to the field, I'm slowly getting involved in my local chapter and trying to learn the ropes. The rest of my live involves working as a technical editor for Pacific Northwest National Laboratory in Richland, Washington; learning to quilt; leading a local book group; and playing with my cats. Kristin Manke kristin.manke@pnl.gov ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 23:34:21 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Parrish Subject: Job Opportunity I am passing this along for those who have not seen it and might be interested: > >please confirm receipt of this job description and when it >will be posted. > >thank you. > >janet christian >hr manager > >--------------9D38717E20A88D08CD2476B5 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="info-req.txt" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Content-Disposition: inline; filename="info-req.txt" > > >Job Requisition > >Information Specialist/Project Coordinator > >Background > >Lexical Technology is working with the National Library of Medicine on the development of the Unified >Medical Language System Metathesaurus. The Metathesaurus is a synthesis of more than 30 biomedical >vocabularies and naming systems. It preserves the names, meanings, hierarchical contexts, attributes, and >inter-term relationships present in its source vocabularies; adds certain basic information to each concept; >and establishes new relationships between terms from different source vocabularies. > >Responsibilities >? Analyzes and prepares source terminologies for incorporation in the UMLS Metathesaurus >? Provides customer support to NLM >? Works with the Lexical and NLM teams to identify and implement opportunities to enhance the >Metathesaurus development process >Additional projects may include >? Participation in the design and development other UMLS-based projects and products >? Participation in development of Lexical's website. >Requirements >? Masters Degree in Library Science, Information Science, or Medical Informatics preferred. >Coursework in health sciences or biology desired. >? Understanding of the content and structure of biomedical terminologies, including MeSH. >Experience with clinical terminologies such as SNOMED, ICD, and CPT4 desirable. >? Excellent communication, interpersonal and organizational skills; strong attention to detail >? Unix experience and some programming & database background desirable, including perl, SQL, >and Unix tools. >Further Information >If you are unfamiliar with Lexical, please browse our Home Page (http://www.lexical.com/) for information >about our background, employees, and some of our current projects. >If you are interested, please send a resume to: >Lexical Technology Inc. >950 Marina Village Parkway, Suite 100 >Alameda, CA 94501-1147 > Attn: Janet Christian >or fax your resume to (510)-865-1312. You may also contact Janet at (510)-865-8500 or >janet@lexical.com for more information. We look forward to hearing from you. Please feel free to forward >the URL or the text of this page to anyone who may be interested. Lexical is an Equal Opportunity and >Affirmative Action Employer ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:00:57 -0500 Reply-To: t.craven@uwo.ca Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Tim Craven Organization: The University of Western Ontario Subject: Re: Conversion program needed: CINDEX page numbers to HTML "a href" c ommands My XRefHTMW freeware program will do a lot of what Kristin Manke is looking for. Cross-references can be added automatically via the TheW program, also freeware. For more details, see my home page at http://netlib.slis.uwo.ca/craven/index.htm or send me e-mail. -- | Tim Craven, Fac. of Communications and Open Learning, | Elborn Coll., U. of Western Ontario, London, ON N6G 1H1 CANADA | t.craven@uwo.ca | (519)-679-2111 ext. 8497 | fax (519)-661-3506 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:38:59 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Psvenndex Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: office equipment Good Morning, As a new indexer in the midst of my first marketing effort, I am wondering if I should have or need to have a fax machine or multifunctional machine? I would think many clients would prefer to fax sample pages or contracts to speed up the process. Thanks in advance for any advice. Pamela Venneman Lighthouse Indexing Services ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:43:27 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: office equipment Pamela, I would say that the ability to receive/send faxes is important. But if, as a new indexer, you cannot buy a machine, I would go for using a Mailbox place or a Kinkos to send/receive the faxes, and pay for them as they come in. That works for a while, til you get busy. It's a stopgap measure. Best case scenario is to bite the bullet and buy the machine. A multifunction isn't necessary. A simple fax phone can be bought for around $200 -- not too awful. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:19:05 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bookindexr Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: office equipment In a message dated 1/16/98 8:40:54 AM Central Standard Time, Psvenndex@AOL.COM writes: << I would think many clients would prefer to fax sample pages or contracts to speed up the process. >> Pam, if you don't already have it, you can get a program to send and receive faxes from your computer. Windows95 comes with a fax program. Write me personally for brand names. Susan Wilkerson Bookinder@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:41:00 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Herr Hallinger Organization: Herr's Indexing Service Subject: Vermont lunch Rachel and others The Vermont lunch is still on for Saturday. The last weather forecast that I heard was calling for the snow to let up this afternoon, with possible sightings of the sun tomorrow :) I am certainly not encouraging anyone to travel a long distance if you are not comfortable with the road conditions, but for now, the forecast sounds pretty good. If things change, we can reschedule the lunch. Linda Hallinger ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 07:40:35 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: office equipment In-Reply-To: <199801161503.HAA14953@powergrid.electriciti.com> I believe Janet's advice to be perfect, but will elaborate. My experience has been that it's best to buy dedicated equipment. A simple fax is prefereable to a multifunction unit because you will not lose the ability to fax, if the printer goes out and vice versa. Cameras make the best cameras. Camera-headlight combos (imagimary example) usually combine a poor camera with a poor headlight. Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:13:41 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah H Lemaire Subject: Re: office equipment In-Reply-To: <199801161440.AA29534@world.std.com> Well, I guess I'm in the minority, but I've been indexing and copyediting at home part-time, and I've never had an urgent need for a fax machine. When I do need to send a fax (most frequently my resume), it's usually outgoing and I can fax the file directly from my PC with Microsoft FAX (although occasionally there are glitches). At other times, I fax from the hardware store. I can only remember one or two times that I needed to receive a fax. Then I used the hardware store as well. I checked my work expenses for 1997 and I spent $15 on outgoing faxes (received none) at $3 a pop. Most of my communication is done via e-mail or regular mail or courier. Sarah Lemaire ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:48:01 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kathy Barber Subject: Re: Conversion program needed: CINDEX page numbers to HTML "a href commands I've used HTML/Prep from Leverage Technologies. It can be set up to work specifically with CINDEX and it will do all three of the things you listed. It's easy to use and requires a minimum of HTML knowledge. Best of all, Dave Reim is very helpful. I think the price is now $60. http://www.LevTechInc.com Kathy At 03:40 PM 1/15/98 -0800, you wrote: >Hello, > >Sorry for the confusing subject line, but I'm a bit in over my head >today. I'm trying to develop an index for a web site for some folks in >my company (hopefully, this is just the beginning of my indexing work >for my company). I created a test file in CINDEX for Windows 95 that >contains ~50 entries. I would like to find a program that would take the >file and do the following: 1) convert the locators to "a href" commands, >2) build the internal jumps from the See and See also entries, and 3) >add the alphabet at the top that jumps to the alphabetical section in >the index. I know very little about html and am hoping that there is a >simple, cheap program that I can purchase to do this for me. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:06:50 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SCTopping Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: office equipment In response to Pam Venneman's question about a fax, I have a general rule of thumb: Never buy any office equipment until you have cussed three times because you don't have it when you really need it! I've now been indexing full-time for six years. We have an old "El Cheapo" thermal-paper fax/phone which has served us well. My use of faxing has been relatively minimal (receiving replacement pages; sending question lists to editors, etc.). I'm only now considering a state-of-the-art plain-paper fax with all possible bells and whistles, mainly because I'm moving my office to better quarters in an unused bedroom (A window! I'll have a real Window!). Instead of getting a "better" fax, I recommend for that a newbie get an inexpensive fax/phone, a simple copier and a reliable answering machine. Check your local newspaper want-ads, in the office equipment column -- you might be able to pick up something second-hand, or find a reputable used- equipment dealer. Reliability in often-used equimpent is much more important than having the latest gadget! Happy trails, Sandy ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:11:24 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: office equipment At 10:19 AM 1/16/98 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 1/16/98 8:40:54 AM Central Standard Time, Psvenndex@AOL.COM >writes: > ><< I > would think many clients would prefer to fax sample pages or contracts to > speed up the process. >> > >Pam, if you don't already have it, you can get a program to send and receive >faxes from your computer. Windows95 comes with a fax program. Write me >personally for brand names. But you still need something with which to fax hard copy material. FWIW, I have never been able to get fax software to work and use only a mechanical fax. I don't have a lot of use for a fax, but I do feel it is a necessary piece of equipment. Also, I highly recommend getting a plain-paper version. It's a pain having to cut up multiple pages that arrive on a roll and the shiny paper used on a roll doesn't take highlighting pen well. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:33:59 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: CGWeaver Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: office equipment In a message dated 98-01-16 09:40:54 EST, you write: << As a new indexer in the midst of my first marketing effort, I am wondering if I should have or need to have a fax machine or multifunctional machine? I would think many clients would prefer to fax sample pages or contracts to speed up the process >> I now have a stand-alone fax machine which also doubles as a photocopier as long as all you need is a file copy of an original (like a receipt for tax purposes when you're sending off the original for a rebate) and don't care about how pretty the copy is. Before I got the standalone machine I used fax software for outgoing messages and a fax mailbox (for which you pay a monthly fee) for incoming messages. Since my fax traffic is pretty light, this seemed sufficient. But there are strong limitations to this method, since you also need a scanner to send anything that's not already in machine-readable form (like marked-up proof sheets that are going back to the editor or a contract with a signature). Even if I don't use it much, I vastly prefer my stand-alone machine for fax applications, particularly since it handles light-duty copies as well. Which brings me to my current dilemma for input from the list. I'm currently debating whether to buy an office copier. I just upgraded from an inkjet to a laser printer at the end of December, thanks to a very large client payment on December 26 that I didn't expect until THIS tax year, and am now nicely spoiled by laser-quality 8ppm printing. Any recommendations as to features to look for in a stand-alone copier? The projected use is light, but sometimes more than my trusty fax machine can accommodate with its 'copy' button when I'm facing a deadline with no time for a trip to Kinko's. Carolyn Weaver ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:46:15 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: office equipment Remember, also, that there are in-computer fax programs that allow you to receive faxes and to send faxes of letters or other information you have produced in your computer (by Word or WordPerfect, say). You might want to consider that option. I use WinFax Pro and find that it meets nearly all of my needs. In those cases where I need to fax out something not in the computer, I use a local business store. Fred Leise Between the Lines Indexing and Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:36:00 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "John R. Sullivan" Subject: Re: office equipment Just to toss in my two cents' worth: I've been using both HP and MS fax software without problems for some time to send and receive faxes directly with my PC. I also have a flatbed scanner that I can use to fax hard copy (as well as to make local copies to my printer). I didn't buy the scanner for that purpose (it's slower and less convenient than a dedicated fax or copier); however, being able to copy and to fax in addition to the other neat things I can do with the copier are nice capabilities to have. John Sullivan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:12:44 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: office equipment At 12:33 PM 1/16/98 EST, you wrote: >Which brings me to my current dilemma for input from the list. I'm currently >debating whether to buy an office copier. I have a Canon PC-6RE that cost about $800 several years ago. It's probably cheaper now. It's great for making multiple copies of a single original, but doesn't have a sheet feeder or collater. I doubt you can get such features at a reasonable price, though. One nice feature is an articulated lid that bends to accommodate thick originals like a book. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:43:46 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bookindexr Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: office equipment In a message dated 1/16/98 12:05:14 PM Central Standard Time, John_Sullivan@VOS.STRATUS.COM writes: << I've been using both HP and MS fax software without problems for some time to send and receive faxes directly with my PC. I also have a flatbed scanner that I can use to fax hard copy (as well as to make local copies to my printer). I didn't buy the scanner for that purpose (it's slower and less convenient than a dedicated fax or copier); however, being able to copy and to fax in addition to the other neat things I can do with the copier are nice capabilities to have >> Great Idea John!! I had a few problems with my software when I first got my computer but with the help of tech support was able to iron out the problems. Have been sending faxes and receiving them on a daily bases for the last two years without any problems. I don't have a dedicated fax at home so sending hard copies would be inconvenient. (by the way how often do you need to send you mock ups? Do you normally to that with every job or just occasionally when requested by the publisher? Why would the publisher want your mockup?) I have been needing a scanner for a long time for other things other than indexing, this would be the perfect solution to my problem since I also need a copier at home. I can make copies and send hard copy faxes from work. I may just occasionally need to do it from home...thanks John. Pam if you are like me just getting on your feet, you need to save your bucks for getting business in to pay for those pieces of equipment that would make your life easier. Susan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:09:16 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: CGWeaver Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: office equipment In a message dated 98-01-16 13:47:04 EST, you write: << (by the way how often do you need to send you mock ups? Do you normally to that with every job or just occasionally when requested by the publisher? Why would the publisher want your mockup?) >> Actually, it's 'markup' of index galley proofs. I always volunteer to proofread the galleys, and a few of my clients take me up on it. It's AMAZING what can happen to page/column breaks and indents between the time the index goes to the client on disk and the time it appears in print; and by proofreading I can catch the worst of the formatting goofs and any residual errors of my own. Since they want the galleys back yesterday, faxing of marked-up copy is the only way to go. Mainstream publishers usually don't expect proofreading from their indexers; but small presses and author-clients often appreciate it. (Yes, I do include the proofreading time in my bill!) Carolyn Weaver ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:24:06 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lillian Ashworth Subject: Query: unpaid invoices Hi - Have any of you used Small Claims Court as a way to collect payment from companies who are dragging their feet when it comes to paying for past indexing work? If so, what has been your experience with this means of bill collecting? Lillian Ashworth ashworth@pullman.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:58:18 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Suellen Kasoff Subject: Re: office equipment FWIW, my son and I have been faxing fromSuperVoice. Seems to work well. Suellen On Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:11:24 -0500 Richard Evans writes: >At 10:19 AM 1/16/98 EST, you wrote: >>In a message dated 1/16/98 8:40:54 AM Central Standard Time, >Psvenndex@AOL.COM >>writes: >> >><< I >> would think many clients would prefer to fax sample pages or >contracts to >> speed up the process. >> >> >>Pam, if you don't already have it, you can get a program to send and >receive >>faxes from your computer. Windows95 comes with a fax program. Write >me >>personally for brand names. > >But you still need something with which to fax hard copy material. > >FWIW, I have never been able to get fax software to work and use only >a >mechanical fax. > >I don't have a lot of use for a fax, but I do feel it is a necessary >piece >of equipment. Also, I highly recommend getting a plain-paper version. >It's a pain having to cut up multiple pages that arrive on a roll and >the >shiny paper used on a roll doesn't take highlighting pen well. > >Dick > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:39:55 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: office equipment At 12:33 PM 1/16/1998 EST, CGWeaver wrote: >Which brings me to my current dilemma for input from the list. I'm currently >debating whether to buy an office copier. I just upgraded from an inkjet to a >laser printer at the end of December, thanks to a very large client payment on >December 26 that I didn't expect until THIS tax year, and am now nicely >spoiled by laser-quality 8ppm printing. Any recommendations as to features to >look for in a stand-alone copier? The projected use is light, but sometimes >more than my trusty fax machine can accommodate with its 'copy' button when >I'm facing a deadline with no time for a trip to Kinko's. Carolyn, for about 12 years I lived and died by an old Canon PC-24 (PC = Personal Copier). We =still= keep it around for emergencies, though I'm planning to donate it to a local charity. It has a movable copystand, which is an annoyance (because you need to allow extra room wherever you are setting it up), but it has been an absolute workhorse. In all those years I have spent exactly $80 on any sort of repair, and it is still in good condition. The refills, which are rated at 2000 copies, usually last nearly twice as long. A similar, more modern model can be had for about $300, +/- $50 or so. If you can opt for something better, look at the next level, which starts at around $500. For that, you should be able to get a stationary copystand AND a larger range of reduction/enlargement sizes. (The smallest Canons have none; the $300 models usually have something that converts legal to letter size and maybe one or two other "standard" reductions or enlargements). I don't often need enlarging or reducing for my indexing work, but being able to make an 8-1/2 x 14 sheet fit on a letter size piece of paper is sometimes a godsend. I understand that it is the Canon engine which runs HP lasers, and they are also widely acknowledged to be superior, long-lasting machines. (My HP laser is about six years old and has cost me nothing yet for repairs.) Go for a Canon (or an HP, if they make them in the price range you can afford). =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:39:57 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Query: unpaid invoices At 11:24 AM 1/16/1998 -0800, Lillian Ashworth wrote: >Have any of you used Small Claims Court as a way to collect payment from >companies who are dragging their feet when it comes to paying for past >indexing work? > >If so, what has been your experience with this means of bill collecting? I've gone this route, and I've been extremely successful. I've sued three times, been paid off before the court date once, and won (and collected) the other two times. It is more difficult to collect from an out-of-state client, but it may be worth it anyway, as many companies WILL just pay up when they see that you are serious. Good luck! =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:06:50 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: office equipment In-Reply-To: <199801161821.KAA24894@powergrid.electriciti.com> I fax more through software (Procomm) than on my HP machine, but use the HP for manuscript pages (as in pages on which I find a typo or other problem), because I understood that scanning will not necessarily create an absolutely accurate reproduction of an original. Is this true? At 12:36 PM 1/16/98 EST, John wrote: I also have a flatbed scanner that I can use to fax hard copy (as >well as to make local copies to my printer). Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:51:29 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: office equipment In-Reply-To: I've got a fax modem and in 8 years have only needed to send a fax from outside my computer 4 times and all of them were to do with buying my condo just recently, never to do with indexing or editing and which cost a total of about $20. I've also never needed a copier. Sandy, I'm curious to know why you recommended a copier. What do you all copy? Paranoia sets in: should I be copying something I'm not? :-/ And if one is going to get a freestanding fax after all (as opposed to a fax modem), can't one use the fax for simple copying? Or does thermal paper fade or something? While we're at it, can we do printers again? All the Mac people, what have you got? My beloved GCC has bit the dust after going 10 times longer than the MTBF rate. Anyone know what that is? Mean Time Between Failures. It lasted almost 6 years, very heavy use. Is a Stylewriter adequate? How long does the ink last? Always interested to know how others manage. Rachel Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:34:33 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: Re: office equipment Different strokes for different indexing folks, I guess. I fax a lot, copy almost never. Faxes I send include: my resume and description of services to potential clients who I just talked to on the phone; letters of agreement ready for clients to sign and fax back; contracts from publishers for me to sign and fax back; sample pages from clients for jobs I'm quoting; second, third, and even fourth copies of invoices that somehow got lost in the client's A/P department; cool stuff to fellow work-at-home-I'm-so-bored-I-could-just-die indexers; orders for software and office supplies; fax-back technical specs and instructions from bulletin boards and product support phone numbers. My fax machine is on the same line as my office telephone, but I have two different phone numbers on that line. My Internet connection is on the home telephone line. (I have two physical lines and three phone numbers). So, I can fax while I'm on the 'Net; clients can call me while I'm on the 'Net but not when I'm faxing; I can talk to Mom and fax a client; but I can't fax in my pizza order while talking to a client. I have an HP FAX-700, plain paper, bought the floor model at Best Buy. It is also a copier, but I rarely copy anything. I keep a little box near the fax machine, and everything I fax gets filed--no need to make an additional copy after faxing it. My fax cover sheet says, "Just the fax." Ann Norcross (telling more than anyone ever wanted to know about her faxing habits) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:44:45 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bookindexr Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: office equipment In a message dated 1/16/98 3:37:12 PM Central Standard Time, norcross@IX.NETCOM.COM writes: << So, I can fax while I'm on the 'Net >> Hmm this would be the only reason I would really have to have dedicated fax machine. I live on this thing. ...didn't think of that :) Susan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:52:55 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: office equipment At 03:51 PM 1/16/1998 -0500, Rachel Rice wrote: >I've got a fax modem and in 8 years have only needed to send a fax from >outside my computer 4 times and all of them were to do with buying my condo >just recently, never to do with indexing or editing and which cost a total >of about $20. I've also never needed a copier. Sandy, I'm curious to know >why you recommended a copier. What do you all copy? Paranoia sets in: >should I be copying something I'm not? :-/ And if one is going to get a >freestanding fax after all (as opposed to a fax modem), can't one use the >fax for simple copying? Or does thermal paper fade or something? I have a thermal-paper fax which is just fine, but the paper is icky and the ink does fade over time. So for permanent storage, I'd rather not use it as a copier. The first major piece of office equipment I bought was my copier, and I don't know what I would do without it! I used to do a lot more editing than indexing, and I can't tell you how many times I would copy a chapter or two before mailing them off...just in case. I don't recall ever having a chapter go missing in the mail, but I do remember countless times being able to review a completed editing job and see how I handled a particular problem. This has been a big help. I am a relentless paper-trail-maker as well. I make copies of snail-mail business letters and invoices and other correspondence, even if they are saved somewhere on the hard drive as well. It's far easier to open a file folder in preparation for making a phone call (and have the entire history of the job sitting right there) than it is to scramble through a dozen computer files trying to find what you're looking for. Other people, I know, work differently. Not having to run to the copy shop nearly every day is a godsend for me. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:02:33 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: CHAT/TID Re: web site, temping, Seattle on the cheap, flames (TID means Thread Is Deteriorating, an indication of chatting gone wild. Things are serious at the top of my post, but degenerate into manic laughter and flamage near the bottom. Don't say you weren't warned. No complaints about bandwidth, please and thank you.) Rachel Rice wrote: > Just to let people know that I just got a query from someone directly from > my web site. Cool! Did you get an assignment? > And to think I almost closed it down. I'm up over a thousand > hits, now, too, in less than a year. Course about a fourth of those are me. Are you happy with your Web hosting service? Do they charge a lot extra for a revenue-generating site (as opposed to a personal site)? > Now, to those of you who do some temp work in between indexes (I know I've > seen mention of this from at least one other and I can't remember who), how > do you handle assignments? Do you only take short term ones? What happens > if (I should be so lucky) an index comes in and you're on an assignment? > What if you don't take an assignment and an index slips? How do you juggle > it all? I did temp work for a while, then gave it up for exactly the reasons you are asking about. I could not find short-term assignments--or assignments where it didn't matter if I had to stop after a few days. We seem to have lots of 3-6 month positions around here, but I'm not having much luck finding 3-6 day assignments. I think if I were qualified to substitute teach, I would be able to fill in a day here and a day there, but I'm not, so I can't. (Grammar question: Should that read: "...if I was qualified...." in the sentence above? That's one of those tenses I have a terrible problem with. What is it called, please? Any grammarians out there?) When I have a week or two off, I spend it 1) worrying, 2) doing laundry and grocery shopping, 3) trying not to worry, and 4) more marketing. > I've just finished an index and feel I have learned a lot about subentries > in the past few weeks from you all. I made some significant changes > (hopefully improvements) to the way I do things in this one, and feel like > I am finally getting to be a better indexer. I wish I had more work so I > could practice more. Is anyone else in a slump? I got no responses from a > mega-marketing session. Very discouraged. And, I've just decided I can't go > to Seattle due to no money for airfare, food, shelter, courses, fees, etc. > Very very sad. I'm thinking very, very seriously about staying in a hotel or motel near the airport ($30-$60 a night) rather than downtown ($150+ per night). A cab twice a day can't possibly add up to as much as the price of the expensive hotels. Also, check with Northwest airlines; they're having some specials. Looks like about $300 round trip. Eat cheap (go to grocery stores rather than restaurants). I'm planning to do it that way; are you sure you can't swing it the cheapskate way? We could share cabs and stay in the same sleazy hotel and make Psycho shower sounds through the walls to each other! > I feel I really need the experience and practice. Oh well, > Can't Go, that's that. Rachel, dear... "that" is *never* "THAT." :-) If you give a workshop or presentation, part of the conference fees are waived. What could you talk about? (It might be too late for this; check with the conference people... Lori??) > Somebody say something to cheer me up. Can we have another flame war? Whheeeeeeeeeeee! Wahhhahahhhhaaaahahahahahahahahhahaaaaa! I can't believe you said that!! I felt the same way after a while. Then I got tired of it. I'm about ready to read some more, though... > That > was endlessly amusing to me. I was sorry it was over so quick. Can't > believe I admitted that, but it's true. What does that say about me? I don't know, but whatever it is saying is being said about me, too. Thanks for your honesty. But... HOW COULD YOU BE SO RUDE AND INCONSIDERATE AS TO MENTION A FLAME WAR ON THIS GROUP!!! Sheesh. DON'T YOU THINK WE'VE HAD ENOUGH TROUBLE AROUND HERE ALREADY?!? (Your real flamers and spammers always use all caps, ya know. Makes it clear how INTERESTING and IMPORTANT their words are). Now... where was I... oh yes... AND ANOTHER THING! WHO SAID YOU COULD TALK ABOUT TEMP WORK HERE, ANYWAY? Ann (trying to flame and failing miserably. Sigh.) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:16:08 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Mullinix Subject: Re: office equipment In-Reply-To: <199801162136.QAA03401@ kis.net> At 04:34 PM 01/16/98 -0500, you wrote: > >My fax machine is on the same line as my office telephone, but I have >two different phone numbers on that line. My Internet connection is >on the home telephone line. (I have two physical lines and three >phone numbers). So, I can fax while I'm on the 'Net; clients can call >me while I'm on the 'Net but not when I'm faxing; I can talk to Mom >and fax a client; but I can't fax in my pizza order while talking to a >client. > >Ann Norcross (telling more than anyone ever wanted to know about her >faxing habits) > > Not more than I ever wanted to know! I had no idea you could have three numbers on two lines. That's great. Thanks for the FAX. Barb Mullinix Beeline Index Writing Service Emmitsburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:55:38 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: Re: office equipment Barbara Mullinix wrote: > Not more than I ever wanted to know! I had no idea you could have three > numbers on two lines. That's great. Thanks for the FAX. The service here (in Bell South land) is called Ring Master. It is designed for families with teenagers. The second phone number on the line rings differently, a double ring instead of a single ring. In some markets this feature is called the Teen Line or Distinctive Ring feature. I added the distinctive ring number to my office phone line, and I give out that number as my fax number. It is charged as a feature on the office line; not as an additional line. The fax number is not listed in the phone book, though it could be listed in my teenager's name if I had a teenager. My fax machine has a Distinctive Ring Recognition feature, which lets the fax machine know when a call is for it to answer. I set the fax machine to answer after one ring. This setting is important because my phonemail service picks up after four rings, and because the phonemail service is attached to the *physical* line (where, you remember, both the fax machine phone number and the office telephone number live). So, if the fax machine lets its distinctive ring go on for four rings, the phonemail service would pick up. Indeed, that's what happens if I turn off the fax machine and someone tries to send a fax. In general, the various call flows go like this: Someone dials my fax number. My office telephone phone and fax machine both say: "ring-ring." Phonemail says: "How many was that? I have to pick up after Four." Fax machine says: "That's for ME!" and picks up the call, exchanging all the necessary little beeps. Fax transmitted. Fax machine hangs up. Later, someone dials my office number. Phone and fax machine say: "ring." Fax machine says: "Not my distinctive double ring. I'm not paying attention." Phonemail says to itself: "How many rings was that?" Phone and fax machine say: "ring. ring. ring." Phonemail says: "That's four! I'll get it." Still later, I turn off the fax machine because I'm going to sleep. Someone dials my fax number. Office telephone says: "ring-ring." Phonemail says: "How many was that?" (Phonemail doesn't know--or care--about distinctive ring. It only knows that the line has been rung.) Office telephone says: "ring-ring. ring-ring. ring-ring." Phonemail says: "That's four! I'll get it!" And I wake up to a message on the office phonemail that contains a bunch of beeps followed by "If you'd like to make a call..." messages. Ann (can you tell I used to write telephony software manuals? We never got to write phone dialog, though. Strictly business, those folks; no fun at all.) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:04:47 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: CHAT/TID Re: web site, temping, Seattle on the cheap, flames In-Reply-To: <199801162207.RAA04709@camel16.mindspring.com> RAchel, I mourn your old GCC. I've had mine for 7 years, and use it both from the Mac and the PC. I have no idea what I would do to replace it if it dies, but it keeps going. Re: faxing - I used to try to use the fax modem in my computer, but found half the faxes I received were garbled. I finally bought a real fax machine, and use it to copy things as well. I almost talked myself into a photocopier about 3 weeks ago, and then talked myself out of it. But that could change tomorrow, you know? Re: Seattle and expenses. Go Bed and breakfast! Call Pacific Reservation Service, and find out what they have available for condos and such - 206-784-0539. Ask for something North of the locks. That means north seattle. You will still have to get downtown, but it will be cheaper, and much closer than the airport. Anything in Wallingford or Freemont or Green Lake or the Ravenna neighborhoods would be fun, and could be within walking distances of cafes and such. West Seattle with a view of the water would be way fun, but a little harder to get downtown. You could even come here to Ballard, ya sure you betcha, cause there are buses that go right downtown. I used one of these services and found a great place for my relatives. Jan At 05:02 PM 1/16/98 -0500, you wrote: >(TID means Thread Is Deteriorating, an indication of chatting gone >wild. Things are serious at the top of my post, but degenerate into >manic laughter and flamage near the bottom. Don't say you weren't >warned. No complaints about bandwidth, please and thank you.) > >Rachel Rice wrote: > >> Just to let people know that I just got a query from someone directly from >> my web site. > >Cool! Did you get an assignment? > >> And to think I almost closed it down. I'm up over a thousand >> hits, now, too, in less than a year. Course about a fourth of those are me. > >Are you happy with your Web hosting service? Do they charge a lot >extra for a revenue-generating site (as opposed to a personal site)? > >> Now, to those of you who do some temp work in between indexes (I know I've >> seen mention of this from at least one other and I can't remember who), how >> do you handle assignments? Do you only take short term ones? What happens >> if (I should be so lucky) an index comes in and you're on an assignment? >> What if you don't take an assignment and an index slips? How do you juggle >> it all? > >I did temp work for a while, then gave it up for exactly the reasons >you are asking about. I could not find short-term assignments--or >assignments where it didn't matter if I had to stop after a few days. >We seem to have lots of 3-6 month positions around here, but I'm not >having much luck finding 3-6 day assignments. I think if I were >qualified to substitute teach, I would be able to fill in a day here >and a day there, but I'm not, so I can't. > >(Grammar question: Should that read: "...if I was qualified...." in >the sentence above? That's one of those tenses I have a terrible >problem with. What is it called, please? Any grammarians out there?) > >When I have a week or two off, I spend it 1) worrying, 2) doing >laundry and grocery shopping, 3) trying not to worry, and 4) more >marketing. > >> I've just finished an index and feel I have learned a lot about subentries >> in the past few weeks from you all. I made some significant changes >> (hopefully improvements) to the way I do things in this one, and feel like >> I am finally getting to be a better indexer. I wish I had more work so I >> could practice more. Is anyone else in a slump? I got no responses from a >> mega-marketing session. Very discouraged. And, I've just decided I can't go >> to Seattle due to no money for airfare, food, shelter, courses, fees, etc. >> Very very sad. > >I'm thinking very, very seriously about staying in a hotel or motel >near the airport ($30-$60 a night) rather than downtown ($150+ per >night). A cab twice a day can't possibly add up to as much as the >price of the expensive hotels. Also, check with Northwest airlines; >they're having some specials. Looks like about $300 round trip. Eat >cheap (go to grocery stores rather than restaurants). I'm planning to >do it that way; are you sure you can't swing it the cheapskate way? >We could share cabs and stay in the same sleazy hotel and make Psycho >shower sounds through the walls to each other! > >> I feel I really need the experience and practice. Oh well, >> Can't Go, that's that. > >Rachel, dear... "that" is *never* "THAT." :-) > >If you give a workshop or presentation, part of the conference fees >are waived. What could you talk about? (It might be too late for >this; check with the conference people... Lori??) > >> Somebody say something to cheer me up. Can we have another flame war? > >Whheeeeeeeeeeee! Wahhhahahhhhaaaahahahahahahahahhahaaaaa! I can't >believe you said that!! I felt the same way after a while. Then I got >tired of it. I'm about ready to read some more, though... > >> That >> was endlessly amusing to me. I was sorry it was over so quick. Can't >> believe I admitted that, but it's true. What does that say about me? > >I don't know, but whatever it is saying is being said about me, too. >Thanks for your honesty. > >But... HOW COULD YOU BE SO RUDE AND INCONSIDERATE AS TO MENTION A >FLAME WAR ON THIS GROUP!!! Sheesh. DON'T YOU THINK WE'VE HAD ENOUGH >TROUBLE AROUND HERE ALREADY?!? > >(Your real flamers and spammers always use all caps, ya know. Makes >it clear how INTERESTING and IMPORTANT their words are). > >Now... where was I... oh yes... AND ANOTHER THING! WHO SAID YOU COULD >TALK ABOUT TEMP WORK HERE, ANYWAY? > >Ann (trying to flame and failing miserably. Sigh.) > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:55:47 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DP1301 Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: office equipment I went into Staples a couple weeks ago to send a fax. I'd been cruising office supply stores and reading Consumer Reports, etc. during the fall but everything either cost too much or did too much. Why I thought I'd find one now... but I wandered over to look at them one more time and this one model jumped up and said -- did you overlook me?? It's a Brother Personal 190 that can operate with just one phone line and it can share that one line with an answering machine. It's a thermal fax (yuk) but it came with a roll of paper that is a step up from the worst of that stuff. It was less than $200 and I only need a fax occasionally so I didn't want lots of features -- I just want to get that missing page or whatever. It also copies. I bought it thinking I could somehow connect it in the same loop with my computer -- but that didn't finally work. I now have the computer and a phone in my office (back bedroom upstairs) and the answering machine and fax downstairs. Both answering machine and fax are set to activate after 4 rings because I am mostly here all the time. I could set the fax to 2 rings and it would monitor everything -- releasing a telephone call to the answering machine or probaly to me. I also understand I could pick up an extension mid-fax and the fax would not be interrupted. The trick to get it to work when it's set to 4 rings is that the fax sender has to punch in a code to "manually" send the fax. But it works and I still only have one telephone line. Maybe I could set the fax to activate after 2 rings but I want to be in control and not have it squeal in someone's ear. This one is a terrific solution for me. Deborah ==================== Deborah Patton, Indexer Baltimore, MD dp1301@aol.com 410/243-4688 (phone and fax!!) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:54:44 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dwight Walker Subject: WWWalker Web Indexing - how the course will be run WWWalker Web Indexing Course - FAQ (http://www.wwwalker.com.au/webfaq.html) We hope this answers your questions. Please email us if you want to know more. Here is a reply to a recent question (17 Jan 1998): We are still a bit confused as to how exactly the course will be presented and the amount of interaction we will have with those persons presenting the course and/or other persons taking the course. I see that the course runs over two weeks but I'm not sure of how much time in hours per day is to be expected. 