From: SMTP%"LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu" 26-MAR-1998 05:26:03.26 To: CIRJA02 CC: Subj: File: "INDEX-L LOG9801D" Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 04:42:48 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9801D" To: CIRJA02@GSVMS1.CC.GASOU.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:15:17 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: AllWrite N Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Macrex: automatic saves This brings up another good point that should be made: If you rely on a PC/Mac for your business, you should invest in a battery back-up to protect you from data damage and loss in the event of power surges, brownouts and blackouts. Make sure it is of the proper wattage, etc to handle your system (eg: when I got my new Dell I had to get a larger BBU to handle all the extra power and current draw it had over my old Compaq -- sort of like trying to jumpstart your car with batteries from your flashlight...). When there is a glitch in power, it 'absorbs the impact', so-to-speak by providing a smooth, uninterrupted power source; and when the power fails completely, you have approximately 5-10 minutes to safely close out whatever you are working on and shut down your computer. It has saved my hide (and work!) on many occasions! For those who wish to turn off their automatic saves, this will offer some protection from the forces of nature. NancyNoyes All Write ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:33:50 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carme Masague Organization: Universitat de Barcelona Subject: Multilingual Thesauri Hi INDEX-Lers, Could someone tell me if there is a USMARC Format for Authority Data for Multilingual Thesauri? Thank you in advance, Carmen Masague cmasague@adq.bib.ub.es ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:18:12 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: Macrex: automatic saves In-Reply-To: <199801221437.GAA04355@mail-gw.pacbell.net> Nancy made an excellent point about the advantages of connecting an UPS (uninterruptible power supply) to your system. Here's an experience I had that illustrates the advantages of a UPS and Macrex's automatic saves. Some of you may remember the huge power outage in the summer of '96 that affected 7 Western states and parts of Canada and Mexico. When it occured, I had Macrex running on both computers and a different index on each. (Hubby and my daughter were working on one index while I worked on another.) Well, when the power went down, the UPS (connected to the Pentium) immediately alerted me by beeping like crazy and I was able to save my work and exit everything gracefully before shutting down the Pentium. OTOH, the 486 was not connected to an UPS and it immediately crashed hard. However, Macrex had performed an automatic save since my daughter had walked away from the computer. When we brought Macrex up after power was restored and loaded the index, it was perfectly intact. The result was that no data was lost on either system. (Yes, I know I need to either get an UPS for the 486 or buy a more powerful UPS that I can connect both systems to. ;-D) Despite my good experience with reloading indexes that were automatically saved by Macrex, Michael Brackney's poor experience has caused me to reconsider relying on the automatic save alone. So, many thanks, Mike, for the Alt-1 and the macro for saving to a .mbk file tips!!!!! Lynn At 09:15 AM 1/22/98 EST, Nancy wrote: >This brings up another good point that should be made: If you rely on a >PC/Mac for your business, you should invest in a battery back-up to protect >you from data damage and loss in the event of power surges, brownouts and >blackouts. Make sure it is of the proper wattage, etc to handle your system >(eg: when I got my new Dell I had to get a larger BBU to handle all the extra >power and current draw it had over my old Compaq -- sort of like trying to >jumpstart your car with batteries from your flashlight...). When there is a >glitch in power, it 'absorbs the impact', so-to-speak by providing a smooth, >uninterrupted power source; and when the power fails completely, you have >approximately 5-10 minutes to safely close out whatever you are working on and >shut down your computer. It has saved my hide (and work!) on many occasions! >For those who wish to turn off their automatic saves, this will offer some >protection from the forces of nature. > >NancyNoyes >All Write > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:12:48 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: Macrex: automatic saves In-Reply-To: <199801211848.KAA07499@mail-gw2.pacbell.net> At 10:44 AM 1/21/98 -0800, Michael wrote: >The only times I do do a save is when I need to enable a changed keyword and >before I want to test a macro the consequences of which I don't feel sure >about. In the first case I have to use the "Write" procedure from the title >screen, but in the second case I use the undocumented command Alt-1 because >it saves on the spot without taking you away from your place in the index. >(On quitting, of course, Macrex iself saves all the .ind files automatically >so that everything's ready for the next work session.) Michael, I'm very glad you brought this up about enabling changed keywords. I happen to be doing a lot of this in my current index which has a lot of terms that contain the same strings for keywords I've created before encountering them. (Apparently the software designers also thought the same strings I create for keywords are good for the names of reports, parameters, etc. they created for the software. Aiiiish!!!! This is yet another good reason for glancing at the screen whenever you make an entry: to catch unwanted expansions of keywords.) Anyway, sometimes just going back to the Macrex's main menu (as directed in the manual) seems to enable the changed keywords. At other times, I've had to totally exit Macrex and restart it to enable them, a real timewaster. Are you saying that saving the index is what consistently enables them? TIA!!! BTW, Gale Rhodes and I have had interesting conversations about keystrokes being lost during automatic saves. (Actually, I used to complain to her about it. ;-D) I told her that this isn't a problem in programs like MS Word, which apparently reads the keyboard buffer immediately after an automatic save and captures keystrokes made during that time. She told me that Macrex *flushes* the keyboard buffer as a safety feature to prevent data loss. I don't know why data can be lost if the buffer is read (maybe Windows handles this differently than DOS does), but that's why Macrex does this, in case anyone is wondering. Lynn ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:43:00 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Msg Recipient Subject: Mail failure TO: Lynn Moncrief DATE: 01-22-98 TIME: 10:43 SUBJECT: Mail failure ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [021] Message was not delivered due to missing routing file. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Lynn Moncrief [SMTP:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU] To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L [SMTP:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU] Date: 1998-01-22 08:12 Subject: Re: Macrex: automatic saves --------------------------------------------------------------------------- At 10:44 AM 1/21/98 -0800, Michael wrote: >The only times I do do a save is when I need to enable a changed keyword and >before I want to test a macro the consequences of which I don't feel sure >about. In the first case I have to use the "Write" procedure from the title >screen, but in the second case I use the undocumented command Alt-1 because >it saves on the spot without taking you away from your place in the index. >(On quitting, of course, Macrex iself saves all the .ind files automatically >so that everything's ready for the next work session.) Michael, I'm very glad you brought this up about enabling changed keywords. I happen to be doing a lot of this in my current index which has a lot of terms that contain the same strings for keywords I've created before encountering them. (Apparently the software designers also thought the same strings I create for keywords are good for the names of reports, parameters, etc. they created for the software. Aiiiish!!!! This is yet another good reason for glancing at the screen whenever you make an entry: to catch unwanted expansions of keywords.) Anyway, sometimes just going back to the Macrex's main menu (as directed in the manual) seems to enable the changed keywords. At other times, I've had to totally exit Macrex and restart it to enable them, a real timewaster. Are you saying that saving the index is what consistently enables them? TIA!!! BTW, Gale Rhodes and I have had interesting conversations about keystrokes being lost during automatic saves. (Actually, I used to complain to her about it. ;-D) I told her that this isn't a problem in programs like MS Word, which apparently reads the keyboard buffer immediately after an automatic save and captures keystrokes made during that time. She told me that Macrex *flushes* the keyboard buffer as a safety feature to prevent data loss. I don't know why data can be lost if the buffer is read (maybe Windows handles this differently than DOS does), but that's why Macrex does this, in case anyone is wondering. Lynn ------------------------- Original message header: >MAIL FROM: >RCPT TO: >DATA >Received: from listserv.cuny.edu (listserv.cuny.edu [128.228.100.10]) by fafhrd.SDState.Edu (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id KAA15690 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:43:17 -0600 (CST) >Message-Id: <199801221643.KAA15690@fafhrd.SDState.Edu> >Received: from listserv (128.228.100.10) by listserv.cuny.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.4641D0B0@listserv.cuny.edu>; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:38:35 -0500 >Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:12:48 -0800 >Reply-To: "Indexer's Discussion Group" >Sender: "Indexer's Discussion Group" >From: Lynn Moncrief >Subject: Re: Macrex: automatic saves >X-To: Indexer's Discussion Group >To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > >In-Reply-To: <199801211848.KAA07499@mail-gw2.pacbell.net> ------------------------- End of message header. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:17:53 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Trish Wittenstein Subject: Re: Macrex: automatic saves Macrex users: Michael Brackney wrote: > there's no need to put up with their tiresome >interruptions, especially since you can save your work in .mbk files like >lightning by comparison. I use an Alt-F1 macro to accomplish this: left >thumb and forefinger and it's done. Of course the procedure is not >automatic, but since it's so fast there's every incentive to develop the >habit -- and I probably do it at least once every 5-10 minutes. I do this too, except that the macro also includes a command to save to a floppy in drive A. I have three floppies that I rotate through drive A, about every half hour or so. That way, I've only lost a half hour's worth of work if something happens. I learned this trick from Gale Rhodes at a Macrex training session in Denver two years ago. I'd highly recommend this training to Macrex users for ideas such as this that can save time, as well as heartache. I believe there'll be one in Seattle this year. Trish Wittenstein Three Rivers, CA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:15:24 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Request for Bids for Thesaurus Construction (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:42:27 -0800 (PST) From: "S. Dodson" Subject: Request for Bids for Thesaurus Construction Request for Bids for Thesaurus Construction Background: University of Washington Medical Center's UWMC Health On-Line is a long-range project by the Department of Patient and Family Education Services with the goal of providing health care professionals with an inventory and Web access to patient education materials available throughout the Medical Center. In support of this project, University of Washington Medical Center's Patient and Family Education Services department is soliciting bids for the building and maintenance of a patient education thesaurus to be used in the abstracting and indexing of materials added to the database. Thesaurus development is needed for approximately 30 broad subject categories. Thesaurus construction would entail the following: *Reviewing and researching terms suggested by UWMC Health On-Line's project coordinator for inclusion in the thesaurus as to appropriateness and suitability for describing and indexing patient education documents and Web sites.. *Structuring terms within the existing hierarchically-arranged thesaurus. *Providing enhancements to controlled vocabulary in the form of notes to indexers (definitional, usage, etc), synonyms and alternate terms (variant spelling, words with similar meanings, etc), and links to related terms and concepts. Required qualifications of thesaurus editor: *An MLS degree or significant progress toward an MLS degree or demonstrated experience in thesaurus development. *Experience using MS Word and MS Excel. The desired completion date for the thesaurus is 6/30/98, extendable to 8/31/98. Bids must be for $9,999 or less. Bids may be faxed, mailed or emailed to the person and address below by 5:00pm, 2/4/98. Questions may also be addressed to the person below. Sherry Dodson Clinical Medical Librarian Health Sciences Libraries and Information Center, Box 357155 University of Washington Seattle, WA 98195 Fax: (206) 543-8066 Phone: (206) 543-7493 Email: sdodson@u.washington.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:11:39 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Manke, Kristin L" Subject: Indexing radioactive waste tanks Hi, I'm building an index (my first one) for a web site that discusses work to remediate radioactive waste tanks at four national sites. The web site contains several references to specific tanks at specific sites (only abouut 10 of the 273 tanks are mentioned by name). I've tried indexing the information under the appropriate site (see below). I also tried indexing them under the tank identification (W-3, Tank at Oak Ridge Reservation; 241-AX-104 at Hanford Site) and under Tank (Tank = W-3, Tank 241-AX-104, Tank 17). Any thoughts or suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated. Please send them to me directly (kristin.manke@pnl.gov) or to the list, whichever you prefer. Thanks again, Kristin O Oak Ridge Reservation =A0 Tank W-3 =A0=A0 debris removal =A0=A0 wall coring =A0 Tank W-4 =A0=A0 waste retrieval completed equipment setup =A0=A0=A0Tank W-9 =A0=A0 waste addition =20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:33:07 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Indexlady Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: ZyImage Indexing Software Hi! I have a colleague who uses ZyImage (sp?) indexing software to build indexes. What type of indexing is this software best used for? Thanks! Dawn indexlady@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:29:34 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: propagating changes in Cindex (was: editing) In-Reply-To: <199801220510.XAA06643@mixcom.mixcom.com> >If this automatic propagation thing could help me it will save a >ton of time. Any tips? > Kevin, I have Cindex for Mac, so I don't if this applies, but... One thing I've noticed about propagating changes is that you have to change just the one line (e.g., the main heading. If you make a change to the main heading and then a change to a subentry all in the same move, the change to the main heading won't propogate. So what I do is change the main heading, enter it (or, in Mac version, move to the next sub and back again, which seems to register the propagation), and then go back and tinker with subs as needed. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:33:18 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David K. Ream" Subject: Re: ZyImage Indexing Software Dawn, > I have a colleague who uses ZyImage (sp?) indexing software to build indexes. > What type of indexing is this software best used for? > This software scans document files and builds an "index", really a concordance, of the words in the files for doing search & retrieval using boolean operations. It is not an index in the sense of a browsable, botb index. I haven't looked at the product lately so I can't speak to all its current features or usages. Dave Ream Leverage Technologies, Inc. Cleveland, OH 440-838-1203 E-mail: DaveReam@LevTechInc.com Web: http://www.LevTechInc.