1) ICQ Chat Sessions - Seeing What Others are Saying - the 'Class Room' I will host an ICQ chat session where several people at once can see each other's comments. I will use a Web site tutorial to guide the students in the flow of the class (each person can have it open in their browser). Also with ICQ chat people can send messages, files and URLs to each other. ICQ chat logs will be saved and mounted on the Web site for later reference too. 2) The Browser and the Web as a Big BlackBoard Bulletin Board People can post to a bulletin board page on the tutorial Web site which we will have setup (this will be fully automated using CGI scripts). Class members can refresh this page to see what others have submitted during the class. Others in the class can announce when they have uploaded material onto the bulletin board through ICQ chat so that the others can look at it in their leisure. Sharing Work Also I will have a class Web area where we can pool results and look at them. Each member will have their own page which they can update. Others can read each other's work in their browsers during the class and afterwards when they are studying. This will the create the illusion of a classroom without any walls! Out of Class Tutorials I plan to draw up interactive tutorials too that will allow class members to read up points not covered in the online tutorials. Many of the rich resources on the Web will be listed. These tutorials will be referred to as we go in the class room too. 3) Getting into it - One-on-One using Cheap Phone Calls For the beginners I will use Internet Phone to ring them up on their normal phone and get them started. Often email and chat cannot bridge the gap speaking to them live can do! 4) Class Times to be announced - Coordinating the Difference in Time Zones The classes will not be daily. There will be ones say Monday, Thursday and Saturday of each week. The assessment will be over say a week to allow for work at home. Times and dates will be setup once I know where people are and what their schedules are - there are several time zones involved here, the biggest difference being between USA and Eastern Australia. You are about 15 to 18 hours behind Sydney so I will have to adjust my class times to that. The classes will run for a maximum of 2 hours. Because the students will all be coming from different levels of expertise I will have to spend more time with people not used to HTML and indexing. Cheers Dwight Walker WWWalker Web Development ---------------------------------------------------------- Dwight Walker, Sydney, Australia tel +61-2-98902691, mob 0412-405727, fax +61-2-97772058 ICQ No. 4631678, handle: wwwalker (www.mirabilis.com) WWWalker Web Development: http://www.wwwalker.com.au Australian Society of Indexers: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi Sydney Linux Users Group: http://www.slug.org.au Waverley Randwick Philharmonic http://www.wwwalker.com.au/wrps.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 21:19:04 -0600 Reply-To: bookend@theonramp.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Danzi Hernandez Subject: Re: Grammar question Ann wrote: I think if I were > qualified to substitute teach, I would be able to fill in a day here > and a day there, but I'm not, so I can't. > > (Grammar question: Should that read: "...if I was qualified...." in > the sentence above? That's one of those tenses I have a terrible > problem with. What is it called, please? Any grammarians out there?) > As used here, "were" is the past subjunctive case and is used in clauses that are clearly hypothetical or contrary to fact, sometimes expressing a wish or desire ("If I were a rich man, La di la di da di da di da di da"). So you used it correctly. And, no, I didn't know all that off the top of my head, though I did remember the "expressing a wish or desire" part. To tie this into indexing, I'll end with "I hope this helps"! Susan Hernandez ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 22:41:55 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: Re: Grammar question Susan Danzi Hernandez wrote: > > Ann wrote: > > I think if I were > > qualified to substitute teach, I would be able to fill in a day here > > and a day there, but I'm not, so I can't. > > > > (Grammar question: Should that read: "...if I was qualified...." in > > the sentence above? That's one of those tenses I have a terrible > > problem with. What is it called, please? Any grammarians out there?) > > > As used here, "were" is the past subjunctive case and is used in > clauses that are clearly hypothetical or contrary to fact, sometimes > expressing a wish or desire ("If I were a rich man, La di la di da di da di > da di da"). So you used it correctly. And, no, I didn't know all that off > the top of my head, though I did remember the "expressing a wish or desire" > part. Thank you. I appreciate your looking it up. I hate not knowing the names of things, especially word things. Soooo, is there a similar construction with "was?" And what would that be called? Ann ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 02:43:24 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Brayton, Colin (IBK-NY)" Subject: Re: Grammar question What worries ME, grammarwise, is the verb "to substitute teach," meaning "to work as a substitute teacher." cbrayton merrill lynch > -----Original Message----- > From: Ann Norcross [SMTP:norcross@IX.NETCOM.COM] > Sent: Friday, January 16, 1998 10:42 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Grammar question > > Susan Danzi Hernandez wrote: > > > > Ann wrote: > > > > I think if I were > > > qualified to substitute teach, I would be able to fill in a day > here > > > and a day there, but I'm not, so I can't. > > > > > > (Grammar question: Should that read: "...if I was qualified...." > in > > > the sentence above? That's one of those tenses I have a terrible > > > problem with. What is it called, please? Any grammarians out > there?) > > > > > As used here, "were" is the past subjunctive case and is used > in > > clauses that are clearly hypothetical or contrary to fact, sometimes > > expressing a wish or desire ("If I were a rich man, La di la di da > di da di > > da di da"). So you used it correctly. And, no, I didn't know all > that off > > the top of my head, though I did remember the "expressing a wish or > desire" > > part. > > Thank you. I appreciate your looking it up. I hate not knowing the > names of things, especially word things. Soooo, is there a similar > construction with "was?" And what would that be called? > > Ann ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:46:39 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: CHAT: going away Just to tell everyone who emailed me that I'm going away for the weekend and will reply to you all next week when I'm home doing nothing waiting for the phone to ring (don't worry I'll do some marketing and all that good stuff). I absolutely can't believe how many of you admit to secretly enjoying the flame wars. Don't worry. I'm a confidentiality specialist. Wonder if there's a way to get paid for that. Oh yes, it's called BLACKMAIL. . . See you all Tuesday, and thanks for the support. It really has helped. Rachel Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 08:49:29 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Mac Printers Rachel asks: >>While we're at it, can we do printers again? All the Mac people, what have you got?<< I'm a Mac user. I have an HP DeskWriter and am delighted with it. It's about 4 years old. Very high reliability and excellent software support. HP sent me a disk to upgrade system software at a time when downloading upgrades from the web was not common. On the basis of my experience my wife bought an HP DeskJet for her PC and is quite pleased with it. Ink jet cartridges last me about 3-4 months each on a volume of 2-3 indexes per month and accompanying correspondence. The cartridge costs about $23. Regarding fax machines, I use the software that came with the Mac's modem to send and receive faxes as necessary. The modem and software are by Global Village. True, I lack the capability to sign a faxed letter (although I can drop a scanned signature onto a document if absolutely necessary), and I prefer to set the fax to receive manually rather than let it contend with other telephone users. (Don't believe it recognizes distinctive ring.) But for my volume (15 faxes in and out for 1997) I can't justify the purchase of a freestanding fax. YMMV. Craig Brown ========================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing (314)352-9094 www.i1.net/~lastword ========================================== ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 09:57:07 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Noeline Bridge Subject: Re: Grammar question Wearing my editor's hat, I think that the acceptability of the verb "to substitute teach" is a matter of usage rather than grammar. It is rather ugly, one of those shortcut compounds best confined to conversation. "To work as a substitute teacher" seems rather a long way around it; "to do substitute teaching" would, I think, suit the purpose. Noeline Bridge BRIDGEWORK nbridge@planet.eon.net 10979 123 Street Edmonton, AB T5M 0E1 Canada phone 403-452-8325 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 14:03:27 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Parrish Subject: Re: Grammar question 2 " As used here, "were" is the past subjunctive case and is used in > clauses that are clearly hypothetical or contrary to fact, sometimes > expressing a wish or desire ("If I were a rich man, La di la di da di da di > da di da"). Ann Norcross asks: "Soooo, is there a similar construction with "was?" And what would that be called?" You would use the past tense of the indicative mood if you were expressing uncertainty but not wishfulness or something contrary to fact: "If our family was poor, we did not know it then." Or "If I was there when the shot was fired, I did not hear it." Ann ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 11:33:23 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: HUMOR Re: office equipment In-Reply-To: <199801162100.NAA17761@mail-gw3.pacbell.net> OK. I couldn't resist posting this joke (from the CircleJoke list this morning) with all of the talk about fax and telephone setups going on. Warning: it's sophomoric bathroom humor, so I'm providing a huge amount of spoiler space so those who'd rather not read it can move on without seeing it. And though I, too, enjoy a good donnybrook, my flamethrower is temporarily out of propane. ;-D Those of you who want to read it, scroll down. ...Lynn You have been warned. Couldn't resist, eh? >Subject: Modern Technology > >A guy walks into a bar and sits down. He starts dialing numbers... like a >telephone... on his hand, then puts his palm up against his cheek and begins >talking. Suspicious, the bartender walks over and tells him this is a very >tough neighborhood and he doesn't need any trouble here. > >The guy says, "You don't understand. I'm very hi-tech. I had a phone >installed in my hand because I was tired of carrying the cellular." > >The bartender says "Prove it." > >The guy dials up a number and hands his hand to the bartender. The >bartender talks into the hand and carries on a conversation."That's >incredible!" says the bartender. "I would never have believed it!" > >"Yeah", said the guy, "I can keep in touch with my broker, my wife, you name >it. By the way, where is the men's room?" > >The bartender directs him to the men's room. The guy goes in and 5, 10, 20 >minutes go by and he doesn't return. Fearing the worst given the >neighborhood, the bartender goes into the men's room to check on the guy. >The guy is spread-eagled up against the wall. His pants are pulled down and >he has a roll of toilet paper up his butt. > >"Oh my god!" said the bartender. "Did they rob you? Are you hurt?" > >The guy turns and says: "No, no, I'm ok. I'm just waiting for a fax." ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:21:22 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: office equipment In-Reply-To: <199801170504.XAA11647@mixcom.mixcom.com> Think also about machines that can do more than one task. I assume you already have a modem, or you wouldn't be subscribed to Index-L. Check your modem literature to see whether it will also send and receive faxes. I've got a Zoom V.32bis modem that does faxes, so I didn't need to buy a separate fax machine. The software I have is tricky to use (at least to receive faxes), because I don't have a dedicated fax phone line, so I had to type of all the steps and put them by my computer. It's not fun to use, but it does work, and since I don't fax that often, I couldn't really justify the expense of buying a fax machine or a copy/fax machine. I did buy a scanner (for other purposes), so I use that when I need to fax a hard page. >I believe Janet's advice to be perfect, but will elaborate. My experience >has been that it's best to buy dedicated equipment. A simple fax is >prefereable to a multifunction unit because you will not lose the ability >to fax, if the printer goes out and vice versa. > >Cameras make the best cameras. Camera-headlight combos (imagimary example) >usually combine a poor camera with a poor headlight. Although that is sometimes the case, if you buy equipment that has gotten raves reviews, then that's not really an issue. If I bought a high-end Minolta that could do some other things, too, I'd be pretty confident I was still getting a good camera. But another issue here is office space. If you have limited space (desk space for me is always a problem), then multifunctional machines help. Rachel wrote: >While we're at it, can we do printers again? All the Mac people, what have >you got? I started off with a LaserWriter Select 300, which prints beautifully. But then I discovered that the toner cartridges were so darn expensive that it was actually cheaper to buy an inkjet to use for drafts and other nonessential printing. (I've been on the same toner cartridge for about 2 yrs. now!) So I found a Color StyleWriter 2400 for around $200 (I think they're less now). Both machines are Apple printers. It's hard to say how long the ink cartridge lasts, because I do so many things with it--some weeks a lot, some weeks a little. At least a month anyway. The small black cartridges are about $6, but you can buy a refilling kit and make the cartridge last longer. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 14:57:23 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: BethJT Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: office equipment In a message dated 1/16/98 3:59:39 PM, Rachel wrote: >While we're at it, can we do printers again? All the Mac people, what have >you got? My beloved GCC has bit the dust after going 10 times longer than >the MTBF rate. Anyone know what that is? Mean Time Between Failures. It >lasted almost 6 years, very heavy use. Is a Stylewriter adequate? How long >does the ink last? I have a Stylewriter II ( an old model of Stylewriter) which produces very good copy and is very reliable but it does suck down the cartridges (at $21.00 a pop). With the newer, less expensive laser printers whose cartridges last much longer, you might want to check out purchasing a laser printer. I've seen those as low as $300 or $400. Good luck. Beth ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 14:53:31 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Caroline Parks Subject: supplies for marking pages In-Reply-To: <199801171959.MAA08309@Rt66.com> Some time ago there was a thread on the various methods we all use (and don't use) to mark pages. Someone mentioned that they used Topstar dry highlighter pencils by Staedtler, which I believe I'd just discovered at the time. Now I'm totally hooked on them! Unfortunately, nobody here in Albuquerque is carrying them now, and the university bookstore, which tried to order them for me, seems to be having trouble getting them in. If anyone has run across a reliable source for these, could you send it to me privately? Or if you've seen them in a local store, could you send me their phone number so I can order them directly? I'd be happy to order a box of each color, just to be sure I'll have them around for a while! TIA, Caroline ____________________________ Caroline Parks -- Indexcellence Indexing and Editorial Services Tijeras, NM 505-286-2738 caroline@rt66.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 17:06:11 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: BethJT Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Cindex for the Mac I'm having some difficulties with Cindex for the Mac1.0 and figured one of you fine folks would be able to help. 1. Everytime I try to use the Cindex Updater (that is supposed to update my program), it craters and says that it cannot update. I contacted the Index Research people about it when it came out but they never came up with a satisfactory answer (just that it didn't work). What did the updater do? Is it worth trying to follow up with again? 2. Cindex won't spellcheck my documents. Every time I try to run the spellchecker I get an error message saying that it can't find the main dictionary. The English dictionary is right there in the same folder where its should be. I've tried reinstalling Cindex but just end up with the same problem. I've been making text files and then checking the spelling in Word but would like to get Cindex to do its thing. 3. I'm a little confused about how Cindex makes text files for other computers. I have publishers who want files in Microsoft Word for Windows or Wordperfect. Will Cindex make such files or just generic text files for Windows? Any help is much appreciated. Thanks, Beth ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 17:50:13 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah H Lemaire Subject: Re: Mac Printers In-Reply-To: <199801171449.AA29064@world.std.com> I would also vote for HP printers. I've had one for my Mac and one for my PC. I got some support on installing the PC version when problems arose. The guy on the end of the phone couldn't have been nicer. They're reliable, easy to get supplies for at the local stationary store. My only complaint about the PC version is that it's a bit noisy. The noise it makes when it runs out of paper make you think the printer is having a heart attack. Sarah ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:44:15 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: Re: supplies for marking pages Caroline Parks wrote: > > Some time ago there was a thread on the various methods we all use (and > don't use) to mark pages. Someone mentioned that they used Topstar dry > highlighter pencils by Staedtler, which I believe I'd just discovered at > the time. Now I'm totally hooked on them! > > Unfortunately, nobody here in Albuquerque is carrying them now, and the > university bookstore, which tried to order them for me, seems to be having > trouble getting them in. If anyone has run across a reliable source for > these, could you send it to me privately? Or if you've seen them in a > local store, could you send me their phone number so I can order them > directly? I'd be happy to order a box of each color, just to be sure I'll > have them around for a while! Haven't seen these, but Levenger ( http://www.levenger.com ) sells something called a Textliner Dry by Faber-Castell. Ann ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:46:48 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: Re: Grammar question 2 Ann Parrish wrote: > > " As used here, "were" is the past subjunctive case and is used in > > clauses that are clearly hypothetical or contrary to fact, sometimes > > expressing a wish or desire ("If I were a rich man, La di la di da di da di > > da di da"). > Ann Norcross asks: "Soooo, is there a similar > construction with "was?" And what would that be called?" > > You would use the past tense of the indicative mood if you were expressing > uncertainty but not wishfulness or something contrary to fact: "If our > family was poor, we did not know it then." Or "If I was there when the shot > was fired, I did not hear it." Thank you, thank you. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:50:30 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: Re: Grammar question Noeline Bridge wrote: > > Wearing my editor's hat, I think that the acceptability of the verb "to > substitute teach" is a matter of usage rather than grammar. It is rather > ugly, one of those shortcut compounds best confined to conversation. "To > work as a substitute teacher" seems rather a long way around it; "to do > substitute teaching" would, I think, suit the purpose. Ah, good point. Would it be more acceptable if hyphenated: "to substitute-teach" or is that just a further abomination? :-) Perhaps just "to substitute at the high school" would have done it. Ann ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:49:17 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: WordenDex Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: supplies for marking pages Yahoo gave these sites: http://www.staedtler.com/english/bestseller/topstar.htm http://www.topstar.net/feedback.htm The second one will take orders for the product/s you want. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 17:29:29 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Noeline Bridge Subject: Re: Grammar question Yes, Ann, if I were to write "substitute teach," I would hyphenate it. (Also note use of the subjunctive! :-) ) Noeline Bridge BRIDGEWORK nbridge@planet.eon.net 10979 123 Street Edmonton, AB T5M 0E1 Canada phone 403-452-8325 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 21:00:59 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "S. Greenhouse" Subject: For M. Tumber (sorry to list) List - Please accept profuse apologies. We just got a new computer (do I look different?) and I'm on the steep part of the learning curve. M. Tumber - please write me again - my old (bad) computer ate your email address. Thanks - Shelley Greenhouse ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 12:00:36 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Mullinix Subject: Re: office equipment In-Reply-To: <199801171954.OAA20855@ kis.net> At 12:21 PM 01/17/98 -0600, you wrote: >I started off with a LaserWriter Select 300, which prints beautifully. But >then I discovered that the toner cartridges were so darn expensive that it >was actually cheaper to buy an inkjet to use for drafts and other >nonessential printing. (I've been on the same toner cartridge for about 2 >yrs. now!) So I found a Color StyleWriter 2400 for around $200 (I think >they're less now). Both machines are Apple printers. There are services that refill laser printer cartridges; so, if you have two, you can be using one while the other is out for refilling. I don't have a laser, but an office I worked in used a local service here in Frederick. I think the cost was about half that of a new cartridge. (I could get exact facts tomorrow if anybody really wants to know.) Barb Mullinix Beeline Index Writing Service Emmitsburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:22:17 CST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Gerry McKiernan Subject: News Items for _Journal of Internet Cataloging_ News Items for _Journal of Internet Cataloging_ For my next _New from the Field_ column for _The Journal of Internet Cataloging: The International Quarterly of Digital Organization, Classification, and Access_ I would much appreciate any and all news items about current or planned efforts for organizing or providing enhanced access to Internet and Web resources. I am particularly interested in summaries of relevant presentations, workshops, discussions, and/or programs held at the recent ALA mid-winter conference held in New Orleans. Reports of other relevant programs at other professional library, information science or computer science conferences are also of interest. I am also interested in: *** Citations to relevant published research projects notably journal articles or conference proceedings *** Relevant research project descriptions notably institutional or personal activities *** Forthcoming conference or symposium announcements *** Other relevant activities As always, any and all items are most welcome. Regards, Gerry McKiernan Curator, CyberStacks(sm) Iowa State University Ames IA 50011 gerrymck@iastate.edu http://www.public.iastate.edu/~CYBERSTACKS/ "The Best WAy to Predict the Future is To Invent It!" Attributed to Peter Drucker ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 12:42:27 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: AllWrite N Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: web site and temping Rachel, Just remember how far you've come since Hancock School...THAT should cheer you up! You have talent and skills, you have a roof over your head, and 'children' and friends and family who love you. You are simply relearning how to cope and move forward in a new environment since your move. Keep focused on your main goal to index more, take short-term temping jobs and push your marketing of yourself. You will find your feet soon and hit your stride. I know it! Plus, you can always call me! Hang in there. Nancy ;) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 12:55:21 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: AllWrite N Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: office equipment Pamela, If you have Windows 95 on your PC you have the ability to receive faxes via your modem. They will be received in your mail center's 'In Box' where you can view them and even print them from your printer. The better the quality of the fax transmitted to you, the better quality printout you will have (which is also true if you went out and bought a fax machine, so there's little to recommend shelling out the extra money). You can't handwrite a signature on a contract that you intend to create and fax from your PC, but you can use an 'x' with your name printed after it to transmit back to the client and drop the signed one in the mail. This should save you money. Hope it helps. Nancy Noyes All Write ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 12:29:26 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kamm Y. Schreiner" Subject: Re: office equipment snip >There are services that refill laser printer cartridges; so, if you have >two, you can be using one while the other is out for refilling. I don't >have a laser, but an office I worked in used a local service here in >Frederick. I think the cost was about half that of a new cartridge. (I >could get exact facts tomorrow if anybody really wants to know.) snip Yes, these are very cost effective and I have used refilled cartridges many times in the past. A cautionary note however, is that every refilled cartridge I have ever used did not have the same quality of print as a new cartridge. It was pretty good, but clearly not "as" good. If the print quality is not a concern then I would highly recommend the refilled cartridges. Sincerely, Kamm Schreiner President SKY Software 4675 York Rd #1 Lineboro, MD 21102 email: kamm@sky-software.com phone: 800-776-0137 -------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 14:06:29 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Tech writer roundtable I will be doing a roundtable in Seattle about indexing for technical writers. That is, tips for tech writers who want to index their own writings. For those who would be interested in such a topic, what would you like from the roundtable: - An opportunity to share your own experiences with the subject? - Instruction on the subject? - Other? Please reply to: mailto:infodex@mindspring.com Dick ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 14:11:50 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: WordenDex Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: office equipment Are toner cartridges refillable for Epson Action Laser 1500 printers, and if so, where? Diane in Kazoo ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 15:09:49 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bookindexr Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: office equipment In a message dated 98-01-18 12:56:50 EST, Nancy writes: << The better the quality of the fax transmitted to you, the better quality printout you will have >> I have a 1000 dpi laser printer. When a fax is created on computer and faxed to me the quality is 1000 dpi can't beat that with a stand alone fax machine. By the way, I bought this printer because they were discontinuing this style. I got a really good deal on it. At the time, about two years ago, they had several hundred left...not sure right now if they have any. E-mail me if anyone is interested. I can't remember exactly how much they were selling for originally something like $1000.00 but they were on closeout for $400.00 which I know is a lot when you can get a ink just for $200 - $300....but I also have a inkjet for color printing at the shop I paid about $350 for. It boost of being able to do up to 1440 dpt quality....not so...My 1000 dpi looks ten times better. I use the 1000 dpi for producing original art to shoot from and the color ink jet just for color proofing and as a back up at the shop. The difference in quality is visible to the naked eye and they look like night and day under a magnifying glass. The downfall to this printer is they only have fax support because it is on closeout. I did have one problem with it luckily my hubby is mechanically inclined and figured out what was wrong and fixed it. I never did hear anything from the fax I had sent them. But it was worth the chance to me for the quality at such a low price. I haven't had any problem since then and it's been over a year. In a message dated 98-01-18 13:10:19 EST, Kamm writes: It does up to 8 1/2 x 14 size, black toner. It uses a HP cartage...by the way are all toner cartages refillable? I can't remember the exact price of my cartage..seems like it runs around $60 - $70. I could switch cartages from the new one to the refilled for jobs I don't need the quality like proofing and for indexing if the quality isn't too bad. However with as much typesetting I do this cartage has last 8 months and there is not any signs of it getting low yet. I do a minimum of 4 - 5 jobs a day and send out several proofs of each one before I am satisfied with it. But if there is a way to save a buck...why not. In a message dated 98-01-18 12:56:50 EST, Nancy writes: That's a good idea..but I wonder if it is legal to have your signature scanned into a eps file (or any file that can be imported into other programs) so that you can just use the "place" feature of your software and put you signature on your document before faxing it? I know there are places that will scan picture and such and put them on a disk for you for less than $10.00. That would illimnate one of the major needs for a stand alone fax or a scanner until you could afford them. Susan ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 15:43:38 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: BethJT Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re Cindex for the Mac I just wanted everyone to know that I have gotten my questions answered promptly and efficiently by Francis Lennie of Index Research. She called on Sunday afternoon to make sure that I got the help I needed. Three cheers for Francis and the Cindex folks. Beth > I'm having some difficulties with Cindex for the Mac1.0 and figured one of you > fine folks would be able to help. > > 1. Everytime I try to use the Cindex Updater (that is supposed to update my > program), it craters and says that it cannot update. I contacted the Index > Research people about it when it came out but they never came up with a > satisfactory answer (just that it didn't work). What did the updater do? Is > it worth trying to follow up with again? > > 2. Cindex won't spellcheck my documents. Every time I try to run the > spellchecker I get an error message saying that it can't find the main > dictionary. The English dictionary is right there in the same folder where > its should be. I've tried reinstalling Cindex but just end up with the same > problem. I've been making text files and then checking the spelling in Word > but would like to get Cindex to do its thing. > > 3. I'm a little confused about how Cindex makes text files for other > computers. I have publishers who want files in Microsoft Word for Windows or > Wordperfect. Will Cindex make such files or just generic text files for > Windows? > > Any help is much appreciated. > Thanks, > > Beth ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 13:30:50 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Caroline Parks Subject: Re: supplies for marking pages In-Reply-To: <199801172346.QAA03676@Rt66.com> At 06:44 PM 1/17/98 -0500, you wrote: >Caroline Parks wrote: >> >> Some time ago there was a thread on the various methods we all use (and >> don't use) to mark pages. Someone mentioned that they used Topstar dry >> highlighter pencils by Staedtler, which I believe I'd just discovered at >> the time. Now I'm totally hooked on them! >> > >Haven't seen these, but Levenger ( http://www.levenger.com ) sells >something called a Textliner Dry by Faber-Castell. > >Ann Thanks, all! I should have mentioned I'd already checked on the Web, and emailed Staedtler's usa rep (no answer yet), but I hadn't thought of Levenger. I'll definitely give these a try. (BTW, the "www.topstar.net" URL posted by someone else was for little animal toys...cute, but not quite what I need at the moment! Thanks anyway ;D ) ____________________________ Caroline Parks -- Indexcellence Indexing and Editorial Services Tijeras, NM 505-286-2738 caroline@rt66.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 17:50:20 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: BVLDais Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: office equipment Diane, If you find that Epson Action Laser 1500 cartridges are refillable, could you let me know?! I was SHOCKED to find the price of a replacement back about a year ago. I paid it but was very sorry I'd even purchased the printer! Great printer but sad that Epson feels they have to make so much money on them...down the road! Virginia Dais BVLDais@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:53:32 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Cindex for the Mac In-Reply-To: <199801180501.XAA00960@mixcom.mixcom.com> >1. Everytime I try to use the Cindex Updater (that is supposed to update my >program), it craters and says that it cannot update. I contacted the Index >Research people about it when it came out but they never came up with a >satisfactory answer (just that it didn't work). What did the updater do? Is >it worth trying to follow up with again? I've been using Cindex for Mac for some time now and haven't come across or used the updater. So perhaps you don't need it after all. Interesting. > >2. Cindex won't spellcheck my documents. Every time I try to run the >spellchecker I get an error message saying that it can't find the main >dictionary. The English dictionary is right there in the same folder where >its should be. I've tried reinstalling Cindex but just end up with the same >problem. I've been making text files and then checking the spelling in Word >but would like to get Cindex to do its thing. Yes, it should do a spellcheck. I assume that the English dictionary is in the Cindex folder on your hard drive? OK, try this: go into your preferences folder (in your System folder) and drag your Cindex preferences file into the trash; then reinstall Cindex, which will create a new Cindex preferences file (like doing a clean install for Cindex). Often when you reinstall a program, the computer replaces only what's new. If the preferences file is corrupted, it won't get fixed when you reinstall unless you first trash the previous one. Good luck. I'd be interested to hear whether this worked. > >3. I'm a little confused about how Cindex makes text files for other >computers. I have publishers who want files in Microsoft Word for Windows or >Wordperfect. Will Cindex make such files or just generic text files for >Windows? When I want to save Cindex files in MS Word, I first save it as an RTF file. Then I open it in MS Word. On my system, that makes it a Word 5.1 file for Mac. Within Word, I can save the file in a variety of formats, including Word for Windows and WordPerfect. All I have to do is a "save as" and choose the format I want from the pull-down menu within the "save as" window. If you want to keep a copy in Word-for-Mac format, just make sure to give the document a slightly different name when you "save as," e.g., "index.Win" or "index.WP" or whatever. I hope this helps. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:14:39 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: Cindex for the Mac Carol Roberts wrote, in part: >>I've been using Cindex for Mac for some time now and haven't come across or used the updater. So perhaps you don't need it after all. Interesting.<< It is how Indexing Research distributes fixes to minor problems with Mac Cindex. I cannot remember what little tiny bug I had encountered with Cindex but they told me to get the latest updater. You download the file from their web site and once that is done, double-click it open. It acts much like installer software. (In fact, the package which performs the update is made by the Vise people who do a lot of Mac installers.) Anyhow, once it's open it installs some new coding or instructions in your actual program. I believe it analyzes the fix level you're at and installs all the prior fixes. Whether you need it or not depends on whether or not you've encountered a program bug you can't live with. Craig Brown ========================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing (314)352-9094 www.i1.net/~lastword ========================================== ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 15:12:20 -0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Liza Weinkove Subject: Re: Medical acronyms The following info on a downloadable utility containing medical acronyms was posted on EDline (a discussion group for editors). I have tried it out briefly, and it looks as if it might be useful for medical indexers, so with Kathleen's permission I'm forwarding it to Index-L. << From: Kathleen Lyle, Kathleen@klyle.demon.co.uk On hunting for some medical abbreviations on the Web I have just come across a useful little utility I hadn't noticed before, downloadable from www.ncemi.org/tla It is a searchable database of medical acronyms and abbreviations (TLA = 3-letter acronym), available in Win95 and 3.1 versions. You can edit the list and add entries either singly or by adding a .txt file. The list of abbreviations is held as a simple text file which is easy to edit anyway - but for one's own use only, according to the terms of the licence. >> Liza liza.weinkove@zen.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:42:22 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Web Publication: Getty Thesaurus of Geographic Names This was just released and mentioned on the American Name Society discussion list (ANS-L): Introducing the Getty Thesaurus of Geographic Names* (at http://www.gii.getty.edu/tgn_browser) The Getty Information Institute is pleased to announce the release of its latest vocabulary tool, the Getty Thesaurus of Geographic Names* (TGN). Described as *an important and promising start in efforts to create a unified source for geographic name information around the globe* the TGN is intended to be a source of geographic names for documenting and retrieving cultural heritage information. For example, geographic names may be used to record the current location of an art object, its place of origin and the sites of an artist's birth, activity and death. The TGN is the product of eight years of research and is based on data provided by several Getty projects. The nearly 900,000 places in the TGN are arranged in a hierarchical structure representing all nations of the modern world. This hierarchy is arranged from broader to narrower context (e.g., continents, nations, states, provinces, cities etc.). The TGN provides vernacular and English names of places, variant names in other languages, and whenever possible, historical names. The record for a place may also contain geographical coordinates, dates, and notes. The TGN is available in three formats: on the Web, as tagged ASCII files, and in relational tables. The Web version is available at http://www.gii.getty.edu/tgn_browser. The relational tables and tagged ASCII files will be available under license in early 1998. The TGN will be expanded with the addition of new names and historical places. While we continue to collaborate with various Getty contributors, the growth of the TGN depends on our forming partnerships with other institutions interested in contributing their expertise to the development of the resource. If you are interested in becoming a contributor to the TGN, please contact the Getty Information Institute's Vocabulary Program at (310) 440 6364 or send e-mail to pharpring@getty.edu. Comments and questions about the TGN may be sent to tgn@getty.edu. The Vocabulary Program also plans to host several training sessions on the TGN. If you are interested in training, please e-mail vocab@getty.edu. ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen Freelance Indexer Bertelsen Indexing Services cbertel@usit.net Editor-in-Chief, KEY WORDS, American Society of Indexers Web page: http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 15:45:40 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Subject: New address for gopherized Index-l archives The address for the index-l archives at Georgia Southern University has changed. The Webmasters for indexing society web pages (American, Canadian, Australian) have been notified so it is (or will be shortly) still possible to connect from those pages. Or you can connect by using either of the two following addresses: gopher://gopher.GaSoU.edu:70/11/Georgia%20 Southern%20University/Henderson%20 Library/assistance/Index-L gopher://informer.cc.GaSoU.edu:70/11/Georgia%20Southern%20University/Henders on%20Library/assistance/Index-L Charlotte ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:48:45 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: RHurd44884 Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Editing After the entries have been keyed in, what are the best steps to take next? Check spelling, edit entries etc. Thank you. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 15:54:14 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Editing At 05:48 PM 1/19/1998 EST, RHurd44884 wrote: >After the entries have been keyed in, what are the best steps to take >next? Check spelling, edit entries etc. Thank you. I mostly edit entries while I'm doing the inputting. But if things are fairly complex, I will make a printout of the completed index and check them manually. I hate doing any extensive editing on-screen. I use Macrex, and I import the completed index into WordPerfect to do the spell checking. Note that if you do this, and spelling corrections are made, the alphabetizing may not remain correct. You can make changes manually in WP to adjust for that, or you can open a new index in Macrex and "pour" the spell-checked index file into it and then run the sort and merge programs to re-sort the corrected index. The last thing I do is save the index again and open it in WordPerfect to make any formatting changes I may need. I rarely print indexes anymore (most clients want them on disk or in email), but if I have to do that, I prefer to do it from WordPerfect, which IMO gives you better control over the outcome. I then save the index to a floppy for the client (choosing the correct format), and that's it. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 20:49:58 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah H Lemaire Subject: Re: Editing In-Reply-To: <199801192256.AA12023@world.std.com> On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, RHurd44884 wrote: > After the entries have been keyed in, what are the best steps to take next? > Check spelling, edit entries etc. Thank you. > Like Sonsie, I like to proofread on paper. I make a printout of the index and often go through one entry at a time, making sure the page numbers are correct, looking for typos, etc. I often find entries where the wording is quite similar so I combine those. I look for entries with not enough detail and make subentries or entries with too much detail and remove subentries. I also make sure that entries use consistent format and terminology and I make sure the cross-references are valid; in other words, if it say "See TCP/IP" I make sure there is indeed an entry at TCP/IP. I often add cross-references at this stage as well. This often takes as much time as entering the entries themselves. Sarah ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:35:37 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Editing At 08:49 PM 1/19/1998 -0500, Sarah H Lemaire wrote: >Like Sonsie, I like to proofread on paper. I make a printout of the >index and often go through one entry at a time, making sure the page >numbers are correct, looking for typos, etc. [Friendly snip] I do all that as well...except that I don't check each page number/page range. In a book with 2000 entries, this would take hours! I will spot check entries, check any that look suspicious (much too big a page range usually indicates a typo, as I'm big on subentries), and so forth. Am I the only one who doesn't usually check each and every page entry? Gee, I hope not! =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 01:00:25 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Editing Sonsie, No, you're not the only one who doesn't check every page. I don't. Never did. I'm a fairly accurate typist, and a lot of the page number mistakes, if and when they creep in, make themselves known when editing -- comparing "flips", checking double postings, etc. It is much too tedious to be checking every page. You have to trust your own work! Spot checking is enough, in my eyes. And keeping your mind on your work when doing data entry. Janet ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:43:13 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: Editing In-Reply-To: <199801200604.WAA15617@pacific.net> The subject is checking each locator string or not. Janet wrote: >It is much too tedious to be checking every page. You have to trust your own >work! >Spot checking is enough, in my eyes. And keeping your mind on your work when >doing data entry. In my time being mentored by a wonderful woman at Matthew Bender law publishers (and being supervised by the divine freelancer coordinator), it was drilled into me to check my page numbers, because my mentor checked every locator string, and if I made mistakes I had to deal with an increasingly disappointed mentor. I was being paid for my work so I was highly motivated to learn. She wanted me to learn to check each page number as I entered it on the computer, though, not to check them afterward. And so I do. Every single one. It is reflex now for me to look up and see that it is correct. Of course, if I'm inputting the same page number as before, in Macrex I just press F9, and I don't have to look, because the page number has been duped. I think for people learning indexing it is a REALLY GOOD IDEA to check all of your locator strings. If you don't have time to do it before the deadline, as a favor to yourself, check them afterward. You'll be so mortified you will learn to check them as you enter them. Keep it up till you consistently don't find any errors, and then you can be confident that you don't need to check your locator strings. Thank you, dear mentor. Thank you, Matthew Bender (before the reorg that axed my program). Best, Victoria ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:24:35 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Australian Society of Indexers Webmaster Subject: Web Indexing Prize 97 winners The Australian Society of Indexers is proud to announce the winner of the 1997 Web Indexing Prize as: FIRST: Christobel Wescombe Fisher Library, University of Sydney Faculty of Education Internet Guide http://www.library.usyd.edu.au/Guides/Education SECOND: Ann Treacy MRNet Minneapolis, USA an index for Minnesota web sites http://www.mnonline.org/uffda THIRD: Graham Greenleaf, Geoffrey King, Daniel Austin AustLII, UTS and UNSW Faculties of Law, Sydney AustLII's World Law Index (including Project DIAL) http://www.austlii.edu.au/links/World/ Full details on all entries are available at: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi/web97winners.html It was a very hard choice between high powered Web database engines and handcrafted annotated guides. There were some very good online book indexes, some very good site indexes and several database indexes such as for genealogy, computer crime and the FBI exceptional cases. The breadth included Transformer fanfic (fan written fiction), Western Australian aboriginal language handbooks, North Queensland special catalogue subheadings. There were sites on Australian current affairs with links to online newspapers, state library collations of links related to their state and recreational networks of outlets for the disabled. It took us hours to wade through them all! One thing is for sure: since last year there are many more sophisticated methods for searching out and indexing large amounts of online text. People are using databases and Web add-ons to their Word processing to create these huge databases. The sheer mass of information is making people either hand-sort the material using human intellect or use large search engines to tie in all the loose ends. I trust you will enjoy browsing through the many and varied ways indexes are coming to the fore these days in the online arena! Become part of Web indexing! Get in touch with AusSI to enter next year's prize. Cheers The Judges: Dwight Walker (Webmaster, Australian Society of Indexers) Alan Wilson (Librarian, Parliamentary Library, Canberra, Australia) ------- Dwight Walker Webmaster Australian Society of Indexers, Sydney, NSW, Australia +61-2-98902691 (h) +61-(0)412-405727 (mobile), fax +61-2-97772058 ICQ chat id wwwalker, no. 4631678 (www.mirabilis.com) URL: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:55:09 +0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Headley and Adrian Walker-Smith Subject: Re: Editing >From Christine Headley RHurd44884 wrote: > > After the entries have been keyed in, what are the best steps to take next? > Check spelling, edit entries etc. I always write long entries first time through, often with one more level of sub-heading that I expect to need. Then I print out the whole index in alphabetical order, and again in page number order and make back-ups of them, so if I edit too hard I can get the original back. I use Macrex, but I should think all other reputable brands have these facilities. Next I rationalise the entries with comparatively few locators. Up to six normally don't get sub-headings, more get grouped. After that I tackle the biggies, trying to amalgamate sub-headings, maybe looking at it in page number order if it makes more sense that way. Incidentally, I always do the first draft in up to nine mini-indexes, cumulating them as I go along. This means that each mini-index is relatively easy to get round and if 'something goes wrong' I don't lose the whole thing (DV). My first action on receiving proofs is to go through them with a hole punch, dividing them into sections and tying them together with treasury tags, which also usually reveals if any pages have been missed out. I then read the first chapter (to find out what the book is really about) and start indexing at the second, indexing the first chapter last. If I were to spell-check, I would do it last, as there is no point in checking spelling of edited-out words. But I reckon by then I should have found them all in my normal editing process. Christine ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 08:02:54 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah H Lemaire Subject: Re: Editing In-Reply-To: <199801200721.AA12589@world.std.com> I didn't think that checking page numbers was that controversial! No flames please! I will confess that I did not check every page number on the highly detailed index I did for a 2000-page book in October. But usually I work for a publisher who publishes small books that don't require detailed indexes and I usually have enough time to go over the page numbers. When I used my Macintosh for indexing, if you typed in the page numbers quickly, it added an extra 4, for example, page 98 would come out as page 948. So I had to be pretty careful. In a huge index with 4-digit page numbers, those extra 4s were not always so obvious. Of course, when I did several embedded indexes in FrameMaker this fall, I didn't need to check the page numbers! And in the meantime, I've switched to a PC. Sarah ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:10:34 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: AllWrite N Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: office equipment Diane, You can refill Epson toner cartridges yourself. My husband found a source for the toner when he did a search on the Web; total cost was $20 or less -- including the shipping cost of the toner! Easy enough to do -- just be careful that you don't snap the little plastic pieces on the paper feed flap (been there, did that :( ). If you are interested in where he found it, I will be happy to pass it along -- it's not available to me at this very moment. Nancy Noyes All Write Newburyport, MA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:13:34 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Editing I used to check every page but have gotten out of the habit recently because it was just too time consuming. For a 500-page book it added an extra day to the process. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:14:46 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: BECohen653 Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Editing Like many others, I don't check every page number at the end because I also check each one as I enter it. When training new indexers, I have found that this is one of the most difficult "indexers' skills" to acquire: to train someone who is a touch typists to look at the screen after typing each entry and to proof it against the text for spelling and correct page number. It makes data entry slower, but accuracy is more important than speed! That flies in the face of what typing teachers have drilled into "real" typists. Also, since I check each entry after it is entered, I can think while I enter and pause before entering the next bit. (You can tell that I do not mark much before starting to enter in Cindex. I like the think, enter, edit, and so forth as I go through the pages. I do a heavy skim and think through the index, but I don't make actual entries until I begin typing, usually.) Also, by checking the screen, you can overcome one minor error that can occur in Cindex: it is possible to type an entry into the command line by accident (if you miss the "add"/F1 key) and then when you "enter" it, it disappears. This occasionally happens to me, so checking after every entry avoids that small problem. Barbara ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:16:07 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MaryMort Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Editing - checking page numbers Sarah, it's not controversial to me! I check all my page numbers, but I combine the task with other editing tasks so it seems efficient to me. Every indexer works out his/her own best way of editing. I agree with Victoria that it's a good idea for people starting out to edit and check more rather than less, as they determine their own comfort level. FWIW, here's what I do: 1. Print first draft and look for what others have mentioned (similar wording that can be combined, entries that don't need subentries after all, etc.) 2. After making those updates in Macrex, I sort the index in page number order and print that draft. I then go through the book page by page to check the page numbers. But I'm also looking for consistency, items I've highlighted on a page and somehow overlooked (easy in cases when there are 12-15 marks on a page!), and making final wording choices. I often leave question marks in entries until this point when I look at the text again and come up with the best wording I can. Also, if there is a length limit on the index, this is a good time to find more things to cut if necessary. Since I'm doing multiple editing tasks, and the entries are in page number order, I feel that this is an efficient way for me to check page numbers. 3. I go back to the Macrex file, sort the file back into alphabetical order, and make the updates from the last edit. I usually print out one last draft for a final look (unless it's a short, simple index that I can look at on the screen). Cheers, Mary -- * Mary Mortensen * marymort@aol.com * Lawrence, Kansas, USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:17:25 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: AllWrite N Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: office equipment It is possible to have your signature scanned and then use it from your PC -- there are even software packages available that let you incorporate your own handwriting as a font -- but I would want a 'real' ink signature on any contract that I was offering or accepting. Anyone could 'use' your signature if it was stored on your PC, but a 'real' forgery is harder to get away with. May sound paranoid, but there are enough people out there who may decide to use things that don't belong to them (or question the validity of a disputed contract if they have no proof that you actually put the signature on it) that I would prefer to use real ink. Nancy Noyes All Write ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:30:10 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: Re: Editing Victoria Baker wrote: > > The subject is checking each locator string or not. > I think for people learning indexing it is a REALLY GOOD IDEA to check all > of your locator strings. If you don't have time to do it before the > deadline, as a favor to yourself, check them afterward. You'll be so > mortified you will learn to check them as you enter them. Keep it up till > you consistently don't find any errors, and then you can be confident that > you don't need to check your locator strings. I agree with this completely. When beginning, I thought that I was being very careful and checking each locator as I typed it, but upon checking at the end I found numerous mistakes. As an apprentice, part of my job was checking locators for my mentor. That helped me learn his indexing methods, since I page-checked in page order number, not alphabetical order. It gave me more understanding of the structure of an index. I have tried doing data entry with the Cindex function that automatically carries your last page number forward to the next entry. I make too many mistakes this way, and have had to turn it off. If I want to use the page number from the previous entry I have to consciously press alt-0 to insert it. Ann ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:31:55 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: TAHUDOBA Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Fwd: Computer Viruses This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_885306715_boundary Content-ID: <0_885306715@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi folks-- I received this message from my brother, who is an expert in the field of auditing compters and databases. Just thought I pass it along. Regards, Terri ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Teresa A. Hudoba Indexers Plus: Indexing, Editing, and Other Useful Services tahudoba@aol.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ << From the Price Waterhouse alert network... >> > Important Notice > >WARNING! If you receive an e-mail titled, "JOIN THE CREW", do not >open it! It will erase EVERYTHING on your hard drive. Send this >letter out to as many people you can..this is a new virus and not many >people know about it. > >This information was received this morning from IBM, please share >it with anyone that might access the Internet. > > Also, if anyone receives mail entitled, "PENPAL GREETINGS!", >please delete it WITHOUT reading it! This is a warning for all Internet >users. There is a dangerous virus propagating across the Internet through an >e-mail message entitled "PENPAL GREETINGS!"!! > >DO NOT DOWNLOAD ANY MESSAGE ENTITLED "PENPAL GREETINGS"!! >this message appears to be a friendly letter asking you if you are >interested in a penpal, but by the time you read this letter, it is >too late. The Trojan Horse Virus will have already infected the boot >sector of >your hard drive, destroying all of the data present. > >It is a self-replicating virus, and once the message is read, it will >AUTOMATICALLY forward itself to anyone whose e-mail address is >present in YOUR mailbox. > > The virus will DESTROY your hard drive and holds the potential to >DESTROY the hard drive of anyone whose mail is in your mailbox and >who's mail is in their mailbox and so on. If this virus keeps getting >passed, >it has the potential to do a great deal of DAMAGE to computer networks >worldwide!!! >> > > Please delete the message entitled "PENPAL GREETINGS!!" as soon as >you see it! And pass this message along to all of your friends, >relatives and the other readers of the newsgroups and mailing lists, which >you >are on so that they are not harmed by this dangerous virus! >> > > Please pass this along to everyone you know so this can be >stopped. >> > >> > PASS THIS ON TO YOUR FRIENDS. WARNING!!!! This is a new virus >going around in the last couple of days! DO NOT open or even look at >any mail that you get that says: "Returned or Unable to Deliver". This >virus will attach itself to your computer components and render them >useless. >> >> > Immediately delete any mail items that say this. AOL has said this >is a very dangerous virus, and there is NO remedy for it at this time. Please >be careful, and forward to all your on-line friends A.S.A.P. >> > >> > FORWARD THIS A.S.A.P. TO EVERY SINGLE PERSON YOU KNOW!!!!!!!!!!! >> --part0_885306715_boundary Content-ID: <0_885306715@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from relay25.mail.aol.com (relay25.mail.aol.com [172.31.109.25]) by air14.mail.aol.com (v37.8) with SMTP; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:28:04 -0500 Received: from coconut.tc.pw.com (coconut-ext.tc.pw.com [131.209.1.104]) by relay25.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id SAA17118; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:28:01 -0500 (EST) From: Steven_Hudoba@notes.pw.com Received: by coconut.tc.pw.com; id PAA10462; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 15:26:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from unknown(10.9.16.60) by coconut.tc.pw.com via smap (3.2) id xma010410; Mon, 19 Jan 98 15:25:52 -0800 Received: by fern.us.pw.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA26408; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:27:17 -0500 Message-Id: <199801192327.SAA26408@fern.us.pw.com> To: kphud@mn.uswest.net, TAHUDOBA@aol.com, tbroadbent@avhq.com, Skydvrr33@aol.com Date: Mon, 19 Jan 98 15:20:09 PST Subject: Computer Viruses Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From the Price Waterhouse alert network... > >> > Important Notice > >WARNING! If you receive an e-mail titled, "JOIN THE CREW", do not >open it! It will erase EVERYTHING on your hard drive. Send this >letter out to as many people you can..this is a new virus and not many >people know about it. > >This information was received this morning from IBM, please share >it with anyone that might access the Internet. > > Also, if anyone receives mail entitled, "PENPAL GREETINGS!", >please delete it WITHOUT reading it! This is a warning for all Internet >users. There is a dangerous virus propagating across the Internet through an >e-mail message entitled "PENPAL GREETINGS!"