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:57:27 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11 Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Urgent terminology queston Help, somebody who knows about demographics! Is there a term that includes both birthrates and fertility rates? (These two are being thrown back and forth in the same discussion.) The index is due tomorrow, so if you know, hope to hear from you soon! Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:34:49 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Macrex: keywords At 08:12 AM 1/22/98 -0800, Lynn wrote: >At 10:44 AM 1/21/98 -0800, Michael wrote: > >>The only times I do do a save is when I need to enable a changed keyword and >>before I want to test a macro the consequences of which I don't feel sure >>about. In the first case I have to use the "Write" procedure from the title >>screen, but in the second case I use the undocumented command Alt-1 because >>it saves on the spot without taking you away from your place in the index. >>(On quitting, of course, Macrex iself saves all the .ind files automatically >>so that everything's ready for the next work session.) > >Michael, > >I'm very glad you brought this up about enabling changed keywords. I happen >to be doing a lot of this in my current index which has a lot of terms that >contain the same strings for keywords I've created before encountering >them. (Apparently the software designers also thought the same strings I >create for keywords are good for the names of reports, parameters, etc. >they created for the software. Aiiiish!!!! This is yet another good reason >for glancing at the screen whenever you make an entry: to catch unwanted >expansions of keywords.) Aiiiish!!!! indeed, Lynn. I too create mnemonic keywords, and keep many in standard lists, but I encounter this problem very rarely so when it actually has come up I've found it rather amusing. Wish I could think of a funny example. >Anyway, sometimes just going back to the Macrex's main menu (as directed in >the manual) seems to enable the changed keywords. At other times, I've had >to totally exit Macrex and restart it to enable them, a real timewaster. >Are you saying that saving the index is what consistently enables them? TIA!!! The manual says that changed keywords have to be enabled by resorting the index, and that this can be done simply, if you have automatic sort turned on, by moving to the Sort, Merge, or Print module and then back to the Main Menu. Some time ago it occurred to me that a save occurs in each case and I wondered whether that's what's really responsible for enabling changed keywords -- especially since I couldn't imagine what resorting could have to do with it -- so I tried doing a Write only, and bingo!, it worked. I just now tried doing this with automatic sort off, and it works too. I've never found any need to exit Macrex to enable changed keywords. That is necessary only to increase the number of keywords available. Yes, Alt-1 is a real find. I stumbled into it one day when I hit Alt-1 instead of Alt-F1 when trying to run my save macro. Here's another undocumented command I found: Ctrl-PgUp as a way of reinitiating Group mode from the top of the index (Enter regroups from the top line of the current group -- which is helpful at times). In the lastest version, of course, Ctrl--Up Arrow does the same thing. Anybody else found any others? Michael Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 530-272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:34:54 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: Editing At 12:20 AM 1/21/98 LCL, Victoria wrote: >Janet wrote: >>Do many of you (any of you) check your main entry/ same as subentry "pairs" >>this way? I always do. > >I found that too many times I forgot to add page numbers to all the >locations of an entry, so I only input page numbers at one place (perhaps >main entry), while inserting, instead, a searchable string ("{$$$}") at >other instances (perhaps a subentry somewhere). When I get to the editing >stage, one of my tasks is to use Macrex's Group Mode to collect all of the >entries containing that searchable string. I use "print screen" to print >them out, then with list in hand I find each instance and either write the >page numbers on my printout or dupe the entry onscreen and do it that way >(depending on how many and how complex the locators are). I then enter the >page numbers in the file, crossing each off on my printout, and end with >another Group Mode on that string to make sure I got them all. > >The way I do this is so mechanical that I spend far less time than I did >when I went through comparing locator strings. As someone mentioned, the >discipline of only looking at the index one way as I go through helps me >reveal mistakes and gives me inspirations. Plus, with the printout in >front of me, if I go off on a tangent, rewriting or inserting a >cross-reference thread, I always come back to where I left off, which was >not always true when I was doing it my old way. > >This is one of the ways I've found for myself to speed up my editing time >and increase accuracy. Gale Rhoades helped me to develop it, btw. > >I also would like to hear how others compare their entries, as I'm always >seeking to improve my process. This is a very interesting discussion for me too: I find catching unduplicated page numbers to be quite a challenge, in terms of striving for both excellence and economy. Janet, I'm not sure what you mean by "this way" when you write about checking pairs of entries, but I suppose you're referring to using Group mode. Is this correct? If so, I'm wondering whether you ever do this or think you could do this carefully enough in the process of creating an index so as not to have to do it at all during final editing. Victoria, your method sounds like a neat innovation. When I was studying with my teacher I suggested something similar: leaving multiple posting entirely to the editing stage, but he countered that it's important to do it while creating entries because it's right while we're creating particular entries that we can best decide what multiple posts are needed, and that in so doing we can see the emerging structure of our indexes. So I've been doing all my multiple posting as I go, and automating the process sometimes by grouping my posts before adding a new locator, and then, if there are three or more posts, creating an ad hoc macro as I add a locator to the first post, ending the macro with "Enter" and "Line Down", and then reusing the macro to add the locator to each of the other posts. If I understand you correctly you're saying you create your multiple posts at the first opportunity, but add dummy page refs to all of them to remind yourself in the editing stage to add whatever number of locators you end up adding to your first, or primary, post. If this is correct, I wonder whether it would be to combine my suggestion with yours by creating all needed multiple posts as we go and adding a dummy page ref (like my old "{~ DP~}" for "double post") to only the primary one, and then in the editing stage searching out the dummy refs, grouping on the headings they occur in, and then maybe re-multiple posting as a way of propagating the added page numbers, or just copying locator strings between posts. Another question: I missed the context of your statement, "As someone mentioned, the discipline of only looking at the index one way as I go through helps me reveal mistakes and gives me inspirations." Will you please explain this? Thanks. Regards, Michael Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 530-272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:46:18 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Nancy A. Guenther" Subject: Re: Macrex: keywords >> Aiiiish!!!! This is yet another good reason >>for glancing at the screen whenever you make an entry: to catch unwanted >>expansions of keywords.) I've used Macrex for years for indexing but since I moved to Sky Index last fall I haven't been following this thread in too much detail. If I understand the above comment it is referring to times when keywords need to remain as typed & not expand. One solution I would offer is create your mneumonic but precede it with ; (semicolon) as in ;asi. Since the key is right under your fingers, it is very efficient. Since normal use almost always has a space following you are not likely to have unintended expansion. Nancy Guenther nanguent@chesco.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:14:27 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Re: Propagating changes Dick Evans wrote: >At 09:07 AM 1/21/98 -0500, you wrote: >> I understand Cindex 6 has capabilities to automatically propagate >>changes in main headings. I got it last year but the first 2-3 times I used >>it I was pretty happy until time came to Print/File for Word. When I went >>into Word the file was nowhere near what I wanted. It seems like you have >>to do like 25 different "SET" commands before you can get things straight. > >Can you expand a bit? This scenario doesn't compute for me. > Thanks Dick and Carol for your help When I looked at the manual I realized my actual goal could not be accomplished by "propagation". Here's what I really want to do. I have a vast number of terms of the type Lead Lead [122-22-34] Lead [122-22-3] To be precise there will be about 100,000! The numbers are CAS registry numbers. What I want to do is quickly combine them under one CAS registry number. In this example [122-22-3] would be a typo and would need to be combined with the [122-22-3]. To give you some feel there would probably be on the order of 30 terms under just Lead, another 30 under Lead [122-22-34], and an assorted 2-3 incorrectly written registry numbers as in the example above. Ideally I would like to be able to select the entire group of terms and instantly make them all Lead [122-22-34]. Otherwise the only option I know is my "alt 1" procedure described in my recent editing post. I realize now that propagation of main entry editing changes would only work for a group of terms that all originally had the same exact main heading. These would be different terms and this wouldn't apply. Anyway what I'd really like is some sort of intelligent software that would go through, flag these up on the screen, using an algorithm that would ignore the numbers and group these together, ask me to identify the one to key on, then make them all match this one. Is there such a product? Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty but only the pig enjoys it. First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:19:36 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: Urgent terminology queston At 04:57 PM 1/22/98 EST, DStaub11 wrote: >Help, somebody who knows about demographics! Is there a term that includes >both birthrates and fertility rates? (These two are being thrown back and >forth in the same discussion.) The index is due tomorrow, so if you know, hope >to hear from you soon! > >Do Mi > > Hi Do Mi, Birth rate is the number of live births per 1,000 total population (often called crude birth rate). Fertility rate is the average number of children a woman is expected to have during her lifetime. Also given as live births per 1000 women aged 15-44. Also called "true" birth rate. So, technically speaking, these rates are really not exactly the same. Other terms might be natality, fecundity (some reservations on that one), reproductive rate... Hope this helps. ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen Freelance Indexer Bertelsen Indexing Services cbertel@usit.net Editor-in-Chief, KEY WORDS, American Society of Indexers Web page: http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 23:51:55 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Propagating changes At 07:14 PM 1/22/98 -0500, you wrote: >To be precise there will be about 100,000! The numbers are CAS registry >numbers. What I want to do is quickly combine them under one CAS registry >number. In this example [122-22-3] would be a typo and would need to be >combined with the [122-22-3]. To give you some feel there would probably be >on the order of 30 terms under just Lead, another 30 under Lead [122-22-34], >and an assorted 2-3 incorrectly written registry numbers as in the example >above. Ideally I would like to be able to select the entire group of terms >and instantly make them all Lead [122-22-34]. Why not a SUBSTITUTE with a pattern? I realize it's not really automated, but for the example you have given you could: 1. Create a group by finding every primary that begins with Lead: FI/FIE=1/PAT ^Lead 2. Change every primary in that group to the same thing: 2.a Enter SUB/FIE=1/PAT ^Lead?* 2.b When Cindex asks for the replacement string, enter: Lead[122-22-34] Repeat as required for other strings. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:24:37 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: Editing In-Reply-To: <199801222242.OAA01739@pacific.net> Michael wrote: >If I understand you correctly you're saying you create your multiple posts >at the first opportunity, but add dummy page refs to all of them to remind >yourself in the editing stage to add whatever number of locators you end up >adding to your first, or primary, post. If this is correct, I wonder >whether it would be to combine my suggestion with yours by creating all >needed multiple posts as we go and adding a dummy page ref (like my old "{~ >DP~}" for "double post") to only the primary one, and then in the editing >stage searching out the dummy refs, grouping on the headings they occur in, >and then maybe re-multiple posting as a way of propagating the added page >numbers, or just copying locator strings between posts. What I like about making an initial list of all the entries that have the dummy string (I do use the same string throughout), is that it gives me a touchstone for moving through the index. As you suggest, it is certainly possible to use Group Mode to collect the set of headings that will have an identical locator string, and to work from there duplicating the string. I would still make my list so that I would know which headings I needed to Group and work on, so that I could do all of the Group work without interruption. >Another question: I missed the context of your statement, "As someone >mentioned, the >discipline of only looking at the index one way as I go through helps me >reveal mistakes and gives me inspirations." Will you please explain this? I can't remember who first mentioned the idea you're quoting above, but my meaning is that, by creating a disciplined way of moving through the index, in which I have but one actual goal, that of seeking out and duplicating my multiple-post locator strings, I see snapshots of the index from a different perspective. This focused perspective means that through my peripheral vision, so to speak, I see errors and get ideas about writing. I think the phenomenon is about keeping the sequential brain occupied and allowing the simultaneous brain to operate (simultaneous brain being the Gestalt or intuitive brain). By looking at the subheads in their natural contexts, yet with my linear brain occupied, I see useful things about context (and spelling errors too). The possible down side to your suggestion of doing the seeking/duping from Group Mode is that I would then no longer be looking at the instances of subheadings in their natural contexts in the index, but would be looking at them in isolation. Nonetheless, I will try it. Perhaps the person making the original observation will explain her meaning as well. Best, Victoria ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 01:02:59 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11 Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Editing I check page numbers by (unconsciously) looking at the screen after typing each one. I do a lot of editing as I index. In Macrex, if I think I have a similar entry already, I go to it by typing the first couple of letters. Then I can either add a page reference or, if I'm adding a new subentry to an existing main entry, I can yank the main entry (one keystroke) and type in the subentry. If I can't remember where I put a subentry, I do group mode on the word (or part of it) and find all the places it's already in the index. Janet wrote: << Do many of you (any of you) check your main entry/ same as subentry "pairs" this way? I always do. Plus I"m always looking at main entries to see what could be/should be a subentry and didn't get to be one. I'm basically checking for double postings this way. I usually add some entries this way. Maybe I didn't think that a topic would merit being a subentry, but when I see that there are a few page locators after it, there is sufficient body of information to double post that way. >> Yes, if a main entry/subentry pair needs to be flipped, I do that with ctrl-Z right after I type it. At the end I flip them all again to make sure the page references match. When I do this I add "fr" at the end of the entry before I flip it, so that it doesn't automatically merge with the flipped version; I can compare the two versions and make adjustments to both if necessary before flipping back again. Like Janet, I also think as I make each entry where else that topic might need to go, and whether I should make see references from any alternate access points. I change entries and add cross references throughout the indexing process, so that except for very complex books (like the one I'm working on now!) I don't have a whole lot to do at the end. In complex books I end up doing more complicated editing tasks. For instance, in the current scholarly book about Ceausescu's reproductive policies, I had a note telling me to decide if the author's term "Political demography policies" could be broad enough to include all of the state intervention in reproduction or was more specific; another one telling me to decide on the relationship between general state intervention in private lives and public/private boundary fluidity (I decided that it was the same thing, reworded the state intervention heading to "state intervention in private sphere," and combined it with the private/public heading, amalgamating subentries in the process. I do as much as possible in Macrex before I export to Wordperfect. I don't spell check. My indexes often have a lot of personal names; I'm a good speller and misspellings jump out at me when I do my detailed scan of each line. And, finally, I edit exclusively on the screen. I find that with Macrex's ability to jump me around, follow me to the site of a new heading, and group headings with the same words in them, I can get a good picture of the whole index. Printing it out would just take too long, and when I've tried it it doesn't seem to help me all that much. BTW, thanks for demography wording help! Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:39:45 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sanindex Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Chicago/Great Lakes Chapter For all members of the Chicago/Great Lakes Chapter: The second indexer chat is scheduled for January 31, 1998 at the Superrosa Restaurant from 11:30 to 1:30. While the restaurant does not require reservations, they do like to know the count so that they can set up the proper amount of space. The cost is $10 at the door and whatever is ordered from the menu. Contact Sandi Schroeder at 847-303-0989 or sanindex@aol.com. Our web site is up. The address is http://www.xsite.net/~cglc\. Please make a note of it and watch for information on future meetings and any possible job listings. Save March 28 for our electronic workshop. It will be a full day featuring all the latest in technology on electronics in indexing. Sandi Schroeder Chmn, Chicago Great Lakes Chapter ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:37:22 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Arizona Chapter ASI meeting & workshop Hello all! ASI/AZ MEETING ON SATURDAY, 1/14 FULL DAY WORKSHOP COMING UP ON MARCH 14TH -- WATCH FOR DETAILS! Just a reminder that the Arizona Chapter of ASI is holding a meeting this Saturday, January 14th, from 11 AM to 2 PM, at the Casa Grande Public Library on East 6th Street. The speaker is Phillip Fox, CPA, a Phoenix-based self- employed accountant. His program, the Financial End of Running Your Own Business, will discuss the basics of record-keeping and tax obligations for the freelancer, we will have Q&A afterwards. The program is at no cost to attendees. Nonmembers are welcome. Bring your own lunch if you like. Dessert will be provided. For further info, contact Janet Perlman (jperlman@aol.com) or Nan Badgett (nbadgett@compuserve.com). ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:32:19 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SCTopping Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Chicago/Great Lakes Chapter Dear Sandi: If I haven't told you before, please save me a place at the indexer chat. Thanks Sandy ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:23:47 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DBRENNER Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Pagination Hi, I'm indexing a book with continuous text occasionally interrupted by paginated one- or two-page illustrations that sometimes do not relate immediately to the pages they intersect. For example, there may be a discussion of John Brown that starts on page 17 and continues uninterrupted on page 19, but page 18 is an illustration showing the flag of West Virginia with an indexable caption describing its origin. Would you reference: Brown, John, 17, 19 or Brown, John, 17-19? Thanks Diane Brenner P.O. Box 206 Worthington, MA 01098 413-238-5593 Diane ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:38:21 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: KArrigoni2 Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: office equipment Hi all, I used the fax software that came with my modem for a long time, but then there came a time when I decided I really needed to break down and get a stand-alone fax machine. I bought a Panasonic fax machine for around $400, and it's one of the best investments I've ever made. Some of the things I use it for are: --Receiving the pages of manuals to index (the smaller manuals, that is) --Receiving (and returning) small editing jobs --Receiving client information (word lists, style sheets, and so on) --Receiving contracts and sending them back (SIGNED) --Sending resumes and samples --Making copies (I love this feature--especially when I need to make copies of just 1 or 2 pages) Another great thing is that my computer and printer don't have to be tied up while I'm receiving or sending faxes, and I'm free to work on my projects. It's also nice to be able to receive faxes at all times--even when my computer isn't turned on. Karin ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:09:40 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sanindex Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Chicago/Great Lakes Chapter You did and I have. Sandi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:50:05 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: Pagination In-Reply-To: <199801231633.IAA20989@mail-gw3.pacbell.net> At 11:23 AM 1/23/98 EST, Diane wrote: >Hi, I'm indexing a book with continuous text occasionally interrupted by >paginated one- or two-page illustrations that sometimes do not relate >immediately to the pages they intersect. > >For example, there may be a discussion of John Brown that starts on page 17 >and continues uninterrupted on page 19, but page 18 is an illustration showing >the flag of West Virginia with an indexable caption describing its origin. >Would you reference: > >Brown, John, 17, 19 >or >Brown, John, 17-19? Diane, Oh don't you just hate it when that happens? ;-D I'd go with your second option. IMHO, a page range indicates that the same discussion ends on page 19 (even though illustrations intervene). OTOH, separating pages 17 and 19 with a comma suggests that there are two separate discussions, one on page 17 and another on page 19. Either way, readers will probably find their way to the end of the discussion on page 19, especially if page 17 ends in the middle of a sentence. But a page range, IMHO, more accurately depicts what's going on and may indeed be helpful if the discussion seems to end on page 17 (e.g. a paragraph obviously ends). Lynn ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:57:00 +0000 Reply-To: hcalvert@macrex.cix.co.uk Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Drusilla Calvert Subject: Re: Macrex :automatic saves + keywords + another tip A few clarifications about the Macrex discussion on automatic saves and keywords from the programmer (Hilary): 1. 1 does save, but it only updates the .IND files. This will protect against, for example, power failure, but not against a macro doing something you didn't expect. ALT-1 is no more than a way of "forcing" an automatic save. I originally put it in the program to test the software without having to wait! The most secure backup is to use the (B) backup file option from the main menu. A macro to do this (such as the ALT F1 suggested by Michael Brackney) can, as he said, make it very quick and easy. It's possible to interrupt the automatic save by pressing F1. In order to do this MACREX keeps looking for keystrokes to check whether one of these is F1 and any other keystroke gets discarded. I hadn't realised that this would cause a problem, but it can be adjusted in the next version. 2. MACREX scans for and loads keywords (i) on startup (ii) when you quit the inspect and edit screen (iii) when you load a backup file. It shouldn't be necessary to restart the program. 3. And another tip (from me): If you press 1, 2 or 3 from the Print menu you'll be taken directly to Change and Check Layout menu 1, 2 or 3. Pressing 4 will take you directly to the Volume number/page number menu. Happy indexing! Drusilla D & H Calvert MACREX Indexing Services hcalvert@macrex.cix.co.uk http://www.macrex.cix.co.uk/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 17:10:07 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Steven Sawula Subject: Re: Chicago/Great Lakes Chapter Hi Sandi, I notified Susan about a week ago that I plan/hope to attend. It looks like a 95% probability (barring any last minute problems). Steve Sawula Sawula Indexing On Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:39:45 EST Sanindex writes: >For all members of the Chicago/Great Lakes Chapter: > >The second indexer chat is scheduled for January 31, 1998 at the >Superrosa >Restaurant from 11:30 to 1:30. While the restaurant does not require >reservations, they do like to know the count so that they can set up >the >proper amount of space. The cost is $10 at the door and whatever is >ordered >from the menu. Contact Sandi Schroeder at 847-303-0989 or >sanindex@aol.com. > >Our web site is up. The address is http://www.xsite.net/~cglc\. Please >make a >note of it and watch for information on future meetings and any >possible job >listings. > >Save March 28 for our electronic workshop. It will be a full day >featuring all >the latest in technology on electronics in indexing. > >Sandi Schroeder >Chmn, Chicago Great Lakes Chapter > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 19:14:03 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Arizona Indexing Workshop AMERICAN SOCIETY OF INDEXERS, ARIZONA CHAPTER SECOND ANNUAL PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT WORKSHOP SATURDAY, MARCH 14, 1998 AT THE DOUBLETREE GUEST SUITES 320 NORTH 44TH STREET (NORTHWEST CORNER OF VAN BUREN) PHOENIX COST: To be determined -- info to come TOPIC: PAGELESS INDEXING SPEAKER: SETH A. MAISLIN As publishing technologies and information sciences advance, the need for indexers is not only expanding, but it is also getting wider attention. Seth Maislin will talk about how classical indexing theory applies (or doesn't apply) to electronic media, covering such topics as search engines, hyperlinks as page numbers, index layout in HTML, embedded indexing, and online help. He will discuss the changing business aspects of indexing and give his predictions on the future of indexing. SETH MAISLIN is an in-house indexer for O'Reilly & Associates, a Boston publisher of computer-related books. He is also sole proprietor of Focus Publishing Services. Seth is an experienced speaker, and has presented workshops at the Massachusetts Chapter 1996 and 1997 annual conferences; he also presents seminars to private industry documentation teams and authors on indexing theory and technique. Seth is co-webmaster for the ASI web site. Seth's web site is at http://www.oreilly.com/people/staff/seth ARIZONA ASI MEMBERS: WATCH FOR YOUR REGISTRATION FORM IN THE MAIL. (IF YOU ARE NOT ON OUR MAILING LIST AND WOULD LIKE A REGISTRATION FORM, CALL JANET PERLMAN AT (602) 569-7302, OR EMAIL AT jperlman@aol.com) THIS PROGRAM IS PARTIALLY UNDERWRITTEN BY THE AMERICAN SOCIETY OF INDEXERS PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT SERIES. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 19:30:28 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Deborah Decker Subject: Re: Newbie to ASI conf In-Reply-To: <199801090454.XAA08681@mailhost.infi.net> The question of long distance mentors is one that I would like to ask too. At 11:52 PM 1/8/98 EST, you wrote: >I have completed the USDA indexing classes and am planning to attend the ASI >1998 Conference. Any suggestions on where to start for sessions are welcome. >I just had my 3rd child and am looking for a 5 year projection into steady >freelance indexing. Does anyone attend the conference yearly ? Are mentors >available long distance ? > >Thanks!!!!!!!!! >Annette >BooksEnd@aol.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 08:35:33 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: Macrex: keywords In-Reply-To: <199801222232.OAA20698@mail-gw2.pacbell.net> At 02:34 PM 1/22/98 -0800, Michael wrote: >At 08:12 AM 1/22/98 -0800, Lynn wrote: > >>At 10:44 AM 1/21/98 -0800, Michael wrote: >>I'm very glad you brought this up about enabling changed keywords. I happen >>to be doing a lot of this in my current index which has a lot of terms that >>contain the same strings for keywords I've created before encountering >>them. (Apparently the software designers also thought the same strings I >>create for keywords are good for the names of reports, parameters, etc. >>they created for the software. Aiiiish!!!! This is yet another good reason >>for glancing at the screen whenever you make an entry: to catch unwanted >>expansions of keywords.) > >Aiiiish!!!! indeed, Lynn. I too create mnemonic keywords, and keep many in >standard lists, but I encounter this problem very rarely so when it actually >has come up I've found it rather amusing. Wish I could think of a funny >example. Hi Michael, It doesn't come up in every index, thank goodness, but in enough to be a slight annoyance. Maybe it's because I do a lot of geeky computer manuals containing weird character strings. (But then you do too. Hmmm.) Usually I precede my keywords with the letter "x" unless that in itself would lend to an unwanted expansion. Like you, I've had some really amusing expansions, some so hysterical that I've called hubby in the room to see them. (OK, so we don't get out enough...) ;D > >>Anyway, sometimes just going back to the Macrex's main menu (as directed in >>the manual) seems to enable the changed keywords. At other times, I've had >>to totally exit Macrex and restart it to enable them, a real timewaster. >>Are you saying that saving the index is what consistently enables them? TIA!!! > >The manual says that changed keywords have to be enabled by resorting the >index, and that this can be done simply, if you have automatic sort turned >on, by moving to the Sort, Merge, or Print module and then back to the Main >Menu. > Some time ago it occurred to me that a save occurs in each case and I >wondered whether that's what's really responsible for enabling changed >keywords -- especially since I couldn't imagine what resorting could have to >do with it -- so I tried doing a Write only, and bingo!, it worked. I just >now tried doing this with automatic sort off, and it works too. I started to look that up in the manual to make sure I was correct (which I wasn't) before posting my message, but forgive me for not having done so. That was a brilliant deduction on your part that a save occurs with each of those operations and I greatly appreciate the tip! > >I've never found any need to exit Macrex to enable changed keywords. That >is necessary only to increase the number of keywords available. > I've now figured that when you quit Macrex, it of course automatically saves the index. And saving the index is the key as you have shown. ;-D Speaking of increasing the number of available keywords, I've never had to do that. It's not because I haven't wanted to as I even create keywords for my frequently misspelled words (which Macrex will nicely correct). I found that when I've created so many that I can't remember them all and I'm forced to page through many screenfuls of them at the end of the index, I'm no longer saving time by using all of them. In some indexes, I find myself for one reason or another creating keywords I can't easily remember because I've already created similar ones for similar expansions. I am probably the only one on Index-L with this problem. ;-D > >Here's another undocumented command I found: Ctrl-PgUp as a way of >reinitiating Group mode from the top of the index (Enter regroups from the >top line of the current group -- which is helpful at times). In the lastest >version, of course, Ctrl--Up Arrow does the same thing. Could you explain this one more? I use Ctrl-PgUp and Ctrl-PgDown to rapidly get to the top and bottom of the index, but do not understand what you mean with respect to Group mode (which I use a whole lot!!). You are great Macrex power user!! :-) Lynn *********************************** Lynn Moncrief (techndex@pacbell.net) TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing *********************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:58:35 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PilarW Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Washington DC, ASI 20th Anniversary -- Advance Notice Washington, DC Chapter American Society of Indexers 20th Anniversary Celebration Where We've Been -- Where We're Going: From CRT to the Internet Saturday, April 4, 1998 Embassy Suites Old-Town Alexandria, VA --- ADVANCE NOTICE --- ADVANCE NOTICE --- ADVANCE NOTICE --- The Washington, DC Chapter of the American Society of Indexers is please d to invite you to a day-long extravaganza in celebration of our 20th Anniversary. Join us! A Few Highlights Annual Business Meeting Drawing for a free 'plane trip to the annual meeting in Seattle this May Great Moments in Indexing, with Maria Couglin Indexers Panel Publishers Panel Software Demos Dorothy Thomas, ASI's oral historian, will interview both officers and members who have been active from the start. More! Full, formal program and registration information will be posted soon and mailed to DC/ASI members. For more information, contact Chair-Elect Mike Bernier at mbernier@bna.com or 202/452-6395 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 10:24:16 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: STC Indexing Special Interest Group The Society for Technical Communication's Indexing Special Interest Group has started a newsletter, one page of which is "Upcoming Events." We will be trying to list as many indexing-related events as we can find, whether technical or not. If you have an upcoming event you want listed, please send me a message about it so that I can get it into the newsletter. The newsletter is published in January, May, and September, and the deadlines for events are December 15th, April 15th (hmmm), and August 15th. Send the information to me or to Pilar Wyman... jancw@mindspring.com or Pilarw@aol.com Thanks, Jan +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ Jan C. Wright Wright Information Indexing Services Jancw@mindspring.com www.mindspring. com/~jancw +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 14:05:48 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: TedC877022 Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Digital Signatures In a message dated 98-01-18 12:56:50 EST, Nancy writes: In a message dated Sun, 18 Jan 1998 15:09:49 EST, Susan writes: << That's a good idea..but I wonder if it is legal to have your signature scanned into a eps file (or any file that can be imported into other programs) so that you can just use the "place" feature of your software and put you signature on your document before faxing it? I know there are places that will scan picture and such and put them on a disk for you for less than $10.00. That would illimnate one of the major needs for a stand alone fax or a scanner until you could afford them. Susan >> What has been said here is very true and most useful: a digital signature can be affixed to a computer-generated fax, when using word processors such as Word and Word Perfect, and will be just as legible and just as legal as one actually hand written on a paper page and faxed. If anyone would like to send me a signature via snail mail, to the address shown below, I will convert it to a digital signature and return it to you via either snail mail (on diskette) or via email for $10.00. Additional signatures can also be provided on the same diskette/email for only $5.00 each. In either case, provide the appropriate address for the return mail. Ted Cole Cole Computer Solutions P.O. Box 145 Manteca, CA 95336 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:47:01 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Charles R. Anderson" Subject: Re: Newbie to ASI conf In-Reply-To: <980124045840.2.22676@mtigwc06> I've thought about sub-contracting on some long-term projects, but the idea of long-distance is daunting, involving as it would re-sending copy to someone, spending considerable time on the telephone (at least in the beginning when two-way consulting is necessary and e-mail just would be too cumbersome, and working out a reasonable compensation arrangement on both sides. I will be very interested in the comments too. Charles Anderson Charles Anderson c.anderson.seattle@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 15:06:20 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bookindexr Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Newbie to ASI conf In a message dated 98-01-24 14:48:41 EST, you write: << spending considerable time on the telephone (at least in the beginning when two-way consulting is necessary and e-mail just would be too cumbersome, >> What about internet phone. I have just recently installed one on my computer and the sound it perfectly clear. With the program I have you only pay for the program itself there isn't a monthly charge. It is similar to instant message except rather than sending typewritten messages you send your recorded message. As far as sending Susan Wilkerson Bookindexr@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 11:58:52 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Digital Signatures In-Reply-To: <199801250529.XAA23100@mixcom.mixcom.com> >If anyone would like to send me a signature via snail mail, to the address >shown below, I will convert it to a digital signature and return it to you via >either snail mail (on diskette) or via email for $10.00. Additional >signatures can also be provided on the same diskette/email for only $5.00 >each. In either case, provide the appropriate address for the return mail. Although I have nothing against entrepreneurship per se, I do hate to see this list used for advertising. Any one of us who has a scanner could provide this same service to other indexers as a professional courtesy. I'd be willing to do it. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 11:49:44 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Newbie to ASI conf In-Reply-To: <199801240531.XAA04331@mixcom.mixcom.com> Deborah and Annette asked about long-distance mentoring. How well it can be done long-distance depends in part on what sort of mentoring you're looking for. There are so many kinds of mentoring. If you're looking for someone to train you, then I'd have to say it would be tricky to do long-distance--much easier to do F2F--but still possible. You'd have to be able to send indexes back and forth as e-mail attachments, so as to be operating in "real time." OTOH, if by mentoring you mean that you're looking for advice about getting a business started, someone to help with your resume, a referral or two--in other words, something less formal and requiring less work on the mentor's part--sure, that can be done long-distance. I don't see why not. Not every mentoring relationship is a formal apprenticeship. As for ASI conferences, I go to them every year (well, I did miss one year). They were vital when I was new: they gave me a chance to sit down with my (long-distance) mentor F2F, I met lots of other indexers (both new and experienced) and a few editors, I attended workshops aimed at beginners. The other benefit was less tangible but no less important--attending conferences made me feel like a professional indexer, at a time when I really needed that confidence boost. My advice to new indexers who are going to the Seattle conference is to attend several workshops aimed at newer indexers (if you can't tell from the title, write to the conference organizers or to the person giving the workshop), get together with other new indexers for some moral support, allow yourself plenty of time for just talking to people (e.g., plan to spend just about every meal with one or more indexers), bring business cards (please!!!), expect to be overwhelmed. As for lining up a mentor, if you need a formal apprenticeship but can't find anyone, consider a less-formal relationship to start with. There's no reason you can't have more than one mentor. When I got started, I had two (informal) mentors, one long-distance and one local (thanks Barbara! thanks Kathryn!). Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 16:36:36 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Deborah Decker Subject: Re: Newbie to ASI conf In-Reply-To: <199801251757.MAA03001@mailhost.infi.net> I personally am considering the USDA course for my education in indexing. I just received L.Bonura's book from Amazon Books and will be reading it during "the football game"! What I would be interested in after a time with the USDA course is the second mentoring option that you mentioned. I think that other steps that I NEED to take after starting the course will be joining the ASI! I probably should do that first. I live near Roanoke, VA so I don't know how close any other indexers may be. I am sure that alot of support can be derived by email contact. I have ALREADY gained so much help and encouragement from this list! I will not be attending the ASI conf. but perhaps by next year I will be able to attend and receive the benefits from that gathering with all the interesting workshops. Thanks to everyone for their help and encouragement to the "newbies"! Debby Decker At 11:49 AM 1/25/98 -0600, you wrote: >Deborah and Annette asked about long-distance mentoring. How well it can be >done long-distance depends in part on what sort of mentoring you're looking >for. There are so many kinds of mentoring. If you're looking for someone to >train you, then I'd have to say it would be tricky to do >long-distance--much easier to do F2F--but still possible. You'd have to be >able to send indexes back and forth as e-mail attachments, so as to be >operating in "real time." > >OTOH, if by mentoring you mean that you're looking for advice about getting >a business started, someone to help with your resume, a referral or two--in >other words, something less formal and requiring less work on the mentor's >part--sure, that can be done long-distance. I don't see why not. Not every >mentoring relationship is a formal apprenticeship. > >As for ASI conferences, I go to them every year (well, I did miss one >year). They were vital when I was new: they gave me a chance to sit down >with my (long-distance) mentor F2F, I met lots of other indexers (both new >and experienced) and a few editors, I attended workshops aimed at >beginners. The other benefit was less tangible but no less >important--attending conferences made me feel like a professional indexer, >at a time when I really needed that confidence boost. > >My advice to new indexers who are going to the Seattle conference is to >attend several workshops aimed at newer indexers (if you can't tell from >the title, write to the conference organizers or to the person giving the >workshop), get together with other new indexers for some moral support, >allow yourself plenty of time for just talking to people (e.g., plan to >spend just about every meal with one or more indexers), bring business >cards (please!!!), expect to be overwhelmed. As for lining up a mentor, if >you need a formal apprenticeship but can't find anyone, consider a >less-formal relationship to start with. There's no reason you can't have >more than one mentor. When I got started, I had two (informal) mentors, one >long-distance and one local (thanks Barbara! thanks Kathryn!). > >Cheers, > > > >Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My >Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. >Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer >http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:43:14 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Wright Subject: Digital Signatures - Clarification of terms What has been said here is very true and most useful: a digital signature can be affixed to a computer-generated fax, when using word processors such as Word and Word Perfect, and will be just as legible and just as legal as one actually hand written on a paper page and faxed. Ok, my Inner Lawyer compels me to respond. First of all, an important definition. What you are talking about here is essentially a photograph of a signature, imported as a graphic, correct? This is not what the term "digital signature" means. Here is the definition from the Washington State Code, one of the few states who have enacted legislation regarding this hot new Internet topic: ? 19.34.020 ... (10) "Digital signature" means a transformation of a message using an asymmetric cryptosystem such that a person having the initial message and the signer's public key can accurately determine: (a) Whether the transformation was created using the private key that corresponds to the signer's public key; and (b) Whether the initial message has been altered since the transformation was made. (Washington Electronic Authentication Act, ??19.34.010 to 19.34.903, Annotated Revised Code of Washington). You may have heard the phrase public/private key encryption, or something similar. That is what the phrase "digital signature" means. The technology is still relatively new and expensive, and is used primarily by the credit card and banking industries (so far), but it has nothing to do with graphic representations of actual signatures. I will be happy to elaborate with what little I know (from having read and indexed the Washington legislation, primarily) if anyone is interested! (Which I sort of doubt!) :-) Secondly, and more importantly, a graphic, online representation of your signature has no more legal significance than a photograph of your signature-- that is, none. The same rule would hold: Photocopies of signatures are not considered good evidence unless you can also produce the original with a "real" signature. This is why when you close on your real estate or execute your will or power of attorney, you are forced to sign or initial multiple copies of the same document (and why the bank or mortgage company keeps the "best" copies). I haven't seen any cases on this issue, but I would be willing to go out on a limb and predict the outcome. Just consider this a friendly heads-up: Don't count on a computer graphic of a signature having any legally binding effect whatsoever. The fact that you can download the signatures of everyone from Thomas Jefferson to Michael Jordan off of the Internet would be a big argument against relying on this as a means of identification. Back to regularly scheduled indexing chat... -- Sharon W. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:00:13 -0700 Reply-To: aelser@uswest.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Arthur Elser Organization: U S West Communications Subject: Faxed signatures On 1/26/98 Sharon Wright wrote: >>Don't count on a computer graphic of a signature having any legally binding effect whatsoever. The fact that you can download the signatures of everyone from Thomas Jefferson to Michael Jordan off of the Internet would be a big argument against relying on this as a means of identification.