!! > >DO NOT DOWNLOAD ANY MESSAGE ENTITLED "PENPAL GREETINGS"!! >this message appears to be a friendly letter asking you if you are >interested in a penpal, but by the time you read this letter, it is >too late. The Trojan Horse Virus will have already infected the boot >sector of >your hard drive, destroying all of the data present. > >It is a self-replicating virus, and once the message is read, it will >AUTOMATICALLY forward itself to anyone whose e-mail address is >present in YOUR mailbox. > > The virus will DESTROY your hard drive and holds the potential to >DESTROY the hard drive of anyone whose mail is in your mailbox and >who's mail is in their mailbox and so on. If this virus keeps getting >passed, >it has the potential to do a great deal of DAMAGE to computer networks >worldwide!!! >> > > Please delete the message entitled "PENPAL GREETINGS!!" as soon as >you see it! And pass this message along to all of your friends, >relatives and the other readers of the newsgroups and mailing lists, which >you >are on so that they are not harmed by this dangerous virus! >> > > Please pass this along to everyone you know so this can be >stopped. >> > >> > PASS THIS ON TO YOUR FRIENDS. WARNING!!!! This is a new virus >going around in the last couple of days! DO NOT open or even look at >any mail that you get that says: "Returned or Unable to Deliver". This >virus will attach itself to your computer components and render them >useless. >> >> > Immediately delete any mail items that say this. AOL has said this >is a very dangerous virus, and there is NO remedy for it at this time. Please >be careful, and forward to all your on-line friends A.S.A.P. >> > >> > FORWARD THIS A.S.A.P. TO EVERY SINGLE PERSON YOU KNOW!!!!!!!!!!! --part0_885306715_boundary-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:30:51 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: Editing Christine Headley wrote: (friendly snip) >My first action on receiving proofs is to go >through them with a hole punch, dividing them into sections >and tying them together with treasury tags, which also usually >reveals if any pages have been missed out. I then read the first chapter (to find out what the book is really about) and start >indexing at the second, indexing the first chapter last. After my very first two jobs came in with a missing page, I learned to check the pages when I receive them. Now I do something similar to Christine's tactic, except that I put the entire book into a loose-leaf notebook, using page dividers to mark the chapters. That way, the proofs are both portable and secure (I hate wasting time putting a chapter back in order after dropping it all over the floor!) Since I'm a mom as well as an indexer, the notebook gives me the ability mark text anywhere without worrying about losing pages or whole sections. (It's also a lot easier to go back and check specific pages.) I used to try to mark the whole text first, then go back and do data-entry, but that didn't work with my schedule. Now, I use the time when my pre-schooler is around to mark text, and the time when she is at daycare or pre-school, asleep, or playing with Daddy to do the entries. This seems to work out pretty well, although sometimes I run out of marked text during daycare, and end up doing both. I try not to enter a chapter until I've finished marking it. I do data-entry chapter by chapter, taking a single chapter at a time out of the notebook since the book is just too bulky to keep on the desk or my lap. (I use a copy stand for typing entries.) When I'm finished, I make a mark at the end of the chapter to remind myself that it has been entered, and put the pages back into the notebook. I do try to do a lot of the term-choice and organizational editing as I go along, but find that I end up with a fair amount to do at the end anyway. As I get more experience, though, my edit time is going down. When I first started, it took me far longer to edit than to do data entry. Now, editing takes as much time as entry, sometimes less if the book is well-organized. I don't check every page locator at the end, but I do spot-check as well as double-check anything which looks weird. One problem I've had is that Macrex won't accept characters when it is doing a timed backup. Since my backups can take only a second, if I don't look up at the screen, I've missed a letter, or worse, a digit or two of a page number, without realizing it. Now, I try to look at the screen before I hit enter, to make sure I got the page numbers right. It may be slightly slower, but it beats leafing back through, trying to figure out whether 24 was supposed to be 124, 240-something, 204, 2-4, etc. > If I were to spell-check, I would do it last, as there is no point >in checking spelling of edited-out words. But I reckon by then >I should have found them all in my normal editing process. I used to think I'd find all the spelling errors while editing, but discovered that sometimes I was too close to the work to spot them. One thing that helps there is to wait a day or two (if I have the time) and recheck when I can come back to it when I'm fresh. I do run the index through a spellchecker, unless there are so many foreign terms that it would be easier to check it by hand. A second pair of eyes can really help, too. My mentor and I have begun exchanging completed indexes by email, proofreading for each other. This helps pick up ambiguous wording or inconsistent term use as well as "hard" errors. (Plus, I learn a lot by looking at her indexes!) Kara Pekar jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:35:13 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah H Lemaire Subject: Re: Editing In-Reply-To: <199801201430.AA03414@world.std.com> Well, I've never had the opportunity to sort in page number order but I assume I will with the new version of CINDEX for Windows. It will definitely speed up that process! Sarah ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:36:53 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah H Lemaire Subject: Review of Color Printers In-Reply-To: <199801201430.AA03414@world.std.com> For the person who was asking about color printers, check out this month's issue of Good Housekeeping with Kirstie Alley on the cover. Inside is a review of 4 reasonably priced color printers. They reviewed the latest HP printer as very quiet, unlike the noisy HP printer I purchased 8 months ago. Oh well... Sarah ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:39:30 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: Re: Editing > >From Christine Headley > > RHurd44884 wrote: > > > > After the entries have been keyed in, what are the best steps to take next? > > Check spelling, edit entries etc. > > I always write long entries first time through, often with one more level of > sub-heading > that I expect to need. Then I print out the whole index in alphabetical order, > and > again in page number order and make back-ups of them, so if I edit too hard I > can get > the original back. I use Macrex, but I should think all other reputable brands > have > these facilities. > > Next I rationalise the entries with comparatively few locators. Up to six > normally > don't get sub-headings, more get grouped. After that I tackle the biggies, > trying to > amalgamate sub-headings, maybe looking at it in page number order if it makes > more sense > that way. > > Incidentally, I always do the first draft in up to nine mini-indexes, cumulating > them as > I go along. This means that each mini-index is relatively easy to get round and > if > 'something goes wrong' I don't lose the whole thing (DV). My first action on > receiving > proofs is to go through them with a hole punch, dividing them into sections and > tying > them together with treasury tags, which also usually reveals if any pages have > been > missed out. I then read the first chapter (to find out what the book is really > about) > and start indexing at the second, indexing the first chapter last. > > If I were to spell-check, I would do it last, as there is no point in checking > spelling > of edited-out words. But I reckon by then I should have found them all in my > normal > editing process. Wow, this almost exactly my process... except for the printing part. I don't print anything; I do all my editing on the screen. I, too, work in mini indexes--one for each chapter. I edit them individually, them put them together and edit the whole thing. I don't know what treasury tags are, but I hole punch my proofs and put them in a binder, checking for missing pages. This is a change from what I used to do. I used to work with piles of pages, only putting them in a binder as I finished them. I realized the other day that I needed a different, more orderly process. I like the idea of reading the first chapter first and indexing it last. I always end up cutting the heck out of that chapter when I edit its index, so I might as well wait to the end to do it. Thanks for the tip, Christine. And I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who works this way. :-) Ann ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:46:48 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: AllWrite N Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Computer Viruses Attention everyone... Regarding these supposed viruses -- I have been in computers for 20 years, including as a programmer -- and it is IMPOSSIBLE to get a virus by opening an email. The only way to get one is to DOWNLOAD A FILE. Also, the supposed penpal virus has been discussed to death in computer magazines and proven to be a hoax. Someone gets a great deal of pleasure in getting everyone all stirred up at various times by circulating these cautionary tales. Just because someone at a reputable place sends out a bogus alert (because they either do or don't know it's a hoax) doesn't mean it's true, so don't panic! Lastly, as a piece of good advice to everyone: protect yourself and your clients by investing in (and maintaining the updates) on a good virus scan software package. I currently use McAffee, but have used Norton in the past with equal ease and results. THEY WORK! I uncovered and 'cured' a former client's PC of over 70 infected files -- all of which were from one file that she had downloaded from a reputable website. A former employer had several infected files that she received when she copied a file from someone else's PC (a legal document template, no less!), and a government site for securities exchange filings posts warnings that they know their own files (both on the website and that they ship on diskette) contain viruses, so it shows how valuable virus protection is! Hope this helps. Nancy Noyes All Write ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:52:46 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: AllWrite N Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Computer Viruses P.S. For those who may not understand the concept of virus transmission (and that includes some of the people at AOL, I'm sorry to say): There is a difference between opening email and downloading a file. I don't know of any service provider that automatically DOWNLOADS files when you open the email header that announces the header message the file is attached to -- you are usually prompted to acknowledge the download and direct it to where you wish it to go. Opening a straight email message (or not acknowledging the prompt to go ahead and download an attached file) WILL NOT CAUSE ANYTHING TO ATTACH ITSELF TO OR INFECT YOUR PC. Nancy Noyes ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:03:34 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: editing Barbara Cohen writes, in part: >>Like many others, I don't check every page number at the end because I also check each one as I enter it. When training new indexers, I have found that this is one of the most difficult "indexers' skills" to acquire: to train someone who is a touch typists to look at the screen after typing each entry and to proof it against the text for spelling and correct page number. It makes data entry slower, but accuracy is more important than speed! That flies in the face of what typing teachers have drilled into "real" typists.<< Excellent point. One of the few times I appreciate not being a touch typist. Barbara did not mention one of the things she taught me, which is to write the page number in the same place in the top right corner of each page and then to circle it. I do this in the vetting process. When I am entering I can glance at exactly the same place on the page to confirm the page number. Like Sonsie and others I spot check page number accuracy. In part I do this during editing when I am going back to the text to differentiate an entry, to conform two similar entries, to confirm the spelling of a name, etc. Craig Brown ========================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing (314)352-9094 www.i1.net/~lastword ========================================== ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:02:09 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Heidi Lee Hoerman Subject: Re: Fwd: Computer Viruses In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:31:55 EST from This computer virus message, like its predecessors is bogus. You cannot get a virus from reading email. Heidi HEIDI LEE HOERMAN COLLEGE OF LIBRARY AND INFORMATION SCIENCE UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH CAROLINA COLUMBIA, SC 29205 PHONE: (803) 777-0485 FAX: (803) 777-7938 EMAIL: HOERMAN@SC.EDU [NOTE CHANGED DOMAIN NAME!] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 07:23:19 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: office equipment At 09:17 AM 1/20/1998 EST, AllWrite N wrote: >if it was stored on your PC, but a 'real' forgery is harder to get away with. >May sound paranoid, but there are enough people out there who may decide to >use things that don't belong to them (or question the validity of a disputed >contract if they have no proof that you actually put the signature on it) that >I would prefer to use real ink. I've been involved in some real estate dealings recently, and also a probate. While faxing documents for both of these operations has been a godsend, neither the realtor nor the probate court would accept a signature of any type on a faxed document as being completely secure. I would sign something and fax it as evidence of acceptance, but they still wanted the original signature and document fedexed to them. I think some jurisdictions are changing on this point, but right now many will not accept faxed signatures as legal evidence. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 07:23:21 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Editing At 09:30 AM 1/20/1998 -0500, John and Kara Pekar wrote: >I don't check every page locator at the end, but I do spot-check as well as >double-check anything which looks weird. One problem I've had is that >Macrex won't accept characters when it is doing a timed backup. Since my >backups can take only a second, if I don't look up at the screen, I've >missed a letter, or worse, a digit or two of a page number, without >realizing it. Now, I try to look at the screen before I hit enter, to make >sure I got the page numbers right. It may be slightly slower, but it beats >leafing back through, trying to figure out whether 24 was supposed to be >124, 240-something, 204, 2-4, etc. I turned on the "beep" in Macrex, which lets me know when an automatic save is starting. This helped a lot with the problem of losing parts of entries during saves. I'm working on a huge project right now that takes several seconds to save, and I could easily lose most of an entry if I just kept typing through the process. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 07:23:22 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Editing At 01:00 AM 1/20/1998 EST, JPerlman wrote: >No, you're not the only one who doesn't check every page. I don't. Never >did. I'm a fairly accurate typist, and a lot of the page number mistakes, if >and when they creep in, make themselves known when editing -- comparing >"flips", checking double postings, etc. In the sense you're talking about (using the program to help point out errors), I guess I =do= check page numbers. I'm a pretty fast and accurate typist, but I never did learn the numbers "by touch," so I almost instinctively glance at the screen (and at the marked-up page) most of the time to be sure I got the number correct. I also mark up pages fairly heavily, which IMO is another level of checking (although an error can creep in there as well). And there's usually a certain logic to subject-and-page connections...at least in the books I normally work on. If the discussion of probates is contained in one chapter or page range, I will automatically check any locator that falls outside that range. If I find a page range of over, say, ten pages, I know there is something wrong, because I use a lot of subentries, and I'll check it out. And so on. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 07:23:24 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Computer Viruses At 09:52 AM 1/20/1998 EST, AllWrite N wrote: >There is a difference between opening email and downloading a file. I don't >know of any service provider that automatically DOWNLOADS files when you open >the email header that announces the header message the file is attached to -- >you are usually prompted to acknowledge the download and direct it to where >you wish it to go. Unfortunately the AOL software allows you to check a box to automatically download any attached files. I believe it may also automatically open the file (or unzip it) as well...but I can't remember that part because long ago I unchecked the check box for just the reason we're discussing...the possibility of getting a virus. I would also like to remind people that there are good places to check out these virus messages. Many of these messages are bogus...the "virus" actually is the spawning of thousands of duplications of the message (and the resulting annoyance or even panic on the part of unknowing users). Visit this web site to check out any virus message before propagating it to all your lists. It's the Computer Virus Myths page, and very accurate: http://kumite.com/myths/ =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:55:53 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bookindexr Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: CHATROOMS - ICQ-AOL Update Sorry to post this to the list but something happened to my address book again...it disappeared. Some how it ended up under my husband's screen name..figure that. Well I think it has something to do with the fact that I had to reformat my hard drive and reinstall everything because of the trojan I had. I had saved my organize files that is suppose to have address book and the stuff you have done a flash on. Somehow the files must have gotten scrambled. Anyway this will act as an final reminders about the chat rooms. I don't plan to post anymore reminder of the chats. The chats haven't disappeared we are just not scheduling them for any specific time. Any person can initiate a chat at their convenience. So if you are not interested in the chat rooms you don't need to read the remainder of this letter... if you are read on. ICQ Yea!!! I finally got my registration number for my windows 95 and ended up having to reformatting the hard drive and reinstall all of my programs...still installing. So hopefully my ICQ is working now. Someone get online so I can check it out!...:) Well I think all of this is a blessing in disquise. I think the solution to our chat room problems is to do exactly what we are doing now. Just get online when you have time and want to chat about indexing or the weather and if you see a lot of smiley faces on your online window you can either join the chat already in progress or initiate one if they are all just siting there with smiles on their faces. You have to have ICQ to understand what I am talking about so download it if you can from http:\\member.aol.com/bookindexr. By the way I had a little trouble downloading this time i don't know if it was the network or my computer. I usually fly through this stuff. I think I am missing files that had accumulated over time that had helped keep things running smoothly. Oh well I am sure I will get them all back eventually. Anyway I had to keep trying download sites and none of them were working I finally went back to the power user page and still had to try two sites before it started downloading. If you have windows 95, run across this problem and can't download at all, let me know and I will upload it to you from my hard drive...it takes about 30 minutes on a 28,800 baud. Just a reminder to send me your name and UIN number if you want to participate in the open forum chats. AOL I think we should do the AOL Chat the same way we are doing the ICQ Chats..only one person besides me showed up last night and usually there is only two or three. It doesn't seem to be growing and it may just be due to the time schedule not be compatible for everyone. The only problem with doing this with AOL is that when someone is on your buddy list you don't know if they are available to chat or not. AOL doesn't have the little smiley face icons next to the names in their buddy list. So maybe it would work if everyone that want to participate send me your screen name. I will consolidate them into a list and send them to all who want to participate in the chats. Click on the "setup" button in your buddy list window, then click on "privacy preferences". Add each name to the list by typing them into the "Type Screen Name Here" block then press add. Once you have the list set up click on the button to the left that says "block only these people whose screen name I list" when you are not available to chat. When you are available click "allow only these screen names I list" and then go to the chat room using the link we alway have used. If you need the link E-mail me. There are 35 people on my list that have wanted the link for the chat room. Do you think this would work? We could try it if it interfer with anything just try something else. Send me your name if you want to participate. If you don't know what I am talking about and are interested in participating in the chat E-mail and I will give you the detailed instructions I had sent previously. Susan Wilkerson Bookindexr@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:54:00 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ilana Kingsley Subject: Re: Fwd: Computer Viruses In-Reply-To: <199801201430.JAA04058@beryl.ils.unc.edu> HEy Folks, There is no such thing a an email virus. They are hoaxes. For more information see: http://www.spcug.org/hoax.htm ***************************************** * Kingsley Indexing Services * * 125 Olive Branch Church Road * * Roxboro, NC 27573 * * inewby@beryl.ils.unc.edu * * http://www.prairienet.org/~inewby * * (910) 597-5380 * ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 01:42:14 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Editing In-Reply-To: <199801200500.XAA27478@mixcom.mixcom.com> >After the entries have been keyed in, what are the best steps to take next? >Check spelling, edit entries etc. Thank you. Good question. I do some of my editing as I'm inputting and some at the end (because I don't always want to commit until later). I always do the spelling check after the editing, because then I can catch any typos added during the editing stage. Here are my steps: 1. edit 2. look at queries and see which I can answer using assorted encyclopedias 3. add the queries to the notes to the editor and list of typos, which I've accumulated in the course of indexing 4. check formatting against client's specs 5. spelling check; proofread (on screen) 6. export to MS Word 7. adjust formatting (double-space, change font, etc.) 8. add headnote if necessary 9. change apostrophes and quote marks to "smart quotes" (i.e., curved marks) 10. change cross-refs to roman where the word that follows is in itals 11. add any diacritics Cindex doesn't do 12. ship & bill 13. bubble bath Hope I haven't left out anything important. >Am I the only one who doesn't usually check each and every page entry? Gee, >I hope not! No, Sonsie, you're not the only one. Aside from the time it would take, I know that I would glaze over if I checked the page numbers that way, so I don't think I would do it very effectively. Instead, I check spelling and locator carefully each time I enter a line. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:12:31 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Re: Editing Wow sorry for the length here. Editing is one of my favorite indexing topics! I first smell check the index in Cindex. I used to do exactly as Sonsie described _after_ I had finished editing. Now I spellcheck directly in Cindex since I don't have to remember to keep a list of the corrections to put back in the file; and I also got bit a few times by not realizing how the spelling changes in WP would affect the sort as she mentioned. In the rush of getting it done and rushing off to FedEx I found from experience that I would sometimes neglect to enter the corrections back into the Cindex file, which would sometimes come back to bite me later. I also now prefer to spellcheck _before_ editing. Then I can relax (somewhat) with respect to spelling in the editing process. I also first do a Verify which automatically takes care of the type of thing Sarah mentioned: if there's a reference "yada yada yada. See TCP/ICP" is there indeed a main head TCP/ICP? With Verify all these are resolved in one swell foop, though if the index is big this step can take a bit of time to run down why the various terms were flagged by Verify. Not all are actually errors. Sometimes I do Verify after editing but I would never think of letting an index out without doing it. I always edit from a single-spaced printout, no matter how small the index. I have several reasons for this. One is that from a printed index it's easy to spot a misspelling that made the term sort say like 10-15 lines away from its compadres. Editing on screen makes this harder, and no matter how I set the screen format, there will be difficulties seeing the "big picture". Like in Cindex in the normal mode I may not be able to see a complete subhead, though I can see a lot of lines. On the other hand if I set "wrap lines" to yes in SET MODE I may only get to see a few entries on the screen at any one time. Secondly it frees me from the computer. I can take the printout to a local park and sit on a picnic table and edit in the fresh air of a Spring morning. You get the idea. Another reason is that it's relatively easy to jump from one spot to another to check for things like correct double posting of subheads, or "flippings" as some people call this. Fran Lennie likes to say that a good index is made in the editing. When you can see the big picture of the index you come up with all sorts of good cross references. To me this is the difference between an index in Black and White and one in Color. Like Sonsie I try to also do a lot of editing while I'm entering terms. For example if I remember a term or one like it has been used before, I'll go into edit mode to pick up the record number so I can do an ADD on that term and use it as a template for the new one. This reduces a lot of the final editing because normally a big percentage of that is simply combining very close but not exactly alike terms (plural/nonplural, with acronym/without acronym etc.). When you don't do much editing while indexing you end up with (it seems like) every other term having as many as 5-6 different variants, as in (as usual I'm exaggerating for effect) Clean Air Act Clean Air act Clean air act Clean Air Act (CAA) Clean air act (CAA) Often I'll do a bit of quick scrolling in the general area of the term whose record number I want to pick up. This gives me a feel for other closely related terms and subheadings already existing. Normally by this more or less random process by the time you're done entering all the terms most of the index has seen considerable editing and final editing is much easier. The actual time editing the pages doesn't change that much; you still have to look at every single word, etc., although this can shorten the index and help in that way. What changes is the amount of time you need to enter the editing corrections. If there are a lot of corrections it sometimes takes me as long to enter the changes as to edit the printout! Time requirements vary anywhere from 2 hours for a bunny index to a week for one I just finished: a 5500 page text, my biggest ever! As a rule of thumb typically if I have all the indexing done for an average 200-400 pager by noonish I won't have to sweat the 8:00 FedEx deadline; in other words 1/2-2/3 day's work is about normal. I can normally edit about 10-15 single-spaced printout pages per hour. I don't verify every page number while editing. Something I do if I catch any weird page numbers (see below) is to do a "squeeze/single" then do a Page order sort. Then I go to the end of the index and confirm for example that if the book is 500 pages there aren't any page references higher than that. Being aware of major sources of error helps too. One of the biggest at least in the way I index is when I use the "alt 0,1,2" and "shift/pgdn" functionalities in Cindex. There are several possible sources of error in this practice. You may shft/pgdn for the purpose of using a term as a template and then forget to either change the subheading or the page number. When using alt 0 it is also possible to end up with an "appended" page reference as in 2022-24. This results from not first removing the "20" before doing alt 0 with "22-24". 99.9% of the time these will be caught as they happen but if I'm in a superrush 1-2 of these may get through undetected. If you don't catch it at the time you do it you may not be able to see it again until during the printout editing process; see above on screen formatting as to why you might not see this obvious error while scrolling through the index. So I do "check" all page numbers but only for this and related problems as opposed to going back to the text to confirm them. Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! Why is there only one Monopolies Commission? First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:29:21 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Computer Viruses At 09:52 AM 1/20/98 EST, you wrote: > >There is a difference between opening email and downloading a file. I don't >know of any service provider that automatically DOWNLOADS files when you open >the email header that announces the header message the file is attached to -- I'm sorry to say that Eudora 3.0 does. This still doesn't present a virus threat, unless you execute something that's been downloaded. And, if you are thinking of the recent warning about "Join the Crew", that one is a hoax that has been circulating for months. The virus aspect is that recipients are spurred to send the warning to ewveryone else they know. That proliferation of e-mail is, in fact, the effect of the so-called virus. Dick Evans ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:37:16 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Joanne E. Clendenen" Organization: AfterWords Indexing Services Subject: Re: Editing On checking page numbers/locators: No, Sonsie, you're not the only one who just does a spot check. I'm afraid I often don't have time to check every page. I try to be extra conscious as I do my entering, and I look for the out-of-the-ordinary during my edit on paper. In the couple of times that I have been specifically requested to do a full page check (usually because of changes), I have found maybe 2-5 errors in a 350 page book, so that's not too bad. Most of the adjustments I made when I did this were to make a single page continuous to the next one, or to delete a continuous reference and make it to one page. The most common error for me is to have a continuous page range that runs through a page with an unrelated photo or illustration. I also benefit from giving my drafts to my working partner, Kay, who often finds stuff that I have missed. Makes for more accurate results for all my indexes. Joanne -- AfterWords Indexing Services Joanne E. Clendenen email: jbclend@bigfoot.com http://www.flash.net/~jbclend ---------------- "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not any simpler." Einstein ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:28:56 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: KArrigoni2 Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Creating embedded indexes in Word 6--Help! Hi All, I'm going to be creating an embedded index for a client in Word 6 pretty soon and need some advice. Most of the indexes I create are in CINDEX and Frame, and I haven't created one in Word for quite some time--and never in Word 6. I've used Word 5.1 for the Mac in the past to create indexes with no problems, but Word 6 seems very different--especially when it comes to page ranges. In Word 5.1, it's easy to create separate lines for all the entries that pertain to a section and keep them all together, but in Word 6 it seems like you have to embed them within the text. Using "bookmarks" to define page ranges also seems very confusing and it's not covered too well in the manual. How do you keep track of all those bookmarks? And how do you decide what to call them? Any help for going about this would be greatly appreciated! By the way, I think the Windows version of Word 6 is pretty much the same as the Mac version, so any advice from you Windows people would be appreciated too. Thanks, Karin Arrigoni ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:16:39 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Re: Editing Good news. This one will be short! I just wanted to address Carol's very good point about why she spellchecks _after_ editing in case misspellings are entered in editing. I agree this is a potential problem so to handle it (after I have done the spellcheck _before_ editing) I carefully check every new entry when editing. If there are many corrections I'll spellcheck starting at the first record number of the new terms. This normally takes only a few extra seconds vs. spellchecking the whole index. I also do this rather bizarre practice which stems from experience-based paranoia. Say I add a new subheading to an existing main head. After entering the term in ADD mode I go into EDIT and confirm that the new term appears to be where it belongs and the new sub has sorted properly. Not trusting this alone (here comes the paranoia), I will then delete a character from one of the other records in that same main head group I know to be correct. This makes that term "active" for doing an "alt 1". Next I go to the next lower term and apply the "new" term via "alt 1", after first deleting the existing main head. Then I put the deleted character back in. This makes the original correct term now active for "alt 1". [The reason for this bizarre seeming push-me pull-you is that at least in Cindex 5 you can't do "alt 1" in Edit until a term has become "active" by being changed] As the final step I delete and then "alt 1" over every single main heading term in the group. If _every_ term is now exactly alike there will be no changes from this "alt 1" process and no term will become "newly" active (translate "light up"). The reason I do this is that I have seen cases in Cindex where 2 terms which appear to be exactly alike will sort as if they were different; over the years a few even stumped Fran at least temporarily as to why they were different. Granted there's always a subtle reason why the 2 terms are different but rather than scratch my head for 5 minutes I do this. Believe it or not I can do this in about 5 seconds (the hand movements are akin to playing the piano) and then I can be _absolutely_ _positively_ sure the new term was not misspelled. Note: alternately I could go into edit, pick up the record number of the main heading that's gonna get a new subhead, and do an ADD on that record for a template. Just depends on my mood at the time and which I think of first. This is also how I handle all cases of combining alternate forms of the same term together in editing as in my exxagerated Clean Air Act example. This way I can have ESP about the fact that every single one of these terms will have exactly the same main head. I first choose the "correct" term, delete a character, then continue as above. One little shortcut for this technique. If there are say 8 terms all you have to do is confirm the first and last don't "light up" and all the middle ones are automatically also correct. Also any time I correct a misspelling on the fly in EDIT I confirm manually by this same technique that it's not different from the other terms if there are more of the same main heading. In editing I'm doing this almost continuously. Even terms that only differ (seemingly) by having an "s" are confirmed in this way after choosing one or the other form. Oops this post wasn't that short! Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty but only the pig enjoys it. First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:37:03 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Editing Index-L-ers, Not until reading comments such as Carol's: << Aside from the time it would take, I know that I would glaze over if I checked the page numbers that way, so I don't think I would do it very effectively. Instead, I check spelling and locator carefully each time I enter a line. >> .... and other similar comments, did I realize that I too am checking each page locator by glancing up at the screen. I hadn't been aware of doing that, consciously, but once it was articulated, I realized that I *did* do that, just about automatically, and that is how I catch most of the typos in page numbers. The ones that slip through are caught in the edit. When you're comparing a main entry and the same thing as a subentry, it is easy to see that the page numbers don't agree. That is when I check back to the pages to see what's what. Do many of you (any of you) check your main entry/ same as subentry "pairs" this way? I always do. Plus I"m always looking at main entries to see what could be/should be a subentry and didn't get to be one. I'm basically checking for double postings this way. I usually add some entries this way. Maybe I didn't think that a topic would merit being a subentry, but when I see that there are a few page locators after it, there is sufficient body of information to double post that way. What an interesting discussion! Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:41:06 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: CGWeaver Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Pacific NW Indexers Listproc now available Pacific Northwest Indexers now have their own online discussion list, INDEX- NW, for communication about regional (Pacific Northwest U.S. and British Columbia) indexing issues. This replaces the manual email forwarding list which has been in place since the early 1990's. To subscribe, send an email message to: listproc@u.washington.edu Leave the subject line blank. In the body of the message type ONLY: subscribe INDEX-NW Firstname Lastname You will receive a message shortly acknowledging your subscription. Please note that this is a listproc rather than a listserv, and that commands are NOT case-sensitive. Carolyn Weaver Index-NW listowner . ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:54:48 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: TAHUDOBA Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Fwd: computer viruses--validity This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_885322488_boundary Content-ID: <0_885322488@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi Folks-- My apologies for the virus forward. I received the following notice a few hours after receiving the first. That's what I get for trusting my brother "the virus expert" Terri Hudoba tahudoba@aol.com --------------------------------------------------------------- << OK, so even the PW alert network is sometimes fooled... FYI................Following is a message received from the Computer Incident Advisory Capability (CIAC) the government agency which tracks and confirms whether or not viruses are valid. To: Brendan Brown cc: ciac @ llnl.gov @ Internet From: ciac @ llnl.gov @ Internet (Tampa-TSS-Gate6) Date: 01/19/98 04:44:52 PM PST Subject: CIAC#987978 Re: Re: VIRUS WARNING -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hi Brendan, "Join the Crew" "PenPal Greeting" "Returned or Unable to Deliver" These are all hoaxes. For more information reference our Web page at http://ciac.llnl.gov/ciac/CIACHoaxes.html Also, we now have a web page on chain letters at http://ciac.llnl.gov/ciac/CIACChainLetters.html As with any file, you should never run code from unknown sources because you always run the risk of downloading Trojan Horses or infected files. We have received reports of numerous Trojan Horses circulating the net, most of these have been aimed at AOL. Take a look at the article at: http://www.ncsa.com/aoltrojan/aolnews.html I've included what CIAC has said about viruses and e-mail. ***** Viruses need two things to progagate: (1) It needs to get a copy of itself on the target machine and (2) needs to be executed. CIAC still affirms that reading an e-mail message, even one with an attached program, can not do damage to a system. The attachment must be both downloaded onto the system and run to do any damage. ***** Thanks for contacting us, Rose ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Computer Incident Advisory Capability (CIAC) (510)422-8193 ciac@llnl.gov ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> --part0_885322488_boundary Content-ID: <0_885322488@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from relay17.mail.aol.com (relay17.mail.aol.com [172.31.106.71]) by air20.mail.aol.com (v37.8) with SMTP; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:02:30 -0500 Received: from coconut.tc.pw.com (coconut-ext.tc.pw.com [131.209.1.104]) by relay17.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id MAA16670; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:02:28 -0500 (EST) From: Steven_Hudoba@notes.pw.com Received: by coconut.tc.pw.com; id JAA21588; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:00:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from unknown(10.9.16.60) by coconut.tc.pw.com via smap (3.2) id xma021475; Tue, 20 Jan 98 09:00:19 -0800 Received: by fern.us.pw.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA18492; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:01:47 -0500 Message-Id: <199801201701.MAA18492@fern.us.pw.com> To: kphud@mn.uswest.net, TAHUDOBA@aol.com, tbroadbent@avhq.com, Skydvrr33@aol.com Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 08:03:24 PST Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit OK, so even the PW alert network is sometimes fooled... FYI................Following is a message received from the Computer Incident Advisory Capability (CIAC) the government agency which tracks and confirms whether or not viruses are valid. To: Brendan Brown cc: ciac @ llnl.gov @ Internet From: ciac @ llnl.gov @ Internet (Tampa-TSS-Gate6) Date: 01/19/98 04:44:52 PM PST Subject: CIAC#987978 Re: Re: VIRUS WARNING -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hi Brendan, "Join the Crew" "PenPal Greeting" "Returned or Unable to Deliver" These are all hoaxes. For more information reference our Web page at http://ciac.llnl.gov/ciac/CIACHoaxes.html Also, we now have a web page on chain letters at http://ciac.llnl.gov/ciac/CIACChainLetters.html As with any file, you should never run code from unknown sources because you always run the risk of downloading Trojan Horses or infected files. We have received reports of numerous Trojan Horses circulating the net, most of these have been aimed at AOL. Take a look at the article at: http://www.ncsa.com/aoltrojan/aolnews.html I've included what CIAC has said about viruses and e-mail. ***** Viruses need two things to progagate: (1) It needs to get a copy of itself on the target machine and (2) needs to be executed. CIAC still affirms that reading an e-mail message, even one with an attached program, can not do damage to a system. The attachment must be both downloaded onto the system and run to do any damage. ***** Thanks for contacting us, Rose ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Computer Incident Advisory Capability (CIAC) (510)422-8193 ciac@llnl.gov ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 4.0 Business Edition iQCVAgUBNMP1srnzJzdsy3QZAQF7FwQA3TrqyJ/IcOjKOLvFj6KsHExtWJ3CVdYq 4n/nDmK9a9ByNhX/O2RHOk0SRR0CIdGLA9H8LvW75HiwA06OWMKoG0/fXYq62Xfg tp/2D87r2+HPrQuCoAoVnRQsprjOPdLkjuqZzCVJQvWUFK7dVDebzr3Wlq02IC5f 3ofEmcpR990= =ilWH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --part0_885322488_boundary-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:04:05 -0800 Reply-To: ljm2001@ibm.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LJM Subject: Computer Virus Hoaxes Here's a list of the latest hoaxes from the Symantec web site, makers of Norton Antivirus (http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/hoax.html): "Although there are thousands of viruses discovered each year, there are still some that only exist in the imaginations of the public and the press. This is the comprehensive list of viruses that DO NOT EXIST, despite rumor of their creation and distribution. Please ignore any messages regarding these supposed "viruses" and do not pass on any messages about them. Passing on messages about these hoaxes only serves to further propagate them." 3b Trojan (alias PKZIP Virus) AOL4Free Virus Hoax Baby New Year Virus Hoax BUDDYLST.ZIP BUDSAVER.EXE Death69 Deeyenda FatCat Virus Hoax Free Money Ghost Good Times Hairy Palms Virus Hoax Irina > Join the Crew > Penpal Greetings Red Alert Returned or Unable to Deliver Time Bomb World Domination Hoax (new) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:50:13 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: Creating embedded indexes in Word 6--Help! In-Reply-To: <199801201655.LAA11496@camel9.mindspring.com> Mac and PC Word 6 both work the same as far as indexing goes, and I don't like either much. I keep old Mac 5.1 around to do some things that only it can do. Regardless, watch what you name your bookmarks. Keep them unique. You can see a list of them by choosing Edit > Bookmark, and you can see what each one covers with a Go To command. I have a Word cheat sheet I made up for a class on embedded indexing. If you want, I could send you a PDF file of it. This would require you to go to the Adobe site and download Adobe Acrobat to view the file with. If you are interested, send me an email off list. At 11:28 AM 1/20/98 EST, KArrigoni2 wrote: >Hi All, > >I'm going to be creating an embedded index for a client in Word 6 pretty >soon and need some advice. Most of the indexes I create are in CINDEX >and Frame, and I haven't created one in Word for quite some time--and >never in Word 6. > >I've used Word 5.1 for the Mac in the past to create indexes with no >problems, but Word 6 seems very different--especially when it comes to >page ranges. In Word 5.1, it's easy to create separate lines for all the >entries that pertain to a section and keep them all together, but in Word >6 it seems like you have to embed them within the text. Using >"bookmarks" to define page ranges also seems very confusing and it's not >covered too well in the manual. How do you keep track of all those >bookmarks? And how do you decide what to call them? > >Any help for going about this would be greatly appreciated! By the way, >I think the Windows version of Word 6 is pretty much the same as the Mac >version, so any advice from you Windows people would be appreciated too. > >Thanks, > >Karin Arrigoni > Jan <>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<> Jan C. Wright Wright Information Indexing Services jancw@mindspring.com http://www.mindspring.com/~jancw <>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:48:12 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: Editing Joanne E. Clendenen wrote: >>The most common error for me is to have a continuous page range that runs through a page with an unrelated photo or illustration. What is the best way to handle this situation? I recently did a textbook in which I ran into this. A relatively brief (3 paragraph) discussion was interrupted by so many photographs that it would have ended up looking like this: 231, 233-234, 236, 238, 240-241. (Pages 232, 235, 237, and 239 were only photos; pages 233-234, 236, 238, and 240 each had only about 4 lines of type on them, below the photographs.) A string of page ranges like that is bad enough for what is essentially a single discussion, but there were also several other, separate occurrences of the same topic, none of which really lent themselves to subheading. I ended up running the consecutive pages into a single range (231-241) so as not to clutter the index. Have I committed the ultimate heresy? (I should add that this was a junior high school textbook, and too many locators are likely to scare off a lot of readers at that age. I felt that they'd be able to figure out that the long range was continuous when they began to read it.) Is there a third way to handle this? Kara Pekar jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:13:36 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: William Meisheid Subject: Re: Creating embedded indexes in Word 6--Help! >Using "bookmarks" to define page ranges also seems very confusing and it's not covered too well in the manual. How do you keep track of all those bookmarks? And how do you decide what to call them? Carefully naming the bookmarks is the only way I know at present. I usually using the index term followed by some defining element as the bookmark name. e.g. macros_Creating_Debugging which covers macros and the range goes from the heading Creating to the heading Debugging. You could use page numbers if your document is relatively close to finalization but I avoid that since minor changes can through them way off. ______________________________________________________ William Meisheid "Thoughts still and always in progress" Certified RoboHELP Training http://www.sageline.com Sageline Publishing 410.465.1548 Fax: 410.465.1812 WUGNET/Help Authoring Forum - Sysop for: Style/Concepts/Etc E-mail: 70713.2225@compuserve.com or wgm@sageline.