<< I would agree that as a purely legal signature, this is probably true. I have, however, closed on a condo I was selling by faxing "signed" contracts back and forth and then signing the "real" contract at the closing. In my previous job, we also faxed "signed" contracts and change of scope letters to get processes rolling immediately and followed up with signed snail mail copies. I think one of the realities of how business is done today is that many processes will start with faxed signatures that are followed by signed copies that are mailed or sent by overnight express. And I suspect that in a court of law, the intent shown by one party who faxes a "signed" copy would hold that party to the contents of the "signed" contract. It must fall somewhere between a verbal contract and a contract signed in front of witnesses. A handshake can be as binding as a formally written contract, given the right circumstances. Just a guess from a non-lawyer based on some practical experience. ================================================================== Art Elser (303) 965-4825 Information Developer, U S WEST aelser@uswest.com There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts. Illusions Richard Bach =================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:01:28 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Digital Signatures - Clarification of terms At 11:43 AM 1/26/1998 -0500, Sharon Wright wrote: >Secondly, and more importantly, a graphic, online >representation of your signature has no more legal >significance than a photograph of your signature-- that >is, none. The same rule would hold: Photocopies of >signatures are not considered good evidence unless >you can also produce the original with a "real" >signature. This is why when you close on your real >estate or execute your will or power of attorney, you >are forced to sign or initial multiple copies of the same >document (and why the bank or mortgage company >keeps the "best" copies). Sharon, thanks for sending this explanation/clarification. It is how I understand the law, as well, and having just been involved in not only a long-distance real estate deal but an ongoing long-distance probate case that I am handling without a lawyer, I can assure you that out here in the Real World, Real Signatures are demanded at the point of closure. I hadn't gotten involved in this discussion earlier because I am NOT a lawyer, and I thought perhaps the companies and agencies I have been dealing with were just being stodgy or persnickety--even though I had always understood that photocopied or faxed signatures weren't binding. I figured maybe the rules had changed and I just hadn't heard about it yet. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:36:04 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Wright Subject: Re: Digital Signatures - Clarification of terms -Reply Nope. Trust me, the law rarely, if ever, changes that rapidly! :-) If you think about it, there are very good reasons for it. To hold otherwise would open the door to all kinds of fraud and mischief. The next thing will likely be digital signatures (the encrypted kind), but I doubt that photocopied or faxed signatures will ever attain the same legal status because they are just too easy to fake. >>> Sonsie 01/26/98 12:01pm >>> At 11:43 AM 1/26/1998 -0500, Sharon Wright wrote: >Secondly, and more importantly, a graphic, online >representation of your signature has no more legal >significance than a photograph of your signature-- that >is, none. The same rule would hold: Photocopies of >signatures are not considered good evidence unless >you can also produce the original with a "real" >signature. This is why when you close on your real >estate or execute your will or power of attorney, you >are forced to sign or initial multiple copies of the same >document (and why the bank or mortgage company >keeps the "best" copies). Sharon, thanks for sending this explanation/clarification. It is how I understand the law, as well, and having just been involved in not only a long-distance real estate deal but an ongoing long-distance probate case that I am handling without a lawyer, I can assure you that out here in the Real World, Real Signatures are demanded at the point of closure. I hadn't gotten involved in this discussion earlier because I am NOT a lawyer, and I thought perhaps the companies and agencies I have been dealing with were just being stodgy or persnickety--even though I had always understood that photocopied or faxed signatures weren't binding. I figured maybe the rules had changed and I just hadn't heard about it yet. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:33:43 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hector Echeverria Subject: Re: Multilingual Thesauri No es precisamente USMARC, pero la siguiente website tiene informacion sobre tesauros multilingues: http://www.cris.com/~multites Steve Brown Thesauri@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:35:37 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: Macrex: keywords At 08:35 AM 1/24/98 -0800, Lynn Moncrief wrote: > >Speaking of increasing the number of available keywords, I've never had to >do that. It's not because I haven't wanted to as I even create keywords for >my frequently misspelled words (which Macrex will nicely correct). I found >that when I've created so many that I can't remember them all and I'm >forced to page through many screenfuls of them at the end of the index, I'm >no longer saving time by using all of them. In some indexes, I find myself >for one reason or another creating keywords I can't easily remember because >I've already created similar ones for similar expansions. I am probably the >only one on Index-L with this problem. ;-D You're definintely not the only one who has trouble remembering keywords. I, for one, do too, but there's a much easier way of finding forgotten keywords than paging down through screens and screens of them: enter "#" plus a few letters of the term for which the keyword stands, and then back up a line with the new command Alt--Up Arrow, or, if you think you remember the first couple letters of your keyword, enter "*" plus those letters. >> >>Here's another undocumented command I found: Ctrl-PgUp as a way of >>reinitiating Group mode from the top of the index (Enter regroups from the >>top line of the current group -- which is helpful at times). In the lastest >>version, of course, Ctrl--Up Arrow does the same thing. > >Could you explain this one more? I use Ctrl-PgUp and Ctrl-PgDown to rapidly >get to the top and bottom of the index, but do not understand what you mean >with respect to Group mode (which I use a whole lot!!). What I meant by "reinitiating Group mode" is grouping on a new string from within Group mode. We can't do this with Ctrl-H, of course, since that toggles us back out of Group mode: so we can use either Enter, which shows everthing in the new group from the top line of the previous group to the end of the index, or Ctrl-PgUp (and now Ctrl--Up Arrow too), which shows the entire new group (from the top of the index). (Oh, I just noticed something else that might have been the source of confusion: by "current group" I meant not the new group but the one on the screen at the moment of regrouping [which then becomes the previous group].) Michael Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 530-272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:10:59 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: BECohen653 Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Upcoming Publicity Event The ASI History/Archaeology SIG is pleased to announce that we have been able to arrange an "Indexing Clinic" to be held on Saturday April 4, 10 am - 3 pm, in conjunction with the Organization of American Historians' annual meeting in Indianapolis, IN. Indexers interested in participating in the Indexing Clinic are asked to sign up in advance (just send me a note that you intend to be at the meeting). Participation is open to all ASI members, not just members of the History/Archaeology SIG. The clinic is informal and free to conference participants; indexers are available to talk to authors and editors in the meeting room we have been provided. (OAH is one of the few organizations to provide free meeting rooms like this, and we are lucky to be able to take advantage of this sort of opportunity to spread the word about ASI and quality indexing.) Basically, participants are "on call" during the hours of the event to answer questions, hand out ASI brochures and directories, and meet with publishers' representatives at the meeting. Also, we might arrange a small exhibit of good history indexes. I plan to assemble an information packet to distribute to publishers in the exhibits room, so any indexers interested in having a personal brochure included in the packet should send me 50 copies of their brochure by March 15. Any extra brochures will be distributed to authors at the Indexing Clinic. I also intend to include History/Archaeology SIG directories in this packet, as well as the main ASI brochure. If you are not yet in the H/A SIG directory, please send your information and membership check to Margie Towery (SIG coordinator) asap, so she can update the directory before March 15 (so I'll have time to copy it before the Indexing Clinic). BTW, there is no charge for attending the clinic (no registration is necessary for the OAH meeting, unless you plan to visit the exhibits area or any sessions). I plan to hand out the information packets on the first day of the conference, along with an invitation to attend the ,Indexing Clinic.I will also hang signs around the hotels and convention center about the Indexing Clinic, in an effort to increase awareness of this event. There will also be a notice in the "Pocket Program" distributed to registrants (again, no charge for that). Finally, in our ad in the preliminary program Joan Griffitts and I have included a mention of the Indexing Clinic. These activities should ensure a good turnout. So, please let me know if you will be at meeting and are willing to assist, if you have a brochure to include in the information packet, or if you have any suggestions for making this a successful event. Thanks. Barbara Barbara E. Cohen Indexing and Editorial Services 41 South Hawthorne Lane Indianapolis, IN 46219-6309 317/ 359-1219 317/ 359-1299 fax BECohen653@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 02:38:53 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: TedC877022 Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Digital Signatures - Clarification of terms In a message dated 98-01-26 11:42:53 EST, you write: << What has been said here is very true and most useful: a digital signature can be affixed to a computer-generated fax, when using word processors such as Word and Word Perfect, and will be just as legible and just as legal as one actually hand written on a paper page and faxed. Ok, my Inner Lawyer compels me to respond. First of all, an important definition. What you are talking about here is essentially a photograph of a signature, imported as a graphic, correct? This is not what the term "digital signature" means. Here is the definition from the Washington State Code, one of the few states who have enacted legislation regarding this hot new Internet topic: ? 19.34.020 .... (10) "Digital signature" means a transformation of a message using an asymmetric cryptosystem such that a person having the initial message and the signer's public key can accurately determine: (a) Whether the transformation was created using the private key that corresponds to the signer's public key; and (b) Whether the initial message has been altered since the transformation was made. (Washington Electronic Authentication Act, ??19.34.010 to 19.34.903, Annotated Revised Code of Washington). You may have heard the phrase public/private key encryption, or something similar. That is what the phrase "digital signature" means. The technology is still relatively new and expensive, and is used primarily by the credit card and banking industries (so far), but it has nothing to do with graphic representations of actual signatures. I will be happy to elaborate with what little I know (from having read and indexed the Washington legislation, primarily) if anyone is interested! (Which I sort of doubt!) :-) Secondly, and more importantly, a graphic, online representation of your signature has no more legal significance than a photograph of your signature-- that is, none. The same rule would hold: Photocopies of signatures are not considered good evidence unless you can also produce the original with a "real" signature. This is why when you close on your real estate or execute your will or power of attorney, you are forced to sign or initial multiple copies of the same document (and why the bank or mortgage company keeps the "best" copies). I haven't seen any cases on this issue, but I would be willing to go out on a limb and predict the outcome. Just consider this a friendly heads-up: Don't count on a computer graphic of a signature having any legally binding effect whatsoever. The fact that you can download the signatures of everyone from Thomas Jefferson to Michael Jordan off of the Internet would be a big argument against relying on this as a means of identification. Back to regularly scheduled indexing chat... -- Sharon W. >> Yes, to be technically correct, this is digitized signature and not a digital signature. Ted ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 05:09:09 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: Re: Macrex: keywords Lynn Moncrief wrote: I found >that when I've created so many [keywords] that I can't remember them all= and I'm >forced to page through many screenfuls of them at the end of the index, = I'm >no longer saving time by using all of them. In some indexes, I find myse= lf >for one reason or another creating keywords I can't easily remember beca= use >I've already created similar ones for similar expansions. I am probably = the >only one on Index-L with this problem. ;-D I sometimes forget I've created a keyword and = create a new one for the same word or phrase! What I do if I have so many keywords that I can't remember them all is to print them all out and put the list on my copyholder, so that = I can easily refer to it and don't have to scroll through endlessly. Of course, as I add more I have to update the list. Christine ************************************************************* Christine Shuttleworth - Indexing and Editorial Services Flat 1, 25 St Stephen's Avenue, London W12 8JB Tel/Fax (+44 181) 749 8797 email ChristineShuttleworth@compuserve.com or 106234.1745@compuserve.com ************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:01:15 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: AllWrite N Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: office equipment With Windows you don't have to interrupt what you are doing to receive faxes (although you can't be online and tying up the modem when someone wants to fax you, and you will have to open the received file before printing it), and with a flatbed scanner you can also fax back things you didn't create on your PC, so it is a 'cheaper' course of action for those who can't afford the real thing -- like ME!! ;o Nancy Noyes All Write ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:25:06 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: AllWrite N Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: office equipment To Diane and Louise and other interested POT (people out there) The web site below is where my husband found refill toner for our Epson. I didn't get involved in it so I can't tell you if they only supply stuff for Epsons, but it gives you a place to start. He said it was $20 or less (which included shipping) to buy enough toner to refill a single cartridge and the person he dealt with was very helpful. Again, be CAREFUL handling these Epson cartridges! I've had little plastic pieces that hold the spring in place snap off resulting in having to scavenge off another cartridge to replace the missing spring and broken paperguide. >:( http://www.cfriends.com/laston.html Hope this helps! Nancy Noyes All Write ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:50:24 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Philip and Heather Jones Subject: keywords I've just finished a few indexes with SKY Index, and SKY's auto-completion enabled me to get by with about 4 keywords in an index that might otherwise have needed about 30--and the ones I made were displayed on the screen at all times, so I couldn't forget. I've also found an unexpected benefit; the auto-completion practically eliminates errors of the type where you type in nearly identical entries, but one is plural and the other singular or something. Heather /---------------------------------------------------------------------\ | There are such things as cause and effect, but they have nothing to | | do with each other... | |---------------------------------------------------------------------| | Phil, Heather, Doug and Ivy Jones hpjones@rt66.com | | Los Alamos, NM | \---------------------------------------------------------------------/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:18:55 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bookindexr Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Marketing/Communication/Education - The Consortium of Freelancers - New Web Site Please if you hit reply change the address to Bookindexr@aol.com I assure you I didn't send this to start another flame one. I am not counted among those that enjoy them. The Consortium is evolving into more than a marketing tool. Its focus has changed so much that I feel that a lot more of you will be interested in what it has to offer. The name of the consortium has changed to The Consortium of Freelancers- TCOF. All professions related to and beneficial to indexing, editing, etc. will be included. Suce as: Indexer, Editors, Writers, Desk Top Publishing, Web Page Designers - Graphic Artist...etc. You just need to be a freelancer. The New Web Page Site we are planning will provide: --Marketing Tools --Communication --Education Marketing Tools - Exposures to potential clients with a Data Base directory of members and their specialties. You will be listed with your Name, E-mail Address, and Specialty and will be provide a link to you personal web page if you have one. The Data Base will also list Publishers/Writers..etc. you will be able to locate them by most any specifications - Name - Specialty - State, etc. You will be able to download pre-uploaded Mailing Lists with contact names or order your list to your specifications. We will announce marketing projects that are in progress and future planned projects with their deadline dates for ads. Each project advertising fee will be based on projected expense and labor. Communication - Not only will it give publishers, writer, etc. an online directory of services they may need but It will solve a lot of communication problems. We plan to offer a Chat Room without having to have any software other than a web browser that can handle Java. Netscape and Internet Explorer are a couple I know of. I am not familiar with any others. It will have Internet phone capabilities. I believe (not certain) that all you will need is a mic on your computer. There will be private rooms available for special group meetings or even for one on one between it's members as well and their clients. Members and their guest can come together one on one in private rooms to discuss issues they would have normally had to pay long distance charges for. Indexers, etc. can get to know each other more personally and built a closer professional relationship. There will be a Bulletin Board available for comments, suggestion, leaving notes etc Educational forums for it's members by hosting Online Indexing Clinics - scheduled chats with professionals...etc. The possibilities are limitless. However I am trying to come up with a way that everyone can just pay a lifetime membership and not have to pay anything else. I am hoping to generate the funds to keep the consortium going by soliciting advertising that would offer products and services beneficial to its members. Monthly Financial Statement there will be a montly financial record available upon demand. Projected set up expenses: In order to get the consortium working properly I need to meet some initial expenses then it will cost very little to keep it going...Some people aren't going to have the initial membership fee and I would need to offer a temporary membership fee hoping to keep it at $10 per month. I just don't know what to charge for the lifetime membership. I want to make it accessible to as many people as possible but still meet the expenses to get it set up. I need to get an idea of how many people may possible be interested in this and any questions, suggestion or feedback you may have. The web page design, service provider, registering a domain and installing a data base will cost roughly $1000.00 Dwight Walker will be the master designer. The chat room $700.00 The chat service is called ParaChat if you want to look it up on the web. The charge for this room without getting the service provider's advertising is $50 per month if it is paid a year in advance $600.00. There is also a connection fee of $100 (If I remember correctly) $300 miscelleous (checking account, applying for tax ememption..etc) So roughly unless something comes up I haven't thought of $2000 will be the setup we need to generate to get the Consortium set up. After the initial set up I will need a computer I don't have to fight my family over and a third telephone line. Approximately $3000.00 Yearly maintenance projection expenses: Maintaining a domain - $60 Chat room - $600 Internet Service Provider $300 Phone Line - $600 depending on any long distance bill Miscellaneous - Licenses, office supplies, etc.? $440 Roughly a total of $2000 per year necessary expense to keep the consortium operational. Administration Salary- $30 per hour (what I would make indexing if I weren't operating the consortium) I have no idea how much time it will take each day to keep things running smootly and my salary isn't a necessity to keeping the consortium operating. Operating Funds Self-Generating - Once we have the initial setup fee the Consortium can be funded by advertisers and future lifetime membership dues. I have also thought of generating funds by having a Database of Advertisers for products that may be useful to the members...not sure how this would work. I don't want the web page clutter with ads. We can get the chat room free if we accept their advertising. I would rather pay the yearly fee and solicite our own ads that we know will be beneficial to us and not a agrievation. Also it will be our main means of operating funds. Also I need legal advice as to how to set up a non-profit organization. Can this be done with only one officers. I took a poll of the people that were interested in the scratch pads and 99% of them wanted me to keep this as a service I provide. It seems no one has the time to do the leg work...and I don't mind doing this but I want to do it as a non profit organization. I will be the administrator. Once I get it set up I will pay myself a salary according to the funds available and time it takes for me to operate. I want to try to make it self serving as possible. I still want to pursue my indexing career and I don't want to be stuck at my computer 24 hours a day monitoring chat rooms..etc. PLEASE.... IF YOU HIT REPLY CHANGE THE ADDRESS TO: Bookindexer@aol.com. I will compose a summary of the feed back for anyone that is interested please write me and give me you E-mail address. Susan Wilkerson Bookindexr@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:28:44 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Spring Meeting, Pacific NW Chapter SPRING MEETING, 1998 PACIFIC NORTHWEST CHAPTER AMERICAN SOCIETY OF INDEXERS Saturday, March 7 12noon - 4p.m Portland State University Smith Center, Conference Room 333, Portland OR R. JEAN BRYANT SELF-EMPLOYMENT SUCCESS STRATEGIES Our presenter, R. Jean Bryant, has blazed a trail as an independent-learning consultant, teacher, and writer for over twenty-five years. Jean is an expert on self-promotion. Her books and cassette tapes include: Anybody Can Write--A Playful Approach, Quit Job-Hunting--Employ Yourself, and Stop Improving Yourself and Start Living. Jean uses examples and illustrations from her own business experiences to encourage audience members to follow their dreams and reach their goals for building and maintaining a successful business. 12:00 - 1:30 Lunch, Networking, "Ask an Indexer". As usual, we will make sure that working indexers are sitting at each table, so that new and potential indexers have a chance to ask questions. 1:30 - 2:00 Business Meeting. Hear what we have accomplished since our last meeting and what we are planning for the rest of the year. 2:00 - 4:00 Presentation, Question and Answer Period. DIRECTIONS: North of Portland: From I5, take I-405 south across the Fremont Bridge, then take the 6th Avenue exist. South of Portland: From I5, take I-405 north, then take the 6th Avenue exit. Follow SW Sixth to Mill (6th intersection); turn left on Mill and left on Broadway (next intersection) and pull into PSU parking structure on the left. East and West of Portland: Find the downtown area, go south on Broadway, after Mill Street pull into parking structure on left. Parking in PSU structures is not patrolled on weekends. As you exit the parking structure, Smith Center is one block to the left on the other side of Broadway. Use the entrance on the south side and go up one flight of steps to Room 233. FEE: $20 ASI members; $25 non-ASI members. Includes a delicious buffet lunch. Registration deadline: Thursday, March 5, 1998 Please send a copy of this registration form and your check payable to PNW Chapter/ASI to: Louise Martin, Secretary/Treasurer, PNW/ASI 3829 SE Harrison, Portland, OR 97214-5944 Names of people attending:_____________________________________________________________________ Number attending:______ ASI member _____ Non-member_____ Amount enclosed:_______________________ Questions: Louise Martin (lmart@teleport.com or 503-235-8734 or fax@503-239-4353) or program chair Kari Bero (bero@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu or 206-937-3673) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:43:19 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Winter Web...do I hear bells ringing? At the risk of being a boor, I am reposting this since I saw nor received any response the first time around. Mail gets lost, you know. Does the name Thomas P. Copley ring any bells? He recently sent an announcement to the List concerning upcoming Website courses and the name seems familiar to me -- unreliable and such. Or am I confusing the chap and his courses with someone else? I did not save the postings when something similar went down recently. Pity if this is a repeat performance; the prices are appealing as well as the course contents. Cheers, Dave T. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:44:27 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Winter Web...do I hear bells ringing? At 03:43 PM 1/27/1998 -0500, Dafydd Llwyd Talcott wrote: >At the risk of being a boor, I am reposting this since I saw nor received >any response the first time around. Mail gets lost, you know. > >Does the name Thomas P. Copley ring any bells? He recently sent an >announcement to the List concerning upcoming Website courses and the >name seems familiar to me -- unreliable and such. Or am I confusing >the chap and his courses with someone else? I did not save the postings >when something similar went down recently. I'm almost certain that there was some discussion of this the first time I saw the message posted, Dafydd. I've cleaned out my files since then, but I hope somebody else will re-post the relevant details or let you know how to search the archives. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:42:51 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Vicki Birchfield Subject: Re: Winter Web...do I hear bells ringing? Dafydd Llwyd Talcott wrote: > Does the name Thomas P. Copley ring any bells? He recently sent an > announcement to the List concerning upcoming Website courses ... He is indeed the same chap. Others posted having problems about receiving class materials. I took one of his classes about a year ago and had trouble getting some of the lessons at first. I emailed him several times at one address with no response. Then, after reading the instructions that he sent with the first lesson on how to contact him, I realized there was an address specifically for reporting problems such as missing lessons. Once I wrote to that address, I got an immediate and satisfactory (automated, if I remember correctly) response. I think he's legit. I suspect any problems people have are due to technical issues with his mail server rather than malicious intent on his part. But my experience with him was quite awhile ago, in Internet-time. As far as content went, he seemed to cover the bases pretty well. Not great, but adequate for $20. I think I still have the instructions on how to reach him for missing lessons and such. If anybody wants them, let me know off-list and I'll try to find them. Vicki Birchfield ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:28:01 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nancy Mulvany Subject: Indexing -- Subversive? I just have to share this article that appeared in my Sunday paper. I wonder if it appeared elsewhere.. "A CIA Target Subversively Cataloguing Books on American Soil" By Daniel C. Tsang The Sunday Times [aka, Contra Costa Times] January 25, 1998, F9 Because of me, the CIA has had to concede it does spy on Americans. Just last month, the agency had to remove a denial posted on its Web site that it doesn't do this. For it kept a file on me throughout the 1980s and '90s -- despite a law against political spying on Americans. ..... But I am no spy or terrorist. The CIA conceded as much by settling my lawsuit, paying my lawyers some $46,000 and promising to expunge my file and never spy on my political activities in the future. ..... The CIA says my dossier was created because of my work with CovertAction Information Bulletin, now CovertAction Quarterly. I understand the agency's unhappiness with a magazine that tries to expose its shenanigans, but all I did was index its magazine. That's not subversive. ..... My cumulative index to the first 12 issues of CAIB came out in 1981. Beginning that year, my CIA file reveals, the agency sent repeated inquiries to the Immigration and Nationalization [sic] Service about my nationality status, describing me as "Hong Kong-born Chinese." ... in the end, the INS told the CIA it didn't have anything on me. It was right: I am a U.S. citizen through my mother, who was born in Seattle. ..... and on goes the article -nancy Nancy Mulvany Voice: 510-524-4195 Fax: 510-527-4681 Email: nmulvany@well.com Books for Indexers ====> http://www.well.com/~nmulvany ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:50:36 -0800 Reply-To: mclaughb@cgs.edu Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bonny McLaughlin Organization: cgs.edu Subject: Announcement: Southern California Chapter meeting American Society of Indexers' Southern California Chapter invites you to assess your aptitude and degree of interest in a career in indexing. Our next meeting will be: "Getting Started in Indexing" February 7, 1998 at 11:00 a.m. at the home of Anne Leach in Palm Desert, California Lunch will be provided. Participants are invited to submit an index to a short paper we will provide on "marketing one's indexing services." All the indexes will be reviewed and compared briefly at the meeting. We will discuss the skills and talents shared by successful indexers---the hands-on exercise of indexing a short treatise will allow participants to see how well their own tastes, skills, and talents correspond to those of successful indexers. The treatise on "marketing one's indexing services" will provide a great deal of useful information for beginning and established indexers alike, and we will have a Q & A session so that your specific questions can be explored. RSVP asap (but no later than Feb 3, please) to: anneleach@aol.com or 760-360-1432 When you have "registered" for the luncheon, we'll send the short treatise via e-mail, along with directions to Anne' s house. We're looking forward to seeing you. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:24:32 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: TShere7566 Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Continuous discussions with intervening illustrations There have been a few tantalizing posts in the last week on how to handle locators for continuous discussions when a full page illustration, with page number, interrupts the discussion. Joanne Clendenen wrote, in talking about editing: "The most common error for me is to have a continuous page range that runs through a page with an unrelated photo or illustration." Others also referred to this as a mistake. Kara Pekar said that in an index for a junior high textbook she had used a page range (231-241) for a brief continuous discussion interrupted by 4 discontinuous pages of illustrations, rather than a string of 4 separate locators. A day or two later, Diane asked about the same topic, and in a reply to her Lynn Moncrief weighed in on the side of the page range. (I've summarized all this from my printouts; hope I've got it all right.) I'd be very interested to hear more opinions on this subject. I think it's not an unusual situation to run into, particularly with certain kinds of books--garden books, for instance, and textbooks, as Kara mentioned. When I first ran into this question with a practice index, I looked in both Nancy Mulvany's and Wellisch's books and could find nothing to the point. That being the case, is there any accepted wisdom on this? Some of you seemed to imply that there was--that using a page range *isn't* appropriate if other material intervenes in a continuous discussion. But my gut feeling about it is that Kara and Lynn are right--a page range serves the reader better, just makes more sense, as well as being less cluttered in print. And that's what I've done when it's come up in indexes I've written. More opinions please! --Therese Shere Healdsburg, California ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 23:36:47 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Continuous discussions with intervening illustrations Therese, Since you asked ........ in my years of indexing, I've turned into a real purist. When I come across this type of situation, I do *not* use the page range, but rather break the page reference into whatever page numbers indicate where the discussion is. I do not like to take the liberty of implying a 3 page discussion (ie, pp. 14-16) when the discussion may be one paragraph at the bottom page 14 that continues onto the top of page 16, with an unrelated figure or table on page 15. I prefer to be entirely "truthful" about what is there in the index (no judgment intended here -- just an honest listing of page locators).' The thing that gives me more of a problem is a situation in which something is discussed again and again, as illustrative of one point and then another, on a succession of pages, when the discussions are discontinuous. The string of page locators is disconcerting in the index (to me), and I find it more difficult to maintain my "purist" position and list all page locators. I often wonder if the publishers I work for change these strings of locators to a range after I submit the index. Since I don't often see the published volumes on many of my books, I don't know. OTOH, I haven't been criticized for the practice of listing the string of locators or told not to do it. However, I must admit it does look inelegant (to me), although technically correct. Do any of you wish to add your comments here? Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 00:31:24 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Cats (this is fluffy chat -- pun intended) I'm sure those of you who have cats are familiar with this behavior: As you sit reading or marking text, your cat slowly insinuates itself between you and your book, usually one slow, "don't-notice-what-I'm-up-to" paw at a time. Well, tonight I encountered a new one -- my cat tried the same tactic as I worked on the computer. He was greatly affronted by the beeping which ensued when he attempted to lie full length on the keyboard, and left in huff, trying unsuccessfully to pretend that he hadn't been there at all! Kara Pekar jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 04:59:17 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: Re: Continuous discussions with intervening illustrations Janet Perlman wrote: Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Joanne E. Clendenen" Organization: AfterWords Indexing Services Subject: Re: Continuous discussions with intervening illustrations I have to admit being moved by Lynn and Kara's arguments for a page range, even when an unrelated illustration intervenes. I guess I was being too literal, perhaps, by breaking it up, not giving the reader the benefit of some intelligence. Unfortunately, in one recent book, I made the "mistake" of putting in a page range through an unrelated photo, and the author caught this in his review. He thought it was an error, and told me I needed to check each locator in the index. Now, this author was micromanaging the entire project, but it was interesting that he considered it a mistake. Anybody else want to weigh in on this? Joanne -- AfterWords Indexing Services Joanne E. Clendenen email: jbclend@bigfoot.com http://www.flash.net/~jbclend ---------------- "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not any simpler." Einstein ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 06:36:36 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Joanne E. Clendenen" Organization: AfterWords Indexing Services Subject: Re: Continuous discussions with intervening illustrations In response to Christine's problem of relatives/correspondents mentioned throughout a biography, I will say first of all, that I find these sorts of problems fascinating, and I commend Christine for looking at the "big picture" of the number of mentions illustrating the continuity of a relationship. I guess I would let the strings of page numbers stand in this case, just to illustrate that relationship. Perhaps you could leave out some of the most trivial mentions and keep enough to get the point across. Joanne -- AfterWords Indexing Services Joanne E. Clendenen email: jbclend@bigfoot.com http://www.flash.net/~jbclend ---------------- "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not any simpler." Einstein ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 07:43:01 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: chat: Re: Indexing -- Subversive? I think this is the same guy who has been monitoring all my daily activities via a transmitter he installed in my TV remote device. I usually keep the device inside a lead lined bag, but sometimes I have to use it. On such occasions, I counteract his efforts by wearing on my head an aluminum foil refractor device. I have kept a log of his near-daily attempts to control my thoughts via the flashing around my skylights, since before 1947 (he has even followed me to Vermont), but it never occured to me to index those logs. If the CIA is interested, I could certainly do so. He is one of the reasons I feel I cannot attend the Seattle ASI conference. He has even suggested that while most of us believe ASI stands for American Society of Indexers, the FBI has us filed under All Subversive Indexers, and that even indexers who are not members have intensive notes in said file, even digital photographs. I am seriously concerned that by diseminating his article, Nancy has put us all at risk for a sudden and simultaneous hard drive meltdown via an email virus known as the Tsang Froid virus, which originally was predicted by Nostradamus, and by some interpretations, by C.S. Lewis, and is one of the signs of the impending Apocalypse, scheduled to occur on or about May 5, 2000 when the 5 inner planets align. Rachel (d.o.b. 1953) >I just have to share this article that appeared in my Sunday paper. I >wonder if it appeared elsewhere.. > >"A CIA Target Subversively Cataloguing Books on American Soil" >By Daniel C. Tsang >The Sunday Times [aka, Contra Costa Times] >January 25, 1998, F9 > >Because of me, the CIA has had to concede it does spy on Americans. Just >last month, the agency had to remove a denial posted on its Web site that >it doesn't do this. For it kept a file on me throughout the 1980s and '90s >-- despite a law against political spying on Americans. > >..... > >But I am no spy or terrorist. The CIA conceded as much by settling my >lawsuit, paying my lawyers some $46,000 and promising to expunge my file >and never spy on my political activities in the future. > >..... > >The CIA says my dossier was created because of my work with CovertAction >Information Bulletin, now CovertAction Quarterly. I understand the agency's >unhappiness with a magazine that tries to expose its shenanigans, but all I >did was index its magazine. That's not subversive. > >..... > >My cumulative index to the first 12 issues of CAIB came out in 1981. >Beginning that year, my CIA file reveals, the agency sent repeated >inquiries to the Immigration and Nationalization [sic] Service about my >nationality status, describing me as "Hong Kong-born Chinese." ... in the >end, the INS told the CIA it didn't have anything on me. It was right: I am >a U.S. citizen through my mother, who was born in Seattle. > >..... and on goes the article > > >-nancy > >Nancy Mulvany >Voice: 510-524-4195 >Fax: 510-527-4681 >Email: nmulvany@well.com >Books for Indexers ====> http://www.well.com/~nmulvany Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 07:19:17 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Biographies, parents in Christine Shuttleworth asks about long strings of entries regarding a biographee's letters to parents. My approach in one book was to create an entry under the biographee for "letters to parents" (there was also an entry for "letters to friends") and to include under that only letters that were quoted at the length of at least a paragraph. I did not include mention of letters that were not quoted directly because I felt at the time that the reader would expect to find an actual excerpt from the letter. This allowed me to omit entries of the nature, "In a letter to her parents, Dorothy said she missed Kansas." Fortunately for me I ended up with only 7 references even though the book was over 300 pages in length. However, once I had decided on that rule (that the letter had to be quoted at length) I would have included all letters which met the rule even if they were numerous. It would be interesting to me to know later on how you decided to handle this, Christine. Craig Brown ========================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing (314)352-9094 www.i1.net/~lastword ========================================== ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 09:09:03 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Wright Subject: Cats (this is fluffy chat -- pun intended) -Reply One of my best friends has a cat who always lies in the alcove on her desktop where she stores her keyboard when she's not using it, thus placing herself above the keyboard while Karen is typing. If her cat feels neglected, she will occasionally reach out a paw and hit one of the function keys, which Karen says is very disconcerting when she doesn't see it happen! It's bad enough trying to correct your mistakes without trying to figure out what you cat has done! :-) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 09:14:18 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Wright Subject: Re: Continuous discussions with intervening illustrations -Reply content-length: 856 My 2 cents... (probably only worth about 1.5 cents, given that I rarely encounter this kind of problem in legal books) :-) I would go back to the Golden Rule of Indexing: What would the user want? Would a user of this book feel that you had omitted something important if you didn't include the reference? Can you imagine someone using the index to look up a specific letter or reference? If so, I think that sub-subheadings might be in order. It's all a matter of context-- if it is important enough that someone using the book would expect to find it in the index somewhere, I would include it. Again, invoking my other rule of thumb that it is easier to rip entries than to add them, I would go ahead and do it, and if it gets too unwieldy or ridiculous, you always have the option of ripping at a later date! Just an opinion... -- Sharon W. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 09:33:15 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: AllWrite N Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Cats (this is fluffy chat -- pun intended) My cat has her 'eating station' (an old dresser that doubles as spillover desk space) next to my desk. The reason for this is to keep her food away from her 5 canine sisters (2 of whom love to sit in my chair)... As she attempts to make her elevated way from food dish to our bedroom (to recharge her batteries amongst the piles of clothing ;D ...) she leaves me 'love notes' by selecting the keyboard rather than the desk to walk on. While some have been quite original and 'amewsing' I'm afraid I would violate copywrite laws by reprinting them here without her permission. Perhaps when she stops by for lunch... Nancy Noyes All Write ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 09:50:56 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Elaine R. Firestone" Subject: Re: Continuous discussions with intervening illustrations In-Reply-To: <199801280509.AAA08232@calval-2.gsfc.nasa.gov> Janet wrote: >Since you asked ........ in my years of indexing, I've turned into a real >purist. When I come across this type of situation, I do *not* use the page >range, but rather break the page reference into whatever page numbers indicate >where the discussion is. I do not like to take the liberty of implying a 3 >page discussion (ie, pp. 14-16) when the discussion may be one paragraph at >the bottom page 14 that continues onto the top of page 16, with an unrelated >figure or table on page 15. I prefer to be entirely "truthful" about what is >there in the index (no judgment intended here -- just an honest listing of >page locators).' Like Janet, I'm a purist about this subject, although I've never taken any indexing courses (I was just told one day "Elaine, create an index for these five volumes of our tech memo series"). I am very aware of what I've objected to in the past when I've tried to use poorly constructed indexes or indexes that use sweeping page ranges, when it turns out that the discussions are discontinuous, either by being broken up with intervening figures that have no bearing on the text, or by intervening text and or section/heading numbers. Think of it in these terms: Say you're indexing a book on the life and times of a rose (we're talking facetious here y'all). The juicy part about its sex life begins at the bottom of page 6. Then, there are three full page illustrations of rose root-rot and another page of a table listing the different products that can be made from roses (that puts us up to page 10). On page 11, the sex life of the rose continues for one more paragraph at the top of the page. Are you, as an indexer _really_ going to let the reader believe that there are _five_ pages in this book devoted to its sex life? That's not truthful, or even ethical in my mind. Aesthetics aside of what the index looks like, how about the buyer/reader of the book (for whom the index is ultimately written)? Lots of people skim the index of a book to see how widely a subject is covered _before_ they buy the book. (We covered this thread a while back, too.) A person can see this entry of "sex life, 6--11" and think "Oh boy! Five pages devoted to this subject. . . I've _got_ to buy it!" And then imagine the buyer's disappointment when they find out that the sum total of the actual discussion fits into two paragraphs. No thank you! Count me in on the "truthful" side (as Janet so aptly put it). My $0.05. Elaine Elaine R. Firestone, ELS elaine@calval.gsfc.nasa.gov elaine@seawifs.gsfc.nasa.gov ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 09:52:22 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: AllWrite N Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Continuous discussions with intervening illustrations First, let me get in my introduction of myself as a VERY NEWBIE who is working up to the USDA course. However, I have had about 22 years of writing/editing /indexing experience (newsletters and technical documentation) so feel reasonably qualified to offer an opinion. (Thank you for your attention ;D ) From the user's end of things, I would find it frustrating to find a range of pages that included an unrelated photo or illustration, etc. I would (stupidly and doggedly) waste time and energy either trying to figure what the connection was, or cursing out the responsible party for wasting my time as I searched for meaning in the surrounding text pages if I looked up the photo. (Just did that looking up Dorothy Parker's poem about martinis in a book about the history of martinis and found the poem and her name on a page that had no reference to her in the index! But that's another story...) In my own work -- be it schematics, research documentation, or user's manuals -- I tend to be very literal in my locaters. If something is referenced by a locater, it will be found there not around there. Unless, of course, I screw up :( . I would side with your client in calling it a mistake but can fully understand why you did it. We don't all think alike or work alike. Nancy Noyes All Write ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 07:04:23 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Drew Proctor Subject: Re: Winter Web...do I hear bells ringing? In-Reply-To: <199801272119.NAA03325@oneworld.owt.com> Dave, I signed up for one of Thomas Copley's courses a couple years ago. Although I didn't get very far with it, it was my fault not his. The lessons were clear and arrived regularly. If you want more info, let me know; I think one of my co-workers completed this course. Drew Proctor Kennewick, WA dproctor@owt.