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:24:01 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: Editing + Ergonomics In-Reply-To: <199801201536.HAA08287@pacific.net> Sonsie wrote: >I turned on the "beep" in Macrex, which lets me know when an automatic save >is starting. This helped a lot with the problem of losing parts of entries >during saves. I'm working on a huge project right now that takes several >seconds to save, and I could easily lose most of an entry if I just kept >typing through the process. Yes, the beep has been a good addition. I set my saves at every 10 minutes, and then also use the beep to remind me to stretch (usually just sitting in my chair), because I can sit for four or five hours at a time, never moving, which is terrible for the body. The recommendation is (to repeat something I've said here before) for every 10 minutes of a repetitive activity (which includes sitting) stand up and stretch for 10 seconds. The 10/10 Rule. But even just giving a full stretch down through my feet, laying back, every 10 minutes makes a huge difference. It makes a huge difference in my mental capacities, too, because I find a stagnant body makes a stagnant mind. Best, Victoria ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:50:12 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SCTopping Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Editing On the matter of checking page locators, I mark text thoroughly, so that I don't have to look up from the page too often, but I have formed the habit of glancing at the screen every 8-10 entries. This gives me a quick "snapshot" and I can fix typos on the spot. I will look up anytime it "feels wrong" -- usually to find I've made a typo. My proprioception must be very finely tuned! In the editing process, I prefer to do one thing at a time -- I will check main entries (single), then entries with subentries, then page numbers. It's hard at first to keep yourself from looking where you're not supposed to, but if you practice, you can scan an index for page numbers very quickly, picking up any wierd ones. So I guess I check twice -- once as I'm making the entry and once when I've finished all entries. Of course, this is all done BEFORE printing out the draft copy -- I find that simply changing what I'm looking at from screen to paper helps me notice things I hadn't seen before. Note to Carol Roberts: Item 13 in your list should read "Bubble Bath with Glenfiddich on the side, candles and jacuzzi optional but greatly favored." En pointe, Sandy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:31:56 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: BethJT Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Cindex for the Mac In a message dated 1/18/98 10:52:49 PM, Carol wrote: >Yes, it should do a spellcheck. I assume that the English dictionary is in >the Cindex folder on your hard drive? OK, try this: go into your >preferences folder (in your System folder) and drag your Cindex preferences >file into the trash; then reinstall Cindex, which will create a new Cindex >preferences file (like doing a clean install for Cindex). Often when you >reinstall a program, the computer replaces only what's new. If the >preferences file is corrupted, it won't get fixed when you reinstall unless >you first trash the previous one. Good luck. I'd be interested to hear >whether this worked. I found that when I first reinstalled but before I restarted the spellchecker would not work. After I had made some changes in the preferences and restarted the computer the next day, I found that the spellchecker suddenly started working. It of course chose the most embarrassing moment to do this -- right when Francis Lennie was walking me through some possible fixes. I'm glad to know that there is some concrete reason for this behavior. I should have thought about dumping the preferences file -- I know such files have given me trouble with other programs. Thanks again, Carol. Beth ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:22:05 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Joel S. Berson" Subject: Re: Fwd: computer viruses--validity Remember that saving and then using a template in MS Word *execute* that template. Viruses can exist in templates, as was noted by Nancy Noyes [excerpted]: A former employer had several infected files that she received when she copied a file from someone else's PC (a legal document template, no less!), ... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 00:20:51 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: Editing In-Reply-To: <199801201742.JAA22349@pacific.net> Janet wrote: >Do many of you (any of you) check your main entry/ same as subentry "pairs" >this way? I always do. I found that too many times I forgot to add page numbers to all the locations of an entry, so I only input page numbers at one place (perhaps main entry), while inserting, instead, a searchable string ("{$$$}") at other instances (perhaps a subentry somewhere). When I get to the editing stage, one of my tasks is to use Macrex's Group Mode to collect all of the entries containing that searchable string. I use "print screen" to print them out, then with list in hand I find each instance and either write the page numbers on my printout or dupe the entry onscreen and do it that way (depending on how many and how complex the locators are). I then enter the page numbers in the file, crossing each off on my printout, and end with another Group Mode on that string to make sure I got them all. The way I do this is so mechanical that I spend far less time than I did when I went through comparing locator strings. As someone mentioned, the discipline of only looking at the index one way as I go through helps me reveal mistakes and gives me inspirations. Plus, with the printout in front of me, if I go off on a tangent, rewriting or inserting a cross-reference thread, I always come back to where I left off, which was not always true when I was doing it my old way. This is one of the ways I've found for myself to speed up my editing time and increase accuracy. Gale Rhoades helped me to develop it, btw. I also would like to hear how others compare their entries, as I'm always seeking to improve my process. Best, Victoria ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 06:47:23 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Joanne E. Clendenen" Organization: AfterWords Indexing Services Subject: Re: Editing Kara asked about doing continous discussions across pages with photos. In your case, I'd say you're suffering from a bad layout designer more than anything. They really shouldn't have just a few lines of text under a photo like that, but we can't control these things. Normally I would put the longer string of discontinous page locators for accuracy, but you did exactly what you were supposed to do, I think; consider your audience. I have a junior high child, and I agree that the long string of pages would scare him off. Good decision! Joanne -- AfterWords Indexing Services Joanne E. Clendenen email: jbclend@bigfoot.com http://www.flash.net/~jbclend ---------------- "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not any simpler." Einstein ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:07:15 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Re: Editing I understand Cindex 6 has capabilities to automatically propagate changes in main headings. I got it last year but the first 2-3 times I used it I was pretty happy until time came to Print/File for Word. When I went into Word the file was nowhere near what I wanted. It seems like you have to do like 25 different "SET" commands before you can get things straight. Each time I gave it about 3 whacks and then gave up, reading the file into Cindex 5 where I can handle everything I need in 1 single SET FORMAT. In the rush of a deadline I have no time for this kind of stress! This left a bad taste but I know that Cindex 6 is the way to go eventually. This whole discussion has got me to thinking more about Cindex 6. I have this huge project now where I basically have to edit and alphabetize an index done by someone else. It's a compilation of other work I've done for them and get this: the total number of records is gonna be on the order of 120,000. If this automatic propagation thing could help me it will save a ton of time. Any tips? Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty but only the pig enjoys it. First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:27:50 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Editing At 09:07 AM 1/21/98 -0500, you wrote: > I understand Cindex 6 has capabilities to automatically propagate >changes in main headings. I got it last year but the first 2-3 times I used >it I was pretty happy until time came to Print/File for Word. When I went >into Word the file was nowhere near what I wanted. It seems like you have >to do like 25 different "SET" commands before you can get things straight. Can you expand a bit? This scenario doesn't compute for me. There is no connection between propagate and Print. If you have propagated changes, you would see the changes in Cindex and nothing you could do with the Print command could change that in the resulting file. There is ony one set command: SET GENERAL, wherein you set "Edit propagate" to Y or N. The scenario for using propagate is this. Suppose you have the following raw records: cats_breeding cats_feeding cats_petting this generates the structure: cats breeding feeding petting If you want to change cats to felines, you can propagate the change by simply changing the first record. The change progagates through subsequent records (as long as they are in the same structure) resulting in raw records of: felines_breeding felines_feeding felines_petting If you print the resulting records, there is no way they will change in transit. Dick Evans ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:31:24 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Anne Taylor Subject: A favor... Hello All, I need to ask a favor of some kind person on the list: Could someone who has marketed their services to academic publishers please email me sample phrases from their pitch? I've written a basic letter, but I'm officially paranoid about what to say or not say. I've not done a paid index, yet; just one for my own website. Humor: I think I've found my niche. Given the amount of booing, hissing, and Bronx cheering eminating from this quarter at the mention of deconstructionism and revisionism, these works would appear to be suffering a shortage of willing indexers... Anne Insecurity is like a slip that's too long. No matter how much pulling, hitching, tugging, and rolling you do, it's still peeking out beneath the hem of your skirt. Anne Cleester Taylor University of Missouri-St. Louis Thomas Jefferson Library Reference ataylor@umsl.edu http://www.umsl.edu/~ataylor ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:44:46 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Macrex: automatic saves At 07:23 AM 1/20/98 -0800, Sonsie wrote: >At 09:30 AM 1/20/1998 -0500, John and Kara Pekar wrote: > >>I don't check every page locator at the end, but I do spot-check as well as >>double-check anything which looks weird. One problem I've had is that >>Macrex won't accept characters when it is doing a timed backup. Since my >>backups can take only a second, if I don't look up at the screen, I've >>missed a letter, or worse, a digit or two of a page number, without >>realizing it. Now, I try to look at the screen before I hit enter, to make >>sure I got the page numbers right. It may be slightly slower, but it beats >>leafing back through, trying to figure out whether 24 was supposed to be >>124, 240-something, 204, 2-4, etc. > >I turned on the "beep" in Macrex, which lets me know when an automatic save >is starting. This helped a lot with the problem of losing parts of entries >during saves. I'm working on a huge project right now that takes several >seconds to save, and I could easily lose most of an entry if I just kept >typing through the process. > > =Sonsie= Ha! An opportunity to add a humorous touch! Fellow Macrex users, if this is a problem for you, you can eliminate it simply by not running any more automatic saves -- and you can eliminate it even in manual saves by not running any more of them either! Seriously, I quit saving my .ind files during work sessions some time ago after I suffered power outages on two different occasions and found upon reopening my index that some of the saved data, that is long-saved data, was missing. Somehow or other, though this may not happen often, one or more of the files must have got corrupted. This experience turned the light on for me: since you can't absolutely depend on such saves, there's no need to put up with their tiresome interruptions, especially since you can save your work in .mbk files like lightning by comparison. I use an Alt-F1 macro to accomplish this: left thumb and forefinger and it's done. Of course the procedure is not automatic, but since it's so fast there's every incentive to develop the habit -- and I probably do it at least once every 5-10 minutes. I end the macro with "i" to put me back in editing mode, and this enables me to get in a save -- and renew my practice of saving -- whenever I need to go to the top of my index: from Edit mode, Group mode, or Add mode. It's almost as fast as Ctrl-PgUp. The only times I do do a save is when I need to enable a changed keyword and before I want to test a macro the consequences of which I don't feel sure about. In the first case I have to use the "Write" procedure from the title screen, but in the second case I use the undocumented command Alt-1 because it saves on the spot without taking you away from your place in the index. (On quitting, of course, Macrex iself saves all the .ind files automatically so that everything's ready for the next work session.) After a power outage I delete my .ind files with DELDEX and start a new index with my latest .mbk file. This is a bit of a drag, of course, but there's nothing missing except what I didn't save after my last Alt-F1 -- and I don't have to suffer through endless save interruptions. Cheers, Michael P.S. Victoria, I just read your post on making good use of save times: I absolutely agree on the importance of taking ergonomic breaks and surely can improve on my own routine, but for me save interruptions are too annoying to put up with unnecessarily, especially since the saves not completely reliable. Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 916 272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:44:52 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: Editing steps At 01:42 AM 1/20/98 -0600, Carol Roberts wrote: >>After the entries have been keyed in, what are the best steps to take next? >>Check spelling, edit entries etc. Thank you. > >Good question. I do some of my editing as I'm inputting and some at the end >(because I don't always want to commit until later). I always do the >spelling check after the editing, because then I can catch any typos added >during the editing stage. Here are my steps: > >1. edit > >2. look at queries and see which I can answer using assorted encyclopedias > >3. add the queries to the notes to the editor and list of typos, which I've >accumulated in the course of indexing > >4. check formatting against client's specs > >5. spelling check; proofread (on screen) > >6. export to MS Word > >7. adjust formatting (double-space, change font, etc.) > >8. add headnote if necessary > >9. change apostrophes and quote marks to "smart quotes" (i.e., curved marks) > >10. change cross-refs to roman where the word that follows is in itals > >11. add any diacritics Cindex doesn't do > >12. ship & bill > >13. bubble bath > >Hope I haven't left out anything important. Thanks very much for this fine list, Carol! I want to list the two procedures that Kevin mentioned and that I too always use: -- cross reference check -- pno check for out-of-range page numbers If I have the time, I find it helpful to do a kind of super pno check in Group mode: by grouping on a page number not only will all the headings with that page number be displayed, -- all the other page numbers that have been entered after those headings will be displayed too. Thus it's easy to see whether all page numbers have been properly multiple-posted, and Macrex's new Group mode string buffer makes it easy to augment complex page numbers. Takes awhile though. Also, given enough time, I check for unmatched pairs of parentheses or quotation marks as described in the latest Macrex News. (In a few words, this is a matter of opening a backup file, adding backslashes or carets to these marks with find and replace, and importing the new file: since Macrex won't accept backslashes or carets unless in pairs, all cases of unmatched parentheses or quotation marks will be rejected -- and identified -- in the process.) In complex indexes I run a quick check in Group mode to catch any extra subheading level I might have created by mistake: in Macrex, the string ", ?+, ?+, [{~^\\]*:a", for example, will catch any subsubsub that I, given my entry procedures, could create. One more thing: I use a query string, "{~ ???~}", anywhere in an entry -- even after a page number -- to remind me of any question I need to resolve. I enter this string with a keyword, Alt-x. The braces ("curly brackets") are to hide the string from the sort; the tildes are to make it stand out in my color scheme and to prevent it from being printed in case I want to leave it in the file; and the space is for the cursor to make it easy to cut out the string after I've resolved the question. I add any specifics I want inside. Michael Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 916 272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:02:28 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kevin & Jennifer A. Broccoli" Subject: Re: Editing steps Michael: What is Macrex News? A newsletter with Macrex tips? I have & use Macrex and don't know anything about a newsletter. Could you post info on this? Kevin A. Broccoli Broccoli Indexing Services E-mail: nifkev@juno.com 181 Sundown Rd. Grahamsville, NY 12740 (914)-985-9465 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:49:01 -0800 Reply-To: Sharon Keever Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Keever Subject: Re: Seattle on the cheap In-Reply-To: <9801162311.AA06671@beta.tricity.wsu.edu> Re: Seattle on the cheap It might be worth while to check with colleges and universities in the area. I have stayed in dorm rooms at a couple campuses (none in Seattle). In both cases, charges were less than $20.00 per night. One of the colleges did require that I be there for a university function, though, so maybe it wouldn't work. Biggest drawback is that the bathroom is down the hall! I purchase a half-price hotel card each year and there are several downtown Seattle hotels through that program. I've used one and the cost was fairly reasonable. Seattle does have good bus service, and if I remember correctly, there is a "free fare" area downtown. Sharon Keever On the *other* side of Washington> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:54:10 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: Editing steps At 09:02 PM 1/21/98 -0500, you wrote: >Michael: > >What is Macrex News? A newsletter with Macrex tips? I have & use Macrex >and don't know anything about a newsletter. Could you post info on this? > >Kevin A. Broccoli >Broccoli Indexing Services >E-mail: nifkev@juno.com >181 Sundown Rd. Grahamsville, NY 12740 >(914)-985-9465 > Kevin: Gale Rhoades of the Macrex office puts it out. Contact her at Macrex@aol.com. Did you get my message on the British chess master A. Burn? And did you find out anything more about him? Michael