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:03:15 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: AllWrite N Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: chat: Re: Indexing -- Subversive? Rachel, I think your problems go WAY BEYOND your concerns on mind control through your remote control... Actually, you are overlooking the true source of your problem: naturally wavy hair. All those waves are genetically engineered to provide the best communications possible! You know that transmitters operate on radio frequencies -- SOUND WAVES!!! WAVES TO WAVES!!! It is elementary!!! So straighten your hair (or shave your head?) and lay the blame where it truly belongs: ON YOUR PARENTS! Thinking of you (and your parents), Nancy ;) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:14:40 +0000 Reply-To: connolly@neca.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dan Connolly Subject: Re: Continuous discussions with intervening illustrations Elaine R. Firestone wrote: Are you, as an > indexer _really_ going to let the reader believe that there are _five_ > pages in this book devoted to its sex life? That's not truthful, or even > ethical in my mind. Aesthetics aside of what the index looks like, how > about the buyer/reader of the book (for whom the index is ultimately > written)? Lots of people skim the index of a book to see how widely a > subject is covered _before_ they buy the book. (We covered this thread a > while back, too.) A person can see this entry of "sex life, 6--11" and > think "Oh boy! Five pages devoted to this subject. . . I've _got_ to buy > it!" And then imagine the buyer's disappointment when they find out that > the sum total of the actual discussion fits into two paragraphs. No thank > you! I sense the tide is turning in this argument, and, not being one to miss a trend, would like to join in. I'm an indexer who has yet to index (can that really be?), but I'd like to offer my opinion from the user end of things. Elaine makes an excellent point here (although she seems a little obsessed with her subject). People do make financial decisions based on a quick skimming of a book. Both the Table of Contents and Index can be used for this. This seems to me an important and decisive point. Dan -- ///////////////////////////////////////////// Dan Connolly Our life is frittered away by detail . . . Simplify, simplify. Henry David Thoreau ///////////////////////////////////////////// ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:31:46 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dr DCS Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Cats (this is fluffy chat -- pun intended) Cats are not the only ones who pull stunts like that. My dogs do that too!! DCS The Perfect Page ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:33:06 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Continuous discussions with intervening illustrations In-Reply-To: <199801280511.XAA09596@mixcom.mixcom.com> >The thing that gives me more of a problem is a situation in which something is >discussed again and again, as illustrative of one point and then another, on a >succession of pages, when the discussions are discontinuous. The string of >page locators is disconcerting in the index (to me), and I find it more >difficult to maintain my "purist" position and list all page locators. I >often wonder if the publishers I work for change these strings of locators to >a range after I submit the index. Since I don't often see the published >volumes on many of my books, I don't know. OTOH, I haven't been criticized >for the practice of listing the string of locators or told not to do it. >However, I must admit it does look inelegant (to me), although technically >correct. Do any of you wish to add your comments here? My habit has been to list the pages separately, choosing accuracy over elegance. (So of course I also would not go the page-range route in the other example of interrupted discussion.) However, I'm currently working on a book for a new client, and their indexing instructions say to change such strings to a page range. I'm doing just that, but I still don't like it. The only alternative I can think of would be to introduce a lot of (slightly different) sub-entries, so as to keep the individual locators. Which would be totally ad hoc and not what the client wants. Except for this client, though, I will continue to treat discrete bits of discussion as discrete. Use your discretion. ;-) Cheers, Carol ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:19:40 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Kennedy Subject: Re: Continuous discussions with intervening illustrations In-Reply-To: <199801280129.TAA18025@mail.minn.net> At 08:24 PM 1/27/98 EST, Therese Shere wrote: >I think it's not >an unusual situation to run into. . . . When I >first ran into this question with a practice index, I looked in both Nancy >Mulvany's and Wellisch's books and could find nothing to the point. That being >the case, is there any accepted wisdom on this? Some of you seemed to imply >that there was--that using a page range *isn't* appropriate if other material >intervenes in a continuous discussion. But my gut feeling about it is that >Kara and Lynn are right--a page range serves the reader better, just makes >more sense, as well as being less cluttered in print. I have to admit that I've gone both ways with this. (I'm bi-indexual?) I've agonized over it, too. But in some books, it just seemed "right" to do it one way, and in some, the other. I can't pin it down, but some factors are type of book, intended audience, and general range of pages in the index. On the last factor, for example, if I would have to give the range 111-18 to cover the material spanning the pictures, are there any similar ranges in the index? Or is it all one- and two-page entries? I know this is very "seat of the pants," but that's the way I do it. Best wishes, Carol Kennedy colfaxgp@minn.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:58:47 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Kennedy Subject: Re: Continuous discussions with intervening illustrations In-Reply-To: <199801281001.EAA15605@mail.minn.net> At 04:59 AM 1/28/98 -0500, Christine wrote: >I'm >indexing a biography. The subject's parents are >mentioned repeatedly throughout the text, but >most often only in passing, in the context of >brief visits paid to them, or letters written >to them. This results in long strings of page >numbers in their entries (I can't combine their >two entries into one, as sometimes they are >mentioned individually, most often as a couple.) >Even a subheading, "X's letters to", will again >consist of a long string. I've faced similar situations. Biographies seem to be particularly sticky on this: people mentioned so often in passing that the total of mentions communicates something significant. Are X's letters a subject in themselves? If so, you could use a "See also" under the parents' listings. Or how about an entry referring to X's relationship with parents, where you could put letters, visits, and any more substantive discussion? If you come up with a solution, let us know! Best wishes, Carol Kennedy colfaxgp@minn.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:41:40 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Noeline Bridge Subject: Re: Continuous discussion with intervening... This situation is where the use of the old "passim," meaning "here and there," fitted admirably. I rarely use passim, because a) there's usually no need to, and b) it's generally frowned upon as smacking of laziness, lacking in intellectual rigor, incomprehensible to users, etc. But the previous messages on this topic show indexers meticulously analyzing the continuity or discontinuity of a given topic (no laziness here), and finding that the other options, citing all the individual page numbers or rolling them into a span, are both unsatisfactory in accurately informing the user about how the information is presented. I like the proper use of "passim" both as an indexer and a user. When I see it in an index I respect, I know that I'll find the topic discussed here and there over the accompanying span of pages--quite different from consulting a page range, or finding lots of undifferentiated locators. In the latter case, when these locators refer to pages near one another, I have to put together for myself the information the word "passim" gives immediately. Noeline Bridge BRIDGEWORK nbridge@planet.eon.net 10979 123 Street Edmonton, AB T5M 0E1 Canada phone 403-452-8325 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:49:10 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Wilkerson Subject: Marketing - TCOf - Membership Rates Do not hit reply without changing the E-mail address To: Bookindexr@aol.com I am hoping to get a temporary web sit up in the next day or so. I am going to do it myself...I have had several write to tell me they are interested in the consortium. It is enough to encourage me but not enough to meet the setup expenses for the permanent web site. I realize a lot of people may be leary as to how it will work out. If it will be worth the money they invest. There is no way of knowing at this stage. For that reason I think I am going to slow down and go the least expensive way and gradually add the fancy gadgets. It just don't seem logical to charge a hand full of people $200 - $300 on a gamble. So for now we will start out with the bare necessities and work our way up. 1. I will design the web site myself for now. I know it won't be nowhere near as nice as Dwight's will be but it will be functional and serve the purpose. 2. Rather than getting a seperate internet service I will just use my own. I didn't want to use mine because in order to use the 2 mg of web space alotted for each screen name (5) I have to use the person's screen name in the URL. I don't think it would look too professional to have TJ14M as part of the URL address (my son's screen name)...lol. But my 2 mgs that comes with my screen name may be enough until I start adding the database and bulletin board...etc. However, I think I may have to change my screen name to Freelancer or TCOF to represent the consortium and not just indexers. That will be a hassel....:( I will notify the list of my new E-mail address. I won't change it until the temporary web page and chat room is ready to be uploaded. 3. I feel I really need to register a domain, however. That way I can advertise the site without having to notify publisher later of the change when I get the permanent site set up. 4. We will start out using the chat room that is free and just live with ParaChat's ads. However I have found out that they will rent the chat room half off to organizations that are non-profit. By the time we are ready to convert it over to soliciting our own ads rather than Parachat's we would have found out if we can apply for non-profit status. 5. We won't beable to have the bulletin board right off but any comments or suggestions can be E-mailed to me.I felt posting them public with ignite more discussions on suggestions. Having the bulletin board offered more services to the membership. Any member could post announcements. I didn't want to use the board for advertising products or services of a business (that would be taking away our bread and butter because I still plan to solicite advertising directly on the web site to generate the extra money needed to make the consortium self funded but I don't see why it couldn't be used to posting recipes, decoration ideas and such personal ads such as: Hey.. I have a used laptop for sale $500.00 like new. Orginal cost $2000.00 2 years ago. For more info E-mail Bookindex@aol.com. This would be an additional service and convenience for the member selling the item and the members who may need a laptop. There is no way of knowing if we will be able to get the ads needed for self funding so for this first year I think it best that we have monthly and yearly dues in addition to the lifetime membership dues. I have set the rates as follows until we see how it is going to go and to give everyone the opportunity to try it out to fit their budget To become a member your monthly dues will be $10, yearly dues $60 and for those rolling in dough and feel that this venture is worth the risk a life time membership of $200 (life time of either the member or the consortium). No refunds will be made should you decide you no longer need or want to be a member. For those taking out ads in the AdPads you will be given free membership until one month after the AdPads are shipped out. I will be sending coversheets along with the pads announcing the web site. The AdPad offer is also opened to those that offer services other than indexing. If you feel the contact person for indexing would handle your service also, you are welcomed to take out an ad. E-mail me for details. I feel it is worth every minute of my energy and time to do this not only for myself but for everyone else. It is hard to network with people you don't know and that live so far away. This consortium will help to unitea it's members and better enable them to support each other's careers and endeavors. Those of us that have been active in the chats and marketing the AdPads have already met and bonded a friendship that couldn't have been done any other way. I look forward to one day meeting them in person. E-mail me if you are interested in becoming a member or have suggestions. All future notifications will be posted to the web site, which will be announced once it is completed. Do not hit reply without changing the E-mail address To: Bookindexr@aol.com Susan Wilkerson Bookindexr@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:04:04 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: STortora Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Cats (this is fluffy chat -- pun intended) My cat also has a fascination with my computer and she likes to rub herself on the monitor and of course her tail ends up in my face. When I put her on the floor she looks at me with a very put out look. Sue ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:36:51 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: Cats (this is fluffy chat -- pun intended) In-Reply-To: Bob likes to warm up on the monitor. I had a basket there for her but she spent so much time there that she actually ended up getting very sick (the vet says it's coincidence, but I think she cooked herself). She really almost died. I took the basket away. And Emma Peel knows to sit on my lap with her chin between my hands as I type, for a free massage. And all 7 know very well not to step on the keyboard and will go to great lengths to avoid doing so. If a paw slips and touches the keyboard, they tend to shake the offending foot, thus shaking off contact with the keyboard. I have seen them do this even when I'm not at the computer. RR Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:18:03 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SCTopping Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Cats (this is fluffy chat -- pun intended) -Reply My personal assistant, Morganna, is scrupulous about keeping my work schedule. If I don't turn off the computer promptly at 6:00 p.m. (her dinnertime), she stretches up and taps me imperiously on the arm, mewing softly. It always sounds like the Meow-Mix song..... Furriedly, Sandy ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:25:12 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rebecca Carr Subject: Thomas Copley's workshops Thomas Copley's workshops are quite good IMO. I had no problems receiving the material or corresponding with him. It was a good deal of information for not much money. Becky ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:52:21 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Robin Hilp Subject: Re: Spring Meeting, Pacific NW Chapter > FEE: $20 ASI members; $25 non-ASI members. Includes a delicious buffet > lunch. Louise, does the buffet lunch include lowcarb selections? I'm on a doctor-supervised diet and can't have fruits, grains, starches, or sugar. That basically leaves me with high-fiber green veggies and plain or herbed meats (no thick sauces or soups). So ... should I make other arrangements for lunch? and (can't hurt to ask :-) ) if I have to bring a bag lunch instead of getting a buffet plate, does it make a difference in the price? I'll be attending as a non-ASI member. Thank you!! == RolyBear, icq-1863181 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:06:11 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Robin Hilp Subject: Re: Cats (this is fluffy chat -- pun intended) > I'm sure those of you who have cats are familiar with this behavior: YES!!!!! >affronted by the > beeping which ensued when he attempted to lie full length on the keyboard, > and left in huff, trying unsuccessfully to pretend that he hadn't been > there at all! ROTFL! == RolyBear, icq-1863181 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com